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Obama Expected to Make Statement on Gay Marriage - Update: Now Supports Same Sex Marriage

A day after North Carolina banned it
Politics • • Views: 29,337

The buzz today is that President Obama is expected to make a statement about gay marriage, in an interview with ABC News (that has apparently already been concluded).

We’re keeping an eye on ABCNews.com for any word; they’re reportedly going to release some video clips within an hour.

UPDATE at 5/9/12 11:59:20 am

Obama Declares Support for Gay Marriage.

President Obama today announced that he now supports same-sex marriage, reversing his longstanding opposition amid growing pressure from the Democratic base and even his own vice president.

In an interview with ABC News’ Robin Roberts, the president described his thought process as an “evolution” that led him to this place, based on conversations with his own staff members, openly gay and lesbian service members, and conversations with his wife and own daughters.

“I have to tell you that over the course of several years as I have talked to friends and family and neighbors when I think about members of my own staff who are in incredibly committed monogamous relationships, same-sex relationships, who are raising kids together, when I think about those soldiers or airmen or marines or sailors who are out there fighting on my behalf and yet feel constrained, even now that Don’t Ask Don’t Tell is gone, because they are not able to commit themselves in a marriage, at a certain point I’ve just concluded that for me personally it is important for me to go ahead and affirm that I think same sex couples should be able to get married,” Obama told Roberts, in an interview to appear on ABC’s “Good Morning America” Thursday. Excerpts of the interview will air tonight on ABC’s “World News with Diane Sawyer.”

UPDATE at 5/9/12 12:03:44 pm

A video clip:

Video
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1 Bubblehead II  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:28:46am

Stand by for exploding wing nut heads if he comes out in support of it.

2 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:28:53am

Is he going to announce that Michelle is actually a man and his daughters are adopted?

3 Decatur Deb  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:29:56am

re: #1 Bubblehead II

Stand by for exploding wing nut heads if he comes out in support of it.

If he does, he can kiss off the Freeper vote.

4 HappyWarrior  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:30:09am

Hope he does the right thing.

5 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:30:14am

Uh oh. If he comes out in favor, will he lose crucial states?

6 jamesfirecat  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:30:35am

The downside of this is that it's just going to give the republicans more ammunition with the so cons and may alienate some people who might have voted for Obama when he still had the fig leaf of civil union support instead.

On the other hand, its morally lacking to suggest or follow up on a plan designed to hide ones true thoughts/feelings for the sake of winning an election.

7 jamesfirecat  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:30:50am

re: #2 Expand Your Ground

Is he going to announce that Michelle is actually a man and his daughters are adopted?

////Would explain the arms.

8 Targetpractice  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:31:16am

He'll either support it and watch as the Right whinges itself inside-out in frothing rage or he'll back down from supporting it and get the Right going "See liberals, he's not the 'messiah' you thought he'd be!!!"

9 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:31:57am

re: #6 jamesfirecat

The downside of this is that it's just going to give the republicans more ammunition with the so cons and may alienate some people who might have voted for Obama when he still had the fig leaf of civil union support instead.

On the other hand, its morally lacking to suggest or follow up on a plan designed to hide ones true thoughts/feelings for the sake of winning an election.

If he comes out now, negative stuff may dissipate somewhat before the elections. People will get back to economy.

10 jamesfirecat  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:32:36am

re: #8 Targetpractice

He'll either support it and watch as the Right whinges itself inside-out in frothing rage or he'll back down from supporting it and get the Right going "See liberals, he's not the 'messiah' you thought he'd be!!!"

re: #8 Targetpractice

He'll either support it and watch as the Right whinges itself inside-out in frothing rage or he'll back down from supporting it and get the Right going "See liberals, he's not the 'messiah' you thought he'd be!!!"

Honestly it has to be the first. I mean who holds a press conference just to say "You know I haven't brought this up in a while, but yeah, I still support civil unions rather than gay marriage, any questions?"

11 Targetpractice  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:33:36am

re: #10 jamesfirecat

re: #8 Targetpractice

Honestly it has to be the first. I mean who holds a press conference just to say "You know I haven't brought this up in a while, but yeah, I still support civil unions rather than gay marriage, any questions?"

It's possible he's going to go "This is a subject where Vice President Biden and I disagree..." or something to that effect.

12 darthstar  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:34:11am

Hopefully, he'll come out in favor, everyone will breathe a collective sigh of "Okay." and we can get on with the election and this will be a non-issue, except to make the GOP look even more bigoted and hateful than they already make themselves.

I sincerely hope that the law of diminishing returns on negative ads ends up hurting the GOP deep in red states.

13 HappyWarrior  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:35:11am

Gotta think he's coming out in favor here.

14 Kragar  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:35:20am

I predict obfuscation.

15 darthstar  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:35:24am

re: #9 May Day! May Day!

If he comes out now, negative stuff may dissipate somewhat before the elections. People will get back to economy.

ONOZ! MOOSLIM HIPPIE COMMIE KENYAN HOMO ALERT!!! Wait...we're not all in the sixth grade? Okie dokie then. Good on ya, Mr. President.

16 HappyWarrior  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:36:17am

Either way, the wingnuts are going to flip out over this.

17 Lidane  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:36:17am

re: #13 HappyWarrior

Gotta think he's coming out in favor here.

Same here. I doubt he'd be making a statement now just to re-state what he said before, especially after North Carolina banned gay marriage.

18 Decatur Deb  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:36:25am

His people have done the math. If he supports it, he shores up his base a bit, while risking people who aren't going to vote for him anyway. The quality of his rhetoric is the determinant.

19 darthstar  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:36:40am

re: #13 HappyWarrior

Gotta think he's coming out in favor here.

Worst thing that happens is America recoils in horror, Mitt Romney wins by a landslide and the tea party gets veto proof majorities in both houses...what could possibly go wrong if that all came to pass?

20 Lidane  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:36:52am

re: #16 HappyWarrior

Either way, the wingnuts are going to flip out over this.

They flip out when Barack Obama wakes up in the morning. At this point, their constant outrage is boring, not controversial.

21 Simply Sarah  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:37:43am

re: #14 Kragar

I predict obfuscation.

That's what I put my money on, as well. I mean, maybe he'll surprise me, but considering he not long ago put off signing an LGBT employment protection executive order applying to federal contractors so that it could "Be studied" and how furiously they seemed to backpedal over Biden's comments, I'm not getting my hopes up.

22 Targetpractice  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:37:43am

re: #18 Decatur Deb

His people have done the math. If he supports it, he shores up his base a bit, while risking people who aren't going to vote for him anyway. The quality of his rhetoric is the determinant.

Agreed, if he's going to come out in favor, he has to come out strong. If he sounds wishy-washy or unsure, it will leave supporters doubting his commitment while still pissing off the more rabid of the socons.

23 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:38:42am

re: #21 Simply Sarah

Maybe he was "Fuck this, let's do it".

24 Decatur Deb  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:39:48am

re: #23 May Day! May Day!

Maybe he was "Fuck this, let's do it".

Going to announce a successful drone strike on Marcus Bachmann's clinic.

25 HappyWarrior  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:39:55am

re: #23 May Day! May Day!

Maybe he was "Fuck this, let's do it".

I hope so. There needs to be a time like that on this issue and the time is now.

26 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:40:15am

re: #24 Decatur Deb

Going to announce a successful drone strike on Marcus Bachmann's clinic.

RL LOL.

27 Simply Sarah  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:40:27am

re: #23 May Day! May Day!

Maybe he was "Fuck this, let's do it".

Heh, perhaps. I suppose I'm just fairly cynical at this point and find it more likely that he's just trying to keep the Biden thing from blowing up on him anymore.

28 Lidane  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:41:27am

As long as we're talking about idiot wingnuts, here is the GOP's candidate for the Senate from Indiana:

Richard Mourdock Compares Tax Debates To Abraham Lincoln's Fears About Slavery

The newly minted Republican Senate nominee in Indiana, state Treasurer Richard Mourdock, recently compared the divide over tax policy to the climate before the Civil War -- and cast poorer Americans in the role of those who oppose freedom.

Good job, teabaggers. You ousted a mostly level-headed Senator for this raving lunatic.

30 Targetpractice  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:43:42am

re: #28 Lidane

As long as we're talking about idiot wingnuts, here is the GOP's candidate for the Senate from Indiana:

Richard Mourdock Compares Tax Debates To Abraham Lincoln's Fears About Slavery

Good job, teabaggers. You ousted a mostly level-headed Senator for this raving lunatic.

Nah, he did one better this morning:

Richard Mourdock: ‘Bipartisanship Ought To Consist Of Democrats Coming To The Republican Point Of View’

MOURDOCK: I certainly think bipartisanship ought to consist of Democrats coming to the Republican point of view. … If we [win the House, Senate, and White House], bipartisanship means they have to come our way, and if we’re successful in getting the numbers, we’ll work towards that.

31 HappyWarrior  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:43:45am

re: #28 Lidane

As long as we're talking about idiot wingnuts, here is the GOP's candidate for the Senate from Indiana:

Richard Mourdock Compares Tax Debates To Abraham Lincoln's Fears About Slavery

Good job, teabaggers. You ousted a mostly level-headed Senator for this raving lunatic.

Tax cuts uber alles. And before I am accused of violating Godwin, the phrase is above all in English and I believe part of Germany's anthem today.

32 Simply Sarah  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:44:15am

re: #29 Learned Mother of Zion

Obama's stance on same-sex marriage is "evolving"

Actually, that's a good point. The religious right doesn't believe in evolution anyway, so there's nothing for them to fear about Obama changing his position.

33 simoom  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:44:22am

I'm really torn on this. Biden's distraction probably necessitated a public statement, but it may be bad news no matter what the President does in the interview.

If he reiterates his previous statements, which have basically been what his personal religious beliefs are on marriage and that he doesn't support discriminatory laws and constitutional amendments, that he was publicly opposed to NC's amendment 1 (he came out against it in March), that he's worked to roll back discriminatory laws federally like DADT and DOMA, etc the left will have one of it's typical, apocalyptic meltdowns at his "betrayal".

If he comes out publicly in favor of full marriage equality, something his admin has hinted to the left he'd likely do after the election, he'll likely encourage, combined with what happened in NC with Amendment 1, GOP controlled legislatures across the country to again make Gay Marriage an election year ballot issue wedge. I'm unsure how that would turn out but I lean toward it being most likely a setback for LGBT rights with more constitutional amendments passing and increased GOP enthusiasm / turnout.

34 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:44:43am

re: #27 Simply Sarah

Well, on the other hand what can he announce? With DADT changing policy was within his power, not so with SSM, except for not enforcing DOMA, which he doesn't. So he can't announce "we'll be creating an exploratory committee to study the possible repercussions".

It's gotta be something new and the only thing I can think of is endorsement of SSM.

35 jamesfirecat  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:44:44am

re: #30 Targetpractice

Nah, he did one better this morning:

Richard Mourdock: ‘Bipartisanship Ought To Consist Of Democrats Coming To The Republican Point Of View’

Didn't Rush already say that a few years back?

36 funky chicken  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:44:48am

re: #10 jamesfirecat

re: #8 Targetpractice

Honestly it has to be the first. I mean who holds a press conference just to say "You know I haven't brought this up in a while, but yeah, I still support civil unions rather than gay marriage, any questions?"

That's the way I'd go, but I'm never going to run for president. Anyway, everybody should read the story about the flesh-eating bacteria. If they had given her antibiotics when she went back complaining of pain in the wound she would not have lost her leg. Don't let ER docs pat you on the head and assume you're just there looking for pain meds after an injury.

37 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:46:37am

re: #10 jamesfirecat

re: #8 Targetpractice


Honestly it has to be the first. I mean who holds a press conference just to say "You know I haven't brought this up in a while, but yeah, I still support civil unions rather than gay marriage, any questions?"

Mitt Romney?

38 lawhawk  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:47:22am

I think he's seen the reaction garnered from what VP Biden and Sec. Duncan said in support of gay marriage.

If he comes out in support, it would be the right thing to do because it goes towards equal rights and equal protections under the law.

But the politics will make that a more difficult proposition in a potentially close election in November. It would reinforce his support, but could help the GOP in rallying the so-cons against him in battleground states.

39 Simply Sarah  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:47:46am

re: #34 May Day! May Day!

Well, on the other hand what can he announce? With DADT changing policy was within his power, not so with SSM, except for not enforcing DOMA, which he doesn't. So he can't announce "we'll be creating an exploratory committee to study the possible repercussions".

It's gotta be something new and the only thing I can think of is endorsement of SSM.

Like I said, it may simply be an attempt to placate the SSM uber alles crowd to calm down. I have to admit that despite (Or maybe because of) being a lesbian-leaning pansexual myself, I really think marriage is getting a bit too much focus. It's great for the middle class white couples, but doesn't really address some of the more immediate needs of other LGBT people.

40 HappyWarrior  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:47:55am

re: #33 simoom

I'm really torn on this. Biden's distraction probably necessitated a public statement, but it may be bad news no matter what the President does in the interview.

