Stephen Colbert Interviews Texas School Board Creationist Don McLeroy

This nut was in charge of textbook standards that influenced the whole country
Wingnuts • Views: 31,734

On the Stephen Colbert show, here’s young earth creationist Don McLeroy, the fanatic appointed to the Texas State Board of Education by Rick Perry, and subject of many a post at LGF.

Weep for the future of America, because McLeroy’s stunning anti-science ignorance may seem extreme, but it’s not unusual in the Republican Party.

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291 comments
1 Kragar  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 12:13:03pm

"Someone has to stand up to the experts!"

2 Kragar  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 12:18:27pm

The idea of that man in charge of anything related to education is horrifying.

3 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 12:19:32pm

I'd like to challenge the religious extremists in this country to name a single country in this world that's become rich and powerful due to religious fervor.

4 Gus  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 12:20:18pm

Someone has to stand up to the Christianists.

5 Robert O.  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 12:20:59pm

I have often felt that America and China have traded places since the 19th century. Back then, America (and the West) was sheltered by the strong arms of science and technology. China was a backward state with an outdated political system that bitterly resisted political reform, education reform and Western science. History recalls that political leaders in China then arrogantly asserted the superiority of their "civilization," believing they (who were the world's most powerful civilization for centuries) had nothing to learn from the West. History taught us what happened next.

Today, the roles have reversed. The Chinese have embraced Western science, Western knowledge, Western economic systems, and are a superpower sheltered by the strong arms of science and technology that made us strong. America, on the other hand, is rejecting those very things. Too many Americans have become new "Qing Dynasty Mandarins", stubborn in their believe that our system is perfect, intransigent to reform, refuse to learn from other countries even when demonstrable evidence show others are doing things better than we do on, for example, healthcare, education, infrastructure investment.

6 Kragar  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 12:21:52pm

re: #3 Obdicut

I'd like to challenge the religious extremists in this country to name a single country in this world that's become rich and powerful due to religious fervor.

Vatican City.

7 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 12:23:21pm

re: #6 Kragar

Vatican City.

For a lot of time, the Vatican was entirely subservient to other states, like the Holy Roman Empire. And you could run across it in ten minutes.

8 Lidane  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 12:23:43pm

Here's the truly scary part -- McLeroy might not be on the Texas State Board of Education anymore, but he's not the only imbecile to serve on it. To wit:

Former Texas SBOE Member: Opposition to Teaching Creationism in Science Classrooms Is Like ‘Pre-Holocaust Germany’

More From Ed Board Candidate Spurlock: No Sex Ed, Kids ‘Are Gonna Figure It Out on Their Own’ Anyway

That same anti-sex ed genius also said this:

Texas Education Board Candidate: The Pilgrims Were Communists!

These are the kinds of people who want to set education policy, not only in Texas, but for the rest of the country, because the way the textbook scam works, whatever we buy for public schools here gets picked up elsewhere.

9 dragonath  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 12:23:58pm

Great, an Rushdoony acolyte as the chairman of the State Board of Education.

re: #7 Obdicut

Well, Vatican City got rich off of other people's religious fervor!

10 Kragar  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 12:24:17pm

re: #7 Obdicut

For a lot of time, the Vatican was entirely subservient to other states, like the Holy Roman Empire. And you could run across it in ten minutes.

Oh sure, now you add qualifiers.

11 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 12:26:00pm

"godless leftwing culture....." check
"Mainstream media" check
"Professors" check
"taken over national government" check

He's managed as succinct a statement of RR talking points as I have ever seen in wingnuttish discourse.

When are these poseurs going to admit that their real problem with the Feds has to do with civil rights and the forcible abolition of slavery?
They would have no complaint with federal intrusion if it were directed, say, into people's bedroom or toward the medievalist suppression of science.

12 dragonath  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 12:27:16pm

I can't watch this guy without thinking of this scene from David Byrne's True Stories:

Youtube Video
13 Gus  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 12:27:21pm

I love how men like McLeroy always say "I don't believe that all of this came from nothing." Then they turn around and say that instead "it came from a supreme being or God." Who apparently came from nothing.

14 celticdragon  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 12:28:12pm

re: #11 Shiplord Kirel

"godless leftwing culture..." check
"Mainstream media" check
"Professors" check
"taken over national government" check

He's managed as succinct a statement of RR talking points as I have ever seen in wingnuttish discourse.

When are these poseurs going to admit that their real problem with the Feds has to do with civil rights and the forcible abolition of slavery?
They would have no complaint with federal intrusion if it were directed, say, into people's bedroom or toward the medievalist suppression of science.

Exactly. They love coercive state power when they are the ones directing it to enforce their religious and cultural preferences.

15 Lidane  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 12:29:27pm

re: #13 Gus

I love how men like McLeroy always say "I don't believe that all of this came from nothing." Then they turn around and say that instead "it came from a supreme being or God." Who apparently came from nothing.

Exactly. At the end of the day, it goes back to the age old question -- if everything needs a supreme creator, and God created everything, then who or what created God?

16 Kragar  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 12:30:42pm

re: #13 Gus

I love how men like McLeroy always say "I don't believe that all of this came from nothing." Then they turn around and say that instead "it came from a supreme being or God." Who apparently came from nothing.

In the beginning, there was nothing.

Then God said, "Let there be LIGHT!"

There was still nothing, but now you could see it.

17 Kragar  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 12:31:06pm

re: #15 Lidane

Exactly. At the end of the day, it goes back to the age old question -- if everything needs a supreme creator, and God created everything, then who or what created God?

Azathoth.

18 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 12:31:11pm

re: #15 Lidane

Exactly. At the end of the day, it goes back to the age old question -- if everything needs a supreme creator, and God created everything, then who or what created God?

" I made myself. I cannot be unmade. *I* am all powerful!"

19 Kragar  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 12:31:41pm

re: #18 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

" I made myself. I cannot be unmade. *I* am all powerful!"

Then why does he need people to send him money?

20 Gus  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 12:31:41pm

re: #16 Kragar

In the beginning, there was nothing.

Then God said, "Let there be LIGHT!"

There was still nothing, but now you could see it.

Right. So a God who came from nothing created the universe. From nothing.

Makes sense.

//

21 Mocking Jay  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 12:32:09pm

We atheists don't really have much of a problem. It really doesn't keep us up at night. Sorry, nutjob.

22 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 12:32:35pm

re: #19 Kragar

Then why does he need people to send him money?

To buy more giant black legos of course.

23 kirkspencer  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 12:34:39pm

re: #8 Lidane

[snip]

That same anti-sex ed genius also said this:

Texas Education Board Candidate: The Pilgrims Were Communists!

[snip]

Actually, though not the way she meant it the pilgrims were communists. Their production went into a common pool which was administered and distributed by the leaders. This got changed (and in many ways went too far the other way), but they were communistic at first.

24 Gus  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 12:37:44pm

So if God was there for all of eternity that would equate to an infinitesimal time frame or (∞). Think not in terms of billions of years or even trillions. Infinity. Finally, after sitting around in the void of space He decided to create the "heavens and the Earth" and "man in His image." Thus after an existence of this supernatural being who was present in the void for a period of infinity it all came down to the last 6,000 years.

25 steve_davis  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 12:40:04pm

re: #13 Gus

I love how men like McLeroy always say "I don't believe that all of this came from nothing." Then they turn around and say that instead "it came from a supreme being or God." Who apparently came from nothing.

"It's no use, young man. It's turtles all the way down!"

26 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 12:40:45pm

re: #25 steve_davis

"It's no use, young man. It's turtles all the way down!"

I like turtles.

27 Kragar  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 12:40:46pm

re: #24 Gus

So if God was there for all of eternity that would equate to an infinitesimal time frame or (∞). Think not in terms of billions of years or even trillions. Infinity. Finally, after sitting around in the void of space He decided to create the "heavens and the Earth" and "man in His image." Thus after an existence of this supernatural being who was present in the void for a period of infinity it all came down to the last 6,000 years.

Nope, its only been about 10 minutes. All evidence to the contrary was put there by an omnipotent creator to fool us.

28 Gus  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 12:41:58pm

1 X 10100 X googol - 6,000 years.

29 Gus  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 12:43:24pm

Well over 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, years.

30 Kragar  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 12:43:34pm

re: #26 Obdicut

I like turtles.

The Great and Powerful Turtle?

31 S'latch  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 12:43:56pm

I wonder if Don McLeroy knew anything about Stephen Colbert's show before appearing on it, and if he even knows what happened now.

32 Gus  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 12:44:44pm

Which incidentally is how long you'll spend in heaven or hell. Eternity. Infinity. Yep. Sounds plausible.

33 AK-47%  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 12:45:13pm

Glad you posted this, I usually ignore the interview parts unless it is someone I know of or am interested in.

34 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 12:45:15pm

re: #31 Lawrence Schmerel

At a certain level of nuttiness, you become immune to satire. I think McLeroy is at it. If you deny empirical reality, why would you care that someone was making fun of you?

Besides, you can just think to yourself about how they're going to burn in hell while you're kicking it with Aryan Jesus.

35 AK-47%  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 12:46:56pm

Just take the textbook out, give the kids the Bible and ask "any questions?"

36 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 12:47:20pm

re: #30 Kragar

The Great and Powerful Turtle?

It was all self-promotion in his case though*.

* - OK, being a real powerful telekinetic certainly helped.

37 S'latch  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 12:50:08pm

re: #34 Obdicut

I do not see any sign that Don McLeroy is aware that he is being mocked. He does not appear to interact with Stephen Colbert in a way that would suggest he is thinking about Stephen burning in hell.

38 Ming  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 12:52:37pm

re: #5 Robert O.

You make a very good point about China. I'd like to add that there are many other countries, in addition to China, that are catching up to us. For all I know, in some areas, they may be moving ahead of us. For years, stem-cell research has flourished in other countries, while the religious right fought it here. Iran (or whoever may have helped them) knew enough to bring down our drone, which they're now studying. Israel's Stuxnet virus gives us a glimpse of the cyberwar we may face in the future. America cannot afford to undermine any of its advancements in science, and especially cannot afford to undermine the science education of its children. The world is not standing still.

39 Kragar  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 12:52:39pm

re: #36 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

It was all self-promotion in his case though*.

* - OK, being a real powerful telekinetic certainly helped.

I liked Snot after he got infected the second time.

40 Gus  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 12:53:54pm

I might as well believe in witchcraft.

41 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 12:54:11pm

re: #38 Ming

You make a very good point about China. I'd like to add that there are many other countries, in addition to China, that are catching up to us. For all I know, in some areas, they may be moving ahead of us. For years, stem-cell research has flourished in other countries, while the religious right fought it here. Iran (or whoever may have helped them) knew enough to bring down our drone, which they're now studying. Israel's Stuxnet virus gives us a glimpse of the cyberwar we may face in the future. America cannot afford to undermine any of its advancements in science, and especially cannot afford to undermine the science education of its children. The world is not standing still.

