Romney Pseudo-Apologizes for Bullying Incident He ‘Doesn’t Remember’

The only thing he remembers is that it wasn’t gay-bashing
Politics • Views: 31,431

And now, the inevitable non-apologetic apology.

“Back in high school I did some dumb things and if anybody was hurt by that or offended by that I apologize,” Romney told FOX radio host Brian Kilmeade Thursday. “If I did stupid things, I’m afraid I’ve got to say sorry for it.”

Romney, 65, noted he graduated from high school nearly five decades ago, and said, “I’m quite a different guy now.” He admitted “I participated in a lot of hijinks and pranks in high school and some of them might have gone too far, and I apologize.”

“I certainly don’t believe that I thought the fellow was homosexual,” Romney told Kilmeade. “That was the furthest thing from our minds back in the 1960s.” …

Romney spokeswoman Andrea Saul told the Post that Romney had no recollection of the incidents in question, which she said “seem exaggerated,” and added that “Anyone who knows Mitt Romney knows that he doesn’t have a mean-spirited bone in his body.”

That’s odd. He has “no recollection” of the incident, but at the same time can state with certainty that it had nothing to do with gay-bashing? How does that work?

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357 comments
1 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:08:33am

Make note of it, don't dwell on it. Concentrate on how he will have to bow and scrape to all the conservative ideologues in his party in order to prove his creds in order to get anything at all done.

Any attempt at compromise on his part will be seen as weakness.

2 Four More Tears  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:08:41am

This raises one very important question... where does Mitt Romney keep all of those mean-spirited bones???

3 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:08:43am

Yeah right. Like I said in the last thread, he's nothing but a bully and a coward who should not be allowed anywhere near the oval office.

4 abolitionist  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:10:05am

How does that work? When I was 18, I didn't know what a blow job was. No one would tell me.

5 Kragar  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:10:35am

"I totally never did it, but I'm sorry if I did, but I didn't do it because he was gay."

6 Kragar  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:11:38am
“I certainly don’t believe that I thought the fellow was homosexual,” Romney told Kilmeade. “That was the furthest thing from our minds back in the 1960s.” …

I swear to God, we thought he was Jewish!
///

7 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:14:23am

"C'mon" it was way back when it was ok to show While Male Christian Dominance. It was EXPECTED. I was just doing what I was suppossed to."

/gah

8 Simply Sarah  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:14:42am

It really doesn't reflect well on Mitt if all his classmates and friends seem to vividly remember and regret this attack (As well as other things he may have done), but he just can't seem to recall it even with their added memories. What that means to me is that while they deep down knew it was wrong even at the time, Mitt wasn't bothered in the least. Not then and not now.

9 Charles Johnson  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:15:48am

The bottom line: Romney's anti-gay bullying in high school will only increase his popularity with the right wing.

10 Gus  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:16:59am

Romney attacked a young man for his identity. Whether it was based on long hair or sexual orientation. Many will blow it off as youthful indiscretion. Now imagine had he attacked a young man for any other form of identity such as race, religion, etc. Because in the end these kinds of attacks are really no different from one another.

11 Simply Sarah  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:17:06am

re: #9 Charles Johnson

The bottom line: Romney's anti-gay bullying in high school will only increase his popularity with the right wing.

Can we even call it the right wing anymore? It's so extreme at this point that I'm not sure it's even still in the building.

12 HappyWarrior  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:17:28am

What a load of shit. He was a bullying jerk then as he is now. Can't even own up to it.

13 Kragar  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:17:36am

re: #9 Charles Johnson

The bottom line: Romney's anti-gay bullying in high school will only increase his popularity with the right wing.

Bryan Fischer shed a single tear of pride upon hearing the original story.

14 allegro  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:18:23am

If Mitt doesn't have a "mean bone in his body" I would hate like hell to meet a man who does. This is the guy who enjoys firing people who are in service to him. He's the guy who bankrupted companies to deliberately trash pensions people had worked their whole lives for.

Mean doesn't come close to how I would describe him.

15 jamesfirecat  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:18:26am

"That’s odd. He has “no recollection” of the incident, but at the same time can state with certainty that it had nothing to do with gay-bashing? How does that work?"

It probably works a lot like the Doctor in 2004 who claimed to be able to remember exactly how insignificant and not worthy of remembering/taking note of one of John Kerry's wounds was.

16 Gus  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:19:06am

re: #9 Charles Johnson

The bottom line: Romney's anti-gay bullying in high school will only increase his popularity with the right wing.

Have you seen this?

Youtube Video
17 Gus  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:19:18am

Classy.

18 Simply Sarah  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:20:07am

re: #10 Gus

Romney attacked a young man for his identity. Whether it was based on long hair or sexual orientation. Many will blow it off as youthful indiscretion. Now imagine had he attacked a young man for any other form of identity such as race, religion, etc. Because in the end these kinds of attacks are really no different from one another.

Well, as I said in the last thread, I'm actually fairly willing to give someone a second chance if I feel they've changed (Not forgive them, though, since unless I was personally wronged I'm in no place to give it). Maybe it was being raised Catholic. The key here, though, is they need to have changed, accepted the wrongs of their past, and have done what they can to help set things right. Mitt seems to see this as little more than a nuisance and that I will not abide.

19 Achilles Tang  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:20:15am
“That was the furthest thing from our minds back in the 1960s.” …

Really? He lived a most rarefied bubble if that is the case; but we know that, don't we?//

21 Mattand  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:20:50am

What's going to be entertaining is all of the right wingers who called Obama a dog eater will now be OUTRAGED that people are bringing up stories of Mitt's behavior as a youth.

22 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:21:44am

re: #16 Gus

Have you seen this?

[Embedded content]

That needs to go viral!

23 HappyWarrior  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:21:47am

re: #21 mattand

What's going to be entertaining is all of the right wingers who called Obama a dog eater will now be OUTRAGED that people are bringing up stories of Mitt's behavior as a youth.

You know it but they will act like they never attacked Obama over the dog eating.

24 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:23:01am

re: #16 Gus

Have you seen this?

[Embedded content]

Especially as even the Sean Hannity types have been wearing Pink in support of breast cancer --MLB used Pink bats--etc . . .

Shows major issues with gender-identity IMHO.

25 _RememberTonyC  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:23:39am

I'm one of the few people in this forum who doesn't pound Romney on a regular basis, but this incident is really troubling to me, even though it happened many years ago. Maybe it's the willingness to lead a mob against a kid who was isolated. Maybe it's because I knew a kid in high school who was bullied and tormented and ultimately killed himself at a very early age. It just leaves a very bad taste in my mouth. I was never bullied and always was a member of sports teams so I can't relate to the isolation of a kid who was different. But I also can't relate to someone who takes it upon himself to be judge, jury, and executioner of someone who did nothing wrong.

26 dragonath  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:23:59am

You know, I would be willing to let this go, but this is such a strangely evasive answer. It's not a denial or an acknowledgement. It's the classic Romney non-answer response.

27 Randall Gross  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:24:09am

Apologies that come with "if" aren't apologies, and by making the people needing the apology the actors Mitt removes himself from responsibility by changing the focus. It's typical of most right wing reactions to bullying, the problem isn't the sadistic bigoted assaults and taunts, the problem is the people getting offended. Being offended by wingnut actions by right wing psychotic mental shorthand is wrong by definition. I mean how dare you be offended -- you must be overly sensitive or politically correct or something.

28 HappyWarrior  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:25:00am

re: #27 Randall Gross

Apologies that come with "if" aren't apologies, and by making the people needing the apology the actors Mitt removes himself from responsibility by changing the focus. It's typical of most right wing reactions to bullying, the problem isn't the sadistic bigoted assaults and taunts, the problem is the people getting offended. Being offended by wingnut actions by right wing psychotic mental shorthand is wrong by definition. I mean how dare you be offended -- you must be overly sensitive or politically correct or something.

Yes, this.

29 jamesfirecat  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:25:17am

re: #24 ggt

Especially as even the Sean Hannity types have been wearing Pink in support of breast cancer --MLB used Pink bats--etc . . .

Shows major issues with gender-identity IMHO.

Hey Pink used to be a masculine color.


[Link: www.cracked.com...]

30 abolitionist  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:26:57am

re: #29 jamesfirecat

Hey Pink used to be a masculine color.

[Link: www.cracked.com...]

Pinky Lee could dance just fine, but had bad timing.

31 Simply Sarah  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:27:45am

re: #29 jamesfirecat

Hey Pink used to be a masculine color.

[Link: www.cracked.com...]

Yes, I've always found the fact that blue used to be for girls and pink for boys to be highly amusing when people start treating the colours as if there's some essential gender value assigned to them, rather than it being pretty much purely cultural.

32 SidewaysQuark  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:29:49am

I'm no fan of the current state of "conservatism", but going back to an incident in Romney's high school days? Come on, talk about water under the bridge. (I sure as hell wouldn't want some of my youthful indiscretions brought up in a job interview, today....)

33 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:30:03am

re: #6 Kragar

I swear to God, we thought he was Jewish!
///

"It was a more innocent time...we had been protected from knowing what homosexuals were, so we would beat and humiliate people because of their haircuts. Then we'd go to the malt shop."

34 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:30:26am

re: #7 ggt

"C'mon" it was way back when it was ok to show While Male Christian Dominance. It was EXPECTED. I was just doing what I was suppossed to."

/gah

Thing is, I expect that's true. He was just doing what he was supposed to.

35 makeitstop  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:30:50am

This story brings back a flood of memories.

This type of attack was pretty common in my high school where members of the football team would call a 'scissor party' and pull someone they considered a 'hippie' into the boys' room, hold him down and cut chunks of his hair off.

I walked in on one of these 'scissor parties' one day, pulled a couple of jocks of a smaller kid and got a three-day suspension for my trouble. I also ended up having to fight a few members of the football team that year.

Romney, as usual, is trying to deflect any negative criticism by offering up an empty 'apology,' pretty much exactly the way those jocks in my high school did after a kid's parents threatened the school district with a lawsuit.

Gutless. He does not have the moral fiber or sense of fairness that is absolutely required in a president.

36 philosophus invidius  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:30:56am

Long hair ! That's just wrong!

37 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:31:16am

re: #34 SanFranciscoZionist

Thing is, I expect that's true. He was just doing what he was supposed to.

Since he didn't think for himself back then . . .

Have to wonder

38 HappyWarrior  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:32:07am

re: #36 philosophus invidius

Long hair ! That's just wrong!

Clearly gay.//*
* Not that there's anything wrong wth that.

39 SpaceJesus  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:32:13am

he doesnt have a mean-spirited circuit in his chassis

40 Gus  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:32:33am

re: #36 philosophus invidius

Long hair ! That's just wrong!

Damn longhairs.

41 wrenchwench  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:32:51am

re: #32 SidewaysQuark

I'm no fan of the current state of "conservatism", but going back to an incident in Romney's high school days? Come on, talk about water under the bridge. (I sure as hell wouldn't want some of my youthful indiscretions brought up in a job interview, today...)

Is his reaction to it today relevant?

42 nines09  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:32:56am

re: #5 Kragar

"I totally never did it, but I'm sorry if I did, but I didn't do it because he was gay."

"I did it if I did do it because it made him look gay. I think. Wait. I don't think. Did I think? Wow. Was that a thought?"

43 dragonath  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:33:32am

What troubles me is that there are really no ancedotes or stories about Romney doing something genuinely decent out there, and if there are, I haven't heard them. He is running an exceptionally cold campaign compared to Obama.

44 elizajane  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:33:35am

Even as somebody who abhors all anti-gay teasing of any sort, I was completely ready to give Romney a pass on something he did when he was 18, because who among us never did anything stupid or hurtful in their entire life? Really. I was going to throw this into the bin with Obama's composite girlfriend and Elizabeth Warren's heritage as Things from the Past upon which we should not now judge people.

But I'd have a lot more respect for Romney if he had said, "This was a terrible, shameful thing to do and I regret it deeply" or even "I don't remember it, but that kind of action against a person perceived as different is always terrible and shameful." Not, "wow, well, but I never thought he was gay."

Mitt Romney. Every day, pushing the definition of "Spineless" a little farther.

45 Simply Sarah  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:34:08am

Hmm, I'm finding this to be one of those issues where the more I think about it, the more it bothers me and the more upset about it I become. This normally isn't a good sign for where I'll finally end up on the topic. Seriously, I cannot believe that asshole Romney is basically dismissing this out of hand. It's enough to make me almost cry.

46 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:34:56am

re: #44 elizajane

"he was 16"

18

No pass.

47 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:35:55am

re: #24 ggt

Especially as even the Sean Hannity types have been wearing Pink in support of breast cancer --MLB used Pink bats--etc . . .

Shows major issues with gender-identity IMHO.

God creatively gave us different bodies to show our gender. It's not usually necessary to color-code our clothing to make sure everyone knows what bits we've got.

(Which is, of course, why it is such a BIG DEAL for some people to make sure their babies are dressed in gender appropriate clothes. GOD FORBID someone should think your three-month-old daughter is a boy, or vice versa.)

48 HappyWarrior  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:36:00am

re: #44 elizajane

Even as somebody who abhors all anti-gay teasing of any sort, I was completely ready to give Romney a pass on something he did when he was 16, because who among us never did anything stupid or hurtful in their entire life? Really. I was going to throw this into the bin with Obama's composite girlfriend and Elizabeth Warren's heritage as Things from the Past upon which we should not now judge people.

