Ted Nugent Booted From Fort Knox Concert

Crazy wingnut moron stance wearing thin
Wingnuts • Views: 32,649

Caveman guitarist Ted Nugent has been dropped from the Fort Knox annual summer concert lineup.

The artist lineup for the Fort Knox annual summer concert scheduled for June 23 no longer includes right-wing rocker Ted Nugent.

Co-headliners REO Speedwagon and Styx remain scheduled to perform. However, after learning of Nugent’s recent public comments about the president of the United States, Fort Knox leadership decided to cancel his performance on the installation.

Army Entertainment and the Fort Knox Directorate of Family and Morale, Welfare and Recreation remain committed to carrying out the June 23 concert, and the possibility exists that a replacement will be selected.

Nugent was scheduled to be the concert’s opening act.

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566 comments
1 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 7:08:23pm

Has much more to do with his becoming controversial than anything else. Still, it's a good thing to hear of him not being allowed to perform for soldiers there.

Hoo-ah! :)

2 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 7:10:52pm

'Dance'

Youtube Video

Kids today with their violent rock and roll. Git off mah Lawn!
3 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 7:13:31pm

It was insane to schedule a draft dodger to perform for soldiers in the first place, let alone one who claims he told candidates Barak Obama and Hilary Clinton to "suck on my machine gun." What in the hell were they thinking?

4 elisabeth  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 7:14:54pm

Cue the wailing about denying Nugent his free speech rights ...

5 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 7:17:12pm

I'm really surprised he hasn't actually shot himself in the foot yet.

He's done it virtually so many times.

6 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 7:18:08pm

re: #4 elisabeth

Cue the wailing about denying Nugent his free speech rights ...

Free speech does not know, nor has it ever, included the right to threaten to kill someone.

Unless you're Achmed the Dead Terrorist.

7 Lidane  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 7:19:22pm

re: #3 goddamnedfrank

What in the hell were they thinking?

He's a gun nut and a "patriot" and a right-winger. That's all they were thinking about, at least until Ted opened his pie hole.

8 Eclectic Infidel  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 7:19:59pm

re: #7 Lidane

Pie hole. Love it, Lidane. :)

9 Targetpractice  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 7:20:51pm

re: #4 elisabeth

Cue the wailing about denying Nugent his free speech rights ...

Which will be no less hypocritical when compared to the tarring and feathering of the Dixie Chicks.

10 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 7:23:31pm

re: #7 Lidane

He's a gun nut and a "patriot" and a right-winger. That's all they were thinking about, at least until Ted opened his pie hole.

No, they were thinking - "classic rock musician on tour, available, fits in well with Styx & REO. Cheap too". Having seen those kinds of shows as a trooper, I can guarantee all they want is a cheap band the kids will enjoy. Once he opened his mouth and became controversial, he was no longer "cheap enough" because controversy is far worse than spending money.

11 elisabeth  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 7:31:01pm

re: #6 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Many on the Right don't consider exceptions and besides Nugent was using a metaphor. Mmmmhmmm

And now I'm off to watch Jeff Dunham.

12 jaunte  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 7:38:56pm
Nugent has released more than 34 albums, and has sold a career total of 30 million records.
...
In the late 1960s, prior to his first marriage, Nugent fathered a boy, Ted (Mann) and a girl, whom he gave up for adoption in infancy.
...
In 2005 Nugent was involved in a legal battle for not paying enough child support for a child he had out of wedlock in 1995. It was finally resolved when Nugent was ordered to pay $3,500 in child support.
...
In May 2005, he announced he was "getting real close to deciding to run" for governor of Michigan in 2006, while in 2007, he talked about running for that office in 2010. During the latter period, he stated, "Michigan was once a great state. Michigan was a state that rewarded the entrepreneur and the most productive, work-ethic families of the state. Now the pimps and the whores and the welfare brats are basically the state's babies."
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Deadbeat dad endorses Romney, impresses social conservatives.

13 Gus  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 7:41:24pm

re: #12 jaunte

Deadbeat dad endorses Romney, impresses social conservatives.

Vietnam War shit encrusted draft dodger; former druggie; likes 13 years olds and Girl Scouts; threatens president; deadbeat dad; married his daughter I mean legal guardian; etc. Yep. Family values alright.

14 Gus  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 7:44:55pm

re: #13 Gus

Vietnam War shit encrusted draft dodger; former druggie; likes 13 years olds and Girl Scouts; threatens president; deadbeat dad; married his daughter I mean legal guardian; etc. Yep. Family values alright.

Scott Walker Praises Ted Nugent

15 Kragar  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 7:45:17pm

re: #13 Gus

Vietnam War shit encrusted draft dodger; former druggie; likes 13 years olds and Girl Scouts; threatens president; deadbeat dad; married his daughter I mean legal guardian; etc. Yep. Family values alright.

Why do you hate back country inbreeding druggie Americans?

16 Gus  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 7:46:53pm

re: #15 Kragar

Why do you hate back country inbreeding druggie Americans?

You mean Mr. Theodore Anthony Nugent from Detroit, Michigan?

//

17 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 7:48:35pm

re: #16 Gus

You mean Mr. Theodore Anthony Nugent, Esquire, from Detroit, Michigan?

//

ftfy

18 jaunte  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 7:48:47pm

re: #14 Gus

"The best part was I got to meet Ted Nugent before he played the National Anthem on his guitar," Walker said with a wistful smile.

He's a fine patriotic millionaire guitarist, who had to be sued to give his child $3,500 in support. Whattaguy.

19 Kragar  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 7:49:05pm

re: #16 Gus

You mean Mr. Theodore Anthony Nugent from Detroit, Michigan?

//

Why did California get earthquakes and Michigan get Nugent?

California got first pick.

20 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 7:57:13pm

GOP= Guilty of Projection. Every last one of them.
I paint with a broad brush because the silence of the right wingers who should object to this behavior is deafening...
Oh...and piss on Ted Nugent. I hope he falls in a hole.

21 freetoken  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 8:00:30pm

The wingnuts certainly will make this an outrage about how Obama is forcing the Army to shut down free speech, or something...

22 Targetpractice  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 8:04:42pm

re: #21 freetoken

The wingnuts certainly will make this an outrage about how Obama is forcing the Army to shut down free speech, or something...

That's assuming they actually give enough of a damn about Ted Nugent to care.

23 freetoken  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 8:05:38pm

Completely off topic (unless one wants to create a metaphor out of vampires to describe Nugent):


"Dark Shadows" star Jonathan Frid dies at 87

24 freetoken  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 8:08:00pm

Also off topic (unless one wants to describe Nugent as some sort of alternative form of life) - big science news of the day:

DNA alternative created by scientists

Scientists have created artificial genetic material that can store information and evolve over generations in a similar way to DNA – a feat expected to drive research in medicine and biotechnology, and shed light on how molecules first replicated and assembled into life billions of years ago.

Ultimately, the creation of alternatives to DNA could enable scientists to make novel forms of life in the laboratory.

[...]

25 Mocking Jay  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 8:09:04pm

Damn, Stewart just took Dick Morris to the woodshed.

26 Lidane  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 8:09:25pm

re: #21 freetoken

The Freepers have reacted as expected:

Wonder what the repercussions of this will be?
---

Executive retaliation, pathetic at that.
---

Army leaders SUCK as does Obozo.
---

Shades of Limbaugh..
---

Hmmm. Isn’t the Fort Knox Directorate of Family and Morale, Welfare and Recreation supposed to take steps to SUPPORT the morale of the troops?
---

I figure the result will be that Deadly Tedly goes out and throws some lead downrange, and then kills a tasty animal with his bow.

I love Nuge, especially when he shoots his mouth. Nothing wrong with what he said, we may all end up in the slammer or six feet down if Obammy gets another four.
---

Perhaps they should book Screwy Louie Farakahn instead...
---

See what the truth gets you.

Their loss.
I just gained more respect for Ted and telling it like it is.

Afterall, wr-ight, jak-sin and notso-sharp-tun gets away with free speech... for now.
---

I'd bet the farm that the directors of the Ft Knox entertainment committee are Obama supporters and of a diverse race. I created a firestorm when I was on active duty and complained that the Airmens’ Club catered only to the black airmen and didn't have a night for we country rednecks.
---

Nugent is supporting the coward from KOLOB.
He's off base on that point alone.

The skinny Kenyan communist muslim faggot in the WH that is responsible for the continued depression and is an albatross around the neck of the communist democrat party of the USA is less of a threat than a mormon bishop who pretends to carry the banner of conservatism.

FUMR

The KOLOBIAN must be kept out of the WH.
---

The price one pays for honesty. He probably needed the gig, too. All the more power to him if he doesn’t cave to any powers that be - that means he’s truly honest, everything he says is what he truly believes.

27 jaunte  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 8:09:52pm

re: #25 Oblivious Troll

Damn, Stewart just took Dick Morris to the woodshed.

That was some amazingly ripe cynicism.

28 Targetpractice  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 8:10:18pm

re: #24 freetoken

Also off topic (unless one wants to describe Nugent as some sort of alternative form of life) - big science news of the day:

DNA alternative created by scientists

Could this mean that it's plausible that beings evolved on other planets with something other than DNA?

29 jaunte  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 8:11:51pm

re: #24 freetoken

In an accompanying article, Gerald Joyce, of the Scripps Research Institute in La Jolla, California, says the study heralds an "era of synthetic genetics, with implications for exobiology [which deals with extraterrestrial life], biotechnology and understanding life itself". He adds: "Construction of genetic systems based on alternative chemical platforms may ultimately lead to the synthesis of novel forms of life."

Zombie Skynet awakens!

30 Targetpractice  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 8:12:06pm

re: #26 Lidane

The Freepers have reacted as expected:

*sigh* Why must the Freepers continue to trample on my faith in humanity?

31 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 8:12:58pm

re: #26 Lidane

Oh, funny nick they have for Romney - Kolobian. A play on Kenyan but with a Mormon twist.

32 freetoken  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 8:13:50pm

Not exactly off topic - certainly we would want to clone Ted when he is on his deathbed, no?

World's first handmade cloned transgenic sheep born in China

Chinese scientists from BGI, the world's largest genomics organization, together with the Institute of Genetics and Developmental Biology, Chinese Academy of Sciences (CAS), and Shihezi University, Xinjiang province, made a significant breakthrough in animal cloning. The world's first transgenic sheep produced with a simplified technique, handmade cloning, was successfully born at 12:16pm, March 26, 2012, in Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, China. The project was also supported by the Animal Science Academy of Xinjiang.

[...]

The project has been launched more than two years ago. Apart from the general inefficiency of cloning (only a small fraction of the reconstructed embryos develop to healthy offspring) cloners had to overcome additional difficulties including the special climate and compromised laboratory environment with very basic instruments. Accordingly, an innovative simplified technique called Handmade Cloning (HMC) was used, with less demand for sophisticated equipment, simplified procedures, lower costs and higher production efficiency. In 2009, donor cells were collected from a Chinese Merino sheep, and by genetic manipulation a transgenic cell line was established. After numerous attempts, the HMC system for sheep cloning was successfully established in October 2011. The transfer of the produced embryos has eventually led to the present achievement.

The genetic modification may result in improved meat quality by increasing the unsaturated fatty acid content. According to the researchers, the gene associated with ω-3 poly unsaturated fatty acid (ω-3PUFA) was successfully transferred into Peng Peng. [...]

Since HMC was introduced in 2001, offspring of several important species including cattle, pig, goat and water buffalo have been produced by using this technique. The procedure may contribute to efforts to save endangered species and to produce medicines for human diseases through transgenic animals.

[...]

Imagine a universe of Ted Nugent clones...

Youtube Video
33 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 8:15:26pm

re: #10 William Barnett-Lewis

No, they were thinking - "classic rock musician on tour, available, fits in well with Styx & REO. Cheap too". Having seen those kinds of shows as a trooper, I can guarantee all they want is a cheap band the kids will enjoy. Once he opened his mouth and became controversial, he was no longer "cheap enough" because controversy is far worse than spending money.

Youtube Video
34 freetoken  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 8:17:09pm

re: #28 Targetpractice

Could this mean that it's plausible that beings evolved on other planets with something other than DNA?

Unsure, but at least they've demonstrated that ribose and deoxyribose aren't the only compounds that can work, to hold together long strings of self-reproducing nucleotides.

35 Targetpractice  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 8:17:18pm

re: #32 freetoken

Not exactly off topic - certainly we would want to clone Ted when he is on his deathbed, no?

World's first handmade cloned transgenic sheep born in China

Imagine a universe of Ted Nugent clones...

[Embedded content]

No thank you. Really, I'm flattered, but no.

36 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 8:19:05pm

re: #33 Dark_Falcon

[Embedded content]

Awesom-o./

37 Lidane  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 8:23:03pm

re: #33 Dark_Falcon

Youtube Video
38 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 8:23:46pm

Well, Styx is one the two 'name' acts remaining at the concert and if I'd post something by REO Speedwagon i'd have earned a number of (well-deserved) downdings.

39 jaunte  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 8:24:27pm

Gonna need a bigger eyeroll.

GOP Senate Candidate Raese Compares No-Smoking Sign To Jewish-Star Patches

Republican businessman John Raese, who is running yet again for the Senate from West Virginia, has now stepped up the tea party-style rhetoric: comparing no-smoking signs to the Star of David patches that Jews were forced to wear on their clothes in Nazi Germany.

While he was at it, Raese went further back in time and compared President Franklin D. Roosevelt to Cuban strongman Fidel Castro.

40 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 8:27:27pm

re: #38 Dark_Falcon

Well, Styx is one the two 'name' acts remaining at the concert and if I'd post something by REO Speedwagon i'd have earned a number of (well-deserved) downdings.

Once upon a time as a private, I had to go to one of these shows. I'd have done just about anything for a band as good as Styx to have been there. Even Nugent would have been better than the utterly horrific no-name bands they had that day.

Worst of all, though, it was a dry show. Argh!!!!

41 Mocking Jay  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 8:30:33pm

Colombian prostitutes?

42 Lidane  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 8:33:04pm

re: #39 jaunte

I spent eight goddamn years getting into arguments and flame wars with hysterical moonbats on my side of the aisle that compared Dubya to Hitler because no matter how much I hated his policies, I had enough common sense and historical perspective to know he wasn't a genocidal maniac or totalitarian despot.

Now the same RWNJ morons that squealed like stuck pigs when the moonbats pulled out the "Bush = Hitler" garbage have no problem comparing Barack Obama to him, or to Stalin, or to whatever other dictator they want to focus on. WTF.

43 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 8:38:47pm

re: #31 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

Oh, funny nick they have for Romney - Kolobian. A play on Kenyan but with a Mormon twist.

Equal opportunity bigots. Grrrreat!

44 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 8:40:26pm

re: #43 SanFranciscoZionist

Equal opportunity bigots. Grrreat!

Yeah, how do we know he wasn't born on Kolob? Nirth sirtifikit plz!!/

45 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 8:42:47pm

re: #41 Oblivious Troll

Colombian prostitutes?

LOL, well done! I love a good 'Slick Willie' dig.

46 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 8:43:06pm

Hindsight is 20/20, I could've said hello before ranting, but this stuff being flung by the RW is starting to wear on my nerves. These people really worry me...
,

47 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 8:55:29pm

I think I killed the thread. Sorry. :(

48 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 8:57:07pm

re: #47 OhNoZombies!

I think I killed the thread. Sorry. :(

I'm calling the cops.

49 Kronocide  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 9:00:01pm

I keep thinking it can't be any worse. Repeatedly, I'm wrong.

The Zombie Apocalypse started a few years ago. Instead of frothing at the mouth and eating your brainz they regurgitate dog jokes and attack reasonable people with vitriol typical of 12 yr olds.

Don't let them infect you.

50 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 9:00:08pm

re: #48 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

They'll never catch me !

51 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 9:02:23pm

re: #50 OhNoZombies!

They'll never catch me !

Eh, you have nothing to fear. Just say that the thread attacked you and you're under SYG's protection.

52 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 9:05:05pm

Well, it appears Breivik is solidifying the need of the Norwegian state to forvare him into oblivion.

Anders Behring Breivik, the perpetrator of the 2011 Norway attacks, says he planned to behead former Norwegian Prime Minister Gro Harlem Brundtland and post the footage on the internet.

53 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 9:05:43pm

re: #52 ProGunLiberal

Well, it appears Breivik is solidifying the need of the Norwegian state to forvare him into oblivion.

Interesting how counter-Jihad morphed into Jihad, no?

54 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 9:06:06pm

re: #53 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

Well, OK, Taliban version of Jihad.

55 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 9:06:34pm

re: #54 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

Yep, you are right on that.

56 Digital Display  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 9:06:58pm

Rainy night in Oklahoma..Went to a brewhouse tonight on the West side of Norman..Pretty good food and Beer..OK I'll give them a shout out..
[Link: bjsbrewhouse.com...]
Hope everyone is doing OK

57 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 9:08:07pm

re: #51 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

Ha! Will do!

58 CuriousLurker  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 9:19:42pm

re: #53 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

Interesting how counter-Jihad morphed into Jihad, no?

On some level they seem to admire and want to emulate them. It's truly bizarre. Nietzsche and the abyss.

59 Kronocide  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 9:20:12pm

I went to a brewery too. And had thai chicken pizza.

60 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 9:20:45pm

re: #58 CuriousLurker

Something I must keep in mind.

61 Digital Display  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 9:23:08pm

re: #59 Kronocide

I went to a brewery too. And had thai chicken pizza.

You know I hate you right? Hi Big Papa!
How goes it?

62 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 9:24:00pm

re: #61 HoosierHoops

I spaced out and forgot to invite you to a Christian-Muslim Forum tonight.

I be really, really sorry.

63 Kronocide  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 9:24:31pm

re: #61 HoosierHoops

You know I hate you right? Hi Big Papa!
How goes it?

Howzit braddah!

Full of pizza and beer, I'm procrastinating on doing some contract work.

Maybe I should have a glass of shiraz to get motivated.

64 Kronocide  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 9:26:44pm

re: #61 HoosierHoops

You know I hate you right? Hi Big Papa!
How goes it?

You grew up in Napa so quit yer bitchin. We'll call it even from here on out.

65 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 9:26:54pm

Well, now I feel a bit better about things. Someone on SA said something that should have been glaringly obvious before.

So he did nothing but sleep and play world of warcraft for 16 hours a day..for an entire year!

Says it was necessary to isolate himself to do what he did, that he couldn't have friends. God drat, is he delusional and pathetic..

66 Targetpractice  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 9:27:55pm

re: #65 ProGunLiberal

Well, now I feel a bit better about things. Someone on SA said something that should have been glaringly obvious before.

Geez, and I thought I was bad for spending most of two days beating Mass Effect.

67 Digital Display  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 9:29:31pm

re: #63 Kronocide

Howzit braddah!

Full of pizza and beer, I'm procrastinating on doing some contract work.

Maybe I should have a glass of shiraz to get motivated.

Yea..Just another shitty day in paradise big papa..:)

68 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 9:29:38pm

re: #66 Targetpractice

Yeah. If this is what it takes to get into that mindset, then maybe things won't be that bad when/if Obama wins in November.

69 CuriousLurker  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 9:32:07pm

re: #60 ProGunLiberal

Something I must keep in mind.

Yep, that would be a good idea. Also this:

The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently.
—The Dawn, Sec. 297

I can tell you from experience that the best way to learn is to seek those who think differently as it will remove the (dangerous) tendency to become self-satisfied & complacent. Being challenged will make you examine WHY you believe what you believe. That's a very important thing to know—if you don't know, then you're nothing more than a parrot mindlessly repeating what he heard someone else say.

70 Digital Display  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 9:33:25pm

re: #64 Kronocide

You grew up in Napa so quit yer bitchin. We'll call it even from here on out.

LOL
I'm moving back home this summer or fall to my folks lakehouse..Winston and I are going out in the boat every morning to fish..God Willing..

71 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 9:33:53pm

re: #69 CuriousLurker

There is a Conservative Catholic friend of mine giving me criticism for my viciousness against the Saudi State.

She is eroding away the edge I have. Slowly, but surely.

72 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 9:35:30pm

The more I information I read on Something Awful's thread on the trial of Breivik, the more pathetic he seems.

There is way to much for me to quote however. :(

73 Lidane  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 9:39:22pm

re: #72 ProGunLiberal

Ruthlessly killing dozens of people for no reason made him pathetic. All his attempts at justification since then only reinforce the point.

Breivik is no different than any other terrorist scum. His terrorism was just of the far right fascist variety.

74 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 9:39:31pm

Also, apparently the word for "Computer Games" in Norwegian is "Dataspill"

Also this:

Also blames EU for making it hard to import explosives so he is forced to shoot people instead of bombing them.

