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1 jamesfirecat  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:03:35pm

Now imagine doing this for a couple hours....

2 b_sharp  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:03:42pm

You're just trying to make me cry, aren't you?

3 Kragar  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:04:40pm

Can we have Mitt in a kennel and driven across country on the roof of a car just so he can show us how its no big deal?

4 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:04:45pm

To be fair Mitt did this when he was a boy of 40 plus. Didn't Romney laugh while telling this story back in 2007-08?

5 Charles Johnson  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:04:51pm

re: #1 jamesfirecat

Now imagine doing this for a couple hours...

More than a couple of hours. This was a 12 hour trip from Boston to Canada.

6 Mocking Jay  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:05:33pm

re: #1 jamesfirecat

Now imagine doing this for a couple hours...

Twelve.

Try twelve...

7 b_sharp  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:06:13pm

re: #3 Kragar

Can we have Mitt in a kennel and driven across country on the roof of a car just so he can show us how its no big deal?

As long as we can hose him off.

8 Ming  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:06:13pm

Romney family values.

9 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:06:30pm

re: #6 Oblivious Troll

Twelve.

Try twelve...

That poor dog. Anyhow, we always had the dog in the back when I was a kid.

10 jamesfirecat  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:07:18pm

re: #5 Charles Johnson

More than a couple of hours. This was a 12 hour trip from Boston to Canada.

Wow, I wanted to say "6" but I was afraid that would be turn out to be an over estimation....

Guess things really are always worse than you expect them to be....

11 palomino  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:07:30pm

re: #4 HappyWarrior

To be fair Mitt did this when he was a boy of 40 plus. Didn't Romney laugh while telling this story back in 2007-08?

Yeah, he did laugh, because if you don't give a shit about animals, it's actually kinda funny...at least to a guy like Romney. This is how he shows he's one of the common folks--he drove a station wagon and hosed down diarrhea. If he wins, I pity the First Dog.

12 jaunte  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:07:38pm

re: #6 Oblivious Troll

Twelve.

Try twelve...

How many of the twelve are we wet and chilled to the bone?

13 b_sharp  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:08:43pm

re: #12 jaunte

How many of the twelve are we wet and chilled to the bone?

10 seconds is too long.

14 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:08:57pm

re: #6 Oblivious Troll

Twelve.

Try twelve...

Then imagine getting sick halfway through, shitting all over yourself, having Mitt Romney hose you down and then getting put back in the container for the rest of the ride wet.

15 jaunte  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:09:08pm

That doesn't look like an airtight (coughbullshit) travel kennel like the one Mitt said they used.

16 Mocking Jay  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:09:39pm

re: #14 goddamnedfrank

Then imagine getting sick halfway through, shitting all over yourself, having Mitt Romney hose you down and then getting put back in the container for the rest of the ride wet.

Seems like one hell of a wind chill.

17 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:10:21pm

re: #11 palomino

Yeah, he did laugh, because if you don't give a shit about animals, it's actually kinda funny...at least to a guy like Romney. This is how he shows he's one of the common folks--he drove a station wagon and hosed down diarrhea. If he wins, I pity the First Dog.

He's such a prick.

18 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:10:55pm

The thing to learn about Mitt here is an uncaring nature for the plight of those under his control. Things terribly important happen in a Presidents term. How much uncaring can we afford?

19 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:11:57pm
20 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:12:18pm

re: #19 Killgore Trout

[Embedded content]

Dude...............

21 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:12:35pm

re: #16 Oblivious Troll

Seems like one hell of a wind chill.

And I don't care if they patted him down with towels, an Irish Setter's coat takes hours to fully dry out.

22 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:13:34pm

re: #18 Daniel Ballard

The thing to learn about Mitt here is an uncaring nature for the plight of those under his control. Things terribly important happen in a Presidents term. How much uncaring can we afford?

Uncaring may be better. It allows one to act without emotion, focusing on results not feelings.

/playing devil's advocate here

23 Achilles Tang  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:14:05pm

I wish this issue would go away and we stick to matters that are verifiable, and there are plenty of those.

My understanding is that the "kennel" was shielded from wind and I'm prepared to accept that without evidence to the contrary. For all I know the dog had diarrhea before they left, and nobody can say different.

24 b_sharp  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:14:22pm

re: #21 goddamnedfrank

And I don't care if they patted him down with towels, an Irish Setter's coat takes hours to fully dry out.

It takes hours to dry using a hot air drier.

25 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:14:39pm

re: #20 HappyWarrior

Dude...

Bow Wow Wow - I Want Candy

26 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:15:21pm

re: #25 Killgore Trout

Bow Wow Wow - I Want Candy

[Embedded content]

Ha, fair enough.

27 jamesfirecat  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:17:16pm

re: #22 Dark_Falcon

Uncaring may be better. It allows one to act without emotion, focusing on results not feelings.

/playing devil's advocate here

Why is wet, frightened incontinent dog on the roof of your car a desirable result?

28 Charles Johnson  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:18:17pm

If Mitt Romney came out and said something like, "Boy, did I ever make a mistake. I learned an important lesson about caring, and I'll never do anything like that again," I'd be praising him tonight.

Instead, he's trying to claim, through his wife, that the dog actually enjoyed this trip.

29 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:18:21pm

re: #27 jamesfirecat

Why is wet, frightened incontinent dog on the roof of your car a desirable result?

Don't ask me, I don't even know what this meme is or how it got started.

30 erik_t  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:19:11pm

re: #23 Flame Fin Tomini Tang

I wish this issue would go away and we stick to matters that are verifiable, and there are plenty of those.

My understanding is that the "kennel" was shielded from wind and I'm prepared to accept that without evidence to the contrary. For all I know the dog had diarrhea before they left, and nobody can say different.

For that matter, it doesn't tell us anything that we don't already know -- sympathizing with the plight of the less fortunate is not exactly Romneybot's strong suit.

31 jaunte  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:20:00pm

Sort of an extreme way to demonstrate you don't want dog hair messing up the interior of your car.

32 palomino  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:20:05pm

re: #19 Killgore Trout

I think this is the "who let the dogs out" video you were searching for.

33 jamesfirecat  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:21:40pm

re: #29 Dark_Falcon

Don't ask me, I don't even know what this meme is or how it got started.

The "meme" is that Mitt Romney strapped a dog/ the dog's kennel to the roof of his car for a 12 hour drive. When the dog shits itself in terror halfway through Romney's response is to pull into a gas station spray down the dog/kennel with a hose then put it right back up there for the rest of the ride.

And it got started when Romney admitted the story to the press trying to use it as an example of what a decisive decission maker he is...

34 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:21:49pm

re: #28 Charles Johnson

If Mitt Romney came out and said something like, "Boy, did I ever make a mistake. I learned an important lesson about caring, and I'll never do anything like that again," I'd be praising him tonight.

Instead, he's trying to claim, through his wife, that the dog actually enjoyed this trip.

Well he really has worked hard to create this image of himself as a guy who only cares about himself. You're exactly right, Charles. If he had used this story as a lesson, I highly doubt many people would criticize him for it. Certainly some would but it would make him look like he had an ounce of humanity in him and I guess Mitt thinks showing that means he's showing weakness. It's kind of sad really.

35 b_sharp  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:22:17pm

re: #31 jaunte

Sort of an extreme way to demonstrate you don't want dog hair messing up the interior of your car.

That's why pet hair vacuum cleaners were invented.

36 palomino  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:23:02pm

re: #22 Dark_Falcon

Uncaring may be better. It allows one to act without emotion, focusing on results not feelings.

/playing devil's advocate here

Yes, what we need is a president who just doesn't give a damn about anybody. Brilliant idea!

37 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:23:26pm

re: #23 Flame Fin Tomini Tang

My understanding is that the "kennel" was shielded from wind and I'm prepared to accept that without evidence to the contrary. For all I know the dog had diarrhea before they left, and nobody can say different.

It seems axiomatic that if the crate wasn't liquid shit spill proofed then it was definitely capable of letting the wind in. Also, only an asshole would put any dog, especially a sick on on the roof of their car.

38 palomino  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:25:34pm

re: #22 Dark_Falcon

Uncaring may be better. It allows one to act without emotion, focusing on results not feelings.

/playing devil's advocate here

We had that already. It was called the Nixon administration. Ultimately not a huge success.

39 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:26:23pm

I need to try this with my cat, on the Veterans Expressway (toll road) I can easily hit 90 mph in some sections for miles without any fear of a ticket. Hmm...then again I'm not all that fond of getting stitches and removing him from his travel crate afterwords would likely involve gaining some...

//

40 Mocking Jay  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:27:07pm

re: #28 Charles Johnson

If Mitt Romney came out and said something like, "Boy, did I ever make a mistake. I learned an important lesson about caring, and I'll never do anything like that again," I'd be praising him tonight.

Instead, he's trying to claim, through his wife, that the dog actually enjoyed this trip.

Heh. Actually...

Romney, when asked whether he would repeat his actions during the family vacation, said he wouldn’t, “certainly not with the attention it’s received.”

What he's learned is that it provides him with terrible political optics, so he would not do that again. You know, he's running for office for Pete's sake... That's what he learned.

41 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:27:26pm

Though I am sure most of you already saw this, the Swedish Government is in its 2nd huge scandal of the year:

Swedish culture minister Lena Adelsohn Liljeroth is urged to resign after being photographed at Moderna Museet in Stockholm cutting a slice from a cake in the shape of the naked torso of an African tribal woman filled with blood-red sponge.

DF, I have nothing. You say something.

42 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:28:38pm
43 palomino  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:28:43pm

re: #40 Oblivious Troll

Heh. Actually...

What he's learned is that it provides him with terrible political optics, so he would not do that again. You know, he's running for office for Pete's sake... That's what he learned.

Exactly, he learned the same "lesson" when it comes to hiring illegal immigrants to do your gardening. What a robot.

44 Targetpractice  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:29:32pm

re: #40 Oblivious Troll

Heh. Actually...

What he's learned is that it provides him with terrible political optics, so he would not do that again. You know, he's running for office for Pete's sake... That's what he learned.

Would he refuse to repeat the incident because it was inhumane and deplorable?

Nah, he'd refuse because doing it once made him look bad. Yegods.

45 jaunte  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:29:55pm

Romney has already come under considerable fire from animal rights groups over the Seamus incident. ''They're not happy that my dog loves fresh air,'' Romney snapped back.

OP-ED COLUMNIST; Haunted By Seamus

46 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:29:57pm

This was the first scandal, and forced the Defense Minister to resign.

On March 6, 2012 Tolgfors received negative attention in the way he dealt with the issue concerning the so-called Project Simoom. Later the same day Tolgfors was registered by Gustav Fridolin to Constitution Committee on plans for a weapons factory in Saudi Arabia.

On March 29, 2012 Tolgfors resigned due of his way to treat this.

This is project Simoom:

Project Simoom is the name of a controversial joint secret project involving Swedish government agency Swedish Defence Research Agency (Totalförsvarets forskningsinstitut or FOI) and Saudi Arabia to create an advanced weapons factory in Saudi Arabia. Documents and details about the project was revealed to the public on 7 March 2012 by Swedish public radio broadcaster Sveriges Radio (SR). The project has been heavily criticized for constituting a possible breach of Swedish arms trade laws, and for its secretive nature. The actions of the Swedish Defence Research Agency and the Swedish government in connection with Project Simoom have also received criticism.

47 palomino  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:30:32pm

re: #42 Killgore Trout

Tastes like dog
Image: xlarge_mittromneyfried_ap.jpg

I'm guessing Romney tastes like chicken...the whitest part of the chicken.

48 erik_t  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:30:52pm

re: #43 palomino

Exactly, he learned the same "lesson" when it comes to hiring illegal immigrants to do your gardening. What a robot.

It bears repeating: for someone who panders so shamelessly, plays political odds so transparently, and has been practicing for a general election since some voters were in elementary school, he's really bad at it. Like, really really bad.

49 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:31:12pm

re: #43 palomino

Exactly, he learned the same "lesson" when it comes to hiring illegal immigrants to do your gardening. What a robot.

Maybe he's got some autism in him. One of the symptoms is lacking empathy with other people. Note I am not saying that autism= bad, shit as many of you know I have Asperger's Syndrome myself but there's just something different about Mitt. And by the way, I think even Nixon had more humanity than Mitt shows. The Checkers speech showed a human side and when you read his memoirs and he talks about how hard it him to lose two brothers from TB. Not defending his paranoia but I see Nixon's humanity more than I do Romney's.

50 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:32:02pm

re: #45 jaunte

Romney has already come under considerable fire from animal rights groups over the Seamus incident. ''They're not happy that my dog loves fresh air,'' Romney snapped back.

OP-ED COLUMNIST; Haunted By Seamus

What a tool.

51 Mocking Jay  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:32:15pm

re: #48 erik_t

It bears repeating: for someone who panders so shamelessly, plays political odds so transparently, and has been practicing for a general election since some voters were in elementary school, he's really bad at it. Like, really really bad.

