Romney Insists Class Size Is Less Important Than ‘School Choice’

Mitt tells teachers he knows better than they do
Politics • Views: 27,151

Mitt Romney was on the defensive today at an education roundtable in Philadelphia, trying to tell teachers that smaller class sizes are less important than “school choice:” Romney Defends Class Size Stance to Teachers.

(CNN) - Mitt Romney, who is spending this week promoting a plan for America’s public school system, spent Thursday morning defending his stance that smaller class sizes don’t necessarily equate with better learning in schools.

Romney participated in an education roundtable at a charter school in Philadelphia the day after laying out his education plan to Latino small business owners in Washington. Romney’s plan emphasizes school choice over other factors, including efforts to reduce the number of students in classrooms.

Speaking of his time as governor of Massachusetts, Romney said he was frequently told that smaller class sizes would lead to better learning, but that certain studies advised otherwise.

“I came into office and talked to people and said, ‘What can we do to improve our schools?’” Romney said at his Thursday event. “And a number of folks said we need smaller classroom sizes, that will make the biggest difference.”

Romney went on to cite a study that showed no correlation between classroom size and performance, naming schools in Cambridge, Massachusetts as an example.

This is such a common right wing tactic that whenever someone like Romney cites a “study” to support a claim that seems counter-intuitive, you should always double-check to see what credible sources say about the matter. In this case, the fact is that the majority of credible studies show that smaller class sizes absolutely are an important factor in better education results: Education Week Research Center: Class Size:

Research, for the most part, tends to support the belief in the benefits of small classes. While not all studies on the subject have shown that students learn more in smaller settings—and some are still ongoing—most have linked smaller classes to improvements in achievement.

The biggest and most credible of those studies, Tennessee’s statewide Student/Teacher Achievement Ratio, or STAR, project, begun in the late 1970s, found that the learning gains students made in classes of 13 to 17 students persisted long after the students moved back into average-size classes (HEROS, 2011). What’s more, the Tennessee researchers found, poor and African-American students appeared to reap the greatest learning gains in smaller classes. After kindergarten, the gains black students made in smaller classes were typically twice as large as those for whites. Follow-up studies through the years have found the students who had been in small classes in their early years had better academic and personal outcomes throughout their school years and beyond (Krueger, 2001; Sparks, 2011).

Likewise, a 2001 evaluation of the Student Achievement Guarantee in Education, or SAGE, class size reduction program by researchers at the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee found that a five-year-old program of class-size reduction in Wisconsin resulted in higher achievement for children living in poverty. Research from Columbia University Teachers College in New York showed the context of class-size reduction can affect its success in improving student achievement (Ready, 2008). Similarly, Charles M. Achilles, one of the original principal researchers on the STAR study, has said researchers and policymakers will have difficulty replicating the improvements seen in the STAR study without including key elements of that program, such as early intervention and small class sizes of three years or more (Achilles, 2008).

The teachers at Romney’s roundtable meeting were clearly rather aghast at his claims:

“I can’t think of any teacher in the whole time I’ve been teaching, for 10 years, 13 years, who would say that more students would benefit them,” Steven Morris, the teacher, said. “And I can’t think of a parent who would say ‘I would like my student to be in a classroom with a lot of kids with only one teacher.’ So I’m kind of wondering where this research comes from.”

Another teacher participating in the roundtable said unequivocally that he had too many students in his classroom.

“It’s too large,” the second teacher said. “It varies between classes, anywhere between 20 and 28. You can give more personalized attention to each student if you have a smaller class size.”

Why is Romney emphasizing “school choice” over class size, even though most studies disagree with his approach? The most likely answer is that he’s pandering to the religious right again, where “school choice” is a culture warrior code word for religion-based home schooling.

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64 comments
1 Obdicut  Thu, May 24, 2012 12:53:01pm

The only people who think class size doesn't matter are those who think education doesn't matter. So yeah, I think between this and him calling education the 'civil rights' issue of our era, he's doing a full-fledged attack on secular education here.