The EU deserves criticisms for a number of things. Not this though. Good Job on restrictions there, EU!

75 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 9:41:46pm

re: #73 Lidane

Right. I didn't an obsessive, video game obsessed neckbeard-y character though.

It's the best way for me to describe why he seems so pathetic.

76 Lidane  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 9:49:20pm

re: #75 ProGunLiberal

There are a lot of video game obsessed neckbeards in the world. Most of them don't mow down dozens of people for no reason.

The video games are a red herring, IMO. He was a batshit crazy fanatic before he cut himself off from the world and started playing video games obsessively, and he was a batshit crazy fanatic afterwards, as his trial shows.

77 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 9:52:16pm

So, what will they do with him after the trial? Life in prison?

78 freetoken  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 9:55:43pm

re: #77 OhNoZombies!

So, what will they do with him after the trial? Life in prison?

I thought I read somewhere that the maximum sentence is 21 years, after which he has to be evaluated again to see if he would still be a threat to society.

79 Lidane  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 9:57:51pm

re: #78 freetoken

I thought I read somewhere that the maximum sentence is 21 years, after which he has to be evaluated again to see if he would still be a threat to society.

I would think in his case that society would also be a threat to him. He killed 77 people for no reason except his own anti-Islamic, fascist delusions of a glorious revolution. I'd imagine that there are people who will not forgive or forget what he's done.

It might end up that the Norwegian government keeps him imprisoned both because he's a terrorist asshole and because he would be a target for retaliation if he ever got released.

80 Kragar  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 9:57:57pm

re: #78 freetoken

I thought I read somewhere that the maximum sentence is 21 years, after which he has to be evaluated again to see if he would still be a threat to society.

21 years for a prison sentence. If they lock him away because they decide he's insane, its indefinite.

81 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 9:58:02pm

re: #77 OhNoZombies!

If found insane, he will be committed to a mental hospital until they think he is better. After that, if the Norwegian Ministry of Justice thinks he is still a threat, he will be held in 5 years increments until satisfied.

If found sane, he will be sentenced to an automatic 21 years in Prison. Then, the Ministry of Justice can hold him for additional 5 year terms after that if he is deemed a threat to society.

TL:DR-He will never leave prison. Alive at least.

82 Kronocide  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 9:59:27pm
Sarah Palin on Thursday reacted to the revelation that a Secret Service agent in the Colombia prostitution scandal had been in her security detail during the 2008 presidential campaign and had posted photos of himself with her on Facebook, stating in the comments that he was "checking her out."

"Well check this out, bodyguard, you're fired," Palin said during an interview with Fox News' Greta Van Susteren. "I hope his wife ... sends him to the doghouse -- as long as he's not eating the dog, along with his former boss."

Sarah Palin, leading Atavist philosopher

83 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 9:59:56pm

re: #78 freetoken

I thought I read somewhere that the maximum sentence is 21 years, after which he has to be evaluated again to see if he would still be a threat to society.

To which the answer, one presumes, will be yes. They're never going to let him go again.

84 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 10:00:33pm

re: #82 Kronocide

All I see in her statement is "DERP DERP DERP"

85 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 10:02:05pm

I understand that Scandinavian prisons are very civilized. I'd love to let some poor schmuck we've got for nonviolent drug offenses go stay there, and we'll reciprocate by putting Breivik in the deepest pit in Supermax.

International cooperation, and all.

86 Kronocide  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 10:02:11pm

re: #84 ProGunLiberal

All I see in her statement is "DERP DERP DERP"

I don't agree. She seems to be closer to 'At first I was, like, Derp, but then I was, like, Derp.'

Minor quibble.

87 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 10:02:51pm

re: #85 SanFranciscoZionist

I understand that Scandinavian prisons are very civilized. I'd love to let some poor schmuck we've got for nonviolent drug offenses go stay there, and we'll reciprocate by putting Breivik in the deepest pit in Supermax.

International cooperation, and all.

Or hey, stick him at Guantanamo. That would be amusing.

88 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 10:04:22pm

re: #85 SanFranciscoZionist

I know this is awful, but the Feds could make money if we offered Supermax facilities to the worst of the worst of other nation's offenders. Breivik is an example for someone we could hold for a one-time fee.

One Human Rights Group noted that Florence, while brutal, stays well within Human Rights Laws lines. We can use this.

89 Kragar  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 10:04:48pm

re: #86 Kronocide

I don't agree. She seems to be closer to 'At first I was, like, Derp, but then I was, like, Derp.'

Minor quibble.

I read it as "Hey, no one is talking about me, so lets make this about ME!"

90 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 10:05:52pm

I don't think there is any punishment that would fit his crimes. He would be some kind of fascist martyr if he died by anyones hand, and I think he can live with what he's done...at least at this point.

SFZ, Guantanamo !!! YES !!!

91 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 10:06:55pm

re: #82 Kronocide

Sarah Palin, leading Atavist philosopher

Admittedly, I would be pissed at the Facebook revelation. If she'd avoided the dog crack, that would have been fine.

92 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 10:12:53pm

re: #70 HoosierHoops

The fishies are quivering in fear!

93 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 10:15:06pm

re: #76 Lidane

As I continue reading, I realize that Breivik is a manchild.

A roid-taking, WoW (and CoD) obsessed, high school dropout, lonely manchild. He just seems so damn pathetic as a human being.

Don't give him the Death Sentence. Doing that will deprive him of the greatest punishment. Realizing his whole life, he has been an utter failure.

94 Kronocide  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 10:15:52pm

Zinger's a wingnut:

Close friend of mine watching a golf tourney in SF. Zinger misses a short putt. As he's walking off the green says 'F-in San Francisco fa***," bites the ball, then throws it.

I'm sure that helps his game.

95 freetoken  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 10:16:58pm

re: #93 ProGunLiberal

Don't give him the Death Sentence.

Norway doesn't do the Death Sentence anyway.

96 Lidane  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 10:17:32pm

re: #93 ProGunLiberal

Norway doesn't have a death penalty. They outlawed it in 1979.

Breivik can beg for the Norwegian government to martyr him all he wants, but it's not going to happen. He's either going to end up in a mental hospital or locked away in prison for the rest of his life.

97 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 10:18:53pm

re: #96 Lidane

re: #95 freetoken

I know, but this pathetic things life would be an argument against it anyways. It would be a release for him. Too good for him.

98 freetoken  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 10:19:09pm

re: #96 Lidane

Norway doesn't have a death penalty. They outlawed it in 1979.

They're trying to make up for a 1000 years of pillaging, raping, and killing their neighbors.

99 Kronocide  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 10:19:27pm

re: #91 SanFranciscoZionist

Admittedly, I would be pissed at the Facebook revelation. If she'd avoided the dog crack, that would have been fine.

Very true. But she can't avoid the dog crack, and can't avoid tying it to Obama. She's not even running for office... yet.

Talk show? News show? The mind reels at the market potential.

100 Kronocide  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 10:21:51pm

There is no possible punishment worthy of his crime. The best that can be done is to learn from him, make sure he doesn't harm anybody else, and try to make sure nobody tries to copycat him.

He should probably be cut off from contact so his fan club can't grow.

101 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 10:25:34pm

re: #98 freetoken

You have a strange definition of neighbors, considering they pillaged, raped, and murdered as far away as the Emirate of Cordoba and the Seljuq Empire

102 Lidane  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 10:26:32pm

re: #100 Kronocide

He should probably be cut off from contact so his fan club can't grow.

There are Supermax-style prisons in the UK, Germany, Denmark, Sweden, and the Netherlands. I wonder if it's possible for Breivik to be incarcerated in one of those if the Norwegian government doesn't have the resources to hold someone so dangerous.

103 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 10:28:51pm

re: #100 Kronocide

Norway's way ahead of you on that one:

Olso - A German woman expressing support for Anders Behring Breivik was denied entry to his trial and has been deported, police said on Thursday, amid reports she claimed to be the Norway gunman's lover.

Fucking around-Norway's Ministry of Justice doesn't do it.

104 CuriousLurker  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 10:30:22pm

re: #79 Lidane

It might end up that the Norwegian government keeps him imprisoned both because he's a terrorist asshole and because he would be a target for retaliation if he ever got released.

He's the Norwegian McVeigh.

I'll never forget seeing the police bring McVeigh out after he was first arrested. There was a huge crowd around wherever it was, and I swear the silent rage & ill-will directed at him, while invisible, was so thick as to be palpable through the TV screen.

There was one guy who roared out, "Fuck you!"—it was uttered with the most bone-chilling unrestrained fury I think I've ever heard. I'm 99.9% sure that if McVeigh had been released for some reason, he wouldn't have survived the first 24 hours.

105 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 10:32:40pm

re: #104 CuriousLurker

If we could find a way to harness the energy from the rage you spoke of, Global Warming would be solved in about 2 months.

106 CuriousLurker  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 10:34:43pm

re: #105 ProGunLiberal

If we could find a way to harness the energy from the rage you spoke of, Global Warming would be solved in about 2 months.

Heh, indeed.

107 CuriousLurker  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 10:35:49pm

Okay, it's getting late here so I'm going to pack it in for the night. Take care, everyone.

108 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 10:39:32pm

re: #106 CuriousLurker

Norway seems to be taking this rather well.

I'll say this. Norway is much tougher than we are as a nation. They took a hit that the US has, in demographic terms, never taken from an ambush or terror attack. In terms of scale, an attack in the US would have to kill 4800+. Norway took a hit on 7/22 that is arguably worse than the hit we took on 9/11. But Norway, it hasn't changed at all.

The US is a bit of a glass cannon. We can hit hard, but we tend to go all tilty very quickly.

109 Targetpractice  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 10:39:46pm

Seems slavery's making a comeback in the South:

Georgia Again Tries To Replace Immigrant Farm Workers With Inmates

110 Kragar  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 10:40:49pm

re: #109 Targetpractice

Seems slavery's making a comeback in the South:

Georgia Again Tries To Replace Immigrant Farm Workers With Inmates

The real fun will be when they start making arrests just so they can get enough manpower in the fields.

111 Targetpractice  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 10:43:52pm

re: #110 Kragar

The real fun will be when they start making arrests just so they can get enough manpower in the fields.

A few of the wingnuts I've spoken with suggested that the "solution" is, you guessed it, to throw folks off the unemployment rolls and direct them to the fields, saying that when people have to choose between working on a farm or living on the streets, they'll be "motivated" to work hard in the fields.

112 Kragar  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 10:46:46pm

re: #111 Targetpractice

A few of the wingnuts I've spoken with suggested that the "solution" is, you guessed it, to throw folks off the unemployment rolls and direct them to the fields, saying that when people have to choose between working on a farm or living on the streets, they'll be "motivated" to work hard in the fields.

Are there no work houses?

113 Kronocide  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 10:47:57pm

re: #111 Targetpractice

A few of the wingnuts I've spoken with suggested that the "solution" is, you guessed it, to throw folks off the unemployment rolls and direct them to the fields, saying that when people have to choose between working on a farm or living on the streets, they'll be "motivated" to work hard in the fields.

That sounds sorta commie to me.

114 Kragar  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 10:48:52pm

The other problem: Who makes the decision which farmers get assistance, in what order, and how many people? Its not like Georgia has a long standing tradition of good ole boy networks and backroom deal or anything like that.

115 Kronocide  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 10:49:37pm
As you may have noticed, the Dems have been off their game lately. Even more than usual, I mean. Well, now it’s official: They’re panicking.

Jim Treacher, 2012

116 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 10:49:58pm

Note to self:
Stay as far away as possible from the Donna-Dixon line.

117 palomino  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 10:51:33pm

re: #94 Kronocide

Zinger's a wingnut:

[Embedded content] Close friend of mine watching a golf tourney in SF. Zinger misses a short putt. As he's walking off the green says 'F-in San Francisco fa***," bites the ball, then throws it.

I'm sure that helps his game.

Golfers tend to be right wingers. A Sports Illustrated poll from last year showed that only about 20% of PGA golfers even trust Obama, much less approve of anything he's done. Insulated from the rest of the world in their country clubs, playing a "sport" that has traditionally been the province of old white rich men, they don't have much empathy for the rest of the world. Azinger is your typical "OMG, don't hurt rich people by raising their taxes 4 percentage points, class warfare!" kind of Republican. Cocooned, living safely in his little bubble.

118 Kronocide  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 10:53:32pm

re: #114 Kragar

The other problem: Who makes the decision which farmers get assistance, in what order, and how many people? Its not like Georgia has a long standing tradition of good ole boy networks and backroom deal or anything like that.

Quite simple: a bidding system based on auction with proceeds going to... oh, snap.

How about a government committee that scrutinizes needs based on merit and family connections/party loyalties... oh, maybe not.

Let me get back to you, I'm going to read What Would the Founding Fathers Do weekly.

119 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 10:54:43pm

re: #115 Kronocide

Had to look the guy up on Wiki. He is a nobody.

120 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 10:55:54pm

When I start laughing at things Peter Griffin says while sitting in the den...alone...
Means it's time to say good night.
Good night. :)

121 Targetpractice  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 10:58:13pm

re: #113 Kronocide

That sounds sorta commie to me.

It's a return to the Gilded Age, one step at a time. The GOP's been at work on it for decades, between their strangling of revenue streams to pay for the social safety net, boxing in unions, and encouraging a massively-lopsided income distribution in favor of the top 1%.

122 palomino  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 11:01:16pm

re: #121 Targetpractice

It's a return to the Gilded Age, one step at a time. The GOP's been at work on it for decades, between their strangling of revenue streams to pay for the social safety net, boxing in unions, and encouraging a massively-lopsided income distribution in favor of the top 1%.

And their biggest success is the canard that if you mention such things, you're engaging in "class warfare", as if anyone who criticizes the top 2% is anti-American. What a load of shit, not surprising that a golfer, in his milieu, would fall for it.

123 Targetpractice  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 11:03:37pm

re: #122 palomino

And their biggest success is the canard that if you mention such things, you're engaging in "class warfare", as if anyone who criticizes the top 2% is anti-American. What a load of shit, not surprising that a golfer, in his milieu, would fall for it.

Or wanting to "punish success" by suggesting that those who have enjoyed the most "success" pay their fair share.

124 freetoken  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 11:05:12pm

Reading through Richard Carrier's review of Ehrman's latest book, it's rather straightforward in its summary:

[...]

But I cannot recommend books that are so full of errors that they will badly mislead and miseducate the reader, and that commit so many mistakes that I have to substantially and extensively correct them. Did Jesus Exist? ultimately misinforms more than it informs, and that actually makes it worse than bad. Like the worst of mythicist literature, you will come away after reading it with more false information in your head than true, and that makes my job as a historian harder, because now I have to fix everything he screwed up. This is why I don’t recommend anyone ever read bad mythicist literature, because it will only fill your head with nonsense that I will have to work harder to correct. Ehrman’s book ironically does much the same thing. Therefore, it officially sucks.

[...]

Succinct.

125 freetoken  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 11:09:26pm

#27 on my all-time greatest selections from serious music:

MP3 Audio
126 Kragar  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 11:19:45pm

re: #125 freetoken

#27 on my all-time greatest selections from serious music:

[Embedded content]

I'll match it with one of the all time great MST3k

Youtube Video

BLAST HARDCHEESE!

127 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 11:28:53pm

re: #125 freetoken

Very nice, new to me, thank you!

128 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 11:36:13pm

re: #98 freetoken

They're trying to make up for a 1000 years of pillaging, raping, and killing their neighbors.

Eh, the Norse were not exactly surrounded by pacifist cultures.

129 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 11:41:14pm

re: #128 SanFranciscoZionist

They were the best at it though. And if you scratch the surface, the brutality is still there. It just takes alot to show. Last time was last year, when Norway went on a Assassination attempt spree, culminating in the deaths of 3 of Qaddafi's Grandchildren. All of whom were under 10.

One of maybe only about 3-4 questionable NATO incidents in the War.

130 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 11:42:27pm

re: #128 SanFranciscoZionist

Eh, the Norse were not exactly surrounded by pacifist cultures.

Brian Boru, on Irish ground
Walked three times the Island round
Norsemen came lookin for a fight
just another Irish Saturday night!

That was Clontarf, when the High King took out the Dublin Viking kingdom for good. One hell of a battle, but damned if I could tell you who the forces of right and goodness were that day--just kings fighting over land.

131 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 11:43:17pm

re: #129 ProGunLiberal

They were the best at it though. And if you scratch the surface, the brutality is still there. It just takes alot to show. Last time was last year, when Norway went on a Assassination attempt spree, culminating in the deaths of 3 of Qaddafi's Grandchildren. All of whom were under 10.

One of maybe only about 3-4 questionable NATO incidents in the War.

There's a deep practicality to Scandinavian culture.

132 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 11:47:10pm

re: #131 SanFranciscoZionist

The practicality looks like psycho. And this comes from a descendant of Scandinavians.

133 Kragar  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 11:56:17pm

Norway killer sharpened aim by playing video game

Horseshit.

134 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 11:57:22pm

re: #133 Kragar

Norway killer sharpened aim by playing video game

Horseshit.

My husband and his gamer friends are beside themselves over this.

It's complete BS, of course, but what to do?

135 Lidane  Thu, Apr 19, 2012 11:57:50pm

re: #110 Kragar

The real fun will be when they start making arrests just so they can get enough manpower in the fields.

You mean they don't do that now? =P

136 Lidane  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 12:00:45am

re: #133 Kragar

Norway killer sharpened aim by playing video game

Horseshit.

Of course it's horseshit. It's just an easy scapegoat.

There are plenty of people around the world who play games like Call of Duty and World of Warcraft and they don't mow down 77 people for no reason.

137 Lidane  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 12:02:45am

re: #134 SanFranciscoZionist

My husband and his gamer friends are beside themselves over this.

It's complete BS, of course, but what to do?

Point out that millions of people around the world play the games that Breivik mentioned, and that they don't go on killing sprees. Point out that people have been blaming entertainment in all its forms -- movies, comic books, music, video games, etc. -- for violent and criminal acts, but that correlation and causation aren't the same thing.

138 Kragar  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 12:05:12am

re: #136 Lidane

Of course it's horseshit. It's just an easy scapegoat.

There are plenty of people around the world who play games like Call of Duty and World of Warcraft and they don't mow down 77 people for no reason.

Placing a target reticle using a mouse and keyboard dont do shit to help build the skills to fire a pistol or rifle. Its like saying playing racing games will prep a driver for the indy 500.

139 Varek Raith  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 12:17:51am

re: #133 Kragar

Norway killer sharpened aim by playing video game

Horseshit.

Heh.
I play Eve, so I can clearly fly a Nasa Shuttle. Or a F-18.
Step aside Air Force, I'll handle Iran by myself.
Yeppers.

140 Targetpractice  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 12:20:34am

re: #133 Kragar

Norway killer sharpened aim by playing video game

Horseshit.

Somewhere in the darkest corner of Florida, Jack Thompson's ears just perked up.

141 Lidane  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 12:25:28am

re: #140 Targetpractice

Somewhere in the darkest corner of Florida, Jack Thompson's ears just perked up.

Too bad he got permanently disbarred years ago. Haha.

142 Targetpractice  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 12:27:43am

re: #141 Lidane

Too bad he got permanently disbarred years ago. Haha.

Considering his nastygram to Valve last year, I don't think the guy's figured out that he no longer scares anybody other than the kid behind the counter at the local 7-11.

143 Decatur Deb  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 12:30:00am

re: #138 Kragar

Placing a target reticle using a mouse and keyboard dont do shit to help build the skills to fire a pistol or rifle. Its like saying playing racing games will prep a driver for the indy 500.

Perhaps if Brevik had used a drone...

'Morning, all. I'm visiting Far Florida, in the wrong timezone and a strange bed. The mission is to replace a toilet and find a Democratic committee that won't waste campaign volunteer hours. Don't know which is messier.

144 Lidane  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 12:32:29am

re: #143 Decatur Deb

Replacing the toilet is straightforward and can be done by anyone who knows how to follow directions. Finding a committee that won't waste time or money? Not so much.

145 Decatur Deb  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 12:34:57am

re: #144 Lidane

Replacing the toilet is straightforward and can be done by anyone who knows how to follow directions. Finding a committee that won't waste time or money? Not so much.

Checked out Pasco County's Dem website--they think Howard Dean is still the DNC chief. Won't be working there.

146 Varek Raith  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 12:37:09am

re: #143 Decatur Deb

Perhaps if Brevik had used a drone...

'Morning, all. I'm visiting Far Florida, in the wrong timezone and a strange bed. The mission is to replace a toilet and find a Democratic committee that won't waste campaign volunteer hours. Don't know which is messier.

