In the past few years there’s been an explosion of amazingly talented acoustic guitarists, and here’s another one I’ve just discovered: Maneli Jamal, a self-taught Persian musician now living in Canada. Beautifully clean and rhythmically accurate finger-picking.
Youtube Video3 |
HappyWarrior Sat, Apr 21, 2012 11:33:26am |
Thanks. Not too many sites you can get interesting discussion and good tunes. This guy is really good.
| 4 |
Digital Display Sat, Apr 21, 2012 11:38:57am |
There is some licks there that sound so dang familiar.. What song is that?
| 5 |
Digital Display Sat, Apr 21, 2012 11:45:19am |
And now my outrage today.. I don't have many.
The Wall Street Journal is reporting that the Tea Party may defeat Sen. Lugar (IN) in the primary in 2 weeks. He isn't hard core RW enough.
He's a moderate 35 yr. Senator that reaches across the gulf to get things done for America. We need more Sen. Lugars.. Not less.
Effen you Tea Party...You finally pissed me off to no end.
| 6 |
dragonfire1981 Sat, Apr 21, 2012 11:50:26am |
re: #5 HoosierHoops
And now my outrage today.. I don't have many.
The Wall Street Journal is reporting that the Tea Party may defeat Sen. Lugar (IN) in the primary in 2 weeks. He isn't hard core RW enough.
He's a moderate 35 yr. Senator that reaches across the gulf to get things done for America. We need more Sen. Lugars.. Not less.
Effen you Tea Party...You finally pissed me off to no end.
I am surprised it took them so long in your case.
| 7 |
Sol Berdinowitz Sat, Apr 21, 2012 11:51:34am |
re: #5 HoosierHoops
And now my outrage today.. I don't have many.
The Wall Street Journal is reporting that the Tea Party may defeat Sen. Lugar (IN) in the primary in 2 weeks. He isn't hard core RW enough.
He's a moderate 35 yr. Senator that reaches across the gulf to get things done for America. We need more Sen. Lugars.. Not less.
Effen you Tea Party...You finally pissed me off to no end.
Just give them enough rope, so to speak. They will be the demise of a major American political party.
| 9 |
austin_blue Sat, Apr 21, 2012 12:05:44pm |
And at half time, in Barcelona, it is Real Madrid 1 and Barca 0.
| 10 |
Kronocide Sat, Apr 21, 2012 12:10:03pm |
Protecting the environment is surely a worthy goal. But as a layman, I don't understand how the scientists invoked could always be sure of these things. Things like the notion that man's activities (more exactly, man's activities in developed countries) are what supposedly cause various catastrophes in nature.Thirty five years ago, many scientists warned of the catastrophe of the earth cooling. In the short span since, it heated up so much so that we're now at risk for global warming?
Ignorance is the greatest catastrophe.
| 11 |
Mich-again Sat, Apr 21, 2012 12:13:11pm |
re: #10 Kronocide
Climate denial is collective cognitive dissonance for greedy people who don't want to admit to their offspring that they really don't give a flying F* what kind of world they leave behind.
| 12 |
wrenchwench Sat, Apr 21, 2012 12:22:37pm |
Frank says:My music is like a movie for your ear.
So is Maneli Jamal's.
I think he's living in Toronto. His girlfriend is in Austin, where he used to live. But the stuff I was reading (his website and Facebook page) could be out of date.
| 13 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Apr 21, 2012 12:24:58pm |
re: #12 wrenchwench
So is Maneli Jamal's.
I think he's living in Toronto. His girlfriend is in Austin, where he used to live. But the stuff I was reading (his website and Facebook page) could be out of date.
Ah, OK. I was going by the description in one of his YouTube videos, probably out of date too.
| 14 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Apr 21, 2012 12:26:07pm |
Here's his website, in fact: [Link: www.manelijamal.com...]
| 15 |
wrenchwench Sat, Apr 21, 2012 12:27:03pm |
That's a pretty high tech looking capo. Is it on four strings or five?
| 17 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Apr 21, 2012 12:30:13pm |
re: #15 wrenchwench
That's a pretty high tech looking capo. Is it on four strings or five?
I believe it's on the bottom four strings. He crosses over and plays above the capo at one point.
| 18 |
Mich-again Sat, Apr 21, 2012 12:32:01pm |
From Frank Says:
Some people crave baseball -- I find this unfathomable
Frank probably never spent much time playing catch with his son in the street, yelling CAR and asking neighbors for a LITTLE HELP!
As my youngest son finishes out his baseball career in his senior season of high school and I start to realize the days of playing catch are probably coming to an end soon, I get kind of sentimemtal just thinking about all the thousands of times we've played catch in front of the house in the street. Frank, that is the first quote I've read from you that made me think how very little you might just know about life..
| 19 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Apr 21, 2012 12:38:35pm |
Some people crave baseball *and* football. Doubly unfathomable.
| 20 |
Kragar Sat, Apr 21, 2012 12:45:27pm |
Brian Schweitzer: Mitt Romney’s ‘Family Came From a Polygamy Commune in Mexico’
The Daily Beast contacted the office of Montana Gov. Brian Schweitzer today to talk about whether his state would be in play in the 2012 presidential election. About a half hour later, the governor called back, and he had a lot to say. He didn’t think that Montana would be a swing state, but the Democrat did say that Mitt Romney could have issues nationally because his father was “born on a polygamy commune in Mexico.”
While discussing swing states, Schweitzer said Romney would have a “tall order to position Hispanics to vote for him,” and I replied that was mildly ironic since Mitt’s father was born in Mexico, giving the clan a nominal claim to being Hispanic. Schweitzer replied that it is “kinda ironic given that his family came from a polygamy commune in Mexico, but then he’d have to talk about his family coming from a polygamy commune in Mexico, given the gender discrepancy.” Women, he said, are “not great fans of polygamy, 86 percent were not great fans of polygamy. I am not alleging by any stretch that Romney is a polygamist and approves of [the] polygamy lifestyle, but his father was born into [a] polygamy commune in Mexico.”
/faceplam
| 21 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 21, 2012 12:49:11pm |
re: #20 Kragar
"Mr. Romney will now be asked to provide all long form marriage licenses for himself and all his forebears"
/
| 22 |
ProGunLiberal Sat, Apr 21, 2012 12:50:53pm |
re: #20 Kragar
He is completely correct and truthful about the background of Romney's family though. I just a "two can play at that game" situation.
Also, big news from the Netherlands:
The Rutte cabinet, the current cabinet of the Netherlands, collapses after coalition partner Party for Freedom suspends its support.
What caused the split?
| 23 |
Gus Sat, Apr 21, 2012 12:51:08pm |
re: #18 Mich-again
From Frank Says:
Frank probably never spent much time playing catch with his son in the street, yelling CAR and asking neighbors for a LITTLE HELP!
As my youngest son finishes out his baseball career in his senior season of high school and I start to realize the days of playing catch are probably coming to an end soon, I get kind of sentimemtal just thinking about all the thousands of times we've played catch in front of the house in the street. Frank, that is the first quote I've read from you that made me think how very little you might just know about life..
Frank Zappa - Greggary Peccary - 1972
Joann Caldwell McNab on bassoon.
| 24 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 21, 2012 12:56:07pm |
re: #22 ProGunLiberal
He is completely correct and truthful about the background of Romney's family though
Not "completely correct and truthful"
(George) Romney's parents, Gaskell Romney (1871–1955) and Anna Amelia Pratt (1876–1926), were American citizens and natives of Utah. They married in 1895 in Mexico and lived in Colonia Dublán in Galeana in the state of Chihuahua (one of the Mormon colonies in Mexico) where George was born on July 8, 1907.[1][3][6] They practiced monogamy[1] (polygamy having been abolished by the 1890 Manifesto, although it persisted in places, especially Mexico
| 28 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 21, 2012 12:59:22pm |
| 29 |
Gus Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:00:10pm |
re: #28 sattv4u2
Thats the ugliest dog i've ever seen!!
Part pig. Part skunk. And something else. That's a descendant of Greggory Peccary.
//
| 30 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:00:47pm |
re: #29 Gus
Part pig. Part skunk. And something else. That's a descendant of Greggory Peccary.
//
The 1st P-Unk ???
| 31 |
Mich-again Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:00:51pm |
re: #23 Gus
well, I'm like 9 minutes into that and I'd rather play catch in the street..
| 33 |
ProGunLiberal Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:01:42pm |
re: #24 sattv4u2
This cached page from the Deseret News says otherwise.
Also, two other points. One: If your side wants to do birtherism, two can play at this game. Don't want this to be used? Then don't do birtherism.
Second: Alot of us over on this side want revenge for Prop 8. And some of us even have other bones to pick.
| 34 |
prairiefire Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:02:52pm |
I am really enjoying the political trash talking. The activists are just getting warmed up. I would like to hear more dissing from the young feminists. I know you're out there!
| 35 |
Gus Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:03:05pm |
re: #31 Mich-again
well, I'm like 9 minutes into that and I'd rather play catch in the street..
[Embedded content]
| 36 |
wrenchwench Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:03:49pm |
re: #24 sattv4u2
although it persisted in places, especially Mexico
They did practice polygamy in Mexico in that community. I don't know about those particular Romneys, but the reason for going to Mexico was to continue the practice.
I think the "commune" part is inaccurate.
| 37 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:05:00pm |
re: #33 ProGunLiberal
This cached page from the Deseret News says otherwise.
Also, two other points. One: If your side wants to do birtherism, two can play at this game. Don't want this to be used? Then don't do birtherism.
Second: Alot of us over on this side want revenge for Prop 8. And some of us even have other bones to pick.
"my side"!?!?!
When have you ever seen me 'side" with a birther, in any way shape or form?
"revenge',, you sure seem to want to extract "revenge" about a myriad of things
Go bark up someone elses tree
| 38 |
prairiefire Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:05:12pm |
re: #24 sattv4u2
He is completely correct and truthful about the background of Romney's family though
Not "completely correct and truthful"
(George) Romney's parents, Gaskell Romney (1871–1955) and Anna Amelia Pratt (1876–1926), were American citizens and natives of Utah. They married in 1895 in Mexico and lived in Colonia Dublán in Galeana in the state of Chihuahua (one of the Mormon colonies in Mexico) where George was born on July 8, 1907.[1][3][6] They practiced monogamy[1] (polygamy having been abolished by the 1890 Manifesto, although it persisted in places, especially Mexico
So were they practicing polygamy in Mexico where it was allowed
| 39 |
Gus Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:05:43pm |
A) “The bassoon is one of my favorite instruments. It has a medieval aroma, like the days when everything used to sound like that. Some people crave baseball...I find this unfathomable, but I can easily understand why a person could get excited about playing the bassoon.”
― Frank Zappa
B) Greggory Peccary with bassoon - Frank Zappa 1974
C) Dog Meat - Frank Zappa 1974
D) Communism!
//
| 40 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:07:26pm |
re: #33 ProGunLiberal
Oh ,, and as far as your 'link'
the Republican presidential candidate's great-grandfather
Thats far removed from "his father was “born on a polygamy commune in Mexico.” that you claimed to be "completely correct,,"
| 41 |
wrenchwench Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:07:48pm |
re: #38 prairiefire
So were they practicing polygamy in Mexico where it was allowed
It was illegal there too, but there was no enforcement.
| 42 |
prairiefire Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:08:37pm |
"I think the "commune" part is inaccurate."
That word is alluding to licentious, a character flaw.[Link: www.merriam-webster.com...]
| 43 |
Mich-again Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:08:44pm |
I don't give a hoot what Mitt's grandparents were doing or not doing in the late 1800's. Mitt has enough of his own track record to run against.
| 44 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:08:45pm |
re: #38 prairiefire
So were they practicing polygamy in Mexico where it was allowed
Probably WHEN, as much as WHERE
As stated, it was outlawed there in 1890
| 45 |
ProGunLiberal Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:08:55pm |
re: #37 sattv4u2
Do I have bloodlust problems? Yes, yes I do.
