Voters are turning out in record numbers for Wisconsin’s recall election; polls close at 9 pm ET, and if the massive numbers work in Tom Barrett’s favor there could be a large upset in the works.
Here’s another thread to keep up on the news as results begin to come in.
Sadly for Tom Barrett, the news organizations are now beginning to call the election for Scott Walker.
1 |
darthstar Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:14:26pm |
I'm sure they're all turning out to support their Governor.
/
| 2 |
darthstar Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:17:19pm |
By the way, California had its first "open primary" today. On our vote by mail ballots, we saw Republicans (like Orly Taitz) next to Democrats (like Dianne Feinstein). One name I didn't see on the ballot? Mitt Romney. I voted for Obama anyway, because that's how I roll, but thought it was interesting the Presidential candidates weren't all on the ballot.
| 3 |
goddamnedfrank Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:18:36pm |
I'm still trying to wrap my head around Mitt Romney having a Hotmail account. This is 2012 sir, get yourself some internet.
| 4 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:19:41pm |
1)Whoever wins will claim a mandate and will think it's all part of some great national trend.
2) Whoever loses will claim the election was stolen, if it's close they'll call for a recount. Return to step 1
3) Whoever loses will not learn from their mistakes or form any sort of real world version of why they lost.
This is why we're stupid.
| 5 |
darthstar Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:20:18pm |
re: #3 goddamnedfrank
I'm still trying to wrap my head around Mitt Romney having a Hotmail account. This is 2012 sir, get yourself some internet.
He's just trying to stand up to the religious bigots in his party by having a hotmail associated with him.
| 6 |
jaunte Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:20:20pm |
| 7 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:21:15pm |
By the way, I have a hilarious #TwitterGulag reprise coming a bit later. A look at the kind of wingnut whose account gets suspended by Twitter, then whines about free speech. Snark will ensue.
| 8 |
darthstar Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:21:49pm |
Bart Simpson would be proud.
| 9 |
freetoken Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:22:00pm |
re: #2 darthstar
I could still go vote, if I wanted to. This ballot had really nothing for me, as far as motivation. Two ballot measures, neither of wish I care about (really, changing term limits from 14 to 12 years - that is supposed to be important?)
Since I re-registered as a Dem I now can vote for the central committee for my state legislature area, but as I know none of the candidates it makes no sense to me.
Perhaps I should go just to vote for Orly?
| 10 |
Origuy Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:22:35pm |
California's Proposition 14 didn't affect presidential primary voting, judges, or local elections. Only Congress, legislature, and state-wide contests.
| 11 |
darthstar Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:23:15pm |
re: #9 freetoken
I could still go vote, if I wanted to. This ballot had really nothing for me, as far as motivation. Two ballot measures, neither of wish I care about (really, changing term limits from 14 to 12 years - that is supposed to be important?)
Since I re-registered as a Dem I now can vote for the central committee for my state legislature area, but as I know none of the candidates it makes no sense to me.
Perhaps I should go just to vote for Orly?
Go vote yes on 29. If the Chamber of Commerce is against it, you know it's a good tax (on cigarettes).
| 12 |
freetoken Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:23:18pm |
re: #10 Origuy
Oh yes, I can also go vote for Obama for nominee... but something tells me he doesn't need my vote.
| 13 |
Targetpractice Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:23:38pm |
re: #4 Killgore Trout
1)Whoever wins will claim a mandate and will think it's all part of some great national trend.
2) Whoever loses will claim the election was stolen, if it's close they'll call for a recount. Return to step 1
3) Whoever loses will not learn from their mistakes or form any sort of real world version of why they lost.
This is why we're stupid.
4) The loser's party will be on all the news channels tomorrow morning, downplaying the significance of the election and/or lobbing accusations at those who they feel "cost" them the election.
| 14 |
Tigger2 Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:24:07pm |
I hope Barrett wins and beats the big money from out of state, I am sick of seeing the rich try to take over our country for their interest at the expense of the middle class and the poor.
| 15 |
freetoken Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:24:17pm |
Maybe I could go write in Orly as an alternative to President Obama on the Dem ticket... hmmm...
| 16 |
Randall Gross Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:24:39pm |
According to a Wapo tweet I saw, Union households are way up in exit polling compared to last round.
| 17 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:25:11pm |
re: #15 freetoken
Maybe I could go write in Orly as an alternative to President Obama on the Dem ticket... hmmm...
Take your nirth certificate.
| 18 |
darthstar Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:25:14pm |
re: #15 freetoken
Maybe I could go write in Orly as an alternative to President Obama on the Dem ticket... hmmm...
No, because Fox would then say "ONE VOTER WROTE IN ORLY! CAN ROMNEY TAKE CALIFORNIA?"
| 19 |
goddamnedfrank Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:26:14pm |
Yes, I'd like to send this letter to the Prussian consulate in Siam by
aeroHotmail. Am I too late for the 4:30 autogyro?
| 20 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:26:46pm |
Evening Lizardim. How go the recall efforts? I'm not surprised to see record turnout; this is a hotly contested issue across the St. Croix. One can only hope that this means that the people who want him gone are actually coming out to say it publicly.
| 21 |
MittDoesNotCompute Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:27:48pm |
re: #8 darthstar
Bart Simpson would be proud.
I loved it when it was Gwyneth Paltrow's character in the the movie-within-a-movie in Goldmember...
| 22 |
darthstar Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:28:15pm |
Dem official:In Dane County (Madison) the 2010 turnout was exceeded today 3 hours before polls closed.Big boost for Barrett.#wirecall— David Shuster (@DavidShuster) June 6, 2012
| 23 |
Targetpractice Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:28:54pm |
re: #20 thedopefishlives
Evening Lizardim. How go the recall efforts? I'm not surprised to see record turnout; this is a hotly contested issue across the St. Croix. One can only hope that this means that the people who want him gone are actually coming out to say it publicly.
That's my hope right now, though I'm still trying to remain realistic. The general opinion I've been hearing the last few days is that Walker leads due to an "enthusiasm gap" between his and Barrett's supporters. Record turnouts leave things rather iffy at the moment.
| 24 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:30:16pm |
re: #23 Targetpractice
That's my hope right now, though I'm still trying to remain realistic. The general opinion I've been hearing the last few days is that Walker leads due to an "enthusiasm gap" between his and Barrett's supporters. Record turnouts leave things rather iffy at the moment.
Needless to say, it is going to be down to the wire either way. I just hope Team America wins this round, and not Team Amerika.
| 25 |
Artist Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:31:10pm |
re: #24 thedopefishlives
Needless to say, it is going to be down to the wire either way. I just hope Team America wins this round, and not Team Amercia.
FTFY
| 26 |
Amory Blaine Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:31:34pm |
re: #6 jaunte
How incredibly sad that in the richest country in the world, we can't have an extra box of ballots for a historic vote.
| 27 |
freetoken Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:32:22pm |
Drudge still claims Walker wins, and is running bratfart.com stories about voter fraud.
The universe is as it is.
| 28 |
darthstar Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:33:07pm |
re: #27 freetoken
Drudge still claims Walker wins, and is running bratfart.com stories about voter fraud.