But I'd have a lot more respect for Romney if he had said, "This was a terrible, shameful thing to do and I regret it deeply" or even "I don't remember it, but that kind of action against a person perceived as different is always terrible and shameful." Not, "wow, well, but I never thought he was gay."

He was 18 not exactly a kid and as you said, he seems to have no regret.

49 Simply Sarah  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:38:35am

re: #47 SanFranciscoZionist

God creatively gave us different bodies to show our gender. It's not usually necessary to color-code our clothing to make sure everyone knows what bits we've got.

(Which is, of course, why it is such a BIG DEAL for some people to make sure their babies are dressed in gender appropriate clothes. GOD FORBID someone should think your three-month-old daughter is a boy, or vice versa.)

I'd go further. Why does it matter what sex(s) or gender(s) you are (Or aren't)? I personally don't really give a damn if you or your kid is a he, she, zie, or whatever. A person is a damn person.

50 HappyWarrior  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:38:49am

My cousin's kid gets called a girl because he's got long hair but that boy can surf and skateboard like crazy. Super nice kid too.

51 gwangung  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:39:12am

re: #48 HappyWarrior

He was 18 not exactly a kid and as you said, he seems to have no regret.

He certainly doesn't seem to have a clue on how it might have been hurtful. Or how it looks to people TODAY.

52 dragonath  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:39:13am

HAIKU

What makes Romney laugh?
The Bitter tears of many
Dog Howls On Car Roof

53 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:39:24am

This whole "what Mitt Romney did at 17" thing contains very nearly an equal amount of fail as the recent Breitbrats supposed blockbuster "Obama hugging a radical professor" thing did. NO ONE outside of the circle of already deeply committed political partisans is going to give a shit, no matter how horribly damaging it may seem to you from your particular viewpoint you aren't going to get this to sell to the general public, your just not.

What, we don't have dozens of real and current issues and statements to attack him on? We have to dig up what he did as a teenager in school?

54 gwangung  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:40:49am

re: #53 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You

Fair thing to say.

But I still deduct a few points for his lame apology.

55 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:42:53am

re: #51 gwangung

He certainly doesn't seem to have a clue on how it might have been hurtful. Or how it looks to people TODAY.

because he is surrounded by the choir --they are all in a Fox News Bubble and think it emcompasses the entire country. Or at least the parts of the country that should count.

56 HappyWarrior  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:43:24am

Pretty pathetic his campaign is going to push the federal amendment to ban gay marriage. Yeah Mitt, corporations are people but gay people whose marriages are legal under the law need to be eradicated. Typical Mitt, preferring the rights of business over individuals.

57 Simply Sarah  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:43:33am

re: #53 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You

This whole "what Mitt Romney did at 17" thing contains very nearly an equal amount of fail as the recent Breitbrats supposed blockbuster "Obama hugging a radical professor" thing did. NO ONE outside of the circle of already deeply committed political partisans is going to give a shit, no matter how horribly damaging it may seem to you from your particular viewpoint you aren't going to get this to sell to the general public, your just not.

What, we don't have dozens of real and current issues and statements to attack him on? We have to dig up what he did as a teenager in school?

I disagree. The reason "X was only Y years old when they did Z" has any value in minimizing wrongful actions is because the idea is it must have been at least in part a result of youthful indiscretion. Thing is, that only works if the person shows that they've actually changed since then. If not, then it is no defense. In that case it just means they're old enough now to realize they can't get away with it.

58 Interesting Times  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:43:48am

re: #53 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You

This whole "what Mitt Romney did at 17" thing contains very nearly an equal amount of fail as the recent Breitbrats supposed blockbuster "Obama hugging a radical professor" thing did.

Sorry, but that's an epic analogy fail. Mitt Romney hurt and abused someone. Obama did not.

59 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:44:01am

re: #53 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You

I really don't get why you're so intent on sweeping this under the carpet.

60 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:44:43am

re: #53 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You

This whole "what Mitt Romney did at 17" thing contains very nearly an equal amount of fail as the recent Breitbrats supposed blockbuster "Obama hugging a radical professor" thing did. NO ONE outside of the circle of already deeply committed political partisans is going to give a shit, no matter how horribly damaging it may seem to you from your particular viewpoint you aren't going to get this to sell to the general public, your just not.

What, we don't have dozens of real and current issues and statements to attack him on? We have to dig up what he did as a teenager in school?

All I'm really picking up from this are two things (and simply reinforcing what already seems pretty clear to me at that.)
1. Mitt Romney (and his advisors) are handling his reactions to issues poorly. If the intent is to show his as having any empathy or care about his fellow citizens they are failing badly at it.

2. The right-wing barrel of hypocrisy knows no bottom. After baying about "Obama eats dog!" they turn around and scoff that what Romney did when he was eighteen is trivial and meaningless.

This whole issue is actually pretty meaningless to me. I foresee very few things at this point that would make me change my vote in November. I am simply not a member of the remaining target demographic - so maybe all this is playing out differently in that group.

61 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:45:08am

re: #58 Interesting Times

Sorry, but that's an epic analogy fail. Mitt Romney hurt and abused someone. Obama did not.

I really can't think of any news about any POTUS that showed they hurt and abused someone. 'cept LBJ and his poor beagle.

62 Simply Sarah  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:46:07am

re: #60 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

All I'm really picking up from this are two things (and simply reinforcing what already seems pretty clear to me at that.)
1. Mitt Romney (and his advisors) are handling his reactions to issues poorly. If the intent is to show his as having any empathy or care about his fellow citizens they are failing badly at it.

2. The right-wing barrel of hypocrisy knows no bottom. After baying about "Obama eats dog!" they turn around and scoff that what Romney did when he was eighteen is trivial and meaningless.

This whole issue is actually pretty meaningless to me. I foresee very few things at this point that would make me change my vote in November. I am simply not a member of the remaining target demographic - so maybe all this is playing out differently in that group.

Being one of those quirky kids that got herself picked on a lot in school, which really wasn't all that long ago for me, please understand if this whole thing kind of strikes a pretty damn personal chord with me, among other things.

63 Charles Johnson  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:46:22am

Meanwhile, yesterday I got a new follower on Twitter, a British Muslim commentator:

[Link: twitter.com...]

And now the creeps from the stalker blog are relentlessly harassing him, trying to convince him that I'm evil.

And these are people from one of the most virulently anti-Muslim sites on the Internet.

64 Obdicut  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:46:50am

re: #53 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You

I sort of agree, in that Romney, now, attempting to get an amendment passed at the federal level to ban gay marriage is far worse, a far uglier, more hurtful, and grosser attack on homosexuals than this incident could have been.

But his response to the story has still managed to annoy me.

65 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:47:31am

re: #62 Simply Sarah

Being one of those quirky kids that got herself picked on a lot in school, which really wasn't all that long ago for me, please understand if this whole thing kind of strikes a pretty damn personal chord with me, among other things.

Quoted for epic truth.

66 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:48:24am

re: #61 ggt

I really can't think of any news about any POTUS that showed they hurt and abused someone. 'cept LBJ and his poor beagle.

And LBJ could not, as I recall, be convinced that beagles didn't like being picked up by their ears, although I think he did apologize eventually.

67 Simply Sarah  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:48:40am

re: #64 Obdicut

I sort of agree, in that Romney, now, attempting to get an amendment passed at the federal level to ban gay marriage is far worse, a far uglier, more hurtful, and grosser attack on homosexuals than this incident could have been.

But his response to the story has still managed to annoy me.

Well sure. But I'm a resourceful young lady, I can be mad at him for more than one thing at a time.

68 Lidane  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:49:31am

re: #9 Charles Johnson

The bottom line: Romney's anti-gay bullying in high school will only increase his popularity with the right wing.

Especially now that he's going to campaign on a constitutional ban on gay marriage.

When was the last time we amended the Constitution to take away equal rights? This makes no sense. But hey, if the Republicans want to openly run on bigotry and on denying equality to millions of people, let them.

69 Obdicut  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:49:39am

re: #63 Charles Johnson

Well, since that dude thinks that Finklestein is the only person in the US on the 'right side' of the Israel/Palestine conversation, I don't think it'd be a tragic loss.

70 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:49:41am

re: #58 Interesting Times

Sorry, but that's an epic analogy fail. Mitt Romney hurt and abused someone. Obama did not.

It wasn't a fucking analogy, it was a comparison of two disparate memes both of which contain gigantic amounts of fail.

71 allegro  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:50:37am

re: #58 Interesting Times

Sorry, but that's an epic analogy fail. Mitt Romney hurt and abused someone. Obama did not.

I was gonna say... Obama gave a guy a hug. Romney led a pack of young men to sadistically attack another young man.

One thing is not like the other.

72 Amory Blaine  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:50:52am

"Don't get any gay blood on my white pants."

73 CuriousLurker  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:51:03am

re: #63 Charles Johnson

Meanwhile, yesterday I got a new follower on Twitter, a British Muslim commentator:

[Link: twitter.com...]

And now the creeps from the stalker blog are relentlessly harassing him, trying to convince him that I'm evil.

And these are people from one of the most virulently anti-Muslim sites on the Internet.

Of course. They did the same with me. In between insults, they sent me links or links to screenshots of old LFG posts & comments, apparently assuming that I hadn't dome my homework before joining.

74 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:51:28am

I can honestly say I don't even think Ronald Reagan could have behaved that way at such a young age.

President's seem to have an inner compass at an early age.

IIRC, RR was saving lives at the local watering hole at that age.

75 HappyWarrior  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:52:06am

re: #68 Lidane

Especially now that he's going to campaign on a constitutional ban on gay marriage.

When was the last time we amended the Constitution to take away equal rights? This makes no sense. But hey, if the Republicans want to openly run on bigotry and on denying equality to millions of people, let them.

I think that bothers me more than this story. Really, Team Romney, you want to take away people's rights? Go for it, and look like bigots to the rest of the country except the shallow minded fools who think that's okay.

76 Varek Raith  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:52:09am

re: #73 CuriousLurker

Of course. They did the same with me. In between insults, they sent me links or links to screenshots of old LFG posts & comments, apparently assuming that I hadn't dome my homework before joining.

Elitist!

77 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:52:37am

re: #63 Charles Johnson

Meanwhile, yesterday I got a new follower on Twitter, a British Muslim commentator:

[Link: twitter.com...]

And now the creeps from the stalker blog are relentlessly harassing him, trying to convince him that I'm evil.

And these are people from one of the most virulently anti-Muslim sites on the Internet.

Careful there, Charles.

[Link: moansar.blogspot.de...]

Israel, arguably a terrorist state, is overwhelmingly core funded through the US and holocaust reparations. We need not list Israeli atrocities other than to say that according to the Book of Moses, the Jews are utterly prohibited from oppressing another people, having been oppressed themselves. They are meant to wander without a land. They are in the main European, Ashkenazim, Khazar, non-Sephardic and non-Semitic Jews.

78 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:52:49am

re: #62 Simply Sarah

Being one of those quirky kids that got herself picked on a lot in school, which really wasn't all that long ago for me, please understand if this whole thing kind of strikes a pretty damn personal chord with me, among other things.

Oh, the bullying thing hit a chord with me as well since I saw that sort of thing in school and even a bit in college. (And, in fact, despite the at least partially deserved reputation I saw little bullying/hazing in the fraternity I belonged to.)

79 elizajane  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:53:28am

re: #68 Lidane

Especially now that he's going to campaign on a constitutional ban on gay marriage.

When was the last time we amended the Constitution to take away equal rights? This makes no sense. But hey, if the Republicans want to openly run on bigotry and on denying equality to millions of people, let them.

You know, this story may make it quite difficult for Romney to campaign on an anti-gay constitutional amendment. Which is perhaps why the WaPo decided to print it even though it's easy to condemn the muckraking-in-candidate's-youth kind of journalism.

80 HappyWarrior  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:53:40am

re: #74 ggt

I can honestly say I don't even think Ronald Reagan could have behaved that way at such a young age.

President's seem to have an inner compass at an early age.

You mean Nixon. But yes and that coming from who thinks that Reagan was a fraud.

81 Simply Sarah  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:53:42am

re: #66 SanFranciscoZionist

And LBJ could not, as I recall, be convinced that beagles didn't like being picked up by their ears, although I think he did apologize eventually.

LBJ makes my head hurt. I can never decide if I admire or can't stand the man and the cognitive dissonance of trying to do both is hard.

82 Decatur Deb  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:53:55am

The bullying story is just background music. It's what he wants to to tomorrow that must keep Romney away from power.

83 Obdicut  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:54:06am

re: #77 May Day! May Day!

Oy. Khazar.

84 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:54:22am

re: #81 Simply Sarah

LBJ makes my head hurt. I can never decide if I admire or can't stand the man and the cognitive dissonance of trying to do both is hard.

He and Nixon have that effect on people. They were a pair to study.

85 Charles Johnson  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:54:55am

re: #77 May Day! May Day!

Careful there, Charles.

[Link: moansar.blogspot.de...]

I'm not sure what I should be careful about -- I'm not joining up with this guy or endorsing his views, he just followed me after reading the Alternet interview.

86 CuriousLurker  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:55:01am

I don't believe for a minute that Romney doesn't remember this incident. That denial bothers me almost as much as the incident itself.

