1 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, May 6, 2012 9:21:18pm

Oh good, a whole new thread!

I got distracted on the last one and it is so much easier to start fresh than to catch-up on 60+ posts.

How is everyone tonite?

2 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, May 6, 2012 9:24:22pm

Now, after watching the video, I want to go back to Hawaii. REAL BAD!

3 freetoken  Sun, May 6, 2012 9:43:31pm

Kevin Drum reminds me why I pay him no attention: Did Jesus Exist?

Via Andrew Sullivan, I just read a month-old post by Jerry Coyne about a fight between two academics over the question of the historical existence of Jesus. Coyne comments:

I have been a bit baffled about why this matter evokes such strong feelings, especially among atheists. Since we all admit that there’s no evidence that Jesus was the son of God, did miracles, was resurrected or born of a virgin, and died for our sins, does it really matter so much if he’s based on a historical person? Why does this evoke such strong feelings, and such acrimonious arguments, from atheists?

Perhaps some of our concern comes from this: if we can show that there’s no historical Jesus, then the myth of Christianity tumbles down. That is, it’s no so much about convincing ourselves about the non-historicity of Jesus as convincing Christians.

Regardless of anything else, I don't think Coyne's argument holds water. Surely there can't be too many atheists foolish enough to think they're likely to convince their Christian friends that Jesus didn't exist, no matter what the evidence is or isn't? That would require a pretty severe detachment from reality.

[...]

Firstly, Kevin is late to the party. Secondly, he misses Coyne's point (that there might be something to salvage from all this brouhaha). Thirdly, Kevin want's to dismiss the importance of the whole issue (read the full entry) as if it isn't important.

But, it's important to most of the people in our culture, and by default then it becomes important to our society.

Finally, his commenters only prove what Ehrman claims - that most people writing on this topic don't know what they are writing about.

I only came across Drum's piece given my search to follow up to the Ehrman DJE debate, coincidentally while searching Mother Jones in light of the comment downstairs about a podcast Charles did.

Generally speaking, I'm less than impressed by so much of the popular media that wants to declare itself "liberal" to feel good about itself. Substance still matters.

4 freetoken  Sun, May 6, 2012 10:00:08pm

From one of our client states in the Persian Gulf:


Bahraini human rights activist arrested

A prominent Bahraini human rights activist has been arrested upon his return to the Persian Gulf kingdom from Lebanon, the government and an activist group said Sunday.

Nabeel Rajab, director of the Gulf Center for Human Rights and president of the Bahrain Center for Human Rights, was arrested late Saturday when he arrived at the airport, according to a tweet from Mohammed al-Maskati, a fellow human rights activist.

The Interior Ministry said in a posting on its website that Rajab was "detained under suspicion of committing several punishable crimes," while the Information Affairs Authority said he is facing charges of "inciting illegal activities and defamation."

Rajab appeared before a court on charges of "inciting illegal rallies and marches online by using soical media networks," the Information Affairs Authority said in a statement.

[...]

Oh no, social media networks.

5 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, May 6, 2012 10:09:24pm

G'night all. Till the morrow.

6 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, May 6, 2012 10:15:07pm

Gives Us Each Day our Daily T-Shirt Rant

Thanks for your patience and as always, share if you like.

7 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, May 6, 2012 10:21:30pm

Nytol!

8 freetoken  Sun, May 6, 2012 10:33:52pm
9 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, May 6, 2012 10:40:45pm

re: #6 ggt

Gives Us Each Day our Daily T-Shirt Rant

Thanks for your patience and as always, share if you like.

That's a good shirt & yes, it's true, but that said, as a boy, I have other issues with Rome and it's pretense to the magisterium.

It gets hard, sometimes, explaining the difference between Rome & Canterbury especially when one is as happily in the hyper liberal branch of the Episcopal Church's Anglo-Catholic ritual lovers as I am. Thank you, lord, for smells & bells...

Now off to bed for me, for real :)

10 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Sun, May 6, 2012 11:58:08pm

Gahh...the cost of insurance in Florida is getting ridiculous...grumble, mutter, sigh... :(

11 Varek Raith  Mon, May 7, 2012 12:16:43am
12 Varek Raith  Mon, May 7, 2012 12:22:46am

[Link: www.rawstory.com...]

Lol.

13 sagehen  Mon, May 7, 2012 1:08:32am

There was an Irish Arts Festival in my park today, and I saw the cutest thing -- a dance group of little black and hispanic girls from P.S. 59 in the Bronx. (there's a couple of boys in the group, but it's mostly girls). They've performed at the White House (St Patrick's Day a couple of years ago), they're fundraising now to try to go to Ireland, added a couple of hip-hop moves to the routine...

(the tall white woman dancing with them is their teacher; she's from Dublin, only been in this country a few years)

14 researchok  Mon, May 7, 2012 1:22:59am

Morning, all

15 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 7, 2012 2:11:17am

re: #13 sagehen

There was an Irish Arts Festival in my park today, and I saw the cutest thing -- a dance group of little black and hispanic girls from P.S. 59 in the Bronx. (there's a couple of boys in the group, but it's mostly girls). They've performed at the White House (St Patrick's Day a couple of years ago), they're fundraising now to try to go to Ireland, added a couple of hip-hop moves to the routine...

(the tall white woman dancing with them is their teacher; she's from Dublin, only been in this country a few years)

[Embedded content]

God love 'em, that's what made America great.

Intercultural sharing, I mean, not hopping up and down wearing an outfit with knotwork on it, although that last doesn't hurt at all, at all.

They look terrific.

16 ReamWorks SKG  Mon, May 7, 2012 2:30:23am

Back in CA after a week in Israel (preceded by a week in Spain) and seriously jet-lagged.

What did I miss? (Someone already informed me that Snooki is now President.)

17 Obdicut  Mon, May 7, 2012 2:33:21am

re: #16 ReamWorks SKG

Bats in the belfry are now the official national bird.

18 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, May 7, 2012 3:08:10am

Lotsa gnashing of the teeth over Heartlandgate:

[Link: climateaudit.org...]

19 Obdicut  Mon, May 7, 2012 3:14:43am

re: #18 May Day! May Day!

Heh. Still rather weak tea-- "Unless you suspend the campaign immediately", rather than, "You've crossed the line, so I'm disassociating with you."

20 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, May 7, 2012 3:20:15am

Also, wasn't it just a few months ago when everybody and their dog assured anyone willing to listen that they do accept the global warming, they're only skeptical of the anthropogenic part, that Richard Muller et al.'s study was a big strawman since nobody denies that temps are rising?

Then bam! You accept the GW, you're a Manson fan!

21 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, May 7, 2012 3:21:59am

Also: Lubos Motl is an internet psychopath.

22 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, May 7, 2012 3:23:50am

re: #21 May Day! May Day!

Also: Lubos Motl is an internet psychopath.

Case in point:

This collection of villains is far from complete and it already suggests something. Correct me if I am wrong but I think that Anders Breivik is the only "almost peer" of those people who is a staunch global warming skeptic. If you realize that the numbers of alarmists and skeptics in the world are comparable, you must agree that the alarmists are hugely overrepresented among the villains. In some sense, I feel some satisfaction that Breivik has changed the image of skeptics or rightwingers as defenseless losers who are going to be whipped off the surface of the globe.

23 Eventual Carrion  Mon, May 7, 2012 5:17:42am

No comments for almost 2 hours, must have been a wild night and everyone sleeping it off.

24 sagehen  Mon, May 7, 2012 5:19:52am

"I always hear 'punch me in the face' when you're speaking, but it's usually subtext."

25 sagehen  Mon, May 7, 2012 5:28:46am

"How many times did he fall out of the window?"


(this really was an awesome episode. I have to bring the happy now, cause in two weeks they're going to make me cry).

26 Gus  Mon, May 7, 2012 5:34:31am

"...if God's willing."

Heh. Another theocrat.

Mornin'.

27 Gus  Mon, May 7, 2012 5:38:29am
28 Amory Blaine  Mon, May 7, 2012 5:54:58am

Flatulent Global Warming?

29 Gus  Mon, May 7, 2012 5:56:49am

re: #28 Amory Blaine

Flatulent Global Warming?

Or "fart."

30 Gus  Mon, May 7, 2012 6:01:34am

Sure is slow. Considering what's coming next I think I'll get even slower on my end.

31 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, May 7, 2012 6:42:06am

It's morning and the birds are singing.

UGH!

You?

32 iossarian  Mon, May 7, 2012 6:44:29am

Show trials in the US:

[Link: www.bbc.co.uk...]

Our correspondent Steve Kingstone, who is attending the tribunal, says that under court rules the lawyers are forbidden from discussing torture with their clients.

What a farce.

And with that, I'm out for a while...

33 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, May 7, 2012 6:45:07am

re: #32 iossarian

Show trials in the US:

[Link: www.bbc.co.uk...]

What a farce.

And with that, I'm out for a while...

HA! I thought you were going to tell us about a dog.

I live a sheltered life.

34 Only The Lurker Knows  Mon, May 7, 2012 6:47:08am

Morning Lizards.

35 sattv4u2  Mon, May 7, 2012 6:47:55am

re: #34 Bubblehead II

Morning Lizards.

Why do you hate afternoon and evening lizards?
/

36 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, May 7, 2012 6:49:58am


Legal Fake Pot Scarier Than Illegal Drugs

For those who think marijuana and prescription pills are a parent's biggest worry, Washington Post columnist Colbert I. King says there's a new legal drug of choice. Called K2 or "Kush," the drug has a risk of "anxiety attacks, convulsions, fast heart rates and raised blood pressure" and can be purchased at your local gas station.

. . .

K2, Kush, Fake Weed, Spice, Blaze and Red X Dawn are only some of the brand names of "fake pot" sold at retail outlets in the United States and online, according to the Drug Enforcement Administration's Washington bureau spokesman, Jeffrey Scott. A Feb. 29 DEA news release explained the common denominator: These are smokeable herbal products consisting of plant material that has been coated with research chemicals that claim to mimic THC, the active ingredient in marijuana.

...

The DEA cites emergency-room physicians’ reports of individuals who have ingested K2 and other fake-pot drugs experiencing convulsions, vomiting, disorientation and anxiety attacks. Federal investigators are seeking manufacturers and suppliers of these drugs; their focus is not on retail outlets like those I visited.

37 Shropshire_Slasher  Mon, May 7, 2012 6:50:45am

re: #36 ggt

Sounds like a good time to me!!!
/

38 sattv4u2  Mon, May 7, 2012 6:58:45am

re: #31 ggt

It's morning and the birds are singing.

UGH!

You?

It's morning, I'm not a bird nor am I singing

1 outta 3 !

