Week in Review: A Right Wing Fail-a-Ganza

When wingnuts get frisky, all manner of fail abides
Wingnuts • Views: 38,879

It’s been an awesome week of right wing failitude; the Ricketts/Rev. Wright Debacle, followed by the Breitbart Birther Bogosity, followed by National Review’s Massive Elizabeth Warren Plagiarism Fail-a-Ganza: The National Review’s Fake Plagiarism Scoop.

The National Review says Elizabeth Warren is guilty of the gravest crime a writer can commit: Plagiarism. Katrina Trinko compares passages from “All Your Worth: The Ultimate Money Lifetime Plan,” Warren’s book with her daughter, Amelia Warren Tyagi, with passages from “Getting on the Money Track,” a book by Rob Black. The passages line up perfectly. The wording and even the punctuation are identical. It’s plagiarism all right. Except it looks very much like Warren is actually the victim.

The National Review headline says “Plagiarism in Elizabeth Warren’s 2006 book.” The body refers to Warren publishing the book “in 2006″ and Black’s book coming out in 2005. That’s true! Except that in 2006 the paperback of Warren’s book was published. The hardcover came out in March of 2005. Black’s book seems to have come out, if Amazon is correct, October 14 2005. (Or, according to Barnes and Noble, July 2005?) Months after Warren’s book. Unless there was an earlier published hardcover version that I can’t find on Amazon, it seems like Black most likely plagiarized Warren.

Then, to put the dim-witted icing on this many-layered cake of fail, breitbart.com jumped on the “Elizabeth Warren Plagiarism Bombshell” story after it had already been debunked! Evidence of Plagiarism in 2006 Elizabeth Warren Book.

Gotta hand it to the loveable little wingnuts — they’re dedicated, if nothing else! A bit over-eager, sure, but I don’t want to criticize them too much lest they stop providing such great inadvertent comedy.

Go ahead on, brave wingnuts. Forward, into the past.

Also see
UPDATE at 5/18/12 6:55:25 pm

The Breitbart gang have now deleted their post calling for Elizabeth Warren to be fired, but here it is in Google’s cache for a limited time: Evidence of Plagiarism in 2006 Elizabeth Warren Book.

And here’s the full text, with the original formatting:

Earlier today, Breitbart News published evidence suggesting that several of Elizabeth Warren’s contributions to a Cherokee-themed cook book were plagiarized. Late this afternoon, more evidence of plagiarism appeared in National Review’s The Corner. The following excerpt comes from Warren’s 2006 book All Your Worth:

For millions and millions of Americans, debt has become a way of life. Owing a bunch of money has become normal in this country, right up there with playing baseball in the summer and eating turkey on Thanksgiving. In fact, more than 80 million Americans now owe money on a credit card. And not just a little bit of money: The average family that carries a balance now owes more than two months’ income on their credit cards.

Maybe your grandpa has told you that “back in his day” if you couldn’t pay cash, you didn’t buy it. And that was pretty much true: Debt just wasn’t a routine part of American life the way it is today. A generation or two ago, almost no one carried any debt except for a home mortgage and maybe a car loan. There were no giant credit card balances, no payday loans, and no home equity loans. In fact, just 35 years ago, the total amount of debt outstanding among all American households was about 1/600th of what it is today. That means that for every dollar your generation owes today, your parents’ generation owed less than half a penny!

The portions in bold are identical to another book published in 2005. Here are the same paragraphs as they appear in Rob Black’s Getting on the Money Track:

For millions of Americans, debt has become a way of life. Owing thousands of dollars in high-interest debt has become the norm in this country.  This is astonishing and shows we are a nation of spenders and not savers. In fact, more than 80 million Americans now owe money on a credit card. And not just a little bit of money:  The average family carrying a balance now owes more than two months of income on their credit cards. Because bankruptcy laws in the United States were recently changed, getting away from credit card debt is going to be even tougher than in the past.

You might have heard this from your grandparents: “Back in the day, if we couldn’t pay cash, we didn’t buy it.”  This was pretty much the truth:  Debt just wasn’t a routine part of American the way it is today; it was viewed quite differently. A generation or two ago, almost no one carried any debt except for a home mortgage and maybe a car loan. There were no giant credit card balances, no payday loans (watch out for these as they  end to charge 10 percent or more for the right to your own money), and no home equity loans. In fact, just 35 years ago, the total amount of debt outstanding among all American households was about 1/600th of what it is today. That means that for every dollar your generation owes today, your grandparents’ generation owed less than half a penny!

Warren’s excerpts were obviously cut and pasted. This sort of thing would usually be considered a firing offense for anyone who writes for a living; however, Warren’s book was co-written with her daughter. It’s possible the daughter is responsible for this. I suppose Warren will have little choice but to throw her under the bus if she wants to stay in the Senate race (and keep her job).

Rob Black has a business conducting financial seminars. I contacted Mr. Black via Twitter but haven’t heard back from him so far.

A screenshot:

Jump to bottom

670 comments
1 darthstar  Fri, May 18, 2012 6:41:31pm

Don't forget the rise in birtherism...

2 jaunte  Fri, May 18, 2012 6:43:57pm

Rob Black must have suddenly gone on a long, long camping trip somewhere in the trackless wilderness.

3 darthstar  Fri, May 18, 2012 6:48:06pm
4 wheat-dogg  Fri, May 18, 2012 6:51:33pm

Easy explanation;

Warren used the same time machine that enabled Obama to plant those birth announcements in the Hono papers in 1961.

//

5 ReamWorks SKG  Fri, May 18, 2012 6:53:12pm

I'm surprised the Birthers are back! They seemed to have faded away at first when the "long form" birth certificate was released.

6 Gus  Fri, May 18, 2012 6:55:01pm

On the road to peak wingnut. When shall we ever get there.

7 jaunte  Fri, May 18, 2012 6:57:37pm

Rev. Wright must have done something uniquely bad for him to be used as a weapon against the Obama campaign. Maybe he manipulated the purchase of companies to enrich himself from management fees and taking money out of the company when new management imposed an untenable burden of debt. Or maybe he destroyed a national budget surplus and turned it into a deficit by pretending waging war was 'off the books.'

8 Charles Johnson  Fri, May 18, 2012 6:59:07pm

Check the update above.

9 Charles Johnson  Fri, May 18, 2012 6:59:36pm

re: #3 darthstar

That's harsh.

10 Decatur Deb  Fri, May 18, 2012 7:00:10pm

re: #5 ReamWorks SKG

I'm surprised the Birthers are back! They seemed to have faded away at first when the "long form" birth certificate was released.

They're more than back. The Arizona SoS has hinted he might have to keep the President off the ballot.

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

11 darthstar  Fri, May 18, 2012 7:01:03pm

I'm only here to help.

12 bratwurst  Fri, May 18, 2012 7:01:55pm

re: #11 darthstar

I'm only here to help.

[Embedded content]

What, no coffee mugs?!?!

13 ProGunLiberal  Fri, May 18, 2012 7:02:42pm

re: #11 darthstar

And this is what Capitalism should be!

14 bratwurst  Fri, May 18, 2012 7:05:40pm
15 ReamWorks SKG  Fri, May 18, 2012 7:05:47pm

On a completely unrelated note, I will be down in LA next week because I have a part in the film "A Helping Hand", which will star Sandra Oh. Details about the film are here:

[Link: www.sandraohnews.com...]

It's a short, due out in 2013

16 darthstar  Fri, May 18, 2012 7:07:04pm

re: #12 bratwurst

done

17 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Fri, May 18, 2012 7:08:48pm

re: #6 Gus

On the road to peak wingnut. When shall we ever get there.

Nov 1st 2012

18 darthstar  Fri, May 18, 2012 7:09:19pm

re: #13 ProGunLiberal

And this is what Capitalism should be!

I'm trying to be quick with these things, but my art skills suck. Two minutes with MS Paint and if it looks good on preview I go with it.

I pulled in about 400 bucks in 2008 with two designs..."I'm voting for THAT one" (published during the debate after McCain said it) and MC=W3 - which was a popular bumper sticker.

19 Lidane  Fri, May 18, 2012 7:09:30pm

re: #10 Decatur Deb

They're more than back. The Arizona SoS has hinted he might have to keep the President off the ballot.

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

I'm waiting for him to try to keep the sitting POTUS off the ballot. Has that even ever happened before?

Also, why in the hell would anyone do this in a supposed red state that Barack Obama can't win? Wouldn't it make more sense to try that shit in a state like California or New York to try and hand them to Romney on plate?

20 Lidane  Fri, May 18, 2012 7:10:13pm

re: #6 Gus

On the road to peak wingnut. When shall we ever get there.

The day after Obama gets re-elected, assuming he wins a second term.

21 Gus  Fri, May 18, 2012 7:12:03pm

re: #20 Lidane

The day after Obama gets re-elected, assuming he wins a second term.

If he wins then maybe sometime around November 1, 2016.

22 darthstar  Fri, May 18, 2012 7:12:43pm
23 Gus  Fri, May 18, 2012 7:13:11pm

re: #22 darthstar

[Embedded content]

Why do you hate the rich?

//

24 darthstar  Fri, May 18, 2012 7:14:10pm

re: #23 Gus

Why do you hate the rich?

//

I hope to be able to hate myself some day.

25 Gus  Fri, May 18, 2012 7:14:40pm

re: #24 darthstar

I hope to be able to hate myself some day.

In that case I pre-hate you!

//

26 b_sharp  Fri, May 18, 2012 7:14:45pm

Did Brietbart say anything about the plagiarism in the Wegman Report, which is a far more important paper than the book they got excited about.

27 jaunte  Fri, May 18, 2012 7:14:48pm

re: #23 Gus

"No Winklevoss ever gave me a job."

28 darthstar  Fri, May 18, 2012 7:15:20pm

re: #26 Ghost of Insanity

Did Brietbart say anything about the plagiarism in the Wegman Report, which is a far more important paper than the book they got excited about.

He's been pretty quiet lately.

29 Decatur Deb  Fri, May 18, 2012 7:15:43pm

re: #19 Lidane

I'...snip
Also, why in the hell would anyone do this in a supposed red state that Barack Obama can't win? Wouldn't it make more sense to try that shit in a state like California or New York to try and hand them to Romney on plate?

A) Just following Sheriff Joe's lead.

B) Because they're nuts.

30 Gus  Fri, May 18, 2012 7:16:11pm

My butthurt sensors are going off in two places. Not here.

31 b_sharp  Fri, May 18, 2012 7:17:33pm

re: #28 darthstar

He's been pretty quiet lately.

Death does that to you.

Since the plagiarism was discovered in 2010 he might have said something if he had had any integrity.

32 darthstar  Fri, May 18, 2012 7:20:23pm

re: #31 Ghost of Insanity

Death does that to you.

Since the plagiarism was discovered in 2010 he might have said something if he had had any integrity.

Let the dead rot in peace, I say.

33 austin_blue  Fri, May 18, 2012 7:22:38pm

re: #9 Charles Johnson

That's harsh.

But true.

It's starter wine.

34 darthstar  Fri, May 18, 2012 7:23:31pm
35 jaunte  Fri, May 18, 2012 7:24:27pm

Battleship
Universal Pictures
131 minutes

Before we get into things like story and character, let me be clear about something: This movie is loud. Punishingly loud. Like, the-Greek-god-Poseidon-passing-a-kidney-stone levels of loud. The bulk of the movie is just things going boom through computer-generated images of seismic proportions. The set pieces are orchestrated with a visceral pulse, shameless flash, and surprising balletic timing that cudgel you into smiling like an idiot.

Downton Abbey, this is not.

36 bratwurst  Fri, May 18, 2012 7:31:05pm

re: #30 Gus

My butthurt sensors are going off in two places. Not here.

If you butt is hurting in two different places, this is probably a good time to seek medical attention!

37 austin_blue  Fri, May 18, 2012 7:32:14pm

The Right Wing media got it wrong?!?!?!?! Unpossible!

38 austin_blue  Fri, May 18, 2012 7:33:09pm

re: #36 bratwurst

If you butt is hurting in two different places, this is probably a good time to seek medical attention!

Looking forward to The Big Game tomorrow?

39 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, May 18, 2012 7:34:07pm

re: #30 Gus

My butthurt sensors are going off in two places. Not here.

Entrance and Exit wounds from the Derp Strike.

40 Gus  Fri, May 18, 2012 7:34:38pm

re: #39 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Entrance and Exit wounds from the Derp Strike.

You win!

41 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, May 18, 2012 7:36:02pm

Elizabeth Warren for president in 2016


the pigs keep slinging everything they got at her, they're terrified of her

42 bratwurst  Fri, May 18, 2012 7:37:40pm

re: #38 austin_blue

Looking forward to The Big Game tomorrow?

You betcha...I have to rootl for Bayern. Aside from pulling for the Bundesliga generally, my second favorite club is Spurs and they get FOOKED out of a chance to qualify for next year's Champions League if Chelsea wins.

43 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, May 18, 2012 7:37:57pm

re: #6 Gus

On the road to peak wingnut. When shall we ever get there.

last peak wingnut

44 Interesting Times  Fri, May 18, 2012 7:39:42pm

re: #41 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]

Elizabeth Warren for president in 2016

the pigs keep slinging everything they got at her, they're terrified of her

45 Artist  Fri, May 18, 2012 7:44:11pm

OT: Holy crap. Two houses across from the back of mine are on fire. Totally engulfed.

46 austin_blue  Fri, May 18, 2012 7:45:25pm

re: #42 bratwurst

You betcha...I have to rootl for Bayern. Aside from pulling for the Bundesliga generally, my second favorite club is Spurs and they get FOOKED out of a chance to qualify for next year's Champions League if Chelsea wins.

True, but for some ungodly reason I have a deep and abiding hatred of Frank Ribery. And I've loved Chelsea since I was little. So I will be pulling for the Blue. Interesting in who is *not* playing. Bayern has three replacements at the back and Chelsea has four out, including that despicable moron John Terry. Drogba, as usual, will determine who wins. Freakishly clever, fast, and aggressive. And not as much of a supporting cast as Arjen and Frankie the Frog have.

Here's just hoping it's a good match.

47 austin_blue  Fri, May 18, 2012 7:46:24pm

re: #45 Artist

OT: Holy crap. Two houses across from the back of mine are on fire. Totally engulfed.

Are you in Syria?

48 bratwurst  Fri, May 18, 2012 7:51:40pm

re: #46 austin_blue

True, but for some ungodly reason I have a deep and abiding hatred of Frank Ribery. And I've loved Chelsea since I was little. So I will be pulling for the Blue. Interesting in who is *not* playing. Bayern has three replacements at the back and Chelsea has four out, including that despicable moron John Terry. Drogba, as usual, will determine who wins. Freakishly clever, fast, and aggressive. And not as much of a supporting cast as Arjen and Frankie the Frog have.

Here's just hoping it's a good match.

I hear ya...listen, I am hardly a fan of Bayern in general and Ribery in particular! I read one column today suggesting that the number of defenders who won't be playing should make for a wide open match. I sure hope so...would be a pity of the one and only big time club match that the vast majority of Americans have access to each year turns out to be a snoozer.

49 b_sharp  Fri, May 18, 2012 7:52:31pm

re: #45 Artist

OT: Holy crap. Two houses across from the back of mine are on fire. Totally engulfed.

Shouldn't you be heading to higher ground?

Or is that just for tsunamis?

50 darthstar  Fri, May 18, 2012 7:53:27pm

re: #49 Ghost of Insanity

Shouldn't you be heading to higher ground?

Or is that just for tsunamis?

Higher ground isn't the best place in a fire...just saying.

51 jamesfirecat  Fri, May 18, 2012 7:54:35pm

I blame the recent outpouring of rightwing derp on the fact that they knew there would be nobody to call them on it... after all Stewart and Colbert are on break this week...

52 Interesting Times  Fri, May 18, 2012 7:59:17pm

re: #50 darthstar

Higher ground isn't the best place in a fire...just saying.

The best place to be during a fire is as far away from it as you can possibly get.

53 jaunte  Fri, May 18, 2012 8:01:13pm

Charles M. Blow NYT Op-Ed:

‘Metrosexual Black Abe Lincoln’

There was one description of the president that truly seized me:

...“The metrosexual black Abe Lincoln has emerged as a hyper-partisan, hyper-liberal, elitist politician with more than a bit of the trimmer in him.”

This sentence is just so deliciously ridiculous, insulting and incendiary — perfect Republican fodder.

Let’s dissect it, shall we? Scalpel!

First, there is the word metrosexual. It is usually defined as a man keenly interested in grooming and preening. Despite the sexual root, the term isn’t rooted in sexuality. In its truest sense, President Obama of mom jeans infamy — as he told the “Today Show” in 2009, “I’m a little frumpy” — is far less metrosexual than Mitt Romney of the perfect hair, copper tan and Gap skinny jeans.

54 jaunte  Fri, May 18, 2012 8:09:56pm
55 Artist  Fri, May 18, 2012 8:14:22pm

Fires are getting under control now, thankfully.
Kudos to the fire fighters.
I hope nobody was hurt.

56 b_sharp  Fri, May 18, 2012 8:20:22pm

re: #55 Artist

Fires are getting under control now, thankfully.
Kudos to the fire fighters.
I hope nobody was hurt.

That's good to hear.

57 dragonath  Fri, May 18, 2012 8:21:59pm

Everybody knows metrosexuals are really communists in disguise. Like, have you seen Lenin? That hipster's ushanka. That sexy, sexy goatee. I bet he was secretly black too.

58 austin_blue  Fri, May 18, 2012 8:23:43pm

re: #57 Be Zorch, Daddio

Everybody knows metrosexuals are really communists in disguise. Like, have you seen Lenin? That hipster's ushanka. That sexy, sexy goatee. I bet he was secretly black too.

And Kenyan. And a secret Muslim.

It all begins to make sense...

59 Lidane  Fri, May 18, 2012 8:28:05pm

re: #53 jaunte

Charles M. Blow NYT Op-Ed:

‘Metrosexual Black Abe Lincoln’

And here I thought Barack Obama was the black Jimmy Carter. Isn't that what the wingnuts have been saying all these years?

60 Decatur Deb  Fri, May 18, 2012 8:29:30pm

re: #59 Lidane

And here I thought Barack Obama was the black Jimmy Carter. Isn't that what the wingnuts have been saying all these years?

No, he's the gay Bill Clinton.

61 jaunte  Fri, May 18, 2012 8:31:16pm

re: #57 Be Zorch, Daddio

Everybody knows metrosexuals are really communists in disguise. Like, have you seen Lenin? That hipster's ushanka. That sexy, sexy goatee. I bet he was secretly black too.

I had to look it up:
Image: 2.1287182992.my-ushanka-russian-hat.jpg

62 Charles Johnson  Fri, May 18, 2012 8:31:24pm

Michelle Malkin's Twitchy.com declares victory: Dana Loesch Verbally Smacks Tommy Christopher for Conspiratorial, Condescending Article | Twitchy

Earlier this morning, Breitbart foe and wearer of crazypants Charles Johnson published a piece on his blog suggesting that Breitbart.com employees have been in collusion with the Romney campaign.

Readers on this site are already aware of the leaked document that showed a super-rich right-winger planning a $10 million “scary black President” smear campaign. Of course, once the plan and the billionaire backer were exposed to the sunlight, they quickly pivoted to say that they never really planned on running the ads.

Romney, after initially hemming and hawing and saying he hadn’t “read the papers yet,” eventually got around to “condemning” the attack strategy, saying, “So in regards to that PAC, I repudiate what they’re thinking about.”

But some in the right-wing blogosphere think that Romney actually is offering “wink wink nudge nudge” support for the smear campaigns, and is simply employing the strategy of “good cop, bad cop” alongside his surrogates.

Johnson cited tweets by Loesch in which she analyzed Romney’s campaign in order to “prove” his point that Romney and Breitbart.com are in cahoots. He even went so far as to suggest that Breitbart.com employees were present at a top-secret meeting with Romney’s campaign.

Now, any journalist worth his or her salt should know better than to take Johnson seriously.

63 Decatur Deb  Fri, May 18, 2012 8:33:02pm

re: #62 Charles Johnson

They just don't know how to quit you.

64 jaunte  Fri, May 18, 2012 8:33:20pm

re: #62 Charles Johnson

One, I don't think anyone who decided Twitchy was a good brand name is in a position to call someone else "crazypants."

65 Gus  Fri, May 18, 2012 8:35:59pm

re: #62 Charles Johnson

Michelle Malkin's Twitchy.com declares victory: Dana Loesch Verbally Smacks Tommy Christopher for Conspiratorial, Condescending Article | Twitchy

You know what's funny of course. You didn't write that article/page. ;)

66 Charles Johnson  Fri, May 18, 2012 8:40:05pm

re: #65 Gus

You know what's funny of course. You didn't write that article/page. ;)

Shhh, don't tell them yet. They're still making fools of themselves.

67 jaunte  Fri, May 18, 2012 8:44:07pm

Background, because I was confused:

The meeting, which included writers from RedState and Breitbart.com as well as a list of conservative publications reported by Huffington Post — National Review, Daily Caller, American Spectator, Washington Examiner, Powerline, Townhall,, RiehlWorldView, White House Dossier, and PJ Media (though not, as an early report had suggested, the conspiracist site WorldNetDaily). RNC chairman Reince Preibus also attended.

Notably, the meeting also included some grassroots bloggers with no real institutional ties to the Washington Republican Establishment, including the Twitter virtuoso Ace of Spades and John Hawkins of Right Wing News.
[Link: www.buzzfeed.com...]

Tommy Christopher:

Dana Loesch is under the impression that this post was meant to imply that she was at the meeting herself, despite clear language to the contrary. To be clear, any references to Loesch gaining information from this meeting is in reference to her colleagues who were there. Dana Loesch was, in fact, not at that meeting, and I never suggested she was.
[Link: www.mediaite.com...]

68 jaunte  Fri, May 18, 2012 8:46:15pm
69 Gus  Fri, May 18, 2012 8:47:56pm

re: #66 Charles Johnson

Shhh, don't tell them yet. They're still making fools of themselves.

Loesch's Tweets were still over the place. Not only that almost everything she and the rest of the right-wing thugs tried this week ended in utmost failure other than feed the usual diet of red meat to their readership. They also managed to acquire a rather substantial news following of birthers to Breitbart/Big.

Now I imagine since it's on Twitchy you have about 1,000 crazed wingnut chimpanzees haranguing you on Twitter.

70 Gus  Fri, May 18, 2012 8:51:54pm

re: #66 Charles Johnson

Shhh, don't tell them yet. They're still making fools of themselves.

BTW. They still have that fake Warren story up.

Fauxcahontas Elizabeth Warren strikes again: ‘Pow Wow Chow’ recipes were plagiarized
Posted at 4:11 pm on May 18, 2012 by Twitchy Staff

71 Dark_Falcon  Fri, May 18, 2012 8:53:45pm

re: #66 Charles Johnson

Shhh, don't tell them yet. They're still making fools of themselves.

Charles, Katrina Trinko has retracted her post:

UPDATE: I took down my earlier post on Elizabeth Warren plagiarizing from the book Getting On the Money Track. On Amazon.com, the Warren book All Your Worth is listed as having been published January 9, 2006. As it turns out, that is the paperback publication date; the hardback book was published in March 2005. As such, it appears that Getting on the Money Track (published in October 2005) plagiarized from All Your Worth, not the other way around.

I apologize for the error.

I respectfully ask you to update the LGF post to reflect her retraction.

72 Gus  Fri, May 18, 2012 8:56:26pm

re: #71 Dark_Falcon

Charles, Katrina Trinko has retracted her post:

I respectfully ask you to update the LGF post to reflect her retraction.

Um. Dude. Did you read the post?

ALSO SEE:
Correction on Warren - by Katrina Trinko - the Corner - National Review Online

73 jaunte  Fri, May 18, 2012 8:56:47pm

Cough.
Peabody Coal pays U.S. taxpayers $1.11 per ton of coal, sells it to China for $123

The price of a ton of Powder River Basin coal on U.S. spot markets? $9.15 per ton, as of May 11.

74 freetoken  Fri, May 18, 2012 8:57:54pm

re: #73 jaunte

CAPITALISM!!

75 Interesting Times  Fri, May 18, 2012 8:59:44pm

re: #70 Gus

BTW. They still have that fake Warren story up.

Fauxcahontas Elizabeth Warren strikes again: ‘Pow Wow Chow’ recipes were plagiarized
Posted at 4:11 pm on May 18, 2012 by Twitchy Staff

Anyone else find the slur "fauxcahontas" bigoted and offensive as hell? Would you refer to someone who claimed distant black ancestry as "Aunt Je-lie-ma?" Why are Native Americans considered an acceptable target for this racist crap?

76 Dark_Falcon  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:00:53pm

re: #72 Gus

Um. Dude. Did you read the post?

It's far too small, so small that I did even see it till now. It needs to be made clearer that neither the author nor NR is continuing to push the erroneous story. NR and Trinko get a serious fault for poor fact-checking, but they did correct themselves once informed they were in error.

77 Decatur Deb  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:01:56pm

re: #75 Interesting Times

Anyone else find the slur "fauxcahontas" bigoted and offensive as hell? Would you refer to someone who claimed distant black ancestry as "Aunt Je-lie-ma?" Why are Native Americans considered an acceptable target for this racist crap?

"Bigoted and offensive" is sort of their stock-in-trade. It's in all/most of the nutjob sites now.

78 Mich-again  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:02:12pm

re: #62 Charles Johnson

Now, any journalist worth his or her salt should know better than to take Johnson seriously.

Charles, I posted this link here a few years ago but its worth repeating now.

An essay written in 1915. It explains why you have become the focal point of the wingnut attack.