The universe is as it is.
Claims of voter-fraud before the polls close are a sign of insecurity. They fear they're losing.
| 30 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:33:52pm |
re: #16 Randall Gross
According to a Wapo tweet I saw, Union households are way up in exit polling compared to last round.
makes sense, Walker is taking food off their tables and fucking up their lives and homes and families
| 32 |
Gus Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:34:48pm |
re: #27 freetoken
Drudge still claims Walker wins, and is running bratfart.com stories about voter fraud.
The universe is as it is.
BreitbartPlanet
| 33 |
freetoken Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:34:48pm |
re: #28 darthstar
Well, I'll believe it when I see it. Walker did win in 2010, after all, and as such had expected him to win. If he really is ousted by more than a razor thin margin then that will indeed be an upset.
| 34 |
Targetpractice Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:34:59pm |
re: #28 darthstar
Claims of voter-fraud before the polls close are a sign of insecurity. They fear they're losing.
The accusations of voter fraud started up hours ago. And it was noted earlier that Walker was out doing the news shows yesterday and trying to talk down expectations.
| 35 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:35:43pm |
re: #26 Amory Blaine
How incredibly sad that in the richest country in the world, we can't have an extra box of ballots for a historic vote.
I think it's more poor organizational skills. Which is par for the course in this great land, unfortunately.
| 36 |
Gus Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:35:43pm |
It is begun: flickr.com/photos/gsfc/71… #VenusTransit
— NASA Goddard (@NASAGoddard) June 6, 2012
| 37 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:35:46pm |
| 38 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:36:33pm |
re: #37 William Barnett-Lewis
However, anyone in line at 8:00PM is allowed to vote.
How fast can they print ballots?
| 40 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:36:50pm |
re: #26 Amory Blaine
How incredibly sad that in the richest country in the world, we can't have an extra box of ballots for a historic vote.
that's a feature, not a bug
pigs have the ballots rigged special :D
| 41 |
celticdragon Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:37:43pm |
re: #28 darthstar
Claims of voter-fraud before the polls close are a sign of insecurity. They fear they're losing.
This.
Loesch and Malkin are frothing at the mouth. The freepers are collating anecdotes from wingnuts who claim to have seen the Mes'kins voting in Arizona and Colorado after getting off the apocryphal buses that somebody somewhere rented. One wingnut actually claims to have one of the bus drivers.
Go figure. They are nervous and setting up their claims for tomorrow that illegals and union thugs stole the election and that atty gen Holder is covering it up.
Oh, the claims of union members attacking the helpless Republican voters are already turning up. No pictures or video, though...heh.
| 42 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:38:22pm |
Would have been nice if Obama stumped in WI
oh well!
| 43 |
lawhawk Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:38:24pm |
NJ polling closed at 8pm, so results should be starting to trickle in. Nothing yet on the Pascrell/Rothman race, which is the most interesting one in NJ. Menendez is unopposed for US Senate on the Democrats; Obama is unopposed for Democrats and Mitt looks to have a blowout sewn up. For the GOP, it's the race to face Pascrell/Rothman - where the GOP candidates include Shmuley Boteach.
| 44 |
Achilles Tang Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:38:43pm |
re: #26 Amory Blaine
How incredibly sad that in the richest country in the world, we can't have an extra box of ballots for a historic vote.
That's it? If they run out there is no backup plan??
| 45 |
darthstar Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:39:19pm |
re: #42 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]
Would have been nice if Obama stumped in WI
oh well!
He can do a victory lap if Barrett wins. Less harm to his campaign if Barrett loses as GOP can't say vote was a referendum on Obama.
| 46 |
makeitstop Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:39:31pm |
re: #3 goddamnedfrank
I'm still trying to wrap my head around Mitt Romney having a Hotmail account. This is 2012 sir, get yourself some internet.
I've gotten two clients this year who are still on stupid AOL. It's taking a lot of effort to get them to let go. Old habits die hard.
| 47 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:39:33pm |
| 48 |
Mich-again Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:39:33pm |
Well if turnouts are high, I wonder just how high they can go in Waukesha County, the GOP area that had a 97.3% turnout last time. It might go up to well past 100% this time.
| 49 |
brandoncraig Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:39:47pm |
I hope Walker wins. Unless he's been accused of a crime or some sort of official wrongdoing than I'm against recalls of this type on principle.
Those that don't like Gov. Walker's policy can vote him out at the next election.
| 50 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:41:32pm |
look's like Venus is trekking along . . .
| 51 |
blueraven Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:41:37pm |
re: #49 brandoncraig
I hope Walker wins. Unless he's been accused of a crime or some sort of official wrongdoing than I'm against recalls of this type on principle.
Those that don't like Gov. Walker's policy can vote him out at the next election.
Did you vote?
| 52 |
Targetpractice Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:41:52pm |
re: #49 brandoncraig
I hope Walker wins. Unless he's been accused of a crime or some sort of official wrongdoing than I'm against recalls of this type on principle.
Those that don't like Gov. Walker's policy can vote him out at the next election.
So the voters can only allow their voice to be heard every so many years? Otherwise, they need to keep them shut, grin, and bear it until then?
| 53 |
Eventual Carrion Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:42:05pm |
re: #38 Decatur Deb
How fast can they print ballots?
They should have extras at the county courthouse (at least that is how it is here in PA). They just hotshot some over with the sheriff or official courier. We used the sheriff's to deliver things to precincts, like absentee ballots and if more provisional ballots were needed. Also sheriff's took the memory cassettes from our local drop point back to the courthouse for counting.
| 54 |
Mich-again Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:42:18pm |
re: #49 brandoncraig
I hope Walker wins. Unless he's been accused of a crime or some sort of official wrongdoing than I'm against recalls of this type on principle.
Those that don't like Gov. Walker's policy can vote him out at the next election.
Well Walker should have had ALEC write him up some legislation making recalls illegal instead of cramming through all the anti-union bills..
| 55 |
darthstar Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:42:27pm |
re: #49 brandoncraig
I hope Walker wins. Unless he's been accused of a crime or some sort of official wrongdoing than I'm against recalls of this type on principle.
Those that don't like Gov. Walker's policy can vote him out at the next election.
He's being investigated for crime right now. Recall process is to prevent him from damaging the state and workers further.
| 56 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:43:03pm |
re: #41 celticdragon
This.
Loesch and Malkin are frothing at the mouth. The freepers are collating anecdotes from wingnuts who claim to have seen the Mes'kins voting in Arizona and Colorado after getting off the apocryphal buses that somebody somewhere rented. One wingnut actually claims to have one of the bus drivers.
Go figure. They are nervous and setting up their claims for tomorrow that illegals and union thugs stole the election and that atty gen Holder is covering it up.
Oh, the claims of union members attacking the helpless Republican voters are already turning up. No pictures or video, though...heh.
Loesch and Malkin froth on demand, that's their job :)
They have a handy rabies syringe, inject up quick before booting up the PC so that they can spray their blogs with piss and vomit at a moment's notice. Vicks Vaporub supplied by Glenn Beck for the tears of Jesus and Freedom
it's all done with mirrors, folks, Miss Loesch will be back in her trailer doing tricks for the townsfolk
| 57 |
jaunte Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:43:18pm |
Who Can be Recalled?