39 Only The Lurker Knows  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:01:30am

re: #35 sattv4u2

Why do you hate afternoon and evening lizards?
/

Don't, but since I generally get up at 0400 MST, the Morning Lizards are the ones I generally see/interact with. Sometimes I am able to get on after work, so I occasionally see the Evening Lizards. This week, I am on vacation, so I get to spend the entire day here, when I am not busy doing the various vacation Honey Do's

40 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:02:24am

re: #39 Bubblehead II

Don't, but since I generally get up at 0400 MST, the Morning Lizards are the ones I generally see/interact with. Sometimes I am able to get on after work, so I occasionally see the Evening Lizards. This week, I am on vacation, so I get to spend the entire day here, when I am not busy doing the various vacation Honey Do's

I've been able to check-in at various times during the day lately. It's nice to see nics I don't normally see on the late night.

41 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:07:02am
42 Only The Lurker Knows  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:08:18am

re: #36 ggt

They just got done popping a couple stores here in Idaho for selling Spice.

Burley, Idaho (KMVT-TV) After a year–long investigation, two area businesses are facing charges for selling spice. On Thursday, the Minidoka and Cassia County Sheriff's offices served search warrants at Kerb's Oil and the One Stop Shop in Burley.

100,000 dollars worth of spice taken off the streets from Kerb's Oil in Burley.

43 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:19:37am

Good morning lizards!

The garden is cooking now. I planted 29 tomato and 19 pepper plants yesterday. As long as the rabbits and deer keep away this should be a great
summer.

44 Only The Lurker Knows  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:28:06am

re: #43 NJDhockeyfan

Still waiting for the Temp to stabilize here in Idaho. Had a freeze warning Saturday night/Sunday morning. Got down to 28. We're only planting a couple of plants this year. One Tomato and one Cucumber. The Chives from last year survived the winter and are doing well. Already have cut them back 3 times.

45 Killgore Trout  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:31:36am

re: #43 NJDhockeyfan

Good morning lizards!

The garden is cooking now. I planted 29 tomato and 19 pepper plants yesterday. As long as the rabbits and deer keep away this should be a great
summer.

I'm almost ready to start moving stuff outdoors. We have a few more cold nights in store this week so I'm holding off a few more days. The greenhouse is getting really crowded and the tomatoes and peppers are growing like crazy!

46 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:36:06am

re: #44 Bubblehead II

Still waiting for the Temp to stabilize here in Idaho. Had a freeze warning Saturday night/Sunday morning. Got down to 28. We're only planting a couple of plants this year. One Tomato and one Cucumber. The Chives from last year survived the winter and are doing well. Already have cut them back 3 times.

I had a hard time finding Roma tomatoes yesterday. My wife eventually found some. All the local places were out.

Cukes, Corn, Zucchini, and Squash are next. Lettuce, spinach, broccoli, and cabbage are growing like weeds. As long as we don't have a blazing hot summer like last summer this should be an awesome veggie year.

47 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:39:35am

Oh yeah, we got peas coming up too. String beans will be planted by the weekend. I might try to grow artichokes and Okra if I can find some plants.

48 Killgore Trout  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:48:23am

re: #47 NJDhockeyfan

Oh yeah, we got peas coming up too. String beans will be planted by the weekend. I might try to grow artichokes and Okra if I can find some plants.

I have done artichokes before. They're really easy and a started plant will set bulbs the first year. They die back in the fall but if you leave the roots in place they'll pop back in in late winter/early spring.

49 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:49:53am

Coffee, Killgore, can you grow coffee?

50 Decatur Deb  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:54:25am

The hoophouse has been converted from winter cover to bird-netting. Tomatoes are starting to form, as well as squash and peppers. The last of the cool-weather greens are just over, and the empty space is prepped for the beans that are still in pots. Zucchini and cukes are in cages, and sweet potatoes are growing in containers this year. The asparagus got away from us while we were traveling, and most went to 4-6' stalks with blossoms. Would like to find some artichockes, but they're not common here. I started most plants fro seed, but buy potted replacements if I have a casualty. The 240 sq ft garden is 75% fabric-mulched at the moment, and an experimental rainbarrel is connected to the irrigation. I just load the barrel from hose if we don't get rain, to give the chlorine a chance to gas off.

51 Only The Lurker Knows  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:55:21am

re: #46 NJDhockeyfan

Well since we don't really have all that much room, we container garden. This year the Wife picked up a Patio Tomato plant and a Marketmore 76 Cucumber plant. She also picked up some Lavender and Tricolored Sage that she plans on putting into the same pots. That leaves me with 2 empty post to plant something else, but I haven't decided on what I want to put into them, yet.

BTW, watering is done using a drip system, but I may change them over to a spray type emitter as I wasn't to happy with last years results.

52 Killgore Trout  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:55:47am

re: #49 ggt

Coffee, Killgore, can you grow coffee?

You can if you live in a warm enough climate. I've seen coffee plants in the nurseries but most people try them as house plants. Probably not viable for the daily coffee needs. Tea, however is pretty easy. You can grow it outdoors in most climates and 1-2 plants per person will take care of your daily tea needs all year round.

53 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:56:13am

re: #52 Killgore Trout

You can if you live in a warm enough climate. I've seen coffee plants in the nurseries but most people try them as house plants. Probably not viable for the daily coffee needs. Tea, however is pretty easy. You can grow it outdoors in most climates and 1-2 plants per person will take care of your daily tea needs all year round.

NO TEA, Coffee!

54 Killgore Trout  Mon, May 7, 2012 7:57:55am

re: #50 Decatur Deb

I've been daisy chaining rain barrels together and have about 250 gallons stored. It might be enough to get me through the summer.

55 Decatur Deb  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:00:12am

re: #51 Bubblehead II

Well since we don't really have all that much room, we container garden. This year the Wife picked up a Patio Tomato plant and a Marketmore 76 Cucumber plant. She also picked up some Lavender and Tricolored Sage that she plans on putting into the same pots. That leaves me with 2 empty post to plant something else, but I haven't decided on what I want to put into them, yet.

BTW, watering is done using a drip system, but I may change them over to a spray type emitter as I wasn't to happy with last years results.

We don't use a real drip system (with emitters) just 1/8" tubing manifolded to each plant from a 1/2" pvc pipe backbone. In years past we fed it from hosehold line pressure, are trying the rainbarrel buffer with about 4-6' of head this time.

56 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:02:09am

Depending on the Economy and the price of tea in Outer Andremda . . .

The Critical 2012 Swing States

By David Paul Kuhn

We don't know what the economy will look like by autumn 2012. We don't know the Republican nominee. But we already know the broad battlefield. And, as we long have known, it will not look like 2008.

It's the swing states that decide the outcome for every state. States like Texas and California are sure things. Thus the red and blue states are at the mercy of the purple states.

The big five 2012 states: Florida, Ohio, Virginia, Wisconsin and Colorado. States like Nevada, Pennsylvania, Minnesota and Iowa fall in line soon after. The lineup could slightly shift. The GOP ticket might impact it. State polling will eventually inform the list.

57 Decatur Deb  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:02:55am

re: #54 Killgore Trout

I've been daisy chaining rain barrels together and have about 250 gallons stored. It might be enough to get me through the summer.

Was planning to stack or daisy-chain, but we've been getting so little rain that the catch is only about one barrel each time. One barrel every day or so seems to keep the growing plants happy.

58 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:04:51am

If I ever got a property in which I could have a garden, I'd have to do the greenouse thing with raised beds --really raised.

I don't think my back could handle a tradtional garden anymore. Although I used to love breaking-up the soil with a pitchfork!

59 Decatur Deb  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:05:00am

re: #54 Killgore Trout

I've been daisy chaining rain barrels together and have about 250 gallons stored. It might be enough to get me through the summer.

Have you looked at ICB containers? Clean ones go for about $150 here.

Image: 1000liter_IBC_tank_container_for_chemicals.jpg

60 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:07:02am

Science is soooo kewl!

Magnetic bacteria may be building future bio-computers

Using viruses to do our manufacturing
Magnet-making bacteria may be building biological computers of the future, researchers have said.

61 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:08:15am

re: #60 ggt

Science is sooo kewl!

Sounds like something out of a sci-fi movie.

62 Decatur Deb  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:08:55am

re: #58 ggt

If I ever got a property in which I could have a garden, I'd have to do the greenouse thing with raised beds --really raised.

I don't think my back could handle a tradtional garden anymore. Although I used to love breaking-up the soil with a pitchfork!

There's a lot of action on the webs about container gardening. There are people happy with very cheap woven plastic shopping-bag containers.

63 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:09:00am

re: #61 NJDhockeyfan

Sounds like something out of a sci-fi movie.

I KNOW!!!!!

64 Only The Lurker Knows  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:10:14am

re: #55 Decatur Deb

The water here comes from a well (not City) so I just basically added another valve the the sprinkler system manifold and use 1/18 tubing to the emitters. Set the timer and let it go. This year, I moved two of the pots and now have to rerun the lines. Will probably come off of one of the risers with an adapter before it hits the head.

65 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:11:00am

WHY?

S Korea 'to target powdered human flesh capsules'

The capsules containing the powdered flesh were found both in luggage and in the post

South Korea says it will increase customs inspections targeting capsules containing powdered human flesh.

The Korea Customs Service said it had found almost 17,500 of the capsules being smuggled into the country from China since August 2011.

The powdered flesh, which officials said came from dead babies and foetuses, is reportedly thought by some to cure disease and boost stamina.

But officials said the capsules were full of bacteria and a health risk.

"It was confirmed those capsules contain materials harmful to the human body, such as super bacteria. We need to take tougher measures to protect public health," a customs official was quoted as saying by the Korea Times.

66 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:12:44am

re: #65 ggt

How long before the Israelis are blamed for that?

67 Decatur Deb  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:12:59am

re: #64 Bubblehead II

The water here comes from a well (not City) so I just basically added another valve the the sprinkler system manifold and use 1/18 tubing to the emitters. Set the timer and let it go. This year, I moved two of the pots and now have to rerun the lines. Will probably come off of one of the risers with an adapter before it hits the head.

Sounds like it should have worked. What didn't you like about it? Our prolonged drought and disease spread argued against sprays here.

68 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:13:34am

boys being boys?

Engineers launch artificial earthquakes at 'hospital'

The five-storey building is protected from earthquakes by rubber bearings

Engineers in California have unleashed high-intensity artificial earthquakes on a five-storey building packed with medical equipment.

The mock hospital has been built on a giant "shake table" which can subject the building to movements similar to real earthquakes.

The tests are designed to determine if hospitals built on rubber bearings could function after a quake.

The use of these rubber bearings is common in earthquake-prone Japan.

69 Killgore Trout  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:13:44am

re: #59 Decatur Deb

Have you looked at ICB containers? Clean ones go for about $150 here.

Image: 1000liter_IBC_tank_container_for_chemicals.jpg

Those are cool, I haven't seen them before. I did look around for above ground cisterns and didn't find much that interested me. My rain barelly are 55 gallon drums and I pay $50 each. I like those IBC tanks, i'll look around to see if I can find them locally.