The Penalty of Leadership

“In every field of human endeavor, he that is first must perpetually live in the white glare of publicity. Whether the leadership be vested in a man or in a manufactured product, emulation and envy are ever at work. In art, in music, in industry, the reward and punishment are always the same. The reward is widespread recognition; the punishment, fierce denial and detraction. When a man’s work becomes a standard for the whole world, it also becomes a target for the shafts of the envious few. If his work is mediocre, he will be left severely alone—if he achieves a masterpiece, it will set a million tongue a-wagging. Jealousy does not protrude its forked tongue at the artist who produces a commonplace painting. Whatsoever you write, or paint, or play, or sing, or build, no one will strive to surpass or to slander you unless your work be stamped with the seal of genius. Long, long after a great work or a good work has been done, those who are disappointed or envious, continue to cry out that it cannot be done. Spiteful little voices in the domain of art were raised against our own Whistler as a mountebank, long after the big would have acclaimed him its greatest artistic genius. Multitudes flocked to Bayreuth to worship at the musical shrine of Wagner, while the little group of those whom he dethroned and displaced argued angrily that he was no musician at all. The little world continued to protest that Fulton could never build a steamboat, while the big world flocked to the river banks to see his boat steam by. The leader is assailed because he is the leader, and the effort to equal him is merely added proof of that leadership. Failing to equal or excel, the follower seeks to depreciate and to destroy—but only confirms once more the superiority of that which he strives to supplant. There is nothing new in this. It is as old as the world and as old as human passions—envy, fear, greed, ambition, and the desire to surpass. And it all avails nothing. If the leader truly leads, he remains—the leader. Master-poet, master-painter, master-workman, each in his turn is assailed, and each holds his laurels through the ages. That which is good or great makes itself known, no matter how loud the clamor of denial. That which deserves to live—lives.”

Copyright Cadillac Motor Company

Rock on Charles.

79 Gus  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:02:27pm

re: #76 Dark_Falcon

It's far too small, so small that I did even see it till now. It needs to be made clearer that neither the author nor NR is continuing to push the erroneous story. NR and Trinko get a serious fault for poor fact-checking, but they did correct themselves once informed they were in error.

Now that's pretty funny.

80 jaunte  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:04:22pm

re: #75 Interesting Times

I'm pretty sure Elizabeth Warren never claimed her great-great-grandmother was a member of the Mattaponi tribe.

81 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:05:01pm

re: #75 Interesting Times

Anyone else find the slur "fauxcahontas" bigoted and offensive as hell? Would you refer to someone who claimed distant black ancestry as "Aunt Je-lie-ma?" Why are Native Americans considered an acceptable target for this racist crap?

internets are safe harbor for right wing racists

82 Decatur Deb  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:05:20pm

Windup--Is your pseudo-nic a reference to Solanas' S.C.U.M. Manifesto?

83 bratwurst  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:05:23pm

I wonder if the correction from the National Review will be larger than the original story itself!

84 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:05:34pm

re: #80 jaunte

I'm pretty sure Elizabeth Warren never claimed her great-great-grandmother was a member of the Mattaponi tribe.

They keep trying to take her down, and they keep failing

85 Mich-again  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:07:06pm

Arguing with a wingnut is like trying to tear a cotton ball in half. Pull too hard, it digs in. Give it a slight tug, it comes right apart.

86 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:07:53pm

re: #82 Decatur Deb

Windup--Is your pseudo-nic a reference to Solanis' S.C.U.M. Manifesto?

Nah, it's a reference to a Skinny Puppy song:

87 Decatur Deb  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:08:57pm

re: #86 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]

Nah, it's a reference to a Skinny Puppy song:

[Embedded content]

You kids and your rocking roll music.

88 Dark_Falcon  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:09:01pm

re: #83 bratwurst

I wonder if the correction from the National Review will be larger than the original story itself!

Nope, sad to say. NR goofed up and admitted it did so, but the wingnut haters won't back off so easily. Unlike Katrina Trinko (who is a sane person who screwed up), they are in the middle of a rage-fest and won't interrupt it for the truth.

89 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:09:44pm

re: #82 Decatur Deb

Windup--Is your pseudo-nic a reference to Solanis' S.C.U.M. Manifesto?

live is more fun:

90 Mich-again  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:10:41pm

re: #77 Decatur Deb

"Bigoted and offensive" is sort of their stock-in-trade. It's in all/most of the nutjob sites now.

The mainstreaming of racism. What used to be unacceptable is OK now because they all do it.

91 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:11:03pm

re: #87 Decatur Deb

You kids and your rocking roll music.

they are clever nerds that make crazy noises with technology, I can relate ^_^

92 Mocking Jay  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:11:13pm

Christ, how do these people manage to tie their own shoelaces, much less run websites?

93 ProGunLiberal  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:11:54pm

re: #71 Dark_Falcon

Nope, too late. I want to keep this ammo in the Culture War. The only thing I got right now is the eventuality of a job, and that won't make me less lonely.

So I will let anger fill in the gap. That's how I have operated before at least, and it kept me somewhat sane.

94 freetoken  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:12:02pm

re: #76 Dark_Falcon

It's far too small, so small that I did even see it till now. It needs to be made clearer that neither the author nor NR is continuing to push the erroneous story. NR and Trinko get a serious fault for poor fact-checking, but they did correct themselves once informed they were in error.

Throwing yourself in front of the bus constantly to defend NR is a waste of your life. Really, NR has such a dodgy history that why would you care if it went down in the flames it so rightfully deserves?

If you feel the need to defend "conservatives", why not pick favorites from the (admittedly small) list of actually cautious and thoughtful conservatives?

95 Dark_Falcon  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:12:14pm

re: #75 Interesting Times

Anyone else find the slur "fauxcahontas" bigoted and offensive as hell? Would you refer to someone who claimed distant black ancestry as "Aunt Je-lie-ma?" Why are Native Americans considered an acceptable target for this racist crap?

She gets called that because of her claim to be part-Cherokee, a claim that proved problematic. It didn't sink her, but it did keep her on the defensive for several days, so it did hurt.

96 Interesting Times  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:13:56pm

re: #95 Dark_Falcon

She gets called that because of her claim to be part-Cherokee,

If someone claims to be part-black, is it acceptable to call them "Aunt Je-Lie-Ma"?

97 Mocking Jay  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:14:06pm

re: #95 Dark_Falcon

She gets called that because of her claim to be part-Cherokee, a claim that proved problematic. It didn't sink her, but it did keep her on the defensive for several days, so it did hurt.

She's just as Native American as the chief of the Cherokee tribe...

98 Dark_Falcon  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:14:06pm

re: #93 ProGunLiberal

Nope, too late. I want to keep this ammo in the Culture War. The only thing I got right now is the eventuality of a job, and that won't make me less lonely.

So I will let anger fill in the gap. That's how I have operated before at least, and it kept me somewhat sane.

What ammo? They retracted the story. The Nation has had to do that, too. It's a screw-up, but not something massive.

99 Varek Raith  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:14:13pm

re: #95 Dark_Falcon

She gets called that because of her claim to be part-Cherokee, a claim that proved problematic. It didn't sink her, but it did keep her on the defensive for several days, so it did hurt.

Too bad it turned out she was.

100 Charles Johnson  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:17:08pm

re: #95 Dark_Falcon

She gets called that because of her claim to be part-Cherokee, a claim that proved problematic. It didn't sink her, but it did keep her on the defensive for several days, so it did hurt.

Elizabeth Warren IS part Cherokee.

101 ProGunLiberal  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:17:23pm

re: #98 Dark_Falcon

And do the Republicans ever pay attention to apologies from my side when somebody fouls up? No. No they don't. They continue at act as if we never apologized.

So I think 2 should play at this game. Nothing is ever going to get better unless the Democrats get a spine and act more aggressively.

102 Dark_Falcon  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:17:46pm

re: #97 It's a cookbook!

She's just as Native American as the chief of the Cherokee tribe...

Back that claim up or don't make it.

103 ProGunLiberal  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:18:10pm

re: #100 Charles Johnson

I didn't know that.

Is she originally from Massachusetts? Because I recall that the Cherokee are from places that are not anywhere near Massachusetts.

104 jaunte  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:18:12pm

Elizabeth Warren is 1/32 native American. If she was 1/32 African, most Americans would say she was black.

105 Dark_Falcon  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:18:41pm

re: #100 Charles Johnson

Elizabeth Warren IS part Cherokee.

As am I. More than her, too, or so my mother found.

106 Mocking Jay  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:18:46pm

re: #102 Dark_Falcon

Back that claim up or don't make it.

Here.

You're so quick to disbelieve, please take the time to watch it.

107 Decatur Deb  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:19:12pm

re: #103 ProGunLiberal

I didn't know that.

Is she originally from Massachusetts? Because I recall that the Cherokee are from places that are not anywhere near Massachusetts.

She's from Oklahoma. Cherokees have been seen in the vicinity.

109 Dark_Falcon  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:19:57pm

re: #104 jaunte

Elizabeth Warren is 1/32 native American. If she was 1/32 African, most Americans would say she was black.

Unlikely. Most people who have that little African ancestry look white.

110 jaunte  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:20:35pm

re: #109 Dark_Falcon

That's not how genes are expressed, Dark.

111 Decatur Deb  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:20:52pm

re: #109 Dark_Falcon

Unlikely. Most people who have that little African ancestry look white.

Not to the One-Droppers.

112 ProGunLiberal  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:20:57pm

re: #107 Decatur Deb

Interesting. I somehow doubt she would be electable in OK.

At least she is somewhere that we can purge a Republican out of office.

re: #108 jaunte

Though that is more than a little far back in the genealogy.

113 Mocking Jay  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:23:58pm

Claim: backed up.

114 Dark_Falcon  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:24:36pm

re: #111 Decatur Deb

Not to the One-Droppers.

'Most Americans', which is the group Jaunte referenced, are not One Droppers. So my point can survive that counterpoint.

115 bratwurst  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:24:49pm

re: #94 freetoken

Throwing yourself in front of the bus constantly to defend NR is a waste of your life. Really, NR has such a dodgy history that why would you care if it went down in the flames it so rightfully deserves?

If you feel the need to defend "conservatives", why not pick favorites from the (admittedly small) list of actually cautious and thoughtful conservatives?

I was about to make this exact same post, thanks for making it yourself. The only thing I would add is that I would be embarrassed to defend a publication that features Jonah Goldberg and Mark Steyn.

116 freetoken  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:25:17pm

re: #111 Decatur Deb

Not to the One-Droppers.

Let's say that she has 5 liters of blood at any one time. That's 5000 ml. 1/32nd of that is about 156 ml. Say that there are 10 drops in a ml; that means she has over 1500 drops of blood from that 1/32nd ancestor.

Yup, passes on the one drop test.

117 Gus  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:25:53pm

Damn. Looks like all of the conservatives are using that racial slur. Even here by genocide promoter Mark Steyn at National Review:

Alas, the actual original marriage license does not list Great-Great-Great-Gran’ma as Cherokee, but let’s cut Elizabeth Fauxcahontas Crockagawea Warren some slack here. She couldn’t be black. She would if she could, but she couldn’t. But she could be 1/32nd Cherokee, and maybe get invited to a luncheon with others of her kind — “people who are like I am,” 31/32nds white, and they can all sit around celebrating their diversity together. She is a testament to America’s melting pot, composite pot, composting pot, whatever.

Whatever the hell he's talking about I don't know. They're always "dabbling" with race over at National Racists Online.

118 Decatur Deb  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:26:13pm

re: #114 Dark_Falcon

'Most Americans', which is the group Jaunte referenced, are not One Droppers. So my point can survive that counterpoint.

What group would use the term 'Fauxchahontas'?

119 ProGunLiberal  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:26:42pm

re: #117 Gus

Very good use of the acronym to get a more truthful summary of what they do, by the way.

120 Mocking Jay  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:27:09pm

re: #118 Decatur Deb

What group would use the term 'Fauxchahontas'?

Conservatives.


(Go ahead. Downding it. You know you want to.)

121 jaunte  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:27:32pm

re: #114 Dark_Falcon

This is the history:

Value based on skin tones led to some interesting historical developments both within and outside African American communities. To prevent blacks fathered by white masters from making claims on their masters, children born to enslaved women were legally designated to take the status of those women. Blond-haired, blue-eyed enslaved persons, therefore, could not change their condition through any legal process. To ensure that this pattern could not be broken, anyone determined to have had black blood in one of their ancestors five generations removed was still designated “Negro.” Mulattoes, quadroons, octoroons, sextaroons, and whatever word would define a person who had 1/32 black blood were all designated to be fully black by laws of American society. “The mighty drop” of black blood, as some scholars refer to it, was powerful enough to control generations of persons legally classified as black who might otherwise have been classed as white or who might have passed for white.
[Link: nationalhumanitiescenter.org...]

122 Gus  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:30:37pm

Take a look in this Google search. All of the conservative sites are using that racial slur, fauxcahontas, in their blogs and even more "notable" sites.

123 Interesting Times  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:31:51pm

re: #117 Gus

Damn. Looks like all of the conservatives are using that racial slur. Even here by genocide promoter Mark Steyn at National Review:

She is a testament to America’s melting pot, composite pot, composting pot, whatever.

Durr hurr, comparing immigration and diversity to an organic garbage heap is hilarious!

Fuck Mark Steyn with an oil-drilling rig. I am so disgusted that bigoted little bilge-blot is from the same country as me.

124 Dark_Falcon  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:31:58pm

re: #118 Decatur Deb

What group would use the term 'Fauxchahontas'?

I honestly don't see much wrong with the term, truth to tell. It seemed just an effective mocking device. Taking a famous person's name and using it to mock someone isn't a new concept.

125 Gus  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:32:27pm

re: #123 Interesting Times

Fuck Mark Steyn with an oil-drilling rig. I am so disgusted that bigoted little bilge-blot is from the same country as me.

Yeah. I saw that. What an asshole.

126 Interesting Times  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:32:48pm

re: #124 Dark_Falcon

I honestly don't see much wrong with the term, truth to tell. It seemed just an effective mocking device. Taking a famous person's name and using it to mock someone isn't a new concept.

If someone claims to be part-black, is it acceptable to call them "Aunt Je-Lie-Ma"?

127 bratwurst  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:33:27pm

re: #124 Dark_Falcon

I honestly don't see much wrong with the term, truth to tell. It seemed just an effective mocking device. Taking a famous person's name and using it to mock someone isn't a new concept.

Is it also "an effective mocking device" when Rush Limbaugh calls the President a "Halfrican American"?

128 goddamnedfrank  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:33:38pm

re: #102 Dark_Falcon

Back that claim up or don't make it.

Bill John Baker

129 Decatur Deb  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:34:16pm

re: #124 Dark_Falcon

I honestly don't see much wrong with the term, truth to tell. It seemed just an effective mocking device. Taking a famous person's name and using it to mock someone isn't a new concept.

Technically, I agree with you on that--it's an insult unfairly directed to woman accused of trying to 'pass' for Native American for an imagined career advantage. It's not especially racist, just shitty.

130 Gus  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:34:20pm

re: #124 Dark_Falcon

I honestly don't see much wrong with the term, truth to tell. It seemed just an effective mocking device. Taking a famous person's name and using it to mock someone isn't a new concept.

Really? So you think it's OK to call an American India "Pocahontas"? I mean that would first have to be OK before you could start calling people "Fauxcahontas". No?

131 Amory Blaine  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:35:18pm

Bubbles Is Frisky

132 Gus  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:35:50pm

re: #124 Dark_Falcon

I honestly don't see much wrong with the term, truth to tell. It seemed just an effective mocking device. Taking a famous person's name and using it to mock someone isn't a new concept.

So it would be OK to call someone a Fauxgoldberg if they claim part Jewish ancestry?

133 jaunte  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:36:39pm

re: #123 Interesting Times

Fuck Mark Steyn with an oil-drilling rig. I am so disgusted that bigoted little bilge-blot is from the same country as me.

Steyn has red hair, orangutans have red hair. We report, you decide.

134 Dark_Falcon  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:37:01pm

re: #127 bratwurst

Is it also "an effective mocking device" when Rush Limbaugh calls the President a "Halfrican American"?

No, because it literally casts no mocking effect. Barack Obama has been candid about his ancestry and how he sees himself. When Rush fling s an ethnic 'joke' at Barack Obama, all that happens is that Rush looks like a blowhard.

135 Mocking Jay  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:38:16pm

re: #134 Dark_Falcon

No, because it literally casts no mocking effect. Barack Obama has been candid about his ancestry and how he sees himself. When Rush fling s an ethnic 'joke' at Barack Obama, all that happens is that Rush looks like a blowhard.

It sounds like you're just arguing that it's an ineffective mocking device...

Here's a clue: it's racist.

136 Amory Blaine  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:39:30pm

Don't forget the O'Keefe fail this week!!!

Conservative filmmaker James O’Keefe released a new video today supposedly exposing voter fraud in North Carolina by highlighting non-citizens like Zbigniew Gorzkowski who have voted in recent elections.

The problem: Gorzkowski is an American citizen.

137 Mich-again  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:39:33pm

Fauxcohantas demonstrates how the sub-intelligent right wingers are just like amateur night stand up comedians who steal lame ass jokes from each other.

138 Dark_Falcon  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:40:01pm

re: #132 Gus

So it would be OK to call someone a Fauxgoldberg if they claim part Jewish ancestry?

It would be if Goldberg was that person's last name, or at least it wouldn't be racist.

Intent has a lot to do with it: When Mark Steyn called Warren "Fauxcahontas", he was not attacking Native Americans in general, he was only attacking Elizabeth Warren in specific.

139 bratwurst  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:40:08pm

re: #133 jaunte

Fuck Mark Steyn with an oil-drilling rig. I am so disgusted that bigoted little bilge-blot is from the same country as me.

Steyn has red hair, orangutans have red hair. We report, you decide.

Steyn also posted a long love letter to Geert Wilders on National Review online but I am too disgusted to post it.

140 Gus  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:40:16pm

re: #134 Dark_Falcon

No, because it literally casts no mocking effect. Barack Obama has been candid about his ancestry and how he sees himself. When Rush fling s an ethnic 'joke' at Barack Obama, all that happens is that Rush looks like a blowhard.

OK. Here's an experiment. Next time you see a black gentleman that seems half white walk up to him and ask him, "sir, you wouldn't happen to be a Halficran would you?"

Bring a movie camera with ya.

141 Dark_Falcon  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:41:45pm

re: #140 Gus

OK. Here's an experiment. Next time you see a black gentleman that seems half white walk up to him and ask him, "sir, you wouldn't happen to be a Halficran would you?"

Bring a movie camera with ya.

Even if it isn't racist, its being an ass. Of course, Rush is both.

142 Gus  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:41:54pm

re: #138 Dark_Falcon

It would be if Goldberg was that person's last name, or at least it wouldn't be racist.

Intent has a lot to do with it: When Mark Steyn called Warren "Fauxcahontas", he was not attacking Native Americans in general, he was only attacking Elizabeth Warren in specific.

Uh. It's not 1968 anymore. You don't call American Indian women Pocahontas unless you're some drunk asshole at a Hooters.

143 Mocking Jay  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:42:10pm

holy shit we have more important things to discuss...

There Can Be Only One... Ryan Reynolds?!

We knew the reboot was coming, with Juan Carlos Fresnadillo directing, but according to Variety, they may have found their Connor McCloud, and it looks like it might be Ryan Reynolds. He is apparently the frontrunner to star in the project,

fuck this planet I'm going home

144 dragonath  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:42:24pm

I'm not totally positive, but I think the US military considers Native American ancestry going back multiple generations.

This controversy probably wouldn't have done anything to Warren, but the rightwing freakout and ham-handed character assassination is really something to see.

145 Mich-again  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:44:53pm

re: #134 Dark_Falcon

No, because it literally casts no mocking effect. Barack Obama has been candid about his ancestry and how he sees himself. When Rush fling s an ethnic 'joke' at Barack Obama, all that happens is that Rush looks like a blowhard.

That would be true if Rush wasn't addressing a beer hall full of racist asshole listeners.

146 bratwurst  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:44:55pm

re: #144 Be Zorch, Daddio

This controversy probably wouldn't have done anything to Warren, but the rightwing freakout and ham-handed character assassination is really something to see.

The right is lucky in the sense that there was SO much nasty behavior on their part in the last few days that this is not really getting as much negative attention as it merits.

147 Interesting Times  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:47:58pm

re: #146 bratwurst

The right is lucky in the sense that there was SO much nasty behavior on their part in the last few days that this is not really getting as much negative attention as it merits.

That's our strategy, dont'cha know. Fling so much poo so fast that even this thing can't clean it up!

148 freetoken  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:48:48pm

re: #147 Interesting Times

Um... it is their strategy, it would appear.

149 Mocking Jay  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:48:59pm

re: #138 Dark_Falcon

It would be if Goldberg was that person's last name, or at least it wouldn't be racist.

Intent has a lot to do with it: When Mark Steyn called Warren "Fauxcahontas", he was not attacking Native Americans in general, he was only attacking Elizabeth Warren in specific.

You have no clue how this works, do you?

150 Dark_Falcon  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:49:32pm

re: #145 Mich-again

That would be true if Rush wasn't addressing a beer hall full of racist asshole listeners.

Point taken. Sometimes I forget for a little while that there are people who take Rush Limbaugh seriously. I don't really understand how they can still do that, so sometimes I forget it.

151 Decatur Deb  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:50:22pm

re: #142 Gus

Uh. It's not 1968 anymore. You don't call American Indian women Pocahontas unless you're some drunk asshole at a Hooters.

That's the point Gus--they're using it to claim she isn't an American Indian, and does not rise to the name. The attack is directed at Warren, not American Indians. There's plenty of racism out there, but this is just normal right-wing character assassination. (There's no love for Pocahontas in the AIM--I've seen it used like 'Uncle Tom'.)

152 Charles Johnson  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:50:27pm

'The Corner' at NRO is currently having technical difficulties:

[Link: www.nationalreview.com...]

Image: ZZ3D9AEE1B.jpg

153 Interesting Times  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:50:36pm

re: #150 Dark_Falcon

Point taken. Sometimes I forget for a little while that there are people who take Rush Limbaugh seriously.

You take his substitute Mark Steyn seriously, which is just as bad.

154 Amory Blaine  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:51:49pm
Anyone else find the slur "fauxcahontas" bigoted and offensive as hell? Would you refer to someone who claimed distant black ancestry as "Aunt Je-lie-ma?" Why are Native Americans considered an acceptable target for this racist crap?

My wife is native american. Re: Pocahontas. 1 warning shall be given.

155 bratwurst  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:52:51pm

re: #153 Interesting Times

You take his substitute Mark Steyn seriously, which is just as bad.

I would go so far as to say it is WORSE. The same person who accepts that Limbaugh is awful in a number of ways has no problem with a man who is unable to see ANY problem with Rush.

156 Mich-again  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:54:49pm

re: #150 Dark_Falcon

If Rush Limbaugh were a Televangelist, every day he'd have a mailbox chock full of envelopes full of cash just for promising to pray for his listener's loved ones. He is virtuoso at appealing to dimwits.

157 Decatur Deb  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:55:15pm

re: #154 Amory Blaine

My wife is native american. Re: Pocahontas. 1 warning shall be given.

My kids are somewhat more Native American than Prof Warren. Let's keep our outrage calibrated.

158 ozbloke  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:56:58pm

re: #152 Charles Johnson

Someone has display_errors turned on in their php.ini, um-arrr.

159 Dark_Falcon  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:57:25pm

re: #154 Amory Blaine

My wife is native american. Re: Pocahontas. 1 warning shall be given.

Won't hear it out of me.

160 Mich-again  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:57:52pm

Dear Rush, I need some advice. The neighbor kid, who is white, is acting ghetto. is it OK to call him a wigger or is that a racist term? //

161 Gus  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:58:07pm

re: #152 Charles Johnson

'The Corner' at NRO is currently having technical difficulties:

[Link: www.nationalreview.com...]

Image: ZZ3D9AEE1B.jpg

...

@Gus_802 and @Lizardoid discussing National Review when suddenly the National Review website crashes? Coincidence??!!

162 Dark_Falcon  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:58:27pm

re: #151 Decatur Deb

That's the point Gus--they're using it to claim she isn't an American Indian, and does not rise to the name. The attack is directed at Warren, not American Indians. There's plenty of racism out there, but this is just normal right-wing character assassination. (There's no love for Pocahontas in the AIM--I've seen it used like 'Uncle Tom'.)

Thank you for your help with that explanation.

163 Kronocide  Fri, May 18, 2012 9:59:07pm

Hannity has some 'panel' on with a bunch of RW bloggers.

Geller is in the back row. Missed the whole thing.

164 Mich-again  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:00:08pm

re: #161 Gus

Just more proof that Lizardoid is a Soros agent sekritly orchestrating all of the lieberal media efff-furts.

165 Mocking Jay  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:00:34pm

Whoa. Since when does clicking on a comment link pop out like that?

166 Amory Blaine  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:00:44pm

re: #154 Amory Blaine

My wife is native american. Re: Pocahontas. 1 warning shall be given.

I only mean to say that in polite conversation, she will give 1 warning with the Pocahantas crap. Cross the line from ignorance to malice and all I have to do is stand back and think "you sorry son of bitch".

167 Interesting Times  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:01:09pm

re: #151 Decatur Deb

(There's no love for Pocahontas in the AIM--I've seen it used like 'Uncle Tom'.)

That's just it, though - it's become a term of insult rooted in bigoted stereotypes.

168 goddamnedfrank  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:02:36pm

re: #151 Decatur Deb

That's the point Gus--they're using it to claim she isn't an American Indian, and does not rise to the name. The attack is directed at Warren, not American Indians. There's plenty of racism out there, but this is just normal right-wing character assassination. (There's no love for Pocahontas in the AIM--I've seen it used like 'Uncle Tom'.)

Regardless of where the attack was directed it applies equally to the current Principal Chief of the Cherokee Nation. That's what makes it such bullshit, ignorant white assholes arrogating themselves to be the arbiters of who has enough blood to claim it.