While I would not want to see America's children short-changed, we always talk about other countries catching up to us as though this is a horrible thing.

I'd love to see some African countries start gaining on us, particularly in the field of female education.

42 lawhawk  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 12:56:26pm

The test of one's faith isn't that you believe in the creation story in the Bible and that you must convince everyone else as to its absolute truth absent and contrary to all science and objective examination of the natural world around us.

It's that you still believe in G-d notwithstanding the creation story.

At least, that's how I see it.

The creation story is a parable of understanding how the universe and the Earth came to be. When you have even the Pope saying that faith and evolution can go hand in hand, you know you're out of the mainstream by peddling ID or creationism.

The folks who push creationism - taking and adhering to a literal interpretation - have made this the entirety of their worldview and central religious tenet, despite the fact that it comes from about 3 dozen lines in Genesis.

Fact is that if you look at these same lines, they too form a general understanding of the universe that takes into account evolution (lesser creatures and plants came before man) and even the modern understanding of cosmology.

43 Gus  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 12:58:27pm

Googol and Googolplex by Carl Sagan

Youtube Video
44 Eventual Carrion  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 12:59:02pm

re: #19 Kragar

Then why does he need people to send him money?

S/he has never been real good with the whole financial thing. Real good at the damning, money not so much.

45 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 12:59:42pm

re: #42 lawhawk

The test of one's faith isn't that you believe in the creation story in the Bible and that you must convince everyone else as to its absolute truth absent and contrary to all science and objective examination of the natural world around us.

It's that you still believe in G-d notwithstanding the creation story.

At least, that's how I see it.

The creation story is a parable of understanding how the universe and the Earth came to be. When you have even the Pope saying that faith and evolution can go hand in hand, you know you're out of the mainstream by peddling ID or creationism.

The folks who push creationism - taking and adhering to a literal interpretation - have made this the entirety of their worldview and central religious tenet, despite the fact that it comes from about 3 dozen lines in Genesis.

Fact is that if you look at these same lines, they too form a general understanding of the universe that takes into account evolution (lesser creatures and plants came before man) and even the modern understanding of cosmology.

Which is a clue that logic and faith are not the defining issues here when it comes to dealing with men like McLeroy (Jenkins!).

46 Eventual Carrion  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 12:59:58pm

re: #20 Gus

Right. So a God who came from nothing created the universe. From nothing.

Makes sense.

//

Bootstraps baby!

47 Gus  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 1:01:03pm

1010100 = Googolplex

Infinity, or eternity, is like Googolplex to the number one. Eternity never ends.

48 Gus  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 1:02:41pm

re: #46 RayFerd

Bootstraps baby!

All of this can be yours if you join my religion and follow these rules!

//

49 lawhawk  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 1:09:33pm

re: #48 Gus

Rules? Where we're going, we don't have rules. /I'm on a highway.... a highway to hell...

50 Gus  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 1:10:11pm

re: #49 lawhawk

Rules? Where we're going, we don't have rules. /I'm on a highway... a highway to hell...

Kirk Cameron vs Stephen Hawking!

51 Gus  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 1:23:29pm

How Did We Get Here ? (BBC Documentary)

Youtube Video

"There is grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed into a few forms or into one; and that, whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being, evolved."

Charles Darwin

52 lawhawk  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 1:25:20pm

re: #50 Gus

Only Hawking made it on the Simpsons (4x!) (and Futurama and Big Bang Theory) and Cameron didn't.

Game. Set. Match.

53 Kragar  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 1:26:02pm

Phil Bryant: Liberals' 'One Mission in Life is to Abort Children'

Bryant: You would think that Barack Obama and all those on the left that love so much to talk about women’s health care would rush to support this bill, would just say, ‘absolutely we want the strongest health care, we want admissions privileges, we want that women that is going through that abortion for her life and safety to be paramount,’ well it should be the paramount of the child.

Even if you believe in abortion, the hypocrisy of the left that now tried to kill this bill, that says that I should have never signed it, the true hypocrisy is that their one mission in life is to abort children, is to kill children in the womb. It doesn’t really matter, they don’t care if the mother’s life is in jeopardy, that if something goes wrong that a doctor can’t admit them to a local hospital, that he’s not even board certified. We passed that bill and I think you’ll see other states follow and when that happens at least these fly-in abortionists are going to be regulated under the state laws of the Medical Procedures Act here in the state of Mississippi as they should be across the nation.

Perkins: Well the driving factor is profit for many of them.

54 Charles Johnson  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 1:26:51pm

Embedded tweets are now fully visible when you post a comment or show new comments - instead of having to reload the page. Example.

(Reload the page to get the latest Javascript.)

55 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 1:28:12pm

re: #3 Obdicut

I'd like to challenge the religious extremists in this country to name a single country in this world that's become rich and powerful due to religious fervor.

The problem is: they say us.

56 Gus  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 1:28:59pm

Test.

57 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 1:29:10pm

Oh, happy happy joy joy.

There's a local outbreak of diphtheria.

On the bright side, my non-vaccinating friends' kids have chicken pox, so they're already quarantined at home.

58 Gus  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 1:29:20pm

Check!

59 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 1:30:11pm

re: #16 Kragar

In the beginning, there was nothing.

Then God said, "Let there be LIGHT!"

There was still nothing, but now you could see it.

Doesn't say anywhere that there was nothing.

There was the earth, and chaos, and the spirit of God hovered over the surface of the waters.

That's at least three things if you leave God out, before you even get to the light.

61 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 1:32:09pm

re: #41 Mostly sane, most of the time.

While I would not want to see America's children short-changed, we always talk about other countries catching up to us as though this is a horrible thing.

I'd love to see some African countries start gaining on us, particularly in the field of female education.

I'd like to see the rest of the world gain because they're going fast, though, not because we've started to pedal in reverse.

62 Gus  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 1:33:37pm

This is a great channel on Youtube: Evolution Documentary

63 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 1:34:51pm

re: #20 Gus

Right. So a God who came from nothing created the universe. From nothing.

Makes sense.

//

To be fair, God didn't come from nothing, it always existed. ;)

64 Interesting Times  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 1:34:55pm
65 Gus  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 1:35:26pm

re: #63 Standard, Yet Pretty

To be fair, God didn't come from nothing, it always existed. ;)

Not my God. ;)

66 AK-47%  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 1:36:40pm

re: #3 Obdicut

I'd like to challenge the religious extremists in this country to name a single country in this world that's become rich and powerful due to religious fervor.

These people believe that our exceptional status is due to the fact that we have a special relationship with God: we reflect his divine laws in our own laws. As long as we continue to do so, we will be blessed.

That is where they see the threat in secularism. if we adopt laws that conflict with (their interpretation of) Divine Law, such as abortion, gay marriage, legalized prostitution/gambling/marijuana, then we will fall from favor with Goed and lose our exceptional status.

that is why these people see no room for compromise: their religion and their sense of patriotic duty are all tied into one.

67 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 1:36:46pm

re: #32 Gus

Which incidentally is how long you'll spend in heaven or hell. Eternity. Infinity. Yep. Sounds plausible.

Eternity in hell for finite crimes. Loving god!

68 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 1:37:49pm

re: #54 Charles Johnson

API changes?

69 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 1:37:51pm

re: #67 Standard, Yet Pretty

Eternity in hell for finite crimes. Loving god!

I thought you studied with the LDS missionaries?

70 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 1:38:22pm

re: #65 Gus

Not my God. ;)

Theistic God.

71 Interesting Times  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 1:38:43pm

re: #63 Standard, Yet Pretty

Upding because I just noticed your new Display Name ;)

72 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 1:40:21pm

re: #69 Mostly sane, most of the time.

I thought you studied with the LDS missionaries?

Even LDS faith has "outer darkness".

73 abolitionist  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 1:41:39pm

re: #60 Killgore Trout

Flying object propels itself by flipping inside out (video)

Cool, but it's unnecessarily complex, IMO.

74 Gus  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 1:41:43pm

re: #70 Standard, Yet Pretty

Theistic God.

Where's my razor blade!

//Jefferson

//

75 Gus  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 1:42:13pm

re: #73 abolitionist

Cool, but it's unnecessarily complex, IMO.

Yes. But can it be used to kill people?

//

76 Varek Raith  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 1:43:34pm

re: #60 Killgore Trout

Flying object propels itself by flipping inside out (video)

What manner of sorcery is this?!?!

77 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 1:43:51pm

re: #72 Standard, Yet Pretty

Even LDS faith has "outer darkness".

Yeah, but you have to be really, really bad to go there. Ordinary unrepentant sinners don't.

78 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 1:45:57pm

re: #77 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Yeah, but you have to be really, really bad to go there. Ordinary unrepentant sinners don't.

Sure, but it's still eternal punishment for what are only finite sins (even murder).

79 Gus  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 1:49:37pm

re: #76 Varek Raith

What manner of sorcery is this?!?!

Can we put a machine gun on that?

//

80 abolitionist  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 1:51:07pm

re: #79 Gus

Can we put a machine gun on that?

//

Probably need three to maintain symmetry.

81 wrenchwench  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 1:51:25pm

Test:

82 AK-47%  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 1:51:35pm

re: #79 Gus

Can we put a machine gun on that?

//

a gatling gun with six barrels...

83 wrenchwench  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 1:51:42pm

Wowee.

84 Varek Raith  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 1:52:38pm

re: #79 Gus

Can we put a machine gun on that?

//

How silly. A machine gun. Pffftt.
A tac nuke is what it needs.

85 Gus  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 1:54:01pm

re: #82 Expand Your Ground

a gatling gun with six barrels...

Should be able to get those babies out at 200 million a pop. I'll call Lockheed. We should have those in service in about 50 years.

//

86 Kragar  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 1:54:01pm

Jon Stewart: Veepstakes Like A Dare Nobody Wants To Take

87 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 1:54:01pm

re: #79 Gus

Can we put a machine gun on that?

//

On Cyberdemon and Spider Mastermind? Sure.

88 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 1:56:09pm

re: #76 Varek Raith

What manner of sorcery is this?!?!

Mirror the surfaces, add some more complex controls, a bit more rigidity, and you get floating solar concentration mirrors. Sunflowers for the win!

;)

89 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 1:57:41pm

re: #78 Standard, Yet Pretty

Sure, but it's still eternal punishment for what are only finite sins (even murder).

You can only go to outer darkness if you sin against the Holy Ghost.

90 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 1:58:28pm

re: #89 Mostly sane, most of the time.

You can only go to outer darkness if you sin against the Holy Ghost.