Any elected officeholder who has served one year of the term for which he or she was most recently elected, as of the date the recall petition is offered for filing, can be recalled. §9.10(2)(s), Wis. Stats.
After one recall petition and recall election, no further recall petition may be filed against the same official during the term for which he or she was elected. §9.1 0(6), Wis. Stats.
If the regular term of an elected officeholder's position is scheduled for re-election at the fall election to be held within six weeks of the date the recall petition is filed, a recall election may not be held.
[Link: gab.wi.gov...]
| 58 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:44:06pm |
re: #49 brandoncraig
I hope Walker wins. Unless he's been accused of a crime or some sort of official wrongdoing than I'm against recalls of this type on principle.
Those that don't like Gov. Walker's policy can vote him out at the next election.
Principles are great for jerking off into, don't you agree? squirt squirt
| 59 |
Tigger2 Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:44:59pm |
re: #49 brandoncraig
I hope Walker wins. Unless he's been accused of a crime or some sort of official wrongdoing than I'm against recalls of this type on principle.
Those that don't like Gov. Walker's policy can vote him out at the next election.
They can vote him out tonight and I hope they do.
| 60 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:45:08pm |
re: #38 Decatur Deb
How fast can they print ballots?
Depends. Here in Madison, they were able to print more very quickly for the wards that needed them.
| 61 |
celticdragon Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:45:11pm |
re: #49 brandoncraig
I hope Walker wins. Unless he's been accused of a crime or some sort of official wrongdoing than I'm against recalls of this type on principle.
Those that don't like Gov. Walker's policy can vote him out at the next election.
Why the hell should people are being harmed by his policies (that were NOT announced before he took office) not avail themselves of a perfectly legal tool available to them??
Walker is using his office to take partisan revenge on democrats and union workers by destroying public employee unions, shutting down government offices in democratic leaning areas and firing union workers and using unpaid prison labor to do the jobs that used to help feed families...and that was just in the first month.
Screw that. Recall.
| 62 |
Gus Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:45:47pm |
re: #57 jaunte
Who Can be Recalled?
[Link: gab.wi.gov...]
Activist judges and libruls I tells ya!
//
| 63 |
jaunte Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:45:52pm |
Under Wisconsin law, this is the "next" election.
| 64 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:46:27pm |
re: #49 brandoncraig
I hope Walker wins. Unless he's been accused of a crime or some sort of official wrongdoing than I'm against recalls of this type on principle.
Those that don't like Gov. Walker's policy can vote him out at the next election.
Our law allows this and over a million citizens signed the petitions.
And Governor Doe will probably go to prison soon enough, no matter what happens tonight.
| 65 |
Interesting Times Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:46:42pm |
Fun Fact: If lots of citizens voting makes you angry, you're not a patriot.— LOLGOP (@LOLGOP) June 6, 2012
| 66 |
Gus Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:46:55pm |
re: #54 Mich-again
Well Walker should have had ALEC write him up some legislation making recalls illegal instead of cramming through all the anti-union bills..
Good idea! -- Wingnut
//
| 67 |
freetoken Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:46:58pm |
| 68 |
Mich-again Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:47:39pm |
As fast as Walker and his Tea Baggers jammed through the anti-Union laws, I'm surprised they didn't eliminate recall elections for the duration of Walker's term.
| 69 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:47:55pm |
re: #64 William Barnett-Lewis
Our law allows this and over a million citizens signed the petitions.
And Governor Doe will probably go to prison soon enough, no matter what happens tonight.
I will admit, I find a perverse sense of satisfaction in seeing a corrupt politician doing the perp walk. Governor Blago was the best for that, honestly.
| 70 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:49:09pm |
re: #69 thedopefishlives
I will admit, I find a perverse sense of satisfaction in seeing a corrupt politician doing the perp walk. Governor Blago was the best for that, honestly.
Then you'll love this ABC bit:
Before we get to Wisconsin, a great story out of Pennsylvania – former Pennsylvania House Speakers Share Jail Cell – They used to share a gavel. Now, apparently, they’re sharing a jail cell. John Perzel, a Republican from Philadelphia and Bill Deweese, a Democrat from Greene, share the distinction of both having served as Speaker of the Pennsylvania State House. – [Link: abcn.ws...] (Meghan Kiesel)
| 71 |
Mich-again Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:50:00pm |
re: #69 thedopefishlives
I will admit, I find a perverse sense of satisfaction in seeing a corrupt politician doing the perp walk. Governor Blago was the best for that, honestly.
I have to say watching Kwame Kilpatrick do the perp walk was pretty good too. A city in decay and all he did was shake down contractors for cash for himself..
| 72 |
Tigger2 Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:50:15pm |
re: #27 freetoken
Drudge still claims Walker wins, and is running bratfart.com stories about voter fraud.
The universe is as it is.
There's voter fraud going on the Republicans are committing it. LOL
| 73 |
Mich-again Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:51:01pm |
re: #72 Tigger2
There's voter fraud going on the Republicans are committing it. LOL
Waukesha County is up to 104% turnout. /
| 74 |
Cheechako Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:51:03pm |
re: #26 Amory Blaine
How incredibly sad that in the richest country in the world, we can't have an extra box of ballots for a historic vote.
But there are extra boxes of ballots. There already filled in and in storage in someone's car trunk out in the parking lot.
/
| 75 |
Achilles Tang Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:51:05pm |
re: #49 brandoncraig
I hope Walker wins. Unless he's been accused of a crime or some sort of official wrongdoing than I'm against recalls of this type on principle.
Those that don't like Gov. Walker's policy can vote him out at the next election.
I don't live there, but as I understand it he did not run on and get elected on what he has done. That constitutes wrongdoing if not a crime.
| 76 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:52:07pm |
re: #68 Mich-again
As fast as Walker and his Tea Baggers jammed through the anti-Union laws, I'm surprised they didn't eliminate recall elections for the duration of Walker's term.
I learned from my reading/listening to the Rise and Fall of the Third Reich by William Shirer, among other things, that the Nazi's also shut down Unions. Corporate types had no problem building the "ovens" and other accouterments for the various activities of the military.
Reminded me of the Private Prisons System of today, actually.
All this new information for my mind to sort and decide if it is relevant for today's situation.
| 77 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:53:16pm |
re: #49 brandoncraig
I hope Walker wins. Unless he's been accused of a crime or some sort of official wrongdoing than I'm against recalls of this type on principle.
Those that don't like Gov. Walker's policy can vote him out at the next election.
Hey, I lived through Gray Davis. It's democracy. If it's written & allowed, well then. That's actually a lame excuse. It's law, but we shouldn't do it on principle. Bah that.
| 78 |
Mich-again Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:54:04pm |
Recall elections are reminders that once you are elected, you represent the entire electorate, not just your side of the aisle.
When a politician uses their position to simply dole out retribution to their political opponents, this is what happens.
| 79 |
Targetpractice Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:54:18pm |
re: #77 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012
Hey, I lived through Gray Davis. It's democracy. If it's written & allowed, well then. That's actually a lame excuse. It's law, but we shouldn't do it on principle. Bah that.