169 Mocking Jay  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:02:50pm

re: #151 Decatur Deb

That's the point Gus--they're using it to claim she isn't an American Indian, and does not rise to the name. The attack is directed at Warren, not American Indians. There's plenty of racism out there, but this is just normal right-wing character assassination. (There's no love for Pocahontas in the AIM--I've seen it used like 'Uncle Tom'.)

And if whitey mcwhite me were to call a black man "Uncle Tom"... how do you think that would play out?

170 Dark_Falcon  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:04:30pm

Too weary to continue. Good night, all.

171 bratwurst  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:05:02pm

re: #168 goddamnedfrank

Regardless of where the attack was directed it applies equally to the current Principal Chief of the Cherokee Nation. That's what makes it such bullshit, ignorant white assholes arrogating themselves to be the arbiters of who has enough blood to claim it.

But you have to admit it's for a good cause...winning a toss-up Senate seat. ///

172 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:06:15pm

OMG! I am so tired and I want to go to bed, but am waiting up for the teenager to come home.

Won't be able to sleep otherwise.

You?

173 Decatur Deb  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:06:51pm

re: #168 goddamnedfrank

Regardless of where the attack was directed it applies equally to the current Principal Chief of the Cherokee Nation. That's what makes it such bullshit, ignorant white assholes arrogating themselves to be the arbiters of who has enough blood to claim it.

They were asserting she had no genetic or cultural link, giving her no claim. It turns out she could prove otherwise.

174 Amory Blaine  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:07:04pm

I'm deciding between northern lights and headband this evening. Washed down with a wine spritzer. :p

175 Decatur Deb  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:08:39pm

re: #169 It's a cookbook!

And if whitey mcwhite me were to call a black man "Uncle Tom"... how do you think that would play out?

It would be a deadly insult, especially if not true. It would be an attack on his character, not his race.

176 Interesting Times  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:08:57pm

re: #173 Decatur Deb

They were asserting she had no genetic or cultural link, giving her no claim. It turns out she could prove otherwise.

Then why are they blissfully continuing to use the slur?

177 Decatur Deb  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:10:07pm

re: #176 Interesting Times

Then why are they blissfully continuing to use the slur?

Because they hate her, and her politics, and it's probably the only pun they ever came up with.

178 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:10:50pm

re: #177 Decatur Deb

Because they hate her, and her politics, and it's probably the only pun they ever came up with.

THAT is a very sad thing.

179 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:11:18pm

I feel so old.

180 Mocking Jay  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:13:57pm

re: #175 Decatur Deb

It would be a deadly insult, especially if not true. It would be an attack on his character, not his race.

Uh huh. So if I called a white guy an Uncle Tom I would get more than just a puzzled look?

181 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:14:12pm

From Armchair Patriots.

Perfect, Powerful.

Share if you like.

182 bratwurst  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:14:48pm

re: #172 ggt

OMG! I am so tired and I want to go to bed, but am waiting up for the teenager to come home.

Won't be able to sleep otherwise.

You?

Eh, I am still awake because I am upset over having to quit my teaching job last night. I was working for a vocational kind of school here in Chicagoland where there is a "student" who has been accused at least twice of making highly inappropriate remarks to women, including one in my class. The school sees this as "hearsay" because the women involved are not inclined to step up and potentially have to confront this guy. Due to this and lack of evidence that the women involved were "afraid" , they are powerless to do anything. I told them that considering the warning signs, there is no way I will allow myself to have a further (and potentially more serious) incident on my conscience....so I walked out after school last night.

183 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:16:01pm

re: #182 bratwurst

Eh, I am still awake because I am upset over having to quit my teaching job last night. I was working for a vocational kind of school here in Chicagoland where there is a "student" who has been accused at least twice of making highly inappropriate remarks to women, including one in my class. The school sees this as "hearsay" because the women involved are not inclined to step up and potentially have to confront this guy. Due to this and lack of evidence that the women involved were "afraid" , they are powerless to do anything. I told them that considering the warning signs, there is no way I will allow myself to have a further (and potentially more serious) incident on my conscience...so I walked out after school last night.

That sucks!

I don't understand the women who are afraid of confrontation, but then I had a good Dad. I think that makes all the difference.

184 Decatur Deb  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:16:47pm

re: #180 It's a cookbook!

Uh huh. So if I called a white guy an Uncle Tom I would get more than just a puzzled look?

No, your equivalent would be what some of my Alabama neighbors call me.

185 bratwurst  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:18:43pm

re: #183 ggt

That sucks!

I don't understand the women who are afraid of confrontation, but then I had a good Dad. I think that makes all the difference.

Might be a cultural thing as these are international students. The thing about the most recent incident is that the woman involved dares not tell her husband, a Serbian body builder and security guard. He would LITERALLY kill the guy involved...but the school does nothing.

186 Mocking Jay  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:19:19pm

re: #184 Decatur Deb

No, your equivalent would be what some of my Alabama neighbors call me.

It's not about equivalents. It's about Uncle Tom being used to specifically refer to a certain race. Same thing goes for Pocahontas.

187 Decatur Deb  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:19:33pm

re: #182 bratwurst

Eh, I am still awake because I am upset over having to quit my teaching job last night. I was working for a vocational kind of school here in Chicagoland where there is a "student" who has been accused at least twice of making highly inappropriate remarks to women, including one in my class. The school sees this as "hearsay" because the women involved are not inclined to step up and potentially have to confront this guy. Due to this and lack of evidence that the women involved were "afraid" , they are powerless to do anything. I told them that considering the warning signs, there is no way I will allow myself to have a further (and potentially more serious) incident on my conscience...so I walked out after school last night.

Isn't there a more effective way you can turn him around? Sounds like the class atmosphere will be worse without you there.

188 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:21:54pm

Facebook shares see modest debut

Anyone outside the Nasdaq's head office in Times Square would have never guessed that this was one of the biggest days in stock market history, with just a few sleepy looking tourists outside the door and a lot of commuters bustling through on their way to work.

Later a few TV crews showed up. But there were no queues of frenzied investors desperate to get a slice of the biggest technology share issue ever. The Nasdaq is a computerised trading platform. It doesn't really have a physical presence.

After a half an hour delay caused by a technical hitch, 82 million Facebook shares changed hands in the first 30 seconds of trading.

First the price shot up - and then it started going down. Nobody had predicted that might happen. It was a roller coaster start, but the big question remains.

Nobody knows yet whether an eight-year-old internet firm founded in a student's bedroom will prove itself to be truly worth more than $100bn, even if it can claim a staggering 13% of the world's population as subscribers.

That is a shit-load of trades! Not possible with out computers --how far we have come in such a short time.

I'm feeling old again.

189 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:23:01pm

re: #185 bratwurst

Might be a cultural thing as these are international students. The thing about the most recent incident is that the woman involved dares not tell her husband, a Serbian body builder and security guard. He would LITERALLY kill the guy involved...but the school does nothing.

That gets me too. My husband would make a big stink. And the thing is --why would I want to involve him? I can handle it.

190 Decatur Deb  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:23:02pm

re: #186 It's a cookbook!

It's not about equivalents. It's about Uncle Tom being used to specifically refer to a certain race. Same thing goes for Pocahontas.

Referring to a race is not racism. Intent and context matter. In this case the target was entirely Warren. If you cruise some of the rwnj blogs you'll find some attackers claiming they are part/married to/have good Indian friends.

191 bratwurst  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:23:55pm

re: #187 Decatur Deb

Isn't there a more effective way you can turn him around? Sounds like the class atmosphere will be worse without you there.

Unfortunately no. This guy is STRICTLY enrolled for a student visa and won't listen to anyone about anything. It is my honest opinion that the only way he might modify his behavior is with a threat of losing his visa. I, of course, feel badly for my other students...but if the institution won't act in their interest by attempting to modify the behavior of a known bad actor, there is not much that someone in my position can really do.

192 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:25:38pm

re: #189 ggt

That gets me too. My husband would make a big stink. And the thing is --why would I want to involve him? I can handle it.

And when he involves himself without my asking, I get really pissed.

I feel like I'm a possession --not a person in my own right. I know it's' not meant that way, but that is how if feels.

193 Decatur Deb  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:25:53pm

re: #191 bratwurst

Unfortunately no. This guy is STRICTLY enrolled for a student visa and won't listen to anyone about anything. It is my honest opinion that the only way he might modify his behavior is with a threat of losing his visa. I, of course, feel badly for my other students...but if the institution won't act in their interest by attempting to modify the behavior of a known bad actor, there is not much that someone in my position can really do.

Is there a formal body in the school charged with sorting out this situation? No EEO/omsbudsman sort of thing?

194 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:26:41pm

re: #193 Decatur Deb

Is there a formal body in the school charged with sorting out this situation? No EEO/omsbudsman sort of thing?

If the women won't come forward, it's really hard.

Perhaps it needs to be taken care by some of his fellow students. Sometimes the only way is if the peer group shows disapproval.

195 Flavia  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:28:15pm

re: #111 Decatur Deb

Not to the One-Droppers.

Yes, but most Americans are not "One Droppers". Most Americans would, if told someone had "1/32 African ancestry" blink, squint & shrug.

196 bratwurst  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:29:01pm

re: #193 Decatur Deb

Is there a formal body in the school charged with sorting out this situation? No EEO/omsbudsman sort of thing?

That is pretty much who told me that without someone willing to risk confronting this nitwit, there was nothing to be done. This same school is about to try to implement a policy mandating that students only speak English during their BREAK times...but won't do anything about this guy. It's unreal to me.

197 Mocking Jay  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:29:06pm

re: #190 Decatur Deb

Referring to a race is not racism. Intent and context matter. In this case the target was entirely Warren. If you cruise some of the rwnj blogs you'll find some attackers claiming they are part/married to/have good Indian friends.

It really doesn't work that way. If I were to call Barack Obama an "Uncle Tom," many African Americans would be offended. Saying "but I was only talking about him!" wouldn't mitigate the blowback.

Remember, Don Imus was only talking about the Rutgers University women's basketball team.

198 Decatur Deb  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:29:53pm

re: #194 ggt

If the women won't come forward, it's really hard.

Perhaps it needs to be taken care by some of his fellow students. Sometimes the only way is if the peer group shows disapproval.

Don't know the situation, but in a larger school there should be both student and faculty support groups. The school legal loss control people would want to minimize their risk just for selfish institutional reasons. Driving out a non-braindead teacher seems like a setback.

199 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:30:07pm

re: #195 Flavia

Yes, but most Americans are not "One Droppers". Most Americans would, if told someone had "1/32 African ancestry" blink, squint & shrug.

I agree

200 Decatur Deb  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:31:18pm

re: #195 Flavia

Yes, but most Americans are not "One Droppers". Most Americans would, if told someone had "1/32 African ancestry" blink, squint & shrug.

Yeah. The poster I was supporting was not careful in that usage. As we say down here, "I knew what he meant".

201 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:32:21pm

re: #198 Decatur Deb

Don't know the situation, but in a larger school there should be both student and faculty support groups. The school legal loss control people would want to minimize their risk just for selfish institutional reasons. Driving out a non-brain dead teacher seems like a setback.

Weak HR?

Schools seem to have laws of their very own --school specific too!

Very Weird to me. It's like their own policies or lack thereof supersede the law.

202 Decatur Deb  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:32:56pm

re: #197 It's a cookbook!

It really doesn't work that way. If I were to call Barack Obama an "Uncle Tom," many African Americans would be offended. Saying "but I was only talking about him!" wouldn't mitigate the blowback.

Remember, Don Imus was only talking about the Rutgers University women's basketball team.

Of course they'd be offended. Fewer might be less offended if you said it about Justice Thomas.

203 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:34:17pm

The legal system can be so strange:

Maryland's top court recognises same-sex divorce

Maryland has recognised out-of-state same sex marriages since 2010

Gay couples can get divorced in Maryland even though same-sex marriage is not yet allowed in the US state, its highest court has ruled.

Maryland's Court of Appeals unanimously ruled in the case of two women married in California who were denied a divorce in the state in 2010.

Gay marriage was legalised in Maryland in March, and is to begin in January.

But opponents hope voters will overturn the measure in a referendum this November.

To do so, 56,000 signatures must be gathered by the end of June in favour of such a ballot.

"A valid out-of-state same-sex marriage should be treated by Maryland courts as worthy of divorce, according to the applicable statutes, reported cases, and court rules of this state," the judges' ruling said.

Jessica Port, 29, and Virginia Cowan, 32, were married in California in 2008, shortly before gay marriage in that US state was banned by a constitutional amendment known as Proposition 8.

Nearly two years later, the couple filed for divorce in Maryland where they had been living at the time, but a Prince George's County judge declined to grant it.

204 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:36:20pm

THis give me goosebumps:

SpaceX capsule to launch on Falcon rocket

By Jonathan Amos
Science correspondent, BBC News

California's SpaceX company is ready to make history by sending a capsule containing half a tonne of supplies to the space station.

It will be the first time the private sector has provided such a service.

The task is usually performed by the vehicles belonging to government space agencies, such as Nasa and Esa.

The unmanned Dragon cargo ship is due to launch atop SpaceX's own Falcon 9 rocket from Cape Canaveral Air Force Station in Florida.

Controllers are targeting a time of 04:55 EDT (08:55 GMT; 09:55 BST), and despite some storms in the area in recent days, the mission team should get favourable weather conditions.

"There's no question - this is a historic flight," said SpaceX president Gwynne Shotwell on the eve of the mission.

"There've been only four nations, or groups of nations, that have berthed or docked a spacecraft to the International Space Station: Europe, Russia, the United States of course, and Japan. So, we really stand in awe at having the opportunity to attempt this."

205 Decatur Deb  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:36:46pm

re: #203 ggt

The legal system can be so strange:

There's a Colbert routine in there somewhere.

206 bratwurst  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:37:30pm

re: #198 Decatur Deb

Don't know the situation, but in a larger school there should be both student and faculty support groups. The school legal loss control people would want to minimize their risk just for selfish institutional reasons. Driving out a non-braindead teacher seems like a setback.

This is kind of an odd situation. To make a long story short, this school is about to go through an accreditation process that they are clearly VERY nervous about....as well they should be, they have essentially been running a student visa mill. I certainly did my best to actually teach whoever was interested, but overall the place is more than a bit of a joke. I really think their mentality is to sweep any and everything under the rug that isn't related to accreditation with the justification that there won't be any school AT ALL if they fail.

I have been teaching for most of the last two decades in various capacities and I have just had it. If I start a new job sweeping the street, within about 6 months I will have achieved about the same level of respect and prestige as I have teaching! It is sad because I have had some amazing experiences working in 3 different countries, but I am finished. Time to do something else.

207 Gus  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:37:39pm

Dear God. I just searched for Elizabeth Warren Indian in Google images. First I ever seen anything of this. It's insanity. All of it.

208 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:39:11pm

re: #206 bratwurst

This is kind of an odd situation. To make a long story short, this school is about to go through an accreditation process that they are clearly VERY nervous about...as well they should be, they have essentially been running a student visa mill. I certainly did my best to actually teach whoever was interested, but overall the place is more than a bit of a joke. I really think their mentality is to sweep any and everything under the rug that isn't related to accreditation with the justification that there won't be any school AT ALL if they fail.

I have been teaching for most of the last two decades in various capacities and I have just had it. If I start a new job sweeping the street, within about 6 months I will have achieved about the same level of respect and prestige as I have teaching! It is sad because I have had some amazing experiences working in 3 different countries, but I am finished. Time to do something else.

I think teachers have very much gone the way of doctors --You don't get to do your job, really. You have to follow orders and work within a framework whether or not it is the best for the student/patient.

209 Decatur Deb  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:41:14pm

re: #206 bratwurst

This is kind of an odd situation. To make a long story short, this school is about to go through an accreditation process that they are clearly VERY nervous about...as well they should be, they have essentially been running a student visa mill. I certainly did my best to actually teach whoever was interested, but overall the place is more than a bit of a joke. I really think their mentality is to sweep any and everything under the rug that isn't related to accreditation with the justification that there won't be any school AT ALL if they fail.

I have been teaching for most of the last two decades in various capacities and I have just had it. If I start a new job sweeping the street, within about 6 months I will have achieved about the same level of respect and prestige as I have teaching! It is sad because I have had some amazing experiences working in 3 different countries, but I am finished. Time to do something else.

It's a rough economy to be cavalier, but it looks like they're not where you want to be. I just hope the signs of a general improvement will play out.

210 dragonath  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:41:39pm

re: #207 Gus

But liberals are the REAL racists?!?!!

211 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:42:17pm

Can Israel sue for Iran leaving them off the map?

Iran 'to sue Google' for not labelling Gulf on world map

212 bratwurst  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:43:05pm

re: #208 ggt

I think teachers have very much gone the way of doctors --You don't get to do your job, really. You have to follow orders and work within a framework whether or not it is the best for the student/patient.

Nail on the head. I have been around long enough to know that schools have NO interest in what's best for me...but I demand that they act in the best interest of students! This puts me increasingly at odds with administrators.

213 Decatur Deb  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:43:15pm

re: #207 Gus

Dear God. I just searched for Elizabeth Warren Indian in Google images. First I ever seen anything of this. It's insanity. All of it.

She's a threat to them. I hope she pulls off the senate run and is in some kind of position for 2016.

214 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:44:40pm

re: #213 Decatur Deb

She's a threat to them. I hope she pulls off the senate run and is in some kind of position for 2016.

A woman with a brain and the politcal savvy to get things done.

OMG, the world will come to an end soon now --it's one of the signs of the apocalypse.

/gah

215 Gus  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:45:12pm

re: #213 Decatur Deb

She's a threat to them. I hope she pulls off the senate run and is in some kind of position for 2016.

Looks like they're tied. Scott Brown's kind of a dick too.

216 Mocking Jay  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:45:28pm

re: #207 Gus

Dear God. I just searched for Elizabeth Warren Indian in Google images. First I ever seen anything of this. It's insanity. All of it.

See? Not racist.

217 bratwurst  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:46:47pm

re: #209 Decatur Deb

It's a rough economy to be cavalier, but it looks like they're not where you want to be. I just hope the signs of a general improvement will play out.

You are exactly right. I knew I was on my way out of there sooner rather than later in any case. I am fortunate that I don't have to worry about being able to pay the rent...indeed, I will greatly appreciate some time to focus on my health which has been unfortunately impacted by this working situation. On top of everything else, I found that working nights REALLY didn't agree with me at all. I take my hat off to those who do it regularly, I can't handle it.

218 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:47:02pm

re: #212 bratwurst

Nail on the head. I have been around long enough to know that schools have NO interest in what's best for me...but I demand that they act in the best interest of students! This puts me increasingly at odds with administrators.

There is some name for it, I can't remember (as usual).

Where the size of a population requires streamlining and the result is better for the majority of individuals overall (higher literacy, less cancer whatever) but doesn't work well if there is someone who doesn't fit the mold.

No matter how they try to tailor laws and policy there is always some situation that doesn't fit.

219 Decatur Deb  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:48:05pm

re: #216 It's a cookbook!

See? Not racist.

Plenty of racism in that bunch--but it's not about a word.

220 dragonath  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:49:00pm

Hey is the Boston Herald a wannabe New York Post or something? The image search turns up a bunch of BREATHLESS!! front page headlines.

221 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:50:05pm

Progress!?


Malawi to overturn homosexual ban, Joyce Banda says

Joyce Banda is doing her best to get donor funding restored to Malawi

President Joyce Banda has said she wants Malawi to overturn its ban on homosexual acts - the first African country to do so since 1994.

Two Malawian men were sentenced to 14 years in prison in 2010 after saying they were getting married.

Several Western leaders have recently said they would cut aid to countries which did not recognise gay rights.

222 Mocking Jay  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:50:09pm
223 Decatur Deb  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:51:03pm

re: #222 It's a cookbook!

Image: elizabeth_warren.jpg

Not very good spellers, either.

224 Gus  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:51:35pm

The Smearing of Elizabeth Warren
By Ed Kilgore

Until today, I was only vaguely aware that Scott Brown’s campaign and its allies were trying to make a big deal out of Democratic Senate candidate Elizabeth Warren’s past self-identification (and once, her identification by Harvard Law School) as a “Native American.” It mainly caught my attention because, like Warren (and for that matter, like many white people I’ve known from North Georgia or Oklahoma), I have a Cherokee ancestor, a great-great-grandmother as it happpens, though I’ve never self-identified myself that way.

Then I ran across a Boston Herald (the original source of the whole story) column by a certain Howie Carr that shows exactly how ugly and overtly racial this attack-line has become. It’s not, in fact, really about Elizabeth Warren, but about an increasingly aggressive effort on the Right to invent a nightmare-world where incompetent women and minorities are lording it over the poor afflicted white male.

Keep in mind that there is not a shred of evidence that Warren ever benefitted in any way from her self-identification; indeed, every university who’s hired her in the course of her very distinguished academic career has indicated they weren’t even aware of it, and certainly didn’t make it a factor in employing her...

225 Mocking Jay  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:51:40pm

re: #223 Decatur Deb

Not very good spellers, either.

Try not to sound so surprised.

226 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:52:21pm

re: #225 It's a cookbook!

Try not to sound so surprised.

at first I though it read: faux-cahones.

227 Gus  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:52:37pm

re: #224 Gus

The Smearing of Elizabeth Warren
By Ed Kilgore

...

That doesn’t deter Carr from asserting that “Pocohantas” Warren “parlayed the racial-spoils racket all the way to a tenured position at Harvard Law,” or that her case “shows just how morally and intellectually bankrupt ‘affirmative action’ is.” For good measure, he lurches into an equally unsubstantiated claim that President Obama got a “free pass to Columbia and Harvard Law” because of his race.

228 Mocking Jay  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:52:41pm

re: #226 ggt

at first I though it read: faux-cahones.

She has those too.

229 freetoken  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:52:57pm

re: #223 Decatur Deb

Not very good spellers, either.

Hehe... I tried a Google search on "Cahontis" and the all-seeing Google asks me "Did you mean 'Pocahontas?'

230 Gus  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:53:53pm

Here's Howie Carr...

Image: 480px-Howie_Carr_by_Paul_Keleher.jpg

Looks like a douche bag to me. No doubt well over 1/32nd douche.

231 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:54:46pm

Kid just texted and said he'd be home "soon".

WTF does that mean coming from a teenager?

232 Mocking Jay  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:54:56pm

re: #224 Gus

That's the part that disgusts me the most. If she had made any gains from calling herself native-american, or made some ridiculous claim that she understood them because she was one of them, I could kind of understand the contempt. That never happened.

233 Decatur Deb  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:56:04pm

re: #224 Gus

The Smearing of Elizabeth Warren
By Ed Kilgore

The BS give-away is that she never could claim a career advantage, and the schools couldn't count affirmative-action coup. Genetics alone don't meet EEOC criteria--you have to maintain a Native cultural identity.

234 Gus  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:57:03pm

re: #232 It's a cookbook!

That's the part that disgusts me the most. If she had made any gains from calling herself native-american, or made some ridiculous claim that she understood them because she was one of them, I could kind of understand the contempt. That never happened.

So basically she wasn't even bringing this up during the campaign. The Brown camp picked up on it and it became a smear campaign through the right wing surrogates. Including all of the usual fictional embellishments.

235 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:57:39pm

Well, I'm going to get ready for bed.

Maybe he'll be home by the time I am finished.

Ha!

NIght all, have a good one.

236 Decatur Deb  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:57:53pm

re: #234 Gus

So basically she wasn't even bringing this up during the campaign. The Brown camp picked up on it and it became a smear campaign through the right wing surrogates. Including all of the usual fictional embellishments.

Opposition research a la Rove.

237 Mocking Jay  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:58:39pm

re: #234 Gus

So basically she wasn't even bringing this up during the campaign. The Brown camp picked up on it and it became a smear campaign through the right wing surrogates. Including all of the usual fictional embellishments.

Have they found her pastor yet?

238 dragonath  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:59:04pm

So this is what happens when you are 1/32th of the wrong kind of blood.

Republicans...

239 Decatur Deb  Fri, May 18, 2012 10:59:45pm

re: #237 It's a cookbook!

Have they found her pastor yet?

Wasn't Wovoka.

240 Mocking Jay  Fri, May 18, 2012 11:00:54pm

re: #239 Decatur Deb

Wasn't Wovoka.

Had to Google. Funny.

241 Gus  Fri, May 18, 2012 11:02:07pm

re: #230 Gus

Here's Howie Carr...

Image: 480px-Howie_Carr_by_Paul_Keleher.jpg

Looks like a douche bag to me. No doubt well over 1/32nd douche.

...

On July 10, 2009, Carr underwent hip replacement surgery at Massachusetts General Hospital. Although Carr was supposed to be off the air for several weeks, he was able to "call in" and begin the show as if he were in the studio, although he was actually still in bed at Mass General. More recently, Carr has undergone cosmetic surgery, including liposuction, hair restoration, and varicose vein removal, apparently for promotional consideration.

242 Mocking Jay  Fri, May 18, 2012 11:02:50pm

re: #234 Gus

So basically she wasn't even bringing this up during the campaign. The Brown camp picked up on it and it became a smear campaign through the right wing surrogates. Including all of the usual fictional embellishments.

This is what happens when you have no fucking ideas, no direction, and no desire to concede on any points to the opposition.

243 Decatur Deb  Fri, May 18, 2012 11:04:11pm

Hell, I've lost 2 hrs sleep. 'Nite, all.

244 Kragar  Fri, May 18, 2012 11:05:18pm

re: #231 ggt

Kid just texted and said he'd be home "soon".

WTF does that mean coming from a teenager?

Soon...

245 Mocking Jay  Fri, May 18, 2012 11:06:56pm

re: #244 Kragar

Dude. Dude. Did you see this shit?