Or piss off the Valar enough that they finally opt to take action.

91 Lidane  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 1:59:34pm

*sigh*

What is it with otherwise intelligent people falling for conspiracy theories? The FB friend of mine who just posted this is an MBA and is generally a smart guy. WTF?

Supposedly, Bilderberg always chooses the Vice President. It was rumored that they were having a 'steering meeting' along side the recent Colombia meetings that Obama attended. When Bilderberg met in 2008 in Virginia, both Obama and Hillary went missing for awhile. It is believed they at the Bilderberg meeting. Obama's press secretary had to explain to a plane full of angry journalists why they were on a plane to Chicago but Obama was not coming to Chicago. LOL

[Link: webcache.googleusercontent.com...]

92 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 1:59:37pm

re: #84 Varek Raith

How silly. A machine gun. Pffftt.
A tac nuke is what it needs.

How about spike throwers, more speed, and a nice Mutalisk-like sound effect as they swarm and attack?

93 Varek Raith  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 2:00:23pm

re: #92 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

How about spike throwers, more speed, and a nice Mutalisk-like sound effect as they swarm and attack?

ZERGRUSH!11!!!

94 CuriousLurker  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 2:01:20pm

re: #77 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Yeah, but you have to be really, really bad to go there. Ordinary unrepentant sinners don't.

Maybe we should have a contest. Y'know like get all the religions together and see who has the scariest Hell, the best Heaven, which followers have to pray the most, perform the strangest rituals, have the most complicated dietary restrictions, etc.

It can be followed by the clerical beauty pageant I mentioned a while back, where everyone votes on whose clergy members get to wear the most impressive outfit (that'll prolly go to the Catholics or one of the Orthodox churches).

Oh, did I mention that all the judges have to be atheists? 'Cause they're impartial—they think we're ALL delusional. //

95 Kragar  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 2:02:00pm

I forgot this was coming out.

Youtube Video
96 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 2:02:41pm

re: #94 CuriousLurker

Maybe we should have a contest. Y'know like get all the religions together and see who has the scariest Hell, the best Heaven, which followers have to pray the most, perform the strangest rituals, have the most complicated dietary restrictions, etc.

It can be followed by the clerical beauty pageant I mentioned a while back, where everyone votes on whose clergy members get to wear the most impressive outfit (that'll prolly go to the Catholics or one of the Orthodox churches).

Oh, did I mention that all the judges have to be atheists? 'Cause they're impartial—they think we're ALL delusional. //

Hmmm. I'll have to find out what kind of food Mormon heaven serves. We never really talk about that.

97 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 2:03:33pm

re: #96 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Hmmm. I'll have to find out what kind of food Mormon heaven serves. We never really talk about that.

I hope someone does BBQ...

Oh wait, that's the other side of the equation who specializes in that.
/

98 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 2:04:52pm

re: #94 CuriousLurker

Chinese have a lot of hells, Jack.

Youtube Video

[Link: hateon.blogspot.com...]

99 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 2:05:29pm

re: #98 Obdicut

Chinese have a lot of hells, Jack.

[Embedded content] [Link: hateon.blogspot.com...]

What kind of food do they serve?

100 Amory Blaine  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 2:05:40pm

Minn. Republican Party gets eviction notice

ST. PAUL, Minn. -- Minnesota's debt-plagued Republican Party has been served with an eviction notice for its party headquarters after failing to pay its rent payments since August.

The party's landlord filed the notice last week in Ramsey County court and it is scheduled to be heard next Tuesday. Minnesota Republican Party Chairman Pat Shortridge told party members in a memo Thursday that officials are trying to renegotiate the lease to get one that better fits space and cost needs.

The GOP has 21 months remaining on a lease with Hub Properties Trust for space a block from the state Capitol. Shortridge revealed that the rent hadn't been paid in eight months.

The Minnesota GOP owes hundreds of thousands of dollars to various vendors.

The eviction notice was first reported by Politics in Minnesota.

101 CuriousLurker  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 2:05:40pm

re: #98 Obdicut

Chinese have a lot of hells, Jack.

[Embedded content] [Link: hateon.blogspot.com...]

Wow, impressive!

102 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 2:09:16pm

So, anybody tried out Google Drive?

103 AK-47%  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 2:10:10pm

re: #100 Amory Blaine

Minn. Republican Party gets eviction notice

THE RENT IS TOO DAMN HIGH!!!

104 wrenchwench  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 2:10:19pm
105 Kragar  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 2:13:02pm

Small objects blasting a path through Saturn's F ring

Berserker probes, we're all gonna die.

106 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 2:14:12pm

re: #104 wrenchwench

[Embedded content]

OK, Twitter is officially a bad influence on politics.

107 Gus  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 2:19:00pm

re: #104 wrenchwench

[Embedded content]

O'Reilly is way off base. Reich isn't a commie. He's just annoying.

//

108 Varek Raith  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 2:19:23pm

re: #21 Assemble!

We atheists don't really have much of a problem. It really doesn't keep us up at night. Sorry, nutjob.

Unless he's bowling. Damn storms.
/

109 Gus  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 2:20:10pm

re: #102 Standard, Yet Pretty

So, anybody tried out Google Drive?

Yep. Here. Give it a shot.

110 Mattand  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 2:21:17pm

re: #91 Lidane

*sigh*

What is it with otherwise intelligent people falling for conspiracy theories? The FB friend of mine who just posted this is an MBA and is generally a smart guy. WTF?

Had a conversation a few years ago with a guy I know who's an engineer and a teacher. I don't recall exactly but he said something like that in engineering, you need a set amount of data points (32 sticks in my mind for some reason) before you can proceed on a project.

Half an hour later he's telling me how UFOs are actually time-travelling humans from a far-flung century, with all the conviction of an 8 year old who knows Santa's real because he met him at the mall.

Another friend of mine, one of the smartest people I know, is a quasi-truther; thinks we invaded Afghanistan to secure an oil pipeline, but dances around 9/11 when pushed. He's just asking questions, you know.

Being smart doesn't protect you from thinking logically if something challenges a deeply held belief, regardless of evidence.

111 Varek Raith  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 2:21:48pm

Ron Paul gets half of Iowa's delegates.
Lol.

112 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 2:22:23pm

Gahh...I have "Info Wars" poisoning from trying to read the comments section. Alex Jones sure has collected quite the little band of neo-Nazis and anti-Semites over there, for example I give you "Dunagan"...

[Link: www.infowars.com...]

I don't think I'll be going back over there again anytime soon, it is just too sickening. :(

113 Varek Raith  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 2:22:23pm

re: #111 Varek Raith

Ron Paul gets half of Iowa's delegates.
Lol.

And Minnesota.

114 Kragar  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 2:23:27pm

re: #113 Varek Raith

And Minnesota.

"COME, SON OF JOREL!!! KNEEL BEFORE RON!"

115 ArchangelMichael  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 2:24:20pm

re: #112 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You

It's a wretched hive of sickness and insanity. The world viewed through a lens where everyone is either diabolical or sheep, and only they know the Troof!!111!

116 Varek Raith  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 2:24:26pm

I think I might've have won Iowa.
Let me check...

117 Mattand  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 2:24:40pm

re: #112 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You

Against my better judgement, I went to that link. I'll be sending you the bill for my brain bleach any day now.

118 ArchangelMichael  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 2:25:24pm

re: #116 Varek Raith

I think I might've have won Iowa.
Let me check...

I was hoping General Zod would have. I was looking forward to the Zod/Ursa '12 posters.

119 Kragar  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 2:26:12pm

Rick Scarborough Claims Bart Simpson, Rachel Maddow and Brokeback Mountain are Signs of Our Culture's Decay

Vision America’s Rick Scarborough headlined Awakening 2012’s “Pastors, Churches and Political Activity: Re-energizing the Pulpit” panel, where he went on a tirade about all of the culture’s social “ills,” which include programs such as The Simpsons, The Big Bang Theory, The Rachel Maddow Show, and Beavis and Butt-Head (or as he puts it, “Beavis and Behind Head”) along with movies like Brokeback Mountain. He went on to blame the growth of such supposed evils on the end of unconstitutional public school-organized prayer and the teaching of evolution in schools, and noted that “sex-education has become nothing more than the facilitation of fornication, complete with home study with the teachers.”

YEAH! Sex Ed home study needs to go back to the days when it was done by priests!

120 Gus  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 2:27:53pm

re: #112 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You

Gahh...I have "Info Wars" poisoning from trying to read the comments section. Alex Jones sure has collected quite the little band of neo-Nazis and anti-Semites over there, for example I give you "Dunagan"...

[Link: www.infowars.com...]

I don't think I'll be going back over there again anytime soon, it is just too sickening. :(

Right. Having themselves sent to their deaths in Nazi concentration camps was all part of the plan. Uh huh. Just another psycho.

121 Kragar  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 2:27:55pm

re: #118 ArchangelMichael

I was hoping General Zod would have. I was looking forward to the Zod/Ursa '12 posters.

Cthulhu/Dagon '12

122 Mattand  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 2:28:26pm

re: #119 Kragar

Big Bang Theory? Really?

I'd cut him some slack if it was because of the show's obtrusive, irritating laugh track. I'm guessing it's that devil science they have on the program that's tickling his Leviticus, though.

123 b_sharp  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 2:28:46pm

re: #13 Gus

I love how men like McLeroy always say "I don't believe that all of this came from nothing." Then they turn around and say that instead "it came from a supreme being or God." Who apparently came from nothing.

God is outside the universe so is outside the need for causation.

Yet tell them the four fundamental forces and time did not exist before the BB, or that the negative energy of gravity added to all other energy equals zero, or that paired matter anti-matter pops in and out of the universe, apparently from nowhere and they reject it outright.

124 Targetpractice  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 2:31:56pm

re: #121 Kragar

Cthulhu/Dagon '12

"Why settle for the lesser evil?"

125 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 2:33:59pm

re: #119 Kragar

YEAH! Sex Ed home study needs to go back to the days when it was done by priests!

They had quite a curriculum in the Irish boarding schools, so I've heard.

126 Kragar  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 2:34:11pm

re: #124 Targetpractice

"Why settle for the lesser evil?"

"2012 - The Stars Are Right!"
"NO MORE YEARS!"
"CHANGE... INTO A FISH!"

127 ArchangelMichael  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 2:36:35pm

re: #126 Kragar

"2012 - The Stars Are Right!"
"NO MORE YEARS!"
"CHANGE... INTO A FISH!"

Speaking of 'No More Years!'...

Anyone know what happened to that preacher that was claiming the Rapture would happen in May 2011 and End of the World in October 2011?

Or all the dupes that gave away their life savings? Any lawsuits?

128 b_sharp  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 2:39:14pm

re: #127 ArchangelMichael

Speaking of 'No More Years!'...

