Overnight Open Thread
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We did everything just the way grownups would have. Why didn’t it work?
— Piggy, “Lord of the Flies”
422 comments
1 |
Mattand Mon, May 21, 2012 10:17:16pm |
Just read the comment section over at the WND post about Sherrif Joe sending his goon squad to HI. Man, was that a mistake.
| 3 |
dragonath Mon, May 21, 2012 10:26:28pm |
Oh wow, someone put up an auction for a vial of St. Reagan's blood
I'm thinking this is a great chance for someone to make a reliquary or an army of clones.
| 4 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, May 21, 2012 10:26:59pm |
re: #3 Be Zorch, Daddio
Oh wow, someone put up an auction for a vial of St. Reagan's blood
I'm thinking this is a great chance for someone to make a reliquiary or a army of clones.
That is about the creepiest thing I've heard of yet.
| 6 |
Four More Tears Mon, May 21, 2012 11:09:55pm |
re: #3 Be Zorch, Daddio
Oh wow, someone put up an auction for a vial of St. Reagan's blood
I'm thinking this is a great chance for someone to make a reliquary or an army of clones.
If I had the money I would totally buy that and tell the world I was performing dark rituals with it.
| 7 |
Sol Berdinowitz Mon, May 21, 2012 11:10:06pm |
I am sure that the Hunters have "no recollection" of what they did to Piggy...
| 8 |
Kragar Mon, May 21, 2012 11:13:57pm |
re: #1 mattand
Just read the comment section over at the WND post about Sherrif Joe sending his goon squad to HI. Man, was that a mistake.
Wait, what happened? What authority does Sheriff Derp have in HI?
| 9 |
Varek Raith Mon, May 21, 2012 11:14:17pm |
re: #6 It's a cookbook!
If I had the money I would totally buy that and tell the world I was performing dark rituals with it.
Zombie!
| 10 |
Sol Berdinowitz Mon, May 21, 2012 11:16:26pm |
re: #8 Kragar
Wait, what happened? What authority does Sheriff Derp have in HI?
He has none, and he is frustrated that the officials there are giving him the Orly Taitz treatment, as in "Go away kid, you're bothering me!"
| 12 |
Four More Tears Mon, May 21, 2012 11:24:20pm |
re: #3 Be Zorch, Daddio
Wow...
My mother passed away back in November last year [2010] and my father passed away in January 2009. Prior to their passing, they knew that it was the only thing that I wanted with regards to their personal property or money that they accumulated over the years…
Wow...
No thanks, Ma & Pa, there's really nothing you two have ever made or liked that really interests me at all, guys. Just that vial of Reagan blood. That's really important to me and means so much to me... so I can sell it.
| 13 |
Lidane Mon, May 21, 2012 11:25:13pm |
re: #8 Kragar
What authority does Sheriff Derp have in HI?
About as much as Arizona's Secretary of State. Sheriff Joe's goon squad will get shot down just like all the rest.
| 14 |
Varek Raith Mon, May 21, 2012 11:25:59pm |
re: #12 It's a cookbook!
Wow...
Wow...
No thanks, Ma & Pa, there's really nothing you two have ever made or liked that really interests me at all, guys. Just that vial of Reagan blood. That's really important to me and means so much to me... so I can sell it.
Ok, just need the blood.
| 15 |
Four More Tears Mon, May 21, 2012 11:27:48pm |
re: #14 Varek Raith
Ok, just need the blood.
Mix it with the ashes of a signed Norquist pledge for maximum effect.
| 16 |
Kragar Mon, May 21, 2012 11:29:35pm |
| 17 |
Lidane Mon, May 21, 2012 11:30:29pm |
I can't believe we're destined for more of this shit:
Iowa GOP Convention To Vote On Language Questioning Obama’s ‘Natural Born’ Citizenship
"Fringe movement" my ass. Birtherism is the default in the GOP. It's the NON-birther Republicans that are the fringe.
| 18 |
Kragar Mon, May 21, 2012 11:32:21pm |
re: #17 Lidane
I can't believe we're destined for more of this shit:
Iowa GOP Convention To Vote On Language Questioning Obama’s ‘Natural Born’ Citizenship
"Fringe movement" my ass. Birtherism is the default in the GOP. It's the NON-birther Republicans that are the fringe.
There is no definition of Natural born citizen of the Constitution. Its only mentioned in the one sentence about qualifications for POTUS. They don't have a single leg to stand on.
| 19 |
Lidane Mon, May 21, 2012 11:33:45pm |
re: #18 Kragar
There is no definition of Natural born citizen of the Constitution. Its only mentioned in the one sentence about qualifications for POTUS. They don't have a single leg to stand on.
Not only that, but his mother was an American citizen. That ALONE makes him a natural born citizen. They always conveniently forget that part.
| 21 |
Kragar Mon, May 21, 2012 11:35:36pm |
re: #19 Lidane
Not only that, but his mother was an American citizen. That ALONE makes him a natural born citizen. They always conveniently forget that part.
They're really hung up on pure bloodlines.
| 22 |
Lidane Mon, May 21, 2012 11:50:47pm |
re: #21 Kragar
They're really hung up on pure bloodlines.
They're even more hung up on the White House being whites-only.
| 23 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Mon, May 21, 2012 11:54:07pm |
Next up: Joe Arpaio and his Cold Case Posse investigate the Nazi gas chambers!
"Don't take us wrong, we're not Holocaust deniers. But there are questions to be answered, and we'll investigate the issue thoroughly, whether liberals like it or not", said sheriff Arpaio, as his forensic experts were preparing their testing equipment.
"All those so-called released Nazi documents bear signatures of forgeries. This is disturbing, so we'll have to check everything for ourselves. You just can't trust those liberal New York historians, you know what I'm saying", Arpaio's right hand Mike Zullo said. WND's Joseph Farah praised the decision: "It's time to deal with the anti-Christian myth of the Holocaust so Israel can be even stronger".
| 24 |
dragonath Mon, May 21, 2012 11:59:57pm |
re: #21 Kragar
Bloodlines, you say?
Romney got tired of sucking the blood out of companies, now he needs real Reagan blood
| 25 |
Kragar Tue, May 22, 2012 12:06:15am |
re: #23 I'm back in the USSR (sigh)
Next up: Joe Arpaio and his Cold Case Posse investigate the Nazi gas chambers!
"Don't take us wrong, we're not Holocaust deniers. But there are questions to be answered, and we'll investigate the issue thoroughly, whether liberals like it or not", said sheriff Arpaio, as his forensic experts were preparing their testing equipment.
"All those so-called released Nazi documents bear signatures of forgeries. This is disturbing, so we'll have to check everything for ourselves. You just can't trust those liberal New York historians, you know what I'm saying", Arpaio's right hand Mike Zullo said. WND's Joseph Farah praised the decision: "It's time to deal with the anti-Christian myth of the Holocaust so Israel can be even stronger".
There is a pastor in NC they can hook up with.
| 26 |
freetoken Tue, May 22, 2012 12:08:04am |
Flux capacitor fixed on the old time machine... almost like new but location settings are still a bit tricky...
| 27 |
freetoken Tue, May 22, 2012 12:12:50am |
BTW, finally got from the library (after starting out on the waiting list at over #300) Stephen Kings "11/22/63" and finished it this afternoon.
My take: interesting in parts (and I can see a good screen play in there) but too long. It could be pared back to a good 200 page novella I think. The current writing is bogged down with King having to "hang a lantern" on the plot holes inherent with this type of sci-fi/fantasy, and with the change in reader's perspective from being omniscient to reading a diary.
| 29 |
Lidane Tue, May 22, 2012 12:20:33am |
The Jakarta situation is 2-fold: Indonesian authorities demand I censor the show & religious extremist separately, are threatening violence
— Lady Gaga (@ladygaga) May 22, 2012
If the show does go on as scheduled, I will perform the BTWBall alone.
— Lady Gaga (@ladygaga) May 22, 2012
| 30 |
EdDantes Tue, May 22, 2012 12:22:13am |
re: #27 freetoken
I have only finished one of Stephen Kings novels and I was disappointed when I was finished. He is the most long-winded author since Melville.
| 31 |
Sol Berdinowitz Tue, May 22, 2012 12:22:53am |
re: #28 Lidane
Some people just can't appreciate dance music:
Our religious fanatics have not reached the critical mass that they have in other parts of the world.
The police, ostensibly neutral, are simply caving on the premise that they "cannot guarantee security".
Others might see it that they are not willing or able to guanrantee the right of free assembly to the concert-goers, and have let themselves be intimidated by an armed mob.
| 32 |
Lidane Tue, May 22, 2012 12:27:10am |
re: #30 EdDantes
I have only finished one of Stephen Kings novels and I was disappointed when I was finished. He is the most long-winded author since Melville.
If you want long-winded mixed with lots of purple prose and twee, self-absorbed language, go with Anne Rice.
Long-winded, self-absorbed language, and shitty philosophy more your speed? Ayn Rand is available. Heh.
| 33 |
freetoken Tue, May 22, 2012 12:36:19am |
Changing time frame to 1969 ... location coordinate transformer still stuck though... here is the delightful Carmen Maki during her folk song period, with a couple of poems set to music:
A video with her from the early years is here.
| 34 |
EdDantes Tue, May 22, 2012 12:49:24am |
re: #32 Lidane
I read Interview With The Vampire in 1977 and was fascinated. I read almost one chapter of The Vampire Lestat and was bored to the point of considering becoming a vampire. Some authors are in love with the words pounded out on their typewriters/word processing software.
| 35 |
Kragar Tue, May 22, 2012 12:53:25am |
re: #34 EdDantes
I read Interview With The Vampire in 1977 and was fascinated. I read almost one chapter of The Vampire Lestat and was bored to the point of considering becoming a vampire. Some authors are in love with the words pounded out on their typewriters/word processing software.
For vampires, you really need to go with Brian Lumley. Swaps the efete pasty pansies for "OH GOD, IT ATE MY FACE".
| 38 |
freetoken Tue, May 22, 2012 1:03:38am |
re: #37 Purple Throbbing Standby
Lots of money. Will it pay off?
| 39 |
Four More Tears Tue, May 22, 2012 1:09:40am |
re: #35 Kragar
For vampires, you really need to go with Brian Lumley. Swaps the efete pasty pansies for "OH GOD, IT ATE MY FACE".
Oh dear god no. I was with him right up until the main character learns... what he learns. Trying to avoid spoilers here, but I'm talking about the impossible stuff. Uh... besides talking to dead people.
| 40 |
Kragar Tue, May 22, 2012 1:13:41am |
re: #39 It's a cookbook!
Oh dear god no. I was with him right up until the main character learns... what he learns. Trying to avoid spoilers here, but I'm talking about the impossible stuff. Uh... besides talking to dead people.
You never made it to the Vampire War part or Blood Brothers?
| 43 |
Four More Tears Tue, May 22, 2012 1:19:27am |
re: #40 Kragar
You never made it to the Vampire War part or Blood Brothers?
Nooo. I finished the first book. But, in my humble opinion, it was pretty bad.
| 44 |
Obdicut Tue, May 22, 2012 1:22:33am |
I'm heading up to Albany today to try to get the Freelancer Payment Protection Act passed. There will probably be about fifty of us, and we'll be able to meet with every state senator that's not a committed yes vote.
This is a good reminder of how small the number of people is that you need to affect political change, as long as they're willing to commit the time and the effort.
It's always also fascinating to meet the politicians. You definitely never leave a meeting thinking "Wow, what a humble guy."
| 45 |
Kragar Tue, May 22, 2012 1:23:44am |
re: #43 It's a cookbook!
Nooo. I finished the first book. But, in my humble opinion, it was pretty bad.
To each their own, even when they're WRONG!
/
| 46 |
EdDantes Tue, May 22, 2012 1:31:07am |
| 47 |
EdDantes Tue, May 22, 2012 1:34:27am |
re: #37 Purple Throbbing Standby
Isn't that private enterprise?
| 48 |
EdDantes Tue, May 22, 2012 2:20:51am |
Good night everyone. I do hope private enterprise is able to carry on our space program and make a buck out of it. It looks like that is our only space faring hope. If politics prevails we will be just spinning our wheels.
Be excellent to each other!
| 49 |
Sol Berdinowitz Tue, May 22, 2012 2:52:56am |
Money arrived just in time to meet car insurance payments...rent is still paritally overdue.
If you should write the book of my life, there's only one chapter you'll need: Chapter 11
| 50 |
Sol Berdinowitz Tue, May 22, 2012 3:09:11am |
| 52 |
Flounder Tue, May 22, 2012 4:26:29am |
Future Darwin award recipients:
[Link: www.timesunion.com...]
Good morning!
| 53 |
Decatur Deb Tue, May 22, 2012 4:40:14am |
re: #47 EdDantes
Isn't that private enterprise?
The gov't kicked in 381 million 'seed money' and governments are the monster customer, so yeah--Private Enterprise. Or were you punning on NCC-1701?
| 54 |
Vicious Babushka Tue, May 22, 2012 4:41:29am |
re: #32 Lidane
If you want long-winded mixed with lots of purple prose and twee, self-absorbed language, go with Anne Rice.
Long-winded, self-absorbed language, and shitty philosophy more your speed? Ayn Rand is available. Heh.
The only Anne Rice book I ever attempted to read was "Feast of All Saints" after I saw the movie. I loved the movie, could not finish reading the book Boring. As. Shit.
| 55 |
Decatur Deb Tue, May 22, 2012 4:44:20am |
re: #54 Learned Mother of Zion
The only Anne Rice book I ever attempted to read was "Feast of All Saints" after I saw the movie. I loved the movie, could not finish reading the book Boring. As. Shit.
There is a passage in "Cry to Heaven" where the countess plays while the castrato sings an aria.
Fist thought: "That's really powerful writing."
Second thought: "You're not supposed to notice the writing."
| 56 |
Vicious Babushka Tue, May 22, 2012 4:45:45am |
re: #55 Decatur Deb
There is a passage in "Cry to Heaven" where the countess plays while the castrato sings an aria.
Fist thought: "That's really powerful writing."
Second thought: "You're not supposed to notice the writing."
Anne Rice's writing is so boring, even the sex scenes are boring.
| 57 |
Sol Berdinowitz Tue, May 22, 2012 4:47:31am |
re: #56 Learned Mother of Zion
Anne Rice's writing is so boring, even the sex scenes are boring.
soundls like my marriage...
| 58 |
Decatur Deb Tue, May 22, 2012 4:47:58am |
re: #56 Learned Mother of Zion
Anne Rice's writing is so boring, even the sex scenes are boring.
She should leave her psyche to science.
| 60 |
freetoken Tue, May 22, 2012 5:25:56am |
I see that the IDiots are now into promoting blogs that support openly racist websites.
At both the evolutionnews.org site and the uncommondescent.com site articles are published praising, and seconding, the writings of one James Barham:
Confessions of an Atheist Darwin-Doubter
Since Mr. Barham is apparently not a confessional religious type, and rejects Evolution as generally understood, the IDiots are running with his postings in order to prove something or other about how religious Darwinism is, or something to that effect, and how open minded they are, etc. The IDiots have been running postings from Barham starting this year, it seems.
Anyway, Mr. Barham runs a site called thebestschools.org, where he gets to rant about all sorts of stuff... such as the evils of environmentalism. And, of course, the oppressive religion of Darwinism. However, he also ventures into other areas of social comment, and not long ago wrote up a glowing recommendation for one Fred Reed.
If you don't know who Fred Reed is (and you're probably better off in your life without Mr. Reed), he is a favorite of .... a certain Mr. Derbyshire.
In fact, Reed is a favorite with many racists, because Mr. Reed is well known for not feeling inhibited by political correctness when discussing his feelings about other races (to put it euphemistically.)
If you check out Mr. Barham's website the topics will be familiar to those with experience searching through (non-theist) wingnut blogs.
He's also disingenuous. In one article he wrote, he clearly states:
The whole problem with the abortion debate is that secular liberals take refuge in platitudes and refuse to face up to the reality of abortion. Is it really too much to ask of a woman that she listen to her child’s heartbeat and see its image in a sonogram, before she decides to authorize its dismemberment? Better ask: How could her consent possibly be informed if she does not have the opportunity of doing these things?
Of course, sonograms and fetal heartbeats are only small steps toward facilitating what is truly needed. And that is a revolution of courage in the hearts of all Americans.
Abortion will not end until women and their doctors both acquire the courage to confront the concrete results of their theoretical decisions. Once men and women stop averting their eyes, and actually look into the abortionist’s bucket, this barbaric practice cannot long endure.
Which is pretty classic anti-abortion stance... except for a supposed atheist. He argues (in other posts) that his (Western) moral sense is derived from non-religious thinking, but that is not quite honest. He has written before that humans have "spirits" (even if he doesn't assign that term the same meaning most Christians would.)
And so on.
Anyway, the IDiots just continue to deceive, and now they are tapping into the non-theist reactionary right to prop up their industry.
| 61 |
RadicalModerate Tue, May 22, 2012 5:35:26am |
This one takes the cake for what may be one of the weirdest stories of the day, if for no other reason than the business involved.
Curvy Manhattan Lingerie Store Worker Says She Was Fired For Being ‘Too Hot’
NEW YORK (CBSNewYork) — Fired for being too hot?
That is precisely what a woman who worked at a Fifth Avenue lingerie store claims happened to her.
Lauren Odes, a curvy 29-year-old, said she was working at Native Intimates in the Garment District when one day her supervisor claimed the male Orthodox Jewish owners weren’t comfortable with her attire.
I'm not questioning the owner's right to own and operate this type of business, but I really have to ask myself about the mindset involved from a business model standpoint. I mean, I really don't see a huge demand here from what would have to be their targeted clientele.
| 62 |
Vicious Babushka Tue, May 22, 2012 5:37:06am |
re: #61 RadicalModerate
This one takes the cake for what may be one of the weirdest stories of the day, if for no other reason than the business involved.
Curvy Manhattan Lingerie Store Worker Says She Was Fired For Being ‘Too Hot’
I'm not questioning the owner's right to own and operate this type of business, but I really have to ask myself about the mindset involved from a business model standpoint. I mean, I really don't see a huge demand here from what would have to be their targeted clientele.
Yeah, my daughter buys her underwear at Victoria's Secret.
| 63 |
dragonfire1981 Tue, May 22, 2012 5:41:08am |
re: #61 RadicalModerate
This one takes the cake for what may be one of the weirdest stories of the day, if for no other reason than the business involved.
Curvy Manhattan Lingerie Store Worker Says She Was Fired For Being ‘Too Hot’
I'm not questioning the owner's right to own and operate this type of business, but I really have to ask myself about the mindset involved from a business model standpoint. I mean, I really don't see a huge demand here from what would have to be their targeted clientele.
I am surprised that type of business would have Othodox Jewish owners in the first place.