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

246 ProGunLiberal  Fri, May 18, 2012 11:10:34pm

I have a follower request from a "Gonzalo."

Is he okay? Or a stalker or something else? I am suspicious of others online.

247 Gus  Fri, May 18, 2012 11:13:20pm

re: #246 ProGunLiberal

I have a follower request from a "Gonzalo."

Is he okay? Or a stalker or something else? I am suspicious of others online.

This guy? Looks normal.

248 Kragar  Fri, May 18, 2012 11:13:46pm

re: #245 It's a cookbook!

Dude. Dude. Did you see this shit?

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

WTF? ENOUGH WITH REMAKES AND ENOUGH WITH FRICKING HIGHLANDERS!

I want my Deadpool movie!

249 Mocking Jay  Fri, May 18, 2012 11:14:48pm

re: #248 Kragar

WTF? ENOUGH WITH REMAKES AND ENOUGH WITH FRICKING HIGHLANDERS!

I want my Deadpool movie!

THERE CAN BE ONLY... wait, what was that number again?

250 ProGunLiberal  Fri, May 18, 2012 11:15:05pm

re: #247 Gus

Yeah, that guy.

re: #241 Gus

And a vain douchebag too. And from the looks of the picture, the plastic surgery was in vain.

251 Kragar  Fri, May 18, 2012 11:16:44pm

re: #249 It's a cookbook!

THERE CAN BE ONLY... wait, what was that number again?

And the TV show was just as terrible. Every episode was the same.

Meets old friend, flashback to good ole days, friend goes nuts, beheads friend

252 Kragar  Fri, May 18, 2012 11:20:37pm

Trying Skyrim as something other than a Khajit Thief/Archer, tis different

253 Mocking Jay  Fri, May 18, 2012 11:20:42pm

re: #251 Kragar

And the TV show was just as terrible. Every episode was the same.

Meets old friend, flashback to good ole days, friend goes nuts, beheads friend

Between this and Green Lantern I'm starting to suspect that casting directors don't really get Ryan Reynolds.

254 ProGunLiberal  Fri, May 18, 2012 11:22:17pm

re: #252 Kragar

Birth By Sleep is going well for me.

Except that me and the Command Board are in a dispute over Pete.

In that he won't show up. I try to be a completionist as much as possible, and I already had to concede one mini-game chunk due to my dysgraphia.

255 Kragar  Fri, May 18, 2012 11:25:23pm

re: #254 ProGunLiberal

Birth By Sleep is going well for me.

Except that me and the Command Board are in a dispute over Pete.

In that he won't show up. I try to be a completionist as much as possible, and I already had to concede one mini-game chunk due to my dysgraphia.

Wife is mad at me because I burned out on SW:OTR so fast.

256 Mocking Jay  Fri, May 18, 2012 11:27:00pm

re: #255 Kragar

Wife is mad at me because I burned out on SW:OTR so fast.

Me too. I haven't even patched it since before Legacy. And now Diablo 3 is poking me. Telling me how much I want to buy it and slide it into my disc drive...

257 Kragar  Fri, May 18, 2012 11:30:25pm

re: #256 It's a cookbook!

Me too. I haven't even patched it since before Legacy. And now Diablo 3 is poking me. Telling me how much I want to buy it and slide it into my disc drive...

It was fun, but then you hit 50, and its the same old daily crap as every other MMO, and the replay value is minimal.

258 Mocking Jay  Fri, May 18, 2012 11:31:41pm

re: #257 Kragar

It was fun, but then you hit 50, and its the same old daily crap as every other MMO, and the replay value is minimal.

Yeah, that was my impression as well. Part of me was curious to get to 50 with other classes, but not curious enough.

259 Gus  Fri, May 18, 2012 11:42:01pm
260 The Great Ralph  Fri, May 18, 2012 11:43:08pm

re: #220 Be Zorch, Daddio


The Boston Herald and NY Post are both Murdoch rags.

261 Gus  Fri, May 18, 2012 11:49:08pm

That's her speaking in German.

262 Mocking Jay  Sat, May 19, 2012 12:08:29am

Christ, The Avengers is leaving a bloody trail of shattered blockbuster dreams in just its third weekend.

[Link: www.deadline.com...]

263 Kragar  Sat, May 19, 2012 12:32:20am

re: #262 It's a cookbook!

Christ, The Avengers is leaving a bloody trail of shattered blockbuster dreams in just its third weekend.

[Link: www.deadline.com...]

Battleship looked terrible from the get-go, no surprise it got worked over like Loki meeting the Hulk.

Image: Puny-god.gif

264 Mocking Jay  Sat, May 19, 2012 12:37:29am

re: #263 Kragar

Battleship looked terrible from the get-go, no surprise it got worked over like Loki meeting the Hulk.

Image: Puny-god.gif

Can't wait for the Blu-ray in September so we can have a high-def version of that gif.

265 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, May 19, 2012 12:37:33am

:-)

irony

266 Mocking Jay  Sat, May 19, 2012 12:39:10am

re: #265 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)

:-)

irony

Truth!

267 Lidane  Sat, May 19, 2012 12:40:04am

re: #133 jaunte

Fuck Mark Steyn with an oil-drilling rig.

Why do you hate oil-drilling rigs? What did they ever do to you?

///

268 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, May 19, 2012 12:40:49am

re: #261 Gus

That's her speaking in German.

Hearing American celebrities speak German is really weird for me.

269 Lidane  Sat, May 19, 2012 12:40:59am

re: #248 Kragar

I want my Deadpool movie!

As long as it's the actual Deadpool and not the abomination they offered in the Wolverine movie.

270 Kragar  Sat, May 19, 2012 12:42:43am

re: #269 Lidane

As long as it's the actual Deadpool and not the abomination they offered in the Wolverine movie.

What Wolverine movie? I don't recall any Wolverine movie and if you try to show me anything to the contrary its obviously a lie.
/

271 Lidane  Sat, May 19, 2012 12:42:50am

re: #263 Kragar

Battleship looked terrible from the get-go, no surprise it got worked over like Loki meeting the Hulk.

Shorter Hulk v. Loki:

272 Mocking Jay  Sat, May 19, 2012 12:45:50am

re: #271 Lidane

Shorter Hulk v. Loki:

[Embedded content]

Your definition of "shorter" is out of sync with mine. :P

273 Lidane  Sat, May 19, 2012 12:46:47am

re: #272 It's a cookbook!

Your definition of "shorter" is out of sync with mine. :P

OK, fine. They take about the same amount of time. Still, that clip sums up Hulk v. Loki. Haha.

274 EdDantes  Sat, May 19, 2012 12:49:36am

re: #268 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)

Hearing American celebrities speak German is really weird for me.

[Embedded content]

Ach, Du lieber.

275 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, May 19, 2012 12:53:21am

Sweet dreams

276 Lidane  Sat, May 19, 2012 12:56:17am

G'night all! Be well. :)

277 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, May 19, 2012 1:04:44am

re: #275 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)

Sweet dreams y'all

ftfy

278 researchok  Sat, May 19, 2012 1:27:21am

Morning, all

279 freetoken  Sat, May 19, 2012 1:55:56am
280 freetoken  Sat, May 19, 2012 2:19:09am

It's hard to believe, but it's been almost 70 years since Cole broke out on the charts, with All for You.

282 RadicalModerate  Sat, May 19, 2012 3:12:39am

re: #204 ggt

THis give me goosebumps:

Bad news. Launch aborted at main engine start due to an overpressurization reading in one of the engines. Since today's launch window was literally one second in length, engineers had no choice but to scrub and reschedule for May 22.

[Link: www.reuters.com...]

283 RogueOne  Sat, May 19, 2012 5:30:25am

Morning All!

I hate to start the morning off bitching but as a man married to a Woman Of Color I'd like to point out that Pocahontas is NOT a caricature and equating her with Aunt Jemima and an Uncle Tom is highly offensive.

It's called "sarcasm". It's not racist to call someone caught lying about their Native American heritage a "Faux" Indian. That would be like accusing people of being anti-Semitic for calling someone who did something stupid "Einstein".

284 RogueOne  Sat, May 19, 2012 5:34:24am

re: #281 May Day! May Day!

What decade were those recorded? That sounds like a russian Falco.

285 Obdicut  Sat, May 19, 2012 5:39:10am

re: #283 RogueOne

She wasn't lying.

286 kirkspencer  Sat, May 19, 2012 5:46:24am

re: #208 ggt

I think teachers have very much gone the way of doctors --You don't get to do your job, really. You have to follow orders and work within a framework whether or not it is the best for the student/patient.

Well, except for the difference in where the decimal lies in the respective paychecks, I suppose.

(semi /)

287 RogueOne  Sat, May 19, 2012 5:50:00am

re: #285 Obdicut

It's gone from 1/32 to zilch. There is zero evidence she has even a drop of Native American blood in her system.

[Link: articles.boston.com...]

Correction: Because of a reporting error, a story in the May 1 Metro section and the accompanying headline incorrectly described the 1894 document that was purported to list Elizabeth Warren’s great-great-great grandmother as a Cherokee. The document, alluded to in a family newsletter found by the New England Historic Genealogical Society, was an application for a marriage license, not the license itself. Neither the society nor the Globe has seen the primary document, whose existence has not been proven.

288 Obdicut  Sat, May 19, 2012 5:53:33am

re: #287 RogueOne

She may possibly have been mistaken-- that the family lore was wrong. But she's lot lying.

Since she never used the claim to her advantage, but it was only social, I have no idea why people are flipping out about it so much. It's such a bizarre area to attack someone on. And it may not be directly racist, but it's certainly quickly slips into racism, as a quick google search will show.

289 Decatur Deb  Sat, May 19, 2012 5:54:56am

re: #288 Obdicut

She may possibly have been mistaken-- that the family lore was wrong. But she's lot lying.

Since she never used the claim to her advantage, but it was only social, I have no idea why people are flipping out about it so much. It's such a bizarre area to attack someone on. And it may not be directly racist, but it's certainly quickly slips into racism, as a quick google search will show.

They're flipping out because she is The Enemy and that's what rwnjs do.

'Morning, all.

290 kirkspencer  Sat, May 19, 2012 5:56:05am

re: #287 RogueOne

It's gone from 1/32 to zilch. There is zero evidence she has even a drop of Native American blood in her system.

[Link: articles.boston.com...]

Again, SHE WASN'T LYING. Read the link #224Gus provided. A smear campaign started because Howie Carr claimed Warren was claiming it to sway votes.

291 Obdicut  Sat, May 19, 2012 5:56:36am

re: #289 Decatur Deb

Not much of one. One of my cats peed inside the backpack I use for fetching groceries from the wilds of Trader Joe's, so now I have to use a collection of cloth bags from TJ Max, Victoria's Secret, and Farmington Horse Trainers. I'm probably going to get arrested on my way through Central Park.

Yet, off I go.

292 Decatur Deb  Sat, May 19, 2012 5:57:34am

re: #291 Obdicut

Not much of one. One of my cats peed inside the backpack I use for fetching groceries from the wilds of Trader Joe's, so now I have to use a collection of cloth bags from TJ Max, Victoria's Secret, and Farmington Horse Trainers. I'm probably going to get arrested on my way through Central Park.

Yet, off I go.

Steal a shopping cart from Gristede's.

293 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, May 19, 2012 6:02:45am

It's Morning.

Here

How are you?

294 RogueOne  Sat, May 19, 2012 6:03:48am

re: #288 Obdicut

I'll accept "lying" is probably the wrong term since (A.) I can't prove it and (B.) I think it's entirely possible she's going on what she was told.

Personally I think she embellished her background a bit. I said a week ago that the number of people who claim to be Indian is equivalent to the number of people who claim to have attended woodstock or former military folks who claim to be special forces. I don't think it's a big deal.

She would have been hired by both UoP and Harvard without the Indian background. She had a good track record and she hasn't done anything since then to show she wasn't 100% qualified and the same can be said of her as a potential senator. OTOH, I don't think we can say it played no role in her hiring since the University of Pennsylvania and Harvard both played up her Indian heritage. They were awfully quick to take advantage of her "minority" status.

295 RogueOne  Sat, May 19, 2012 6:08:12am

re: #290 kirkspencer

I did read it and you'll notice the byline date is May 2 a week before the evidence of her Native American status came crashing to the ground. There are multiple mistakes in the piece because of its age.

For example:

there is not a shred of evidence that Warren ever benefitted in any way from her self-identification; indeed, every university who’s hired her in the course of her very distinguished academic career has indicated they weren’t even aware of it

Wrong. We don't have the Penn or Harvard applications and both schools listed her as a minority.

[Link: www.slate.com...]

Politico reports that according to a 1997 piece in the Fordham Law Review, the current candidate for senate in Massachusetts—who has Native American roots—was touted by the school as part of an effort to increase diversity among faculty. The piece reflects similar statements in an article in the Harvard Crimson from 1996 that describes the professor-turned-consumer advocate as a Native American. That has some suggesting that Warren’s hiring wasn’t all about merit.

296 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, May 19, 2012 6:09:44am

So, I just processed a return to Amazon for an $12.00 item. It came back and told me they were going to refund the full price (I should have paid for shipping--my fault for the return). AND told me to keep the item.

Can I assume it's not worth it to them to process a return on a $12.00 item?

Still I'd be paying the return shipping. I don't get it.

297 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, May 19, 2012 6:13:48am

How old was Elizabeth Warren when she claimed the Native American Status? I mean, some of those questions on Univ Applications can seem confusing and a young person of integrity may want to be as honest as possible-not understanding the political implications.

Does anyone but the GOP really care?

Are the Tribes upset over this?

298 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, May 19, 2012 6:16:11am

NO one is drinking the coffee?

/and I made it special!

299 RogueOne  Sat, May 19, 2012 6:18:08am

re: #289 Decatur Deb

It's team play. "The Santorum google bomb jokes were disgusting, rude, and totally beyond the bounds of fair play!" '"Fauxcahontas" is racist!"...

Personally I think they're both funny. People shouldn't let their political leanings cloud their judgement when it comes to a good joke. Good zingers aren't supposed to be "fair", they're supposed to be funny! I upding comments where I would disagree with the premise but they're still funny. Darthstar gets me all the time.

300 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, May 19, 2012 6:19:31am

re: #299 RogueOne

It's team play. "The Santorum google bomb jokes were disgusting, rude, and totally beyond the bounds of fair play!" '"Fauxcahontas" is racist!"...

Personally I think they're both funny. People shouldn't let their political leanings cloud their judgement when it comes to a good joke. Good zingers aren't supposed to be "fair", they're supposed to be funny! I upding comments where I would disagree with the premise but they're still funny. Darthstar gets me all the time.

I think if the person who is the object of the remark thinks it's funny, then all is well. Tough is that it is hard to do that correctly in a global communication setting.

301 Decatur Deb  Sat, May 19, 2012 6:22:57am

re: #300 ggt

I think if the person who is the object of the remark thinks it's funny, then all is well. Tough is that it is hard to do that correctly in a global communication setting.

"Buying" the joke is also a good tactical way to turn it around. See Prez on the birth cert. at last year's correspondent's dinner.

302 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, May 19, 2012 6:23:46am

re: #301 Decatur Deb

"Buying" the joke is also a good tactical way to turn it around. See Prez on the birth cert. at last year's correspondent's dinner.

EXACTLY --neutralize the propagada.

303 RogueOne  Sat, May 19, 2012 6:25:56am

re: #301 Decatur Deb

"Buying" the joke is also a good tactical way to turn it around. See Prez on the birth cert. at last year's correspondent's dinner.

Exactly the right tact to take. If Brown thinks he's going to convince people that she isn't qualified because she's not actually Indian....we'll that's, um, "developmentally challenged".

304 RogueOne  Sat, May 19, 2012 6:28:04am

re: #301 Decatur Deb

Which reminds me, Isn't that the tact Brown took in his race last time with the "beefcake" stuff?

305 Gus  Sat, May 19, 2012 6:29:27am

Heh. Figures.

306 Mocking Jay  Sat, May 19, 2012 6:30:33am

HOLY SHIT WE HAVE SOMEONE CLAIMING TO HAVE HAD A NATIVE AMERICAN INDIAN ANCESTOR OVER 100 YEARS AGO WE NEED DNA TESTS STAT!

This is fucking ridiculous. At least if birtherism were true it would mean the President was illegitimate. If these allegations are true it means... not a fucking thing.

307 Decatur Deb  Sat, May 19, 2012 6:31:38am

re: #304 RogueOne

Which reminds me, Isn't that the tact Brown took in his race last time with the "beefcake" stuff?

Don't remember specifics, but sounds right. The pick-up truck image was a big part of his campaign image, IIRC.

308 Gus  Sat, May 19, 2012 6:31:58am

re: #299 RogueOne

It's team play. "The Santorum google bomb jokes were disgusting, rude, and totally beyond the bounds of fair play!" '"Fauxcahontas" is racist!"...

Personally I think they're both funny. People shouldn't let their political leanings cloud their judgement when it comes to a good joke. Good zingers aren't supposed to be "fair", they're supposed to be funny! I upding comments where I would disagree with the premise but they're still funny. Darthstar gets me all the time.

Nice. Even includes a magical balance fairy.

309 Decatur Deb  Sat, May 19, 2012 6:33:20am

re: #308 Gus

Nice. Even includes a magical balance fairy.

MBF? I think the santorum attack was shittier.

310 Mocking Jay  Sat, May 19, 2012 6:33:38am

re: #309 Decatur Deb

MBF? I think the santorum attack was shittier.

giggles

311 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, May 19, 2012 6:33:47am

Once I was a lonely dog,
Just looking for a home.
I had no place to go,
No one to call my own.
I wandered up and down the streets,
in rain in heat and snow.
I ate whatever I could find,
I was always on the go.
My skin would itch, my feet were sore,
My body ached with pain.
And no one stopped to give a pat
Or to gently say my name.
I never saw a loving glance,
I was always on the run.
For people thought that hurting me
was really lots of fun.
And then one day I heard a voice
So gentle, kind and sweet,
And arms so soft reached down to me
And took me off my feet.
"No one again will hurt you"
Was whispered in my ear.
"You'll have a home to call your own
where you will know no fear."
"You will be dry, you will be warm,
you'll have enough to eat
And rest assured that when you sleep,
your dreams will all be sweet."
I was afraid I must admit,
I've lived so long in fear.
I can't remember when I let
A human come so near.
And as she tended to my wounds
And bathed and brushed my fur
She told me 'bout the rescue group
And what it meant to her.
She said, "We are a circle,
A line that never ends.
And in the center there is you
protected by new friends."
"And all around you are
the ones that check the pounds,
And those that share their home
after you've been found."
"And all the other folk
are searching near and far.
To find the perfect home for you,
where you can be a star."
She said, "There is a family,
that's waiting patiently,
and pretty soon we'll find them,
just you wait and see."
"And then they'll join our circle
they'll help to make it grow,
so there'll be room for more like you,
who have no place to go."
I waited very patiently,
The days they came and went.
Today's the day I thought,
my family will be sent.
Then just when I began to think
It wasn't meant to be,
there were people standing there
just gazing down at me.
I knew them in a heartbeat,
I could tell they felt it too.
They said, "We have been waiting
for a special dog like you."
Now every night I say a prayer
to all the gods that be.
"Thank you for the life I live
and all you've given me.
But most of all protect the dogs
in the pound and on the street.
And send a Rescue Person
to lift them off their feet."

312 Killgore Trout  Sat, May 19, 2012 6:36:22am

3 charged with terror conspiracy ahead of NATO

Chicago police Lt. Kenneth Stoppa said the men face a bond hearing later Saturday on charges of conspiracy to commit terrorism, possession of an explosive or incendiary device and providing material support. Stoppa identified the men being held as Brian Church, 20, of Ft. Lauderdale, Fla.; Jared Chase, 24, of Keene, N.H.; and Brent Vincent Betterly, 24.

313 Decatur Deb  Sat, May 19, 2012 6:36:48am

re: #311 ggt

Is today a nationwide rescue effort? Our town has "Bark in the Park" today.

(And I'm delinquent by one trip around the block.)

314 RogueOne  Sat, May 19, 2012 6:36:59am

re: #307 Decatur Deb

Mild refresher:
Republican Senate Candidate Scott Brown Posed Naked In Cosmo
[Link: www.mediaite.com...]

I had also forgotten it came up earlier this year:

Scott Brown, Elizabeth Warren Trade Barbs Over Senator's Beefcake Past
[Link: www.npr.org...]

At a recent debate of Democratic candidates, Elizabeth Warren, the Harvard University law professor and darling of liberals, was asked about a younger Sen. Scott Brown posing in the buff in Cosmopolitan magazine to help pay his college costs.

She said she "didn't take my clothes off" to pay for college.

On Thursday, Brown was asked about Warren's comment on WZLX, a Boston classic rock radio station.

"Thank God," he responded.

C'mon people, that's funny shit right there!

315 Gus  Sat, May 19, 2012 6:37:01am
316 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, May 19, 2012 6:37:17am

re: #313 Decatur Deb

Is today a nationwide rescue effort? Our town has "Bark in the Park" today.

(And I'm delinquent by one trip around the block.)

I don't know. That was on my fb.

317 RogueOne  Sat, May 19, 2012 6:40:23am

re: #308 Gus

I don't think it's MBF. People let their skin get to thin when it's their ox taking the goring. The Brown/Warren taking their clothes off for college money bit is the perfect example. Warren supporters thought her line was hilarious but Brown is obviously sexist for hitting back.

Women's groups dress down Scott Brown
[Link: www.politico.com...]

318 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, May 19, 2012 6:41:09am
319 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, May 19, 2012 6:42:04am

re: #317 RogueOne

I don't think it's MBF. People let their skin get to thin when it's their ox taking the goring. The Brown/Warren taking their clothes off for college money bit is the perfect example. Warren supporters thought her line was hilarious but Brown is obviously sexist for hitting back.

Women's groups dress down Scott Brown
[Link: www.politico.com...]

Can't take the heat?

320 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, May 19, 2012 6:44:01am

re: #313 Decatur Deb

Is today a nationwide rescue effort? Our town has "Bark in the Park" today.

(And I'm delinquent by one trip around the block.)

Thing is, there was a time when people did that for children.

It's a sign that our social programs might have been worth the money --no?

Now we have volunteers rescuing dogs, not children.

321 Decatur Deb  Sat, May 19, 2012 6:45:31am

re: #316 ggt

I don't know. That was on my fb.

Doofus is a rescue. Our last dog was a beautiful Sami from an "SOS" tent in Israel. They don't have permanent shelters in that town, more like a flea market where people find new owners for pets. When we brought the pup home, our neighbor said: "Ah! A Mitzvah Dog".

(Including the wear she put on government property and the lost computer, it cost about 2K to get the daughter's free puppy back to the States.)

Got to walk one now. BBL

322 RogueOne  Sat, May 19, 2012 6:47:48am

re: #321 Decatur Deb

Mine have all been rescues. Not to diss people who do buy from breeders but it doesn't make any sense to me to buy from a breeder when there are so many pure-bred dobes out there sitting in cages waiting for someone to take them home.

323 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, May 19, 2012 6:51:14am

re: #322 RogueOne

Mine have all been rescues. Not to diss people who do buy from breeders but it doesn't make any sense to me to buy from a breeder when there are so many pure-bred dobes out there sitting in cages waiting for someone to take them home.

Most of the people know who buy from breeders (like me) are active in their breed groups. It's become a circle of friends all concerned with the dogs and working the dogs and participating in shows and trials.

My Dad always bought a puppy from a breeder because he wanted to know "what I am getting". He wanted to meet the bitch and see the place where the puppies were whelped. With kids around, he was very concerned about not getting a dog with a genetic behavioral problem.

But nowadays, there are so many shelters and so many dogs and sooo many more ways to deal with behavioral issues that I'm not sure it's as much as an issue as it was 40 years ago.

324 sattv4u2  Sat, May 19, 2012 6:52:10am

re: #321 Decatur Deb

re: #322 RogueOne

Mine have all been rescues

Same here, save for one

We've also "fostered" about a dozen before someone took them to their "forever home"

325 RogueOne  Sat, May 19, 2012 6:54:04am

re: #323 ggt

With the wealth of health issues that follow the pure breeds around I can completely understand why people would choose to buy from a breeder especially if they're going to be entering competitions. I know I've been tempted. I'd love to import a pup from Germany just to see the difference first hand between their bloodlines and what's been going around the US for the last few decades.

326 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, May 19, 2012 7:03:25am

re: #325 RogueOne

With the wealth of health issues that follow the pure breeds around I can completely understand why people would choose to buy from a breeder especially if they're going to be entering competitions. I know I've been tempted. I'd love to import a pup from Germany just to see the difference first hand between their bloodlines and what's been going around the US for the last few decades.

One of my breeder's litters was fathered by an English Import --6 of the 10 pups has died of cancer by the time they were 8.

As our breed group's gene pool is more of a puddle, they are vigilant about breeding. This litter was a real disappointment. My breeder is heartbroken.

I had 2 from the litter, now I have only one :(

But, yes, usually even getting frozen sperm from overseas is a good thing. I men a GSD police dog that came directly from Germany. He was awesome.

For working dogs, it's important to keep the breeds strong. I think we'll see more and more done with shelter dogs to get them good work. Part of the reason so many dogs are in shelters is that they have a strong prey drive, which is what you want for a working dog, not so much for a pet.

I'd like to see every police department have a sniffer dog.

327 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, May 19, 2012 7:06:47am

One of my trainers has Dobes. She's been breeding and competing for over 20 years. Her dogs are awesome.

Don't know if I have what it takes to raise a Dobe. Smart with lots of puppy energy.

It's all I can do to live with Brat Puppy.

He now does Agility twice a week. Once at the training center and once with the Junior Handler at her house. I'm driving this dog around as much as I used to drive my kid around! LOL

Hubby's hunting dawg!