Anyone know what happened to that preacher that was claiming the Rapture would happen in May 2011 and End of the World in October 2011?

Or all the dupes that gave away their life savings? Any lawsuits?

He disappeared.

129 b_sharp  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 2:41:36pm

re: #119 Kragar

Rick Scarborough Claims Bart Simpson, Rachel Maddow and Brokeback Mountain are Signs of Our Culture's Decay

YEAH! Sex Ed home study needs to go back to the days when it was done by priests!

Fornication is the number one major in College/University.
I used to be pretty good at it.

130 wrenchwench  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 2:41:54pm

re: #122 mattand

Big Bang Theory? Really?

I'd cut him some slack if it was because of the show's obtrusive, irritating laugh track. I'm guessing it's that devil science they have on the program that's tickling his Leviticus, though.

Second person today to say that. First one was met by a link to Wikipedia that says it's taped before a live audience.

131 b_sharp  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 2:43:11pm

re: #130 wrenchwench

Second person today to say that. First one was met by a link to Wikipedia that says it's taped before a live audience.

The live audience isn't really alive, they're zombies told when to laugh.

132 gwangung  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 2:44:15pm

re: #131 Innumerate Numerologist

The live audience isn't really alive, they're zombies told when to laugh.

So what makes any different from any other American TV audience?

133 CuriousLurker  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 2:44:17pm

re: #127 ArchangelMichael

Speaking of 'No More Years!'...

Anyone know what happened to that preacher that was claiming the Rapture would happen in May 2011 and End of the World in October 2011?

Or all the dupes that gave away their life savings? Any lawsuits?

Not sure about lawsuits, but:

Camping admitted in a private interview that he no longer believed that anybody could know the time of the Rapture or the end of the world, in stark contrast to his previously staunch position on the subject. In March 2012, he stated that his attempt to predict a date was "sinful", and that his critics had been right in pointing to the scriptural text "of that day and hour knoweth no man". He added that he was now searching the Bible "even more fervently... not to find dates, but to be more faithful in our understanding."

134 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 2:45:21pm

re: #130 wrenchwench

Second person today to say that. First one was met by a link to Wikipedia that says it's taped before a live audience.

But the live audience is "sweetened" by teh laffs for broadcasting.

135 b_sharp  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 2:45:40pm

Anybody notice Alberta thought better of electing Tea Party North and went with a somewhat centrist, less bigoted party?

136 Kragar  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 2:45:58pm

Women’s Prayer Group Praying That the Women at MRFF All Get Incurable Breast Cancer

“Mickey Wienstien, we called you on the weekend to advice you that our womens prayer circle at our church will be ending your wickedness against Christ Jesus and his anointed of the USA in our military. In America which is Jesus’ country we can pray all we want for anything we want. you hung up on us and were rude to our leader. but will that stop us or Christ Jesus? No it will not and never could have, wicked Mickey. Our prayer circle has never failed to acheive our hosts granting of the scripture we pray. for direct intervention against you as you are a true demon to America. Luke 9:1 We will not stop our prayers until you stop the evil you do with Lucifer on a daly basis. Luke 9:1 But not against you Mickey. We know by your internet site and your book who it is to be. Now for our prayer, we pray that the women who work in your MFRR and the women in your family will befall fast moving breast cancer which can not everbe cured. We pray this for Leah Bruton, and Becki Miller, Patricia Corigan, Chris Rodda, Edie Disler, Vicky Garrison, Kristin Leslie, Melinda Moeton and Joan Slish. And you evil clan too, we pray this for Bonnie Wiensten and Amanda and Amber Wienstein and the woman lawyers Cariline Mitchel and Katherin Ritchy and all women of all who work at with for Military Freedom Against Religon Foundation. know that we pray and pray hard all the days until you stop your destruction of our American army and accept Christ Jesus as Lord and join His army.”

Because nothing shows Christian love like praying for someone to get cancer.

137 Mattand  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 2:46:19pm

re: #130 wrenchwench

Second person today to say that. First one was met by a link to Wikipedia that says it's taped before a live audience.

It may be before a live audience, but I'd bet good money (or mediocre, for that matter) that the producers are enhancing the audience reaction in post. The writing on that show ain't that funny.

138 b_sharp  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 2:46:23pm

re: #132 gwangung

So what makes any different from any other American TV audience?

Pay scale.

139 b_sharp  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 2:48:22pm

re: #136 Kragar

Women’s Prayer Group Praying That the Women at MRFF All Get Incurable Breast Cancer

Because nothing shows Christian love like praying for someone to get cancer.

To advice you?

Dipshits need advice on how to spell advise.

140 Mattand  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 2:48:32pm

re: #136 Kragar

Women’s Prayer Group Praying That the Women at MRFF All Get Incurable Breast Cancer

Because nothing shows Christian love like praying for someone to get cancer.

Exhibit 15C on why I gave up religion and identify athiest.

141 Kragar  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 2:49:18pm

Liberty Univ addresses Romney complaints by deleting comments

After last week’s announcement, hundreds of comments were registered under the announcement on Liberty’s Facebook page. While some were supportive of the decision to invite Romney, a number of respondents were angered and posted their frustration to Facebook.

As of Monday morning, the announcement was deleted from the page, along with all the comments.

“Complaints died down because they took the ability to complain down from the website,” said Janet Loeffler, a 53-year old freshman at Liberty who takes classes online. Loeffler was a frequent poster to the Facebook page.

142 Kragar  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 2:50:53pm

re: #140 mattand

Exhibit 15C on why I gave up religion and identify athiest.

Have you considered accepting Cthulhu as your personal entity of worship? He is immense and immortal after all.

143 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 2:51:53pm

re: #142 Kragar

Have you considered accepting Cthulhu as your personal entity of worship? He is immense and immortal after all.

He's down there in R'lyeh and he don't give a shit! Look at that sleepy fuck!

144 Kragar  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 2:53:44pm

re: #143 Standard, Yet Pretty

He's down there in R'lyeh and he don't give a shit! Look at that sleepy fuck!

What's he doing now? OH, HE PULLED THE HEAD OFF THAT SAILOR! THATS JUST NASTY!

145 Mattand  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 2:53:50pm

re: #142 Kragar

Have you considered accepting Cthulhu as your personal entity of worship? He is immense and immortal after all.

I did, briefly, but I can't stand the Old Ones. Selfish pricks. Came over the house for a party and got slime and tentacle marks all over the furniture. Also ate the Rock Band controllers.

146 Mattand  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 2:56:54pm

re: #142 Kragar

Have you considered accepting Cthulhu as your personal entity of worship? He is immense and immortal after all.

Youtube Video
147 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 2:57:16pm

re: #120 Gus

Right. Having themselves sent to their deaths in Nazi concentration camps was all part of the plan. Uh huh. Just another psycho.

You missed this part then...

The Jehovah Witnesses in the same camps where largely ignored, but their hunger strike pictures came in handy of course. It was the conscientious objectors who were mainly in the camps and the Hitlers military was full of Jews.

You see, all those pictures of starving concentration camp victims were actually J.W.s who were skinny because of their voluntary hunger strikes, not Nazi mistreatment. Meanwhile all the Jews were actually serving in the German army under false identities or something...

/Sigh, what a fucking nutter, sheesh!

148 Kragar  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 3:02:55pm

I tried to think of all the complete nutball religions based off of Christianity, then I said to myself "Doesn't matter, had sects."

149 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 3:06:09pm

re: #147 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You

You missed this part then...

You see, all those pictures of starving concentration camp victims were actually J.W.s who were skinny because of their voluntary hunger strikes, not Nazi mistreatment. Meanwhile all the Jews were actually serving in the German army under false identities or something...

/Sigh, what a fucking nutter, sheesh!

And all the fake quotes that it got from DavidDuke.com and Stormfront.

150 PhillyPretzel  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 3:21:31pm

OT:Just posted a page on my experiences voting this morning. [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

151 PhillyPretzel  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 3:27:52pm

re: #149 Learned Mother of Zion

"fu*king nutter" That is what we call our Mayor. // He is name is Michael Nutter.

152 Mocking Jay  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 3:31:03pm
Romney alluded to the fact that not all women can stay at home saying, “I love the fact that there are women out there who don’t have a choice and they must go to work and they still have to raise the kids. Thank goodness that we value those people too. And sometimes life isn’t easy for any of us.”

That... that just came out wrong, right? Tell me I'm right.

153 skylarkingtomfoolery  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 3:33:37pm

re: #110 mattand

Being smart doesn't protect you from thinking logically if something challenges a deeply held belief, regardless of evidence

One of the great conundrums of our time is that many conspiracy theorists are well-schooled in logic, clear thinking, and recognizing logical fallacies. There are many conspiracy theorists who are well-educated. Their blind spot, I believe, lies in their inability to fairly and impartially evaluate evidence that runs contrary to the particular conspiracy at hand.

154 allegro  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 3:37:13pm

re: #152 Assemble!

That... that just came out wrong, right? Tell me I'm right.

I've been rolling that one around as well, trying to figure out what she meant because SURELY the meaning of what she actually said must not represent what she really thinks. But by golly, it isn't just one awkwardly worded sentence. I got nothin'.

155 dragonfire1981  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 3:43:37pm

I find myself wishing Romney could find himself a willing Hispanic with the right name as a running mate so the campaign signs would read:

ROMNEY/JESUS 2012

156 dragonfire1981  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 3:44:16pm

And on another (disturbing) note:

Hey, what's this debt collector doing in the ER?

157 Kragar  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 3:44:30pm

Medal of Honor recipient speaks tonight in Coronado

Medal of Honor recipient Dakota Meyer, a young Marine veteran who fought through a vicious firefight in Afghanistan in 2009 to retrieve his comrades, will speak tonight in Coronado. Meyer plans to discuss the impact of war on military service members and treatments available for mental and physical combat wounds.

Meyer is one of several prominent speakers at this year’s Freedom & Recovery conference, which started Monday and concludes Thursday at the Hotel del Coronado.

No word on if Bryan Fischer will show up to address the conference on how Meyer feminized the Medal of Honor.

158 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 3:45:21pm

Whew just on a break at work. Has there been any discussion about this red hot rant from Jon Lovitz? Wow, he blew his stack. F bomb alert...

[Link: itunes.apple.com...]

159 PhillyPretzel  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 3:48:50pm

re: #158 Daniel Ballard

It is news on yahoo!. [Link: search.yahoo.com...]

160 Gus  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 3:50:14pm
161 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 3:50:37pm

re: #159 PhillyPretzel

Yeah, that's where I first saw it. A friend of mine works on that program and at the Jon Lovitz comedy club. I think he will be surprised by the attention, which BTW the club needs. Just maybe not like this.

162 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 3:51:07pm

re: #152 Assemble!

