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303 comments

1 austin_blue  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 11:27:18am

Tight as tick, this boyo is!

2 Mich-again  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 11:31:06am

That was incredible. wow.

3 HappyWarrior  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 11:33:26am

Thanks. Not too many sites you can get interesting discussion and good tunes. This guy is really good.

4 Digital Display  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 11:38:57am

There is some licks there that sound so dang familiar.. What song is that?

5 Digital Display  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 11:45:19am

And now my outrage today.. I don't have many.
The Wall Street Journal is reporting that the Tea Party may defeat Sen. Lugar (IN) in the primary in 2 weeks. He isn't hard core RW enough.
He's a moderate 35 yr. Senator that reaches across the gulf to get things done for America. We need more Sen. Lugars.. Not less.
Effen you Tea Party...You finally pissed me off to no end.

6 dragonfire1981  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 11:50:26am

re: #5 HoosierHoops

And now my outrage today.. I don't have many.
The Wall Street Journal is reporting that the Tea Party may defeat Sen. Lugar (IN) in the primary in 2 weeks. He isn't hard core RW enough.
He's a moderate 35 yr. Senator that reaches across the gulf to get things done for America. We need more Sen. Lugars.. Not less.
Effen you Tea Party...You finally pissed me off to no end.

I am surprised it took them so long in your case.

7 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 11:51:34am

re: #5 HoosierHoops

And now my outrage today.. I don't have many.
The Wall Street Journal is reporting that the Tea Party may defeat Sen. Lugar (IN) in the primary in 2 weeks. He isn't hard core RW enough.
He's a moderate 35 yr. Senator that reaches across the gulf to get things done for America. We need more Sen. Lugars.. Not less.
Effen you Tea Party...You finally pissed me off to no end.

Just give them enough rope, so to speak. They will be the demise of a major American political party.

8 Gus  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 12:04:45pm

Orrin Hatch did not get 60 percent. There will be a primary.

9 austin_blue  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 12:05:44pm

And at half time, in Barcelona, it is Real Madrid 1 and Barca 0.

10 Kronocide  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 12:10:03pm
Protecting the environment is surely a worthy goal. But as a layman, I don't understand how the scientists invoked could always be sure of these things. Things like the notion that man's activities (more exactly, man's activities in developed countries) are what supposedly cause various catastrophes in nature.

Thirty five years ago, many scientists warned of the catastrophe of the earth cooling. In the short span since, it heated up so much so that we're now at risk for global warming?

Ignorance is the greatest catastrophe.

11 Mich-again  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 12:13:11pm

re: #10 Kronocide

Climate denial is collective cognitive dissonance for greedy people who don't want to admit to their offspring that they really don't give a flying F* what kind of world they leave behind.

12 wrenchwench  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 12:22:37pm
Frank says:

My music is like a movie for your ear.

So is Maneli Jamal's.

I think he's living in Toronto. His girlfriend is in Austin, where he used to live. But the stuff I was reading (his website and Facebook page) could be out of date.

13 Charles Johnson  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 12:24:58pm

re: #12 wrenchwench

So is Maneli Jamal's.

I think he's living in Toronto. His girlfriend is in Austin, where he used to live. But the stuff I was reading (his website and Facebook page) could be out of date.

Ah, OK. I was going by the description in one of his YouTube videos, probably out of date too.

14 Charles Johnson  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 12:26:07pm

Here's his website, in fact: [Link: www.manelijamal.com...]

15 wrenchwench  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 12:27:03pm

That's a pretty high tech looking capo. Is it on four strings or five?

16 prairiefire  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 12:29:36pm

Happy Saturday, lizards!

17 Charles Johnson  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 12:30:13pm

re: #15 wrenchwench

That's a pretty high tech looking capo. Is it on four strings or five?

I believe it's on the bottom four strings. He crosses over and plays above the capo at one point.

18 Mich-again  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 12:32:01pm

From Frank Says:

Some people crave baseball -- I find this unfathomable

Frank probably never spent much time playing catch with his son in the street, yelling CAR and asking neighbors for a LITTLE HELP!

As my youngest son finishes out his baseball career in his senior season of high school and I start to realize the days of playing catch are probably coming to an end soon, I get kind of sentimemtal just thinking about all the thousands of times we've played catch in front of the house in the street. Frank, that is the first quote I've read from you that made me think how very little you might just know about life..

19 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 12:38:35pm

Some people crave baseball *and* football. Doubly unfathomable.

20 Kragar  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 12:45:27pm

Brian Schweitzer: Mitt Romney’s ‘Family Came From a Polygamy Commune in Mexico’

The Daily Beast contacted the office of Montana Gov. Brian Schweitzer today to talk about whether his state would be in play in the 2012 presidential election. About a half hour later, the governor called back, and he had a lot to say. He didn’t think that Montana would be a swing state, but the Democrat did say that Mitt Romney could have issues nationally because his father was “born on a polygamy commune in Mexico.”

While discussing swing states, Schweitzer said Romney would have a “tall order to position Hispanics to vote for him,” and I replied that was mildly ironic since Mitt’s father was born in Mexico, giving the clan a nominal claim to being Hispanic. Schweitzer replied that it is “kinda ironic given that his family came from a polygamy commune in Mexico, but then he’d have to talk about his family coming from a polygamy commune in Mexico, given the gender discrepancy.” Women, he said, are “not great fans of polygamy, 86 percent were not great fans of polygamy. I am not alleging by any stretch that Romney is a polygamist and approves of [the] polygamy lifestyle, but his father was born into [a] polygamy commune in Mexico.”

/faceplam

21 sattv4u2  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 12:49:11pm

re: #20 Kragar

"Mr. Romney will now be asked to provide all long form marriage licenses for himself and all his forebears"

/

22 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 12:50:53pm

re: #20 Kragar

He is completely correct and truthful about the background of Romney's family though. I just a "two can play at that game" situation.

Also, big news from the Netherlands:

The Rutte cabinet, the current cabinet of the Netherlands, collapses after coalition partner Party for Freedom suspends its support.

What caused the split?

23 Gus  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 12:51:08pm

re: #18 Mich-again

From Frank Says:

Frank probably never spent much time playing catch with his son in the street, yelling CAR and asking neighbors for a LITTLE HELP!

As my youngest son finishes out his baseball career in his senior season of high school and I start to realize the days of playing catch are probably coming to an end soon, I get kind of sentimemtal just thinking about all the thousands of times we've played catch in front of the house in the street. Frank, that is the first quote I've read from you that made me think how very little you might just know about life..

Frank Zappa - Greggary Peccary - 1972

Joann Caldwell McNab on bassoon.

24 sattv4u2  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 12:56:07pm

re: #22 ProGunLiberal


He is completely correct and truthful about the background of Romney's family though

Not "completely correct and truthful"

(George) Romney's parents, Gaskell Romney (1871–1955) and Anna Amelia Pratt (1876–1926), were American citizens and natives of Utah. They married in 1895 in Mexico and lived in Colonia Dublán in Galeana in the state of Chihuahua (one of the Mormon colonies in Mexico) where George was born on July 8, 1907.[1][3][6] They practiced monogamy[1] (polygamy having been abolished by the 1890 Manifesto, although it persisted in places, especially Mexico

25 Gus  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 12:57:29pm
27 Gus  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 12:59:11pm

See how it's connected yet? ;)

28 sattv4u2  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 12:59:22pm

re: #25 Gus

Image: Peccary2.jpg

Thats the ugliest dog i've ever seen!!

29 Gus  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:00:10pm

re: #28 sattv4u2

Thats the ugliest dog i've ever seen!!

Part pig. Part skunk. And something else. That's a descendant of Greggory Peccary.

//

30 sattv4u2  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:00:47pm

re: #29 Gus

Part pig. Part skunk. And something else. That's a descendant of Greggory Peccary.

//

The 1st P-Unk ???

31 Mich-again  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:00:51pm

re: #23 Gus

well, I'm like 9 minutes into that and I'd rather play catch in the street..

32 Gus  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:00:59pm

Not really part skunk. They call it a Skunk Pug.

33 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:01:42pm

re: #24 sattv4u2

This cached page from the Deseret News says otherwise.

Also, two other points. One: If your side wants to do birtherism, two can play at this game. Don't want this to be used? Then don't do birtherism.

Second: Alot of us over on this side want revenge for Prop 8. And some of us even have other bones to pick.

34 prairiefire  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:02:52pm

I am really enjoying the political trash talking. The activists are just getting warmed up. I would like to hear more dissing from the young feminists. I know you're out there!

35 Gus  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:03:05pm

re: #31 Mich-again

well, I'm like 9 minutes into that and I'd rather play catch in the street..

[Embedded content]

Communism!

36 wrenchwench  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:03:49pm

re: #24 sattv4u2

although it persisted in places, especially Mexico

They did practice polygamy in Mexico in that community. I don't know about those particular Romneys, but the reason for going to Mexico was to continue the practice.

I think the "commune" part is inaccurate.

37 sattv4u2  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:05:00pm

re: #33 ProGunLiberal

This cached page from the Deseret News says otherwise.

Also, two other points. One: If your side wants to do birtherism, two can play at this game. Don't want this to be used? Then don't do birtherism.

Second: Alot of us over on this side want revenge for Prop 8. And some of us even have other bones to pick.

"my side"!?!?!
When have you ever seen me 'side" with a birther, in any way shape or form?

"revenge',, you sure seem to want to extract "revenge" about a myriad of things
Go bark up someone elses tree

38 prairiefire  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:05:12pm

re: #24 sattv4u2

He is completely correct and truthful about the background of Romney's family though

Not "completely correct and truthful"

(George) Romney's parents, Gaskell Romney (1871–1955) and Anna Amelia Pratt (1876–1926), were American citizens and natives of Utah. They married in 1895 in Mexico and lived in Colonia Dublán in Galeana in the state of Chihuahua (one of the Mormon colonies in Mexico) where George was born on July 8, 1907.[1][3][6] They practiced monogamy[1] (polygamy having been abolished by the 1890 Manifesto, although it persisted in places, especially Mexico

So were they practicing polygamy in Mexico where it was allowed

39 Gus  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:05:43pm

A) “The bassoon is one of my favorite instruments. It has a medieval aroma, like the days when everything used to sound like that. Some people crave baseball...I find this unfathomable, but I can easily understand why a person could get excited about playing the bassoon.”
― Frank Zappa

B) Greggory Peccary with bassoon - Frank Zappa 1974

C) Dog Meat - Frank Zappa 1974

D) Communism!

//

40 sattv4u2  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:07:26pm

re: #33 ProGunLiberal

Oh ,, and as far as your 'link'

the Republican presidential candidate's great-grandfather

Thats far removed from "his father was “born on a polygamy commune in Mexico.” that you claimed to be "completely correct,,"

41 wrenchwench  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:07:48pm

re: #38 prairiefire

So were they practicing polygamy in Mexico where it was allowed

It was illegal there too, but there was no enforcement.

42 prairiefire  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:08:37pm

"I think the "commune" part is inaccurate."

That word is alluding to licentious, a character flaw.[Link: www.merriam-webster.com...]

43 Mich-again  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:08:44pm

I don't give a hoot what Mitt's grandparents were doing or not doing in the late 1800's. Mitt has enough of his own track record to run against.

44 sattv4u2  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:08:45pm

re: #38 prairiefire

So were they practicing polygamy in Mexico where it was allowed

Probably WHEN, as much as WHERE

As stated, it was outlawed there in 1890

45 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:08:55pm

re: #37 sattv4u2

Do I have bloodlust problems? Yes, yes I do.

However, if you don't these attacks on Romney, stop the Birthers on the Conservative side of the Culture War. Right now, I just see the other side as thin-skinned bullies needing a taste of their own medicine.

And that doesn't even get into the fact that Utah and the South have a very similar history vis-a-vis the Federal Government.