328 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, May 19, 2012 7:13:08am

Speaking of dogs.

Guess, What I have to do now?

329 darthstar  Sat, May 19, 2012 7:16:25am

Mornin' everyone...here's a good morning thought to chew on...

330 darthstar  Sat, May 19, 2012 7:20:29am

re: #327 ggt

He now does Agility twice a week. Once at the training center and once with the Junior Handler at her house. I'm driving this dog around as much as I used to drive my kid around! LOL

Hubby's hunting dawg!

I took Banjo to agility classes for a couple of years. He was good at it (cattle dog), but yeah, you do find yourself saying, 'Sorry, can't make it...my dog has his class that evening.'

Coolest member of his class was this Pug named Ginger. She had to have all the jumps set at 8", but when she ran through the tubes you could see her little feet high up the wall as she went around the curves.

331 Lidane  Sat, May 19, 2012 7:21:16am

What right wing racism?

Top Right-Wing Group: Minority Births Are ‘Not A Good Thing’ Because They ‘Don’t Share American Values’

Yesterday, the New York Times reported on new census data which showed, for the first time, that non-white births made up over 50 percent of all births in the United States last year.

It marked an important milestone, indicative of a changing United States that has long been considered the world’s melting pot. Or, if you’re the conservative, Phyllis Schlafly-backed Eagle Forum, it’s a clarion call that America is in grave danger of being overrun by uneducated, un-American brown people.

*sigh*

332 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, May 19, 2012 7:22:52am

re: #330 darthstar

I took Banjo to agility classes for a couple of years. He was good at it (cattle dog), but yeah, you do find yourself saying, 'Sorry, can't make it...my dog has his class that evening.'

Coolest member of his class was this Pug named Ginger. She had to have all the jumps set at 8", but when she ran through the tubes you could see her little feet high up the wall as she went around the curves.

They have so much fun!

333 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, May 19, 2012 7:23:15am

Now, I"m off to groom a dog.

coat has to be stripped --somehow they keep getting more and more hair.

Have a great day all!

334 RogueOne  Sat, May 19, 2012 7:23:21am

re: #327 ggt

One of my trainers has Dobes. She's been breeding and competing for over 20 years. Her dogs are awesome.

Don't know if I have what it takes to raise a Dobe. Smart with lots of puppy energy.
...

I'm hooked on the breed because they're so easy. They're a lot more sensitive than GSDs so you have to be pretty gentle but they're so smart and eager to please training is a piece of cake.

335 Talking Point Detective  Sat, May 19, 2012 7:23:38am

re: #294 RogueOne

I'll accept "lying" is probably the wrong term since (A.) I can't prove it and (B.) I think it's entirely possible she's going on what she was told.

Personally I think she embellished her background a bit. I said a week ago that the number of people who claim to be Indian is equivalent to the number of people who claim to have attended woodstock or former military folks who claim to be special forces. I don't think it's a big deal.

She would have been hired by both UoP and Harvard without the Indian background. She had a good track record and she hasn't done anything since then to show she wasn't 100% qualified and the same can be said of her as a potential senator. OTOH, I don't think we can say it played no role in her hiring since the University of Pennsylvania and Harvard both played up her Indian heritage. They were awfully quick to take advantage of her "minority" status.

I was there when Chamberlain scored 100 points.

336 Talking Point Detective  Sat, May 19, 2012 7:28:08am

re: #283 RogueOne

That would be like accusing people of being anti-Semitic for calling someone who did something stupid "Einstein".

I think that the reaction is a bit overwrought, but your analogy isn't accurate. Calling someone an "Einstein" for doing something stupid is not a specific reference to race, ethnicity, religion...

I'm not sure that it's "racist," but it borders on bigotry - and while I don't take deep offense, it does seem odd that you're pretty much trying to defend it.

337 darthstar  Sat, May 19, 2012 7:29:51am

re: #294 RogueOne

Warren never claimed her Indian heritage when applying for jobs. This has already been proven. She simply checked White/Caucasian on her applications. So it's not true that her heritage played a role.

338 ReamWorks SKG  Sat, May 19, 2012 7:32:17am

I've just discovered a truly fascinating blogger

[Link: 3dblogger.typepad.com...]

who shares my distaste for Rebecca MacKinnon

[Link: 3dblogger.typepad.com...]

and the Cult of TED.

339 darthstar  Sat, May 19, 2012 7:34:02am

re: #336 Talking Point Detective

"Fauxcahontas" is just word play, and while offensive to some, really is just word play. Now, if Rush picks up on the term and uses it 27 times on his radio program, then it moves from word-play to word-play as an excuse to be a bigoted asshole.

Context and intent are key.

340 RogueOne  Sat, May 19, 2012 7:45:38am

re: #336 Talking Point Detective

Calling someone an "Einstein" for doing something stupid is not a specific reference to race, ethnicity, religion...

That's a good point. The Pocahontas reference is in response to a specific ethnicity claimed by Warren.

I'm not sure that it's "racist," but it borders on bigotry - and while I don't take deep offense, it does seem odd that you're pretty much trying to defend it.

Because it's making fun of Warren for claiming to be a "person of color" not Pocahontas. It's sarcasm not racism. My initial comment about being offended with the comparisons to aunt Jemima was faux-outrage although I haven't asked my wife what she would think of her grandfather being compared to Uncle Tom.

341 Gus  Sat, May 19, 2012 7:47:13am

Keep trying to blow-off "Fauxcahontas" as some kind of word play or harmless epitaph. It's not going to work.

342 Lidane  Sat, May 19, 2012 7:52:26am

WTF?

Kansas Teacher Writes On Facebook That Being Gay Is 'The Same As Murder'

Jack Conkling, a Prairie Hills Middle School social studies teacher and Buhler High School assistant women's basketball coach in Buhler, Kan., is under fire after equating being gay to being a murderer on his Facebook profile, the Hutchinson News reports.

In his post, Conkling comments on gay marriage, writing that homosexuality "ranks in God's eyes the same as murder, lying, stealing, or cheating."

According to the paper, several of his students who were also his Facebook friends left comments on the post, something that led the school to eventually take notice.

"I wrote what I wrote for my Facebook friends who understand my heart and my intent," Conkling told the Hutchinson News. "I understand that there were some folks who didn't understand my heart, and while that's sad, it is what it is."

343 Gus  Sat, May 19, 2012 7:54:07am

Going to meet with my American Indian friend tomorrow and discuss this with him. I'll take his word for it as opposed to those without any knowledge of the American Indian community who base their conclusions on anecdotal evidence. Off the cuff he already told me that Pocahontas is used in a derogatory fashion to describe American Indian women.

344 jaunte  Sat, May 19, 2012 7:54:17am

re: #341 Gus

It's all about stirring up conservative resentment about affirmative action.

345 darthstar  Sat, May 19, 2012 7:56:21am

re: #341 Gus

Keep trying to blow-off "Fauxcahontas" as some kind of word play or harmless epitaph. It's not going to work.

Nobody's about to claim that the wingnuts throwing the term at Warren aren't bigoted assholes - hell, they called her far worse than that just because she exists. But the average person who reads the term will give it a half-giggle, say to themselves, 'Ooh, that's wrong,' and move on.

The only people who will wear the term out because they're unaware of how others perceive them(or just don't care) are the Bill O'Reilly/Erick Erickson/Glenn Beck/Rush Limbaugh type douche bags. Fuck them. They piss me off when they convert oxygen to carbon dioxide.

346 Kronocide  Sat, May 19, 2012 7:56:25am

re: #342 Lidane

More anti-Christian bias. Their rights to say really screwed up crap about gays are being infringed upon.

347 Gus  Sat, May 19, 2012 7:56:35am

re: #344 jaunte

It's all about stirring up conservative resentment about affirmative action.

Which the Scott Brown surrogates manufactured. They're making points that Elizabeth Warren never made.

348 sattv4u2  Sat, May 19, 2012 7:58:00am

re: #343 Gus

Pocahontas is used in a derogatory fashion to describe American Indian women.

Really? Pocahontas has always been characterized as a brave, beautiful and courageous figure

349 jaunte  Sat, May 19, 2012 7:58:36am

re: #347 Gus

Howie Carr bent it into an anti-Obama attack:

The race card — like so many others, Barack Obama never leaves home without it. And a couple of weeks ago, he was reading off the Teleprompter that he (unlike, presumably, Mitt Romney) wasn’t “born with a silver spoon in his mouth.”

Excuse me? What would you call a free pass to Columbia and then Harvard Law? For a guy who thinks there are 57 states and that they speak “Austrian” in Austria? Who pronounces corpsman “corpseman”? Who became editor of the Harvard Law Review without ever having written a single article for the publication?

Who can forget Elizabeth Warren’s “rise from poverty.” That hasn’t been mentioned much since we found out that by 1965, her family had three cars, one of which was Granny’s white MG, a car that was, the Globe sadly informed us, “beat up.”

And you say Pocahontas Warren hasn’t got a right to sing the blues?

350 darthstar  Sat, May 19, 2012 8:01:45am

I always thought it was a verb...like cowpoke.
/

351 sattv4u2  Sat, May 19, 2012 8:03:38am

re: #350 darthstar

I always thought it was a verb...like cowpoke.
/

Is that what you kids are calling it nowadays?

352 Kronocide  Sat, May 19, 2012 8:04:18am

Twitter #Fauxcahontas

353 gwangung  Sat, May 19, 2012 8:06:31am

re: #348 sattv4u2

Pocahontas is used in a derogatory fashion to describe American Indian women.

Really? Pocahontas has always been characterized as a brave, beautiful and courageous figure

Yes, really. Like Charlie Chan has been used derrogitorily against Asians.

Generally, the objects of racist taunts know damn well if it's racist or not.

354 Kronocide  Sat, May 19, 2012 8:08:59am

re: #348 sattv4u2

Pocahontas is used in a derogatory fashion to describe American Indian women.

Really? Pocahontas has always been characterized as a brave, beautiful and courageous figure

Next black dude you see, walk up to him and say 'Yo, Martin Luther!'

See how that goes.

355 darthstar  Sat, May 19, 2012 8:12:26am

re: #352 Kronocide

Twitter #Fauxcahontas

So a term like this can be used to gather like-minded people together in a single place? Cool...now if only I had one of those flashy pens from the Men in Black movies...

I'm tempted to create a new twitter account and write an automated script to reply to each person on that page with a simple tweet. "@theirname Loved your racist tweet! Sharing it with everyone on your facebook profile." Wouldn't take long...but it would be a little mean...I'm sure they're all just nice people having a little fun.

356 RogueOne  Sat, May 19, 2012 8:12:28am

re: #353 gwangung

Pocahontas is not a caricature and Warren isn't Native American.

357 sattv4u2  Sat, May 19, 2012 8:12:56am

re: #354 Kronocide

Next black dude you see, walk up to him and say 'Yo, Martin Luther!'

See how that goes.

It wouldn't be comparable

It WOULD be comparable if we were talking about a white "dude" who was claiming black ancestry on applications and I were to call HIM that

358 Talking Point Detective  Sat, May 19, 2012 8:12:59am

re: #354 Kronocide

Next black dude you see, walk up to him and say 'Yo, Martin Luther!'

See how that goes.

I've seen rightwingers claim that calling someone Stepin Fetchit isn't racist because that character often played white people for fools.

Seriously.

359 RogueOne  Sat, May 19, 2012 8:14:02am

re: #354 Kronocide

If she were actually native american you would have a point but, contrary to her assertion, she's not that's why it's sarcasm.

360 jaunte  Sat, May 19, 2012 8:14:46am

I haven't seen any real proof that Warren improperly advanced her career through affirmative action programs, which seems to be the only substantive complaint in all the smearing.

361 RogueOne  Sat, May 19, 2012 8:16:36am

My wife came home last night so we have a full day of plans consisting of just hanging out together. See you cowpokes later.

362 darthstar  Sat, May 19, 2012 8:17:00am

re: #360 jaunte

I haven't seen any real proof that Warren advanced her career through affirmative action programs, which seems to be the only substantive complaint in all the smearing.

That's because she didn't advance because of affirmative action.

363 Talking Point Detective  Sat, May 19, 2012 8:17:52am

re: #340 RogueOne

That's a good point. The Pocahontas reference is in response to a specific ethnicity claimed by Warren.

Because it's making fun of Warren for claiming to be a "person of color" not Pocahontas. It's sarcasm not racism. My initial comment about being offended with the comparisons to aunt Jemima was faux-outrage although I haven't asked my wife what she would think of her grandfather being compared to Uncle Tom.

I don't think that the distinction you're making between the sarcasm and the bigotry is that clean.

Regardless, it's juvenile. That's why I don't really think it's something to be excused as "sarcasm." I don't take offense, I think it's stupid.

If there's some kind of legitimate issue here - I suppose something that people are saying is representative of her Warren's character? - make the case.

364 jaunte  Sat, May 19, 2012 8:18:21am
365 sattv4u2  Sat, May 19, 2012 8:18:25am

re: #360 jaunte

I haven't seen any real proof that Warren advanced her career through affirmative action programs, which seems to be the only substantive complaint in all the smearing.

What about it being an insight into her character? I mean, whether her career was advanced or not by it, why even put it on an application/ resume/ claim?

366 sattv4u2  Sat, May 19, 2012 8:19:02am

re: #363 Talking Point Detective

something that people are saying is representative of her Warren's character? - make the case.

Not making the case, but asking the question in 365

367 jaunte  Sat, May 19, 2012 8:19:41am

re: #365 sattv4u2

That's my question; did she actually put it on an application or resume to gain some advantage, or was it just something one of her relatives told her which she accepted as part of the family lore?

368 Obdicut  Sat, May 19, 2012 8:20:16am

re: #365 sattv4u2

What about it being an insight into her character? I mean, whether her career was advanced or not by it, why even put it on an application/ resume/ claim?

She didn't put it on an application or a resume.

369 Kronocide  Sat, May 19, 2012 8:21:02am

re: #359 RogueOne

If she were actually native american you would have a point but, contrary to her assertion, she's not that's why it's sarcasm.

That has nothing at all to do with it. The point was

Pocahontas is used in a derogatory fashion to describe American Indian women.

Really? Pocahontas has always been characterized as a brave, beautiful and courageous figure

AI women being called Pocahontas isn't meant to be a compliment. Calling a black dude 'Martin Luther' wouldn't be either. This has nothing to do with Warren, Cherokee or not.

Darth's point about word play is taken but mocking Warren by calling her Fauxcahontas is playing with xenophobic fire.

370 darthstar  Sat, May 19, 2012 8:21:05am

re: #365 sattv4u2

What about it being an insight into her character? I mean, whether her career was advanced or not by it, why even put it on an application/ resume/ claim?

She never put it on an application. She mentioned it in her book...once. I don't think HR people go through peoples' books looking for hidden references to a multicultural heritage.

371 jaunte  Sat, May 19, 2012 8:21:23am

re: #368 Obdicut

If she had, I'm sure that would have been trumpeted by Howie Carr.

372 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, May 19, 2012 8:22:07am

It's great how lying always gives you an advantage, because disproving the lie takes time and often involves details that most people do not pay attention to or care about.

373 darthstar  Sat, May 19, 2012 8:22:19am

re: #369 Kronocide

I just said it was word play...didn't say it wasn't wrong. :)

374 Obdicut  Sat, May 19, 2012 8:22:37am

re: #348 sattv4u2

Pocahontas is used in a derogatory fashion to describe American Indian women.

Really? Pocahontas has always been characterized as a brave, beautiful and courageous figure

Yes, really.

375 sattv4u2  Sat, May 19, 2012 8:22:47am

re: #368 Obdicut

re: #370 darthstar

thanks

376 jaunte  Sat, May 19, 2012 8:22:56am

re: #369 Kronocide

It doesn't end with Fauxcahontas:

"Still, all’s well that ends well. She has her $1.7 million wigwam in Cambridge. Greedy Wall Street lawyers slurp top-shelf firewater at her $1,000-a-head Manhattan fundraisers. Maybe someday she’ll even smokum peace pipe with Tim Geithner."[Link: www.bostonherald.com...]

How many Indian stereotypes can you cram into one column?

377 darthstar  Sat, May 19, 2012 8:24:15am

re: #372 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)

It's great how lying always gives you an advantage, because disproving the lie takes time and often involves details that most people do not pay attention to or care about.

"Falsehood flies and the truth comes limping after."
--Jonathan Swift

378 Obdicut  Sat, May 19, 2012 8:24:33am

re: #294 RogueOne

In what way did the universities 'take advantage' of her minority status?

379 Kronocide  Sat, May 19, 2012 8:24:40am

re: #373 darthstar

I just said it was word play...didn't say it wasn't wrong. :)

I know, I get your meaning and intent.

But I also get Steyn's meaning and intent, as well as all the other RW bloggers running with this. World's of difference.

380 Kronocide  Sat, May 19, 2012 8:27:02am

re: #357 sattv4u2

It wouldn't be comparable

It WOULD be comparable if we were talking about a white "dude" who was claiming black ancestry on applications and I were to call HIM that

It's irrelevant to Warren.

So go up to an American Indian woman and say 'How! Pocahontas.'

381 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, May 19, 2012 8:27:11am

re: #378 Obdicut

The answer probably involves metrosexuality.

382 darthstar  Sat, May 19, 2012 8:28:43am

re: #377 darthstar

"Falsehood flies and the truth comes limping after."
--Jonathan Swift

In context, it's still applicable 302 years after he wrote it.

Some people may think, that such an accomplishment as this can be of no great use to the owner, or his party, after it has been often practised, and is become notorious; but they are widely mistaken. Few lies carry the inventor's mark, and the most prostitute enemy to truth may spread a thousand, without being known for the author: besides, as the vilest writer hath his readers, so the greatest liar hath his believers: and it often happens, that if a lie be believed only for an hour, it hath done its work, and there is no farther occasion for it. Falsehood flies, and truth comes limping after it, so that when men come to be undeceived, it is too late; the jest is over, and the tale hath had its effect: like a man, who hath thought of a good repartee when the discourse is changed, or the company parted; or like a physician, who hath found out an infallible medicine, after the patient is dead.

Welcome to the Mitt Romney campaign strategy 2012.

383 darthstar  Sat, May 19, 2012 8:29:37am

For those interested in reading something Swift wrote other than Gulliver's Travels or A Modest Proposal.

[Link: www.ourcivilisation.com...]

384 sattv4u2  Sat, May 19, 2012 8:30:14am

re: #380 Kronocide

It's irrelevant to Warren.

So go up to an American Indian woman and say 'How! Pocahontas.'

But why would I. She's not pretending to be something she's not

385 Kronocide  Sat, May 19, 2012 8:30:23am

re: #376 jaunte

It doesn't end with Fauxcahontas:

How many Indian stereotypes can you cram into one column?

That was the point. For the (alleged crime) of possibly utilizing affirmative action, being a partial minority, being Democrat, and having the temerity to say the 'Pay It Forward' speech, it gave free license to go on a stereotype bender. Political correctness has taken all the fun out of criticizing people, give the poor bigot a break.

386 Talking Point Detective  Sat, May 19, 2012 8:31:23am

re: #376 jaunte

It doesn't end with Fauxcahontas:

How many Indian stereotypes can you cram into one column?

Wow! I used to live in Boston - and Carr was always an asshole; but I haven't read him in years and he's actually gotten a lot worse. Extremism sells well among rightwingers these days.

387 Kronocide  Sat, May 19, 2012 8:33:52am

re: #384 sattv4u2

But why would I. She's not pretending to be something she's not

So that means it's OK to mock people with racist or xenophobic stereotypes if the target has committed a lie, or fraud, related to race or ethnic heritage?

388 Gus  Sat, May 19, 2012 8:35:11am

re: #376 jaunte

It doesn't end with Fauxcahontas:

How many Indian stereotypes can you cram into one column?

There we have the context. A bigoted author who laces his opinions with every other American Indian stereotype imaginable. I'm surprised he didn't say "drunk Injun." Now there are also sexist and cultural or ethnic chauvinism elements to the concept of Pocahontas as the Western ideal of female American Indian beauty.

389 Talking Point Detective  Sat, May 19, 2012 8:37:16am

re: #384 sattv4u2

But why would I. She's not pretending to be something she's not

So you said that you weren't making the case, but now you're suggesting that Warren is "pretending to be something she's not," - which suggests that you're saying that this situation tells us something about Warren's character; that she's a fraud who is more than willing to unethically and fraudulently exploit affirmative action.

Is that your belief?

390 sattv4u2  Sat, May 19, 2012 8:38:11am

re: #387 Kronocide

So that means it's OK to mock people with racist or xenophobic stereotypes if the target has committed a lie, or fraud, related to race or ethnic heritage?

Pocahontas (as a "stereotype") has been of a brave, beautiful and courageous figure as I stated above

I read FAUXcahontas as someone phonily trying to portray oneself as that

Tell you what. Lets let an actual female Cherokee weigh in

[Link: www.pollysgranddaughter.com...]

391 bratwurst  Sat, May 19, 2012 8:38:13am

Let's go ahead and say that it is debatable whether there is an element of racism in this current outrage. What is not debatable is that we frequently hear folks on the right bemoan the fact that they are painted as being racist unfairly. This being the case, wouldn't you endeavor to avoid even the APPEARANCE of racism? Serious question.

392 Gus  Sat, May 19, 2012 8:40:07am

The Pocahontas Paradox: A Cautionary Tale for Educators

Cornel Pewewardy, Ph.D.
School of Education
University of Kansas
From Journal of Navajo Education, Fall/Winter 1996/97.

For many teachers, identifying instructional materials and media films that are culturally responsive to different children and the cultures that they represent is their greatest challenge, in large part because contemporary film and print media continue to promulgate racist, sexist representations of non-majority social groups, with devastating effects on young non-mainstream learners. This is especially true of American Indians. Negative and self-serving stereotypes of the American Indian held by non-Indians are deeply embedded in American life. Most children in America do not conceive of American Indians as real people, and have few or no contacts with authentic "Indians." In this article Cornel Pewewardy, a Comanche-Kiowa, analyzes the ongoing misrepresentation of American Indians in mainstream media His centerpiece example is the movie Pocahontas, released in 1995 by the Disney Corporation.

Continues.

Excerpt:

Celluloid Indians - ...Screen images today are descended from such influences as the captivity narratives of the eighteenth century and the romance novels of James Fenimore Cooper. The modern version of a "real" Indian princess in Pocahontas: Friend of the White Man is entirely a product of Western colonialism and is paradoxical. Doniger (see Levi-Strauss, 1978) writes in the 1995 forward of Myth and Meaning that Levi-Strauss touches upon all the great methodological paradoxes: the parallel tensions between myth and science, myth and history, myth and music, and "primitive" and "civilized." Levi-Strauss insisted that a myth could be translated only by another myth never by a scientific formula. He posited that every myth is driven by the obsessive need to solve a paradox that cannot be solved. This is the situation of the "Pocahontas Paradox."

393 jaunte  Sat, May 19, 2012 8:40:41am

re: #391 bratwurst

we frequently hear folks on the right bemoan the fact that they are painted as being racist unfairly.

While at the same time complaining that their free speech is being stifled by political correctness.

394 Talking Point Detective  Sat, May 19, 2012 8:41:11am

re: #390 sattv4u2

Pocahontas (as a "stereotype") has been of a brave, beautiful and courageous figure as I stated above

I read FAUXcahontas as someone phonily trying to portray oneself as that

Tell you what. Lets let an actual female Cherokee weigh in

[Link: www.pollysgranddaughter.com...]

What is the significance that you attach to that article?

395 Kronocide  Sat, May 19, 2012 8:41:36am

#ElizabethWarrenIndianNames

All that stuff is cool because she lied, right Satt?

At this point I don't know if she lied or not. Let's assume she did. Instead of mocking her with Indian names, discussion could focus around 'she lied about her heritage.' Not 'Ha ha, Yellow Dog.'

This isn't meant to be funny. It's meant to antagonize and ridicule under the guise of humor. Leave the humor to the professionals, who know how to walk all over and sometimes tiptoe over the line of stereotypes to make us laugh.

I wonder what American Indians think of all this. I don't know, I'm a white mutt. I don't have any understanding of being mocked for my race or beliefs.

396 sattv4u2  Sat, May 19, 2012 8:42:19am

re: #389 Talking Point Detective

I don't know what Warrens motives were.
but now you're suggesting that Warren is "pretending to be something she's not,"

What would you call stating what she said?

this situation tells us something about Warren's character

If I were to tell you about a terrible battle I was in in Vietnam, meanwhile the truth was that I never left Tokyo during the war, wouldn't that tell us something about my character?

397 Gus  Sat, May 19, 2012 8:44:02am

re: #395 Kronocide

#ElizabethWarrenIndianNames

All that stuff is cool because she lied, right Satt?

At this point I don't know if she lied or not. Let's assume she did. Instead of mocking her with Indian names, discussion could focus around 'she lied about her heritage.' Not 'Ha ha, Yellow Dog.'

This isn't meant to be funny. It's meant to antagonize and ridicule under the guise of humor. Leave the humor to the professionals, who know how to walk all over and sometimes tiptoe over the line of stereotypes to make us laugh.

I wonder what American Indians think of all this. I don't know, I'm a white mutt. I don't have any understanding of being mocked for my race or beliefs.

Oh look. One of the banned is even on there. Figures.

398 sattv4u2  Sat, May 19, 2012 8:44:46am

re: #394 Talking Point Detective

What is the significance that you attach to that article?

Above someone stated that they were going to ask their "native American friend" what they thought about this whole flap

SO ,,I found out what a Native American did

Yes,,, just one ,,, but it would be interesting to conduct a poll if Native Americans to see if they were more offended by the word FAUXcahontas or that someone claimed to be Indian when she was not

399 Lidane  Sat, May 19, 2012 8:45:16am

re: #348 sattv4u2

Really? Pocahontas has always been characterized as a brave, beautiful and courageous figure

She's also been used as a stereotype about Native Americans. Pocahontas has been used as the stereotypical "Indian Princess" who is maidenly, demure, and deeply committed to a white man that saves her from her "savage" life.

