Derbyshire: ‘White Supremacist’ Is ‘Not Bad Semantically’

A white supremacist by any other name
Wingnuts • Views: 40,565

Here’s John Derbyshire in his new far right home at VDARE, comfortable among the paleoconservatives, finally free to admit he’s pretty OK with being labeled a “White Supremacist.”

vdare.com occupies a corner of the non-Conservatism Inc. spectrum, though, and publishes commentary from other corners thereof, and it would be nice to have a definitive name for the whole shebang—something a little less defined-by-exclusion than “non-Conservatism Inc.”

“Alternative Right” has been snaffled by Richard Spencer, all good luck to him. “Paleoconservative” has come to have a whiff of incense and cassocks about it, at least to me. I have tried to float “Oppositional Right,” but it’s a bit of a mouthful.

The enemies of conservatism are eager to supply their own nomenclature. “White Supremacist” seems to be their current favorite. It is meant maliciously, of course, to bring up images of fire-hoses, attack dogs, pick handles, and segregated lunch counters—to imply that conservatives, especially non-mainstream conservatives, are cruel people with dark thoughts.

Leaving aside the intended malice, I actually think “White Supremacist” is not bad semantically. White supremacy, in the sense of a society in which key decisions are made by white Europeans, is one of the better arrangements History has come up with. There have of course been some blots on the record, but I don’t see how it can be denied that net-net, white Europeans have made a better job of running fair and stable societies than has any other group.

I didn’t link to the article, by the way, because VDARE is currently trying to raise money to spread their xenophobic message, and all incoming links are redirected to a fundraising page. I didn’t want to subject you to that.

(h/t: Silvio.)

Jump to bottom

445 comments
1 Dark_Falcon  Sat, May 12, 2012 6:47:53pm

He reminds me a good bit of Rodan AKA Dorkus: Like Dorkus, Derb was loosed from the standards that restrained him after he got the boot and promptly let his freak flag fly. Both are also haters who aren't as smart as they think they are.

2 Mich-again  Sat, May 12, 2012 6:49:20pm
There have of course been some blots on the record, but I don’t see how it can be denied that net-net, white Europeans have made a better job of running fair and stable societies than has any other group.

You know, other than centuries of war and an occasional genocide here and there..

3 Dark_Falcon  Sat, May 12, 2012 6:52:06pm

re: #2 Mich-again

You know, other than centuries of war and an occasional genocide here and there..

At least they weren't running around naked eating berries and each other like the {deleted}s!

/VDARE Reader

4 Ming  Sat, May 12, 2012 6:54:27pm

It's hard to believe this is the 21st century, and some people consider skin color to be really, really important. What's next? Eye color? I can see it now: "people with blue eyes have made a better job of running fair and stable societies."

5 Mich-again  Sat, May 12, 2012 6:57:39pm

If he is still pondering a title for his political alliance, I suggest Republiklan.

6 MittDoesNotCompute  Sat, May 12, 2012 7:01:32pm

A repost from downstairs:

What a racist prick.

I can imagine that had Derbyshire had been born a couple of decades earlier, he'd could have been a muckety-muck in the White Citizens' Council (the uptown Klan).

Let it all hang out, John...

7 wrenchwench  Sat, May 12, 2012 7:05:30pm

Tomorrow is the birthday of Stevland Hardaway Morris. I'd rather live in his world than in Derbyshire's.

Youtube Video
8 Kragar  Sat, May 12, 2012 7:06:28pm
White supremacy, in the sense of a society in which key decisions are made by white Europeans, is one of the better arrangements History has come up with.

Yeah, look at the golden age of peace, harmony, and prosperity that Europe has produced throughout its history.
/

10 Kragar  Sat, May 12, 2012 7:10:11pm

See, the one problem they have when talking about white supremacy is none of them ever live up to the ideal image. They all look like creepy pasty guys whose families make sure the kids aren't left alone with.

11 teleskiguy  Sat, May 12, 2012 7:10:35pm

Reading Derbyshire's swill makes me want to puke, then take a shower a la Ace Ventura when he finds out Finkle is Einhorn.

And National Review aired his shit for years.

To hell with these kinds of conservatives! When is the American right going to clean up house?!?

12 Digital Display  Sat, May 12, 2012 7:13:43pm

Well John..Sounds like something That rang out from Central Europe in the 30's and 40's..
Programming note..
We are about 35 minutes away from Game 7 with the Lakers..
If the Lakers lose it will be like waking up with a hang-over in Vegas with Megan Fox realizing you just got married and she didn't sign a pre-nup.
If the Lakers win it will be like waking up sober in Reno remembering you got married to Rosanne Barr and she did sign a pre-nup.

13 jamesfirecat  Sat, May 12, 2012 7:18:15pm

re: #11 teleskiguy

Reading Derbyshire's swill makes me want to puke, then take a shower a la Ace Ventura when he finds out Finkle is Einhorn.

And National Review aired his shit for years.

To hell with these kinds of conservatives! When is the American right going to clean up house?!?

As soon as they discover they have alienated 60 percent of America. They will refuse to get better so long as they remain a viable political party. DF makes a good barometer for these things. When he becomes so disgusted with his party that he will vote democrat, they are nearing rock bottom.

14 Targetpractice  Sat, May 12, 2012 7:20:32pm

re: #13 jamesfirecat

As soon as they discover they have alienated 60 percent of America. They will refuse to get better so long as they remain a viable political party. DF makes a good barometer for these things. When he becomes so disgusted with his party that he will vote democrat, they are nearing rock bottom.

*sigh* Why do you always ask the impossible?

//

15 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, May 12, 2012 7:28:43pm
The enemies of conservatism are eager to supply their own nomenclature. “White Supremacist” seems to be their current favorite. It is meant maliciously, of course, to bring up images of fire-hoses, attack dogs, pick handles, and segregated lunch counters—to imply that conservatives, especially non-mainstream conservatives, are cruel people with dark thoughts.

This is actually how most liberals view conservatism because we noticed a long time ago that the conservative movement from the beginning (see Buckley, William F.) was just chocked full of racists and bigots. Are the so-called normal conservatives really just now noticing that you picked up the old racist that used to be called Dixiecrats?

Or is it only important to you now that demographic changes make it more difficult for you to win elections? Forgive me but I'm having a hard time feeling sorry for normal conservatives. You reap what you sow.

16 Tigger2005  Sat, May 12, 2012 7:42:37pm

"Some blots on the record" indeed.

I'm willing to stipulate that European civilization helped bring about a lot of social progress. But what does color have to do with that? Europe's success was due largely to a stable climate and a series of happy historial accidents (like the preservation of Greek learning by Islamic societies, and the failure of the Mongols to invade). It had nothing to do with skin color or with any inherent mental/physical superiority on the part of Europeans.

17 Lidane  Sat, May 12, 2012 7:45:20pm

re: #11 teleskiguy

To hell with these kinds of conservatives! When is the American right going to clean up house?!?

Not for the foreseeable future. We might have a second Obama administration and the right needs these people to gin up outrage for fundraising.

18 Dark_Falcon  Sat, May 12, 2012 7:45:39pm

re: #16 Tigger2005

"Some blots on the record" indeed.

I'm willing to stipulate that European civilization helped bring about a lot of social progress. But what does color have to do with that? Europe's success was due largely to a stable climate and a series of happy historial accidents (like the preservation of Greek learning by Islamic societies, and the failure of the Mongols to invade). It had nothing to do with skin color or with any inherent mental/physical superiority on the part of Europeans.

Shush! Don't tell Derbyshire that, or you'll ring his Bell Curve!

19 sagehen  Sat, May 12, 2012 7:57:17pm

re: #16 Tigger2005

"Some blots on the record" indeed.

I'm willing to stipulate that European civilization helped bring about a lot of social progress. But what does color have to do with that? Europe's success was due largely to a stable climate and a series of happy historial accidents (like the preservation of Greek learning by Islamic societies, and the failure of the Mongols to invade). It had nothing to do with skin color or with any inherent mental/physical superiority on the part of Europeans.

A lot of it is also due to The Plague -- when 1/3 of the population died they couldn't be pursuing Crusades anymore, and labor shortages led to the rise of specialized guilds that could command a fair price for their work (UNIONS OMG!!).

20 freetoken  Sat, May 12, 2012 7:59:21pm

re: #4 Ming

It's hard to believe this is the 21st century, and some people consider skin color to be really, really important. ...

Ahh, but it's more than skin color. They are much more sophisticated than that. They've spun an entire epistemological web for themselves in which to trap their own minds.

21 Lidane  Sat, May 12, 2012 8:05:46pm

re: #4 Ming

It's hard to believe this is the 21st century, and some people consider skin color to be really, really important. What's next? Eye color? I can see it now: "people with blue eyes have made a better job of running fair and stable societies."

Oh, they've moved beyond just skin color. They've created a whole new level of bullshit to justify their bigotry in the form of The Bell Curve and its version of scientific racism.

They also got really good at using coded language to mask their racism. They don't talk about black people in the ghetto anymore. Now it's "urban blight" or something along those lines. Change the group they're talking about and there's some coded version of it they use in political ads and talking points.

22 teleskiguy  Sat, May 12, 2012 8:06:32pm

My 666th comment has pushed the karma to 1,000.

[[[ RINGING BELLS, BALLOONS, STREAMERS, CONFETTI ]]]

go nuggets

23 Dark_Falcon  Sat, May 12, 2012 8:06:52pm

re: #19 sagehen

Guilds were a mixed bag. They were often a good deal for those who belonged to them, but if you weren't born into them you were often out of luck as far as entering. And this often meant you could not be part of that profession at all. They also resisted technological advances that threaten the jobs of their members, which sometimes retarded progress.

24 Interesting Times  Sat, May 12, 2012 8:06:53pm

re: #20 freetoken

Speaking of minds being trapped, I'm 99% sure there's a hell of a lot more to this story that was told: Oil Boom Fueling Fortunes in Kansas

From Pennsylvania and North Dakota to Texas, horizontal drilling and hydraulic fracturing are quickly turning the U.S. into an oil superpower. By some estimates, 2 trillion barrels of oil are waiting to be drilled -- nearly twice the reserves in the Middle East and North Africa.

The newer techniques can produce as much as 10 times more oil than a traditional well. Horizontal drilling works by digging 5,000 feet into the earth, then a mile across in several directions.

Is this related to that "kerogen" thing you mentioned in a prior thread?

25 freetoken  Sat, May 12, 2012 8:20:09pm

re: #24 Interesting Times

It's part of a mass delusion that unfortunately isn't limited to the wingnuts. American's refuse to believe that they can't have everything they desire, so we keep telling ourselves these kind of stories to convince us we are superior to everybody else.

Yes, in part the delusion is over kerogen, but also the advent of high priced oil making, finally, profitable high-tech drilling, where holes are drilled in multiple directions for long distances, for example.

So besides confusing kerogen (Colorado), tar (Alberta) and real petroleum (a liquid made up of many different hydrocarbons), what goes on is that in our supposedly capitalistic society many Americans think like Michele Bachmann - that somehow the law of supply and demand doesn't work.

IOW, if we simply wish hard enough we can have all the cheap gasoline we could ever want... if only those nasty environmentalists wouldn't get in the way.

26 Kragar  Sat, May 12, 2012 8:29:09pm

Florida woman sentenced to 20 years in controversial warning shot case

Saying he had no discretion under state law, a judge sentenced a Jacksonville, Florida, woman to 20 years in prison Friday for firing a warning shot in an effort to scare off her abusive husband.

Marissa Alexander unsuccessfully tried to use Florida's controversial "stand your ground" law to derail the prosecution, but a jury in March convicted her of aggravated assault after just 12 minutes of deliberation.

The case, which was prosecuted by the same state attorney who is handling the Trayvon Martin case, has gained the attention of civil rights leaders who say the African-American woman was persecuted because of her race.

After the sentencing, Rep. Corrine Brown confronted State Attorney Angela Corey in the hallway, accusing her of being overzealous, according to video from CNN affiliate WJXT.

"There is no justification for 20 years," Brown told Corey during an exchange frequently interrupted by onlookers. "All the community was asking for was mercy and justice," she said.

Corey said she had offered Alexander a plea bargain that would have resulted in a three-year prison sentence, but Alexander chose to take the case to a jury trial, where a conviction would carry a mandatory sentence under a Florida law known as "10-20-life."

27 jamesfirecat  Sat, May 12, 2012 8:33:41pm

re: #26 Kragar

Florida woman sentenced to 20 years in controversial warning shot case

The fuck? A woman has a known abusive husband and she fires a shot intended to scare him off, and she gets twenty years,,,, but shoot a kid with a bag of skittles and soda, and it takes national outrage to even get you into a courtroom?


Jesus wept!

28 Targetpractice  Sat, May 12, 2012 8:36:21pm

re: #27 jamesfirecat

The fuck? A woman has a known abusive husband and she fires a shot intended to scare him off, and she gets twenty years,,, but shoot a kid with a bag of skittles and soda, and it takes national outraged to even get you into a courtroom?

Jesus wept!

It's like we said at the time, SYG works only if you kill the other party. The husband admitted on the stand that he took every effort he could to prevent her from leaving the house, but because he's still alive, she's going to jail.

29 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Sat, May 12, 2012 8:42:53pm

O.T.

I saw a great bumper sticker today...

Republicans For Voldemort

Whoever came up with that has a well developed sense of satire. :)


(Turns out it also has an "Urban Dictionary" definition [Link: www.urbandictionary.com...] )

30 freetoken  Sat, May 12, 2012 8:45:41pm

This election year it's all going to hang out:


The ‘bribe’ to silence Wright

‘Man, the media ate me alive,” Wright told me when we met in his office at Chicago’s Kwame Nkrumah Academy. “After the media went ballistic on me, I received an e-mail offering me money not to preach at all until the November presidential election.”

“Who sent the e-mail?” I asked Wright.

“It was from one of Barack’s closest friends.”

“He offered you money?”

“Not directly,” Wright said. “He sent the offer to one of the members of the church, who sent it to me.”

“How much money did he offer you?”

“One hundred and fifty thousand dollars,” Wright said.

This is going to be quite the election season.

31 freetoken  Sat, May 12, 2012 8:48:57pm

Murdoch's NY Post posted this one too, just one minute earlier:

Jealous Michelle vs. Oprah

In his new book, “The Amateur: Barack Obama in the White House,” journalist Edward Klein reveals how even former friends and political allies of the president have become frustrated with his remoteness and bungling of crises. Klein, former editor of The New York Times Magazine and frequent contributor to Vanity Fair, interviewed numerous members of Obama’s inner circle. In this excerpt, he explains how even celebrity backer Oprah Winfrey was shoved aside.

Hehe... Edward Klein.

Anyway, we all have our seat-belts tightly secured, no?

32 Kragar  Sat, May 12, 2012 8:53:57pm

Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith Review

Youtube Video
33 Tigger2005  Sat, May 12, 2012 8:54:46pm

re: #26 Kragar

Florida woman sentenced to 20 years in controversial warning shot case

This is pure evil. There's no other word for it. A SEALstrike team should be sent in to get this woman out of jail.

34 freetoken  Sat, May 12, 2012 8:56:19pm

It's time for tonight's Our America:

Evolution debate on tap

Next year, a debate as old as Darwin could be revived in Texas.

The State Board of Education is scheduled to review science materials in summer 2013, when Amarillo attorney Marty Rowley, Amarillo Independent School District board president Anette Carlisle and a handful of other contenders for seats on the panel hope to stir anew efforts to kindle classroom discussion of alternatives to evolution.

[...]

Barth said several national science organizations have advocated for standards that teach evolution exclusively.

Rowley said he disagrees with those viewpoints.

“Evolutionists would say that we progressed to this point through a series of unplanned, random circumstances and random events,” he said. “I don’t believe that tells the whole story. I think there is more to our creation that indicates an intelligent being that has played a significant role.”

[...]

Evolution’s flaws as well as alternative theories should be part of the discussion, Rowley said.

“If we’re doing that, and we’re also presenting competing theories in whatever the subject matter might be, what I believe we’re doing is developing stronger graduates,” he said.

[...]

Still, some people think teachers should teach other theories alongside evolution so students understand all of the competing viewpoints, said Mark Biedebach, professor emeritus [ed. - beware of the emeritii] in the California State University-Long Beach department of biological sciences.

“It should be taught in a manner that does not favor any particular philosophical perspective and does not threaten the philosophical perspective of any students in the class,” he said.

“That’s simply not the case the way it is presented now.”

Biedebach said textbooks currently are heavily biased toward evolution.

So, we'll see the battle again in 2013, and the 2012 Texas SBOE election will decide the fate.

35 abolitionist  Sat, May 12, 2012 9:00:49pm

re: #33 Tigger2005

This is pure evil. There's no other word for it. A SEALstrike team should be sent in to get this woman out of jail.

Just a minute, there. Doesn't President Obama have the same powers that Clinton had? He could Pardon her.

36 abolitionist  Sat, May 12, 2012 9:02:38pm

Or does a Presidential pardon only apply for convictions of federal law?