87 harrylook  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:55:08am

Stupid stuff you did in high school is now fair game? Shit. I'll never be prez....

BTW, if this is relevant, then so are Obama's college/law school transcripts.

88 HappyWarrior  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:55:21am

re: #81 Simply Sarah

LBJ makes my head hurt. I can never decide if I admire or can't stand the man and the cognitive dissonance of trying to do both is hard.

Well that's why I loved being a history major. Ambiguity fascinates me.

89 Lidane  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:55:30am

re: #81 Simply Sarah

LBJ makes my head hurt. I can never decide if I admire or can't stand the man and the cognitive dissonance of trying to do both is hard.

Same with Nixon. Both men did some good things, but they were also both incredible bastards and not very nice at all. They're both definitely frustrating.

90 Lidane  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:56:13am

re: #87 harrylook

Obama's transcripts =/= Romney's physical assault of a classmate

91 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:56:23am

re: #75 HappyWarrior

I think that bothers me more than this story. Really, Team Romney, you want to take away people's rights? Go for it, and look like bigots to the rest of the country except the shallow minded fools who think that's okay.

They're going to hinge it on the word "marriage" and play it up as an assault on freedom of religion. Focus entirely and exclusively on the religious meaning of the word and completely ignore that there is a separate and arguably unrelated legal definition used for the government recognized *and licensed* social contract.

92 Gus  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:56:36am

It's not uncommon to let anyone follow you on Twitter. Generally speaking people don't vet followers. What you do is up to your own MO.

93 HappyWarrior  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:56:41am

re: #90 Lidane

Obama's transcripts =/= Romney's physical assault of a classmate

He got a B in Math, hang him!

94 Obdicut  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:57:13am

re: #85 Charles Johnson

It really shows the priorities of the stalkers, though.

This guy is a guy who's calling Israel a terrorist state, subscribing to the bizarre Khazar conspiracy theories, and saying Jews shouldn't have a homeland. Supposedly, he should be their arch-enemy.

and all they can think to do is tell him that you're anti-Islam. Because that's what's important to them.

95 HappyWarrior  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:57:27am

re: #91 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

They're going to hinge it on the word "marriage" and play it up as an assault on freedom of religion. Focus entirely and exclusively on the religious meaning of the word and completely ignore that there is a separate and arguably unrelated legal definition used for the government recognized *and licensed* social contract.

Hasn't Romney came out against civil unions too essentially?

96 harrylook  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:58:09am

re: #90 Lidane

I didn't say they were the same, except in terms of relevance. A lot of time has passed since then, and both men I think can stand on what they have done since their youth.

97 Charles Johnson  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:58:20am

re: #94 Obdicut

It really shows the priorities of the stalkers, though.

This guy is a guy who's calling Israel a terrorist state, subscribing to the bizarre Khazar conspiracy theories, and saying Jews shouldn't have a homeland. Supposedly, he should be their arch-enemy.

and all they can think to do is tell him that you're anti-Islam. Because that's what's important to them.

Don't worry - as soon as they read these comments, which they've probably already done, they'll switch around and start attacking me for "associating" with him.

98 Lidane  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:58:29am

re: #91 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Focus entirely and exclusively on the religious meaning of the word and completely ignore that there is a separate and arguably unrelated legal definition used for the government recognized *and licensed* social contract.

That's what all these bigots do. They focus on the Bible and on whatever their preachers say about marriage and ignore the legal, civil contract side of it all. It's bullshit.

99 Gus  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:58:31am

re: #94 Obdicut

It really shows the priorities of the stalkers, though.

This guy is a guy who's calling Israel a terrorist state, subscribing to the bizarre Khazar conspiracy theories, and saying Jews shouldn't have a homeland. Supposedly, he should be their arch-enemy.

and all they can think to do is tell him that you're anti-Islam. Because that's what's important to them.

They're washing their hands for the 100th time this morning.

100 Simply Sarah  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:58:48am

re: #95 HappyWarrior

Hasn't Romney came out against civil unions too essentially?

He said he's OK with them so long as they are very explicitly second class arrangements without all the benefits of marriage, although he wasn't very clear on what he wanted to withhold from them. So yes, he has.

101 iossarian  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:58:52am

re: #87 harrylook

Stupid stuff you did in high school is now fair game? Shit. I'll never be prez...

BTW, if this is relevant, then so are Obama's college/law school transcripts.

Yawn. Romney didn't deserve to go to a prestigious college. He was obviously the beneficiary of affirmative action for rich well-connected kids. You can tell just by looking at him.

102 jaunte  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:59:17am

“Anyone who knows Mitt Romney knows that he doesn’t have a mean-spirited bone in his body.”

The mean spirit is carried in the meat parts.

103 harrylook  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:59:32am

re: #101 iossarian

dope. i had to show my transcripts to get my job. and i'm important.

104 harrylook  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:59:41am

re: #103 harrylook

NOT important

105 HappyWarrior  Thu, May 10, 2012 10:59:42am

re: #100 Simply Sarah

He said he's OK with them so long as they are very explicitly second class arrangements without all the benefits of marriage, although he wasn't very clear on what he wanted to withhold from them. So yes, he has.

Thought so. Romney being Romney.

106 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:00:28am

re: #100 Simply Sarah

He said he's OK with them so long as they are very explicitly second class arrangements without all the benefits of marriage, although he wasn't very clear on what he wanted to withhold from them. So yes, he has.

Which brings us to the crux of things lately.

People who believe there should be "classes" of citizens and non-citizens.

People who believe in a class-less world.

107 Simply Sarah  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:00:39am

re: #87 harrylook

Stupid stuff you did in high school is now fair game? Shit. I'll never be prez...

BTW, if this is relevant, then so are Obama's college/law school transcripts.

For me and for several others here, the biggest issue is how Romney has responded to this by basically dismissing it as an issue, rather than demonstrating any remorse (Or indicating he remembers it).

108 Interesting Times  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:00:39am

re: #70 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You

re: #87 harrylook

Again - Mitt Romney hurt, abused, and physically assaulted someone. Obama did NOT. One of these things is not like the other. Epic COMPARISON fail.

Seriously, how in hell-heaps can someone not see this? o_O

109 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:00:42am

re: #102 jaunte

“Anyone who knows Mitt Romney knows that he doesn’t have a mean-spirited bone in his body.”

The mean spirit is carried in the meat parts.

The Romneybot 6000 uses an advanced alloy skeletal support system and has no need for bones. This aids our efforts to pander to the invertebrate vote.
/

110 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:00:47am

re: #87 harrylook

Why?

"One of these things is not like the other..."

111 allegro  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:01:11am

re: #96 harrylook

I didn't say they were the same, except in terms of relevance. A lot of time has passed since then, and both men I think can stand on what they have done since their youth.

Me too. That's why I notice ROmney's statement that he enjoys firing people in service to him. He made his millions destroying people, destroying their companies and their jobs, trashing their pensions. All in a day's work.

That he was an asshole in school is just a footnote. He is still an asshole without any demonstrable compassion or empathy.

112 Lidane  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:01:37am

re: #96 harrylook

I didn't say they were the same, except in terms of relevance. A lot of time has passed since then, and both men I think can stand on what they have done since their youth.

Except that the guy who physically attacked a classmate and who has a history of bullying is ALSO going to run his campaign on denying equality to millions through the Constitution. I'd call his actions at 18 relevant now.

113 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:01:47am

But Obama ate a dog!

114 Kragar  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:02:48am

Luckily, one of the great thinkers of our time has chosen to share her wisdom:

Bristol Palin Slams Obama For Gay Marriage Position

A day after President Obama came out in support of same-sex marriage, Bristol Palin wrote a blog post attacking his position, taking issue with the fact that Obama said his daughters helped him “evolve” toward supporting marriage equality.

In a blog post titled “Hail to the Chiefs – Malia and Sasha Obama,” Bristol Palin says the president should be teaching his daughters values, not learning from them, and compared the president to a teenager who has seen ”one too many episodes of Glee.” Palin’s blog is hosted by the religious website Patheos.

Ah yes, values, like abstaining from premarital sex and the sins of being an unwed mother for instance, 2 values the Wingnuts champion again and again.

115 Charles Johnson  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:02:50am

re: #108 Interesting Times

re: #87 harrylook

Again - Mitt Romney hurt, abused, and physically assaulted someone. Obama did NOT. One of these things is not like the other. Epic COMPARISON fail.

Seriously, how in hell-heaps can someone not see this? o_O

Agree, this was not just a stupid "prank." It was a physical assault, a crime. Romney should have been arrested in my opinion. But in 1965, it was a lot easier to get away with this kind of stuff - especially when your father was the Governor.

116 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:02:54am

And JFK, well there's no telling what JFK did.

117 harrylook  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:02:58am

re: #108 Interesting Times

re: #87 harrylook

Again - Mitt Romney hurt, abused, and physically assaulted someone. Obama did NOT. One of these things is not like the other. Epic COMPARISON fail.

Seriously, how in hell-heaps can someone not see this? o_O

Uh, yeah, it's awful. But it was 50 years ago. I was bullied relentlessly in high school, but I would bet (in fact I know) that most of the bullies are vastly different people now. I don't hold any of it against them any more. So, it's going to be impossible for me to get mad at Romney for this.

118 Gus  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:03:37am

I think I have some gay, communist, Tea Party, atheist and Muslim followers on Twitter. Guess that makes me a Gay-Atheist-Muslim-Communist-Teabagger.

//

119 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:04:01am

re: #111 allegro

Me too. That's why I notice ROmney's statement that he enjoys firing people in service to him. He made his millions destroying people, destroying their companies and their jobs, trashing their pensions. All in a day's work.

That he was an asshole in school is just a footnote. He is still an asshole without any demonstrable compassion or empathy.

QFT.

As I've said before, this incident is a mirror that shows us that what he was then is what he is now. And that's not very pretty.

120 Simply Sarah  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:04:54am

re: #114 Kragar

Luckily, one of the great thinkers of our time has chosen to share her wisdom:

Bristol Palin Slams Obama For Gay Marriage Position

Ah yes, values, like abstaining for premarital sex and the sins of being an unwed mother for instance, 2 values the Wingnuts champion again and again.

Well, there's part of her problem. She apparently has been totally indoctrinated into the idea that knowledge and understanding can only flow one way, from older generations to younger, while anything from new generations should simply be dismissed as the foolishness of children.

122 Simply Sarah  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:05:36am

re: #116 Shiplord Kirel

Well, Jack was an asshole too, but he's not exactly running for POTUS at this time, now is he?

123 iossarian  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:05:50am

re: #117 harrylook

You make a good point. None of Romney's countless gaffes and instances of crass behavior would, taken alone, be disqualifying.

Taken as a whole, however, you have to admit it's a pretty unedifying spectacle.

I like to think of it as the drip, drip, drip of douchebaggery.

124 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:06:20am

re: #70 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You

It wasn't a fucking analogy, it was a comparison of two disparate memes both of which contain gigantic amounts of fail.

Sorry for the quick and somewhat vulgar reply but my phone started ringing, still I don't think I would have said it a whole lot differently even with more time to do so.

125 HappyWarrior  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:06:40am

re: #114 Kragar

Luckily, one of the great thinkers of our time has chosen to share her wisdom:

Bristol Palin Slams Obama For Gay Marriage Position

Ah yes, values, like abstaining from premarital sex and the sins of being an unwed mother for instance, 2 values the Wingnuts champion again and again.

Is Bristol seriously saying parents can't learn from their parents? This reeks of what I'd call the Palin-Descartes Method, Obama is, therefore the Palin's attack.

126 harrylook  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:06:59am

re: #123 iossarian

You make a good point. None of Romney's countless gaffes and instances of crass behavior would, taken alone, be disqualifying.

Taken as a whole, however, you have to admit it's a pretty unedifying spectacle.

I like to think of it as the drip, drip, drip of douchebaggery.

I think both candidates are super douchebags.

127 CuriousLurker  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:07:00am

re: #121 May Day! May Day!

Beautiful.

*headdesk*

Gotta get back to work now, but before I go I'd recommend that anyone who hasn't read this do so. It's long but interesting:

The Meaning of Mitt

Mitt Romney has long been a front-runner for the G.O.P. nomination—even if no one really knows who he is. Digging into the candidate’s record as a Mormon leader, his business deals at Bain Capital, and that infamous car trip with the family dog strapped to the roof, Michael Kranish and Scott Helman pierce the Mitt bubble in an adaptation from their new book, The Real Romney, to find that the contradictions, question marks, and ambivalence go deeper than his politics.

Later.

128 Lidane  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:07:04am

re: #114 Kragar

Luckily, one of the great thinkers of our time has chosen to share her wisdom:

Bristol Palin Slams Obama For Gay Marriage Position

Doesn't she have a reality show to audition for?

129 A Man for all Seasons  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:07:15am

re: #78 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Oh, the bullying thing hit a chord with me as well since I saw that sort of thing in school and even a bit in college. (And, in fact, despite the at least partially deserved reputation I saw little bullying/hazing in the fraternity I belonged to.)

I must confess..My first day in High School I got into a fight with a big bully.
There were many days at first I fought the Jocks at school to prove myself.
I hated them and knocked a few of those fuckers out and got kicked out of PE and the baseball team... I'm smiling now thinking back on those fights and how silly and angry I was.