I wouldn't worry about the girl. If she really looks that good she'll get a new gig fast.
| 64 |
Vicious Babushka Tue, May 22, 2012 5:42:37am |
re: #63 dragonfire1981
I am surprised that type of business would have Othodox Jewish owners in the first place.
I wouldn't worry about the girl. If she really looks that good she'll get a new gig fast.
My guess is that it is a wholesale business, not a retail store, although they may have some walk-in business.
| 65 |
Flounder Tue, May 22, 2012 5:46:46am |
re: #61 RadicalModerate
More info:
[Link: www.nypost.com...]
| 66 |
Vicious Babushka Tue, May 22, 2012 5:51:57am |
re: #65 Tommy's cone of shame
More info:
[Link: www.nypost.com...]
OK a few comments:
1. She was hired as a temp data entry clerk, not to model and sell underwear to customers.
2. Businesses may require employees to adhere to a dress code.
3. Gloria Allred has become involved. I don't see where anyone's civil rights have been violated.
| 67 |
Flounder Tue, May 22, 2012 5:56:41am |
re: #66 Learned Mother of Zion
I think she is just hiding two puppies in her blouse.
| 68 |
Vicious Babushka Tue, May 22, 2012 5:59:57am |
re: #67 Tommy's cone of shame
I think she is just hiding two puppies in her blouse.
Rottweilers from the size of 'em.
| 70 |
RadicalModerate Tue, May 22, 2012 6:04:42am |
re: #66 Learned Mother of Zion
OK a few comments:
1. She was hired as a temp data entry clerk, not to model and sell underwear to customers.
2. Businesses may require employees to adhere to a dress code.
3. Gloria Allred has become involved. I don't see where anyone's civil rights have been violated.
A few observations after reading the Post article, as well as seeing some of the photos of the supposed "inappropriate" clothing.
The dress she was wearing was relatively form-fitting, but not a "clingy" style by any means. Also, she showed no cleavage, and the dress was knee-length. This dress was entirely business-appropriate.
Secondly, the fact that she was told to tape up her breasts, because they were too big and then forced her to wear a bathrobe is flat-out harassment.
Finally, I have no problem whatsoever with her having Gloria Allred representing her. Allred is the top attorney in the country, bar none, when it comes to women's rights issues. She does grandstand by picking up high-profile cases, but her track record is absolutely stellar.
| 71 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, May 22, 2012 6:05:45am |
Good morning all. Back online after being up North for a long weekend getting our new rental ready & buying a new bed set at Ikea. Still got the "big" more to do in June before the foreclosure finishes but it's a little easier when you've had a chance to see where you'll be and plan accordingly. At least I'll finally have a bench in a dry basement to set up my reloading press.
Any really interesting stories since late Thursday afternoon I should go back and look at? Or is it the usual RWNJ idiocracy moments?
| 72 |
Interesting Times Tue, May 22, 2012 6:33:38am |
re: #71 William Barnett-Lewis
Oh good, you're back - I wanted to tell you about this! (though you probably know already):
Want to win the WI Recall? Make sure this story goes as wide as humanly possible
Fortunately Scott Walker has just handed us just such a wedge on a sliver platter in his appointment of Dr. James Kroll as the State's "deer Czar". You see Dr. Kroll considers allowing hunters to hunt for free on state-managed game lands, "the last bastion of communism" and want to do away with it altogether.
...
There are a lot of lower-middle and lower income people, especially in rural areas for whom successfully "shooting for the table", or freezer can make all the difference in their family's food security for that winter, or even over the whole year. The 50-75 lbs of usable meet that a good-sized deer will yield goes a very long way to making up for the protein deficit many of these hunter's families might otherwise face.
...
Therefore anything that threatens that tradition or looks like it might take it away entirely, is likely to put them "up in arms", almost literally.
| 73 |
lawhawk Tue, May 22, 2012 6:36:35am |
re: #69 Decatur Deb
Well, Space X did successfully launch the Falcon rocket and Dragon capsule to space this morning. In a few days, it should dock with the ISS, and begin a new era of space exploration/travel as private companies take over a role for the US that was previously the sole domain of NASA.
I'd say that's huge news.
| 74 |
Interesting Times Tue, May 22, 2012 6:37:48am |
URGENT ANYONE HAVE EMAIL ADDRESS FOR SPACEX NEED HELP LAUNCHING ROCKET CONTACT ME ON MYSPACE KTHXBYE— KimJongNumberUn (@KimJongNumberUn) May 22, 2012
| 76 |
lawhawk Tue, May 22, 2012 6:42:24am |
re: #70 RadicalModerate
She recently took up the case of another client who had a similar set of claims - that she was fired because she was too sexy for the job at Citibank. Apparently Allred dropped her as a client and Allred was playing to the media, rather than taking the client's case through to a proper conclusion.
Mind you, Allred disputes those claims:
“Due to our legal obligations as attorneys we were required to withdraw,” her statement read, noting that “ethical obligations” bar her from dishing about why lawyer and client parted ways.
“However, suffice it to say that we and our New York co-counsel felt that we had no choice other than to withdraw,” she added.
“We did everything that we could to help her, and the many boxes of documents containing our work product and the evidence that we worked to obtain prove that we did everything that we could.”
Lorenzana also referenced boxes filled with legal papers — the result of her own work after she was forced to learn the law on the fly after the split.
“I ended up fighting Citibank on my own,” she said. “It was torture.”
Lorenzana declined to discuss the specifics of the arbitration session, but said she spent many sleepless nights rifling through documents to prove her case, which is now closed.
“I learned my lesson,” she said.
Women should not be fired for their figure or attire if it falls within stated company policies as both of these women have claimed. They should not be harrassed for the same. At the same time, it seems that Allred may have engaged in grandstanding rather than taking the case through to completion.
| 77 |
Killgore Trout Tue, May 22, 2012 6:46:14am |
re: #73 lawhawk
Well, Space X did successfully launch the Falcon rocket and Dragon capsule to space this morning. In a few days, it should dock with the ISS, and begin a new era of space exploration/travel as private companies take over a role for the US that was previously the sole domain of NASA.
I'd say that's huge news.
It is going to be interesting to see what develops. We made it to the moon in 68 but aside from the now defunct shuttle program and the space station there hasn't been a whole lot of progress in space travel. I do hope the private sector can speed up innovation.
| 79 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, May 22, 2012 6:49:35am |
re: #28 Lidane
Some people just can't appreciate dance music:
Gaga's fb post:
The Jakarta situation is 2-fold: Indonesian authorities demand I censor the show & religious extremist separately, are threatening violence. If the show does go on as scheduled, I will perform the BTWBall alone.
morning all!
| 80 |
lawhawk Tue, May 22, 2012 6:49:48am |
Timeline keeps on slipping.. slipping... into the future. Facebook keeps on slipping slipping... as investors pile on the losses as FB is down another 6% in early morning trading.
So, if you were pissed off at your brokerage that you couldn't get in on the IPO, thank your lucky stars that you're now able to get it at a more reasonable price (though I think it's going to drop to around the mid 20s before finding support based on actual revenues and profits going forward). Watch for lawsuits to fly too over how NASDAQ handled the IPO and the mess it made of trading when the stock was first listed.
| 81 |
Gus Tue, May 22, 2012 6:50:07am |
re: #80 lawhawk
Timeline keeps on slipping.. slipping... into the future. Facebook keeps on slipping slipping... as investors pile on the losses as FB is down another 6% in early morning trading.
So, if you were pissed off at your brokerage that you couldn't get in on the IPO, thank your lucky stars that you're now able to get it at a more reasonable price (though I think it's going to drop to around the mid 20s before finding support based on actual revenues and profits going forward). Watch for lawsuits to fly too over how NASDAQ handled the IPO and the mess it made of trading when the stock was first listed.
Bummer man.
//
| 82 |
alpuz Tue, May 22, 2012 6:50:26am |
re: #72 Interesting Times
The GOP has been running 'Barrett will take away your guns & freedom' ads for a couple of weeks here in West-Central Wisconsin. They also have huge pro-Walker signs littered along highway 29, which splits the northern half of the state. There's a ton of money being spent up here to keep Walker in office.
| 83 |
Decatur Deb Tue, May 22, 2012 6:52:12am |
re: #73 lawhawk
Well, Space X did successfully launch the Falcon rocket and Dragon capsule to space this morning. In a few days, it should dock with the ISS, and begin a new era of space exploration/travel as private companies take over a role for the US that was previously the sole domain of NASA.
I'd say that's huge news.
Is it as big as the racks in the garment district?
| 84 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, May 22, 2012 6:54:45am |
re: #76 lawhawk
She recently took up the case of another client who had a similar set of claims - that she was fired because she was too sexy for the job at Citibank. Apparently Allred dropped her as a client and Allred was playing to the media, rather than taking the client's case through to a proper conclusion.
Mind you, Allred disputes those claims:
Women should not be fired for their figure or attire if it falls within stated company policies as both of these women have claimed. They should not be harrassed for the same. At the same time, it seems that Allred may have engaged in grandstanding rather than taking the case through to completion.
I can tell you that it is very difficult if not impossible for curvy women to find clothing that a) fits and b) doesn't make you look pregnant or fat everywhere else. People need to get over it.
| 85 |
Decatur Deb Tue, May 22, 2012 6:56:01am |
re: #84 ggt
I can tell you that it is very difficult if not impossible for curvy women to find clothing that a) fits and b) doesn't make you look pregnant or fat everywhere else. People need to get over it.
Occupy Bloomie's.
| 86 |
Interesting Times Tue, May 22, 2012 7:01:16am |
re: #82 alpuz
The GOP has been running 'Barrett will take away your guns & freedom' ads for a couple of weeks here in West-Central Wisconsin. They also have huge pro-Walker signs littered along highway 29, which splits the northern half of the state. There's a ton of money being spent up here to keep Walker in office.
I know, and that's why it's of vital importance to American democracy's future that dopey-eyed corporatist Walker loses (otherwise it's a huge green light to the Kochs, Foster Friess, Adelson, and other robber-barons that they can buy any election they want)
| 87 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, May 22, 2012 7:02:56am |
re: #85 Decatur Deb
Occupy Bloomie's.
The point being that if a curvy women wants to show that she, does indeed, have a waist --there are people who will think she is dressing inappropriately.
Not a whole lot Boomies can do about it.
People need to get over their inability to deal with curvy women!
| 88 |
Decatur Deb Tue, May 22, 2012 7:04:17am |
re: #86 Interesting Times
I know, and that's why it's of vital importance to American democracy's future that he loses (otherwise it's a huge green light to the Kochs, Foster Friess, Adelson, and other robber-barons that they can buy any election they want)
Better have a Plan B. Intrade has fled his way, even after his last set of unfavorable polls. Looks like the bastards are going to win this one.
| 89 |
Vicious Babushka Tue, May 22, 2012 7:04:29am |
re: #87 ggt
The point being that if a curvy women wants to show that she, does indeed, have a waist --there are people who will think she is dressing inappropriately.
Not a whole lot Boomies can do about it.
People need to get over their inability to deal with curvy women!
Designers do not design clothes for curvy women, they design for anorexics.
| 90 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Tue, May 22, 2012 7:05:07am |
re: #87 ggt
The point being that if a curvy women wants to show that she, does indeed, have a waist --there are people who will think she is dressing inappropriately.
Not a whole lot Boomies can do about it.
People need to get over their inability to deal with curvy women!
The Mrs. Fish is a very curvy woman, so I know where you're coming from.
| 91 |
Interesting Times Tue, May 22, 2012 7:06:40am |
| 92 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, May 22, 2012 7:07:03am |
re: #89 Learned Mother of Zion
Designers do not design clothes for curvy women, they design for anorexics.
part of it is the nature of the "beasties". Showing off curves is, to some people, too sexual. When wanting to have clothes that fit means you are dressed inappropriately, there is a problem.
| 93 |
Buck Tue, May 22, 2012 7:09:05am |
re: #86 Interesting Times
It's of vital importance to American democracy's future that Walker stays. He already won the actual election, fair and square. Otherwise it's a huge green light to the Unions that they can pay to change the results of an election and buy their candidates a redo in any election they want.
| 94 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, May 22, 2012 7:09:58am |
“This isn’t a religious or political issue – it’s a medical issue, and that’s where we should keep it,” said Richards. “Planned Parenthood remains steadfast in its commitment to protecting women’s access to preventive health services, including birth control, and we will work to ensure that no woman has to worry about how she will afford her next birth control prescription.”
Doctors and public health experts agree that birth control is a basic and essential component of women’s preventive health care, and 34 percent of women voters report having struggled to afford prescription birth control at some point in their lives and, as a result, used birth control inconsistently. That figure rises dramatically to 55 percent of women aged 18-34.
| 96 |
Decatur Deb Tue, May 22, 2012 7:10:36am |
re: #91 Interesting Times
What do you suggest? :/
Find marginal situations where increased effort can win the battle. This Fall I'm not donating to or working for any Alabama Dems. I'll spend some time at my kid's place in FL, helping with GOTV (as much as the new voter suppression laws allow). All my support money is going straight to Obama. Support for Elizabeth Warren also looks like it would give good national return.
| 97 |
Eventual Carrion Tue, May 22, 2012 7:11:25am |
re: #93 Buck
It's of vital importance to American democracy's future that Walker stays. He already won the actual election, fair and square. Otherwise it's a huge green light to the Unions that they can pay to change the results of an election and buy their candidates a redo in any election they want.
Sure thing there Buck, concern duly noted. Why don't you get on that Obama impeachment now.
| 98 |
Gus Tue, May 22, 2012 7:11:28am |
re: #93 Buck
It's of vital importance to American democracy's future that Walker stays. He already won the actual election, fair and square. Otherwise it's a huge green light to the Unions that they can pay to change the results of an election and buy their candidates a redo in any election they want.
That's hilarious. Did you write that yourself or is that from The Onion?
| 99 |
Buck Tue, May 22, 2012 7:12:19am |
re: #97 RayFerd
Sure thing there Buck, concern duly noted. Why don't you get on that Obama impeachment now.
See? That would exactly the opposite of what I said.
| 100 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Tue, May 22, 2012 7:12:26am |
re: #93 Buck
It's of vital importance to American democracy's future that Walker stays. He already won the actual election, fair and square. Otherwise it's a huge green light to the Unions that they can pay to change the results of an election and buy their candidates a redo in any election they want.
Wait, are you actually serious?
| 101 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, May 22, 2012 7:12:27am |
I love how everything from the Whacko's is "of vital importance to the nation" or "essential to preserve the American Way of Life"
you get my drift.
| 102 |
Eventual Carrion Tue, May 22, 2012 7:13:18am |
re: #99 Buck
See? That would exactly the opposite of what I said.
Ahnd I am sure you would support it, exactly opposite of what you said. Get it?
| 103 |
Buck Tue, May 22, 2012 7:13:22am |
re: #101 ggt
I love how everything from the Whacko's is "of vital importance to the nation" or "essential to preserve the American Way of Life"
you get my drift.
I was using the phrase from Interesting Times #86
| 104 |
Buck Tue, May 22, 2012 7:13:51am |
re: #102 RayFerd
Ahnd I am sure you would support it, exactly opposite of what you said. Get it?
Well if you would be sure, then you would be wrong.
| 105 |
Interesting Times Tue, May 22, 2012 7:14:27am |
re: #97 RayFerd
Sure thing there Buck, concern duly noted. Why don't you get on that Obama impeachment now.
Right after he finishes cheering for a cruel, nasty bigot who took away the rights of same-sex couples to visit each other in hospital.
| 106 |
Gus Tue, May 22, 2012 7:14:55am |
It's of vital importance to American democracy's future that Walker stays. He already won the actual election, fair and square. Otherwise it's a huge green light to the Communists that they can pay to change the results of an election and buy their candidates a redo in any election they want.
| 107 |
Buck Tue, May 22, 2012 7:15:17am |
re: #105 Interesting Times
Now you are just making shit up. I cheered that? Where?
| 108 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, May 22, 2012 7:15:48am |
Yep, the Communists are coming! The Communists are coming!
Chicken Little Politics.
| 109 |
Buck Tue, May 22, 2012 7:16:50am |
re: #108 ggt
Yep, the Communists are coming! The Communists are coming!
Chicken Little Politics.
Yes, exactly like fearing "the Kochs, Foster Friess, Adelson, and other robber-barons"...
| 110 |
Killgore Trout Tue, May 22, 2012 7:16:53am |
An interesting theory....
Inside Job: Facebook I.P.O. Shows System Is Broken
Long story short: Institutional investors have been investing money in Facebook for a while now. They've made their profits already. The public IPO may just be a mechanism for the corporate investors to dump their stock (or as much of it as they can) on the public before the company goes into decline.
| 111 |
HappyWarrior Tue, May 22, 2012 7:17:14am |
I have to admit to not being big on recalls personally but here's the catch. Wisconsin's legislature approved a recall law way back when and then those who wanted to recall Walker got enough signatures to do initiate this electio California's Democratic process wasn't ruined when Schwartznagger beat Davis in 2002 during that state's recall election.
| 112 |
Interesting Times Tue, May 22, 2012 7:17:26am |
re: #108 ggt
Yep, the Communists are coming! The Communists are coming!
Chicken Little Politics.
Worse than that - "boy who cried wolf" politics that prevents dealing with the actual wolf.
Durr hurr, Walker is outspending Barrett 25-to-1, but it's dem yoooniuns we need to be a-scared of. Derp.
| 115 |
Vicious Babushka Tue, May 22, 2012 7:20:30am |
re: #93 Buck
It's of vital importance to American democracy's future that Walker stays. He already won the actual election, fair and square. Otherwise it's a huge green light to the Unions that they can pay to change the results of an election and buy their candidates a redo in any election they want.
UAW selling off GM shares, bonds, just to stay afloat.
(Reuters) - The United Auto Workers aims to break even by mid-2014, as the American union looks to bolster its political and bargaining clout.
For the past five years, the UAW has relied heavily on selling its war chest of stocks, bonds and property to bridge the gap between its annual funding and costs.
The union believes this approach is untenable in the long run and its goal is to "have it turned around" in two years by adding members and managing costs, UAW President Bob King said in an interview on Friday.
"We are going to be at break-even or beginning to again accumulate resources beyond that" by the UAW's next convention in June 2014, King told the Thomson Reuters editorial board.
Under UAW Secretary-Treasurer Dennis Williams, the union has improved the way it manages costs, King said. Organizing more dues-paying members will help the UAW turn around its finances.
King declined to comment on the rate at which the union is losing money.
| 116 |
Gus Tue, May 22, 2012 7:20:40am |
re: #114 Buck
And the best you have is name calling?
Yep. I have nothing to debate here. You're just spewing out wingnut talking points and I'm just watching.
| 117 |
SidewaysQuark Tue, May 22, 2012 7:20:49am |
re: #1 mattand
Just read the comment section over at the WND post about Sherrif Joe sending his goon squad to HI. Man, was that a mistake.