37 Digital Display  Sat, May 12, 2012 9:02:45pm

Halftime Lakers Game report
Please join hands and join me in a prayer to the God of Basketball ( henceforth refereed to as GOB )
Dear GOB please deliver your people from defeat by Kobe ( DNA evidence aside )
Smite down Meta World Peace. ( OK maybe not smite but a pulled muscle would be cool )
May Blake miss all his 3 pointers in the 2nd half.
May you increase all the sugar in the Laker's Monster drinks by 5 fold.. May they be wide eyed and shaky hands..
May Andrew Bynum Meet Paris Hilton at halftime and arrange a hook-up after the game.
In your name we pray ( GOB*)

38 freetoken  Sat, May 12, 2012 9:02:55pm

ZomGits takes on "agnostic"... it's spreading like chlamydia

Youtube Video
39 Tigger2005  Sat, May 12, 2012 9:06:45pm

re: #35 abolitionist

Just a minute, there. Doesn't President Obama have the same powers that Clinton had? He could Pardon her.

The Governor could pardon her. Like that's going to happen.

40 TooManyJens  Sat, May 12, 2012 9:07:30pm

re: #36 abolitionist

Yes, the President can only pardon those convicted of Federal crimes.

41 freetoken  Sat, May 12, 2012 9:22:35pm

Youtube user AnticitizenX has compiled a list of his favorite Youtube videos for dealing with creationist arguments, complete with introductory video:

Youtube Video

The list is found here:

[Link: introducedrat.com...]

It might be useful at some time or another.

42 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sat, May 12, 2012 9:25:31pm

re: #31 freetoken

Murdoch's NY Post posted this one too, just one minute earlier:

Jealous Michelle vs. Oprah

Hehe... Edward Klein.

Anyway, we all have our seat-belts tightly secured, no?

[Link: thinkprogress.org...]

Although you wouldn’t know it from reading the New York Post, the Drudge Report or other popular right-wing outlets, Klein is a discredited author with a history of presenting falsehoods as fact. Here’s what you need to know about Edward Klein:

1. Klein’s last book, which was self-published, suggests Obama was born on foreign soil and is a practicing Mulism. In his 2010 work The Obama Identity: A Novel (Or Is It?), Klein co-authored along with a former Republican congressman is a compendium of Obama conspiracy theories. He had to self-publish the book.

2. Klein promoted a shameful conspiracy theory that Bill Clinton raped Hillary. In his 2005 book, Klein promoted an anonymous, hateful allegation supposedly made by two people who “claim” to have spoken with Bill Clinton about the circumstances surrounding the birth of the Clintons’ daughter Chelsea.

43 funky chicken  Sat, May 12, 2012 9:44:13pm

re: #4 Ming

It's hard to believe this is the 21st century, and some people consider skin color to be really, really important. What's next? Eye color? I can see it now: "people with blue eyes have made a better job of running fair and stable societies."

We blue-eyed devils rule the world, together with the Bilderbergers and Illuminati. We're just kinda quiet about it so you others don't catch on.

44 b_sharp  Sat, May 12, 2012 9:45:11pm

re: #20 freetoken

Ahh, but it's more than skin color. They are much more sophisticated than that. They've spun an entire epistemological web for themselves in which to trap their own minds.

Nicely put.

45 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, May 12, 2012 9:48:25pm

What, exactly, does his Chinese wife think of this idea?

46 b_sharp  Sat, May 12, 2012 9:49:44pm

re: #45 Mostly sane, most of the time.

What, exactly, does his Chinese wife think of this idea?

His token wife?

47 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, May 12, 2012 9:56:24pm

There's just something so odd about saying that you think that Whites ought to be in charge and supreme when your own son isn't white.

Weird.

48 Kragar  Sat, May 12, 2012 10:00:24pm

re: #45 Mostly sane, most of the time.

What, exactly, does his Chinese wife think of this idea?

Derbs calls asians "winter people" and thinks they're fine.

49 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, May 12, 2012 10:01:56pm

Oh, and on a tangential subject--I checked. My kids all know that women suffrage does not mean spousal abuse. They will not get trolled by a prank pollster.

Youtube Video
50 McSpiff  Sat, May 12, 2012 10:08:08pm

Evening Lizards -- At work, figured I might as well lurk with a logged in account...

51 thatthatisis  Sat, May 12, 2012 10:12:55pm

Hmmmmm. Could someone help me out with this white supremacy analysis? Is murdering 6 million Jews and starting WWII considered something that qualifies as a "blot on the record", or merely a hiccup?

52 Dark_Falcon  Sat, May 12, 2012 10:22:36pm

re: #28 Targetpractice

It's like we said at the time, SYG works only if you kill the other party. The husband admitted on the stand that he took every effort he could to prevent her from leaving the house, but because he's still alive, she's going to jail.

It's really more about the 'no-reentry' idea that is generally attached to self-defense. This lady wasn't allowed to claim self-defense, as the judge had denied the defense based on the fact she'd gone back into the house. I have read of other cases, and these were white men, who had a claim of self-defense denied for the same reason. Basically, the idea is that once you've successfully exited a area of danger, you must not re-enter it. If you do, it is normally held that you went back despite knowing the dangers in doing so, and thus may not claim self-defense. It's the idea that self-defense does not give you the right to enter a place when you know that doing so may cause a violent confrontation.

More on this tomorrow, good night.

53 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, May 12, 2012 10:24:56pm

re: #10 Kragar

See, the one problem they have when talking about white supremacy is none of them ever live up to the ideal image. They all look like creepy pasty guys whose families make sure the kids aren't left alone with.

and get caught with rent boys. . . .

54 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, May 12, 2012 10:29:13pm

re: #33 Tigger2005

This is pure evil. There's no other word for it. A SEALstrike team should be sent in to get this woman out of jail.

Man shoots and kills a minor --gets away with it.

Women tries to protect herself from her lawfully wedded husband --get's 20 years.

Is that right?

55 Targetpractice  Sat, May 12, 2012 10:32:37pm

re: #52 Dark_Falcon

It's really more about the 'no-reentry' idea that is generally attached to self-defense. This lady wasn't allowed to claim self-defense, as the judge had denied the defense based on the fact she'd gone back into the house. I have read of other cases, and these were white men, who had a claim of self-defense denied for the same reason. Basically, the idea is that once you've successfully exited a area of danger, you must not re-enter it. If you do, it is normally held that you went back despite knowing the dangers in doing so, and thus may not claim self-defense. It's the idea that self-defense does not give you the right to enter a place when you know that doing so may cause a violent confrontation.

More on this tomorrow, good night.

Yeah, I don't see it. Unless a garage does not count as part of a home under the current legal definitions. And she could not leave the garage as the door itself was busted, the husband admitting as much on the stand.

And that essentially turns Castle Doctrine on its head, as it says that once you leave your house, even if only to obtain a weapon to scare out intruders, you waive any legal protections.

56 freetoken  Sat, May 12, 2012 10:33:50pm

re: #51 thatthatisis

You've missed the bigger picture here. Derbyshire is not a case of either Holocaust-denial or even Holocaust-celebration. To try and back Derbyshire and his kind into such a narrow paradigm won't work because all they have to do is acknowledge that Western civilization is full of brutality, but in the end Western civilization still trumps all that comes from the other.

Derbyshire writes much more at VDARE than what Charles quoted. For example, later on in the article:

[...] I have attended at least a hundred conservative gatherings, conferences, cruises, and jamborees: let me tell you, there ain't too many raisins in that bun. I was in and out of the National Review offices for twelve years, and the only black person I saw there, other than when Herman Cain came calling, was Alex, the guy who runs the mail room. (Hey, Alex!)


This isn't because conservatism is hostile to blacks and mestizos. Very much the contrary, especially in the case of Conservatism Inc. They fawn over the occasional nonwhite with a puppyish deference that fairly fogs the air with embarrassment. (Q: What do you call the one black guy at a gathering of 1,000 Republicans? A: "Mr. Chairman.")


It's just that conservative ideals like self-sufficiency and minimal dependence on government have no appeal to underperforming minorities—groups who, in the statistical generality, are short of the attributes that make for group success in a modern commercial nation.

[...]

Derbyshire is a full on, non-religious genetic determinist. To him caucasians are simply superior to others, especially to those of African, Native American, or Southern Indian/Melanesian descent.

Unlike others, say Pat Buchanan, for whom Christianity serves as the central theme of Western Civilization and thus it is morally, ethically, and practically superior to all others, the genetic determinists are more blunt but also more subtle at the same time.

As I wrote earlier, there is a web, a detailed web, of epistemology laying here and one can't try to shoe-horn it into Nazi-ism.

57 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, May 12, 2012 10:35:21pm

Tennessee governor signs controversial 'gateway sexual activity' bill

Kissing and hugging are the last stop before reaching Groin Central Station, so it's important to ban all the things that lead to the things that lead to sex," he said on the "Colbert Report" television show.

But proponents say the new law helps define the existing abstinence-only sex-education policy.

Under the law, Tennessee teachers could be disciplined and speakers from outside groups like Planned Parenthood could face fines of up to $500 for promoting or condoning "gateway sexual activities."

David Fowler, president of the Family Action Council of Tennessee, which pushed the bill, said it does not ban kissing or holding hands from discussion in sex education classes. But he said it addresses the touching of certain "gateway body parts," including genitals, buttocks, breasts and the inner thigh.

Don't go touching your inner thigh!

58 austin_blue  Sat, May 12, 2012 10:35:41pm

The Georgian and the Austrian and the Serbian are stellar examples of white Europeans of doing Great Jobs!

Sheesh. What a load of peckersnot.

59 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, May 12, 2012 10:36:35pm

So how goes it tonite/this morning?

60 freetoken  Sat, May 12, 2012 10:37:14pm

re: #57 ggt

And then these people go on screeching about impending SHARIAH!!

61 Targetpractice  Sat, May 12, 2012 10:37:18pm

re: #57 ggt

Tennessee governor signs controversial 'gateway sexual activity' bill

"Kissing and hugging are the last stop before reaching Groin Central Station, so it's important to ban all the things that lead to the things that lead to sex," he said on the "Colbert Report" television show.

Don't go touching your inner thigh!

"Liberals want to use government to take away your rights to make stupid choices! And that's totally wrong! Why? Because that's our job!!"

62 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, May 12, 2012 10:41:28pm

No french-kissing cantelopes!

Colbert Report.

63 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, May 12, 2012 10:46:12pm

I've been pretty PO'd of the focus on the "moral behavior" of women in the legislatures lately (In case you haven't noticed). Since every abortion and every unwanted pregnancy is caused by a man, I think we should start focusing on the "moral behavior" of men.

If they want to behave like barn cats --TAX THEM.

The stats from the CDC figure the cost at $11B a year for unintended pregnancy. That figure does not include the WIC (welfare for formula, juice, etc to feed the baby), or the LINK (in Illinois-which is the cost to help feed the child after the first year).

Any other ideas?

64 austin_blue  Sat, May 12, 2012 10:50:40pm

re: #34 freetoken

It's time for tonight's Our America:

Evolution debate on tap

So, we'll see the battle again in 2013, and the 2012 Texas SBOE election will decide the fate.

Gah!

The Force is strong in this one.

65 austin_blue  Sat, May 12, 2012 10:53:01pm

re: #37 HoosierHoops

Halftime Lakers Game report
Please join hands and join me in a prayer to the God of Basketball ( henceforth refereed to as GOB )
Dear GOB please deliver your people from defeat by Kobe ( DNA evidence aside )
Smite down Meta World Peace. ( OK maybe not smite but a pulled muscle would be cool )
May Blake miss all his 3 pointers in the 2nd half.
May you increase all the sugar in the Laker's Monster drinks by 5 fold.. May they be wide eyed and shaky hands..
May Andrew Bynum Meet Paris Hilton at halftime and arrange a hook-up after the game.
In your name we pray ( GOB*)

From your post to God's ear....

66 austin_blue  Sat, May 12, 2012 11:01:07pm

Aww.. the Rockies are dead.

67 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, May 12, 2012 11:09:05pm

re: #2 Mich-again

You know, other than centuries of war and an occasional genocide here and there..

HE SAID THERE HAVE BEEN SOME BLOTS ON THE RECORD!!!!

68 Jaerik  Sat, May 12, 2012 11:09:18pm

So evidently someone's knowledge of history extends back only ~400 years or so.

69 Jaerik  Sat, May 12, 2012 11:13:30pm

...and is a pretty hindsight-biastastically selective interpretation of that history at best.

70 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, May 12, 2012 11:13:50pm

re: #23 Dark_Falcon

Guilds were a mixed bag. They were often a good deal for those who belonged to them, but if you weren't born into them you were often out of luck as far as entering. And this often meant you could not be part of that profession at all. They also resisted technological advances that threaten the jobs of their members, which sometimes retarded progress.

This is, from a twenty-first century perspective, all true. But they replaced a hierarchy of power that was even less democratic, and had no interest in progress at all.

I'd hate to see us go back to a guild system NOW, but for the time, they were an effective, if flawed, kind of of organization.

71 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, May 12, 2012 11:14:18pm

re: #26 Kragar

Florida woman sentenced to 20 years in controversial warning shot case

I am so pissed off about that.

72 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, May 12, 2012 11:26:05pm

re: #71 SanFranciscoZionist

I am so pissed off about that.

I am pissed about so many things this election cycle. . . .

73 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, May 12, 2012 11:28:03pm

I think I might be tired enough to go to sleep.

Night all!

74 freetoken  Sat, May 12, 2012 11:29:45pm

OK, speaking of Derbyshire, I went to NRO (not something I do often) and what leaps out at me is John Fund's latest piece: Censoring Naomi Riley

She was fired for having the courage to state the obvious.

Earlier this week, the Chronicle of Higher Education, the trade paper for faculty members and administrators in universities, fired Naomi Schaefer Riley, a paid blogger for its website. Her crime? She had the courage to respond to a Chronicle story called “Black Studies: ‘Swaggering Into the Future,’” which stated that “young black-studies scholars . . . are less consumed than their predecessors with the need to validate the field or explain why they are pursuing doctorates in their discipline.” The article used five Ph.D. candidates as examples of those “rewriting the history of race.” Riley looked at the subject areas of the five proposed dissertations and concluded that they were “obscure at best . . . a collection of left-wing victimization claptrap at worst.” One dissertation dealt with the failure of the natural-childbirth literature to include the experiences of non-white women, another blamed the housing crisis on institutional racism, and still another attacked Thomas Sowell and Clarence Thomas for leading an “assault on the civil-rights legacy that benefited them.”

[...]

Fund goes on to condemn the Chronicle of Higher Education for firing Riley.

Oh, the irony. As if the NRO didn't just fire someone (Derbyshire) last month for being politically incorrect! This wasn't lost on one commenter over there, btw:

Cloudbuster 05/12/12 07:19
Recently John Derbyshire, now Naomi Riley. Maybe Holder was right: we are cowards about race. I doubt he meant it in the same way I do.

Now, Cloudbuster obviously misses Derb, but the point remains that the parallel is there. Other commenters at NRO appear to be shying away from the obvious.

Here is Naomi Schaefer Riley's blog entry that raised such a dust-up:

The Most Persuasive Case for Eliminating Black Studies? Just Read the Dissertations.

In which she dismissively brushes aside a handful of dissertations without reading them.

Reading Riley's blog entry, it strikes me indeed as the classic right-wing sneering over Black Studies. It's something one would expect to find on any Murdock outlet - and guess what, she does write for the WSJ.

Should the Chronicle have let her go? I don't know, but they are an private entity and it seems to me if the NRO can let Derbyshire go because he seemed too toxic for them then why does the NRO criticize the Chronicle for letting go of someone who is writing pieces too controversial for their website?

75 freetoken  Sat, May 12, 2012 11:41:34pm

Put it in a Page.

76 Tigger2005  Sat, May 12, 2012 11:43:36pm

re: #71 SanFranciscoZionist

I am so pissed off about that.

I never wanted to go fucking break someone out of jail so bad. I mean FUCK THIS!!!!

77 AK-47%  Sun, May 13, 2012 12:02:09am

Then we should have no semantic problems with terms like "National Socialism", or "Black Panther"...

78 Kragar  Sun, May 13, 2012 12:18:06am

Kansas lawmakers pass effective ban on Islamic law

Kansas lawmakers have passed legislation intended to prevent the state courts or agencies from using Islamic or other non-U.S. laws in making decisions, a measure critics have blasted as an embarrassment to the state.

The legislation, which passed 33-3 in the state Senate on Friday and 120-0 previously in the House, is widely known in Kansas as the "Sharia bill," because the perceived goal of supporters is to keep Islamic code from being recognized in Kansas.

The bill was sent to Republican Governor Sam Brownback, who has not indicated whether he will sign it.

79 Kragar  Sun, May 13, 2012 12:22:42am

I wonder if those dipshits realize the 10 commandments aren't U.S. laws.

80 AK-47%  Sun, May 13, 2012 12:22:43am

re: #57 ggt

Tennessee governor signs controversial 'gateway sexual activity' bill

Don't go touching your inner thigh!

Some people are just obsessed with sex and sexuality. Some express it through promiscuous and lascivious behavior, others through extrme prudery.

But the symptoms are the same: anything to do with physicality, such as nudity or breastfeeding, is immediately brought into association with sexuality and gets them all in a tizzy.