Welcome to the evils of the EST zone.

147 Decatur Deb  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 12:38:20am

re: #146 Varek Raith

Welcome to the evils of the EST zone.

Must make coffee...in a newfangled electric machine.

148 Varek Raith  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 12:41:39am

re: #147 Decatur Deb

Must make coffee...in a newfangled electric machine.

At least you weren't transitioning time zones while also changing over to DST.
That'll fuck you up!
XD

149 Mocking Jay  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 12:42:55am

re: #145 Decatur Deb

Checked out Pasco County's Dem website--they think Howard Dean is still the DNC chief. Won't be working there.

Wow. Don't even list a Florida Rep as the head of the DNC. Outstanding.

150 Decatur Deb  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 12:43:12am

re: #148 Varek Raith

At least you weren't transitioning time zones while also changing over to DST.
That'll fuck you up!
XD

Did a lot of that sort of thing. The answer is a cheap Russian wind-up watch.

151 Varek Raith  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 12:43:42am

Lots of sirens.

152 Mocking Jay  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 12:44:49am

re: #151 Varek Raith

Lots of sirens.

What did you do this time?

153 Lidane  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 12:46:49am

Ugh. Insomnia sucks.

I've got class in seven hours. I have things to do. I'm stressed. I'm going to try and get some sleep, but I doubt I'll get much. Later on, Lizards!

154 AK-47%  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 12:47:45am

re: #71 ProGunLiberal

There is a Conservative Catholic friend of mine giving me criticism for my viciousness against the Saudi State.

She is eroding away the edge I have. Slowly, but surely.

There are many who insisit that the "Clash of Cultures" is somehow (Judeo-) Christianity vs. Islam.

It is not. It is fundamentalism vs. enlightenment. And the lines do not correspond exactly to any particular religion.

155 Varek Raith  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 12:49:28am

Awesome
[Link: io9.com...]

156 Decatur Deb  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 12:49:32am

re: #149 Oblivious Troll

Wow. Don't even list a Florida Rep as the head of the DNC. Outstanding.

DIL tells me Pasco Dems are 'kind of rural". Checking elsewhere tomorrow. Maybe Tampa needs hooker/pimp journalist teams for the Repub convention.

157 AK-47%  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 12:50:54am

re: #101 ProGunLiberal

You have a strange definition of neighbors, considering they pillaged, raped, and murdered as far away as the Emirate of Cordoba and the Seljuq Empire

Anywhere they could reach by boat (sea or river) was as good as next door to them...

158 Decatur Deb  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 12:51:33am

re: #153 Lidane

Ugh. Insomnia sucks.

I've got class in seven hours. I have things to do. I'm stressed. I'm going to try and get some sleep, but I doubt I'll get much. Later on, Lizards!

A short nap should hold you till class, when you can get some real sleep.

159 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 12:54:18am

Ohkay, some reading to do: Carrier reviews Ehrman.

160 Decatur Deb  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 12:54:18am

re: #155 Varek Raith

Awesome
[Link: io9.com...]

Going to wait until I can turn up the speakers--the natives are still asleep.

161 AK-47%  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 12:54:44am

re: #109 Targetpractice

Seems slavery's making a comeback in the South:

Georgia Again Tries To Replace Immigrant Farm Workers With Inmates

Was learning this song in memory of Levon Helm, but it fits the topic:

Ain't No More Cane

162 AK-47%  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 1:00:22am

re: #136 Lidane

Of course it's horseshit. It's just an easy scapegoat.

There are plenty of people around the world who play games like Call of Duty and World of Warcraft and they don't mow down 77 people for no reason.

He mowed them down for a reason. A very demented, twisted reason, but one that he documented in 1,400 pages' worth of manifesto...

163 Varek Raith  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 1:00:30am

re: #160 Decatur Deb

Going to wait until I can turn up the speakers--the natives are still asleep.

It's in HD with 5.1 sound. It follows the boosters from launch until they hit the ocean.
It's sweet.

164 Mocking Jay  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 1:01:47am

I still won't want Domino's.

MSNBC Video
165 freetoken  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 1:02:48am

re: #159 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

Ohkay, some reading to do: Carrier reviews Ehrman.

Mentioned it upstream.

What frustrates me about Carrier is that he so quickly dives into the weeds, to pick apart Ehrman, but rarely comes up to see the forest for the trees.

He dings Ehrman for imprecise language or missed references, which is fine for a scholarly exposition of another's work, but in the bigger picture Ehrman may still be correct.

166 AK-47%  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 1:08:40am

re: #164 Oblivious Troll

One of the fondest memories of my childhood was the "Dilly Man" coming by, the Dairy Queen ice-cream truck driver. He used to bang on a large metal bell with a tire iron as he approached.

167 freetoken  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 1:09:39am
MP3 Audio
168 researchok  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 1:20:39am

Morning, all

169 researchok  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 1:21:57am

Have to reboot- stuck on buffering.

170 AK-47%  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 1:27:16am

re: #169 researchok

Have to reboot- stuck on buffering.

bufferin' succotash!

171 researchok  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 1:27:39am

Arghh..still stuck on buffering.

172 researchok  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 1:27:56am

re: #170 Expand Your Ground

Damned right!

173 AK-47%  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 1:31:30am

re: #172 researchok

Damned right!

get Google Chrome, really sped up this site and most others...

174 Decatur Deb  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 1:35:01am

See your reboot and raise you a dead battery. Been plugged into a bad outlet for a couple hours. But the coffee pot worked in the kitchen.

175 researchok  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 1:35:33am

re: #173 Expand Your Ground

I am on Chrome.

176 researchok  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 1:36:10am

re: #174 Decatur Deb

Coffee is like oxygen.

You'll pull trough the tech failures.

177 AK-47%  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 1:37:53am

I had all kinds of headaches trying to get on line this morning

178 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 1:39:49am

re: #165 freetoken

Mentioned it upstream.

What frustrates me about Carrier is that he so quickly dives into the weeds, to pick apart Ehrman, but rarely comes up to see the forest for the trees.

He dings Ehrman for imprecise language or missed references, which is fine for a scholarly exposition of another's work, but in the bigger picture Ehrman may still be correct.

True, but then we already agreed with Ehrman beforehand. But even if half of Carrier criticisms is correct, this would severely devaluate the book (which I have yet to read) in my eyes. I've seen that phenomenon with some professional historians answering kooks - the kooks are so "discredited" a priori that sometimes such historians don't exert themselves with arguments, logic and fact-checking, thus creating rather shoddy critiques. They are not wrong, but they haven't done much either.

But then, I will have to look for myself for the overarching argument that Ehrman makes, maybe it's good.

179 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 1:49:59am
The “Other Jesus” Conundrum: Ehrman says the fact that “the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus were recent events” is “the view of all of our sources that deal with the matter at all” (p. 251). This is false. And it’s astonishing that he would not know this, since several other scholars have discussed the sources that place Jesus in the reign of Jannaeus in the 70s B.C. Ehrman seems to think (and represents to his readers) that G.A. Wells just made this up (pp. 247-51). In fact, Wells is discussing a theory defended by others, and based in actual sources: Epiphanius, in Panarion 29, says there was a sect of still-Torah-observant Christians who taught that Jesus lived and died in the time of Jannaeus, and all the Jewish sources on Christianity that we have (from the Talmud to the Toledot Yeshu) report no other view than that Jesus lived during the time of Jannaeus. Though these are all early medieval sources, it nevertheless means there were actual Christians teaching this and that the Jews who composed the Babylonian Talmud knew of no other version of Christianity.

This one is interesting. Will have to look up more info on this. Peter Schaefer in Jesus in Talmud argues (from the similar Talmud Yerushalmi version) that the one Bavli Jesus story which puts him in Jannaeus's period was initially not about Jesus, with the name added during the editing process. If however this was a real early tradition...

180 freetoken  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 1:53:20am

re: #178 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

But then, I will have to look for myself for the overarching argument that Ehrman makes, maybe it's good.

Perhaps it's unfair of me, but I tend to categorize Ehrman as a somewhat over-zealous ex-zealot. IOW, given his determined Evangelical nature as a youth, I sometimes wonder if Ehrman pumps out these books as a sort of venting of a still existing need for a type of apologetics, only a non-supernaturalist one.

Sometimes I wish he would step back, take a few years off, and read his critics more seriously, and spend the time to work through the issues, and then publish an exhausting defense of his views.

Carrier is good for digging out examples of how Christianity is a syncretistic religion, incorporating beliefs from a variety of religious practices found throughout the Near East and Mediterranean regions, during the Greek and Roman periods. Obviously based on apocalyptic Juadism, but with serious flavoring from other movements, Christianity is rarely spoken of in these terms in public in the US, certainly not by our political leaders.

In some ways I'd say the American public just isn't ready for the Carrier type of analysis of what is in practice (though not in Constitution) our national religion. However, Ehrman gives enough nods to those who require a historical Jesus to just barely make him within the allowed boundaries of topics of what can be discussed in Christian circles, as demonstrated by the various debates he's had with Apologists.

181 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 2:00:46am

re: #179 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

I see Joshua Efron in Studies on the Hasmonean Period has a whole chunk of text about Epiphanius. He characterizes the attempts to find an early "core" of this dating as delusional and explains why. Seems like much ado about nothing.

182 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 2:26:11am

re: #180 freetoken

I've found everything of Ehrman's that focused on authorship to be perfectly fine. I haven't actually read any of his Jesus-focused books.

The bit about Osiris in particular I'm very dubious about; the Egyptian mythos centered around death is always mythic and saying a resurrection happened 'on earth' or that Osiris came back to earth originally rather than first to some mystic realm is pretty odd. To me, that's using (ironically) a kind of Christnianized frame to look at Egyptian beliefs about the cosmos. They had an entire pseudo-realm of reality where they believed death and resurrection occurred.

And that paragraph is another weird bit-- Carrier uses it to push one of his arguments which isn't relevant, and in doing so actually damages the argument he just made:

In fact the earliest Christians also believed Jesus was resurrected into outer space: he, like Osiris, ascended to heaven in his resurrection body, appearing to those below in visions, not in person (see my survey of the evidence in The Empty Tomb, pp. 105-232; the same is true of many other dying-and-rising gods, like Hercules).

When you're trying to argue that Osiris was resurrected on earth, it's probably best not to immediately state he actually ascended to heaven right afterwards. And while this passage may be entirely true, it's entirely irrelevant to whether or not Ehrman is correct that Osiris was not resurrected 'on earth'.

I haven't read Carrier's book that includes the portion on Romulus, I'm unaware of any resurrection cult of Romulus that believes he died and was resurrected on earth, which seems the central bit.

However, Carrier brings up so much stuff-- and many of the times it's that Ehrman has not dealt with something, rather than dealt with it badly-- that if even half if it is accurate Ehrman's book is very badly flawed indeed.

Ooh, another bit that annoyed me was this bit of naked assertion:

Both sources (Plato and inscriptions) also confirm the Bacchic belief that one could be baptized on behalf of someone who had already died and thus gain them a better position in the afterlife. It cannot be a coincidence that exactly the same thing, baptism for the dead, is attested as a Christian rite in Paul (1 Corinthians 15:29).

Really? It cannot be? Why not?

And this bit:

This also undermines Ehrman’s claim that there is no evidence that the death of Osiris (or any other god) “brought atonement for sin” (p. 26). We know Egyptian afterlife belief made the physical weight of sin a factor in deciding one’s placement in the afterlife, and that (as just shown above) baptism into the death and resurrection of Osiris washes away those sins and thus lightens the soul to obtain the best place in heaven. It is hard to imagine how this does not entail that the death and resurrection of Osiris somehow procured salvation through remission of sins (and clearly a similar belief had developed in Bacchic and other cults).

I don't feel he did indeed just show that above-- he appears to be saying that if 'baptism' in the Osiris cult grants eternal life, then it must be through lightening the load of sins on the soul, and that this must be because Osiris as a sacrifice bought atonement for those sins.

He's stringing together a lot here, but to me it fails at every step: The eternal life granted by 'baptism' in the Osiris cult might be separate from the general judging process that Egyptians underwent, if it were part of it it might not operate through taking away sins, and he has given no reason to believe Osiris was a sacrifice or in other way ritually atoning for sins, rather than simply demonstrating resurrective power.

In the end, Carrier's critique shows a lot of flaws that Ehrman should deal with, but is highly flawed itself.

183 AK-47%  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 2:31:12am

So when I started college at Indiana University, there were three albums you could hear being played at any time of day or night from behind a towel-stuffed doorway in the McNutt dormitory: "Ted Nugent Live", Styx' "The Grand Illusion" and REO Speedwagons "High Infidelity".

How could the Army tear apart this Holy Trinity of Classic Rock over a few harmless statements?

/

184 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 2:36:14am

re: #183 Expand Your Ground

So when I started college at Indiana University, there were three albums you could hear being played at any time of day or night from behind a towel-stuffed doorway in the McNutt dormitory: "Ted Nugent Live", Styx' "The Grand Illusion" and REO Speedwagons "High Infidelity".

How could the Army tear apart this Holy Trinity of Classic Rock over a few harmless statements?

/

Queen's Greatest Hits and AC/DC Back in Black featured prominently in my dorm. Blasting "Fat Bottom Girls" out the window at passing co-eds was Friday afternoon blowing off steam. No we didn't date much, why do you ask?

Also, Good Morning Honcos!

185 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 2:42:04am

re: #182 Obdicut

The bit about Osiris in particular I'm very dubious about; the Egyptian mythos centered around death is always mythic and saying a resurrection happened 'on earth' or that Osiris came back to earth originally rather than first to some mystic realm is pretty odd. To me, that's using (ironically) a kind of Christnianized frame to look at Egyptian beliefs about the cosmos. They had an entire pseudo-realm of reality where they believed death and resurrection occurred.

I don't see how this is a criticism of Carrier though. He cites a source (Plutarch), explains why he thinks the source is reliable, and distinguishes between private stories and public stories. Note that he doesn't actually argue that Osiris came to Earth to bolster the mythicist case, since his and Doherty's hypothesis is that in the minds of the early Christians Jesus' crucifiction and resurrection (as well as maybe the entire life) happened in that same mystic "sublunar realm", not on Earth.

186 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 2:42:50am

re: #184 Darth Vader Gargoyle

Man, I used to love the Doors. I still like them, but I never play them, know what I mean?

There's only a few people who I listened to all the time back then and still do now-- the old blues dudes, Tom Waits, Neko Case. That's pretty much it.

187 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 2:46:07am

re: #186 Obdicut

Man, I used to love the Doors. I still like them, but I never play them, know what I mean?

There's only a few people who I listened to all the time back then and still do now-- the old blues dudes, Tom Waits, Neko Case. That's pretty much it.

It's dorky, but I still love Boston's first two albums. I can listen to them all the time. Hearing Foreplay/Longtime on my friends cassette player was my musical awakening.

188 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 2:46:34am

re: #185 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

Because he's not giving any supporting evidence for the idea that the 'public' believed these events happened 'on earth', and believing such would go counter to general Egyptian views of the Cosmos, where that isn't really possible. Whether or not Osiris died and was returned to life isn't really the issue.

And even by citing Plutarch, he's citing someone who doesn't follow the Egyptian religion citing a belief. What looks like a resurrection 'on earth' to Plutarch may be nothing of the sort, given that the Egyptian view of the shadow-world was something that very closely resembled earth.

189 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 2:52:26am

I will say the entire mythicist/historicist debate seems pointless and flawed to me in the first place, though. It's not a binary division, in my opinion.

Perhaps Jesus existed, was an itinerant prophet as described, was reputed to have performed the miracles he did at the time, was tried and executed, and myths of his ressurection sprang up.

Or maybe he never existed, and was instead syncretized from a large number of other sources.

Or maybe he did exist, but the only true thing about his story is that he was executed through crucifixtion, and on that nail (heh) was hung the rest of the myth.

Or maybe he did exist, was believed by his followers to have been the son of god, but was never crucified.

Given the limitations of our insight into the time period-- and what Carrier, in particular, says about the way that non-historical people were often treated as real, given biographies, etc-- it seems impossible to distinguish between a real Jesus whose life events were highly mythologized and an entirely mythological Jesus.

190 AK-47%  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 2:58:53am

re: #189 Obdicut

This debate is irrelevant to those who insist that the Holy Scriptures are the true and inerrant Word of God, as dictated to the Evangelists by the Holy Spirit.

191 AK-47%  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 3:00:04am

And even more irrlevant to those who insist that the Holy Scriptures were dictated to Mohammed by Allah.

192 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 3:12:34am

re: #188 Obdicut

Because he's not giving any supporting evidence for the idea that the 'public' believed these events happened 'on earth', and believing such would go counter to general Egyptian views of the Cosmos, where that isn't really possible. Whether or not Osiris died and was returned to life isn't really the issue.

Again, maybe I'm missing something, but he does cite supporting evidence: Plutarch. One may fight with him about whether or not this is strong or sufficient evidence, but he does cite evidence. So you can't say "he's not giving any supporting evidence". Oh, and he's actually giving more than Plutarch:

That these kinds of beliefs about Osiris’ death and resurrection long predate Plutarch is established in mainstream scholarship on the cult: e.g. S.G.F. Brandon, The Saviour God: Comparative Studies in the Concept of Salvation (Greenwood 1963), pp. 17-36 and John Griffiths, The Origins of Osiris and His Cult, 2nd ed. (Brill 1980).

I also don't see how the following criticism is correct:

And that paragraph is another weird bit-- Carrier uses it to push one of his arguments which isn't relevant, and in doing so actually damages the argument he just made:

In fact the earliest Christians also believed Jesus was resurrected into outer space: he, like Osiris, ascended to heaven in his resurrection body, appearing to those below in visions, not in person (see my survey of the evidence in The Empty Tomb, pp. 105-232; the same is true of many other dying-and-rising gods, like Hercules).

When you're trying to argue that Osiris was resurrected on earth, it's probably best not to immediately state he actually ascended to heaven right afterwards. And while this passage may be entirely true, it's entirely irrelevant to whether or not Ehrman is correct that Osiris was not resurrected 'on earth'.

However I don't see how it damages his case, since he's not trying to make a case that this was the only belief. Rather, that such a belief existed. He emphasizes the existence of two opposite interpretations of resurrection. So he is not arguing that "Osiris was resurrected on earth" in all cases. Rather in private "true" cases. And the analogy between Jesus and Osiris above is the analogy between private interpretations. You may argue whether or not there was such a division in the first place, but there is no contradiction in Carrier's logic.

193 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 3:18:18am

re: #189 Obdicut

While I'm not convinced by Carrier, I don't see the distinction as non-existent. The distinction is between Jesus made out of whole cloth, on the basis of Hebrew prophecies; and Jesus a real figure, although heavily mythologized. If there is historical evidence for Jesus' existence, then the former is just false. Is it possible to prove the former if there is no such evidence? I don't know, but that's what Carrier will try to do in his next book, offering the refinement of the "sublunar incarnation" theory. So, it may be hard but possible. Or maybe impossible.

194 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 3:21:25am

re: #192 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

Sorry, "miswrote":

So he is not arguing that "Osiris was resurrected on earth" in all cases. Rather in private "true" cases.

Should be "certain public cases".

195 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 3:23:55am

re: #192 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

Again, maybe I'm missing something, but he does cite supporting evidence: Plutarch. One may fight with him about whether or not this is strong or sufficient evidence, but he does cite evidence.

I'm sorry, but I don't see what he cites about Plutarch as actual commentary on whether Osiris was resurrected on earth. Or rather, the entire way that Egyptians looked at life, death, and the afterlife, to me, means that those words have very little to do with the way that they're used by Christians or proto-Christians. It's like comparing the Australian Aboriginal Cosmology with a Chritian one; they're just too wildly disparate to be sure that any terms or stories, even if they seem to relate to each other, do.

However I don't see how it damages his case, since he's not trying to make a case that this was the only belief.

I'm pointing out what is probably just a flaw in his language, but it bears resemblance to flaws he dings Ehrman for. When he says " he, like Osiris, ascended to heaven in his resurrection body, appearing to those below in visions, not in person", then he's making a categorical statement about belief in what Osiris did, even though he just asserted there isn't such categorical belief.

196 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 3:30:09am

re: #193 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

To me, it's kind of a sideline-- which is why it's disappointing to see Ehrman, who's stuff on the authorship of the early bible I really like-- spending so much time on something I think is unimportant. Obviously, to him, it is important, for whatever reason.

But it seems to me immaterial if there was an actual guy walking around or not; obviously, most of the occurrences in the New Testament are myths, if not all of them, most of the speech of Jesus is invented after the fact or garbled in translation and transmission, etc.