Logging into WND at all is a mistake if you value your brain cells.
| 118 |
Interesting Times Tue, May 22, 2012 7:20:53am |
re: #113 Gus
Wingnut.
Worst Governor Ever Stripped Same Sex Couples of Right to Visit Each Other in the Hospital
Just last week, on the eve of a holiday weekend, the jerk of the north signed into laws limiting abortion, repealing the state’s equal pay law, and weakening sex education all cowardly-like, with nary a peep to the public. But he’s been leading the gubernatorial Race to Act Like A Huge Jerk for awhile with this cruel, hateful move to limit family hospital visits
Cheer for Walker, cheer for the above.
| 119 |
RogueOne Tue, May 22, 2012 7:21:11am |
re: #105 Interesting Times
Right after he finishes cheering for a cruel, nasty bigot who took away the rights of same-sex couples to visit each other in hospital.
That story was shot down last year. You could argue that he "tried" to take the right away but that wouldn't be accurate either. He chose not to defend the state in a lawsuit over the state law that allowed it. Sort of like the Prez deciding not to defend the DOMA.
For what it's worth, I don't like the President or Walkers stance on either issue. You're the head of state, it's your job to defend the laws on the books regardless of your personal views. If they think it's a lousy law then work to change it through the legislature.
| 120 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, May 22, 2012 7:21:38am |
| 121 |
lawhawk Tue, May 22, 2012 7:22:13am |
re: #93 Buck
You do know that recall is a democratic election procedure in Wisconsin to deal with elected officials who have engaged in actions that are deemed by the same voters as beyond that official's mandate.
It's not an affront to democracy; it's an extension of the same democratic procedures.
At the same time, while you point fingers at the unions for trying to protect themselves from the assault on collective bargaining, you ignore all the money being funneled into the race by GOP bigwigs and from those outside the state to alter the outcome of the race in their favor.
| 122 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, May 22, 2012 7:22:53am |
re: #118 Interesting Times
Worst Governor Ever Stripped Same Sex Couples of Right to Visit Each Other in the Hospital
Cheer for Walker, cheer for the above.
Has a lot to do with fixing the State's economy --strange that.
| 123 |
Buck Tue, May 22, 2012 7:26:01am |
re: #121 lawhawk
At the same time, while you point fingers at the unions for trying to protect themselves from the assault on collective bargaining, you ignore all the money being funneled into the race by GOP bigwigs and from those outside the state to alter the outcome of the race in their favor.
Just the opposite Law. I was responding to a post that was ignoring all the money being funneled into the race by Unions (both inside and outside the states). My post was worded in a similar way, on purpose to show that balance you are pointing out.
| 124 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, May 22, 2012 7:26:11am |
The Curious Timing of Mark Zuckerberg's Wedding
As you probably know by now, Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg married his college sweetheart, Priscilla Chan, this weekend; just one day after becoming a billionaire 19 times over. The surprise backyard ceremony also happened to take place just days after she graduated from medical school, providing the perfect opportunity for the couple to officially launch the next chapter of their lives together. It was all very cute and romantic until everyone — including The New York Times — noticed that by waiting until the day after cashing in his fortune, Zuckerberg conveniently protected his billions from California's communal property law.
people are strange
| 125 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, May 22, 2012 7:27:31am |
North Carolina Pastor: Trap Gays and Lesbians Behind Electrified Fences
It's hard to tell what's more digusting: That Rev. Charles Worley of North Carolina is preaching about rounding up gays and lesbians and putting them behind an electrified fence to die out, or the fact that he has a congregation cheering him on.
"Build a great, big, large fence — 150- or 100-mile long — put all the lesbians in there . . . do the same thing for the queers and the homosexuals, and have that fence electrified so they can’t get out," said Worley in a May 13 sermon hate speech that was posted on YouTube yesterday (the gross video is below). "Feed ’em, and you know what...In a few years they’ll die. Do you know why? They can’t reproduce."
Nice example of what Jesus would not do.
| 126 |
lawhawk Tue, May 22, 2012 7:28:01am |
re: #94 ggt
The Church's opposition to the inclusion of contraceptives in their insurance policies for their employees ignores the fact that it is the employees' rights that are at stake here - not the Church. The employees have a right to have contraceptives offered through their insurance plans - and this highlights one of many problems with employer-sponsored health insurance plans.
The Church gains certain benefits from offering health insurance, and the employees may not share the Church's doctrine view on contraception. Not all employees follow Church doctrine (or are even members of the Church or even the same religion as in the case of some university employees at places like Notre Dame or Fordham).
So, while the Church would be required to provide the coverage, nothing stops anyone from not actually using it (employees can choose not to utilize the contraceptive coverage).
| 127 |
Decatur Deb Tue, May 22, 2012 7:28:16am |
re: #125 ggt
North Carolina Pastor: Trap Gays and Lesbians Behind Electrified Fences
Nice example of what Jesus would not do.
Parable of the Razor Wire.
| 128 |
Vicious Babushka Tue, May 22, 2012 7:28:17am |
re: #123 Buck
Just the opposite Law. I was responding to a post that was ignoring all the money being funneled into the race by Unions (both inside and outside the states). My post was worded in a similar way, on purpose to show that balance you are pointing out.
The Unions (UAW in particular) can barely pay their own expenses, much less "buy" elections.
| 129 |
HappyWarrior Tue, May 22, 2012 7:28:29am |
re: #125 ggt
North Carolina Pastor: Trap Gays and Lesbians Behind Electrified Fences
Nice example of what Jesus would not do.
It's pretty pathetic that this mindset exists in 2012. And hateful dicks like this guy think they're the victims.
| 130 |
Gus Tue, May 22, 2012 7:30:34am |
Republican Iowa Governor Appoints Catholic Priest To State Medical Board adf.ly/8p9wg #SkyRSSNetwork— Think Progess Feed (@ThinkProgressFD) May 22, 2012
| 131 |
Buck Tue, May 22, 2012 7:31:02am |
re: #128 Learned Mother of Zion
The Unions (UAW in particular) can barely pay their own expenses, much less "buy" elections.
Are you saying that Unions are not spending millions of dollars on this recall? It might be true that they can't "afford it", but that doesn't mean they are not doing it anyway.
| 132 |
lawhawk Tue, May 22, 2012 7:31:14am |
re: #128 Learned Mother of Zion
The one area in which they are effective is that unions can organize fairly effectively to GOTV. Many don't have deep pockets to mount ad campaigns that can sway voters outside of the union. So, their GOTV is potentially more than offset by the money that can sway elections against the unions.
| 133 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, May 22, 2012 7:31:21am |
re: #72 Interesting Times
Oh good, you're back - I wanted to tell you about this! (though you probably know already):
Want to win the WI Recall? Make sure this story goes as wide as humanly possible
Thanks. I took a bit of time and began passing it around. This might be the one thing that would tip a good friend of mine against Walker.
| 134 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, May 22, 2012 7:31:36am |
Black undercount found in 1940 census recordsNEW YORK — It was on the streets of her Harlem neighborhood in the 1940s that teenager Althea Gibson began working on the tennis skills that would take her all the way to winning Wimbledon.
But according to the 1940 census, the trailblazing athlete didn't even exist.
There's no record of Gibson and her family in the decennial census, the records of which were released online to the public April 2 by the U.S. National Archives after a 72-year confidentiality period lapsed.
She and her family aren't the only ones — more than a million black people weren't accounted for in 1940, an undercount that had ramifications at the time on everything from the political map to the distribution of resources.
It also had an impact on the Census Bureau itself, the agency said, leading to efforts that continue to this day as it counts people every decade, to assess how well it managed to count people and to determine what could be done to improve. An analysis of the 2010 Census' efficacy is being released May 22.
The undercount estimate has generally gone down, but it's always been disproportionately higher for blacks than nonblacks.
| 135 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, May 22, 2012 7:33:00am |
re: #126 lawhawk
The Church's opposition to the inclusion of contraceptives in their insurance policies for their employees ignores the fact that it is the employees' rights that are at stake here - not the Church. The employees have a right to have contraceptives offered through their insurance plans - and this highlights one of many problems with employer-sponsored health insurance plans.
The Church gains certain benefits from offering health insurance, and the employees may not share the Church's doctrine view on contraception. Not all employees follow Church doctrine (or are even members of the Church or even the same religion as in the case of some university employees at places like Notre Dame or Fordham).
So, while the Church would be required to provide the coverage, nothing stops anyone from not actually using it (employees can choose not to utilize the contraceptive coverage).
Strange that in 2012, all the sudden, Churches are using "religious rights" to oppress.
| 136 |
RogueOne Tue, May 22, 2012 7:33:17am |
This fucking blows. They just found my best friend dead. Wow. I just hooked up with him last weekend. I'm stunned.
| 137 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, May 22, 2012 7:33:36am |
re: #93 Buck
No. He won by lying and by cheating (see Waukesha County) and this is the consequence for the little tinhorn dictator.
| 138 |
Lidane Tue, May 22, 2012 7:33:58am |
re: #130 Gus
No surprise. This is the same state where the Republicans are making birtherism part of their platform.
| 139 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, May 22, 2012 7:33:59am |
re: #136 RogueOne
This fucking blows. They just found my best friend dead. Wow. I just hooked up with him last weekend. I'm stunned.
(((((RogueOne)))))
| 140 |
Killgore Trout Tue, May 22, 2012 7:34:01am |
re: #136 RogueOne
This fucking blows. They just found my best friend dead. Wow. I just hooked up with him last weekend. I'm stunned.
Damn, sorry to hear that.
| 141 |
lawhawk Tue, May 22, 2012 7:34:04am |
re: #136 RogueOne
My condolences, thoughts, and prayers are with you and your friend's family.
| 142 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, May 22, 2012 7:34:58am |
| 143 |
HappyWarrior Tue, May 22, 2012 7:35:08am |
re: #136 RogueOne
This fucking blows. They just found my best friend dead. Wow. I just hooked up with him last weekend. I'm stunned.
That's terrible man. Thoughts to you and your friend's family.
| 144 |
Interesting Times Tue, May 22, 2012 7:35:33am |
re: #119 RogueOne
That story was shot down last year. You could argue that he "tried" to take the right away but that wouldn't be accurate either.
Well, that commie pinko publication Forbes seems to think so:
Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker to Prevent Same-Sex Couples Hospital Visitation Rights
Gov. Scott Walker believes a new law that gives gay couples hospital visitation rights violates the state constitution and has asked a judge to allow the state to stop defending it.
...
Republican Attorney General J.B. Van Hollen refused to defend the lawsuit, saying he agreed the new law violated the state constitution. Then-Gov. Jim Doyle, a Democrat, hired Madison attorney Lester Pines to defend the state.Walker, a Republican, replaced Doyle in January and fired Pines in March. On Friday, Walker filed a motion to stop defending the case.
And we still have this:
Scott Walker’s Latest Anti-Women, Anti-Worker Attacks Are Now Law
Wisconsin Republican Governor Scott Walker on Good Friday night signed several evil anti-women, anti-worker, and even anti-children bills into law. The bills include a repeal of workers’ rights to sue, a bill mandating only abstinence-only sex education, a law that places new state limits on abortion.
The mere fact that Walker signed these bills into law quietly, late on Good Friday, as the holiday weekend had already begun, speaks volumes.
Walker = cowardly, evil creep.
| 145 |
Lidane Tue, May 22, 2012 7:35:49am |
re: #136 RogueOne
Damn. I'm sorry to hear that. My condolences to you and to his family.
| 146 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, May 22, 2012 7:36:09am |
re: #137 William Barnett-Lewis
No. He won by lying and by cheating (see Waukesha County) and this is the consequence for the little tinhorn dictator.
reminds me --word of the day from my email:
A.Word.A.Day
with Anu Gargtin god
PRONUNCIATION:
(tin god)MEANING:
noun:
1. A pompous, self-important person.
2. A person who regards himself or herself as infallible and tries to dictate standards of behavior or beliefs.ETYMOLOGY:
From a reference to tin as a base metal compared to precious metals; in other words, petty or worthless. Earliest documented use: before 1880. A tin god may or may not have a tin ear.
| 148 |
Gus Tue, May 22, 2012 7:37:56am |
Arizona's birther Sec of State is one of the co-chairs of Romney's campaign in Arizona: tpm.ly/Jznkt3— Talking Points Memo (@TPM) May 22, 2012
| 149 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, May 22, 2012 7:39:21am |
Why do the birds always sound so freakin' cheerful in the morning?
| 150 |
Gus Tue, May 22, 2012 7:39:46am |
American Census Shocker Part II: Interview with a minority baby
by LALO ALCARAZ on MAY 22, 2012 in EL NOW
Non-white births now make up a majority of all births in the United States and racist anti-immigrants are pooping mad. The most elder of them, Phyllis Schlafly, an ancient anti-feminist relic, has actually come out of her dusty display case and made a pronouncement through her right-wing conservative group, The Eagle Forum, decrying the surge of unpatriotic minority babies. From their website...
| 151 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Tue, May 22, 2012 7:40:37am |
re: #136 RogueOne
I'm sorry to hear that. My prayers are with you and with his family.
| 152 |
Gus Tue, May 22, 2012 7:41:06am |
LOL ... Bruce Willis: Romney's 'an embarrassment'politi.co/JD2cro— TheRittenbergReport (@TheRReport) May 22, 2012
| 153 |
Lidane Tue, May 22, 2012 7:41:37am |
re: #148 Gus
And he got gloriously shot down by Hawaii, too. Just like Sheriff Joe's goons will be sent packing.
I will always love the Hawaiian officials demanding proof that the Arizona SoS was applying the same level of scrutiny to all candidates and not just singling one out. Hahaha.
| 154 |
Interesting Times Tue, May 22, 2012 7:42:04am |
If attacking Mitt Romney's record means you hate capitalism, then attacking Obama's record must mean you love Osama bin Laden.— Path2Enlightenment (@Path2Enlighten) May 22, 2012
| 155 |
darthstar Tue, May 22, 2012 7:42:07am |
This is so true...I find it harder and harder to visit my parents since they went birther...and I blame Fox because that's all they watch.
But it does keep your kids from ever visiting/calling. RT @SayethSimon: It's Official: Watching Fox Makes You Stupider zite.to/JybCyL— LOLGOP (@LOLGOP) May 22, 2012
| 157 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, May 22, 2012 7:42:42am |
re: #155 darthstar
This is so true...I find it harder and harder to visit my parents since they went birther...and I blame Fox because that's all they watch.
[Embedded content]
Yeah, I'm having big issue with Fox.
| 158 |
alpuz Tue, May 22, 2012 7:42:57am |
re: #144 Interesting Times
Apparently so are some of his supporters:
[Link: cognidissidence.blogspot.com...]
| 159 |
Simply Sarah Tue, May 22, 2012 7:46:38am |
re: #136 RogueOne
This fucking blows. They just found my best friend dead. Wow. I just hooked up with him last weekend. I'm stunned.
{{RogueOne}} I really sorry to hear that. My best wishes to his family and friends.
| 160 |
Political Atheist Tue, May 22, 2012 7:46:48am |
re: #136 RogueOne
Oh no, so sorry to hear. That's just horrible.
| 161 |
Lidane Tue, May 22, 2012 7:46:49am |
re: #155 darthstar
This is so true...I find it harder and harder to visit my parents since they went birther...and I blame Fox because that's all they watch.
[Embedded content]
Faux News makes it uncomfortable when I go see my family, especially since one of my uncles revealed himself as a birther this past Christmas. At that point, it's a choice for me -- go into full bobblehead mode and play along with whatever Faux News talking points they spew or risk causing family drama by fact checking.
Ugh.
| 163 |
ProGunLiberal Tue, May 22, 2012 7:47:51am |
Aigle-bot continues to be an idiot. Apparently, the Grant Nut of Saudi Arabia called for all Churches in the Middle East to be destroyed.
Saudi Arabia has said this before. Of course, Aigle-bot (and CAMERA) are trying to paint all Muslims as evil.
Meanwhile, Saudi Arabia continues to mangle the Muslim World through its ignorant ideology.And we continue to buy the oil to support it.
| 164 |
HappyWarrior Tue, May 22, 2012 7:47:57am |
re: #153 Lidane
And he got gloriously shot down by Hawaii, too. Just like Sheriff Joe's goons will be sent packing.
I will always love the Hawaiian officials demanding proof that the Arizona SoS was applying the same level of scrutiny to all candidates and not just singling one out. Hahaha.
It's a fair point that the Hawaiian officials are making. Why does Obama get the scrutiny? I swear, I remember when Obama as a senator co-sponsored a bill that would allow children of US military members who were born on military bases to be afforded the same rights as a child born in the geographic US, the wingnuts I knew were claiming that he only did it to distract from his own citizenship questions. It was a good will gesture and they still attacked him over it. It's unbelievable that this birther shit is still continuing well into 2012. I mean it was bad enough as was originally but damn.
| 165 |
Vicious Babushka Tue, May 22, 2012 7:48:09am |
re: #136 RogueOne
This fucking blows. They just found my best friend dead. Wow. I just hooked up with him last weekend. I'm stunned.
That is awful! What happened?
| 166 |
Gus Tue, May 22, 2012 7:48:16am |
Bruce Willis making fun out of Mittens. That's gonna leave a sting with the faux-macho worshiping right wingers.
| 167 |
Lidane Tue, May 22, 2012 7:49:33am |
re: #164 HappyWarrior
It's unbelievable that this birther shit is still continuing well into 2012. I mean it was bad enough as was originally but damn.
Just imagine how the birthers will react if President Obama is re-elected.
| 168 |
RadicalModerate Tue, May 22, 2012 7:50:01am |
re: #93 Buck
It's of vital importance to American democracy's future that Walker stays. He already won the actual election, fair and square. Otherwise it's a huge green light to the Unions that they can pay to change the results of an election and buy their candidates a redo in any election they want.
So let me understand this. unions contributing to campaigns is bad, while corporations and rightwing PACs spending more than TEN TIMES as much is a good thing.
[Link: www.wisconsinreporter.com...]
MADISON — Wisconsinites on Monday got their most detailed look yet at the river of campaign cash flowing through the state.
Gov. Scott Walker has raised $13 million since Jan. 18, more than doubling the $12.1 million he raised last year.
[...]
The campaigns of the two Democratic front-runners, Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett and former Dane County Executive Kathleen Falk, announced their candidates raised $750,000 and $1 million, respectively.
| 169 |
Varek Raith Tue, May 22, 2012 7:50:04am |
re: #166 Gus
Bruce Willis making fun out of Mittens. That's gonna leave a sting with the faux-macho worshiping right wingers.
Well, yippie-ki-yay motherfucker!
| 170 |
HappyWarrior Tue, May 22, 2012 7:50:51am |
re: #167 Lidane
Just imagine how the birthers will react if President Obama is re-elected.