81 AK-47%  Sun, May 13, 2012 12:28:19am

re: #79 Kragar

I wonder if those dipshits realize the 10 commandments aren't U.S. laws.

They do realize that fact, and they are working hard to rectify the problem...

82 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 13, 2012 12:46:59am

re: #76 Tigger2005

I never wanted to go fucking break someone out of jail so bad. I mean FUCK THIS!!!

I want to break this woman out of jail and then send her for a month at an expensive spa in the country. I have never heard anything like this bullshit.

83 Kragar  Sun, May 13, 2012 1:07:57am

The F-35 Shows Why the Pentagon Deserves a Smaller Budget

The F-35 Lightning II fighter jet, the Pentagon's biggest procurement program ever, is the poster child for the kind of wanton spending the nation can no longer afford. The F-35, built by Lockheed Martin, got its start in the early 1990s, with the concept for a stealthy jet that the Air Force, Navy and Marine Corps could all use, theoretically making it cheaper than a trio of different jets unique to each service.

It hasn't worked out that way. The first official plan, in 2001, called for 2,866 jets costing a total of $233 billion, according to the Government Accountability Office. The latest plan cuts production to 2,457 jets, yet the cost has risen to $397 billion. The cost per aircraft has doubled, from $81 million to $162 million, and that's without accounting for 10 years of inflation.

Budget analyst Winslow Wheeler--who calls the F-35 "the jet that ate the Pentagon"--argues that the total life-cycle cost of the program, including funds to operate and support the jet, could total a stunning $1.5 trillion or higher, which is more than the annual GDP of Spain.

The Pentagon obviously needs capable fighter jets, along with modern ships, helicopters, and ground vehicles, cutting-edge intelligence-gathering technology, highly trained troops, and a rigorous support-system for veterans. But the time has long passed when we could afford the best of everything, cost be damned. As Wheeler reports in Foreign Policy, the F-35 became an unaffordable boondoggle because defense officials, abetted by members of Congress, insisted that the plane do practically everything: fight other jets, drop bombs, fly supersonic, have enclosed bomb bays for stealth, and come in variants able to land on aircraft carriers, unimproved airfields in the bush and conventional runways. What, no corkscrew?

This is what happens when the Pentagon gets virtually unlimited sums to build the world's most amazing toys. The Russians and Chinese must be happy to let us go broke building Cold War-style monstrosities, while they bone up on cyberwar and become experts at economic espionage.

84 Kragar  Sun, May 13, 2012 1:13:07am

Remember the good ole days when you went to war with what you had, not what you would like?

85 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, May 13, 2012 1:16:57am

There's always a steady long line to the Anne Frank House. Decided not to go.

86 researchok  Sun, May 13, 2012 1:20:23am

Morning, all

87 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, May 13, 2012 1:32:42am

re: #74 freetoken

See [Link: www.theatlantic.com...]

Calling for the abolition of a department based on the seeming esoteric nature of its dissertations strikes me as silly. I'm willing to bet I could make the same case against English and Anthropology departments around the country. But calling for the abolition of those departments based on the dissertations, and then bragging that you haven't read any of them is journalistic malpractice.

Schaefer-Riley isn't merely saying she's ignorant of Black Studies (that would be bad.) She is saying she is ignorant of the very evidence she used to condemn black studies. And amazingly she says this as though it were somehow evidence in her favor!

Thus buying Andrew's defense of Schaefer-Riley doesn't simply mean buying the right to criticize black studies. We're all in agreement there. It means buying the right to criticize black studies without doing any substantive research into the field. It means buying the right to speak out of ignorance.

Put aside Black Studies--Why should anyone like that be covering academics and the work of collegiate scholars? If I wrote that Israel should bomb Iran, but confessed to only reading the headlines in the Times, would you take me seriously? Would you take my publisher seriously?

How is this even an issue? Why would anyone defend the right to be stupid? I'm serious here. This looks really open and shut to me.

89 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, May 13, 2012 1:34:03am

re: #88 May Day! May Day!

That guy is a real piece of work.

90 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, May 13, 2012 1:35:37am

re: #89 Unlike Some People

That guy is a real piece of work.

Fundies are a bane of any movement.

91 Kragar  Sun, May 13, 2012 1:43:18am

re: #88 May Day! May Day!

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

I think we should take heed of what Kansas did and stop listening to non US based laws, especially those over 2000 years old.

92 Kragar  Sun, May 13, 2012 1:43:41am

re: #90 May Day! May Day!

Fundies are a bane of any movement.

Very little is fun with the fundies.

93 EdDantes  Sun, May 13, 2012 1:49:15am

re: #92 Kragar

"I don't care what they do, as long as they don't do it in the street and frighten the horses." Mrs. Patrick Campbell.

94 freetoken  Sun, May 13, 2012 1:51:52am

From deep within the secret vault (5th basement below Denver International Airport), intense beauty, small doses only to insure the space-time continuum is not too greatly perturbed:

Sviridov's Hymns and Prayers, #2:

MP3 Audio
95 Kragar  Sun, May 13, 2012 1:52:25am

re: #93 EdDantes

"I don't care what they do, as long as they don't do it in the street and frighten the horses." Mrs. Patrick Campbell.

Rule 1) Everyone is there to have fun or you don't do it.
Rule 2) Don't catch anything you can't throw back.

96 researchok  Sun, May 13, 2012 1:59:52am

re: #94 freetoken

That's a keeper.

97 EdDantes  Sun, May 13, 2012 2:00:04am

re: #95 Kragar

Rule 3) The other line moves faster.

98 AK-47%  Sun, May 13, 2012 2:24:14am

re: #84 Kragar

Remember the good ole days when you went to war with what you had, not what you would like?

"You cannot solve social problems by simply throwing money at them."

-Ronald Reagan

One of his adages that I actually had to agree with to a great extent.

But when it comes to solving a military problem? Throw more money at it!

99 Kragar  Sun, May 13, 2012 2:30:00am

re: #98 Expand Your Ground

"You cannot solve social problems by simply throwing money at them."

-Ronald Reagan

One of his adages that I actually had to agree with to a great extent.

But when it comes to solving a military problem? Throw more money at it!

As it stands right now, for every 1 F-35, you could buy and operate 3 F-18E.

The other new fighter we have, the F-22, is so great that the pilots don't want to fly it because its a deathtrap.

Yeah, lets keep throwing cash at them.

100 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 4:10:15am

re: #99 Kragar

As it stands right now, for every 1 F-35, you could buy and operate 3 F-18E.

The other new fighter we have, the F-22, is so great that the pilots don't want to fly it because its a deathtrap.

Yeah, lets keep throwing cash at them.

Three operational Super Hornets versus one Lightning II that just sits there. Plus we have yet to find out the operational realities of the F-35 if and when it ever comes into service.

Ladies and gentlemen! Introducing the F-35 Lightning II!

Youtube Video

Pass the cup.

101 Kragar  Sun, May 13, 2012 4:21:48am

re: #100 Gus

Three operational Super Hornets versus one Lightning II that just sits there. Plus we have yet to find out the operational realities of the F-35 if and when it ever comes into service.

Ladies and gentlemen! Introducing the F-35 Lightning II!

[Embedded content] Pass the cup.

You know, considering we've been fighting guerillas operating on foot out of deserts and mountains for over a decade, or who operate inside civilian populations, it only makes sense to invest billions in an air superiority stealth fighter which doesn't work.

102 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 4:28:30am

re: #101 Kragar

You know, considering we've been fighting guerillas operating on foot out of deserts and mountains for over a decade, or who operate inside civilian populations, it only makes sense to invest billions in an air superiority stealth fighter which doesn't work.

How many years has it been since that competition between Lockheed and Boeing over the JSF? Seems like at least a decade. Don't you know of course that having this boondoggle around it the "patriotic" thing to do. To blindly accept the next biggest and greatest leap in aviation technology that comes down the pike. Heck, we all know that Lockheed is looking out for our own best interest. Wink, wink. I'm still waiting to see this thing do anything approaching ACM maneuvers.

103 Kragar  Sun, May 13, 2012 4:35:01am

re: #102 Gus

How many years has it been since that competition between Lockheed and Boeing over the JSF? Seems like at least a decade. Don't you know of course that having this boondoggle around it the "patriotic" thing to do. To blindly accept the next biggest and greatest leap in aviation technology that comes down the pike. Heck, we all know that Lockheed is looking out for our own best interest. Wink, wink. I'm still waiting to see this thing do anything approaching ACM maneuvers.

I still think the idea to try and make one fighter do everything was the wrong approach.

104 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 4:35:27am

re: #102 Gus

How many years has it been since that competition between Lockheed and Boeing over the JSF? Seems like at least a decade. Don't you know of course that having this boondoggle around it the "patriotic" thing to do. To blindly accept the next biggest and greatest leap in aviation technology that comes down the pike. Heck, we all know that Lockheed is looking out for our own best interest. Wink, wink. I'm still waiting to see this thing do anything approaching ACM maneuvers.

Some key dates:

• The Joint Advanced Strike Technology (JAST) program was created in 1993, implementing one of the recommendations of a United States Department of Defense (DoD) "Bottom-Up Review to include the United States Navy in the Common Strike Fighter program."

• Two contracts to develop prototypes were awarded on November 16, 1996, one each to Lockheed Martin and Boeing.

• Joint Strike Fighter was selected in January 2001.

• Contract for System Development and Demonstration (SDD) was awarded on 26 October 2001 to Lockheed Martin.

Hatch date was roughly 19 years ago. Development began 11 years ago. Still waiting while the price nearly doubled and world wide orders have been either cancelled or changed.

105 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 4:38:52am

re: #103 Kragar

I still think the idea to try and make one fighter do everything was the wrong approach.

They're trying to re-invent the wheel. They could have developed and advanced Harrier to complement the Super Hornet for the Marines and Navy respectively. You know how it goes though when the politicians and the generals/admirals want a new toy. They went ahead and decided to develop this watch with one engine. Not only one engine but only one engine manufacturer. Stealth is being over-sold methinks. They say "it has a radar profile of a bumble bee." Well then. I think if you see what looks like a bumble bee traveling at 400 KIA or more on your radar screen...

106 Kragar  Sun, May 13, 2012 4:39:28am

re: #104 Gus

Some key dates:

Hatch date was roughly 19 years ago. Development began 11 years ago. Still waiting while the price nearly doubled and world wide orders have been either cancelled or changed.

Its like they took everything that happened with the Bradley and put it on steroids.

107 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 4:41:09am

re: #106 Kragar

Its like they took everything that happened with the Bradley and put it on steroids.

Well. At least it has a machine gun. //

Comforting thought. I mean here we have another LM product kind of sitting around the hangar all the time. What makes people think the same thing won't be true of an already problem prone JSF still in development.

108 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 4:45:15am

We need companies like McDonald Douglas. The last "fighter" Lockheed built was the basically useless F-104 Starfighter. It was a good X-15 simulator platform but was of no good in Viet Nam and a "widow maker" in German or Italian service. Again, the JSF was developed under global parameters from 1993.

109 Kragar  Sun, May 13, 2012 4:49:43am

re: #107 Gus

Well. At least it has a machine gun. //

Comforting thought. I mean here we have another LM product kind of sitting around the hangar all the time. What makes people think the same thing won't be true of an already problem prone JSF still in development.

When it comes to military thinking, I think Stalin had it right, numbers have a quality all their own. Stop trying to make a single super plane. Build one plane that's reliable and cheap, that can do the majority of the jobs necessary. If you really need a plane to fill a certain role, use the money you saved and get another plane.

110 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 4:53:49am

re: #109 Kragar

When it comes to military thinking, I think Stalin had it right, numbers have a quality all their own. Stop trying to make a single super plane. Build one plane that's reliable and cheap.

I got the "watch" thing from the Russians. They always laugh at us in how we're always building watches now instead of combat aircraft. I can imagine getting a BSD in the new variants.

I could have included the F-16 under Lockheed Martin before. But really that was developed by General Dynamics. The F-18 of course was originally never a Boeing product. Boeing of course never built a true fighter/attack aircraft that went to service.

They inherited the F-15 and the F-18 through the acquisition of MD. This could be part of the problem. Not enough competition and we're essentially stuck with either Lockheed or Boeing.

111 Kragar  Sun, May 13, 2012 4:58:25am

re: #110 Gus

Not enough competition and we're essentially stuck with either Lockheed or Boeing.

I really, really do not like Boeing ever since the Osprey incidents.

112 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 4:59:09am

re: #111 Kragar

I really, really do not like Boeing ever since the Osprey incidents.

That and their weird scandals.

113 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 5:01:41am

From Romney's speech at Jerry Falwell University:

Freedom requires religion just as religion requires freedom. Freedom opens the windows of the soul so that man can discover his most profound beliefs and commune with God. Freedom and religion endure together, or perish alone.

114 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 5:02:38am

All hail the white man's American God!

Olmmmm.

//

115 Decatur Deb  Sun, May 13, 2012 5:02:54am

re: #109 Kragar

When it comes to military thinking, I think Stalin had it right, numbers have a quality all their own. Stop trying to make a single super plane. Build one plane that's reliable and cheap, that can do the majority of the jobs necessary. If you really need a plane to fill a certain role, use the money you saved and get another plane.

If you build a lot of cheap planes (or tanks) you need a lot of very expensive pilots and the ground logistics tail. In the end, the Bright and Shiny is the less costly part of the system. The best strategy for the moment seems to be spending a good bit on high-tech rapidly producible weapons, and not producing many just to watch them go obsolete in a couple decades. Our vulnerability is in loss of our production base. Rosie the Riveter isn't available for the next one.

116 Kragar  Sun, May 13, 2012 5:03:13am

re: #112 Gus

That and their weird scandals.

I was working at Camp Lejeune back when the Osprey's were dropping out of the sky. Got sent over to the air station as part of the team to lockdown their computers and email servers and keep watch on them till the official investigator's showed up. 3 guys from my shop and a handful of MPs to make sure none of the officers tried to hide evidence. That was a fun time.

117 Decatur Deb  Sun, May 13, 2012 5:06:26am

re: #116 Kragar

I was working at Camp Lejeune back when the Osprey's were dropping out of the sky. Got sent over to the air station as part of the team to lockdown their computers and email servers and keep watch on them till the official investigator's showed up. 3 guys from my shop and a handful of MPs to make sure none of the officers tried to hide evidence. That was a fun time.

I was at an R&D center when our (primitive) email system announced that no files related to the Sgt York gun were to be deleted. A surprising number of engineers seemed a little pleased at that.

118 Kragar  Sun, May 13, 2012 5:08:10am

re: #115 Decatur Deb

If you build a lot of cheap planes (or tanks) you need a lot of very expensive pilots and the ground logistics tail. In the end, the Bright and Shiny is the less costly part of the system. The best strategy for the moment seems to be spending a good bit on high-tech rapidly producible weapons, and not producing many just to watch them go obsolete in a couple decades. Our vulnerability is in loss of our production base. Rosie the Riveter isn't available for the next one.

The problem here being is the F-35 isn't showing any signs of being rapid producible or being effective.

I'd still go with a cheaper general purpose plane, ordering as many as we need, then actually using the money saved on other projects entirely.

119 Kragar  Sun, May 13, 2012 5:10:34am

re: #117 Decatur Deb

I was at an R&D center when our (primitive) email system announced that no files related to the Sgt York gun were to be deleted. A surprising number of engineers seemed a little pleased at that.

My specialty for a while was email servers. I always loved seeing the look on a guy's face who obviously just deleted his entire mailbox to cover his tracks hearing that we could recover everything in a few hours.

120 Decatur Deb  Sun, May 13, 2012 5:10:40am

re: #118 Kragar

The problem here being is the F-35 isn't showing any signs of being rapid producible or being effective.

I'd still go with a cheaper general purpose plane, ordering as many as we need, then actually using the money saved on other projects entirely.

Producibility is one of the critical 'ilities' taught at Defense Acquisition University. We are not even self-sufficient in small arms ammo right now.

121 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 5:13:09am

re: #113 Gus

From Romney's speech at Jerry Falwell University:

Freedom requires religion just as religion requires freedom. Freedom opens the windows of the soul so that man can discover his most profound beliefs and commune with God. Freedom and religion endure together, or perish alone.

That was actually from 2007 and not at Jerry Falwell University. Some more lines:

We separate church and state affairs in this country, and for good reason. No religion should dictate to the state nor should the state interfere with the free practice of religion. But in recent years, the notion of the separation of church and state has been taken by some well beyond its original meaning. They seek to remove from the public domain any acknowledgment of God. Religion is seen as merely a private affair with no place in public life. It is as if they are intent on establishing a new religion in America – the religion of secularism. They are wrong.

The founders proscribed the establishment of a state religion, but they did not countenance the elimination of religion from the public square. We are a nation 'Under God' and in God, we do indeed trust.

122 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 5:28:48am

re: #120 Decatur Deb

Producibility is one of the critical 'ilities' taught at Defense Acquisition University. We are not even self-sufficient in small arms ammo right now.

This chit has been around since before the 70s. I'm not optimistic. It's become a viscous cycle built around politics, greed and the revolving door.