It's law for now, but Walker and his buddies in the legislature, assuming they've still got jobs tomorrow, have made it clear that they intend to change that.
| 80 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:54:25pm |
Hopefully unions now realize what the stakes are
| 81 |
Eventual Carrion Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:54:43pm |
re: #74 Cheechako
But there are extra boxes of ballots. There already filled in and in storage in someone's car trunk out in the parking lot.
/
They don't even need to take up that much room. Didn't some election official "find" a spreadsheet last election that gave Walker a few more votes? I am not going to look it up (I'm lazy).
| 82 |
freetoken Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:54:52pm |
re: #76 ggt
The last thing authoritarians can stand is the people having their own voices.
That's why eventually, even if a dictator originally comes to power via elections, democracy is functionally eradicated in such nations.
I will note here how strongly the wingnuts keep repeating the mantra that the US is NOT A DEMOCRACY!! - they really don't want a democracy and even state it as so. Perhaps we should believe them?
| 83 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:54:55pm |
all over the US: their goal is extermination, guys! National right to work, outlaw of collective bargaining, it can easily happen
| 84 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:55:40pm |
re: #82 freetoken
The last thing authoritarians can stand is the people having their own voices.
That's why eventually, even if a dictator originally comes to power via elections, democracy is functionally eradicated in such nations.
I will note here how strongly the wingnuts keep repeating the mantra that the US is NOT A DEMOCRACY!! - they really don't want a democracy and even state it as so. Perhaps we should believe them?
I've always believed them
they miss slavery in the US, they want it back
| 85 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:55:45pm |
re: #79 Targetpractice
It's law for now, but Walker and his buddies in the legislature, assuming they've still got jobs tomorrow, have made it clear that they intend to change that.
Being a politician sure looks like a cushy job. You can vote yourself pay increases and also vote yourself complete job security. As long as you don't piss off more than half of the people you represent, you're set for life.
| 86 |
Mich-again Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:55:54pm |
re: #81 Emperor of the Universe
They don't even need to take up that much room. Didn't some election official "find" a spreadsheet last election that gave Walker a few more votes? I am not going to look it up (I'm lazy).
Yeah it was in Waukesha County, strong GOP area that had an amazing 97.3% turnout for the 300,000+ voters.
| 87 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:56:25pm |
re: #82 freetoken
The last thing authoritarians can stand is the people having their own voices.
That's why eventually, even if a dictator originally comes to power via elections, democracy is functionally eradicated in such nations.
I will note here how strongly the wingnuts keep repeating the mantra that the US is NOT A DEMOCRACY!! - they really don't want a democracy and even state it as so. Perhaps we should believe them?
We are a Republic with universal (well, over 18, not a felon) suffrage. I think that makes us a Democracy --no?
| 88 |
celticdragon Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:56:35pm |
re: #76 ggt
I learned from my reading/listening to the Rise and Fall of the Third Reich by William Shirer, among other things, that the Nazi's also shut down Unions. Corporate types had no problem building the "ovens" and other accouterments for the various activities of the military.
Reminded me of the Private Prisons System of today, actually.
All this new information for my mind to sort and decide if it is relevant for today's situation.
I read at Balloon Juice that a more appropriate analogy might be Spain under Franco and the Falangists. Authoritarian, plutocratic, religiously conservative and militaristic.
| 89 |
Varek Raith Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:56:42pm |
Crying voter fraud with no evidence = You know you're going to lose
— LOLGOP (@LOLGOP) June 6, 2012
| 90 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:57:08pm |
re: #79 Targetpractice
It's law for now, but Walker and his buddies in the legislature, assuming they've still got jobs tomorrow, have made it clear that they intend to change that.
Wishful thinking. A state constitutional amendment in Wisconsin has to pass in two sessions of the legislature and then pass a referendum. Recalls won't go away.
| 91 |
Tigger2 Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:57:11pm |
re: #83 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]
all over the US: their goal is extermination, guys! National right to work, outlaw of collective bargaining, it can easily happen
If they get the job done then welcome to the United States of the Third World Countries.
| 92 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:57:44pm |
re: #91 Tigger2
If they get the job done them welcome to the United States of the Third World Countries.
Depending on where you go in America (New Orleans for one) we're already there
| 93 |
thecommodore Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:57:47pm |
re: #10 Origuy
California's Proposition 14 didn't affect presidential primary voting, judges, or local elections. Only Congress, legislature, and state-wide contests.
I believe that's correct. I'm registered in Cali as an independent, and I could get a Democratic or Independent ballot for the Presidential race only (not a GOP one for some reason), but all the statewide races and propositions are on all ballots.
| 94 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:58:11pm |
re: #91 Tigger2
If they get the job done them welcome to the United States of the Third World Countries.
we do get our cyberpunk dark future, though!
| 95 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:58:14pm |
re: #84 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]
I've always believed them
they miss slavery in the US, they want it back
I think they'd rather have serfs than slaves.
| 96 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:58:22pm |
re: #84 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]
I've always believed them
they miss slavery in the US, they want it back
With how easily they ignore the human rights violations on our own soil --the Detention Centers for the undocumented *ahem* people.
Yes, I do believe they wouldn't bat an eye if non-whites were again made slaves.
| 97 |
Mich-again Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:58:42pm |
Right to Work rests on the same logic that anti-Vax crowd uses.
Why should I pay union dues when everyone else at work does and I get the same wages as them even without paying dues.
Why should my kids get vaccinated, all the other kids are so the diseases won't spread anyway.
Same idiotic principle.
| 98 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:58:53pm |
re: #95 William Barnett-Lewis
I think they'd rather have serfs than slaves.
true, you have to house them
| 99 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:59:15pm |
re: #88 celticdragon
I read at Balloon Juice that a more appropriate analogy might be Spain under Franco and the Falangists. Authoritarian, plutocratic, religiously conservative and militaristic.
sigh, still more to learn . . . .
| 100 |
celticdragon Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:59:23pm |
re: #94 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]
we do get our cyberpunk dark future, though!
Blade Runner, but without the cool spinner cars.
| 101 |
jaunte Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:59:33pm |
re: #86 Mich-again
Yeah it was in Waukesha County, strong GOP area that had an amazing 97.3% turnout for the 300,000+ voters.
Compare with turnout for mandatory voting in Australia:
"voter turnout for the top 20% of the population is 96% and for the bottom 20% it is 94%"
[Link: www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org...]
| 102 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jun 5, 2012 5:59:54pm |
re: #100 celticdragon
Blade Runner, but without the cool spinner cars.
I was thinking darker :-) More Max Headroom, Children of Men, Soylent Green
| 103 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:00:15pm |
| 104 |
Targetpractice Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:00:29pm |
| 105 |
Tigger2 Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:00:58pm |
re: #92 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]
Depending on where you go in America (New Orleans for one) we're already there
I have some family there, they would agree with you. LOL
| 106 |
Amory Blaine Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:01:47pm |
re: #49 brandoncraig
I hope Walker wins. Unless he's been accused of a crime or some sort of official wrongdoing than I'm against recalls of this type on principle.