However, if you don't these attacks on Romney, stop the Birthers on the Conservative side of the Culture War. Right now, I just see the other side as thin-skinned bullies needing a taste of their own medicine.
And that doesn't even get into the fact that Utah and the South have a very similar history vis-a-vis the Federal Government.
| 47 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:09:40pm |
| 48 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:10:27pm |
My Computer says it is 3:09, my phone says it's 4:09.
Where Am I?
How are you?
| 49 |
wrenchwench Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:10:56pm |
re: #25 Gus
We've had those run through the yard. The babies are really cute. The adults are kinda scary. Anything that has big tusks and enjoys eating cactus is scary.
| 50 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:10:56pm |
re: #40 sattv4u2
Sorrry,,,, after "great grandfather" the rest was not supposed to be in bold and italics
| 51 |
ProGunLiberal Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:11:12pm |
| 52 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:12:29pm |
re: #51 ProGunLiberal
And they tend to be against political targets
I don't give a rats ass if it's 'against" spiders
having a "bloodlust problem" is a huge problem
| 53 |
Gus Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:13:21pm |
re: #49 wrenchwench
We've had those run through the yard. The babies are really cute. The adults are kinda scary. Anything that has big tusks and enjoys eating cactus is scary.
| 54 |
ProGunLiberal Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:13:53pm |
re: #50 sattv4u2
No, George Romney was born on a compound in Mexico, which had a history of polygamy.
Don't like the heat? Stay out of the kitchen, and don't do the same to Obama.
| 55 |
wrenchwench Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:14:10pm |
| 56 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:14:53pm |
| 57 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:15:20pm |
| 58 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:15:42pm |
re: #55 wrenchwench
Hamsters with trotters!
I just got a mental image of a hamster replacing the horse here
| 59 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:16:02pm |
Hint: It's a beautiful part of the country and some big Christian Group has a huge building downtown across the street from the hotel.
| 60 |
ProGunLiberal Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:16:35pm |
re: #56 ggt
And I see what happened. The thingy with the wrong time is stuck (timewise) in another timezone.
| 61 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:16:56pm |
re: #20 Kragar
Brian Schweitzer: Mitt Romney’s ‘Family Came From a Polygamy Commune in Mexico’
/faceplam
Heeeere we go!
| 62 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:17:04pm |
re: #60 ProGunLiberal
And I see what happened. The thingy with the wrong time is stuck (timewise) in another timezone.
Ah yes, but it's a game. Where in the World is GGT?
| 63 |
wrenchwench Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:17:09pm |
re: #42 prairiefire
"I think the "commune" part is inaccurate."
That word is alluding to licentious, a character flaw.[Link: www.merriam-webster.com...]
Not very many people use the word commune in a non-pejorative context these days. Especially wingnuts, who never have.
The whole thing is irrelevant, of course.
| 65 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:18:00pm |
| 66 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:18:51pm |
re: #54 ProGunLiberal
George Romney was born on a compound in Mexico, which had a history of polygamy.
But the practice was outlawed there before he was born AND his parents (Mitts grandparents) never practiced. So your link was false
Don't like the heat?
Doesn't bother me at all, but it does seem to bring out the "blood lust" in you
don't do the same to Obama.
Don't accuse/ intimate something of me that I don't do
| 67 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:20:14pm |
People are complaining that it is unseasonably cool here and are wearing warm coats. I have on a sweat shirt and am kinda warm.
Famous City, they say Y'll here.
| 68 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:21:17pm |
I could give a damn about Mitt Romney and/or his grandparents.
| 69 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:24:11pm |
What give's a husband the right? Anyone the right?
| 71 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:27:50pm |
re: #33 ProGunLiberal
This cached page from the Deseret News says otherwise.
Also, two other points. One: If your side wants to do birtherism, two can play at this game. Don't want this to be used? Then don't do birtherism.
Second: Alot of us over on this side want revenge for Prop 8. And some of us even have other bones to pick.
Rant to follow:
His great-great-grandfather had two wives? A Mormon in Utah in the ninteenth century had more than one wife? I may faint.
Wait, why does this have anything to do with Mitt again? The LDS church banned polygamy over a century ago, and Mitt's been married to Ann Romney for about a million years. And no one else. Let's say his FATHER had SIX wives. Why would I care?
Birtherism is stupid. It does not get smarter if we are playing at it. Given that the seeds of inspecting Obama's citizenship were reportedly first planted by the Clinton campaign, it is also clear that birtherism comes back and bites your party in the ass.
I would rather be at least slightly classy than have Barack Obama be president again. And the best part is, I don't think we have to pick.
Also, Mitt is hated by the same people who are birthers, so this is indulging them, not fighting them.
As for Prop 8, Mitt didn't do it.
Religious bigotry is wrong, no matter how palatable it is made for me and my political beliefs. I'm not going to vote for Mitt because he's Mitt Romney, and he's a Republican, and a panderer, and I think he's made out of plastic, not because he's a Mormon.
| 72 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:28:44pm |
| 73 |
ProGunLiberal Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:28:52pm |
re: #69 ggt
Pakistan has refused to act against these sort of things. They are so obsessed with the military, they have let the rest of the country rot away. At least one region has had enough of this (Balochistan).
| 75 |
Lidane Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:30:17pm |
re: #8 Gus
Orrin Hatch did not get 60 percent. There will be a primary.
Between Hatch having to face a primary and Lugar possibly going down, the teabaggers on FR are in full celebration mode.
| 76 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:31:12pm |
re: #69 ggt
What give's a husband the right? Anyone the right?
I don't know why the subcontinent has such terrible problems with this stuff. Acid attacks, bride burning, honor killings in the Muslim,Hindu and Sikh communities...the men I've met from that part of the world don't seem to hate women with a visible pathological passion, so what the hell is up?
People suck.
| 77 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:31:22pm |
re: #73 ProGunLiberal
Pakistan has refused to act against these sort of things. They are so obsessed with the military, they have let the rest of the country rot away. At least one region has had enough of this (Balochistan).
I'm suprised more women don't fight back. Can you imagine what would happen to a husband in this country if he did such a thing to his wife?
Yes, women here do have legal and financal recourse, but I think more than enough husbands would have a healthy fear of other retribution.
| 78 |
ProGunLiberal Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:31:38pm |
re: #75 Lidane
This hurts them though. Because it drives away more moderates, and shrinks the tent more. Now, we maybe, by some miracle, be able to pick up Indiana.
| 79 |
Lidane Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:32:34pm |
re: #71 SanFranciscoZionist
I'm not going to vote for Mitt because he's Mitt Romney, and he's a Republican, and a panderer, and I think he's made out of plastic, not because he's a Mormon.
This.
I don't give a damn what mythical sky father Mitt Romney believes in. I care that his politics and policies suck, that he has no principles to speak of, and that he's pandering to the ignorant, atavistic Republican base that would rather see this country burn than see anyone to the left of Attila the Hun elected.
| 80 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:33:19pm |
re: #76 SanFranciscoZionist
I don't know why the subcontinent has such terrible problems with this stuff. Acid attacks, bride burning, honor killings in the Muslim,Hindu and Sikh communities...the men I've met from that part of the world don't seem to hate women with a visible pathological passion, so what the hell is up?
People suck.
I think it's the inability to control their own sexual urges. The one husband blamed his wife saying she "took too much pride in her beauty". IN a culture that places high value on women's beauty. I think perhaps HE took too much pride in her beauty and felt he had to obliterate it for his own soul- -or he feared another man coveted her beauty.
Objectification -- for what ever reason.
| 81 |
ProGunLiberal Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:33:49pm |
re: #77 ggt
Again, that's because, unlike India and Bangladesh, Pakistan has done zippity-doo-da to fix these issues of hyper-misogyny. In fact, they are promoting it through their puppet, the Taliban.
And now, Pakistan is the dysfunctional morass it is. And it is no one's fault other than their own.
| 82 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:33:54pm |
re: #74 sattv4u2
marry me
I was going to say I was already taken, but heck, we're talking about polygamy. Why should polyandry not be OK?
| 83 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:34:28pm |
re: #78 ProGunLiberal
This hurts them though. Because it drives away more moderates, and shrinks the tent more. Now, we maybe, by some miracle, be able to pick up Indiana.
While driving into INdiana the other day there was a homemade billboard by the highway that read: HELL IS REAL.
I felt there were just a few jokes in that.
| 84 |
Lidane Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:34:40pm |
re: #78 ProGunLiberal
This hurts them though. Because it drives away more moderates, and shrinks the tent more.
The teabaggers WANT the tent to shrink. They want the moderates and independents that they consider RINOs to get the hell out of the Republican party. They want to push the GOP as far to the right as possible.
| 85 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:36:15pm |
re: #77 ggt
I'm suprised more women don't fight back. Can you imagine what would happen to a husband in this country if he did such a thing to his wife?
Yes, women here do have legal and financal recourse, but I think more than enough husbands would have a healthy fear of other retribution.
Legal and financial recourse, and also, education, a sense of themselves as people...if a woman is married very young, has no education, how is she going to even conceptualize that this is not OK, let alone fight back?
And unfortunately, the women in the husband's family often side with their sons, so no help to be had from your MIL.
These women are more like kidnap victims in some ways than what I think of as a wife.
| 86 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:36:36pm |
re: #82 SanFranciscoZionist
I was going to say I was already taken, but heck, we're talking about polygamy. Why should polyandry not be OK?
It would certainly help with the population levels!
I think we should look into the benefits!
| 87 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:36:54pm |
re: #82 SanFranciscoZionist
I was going to say I was already taken, but heck, we're talking about polygamy. Why should polyandry not be OK?
As long as Hubbie # 1 makes enough $$$ to keep both of us in the lifestyle we're entitled too!!!
/
| 88 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:37:30pm |
re: #85 SanFranciscoZionist
Legal and financial recourse, and also, education, a sense of themselves as people...if a woman is married very young, has no education, how is she going to even conceptualize that this is not OK, let alone fight back?
And unfortunately, the women in the husband's family often side with their sons, so no help to be had from your MIL.
These women are more like kidnap victims in some ways than what I think of as a wife.
A lot of Pakistani women are educated and worldly --depends on what part of the country they are from, I guess.
| 89 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:38:31pm |
re: #87 sattv4u2
As long as Hubbie # 1 makes enough $$$ to keep both of us in the lifestyle we're entitled too!!!
/
Hmmmm. I need to know more about this lifestyle you want. Do you expect to get a whole ramen noodle packet to yourself?
| 90 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:38:51pm |
re: #85 SanFranciscoZionist
Legal and financial recourse, and also, education, a sense of themselves as people...if a woman is married very young, has no education, how is she going to even conceptualize that this is not OK, let alone fight back?
And unfortunately, the women in the husband's family often side with their sons, so no help to be had from your MIL.
These women are more like kidnap victims in some ways than what I think of as a wife.
True. Women and daughter are also seen as a financial liability in many cultures. They are, in many ways, expendable.
| 91 |
ProGunLiberal Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:39:16pm |
re: #83 ggt
Oh, there are SO MANY!!! I can't choose which one. It's like an all you can eat buffet, but with snark instead.
re: #85 SanFranciscoZionist
There was an Atlantic Article I found yesterday that I linked. It said the same thing as you are saying now. You nailed it.
Unfortately, Pakistan's Government doesn't give a damn. They care more about doing Terror Attacks in India, as well as harassing the US and just being general twatwaffles.
Something will eventually break in Pakistan. At some point, Balochistan will probably become independent.
| 92 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:39:28pm |
re: #88 ggt
A lot of Pakistani women are educated and worldly --depends on what part of the country they are from, I guess.