To me, it's like arguing about whether Daniel Boone really existed, using only the TV shows and movies about him. He was a mythical figure during his life, and so the reality of his life while he lived it was different than the way he was perceived, anyway.

197 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 3:43:17am

re: #195 Obdicut

I'm sorry, but I don't see what he cites about Plutarch as actual commentary on whether Osiris was resurrected on earth.

"He cites no supporting evidence" normally means he cites no sources/argues by assertion, rather than "the correct interpretation of his evidence shows that it does not support him". Carrier does no such thing in this case, although he offers his interpretation of the evidence that he cites, which is fine. You can argue that the evidence he cites does not prove his case; he still cites (some) evidence.

Anyway, as I pointed out, he cites 2 books in addition to Plutarch, so he cites supporting evidence.

I'm pointing out what is probably just a flaw in his language, but it bears resemblance to flaws he dings Ehrman for. When he says " he, like Osiris, ascended to heaven in his resurrection body, appearing to those below in visions, not in person", then he's making a categorical statement about belief in what Osiris did, even though he just asserted there isn't such categorical belief.

But Carrier's gripe with Ehrman is not mere flawed language, but the (allegedly) flawed substance of the positive assertion about absence of any sources about belief in Osiris' resurrection on earth. In the cited case Carrier's language may be imperfect (although it is quite clear in context), but it does not affect the substance of his argument, it is indeed at most a rhetorical slight, so I don't see it as an analogy to Ehrman's alleged sin, which, if proved, would be quite a serious matter.

198 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 3:43:38am

The one bit in Carrier's review that is really interesting, and the question I think is really interesting, is whether the early Christians believed and claimed to have received the teachings of Jesus from Jesus himself, or through 'revelation'.

199 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 3:46:07am

re: #197 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

"He cites no supporting evidence" normally means he cites no sources/argues by assertion, rather than "the correct interpretation of his evidence shows that it does not support him". Carrier does no such thing in this case, although he offers his interpretation of the evidence that he cites, which is fine. You can argue that the evidence he cites does not prove his case; he still cites (some) evidence.

Okay, my point is that the 'evidence' from Plutarch shouldn't really be considered, because there's no reason to believe Plutarch had a good understanding of the Egyptian cosmology, which was vastly different from Plutarch's cosmology.

But Carrier's gripe with Ehrman is not mere flawed language

I didn't say it was. I said he dinged Ehrman for flaws. I didn't say that's all he did.

200 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 3:47:14am

re: #196 Obdicut

Well, I find this sideline amusing, and this also forces us to think about what we know and don't know, and how. So it's all good.

201 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 3:55:28am

re: #190 Expand Your Ground

This debate is irrelevant to those who insist that the Holy Scriptures are the true and inerrant Word of God, as dictated to the Evangelists by the Holy Spirit.

They want to ignore it since paying attention to it leads one to looking at the fact that the Bible (and especially the King James version) are edited selections from a broader collection of writings. Someone along the way did picking and choosing to decide what was going and not going to be canon.

And I'm sure that there was an equivalent to George Lucas somewhere in the line who just wanted to add more droids in order to make it "better".
//

202 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 3:58:42am

Good morning Lizards!

A little foggy today in Philadelphia, but should warm up into the 70s today. Rain called for over the weekend, but what does one expect for spring in the northeast?

Still on a screwy work scheduled so life is mainly work, eat, sleep.

What do folks have planned for the weekend?

I am attending a board game get together tomorrow and then running a demo of a RPG that dates to the 1990s on Sunday. Plus the usual errands to buy catfood, cat litter, and groceries.

203 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 3:59:58am

re: #201 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

And I'm sure that there was an equivalent to George Lucas somewhere in the line who just wanted to add more droids in order to make it "better".
//

Perfect.

204 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 4:00:23am

re: #202 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

This is my last weekend before my class trip to Hong Kong, Ho Chi Min City and Beijing, so I am trying to figure out what to pack.

Anyone have any kindle book recommendations?

205 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 4:04:59am

re: #204 Darth Vader Gargoyle

You can get all of the works of P.G. Wodehouse for $2.

[Link: www.amazon.com...]

206 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 4:08:39am

re: #204 Darth Vader Gargoyle

This is my last weekend before my class trip to Hong Kong, Ho Chi Min City and Beijing, so I am trying to figure out what to pack.

Anyone have any kindle book recommendations?

Don't have a Kindle, so no idea what's available for it.

For the 3 week Malaysia/Ho Chi Minh City trip I took last summer the clothing selection was light weight tropical that dried quick (thank you REI). And be careful about chafing.

Per books for the flights and evenings the main selection that got handed around (e.g. 2-3 of read it) was a thick book of SF short stories, _Charlie Wilson's War_, and a couple of layman level science/history books.*

* - Travel books are expendable. They are often bought last minute, traded around, and not necessarily brought back.

207 CuriousLurker  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 4:42:21am

Heads-up, this could get interesting:

On Holocaust Remembrance Day, Catholic ‘Liberal’ Hails Return of Anti-Semitic Group

Just in time for Holocaust Remembrance Day, the Vatican is reportedly considering allowing the Society of St. Pius X (SSPX) back into its fold. The Society, noted for its virulent anti-Semitism, had been excommunicated, but Pope Benedict XVI lifted the order in 2009. Now, the Pope once again has reached out to the group to attempt "reconciliation," and has requested that it sign a "doctrinal preamble."

The SSPX sent a letter to the Pope during Holy Week, and the contents—and whether it has agreed to sign the doctrinal preamble—are to be made public after the Pope’s birthday celebration. The letter comes as a birthday present of sorts to the Pope, who has wanted the SSPX back in the Church.

National Catholic Reporter blogger Michael Sean Winters greets this news enthusiastically, penning a post "Welcome Back Lefebvirsts," in which he soft-pedals the SSPX anti-Semitism. "There are certain intellectual and cultural affinities within the Society of St. Pius X that must be addressed," Winters notes mildly, "most especially a residual, and sometimes quite lively, anti-Semitism. But, it will be easier to remove that particular sin from within the fold than without."

Perhaps if Winters had done his homework, he would see that the SSPX's anti-Semitism is not just residual, but flourishing. [...]

More at Religion Dispatches...

First of all, WTF is up with the anti-Semitism? Second, how will the GOP handle this? Do they pounce on the so-called liberal who's welcoming SSPX back? If so, how do they avoid angering the right-wing Catholics seem to have become part of their base?

Anyway, I'm off to make some breakfast and then get to work. Later, lizards.

208 Shropshire_Slasher  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 4:44:46am

re: #204 Darth Vader Gargoyle
Bring two paperbacks, if you lose them, so what.

209 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 4:44:54am

re: #207 CuriousLurker

It's really weird. The Church is currently punishing nuns for preferring to address poverty than homosexuality and abortion, and with the the other hand it is cossetting anti-semites.

210 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 4:46:35am

re: #207 CuriousLurker

Ugh. Several times ugh. I don't believe Benny is antisemitic, but I think his conservatism gets the better of him. He seems to think of those "traditionalists" as his spiritual kin. I don't know if there were any preconditions (like dropping antisemitic shit), but really. Why would anyone want to woo a minor splinter group?

211 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 4:50:25am

If they weren't good enough for John Paul II, why would anyone think they got better with time? Quite the opposite, they've hardened even more.

212 RogueOne  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 4:50:55am

Morning Peeps. Today is the Zimmerman bond hearing and this just came out:

ABC News: Photo taken after Trayvon Martin shooting shows bloody George Zimmerman
[Link: www.wftv.com...]

SEMINOLE COUNTY, Fla. —

ABC News exclusively obtained a graphic photograph of George Zimmerman’s head covered in blood that was taken just three minutes after the shooting that left 17-year-old Trayvon Martin dead.

Pic:
[Link: www.wftv.com...]

213 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 4:51:53am

re: #212 RogueOne

Heh, Bam!

214 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 4:52:53am

re: #212 RogueOne

So he did have cuts. But those are scalp wounds-- they're relatively small. Scalps wounds bleed like a motherfucker.

It's funny that they'd put up "WARNING: Graphic" for that.

215 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 4:54:54am

re: #212 RogueOne

Lesson learned, no more quick conclusions from grainy tapes :P
That said, Obdi is right - much blood at first, but it healed vv fast, since after 35 minutes one could hardly see much.

216 RogueOne  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 4:56:51am

re: #215 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

Head wounds bleed like a bitch, even shallow wounds. The story makes it sound like it was a neighbors phone that took it. I wonder if he took any from the front.

217 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 4:57:18am

re: #215 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

Well, that was my position: If he did get scalp wounds, they were very minor since otherwise they'd still be bleeding or bandaged.

218 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 4:58:38am

re: #205 Obdicut

I tell a lie, that's just the first 1/3 of his works.

219 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 4:58:51am

This doesn't support his story as a whole, but I think we now know that at least some time he indeed spent on his back.

220 RogueOne  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 4:59:41am

This was on the Daily Beast yesterday:

New Account: Zimmerman Told Cops Trayvon’s Last Words Were ‘Okay, You Got It’
[Link: www.thedailybeast.com...]

If the story is accurate it makes it sound (I think...) like they were both standing when the shot was fired.

According to the source, Zimmerman told police he didn’t realize that Martin was seriously injured, and that he lunged to get on top of him after the teenager fell to the ground. Moments later, a police officer from Sanford arrived, placed him in handcuffs and took his gun.

221 RogueOne  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 5:01:46am

re: #204 Darth Vader Gargoyle

This is my last weekend before my class trip to Hong Kong, Ho Chi Min City and Beijing, so I am trying to figure out what to pack.

Anyone have any kindle book recommendations?

How many marines can you hide in your ruck for the ho chi minh visit?

222 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 5:03:33am

re: #219 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

I've pretty much believed Zimmerman's account of the fracas from the beginning, except the extent to which he was being beaten. I think he panicked and interpreted a few cuts and scuffs as a life-threatening assault-- or Trayvon really did try to get the gun away from him, and he interpreted that as life-threatening (which has its own host of problems.)

Has any of his stories, though, accounted for why this happened in the backyards, when he said he got out of his car to cheek a street sign? That's the one bit of the story that's the most mysterious to me.

223 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 5:06:21am

Blood doesn't clear up much in the story, but I'm sure that for most of the right it will be absolute proof that Zimmerman is innocent of anything.

224 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 5:07:45am

Fresh from the twitters:

225 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 5:08:29am

re: #224 Obdicut

Why was Ulemek named first, then?

226 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 5:09:54am

re: #225 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

I dunno. I don't know how accurate this is. Apparently the Bosnian story is citing anonymous sources.

227 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 5:13:37am

re: #223 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

I don't know how accurate the Daily Beast is, but it has Zimmerman's story as:

Zimmerman, the source said, told officers he was so paralyzed by fear that he initially forgot he had a gun, but he said that after Martin noticed his 9mm pistol, Zimmerman pulled it out of his belt holder and fired one round, a hollow-point—the round that killed Martin. (The autopsy report on Martin has not yet been released.)

228 abolitionist  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 5:15:30am

re: #207 CuriousLurker

The only way this makes any sense to me is that it (re)opens the possibility of excommunicating individuals, rather than the entire group.

229 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 5:17:41am

re: #227 Obdicut

That would be telling.

230 Gus  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 5:18:49am

re: #212 RogueOne

Morning Peeps. Today is the Zimmerman bond hearing and this just came out:

ABC News: Photo taken after Trayvon Martin shooting shows bloody George Zimmerman
[Link: www.wftv.com...]

Pic:
[Link: www.wftv.com...]

Looks fake for the most part. Slashed indicate laceration more so than the result of hitting the ground. Looks more like it would be cause be a sharp weapon. No one ever mentioned a weapon. Then there's the little story that goes along with the photograph which sounds like something you would read on a blog:

The person who took the photograph told ABC News he heard Martin and Zimmerman fighting before the shooting and that after Martin was killed, Zimmerman asked the photographer to call Zimmerman’s wife, allegedly blurting out, “Man, just tell her I shot someone.”

The graphic looks weird too. Looks like some kind of generic phone sitting on top smooth concrete. A photograph of a photograph. If this was "exclusive" why didn't they just have access to the image itself without the gooft graphic shot.

231 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 5:19:51am

Noticed this URL in a comment under an ignorant screed about "12 million victims of Islamic genocide" at freeperville: enemiesforeignanddomestic.com

232 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 5:20:54am

re: #230 Gus

It does actually look a bit odd, but it might not be fake, just a photo of a photo, and so weird-looking.

Anyway, at worst, those are minor cuts. I've had cuts that bad and kept working.

233 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 5:21:29am

re: #230 Gus

Re: the last point - the owner probably didn't want to release the hi-res photo, maybe intends to sell the rights or something. Sorta preview.

234 RogueOne  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 5:22:08am

re: #230 Gus

Wasn't sure we'd see you around with today being a holiday and all....

Boulder's contentious "smokeout" expected to draw throngs
[Link: www.denverpost.com...]

235 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 5:23:27am

re: #230 Gus

It does look like "movie blood", but ABC is a legit source, I assume they checked things, so unless there is direct evidence of fakery, I'll go with the simpler explanation, that is also compatible with the police report, i.e. it's real.

236 Gus  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 5:25:05am

re: #235 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

It does look like "movie blood", but ABC is a legit source, I assume they checked things, so unless there is direct evidence of fakery, I'll go with the simpler explanation, that is also compatible with the police report, i.e. it's real.

ABC! Meh. More ABC Prime Time bullshit. This is fit for 20/20 or Dateline NBC. American's Most Wanted! Another missing blonde chick followed up by the latest on "Tragedy in Sanford." Snoozer.

237 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 5:26:42am

re: #236 Gus

Let's just say that if it turns out to be a prank, nobody should ever take ABC seriously ever again ;)

238 Gus  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 5:29:22am

re: #234 RogueOne

Wasn't sure we'd see you around with today being a holiday and all...

Boulder's contentious "smokeout" expected to draw throngs
[Link: www.denverpost.com...]

Not into it. The whole thing is goofy from the college officials to the pot smoking posers to the stupid Federal laws we have on marijuana. Boulder sucks and this seems to be another upper-middle class Boulder student first-world calamity.

239 RogueOne  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 5:30:25am

re: #238 Gus

You sound a little.....tired. Quit smoking yesterday?////

240 Gus  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 5:30:44am

re: #237 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

Let's just say that if it turns out to be a prank, nobody should ever take ABC seriously ever again ;)

ABC. Home to Jake Tapper. The Tweeting dodo head that was part of dogmeatgate this week. Not impressed.

241 Gus  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 5:32:20am

re: #239 RogueOne

You sound a little...tired. Quit smoking yesterday?///

No. Got up and drinking coffee. I probably seem a little different. OK. To be blunt. I'm sick and fucking tired about the Sanford shooting story. I'll leave it for bored office workers to kill time around the water cooler. It's boring. B-o-r-i-n-g.

242 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 5:33:21am

re: #241 Gus

Yeah, some of us are that ;)

243 Gus  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 5:34:10am

re: #242 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

Yeah, some of us are that ;)

Well. I know it's something to talk about. Otherwise we'll be talking about how much better we are than Palestinians for the millionth time.

244 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 5:36:56am

re: #243 Gus

That's the nature of chat rooms (which this more or less is). Throw in a grand idea, let's discuss it :P

245 Gus  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 5:38:16am

re: #244 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

That's the nature of chat rooms (which this more or less is). Throw in a grand idea, let's discuss it :P

Maybe I'll get to one who knows. Let's see... the BBC... some guy died... same old crap in Syria... something about the Sudan...

246 RogueOne  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 5:39:51am

We could always talk football. The draft is coming up and it's time to drag sergey (kicking and screaming if necessary) into the fold.

247 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 5:40:31am

re: #246 RogueOne

He can just do what my friend Bert, a Belgian, does; pretend any reference to US football is actually a reference to 'proper' football.

248 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 5:40:33am

re: #246 RogueOne

We could always talk football. The draft is coming up and it's time to drag sergey (kicking and screaming if necessary) into the fold.

You mean soccer, of course, not that thing you call "football"? /

249 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 5:41:43am

re: #243 Gus

Here, Gus, maybe you'll like this twitter feed.

[Link: twitter.com...]


dogs. pictures of dogs. sharks. gay things. stuff like that.

250 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 5:42:13am

Football, schmootball.
[Link: gawker.com...]

Congratulations to 30-year-old Justin Knapp, aka Wikipedia user "koavf", on becoming the first Wikipedia user to make 1,000,000 edits. The Indiana University grad has been editing since 2005, specializing in topics of politics, philosophy and religion. Under the "convictions" section of his user profile he writes "My entire world view is based on the assertion that God exists, and created humanity in His image."

251 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 5:43:13am

re: #250 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

And therein one of the problems of Wikipedia demonstrated in the most basic form.

252 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 5:43:27am

Morning Lizardim. Happy Friday from the beautifully clear and cold wild north country. How are things among the Lizardim today?

253 RogueOne  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 5:44:59am

The important stuff all in one chart:

American Politics In One Chart: "Slut," "Mom," And "Dog"
[Link: www.buzzfeed.com...]

Mentions of Slut, Mom, and Dog on Twitter :
Image: enhanced-buzz-7455-1334788507-2.jpg

254 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 5:45:05am

re: #251 Obdicut

And therein one of the problems of Wikipedia demonstrated in the most basic form.

Not sure. His edits may be fully objective.

255 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 5:46:17am
My entire world view is based on the assertion that God exists, and created humanity in His image. I'm radically liberal politically and religiously, but conservative and prudish in my personal temperment.
256 RogueOne  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 5:46:23am

re: #250 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

IU grad, figures, not much you can really do about them...

257 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 5:46:43am

re: #254 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

Not sure. His edits may be fully objective.

But that is the fundamental problem: _we don't know_. I prefer to get information from sources that are verifiable. Using Wiki as light informational reading (as I do), or to find sources for further research, is great. Taking it as gospel, not so much.

258 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 5:47:14am
This user believes in Christian communism
259 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 5:47:54am

re: #257 thedopefishlives

Oh, sure. I'm just talking about this guy.

For me, it would be better if Wiki was an annotated collection of links. Which is how I mainly use it.

260 Gus  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 5:48:45am

I'm hungry.

261 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 5:48:58am

Well, at least some consistency:

This user is pro-life.
This user believes that the death penalty should never be used.

262 Gus  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 5:49:17am

re: #249 Obdicut

Here, Gus, maybe you'll like this twitter feed.

[Link: twitter.com...]

dogs. pictures of dogs. sharks. gay things. stuff like that.

We could talk about bullying. Zzzzzzzzzz.

263 RogueOne  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 5:49:41am

re: #258 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

This user believes in Christian communism

I was taking a swipe at ralphie with the IU crack but that quote definitely sounds like an IU grad. Hippie capitol of the state!

264 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 5:49:58am

re: #260 Gus

I'm hungry.

Is this a suggestion for a dog joke?/

265 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 5:50:40am

re: #254 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

Not sure. His edits may be fully objective.

Maybe. Maybe not. Wikipedia will only ever be as good as the group of editors it has, and will tend to reflect their biases and convictions-- and those who are the most committed may also be the least objective.

266 RogueOne  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 5:52:23am

re: #264 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

Is this a suggestion for a dog joke?/

How Mitt Romney Learned To Love Twitter
[Link: www.buzzfeed.com...]

Image: enhanced-buzz-2379-1334807466-30.jpg

267 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 5:52:32am

re: #262 Gus

We could talk about bullying. Zzzz.

Well, seriously, Gus, if there's any subject that tickles your fancy, I'd be happy to talk about it. I just confirmed that what my producer claimed was a mistake on my part was a mistake on her part, so I've pretty much got the morning free.

Have I already told you about the museum of jurassic technology?

268 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 5:53:31am

re: #266 RogueOne

*massive RL LOL*

269 Gus  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 5:54:53am

re: #254 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

Not sure. His edits may be fully objective.

Pretty easy not to read too much into it.

270 RogueOne  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 5:54:58am

Buzzfeed is full of good stuff this morning:

20 Most Absurd Obama Photoshops
[Link: www.buzzfeed.com...]

Most of them aren't very good, but this one struck me funny:
Image: enhanced-buzz-13716-1334678093-2.jpg

271 Gus  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 5:58:21am

re: #267 Obdicut

Well, seriously, Gus, if there's any subject that tickles your fancy, I'd be happy to talk about it. I just confirmed that what my producer claimed was a mistake on my part was a mistake on her part, so I've pretty much got the morning free.

Have I already told you about the museum of jurassic technology?

My water seems to taste like there's a tinge of Palmolive in it.