That... that just came out wrong, right? Tell me I'm right.

You're right. We were talking about this thing yesterday when Charles asked if the wingnuts on twitter really believed their own BS. They don't. Think Progress doesn't really believe that Mrs Romney is happy that some mothers are poor. It's all just noise and nonsense.

163 blueraven  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 3:51:19pm

re: #152 Assemble!

That... that just came out wrong, right? Tell me I'm right.

She probably just mis-spoke and stated her position awkwardly. Just like Hilary Rosen. Will it light up the twitterverse? Will they debate the meaning of what she said on CNN, Fox, the Sunday morning talk shows for a week?

164 blueraven  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 3:53:22pm

re: #162 Killgore Trout

You're right. We were talking about this thing yesterday when Charles asked if the wingnuts on twitter really believed their own BS. They don't. Think Progress doesn't really believe that Mrs Romney is happy that some mothers are poor. It's all just noise and nonsense.

Were you as generous with Rosen? I seem to remember you posting something about attacks on Mitts family...

165 Kragar  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 3:55:42pm

Man, I was just about to leave when Dio came on. Have to wait now.

166 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 3:57:16pm

re: #164 blueraven

Were you as generous with Rosen? I seem to remember you posting something about attacks on Mitts family...

Rosen didn't misspeak. She was pretty clear and I think further clarified her point before she was forced to apologize. I disagreed with her but I think I understood what she was saying.

168 Gus  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 3:59:39pm

Wouldn't you know. John Derbyshire didn't really mean what he wrote.

//

169 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 4:00:39pm

re: #164 blueraven

Were you as generous with Rosen? I seem to remember you posting something about attacks on Mitts family...

...and I don't think there's any "win" in the tactic of obsessing about Mrs. Romney. There are just way too many ways it could go wrong. If the criticisms stayed factual and respectful I wouldn't have as much of a problem with it. Lots of bogus stories, word twisting, and rabid derping isn't helpful.

170 blueraven  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 4:02:06pm

re: #166 Killgore Trout

Rosen didn't misspeak. She was pretty clear and I think further clarified her point before she was forced to apologize. I disagreed with her but I think I understood what she was saying.

Yes, she did misspeak. What she meant was that Ms Romney had never worked outside the home and didn't understand the issues of working mothers to the extent of an adviser to a presidential candidate.

171 Gus  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 4:02:34pm

Goal posts. Moving.

172 blueraven  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 4:04:59pm

re: #169 Killgore Trout

...and I don't think there's any "win" in the tactic of obsessing about Mrs. Romney. There are just way too many ways it could go wrong. If the criticisms stayed factual and respectful I wouldn't have as much of a problem with it. Lots of bogus stories, word twisting, and rabid derping isn't helpful.

So far, I haven't see anyone going off on this yet. I'm sure there will be a few, but most people understand that people in the public eye misspeak from time to time.

173 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 4:06:00pm

re: #170 blueraven

Yes, she did misspeak. What she meant was that Ms Romney had never worked outside the home and didn't understand the issues of working mothers to the extent of an adviser to a presidential candidate.

Ah, yes. I see what you mean. I understood the intended meaning of work/employment immediately. It was obvious. However, I objected to the criticisms of how Mrs Romney lives her life and raises her kids. I don't think that's a helpful topic and is better left alone.

174 Mocking Jay  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 4:06:13pm

re: #172 blueraven

So far, I haven't see anyone going off on this yet. I'm sure there will be a few, but most people understand that people in the public eye misspeak from time to time.

I think what she was trying to say was that she loves that women have the option to work available to them? Is that where she was going with that?

175 allegro  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 4:07:52pm

re: #173 Killgore Trout

Ah, yes. I see what you mean. I understood the intended meaning of work/employment immediately. It was obvious. However, I objected to the criticisms of how Mrs Romney lives her life and raises her kids. I don't think that's a helpful topic and is better left alone.

That's another KT strawman. That was never the topic here or elsewhere that I've seen. Neither her choices or mothering ability have even been discussed, least of all criticized.

But you know that.

176 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 4:10:24pm

re: #175 allegro

Sorry, we were having a reasonable and friendly conversation. -1

177 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 4:11:02pm

re: #170 blueraven

Yes, she did misspeak. What she meant was that Ms Romney had never worked outside the home and didn't understand the issues of working mothers to the extent of an adviser to a presidential candidate.

Ann Romney knows just as much about working mothers in America as Mitt Romney knows about huntin' varmints lol

178 blueraven  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 4:11:32pm

re: #173 Killgore Trout

Ah, yes. I see what you mean. I understood the intended meaning of work/employment immediately. It was obvious. However, I objected to the criticisms of how Mrs Romney lives her life and raises her kids. I don't think that's a helpful topic and is better left alone.

Who criticized her life as a stay at home mom? The criticism was directed at Romney not really about Ann. It was about him relying solely upon her as an adviser on women's issues.

179 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 4:11:41pm

re: #174 Assemble!

I think what she was trying to say was that she loves that women have the option to work available to them? Is that where she was going with that?

Probably.

180 allegro  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 4:14:16pm

re: #178 blueraven

Who criticized her life as a stay at home mom? The criticism was directed at Romney not really about Ann. It was about him relying solely upon her as an adviser on women's issues.

Oh dear. Criticism of a strawman argument is now unfriendly.

181 blueraven  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 4:15:53pm

re: #179 Killgore Trout

Probably.

Maybe

182 wrenchwench  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 4:16:19pm

re: #153 skylarkingtomfoolery

Welcome, hatchling.

183 freetoken  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 4:16:47pm

Hmmm... I wonder what Ann Romney would think:

Analyst: Teacher fired over porn acting has case for reinstatement

184 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 4:17:02pm

re: #178 blueraven

Who criticized her life as a stay at home mom? The criticism was directed at Romney not really about Ann. It was about him relying solely upon her as an adviser on women's issues.

I don't think it's fair to invalidate her opinion on women's issues just because she's a stay at home mom. Imagine if a man had said that Mrs Romney's opinions on working mothers was invalid because she was a stay at home mom. It would be terribly insulting. I'm sure Mrs Romney is a decent and intelligent person and her opinions are reasonably well informed and thought out.
I'm also fairly certain that she isn't Mitt's sole source of information about issues regarding working mothers so it's not really politically important. He said something nice about listening to his wife's advice, I don't think it's a big deal.

185 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 4:19:10pm

re: #180 allegro

Oh dear. Criticism of a strawman argument is now unfriendly.

we are all just very concerned, extremely, severely concerned

186 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 4:20:13pm

re: #184 Killgore Trout

I don't think it's fair to invalidate her opinion on women's issues just because she's a stay at home mom.

Nobody is doing that. They are invalidating her opinion, to a great extent, on the issue of women who have to work and be mothers. Because she never had to work and be a mother.

If you're pretending not to understand this, very well, but please remember that playing dumb has the side effect of making you look dumb.

187 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 4:20:42pm

re: #184 Killgore Trout

if you have no experience with a thing, then your opinion about a thing (this thing being mothers that have to work full time and raise children) is simply not that valuable


that's how the world works!

188 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 4:22:40pm

re: #187 windupbird is in the gravity well

Well, it can be valuable, if you put a lot of effort into empathetic understanding, to really put yourself in the other person's shoes and imagine what it must be like for them. That's one thing that I think really turns people off about Mitt Romney; he really seems to never be attempting to extend that empathy, to be making that effort. At best, he seems to puzzle his face while thinking hard about it and then coming to the conclusion that everything could best be solved by cutting back education budgets and deregulating the EPA.

189 allegro  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 4:23:16pm

It isn't about stay at home moms vs. working outside the home moms. It's about CHOICE. It's about resources and having fewer and fewer of those due to an ever growing income inequality and a quickly decreasing middle class with stagnating wages. It's about no longer being able to raise a family and survive on a single income. It's about not being able to get a college education without a lifetime of debt or afford that advantage for your kids. It's about having a basic understanding of these realities, especially for one who wishes to lead the country.

And it's damn important to women and their families.

190 blueraven  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 4:23:52pm

re: #184 Killgore Trout

I don't think it's fair to invalidate her opinion on women's issues just because she's a stay at home mom. Imagine if a man had said that Mrs Romney's opinions on working mothers was invalid because she was a stay at home mom. It would be terribly insulting. I'm sure Mrs Romney is a decent and intelligent person and her opinions are reasonably well informed and thought out.
I'm also fairly certain that she isn't Mitt's sole source of information about issues regarding working mothers so it's not really politically important. He said something nice about listening to his wife's advice, I don't think it's a big deal.

Again..who said her opinion was invalid?

Sure, she has an opinion but she shouldn't be his top adviser on all women's issues, as she has led a pretty different life than most average American women. She may not be in touch with struggling working moms/women. That is really all Rosen said, albeit awkwardly. OK?

191 b_sharp  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 4:24:30pm

re: #152 Assemble!

That... that just came out wrong, right? Tell me I'm right.

“I love the fact that there are women out there who [despite not having] don’t have a choice and they must [are forced to] go to work and they [are still able] still have to [successfully] raise the kids. Thank goodness that we value those people too. And sometimes life isn’t easy for any of us.”

192 b_sharp  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 4:25:15pm

re: #158 Daniel Ballard

Whew just on a break at work. Has there been any discussion about this red hot rant from Jon Lovitz? Wow, he blew his stack. F bomb alert...

[Link: itunes.apple.com...]

Derp does derp, derpy well.

193 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 4:25:23pm

re: #191 Innumerate Numerologist

You gotta love the ultra-rich, hahaha

194 b_sharp  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 4:26:25pm

re: #193 windupbird is in the gravity well

You gotta love the ultra-rich, hahaha

She/he/it is not used to speaking to real people.

195 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 4:26:55pm

re: #191 Innumerate Numerologist

I think that, if that's the interpretation, it was a nice thing for her to say, and it stands in diametric opposition to the GOP platform and the Ryan budget that her husband has endorsed.

Unless by 'value' it's just meant that we smile patronizingly about it but don't actually, you know, do anything to help working mothers.

196 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 4:28:14pm

re: #192 Innumerate Numerologist

Derp does derp, derpy well.

File him under "Victoria Jackson"

197 b_sharp  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 4:30:34pm

re: #195 Obdicut

I think that, if that's the interpretation, it was a nice thing for her to say, and it stands in diametric opposition to the GOP platform and the Ryan budget that her husband has endorsed.

Unless by 'value' it's just meant that we smile patronizingly about it but don't actually, you know, do anything to help working mothers.

Considering the 'value' Romney places on companies he buys, I hope his wife has stayed at least 10 feet away from him so she doesn't catch it.

I'm still trying to figure out why it had to be interpreted.

