Hi, everyone. My name is Charles, and I am a recovering wingnut.
Here’s my interview with Alternet’s Joshua Holland about how I saw the light and left the right: Meet the Former Right-Wing Blogger Who Realized Conservatives Are Crazy.
(That headline’s not a quote from me, by the way.) There’s a loosely edited transcript of the recording at the link.
1 |
AK-47% Tue, May 8, 2012 1:29:41pm |
I joined this site when it was a lot more conservative, but even then i appreciated the fact that one could conduct a reasonable discussion with varying viewpoints without things immediately degenerating into a shouting match.
| 3 |
Targetpractice Tue, May 8, 2012 1:32:25pm |
Is this the thread for recovering wingnuts?
| 4 |
Charles Johnson Tue, May 8, 2012 1:32:53pm |
Sorry, finally got the audio working with our new HTML5 audio player. Works with mobile devices like iPhones.
| 5 |
Kragar Tue, May 8, 2012 1:33:30pm |
re: #3 Targetpractice
Is this the thread for recovering wingnuts?
The first rule of recovering wingnut club is you don't talk about recovering wingnut club.
| 7 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, May 8, 2012 1:36:43pm |
re: #3 Targetpractice
Is this the thread for recovering wingnuts?
Not if it's Wingnut Anonymous.
Unless it's an Open Meeting.
Has there been a group conscience?
| 8 |
teresa Tue, May 8, 2012 1:39:12pm |
I read the article yesterday. It is interesting, because these are all things I didn't know about you at all, I didn't begin to read your blog until I think it was early last year or the year prior. (Time flies entirely too quickly.)
What is mostly interesting to me is that you changed your political opinion/ideology, that is a rarity among the over 50 crowd! But among rational people, eventually the rabid righteousness of the extremist reactionaries, tend to repel normal thinking people rather than attract them. IMO.
| 10 |
simoom Tue, May 8, 2012 1:44:40pm |
Three Ads Mitt Romney Helped Fund To Stop Gay Marriage buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynsk…
— Ben Smith (@BuzzFeedBen) May 8, 2012
| 11 |
wrenchwench Tue, May 8, 2012 1:46:13pm |
Yes, I did say “milieu”
And thanks for the pronunciation guide. I've been saying "millie-ooo" instead of "millie-oh". Fortunately, it hasn't come up in conversation very often.
| 13 |
Charles Johnson Tue, May 8, 2012 1:47:58pm |
I promise not to use 'milieu' again for at least 6 months.
| 15 |
celticdragon Tue, May 8, 2012 1:50:23pm |
re: #3 Targetpractice
Is this the thread for recovering wingnuts?
I'm one. Do we need a 12 step program?
| 16 |
_RememberTonyC Tue, May 8, 2012 1:52:13pm |
Charles, I never considered you a wingnut. I think one can be a responsible conservative without having to wear that label. And that is where I used to see you. However, if you considered yourself a wingnut, I think you might be lumping everyone to the right of center into that category, which is not only unfair, but incorrect. There are a number of mildly conservative Lizards on this board who I would never call wingnuts. I put myself in that category. But if you see someone like me as a wingnut because I don't vote straight "D" in every election, that is a major disappointment to me.
| 17 |
celticdragon Tue, May 8, 2012 1:52:48pm |
re: #13 Charles Johnson
I promise not to use 'milieu' again for at least 6 months.
Aww...don't do that. "Milieu" makes for a good drinking game...
:)
On Sunday nights watching GOT, the drinks are for when you see boobies or Joffrey gets bitch slapped.
| 18 |
Randall Gross Tue, May 8, 2012 1:52:50pm |
I liked it, you are getting better at these things Charles, millyoo and all.
| 19 |
Charles Johnson Tue, May 8, 2012 1:53:50pm |
re: #16 _RememberTonyC
Actually, I meant that kind of tongue-in-cheek, poking fun at myself. Certainly not as a criticism of anyone else.
| 20 |
Mattand Tue, May 8, 2012 1:53:55pm |
Good interview. LOL'd at the opening bumper music.
| 21 |
celticdragon Tue, May 8, 2012 1:54:15pm |
re: #5 Kragar
The first rule of recovering wingnut club is you don't talk about recovering wingnut club.
If it's your first time in recovering wingnut club, you have to go full metal wingnut...
| 22 |
Targetpractice Tue, May 8, 2012 1:57:18pm |
re: #15 celticdragon
I'm one. Do we need a 12 step program?
Based upon my own experience, I can only think of a three-step program.
Step One: Acknowledge that the far-right has gone out of their collective gourds due to anger that Obama got elected.
Step Two: Realize that anger is not a valid argument.
Step Three: Don't just tell far-right to go to hell, give them directions.
| 23 |
Killgore Trout Tue, May 8, 2012 1:59:48pm |
I went through Joshua Holland's blog. He seems to be a supporter of the radical and violent OWS protests and even shilled for Occupy Oakland later on in the same broadcast (although I couldn't stomach listening to the whole thing). He's a supporter of the cyber terrorists from Anon and supportive of hateful bigot MJ Rosenberg too. I don't expect purity and nobody's perfect but I find him a bit extreme as well. Not somebody I would want to associate with if I were avoiding extremists.
| 24 |
Daniel Ballard Tue, May 8, 2012 2:02:36pm |
| 25 |
Killgore Trout Tue, May 8, 2012 2:02:49pm |
He's a fan of traitor Bradley Manning too: Bradley Manning Suffering Extreme Isolation Prison Torture by Our Goverment
Courageous Whistleblower 'Physically Deteriorating'
By Joshua Holland
| 26 |
SidewaysQuark Tue, May 8, 2012 2:04:18pm |
I still think conservatives are occasionally right about some things. Unfortunately, it's like digging a lost diamond ring out of a garbage disposal.
| 27 |
jaunte Tue, May 8, 2012 2:04:30pm |
I don't know that being interviewed by someone means that you automatically subscribe to all their views.
| 28 |
Charles Johnson Tue, May 8, 2012 2:05:06pm |
re: #27 jaunte
I don't know that being interviewed by someone means that you automatically subscribe to all their views.
I hope not. I was interviewed by Matt Drudge once too.
| 29 |
AK-47% Tue, May 8, 2012 2:05:49pm |
re: #15 celticdragon
I'm one. Do we need a 12 step program?
1) renounce birtherism
2) accept the fact that trickle-down economics is a fallacy
3) accept that there are things that the Free Market cannot be entrusted to do properly
4) accept the idea that small government also means staying out of issues of sexuality and private morals
5) accept the fact that we cannot and will not close our borders and institute a system of registration, so undocumented aliens are a part of our society
6) accept the fact that creationism cannot be verified or disproven objectively, and thus has no place in a science classroom
7) accept the fact that there are over a billion Muslims in the world and we cannot gain anything by declaring war on them
8) accept that Christianity played a role in shaping America, but that America was founded on the principle that no particular interpretation of Christian (or other) scriptures is to be given preferential treatment
9) although there were other causes, the Civil War was mainly about slavery
10) race is still an issue in law enforcement, housing, education, employment and social mobility in America
11) We cannot solve our political probems by throwing our military weight around
12) We need to listen to scientists, even when their findings do not correspond to our ideology.
| 30 |
bratwurst Tue, May 8, 2012 2:08:25pm |
re: #27 jaunte
I don't know that being interviewed by someone means that you automatically subscribe to all their views.
It is when you make it the mission of your life to french kiss the Magical Balance Fairy.
| 31 |
SidewaysQuark Tue, May 8, 2012 2:08:38pm |
re: #29 Expand Your Ground
2) accept the fact that trickle-down economics is a fallacy
Well, personally, I think the fallacy there isn't in that economics doesn't trickle down (it does, to a certain extent), but rather in that the "trickle" works in both directions.
| 32 |
AK-47% Tue, May 8, 2012 2:10:53pm |
re: #31 SidewaysQuark
Well, personally, I think the fallacy there isn't in that economics doesn't trickle down (it does, to a certain extent), but rather in that the "trickle" works in both directions.
Yunno, it even sort of worked in the days of national economies, but now that capital is free to follow the path of maximum profits, employers are going to seek the lowest wages worldwide, and all we get is minimum-wage jobs at the Wal-Mart selling cheap imported consumer goods...
| 33 |
celticdragon Tue, May 8, 2012 2:11:09pm |
re: #25 Killgore Trout
He's a fan of traitor Bradley Manning too: Bradley Manning Suffering Extreme Isolation Prison Torture by Our Goverment
You should also probably post this on your own page on the sidebar.