If he reiterates his previous statements, which have basically been what his personal religious beliefs are on marriage and that he doesn't support discriminatory laws and constitutional amendments, that he was publicly opposed to NC's amendment 1 (he came out against it in March), that he's worked to roll back discriminatory laws federally like DADT and DOMA, etc the left will have one of it's typical, apocalyptic meltdowns at his "betrayal".

If he comes out publicly in favor of full marriage equality, something his admin has hinted to the left he'd likely do after the election, he'll likely encourage, combined with what happened in NC with Amendment 1, GOP controlled legislatures across the country to again make Gay Marriage an election year ballot issue wedge. I'm unsure how that would turn out but I lean toward it being most likely a setback for LGBT rights with more constitutional amendments passing and increased GOP enthusiasm / turnout.

Well, there's a flipside. It could increase turnout for him too. It is risky, yes though.

41 Gus  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:48:41am

Please stand by.

42 Gus  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:49:14am
43 PhillyPretzel  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:49:33am

re: #41 Gus

Instead of standing I will be sitting. My feet are killing me. /

44 Vicious Babushka  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:51:31am

re: #34 May Day! May Day!

Well, on the other hand what can he announce? With DADT changing policy was within his power, not so with SSM, except for not enforcing DOMA, which he doesn't. So he can't announce "we'll be creating an exploratory committee to study the possible repercussions".

It's gotta be something new and the only thing I can think of is endorsement of SSM.

If you read the "evolving timeline" Obama has been pretty consistent in his opposition to Gay marriage, except for a questionnaire from 1996 which his communications director claims was not Obama's true opinion.

He admits to "struggling" with this issue. I would be surprised if he totally repudiates the views he has held for so many years.

45 HappyWarrior  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:51:31am

re: #42 Gus

[Embedded content]

Romney's views have a way of devolving.

46 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:51:44am

re: #40 HappyWarrior

Well, there's a flipside. It could increase turnout for him too. It is risky, yes though.

Could be a strategy to make the election revolve around the issue of civil rights and the pursuit of success, health (and happiness) by citizens in the United States. That moves things towards a specific area where I think Romney and the GOP cannot and will not hold a reasoned discussion.

And, if anything, it's also Obama going on the offensive and making the GOP react.

47 Gus  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:52:25am
48 Gus  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:53:00am

Must be a vestige of our agricultural roots.

//

49 Targetpractice  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:53:03am

re: #38 lawhawk

I think he's seen the reaction garnered from what VP Biden and Sec. Duncan said in support of gay marriage.

If he comes out in support, it would be the right thing to do because it goes towards equal rights and equal protections under the law.

But the politics will make that a more difficult proposition in a potentially close election in November. It would reinforce his support, but could help the GOP in rallying the so-cons against him in battleground states.

It's a gamble either way.

50 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:54:01am

re: #44 Learned Mother of Zion

If you read the "evolving timeline" Obama has been pretty consistent in his opposition to Gay marriage, except for a questionnaire from 1996 which his communications director claims was not Obama's true opinion.

He admits to "struggling" with this issue. I would be surprised if he totally repudiates the views he has held for so many years.

I don't think it's much of a personal issue for him. Moreover, while personally he may not like SSM marriages, he can still support their legalization. Separation of state & religion and all that.

51 darthstar  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:54:04am

re: #42 Gus

52 dragonath  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:54:06am

re: #30 Targetpractice

Seriously, where do they find people like this. I'm just so sick and tired of this. Here's another quote:

“Clearly, Lugar is out of touch with Hoosier conservatives if he thinks that serving on the board of groups that advocate ‘cap and trade’ carbon tax schemes and the junk science associated with global climate change alarmism is prudent when he represents a state that meets the majority of its electrical needs with coal-fired generators,” Mourdock said in a statement Thursday.

Well, fuck.

I don't want to rag on Dark_Falcon, but I'd really like to ask him whether or not he would vote for someone like this.

53 Lidane  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:54:21am

re: #49 Targetpractice

It's a gamble either way.

It's a gamble, sure. But after repealing DADT and refusing to defend DOMA, he might as well go all-in, you know?

54 EastSider  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:54:59am

I think he comes out strongly in favor of it. Whether that translates to policy is another question (he may punt to the states).

I am not sure that the two candid moments from his staff were accident. I can buy Biden going off-piste and saying his own thoughts (He is Biden), however two times means its a pattern. Between that and the vote NC this feels pre-planned.

55 Targetpractice  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:55:00am

re: #53 Lidane

It's a gamble, sure. But after repealing DADT and refusing to defend DOMA, he might as well go all-in, you know?

Indeed, either go big or go home.

56 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:56:30am

I do think it is time for Obama to come out swinging, so to speak, and to let people know that voting GOP is going to send America back at least a half a decade on social and reproductive rights issues.

57 Gus  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:56:46am

He did it.

58 EastSider  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:57:11am

My prediction:

Obama comes out as a homosexual.

/

59 HappyWarrior  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:57:32am

re: #57 Gus

He did it.

? for real?

60 Gus  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:57:34am
61 Decatur Deb  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:57:43am

re: #54 EastSider

I think he comes out strongly in favor of it. Whether that translates to policy is another question (he may punt to the states).

I am not sure that the two candid moments from his staff were accident. I can buy Biden going off-piste and saying his own thoughts (He is Biden), however two times means its a pattern. Between that and the vote NC this feels pre-planned.

Biden is a wonderful test-bed. If a statement flies, he's a harbinger of administration policy. If it bombs, he's "just ol' Joe".

62 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:57:57am

He may say tho that he supports SSM now but it's the people who should decide...

63 Lidane  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:57:58am

That sound you hear is a million wingnut 'splodey heads:

Obama declares support for gay marriage

64 EdDantes  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:58:23am

I hope President Obama comes out in favor of what he believes. It would be wrong to pander to any group on this matter. Although the lgbt group is not large enough to swing an election, stating your beliefs does get you a measure of respect from even those who are ideologically opposed to you.

65 Gus  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:58:29am
66 researchok  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:58:33am

re: #47 Gus

Easier divorce laws.
/

67 Charles Johnson  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:58:53am

Obama Declares Support for Gay Marriage.

President Obama today announced that he now supports same-sex marriage, reversing his longstanding opposition amid growing pressure from the Democratic base and even his own vice president.

In an interview with ABC News’ Robin Roberts, the president described his thought process as an “evolution” that led him to this place, based on conversations with his own staff members, openly gay and lesbian service members, and conversations with his wife and own daughters.

"I have to tell you that over the course of several years as I have talked to friends and family and neighbors when I think about members of my own staff who are in incredibly committed monogamous relationships, same-sex relationships, who are raising kids together, when I think about those soldiers or airmen or marines or sailors who are out there fighting on my behalf and yet feel constrained, even now that Don't Ask Don't Tell is gone, because they are not able to commit themselves in a marriage, at a certain point I’ve just concluded that for me personally it is important for me to go ahead and affirm that I think same sex couples should be able to get married,” Obama told Roberts, in an interview to appear on ABC’s “Good Morning America” Thursday. Excerpts of the interview will air tonight on ABC’s “World News with Diane Sawyer.”

68 Lidane  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:58:54am

re: #61 Decatur Deb

Biden is a wonderful test-bed. If a statement flies, he's a harbinger of administration policy. If it bombs, he's "just ol' Joe".

Pretty much. Biden is the canary in the coal mine. If he says something and it fails, he's already got a reputation as a loose canon that shoots his mouth off.

69 Gus  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:59:24am

Woohoo!

70 EastSider  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:59:37am

re: #67 Charles Johnson

re: #54 EastSider

Do I get internet points for being right 30 seconds in advance of the release or anything?

71 HappyWarrior  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:59:46am

He did the right thing here.

72 b_sharp  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:59:52am

re: #33 simoom

I'm really torn on this. Biden's distraction probably necessitated a public statement, but it may be bad news no matter what the President does in the interview.

If he reiterates his previous statements, which have basically been what his personal religious beliefs are on marriage and that he doesn't support discriminatory laws and constitutional amendments, that he was publicly opposed to NC's amendment 1 (he came out against it in March), that he's worked to roll back discriminatory laws federally like DADT and DOMA, etc the left will have one of it's typical, apocalyptic meltdowns at his "betrayal".

If he comes out publicly in favor of full marriage equality, something his admin has hinted to the left he'd likely do after the election, he'll likely encourage, combined with what happened in NC with Amendment 1, GOP controlled legislatures across the country to again make Gay Marriage an election year ballot issue wedge. I'm unsure how that would turn out but I lean toward it being most likely a setback for LGBT rights with more constitutional amendments passing and increased GOP enthusiasm / turnout.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

73 Obdicut  Wed, May 9, 2012 11:59:54am

Welp. Okay, gay community and allies: You totally deserve this, absolutely, but it's going to be a hell of a fight. Time to get out there and support the hell out of Obama.

74 Targetpractice  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:00:14pm

Somebody hear popcorn popping?

//

75 Lidane  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:00:41pm

Good for President Obama. Civil rights are civil rights, and they should be supported.

76 Killgore Trout  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:01:00pm

re: #63 Lidane

That sound you hear is a million wingnut 'splodey heads:

Obama declares support for gay marriage

In an interview with ABC News’ Robin Roberts, the president described his thought process as an “evolution” that led him to this place, based on conversations with his own staff members, openly gay and lesbian service members, and conversations with his wife and own daughters.

Brace yourselves. Classless attacks on Obama's family are coming.

77 Decatur Deb  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:01:18pm

If Romney takes the bait, he'll run right into the arms of the dead-enders.

78 Simply Sarah  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:01:51pm

Well, colour me surprised. Now, my next question is: Why did he wait until the day after the NC vote to say this? Was it on the theory that his direct support would further increase support for the amendment or something else?

79 jamesfirecat  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:02:01pm

re: #77 Decatur Deb

If Romney takes the bait, he'll run right into the arms of the dead-enders.

Isn't he already wrapped up in said arms pretty tightly?

80 Lidane  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:02:06pm

re: #76 Killgore Trout

Brace yourselves. Classless attacks on Obama's family are coming.

That would happen anyway. The wingnuts hate everything about Barack Obama, including his wife and daughters.

81 EdDantes  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:02:18pm

I don't like "evolving" positions. My ass is evolving but I still claim it as my own.

82 Targetpractice  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:02:31pm

re: #75 Lidane

Good for President Obama. Civil rights are civil rights, and they should be supported.

And they sure as fuck should not be decided by referendum.

83 EastSider  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:02:36pm

re: #63 Lidane

That sound you hear is a million wingnut 'splodey heads:

Obama declares support for gay marriage

Not sure about that:

PublicPolicyPolling ‏ @ppppolls
On national poll last weekend we found most voters opposed to legal recognition for gay couples ALREADY think Obama supports gay marriage

84 Killgore Trout  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:03:08pm

re: #75 Lidane

Good for President Obama. Civil rights are civil rights, and they should be supported.

Agreed. I think it's extra cool because the public is pretty much evenly divided on the issue so there's not a whole lot of cheap political gain to be had by pandering. I think it's probably a principled decision.

85 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:03:20pm

re: #81 EdDantes

I don't like "evolving" positions. My ass is evolving but I still claim it as my own.

things evolve to adapt to changing conditions. nature does it all the time.

86 Decatur Deb  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:03:46pm

re: #79 jamesfirecat

Isn't he already wrapped up in said arms pretty tightly?

Nope--still tries to appear sane on Tuesdays and Thursdays.

87 EdDantes  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:03:48pm

re: #81 EdDantes

I don't like "evolving" positions. My ass is evolving but I still claim it as my own.

Scratch that. I'm gonna let it drop.

88 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:04:31pm

re: #81 EdDantes

I don't like "evolving" positions. My ass is evolving but I still claim it as my own.

Better than rigid but bigoted ones in my book...

89 jamesfirecat  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:04:35pm

Good for Obama it can't be healthy for the soul to stand for the idea of the government being able to decide who can and can't get married, when at the time of his conception the government wouldn't have allowed his parents to get married....

90 Charles Johnson  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:04:59pm

Added a video clip from ABC above...

91 b_sharp  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:05:03pm

re: #81 EdDantes

I don't like "evolving" positions. My ass is evolving but I still claim it as my own.

New information, a new ecology or environment, demands an evolution of opinion, if you aren't obscenely rigid in your world view.

92 Lidane  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:05:04pm

re: #82 Targetpractice

And they sure as fuck should not be decided by referendum.

If civil rights were determined by popular vote, we'd still have Jim Crow laws, interracial marriages would be banned, and women wouldn't be allowed to vote.

The idea that we should leave something as serious as full equality under the law up to voters is ridiculous.

93 funky chicken  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:05:34pm

re: #76 Killgore Trout

Brace yourselves. Classless attacks on Obama's family are coming.

Why? Sasha and Malia are a bit young to be considering marriage at this time, aren't they?

94 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:05:43pm

Despite the purely symbolic value, this is quite historic - the first acting US president to endorse marriage equality.

95 EastSider  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:05:50pm

re: #81 EdDantes

I don't like "evolving" positions. My ass is evolving but I still claim it as my own.

Honestly, your post highlights the bravest aspect of this point.