Gonna be something else. I hope he is just so the listeners of Beck, Hannity, Limbaugh, etc can be convinced that this is the end of America as they know it by a bunch of blowhards who profit off of their misery.
| 171 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Tue, May 22, 2012 7:51:10am |
re: #161 Lidane
Faux News makes it uncomfortable when I go see my family, especially since one of my uncles revealed himself as a birther this past Christmas. At that point, it's a choice for me -- go into full bobblehead mode and play along with whatever Faux News talking points they spew or risk causing family drama by fact checking.
Ugh.
Do what I do. Mumble some half-assed nonsense that sounds vaguely placating without either expressing your true feelings or pretending to go along with the woo.
| 172 |
ProGunLiberal Tue, May 22, 2012 7:51:30am |
I should also note that this Mufti is a direct descendant of Wahhab.
| 173 |
HappyWarrior Tue, May 22, 2012 7:52:33am |
I feel bad for you all that have relatives that are crazy politically. I come from a pretty left of center family.
| 174 |
Lidane Tue, May 22, 2012 7:56:07am |
re: #168 RadicalModerate
So let me understand this. unions contributing to campaigns is bad, while corporations and rightwing PACs spending more than TEN TIMES as much is a good thing.
Well, duh. Everyone knows the unions have never done anything good.
Except for securing the 8-hour workday, overtime pay, a minimum wage, weekends, paid vacations and medical leave, maternity leave, safer working conditions, etc. You know -- unimportant details of our everyday working lives.
| 175 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, May 22, 2012 7:56:34am |
re: #170 HappyWarrior
Gonna be something else. I hope he is just so the listeners of Beck, Hannity, Limbaugh, etc can be convinced that this is the end of America as they know it by a bunch of blowhards who profit off of their misery.
American as they fantasize it never was.
| 176 |
Lidane Tue, May 22, 2012 7:57:39am |
re: #171 thedopefishlives
Do what I do. Mumble some half-assed nonsense that sounds vaguely placating without either expressing your true feelings or pretending to go along with the woo.
That's what I call bobblehead mode. I just nod along with everything and let them rant. When my birther uncle asked me about politics I gave him some half-assed excuse that grad school had consumed my life so I wasn't paying attention. Anything to keep from having that conversation with him.
| 177 |
RadicalModerate Tue, May 22, 2012 7:57:45am |
re: #168 RadicalModerate
So let me understand this. unions contributing to campaigns is bad, while corporations and rightwing PACs spending more than TEN TIMES as much is a good thing.
[Link: www.wisconsinreporter.com...]
Whoops. I misspoke- that story was from three weeks ago.
It's now a 25:1 differential.
[Link: www.google.com...]
Opponents of Walker are concerned that the governor, aided by a huge influx of money from conservative supporters nationwide, has opened a lead in a race that had been dead even in the polls.
Walker, who has raised $25 million, has been blanketing Wisconsin with broadcast advertising touting his handling of the economy. His Democratic opponent, Tom Barrett, who did not win his party's primary until May 8, has raised only $1 million and not been able to match the blitz.
| 178 |
HappyWarrior Tue, May 22, 2012 7:58:13am |
re: #175 ggt
American as they fantasize it never was.
Yep. They talk about "moral decline" and all that but ignore that in their romantic past that racism and homophobia were much more acceptable than they are now.
| 179 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, May 22, 2012 7:58:22am |
Ozzie and Harriet was a TV show.
I should put that on a t-shirt.
| 180 |
Buck Tue, May 22, 2012 7:58:38am |
re: #168 RadicalModerate
So let me understand this. unions contributing to campaigns is bad, while corporations and rightwing PACs spending more than TEN TIMES as much is a good thing.
[Link: www.wisconsinreporter.com...]
Your numbers leave out the political action committees formed by Union coalitions. Just one example is "We Are Wisconsin" PAC.
| 181 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Tue, May 22, 2012 7:59:09am |
re: #176 Lidane
That's what I call bobblehead mode. I just nod along with everything and let them rant. When my birther uncle asked me about politics I gave him some half-assed excuse that grad school had consumed my life so I wasn't paying attention. Anything to keep from having that conversation with him.
My dad is a Faux News fanatic and a dittohead, to boot. I usually mumble something along the lines of "I don't necessarily approve of everything that Obama has done", which is the truth (not like I've approved of everything any president has done), but it avoids the difficulty of having to sit down and hit my own father in the head with a clue-by-four.
| 182 |
darthstar Tue, May 22, 2012 8:00:41am |
Day 1: What does a Romney Presidency look like? Keystone Pipeline, cut taxes, repeal Obamacare mi.tt/JBwlrZ #NewDirection— Mitt Romney (@MittRomney) May 18, 2012
@MittRomneyActually, it'll be Day 1462 of Obama's presidency and none of that crap will happen.— Sean McCabe (@darthstar99) May 22, 2012
| 183 |
ProGunLiberal Tue, May 22, 2012 8:00:44am |
| 184 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, May 22, 2012 8:01:38am |
re: #171 thedopefishlives
Do what I do. Mumble some half-assed nonsense that sounds vaguely placating without either expressing your true feelings or pretending to go along with the woo.
I play Socrates.
I make sure everyone knows I think what they say is bullshit --but I try to do it in a way that might actually cause them to think a little. Or at least shut-up.
| 185 |
Gus Tue, May 22, 2012 8:01:48am |
re: #182 darthstar
[Embedded content]
LOL Looks at that list. So what's it going to be? 7 days of the God Mittens and then he rests?
| 186 |
alpuz Tue, May 22, 2012 8:02:12am |
re: #177 RadicalModerate
It's insane. It's not your usual yard signs and whatnot. It's huge banners lining the major highways and busy city roads. The ratio of signs matches the money. I'd say about 20:1 for Walker.
| 187 |
Interesting Times Tue, May 22, 2012 8:02:42am |
re: #182 darthstar
#IStandWithObama because I am ill-fitted for survival in the post-apocalyptic hellscape a Romney Presidency will create.— Bearded Stoner (@beardedstoner) May 22, 2012
| 188 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, May 22, 2012 8:02:46am |
re: #183 ProGunLiberal
And the Saudis promote the same thing.
Our nuts are the same as theirs.
Can we just give them all Texas?
| 189 |
HappyWarrior Tue, May 22, 2012 8:03:25am |
re: #183 ProGunLiberal
And the Saudis promote the same thing.
Our nuts are the same as theirs.
Most religious nuts are like that. They have an idealized version of the past. A past that never was. I'm not sure where I heard it but I think I saw someone say that the trouble with being a romantic is you never have to live in the period you romanticize.
| 190 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, May 22, 2012 8:04:30am |
I love doing the Socratic Method with these people. I stay calm and use my brain --they start raising their voice and showing emotional body language. I may not convince them of anything, but the onlookers get to see a parody of themselves.
| 191 |
Gus Tue, May 22, 2012 8:06:21am |
Day 2: Bomb Iran.
Day 3: Repeal Title X.
Day 4: Ban Abortion
Day 5: Organize Circle Jerk.
| 192 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, May 22, 2012 8:06:34am |
| 193 |
ProGunLiberal Tue, May 22, 2012 8:07:39am |
re: #188 ggt
Now, I say we fence in the Texas Panhandle, put them all in there, and give them guns.
Our radicalism problem be solved. Granted, I am in a real cynical mood right.
| 194 |
HappyWarrior Tue, May 22, 2012 8:08:01am |
| 195 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, May 22, 2012 8:08:02am |
Fright Wing!!!
| 196 |
Mattand Tue, May 22, 2012 8:08:29am |
re: #8 Kragar
Wait, what happened? What authority does Sheriff Derp have in HI?
Just Arpaio making threats to appease the birthers (who seem to be growing in numbers among conservatives lately.)
He and his minions have even less authority to see Obama's certificate that AZ's Secretary of State, so nothing will come of it. I've come to view this stuff as throwing sand in Obama's re-election gears; it's a way to slow him down somehow.
Sometimes I get the feeling that many conservatives secretly approve of this crap. It's blatantly racist and they may not even believe it themselves. However, they're fine with anything that tears down the President.
| 197 |
HappyWarrior Tue, May 22, 2012 8:09:05am |
re: #193 ProGunLiberal
Now, I say we fence in the Texas Panhandle, put them all in there, and give them guns.
Our radicalism problem be solved. Granted, I am in a real cynical mood right.
That's not cynical. That's authoritarian. I don't like their views either and I am sure they think I'm a commie pinko urban east coast elitist but still.
| 198 |
darthstar Tue, May 22, 2012 8:11:08am |
Okay...I finally weighed in on the Cory Booker crisis...
Just learned @corybooker isn't the Dem Prez candidate.It's some other black guy.Don't tell Mitt...see if he realizes it. @lolgop— Sean McCabe (@darthstar99) May 22, 2012
| 199 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, May 22, 2012 8:11:15am |
re: #197 HappyWarrior
That's not radical. That's authoritarian. I don't like their views either and I am sure they think I'm a commie pinko urban east coast elitist but still.
Your not?
/
| 200 |
Gus Tue, May 22, 2012 8:11:28am |
Study: Fox Viewers far less knowledgeable than Daily Show viewers or even those who watch no news at all freakoutnation.com/2012/05/22/stu...— TurboKitty(@TurboKitty) May 22, 2012
| 201 |
HappyWarrior Tue, May 22, 2012 8:12:03am |
re: #196 mattand
Just Arpaio making threats to appease the birthers (who seem to be growing in numbers among conservatives lately.)
He and his minions have even less authority to see Obama's certificate that AZ's Secretary of State, so nothing will come of it. I've come to view this stuff as throwing sand in Obama's re-election gears; it's a way to slow him down somehow.
Sometimes I get the feeling that many conservatives secretly approve of this crap. It's blatantly racist and they may not even believe it themselves. However, they're fine with anything that tears down the President.
I guess it's kind of like segregation in that way. One has to ask himself what's worse- the sincere racist who believes that blacks and others are an inferior race or the jerk who panders to that for power. It's tough.
| 202 |
gwangung Tue, May 22, 2012 8:12:19am |
re: #180 Buck
Your numbers leave out the political action committees formed by Union coalitions. Just one example is "We Are Wisconsin" PAC.
So? What's the math?
| 203 |
Varek Raith Tue, May 22, 2012 8:12:37am |
| 204 |
RadicalModerate Tue, May 22, 2012 8:12:46am |
re: #180 Buck
Your numbers leave out the political action committees formed by Union coalitions. Just one example is "We Are Wisconsin" PAC.
I've backed up my statements with links to real numbers provided by the campaigns and state Election Commission, while all I've heard from you is a tired talking point that unions are going to destroy democracy without giving any evidence whatsoever to back up your fear-mongering.
So, got any real dollar amounts saying how much money unions have spent on the Walker recall?
| 205 |
Mattand Tue, May 22, 2012 8:13:01am |
re: #189 HappyWarrior
Most religious nuts are like that. They have an idealized version of the past. A past that never was. I'm not sure where I heard it but I think I saw someone say that the trouble with being a romantic is you never have to live in the period you romanticize.
My dad grew up in the '50s. To hear him and some of his friends tell it, it was Shangri-La. I think he tends to confuse "not as prevalent" with "never happening". Plus, we're white, so he didn't have to deal with "minor" inconveniences like separate but not that equal.
| 206 |
Varek Raith Tue, May 22, 2012 8:13:24am |
Buck is an AGW denier.
His argument is invalid.
| 207 |
HappyWarrior Tue, May 22, 2012 8:13:36am |
re: #199 ggt
Your not?
/
No, I'm a suburban, Menshivik, near the Blue Ridge Mountains quasi elitist. //
| 208 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, May 22, 2012 8:15:20am |
re: #205 mattand
My dad grew up in the '50s. To hear him and some of his friends tell it, it was Shangri-La I think he tends to confuse "not as prevalent" with "never happening". Plus, we're white, so he didn't have to deal with "minor" inconveniences like separate but not that equal.
Sucks with globalization of the economy bursts your little racist bubble, doesn't it.
Conservatives need to be careful what they wish for. Capitalism is a great equalizer in many respects.
| 209 |
Simply Sarah Tue, May 22, 2012 8:16:42am |
re: #17 Lidane
I can't believe we're destined for more of this shit:
Iowa GOP Convention To Vote On Language Questioning Obama’s ‘Natural Born’ Citizenship
"Fringe movement" my ass. Birtherism is the default in the GOP. It's the NON-birther Republicans that are the fringe.
It's even worse than that, look at some of the other things in the proposed platform, including, to me, one of the most terrifying ones:
Iowa’s GOP Platform Endorses Birtherism
...
NULLIFICATION: The platform takes the stance of ‘nullification’– that any state, under the 10th amendment, can choose to side-step federal law because they deem it unconstitutional. The platform also takes the stance that they can ignore Supreme Court rulings under the 10th amendment:
We support constitutional state sovereignty including nullification of federal oversteps.
We disagree with Roe vs. Wade and Doe vs. Bolton as “settled law.” Under the Tenth amendment, these Supreme Court decisions have no authority over the states.
| 210 |
ProGunLiberal Tue, May 22, 2012 8:17:30am |
re: #205 mattand
Issues like Lynching, and unequal schools, and a list of things that go on and on.
re: #197 HappyWarrior
I drift begin to get that way when cynical.
You are going to tell me that you never wanted the various radicals to fight with each other, leaving the world a more sane place for the rest of us?
| 211 |
Gus Tue, May 22, 2012 8:17:35am |
re: #206 Varek Raith
Buck is an AGW denier.
His argument is invalid.
I'm on God's side and eventually you will be judged by our Creator therefore your argument is invalid.
//
| 212 |
Lidane Tue, May 22, 2012 8:19:33am |
re: #196 mattand
Sometimes I get the feeling that many conservatives secretly approve of this crap. It's blatantly racist and they may not even believe it themselves. However, they're fine with anything that tears down the President.
| 213 |
Gus Tue, May 22, 2012 8:20:15am |
Is Congress Really Authorizing US Propaganda at Home?
Progressives are worked up over a new "brainwashing" law for misguided reasons.
—By Adam Weinstein
I'm getting grief from the right and the left alike for this rundown on gov't propaganda. mojo.ly/LnZGjK— Adam Weinstein (@AdamWeinstein) May 22, 2012
| 214 |
Mattand Tue, May 22, 2012 8:20:21am |
re: #201 HappyWarrior
I guess it's kind of like segregation in that way. One has to ask himself what's worse- the sincere racist who believes that blacks and others are an inferior race or the jerk who panders to that for power. It's tough.
True. For America I want to live in, neither is acceptable. Personally, I lean towards the honest-with-themselves racist, in that you at least know what kind of piece of shit you're dealing with.
The other option, which IMO many conservatives are comfortable with, is far worse. Exploiting such a corrosive view to the detriment of our country angers me to no end.
Not that what I think matters, but at least McCain corrected that batty birther at his rally in '08. I cannot even imagine Romney, Boehner, or any other conservative of note making even that feeble attempt. Lord knows the rank-and-file "moderate" conservatives I deal with rarely do it.
| 215 |
HappyWarrior Tue, May 22, 2012 8:20:24am |
re: #210 ProGunLiberal
Issues like Lynching, and unequal schools, and a list of things that go on and on.
re: #197 HappyWarrior
I drift begin to get that way when cynical.
You are going to tell me that you never wanted the various radicals to fight with each other, leaving the world a more sane place for the rest of us?
Can't say that I do no. I'm a small letter d- democrat above all else. People like that suck and they're jerks but you don't get to deal with people who are agreeable all the time. Besides, many of my good friends growing up were to my right in politics. Politics ain't everything to me.
| 216 |
jaunte Tue, May 22, 2012 8:20:34am |
re: #204 RadicalModerate
Here are some interesting Wisconsin numbers, from the Wisconsin Democracy Campaign:
Special Interest Smorgasbord
A report on the favors for special interests approved by the legislature and the governor in 2011 and 2012.
...The policies with an identifiable price tag collectively cost the state $334.5 million in fiscal year 2012-13 – mostly in lost tax revenue – and grow to at least $438.9 million by 2020-21. The total cost will exceed $2 billion over 10 years. Legislators and the governor accepted $23.6 million in campaign contributions from 2009 through 2011 from the special interests that benefited from their actions (Table).
| 217 |
darthstar Tue, May 22, 2012 8:20:56am |
re: #209 Simply Sarah
It's even worse than that, look at some of the other things in the proposed platform, including, to me, one of the most terrifying ones:
Iowa’s GOP Platform Endorses Birtherism
...
It's Iowa...that's why we stuck it in the middle of the fuckin' country next to Nebraska...freakin' buckeyes.
| 218 |
Gus Tue, May 22, 2012 8:21:37am |
...
Progressive thinkers balked at the news: Mideast expert Juan Cole decried the amendment as "the creeping fascism of American politics…by our representatives, who apparently have never read a book on Germany in the 1930s-1940s or on the Soviet Union in the Stalin period." On civil libertarian Jonathan Turley's site, guest blogger Elaine Magliaro asked: "How about some propaganda for the people paid for by the people being propagandized?"
[Sound of record scratching.] John Cole!
| 219 |
Lidane Tue, May 22, 2012 8:21:44am |
re: #209 Simply Sarah
So the Iowa GOP are a bunch of Birthers and Tenthers?
Sounds just like the Texas GOP. =P
| 220 |
lawhawk Tue, May 22, 2012 8:21:48am |
re: #182 darthstar
And Keystone might well happen but not through the most environmentally sensitive parts of NE (in which case, Obama would take credit for both getting the pipeline done and limiting potential environmental damage to key aquifers/lands...). After all, the company behind the pipeline proposal has offered up a routing that would avoid running through the Sandhills.
| 221 |
HappyWarrior Tue, May 22, 2012 8:21:51am |
re: #214 mattand
True. For America I want to live in, neither is acceptable. Personally, I lean towards the honest-with-themselves racist, in that you at least know what kind of piece of shit you're dealing with.
The other option, which IMO many conservatives are comfortable with, is far worse. Exploiting such a corrosive view to the detriment of our country angers me to no end.
Not that what I think matters, but at least McCain corrected that batty birther at his rally in '08. I cannot even imagine Romney, Boehner, or any other conservative of note making even that feeble attempt. Lord knows the rank-and-file "moderate" conservatives I deal with rarely do it.
This is pretty much how I think on the matter.
| 222 |
Gus Tue, May 22, 2012 8:22:07am |
I like this sentence:
The argument against Thornberry's and Smith's amendment appears to be pretty straightforward: We only want US propaganda peddled to foreign populations, but not to our own!
| 223 |
HappyWarrior Tue, May 22, 2012 8:23:17am |
Funny that the 10th amendment doesn't mean shit if gays want to marry.
| 224 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, May 22, 2012 8:24:57am |
I'm off to accomplish something.