46 abolitionist  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:09:03pm
47 sattv4u2  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:09:40pm

re: #45 ProGunLiberal

Do I have bloodlust problems? Yes, yes I do.

Seek help ,,, immediate help

48 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:10:27pm

My Computer says it is 3:09, my phone says it's 4:09.

Where Am I?

How are you?

49 wrenchwench  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:10:56pm

re: #25 Gus

Image: Peccary2.jpg

We've had those run through the yard. The babies are really cute. The adults are kinda scary. Anything that has big tusks and enjoys eating cactus is scary.

50 sattv4u2  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:10:56pm

re: #40 sattv4u2

Sorrry,,,, after "great grandfather" the rest was not supposed to be in bold and italics

51 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:11:12pm

re: #47 sattv4u2

And they tend to be against political targets. I relieve pressure through just bashing the other side. And I am getting help, but it is a slow process.

re: #48 ggt

When did you travel last?

52 sattv4u2  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:12:29pm

re: #51 ProGunLiberal

And they tend to be against political targets

I don't give a rats ass if it's 'against" spiders

having a "bloodlust problem" is a huge problem

53 Gus  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:13:21pm

re: #49 wrenchwench

We've had those run through the yard. The babies are really cute. The adults are kinda scary. Anything that has big tusks and enjoys eating cactus is scary.

Image: Peccary_Babies_027.jpg

54 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:13:53pm

re: #50 sattv4u2

No, George Romney was born on a compound in Mexico, which had a history of polygamy.

Don't like the heat? Stay out of the kitchen, and don't do the same to Obama.

55 wrenchwench  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:14:10pm

re: #53 Gus

Image: Peccary_Babies_027.jpg

Hamsters with trotters!

56 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:14:53pm

re: #51 ProGunLiberal

And they tend to be against political targets. I relieve pressure through just bashing the other side. And I am getting help, but it is a slow process.

re: #48 ggt

When did you travel last?

Hawaii. then home (chicago) now someplace different.

57 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:15:20pm

re: #53 Gus

Image: Peccary_Babies_027.jpg

ooooh, they are cute.

58 sattv4u2  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:15:42pm

re: #55 wrenchwench

Hamsters with trotters!

I just got a mental image of a hamster replacing the horse here

Image: NAN5353.jpg

59 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:16:02pm

Hint: It's a beautiful part of the country and some big Christian Group has a huge building downtown across the street from the hotel.

60 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:16:35pm

re: #56 ggt

And I see what happened. The thingy with the wrong time is stuck (timewise) in another timezone.

61 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:16:56pm
62 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:17:04pm

re: #60 ProGunLiberal

And I see what happened. The thingy with the wrong time is stuck (timewise) in another timezone.

Ah yes, but it's a game. Where in the World is GGT?

63 wrenchwench  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:17:09pm

re: #42 prairiefire

"I think the "commune" part is inaccurate."

That word is alluding to licentious, a character flaw.[Link: www.merriam-webster.com...]

Not very many people use the word commune in a non-pejorative context these days. Especially wingnuts, who never have.

The whole thing is irrelevant, of course.

64 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:17:13pm

re: #59 ggt

Colorado Springs?

65 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:18:00pm

re: #64 ProGunLiberal

Colorado Springs?

No, Super Christian Country.

66 sattv4u2  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:18:51pm

re: #54 ProGunLiberal


George Romney was born on a compound in Mexico, which had a history of polygamy.

But the practice was outlawed there before he was born AND his parents (Mitts grandparents) never practiced. So your link was false

Don't like the heat?

Doesn't bother me at all, but it does seem to bring out the "blood lust" in you


don't do the same to Obama.

Don't accuse/ intimate something of me that I don't do

67 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:20:14pm

People are complaining that it is unseasonably cool here and are wearing warm coats. I have on a sweat shirt and am kinda warm.

Famous City, they say Y'll here.

68 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:21:17pm

I could give a damn about Mitt Romney and/or his grandparents.

69 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:24:11pm

What give's a husband the right? Anyone the right?

Why would anyone do this to another human being?

70 sattv4u2  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:27:23pm

re: #69 ggt

My Gawd

71 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:27:50pm

re: #33 ProGunLiberal

This cached page from the Deseret News says otherwise.

Also, two other points. One: If your side wants to do birtherism, two can play at this game. Don't want this to be used? Then don't do birtherism.

Second: Alot of us over on this side want revenge for Prop 8. And some of us even have other bones to pick.

Rant to follow:

His great-great-grandfather had two wives? A Mormon in Utah in the ninteenth century had more than one wife? I may faint.

Wait, why does this have anything to do with Mitt again? The LDS church banned polygamy over a century ago, and Mitt's been married to Ann Romney for about a million years. And no one else. Let's say his FATHER had SIX wives. Why would I care?

Birtherism is stupid. It does not get smarter if we are playing at it. Given that the seeds of inspecting Obama's citizenship were reportedly first planted by the Clinton campaign, it is also clear that birtherism comes back and bites your party in the ass.

I would rather be at least slightly classy than have Barack Obama be president again. And the best part is, I don't think we have to pick.

Also, Mitt is hated by the same people who are birthers, so this is indulging them, not fighting them.

As for Prop 8, Mitt didn't do it.

Religious bigotry is wrong, no matter how palatable it is made for me and my political beliefs. I'm not going to vote for Mitt because he's Mitt Romney, and he's a Republican, and a panderer, and I think he's made out of plastic, not because he's a Mormon.

72 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:28:44pm

re: #71 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm not going to vote for Mitt because he's Mitt Romney,

Yup

73 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:28:52pm

re: #69 ggt

Pakistan has refused to act against these sort of things. They are so obsessed with the military, they have let the rest of the country rot away. At least one region has had enough of this (Balochistan).

74 sattv4u2  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:30:06pm

re: #71 SanFranciscoZionist

marry me

75 Lidane  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:30:17pm

re: #8 Gus

Orrin Hatch did not get 60 percent. There will be a primary.

Between Hatch having to face a primary and Lugar possibly going down, the teabaggers on FR are in full celebration mode.

76 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:31:12pm

re: #69 ggt

What give's a husband the right? Anyone the right?

Why would anyone do this to another human being?

I don't know why the subcontinent has such terrible problems with this stuff. Acid attacks, bride burning, honor killings in the Muslim,Hindu and Sikh communities...the men I've met from that part of the world don't seem to hate women with a visible pathological passion, so what the hell is up?

People suck.

77 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:31:22pm

re: #73 ProGunLiberal

Pakistan has refused to act against these sort of things. They are so obsessed with the military, they have let the rest of the country rot away. At least one region has had enough of this (Balochistan).

I'm suprised more women don't fight back. Can you imagine what would happen to a husband in this country if he did such a thing to his wife?

Yes, women here do have legal and financal recourse, but I think more than enough husbands would have a healthy fear of other retribution.

78 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:31:38pm

re: #75 Lidane

This hurts them though. Because it drives away more moderates, and shrinks the tent more. Now, we maybe, by some miracle, be able to pick up Indiana.

79 Lidane  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:32:34pm

re: #71 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm not going to vote for Mitt because he's Mitt Romney, and he's a Republican, and a panderer, and I think he's made out of plastic, not because he's a Mormon.

This.

I don't give a damn what mythical sky father Mitt Romney believes in. I care that his politics and policies suck, that he has no principles to speak of, and that he's pandering to the ignorant, atavistic Republican base that would rather see this country burn than see anyone to the left of Attila the Hun elected.

80 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:33:19pm

re: #76 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't know why the subcontinent has such terrible problems with this stuff. Acid attacks, bride burning, honor killings in the Muslim,Hindu and Sikh communities...the men I've met from that part of the world don't seem to hate women with a visible pathological passion, so what the hell is up?

People suck.

I think it's the inability to control their own sexual urges. The one husband blamed his wife saying she "took too much pride in her beauty". IN a culture that places high value on women's beauty. I think perhaps HE took too much pride in her beauty and felt he had to obliterate it for his own soul- -or he feared another man coveted her beauty.

Objectification -- for what ever reason.

81 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:33:49pm

re: #77 ggt

Again, that's because, unlike India and Bangladesh, Pakistan has done zippity-doo-da to fix these issues of hyper-misogyny. In fact, they are promoting it through their puppet, the Taliban.

And now, Pakistan is the dysfunctional morass it is. And it is no one's fault other than their own.

82 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:33:54pm

re: #74 sattv4u2

marry me

I was going to say I was already taken, but heck, we're talking about polygamy. Why should polyandry not be OK?

83 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:34:28pm

re: #78 ProGunLiberal

This hurts them though. Because it drives away more moderates, and shrinks the tent more. Now, we maybe, by some miracle, be able to pick up Indiana.

While driving into INdiana the other day there was a homemade billboard by the highway that read: HELL IS REAL.

I felt there were just a few jokes in that.

84 Lidane  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:34:40pm

re: #78 ProGunLiberal

This hurts them though. Because it drives away more moderates, and shrinks the tent more.

The teabaggers WANT the tent to shrink. They want the moderates and independents that they consider RINOs to get the hell out of the Republican party. They want to push the GOP as far to the right as possible.

85 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:36:15pm

re: #77 ggt

I'm suprised more women don't fight back. Can you imagine what would happen to a husband in this country if he did such a thing to his wife?

Yes, women here do have legal and financal recourse, but I think more than enough husbands would have a healthy fear of other retribution.

Legal and financial recourse, and also, education, a sense of themselves as people...if a woman is married very young, has no education, how is she going to even conceptualize that this is not OK, let alone fight back?

And unfortunately, the women in the husband's family often side with their sons, so no help to be had from your MIL.

These women are more like kidnap victims in some ways than what I think of as a wife.

86 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:36:36pm

re: #82 SanFranciscoZionist

I was going to say I was already taken, but heck, we're talking about polygamy. Why should polyandry not be OK?

It would certainly help with the population levels!

I think we should look into the benefits!

87 sattv4u2  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:36:54pm

re: #82 SanFranciscoZionist

I was going to say I was already taken, but heck, we're talking about polygamy. Why should polyandry not be OK?

As long as Hubbie # 1 makes enough $$$ to keep both of us in the lifestyle we're entitled too!!!

/

88 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:37:30pm

re: #85 SanFranciscoZionist

Legal and financial recourse, and also, education, a sense of themselves as people...if a woman is married very young, has no education, how is she going to even conceptualize that this is not OK, let alone fight back?

And unfortunately, the women in the husband's family often side with their sons, so no help to be had from your MIL.

These women are more like kidnap victims in some ways than what I think of as a wife.

A lot of Pakistani women are educated and worldly --depends on what part of the country they are from, I guess.

89 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:38:31pm

re: #87 sattv4u2

As long as Hubbie # 1 makes enough $$$ to keep both of us in the lifestyle we're entitled too!!!

/

Hmmmm. I need to know more about this lifestyle you want. Do you expect to get a whole ramen noodle packet to yourself?

90 Killgore Trout  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:38:51pm

re: #85 SanFranciscoZionist

Legal and financial recourse, and also, education, a sense of themselves as people...if a woman is married very young, has no education, how is she going to even conceptualize that this is not OK, let alone fight back?

And unfortunately, the women in the husband's family often side with their sons, so no help to be had from your MIL.

These women are more like kidnap victims in some ways than what I think of as a wife.

True. Women and daughter are also seen as a financial liability in many cultures. They are, in many ways, expendable.

91 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:39:16pm

re: #83 ggt

Oh, there are SO MANY!!! I can't choose which one. It's like an all you can eat buffet, but with snark instead.

re: #85 SanFranciscoZionist

There was an Atlantic Article I found yesterday that I linked. It said the same thing as you are saying now. You nailed it.