The fact that his perspective can "evolve" is a dangerous stance to take in modern politics. Dems are making hay from Romney's flip flopping, and the specific issue aside, this could be used against Obama as a sign of a lack of integrity, e.g. "what issues will Obama 'evolve' on next? [scary music]"

/to be clear: I think that this decision itself is correct and that the concept of an evolving position is necessary for a "modern statesman." I also think it sucks that this is a liability in politics. But that's just the world we live in.

96 Obdicut  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:06:15pm

Just in time for mother's day.

Here's to all the lesbian couples out there rearing kids together without the benefits of marriage. They're doing the actual bootstrappy thing. It'd be nice to give them the same breaks and rights that heterosexual people get.

97 Simply Sarah  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:06:17pm

re: #93 funky chicken

Why? Sasha and Malia are a bit young to be considering marriage at this time, aren't they?

Since when has logic or reality ever stopped the attacks?

98 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:06:33pm

re: #93 funky chicken

Why? Sasha and Malia are a bit young to be considering marriage at this time, aren't they?

They called them ghetto sluts in 2009. Do you think things got better?

99 iceweasel  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:06:39pm

Whee! I'm glad Obama did the right thing-- finally. I'm glad he's out front with this even if I wish he'd done it earlier. The arc of the universe is long but it bends toward justice.

100 SpaceJesus  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:07:06pm

A guy I went to law school with posted something about this on facebook today. He had two moms growing up. I thought it was worth a share.

"I am trying to stay out of political discussions on Facebook, but this thing in North Carolina is keeping me awake. I'm not trying to offend anyone, just clear my head.

I got married a little over two years ago to an amazing woman, and it's the best decision I've made in my life. Before getting married, Lauren and I had many conversations about what marriage means to each of us. To me, marriage is more than just a private bond between two people; it's also an agreement with society saying that each spouse has taken on the important responsibility of providing for the other's physical, emotional, and spiritual needs. It provides security not just to each partner, but an assurance that it will not fall on the rest of the community to provide care if one partner needs it. "You guys are free to go on about your business. We've got each others backs over here." In return, society agrees to give respect and support in countless ways, both material and not, to the couple and the bond that holds the two together. I know that's not the most romantic way of looking at things, but I think it's one of the most important functions of marriage. In that way, I believe marriage truly is one of the building blocks of civilization.

My mothers went to superhuman lengths to protect me from the homophobia in society that could have easily defined my childhood years. My sister and I have different perceptions of our childhood, but I can't think of a single time in my life when I have been personally attacked because of my parents' sexuality. Reactions when I tell people about my parents have always fallen between total support and innocent (and understandable) confusion about the mechanics involved.

Therefore, it is a tribute to my mothers and father that I didn't really start to think about the irony of my situation until very soon before my own wedding. I was getting married but my parents (who have been together for 35 years) are denied the same right to do so. And who benefits from preventing them from marrying? Nobody.

I have always been patient in my outlook toward civil rights for the lgbt community. My patience is a luxury that most in the lgbt community cannot share. I have been able to stay patient because my life experiences have not caused me to to face personal rejection, hatred, or fear because of my parents' or my own sexual orientation. I don't have the personal scars that so many others have. From my perspective, I see that many people who are fearful of gay people are ignorant and just don't know any better. They've just never had an opportunity to change their minds. I see the generational change that is taking place. In 20 years, this entire issue will be ancient history and we won't remember what all the fuss was about. The change is inevitable.

But my parents are not young like me. Nancy is turning 62 this year and Roberta is 68. They might not be here in 20 years. They have held up their end of the marriage bargain for 35 years by caring and providing for each other and their children so that the rest of society didn't have to. They deserve to have society uphold its end of the marriage bargain by giving respect and support to their relationship in the same way that it would to a married man and woman in a 35 year relationship with grown children. I'm not a radical activist, but I'm finding it hard to stay patient when there is a personal expiration date on the issue.

I'm not sure exactly who I'm writing this for, but I would like people to respond if they have thoughts. I have lots more to say, but this is enough for now."

101 b_sharp  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:07:09pm

re: #94 May Day! May Day!

Despite the purely symbolic value, this is quite historic - the first acting US president to endorse marriage equality.

Goes with the first black president.

102 Archangelus  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:07:23pm

re: #63 Lidane

That sound you hear is a million wingnut 'splodey heads:

OK, imminent disturbance in The Derp detected - time to get the popcorn and drinks, show's on... :)

103 Gus  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:07:53pm

Wait a minute. The Romney camp has made a press release announcing that "Mitt Romney has always supported same-sex marriage and that he was the inspiration for Obama."

//

104 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:07:54pm

re: #101 b_sharp

Goes with the first black president.

Aha!

105 funky chicken  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:08:41pm

re: #98 May Day! May Day!

They called them ghetto sluts in 2009. Do you think things got better?

I did not know that. Wow.

106 iossarian  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:08:51pm

Romney takes a lot of the credit for this.

107 HappyWarrior  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:08:54pm

re: #103 Gus

Wait a minute. The Romney camp has made a press release announcing that "Mitt Romney has always supported same-sex marriage and that he was the inspiration for Obama."

//

Haha sad thing is that's something Mitt would do if he wasn't afraid of Bryan Fischer giving him a wedgie.

108 iossarian  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:09:42pm

re: #103 Gus

Wait a minute. The Romney camp has made a press release announcing that "Mitt Romney has always supported same-sex marriage and that he was the inspiration for Obama."

//

Ha ha. GMTA.

109 Targetpractice  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:10:10pm

Romney will have a response just as soon as Bryan Fischer gets done writing it for him.

110 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:10:11pm

Obama pointed out in his autibiography that at the time his parents got married, interracial marriage was still illegal in several states. I am sure that also influenced his opinion on gay marriage.

111 Decatur Deb  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:12:19pm

re: #99 Millicent Islam

Whee! I'm glad Obama did the right thing-- finally. I'm glad he's out front with this even if I wish he'd done it earlier. The arc of the universe is long but it bends toward justice.

It was your listing here of legal disadvantages involved in the 'civil unions' status that moved me into the gay marriage position. The Prez and I are both evolving.

112 iceweasel  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:13:12pm

re: #111 Decatur Deb

It was your listing here of legal disadvantages involved in the 'civil unions' status that moved me into the gay marriage position. The Prez and I are both evolving.

Wow, thanks. That made my day! :)

113 EdDantes  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:14:45pm

re: #95 EastSider

I agree with the Lord Keynes quote, " When new facts are presented, I change my opinion. What do you do sir?" I don't believe there are any new facts. I want to know what an elected representatives beliefs on issues are that he/she might be able to influence. I applaud the president for stating his beliefs.

114 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:15:37pm

re: #105 funky chicken

I did not know that. Wow.

[Link: www.drivebyplanet.com...]

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

115 sagehen  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:15:38pm

re: #63 Lidane

That sound you hear is a million wingnut 'splodey heads:

Obama declares support for gay marriage

Is that what 'splodey wingnut heads sound like? I thought for sure it was the sound of Hollywood and Wall Street checkbooks opening....

116 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:15:58pm

re: #112 Millicent Islam

Wow, thanks. That made my day! :)

Hi Ice! Hope you are doing well..

117 EastSider  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:16:16pm

Right Wing Responses:

1) His opinion doesn't matter.
(ironic due to what will be a coordinated right wing response)

2) He better not try to co-opt the process and do this via a fiat
(true story, they love to hate the concept of Obama issuing fiats. I laugh because I think of him handing out tiny cars)

3) He's impinging on freedom of religion.

4) He's focusing on the wrong issues (social vs economy). They will completely miss the irony of this.

5) He supports man/goat sex and man/child sex. Because it's the same thing as gay sex.

118 Bulworth  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:16:36pm

re: #3 Decatur Deb

If he does, he can kiss off the Freeper vote.

It would be terrible to lose the freeper vote. they came out for him so strongly last time. //

119 darthstar  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:16:40pm

Sharia Gay Marriage!

120 PhillyPretzel  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:17:09pm

re: #117 EastSider

Yes. that is what they will say.

121 EdDantes  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:17:21pm

re: #119 darthstar

Free the Indianapolis 500!

122 Gus  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:17:22pm

The log cabin is empty.

123 iceweasel  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:17:38pm

I have to check out the tasty wingnut tears about this.....time to wade into the swamps!

124 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:17:38pm

Obama has just lost the Taliban vote.

125 darthstar  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:18:02pm

Log Cabin Republicans - truly oxymoronic.

[Link: www.logcabin.org...]

126 Gus  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:18:12pm

re: #124 May Day! May Day!

Obama has just lost the Taliban vote.

Can I borrow that?

127 Bulworth  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:18:24pm

re: #122 Gus

The log cabin is empty.

What was supposedly offensive and callous about his statement?

128 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:18:52pm

re: #123 Millicent Islam

I have to check out the tasty wingnut tears about this...time to wade into the swamps!

Share the fruits with us!

129 darthstar  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:18:59pm

re: #127 Bulworth

What was supposedly offensive and callous about his statement?

It wasn't said by Mitt Romney.

130 Obdicut  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:19:08pm

re: #122 Gus

That is fucking ridiculous.

131 Gus  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:19:12pm
132 darthstar  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:19:20pm

re: #128 May Day! May Day!

Share the fruits with us!

They're busy making wedding plans.

133 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:19:26pm

re: #126 Gus

Can I borrow that?

Sure. 5$ a quote. /kiddin

134 EastSider  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:19:28pm

re: #127 Bulworth

What was supposedly offensive and callous about his statement?

He was a meanie head who didn't say things I liked. But even if he did I would be maddy face anyway because he didn't say them fast enough or on enough TV channels or with the right syntax.

/

135 dragonath  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:19:34pm

re: #122 Gus

People who love money more than each other. The definition of a modern Republican. Hate and more hate.

136 Obdicut  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:19:37pm

re: #127 Bulworth

What was supposedly offensive and callous about his statement?

It was too late to help stop the North Carolina bill from passing.

137 HappyWarrior  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:19:40pm

re: #122 Gus

[Embedded content] The log cabin is empty.

callous? Seriously LCR, seriously? The man embraces marriage equality and they're calling it callous.

138 iceweasel  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:20:27pm

re: #116 HoosierHoops

Hi Ice! Hope you are doing well..

Hi Hoops! We're great, just sitting here listening to music and reading LGF! How are you?

Chemical Brothers-- Hoops

139 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:20:37pm
Obama Expected to Make Statement on Gay Marriage - Update: Now Supports Same Sex Marriage

Welcome to the party pal.--John McClane/Die Hard/1998

/watch out for the shrapnelized bits of wingnut brains headed your way from the head explodees...

140 Targetpractice  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:20:44pm

re: #117 EastSider

Right Wing Responses:

1) His opinion doesn't matter.
(ironic due to what will be a coordinated right wing response)

If a wingnut says that, they're lying to your face.

2) He better not try to co-opt the process and do this via a fiat
(true story, they love to hate the concept of Obama issuing fiats. I laugh because I think of him handing out tiny cars)

Where do I sign up for my Cinquecento? //

3) He's impinging on freedom of religion.

Freedom of religion does not mean one is free to make bigotry law.

4) He's focusing on the wrong issues (social vs economy). They will completely miss the irony of this.

Says the folks waging a war on women daily.

5) He supports man/goat sex and man/child sex. Because it's the same thing as gay sex.

Cats and dogs living together, mass hysteria!//

141 Lidane  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:20:46pm

re: #131 Gus

Dear Shep,

Obama might have joined the 21st Century, but your employer has not. Please stop whoring yourself out to Faux News and find a real news agency to work for.

Sincerely,
Me

142 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:21:13pm

re: #132 darthstar

They're busy making wedding plans.

OK, that took a minute ;)

143 EdDantes  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:21:23pm

re: #122 Gus

[Embedded content] The log cabin is empty.

I'm to the left of the log cabin republicans? What a sound!

144 erik_t  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:22:07pm

re: #137 HappyWarrior

callous? Seriously LCR, seriously? The man embraces marriage equality and they're calling it callous.

The words are derogatory. What the words themselves mean, and whether or not they are aligned with the facts, is beside the point. Frankly, this is refreshing honesty.

145 Jack Burton  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:22:11pm

re: #117 EastSider

Right Wing Responses:

1) His opinion doesn't matter.
(ironic due to what will be a coordinated right wing response)

2) He better not try to co-opt the process and do this via a fiat
(true story, they love to hate the concept of Obama issuing fiats. I laugh because I think of him handing out tiny cars)

3) He's impinging on freedom of religion.

4) He's focusing on the wrong issues (social vs economy). They will completely miss the irony of this.

5) He supports man/goat sex and man/child sex. Because it's the same thing as gay sex.

It will probably be a whole lot of 3 with a dash of some 4 and 5. The GoP has a big problem with 3. "Not letting me oppress others is the government oppressing me!!!1!1"

146 Targetpractice  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:23:09pm

re: #122 Gus

[Embedded content] The log cabin is empty.

The Log Cabin's become a joke.

147 Simply Sarah  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:23:29pm

re: #122 Gus

[Embedded content] The log cabin is empty.

Eh, as I said above, I'm somewhat wondering the same thing, just perhaps with less inflammatory language.