70 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:14:14am

re: #48 Killgore Trout

I have done artichokes before. They're really easy and a started plant will set bulbs the first year. They die back in the fall but if you leave the roots in place they'll pop back in in late winter/early spring.

Will artichokes grow well in Virginia? I know nothing about them.

71 Only The Lurker Knows  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:14:36am

re: #58 ggt

Go container. Works well for us. We started out using 5 gallon plastic buckets we got from the Restaurants and only changed to the larger Garden Store type because the Wife thought they looked better.

72 Killgore Trout  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:16:18am

re: #70 NJDhockeyfan

Will artichokes grow well in Virginia? I know nothing about them.

Yeah, I think they'll do fine in VA. Give them a bit of water the first year but after that you can just leave them alone and they'll take care of themselves. Very easy to grow.

73 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:16:23am

re: #50 Decatur Deb

I just load the barrel from hose if we don't get rain, to give the chlorine a chance to gas off.

Chlorine? We have well water. No chlorine in my neighborhood.

74 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:16:47am

re: #71 Bubblehead II

Go container. Works well for us. We started out using 5 gallon plastic buckets we got from the Restaurants and only changed to the larger Garden Store type because the Wife thought they looked better.

Well, it won't be happening for a while.

My Dad used to grow tomatoes in a 1/2 barrel on the patio after they moved to an apartment!

You could still smell the bourbon that had originally aged in it.

Don't know where he got it.

75 Decatur Deb  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:17:26am

re: #69 Killgore Trout

Those are cool, I haven't seen them before. I did look around for above ground cisterns and didn't find much that interested me. My rain barelly are 55 gallon drums and I pay $50 each. I like those IBC tanks, i'll look around to see if I can find them locally.

Might be late for you, but our farm suppliers sell heavy USDA food grade plastic barrels for $20. That's what I use for the irrigation and a couple composters (1" hole every foot). Mine were used to import pickled peppers from Greece.

76 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:17:46am

re: #72 Killgore Trout

Yeah, I think they'll do fine in VA. Give them a bit of water the first year but after that you can just leave them alone and they'll take care of themselves. Very easy to grow.

I have a perfect place for them, right beside my shed. It's on a hill so I can make levels all the way down.

77 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:18:02am

re: #66 NJDhockeyfan

How long before the Israelis are blamed for that?

Asians and their "stamina"

Shark-fin soup and I can't remember what else.

I'm so glad I'm not a guy.

78 Only The Lurker Knows  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:18:18am

re: #67 Decatur Deb

I think I basically didn't have the right size emitters for the pots and the plants were not getting enough water. That's why I am going to try the spray type this year.

79 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:20:53am

re: #75 Decatur Deb

Might be late for you, but our farm suppliers sell heavy USDA food grade plastic barrels for $20. That's what I use for the irrigation and a couple composters (1" hole every foot). Mine were used to import pickled peppers from Greece.

imPort Pickled Peppers from the Parthenon?
Pots and Plants are Properly Packed and Padded with Popcorn?

80 Decatur Deb  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:21:37am

re: #71 Bubblehead II

Go container. Works well for us. We started out using 5 gallon plastic buckets we got from the Restaurants and only changed to the larger Garden Store type because the Wife thought they looked better.

We're good buds with a guy who runs a Starbucks-like shop. He lets us have a bucket full of grounds for the compost every week or so.

81 Decatur Deb  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:24:34am

re: #79 ggt

imPort Pickled Peppers from the Parthenon?
Pots and Plants are Properly Packed and Padded with Popcorn?

Positioned perfectly in the prows of ships in Pireaus.

82 Obdicut  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:26:50am

re: #81 Decatur Deb

Positioned perfectly in the prows of ships in Pireaus.

Problematically, priapism pre-empts proper packing proportional to pulchritude of packers.

83 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:27:57am

re: #82 Obdicut

Problematically, priapism pre-empts proper packing proportional to pulchritude of packers.

Ports are patrolled by persnickety inspectors?

84 Decatur Deb  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:28:21am

re: #82 Obdicut

Problematically, priapism pre-empts proper packing proportional to pulchritude of packers.

Probably the perennial problem with the portside pornai.

85 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:28:58am

re: #83 ggt

Ports are patrolled by persnickety inspectors?

Is Peter Piper an inspector?

86 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:29:47am

re: #85 NJDhockeyfan

Is Peter Piper an inspector?

Priapism Pressure puncuturer!

87 Killgore Trout  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:31:39am

re: #75 Decatur Deb

Might be late for you, but our farm suppliers sell heavy USDA food grade plastic barrels for $20. That's what I use for the irrigation and a couple composters (1" hole every foot). Mine were used to import pickled peppers from Greece.

I'm still expanding my rain barrel system so I'll check out the farm supply places. I'll eventually have 10-12 barrels catching rainwater from the roof of the greenhouse. In the summer I'll use it for watering and topping off the pond.

88 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:31:45am

re: #86 ggt

Priapism Pressure puncuturer!

according to properly posted policy procedure.

89 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:34:02am

I'm going to lay prone on my properly padded mattress with puppies.

Have a great morning all!

90 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:44:56am

Right across the mountain from me this idiot got himself arrested...

Waynesboro Man Charged with Threatening to Kill Obama

A Waynesboro man has been charged with threatening to kill President Barack Obama.

A criminal complaint filed in federal court in Harrisonburg said Christopher Hecker made death threats against the president and threatened to bomb the White House, hotels and other places, including Philadelphia City Hall and the site of the former World Trade Center.

An affidavit said the threats were emailed to media outlets.

Media outlets report an email sent April 19 to a Roanoke radio station threatened the president's life. The FBI traced the email to Hecker's account.

The affidavit said four days later, Hecker allegedly sent an email to another media outlet that threatened more violence.

"Sooner or later I will grab someone, maybe in the woods, on the trail, and beat the life out of them," the email said.

The writer also said Obama "is the one that is destroying patriotism in the U.S.A."

On April 25, a Secret Service agent began exchanging emails with Hecker, who allegedly continued to send out more written threats.

After it was determined last week that Hecker had signed on to a computer at the Waynesboro Public Library, Secret Service agents arrested him on the side of a street.

Hecker refused to be sworn in during an appearance Friday in federal court in Charlottesville. He told a magistrate judge he didn't want an attorney, wanted to be sentenced immediately and is seeking the death penalty.

Hecker was ordered to undergo a psychological evaluation.

91 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, May 7, 2012 8:59:16am

Prostitute at center of Secret Service scandal: Agents were 'stupid brutes'

MADRID, Spain -- A woman identifying herself as the Colombian prostitute at the center of a scandal involving U.S. Secret Service personnel has called the group of agents "stupid brutes" who put partying above President Barack Obama's security.

"These seem like completely stupid, idiotic people," Dania Londono Suarez said in an interview which aired on Monday's TODAY. "I don't know how Obama had them in his security force."

She also accused the agents of "leaving their duty behind" and described them as "stupid brutes."

...Suarez, 24, said three men who approached and propositioned her and her friends were drinking vodka like it was water.

"They liked to show off their bodies, great bodies, well-defined abs," Saurez said of the men she first met at a nightclub. "They liked attention."

"Trim, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son"
~ Colombian hooker

92 ThomasLite  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:11:19am

re: #89 ggt

I'm going to lay prone on my properly padded mattress with puppies.

Have a great morning all!

your matress is padded with puppies? aww!

93 lawhawk  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:11:53am

Greets and saluts from the NYC metro area. Didn't get much work done on the garden this weekend b/c of being laid low with bad allergies, but I did go see The Avengers in 3d. Gotta say, it was quite the enjoyable popcorn flick.

I wont give away any spoilers. Lots of funny moments too, and the bickering among the characters was familiar and familial in nature. Everyone got a chance to shine too - which is impressive considering the totality of the circumstances. Each of the Avengers got a key scene to shine, but it is safe to say that the Hulk stole the show when he finally showed up.

94 b_sharp  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:13:05am

re: #92 ThomasLite

your matress is padded with puppies? aww!

She tried kittens, but their claws kept tearing the sheets.

95 b_sharp  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:14:37am

re: #93 lawhawk

Greets and saluts from the NYC metro area. Didn't get much work done on the garden this weekend b/c of being laid low with bad allergies, but I did go see The Avengers in 3d. Gotta say, it was quite the enjoyable popcorn flick.

I wont give away any spoilers. Lots of funny moments too, and the bickering among the characters was familiar and familial in nature. Everyone got a chance to shine too - which is impressive considering the totality of the circumstances. Each of the Avengers got a key scene to shine, but it is safe to say that the Hulk stole the show when he finally showed up.

Everyone needs a Hulk.

BTW, you might want to trade those bad allergies for better allergies.
Just sayin'.

96 What, me worry?  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:18:56am

re: #91 NJDhockeyfan

This makes me really cranky. I have some questions.

Why should anyone believe the sordid details told by these women who would do anything, including sleeping with men, for money? How much did the TODAY show (and there were others) pay the prostitutes to give their tell-all story? And how brutal were the brutes who paid them $800? They weren't complaining about it then. How much does $800 American buy in Columbia? A hellofa lot. How much more can they get if they "tell their stories" and who is going to say it isn't true?

What the Secret Service did is despicable. There's no doubt about that. It's embarrassing to the president, to put it lightly, and to the U.S. as a whole. These guys were boneheads who jeopardized many reputations just to get a little sumfin sumfin.

But if you think I'm going to believe any word that comes out of a hooker's mouth, I'm not.

97 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:24:12am

re: #96 What, me worry?

This makes me really cranky. I have some questions.

Why should anyone believe the sordid details told by these women who would do anything, including sleeping with men, for money? How much did the TODAY show (and there were others) pay the prostitutes to give their tell-all story? And how brutal were the brutes who paid them $800? They weren't complaining about it then. How much does $800 American buy in Columbia? A hellofa lot. How much more can they get if they "tell their stories" and who is going to say it isn't true?

What the Secret Service did is despicable. There's no doubt about that. It's embarrassing to the president, to put it lightly, and to the U.S. as a whole. These guys were boneheads who jeopardized many reputations just to get a little sumfin sumfin.

But if you think I'm going to believe any word that comes out of a hooker's mouth, I'm not.

That all said, this is what concers me.

A woman identifying herself as the Colombian prostitute at the center of a scandal involving U.S. Secret Service agents spoke publicly about the incident for the first time on Friday, telling a Colombian radio network that, had she been a terrorist, she could have easily pried loose details of President Barack Obama’s planned visit to Cartagena from the liquored-up agents.

At that moment, if I had wanted to, or if I had been part of one of those terrorist groups, it's obvious I would have been able to get everything," the woman, Dania Londono Suarez, told Caracol Radio.