Those that don't like Gov. Walker's policy can vote him out at the next election.
Scott Walker came to power as Milwaukee county executive as the result of a recall against Tom Ament. Tom Ament was never convicted of any crime.
I'll bet you already knew that though.
| 107 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:02:06pm |
All I can tell you is that I have all the appliances running right now and I am really, really damn glad I don't have to go the river to beat our clothes with a rock to get them clean.
Sometimes, I think we are so close to having to live like that again. Without electricity . . . .
| 108 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:02:20pm |
re: #88 celticdragon
I read at Balloon Juice that a more appropriate analogy might be Spain under Franco and the Falangists. Authoritarian, plutocratic, religiously conservative and militaristic.
Santorum campaigned on a platform that was Falangism in all but name. It's the direction they're trending.
| 109 |
blueraven Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:02:22pm |
Polls are closed in WI. It could be a long night.
| 111 |
Kragar Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:02:49pm |
Just voted, luckily they had a write in portion on the ballot
| 112 |
jamesfirecat Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:03:12pm |
re: #94 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]
we do get our cyberpunk dark future, though!
Whatever you say chummer, just don't believe the Ares spin on their predator pistol, it really is a rather mediocre weapon, I have lots of good things to say about their HVAR series battle rifle though!
| 113 |
Targetpractice Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:03:45pm |
re: #111 Kragar
Just voted, luckily they had a write in portion on the ballot
How many times I gotta tell you that Khorne's not eligible?
//
| 114 |
Varek Raith Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:03:51pm |
re: #111 Kragar
Just voted, luckily they had a write in portion on the ballot
You voted for me, right???
| 116 |
Amory Blaine Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:04:07pm |
| 117 |
celticdragon Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:04:15pm |
re: #104 Targetpractice
"He say you brade runna."
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in the rain.
| 118 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:04:26pm |
re: #92 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]
Depending on where you go in America (New Orleans for one) we're already there
I often get people accusing me of hyperbola when I make comparisons to "third world hell holes like Mississippi". Yeah? Are you sure that's hyperbola?
| 119 |
Kragar Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:04:32pm |
re: #93 thecommodore
I believe that's correct. I'm registered in Cali as an independent, and I could get a Democratic or Independent ballot for the Presidential race only (not a GOP one for some reason), but all the statewide races and propositions are on all ballots.
CA Republican Party has a closed primary, you have to be a registered Republican to vote.
| 120 |
b_sharp Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:04:33pm |
re: #58 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]
Principles are great for jerking off into, don't you agree? squirt squirt
Sometimes yer just fuckin' evil, bro.
| 121 |
Targetpractice Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:04:34pm |
| 122 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:04:59pm |
| 123 |
celticdragon Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:05:04pm |
re: #113 Targetpractice
How many times I gotta tell you that Khorne's not eligible?
//
Me...I voted for Slaneesh. Leather and whips and chains...oh my!
| 125 |
Kragar Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:05:58pm |
I'm still registered Republican for voting, so I can vote on the GOP closed ballot.
My presidential pick for the GOP candidate was Barack Obama.
They can suck my left nut if they think I was voting for the assholes they had as choices.
| 127 |
darthstar Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:06:04pm |
Okay...bourbon run complete. Ready for results! Let the pundit pontificating and spinning begin!
| 129 |
Daniel Ballard Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:06:34pm |
How sure are we that a big turnout favors the recall today, and then Democrats in the general election? I'm a little skeptical about this theory. I suspect other dynamics like emotional content change this up.
| 130 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:07:03pm |
| 131 |
darthstar Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:07:11pm |
re: #128 blueraven
CNN reporting exit polls at 50/50
CNN has Wolf Fucking Blitzer. Fuck that channel.
| 132 |
Kragar Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:07:53pm |
re: #131 darthstar
CNN has Wolf Fucking Blitzer. Fuck that channel.
THEY'VE GOT A WOLF FUCKING BLITZER?!?!
Can they even show that?
| 133 |
MittDoesNotCompute Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:08:01pm |
re: #49 brandoncraig
WI voters have the right to recall their elected officials after 1 year in office and they're making their displeasure known.
Why do you hate democracy?
/sorta
| 134 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:08:28pm |
re: #129 Daniel Ballard
How sure are we that a big turnout favors the recall today, and then Democrats in the general election? I'm a little skeptical about this theory. I suspect other dynamics like emotional content change this up.
I'm waiting for the chubby soprano at around 4:00AM before guessing.
| 135 |
jaunte Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:08:36pm |
re: #131 darthstar
They could get worse. Piers Morgan is waiting in the wings.
| 136 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:08:36pm |
re: #132 Kragar
THEY'VE GOT A WOLF FUCKING BLITZER?!?!
Can they even show that?
All fur and pixilation.
| 138 |
Tigger2 Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:09:26pm |
re: #128 blueraven
CNN reporting exit polls at 50/50
I give CNN about the same level of respect as Fox on truth, and that is not very much.
| 139 |
MittDoesNotCompute Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:10:02pm |
re: #58 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]
Principles are great for jerking off into, don't you agree? squirt squirt
I thought Kleenex was good for that...
///
| 140 |
Targetpractice Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:10:16pm |
I'm following TPM's live map, so this should be interesting.
| 141 |
goddamnedfrank Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:11:06pm |
I voted for the Shover Robot. He pushes bread down your throat.
| 142 |
freetoken Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:11:29pm |
re: #137 Amory Blaine
Here's the direct link to the HuffPo map"
[Link: elections.huffingtonpost.com...]
| 144 |
Eventual Carrion Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:11:36pm |
re: #131 darthstar
CNN has Wolf Fucking Blitzer. Fuck that channel.
Something in my mind made a connection that when I hear Wolf Blitzer I think of Phylis Diller's "husband" Fang.
| 145 |
Daniel Ballard Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:11:45pm |
What would we wish for in an election that had high turnout favoring the GOP?
[Link: articles.latimes.com...]
[Link: www.politicsdaily.com...]
| 146 |
Amory Blaine Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:12:05pm |
re: #142 freetoken
Here's the direct link to the HuffPo map"
[Link: elections.huffingtonpost.com...]
Thanks! I fixed my link!
| 147 |
darthstar Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:12:13pm |
Love the big disclaimer on the home page for the Wisconsin Sec of State:
UNFORTUNATELY(Bold and Red)
Because of the Governor’s budget passed by the Legislature the Office of the Secretary of State’s functions have been significantly changed.
This Office no longer handles notaries public or trademarks and trade names functions. Therefore, for this type of information, please do not contact this office. Thank you!
These functions are now performed by the Department of Financial Institutions which is a separate agency and not a part of the Office of the Secretary of State.
| 148 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:12:25pm |
re: #144 Emperor of the Universe
Something in my mind made a connection that when I hear Wolf Blitzer I think of Phylis Diller's "husband" Fang.
Still stuck on Onion's little girl raised by Wolf.
| 149 |
bratwurst Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:12:37pm |
re: #135 jaunte
They could get worse. Piers Morgan is waiting in the wings.