True, and in India too. My impression, and it may be incorrect, is that this kind of thing is more common in rural and underdeveloped parts of the country, less so in more affluent and educated areas. I could completely not get it, though.
| 93 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:39:51pm |
re: #89 SanFranciscoZionist
Hmmm. I need to know more about this lifestyle you want. Do you expect to get a whole ramen noodle packet to yourself?
no, I'll share
but control of the TV remote is non-negotiable
| 94 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:40:13pm |
re: #93 sattv4u2
no, I'll share
but control of the TV remote is non-negotiable
What about the bank account?
| 95 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:41:00pm |
re: #94 ggt
What about the bank account?
I just paid for my sons tuition, so we'll have to depend on SFZ husbands!!
| 96 |
compound_Idaho Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:41:09pm |
re: #18 Mich-again
From Frank Says:
Frank probably never spent much time playing catch with his son in the street, yelling CAR and asking neighbors for a LITTLE HELP!
As my youngest son finishes out his baseball career in his senior season of high school and I start to realize the days of playing catch are probably coming to an end soon, I get kind of sentimemtal just thinking about all the thousands of times we've played catch in front of the house in the street. Frank, that is the first quote I've read from you that made me think how very little you might just know about life..
My son is a high school senior playing his last year of ball as well. He is 18 years old and he asked me to play catch just this morning.
| 98 |
ProGunLiberal Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:42:09pm |
re: #92 SanFranciscoZionist
You are correct. Again, India and Bangladesh are doing things to solve this problem.
Also, I wanted to make a note about Algeria. This is in regards to the leader of the terrorist group Ansar Dine, Iyad Ag Ghaly:
Jeremy Keenan, professor at the School of Oriental and African Studies in London, stated that the military contribution of ag Ghaly's fighters was slight compared to the much larger MNLA: "What seems to happen is that when they move into a town, the MNLA take out the military base — not that there's much resistance — and Iyad goes into town and puts up his flag and starts bossing everyone around about sharia law." According to Keenan, Ag Ghaly is linked to the Algerian intelligence service.
Algeria is just the Maghreb version of Pakistan.
| 99 |
ProGunLiberal Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:43:42pm |
re: #97 MikeySDCA
And I found a dumb as hell tweet about it:
The world has lost a brilliant, passionate, persuasive, humble servant in Chuck Colson. ow.ly/aqP9I
— Lee Strobel (@LeeStrobel) April 21, 2012
| 100 |
Gus Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:47:47pm |
R.S. McCain currently throwing pebbles at the LGF castle again. Derp.
| 101 |
wrenchwench Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:48:54pm |
| 102 |
ProGunLiberal Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:49:45pm |
re: #100 Gus
Where's the catapult with the dead cow as ammo?
| 103 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:50:04pm |
| 104 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:52:00pm |
| 105 |
Gus Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:52:04pm |
re: #101 wrenchwench
Baaa.
The latest is some 12,000 word screed about what Thanos has been paging. It even has screen shots. Apparently, "we're all next!"
[Dobro slide.]
| 106 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:53:24pm |
re: #105 Gus
The latest is some 12,000 word screed about what Thanos has been paging. It even has screen shots. Apparently, "we're all next!"
[Dobro slide.]
McCain makes fun of Thanos for misspelling 'minuscule' -- what a dumbass. Thanos spelled it correctly, and McCain's spelling is WRONG.
| 107 |
wrenchwench Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:55:12pm |
re: #105 Gus
The latest is some 12,000 word screed about what Thanos has been paging. It even has screen shots. Apparently, "we're all next!"
[Dobro slide.]
The word 'wrench' appears in his first update, but not related to me in any way.
| 108 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:55:56pm |
re: #106 Charles Johnson
McCain makes fun of Thanos for misspelling 'minuscule' -- what a dumbass. Thanos spelled it correctly, and McCain's spelling is WRONG.
iirc, both are acceptable (with the "u" after the "n" as well as with a 2nd "i" after the "n")
| 109 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:56:40pm |
| 110 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:57:41pm |
| 111 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:58:05pm |
re: #108 sattv4u2
iirc, both are acceptable (with the "u" after tyhe "n" as well as with a 2nd "i" after the "n")
The second spelling is not generally accepted as an alternate spelling, but it's becoming increasingly common.
| 112 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:58:51pm |
Why does the name Thanos ring a bell?
| 113 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:59:24pm |
| 114 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:59:39pm |
| 115 |
Gus Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:01:09pm |
re: #111 Charles Johnson
The second spelling is not generally accepted as an alternate spelling, but it's becoming increasingly common.
Who the heck is @dan_verg_?
| 116 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:02:02pm |
re: #111 Charles Johnson
The second spelling is not generally accepted as an alternate spelling, but it's becoming increasingly common.
Been around for a long time
[Link: www.merriam-webster.com...]
[Link: www.barnsdle.demon.co.uk...]
| 117 |
palomino Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:02:10pm |
re: #61 SanFranciscoZionist
Heeere we go!
Sure it was dumb of Schweitzer to say that, but it's the inevitable outcome of Obama being attacked by gop politicans, over the last 5 years, for everything from being a Kenyan to a commie to a non-citizen to an America hater to a Muslim to a radical who hates whites. Rhetoric filled with coarse lies and racism begets more coarse rhetoric.
| 118 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:03:02pm |
AS we drove into town, this was rather impressive. I can only imagine how impressive it was before all the modern buildings were built around it.
It's on a rather large/tall hill.
| 119 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:03:25pm |
re: #105 Gus
The latest is some 12,000 word screed about what Thanos has been paging. It even has screen shots. Apparently, "we're all next!"
[Dobro slide.]
What has Thanos been paging?
| 121 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:03:40pm |
| 122 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:04:32pm |
re: #119 SanFranciscoZionist
What has Thanos been paging?
Phillip Morris!!!
Image: Ad%20Philip%20Morris%202.jpg
(damn, I'm old!!)
| 123 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:04:55pm |
re: #117 palomino
Sure it was dumb of Schweitzer to say that, but it's the inevitable outcome of Obama being attacked by gop politicans, over the last 5 years, for everything from being a Kenyan to a commie to a non-citizen to an America hater to a Muslim to a radical who hates whites. Rhetoric filled with coarse lies and racism begets more coarse rhetoric.
I refuse to relinquish the high ground. We CANNOT allow this to become what American politics is.
Also, it's breeding contempt for Mormons in general, not Romney in particular.
| 124 |
Gus Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:05:38pm |
re: #119 SanFranciscoZionist
What has Thanos been paging?
He's whining about the last few. Don't really know. Apparently he now lives at LGF like the stalkers and reads every page or something.
| 125 |
Ben G. Hazi Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:06:20pm |
re: #124 Gus
He's whining about the last few. Don't really know. Apparently he now lives at LGF like the stalkers and reads every page or something.
Not bad, with Charles and LGF being "irrelevant" and all...
/can't wash LGF outta your hair, can you, RSM?
| 126 |
blueraven Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:06:34pm |
re: #116 sattv4u2
Been around for a long time
[Link: www.merriam-webster.com...]
[Link: www.barnsdle.demon.co.uk...]
From your 1st link...
The adjective minuscule is etymologically related to minus, but associations with mini- have produced the spelling variant miniscule. This variant dates to the end of the 19th century, and it now occurs commonly in published writing, but it continues to be widely regarded as an error
.
Isn't that what Charles said?
| 127 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:08:14pm |
re: #126 blueraven
From your 1st link...
.
Isn't that what Charles said?
Yes, but thanks for repeating it!
| 128 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:08:21pm |
re: #124 Gus
He's whining about the last few. Don't really know. Apparently he now lives at LGF like the stalkers and reads every page or something.
Wait, so McCain is for him or against him? And also...
Never mind. I'm not really that interested.
| 129 |
engineer cat Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:08:51pm |
i was going to piously remark that brietbart is still too freshly deceased to revile him as a lying hate monger but i stopped myself in time
| 130 |
Ben G. Hazi Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:10:42pm |
re: #129 engineer cat
i was going to piously remark that brietbart is still too freshly deceased to revile him as a lying hate monger but i stopped myself in time
I see what you did there...
| 131 |
austin_blue Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:10:51pm |
re: #129 engineer cat
i was going to piously remark that brietbart is still too freshly deceased to revile him as a lying hate monger but i stopped myself in time
Well, thank the gods you did!
| 132 |
makeitstop Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:12:04pm |
re: #17 Charles Johnson
I believe it's on the bottom four strings. He crosses over and plays above the capo at one point.
Very neat trick, that is. I'm so stealing that.
| 133 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:12:16pm |
I wonder how much one can get for an ear in a pawn shop!! Enough to settle a debt!?!?!?
Man Allegedly Slices Another Man’s Ear Off Over Unpaid Debt
[Link: losangeles.cbslocal.com...]
/
| 134 |
blueraven Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:13:13pm |
| 135 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:14:09pm |
re: #133 sattv4u2
I wonder how much one can get for an ear in a pawn shop!! Enough to settle a debt!?!?!?
Man Allegedly Slices Another Man’s Ear Off Over Unpaid Debt
[Link: losangeles.cbslocal.com...]
/
This is what happens when people can't let go of that whole "I've got your nose!" thing that they do with toddlers.
| 136 |
Gus Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:14:34pm |
Just found this gem:
Romney staff spent nearly $100,000 to hide records
12/2011
(Reuters) - Mitt Romney spent nearly $100,000 in state funds to replace computers in his office at the end of his term as governor of Massachusetts in 2007 as part of an unprecedented effort to keep his records secret, Reuters has learned.
The move during the final weeks of Romney's administration was legal but unusual for a departing governor, Massachusetts officials say.
| 137 |
Interesting Times Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:15:14pm |
Speaking of the recently deceased...get the impression Jeff Sharlet (author of "The Family", which exposed the creepy Dominionist cult running way too much of America) wasn't too fond of this guy? :)
I wouldn't attack Colson because he was a conservative. I'll attack him because he was a liar to the end, never an honest conservative.— JeffSharlet (@JeffSharlet) April 21, 2012
Colson had the jowls of a bulldog and a natural sneer like that of last-days Elvis - same bloated cockiness, sans sex appeal.— JeffSharlet (@JeffSharlet) April 21, 2012
Watch press sing Colson's praises. The press that never bothered to ask him a tough Q after he was born again. "If you say so..."— JeffSharlet (@JeffSharlet) April 21, 2012
Chuck Colson was a cruel, vain, and arrogant man in all phases of his life, a dissembler & a hater to the end. RIP.— JeffSharlet (@JeffSharlet) April 21, 2012
| 138 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:15:46pm |
re: #135 SanFranciscoZionist
This is what happens when people can't let go of that whole "I've got your nose!" thing that they do with toddlers.
I JUST took a mouthful of coffee when you posted that
I hope the screen survives!!
| 139 |
engineer cat Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:15:51pm |
saw two EXcellent movies last night:
hunger games
agora - 2009 with rachel weisz about the persecution of Hypatia, an alexandrine philosopher of late antiquity who was persecuted by the newly triumphant christians, despite the fact that she had been the highly respected teacher of the roman prefect and the bishop of cyrene
btw rachel weisz's name is a respelling of the german word for 'white' into hungarian orthography
| 140 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:16:51pm |
@Lizardoid @Tarkloon @ali "Minuscule" is the older and original (and therefore probably racist) spelling of the word. theothermccain.com/2012/04/21/lit...— Robert Stacy McCain (@rsmccain) April 21, 2012
| 141 |
Charles Johnson Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:17:33pm |
@rsmccain @Tarkloon @silviobreckman @Gus_802 So you didn't use a word because it's racist? That's a first for you.— Charles Johnson (@Lizardoid) April 21, 2012
| 142 |
palomino Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:19:04pm |
re: #123 SanFranciscoZionist
I refuse to relinquish the high ground. We CANNOT allow this to become what American politics is.