Unfortately, Pakistan's Government doesn't give a damn. They care more about doing Terror Attacks in India, as well as harassing the US and just being general twatwaffles.

Something will eventually break in Pakistan. At some point, Balochistan will probably become independent.

92 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:39:28pm

re: #88 ggt

A lot of Pakistani women are educated and worldly --depends on what part of the country they are from, I guess.

True, and in India too. My impression, and it may be incorrect, is that this kind of thing is more common in rural and underdeveloped parts of the country, less so in more affluent and educated areas. I could completely not get it, though.

93 sattv4u2  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:39:51pm

re: #89 SanFranciscoZionist

Hmmm. I need to know more about this lifestyle you want. Do you expect to get a whole ramen noodle packet to yourself?

no, I'll share

but control of the TV remote is non-negotiable

94 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:40:13pm

re: #93 sattv4u2

no, I'll share

but control of the TV remote is non-negotiable

What about the bank account?

95 sattv4u2  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:41:00pm

re: #94 ggt

What about the bank account?

I just paid for my sons tuition, so we'll have to depend on SFZ husbands!!

96 compound_Idaho  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:41:09pm

re: #18 Mich-again

From Frank Says:

Frank probably never spent much time playing catch with his son in the street, yelling CAR and asking neighbors for a LITTLE HELP!

As my youngest son finishes out his baseball career in his senior season of high school and I start to realize the days of playing catch are probably coming to an end soon, I get kind of sentimemtal just thinking about all the thousands of times we've played catch in front of the house in the street. Frank, that is the first quote I've read from you that made me think how very little you might just know about life..

My son is a high school senior playing his last year of ball as well. He is 18 years old and he asked me to play catch just this morning.

97 [deleted]  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:41:11pm
98 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:42:09pm

re: #92 SanFranciscoZionist

You are correct. Again, India and Bangladesh are doing things to solve this problem.

Also, I wanted to make a note about Algeria. This is in regards to the leader of the terrorist group Ansar Dine, Iyad Ag Ghaly:

Jeremy Keenan, professor at the School of Oriental and African Studies in London, stated that the military contribution of ag Ghaly's fighters was slight compared to the much larger MNLA: "What seems to happen is that when they move into a town, the MNLA take out the military base — not that there's much resistance — and Iyad goes into town and puts up his flag and starts bossing everyone around about sharia law." According to Keenan, Ag Ghaly is linked to the Algerian intelligence service.

Algeria is just the Maghreb version of Pakistan.

99 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:43:42pm

re: #97 MikeySDCA

And I found a dumb as hell tweet about it:

100 Gus  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:47:47pm

R.S. McCain currently throwing pebbles at the LGF castle again. Derp.

101 wrenchwench  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:48:54pm

re: #100 Gus

R.S. McCain currently throwing pebbles at the LGF castle again. Derp.

Baaa.

102 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:49:45pm

re: #100 Gus

Where's the catapult with the dead cow as ammo?

103 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:50:04pm

re: #102 ProGunLiberal

Where's the catapult with the dead cow as ammo?

trebuchet, not catapult.

104 sattv4u2  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:52:00pm

re: #103 ggt

trebuchet, not catapult.

Alex Trebuchet??

Image: AlexFramed.JPG
/

105 Gus  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:52:04pm

re: #101 wrenchwench

Baaa.

The latest is some 12,000 word screed about what Thanos has been paging. It even has screen shots. Apparently, "we're all next!"

[Dobro slide.]

106 Charles Johnson  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:53:24pm

re: #105 Gus

The latest is some 12,000 word screed about what Thanos has been paging. It even has screen shots. Apparently, "we're all next!"

[Dobro slide.]

McCain makes fun of Thanos for misspelling 'minuscule' -- what a dumbass. Thanos spelled it correctly, and McCain's spelling is WRONG.

107 wrenchwench  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:55:12pm

re: #105 Gus

The latest is some 12,000 word screed about what Thanos has been paging. It even has screen shots. Apparently, "we're all next!"

[Dobro slide.]

The word 'wrench' appears in his first update, but not related to me in any way.

108 sattv4u2  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:55:56pm

re: #106 Charles Johnson

McCain makes fun of Thanos for misspelling 'minuscule' -- what a dumbass. Thanos spelled it correctly, and McCain's spelling is WRONG.

iirc, both are acceptable (with the "u" after the "n" as well as with a 2nd "i" after the "n")

109 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:56:40pm

re: #104 sattv4u2

Alex Trebuchet??

Image: AlexFramed.JPG
/

yeah him!

110 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:57:41pm

re: #103 ggt

trebuchet, not catapult.

I cannot endorse the pulting of cats.

111 Charles Johnson  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:58:05pm

re: #108 sattv4u2

iirc, both are acceptable (with the "u" after tyhe "n" as well as with a 2nd "i" after the "n")

The second spelling is not generally accepted as an alternate spelling, but it's becoming increasingly common.

112 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:58:51pm

Why does the name Thanos ring a bell?

113 sattv4u2  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:59:24pm

re: #112 ggt

Why does the name Thanos ring a bell?

used to post here

other than that, I got nuffin!

114 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 1:59:39pm

re: #113 sattv4u2

used to post here

other than that, I got nuffin!

must be it.

115 Gus  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:01:09pm

re: #111 Charles Johnson

The second spelling is not generally accepted as an alternate spelling, but it's becoming increasingly common.

Who the heck is @dan_verg_?

116 sattv4u2  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:02:02pm

re: #111 Charles Johnson

The second spelling is not generally accepted as an alternate spelling, but it's becoming increasingly common.

Been around for a long time

[Link: www.merriam-webster.com...]

[Link: www.barnsdle.demon.co.uk...]

117 palomino  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:02:10pm

re: #61 SanFranciscoZionist

Heeere we go!

Sure it was dumb of Schweitzer to say that, but it's the inevitable outcome of Obama being attacked by gop politicans, over the last 5 years, for everything from being a Kenyan to a commie to a non-citizen to an America hater to a Muslim to a radical who hates whites. Rhetoric filled with coarse lies and racism begets more coarse rhetoric.

118 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:03:02pm

AS we drove into town, this was rather impressive. I can only imagine how impressive it was before all the modern buildings were built around it.

It's on a rather large/tall hill.

119 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:03:25pm

re: #105 Gus

The latest is some 12,000 word screed about what Thanos has been paging. It even has screen shots. Apparently, "we're all next!"

[Dobro slide.]

What has Thanos been paging?

120 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:03:33pm

outta here.

Have a great one all!

121 Charles Johnson  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:03:40pm

re: #115 Gus

Who the heck is @dan_verg_?

I think he might have tweeted to me a couple of times.

122 sattv4u2  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:04:32pm

re: #119 SanFranciscoZionist

What has Thanos been paging?

Phillip Morris!!!

Image: Ad%20Philip%20Morris%202.jpg

(damn, I'm old!!)

123 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:04:55pm

re: #117 palomino

Sure it was dumb of Schweitzer to say that, but it's the inevitable outcome of Obama being attacked by gop politicans, over the last 5 years, for everything from being a Kenyan to a commie to a non-citizen to an America hater to a Muslim to a radical who hates whites. Rhetoric filled with coarse lies and racism begets more coarse rhetoric.

I refuse to relinquish the high ground. We CANNOT allow this to become what American politics is.

Also, it's breeding contempt for Mormons in general, not Romney in particular.

124 Gus  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:05:38pm

re: #119 SanFranciscoZionist

What has Thanos been paging?

He's whining about the last few. Don't really know. Apparently he now lives at LGF like the stalkers and reads every page or something.

125 Ben G. Hazi  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:06:20pm

re: #124 Gus

He's whining about the last few. Don't really know. Apparently he now lives at LGF like the stalkers and reads every page or something.

Not bad, with Charles and LGF being "irrelevant" and all...

/can't wash LGF outta your hair, can you, RSM?

126 blueraven  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:06:34pm

re: #116 sattv4u2

Been around for a long time

[Link: www.merriam-webster.com...]

[Link: www.barnsdle.demon.co.uk...]

From your 1st link...

The adjective minuscule is etymologically related to minus, but associations with mini- have produced the spelling variant miniscule. This variant dates to the end of the 19th century, and it now occurs commonly in published writing, but it continues to be widely regarded as an error

.

Isn't that what Charles said?

127 sattv4u2  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:08:14pm

re: #126 blueraven

From your 1st link...

.

Isn't that what Charles said?

Yes, but thanks for repeating it!

128 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:08:21pm

re: #124 Gus

He's whining about the last few. Don't really know. Apparently he now lives at LGF like the stalkers and reads every page or something.

Wait, so McCain is for him or against him? And also...

Never mind. I'm not really that interested.

129 engineer cat  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:08:51pm

i was going to piously remark that brietbart is still too freshly deceased to revile him as a lying hate monger but i stopped myself in time

130 Ben G. Hazi  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:10:42pm

re: #129 engineer cat

i was going to piously remark that brietbart is still too freshly deceased to revile him as a lying hate monger but i stopped myself in time

I see what you did there...

131 austin_blue  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:10:51pm

re: #129 engineer cat

i was going to piously remark that brietbart is still too freshly deceased to revile him as a lying hate monger but i stopped myself in time

Well, thank the gods you did!

132 makeitstop  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:12:04pm

re: #17 Charles Johnson

I believe it's on the bottom four strings. He crosses over and plays above the capo at one point.

Very neat trick, that is. I'm so stealing that.

133 sattv4u2  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:12:16pm

I wonder how much one can get for an ear in a pawn shop!! Enough to settle a debt!?!?!?

Man Allegedly Slices Another Man’s Ear Off Over Unpaid Debt

[Link: losangeles.cbslocal.com...]


/

134 blueraven  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:13:13pm

re: #127 sattv4u2

Yes, but thanks for repeating it!

The truth lies somewhere in the middle.
//

135 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:14:09pm

re: #133 sattv4u2

I wonder how much one can get for an ear in a pawn shop!! Enough to settle a debt!?!?!?

Man Allegedly Slices Another Man’s Ear Off Over Unpaid Debt

[Link: losangeles.cbslocal.com...]

/

This is what happens when people can't let go of that whole "I've got your nose!" thing that they do with toddlers.

136 Gus  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:14:34pm

Just found this gem:

Romney staff spent nearly $100,000 to hide records
12/2011

(Reuters) - Mitt Romney spent nearly $100,000 in state funds to replace computers in his office at the end of his term as governor of Massachusetts in 2007 as part of an unprecedented effort to keep his records secret, Reuters has learned.

The move during the final weeks of Romney's administration was legal but unusual for a departing governor, Massachusetts officials say.

137 Interesting Times  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:15:14pm

Speaking of the recently deceased...get the impression Jeff Sharlet (author of "The Family", which exposed the creepy Dominionist cult running way too much of America) wasn't too fond of this guy? :)

138 sattv4u2  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:15:46pm

re: #135 SanFranciscoZionist

This is what happens when people can't let go of that whole "I've got your nose!" thing that they do with toddlers.

I JUST took a mouthful of coffee when you posted that

I hope the screen survives!!

139 engineer cat  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:15:51pm

saw two EXcellent movies last night:

hunger games

agora - 2009 with rachel weisz about the persecution of Hypatia, an alexandrine philosopher of late antiquity who was persecuted by the newly triumphant christians, despite the fact that she had been the highly respected teacher of the roman prefect and the bishop of cyrene

btw rachel weisz's name is a respelling of the german word for 'white' into hungarian orthography

140 Charles Johnson  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:16:51pm
141 Charles Johnson  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:17:33pm
142 palomino  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:19:04pm

re: #123 SanFranciscoZionist

I refuse to relinquish the high ground. We CANNOT allow this to become what American politics is.

Also, it's breeding contempt for Mormons in general, not Romney in particular.