Also, Manning has not been convicted of anything as of yet, and I personally do not find any claim credible that he is somehow a traitor or colluded with some sort of enemy. He released diplomatic and other secret information in order to prove some sort of "point", however misguided, for public distribution, but to accuse him of actual treason seems to be excessive and almost certainly unprovable given the actual Constitutional definition of treason.
| 34 |
SidewaysQuark Tue, May 8, 2012 2:11:30pm |
re: #29 Expand Your Ground
6) accept the fact that creationism cannot be verified or disproven objectively, and thus has no place in a science classroom
Many creationist fallacies CAN be disproven objectively, though - claims that geological and fossil evidence supports a global flood, for example. That particular view has been discredited for well around 300 years (since long before Darwin), yet creationists would have us "teach the controversy" around it, as if it's still being actively vetted.
| 35 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, May 8, 2012 2:12:18pm |
re: #31 SidewaysQuark
Well, personally, I think the fallacy there isn't in that economics doesn't trickle down (it does, to a certain extent), but rather in that the "trickle" works in both directions.
Like the difference in male/female communication structures --men = top down
women -center of a wagon wheel. . . .
I think economics is more like a wagon wheel --or a ripple in a lake. It goes in all directions and can't be forecast or controlled once it starts.
| 36 |
AK-47% Tue, May 8, 2012 2:12:28pm |
re: #34 SidewaysQuark
Many creationist fallacies CAN be disproven objectively, though - claims that geological and fossil evidence supports a global flood, for example. That particular view has been discredited for well around 300 years (since long before Darwin), yet creationists would have us "teach the controversy" around it, as if it's still being actively vetted.
the role (or existence) of a creator cannot be verified or rejectec by science. that is the point
| 37 |
Kragar Tue, May 8, 2012 2:12:29pm |
GOP Newsletter Calls for Armed Revolution if Obama Re-Elected
The Greene County, Virginia Republican Committee publishes a monthly newsletter for members called “The Constitutional Conservatives.” The newsletter is heavy on Tea Party rhetoric about how Obama and liberals are ruining America, and so forth. But even by these standards, an item in the March newsletter stands out.
In the “Whitehouse Watchdog” column, editor Ponch McPhee says that American cannot survive four more years under Obama, a “political socialist ideologue” who is “unlike anything world history has ever witnessed or recognized.” McPhee argues that Americans will have no option “but armed revolution should we fail with the power of the vote in November:”
| 38 |
darthstar Tue, May 8, 2012 2:13:11pm |
re: #28 Charles Johnson
I hope not. I was interviewed by Matt Drudge once too.
He doesn't have views...he just links to those of others.
| 39 |
celticdragon Tue, May 8, 2012 2:13:44pm |
re: #37 Kragar
GOP Newsletter Calls for Armed Revolution if Obama Re-Elected
Heh! So much for the "violent Occupy" hippy stuff...
| 40 |
SidewaysQuark Tue, May 8, 2012 2:13:52pm |
re: #32 Expand Your Ground
Yunno, it even sort of worked in the days of national economies, but now that capital is free to follow the path of maximum profits, employers are going to seek the lowest wages worldwide, and all we get is minimum-wage jobs at the Wal-Mart selling cheap imported consumer goods...
Well yes - and hence my disclaimer of "to an extent". The wealthy do give handsome grants to universities when times are good for them, for example. (Though the ugly strings sometimes attached to this is cause for a thread of its own....)
| 41 |
Killgore Trout Tue, May 8, 2012 2:14:29pm |
re: #29 Expand Your Ground
I think that's a pretty fair list. I would further clarify this one...
11) We cannot solve our political probems by throwing our military weight around
I was laughing at the terrorism conspiracy theories, lefties have a problem with terrorism. Wingnuts have a similar problem with diplomacy. It just doesn't compute with them and they seem to think that even under Bush the State Dept was a rogue agency with its own agenda. International affairs require a balance of diplomacy and, under some circumstances, military action. There needs to be a balance.
| 42 |
Killgore Trout Tue, May 8, 2012 2:15:30pm |
re: #33 celticdragon
You should also probably post this on your own page on the sidebar.
I decline your invitation to take my opinion to the back of the proverbial bus but thanks for the offer.
| 43 |
celticdragon Tue, May 8, 2012 2:16:30pm |
re: #42 Killgore Trout
I decline your invitation to take my opinion to the back of the proverbial bus but thanks for the offer.
And threadjacking on this subect for the nth time is supposed to make us take notice...?
| 44 |
AK-47% Tue, May 8, 2012 2:16:41pm |
re: #37 Kragar
GOP Newsletter Calls for Armed Revolution if Obama Re-Elected
This is the key image behind the Tea Party: armed uprising against a tyrannical government.
But the last time I checked, our government was elected freely and fairly.
Why do these people hate democracy?
| 45 |
allegro Tue, May 8, 2012 2:16:52pm |
The fairy is furiously dancing a jig this afternoon.
| 46 |
SidewaysQuark Tue, May 8, 2012 2:17:35pm |
re: #36 Expand Your Ground
the role (or existence) of a creator cannot be verified or rejectec by science. that is the point
True that. Depends on which strain of "creationism" you're talking about, I guess. When I think "creationism", I think the "scientific creationism" nonsense. Belief in a Creator isn't necessarily in conflict with science, and I wouldn't (personally) group it in with "creationism", but that's all just a matter of semantics. (The very semantics which are repeatedly abused by extreme creationists to make audacious claims like "85+% of Americans are Creationists....")
| 47 |
Kragar Tue, May 8, 2012 2:17:44pm |
re: #44 Expand Your Ground
This is the key image behind the Tea Party: armed uprising against a tyrannical government.
But the last time I checked, our government was elected freely and fairly.
Why do these people hate democracy?
The President is near...
| 48 |
celticdragon Tue, May 8, 2012 2:18:17pm |
re: #44 Expand Your Ground
This is the key image behind the Tea Party: armed uprising against a tyrannical government.
But the last time I checked, our government was elected freely and fairly.
Why do these people hate democracy?
They convince thenselves that they are defending democracy from the secret liberal cabals that hijack it away from them. There is no reasoning with them on this.
| 49 |
darthstar Tue, May 8, 2012 2:18:37pm |
God I fucking love Biden...here's a non-gaffe that he acknowledged as he did it.
Biden makes sign of cross at Rabbinical meet-up.
You can't take the Catholic out of that guy...
| 51 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, May 8, 2012 2:20:55pm |
re: #46 SidewaysQuark
True that. Depends on which strain of "creationism" you're talking about, I guess. When I think "creationism", I think the "scientific creationism" nonsense. Belief in a Creator isn't necessarily in conflict with science, and I wouldn't (personally) group it in with "creationism", but that's all just a matter of semantics. (The very semantics which are repeatedly abused by extreme creationists to make audacious claims like "85+% of Americans are Creationists...")
You are correct. I never got the idea anyway. If you believe in a higher being then the idea that that being created the universe follows--no? It doesn't follow that you have an issue with Evolution.
I mean, you don't worship the God of Abraham and believe the a centipede created the universe.
| 53 |
Obdicut Tue, May 8, 2012 2:26:26pm |
re: #42 Killgore Trout
Comparing someone telling you to create a page to a black person being made to sit in the back of the bus is pathetic.
| 54 |
Eventual Carrion Tue, May 8, 2012 2:26:26pm |
re: #37 Kragar
GOP Newsletter Calls for Armed Revolution if Obama Re-Elected
I hope they realize that everyone that doesn't accept their lunacy isn't a bleeding heart, passivise liberal. There are those of us that will shoot back with deadly accuracy.
* Not a threat, statement of fact.
| 55 |
Sheila Broflovski Tue, May 8, 2012 2:26:39pm |
re: #28 Charles Johnson
I hope not. I was interviewed by Matt Drudge once too.
And by Dennis Prager, several times.
| 56 |
wrenchwench Tue, May 8, 2012 2:29:23pm |
I appreciate the fine example of willingness to reconsider one's ideas, willingness to say one was wrong, and, especially, willingness to tell others they could do the same.
| 58 |
Obdicut Tue, May 8, 2012 2:30:15pm |
re: #23 Killgore Trout
I'm not really seeing anything like the 'support' you're alleging in his blog, aside from that for Manning, which I think is foolish of him.
Can you substantiate your other charges?
| 59 |
Bulworth Tue, May 8, 2012 2:33:43pm |
Well, I'm grateful. LGF is my destination of choice these days.
| 60 |
Killgore Trout Tue, May 8, 2012 2:33:46pm |
re: #58 Obdicut
He also flirts with forms of 9-11 truth...
9/11: Wild Conspiracies and Rational Concerns
Even when you cut through the conspiracy theories about 9/11 and head straight for the facts, the government's version still seems fuzzy.
....
There's a pretty clear dividing line between the idea that the Bush administration's ideologues used the attacks of 9/11 to consolidate power and the idea that they participated in those attacks. The former is a fairly mainstream liberal critique; the latter is rank conspiracy theory, unsupported by any serious evidence.Having taken a long bath in the world of 9/11 conspiracism, I still think the most likely scenario is that the Bush administration was obsessed with rival powers -- Russia and China -- and ignored the terror issue. After the attacks, the security agencies were under enormous, unrelenting pressure to show Americans they were in control and they needed to show that they were on top of the investigation at all costs. These things would certainly require sanitizing in the 9/11 report and other official narratives for the sake of expediency and creating the appearance that the government was on the job.