As embarrassing as this is, I'm glad they got caught. The security of our president and politicians shouldn't be handled lightly.

98 b_sharp  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:25:47am

re: #96 What, me worry?

This makes me really cranky. I have some questions.

Why should anyone believe the sordid details told by these women who would do anything, including sleeping with men, for money? How much did the TODAY show (and there were others) pay the prostitutes to give their tell-all story? And how brutal were the brutes who paid them $800? They weren't complaining about it then. How much does $800 American buy in Columbia? A hellofa lot. How much more can they get if they "tell their stories" and who is going to say it isn't true?

What the Secret Service did is despicable. There's no doubt about that. It's embarrassing to the president, to put it lightly, and to the U.S. as a whole. These guys were boneheads who jeopardized many reputations just to get a little sumfin sumfin.

But if you think I'm going to believe any word that comes out of a hooker's mouth, I'm not.

You're making a couple of assumptions here. One, that these woman have chosen this work out of several available to them, as the best way to support themselves and their families, and 2) that breaking a law in one area means they are unreliable in all other areas. There may be an increased disregard for honesty in these women, but that isn't a given, and it can't even be reliably determined without knowing more about their circumstances.

99 What, me worry?  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:27:00am

re: #97 NJDhockeyfan

I believe nothing they say. Nothing. It could be true 100% or it could be lies 100% and no one has any idea of knowing that.

100 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:28:12am

re: #99 What, me worry?

I believe nothing they say. Nothing. It could be true 100% or it could be lies 100% and no one has any idea of knowing that.

The agents who were there know. I have a feeling they will have to testify on what happened there in the near future.

101 Simply Sarah  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:30:27am

re: #96 What, me worry?

This makes me really cranky. I have some questions.

Why should anyone believe the sordid details told by these women who would do anything, including sleeping with men, for money? How much did the TODAY show (and there were others) pay the prostitutes to give their tell-all story? And how brutal were the brutes who paid them $800? They weren't complaining about it then. How much does $800 American buy in Columbia? A hellofa lot. How much more can they get if they "tell their stories" and who is going to say it isn't true?

What the Secret Service did is despicable. There's no doubt about that. It's embarrassing to the president, to put it lightly, and to the U.S. as a whole. These guys were boneheads who jeopardized many reputations just to get a little sumfin sumfin.

But if you think I'm going to believe any word that comes out of a hooker's mouth, I'm not.

I'm rather taken aback by what you say here. Are you saying that just because a woman is a sex worker, never mind that what she is doing is apparently legal where she is, she is somehow less of a person or less reliable than someone that doesn't do sex wok? Are you really implying that because they were paid by the agents, they have no room to talk or complain or speak ill of them? I'm sorry, but that all is extremely offensive and degrading to every person that has ever been involved in sex work, willingly or not.

102 allegro  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:30:59am

re: #98 b_sharp

You're making a couple of assumptions here. One, that these woman have chosen this work out of several available to them, as the best way to support themselves and their families, and 2) that breaking a law in one area means they are unreliable in all other areas. There may be an increased disregard for honesty in these women, but that isn't a given, and it can't even be reliably determined without knowing more about their circumstances.

I agree. Getting a full head of hate steam on women for the single reason that they are sex workers is pretty ugly.

103 Obdicut  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:31:21am

re: #96 What, me worry?

This seems to me just a fancier way of saying "Why listen to her, she's a whore."

104 What, me worry?  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:32:15am

re: #98 b_sharp

You're making a couple of assumptions here. One, that these woman have chosen this work out of several available to them, as the best way to support themselves and their families, and 2) that breaking a law in one area means they are unreliable in all other areas. There may be an increased disregard for honesty in these women, but that isn't a given, and it can't even be reliably determined without knowing more about their circumstances.

Granted, they probably have fewer choices than us, but I could have chosen to live a sleazy life that would have netted me a hellofa lot more than what I earn now. I didn't because I have morals.

PLENTY of Columbian women do not chose this life. I know many of them here in Miami.

And yea, breaking the law in one area means you are unreliable in just about everything else. That's the price they pay that's not actually in dollars.

105 allegro  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:32:31am

re: #101 Simply Sarah

I'm rather taken aback by what you say here. Are you saying that just because a woman is a sex worker, never mind that what she is doing is apparently legal where she is, she is somehow less of a person or less reliable than someone that doesn't do sex wok? Are you really implying that because they were paid by the agents, they have no room to talk or complain or speak ill of them? I'm sorry, but that all is extremely offensive and degrading to every person that has ever been involved in sex work, willingly or not.

Thank you for saying that much better than I did.

106 Simply Sarah  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:34:33am

re: #105 allegro

Thank you for saying that much better than I did.

Every once in a while, I get lucky. Oddly enough, it tends to be when I'm a bit riled up or outraged. Go figure.

107 Obdicut  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:35:43am

re: #104 What, me worry?

And yea, breaking the law in one area means you are unreliable in just about everything else.

That's very obviously untrue. Why do you believe it is?

For example, I know a ton of people who buy and consume pot, which is illegal, who are totally reliable people.

108 b_sharp  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:37:58am

re: #102 allegro

I agree. Getting a full head of hate steam on women for the single reason that they are sex workers is pretty ugly.

It's not ugly so much as a reflection of ingrained social views. Most of us in NA have been brought up to believe prostitution is one of many immoral activities. That same social view tends to associate immoral activities with an immoral soul/genetic predisposition, so acting immoral in one are means the person will act immoral in others.

109 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:38:10am

re: #104 What, me worry?

And yea, breaking the law in one area means you are unreliable in just about everything else. That's the price they pay that's not actually in dollars.

Prostitution is legal there.

110 Simply Sarah  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:38:33am

re: #104 What, me worry?

Granted, they probably have fewer choices than us, but I could have chosen to live a sleazy life that would have netted me a hellofa lot more than what I earn now. I didn't because I have morals.

PLENTY of Columbian women do not chose this life. I know many of them here in Miami.

And yea, breaking the law in one area means you are unreliable in just about everything else. That's the price they pay that's not actually in dollars.

Clearly we're coming from two very different places here. Why do you feel that the very act of being involved in sex work is immoral? What makes it intrinsically wrong?

Now, if you want to discuss whether or not sex work is harmful to the people involved and/or people (Especially women) as a whole, I'm totally open to that. Heck, I'm not even entirely sure where I stand in regards to that.

111 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:39:03am

re: #107 Obdicut

That's very obviously untrue. Why do you believe it is?

For example, I know a ton of people who buy and consume pot, which is illegal, who are totally reliable people.

I was speeding today. I must be unreliable!

112 What, me worry?  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:39:19am

re: #107 Obdicut

That's very obviously untrue. Why do you believe it is?

For example, I know a ton of people who buy and consume pot, which is illegal, who are totally reliable people.

Well, prostitution is legal in Columbia, but it's still immoral. On the whole, criminals do not make good truth tellers, but I wouldn't consider pot smokers criminals.

You can do whatever you want in this world, but I get to make my judgments about people, just like you do. If they aren't the same as yours, then they aren't, but they're still my judgments.

113 Obdicut  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:39:36am

re: #111 NJDhockeyfan

I was speeding today. I must be unreliable!

Well, you'll probably get there on time, at least.

114 What, me worry?  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:40:15am

re: #110 Simply Sarah

Clearly we're coming from two very different places here. Why do you feel that the very act of being involved in sex work is immoral? What makes it intrinsically wrong?

Now, if you want to discuss whether or not sex work is harmful to the people involved and/or people (Especially women) as a whole, I'm totally open to that. Heck, I'm not even entirely sure where I stand in regards to that.

Women who are sold into sex work is a whole other story, but that wasn't these women. There are high class, well paid prostitutes.

115 allegro  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:41:22am

re: #104 What, me worry?

Granted, they probably have fewer choices than us, but I could have chosen to live a sleazy life that would have netted me a hellofa lot more than what I earn now. I didn't because I have morals.

PLENTY of Columbian women do not chose this life. I know many of them here in Miami.

And yea, breaking the law in one area means you are unreliable in just about everything else. That's the price they pay that's not actually in dollars.

Wow, aren't we just so fucking special. I danced my way through grad school (yes, THAT kind of dancing in a very nice, upscale "gentleman's club") to pay for all of my expenses, including living expenses without needing any student loans. It was great actually, good money for only 4 nights a week so I could graduate cum laude with 2 masters degrees.

Fuck you and your moral high ground.

116 Simply Sarah  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:41:57am

re: #112 What, me worry?

Well, prostitution is legal in Columbia, but it's still immoral. On the whole, criminals do not make good truth tellers, but I wouldn't consider pot smokers criminals.

You can do whatever you want in this world, but I get to make my judgments about people, just like you do. If they aren't the same as yours, then they aren't, but they're still my judgments.

Now hang on, immoral or not, these women are very explicitly not criminals, so I don't get where you're coming off on the whole "criminals do not make good truth tellers" line. Additionally, the fact that you don't consider pot smokers criminal, when generally at least one criminal act is involved in acquiring and smoking the pot, makes it very clear you're not being even remotely objective on this.

117 Obdicut  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:42:41am

re: #112 What, me worry?

Well, prostitution is legal in Columbia, but it's still immoral. On the whole, criminals do not make good truth tellers, but I wouldn't consider pot smokers criminals.

But pot smokers are criminals. They really are. It doesn't mater that you don't consider them so.

You can do whatever you want in this world, but I get to make my judgments about people, just like you do. If they aren't the same as yours, then they aren't, but they're still my judgments.

Sure. What you're being asked is to defend that judgement. If your defense of it is just 'That's the way I feel', then obviously nobody can say anything to you about it. But I'm wondering why you feel this way.

It seems like the distinction really isn't the criminal/non-criminal thing to you, but the moral/immoral behavior, where you seem to not trust anyone who engages in immoral behavior.

I think that's short-sighted, since people tend to be very compartmentalized. I know lots of people who are absolutely reliable at work, professionally, but outside the job are whackos or troublemakers of one form or another.

People are complex, and it's hard to derive the whole from a part.

118 What, me worry?  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:42:57am

re: #108 b_sharp

It's not ugly so much as a reflection of ingrained social views. Most of us in NA have been brought up to believe prostitution is one of many immoral activities. That same social view tends to associate immoral activities with an immoral soul/genetic predisposition, so acting immoral in one are means the person will act immoral in others.

Acting immoral? Or doing an immoral job and getting paid for it?

No one's perfect in this world. I'm not saying that. But I've seen pictures of these women. They are very happy and very well paid for laying on their backs and that gives a real bad name for women out there struggling to make end's meet.

119 b_sharp  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:43:06am

re: #104 What, me worry?

Granted, they probably have fewer choices than us, but I could have chosen to live a sleazy life that would have netted me a hellofa lot more than what I earn now. I didn't because I have morals.

PLENTY of Columbian women do not chose this life. I know many of them here in Miami.