Also, it's breeding contempt for Mormons in general, not Romney in particular.
I hate to burst your bubble, but it's too late. American politics is already what you fear it will become. There's little constructive debate out there; it's been replaced primarily by hyperbole, identity politics, and contempt for the other side.
It's unrealistic to think that America can soon become united--we're the most diverse country in the world by most measures. The divisions are real, and will not be easily smoothed over. This is America's greatest challenge now. The way Obama's been treated non-stop for 5 years gives me little hope that the discourse will improve.
Do you see any signs of improvement in the discourse on the right? If not, then don't expect improvement on the left. Both sides want to win. And, even more so, both sides are angry.
| 145 |
Gus Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:24:14pm |
The evil anti-gay legacy of Chuck Colson: bit.ly/JXuNlH #HateGroups #Watergate #Felons— JoeMyGod (@JoeMyGod) April 21, 2012
| 147 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:25:32pm |
| 149 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:27:07pm |
| 150 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:27:08pm |
re: #33 ProGunLiberal
This cached page from the Deseret News says otherwise.
Also, two other points. One: If your side wants to do birtherism, two can play at this game. Don't want this to be used? Then don't do birtherism.
Second: Alot of us over on this side want revenge for Prop 8. And some of us even have other bones to pick.
An Eye For An Eye Making the Whole World Blind.
Not a good idea PLL. Mitt Romney is not responsible for where his grandparents lived decades before he was born. To try to pin such things on him is to pump yet more toxic sludge into the culture. Such toxic dishonesty cannot be used to build, only to destroy and its produces no small amount of collateral damage. Such dishonest things ought not to be used, at all.
| 151 |
Ben G. Hazi Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:28:38pm |
re: #140 Charles Johnson
RSM, you suck at snark, so you might as well quit while you're ahead.
On second thought, you've never been ahead, only wayyy behind in an antebellum fantasy; just keep on keeping on, so we may laugh at you.
/you're as useful as tits on a boar hog
| 152 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:28:48pm |
re: #123 SanFranciscoZionist
I refuse to relinquish the high ground. We CANNOT allow this to become what American politics is.
Also, it's breeding contempt for Mormons in general, not Romney in particular.
Quite Concur.
| 153 |
Gus Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:28:56pm |
re: #149 sattv4u2
but decorum should
There's nothing disrespectful about what I posted. You have any complaints go tell Joe My God.
| 154 |
Gus Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:29:35pm |
Lou Engle distorts the Lord's Prayer: "Thy Kingdom come. Thy will be done. On earth as it is in America" #Awakening2012— Right Wing Watch (@RightWingWatch) April 21, 2012
| 155 |
Ben G. Hazi Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:31:03pm |
re: #147 sattv4u2
re: #146 Gus
Geezz ,, let the body get at least luke warm
While I generally subscribe to "don't speak ill of the (newly) dead", Colson was an asshole in Nixon's White House during Watergate and he was a born-again asshole until he died.
And that's all I have to say about that...for now.
| 156 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:31:12pm |
re: #149 sattv4u2
but decorum should
Agreed. Gus, back off for now. Its really is entirely unseemly to go after someone on the they die unless they were a violent malefactor (and Colson was not violent).
| 157 |
Interesting Times Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:31:36pm |
re: #153 Gus
There's nothing disrespectful about what I posted. You have any complaints go tell Joe My God.
The only thing I regret about the death of destructive, evil people is that it temporarily turns them into sympathetic figures.
| 158 |
engineer cat Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:32:37pm |
re: #117 palomino
Sure it was dumb of Schweitzer to say that, but it's the inevitable outcome of Obama being attacked by gop politicans, over the last 5 years, for everything from being a Kenyan to a commie to a non-citizen to an America hater to a Muslim to a radical who hates whites. Rhetoric filled with coarse lies and racism begets more coarse rhetoric.
problem:
how to conduct a political dialogue based on logic, fact, and history when your opponent just lies, lies, stirs up hate, and lies
| 159 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:32:46pm |
re: #155 GnarlyGnomeOfGnowledge
While I subscribe to "don't speak ill of the (newly) dead", Colson was an asshole in Nixon's White House during Watergate and he was a born-again asshole until he died.
And that's all I have to say about that...for now.
looks as if your subscription expired!
| 160 |
Gus Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:32:55pm |
re: #156 Dark_Falcon
Agreed. Gus, back off for now. Its really is entirely unseemly to go after someone on the they die unless they were a violent malefactor (and Colson was not violent).
Give me a break. Why don't you see the message above yours. Back off yourself.
| 161 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:33:40pm |
re: #142 palomino
I hate to burst your bubble, but it's too late. American politics is already what you fear it will become. There's little constructive debate out there; it's been replaced primarily by hyperbole, identity politics, and contempt for the other side.
It's unrealistic to think that America can soon become united--we're the most diverse country in the world by most measures. The divisions are real, and will not be easily smoothed over. This is America's greatest challenge now. The way Obama's been treated non-stop for 5 years gives me little hope that the discourse will improve.
Do you see any signs of improvement in the discourse on the right? If not, then don't expect improvement on the left. Both sides want to win. And, even more so, both sides are angry.
I know what politics has become. I do not approve, and I believe that it can improve. If it can't, I've still got to look at myself in the mirror every morning.
Am I seriously supposed to accept that as a liberal and a Democrat, I should not speak out against religious bigotry when it's being aimed at the other guys? I should figure that reviving hundred-year-old paranoia against Mormons is just the way things go these days? What the hell am I going to do if the Republicans get it together to run a black guy a few cycles down the road? Or a Muslim?
'People are angry' is the excuse that's been made by those who've attacked Obama. I don't care how mad Brian Schweitzer is, he's out of line. Seriously, this is MITT ROMNEY, and the meanest thing he can think of to say about the man is that his father was born in a 'polygamy colony'?
| 162 |
William Barnett-Lewis Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:33:47pm |
re: #148 Gus
History doesn't change with death.
Him and Nixon are having a gay ol' time in Gehenna, I'm sure...
| 163 |
palomino Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:34:14pm |
re: #150 Dark_Falcon
An Eye For An Eye Making the Whole World Blind.
Not a good idea PLL. Mitt Romney is not responsible for where his grandparents lived decades before he was born. To try to pin such things on him is to pump yet more toxic sludge into the culture. Such toxic dishonesty cannot be used to build, only to destroy and its produces no small amount of collateral damage. Such dishonest things ought not to be used, at all.
And this is exactly what you've been saying about the (far more unfair, racist, xenophobic) attacks on Obama, right? You've been saying exactly this for 5 years, ever since those shameful attacks started. Correct?
Of course Mitt's not responsible for this, same way Obama's not responsible for what someone fed him when he was 6 years old in a foreign country. Sorry, but your party's in no position to start giving lectures on what's appopriate discourse when it comes to presidents.
| 164 |
Gus Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:34:29pm |
re: #162 William Barnett-Lewis
Him and Nixon are having a gay ol' time in Gehenna, I'm sure...
How dare you!
//Drops monocle.
| 165 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:34:34pm |
re: #154 Gus
That's a severely erroneous revision, in error to the point of being blasphemy in my eyes.
All believers are equal in the sight of God. He does not give you special consideration simply based on where you are born, you are bound to the same moral code as all other Christians (or other Muslims, for those here who are Muslim).
| 166 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:36:11pm |
[Link: bostonherald.com...]
A strap-hanging MBTA heroine said she went into “She-Hulk” mode to single-handedly collar a man who exposed himself on a crowded B-Line trolley — dragging him off the train and holding him until cops arrived
I don't even want to know what she was holding onto when she dragged him off the train!!
| 167 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:37:05pm |
re: #163 palomino
And this is exactly what you've been saying about the (far more unfair, racist, xenophobic) attacks on Obama, right? You've been saying exactly this for 5 years, ever since those shameful attacks started. Correct?
Of course Mitt's not responsible for this, same way Obama's not responsible for what someone fed him when he was 6 years old in a foreign country. Sorry, but your party's in no position to start giving lectures on what's appopriate discourse when it comes to presidents.
The Truth? It was not until December of 2008 that I decided that Birtherism should be accorded no respect. Once I did so, treated as the trashy attack it is and having called people out for it consistently since 2009.
| 168 |
engineer cat Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:37:18pm |
re: #150 Dark_Falcon
An Eye For An Eye Making the Whole World Blind.
Not a good idea PLL. Mitt Romney is not responsible for where his grandparents lived decades before he was born. To try to pin such things on him is to pump yet more toxic sludge into the culture. Such toxic dishonesty cannot be used to build, only to destroy and its produces no small amount of collateral damage. Such dishonest things ought not to be used, at all.
perhaps you could do something to convince the members of your own party to observe your sincere wishes for a clean and honest political dialogue
| 169 |
Kragar Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:37:39pm |
Lou Engle, like most other Evangelicals, is a disgusting hypocrite who confuses self righteous egomania with piety.
| 170 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:38:48pm |
re: #161 SanFranciscoZionist
the meanest thing he can think of the say about the man is that his father was born in a 'polygamy colony'?
Geeez i'm getting tired
I 1st read that as PYGMY colony!!!
I was going to say ,,, Romney's pretty tall coming from a family of pygmys
| 171 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:39:50pm |
re: #165 Dark_Falcon
That's a severely erroneous revision, in error to the point of being blasphemy in my eyes.
All believers are equal in the sight of God. He does not give you special consideration simply based on where you are born, you are bound to the same moral code as all other Christians (or other Muslims, for those here who are Muslim).
DAMN SKIPPY. (Jews too.)
As we always remind the kids at assemblies at the Catholic school's I've taught at, "We pray as Jesus taught us," when we pray the Lord's Prayer.
That is why it is called "The Lord's Prayer".
I do not think that Lou Engle is a person of sufficient standing to go ahead and revise the words that Jesus taught to his followers.
| 172 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:40:51pm |
re: #170 sattv4u2
the meanest thing he can think of the say about the man is that his father was born in a 'polygamy colony'?
Geeez i'm getting tired
I 1st read that as PYGMY colony!!!
I was going to say ,,, Romney's pretty tall coming from a family of pygmys
Although I would be extremely interested to learn more about the pygmy colony...what was a colony of pygmies doing in Mexico, anyway?
| 173 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:41:16pm |
re: #166 sattv4u2
[Link: bostonherald.com...]
A strap-hanging MBTA heroine said she went into “She-Hulk” mode to single-handedly collar a man who exposed himself on a crowded B-Line trolley — dragging him off the train and holding him until cops arrived
I don't even want to know what she was holding onto when she dragged him off the train!!
Decisiveness of that sort is glorious.
| 174 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:42:16pm |
re: #172 SanFranciscoZionist
Although I would be extremely interested to learn more about the pygmy colony...what was a colony of pygmies doing in Mexico, anyway?
Looking for their rattlesnakes??
[Link: www.mexicanfauna.com...]
| 175 |
engineer cat Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:43:40pm |
re: #172 SanFranciscoZionist
Although I would be extremely interested to learn more about the pygmy colony...what was a colony of pygmies doing in Mexico, anyway?
training to save the world from non traditional marriage and dog sandwiches
| 176 |
Gus Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:44:29pm |
Disrespecting the dead -- more specifically a death -- is like saying "good I'm glad he's dead" or "it's about time he died." Others might say "I hope he suffered in his death." That's disrespecting the dead. Not pointing out a history such as one would find in an obituary. In this case and as an example the NY Times obituary for Colson:
Mr. Colson and his colleagues “started vying for favor on Nixon’s dark side,” said Bryce Harlow, a former counselor to the president, in an oral history.