123 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, May 13, 2012 5:29:12am

Just when you thought ggt couldn't get any more pissed:

Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer Signs Legislation Permitting Employers to Interrogate Female Employees About Contraception Use

calling it a 1st amendment issue?

Will they interview Men about their Viagra scripts?

Fuck this.

124 Decatur Deb  Sun, May 13, 2012 5:31:02am

re: #122 Gus

This chit has been around since before the 70s. I'm not optimistic. It's become a viscous cycle built around politics, greed and the revolving door.

1770s? The R&D center I worked at built cannonballs for George Washington. We had a Hessian POW buried up on the hill.

125 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 5:31:30am

re: #124 Decatur Deb

1770s? The R&D center I worked at built cannonballs for George Washington. We had a Hessian POW buried up on the hill.

You damn Easterners.

//

126 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 5:34:20am

Donald "Duck" Dunn has passed away.

You may remember him from Otis Redding, Booker T. & the M.G.'s, Albert King, Mar-Keys, Eric Clapton, The Blues Brothers.

127 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, May 13, 2012 5:34:51am

re: #45 Mostly sane, most of the time.

What, exactly, does his Chinese wife think of this idea?

Curiously, Derbyshire seems to have published a few pieces about China/Chinese on VDARE, the oldest dating back to September 2000 and the latest to August 2011.

128 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 5:39:44am

re: #126 Gus

Donald "Duck" Dunn has passed away.

You may remember him from Otis Redding, Booker T. & the M.G.'s, Albert King, Mar-Keys, Eric Clapton, The Blues Brothers.

Image: ao1.jpg

129 Decatur Deb  Sun, May 13, 2012 5:43:23am

re: #123 ggt

Just when you thought ggt couldn't get any more pissed:

Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer Signs Legislation Permitting Employers to Interrogate Female Employees About Contraception Use

calling it a 1st amendment issue?

Will they interview Men about their Viagra scripts?

Fuck this.

"Feel Free to Trigger a Federal Anti-discrimination Suit Act of 2012".

130 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, May 13, 2012 5:45:55am

re: #129 Decatur Deb

"Feel Free to Trigger a Federal Anti-discrimination Suit Act of 2012".

Yeah, I see a Supreme Court Decision in ?? years.

Even more important to keep the GOP out of the White House.

131 Decatur Deb  Sun, May 13, 2012 5:50:42am

re: #123 ggt

Just when you thought ggt couldn't get any more pissed:

Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer Signs Legislation Permitting Employers to Interrogate Female Employees About Contraception Use

calling it a 1st amendment issue?

Will they interview Men about their Viagra scripts?

Fuck this.

I suppose it would also let the boss ask husbands if they intend to permit their wives to use BC. Only makes (AZ) sense.

132 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 5:51:44am

re: #131 Decatur Deb

I suppose it would also let the boss ask husbands if they intend to permit their wives to use BC. Only makes (AZ) sense.

You can't spell "crazy" without R-AZ.

Saw that on Twitter yesterday.

133 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, May 13, 2012 5:53:41am

The really mind-boggling thing (to me anyway) is that the Whacko's are so caught-up in Obama being the anti-christ, the real evil ones are using it as a red herring and the Whackos are going along with it.

Hello --this are YOUR civil rights, not "the other persons".

arghhhhhhhhhhhh!

134 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 5:53:42am

You ever notice how all the "right to work" states are backwards?

135 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, May 13, 2012 5:55:33am

re: #134 Gus

You ever notice how all the "right to work" states are backwards white?

ftfy

136 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, May 13, 2012 5:58:23am

Started listening to William Shirer's The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich. Just got thru the description of the different factions vying for power after WWII --it was the right-wing the carried out various assassinations.

I have to re-listen to that section. But it scared the hell out of me.

137 Decatur Deb  Sun, May 13, 2012 6:00:01am

re: #134 Gus

You ever notice how all the "right to work" states are backwards?

"Right to Work" did a neat thing for the southern states, letting them suck textile and other industry from the North. Then ISO container ships got cheap. Our local textile plants are paintball ranges now. Seems the corporations don't love Real America any more than they loved New Hampshire.

138 Decatur Deb  Sun, May 13, 2012 6:04:23am

Dog doesn't understand "day of rest'. BBL

139 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, May 13, 2012 6:04:58am

re: #138 Decatur Deb

Dog doesn't understand "day of rest'. BBL

Hey, it's Mother's Day --I'm not taking the dogs out all day long.

:)

140 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 6:06:36am

re: #137 Decatur Deb

"Right to Work" did a neat thing for the southern states, letting them suck textile and other industry from the North. Then ISO container ships got cheap. Our local textile plants are paintball ranges now. Seems the corporations don't love America any more than they loved New Hampshire.

They like to say that businesses are leaving California because of regulation and taxation. Now if we focus on manufacturing they'll leave California and head to Mississippi. In the end the executives will find that the cost of manufacturing even in place like Mississippi are not as desirable so they move to China. Now? Even countries like China are proving to be unprofitable to maintain a cultural inculcated level of greed and luxurious living for those that run the corporations. As countries, people, become more modernized and empowered they will run out of places to exploit. This may take several decades but eventually it will happen.

141 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, May 13, 2012 6:07:39am

re: #140 Gus

They like to say that businesses are leaving California because of regulation and taxation. Now if we focus on manufacturing they'll leave California and head to Mississippi. In the end the executives will find that the cost of manufacturing even in place like Mississippi are not as desirable so they move to China. Now? Even countries like China are proving to be unprofitable to maintain a cultural inculcated level of greed and luxurious living for those that run the corporations. As countries, people, become more modernized and empowered they will run out of places to exploit. This may take several decades but eventually it will happen.

They won't get the talent to move to Mississippi.

142 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 6:08:27am

re: #141 ggt

They won't get the talent to move to Mississippi.

Which is what I was thinking before when you mentioned the latest in Arizona's extremism. Who in the world would want to move to Arizona at this point?

143 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, May 13, 2012 6:08:56am

re: #142 Gus

Which is what I was thinking before when you mentioned the latest in Arizona's extremism. Who in the world would want to move to Arizona at this point?

Religious fundamentalists of all flavors --

Retired people who don't have a dog in the fight.

144 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 6:12:49am

re: #143 ggt

Religious fundamentalists of all flavors --

Maybe it's become a hot spot for disgruntled California wingnuts to move to.

145 Obdicut  Sun, May 13, 2012 6:14:04am

re: #140 Gus

The stupid thing is a lot of time it's not even the cost. Sure, you get some savings through the reduced labor costs, reduced environmental compliance, etc. But it's more that US companies have no desire to invest in the capital costs of big manufacturing plants, and the complexities of running them, when instead they can just be the management, the retailer, the creator of the intellectual property, the patent-holder.

That's why we see most of the new manufacturing in the US actually being foreign-owned companies.

146 dragonfire1981  Sun, May 13, 2012 6:16:38am

re: #136 ggt

Started listening to William Shirer's The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich. Just got thru the description of the different factions vying for power after WWII --it was the right-wing the carried out various assassinations.

I have to re-listen to that section. But it scared the hell out of me.

How you know its early: I misread that as William Shatner's The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich.

147 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, May 13, 2012 6:16:42am

All this freakin' fighting over sex, NOT ONE THOUGHT is given to the innocent child that may be created. Unwanted, Unplanned and with little chance of having it's parents cherish it.

but it's all about the Economy . . .

Who pays for this child?

Guess it doesn't matter as they need the wage-slaves. gah!

148 darthstar  Sun, May 13, 2012 6:18:11am

Happy Mother's Day everyone.

149 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 6:19:56am

re:

150 Eventual Carrion  Sun, May 13, 2012 6:20:20am

re: #123 ggt

Just when you thought ggt couldn't get any more pissed:

Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer Signs Legislation Permitting Employers to Interrogate Female Employees About Contraception Use

calling it a 1st amendment issue?

Will they interview Men about their Viagra scripts?

Fuck this.

Cool. So if I open up a shop in AZ I can ask if the gal uses contraceptives. If she answers no I can assume she is a religious fundy (since using contraceptives infers sluttyness, cuts both ways), and can refrain from hiring her based on that fact. One way to keep my workers inhouse and not out on maternity leave every year.

151 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, May 13, 2012 6:22:02am

re: #149 Gus

re:

Yep.

/

152 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, May 13, 2012 6:22:31am

re: #150 RayFerd

Cool. So if I open up a shop in AZ I can ask if the gal uses contraceptives. If she answers no I can assume she is a religious fundy (since using contraceptives infers sluttyness, cuts both ways), and can refrain from hiring her based on that fact. One way to keep my workers inhouse and not out on maternity leave every year.

except that no self-respecting women would submit so such an invasion of privacy. The women who would are not the kind you'd want working for you.

153 darthstar  Sun, May 13, 2012 6:26:52am

re: #138 Decatur Deb

Dog doesn't understand "day of rest'. BBL

Yesterday after we got home from the club and a Costco run, I said I thought I deserved a good nap (I'd just swum my first mile). As soon as I said that, Banjo hopped up on the bed, paw-stomped his way up my body, and shoved the bone he was chewing into my ear (apparently thinking that was a good place to leave it).

In a related story, he's taken to putting his bone next to the booze in the liquor cabinet. I moved it from there two days ago, and last night he sticks his head in the liquor cabinet, turns around, and barks at me as if to say, "Who's the asshole who finished the bone?" I guess he sees that as a treat cabinet...and it is.

154 Eventual Carrion  Sun, May 13, 2012 6:28:03am

re: #152 ggt

except that no self-respecting women would submit so such an invasion of privacy. The women who would are not the kind you'd want working for you.

I would hope, but sadly desperation (like to feed the kids) can lead to doing things that you find distasteful. I wanted to point out that this law, again, may have consequences that they just can't see past their blinders. It could accomplish exactly the opposite as to what they expect it to accomplish.

155 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, May 13, 2012 6:28:59am

re: #153 darthstar

Yesterday after we got home from the club and a Costco run, I said I thought I deserved a good nap (I'd just swum my first mile). As soon as I said that, Banjo hopped up on the bed, paw-stomped his way up my body, and shoved the bone he was chewing into my ear (apparently thinking that was a good place to leave it).

In a related story, he's taken to putting his bone next to the booze in the liquor cabinet. I moved it from there two days ago, and last night he sticks his head in the liquor cabinet, turns around, and barks at me as if to say, "Who's the asshole who finished the bone?" I guess he sees that as a treat cabinet...and it is.

And how could you live without him?

LOL

156 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, May 13, 2012 6:30:18am

re: #154 RayFerd

I would hope, but sadly desperation (like to feed the kids) can lead to doing things that you find distasteful. I wanted to point out that this law, again, may have consequences that they just can't see past their blinders. It could accomplish exactly the opposite as to what they expect it to accomplish.

Yeah, will be interesting.

They are doing this to force either legislation and ultimately a Supreme Court decision, which they think will be in favor of religious rights.

They want this country declared a Christian Nation officially --Christian Taliban.

157 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 6:31:39am

re: #151 May Day! May Day!

Yep.

/

Fookity, fook, fook, fook, connection, fook.

Grrrrrrr. //

158 Obdicut  Sun, May 13, 2012 6:33:34am

On a different note, here's some recordings of my father-in-law jamming with his best friend.

His friend's hands don't work anymore after a stroke, and he's very down and frustrated. My father-in-law thought getting his stuff up on youtube in a way he could share it with people would be nice.

If you guys have the time and inclination, go ahead and have a listen and if you like it, leave a comment saying so. (I set the comments to approve-only so that no shitheads could leave crapblabber).

Youtube Video
Youtube Video
Youtube Video

(last one still uploading right now.)

159 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Sun, May 13, 2012 6:34:48am

I guess my shopping trip will be delayed. There's a walk or parade or something going on and I'm now semi-isolated from getting to the roads I want to use.

160 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, May 13, 2012 6:35:27am

re: #157 Gus

Fookity, fook, fook, fook, connection, fook.

Grrr. //

I knew you're Dutch ;)

161 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 6:35:59am

re: #160 May Day! May Day!

I knew you're Dutch ;)

It's probably the bangs and the wooden shoes.

//

162 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, May 13, 2012 6:36:37am

re: #161 Gus

It's probably the bangs and the wooden shoes.

//

The dope smell.

///
///

163 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 6:36:58am

re: #162 May Day! May Day!

The dope smell.

///
///

Skunk!

//

164 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, May 13, 2012 6:38:12am

re: #163 Gus

Skunk!

//

No, not skunk. MJ, I tell ya! /// ///

165 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 6:38:35am

re: #164 May Day! May Day!

No, not skunk. MJ, I tell ya! /// ///

Rosenberg?

//

166 Killgore Trout  Sun, May 13, 2012 6:38:45am

Second Afghan peace broker assassinated

Gunmen killed a senior member of Afghanistan's High Peace Council Sunday morning, in yet another signal that some elements within the insurgency are against talks.

167 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, May 13, 2012 6:39:17am

re: #165 Gus

Candyman Candyman Candyman

168 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 6:39:39am

re: #167 May Day! May Day!

Candyman Candyman Candyman

Who can make the sun rise?

//

169 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 6:40:29am

Oops. That's actually...

Who can take a sunrise, sprinkle it with dew...

170 darthstar  Sun, May 13, 2012 6:40:49am

re: #168 Gus

Who can make the sun rise?

//

Hey I loved that song...made me think Sammy Davis Jr. was a dealer.

171 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, May 13, 2012 6:41:06am

re: #169 Gus

Oops. That's actually...

Who can take a sunrise, sprinkle it with dew...

OK, enough with the Dutch porn...///

172 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 6:41:38am

re: #171 May Day! May Day!

OK, enough with the Dutch porn...///

Darn it. Was just starting to like that shiny PVC.

//

173 darthstar  Sun, May 13, 2012 6:42:19am

re: #169 Gus

Oops. That's actually...

Who can take a sunrise, sprinkle it with dew...

Of course, in college we sang it as "The S&M Man"...drunken guy stuff
Who can take a sheep
Out behind the barn...
You get the picture from there...

174 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, May 13, 2012 6:42:52am

re: #173 darthstar

Of course, in college we sang it as "The S&M Man"...drunken guy stuff
Who can take a sheep
Out behind the barn...
You get the picture from there...

GMTA//

175 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 6:44:00am

re: #174 May Day! May Day!

GMTA//

Let's see. So far we have Dutch porn, shiny PVC, S&M, and sheep.

Anything else?

//

176 darthstar  Sun, May 13, 2012 6:44:47am

re: #175 Gus

Let's see. So far we have Dutch porn, shiny PVC, S&M, and sheep.

Anything else?

//

Mother. It is Mother's Day, after all. So this is all appropriate in context.

177 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, May 13, 2012 6:44:58am

And the T-shirt Rant for the Weekend.

178 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, May 13, 2012 6:45:15am

re: #175 Gus

Let's see. So far we have Dutch porn, shiny PVC, S&M, and sheep.

Anything else?

//

Lots of beer (raises Amstel glass).

179 darthstar  Sun, May 13, 2012 6:45:54am

re: #177 ggt

And the T-shirt Rant for the Weekend.

Doesn't look like a very comfortable t-shirt.

180 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 13, 2012 6:46:16am

re: #55 Targetpractice

Yeah, I don't see it. Unless a garage does not count as part of a home under the current legal definitions. And she could not leave the garage as the door itself was busted, the husband admitting as much on the stand.

And that essentially turns Castle Doctrine on its head, as it says that once you leave your house, even if only to obtain a weapon to scare out intruders, you waive any legal protections.

Honestly, TP, it doesn't turn the Castle Doctrine on its head. The argument against one having a "duty to retreat" inside one's own home doesn't extend to re-entering a place when you know (or should know) that doing so carries a high risk of violent confrontation. Basically all self-defense law contains the idea that once you have left the danger zone you are obligated to stay out of it. If go back into it, then most judges will not allow you to claim self-defense.

181 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, May 13, 2012 6:47:21am

re: #179 darthstar

Doesn't look like a very comfortable t-shirt.

Well, there are other offerings, .. .

182 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, May 13, 2012 6:48:00am

re: #110 Gus

Boeing of course never built a true fighter/attack aircraft that went to service.

That's not quite correct. In the pre-WWII era, Boeing was one of the biggest suppliers of fighters to the Navy & Army. The F4B/P-12, while not as well known as the Curtis P-6 Hawk series (especially the famous P-6E) was built in far greater numbers and was a much better aircraft. Were I rich, I'd start up a line building replicas.

That said, the rest of your analysis is correct.

What should be do is what was done with the MBT-70. Throw both aircraft out and start over from scratch with a maximum price tag per item built in that is equal to the cost of the F16. Open the competition to any manufacturer world wide & I'll bet they can find a way to get costs down...

183 darthstar  Sun, May 13, 2012 6:49:13am

Because it will be hard to find in California after June 1...a little foie gras from last night's dinner. Oh, and it was fantastic. I also had the sweet breads and a filet with morels and truffle butter...yes, I'm going for a long bike ride today to work it off.

184 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, May 13, 2012 6:51:20am

re: #117 Decatur Deb

I was at an R&D center when our (primitive) email system announced that no files related to the Sgt York gun were to be deleted. A surprising number of engineers seemed a little pleased at that.