Seriously, this surprises me. I think pretty badly of Romney, but this is fucking nuts.

2 bratwurst  Thu, May 24, 2012 12:54:29pm

Would be interesting to find out where he stood on this while Governor. I do think that it would be easier to report when he is NOT pandering at this point.

3 erik_t  Thu, May 24, 2012 12:54:35pm

I know better than you about X, because while you may be a professional at doing X, and have been doing X for ten years, I have more money than you. If this isn't a compelling line of argument, then you hate capitalism.

4 elizajane  Thu, May 24, 2012 12:55:58pm

Not about home-schooling, but about channeling taxpayer money to religious schools through voucher programs. Class size is just one of the many regulations from which religious schools are exempt. Catholic schools often have much larger classes than public schools. It's so much less of an issue, you see, when all the fee-paying, church-going parents are heavily invested in their child's behaving well, and you can just expel any child who misbehaves. This is of course the model of school to which the Romneys are accustomed.

5 erik_t  Thu, May 24, 2012 12:56:49pm

re: #4 elizajane

It's so much less of an issue, you see, when all the fee-paying, church-going parents are heavily invested in their child's behaving well, and you can just expel any child who misbehaves. This is of course the model of school to which Romney is accustomed.

80% of the children are extremely successful!

/

6 Mattand  Thu, May 24, 2012 12:56:51pm

Why the hell would anyone tell a bunch of people what's really wrong with their jobs, when that person has zero experience in that field?

It's a reach, but I almost wonder if it's a calculated move to goad the teachers into saying something so Romney can come back and slam teachers' unions. It's sorta been Christie's MO in NJ, and based on my friends and neighbors it works to a degree.

EDIT: Apparently erik_t at #3 is answering my questions as I write them.

7 jaunte  Thu, May 24, 2012 12:57:53pm

"School choice" is one more way to say "cut taxes."

8 Kragar  Thu, May 24, 2012 12:57:56pm

As long as the GOP includes nonsense like creationism and global warming denial as talking points and pander to science deniers, they have nothing to offer on the topic of education.

9 gwangung  Thu, May 24, 2012 12:58:36pm

re: #6 mattand

Why the hell would anyone tell a bunch of people what's really wrong with their jobs, when that person has zero experience in that field?

It's a character trait of Republicans these days.

10 Decatur Deb  Thu, May 24, 2012 12:59:07pm

re: #7 jaunte

"School choice" is one more way to say "cut taxes."

Depends on the accent. Around here it sounds like 'segregation'.

11 wrenchwench  Thu, May 24, 2012 12:59:29pm

Class size is less important than everybody's hair being just the right height length.

12 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, May 24, 2012 1:00:52pm

re: #6 mattand

Why the hell would anyone tell a bunch of people what's really wrong with their jobs, when that person has zero experience in that field?

It's a reach, but I almost wonder if it's calculated move to goad the teachers into so saying something so Romney can come back and slam teachers' unions. It's sorta been Christie's MO in NJ, and based on my friends and neighbors it works to a degree.

Don't cha know that EVERYTHING is the teacher union's fault???

13 dragonath  Thu, May 24, 2012 1:01:28pm

I wonder if Romney has even spoke at a public school (this campaign season)? I'm kind of curious now.

14 erik_t  Thu, May 24, 2012 1:04:31pm

re: #13 Be Zorch, Daddio

I wonder if Romney has even spoke at a public school (this campaign season)? I'm kind of curious now.

I wonder if he's ever set foot in a public school.

15 jaunte  Thu, May 24, 2012 1:06:18pm

If Romney applies his main business experience to schools, he would decide that the work force can be cut to improve efficiency.

16 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, May 24, 2012 1:06:27pm

Ironically, larger class sizes is pushing people out to homeschool.

17 Kragar  Thu, May 24, 2012 1:06:35pm

Speaking of clueless morons.