400 Talking Point Detective  Sat, May 19, 2012 8:46:25am

re: #396 sattv4u2

What would you call stating what she said?

What, specific statement of hers are you referring to?


If I were to tell you about a terrible battle I was in in Vietnam, meanwhile the truth was that I never left Tokyo during the war, wouldn't that tell us something about my character?

Again, it seems that you're referring to a specific statement on Warren's part. Which statement are you referring to.

But I asked you a question as to whether something here justifies conclusions about her character. You said that you weren't making the case, and then, twice, went on to imply that this tells you something about her character.

You seem to be jumping about.

I'll ask again. Do you think that this is instructive about Warren's character?

401 Gus  Sat, May 19, 2012 8:47:53am

Gets even worse here on Twitter: Results for squaw warren

402 Talking Point Detective  Sat, May 19, 2012 8:47:53am

re: #398 sattv4u2

Above someone stated that they were going to ask their "native American friend" what they thought about this whole flap

SO ,,I found out what a Native American did

Yes,,, just one ,,, but it would be interesting to conduct a poll if Native Americans to see if they were more offended by the word FAUXcahontas or that someone claimed to be Indian when she was not

Actually - he said that he was going to ask about the term FAUXchahontas.

There was no mention of FAUXchahontas in that article.

That article is clearly written by a NI who has political animosity towards Warren. It really says nothing germane to the debate we're having here.

403 Kronocide  Sat, May 19, 2012 8:48:17am

re: #390 sattv4u2

Pocahontas (as a "stereotype") has been of a brave, beautiful and courageous figure as I stated above

I read FAUXcahontas as someone phonily trying to portray oneself as that

Tell you what. Lets let an actual female Cherokee weigh in

[Link: www.pollysgranddaughter.com...]

How does that blog post relate to this discussion? It's very clear that you think it's OK to mock somebody with racial stereotypes. Your distinction is the guilt of lying about ancestry.

404 Gus  Sat, May 19, 2012 8:48:28am

re: #399 Lidane

She's also been used as a stereotype about Native Americans. Pocahontas has been used as the stereotypical "Indian Princess" who is maidenly, demure, and deeply committed to a white man that saves her from her "savage" life.

Yep. See my #388.

405 sattv4u2  Sat, May 19, 2012 8:48:34am

re: #400 Talking Point Detective

I'll ask again. Do you think that this is instructive about Warren's character?

And I stated, I don't know. Thats why I asked

I also stated "I don't know what Warrens motives were."

If we knew that we would have a lot of answers

406 jaunte  Sat, May 19, 2012 8:49:11am
407 HappyWarrior  Sat, May 19, 2012 8:50:28am

re: #406 jaunte

Scott Brown's motives:
Scott Brown raising money off Elizabeth Warren Native American questions

I thought Brown was better than that crap. Lame move.

408 Talking Point Detective  Sat, May 19, 2012 8:53:36am

re: #405 sattv4u2

I'll ask again. Do you think that this is instructive about Warren's character?

And I stated, I don't know. Thats why I asked

I also stated "I don't know what Warrens motives were."

If we knew that we would have a lot of answers

You seem to be jumping about. Upthread, you distinguished her situation from another by saying that other situation didn't involve someone making false claims. You've gone on to compare it to a situation where someone developed elaborate lies and asked rhetorically whether such a situation would be instructive about the liars character.

Seems to me that you're making it clear that you think it is instructive about her character, but for some reason won't just be up front about that. That makes it kind of hard to proceed in the discussion.

409 Talking Point Detective  Sat, May 19, 2012 8:55:05am

re: #405 sattv4u2

I'll ask again. Do you think that this is instructive about Warren's character?

And I stated, I don't know. Thats why I asked

I also stated "I don't know what Warrens motives were."

If we knew that we would have a lot of answers

So in other words, if that person lying about being in Vietnam had noble motives, such as getting elected to office, his/her lying wouldn't be instructive about his/her character?

410 sattv4u2  Sat, May 19, 2012 8:56:33am

re: #408 Talking Point Detective

Seems to me that you're making it clear that you think it is instructive about her character
I asked IF it speaks to her character, then gave an example of how it would

And again, until her motives are known there's no telling if it does speak to her character (and there's probably no way to ever definitively find out what, if any, her motive was)

Sorry, but I can't be any clearer that that

411 Gus  Sat, May 19, 2012 8:57:34am
412 bratwurst  Sat, May 19, 2012 8:58:31am

re: #411 Gus

Google pocahontas site:stormfront.org

Hey, who wouldn't want to be associated with that? /////////

413 Gus  Sat, May 19, 2012 8:59:03am

re: #412 bratwurst

Hey, who wouldn't want to be associated with that? ///

It's just harmless wordplay!

//

414 Talking Point Detective  Sat, May 19, 2012 8:59:37am

re: #410 sattv4u2

I asked IF it speaks to her character, then gave an example of how it would

Your example had no mention of what you claimed to be the distinguishing criterion - motives

415 sattv4u2  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:00:06am

re: #409 Talking Point Detective

So in other words, if that person lying about being in Vietnam had noble motives, such as getting elected to office, his/her lying wouldn't be instructive about his/her character?

I don't see how lying about service in war TO get elected can ever be "noble"

416 ProGunLiberal  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:02:06am

re: #414 Talking Point Detective

We all know that Satt approves of the slurs.

They are being used against a Democrat after all. This is why I feel justified in any attack I do against conservatives.

417 Talking Point Detective  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:03:29am

re: #410 sattv4u2

Seems to me that you're making it clear that you think it is instructive about her character
I asked IF it speaks to her character, then gave an example of how it would

And again, until her motives are known there's no telling if it does speak to her character (and there's probably no way to ever definitively find out what, if any, her motive was)

Sorry, but I can't be any clearer that that

You compared her situation, twice, to someone lying - suggesting that those situations that would be instructive about someone's character, without mention of what you claim to be the operative criterion in Warren's situation - and then say that you can't formulate conclusions about her case unless you know motive.

I'm not saying that your argument is bogus, but if someone, repeatedly, made inconsistent claims about the pivotal criterion they used to differentiate the judgement about one person compared to another, would that suggest to you that they might be putting forth a bogus argument?

418 sattv4u2  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:03:35am

re: #416 ProGunLiberal

We all know that Satt approves of the slurs.

Huh?? Example please!

419 Lidane  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:04:42am

VIDEO: McCain Says President Obama Will Remain On Arizona Ballot Despite Birther Threats

Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) said late Friday that President Obama will remain on Arizona’s ballot despite conspiracy theory-fueled threats from the state’s top election official.

“The president of the United States is not going to be taken off the ballot,” McCain told Phoenix television station KPNX.

Having faced Obama in the 2008 presidential race, McCain was responding to comments made earlier in the week by Arizona Secretary of State Ken Bennett, who threatened to keep the president off the November ballot unless he receives more proof Obama was born in the United States. Bennett said the Hawaii birth certificate Obama released last year was not proof enough.

420 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:05:33am

Never, never, ever, do work for the condo you live in. Even if you keep a scrupulous and to the penny accounting of everything you did and what you spent for parts people will still question it.

At that point it is more about the building politics and who is aligned with whom than an actual complaint that requires facts to back it up. They bitch because the "wrong" person (not part of their faction) authorized the work, not because they actually believe anything was done wrong or that money was misdirected. At this point I'm starting to feel like Obama in that nothing I do can possibly be right simply because I was the one who did it.

Arrghhh!

/quits bitching and goes back to writing up a 14-15 page work report about the sprinkler/zone valve/well pump repairs and improvements.

421 Talking Point Detective  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:06:24am

re: #415 sattv4u2

I don't see how lying about service in war TO get elected can ever be "noble"

No matter the "motive?"

So in that case, lying is instructive enough to determine character no matter the motive.

But you say that Warren is lying, and then say that you don't know if the lie is instructive unless you know her motive?

Do you see a problem there?

422 sattv4u2  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:07:00am

re: #417 Talking Point Detective

You compared her situation, twice, to someone lying

Is there another word for claiming you're something you're not?

then say that you can't formulate conclusions about her case unless you know motive.

No, I can't formulate much about her character until her motives are known

Terrible Example,, , but one non the less

Guy has a gun to my sons head. Says he'll shoot unless I tell the guy that my son is really his.

I Lie
My motive was clear
My character stays intact

423 HappyWarrior  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:07:09am

re: #419 Lidane

VIDEO: McCain Says President Obama Will Remain On Arizona Ballot Despite Birther Threats

Glad to see McCain calling this nonsense for what it is. Bennett is just an opportunistic jackass looking to earn his bonafidies with the idiots in the Republican base in that state.

424 sattv4u2  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:09:07am

re: #416 ProGunLiberal

re: #418 sattv4u2


We all know that Satt approves of the slurs.

Huh?? Example please!

I'm still waiting

425 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:09:58am

re: #422 sattv4u2


You compared her situation, twice, to someone lying

Is there another word for claiming you're something you're not?

Um. Unknowingly? Yes. Being mistaken.

Duh?

426 Talking Point Detective  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:10:00am

re: #422 sattv4u2


You compared her situation, twice, to someone lying

Is there another word for claiming you're something you're not?

then say that you can't formulate conclusions about her case unless you know motive.

No, I can't formulate much about her character until her motives are known

Terrible Example,, , but one non the less

Guy has a gun to my sons head. Says he'll shoot unless I tell the guy that my son is really his.

I Lie
My motive was clear
My character stays intact

Just to recap.

You say she's lying, and then go on to say that you won't judge her for lying unless you know her motive, and also say that in other situations where someone lied, motive is irrelevant to formulating a judgement.

You, repeatedly, completely ignore the argument I make to just repeat the argument you're making without dealing with my point.

OK. I give up.

427 Kronocide  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:10:40am

re: #424 sattv4u2

re: #418 sattv4u2

I'm still waiting

The last 40 or so posts in this thread where you are defending the use of "Fauxcahontas" against Warren. She lied, she deserves it.

428 sattv4u2  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:11:19am

re: #425 May Day! May Day!

Um. Uknowingly? Yes. Being mistaken.

Duh?

She unknowingly stated that she has American Indian ancestry?

429 Kronocide  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:11:44am

re: #426 Talking Point Detective

OK. I give up.

Ha ha, you've been Sattified.

430 ProGunLiberal  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:11:45am

re: #418 sattv4u2

You don't seem to be condemning the slurs, and making excuses for those using them, at least from my reading. Of course, I assume malice first whenever the other side says something, so there is that.

I see someone who was told by her parents a family history that was wrong. It happens.

431 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:12:50am

re: #428 sattv4u2

She unknowingly stated that she has American Indian ancestry?

If she has no NA roots but was led to believe so by family lore, then obviously yes. Do you have anything to refute that?

432 Talking Point Detective  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:13:21am

re: #429 Kronocide

Ha ha, you've been Sattified.

It would be interesting to go through life with no need, whatsoever, to be logically consistent when presenting arguments.

433 ProGunLiberal  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:14:02am

re: #424 sattv4u2

And I have terrible connection that seizes up.

434 sattv4u2  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:14:25am

re: #430 ProGunLiberal

You don't seem to be condemning the slurs

But thats not what you stated about me

You said I APPROVE slurs

435 Lidane  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:14:47am

re: #428 sattv4u2

She unknowingly stated that she has American Indian ancestry?

Lots of people get told stuff about their backgrounds. Think about the people who get told that their relative was a famous military figure or had some key role in an event.

The question is, did she ever use what she'd been told about Native American ancestry to her advantage? Did she ever use it on job applications, or scholarship forms, or to self-identify as Native to qualify for some sort of affirmative action program? If the answer is no, then this is a non-issue. It's no different than a redneck in Georgia being told that his ancestors played a pivotal role in the Civil War.

436 sattv4u2  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:16:19am

re: #435 Lidane

Lots of people get told stuff about their backgrounds. Think about the people who get told that their relative was a famous military figure or had some key role in an event.

The question is, did she ever use what she'd been told about Native American ancestry to her advantage? Did she ever use it on job applications, or scholarship forms, or to self-identify as Native to qualify for some sort of affirmative action program? If the answer is no, then this is a non-issue. It's no different than a redneck in Georgia being told that his ancestors played a pivotal role in the Civil War.

well stated

437 HappyWarrior  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:16:19am

re: #431 May Day! May Day!

If she has no NA roots but was led to believe so by family lore, then obviously yes. Do you have anything to refute that?

I think that's very possible. She's from Oklahoma originally, yes? Easy to see how that lore can happen and her to say it.

438 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:17:34am

re: #435 Lidane

Lots of people get told stuff about their backgrounds. Think about the people who get told that their relative was a famous military figure or had some key role in an event.

The question is, did she ever use what she'd been told about Native American ancestry to her advantage? Did she ever use it on job applications, or scholarship forms, or to self-identify as Native to qualify for some sort of affirmative action program? If the answer is no, then this is a non-issue. It's no different than a redneck in Georgia being told that his ancestors played a pivotal role in the Civil War.

The answer to that question is yes, that is how this whole thing blew up.

439 sattv4u2  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:17:40am

re: #431 May Day! May Day!

If she has no NA roots but was led to believe so by family lore, then obviously yes. Do you have anything to refute that?

I have no idea where she picked up the "lore"

440 ProGunLiberal  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:17:52am

re: #434 sattv4u2

Tacit approval. The "I agree with you, and won't speak against it" concept.

And then you attack those who say that say she could have been honestly mistaken. I'm sure more than a few of us on here had misconceptions on our ancestry passed down from our parents. My dad's concept of where his side came from was wrong by about 1/2 the Netherlands.

441 sattv4u2  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:18:56am

re: #433 ProGunLiberal

re: #434 sattv4u2

You don't seem to be condemning the slurs

But thats not what you stated about me

You said I APPROVE slurs

Slow connection or not ,, i'm still waiting for you to show me where I "approve" (your word) slurs

442 sattv4u2  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:19:23am

re: #440 ProGunLiberal

Tacit approval. The "I agree with you, and won't speak against it" concept.

And then you attack those who say that say she could have been honestly mistaken. I'm sure more than a few of us on here had misconceptions on our ancestry passed down from our parents. My dad's concept of where his side came from was wrong by about 1/2 the Netherlands.

what a load of bull

Show me where I APPROVE slurs

443 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:19:54am

re: #439 sattv4u2

I have no idea where she picked up the "lore"

So you have no data to refute Warren's claim that her family told her about the NA roots, yet you accuse her of lying. Now, why would you do that, I wonder...

444 HappyWarrior  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:20:34am

re: #435 Lidane

Lots of people get told stuff about their backgrounds. Think about the people who get told that their relative was a famous military figure or had some key role in an event.

The question is, did she ever use what she'd been told about Native American ancestry to her advantage? Did she ever use it on job applications, or scholarship forms, or to self-identify as Native to qualify for some sort of affirmative action program? If the answer is no, then this is a non-issue. It's no different than a redneck in Georgia being told that his ancestors played a pivotal role in the Civil War.

Sounds about right to me. Family legends are part of family honestly. Got a few of them in my own.

445 sattv4u2  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:20:34am

re: #443 May Day! May Day!

[Link: www.pollysgranddaughter.com...]

446 wrenchwench  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:21:09am
447 ProGunLiberal  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:21:37am

re: #442 sattv4u2

You certain as hell haven't spoken against them. So I take it as a approval.

This is how Republicans have treated Democrats for years. Don't like it when I do it back? Deal with it.

448 Kronocide  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:22:10am

re: #442 sattv4u2

what a load of bull

Show me where I APPROVE slurs

For the third time, the last 50 posts of this thread.

If it isn't approval, it's defending it.

449 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:22:59am

re: #445 sattv4u2

[Link: www.pollysgranddaughter.com...]

I doubt very much that this external link explains your seemingly less than honest accusations against Warren.

450 sattv4u2  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:23:03am

Well, as fun as this is (seriously ,, I am having a good time ,, except for the APPROVE slurs part) I must be going

UEFA 's about to start

[Link: www.uefa.com...]

451 wrenchwench  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:23:47am

19th May 2012 | 62 notes
Anonymous asked: Where does this end?

Same place everything ends: red and white checked room, dark velvet drapes, and a whirring noise constantly getting louder as everyone you’ve ever met or will meet turns to stare at you in silence.

452 sattv4u2  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:23:48am

re: #447 ProGunLiberal

You certain as hell haven't spoken against them. So I take it as a approval.

The is how Republicans have treated Democrats for years. Don't like it when I do it back? Deal with it.

I didn't speak out against Jay Walking

I MUST APPROVE IT

I didn't speak out against cat juggling

I MUST APPROVE IT!!

453 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:24:33am

Damn guys I can't listen to the thread over all this childish bickering, keep it down will you?

///

454 Gus  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:24:40am
455 wrenchwench  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:25:05am

18th May 2012 | 36 notes
mogatrat asked: Yo, why is it that these people can't figure out that just because you don't believe you're racist, you can't possibly be saying racist shit?

For real though, it’s so weird. It’s almost like racists are some stupid assholes.

456 sattv4u2  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:25:24am

re: #447 ProGunLiberal

You certain as hell haven't spoken against them. So I take it as a approval.

The is how Republicans have treated Democrats for years. Don't like it when I do it back? Deal with it.

This, from a person that has a self admitted "blood lust"

{sigh}

457 Gus  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:25:49am

re: #454 Gus

[Embedded content]

The trailer:

458 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:25:56am

re: #452 sattv4u2

I didn't speak out against Jay Walking

I MUST APPROVE IT

I didn't speak out against cat juggling

I MUST APPROVE IT!!

You didn't think twice before accusing Warren of lying, now you're complaining about someone else's accusation against you. Ironic.

459 ProGunLiberal  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:26:06am

re: #454 Gus

re: #452 sattv4u2

Come Satt, come out and defend this guy while you are at it.

460 RadicalModerate  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:26:29am

re: #419 Lidane

VIDEO: McCain Says President Obama Will Remain On Arizona Ballot Despite Birther Threats

Unfortnately, the Secretary of State at the state level typically is the person who oversees elections, including who is allowed on election ballots. The goal of keeping President Obama off of various state ballots is the foremost reason for the upsurge in birtherism, and I can see at least a half dozen states who are going to attempt to do exactly this when it gets close to Election Day. Its disenfranchisement of the very worst kind, and very very much racially motivated.

461 Gus  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:26:55am
462 sattv4u2  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:27:46am

re: #459 ProGunLiberal

re: #452 sattv4u2

Come Satt, come out and defend this guy while you are at it.

nah,, instead,, why don't you threaten him with your blood lust!!

463 Gus  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:28:12am

Uh oh.

464 HappyWarrior  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:28:29am

re: #460 RadicalModerate

Unfortnately, the Secretary of State at the state level typically is the person who oversees elections, including who is allowed on election ballots. The goal of keeping President Obama off of various state ballots is the foremost reason for the upsurge in birtherism, and I can see at least a half dozen states who are going to attempt to do exactly this when it gets close to Election Day. Its disenfranchisement of the very worst kind, and very very much racially motivated.

I've never seen anything like this before. It's unreal. I mean I understand not liking his policies but refusing to accept that the president of the United States is a natural born US citizen even if it's being done insincerely to pander to the birther movement is unfriggingbelievable to me.

465 Kronocide  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:29:33am

re: #462 sattv4u2

nah,, instead,, why don't you threaten him with your blood lust!!

SQUIRREL!

It's all in good fun, defending racial mockery but acting sanctimonious that you didn't approve it but was accused of doing so, and saying you're having a good time doing it.

466 Killgore Trout  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:30:16am

re: #445 sattv4u2

[Link: www.pollysgranddaughter.com...]

I did grad work in Arizona and spent a lot of time with native Americam musicians and performers. One of their biggest pet peeves is white people claiming Indian ancestry as some sort of badge of honor. It's very offensive to them. As I recall they also slammed douchebag Ward Churchill for the same thing.
BTW, they also really hate hippies who adopt Indian spiritual rituals like sweat lodges. It really demeans their spiritual ancestry.

467 HappyWarrior  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:30:37am

re: #461 Gus

[Embedded content]

What a load of crap. As was Ricketts' claim that he's politically independent when nearly all his political donations have gone to the Republicans. Ain't fooling no one, Ricketts.

468 Gus  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:30:45am

Oh. Here we go. It's the left's fault.

469 wrenchwench  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:30:59am

re: #454 Gus

[Embedded content]

Holy shit. A full length feature film campaign ad. Looks horrible.

470 Gus  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:31:13am

Goal posts moving.

471 Gus  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:33:01am

re: #469 wrenchwench

Holy shit. A full length feature film campaign ad. Looks horrible.

Yikes. What a country. The neocons and right wingers really want to be back in power again to start another war and feed the rich.

472 simoom  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:33:59am

[Link: abcnews.go.com...]

Blind dissident Chen Guangcheng and his immediate family have left China on a flight to the United States. They are expected to arrive in Newark, N.J., Saturday evening.

State Dept Spokeswoman Victoria Nuland confirmed that Chen and his family left China so he can pursue studies at an American university.

...

Several media outlets, as well as human rights supporters in the U.S., cited late May as a potential departure date if all rules for passport applications were strictly adhered to.

But on Saturday, social media reports surfaced that said Chen had left the hospital. By midday, Chen spoke to the AFP and the Associated Press to say he was at the airport with his family and while he had no details, he believed they would be leaving that day.

His departure is in some ways bittersweet. His supporters by and large agree the only way he will be truly safe is outside China.

But for Chen, and dissidents before him, leaving is a compromise; he may be safer but he is also farther away from his cause.

473 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:34:43am

re: #469 wrenchwench

re: #471 Gus

Based on Dinesh D'Souza's poison.

Old is new.

474 Gus  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:35:07am

re: #469 wrenchwench

Holy shit. A full length feature film campaign ad. Looks horrible.

Based on The Roots of Obama's Rage by Dinesh DSouza.

He’s been called many things: a socialist, a radical fellow traveler, a Chicago machine politician, a prince of the civil rights movement, a virtual second coming of Christ, or even a covert Muslim.

But as New York Times bestselling author Dinesh D’Souza points out in this shockingly revealing book, these labels merely slap our own preconceived notions on Barack Obama.

The real Obama is a man shaped by experiences far different from those of most Americans; he is a much stranger, more determined, and exponentially more dangerous man than you’d ever imagined. He is not motivated by the civil rights struggles of African Americans in the 1960s—those battles leave him wholly untouched. He is not motivated by the socialist or Marxist propaganda that hypnotized a whole generation of wooly–minded academics and condescending liberals—those concepts also leave him cold.

What really motivates Barack Obama is an inherited rage—an often masked, but profound rage that comes from his African father; an anticolonialist rage against Western dominance, and most especially against the wealth and power of the very nation Barack Obama now leads. It is this rage that explains the previously inexplicable, and that gives us a startling look at what might lie ahead.

In The Roots of Obama’s Rage you’ll learn: Why Obama’s economic policies are actually designed to make America poorer compared to the rest of the world Why Obama will welcome a nuclear Iran Why Obama sees America as a rogue nation—worse than North Korea The real reason Obama banished a bust of Winston Churchill from the White House and ordered NASA to praise the scientific contributions of Muslims Why Obama would like to make America’s superpower status a thing of the past

Stunning, provocative, original, and telling—no one has better diagnosed who Obama is, what he intends to do, and why he poses an existential threat to America than Dinesh D’Souza in The Roots of Obama’s Rage .

475 HappyWarrior  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:35:10am

re: #469 wrenchwench

Holy shit. A full length feature film campaign ad. Looks horrible.

I stopped reading when I saw based of Dinesh D'Sousa's book. D'Sousa has a huge agenda yet we're supposed to trust him somehow.

476 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:35:49am

I see Satt can't defend his accusation of lying against Warren. Neither does he retract it. Should we perhaps assume that he lied about Warren "lying"?

477 HappyWarrior  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:36:30am

re: #474 Gus

Based on The Roots of Obama's Rage by Dinesh DSouza.

The only who has rage is D'Sousa who can't get over the fact that Obama is president. What a sad little man he is.

478 simoom  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:37:02am

re: #469 wrenchwench

Holy shit. A full length feature film campaign ad. Looks horrible.

They have outside money to blow and only so many places to spend it so you'll probably see lots of stuff like this funded. I think GOP outside money is currently at a 4 to 1 advantage.

edit:
[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

479 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:37:34am

re: #474 Gus

re: #475 HappyWarrior

Interesting:

From Gerald R. Molen
Producer of Academy Award Winning
Best Picture Schindler's List

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Molen is an active member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.[3]

480 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:38:03am

re: #476 May Day! May Day!

I see Satt can't defend his accusation of lying against Warren. Neither does he retract it. Should we perhaps assume that he lied about Warren "lying"?

Fair enough.

481 HappyWarrior  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:38:09am

re: #479 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)

re: #475 HappyWarrior

Interesting:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Yeah I googled him as soon as I saw that. I was thinking sheesh someone didn't learn a damn thing from the film he produced. Doubt Speilberg, a noted Democrat is going to want to work with him again after this trash.

482 sattv4u2  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:38:39am

re: #476 May Day! May Day!

I see Satt can't defend his accusation of lying against Warren. Neither does he retract it. Should we perhaps assume that he lied about Warren "lying"?

iirc, Warren stated that she researched this 'lore". In that she hasn't produced her research to back her claim I would question her honesty about the claim, yes

483 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:41:42am

And apparently Fox News is bringing back the "Ground Zero Mosque" too now.

It's all coming back.

484 HappyWarrior  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:42:43am

re: #483 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)

And apparently Fox News is bringing back the "Ground Zero Mosque" too now.

It's all coming back.

Did we step in a time warp back to 2010? I mean really Fox, really. Then again they are hacks.