Now that was a god awful mess that got axed before it got too far. I always preferred the experiments where they put stinger pods on the side of regular tank turrets for the loader to shoot at Russian helicopters... At least that would have been fun to qualify on :D

185 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, May 13, 2012 6:51:31am

re: #182 William Barnett-Lewis

re: #183 darthstar

You Two!

Darthstar did the bumper sticker you wannted WB-L.

Dartstar, do you want to re-post the link?

186 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 13, 2012 6:51:45am

re: #182 William Barnett-Lewis

What happened was that Boeing's B17 Flying Fortress was such a key aircraft that it and the B-29 Superfortress were all Boeing had the capacity to build. By 1943 their plant was at maximum capacity and running around the clock.

187 Lidane  Sun, May 13, 2012 6:52:22am

re: #91 Kragar

I think we should take heed of what Kansas did and stop listening to non US based laws, especially those over 2000 years old.

Exactly.

188 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, May 13, 2012 6:53:33am

A young, otherwise liberal, family member of mine posted on fb about immigrants not speaking English. Seems he's been turned down for jobs because he can't speak Spanish.

Guess what my answer was . . . .

189 darthstar  Sun, May 13, 2012 6:53:39am

re: #37 HoosierHoops

The Lakers live for Game 7s.

190 darthstar  Sun, May 13, 2012 6:54:14am

re: #185 ggt

[Link: www.cafepress.com...]

191 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 13, 2012 6:54:24am

re: #117 Decatur Deb

I was at an R&D center when our (primitive) email system announced that no files related to the Sgt York gun were to be deleted. A surprising number of engineers seemed a little pleased at that.

The Sgt. york was something that could have worked had it been developed right and the Pentagon not fallen victim to 'new toy syndrome'. But they just had to go for maximum technology and right away; The results were disastrous.

192 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 6:54:29am

Grrrr.

193 Sheila Broflovski  Sun, May 13, 2012 6:55:35am

re: #188 ggt

A young, otherwise liberal, family member of mine posted on fb about immigrants not speaking English. Seems he's been turned down for jobs because he can't speak Spanish.

Guess what my answer was . . .

¡Aprenda hablar español!

194 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, May 13, 2012 6:55:59am

re: #192 Gus

Grrr.

I'm sitting in a restaurant called De Roode Leeuw. I'm pretty sure they mean Trotsky //

195 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, May 13, 2012 6:56:31am

re: #193 Learned Mother of Zion

¡Aprenda hablar español!

No shit, how effective are you going to be in your job if you can't speak your client's language? You wantz their money???

duh

196 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 13, 2012 6:56:40am

re: #184 William Barnett-Lewis

Now that was a god awful mess that got axed before it got too far. I always preferred the experiments where they put stinger pods on the side of regular tank turrets for the loader to shoot at Russian helicopters... At least that would have been fun to qualify on :D

The Russians eventually took our lead from the Bradley Linebacker and built a BMP-2 turret with 2 23mm cannon (the same type as on the ZSU-23-4) and a pair of SAMs (originally SA-16s, but since upgraded to SA-24s).

197 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 6:56:50am

re: #194 May Day! May Day!

I'm sitting in a restaurant called De Roode Leeuw. I'm pretty sure they mean Trotsky //

Ended up rebooting this Toyshiba.

198 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 13, 2012 6:57:13am

re: #192 Gus

Grrr.

Settle down, Gus. Don't make me traq you again!

199 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, May 13, 2012 6:59:50am

re: #198 Dark_Falcon

Settle down, Gus. Don't make me traq you again!

CHOCOLATE,

I think we all need some chocolate!

200 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 7:00:24am

Teh immigrants aren't speaking teh English!!!!

Who runs into these problems? I know I don't.

201 Artist  Sun, May 13, 2012 7:00:50am

My li'l sis graduated college yesterday. I'm very proud of her. :)

202 PhillyPretzel  Sun, May 13, 2012 7:00:58am

re: #199 ggt

Yummy. Is that bittersweet chocolate?

203 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, May 13, 2012 7:01:05am

re: #200 Gus

Teh immigrants aren't speaking teh English!!!

Who runs into these problems? I know I don't.

I'd be happy if native born people spoke American English.

204 darthstar  Sun, May 13, 2012 7:01:13am

re: #199 ggt

CHOCOLATE,

I think we all need some chocolate!

I don't get out of bed for less than 72%...give me 85% and above and I'm happy.

205 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, May 13, 2012 7:01:18am

re: #202 PhillyPretzel

Yummy. Is that bittersweet chocolate?

It's whatever you want it to be.

206 PhillyPretzel  Sun, May 13, 2012 7:01:52am

re: #201 Artist

My nephew got a 4.0 semester at Georgia Tech. I am very proud of him.

207 darthstar  Sun, May 13, 2012 7:03:40am

re: #206 PhillyPretzel

My nephew got a 4.0 semester at Georgia Tech. I am very proud of him.

They do book learnin' in Georgia?
//

Seriously, 4.0 is sweet...I did that my last few semesters of college (once I put down the pipe and picked up the books and saved the dope-smoking for after I got my homework done).

208 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, May 13, 2012 7:04:22am

re: #186 Dark_Falcon

What happened was that Boeing's B17 Flying Fortress was such a key aircraft that it and the B-29 Superfortress were all Boeing had the capacity to build. By 1943 their plant was at maximum capacity and running around the clock.

Actually Boeing got out of the fighter biz before that. Their transport & flying boat biz was more important. Their last fighter, the P-26 (which would fight a hopeless heroic battle with the Philippine Air Force against the Japanese) came out in 1932. B-17 production didn't ramp up significantly until the 512 B-17E models were ordered in September 1941. Prior to that only about 150 airframes over 6 years; the company nearly went under because production was so limited. All that kept the going were the 307 & the 314 - small production but glamorous aircraft. The surviving 307 is a beautiful item if you ever get a chance to see it.

209 Sheila Broflovski  Sun, May 13, 2012 7:04:44am

I can't call my mom today as she is on a cruise to the Greek islands. My daughter called from Israel.

I posted on FB last week that if all my kids chipped in together, they could get me a really nice present, like a Pandora bracelet.

Do you think that was too crass?

210 Decatur Deb  Sun, May 13, 2012 7:04:52am

re: #196 Dark_Falcon

The Russians eventually took our lead from the Bradley Linebacker and built a BMP-2 turret with 2 23mm cannon (the same type as on the ZSU-23-4) and a pair of SAMs (originally SA-16s, but since upgraded to SA-24s).

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

211 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, May 13, 2012 7:05:22am

re: #209 Learned Mother of Zion

I can't call my mom today as she is on a cruise to the Greek islands. My daughter called from Israel.

I posted on FB last week that if all my kids chipped in together, they could get me a really nice present, like a Pandora bracelet.

Do you think that was too crass?

NO!

212 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, May 13, 2012 7:06:12am

I'm outta here.

Have a great day all!

213 PhillyPretzel  Sun, May 13, 2012 7:06:20am

re: #209 Learned Mother of Zion

No.

214 darthstar  Sun, May 13, 2012 7:06:39am

re: #209 Learned Mother of Zion

It would only be crass if you put a link to it on the Zionist mall and marked it up 35%.

215 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, May 13, 2012 7:06:51am

re: #191 Dark_Falcon

The Sgt. york was something that could have worked had it been developed right and the Pentagon not fallen victim to 'new toy syndrome'. But they just had to go for maximum technology and right away; The results were disastrous.

No, it was a bad concept from day one. The Pentagon had a woodie over the ZSU-23/4 and wanted something like it for us even though the Russian one was a worthless as the one we'd try to build. It's good it got the ax early so that less money was wasted on it. If you go back and look, none of the mobile AAA guns of that era were a success.

216 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 13, 2012 7:07:58am

re: #208 William Barnett-Lewis

Actually Boeing got out of the fighter biz before that. Their transport & flying boat biz was more important. Their last fighter, the P-26 (which would fight a hopeless heroic battle with the Philippine Air Force against the Japanese) came out in 1932. B-17 production didn't ramp up significantly until the 512 B-17E models were ordered in September 1941. Prior to that only about 150 airframes over 6 years; the company nearly went under because production was so limited. All that kept the going were the 307 & the 314 - small production but glamorous aircraft. The surviving 307 is a beautiful item if you ever get a chance to see it.

Well, the B-17 wasn't truly combat-worthy till the E model came out. It was more heavily armored, better armed, and much longer ranged than earlier models, giving it the endurance needed for long-range bombing runs. More E-models were built than all the previous models put together, and unlike those, 1 B-17E still survives to this day.

217 AK-47%  Sun, May 13, 2012 7:10:06am

re: #186 Dark_Falcon

What happened was that Boeing's B17 Flying Fortress was such a key aircraft that it and the B-29 Superfortress were all Boeing had the capacity to build. By 1943 their plant was at maximum capacity and running around the clock.

As i recall, the B-29 was also way over budget and delayed.

218 darthstar  Sun, May 13, 2012 7:10:31am

re: #216 Dark_Falcon

There's a B-17 between Vallejo and Napa...they sell rides up and down Napa Valley in it. People are able to go shit themselves with fright in it for a 10 mile loop and then talk about how great they are.

219 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, May 13, 2012 7:12:01am

re: #190 darthstar

[Link: www.cafepress.com...]

Thanks. Ordered a bumpersticker for each of our cars.

220 AK-47%  Sun, May 13, 2012 7:12:19am

re: #218 darthstar

There's a B-17 between Vallejo and Napa...they sell rides up and down Napa Valley in it. People are able to go shit themselves with fright in it for a 10 mile loop and then talk about how great they are.

Lufthansa offers panorama flights over the Rhine valley in an old vintage Ju-52. I can hear theose engines throbbing from miles away and always go outside to wathch it lumber past.

221 darthstar  Sun, May 13, 2012 7:12:31am

re: #219 William Barnett-Lewis

Thanks. Ordered a bumpersticker for each of our cars.

I hope you have 27 cars.
Thanks.

222 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 13, 2012 7:14:57am

re: #215 William Barnett-Lewis

No, it was a bad concept from day one. The Pentagon had a woodie over the ZSU-23/4 and wanted something like it for us even though the Russian one was a worthless as the one we'd try to build. It's good it got the ax early so that less money was wasted on it. If you go back and look, none of the mobile AAA guns of that era were a success.

Actually, the ZSU-23-4 wasn't a bad system but both the USAF and IAF quickly evolved tactics and weapons to beat it.

But putting the 23mm guns on a BMP-2 makes more sense anyways. Your AA units are less conspicuous (so that are less easy to pick out and target), have better armor (so they are harder to destroy (BMP-2s in Iraq survived 6-in shells used as IEDs )), and have the same automotive parts as the standard IFV (fewer systems means easier logistics, and fewer things to train the maintenance crews on).

223 Decatur Deb  Sun, May 13, 2012 7:15:45am

re: #217 Expand Your Ground

As i recall, the B-29 was also way over budget and delayed.

A-series motor overheating. That's pretty much the mark of any system that is a radical game-changer. Virtually everything introduced since the M16 has had serious problems not fixed until fielding. That splits the user community and creates a semi-permanent legend of worthlessness. See Abrams, Osprey. Some systems (M151 jeep, Gamma Goat, Goer) deserve their permanent reputations.

224 darthstar  Sun, May 13, 2012 7:18:06am
225 Decatur Deb  Sun, May 13, 2012 7:18:11am

re: #218 darthstar

There's a B-17 between Vallejo and Napa...they sell rides up and down Napa Valley in it. People are able to go shit themselves with fright in it for a 10 mile loop and then talk about how great they are.

The Collings Foundation takes a B17 and B24 on an annual national tour. Crawled all over them, but couldn't afford the $500 joyride.

226 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 13, 2012 7:19:11am

since we're talking WWII aircraft and the Curtiss fighters have been mentioned:

Frozen in the sands of time: Eerie Second World War RAF fighter plane discovered in the Sahara... 70 years after it crashed in the desert

He was hundreds of miles from civilisation, lost in the burning heat of the desert.

Second World War Flight Sergeant Dennis Copping took what little he could from the RAF Kittyhawk he had just crash-landed, then wandered into the emptiness.

From that day in June 1942 the mystery of what happened to the dentist’s son from Southend was lost, in every sense, in the sands of time.

But 70 years later, the ghostly remains of his battered but almost perfectly preserved plane has been discovered.

Like a time capsule that could provide the key to his disappearance, it had lain intact alongside a makeshift shelter Dennis appears to have made as he waited, hopelessly, for rescue.

Now a search is to begin for the airman’s remains – as aviation experts and historians begin an operation to recover and display the P-40 aircraft in his memory.

The chance find was made by an oil worker exploring a remote region of the Western Desert in Egypt. It is more than 200 miles from the nearest town in a vast expanse of largely featureless terrain.

Flight Sergeant Copping, part of a fighter unit based in Egypt during the North Africa campaign against Rommel, is believed to have lost his bearings while flying the damaged Kittyhawk to another airbase for repair. All that is known is that he went off course and was never seen again.

227 Decatur Deb  Sun, May 13, 2012 7:21:25am

re: #226 Dark_Falcon

since we're talking WWII aircraft and the Curtiss fighters have been mentioned:

Frozen in the sands of time: Eerie Second World War RAF fighter plane discovered in the Sahara... 70 years after it crashed in the desert

Antoine de Saint-Exupery and his P38 are still out there somewhere.

228 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 13, 2012 7:22:06am

re: #223 Decatur Deb

A-series motor overheating. That's pretty much the mark of any system that is a radical game-changer. Virtually everything introduced since the M16 has had serious problems not fixed until fielding. That splits the user community and creates a semi-permanent legend of worthlessness. See Abrams, Osprey. Some systems (M151 jeep, Gamma Goat, Goer) deserve their permanent reputations.

The MRAP has had some, but fewer than most. That seems to be the hallmark of the Rapid Fielding Initiative, though: The fact that the items were made to fit specific needs meant that they tend to earn good reputations if they end up filling those needs, and their flaws are forgiven owning to the need to get them into service quickly.

229 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 13, 2012 7:22:49am

re: #227 Decatur Deb

Antoine de Saint-Exupery and his P38 are still out there somewhere.

He went down over water, as I remember. Far less likely to be found.

230 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 7:24:25am

re: #224 darthstar

[Embedded content]

He's been married three times. What a surprise. Kind of fitting since we were speaking of being ripped off by the Church of the Pentagon spending and him having been the CEO of General Electric.

231 Decatur Deb  Sun, May 13, 2012 7:24:50am

re: #229 Dark_Falcon

He went down over water, as I remember. Far less likely to be found.

Sahara, I think. Will check.

Ah. Over the Med, from N. Africa:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

232 darthstar  Sun, May 13, 2012 7:25:47am

re: #230 Gus

He's been married three times. What a surprise. Kind of fitting since we were speaking of being ripped off by the Church of the Pentagon spending and him having been the CEO of General Electric.

Typical of fat cat Republicans...not satisfied making one woman miserable.

233 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 7:27:19am

re: #232 darthstar

Typical of fat cat Republicans...not satisfied making one woman miserable.

He was worth 720 million in 2006. Here he is in 2012 whining about how Barney Frank iz teh bully! Pretty strange in my book.

234 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, May 13, 2012 7:27:51am

re: #223 Decatur Deb

A-series motor overheating. That's pretty much the mark of any system that is a radical game-changer. Virtually everything introduced since the M16 has had serious problems not fixed until fielding. That splits the user community and creates a semi-permanent legend of worthlessness. See Abrams, Osprey. Some systems (M151 jeep, Gamma Goat, Goer) deserve their permanent reputations.

GAMMA GOAT! Oh, god I had forgotten that miserable POS. The Goer's were great, comparatively, as was the 151. Hell, I'd still take a 151 over a GD Hummer any day.

235 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 13, 2012 7:27:59am

re: #232 darthstar

Typical of fat cat Republicans...not satisfied making one woman miserable.

Then how about giving Mitt Romney some credit: He's still married to the first woman he married and he makes her happy, not miserable.

236 darthstar  Sun, May 13, 2012 7:28:47am

Heh...

237 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 7:29:10am

re: #236 darthstar

Heh...

[Embedded content]

Awesome.

238 Decatur Deb  Sun, May 13, 2012 7:29:32am

re: #234 William Barnett-Lewis

GAMMA GOAT! Oh, god I had forgotten that miserable POS. The Goer's were great, comparatively, as was the 151. Hell, I'd still take a 151 over a GD Hummer any day.

It was documented that a 151 flipped in a parking lot at under 20 MPH. I would (and did) take a Series III Land Rover over either of them.

239 darthstar  Sun, May 13, 2012 7:30:47am

re: #236 darthstar

Heh...

[Embedded content]

But as Josh wrapped up, with an admonition to choose the preferred slate of Mitt Romney delegates, the crowd exploded with competing boos and cheers, cutting him short.

Some attendees said they heard Paul supporters chanting outside that Mitt Romney is "the white Obama."

Read more: [Link: www.azcentral.com...]

That must be the McCain bounce the Romneys are feeling.

240 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 13, 2012 7:31:36am

re: #237 Gus

Awesome.

That ain't awesome. A sane person being mocking by a bunch of loons is not a good thing.