Having said that, I'd also be receptive to evidence that the Bush administration had a far greater degree of knowledge about the how and why of the attacks, and looked the other way and let them happen. All I'd need to buy that would be a bit of evidence.
...
But that kind of evidence is almost certainly not forthcoming; there will be no further serious investigation into the events of 9/11. Ironically, that's largely because of the 9/11 "truth movement" itself -- by embracing fanciful notions that the government blew up the World Trade Center with thermite charges, or that the Pentagon was hit by a missile -- makes it hard for the rest of us to express rational skepticism of the official account.
| 62 |
Talking Point Detective Tue, May 8, 2012 2:36:45pm |
re: #41 Killgore Trout
lefties have a problem with terrorism.
I'm curious as to what that means. Could you elaborate?
| 63 |
Obdicut Tue, May 8, 2012 2:37:12pm |
re: #60 Killgore Trout
It's very slight flirting, but what he says is the most likely scenario is the perfectly rational one.
When did Anonymous get declared a terrorist organization, by the way?
| 64 |
Talking Point Detective Tue, May 8, 2012 2:38:21pm |
| 65 |
Decatur Deb Tue, May 8, 2012 2:39:52pm |
The socialists take over Paris, and suddenly Charles is speaking French !!
| 66 |
researchok Tue, May 8, 2012 2:40:06pm |
re: #64 Talking Point Detective
Yeah- it was low key, rational and not the usual 'Hitler is around the corner' type of discussion.
| 67 |
Charles Johnson Tue, May 8, 2012 2:40:24pm |
BTW, the headline about "Realized Conservatives Are Crazy" didn't come from either me or Joshua - he tweeted to me that he didn't write that. I guess another editor did.
| 68 |
Obdicut Tue, May 8, 2012 2:41:05pm |
re: #67 Charles Johnson
It's a pretty needlessly needling headline.
| 69 |
Killgore Trout Tue, May 8, 2012 2:41:58pm |
re: #62 Talking Point Detective
I'm curious as to what that means. Could you elaborate?
Ooops, sorry. That was an incomplete sentence. This morning I pointed out this conspiracy theory on the rec list at Dkos...
Calling BS on "Underwear Bomb Plot": Blatant Fear-Mongering As Conflict Escalates in Yemen
It is a shortcoming of progressives that they don;t deal with terrorism well. I was trying to make the analogy that one of the things conservatives handle equally badly is diplomacy. They have an instinctive distaste for it.
| 70 |
_RememberTonyC Tue, May 8, 2012 2:42:22pm |
re: #19 Charles Johnson
Actually, I meant that kind of tongue-in-cheek, poking fun at myself. Certainly not as a criticism of anyone else.
really good to hear ... thanks
| 71 |
darthstar Tue, May 8, 2012 2:45:00pm |
Hard to see how someone who left public office 1/07 and hasn't had job or exec position since can claim credit for anything that's happened— Daniel Gross (@grossdm) May 8, 2012
| 72 |
Talking Point Detective Tue, May 8, 2012 2:45:34pm |
re: #69 Killgore Trout
Ooops, sorry. That was an incomplete sentence. This morning I pointed out this conspiracy theory on the rec list at Dkos...
Calling BS on "Underwear Bomb Plot": Blatant Fear-Mongering As Conflict Escalates in Yemen
It is a shortcoming of progressives that they don;t deal with terrorism well. I was trying to make the analogy that one of the things conservatives handle equally badly is diplomacy. They have an instinctive distaste for it.
So you go from one page at DKos to "progressives" and "lefties."
Do you see any problem there? You lump a diverse group under one undifferentiated umbrella.
You do this repeatedly. I find it interesting that you do it on this thread, because this is precisely the problem that I had with LGF back in the day.
The added irony is that you seem to object to sensationalist media reporting that engages in the very same kind of unsophisticated analysis at the drop of a hat.
| 73 |
Obdicut Tue, May 8, 2012 2:48:06pm |
re: #69 Killgore Trout
Oh, those progressives! Those conservatives!
Some of the best diplomats this country ever had were conservatives. Some of the most far-seeing people on terrorism have been progressives.
| 74 |
researchok Tue, May 8, 2012 2:48:38pm |
re: #69 Killgore Trout
There is some merit to your argument but all in all, Obama has proved to be outstanding on national security- his base be damned (recall he stood firm and kept Guantanamo open, ramped up drone attacks on suspected terror targets, etc).
Like conservatives, progressives can't be lumped into a monolithic group.
Plenty of progressives in positions of authority are unbending on terror and national security- and there are the likes of Ron Paul, conservatives who advocate closing their eyes and clicking their heels together three times in the hope terror will go away.
| 75 |
Killgore Trout Tue, May 8, 2012 2:51:59pm |
re: #72 Talking Point Detective
So you go from one page at DKos to "progressives" and "lefties."
Do you see any problem there? You lump a diverse group under one undifferentiated umbrella.
Our American political language lacks clarity. I was intentionally avoiding the term "liberal", I agree that progressive wasn't the best term. I think lefty or leftist would have been the best choice. Maybe Moonbat but I was trying to avoid derogative terms.
| 76 |
Killgore Trout Tue, May 8, 2012 2:52:36pm |
re: #74 researchok
There is some merit to your argument but all in all, Obama has proved to be outstanding on national security- his base be damned (recall he stood firm and kept Guantanamo open, ramped up drone attacks on suspected terror targets, etc).
Like conservatives, progressives can't be lumped into a monolithic group.
Plenty of progressives in positions of authority are unbending on terror and national security- and there are the likes of Ron Paul, conservatives who advocate closing their eyes and clicking their heels together three times in the hope terror will go away.
Agreed.
| 77 |
Talking Point Detective Tue, May 8, 2012 2:53:27pm |
re: #69 Killgore Trout
Ooops, sorry. That was an incomplete sentence. This morning I pointed out this conspiracy theory on the rec list at Dkos...
Calling BS on "Underwear Bomb Plot": Blatant Fear-Mongering As Conflict Escalates in Yemen
It is a shortcoming of progressives that they don;t deal with terrorism well. I was trying to make the analogy that one of the things conservatives handle equally badly is diplomacy. They have an instinctive distaste for it.
As an example of "lefties" you excerpted what you called a conspiracy theory. That is about as accurate as excerpting Alex Jones for an example of "conservative" ideology.
The question here would be whether or not the attribute of "not handling terrorism well" - whatever that means is as representative of "lefties" as distaste for diplomacy is of conservatives.
What do you mean by "lefties" don't handle terrorism well?
| 78 |
Kragar Tue, May 8, 2012 2:53:45pm |
Heartland facing 'mutiny' from donors, staff
I'm trying to imagine what the initial conversation was like at the Heartland Institute's headquarters. Someone must have said something like, "I've got an idea. As part of our campaign against climate science, let's put up billboards equating those who believe scientific evidence with famous madmen. That'll work wonders to get our message out."
It must have seemed like a good idea at the time, because that's what the strange, far-right group did, putting up billboards showing "some of the world's most notorious killers," including "Unabomber" Ted Kaczynski, who accept climate science. It followed a child-like logical fallacy: if a bad person believes in scientific evidence, then scientific evidence must be wrong.
First, Rep. James Sensenbrenner (R-Wis.), a conservative climate-change denier, said he no longer wanted to participate in the group's upcoming conference. Then, the Heartland Institute started losing corporate sponsors. Now, E&E's Evan Lehmann reports the fiasco is "prompting a mutiny among its Washington-based staff, which is decamping for less volatile surroundings."
| 79 |
researchok Tue, May 8, 2012 2:55:47pm |
re: #77 Talking Point Detective
I'd say hardcore moonbats- the crowd who blames ourselves for our problems, truthers, etc.
Fortunately, a small minority. Of idiots.
| 81 |
Killgore Trout Tue, May 8, 2012 2:58:53pm |
re: #77 Talking Point Detective
What do you mean by "lefties" don't handle terrorism well?
Something about terrorism doesn't compute well with many lefties. They are often prone to conspiracy theories in an attempt to understand it. Under the Bush years it was pretty bad but the problem still lingers. It's one of the reasons why they're susceptible to the Paulians and 9-11 truth movement. It got so bad that Kos had to bad 9-11 truth stuff on his site. Although I'm not much of a Kos fan I think it was the right thing for him to do. It's a problem and he made his attempt to deal with it.
| 82 |
Talking Point Detective Tue, May 8, 2012 2:59:18pm |
re: #75 Killgore Trout
Our American political language lacks clarity. I was intentionally avoiding the term "liberal", I agree that progressive wasn't the best term. I think lefty or leftist would have been the best choice. Maybe Moonbat but I was trying to avoid derogative terms.