No, that's the beauty of it...that fatuous bloated moron is blessedly away for the Queen's jubilee in London. No danger of hearing any of his empty headed commentary on the election tonight.
| 150 |
freetoken Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:12:42pm |
I propose I have plenty of time to go on my evening constitutional, visit the grocery store, and watch the first episode of MasterChef US, before we get to any sort of conclusion on the WI race.
| 153 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:13:36pm |
re: #129 Daniel Ballard
How sure are we that a big turnout favors the recall today, and then Democrats in the general election? I'm a little skeptical about this theory. I suspect other dynamics like emotional content change this up.
I think historically higher voter turnout generally favors Dems but I suppose it depends mostly on who is turning out. If the GOP motivated voters enough the high turnout could favor Walker.
| 155 |
Gus Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:14:00pm |
CNN exit poll: Walker 50, Barrett 50 tpm.ly/KNxQlA— Talking Points Memo (@TPM) June 6, 2012
| 157 |
Gus Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:14:25pm |
RNC Chair Reince Preibus asked why recall voters supported Obama over Romney 54% to 42%. He didn't really have an answer.— Andrew Kaczynski (@BuzzFeedAndrew) June 6, 2012
| 158 |
Varek Raith Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:14:26pm |
Exit poll presidential preference
Obama 54
Romney 42
| 159 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:14:38pm |
Canada Bracing for Massive Influx of Wisconsin Boat People
Coast Guard on Alert
“Word has gotten around that we have policemen, firemen, and basic school lunches up here,” Mr. McGlindon said. “You can’t blame these boat people for seeking a better life. But we are under orders to intercept them.”
In Canada, officials fear that refugees from Wisconsin will brave the treacherous journey across Lake Superior in the hopes of giving birth to so-called “anchor babies” on Canadian soil.
Mr. McGlindon offered reporters a look at satellite photos showing the boat people larding their vessels with wheels of premium cheddar cheese, possibly in the hopes of bribing Canadian officials on Superior’s northern shore.
“We are telling all of our men that under no circumstances should they accept offerings of cheese,” he said. ”These boat people are desperate and they will try anything.”
Reports of the looming refugee crisis coincided with the release of a new poll showing that Gov. Scott Walker is now the most hated man in Wisconsin, narrowly edging Brett Favre.
Speaking at the state capitol, Gov. Walker seemed philosophical about his legacy: “I’m not worried how history will remember me, because if I have my way there won’t be any history teachers.”
[Link: www.borowitzreport.com...]
| 161 |
darthstar Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:15:11pm |
First results - Walker 57%, Barrett 42% - 1% reporting (about 3000 votes).
| 162 |
Gus Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:15:22pm |
Bill Clinton issues statement clarifying CNBC interview cited by GOP: tpm.ly/KNxXNP— Talking Points Memo (@TPM) June 6, 2012
| 163 |
Targetpractice Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:16:43pm |
re: #161 darthstar
First results - Walker 57%, Barrett 42% - 1% reporting (about 3000 votes).
Well, that's it, it's all over.
Time to go drown my sorrows.
///
| 164 |
jaunte Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:16:47pm |
Despite raising $30 million, Scott Walker's election night event is cash bar. That might actually justify a recall. #wirecall
— Christian Schneider (@Schneider_CM) June 6, 2012
| 165 |
darthstar Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:17:31pm |
re: #162 Gus
Clinton and Obama appeared together and Clinton ripped Romney and Republicans in general a new asshole. GOP won't be able to claim him as a supporter anymore.
| 166 |
Targetpractice Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:18:36pm |
re: #165 darthstar
Clinton and Obama appeared together and Clinton ripped Romney and Republicans in general a new asshole. GOP won't be able to claim him as a supporter anymore.
Won't claim him as a supporter, but repeat every "misgiving" and "criticism" he has of Obama from now until the election.
| 168 |
Daniel Ballard Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:19:15pm |
re: #161 darthstar
I hope Walker is recalled. That's the real feeling I have. But the part of me that is so repelled by the hyperbole and partisan rhetoric is hoping for an exact tie. Right to the single vote tie. Just to show the futility and harm runaway partisanship has wrought.
| 169 |
Romantic Heretic Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:19:59pm |
re: #76 ggt
I learned from my reading/listening to the Rise and Fall of the Third Reich by William Shirer, among other things, that the Nazi's also shut down Unions. Corporate types had no problem building the "ovens" and other accouterments for the various activities of the military.
Reminded me of the Private Prisons System of today, actually.
All this new information for my mind to sort and decide if it is relevant for today's situation.
As my favourite writer puts it, "Capitalism was content under Hitler, happy under Mussolini, very happy under Franco and delirious under General Pinochet."
He points out that capitalism does best under advanced authoritarian governments that are not opposed to capitalism. The streets are calm, dissent is repressed and, as long as you don't challenge the system, anybody can make money and pass it on to their children.
History shows that capitalism and democracy can have a good working relationship but capitalism much prefers authoritarian governments, as its current happiness with China demonstrates.
| 171 |
goddamnedfrank Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:21:10pm |
re: #123 celticdragon
Me...I voted for Slaneesh. Leather and whips and chains...oh my!
Mork's economic policy of hitting you hard when you aren't looking at him might be just what this country needs, but Gork's policy of hitting you hard when you are looking at him makes sense too. I'm torn.
| 172 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:22:47pm |
re: #76 ggt
I learned from my reading/listening to the Rise and Fall of the Third Reich by William Shirer, among other things, that the Nazi's also shut down Unions. Corporate types had no problem building the "ovens" and other accouterments for the various activities of the military.
Reminded me of the Private Prisons System of today, actually.
All this new information for my mind to sort and decide if it is relevant for today's situation.
Ah, finally fount it:
"We must close union offices, confiscate their money, and put their
leaders in prison. We must reduce workers' salaries and take away their
right to strike."
- Adolf Hilter, 2 May 1933
| 173 |
darthstar Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:22:49pm |
re: #168 Daniel Ballard
I hope Walker is recalled. That's the real feeling I have. But the part of me that is so repelled by the hyperbole and partisan rhetoric is hoping for an exact tie. Right to the single vote tie. Just to show the futility and harm runaway partisanship has wrought.
I hope he's arraigned after he's recalled.
| 174 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:23:08pm |
re: #169 Romantic Heretic
As my favourite writer puts it, "Capitalism was content under Hitler, happy under Mussolini, very happy under Franco and delirious under General Pinochet."
He points out that capitalism does best under advanced authoritarian governments that are not opposed to capitalism. The streets are calm, dissent is repressed and, as long as you don't challenge the system, anybody can make money and pass it on to their children.
History shows that capitalism and democracy can have a good working relationship but capitalism much prefers authoritarian governments, as its current happiness with China demonstrates.
And, who is your favorite writer?
| 175 |
Only The Lurker Knows Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:23:15pm |
Night Lizards Too much anger and too much beer. They should have thought ahead and planned accordingly. Hell just two 50 KW Diesel generators down there would have prevented this problem.