Uh huh. He's as bad at this game as Bill Clinton was good.

52 Olsonist  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:32:32pm

I'm in an argument about Breivik and Geller. Can some kind Lizard point me to some relevant LGF articles linking the two? I'm bandwidth challenged just now.

53 palomino  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:33:09pm

re: #49 HappyWarrior

Maybe he's got some autism in him. One of the symptoms is lacking empathy with other people. Note I am not saying that autism= bad, shit as many of you know I have Asperger's Syndrome myself but there's just something different about Mitt. And by the way, I think even Nixon had more humanity than Mitt shows. The Checkers speech showed a human side and when you read his memoirs and he talks about how hard it him to lose two brothers from TB. Not defending his paranoia but I see Nixon's humanity more than I do Romney's.

Definitely, and I agree fully with the last part. No one ever mistook Nixon for an automaton or a laboratory creation.

54 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:33:15pm

re: #51 Oblivious Troll

Uh huh. He's as bad at this game as Bill Clinton was good.

Yes,
Bill: My fellow Americans, I feel your pain
Romney: My fellow Americans I've never felt pain before and you know what you shouldn't either.

55 jaunte  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:33:56pm

re: #50 HappyWarrior

The dog obviously volunteered to be up there; it's just unfair to blame Mitt!

56 Achilles Tang  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:33:58pm

I agree that Romney, who is responsible for us knowing of this event, has mangled the response; but I also think that it means nothing to those who support him (same mindset) so it amounts only to fun for his opponents, us, and by making it front and center makes it seem that this is all we got.

He has mangled many other responses, like Nugent, that can have a much more real effect.

57 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:34:41pm

re: #38 palomino

We had that already. It was called the Nixon administration. Ultimately not a huge success.

Though it would have been if Nixon had just hung the Watergate 'plumbers' out to dry instead.

And Nixon wasn't without emotion, he just did not know how to relate to most people. Interestingly, NBC's Brian Williams recently dug up the fact that one case where Nixon did relate easily was in 1970, when a PR stunt on the importance of saving fuel lead him to be the last president to fly on a commercial airliner on a DC to Cali. flight.

58 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:34:58pm

re: #52 Olsonist

I would say to go back in the archives, and look at the articles from that time period. Start with 7/22, and go a week or 2 forward.

59 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:35:20pm

re: #53 palomino

Definitely, and I agree fully with the last part. No one ever mistook Nixon for an automaton or a laboratory creation.

Shakespeare himself couldn't have written a better tragedy.

60 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:35:40pm

re: #23 Flame Fin Tomini Tang

I wish this issue would go away and we stick to matters that are verifiable, and there are plenty of those.

My understanding is that the "kennel" was shielded from wind and I'm prepared to accept that without evidence to the contrary. For all I know the dog had diarrhea before they left, and nobody can say different.

Yeah, tell it to Gail Collins.

61 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:36:23pm

re: #41 ProGunLiberal

Though I am sure most of you already saw this, the Swedish Government is in its 2nd huge scandal of the year:

DF, I have nothing. You say something.

Silly, stupid? I ain't got much else.

62 jaunte  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:36:50pm
63 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:36:50pm

re: #33 jamesfirecat

The "meme" is that Mitt Romney strapped a dog/ the dog's kennel to the roof of his car for a 12 hour drive. When the dog shits itself in terror halfway through Romney's response is to pull into a gas station spray down the dog/kennel with a hose then put it right back up there for the rest of the ride.

And it got started when Romney admitted the story to the press trying to use it as an example of what a decisive decission maker he is...

Which baffles me, because even if you don't think what he did was wrong, I don't know how 'decisive' you have to be to hose shit off your car. This isn't exactly a great moment in problem solving.

64 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:36:59pm

re: #57 Dark_Falcon

Or if Nixon hadn't been paranoid in the first place. He was going to do okay at the election, why jeopardize it with a blatantly illegal action.

I do feel sympathy for him though. He likely had some disorder, considering how paranoid he was.

65 erik_t  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:37:17pm

re: #54 HappyWarrior

Yes,
Bill: My fellow Americans, I feel your pain
Romney: My fellow Americans I've never felt pain before and you know what you shouldn't either.

Meat-organisms who are exceptionally American and are just the right height, my pain subprocessor may have operated with slightly different settings than yours, but rest assured it has regularly operated at peak capacity, just as yours.

66 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:39:08pm

re: #61 Dark_Falcon

Let me send you a link with a picture. Your jaw will fall off.

The offensiveness.

67 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:39:26pm

re: #49 HappyWarrior

Maybe he's got some autism in him. One of the symptoms is lacking empathy with other people. Note I am not saying that autism= bad, shit as many of you know I have Asperger's Syndrome myself but there's just something different about Mitt.

Test for Psychopathy. Mitt hits some of the early traits hard.

1 Glib and Superficial Charm
2 Grandiose Self-Worth
4 Pathological Lying
6 Lack of Remorse or Guilt
7 Shallow Affect
8 Callousness and Lack of Empathy

However I don't think he's a psychopath because he scores zeros on the second half of the test.

68 Targetpractice  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:40:24pm

re: #54 HappyWarrior

Yes,
Bill: My fellow Americans, I feel your pain
Romney: My fellow Americans I've never felt pain before and you know what you shouldn't either.

Romney: Pain.exe not found. Empathy.exe not found. Please insert Windows CD into drive and press any key.

69 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:40:40pm

re: #63 SanFranciscoZionist

Which baffles me, because even if you don't think what he did was wrong, I don't know how 'decisive' you have to be to hose shit off your car. This isn't exactly a great moment in problem solving.

It's sort of the opposite of problem solving.

Problem: the dog strapped to the car roof shit itself in terror.

?Solution?: hose down the dog and cage, keep going with the dog still in the cage, able to again shit itself in terror.

70 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:41:36pm

I'm not watching the video.

71 Achilles Tang  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:41:55pm

re: #49 HappyWarrior

Maybe he's got some autism in him. One of the symptoms is lacking empathy with other people. Note I am not saying that autism= bad, shit as many of you know I have Asperger's Syndrome myself but there's just something different about Mitt. And by the way, I think even Nixon had more humanity than Mitt shows. The Checkers speech showed a human side and when you read his memoirs and he talks about how hard it him to lose two brothers from TB. Not defending his paranoia but I see Nixon's humanity more than I do Romney's.

I think the word you want is, clinically speaking, psychopath.

Crazy and frightening - and real, in about 4 percent of the population....

72 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:43:12pm

re: #71 Flame Fin Tomini Tang

I think the word you want is, clinically speaking, psychopath.

Crazy and frightening - and real, in about 4 percent of the population...

What is the difference betwen a psychopath and a sociopath?

73 Mocking Jay  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:43:22pm

re: #70 ggt

I'm not watching the video.

Would it help if I told you the dog was fake?

74 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:43:37pm

re: #73 Oblivious Troll

Would it help if I told you the dog was fake?

NO

75 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:43:55pm

re: #49 HappyWarrior

I could believe that today, Nixon would be diagnosed with Autism.

76 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:44:00pm

re: #71 Flame Fin Tomini Tang

I think the word you want is, clinically speaking, psychopath.

Crazy and frightening - and real, in about 4 percent of the population...

Psycho? Man I don't want to armchair diagnose him but there's just something off about the guy. I mean it's not his party or ideology since I could see likable things about Bush, McCain, Huckabee, and even Santorum at least when I saw him with his little girl. I almost feel kind of bad for Mitt for not being able to show anything resembling humanity.

77 EdDantes  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:44:31pm

Dogs don't like to be in a kennel on the freeway on top of a car. Trust me. I didn't like it is a child.

78 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:44:54pm

re: #76 HappyWarrior

Psycho? Man I don't want to armchair diagnose him but there's just something off about the guy. I mean it's not his party or ideology since I could see likable things about Bush, McCain, Huckabee, and even Santorum at least when I saw him with his little girl. I almost feel kind of bad for Mitt for not being able to show anything resembling humanity.

OCD to the extreme, which is a form of Anxiety disorder. This can also include Paranoia.

Untreated it can be horrible to the individual and those around them.

Combine it with superior intellectual abilities and a religious upbringing that stresses personal responsibility and you get a person with a LOT OF GUILT.

79 Mocking Jay  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:45:12pm

re: #76 HappyWarrior

Psycho? Man I don't want to armchair diagnose him but there's just something off about the guy. I mean it's not his party or ideology since I could see likable things about Bush, McCain, Huckabee, and even Santorum at least when I saw him with his little girl. I almost feel kind of bad for Mitt for not being able to show anything resembling humanity.

Even his father seemed more likable from what I've seen of the man.

80 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:45:12pm

re: #75 ProGunLiberal

I could believe that today, Nixon would be diagnosed with Autism.

I have heard some say he may have Asperger's. I dunno. I doubt it but that's because I have this conception of people with Asperger's as being terrible public speakers but I use myself always as the measuring stick and you know as I do that Asperger's impacts each individual differently.

81 Achilles Tang  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:45:55pm

re: #72 ggt

What is the difference betwen a psychopath and a sociopath?

I believe sociopath is one unable to communicate socially, whereas psychopaths are very good at it. Both may have the same underlying "don't give a shit" attitude however.

82 palomino  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:45:57pm

re: #57 Dark_Falcon

Though it would have been if Nixon had just hung the Watergate 'plumbers' out to dry instead.

And Nixon wasn't without emotion, he just did not know how to relate to most people. Interestingly, NBC's Brian Williams recently dug up the fact that one case where Nixon did relate easily was in 1970, when a PR stunt on the importance of saving fuel lead him to be the last president to fly on a commercial airliner on a DC to Cali. flight.

It's pretty bad when we're comparing a guy negatively to Nixon, and not on brain power or leadership skills, but on human emotions like empathy.

83 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:46:45pm

re: #72 ggt

What is the difference betwen a psychopath and a sociopath?

The difference is that sociopaths are indifferent to the suffering they cause, whereas psychopaths actively enjoy the suffering them inflict. So it might be possible to say Mitt Romney acts in a sociopathic manner at times (though to be fair so do I), but unlike a psychopath he does not enjoy hurting people.

84 McSpiff  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:47:09pm

re: #76 HappyWarrior

Psycho? Man I don't want to armchair diagnose him but there's just something off about the guy. I mean it's not his party or ideology since I could see likable things about Bush, McCain, Huckabee, and even Santorum at least when I saw him with his little girl. I almost feel kind of bad for Mitt for not being able to show anything resembling humanity.

Works for Steven Harper here in Canada...

85 jaunte  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:47:20pm

First Baptist Dallas pastor Robert Jeffress -- who last year called Mormonism a "cult" -- has apparently set aside his concerns to back Mitt Romney.
[Link: trailblazersblog.dallasnews.com...]

86 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:47:26pm

re: #72 ggt

What is the difference betwen a psychopath and a sociopath?

IIRC, nothing. Psychopathy is equivalent to sociopathy, and both are now seen as a subset of behaviors of antisocial personality disorder.

Nixon was definitely a Cluster A.

Antisocial is Cluster B.

I don't see Mitt as having the symptoms, though.

87 freetoken  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:47:59pm

re: #76 HappyWarrior

I mean it's not his party or ideology since I could see likable things about Bush, McCain, Huckabee, and even Santorum at least when I saw him with his little girl. I almost feel kind of bad for Mitt for not being able to show anything resembling humanity.

Yeah, he's too cool. Bush - I could see doing a bbq with him. McCain - probably a decent conversation, likewise with Huckabee. Santorum - well, I suppose I could stop by on Christmas and find some good cookies to snack on for an hour or so.

But the Romney's are so distant from that with which I can connect, that I can't see (projection) many people motivated to turn out and vote.

88 Achilles Tang  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:49:17pm

re: #83 Dark_Falcon

The difference is that sociopaths are indifferent to the suffering they cause, whereas psychopaths actively enjoy the suffering them inflict. So it might be possible to say Mitt Romney acts in a sociopathic manner at times (though to be fair so do I), but unlike a psychopath he does not enjoy hurting people.

I'm not sure that psychopaths, except in the movies, enjoy inflicting suffering for its own sake. What they enjoy is being able to gain what they want, without suffering a conscience.

89 jaunte  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:50:09pm
90 prairiefire  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:51:08pm

re: #89 jaunte

[Embedded content]

I can't believe he copped to it.

91 jaunte  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:51:49pm

re: #90 prairiefire

He's thrown it all away now.

92 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:52:01pm

re: #72 ggt

What is the difference betwen a psychopath and a sociopath?

It has a lot to do with the background of the person doing the profiling, kind of an ontological Rorschach test. The best current view I've heard explained by an expert is that psychopaths are born, sociopaths are made. The difference seems kind of like bullshit though because environment obviously plays a role in both, since many elements of the psychopath test rely on personal history and conversely sociopathy is often related to certain innate characteristics like extremely low and high intelligence.