Then what do you mean, more specifically, by "progressives" or "moonbats" don't handle terrorism well? Do you mean that conspiracy theorists don't handle terrorism well?
The issue I'm pointing to here is the inaccuracy I've seen in the past from you - an inaccuracy that is rooted in your failure to differentiate leftist ideologies accurately and indiscriminately lump people under the umbrella of "moonbat." I've seen the same done on the other side, let's say in labeling Tea Partiers as inherently "proto-Nazi."
But labeling Tea Partiers as proto-Nazis doesn't create some magical balance for equating "progressives" with "moonbats" or conspiracy theorists - or people who support the goals of OWS as "supporting" rape and stabbing.
| 83 |
Decatur Deb Tue, May 8, 2012 2:59:25pm |
re: #67 Charles Johnson
BTW, the headline about "Realized Conservatives Are Crazy" didn't come from either me or Joshua - he tweeted to me that he didn't write that. I guess another editor did.
The comments of some of the liberal readers there are a bit spooky--their theme is that you are still a wingnut, and that your support for the President exposes how conservative he is.
| 84 |
Obdicut Tue, May 8, 2012 2:59:52pm |
re: #81 Killgore Trout
mething about terrorism doesn't compute well with many lefties. They are often prone to conspiracy theories in an attempt to understand it.
Can you provide any support for this? Or are you just talking about the fringe whackos, and for some reason repeatedly trying to identify them as all 'lefties' and 'progressives'?
| 85 |
Talking Point Detective Tue, May 8, 2012 3:01:59pm |
re: #79 researchok
I'd say hardcore moonbats- the crowd who blames ourselves for our problems, truthers, etc.
Fortunately, a small minority. Of idiots.
I have seen the "blame America first" label used indiscriminately to deliberately undermine legitimate foreign policy analysis. It is propagandistic rhetoric, IMO. It was a big part of the Bush administration foreign policy advocacy and it lead us into a disastrous war.
In my view, you need to be more specific to have a valid argument. "Blaiming ourselves," IMO, is not the same as saying that our actions have predictable consequences, although the two are often equated.
| 86 |
Varek Raith Tue, May 8, 2012 3:04:06pm |
| 87 |
Talking Point Detective Tue, May 8, 2012 3:04:08pm |
re: #81 Killgore Trout
Something about terrorism doesn't compute well with many lefties. They are often prone to conspiracy theories in an attempt to understand it. Under the Bush years it was pretty bad but the problem still lingers. It's one of the reasons why they're susceptible to the Paulians and 9-11 truth movement. It got so bad that Kos had to bad 9-11 truth stuff on his site. Although I'm not much of a Kos fan I think it was the right thing for him to do. It's a problem and he made his attempt to deal with it.
I know a lot of "lefties." Not one of them is susceptible to the Paulians or the 9-11 truth movement.
What do you mean by:
Something about terrorism doesn't compute well with many lefties.
Do you mean that many lefties see the targeting of America by terrorists as having some connection to the history of American foreign policy?
| 88 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, May 8, 2012 3:05:36pm |
re: #81 Killgore Trout
Something about terrorism doesn't compute well with many lefties. They are often prone to conspiracy theories in an attempt to understand it.
When it happens, it's often a result of previous right-wing mishandling of the issue. Not an excuse for silliness, for sure, since people should control their reactions, but nevertheless the paranoia is based on distaste for real stuff some "right-wing authority figures" did in the past.
| 89 |
Killgore Trout Tue, May 8, 2012 3:05:45pm |
re: #83 Decatur Deb
The comments of some of the liberal readers there are a bit spooky--their theme is that you are still a wingnut, and that your support for the President exposes how conservative he is.
Wow. The comments are filled with all kinds of crazy...
I was brutally raped by my best friend because he was accepting that 'conservative' message from the larger society.
...
There were a lot of people saying I was crazy for only one reason, I didn't buy into their collective fantasy. They convinced my husband that I was an "enemy combatant" and then, after I was raped, the police told me it was not a crime. A lot of people like that who should have helped me, just encouraged it and covered it up instead. I was devastated, just as they wanted.That was a conspiracy to commit torture and it was based on my religion. Do I have to sue my family for torturing me? Or are the politicians and bloggers who were creating a false climate of fear against me going to apologize instead?
...
A white person would NEVER apologize or expect it of others, white people refuse to accept any responsibility and will find a scape goat instead if at all possible. I call that "the culture of rape."
Yikes!
| 90 |
Talking Point Detective Tue, May 8, 2012 3:05:58pm |
re: #84 Obdicut
Can you provide any support for this? Or are you just talking about the fringe whackos, and for some reason repeatedly trying to identify them as all 'lefties' and 'progressives'?
I'm still waiting for the explanation to rise above tautology.
| 91 |
Decatur Deb Tue, May 8, 2012 3:06:19pm |
re: #85 Talking Point Detective
I have seen the "blame America first" label used indiscriminately to deliberately undermine legitimate foreign policy analysis. It is propagandistic rhetoric, IMO. It was a big part of the Bush administration foreign policy advocacy and it lead us into a disastrous war.
In my view, you need to be more specific to have a valid argument. "Blaiming ourselves," IMO, is not the same as saying that our actions have predictable consequences, although the two are often equated.
Because we are both powerful and very ideologically divided, it would be extraordinary if many of our problems were not self-inflicted. Case in point--the drug prohibition fiasco.
| 93 |
Decatur Deb Tue, May 8, 2012 3:08:07pm |
re: #89 Killgore Trout
Wow. The comments are filled with all kinds of crazy...
Yikes!
That was perhaps the most prolific 'unforgiving' commenter. From the little text there, she seems traumatized/mentally ill. The general run of comments was lefty-sane.
| 94 |
Varek Raith Tue, May 8, 2012 3:08:53pm |
| 95 |
Talking Point Detective Tue, May 8, 2012 3:09:15pm |
re: #91 Decatur Deb
Case in point--the drug prohibition fiasco.
See, Moonbats always blame America first!
| 96 |
Killgore Trout Tue, May 8, 2012 3:10:39pm |
re: #83 Decatur Deb
The comments of some of the liberal readers there are a bit spooky--their theme is that you are still a wingnut, and that your support for the President exposes how conservative he is.
Yeah, as I get further into the comments that seems to be a prevailing theme: Obama is such a warmonger that even wingnuts support him. Kinda funny yet sad.
| 97 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, May 8, 2012 3:11:28pm |
re: #49 darthstar
God I fucking love Biden...here's a non-gaffe that he acknowledged as he did it.
Biden makes sign of cross at Rabbinical meet-up.
You can't take the Catholic out of that guy...
My grandmother genuflected at my bat mitvah. It happens.
| 98 |
Decatur Deb Tue, May 8, 2012 3:12:40pm |
re: #97 SanFranciscoZionist
My grandmother genuflected at my bat mitvah. It happens.
She was just making sure your Mary-Janes weren't too shiny.
| 99 |
Obdicut Tue, May 8, 2012 3:13:09pm |
re: #96 Killgore Trout
There are very few comments. One of them is of the type you describe. Another says that Obama is conservative.
Unless there's a whole bunch of comments i'm missing?
| 100 |
Talking Point Detective Tue, May 8, 2012 3:14:11pm |
re: #79 researchok
I'd say hardcore moonbats- the crowd who blames ourselves for our problems, truthers, etc.
Fortunately, a small minority. Of idiots.
My point above was that the mis-labeling of people as "blame America firsters" was far more negatively impactful than a small number of idiots who reflexively think that America causes all negative geopolitical phenomena.
| 101 |
Decatur Deb Tue, May 8, 2012 3:14:17pm |
re: #99 Obdicut
There are very few comments. One of them is of the type you describe. Another says that Obama is conservative.
Unless there's a whole bunch of comments i'm missing?
I think the count I got was about 27, found by hitting the FB comment block.
| 102 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Tue, May 8, 2012 3:19:34pm |
Noooooo!
I gnash my terrible teeth and I show my terrible claws and I roll my terrible eyes!
I'm going to Where the Wild Things Are, because this place is too sad today.
[Link: www.cnn.com...]
| 103 |
Randall Gross Tue, May 8, 2012 3:20:27pm |
Mitt being mitt, it's an affliction he can't help...
| 104 |
Kragar Tue, May 8, 2012 3:20:33pm |
Your defense dollars at work
Fighter Pilots Claim Intimidation Over F-22 Raptor Jets
Two F-22 Raptor pilots have said publicly that not only are they afraid to fly the most expensive fighter jets in American history, but the military has attempted to silence them and other F-22 pilots by threatening their careers.
"There have been squadrons that have stood down over concerns. And there's been threat of reprisals," F-22 pilot Josh Wilson told CBS News' "60 Minutes" Sunday. "There's been threat of flying evaluation boards clipping our wings and doing ground jobs. And... in my case, potentially getting booted out of the Air Force.