148 HappyWarrior  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:23:53pm

re: #144 erik_t

The words are derogatory. What the words themselves mean, and whether or not they are aligned with the facts, is beside the point. Frankly, this is refreshing honesty.

Refreshing in the sense that they're admitting that they're hacks for the Republican party, sure I can go along with that

149 Lidane  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:23:53pm

re: #122 Gus

Log Cabin Republicans are a joke. How much do you have to hate yourself to actively vote for a political party that thinks you're subhuman and depraved?

150 iossarian  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:24:29pm

Log Cabin Fever:

1) Republicans voted overwhelmingly to ban gay people from getting married in NC
2) Obama has said gay people should be able to get married
3) I think gay people should be able to get married
4) ???
5) OBAMA IS CALLOUS AND MEAN

151 goddamnedfrank  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:25:32pm

re: #136 Obdicut

It was too late to help stop the North Carolina bill from passing.

LCR is just mad about NC, which I understand, and dealing with self loathing rage about who they're nominally aligned with, but nothing Obama said was going to swing a 61 to 39 vote the other way.

152 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:25:36pm

re: #150 iossarian

Log Cabin Fever:

1) Republicans voted overwhelmingly to ban gay people from getting married in NC
2) Obama has said gay people should be able to get married
3) I think gay people should be able to get married
4) ???
5) OBAMA IS CALLOUS AND MEAN

Are we sure it's a cabin and not a ... car?

153 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:25:42pm

To paraphrase the Clash,

Washington calling to the faraway towns
Now that war is declared-and battle come down
Washington calling to the underworld
Come out of the cupboard, all you boys and girls

It's what's right & I'll be there for it, but it's all going to break loose now.

154 EdDantes  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:26:26pm

re: #141 Lidane

Shep is a good anchor at Fox and should remain because he is not right wing and frequently makes his non-Fox-like opinions known, such as that statement. Fox is a little more diverse than it is given credit for.

155 Archangelus  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:26:27pm

re: #117 EastSider

Right Wing Responses:

1) His opinion doesn't matter.
(ironic due to what will be a coordinated right wing response)

2) He better not try to co-opt the process and do this via a fiat
(true story, they love to hate the concept of Obama issuing fiats. I laugh because I think of him handing out tiny cars)

3) He's impinging on freedom of religion.

4) He's focusing on the wrong issues (social vs economy). They will completely miss the irony of this.

5) He supports man/goat sex and man/child sex. Because it's the same thing as gay sex.

Probably '6) All of the above'...

156 Bubblehead II  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:26:41pm

Freepers are getting started up.

Obama is bisexual. Ive known that since the first day I saw him on TV..Obama likes pitching for both teams.

But of course. The “moral-degenerate in chief” supports moral-degeneracy. And now has finally put it on the record. It’s an all-out crime that someone like Obama is living in the White House. He belongs in a gutter.

Of course he does. He’s a homo.

He talked to his young daughters about homosexuality?
Wow, very creepy.

I suspect that he wants a same sex marriage for himself.I doubt that the Moose would really care at this point.

and more.

157 iossarian  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:27:33pm

re: #156 Bubblehead II

Freepers are getting started up.

Obama is bisexual. Ive known that since the first day I saw him on TV..Obama likes pitching for both teams.

But of course. The “moral-degenerate in chief” supports moral-degeneracy. And now has finally put it on the record. It’s an all-out crime that someone like Obama is living in the White House. He belongs in a gutter.

Of course he does. He’s a homo.

He talked to his young daughters about homosexuality?
Wow, very creepy.

I suspect that he wants a same sex marriage for himself.I doubt that the Moose would really care at this point.

and more.

Standard Christian thinking.

158 Targetpractice  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:27:36pm

re: #156 Bubblehead II

Freepers are getting started up.

Obama is bisexual. Ive known that since the first day I saw him on TV..Obama likes pitching for both teams.

But of course. The “moral-degenerate in chief” supports moral-degeneracy. And now has finally put it on the record. It’s an all-out crime that someone like Obama is living in the White House. He belongs in a gutter.

Of course he does. He’s a homo.

He talked to his young daughters about homosexuality?
Wow, very creepy.

I suspect that he wants a same sex marriage for himself.I doubt that the Moose would really care at this point.

and more.

*sigh* Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit drinkin'.

//

159 Archangelus  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:27:47pm

re: #156 Bubblehead II

Freepers are getting started up.

And this is meant to be surprising... how, exactly? :)

160 Jack Burton  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:28:08pm

re: #156 Bubblehead II

Mos Freeply Spaceport. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.

161 HappyWarrior  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:28:09pm

re: #156 Bubblehead II

Freepers are getting started up.

Obama is bisexual. Ive known that since the first day I saw him on TV..Obama likes pitching for both teams.

But of course. The “moral-degenerate in chief” supports moral-degeneracy. And now has finally put it on the record. It’s an all-out crime that someone like Obama is living in the White House. He belongs in a gutter.

Of course he does. He’s a homo.

He talked to his young daughters about homosexuality?
Wow, very creepy.

I suspect that he wants a same sex marriage for himself.I doubt that the Moose would really care at this point.

and more.

Freeper logic, he supports gay marriage, ergo he's gay.

162 Simply Sarah  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:28:12pm

re: #156 Bubblehead II

Freepers are getting started up.

Obama is bisexual. Ive known that since the first day I saw him on TV..Obama likes pitching for both teams.

But of course. The “moral-degenerate in chief” supports moral-degeneracy. And now has finally put it on the record. It’s an all-out crime that someone like Obama is living in the White House. He belongs in a gutter.

Of course he does. He’s a homo.

He talked to his young daughters about homosexuality?
Wow, very creepy.

I suspect that he wants a same sex marriage for himself.I doubt that the Moose would really care at this point.

and more.

Yeah, yeah. Same old FR song and dance. They can go fuck themselves, but I'm sure they won't because that probably sound faggy to them too.

163 Bulworth  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:28:14pm

re: #30 Targetpractice

Nah, he did one better this morning:

Richard Mourdock: ‘Bipartisanship Ought To Consist Of Democrats Coming To The Republican Point Of View’

And whenever the Dems control all three branches the Repubs come to the Democrat---. Oh, yeah. Never mind.

164 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:28:17pm

re: #138 Millicent Islam

Hi Hoops! We're great, just sitting here listening to music and reading LGF! How are you?

Chemical Brothers-- Hoops

Awesome...Things are great here. Winston and I are getting ready for the road trip. Heading to the lake house next week for a visit then to Indy for the race memorial day.

165 Archangelus  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:28:36pm

re: #160 ArchangelMichael

Mos Freeply Spaceport. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.

Damnit, beat me to it :D

166 Gus  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:28:39pm
167 iceweasel  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:29:20pm

Heads a-poppin':

Obama is a CORRUPT LYING CROOK on May 9, 3:24 PM said:

@ABC: Fake Ass Phony Hypocrite Flip Floper ......Let me see I will go with whatever way the Polls tell me to go

OBAMA SUCKS - WEAK, LIAR, CORRUPT AND INCOMPETENT THE WORST PREDISENT EVER!

168 Decatur Deb  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:29:37pm

re: #156 Bubblehead II

Freepers are getting started up.

Obama is bisexual. Ive known that since the first day I saw him on TV..Obama likes pitching for both teams.

But of course. The “moral-degenerate in chief” supports moral-degeneracy. And now has finally put it on the record. It’s an all-out crime that someone like Obama is living in the White House. He belongs in a gutter.

Of course he does. He’s a homo.

He talked to his young daughters about homosexuality?
Wow, very creepy.

I suspect that he wants a same sex marriage for himself.I doubt that the Moose would really care at this point.

and more.

Going to wait until the derpalanche builds a little before freeping.

169 goddamnedfrank  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:29:50pm

re: #146 Targetpractice

The Log Cabin's become a joke.

It's too bad really, because their lawsuit became the reason that DADT was overturned. They could have capitalized on that kind of effectiveness to stay modern and at the forefront of the struggle. They had an opportunity to turn their name into a constant vestigial reminder of where they came from and how irredeemable the GOP has become. Instead they're floundering about and lashing out in unfocused rage.

170 Political Atheist  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:30:16pm

""but LGBT Americans are right to be angry that this calculated announcement comes too late to be of any use to the people of North Carolina, or any of the other states that have addressed this issue on his watch. This administration has manipulated LGBT families for political gain as much as anybody, and after his campaign’s ridiculous contortions to deny support for marriage equality this week he does not deserve praise for an announcement that comes a day late and a dollar short.”"

I say they have a valid point there.

171 Gus  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:30:22pm

re: #167 Millicent Islam

Heads a-poppin':

Obama is a CORRUPT LYING CROOK on May 9, 3:24 PM said:
@ABC: Fake Ass Phony Hypocrite Flip Floper ...Let me see I will go with whatever way the Polls tell me to go

OBAMA SUCKS - WEAK, LIAR, CORRUPT AND INCOMPETENT THE WORST PREDISENT EVER!

Just watching the wingnuts freak out will be worth it.

172 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:31:10pm

I look forward to seeing the full-on hatefest that is about to ensue. Should prove entertaining and highly informative. A teachable moment, if you will.

173 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:31:41pm

re: #172 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

I look forward to seeing the full-on hatefest that is about to ensue. Should prove entertaining and highly informative. A teachable moment, if you will.

a teachable moment for those who are capable of learning anything...

174 Obdicut  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:32:16pm

re: #170 Daniel Ballard

So what, though? Yes, Obama is making this announcement now, not in the past. Therefore, it's really obvious that it didn't, previously, push forward gay rights in whatever way it will to have him openly say it.

Unless there's some idea that Obama would flip on this issue-- which is pretty damn unthinkable-- that means he's come around to the correct point of view, and whatever reservations people previously had about him and gay rights-- even though he's done a ton during his tenure to advance gay rights-- should now be relieved.

175 iossarian  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:32:20pm

re: #170 Daniel Ballard

""but LGBT Americans are right to be angry that this calculated announcement comes too late to be of any use to the people of North Carolina, or any of the other states that have addressed this issue on his watch. This administration has manipulated LGBT families for political gain as much as anybody, and after his campaign’s ridiculous contortions to deny support for marriage equality this week he does not deserve praise for an announcement that comes a day late and a dollar short.”"

I say they have a valid point there.

Yup, yup. Obama is using social issues for political gain. *eyeroll*

176 jamesfirecat  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:32:35pm

re: #170 Daniel Ballard

""but LGBT Americans are right to be angry that this calculated announcement comes too late to be of any use to the people of North Carolina, or any of the other states that have addressed this issue on his watch. This administration has manipulated LGBT families for political gain as much as anybody, and after his campaign’s ridiculous contortions to deny support for marriage equality this week he does not deserve praise for an announcement that comes a day late and a dollar short.”"

I say they have a valid point there.

The vast majority of people who oppose gay marriage are Republicans. Why do you think hearing Obama was for it would change their minds?

177 iossarian  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:33:42pm

The Log Cabin response seems to be: "Once again, the Republican party has given us a massive kick in the crotch, and we're really mad with Obama for coming along and giving us a kiss on the cheek right afterwards."

178 Gus  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:33:43pm

There's never a "right moment" for wingnuts. They'll always fabricate the wrong moment.

179 Bubblehead II  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:34:20pm

re: #159 Archangelus

And this is meant to be surprising... how, exactly? :)

It's not. Just thought I would save Charles some time and effort by heading over there first.

Keeping an eye on the Shrieking Harpy as well. You just know that she is going to post something vile about this. Perhaps even drag out that old story about him being gay.

180 Lidane  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:34:33pm

and

Haha.

181 Archangelus  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:34:42pm

Whoo boy, turns out a couple FB friends of mine were closet Freepers... don't think i've ever rushed to hit a button so fast as I did seeking the "unfriend" one...

182 PhillyPretzel  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:34:45pm

At The Wall Street Journal's Washington Wire there is a whole bunch of comments that are running the whole range of emotions. [Link: blogs.wsj.com...]

183 iossarian  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:34:51pm

re: #178 Gus

There's never a "right moment" for wingnuts. They'll always fabricate the wrong moment.

THE COUNTRY'S NOT READY

THE COUNTRY'S NOT READY

THE COUNTRY'S NOT READY

... Obama speaks ...

IT'S TOO LATE FOR THAT NOW

IT'S TOO LATE FOR THAT NOW

etc.

184 Gus  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:34:59pm

Crazy people remain crazy...

185 iceweasel  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:35:00pm

re: #171 Gus

Just watching the wingnuts freak out will be worth it.

Time to post appropriate videos!

Youtube Video
186 HappyWarrior  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:35:29pm

Let's say he comes out in support earlier. He'd still be hammered and the initiative would still passed overwhelmingly in NC. LCR should be mad at their own party for being the ones who strongly support these bans not Obama.

187 Targetpractice  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:35:35pm

re: #170 Daniel Ballard

""but LGBT Americans are right to be angry that this calculated announcement comes too late to be of any use to the people of North Carolina, or any of the other states that have addressed this issue on his watch. This administration has manipulated LGBT families for political gain as much as anybody, and after his campaign’s ridiculous contortions to deny support for marriage equality this week he does not deserve praise for an announcement that comes a day late and a dollar short.”"

I say they have a valid point there.