93 Mocking Jay  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:52:21pm

Why (Some) Psychopaths Make Great CEOs

There are absolutes in psychopathy and the main absolute is a literal absence of empathy. It’s just not there. In higher-scoring psychopaths, what grows in the vacant field where that empathy should be is a joy in manipulating people, a lack of remorse, a lack of guilt. If you’ve got a little bit of empathy, you’re kind of not a psychopath.

(Not diagnosing Mitt, mind you.)

94 prairiefire  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:53:27pm

re: #87 freetoken

Yeah, he's too cool. Bush - I could see doing a bbq with him. McCain - probably a decent conversation, likewise with Huckabee. Santorum - well, I suppose I could stop by on Christmas and find some good cookies to snack on for an hour or so.

But the Romney's are so distant from that with which I can connect, that I can't see (projection) many people motivated to turn out and vote.

Yeah, but you are a guy. These patriarchal types would not give my nerdy liberal type gal the time of day. Well, maybe the time of day, but they would not ask me to the bbq.

95 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:53:53pm

re: #93 Oblivious Troll

Why (Some) Psychopaths Make Great CEOs

(Not diagnosing Mitt, mind you.)

It's important not to try to diagnose from a distance, true. Barry Goldwater was wronged in that way in 1964.

96 jaunte  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:53:53pm

Mitt seems a lot like some of the wealthy people I knew when growing up. Not getting dog hair in the car, or not smelling the dog, would be supremely important. The dog's comfort, not important at all.

97 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:54:09pm

re: #87 freetoken

Yeah, he's too cool. Bush - I could see doing a bbq with him. McCain - probably a decent conversation, likewise with Huckabee. Santorum - well, I suppose I could stop by on Christmas and find some good cookies to snack on for an hour or so.

But the Romney's are so distant from that with which I can connect, that I can't see (projection) many people motivated to turn out and vote.

He just never really shows a human side to him and when he does, he just comes off more out of touch. It's certainly not his wealth. Although I am not wealthy, I could relate with a family like the Kennedies because they had this image of this warm and connected family. My extended family reminds me of that.

98 palomino  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:54:51pm

re: #87 freetoken

Yeah, he's too cool. Bush - I could see doing a bbq with him. McCain - probably a decent conversation, likewise with Huckabee. Santorum - well, I suppose I could stop by on Christmas and find some good cookies to snack on for an hour or so.

But the Romney's are so distant from that with which I can connect, that I can't see (projection) many people motivated to turn out and vote.

I'll try to find a link, but recent polls back up your impressions. 75% of those who support Obama say they will be affirmatively voting FOR him. OTOH, 65% of Romney supporters will be voting AGAINST Obama. This does mesh with the poli sci conventional wisdom that reelections are referenda on the president. But the gulf in numbers is so huge that there's probably more to it.

Indeed, the polls show Obama leading on all character traits and qualities except one (and it happens to be a biggie). He and Mitt are essentially tied when it comes to the question of who's more capable of fixing the economy. Other than that, Mitt wouldn't have much of a chance. As it is, he's in the thick of the race because Obama didn't miraculously fix an unfixable economy.

99 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:55:39pm

re: #94 prairiefire

Yeah, but you are a guy. These patriarchal types would not give my nerdy liberal type gal the time of day. Well, maybe the time of day, but they would not ask me to the bbq.

Bush would, since he's a fairly laid back kind of guy. McCain likely would, but his BBQ would have a lot of retired service men and women and I don't know how at home you'd be in that crowd. I myself would feel inadequate.

100 Mocking Jay  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:56:29pm

I hear Huckabee throws a bad-ass BBQ.

101 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:56:53pm

re: #98 palomino

I'll try to find a link, but recent polls back up your impressions. 75% of those who support Obama say they will be affirmatively voting FOR him. OTOH, 65% of Romney supporters will be voting AGAINST Obama. This does mesh with the poli sci conventional wisdom that reelections are referenda on the president. But the gulf in numbers is so huge that there's probably more to it.

Indeed, the polls show Obama leading on all character traits and qualities except one (and it happens to be a biggie). He and Mitt are essentially tied when it comes to the question of who's more capable of fixing the economy. Other than that, Mitt wouldn't have much of a chance. As it is, he's in the thick of the race because Obama didn't miraculously fix an unfixable economy.

I saw this too. I honestly think he gets too much credit from voters on economics issues. I won't call the man economically illiterate but his proposed policies are more of the same that we've been hearing since the 1980's. Also, I think the only issue he leads on within the economy is controllign the debt. Obama has him beat on controlling unemployment.

102 Achilles Tang  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:57:46pm

re: #98 palomino

As it is, he's in the thick of the race because Obama didn't miraculously fix an unfixable economy.

Which illustrates the ignorance of the GOP electorate, since they think, and the candidates pretend, that the president is an absolute ruler.

103 freetoken  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:58:22pm

re: #94 prairiefire

Yeah, but you are a guy. These patriarchal types would not give my nerdy liberal type gal the time of day. Well, maybe the time of day, but they would not ask me to the bbq.

Well, they would need someone to cut the cabbage for the coleslaw and then wash the dishes afterwards.

104 palomino  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:58:44pm

re: #100 Oblivious Troll

I hear Huckabee throws a bad-ass BBQ.

And his buddy Ted Nugent kills, skins, butchers and grills all the meat!

105 Gus  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:58:48pm
106 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:59:03pm

re: #100 Oblivious Troll

I hear Huckabee throws a bad-ass BBQ.

I think the food would be good at that one but there would be no beer. Anyhow, maybe it's the placebo effect of my oldest uncle telling me that he was the first candidate he gave money to but Joe Biden reminds me of my uncles. Smart and aware of the world around him but down to earth. If I hadn't known he was a teetottler, Biden would be "the candidate I'd have a beer with." Obama seems like a neat guy too and I liked finding out he was on the right side of the Guinness question.

107 prairiefire  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 8:59:49pm

re: #99 Dark_Falcon

Bush would, since he's a fairly laid back kind of guy. McCain likely would, but his BBQ would have a lot of retired service men and women and I don't know how at home you'd be in that crowd. I myself would feel inadequate.

I think I would be at home with retired service men and women. I think I am expressing a snap judgement opinion on their part, which to be fair, anyone can be capable of. (myself included)

108 prairiefire  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:00:58pm

re: #103 freetoken

Well, they would need someone to cut the cabbage for the coleslaw and then wash the dishes afterwards.

Wow, I can't believe how fast my finger flew up. Talk about snap judgements!!!

109 Mocking Jay  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:01:00pm

re: #106 HappyWarrior

I think the food would be good at that one but there would be no beer. Anyhow, maybe it's the placebo effect of my oldest uncle telling me that he was the first candidate he gave money to but Joe Biden reminds me of my uncles. Smart and aware of the world around him but down to earth. If I hadn't known he was a teetottler, Biden would be "the candidate I'd have a beer with." Obama seems like a neat guy too and I liked finding out he was on the right side of the Guinness question.

Meh. Guiness.

Though I enjoy a nice Black & Tan from time to time.

110 palomino  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:01:40pm

re: #101 HappyWarrior

I saw this too. I honestly think he gets too much credit from voters on economics issues. I won't call the man economically illiterate but his proposed policies are more of the same that we've been hearing since the 1980's. Also, I think the only issue he leads on within the economy is controllign the debt. Obama has him beat on controlling unemployment.

He thinks the Ryan budget is just mahhhvelous. Even though it doesn't come close to adding up. You simply can't cut taxes, increase military spending AND balance the budget...at least not without gutting the rest of govt spending.

111 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:02:06pm

re: #105 Gus

It's taquiyya! Obama didn't really eat dog, he threw that in to make us think he's not really a Muslim!!!

OMGG!!!

112 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:02:31pm

re: #110 palomino

And even with gutting the rest of the spending, it still adds up to deficit-land.

113 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:02:36pm

related: what it's like to be a working American in a Republican state

114 jaunte  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:02:45pm
115 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:02:48pm

re: #105 Gus

Because the "Evvvill Conspiracy" always has to make a mistake that lets the Good guys swoop in and save the day. It's part of the Guide to Writing Bad Political Fiction.

116 Gus  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:02:52pm

re: #111 SanFranciscoZionist

It's taquiyya! Obama didn't really eat dog, he threw that in to make us think he's not really a Muslim!!!

OMGG!!!

Ha!

117 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:03:29pm

re: #109 Oblivious Troll

Meh. Guiness.

Though I enjoy a nice Black & Tan from time to time.

it's all about THE ABYSS

guinness is a macro :D

118 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:03:43pm

re: #110 palomino

He thinks the Ryan budget is just mahhhvelous. Even though it doesn't come close to adding up. You simply can't cut taxes, increase military spending AND balance the budget...at least not without gutting the rest of govt spending.

Exactly. I think deep down he knows it's a load of shit but he wants this job so bad that he panders to whatever he thinks is popular. I really think that if there were a strong social democratic tradition in this country that Mitt would have pandered to that at one point in his career because he thinks the answer is telling people what they want to hear and then when that position becomes unpopular turning on it and acting like it never happened.

119 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:05:38pm

re: #117 windupbird is in the gravity well

it's all about THE ABYSS

guinness is a macro :D

That looks good. I'll have to look for it next time I'm at a bar that has a big selection.

120 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:08:06pm

So, I try to sleep last night.

I have Old Man Dog on my left, diagonally between my husband and I, with his head on my pillow, muzzle right up next to my nose. My left arm is intertwined with his legs.

Princess Dog is on her back, also between us.

Brat Puppy is on my other side, with enough room to be sure he doesn't fall off. My right arm is pinned under the covers.

Together, we 4 take up about 3/5 of a king-sized bed.

Old Man Dog starts dreaming. Legs shaking, dream muffled barking in my ear. I try moving my arm to scratch his ears to calm him in his sleep and he shakes his head in that dream state to get rid of the fly or whatever is bothering his head.

Then he starts running faster and barking with more furor. That muffled, dream bark is plenty loud when it is next to you on the pillow.

THEN hubby starts to sleep mumble "Old Man, it's ok. Old Man! It's fine. OLD MAN, THAT IS ENOUGH!"

I have to get up in 4 hours. I lay there, pinned into about a 5th of the bed, unable to move anything but my left arm and think:

"My life could be so much worse."

121 palomino  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:08:22pm

re: #118 HappyWarrior

Exactly. I think deep down he knows it's a load of shit but he wants this job so bad that he panders to whatever he thinks is popular. I really think that if there were a strong social democratic tradition in this country that Mitt would have pandered to that at one point in his career because he thinks the answer is telling people what they want to hear and then when that position becomes unpopular turning on it and acting like it never happened.

Yes, not only has Mitt been running non-stop for 5 years, but since we're talking psychoanalysis there just might be some unresolved daddy issues that compel him to run. His father was a competent GOP prez candidate in 1968; he later became a punch line because of his unfortunate comments on Vietnam. (He said, "I was brainwashed" when trying to explain his earlier positions on Nam, which he had changed.)

122 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:11:01pm

re: #86 SanFranciscoZionist

IIRC, nothing. Psychopathy is equivalent to sociopathy, and both are now seen as a subset of behaviors of antisocial personality disorder.

Nixon was definitely a Cluster A.

Antisocial is Cluster B.

I don't see Mitt as having the symptoms, though.

I have a hard time seeing Nixon as one of those personality disorders because I think he truly loved Pat and the girls. I tend to see him more of a depression/anxiety disorder combined with high intelligence and the stress of the reality of the time. He was definitely an introvert as well.

Needless to say, a lot of individuals and the country would have been better off if they had access to the mental health treatment we have today.

123 EdDantes  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:11:52pm

re: #114 jaunte

Wow, indeed. Hubble was worth every dime. I hope we continue to put telescopes up there.

124 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:13:33pm

re: #121 palomino

Yes, not only has Mitt been running non-stop for 5 years, but since we're talking psychoanalysis there just might be some unresolved daddy issues that compel him to run. His father was a competent GOP prez candidate in 1968; he later became a punch line because of his unfortunate comments on Vietnam. (He said, "I was brainwashed" when trying to explain his earlier positions on Nam, which he had changed.)

I find his Dad interesting because of the likely chance his Dad and my grandfather probably met at one point. He was a NLRB man and George Romney as you know probably was an auto exec. The strangest story I've ever read about Mitt is reading that he actually protested in favor of the draft during Vietnam and then went to France and did his mission. That just strikes me as a good summary of the kind of guy I think Mitt is.

125 prairiefire  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:13:36pm

I was reading in Time magazine that President Clinton said he called up Nixon several times, late at night, to discuss things. Clinton has a letter from Nixon from a bit before Nixon died that means a lot to him.

Sleep tight, Lizards!

126 Gus  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:17:05pm

Barack Obama: The 50 facts you might not know
6:50PM GMT 07 Nov 2008

He ate dog meat, snake meat, and roasted grasshopper while living in Indonesia

127 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:17:52pm

Mitt says he was brainwashed?

Does that mean that HE is the manchurian candidate?