241 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 7:32:25am

re: #240 Dark_Falcon

That ain't awesome. A sane person being mocking by a bunch of loons is not a good thing.

Sure it is. Ron Paul is a Republican. Ergo, anyone that supports Ron Paul is a Republican. I love it. It's all part of the big tent. Hope they're enjoying it.

242 darthstar  Sun, May 13, 2012 7:33:33am

Feel the Mittmentum.

243 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 7:34:02am

See. Here's proof!

244 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, May 13, 2012 7:35:01am

re: #238 Decatur Deb

It was documented that a 151 flipped in a parking lot at under 20 MPH.

Yep, very easy to flip. Almost as easy as it was to shread the 4 wheel drive gear boxes and transmission on the first generation Hummers. I remember hitting a glancing blow on a 8" tall stump and shattering the gear box to the left front wheel. I never trusted them after that. I also expected what happened with people not understanding that the walls on the hummer wouldn't stop bullets. At least with the 151 you never could pretend you were safe and the pintle mount was fun for a 20 something scout to hang onto... ;)

245 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 7:35:10am

Derp!

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

246 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 13, 2012 7:37:28am

re: #243 Gus

See. Here's proof!

You know, Ronald Reagan signed an awful lot of pictured people took with him in his life. It doesn't mean he was close to those people, whatever he wrote on them.

247 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 7:38:00am

The moral decline of America!

Yeah. With a starting point of slavery, Jim Crow, child labor, etc. I tells ya. It's been such a sad thing to see this moral decline.

248 HappyWarrior  Sun, May 13, 2012 7:38:35am

re: #245 Gus

Derp!

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Yikes.

249 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Sun, May 13, 2012 7:39:00am

re: #227 Decatur Deb

Antoine de Saint-Exupery and his P38 are still out there somewhere.

I believe they found his P-38 wreckage in 2000 or so.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

250 Decatur Deb  Sun, May 13, 2012 7:39:38am

re: #247 Gus

The moral decline of America!

Yeah. With a starting point of slavery, Jim Crow, child labor, etc. I tells ya. It's been such a sad thing to see this moral decline.

The streams are crossing:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

251 darthstar  Sun, May 13, 2012 7:40:23am

re: #245 Gus

Derp!

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Fucker's not even American nor does he live here. I could give a rat's ass about what he thinks of our 'moral decline.'

252 HappyWarrior  Sun, May 13, 2012 7:41:45am

Yeah the whole idea that America has declined morally is such a horseshit argument on so many levels. By the way, beautiful article about one of the first gay couples to marry in Massachusetts today in the Washington Post. Good reminder to anyone why this is a good cause.
[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

253 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 13, 2012 7:42:34am

re: #250 Decatur Deb

The streams are crossing:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

No, shut the proton packs down. Those will char the troll to an inedible crisp. We need to use the nets, so we can properly roast it.

254 HappyWarrior  Sun, May 13, 2012 7:42:56am

re: #251 darthstar

Fucker's not even American nor does he live here. I could give a rat's ass about what he thinks of our 'moral decline.'

Kind of reminds me what my Dad told me about when Reverend Moon first came to this country in the 70's telling everyone that they were sinners and crap. His best friend's response and the guy was a bike messager was to xerox his ass and write SHOW YOUR MOON on the cover.

255 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 7:43:07am

re: #251 darthstar

Fucker's not even American nor does he live here. I could give a rat's ass about what he thinks of our 'moral decline.'

Apparently he seems to think of himself as a sort of "King of the Jews" as well. Weird.

256 darthstar  Sun, May 13, 2012 7:44:17am

re: #255 Gus

Apparently he seems to think of himself as a sort of "King of the Jews" as well. Weird.

Some dude tried that a couple thousand years ago...didn't work out so well for him as I recall.

257 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 13, 2012 7:45:49am

re: #256 darthstar

Some dude tried that a couple thousand years ago...didn't work out so well for him as I recall.

Mocking Jesus, on a Sunday. That's low, even for you Darth.

258 darthstar  Sun, May 13, 2012 7:46:16am

re: #255 Gus

Apparently he seems to think of himself as a sort of "King of the Jews" as well. Weird.

On second thought, I'll bet he emigrated to Israel from the US...That kind of crazy is about the only kind of crap we export these days.

259 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 7:46:36am

re: #258 darthstar

On second thought, I'll bet he emigrated to Israel from the US...That kind of crazy is about the only kind of crap we export these days.

Probably from Brooklyn.

260 darthstar  Sun, May 13, 2012 7:47:06am

re: #257 Dark_Falcon

Mocking Jesus, on a Sunday. That's low, even for you Darth.

I at least showed respect not to mock his unwed mother on Mothers' Day.

261 darthstar  Sun, May 13, 2012 7:47:53am

re: #260 darthstar

I at least showed respect not to mock his unwed mother on Mothers' Day.

Hang on...how was that mocking?

262 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 13, 2012 7:48:33am

re: #258 darthstar

On second thought, I'll bet he emigrated to Israel from the US...That kind of crazy is about the only kind of crap we export these days.

Well, we also export firearms and tanks, but those are of high quality.

263 darthstar  Sun, May 13, 2012 7:48:46am

Keep downdinging me like that and I'm going to start thinking you have an unhealthy crush on me.

264 darthstar  Sun, May 13, 2012 7:51:37am
265 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 13, 2012 7:56:25am

re: #264 darthstar

[Embedded content]

I'd rather he kept the politics out of the vid, but it was upbeat and quite good.

266 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 7:56:35am

Splodey heads!

267 darthstar  Sun, May 13, 2012 7:57:27am

re: #266 Gus

Splodey heads!

[Embedded content]

And on a Sunday! OMFGZ!

268 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Sun, May 13, 2012 7:57:33am

re: #231 Decatur Deb

Sahara, I think. Will check.

Ah. Over the Med, from N. Africa:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Easy to get crossed up since he did crash in the Sahara in the 30s - but survived it.

269 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 8:00:51am

Oh jeez...

Ya think?

270 allegro  Sun, May 13, 2012 8:03:04am

I think we are seeing a great moral decline and that it is indeed doing tremendous damage to our society and culture. It's called vulture capitalism, it's making "corporations are people" the law of the land, it's valuing the dollar more than the lives of our citizenry.

That's the moral decline. Not loving couples of any gender variety who simply want their full rights as citizens.

271 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 13, 2012 8:03:11am

re: #269 Gus

Oh jeez...

[Embedded content] Ya think?

Well, give him some credit, Gus; At least he admitted he was wrong. In this day and age that's fairly rare.

272 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 13, 2012 8:04:05am

re: #270 allegro

What's "vulture capitalism"? I hear that throw around a lot, but I have not heard it defined.

273 darthstar  Sun, May 13, 2012 8:06:05am

re: #272 Dark_Falcon

What's "vulture capitalism"? I hear that throw around a lot, but I have not heard it defined.

Make a profit at any cost. Outsource jobs to save money, import raw materials to save money. Run up a bunch of debt on the company credit line then shut it down and liquidate all the assets - thus making a big profit while fucking over everyone who works for you.

You know...what Mitt Romney did for a living before becoming a perpetual candidate.

274 allegro  Sun, May 13, 2012 8:06:57am

re: #272 Dark_Falcon

What's "vulture capitalism"? I hear that throw around a lot, but I have not heard it defined.

See Romney, Mitt and Bain Capital for the business model. It is buying successful companies and stripping them down, forcing them into bankruptcy, destroying the companies, while profiting from that destruction.

275 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 8:08:46am

The Tweet of Liberty must sometimes be watered with teh blood of tyrants!!!

#TwitterGulag

276 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 13, 2012 8:08:46am

re: #269 Gus

Oh jeez...

[Embedded content] Ya think?

This is an excellent article by NR's Kevin D. Williamson where he talks about credit default swaps. He lays into Mitt Romney pretty hard, but the regulatory problem he points to is very real.

277 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 13, 2012 8:09:57am

re: #274 allegro

See Romney, Mitt and Bain Capital for the business model. It is buying successful companies and stripping them down, forcing them into bankruptcy, destroying the companies, while profiting from that destruction.

You're going to have to prove those allegations for your definition to have any validity.

278 darthstar  Sun, May 13, 2012 8:11:20am

re: #277 Dark_Falcon

You're going to have to prove those allegations for your definition to have any validity.

Have you ever thought about getting a job at Staples? They've got an easy button, you know.

279 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 8:11:48am

re: #277 Dark_Falcon

You're going to have to prove those allegations for your definition to have any validity.

Private equity firms. Essentially they'll make money off the bones of a dead company. Much like a vulture. Now to be fair I suppose not all companies die because of private equity firms however many do.

280 darthstar  Sun, May 13, 2012 8:12:09am

re: #277 Dark_Falcon

You're going to have to prove those allegations for your definition to have any validity.

wrong link....never mind.

281 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 13, 2012 8:13:48am

re: #278 darthstar

Have you ever thought about getting a job at Staples? They've got an easy button, you know.

I worked for Officemax, actually. Office supply retail doesn't pay enough for me and you have to be on your feet all day. :P

282 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 8:13:57am

Oops. Forgot about this one...

Derp II

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

283 Iwouldprefernotto  Sun, May 13, 2012 8:14:06am

re: #277 Dark_Falcon

You're going to have to prove those allegations for your definition to have any validity.

They purchased companies, gave themselves huge bonuses, and two years latter the companies were out of business. And yes, they kept the bonuses. That's vulture capitalism.

284 darthstar  Sun, May 13, 2012 8:14:37am

re: #280 darthstar

wrong link...never mind.

[Link: www.kingofbain.com...]

There...no reading required.

285 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 13, 2012 8:15:31am

re: #280 darthstar

[Link: finance.fortune.cnn.com...]

The article that comes up actually defends Romney from a Donk attack. So thank you much for that!

286 darthstar  Sun, May 13, 2012 8:16:29am

re: #285 Dark_Falcon

The article that comes up actually defends Romney from a Donk attack. So thank you much for that!

Yeah...shit happens. Too many tabs open at one time.

287 allegro  Sun, May 13, 2012 8:16:40am

re: #277 Dark_Falcon

You're going to have to prove those allegations for your definition to have any validity.

Mitt Romney and Bain Capital Represent Everything You Hate About Capitalism

Mitt Romney and Bain Capital

The two faces of Mitt Romney and Bain Capital

Want more? There's plenty.

288 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 13, 2012 8:18:35am

re: #282 Gus

Oops. Forgot about this one...

Derp II

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

The guys a dead threader. 7 posts in over two years.

289 AK-47%  Sun, May 13, 2012 8:19:04am

re: #287 allegro

Mitt Romney and Bain Capital Represent Everything You Hate About Capitalism

Mitt Romney and Bain Capital

The two faces of Mitt Romney and Bain Capital

Want more? There's plenty.

And Mitt is a man who represents the viewpoint that corporations are people and that we need to run the country like a business.

He has made it clear what sort of business model he has in mind and which sort of "people" he prefers, the corporate ones or the ones with families to feed and morgagages to pay...

290 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 8:19:44am

re: #288 Dark_Falcon

The guys a dead threader. 7 posts in over two years.

Seems like a creep.

291 darthstar  Sun, May 13, 2012 8:20:33am

Back when Sesame Street was cool...(before Elmo)

Youtube Video
292 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 13, 2012 8:20:50am

re: #290 Gus

Seems like a creep.

They still exist on LGF in modest numbers, Gus. some people prefer to just drop in their comments at the end and not face off with other posters.

293 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, May 13, 2012 8:21:46am

re: #272 Dark_Falcon

What's "vulture capitalism"? I hear that throw around a lot, but I have not heard it defined.

Bain is an example - the destruction of small business and jobs for the profit of larger corporations, off-shoring jobs to the lowest bidder despite equally lowered quality, and so forth. It's a term designed to showcase the worst elements of modern capitalist excess.

294 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 8:24:37am

re: #291 darthstar

Back when Sesame Street was cool...(before Elmo)

[Embedded content]

Back when you could buy a bolt of cloth and either use it to make curtains, reupholster a sofa, or to make a shirt.

//

295 Varek Raith  Sun, May 13, 2012 8:25:37am

re: #294 Gus

Back when you could buy a bolt of cloth and either use it to make curtains, reupholster a sofa, or to make a shirt.

//

Whoa there, Eli Whitney!

296 AK-47%  Sun, May 13, 2012 8:27:20am

re: #293 William Barnett-Lewis

Bain is an example - the destruction of small business and jobs for the profit of larger corporations, off-shoring jobs to the lowest bidder despite equally lowered quality, and so forth. It's a term designed to showcase the worst elements of modern capitalist excess.

Supply-side capitalism is based on the notion that lowering taxes and regulations on business will encourage them to invest in jobs that benefit everyone.

That might have worked back in the days of national economies, but now that capital is much more free to follow the path of highest short-term returns, then those jobs are going to go to the countires with the cheapest labor and weakest regulations.

And all we get are minimum-wage jobs at the Wal-Mart selling cheap imported goods made overseas by US companies.

297 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 8:32:03am

re: #296 Expand Your Ground

Supply-side capitalism is based on the notion that lowering taxes and regulations on business will encourage them to invest in jobs that benefit everyone.

That might have worked back in the days of national economies, but now that capital is much more free to follow the path of highest short-term returns, then those jobs are going to go to the countires with the cheapest labor and weakest regulations.

And all we get are minimum-wage jobs at the Wal-Mart selling cheap imported goods made overseas by US companies.

Manufacture low, sell high. It's not just Walmart either. You can include Apple, ASUS, Cadillac, etc.

298 AK-47%  Sun, May 13, 2012 8:37:20am

re: #297 Gus

Manufacture low, sell high. It's not just Walmart either. You can include Apple, ASUS, Cadillac, etc.

that was jut the first example that came to mind. at least apple generates a few high-end job in software design.

299 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, May 13, 2012 8:41:15am

re: #298 Expand Your Ground

that was jut the first example that came to mind. at least apple generates a few high-end job in software design.

The majority of the industrial design is done in Cupertino as well. But all the manufacturing is offshore :(

300 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 8:42:58am

re: #299 William Barnett-Lewis

The majority of the industrial design is done in Cupertino as well. But all the manufacturing is offshore :(

Where else can we get 1930s wages? OK. Maybe it's more like 1940s wages.

301 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 13, 2012 8:43:48am

re: #297 Gus

Manufacture low, sell high. It's not just Walmart either. You can include Apple, ASUS, Cadillac, etc.

"Manufacture low, sell high" has been a business maxim for as long as there have been businesses. That's how owners make profits.

302 Obdicut  Sun, May 13, 2012 8:45:50am

re: #274 allegro

See Romney, Mitt and Bain Capital for the business model. It is buying successful companies and stripping them down, forcing them into bankruptcy, destroying the companies, while profiting from that destruction.

That's not their only business model. They also bought unsuccessful or struggling companies, and loaded them with debt which they used to pay back the money Bain invested. The companies sometimes went under after this, sometimes struggled and survived. They've also invested in the more standard fashion, simply providing capital for a small business to help it grow larger.

303 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 8:46:56am

re: #301 Dark_Falcon

"Manufacture low, sell high" has been a business maxim for as long as there have been businesses. That's how owners make profits.

Yes. But now it's manufacture really low. There used to be a pride in the industrialists about creating jobs for their fellow countrymen. Those industrialists and businessmen never expected to become as rich as these scoundrels do today. The J Paul Getty's were few and far in between. Something changed over a period of time. Now everyone in manufacturing and industry wants more than ever. Some like in the financial industry want to make profits from un-productive money making schemes like derivatives. Yes, build low and sell high. Find a 3rd world country were they can maximize their profits with wages equal to US wages in the 1940s or 1950s.

304 AK-47%  Sun, May 13, 2012 8:47:04am

re: #301 Dark_Falcon

"Manufacture low, sell high" has been a business maxim for as long as there have been businesses. That's how owners make profits.

To a degree. There was a famous anecdote of how the GM boss brought in the union boss to whos off their new fully automated production lines.

"You don't see a single union member in there," bragged the boss.

"And I don't see a single customer for your products in there, either," replied the union boss.

305 Killgore Trout  Sun, May 13, 2012 8:54:19am

Drones!
21 militants killed in US drone strikes in Yemen

At least 21 suspected al-Qaida militants were killed when US drones fired missiles at two convoys and a hideout in Yemen, Xinhua reported.

One drone fired rockets at a convoy of three pick-up trucks travelling on a desert road in Hareeb area of Shabwa province. Seven militants were killed and all the three vehicles were destroyed.

The al-Qaida militants were reportedly planning to attend a meeting in the area.

306 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 8:54:26am

And the reason that the cost of production in China is so low is because of the communist system. If China was a free and democratic state they wouldn't stand for it.

307 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 13, 2012 8:55:29am

re: #305 Killgore Trout

Drones!
21 militants killed in US drone strikes in Yemen

Good riddance to bad rubbish!

308 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 13, 2012 9:01:38am

A little something non-hostile to Romney:

Having linked to William Galston on anti-Bainism yesterday, I wanted to share a different perspective, from Jeffrey Friedman. Friedman is, among other things, the editor of the always-provocative interdisciplinary journal Critical Review and the co-author, with Wladimir Kraus, of Engineering the Financial Crisis, an indispensable guide to understanding how poorly-designed capital rules may have exacerbated financial instability and, more broadly, a valuable contribution to normative political theory.