198 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 4:30:36pm

re: #190 blueraven

She may not be in touch with struggling working moms/women. That is really all Rosen said, albeit awkwardly. OK?

Yes, I understand that's what Rosen said. I still don't think it's a helpful line of attack and the President and Mrs Obama agree that it is unhelpful.

199 b_sharp  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 4:31:02pm

re: #196 windupbird is in the gravity well

File him under "Victoria Jackson"

Sorry, can't do it. The image is just too icky.

200 blueraven  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 4:31:39pm

re: #196 windupbird is in the gravity well

File him under "Victoria Jackson"

Really...that bad? I didn't listen and if he is even close to VJ crazy, I am not inclined to do so.

201 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 4:31:44pm

Mitt Romney has Robert Fucking Bork as an advisor, so that's where his ultrarich white ass stands on women's issues

Ann Romney doesn't matter to Romney's policies, at all, in any way

202 blueraven  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 4:32:22pm

re: #198 Killgore Trout

Yes, I understand that's what Rosen said. I still don't think it's a helpful line of attack and the President and Mrs Obama agree that it is unhelpful.

There was no attack KT.

203 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 4:33:03pm

re: #200 blueraven

Really...that bad? I didn't listen and if he is even close to VJ crazy, I am not inclined to do so.

He's not VJ crazy, more just incoherent pissiness, more just acting out :D I just like the idea of all SNL cast members from the 80's bringing their incoherent rants into the media

204 b_sharp  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 4:34:42pm

re: #201 windupbird is in the gravity well

Mitt Romney has Robert Fucking Bork as an advisor, so that's where his ultrarich white ass stands on women's issues

Ann Romney doesn't matter to Romney's policies, at all, in any way

If Romney becomes your new POTUS, I'd have to say you're Borked.

205 freetoken  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 4:35:03pm

Don McLeroy would not approve:


Evolution scientist elected to American Academy of Arts and Sciences

Maureen Stanton, vice provost for academic affairs and professor of evolution and ecology at the University of California, Davis, has been elected to the prestigious American Academy of Arts and Sciences.

INSTITUTIONALIZED LEFTIST GODLESSNESS!!

206 wrenchwench  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 4:37:19pm

I used to call my old boyfriend on his birthday, but for no particular reason, I got away from the practice. It came around again last Sunday. I googled him to find a number. I didn't find a number, but I found that he has Parkinson's. He's a painter, the artist kind, with a couple of pieces in the permanent collection at the Portland Art Museum. He developed a tremor in his right hand, so he taught himself to paint with his left hand. That was from a three year old news article. Then I found a seven month old interview with him on YouTube. He's developing a tremor in his left hand.

He's thinking about using his feet if he has to.

207 blueraven  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 4:39:06pm

re: #206 wrenchwench

I used to call my old boyfriend on his birthday, but for no particular reason, I got away from the practice. It came around again last Sunday. I googled him to find a number. I didn't find a number, but I found that he has Parkinson's. He's a painter, the artist kind, with a couple of pieces in the permanent collection at the Portland Art Museum. He developed a tremor in his right hand, so he taught himself to paint with his left hand. That was from a three year old news article. Then I found a seven month old interview with him on YouTube. He's developing a tremor in his left hand.

He's thinking about using his feet if he has to.

He sounds like a keeper...the one that got away?

208 b_sharp  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 4:40:08pm

re: #206 wrenchwench

I used to call my old boyfriend on his birthday, but for no particular reason, I got away from the practice. It came around again last Sunday. I googled him to find a number. I didn't find a number, but I found that he has Parkinson's. He's a painter, the artist kind, with a couple of pieces in the permanent collection at the Portland Art Museum. He developed a tremor in his right hand, so he taught himself to paint with his left hand. That was from a three year old news article. Then I found a seven month old interview with him on YouTube. He's developing a tremor in his left hand.

He's thinking about using his feet if he has to.

I was going to make a joke about your old boyfriend, but it sounds like he's a determined, resourceful and motivated kind of guy. It might be nice to get to know him.

209 allegro  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 4:40:10pm

re: #207 blueraven

He sounds like a keeper...the one that got away?

Polyandry is unfortunately illegal.

210 wrenchwench  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 4:40:59pm

re: #207 blueraven

He sounds like a keeper...the one that got away?

He's a sweetie, but you know, life is complicated. I've been with the one that came after him for 27 years. And I'm the one that got away. :)

211 Mocking Jay  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 4:42:10pm

re: #201 windupbird is in the gravity well

Mitt Romney has Robert Fucking Bork as an advisor, so that's where his ultrarich white ass stands on women's issues

Ann Romney doesn't matter to Romney's policies, at all, in any way

Pfft. A little sterilization never hurt anyone...

212 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 4:43:56pm

Now that I think about it the most outrageous thing about Mitt listening to his wife's advice is that it a lie. Mitt's policies, like every other politician's, come from partisan think tanks and high paid lobbyists. At best it sweet white lie being nice to his wife but was probably just pandering an an attempt to appeal to women voters.

213 freetoken  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 4:45:16pm

Mitt Romney, on cusp of GOP nod, to tell voters: ‘A better America begins tonight’

And according to excerpts of an address he’s expected to deliver in New Hampshire this evening, Romney will drive home in the strongest language yet his general-election argument against President Obama.

“To all of the thousands of good and decent Americans I’ve met who want nothing more than a better chance, a fighting chance, to all of you, I have a simple message: Hold on a little longer. A better America begins tonight,” Romney is expected to say.

[...]

“Because he has failed, he will run a campaign of diversions, distractions and distortions,” Romney will say of Obama, according to the prepared remarks. “That kind of campaign may have worked at another place and in a different time. But not here, and not now. It’s still about the economy . . . and we’re not stupid.”

And in keeping with his campaign theme of “restoring America,” Romney will also pledge to return the country to an America that is “fundamentally fair.”

“We will stop the unfairness of urban children being denied access to the good schools of their choice; the unfairness of politicians giving taxpayer money to their friends’ businesses; the unfairness of requiring union workers to contribute to politicians not of their choosing; the unfairness of government workers getting better pay and benefits than the taxpayers they serve; and we will stop the unfairness of one generation passing larger and larger debts on to the next,” he will say.

No to mention the unfairness of taking money from the rich, money which was their birthright after all.

214 Mocking Jay  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 4:46:40pm

re: #212 Killgore Trout

Now that I think about it the most outrageous thing about Mitt listening to his wife's advice is that it a lie. Mitt's policies, like every other politician's, come from partisan think tanks and high paid lobbyists. At best it sweet white lie being nice to his wife but was probably just pandering an an attempt to appeal to women voters.

Wow. You're like the god damn Batman or something. Great work, detective.

215 freetoken  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 4:47:53pm

re: #212 Killgore Trout

Mitt will rescue the high paid lobbyists from the unfairness of their clients pretending that the wives are the important ones.

216 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 4:48:17pm

re: #213 freetoken

the unfairness of government workers getting better pay and benefits than the taxpayers they serve;

Wow. That's pretty fucking nasty. Should no government worker get better pay than any taxpayer?

That is just a calculated, po-faced, intentionally stupid, evil smack at government workers.

Workers who include men and women doing incredibly valuable, and incredibly dangerous jobs.

This is what it's going to be. Romney is running as the anti-government candidate.

217 wrenchwench  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 4:48:20pm

re: #212 Killgore Trout

Now that I think about it the most outrageous thing about Mitt listening to his wife's advice is that it a lie. Mitt's policies, like every other politician's, come from partisan think tanks and high paid lobbyists. At best it sweet white lie being nice to his wife but was probably just pandering an an attempt to appeal to women voters.

That's the part that I think is outrageous. Partly for the pandering and partly for being such a stupid attempt at it.

218 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 4:49:33pm

re: #215 freetoken

Mitt will rescue the high paid lobbyists from the unfairness of their clients pretending that the wives are the important ones.

That reminds me: What ever happened to Obama's plans to limit lobbyists access to the white house?

219 Interesting Times  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 4:50:57pm

re: #216 Obdicut

Wow. That's pretty fucking nasty.

And it's a transparent, disgusting Rovian/Frank-Luntzian attempt to hijack the concept of economic fairness for evil, corporatist, Koch-serving ends.

Durr hurr, taxpayer subsidies for obscenely profitable oil companies is TOTALLY fair! Teachers having a pension is not. Derp.

220 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 4:51:22pm

re: #217 wrenchwench

That's the part that I think is outrageous. Partly for the pandering and partly for being such a stupid attempt at it.

Yeah, I got so caught up in how stupid the mommy wars were and totally didn't notice that it was based on a really stupid lie from Mitt.

221 b_sharp  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 4:51:40pm

re: #216 Obdicut

Wow. That's pretty fucking nasty. Should no government worker get better pay than any taxpayer?

That is just a calculated, po-faced, intentionally stupid, evil smack at government workers.

Workers who include men and women doing incredibly valuable, and incredibly dangerous jobs.

This is what it's going to be. Romney is running as the anti-government candidate.

Sorry, but your one comment is just crying out for adjustment:

That is just a calculated, poo-faced, intentionally stupid, evil smack at government workers.

222 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 4:51:54pm

re: #218 Killgore Trout

That reminds me: What ever happened to Obama's plans to limit lobbyists access to the white house?

He's put up more barriers than any president in recent memory to the revolving door between lobbyists and government work, but there have been significant exceptions.

It's a rather long and complex topic, not really summarizable in a short forum post. Of course, you probably figured that. It's almost as though your question had another purpose other than a request for information.

Sheesh.

223 Mocking Jay  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 4:53:11pm

re: #216 Obdicut

Wow. That's pretty fucking nasty. Should no government worker get better pay than any taxpayer?

That is just a calculated, po-faced, intentionally stupid, evil smack at government workers.

Workers who include men and women doing incredibly valuable, and incredibly dangerous jobs.

This is what it's going to be. Romney is running as the anti-government candidate.

Just imagine what kind of people our government will be able to attract at minimum wage. And they want to complain about government dysfunction now...

224 Mocking Jay  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 4:54:20pm

re: #222 Obdicut

It's almost as though your question had another purpose other than a request for information.

Sheesh.

Another claimant to the caped crusader's mantle!

:P

225 Killgore Trout  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 4:55:20pm

re: #222 Obdicut

He's put up more barriers than any president in recent memory to the revolving door between lobbyists and government work, but there have been significant exceptions.

It's a rather long and complex topic, not really summarizable in a short forum post. Of course, you probably figured that. It's almost as though your question had another purpose other than a request for information.

Sheesh.

Politifact ratings seem pretty mixed must mostly "half true" and "false".

226 b_sharp  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 4:55:22pm

The right here constantly compares civil service wages with the average entry level wage, despite civil servant educational requirements being much higher than the average.

227 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 4:56:26pm

re: #224 Assemble!