Have a great morning all!
| 225 |
ProGunLiberal Tue, May 22, 2012 8:25:24am |
re: #223 HappyWarrior
They are constitutionalist when convenient. Otherwise, they feel they can flout it.
| 226 |
Gus Tue, May 22, 2012 8:25:50am |
Sheriff Joe Arpaio Sends ‘Threats Unit’ Investigator To Hawaii To Escalate Birther Probe
Not to be outdone by the Arizona secretary of state’s recent flirtation with birtherism, Sheriff Joe Arpaio escalated his probe into President Obama’s birth certificate this week by dispatching a deputy from his “threats unit” to Hawaii.
Both the Arizona Republic and the Honolulu Star-Advertiser reported deputy Brian Mackiewcz traveled with Arpaio’s volunteer posse member Michael Zullo on Monday to try to get an official confirmation that Hawaii has the president’s birth certificate on file.
Earlier this year, the Arizona sheriff fanned the flames of the birther conspiracy theory when he announced that Zullo and other posse members had determined a copy of the birth certificate released last year by the White House was a fraud. More recently, Arizona Secretary of State Ken Bennett has said he is following the sheriff’s lead and considering keeping the president off the state’s ballot in November unless he gets confirmation the document is real...
| 227 |
Simply Sarah Tue, May 22, 2012 8:26:13am |
re: #219 Lidane
So the Iowa GOP are a bunch of Birthers and Tenthers?
Sounds just like the Texas GOP. =P
They also want to impeach the 9th Circuit (Well, start there), natch. I couldn't copy and paste so I didn't bother with stuff not in the TP article.
| 229 |
Lidane Tue, May 22, 2012 8:27:58am |
re: #227 Simply Sarah
They also want to impeach the 9th Circuit (Well, start there), natch. I couldn't copy and paste so I didn't bother with stuff not in the TP article.
Iowa Republicans want to impeach the 9th Circuit? They'd better move to the West Coast then. It's a bit out of their reach.
| 230 |
HappyWarrior Tue, May 22, 2012 8:28:21am |
re: #227 Simply Sarah
They also want to impeach the 9th Circuit (Well, start there), natch. I couldn't copy and paste so I didn't bother with stuff not in the TP article.
Isn't that the Newt Gingrich Toddler Tantrum Plan?
| 231 |
Gus Tue, May 22, 2012 8:28:35am |
re: #223 HappyWarrior
Funny that the 10th amendment doesn't mean shit if gays want to marry.
The 10th Amendment (Tenther) is like a Libertarian. It only applies to your own personal ideals and needs.
| 232 |
RadicalModerate Tue, May 22, 2012 8:28:40am |
re: #223 HappyWarrior
Funny that the 10th amendment doesn't mean shit if gays want to marry.
Funny how many of the so-called "tenthers" seem to have never bothered to read the amendment completely.
They almost always ignore the fact that things like the Commerce Clause and the 14th Amendment (equal protection) are written into the Constitution, and are guaranteed at the federal level.
| 233 |
Buck Tue, May 22, 2012 8:29:14am |
re: #204 RadicalModerate
I've backed up my statements with links to real numbers provided by the campaigns and state Election Commission,
No you provided a link that was clearly biased as it left out any mention of the Union PACs that have spent tens of millions.
A Mother Jones article puts it this way:
The biggest spender on the Democratic side is We Are Wisconsin, a coalition of labor unions. Campaign finance filings show about $8.8 million in spending by the group so far. Other Democratic groups include the Greater Wisconsin Committee, a liberal advocacy organization that has pumped roughly $1.5 million into the recalls to date, and the state's main teachers' union, the Wisconsin Education Association Council, whose spending McCabe puts at about $500,000. Obama for America, the president's reelection committee, is also involved in the recalls, organizing volunteers for get-out-the-vote drives.
[Link: www.motherjones.com...]
Now how could your link leave out these groups and their spending?
It is not over. We know that during the 2011 recall Unions spent upwards of $15 million. If you only read the biased articles, you will only get a biased POV.
| 234 |
ProGunLiberal Tue, May 22, 2012 8:29:15am |
re: #226 Gus
Wasting money, he's doing it right.
| 235 |
Decatur Deb Tue, May 22, 2012 8:29:34am |
re: #226 Gus
Sheriff Joe Arpaio Sends ‘Threats Unit’ Investigator To Hawaii To Escalate Birther Probe
One of the WND nutcases, Corsi I think, is 'embedded' with the Hawaii investigation. He is embargoing his reports, to avoid interfering with the progress.
| 236 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Tue, May 22, 2012 8:29:50am |
re: #233 Buck
If you only read the biased articles, you will only get a biased POV.
So take your own advice.
| 237 |
HappyWarrior Tue, May 22, 2012 8:30:01am |
re: #232 RadicalModerate
Funny how many of the so-called "tenthers" seem to have never bothered to read the amendment completely.
They almost always ignore the fact that things like the Commerce Clause and the 14th Amendment (equal protection) are written into the Constitution, and are guaranteed at the federal level.
I think they stop reading at all rights to the states which is how you get states rights as a justification for segregation.
| 238 |
Lidane Tue, May 22, 2012 8:30:36am |
re: #237 HappyWarrior
I think they stop reading at all rights to the states which is how you get states rights as a justification for segregation.
They're still trying to fight the Civil War. These people would take us back to the antebellum South if they could.
| 239 |
Gus Tue, May 22, 2012 8:31:05am |
re: #233 Buck
No you provided a link that was clearly biased as it left out any mention of the Union PACs that have spent tens of millions.
A Mother Jones article puts it this way:
[Link: www.motherjones.com...]
Now how could your link leave out these groups and their spending?
It is not over. We know that during the 2011 recall Unions spent upwards of $15 million. If you only read the biased articles, you will only get a biased POV.
Ummmm. So what. You expect the unions to no put money into the recall election? You're trying to poison the well by saying "teh unions are pouring in millions of dollars" like that's a bad thing? Who do you think we are? A bunch of emoprogs in here?
| 240 |
Flounder Tue, May 22, 2012 8:31:29am |
You are all a bunch of suckers. Shefiff Joe and his sidekicks are just getting a free ride to Hawaii.
/
| 241 |
Gus Tue, May 22, 2012 8:31:38am |
OMG! Teh unions put millions of dollars into the political machine! Run for the hills!!
| 242 |
HappyWarrior Tue, May 22, 2012 8:32:36am |
re: #238 Lidane
They're still trying to fight the Civil War. These people would take us back to the antebellum South if they could.
Goes back to what I said about romantics, they have this idealized vision of the "noble" CSA. Forgetting that the old CSA was frankly quite close to a feudal society more than a capitalistic one.
| 243 |
gwangung Tue, May 22, 2012 8:32:40am |
re: #233 Buck
No you provided a link that was clearly biased as it left out any mention of the Union PACs that have spent tens of millions.
A Mother Jones article puts it this way:
[Link: www.motherjones.com...]
Now how could your link leave out these groups and their spending?
It is not over. We know that during the 2011 recall Unions spent upwards of $15 million. If you only read the biased articles, you will only get a biased POV.
In other words, you got NOTHING.
Weak sauce.
| 244 |
Gus Tue, May 22, 2012 8:32:56am |
Willie Horton ad producer tries more subtle approach in new Obama attack ad... pwire.at/L2cqAv— Taegan Goddard (@politicalwire) May 22, 2012
A new ad from Larry McCarthy, the producer behind the infamous Willie Horton commercial in 1988, and funded Karl Rove's Crossroads GPS, "is expected to become one of the most heavily broadcast political commercials of this phase of the general election," the New York Times reports.
It will debut tomorrow in 10 swing states as the centerpiece of a $25 million campaign...
| 245 |
RadicalModerate Tue, May 22, 2012 8:33:02am |
re: #233 Buck
No you provided a link that was clearly biased as it left out any mention of the Union PACs that have spent tens of millions.
A Mother Jones article puts it this way:
[Link: www.motherjones.com...]
Now how could your link leave out these groups and their spending?
It is not over. We know that during the 2011 recall Unions spent upwards of $15 million. If you only read the biased articles, you will only get a biased POV.
Today we learn that Buck believes that the Associated Press is biased.
Also, from the article I linked:
Some unions that were at the forefront of the recall effort have provided only limited help for Barrett, who defeated Democratic candidates who were favored by labor. Unions that spent nearly $11 million on state Senate recalls last year have yet to air an ad on behalf of Barrett.
| 246 |
HappyWarrior Tue, May 22, 2012 8:33:41am |
| 247 |
Buck Tue, May 22, 2012 8:34:02am |
re: #204 RadicalModerate
I wonder if you see the difference between the money Unions spend on the recalls and what is donated by private citizens.
The Unions expect to get the money back. They are trying to get elected the exact individuals who will be negotiating their contracts in the near future. Nothing hidden about that, no getting multiple quotes, just putting into power the people who will dutifully sign their contracts.
| 248 |
Lidane Tue, May 22, 2012 8:35:01am |
re: #235 Decatur Deb
I think it's hilarious how much time and money these freaks are wasting on trying to "prove" something they've got no grounds to prove. Barack Obama's mother was an American citizen. That settles the question of his citizenship, full stop.
Still, watching the GOP embrace birtherism at the state level has been telling. It's not a fringe viewpoint anymore. In fact, it's the non-birther Republicans that are the fringe now.
| 249 |
Buck Tue, May 22, 2012 8:35:20am |
re: #239 Gus
You expect the unions to no put money into the recall election?
No, that is the opposite of what I am saying. I am pointing out the balance.
| 250 |
Killgore Trout Tue, May 22, 2012 8:35:23am |
re: #244 Gus
delicately worded story of a struggling family; its relatively low-key tone is all the more striking,
Sounds pretty outrageous.
| 251 |
Gus Tue, May 22, 2012 8:35:43am |
re: #246 HappyWarrior
And ads about Bain are unfair but dogwhistling is just dandy.
Yep. Then you have those turds that want us (Obama supporters) to declare a unilateral truce. Hilarious. Because that's what it would be. A unilateral truce since the GOP has no intention of "moderating" their campaign strategy.
| 252 |
gwangung Tue, May 22, 2012 8:35:49am |
re: #247 Buck
I wonder if you see the difference between the money Unions spend on the recalls and what is donated by private citizens.
The Unions expect to get the money back. They are trying to get elected the exact individuals who will be negotiating their contracts in the near future. Nothing hidden about that, no getting multiple quotes, just putting into power the people who will dutifully sign their contracts.
Weak.
All talk, no figures.
You can do better.
| 254 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Tue, May 22, 2012 8:36:17am |
re: #249 Buck
No, that is the opposite of what I am saying. I am pointing out the balance.
Ah, so you are the personification of the Magical Balance Fairy.
| 255 |
Lidane Tue, May 22, 2012 8:36:39am |
re: #247 Buck
And I suppose the Super PACs from the right are just pouring millions into elections out of the kindness of their hearts. You know, because they're altruists that way.
| 256 |
Gus Tue, May 22, 2012 8:37:01am |
re: #250 Killgore Trout
Sounds pretty outrageous.
Who knows if it was outrageous. Did I say it was fucking outrageous?
| 257 |
Killgore Trout Tue, May 22, 2012 8:37:07am |
| 259 |
sattv4u2 Tue, May 22, 2012 8:37:50am |
re: #250 Killgore Trout
Sounds pretty outrageous.
If politicians are going to start using families in campaign ads,,, where will it all lead too
kittens ,,,,puppies ,,,,,,, AAAHHHHH!!!!!
| 260 |
HappyWarrior Tue, May 22, 2012 8:38:12am |
re: #251 Gus
Yep. Then you have those turds that want us (Obama supporters) to declare a unilateral truce. Hilarious. Because that's what it would be. A unilateral truce since the GOP has no intention of "moderating" their campaign strategy.
IT's hilarious to me. But these guys think they can play by different rules so not shocked.
| 261 |
Buck Tue, May 22, 2012 8:38:24am |
re: #255 Lidane
And I suppose the Super PACs from the right are just pouring millions into elections out of the kindness of their hearts. You know, because they're altruists that way.
Well, they believe that the budget is under attack and being looted by the Unions. So they are giving money to try and stop that.
| 262 |
Henchman Ghazi-808 Tue, May 22, 2012 8:39:45am |
re: #247 Buck
I wonder if you see the difference between the money
Unionscorporations spend onthe recallselections and what is donated by private citizens.
The UnionsCorporations expect to get the money back. They are trying to get elected the exact individuals who will be negotiating their contracts in the near future. Nothing hidden about that, no getting multiple quotes, just putting into power the people who will dutifully sign their contracts.
Funny, conservatives don't like unions. Yet unions are an advocacy lobby for the interests of it's members. They should be considered people, no?
| 263 |
Mattand Tue, May 22, 2012 8:40:17am |
re: #210 ProGunLiberal
You are going to tell me that you never wanted the various radicals to fight with each other, leaving the world a more sane place for the rest of us?
Sometimes. But then the "sane" people will find something else to argue over. Besides, one person's radical is another person's truth teller.
For example, look at the current GOP. I've mentioned this before, but I really, really do not want the GOP heading down the path it's currently taking. I don't think a permanent Democratic supermajority would be any healthier to the country than a GOP one.
The Democrats are far from perfect and have as many problems with things like lobbyists and graft as their counterparts. However when push comes to shove, the current GOP is becoming a threat to our society. At best, they seem to be complacent with things like birtherism, creationism, and reckless taxation policies that cripple our economy.
I cannot in good conscience vote for that kind of party. I've spoken with local GOP candidates and told them as much. I hate doing that, because at a local level they tend to worry about actual issues than the state or fed folks do. I don't take pleasure in this, particularly if they are the right person for the job. However, at at the end of the day they represent a party that has lost its shit because of a black dude in the White House.
We need at minimum two healthy parties to rationally deal with issues. That ain't happening, and having the GOP splinter into two radically conservative camps, while entertaining, is not a good thing.
| 264 |
Vicious Babushka Tue, May 22, 2012 8:40:17am |
re: #261 Buck
Well, they believe that the budget is under attack and being looted by the Unions. So they are giving money to try and stop that.
YOU FREAKING MORON.
If "The Unions" looted the budget, they wouldn't be selling off their assets just in order to pay their regular operating expenses.
| 265 |
Killgore Trout Tue, May 22, 2012 8:41:26am |
re: #259 sattv4u2
If politicians are going to start using families in campaign ads,,, where will it all lead too
kittens ,,,puppies ,,, AAAHHH!!!
That will only lead to memes and lol cats being politicized!
| 266 |
RadicalModerate Tue, May 22, 2012 8:41:27am |
re: #247 Buck
I wonder if you see the difference between the money Unions spend on the recalls and what is donated by private citizens.
The Unions expect to get the money back. They are trying to get elected the exact individuals who will be negotiating their contracts in the near future. Nothing hidden about that, no getting multiple quotes, just putting into power the people who will dutifully sign their contracts.
Which is why one Houston, Texas businessman (Bob Perry - whose other big claim to fame was financing the "Swift Boat" disinformation campaign) contributed half a million dollars to the Walker campaign. The largest contributor by an organized labor group was $40,000 to the Falk campaign - that being the Wisconsin Teachers' union. Yeah. those teachers are so overpaid, aren't they?
| 268 |
dragonath Tue, May 22, 2012 8:44:05am |
re: #261 Buck
Your support created the conditions with which campaigns are saturated with corportate money, but whenever an union exercises its right under the law, you wail like a baby. Okay, got that.
| 269 |
darthstar Tue, May 22, 2012 8:44:14am |
re: #220 lawhawk
And Keystone might well happen but not through the most environmentally sensitive parts of NE (in which case, Obama would take credit for both getting the pipeline done and limiting potential environmental damage to key aquifers/lands...). After all, the company behind the pipeline proposal has offered up a routing that would avoid running through the Sandhills.
Agreed...Obama's not actually against Keystone, but the initial request and push was so un-thought out(un-thought?) pushing back was his only option.
| 270 |
darthstar Tue, May 22, 2012 8:47:18am |
At some point, negative ads will have the reverse effect (people won't believe them and it will make them like the attacked candidate better). When that happens, the really nasty ads against Romney will come out...because nobody likes Romney less than the people trying to get him elected.
| 271 |
Gus Tue, May 22, 2012 8:47:24am |
re: #265 Killgore Trout
That will only lead to memes and lol cats being politicized!
It's by the creator of the Willie Horton ad. Unless you think that ad campaign was funny. All it said is that it was a more subtle "attack ad" and nothing there had any hint of outrage. You can watch the ad here: [Link: www.nytimes.com...]
| 272 |
jamesfirecat Tue, May 22, 2012 8:48:20am |
re: #261 Buck
Well, they believe that the budget is under attack and being looted by the Unions. So they are giving money to try and stop that.
No they're giving money to Walker so he can stay elected break the unions, and then the companies those people run can pay their workers less thus lowering costs to them.
| 273 |
Killgore Trout Tue, May 22, 2012 8:48:22am |
| 274 |
Henchman Ghazi-808 Tue, May 22, 2012 8:48:32am |
re: #268 Be Zorch, Daddio
Your support created the conditions with which campaigns are saturated with corportate money, but whenever an union exercises its right under the law, you wail like a baby. Okay, got that.
Corporations are people, unions are evil. Got it?
| 275 |
darthstar Tue, May 22, 2012 8:49:32am |
re: #271 Gus
Where is ole Willie today...oh yeah, still behind bars.
| 276 |
Eventual Carrion Tue, May 22, 2012 8:50:19am |
re: #247 Buck
I wonder if you see the difference between the money Unions spend on the recalls and what is donated by private citizens.
The Unions expect to get the money back. They are trying to get elected the exact individuals who will be negotiating their contracts in the near future. Nothing hidden about that, no getting multiple quotes, just putting into power the people who will dutifully sign their contracts.
Oh grow the fuck up Buck. Unions are made up of people who are trying to get the person out of office that is trying to fuck them. The people behind Walker are people that stand to make millions by fucking the unions. So take your concern, suck it up your nose and blow it out of your ass.
| 277 |
Buck Tue, May 22, 2012 8:51:12am |
re: #262 Kronocide
Except for the fact that everyone would expect corporations to have to bid for business. Unions don't have to do that. There is no competing for Union contracts.
| 278 |
Buck Tue, May 22, 2012 8:52:15am |
re: #276 RayFerd
Oh grow the fuck up Buck. Unions are made up of people who are trying to get the person out of office that is trying to fuck them. The people behind Walker are people that stand to make millions by fucking the unions. So take your concern, suck it up your nose and blow it out of your ass.
The lowest form of disagreement, and probably also the most common here.
| 279 |
Lidane Tue, May 22, 2012 8:52:18am |
re: #274 Kronocide
Corporations are people, unions are evil. Got it?
Yep. Unions are evil. It absolutely sucks having all the benefits that we've gotten from their efforts over the years. I keep forgetting that.