"So right now there's an example being set of, 'Hey, if you speak up about safety, you're going to be out of the organization,'" Wilson said.
Despite the Air Force's glowing descriptions of the next-generation jet as America's future of air dominance, as an ABC News "Nightline" investigation broadcast last week found, unknown problems with the plane's oxygen system have already contributed to the death of one pilot, the near-death of another and mid-air scares for dozens more.
| 105 |
Decatur Deb Tue, May 8, 2012 3:23:09pm |
re: #103 Randall Gross
Mitt being mitt, it's an affliction he can't help...
[Embedded content]
If the TP/GOP leadership could have one wish, it's that videorecording would be uninvented.
| 106 |
Kragar Tue, May 8, 2012 3:23:10pm |
Bomber in Plot on U.S. Airliner Said to Be a Double Agent
The would-be suicide bomber dispatched by the Yemen branch of Al Qaeda last month to blow up a United States-bound airliner was actually a double agent who infiltrated the terrorist group and volunteered for the suicide mission, American and foreign officials said Tuesday.
In an extraordinary intelligence coup, the agent left Yemen, traveling by way of the United Arab Emirates, and delivered both the innovative bomb designed for his air attack and critical information on the group’s leaders to the C.I.A., Saudi and other foreign intelligence agencies.
After spending weeks at the center of the terrorist network’s most dangerous affiliate, Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, the agent provided critical information that permitted the C.I.A. to direct the drone strike on Sunday that killed Fahd Mohammed Ahmed al-Quso, the group’s external operations director and a suspect in the bombing of the American destroyer Cole in Yemen in 2000.
He also handed over the bomb, designed by the group’s top explosives expert to be invisible to airport security, to the F.B.I., which is analyzing its properties.
| 107 |
Randall Gross Tue, May 8, 2012 3:23:21pm |
Then there's lila rose
| 109 |
Killgore Trout Tue, May 8, 2012 3:24:34pm |
| 110 |
Killgore Trout Tue, May 8, 2012 3:25:20pm |
| 111 |
Obdicut Tue, May 8, 2012 3:25:29pm |
| 113 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, May 8, 2012 3:27:29pm |
re: #111 Obdicut
Guess we did hear of him again, eh?
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
If KT says something is a safe bet, bet on the opposite ;)
| 114 |
Killgore Trout Tue, May 8, 2012 3:27:57pm |
re: #111 Obdicut
Guess we did hear of him again, eh?
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
That explains the cryptic statement about the bomber not being accounted for yet not posing a threat. Nice!
| 115 |
Obdicut Tue, May 8, 2012 3:29:43pm |
re: #114 Killgore Trout
Yes, it does. I have no idea why you thought, from a cryptic statement, that anything was a 'safe bet'. Kinda weird.
| 116 |
dragonfire1981 Tue, May 8, 2012 3:30:54pm |
| 117 |
Obdicut Tue, May 8, 2012 3:31:26pm |
re: #116 dragonfire1981
It was Seamus. Putting him up on the roof of the car was just training him to resist interrogation.
| 118 |
Killgore Trout Tue, May 8, 2012 3:31:31pm |
re: #115 Obdicut
Yes, it does. I have no idea why you thought, from a cryptic statement, that anything was a 'safe bet'. Kinda weird.
I thought he was either killed, in a CIA blacksite or rendered to a "friendly" country. I never would have guessed he was the mole. That's a seriously bold operation.
| 119 |
dragonfire1981 Tue, May 8, 2012 3:31:45pm |
You know until this post I'd never actually heard Charles speak, but I'd given him a "mental voice" based on his posting style and picture.
As it turns out, he sounds much like the voice I gave him, which is rare because I am usually WAY off.
| 120 |
Varek Raith Tue, May 8, 2012 3:32:25pm |
| 121 |
Obdicut Tue, May 8, 2012 3:33:43pm |
re: #118 Killgore Trout
Yes, I know what you thought. I have no idea why you thought it was a safe bet. Seemed like a pretty wild stab in the dark.
Of course, this information might also not be true. Strangely enough, with covert operations one often can't make safe bets.
| 122 |
Decatur Deb Tue, May 8, 2012 3:33:46pm |
re: #112 Kragar
"WEEZ IN YUR TERROR CELLZ, ROBBIN YUR BOMBZ!"
Bad day to be a Yemeni al Queda recruiter.
| 123 |
Varek Raith Tue, May 8, 2012 3:34:58pm |
| 124 |
Mattand Tue, May 8, 2012 3:35:01pm |
re: #112 Kragar
"WEEZ IN YUR TERROR CELLZ, ROBBIN YUR BOMBZ!"
All your Fruit of the Loom are belong to us.
| 125 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, May 8, 2012 3:35:39pm |
re: #121 Obdicut
Yes, I know what you thought. I have no idea why you thought it was a safe bet. Seemed like a pretty wild stab in the dark.
No, it was a completely legitimate thought process. Almost like concluding that Zimmerman's site was not only a fake, but an obvious fake based on a Paine quote.
| 126 |
Targetpractice Tue, May 8, 2012 3:36:09pm |
| 127 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, May 8, 2012 3:36:56pm |
| 128 |
Randall Gross Tue, May 8, 2012 3:37:04pm |
Meanwhile, on the domestic terror front the authorities are also having great success:
| 129 |
Killgore Trout Tue, May 8, 2012 3:38:27pm |
re: #121 Obdicut
Yes, I know what you thought. I have no idea why you thought it was a safe bet. Seemed like a pretty wild stab in the dark.
Because I don't think we've seen an operation like this before. It's also interesting that since this was probably CIA/NSA (or whatever) they were looking for actionable intelligence and legal concerns about entrapment for the purposes of a trial weren't considered. Boom! No trial for you!
| 130 |
HappyWarrior Tue, May 8, 2012 3:39:18pm |
Funny, I remember thinking infiltrating AQ would be an idea to consider.
| 131 |
Mich-again Tue, May 8, 2012 3:40:31pm |
Mitt hatched the whole plan to infiltrate AQ. I am glad that the CIA followed his advice. /
| 132 |
Obdicut Tue, May 8, 2012 3:40:36pm |
re: #129 Killgore Trout
Because I don't think we've seen an operation like this before.
Seriously? You think this was the first use of a double agent in intelligence history?
You can't be thinking something that silly, so what do you actually mean?
| 133 |
HappyWarrior Tue, May 8, 2012 3:41:23pm |
re: #131 Mich-again
Mitt hatched the whole plan to infiltrate AQ. I am glad that the CIA followed his advice. /
Thanks Mitt!
| 134 |
Mich-again Tue, May 8, 2012 3:43:33pm |
re: #133 HappyWarrior
Thanks Mitt!
Its true, this is right from the NYT article..
Officials said Tuesday night that risk has now been “mitigated,” evidently by moving both the agent and his relatives to safe locations.
| 135 |
Obdicut Tue, May 8, 2012 3:46:14pm |
I'd assume we've been trying to infiltrate Al Queda from the start. It's a (heh) pretty standard intelligence technique. For awhile, it seemed we were neglecting humint in favor of signals stuff and crude torture techniques, but I bet the veteran agents who know that kind of stuff is unreliable continued to press forward with sound human intelligence strategies.
It was one of the more foolish conceits to think that we could replace the intricacy of intelligence work with satellites, email interception, and waterboarding.
| 136 |
gwangung Tue, May 8, 2012 3:48:27pm |
re: #135 Obdicut
It was one of the more foolish conceits to think that we could replace the intricacy of intelligence work with satellites, email interception, and waterboarding.
Waddya mean "was"? I think Republicans still think you can do that; they certainly don't seem to appreciate what human intelligence can do.
| 137 |
simoom Tue, May 8, 2012 3:50:56pm |
re: #106 Kragar
Heh, wasn't Rep. Peter King, just earlier today, calling for congressional investigations into the Obama admin for not releasing enough info on this operation to the public, saying it was undermining trust in the FBI / DHS or something? :p
| 138 |
researchok Tue, May 8, 2012 3:51:59pm |
re: #85 Talking Point Detective
Blaming ourselves, as in Bush plotted to blow up the WTC or we deserved 9/11 because of our foreign policy.
I'm not discounting cynical political exploitation but there is an element of way out there types- as I noted a small minority of nut jobs, not a blanket condemnation of policies I may or may not disagree with.
| 139 |
researchok Tue, May 8, 2012 3:53:37pm |
re: #100 Talking Point Detective
My point above was that the mis-labeling of people as "blame America firsters" was far more negatively impactful than a small number of idiots who reflexively think that America causes all negative geopolitical phenomena.