128 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:18:07pm

re: #122 ggt

I have a hard time seeing Nixon as one of those personality disorders because I think he truly loved Pat and the girls. I tend to see him more of a depression/anxiety disorder combined with high intelligence and the stress of the reality of the time. He was definitely an introvert as well.

Needless to say, a lot of individuals and the country would have been better off if they had access to the mental health treatment we have today.

Paranoid personality disorder doesn't mean that a person is unable to have genuine emotional attachments, but an axiety disorder's also possible. All I know of the man is his public actions and persona, and some general information about him.

129 palomino  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:18:24pm

re: #124 HappyWarrior

I find his Dad interesting because of the likely chance his Dad and my grandfather probably met at one point. He was a NLRB man and George Romney as you know probably was an auto exec. The strangest story I've ever read about Mitt is reading that he actually protested in favor of the draft during Vietnam and then went to France and did his mission. That just strikes me as a good summary of the kind of guy I think Mitt is.

You'd think the Romney legacy would help Mitt in Michigan. But after he basically told Detroit to go bankrupt and die, I don't think his chances there are great, in spite of a bad economy.

130 Gus  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:18:26pm

Top 10 Interesting Facts About Barack Obama
May 19, 2008

He was born in Honolulu, Hawaii but went to live in Indonesia with his mum when the parents divorced. There he was introduced to dog meat, snake meat, and roasted grasshopper.

131 jaunte  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:19:16pm

re: #130 Gus

Obama ate David Carradine!

132 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:19:31pm

re: #127 ggt

Mitt says he was brainwashed?

Does that mean that HE is the manchurian candidate?

His father said that about earlier views he'd had about the Vietnam War.

133 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:19:51pm

re: #128 SanFranciscoZionist

Paranoid personality disorder doesn't mean that a person is unable to have genuine emotional attachments, but an axiety disorder's also possible. All I know of the man is his public actions and persona, and some general information about him.

I've actually developed a compassion for both he and LBJ since I've been reading more and more.

I am certainly more cognizant of the importance of mental health treatment and overall health.

I've also learned they had some real reasons to be fearful --compounded by their own illness made the the paranoia inevitable.

134 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:20:08pm

re: #130 Gus

Top 10 Interesting Facts About Barack Obama
May 19, 2008

Clearly, this was a very well-kept secret.

135 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:20:53pm

re: #128 SanFranciscoZionist

Paranoid personality disorder doesn't mean that a person is unable to have genuine emotional attachments, but an axiety disorder's also possible. All I know of the man is his public actions and persona, and some general information about him.

I was thinking of sociopathy, people without conscience --see other's as things.

I don't see that in Nixon.

136 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:21:06pm

re: #131 jaunte

Obama ate David Carradine!

But Bill's code name was "Snake Charmer", not "Snake Meat"!

/

137 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:22:31pm

I always get the impression that MItt is some sort of "Ken Doll" wannabe.

138 Targetpractice  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:22:49pm

re: #127 ggt

Mitt says he was brainwashed?

Does that mean that HE is the manchurian candidate?

Just be careful you don't show him the Queen of Diamonds.

/(geek moment)

139 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:24:23pm
140 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:24:37pm

re: #129 palomino

You'd think the Romney legacy would help Mitt in Michigan. But after he basically told Detroit to go bankrupt and die, I don't think his chances there are great, in spite of a bad economy.

In that way, I think he'd be even weaker in Santorum in the rust belt.

141 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:26:34pm

re: #135 ggt

I was thinking of sociopathy, people without conscience --see other's as things.

I don't see that in Nixon.

No, I wouldn't say that Nixon was a sociopath at all. Antisocial is only one of a big bunch of personality disorders.

My favorite antisocial personality disorder story comes from a therapist who describes a very, very troubled young man sitting down in his office, and telling his parents with tears in his eyes how sorry he was for the pain he'd caused them, how he wanted to try again, and begging them for the chance to live at home.

His parents were in tears, holding him. The therapist started to slowly, dramatically, applaud.

The parent turn on the therapist...what's the matter with you?

The kid grins at the therapist and says, "It was worth a try."

Most interesting sociopath fact--in prison populations, a much higher percentage of white guys test as sociopaths than black guys.

142 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:28:14pm

My favorite assignment so far in my MFT classes--diagnosing Charlie Sheen from that famous interview.

The professor told us: "Obviously there's a lot going on here, so try to just focus on the bipolar."

143 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:30:54pm

re: #141 SanFranciscoZionist

No, I wouldn't say that Nixon was a sociopath at all. Antisocial is only one of a big bunch of personality disorders.

My favorite antisocial personality disorder story comes from a therapist who describes a very, very troubled young man sitting down in his office, and telling his parents with tears in his eyes how sorry he was for the pain he'd caused them, how he wanted to try again, and begging them for the chance to live at home.

His parents were in tears, holding him. The therapist started to slowly, dramatically, applaud.

The parent turn on the therapist...what's the matter with you?

The kid grins at the therapist and says, "It was worth a try."

Most interesting sociopath fact--in prison populations, a much higher percentage of white guys test as sociopaths than black guys.

So basically sociopaths could be said to be master manipulators of other people and their emotions. Yeah I don't see that in Nixon either. I think he was a troubled man with an inferiority complex. I also think he was haunted by what happened with his brothers.

144 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:31:00pm

I just read an epic smackdown of The Atlantic that I just have to share:

Another Internet Terrorologist(*) in the Thpenther Ackerman mode is vewwy vewwy upset that he doesn't have better visibility into the Abbotabad raid that whacked Bin Laden. No word on whether he's packing his backpack and running away to join the thircus. On the other hand, we can take it to the bank that he's not running away to join the Army (or Marines or SEALs). Or even the Air Force, that noble alternative to military service. But I digress.

More Revisions to the Official Bin Laden Raid Story - Global - The Atlantic Wire.

As John Hudson, the Internet Terrorologist in question, puts it in The Atlantic, a publication legendary for its insistence that Sarah Palin's last kid was some kind of Manchurian Child doppelgänger, "the narrative of the raid on Osama bin Laden's compound is getting another revamp."

Let me explain it in terms even the uterus detectives at the Atlantic can understand: those who know aren't talking, and those who are talking don't know.

(Bolding in original)

SNIP

Hudson's second mistake is assuming that other people are telling the truth -- especially journalists. In the rush to get in print in May 2011, no one bothered with accuracy, or with multiple independent sources. They just started typing. "Shaping the narrative," gathering (or making up) facts that fit, hammering facts that didn't into shape, throwing facts they didn't like away. That's how they roll.

Read the whole thing...

145 Kronocide  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:32:09pm

Now Obama fondly ate dogs:

This could tip the election.... even more towards Obama.

146 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:33:50pm

Even animals can sometimes have their personality misunderstood:

Image: HoneyBadger2.jpg

Image: HoneyBadger.jpg

147 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:34:46pm

re: #145 Kronocide

Now Obama fondly ate dogs:

This could tip the election... even more towards Obama.

Maybe Dog Eating Veterans For Truth will have a commercial where they tell us not only did Obama like eating dogs, he killed the dogs he eat and laughed at Mitt Romney while doing so.

148 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:35:37pm

re: #146 Dark_Falcon

Even animals can sometimes have their personality misunderstood:

Image: HoneyBadger2.jpg

Image: HoneyBadger.jpg

Okay that second honeybadger one is probably the best of that meme I've seen and I hate that meme.

149 freetoken  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:36:00pm

In following the fallout over the "Adam and Eve" and genetics discussions, now for several months, a few things are being reinforced in my mind:

(1) the Institutional fundamentalists (i.e., those leaders of seminaries or congregations) are drawing the circle tight around their little groups, and are ascribing to other professing Christians who accept science (e.g., genetics) an apostasy.

(2) those few self-declared "evangelical" Christians who are trying to rethink their theology in light of recent scientific discoveries that show clearly there were never just two humans contemporaneous from whom, and only from whom, every person descends, are finding themselves being put out of the circle of insiders that believe themselves to be the "true" believers.

(3) a great share of contemporary American public are not paying attention to this issue, even though a majority of Americans likely think there really was a literal Adam and Eve (sometime, somewhere).

Thus, I don't see the current thrust by the Biologos crowd and their allies having much affect, at least immediately, on the landscape of American Christianity. I suspect Rupert Murdoch does more to influence (for his own benefit) that segment of American society in one day than what the academics will be able to do in a lifetime.

150 Varek Raith  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:36:14pm

re: #148 HappyWarrior

Okay that second honeybadger one is probably the best of that meme I've seen and I hate that meme.

Then you took an arrow in the knee.

151 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:37:24pm

re: #143 HappyWarrior

So basically sociopaths could be said to be master manipulators of other people and their emotions. Yeah I don't see that in Nixon either. I think he was a troubled man with an inferiority complex. I also think he was haunted by what happened with his brothers.

Some sociopaths are skilled manipulators, but they're not all that smart. And not all manipulative people are sociopaths. And there's a lot of argument, still, about how you diagnose this.

152 Varek Raith  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:37:49pm
153 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:39:34pm

Is there seriously going to be an issue of what Barack Obama ate as a young boy? The Onion had it right, every single person running in 2040 is fucked because of their facebook account.

154 darthstar  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:39:49pm

Almost makes you wonder how miserable it must be for a political party strapped to Mitt Romney for the general election.

155 jaunte  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:39:56pm

Romney Actively Sought Nugent Endorsement and Agreed to His Demands to Win It

As Tommy Christopher over at Mediaite points out, presidential candidates can’t be expected to answer for everything their supporters say. However, it’s a different story when the candidate personally seeks an endorsement: “Mitt Romney shouldn’t have to answer for every idiotic thing ever said by a conservative, if only due to time constraints. However, it is fair to ask him if he agrees with those whose endorsements he has actively sought.”

156 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:42:07pm

re: #155 jaunte

Romney Actively Sought Nugent Endorsement and Agreed to His Demands to Win It

He actively sought out Nugent's endorsement? This wasn't the first time Nuge appeared on political cesspool but I guess it's not language Romney would have used so that makes it okay in his book.

157 darthstar  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:42:27pm

re: #155 jaunte

Romney Actively Sought Nugent Endorsement and Agreed to His Demands to Win It

Romney gets a little scat scratch fever from the Nuge...He could have gotten that from Santorum with only half the stigma.

158 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:42:28pm

re: #154 darthstar

Almost makes you wonder how miserable it must be for a political party strapped to Mitt Romney for the general election.

I think the two are perfect for each other really at this juncture.

159 jaunte  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:43:59pm

How smart is Nugent? This smart:
Nugent Endorses Romney But Prefers "Real" Perry

"If the real Rick Perry had been at those debates, he would still be in the race," Nugent told the Tribune Friday. "It is my firm belief that Rick Perry would have [made] and would make the best president we could choose."

160 Gus  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:44:16pm

Hey Cletus lookie here. Sez Barrack HUSSEIN Obama used to eat dog when he wuz in Indoneehus.

Damn that's the weirdest thing I ever heard.

So. What you want for supper Celtus? Possum, squirrel, or that roadkill I found the other day.

161 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:44:45pm

re: #159 jaunte

How smart is Nugent? This smart:
Nugent Endorses Romney But Prefers "Real" Perry

The "real" Rick Perry. I myself prefer the real Slim Shady but he hasn't stood up yet.

162 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:45:26pm

re: #152 Varek Raith

I saw that.

That story legitimately scared the shit out of me.

163 Lidane  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:45:28pm

re: #70 ggt

I'm not watching the video.

I'm not either. Even if it's a fake, staged video I have no interest in imagining what that poor dog went through.

I already have a lot of reasons not to vote for Mitt Romney. The callous cruelty he displayed towards that dog is just another reason why he's unfit to run for office.

164 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:46:33pm

Some very bad news:

Warren Buffett diagnosed with prostate cancer

Edit:Seems to be Stage 1

165 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:48:28pm

re: #164 ProGunLiberal

Some very bad news:

Warren Buffett diagnosed with prostate cancer

Well, there are lots of options with Prostate Cancer. It generally is not a fast growing cancer.

Many older men choose not to go thru treatment because it is likely something else will kill them before the cancer does.

Dear Ole' Dad went thru the seeded radiation and did fine.

166 Lidane  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:49:03pm

re: #153 HappyWarrior

Is there seriously going to be an issue of what Barack Obama ate as a young boy?

Of course there is. A significant portion of this country flipped their shit when a black man got elected POTUS. That's not going to change anytime soon.

167 jaunte  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:49:22pm
168 Varek Raith  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:49:43pm

re: #167 jaunte

Wut

169 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:50:56pm

re: #167 jaunte

[Embedded content]

You know for someone who compares the current administration to Nazi Germany, there's something to be said about a man who calls his critics subhumans. What a sad little man. Go crap your pants Ted and cry to someone who gives a damn.

170 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:51:39pm

re: #167 jaunte

I can't parse what the shit-crusted, adle-brained, ephebophilic dipshit is saying.