272 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 6:00:40am

re: #271 Gus

My water seems to taste like there's a tinge of Palmolive in it.

Soap poisoning!

273 Gus  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 6:01:23am

Confirmation bias on Twitter? Let's see. I noticed that whenever Obama is ahead in a poll by "Company X" the Obama supporters are all like "hooray" this is it we're going to win! Next week another poll by the same "Company X" with Obama slightly behind and they're all like "THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG WITH THIS POLL AND I"M SURE COMPANY-X IS RUN BY REPUBLICANS!"

//

274 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 6:03:40am

re: #273 Gus

There is that. Also, photos and videos from the other side look fakier. ;)

(And I don't mean only the discussion above. It's really pretty standard.)

275 Gus  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 6:03:46am

Let's see. I've seen that "Agent in Secret Service scandal was in Sarah Palin's security detail" photo a million times already. Zzzzzz.

276 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 6:04:13am

re: #275 Gus

First time I hear about it. ;)

277 Gus  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 6:05:19am

re: #274 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

There is that. Also, photos and videos from the other side look fakier. ;)

(And I don't mean only the discussion above. It's really pretty standard.)

It's still goofy. Doesn't really matter much either because that case is out of my control. I'm not world leader pretend. Tomorrow they can release Zimmerman on bail and it would make zero difference to me at this point.

278 Gus  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 6:05:55am

re: #276 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

First time I hear about it. ;)

Bleh. I think they should give all those Secret Service agents a promotion.

//

279 Gus  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 6:06:55am

Other topics. Let's see. Oh. Leon Panetta talks too much.

280 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 6:07:10am

Didn't know Buck was on twitter.

281 Gus  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 6:07:13am

And the rent's too damn high.

282 Gus  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 6:07:33am

re: #280 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

Didn't know Buck was on twitter.

Yes. He was trying to bust my balls last night.

283 RogueOne  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 6:08:35am

Milwaukee Cop Caught On Camera Beating Man While Yelling, "Stop Resisting"
[Link: www.pixiq.com...]

If the internet has taught us anything, it is that cops appear to be trained to yell “stop resisting” while beating or tasing citizens into submission.

I learned that after my first arrest when Miami police pounded my head into the pavement, which is why by my third arrest, I learned to beat them to the punch (no pun intended) by declaring, “I’m not resisting.”

The latest incident to surface comes to us from Milwaukee where police pulled over a drunk man attempting to drive his friend’s Lambrorghini.

Police said Jeffrey Strasser was endangering the public by running a stop sign, so they had no choice but to pull him out of the car, thrown him to the ground and punch him repeatedly.

Youtube Video
284 Gus  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 6:09:01am

re: #280 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

Didn't know Buck was on twitter.

Mira, mira, mira!

285 RogueOne  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 6:09:14am

Zimmerman hearing is on MSNBC in case anyone is interested

286 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 6:09:16am

Bwahahaha.

287 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 6:09:37am

re: #283 RogueOne

BEHAVE YOURSELF!

288 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 6:10:28am

re: #285 RogueOne

Watching.

289 RogueOne  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 6:10:46am

re: #287 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

BEHAVE YOURSELF!

LOOK WHAT YOU MADE ME DO! I beat you because I love you...

290 RogueOne  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 6:11:01am

I had no idea Zimmerman was married.

291 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 6:11:39am

Zim does look pretty scrawny.

292 Gus  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 6:14:54am

I don't believe half of what I read that comes from the Middle East. That includes ALL sides.

Need a smoke.

293 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 6:18:24am

re: #292 Gus

I try to read all sources. Sometimes CAMERA will have a good point, sometimes 972, etc.

294 Gus  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 6:21:32am

re: #293 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

I try to read all sources. Sometimes CAMERA will have a good point, sometimes 972, etc.

Which of course many are based on suspicious news reports to begin with. Not my hill to climb though. They'll be fighting their fight for the next 1000 years just like they've already been fighting for the past 2000 years.

295 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 6:22:19am

re: #294 Gus

Which of course many are based on suspicious news reports to begin with. Not my hill to climb though. They'll be fighting their fight for the next 1000 years just like they've already been fighting for the past 2000 years.

Until the aliens land and tell everyone that they're all wrong.

296 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 6:23:39am

re: #293 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

I try to read all sources. Sometimes CAMERA will have a good point, sometimes 972, etc.

I find that Haaretz is the best news source, but their op-eds are suck.
Jpost and INN (aka Arutz 7) are full-on wingnut.
YNet is a tabloid.
JTA is an aggregate of various sources.
Forward is just weird, 100-year-old communists trying very hard to show how "hip" they are.

297 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 6:23:47am

re: #295 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Until the aliens land and tell everyone that they're all wrong.

And eat everyone.

298 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 6:24:10am

re: #297 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

And eat everyone.

I didn't think the Vulcans were into that sort of thing.

299 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 6:24:19am

re: #294 Gus

They haven't been fighting for the past 2000 years, though. There have been periods of at least relative peace in the Middle East, and, a lot of the time, the fighting in the Middle East has been from people outside the Middle East.

300 Gus  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 6:24:33am

re: #297 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

And eat everyone.

That would be great. I've always looked forward to the eventual demise of the humans.

301 Gus  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 6:26:08am

[National anthems being played in the background.]

302 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 6:26:20am

re: #300 Gus

That would be great. I've always looked forward to the eventual demise of the humans.

Join our Nyarlathotep cult.

303 Gus  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 6:26:41am

Focus group is focused.

304 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 6:27:22am

re: #300 Gus

That would be great. I've always looked forward to the eventual demise of the humans.

Time to switch to clove cigarettes, unless they finally banned those.

305 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 6:27:28am

re: #303 Gus

Focus group is focused.

They've got me beat.

306 Interesting Times  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 6:28:19am

re: #284 Gus

Mira, mira, mira!

Wow, that's a tsunami of derp *_* You're far nicer than I would have been in response (though to be honest, I never engage Twitter wingnuts - just block the fuckers as fast as possible in case they're connected to the creepsauce-slathered stalkers)

307 Gus  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 6:28:35am

re: #304 Obdicut

Time to switch to clove cigarettes, unless they finally banned those.

Damn that went right over my head.

//

308 Gus  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 6:30:43am

re: #304 Obdicut

Time to switch to clove cigarettes, unless they finally banned those.

Come to think of it. Those weasels actually did ban clove cigarettes didn't they. Or they're working on it. Another reason I remain an independent.

309 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 6:32:37am

Good morning lizards!

310 Gus  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 6:33:58am

Out of the bedroom and into the refrigerator and glove box!

//

311 AK-47%  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 6:36:41am

re: #209 Obdicut

It's really weird. The Church is currently punishing nuns for preferring to address poverty than homosexuality and abortion, and with the the other hand it is cossetting anti-semites.

Benedict XVI has made it clear that his papacy is about sticking to dogma and doctrine.

312 Gus  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 6:40:49am

re: #311 Expand Your Ground

Benedict XVI has made it clear that his papacy is about sticking to dogma and doctrine.

Yes but none of this is really what the Catholic Church is really about!

//

313 AK-47%  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 6:41:55am

re: #263 RogueOne

I was taking a swipe at ralphie with the IU crack but that quote definitely sounds like an IU grad. Hippie capitol of the state!

I never graduated IU, just went there for two years. Smoked a lot of dope there, though and my politics were pretty leftist. Spent most of my sophomore year arguing with my Ayn Rand fan roommate.

314 Interesting Times  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 6:43:17am

Heh. Sometimes Twitter timeline juxtapositions have unintentionally hilarious results:

Image: twitter-timeline-win.png

315 RogueOne  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 6:45:15am

Kentucky, figures:

Facebook Photo Lands Kentucky Man In Jail
[Link: www.pixiq.com...]

As stupid as Michael Baker is, he should consider himself lucky he didn’t poison himself while siphoning gasoline from a police car in Kentucky last month.

Instead, the 20-year-old incriminated himself by posting a photo of his crime on Facebook.
.....
In a town of just over 2,000 residents, it probably didn’t take long for the photo to extend beyond Baker’s network of 380 Facebook friends.

Image: fbpolicephoto.jpg

316 AK-47%  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 6:45:15am

re: #312 Gus

Yes but none of this is really what the Catholic Church is really about!

//

They way that the thing that influenced Benedict's world view, after his experiences in WWII, were the German student revots of the 60's. They were very anti-authoritarian and anti-clearical.

He definitely sees that kind of thinking as a threat, and sees it as a threat nearly as bad a fascism.

317 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 6:46:45am

re: #312 Gus

Yes but none of this is really what the Catholic Church is really about!

//

The hierarchy itself as the primary thing took over in the Vatican centuries ago. Every so often they address other things and reforms, but the default is protecting the hierarchy.

318 lawhawk  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 6:54:00am

re: #296 Learned Mother of Zion

Generally agree with your assessment, though you could switch Arutz Sheva and YNet as tabloid and right wing and not miss a beat.

All the Israeli outlets' op-ed pages are the suck as far as I am concerned. It's not like I haven't studied Israeli politics and ME politics for 20+ years and can't figure out positions on my own and need someone to tell me what they're thinking (exception being when they get someone from the government to provide their own editorials or folks like Michael Oren).

Yet, the Israeli media is a damned sight better than what you see elsewhere in the region, particularly where the media is government controlled through-and-through. That's starting to change, but it will take time; Twitter and alt-media sources are making inroads, but trying to confirm news through those channels is extremely tough.

319 AK-47%  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 6:54:16am

re: #317 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

The hierarchy itself as the primary thing took over in the Vatican centuries ago. Every so often they address other things and reforms, but the default is protecting the hierarchy.

The operative term is "propagaing the faith", not "protecting the hierarchy". Just like it's "job creators" and not "one percenters"

320 RogueOne  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 6:57:40am

Man Arrested After Pretending To Video Record Cop
[Link: www.pixiq.com...]

Mosco initially wasn't even involved in the scuffle with Park Police. He received a call about trouble with one of his colleagues. He arrived and pretended to videotape the proceedings with a new video camera, which he couldn't, in truth, even operate yet. Later on Facebook he recounted this exchange, not captured in his colleague's video clip:

"Put your camera away."

"I don't have to put my camera away."

"Put your hands behind your back."

After being tossed to the ground.....

"You all right, man?" a Park Police officer asks Mosco. After moments of semi-conscious writhing, the operator has begun to sit up. "It was very clear. You disobeyed every order I gave you and then you resisted arrest."

Stop Resisting!

322 Gus  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 7:05:56am

Well. Some bodyboarder came across a 13 to 16 foot Great White shark. He didn't make it.

323 Interesting Times  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 7:09:03am

This is what garbage like SOPA and any similar legislation will bring to the US:

YouTube loses court battle over music clips

A court in Hamburg ruled that YouTube is responsible for the content that users post to the video sharing site.

It wants the video site to install filters that spot when users try to post music clips whose rights are held by royalty collection group, Gema
...
Music streaming site Grooveshark pulled out of Germany claiming licencing rates set by Gema made it impossible to run a profitable business in the country.

...you have no idea how hard I'm struggling not to make a "Copyright Nazis" joke...

324 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 7:10:05am

re: #323 Interesting Times

I think I would disable YouTube to Germany then, if that's how they're going to play it.

325 AK-47%  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 7:11:28am

re: #323 Interesting Times

This is what garbage like SOPA and any similar legislation will bring to the US:

YouTube loses court battle over music clips

...you have no idea how hard I'm struggling not to make a "Copyright Nazis" joke...

Don't. Just refer to Gema as short for "German mafia".

326 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 7:12:36am

This is a great blog for those of us who remember '80s rock:

[Link: www.slicingupeyeballs.com...]

327 Gus  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 7:15:25am

Alas some Pepsi to replace my watered down coffee. Ran out of coffee. There, brain is starting to work again. Now! Onto the pressing topics of the day: dog-meat; Seamus; 7-11 cookies; and Ted Nugent!

328 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 7:16:59am

re: #327 Gus

Alas some Pepsi to replace my watered down coffee. Ran out of coffee. There, brain is starting to work again. Now! Onto the pressing topics of the day: dog-meat; Seamus; 7-11 cookies; and Ted Nugent!

And I have to figure out what to do about lunch. That's the most important topic of the day.

329 Gus  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 7:17:22am

re: #326 Obdicut

This is a great blog for those of us who remember '80s rock:

[Link: www.slicingupeyeballs.com...]

You know the flutist for Men at Work died?

330 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 7:17:38am

This didn't take long. Romney's Mormon faith brought up to make a political point.

Bashir Uses Book Of Mormon To Sentence Romney To Damnation

On his MSNBC program this afternoon Martin Bashir not only accused presumptive Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney of lying, but dragged Mormonism into the fray.

"It doesn't matter how many times he hears the truth, Mitt Romney prefers to tell lies," Bashir said after castigating Mitt Romney as a liar three times.

"Which brings us to the moral codes of Mormonism that Mr. Romney claims to live by. In Section 63, in verse 17 of the Doctrine and Covenants of the Mormon Church we find this: 'All liars, and whosoever loveth and and maketh a lie, and the whoremonger, and the sorcerer, shall have their part in that lake which burneth with fire and brimstone which is the second death.'

"And from the Book of Mormon to Nephi, Chapter 2, Verse 34 we find this: 'Wo unto the liar, for he shall be thrust down to hell.'

"Given what the Book of Mormon is clearly saying, Mr. Romney has but two choices. He can either keep lying and potentially win the White House, but bring eternal damnation upon himself or he can start telling the truth. The question for him, I guess, is which is more important," Bashir said on today's broadcast of "Martin Bashir."

One wonders why Bashir dragged Mormonism into his condemnation of Romney when all religions, such as Islam, forbid the practice of lying.

331 Gus  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 7:18:29am

Wasn't just a flutist. Most notable was the flute work in "Down Under."

332 AK-47%  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 7:18:52am

re: #327 Gus

Alas some Pepsi to replace my watered down coffee. Ran out of coffee. There, brain is starting to work again. Now! Onto the pressing topics of the day: dog-meat; Seamus; 7-11 cookies; and Ted Nugent!

You have summed up the major topics that occupy the American political discourse of today. And it is likely to only go downhill from there.

333 Killgore Trout  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 7:19:26am

re: #330 NJDhockeyfan

This didn't take long. Romney's Mormon faith brought up to make a political point.

Bashir Uses Book Of Mormon To Sentence Romney To Damnation

Sad but not surprising. We're going to see much more of this over the next year.

334 Killgore Trout  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 7:20:03am

re: #332 Expand Your Ground

You have summed up the major topics that occupy the American political discourse of today. And it is likely to only go downhill from there.

Occupy!

335 RogueOne  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 7:20:53am

re: #333 Killgore Trout

Sad but not surprising. We're going to see much more of this over the next year.

This one is funnier:

Brian Schweitzer: Mitt Romney’s ‘Family Came From a Polygamy Commune in Mexico’
[Link: www.thedailybeast.com...]

2 birds, 1 stone: fereigner and polygamist!

336 AK-47%  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 7:20:58am

re: #330 NJDhockeyfan

This didn't take long. Romney's Mormon faith brought up to make a political point.

Bashir Uses Book Of Mormon To Sentence Romney To Damnation

Heck, Christine O'Donnell told us it is not even moral to lie to Nazis about the Jews hiding up in the attic...

337 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 7:21:29am

re: #333 Killgore Trout

Sad but not surprising. We're going to see much more of this over the next year.

Democrat Governor goes farther attacking Romney's faith...

Not cool, Governor Schweitzer:

While discussing swing states, Schweitzer said Romney would have a “tall order to position Hispanics to vote for him,” and I replied that was mildly ironic since Mitt’s father was born in Mexico, giving the clan a nominal claim to being Hispanic. Schweitzer replied that it is “kinda ironic given that his family came from a polygamy commune in Mexico, but then he’d have to talk about his family coming from a polygamy commune in Mexico, given the gender discrepancy.” Women, he said, are “not great fans of polygamy, 86 percent were not great fans of polygamy. I am not alleging by any stretch that Romney is a polygamist and approves of [the] polygamy lifestyle, but his father was born into [a] polygamy commune in Mexico.”

338 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 7:21:58am

re: #335 RogueOne

This one is funnier:

Brian Schweitzer: Mitt Romney’s ‘Family Came From a Polygamy Commune in Mexico’
[Link: www.thedailybeast.com...]

2 birds, 1 stone: fereigner and polygamist!

You beat me to it!

339 RogueOne  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 7:22:02am

re: #336 Expand Your Ground

Heck, Christine O'Donnell told us it is not even moral to lie to Nazis about the Jews hiding up in the attic...

lying while masturbating gets you sent to hell blind. She's looking out for you man!

340 AK-47%  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 7:23:14am

re: #339 RogueOne

lying while masturbating gets you sent to hell blind. She's looking out for you man!

Masturbation is only wrong when it is done out of lust. I do it out of force of habit...

341 palomino  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 7:23:20am

re: #330 NJDhockeyfan

This didn't take long. Romney's Mormon faith brought up to make a political point.

Bashir Uses Book Of Mormon To Sentence Romney To Damnation

I don't know why this guy (most famous for his crappy celebrity interviews) would bring up Mitt's religion. Romney's a liar, plain and simple. You don't need the Book of Mormon to prove that.

342 Gus  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 7:23:53am

Down Under - Men At Work (HQ Audio)

Youtube Video
343 RogueOne  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 7:24:01am

IMO, Zimmerman's lawyer is chewing up the police investigator. Anyone disagree?

344 Killgore Trout  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 7:24:05am

re: #335 RogueOne

This one is funnier:

Brian Schweitzer: Mitt Romney’s ‘Family Came From a Polygamy Commune in Mexico’
[Link: www.thedailybeast.com...]

2 birds, 1 stone: fereigner and polygamist!

Communist and religious fanatic too. So much "win" in one little story.

345 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 7:25:21am

re: #344 Killgore Trout

Communist and religious fanatic too. So much "win" in one little story.

This is just the start. The left can't help themselves. It's going to get ugly.

346 Killgore Trout  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 7:26:28am

re: #345 NJDhockeyfan

This is just the start. The left can't help themselves. It's going to get ugly.

I'm also seeing rumors that one of Mitt's sons is gay. It's probably going to get much worse.

347 RogueOne  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 7:27:05am

re: #345 NJDhockeyfan

This is just the start. The left can't help themselves. It's going to get ugly.

It's always ugly, that's part of the fun. My favorite video about the subject:


Youtube Video
348 palomino  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 7:27:38am

re: #345 NJDhockeyfan

This is just the start. The left can't help themselves. It's going to get ugly.

Yeah, it's the left that can't help itself./////

The right has been so restrained and made no intemperate comments about Obama over the last 5 years...and certainly no conserative member of Congress would accuse half of the Dems in Congress of being commies.

349 AK-47%  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 7:27:47am

re: #330 NJDhockeyfan

I would simply like to hear Mitt talk about his personal faith, not necessarily his church or his religion and how it shapes his political views.

But having a discussion like that would be nigh unto impossible in the current climate of discourse in America.

350 Gus  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 7:29:35am

re: #335 RogueOne

This one is funnier:

Brian Schweitzer: Mitt Romney’s ‘Family Came From a Polygamy Commune in Mexico’
[Link: www.thedailybeast.com...]

2 birds, 1 stone: fereigner and polygamist!

I saw that. I don't know if it's true that it was a "polygamy commune." I look at that and think "good red meat to attack Romney." But. At the same time though it's would be hypocritical of me because I don't see anything wrong with polygamy if done within normally accepted limits. The argument could be much like, ironically, the dog-meat thing. It's within a cultural context. No one would bat an eye if this was something done say in Indonesia within academic circles.

351 RogueOne  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 7:37:20am

re: #350 Gus

I have a good time making fun of hand-wringers and, in your words, pearl-clutchers who tend to remember the good ol' days that never were. We've never had an election where people didn't say horrible things about their opponents. If people can't take snide, snarky comments then they should sit at home in the dark with their fingers in their ears.

352 Gus  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 7:37:27am

The point being that ridiculing Romney for the polygamy/Mexico thing is just as culturally insensitive as ridiculing Obama for his Indonesian experience and familial background.

353 lawhawk  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 7:37:50am

ABC releases photo showing Zimmerman's injuries to back of head as proof of Zimmerman's claims he was jumped by Martin.

Well, we don't know what Zimmerman was doing before Martin allegedly attacked him. Martin could have been fearing for his own life before Zimmerman ended up shooting him dead and attacked out of self-defense.

354 Targetpractice  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 7:38:34am

Funny that this didn't come out weeks ago, when it might have defused the situation:

Warning Graphic Photo: Possible New Evidence Shows George Zimmerman's Bloodied Head

A new photograph obtained exclusively by ABC News showing the bloodied back of George Zimmerman's head, which was taken three minutes after he shot and killed 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, gives possible credence to his claim that Martin had bashed his head against the concrete as he fought for his life.