New York Senate bill seeks to end anonymous internet posting

Introduced by New York State Sen. Thomas F. O'Mara (R—Big Flats), S6779 would require that any anonymous post online is subject to removal if the poster refuses to post — and verify — their legal name, their IP address, and their home address. From the (likely well intentioned) bill (from a senator who clearly does not "get" the internet):

"A web site administrator upon request shall remove any comments posted on his or her web site by an anonymous poster unless such anonymous poster agrees to attach his or her name to the post and confirms that his or her IP address, legal name, and home address are accurate. All web site administrators shall have a contact number or e-mail address posted for such removal requests, clearly visible in any sections where comments are posted."

I can see no negative repercussions from this course of action.
/

18 Simply Sarah  Thu, May 24, 2012 1:07:00pm

Honestly, his whole 'plan' seems, at best, half-baked. "Let kids go to any school in the state!" Great, now how the hell is that supposed to work financially and logistically? How do you handle a 2rd grader from El Paso going to some non-boarding public school 30 minutes outside of Houston? Where will she stay? Who will take care of her? Who will make sure she gets her work done and stays out of trouble? Who will be there in an emergency? How will you pay for all this for every student (Or even limited to minority/low-income students?). This is all without even going into "Will this actually make things any better?"

19 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, May 24, 2012 1:07:12pm

Also, what class size has a lot to do with what class.

The high school band class has 65 students and one teacher, a ratio that would horrify us if it were calculus.

20 erik_t  Thu, May 24, 2012 1:08:56pm

re: #18 Simply Sarah

How will you pay for all this for every student (Or even limited to minority/low-income students?).

/snicker

Easy! But you'll have to fill out the admission forms in triplicate. In Houston. And Dallas. In person, on the same day. Every semester.

This should... fix the glitch.

21 lawhawk  Thu, May 24, 2012 1:09:34pm

re: #17 Kragar

Clueless indeed - but those bills have no chance of success. They're sitting and rotting in committee...

22 dragonath  Thu, May 24, 2012 1:09:53pm

My school had the eternal honor of hosting Dick Fucking Cheney. So I guess schools are useful for cheap speaking gigs.

More "state control" of schools is creepy though, a real bone for the religious right. If Romney gets his way, 20 years from now you'll hear people complaining about the charter schools not being religious enough.

23 Lidane  Thu, May 24, 2012 1:11:10pm

re: #7 jaunte

"School choice" is one more way to say "cut taxes."

And also another way of saying "Kill the Department of Education".

24 Kragar  Thu, May 24, 2012 1:11:30pm

re: #21 lawhawk

Clueless indeed - but those bills have no chance of success. They're sitting and rotting in committee...

The time spent swatting them down is time wasted.

25 Lidane  Thu, May 24, 2012 1:11:33pm

re: #11 wrenchwench

Class size is less important than everybody's hair being just the right height length.

It's all about the trees being the right height.

26 Kragar  Thu, May 24, 2012 1:12:25pm

re: #23 Lidane

And also another way of saying "Kill the Department of Education".

Romney has already promised his big backers that he'll gut that Dept if elected.

27 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, May 24, 2012 1:16:05pm

re: #4 elizajane

Not about home-schooling, but about channeling taxpayer money to religious schools through voucher programs. Class size is just one of the many regulations from which religious schools are exempt. Catholic schools often have much larger classes than public schools. It's so much less of an issue, you see, when all the fee-paying, church-going parents are heavily invested in their child's behaving well, and you can just expel any child who misbehaves. This is of course the model of school to which the Romneys are accustomed.

mmm indoctrination and brainwashing

28 Kragar  Thu, May 24, 2012 1:16:39pm

Romney Specifies Deductions He'd Cut

He also said he would look to the Department of Education and the Department of Housing and Urban Development for budget cuts.

Mr. Romney discussed his plans while speaking to high-dollar donors at a private estate. During the backyard event, which could be heard by reporters outside on a public sidewalk, Mr. Romney offered policy specifics he has yet to unveil on the campaign trail.
...
On Sunday, Mr. Romney said he would look to the education department and HUD for potential cuts. "That might not be around later," Mr. Romney said of HUD.

Mr. Romney said he would either consolidate the education department with another agency or make it "a heck of a lot smaller." "I'm not going to get rid of it entirely," he said.