130 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:07:27am

re: #114 Kragar

Luckily, one of the great thinkers of our time has chosen to share her wisdom:

Bristol Palin Slams Obama For Gay Marriage Position

Ah yes, values, like abstaining from premarital sex and the sins of being an unwed mother for instance, 2 values the Wingnuts champion again and again.

And WHY is anyone reporting on what Bristol Palin thinks? What has she accomplished that we listen to her?

131 Talking Point Detective  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:07:34am
“I certainly don’t believe that I thought the fellow was homosexual,”

This is on a par with "I mis-remembered" and "It depends on what the meaning of is, is."

Romney told Kilmeade. “That was the furthest thing from our minds back in the 1960s.” …

Also, absolutely ridiculous. Targeting and victimizing homosexuals goes back waaaaaaaaay before the '60s.

The only thing that makes me feel unequivocal in my support of disingenuous Democratic politicians is the notably more overtly disingenuousness of Republican politicians.

132 dragonath  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:08:46am

re: #131 Talking Point Detective

This whole story has shades of George Allen to it. It's not like Romney had some kind of prodigal son moment. That weird deflecting answer is really getting on my nerves.

Oh well, he's given the story legs to run and run.

133 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:08:55am

re: #127 CuriousLurker

*headdesk*

What can you expect from a Kahane fan?

134 Obdicut  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:09:23am

re: #121 May Day! May Day!

Fucking Kahanists.

Nothing ever changes.

135 Interesting Times  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:09:36am

re: #117 harrylook

Uh, yeah, it's awful. But it was 50 years ago. I was bullied relentlessly in high school, but I would bet (in fact I know) that most of the bullies are vastly different people now.

Horseshit. Casual cruelty and lack of empathy for others are two positions Romney has not changed. And there are gobs of people who were bullies as youths, and bullies as adults (and the latter, to the detriment of us all, can be found in all kinds of positions of power over others).

136 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:09:38am

re: #126 harrylook

I think both candidates are super douchebags.

Why is Obama a douchebag?

137 Varek Raith  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:09:45am

re: #134 Obdicut

Fucking Kahanists.

Nothing ever changes.

He is? Well son of a...

138 allegro  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:09:56am

re: #126 harrylook

I think both candidates are super douchebags.

You might back that up with some actual facts. How is Obama a douchebag?

139 iossarian  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:10:16am

re: #126 harrylook

I think both candidates are super douchebags.

Reasons please. Here are my Romney reasons:

- "I like to fire people"
- $375K a year is "not a lot of money"
- Various other instances of making glib remarks about people not being able to afford stuff
- Elevator for his cars
- Pays for lawyers to lobby local government so he can build said car elevator
- Is anti-gay (examples furnished on request)
- Is anti-woman (ditto)
- Supported Vietnam war yet dodged the draft
- Hides his income in offshore bank accounts
- Made fortune asset-stripping US companies and sending jobs overseas

There are more, but that should be enough for now.

140 Lidane  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:10:29am

re: #126 harrylook

I think both candidates are super douchebags.

What has the POTUS done that makes him a douchebag?

141 Simply Sarah  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:10:31am

re: #125 HappyWarrior

Is Bristol seriously saying parents can't learn from their parents? This reeks of what I'd call the Palin-Descartes Method, Obama is, therefore the Palin's attack.

I doubt she'd be a fan of Descartes. Sarah probably thinks René sounds like a girl's name.

142 HappyWarrior  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:10:46am

re: #132 Be Zorch, Daddio

This whole story has shades of George Allen to it. It's not like Romney had some kind of prodigal son moment. That weird deflecting answer is really getting on my nerves.

Oh well, he's given the story legs to run and run.

That's immediately who I thought of hearing this story.

143 Charles Johnson  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:10:54am

Romney's assault left a lasting impression on his victim:

One of Romney’s classmates told the Post he met Lauber years later and apologized for not stopping the bullying, prompting Lauber to respond that it was “horrible” and “something I have thought about a lot since then.” Lauber died in 2004.

144 Decatur Deb  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:11:11am

If we start fastening on every lame bit of arrogance, ignorance, and misbehavior that Romney has stored away for 60 years, we're going to sound like Freepers. The guy's a POS that should never hold office. Let's think about preventing it.

145 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:11:25am

As my imaginary friend Ambiguous Chameleon used to say, "So many assholes, so little time".//

146 Killgore Trout  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:11:50am

re: #63 Charles Johnson

Meanwhile, yesterday I got a new follower on Twitter, a British Muslim commentator:

[Link: twitter.com...]

And now the creeps from the stalker blog are relentlessly harassing him, trying to convince him that I'm evil.

And these are people from one of the most virulently anti-Muslim sites on the Internet.

I looked into him yesterday. I'm not a big fan of the MCB and his mention of the ugliness from zionists set off alarm bells for me. His blog is pretty interesting and I think he has some decent ideas. I might disagree with him on a lot of issues but his version of Islam seems pretty tolerant and modern.

147 Interesting Times  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:11:53am

re: #114 Kragar

148 Lidane  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:11:59am

re: #141 Simply Sarah

I doubt she'd be a fan of Descartes. Sarah probably thinks René sounds like a girl's name.

Sarah Palin probably doesn't know who Descartes was. After all, he was French philosopher. That was above her pay grade in Wasilla.

149 HappyWarrior  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:12:06am

re: #141 Simply Sarah

I doubt she'd be a fan of Descartes. Sarah probably thinks René sounds like a girl's name.

I know heh. I'd be shocked if she knew who he was honestly.

150 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:12:57am

Heh.

151 Simply Sarah  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:13:25am

re: #148 Lidane

Sarah Palin probably doesn't know who Descartes was. After all, he was French philosopher. That was above her pay grade in Wasilla.

Oh, true. She'd probably just ask "Is she one of them libural lamestream media people?"

152 Talking Point Detective  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:13:43am

re: #87 harrylook

Stupid stuff you did in high school is now fair game? Shit. I'll never be prez...

BTW, if this is relevant, then so are Obama's college/law school transcripts.

I think it is arguable how relevant what he did in high school is. Even later in life, I've made mistakes that I don't think are definitive in evaluating who I am now.

But his current statements on the high school issue are absolutely relevant. He's clearly avoiding accountability while laughably trying to appear accountable.

That you wouldn't be troubled by that is informative.

153 HappyWarrior  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:14:29am

re: #151 Simply Sarah

Oh, true. She'd probably just ask "Is she one of them libural lamestream media people?"

"French Marxist snobby elitist."

154 harrylook  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:14:31am

re: #138 allegro

You might back that up with some actual facts. How is Obama a douchebag?

Writing 2 memoirs before accomplishing anything of note.

Excoriating Bush for anti-terror policies, then adopting them as his own.

Saying it's a black eye on America to not give KSM constitutional rights, while blowing up an American without attempting an arrest.

I agree with some of things Obama has done (mostly in the WOT), but as a person, I do not like him.

155 Simply Sarah  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:15:04am

re: #151 Simply Sarah

Oh, true. She'd probably just ask "Is she one of them libural lamestream media people?"

She might be interested when you mention his demon, though. Well, at least until you tried to explain it.

156 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:15:04am

18 is adult. Heck, he could star in porn already. Would have been better off too.

157 Lidane  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:15:14am

re: #144 Decatur Deb

I'm hopeful that his campaign of open bigotry, contempt for the lower and middle classes and corporate whoredom will be enough to keep him out of office.

158 CuriousLurker  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:15:24am

re: #133 May Day! May Day!

What can you expect from a Kahane fan?

Exactly. I checked his blog about a month ago when he posted something else.

159 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:15:31am

re: #148 Lidane

Sarah Palin probably doesn't know who Descartes was. After all, he was French philosopher. That was above her pay grade in Wasilla.

Heh. I'm reminded of the time when I quoted John Locke to a teabagger only to be told that "Frog Philosophy" had nothing to do with America. I couldn't help it and just laughed at him as I walked away.

160 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:15:58am

Like high school football, participation in bullying teaches young people about life. It is necessary to prepare the stronger ones for such vital and lucrative careers as postal supervisor and California police officer.

161 Lidane  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:16:23am

re: #159 William Barnett-Lewis

Heh. I'm reminded of the time when I quoted John Locke to a teabagger only to be told that "Frog Philosophy" had nothing to do with America. I couldn't help it and just laughed at him as I walked away.

It would have made his head explode to know the influence that Locke and Rousseau had on the Founders.

162 Decatur Deb  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:16:53am

re: #157 Lidane

I'm hopeful that his campaign of open bigotry, contempt for the lower and middle classes and corporate whoredom will be enough to keep him out of office.

Forty-eight percent of our countrymen seem to think those are qualifications. That's what we're up against.

163 HappyWarrior  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:17:00am

re: #159 William Barnett-Lewis

Heh. I'm reminded of the time when I quoted John Locke to a teabagger only to be told that "Frog Philosophy" had nothing to do with America. I couldn't help it and just laughed at him as I walked away.

Oh man, that's hilarious on so many levels. Reminds me of those freaking out over Obama's czars and equating them with Bolshevism.

164 Simply Sarah  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:17:12am

re: #154 harrylook

Writing 2 memoirs before accomplishing anything of note.

Excoriating Bush for anti-terror policies, then adopting them as his own.

Saying it's a black eye on America to not give KSM constitutional rights, while blowing up an American without attempting an arrest.

I agree with some of things Obama has done (mostly in the WOT), but as a person, I do not like him.

Well, I'm actually mostly with you the above except the memoir part. Anyone is free to write memoirs if they wish and if people want to read them then the more power to you.

165 Charles Johnson  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:17:29am

re: #146 Killgore Trout

He tweeted this video yesterday, showing him confronting English Defense League thug Tommy Robinson on the BBC:

Youtube Video
166 sffilk  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:17:46am

In Mormonspeak:

Back in high school I did some dumb things and if anybody was hurt by that or offended by that I apologize,

means that the person who was hurt or offended is to blame for being hurt or offended.

(sarcasm)Charming(/sarcasm)

167 Simply Sarah  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:17:58am

re: #159 William Barnett-Lewis

Heh. I'm reminded of the time when I quoted John Locke to a teabagger only to be told that "Frog Philosophy" had nothing to do with America. I couldn't help it and just laughed at him as I walked away.

Oh, that's fantastic on so many levels.

168 allegro  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:18:02am

re: #154 harrylook

Writing 2 memoirs before accomplishing anything of note.

Excoriating Bush for anti-terror policies, then adopting them as his own.

Saying it's a black eye on America to not give KSM constitutional rights, while blowing up an American without attempting an arrest.

I agree with some of things Obama has done (mostly in the WOT), but as a person, I do not like him.

That's fair enough. I credit you for giving an honest answer.

169 iossarian  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:18:40am

re: #154 harrylook

Writing 2 memoirs before accomplishing anything of note.

That made me laugh.

Dreams from My Father: A Story of Race and Inheritance is a memoir by United States President Barack Obama. It was first published in July 1995 as he was preparing to launch his political career,[1] five years after being elected the first African-American president of the Harvard Law Review in 1990.

OMG he wrote a book and hadn't even been into space yet!

170 Talking Point Detective  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:18:55am

re: #154 harrylook

Writing 2 memoirs before accomplishing anything of note.

An entirely subjective evaluation - what is accomplishing "something of note?" Would you call anyone who has written a memoir without having met your bar of "accomplishing something of note" a "douchebag?"

Excoriating Bush for anti-terror policies, then adopting them as his own.

If you think that political expediency qualifies a politician as a "douchebag," would you mind listing any politicians that you think aren't "douchebags?"

Saying it's a black eye on America to not give KSM constitutional rights, ...

Would you mind providing a quote for that - in context?

171 iossarian  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:20:07am

That shifty-looking president. I can't put my finger on why I JUST DON'T LIKE HIM OR HIS KIND.

172 Killgore Trout  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:20:39am

re: #165 Charles Johnson

He tweeted this video yesterday, showing him confronting English Defense League thug Tommy Robinson on the BBC:

[Embedded content]

Maybe he's a bit of a mixed bag. I just starting reading his conversation with the stalkers and he's praising Finklestein as one of the few Americans on the right side. Ugh.

173 dragonath  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:20:56am

Thinking about the subject of male dominance talked about on the last thread, I'm reminded of the debates where Romney would put his hands on the shoulders of his opponents, like Perry. But he's pushed around so easily by people like Fischer and the base. It's odd.

174 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:22:20am

Coming back to this thread after abandoning it out of lack of interest, I realize that this little story is just the sort of thing that Mitt does not need: something to put the notion in voters' minds that to Mitt, we 99-percenters are all just dogs to be strapped to his roof or "sissy boys" to be held down and sheared...

175 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:23:19am

re: #173 Be Zorch, Daddio

Thinking about the subject of male dominance talked about on the last thread, I'm reminded of the debates where Romney would put his hands on the shoulders of his opponents, like Perry. But he's pushed around so easily by people like Fischer and the base. It's odd.

It is not odd, he is in a precarious position: he feels compelled to prove his ideological conservative creds to such an extent that he is afraid to do anything to offend them.

176 HappyWarrior  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:23:35am

re: #173 Be Zorch, Daddio

Thinking about the subject male dominance on the last thread, I'm reminded of the debates where Romney would put his hands on the shoulders of his opponents, like Perry. But he's pushed around so easily by people like Fischer and the base. It's odd.

It is. Guess Mitt's capable of being bully and bullied. He's clearly being bullied by the religious right, at the time he's content front in center being a bully for wealthy interests.