485 Gus  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:43:47am

re: #482 sattv4u2

iirc, Warren stated that she researched this 'lore". In that she hasn't produced her research to back her claim I would question her honesty about the claim, yes

What claim? It was that dope Howie Carr that made an issue out of this. He and the Scott Brown camp are the ones that are publicizing what was an essentially private issue for Elizabeth Warren.

486 Killgore Trout  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:43:52am

re: #476 May Day! May Day!

I see Satt can't defend his accusation of lying against Warren. Neither does he retract it. Should we perhaps assume that he lied about Warren "lying"?

I don't think it's so much about lying, although that's the wingnut accusation. She's claiming a culture that isn't really hers. I think this is a fair and honest representation about how native Americans feel about it....
Elizabeth Warren and the Politics of Being Indian

Unfortunately, in defending herself and her choice to list herself as minority professor, Warren has relied on her own reductionist interpretations of Indianness.
...
Hollywood-fed American public. In many cases those ignorant, Hollywood-based images are some of the only ways we know ourselves what constitutes an authentic Indian.

For me, being Navajo is a political identity based on the fact that I have ancestors that inhabited this land with alternative systems of governance that were then completely destroyed by the settlement of Americans. For Warren, it seems, being Cherokee is not just about her grandfather’s handsome bone structure but a sense of place (from her Oklahoma upbringing) and a family tradition carried down through orally-transmitted stories. Though this is only conjecture on my part and though I do wish Warren had a history of serving and being accountable to the Cherokee people she is so proud to be tied to, I have few problems with somebody who self-identifies as part Indian based on oral history and a connection to land.

Read the whole thing for the complete nuance but I think that sums it up pretty well. It's not about genetics or physical appearance. It's about culture.

487 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:44:32am

re: #481 HappyWarrior

Yeah I googled him as soon as I saw that. I was thinking sheesh someone didn't learn a damn thing from the film he produced. Doubt Speilberg, a noted Democrat is going to want to work with him again after this trash.

I wonder if Molen would appreciate somebody making a movie about his life based on trash like D'Souza's, complete with spooky narrator voice reading from LDS prophecies.

488 Interesting Times  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:44:50am

Durr hurr, we don't have to prove she's lying, she has to prove she wasn't! Derp.

489 HappyWarrior  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:46:17am

re: #487 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)

I wonder if Molen would appreciate somebody making a movie about his life based on trash like D'Souza's, complete with spooky narrator voice reading from LDS prophecies.

Why Gerald Molen hates America, it's perfect. I mean we have as much proof that he rages against America as Dinesh does about Obama, right? By the way, NYT book review reviewed Jonah Goldberg's latest screed today. Seems like more of the same Liberals are bad! crap that every right wing writer writes every couple years.

490 Obdicut  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:46:39am

re: #466 Killgore Trout

Tell me about it. Then there's idiot Westerners claiming to be Zen.

However, in Warren's case, this hasn't exactly been a big part of her identity.

491 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:47:12am

re: #489 HappyWarrior

By the way, NYT book review reviewed Jonah Goldberg's latest screed today. Seems like more of the same Liberals are bad! crap that every right wing writer writes every couple years.

[Link: www.salon.com...]

492 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:47:41am

It is war to the death over an expressed opinion time here on LGF again, one poster must go, never to be heard from again. (ever notice that we are slowly running out of posters?) Who will win? We don't know yet, but meanwhile all the posts will read like a third grade recess time argument!

Get your popcorn out and try not to gag while eating it if you can... :(

493 HappyWarrior  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:49:36am

re: #491 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)

[Link: www.salon.com...]

Nice piece. Really Goldberg must have been picked on as a child by a liberal kid because he's blamed liberals for everything to fascism to why he can't sleep at night. Okay, I made the last part up obviously but the guy should be ashamed of himself for comparing modern liberalism to fascism knowing full well that the Third Reich oppressed liberals. And that's not to say Nazism is compatible with the modern American right but the Nazis weren't leftist and that myth needs to stop.

494 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:50:23am

re: #492 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You

Are the mean people asking others to justify or back up their opinions again? That's horrible, somebody should do something about this rational discourse thing!

495 Mocking Jay  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:51:26am

This woman should have completely scoured historical documents and genealogical records before daring to claim that has a tenuous claim to 1/32nd Indian blood. That's how it normally works, right? Folks, it's clear this woman cannot be trusted with a Senate seat...

496 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:52:11am

re: #482 sattv4u2

iirc, Warren stated that she researched this 'lore".

Exact quote, please.

497 HappyWarrior  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:52:19am

re: #495 It's a cookbook!

This woman should have completely scoured historical documents and genealogical records before daring to claim that has a tenuous claim to 1/32nd Indian blood. That's how it normally works, right? Folks, it's clear this woman cannot be trusted with a Senate seat...

Yeah it's stupid. I really think this is a total non-troversy from what I've seen.

498 Gus  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:52:31am

Oh please. It's not just an attack on Elizabeth Warren for perhaps an ill advised self identification. This is about a larger attack from the right-wing against minority status, EOE, diversity, multiculturalism, Harvard and what they see as a "left wing" academia.

SNAFU

499 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:53:29am

re: #486 Killgore Trout

She's claiming a culture that isn't really hers.

It's really not for you to decide how a person self-identifies.

500 Mocking Jay  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:53:37am

re: #497 HappyWarrior

Yeah it's stupid. I really think this is a total non-troversy from what I've seen.

Yes. Our choices have been reduced to this or armchair prosecuting/defending George Zimmerman.

Yay us.

501 funky chicken  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:53:43am

re: #53 jaunte

“The metrosexual black Abe Lincoln has emerged as a hyper-partisan, hyper-liberal, elitist politician with more than a bit of the trimmer in him.”

What does "with more than a bit of the trimmer in him" mean?

502 HappyWarrior  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:53:56am

re: #500 It's a cookbook!

Yes. Our choices have been reduced to this or armchair prosecuting/defending George Zimmerman.

Yay us.

We're fucked.

503 Mocking Jay  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:54:19am

re: #502 HappyWarrior

We're fucked.

Now you're getting it.

504 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:54:56am

I posted at LGF time 7:23 that I was going to groom my dog.

I just finished.

I'm tired. I don't want to groom another dog for a month!

He should be much cooler for the summer tho.

505 Mocking Jay  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:55:18am

re: #504 ggt

I posted at LGF time 7:23 that I was going to groom my dog.

I just finished.

I'm tired. I don't want to groom another dog for a month!

He should be much cooler for the summer tho.

I enjoyed a nice nap while you were gone.

506 HappyWarrior  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:56:45am

Any to drift OT there was an interesting article in the WaPo today about how China's political leaders use anti-US rhetoric yet have many children or grandchildren attending Harvard or other prominent US universities. Also read that not surprisingly China has the highest number of foreign born students in the US at universities.

507 Killgore Trout  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:57:09am

re: #499 May Day! May Day!

It's really not for you to decide how a person self-identifies.

Agreed. It's not but by reading that article it should become clear why Native Americans find it offensive. I really don't care and what her political opponents think isn't important to me either but by reading that article it should become clear why Native Americans find it offensive.

508 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:57:13am

re: #505 It's a cookbook!

I enjoyed a nice nap while you were gone.

:-|

thanks!

509 Gus  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:57:19am

re: #500 It's a cookbook!

Yes. Our choices have been reduced to this or armchair prosecuting/defending George Zimmerman.

Yay us.

Ugh. Not that again.

"I'm not really on anyone's side but don't pay attention that most of the words that I type seem to be in defense of George Zimmerman! You people are biased!!"

//

510 Obdicut  Sat, May 19, 2012 9:59:36am

re: #507 Killgore Trout

You mean 'some' Native Americans. other Native Americans encourage people with small amounts of Native American heritage to embrace it, learn more about it, and share in the culture.

Weirdly enough, they don't all have one point of view. Funny, that.

511 Killgore Trout  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:00:21am

re: #510 Obdicut

You mean 'some' Native Americans. other Native Americans encourage people with small amounts of Native American heritage to embrace it, learn more about it, and share in the culture.

Weirdly enough, they don't all have one point of view. Funny, that.

Yes, you would know that if you read the article I linked to.

512 wrenchwench  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:00:21am

re: #486 Killgore Trout

I don't think it's so much about lying, although that's the wingnut accusation. She's claiming a culture that isn't really hers. I think this is a fair and honest representation about how native Americans feel about it...
Elizabeth Warren and the Politics of Being Indian

Read the whole thing for the complete nuance but I think that sums it up pretty well. It's not about genetics or physical appearance. It's about culture.

From the end of that essay:

In this case, it’s as if conservatives have been storing up all the unoriginal stereotypes of Indians they can think of, just waiting for a chance to unleash them all in one gushing flow of digital racist vomit. On Twitter this was manifested through the trending hashtag #ElizabethWarrenIndianNames which included such zingers as Pocca-hot-mess (a clever variation on the tired Pocca-hot-ass) and Lia-watha. Meanwhile, Ann Coulter at her ever-insightful best wrote a piece called “Elizabeth Warren’s Indian Name: Dances with Lies” which opens with, “Elizabeth Warren, who also goes by her Indian name, ‘Lies on Race Box,’ is in big heap-um trouble.”

If Elizabeth Warren hasn’t been a victim of racialized verbal violence before in her life, she certainly is now. Welcome to the good life.

There's other good stuff in there too, but I would add what Gus said:

re: #498 Gus

Oh please. It's not just an attack on Elizabeth Warren for perhaps an ill advised self identification. This is about a larger attack from the right-wing against minority status, EOE, diversity, multiculturalism, Harvard and what they see as a "left wing" academia.

SNAFU

513 Mocking Jay  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:00:22am

re: #507 Killgore Trout

Agreed. It's not but by reading that article it should become clear why Native Americans find it offensive. I really don't care and what her political opponents think isn't important to me either but by reading that article it should become clear why Native Americans find it offensive.

Then this must really give them agita.

Depp has surmised that he is part Native American, saying in 2011, "I guess I have some Native American [in me] somewhere down the line. My great-grandmother was quite a bit of Native American, she grew up Cherokee or maybe Creek Indian. Makes sense in terms of coming from Kentucky, which is rife with Cherokee and Creek."[7][8]

[Link: geektyrant.com...]

yikes

514 funky chicken  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:01:04am

re: #474 Gus

Based on The Roots of Obama's Rage by Dinesh DSouza.

Barack Obama has never struck me as an angry guy. And the whole "consumed by rage" thing ... really? It just doesn't make any sense at all.

515 wrenchwench  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:01:09am

re: #507 Killgore Trout

Agreed. It's not but by reading that article it should become clear why Native Americans find it offensive. I really don't care and what her political opponents think isn't important to me either but by reading that article it should become clear why Native Americans find it offensive.

She didn't sound offended by Warren to me.

516 HappyWarrior  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:01:35am

re: #510 Obdicut

You mean 'some' Native Americans. other Native Americans encourage people with small amounts of Native American heritage to embrace it, learn more about it, and share in the culture.

Weirdly enough, they don't all have one point of view. Funny, that.

Yep. I'm sure there are differing perspectives on this within the NA community. I know there was about the Indian sport teams name controversy. I can't really judge Warren either way but I think it was an innocent thing. She was repeating family lore that had been brought down from generations.

517 Obdicut  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:02:04am

re: #511 Killgore Trout

Yes, you would know that if you read the article I linked to.

Oddly, I didn't have to read it to know it. The question is, how come you read the article and still managed to state it as though it offended all Native Americans?

518 HappyWarrior  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:03:57am

re: #514 funky chicken

Barack Obama has never struck me as an angry guy. And the whole "consumed by rage" thing ... really? It just doesn't make any sense at all.

I know. When I hear the wingnuts say Obama is consumed with rage against America. I have to laugh because the only people you're seeing raging on this subject is a bunch of wingnuts who want to badly convince you that Obama secretly loathes this country and its people. They have no proof of it. Really, I almost pity Dinesh D'Sousa for wasting his time working on such an inane book but then I remember a couple of things: One he's trying to sell this crap to enrich himself and two even if he doesn't actually believe it, he's trying to spread a falsehood.

519 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:04:04am

re: #507 Killgore Trout

Agreed. It's not but by reading that article it should become clear why Native Americans find it offensive. I really don't care and what her political opponents think isn't important to me either but by reading that article it should become clear why Native Americans find it offensive.

I understand how some may be offended. I also don't think too much should be made of this kind of offense.

The issue of "lying", however, is about the character, and I've seen nothing to suggest that lying has been involved, rather than naive acceptance of old family claims.

520 Gus  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:04:13am
521 sattv4u2  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:04:29am

re: #496 May Day! May Day!

Exact quote, please.

Can't find it (hence, the iirc)

Maybe I iirc'd wrong!

522 Obdicut  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:05:08am

re: #519 May Day! May Day!

Hell, I don't have any 'proof' that my ancestors on my Grandmother's father's side were crypto-Jews. She said that they were, but I don't have anything other than her word on it.

I don't feel like I'm lying for saying that it's true. I've no reason to disbelieve her.

523 Obdicut  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:05:43am

re: #520 Gus

Now that's standing up for what you believe in. Kudos to them.

524 sattv4u2  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:06:01am

re: #517 Obdicut

Oddly, I didn't have to read it to know it. The question is, how come you read the article and still managed to state it as though it offended all Native Americans?

Where did KT state "all"?

He did state I think this is a fair and honest representation about how ( ) native Americans feel about it...

( ) space was left for where the word ALL wasn't

525 ProGunLiberal  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:06:27am

re: #490 Obdicut

What I see here is someone who was misinformed by their parents on their ancestry, and didn't find out til later.

Not that uncommon. My dad told me and my sister for years that the family came from the Holland Region in the Netherlands.

Later research showed that it was actually the region of Frisia where I came from, particularily the area around the city of Groningen. Go look and see where Groningen Province is in the Netherlands as compared to Holland.

It is the equivalent of saying one is from Colorado, when they are actually from Wisconsin.

526 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:07:05am

re: #521 sattv4u2

Can't find it (hence, the iirc)

Maybe I iirc'd wrong!

Very convenient! /

So given that you are not sure, would you perhaps retract your positive claim of lying?

527 Gus  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:07:37am

re: #512 wrenchwench

From the end of that essay:

There's other good stuff in there too, but I would add what Gus said:

re: #498 Gus

Thanks. And exactly WRT to the end of that blog entry. Spells it out rather nicely. So to re-cap with added bullet points:

• In this case, it’s as if conservatives have been storing up all the unoriginal stereotypes of Indians they can think of, just waiting for a chance to unleash them all in one gushing flow of digital racist vomit.

• On Twitter this was manifested through the trending hashtag #ElizabethWarrenIndianNames which included such zingers as Pocca-hot-mess (a clever variation on the tired Pocca-hot-ass) and Lia-watha.

• Meanwhile, Ann Coulter at her ever-insightful best wrote a piece called “Elizabeth Warren’s Indian Name: Dances with Lies” which opens with, “Elizabeth Warren, who also goes by her Indian name, ‘Lies on Race Box,’ is in big heap-um trouble.”

You have to wonder about: Ann Coulter at her ever-insightful best. Sarcasm?

528 HappyWarrior  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:08:39am

Yeah because Ann Coulter never lies about anything. Ever.

529 ProGunLiberal  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:08:53am

re: #506 HappyWarrior

Well, there is one way to stop that hypocrisy.

No more student visas for PRC students. I don't want to be helping that government in any way, including training people they will put into the bureaucracy to help the continued slow-motion murder of the Tibetans and Uyghurs.

530 Mocking Jay  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:12:53am

re: #527 Gus

Yeah, that's exactly how you stick up for minorities...

531 HappyWarrior  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:14:05am

re: #530 It's a cookbook!

Yeah, that's exactly how you stick up for minorities...

Seems to me they're only doing it to smear Warren. That should offend the Native Americans who were upset far more than Warren believing family legend and repeating it.

532 sattv4u2  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:14:52am

re: #526 May Day! May Day!

Very convenient! /

So given that you are not sure, would you perhaps retract your positive claim of lying?

Not "convenient" at all. I seem to recall her saying something about researching it and finding "a" copy of a document about a great great great grandparents marriage certificate application where someone had hand written on the copy the word "cherokee" on it
[Link: blogs.bostonmagazine.com...]

533 wrenchwench  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:14:57am

re: #527 Gus

Thanks. And exactly WRT to the end of that blog entry. Spells it out rather nicely. So to re-cap with added bullet points:

You have to wonder about: Ann Coulter at her ever-insightful best. Sarcasm?

Nope. Don't have to wonder. That there is the species sarcasmos humerous as seen in the wild.

534 wrenchwench  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:16:29am

re: #529 ProGunLiberal

Well, there is one way to stop that hypocrisy.

No more student visas for PRC students. I don't want to be helping that government in any way, including training people they will put into the bureaucracy to help the continued slow-motion murder of the Tibetans and Uyghurs.

I've always thought that having foreign students come here to experience life in the US is the best form of advertisement for liberal democracy that there is.

535 Gus  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:17:13am

re: #533 wrenchwench

Nope. Don't have to wonder. That there is the species sarcasmos humerous as seen in the wild.

Sometimes my sarcasmos elbow flares up.

//

536 Gus  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:17:50am

re: #535 Gus

Sometimes my sarcasmos elbow flares up.

//

Oops. That was meant to be in italics not a strike-out.

537 wrenchwench  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:18:45am

re: #536 Gus

Oops. That was meant to be in italics not a strike-out.

I saw it in Spy and waited until you had a chance to fix it before I clicked "New Comments".

:)

538 Gus  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:19:41am

re: #537 wrenchwench

I saw it in Spy and waited until you had a chance to fix it before I clicked "New Comments".

:)

Thanks. Takes a while for the signals to work their way through the under-sea cables.

//

539 HappyWarrior  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:20:07am

re: #534 wrenchwench

I've always thought that having foreign students come here to experience life in the US is the best form of advertisement for liberal democracy that there is.

Yep, good point. By the way number 2 on the list was India. It gets me thinking about how unreal it is that two nations hold more than a quarter of the world's population.

540 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:20:36am

re: #532 sattv4u2

Not "convenient" at all. I seem to recall her saying something about researching it and finding "a" copy of a document about a great great great grandparents marriage certificate application where someone had hand written on the copy the word "cherokee" on it
[Link: blogs.bostonmagazine.com...]

From your link:

But here’s the thing: Warren never said that she could prove or document her supposed heritage.

Will you now retract the false accusation of lying?

541 ProGunLiberal  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:23:16am

re: #534 wrenchwench

Heh, those kids will never change anything. Most of them buy all the bullshit about the Tibetans and Uyghurs too, and said that we are worse than they are on Human Rights.

At least from my experience with talking to Chinese Exchange Students at OU. Talking to them made my opinion on China become harder and much, much less kind.

542 ProGunLiberal  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:24:16am

re: #540 May Day! May Day!

To him, every Liberal is a liar.

And to me, all Conservatives are malicious people who want to deny minorities civil rights.

543 Obdicut  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:25:30am

re: #542 ProGunLiberal

To him, every Liberal is a liar.

And to me, all Conservatives are malicious people who want to deny minorities civil rights.

And both things are demonstrably untrue.

544 sattv4u2  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:25:42am

re: #540 May Day! May Day!

spoke this afternoon with Alethea Harney, Warren’s campaign press secretary, and confirmed several key detailsHarney said that Warren does not have any records documenting her Native American heritage, but that is being researched.

[Link: legalinsurrection.com...]

Perhaps thats where I garnered that Warren had researched it, from Warrens press sec

545 Gus  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:25:57am

Ugh.

546 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:27:22am

re: #544 sattv4u2

spoke this afternoon with Alethea Harney, Warren’s campaign press secretary, and confirmed several key detailsHarney said that Warren does not have any records documenting her Native American heritage, but that is being researched.

[Link: legalinsurrection.com...]

Perhaps thats where I garnered that Warren had researched it, from Warrens press sec

Perhaps. The fact remains that you accused her of lying while not refuting the more plausible possibility of being honestly mistaken.

547 wrenchwench  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:27:36am

re: #541 ProGunLiberal

Heh, those kids will never change anything. Most of them buy all the bullshit about the Tibetans and Uyghurs too, and said that we are worse than they are on Human Rights.

At least from my experience with talking to Chinese Exchange Students at OU. Talking to them made my opinion on China become harder and much, much less kind.

What was your sample size? What's the margin of error?

You are misleading yourself and spreading misinformation when you draw conclusions about billions of people after talking to three or four of a certain group. What about Uyghur exchange students? should they be banned too?

548 sattv4u2  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:27:55am

re: #542 ProGunLiberal

To him, every Liberal is a liar

Thats the second accusation you've made of me

so,, please show where I think "every Liberal is a liar"?

((and I'm still waiting for you to show me where I "approve" (your word) of slurs))

549 Mocking Jay  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:28:13am

re: #541 ProGunLiberal

Heh, those kids will never change anything. Most of them buy all the bullshit about the Tibetans and Uyghurs too, and said that we are worse than they are on Human Rights.

It would be nice if we could stop helping people make that argument by imprisoning more people than any other country in the world.

550 The Left  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:28:57am

re: #549 It's a cookbook!

It would be nice if we could stop helping people make that argument by imprisoning more people than any other country in the world.

The death penalty isn't helping matters any either.

551 HappyWarrior  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:28:58am

re: #549 It's a cookbook!

It would be nice if we could stop helping people make that argument by imprisoning more people than any other country in the world.

Indeed.

552 Lidane  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:29:01am

re: #497 HappyWarrior

Yeah it's stupid. I really think this is a total non-troversy from what I've seen.

That's how I see it. To me, it's no different than someone being told that their ancestors did some amazing thing only to find out later that it wasn't the case. I'm not seeing the outrage here at all.

553 SpaceJesus  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:30:34am

goodbye, saturday afternoon

[Link: io9.com...]

554 Mocking Jay  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:30:44am

re: #550 Millicent Islam

The death penalty isn't helping matters any either.

That too.

Good to see you again!

555 sattv4u2  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:30:55am

re: #546 May Day! May Day!

Perhaps. The fact remains that you accused her of lying while not refuting the more plausible possibility of being honestly mistaken.

coould have been
or she could be lying

And even if she were lying, her motives would have to be known before a condemnation as I gave an example above

556 The Left  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:31:36am

re: #554 It's a cookbook!

That too.

Good to see you again!

You too! I like your user name. :) How's it going? It's a bonny but cold day in Scotland. Jimmah's making dinner and I'm just hanging out.

557 Mocking Jay  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:32:07am

re: #556 Millicent Islam

You too! I like your user name. :) How's it going? It's a bonny but cold day in Scotland. Jimmah's making dinner and I'm just hanging out.

Meh. Been sick a lot for the past three weeks. :-P

558 HappyWarrior  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:32:14am

re: #552 Lidane

That's how I see it. To me, it's no different than someone being told that their ancestors did some amazing thing only to find out later that it wasn't the case. I'm not seeing the outrage here at all.

Yep, family lore is part of being in a family. Every family has one. I remember my grandfather saying his brother would have been a big league pitcher if not for his drinking. Have no idea if that's true or not but it's part of lore.

559 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:33:00am

re: #555 sattv4u2

coould have been

I guess that's the best I can expect, so I'll take it./

560 sattv4u2  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:34:33am

re: #559 May Day! May Day!

I guess that's the best I can expect, so I'll take it./

Credit Cards only, please
Shipping and Handling is extra!

561 wrenchwench  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:35:03am

re: #559 May Day! May Day!

I guess that's the best I can expect, so I'll take it./

Another Sattified customer.

562 sattv4u2  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:36:47am

re: #561 wrenchwench

Another Sattified customer.

We Aim To Please
Your Aim Helps

(sign above a mens room urinal)

563 Gus  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:36:48am

Thanks Sergey. ;)

564 Interesting Times  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:37:09am

re: #559 May Day! May Day!

I guess that's the best I can expect, so I'll take it./

More JAQ*-ing off.

*Hey, I'm Just Asking Questions™!

565 The Left  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:37:19am

re: #557 It's a cookbook!

Meh. Been sick a lot for the past three weeks. :-P

Sorry to hear that! Hope you're better soon. Allergies, maybe?

566 Mocking Jay  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:37:56am

re: #565 Millicent Islam

Sorry to hear that! Hope you're better soon. Allergies, maybe?

Heh. Those too.

grrr....

567 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:38:15am

re: #520 Gus

[Embedded content]

Good for Georgia's academia. I actually know one of them. Nice woman.

568 Killgore Trout  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:38:46am

re: #558 HappyWarrior

Yep, family lore is part of being in a family. Every family has one. I remember my grandfather saying his brother would have been a big league pitcher if not for his drinking. Have no idea if that's true or not but it's part of lore.

I used to see it all the time in violin shops. Everyone who finds grandma's violin has some sort of lore that goes along with it. Especially on the west cost pretty much everybody's violin came across the country in a covered wagon. They all end up being made in 1930's Germany, sometimes France. You have to be careful breaking the news to them, family legends die hard and some people get really pissed.

569 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:39:26am

re: #567 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)

Oops, read that wrong. Wrong college.

570 Charles Johnson  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:39:57am

re: #544 sattv4u2

spoke this afternoon with Alethea Harney, Warren’s campaign press secretary, and confirmed several key detailsHarney said that Warren does not have any records documenting her Native American heritage, but that is being researched.

[Link: legalinsurrection.com...]

Perhaps thats where I garnered that Warren had researched it, from Warrens press sec

Yeah, and a completely batshit wingnut website run by a friend of racist Robert Stacy McCain's, who regularly trashes me. Lovely.

571 Gus  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:40:10am

re: #569 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)

Oops, read that wrong. Wrong college.

This is a baptist college. Which makes the response even more interesting. Positive that is.