The revelation comes as his attorney and prosecutors prepare for Zimmerman's bail hearing today, which could result in his being released from jail. Zimmerman, 28, is being held on charges of second-degree murder for the Feb. 26 shooting of Martin, which could carry a life sentence if he is convicted.

The exclusive image shows blood trickling down the back of George Zimmerman's head from two small cuts. It also shows a possible contusion forming on the crown of his head. The original police report that night notes that the back of Zimmerman's head was wet, and that he was bleeding from the nose and head.

*snip*

The photographer told ABC News exclusively that they did not see the scuffle that night, but did hear it. The source saw Martin's prostrate body on the wet grass and claims the gunpowder burns on Martin's gray hoodie were clearly visible; the gunpowder marks could show that Martin was shot at very close range.

The photographer says that after the shooting Zimmerman asked to call his wife. When the photographer asked what to say, Zimmerman allegedly blurted out "man, just tell her I shot someone."

ABC News has learned that investigators have seen the photo.

And the photo in question.

355 RogueOne  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 7:38:58am

re: #353 lawhawk

Are you watching the hearing? I'd like to hear your take on the proceedings thus far.

356 Gus  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 7:40:17am

re: #351 RogueOne

I have a good time making fun of hand-wringers and, in your words, pearl-clutchers who tend to remember the good ol' days that never were. We've never had an election where people didn't say horrible things about their opponents. If people can't take snide, snarky comments then they should sit at home in the dark with their fingers in their ears.

The good old days! I'm sure it was worse. The reality is a lot of these candidates wouldn't even be on the ballot. That would include both Obama and Romney. Romney just hired a foreign policy spokesman who has been "living with his partner" for almost 10 years. Imagine that 20 years ago?

357 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 7:41:03am

re: #353 lawhawk

ABC releases photo showing Zimmerman's injuries to back of head as proof of Zimmerman's claims he was jumped by Martin.

Well, we don't know what Zimmerman was doing before Martin allegedly attacked him. Martin could have been fearing for his own life before Zimmerman ended up shooting him dead and attacked out of self-defense.

The truth of what happened will come out at the trial. That's why I haven't taken a side on this. All we know is what has been reported by the press.

358 RogueOne  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 7:41:22am

re: #356 Gus

If T. Jefferson were running today and called his opponent a "hermaphrodite".... he'd have to leave the country.

359 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 7:42:01am

re: #357 NJDhockeyfan

The truth of what happened will come out at the trial. That's why I haven't taken a side on this. All we know is what has been reported by the press.

Not necessarily. What comes out at trial is usually a vague mishmash of facts that is closer to the truth than the case that either side presents, but very rarely does the actual truth make an appearance.

360 palomino  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 7:42:08am

re: #353 lawhawk

ABC releases photo showing Zimmerman's injuries to back of head as proof of Zimmerman's claims he was jumped by Martin.

Well, we don't know what Zimmerman was doing before Martin allegedly attacked him. Martin could have been fearing for his own life before Zimmerman ended up shooting him dead and attacked out of self-defense.

Funny how Trayvon Martin's right to stand his ground never gets brought up.

361 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 7:42:39am

re: #354 Targetpractice

Funny that this didn't come out weeks ago, when it might have defused the situation:

And the photo in question.

It would have got in the way of high ratings.

362 Gus  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 7:42:55am

re: #358 RogueOne

If T. Jefferson were running today and called his opponent a "hermaphrodite"... he'd have to leave the country.

John Adams?

363 lawhawk  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 7:43:48am

Heh... just had RS McCain request my linking him in linkedin.

Not.Gonna.Happen.

Never mind that I refuse to use that service, but no. Just no.

364 Targetpractice  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 7:44:00am

re: #361 NJDhockeyfan

It would have got in the way of high ratings.

All it's going to do now is lend credence to the assertions that the charges are politically/racially motivated and that the whole thing's a sham.

365 palomino  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 7:44:21am

re: #359 thedopefishlives

Not necessarily. What comes out at trial is usually a vague mishmash of facts that is closer to the truth than the case that either side presents, but very rarely does the actual truth make an appearance.

Exactly, does anyone really think the truth came out in the OJ trial, neverending fiasco that it was? What about the Casey Anthony trial? There's no magic truth machine in a trial.

366 lawhawk  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 7:44:45am

re: #355 RogueOne

Nope, not watching.

367 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 7:45:12am

re: #364 Targetpractice

All it's going to do now is lend credence to the assertions that the charges are politically/racially motivated and that the whole thing's a sham.

Sure will. Both sides are going to get louder about where they stand too.

368 Killgore Trout  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 7:45:47am

re: #352 Gus

The point being that ridiculing Romney for the polygamy/Mexico thing is just as culturally insensitive as ridiculing Obama for his Indonesian experience and familial background.

Agreed. Obama's upbringing wasn't exactly "normal". He wasn't poor and as an adult he chose a slightly goofy church. Some of this stuff is worth looking into in a reasonable way but it's mostly nonsense and shouldn't be a substitute for serious political thought.

369 lawhawk  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 7:46:36am

re: #360 palomino

I have repeatedly commented on that both here and on my own blog. Martin had utility of SYG; and that reflects serious problems with SYG.

It actually promotes escalation of violence in these kinds of scenarios. Instead of defusing the situation, it can result in fatal outcomes.

370 RogueOne  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 7:48:47am

re: #366 lawhawk

Nope, not watching.

Just FYI, CNN and HLN are doing the best job with coverage, no breaking in for anything other than commercials.

371 lawhawk  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 7:49:58am

re: #368 Killgore Trout

Digging into the background of political leaders makes a lot of sense when someone is a relative unknown; such was the case with both Obama and Palin during the 2008 cycle. McCain and Biden were known politically and their backgrounds had been hashed out for decades previously.

Now? Romney and Obama's backgrounds are pretty well known - Romney from his two runs for President and Obama's record as President, but the right wing continues thinking that there's dirt to be kicked up no matter how inane and non-news it might be (picking up a quote from his bio about consuming dog when he was a kid in Indonesia as though this somehow affects his policy decisions on the economy, politics, etc.)

372 sattv4u2  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 7:50:29am

re: #370 RogueOne

Just FYI, CNN and HLN are doing the best job with coverage, no breaking in for anything other than commercials.

Damn Capitalists!!!

OWSCNN!!!
/

373 AK-47%  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 7:52:39am

re: #359 thedopefishlives

Not necessarily. What comes out at trial is usually a vague mishmash of facts that is closer to the truth than the case that either side presents, but very rarely does the actual truth make an appearance.

as if the endless discussions in the press and on blogsites are going to produce any more clarity...

374 RogueOne  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 7:52:42am

re: #372 sattv4u2

damn money grubbing buttholes////

In fairness, they seem to be intentionally spacing their commercial breaks so one of the stations is always showing the hearing.

375 RogueOne  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 7:53:21am

uh-oh, he's going to let Z make a statement.

376 palomino  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 7:53:37am

re: #369 lawhawk

I have repeatedly commented on that both here and on my own blog. Martin had utility of SYG; and that reflects serious problems with SYG.

It actually promotes escalation of violence in these kinds of scenarios. Instead of defusing the situation, it can result in fatal outcomes.

Especially when one of the parties is an idiot cop wannabe who hops out of his car carrying a loaded gun.

377 RogueOne  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 7:53:44am

KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT!!!

378 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 7:53:52am

re: #373 Expand Your Ground

as if the endless discussions in the press and on blogsites are going to produce any more clarity...

They're not, but I'm just saying. Going to trial is no guarantee that anyone will ever learn the real truth. Heck, even the lawyers may not actually know - clients lie to their lawyers all the time, even though that can backfire badly.

379 Killgore Trout  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 7:54:21am

re: #371 lawhawk

Yeah, both candidates are pretty well known and vetted. Pretty much all of the recent outrages have been old, recycled and unimportant stories.

380 Killgore Trout  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 7:54:54am

re: #375 RogueOne

uh-oh, he's going to let Z make a statement.

The dude loves to talk.

381 sattv4u2  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 7:55:24am

re: #379 Killgore Trout

Yeah, both candidates are pretty well known and vetted. Pretty much all of the recent outrages have been old, recycled and unimportant stories.

:(

Well then, we'll have nothing to talk about besides frogs, boobs and ,,, well,, boobs!!!
/

382 RogueOne  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 7:55:35am

re: #380 Killgore Trout

The dude loves to talk.

I thought his lawyer was doing a great job. I'm not sure WTF he's thinking. He wanted to apologize, he should have put it in a letter.

383 Interesting Times  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 7:55:38am
384 Killgore Trout  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 7:55:43am

Scary firsthand Japanese tsunami footage. Too close.

Liveleak Video
385 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 7:55:53am

re: #381 sattv4u2

:(

Well then, we'll have nothing to talk about besides frogs, boobs and ,,, well,, boobs!!!
/

I'm all for boobs.

386 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 7:56:27am

re: #381 sattv4u2

:(

Well then, we'll have nothing to talk about besides frogs, boobs and ,,, well,, boobs!!!
/

Boob thread?

387 Killgore Trout  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 7:56:32am

re: #381 sattv4u2

:(

Well then, we'll have nothing to talk about besides frogs, boobs and ,,, well,, boobs!!!
/

Frogs and boobs and food, oh my!

388 sattv4u2  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 7:57:27am

re: #385 NJDhockeyfan

I'm all for boobs.

389 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 7:59:21am

re: #386 thedopefishlives

Boob thread?

Jennifer Love Hewitt's Boobs Are 'King Kong' Size

390 AK-47%  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 8:02:12am

re: #383 Interesting Times

That is the main problem I have with Romney and the GOP in general, the talking point that "we should run the country like a business".

Companies exist to make a profit for their shareholders. Governments exist to guarantee basic rights and freedom, the rule of law and the ability of the Free Market to function fairly and to everyone's benefit.

Despite the throbbing ideological hard-on a lot of people have for the Free Market, it does not run or regulate itself well at all.

391 sattv4u2  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 8:04:12am

re: #390 Expand Your Ground

it does not run or regulate itself well at all

Government has the same issues

(and no,, not the ENTIRE gov't ,,, just like not the ENTIRE free market)

392 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 8:04:24am

re: #390 Expand Your Ground

I kind of feel bad for capitalism. It doesn't deserve its modern 'defenders'.

Almost no one who says they favor the free market actually does, anyway.

393 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 8:05:33am

re: #391 sattv4u2

Well, the checks and balances built into the government help quite a bit. Look at all the asinine anti-abortion laws that are being struck down by the courts. It's not a perfect system, but it's a good one.

There's no such counterpart in the (non-existent) free-market. It's a fitness landscape.

394 RogueOne  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 8:09:20am

re: #360 palomino

Funny how Trayvon Martin's right to stand his ground never gets brought up.

The Prosecutor just brought it up.

395 RogueOne  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 8:10:15am

150k bond. Zimmermans on the street.

396 sattv4u2  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 8:10:46am

re: #393 Obdicut

Well, the checks and balances built into the government help quite a bit. Look at all the asinine anti-abortion laws that are being struck down by the courts. It's not a perfect system, but it's a good one.

There's no such counterpart in the (non-existent) free-market. It's a fitness landscape.

Thats just not accurate. The company I work for (as well as many of our competitors) have a very stringent, tightly enforced Best Practices guidlines over and above the dictates we're under from the FCC, SEC, et al .

397 Gus  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 8:10:58am

re: #384 Killgore Trout

Scary firsthand Japanese tsunami footage. Too close.

[Embedded content]

That's a lot of styrofoam.

398 Gus  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 8:11:32am

BREAKING: Judge sets bond at $150,000 for Zimmerman + GPS monitoring

399 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 8:11:57am

Hamas leader to Jewish paper: No peace with Israel

JERUSALEM (AP) — A Hamas leader said Thursday that if his militant group came to power in a future Palestinian state, it would not abide by any previous Palestinian peace deals with Israel.

Moussa Abu Marzouk, the Islamic militant group's number two figure, said any potential deal between Israel and the Palestinian Authority, even if ratified in a Palestinian referendum, would be considered only as a temporary truce.

"We will not recognize Israel as a state," he told the Jewish Daily Forward, a Jewish-American newspaper in an interview published Thursday. It was the first such interview by a senior Hamas leader to a Jewish publication. Israeli newspapers reported it on Friday.

The UN will promptly blame Israel.

400 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 8:12:05am

re: #396 sattv4u2

Thats just not accurate. The company I work for (as well as many of our competitors) have a very stringent, tightly enforced Best Practices guidlines over and above the dictates we're under from the FCC, SEC, et al .

The company you work for isn't taking place in the free market. And if it were, and those best practices diminished its competitive fitness, they'd go away or the company would go out of business.

401 RogueOne  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 8:12:21am

He's leaving the state.

402 Killgore Trout  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 8:13:00am

re: #397 Gus

That's a lot of styrofoam.

I think they use it for housing insulation.

403 Gus  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 8:16:23am

Plane crash.

404 Mattand  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 8:16:49am

re: #400 Obdicut

The company you work for isn't taking place in the free market. And if it were, and those best practices diminished its competitive fitness, they'd go away or the company would go out of business.

That's always how I've kind of felt about an unfettered free market that people like Penn Jillette always champion. Many companies, with no threat of sanctions, will try to increase their profits any way they can; if that means dumping toxic waste next to an elementary school, so be it.

405 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 8:17:08am

re: #403 Gus

Plane crash.

That sucks.

406 Gus  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 8:17:43am

re: #405 NJDhockeyfan

That sucks.

Looks bad.

407 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 8:18:38am

re: #404 mattand

There was one hardcore Rand-style libertarian on Fark who saw nothing wrong with someone buying a property that a river ran through and then completely damming up the river and selling the water to those downstream. Or dumping raw toxins in it. He really saw property rights as the be all and end all, even seeing the body as a 'possession' of the owner.

408 lawhawk  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 8:20:37am

re: #398 Gus

That actually sounds like the low end of what a reasonable bail amount (someone would have to see what other murder suspects' bail were set at to know for sure). GPS monitoring also seems sufficient; bail is designed to limit flight risk and to encourage appearance at trial. This balances those needs.

409 Interesting Times  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 8:20:42am

Heh:

410 RogueOne  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 8:21:19am

Jury Statute Not Violated by Protester, Judge Rules
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

The next time the 80-year-old retired chemistry professor takes his protest to the plaza outside the federal courthouse in Manhattan, he may make it home without being locked up.

A federal judge on Thursday ordered the dismissal of an indictment against the professor, Julian P. Heicklen, who had been charged with jury tampering for advocating the controversial position known as jury nullification while outside the courthouse.

Mr. Heicklen had repeatedly stood with a “Jury Info” sign and handed out brochures supporting nullification, the view that jurors who disagree with a law may ignore their oaths and vote to acquit a defendant accused of violating it.

Prosecutors said such advocacy, “directed as it is to jurors, would be both criminal and without constitutional protections no matter where it occurred.”

411 Mattand  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 8:22:06am

re: #407 Obdicut

Once I started looking into libertarianism, for every argument that made sense was one that was batshit crazy. Unfortunately, the batshit crazy ones had the potential to really damage quality-of-life for everyone.

412 RogueOne  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 8:22:08am

Time to get productive. Enjoy the day peoples.

413 Gus  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 8:23:18am

re: #408 lawhawk

That actually sounds like the low end of what a reasonable bail amount (someone would have to see what other murder suspects' bail were set at to know for sure). GPS monitoring also seems sufficient; bail is designed to limit flight risk and to encourage appearance at trial. This balances those needs.

I'm thinking manslaughter in the end. A lot of people aren't very happy about this but what can you do. At least he's in the system now which is much better than where we started. The you have the negative attention and repercussions against ALEC which is a good thing.

414 wrenchwench  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 8:25:37am

re: #350 Gus

I saw that. I don't know if it's true that it was a "polygamy commune." I look at that and think "good red meat to attack Romney." But. At the same time though it's would be hypocritical of me because I don't see anything wrong with polygamy if done within normally accepted limits. The argument could be much like, ironically, the dog-meat thing. It's within a cultural context. No one would bat an eye if this was something done say in Indonesia within academic circles.

There are some communities in Mexico that were founded by Mormons to continue the practice of polygamy when it was outlawed in the US. It was against the law in Mexico too, but they didn't make any effort to enforce it. I don't think those communities can rightly be called 'communes'. The families helped each other out, but I think to be a commune, you have to combine into one economy, instead of owning your own home, etc.

I enjoyed this book on the topic, The Fourth Wife. It gave me a better perspective on women who chose to live in a plural marriage. I still think it sucks, especially if one is not the first wife, but being the first wife could really suck too. The author of that book found out after it was published that her title subject is related to the Romneys.

But, yeah. The circumstances of his father's birth are no more relevant for Romney than they are for Obama.

415 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 8:27:19am

Judge sets bond at $150,000 for George Zimmerman

SEMINOLE COUNTY, Fla. - A Seminole County judge set bond at $150,000 for George Zimmerman on Friday. The state had asked for no bond or, at minimum $1 million. The defense had asked for a $15,000 bond.

Zimmerman won't be released just yet, as details for his release have to be worked out.

Zimmerman has taken the witness stand during his bail hearing and apologized to the parents of Trayvon Martin for shooting their son.

416 Gus  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 8:27:51am

Vanity Fair to Host Christopher Hitchens Memorial this Friday | Blogs | Vanity Fair

That would be today...

Vanity Fair will host a memorial for the late Christopher Hitchens this Friday in the Great Hall of Cooper Union. Scheduled to pay tribute in New York are Stephen Fry, Martin Amis, Salman Rushdie, Ian McEwan, Christopher Buckley, National Institutes of Health director Francis Collins, and physicist Lawrence Krauss. “In assembling a roster of speakers with deep belief in the power of the written word and the wisdom of nature and the universe, we hope to do an atom of justice to Christopher’s memory,” Vanity Fair editor Graydon Carter said. A limited number of seats are available to the public on a first-come, first-served basis. Those interested in attending should send a request to...

417 AK-47%  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 8:27:51am

re: #391 sattv4u2

it does not run or regulate itself well at all

Government has the same issues

(and no,, not the ENTIRE gov't ,,, just like not the ENTIRE free market)

There are some things we cannot and should not entrust to the Free Market, and there are lots of other things that the Free Market can do quite well.

And while a democratically elected government is (at least theoretically accountable) for its actions to every eligible voting citizen, the Free market is accountable only to its shareholders.

418 sattv4u2  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 8:28:03am

Dear Dennis

Buy a GPS

[Link: www.elpasotimes.com...]

Driver took wrong turn into Juárez with load of ammo

419 AK-47%  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 8:28:56am

re: #395 RogueOne

150k bond. Zimmermans on the street.

"On the street" being a figurative term, I assume he is keeping as low a profile as possible...

420 sattv4u2  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 8:29:34am

re: #417 Expand Your Ground

the Free market is accountable only to its shareholders.

And customers, and employees, and neighborhood, and ,,,,,,

421 lawhawk  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 8:30:25am

re: #403 Gus

We're lucky we didn't have a major crash in the NYC metro area yesterday. A Delta airlines plane suffered an engine failure with a bird strike and was forced to make an emergency landing shortly after takeoff. No one on board was hurt, but there's a video taken of a guy on board showing the plane going into a flock of what looks like seagulls.

422 Gus  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 8:30:46am

Well that turned on the freaking faucet again.

423 AK-47%  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 8:32:14am

re: #420 sattv4u2

the Free market is accountable only to its shareholders.

And customers, and employees, and neighborhood, and ,,,

It has to interact with customers, employees and its community, but the decisions on who is to run the company - and how - is solely at the discretion of the shareholders.

424 Patricia Kayden  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 8:34:03am

Ted Nugent has been making racist, sexist and generally hateful comments for years. The man vocally supported apartheid, for goodness sakes. Why did Fort Knox invite him in the first place?

425 wrenchwench  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 8:34:39am

re: #418 sattv4u2

Dear Dennis

Buy a GPS

[Link: www.elpasotimes.com...]

Driver took wrong turn into Juárez with load of ammo

Funny, that's what researchok said, pretty much.

1 researchok Thu, Apr 19, 2012 12:08:19pm

I predict a GPS under the Christmas tree this year.

426 sattv4u2  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 8:38:04am

re: #419 Expand Your Ground

"On the street" being a figurative term, I assume he is keeping as low a profile as possible...