177 Kragar  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:23:38am

KAHAAAAAAANNNEEEE!!!!

/sorry, had to do it.

178 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:24:21am

re: #129 HoosierHoops

I must confess..My first day in High School I got into a fight with a big bully.
There were many days at first I fought the Jocks at school to prove myself.
I hated them and knocked a few of those fuckers out and got kicked out of PE and the baseball team... I'm smiling now thinking back on those fights and how silly and angry I was.

I was one of the quiet and awkward kids that got good grades. Wasn't directly bullied due to being a little larger than average. I got sucked in from standing up for smaller kids who were being bullied, or in one case simply being targeted due to not being part of a larger clique.

That I did not end up in larger trouble is sort of surprising looking back on some of the situations in retrospect. Had teachers/principles who were remarkably obtuse, or good at knowing when to look the other way is all I can figure.

179 wrenchwench  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:25:00am

re: #121 May Day! May Day!

Beautiful.

Somebody needs some ointment.

180 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:25:26am

re: #173 Be Zorch, Daddio

Thinking about the subject of male dominance talked about on the last thread, I'm reminded of the debates where Romney would put his hands on the shoulders of his opponents, like Perry. But he's pushed around so easily by people like Fischer and the base. It's odd.

Not really. Most bullys are also cowards and thus easily bullied in return.

181 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:25:47am

re: #140 Lidane

What has the POTUS done that makes him a douchebag?

You mean besides not be a conservative Republican?
///

182 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:25:51am

re: #176 HappyWarrior

It is. Guess Mitt's capable of being bully and bullied. He's clearly being bullied by the religious right, at the time he's content front in center being a bully for wealthy interests.

I think he sees the Religious Right as the Authority Figure and he is the leader they are directing to act on their behalf.

Similar to how he would "give" the directions to members of his congregation.

183 Charles Johnson  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:25:57am

re: #172 Killgore Trout

He's anti-Israel, clearly. That's a very common position in Britain, unfortunately, and not just among Muslims.

But I checked his blog, and he's definitely no extremist. Seems pretty thoughtful.

184 wrenchwench  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:26:59am

re: #183 Charles Johnson

He's anti-Israel, clearly. That's a very common position in Britain, unfortunately, and not just among Muslims.

But I checked his blog, and he's definitely no extremist. Seems pretty thoughtful.

He could learn something. It's happened.

185 dragonath  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:27:01am

Romney is sure to win the renegade Amish vote! Mitt/Mullet 2012!

186 Randall Gross  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:27:15am

Watching the video, it never fails -- you pin a bigot down with hard facts and the comeback is almost guaranteed to be "some of my best friends are x"...

187 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:27:16am

re: #149 HappyWarrior

I know heh. I'd be shocked if she knew who he was honestly.

He goes in front of the horse. And he drinks a lot.
;)

188 Kragar  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:28:18am

Conservative Activists Liken IRS Rules on Churches to Nazi Germany

Religious Right activists continuously claim that a wide majority of Americans share their ultraconservative views but are too politically apathetic or confused to act on their beliefs, frequently blaming the IRS for supposedly “silencing” pastors by maintaining a rule that would take away a church’s tax-exempt status if it endorses candidates. This week, Truth in Action Ministries unveiled a film on Truth that Transforms featuring host Jerry Newcombe, Liberty Counsel’s Mat Staver, Liberty Institute’s Kelly Shackelford and author Bill Federer, along with a petition “to repeal the ban on church free speech.”

“How does Satan always work?” Shackelford asked. “False information, intimidation and fear, and that’s what’s happening here.” Later, Federer said that “horrible things can and unfortunately will happen” as a result of the IRS rule, while the film showed images of Adolf Hitler delivering a speech and the corpses of Holocaust victims.

189 Killgore Trout  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:29:30am

re: #183 Charles Johnson

He's anti-Israel, clearly. That's a very common position in Britain, unfortunately, and not just among Muslims.

But I checked his blog, and he's definitely no extremist. Seems pretty thoughtful.

Yeah, it's too bad he's his anti-Israel stuff is over the line. He seems to have some reasonable ideas about Islam.

190 Kragar  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:29:41am
“How does Satan always work?” Shackelford asked. “False information, intimidation and fear, and that’s what’s happening here.”

Is that anything like saying homosexuals are all sexual deviants who were abused as children and will burn in hell for being sinners?

191 wrenchwench  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:29:48am

re: #188 Kragar

Conservative Activists Liken IRS Rules on Churches to Nazi Germany

frequently blaming the IRS for supposedly “silencing” pastors by maintaining a rule that would take away a church’s tax-exempt status if it endorses candidates.

If they don't want to be 'silenced', they could just pay taxes like everyone else.

192 HappyWarrior  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:30:21am

re: #188 Kragar

Conservative Activists Liken IRS Rules on Churches to Nazi Germany

Yeah just like Nazi Germany. Assholes wouldn't know Nazi Germany if it bit them in the ass.

193 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:30:24am

re: #191 wrenchwench

If they don't want to be 'silenced', they could just pay taxes like everyone else.

Churches are people --like corporations --doncha' know?

/

194 Four More Tears  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:30:47am

re: #188 Kragar

Conservative Activists Liken IRS Rules on Churches to Nazi Germany

Stop bitching, form ChristPAC, and get the best of both worlds, I say.

195 HappyWarrior  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:31:00am

re: #191 wrenchwench

If they don't want to be 'silenced', they could just pay taxes like everyone else.

That would be worse than Hitler and Stalin combined though.//

196 makeitstop  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:31:03am

Romney camp goes looking for fellow heartless bastards former classmates to vouch for the candidate...

Romney campaign asking Romney's old Cranbrook friends to come out in support of the candidate in light of the Washington Post article

I wonder if they'll find anyone...

197 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:31:22am

re: #193 ggt

Churches are people --like corporations --doncha' know?

/

Hmm. At what point does Exxon-Mobil run for office?

198 jaunte  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:31:47am

re: #194 Assemble!

Stop bitching, form ChristPAC, and get the best of both worlds, I say.

Satan must be making them lazy.

199 HappyWarrior  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:31:59am

re: #196 makeitstop

Romney camp goes looking for fellow heartless bastards former classmates to vouch for the candidate...

I wonder if they'll find anyone...

Hmmm how interesting.

200 CuriousLurker  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:32:06am

*SIGH* I should know better than to leave the Spy open if I want to get any work done.

re: #172 Killgore Trout

Maybe he's a bit of a mixed bag. I just starting reading his conversation with the stalkers and he's praising Finklestein as one of the few Americans on the right side. Ugh.

I'm glad you brought up Finkelstein. Last week Al Jazeera posted a documentary on him called American Radical, and I've been meaning to watch it as I don't know much about him beyond what I've heard here and read on Wikipedia. I know he's a polarizing figure, and I don't know if the documentary pro, con, or neutral, but I guess that'll become apparent once I watch it.

Which reminds me, is anyone familiar with Norman Geras? For some reason I'm following him on Twitter (I have no idea why), and he tweeted a pretty interesting article called Alibi Anti-Semitism the other day, so I was just wondering. Is he a Marxist? I read the Wiki article on him, but that's about it. If anyone can give me a synopsis of what he's about, I'd appreciate it.

201 wrenchwench  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:34:50am

re: #195 HappyWarrior

That would be worse than Hitler and Stalin combined though.//

Plus Obama!!!1!

202 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:34:53am

re: #197 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Hmm. At what point does Exxon-Mobil run for office?

Only one SCOTUS justice away...

203 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:35:19am

re: #197 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Hmm. At what point does Exxon-Mobil run for office?

LOL

204 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:36:03am

re: #172 Killgore Trout

Maybe he's a bit of a mixed bag. I just starting reading his conversation with the stalkers and he's praising Finklestein as one of the few Americans on the right side. Ugh.

I have no use for Finkelstein kookery, but interestingly enough he is both for the 2 state solution (unlike a lot of people who we would call anti-Israel extremists) and against BDS, and he even argues against Walt and Mearsheimer, so in practical terms his position is not the most marginal or extreme. In fact, when I learned about it, I was surprised.

Cf. [Link: www.haaretz.com...]

205 Kragar  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:36:24am

re: #191 wrenchwench

If they don't want to be 'silenced', they could just pay taxes like everyone else.

BUT THATS GOD'S MONEY, SO HE CAN BUY THINGS LIKE LIMOUSINES AND PET MOBILE HOMES FOR HIS PROPHETS!

206 wrenchwench  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:37:58am

re: #200 CuriousLurker

*SIGH* I should know better than to leave the Spy open if I want to get any work done.

You and me both, sister. The bikes are everywhere...

207 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:38:05am

My reaction to trying to determine Mitts character from his actions as a teen is surely tied to my own extensive troubles as a teen, I managed to write those years off as a total loss and start over. So I'm not about to judge anyone else for their juvenile behavior unless it is clearly obvious by their actions that they have just never changed. In this case it is not...

208 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:38:09am

Sheriff Joe being sued by Justice Department for racial profiling.

Arpaio says the justice department is telling him "how to run my organisation"

The US Department of Justice has sued an Arizona sheriff accused of racially profiling Latinos, among other alleged civil rights violations.

The lawsuit alleges sloppy police work and a disregard for minority rights by Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio.

US officials wanted the sheriff to agree to train his officers in how to perform duties such as traffic stops.

But Sheriff Arpaio, who denies the allegations, said the department's demands would nullify his authority.

209 Kragar  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:38:22am

Making churches tax exempt was a stupid, stupid idea.

210 Interesting Times  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:39:12am

re: #207 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You

So I'm not about to judge anyone else for their juvenile behavior unless it is clearly obvious by their actions that they have just never changed. In this case it is not...

It isn't?

Ed Gillespie, senior adviser to Mitt Romney’s presidential campaign, told Chuck Todd on MSNBC’s Daily Rundown that the campaign would make President Obama’s support for marriage equality an issue this November and that Romney will actively push for a constitutional amendment to take away the right of states to voluntarily extend marriage equality to same-sex couples.

211 Lidane  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:39:14am

re: #191 wrenchwench

If they don't want to be 'silenced', they could just pay taxes like everyone else.

Exactly.

All these churches and bishops and whoever are perfectly free to express all their political opinions, and to endorse candidates all they want. They just have to give up their tax-exempt status and pay their admission fee like everyone else.

212 HappyWarrior  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:39:49am

re: #209 Kragar

Making churches tax exempt was a stupid, stupid idea.

Are we one of the few western nation that makes them exempt? I don't know other western nations' church and state policies.

213 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:40:03am
On the eve of the lawsuit, Sheriff Arpaio said: "If they sue, we'll go to court. And then we'll find out the real story. They're telling me how to run my organisation."

Really? Sheriff Joe's organization?

hmmmm

214 Killgore Trout  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:40:43am

re: #200 CuriousLurker

I'm glad you brought up Finkelstein. Last week Al Jazeera posted a documentary on him called American Radical, and I've been meaning to watch it as I don't know much about him beyond what I've heard here and read on Wikipedia. I know he's a polarizing figure, and I don't know if the documentary pro, con, or neutral, but I guess that'll become apparent once I watch it.

My guess is they'll be neutral yet supportive of him. Let me know what you think about it when you get around to watching it.

215 HappyWarrior  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:40:54am

re: #213 ggt

Really? Sheriff Joe's organization?

hmmm

Yeah strange way to put it huh.

216 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:41:05am

re: #188 Kragar

there is no attempt to place a ban on church free speech, the IRS just upholding a law that says they lose their tax-exempt status for engaging in political activity.

That is not repression, it is just fair play.

217 Interesting Times  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:41:17am

Holy bad craziness batman o_O

It is a very serious offense and therefore the punishment is serious. (BTW, many forbidden heterosexual acts, such as adultery, also are punishable by death.)

The stoning punishment is not carried out anymore, for technical reasons.

218 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:42:07am

re: #197 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Hmm. At what point does Exxon-Mobil run for office?

In Capitalist America, office run for Exxon-Mobil!

219 CuriousLurker  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:42:35am

re: #214 Killgore Trout

My guess is they'll be neutral yet supportive of him. Let me know what you think about it when you get around to watching it.

Will do. I'm going to try to watch it ASAP lest it disappear.

So you don't know anything about Geras?

220 harrylook  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:42:38am

re: #170 Talking Point Detective

An entirely subjective evaluation - what is accomplishing "something of note?" Would you call anyone who has written a memoir without having met your bar of "accomplishing something of note" a "douchebag?"

Douchbaggery is always subjective. But to answer your question, yes.

If you think that political expediency qualifies a politician as a "douchebag," would you mind listing any politicians that you think aren't "douchebags?"

They are pretty much all douchebags. I find both Romney and Obama to be highly cynical. I don't think either of them believe in anything except getting and staying in power.

Would you mind providing a quote for that - in context?

"I don’t want to be ambiguous about this," he said. "We are going to close Guantanamo and we are going to make sure that the procedures we set up are ones that abide by our Constitution. That is not only the right thing to do but it actually has to be part of our broader national security strategy because we will send a message to the world that we are serious about our values."

221 Decatur Deb  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:42:50am

re: #212 HappyWarrior

Are we one of the few western nation that makes them exempt? I don't know other western nations' church and state policies.

Actually some, like Germany, have systems to support them with taxes.