I couldn't agree more
| 140 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Tue, May 8, 2012 3:57:38pm |
re: #137 simoom
Heh, wasn't Rep. Peter King, just earlier today, calling for congressional investigations into the Obama admin for not releasing enough info on this operation to the public, saying it was undermining trust in the FBI / DHS or something? :p
The Obama Administration is politicizing the situation by releasing partial information, letting GOP politicians make comments, and then releasing more information in order to make the GOP look bad. Mitt told me so, so it must be true!
| 141 |
erik_t Tue, May 8, 2012 3:58:59pm |
re: #140 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste
'The Obama Administration is politicizing the situation by releasing partial information, letting GOP politicians make comments, and then releasing more information in order to make the GOP look bad. Mitt told me so, so it must be true!'
You think you're being funny, but I'd bet one shiny internet dollar that we'll actually hear this before long, if we haven't already. It will probably involve the word 'entrapment'.
| 142 |
Mich-again Tue, May 8, 2012 4:06:54pm |
Great interview Charles.. I've been around here since 2004 and I remember it all since then. I've followed pretty much the same route far away from the right.
I never voted for a Democrat until the 2010 midterms. Now I can't see voting for a Republican again. I want nothing to do with them anymore.
| 143 |
allegro Tue, May 8, 2012 4:12:00pm |
re: #136 gwangung
Waddya mean "was"? I think Republicans still think you can do that; they certainly don't seem to appreciate what human intelligence can do.
Conservatives don't do well with intelligence.
///
| 144 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Tue, May 8, 2012 4:13:48pm |
re: #142 Mich-again
Great interview Charles.. I've been around here since 2004 and I remember it all since then. I've followed pretty much the same route far away from the right.
I never voted for a Democrat until the 2010 midterms. Now I can't see voting for a Republican again. I want nothing to do with them anymore.
I recall you from my early days here when it was crazy right wingy, you were one of the sane ones.
| 145 |
Killgore Trout Tue, May 8, 2012 4:16:43pm |
re: #143 allegro
Conservatives don't do well with intelligence.
///
They don't. It hasn't always been like this but conservatives have cultivated a mistrust of intellectuals. They prefer simple folksy witticisms delivered with a rural accent.
| 146 |
Targetpractice Tue, May 8, 2012 4:18:07pm |
re: #145 Killgore Trout
They don't. It hasn't always been like this but conservatives have cultivated a mistrust of intellectuals. They prefer simple folksy witticisms delivered with a rural accent.
I can pull off the witticisms, but my accent still leaves a bit to be desired.
/
| 147 |
Killgore Trout Tue, May 8, 2012 4:21:40pm |
re: #146 Targetpractice
I can pull off the witticisms, but my accent still leaves a bit to be desired.
/
I was thinking about this strange desire we have that our absurdly wealthy politicians pretend that they can relate to the common man. It's pretty stupid if you think about. I'd much prefer a leader who can relate to philosophers, economists, military strategists and historians. I really don't give a shit if they pose in front of a BBQ in a tshirt.
| 149 |
ProGunLiberal Tue, May 8, 2012 4:26:43pm |
re: #148 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012
I saw that.
| 150 |
Targetpractice Tue, May 8, 2012 4:28:53pm |
re: #147 Killgore Trout
I was thinking about this strange desire we have that our absurdly wealthy wealthy pretend that they can relate to the common man. It's pretty stupi if you think about. I'd much prefer a leader who can relate to philosophers, economists, military strategists and historians. I really don't give a shit if they pose in front of a BBQ in a tshirt.
It's a desire to believe that the wealthy are not so disconnected from the common man that they can't enjoy the simple things that we take for granted. Thing is, we so often fool ourselves into believing that the guy pictured scarfing down the county fair hot dog isn't, as soon as he gets out of hearing range, spitting in disgust and asking for a bottle of Evian to wash the flavor of such "low-quality" fare out of his mouth.
| 151 |
Majacita Tue, May 8, 2012 4:30:20pm |
The reaction that Charles had to the bombings, the reaction against the extreme form of Islamic fundamentalism that helped cause the attack on 9/11 is the same as his reaction against the ideas of Geller and Spencer. In both cases they are full of hate and rage. It is normal to be repulsed by that and to try to fight against it. Charles started by fighting the hate and rage of the Islamists and now finds himself fighting the hate and rage of the Islamaphobes. Both sides see only enemies and both sides are wrong.
| 152 |
Kragar Tue, May 8, 2012 4:31:38pm |
re: #142 Mich-again
Great interview Charles.. I've been around here since 2004 and I remember it all since then. I've followed pretty much the same route far away from the right.
I never voted for a Democrat until the 2010 midterms. Now I can't see voting for a Republican again. I want nothing to do with them anymore.
Ditto
| 153 |
erik_t Tue, May 8, 2012 4:33:35pm |
So, gorillion-year-incumbent IN-SEN Dick Lugar lost his primary to the Teahadist flavor of the week.
Giggles.
| 154 |
Majacita Tue, May 8, 2012 4:34:15pm |
What's interesting and what I think is a change in the Republican Party is the complete insistence on Orthodoxy. You must believe every line they have or they don't want you. No more fiscally conservative with some liberal social views. If you waver on even one of the principles on their list then its over.
| 156 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Tue, May 8, 2012 4:38:58pm |
They’re called the alleged victims of Jerry Sandusky, but most of them feel like they’re the ones about to go on trial.
Enlarge SARA GANIM, The Patriot-News
Jerry Sandusky, along with his attorney Joe Amendola, enters the Centre County courthouse for a hearing on several issues, including two requests: one, from the prosecution, for an out-of-county jury; the other, from the defense, for loosened bail conditions for Sandusky. JOE HERMITT, The Patriot-News
Jerry Sandusky attends hearing in Centre County court in Bellefonte, Pa. gallery (28 photos)
As the former Penn State assistant football coach and charity founder prepares to defend himself in court on 52 allegations of child sex abuse, he’s seeking records of nearly every minute of the lives — traffic tickets, school detention, employment records — of the eight men who will take the stand and testify against him.
“It’s just a witch hunt,” said attorney Michael Boni, who represents alleged Victim One, the Clinton County boy whose allegations started the three-year investigation that led to charges against Sandusky.
“It’s creating a tremendous amount of stress and trepidation among these victims,” Boni said.
To make matters worse, the state attorney general’s office accidentally released the names of some of the alleged victims in a court filing this week. Tuesday morning, they asked the judge to seal the 29-page document, and by the afternoon, it was gone from the public county website.
[Link: www.pennlive.com...]
| 157 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Tue, May 8, 2012 4:39:51pm |
Sorry, iPad formatting sucks.
| 158 |
Shvaughn Tue, May 8, 2012 4:43:16pm |
re: #155 Shvaughn
Ron Paul's gotta catch 'em all!
[Embedded content]
Sung by the guy who did the original (well, original English version) Pokemon theme.
Ridiculous.
| 159 |
Lidane Tue, May 8, 2012 4:44:49pm |
Just got back from The Avengers. WOW. What a great film. Kudos to the cast and crew, they did a hell of a job. Also, this immediately came to mind with the Hulk v. Loki:
Heh.
| 160 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Tue, May 8, 2012 4:45:49pm |
@RafalcaRomney
Can you think of a good caption for this photo of Mitt Romney on the campaign trail? #p2 #ctl pic.twitter.com/GzlYxnx6
| 161 |
Lidane Tue, May 8, 2012 4:47:16pm |
re: #153 erik_t
So, gorillion-year-incumbent IN-SEN Dick Lugar lost his primary to the Teahadist flavor of the week.
Giggles.
Oh, that should be fun. I eagerly await the teabagger candidate for the Senate running birther ads in Indiana in October. Haha.
| 162 |
Talking Point Detective Tue, May 8, 2012 4:50:28pm |
re: #138 researchok
Blaming ourselves, as in Bush plotted to blow up the WTC or we deserved 9/11 because of our foreign policy.
Ok - I think we're in agreement. But to reiterate, "We deserved 9/11" is different than "Our previous foreign policy contributed to us being a target of terrorists."
The cynical conflation of those two arguments has been to our detriment.
I think that the # of people who said that "We deserved 9/11" is small indeed. And with religious fundies on the scene such as Pat Robertson, I'm not sure that kind of logic is significantly more prevalent on the left.
| 163 |
Charles Johnson Tue, May 8, 2012 4:52:23pm |
| 164 |
Targetpractice Tue, May 8, 2012 4:55:04pm |
Think I might have a problem here with Chrome. I try updinging a comment and get sent to the front page instead.
| 165 |
Shvaughn Tue, May 8, 2012 4:55:44pm |
So this Scott S. Boston fellow -- who got caught using eliminationist rhetoric against Claire McCaskill -- also thinks Facebook is censoring Breitbart's sites.
This message now blocks all #Breitbart links on #Facebook ow.ly/i/C6rX @dloesh #GGISTL #DLRS #War— Scott S. Boston (@scottsboston) May 8, 2012
Sadly he got Dana Loesch's twitter name wrong!
| 166 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Tue, May 8, 2012 4:55:56pm |
re: #163 Charles Johnson
Should be fixed now.