Heh.
| 280 |
sattv4u2 Tue, May 22, 2012 8:52:54am |
re: #275 darthstar
Where is ole Willie today...oh yeah, still behind bars.
for crimes he committed while on furlough
| 281 |
Henchman Ghazi-808 Tue, May 22, 2012 8:52:58am |
re: #277 Buck
Except for the fact that everyone would expect corporations to have to bid for business. Unions don't have to do that. There is no competing for Union contracts.
Oh, so that's your only issue with unions?
| 282 |
Eventual Carrion Tue, May 22, 2012 8:53:05am |
re: #261 Buck
Well, they believe that the budget is under attack and being looted by the Unions. So they are giving money to try and stop that.
And it is all made up bullshit. Prove me wrong.
| 283 |
Eventual Carrion Tue, May 22, 2012 8:53:36am |
re: #278 Buck
The lowest form of disagreement, and probably also the most common here.
Good then fuck off.
| 284 |
Buck Tue, May 22, 2012 8:53:50am |
re: #272 jamesfirecat
No they're giving money to Walker so he can stay elected break the unions, and then the companies those people run can pay their workers less thus lowering costs to them.
Really? Which companies pay the teachers, or any of the other public unions that were "broken"?
| 285 |
Henchman Ghazi-808 Tue, May 22, 2012 8:54:24am |
re: #278 Buck
The lowest form of disagreement, and probably also the most common here.
Nice. The only time you take the high road is when it comes to swearing.
| 286 |
jaunte Tue, May 22, 2012 8:54:50am |
Poll: Americans favor union bargaining rights
MADISON, Wis. — Americans strongly oppose laws taking away the collective bargaining power of public employee unions, according to a new USA TODAY/Gallup Poll. The poll found 61% would oppose a law in their state similar to such a proposal in Wisconsin, compared with 33% who would favor such a law.
| 287 |
jamesfirecat Tue, May 22, 2012 8:55:05am |
re: #284 Buck
Really? Which companies pay the teachers, or any of the other public unions that were "broken"?
If you don't think that breaking the power of public unions in a state is a way to test the waters for making the place a "right to work" state where they can break the power of private unions also.... well there was a reason the firefighters and police sided with the other unions even though Walker's new laws did not affect them...
| 289 |
sattv4u2 Tue, May 22, 2012 8:56:22am |
| 290 |
darthstar Tue, May 22, 2012 8:56:49am |
re: #280 sattv4u2
for crimes he committed while on furlough
Nope...he was already serving life without parole. Furlough crimes get served after that.
| 291 |
sattv4u2 Tue, May 22, 2012 8:57:50am |
re: #290 darthstar
Nope...he was already serving life without parole. Furlough crimes get served after that.
On June 6, 1986, he was released as part of a weekend furlough program but did not return. On April 3, 1987 in Oxon Hill, Maryland, Horton twice raped a local woman after pistol-whipping, knifing, binding, and gagging her fiancé. He then stole the car belonging to the man he had assaulted. He was later shot and captured by Corporal Paul J. Lopez of the Prince George's County Police Department after a pursuit. On October 20, Horton was sentenced in Maryland to two consecutive life terms plus 85 years. The sentencing judge, Vincent J. Femia, refused to return Horton to Massachusetts, saying, "I'm not prepared to take the chance that Mr. Horton might again be furloughed or otherwise released. This man should never draw a breath of free air again."[3]
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
I lived in Massachusetts at the time.
| 292 |
Buck Tue, May 22, 2012 8:58:38am |
re: #287 jamesfirecat
If you don't think that breaking the power of public unions in a state is a way to test the waters for making the place a "right to work" state where they can break the power of private unions also... well there was a reason the firefighters and police sided with the other unions even though Walker's new laws did not affect them...
Well, for a guy who is usually all about "Prove it", you seem to have no problem with "what they are secretly doing" now.
Walker is all about the Budget and economy in WI. That is what is best for everyone in WI. Look to what has happened in California for an example of letting the Unions run things.
| 293 |
RadicalModerate Tue, May 22, 2012 8:58:39am |
re: #277 Buck
Except for the fact that everyone would expect corporations to have to bid for business. Unions don't have to do that. There is no competing for Union contracts.
If you are making a claim that all union contracts are of the no-bid variety, I'm going to flatly state to you that you are lying out of your ass.
| 295 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Tue, May 22, 2012 8:59:41am |
re: #292 Buck
Well, for a guy who is usually all about "Prove it", you seem to have no problem with "what they are secretly doing" now.
Walker is all about the Budget and economy in WI. That is what is best for everyone in WI. Look to what has happened in California for an example of letting the Unions run things.
I posted a video two weeks ago that shows Walker explicitly stating that he wants to break the power of the unions and make WI a right-to-work state. If you want, I can go and dig it up, but I already know you are going to handwave it away.
| 296 |
jamesfirecat Tue, May 22, 2012 8:59:43am |
re: #292 Buck
Well, for a guy who is usually all about "Prove it", you seem to have no problem with "what they are secretly doing" now.
Walker is all about the Budget and economy in WI. That is what is best for everyone in WI. Look to what has happened in California for an example of letting the Unions run things.
I'm not saying it's being secretly done now Buck, I'm saying that it's the natural progression of things.
Also what did denying gay people the right to see their partners in the hospital have to do with fixing the budget?
| 297 |
Buck Tue, May 22, 2012 9:00:01am |
re: #293 RadicalModerate
If you are making a claim that all union contracts are of the no-bid variety, I'm going to flatly state to you that you are lying out of your ass.
Please look up WEA Trust. We are specifically talking about WI.
| 298 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, May 22, 2012 9:00:13am |
re: #27 freetoken
BTW, finally got from the library (after starting out on the waiting list at over #300) Stephen Kings "11/22/63" and finished it this afternoon.
My take: interesting in parts (and I can see a good screen play in there) but too long. It could be pared back to a good 200 page novella I think. The current writing is bogged down with King having to "hang a lantern" on the plot holes inherent with this type of sci-fi/fantasy, and with the change in reader's perspective from being omniscient to reading a diary.
I guess we differ in that I enjoy King's prose as such. I usually find his thickest books the best, though Under the Dome's ending was underwhelming.
| 299 |
Simply Sarah Tue, May 22, 2012 9:00:27am |
Do unions have an agenda? Of course they do. In theory, it is to do what is best for their members (In practice this isn't always true, but that's an entirely different can of worms), so looking out for their interests is exactly what you'd expect them to be doing. Can they get too much power? Sure, but the solution to that isn't to blow them up. It's to negotiate with them better.
| 300 |
sattv4u2 Tue, May 22, 2012 9:00:51am |
re: #294 Gus
The Willie Horton ad campaign was a big old racist dog whistle.
no. What the intent was to show how soft Dukakis was on crime and sentencing
The State inmate furlough program was actually signed into law by Republican Governor Francis W. Sargent in 1972. However, under Sargent, convicted first-degree murderers were not eligible for furlough. After the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court ruled that this right extended to first-degree murderers, the Massachusetts legislature quickly passed a bill prohibiting furloughs for such inmates. However, in 1976, Dukakis vetoed this bill arguing it would 'cut the heart out of efforts at inmate rehabilitation'.[5
| 301 |
Buck Tue, May 22, 2012 9:01:43am |
re: #293 RadicalModerate
If you are making a claim that all union contracts are of the no-bid variety, I'm going to flatly state to you that you are lying out of your ass.
Also, when it come time to negotiate the teachers contract with the union, do you really think the State can ask for multiple bids?
| 302 |
jaunte Tue, May 22, 2012 9:02:11am |
| 303 |
Lidane Tue, May 22, 2012 9:02:27am |
re: #294 Gus
The Willie Horton ad campaign was a big old racist dog whistle.
Dog whistle? That shit was an air raid siren of racist fail.
It was also effective, which is why the GOP still relies on those tactics now.
| 304 |
jamesfirecat Tue, May 22, 2012 9:02:35am |
re: #301 Buck
Also, when it come time to negotiate the teachers contract with the union, do you really think the State can ask for multiple bids?
Do you really think teachers in Wisconsin are being paid too much? Because if you don't why is this an issue?
| 305 |
darthstar Tue, May 22, 2012 9:03:16am |
re: #291 sattv4u2
On June 6, 1986, he was released as part of a weekend furlough program but did not return. On April 3, 1987...
I lived in Massachusetts at the time.
Long weekend.
We'll never get that 85 years back.
And I stand corrected.
| 306 |
Lidane Tue, May 22, 2012 9:03:20am |
re: #304 jamesfirecat
Do you really think teachers in Wisconsin are being paid too much? Because if you don't why is this an issue?
Because of reasons, that's why. =P
| 307 |
Simply Sarah Tue, May 22, 2012 9:03:30am |
re: #300 sattv4u2
no. What the intent was to show how soft Dukakis was on crime and sentencing
The State inmate furlough program was actually signed into law by Republican Governor Francis W. Sargent in 1972. However, under Sargent, convicted first-degree murderers were not eligible for furlough. After the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court ruled that this right extended to first-degree murderers, the Massachusetts legislature quickly passed a bill prohibiting furloughs for such inmates. However, in 1976, Dukakis vetoed this bill arguing it would 'cut the heart out of efforts at inmate rehabilitation'.[5
OK, great. Horton should have never be let out. But is blaming all that on the system and Dukakis even remotely reasonable? By this logic everyone calling for stringing up all the bankers is in the right. If a system screws up, it may or may not mean the system is broken. It can also just mean it needs some tweaks or, as much as people don't like to consider it, sometimes shit just happens.
| 308 |
Henchman Ghazi-808 Tue, May 22, 2012 9:03:40am |
re: #301 Buck
Also, when it come time to negotiate the teachers contract with the union, do you really think the State can ask for multiple bids?
So you think there should be more unions then, so they can compete with each other?
| 309 |
sattv4u2 Tue, May 22, 2012 9:03:59am |
| 310 |
Mattand Tue, May 22, 2012 9:04:31am |
re: #300 sattv4u2
no. What the intent was to show how soft Dukakis was on crime and sentencing
Just like the birthers only have questions about Obama's background.
| 311 |
Buck Tue, May 22, 2012 9:06:24am |
re: #296 jamesfirecat
I'm not saying it's being secretly done now Buck, I'm saying that it's the natural progression of things.
Also what did denying gay people the right to see their partners in the hospital have to do with fixing the budget?
The whole same sex marriage debate is another issue that has been going on for a long time. I strongly support SSM and have for all of my adult life. Unlike some that needed to recently evolve. Like it or not this issue will be resolved in the courts.
| 312 |
jamesfirecat Tue, May 22, 2012 9:08:11am |
re: #311 Buck
The whole same sex marriage debate is another issue that has been going on for a long time. I strongly support SSM and have for all of my adult life. Unlike some that needed to recently evolve. Like it or not this issue will be resolved in the courts.
Your support of SSM is well known.
Is there anything a candidate could do on the issue of LGBT people that would cause you not to vote for them?
| 313 |
RadicalModerate Tue, May 22, 2012 9:08:27am |
re: #297 Buck
Please look up WEA Trust. We are specifically talking about WI.
This WEA Trust?
The non-profit insurance provider for Wisconsin Teachers who were approved to cover them back in 1970?
Oh, and who have had to submit bids for coverage just like every other insurance provider?
[Link: www.weatrust.com...]
| 314 |
Gus Tue, May 22, 2012 9:08:32am |
re: #300 sattv4u2
no. What the intent was to show how soft Dukakis was on crime and sentencing
The State inmate furlough program was actually signed into law by Republican Governor Francis W. Sargent in 1972. However, under Sargent, convicted first-degree murderers were not eligible for furlough. After the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court ruled that this right extended to first-degree murderers, the Massachusetts legislature quickly passed a bill prohibiting furloughs for such inmates. However, in 1976, Dukakis vetoed this bill arguing it would 'cut the heart out of efforts at inmate rehabilitation'.[5
Sorry. I didn't make myself clear. The Willie Horton ad campaign was 100 percent racially motivated.
| 315 |
Buck Tue, May 22, 2012 9:08:42am |
re: #308 Kronocide
I think that unions do not have to submit to a multiple bid process when it comes time for contract negotiation.
| 316 |
Lidane Tue, May 22, 2012 9:10:27am |
re: #315 Buck
So basically, you want more unions so they have to compete with each other.
| 317 |
Henchman Ghazi-808 Tue, May 22, 2012 9:12:19am |
Atwater could hardly believe his good luck. The Willie Horton incident had everything he needed: a black rapist, a white victim and a bleeding-heart Democrat to blame.
| 318 |
Buck Tue, May 22, 2012 9:12:44am |
re: #313 RadicalModerate
This WEA Trust?
The non-profit insurance provider for Wisconsin Teachers who were approved to cover them back in 1970?Oh, and who have had to submit bids for coverage just like every other insurance provider?
[Link: www.weatrust.com...]
Nice, you quote them regarding what they were caught doing. The school administrators are all saying differently.
| 320 |
Simply Sarah Tue, May 22, 2012 9:13:20am |
re: #314 Gus
Sorry. I didn't make myself clear. The Willie Horton ad campaign was 100 percent racially motivated.
Now, where would you get that idea from an ad campaign that basically said "Dukakis let out the scary evil black guy to terrorize white women?"
| 321 |
bubba zanetti Tue, May 22, 2012 9:15:37am |
re: #316 Lidane
So basically, you want more unions so they have to compete with each other.
Why not have the teachers individually bid on getting in a classroom? What could possibly go wrong?
| 322 |
iossarian Tue, May 22, 2012 9:16:11am |
re: #311 Buck
The whole same sex marriage debate is another issue that has been going on for a long time. I strongly support SSM and have for all of my adult life. Unlike some that needed to recently evolve. Like it or not this issue will be resolved in the courts.
Do you think that conservative or liberal justices are more likely to make favorable rulings on marriage equality?
| 323 |
Simply Sarah Tue, May 22, 2012 9:16:13am |
re: #316 Lidane
So basically, you want more unions so they have to compete with each other.
I'm all for unions so long as they don't act like unions.
/
| 324 |
Buck Tue, May 22, 2012 9:16:43am |
re: #316 Lidane
So basically, you want more unions so they have to compete with each other.
You keep telling me what I want. Where are you getting that from? There is no process for unions to compete in the way that I have described multiple times.
| 325 |
darthstar Tue, May 22, 2012 9:17:07am |
Wow...you know you're fucked when this guy calls you a fraud.
Says this guy: twitpic.com/9o1zhf RT @CitizenCohn: Dukakis on Romney: "He's a fraud."— Andrew Kaczynski (@BuzzFeedAndrew) May 22, 2012
| 326 |
jamesfirecat Tue, May 22, 2012 9:17:46am |
re: #324 Buck
You keep telling me what I want. Where are you getting that from? There is no process for unions to compete in the way that I have described multiple times.
Then are you against Unions in general or do you have a solution to this aspect of them you don't like and if so, what is it?
| 327 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, May 22, 2012 9:18:47am |
[Link: www.insidepolitics.org...]
Caught between their need to place negative information about Dukakis before the public and their desire to avoid a backlash against going on the attack, Bush operatives decided on a two-track system. The official campaign would attack Dukakis' crime credentials and record as governor of Massachusetts. The public would have to be educated about the deficiencies of the "Massachusetts Miracle." Ads would be broadcast and speeches delivered emphasizing previously-unknown information about Governor Dukakis.
At the same time, however, taking advantage of a loophole in campaign finance rules, outside groups would run a second campaign that was much tougher. The outside track would feature "brass knuckles" tactics that would appeal to the basest instincts of the American public on the subject of race. This unauthorized and uncoordinated campaign would say things and run advertisements that could not be said by the official Bush organization.
Sounds familiar?
| 328 |
Gus Tue, May 22, 2012 9:19:12am |
re: #325 darthstar
Wow...you know you're fucked when this guy calls you a fraud.
[Embedded content]
Dukakis was in the army for two years (1955-1957). That's more than your average right-wing chickenhawk.
| 329 |
Buck Tue, May 22, 2012 9:19:23am |
re: #322 iossarian
Do you think that conservative or liberal justices are more likely to make favorable rulings on marriage equality?
I think that the Constitution will rise to clear this up, and would have many years ago if not for DOMA. I do not think that it is something to be voted on, but should make it's way through the courts. I do not think that this about laying it off on the States (the way the President does).
| 330 |
Lidane Tue, May 22, 2012 9:20:33am |
re: #324 Buck
There is no process for unions to compete in the way that I have described multiple times.
Ah. So what you're asking for, then, is a process where unions have to compete with each other for bids. I mean, it's not like you're saying that unions shouldn't exist at all, right? And that only corporations are qualified to do things because they "compete" with the unions?
After all, it's not like unions have ever done anything for workers in this country. Nope. Not at all. ///
| 331 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, May 22, 2012 9:20:34am |
re: #329 Buck
I think that the Constitution will rise to clear this up
Not unless it's living and breathing...
| 332 |
Buck Tue, May 22, 2012 9:20:44am |
re: #326 jamesfirecat
Then are you against Unions in general or do you have a solution to this aspect of them you don't like and if so, what is it?
I am pointing out the huge difference between private and Union political donations.
| 333 |
darthstar Tue, May 22, 2012 9:20:51am |
re: #328 Gus
Dukakis was in the army for two years (1955-1957). That's more than your average right-wing chickenhawk.
I actually didn't mind Dukakis...I was just afraid he'd paint every other column on the White House blue and that his mother would run a clothesline across the east lawn.
| 334 |
iossarian Tue, May 22, 2012 9:21:17am |
re: #329 Buck
I think that the Constitution will rise to clear this up, and would have many years ago if not for DOMA. I do not think that it is something to be voted on, but should make it's way through the courts. I do not think that this about laying it off on the States (the way the President does).
Buck, we've had this argument before, and I'm going to jump over the part where I point out the logical fallacies in your position, because I'm tired of that process.
I'm going to go straight to the part where I say: "you're either deliberately obtuse or really, really stupid."
| 335 |
Lidane Tue, May 22, 2012 9:21:33am |
re: #332 Buck
There's no difference, unless you're saying that corporations are altruists and that unions are evil.
| 336 |
Vicious Babushka Tue, May 22, 2012 9:22:18am |
re: #332 Buck
I am pointing out the huge difference between private and Union political donations.
Yeah, like, the super PAC donations are something like 25 times higher than union donations.
| 337 |
jamesfirecat Tue, May 22, 2012 9:22:36am |
re: #329 Buck
I think that the Constitution will rise to clear this up, and would have many years ago if not for DOMA. I do not think that it is something to be voted on, but should make it's way through the courts. I do not think that this about laying it off on the States (the way the President does).
How do you feel about the fact that Mitt Romney is against gay marriage, civil unions and would pursue a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage?
| 338 |
Buck Tue, May 22, 2012 9:22:40am |
re: #330 Lidane
Ah. So what you're asking for, then, is a process where unions have to compete with each other for bids. I mean, it's not like you're saying that unions shouldn't exist at all, right? And that only corporations are qualified to do things because they "compete" with the unions?