“Colson started talking about trampling his grandmother’s grave for Nixon and showing he was as mean as they come.”
As the president’s re-election campaign geared up in 1971, “everybody went macho,” Mr. Harlow said. “It was the ‘in’ thing to swagger and threaten.”
| 177 |
palomino Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:45:21pm |
Have you got a specific date in mind when it's acceptable to criticize Cre: #161 SanFranciscoZionist
I know what politics has become. I do not approve, and I believe that it can improve. If it can't, I've still got to look at myself in the mirror every morning.
Am I seriously supposed to accept that as a liberal and a Democrat, I should not speak out against religious bigotry when it's being aimed at the other guys? I should figure that reviving hundred-year-old paranoia against Mormons is just the way things go these days? What the hell am I going to do if the Republicans get it together to run a black guy a few cycles down the road? Or a Muslim? I'm not
'People are angry' is the excuse that's been made by those who've attacked Obama. I don't care how mad Brian Schweitzer is, he's out of line. Seriously, this is MITT ROMNEY, and the meanest thing he can think of the say about the man is that his father was born in a 'polygamy colony'?
I'm talking about a larger cultural trend. Most Americans would probably see WWII as the last time the nation was truly united for any length of time. Back then the population of the US was one-third what it is today. The white and Christian populations were much larger proportionally. And most minorities, along with gays and women, had little voice in the public debate. The facade of unity could be maintained.
But now the toothpaste is out of the tube, and minorities will no longer shut up and cower in fear. Thus, the conservative white backlash that began in the 50s and has been exemplified most clearly by the gop's disgusting southern strategy. You say you're hopeful that things can improve.
Based on the last 50 years, why do you believe that? The US is currently more fractured along religious, social, ethnic, racial lines than at most points in its history. And the imminent demographic changes don't bode well in terms of the right wanting to hold hands with everyone and rejoice in ALL of us being real Americans.
| 178 |
palomino Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:47:16pm |
re: #167 Dark_Falcon
The Truth? It was not until December of 2008 that I decided that Birtherism should be accorded no respect. Once I did so, treated as the trashy attack it is and having called people out for it consistently since 2009.
So even a rational guy like you bought into the bullshit for a year or two. Now imagine all the other people out there, right and left, who are less rational. Do you think there's much chance they'll join in a coordinated effort to create more constructive debate?
| 179 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:48:11pm |
re: #177 palomino
Have you got a specific date in mind when it's acceptable to criticize
Yes. Later!
/ (half)
Don't know if it still applies, but we used to have a '24 hour rule" around here for stories that didn't as of yet have all the details of, keeping us from jumping to conclusions. I would think that at least that long after someones death would be smart
| 180 |
wrenchwench Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:50:24pm |
re: #177 palomino
re: #161 SanFranciscoZionist
I'm talking about a larger cultural trend. Most Americans would probably see WWII as the last time the nation was truly united for any length of time. Back then the population of the US was one-third what it is today. The white and Christian populations were much larger proportionally. And most minorities, along with gays and women, had little voice in the public debate. The facade of unity could be maintained.
But now the toothpaste is out of the tube, and minorities will no longer shut up and cower in fear. Thus, the conservative white backlash that began in the 50s and has been exemplified most clearly by the gop's disgusting southern strategy. You say you're hopeful that things can improve.
Based on the last 50 years, why do you believe that? The US is currently more fractured along religious, social, ethnic, racial lines than at most points in its history. And the imminent demographic changes don't bode well in terms of the right wanting to hold hands with everyone and rejoice in ALL of us being real Americans.
You've got evidence of improvement and seeds for more of it right there in your comment. I've been sentient for the last 50 years, and I've seen improvement. I don't expect much improvement in the short term for the GOP, but, as hinted at in your last paragraph, eventually they will improve or die.
| 181 |
Obdicut Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:50:29pm |
re: #179 sattv4u2
What do the two things have to do with each other?
| 182 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:50:51pm |
re: #179 sattv4u2
I would think that at least that long after someones death would be smart
With the obvious exception of a Bin Laden, or a Kim Jong Il, etc
| 183 |
Ayeless in Ghazi Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:51:03pm |
re: #176 Gus
Disrespecting the dead -- more specifically a death -- is like saying "good I'm glad he's dead" or "it's about time he died." Others might say "I hope he suffered in his death." That's disrespecting the dead. Not pointing out a history such as one would find in an obituary. In this case and as an example the NY Times obituary for Colson:
How it's 'supposed' to be done...
| 184 |
allegro Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:51:33pm |
re: #179 sattv4u2
Have you got a specific date in mind when it's acceptable to criticize
Yes. Later!
/ (half)Don't know if it still applies, but we used to have a '24 hour rule" around here for stories that didn't as of yet have all the details of, keeping us from jumping to conclusions. I would think that at least that long after someones death would be smart
I dunno. Coulson worked real hard at being an asshole for years and years. Calling him one isn't an insult. It's a fact. That he's dead, doesn't change it.
| 185 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:52:20pm |
re: #181 Obdicut
What do the two things have to do with each other?
They both have words and punctuation marks
| 187 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:52:56pm |
re: #177 palomino
Have you got a specific date in mind when it's acceptable to criticize Cre: #161 SanFranciscoZionist
I'm talking about a larger cultural trend. Most Americans would probably see WWII as the last time the nation was truly united for any length of time. Back then the population of the US was one-third what it is today. The white and Christian populations were much larger proportionally. And most minorities, along with gays and women, had little voice in the public debate. The facade of unity could be maintained.
But now the toothpaste is out of the tube, and minorities will no longer shut up and cower in fear. Thus, the conservative white backlash that began in the 50s and has been exemplified most clearly by the gop's disgusting southern strategy. You say you're hopeful that things can improve.
Based on the last 50 years, why do you believe that? The US is currently more fractured along religious, social, ethnic, racial lines than at most points in its history. And the imminent demographic changes don't bode well in terms of the right wanting to hold hands with everyone and rejoice in ALL of us being real Americans.
Because if things aren't going to improve then the appropriate actions to take start becoming ugly. If peace across such lines is not possible, it would be wiser to stop trying to reach across them entirely, preferring instead to prepare for the fighting to come.
| 188 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:53:17pm |
re: #177 palomino
Have you got a specific date in mind when it's acceptable to criticize Cre: #161 SanFranciscoZionist
I'm talking about a larger cultural trend. Most Americans would probably see WWII as the last time the nation was truly united for any length of time. Back then the population of the US was one-third what it is today. The white and Christian populations were much larger proportionally. And most minorities, along with gays and women, had little voice in the public debate. The facade of unity could be maintained.
But now the toothpaste is out of the tube, and minorities will no longer shut up and cower in fear. Thus, the conservative white backlash that began in the 50s and has been exemplified most clearly by the gop's disgusting southern strategy. You say you're hopeful that things can improve.
Based on the last 50 years, why do you believe that? The US is currently more fractured along religious, social, ethnic, racial lines than at most points in its history. And the imminent demographic changes don't bode well in terms of the right wanting to hold hands with everyone and rejoice in ALL of us being real Americans.
Ignore the 'things can improve' part. Maybe things can't improve. Maybe the country is hopelessly divided, the slimy politics of the Southern Strategy will end us all, and the American experiment is over. We may end up breaking into six squabbling balkanized chunks and building walls between them. It could happen.
I still plan to criticize religious bigotry, disingenous othering, and general dumbass behavior as I see it.
Schweitzer is playing the same damn game Huckabee played when he commented 'offhand' that he thought Mormons believed that Jesus and Satan were brothers. Why should I give him a pass on that? Because it might scare some voters off Romney?
I'm sure Harry Reid has ancestors who were polygamists. Would it have been fair game for Sharron Angle to target him for that? (Not 'would she have, if she thought it would help'. She would have. But we would have called her out for it.)
| 189 |
palomino Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:53:31pm |
re: #149 sattv4u2
but decorum should
Have you got a specific date in mind when it's acceptable to criticize Colson for being a criminal, fraud and homophobic religious fanatic? How long do we have to wait so that you won't get the vapors at the thought of an 80-year old slimeball being attacked?
| 190 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:54:12pm |
re: #189 palomino
Have you got a specific date in mind when it's acceptable to criticize Colson for being a criminal, fraud and homophobic religious fanatic? How long do we have to wait so that you won't get the vapors at the thought of an 80-year old slimeball being attacked?
Nope
carry on
| 191 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:55:05pm |
re: #182 sattv4u2
I would think that at least that long after someones death would be smart
With the obvious exception of a Bin Laden, or a Kim Jong Il, etc
There are people whose impact on the world is so big, and so vile, that the only possible response to their death is gladness and relief...well, maybe not the only possible, but it's a reasonable response.
For more minor malefactors, I don't ask that they be whitewashed in death, but I generally refrain from hopping and skipping. Personal enemies also fall into this category.
It's got to do with proportion, more than anything.
| 192 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:55:48pm |
re: #179 sattv4u2
Have you got a specific date in mind when it's acceptable to criticize
Yes. Later!
/ (half)Don't know if it still applies, but we used to have a '24 hour rule" around here for stories that didn't as of yet have all the details of, keeping us from jumping to conclusions. I would think that at least that long after someones death would be smart
I see there's a fresh conservative grave to dance on today. Oh, joy!
/
| 193 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:55:49pm |
re: #191 SanFranciscoZionist
There are people whose impact on the world is so big, and so vile, that the only possible response to their death is gladness and relief...well, maybe not the only possible, but it's a reasonable response.
For more minor malefactors, I don't ask that they be whitewashed in death, but I generally refrain from hopping and skipping. Personal enemies also fall into this category.
It's got to do with proportion, more than anything.
as they say here
THIS
| 194 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:56:17pm |
re: #178 palomino
So even a rational guy like you bought into the bullshit for a year or two. Now imagine all the other people out there, right and left, who are less rational. Do you think there's much chance they'll join in a coordinated effort to create more constructive debate?
That's not the point. The point is ultimately The O'Reilly Rule:
You cannot justify bad behavior by pointing to other bad behavior.
The answer to attacks on Barack Obama's ancestry is not a attack on Mitt Romney's ancestry.
| 195 |
engineer cat Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:56:42pm |
if the bible is to be believed, many of us have ancestors who practiced polygamy, slavery, and animal sacrifice
| 196 |
Kragar Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:56:53pm |
The worst thing you can do to the people who wish they shaped the world is ignore them, so I will do so.
| 197 |
Gus Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:57:01pm |
re: #191 SanFranciscoZionist
There are people whose impact on the world is so big, and so vile, that the only possible response to their death is gladness and relief...well, maybe not the only possible, but it's a reasonable response.
For more minor malefactors, I don't ask that they be whitewashed in death, but I generally refrain from hopping and skipping. Personal enemies also fall into this category.
It's got to do with proportion, more than anything.
As do I.
| 198 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:57:27pm |
re: #192 Killgore Trout
I see there's a fresh conservative grave to dance on today. Oh, joy!
/
GRAVE!?!?
Hell,,, the bodies not even lukewarm yet!!
| 199 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:58:15pm |
re: #195 engineer cat
if the bible is to be believed, many of us have ancestors who practiced polygamy, slavery, and animal sacrifice
I do that on a nightly basis
Tonight,,, chicken
| 200 |
Ayeless in Ghazi Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:58:36pm |
re: #191 SanFranciscoZionist
For more minor malefactors, I don't ask that they be whitewashed in death, but I generally refrain from hopping and skipping.
Sure, but while I see people 'not whitewashing' here, I don't see anyone 'hopping and skipping'.
| 201 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:58:37pm |
re: #198 sattv4u2
GRAVE!?!?
Hell,,, the bodies not even lukewarm yet!!