And yea, breaking the law in one area means you are unreliable in just about everything else. That's the price they pay that's not actually in dollars.

A Columbian woman in the US is given more opportunities than a Columbian woman in Columbia. Women making a subsidence living in Columbia hooking will never escape their situation and come to the US. Even here in Canada, there are women forced into the trade, not by choice but by circumstance and pressure from the organizers of the sex trade, normally known as pimps.

You may have an unrealistic understanding of how well, monetarily, hookers do.

120 b_sharp  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:44:39am

re: #111 NJDhockeyfan

I was speeding today. I must be unreliable!

You're a hockey fan, so that's a given.

121 Simply Sarah  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:45:11am

re: #118 What, me worry?

Acting immoral? Or doing an immoral job and getting paid for it?

No one's perfect in this world. I'm not saying that. But I've seen pictures of these women. They are very happy and very well paid for laying on their backs and that gives a real bad name for women out there struggling to make end's meet.

So, what, the issue now is that you feel they get paid well and enjoy their jobs? Well gee, that clearly makes them the scum of the Earth, right ahead of investment bankers and clowns.

122 What, me worry?  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:45:35am

re: #117 Obdicut

But pot smokers are criminals. They really are. It doesn't mater that you don't consider them so.

Sure. What you're being asked is to defend that judgement. If your defense of it is just 'That's the way I feel', then obviously nobody can say anything to you about it. But I'm wondering why you feel this way.

It seems like the distinction really isn't the criminal/non-criminal thing to you, but the moral/immoral behavior, where you seem to not trust anyone who engages in immoral behavior.

I think that's short-sighted, since people tend to be very compartmentalized. I know lots of people who are absolutely reliable at work, professionally, but outside the job are whackos or troublemakers of one form or another.

People are complex, and it's hard to derive the whole from a part.

It is more of a moral issue with me and I don't trust people I believe to be immoral.

123 sattv4u2  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:45:39am

re: #120 b_sharp

You're a hookerckey fan, so that's a given.

ftfy,, in keeping with the theme!
/

124 Kragar  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:46:11am
125 What, me worry?  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:46:16am

re: #121 Simply Sarah

So, what, the issue now is that you feel they get paid well and enjoy their jobs? Well gee, that clearly makes them the scum of the Earth, right ahead of investment bankers and clowns.

The issue is they spread their legs for money. I don't get that you don't get that.

126 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:46:42am

re: #114 What, me worry?

Women who are sold into sex work is a whole other story, but that wasn't these women. There are high class, well paid prostitutes.

What does that matter? Having sex for money is nothing new. I could see there being a question of their stories if they were heroin addicts but they aren't.

127 Simply Sarah  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:47:02am

re: #115 allegro

Wow, aren't we just so fucking special. I danced my way through grad school (yes, THAT kind of dancing in a very nice, upscale "gentleman's club") to pay for all of my expenses, including living expenses without needing any student loans. It was great actually, good money for only 4 nights a week so I could graduate cum laude with 2 masters degrees.

Fuck you and your moral high ground.

{{allegro}}

You and many other women. All of which have to deal with this kind of shaming that just makes things harder and more dangerous for them.

128 Kragar  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:47:07am

re: #118 What, me worry?

Acting immoral? Or doing an immoral job and getting paid for it?

No one's perfect in this world. I'm not saying that. But I've seen pictures of these women. They are very happy and very well paid for laying on their backs and that gives a real bad name for women out there struggling to make end's meet.

Kind of like professional athletes who get paid millions for playing a kid's game.

129 Eventual Carrion  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:47:13am

re: #124 Kragar

AFA Host Warns the European Union Will Raise up the Antichrist

It's about damn time. I have been waiting FOREVER!

130 Eventual Carrion  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:47:51am

re: #125 What, me worry?

The issue is they spread their legs for money. I don't get that you don't get that.

Maybe they only give 'handies'.

131 lawhawk  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:47:59am

re: #124 Kragar

Oh, that's original.

Not.

Sorry, but that's just not batcrap crazy enough to make the cut.

132 Simply Sarah  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:48:37am

re: #125 What, me worry?

The issue is they spread their legs for money. I don't get that you don't get that.

I damn well know what sex workers do. I'm asking why a woman doing what she wants with her own body is immoral.

133 What, me worry?  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:50:02am

re: #126 NJDhockeyfan

What does that matter? Having sex for money is nothing new. I could see there being a question of their stories if they were heroin addicts but they aren't.

Look, I could care less what they do for a living. It doesn't effect me in the least.

I'm only saying this in the context of them going around, from talk show to talk show (another paid gig) to tell how horrible they were treated, but they accepted lots of money anyway.

134 b_sharp  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:50:17am

re: #115 allegro

Wow, aren't we just so fucking special. I danced my way through grad school (yes, THAT kind of dancing in a very nice, upscale "gentleman's club") to pay for all of my expenses, including living expenses without needing any student loans. It was great actually, good money for only 4 nights a week so I could graduate cum laude with 2 masters degrees.

Fuck you and your moral high ground.

It depends on where you get your moral convictions. I get mine from practical consideration, which I view as superior, others get their morals from their upbringing, which includes religion.

The argument given by them is related to the argument that you can't have morals without religion. This is a core value that is tough to overcome.

135 Simply Sarah  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:50:25am

re: #128 Kragar

Kind of like professional athletes who get paid millions for playing a kid's game.

Getting paid millions to beat each other up to the point of horrible brain damage that will ruin their lives after retirement in their mid 30s. Which is the real immoral activity here?

136 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:50:33am

re: #125 What, me worry?

The issue is they spread their legs for money. I don't get that you don't get that.

What if they only strip or give lap dances. Does that make them more reliable?

137 Kragar  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:51:27am

re: #133 What, me worry?

Look, I could care less what they do for a living. It doesn't effect me in the least.

I'm only saying this in the context of them going around, from talk show to talk show (another paid gig) to tell how horrible they were treated, but they accepted lots of money anyway.

If they were smart, they could become reality stars like the Kardashians and earn legitimate money!
/

138 Eventual Carrion  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:53:09am

re: #136 NJDhockeyfan

What if they only strip or give lap dances. Does that make them more reliable?

That sounds like something that needs studied. You have any grant money laying around? Or would that be taking money for something that is immoral? I guess if I cared it would matter. Now back to your checkbook.

139 b_sharp  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:53:51am

re: #118 What, me worry?

Acting immoral? Or doing an immoral job and getting paid for it?

What's the difference?

No one's perfect in this world. I'm not saying that. But I've seen pictures of these women. They are very happy and very well paid for laying on their backs and that gives a real bad name for women out there struggling to make end's meet.

Simple question: Where do you get the idea that prostitution is immoral?

140 sattv4u2  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:54:43am

re: #138 RayFerd

That sounds like something that needs studied. You have any grant money laying around? Or would that taking money for something that is immoral? I guess if I cared it would matter. Now back to your checkbook.

Seeing that we can't be sure if the lap dancer also hooks, I think there's already federal grant money for that

SALLIE MAY!!!
/

141 b_sharp  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:54:45am

re: #123 sattv4u2

ftfy,, in keeping with the theme!
/

SHhh.

Don't give away the punch line.

142 Killgore Trout  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:55:24am

Occupy still supporting their terrorists.
Bridge bomb suspects plead not guilty; Occupy Cleveland members show up to support suspects

Dozens of members of Occupy Cleveland showed up at a Cleveland courthouse to support the five people charged in connection with an alleged plot to blow up a northeast Ohio bridge.

143 sattv4u2  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:55:58am

re: #138 RayFerd

re: #140 sattv4u2

Seeing that we can't be sure if the lap dancer also hooks, I think there's already federal grant money for that

SALLIE MAY!!!
/

And of course, the study of her pimp

FREDDIE MAC (daddy)

144 b_sharp  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:56:15am

re: #129 RayFerd

It's about damn time. I have been waiting FOREVER!

They've been really lax in living up to promises, haven't they?

145 What, me worry?  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:56:31am

You can gang pile on me all you want. I'm not explaining to anyone here why stripping and prostitution is immoral. If you don't know why, that's your problem.

146 sattv4u2  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:57:09am

re: #142 Killgore Trout

Can I get a "Who Gives A Fuck!"
/

147 Eventual Carrion  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:57:22am

re: #144 b_sharp

They've been really lax in living up to promises, haven't they?

Yeah, Renfield has been really fidgety the last 100 years waiting.

148 b_sharp  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:58:50am

re: #133 What, me worry?

Look, I could care less what they do for a living. It doesn't effect me in the least.

I'm only saying this in the context of them going around, from talk show to talk show (another paid gig) to tell how horrible they were treated, but they accepted lots of money anyway.

The uproar is in your assumption that women doing a job you consider immoral are also guaranteed to lie given the chance.

Maybe they are lying, but we can't tell that just by the cut of their job.

149 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:59:50am

re: #142 Killgore Trout

Occupy still supporting their terrorists.
Bridge bomb suspects plead not guilty; Occupy Cleveland members show up to support suspects

One of them signed a lease for the warehouse they are living in.

Suspect in bridge bombing plot signed lease on Occupy Cleveland warehouse

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- One of the five self-described anarchists arrested last week for attempting to blow up a local bridge signed the lease for a West Side warehouse where about a dozen members of the Occupy Cleveland group live.

In a one-hour recording of a Friday evening general assembly meeting of the group posted on its website [Link: occupycleveland.com...] occupy leaders expressed concern about Anthony Hayne's name being on the lease, which strengthens his link to the group.

"We have a person facing terrorism charges on the lease of our warehouse," said one of the leaders. "If this gets into the media, it would be a disaster."

Ya think?

150 sattv4u2  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:59:54am

re: #142 Killgore Trout

They should have been arrested years ago just for Nicknames!!

"SkullY", "Cyco" and "Skabby"

The last one,, "Tony and Billy",,,,, he must have been pissed that all the "good ones" were taken!

151 sagehen  Mon, May 7, 2012 9:59:58am

re: #133 What, me worry?

Look, I could care less what they do for a living. It doesn't effect me in the least.

I'm only saying this in the context of them going around, from talk show to talk show (another paid gig) to tell how horrible they were treated, but they accepted lots of money anyway.

They *didn't* get lots of money, that's why this turned into a big public fuss with cops and newspapers and everything else. The guy decided, when it was time to pay, that he'd rather not.

152 allegro  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:00:08am

re: #145 What, me worry?

You can gang pile on me all you want. I'm not explaining to anyone here why stripping and prostitution is immoral. If you don't know why, that's your problem.

If you can't explain why, perhaps the problem lies with you.

153 b_sharp  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:01:45am

re: #145 What, me worry?

You can gang pile on me all you want. I'm not explaining to anyone here why stripping and prostitution is immoral. If you don't know why, that's your problem.