I hate to burst your bubble, but it's too late. American politics is already what you fear it will become. There's little constructive debate out there; it's been replaced primarily by hyperbole, identity politics, and contempt for the other side.

It's unrealistic to think that America can soon become united--we're the most diverse country in the world by most measures. The divisions are real, and will not be easily smoothed over. This is America's greatest challenge now. The way Obama's been treated non-stop for 5 years gives me little hope that the discourse will improve.

Do you see any signs of improvement in the discourse on the right? If not, then don't expect improvement on the left. Both sides want to win. And, even more so, both sides are angry.

143 blueraven  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:19:25pm

re: #140 Charles Johnson

What an idiot.

144 Gus  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:21:33pm

Lou Engle is closing for The Awakening 2012.

145 Gus  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:24:14pm
146 Gus  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:24:31pm
147 sattv4u2  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:25:32pm

re: #145 Gus

re: #146 Gus

Geezz ,, let the body get at least luke warm

148 Gus  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:26:10pm

re: #147 sattv4u2

re: #146 Gus

Geezz ,, let the body get at least luke warm

History doesn't change with death.

149 sattv4u2  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:27:07pm

re: #148 Gus

History doesn't change with death.

but decorum should

150 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:27:08pm

re: #33 ProGunLiberal

This cached page from the Deseret News says otherwise.

Also, two other points. One: If your side wants to do birtherism, two can play at this game. Don't want this to be used? Then don't do birtherism.

Second: Alot of us over on this side want revenge for Prop 8. And some of us even have other bones to pick.

An Eye For An Eye Making the Whole World Blind.

Not a good idea PLL. Mitt Romney is not responsible for where his grandparents lived decades before he was born. To try to pin such things on him is to pump yet more toxic sludge into the culture. Such toxic dishonesty cannot be used to build, only to destroy and its produces no small amount of collateral damage. Such dishonest things ought not to be used, at all.

151 Ben G. Hazi  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:28:38pm

re: #140 Charles Johnson

RSM, you suck at snark, so you might as well quit while you're ahead.

On second thought, you've never been ahead, only wayyy behind in an antebellum fantasy; just keep on keeping on, so we may laugh at you.

/you're as useful as tits on a boar hog

152 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:28:48pm

re: #123 SanFranciscoZionist

I refuse to relinquish the high ground. We CANNOT allow this to become what American politics is.

Also, it's breeding contempt for Mormons in general, not Romney in particular.

Quite Concur.

153 Gus  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:28:56pm

re: #149 sattv4u2

but decorum should

There's nothing disrespectful about what I posted. You have any complaints go tell Joe My God.

154 Gus  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:29:35pm
155 Ben G. Hazi  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:31:03pm

re: #147 sattv4u2

re: #146 Gus

Geezz ,, let the body get at least luke warm

While I generally subscribe to "don't speak ill of the (newly) dead", Colson was an asshole in Nixon's White House during Watergate and he was a born-again asshole until he died.

And that's all I have to say about that...for now.

156 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:31:12pm

re: #149 sattv4u2

but decorum should

Agreed. Gus, back off for now. Its really is entirely unseemly to go after someone on the they die unless they were a violent malefactor (and Colson was not violent).

157 Interesting Times  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:31:36pm

re: #153 Gus

There's nothing disrespectful about what I posted. You have any complaints go tell Joe My God.

The only thing I regret about the death of destructive, evil people is that it temporarily turns them into sympathetic figures.

158 engineer cat  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:32:37pm

re: #117 palomino

Sure it was dumb of Schweitzer to say that, but it's the inevitable outcome of Obama being attacked by gop politicans, over the last 5 years, for everything from being a Kenyan to a commie to a non-citizen to an America hater to a Muslim to a radical who hates whites. Rhetoric filled with coarse lies and racism begets more coarse rhetoric.

problem:

how to conduct a political dialogue based on logic, fact, and history when your opponent just lies, lies, stirs up hate, and lies

159 sattv4u2  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:32:46pm

re: #155 GnarlyGnomeOfGnowledge

While I subscribe to "don't speak ill of the (newly) dead", Colson was an asshole in Nixon's White House during Watergate and he was a born-again asshole until he died.

And that's all I have to say about that...for now.

looks as if your subscription expired!

160 Gus  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:32:55pm

re: #156 Dark_Falcon

Agreed. Gus, back off for now. Its really is entirely unseemly to go after someone on the they die unless they were a violent malefactor (and Colson was not violent).

Give me a break. Why don't you see the message above yours. Back off yourself.

161 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:33:40pm

re: #142 palomino

I hate to burst your bubble, but it's too late. American politics is already what you fear it will become. There's little constructive debate out there; it's been replaced primarily by hyperbole, identity politics, and contempt for the other side.

It's unrealistic to think that America can soon become united--we're the most diverse country in the world by most measures. The divisions are real, and will not be easily smoothed over. This is America's greatest challenge now. The way Obama's been treated non-stop for 5 years gives me little hope that the discourse will improve.

Do you see any signs of improvement in the discourse on the right? If not, then don't expect improvement on the left. Both sides want to win. And, even more so, both sides are angry.

I know what politics has become. I do not approve, and I believe that it can improve. If it can't, I've still got to look at myself in the mirror every morning.

Am I seriously supposed to accept that as a liberal and a Democrat, I should not speak out against religious bigotry when it's being aimed at the other guys? I should figure that reviving hundred-year-old paranoia against Mormons is just the way things go these days? What the hell am I going to do if the Republicans get it together to run a black guy a few cycles down the road? Or a Muslim?

'People are angry' is the excuse that's been made by those who've attacked Obama. I don't care how mad Brian Schweitzer is, he's out of line. Seriously, this is MITT ROMNEY, and the meanest thing he can think of to say about the man is that his father was born in a 'polygamy colony'?

162 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:33:47pm

re: #148 Gus

History doesn't change with death.

Him and Nixon are having a gay ol' time in Gehenna, I'm sure...

163 palomino  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:34:14pm

re: #150 Dark_Falcon

An Eye For An Eye Making the Whole World Blind.

Not a good idea PLL. Mitt Romney is not responsible for where his grandparents lived decades before he was born. To try to pin such things on him is to pump yet more toxic sludge into the culture. Such toxic dishonesty cannot be used to build, only to destroy and its produces no small amount of collateral damage. Such dishonest things ought not to be used, at all.

And this is exactly what you've been saying about the (far more unfair, racist, xenophobic) attacks on Obama, right? You've been saying exactly this for 5 years, ever since those shameful attacks started. Correct?

Of course Mitt's not responsible for this, same way Obama's not responsible for what someone fed him when he was 6 years old in a foreign country. Sorry, but your party's in no position to start giving lectures on what's appopriate discourse when it comes to presidents.

164 Gus  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:34:29pm

re: #162 William Barnett-Lewis

Him and Nixon are having a gay ol' time in Gehenna, I'm sure...

How dare you!

//Drops monocle.

165 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:34:34pm

re: #154 Gus

That's a severely erroneous revision, in error to the point of being blasphemy in my eyes.

All believers are equal in the sight of God. He does not give you special consideration simply based on where you are born, you are bound to the same moral code as all other Christians (or other Muslims, for those here who are Muslim).

166 sattv4u2  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:36:11pm

[Link: bostonherald.com...]

A strap-hanging MBTA heroine said she went into “She-Hulk” mode to single-handedly collar a man who exposed himself on a crowded B-Line trolley — dragging him off the train and holding him until cops arrived

I don't even want to know what she was holding onto when she dragged him off the train!!

167 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:37:05pm

re: #163 palomino

And this is exactly what you've been saying about the (far more unfair, racist, xenophobic) attacks on Obama, right? You've been saying exactly this for 5 years, ever since those shameful attacks started. Correct?

Of course Mitt's not responsible for this, same way Obama's not responsible for what someone fed him when he was 6 years old in a foreign country. Sorry, but your party's in no position to start giving lectures on what's appopriate discourse when it comes to presidents.

The Truth? It was not until December of 2008 that I decided that Birtherism should be accorded no respect. Once I did so, treated as the trashy attack it is and having called people out for it consistently since 2009.

168 engineer cat  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:37:18pm

re: #150 Dark_Falcon

An Eye For An Eye Making the Whole World Blind.

Not a good idea PLL. Mitt Romney is not responsible for where his grandparents lived decades before he was born. To try to pin such things on him is to pump yet more toxic sludge into the culture. Such toxic dishonesty cannot be used to build, only to destroy and its produces no small amount of collateral damage. Such dishonest things ought not to be used, at all.

perhaps you could do something to convince the members of your own party to observe your sincere wishes for a clean and honest political dialogue

169 Kragar  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:37:39pm

Lou Engle, like most other Evangelicals, is a disgusting hypocrite who confuses self righteous egomania with piety.

170 sattv4u2  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:38:48pm

re: #161 SanFranciscoZionist

the meanest thing he can think of the say about the man is that his father was born in a 'polygamy colony'?

Geeez i'm getting tired

I 1st read that as PYGMY colony!!!

I was going to say ,,, Romney's pretty tall coming from a family of pygmys

171 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:39:50pm

re: #165 Dark_Falcon

That's a severely erroneous revision, in error to the point of being blasphemy in my eyes.

All believers are equal in the sight of God. He does not give you special consideration simply based on where you are born, you are bound to the same moral code as all other Christians (or other Muslims, for those here who are Muslim).

DAMN SKIPPY. (Jews too.)

As we always remind the kids at assemblies at the Catholic school's I've taught at, "We pray as Jesus taught us," when we pray the Lord's Prayer.

That is why it is called "The Lord's Prayer".

I do not think that Lou Engle is a person of sufficient standing to go ahead and revise the words that Jesus taught to his followers.

172 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:40:51pm

re: #170 sattv4u2

the meanest thing he can think of the say about the man is that his father was born in a 'polygamy colony'?

Geeez i'm getting tired

I 1st read that as PYGMY colony!!!

I was going to say ,,, Romney's pretty tall coming from a family of pygmys

Although I would be extremely interested to learn more about the pygmy colony...what was a colony of pygmies doing in Mexico, anyway?

173 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:41:16pm

re: #166 sattv4u2

[Link: bostonherald.com...]

A strap-hanging MBTA heroine said she went into “She-Hulk” mode to single-handedly collar a man who exposed himself on a crowded B-Line trolley — dragging him off the train and holding him until cops arrived

I don't even want to know what she was holding onto when she dragged him off the train!!

Decisiveness of that sort is glorious.

174 sattv4u2  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:42:16pm

re: #172 SanFranciscoZionist

Although I would be extremely interested to learn more about the pygmy colony...what was a colony of pygmies doing in Mexico, anyway?

Looking for their rattlesnakes??

[Link: www.mexicanfauna.com...]

175 engineer cat  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:43:40pm

re: #172 SanFranciscoZionist

Although I would be extremely interested to learn more about the pygmy colony...what was a colony of pygmies doing in Mexico, anyway?

training to save the world from non traditional marriage and dog sandwiches

176 Gus  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:44:29pm

Disrespecting the dead -- more specifically a death -- is like saying "good I'm glad he's dead" or "it's about time he died." Others might say "I hope he suffered in his death." That's disrespecting the dead. Not pointing out a history such as one would find in an obituary. In this case and as an example the NY Times obituary for Colson:

Mr. Colson and his colleagues “started vying for favor on Nixon’s dark side,” said Bryce Harlow, a former counselor to the president, in an oral history.

“Colson started talking about trampling his grandmother’s grave for Nixon and showing he was as mean as they come.”

As the president’s re-election campaign geared up in 1971, “everybody went macho,” Mr. Harlow said. “It was the ‘in’ thing to swagger and threaten.”

177 palomino  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:45:21pm

Have you got a specific date in mind when it's acceptable to criticize Cre: #161 SanFranciscoZionist

I know what politics has become. I do not approve, and I believe that it can improve. If it can't, I've still got to look at myself in the mirror every morning.