222 jamesfirecat  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:43:52am

re: #220 harrylook

Douchbaggery is always subjective. But to answer your question, yes.

They are pretty much all douchebags. I find both Romney and Obama to be highly cynical. I don't think either of them believe in anything except getting and staying in power.

"I don’t want to be ambiguous about this," he said. "We are going to close Guantanamo and we are going to make sure that the procedures we set up are ones that abide by our Constitution. That is not only the right thing to do but it actually has to be part of our broader national security strategy because we will send a message to the world that we are serious about our values."

And then congress said a resounding F*** you to that plan, and Barack Obama being bound by the rule of law couldn't do anything about it.

It sucks but why blame a man for things beyond his control?

223 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:44:32am
Chile's hate crime law passes after seven years

Gay rights campaigners celebrated the Senate's vote

The Chilean Congress has approved an anti-discrimination law that assumed added importance after a gay man was killed earlier this year.

The bill cleared its final hurdle with a 25-3 vote in the Senate.

The brutal assault on Daniel Zamudio in March sparked outrage and a fresh debate about hate crimes in Chile.

After Mr Zamudio's death, President Sebastian Pinera put the bill, which had languished in Congress for seven years, on the fast track to approval."

224 Killgore Trout  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:44:43am

re: #219 CuriousLurker

So you don't know anything about Geras?

Nothing. I don't think I've ever heard of him before. Nothing on his wiki page rings a bell either.

225 Decatur Deb  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:44:45am

re: #221 Decatur Deb

Actually some, like Germany, have systems to support them with taxes.

Wiki Link:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

226 Four More Tears  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:45:23am

Fine. He was a teenager. All is forgiven or something.

But to reduce holding someone down and cutting their hair to a "prank" is despicable.

227 HappyWarrior  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:45:36am

re: #225 Decatur Deb

Wiki Link:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Thanks.

228 wrenchwench  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:45:46am

re: #212 HappyWarrior

Are we one of the few western nation that makes them exempt? I don't know other western nations' church and state policies.

Mexico has some fascinating church/state history. A no-longer-current excerpt:

The first major confrontation between the church and the state occurred during the presidency of Benito Juárez (1855-72). The 1855 Juárez Law drastically reduced traditional ecclesiastical privileges. On March 11, 1857, a new constitution was adopted that denied all ecclesiastical entities the right to own real estate and abolished most remaining ecclesiastical privileges. On July 12, 1857, Juárez confiscated all church properties, suppressed all religious orders, and empowered the state governors to designate what buildings could be used for religious services. Mexico's first religious civil war was fought between 1857 and 1860 in reaction to the legislation (see Civil War and the French Intervention, ch. 1).

The constitution of 1917 highlighted and institutionalized many of the nineteenth-century secular reforms. The new constitution included at least five articles that affected all religious groups, regardless of denomination. These articles, which remained in effect until 1992, appeared to preclude any national role for the Roman Catholic Church. Article 3 forbade churches from participating in primary and secondary education. Article 5 prohibited the establishment of religious orders. Article 24 mandated that all religious ceremonies occur within church buildings. Article 27 gave the state ownership of all church buildings.

229 Lidane  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:46:26am

Fiscal responsibility, y'all!

Romney Will Increase Military Spending By $2.1 Trillion With No Plan To Pay For It

230 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:46:43am

re: #212 HappyWarrior

Are we one of the few western nation that makes them exempt? I don't know other western nations' church and state policies.

A lot of other nations have state churches. And I think one reason the US tax exempt status was put in was to pre-empt favortism at the Federal level. I don't believe there is anything explicitly preventing a state from having a specified state religion - and in fact I think a number of them did early on.
(Hmm. A lot of supposition here and a lack of firm facts. My apologies for the laziness in not going and researching before commenting.)

231 CuriousLurker  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:47:05am

re: #224 Killgore Trout

Nothing. I don;t think I've ever heard of him before. Nothing on his wiki page rings a bell either.

Okay, thanks. Now I'm really going back to ji...er...work, yes, that's it, work. //

232 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:47:13am

re: #230 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

A lot of other nations have state churches. And I think one reason the US tax exempt status was put in was to pre-empt favortism at the Federal level. I don't believe there is anything explicitly preventing a state from having a specified state religion - and in fact I think a number of them did early on.
(Hmm. A lot of supposition here and a lack of firm facts. My apologies for the laziness in not going and researching before commenting.)

Maryland was Catholic --no?

233 Kragar  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:47:13am

re: #216 Expand Your Ground

there is no attempt to place a ban on church free speech, the IRS just upholding a law that says they lose their tax-exempt status for engaging in political activity.

That is not repression, it is just fair play.

"HELP, WE'RE BEING REPRESSED! COME AND SEE THE VIOLENCE INHERENT IN THE SYSTEM!"

234 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:47:21am

re: #200 CuriousLurker

Aside from his more odious views, like comparing Israel's actions to the Holocaust, what strikes me about him is his dumbheaded stubbornness. He used to have - maybe still has - a section on his site where he crowed how he proved Elie Wiesel wrong on one point, namely whether he read Kant's Critique of Pure Reason in Yiddish in his youth. Finky managed to show that the book had not yet been translated at that time. However somebody else found that a chapter of the Critique of Practical Reason was available then. Now, anyone with common sense who knows a bit about how memory and witness testimony works would give Wiesel the benefit of doubt on this minor point. Not Finky! He was still convinced this mistake showed Wiesel to be a liar. Which is still more pathetic given how petty the whole issue was.

235 HappyWarrior  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:47:29am

re: #229 Lidane

Fiscal responsibility, y'all!

Romney Will Increase Military Spending By $2.1 Trillion With No Plan To Pay For It

1.) Cut taxes
2.) Raise DoD budget
3.) ??????
4.) Fiscal conservatism.

236 Mattand  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:47:33am

re: #186 Randall Gross

Watching the video, it never fails -- you pin a bigot down with hard facts and the comeback is almost guaranteed to be "some of my best friends are x"...

The author Sam Harris tried a variation of this stunt earlier in the week. He's been calling for the profiling of people at airports who "look Muslim", claiming it is a rational response to fighting terror. He ended his second post with a quote from a guy with an Arabic sounding name who endorsed Harris' views.

This supposedly rational man of science basically supported his bigotry by saying, "See? A person of Arab decent agrees with me, so I can't be prejudiced!" Really fucking sad...

237 CuriousLurker  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:48:36am

re: #234 May Day! May Day!

Thanks for the insight. That helps.

238 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:48:47am

re: #236 mattand

This supposedly rational man of science basically supported his bigotry by saying, "See? A person of Arab decent agrees with me, so I can't be prejudiced!" Really fucking sad...

Some of his best friends are (insert member of ethnic group he has just trashed)

239 Decatur Deb  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:48:51am

re: #230 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

A lot of other nations have state churches. And I think one reason the US tax exempt status was put in was to pre-empt favortism at the Federal level. I don't believe there is anything explicitly preventing a state from having a specified state religion - and in fact I think a number of them did early on.
(Hmm. A lot of supposition here and a lack of firm facts. My apologies for the laziness in not going and researching before commenting.)

An early version of the Florida constitution specifically made it an impediment to office if someone was a preacher.

240 Kragar  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:50:03am

I'd like to see the property taxes on some of those eyesore mega-churches.

241 HappyWarrior  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:50:22am

re: #234 May Day! May Day!

Aside from his more odious views, like comparing Israel's actions to the Holocaust, what strikes me about him is his dumbheaded stubbornness. He used to have - maybe still has - a section on his site where he crowed how he proved Elie Wiesel wrong on one point, namely whether he read Kant's Critique of Pure Reason in Yiddish in his youth. Finky managed to show that the book had not yet been translated at that time. However somebody else found that a chapter of the Critique of Practical Reason was available then. Now, anyone with common sense who knows a bit about how memory and witness testimony works would give Wiesel the benefit of doubt on this minor point. Not Finky! He was still convinced this mistake showed Wiesel to be a liar. Which is still more pathetic given how petty the whole issue was.

That's what he attacked Mr. Wiesel over? What a jerk. Not a fan of his at all.

242 Sionainn  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:50:23am

re: #114 Kragar

Luckily, one of the great thinkers of our time has chosen to share her wisdom:

Bristol Palin Slams Obama For Gay Marriage Position

Ah yes, values, like abstaining from premarital sex and the sins of being an unwed mother for instance, 2 values the Wingnuts champion again and again.

Or that – as great as her friends may be – we know that in general kids do better growing up in a mother/father home. Ideally, fathers help shape their kids’ worldview.

Says the single mother. *huge eye roll*

243 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:52:23am

re: #242 Sionainn

Says the single mother. *huge eye roll*

Yeah, in a perfect world every kid would have a mommy and a daddy who value their marriage and children first.

I'd be happy if every kid had two parents of any sex involved in their lives.

Two dedicated adults are better than 2 fucked-up adults.

244 Interesting Times  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:52:52am

re: #242 Sionainn

Says the single mother. *huge eye roll*

245 Decatur Deb  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:54:28am

re: #243 ggt

Yeah, in a perfect world every kid would have a mommy and a daddy who value their marriage and children first.

I'd be happy if every kid had two parents of any sex involved in their lives.

Two dedicated adults are better than 2 fucked-up adults.

To be really perfect the family wage structure would have to allow one or the other of the parents time to actually raise the kids.

246 Gus  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:54:31am

Holy shit. Wow!

247 Simply Sarah  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:55:00am

re: #243 ggt

Yeah, in a perfect world every kid would have a mommy and a daddy at least two parents who value their marriage and children first.

I'd be happy if every kid had two parents of any sex involved in their lives.

Two dedicated adults are better than 2 fucked-up adults.

I have very little attachment to the idea that the ideal situation is a married mother and a father.

248 jaunte  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:55:02am

re: #240 Kragar

I'd like to see the property taxes on some of those eyesore mega-churches.

Why do you hate charity for the poor?

249 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:55:07am

re: #246 Gus

Holy shit. Wow!

[Embedded content]

Think he'd resurrect the Comstock Laws?

250 Four More Tears  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:55:10am

After putting her actions and words together I can only conclude that Bristol doesn't really care for any kind of marriage...

251 Sionainn  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:55:45am

re: #147 Interesting Times

[Embedded content]

That made me laugh.

252 HappyWarrior  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:55:47am

re: #244 Interesting Times

[Embedded content]

Did she really say that? Anyhow, Bristol's attack on Obama shows she's no better than her mother. I can't imagine Meaghan McCain or Barbara & Jenna Bush doing this.

253 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:56:09am

re: #250 Assemble!

After putting her actions and words together I can only conclude that Bristol doesn't really care for any kind of marriage...

Bristol needs to focus on her kid, and keep her mouth shut until she grows-up.

254 Simply Sarah  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:56:20am

re: #246 Gus

Holy shit. Wow!

[Embedded content]

Oh, you didn't know? Yeah, that was a pretty big thing here for a bit once he realized he couldn't stop gay marriage outright. The law in question eventually was repealed, but it was a headache for a while.

255 HappyWarrior  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:57:01am

re: #246 Gus

Holy shit. Wow!

[Embedded content]

I wish I could be shocked here.

256 jaunte  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:57:04am

re: #246 Gus

"Call me old fashioned, but I don't support gay marriage nor do I support civil unions rights"

257 Kragar  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:57:54am

re: #248 jaunte

Why do you hate charity for the poor?

Are there no prisons? Are there no workhouses?

258 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:58:44am

re: #250 Assemble!

After putting her actions and words together I can only conclude that Bristol doesn't really care for any kind of marriage...

I am of the (albeit unsubstantiated) opinion that she kept the baby because her grizzly mom made it clear that she had no choice in the matter.

And that message became clear to most Americans in 2008: Sarah would say the same thing to your daughter!

I think that a lot of Americans who oppose abortion on principle still want to see it available in the event that their daughter gets knocked up by some no-account loser...

259 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, May 10, 2012 11:59:56am

re: #247 Simply Sarah

I have very little attachment to the idea that the ideal situation is a married mother and a father.

I'm not there yet. But I had a good mother and father and see how each influenced my life. Really, the fact that they were committed to their monogamous commitment and to raising me was the important part.

My point being that we have to do what is best for the child in any given situation and I'd rather have two adults of the same sex that are dedicated to the child than a single parent or divorce situation with dysfunctional hetero parents. Or a Grandma and an Uncle, or whatever.

260 Interesting Times  Thu, May 10, 2012 12:01:33pm
261 Gus  Thu, May 10, 2012 12:02:48pm
262 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Thu, May 10, 2012 12:03:08pm

re: #217 Interesting Times

Holy bad craziness batman o_O

The stoning punishment is not carried out anymore, for technical reasons.

Havn't you heard that there is a stone shortage due to the bad economy? Not everyone can afford to attend a stoning and throw unlimited stones like back in the good old days. Now it seems like only the Rabbis and the well to do can afford stones but then they keep making excuses to not use them! I'm quite simply losing hope of ever seeing a good two hour stoning again, or being able to take my grandchildren to one. It is sad that all they will have is my stories of how it was, without ever being able to see one for themselves.

///

263 Simply Sarah  Thu, May 10, 2012 12:03:14pm

re: #259 ggt

I'm not there yet. But I had a good mother and father and see how each influenced my life. Really, the fact that they were committed to their monogamous commitment and to raising me was the important part.