The only "point" in evidence is the one atop their heads. I'd like to see some proof that Obama coming out in favor of gay marriage prior to last night's vote in NC would have made one iota of difference. If anything, I'm inclined to believe his support of gay marriage would have spurred the socons in NC into overdrive.

188 iceweasel  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:35:46pm

re: #179 Bubblehead II

It's not. Just thought I would save Charles some time and effort by heading over there first.

Keeping an eye on the Shrieking Harpy as well. You just know that she is going to post something vile about this. Perhaps even drag out that old story about him being gay.

All the Freeper comments I've found so far are screaming that Obama's gay.

189 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:35:51pm

It did take some balls to announce this b4 the elections. All shouts of political calculation mean nothing.

190 darthstar  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:36:02pm

re: #180 Lidane

191 goddamnedfrank  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:36:18pm

re: #170 Daniel Ballard

""but LGBT Americans are right to be angry that this calculated announcement comes too late to be of any use to the people of North Carolina, or any of the other states that have addressed this issue on his watch. This administration has manipulated LGBT families for political gain as much as anybody, and after his campaign’s ridiculous contortions to deny support for marriage equality this week he does not deserve praise for an announcement that comes a day late and a dollar short.”"

I say they have a valid point there.

Again, NC Amendment 1 passed in a 61 to 39 percent vote. Nothing Obama could have possibly said would have changed that. I think he stalled and came out with this too late, but LCR are high if they think it would have made a bit of difference.

192 iossarian  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:36:18pm

re: #187 Targetpractice

The only "point" in evidence is the one atop their heads.

Lol. Debate over - internet won.

193 EastSider  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:36:21pm

I just got back from looking at my crystal ball. I was watching a debate between Obama and Romney in the Fall:

Romney tries desperately to state why gay people shouldn't be able to get married, Obama lights him up.

The right's position is not defensible. It's a repeat of the court case against Prop 8 in California, except it will be on the most public stage imaginable. The sides have been chosen, the die cast, and Romney loses.

194 dragonath  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:37:44pm

I kind of expect Romney to sputter on like the android that Captain Kirk immobilized just by talking to it.

"I am not programmed to respond in that area"

195 Targetpractice  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:38:02pm

re: #193 EastSider

I just got back from looking at my crystal ball. I was watching a debate between Obama and Romney in the Fall:

Romney tries desperately to state why gay people shouldn't be able to get married, Obama lights him up.

The right's position is not defensible. It's a repeat of the court case against Prop 8 in California, except it will be on the most public stage imaginable. The sides have been chosen, the die cast, and Romney loses.

I think the comments made upthread may be right, that Obama's going all in on civil rights, portraying his reelection as being in favor of protecting and extending civil rights in a second term, while a Romney presidency would fuel efforts to stall, if not begin stripping away, those rights.

196 darthstar  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:39:04pm
197 HappyWarrior  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:39:46pm

Either way, Obama's put Romney in the position of opposing rights for people. Not going to look good on the stump and at the debates.

198 iceweasel  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:39:49pm

Fox Nation's screaming headline:

OBAMA FLIP FLOPS, DECLARES WAR ON MARRIAGE

199 Lidane  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:39:54pm

re: #191 goddamnedfrank

Again, NC Amendment 1 passed in a 61 to 39 percent vote. Nothing Obama could have possibly said would have changed that. I think he stalled and came out with this too late, but LCR are high if they think it would have made a bit of difference.

Seriously. His support would not have changed the outcome of the vote.

200 Bubblehead II  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:40:01pm

re: #188 Millicent Islam

pretty much.

201 darthstar  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:40:04pm

Heh...

202 Obdicut  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:40:09pm

re: #195 Targetpractice

It kind of makes Romney run as the Religious Candidate.

I think it's good to really remind people the government isn't just about money and spending, and to ask them to seriously think if they trust the GOP to keep separation of church and state to a tolerable level, if they foresee any bottom to the slope that the GOP are on.

203 Obdicut  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:40:38pm

re: #198 Millicent Islam

Fox Nation's screaming headline:

OBAMA FLIP FLOPS, DECLARES WAR ON MARRIAGE

Man, they've totally let the mask drop. They're now just The Daily Mail, US.
Total tabloid.

204 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:40:58pm
Markos Moulitsas ‏ @markos
RT @joshorton: So who's making the "other issues we should ask Biden about" Tumblr?
205 HappyWarrior  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:41:22pm

re: #198 Millicent Islam

Fox Nation's screaming headline:

OBAMA FLIP FLOPS, DECLARES WAR ON MARRIAGE

Man they don't even care any more how stupid they sound.

206 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:41:26pm

re: #196 darthstar

[Embedded content]

Mr. Dayen can take all of my internets.

207 Targetpractice  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:41:37pm

re: #202 Obdicut

It kind of makes Romney run as the Religious Candidate.

I think it's good to really remind people the government isn't just about money and spending, and to ask them to seriously think if they trust the GOP to keep separation of church and state to a tolerable level, if they foresee any bottom to the slope that the GOP are on.

Also, by stating he still believes the states should decide, he cuts off Romney at the knees, because that's been the boilerplate GOP line whenever called on how disgusting it is to believe civil rights should be up to a vote.

208 Gus  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:41:38pm

re: #198 Millicent Islam

Fox Nation's screaming headline:

OBAMA FLIP FLOPS, DECLARES WAR ON MARRIAGE

Greenwald is patting himself on the back.

209 Obdicut  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:41:41pm

I bet the GOP house starts passing amendments that attach clauses like "PS gay people suck" to every bill.

210 Lidane  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:42:04pm

Dim Hoft's derp-a-palooza:

Obama Continues Attacks On Christian Church – Throws His Support Behind Gay Marriage (Video)

Dumbest man on the internet, hands down.

211 Ming  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:42:06pm

If memory serves, one reason that John Kerry lost Ohio in 2004 is that Ohio had a ballot measure to ban same-sex marriage, which is thought to have increased Republican voter turnout. Had Kerry won Ohio, he would have won the Electoral College. I assume that Republican operatives from Karl Rove on down, who remember 2004, will make same-sex marriage a wedge issue, in selected parts of the country.

In his statement of support for same-sex marriage, Obama said that he came to this viewpoint by personally knowing, and also hearing about, people in same-sex relationships. It's a very nice statement, and it invites all Americans to do what he did: talk to other people, be aware of people in same-sex relationships who are good people, and realize that these people fully deserve to have the same rights and privileges as everyone else. He didn't arrive at his position because he's obedient to some ideology. Instead, he observed reality, talked with others, and learned something new. This alone will make the wingnut heads explode; it's completely alien to their mindset of "whom shall I obey?"

212 Targetpractice  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:42:52pm

re: #198 Millicent Islam

Fox Nation's screaming headline:

OBAMA FLIP FLOPS, DECLARES WAR ON MARRIAGE

I hate when they hold back and don't tell us what they really think.

///

213 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:43:43pm

re: #210 Lidane

Dim Hoft's derp-a-palooza:

Obama Continues Attacks On Christian Church – Throws His Support Behind Gay Marriage (Video)

Dumbest man on the internet, hands down.

Vilest too.

BTW, with this line of "reasoning" he can show that Obama's endorsement is antisemitic.

214 dragonath  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:43:57pm

I think this makes Obama stronger. An attack on civil rights is an attack on everybody's rights. It's a concept that the voters in North Carolina couldn't figure out but the message is loud and clear:

Republicans aren't going to stop until everyone they hate is marginalized.

215 darthstar  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:44:23pm

I'd love to be a fly on the wall at Romney HQ right now...
"We need to come out strong, Mitt..."
"I'm against people marrying!"
"No, not that strong."
"He's really getting a lot of positive press...maybe I should say that I was for marriage equality all along."
"Shut up, Mitt...Let me handle this."
"Yes, Ann."

216 dragonfire1981  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:44:43pm

Someone on Twitter is postulating that Obama's support of gay marriage could potentially cost him half the black vote in November.

217 HappyWarrior  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:44:50pm

re: #210 Lidane

Dim Hoft's derp-a-palooza:

Obama Continues Attacks On Christian Church – Throws His Support Behind Gay Marriage (Video)

Dumbest man on the internet, hands down.

Like Dim Hoft cares about Christianity, Dim cares only about smearing Obama.

218 dragonfire1981  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:45:14pm

Also, anyone else think his reference to Christ in this statement was a very deliberate attempt to mess with the wingnuts?

219 Targetpractice  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:45:54pm

re: #216 dragonfire1981

Someone on Twitter is postulating that Obama's support of gay marriage could potentially cost him half the black vote in November.

And they'll go...where? Back home to sit on the couch?

220 [deleted]  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:45:55pm
221 darthstar  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:46:02pm

re: #216 dragonfire1981

Someone on Twitter is postulating that Obama's support of gay marriage could potentially cost him half the black vote in November.

Someone on twitter is wrong.

222 Gus  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:46:09pm

re: #213 May Day! May Day!

Vilest too.

BTW, with this line of "reasoning" he can show that Obama's endorsement is antisemitic.

And anti-Muslim no? Hoft's an idiot.

223 darthstar  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:46:32pm

re: #218 dragonfire1981

Also, anyone else think his reference to Christ in this statement was a very deliberate attempt to mess with the wingnuts?

He worships a different Christ. //

224 HappyWarrior  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:46:44pm

re: #216 dragonfire1981

Someone on Twitter is postulating that Obama's support of gay marriage could potentially cost him half the black vote in November.

Haha that's ridiculous. Even Eisenhower couldn't do that in a time when black voters still remembered the Republicans actually being the party of Lincoln.

225 Charles Johnson  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:47:46pm

The hate is already spewing like a firehose at Fox Nation:

226 Political Atheist  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:48:11pm

re: #220 Daniel Ballard

Oh crap. Charles or any monitor--- please delete this angry post. I just got horrible family news and it's just blown out my calm way into anger. My father in law has been diagnosed with bone cancer. I got the news minutes ago.

227 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:48:28pm

re: #222 Gus

And anti-Muslim no?

No. That would be a plus.//

228 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:48:46pm

re: #218 dragonfire1981

Also, anyone else think his reference to Christ in this statement was a very deliberate attempt to mess with the wingnuts?

No, it is simply indicative of somebody with a reasonable, enlightened view of Christ's teachings instead of a twisted, fundamentalist one.

229 Gus  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:48:53pm

re: #227 May Day! May Day!

No. That would be a plus.//

Oh. I was trying for some logic. //

230 EastSider  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:49:04pm

re: #221 darthstar

Someone on twitter is wrong.

First time for everything, I suppose.

231 Obdicut  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:49:14pm

re: #226 Daniel Ballard

I'm very sorry to hear that. What stage?

232 darthstar  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:49:27pm

re: #225 Charles Johnson

I like Hunter's response:

233 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:49:29pm

re: #226 Daniel Ballard

{{{Daniel}}}

234 Targetpractice  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:50:09pm

re: #226 Daniel Ballard

Oh crap. Charles or any monitor--- please delete this angry post. I just got horrible family news and it's just blown out my calm way into anger. My father in law has been diagnosed with bone cancer. I got the news minutes ago.

Seriously sorry to hear that. My best wishes to you and your family.

235 PhillyPretzel  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:50:21pm

re: #226 Daniel Ballard

You and your family are in my prayers.

236 lawhawk  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:50:59pm

This isn't a war on religion or a war on Christianity by a long shot.

It isn't forcing anyone to get married. It isn't forcing the Church or other religious groups to recognize gay marriages (they can choose to do - as some already do).

But by coming out in support of gay marriage, the President is taking a stand against the imposition of religious doctrines on the secular government (1st amendment separation of church and state ring a bell?).

It would have been nice that the President made this decision before yesterday's referendum in NC, but maybe he'll address the issue more forthrightly and directly going in to November.

237 garhighway  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:51:24pm

re: #76 Killgore Trout

Brace yourselves. Classless attacks on Obama's family are coming.

Of course they are. This is a day that ends in "y".

238 jamesfirecat  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:51:24pm

re: #220 Daniel Ballard

Considering the party they support, yes I do think LBGT Republicans care less about civil rights for LBGT who are independent or support democrats.

LBGT people who support republicans MUST do it because they care about SOMETHING other than their civil rights, otherwise they wouldn't vote for the part that treats them like second class citizens.

239 Charles Johnson  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:52:46pm

re: #226 Daniel Ballard

Sorry to hear that. Can it be treated?

240 lawhawk  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:52:47pm

re: #226 Daniel Ballard

I'm so sorry to hear that. My thoughts and prayers are with you and yours.

241 BongCrodny  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:53:04pm

Thank you, Mr. President.

242 Obdicut  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:53:05pm

Gay marriage is a perfectly conservative freaking position, too. It's marriage. It's boring old get married, commit yourselves to each other marriage. It's what the GOP claims to be highly in favor of.

243 Political Atheist  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:53:05pm

re: #231 Obdicut

I may not get more details until later. D_L was out to see her folks and sent me a message. They say he gets Chemo, but he is in his 80's. That Chemo is hard on the young. I just pray he can prevail and not suffer.

244 Targetpractice  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:53:05pm

re: #236 lawhawk

This isn't a war on religion or a war on Christianity by a long shot.