Am I seriously supposed to accept that as a liberal and a Democrat, I should not speak out against religious bigotry when it's being aimed at the other guys? I should figure that reviving hundred-year-old paranoia against Mormons is just the way things go these days? What the hell am I going to do if the Republicans get it together to run a black guy a few cycles down the road? Or a Muslim? I'm not

'People are angry' is the excuse that's been made by those who've attacked Obama. I don't care how mad Brian Schweitzer is, he's out of line. Seriously, this is MITT ROMNEY, and the meanest thing he can think of the say about the man is that his father was born in a 'polygamy colony'?

I'm talking about a larger cultural trend. Most Americans would probably see WWII as the last time the nation was truly united for any length of time. Back then the population of the US was one-third what it is today. The white and Christian populations were much larger proportionally. And most minorities, along with gays and women, had little voice in the public debate. The facade of unity could be maintained.

But now the toothpaste is out of the tube, and minorities will no longer shut up and cower in fear. Thus, the conservative white backlash that began in the 50s and has been exemplified most clearly by the gop's disgusting southern strategy. You say you're hopeful that things can improve.

Based on the last 50 years, why do you believe that? The US is currently more fractured along religious, social, ethnic, racial lines than at most points in its history. And the imminent demographic changes don't bode well in terms of the right wanting to hold hands with everyone and rejoice in ALL of us being real Americans.

178 palomino  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:47:16pm

re: #167 Dark_Falcon

The Truth? It was not until December of 2008 that I decided that Birtherism should be accorded no respect. Once I did so, treated as the trashy attack it is and having called people out for it consistently since 2009.

So even a rational guy like you bought into the bullshit for a year or two. Now imagine all the other people out there, right and left, who are less rational. Do you think there's much chance they'll join in a coordinated effort to create more constructive debate?

179 sattv4u2  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:48:11pm

re: #177 palomino

Have you got a specific date in mind when it's acceptable to criticize

Yes. Later!
/ (half)

Don't know if it still applies, but we used to have a '24 hour rule" around here for stories that didn't as of yet have all the details of, keeping us from jumping to conclusions. I would think that at least that long after someones death would be smart

180 wrenchwench  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:50:24pm

re: #177 palomino

re: #161 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm talking about a larger cultural trend. Most Americans would probably see WWII as the last time the nation was truly united for any length of time. Back then the population of the US was one-third what it is today. The white and Christian populations were much larger proportionally. And most minorities, along with gays and women, had little voice in the public debate. The facade of unity could be maintained.

But now the toothpaste is out of the tube, and minorities will no longer shut up and cower in fear. Thus, the conservative white backlash that began in the 50s and has been exemplified most clearly by the gop's disgusting southern strategy. You say you're hopeful that things can improve.

Based on the last 50 years, why do you believe that? The US is currently more fractured along religious, social, ethnic, racial lines than at most points in its history. And the imminent demographic changes don't bode well in terms of the right wanting to hold hands with everyone and rejoice in ALL of us being real Americans.

You've got evidence of improvement and seeds for more of it right there in your comment. I've been sentient for the last 50 years, and I've seen improvement. I don't expect much improvement in the short term for the GOP, but, as hinted at in your last paragraph, eventually they will improve or die.

181 Obdicut  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:50:29pm

re: #179 sattv4u2

What do the two things have to do with each other?

182 sattv4u2  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:50:51pm

re: #179 sattv4u2

I would think that at least that long after someones death would be smart
With the obvious exception of a Bin Laden, or a Kim Jong Il, etc

183 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:51:03pm

re: #176 Gus

Disrespecting the dead -- more specifically a death -- is like saying "good I'm glad he's dead" or "it's about time he died." Others might say "I hope he suffered in his death." That's disrespecting the dead. Not pointing out a history such as one would find in an obituary. In this case and as an example the NY Times obituary for Colson:

How it's 'supposed' to be done...

184 allegro  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:51:33pm

re: #179 sattv4u2

Have you got a specific date in mind when it's acceptable to criticize

Yes. Later!
/ (half)

Don't know if it still applies, but we used to have a '24 hour rule" around here for stories that didn't as of yet have all the details of, keeping us from jumping to conclusions. I would think that at least that long after someones death would be smart

I dunno. Coulson worked real hard at being an asshole for years and years. Calling him one isn't an insult. It's a fact. That he's dead, doesn't change it.

185 sattv4u2  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:52:20pm

re: #181 Obdicut

What do the two things have to do with each other?

They both have words and punctuation marks

186 Gus  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:52:38pm

re: #183 Aye Pod

How it's 'supposed' to be done...

[Embedded content]

Ha! Good one.

187 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:52:56pm

re: #177 palomino

Have you got a specific date in mind when it's acceptable to criticize Cre: #161 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm talking about a larger cultural trend. Most Americans would probably see WWII as the last time the nation was truly united for any length of time. Back then the population of the US was one-third what it is today. The white and Christian populations were much larger proportionally. And most minorities, along with gays and women, had little voice in the public debate. The facade of unity could be maintained.

But now the toothpaste is out of the tube, and minorities will no longer shut up and cower in fear. Thus, the conservative white backlash that began in the 50s and has been exemplified most clearly by the gop's disgusting southern strategy. You say you're hopeful that things can improve.

Based on the last 50 years, why do you believe that? The US is currently more fractured along religious, social, ethnic, racial lines than at most points in its history. And the imminent demographic changes don't bode well in terms of the right wanting to hold hands with everyone and rejoice in ALL of us being real Americans.

Because if things aren't going to improve then the appropriate actions to take start becoming ugly. If peace across such lines is not possible, it would be wiser to stop trying to reach across them entirely, preferring instead to prepare for the fighting to come.

188 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:53:17pm

re: #177 palomino

Have you got a specific date in mind when it's acceptable to criticize Cre: #161 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm talking about a larger cultural trend. Most Americans would probably see WWII as the last time the nation was truly united for any length of time. Back then the population of the US was one-third what it is today. The white and Christian populations were much larger proportionally. And most minorities, along with gays and women, had little voice in the public debate. The facade of unity could be maintained.

But now the toothpaste is out of the tube, and minorities will no longer shut up and cower in fear. Thus, the conservative white backlash that began in the 50s and has been exemplified most clearly by the gop's disgusting southern strategy. You say you're hopeful that things can improve.

Based on the last 50 years, why do you believe that? The US is currently more fractured along religious, social, ethnic, racial lines than at most points in its history. And the imminent demographic changes don't bode well in terms of the right wanting to hold hands with everyone and rejoice in ALL of us being real Americans.

Ignore the 'things can improve' part. Maybe things can't improve. Maybe the country is hopelessly divided, the slimy politics of the Southern Strategy will end us all, and the American experiment is over. We may end up breaking into six squabbling balkanized chunks and building walls between them. It could happen.

I still plan to criticize religious bigotry, disingenous othering, and general dumbass behavior as I see it.

Schweitzer is playing the same damn game Huckabee played when he commented 'offhand' that he thought Mormons believed that Jesus and Satan were brothers. Why should I give him a pass on that? Because it might scare some voters off Romney?

I'm sure Harry Reid has ancestors who were polygamists. Would it have been fair game for Sharron Angle to target him for that? (Not 'would she have, if she thought it would help'. She would have. But we would have called her out for it.)

189 palomino  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:53:31pm

re: #149 sattv4u2

but decorum should

Have you got a specific date in mind when it's acceptable to criticize Colson for being a criminal, fraud and homophobic religious fanatic? How long do we have to wait so that you won't get the vapors at the thought of an 80-year old slimeball being attacked?

190 sattv4u2  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:54:12pm

re: #189 palomino

Have you got a specific date in mind when it's acceptable to criticize Colson for being a criminal, fraud and homophobic religious fanatic? How long do we have to wait so that you won't get the vapors at the thought of an 80-year old slimeball being attacked?

Nope

carry on

191 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:55:05pm

re: #182 sattv4u2

I would think that at least that long after someones death would be smart
With the obvious exception of a Bin Laden, or a Kim Jong Il, etc

There are people whose impact on the world is so big, and so vile, that the only possible response to their death is gladness and relief...well, maybe not the only possible, but it's a reasonable response.

For more minor malefactors, I don't ask that they be whitewashed in death, but I generally refrain from hopping and skipping. Personal enemies also fall into this category.

It's got to do with proportion, more than anything.

192 Killgore Trout  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:55:48pm

re: #179 sattv4u2

Have you got a specific date in mind when it's acceptable to criticize

Yes. Later!
/ (half)

Don't know if it still applies, but we used to have a '24 hour rule" around here for stories that didn't as of yet have all the details of, keeping us from jumping to conclusions. I would think that at least that long after someones death would be smart

I see there's a fresh conservative grave to dance on today. Oh, joy!
/

193 sattv4u2  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:55:49pm

re: #191 SanFranciscoZionist

There are people whose impact on the world is so big, and so vile, that the only possible response to their death is gladness and relief...well, maybe not the only possible, but it's a reasonable response.

For more minor malefactors, I don't ask that they be whitewashed in death, but I generally refrain from hopping and skipping. Personal enemies also fall into this category.

It's got to do with proportion, more than anything.

as they say here

THIS

194 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:56:17pm

re: #178 palomino

So even a rational guy like you bought into the bullshit for a year or two. Now imagine all the other people out there, right and left, who are less rational. Do you think there's much chance they'll join in a coordinated effort to create more constructive debate?

That's not the point. The point is ultimately The O'Reilly Rule:

You cannot justify bad behavior by pointing to other bad behavior.

The answer to attacks on Barack Obama's ancestry is not a attack on Mitt Romney's ancestry.

195 engineer cat  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:56:42pm

if the bible is to be believed, many of us have ancestors who practiced polygamy, slavery, and animal sacrifice

196 Kragar  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:56:53pm

The worst thing you can do to the people who wish they shaped the world is ignore them, so I will do so.

197 Gus  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:57:01pm

re: #191 SanFranciscoZionist

There are people whose impact on the world is so big, and so vile, that the only possible response to their death is gladness and relief...well, maybe not the only possible, but it's a reasonable response.

For more minor malefactors, I don't ask that they be whitewashed in death, but I generally refrain from hopping and skipping. Personal enemies also fall into this category.

It's got to do with proportion, more than anything.

As do I.

198 sattv4u2  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:57:27pm

re: #192 Killgore Trout

I see there's a fresh conservative grave to dance on today. Oh, joy!
/

GRAVE!?!?

Hell,,, the bodies not even lukewarm yet!!

199 sattv4u2  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:58:15pm

re: #195 engineer cat

if the bible is to be believed, many of us have ancestors who practiced polygamy, slavery, and animal sacrifice

I do that on a nightly basis

Tonight,,, chicken

200 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:58:36pm

re: #191 SanFranciscoZionist

For more minor malefactors, I don't ask that they be whitewashed in death, but I generally refrain from hopping and skipping.

Sure, but while I see people 'not whitewashing' here, I don't see anyone 'hopping and skipping'.

201 Killgore Trout  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:58:37pm

re: #198 sattv4u2

GRAVE!?!?

Hell,,, the bodies not even lukewarm yet!!

Move the party to the morgue! Lot's of room for beer storage there and the band will really enjoy the acoustics.

202 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:58:40pm

re: #195 engineer cat

if the bible is to be believed, many of us have ancestors who practiced polygamy, slavery, and animal sacrifice

If all archaelogical and text evidence is to be believed, all of us have ancestors who did at least a couple of those. Maybe all three at the same time.

As I'm fond of saying, when folks do the "Biblical marriage is between one man and one woman" shtick, "My ancestor Yaakov, and his wife Rakhel, and his wife Leah, and his concubine Bilhah, and his concubine Zilpah and their twelve sons and one daughter would all be very, very surprised to hear that."