171 jaunte  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:52:10pm

re: #170 ProGunLiberal

'More Wango to come"

172 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:53:08pm

re: #168 Varek Raith

Wut

I think it sounds better in its original German.

/Oh yes, I went there.

173 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:53:59pm

re: #160 Gus

"Most folk'll never fol-low Glenn Beck!
But then again some Folk'll,
Like Cletus, the Slack-jawed Yokel!"

174 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:54:16pm

re: #171 jaunte

No, I want English.

Preferably in a non-dumbass dialect.

re: #172 Dark_Falcon

You missed some special stuff earlier about Ted Nugent.

175 freetoken  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:54:31pm

re: #167 jaunte

Dig, Ted, dig.

176 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:54:41pm

Hey, Romney, great job seeking out this guy's endorsement. He represents you soooooooooooo well.

177 Varek Raith  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:54:58pm

re: #172 Dark_Falcon

I think it sounds better in its original German.

/Oh yes, I went there.

Was ist das???
/

178 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:55:55pm

re: #174 ProGunLiberal

No, I want English.

Preferably in a non-dumbass dialect.

re: #172 Dark_Falcon

You missed some special stuff earlier about Ted Nugent.

Okay, I'll try to translate. Basically, the jackass is saying that everyone who doesn't like what he is saying is a sub-human who can't handle the truth coming from a true American.

179 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:56:48pm

Ephebophilia

Ted? really?

180 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:57:10pm

re: #178 HappyWarrior

See, the way he ordered the sentence confused the hell out of me, which was compounded by his lack of grammar. This says a great deal about his lack of intelligence.

181 jaunte  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:57:43pm

So if Nugent lives in the Waco, Texas area and would rather have had Rick Perry as his candidate, why on earth does Mitt want his endorsement?

182 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:57:56pm

re: #179 ggt

Were you not here for that? From Wiki:

In 1978, Nugent began a relationship with seventeen-year-old Hawaii native Pele Massa. Due to the age difference they could not marry so Nugent joined Massa's parents in signing documents to make himself her legal guardian, an arrangement that Spin magazine ranked in October 2000 as #63 on their list of the "100 Sleaziest Moments in Rock".

183 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:58:16pm

re: #179 ggt

Ephebophilia

Ted? really?

No, he's been married to the same woman for decades. He has many troubles, but that's not one of them.

184 Lidane  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:58:56pm

re: #183 Dark_Falcon

Let's not pretend that he's an upstanding citizen.

185 jaunte  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:59:31pm

He's outshooting in his field.

186 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 9:59:47pm

re: #183 Dark_Falcon

You might want to look up one post from yours.

187 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:00:43pm

re: #182 ProGunLiberal

Were you not here for that? From Wiki:

17 doesn't count in my book. sorry

188 Gus  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:01:28pm

Wango tango!

189 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:01:46pm

re: #187 ggt

For me it does. Especially when the dude is 30! Not okay! In fact, EWWW!

190 jaunte  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:02:24pm

re: #181 jaunte

So if Nugent lives in the Waco, Texas area and would rather have had Rick Perry as his candidate, why on earth does Mitt want his endorsement?

Let me simplify that: "why on earth does Mitt want his endorsement?"

191 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:02:34pm

re: #189 ProGunLiberal

For me it does. Especially when the dude is 30! Not okay! In fact, EWWW!

I was a 17 year old girl.

IMHO, most 17 yo girls are more mature than most 30 year old men.

:0

192 Gus  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:03:00pm

re: #181 jaunte

So if Nugent lives in the Waco, Texas area and would rather have had Rick Perry as his candidate, why on earth does Mitt want his endorsement?

Waco! Now that got me thinking. Ted Nugent. David Koresh. Ted Nugent.

193 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:03:02pm

re: #190 jaunte

Let me simplify that: "why on earth does Mitt want his endorsement?"

Because a lot of people follow Ted. His endorsement will help.

194 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:03:15pm

re: #191 ggt

I was a 17 year old girl.

IMHO, most 17 yo girls are more mature than most 30 year old men.

:0

Hey! Oh wait I'm 25 in July.

195 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:03:19pm

re: #191 ggt

You are not going to convince me that what he did isn't skeevy as hell.

196 Varek Raith  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:03:42pm

Music break!

197 jaunte  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:03:45pm

re: #193 ggt

That is surprising.

198 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:04:02pm

re: #195 ProGunLiberal

You are not going to convince me that what he did isn't skeevy as hell.

If he dumped her when she got past the young girl stage, then yes, but if they have been married ever since --no.

199 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:04:41pm

re: #197 jaunte

That is surprising.

why? it is a demographic Mitt has no commonality with.

200 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:05:56pm

re: #187 ggt

17 doesn't count in my book. sorry

I'm not shocked that he was seeing her.

I am horrified that her idiot parents would allow some thirty-year-old rocker to become her legal guardian.

201 jaunte  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:06:08pm

re: #199 ggt

Has-been semi-rock-star doesn't seem like a powerful ally.

202 Gus  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:06:21pm

re: #193 ggt

Because a lot of people follow Ted. His endorsement will help.

It's not like anyone who would let a guy like Nugent influence their vote was about to vote for Obama in the first place.

203 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:06:53pm

re: #201 jaunte

Has-been semi-rock-star doesn't seem like a powerful ally.

I think he's popular in second amendment activist circles, a group that Romney has tried like crazy convincing that he's their ally.

204 jaunte  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:07:40pm

re: #203 HappyWarrior

I guess that's it. Nailing down the gun fans.

205 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:08:40pm

re: #200 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm not shocked that he was seeing her.

I am horrified that her idiot parents would allow some thirty-year-old rocker to become her legal guardian.

Priscilla Presley's parents did it. . . .

Melanie Griffith lived with Don Johnson --Tippi Hedron let her.

Strange, I wouldn't do it.

206 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:09:03pm

re: #204 jaunte

I guess that's it. Nailing down the gun fans.

More for the primary than GE, yes. It's Mitt being Mitt though. Obama has the better musicians and entertainers behind him anyhow. DeNiro >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Ted Nugent

207 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:09:18pm

There's nothing wrong with eating dog meat, but try to explain that to yahoos.

208 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:09:24pm

re: #201 jaunte

Has-been semi-rock-star doesn't seem like a powerful ally.

Ted is very active in shooting sports and 2nd Amendment Issues.

I don't think he is the best spokesperson, but he does a lot of work in these areas.

209 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:09:53pm

re: #200 SanFranciscoZionist

That was #63 on the Top 100 Sleaziest Incidents in Rock & Roll History.

I am very scared what #1 is.

210 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:10:03pm

re: #198 ggt

If he dumped her when she got past the young girl stage, then yes, but if they have been married ever since --no.

He didn't marry her at all. He cheated on his 1st wife with her, and married again after they broke up.

He's also one of those guys who had to be dragging to court for not supporting his out-of-wedlock children.

Skeevy.

211 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:10:57pm

re: #210 The Ghost of a Flea

He didn't marry her at all. He cheated on his 1st wife with her, and married again after they broke up.

He's also one of those guys who had to be dragging to court for not supporting his out-of-wedlock children.

Skeevy.

ah!

but it still doesn't seem to support the diagnosis of eph--whatever unless he has a string of underage girlfriends/wives.

212 Varek Raith  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:11:18pm

re: #209 ProGunLiberal

That was #63 on the Top 100 Sleaziest Incidents in Rock & Roll History.

I am very scared what #1 is.

Led Zeppelin and seafood.
...
..
.

213 freetoken  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:11:22pm

re: #209 ProGunLiberal

That was #63 on the Top 100 Sleaziest Incidents in Rock & Roll History.

I am very scared what #1 is.

The 100 SLEAZIEST MOMENTS IN ROCK:

1. Led Zeppelin's Seafood Fetish: Led Zeppelin are the undisputed gods of rock 'n' roll perversity. Their most infamous moment: a disgusting 1969 incident at Seattle's Edgewater Inn involving fornication with fresh seafood. The event remains the standard by which all rock debauchery has been measured.

214 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:11:30pm

re: #209 ProGunLiberal

That was #63 on the Top 100 Sleaziest Incidents in Rock & Roll History.

I am very scared what #1 is.

A guess but Jerry Lee Lewis marrying his fourteen year old cousin is probably pretty high up there. Charlie Watts or Bill Wyman of the Stones married a teenage girl I believe. And then her mother married Bill's son. So Bill or Charlie was briefly son-in-law to his own son. Okay, I see in the link now that it was Bill Wyman and Bill's son never married the mother.

215 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:12:03pm

re: #213 freetoken

The 100 SLEAZIEST MOMENTS IN ROCK:

Drug abuse will make for strange behavior . . .

216 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:12:41pm

re: #212 Varek Raith

I just found that out.

My brain is crying.

217 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:13:18pm

re: #216 ProGunLiberal

I just found that out.

My brain is crying.

Mind bleach is definitely in order.

218 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:13:24pm

re: #212 Varek Raith

Led Zeppelin and seafood.
...
..
.

I should have guessed.

219 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:13:55pm

Ted definitely gets major down dings for making unplanned babies and not being a daddy to them.

220 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:14:47pm

re: #211 ggt

ah!

but it still doesn't seem to support the diagnosis of eph--whatever unless he has a string of underage girlfriends/wives.

Yeah. I'm not a fan of armchair diagnosis.

Anyway, his Political Cesspool stuff is sufficient such that I don't give a crap about his personal life. I'm horrified at the idea of a politician seeking high office consulting a Neo-Confederate for his blessing (and policy advice about Fish & Wildlife).

221 Targetpractice  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:15:15pm

re: #207 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

There's nothing wrong with eating dog meat, but try to explain that to yahoos.

Honestly? I'd give the nice long list of various meats consumed in this country, starting with alligator and moving my way down, then ask them why any of those are not considered "wrong" but eating dog is.

222 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:16:04pm

re: #221 Targetpractice

Honestly? I'd give the nice long list of various meats consumed in this country, starting with alligator and moving my way down, then ask them why any of those are not considered "wrong" but eating dog is.

eating dog and horse in this country is verboten. Very bad juju.

223 MittDoesNotCompute  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:16:23pm

re: #221 Targetpractice

Honestly? I'd give the nice long list of various meats consumed in this country, starting with alligator and moving my way down, then ask them why any of those are not considered "wrong" but eating dog is.

Because most Americans have an aversion to eating anything cute and/or fuzzy. Most animals that have been in a Disney cartoon, many Americans don't want on their plate, because that's how they'll always see those animals.

224 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:19:24pm

re: #222 ggt

eating dog and horse in this country is verboten. Very bad juju.

Yet eating squirrels isn't?

225 Targetpractice  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:20:42pm

re: #223 GnarlyGnomeOfGnowledge

Because most Americans have an aversion to eating anything cute and fuzzy.

I'm guessing "most Americans" are vegetarians then, because if we're cutting things that were "cute and fuzzy" at one point in their lives off the menu, then we're gonna be left with very little to choose from.

226 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:22:27pm

Americans don't eat rabbits?

227 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:22:51pm

re: #207 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

There's nothing wrong with eating dog meat, but try to explain that to yahoos.

I honestly don't think this will be yahoo thing, this will be an 'already hates Obama', or 'hates Obama and is very sheltered' thing.

Remember when everyone was so, so shocked by Sarah Palin doing an interview in front of a turkey slaughter? My friend Niamh, who is the world's most devout Democrat, thought that was moronic. She grew up on a farm. So, turkeys, slaughtered--why freak out?

I don't think it's the guys who hunt possum that will freak out over this, it will be the people who think that meat comes in plastic wrap from the supermarket, and also know that Obama is the devil.

That is, if anyone besides the inner circle of wingnutosphere readers actually even notices this.

228 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:22:55pm

re: #224 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

Yet eating squirrels isn't?

Hey, FBV and I don't eat meat at all.

And I especially don't get how anyone could eat a rodent.

EWWWWWW!

But, OTOH. When the US stopped exporting horse to France, we had a huge horse overpopulation --bad for the horses.

We have a huge dog and cat overpopulation as well. And there are hungry people all over the world that would eat them.

Like I don't understand the moratorium on geese. We have geese out the wazoo in the Chicago area. BIG PROBLEM GEESE. They are like rats and the food pantries and homeless shelters could use that meat.

Yet Meat Slurry and mystery hot dogs are just fine.

I don't have the answers.

229 freetoken  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:23:53pm

re: #225 Targetpractice

I'm guessing "most Americans" are vegetarians then, because if we're cutting things that were "cute and fuzzy" at one point in their lives off the menu, then we're gonna be left with very little to choose from.

If that were true, then Led Zeppelin would have had to have sex with... some eggplant.

230 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:24:25pm

re: #229 freetoken

If that were true, then Led Zeppelin would have had to have sex with... some eggplant.

I've heard some really creepy things about banannas and squash.

:0

231 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:24:31pm

re: #211 ggt

ah!

but it still doesn't seem to support the diagnosis of eph--whatever unless he has a string of underage girlfriends/wives.