Move the party to the morgue! Lot's of room for beer storage there and the band will really enjoy the acoustics.
| 202 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:58:40pm |
re: #195 engineer cat
if the bible is to be believed, many of us have ancestors who practiced polygamy, slavery, and animal sacrifice
If all archaelogical and text evidence is to be believed, all of us have ancestors who did at least a couple of those. Maybe all three at the same time.
As I'm fond of saying, when folks do the "Biblical marriage is between one man and one woman" shtick, "My ancestor Yaakov, and his wife Rakhel, and his wife Leah, and his concubine Bilhah, and his concubine Zilpah and their twelve sons and one daughter would all be very, very surprised to hear that."
| 203 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:59:50pm |
| 204 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:59:56pm |
re: #200 Aye Pod
Sure, but while I see people 'not whitewashing' here, I don't see anyone 'hopping and skipping'.
Nor I, but then again, I'm not really following this discussion. We've moved on from Breitbart to some newly dead person.
| 205 |
engineer cat Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:59:56pm |
fall campaign preview:
Ha Ha Ha
well, i think the president is a nice guy but i'm going to tell some appalling lies about him now
Ha Ha Ha
| 206 |
austin_blue Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:00:37pm |
Caps are up on the Bruins 3 wins to 2 after 4-3 victory.
Oh, and Real Madrid beat Barca 2-1.
| 207 |
dragonfire1981 Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:00:39pm |
re: #170 sattv4u2
the meanest thing he can think of the say about the man is that his father was born in a 'polygamy colony'?
Geeez i'm getting tired
I 1st read that as PYGMY colony!!!
I was going to say ,,, Romney's pretty tall coming from a family of pygmys
That's why he likes it where he is now...the people are the right height.
| 208 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:00:43pm |
re: #200 Aye Pod
Sure, but while I see people 'not whitewashing' here, I don't see anyone 'hopping and skipping'.
i'm so old, last time I hopped and skipped I broke a hip!
| 209 |
Ayeless in Ghazi Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:01:26pm |
re: #201 Killgore Trout
Move the party to the morgue! Lot's of room for beer storage there and the band will really enjoy the acoustics.
Blatantly lying about what is going on in the thread is pretty lame.
| 210 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:01:29pm |
re: #206 austin_blue
Caps are up on the Bruins 3 wins to 2 after 4-3 victory.
Oh, and Real Madrid beat Barca 2-1.
:(
But all 5 games have been great
| 211 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:01:33pm |
re: #188 SanFranciscoZionist
I'd honestly make the point that the 'Southern Strategy' really was no more than the migration of of various types of Social Conservatives in the former Confederate States from the Democrats to the Republicans. Those seeking to criticize Nixon for encouraging such a move must ask what else Nixon could have done; Without those additional voters the GOP would have been in long-term minority status. Moreover, those Southern SoCons were not going to simply go away; If they had not stayed within the two party system
they might well have formed a third, regional party and then deadlock might have seting even stronger.
| 212 |
Gus Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:01:42pm |
Chuck Colson, Anti-Gay Manhattan Declaration Author, Watergate Felon, Dies thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/chuck-colson-a... #p2 #lgbt #gay #teaparty #DEM #GOP #noh8— David Badash (@davidbadash) April 21, 2012
| 213 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:02:04pm |
re: #205 engineer cat
fall campaign preview:
Ha Ha Ha
well, i think the president is a nice guy but i'm going to tell some appalling lies about him now
Ha Ha Ha
This campaign is going to get wild.
Like that party in "No Lesser Plea", where they get drunk at the DAs office after hours, take the guns out of the evidence lockers, and play cops and robbers with them.
| 214 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:02:25pm |
re: #207 dragonfire1981
That's why he likes it where he is now...the people are the right height.
Please accept this Internet.
| 215 |
Ayeless in Ghazi Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:03:38pm |
re: #212 Gus
Gus, how could you? Don't you know about the 24 hour moratorium on facts following the demise of a wingnut?/
| 216 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:03:40pm |
| 217 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:03:46pm |
re: #211 Dark_Falcon
I'd honestly make the point that the 'Southern Strategy' really was no more than the migration of of various types of Social Conservatives in the former Confederate States from the Democrats to the Republicans. Those seeking to criticize Nixon for encouraging such a move must ask what else Nixon could have done; Without those additional voters the GOP would have been in long-term minority status. Moreover, those Southern SoCons were not going to simply go away; If they had not stayed within the two party system
they might well have formed a third, regional party and then deadlock might have seting even stronger.
Well, since I've made it clear that I would rather be right than have Barack Obama be president, I suppose it's pretty clear what I think that Nixon should have done...
Ugly politics makes perfect sense. People do ugly politics to gain advantage.
It doesn't make it right.
| 218 |
Gus Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:04:07pm |
re: #215 Aye Pod
Gus, how could you? Don't you know about the 24 hour moratorium on facts following the demise of a wingnut?/
I'm just asking questions and posting Tweets.
//
| 219 |
palomino Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:04:20pm |
re: #188 SanFranciscoZionist
Ignore the 'things can improve' part. Maybe things can't improve. Maybe the country is hopelessly divided, the slimy politics of the Southern Strategy will end us all, and the American experiment is over. We may end up breaking into six squabbling balkanized chunks and building walls between them. It could happen.
I still plan to criticize religious bigotry, disingenous othering, and general dumbass behavior as I see it.
Schweitzer is playing the same damn game Huckabee played when he commented 'offhand' that he thought Mormons believed that Jesus and Satan were brothers. Why should I give him a pass on that? Because it might scare some voters off Romney?
I'm sure Harry Reid has ancestors who were polygamists. Would it have been fair game for Sharron Angle to target him for that? (Not 'would she have, if she thought it would help'. She would have. But we would have called her out for it.)
Of course you're right to criticize bigotry no matter where it comes from. But the last 5 years (Obama's 3 years in office plus the primaries before that) have proven that the country isn't close to fully ready to move beyond the racism, xenophobia and religious bigotry that we like to pretend we've transcended.
America's biggest challenge by far in the coming decades is how we respond to the stresses put on the great American experiment. With the election of Obama, I was optimistic we were moving in the right direction. It's been replaced by pessimism at the racially motivated hysteria Obama has elicited, even though he rarely mentions race. I see no reason to think my side will be any more accomodating to Romney, if elected. The left is understandably furious over the contempt shown for Obama on the right. It would be great if more on the left had your sense of a moral high ground, but my suspicion is that Dems--if Romney wins--won't forget and will be looking for payback, which is always a bitch and will simply lead to more obstructionism. More so than at any time since the Civil War, our country has become nearly ungovernable.
| 220 |
Ben G. Hazi Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:04:38pm |
re: #192 Killgore Trout
I see there's a fresh conservative grave to dance on today. Oh, joy!
/
re: #198 sattv4u2
GRAVE!?!?
Hell,,, the bodies not even lukewarm yet!!
Oh, come off it...do you see anyone here reveling in glee that Chuck Colson has shuffled off his mortal coil? All me and Gus said was that Colson was one of the more detestable assholes involved with Watergate and that his track record since being born-again in regards to things he's said hasn't been much better. I won't say "I'm glad he's dead", but he was an asshole while in the Nixon White House and long afterward.
Is there anything factually wrong with this?
| 221 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:04:47pm |
re: #215 Aye Pod
Gus, how could you? Don't you know about the 24 hour moratorium on facts following the demise of a wingnut?/
Blatantly lying about what is going on in the thread is pretty lame.
(hmmm,, seems I've heard that before)
| 222 |
engineer cat Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:05:12pm |
re: #211 Dark_Falcon
I'd honestly make the point that the 'Southern Strategy' really was no more than the migration of of various types of Social Conservatives in the former Confederate States from the Democrats to the Republicans. Those seeking to criticize Nixon for encouraging such a move must ask what else Nixon could have done; Without those additional voters the GOP would have been in long-term minority status. Moreover, those Southern SoCons were not going to simply go away; If they had not stayed within the two party system
they might well have formed a third, regional party and then deadlock might have seting even stronger.
hmmm i wonder what respectable philosophical position it was that was so compelling to 'southern conservative democrats' that it caused them to switch party affiliation en masse by the tens of millions between 1964 and 1980... thinking...
| 223 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:05:43pm |
re: #82 SanFranciscoZionist
I was going to say I was already taken, but heck, we're talking about polygamy. Why should polyandry not be OK?
Well, Joseph Smith did practice that...
| 224 |
Ayeless in Ghazi Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:06:09pm |
re: #221 sattv4u2
Blatantly lying about what is going on in the thread is pretty lame.
(hmmm,, seems I've heard that before)
By all means elaborate.
| 225 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:06:47pm |
| 226 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:08:10pm |
re: #220 GnarlyGnomeOfGnowledge
Is there anything factually wrong with this?
Not a thing
As stated, carry on
| 228 |
Lidane Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:10:28pm |
re: #222 engineer cat
hmmm i wonder what respectable philosophical position it was that was so compelling to 'southern conservative democrats' that it caused them to switch party affiliation en masse by the tens of millions between 1964 and 1980... thinking...
Exactly.
| 229 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:10:43pm |
| 230 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:11:05pm |
re: #219 palomino
Of course you're right to criticize bigotry no matter where it comes from. But the last 5 years (Obama's 3 years in office plus the primaries before that) have proven that the country isn't close to fully ready to move beyond the racism, xenophobia and religious bigotry that we like to pretend we've transcended.
America's biggest challenge by far in the coming decades is how we respond to the stresses put on the great American experiment. With the election of Obama, I was optimistic we were moving in the right direction. It's been replaced by pessimism at the racially motivated hysteria Obama has elicited, even though he rarely mentions race. I see no reason to think my side will be any more accomodating to Romney, if elected. The left is understandably furious over the contempt shown for Obama on the right. It would be great if more on the left had your sense of a moral high ground, but my suspicion is that Dems--if Romney wins--won't forget and will be looking for payback, which is always a bitch and will simply lead to more obstructionism. More so than at any time since the Civil War, our country has become nearly ungovernable.
I hear things were difficult in the 1960s as well.
They got better, in many ways.
And yes, there is going to be a quest for payback. There has been for several cycles now. The whole time conservatives were complaining that Bush was being unfairly criticized, worse than any president ever had been, I was thinking "Hah. You don't REMEMBER what you did to Bill Clinton?" And now we have Obama. (Frankly, I am not sure that what's hitting Obama is substantially worse than what was leveled at Bill Clinton, except it is on the Internet. I'm not sure how to compare the two with a fair rubric. I'm waiting on the impeachment charges.) It's ugly, and escalating. I hope it does not end with something like the Kennedy assassination. I know that many of my students' grandparents are entirely convinced it will.
As for the next episode, I think we have to wait to 2016, because I don't think Romney has more than a slim outside chance.
| 231 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:11:32pm |
re: #223 Capacious Casserole of Canine
Well, Joseph Smith did practice that...
He did?
(Missing the joke?)
| 232 |
palomino Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:11:55pm |
re: #179 sattv4u2
Have you got a specific date in mind when it's acceptable to criticize
Yes. Later!
/ (half)Don't know if it still applies, but we used to have a '24 hour rule" around here for stories that didn't as of yet have all the details of, keeping us from jumping to conclusions. I would think that at least that long after someones death would be smart
What do we not "have all the details of"?
Seems pretty straightforward. An old man died. That old man happened to be a convicted criminal, rabid homophobe and the most unsavory sort of political animal. This isn't a case with any unknown elements we need to wait for...unless you think, hold on, that the same folks who assassinated Breitbart finally got to Colson as well. It was MURDER!
| 233 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:13:12pm |
| 234 |
palomino Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:13:58pm |
re: #211 Dark_Falcon
I'd honestly make the point that the 'Southern Strategy' really was no more than the migration of of various types of Social Conservatives in the former Confederate States from the Democrats to the Republicans. Those seeking to criticize Nixon for encouraging such a move must ask what else Nixon could have done; Without those additional voters the GOP would have been in long-term minority status. Moreover, those Southern SoCons were not going to simply go away; If they had not stayed within the two party system
they might well have formed a third, regional party and then deadlock might have seting even stronger.