My point being that we have to do what is best for the child in any given situation and I'd rather have two adults of the same sex that are dedicated to the child than a single parent or divorce situation with dysfunctional hetero parents. Or a Grandma and an Uncle, or whatever.

Well, I agree a stable, responsible family is better than a dysfunctional one for sure. Just to be pedantic, since I enjoy it so, I should also point out that even genetic parents need not be a mother and a father, at least not in my view.

264 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, May 10, 2012 12:03:21pm

re: #260 Interesting Times

[Embedded content]

What is it with male politicans and their hair?

265 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, May 10, 2012 12:04:29pm

re: #263 Simply Sarah

Well, I agree a stable, responsible family is better than a dysfunctional one for sure. Just to be pedantic, since I enjoy it so, I should also point out that even genetic parents need not be a mother and a father, at least not in my view.

Agreed.

G-d has lots of ways to make a family, IMHO

266 Kragar  Thu, May 10, 2012 12:05:43pm

re: #264 ggt

What is it with male politicans and their hair?

Speaking of hair; The Avengers HS yearbook photos

Image: homework-class-test-school-of-fail-the-avengers-yearbook.jpg

Jeremy Renner, sporting a mullet, working it, working it

267 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, May 10, 2012 12:06:14pm

I have two LGBT friends who have decided to be great uncles. Makes me sad sometimes because they would be fantastic parents and there are so many kids that need parents.

268 darthstar  Thu, May 10, 2012 12:06:16pm
269 darthstar  Thu, May 10, 2012 12:09:37pm

Romney's team is being run by Obama plants.

TODD: Will you guys campaign on this, campaign on this issue of marriage?

GILLESPIE: Sure. I think it’s an important issue for people and it engenders strong feelings on both sides. I think it’s important to be respectful in how we talk about our differences, but the fact is that’s a significant difference in November.

Nothing else can explain such stupidity on the Romney campaign's part besides sabotage.

270 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Thu, May 10, 2012 12:10:05pm

later all!

Have to take Brat Puppy for booster shots.

I will leave you with some homework:

needs caption

271 jaunte  Thu, May 10, 2012 12:10:22pm

re: #269 darthstar

Ed Gillespie is very mole-like.

272 HappyWarrior  Thu, May 10, 2012 12:11:18pm

re: #268 darthstar

[Embedded content]

Need to see that movie, amuses me knowing that the female lead is Lucielle Bluth from Arrested Development.

273 dragonfire1981  Thu, May 10, 2012 12:12:02pm

re: #272 HappyWarrior

Need to see that movie, amuses me knowing that the female lead is Lucielle Bluth from Arrested Development.

Highly recommend. One of the best Superhero movies I've ever seen. Well worth the ticket price.

274 Kragar  Thu, May 10, 2012 12:15:22pm

re: #273 dragonfire1981

Highly recommend. One of the best Superhero movies I've ever seen. Well worth the ticket price.

"Play Misty for me" had super heroes in it?

275 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, May 10, 2012 12:16:15pm

re: #246 Gus

Holy shit. Wow!

(insert standard Romney defense disclaimer)
But that was ____ years ago. It cannot possibly be applicable to the current campaign to replace Obama.

(end standard disclaimer)
/

276 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, May 10, 2012 12:16:24pm

re: #273 dragonfire1981

Highly recommend. One of the best Superhero movies I've ever seen. Well worth the ticket price.

I never read superhero comics as a kid. Never got the hang of the movies.

277 dragonfire1981  Thu, May 10, 2012 12:19:06pm

re: #274 Kragar

"Play Misty for me" had super heroes in it?

oops, got my movies mixed up.

278 darthstar  Thu, May 10, 2012 12:19:16pm
279 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, May 10, 2012 12:20:47pm

re: #278 darthstar

We intentionally asked not to be told the gender of our first kid, we painted the baby's room in yellow and purple.

280 HappyWarrior  Thu, May 10, 2012 12:21:33pm

re: #277 dragonfire1981

oops, got my movies mixed up.

Heh no worries. I want to see that one too.

281 darthstar  Thu, May 10, 2012 12:22:01pm

re: #279 Expand Your Ground

We intentionally asked not to be told the gender of our first kid, we painted the baby's room in yellow and purple.

You gave birth to a Minnesota Viking? Cool!

282 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, May 10, 2012 12:22:33pm

re: #270 ggt

later all!

Have to take Brat Puppy for booster shots.

I will leave you with some homework:

needs caption

Cat 1 (brown): I said "Pull!"

Cat 2 (white): He said "Pull". Why haven't the small rodents been released?

Cat 3 (black): I can't reach the (deleted) lever. Give me a second here.

283 HappyWarrior  Thu, May 10, 2012 12:23:18pm

I'm still among the few in my generation that hasn't read any Harry Potter books.

284 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, May 10, 2012 12:24:26pm

re: #283 HappyWarrior

I'm still among the few in my generation that hasn't read any Harry Potter books.

I read the first one and wasn't impressed. Saw the last movie (circumstances) and wasn't that impressed. So I see no reason to view or read the media inbetween.

285 Kragar  Thu, May 10, 2012 12:24:42pm

re: #270 ggt

later all!

Have to take Brat Puppy for booster shots.

I will leave you with some homework:

needs caption

"These photos of her pole dancing in college effectively ended her run for Senator"

286 darthstar  Thu, May 10, 2012 12:25:49pm

Heh...

Image: 305512_394491407261814_171771132867177_1164303_134314066_n.jpg

287 darthstar  Thu, May 10, 2012 12:27:30pm

re: #284 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

I read the first one and wasn't impressed. Saw the last movie (circumstances) and wasn't that impressed. So I see no reason to view or read the media inbetween.

The books improve in quality and depth as they go along (which makes sense, as Rowling's story matured as well. The first is definitely a kid's book...by the time you get to 4 or 5, they're not kids books anymore. I recommend breezing through 2 and 3 and then enjoying the last three books on their own merit.

288 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, May 10, 2012 12:27:47pm

Revolving Title:
Those who are tardy do not get the fruit cup.

:)

289 Kragar  Thu, May 10, 2012 12:28:57pm

re: #288 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Revolving Title:
Those who are tardy do not get the fruit cup.

:)

Youtube Video
290 HappyWarrior  Thu, May 10, 2012 12:29:18pm

re: #284 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

I read the first one and wasn't impressed. Saw the last movie (circumstances) and wasn't that impressed. So I see no reason to view or read the media inbetween.

I think it's because I am not in to the genre. My friends look at me weird when I say Star Wars does nothing for me. I like realistic stuff I guess.

291 Kragar  Thu, May 10, 2012 12:31:41pm

re: #287 darthstar

The books improve in quality and depth as they go along (which makes sense, as Rowling's story matured as well. The first is definitely a kid's book...by the time you get to 4 or 5, they're not kids books anymore. I recommend breezing through 2 and 3 and then enjoying the last three books on their own merit.

And everyone knows the real hero of the story was Neville Longbottom.

292 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, May 10, 2012 12:31:52pm

re: #283 HappyWarrior

I'm still among the few in my generation that hasn't read any Harry Potter books.

Eh, give'm a try someday. They aren't the greatest thing in literature but they're better written than most popular fiction and it's a reasonably interesting story. I do think she got better as a writer as she went along, too.

293 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, May 10, 2012 12:32:09pm

re: #290 HappyWarrior

I think it's because I am not in to the genre. My friends look at me weird when I say Star Wars does nothing for me. I like realistic stuff I guess.

I have friends who are Star Wars geeks, comics (Superman/Batman) geeks, and even a few D&D geeks. I stick out among them for being a military history geek and having more than passing knowledge about basic heraldry.

294 funky chicken  Thu, May 10, 2012 12:33:13pm

Courtney Massengale

295 Kragar  Thu, May 10, 2012 12:33:14pm

My youngest child and I have decided to start watching Farscape, one episode a night.

296 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, May 10, 2012 12:33:23pm

re: #291 Kragar

And everyone knows the real hero of the story was Neville Longbottom.

It's a good argument to make. His character's growth is perhaps the greatest of any in the series and is the most realistic.

297 darthstar  Thu, May 10, 2012 12:35:08pm
298 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, May 10, 2012 12:37:25pm

re: #294 funky chicken

Courtney Massengale

Interesting. Never heard of the book referenced. But I've read the two books mentioned at the end of the article. (_Red Badge of Courage_ and _All Quiet on the Western Front_.)

299 Kragar  Thu, May 10, 2012 12:37:36pm

re: #296 William Barnett-Lewis

It's a good argument to make. His character's growth is perhaps the greatest of any in the series and is the most realistic.

Image: bd64d815-7d5e-4bbf-9fb6-308a7be43866.jpg

300 lawhawk  Thu, May 10, 2012 12:40:24pm

re: #299 Kragar

Puny god.

Youtube Video
301 funky chicken  Thu, May 10, 2012 12:41:21pm

re: #298 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

It's an easy read and will give you a decent view of some facets of the military mind. When I was watching Romney in the 2008 debates, I thought of Courtney Massengale every time Mitt spoke about the military or national security. Cold, calculating, clueless, etc.

303 wrenchwench  Thu, May 10, 2012 12:41:54pm

re: #289 Kragar

[Embedded content]

I always wondered where that one came from.

304 darthstar  Thu, May 10, 2012 12:43:06pm

Sorry...but if you're going after Obama's daughters, you're no longer off limits Bristol.

305 Kragar  Thu, May 10, 2012 12:43:19pm

re: #300 lawhawk

Puny god.

[Embedded content]

Allow me to respond with a turtle having sex with a shoe

Youtube Video
306 darthstar  Thu, May 10, 2012 12:44:04pm

re: #302 jaunte

CNN's Erick Erickson Dismisses Reported Romney Bullying: "Romney Cut A Hippy's Hair"

CNN pays for its bigots. Big surprise.

307 b_sharp  Thu, May 10, 2012 12:44:34pm

re: #305 Kragar

Allow me to respond with a turtle having sex with a shoe

[Embedded content]

I know women who make that sound.

308 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, May 10, 2012 12:45:40pm

re: #307 Cathartic Expression

I know women who make that sound.

and have the same facial expression...

309 b_sharp  Thu, May 10, 2012 12:46:17pm

re: #306 darthstar

CNN pays for its bigots. Big surprise.

Why do so many on the right completely miss the point?

310 jaunte  Thu, May 10, 2012 12:46:45pm

re: #306 darthstar

Hard to believe it's 2012 and people like Erickson are still talking about 'hippies.'

311 darthstar  Thu, May 10, 2012 12:47:33pm

Romney campaign is reaching out to former high school classmates to come to his defense...so far, that isn't working so well for Mitt...

One former classmate and old friend of Romney’s – who refused to be identified by name – said there are “a lot of guys” who went to Cranbrook who have “really negative memories” of Romney’s behavior in the dorms, behavior this classmate describes as “evil” and “like Lord of the Flies.”

The classmate believes Romney is lying when he claims to not remember it.

“It makes these fellows [who have owned up to it] very remorseful. For [Romney] not to remember it? It doesn’t ring true. How could the fellow with the scissors forget it?” the former classmate said.

Romney has the conch! Everyone should be quiet!

312 Kragar  Thu, May 10, 2012 12:47:35pm

re: #307 Cathartic Expression

I know women who make that sound.

My wife says I am forbidden from making that sound at any time.

313 dragonath  Thu, May 10, 2012 12:48:50pm

re: #302 jaunte

♫ ♫ RRRROOOOMBOT the he-man who cut a hippie's hair ♪♫

I love it... makes them ALL look like assholes. So much for individualism!

314 funky chicken  Thu, May 10, 2012 12:48:54pm

re: #53 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You

This whole "what Mitt Romney did at 17" thing contains very nearly an equal amount of fail as the recent Breitbrats supposed blockbuster "Obama hugging a radical professor" thing did. NO ONE outside of the circle of already deeply committed political partisans is going to give a shit, no matter how horribly damaging it may seem to you from your particular viewpoint you aren't going to get this to sell to the general public, your just not.

What, we don't have dozens of real and current issues and statements to attack him on? We have to dig up what he did as a teenager in school?

Sorry, but I disagree strongly. This episode shows Romney to be a heartless bully. Bullying and anti-bullying efforts have been huge in the news the past few years, so this story will have to hurt Romney's efforts to seem like a nice-guy dedicated family man, blah blah. Suburban soccer moms are going to find this behavior repulsive. Will it change their vote--maybe not, but it will make them far less enthusiastic in support of the guy. It will also perhaps complicate the VP selection. Picking another "bully" like Chris Christie could be disastrous.

315 funky chicken  Thu, May 10, 2012 12:50:23pm

re: #311 darthstar

Romney campaign is reaching out to former high school classmates to come to his defense...so far, that isn't working so well for Mitt...

Romney has the conch! Everyone should be quiet!

And there ya go. I wonder how long democrats have known about this?

316 b_sharp  Thu, May 10, 2012 12:50:27pm

re: #312 Kragar

My wife says I am forbidden from making that sound at any time.

Not even in the shower?

317 jaunte  Thu, May 10, 2012 12:52:21pm

re: #311 darthstar

One of Mitt Romney’s closest friends and a high school classmate has been asked by the Romney campaign to come out and offer “supporting remarks” in defense of the candidate

"If you had been there and seen his hair in person, you would agree he really had it coming."