203 sattv4u2  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:59:50pm

re: #192 Killgore Trout

I'm SURE that I updinged this comment, but it shows 0 Karma

Odd !!!

//

204 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:59:56pm

re: #200 Aye Pod

Sure, but while I see people 'not whitewashing' here, I don't see anyone 'hopping and skipping'.

Nor I, but then again, I'm not really following this discussion. We've moved on from Breitbart to some newly dead person.

205 engineer cat  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 2:59:56pm

fall campaign preview:

Ha Ha Ha

well, i think the president is a nice guy but i'm going to tell some appalling lies about him now

Ha Ha Ha

206 austin_blue  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:00:37pm

Caps are up on the Bruins 3 wins to 2 after 4-3 victory.

Oh, and Real Madrid beat Barca 2-1.

207 dragonfire1981  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:00:39pm

re: #170 sattv4u2

the meanest thing he can think of the say about the man is that his father was born in a 'polygamy colony'?

Geeez i'm getting tired

I 1st read that as PYGMY colony!!!

I was going to say ,,, Romney's pretty tall coming from a family of pygmys

That's why he likes it where he is now...the people are the right height.

208 sattv4u2  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:00:43pm

re: #200 Aye Pod

Sure, but while I see people 'not whitewashing' here, I don't see anyone 'hopping and skipping'.

i'm so old, last time I hopped and skipped I broke a hip!

209 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:01:26pm

re: #201 Killgore Trout

Move the party to the morgue! Lot's of room for beer storage there and the band will really enjoy the acoustics.

Blatantly lying about what is going on in the thread is pretty lame.

210 sattv4u2  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:01:29pm

re: #206 austin_blue

Caps are up on the Bruins 3 wins to 2 after 4-3 victory.

Oh, and Real Madrid beat Barca 2-1.

:(

But all 5 games have been great

211 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:01:33pm

re: #188 SanFranciscoZionist

I'd honestly make the point that the 'Southern Strategy' really was no more than the migration of of various types of Social Conservatives in the former Confederate States from the Democrats to the Republicans. Those seeking to criticize Nixon for encouraging such a move must ask what else Nixon could have done; Without those additional voters the GOP would have been in long-term minority status. Moreover, those Southern SoCons were not going to simply go away; If they had not stayed within the two party system
they might well have formed a third, regional party and then deadlock might have seting even stronger.

212 Gus  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:01:42pm
213 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:02:04pm

re: #205 engineer cat

fall campaign preview:

Ha Ha Ha

well, i think the president is a nice guy but i'm going to tell some appalling lies about him now

Ha Ha Ha

This campaign is going to get wild.

Like that party in "No Lesser Plea", where they get drunk at the DAs office after hours, take the guns out of the evidence lockers, and play cops and robbers with them.

214 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:02:25pm

re: #207 dragonfire1981

That's why he likes it where he is now...the people are the right height.

Please accept this Internet.

215 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:03:38pm

re: #212 Gus

Gus, how could you? Don't you know about the 24 hour moratorium on facts following the demise of a wingnut?/

216 sattv4u2  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:03:40pm

re: #214 SanFranciscoZionist

Please accept this Internet.

the short version though, right?

217 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:03:46pm

re: #211 Dark_Falcon

I'd honestly make the point that the 'Southern Strategy' really was no more than the migration of of various types of Social Conservatives in the former Confederate States from the Democrats to the Republicans. Those seeking to criticize Nixon for encouraging such a move must ask what else Nixon could have done; Without those additional voters the GOP would have been in long-term minority status. Moreover, those Southern SoCons were not going to simply go away; If they had not stayed within the two party system
they might well have formed a third, regional party and then deadlock might have seting even stronger.

Well, since I've made it clear that I would rather be right than have Barack Obama be president, I suppose it's pretty clear what I think that Nixon should have done...

Ugly politics makes perfect sense. People do ugly politics to gain advantage.

It doesn't make it right.

218 Gus  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:04:07pm

re: #215 Aye Pod

Gus, how could you? Don't you know about the 24 hour moratorium on facts following the demise of a wingnut?/

I'm just asking questions and posting Tweets.

//

219 palomino  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:04:20pm

re: #188 SanFranciscoZionist

Ignore the 'things can improve' part. Maybe things can't improve. Maybe the country is hopelessly divided, the slimy politics of the Southern Strategy will end us all, and the American experiment is over. We may end up breaking into six squabbling balkanized chunks and building walls between them. It could happen.

I still plan to criticize religious bigotry, disingenous othering, and general dumbass behavior as I see it.

Schweitzer is playing the same damn game Huckabee played when he commented 'offhand' that he thought Mormons believed that Jesus and Satan were brothers. Why should I give him a pass on that? Because it might scare some voters off Romney?

I'm sure Harry Reid has ancestors who were polygamists. Would it have been fair game for Sharron Angle to target him for that? (Not 'would she have, if she thought it would help'. She would have. But we would have called her out for it.)

Of course you're right to criticize bigotry no matter where it comes from. But the last 5 years (Obama's 3 years in office plus the primaries before that) have proven that the country isn't close to fully ready to move beyond the racism, xenophobia and religious bigotry that we like to pretend we've transcended.

America's biggest challenge by far in the coming decades is how we respond to the stresses put on the great American experiment. With the election of Obama, I was optimistic we were moving in the right direction. It's been replaced by pessimism at the racially motivated hysteria Obama has elicited, even though he rarely mentions race. I see no reason to think my side will be any more accomodating to Romney, if elected. The left is understandably furious over the contempt shown for Obama on the right. It would be great if more on the left had your sense of a moral high ground, but my suspicion is that Dems--if Romney wins--won't forget and will be looking for payback, which is always a bitch and will simply lead to more obstructionism. More so than at any time since the Civil War, our country has become nearly ungovernable.

220 Ben G. Hazi  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:04:38pm

re: #192 Killgore Trout

I see there's a fresh conservative grave to dance on today. Oh, joy!
/

re: #198 sattv4u2

GRAVE!?!?

Hell,,, the bodies not even lukewarm yet!!

Oh, come off it...do you see anyone here reveling in glee that Chuck Colson has shuffled off his mortal coil? All me and Gus said was that Colson was one of the more detestable assholes involved with Watergate and that his track record since being born-again in regards to things he's said hasn't been much better. I won't say "I'm glad he's dead", but he was an asshole while in the Nixon White House and long afterward.

Is there anything factually wrong with this?

221 sattv4u2  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:04:47pm

re: #215 Aye Pod

Gus, how could you? Don't you know about the 24 hour moratorium on facts following the demise of a wingnut?/

Blatantly lying about what is going on in the thread is pretty lame.

(hmmm,, seems I've heard that before)

222 engineer cat  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:05:12pm

re: #211 Dark_Falcon

I'd honestly make the point that the 'Southern Strategy' really was no more than the migration of of various types of Social Conservatives in the former Confederate States from the Democrats to the Republicans. Those seeking to criticize Nixon for encouraging such a move must ask what else Nixon could have done; Without those additional voters the GOP would have been in long-term minority status. Moreover, those Southern SoCons were not going to simply go away; If they had not stayed within the two party system
they might well have formed a third, regional party and then deadlock might have seting even stronger.

hmmm i wonder what respectable philosophical position it was that was so compelling to 'southern conservative democrats' that it caused them to switch party affiliation en masse by the tens of millions between 1964 and 1980... thinking...

223 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:05:43pm

re: #82 SanFranciscoZionist

I was going to say I was already taken, but heck, we're talking about polygamy. Why should polyandry not be OK?

Well, Joseph Smith did practice that...

224 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:06:09pm

re: #221 sattv4u2

Blatantly lying about what is going on in the thread is pretty lame.

(hmmm,, seems I've heard that before)

By all means elaborate.

225 sattv4u2  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:06:47pm

re: #224 Aye Pod

By all means elaborate.

Funny, I was going to ask you to do the same re: 209!

226 sattv4u2  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:08:10pm

re: #220 GnarlyGnomeOfGnowledge

Is there anything factually wrong with this?

Not a thing
As stated, carry on

227 Gus  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:09:28pm

The jam festival must have just picked the winners.

//

228 Lidane  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:10:28pm

re: #222 engineer cat

hmmm i wonder what respectable philosophical position it was that was so compelling to 'southern conservative democrats' that it caused them to switch party affiliation en masse by the tens of millions between 1964 and 1980... thinking...

Exactly.

229 sattv4u2  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:10:43pm

re: #227 Gus

The jam festival must have just picked the winners.

//

I do hope boysenberry won!

230 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:11:05pm

re: #219 palomino

Of course you're right to criticize bigotry no matter where it comes from. But the last 5 years (Obama's 3 years in office plus the primaries before that) have proven that the country isn't close to fully ready to move beyond the racism, xenophobia and religious bigotry that we like to pretend we've transcended.

America's biggest challenge by far in the coming decades is how we respond to the stresses put on the great American experiment. With the election of Obama, I was optimistic we were moving in the right direction. It's been replaced by pessimism at the racially motivated hysteria Obama has elicited, even though he rarely mentions race. I see no reason to think my side will be any more accomodating to Romney, if elected. The left is understandably furious over the contempt shown for Obama on the right. It would be great if more on the left had your sense of a moral high ground, but my suspicion is that Dems--if Romney wins--won't forget and will be looking for payback, which is always a bitch and will simply lead to more obstructionism. More so than at any time since the Civil War, our country has become nearly ungovernable.

I hear things were difficult in the 1960s as well.

They got better, in many ways.

And yes, there is going to be a quest for payback. There has been for several cycles now. The whole time conservatives were complaining that Bush was being unfairly criticized, worse than any president ever had been, I was thinking "Hah. You don't REMEMBER what you did to Bill Clinton?" And now we have Obama. (Frankly, I am not sure that what's hitting Obama is substantially worse than what was leveled at Bill Clinton, except it is on the Internet. I'm not sure how to compare the two with a fair rubric. I'm waiting on the impeachment charges.) It's ugly, and escalating. I hope it does not end with something like the Kennedy assassination. I know that many of my students' grandparents are entirely convinced it will.

As for the next episode, I think we have to wait to 2016, because I don't think Romney has more than a slim outside chance.

231 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:11:32pm

re: #223 Capacious Casserole of Canine

Well, Joseph Smith did practice that...

He did?

(Missing the joke?)

232 palomino  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:11:55pm

re: #179 sattv4u2

Have you got a specific date in mind when it's acceptable to criticize

Yes. Later!
/ (half)

Don't know if it still applies, but we used to have a '24 hour rule" around here for stories that didn't as of yet have all the details of, keeping us from jumping to conclusions. I would think that at least that long after someones death would be smart

What do we not "have all the details of"?

Seems pretty straightforward. An old man died. That old man happened to be a convicted criminal, rabid homophobe and the most unsavory sort of political animal. This isn't a case with any unknown elements we need to wait for...unless you think, hold on, that the same folks who assassinated Breitbart finally got to Colson as well. It was MURDER!

233 sattv4u2  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:13:12pm

re: #232 palomino

waytomissthepoint

but you knew that, didnja

234 palomino  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:13:58pm

re: #211 Dark_Falcon

I'd honestly make the point that the 'Southern Strategy' really was no more than the migration of of various types of Social Conservatives in the former Confederate States from the Democrats to the Republicans. Those seeking to criticize Nixon for encouraging such a move must ask what else Nixon could have done; Without those additional voters the GOP would have been in long-term minority status. Moreover, those Southern SoCons were not going to simply go away; If they had not stayed within the two party system
they might well have formed a third, regional party and then deadlock might have seting even stronger.

Really? So Nixon's excuse is, "I had to pursue an aggressively racist strategy; otherwise I might have lost the election." True profile in courage.

235 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:14:05pm

re: #225 sattv4u2

Funny, I was going to ask you to do the same re: 209!