He also vowed to stand up to teachers unions and warned that unions would funnel dues to Mr. Obama's reelection campaign. "The unions will put in hundreds of millions of dollars," Mr. Romney said. "There's nothing like it on our side," he said, and he encouraged attendees to get their friends to donate, as well.

29 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, May 24, 2012 1:17:55pm

"There's nothing like it on our side!' Except like, everything like it on your side

30 wrenchwench  Thu, May 24, 2012 1:18:32pm

re: #25 Lidane

It's all about the trees being the right height.

...

31 lawhawk  Thu, May 24, 2012 1:18:33pm

re: #24 Kragar

Not really. The NYS Legislature introduces nearly 14,000 bills annually. Only a fraction ever see the light of day. 2,000 are acted upon, with about 800 enacted into law.

Oh, and this is from what is considered a part-time legislature (where members can hold jobs outside even if they may have conflicts of interest).

Having worked in the NYS Assembly, I can say that most bills are stuff along these lines - they're reactionary to something a constituent raises, so they call up bill drafting or their legislative aide in the office to write up something so it can make for a press release (hey, I'm working on the issue by introducing a bill!)

Bill agendas are tightly controlled by the Speaker in the Assembly and the Senate Majority Leader in the Senate - if they don't want something done, it doesn't happen. Period. If you're in the minority in either chamber, your legislation goes nowhere unless someone from the majority coopts it.

32 Kragar  Thu, May 24, 2012 1:19:39pm

re: #29 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]

"There's nothing like it on our side!' Except like, everything like it on your side

Except for oil companies.

Oil companies and banks.

Oil companies and banks and corporate robber barons.

33 wrenchwench  Thu, May 24, 2012 1:20:30pm

When it comes to 'school choice', most people would pick the one with the smallest class size. So it's one of those Moebius arguments.

34 Kragar  Thu, May 24, 2012 1:20:39pm

re: #31 lawhawk

Not really. The NYS Legislature introduces nearly 14,000 bills annually. Only a fraction ever see the light of day. 2,000 are acted upon, with about 800 enacted into law.

Oh, and this is from what is considered a part-time legislature (where members can hold jobs outside even if they may have conflicts of interest).

Having worked in the NYS Assembly, I can say that most bills are stuff along these lines - they're reactionary to something a constituent raises, so they call up bill drafting or their legislative aide in the office to write up something so it can make for a press release (hey, I'm working on the issue by introducing a bill!)

Bill agendas are tightly controlled by the Speaker in the Assembly and the Senate Majority Leader in the Senate - if they don't want something done, it doesn't happen. Period. If you're in the minority in either chamber, your legislation goes nowhere unless someone from the majority coopts it.

You're infringing on my rant and I refuse to listen.
///

35 Kragar  Thu, May 24, 2012 1:21:28pm

Smaller class sizes are just a gimmick thought up by Teacher's unions.
///

36 dragonath  Thu, May 24, 2012 1:22:25pm

The future of public schools in suburbs are gonna suck.

It's like, in every school district people move to because of "good schools", they turn around and vote in knuckle-dragging assholes to the school boards.

"I got mine, fuck you"

37 Mattand  Thu, May 24, 2012 1:22:56pm

re: #28 Kragar

He also vowed to stand up to teachers unions and warned that unions would funnel dues to Mr. Obama's reelection campaign. "The unions will put in hundreds of millions of dollars," Mr. Romney said. "There's nothing like it on our side," he said, and he encouraged attendees to get their friends to donate, as well.

Wow. The Citizens United ruling opens a fucking floodgate of cash for conservative candidates and Mitt is playing victim because the mean ol' teachers unions are out to get the helpless GOP.

Unreal.

38 Lidane  Thu, May 24, 2012 1:24:27pm

re: #37 mattand

Wow. The Citizens United ruling opens a fucking floodgate of cash for conservative candidates and Mitt is playing victim because the mean ol' teachers unions are out to get the helpless GOP.

Unreal.