We know why you believe they're immoral, MM, we just want a discussion of the absolute value of your source. I'm not trying to gang up on you.

154 Kragar  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:02:29am

re: #153 b_sharp

We know why you believe they're immoral, MM, we just want a discussion of the absolute value of your source. I'm not trying to gang up on you.

The flesh is sinful and must be punished.
/

155 wrenchwench  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:03:10am

re: #145 What, me worry?

You can gang pile on me all you want. I'm not explaining to anyone here why stripping and prostitution is immoral. If you don't know why, that's your problem.

You don't need to explain why you think something is immoral. You don't need to explain anything, that's your choice. But if I want to comment on your comment, am I piling on?


re: #96 What, me worry?

Why should anyone believe the sordid details told by these women who would do anything, including sleeping with men, for money?

You are concluding that if they would sleep with men for money, they would do anything. Maybe they chose sleeping with men for money over working with coke dealers.

re: #104 What, me worry?

PLENTY of Columbian women do not chose this life. I know many of them here in Miami.

Sounds like you know some Colombian women. Sounds like you don't know any poor people.

156 Simply Sarah  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:03:46am

re: #145 What, me worry?

You can gang pile on me all you want. I'm not explaining to anyone here why stripping and prostitution is immoral. If you don't know why, that's your problem.

I fall into several categories where people have made the same sort of comment about why they didn't need to explain why that aspect of me was immoral, so this really isn't doing anything for me. And no, it's not my problem, it's yours.

157 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:04:55am

re: #155 wrenchwench

You are concluding that if they would sleep with men for money, they would do anything. Maybe they chose sleeping with men for money over working with coke dealers.

No, then their credibility wouldn't be questioned. Only hookers can't be trusted!

158 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:05:30am

Morality is notoriously subjective.

159 Simply Sarah  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:07:21am

re: #158 May Day! May Day!

Morality is notoriously subjective.

Hence why I generally don't like condemning people as immoral without having some damn good reasoning backing me up, although I fall short in this regard more than I'd like.

160 Kragar  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:07:40am

GOP decides to stick with "Fuck the Poor" strategy

The proposal — which is an outgrowth of the budget the House GOP overwhelmingly voted for late March — would cut some $261 billion from health care programs, food stamps, unemployment benefits and child tax credits, among others. It constitutes a violation of the GOP’s end of the debt-limit deal, which included painful sacrifices for both parties if the Congress failed to reach a bipartisan deficit-reduction agreement.

The measure would override the $78 billion in defense cuts set take effect January 2013 as a backstop in last August’s debt limit law. Additional cuts are in place for the following nine years. President Obama and Democrats aren’t happy with the so-called “sequestration” cuts either, but they insist they won’t roll them back unless Republicans agree to a balanced deal that combines spending cuts with new revenues taken from wealthy Americans, the latter of which Republicans have blocked for years.

The take away? The GOP is not a honest partner for any sort of negotiation.

161 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:08:45am

re: #160 Kragar

GOP decides to stick with "Fuck the Poor" strategy

The take away? The GOP is not a honest partner for any sort of negotiation.

But it's not class warfare.// Class warfare is expecting the wealthy to pay Clinton era tax levels.

162 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:08:45am

re: #159 Simply Sarah

Hence why I generally don't like condemning people as immoral without having some damn good reasoning backing me up, although I fall short in this regard more than I'd like.

I don't have a problem condemning people as immoral. I'm just very aware this may mean nothing to them in their own personal moral system of coordinates.

163 Simply Sarah  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:09:36am

re: #162 May Day! May Day!

I don't have a problem condemning people as immoral. I'm just very aware this may mean nothing to them in their own personal moral system of coordinates.

Fair enough. I like there to at least being the illusion of a possibility to convert them to my point of view.

164 Kragar  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:10:04am

re: #158 May Day! May Day!

Morality is notoriously subjective.

"All crimes are committed by the living. There is one one possible conclusion. The crime is life, the punishment? Death." - Judge Death

165 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:10:29am

Remind me to stay away from Greece if I travel that way for a vacation...

Greece sinks into the abyss, while neo-Nazis are celebrating

The neo-Nazi party won popular support in a way similar to how Hamas won popular support in Gaza and the Muslim Brotherhood is winning in Egypt: by filling a void that the government didn't.

166 iossarian  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:11:29am

re: #164 Kragar

"All crimes are committed by the living. There is one one possible conclusion. The crime is life, the punishment? Death." - Judge Death

Automatic thrills upding.

167 Simply Sarah  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:11:53am

re: #165 NJDhockeyfan

Remind me to stay away from Greece if I travel that way for a vacation...

Greece sinks into the abyss, while neo-Nazis are celebrating

Yeah, I'm deeply troubled that 7% of Greek voters could support fucking goddamn Nazis. Things are even worse there than I had ever imagined.

168 lawhawk  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:12:43am

How about we go back to the original, in Latin:

Malum in se - meaning wrong in itself. A legal term of art used to refer to conduct assessed as sinful or inherently wrong. Think murder, rape, robbery, assault, etc.

Malum prohibitum - wrong prohibited. It's crimes that are made illegal because they violate society's standards of conduct. Applies to everything from hate crimes to white collar crimes, and things that don't count as malum in se crimes.

Prostitution is malum prohibitum - not every country/jurisdiction makes prostitution illegal; it's not universally seen as a wrong.

As for whether someone is more or less trustworthy because they accepted money in exchange for sexual acts, I don't think one follows the other.

Let's take the USSS situation. That happened in Colombia, where prostitution is legal (as it is in many other countries - with limitations as to how, where, and when). Why should that person's word be treated as somehow less trustworthy than someone in the same profession in the US (where prostitution is essentially illegal).

169 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:13:18am

re: #167 Simply Sarah

I suppose (and yes, I'm just speculating here) they carried cross wearing a flag. A lot of people would see just that.

170 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:13:34am

re: #167 Simply Sarah

Yeah, I'm deeply troubled that 7% of Greek voters could support fucking goddamn Nazis. Things are even worse there than I had ever imagined.

Troubled economic times seems to be a recipe for this sort of thing. They never come to power in prosperous times, economic downtimes means there's a scapegoat to exploit.

171 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:14:20am

re: #169 May Day! May Day!

I suppose (and yes, I'm just speculating here) they carried cross wearing a flag. A lot of people would see just that.

As is typical in Eurofascism. Religion + nationalism= disaster.

172 b_sharp  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:14:21am

re: #168 lawhawk

How about we go back to the original, in Latin:

Malum in se - meaning wrong in itself. A legal term of art used to refer to conduct assessed as sinful or inherently wrong. Think murder, rape, robbery, assault, etc.

Malum prohibitum - wrong prohibited. It's crimes that are made illegal because they violate society's standards of conduct. Applies to everything from hate crimes to white collar crimes, and things that don't count as malum in se crimes.

Prostitution is malum prohibitum - not every country/jurisdiction makes prostitution illegal; it's not universally seen as a wrong.

As for whether someone is more or less trustworthy because they accepted money in exchange for sexual acts, I don't think one follows the other.

Let's take the USSS situation. That happened in Colombia, where prostitution is legal (as it is in many other countries - with limitations as to how, where, and when). Why should that person's word be treated as somehow less trustworthy than someone in the same profession in the US (where prostitution is essentially illegal).

Not paying them is the crime.

173 Simply Sarah  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:14:38am

re: #169 May Day! May Day!

I suppose (and yes, I'm just speculating here) they carried cross wearing a flag. A lot of people would see just that.

They did have a flag! This one! Hmm...now what does that remind me of...

Edit: Oh, uh, it's also possible that link may be borderline illegal in some countries. Not sure if it's close enough to an actual Nazi swastika to fall afoul of laws in said countries.

174 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:14:51am

(I only chimed in because the fucking truce conference in High Hrotghar just hung up. They're like sitting there doing nothing.)

175 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:15:23am

re: #170 HappyWarrior

Troubled economic times seems to be a recipe for this sort of thing. They never come to power in prosperous times, economic downtimes means there's a scapegoat to exploit.

I believe this is how Hitler became popular back in the 30s.

176 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:15:39am

re: #171 HappyWarrior

As is typical in Eurofascism. Religion + nationalism= disaster.

Any fascism, really. So easy to rile up the worried moralist patriots.

177 sagehen  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:15:40am

re: #168 lawhawk

Let's take the USSS situation. That happened in Colombia, where prostitution is legal (as it is in many other countries - with limitations as to how, where, and when). Why should that person's word be treated as somehow less trustworthy than someone in the same profession in the US (where prostitution is essentially illegal).

There are places in *this* country where it's entirely legal.

178 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:16:24am

re: #175 NJDhockeyfan

I believe this is how Hitler became popular back in the 30s.

It is, yes. The Nazi Party was weak and fledgling in the 20's but the global depression changed that.

179 sattv4u2  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:16:29am

re: #173 Simply Sarah

They did have a flag! This one! Hmm...now what does that remind me of...

Image: madcover.jpg

180 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:17:05am

re: #176 May Day! May Day!

Any fascism, really. So easy to rile up the worried moralist patriots.

Yeah, I'm only really familiar with Eurofascism. Not all familiar with its other "flavors."

181 Simply Sarah  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:17:54am

re: #177 sagehen

There are places in *this* country where it's entirely legal.

Well, not entirely legal. Even in Nevada it's regulated and limited.

182 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:18:46am

What a lot of people don't realize is nationalism is relatively new to history. A product of the Napoleonic wars and the decline of kings. My thesis is when Europe was more absolute monarchist, nationalism wasn't as high since the monarchs were related and valued that more than nationality.

183 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:20:29am

re: #180 HappyWarrior

Yeah, I'm only really familiar with Eurofascism. Not all familiar with its other "flavors."

Crap, turd, manure, feces, stool...it's all shitty.

184 Simply Sarah  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:20:52am

re: #182 HappyWarrior

What a lot of people don't realize is nationalism is relatively new to history. A product of the Napoleonic wars and the decline of kings. My thesis is when Europe was more absolute monarchist, nationalism wasn't as high since the monarchs were related and valued that more than nationality.

Yep. Had to have real nations before you could really have nationalism.

185 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:22:15am

re: #184 Simply Sarah

Yep. Had to have real nations before you could really have nationalism.

The nations - as in ethnic groups - existed all along, so ethnic nationalism is an old thing.

187 Eventual Carrion  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:22:50am

re: #171 HappyWarrior

As is typical in Eurofascism. Religion + nationalism= disaster.

What world wars are made of.

188 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:23:08am

re: #183 NJDhockeyfan

Crap, turd, manure, feces, stool...it's all shitty.

No doubt but as a former history major, what interests me is how these movements differ. Like differentiating between Hitler's brand and Franco's. Same thing fascinates me with Communism. There's a difference between Stalinism and Maoism.

189 Simply Sarah  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:23:26am

re: #185 May Day! May Day!