It isn't forcing anyone to get married. It isn't forcing the Church or other religious groups to recognize gay marriages (they can choose to do - as some already do).

But by coming out in support of gay marriage, the President is taking a stand against the imposition of religious doctrines on the secular government (1st amendment separation of church and state ring a bell?).

It would have been nice that the President made this decision before yesterday's referendum in NC, but maybe he'll address the issue more forthrightly and directly going in to November.

You have to remember that those slamming the "war on religion" button are the ones who think that there is no separation of church and state, that the Founders intended this to be a Christian nation, and that any laws that go against Christian belief are a violation of the rights of all Americans.

246 Obdicut  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:54:32pm

re: #243 Daniel Ballard

I'm not going to kid you, man, I hope for the best but it can be bad. Be prepared to treat your wife well, and if you need any resources for support groups for those dealing with a family member who has cancer, or any other info, hit me up. My wife is going into oncology, and she's already a published author on the subject with a deep interest in getting people accessible information.

247 Targetpractice  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:54:50pm

re: #242 Obdicut

Gay marriage is a perfectly conservative freaking position, too. It's marriage. It's boring old get married, commit yourselves to each other marriage. It's what the GOP claims to be highly in favor of.

I'm in favor of gay marriage because I believe they have a right to be miserable like everybody else.

//

248 Political Atheist  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:55:32pm

re: #239 Charles Johnson

Sorry to hear that. Can it be treated?

He is getting chemo, but at 82 it's a hard treatment to withstand. We'll have to see.

249 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:56:01pm

re: #244 Targetpractice

You have to remember that those slamming the "war on religion" button are the ones who think that there is no separation of church and state, that the Founders intended this to be a Christian nation, and that any laws that go against Christian belief are a violation of the rights of all Americans.

That is what Dominionism is about: our laws must reflect (their fundamentalist interpretation of) God's Divine Laws. Gay marriage, abortion, legalized gambling, prostitution, dfrug use, etc. are all abominations unto the Lord in their view, and our laws must reflect that view or the whole nation is doomed

250 Bubblehead II  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:56:10pm

re: #226 Daniel Ballard

Sorry to hear that. Best of luck to you and yours.

251 darthstar  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:57:12pm
(CBS News) FORT LUPTON, Colo. - Presumptive Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney on Wednesday said he unequivocally opposes "marriage between people of the same gender," drawing a contrast to President Obama's "evolving" position on the issue.

Whew...he came close to saying the word 'sex' there...fucking asshole.

252 dragonfire1981  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:57:43pm

Man the Fox News comments page on this story is absolutely EXPLODING. They are coming at over TWENTY every 30 seconds.

Here's a sample:

Ashamed to be an American; for the first time in my life I am open to living in any other country where I can be left alone from the perversions of the US government. I wish obama and all the democrats ill will and I will not defend this country again. It's my family and friends first and to hades with anyone else.
--
NiggyThe Panderer's failure of the day!!!!!! Keep failing NigBama!!!!!!
--
The majority oppose it.
He's just lost the election.
--
Homosexuality and lesbianism are personal sin issues trying to pass themselves off as 'rights'.
America...even morally challenged...has largely renounced same s e x marriage in 30 states.
Even the people of California voted to eliminated same s e x marriage 'rights' with Prop 8 in Nov. 2008.
--
THIS IS A GREAT DAY FOR ALL GOOD AMERICANS!!!!!!! THE END OF AN ERROR IS UPON US!!!!! HE ALREADY HAD THE VOTE OF EVERY DEVIANT WHO SUPPORTS GAY MARRIAGE, SO HE GAINED ZERO BY THIS POLITICALLY FOOLISH MOVE......BUT HE JUST LOST THE CRITICAL 2-3% IN THE MIDDLE< GURANTEEING HE GETS DEFEATED IN NOVEMBER!!!! "HAPPY DAYS ARE HERE AGAIN"
--
Democratic code for "I gots your backside Polesuckers"
"FOREWORD into OBAMA 2012!"
--
Obama is living proof that repeatedly beating your head on a prayer rug will cause brain damage!
--
Let's see now....30 states already have laws against s0d0mites getting married. So Oblamya comes out in support of it. Figures.
Nice move Barry. This flip-flop will cost you more than a few votes. I don't think any of the pole_smokin' nancys were gonna vote Republican anyway.
--
Another issue he is on the Wrong side of..................
I'm glad he Came Out............ Now America knows What kind of Deviant Behavior he Supports!!!!
--
LOL! What surprise. Everything this anti American COMMUNIST does and everything out of his MOUTH is the exact OPPOSITE of common decency and morality. Everything he does is the OPPOSITE of common sense and reason!
--
What a complete and utter DISASTER and DIGRACE this man is to this nation! Family is the FOUNDATION of success this nation was BUILT ON! And this DISGRACE wants to TEAR IT DOWN and make a mockery of the American Family!
--
Children are supposed to be raised by a man and a woman. Letting sick people who practice homosexuality, raise children is hurting not only our society, but it's hurting these children, and that has to stop.
--
FACT: homoFAGGOTS molesting has been on the rise since middle of 2009.
is this a coincidence?
--
obama...now that you come out for gay marriage, would you mind getting the phuckback to work and start worrying about unemployment, our $13 trillion dollar debt, holder's war on the citizenry, and solving our domestic energy problems....in other words, "don't be a DICK"
--
Can anyone say election year!!! The only way this COWARD can get back in is if he get the Pole Smokers and Carpet Munchers and Illegals to vote for him!! Then as soon as he gets re elected every thing will change!! This man is a liar and a coward we need him gone.

253 Political Atheist  Wed, May 9, 2012 12:59:22pm

Thanks to all who took a moment for the kind words. You folks are the best. I'll log out and take a stroll.

254 lawhawk  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:00:01pm

re: #252 dragonfire1981

Well, they can always try and follow Michele Bachmann's lead. She can always go to Switzerland. (and no, that's actually true - she became a naturalized Swiss citizen).

255 HappyWarrior  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:00:08pm

re: #252 dragonfire1981

Man the Fox News comments page on this story is absolutely EXPLODING. They are coming at over TWENTY every 30 seconds.

Here's a sample:

And I bet many of them think they're great Christians too. My favorite is the lunatic blaming Obama for child molestation.

256 Obdicut  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:02:11pm

Heh. Nice tweet on the Log Cabin's slam on Obama as 'cold':

257 S'latch  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:04:43pm

". . . important for me to go ahead and affirm that I think same sex couples should be able to get married . . .."

Barack Obama has believed for a long time that same-sex couples should be able to marry. The question is why he didn't affirm that it is what he believes earlier.

258 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:04:49pm

re: #226 Daniel Ballard

Oh crap. Charles or any monitor--- please delete this angry post. I just got horrible family news and it's just blown out my calm way into anger. My father in law has been diagnosed with bone cancer. I got the news minutes ago.

Make sure you've got a doc who understands pain management and isn't scared of the DEA. It'll be hard enough on you all as it is.

{{{Daniel Ballard}}}

259 sagehen  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:05:32pm

re: #216 dragonfire1981

Someone on Twitter is postulating that Obama's support of gay marriage could potentially cost him half the black vote in November.

Not a chance.

The only thing he could possibly do that would cost him the black vote... would be to cheat on Michelle.

With a white woman half her age.

260 jamesfirecat  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:06:36pm

re: #257 Lawrence Schmerel

". . . important for me to go ahead and affirm that I think same sex couples should be able to get married . . .."

Barack Obama has believed for a long time that same-sex couples should be able to marry. The question is why he didn't affirm that it is what he believes earlier.

Can you read Barack Obama's mind or what drives you to your conclusion that he has long believed same sex couples should be able to marry?

261 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:08:37pm

re: #243 Daniel Ballard

I may not get more details until later. D_L was out to see her folks and sent me a message. They say he gets Chemo, but he is in his 80's. That Chemo is hard on the young. I just pray he can prevail and not suffer.

I am deeply sorry..I know the pain is beyond anything you could post..Please comfort D_L for all of us. I said a prayer for you today.
I've been here a long time..
You I love Brother..
You I love..Be well

262 dragonfire1981  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:08:58pm

More from the Fox News comment trenches:

The group you have to be concerned about is w h i t e women voting for this fool. They just love their homosexual hair stylists, interior decorators, manicurists and fashion consultants. Besides, they put Kennedy, Carter, Clinton in office.
--
He says he's a christian yet he canceled the Christian national day of prayer at the white house in case he "offended" somebody, but he allowed the mu slim prayer day to go on. THAT OFFENDS ME!!!
--
Let's look at it this way: If those in favor gay marriage and gays boycott the thirty states with laws against gay marriage, then we will have a place to take our families. I'm going to North Carolina this summer.
--
So at the wedding ceremony do the faggots_exchange cock_rings?
--
My guess is this clears the deck for Lakqisha and LaShasa to bring home their white girlfriends....JMO
--
Obama better come out and support fathers marrying their adult daughters. Equal is Equal right?
--
Strange, when Romney changes a position the libs scream FLIP-FLOP. When the liar-in-chief does the same thing it is called "evolving."
--
Unwittingly (does he ever do it any other way?), Soetero can now pander to the NASCAR people....
"Hey, y'all, I'm the pole-sitter in this race!"
--
By By Obama... I don't even respect you enough to call you a President... you're a JOKE and will always be known for one. ahahaahahahaahahah
--
When Obama sits down to issue executive orders he does not think he is violating the Constitution, rather he says to himself, "I'm sodomizin dis bit ch!"
--
This is so frackin funny.
Anything this fool can say to divert from his abysmal record will be said.
Anything he can do to turn a few votes from people who are too dumb to see what he is doing will be done.
Gay MARRIAGE. What a joke. Not in our land OBOSO.
The truth is that the gays are so riddled with inconsistancies that they
are themselves unsure about their marriage idea.
--
I sure am glad that my grand mother is not alive to see this.
The first blk president of the US, stopping at nothing to be reelected.
next week he will have Mrs. Obama walking the streets of DC selling her assets for a vote. you have to wonder where it will end.
--
There will be much celebration among_faggots around the world. Emergency rooms worldwide are preparing for the associated spike in anaI prolapses that will surely follow.

263 S'latch  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:09:41pm

re: #260 jamesfirecat

He hasn't learned anything new about the issue. Nothing about the issue has changed . . . except for public support for it.

264 wrenchwench  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:09:55pm

re: #260 jamesfirecat

Can you read Barack Obama's mind or what drives you to your conclusion that he has long believed same sex couples should be able to marry?

I think there a lot of people like myself that just couldn't believe he wouldn't be fully in favor of gay rights, but had to behave politically to get elected. I'm just glad to see he doesn't think he has to waffle around with 'civil unions' nonsense to get reelected.

Now, on to the drug prohibition issue.... Maybe in his third term. //

265 gwangung  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:10:49pm

re: #216 dragonfire1981

Someone on Twitter is postulating that Obama's support of gay marriage could potentially cost him half the black vote in November.

They don't know many black people, do they?

266 Interesting Times  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:10:51pm
267 jamesfirecat  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:11:02pm

re: #263 Lawrence Schmerel

He hasn't learned anything new about the issue. Nothing about the issue has changed . . . except for public support for it.

Once again your statement relies on being able to reed Barack's mind, and doesn't he directly say in his speech that he's spent a lot of time talking to people affected by this issue, IE learning new things?

268 Charles Johnson  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:11:27pm

Wow, that Fox News comment thread is headed for some kind of record.

It's the ultimate firehose of hate.

269 Gus  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:12:12pm
270 Obdicut  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:14:40pm

re: #263 Lawrence Schmerel

I know people who have slowly come around on the issue, not through paying attention to polls, but in meeting and talking with gay people and taking it personally, which is what Obama said happened to him.

I think his actions in support of gay people have been great, but I think he honestly struggled with the marriage thing, partially for religious reasons. It's not a wonderful thing about him, but the coming around is the important part.

Could it all be a cynical ploy? Maybe. It is no sure shot, though. It's incredibly risky, and cynical ploys aren't normally this dangerous.

271 Sionainn  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:14:53pm

re: #226 Daniel Ballard

Oh crap. Charles or any monitor--- please delete this angry post. I just got horrible family news and it's just blown out my calm way into anger. My father in law has been diagnosed with bone cancer. I got the news minutes ago.

(((Daniel))), I'm so sorry to hear that.

272 dragonfire1981  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:15:08pm

re: #268 Charles Johnson

Wow, that Fox News comment thread is headed for some kind of record.

It's the ultimate firehose of hate.

I know it's just pouring in so fast there's no way to contain it or even comprehend it. I don't think I've ever see a comments page blow up so fast.

273 Obdicut  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:15:08pm

re: #269 Gus

Hah it's at 4:20.

274 Gus  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:15:32pm

re: #273 Obdicut

Hah it's at 4:20.

Far out man!

275 dragonfire1981  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:15:41pm

re: #273 Obdicut

Hah it's at 4:20.

I was going go on TV but I was high...