I get to be the Dark Knight Returns Batman, all crazy and shit.

Or the Adam West surrealist batman.

"Robin. My belt. Shark... repellent."

228 Mocking Jay  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 4:56:37pm

re: #225 Killgore Trout

Politifact ratings seem pretty mixed must mostly "half true" and "false".

Dude...

Politifact? Really?

229 gwangung  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 4:56:39pm

re: #225 Killgore Trout

Politifact ratings seem pretty mixed must mostly "half true" and "false".

Ugh. Isn't Politifact having problems trying to figure out what's half true and what's false itself?

230 Mocking Jay  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 4:57:16pm

re: #227 Obdicut

I get to be the Dark Knight Returns Batman, all crazy and shit.

Or the Adam West surrealist batman.

"Robin. My belt. Shark... repellent."

So KT's more like... Clooney Batman?

231 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 4:57:54pm

re: #229 gwangung

Ugh. Isn't Politifact having problems trying to figure out what's half true and what's false itself?

They've gone full stupid in their pursuit of the elusive snipe objective ground. There are few things dumber than someone who thinks the truth is normally somewhere in the middle between two sides.

232 b_sharp  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 4:58:19pm

re: #230 Assemble!

So KT's more like... Clooney Batman?

Michael Keaton's over the top Batman was kind of cool.

233 freetoken  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 4:58:40pm

If Romney will wants a better America, he can start here:


Rural Ky. town readies for private prison closure

After a sex scandal at a privately run prison in rural Kentucky, the state cut off the institution's funding and now it's shutting down — and that worries town officials in an impoverished Appalachian community where incarceration meant jobs and economic survival.

With Otter Creek Correctional Center set to close in the coming months, Mike Goeing, who runs Family Drugs of Wheelwright, sees pain ahead for his store and the other few remaining businesses in the town of about 1,200.

"It's definitely going to hurt," he said.

The prison, run by Nashville, Tenn.-based Corrections Corporation of America, is set to close by this summer as Kentucky pulls its inmates out of the facility that was at the center of a sex scandal. It broke in 2009 when inmates accused prison staff of forcing them to trade sexual favors for privileges.

The prison became a casualty of budget cuts and a renewed effort by the state to push more non-violent drug offenders into rehabilitation instead of incarceration.

[...]

People in Wheelwright are hoping for word that another state will step in with a new batch of inmates, reopen the facility and rehire the employees.

"There aren't a large number of businesses here anyway," Goeing told The Associated Press.

[...]

So, the poor people in rural KY would rather have their (allegedly) abusive locals back in the business of sex-slavery private prisons because minimum wage is so glorious.

What would Ann Romney the high paid lobbyists do?

234 Mocking Jay  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 4:58:48pm

re: #231 Obdicut

They've gone full stupid in their pursuit of the elusive snipe objective ground. There are few things dumber than someone who thinks the truth is normally somewhere in the middle between two sides.

If you're Adam West Batman you need to give KT that repellent for the shark he's jumping over as we speak.

235 b_sharp  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 4:59:17pm

re: #231 Obdicut

They've gone full stupid in their pursuit of the elusive snipe objective ground. There are few things dumber than someone who thinks the truth is normally somewhere in the middle between two sides.

I blame a poor probability/logic education.

236 b_sharp  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 5:00:33pm

re: #233 freetoken

If Romney will wants a better America, he can start here:

Rural Ky. town readies for private prison closure

So, the poor people in rural KY would rather have their (allegedly) abusive locals back in the business of sex-slavery private prisons because minimum wage is so glorious.

What would Ann Romney the high paid lobbyists do?

Inmates are bad people who deserve everything they get.

237 Eventual Carrion  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 5:01:47pm

re: #218 Killgore Trout

That reminds me: What ever happened to Obama's plans to limit lobbyists access to the white house?

It got bent over and sodomized by the Citizen United court ruling. Now all foreign nations will have a say in our elections and laws too.

238 Obdicut  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 5:01:52pm

re: #234 Assemble!

If you're Adam West Batman you need to give KT that repellent for the shark he's jumping over as we speak.

Killgore has been doing bunny-hops over chondrichthyes ever since he sanctimoniously decried violence while simultaneously reveling in violence. I still think the best way to view him is as a performance artist.

239 Gus  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 5:02:01pm

re: #236 Innumerate Numerologist

Inmates are bad people who deserve everything they get.

...

You don't like prisons in America trying spending some time in an Arab or Palestinian prison!

240 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 5:03:00pm

Trying the new feature

241 Talking Point Detective  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 5:03:06pm

re: #173 Killgore Trout

Ah, yes. I see what you mean. I understood the intended meaning of work/employment immediately. It was obvious. However, I objected to the criticisms of how Mrs Romney lives her life and raises her kids. I don't think that's a helpful topic and is better left alone.

Again, at one level I'm not unsympathetic to your point here. Going after Romney's better half is useless, and the kind of tactic better left for the right wing.

That said, you seem to be deliberately avoiding how this has essentially been a trumped up issue for a very specific political purpose - to defend Romney's status with women voters.

The point that her "advice" should be viewed in the context of her life experiences is perfectly valid - and that is the point that was originally made; that is the point that has been demagogued by the rightwing, and you're being willfully oblivious to that.

242 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 5:03:37pm

Whoop! Thanks Charles.

(doesn't work on apple products though, correct?)

243 freetoken  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 5:06:16pm

Ala. Senate says no abortion in health exchange

The Alabama Senate has passed a bill to prohibit any insurance plan offered through a health insurance exchange in Alabama from offering coverage for elective abortions.

The bill sponsored by Republican Sen. Greg Reed of Jasper cleared the Senate 30-2 Tuesday and now goes to the House for consideration. Reed got a similar bill through the Senate last year, but it died in the House.

Reed said the federal health care law allows states to opt out of allowing abortion coverage in their insurance exchanges, which would include those purchasing federally subsidized plans and others.

States are supposed to have their exchanges set up by 2014.

A task force created by Gov. Robert Bentley has recommended how an exchange should be established, but the Legislature has not yet approved it.

244 Charles Johnson  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 5:08:10pm

If I didn't already know how Dan Riehl thinks, this would be amazing. I think I should do a post about how Riehl and Dana Loesch have responded after their brain-dead "uppity" smear fell through.

245 blueraven  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 5:08:30pm

re: #216 Obdicut

Wow. That's pretty fucking nasty. Should no government worker get better pay than any taxpayer?

That is just a calculated, po-faced, intentionally stupid, evil smack at government workers.

Workers who include men and women doing incredibly valuable, and incredibly dangerous jobs.

This is what it's going to be. Romney is running as the anti-government candidate.

So...Government workers are not taxpayers?

246 freetoken  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 5:08:33pm

Why there are no elephants roaming Iberia today:

Middle Stone Age Spaniards Ate Elephant Meat and Bone Marrow

Scientists in Spain say elephant meat appears to have been a popular menu item for people living near what is now the capital city of Madrid, 84,000 years ago.


[...]

247 Mocking Jay  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 5:10:30pm

re: #244 Charles Johnson

A man with that much sex on his mind should be wiping his browser history at least three times a day.

248 b_sharp  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 5:12:26pm

re: #247 Assemble!

A man with that much sex on his mind should be wiping his browser history at least three times a day.

He prolly uses Google Chrome's incognito window.

249 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 5:12:55pm

Metta, Metta, Metta.

He's regretting this big time.

250 Mocking Jay  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 5:13:29pm

re: #248 Innumerate Numerologist

He prolly uses Google Chrome's incognito window.

I gave you an upding for knowing what that is, but I think you overestimate Riehl.

251 b_sharp  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 5:14:04pm

re: #249 Stanley Sea's rule of law

[Embedded content] Metta, Metta, Metta.

He's regretting this big time.

It's so life like, it's almost like being there.

252 Kragar  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 5:17:04pm

Bryan Fischer Stumped: Unable To Explain How John Bolton ‘Did A Great Job’ With ‘Gay Activist’ By His Side

when CNN host Kyra Phillips pointed out that Grenell served at the pleasure of conservative Bolton, Fischer found himself in the awkward position of defending Bolton’s tenure while condemning his chief spokesperson:

PHILLIPS: Did you think John Bolton did a good job when he was U.S. ambassador to the U.N.? [...]

FISCHER: He did a great job.

PHILLIPS: Okay. Grenell was his spokesperson….Bryan, I just thought that was interesting, you thought Bolton did a great job, and Grenell was his spokesperson.

FISCHER: Well, the point here is that personnel is policy. Everybody in D.C. says that. Personnel is policy. When Governor Romney picks somebody who is an activist homosexual and puts him in a prominent position, he’s sending a shout out, it seems to me, to the homosexual lobby.

253 b_sharp  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 5:18:27pm

re: #252 Kragar

Bryan Fischer Stumped: Unable To Explain How John Bolton ‘Did A Great Job’ With ‘Gay Activist’ By His Side

"When Governor Romney picks somebody who is an activist homosexual and puts him in a prominent position, he’s sending a shout out, it seems to me, to the homosexual lobby."

So Fucking What?

254 b_sharp  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 5:20:17pm

re: #252 Kragar

Bryan Fischer Stumped: Unable To Explain How John Bolton ‘Did A Great Job’ With ‘Gay Activist’ By His Side

Tell Fischer to watch 'Smash'. He'll get to see men kissing women, women kissing women, men kissing men and everybody kissing ass.

255 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 5:23:49pm

re: #253 Innumerate Numerologist

So Fucking What?

Bolton is still an insane warmonger who we want NO WHERE NEAR our foreign policy.

That in itself scares the shit out of me -n- Mitt.

256 Lidane  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 5:26:57pm

re: #253 Innumerate Numerologist

So Fucking What?

Seriously. Is it that bad to treat a gay person like a normal human being?

He seems to have this image that all gays and lesbians are effeminate, limp wristed twinks or drag queens or that they fit into the fey stereotypes about them. Guys like Fischer keep forgetting about gays like these who can whip your ass before going home to their man.

257 b_sharp  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 5:29:19pm

re: #256 Lidane

Seriously. Is it that bad to treat a gay person like a normal human being?

He seems to have this image that all gays and lesbians are effeminate, limp wristed twinks or drag queens or that they fit into the fey stereotypes about them. Guys like Fischer keep forgetting about gays like these who can whip your ass before going home to their man.

I still get a kick out of that picture, it's so ... California. (Die Hard ref).

258 Kragar  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 5:30:19pm

re: #255 Stanley Sea's rule of law

Bolton is still an insane warmonger who we want NO WHERE NEAR our foreign policy.

That in itself scares the shit out of me -n- Mitt.

Insane warmongers are just fine.

Gay insane warmongers are right out.