Reservoir Drinking Water Still Considered Critically Low For Twin Falls
Fucking Idiots. Both at the City level (no power back up) and the individual level (my yard comes first). How we have managed to survive as a species, I can only shake my head.
| 176 |
darthstar Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:23:40pm |
re: #172 William Barnett-Lewis
Ah, finally fount it:
"We must close union offices, confiscate their money, and put their
leaders in prison. We must reduce workers' salaries and take away their
right to strike."- Adolf Hilter, 2 May 1933
Good Godwin, man! Give us a heads up before doing that.
| 177 |
Kragar Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:23:49pm |
re: #171 goddamnedfrank
Mork's economic policy of hitting you hard when you aren't looking at him might be just what this country needs, but Gork's policy of hitting you hard when you are looking at him makes sense too. I'm torn.
Marry me.
| 179 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:24:06pm |
re: #172 William Barnett-Lewis
Ah, finally fount it:
"We must close union offices, confiscate their money, and put their
leaders in prison. We must reduce workers' salaries and take away their
right to strike."- Adolf Hilter, 2 May 1933
Yup
| 180 |
bratwurst Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:24:07pm |
MSNBC guy: "People are tired of voting." Yes, and the evidence for that claim is historic voter turnout.— Dana Houle (@DanaHoule) June 6, 2012
| 181 |
Varek Raith Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:24:13pm |
| 182 |
goddamnedfrank Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:24:30pm |
re: #167 darthstar
Walker leading early! Diebold > voter fraud.
Walker is expected to lead early. His support is largest in small rural districts that can count and post quickly. Barrett's numbers will surge much later tonight as the large city precincts get done counting and begin to certify. I've seen this pattern play out dozens of times.
| 183 |
Kragar Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:25:02pm |
| 184 |
SpaceJesus Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:25:11pm |
guy on radio makes up bogus claims, gets front page at fox
[Link: nation.foxnews.com...]
| 185 |
Targetpractice Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:26:21pm |
Now down to 54.2% to 45.3%. It's gonna see-saw back and forth for awhile now. The nail-biting don't begin til later tonight.
| 186 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:26:35pm |
re: #151 Gus
Exit polling has it at 50/50.
The game is afoot. Almost makes me wish I'd snuck across the border./
| 187 |
celticdragon Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:26:48pm |
re: #171 goddamnedfrank
Mork's economic policy of hitting you hard when you aren't looking at him might be just what this country needs, but Gork's policy of hitting you hard when you are looking at him makes sense too. I'm torn.
The Inquisitor in the cubicle next to mine is giving me a real hard look. I'm going to ritually thump the cogitator twice and pour blessed unguents on top before saying three Ave Imperator's and then pretend our blasphemous conversation never happened...
| 188 |
darthstar Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:27:36pm |
I also hope their Lt. Gov Lutefisk also loses tonight....make it a twofer.
| 189 |
Kragar Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:27:38pm |
re: #184 SpaceJesus
guy on radio makes up bogus claims, gets front page at fox
[Link: nation.foxnews.com...]
That whole conversation is full of paranoia and crazy.
| 190 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:27:59pm |
Just checked and Venus seems to be unphased by the early returns in Wisconsin.
| 191 |
freetoken Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:28:47pm |
re: #185 Targetpractice
Walker wins? Sounds like it might be what everyone seems to fear.
What if Walker wins, and wins strongly? Maybe wingnuts aren't a minority after all? Maybe the Moral Majority really is the majority?
What if?
| 193 |
celticdragon Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:30:16pm |
Gonna go paint some Middenheim artillery men.
| 194 |
b_sharp Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:30:22pm |
re: #191 freetoken
Walker wins? Sounds like it might be what everyone seems to fear.
What if Walker wins, and wins strongly? Maybe wingnuts aren't a minority after all? Maybe the Moral Majority really is the majority?
What if?
Canada is still just north of you, and mostly empty.
| 195 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:30:35pm |
re: #191 freetoken
Walker wins? Sounds like it might be what everyone seems to fear.
What if Walker wins, and wins strongly? Maybe wingnuts aren't a minority after all? Maybe the Moral Majority really is the majority?
What if?
I'm staying in the Chicago area. I got Eggplant Empanadas at the local fresh market deli. Can't get that in wingnut country.
| 196 |
Kragar Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:30:52pm |
re: #193 celticdragon
Gonna go paint some Middenheim artillery men.
Die die, manthing!
I mean, good luck with that.
| 197 |
freetoken Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:31:04pm |
What if everything is predetermined, and we have no free will?
This recent XKCD comes to mind.
| 198 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:31:35pm |
re: #191 freetoken
Walker wins? Sounds like it might be what everyone seems to fear.
What if Walker wins, and wins strongly? Maybe wingnuts aren't a minority after all? Maybe the Moral Majority really is the majority?
What if?
Then we go back to the Hoover administration and start again.
| 199 |
Eventual Carrion Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:31:37pm |
re: #186 thedopefishlives
The game is afoot. Almost makes me wish I'd snuck across the border./
Missed the bus?
| 200 |
freetoken Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:32:04pm |
re: #198 Decatur Deb
Then we go back to the Hoover administration and start again.
See the comment immediately preceding.
| 201 |
SpaceJesus Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:33:08pm |
re: #199 Emperor of the Universe
the communist michigan union bus
| 202 |
b_sharp Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:33:15pm |
re: #197 freetoken
What if everything is predetermined, and we have no free will?
This recent XKCD comes to mind.
It's either predetermined or probabilistic. Which would you prefer?
| 203 |
celticdragon Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:33:28pm |
re: #196 Kragar
Die die, manthing!
I mean, good luck with that.
Nasty, tricksy little rats...I've got a Runefang for all of you!
| 204 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:33:38pm |
re: #199 Emperor of the Universe
Missed the bus?
Yeah, I had a Zionist Overlords of Minnesota meeting.
| 205 |
Kragar Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:33:54pm |
re: #192 SpaceJesus
pro tip: conservatives are 100% bonkers
The following was actually written in the comments at a conservative blog about the busing nonsense.
Here Is what you have to believe to believe this nonsense.
1 bus companies have hundreds of buses worth millions of dollars just sitting idle during the busy summer season waiting for unions to charter them for the next election
2 all the émployees of bus companies including the owners and mgmt in addition to union drivers are all involved in this conspiracy. After all why has no one ever come forward to say this happened at their bus company
3. Union émployees all over the Midwest have the time off to travel hundreds of miles to cast a ballot. No one must be staffing the DMV or PO in IL, IA or MN if this is true.
So where is the evidence this has ever happened on a large scale??? No bus company employees ever come forward, no union voter ever mentioned doing this, no one ever sees a convoy of buses heading to such and such state. This is JFK conspiracy stuff
| 206 |
darthstar Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:34:12pm |
Holy crap! Rachel's pointing out the fact that Orly Taitz could come in second based on name recognition...which would mean Mitt Romney would have to endorse her against Feinstein in November.
| 207 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:34:36pm |
re: #206 darthstar
Holy crap! Rachel's pointing out the fact that Orly Taitz could come in second based on name recognition...which would mean Mitt Romney would have to endorse her against Feinstein in November.
vote taitz!
| 208 |
Varek Raith Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:34:38pm |
re: #206 darthstar
Holy crap! Rachel's pointing out the fact that Orly Taitz could come in second based on name recognition...which would mean Mitt Romney would have to endorse her against Feinstein in November.