I think he was just showing off and being stupid.

Hilariously, this is reminding me of an argument I had here in more wingnutty times, about Mohammed's marriage to Aisha.

232 freetoken  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:24:44pm

It just wouldn't have been the same... sex with eggplant, that is.

233 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:24:51pm

re: #228 ggt

Maybe it's some health problem with geese? Some local infections or something? Because there's nothing wrong with eating geese either.

234 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:25:11pm

I think Americans taboo animals that we develop bonds with. E.g horses and dogs. I understand why. At the same time, I don't give a shit that Obama ate dog meat as a boy.

235 MittDoesNotCompute  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:25:55pm

re: #225 Targetpractice

I'm guessing "most Americans" are vegetarians then, because if we're cutting things that were "cute and fuzzy" at one point in their lives off the menu, then we're gonna be left with very little to choose from.

We're talking about people who think that meat comes from a styrofoam tray, wrapped in Saran Wrap; also, most cattle and pigs are not exactly cute at slaughter age and birds are a whole 'nother kettle of fish.

However, some do know where their meat comes from and don't mind eating something that was once cute and fuzzy; I don't hunt, but when I can get my hands on some venison, I'll take it. Rabbit, squirrel, and possum I'm not so big on, but if it came down to it, I'd eat it.

Mmmmmm, deer backstrap...

236 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:26:03pm

re: #226 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

Americans don't eat rabbits?

hasenpfeffer!

I believe it is available at Whole Foods.

Someday I will be able to spell that word without looking it up. Too many "f's" and not enough "s's"

237 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:26:39pm

re: #234 HappyWarrior

Rabbits are pets.

238 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:27:22pm

I think South Park had an interesting point on this. We (most of us at least) love things like hamburgers, steaks, etc from grown cows but we hear veal and baby cow and we get revolted by that idea. Honestly, I love veal, I'd love to have it in my diet more often but alas it is quite expensive.

239 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:28:45pm

re: #233 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

Maybe it's some health problem with geese? Some local infections or something? Because there's nothing wrong with eating geese either.

No, it's because it's not safe and politically incorrect to declare hunting season in an Urban Area.

Out toward's the country, it is fine.

It's a Urban thing.

I wish there was a way to do it tho. It's a win-win --hunters and homeless.

AS I understand it, the local food pantrys won't even take fresh road killed dear.

An old hunter I know about said he and a butcher friend used to have a relationship with the local sherriff. They'd call the butcher when they had a fresh kill and the two of them would dress it and deliver the meat to the homeless shelter/food pantry. As the area got more populated, they quit accepting the meat. Sad really.

240 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:28:47pm

re: #237 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

Rabbits are pets.

Americans don't eat rabbits that much. At least not where I've lived. I've never had it before. Not to say I wouldn't eat rabbit. I am just saying that we taboo by and large based on animals that we become real close with. I admit that's why eating a dog is a thought that makes me personally uncomfortable.

241 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:28:51pm

re: #226 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

Americans don't eat rabbits?

Depends what Americans. It is a regional or rural food, relatively uncommon nationwide, I'd say. So's alligator, as someone mentioned.

Squirrel, small game like that, once again, is rural. My in-laws eat it a lot, or did when my GILs were younger...my husband's grandparents don't hunt much these days, and buy more meat from the store.

But dog, no, and there's a strongish taboo about horsemeat.

It's a big country though. My students used to try to freak me out by telling me about lengua tacos--apparently some Anglos just scream. Me, I grew up on old-fashioned Jewish food. Tongue's not my favorite thing, but it's not terrifying.

242 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:29:10pm

re: #231 SanFranciscoZionist

Hilariously, this is reminding me of an argument I had here in more wingnutty times, about Mohammed's marriage to Aisha.

Which brings in another topic recently discussed here. Namely, unreliability of sources about Muhmmad's life, specifically the hadiths.

243 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:29:40pm

re: #241 SanFranciscoZionist

Depends what Americans. It is a regional or rural food, relatively uncommon nationwide, I'd say. So's alligator, as someone mentioned.

Squirrel, small game like that, once again, is rural. My in-laws eat it a lot, or did when my GILs were younger...my husband's grandparents don't hunt much these days, and buy more meat from the store.

But dog, no, and there's a strongish taboo about horsemeat.

It's a big country though. My students used to try to freak me out by telling me about lengua tacos--apparently some Anglos just scream. Me, I grew up on old-fashioned Jewish food. Tongue's not my favorite thing, but it's not terrifying.

Dogs and horses have traditionally been man's partner. You don't eat what you need to survive.

244 Varek Raith  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:30:06pm

re: #242 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

Which brings in another topic recently discussed here. Namely, unreliability of sources about Muhmmad's life, specifically the hadiths.

Yeah, history is a tad fuzzy 1200+ years ago...

245 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:30:08pm

re: #228 ggt

Hey, FBV and I don't eat meat at all.

And I especially don't get how anyone could eat a rodent.

EWWW!

But, OTOH. When the US stopped exporting horse to France, we had a huge horse overpopulation --bad for the horses.

We have a huge dog and cat overpopulation as well. And there are hungry people all over the world that would eat them.

Like I don't understand the moratorium on geese. We have geese out the wazoo in the Chicago area. BIG PROBLEM GEESE. They are like rats and the food pantries and homeless shelters could use that meat.

Yet Meat Slurry and mystery hot dogs are just fine.

I don't have the answers.

When they give out hunting licenses to thin the deer out in Marin County, the meat goes to the local homeless shelters. Wild venison for dinner at the Salvation Army, until it runs out.

246 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:30:28pm

re: #243 ggt

Dogs and horses have traditionally been man's partner. You don't eat what you need to survive.

Yet they eat horse in France. I think taboos about eating horses is something that exists strongly in English speaking countries if I am not mistaken.

247 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:30:49pm

re: #224 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

Yet eating squirrels isn't?

Not really, no. It's kind of hick / woodsy, and not something you'll find at a restaurant but it's perfectly acceptable for home or camp cooking. Small game like squirrel and rabbit are good when there's no refrigeration available so no food gets wasted.

In the US it's illegal for the average private hunter to sell game so that's what limits the availability. Also, squirrels are probably a bitch to farm raise, being natural born escape artists. I've heard of commercially licensed trappers selling raccoon carcasses as food though.

248 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:30:52pm

re: #245 SanFranciscoZionist

When they give out hunting licenses to thin the deer out in Marin County, the meat goes to the local homeless shelters. Wild venison for dinner at the Salvation Army, until it runs out.

That is how it should be.

Well, the hunter should get some too!

But who the heck needs a whole deer? Large families, but still.

249 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:31:28pm

re: #240 HappyWarrior

I'm just pointing out that if the taboo is based on who can be a pet, then there should be a rabbit taboo too, but there isn't.

250 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:31:48pm

re: #232 freetoken

It just wouldn't have been the same... sex with eggplant, that is.

OK, disgusting moment from my youth. TMI. Stop reading now.

There was this guy who dated a gal I knew in college. Too old for her. Very creepy. We were all at a party. He was rubbing my shoulders, and telling me about how his ex could fit a whole eggplant up her...well, you know.

I wasn't interested in being freaked out, which was what he was angling for, so I said, "Asian or European eggplant?"

He left me alone after that, for some reason.

251 Targetpractice  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:32:42pm

re: #235 GnarlyGnomeOfGnowledge

We're talking about people who think that meat comes from a styrofoam tray, wrapped in Saran Wrap; also, most cattle and pigs are not exactly cute at slaughter age and birds are a whole 'nother kettle of fish.

However, some do know where their meat comes from and don't mind eating something that was once cute and fuzzy; I don't hunt, but when I can get my hands on some venison, I'll take it. Rabbit and possum, not so big on.

Mmmm, deer backstrap...

Let's be honest, most folks are willfully ignorant because it's the only way they can look a burger in the eye without puking their guts out. We don't ask what goes into that burger because we don't want to know. The big part of the outrage over "pink slime" was really people finding out that that "cheap" meat they've been buying at the store is "cheap" for a reason.

252 Varek Raith  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:32:47pm

re: #250 SanFranciscoZionist

OK, disgusting moment from my youth. TMI. Stop reading now.

There was this guy who dated a gal I knew in college. Too old for her. Very creepy. We were all at a party. He was rubbing my shoulders, and telling me about how his ex could fit a whole eggplant up her...well, you know.

I wasn't interested in being freaked out, which was what he was angling for, so I said, "Asian or European eggplant?"

He left me alone after that, for some reason.

3/10.
/

253 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:32:50pm

re: #238 HappyWarrior

I think South Park had an interesting point on this. We (most of us at least) love things like hamburgers, steaks, etc from grown cows but we hear veal and baby cow and we get revolted by that idea. Honestly, I love veal, I'd love to have it in my diet more often but alas it is quite expensive.

I hate veal. Lamb too. I know it's supposed to be better, but I like chewy meat. If you can cut it with a fork, I think it's kind of disturbing.

254 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:32:58pm

re: #242 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

Yep, the Hadiths about that crash into other sources that are more reliable.

255 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:33:02pm

re: #249 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

I'm just pointing out that if the taboo is based on who can be a pet, then there should be a rabbit taboo too, but there isn't.

Yeah, but most people don't have a rabbit as a pet, or ever have known anyone who did. Not like dogs.

256 MittDoesNotCompute  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:33:20pm

re: #248 ggt

That is how it should be.

Well, the hunter should get some too!

But who the heck needs a whole deer? Large families, but still.

That's what chest freezers are for, to have some available year-round.

My dad, when he hunted long ago, used to fill ours with deer and fish (usually bluegill and crappie).

257 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:33:34pm

re: #249 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

I'm just pointing out that if the taboo is based on who can be a pet, then there should be a rabbit taboo too, but there isn't.

Oh I know. But I do think if people had as many rabbits as they do cats and dogs then there would be. It's hard to explain. It makes no sense.

258 MittDoesNotCompute  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:33:56pm

re: #251 Targetpractice

Let's be honest, most folks are willfully ignorant because it's the only way they can look a burger in the eye without puking their guts out. We don't ask what goes into that burger because we don't want to know. The big part of the outrage over "pink slime" was really people finding out that that "cheap" meat they've been buying at the store is "cheap" for a reason.

Pretty much...

259 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:35:01pm

re: #251 Targetpractice

The big part of the outrage over "pink slime" was really people finding out that that "cheap" meat they've been buying at the store is "cheap" for a reason.

IMHO outrage was mostly about the name.

260 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:35:03pm

re: #253 SanFranciscoZionist

I hate veal. Lamb too. I know it's supposed to be better, but I like chewy meat. If you can cut it with a fork, I think it's kind of disturbing.

Oh man I love both of those. To each their own though.

261 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:35:55pm

re: #248 ggt

That is how it should be.

Well, the hunter should get some too!

But who the heck needs a whole deer? Large families, but still.

I think the hunters are permitted to stock up the freezer. But the deer are county property, and they use most of the meat to feed the hungry.

262 MittDoesNotCompute  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:35:58pm

re: #255 ggt

Yeah, but most people don't have a rabbit as a pet, or ever have known anyone who did. Not like dogs.

A lot of city folks don't think of rabbits as food, they think of Bugs Bunny.

Cute and fuzzy =/= food to them

263 Gus  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:35:59pm

Getting Immigration Right
by John O'Sullivan

Until the battle recommences, however, if any indignant xenophobe is thinking of writing an exposé of this conspiracy of English immigrants to impose an “un-American” system of immigration law on the American people, Steve Sailer has already come up with the perfect title: “The Protocols of the Elders of Albion.”

I hope people readily see what he's doing here by using the word "xenophobe." Read the whole thing to get a perspective on O'Sullivan. It's basically Southern Strategy with immigration as a major theme. He's using his status as an immigrant hide behind criticism in short rhetorical spasms.

264 Targetpractice  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:36:13pm

re: #259 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

IMHO outrage was mostly about the name.

Oh, most definitely. "Slime" being invoked in way to describe a meat product does not generally inspire confidence.

265 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:37:07pm

Sergey,

fyi--there is a puppy report at #120.

266 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:37:07pm

re: #255 ggt

Yeah, but most people don't have a rabbit as a pet, or ever have known anyone who did. Not like dogs.

A friend of mine has two rabbits.

The whole family is vegetarian, but I think the rabbits almost became stew a couple of months ago. They ate a hole in the couch.

267 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:37:19pm

re: #262 GnarlyGnomeOfGnowledge

A lot of city folks don't think of rabbits as food, they think of Bugs Bunny.

Cute and fuzzy =/= food to them

and deer = bambi

268 Gus  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:38:33pm

Here's another one:

As xenophobes later explained it, Peter Brimelow, an English immigrant, and National Review, a magazine then edited by an English immigrant, had launched the modern American debate on immigration. But then, as the former occasionally quipped, aren’t immigrants supposed to do the dirty jobs that Americans won’t?

What he's doing is using "xenophobe" as a replacement for saying "why you're the racist here" or white racism.