I think it's hilarious that a multi-millionaire who is being supported by billionaires is complaining about unions raising money for elections.

Self-awareness, he haz none.

39 erik_t  Thu, May 24, 2012 1:25:58pm

re: #37 mattand

Wow. The Citizens United ruling opens a fucking floodgate of cash for conservative candidates and Mitt is playing victim because the mean ol' teachers unions are out to get the helpless GOP.

Unreal.

This, you see, is why we have to cut teacher wages. That way they won't swamp all of the multimillionaire candidates with their five- and ten-dollar donations.

40 Kragar  Thu, May 24, 2012 1:26:11pm

re: #38 Lidane

I think it's hilarious that a multi-millionaire who is being supported by billionaires is complaining about unions raising money for elections.

Self-awareness, he haz none.

Think of all the thousands of votes from union members compared to the measly one vote each millionaire gets. Its just not fair I tell ya.
///

41 ramex  Thu, May 24, 2012 1:26:36pm

Choices are easier when there's no worries about what's in the bank. School choice is not a slippery slope to segregated education, it's a free fall into it. There will be one kind of education for the financially impoverished, and another kind for those with the money to make their choices come to life.

42 HAL2010  Thu, May 24, 2012 1:30:11pm

Sorry to go OT, but I made a new page on why Obama isn't a socialist (part 2). My previous page got a lot of views so I thought I'd make a new one.

"My previous page on Obama (found here) clearly showed that President Obama has presided over one of the “greatest periods of government austerity in recent memory”.

To hammer home this point, there are a few more pieces of evidence I would like to share with you...."

Enjoy

43 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, May 24, 2012 1:30:37pm

re: #41 ramex

Choices are easier when there's no worries about what's in the bank. School choice is not a slippery slope to segregated education, it's a free fall into it. There will be one kind of education for the financially impoverished, and another kind for those with the money to make their choices come to life.

People like Mitt Romney have always had school choice. The rich have all the school choice they wish. It's people like me whose choices are the local school or homeschool. (Or online charter school.)

44 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, May 24, 2012 1:32:03pm

re: #36 Be Zorch, Daddio

The future of public schools in suburbs are gonna suck.

It's like, in every school district people move to because of "good schools", they turn around and vote in knuckle-dragging assholes to the school boards.

"I got mine, fuck you"

basically, infecting the school boards with reactionary fairy tales and witchhunts, it happened to my friend's high school (rich republican fuckers witch hunted the gay teachers out of the district)


America!

45 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, May 24, 2012 1:32:51pm

re: #43 Mostly sane, most of the time.

People like Mitt Romney have always had school choice. The rich have all the school choice they wish. It's people like me whose choices are the local school or homeschool. (Or online charter school.)

school choice, tax choice, choice of servants, choice of bullying victims, choice of companies to loot and destroy

choice! It's good to be the pigs

46 Charles Johnson  Thu, May 24, 2012 1:32:52pm

re: #42 HAL2010

Excellent post! I'm going to promote it to the front page, in fact.

47 HAL2010  Thu, May 24, 2012 1:33:56pm

re: #46 Charles Johnson

Good God, I don't really know what to say. Thanks for letting us create pages!

48 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Thu, May 24, 2012 1:33:58pm

After being (ahem) expelled from middle school for a physical altercation (me trying and succeeding in getting away) with a vice Principle who objected to me selling weed in the school parking lot for some reason and who wished to physically detain me with evidence intact until the police could arrive I was sent to "alternative" school.

A former tiny/single building High school that had been closed for about twenty years had been re-opened by Pinellas County for this purpose. The conditions inside were deplorable and so was the single bus that had to drive for more than two hours to pick each of us miscreants up, often miles from our homes. (I had to leave the house no later than 5:40am to walk the almost 3 miles to my pick-up point on time).

However I have to say that with a total school enrollment of about 40ish kids and an class size for each period of about six or seven that I learned more in just one semester there than I probably had in the previous two years of middle school. The teachers there had volunteered to work with us troublemakers and were dedicated, the small class size meant that everyone got individual coaching and problem troubleshooting time from the teacher. I doubt I ever would have wrapped my mind around algebraic math without the one on one patient coaching I received there.