Friedman asks whether or not Romney is pursuing exactly the wrong strategy with regards to his role at Bain Capital. Rather than offer an inch-by-inch defense, rooted in the fate of one or several of the firms in which Bain Capital played a role, Friedman tentatively suggests that Romney, and his allies, embrace a broader approach:

"Don’t you think that in this case, for once, the best tactic (for Romney) might be to make an argument about the real rationale for capitalism–which is not at the level of this or that firm or employee, but economy-wide?

"It’s an abstract argument, to be sure, but the point would be: “Even if every company that Bain made more efficient did that by cutting jobs, the money consumers saved by being able to buy those companies’ products at a lower price would have been spent on other products, increasing employment at those other companies.”"

309 sattv4u2  Sun, May 13, 2012 9:01:59am

re: #305 Killgore Trout

Seven militants were killed and all the three vehicles were destroyed.

re: #307 Dark_Falcon

Good riddance to bad rubbish!

Three very good Toyota pick up trucks, wasted!!

310 sattv4u2  Sun, May 13, 2012 9:03:18am

re: #305 Killgore Trout

Are you seeing a fix to your algae problem yet?

311 AK-47%  Sun, May 13, 2012 9:04:00am

re: #306 Gus

And the reason that the cost of production in China is so low is because of the communist system. If China was a free and democratic state they wouldn't stand for it.

I don't see how wages and working conditions would be much different under another system.

Another reason for low production costs are the very lax environmental and safety standards. And that ain't just communism, that is also the Free Market capitalist ideal.

These people are beating us out at our own game and letting them play us like a violin.

312 allegro  Sun, May 13, 2012 9:04:18am

re: #308 Dark_Falcon

"It’s an abstract argument, to be sure, but the point would be: “Even if every company that Bain made more efficient did that by cutting jobs, the money consumers saved by being able to buy those companies’ products at a lower price would have been spent on other products, increasing employment at those other companies.”"

That's the best they can do? The most positive thing they can come up with in defense? Talk about weak.

313 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 13, 2012 9:07:14am

re: #312 allegro

That's the best they can do? The most positive thing they can come up with in defense? Talk about weak.

No, it's something I came across while search for another NR article I linked to upthread. But it was right to hand and on point, so I post the link.

314 Killgore Trout  Sun, May 13, 2012 9:07:54am

re: #310 sattv4u2

Are you seeing a fix to your algae problem yet?

Yeah, it's clearing up a bit already. There are still a few small patches if thick string algae but those should be gone in the next day or two.

315 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 9:07:54am

re: #311 Expand Your Ground

I don't see how wages and working conditions would be much different under another system.

Another reason for low production costs are the very lax environmental and safety standards. And that ain't just communism, that is also the Free Market capitalist ideal.

These people are beating us out at our own game and letting them play us like a violin.

I don't agree. It's because of the large scale communal living conditions. Mass housing, etc. I also don't agree that they're playing us like a violin. It's a mutual relationship between the communist party in China and American businessmen. They love it.

316 AK-47%  Sun, May 13, 2012 9:11:12am

re: #315 Gus

I don't agree. It's because of the large scale communal living conditions. Mass housing, etc. I also don't agree that they're playing us like a violin. It's a mutual relationship between the communist party in China and American businessmen. They love it.

Why would living conditions be radically different under another system? Being capitalist does not mean we all get to live in single-family housing...

If you mean "totalitarian" or "authoritarian", then it makes sense, but there are lots of authoritarian systems that are not communist.

And when I say "they are scamming us" of course I mean that it would not work with full-on collusion from the US business community.

317 sattv4u2  Sun, May 13, 2012 9:11:49am

re: #314 Killgore Trout

Yeah, it's clearing up a bit already. There are still a few small patches if thick string algae but those should be gone in the next day or two.

SAVE THE WHALES TADPOLES!!!

318 jaunte  Sun, May 13, 2012 9:13:49am

re: #314 Killgore Trout

I was about to ask you how the straw method worked to control pond algae, but I found this ag agency document: [Link: www.exit109.com...]
(for any other pond managers out there).

319 sattv4u2  Sun, May 13, 2012 9:15:24am

re: #318 jaunte

(for any other pond managers out there).

Thanks

I'm not a pond manager but it is raining here and I do have a puddle out back thats starting to concern me!!
/

320 Dark_Falcon  Sun, May 13, 2012 9:21:29am

Things are quiet here, so I'm going to sign off for now and get ready to go meet my parents for Mother's Day brunch.

321 sattv4u2  Sun, May 13, 2012 9:21:46am

DinnerJackets new military strategy


"The destruction of the Zionist regime does not necessitate making war," he said in a speech during a tour of northeast Iran.

"If countries of the region cut ties with the Zionists and give them dirty looks, it will spell the end of this puppet regime,"

[Link: ca.news.yahoo.com...]

322 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, May 13, 2012 9:22:08am

Many bright blessings on you and them today DF. Have a good meal.

323 Killgore Trout  Sun, May 13, 2012 9:26:27am

re: #318 jaunte

I was about to ask you how the straw method worked to control pond algae, but I found this ag agency document: [Link: www.exit109.com...]
(for any other pond managers out there).

It works very well and is damn cheap too. I used to use hydrogen peroxide. It works well too but it's expensive and has the side effect that once the algae is gone the snails and other water creatures don't have enough food. The straw serves the dual purpose of killing the algae as well as providing a replacement food source once the algae is gone. Keeps the ecosystem in balance.

324 jaunte  Sun, May 13, 2012 9:26:29am

86-year-old man turns island into tortoise sanctuary

Back in 1962, Brendon Grimshaw bought Moyenne Island, in the Seychelles, for £8,000 (which at the time would have been about $22,000). He started living there in 1972, and since that time he’s been the island’s only permanent resident — aside from the 120 giant tortoises for whom Grimshaw’s island is a sanctuary.

325 darthstar  Sun, May 13, 2012 9:28:17am

Most re-tweeted tweet about Mitt Romney in the last 24 hours.

326 sattv4u2  Sun, May 13, 2012 9:29:20am

re: #323 Killgore Trout

Keeps the ecosystem in balance.
Me ,,, I use bran muffins and prune juice!
/

327 Ming  Sun, May 13, 2012 9:29:51am

re: #272 Dark_Falcon

What's "vulture capitalism"? I hear that throw around a lot, but I have not heard it defined.

About "vulture capitalism", I'm not sure the word "capitalism" is appropriate, because "vulture capitalism", as I've heard about it in regard to Bain, takes advantage of (1) government rules and regulations and (2) lack of appropriate government oversight. (1) is more like socialism, and (2) is simple theft, or a "prank". For example, Bain Capital buys a company, borrows against the company assets in such a way that its tax burden is reduced (maybe to zero, or maybe they get tax credits), sells the company for a profit (without disclosing that the company is now in bad financial shape), and a few months later the company is gone.

This is a pedantic point, but the word "capitalism" seems not-quite right.

328 Killgore Trout  Sun, May 13, 2012 9:30:42am

re: #321 sattv4u2

DinnerJackets new military strategy

"The destruction of the Zionist regime does not necessitate making war," he said in a speech during a tour of northeast Iran.

"If countries of the region cut ties with the Zionists and give them dirty looks, it will spell the end of this puppet regime,"

[Link: ca.news.yahoo.com...]

I like this part...

The president on Saturday also mocked Saudi Arabia and other oil-rich Arab states of the Gulf over their huge oil contracts with the West, especially Israel's US ally.
"If the leaders of these countries had some brains, they would not sell their petrol just to buy 60 billion dollars worth of arms," he said.

That's because the Saudis, UAE, Bahrain and pretty much everyone else in the region is stocking up in case the Iranians keep expanding their interests in the gulf.

329 darthstar  Sun, May 13, 2012 9:31:35am

re: #321 sattv4u2

DinnerJackets new military strategy

"The destruction of the Zionist regime does not necessitate making war," he said in a speech during a tour of northeast Iran.

"If countries of the region cut ties with the Zionists and give them dirty looks, it will spell the end of this puppet regime,"

[Link: ca.news.yahoo.com...]

Nonviolence...some people will see that as reason for a first strike.

330 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 9:31:48am

Burp.

331 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, May 13, 2012 9:32:36am

Life mag, Dec. 1941. Yes, everything you can expect from that month's issue.


[Link: www.english.illinois.edu...]

332 darthstar  Sun, May 13, 2012 9:33:20am

re: #327 Ming

Obviously this is a pedantic point, but the word "capitalism" seems not-quite right. Maybe "prank" is better.

It was just a prank, really...I didn't like his hair, so I had my dad buy his dad's employer and liquidate the company. No blood, no foul.

333 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 9:34:48am

re: #331 May Day! May Day!

Life mag, Dec. 1941. Yes, everything you can expect from that month's issue.

[Link: www.english.illinois.edu...]

Oh dear.

334 sattv4u2  Sun, May 13, 2012 9:35:30am

re: #329 darthstar

Nonviolence...some people will see that as reason for a first strike.

I'm sure all the countries in the region have now breathed a huge sigh of relief now that Mahmoud has stated the worst he'll do is put his thumbs in his ears, waggle his fingers and give the raspberry in the general direction of Israel

335 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 9:36:53am

re: #331 May Day! May Day!

Life mag, Dec. 1941. Yes, everything you can expect from that month's issue.

[Link: www.english.illinois.edu...]

...

Before attacking an Asian person whom you may think is Japanese be sure to follow these simple rules for identifying the true Niponese!

336 AK-47%  Sun, May 13, 2012 9:38:00am

re: #333 Gus

Oh dear.

My buddy had an old collection of Life magazines from 1940-onwards.

One thing that struck me from reading them was that although we were militarily unprepared for WWII to a great extent, US industry was already fully tooling up for it and ready to meet demand.

337 AK-47%  Sun, May 13, 2012 9:41:30am

re: #335 Gus

...

There was a dialogue from "All in the Family" between the bigoted Archie Bunker and his liberal son-in-law, Mike, in which Archie insisted there was no real difference between "Nips and Chinks".

To which Mike replied, "I would talk to them, and get to know them, that's how I would find out!"

Archie respnded, "Yeah, I'd talk to them, too, I'd ask Which one of youse is a Nip and which one is a Chink?"

338 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 9:41:40am

THE IRANIANS ARE TAKING OVER THE MIDDLE EAST! ATTACK NOW BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE!!!!!

339 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, May 13, 2012 9:42:48am

re: #336 Expand Your Ground

My buddy had an old collection of Life magazines from 1940-onwards.

One thing that struck me from reading them was that although we were militarily unprepared for WWII to a great extent, US industry was already fully tooling up for it and ready to meet demand.

We were selling a lot to France & Great Britain by then and even as the English went broke came the master stroke of Lend-Lease. WWII would have taken much longer and cost even more lives had we not been 3/4 of the way to a war industrial footing on Dec 7.

340 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 9:43:06am

re: #337 Expand Your Ground

There was a dialogue from "All in the Family" between the bigoted Archie Bunker and his liberal son-in-law, Mike, in which Archie insisted there was no real difference between "Nips and Chinks".

To which Mike replied, "I would talk to them, and get to know them, that's how I would find out!"

Archie respnded, "Yeah, I'd talk to them, too, I'd ask Which one of youse is a Nip and which one is a Chink?"

Saw that clip about a month ago. Carroll O'Connor was a genius.

341 sattv4u2  Sun, May 13, 2012 9:43:41am

re: #338 Gus

Did you break your ankles after that Conclusion Jump?

342 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 9:44:06am

re: #341 sattv4u2

Did you break your ankles after that Conclusion Jump?

There's an ointment for that.

343 Kronocide  Sun, May 13, 2012 9:45:00am

re: #342 Gus

There's an ointment for that.

Sarcasm Salve.

344 AK-47%  Sun, May 13, 2012 9:45:04am

re: #339 William Barnett-Lewis

We were selling a lot to France & Great Britain by then and even as the English went broke came the master stroke of Lend-Lease. WWII would have taken much longer and cost even more lives had we not been 3/4 of the way to a war industrial footing on Dec 7.

Hitler once chided his generals for "not understanding the economics of war."

He himself did not understand the idea of a war of economics.

345 Killgore Trout  Sun, May 13, 2012 9:50:35am

Iran: Cartoonist sentenced to 25 lashes

346 sattv4u2  Sun, May 13, 2012 9:52:04am

re: #345 Killgore Trout

Iran: Cartoonist sentenced to 25 lashes

Maybe Mahmoud will just make faces at him instead!

347 darthstar  Sun, May 13, 2012 9:52:25am

GOP is doubling down on bigotry to help keep Mitt from looking like the only fool in town.

348 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, May 13, 2012 9:53:53am

re: #344 Expand Your Ground

Hitler once chided his generals for "not understanding the economics of war."

He himself did not understand the idea of a war of economics.

If you haven't yet, read "The Wages of Destruction: The Making and Breaking of the Nazi Economy" by Adam Tooze. It is simply the finest explanation of the economics of WWII and why Hitler was doomed before he began that I have ever read. 10 star book on a 5 star scale.

[Link: www.amazon.com...]

I wish it were required reading for the Republicans in congress...

349 darthstar  Sun, May 13, 2012 9:54:47am

re: #345 Killgore Trout

Iran: Cartoonist sentenced to 25 lashes

Could be worse...they could have painted 20 nails.

350 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 9:56:14am

re: #349 darthstar

Could be worse...they could have painted 20 nails.

What's that?

351 sattv4u2  Sun, May 13, 2012 9:57:31am

re: #350 Gus

What's that?

Whats what
Paint, or nails?

352 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 9:58:47am

re: #347 darthstar

GOP is doubling down on bigotry to help keep Mitt from looking like the only fool in town.

[Embedded content]

Classic. If you have to amend the Constitution to "ban" gay marriage that means gay marriage is allowed under the Constitution. Not sure if we ever created an amendment to limit the rights of people. This has been done however to state constitutions in which they amended it to ban interracial marriage.

353 AK-47%  Sun, May 13, 2012 9:59:20am

re: #348 William Barnett-Lewis

If you haven't yet, read "The Wages of Destruction: The Making and Breaking of the Nazi Economy" by Adam Tooze. It is simply the finest explanation of the economics of WWII and why Hitler was doomed before he began that I have ever read. 10 star book on a 5 star scale.

[Link: www.amazon.com...]

I wish it were required reading for the Republicans in congress...

Just the kinda stuff I loves reading.

354 Kronocide  Sun, May 13, 2012 9:59:40am

The constitution is not a living breathing document!

355 AK-47%  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:00:17am

re: #354 Kronocide

The constitution is not a living breathing document!

It was dictated to us by Jesus, remember? I have the painting to prove it!

356 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:00:26am

re: #354 Kronocide

The constitution is not a living breathing document!

Only when the American-Taliban deems it as such.

357 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:00:49am

re: #355 Expand Your Ground

It was dictated to us by Jesus, remember? I have the painting to prove it!

Is that one of those velvet paintings?

358 darthstar  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:01:30am

re: #354 Kronocide

The constitution is not a living breathing document!

If it was, it would probably be gay. /

359 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:02:04am

What in hell...

360 darthstar  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:02:20am

re: #357 Gus

Is that one of those velvet paintings?

I always wanted a velvet Elvis painting...I'd put it at the end of the hall, under a black light.

361 sattv4u2  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:03:17am

re: #360 darthstar

I always wanted a velvet Elvis painting...I'd put it at the end of the hall, under a black light.

Image: velvet%2Belvis%2Band%2Bjesus.jpg

Don't say I never gave you anything!

362 sattv4u2  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:03:30am

re: #361 sattv4u2

DAMMIT!

363 darthstar  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:03:51am

re: #359 Gus

What in hell...

[Embedded content]

You're only supposed to tell that joke in the safety of closed chambers!

364 darthstar  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:04:15am

re: #361 sattv4u2

Image: velvet%2Belvis%2Band%2Bjesus.jpg

Don't say I never gave you anything!

You didn't give me anything.

365 AK-47%  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:04:20am

re: #357 Gus

Is that one of those velvet paintings?

NO, it is Sean Hannity's favorite artist, John McNaughton

366 sattv4u2  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:04:41am

re: #361 sattv4u2

Image: velvet%2Belvis%2Band%2Bjesus.jpg

Don't say I never gave you anything!

Image: elvis.jpg

did now!!

367 darthstar  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:05:26am

re: #366 sattv4u2

Image: elvis.jpg

did now!!

Awesome.

368 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:05:37am

re: #365 Expand Your Ground

NO, it is Sean hannity's favorite artist, John Mcnaughton

Professor

He tightly holds his "Origin of Species" book by Charles Darwin. This represents the liberal left's control of our educational system. His smug expression describes the attitude of many of the educational elite. There is no room for God in education. There is contempt for any other viewpoints. Humanism dominates the educational system of America and I believe that is wrong. Notice that he is the only one sitting on the top step. He tries to place himself on an equal footing with God, but he is still nothing next to the intelligence of the Creator.

369 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:05:38am

re: #354 Kronocide

The constitution is not a living breathing document!