The nations - as in ethnic groups - existed all along, so ethnic nationalism is an old thing.

Correct, but nationalism along imaginary lines on the ground and often containing multiple ethnic groups inside are a new concept.

190 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:25:52am

re: #189 Simply Sarah

Correct, but nationalism along imaginary lines on the ground and often containing multiple ethnic groups inside are a new concept.

That much is true. Though I must confess a bias when using the term - where I come from it means "mostly" ethnic nationalism (i.e. unrelated to state borders). I actually am not sure about the primary meaning in the US.

191 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:26:27am

Israel warns Hizbollah over Iran

Any Hizbollah retaliation to an attack on Iran's nuclear facilities would prompt Israel to launch a war in Lebanon so ferocious that it would take a decade to rebuild the villages it destroys, a senior Israeli military officer has warned.

That is not a veiled threat. It's a statement.

192 iossarian  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:27:00am

re: #186 Kragar

North Carolina Republicans Go Birther: Certificate Is A ‘Poorly Reproduced Forgery’

I think it's ironic that people worry about 7% of a small European country voting for a dodgy neo-nazi party when 27% of the most heavily-armed and economically powerful nation in the world are out-and-out racist lunatics.

193 Simply Sarah  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:28:18am

re: #190 May Day! May Day!

That much is true. Though I must confess a bias when using the term - where I come from it means "mostly" ethnic nationalism (i.e. unrelated to state borders). I actually am not sure about the primary meaning in the US.

Fair enough. Honestly, the meaning it takes on varies depending on where you are and who you talk to. Not all, say, American nationalists would agree on what exactly 'nation' they're supporting/protecting.

194 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:28:29am

re: #187 RayFerd

What world wars are made of.

WWI needs to be studied in schools better. It I honestly believe explains much of the last century.

195 lawhawk  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:29:23am

re: #177 sagehen

That's why I said essentially illegal. It's illegal in 49 of 50 states, with Nevada being the only place where it's legal in certain circumstances.

196 Simply Sarah  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:29:35am

re: #192 iossarian

I think it's ironic that people worry about 7% of a small European country voting for a dodgy neo-nazi party when 27% of the most heavily-armed and economically powerful nation in the world are out-and-out racist lunatics.

Point well taken.

197 iossarian  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:30:25am

PS - I don't mean to ignore the greek election results, but 7% is not really a game changer in my opinion, when similar (and higher) scores have been registered by similar parties in areas hit by economic downturn over the past 20-odd years. I don't think Europe is slipping into fascism.

In fact, the article quoted above mentions that the left-wing party got, what, 14% of the vote? Of course the author hates them because he's the:

Founder of Capital Management Advisors and active in Greek business life

198 Kragar  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:31:09am

re: #194 HappyWarrior

WWI needs to be studied in schools better. It I honestly believe explains much of the last century.

One lesson we should have learned. The idea that superior technology means a quick tidy war that is over in a few weeks is a complete load of utter crap.

199 lawhawk  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:32:54am

re: #194 HappyWarrior

If we're going to focus on WWII, you better devote a large percentage to WWI, which set in motion the conditions precedent to WWII (war reparations, grievances, colonialism starting to fade out, the decline and fall of the Ottoman Empire, British and French carving up the Middle East, etc.)

200 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:32:56am

re: #198 Kragar

One lesson we should have learned. The idea that superior technology means a quick tidy war that is over in a few weeks is a complete load of utter crap.

Tragically, I think the biggest lesson of history is we don't learn. We think we've learned from the past. Only to repeat or make new mistakes. Sure, it's cynical but it's reality.

201 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:33:54am

re: #198 Kragar

One lesson we should have learned. The idea that superior technology means a quick tidy war that is over in a few weeks is a complete load of utter crap.

20th century: "small victorious war".

21st century: cakewalk.

202 Interesting Times  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:34:10am

re: #197 iossarian

PS - I don't mean to ignore the greek election results, but 7% is not really a game changer in my opinion

You are right. Just add three more percentage points:

What does it take for an idea to spread from one to many? For a minority opinion to become the majority belief? According to a new study by scientists at the Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, the answer is 10%. Once 10% of a population is committed to an idea, it’s inevitable that it will eventually become the prevailing opinion of the entire group. The key is to remain committed.

203 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:34:13am

re: #199 lawhawk

If we're going to focus on WWII, you better devote a large percentage to WWI, which set in motion the conditions precedent to WWII (war reparations, grievances, colonialism starting to fade out, the decline and fall of the Ottoman Empire, British and French carving up the Middle East, etc.)

Yep. And it's worth noting that 2/3's of the Axis (Japan and Italy) had been on the winning side in WWI as well.

204 iossarian  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:36:21am

re: #202 Interesting Times

You are right. Just add three more percentage points:

I think these things need to be monitored, but Jean-Marie Le Pen got 15% of the vote in the late 90s in France, and they just voted in a social democrat yesterday.

Like I said, worth keeping an eye on but the Greek result doesn't really shift the needle for me.

205 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:36:27am

re: #202 Interesting Times

You are right. Just add three more percentage points:

That ... seems a bit simplistic.

206 Simply Sarah  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:36:31am

re: #201 May Day! May Day!

20th century: "small victorious war".

21st century: cakewalk.

Well, we really did steamroll the Iraqi military. The problem was that in real life, unlike in movies or video games, things don't end once you finish overthrowing whomever was in power.

207 Decatur Deb  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:37:08am

re: #201 May Day! May Day!

20th century: "small victorious war".

21st century: cakewalk.

19th Century: "Splendid Little War"

208 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:38:21am

re: #207 Decatur Deb

19th Century: "Splendid Little War"

We learn ever so slowly.

209 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:40:13am

Saw the Avengers on Saturday Night...pure Awesomesauce.

210 Kragar  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:41:07am

“Every attempt to make war easy and safe will result in humiliation and disaster” - W.T. Sherman

211 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:41:23am

I don't know if to feel a bit sick today (well, you know what happened today) or as usual (you know that nothing of substance has changed today). Maybe a bit sick (the "stylistic details" may hurt).

212 lawhawk  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:42:45am

re: #209 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

Wanna know my secret? I'm always angry. /hulk... SMASH!

213 Kragar  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:43:55am

re: #212 lawhawk

Wanna know my secret? I'm always angry. /hulk... SMASH!

"Puny god."

214 b_sharp  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:47:46am

re: #211 May Day! May Day!

I don't know if to feel a bit sick today (well, you know what happened today) or as usual (you know that nothing of substance has changed today). Maybe a bit sick (the "stylistic details" may hurt).

Burp loudly and base your decision on the smell.

215 Kragar  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:51:16am

Racist Skinhead Leaders Arrested in Florida Conspiracy

Three Florida leaders of the American Front, a California-based group of racist skinheads known for its predilection for violence, have been arrested on conspiracy and hate crime charges, along with four other members of the gang.

Two of the leaders — Marcus Faella and his wife Patricia Faella — were arrested on Friday, while the third, Mark McGowan, was picked up over the weekend, as were the four lower-ranking group members. The three leaders were charged with instructing another person in the use of firearms or explosives while knowing that they would be used “in, or in furtherance of, a civil disorder in the United States.”

Officials in Florida initially offered few details of the arrests or the alleged conspiracy. But a source close to the investigation said they are, in effect, the second round in a major, ongoing investigation.

In late March, the Orange County, Fla., Sheriff’s Office in Orlando announced the arrests of six people who belonged to or were associated with the Outlaws motorcycle club or the 1st SS Kavallerie Brigade Motorcycle Division, a neo-Nazi gang started by former Aryan Nations official August Kreis III. A sheriff’s official said the group wanted to “blow up buildings and houses” and to kill rivals.

216 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:56:46am

re: #214 b_sharp

Burp loudly and base your decision on the smell.

I'm drinking Baileys and it's just not burpy.

217 darthstar  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:57:10am

It's going to take a lot of Jesus and fear mongering to keep Texas red in a couple of years.


218 b_sharp  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:58:13am

re: #216 May Day! May Day!

I'm drinking Baileys and it's just not burpy.

I guess you'll have to resort to the Magic 8 Ball.

219 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:58:22am

re: #217 darthstar

It's going to take a lot of Jesus and fear mongering to keep Texas red in a couple of years.

[Embedded content]

Cue freakouts.

220 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:59:14am

re: #218 b_sharp

I guess you'll have to resort to the Magic 8 Ball.

Don't have it.
Will have to do with the alcohol-drenched brain. Best randomizer.

221 Kragar  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:59:33am

Iran news alters missile test image to include ‘Star Wars’ character

Iran's Mehr News Agency used a blatantly altered image to illustrate a story downplaying its ballistic missile test program. The Atlantic first reported on the digitally enhanced image--which includes the "Star Wars" character Jar Jar Binks--after it was published Friday on the agency's website.

As the Atlantic pointed out, Friday was also the day "Star Wars" fans celebrated the 35th anniversary of the film's release.

222 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, May 7, 2012 10:59:33am

re: #60 ggt

Science is sooo kewl!

And if you catch a sinus infection from them you sneeze when pointing towards Magnetic North!
/ ;)

223 darthstar  Mon, May 7, 2012 11:01:01am

re: #221 Kragar

Iran news alters missile test image to include ‘Star Wars’ character

Good to see they have a sense of humor.

224 darthstar  Mon, May 7, 2012 11:03:28am
225 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, May 7, 2012 11:05:57am

re: #217 darthstar

It's going to take a lot of Jesus and fear mongering to keep Texas red in a couple of years.

Just move all the polling places into gated communities/compounds. Issue solved!
///

226 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, May 7, 2012 11:06:29am

setstage mq302 180 worked. Who knew?

227 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Mon, May 7, 2012 11:06:57am

re: #212 lawhawk

"Enough of this, I'm a god, I will not be treated this way by an overgrown brute like you!"

228 Kragar  Mon, May 7, 2012 11:07:44am

re: #227 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

"Enough of this, I'm a god, I will not be treated this way by an overgrown brute like you!"

"None of you kissed me, right?"

229 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, May 7, 2012 11:08:19am
230 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 7, 2012 11:10:58am

re: #224 darthstar

[Embedded content]

And 3 of them did because it gave them a good nap.

231 ArchangelMichael  Mon, May 7, 2012 11:21:11am

re: #226 May Day! May Day!

setstage mq302 180 worked. Who knew?

Skipping through someones speech?

232 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, May 7, 2012 11:21:36am

re: #223 darthstar

Good to see they have a sense of humor.

"Meesha so sorry I trip on switch!"

233 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, May 7, 2012 11:22:42am

re: #231 ArchangelMichael

Skipping through someones speech?

Probably.