Oh hell yes

I doubt he'll be frequenting the local Outback Steakhouse anytime soon

427 sattv4u2  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 8:42:40am

BBL ,,,

All this breaking news (zimmerman,, plane crash ,, et al) phones are lighting up

428 Killgore Trout  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 8:43:25am

Here's a protest movement I support: A day used to celebrate marijuana
Happy 4-20, y'all!

429 AK-47%  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 8:44:10am

re: #424 Patricia Kayden

Ted Nugent has been making racist, sexist and generally hateful comments for years. The man vocally supported apartheid, for goodness sakes. Why did Fort Knox invite him in the first place?

Because it used to be considered that musicians were just entertainers and not crossover politicians. For some that still applies, but not to Ted.

Or the Dixie Chicks...

430 simoom  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 8:46:33am

Looks like the Romney Campaign is back to using the 'Obama Isn't Working' slogan again. Not just on a black-and-white banner but also on his podium:
Image: ObamaIsntWorking.jpg

Maybe it's his official campaign motto now -- sort of like 'Country First', though I suppose somewhat less positive and with slightly more dog whistle.

431 Gus  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 8:47:17am

Derp site "of the day."

First link.

432 Interesting Times  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 8:48:13am

Glenn Beck Mitt Romney is a soulless panderer.

433 Lidane  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 8:50:51am

GOP Senate Candidate John Raese Digs In On Equating No-Smoking Signs And Hitler — Won’t Be ‘Intimidated By A Bunch Of Bull***t’

Republican Senate candidate John Raese is standing by a controversial statement he made in his latest campaign for Senate from West Virginia — in which he compared mandatory no-smoking signs in businesses to the Star of David patches that Jews were forced to wear on their clothes in Nazi Germany.

“I can’t find anything in my statement and during my speech that wasn’t true,” Raese told the Charleston Daily Mail. “I’m not apologizing to anybody or any organization. It’s my perfect right to make a speech about meaningful subject matters in this country.”

He further said that the controversy was a result of Democratic video trackers, playing “gotcha.” “I am not going to be intimidated by a bunch of bullshit,” Raese said.

The two situations, Raese insisted, are analogous.

434 Gus  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 8:52:34am

re: #431 Gus

Derp site "of the day."

First link.

Mind boggling. It's even got "HAARP".

435 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 8:55:08am

re: #426 sattv4u2

Or moving into a gated community...
//

436 HappyWarrior  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 8:55:14am

re: #433 Lidane

GOP Senate Candidate John Raese Digs In On Equating No-Smoking Signs And Hitler — Won’t Be ‘Intimidated By A Bunch Of Bull***t’

It's not "gotcha" when you say it dumbass. Really what is with these morons.

437 HappyWarrior  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 8:56:46am

re: #430 simoom

Looks like the Romney Campaign is back to using the 'Obama Isn't Working' slogan again. Not just on a black-and-white banner but also on his podium:
Image: ObamaIsntWorking.jpg

Maybe it's his official campaign motto now -- sort of like 'Country First', though I suppose somewhat less positive and with slightly more dog whistle.

I thought Mitt wanted to talk about real issues, I guess not huh.

438 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 8:57:01am

re: #431 Gus

Pretty colors!/

439 Gus  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 8:57:30am

re: #438 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

Pretty colors!/

Sure is purrty.

440 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 8:57:52am

I fell asleep under the monotone droning of the Z proceedings.

441 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:00:35am

re: #433 Lidane

GOP Senate Candidate John Raese Digs In On Equating No-Smoking Signs And Hitler — Won’t Be ‘Intimidated By A Bunch Of Bull***t’

His analogy would only make sense if all smokers were required to wear armbands with a cigarette icon at all times, and were prohibited from entering any "no smoking" facilities even when they were not smoking.

442 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:00:42am

Somebody said boob thread? Here's a boob song that reminds me of LGF.

Youtube Video
443 Mich-again  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:00:42am

As a lifelong resident of the Detroit area, I say F* Ted and his stupid bullshit.

He can't even claim to be much of a hunter anymore now that he left Michigan and lives in Texas where they only hunt in fenced in yards and shoot animals that BillyBob just let off the chain 2 minutes ago.

Again. Michigan says F* You Ted. Don't come back now, ya hear.

444 lawhawk  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:01:08am

CNN has an interesting before-after satellite photo spread of urban sprawl. The one for Las Vegas is particularly illuminating since it not only shows the growth of Vegas, but the quickly receding Lake Powell behind Hoover dam.

445 Gus  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:01:57am

re: #438 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

Pretty colors!/

They even have Dees illustrations.

Debbie Schlussel seems to be on board.

446 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:05:13am

I don't want to start an abortion fight but I think this KosKid is an imbecile.

The fetus is a parasite.

I must have been out of school that day when they taught about babies starting off as a parasite.

447 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:05:57am

re: #371 lawhawk

Certainly, both candidates have been vetted. Now it's the time to remind the public of the results of vetting. They're not equal.

448 Obdicut  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:07:40am

re: #446 NJDhockeyfan

It's a bad analogy because biologists obviously treat fetuses and parasites differently-- the biological definition of a parasite would exclude a fetus-- but it is important remember the many ways in which a fetus takes a toll on the woman's system.

This is why the GOP's attempts to legalize lying to women about the health hazards of their pregnancy is so dangerous.

449 Shropshire_Slasher  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:10:56am

re: #421 lawhawk

Flock of Seagulls would make a great band name!

450 wrenchwench  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:10:59am

re: #446 NJDhockeyfan

I don't want to start an abortion fight but I think this KosKid is an imbecile.

The fetus is a parasite.

I must have been out of school that day when they taught about babies starting off as a parasite.

As an analogy, it has its strengths and weaknesses. That was apparently written as an opinion piece by a woman who has been there and done that, and I think she's entitled to share her perspective.

451 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:11:21am

re: #446 NJDhockeyfan

"imbecile"

It's not nice to those fellow Lizards who have made this comparison here, even though I disagree, since it's an incorrect term for the embryo/fetus.

452 Mattand  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:14:19am

re: #424 Patricia Kayden

Ted Nugent has been making racist, sexist and generally hateful comments for years. The man vocally supported apartheid, for goodness sakes. Why did Fort Knox invite him in the first place?

Most likely because the people who run the concert looked no further than "GOP '70s rocker who like guns." It's only when he started making questionable comments regarding the Commander-in-Chief that they realized who they were dealing with.

What I dont' get is why the Secret Service never visited Ted when he shouted at a concert that both Obama and Hillary could suck the gun barrel of the weapon he was holding. I believe they were both candidates at the time.

453 CuriousLurker  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:14:54am

re: #450 wrenchwench

As an analogy, it has its strengths and weaknesses. That was apparently written as an opinion piece by a woman who has been there and done that, and I think she's entitled to share her perspective.

It's technically correct as a dictionary definition, but it's certainly not a term I'd choose to use. Too many negative connotations. I agree, she's entitled to her opinion.

454 Mich-again  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:15:14am

Mitt's big contribution to the economy was as a vulture capitalist, which is essentially garbage picking in a suit. He never actually built a company from the ground up where he had to take an idea and turn it into a profitable business. Based on his experience he would not have any idea what to do with the American economy except how to sell off the good parts to the highest bidder and toss out the scraps. Why the GOP faithful considers a garbage picker a business genius is beyond me.

455 HappyWarrior  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:15:54am

re: #452 mattand

Most likely because the people who run the concert looked no further than "GOP '70s rocker who like guns." It's only when he started making questionable comments regarding the Commander-in-Chief that they realized who they were dealing with.

What I dont' get is why the Secret Service never visited Ted when he shouted at a concert that both Obama and Hillary could suck the gun barrel of the weapon he was holding. I believe they were both candidates at the time.

I don't get that either. Not like he hasn't said shit like this before. Anyhow, he's a pathetic loser. Oh look at me, I am telling people to suck the barrel of my gun yet I did everything possible to avoid serving my country. Tough guy right there who is actually just another coward.

456 CuriousLurker  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:16:07am

re: #431 Gus

Derp site "of the day."

First link.

LOL, they've hit on pretty much every conspiracy theory.

457 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:16:37am

re: #453 CuriousLurker

I disagree:

par·a·site   [par-uh-sahyt] Show IPA
noun
1.
an organism that lives on or in an organism of another species, known as the host, from the body of which it obtains nutriment.
2.
a person who receives support, advantage, or the like, from another or others without giving any useful or proper return, as one who lives on the hospitality of others.
3.
(in ancient Greece) a person who received free meals in return for amusing or impudent conversation, flattering remarks, etc.
Origin:
1530–40; < Latin parasītus < Greek parásītos one who eats at another's table, orig. adj.: feeding beside, equivalent to para- para-1 + sît ( os ) grain, food + -os adj. suffix

Synonyms
2. sycophant, toady, leech, sponge, hanger-on.

Fetus is neither of another species (1), nor a person at least until late in the game (2).

458 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:16:48am

Grenade launcher, major drug lab found at Eastlake home

SEATTLE —
Police found military-grade weapons, including a grenade launcher, and a major drug-making lab following a two-hour standoff at a home in Seattle’s Eastlake neighborhood Thursday night.

Seattle police had two armored tanks and snipers on the roofs of neighbors’ houses while eight people inside refused to come out of the home in the 2700 block of Minor Avenue East.

Eventually, SWAT crews launched percussion grenades, and the people inside emerged.

...“To hear that there are military-grade weapons is beyond the pale for all of us, I think,” said O'Connor-Nash, a neighborhood board member. Police told her what was found in the home. “Automatic weapons and a grenade launcher were mentioned, so that’s scary.”

A grenade launcher?

459 HappyWarrior  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:17:13am

re: #454 Mich-again

Mitt's big contribution to the economy was as a vulture capitalist, which is essentially garbage picking in a suit. He never actually built a company from the ground up where he had to take an idea and turn it into a profitable business. Based on his experience he would not have any idea what to do with the American economy except how to sell off the good parts to the highest bidder and toss out the scraps. Why the GOP faithful considers a garbage picker a business genius is beyond me.

Yep, I mean this isn't some guy who had an innovative idea. This is a guy who did exactly what you say. If he wants to argue his experience as a business executive qualifies him, let's actually look at what he did.

460 CuriousLurker  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:19:00am

re: #457 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

I disagree:

Fetus is neither of another species (1), nor a person at least until late in the game (2).

Okay, you win. ;)

461 Shropshire_Slasher  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:20:39am

So we are all/were parasites. My ex was right!

462 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:20:54am

re: #457 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

I disagree:

Fetus is neither of another species (1), nor a person at least until late in the game (2).

My parasitic brother will be happy to hear about it!
//

463 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:21:14am

re: #460 CuriousLurker

Okay, you win. ;)

Youtube Video
464 CuriousLurker  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:21:21am

re: #457 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

Hey when are you gonna change your nic to "Nikolai, President, Bank of Nikolai"?

465 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:22:18am

Of course, those who do believe fetus constitutions a person pretty much most of the time... have no choice but to apply the second definition! /

466 Mich-again  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:22:47am

re: #459 HappyWarrior

And he can't even get his taxers done on time like everyone else because garbage picking is very complicated. Its hard to know how much that old chair you yanked out of the trash is worth until you can sell it on eBay.

It cracked me up to read GOPers rationalize why it would take Mitt's company months to figure out his 2011 tax statements. Figures can't lie but Liars can figure and that shit takes time to get it all straight.

Mitt. Vote for me. I'm like Fred Sanford except I'm white and my pickup truck is a limo.

467 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:23:00am

re: #464 CuriousLurker

Hey when are you gonna change your nic to "Nikolai, President, Bank of Nikolai"?

Haven't I been there already?

468 CuriousLurker  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:23:32am

re: #467 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

Haven't I been there already?

Darn, I must've missed it.

469 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:24:04am

re: #468 CuriousLurker

I think there was something Nikolai-related.

470 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:25:05am

re: #464 CuriousLurker

The more the Breivik trial goes on, the more pathetic he seems.

I think there is chance the harsh treatment of Breivik on the stand by the prosecution will actually break him.

471 CuriousLurker  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:25:19am

Okay, it looks like a slow news day so far. Any guesses as to what Charles' first article will be about?

472 palomino  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:25:27am

re: #466 Mich-again

And he can't even get his taxers done on time like everyone else because the business of garbage picking is very complicated. Its hard to know how much that old chair you yanked out of the trash is worth until you can sell it on eBay.

It cracked me up to read GOPers rationalize why it would take Mitt's company months to figure out his 2011 tax statements. Figures can't lie but Liars can figure and that shit takes time to get it all straight.

Mitt. Vote for me. I'm like Fred Sanford except I'm white and my pickup truck is a limo.

That last line is hysterical. Great Sanford & Son reference.

473 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:25:36am

re: #469 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

Yeah, I remember you have a nic with "Nikolai" in it.

474 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:26:01am

A Ph.D In Beards

Everything you need to know about facial hair in one infographic.

475 HappyWarrior  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:26:31am

re: #466 Mich-again

And he can't even get his taxers done on time like everyone else because the business of garbage picking is very complicated. Its hard to know how much that old chair you yanked out of the trash is worth until you can sell it on eBay.

It cracked me up to read GOPers rationalize why it would take Mitt's company months to figure out his 2011 tax statements. Figures can't lie but Liars can figure and that shit takes time to get it all straight.

Mitt. Vote for me. I'm like Fred Sanford except I'm white and my pickup truck is a limo.

Hasn't he also said he's been "unemployed" too and that the 100K plus he gets from speaking engagements isn't that much? I mean it just amazes me how out of touch Mitt is. I mean I understand he's wealthy but gosh you would think his handlers would be at least saying Hey Mitt, voters don't like snobby jerks who think they're better than everyone else.

476 CuriousLurker  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:27:08am

re: #470 ProGunLiberal

The more the Breivik trial goes on, the more pathetic he seems.

I think there is chance the harsh treatment of Breivik on the stand by the prosecution will actually break him.

I don't see him breaking. He's got too much invested in his paranoid delusion.

477 Gus  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:27:33am

This is kind of stupid.

All About Indonesian Dog Meat

Warning on the images here. The stupid part is in bold:

These images (and the vastly more horrifying ones that emerged from a recent investigation into the dog-meat trade in China) are certainly jarring, but the fact of the matter is that the squeamishness and outrage that this subject seems to generate is somewhat misplaced. When I raised this issue with Matt Prescott, who is the Food Policy Director at the Humane Society of the United States, he brushed it off:

Abusing dogs for their meat is certainly horrible. Though it’s important to note that the way chickens and pigs are abused on U.S. factory farms is also horrific, with animals crammed into tiny cages and crates, suffering immensely for much of their lives.

If that's the case, we should probably drop this whole obscure Indonesian dog meat issue and ask both the candidates about these pictures. I won't hold my breath.

Has this knuckledhead stopped to think about the millions of dogs that are destroyed each year in this country alone? The 100s of military dogs that are put down each year? He won't hold his breath for what? That the presidential candidates won't answer some question posed by a Buzzfeed blogger?

478 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:29:50am

re: #454 Mich-again

Mitt's big contribution to the economy was as a vulture capitalist, which is essentially garbage picking in a suit. He never actually built a company from the ground up where he had to take an idea and turn it into a profitable business. Based on his experience he would not have any idea what to do with the American economy except how to sell off the good parts to the highest bidder and toss out the scraps. Why the GOP faithful considers a garbage picker a business genius is beyond me.

Tim the Enchanter: Look at the bones!

479 Mich-again  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:29:56am

re: #470 ProGunLiberal

The more the Breivik trial goes on, the more pathetic he seems.

I think there is chance the harsh treatment of Breivik on the stand by the prosecution will actually break him.

And while I'm in a pissy mood. F* Breivik too. His hero was that asshole Fjordman, and those of you have been around here long enough may remember I was the first LGFer who started calling out Fjordman in threads just like this one for being a racist dickhead. Yeah he used to post his Deport them all bullshit here and a lot of the Lizards would lap it up. Some of us told him to FOAD. I took some shit for not being respectful of such an intellect.

And now I'm telling you Ted is a loser and Mitt has no F-ing idea what he is doing.

480 Gus  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:31:01am

Image: animal-crematorium-photo.jpg

481 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:31:20am

re: #477 Gus

He was being ironic though. The picture he references is at the bottom:

Image: enhanced-buzz-2561-1334929307-15.jpg

482 Gus  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:31:53am

re: #481 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

He was being ironic though. The picture he references is at the bottom:

Image: enhanced-buzz-2561-1334929307-15.jpg

Oh I'm sick and tired of these ironic idiots.

483 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:32:16am

re: #477 Gus

This is kind of stupid.

All About Indonesian Dog Meat

Warning on the images here. The stupid part is in bold:

Has this knuckledhead stopped to think about the millions of dogs that are destroyed each year in this country alone? The 100s of military dogs that are put down each year? He won't hold his breath for what? That the presidential candidates won't answer some question posed by a Buzzfeed blogger?

Is this person a PETA supporter? What does he think about PETA's abuse of women?

485 Mich-again  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:33:09am

re: #481 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

HA. The guy on the left looks afraid that some sauce is going to get on his shirt. The guy on the right is like Hells Yes.

486 Gus  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:33:10am

re: #483 Learned Mother of Zion

Is this person a PETA supporter? What does he think about PETA's abuse of women?

Don't know.

487 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:33:36am

re: #483 Learned Mother of Zion

No, he's making a point that what is done to dogs in Indonesia is not better than what is done to chickens in the US, so those who raise the issue of dog meat are being hypocrites.

488 HappyWarrior  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:33:52am

re: #484 Varek Raith

CNN's Dana Loesch Attacks MSNBC's Martin Bashir As "A Foreigner" Who Shouldn't Cover Media Or Politics "In This Country"

Does Dana feel the same way about John Derbyshire, that one pompous British ass on Fox News, Rupert Murdoch?

489 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:34:11am

re: #485 Mich-again

HA. The guy on the right looks afraid that some sauce is going to get on his shirt. The guy on the right is like Hells Yes.

NOM NOM NOM

490 Gus  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:34:13am

re: #487 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

No, he's making a point that what is done to dogs in Indonesia is not better than what is done to chickens in the US, so those who raise the issue of dog meat are being hypocrites.

That was the humane society guy.

491 Mich-again  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:34:27am

re: #484 Varek Raith

CNN's Dana Loesch Attacks MSNBC's Martin Bashir As "A Foreigner" Who Shouldn't Cover Media Or Politics "In This Country"

The classic, you aren't one of us so you can't help here line of BS.

492 Gus  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:34:34am

Humane. Not human. lol

493 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:35:23am

re: #490 Gus

That was the humane society guy.

In the quote, yes. I mean the buzzfeed guy who uses him as a foil.

494 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:36:11am

MMM, tasty chicken. Pass the arugula!

495 lawhawk  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:37:34am

re: #466 Mich-again

Opting to use an extension to file taxes does not mean that he can delay paying the tax. The states and fed have specific rules on extensions.

The extensions are automatic if you file an extension form for fed - but they specifically note that it doesn't extend your time to pay.

So, while we wont know his specific taxes, credits, deductions, etc., he's still had to pay his tax obligations by April 17.

Addendum: if you think he's delaying to avoid the political fallout now, note too that the return extensions are due October 15 - just weeks before the election. Now, he might end up dropping off the returns during the summer or on a Friday night news dump, but it will be scrutinized more because of the delay than if he did so by the April 17 deadline.

496 wrenchwench  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:37:57am

re: #479 Mich-again

Some of us told him to FOAD. I took some shit for not being respectful of such an intellect.

Good for you! I started telling him he was full of shit when he said Mexico was going to conquer the US. Then I started saying the length of his essays and long quotes from other sources was an effort to disguise his bullshit. I don't think I actually said 'shit', though.

497 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:38:24am

re: #487 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

No, he's making a point that what is done to dogs in Indonesia is not better than what is done to chickens in the US, so those who raise the issue of dog meat are being hypocrites.

Yeah well, PETA is all about what is being done to chickens and pigs, and they use naked women to make their point.

Of course they can say that the nubile young ladies are volunteers.

498 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:39:49am

re: #497 Learned Mother of Zion

How did that ad go? "PETA hates her! That Babushka likes her steak!"? /

499 Gus  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:39:57am

re: #493 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

In the quote, yes. I mean the buzzfeed guy who uses him as a foil.

Well. I'm kind of not working on all cylinders this morning. Anyway. My point is how can anyone be aghast to these images, let alone the notion of eating dog-meat, when we scoop up dogs from the streets and stick them and shelters. Most of which wind up being "destroyed" either with lethal injections, gas chambers, or vacuum chambers. The deaths numbers in the millions every year.

500 Gus  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:41:45am

Image: Spalding-Chamber-2small1.jpg

501 wrenchwench  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:42:02am

re: #494 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

MMM, tasty chicken. Pass the arugula!