318 darthstar  Thu, May 10, 2012 12:52:32pm

re: #315 funky chicken

And there ya go. I wonder how long democrats have known about this?

The Romney campaign gave the name of the classmate to the press so he could defend Mitt...and the guy's basically trashing him. I guess 'old friend' is an overstatement.

319 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, May 10, 2012 12:53:41pm

re: #318 darthstar

The Romney campaign gave the name of the classmate to the press so he could defend Mitt...and the guy's basically trashing him. I guess 'old friend' is an overstatement.

"He was a liberal plant of the Obama Administration" in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1...
/(half)

320 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, May 10, 2012 12:55:24pm

re: #53 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You

you aren't going to get this to sell to the general public, your just not.

How do you know?

321 darthstar  Thu, May 10, 2012 12:55:38pm

re: #314 funky chicken

One could say that this is a distraction, but the fact remains...Mitt Romney is now spending valuable campaign time trying to prove he hasn't always been an asshole...and failing.

322 Interesting Times  Thu, May 10, 2012 12:55:43pm

re: #311 darthstar

Romney campaign is reaching out to former high school classmates to come to his defense...so far, that isn't working so well for Mitt...

323 Kragar  Thu, May 10, 2012 12:57:32pm

Nothing says you aren't a bully like asking the guys who helped you pin another student so you could haze him to stand up for you.

324 Eventual Carrion  Thu, May 10, 2012 12:59:27pm

re: #294 funky chicken

Courtney Massengale

He was a douche.

325 b_sharp  Thu, May 10, 2012 12:59:44pm

re: #319 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

"He was a liberal plant of the Obama Administration" in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1...
/(half)

Youtube Video
326 dragonath  Thu, May 10, 2012 1:00:42pm

This could have been so avoidable, but Romney is trapped by people like Erickson. The right really has no message discipline.

327 HappyWarrior  Thu, May 10, 2012 1:01:25pm

re: #302 jaunte

CNN's Erick Erickson Dismisses Reported Romney Bullying: "Romney Cut A Hippy's Hair"

Yeah that's all it was. Now if the guy had suggested the rich pay more in taxes..........

328 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, May 10, 2012 1:05:29pm

re: #302 jaunte

CNN's Erick Erickson Dismisses Reported Romney Bullying: "Romney Cut A Hippy's Hair"

Tell you what, Erick, Son of Shiteater, how about we hold you down and shave your fat ass :D


CNN, gotta love it

329 sagehen  Thu, May 10, 2012 1:05:30pm

re: #279 Expand Your Ground

We intentionally asked not to be told the gender of our first kid, we painted the baby's room in yellow and purple.

That's... sort of disgusting actually.

What's wrong with a nice green? Or earth tones?

330 Kragar  Thu, May 10, 2012 1:05:35pm

re: #327 HappyWarrior

Yeah that's all it was. Now if the guy had suggested the rich pay more in taxes...

He said, "The poor ain't so bad."
"The poor ain't so bad?" Huh, you're lucky he's still alive!

331 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, May 10, 2012 1:05:53pm

re: #310 jaunte

Hard to believe it's 2012 and people like Erickson are still talking about 'hippies.'

Backwards idiot is backwards

332 sagehen  Thu, May 10, 2012 1:06:41pm

re: #281 darthstar

You gave birth to a Minnesota Viking? Cool!

Not even close. It was a Laker. (or, y'know, a puddler. Since all babies are.)

333 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, May 10, 2012 1:06:46pm

re: #329 sagehen

That's... sort of disgusting actually.

What's wrong with a nice green? Or earth tones?

I like colors more than earth tones *_*

334 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, May 10, 2012 1:07:46pm

re: #318 darthstar

The Romney campaign gave the name of the classmate to the press so he could defend Mitt...and the guy's basically trashing him. I guess 'old friend' is an overstatement.

Revenge is best served cold

335 gwangung  Thu, May 10, 2012 1:19:50pm

re: #318 darthstar

The Romney campaign gave the name of the classmate to the press so he could defend Mitt...and the guy's basically trashing him. I guess 'old friend' is an overstatement.

You know, this sort of thing is giving the incident more legs. It's one thing if they can spit it as if it's an isolated incident, but the number of old classmates who aren't supporting Romney just doesn't look good....

336 makeitstop  Thu, May 10, 2012 1:25:53pm

Once an asshole, always an asshole.

Mitt Romney clashed with a state commission tasked with helping LGBT youth at risk for bullying and suicide throughout his term as Massachusetts governor over funding and its participation in a pride parade. He eventually abolished the group altogether.

337 HappyWarrior  Thu, May 10, 2012 1:31:32pm

re: #336 makeitstop

Once an asshole, always an asshole.

What can we say about Mitt Romney other than he's a total jerk.

338 [deleted]  Thu, May 10, 2012 1:41:02pm
339 Mich-again  Thu, May 10, 2012 1:41:13pm

Just about everyone knew some asshole kid in their high school who acted like a jerk and bullied kids around and knew they could get away with it because who their daddy was. His apology means nothing now.

340 socialrepublican  Thu, May 10, 2012 1:43:20pm

re: #200 CuriousLurker

Which reminds me, is anyone familiar with Norman Geras?

He's an retired academic (Political science, I believe) and a leading left blogger in the UK. He was one of the leading lights of the Euston Manifesto, a document that tried to define a doctrine of international intervention from a left wing perspective. He's done a lot of work on legal international norms and genocide. He would claim to be a Marxist, though others (not I) would disagree. I think, back in the sixties/seventies, he was of the Euro-communist persuasion i.e. legally and electorally seeking social democratic advances whilst still preaching the need for post-Capitalism. I heard that he was quite involved in the anti-apartheid movement and the struggles over African decolonization (he was born in Zimbabwe). Now, I think he is of the Francis Wheen school of Marxism, that see KM as part of a democratic radical european tradition.

341 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, May 10, 2012 2:02:49pm

re: #87 harrylook

Stupid stuff you did in high school is now fair game? Shit. I'll never be prez...

BTW, if this is relevant, then so are Obama's college/law school transcripts.

Getting a D in statistics, or whatever it is we imagine he did, isn't a moral failing.

342 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, May 10, 2012 2:15:09pm

re: #133 May Day! May Day!

What can you expect from a Kahane fan?

Charles aware?

343 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, May 10, 2012 2:20:08pm

re: #230 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

A lot of other nations have state churches.

A friend of the family's once called up the proper authorities to leave her church in Germany. You have to do this through the state, otherwise they get tax money from having you as a member.

The nice young man on the other end of the line said, "Yes, ma'am, I can send you the paperwork, but I am required to inform you that you will go to hell."

Government workers in Germany have a sense of humor, apparently.

344 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, May 10, 2012 2:25:55pm

re: #258 Expand Your Ground

I am of the (albeit unsubstantiated) opinion that she kept the baby because her grizzly mom made it clear that she had no choice in the matter.

And that message became clear to most Americans in 2008: Sarah would say the same thing to your daughter!

I think that a lot of Americans who oppose abortion on principle still want to see it available in the event that their daughter gets knocked up by some no-account loser...

Not just that Sarah would say the same to my daughter, but that Sarah would call my daughter a slut and blame my lousy liberal parenting, while insisting that everyone treat her family with respect.

345 CuriousLurker  Thu, May 10, 2012 4:30:51pm

re: #340 socialrepublican

He's an retired academic (Political science, I believe) and a leading left blogger in the UK. He was one of the leading lights of the Euston Manifesto, a document that tried to define a doctrine of international intervention from a left wing perspective. He's done a lot of work on legal international norms and genocide. He would claim to be a Marxist, though others (not I) would disagree. I think, back in the sixties/seventies, he was of the Euro-communist persuasion i.e. legally and electorally seeking social democratic advances whilst still preaching the need for post-Capitalism. I heard that he was quite involved in the anti-apartheid movement and the struggles over African decolonization (he was born in Zimbabwe). Now, I think he is of the Francis Wheen school of Marxism, that see KM as part of a democratic radical european tradition.

Thank you, that's very helpful.

346 Ming  Thu, May 10, 2012 5:00:32pm

Romney's non-apology speaks volumes about his lack of character. I would admire him if he said something like: "Omigod! What a sad, terrible thing! If I was there, I'm deeply ashamed. We should all work to reduce bullying. Since young gay people are often targets of bullies, this incident especially bothers me. No one should be bullied for any reason. I will work for the rest of my life to rise above this horrible event." Which is conspicuously NOT what Romney is saying today.

This reminds me of Ron Paul's non-apology for his racist newsletters. With both Paul and Romney, their past behavior was bad enough. And it's COMPOUNDED today by how they address their past. With their non-apologies, or not-much-apologies, both Paul and Romney have told us all we need to know about their characters, today. I don't admire either person in the slightest.

347 Ming  Thu, May 10, 2012 5:11:13pm

re: #302 jaunte

CNN's Erick Erickson Dismisses Reported Romney Bullying: "Romney Cut A Hippy's Hair"

Wow. There are no words. As I mentioned in a previous comment, the way people are reacting TODAY (to this decades-ago incident) is at least as revealing of their character as the incident itself, horrific as the incident was.

I assume that there are 17-year-olds who are being tried as adults for similar violent incidents.

Republicans should ask themselves why they hate Obama so much. Romney doesn't need a propaganda TV network to make people dislike him. No one has any idea what Romney's position is on any issue. All we know is that he's a bad person.

348 smashin grab  Thu, May 10, 2012 5:25:15pm

willards a trust fund privileged baby. hes beyond having a silver spoon. hes a sociopath, with no feeling for anyone else pain, and a narcissistic personality disorder, with a pathological bag of lying on the side.... he is the one percent.

i wonder how much stuff will be coming out before the convention. looks like willy is in for a shitstorm.

349 Flavia  Thu, May 10, 2012 9:33:22pm

re: #87 harrylook

Stupid stuff you did in high school is now fair game? Shit. I'll never be prez...

BTW, if this is relevant, then so are Obama's college/law school transcripts.

Wrong for many reasons - the main one being that Obama's grades have only to do with Obama, while Romney's attack on another person concerns his character - but there are two facts to be considered:

a) college transcripts are, & always have been, private (if you know anything specific about any previous president or candidate, it's because the candidate told us or the records were leaked).

b) Obama graduated publicly with honors from Harvard. This is a public act, with a very obvious indication of just how high his grades were.

So if you still insist that you need to see his transcripts, knowing what his grade point minimum had to have been, then you are giving yourself away as either a conspiracy theorist with absolutely nothing to go on, or just not very bright yourself.

350 [deleted]  Fri, May 11, 2012 7:18:09am
351 [deleted]  Fri, May 11, 2012 7:25:19am
352 harrylook  Fri, May 11, 2012 8:57:49am

re: #349 Flavia

how do we know he graduated with honors if we don't see the transcripts? what did 'honors' mean when he graduated? top 10%? top 30%? top 50%?

see, I don't know he was a good student anywhere b/c I've seen no evidence. and I'm not inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt. that makes me either crazy or stupid, eh?

btw, transcripts aren't the end-all and be-all of evaluating a candidate for president, obviously. there's just a strong whiff of hypocrisy in asking tough questions about romney as a teenager, but never daring to ask any questions about obama's past and what it says about his character or fitness for office.

353 efuseakay  Fri, May 11, 2012 8:58:27am

What would be interesting... if this isn't the only incident of assault Romney took part in... how many more of these incidences could we hear about...

354 sagehen  Sat, May 12, 2012 8:48:34am

re: #352 harrylook

how do we know he graduated with honors if we don't see the transcripts? what did 'honors' mean when he graduated? top 10%? top 30%? top 50%?

see, I don't know he was a good student anywhere b/c I've seen no evidence. and I'm not inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt. that makes me either crazy or stupid, eh?

Seriously? Have you never known anybody who went to Law School?

Being named to Law Review isn't some arbitrary "popular kids" pick, it's the top 10% of the class. Then the students on Law Review choose their own president, and they choose him. The first black HLR president was newsworthy enough for the New York Times to write a profile of him in 1992.

The way we know he graduated Magna Cum Laude is because it's printed on the "Class of ..." lists and spoken aloud at the ceremony, as graduates cross the stage to get their diplomas. It's for the top 10% of the class. Any and every Harvard grad can go to the alumni association and get lists of class rankings.

also, Harvard Law uses blind grading in all courses; randomly generated code numbers instead of names are on the essay bluebooks, nobody (including the professor) knows until grading is complete who they belong to, so there is no possibility of a prof's personal opinion about a student affecting their evaluation of that student's work.

355 harrylook  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:08:39pm

re: #354 sagehen

I went to law school and know exactly what it takes to get on law review. Someone else is impressed by his being the "first african-american editor." Becoming editor IS a popularity contest. I can assure you the choice of Obama for editor was not based upon his prolific note writing. I think he wrote all of one article. I'm sure there was something "unprecedented" about the article....

As to honors, again, this being the Obama Fan Club, no one will care to note the truth of the matter that you are dead wrong about honors at Harvard. [Link: www.nytimes.com...]
According to the NYT, during Obama's time there, the vast majority of Law School grads "earned" honors. LOL. Never let the facts get in the way of your undying love for Obama though. He's the greatest.

356 harrylook  Tue, May 15, 2012 1:09:19pm

dinged you down for making up facts

357 Obdicut  Tue, May 15, 2012 2:05:48pm

re: #355 harrylook

Cum laude and magna cum laude are different things.


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