Really? So Nixon's excuse is, "I had to pursue an aggressively racist strategy; otherwise I might have lost the election." True profile in courage.
| 235 |
Ayeless in Ghazi Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:14:05pm |
re: #225 sattv4u2
Funny, I was going to ask you to do the same re: 209!
Um obviously enough, I was referring to what I quoted in the same post, - the suggestion that people were 'partying' over Colson's death. Now, your turn.
| 236 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:14:42pm |
re: #219 palomino
Of course you're right to criticize bigotry no matter where it comes from. But the last 5 years (Obama's 3 years in office plus the primaries before that) have proven that the country isn't close to fully ready to move beyond the racism, xenophobia and religious bigotry that we like to pretend we've transcended.
America's biggest challenge by far in the coming decades is how we respond to the stresses put on the great American experiment. With the election of Obama, I was optimistic we were moving in the right direction. It's been replaced by pessimism at the racially motivated hysteria Obama has elicited, even though he rarely mentions race. I see no reason to think my side will be any more accomodating to Romney, if elected. The left is understandably furious over the contempt shown for Obama on the right. It would be great if more on the left had your sense of a moral high ground, but my suspicion is that Dems--if Romney wins--won't forget and will be looking for payback, which is always a bitch and will simply lead to more obstructionism. More so than at any time since the Civil War, our country has become nearly ungovernable.
This I agree with.
| 237 |
Gus Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:14:50pm |
re: #235 Aye Pod
Um obviously enough, I was referring to what I quoted in the same post, - the suggestion that people were 'partying' over this Colson's death. Now, your turn.
Yeah, but KT was only joking.
//
| 238 |
Lidane Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:16:44pm |
re: #230 SanFranciscoZionist
Frankly, I am not sure that what's hitting Obama is substantially worse than what was leveled at Bill Clinton, except it is on the Internet. I'm not sure how to compare the two with a fair rubric. I'm waiting on the impeachment charges.
It's the same hysterics that were thrown at Clinton but on steroids due to the Internet, and with an added racist component that shows that a significant percentage of this country flipped their shit when a black man won the keys to the White House.
As for the next episode, I think we have to wait to 2016, because I don't think Romney has more than a slim outside chance.
He's got a chance. Anything can happen between now and November, after all. Still, I think the GOP is currently in the same place that the Dems were in 2004 -- running an unpopular, unlikable nominee while saddled with a party base that's driven more by anger than any reasonable ideas.
| 239 |
palomino Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:19:44pm |
re: #194 Dark_Falcon
That's not the point. The point is ultimately The O'Reilly Rule:
You cannot justify bad behavior by pointing to other bad behavior.
The answer to attacks on Barack Obama's ancestry is not a attack on Mitt Romney's ancestry.
Is that BILL O'Reilly's rule? If so the irony is thick enough to cut with a dull shoe.
Uhh, anyway I'm not trying to excuse Schweitzer (as you do with Nixon and his poisonous southern strategy). Rather I'm saying that this is all an inevitable outgrowth of an America changing far faster than ever before--way too fast for many people to accept. And that Republicans getting their panties in a twist over Gov. Schweitzer might want to look at their own house first...from the homophobia and racism of Gingrich, Bachmann, Santorum to the McCarthyesque charges of Allen West.
| 240 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:20:47pm |
re: #235 Aye Pod
Um obviously enough, I was referring to what I quoted in the same post, - the suggestion that people were 'partying' over this Colson's death. Now, your turn.
Did you purposely miss the "/" at the end of 192 or was it an honest oversight?
Now, your turn
(do we really have to say "now your turn" after each post waiting for the other of us to respond??)
| 241 |
engineer cat Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:21:02pm |
what was leveled at Bill Clinton
i remember being in CA's central valley in the 90s and wandering into one of those convenience stores that are attached to gas stations these days and encountering a large and varied display of 'novelty' items aimed exclusively at portraying then president clinton as a fat, lewd boob with a belly hanging out of his shirt and a large bulbous red nose
Ha Ha Ha.
ever since then i have no patience with anybody complaining about anything democrats have to say about republicans
| 242 |
Ben G. Hazi Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:21:50pm |
re: #240 sattv4u2
Did you purposely miss the "/" at the end of 192 or was it an honest oversight?
Now, your turn
(do we really have to say "now your turn" after each post waiting for the other of us to respond??)
It's like playing Monopoly...
/can I haz $200 for passing Go?
| 243 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:21:55pm |
re: #234 palomino
Really? So Nixon's excuse is, "I had to pursue an aggressively racist strategy; otherwise I might have lost the election." True profile in courage.
That's not an excuse, it's an explanation. In order to be president a politician must assemble a coalition that can win a majority of the Electoral College, and absent the Southern Strategy Nixon saw no way to do this. He believed that given that the Democrats were starting to be influenced by the Far Left (a situation that would be far more advanced by 1972), allowing them to hold the presidency would be a disaster. He felt he was needed and so used the means at hand to secure a majority.
Again, I am explaining, not agreeing with the rationale articulated above.
| 244 |
palomino Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:22:03pm |
re: #187 Dark_Falcon
Because if things aren't going to improve then the appropriate actions to take start becoming ugly. If peace across such lines is not possible, it would be wiser to stop trying to reach across them entirely, preferring instead to prepare for the fighting to come.
I couldn't agree more. Lincoln should have let the south secede and just said, "Good riddance."
| 245 |
Ayeless in Ghazi Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:22:50pm |
| 246 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:22:53pm |
Chicago White Sox pitcher on the verge of a perfect game
| 247 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:23:19pm |
| 249 |
palomino Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:24:03pm |
re: #217 SanFranciscoZionist
Well, since I've made it clear that I would rather be right than have Barack Obama be president, I suppose it's pretty clear what I think that Nixon should have done...
Ugly politics makes perfect sense. People do ugly politics to gain advantage.
It doesn't make it right.
But what makes you think Romney will not stoop as far or farther than Obama in this campaign? Romney's already accused Obama of not loving or understanding America. You don't need perfect hearing to detect that dog whistle.
| 251 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:26:20pm |
re: #244 palomino
I couldn't agree more. Lincoln should have let the south secede and just said, "Good riddance."
He felt that doing such would be the death knell of America, as he saw America's survival requiring the Union to be perpetual.
| 252 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:26:40pm |
PERFECT GAME!
No hits ,, no walks
congrats ,,,, only the 21st time in MLB history
| 253 |
engineer cat Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:28:00pm |
re: #243 Dark_Falcon
That's not an excuse, it's an explanation. In order to be president a politician must assemble a coalition that can win a majority of the Electoral College, and absent the Southern Strategy Nixon saw no way to do this. He believed that given that the Democrats were starting to be influenced by the Far Left (a situation that would be far more advanced by 1972), allowing them to hold the presidency would be a disaster. He felt he was needed and so used the means at hand to secure a majority.
Again, I am explaining, not agreeing with the rationale articulated above.
i appreciate your being honest about this but why would anybody continue to be a member of a party that had to base its survival on such a thing?
| 254 |
Lidane Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:28:11pm |
re: #252 sattv4u2
That is awesome.
I don't watch baseball as much as I used to back when I lived in Houston, but it's always cool when someone throws a perfect game. Amazing.
| 255 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:29:01pm |
re: #249 palomino
But what makes you think Romney will not stoop as far or farther than Obama in this campaign? Romney's already accused Obama of not loving or understanding America. You don't need perfect hearing to detect that dog whistle.
I deny that is a dog whistle. It has been used often enough against native born politicians for long enough to not qualify. May be if Mitt himself was a racist it would be different, but he's not.
| 256 |
Lidane Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:30:26pm |
re: #255 Dark_Falcon
I deny that is a dog whistle. It has been used often enough against native born politicians for long enough to not qualify. May be if Mitt himself was a racist it would be different, but he's not.
Explain the phrasing, please?
| 257 |
engineer cat Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:30:52pm |
re: #255 Dark_Falcon
I deny that is a dog whistle. It has been used often enough against native born politicians for long enough to not qualify. May be if Mitt himself was a racist it would be different, but he's not.
saying that a white person likes watermelon is not the same as saying that a black person likes watermelon
| 258 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:31:48pm |
re: #254 Lidane
That is awesome.
I don't watch baseball as much as I used to back when I lived in Houston, but it's always cool when someone throws a perfect game. Amazing.
I've never heard/ seen this guy before (Phil Humber) but he was dialed in today
| 259 |
Lidane Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:34:17pm |
re: #258 sattv4u2
I've never heard/ seen this guy before (Phil Humber) but he was dialed in today
I don't know him either. Haven't actively followed baseball in ages. That's just cool, though. It's like a total Zen experience.
| 260 |
Ayeless in Ghazi Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:35:10pm |
re: #240 sattv4u2
Did you purposely miss the "/" at the end of 192 or was it an honest oversight?
Now, your turn
(do we really have to say "now your turn" after each post waiting for the other of us to respond??)
When he updings you for complaining about people criticising him while he's not long dead it's pretty clear he's joining in with this gripe, not mocking it. Why do you have to be so disingenuous? It really doesn't fool anyone.
| 261 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:35:22pm |
re: #253 engineer cat
i appreciate your being honest about this but why would anybody continue to be a member of a party that had to base its survival on such a thing?
Because for a long time afterward the alternative was worse. The Democrats had largely lost their willingness to confront the spread of Communism by the 1970's, yet Communism advanced. For a white Northerner such as my father in 1980, Communism was a bigger threat than racism was, and that warranted Northern Republicans turning a blind eye during the remainder of the Cold War*. The phrase 'lesser of two evils' has purchase here.
*: There were also economic matters in which non-Southern Republicans found the Democrats in grave error, but I omitted these in the interests of brevity.
| 262 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:36:23pm |
re: #260 Aye Pod
When he updings you for complaining about people criticising him while he's not long dead it's pretty clear he's joining in with this gripe, not mocking it. Why do you have to be so disingenuous? It really doesn't fool anyone.
oh darn it
Lets try this
pull my finger!
| 263 |
allegro Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:37:09pm |
re: #249 palomino
But what makes you think Romney will not stoop as far or farther than Obama in this campaign? Romney's already accused Obama of not loving or understanding America. You don't need perfect hearing to detect that dog whistle.
Obama has no need to stoop. All he needs to do is point.
| 264 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:38:30pm |
re: #256 Lidane
Explain the phrasing, please?
Bad choice. Should read "politicians whose native birth had not been questioned". This in no way should be read to imply that the questioning of Barack Obama's place of birth was anything other than bad faith questioning.
| 265 |
palomino Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:40:18pm |
re: #230 SanFranciscoZionist
I hear things were difficult in the 1960s as well.
They got better, in many ways.
And yes, there is going to be a quest for payback. There has been for several cycles now. The whole time conservatives were complaining that Bush was being unfairly criticized, worse than any president ever had been, I was thinking "Hah. You don't REMEMBER what you did to Bill Clinton?" And now we have Obama. (Frankly, I am not sure that what's hitting Obama is substantially worse than what was leveled at Bill Clinton, except it is on the Internet. I'm not sure how to compare the two with a fair rubric. I'm waiting on the impeachment charges.) It's ugly, and escalating. I hope it does not end with something like the Kennedy assassination. I know that many of my students' grandparents are entirely convinced it will.
As for the next episode, I think we have to wait to 2016, because I don't think Romney has more than a slim outside chance.