...

19th Apr 2012 | 74 notes
Anonymous asked: Hey, my co-worker says shit like "we black people love our fried chicken" and "she's got some black in her cuz she loves fried chicken more than me." She thinks it's racist that I say, "no, you and she like fried chicken for the same reason all non-vegetarians do--it's delicious!" Question being: is defeating someone attempting to own a stereotype racist?

One thing I’ve learned since starting this site is that people spend more time talking about fried chicken than I ever thought possible, by like a factor of 1.5 billion.

502 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:42:05am

re: #499 Gus

True, I agree. And I like that the author makes the similar point, only via chickens. Although yours is much stronger actually. The dog is human's best friend as long as it's not stray. Then it becomes the worst enemy...

503 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:42:28am

re: #498 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

How did that ad go? "PETA hates her! That Babushka likes her steak!"? /

All the ads have this format: [some privileged elites] hate [the mom]! [for discovering their seekrit "trick"]

504 Varek Raith  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:42:28am

:(

505 Mich-again  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:43:07am

BTW, I remember way back when Ted met his wife Shamain or whatever her name is. He was a 40ish washed up rocker guest hosting a radio show in town and his now-wife was an intern or maybe a new hire who worked at the radio station as the traffic girl. Thats how they met. He was a washed up rocker old man infatuated with the much younger lady at the office and used his position of power to convince her to go out shopping and then date and Voila!. It wasn't a secret, it was all part of his week on the radio show. Sort of akin to a certain ex-President who used his position of power to get a young intern to ... in the oval office.

Really, No one ever mentions that part about Ted and his much younger wife, but that is how they met. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but I bet if you asked Ted about Bill Clinton and Monica, he'd recite the typical wingnuttery line.

506 CuriousLurker  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:43:18am

re: #484 Varek Raith

CNN's Dana Loesch Attacks MSNBC's Martin Bashir As "A Foreigner" Who Shouldn't Cover Media Or Politics "In This Country"

Ugly bigotry starts getting hurled at Bashir via Twitter in 5...4...3...

507 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:43:21am

re: #504 Varek Raith

:(

Aww.

508 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:43:21am

I like fried chicken.

509 Gus  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:43:28am

re: #504 Varek Raith

:(

Am I bumming you out?

510 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:43:52am

re: #508 Learned Mother of Zion

I like fried chicken.

What a coincidence...

511 CuriousLurker  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:44:00am

re: #504 Varek Raith

:(

??

512 Varek Raith  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:44:28am

re: #509 Gus

Am I bumming you out?

Yes.
Jerk.
:P

513 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:44:30am

Democrats Joining G.O.P. on Pipeline

WASHINGTON — President Obama is finding himself increasingly boxed in on the Keystone pipeline fight as more Congressional Democrats are joining Republicans in backing the project, which has strong labor support and could generate significant numbers of jobs in economically hard-hit states.

On Wednesday, the House passed a short-term transportation bill that included a provision that would pave the way for the construction of the next stage of the oil pipeline, a measure that Mr. Obama has said he would veto. The bill passed 293 to 127, with 69 Democrats supporting it.

It is the fourth time the House has passed a measure to expedite the project; one failed narrowly in the Senate only after Mr. Obama personally lobbied some Democrats to vote no. With the House vote, Mr. Obama finds himself, for the first time in his presidency, threatening a veto on a significant piece of legislation that enjoys the support of an increasing number of Democrats, as well as the vast majority of Republicans in Congress.

514 Varek Raith  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:45:41am

re: #513 NJDhockeyfan

Democrats Joining G.O.P. on Pipeline

Too bad TransCanada is full of shit with its projections about how many jobs it would actually create.

515 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:45:47am

re: #495 lawhawk

Opting to use an extension to file taxes does not mean that he can delay paying the tax. The states and fed have specific rules on extensions.

The extensions are automatic if you file an extension form for fed - but they specifically note that it doesn't extend your time to pay.

So, while we wont know his specific taxes, credits, deductions, etc., he's still had to pay his tax obligations by April 17.

Addendum: if you think he's delaying to avoid the political fallout now, note too that the return extensions are due October 15 - just weeks before the election. Now, he might end up dropping off the returns during the summer or on a Friday night news dump, but it will be scrutinized more because of the delay than if he did so by the April 17 deadline.

Heck, mine aren't officially done either. All you need is one company/partnership/whatever not getting their income report form to you and you end up having to pay estimated amounts and file for extensions. Second year in a row it has happened to me, and from the same partnership being incapable of generating a K-1 form in a timely manner.

And I paid the amounts estimated to be owed. But no final filing until that missing form is received and processed. So I forego my Federal refund in the meantime. :(

516 Gus  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:46:08am

California outlawed the use of decompression chambers.

517 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:46:13am

I could bum everyone out by showing a video of live chickens being ground in some machine. Seems like a standard industry procedure. Of course, it's easier to complain about Indonesia...

518 sagehen  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:46:37am

re: #471 CuriousLurker

Okay, it looks like a slow news day so far. Any guesses as to what Charles' first article will be about?

Zimmerman gets bail.

519 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:47:01am

re: #514 Varek Raith

Too bad TransCanada is full of shit with its projections about how many jobs it would actually create.

How do you know?

520 Gus  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:47:27am

re: #517 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

I could bum everyone out by showing a video of live chickens being ground in some machine. Seems like a standard industry procedure. Of course, it's easier to complain about Indonesia...

Image: 31487006_82321bc16a.jpg

521 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:47:32am

re: #517 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

I could bum everyone out by showing a video of live chickens being ground in some machine. Seems like a standard industry procedure. Of course, it's easier to complain about Indonesia...

Pink slime! Now with beaks and feathers!

522 Varek Raith  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:47:58am

re: #519 NJDhockeyfan

How do you know?

Because they have a history of over exaggeration.
They've been called on it in Canada multiple times.

523 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:48:03am

re: #506 CuriousLurker

Ugly bigotry starts getting hurled at Bashir via Twitter in 5...4...3...

I expect he's getting enough flak for his comments on Romney's religion.

524 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:48:14am

re: #521 Learned Mother of Zion

Pink slime! Now with beaks and feathers!

And a bit of shit, for the taste.

525 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:48:48am

ie9 keeps crashing.

526 wrenchwench  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:48:59am

Time to assemble a nice, vegetarian mountain bike.

527 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:49:06am

re: #522 Varek Raith

Because they have a history of over exaggeration.
They've been called on it in Canada multiple times.

They must have the unions fooled then because they want this pipeline.

528 Eventual Carrion  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:49:13am

re: #335 RogueOne

This one is funnier:

Brian Schweitzer: Mitt Romney’s ‘Family Came From a Polygamy Commune in Mexico’
[Link: www.thedailybeast.com...]

2 birds, 1 stone: fereigner and polygamist!

It it true?

529 palomino  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:49:16am

re: #484 Varek Raith

CNN's Dana Loesch Attacks MSNBC's Martin Bashir As "A Foreigner" Who Shouldn't Cover Media Or Politics "In This Country"

Following that logic, reporters should never leave their home countries to report on anything. Sound like a good idea?

530 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:50:08am

I don't see what the brouhaha about Bashir and Mormonism is about. He did not quote any bad passages.

531 Varek Raith  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:50:37am

re: #527 NJDhockeyfan

They must have the unions fooled then because they want this pipeline.

Still doesn't change the fact that what TransCanada is promising will not materialize.
But, whatever.

532 Mich-again  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:50:58am

re: #513 NJDhockeyfan

Canada wants that pipeline so they can get their oil out to the Gulf and export it. There is already enough oil at the American storage facility in Cushing Oklahoma.

True that it would create American jobs temporarily building the pipeline, can't argue that. But it is a lie to say more oil to Cushing will help the American consumer.

Now, there are a lot of oil refineries in the Gulf area and that extra oil could be refined there, but then the trick is getting the gasoline to the other American markets on the East and West coast where refinery capacity is not as high.

However, the Jones Act (which is trade protection for merchant marines) prevents the refined oil from the Gulf from ever reaching those other American markets.

So to play it right, Obama should approve the pipeline as long as the either the Jones Act is set aside for moving refined oil to other ports, or the new pipeline is not used just to transport Canadian oil to the Gulf of Mexico for export. One or the other.

533 HappyWarrior  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:51:09am

re: #530 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

I don't see what the brouhaha about Bashir and Mormonism is about. He did not quote any bad passages.

What did he say/do? Not that it anyway merits attacking him for not being an American national mind you.

534 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:51:14am

Democrats expressing buyers’ remorse on Obama's healthcare law

An increasing number of Democrats are taking potshots at President Obama’s healthcare law ahead of a Supreme Court decision that could overturn it.

The public grievances have come from centrists and liberals and reflect rising anxiety ahead of November’s elections.

Maybe if they read the bill before they voted for it they might be feeling a little better about themselves.

535 CuriousLurker  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:51:43am

re: #523 NJDhockeyfan

I expect he's getting enough flak for his comments on Romney's religion.

Probably. But Loesch & the breitbots specialize in slime.

536 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:52:19am

re: #533 HappyWarrior

What did he say/do? Not that it anyway merits attacking him for not being an American national mind you.

He quoted prohibitions against lying from the Mormon scriptures. Now it is said that he "brought Mormonism into it". I would get it if he quoted anything controversial, of which there is a ton...

537 Eventual Carrion  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:52:20am

re: #337 NJDhockeyfan

Democrat Governor goes farther attacking Romney's faith...

Is what he said factual?

538 HappyWarrior  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:53:05am

re: #535 CuriousLurker

Probably. But Loesch & the breitbots specialize in slime.

So they're like Nickeledeon and also like Nick, their biggest audience are people with brains for 10 year olds.

539 HappyWarrior  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:54:02am

re: #536 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

He quoted prohibitions against lying from the Mormon scriptures. Now it is said that he "brought Mormonism into it". I would get if he quoted anything controversial, of which there is a ton...

I don't see that as attacking Romney's Mormonism. Now asking whether Mormons believe Satan is Jesus's brother or whatever silliness Huckabee said is.

540 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:55:34am

re: #537 RayFerd

Is what he said factual?

It was pretty irrelevant in that context. To juxtapose it with Bashir, Bashir made a good point about Romney not being honest. This guy's words on the other hand were pretty irrelevant to anything Romney does. So it's a silly attack.

541 allegro  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:56:14am

re: #537 RayFerd

Is what he said factual?

Shhh, you'll spoil the meme that Mormonism was "attacked". It wasn't, of course and neither was Romney "attacked" for being a Mormon. He was criticized for being a lying hypocrite. This is true.

542 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:56:52am

re: #541 allegro

In the case about which Ray asks, he was attacked.

543 lawhawk  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:57:33am

re: #513 NJDhockeyfan

You do realize that Transcanada has now proposed an alternative route for the pipeline that avoids the Sandhills and other ecologically sensitive areas in the subject area and that might be sufficient to get the Administration to back the route. That was one of the main objections to the pipeline in the first place - that it was going through the Sandhills, which is a vital aquifer for Nebraska.

Unveiled on Thursday, the map of TransCanada's preferred alternative steers the new Keystone pipeline route well east of the sensitive Nebraska Sandhills region. Both Democrats and Republicans in the state had raised concerns about potential impacts by the pipeline to farms as well as water supplies in that area.

When the locals object to the pipeline's routing on a bipartisan basis, you know that there's something to the Administration's reluctance to support that routing.

That doesn't even touch on the jobs claims.

544 Varek Raith  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:57:46am

re: #534 NJDhockeyfan

Democrats expressing buyers’ remorse on Obama's healthcare law

Maybe if they read the bill before they voted for it they might be feeling a little better about themselves.

Most of them are citing political reasons.
Spineless wimps.

545 kirkspencer  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:57:53am

re: #527 NJDhockeyfan

They must have the unions fooled then because they want this pipeline.

Some unions want the pipeline.

546 allegro  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:57:58am

re: #542 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

In the case about which Ray asks, he was attacked.

How was he attacked? Is legitimate criticism during a Presidential campaign an attack?

547 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:58:59am

To repeat:

While discussing swing states, Schweitzer said Romney would have a “tall order to position Hispanics to vote for him,” and I replied that was mildly ironic since Mitt’s father was born in Mexico, giving the clan a nominal claim to being Hispanic. Schweitzer replied that it is “kinda ironic given that his family came from a polygamy commune in Mexico, but then he’d have to talk about his family coming from a polygamy commune in Mexico, given the gender discrepancy.” Women, he said, are “not great fans of polygamy, 86 percent were not great fans of polygamy. I am not alleging by any stretch that Romney is a polygamist and approves of [the] polygamy lifestyle, but his father was born into [a] polygamy commune in Mexico.”

All of this was unnecessary and did not shine any light on Romney's character. Why was it brought up? To associate Romney with old practices, long gone.

548 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 9:59:21am

re: #546 allegro

How was he attacked? Is legitimate criticism during a Presidential campaign an attack?

I have explained how he was attacked.

549 sagehen  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 10:00:16am

re: #528 RayFerd

It it true?

Yes.

One of the conditions for Utah to achieve Statehood was they had to outlaw polygamy. So the top Mormon... elders? council? whatever they are... suddenly had a revelation that God didn't want men to have multiple wives after all. God changed his mind!!

Mitt's grandfather already had 3 or 4 wives at that point, so him and some others in the same situation took their families to Mexico to start up a traditional Mormon town there (but retaining American citizenship (being born in a Territory was just as American as being born in a State)). That's where Mitt's Dad was born.

Decades later, there was a Mexican revolution, and some land seizures, and the American Mormons (who weren't polygamists anymore, except for a few very very old people who hadn't had to dissolve already existing multiple marriages when the change was ordered) repatriated. And according to Lawrence's show last night, they didn't come home penniless, the US Gov't gave them big fat checks to help them start over here. (And they eventually recovered title to the land).

550 palomino  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 10:00:34am

re: #534 NJDhockeyfan

Democrats expressing buyers’ remorse on Obama's healthcare law

Maybe if they read the bill before they voted for it they might be feeling a little better about themselves.

The criticisms were not on the substantive elements of the bill. They were merely opinions that Obama mishandled things politically. Still a disgrace that we're the only developed nation without some form of comprehensive health care.

551 allegro  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 10:01:16am

re: #547 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

To repeat:

All of this was unnecessary and did not shine any light on Romney's character. Why was it brought up? To associate Romney with old practices, long gone.

Since he mentioned the Bashir report, I assumed that was the report he was calling an attack. Two different things. I agree that whatever Romney's grandfather did is irrelevant. The Bashir report didn't discuss this I don't think.

552 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 10:02:09am

The interesting point about the Mormon polygamy is that it continued after the appearance of the anti-polygamy manifesto. I.e. they were breaking their own proclaimed rules. Good introduction to this issue is Michael Quinn's article:

[Link: www.lds-mormon.com...]

553 HappyWarrior  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 10:02:56am

I agree that attacking Romney's grandfather isn't relevant at all to him. I do think it's kind of funny seeing the right get outraged about that after they've said nasty shit about Obama's parents.

554 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 10:03:32am

re: #551 allegro

Since he mentioned the Bashir report, I assumed that was the report he was calling an attack. Two different things. I agree that whatever Romney's grandfather did is irrelevant. The Bashir report didn't discuss this I don't think.

I don't think this particular chain of comments, which started with [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...] , to which Ray's comment was a reply, mentioned Bashir.

555 Gus  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 10:06:58am

Oh. Just listened to Bashir. Ummmmm. Uhhhhh.

556 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 10:08:49am

re: #555 Gus

Oh. Just listened to Bashir. Ummm. Uhhh.

Maybe there was something else there, I only go by one quote of course.

557 Gus  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 10:20:32am

re: #556 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

Maybe there was something else there, I only go by one quote of course.

Well. For me it was dumb. As an atheist I find what he is quoting to be hooey in the first place. But then him turning around and using it to "damn" Romney based on a belief he doesn't adhere to is equally dumb.

558 CuriousLurker  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 10:23:49am

re: #554 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

I suspect part of what may be causing twitching is that, based on his name, people assume Bashir is a Muslim. From the Real Clear Politics article, where I first read about it (emphasis mine):

One wonders why Bashir dragged Mormonism into his condemnation of Romney when all religions, such as Islam, forbid the practice of lying.

Note that the Real Clear Politics article links "such as Islam" to an article titled Lying in Islam that starts off seemingly okay, but quickly devolves into screeching about "duplicity within Islam" and basically saying that it's standard fare (the taqiyyah thing again). The site in question is not an Islamic one, it is run by a Christian ministry that has a pretty clear anti-Islam agenda.

FWIW, Bashir is actually a "committed Christian", British born, of Pakistani origin. There's quite a lot about his background in this article.

559 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 10:25:30am

re: #557 Gus

Pretty much dumb, yeah. I just won't jump onto the "Bashir attacks Mormons" bandwagon.

560 HappyWarrior  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 10:26:29am

re: #558 CuriousLurker

I suspect part of what may be causing twitching is that, based on his name, people assume Bashir is a Muslim. From the Real Clear Politics article, where I first read about it (emphasis mine):

Note that the Real Clear Politics article links "such as Islam" to an article titled Lying in Islam that starts off seemingly okay, but quickly devolves into screeching about "duplicity within Islam" and basically saying that it's standard fare (the taqiyyah thing again). The site in question is not an Islamic one, it is run by a Christian ministry that has a pretty clear anti-Islam agenda.

FWIW, Bashir is actually a "committed Christian", British born, of Pakistani origin. There's quite a lot about his background in this article.

People are idiots like that. Like when they attacked Sikhs after 9-11 for "being Muslim."

561 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 10:27:39am

re: #558 CuriousLurker

Also, the argument is incorrect - most forbid lying, but there can be different repercussions. The passages Bashir quoted are pretty severe. That said, to quote the Book of Mormon is not the same as to establish what a Mormon believes - because BoM has pretty much a different theology and set of commandments than the later Mormon scriptures and sacred instructions. BoM is still closer to the Bible, while the later developments veer off into more exotic venues.

562 CuriousLurker  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 10:30:28am

re: #558 CuriousLurker

I suspect part of what may be causing twitching is that, based on his name, people assume Bashir is a Muslim. From the Real Clear Politics article, where I first read about it (emphasis mine):

One wonders why Bashir dragged Mormonism into his condemnation of Romney when all religions, such as Islam, forbid the practice of lying.

Note that the Real Clear Politics article links "such as Islam" to an article titled Lying in Islam that starts off seemingly okay, but quickly devolves into screeching about "duplicity within Islam" and basically saying that it's standard fare (the taqiyyah thing again). The site in question is not an Islamic one, it is run by a Christian ministry that has a pretty clear anti-Islam agenda.

FWIW, Bashir is actually a "committed Christian", British born, of Pakistani origin. There's quite a lot about his background in this article.

Damn, I missed the edit window. Here's the the link to the Real Clear Politics article.

563 wrenchwench  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 10:36:03am

re: #549 sagehen

Decades later, there was a Mexican revolution, and some land seizures, and the American Mormons (who weren't polygamists anymore, except for a few very very old people who hadn't had to dissolve already existing multiple marriages when the change was ordered) repatriated. And according to Lawrence's show last night, they didn't come home penniless, the US Gov't gave them big fat checks to help them start over here. (And they eventually recovered title to the land).

The communities are still there, including some Romneys. I don't think they're still practicing polygamy, though, which has also been illegal in Mexico all along.

564 Eventual Carrion  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 11:04:48am

re: #446 NJDhockeyfan

I don't want to start an abortion fight but I think this KosKid is an imbecile.

The fetus is a parasite.

I must have been out of school that day when they taught about babies starting off as a parasite.

You were in medical school and didn't pay attention. That is where you learn that kind of stuff (or being curious enough to pursue on your own), not high school biology. And yes, the body of a pregnant woman is constantly trying to get rid of the growing foreign object. The body sees it as foreign (as it has DNA that is not of the woman's body).

565 Eventual Carrion  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 12:09:02pm

re: #554 Capricious Casserole of Calamity

I don't think this particular chain of comments, which started with [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...] , to which Ray's comment was a reply, mentioned Bashir.

I actually asked it of both comments that mentioned Mexico and the polygamy "commune". I wanted to know if there was basis in truth to the statement that he was from a family that lived in that situation. All the other stuff really means nothing to me of any matter, but making those kind of accusations, if false, is as dumb as the birther shite. If true then there is nothing to get upset about because it is, you know, true.

566 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Apr 20, 2012 12:10:50pm

re: #565 RayFerd

If true then there is nothing to get upset about because it is, you know, true.

1. Is it true that Obama ate dog meat?
2. Are the current rwnj statements about Obama eating dogmeat something to be upset about?


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