269 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:39:11pm

re: #267 ggt

and deer = bambi

Yeah chances are if there's a famous cartoon or movie with the animal, I'd wager to say its taboo level rises. Unless it's a meat like pork that is heavily ingrained into our diets.

270 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:39:16pm

re: #259 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

IMHO outrage was mostly about the name.

I think the pictures of the industrial process had a lot to do with the disgust. Much like people don't want to think about their burger coming from the death of a cow, they don't want to think about what is entailed to process and package food on an industrial level; it's not pretty, nor does it give you a warm fuzzy feeling about your food (which has been crapped out by an assembly line).

271 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:39:18pm

Going through that list more, I saw the disgusting stuff with Kid Rock.

Seriously, Ted Nugent and Kid Rock are some of the most debauched assholes in Rock and Roll history. How hypocritical do they have to be to have these sort of political beliefs?

272 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:39:23pm

re: #266 SanFranciscoZionist

A friend of mine has two rabbits.

The whole family is vegetarian, but I think the rabbits almost became stew a couple of months ago. They ate a hole in the couch.

I know they can be litter trained and people will let them roam the house. I don't know tho. I'm just not a rabbit kind of person. They can be so skiddish and literally die if they are scared. They also shit alot when they are scared.

Stupid animals too. One Mom made her nesting burrow out my back door for a couple of years. If she couldn't smell the dogs, then something was really wrong. I don't think any of the babies made it because my dogs laid scent down everywhere.

THe floppy earred kind are awfully cute tho.

273 MittDoesNotCompute  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:39:27pm

re: #259 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

IMHO outrage was mostly about the name.

It's a pretty good approximation of what the shit looks like; if people watched the Dirty Jobs episode where he's at a factory that made stuff like hot dogs or bologna or something, they'd likely never touch the stuff again.

Hearing meat being referred to as a "batter", it's enough to make one a bit queasy; I still eat hot dogs though (and brats too).

274 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:39:39pm

re: #265 ggt

Thanks, missed it. YOU LIVE IN A FREAKING ZOO!/

275 MittDoesNotCompute  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:39:57pm

re: #267 ggt

and deer = bambi

Exactly...

276 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:40:36pm

re: #268 Gus

Here's another one:

What he's doing is using "xenophobe" as a replacement for saying "why you're the racist here" or white racism.

I actually think xenophobe is appropriate because it is truly what these whackos are. Anything that is not WASP is majorly scary evil to them.

277 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:41:00pm

re: #274 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

Thanks, missed it. YOU LIVE IN A FREAKING ZOO!/

There is also a Cat Overlord and a Teenage Son. I think it is you and FBV that really seem to enjoy the Puppy reports the most.

278 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:41:03pm

re: #273 GnarlyGnomeOfGnowledge

Yeah, that old adage about people who make sausages not eating them. (Don't know if true.)

279 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:41:44pm

re: #277 ggt

There is also a Cat Overlord and a Teenage Son.

Supports my point!

280 Gus  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:41:57pm

re: #276 ggt

I actually think xenophobe is appropriate because it is truly what these whackos are. Anything that is not WASP is majorly scary evil to them.

That's not what he's doing. He is a WASP.

281 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:42:22pm

re: #266 SanFranciscoZionist

A friend of mine has two rabbits.

The whole family is vegetarian, but I think the rabbits almost became stew a couple of months ago. They ate a hole in the couch.

Are rabbits affectionate with people? Most of the other rodents people keep as pets seem to be, at best, tolerant of handling.

282 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:42:30pm

re: #272 ggt

I know they can be litter trained and people will let them roam the house. I don't know tho. I'm just not a rabbit kind of person. They can be so skiddish and literally die if they are scared. They also shit alot when they are scared.

Stupid animals too. One Mom made her nesting burrow out my back door for a couple of years. If she couldn't smell the dogs, then something was really wrong. I don't think any of the babies made it because my dogs laid scent down everywhere.

THe floppy earred kind are awfully cute tho.

One of them is quite bold, and will occasionally allow himself to be held. The other is nervous, and will, if you hold her, hold really still and wait to be released. When you let her go, the other rabbit will carefully lick all the human smell off her.

They spend a lot of time under the coffee table.

283 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:42:31pm

re: #278 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

Yeah, that old adage about people who make sausages not eating them. (Don't know if true.)

Ever seen puppies in the womb. I've been lucky enough to assist in a couple of c-section puppy births. Look just like sausage --then you realize they are PUPPIES!!!!!

284 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:43:11pm

re: #281 The Ghost of a Flea

Are rabbits affectionate with people? Most of the other rodents people keep as pets seem to be, at best, tolerant of handling.

I think some are, but most of the ones I've met are pretty skitterish. A rat responds better to handling.

285 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:43:20pm

re: #281 The Ghost of a Flea

Are rabbits affectionate with people? Most of the other rodents people keep as pets seem to be, at best, tolerant of handling.

I think they people that have them think so. I know they will cuddle with the family dogs and cats. Ferrets seem to be people friendly too.

I don't do rodents (or eggplant :0, so I can't tell from personal experience.

286 palomino  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:43:42pm

re: #154 darthstar

Almost makes you wonder how miserable it must be for a political party strapped to Mitt Romney for the general election.

I don't think you meant to say the election is in the bag.

But please, Obama supporters, especially those in swing states, don't get overconfident about November. Sure, Romney's a joke. But if the economy is still relatively weak, independent voters could adopt the attitude, "I generally like Obama, but the economy for me blows, so I'll give the other guy a chance, even though he's a douchebag."

287 Targetpractice  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:44:00pm

re: #273 GnarlyGnomeOfGnowledge

It's a pretty good approximation of what the shit looks like; if people watched the Dirty Jobs episode where he's at a hot dog factory, they'd likely never touch one again.

Hearing meat being referred to as a "batter", it's enough to make one a bit queasy; I still eat them though (and brats too).

The last few Thanksgivings, the History Channel's had a show called "American Eats" on. And one of the items on there is making of modern hot dogs. And having seen it, I feel a bit more confident in what I'm eating than I did before.

288 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:44:19pm

re: #261 SanFranciscoZionist

I think the hunters are permitted to stock up the freezer. But the deer are county property, and they use most of the meat to feed the hungry.

I think this is what you're referring to:

From 1976 to 1994, park rangers shot roughly 3,000 nonnative deer in Point Reyes. The Park Service had long maintained that they had donated 90 percent of the carcasses to a homeless shelter in San Francisco, but in 1992 the local newspaper invoked the Freedom of Information Act to show that less than a third of the deer meat actually reached the hungry. The majority of the deer were left to rot where they were shot. Public outcry ensued, and when the new park superintendent took over in 1994, he stopped the culling until an appropriate plan could be formed based on a full environmental impact study. After more than a decade of unchecked population growth, the park this past fall announced the current eradication plan.

I'm pretty sure private hunters are always allowed to keep all the meat they've hunted. At least I've never heard of an enforced donation policy. After all, getting wild, natural food is really the legitimate motive for hunting in the first place, take that away and you're sending people out who just want to kill something.

289 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:44:20pm

re: #280 Gus

That's not what he's doing. He is a WASP.

I need to stay out of this discussion. Been too busy to really keep-up.

290 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:44:37pm

re: #287 Targetpractice

The last few Thanksgivings, the History Channel's had a show called "American Eats" on. And one of the items on there is making of modern hot dogs. And having seen it, I feel a bit more confident in what I'm eating than I did before.

Buy Kosher.

291 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:44:38pm

Then of course there's the fact that the dog meat Obama ate likely did not come from any pet breeds.

292 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:45:36pm

re: #288 goddamnedfrank

I think this is what you're referring to:

I'm pretty sure private hunters are always allowed to keep all the meat they've hunted. At least I've never heard of an enforced donation policy. After all, getting wild, natural food is really the legitimate motive for hunting in the first place, take that away and you're sending people out who just want to kill something.

I think plenty of hunters would gladly donate their time and shot to support a food pantry. I also think it is more than fair that they get to keep some of the meat.

293 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:46:03pm

re: #291 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

Then of course there's the fact that the dog meat Obama ate likely did not come from any pet breeds.

feral dogs caught in the city?

Or are there actually dog ranches?

294 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:46:16pm

re: #273 GnarlyGnomeOfGnowledge

It's a pretty good approximation of what the shit looks like; if people watched the Dirty Jobs episode where he's at a hot dog factory, they'd likely never touch one again.

Hearing meat being referred to as a "batter", it's enough to make one a bit queasy; I still eat them though (and brats too).

Nothing looks good, let alone edible, emerging from an extruder. Everything looks like loose stool.

295 MittDoesNotCompute  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:46:53pm

re: #287 Targetpractice

The last few Thanksgivings, the History Channel's had a show called "American Eats" on. And one of the items on there is making of modern hot dogs. And having seen it, I feel a bit more confident in what I'm eating than I did before.

Yeah, a reputable packer is going to keep stuff clean and use good ingredients in their stuff and that's all well and good, but I was referring how strange the finely ground meat "batter" looks for bologna and hot dogs and the like.

296 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:47:05pm

re: #287 Targetpractice

The last few Thanksgivings, the History Channel's had a show called "American Eats" on. And one of the items on there is making of modern hot dogs. And having seen it, I feel a bit more confident in what I'm eating than I did before.

Our food supply isn't all that bad --and is one of the safest in the world. It just seems really disgusting when you get to the manufacturing part. What it takes to feed millions of people is not so "down on the farm-like"

297 MittDoesNotCompute  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:47:54pm

re: #290 ggt

Buy Kosher.

Loves me a good beef hot dog; Nathan's or Hebrew National. if the price is right.

298 Targetpractice  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:48:13pm

re: #295 GnarlyGnomeOfGnowledge

Yeah, a reputable packer is going to keep stuff clean and use good ingredients in their stuff and that's all well and good, but I was referring how strange the finely ground meat "batter" looks for bologna and hot dogs and the like.

Well yeah, I'll agree with that. Not that it's gonna stop me from eating them. Bologna with a little spicy mustard, slice of swiss, lettuce, and tomato. Good times.

299 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:48:23pm

re: #297 GnarlyGnomeOfGnowledge

Loves me a good beef hot dog; Nathan's or Hebrew National. if the price is right.

Costco has the Hebrew Nationals. Those are good dogs.

300 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:48:43pm

re: #293 ggt

feral dogs caught in the city?

Or are there actually dog ranches?

There are edible breeds, so I'm pretty sure there are some sort of those operations.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

301 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:48:53pm

re: #297 GnarlyGnomeOfGnowledge

Loves me a good beef hot dog; Nathan's or Hebrew National. if the price is right.

COUPONS!!!!!

302 Gus  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:49:05pm

re: #289 ggt

I need to stay out of this discussion. Been too busy to really keep-up.

It's thinly veiled white nationalism. What he's doing is speaking for white rights when he defends himself from "xenophobic" attacks because he's a white immigrant from England. Because he feels that he is "not allowed to speak" because of his status. In large measure he's claiming white victimhood.

303 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:50:05pm

re: #302 Gus

It's thinly veiled white nationalism. What he's doing is speaking for white rights when he defends himself from "xenophobic" attacks because he's a white immigrant from England. Because he feels that he is "not allowed to speak" because of his status. In large measure he's claiming white victimhood.

such bullshit --most of the world is working to emulate "white" culture in the form of democracy.

304 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:50:19pm

re: #302 Gus

Zimmerman is the victim of a xenophobe./

305 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:50:22pm

going up? ----->

306 MittDoesNotCompute  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:50:58pm

re: #299 HappyWarrior

Costco has the Hebrew Nationals. Those are good dogs.

re: #301 ggt

COUPONS!!!

Nearest Costco is about 15-20 miles ffrom me and I'm not a member, but we have a Sam's membership.

Kroger usually runs sales on either Nathan's or Hebrew National, but lately the better buy has been the Oscar Mayer beef dogs.

307 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:51:42pm

re: #293 ggt

feral dogs caught in the city?

Or are there actually dog ranches?

There are people who raise dogs for butchering and sale, or for their home table. Like pigs, their flexible diet means that you can turn scraps into an edible animal.

The general type you see for sale are pariah dogs, that non-breed that turn up all over Asia and the Pacific. Mind you, long ago there actually were dog breeds amongst the Pacific Islanders that were, arguably, bred primarily to be food...the Hawaiian Poi Dog for example...but to my knowledge those have died out.

308 Gus  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:51:45pm

re: #304 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

Zimmerman is the victim of a xenophobe./

Or the plural form.

"You're the real racists xenophobes here!"

309 Varek Raith  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:52:35pm

Xenophobe will have to be redefined when we make first contact with actual aliens.
:P

310 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:52:40pm

re: #308 Gus

Or the plural form.

"You're the real racists xenophobes here!"

You hate racists? You're racist against them!

311 MittDoesNotCompute  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:52:49pm

re: #305 ggt

going up? --->

All aboard...the night train!

312 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:53:19pm

beautiful music upstairs.