After all, it's not like unions have ever done anything for workers in this country. Nope. Not at all. ///
I don't understand what you are saying at all. You are asking questions sarcastically, thinking that I agree with those statements? I don't understand your point.
| 339 |
jamesfirecat Tue, May 22, 2012 9:22:59am |
re: #332 Buck
I am pointing out the huge difference between private and Union political donations.
What do you want to do about it?
| 340 |
Buck Tue, May 22, 2012 9:23:03am |
re: #336 Learned Mother of Zion
Yeah, like, the super PAC donations are something like 25 times higher than union donations.
Simply not true.
| 341 |
Simply Sarah Tue, May 22, 2012 9:23:12am |
re: #335 Lidane
There's no difference, unless you're saying that corporations are altruists and that unions are evil.
Don't you remember when Lex and the Joker helped form the Union of Evil?
/
| 342 |
Four More Tears Tue, May 22, 2012 9:23:31am |
Guys, you really need to shut down the troll buffet you're putting out.
| 344 |
iossarian Tue, May 22, 2012 9:24:44am |
re: #337 jamesfirecat
How do you feel about the fact that Mitt Romney is against gay marriage, civil unions and would pursue a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage?
Trivial details. Buck has the almighty power of the constitution on his side, which even as we speak is striking down all those pesky anti-abortion laws that Republicans keep on passing.
Abortion cannot be restricted by legislation. TRUEFACT.
Marriage equality will magically happen regardless of who gets elected. TRUEFACT.
| 345 |
jamesfirecat Tue, May 22, 2012 9:25:00am |
re: #343 Buck
Allow both of course.
Then why bother pointing out the difference if it doesn't matter?
| 346 |
dragonath Tue, May 22, 2012 9:25:36am |
re: #329 Buck
You could really do something about this back home, where the Harper government unilaterally dissolved LGBT marriages and seems unwilling to move on the issue.
| 347 |
Buck Tue, May 22, 2012 9:25:37am |
re: #337 jamesfirecat
How do you feel about the fact that Mitt Romney is against gay marriage, civil unions and would pursue a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage?
I don't think it matters. I think the Federal courts/SCOTUS will clear it up. Four years ago Obama was against SSM. What difference did that make for you?
| 348 |
Lidane Tue, May 22, 2012 9:26:34am |
re: #338 Buck
You are asking questions sarcastically, thinking that I agree with those statements?
Good for you. You get an internet cookie.
| 349 |
jamesfirecat Tue, May 22, 2012 9:26:50am |
re: #347 Buck
I don't think it matters. I think the Federal courts/SCOTUS will clear it up. Four years ago Obama was against SSM. What difference did that make for you?
If a constitutional amendment gets added then, well the courts can't declare part of the constitutional unconstitutional so no they won't be able to clear it up.
Mitt Romney is pushing a way of making this BEYOND the court's ability to handle.
Does that bother you at all?
Also Obama was always for civil unions which would at least have been a step forward, Mitt Romney is against those as well.
| 350 |
darthstar Tue, May 22, 2012 9:26:58am |
re: #342 It's a cookbook!
Guys, you really need to shut down the troll buffet you're putting out.
Buck's a bit gamey, I know...but not bad for a Canuk.
| 351 |
Buck Tue, May 22, 2012 9:27:28am |
re: #346 Be Zorch, Daddio
You could really do something about something about this back home, where the Harper government unilaterally dissolved LGBT marriages and seems unwilling to move on the issue.
A lie. Not at all what is happening in Canada. Not in anyway representative of what the Harper Government did on SSM legislation.
| 352 |
iossarian Tue, May 22, 2012 9:27:36am |
re: #347 Buck
I don't think it matters. I think the Federal courts/SCOTUS will clear it up. Four years ago Obama was against SSM. What difference did that make for you?
Buck, this is the "really really stupid" part. The way you judge politicians is by the overall direction in which they make things move.
Do you really, truly think that the US would have moved faster towards marriage equality under a Republican administration, than it has in the last four years?
And please, if you do believe that, at least provide some shred of evidence.
| 353 |
palomino Tue, May 22, 2012 9:27:47am |
re: #261 Buck
Well, they believe that the budget is under attack and being looted by the Unions. So they are giving money to try and stop that.
Yes, your side is pure and has only innocent motives. No rich donor on the right expects anything in return from the politicians they get into office. Only on the left, huh?
You're so full of crap that even the conservatives here think you're a douchebag.
| 354 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, May 22, 2012 9:30:39am |
re: #300 sattv4u2
The Willie Horton ad campaign was a big old racist dog whistle.
no.
You say this on what authority?
[Link: www.insidepolitics.org...]
Their first ad did not use the menacing mug shot of Horton that made him look, in the eyes of the ad's creator Larry McCarthy, like "every suburban mother's greatest fear." That picture might arouse the ire of network censors, who could refuse to run controversial ads by independent groups. However, after the ad cleared media scrutiny, McCarthy quietly substituted a second version that graphically cited the Horton case and used the now-controversial mug shot of the felon.
[...]
These ads were effective on the crime issue, but they also held another advantage for Bush. The spots aroused racial fears as well. Owing to Horton's visage, made clear in "Weekend Passes" and network news coverage, race was an obvious factor in how voters saw the crime spree. After all, Republicans had picked the perfect racial crime, that of a black felon raping a white woman.
Experimental research drawing on the Horton case demonstrates that viewers saw the story more as a case of race than crime. According to researchers, subjects who were exposed to news broadcasts about the Horton case responded in racial terms. The ad "mobilized whites' racial prejudice, not their worries about crime." Viewers became much more likely to feel negatively about blacks in general after having heard the details of the case. It was an attack strategy that worked well on several different levels for Republicans.
They knew very well that what they were doing was out of bounds.
| 355 |
iossarian Tue, May 22, 2012 9:30:46am |
re: #351 Buck
A lie. Not at all what is happening in Canada. Not in anyway representative of what the Harper Government did on SSM legislation.
Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper says his government has "no intention" of reopening the national debate on same-sex marriage after a lesbian couple's divorce case cast doubt on the legal status of thousands of couples who wed in Canada.
So basically, a judge threw into doubt the legality of gay people getting married in Canada, and Harper did nothing to counter that move, thus implicitly supporting its effect. Is that about it?
| 356 |
Buck Tue, May 22, 2012 9:31:30am |
re: #349 jamesfirecat
Mitt Romney is pushing a way of making this BEYOND the court's ability to handle.
Actually DOMA was an attempt to do that (signed by Clinton).
If a constitutional amendment gets added then
Someone needs to go to school and find out what needs to be done in order to get a constitutional amendment.
It doesn't happen overnight, and isn't something a President could do without a lot of support from a majority of Americans. As likely as Sharia law being the law of the land.
| 357 |
iossarian Tue, May 22, 2012 9:32:15am |
re: #356 Buck
It doesn't happen overnight, and isn't something a President could do without a lot of support from a majority of Americans. As likely as Sharia law being the law of the land.
Do you think that having a president who wants to go down that path makes it more, or less, likely to happen?
| 358 |
jamesfirecat Tue, May 22, 2012 9:33:59am |
re: #356 Buck
Actually DOMA was an attempt to do that (signed by Clinton).
Someone needs to go to school and find out what needs to be done in order to get a constitutional amendment.
It doesn't happen overnight, and isn't something a President could do without a lot of support from a majority of Americans. As likely as Sharia law being the law of the land.
So you support Gay Marriage... you just don't support it enough to ever care about if the politicians you support also support it or not, is that right?
If that isn't correct please go back to my earlier question in 312....
Is there anything a candidate could do on the issue of LGBT people that would cause you not to vote for them?
| 359 |
Simply Sarah Tue, May 22, 2012 9:34:23am |
re: #355 iossarian
So basically, a judge threw into doubt the legality of gay people getting married in Canada, and Harper did nothing to counter that move, thus implicitly supporting its effect. Is that about it?
In all fairness, while Harper most certainly does want to slow edge towards rolling back same-sex marriage in Canada, this particular case was about foreigners getting married in Canada, not Canadian citizens getting married. It was still a nasty situation and Harper had to do some backtracking quickly, but it wasn't quite the same as trying to actually end SSM in Canada.
| 360 |
Buck Tue, May 22, 2012 9:35:13am |
re: #355 iossarian
So basically, a judge threw into doubt the legality of gay people getting married in Canada, and Harper did nothing to counter that move, thus implicitly supporting its effect. Is that about it?
NO NO NO. The law is PRO SSM and Harper is doing nothing to change that. You have it backwards.
That case you are talking about is a couple who got married in Canada, but was from a state in the USA that didn't recognise their marriage. The discussion was that they didn't have to get legally divorced in their state because they were never recognized as married in their state. Well, DUH!
Harper is saying that he NOT going to change the law in Canada. It is PRO SSM now, and he is saying he will do nothing to change it.
| 361 |
Four More Tears Tue, May 22, 2012 9:35:25am |
Tom Cruise saddles up for 'Magnificent Seven' remake
Fuck you, Hollywood. Fuck you.
| 362 |
Gus Tue, May 22, 2012 9:36:16am |
re: #361 It's a cookbook!
Tom Cruise saddles up for 'Magnificent Seven' remake
Fuck you, Hollywood. Fuck you.
I long for the days when they used to make original movies and movies for adults.
| 363 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Tue, May 22, 2012 9:37:51am |
re: #361 It's a cookbook!
Tom Cruise saddles up for 'Magnificent Seven' remake
Fuck you, Hollywood. Fuck you.
Tom Cruise, really? Ugh. I long for the day where I never have to see his ugly mug in another movie.
| 364 |
iossarian Tue, May 22, 2012 9:38:16am |
re: #358 jamesfirecat
So you support Gay Marriage... you just don't support it enough to ever care about if the politicians you vote for support it or not, is that right?
If that isn't correct please go back to my earlier question in 312...
Is there anything a candidate could do on the issue of LGBT people that would cause you not to vote for them?
As much as I always get sucked into this argument with Buck, I do think it's a bit pointless. He won't ever admit that politicians actually influence policy in this area.
Which is a bit strange to say the least. It's the same argument he always uses in the abortion argument as well.re: #360 Buck
That case you are talking about is a couple who got married in Canada, but was from a state in the USA that didn't recognise their marriage. The discussion was that they didn't have to get legally divorced in their state because they were never recognized as married in their state. Well, DUH!
Not quite. Again, from the article:
The document reportedly cited a Department of Justice lawyer who said the couple's marriage is not considered legal in Canada because they would not have been lawfully wed in Florida or England, their respective homes.
Why would the legality of marriage in a different country affect whether a marriage was considered legal in the country in which it was performed?
I assume that if a man and a woman are married in Canada, that marriage is considered legal there even if they are not from Canada. People get married in foreign countries quite often.
| 365 |
Lidane Tue, May 22, 2012 9:38:49am |
The man's been POTUS for over three goddamn years. Ran for the office before that. What. The. FUCK.
Fox News President: ‘We Still Don’t Know Anything About Obama’
This is why the American right wing is in a steep intellectual decline. This sort of bullshit ignorance is being fed to them on a daily basis by Faux News, the RWNJ blogs and the howler monkeys on talk radio.
| 366 |
Buck Tue, May 22, 2012 9:38:50am |
re: #358 jamesfirecat
So you support Gay Marriage... you just don't support it enough to ever care about if the politicians you support also support it or not, is that right?
I have been very clear. The President does not decide if SSM is legal in the USA or not. I mean he could, but neither Obama or Romney will.
| 367 |
Vicious Babushka Tue, May 22, 2012 9:39:01am |
re: #363 thedopefishlives
Tom Cruise, really? Ugh. I long for the day where I never have to see his ugly mug in another movie.
Who is that guy who plays the dwarf in "Game of Thrones"? I'll bet he could play any role that Tom Cruise could play and do it better.
| 368 |
Simply Sarah Tue, May 22, 2012 9:39:27am |
re: #365 Lidane
The man's been POTUS for over three goddamn years. Ran for the office before that. What. The. FUCK.
Fox News President: ‘We Still Don’t Know Anything About Obama’
This is why the American right wing is in a steep intellectual decline. This sort of bullshit ignorance is being fed to them on a daily basis by Faux News, the RWNJ blogs and the howler monkeys on talk radio.
See, if he had said "We still don't know anything about Romney," I might have agreed with him.
| 369 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, May 22, 2012 9:40:06am |
re: #358 jamesfirecat
So you support Gay Marriage...
I'll give him credit for that at least, even if he supports it "in theory". Supporting marriage equality is still a rare thing for a conservative.
| 370 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Tue, May 22, 2012 9:40:32am |
re: #367 Learned Mother of Zion
Who is that guy who plays the dwarf in "Game of Thrones"? I'll bet he could play any role that Tom Cruise could play and do it better.
A well-trained chimpanzee could do the same.
| 371 |
iossarian Tue, May 22, 2012 9:40:52am |
re: #366 Buck
I have been very clear. The President does not decide if SSM is legal in the USA or not. I mean he could, but neither Obama or Romney will.
Buck, how do you explain the massive roll-back of abortion rights that is going on in the US via Republican legislation, given that politicians don't affect these rights in any way?
| 372 |
jamesfirecat Tue, May 22, 2012 9:41:06am |
re: #366 Buck
I have been very clear. The President does not decide if SSM is legal in the USA or not. I mean he could, but neither Obama or Romney will.
Who decides in you opinion?
If it is the courts then shouldn't the fact that the president gets to pick nominees to the highest court in the land mean that in point of fact his views on gay marriage do matter?
| 373 |
Buck Tue, May 22, 2012 9:41:19am |
re: #364 iossarian
I assume that if a man and a woman are married in Canada, that marriage is considered legal there even if they are not from Canada. People get married in foreign countries quite often.
Try and follow this. They got married in Canada, BUT NEVER LIVED IN CANADA. Their marriage is recognized IN CANADA, but not in FLORIDA. What law should Harper pass to make the marriage recognized in FLORIDA?
| 374 |
Buck Tue, May 22, 2012 9:42:37am |
re: #372 jamesfirecat
Who decides in you opinion?
If it is the courts then shouldn't the fact that the president gets to pick nominees to the highest court in the land mean that in point of fact his views on gay marriage do matter?
I do not believe that the judges on the SCOTUS will decide such a thing based on who their political masters are.
| 375 |
Gus Tue, May 22, 2012 9:42:50am |
Even #RedNecks have had enough? #Mitt Mitt Mitt, you are going to need a LOT of luck yfrog.com/esq5yuyj
— CaptivatingNews (@CaptivatingNews) May 22, 2012
| 376 |
Simply Sarah Tue, May 22, 2012 9:43:16am |
re: #373 Buck
Try and follow this. They got married in Canada, BUT NEVER LIVED IN CANADA. Their marriage is recognized IN CANADA, but not in FLORIDA. What law should Harper pass to make the marriage recognized in FLORIDA?
That is incorrect. From the linked article:
Harper's comments came in response to a Globe and Mail report, which cited a Department of Justice document filed in a Toronto test case that stated a lesbian couple, who wed in Toronto in 2005, cannot file for divorce as they were never legally married. The document reportedly cited a Department of Justice lawyer who said the couple's marriage is not considered legal in Canada because they would not have been lawfully wed in Florida or England, their respective homes.
| 377 |
iossarian Tue, May 22, 2012 9:43:51am |
re: #373 Buck
Try and follow this. They got married in Canada, BUT NEVER LIVED IN CANADA. Their marriage is recognized IN CANADA, but not in FLORIDA. What law should Harper pass to make the marriage recognized in FLORIDA?
I'm just reading from the article:
The document reportedly cited a Department of Justice lawyer who said the couple's marriage is not considered legal in Canada because they would not have been lawfully wed in Florida or England, their respective homes.
The question is whether the marriage is legal in Canada, and the article suggests that the ruling includes a statement that it is not. I fully agree that the Canadian government has no say in whether the marriage is legal anywhere else.
| 378 |
jamesfirecat Tue, May 22, 2012 9:44:01am |
re: #374 Buck
I do not believe that the judges on the SCOTUS will decide such a thing based on who their political masters are.
So you believe that say Anton Scalia is just as likely to vote for gay marriage as say Sonia Sotomayor?
| 379 |
iossarian Tue, May 22, 2012 9:44:57am |
re: #374 Buck
I do not believe that the judges on the SCOTUS will decide such a thing based on who their political masters are.
Do you not think the justices make decisions based on their personal politics?
Do you think that having more conservative justices is more or less likely to hinder the advancement of marriage equality?
| 380 |
iossarian Tue, May 22, 2012 9:45:57am |
re: #378 jamesfirecat
So you believe that say Anton Scalia is just as likely to vote for gay marriage as say Sonia Sotomayor?
Like I said: deliberately obtuse or really, really stupid.
| 381 |
lawhawk Tue, May 22, 2012 9:46:45am |
re: #361 It's a cookbook!
And while Magnificent Seven is a reimagining of Kurosawa's Seven Samurai, it is a classic in its own right. Frankly, there's no one actor out there who could hold a candle to either Yul Brenner or Steve McQueen in that movie. Then think about the supporting cast - Charles Bronson, Eli Wallach, Robert Vaughn, and James Coburn. Find me seven current actors in their prime who have that kind of gravitas... not gonna do it.
Nothing stops Hollywood from cannibalizing its old films. They've already tried making it a series on TV with Michael Biehn, Eric Close, and Ron Perlman and that follows three Magnificent Seven sequels (Return of the Seven, Guns of the Magnificent Seven, and The Magnificent Seven Ride) which are pretty much forgettable.
Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if someone tried shopping a remake of Gone With the Wind. We've already seen several attempts at parts of the Wizard of Oz story - (Return to Oz; Broadway's Wicked, etc.)
Remakes are easy to do because the material is already a known quantity and considered less of a financial risk for the studios. But just because people are familiar with it doesn't mean that it should be remade.
| 382 |
lawhawk Tue, May 22, 2012 9:47:45am |
re: #367 Learned Mother of Zion
Peter Dinklage? Great actor. Not even in the same ballpark. Heck, not even the same sport to compare the two.
| 383 |
Buck Tue, May 22, 2012 9:48:58am |
re: #376 Simply Sarah
That is incorrect. From the linked article:
Harper's comments came in response to a Globe and Mail report, which cited a Department of Justice document filed in a Toronto test case that stated a lesbian couple, who wed in Toronto in 2005, cannot file for divorce as they were never legally married. The document reportedly cited a Department of Justice lawyer who said the couple's marriage is not considered legal in Canada because they would not have been lawfully wed in Florida or England, their respective homes.