276 HappyWarrior  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:15:54pm

re: #269 Gus

[Embedded content]

This will be good. Please Mitt. Tell the American people how you don't value rights for gay people but think corporations can do whatever the hell they want

277 Gus  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:18:01pm

re: #276 HappyWarrior

This will be good. Please Mitt. Tell the American people how you don't value rights for gay people but think corporations can do whatever the hell they want

Just a lot of BS talk already.

[Link: www.koco.com...]

278 Interesting Times  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:18:08pm

re: #276 HappyWarrior

This will be good. Please Mitt. Tell the American people how you don't value rights for gay people but think corporations can do whatever the hell they want

279 HappyWarrior  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:20:02pm

re: #277 Gus

Just a lot of BS talk already.

[Link: www.koco.com...]

He's good at that because it's the only thing he knows.

280 Sionainn  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:20:37pm

re: #263 Lawrence Schmerel

He hasn't learned anything new about the issue. Nothing about the issue has changed . . . except for public support for it.

Did you read anything Obama actually said or are you just making this stuff up?

281 Sionainn  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:21:42pm

re: #267 jamesfirecat

Once again your statement relies on being able to reed Barack's mind, and doesn't he directly say in his speech that he's spent a lot of time talking to people affected by this issue, IE learning new things?

Yes. This.

282 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:21:48pm

re: #263 Lawrence Schmerel

He hasn't learned anything new about the issue. Nothing about the issue has changed . . . except for public support for it.

Public support decreased from the last year.

283 S'latch  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:21:51pm

re: #267 jamesfirecat

I am assuming that Barack Obama is a serious person who makes decisions based on facts, logic, and his sense of morality. (And it would not take him longer than four years to make such decisions). I am assuming that he does not make important decisions based on emotional appeals. I am assuming that he has spoken to same-sex couples about the issue for years, probably since his first entry into national politics if not before. And, also, there is nothing new about the issue, except for public support for it.

284 Eventual Carrion  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:22:06pm

re: #244 Targetpractice

You have to remember that those slamming the "war on religion" button are the ones who think that there is no separation of church and state, that the Founders intended this to be a Christian nation, and that any laws that go against Christian belief are a violation of the rights of all Americans.

Funny, that 's how the Taliban sees their government too.

285 SpaceJesus  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:23:54pm

this is not a photoshop. its what the site looked like 20 minutes ago

Image: au8ly1.jpg

286 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:24:49pm

re: #283 Lawrence Schmerel

I am assuming that Barack Obama is a serious person who makes decisions based on facts, logic, and his sense of morality. (And it would not take him longer than four years to make such decisions). I am assuming that he does not make important decisions based on emotional appeals. I am assuming that he has spoken to same-sex couples about the issue for years, probably since his first entry into national politics if not before. And, also, there is nothing new about the issue, except for public support for it.

I think his old stance has been a political consideration - at least in part. (I'm not 100% sure of that, but consider it most likely.) If so, his dropping of the same position is a "return to normal".

287 jamesfirecat  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:25:33pm

re: #283 Lawrence Schmerel

I am assuming that Barack Obama is a serious person who makes decisions based on facts, logic, and his sense of morality. (And it would not take him longer than four years to make such decisions). I am assuming that he does not make important decisions based on emotional appeals. I am assuming that he has spoken to same-sex couples about the issue for years, probably since his first entry into national politics if not before. And, also, there is nothing new about the issue, except for public support for it.

You assume that as soon as he speaks to those people their words instantly have their full and total effect upon him rather than recquiring time to be thought over.

Though thank you for at least laying out your thought process rather than just declaring what you believe as fact.

288 HappyWarrior  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:26:09pm

re: #285 SpaceJesus

this is not a photoshop. its what the site looked like 20 minutes ago

Image: au8ly1.jpg

I saw. Typical of them. These are the same ghouls who thought Richard and Mildred Loving were criminals and demonic for marrying outside their race.

289 S'latch  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:26:36pm

re: #280 Sionainn

Did you read anything Obama actually said or are you just making this stuff up?

Yes. I read what he said. " . . . over the course of several years as I have talked to . . . "

Barack Obama has believed for a long time that same-sex couples should be able to marry.

290 Obdicut  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:30:48pm

re: #289 Lawrence Schmerel

Well, it may or may not be true. It's impossible to tell, since it's an internal thought. But I don't think approval rates can explain it, given that they really haven't improved over last year, and may in fact have declined.

291 Gus  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:32:30pm

Cookie cutter response from Romney.

292 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:32:33pm

Mitt is in OKC right now..You guys know that Oklahoma is pretty much hard core right wing right? I live on an Island of blue in Norman by the University.
Over the last year I have really come to respect this state and the people..
We disagree on policies and yesterday I was standing in line at the 7-11 and saw a headline about a new law about abortion rights.. I was disgusted.
But talking to folks I see progress in Oklahoma..I'll be leaving here this year..
I hold hope...
Oklahoma..What a wonderful place.. Rich with Hstory

293 simoom  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:32:37pm

re: #191 goddamnedfrank

Again, NC Amendment 1 passed in a 61 to 39 percent vote. Nothing Obama could have possibly said would have changed that. I think he stalled and came out with this too late, but LCR are high if they think it would have made a bit of difference.

And then there's the minor detail that he already had come out publicly against NC Amendment 1.

[Link: www.politico.com...]

The AP reported Tuesday that the measure, called Amendment 1, passed by North Carolina voters. ... The Obama campaign first announced their opposition to the measure in March.

294 Lidane  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:33:42pm

re: #289 Lawrence Schmerel

Yes. I read what he said. " . . . over the course of several years as I have talked to . . . "

Barack Obama has believed for a long time that same-sex couples should be able to marry.

Not necessarily. You can also parse that statement to mean that he opposed gay marriage and instead supported civil unions, and it took time, and conversations with gay friends and co-workers, and with his family to bring him around.

295 HappyWarrior  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:36:21pm

re: #291 Gus

Cookie cutter response from Romney.

What exactly did he say? It's probably not going to please the wingnuts which probably has them wishing they had chosen Santorum even more.

296 Gus  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:37:03pm

re: #295 HappyWarrior

What exactly did he say? It's probably not going to please the wingnuts which probably has them wishing they had chosen Santorum even more.

Basically that he has the same view as he had when he was governor. Marriage is between a man and a woman...

297 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:37:33pm

re: #296 Gus

Basically that he has the same view as he had when he was governor. Marriage is between a man and a woman...

and another woman, and another, etc...

298 Talking Point Detective  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:38:20pm

re: #263 Lawrence Schmerel

He hasn't learned anything new about the issue. Nothing about the issue has changed . . . except for public support for it.

I actually agree with this. I find his explanation to be disingenuous. I never believed that his personal beliefs would not be in support same sex marriage - but I believed instead that he fashioned his stance out of political expediency.

No way to prove it one way or the other - but I never bought it.

I'm glad he came out with this statement, but I found his explanation to be phoney.

299 EdDantes  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:38:27pm

re: #292 HoosierHoops

I used to live in OKC and Altus and Mangum. All my relatives (including my parents) under the the age of 100 were born there. They are all fine people except for a crazy older cousin who makes life miserable for everyone.

300 Gus  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:39:11pm
301 S'latch  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:39:21pm

re: #294 Lidane

A civil union is just another way of saying marriage, except it leaves out the religious aspect. Anyone who says that same-sex couples should be able to join in a civil union is saying, indirectly, they same-sex couples should be able to marry.

302 HappyWarrior  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:41:20pm

[Link: www.theonion.com...]
Chuckle. Ill be 96 that year.

303 Interesting Times  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:42:10pm
304 S'latch  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:42:15pm

re: #298 Talking Point Detective

Of course. Barack Obama is not confused about what he believes. It hasn't taken him longer than four years to figure this issue out.

305 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:42:20pm

re: #297 Expand Your Ground

and another woman, and another, etc...

That's an interesting thing. Certainly, any polygamists are automatically excommunicated nowadays. But the doctrine of permissibility of polygamy never actually went away, as far as I can tell it may be kept for the afterlife.

306 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:42:23pm

re: #301 Lawrence Schmerel

A civil union is just another way of saying marriage, except it leaves out the religious aspect. Anyone who says that they believe same-sex couples should be able to join in a civil union is saying, indirectly, they they believe same-sex couples should be able to marry.

Some of the brouhaha over this is that people are still not able to distinguish between the sacrament of marriage and the civil institution of marriage.

They used to be identical, but those who do not see the distinction have their heads stuck in the past (or their posterior)

Heck, the Catholic Church didn't even use to recognize divorce. According to them, my grandmother (who divorced and remarried in the 1920's) was a whore and my step-granddad a whoremonger.

To me they were grandma and grandpa...

307 Talking Point Detective  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:44:18pm

re: #304 Lawrence Schmerel

Of course. Barack Obama is not confused about what he believes. It hasn't taken him longer than four years to figure this issue out.

I do have one caveat. He tends to naturally gravitate towards the middle road. I suppose it's possible that he personally supported the right of people to marry someone of the same gender, but didn't think that the opinions of those who disagreed should simply be discarded.

That's a reach, though. My strong suspicion is that his stance was pure political expediency - and I found his explanation to be weak and not particularly plausible.

308 Lidane  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:47:30pm

re: #301 Lawrence Schmerel

A civil union is just another way of saying marriage, except it leaves out the religious aspect.

Nope. Wrong.

Civil unions were nothing more than "separate but equal" versions of marriage. They have never come close to offering all of the same legal benefits of marriage.

309 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:47:55pm

re: #299 EdDantes

I used to live in OKC and Altus and Mangum. All my relatives (including my parents) under the the age of 100 were born there. They are all fine people except for a crazy older cousin who makes life miserable for everyone.

I have come to love Oklahoma. Great folks.
When I get moved to another city for my job I always join a lodge..The Eagles, Moose whatever..I have met hundreds of people here.. And a very special Lady...

310 Talking Point Detective  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:48:03pm

re: #282 May Day! May Day!

Public support decreased from the last year.

What do you think about the timing of this announcement of a change in stance? Don't you think that his hand was pretty much forced by recent developments? The breakdown of public support shows that coming out in favor of same sex marriage has more political viability - if you believe the polls that show fairly strong support among independents.

311 sagehen  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:48:14pm

re: #294 Lidane

Not necessarily. You can also parse that statement to mean that he opposed gay marriage and instead supported civil unions, and it took time, and conversations with gay friends and co-workers, and with his family to bring him around.

Didn't DC just pass marriage equality last year or the year before?

Imagine if one of Sasha or Malia's classmates came to school after spring break totally overjoyed that her moms were finally able to get married and she was the flower girl, and they let her choose what kind of cake, all their cousins were there and they got to use the same ring that grandpa gave grandma when he had 48 hours before shipping out to Vietnam and...

Kids do have a surprising amount of influence over their parents' political views.

And it doesn't hurt that Clooney's hosting a $12 million dinner with people who've told the campaign that marriage equality is the singular issue most important to them. I wonder how big a check David Geffen is cutting this afternoon.

312 Killgore Trout  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:49:21pm

re: #307 Talking Point Detective

My strong suspicion is that his stance was pure political expediency - and I found his explanation to be weak and not particularly plausible.

You're probably right. Also today's statement was also calculated. Although there's no huge gain to be made by changing his position it was probably run through focus groups and strategists calculated carefully what would happen if he came out in favor of gay marriage. Biden's statement last week was probably a trial balloon to see how it would go over. All this stuff is pretty carefully orchestrated.
I'm anxiously await his change of heart on legalizing pot.

313 Gus  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:49:44pm

re: #265 gwangung

They don't know many black people, do they?

Actually. If it's who I think it is she does know a lot of black people. As to the validity of that meme that's another question.

314 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:50:02pm

re: #310 Talking Point Detective

What do you think about the timing of this announcement of a change in stance? Don't you think that his hand was pretty much forced by recent developments? The breakdown of public support shows that coming out in favor of same sex marriage has more political viability - if you believe the polls that show fairly strong support among independents.

I don't think he was forced or would be worse off saying nothing. I think he was itching to come out with this, and the time was right.

315 HappyWarrior  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:50:17pm

re: #311 sagehen

Didn't DC just pass marriage equality last year or the year before?

Imagine if one of Sasha or Malia's classmates came to school after spring break totally overjoyed that her moms were finally able to get married and she was the flower girl, and they let her choose what kind of cake, all their cousins were there and they got to use the same ring that grandpa gave grandma when he had 48 hours before shipping out to Vietnam and...

Kids do have a surprising amount of influence over their parents' political views.

And it doesn't hurt that Clooney's hosting a $12 million dinner with people who've told the campaign that marriage equality is the singular issue most important to them. I wonder how big a check David Geffen is cutting this afternoon.

Yeah, DC passed it. My cousin got married not long after the fact.

316 ProMayaLiberal  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:50:31pm

re: #311 sagehen

I have to say, good on Michelle Obama and the little girls.

317 PhillyPretzel  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:51:25pm

re: #312 Killgore Trout

Legalizing pot is for another campaign./

318 HappyWarrior  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:51:39pm

re: #312 Killgore Trout

You're probably right. Also today's statement was also calculated. Although there's no huge gain to be made by changing his position it was probably run through focus groups and strategists calculated carefully what would happen if he came out in favor of gay marriage. Biden's statement last week was probably a trial balloon to see how it would go over. All this stuff is pretty carefully orchestrated.
I'm anxiously await his change of heart on legalizing pot.