So, anyway, back on topic...

If you have never experienced small class sizes then I'm sure that it is easy to doubt their results. As someone who has had experience with them, and even then in a school strictly for children with "behavioral problems" to see everyone (nearly) happy to come to school and actually learn? I wish it were possible for every school to operate like that, with only a handful of children per teacher, so that each got individual time, attention, and help.

It ain't going to happen, but I can wish for it anyway...

49 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, May 24, 2012 1:34:36pm

re: #45 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]

school choice, tax choice, choice of servants, choice of bullying victims, choice of companies to loot and destroy

choice! It's good to be the pigs

My point is that they have choice now. They don't need any legislation to have the choice to send their kids to another school.

When they talk about school choice, they are talking to people who would like to send their kids to a different school, but don't have the funds for private school. (Usually, it's a private school across town.)

50 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, May 24, 2012 1:37:25pm

re: #49 Mostly sane, most of the time.

My point is that they have choice now. They don't need any legislation to have the choice to send their kids to another school.

When they talk about school choice, they are talking to people who would like to send their kids to a different school, but don't have the funds for private school. (Usually, it's a private school across town.)

Yep! Taxpayers on the hook for it of course

51 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, May 24, 2012 1:38:44pm

re: #50 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]

Yep! Taxpayers on the hook for it of course

As long as the amount taxpayers pay is the same as what is spent on them at the assigned school, I don't care. Although I do consider it their job to get the kid there.

52 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, May 24, 2012 1:39:03pm

re: #48 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You

I had pretty small class sizes in an advanced placement graphic design course I attended in high school, it was amazing\

53 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, May 24, 2012 1:39:12pm

re: #51 Mostly sane, most of the time.

As long as the amount taxpayers pay is the same as what is spent on them at the assigned school, I don't care. Although I do consider it their job to get the kid there.

The parent/guardian's job.

54 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, May 24, 2012 1:40:06pm

re: #51 Mostly sane, most of the time.

As long as the amount taxpayers pay is the same as what is spent on them at the assigned school, I don't care. Although I do consider it their job to get the kid there.

I care because it starves the school system of resources, and the parents who can't afford private school at all, their kids education is being bled dry

55 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, May 24, 2012 1:41:41pm

Specifically, WUB, think Portland high schools. There were schools that you nearly had to force parents to send their kids to at gunpoint. Every possible way to transfer was tried.

Finally they just had to completely re-tool the schools.

56 Achilles Tang  Thu, May 24, 2012 1:46:07pm
“school choice” is a culture warrior code word for religion-based home schooling.

I thought it meant vouchers, for religious schools mostly. In principle, if not in practice, anyone has the choice to do home schooling.

57 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, May 24, 2012 1:47:19pm

re: #56 Flame Fin Tomini Tang

I thought it meant vouchers, for religious schools mostly. In principle, if not in practice, anyone has the choice to do home schooling.

I have to run, but how much you spend on homeschooling is your choice. It's a bit of a time trade-off. It takes time to put together your own curriculum, and it's cheaper to buy one ready to go.

There are also articles out there on how a working parent can homeschool. I know of two-income families that homeschool.

58 Kragar  Thu, May 24, 2012 1:48:43pm

re: #57 Mostly sane, most of the time.

I have to run, but how much you spend on homeschooling is your choice. It's a bit of a time trade-off. It takes time to put together your own curriculum, and it's cheaper to buy one ready to go.

There are also articles out there on how a working parent can homeschool. I know of two-income families that homeschool.

Of course, the home school curriculum market is heavily saturated by the Creationist crowd.

59 Sionainn  Thu, May 24, 2012 1:48:50pm

re: #49 Mostly sane, most of the time.

My point is that they have choice now. They don't need any legislation to have the choice to send their kids to another school.

When they talk about school choice, they are talking to people who would like to send their kids to a different school, but don't have the funds for private school. (Usually, it's a private school across town.)