They DON'T have to file for divorce. Anyway, this was an opinion about a couple who never lived in Canada. The question was if the Canadian Judge had the authority to grant a divorce for someone who didn't live in the jurisdiction. How could the Canadian judge enforce the decree in Florida? Where the marriage is not recognized, and therefore the divorce would also not be recognized. If they lived in Canada their marriage would be recognized by Canada.
SSM is legal in Canada. And became legal under a Conservative government.
| 384 |
lawhawk Tue, May 22, 2012 9:50:01am |
re: #374 Buck
Then you really haven't been paying attention. The conservatives on the court aren't likely to rule in favor of SSM (on plain language of the constitution - it isn't listed so it isn't a right) just as the liberals on the court are likely to rule in favor of SSM on equal protection grounds (the Constitution isn't constrained by enumerated rights, but grants a more broad list of rights).
| 385 |
Buck Tue, May 22, 2012 9:50:19am |
re: #377 iossarian
I'm just reading from the article:
The question is whether the marriage is legal in Canada, and the article suggests that the ruling includes a statement that it is not. I fully agree that the Canadian government has no say in whether the marriage is legal anywhere else.
The article is wrong on the facts. I have explained it.
| 386 |
Buck Tue, May 22, 2012 9:51:12am |
re: #384 lawhawk
Then you really haven't been paying attention. The conservatives on the court aren't likely to rule in favor of SSM (on plain language of the constitution - it isn't listed so it isn't a right) just as the liberals on the court are likely to rule in favor of SSM on equal protection grounds (the Constitution isn't constrained by enumerated rights, but grants a more broad list of rights).
We disagree. Time will tell who is right.
| 387 |
jamesfirecat Tue, May 22, 2012 9:52:05am |
re: #386 Buck
We disagree. Time will tell who is right.
If when gay marriage goes before the supreme court all four of the reliably conservative judges vote "no" on it will you admit you were wrong?
| 388 |
iossarian Tue, May 22, 2012 9:52:09am |
re: #383 Buck
They DON'T have to file for divorce. Anyway, this was an opinion about a couple who never lived in Canada. The question was if the Canadian Judge had the authority to grant a divorce for someone who didn't live in the jurisdiction. How could the Canadian judge enforce the decree in Florida? Where the marriage is not recognized, and therefore the divorce would also not be recognized. If they lived in Canada their marriage would be recognized by Canada.
SSM is legal in Canada. And became legal under a Conservative government.
Buck, find me one quote from the wikipedia page that suggests that the Conservatives supported marriage equality legislation in Canada:
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
Just one. Or get lost.
| 389 |
iossarian Tue, May 22, 2012 9:54:14am |
re: #386 Buck
We disagree. Time will tell who is right.
So that's the extent of your support for marriage equality? We provide you with a bunch of evidence that your votes are likely to hinder its advance, but you just say "time will tell"? With nothing to back up your position?
Lame. A bit like supporting a woman's right to a safe abortion, but voting for people who want to take that right away.
Oh wait.
| 390 |
Buck Tue, May 22, 2012 9:57:59am |
re: #388 iossarian
It was introduced as Bill C-38 in the first session of the 38th Canadian Parliament. If you understand the Parliamentary system, then you understand that the Conservative Party was in power at that time. The Prime Minister brought it to a vote, and allowed a free vote from his members.
That is who brought the bill to Parliament, that is who passed it, that is who continues to support it.
| 391 |
Simply Sarah Tue, May 22, 2012 9:59:21am |
re: #383 Buck
They DON'T have to file for divorce. Anyway, this was an opinion about a couple who never lived in Canada. The question was if the Canadian Judge had the authority to grant a divorce for someone who didn't live in the jurisdiction. How could the Canadian judge enforce the decree in Florida? Where the marriage is not recognized, and therefore the divorce would also not be recognized. If they lived in Canada their marriage would be recognized by Canada.
SSM is legal in Canada. And became legal under a Conservative government.
Wow, you've motorized the goalposts. How convenient.
Also, you're wrong, wrong, wrong about SSM becoming legal under a Conservative government. Re Same-Sex Marriage was requested by and handed down during Martin's Liberal government and it was his government that passed the Civil Marriage Act. After Harper took over in 2006, his government held a vote on finding a way to reverse SSM (Which wouldn't have done anything since he'd have had to have used the notwithstanding clause to have any such bill stick). You're the Canadian, I'm the American, you might want to do a better job following the politics of your own country.
| 392 |
iossarian Tue, May 22, 2012 10:01:15am |
re: #390 Buck
It was introduced as Bill C-38 in the first session of the 38th Canadian Parliament. If you understand the Parliamentary system, then you understand that the Conservative Party was in power at that time. The Prime Minister brought it to a vote, and allowed a free vote from his members.
That is who brought the bill to Parliament, that is who passed it, that is who continues to support it.
From Wikipedia again:
The 38th Canadian Parliament was in session from October 4, 2004 until November 29, 2005. The membership was set by the 2004 federal election on June 28, 2004, and it changed only somewhat due to resignations and by-elections, but due to the seat distribution, those few changes significantly affected the distribution of power. It was dissolved prior to the 2006 election.
It was controlled by a Liberal Party minority under Prime Minister Paul Martin and the 27th Canadian Ministry. The Official Opposition was the Conservative Party, led by Stephen Harper.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
And again, on the bill itself:
As a government bill, C-38 represented the official position of Paul Martin's Liberal government, and the cabinet were thus bound to vote in its favour.
You're full of shite, Buck.
| 393 |
Simply Sarah Tue, May 22, 2012 10:02:32am |
re: #390 Buck
It was introduced as Bill C-38 in the first session of the 38th Canadian Parliament. If you understand the Parliamentary system, then you understand that the Conservative Party was in power at that time. The Prime Minister brought it to a vote, and allowed a free vote from his members.
That is who brought the bill to Parliament, that is who passed it, that is who continues to support it.
Oh FFS. You might want to work on your understanding of your own parliamentary system, since the 38th Canadian Parliament was led by the Liberal Prime Minister Paul Martin. The free vote was in the 39th over reopening the issue.
| 394 |
iossarian Tue, May 22, 2012 10:03:44am |
re: #393 Simply Sarah
Oh FFS. You might want to work on your understanding of your own parliamentary system, since the 38th Canadian Parliament was led by the Liberal Prime Minister Paul Martin. The free vote was in the 39th over reopening the issue.
I'm expanding my list of possiblities:
- deliberately obtuse
- really really stupid
- cynical troll
| 395 |
Buck Tue, May 22, 2012 10:06:54am |
re: #391 Simply Sarah
OK, I am doing to many things at once. You are right 2005 was a Liberal government.
However my point stands, as he promised Harper has not reopened the debate. SSM marriage is still legal in CANADA despite the article in HuffPoo
| 396 |
Simply Sarah Tue, May 22, 2012 10:07:24am |
re: #394 iossarian
I'm expanding my list of possiblities:
- deliberately obtuse
- really really stupid
- cynical troll
Perhaps just shocked that an American might actually have an interest in the goings on in other countries, especially on issues like SSM in which she has a personal interest.
| 397 |
Buck Tue, May 22, 2012 10:08:05am |
re: #396 Simply Sarah
Perhaps just shocked that an American might actually have an interest in the goings on in other countries, especially on issues like SSM in which she has a personal interest.
No just doing too much at the same time.
| 398 |
iossarian Tue, May 22, 2012 10:08:05am |
re: #395 Buck
OK, I am doing to many things at once. You are right 2005 was a Liberal government.
However my point stands, as he promised Harper has not reopened the debate. SSM marriage is still legal in CANADA despite the article in HuffPoo
Promise? Wikipedia sez:
The Conservative Party, led by Stephen Harper, won a minority government in the federal election on January 23, 2006. Harper had campaigned on the promise of holding a free vote on a motion to re-open the debate on same-sex marriage.
Full. Of. Shite.
| 399 |
Buck Tue, May 22, 2012 10:09:53am |
re: #398 iossarian
Yes, once he did the open vote, he promised to support the results and he has.
| 400 |
Simply Sarah Tue, May 22, 2012 10:10:05am |
re: #398 iossarian
Promise? Wikipedia sez:
Full. Of. Shite.
Buck is talking about now. And he is, in fact, correct that Harper has repeatedly publicly stated that repealing SSM is not an issue under consideration. Now, that doesn't mean I believe Harper in the least, but it likely isn't a political winner at this point, especially if the notwithstanding clause needs to be invoked.
| 401 |
iossarian Tue, May 22, 2012 10:13:26am |
re: #399 Buck
Yes, once he did the open vote, he promised to support the results and he has.
So basically, after he did all that he could to oppose it, and got voted down at every turn, you're now upholding him as a champion of marriage equality.
That's the end of this conversation Buck. I get that you have a hard time reconciling your claim to support marriage equality with your other political views, but really, you're delusional if you think that right-wing politicians are doing anything but oppose marriage equality whenever possible. We've rolled out all the evidence and you've backtracked from virtually all of your claims, including a couple that were out-and-out lies regarding the origin of the bill in question. You're left with basically saying: "well, he couldn't get it cancelled, so I suppose that means he supports it."
You really need to figure out what's in your head. It's a mess at the moment.
| 402 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, May 22, 2012 10:17:18am |
Hard to argue with facts when there is a whole wiki article called "Members of the 39th Canadian Parliament and same-sex marriage":
The Conservative leader, Stephen Harper, who was then leader of the opposition campaigned on holding another free vote on the issue, after one was held in the 38th Parliament to approve the Act. Although Harper expressed a hope to reinstate the opposite-sex only definition of marriage, he promised not to use the notwithstanding clause.
[...]
The Conservatives won enough seats to form a government following the election but Harper, who became Prime Minister, only had enough seats to form a minority government meaning the opposition parties had enough seats to defeat a government motion on same-sex marriage. However, a motion could pass if it could attract enough support from individual opposition MPs in a free vote. The government announced that it would introduce a motion before the end of 2006.
On 7 December 2006, the Canadian House of Commons voted on a motion that read as follows: "That this House call on the government to introduce legislation to restore the traditional definition of marriage without affecting civil unions and while respecting existing same-sex marriages." The motion was defeated by a vote of 123 to 175.[1] Liberal and Conservative parties gave their members permission to vote freely. Thirteen Conservatives voted against the motion, and the same number of Liberals voted in favour.
| 403 |
iossarian Tue, May 22, 2012 10:19:34am |
re: #402 I'm back in the USSR (sigh)
Hard to argue with facts
If there's one thing that LGF has taught me it's that conservatives aren't that fond of facts.
| 404 |
Buck Tue, May 22, 2012 10:20:09am |
re: #401 iossarian
So basically, after he did all that he could to oppose it, and got voted down at every turn, you're now upholding him as a champion of marriage equality.
That's the end of this conversation Buck. I get that you have a hard time reconciling your claim to support marriage equality with your other political views, but really, you're delusional if you think that right-wing politicians are doing anything but oppose marriage equality whenever possible. We've rolled out all the evidence and you've backtracked from virtually all of your claims, including a couple that were out-and-out lies regarding the origin of the bill in question. You're left with basically saying: "well, he couldn't get it cancelled, so I suppose that means he supports it."
You really need to figure out what's in your head. It's a mess at the moment.
If what you think is in my head really was, then I would agree with you.
HOWEVER, what started as a discussion about who is spending money on the WI recall moved to SSM in Canada.
You miss the fact that many conservatives can differ with other conservatives on different issues. Only a blind ideologue would support everything and anything just because Mitt says so.
You seem to want me to be a cartoon character. People are more complicated than that.
| 405 |
jamesfirecat Tue, May 22, 2012 10:21:37am |
re: #404 Buck
If what you think is in my head really was, then I would agree with you.
HOWEVER, what started as a discussion about who is spending money on the WI recall moved to SSM in Canada.
You miss the fact that many conservatives can differ with other conservatives on different issues. Only a blind ideologue would support everything and anything just because Mitt says so.
You seem to want me to be a cartoon character. People are more complicated than that.
No what we want you to do is if you support SSM as much as you say you do, stop supporting politicians hear in America who are anti-LGBT.
| 406 |
Buck Tue, May 22, 2012 10:22:46am |
re: #402 I'm back in the USSR (sigh)
Hard to argue with facts when there is a whole wiki article called "Members of the 39th Canadian Parliament and same-sex marriage":
The fact that I was arguing was that SSM marriage is still legal in Canada. Be Zorch, Daddio was saying that "the Harper government unilaterally dissolved LGBT marriages".
| 407 |
b_sharp Tue, May 22, 2012 10:23:54am |
I haven't followed the debate here, but just in case this hasn't been put forward "Ottawa to change law so same-sex marriages are valid and open to divorce"
| 408 |
b_sharp Tue, May 22, 2012 10:25:01am |
LGBT marriages haven't been touched by the Harper gov't - yet.
| 409 |
iossarian Tue, May 22, 2012 10:25:14am |
re: #404 Buck
You miss the fact that many conservatives can differ with other conservatives on different issues. Only a blind ideologue would support everything and anything just because Mitt says so.
You seem to want me to be a cartoon character. People are more complicated than that.
Look, if you admitted that you disagree with virtually all right-wing politicians on the issue of marriage equality, that would be OK. I mean, I'd still think you were wrong to support them and their bigoted opposition, but as you point out, people are complicated and have multiple opinions.
However, what I can't stand is the lies. The claims that the Conservatives supported marriage equality in Canada when they did everything they could to oppose it and only stopped opposing it overtly when it became clear that there was broad political support for it. The bogus facts in support of your opinion. The denial that politicians can affect policy when the politicians you support happen to disagree with you.
That is what I mean when I say your head is messed up.
Accept that the politicians you support are opposed to gay people getting married and are trying to prevent it from happening. I'll still think your support is misguided but I won't accuse you of being messed up (or at least, not on those grounds).
| 410 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, May 22, 2012 10:25:25am |
re: #402 I'm back in the USSR (sigh)
Hard to argue with facts when there is a whole wiki article called "Members of the 39th Canadian Parliament and same-sex marriage":
---
"That is who brought the bill to Parliament, that is who passed it, that is who continues to support it."
- Liberals, on all three.
| 411 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, May 22, 2012 10:26:40am |
re: #406 Buck
The fact that I was arguing was that SSM marriage is still legal in Canada. Be Zorch, Daddio was saying that "the Harper government unilaterally dissolved LGBT marriages".
That may be so, but in the process you made pretty wild claims of your own which are 180 of truth.
| 412 |
Buck Tue, May 22, 2012 10:33:30am |
re: #411 I'm back in the USSR (sigh)
That may be so, but in the process you made pretty wild claims of your own which are 180 of truth.
Yes, I made one mistake and have acknowledged same. However the initial claim was 180 degrees from the truth.
| 413 |
iossarian Tue, May 22, 2012 10:35:29am |
re: #412 Buck
Yes, I made one mistake
Your mistake was to believe that the Conservatives were the driving force behind the expansion of marriage equality to gay people in Canada, when in fact they were the main opposition to this process, which was instead driven forwards by the Liberals.
A mistake anyone could make, I agree.
| 414 |
Buck Tue, May 22, 2012 10:37:11am |
re: #409 iossarian
The claims that the Conservatives supported marriage equality in Canada when they did everything they could to oppose it and only stopped opposing it overtly when it became clear that there was broad political support for it.
Again, I was doing too many things at once and didn't stop to pay attention to the 2005/2006 claim. I have have acknowledged this.
You seem to want to beat that one point to death.
Be Zorch, Daddio said that "the Harper government unilaterally dissolved LGBT marriages". Was that true? No.
| 415 |
iossarian Tue, May 22, 2012 10:41:08am |
re: #414 Buck
Again, I was doing too many things at once and din't stop to pay attention to the 2005/2006 claim. I have have acknowledged this.
You seem to want to beat that one point to death.
Because it's the root problem, isn't it, Buck. When politicians that you support do bad things, you do all that you can to avoid dealing with it, including, but not limited to, the outright manufacture of positions opposite to the ones they actually took.
You also make the absurd claim that politicians can't affect policy in those areas where you disagree.
It's stupid and it's dangerous. In the US, at the moment, it's forcing mothers to carry horrifically damaged fetuses to term because of politicians' fanaticism. It isn't a stretch to say that it could endanger lives. It certainly endangers mental heath.
Stop doing it. Own the positions these politicians take. We can then productively debate them. But stop hiding behind lies and fairy stories.
| 416 |
Buck Tue, May 22, 2012 10:41:30am |
re: #413 iossarian
when in fact they were the main opposition to this process, which was instead driven forwards by the Liberals.
And you don't have to exaggerate what Harper is doing. He currently has a majority government and despite the liberals fear scaremongering that he would outlaw abortions and SSM, neither has turned out to be true. He isn't a cartoon character either.
| 417 |
b_sharp Tue, May 22, 2012 10:45:15am |
re: #413 iossarian
Your mistake was to believe that the Conservatives were the driving force behind the expansion of marriage equality to gay people in Canada, when in fact they were the main opposition to this process, which was instead driven forwards by the Liberals.
A mistake anyone could make, I agree.
The current incarnation of the Conservatives are an offshoot of the reactionary Reform Party and its offspring the Alliance Party and the more religious of the original PCs. The only reason they have not attacked SSM and abortion is the tough environment of several minority governments. Now that they have a majority, they're just bidding their time until the country swings right enough to give them a winning vote against Ontario.
| 418 |
b_sharp Tue, May 22, 2012 10:46:55am |
re: #416 Buck
And you don't have to exaggerate what Harper is doing. He currently has a majority government and despite the liberals fear scaremongering that he would outlaw abortions and SSM, neither has turned out to be true. He isn't a cartoon character either.
No he isn't, but he is smart enough to see that the country is heading right and he'll have the mandate to reverse SSM and abortion shortly.
| 419 |
iossarian Tue, May 22, 2012 10:47:41am |
re: #416 Buck
And you don't have to exaggerate what Harper is doing. He currently has a majority government and despite the liberals fear scaremongering that he would outlaw abortions and SSM, neither has turned out to be true. He isn't a cartoon character either.
Harper has presumably realized that the political gain to be had from pushing for abortion restrictions or rolling back marriage equality is not sufficient to outweigh the backlash that he would face. I'm not singling him out here, either, since most politicians obviously make these kinds of judgements all the time.
That being said, to say that the average conservative politician is "just as pro-choice" as the average liberal politician, or that voting conservative can never have bad consequences in terms of the right to an abortion or marriage equality is dangerous, as can be seen in the US today.
| 420 |
RogueOne Tue, May 22, 2012 10:56:32am |
Thanks for the kind words everybody. They're very appreciated. He was one of the nicest people I've ever met. We have been friends since I was a senior in HS more than 25 years ago.
re: #165 Learned Mother of Zion
That is awful! What happened?
The assumption is it was either a coronary embolism or a heart attack. He was overweight and had problems with blood clots for years. He woke up early with his wife (a wonderful lady that I set him up with 20 years ago), told her she was working to hard, and fell over dead while she was in the shower.
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