259 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 5:31:10pm

re: #256 Lidane

Seriously. Is it that bad to treat a gay person like a normal human being?

He seems to have this image that all gays and lesbians are effeminate, limp wristed twinks or drag queens or that they fit into the fey stereotypes about them. Guys like Fischer keep forgetting about gays like these who can whip your ass before going home to their man.

Isn't the gay Romney dude a misogynist? Bad peeps are bad peeps.

260 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 5:31:59pm

re: #257 Innumerate Numerologist

I still get a kick out of that picture, it's so ... California. (Die Hard ref).

I see an Officer and a Gentleman.

261 freetoken  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 5:33:09pm

Death Valley's 113°: hottest April temperature on record in U.S.

and

Heat wave shifts to central US -- drought-hit West Texas in the crosshairs

The heat wave that baked the Southwest the previous two days is shifting to the central U.S.

Starting Tuesday, highs will reach into the 80s from Texas all the way up to the border with Canada, weather.com reported.


"Over 30 locations may tie or set new daily record highs Tuesday in the Rockies and Plains," it added, and some areas as far north as Nebraska could reach into the 90s.
On Wednesday, West Texas will get blasted by triple-digit heat, forecasters said, worsening the prolonged drought that area has experienced. Midland will feel some of the worst of the heat.

"It looks like we're going to break the record" for an April 25, National Weather Service forecaster Jack Ciccone of the Midland office told msnbc.com. The forecast is for 101 degrees Fahrenheit, 3 degrees above the existing record set in 1996.

[...]

262 Artist  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 5:33:17pm

re: #256 Lidane

Seriously. Is it that bad to treat a gay person like a normal human being?

Yes, for according to them, gays are not human beings.

263 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 5:33:55pm

Oh Ann, be you here today...

264 Lidane  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 5:34:20pm

re: #259 Stanley Sea's rule of law

Isn't the gay Romney dude a misogynist? Bad peeps are bad peeps.

That's the thing -- Grenell's a douche for reasons that have nothing to do with him being gay, but that's all Fischer is focused on. Never mind his raging sexism and misogyny, no sir! It's the fact that he's gay that makes him a problem. WTF.

265 Kragar  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 5:36:05pm

re: #264 Lidane

That's the thing -- Grenell's a douche for reasons that have nothing to do with him being gay, but that's all Fischer is focused on. Never mind his raging sexism and misogyny, no sir! It's the fact that he's gay that makes him a problem. WTF.

Bryan can literally agree with 99% of what someone says, but if that 1% disagreement is over homosexuality or abortion, then they become the spawn of Satan who must be cast down into the pit.

266 Lidane  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 5:36:42pm

re: #263 Stanley Sea's rule of law

[Embedded content] Oh Ann, be you here today...

God, I miss Ann Richards so much. She and Molly Ivins were my political role models here in Texas and there hasn't been anyone else who comes close since they both died. :(

267 palomino  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 5:39:44pm

re: #261 freetoken

Death Valley's 113°: hottest April temperature on record in U.S.

and

Heat wave shifts to central US -- drought-hit West Texas in the crosshairs

I know TX quite well, having spent half my life there. It will take 1,000 degree temps (for days on end) before the majority of people in the state admit AGW exists. Oil runs through their veins, and unfortunately a lot of them don't take kindly to outsiders with their fancy numbers and charts.

268 engineer cat  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 5:41:09pm

what is it with Texas School Books and bad things?

269 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 5:41:24pm

re: #264 Lidane

That's the thing -- Grenell's a douche for reasons that have nothing to do with him being gay, but that's all Fischer is focused on. Never mind his raging sexism and misogyny, no sir! It's the fact that he's gay that makes him a problem. WTF.

We don't count to Fischer. We all know that. Dude is horrible.

270 engineer cat  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 5:42:58pm

Middle Stone Age Spaniards Ate Elephant Meat and Bone Marrow

Scientists in Spain say elephant meat appears to have been a popular menu item for people living near what is now the capital city of Madrid, 84,000 years ago.

going by the date it would neanderthals they'd be talking about

although i often feel pretty middle stoned age mself these days...

271 Kragar  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 5:44:23pm

re: #270 engineer cat

Middle Stone Age Spaniards Ate Elephant Meat and Bone Marrow

Scientists in Spain say elephant meat appears to have been a popular menu item for people living near what is now the capital city of Madrid, 84,000 years ago.

going by the date it would neanderthals they'd be talking about

although i often feel pretty middle stoned age mself these days...

4/20 was last week.

272 b_sharp  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 5:44:31pm

re: #270 engineer cat

Middle Stone Age Spaniards Ate Elephant Meat and Bone Marrow

Scientists in Spain say elephant meat appears to have been a popular menu item for people living near what is now the capital city of Madrid, 84,000 years ago.

going by the date it would neanderthals they'd be talking about

although i often feel pretty middle stoned age mself these days...

No sapiens in Spain 84000 year ago?

273 freetoken  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 5:45:12pm

re: #270 engineer cat

Yes, most likely Neanderthals.

274 Kragar  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 5:49:11pm

More Mexicans Are Now Leaving The U.S. Than Entering

Tighter borders and tougher immigrations law the cause? Not quite the case.

The report notes several factors that are likely behind the change including tighter borders, including a weakened U.S. economy and a rise in deportations. But most interesting are two factors that may indicate that the trend may be lasting. First, the birthrate in Mexico has dropped. Between 1960 and 2009, the average Mexican woman went from having nine children to just two. As such the Mexican population has dropped. Second, the Mexican economy has improved. With a relatively strong economy, there is less incentive for citizens to emigrate.

For years, the U.S. immigration debate has been built around an assumption that there are large numbers of Mexican nationals trying to move into the U.S. — legally and illegally. This report suggests that this assumption may need to be re-evaluated. As Princeton Professor Douglas Massey, who co-directs the Mexican Migration Project, told the Washington Post, “I think the massive boom in Mexican immigration is over and I don’t think it will ever return to the numbers we saw in the 1990s and 2000s.”

275 engineer cat  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 5:49:53pm

re: #272 Innumerate Numerologist

No sapiens in Spain 84000 year ago?

no evidence for sapiens sapiens anywhere in europe before 45000 bc, and they are thought to have arrived via the middle east altho it's not impossible that some came around from africa the other way

276 freetoken  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 5:51:15pm

re: #272 Innumerate Numerologist

No sapiens in Spain 84000 year ago?

Well, this gets back to the topic of the thread, evolution.

Take, for example, this headline today from a story that's been buzzing around for a week:
Genetic Survey Shows Polar Bears Evolved Far Earlier Than Previously Recognized

Notice how VOA uses the past tense 'evolved'.

A Population of organisms is continually evolving, as long as it is reproducing.

In reality, Polar Bears are still evolving (and will probably be driven to extinction by you and me).

The genus Homo has had very many different populations that we now know have interbred.

In the world of systematic biology the "lumpers" vs. the "splitters" is a long battle. I remain perplexed why some people want to split species (a contentiously defined termed) of closely related populations that can interbreed, though I realize there are real differences between populations.

Anyway, getting to your question, AFAIK, no one places H. sapiens in Iberia at this time.

277 Charles Johnson  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 5:55:41pm

Finally got my new Epson Workforce 845 set up and configured and rockin' the hard copy. This printer is really fast.

A great feature: two paper trays. By tweaking various settings, I can use one tray for envelope printing and one for other jobs, and control it from whichever computer I happen to be working at, instead of having to push a button on the printer. I had to hunt around a little to figure out how to make this work reliably, but now it's copasetic.

And all nice and wireless.

278 engineer cat  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 5:55:45pm

re: #276 freetoken

but what about the bipolar bears?

< pedant on >

technically, neanderthals are homo sapiens neanderthalensis, and we us uns are homo sapiens sapiens

< /pedant off >

279 Kragar  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 5:57:18pm

re: #278 engineer cat

but what about the bipolar bears?

< pedant on >

technically, neanderthals are homo sapiens neanderthalensis, and we us uns are homo sapiens sapiens

< /pedant off >

Neanderthals had no chance in the long run, being the source of the ginger menace.

280 palomino  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 6:01:28pm

re: #274 Kragar

More Mexicans Are Now Leaving The U.S. Than Entering

Tighter borders and tougher immigrations law the cause? Not quite the case.

I wonder how that birthrate dropped so markedly. Could it be that Catholic women in Mexico, just as in the US, use birth control and sometimes even have abortions (which is legal in parts of Mexico)?

281 engineer cat  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 6:01:41pm

re: #279 Kragar

Neanderthals had no chance in the long run, being the source of the ginger menace.

i can't decide whether i like ginger or maryanne better

282 jaunte  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 6:03:39pm

Greetings from Terre Haute, Indiana*, where I'm visiting a daughter and grandson.

*Home of slow internet connection.
**Also home to the Lackawanna Six, Randall "Ismail" Royer, Enaam Arnaout, Rafil A. Dhafir, "American Taliban" John Walker Lindh, and Hal Turner.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

283 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 6:04:17pm

Hey all!

Needs a caption.

How has your day been?

284 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 6:06:44pm

What fetch looks like from the water angle.

VERY AWESOME photos!

285 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 6:12:06pm

Women Are Watching --Migration to Mitt

286 engineer cat  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 6:12:18pm

re: #284 ggt

What fetch looks like from the water angle.

VERY AWESOME photos!

those are some motherfucking funny pictures WHAT???

287 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 6:12:46pm

re: #286 engineer cat

those are some motherfucking funny pictures WHAT???

Some of those teeth pics are rather sobering as well!

288 Eventual Carrion  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 6:17:54pm

re: #283 ggt

Hey all!

Needs a caption.

How has your day been?

"I told you there was too much bleach in his bath water"

289 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 6:54:30pm

re: #238 Obdicut

Killgore has been doing bunny-hops over chondrichthyes ever since he sanctimoniously decried violence while simultaneously reveling in violence. I still think the best way to view him is as a performance artist.

He could just to leading up to the Kangaroo Hop of course.

Youtube Video
290 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 7:57:14pm

re: #136 Kragar

Women’s Prayer Group Praying That the Women at MRFF All Get Incurable Breast Cancer

Because nothing shows Christian love like praying for someone to get cancer.

I've just realized that these are the people who would not understand the sarcasm behind Mark Twain's "War Prayer". They probably pray that routinely.

291 CriticalDragon1177  Tue, Apr 24, 2012 7:58:41pm

Charles Johnson

We're in complete agreement here. I fear for the future of our children because of people like Don McLeroy. As far as I'm concerned he has no business calling himself a skeptic so long as he doesn't accept evolution. As far as I'm concerned he's a denier, not a skeptic. A skeptic is a critical thinker and he's no critical thinker. I wish there were fewer people in the Republican party like him right now. Out nation would be better off.


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