313 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:53:25pm

re: #309 Varek Raith

It will still be fear and loathing of "the other".

314 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:53:51pm

re: #312 ggt

beautiful music upstairs.

Nah, the place isn't warmed up yet. /

315 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:54:23pm

since we got back from vacation, the Cat Overlord will not leave me alone. He shunned me for years. Now he is hanging out under my desk.

I actually nudged him today to see if he was still alive. Now he is trying to climb onto the desk.

316 Gus  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:54:42pm

re: #313 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

It will still be fear and loathing of "the other".

John O'Sullivan. Defending America from "the others" as "an other."

"You can't pick on me! I'm a British IMMIGRANT!"

317 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:54:50pm

re: #313 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

It will still be fear and loathing of "the other".

Nice --isn't religion supposed to address this?

318 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:55:23pm

re: #315 ggt

since we got back from vacation, the Cat Overlord will not leave me alone. He shunned me for years. Now he is hanging out under my desk.

I actually nudged him today to see if he was still alive. Now he is trying to climb onto the desk.

Tell him that where you've been they eat cats. If he's smart, should help. /

319 Varek Raith  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:55:35pm

re: #313 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

It will still be fear and loathing of "the other".

In Las Vegas???

320 Eventual Carrion  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:55:46pm

re: #23 Flame Fin Tomini Tang

I wish this issue would go away and we stick to matters that are verifiable, and there are plenty of those.

My understanding is that the "kennel" was shielded from wind and I'm prepared to accept that without evidence to the contrary. For all I know the dog had diarrhea before they left, and nobody can say different.

Just so we are clear here, you believe that Obama was born in the USA?

321 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:55:50pm

re: #317 ggt

Nice --isn't religion supposed to address this?

For some reason it often makes it worse (not always).

322 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:55:59pm

re: #311 GnarlyGnomeOfGnowledge

All aboard...the night train!

[Embedded content]

My favorite "night train" story is actually the part of the Harry Potter series about the Night Bus. If forgot what it was called.

JKRowling had some really kool ideas.

323 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:56:15pm

re: #319 Varek Raith

In Las Vegas???

I hear there are lizards in the bar.

324 Gus  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:56:20pm

This is most of the blather from O'Sullivan:

They, too, had been liberated—in part by the insurgencies Brimelow lists, in part by the most distinguished intellectual rebellion on these issues in recent years. This was Samuel Huntington’s book, Who Are We? exploring the deconstruction of American identity by bilingualism, multiculturalism, and mass immigration. There was an attempt by various academic and multicultural bully-boys to crush Huntington and his thesis with the usual slurs of racism and nativism. But this failed when a list of undeniably distinguished scholars rode gallantly (since some disagreed with him) to his defense. Following that, the topics raised by Huntington became respectable and common fare for such outlets as City Journal and even The Weekly Standard. [A personal note may be in order here: I do not include National Review in this company since the magazine has been strongly in favor of conservative immigration reform since 1992. Contrary to some mythology on this topic, I remain on the magazine’s masthead, I write regularly for it (on immigration among other topics), and I am perfectly content with how it has handled immigration since 1997. In particular, both the magazine and the website played an indispensable role in the defeat of the 2006 and 2007 immigration bills.]

325 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:56:50pm

re: #318 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

Tell him that where you've been they eat cats. If he's smart, should help. /

NO, I'd be scared to tell him that.

326 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:58:08pm

I didn't even realize O'Sullivan was British until now. Knew Derbyshire was but not O'Sullivan. Brimelow of VDARE is British too right?

327 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:58:45pm

re: #324 Gus

This is most of the blather from O'Sullivan:

So, let me get this straight. A Brit is telling us his verdict on America? What did they run him out of England and FoxDrones was the only place he could find a job?

Like that other guy who is on Fox --drives me crazy.

328 Gus  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:59:02pm

American identity? There used to be pockets of European immigrants that only spoke their native languages. There were ghettos, neighborhoods, reservations, etc. There wasn't a uniquely defined "American identity."

329 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:59:03pm

re: #326 HappyWarrior

Malkin is an immigrant too.

330 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:59:42pm

re: #329 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

Malkin is an immigrant too.

Like RC Converts & xsmokers--newbies can be the worst.

331 Gus  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 10:59:48pm

re: #326 HappyWarrior

I didn't even realize O'Sullivan was British until now. Knew Derbyshire was but not O'Sullivan. Brimelow of VDARE is British too right?

Yes. I think Derbyshire was also an illegal at one point. I'd have to check.

332 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 11:00:08pm

re: #329 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

Malkin is an immigrant too.

That's right.

333 Gus  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 11:00:14pm

re: #329 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

Malkin is an immigrant too.

I thought she was an anchor baby?

334 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 11:00:27pm

re: #331 Gus

Yes. I think Derbyshire was also an illegal at one point. I'd have to check.

He was- he even admitted it.

335 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 11:00:59pm

re: #334 HappyWarrior

He was- he even admitted it.

LOL

336 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 11:01:20pm

re: #330 ggt

Like RC Converts & xsmokers--newbies can be the worst.

Actually I think that's true of any convert. You know what they said about the Normans who settled in Ireland? That they became more Irish than the Irish themselves.

337 Gus  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 11:01:51pm

re: #335 ggt

LOL

It is pretty ironic in many ways. I too am an immigrant.

338 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 11:01:56pm

re: #327 ggt

So, let me get this straight. A Brit is telling us his verdict on America? What did they run him out of England and FoxDrones was the only place he could find a job?

Like that other guy who is on Fox --drives me crazy.

So, if someone from ultra-conservative Uganda came here and gave a verdict --would that be OK?

339 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 11:02:38pm

re: #336 HappyWarrior

Actually I think that's true of any convert. You know what they said about the Normans who settled in Ireland? That they became more Irish than the Irish themselves.

Ale and wiskey can have that effect.

340 Gus  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 11:04:39pm

He mentioned Samuel P. Huntington's book:

Who Are We and immigration

Huntington's last book, Who Are We? The Challenges to America's National Identity, was published in May 2004. Its subject is the meaning of American national identity and the possible cultural threat posed to it by large-scale Latino immigration, which Huntington warns could "divide the United States into two peoples, two cultures, and two languages".

341 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 11:04:42pm

re: #339 ggt

Ale and wiskey can have that effect.

Yep. I think I've actually witnessed the convert's zeal with a guy I kind of know. Converted from Baptist to RCC. Clearly loves being RCC and it seems to make him happy so I guess more power to him but he's gosh awfully defensive of the RCC to the point where those of who like me who were baptized RCC have to have him tone it down.

342 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 11:05:45pm

re: #341 HappyWarrior

Yep. I think I've actually witnessed the convert's zeal with a guy I kind of know. Converted from Baptist to RCC. Clearly loves being RCC and it seems to make him happy so I guess more power to him but he's gosh awfully defensive of the RCC to the point where those of who like me who were baptized RCC have to have him tone it down.

They seem to be needing a group identity and really don't get that those of us who were raised in it think they are nuts for converting.

:0

343 HappyWarrior  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 11:09:12pm

re: #342 ggt

They seem to be needing a group identity and really don't get that those of us who were raised in it think they are nuts for converting.

:0

That's been my observations of converts. It kind of amuses me. But we're all on our own journey in some way of form whether it be spiritual or secular.

344 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 11:11:18pm

re: #292 ggt

I think plenty of hunters would gladly donate their time and shot to support a food pantry. I also think it is more than fair that they get to keep some of the meat.

If it's truly a donation sure, but that implies free will. If the argument is that an agreement to give up a certain percentage of the meat should be a legal precondition to paying for and acquiring a deer tag then I've got a problem with it. Mainly that it would create another incentive to poach for the hunter who's only goal is to feed themselves and their family. I'd rather just raise taxes.

345 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 11:12:15pm

OK, now I'm upstairs.

346 Gus  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 11:13:10pm

re: #340 Gus

He mentioned Samuel P. Huntington's book:

Bzzt...

Hypocrisy, double standards, and "but nots" are the price of universalist pretensions. Democracy is promoted, but not if it brings Islamic fundamentalists to power; nonproliferation is preached for Iran and Iraq, but not for Israel; free trade is the elixir of economic growth, but not for agriculture; human rights are an issue for China, but not with Saudi Arabia; aggression against oil-owning Kuwaitis is massively repulsed, but not against non-oil-owning Bosnians. Double standards in practice are the unavoidable price of universal standards of principle —— The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order. -- Samuel_P._Huntington

347 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 11:14:32pm

re: #344 goddamnedfrank

If it's truly a donation sure, but that implies free will. If the argument is that an agreement to give up a certain percentage of the meat should be a legal precondition to paying for and acquiring a deer tag then I've got a problem with it. Mainly that it would create another incentive to poach for the hunter who's only goal is to feed themselves and their family. I'd rather just raise taxes.

No, it's have to be regular hunters. I don't think any of the guys I know would have a problem with it. I was thinking that it would be something like you get to hunt more than your legal alotment, but you have to donate the overage.

There would be a pre-determined alotment etc. I mean, the hunter would only pay to slaughter the one he kept --food pantry or whoever would have to pay for the what they get.

I'm sure it's been worked-out before by others better versed in the subject than me.

348 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 17, 2012 11:15:59pm

re: #346 Gus

Bzzt...

old meme/paranoia of your own tools being used against you.

twists and turns, freaking psychotic thinking, IMHO.

349 wheat-dogg  Wed, Apr 18, 2012 5:04:14am

I'm coming late to the party, because of work and time zone differences. Considering all the comments about Mitt's psychological profile, I feel compelled to say something.

Observation 1: Mitt resembles a few of the very privileged people I met while at my Ivy League uni: completely inauthentic and totally self-absorbed. By this I mean they are charming and glib, but leave you with the impression that all their polite manners were drilled into them as children at home and at boarding school. Underneath that polished exterior lies someone who would not think twice about stabbing you in the back (figuratively speaking) if it meant he or she could benefit from it. Think of Iago as a literary prototype.

Observation 2: Mitt fails at the charming and glib part of #1. He tries, but fails hopelessly. In addition, he seems utterly clueless that his malaprops and weak attempts of "relating to people" are just not working. He's really good at maintaining the outwardly cool and in-control appearance, so any self-doubt, if it exists, must be suppressed pretty deeply.

Observation 3: His lack of awareness of his dog's plight, and misapprehension of why many are upset by the callous treatment of his family pet speaks volumes about his self-absorption and cluelessness. Regardless of what kind of kennel the dog was in, carrying the animal on the roof of one's car is inconceivably stupid. Words fail me.

Conclusion: I don't trust him one iota. It's not his politics, which change with the wind, that puts me off particularly. It's the creepiness factor I get whenever I see or read about him. The man is too plastic and seemingly in control all the time, which makes me wonder what he's like in private life. Does he get angry? Throw things? Cry? Laugh? Act goofy (deliberately, I mean)? Or are all those emotions suppressed behind his plastic persona? Sooner or late, repressed emotions/ behavior find a way out, sometimes in a bad way. He supposedly doesn't drink, doesn't whore around, doesn't smoke. So, what's left to release pent-up emotions and self-doubts? With all the well known pressures of a presidency, how long would it be before Romneybot 2.0 had a BSOD and went wacko?

350 sean6886politik  Wed, Apr 18, 2012 9:15:41am

But Ann RMoney, an expert on working Mothers, the economy and what women want, said the dog, "loved it".

351 JEA62  Wed, Apr 18, 2012 9:35:36am

Honestly, can we finally stop with this? We're electing the next leader of the free word. I honestly don't give a ___ that the damn dog rode on the roof of the car or that Obama ate dog meat at 9.

This is freakin' kindergarten level ___.

352 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Apr 18, 2012 9:37:08am

re: #351 JEA62

Honestly, can we finally stop with this? We're electing the next leader of the free word. I honestly don't give a ___ that the damn dog rode on the roof of the car or that Obama ate dog meat at 9.

This is freakin' kindergarten level ___.

You think the dog incident doesn't characterize Romney in any way?

353 wheat-dogg  Wed, Apr 18, 2012 10:45:05pm

re: #351 JEA62

Honestly, can we finally stop with this? We're electing the next leader of the free word. I honestly don't give a ___ that the damn dog rode on the roof of the car or that Obama ate dog meat at 9.

This is freakin' kindergarten level ___.

It's not just the dog on the roof incident. It's the Romneys' explanation and rationalization of the incident that's disturbing. As some others have said here, if Mitt had said, "Well, it was a dumb mistake, and I'll never do it again," I'd cut him some slack. Instead, he acts like it was a perfectly reasonable thing to do; the only bad part was (chuckle!) having to stop halfway to hose down the dog and the kennel.

By the way, he was a grown man of 42ish at the time. He can and should be held accountable for poor judgment.

As for Obama, who was 9 at the time, he ate dog in a part of the world where it is acceptable to eat dog. He didn't slaughter and cook the dog himself.

Of course, if he had eaten -- or better yet, shot and field-dressed -- a moose, it would be just fine, right?


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