Um obviously enough, I was referring to what I quoted in the same post, - the suggestion that people were 'partying' over Colson's death. Now, your turn.

236 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:14:42pm

re: #219 palomino

Of course you're right to criticize bigotry no matter where it comes from. But the last 5 years (Obama's 3 years in office plus the primaries before that) have proven that the country isn't close to fully ready to move beyond the racism, xenophobia and religious bigotry that we like to pretend we've transcended.

America's biggest challenge by far in the coming decades is how we respond to the stresses put on the great American experiment. With the election of Obama, I was optimistic we were moving in the right direction. It's been replaced by pessimism at the racially motivated hysteria Obama has elicited, even though he rarely mentions race. I see no reason to think my side will be any more accomodating to Romney, if elected. The left is understandably furious over the contempt shown for Obama on the right. It would be great if more on the left had your sense of a moral high ground, but my suspicion is that Dems--if Romney wins--won't forget and will be looking for payback, which is always a bitch and will simply lead to more obstructionism. More so than at any time since the Civil War, our country has become nearly ungovernable.

This I agree with.

237 Gus  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:14:50pm

re: #235 Aye Pod

Um obviously enough, I was referring to what I quoted in the same post, - the suggestion that people were 'partying' over this Colson's death. Now, your turn.

Yeah, but KT was only joking.

//

238 Lidane  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:16:44pm

re: #230 SanFranciscoZionist

Frankly, I am not sure that what's hitting Obama is substantially worse than what was leveled at Bill Clinton, except it is on the Internet. I'm not sure how to compare the two with a fair rubric. I'm waiting on the impeachment charges.

It's the same hysterics that were thrown at Clinton but on steroids due to the Internet, and with an added racist component that shows that a significant percentage of this country flipped their shit when a black man won the keys to the White House.

As for the next episode, I think we have to wait to 2016, because I don't think Romney has more than a slim outside chance.

He's got a chance. Anything can happen between now and November, after all. Still, I think the GOP is currently in the same place that the Dems were in 2004 -- running an unpopular, unlikable nominee while saddled with a party base that's driven more by anger than any reasonable ideas.

239 palomino  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:19:44pm

re: #194 Dark_Falcon

That's not the point. The point is ultimately The O'Reilly Rule:

You cannot justify bad behavior by pointing to other bad behavior.

The answer to attacks on Barack Obama's ancestry is not a attack on Mitt Romney's ancestry.

Is that BILL O'Reilly's rule? If so the irony is thick enough to cut with a dull shoe.

Uhh, anyway I'm not trying to excuse Schweitzer (as you do with Nixon and his poisonous southern strategy). Rather I'm saying that this is all an inevitable outgrowth of an America changing far faster than ever before--way too fast for many people to accept. And that Republicans getting their panties in a twist over Gov. Schweitzer might want to look at their own house first...from the homophobia and racism of Gingrich, Bachmann, Santorum to the McCarthyesque charges of Allen West.

240 sattv4u2  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:20:47pm

re: #235 Aye Pod

Um obviously enough, I was referring to what I quoted in the same post, - the suggestion that people were 'partying' over this Colson's death. Now, your turn.

Did you purposely miss the "/" at the end of 192 or was it an honest oversight?

Now, your turn

(do we really have to say "now your turn" after each post waiting for the other of us to respond??)

241 engineer cat  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:21:02pm

what was leveled at Bill Clinton

i remember being in CA's central valley in the 90s and wandering into one of those convenience stores that are attached to gas stations these days and encountering a large and varied display of 'novelty' items aimed exclusively at portraying then president clinton as a fat, lewd boob with a belly hanging out of his shirt and a large bulbous red nose

Ha Ha Ha.

ever since then i have no patience with anybody complaining about anything democrats have to say about republicans

242 Ben G. Hazi  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:21:50pm

re: #240 sattv4u2

Did you purposely miss the "/" at the end of 192 or was it an honest oversight?

Now, your turn

(do we really have to say "now your turn" after each post waiting for the other of us to respond??)

It's like playing Monopoly...

/can I haz $200 for passing Go?

243 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:21:55pm

re: #234 palomino

Really? So Nixon's excuse is, "I had to pursue an aggressively racist strategy; otherwise I might have lost the election." True profile in courage.

That's not an excuse, it's an explanation. In order to be president a politician must assemble a coalition that can win a majority of the Electoral College, and absent the Southern Strategy Nixon saw no way to do this. He believed that given that the Democrats were starting to be influenced by the Far Left (a situation that would be far more advanced by 1972), allowing them to hold the presidency would be a disaster. He felt he was needed and so used the means at hand to secure a majority.

Again, I am explaining, not agreeing with the rationale articulated above.

244 palomino  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:22:03pm

re: #187 Dark_Falcon

Because if things aren't going to improve then the appropriate actions to take start becoming ugly. If peace across such lines is not possible, it would be wiser to stop trying to reach across them entirely, preferring instead to prepare for the fighting to come.

I couldn't agree more. Lincoln should have let the south secede and just said, "Good riddance."

245 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:22:50pm

re: #237 Gus

Yeah, but KT was only joking.

//

Lol you called it.

246 sattv4u2  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:22:53pm

Chicago White Sox pitcher on the verge of a perfect game

247 sattv4u2  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:23:19pm

re: #242 GnarlyGnomeOfGnowledge

It's like playing Monopoly...

I call TOP HAT!!

248 engineer cat  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:23:38pm

Far Left

nebulous at best

249 palomino  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:24:03pm

re: #217 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, since I've made it clear that I would rather be right than have Barack Obama be president, I suppose it's pretty clear what I think that Nixon should have done...

Ugly politics makes perfect sense. People do ugly politics to gain advantage.

It doesn't make it right.

But what makes you think Romney will not stoop as far or farther than Obama in this campaign? Romney's already accused Obama of not loving or understanding America. You don't need perfect hearing to detect that dog whistle.

250 Gus  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:25:25pm

re: #245 Aye Pod

Lol you called it.

Psst. Don't tell anyone. But here's three pages worth.

251 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:26:20pm

re: #244 palomino

I couldn't agree more. Lincoln should have let the south secede and just said, "Good riddance."

He felt that doing such would be the death knell of America, as he saw America's survival requiring the Union to be perpetual.

252 sattv4u2  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:26:40pm

PERFECT GAME!

No hits ,, no walks

congrats ,,,, only the 21st time in MLB history

253 engineer cat  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:28:00pm

re: #243 Dark_Falcon

That's not an excuse, it's an explanation. In order to be president a politician must assemble a coalition that can win a majority of the Electoral College, and absent the Southern Strategy Nixon saw no way to do this. He believed that given that the Democrats were starting to be influenced by the Far Left (a situation that would be far more advanced by 1972), allowing them to hold the presidency would be a disaster. He felt he was needed and so used the means at hand to secure a majority.

Again, I am explaining, not agreeing with the rationale articulated above.

i appreciate your being honest about this but why would anybody continue to be a member of a party that had to base its survival on such a thing?

254 Lidane  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:28:11pm

re: #252 sattv4u2

That is awesome.

I don't watch baseball as much as I used to back when I lived in Houston, but it's always cool when someone throws a perfect game. Amazing.

255 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:29:01pm

re: #249 palomino

But what makes you think Romney will not stoop as far or farther than Obama in this campaign? Romney's already accused Obama of not loving or understanding America. You don't need perfect hearing to detect that dog whistle.

I deny that is a dog whistle. It has been used often enough against native born politicians for long enough to not qualify. May be if Mitt himself was a racist it would be different, but he's not.

256 Lidane  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:30:26pm

re: #255 Dark_Falcon

I deny that is a dog whistle. It has been used often enough against native born politicians for long enough to not qualify. May be if Mitt himself was a racist it would be different, but he's not.

Explain the phrasing, please?

257 engineer cat  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:30:52pm

re: #255 Dark_Falcon

I deny that is a dog whistle. It has been used often enough against native born politicians for long enough to not qualify. May be if Mitt himself was a racist it would be different, but he's not.

saying that a white person likes watermelon is not the same as saying that a black person likes watermelon

258 sattv4u2  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:31:48pm

re: #254 Lidane

That is awesome.

I don't watch baseball as much as I used to back when I lived in Houston, but it's always cool when someone throws a perfect game. Amazing.

I've never heard/ seen this guy before (Phil Humber) but he was dialed in today

259 Lidane  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:34:17pm

re: #258 sattv4u2

I've never heard/ seen this guy before (Phil Humber) but he was dialed in today

I don't know him either. Haven't actively followed baseball in ages. That's just cool, though. It's like a total Zen experience.

260 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:35:10pm

re: #240 sattv4u2

Did you purposely miss the "/" at the end of 192 or was it an honest oversight?

Now, your turn

(do we really have to say "now your turn" after each post waiting for the other of us to respond??)

When he updings you for complaining about people criticising him while he's not long dead it's pretty clear he's joining in with this gripe, not mocking it. Why do you have to be so disingenuous? It really doesn't fool anyone.

261 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:35:22pm

re: #253 engineer cat

i appreciate your being honest about this but why would anybody continue to be a member of a party that had to base its survival on such a thing?

Because for a long time afterward the alternative was worse. The Democrats had largely lost their willingness to confront the spread of Communism by the 1970's, yet Communism advanced. For a white Northerner such as my father in 1980, Communism was a bigger threat than racism was, and that warranted Northern Republicans turning a blind eye during the remainder of the Cold War*. The phrase 'lesser of two evils' has purchase here.

*: There were also economic matters in which non-Southern Republicans found the Democrats in grave error, but I omitted these in the interests of brevity.

262 sattv4u2  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:36:23pm

re: #260 Aye Pod

When he updings you for complaining about people criticising him while he's not long dead it's pretty clear he's joining in with this gripe, not mocking it. Why do you have to be so disingenuous? It really doesn't fool anyone.

oh darn it

Lets try this

pull my finger!

263 allegro  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:37:09pm

re: #249 palomino

But what makes you think Romney will not stoop as far or farther than Obama in this campaign? Romney's already accused Obama of not loving or understanding America. You don't need perfect hearing to detect that dog whistle.

Obama has no need to stoop. All he needs to do is point.

264 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:38:30pm

re: #256 Lidane

Explain the phrasing, please?

Bad choice. Should read "politicians whose native birth had not been questioned". This in no way should be read to imply that the questioning of Barack Obama's place of birth was anything other than bad faith questioning.

265 palomino  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:40:18pm

re: #230 SanFranciscoZionist

I hear things were difficult in the 1960s as well.

They got better, in many ways.

And yes, there is going to be a quest for payback. There has been for several cycles now. The whole time conservatives were complaining that Bush was being unfairly criticized, worse than any president ever had been, I was thinking "Hah. You don't REMEMBER what you did to Bill Clinton?" And now we have Obama. (Frankly, I am not sure that what's hitting Obama is substantially worse than what was leveled at Bill Clinton, except it is on the Internet. I'm not sure how to compare the two with a fair rubric. I'm waiting on the impeachment charges.) It's ugly, and escalating. I hope it does not end with something like the Kennedy assassination. I know that many of my students' grandparents are entirely convinced it will.

As for the next episode, I think we have to wait to 2016, because I don't think Romney has more than a slim outside chance.

Yes, you're absolutely right that Clinton had to put up with ugly charges--he was a socialist, a rapist, he killed Vince Foster, etc. But his American citizenship, race, religion, parentage, etc. were never really issues. Because Clinton wasn't all that different from previous presidents. Obama, OTOH, has had to endure attacks of all sorts that never were relevant before.