Thanks Charles. I tend to blame my ineptness on the machine at hand.
| 167 |
Shvaughn Tue, May 8, 2012 4:57:08pm |
Also it seems the latest Breitbart news is that the nutjobs can't find the eyewitness to Breitbart's death, so it's probably some conspiracy!!1! (warning: Alex Jones link)
| 168 |
Targetpractice Tue, May 8, 2012 4:57:57pm |
re: #164 Targetpractice
Think I might have a problem here with Chrome. I try updinging a comment and get sent to the front page instead.
Cool, it's working again.
| 169 |
EdDantes Tue, May 8, 2012 5:00:41pm |
I just saw this: Andre 3000 will play Jimi Hendrix in a movie.
[Link: www.cbc.ca...]
| 170 |
EdDantes Tue, May 8, 2012 5:10:04pm |
re: #169 EdDantes
Lord, let it be a good movie. Jimi deserves it.
| 171 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Tue, May 8, 2012 5:11:11pm |
Saw this today & thought beyond the horror, wtf? The bad man who killed the mother and daughter in MS and is currently on the run with the (hoped alive) 2 other daughters uses an alias of Paco Rodrigass.
[Link: abcnews.go.com...]
| 172 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Tue, May 8, 2012 5:16:12pm |
re: #170 EdDantes
Lord, let it be a good movie. Jimi deserves it.
Can't believe this is the first movie. Hell they are remaking The Doors already.
It should be good.
| 173 |
Amory Blaine Tue, May 8, 2012 5:23:37pm |
I'd love to listen to this at work tonight. Is there a link to an mp3 of the interview available?
| 174 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Tue, May 8, 2012 5:27:36pm |
re: #153 erik_t
So, gorillion-year-incumbent IN-SEN Dick Lugar lost his primary to the Teahadist flavor of the week.
Giggles.
I look forward to the national GOP rallying behind Lugar running as an independent instead of the extremist much like the national Democratic party rallied behind Liebermann in Connecticut.
//
| 175 |
HappyWarrior Tue, May 8, 2012 5:30:31pm |
re: #174 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste
I look forward to the national GOP rallying behind Lugar running as an independent instead of the extremist much like the national Democratic party rallied behind Liebermann in Connecticut.
//
Is Lugar seriously considering an Independent run? Sucks to see him lose. I liked Lugar since he seemed to be a reasonable guy and not a foaming at the mouth kind of guy.
| 176 |
Lidane Tue, May 8, 2012 5:32:47pm |
Paul Ryan Defends Cutting Food Stamps For The Poor: ‘You Have To Get Savings In Some Of These Areas’
Hey, Ryan -- here's a thought: STOP GIVING THE DOD MORE MONEY THAN THEY ASK FOR. You assholes are giving them $29 billion that they don't even want.
Maybe if you imbeciles stopped whoring yourselves out to every defense contractor with a checkbook and you started cutting out all the old, outdated, bloated, and useless contracts that aren't doing anything at all but wasting money, you would have more money for other things.
| 177 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Tue, May 8, 2012 5:34:39pm |
re: #174 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste
I look forward to the national GOP rallying behind Lugar running as an independent instead of the extremist much like the national Democratic party rallied behind Liebermann in Connecticut.
//
Well Lisa Murkowski got in as an indie against bagger Joe Miller. Prob is Lugar is too old.
| 178 |
Decatur Deb Tue, May 8, 2012 5:34:56pm |
re: #175 HappyWarrior
Is Lugar seriously considering an Independent run? Sucks to see him lose. I liked Lugar since he seemed to be a reasonable guy and not a foaming at the mouth kind of guy.
That's why he lost.
| 179 |
HappyWarrior Tue, May 8, 2012 5:35:19pm |
re: #176 Lidane
Paul Ryan Defends Cutting Food Stamps For The Poor: ‘You Have To Get Savings In Some Of These Areas’
Hey, Ryan -- here's a thought: STOP GIVING THE DOD MORE MONEY THAN THEY ASK FOR. You assholes are giving them $29 billion that they don't even want.
Maybe if you imbeciles stopped whoring yourselves out to every defense contractor with a checkbook and you started cutting out all the old, outdated, bloated, and useless contracts that aren't doing anything at all but wasting money, you would have more money for other things.
Asshole.
| 180 |
EdDantes Tue, May 8, 2012 5:35:38pm |
re: #172 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012
Damn. I hope so. The doors was just OK. But Andre 3000 does not have Hendrix's nice baritone.
| 181 |
HappyWarrior Tue, May 8, 2012 5:35:41pm |
| 182 |
darthstar Tue, May 8, 2012 5:37:14pm |
North Carolina looks like it's making bigotry constitutional.
| 183 |
ProGunLiberal Tue, May 8, 2012 5:38:22pm |
re: #180 EdDantes
I have song on my MP3 that is collaboration between him and John Legend.
I like it.
| 184 |
Lidane Tue, May 8, 2012 5:38:56pm |
The Etch has not been Sketched yet:
RNC: Romney Is ‘Still Deciding What His Position On Immigration Is’
Shouldn't he already know this? WTF.
| 185 |
HappyWarrior Tue, May 8, 2012 5:39:24pm |
Is anyone really shocked that NC is passing a gay marriage ban? I know I'm not.
| 186 |
Lidane Tue, May 8, 2012 5:40:28pm |
re: #182 darthstar
North Carolina looks like it's making bigotry constitutional.
Dear North Carolina,
Civil Rights are not up for a popular vote. Deal with it.
No love,
Sane America
| 188 |
HappyWarrior Tue, May 8, 2012 5:41:04pm |
re: #184 Lidane
The Etch has not been Sketched yet:
RNC: Romney Is ‘Still Deciding What His Position On Immigration Is’
Shouldn't he already know this? WTF.
If he thinks voters are going to ignore his association with Kobach, "self deportation", and the fact I believe Pearce said their policies were identical than Mitt's even more craven than I thought.
| 189 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Tue, May 8, 2012 5:41:28pm |
re: #182 darthstar
North Carolina looks like it's making bigotry constitutional.
Welcome to the club.
| 190 |
Targetpractice Tue, May 8, 2012 5:41:48pm |
re: #176 Lidane
Paul Ryan Defends Cutting Food Stamps For The Poor: ‘You Have To Get Savings In Some Of These Areas’
Hey, Ryan -- here's a thought: STOP GIVING THE DOD MORE MONEY THAN THEY ASK FOR. You assholes are giving them $29 billion that they don't even want.
Maybe if you imbeciles stopped whoring yourselves out to every defense contractor with a checkbook and you started cutting out all the old, outdated, bloated, and useless contracts that aren't doing anything at all but wasting money, you would have more money for other things.
Remember that this is the same dipshit who told us that generals who are agreeing with the administration's proposed cuts are actually lying to Congress.
| 191 |
HappyWarrior Tue, May 8, 2012 5:42:02pm |
| 192 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Tue, May 8, 2012 5:42:12pm |
| 194 |
HappyWarrior Tue, May 8, 2012 5:43:02pm |
re: #190 Targetpractice
Remember that this is the same dipshit who told us that generals who are agreeing with the administration's proposed cuts are actually lying to Congress.
Ryan said that? Nice budget chairman you got there, house GOP.
| 195 |
compound_Idaho Tue, May 8, 2012 5:43:56pm |
re: #188 HappyWarrior
If he thinks voters are going to ignore his association with Kobach, "self deportation", and the fact I believe Pearce said their policies were identical than Mitt's even more craven than I thought.
Maybe his position is evolving.
| 196 |
SpaceJesus Tue, May 8, 2012 5:45:31pm |
Great interview. I wonder what needs to be in place for people to wake up and stop being wingers. It's probably a case by case thing.
| 197 |
Gus Tue, May 8, 2012 5:45:42pm |
re: #23 Killgore Trout
I went through Joshua Holland's blog. He seems to be a supporter of the radical and violent OWS protests and even shilled for Occupy Oakland later on in the same broadcast (although I couldn't stomach listening to the whole thing). He's a supporter of the cyber terrorists from Anon and supportive of hateful bigot MJ Rosenberg too. I don't expect purity and nobody's perfect but I find him a bit extreme as well. Not somebody I would want to associate with if I were avoiding extremists.
You never did tell us what kind of kitchen counter tops he has.
| 198 |
freetoken Tue, May 8, 2012 5:45:47pm |
re: #153 erik_t
So, gorillion-year-incumbent IN-SEN Dick Lugar lost his primary to the Teahadist flavor of the week.
.
Wrote a comment last night about Mourdock and his back door support for creationism via ID:
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
| 199 |
Lidane Tue, May 8, 2012 5:46:59pm |
re: #197 Gus
You never did tell us what kind of kitchen counter tops he has.
Or what his bathroom tile looks like. Or whether or not he has azaleas in his back yard.
| 200 |
Targetpractice Tue, May 8, 2012 5:47:58pm |
re: #194 HappyWarrior
Ryan said that? Nice budget chairman you got there, house GOP.