572 HappyWarrior  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:40:53am

re: #568 Killgore Trout

I used to see it all the time in violin shops. Everyone who finds grandma's violin has some sort of lore that goes along with it. Especially on the west cost pretty much everybody's violin came across the country in a covered wagon. They all end up being made in 1930's Germany, sometimes France. You have to be careful breaking the news to them, family legends die hard and some people get really pissed.

I imagine so. That's the nature of legends I guess though. They're a powerful thing.

573 wrenchwench  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:40:57am

re: #562 sattv4u2

We Aim To Please
Your Aim Helps

(sign above a mens room urinal)

Is that where you found that link?

574 [deleted]  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:41:02am
575 ProGunLiberal  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:41:21am

re: #549 It's a cookbook!

That's just because China executes way more people.

re: #547 wrenchwench

I met one Uyghur at MSA. His family were refugees from the PRC. And my experience with those students combined recent bullying by China of Tajikstan, and intimidation of nations around the South China Sea doesn't help my opinion of that government and its supporters.

re: #548 sattv4u2

You refuse to condemn the slurs coming from your side. To me, that is an implicit endorsement. And refuse to take into account the fact that there is an innocent explanation, and that Warren must be lying.

Fortunately, I act the same to your side. Not like rationality will work with your side.

re: #543 Obdicut

It makes it easier to deal with the other side.

576 Gus  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:41:45am

re: #570 Charles Johnson

Yeah, and a completely batshit wingnut website run by a friend of racist Robert Stacy McCain's, who regularly trashes me. Lovely.

William A. Jacobson -- Wingnut Attorney

577 ProGunLiberal  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:43:01am

re: #575 ProGunLiberal

My computer's shitty connection is making posting interesting sorry about they pre-modded form.

578 sattv4u2  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:43:20am

re: #570 Charles Johnson

Yeah, and a completely batshit wingnut website run by a friend of racist Robert Stacy McCain's, who regularly trashes me. Lovely.

Sorry,, no idea

Delete the link then. The article says nothing critical about Warren

579 Killgore Trout  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:43:48am

Peaceful protest update:
Men accused of Chicago terror plot planned to attack Obama campaign HQ: prosecutors

Prosecutors say three men arrested in a raid on a Chicago apartment had planned to attack President Barack Obama's campaign headquarters, Mayor Rahm Emanuel's home and other targets, including police stations and police cars.

The men were arrested when police raided a Chicago apartment were being held on terrorism conspiracy charges Saturday stemming from allegations that they tried to make Molotov cocktails ahead of the NATO summit, which starts Sunday.

580 wrenchwench  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:44:04am

re: #575 ProGunLiberal

It would be easy for anybody to emulate your style and say you must be just like J.T. Ready.

581 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:44:22am

re: #544 sattv4u2

spoke this afternoon with Alethea Harney, Warren’s campaign press secretary, and confirmed several key detailsHarney said that Warren does not have any records documenting her Native American heritage, but that is being researched.

[Link: legalinsurrection.com...]

Perhaps thats where I garnered that Warren had researched it, from Warrens press sec

BLOGS I READ: ATLAS SHRUGS

582 sattv4u2  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:44:46am

re: #575 ProGunLiberal

You refuse to condemn the slurs coming from your side. To me, that is an implicit endorsement.

You refuse to condemn cat juggling
To me, that is an implicit endorsement

583 sattv4u2  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:45:09am

re: #581 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]

BLOGS I READ: ATLAS SHRUGS

swingasndamiss

Strike 1

584 blueraven  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:45:15am

I deal a lot with vintage and antique items.

Quite often I will be on a buy, and get the "family history" of a certain item.
The story may go something like "my great grandmother received this when she was 21 on her wedding day"

Then I look and I know damn well the item is from the 50s or 60s. But I never dispute their story. I know, most of the time, they really believe it.
Maybe the memory was confused from someone else and the story gets repeated over and over.

All families have these tales, and half the time, they are just wrong.
Doesn't mean the person telling it to me is lying.

585 Gus  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:45:42am

re: #579 Killgore Trout

Peaceful protest update:
Men accused of Chicago terror plot planned to attack Obama campaign HQ: prosecutors

Wait a minute now. Aren't we supposed to wait for a trial and for all the evidence to come in? So why are these people guilty for you already when you constantly implore that we should not say that George Zimmerman is guilty without all the real evidence and a trial?

586 Mocking Jay  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:46:01am

re: #583 sattv4u2

swingasndamiss

Strike 1

oh not this bullshit again

587 Kronocide  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:46:15am

re: #555 sattv4u2

coould have been
or she could be lying

And even if she were lying, her motives would have to be known before a condemnation as I gave an example above

Yes, it's plausible that almost 30 years ago she decided to claim a fractional Indian heritage then started lying about it. And her family is complicit in the lie.

It's also plausible that family members claimed Indian heritage and she accepted it as fact.

Do you give equal credence to both scenarios?

588 Gus  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:46:17am

[Taps fingers on desk.]

589 Mocking Jay  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:47:04am

re: #575 ProGunLiberal

You're right. We are a shining example for all mankind.

590 Obdicut  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:47:09am

re: #575 ProGunLiberal

It doesn't matter if it makes it easier. It's a lie, and a stupid one. you should stop doing it. It is counter productive, making you completely easy to dismiss.

If you want to be taken seriously, cut out the bullshit.

591 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:47:30am

re: #583 sattv4u2

swingasndamiss

Strike 1

Blogs I Read
HotAir
Obama to host W for portrait ceremony
14 minutes Ago
protein wisdom
Sure, the EPA may be annexing Alaska
36 minutes Ago
small dead animals
The Preakness
45 minutes Ago
Instapundit
HOW TO BACK UP YOUR GMAIL….
45 minutes Ago
Breitbart
Three Bond Films Hardly Worth a License to Kill
46 minutes Ago
Twitchy
Stay classy: “F**k you, NATO!” chants echo through streets of Chicago; Weather Underground makes cameo appearance
54 minutes Ago
Atlas Shrugs
Arizona elections chief asks Hawaii for proof of Obama's citizenship
UPDATE: Obama's "Born in Kenya" bio revised in 2007, 2 months after he declared for Pres
1 hour Ago

592 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:47:31am

re: #579 Killgore Trout

Peaceful protest update:
Men accused of Chicago terror plot planned to attack Obama campaign HQ: prosecutors

If I were thinking like Jim Hoft, I would say this is clear evidence they're right-wingers. Since I'm not, I will just point out that this is another illustration of how left-wing does not equal liberal.

593 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:48:13am

re: #586 It's a cookbook!

oh not this bullshit again

I LIKE THE BASES BALL

594 Gus  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:48:21am

re: #592 May Day! May Day!

If I were thinking like Jim Hoft, I would say this is clear evidence they're right-wingers. Since I'm not, I will just point out that this is another illustration of how left-wing does not equal liberal.

10 years!

//

595 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:49:08am

re: #594 Gus

10 years!

//

How dare you! (May I borrow your fainting couch?)

596 Killgore Trout  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:49:08am

re: #585 Gus

Wait a minute now. Aren't we supposed to wait for a trial and for all the evidence to come in? So why are these people guilty for you already when you constantly implore that we should not say that George Zimmerman is guilty without all the real evidence and a trial?

You can show up at the courthouse and join the rest of the supporters.
Protesters Turn Up at Court House for NATO Terror Suspects
Seriously, if they were charged with something like possession of dangerous materials or something I'd be more skeptical. It seems they had already made their devices and police seem to know what their planned targets were. The charge of terrorism is pretty serious and not thrown around lightly.

597 ProGunLiberal  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:49:39am

re: #580 wrenchwench

That's a thought that scares me.

Granted, alot of this is pent up frustration about other things that I then vent at convenient targets.

I get frustrated at isolation, I then take that frustration out on the first thing to tick me off.

598 HappyWarrior  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:49:47am

re: #584 blueraven

I deal a lot with vintage and antique items.

Quite often I will be on a buy, and get the "family history" of a certain item.
The story may go something like "my great grandmother received this when she was 21 on her wedding day"

Then I look and I know damn well the item is from the 50s or 60s. But I never dispute their story. I know, most of the time, they really believe it.
Maybe the memory was confused from someone else and the story gets repeated over and over.

All families have these tales, and half the time, they are just wrong.
Doesn't mean the person telling it to me is lying.

It goes back to how legends operate I guess. We want to believe the stories because I think we want to have some link to our ancestors. I have my grandmother's yearbook from 1928 for example and couple of her old coffee table photo books. It's how I continue to remember her in the now seven years since she's passed on.

599 Gus  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:49:50am

re: #596 Killgore Trout

You can show up at the courthouse and join the rest of the supporters.
Protesters Turn Up at Court House for NATO Terror Suspects
Seriously, if they were charged with something like possession of dangerous materials or something I'd be more skeptical. It seems they had already made their devices and police seem to know what their planned targets were. The charge of terrorism is pretty serious and not thrown around lightly.

Got it. IOW, you admit to being a hypocrite.

600 ProGunLiberal  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:51:06am

re: #589 It's a cookbook!

No, we have big problems.

But in terms of Human Rights, the PRC occupies the deepest, darkest reaches of hell.

601 sattv4u2  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:51:09am

re: #587 Kronocide

Nope ,,

I give more to the "family lore" theory actually. But I give some to the other

602 sattv4u2  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:51:43am

re: #591 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]

swingandamiss

Strike 2

603 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:52:58am

In other news, outside today I saw a happy group of black-clothed teenagers ride by on bikes, one of them holding a large anarchist flag. I guess it was a field-trip of sorts. Made me smile.

604 HappyWarrior  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:53:05am

re: #601 sattv4u2

Nope ,,

I give more to the "family lore" theory actually. But I give some to the other

I dunno. If she wanted to lie about something like that, why claim a very relatively miniscule amount of Native American heritage. That's just not something people do. Passing family lore on the other hand as fact seems more plausible to me. That's my observation anyhow.

605 The Left  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:54:27am

This thread needs ointment. Soothing ointment.

606 jaunte  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:54:39am

re: #587 Kronocide

Yes, it's plausible that almost 30 years ago she decided to claim a fractional Indian heritage then started lying about it. And her family is complicit in the lie.

The whole Warren furore is just part of the "Obama-the-unqualified-affirmative-action-President" dogwhistle.

607 ProGunLiberal  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:54:55am

re: #603 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)

They'll grow out of it.

Well, about 90% of them anyway. One Libertarian I knew in High School is still a Libertarian. Supported Barr in 2008, and Paul this year.

608 Mocking Jay  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:55:25am

re: #602 sattv4u2

swingandamiss

Strike 2

Are you so dumb that you don't realize he's talking about the blogs read by the blogger on LI?

609 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:58:05am

re: #607 ProGunLiberal

Anarchocapitalists/libertarians are weird. We don't really have them here. Anyway, these were more the usual european lefty anarchists who usually hang out with local punk rockers, antifa, and other lefties.

610 sattv4u2  Sat, May 19, 2012 10:58:39am

re: #608 It's a cookbook!

Are you so dumb that you don't realize he's talking about the blogs read by the blogger on LI?

so busy

glancing in, I see a response addressed to me, I assumed it's addressing me
Thats how people usually converse with each other

611 sattv4u2  Sat, May 19, 2012 11:00:21am

UEFA stands are full

Game starts soon!

612 wrenchwench  Sat, May 19, 2012 11:00:39am

re: #597 ProGunLiberal

That's a thought that scares me.

Granted, alot of this is pent up frustration about other things that I then vent at convenient targets.

I get frustrated at isolation, I then take that frustration out on the first thing to tick me off.

There are better ways to deal with isolation and frustration. Volunteer at an animal shelter and befriend dogs, cats, and humans. Volunteer at a rest home (or whatever they call 'em now) and befriend someone lonelier than you who has fantastic stories to tell. Take up a team sport. Be nice to yourself, don't beat yourself up. Ask your imam if he knows of any shut-ins who would like someone to visit once a week. Or once a month. It's an enriching experience. I urge you to try it. I did it when I was in college and I will remember that woman for the rest of my life.

613 wrenchwench  Sat, May 19, 2012 11:01:58am

re: #605 Millicent Islam

This thread needs ointment. Soothing ointment.

[Embedded content]

Needs to be available in larger tubes...

614 Gus  Sat, May 19, 2012 11:03:07am

re: #613 wrenchwench

Needs to be available in larger tubes...

And suppositories. I have my own line of Fighting Hellmice Suppositories™.

615 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, May 19, 2012 11:04:23am

Maybe lube rather than ointment.

616 Mocking Jay  Sat, May 19, 2012 11:05:34am

re: #610 sattv4u2

so busy

glancing in, I see a response addressed to me, I assumed it's addressing me
Thats how people usually converse with each other

swingandamiss!

It's not all that unusual for a post to refer to what it is that you are linking.

617 sattv4u2  Sat, May 19, 2012 11:08:31am

re: #616 It's a cookbook!

swingandamiss!

It's not all that unusual for a post to refer to what it is that you are linking.

Strike one on me then

BUT

seeing that poster and I have had a history here I assumed he was saying those are blogs I read

618 Mocking Jay  Sat, May 19, 2012 11:09:39am

re: #617 sattv4u2

Strike one on me then

BUT

seeing that poster and I have had a history here I assumed he was saying those are blogs I read

Hell, I assumed that he was right!

;-)

619 sattv4u2  Sat, May 19, 2012 11:11:06am

re: #618 It's a cookbook!

Hell, I assumed that he was right!

;-)

((ssshhhhhhh)))

620 HappyWarrior  Sat, May 19, 2012 11:11:59am

So uh moving on, anyone see that movie We Need To Talk About Kevin yet? I thought it was good. Disturbing though. Weird to see John C. Reilly back in a serious role again after Stepbrothers tho.

621 ProGunLiberal  Sat, May 19, 2012 11:12:32am

I was on Something Awful and stumbled across this.

What The Fuck is Wrong With Bayer?!?!

622 Mocking Jay  Sat, May 19, 2012 11:16:03am

re: #621 ProGunLiberal

I was on Something Awful and stumbled across this.

[Embedded content] What The Fuck is Wrong With Bayer?!?!

PROFIT$!

623 sattv4u2  Sat, May 19, 2012 11:16:09am

Will Smith Slaps Reporter For Trying To Kiss Him In The Mouth

NTTAWWT!!

624 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, May 19, 2012 11:16:15am

re: #608 It's a cookbook!

Are you so dumb that you don't realize he's talking about the blogs read by the blogger on LI?

le sigh :D

I figured the cut and paste of the blogroll would do it

625 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, May 19, 2012 11:17:51am

re: #621 ProGunLiberal

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

626 ProGunLiberal  Sat, May 19, 2012 11:17:57am

re: #622 It's a cookbook!

I never even heard of this incident until I stumbled on that Something Awful thread about Companies doing Asshole Things.

I have no other words except for the original exclamation.

627 wrenchwench  Sat, May 19, 2012 11:18:18am

re: #624 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]

le sigh :D

I figured the cut and paste of the blogroll would do it

You know what happens when you 'figure'. It makes a fig out of 'u' and 're'.

Oh wait. that's for 'assume'...

Nevermind.

628 The Left  Sat, May 19, 2012 11:19:00am

re: #620 HappyWarrior

So uh moving on, anyone see that movie We Need To Talk About Kevin yet? I thought it was good. Disturbing though. Weird to see John C. Reilly back in a serious role again after Stepbrothers tho.

I haven't seen it yet, but I definitely will. I thought the book was terrific.

629 sattv4u2  Sat, May 19, 2012 11:19:28am

re: #627 wrenchwench

You know what happens when you 'figure'. It makes a fig out of 'u' and 're'.

Oh wait. that's for 'assume'...

Nevermind.

Don't you have an inner tube to blow up, or sumfin!
/

630 Obdicut  Sat, May 19, 2012 11:19:37am

re: #627 wrenchwench

You know what happens when you assume, right?

Sometimes you're right, sometimes you're wrong, generally based on the strength of the data and logic that you used to make the assumption.

/robot mode off.

631 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, May 19, 2012 11:19:58am

re: #623 sattv4u2

Will Smith Slaps Reporter For Trying To Kiss Him In The Mouth

[Embedded content] NTTAWWT!!

He should have wore a sailor suit, only then is random kissing allowed!/

632 Gus  Sat, May 19, 2012 11:20:15am

re: #625 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Reading here: [Link: www.guardian.co.uk...]

That wasn't a vaccine. It was blood products.

633 HappyWarrior  Sat, May 19, 2012 11:20:22am

re: #628 Millicent Islam

I haven't seen it yet, but I definitely will. I thought the book was terrific.

We were originally going to watch Alfred Nobbs but hte Blu-Ray player needed updating so we ended up watching Kevin instead. I recommend it. I've yet to read the book but Tilda Swinton was great.

634 wrenchwench  Sat, May 19, 2012 11:21:47am

re: #629 sattv4u2

Don't you have an inner tube to blow up, or sumfin!
/

I've blown up, I mean inflated, three of them since I started commenting this morning. And took in two repairs, sold a pair of armwarmers, put away a delivery, etc. It's Multitasking Morning for me.

635 Gus  Sat, May 19, 2012 11:22:41am

re: #621 ProGunLiberal

I was on Something Awful and stumbled across this.

[Embedded content] What The Fuck is Wrong With Bayer?!?!

Bullshit title by whomever uploaded that video. They're obvious anti-vaxxers. It was contaminated blood products which you can read about here and here.

636 sattv4u2  Sat, May 19, 2012 11:24:15am

re: #631 May Day! May Day!

He should have wore a sailor suit, only then is random kissing allowed!/

Is that a dinghy in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?

637 ProGunLiberal  Sat, May 19, 2012 11:24:43am

re: #635 Gus

True. However, I only paid attention to Scarborough and the other guy. Still stunning as hell.

638 Killgore Trout  Sat, May 19, 2012 11:24:52am

Court documents for the OWS terrorists
I think there's a missing page. "Have you ever seen a cop on fire?"
They also had pipe bombs, a bullet proof vest and "weapons". I'm not sure if that means guns.

639 wrenchwench  Sat, May 19, 2012 11:25:29am

New thread just in time...

640 sattv4u2  Sat, May 19, 2012 11:25:46am

re: #634 wrenchwench

I've blown up, I mean inflated, three of them since I started commenting this morning. And took in two repairs, sold a pair of armwarmers, put away a delivery, etc. It's Multitasking Morning for me.

And here, all i'm doing is broadcasting the UEFA Championship to the world!!

What a slackard I am!Q!!

//

641 Killgore Trout  Sat, May 19, 2012 11:25:49am

re: #638 Killgore Trout

Court documents for the OWS terrorists
I think there's a missing page. "Have you ever seen a cop on fire?"
They also had pipe bombs, a bullet proof vest and "weapons". I'm not sure if that means guns.

Ah, the pages are all there, just out of sequence.

642 Gus  Sat, May 19, 2012 11:27:07am

re: #637 ProGunLiberal

True. However, I only paid attention to Scarborough and the other guy. Still stunning as hell.

You know the old American business standard. Think Ron Paul. It was cheaper to pay off a lawsuit than to retool, change a product design, throw out dangerous products, etc. So in the end it's likely that Bayer still made more money after the lawsuit. That's why we have class action lawsuits.

643 Gus  Sat, May 19, 2012 11:27:35am

re: #639 wrenchwench

New thread just in time...

Bummer.

//

644 Killgore Trout  Sat, May 19, 2012 11:28:37am

re: #638 Killgore Trout

Court documents for the OWS terrorists
I think there's a missing page. "Have you ever seen a cop on fire?"
They also had pipe bombs, a bullet proof vest and "weapons". I'm not sure if that means guns.

They also wanted to buy assault rifles.

645 sattv4u2  Sat, May 19, 2012 11:29:01am

re: #644 Killgore Trout

They also wanted to buy assault rifles.

Nothing to see here

Move along

646 Killgore Trout  Sat, May 19, 2012 11:29:54am

re: #645 sattv4u2

Nothing to see here

Move along

Thankfully a new thread!
/

647 sattv4u2  Sat, May 19, 2012 11:29:54am

re: #644 Killgore Trout

They also wanted to buy assault rifles.

Oh ,, and thanks for posting this

I would have been so lonely at the Bottom Ten!!!

//

648 Killgore Trout  Sat, May 19, 2012 11:30:49am

re: #647 sattv4u2

Oh ,, and thanks for posting this

I would have been so lonely at the Bottom Ten!!!

//

That's where all the good stuff is anyways.

649 Killgore Trout  Sat, May 19, 2012 11:31:13am

I wonder what a "mortar gun" is?

650 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, May 19, 2012 11:32:37am

Tubs? Try cisterns.

651 Killgore Trout  Sat, May 19, 2012 11:32:39am

I also wonder if the Koskid who was arrested with these guys is going to keep his account. I'm guessing he will.

652 sattv4u2  Sat, May 19, 2012 11:33:08am

re: #649 Killgore Trout

I wonder what a "mortar gun" is?

I have a feeling it's not as benign as a marshmellow gun

653 sattv4u2  Sat, May 19, 2012 11:33:50am

re: #651 Killgore Trout

I also wonder if the Koskid who was arrested with these guys is going to keep his account. I'm guessing he will.

Keep his account? Hell, they'll give him his own DIARY!

654 sattv4u2  Sat, May 19, 2012 11:35:02am

re: #649 Killgore Trout

I wonder what a "mortar gun" is?

They look benign!

[Link: www.google.com...]

655 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, May 19, 2012 11:35:31am

re: #651 Killgore Trout

I also wonder if the Koskid who was arrested with these guys is going to keep his account. I'm guessing he will.

Why would he not? Did he do anything wrong?

656 Killgore Trout  Sat, May 19, 2012 11:35:34am

Koskidz respond as anticipated: Occupy Terrorism: Entrapment

If this charges aren't dropped in this case; if it goes to trial; I hope we see some of the biggest protests we've seen, yet. This is bogus and it has to stop. If our government is so afraid of us gathering in the streets to tell them what we want, then they need to admit that they are so off course they should be listening, not shutting us up with the use of force and the wielding of the power to destroy lives.

657 sattv4u2  Sat, May 19, 2012 11:35:35am

re: #649 Killgore Trout

re: #654 sattv4u2

They look benign!

[Link: www.google.com...]

Or not

Image: fi_f_ar_mortar.jpg

658 palomino  Sat, May 19, 2012 11:38:15am

re: #596 Killgore Trout

You can show up at the courthouse and join the rest of the supporters.
Protesters Turn Up at Court House for NATO Terror Suspects
Seriously, if they were charged with something like possession of dangerous materials or something I'd be more skeptical. It seems they had already made their devices and police seem to know what their planned targets were. The charge of terrorism is pretty serious and not thrown around lightly.

Ohh, it's a serious charge. (As opposed to shooting a teenager.)

Well, then by all means it must be true.

659 Killgore Trout  Sat, May 19, 2012 11:40:05am

re: #655 May Day! May Day!

Why would he not? Did he do anything wrong?

It looks bad. Especially for someone who's trying to run a site dedicated to electing Dems. He was staying with people who were preparing acts of terrorism against Dem targets (among others). The terrorists were actively recruiting others so I doubt it was much of a secret among people in the house. There might not be sufficient evidence to charge him but that doesn't mean he didn't know what was going on around him.
Anyways, I think it's doubtful he'd be banned. He's going to be a celebrity over there.

660 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, May 19, 2012 11:40:34am

Some context for those who may be deceived by mendacious spin:

Kossack TarheelDemwas released this morning, with no charges filed.

661 Killgore Trout  Sat, May 19, 2012 11:41:41am

re: #657 sattv4u2

re: #654 sattv4u2

Or not

Image: fi_f_ar_mortar.jpg

I'm guessing it's a homemade device kind of like a potato gun

662 Gus  Sat, May 19, 2012 11:41:54am

re: #660 May Day! May Day!

Some context for those who may be deceived by mendacious spin:

What do you expect from folks that either refer to "Legal Insurrection" and also give kudos to the stalker blog.

663 sattv4u2  Sat, May 19, 2012 11:46:13am

re: #660 May Day! May Day!

Some context for those who may be deceived by mendacious spin:

After holding NATO protesters for up to 48 hours, and releasing 6 out of 9 arrestees without any charges, the City of Chicago filed state charges last night against 3 Occupy activists from Florida, including possession of explosives or incendiary devices, material support for terrorism, and conspiracy

6 released with no charges

3 held with charges,

664 sattv4u2  Sat, May 19, 2012 11:47:40am

Finally, the game starts

665 sattv4u2  Sat, May 19, 2012 11:47:48am

re: #664 sattv4u2

Finally, the game starts

UEFA, btw

666 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, May 19, 2012 11:53:25am

Hail Stan.

667 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, May 19, 2012 11:54:40am

re: #663 sattv4u2

After holding NATO protesters for up to 48 hours, and releasing 6 out of 9 arrestees without any charges, the City of Chicago filed state charges last night against 3 Occupy activists from Florida, including possession of explosives or incendiary devices, material support for terrorism, and conspiracy

6 released with no charges

3 held with charges,

I'm not really sure why you are quoting random unrelated pieces of information to me.

668 sattv4u2  Sat, May 19, 2012 11:57:00am

re: #667 May Day! May Day!

I'm not really sure why you are quoting random unrelated pieces of information to me.

I was hoping you would!!!

(meant to reply to KT,, sorry)

669 Killgore Trout  Sat, May 19, 2012 11:58:35am

re: #656 Killgore Trout

Koskidz respond as anticipated: Occupy Terrorism: Entrapment

Lol, somebody should get a screenshot. The diary defending the terrorists who wanted to burn down Obama's office has a banner ad to win a free dinner with Obama.

670 sattv4u2  Sat, May 19, 2012 12:03:44pm

re: #669 Killgore Trout

Lol, somebody should get a screenshot. The diary defending the terrorists who wanted to burn down Obama's office has a banner ad to win a free dinner with Obama.

WITH free airfare!!


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