Yes, you're absolutely right that Clinton had to put up with ugly charges--he was a socialist, a rapist, he killed Vince Foster, etc. But his American citizenship, race, religion, parentage, etc. were never really issues. Because Clinton wasn't all that different from previous presidents. Obama, OTOH, has had to endure attacks of all sorts that never were relevant before.
To me it suggests a cultural cleavage that I see only intensifying as the big demographic shifts spread across the country. SB 1070 in AZ is one example. Obama is another--has he gotten credit for anything from the right? Killing bin Laden was an objectively good thing to all Americans, but the right had to immediately give credit elsewhere. When we can't even give a prez props for killing public enemy no. 1, we're way off the rails. I don't see an antidote, and I don't see the country rallying around a Pres. Romney, just as they've steadfastly refused to rally around Obama in any way. This is all a sign of a nation that has a sickness at its core that it's unwilling to address.
| 266 |
palomino Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:41:21pm |
re: #251 Dark_Falcon
He felt that doing such would be the death knell of America, as he saw America's survival requiring the Union to be perpetual.
Do we seem like a "perpetual Union" at this point in our history?
| 267 |
engineer cat Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:43:12pm |
re: #261 Dark_Falcon
The Democrats had largely lost their willingness to confront the spread of Communism by the 1970's, yet Communism advanced.
what overt act or manifest events could you adduce to substantiate either of those claims for the period of the 70s?
| 268 |
Gus Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:43:35pm |
Charles Colson wrote novel in which gov promotes abortions after scientists discover fetal brain tissue cures AIDS bit.ly/J00zxp— Richard Bartholomew (@Barthsnotes) April 21, 2012
| 269 |
Gus Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:45:24pm |
Whoa!
In 1930s, Daily Mail backed Oswald Mosley. Today, headline reads: 'Only responsible vote is for Marine Le Pen' goo.gl/fLj26— Matthew Goodwin (@GoodwinMJ) April 21, 2012
| 270 |
Ayeless in Ghazi Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:45:48pm |
| 271 |
engineer cat Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:46:30pm |
re: #261 Dark_Falcon
but also:
'the spread of communism' is hardly a contemporary, live issue in the year 2012. racist mongering goes on, even increases, in the republican party
why would any respectable conservative continue to associate themselves with a movement that so easily accommodates, even protects, dog whistlers and even more blatant racists?
| 272 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:46:37pm |
re: #249 palomino
But what makes you think Romney will not stoop as far or farther than Obama in this campaign? Romney's already accused Obama of not loving or understanding America. You don't need perfect hearing to detect that dog whistle.
I have absolutely no expectations of Mitt Romney's behavior. Mitt will do whatever the hell he thinks will work. We've seen that already.
I'm not even going to tell Obama, should he call me and ask for advice, not to play hard and dirty. This is a national election we're talking about here.
But that was, oddly enough, my condemnation of the Southern Strategy that you responded to, and you're also responding negatively to Dark's statement that it was something Nixon had to do for the sake of the election. What's the right response here? If the Democrats had kept their old, sick racists somehow, and won on the back of that, would it have been OK?
My stance is 'there's shit you shouldn't do'. Not, 'you have to be as pure as the driven snow all the time', but just 'there's shit you shouldn't do'.
| 273 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:47:53pm |
| 274 |
Ayeless in Ghazi Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:48:08pm |
| 275 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:48:26pm |
re: #269 Gus
Whoa!
Ummm...that's...interesting taste.
Why are they weighing in on a French election, anyhow?
| 276 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:48:50pm |
| 277 |
Gus Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:49:32pm |
re: #275 SanFranciscoZionist
Ummm...that's...interesting taste.
Why are they weighing in on a French election, anyhow?
Yeah you're right. We Americans never weigh in on any international elections ever.
//
| 278 |
engineer cat Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:49:44pm |
american politics will continue to be gravely ill until all racists are wandering in the wilderness without the support of either the republicans or the democrats
| 279 |
palomino Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:50:01pm |
re: #255 Dark_Falcon
I deny that is a dog whistle. It has been used often enough against native born politicians for long enough to not qualify. May be if Mitt himself was a racist it would be different, but he's not.
Palin used essentially the same words 4 years ago to attack Obama after the conventions. I guess you'd argue it wasn't a dog whistle then?
Six months ago Romney's line on Obama was, "He's a good and decent man, I just happen to disagree with his policies." That didn't please the base, so Romney started in with the coded attacks that Obama is less American than the rest of us. And, if you don't think that has a racial element, you might want to look at the content of more right wing blogs.
I have no reason to think Romney is truly a racist, I don't know what's in his heart. I'm not sure anyone does except the computer programmer who last adjusted his circuitry. Instead he just does what's politically expedient. And if some dog whistles are expedient, so be it.
| 280 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:50:33pm |
re: #273 SanFranciscoZionist
I got faith.
scrounge up some hope and charity and you may be on to something!!!
/
| 281 |
Ben G. Hazi Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:51:04pm |
| 282 |
Ayeless in Ghazi Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:51:58pm |
re: #276 sattv4u2
Were those goggles your wedding gift from Ice??
Yes, after I saw you modelling them in that video I just had to have them.
| 283 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:52:34pm |
re: #277 Gus
Yeah you're right. We Americans never weigh in on any international elections ever.
//
I can't recall the last time a U.S. newspaper announced who they thought people should vote for in a Canadian or Mexican election.
Perhaps I missed it.
| 284 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:53:21pm |
re: #282 Aye Pod
Yes, after I saw you modelling them in that video I just had to have them.
The accent on the guy in the video is clearly not American
As they say in baseball, swingandamiss!!
(but nice try)
| 285 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:53:22pm |
re: #271 engineer cat
but also:
'the spread of communism' is hardly a contemporary, live issue in the year 2012. racist mongering goes on, even increases, in the republican party
why would any respectable conservative continue to associate themselves with a movement that so easily accommodates, even protects, dog whistlers and even more blatant racists?
I stopped at the Cold War for reasons of space and because of narcolepsy.
I cannot continue as it is 5:52 here and my family has dinner reservations at 6:30.
BBL
| 286 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:54:03pm |
re: #285 Dark_Falcon
I stopped at the Cold War for reasons of space and because of narcolepsy.
Updinged because this is the best sentence I've seen all day. You don't even NEED to know the context.
| 287 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:54:05pm |
re: #283 SanFranciscoZionist
I can't recall the last time a U.S. newspaper announced who they thought people should vote for in a Canadian or Mexican election.
Perhaps I missed it.
| 288 |
Gus Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:54:08pm |
re: #283 SanFranciscoZionist
I can't recall the last time a U.S. newspaper announced who they thought people should vote for in a Canadian or Mexican election.
Perhaps I missed it.
That's the Daily Mail from the UK endorsing far right, nationalist, Le Pen for the French elections.
| 289 |
palomino Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:55:40pm |
re: #272 SanFranciscoZionist
I have absolutely no expectations of Mitt Romney's behavior. Mitt will do whatever the hell he thinks will work. We've seen that already.
I'm not even going to tell Obama, should he call me and ask for advice, not to play hard and dirty. This is a national election we're talking about here.
But that was, oddly enough, my condemnation of the Southern Strategy that you responded to, and you're also responding negatively to Dark's statement that it was something Nixon had to do for the sake of the election. What's the right response here? If the Democrats had kept their old, sick racists somehow, and won on the back of that, would it have been OK?
My stance is 'there's shit you shouldn't do'. Not, 'you have to be as pure as the driven snow all the time', but just 'there's shit you shouldn't do'.
No, of course the Dems wouldn't have been justified if they'd excused the southern reactionaries in their party. But the Dems always had another wing, at least going back to the early 1900's--a progressive wing that stood for civil rights. Signing the CRA of 1964 was, for all practical purposes, the victory of that progressive wing and, at the same time, a big "fuck you" to southern Dems from their own party. So my point is that now I'm a Dem because they essentially purged the most backward element of the party 40+ years ago.
| 290 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:56:53pm |
re: #288 Gus
That's the Daily Mail from the UK endorsing far right, nationalist, Le Pen.
Yes. I got that.
I was puzzled as to why a British paper was endorsing a French candidate. Except that, as you point out, the record appears to indicate that they just like fascists.
| 291 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:58:47pm |
re: #289 palomino
No, of course the Dems wouldn't have been justified if they'd excused the southern reactionaries in their party. But the Dems always had another wing, at least going back to the early 1900's--a progressive wing that stood for civil rights. Signing the CRA of 1964 was, for all practical purposes, the victory of that progressive wing and, at the same time, a big "fuck you" to southern Dems from their own party. So my point is that now I'm a Dem because they essentially purged the most backward element of the party 40+ years ago.
Agreed, with both points.
| 292 |
Ayeless in Ghazi Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:59:01pm |
re: #284 sattv4u2
The accent on the guy in the video is clearly not American
As they say in baseball, swingandamiss!!
(but nice try)
Jesus Christ LOL
| 293 |
engineer cat Sat, Apr 21, 2012 4:00:35pm |
re: #289 palomino
No, of course the Dems wouldn't have been justified if they'd excused the southern reactionaries in their party. But the Dems always had another wing, at least going back to the early 1900's--a progressive wing that stood for civil rights. Signing the CRA of 1964 was, for all practical purposes, the victory of that progressive wing and, at the same time, a big "fuck you" to southern Dems from their own party. So my point is that now I'm a Dem because they essentially purged the most backward element of the party 40+ years ago.
yes
the beginning of the progressive tradition in the modern democratic party dates back to the election of 1896 when existing progressive and populist movements joined the democratic party and nominated william jennings bryan
mckinley ran against him in 1896 and 1900 declaring that bryan was anti business and that his election would lead to a depression
| 294 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 21, 2012 4:01:51pm |
re: #292 Aye Pod
Jesus Christ LOL
No,, I don't think the guy in the video looked/ sounded Hispanic either!!
| 295 |
palomino Sat, Apr 21, 2012 4:03:53pm |
re: #273 SanFranciscoZionist
I got faith.
Why? Socioeconomic and other projections for the future don't bode well for the unity of the US. As it becomes bigger and more diverse, not just ethnically but more importantly religiously and culturally, I'm afraid that some sort of balkanization is a possibility. Probably many decades away, but at a certain point a country can become too large and unwieldy to govern effectively.
| 296 |
palomino Sat, Apr 21, 2012 4:05:14pm |
re: #293 engineer cat
yes
the beginning of the progressive tradition in the modern democratic party dates back to the election of 1896 when existing progressive and populist movements joined the democratic party and nominated william jennings bryan
mckinley ran against him in 1896 and 1900 declaring that bryan was anti business and that his election would lead to a depression
Bryan was quite a character. Got the Dem nod 3 times and lost each one.
| 297 |
engineer cat Sat, Apr 21, 2012 4:05:19pm |
| 298 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Apr 21, 2012 4:07:56pm |
re: #295 palomino
Why? Socioeconomic and other projections for the future don't bode well for the unity of the US. As it becomes bigger and more diverse, not just ethnically but more importantly religiously and culturally, I'm afraid that some sort of balkanization is a possibility. Probably many decades away, but at a certain point a country can become too large and unwieldy to govern effectively.
Because we've come through bad times and big changes before.
| 299 |
engineer cat Sat, Apr 21, 2012 4:08:18pm |
Employment for Labor
A Full Dinner Bucket
Prosperity
Sound Money - Good Markets
mckinley 1900 or romney 2012?
| 300 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Apr 21, 2012 4:13:22pm |
re: #299 engineer cat
Employment for Labor
A Full Dinner Bucket
Prosperity
Sound Money - Good Marketsmckinley 1900 or romney 2012?
Well,, seeing that today McKinley would be 169 years old, i'll opt for the younger Romney
| 302 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Apr 22, 2012 4:12:39am |
re: #231 SanFranciscoZionist
He did?
(Missing the joke?)
Yeah, he married several women who had living husbands.
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