The "school choice" folks are the ones who already have the money to send their kids to private school. They just want taxpayers to fund their "choice" instead of paying taxes for the local school district as well as the private school tuition.

I've had this discussion before with a "policy" wonk who was always touting school choice in our district. He completely ignored, every time I brought it up, that the vouchers parents would receive wouldn't even come close to being able to pay for any of the private schools in my city.

I'm fortunate that I managed to get my daughter into one of our district's magnet schools. They get more money, have smaller class sizes, a challenging and accelerated curriculum, and an extended school day which allows extras like Mandarin Chinese and technology classes. I'm very pleased with the education my daughter is getting at her school, something I don't think she'd get at one of the regular schools in the district.

60 jaunte  Thu, May 24, 2012 1:59:38pm

The Debate Over Class Size Part 2: The Critics Have Their Say

"Reducing class size seems to be most effective in combination with other reforms," reports U.S. News Online. "Evidence comes from a study of 16 low-income schools in Austin, Texas. In the late 1980s, each of the schools was awarded an extra $300,000 a year for five years as part of a desegregation case. Fourteen of the schools spent the money to reduce class size and yet in five years didn't manage to improve student attendance or test scores. But the other two schools reduced class size, set higher standards, provided intensive teacher training, and established health clinics on their grounds to address physical problems that were keeping students from learning. Test scores and attendance both improved significantly at those schools."

61 Lidane  Thu, May 24, 2012 2:16:14pm

Speaking of bad Republican ideas and education, this happened:

Senate Rejects House GOP Student Loan Bill

62 Mr.Boots  Thu, May 24, 2012 2:18:27pm

re: #5 erik_t

80% of those who remain are successful. Private and charter schools generally have the luxury of culling out those who will not be successful. Discipline problem in the slightest - dump 'em. Manifesting learning disablilities-dump 'em. Looking like they aren't going to pass - dump 'em.

To use a business metaphor, public schools are expected to turn out a quality product regardless of the quality of the "raw material," whereas private and charter schools can do as a manufacturer can do - reject the raw material as not meeting acceptable standards.

Not exactly a level playing field. Throwing more money to private and charter schools only increases the inequality that public schools have to work under.

63 mumbly-joe  Thu, May 24, 2012 4:18:48pm

For context on Romney's remarks, Philadelphia is in the process of undergoing a pretty severe, drastic "restructuring" planthat is threatening to close 64 schools, administer the handful of remaining schools by "achievement networks" (which do not seem terribly distinct from charters), and lay off thousands of support staff. This has a lot of parents and educators up in arms already, and it's against this backdrop that Mitt Romney today emphasized the importance of "school choice" (read: privatization) and dismissed the impact of classroom size.

(The Inquirer and City Paper have some better articles that crystallize the state of specific concerns over the future of public education in Philly, but the Huffpo piece above is a decent overview of the situation)

64 wheat-dogg  Thu, May 24, 2012 10:07:33pm

Mounting the soapbox as a long-time teacher ...

Romney is full of shit. One contrarian study does not balance the overwhelming number of studies that find strong correlations between small class size and student performance. Besides, it's just common sense (I know, not a Republican strong point). Fewer students in a class mean the teacher has more time to spend with each kid, helping the weak ones and enriching the learning of the strong ones. It's one reason why most elementary school classes have about 25 kids on average per teacher. The ratio unfortunately widens by high school, maybe 35+ kids/teacher.

Meanwhile, school choice only really benefits the kids with moneyed parents, or with parents that value education. It's a form of segregation, partly by race/income and partly by ability. This kind of system is not quite what Tom Jefferson had in mind back in the day, and what was codified in the Northwest Ordinance. School choice really only helps the people pushing for it. It's self-serving and does little to benefit the public commonweal.

One other thing. If we want small class sizes, we will also need more teachers, those uppity people who ask questions, sign petitions, join unions and other "non-Real-American" things. So, naturally, the RW doesn't want small class sizes for everyone. Too many teachers and too many kids asking embarrassing questions.


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