Yep, he first called them liars, then walked it back after the general responsible for testifying about the new budget to Congress chewed him out.
| 201 |
Gus Tue, May 8, 2012 5:49:13pm |
re: #199 Lidane
Or what his bathroom tile looks like. Or whether or not he has azaleas in his back yard.
Or book membership clubs.
| 202 |
Charles Johnson Tue, May 8, 2012 5:49:14pm |
re: #197 Gus
I'm actually reading Joshua's blog right now, and one of the first posts calls out Naomi Wolf for her overheated "Occupy crackdown" conspiracy theory. It's a pretty good, factual refutation of her claims. I'm not seeing the support for radicalism and violence yet.
| 203 |
HappyWarrior Tue, May 8, 2012 5:49:31pm |
re: #200 Targetpractice
Yep, he first called them liars, then walked it back after the general responsible for testifying about the new budget to Congress chewed him out.
"Misspoke" aka got called on his bs.
| 204 |
God of Binders with Women Tue, May 8, 2012 5:49:33pm |
re: #184 Lidane
The Etch has not been Sketched yet:
RNC: Romney Is ‘Still Deciding What His Position On Immigration Is’
Shouldn't he already know this? WTF.
He's taking a nap after saving the auto industry. Give him a break.
/
| 205 |
Interesting Times Tue, May 8, 2012 5:49:56pm |
Don't think of it as firing Dick Lugar Think of it as a warning shot to Mitt Romney that he better watch his ass and stay out of the middle.— TBogg (@tbogg) May 9, 2012
| 206 |
SpaceJesus Tue, May 8, 2012 5:50:11pm |
Maybe we can get a grant to start the Charles Johnson School for Wingnut Recovery and Derp Prevention. Somebody get Soros.
| 207 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Tue, May 8, 2012 5:52:16pm |
re: #197 Gus
You never did tell us what kind of kitchen counter tops he has.
Ya know, thanks for revisiting this post. What got me was
hateful bigot MJ Rosenberg
For calling radical RW Americans Israel Firsters? Pearls oh the pearls. And now he's slandered without a breath.
| 208 |
ProGunLiberal Tue, May 8, 2012 5:52:22pm |
re: #205 Interesting Times
This is why the middle ground fallacy is bullcrap, and the makers of South Park are talking out of their ass.
| 209 |
Gus Tue, May 8, 2012 5:54:44pm |
re: #207 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012
Ya know, thanks for revisiting this post. What got me was
For calling radical RW Americans Israel Firsters? Pearls oh the pearls. And now he's slandered without a breath.
Kangaroo investigation had a lot of kangaroo.
| 210 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Tue, May 8, 2012 5:55:01pm |
| 211 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Tue, May 8, 2012 5:55:59pm |
re: #204 Everything in Its Right Place
He's taking a nap after saving the auto industry. Give him a break.
/
Lol
| 212 |
freetoken Tue, May 8, 2012 5:56:02pm |
Ben Stein is not finding reality to conform to conspiracies:
Ben Stein's Global Warming Lawsuit Gets Cold Shoulder From Judge
| 213 |
Gus Tue, May 8, 2012 5:57:13pm |
re: #207 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012
Ya know, thanks for revisiting this post. What got me was
For calling radical RW Americans Israel Firsters? Pearls oh the pearls. And now he's slandered without a breath.
You want me to sum it up into one word?
Rude.
| 214 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Tue, May 8, 2012 5:57:46pm |
Hateful bigot. Just toss that around.
| 215 |
HappyWarrior Tue, May 8, 2012 5:58:07pm |
re: #212 freetoken
Ben Stein is not finding reality to conform to conspiracies:
Ben Stein's Global Warming Lawsuit Gets Cold Shoulder From Judge
Doesn't he have a hyperbole to catch? I remember his moronic film equating Darwin's theories to Nazism.
| 216 |
Randall Gross Tue, May 8, 2012 5:58:34pm |
Meanwhile Wingnuts try to insert "Forward" is socialist page and Wikipedia kills it:
[Link: mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com...]
| 217 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Tue, May 8, 2012 6:01:26pm |
re: #216 Randall Gross
Meanwhile Wingnuts try to insert "Forward" is socialist page and Wikipedia kills it:
[Link: mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com...]
Oh my! We are in wonderland I fear.
| 218 |
HappyWarrior Tue, May 8, 2012 6:01:38pm |
re: #216 Randall Gross
Meanwhile Wingnuts try to insert "Forward" is socialist page and Wikipedia kills it:
[Link: mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com...]
Liberal bias!!!!
| 219 |
erik_t Tue, May 8, 2012 6:02:20pm |
re: #216 Randall Gross
Meanwhile Wingnuts try to insert "Forward" is socialist page and Wikipedia kills it:
[Link: mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com...]
Should have tried Conservapedia, guys.
| 220 |
freetoken Tue, May 8, 2012 6:04:47pm |
One bit of archeological news from the last day also has stirred a bit of excitement in the fundamentalists:
Archaeological find stirs debate on David's kingdom
It doesn't mean what the literalists want it to mean, but that doesn't bother them.
| 221 |
Gus Tue, May 8, 2012 6:05:31pm |
re: #219 erik_t
Should have tried Conservapedia, guys.
I think this should be in the Encyclopedia Dramatica.
| 222 |
Amory Blaine Tue, May 8, 2012 6:08:59pm |
| 224 |
Eventual Carrion Tue, May 8, 2012 6:15:48pm |
re: #220 freetoken
One bit of archeological news from the last day also has stirred a bit of excitement in the fundamentalists:
Archaeological find stirs debate on David's kingdom
It doesn't mean what the literalists want it to mean, but that doesn't bother them.
I couldn't read past this point "According to Garfinkel, Khirbet Qeiyafa is the first proof of the existence of a regional government during the time of David." without giggling to myself a couple times thinking "Solomon & Garfinkel".
| 225 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, May 8, 2012 6:32:56pm |
re: #81 Killgore Trout
Something about terrorism doesn't compute well with many lefties. They are often prone to conspiracy theories in an attempt to understand it. Under the Bush years it was pretty bad but the problem still lingers. It's one of the reasons why they're susceptible to the Paulians and 9-11 truth movement. It got so bad that Kos had to bad 9-11 truth stuff on his site. Although I'm not much of a Kos fan I think it was the right thing for him to do. It's a problem and he made his attempt to deal with it.
My experience has been that while conspiracy theories are sometimes hot, I find the average left-leaning lunatic prefers to simply justify terrorism before adding in conspiracy theories.
| 226 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, May 8, 2012 6:33:28pm |
re: #83 Decatur Deb
The comments of some of the liberal readers there are a bit spooky--their theme is that you are still a wingnut, and that your support for the President exposes how conservative he is.
Firebaggers gonna firebag.
| 227 |
BongCrodny Tue, May 8, 2012 6:38:31pm |
Really interesting apology in our local Daily Rag today:
CORRECTION: The print version of this story in the Kennebec Journal contained unintended spelling errors caused in the production process.
Here's the story and typo in question. There may have been more than one typo, but I suspect this was the one that prompted the correction:
Supporters of presidential candidate Rot Paul seized control of the two-day convention, electing the chairman and 20 national convention delegates who are loyal to their candidate.
I think the initial misprint is more accurate, but that's just me.
| 228 |
prairiefire Tue, May 8, 2012 7:09:29pm |
re: #204 Everything in Its Right Place
He's taking a nap after saving the auto industry. Give him a break.
/
Hello! Who painted your avatar?
| 229 |
Tigger2005 Tue, May 8, 2012 8:37:41pm |
I always felt the dialogue on this blog was a cut above or I would not have been a part of it. I never felt it was a "hotbed of xenophobia and wingnuttery." There were those types here, but by and large the dialogue in this blog was rational and fact-based.
Let's face it, some of the Left went pretty crazy back then. I was absolutely sickened and disgusted by people who openly cheered 9/11 as America getting its just comeuppance. And then there were the idiot 9/11 conspiracy theorists, most of them from the Left. I think it was right to highlight the Palestinians who danced in the streets and passed out candy after the attacks, as well as the hateful anti-Semitic, anti-Israel propaganda emanating from the Palestinian leadership and from Iran. LGF never did wrong in supporting Israel and her right to defend herself from the constant suicide bombings and rocket attacks. It was also right to call Dan Rather to task for not properly vetting those fake National Guard documents and rushing them onto the air in a transparent attempt to influence an election.
There is crazy everywhere, all across the political spectrum, and it should ALL be called out. Yet this is not a shout-out to the Magical Balance Fairy. It's clear that in the last few years the Right has patented a special kind of widespread madness and extremism that has no present equivalent on the Left. It's become utterly unconnected to reality. Had Charles continued to be a part of it, I would have left the LGF long ago.
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