234 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, May 7, 2012 11:28:35am

Tom Brokaw: White House Correspondents' Dinner is over the top

Tom Brokaw set off a media firestorm by saying it’s “time to rethink” the “glittering,” celeb-studded White House Correspondents’ Dinner, but his criticism is being seconded by the likes of Fox News’ Greta Van Susteren, who replied, “I am game.”

A charter member of the association, Brokaw said on NBC’s “Meet the Press” Sunday that the annual dinner showcases just how out of touch the national media is with the public.

“Look, I think George Clooney is a great guy. I’d like to meet Charlize Theron,” he said. “But I don’t think the big press event in Washington should be that kind of glittering event where the whole talk is about Cristal champagne, taking over the Italian Embassy, who had the best party, who got to meet the most people. That’s another separation between what we’re supposed to be doing and what the people expect us to be doing, and I think that the Washington press corps has to look at that.”

This is a charity event, isn't it?

235 zora  Mon, May 7, 2012 11:29:45am
Bryan Fischer: How Is Romney ‘Going To Stand Up To North Korea If He Can Be Pushed Around By A Yokel Like Me?’

FISCHER: If Mitt Romney can be pushed around, intimidated, coerced, co-opted by a conservative radio talk show host in Middle America, then how is he going to stand up to the Chinese? How is he going to stand up to Putin? How is he going to stand up to North Korea if he can be pushed around by a yokel like me? I don’t think Romney is realizing the doubts that this begins to raise about his leadership.

[Link: thinkprogress.org...]

priceless

236 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 7, 2012 11:31:08am

re: #235 zora

[Link: thinkprogress.org...]

priceless

Stop hitting yourself, stop hitting yourself.

237 darthstar  Mon, May 7, 2012 11:31:56am

re: #236 HappyWarrior

Stop hitting yourself, stop hitting yourself.

Romney loves a little self-flagellation.

238 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Mon, May 7, 2012 11:32:13am

re: #235 zora

Rightwing: Do what we say!!!!

Romney: Ok....done.

Rightwing: If we can make you do what we say then how will you stand up to X?

Damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. The bottom line is they don't like him.

239 lawhawk  Mon, May 7, 2012 11:33:25am

re: #227 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

When this is over, we've got to go for shawarma.

240 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 7, 2012 11:33:29am

re: #237 darthstar

Romney loves a little self-flagellation.

Yep.

241 allegro  Mon, May 7, 2012 11:33:36am

re: #234 NJDhockeyfan

Tom Brokaw set off a media firestorm by saying it’s “time to rethink” the “glittering,” celeb-studded White House Correspondents’ Dinner, but his criticism is being seconded by the likes of Fox News’ Greta Van Susteren, who replied, “I am game.”

Wait... wan't it Greta who brought the Kardashian woman and the muchly in trouble infamous-actress-whose-name-eludes-me as her guests to the event? Now she's complaining about the celeb-studded glitter?

242 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 7, 2012 11:34:01am

re: #238 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

Rightwing: Do what we say!!!

Romney: Ok...done.

Rightwing: If we can make you do what we say then how will you stand up to X?

Damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. The bottom line is they don't like him.

It's why I almost pity him.

243 Shropshire_Slasher  Mon, May 7, 2012 11:36:40am

re: #237 darthstar

You are thinking of them shifty Catholics.

244 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, May 7, 2012 11:38:16am

My WWII page disappeared from Recent Pages list. Where did it go?

245 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, May 7, 2012 11:40:58am

re: #242 HappyWarrior

It's why I almost pity him.

Live by the pander. Die by the pander. And I think at this point Fisher thinks he is being played like the GOP mainstream candidates have played the religious far-right in the previous thirty years. He gets all the pretty words and support during the campaign, but none of the actual desired agenda gets anything beyond lip service once the mainstreamer is in office.

And Fisher might soon be viewing a Romney defeat as a win-win. Four more years of a Democratic administration to make money off of by pounding the pulpit, and sets the stage for a *real* religious conservative candidate like heir apparent Santorum to get the nomination in 2016.

246 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, May 7, 2012 11:43:14am

re: #244 NJDhockeyfan

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

247 lawhawk  Mon, May 7, 2012 11:44:05am

re: #244 NJDhockeyfan

Recent pages only show the most recent page by the author (the other more recent items are found by hovering over your name). If you get a featured article, more can show. That way, more authors can get their pages listed.

248 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, May 7, 2012 11:45:40am

re: #247 lawhawk

Recent pages only show the most recent page by the author (the other more recent items are found by hovering over your name). If you get a featured article, more can show. That way, more authors can get their pages listed.

Oh, I missed the update. Thanks for letting me know :)

249 HappyWarrior  Mon, May 7, 2012 11:47:28am

re: #245 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Live by the pander. Die by the pander. And I think at this point Fisher thinks he is being played like the GOP mainstream candidates have played the religious far-right in the previous thirty years. He gets all the pretty words and support during the campaign, but none of the actual desired agenda gets anything beyond lip service once the mainstreamer is in office.

And Fisher might soon be viewing a Romney defeat as a win-win. Four more years of a Democratic administration to make money off of by pounding the pulpit, and sets the stage for a *real* religious conservative candidate like heir apparent Santorum to get the nomination in 2016.

Should have emphasized almost pity. I don't feel bad for Mitt at all because he panders to this crap.

250 Gus  Mon, May 7, 2012 3:02:50pm

re: #96 What, me worry?

This makes me really cranky. I have some questions.

Why should anyone believe the sordid details told by these women who would do anything, including sleeping with men, for money? How much did the TODAY show (and there were others) pay the prostitutes to give their tell-all story? And how brutal were the brutes who paid them $800? They weren't complaining about it then. How much does $800 American buy in Columbia? A hellofa lot. How much more can they get if they "tell their stories" and who is going to say it isn't true?

What the Secret Service did is despicable. There's no doubt about that. It's embarrassing to the president, to put it lightly, and to the U.S. as a whole. These guys were boneheads who jeopardized many reputations just to get a little sumfin sumfin.

But if you think I'm going to believe any word that comes out of a hooker's mouth, I'm not.

I see what you're saying here and although I disagree on the morality aspect I think this sudden playing of the victim seems to be a schtick of their's while getting their 15 minutes of fame or more. They will likely go on to get more attention and profit from this event. One of these women was complaining about how "her life was ruined" and within minutes was talking about doing a magazine spread "if the price is right."

I think the self-victimization is for several reasons. One such reason is that behind the camera there is an element of public embarrassment about being engaged in a professional activity they had no qualms with before being "outed" for lack off a better term. However, going public to the point of appearing on television programs was their decision alone. No one forced them to appear on the today show. They could have gone on with their business in Cartagena and no one would have batted an eye.

251 Obdicut  Mon, May 7, 2012 3:06:20pm

re: #250 Gus

I think it's totally fine to question whether or not they're just making shit up for attention/money, but just on the basis that that's something people in general do, rather than because they're prostitutes.

252 Gus  Mon, May 7, 2012 3:14:26pm

re: #251 Obdicut

I think it's totally fine to question whether or not they're just making shit up for attention/money, but just on the basis that that's something people in general do, rather than because they're prostitutes.

Sure. That's true. Just as much -- and I'll make and assumption here -- that the Secret Service agent "made some shit up" to save their ass when confronted. It's a human behavior to stretch the truth and yes, lie if needed. We also can't think that they're not lying just because they are prostitutes and want to hold onto a noble, celluloid vision of how they really behave -- i.e. the movie cliche that "prostitutes are always good, honest, and kind people." Just as much as the Secret Service and military men. And in general I will assume that most of their customers have been "stupid idiots" and "brutes" since time immortal.

253 What, me worry?  Mon, May 7, 2012 5:38:25pm

re: #250 Gus

In life, I learned you have to be able to make judgments about people or you're going to find yourself quite miserable. Whom to be friends with, whom to confide and trust and to know the red flags.

As to these "ladies", their lives are far from ruined. This is the best thing that could have happened to them. And when men like this wish to act like men like this, well, they deserve every bit of the humiliation. It's just a horror for the rest of us they are who they are.

My only other comment is what Wench said to me. That I don't know any poor people. I do a lot of charity work and have been for many years. I've worked with the homeless, food and clothing drives, helping and volunteering with the elderly and for the last 7 years, I've been organizing programs for immigrant children and their parents. My mother was a Head Start teacher. I have lots of experience going into the projects. I know a whole bunch of poor people. And guess what? None of them are hookers!

254 wrenchwench  Tue, May 8, 2012 9:34:17am

re: #253 What, me worry?

My only other comment is what Wench said to me. That I don't know any poor people. I do a lot of charity work and have been for many years. I've worked with the homeless, food and clothing drives, helping and volunteering with the elderly and for the last 7 years, I've been organizing programs for immigrant children and their parents. My mother was a Head Start teacher. I have lots of experience going into the projects. I know a whole bunch of poor people. And guess what? None of them are hookers!

And would you withhold your charity if you found out that they are or have been hookers?

255 What, me worry?  Tue, May 8, 2012 12:37:37pm

re: #254 wrenchwench

And would you withhold your charity if you found out that they are or have been hookers?

I don't know where this is coming from with you. I thought you knew my nature after all this time, but it's apparent you don't.

I said that hookers can't be trusted. Oh boy, what a freaking news alert. And yet, I had to defend myself because apparently it's a shocker that people may consider sleeping with men for money to be an immoral act. I'm some kind of religious extremist, apparently. And somehow that got equated with pot smoking and speeding ??? Because some people here apparently can't tell the difference between the two.

You came to the inexplicable conclusion that I'm some kind of elitist and joined in on the attack on me. Thanks, Wench.

And to answer your question, if I was giving charity to a organization that I found was made up of hookers, than yes, I would stop giving my charity. They probably don't need it anyway.

256 wrenchwench  Tue, May 8, 2012 2:14:08pm

re: #255 What, me worry?

I don't know where this is coming from with you. I thought you knew my nature after all this time, but it's apparent you don't.

[...]

You came to the inexplicable conclusion that I'm some kind of elitist and joined in on the attack on me. Thanks, Wench.

I didn't think you were an elitist until this thread. Inexplicable is a word I might have used. I thought you were a person who wouldn't take one bit of information about a person ('sleeps with men for money') and draw all kinds of conclusions from it ('would do anything', 'can't be trusted', 'gives a real bad name for women out there struggling to make end's meet'.) I'm not 'joining in an attack' on you. I'm asking questions, trying to make sense of where you're coming from on this. You've given all the information you're going to, it looks like. "They are immoral".

I feel I didn't know you, and I don't know you, and I don't know who else you might consider immoral, because I haven't seen your list.

And to answer your question, if I was giving charity to a organization that I found was made up of hookers, than yes, I would stop giving my charity. They probably don't need it anyway.

I didn't say "an organization made up of hookers". Do you think there aren't hookers in the projects you go into? Do you think there aren't any hookers who are moms of Head Start kids? I'm just guessing that you do know some hookers, just not very well.


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