To me it suggests a cultural cleavage that I see only intensifying as the big demographic shifts spread across the country. SB 1070 in AZ is one example. Obama is another--has he gotten credit for anything from the right? Killing bin Laden was an objectively good thing to all Americans, but the right had to immediately give credit elsewhere. When we can't even give a prez props for killing public enemy no. 1, we're way off the rails. I don't see an antidote, and I don't see the country rallying around a Pres. Romney, just as they've steadfastly refused to rally around Obama in any way. This is all a sign of a nation that has a sickness at its core that it's unwilling to address.

266 palomino  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:41:21pm

re: #251 Dark_Falcon

He felt that doing such would be the death knell of America, as he saw America's survival requiring the Union to be perpetual.

Do we seem like a "perpetual Union" at this point in our history?

267 engineer cat  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:43:12pm

re: #261 Dark_Falcon

The Democrats had largely lost their willingness to confront the spread of Communism by the 1970's, yet Communism advanced.

what overt act or manifest events could you adduce to substantiate either of those claims for the period of the 70s?

268 Gus  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:43:35pm
269 Gus  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:45:24pm

Whoa!

270 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:45:48pm

re: #262 sattv4u2

oh darn it

Lets try this

pull my finger!

271 engineer cat  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:46:30pm

re: #261 Dark_Falcon

but also:

'the spread of communism' is hardly a contemporary, live issue in the year 2012. racist mongering goes on, even increases, in the republican party

why would any respectable conservative continue to associate themselves with a movement that so easily accommodates, even protects, dog whistlers and even more blatant racists?

272 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:46:37pm

re: #249 palomino

But what makes you think Romney will not stoop as far or farther than Obama in this campaign? Romney's already accused Obama of not loving or understanding America. You don't need perfect hearing to detect that dog whistle.

I have absolutely no expectations of Mitt Romney's behavior. Mitt will do whatever the hell he thinks will work. We've seen that already.

I'm not even going to tell Obama, should he call me and ask for advice, not to play hard and dirty. This is a national election we're talking about here.

But that was, oddly enough, my condemnation of the Southern Strategy that you responded to, and you're also responding negatively to Dark's statement that it was something Nixon had to do for the sake of the election. What's the right response here? If the Democrats had kept their old, sick racists somehow, and won on the back of that, would it have been OK?

My stance is 'there's shit you shouldn't do'. Not, 'you have to be as pure as the driven snow all the time', but just 'there's shit you shouldn't do'.

273 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:47:53pm

re: #266 palomino

Do we seem like a "perpetual Union" at this point in our history?

I got faith.

274 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:48:08pm

re: #269 Gus

Whoa!

I did a page on that a few weeks ago. Seriously fucked up.

275 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:48:26pm

re: #269 Gus

Whoa!

Ummm...that's...interesting taste.

Why are they weighing in on a French election, anyhow?

276 sattv4u2  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:48:50pm

re: #270 Aye Pod

[Embedded content]

Were those goggles your wedding gift from Ice??

277 Gus  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:49:32pm

re: #275 SanFranciscoZionist

Ummm...that's...interesting taste.

Why are they weighing in on a French election, anyhow?

Yeah you're right. We Americans never weigh in on any international elections ever.

//

278 engineer cat  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:49:44pm

american politics will continue to be gravely ill until all racists are wandering in the wilderness without the support of either the republicans or the democrats

279 palomino  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:50:01pm

re: #255 Dark_Falcon

I deny that is a dog whistle. It has been used often enough against native born politicians for long enough to not qualify. May be if Mitt himself was a racist it would be different, but he's not.

Palin used essentially the same words 4 years ago to attack Obama after the conventions. I guess you'd argue it wasn't a dog whistle then?

Six months ago Romney's line on Obama was, "He's a good and decent man, I just happen to disagree with his policies." That didn't please the base, so Romney started in with the coded attacks that Obama is less American than the rest of us. And, if you don't think that has a racial element, you might want to look at the content of more right wing blogs.

I have no reason to think Romney is truly a racist, I don't know what's in his heart. I'm not sure anyone does except the computer programmer who last adjusted his circuitry. Instead he just does what's politically expedient. And if some dog whistles are expedient, so be it.

280 sattv4u2  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:50:33pm

re: #273 SanFranciscoZionist

I got faith.

scrounge up some hope and charity and you may be on to something!!!
/

281 Ben G. Hazi  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:51:04pm

re: #269 Gus

Whoa!

Daily Mail: Fascist lovers then, still fascist lovers now...

282 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:51:58pm

re: #276 sattv4u2

Were those goggles your wedding gift from Ice??

Yes, after I saw you modelling them in that video I just had to have them.

283 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:52:34pm

re: #277 Gus

Yeah you're right. We Americans never weigh in on any international elections ever.

//

I can't recall the last time a U.S. newspaper announced who they thought people should vote for in a Canadian or Mexican election.

Perhaps I missed it.

284 sattv4u2  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:53:21pm

re: #282 Aye Pod

Yes, after I saw you modelling them in that video I just had to have them.

The accent on the guy in the video is clearly not American

As they say in baseball, swingandamiss!!

(but nice try)

285 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:53:22pm

re: #271 engineer cat

but also:

'the spread of communism' is hardly a contemporary, live issue in the year 2012. racist mongering goes on, even increases, in the republican party

why would any respectable conservative continue to associate themselves with a movement that so easily accommodates, even protects, dog whistlers and even more blatant racists?

I stopped at the Cold War for reasons of space and because of narcolepsy.

I cannot continue as it is 5:52 here and my family has dinner reservations at 6:30.

BBL

286 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:54:03pm

re: #285 Dark_Falcon

I stopped at the Cold War for reasons of space and because of narcolepsy.

Updinged because this is the best sentence I've seen all day. You don't even NEED to know the context.

287 sattv4u2  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:54:05pm

re: #283 SanFranciscoZionist

I can't recall the last time a U.S. newspaper announced who they thought people should vote for in a Canadian or Mexican election.

Perhaps I missed it.

Image: Vote-For-Pedro-logo.gif

288 Gus  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:54:08pm

re: #283 SanFranciscoZionist

I can't recall the last time a U.S. newspaper announced who they thought people should vote for in a Canadian or Mexican election.

Perhaps I missed it.

That's the Daily Mail from the UK endorsing far right, nationalist, Le Pen for the French elections.

289 palomino  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:55:40pm

re: #272 SanFranciscoZionist

I have absolutely no expectations of Mitt Romney's behavior. Mitt will do whatever the hell he thinks will work. We've seen that already.

I'm not even going to tell Obama, should he call me and ask for advice, not to play hard and dirty. This is a national election we're talking about here.

But that was, oddly enough, my condemnation of the Southern Strategy that you responded to, and you're also responding negatively to Dark's statement that it was something Nixon had to do for the sake of the election. What's the right response here? If the Democrats had kept their old, sick racists somehow, and won on the back of that, would it have been OK?

My stance is 'there's shit you shouldn't do'. Not, 'you have to be as pure as the driven snow all the time', but just 'there's shit you shouldn't do'.

No, of course the Dems wouldn't have been justified if they'd excused the southern reactionaries in their party. But the Dems always had another wing, at least going back to the early 1900's--a progressive wing that stood for civil rights. Signing the CRA of 1964 was, for all practical purposes, the victory of that progressive wing and, at the same time, a big "fuck you" to southern Dems from their own party. So my point is that now I'm a Dem because they essentially purged the most backward element of the party 40+ years ago.

290 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:56:53pm

re: #288 Gus

That's the Daily Mail from the UK endorsing far right, nationalist, Le Pen.

Yes. I got that.

I was puzzled as to why a British paper was endorsing a French candidate. Except that, as you point out, the record appears to indicate that they just like fascists.

291 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:58:47pm

re: #289 palomino

No, of course the Dems wouldn't have been justified if they'd excused the southern reactionaries in their party. But the Dems always had another wing, at least going back to the early 1900's--a progressive wing that stood for civil rights. Signing the CRA of 1964 was, for all practical purposes, the victory of that progressive wing and, at the same time, a big "fuck you" to southern Dems from their own party. So my point is that now I'm a Dem because they essentially purged the most backward element of the party 40+ years ago.

Agreed, with both points.

292 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 3:59:01pm

re: #284 sattv4u2

The accent on the guy in the video is clearly not American

As they say in baseball, swingandamiss!!

(but nice try)

Jesus Christ LOL

293 engineer cat  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 4:00:35pm

re: #289 palomino

No, of course the Dems wouldn't have been justified if they'd excused the southern reactionaries in their party. But the Dems always had another wing, at least going back to the early 1900's--a progressive wing that stood for civil rights. Signing the CRA of 1964 was, for all practical purposes, the victory of that progressive wing and, at the same time, a big "fuck you" to southern Dems from their own party. So my point is that now I'm a Dem because they essentially purged the most backward element of the party 40+ years ago.

yes

the beginning of the progressive tradition in the modern democratic party dates back to the election of 1896 when existing progressive and populist movements joined the democratic party and nominated william jennings bryan

mckinley ran against him in 1896 and 1900 declaring that bryan was anti business and that his election would lead to a depression

294 sattv4u2  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 4:01:51pm

re: #292 Aye Pod

Jesus Christ LOL

No,, I don't think the guy in the video looked/ sounded Hispanic either!!

295 palomino  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 4:03:53pm

re: #273 SanFranciscoZionist

I got faith.

Why? Socioeconomic and other projections for the future don't bode well for the unity of the US. As it becomes bigger and more diverse, not just ethnically but more importantly religiously and culturally, I'm afraid that some sort of balkanization is a possibility. Probably many decades away, but at a certain point a country can become too large and unwieldy to govern effectively.

296 palomino  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 4:05:14pm

re: #293 engineer cat

yes

the beginning of the progressive tradition in the modern democratic party dates back to the election of 1896 when existing progressive and populist movements joined the democratic party and nominated william jennings bryan

mckinley ran against him in 1896 and 1900 declaring that bryan was anti business and that his election would lead to a depression

Bryan was quite a character. Got the Dem nod 3 times and lost each one.

298 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 4:07:56pm

re: #295 palomino

Why? Socioeconomic and other projections for the future don't bode well for the unity of the US. As it becomes bigger and more diverse, not just ethnically but more importantly religiously and culturally, I'm afraid that some sort of balkanization is a possibility. Probably many decades away, but at a certain point a country can become too large and unwieldy to govern effectively.

Because we've come through bad times and big changes before.

299 engineer cat  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 4:08:18pm
300 sattv4u2  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 4:13:22pm

re: #299 engineer cat


Employment for Labor
A Full Dinner Bucket
Prosperity
Sound Money - Good Markets

mckinley 1900 or romney 2012?

Well,, seeing that today McKinley would be 169 years old, i'll opt for the younger Romney

301 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Apr 21, 2012 4:24:56pm

re: #300 sattv4u2

Ageist!

302 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Apr 22, 2012 4:12:39am

re: #231 SanFranciscoZionist

He did?

(Missing the joke?)

Yeah, he married several women who had living husbands.

303 Flounder  Sun, Apr 22, 2012 5:02:33am

If he hasn't already, I hope he insured his hands!
All that is missing is a smoking cigarette tucked into his tuning string.


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Io9 - Everything You Need To Know About Lemuria, The Lost Continent Of Lemurs
Esther Inglis-Arkell talks about the weirdest lost continent myth, I've ever heard. Its the only one I know of that ever included giant telepathic lemurs. No seriously! In 1858 a young zoologist, playing around with an idea, came up with ...

1 week, 1 day ago
Views: 640 • Comments: 4
Tweets: 0 • Rating: 7
Laughing Gas
Scumbag “HBD believer” claims Michael Brown charged officer
WARNING: LINK TO HATE SITE He links to some ijreview, a right wing site: This guy makes me sick.

1 week, 4 days ago
Views: 1,482 • Comments: 6
Tweets: 1 • Rating: 1
 Frank says:

I'm not going to be Bill Clinton and say I never inhaled. I did inhale. I liked tobacco a lot better.