Maybe next May, he always saves his best for May. E.G this and getting OBL.

319 Lidane  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:51:45pm
320 Talking Point Detective  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:52:15pm

re: #312 Killgore Trout

I'm anxiously await his change of heart on legalizing pot.

My guess is that's a bridge too far.

I don't think it's quite as politically cynical as you think there. They've done too many things that don't make sense from that angle. There's more at play - and it is very difficult to judge from the outside. It would be fascinating, however, to be a fly in the wall when they have strategy discussions.

321 Talking Point Detective  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:52:39pm

re: #314 May Day! May Day!

I don't think he was forced or would be worse off saying nothing. I think he was itching to come out with this, and the time was right.

Yeah - that makes sense also.

322 labman57  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:54:16pm

The reason why some people are so opposed to gay marriage -- and all of the rights and benefits that come with a marriage certificate -- is because the thought of homosexuals expressing physical affection for one another totally repulses them, and the notion that such a relationship could be officially sanctioned through marriage pours salt into the wound of their prejudice.

The argument that gays should be satisfied with civil unions because it provides most of the same protections as marriage is akin to suggesting that blacks shouldn't care whether they are required to sit in the back of the bus, since all of the passengers will arrive at the same destination.

The argument that marriage is intended by God for couples that can and will procreate is equally absurd, for then the law should restrict couples from marrying if one or both members are infertile, or are beyond child-bearing age, or if they have refused to contractually agree to procreate.

Those people who are so adamant that gays be denied the right to marry are the same types of people who would have expressed outrage in the 1950s and 1960s when the validity of interracial marriage was being debated. Hatred toward gays is simply their "flavor of the month".

323 S'latch  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:54:47pm

re: #308 Lidane

Civil unions were nothing more than "separate but equal" versions of marriage. . . .

This is a subject of debate. But, regardless of the current status, the definition of civil union can be expanded to offer the same legal benefits of marriage.

Furthermore, I would expect that the type of civil union Barack Obama favored would have had all the same legal benefits of marriage.

324 Talking Point Detective  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:55:03pm

re: #312 Killgore Trout

You're probably right. Also today's statement was also calculated. Although there's no huge gain to be made by changing his position it was probably run through focus groups and strategists calculated carefully what would happen if he came out in favor of gay marriage. Biden's statement last week was probably a trial balloon to see how it would go over. All this stuff is pretty carefully orchestrated.
I'm anxiously await his change of heart on legalizing pot.

At best - the most that might be hoped for would be decriminalization as opposed to legalization; but even that seems extremely unlikely.

Who knows, though: In a second term, he may show his true African/Muzlum/Communist/Manchurian Candidate nature.

325 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:55:41pm

re: #323 Lawrence Schmerel

This is a subject of debate. But, regardless of the current status, the definition of civil union can be expanded to offer the same legal benefits of marriage.

Then call it marriage. Simple.

326 S'latch  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:56:18pm

re: #325 May Day! May Day!

I did. Someone objected.

327 garhighway  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:56:19pm

re: #301 Lawrence Schmerel

A civil union is just another way of saying marriage, except it leaves out the religious aspect. Anyone who says that same-sex couples should be able to join in a civil union is saying, indirectly, they same-sex couples should be able to marry.

Wrong. Read the Prop 8 opinion to get a sense of why those concepts are dissimilar.

328 celticdragon  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:56:37pm

Hey lizards.

Not a good day here in NC, although the Presidents announcement is something we have needed for a long time.

To be honest, I spent part of the day gun shopping here for a new of used Ruger in .40 S&W. The volume is turned up real frakking high right now, and the annaouncement from the President actually turned it up even more, although he did not intend that. I and my wife have both had serious stalking and harassment issue in the past because I am a trans woman, and right now, I do not feel safe.

Not one damned bit.

So every time someone like Rod Dreher or Maggie Gallagher whines about how Christians are being intimidated or silenced...I am buying a handgun because people on their side have literally threatened my life. I can't get away if someone really wants to use their fists on me. My wife has cerebral palsey, so it isn't like she can run away either. I cannot gamble my safety and that of my wife and son on whether the gay and trans bashers are willing to let us go.

329 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:57:36pm

re: #326 Lawrence Schmerel

I did. Someone objected.

Yes, lots of people object to it but can't explain the opposition beyond "that's immoral".

330 Gus  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:57:43pm

Breaking! The King of Puritopia has just given his approval:

331 Talking Point Detective  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:58:24pm

re: #325 May Day! May Day!

Then call it marriage. Simple.

In point of fact, it is simply discrimination to say that some people can't marry.

But there are legit questions: Should gays really be embracing the institution of marriage anyway? Does it make sense to get those important rights that seem more accessible rather then hold them hostage to the more philosophical issues.

I know, clearly, what I think is morally appropriate - but in the end I'm fairly agnostic.

332 Lidane  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:58:48pm

re: #323 Lawrence Schmerel

This is a subject of debate.

No it isn't. Civil unions were designed to placate LGBT people by offering a "separate but equal" version of marriage, the idea being that if LGBT folks could have civil partnerships they'd STFU about getting married and they wouldn't notice that straight people would still have more legal rights and benefits.

333 Mattand  Wed, May 9, 2012 1:59:49pm

re: #328 celticdragon

Be safe.

This is not meant as a flip response, but is moving a possibility in any shape or form?

334 simoom  Wed, May 9, 2012 2:03:22pm

re: #330 Gus

Breaking! The King of Puritopia has just given his approval:

[Embedded content]

OK, that truly is shocking.

335 S'latch  Wed, May 9, 2012 2:04:15pm

re: #332 Lidane

I suggest that the type of civil union Barack Obama said he favored would have had all the same legal benefits of marriage.

I have to leave the board now, but I will leave pondering what legal rights and benefits of marriage Barack Obama would have denied same-sex couples in his concept of a civil union. I would like to see that list.

336 Talking Point Detective  Wed, May 9, 2012 2:04:35pm

re: #330 Gus

Breaking! The King of Puritopia has just given his approval:

[Embedded content]

Puritopia?

337 celticdragon  Wed, May 9, 2012 2:05:03pm

re: #333 mattand

Be safe.

This is not meant as a flip response, but is moving a possibility in any shape or form?

Not really. My wife is midway through her degree program right now, and our son has resources he needs as an autistic student. Greensboro is a (mostly) safe enclave. Other parts of the state? Not so much.

338 Lidane  Wed, May 9, 2012 2:06:01pm

re: #335 Lawrence Schmerel

I suggest that the type of civil union Barack Obama said he favored would have had all the same legal benefits of marriage.

So why not just call it marriage and be done with it?

That's the point. If you're going to offer all the same legal rights and benefits to LGBT couples, just call it marriage. Don't wuss out and call them civil unions. Just give the same legal rights and benefits across the board and call it all the same thing -- marriage. Period.

339 Gus  Wed, May 9, 2012 2:07:00pm

re: #336 Talking Point Detective

Puritopia?

That's where puritopians live. ;)

340 Talking Point Detective  Wed, May 9, 2012 2:14:45pm

re: #339 Gus

That's where puritopians live. ;)

Thanks. I think it's debatable whether that fits Greenwald in general - but certainly it doesn't seem to fit that tweet (although I guess "regardless of what motivated it could be a back-handed compliment).

341 Origuy  Wed, May 9, 2012 2:15:25pm
342 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 9, 2012 3:01:33pm

re: #93 funky chicken

Why? Sasha and Malia are a bit young to be considering marriage at this time, aren't they?

Malia will be turning fourteen this year.

The crap that is going to be said about her, sexually and otherwise, during her father's second term, is going to make me very very angry.

343 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 9, 2012 3:09:03pm

re: #157 iossarian

Standard Christian thinking.

The president, on talking to his wife about this decision:

And that is that, in the end the values that I care most deeply about and she cares most deeply about is how we treat other people and, you know, I, you know, we are both practicing Christians and obviously this position may be considered to put us at odds with the views of others but, you know, when we think about our faith, the thing at root that we think about is, not only Christ sacrificing himself on our behalf, but it's also the Golden Rule, you know, treat others the way you would want to be treated. And I think that's what we try to impart to our kids and that's what motivates me as president and I figure the most consistent I can be in being true to those precepts, the better I'll be as a as a dad and a husband and, hopefully, the better I'll be as president.

344 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 9, 2012 3:09:48pm

re: #170 Daniel Ballard

""but LGBT Americans are right to be angry that this calculated announcement comes too late to be of any use to the people of North Carolina, or any of the other states that have addressed this issue on his watch. This administration has manipulated LGBT families for political gain as much as anybody, and after his campaign’s ridiculous contortions to deny support for marriage equality this week he does not deserve praise for an announcement that comes a day late and a dollar short.”"

I say they have a valid point there.

Would Obama doing this a week ago have saved North Carolina? I doubt it.

345 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 9, 2012 3:11:16pm

re: #196 darthstar

[Embedded content]

Now, if he'd said ROMNEY had married his dog, I'd be pleased, because you really have to let your spouse sit in the car.

346 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 9, 2012 3:18:42pm

re: #301 Lawrence Schmerel

A civil union is just another way of saying marriage, except it leaves out the religious aspect. Anyone who says that same-sex couples should be able to join in a civil union is saying, indirectly, they same-sex couples should be able to marry.

No. A civil union does not have, for example, the federal benefits accorded to marriage.

347 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 9, 2012 3:26:00pm

re: #311 sagehen

Didn't DC just pass marriage equality last year or the year before?

Imagine if one of Sasha or Malia's classmates came to school after spring break totally overjoyed that her moms were finally able to get married and she was the flower girl, and they let her choose what kind of cake, all their cousins were there and they got to use the same ring that grandpa gave grandma when he had 48 hours before shipping out to Vietnam and...

Kids do have a surprising amount of influence over their parents' political views.

And it doesn't hurt that Clooney's hosting a $12 million dinner with people who've told the campaign that marriage equality is the singular issue most important to them. I wonder how big a check David Geffen is cutting this afternoon.

The young people--they're never gonna understand what this was all about.

A few years ago, the high school I was teaching at had a fall retreat for the freshmen. I listened as one girl told her new friends, at length, about how her uncle and his boyfriend were getting married, and she was going to be in the wedding party, and her mom was going to let her have professional makeup and wear high heels, and she was going to get to do one of the Gospel readings...

They were jealous about the makeup.

One of the boys in my junior class, that same year, mentioned in passing that his uncle and the uncle's beau were also getting married. The day after Prop 8 went through, he came into class and told everyone that his uncle had had a hunch, and the couple had gone to City Hall, just the two of them, the day before the election.

"It's cool," he said. "They're married now, but we're just going to have the church ceremony and the reception and stuff when we planned."

This was a fairly conservative Catholic high school.

It's all over but the shouting. Unfortunately, there is going to be a HELL of a lot of shouting.

348 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, May 9, 2012 3:28:26pm

re: #331 Talking Point Detective

In point of fact, it is simply discrimination to say that some people can't marry.

But there are legit questions: Should gays really be embracing the institution of marriage anyway? Does it make sense to get those important rights that seem more accessible rather then hold them hostage to the more philosophical issues.

I know, clearly, what I think is morally appropriate - but in the end I'm fairly agnostic.

I'd like for gay people to be able to marry if they like. Then, folks can argue whether they should be embracing the insitution till the cows come home, without people getting screwed over by other people's political philosophies.

349 Talking Point Detective  Wed, May 9, 2012 3:45:19pm

re: #348 SanFranciscoZionist

I'd like for gay people to be able to marry if they like. Then, folks can argue whether they should be embracing the insitution till the cows come home, without people getting screwed over by other people's political philosophies.

Sure. That's what I'd like also. But it is a bit hard for me to go to the mat for an institution that is pretty problematic in many ways: For example, as a single person, I think it's an institution that perpetuates other forms of discrimination. It's not inherently discriminatory for someone to get married, but as an institution, it is linked to other forms of discrimination.

And again, I think that the question of whether or not it makes sense to be strategic about acquiring very important, and more attainable goals (same sex unions that would provide hospital visitation rights, among others), is a valid and with no easy answers. It isn't like the gay community is united on these issues - there is a diversity of opinions.

But yes - the bottom line is that not allowing same sex marriage is discriminatory. Denying people that right is discrimination. My moral instinct is that same sex marriage should, undoubtedly, be a right equally extended to everyone. In the real world context, however, I move a bit into agnosticism w/r/t a choice between same sex marriage and civil unions as a first order of priority.

350 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, May 9, 2012 3:51:24pm

re: #344 SanFranciscoZionist

Would Obama doing this a week ago have saved North Carolina? I doubt it.

Maybe they can wait until President Romney announces his support for marriage equality. Some people are never satisfied.

351 Sinistershade  Wed, May 9, 2012 4:07:03pm

re: #346 SanFranciscoZionist

No. A civil union does not have, for example, the federal benefits accorded to marriage.

You conceivably could develop a civil union with all the legal rights as marriage (with changes to federal law, etc.), but you couldn't give it the cultural weight of marriage. The word itself carries centuries of meaning. Separate is never equal.


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