Whatever it is, do not let it eat garlic!

370 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:06:08am

re: #369 May Day! May Day!

Whatever it is, do not let it eat garlic!

Man. That's like Cosmic X dude.

//

371 sattv4u2  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:06:22am

re: #367 darthstar

Awesome.

You're on your own re: the black light, and the hall for that matter

372 AK-47%  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:06:39am

re: #368 Gus

Professor

"Humanism dominates the educational system of America and I believe that is wrong."

Christ was not a humanist, was he?

373 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:08:37am

re: #372 Expand Your Ground

Christ was not a humanist, was he?

He wasn't.

374 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:09:03am

re: #372 Expand Your Ground

"Humanism dominates the educational system of America and I believe that is wrong."

Christ was not a humanist, was he?

I think he's thinking "Staten Island Jesus."

//

375 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:09:50am
Humanism is an approach in study, philosophy, world view, or practice that focuses on human values and concerns, attaching prime importance to human rather than divine or supernatural matters.
376 darthstar  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:11:11am

Careful, people...I made a comment about Jesus without even using his name and got my ass downdinged by DF for mocking on a Sunday. I'm still sore from that one (he's got an enormous downdinger)

377 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:11:46am

Is There a Romney Doctrine?
By DAVID E. SANGER
Published: May 12, 2012

“There are two very different worldviews in this campaign,” said one adviser who aligns more often with Mr. Bolton. “But as in any campaign, there are outer circles, inner circles and inner-inner circles, and I’m not sure that anyone knows if the candidate has a strong view of his own on this.” Another adviser, saying he would be “cashiered” if the campaign caught him talking to a reporter without approval, said the real answer was that “Romney doesn’t want to really engage these issues until he is in office” and for now was “just happy to leave the impression that when Obama says he’ll stop an Iranian bomb he doesn’t mean it, and Mitt does.

Yeesh. With the added flavor of freaking Bolton. Think I'm gonna be sick.

378 Varek Raith  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:12:22am

re: #376 darthstar

Careful, people...I made a comment about Jesus without even using his name and got my ass downdinged by DF for mocking on a Sunday. I'm still sore from that one (he's got an enormous downdinger)

I warned you not to drop the soap around Jesus....
Hell is nice this time of year. :P

379 darthstar  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:12:56am

re: #377 Gus

“There are two very different worldviews in this campaign,” and in any given sentence Mitt speaks, you are likely to hear both of them.

380 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:13:55am

re: #376 darthstar

Careful, people...I made a comment about Jesus without even using his name and got my ass downdinged by DF for mocking on a Sunday. I'm still sore from that one (he's got an enormous downdinger)

Wing ding, sweet pudding.

381 The Left  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:13:58am

re: #376 darthstar

Careful, people...I made a comment about Jesus without even using his name and got my ass downdinged by DF for mocking on a Sunday. I'm still sore from that one (he's got an enormous downdinger)

You need Dr Butthurt's Downding Ointment!

Youtube Video
382 sattv4u2  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:14:39am

[Link: abcnews.go.com...]
The study of a study of studies began in 2010 when Defense Secretary Robert Gates complained that his department was “awash in taskings for reports and studies.”

I'll have to study this more before I have an opinion!

383 darthstar  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:15:34am

re: #382 sattv4u2

[Link: abcnews.go.com...]
The study of a study of studies began in 2010 when Defense Secretary Robert Gates complained that his department was “awash in taskings for reports and studies.”

I'll have to study this more before I have an opinion!

The department of redundancy department.

384 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:15:46am

re: #381 Millicent Islam

You need Dr Butthurt's Downding Ointment!

[Embedded content]

LOL Funny. Who made the 3d ointment tube?

385 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:16:17am

re: #379 darthstar

“There are two very different worldviews in this campaign,” and in any given sentence Mitt speaks, you are likely to hear both of them.

Hence the cartoon:

Image: 13COVERSUB-popup.jpg

386 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:16:26am

re: #384 Gus

LOL Funny. Who made the 3d ointment tube?

If we omit certain insignificant causal links, God.

387 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:17:03am

re: #386 May Day! May Day!

If we omit certain insignificant causal links, God.

True. I can't prove you wrong so therefore I will accept your conclusion.

//

388 Varek Raith  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:18:49am

re: #385 Gus

Hence the cartoon:

Image: 13COVERSUB-popup.jpg

Batman > Superman.
That is all.

389 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:19:30am

re: #388 Varek Raith

Batman > Superman.
That is all.

Apples and oranges! Hammers and screwdrivers!
-- Mitt Romney

390 AK-47%  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:19:57am

re: #375 May Day! May Day!

"Humanism is an approach in study, philosophy, world view, or practice that focuses on human values and concerns, attaching prime importance to human rather than divine or supernatural matters."

You mean things like "The Sabbath was made for man, man was not made for the Sabbath"?

391 sattv4u2  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:20:22am

Rain has stopped
Dogs need out
I need food

That is all!

392 darthstar  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:21:25am

re: #388 Varek Raith

Batman > Superman.
That is all.

I went back and forth on the Ketchup v. Mustard thing...loved Mustard until I put so much on my Tuesday hot dog and made a mess of myself and the bench and everything else I touched, so the nuns banned me from putting mustard on my hot dogs...so I switched to ketchup. I was seven years old at the time, and I still remember it. And Mitt Romney can't remember torturing some guy?...but I digress...

393 darthstar  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:21:51am

re: #391 sattv4u2

Relax..it'll rain again soon.

394 sattv4u2  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:22:27am

re: #393 darthstar

Relax..it'll rain again soon.

Hope not

I'm not nearly done with the ark yet!

396 AK-47%  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:22:53am

re: #392 darthstar

I went back and forth on the Ketchup v. Mustard thing...loved Mustard until I put so much on my Tuesday hot dog and made a mess of myself and the bench and everything else I touched, so the nuns banned me from putting mustard on my hot dogs...so I switched to ketchup. I was seven years old at the time, and I still remember it. And Mitt Romney can't remember torturing some guy?...but I digress...

I was bullied and picked on a lot as a kid. And yet I also remember bullying (well, not physically) Fritz Schnick, one of the few kids in the school who was a bigger nerd that I was...

397 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:22:55am

Video not yet vetted for Communism!

398 darthstar  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:23:41am

re: #394 sattv4u2

Hope not

I'm not nearly done with the ark yet!

If he could fish worth a damn Noah would have built a canoe and been done with it in a weekend.

399 darthstar  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:25:12am

re: #396 Expand Your Ground

I was bullied and picked on a lot as a kid. And yet I also remember bullying (well, not physically) Fritz Schnick, one of the few kids in the school who was a bigger nerd that I was...

Mitt Romney won't remember his past because he'd have to apologize for it.

400 Kronocide  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:26:32am

I regret not bullying more in my youth. I would have been a better leader.

401 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:26:56am

Wut?

[Link: twitter.com...]

402 Varek Raith  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:27:30am

re: #401 Gus

Wut?

[Link: twitter.com...]

Gay.

403 Kronocide  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:27:35am

I don't remember my past, but in case I offended anyone, I apologize.

Incase Apology.

404 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:27:40am

re: #401 Gus

Wut?

405 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:28:04am

re: #402 Varek Raith

Gay.

Dumb.

406 jaunte  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:28:17am

re: #376 darthstar

Careful, people...I made a comment about Jesus without even using his name and got my ass downdinged by DF for mocking on a Sunday. I'm still sore from that one (he's got an enormous downdinger)

Just don't say anything bad about the sun on Sunnudagr.

407 darthstar  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:28:27am

re: #401 Gus

Wut?

[Link: twitter.com...]

Nice gaylo.

408 The Left  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:28:40am

re: #384 Gus

LOL Funny. Who made the 3d ointment tube?

Jimmah!

409 darthstar  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:30:05am

re: #404 Gus

They should have used the picture of Obama riding a unicorn and firing rainbow lazers from his fingers.

410 bratwurst  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:30:06am

re: #401 Gus

Wut?

[Link: twitter.com...]

Good grief...now the two increasingly irrelevant major domestic news weeklies are locked in a "shocking" cover duel. Meanwhile, anyone who actually cares about NEWS has long since moved their money and eyeballs over to The Economist.

411 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:30:55am

re: #410 bratwurst

Good grief...now the two increasingly irrelevant major domestic news weeklies are locked in a "shocking" cover duel. Meanwhile, anyone who actually cares about NEWS has long since moved their money and eyeballs over to The Economist.

Seriously. Put me down as a no vote for that Newsweek cover.

412 darthstar  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:31:22am

re: #410 bratwurst

Good grief...now the two increasingly irrelevant major domestic news weeklies are locked in a "shocking" cover duel. Meanwhile, anyone who actually cares about NEWS has long since moved their money and eyeballs over to The Economist.

The economist has a picture of Mitt Romney blowing a safe.

413 AK-47%  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:31:43am

re: #410 bratwurst

Good grief...now the two increasingly irrelevant major domestic news weeklies are locked in a "shocking" cover duel. Meanwhile, anyone who actually cares about NEWS has long since moved their money and eyeballs over to The Economist.

These two weeklies are now just businesses interested in selling advertising. The news component is now merely filler.

414 Varek Raith  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:32:58am

Andrew Sullivan.
Lol.

415 Kronocide  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:35:32am

re: #409 darthstar

They should have used the picture of Obama riding a unicorn and firing rainbow lazers from his fingers.

Gay-zors!

416 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:36:18am

Gadzooks I hate that cover. Bleh. Dumb.

417 bratwurst  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:36:23am

re: #413 Expand Your Ground

These two weeklies are now just businesses interested in selling advertising. The news component is now merely filler.

I was a regular reader of Newsweek for about 30 years. Two Kate Middleton covers and an Olsen twins cover in the space of a few months last year meant it was time for me to move on.

418 Lidane  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:37:06am

re: #410 bratwurst

Meanwhile, anyone who actually cares about NEWS has long since moved their money and eyeballs over to The Economist.

The Economist or anything and everything outside of US borders.

American media gives us the dumbed down version of things, from Time to Newsweek and everything else in between. Give me the BBC and anything outside the US for real news any day.

419 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:38:06am

re: #360 darthstar

I always wanted a velvet Elvis painting...I'd put it at the end of the hall, under a black light.


paint your own!

(wildfire is the good stuff)

420 Lidane  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:38:23am

re: #416 Gus

Hey-- got your message. I took care of it. Thanks for the heads up!

422 Gus  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:39:03am

re: #420 Lidane

Hey-- got your message. I took care of it. Thanks for the heads up!

YW ;)

423 Kronocide  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:42:08am
We've got 6,000 years of tradition.

Rand Paul

424 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:42:33am

It's okay Rand, if a penis comes looking for you and tries to make your butt gay, you can always go Galt

425 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:45:22am

re: #390 Expand Your Ground

"Humanism is an approach in study, philosophy, world view, or practice that focuses on human values and concerns, attaching prime importance to human rather than divine or supernatural matters."

You mean things like "The Sabbath was made for man, man was not made for the Sabbath"?

We all can cherrypick.

426 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:46:18am

re: #390 Expand Your Ground

"Humanism is an approach in study, philosophy, world view, or practice that focuses on human values and concerns, attaching prime importance to human rather than divine or supernatural matters."

You mean things like "The Sabbath was made for man, man was not made for the Sabbath"?

fuck yes

Youtube Video
427 AK-47%  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:47:21am

re: #425 May Day! May Day!

We all can cherrypick.

Christ was a humanist: he saw people as the measure of all things. Just not a secular humanist, he saw people in their relationship to God as the measure of all things.

But he was humanist in that he rejected the doctrinaire view that one just had to obey a set of rules in order to please God.

428 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:47:28am

re: #150 RayFerd

Cool. So if I open up a shop in AZ I can ask if the gal uses contraceptives. If she answers no I can assume she is a religious fundy (since using contraceptives infers sluttyness, cuts both ways), and can refrain from hiring her based on that fact. One way to keep my workers inhouse and not out on maternity leave every year.

And believe you me, it's gonna be used like that a lot more than it will to dismiss slutty women who are taking the pill.

429 Sheila Broflovski  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:48:16am

re: #409 darthstar

They should have used the picture of Obama riding a unicorn and firing rainbow lazers from his fingers.

Or the picture of Obama spraying roses out of his crotch.

430 AK-47%  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:48:17am

re: #428 SanFranciscoZionist

And believe you me, it's gonna be used like that a lot more than it will to dismiss slutty women who are taking the pill.

I am waiting for the first case like that to come up...and be contested in court.

431 Lidane  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:50:00am

Compassionate conservatism, y'all!

Wall Street Journal Editor Shrugs At Romney’s Anti-Gay High School Bullying: ‘So What?’

432 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:50:06am

re: #180 Dark_Falcon

Honestly, TP, it doesn't turn the Castle Doctrine on its head. The argument against one having a "duty to retreat" inside one's own home doesn't extend to re-entering a place when you know (or should know) that doing so carries a high risk of violent confrontation. Basically all self-defense law contains the idea that once you have left the danger zone you are obligated to stay out of it. If go back into it, then most judges will not allow you to claim self-defense.

So you're not obligated to retreat, but ONCE you retreat...this makes no sense. Wasn't there a guy in Florida who claimed SYG after crossing town to provoke a confrontation with his victim?

Also, my understanding was that she didn't actually leave the home.

433 Ming  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:50:27am

re: #392 darthstar

I was seven years old at the time, and I still remember it. And Mitt Romney can't remember torturing some guy?

Wasn't Romney 17 at the time? If Romney can't remember such an important incident, you have to wonder about early-onset senility. It's a reasonable assumption that he remembers, and remembers it well.

Romney said something like "I played a lot of pranks when I was a kid." His use of the words "a lot" implies that he remembers, well, "a lot" of incidents in this category.

I wonder how many people are incarcerated right now because they were tried as adults for something they did when they were 17. Holding a sharp object like a scissors or a knife inches away from the eyes, face, neck, scalp etc. of a terrified kid, when you're 17? Wow. Good thing the kid didn't make some panicked movement; he might easily have been cut.

Now this bully wants to be the most powerful person in the world, with his finger on the nuclear button.

434 darthstar  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:51:19am

re: #433 Ming

He led a blind teacher into a closed door. Where would he lead the country?

435 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:51:45am

re: #195 ggt

No shit, how effective are you going to be in your job if you can't speak your client's language? You wantz their money???

duh

Both my maternal grandparents learned Spanish for work. (This later got my mother out of jury duty, but that's another story.)

436 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:52:51am

re: #404 Gus

Well, Clinton was the first BLACK president, so Obama's got to have something.

437 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:53:55am

re: #434 darthstar

He led a blind teacher into a closed door. Where would he lead the country?

There's something about that in the Bible, I recall...

438 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:54:19am

re: #434 darthstar

He led a blind teacher into a closed door. Where would he lead the country?

If Leviticus 18:22 is so critical, Mittens, then what about Leviticus 19:14?

439 jaunte  Sun, May 13, 2012 10:54:35am

re: #434 darthstar

He led a blind teacher into a closed door. Where would he lead the country?

If some investment bankers have made a bet that the country would actually walk into the door, watch out.

440 Kronocide  Sun, May 13, 2012 11:01:02am

re: #433 Ming

Now this bully wants to be the most powerful person in the world, with his finger on the nuclear button.

With some people this seems to be a virtue.

441 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, May 13, 2012 11:21:55am

re: #427 Expand Your Ground

The foregoing is about the Biblical Jesus (we can't really judge the historical Jesus given how we can't separate his teachings from those added later or distorted).

Christ was a humanist: he saw people as the measure of all things.

That's quite a claim. Care to substantiate it?

Just not a secular humanist, he saw people in their relationship to God as the measure of all things.

That's not the same as the claim above. How is that any kind of humanism? Humanism need not be secular or atheistic, but it's never about God, his wishes, needs or relationship with humans. You're stretching the definition.

But he was humanist in that he rejected the doctrinaire view that onwe just had to obey a set of rules in order to please God.

Even if it were true, how is that humanism?

Sorry gotta run now.

442 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Sun, May 13, 2012 11:43:16am

re: #403 Kronocide

I don't remember my past, but in case I offended anyone, I apologize.
Incase Apology.

That means you're also doomed to repeat it.

443 Eventual Carrion  Sun, May 13, 2012 3:02:16pm

re: #339 William Barnett-Lewis

We were selling a lot to France & Great Britain by then and even as the English went broke came the master stroke of Lend-Lease. WWII would have taken much longer and cost even more lives had we not been 3/4 of the way to a war industrial footing on Dec 7.

Lest we forget, we had bankers and manufacturers that were selling to/supporting Germany also.

444 Eventual Carrion  Sun, May 13, 2012 3:13:53pm

re: #412 darthstar

The economist has a picture of Mitt Romney blowing a safe.

"I didn't even know they were dating!"
[in my best Groucho Marx voice]

445 SidewaysQuark  Sun, May 13, 2012 3:38:11pm

re: #424 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]

It's okay Rand, if a penis comes looking for you and tries to make your butt gay, you can always go Galt

We should let all the Ayn Rand fans have a parcel of land in which to "go Galt" just for the entertainment of watching them seek a bailout within the first 5 years.


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