ROFL
| 209 |
SpaceJesus Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:34:50pm |
hearing that walker lost the female vote by over 10%
| 210 |
Kragar Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:34:56pm |
re: #203 celticdragon
Nasty, tricksy little rats...I've got a Runefang for all of you!
Someday, I will have a Skaven force. For now, I'm sticking to my commitment of only one GW game.
| 211 |
b_sharp Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:35:04pm |
re: #205 Kragar
The following was actually written in the comments at a conservative blog about the busing nonsense.
Here Is what you have to believe to believe this nonsense.
1 bus companies have hundreds of buses worth millions of dollars just sitting idle during the busy summer season waiting for unions to charter them for the next election2 all the émployees of bus companies including the owners and mgmt in addition to union drivers are all involved in this conspiracy. After all why has no one ever come forward to say this happened at their bus company
3. Union émployees all over the Midwest have the time off to travel hundreds of miles to cast a ballot. No one must be staffing the DMV or PO in IL, IA or MN if this is true.
So where is the evidence this has ever happened on a large scale??? No bus company employees ever come forward, no union voter ever mentioned doing this, no one ever sees a convoy of buses heading to such and such state. This is JFK conspiracy stuff
Only assholes throw facts onto the table when we're busy emoting.
| 212 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:35:11pm |
| 213 |
Targetpractice Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:35:25pm |
re: #191 freetoken
Walker wins? Sounds like it might be what everyone seems to fear.
What if Walker wins, and wins strongly? Maybe wingnuts aren't a minority after all? Maybe the Moral Majority really is the majority?
What if?
Walker wins and wins big, then I believe the consensus is gonna end up being "People were afraid of changing governors." That people decided that they'd continue with the devil they knew than the devil they didn't.
| 216 |
Eventual Carrion Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:36:42pm |
| 217 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:36:50pm |
re: #187 celticdragon
The Inquisitor in the cubicle next to mine is giving me a real hard look. I'm going to ritually thump the cogitator twice and pour blessed unguents on top before saying three Ave Imperator's and then pretend our blasphemous conversation never happened...
Inquisitor you say
| 218 |
bratwurst Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:37:06pm |
re: #215 Kragar
I am firmly against Oily Taints.
Wait a sec...
I'll see your oily taint and raise you a rinsed pubis!
| 220 |
Eventual Carrion Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:37:36pm |
| 221 |
SpaceJesus Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:37:39pm |
re: #216 Emperor of the Universe
FOR THE LOVE OF JESUS REAGAN, STOP THAT BUS
| 222 |
darthstar Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:37:53pm |
re: #218 bratwurst
I'll see your oily taint and raise you a rinsed pubis!
I heard Reince Preibus causes falangism.
| 223 |
freetoken Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:38:13pm |
I am reminded why I didn't like Masterchef US last year - the judges really like playing assholes on TV. It's so over-the-top intensity for the sake of intensity on TV garbage.
Last year the show was caught doing fauxtography. I wonder what scam they'll try this year.
| 224 |
celticdragon Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:38:26pm |
re: #210 Kragar
Someday, I will have a Skaven force. For now, I'm sticking to my commitment of only one GW game.
I actually have a pretty damned big Skaven army. I call them "The Rat Bastards".
;)
One of my best games with them was against an Ogre Kingdom army. My skaven slaves actually collapsed one flank when they broke the unit facing them, ran the ogres down and ate them and caused two other units to break and flee...and one of those units was run down as well...and this was all after I shot the slaves in the back with a "ratling gun" to give them a little extra motivation.
Good times. :)
| 225 |
freetoken Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:40:27pm |
Wow, Walker is up to 60%.
God's people must have heard the call. Unions are of the devil.
| 226 |
Buck Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:41:35pm |
re: #225 freetoken
Wow, Walker is up to 60%.
God's people must have heard the call. Unions are of the devil.
Don't worry, the lawyers are already hired and lined up.
| 227 |
celticdragon Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:41:56pm |
re: #225 freetoken
Wow, Walker is up to 60%.
God's people must have heard the call. Unions are of the devil.
Only 11% precincts reporting. Let's see where we are standing when we have 75% reporting.
| 228 |
darthstar Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:42:08pm |
Romney at a fundraiser in Texas at a mansion that displays paintings by Hitler? WTF?
| 230 |
freetoken Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:42:36pm |
re: #227 celticdragon
13.6% reporting, and Walker is climbing.
| 231 |
celticdragon Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:44:15pm |
re: #228 darthstar
Romney at a fundraiser in Texas at a mansion that displays paintings by Hitler? WTF?
This ought to be fun to see how Romney explains this at the next AIPAC presser.
| 232 |
darthstar Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:44:20pm |
re: #229 SpaceJesus
eh?
Rachel just mentioned it...details in a few minutes. But apparently he doesn't mind if his donors have fondness for der Furher.
| 233 |
Varek Raith Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:45:01pm |
re: #228 darthstar
Romney at a fundraiser in Texas at a mansion that displays paintings by Hitler? WTF?
HAHAHAHAHA
| 234 |
Kragar Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:45:03pm |
re: #232 darthstar
Rachel just mentioned it...details in a few minutes. But apparently he doesn't mind if his donors have fondness for der Furher.
Anything as long as it gets him to 50.1%
| 235 |
darthstar Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:45:11pm |
re: #231 celticdragon
This ought to be fun to see how Romney explains this at the next AIPAC presser.
Let's just hope someone poses for a pic with Romney in front of one of the paintings and he doesn't know who it's by.
| 236 |
freetoken Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:45:23pm |
I will note that the Wisconsin Synod Lutherans are among the most conservative of all Lutherans, and yes, they are literal creationists.
| 237 |
freetoken Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:46:34pm |
Walker still over 60% with 16.5% of precincts reporting.
Unions are Evil!!
| 238 |
darthstar Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:46:44pm |
This is all taking time away from the Queen's jubilee.
| 239 |
celticdragon Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:46:56pm |
Check back in a bit. My figures are not going to paint themselves.
| 240 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:47:12pm |
re: #228 darthstar
Romney at a fundraiser in Texas at a mansion that displays paintings by Hitler? WTF?
Is this going to be like the Mao Christmas ornaments?
| 242 |
Dancing along the light of day Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:47:50pm |
LOVED seeing Orly Tatz posters in the OC!
| 243 |
brandoncraig Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:47:54pm |
If the law allows recalls, then of course citizens have the right to do it. But I personally think that recalls based on policy differences are a waste of taxpayer dollars.
If the Republicans decide to recall a Democratic governor because they don't like some policy he has instituted, I'd be against that as well.
I was against the recall of Gov. Davis in California and would have been against the recall of Gov. Frazier in North Dakota in 1921. He was recalled for being a socialist and believing in state ownership of industry.
| 244 |
darthstar Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:48:59pm |
Harlan Crow - Texas billionaire. Holding fundraiser for ObamaRomney. Two Hitler paintings and a signed copy of Mein Kampf on display. You can tell a lot about a Presidential candidate by the company he keeps.
Oops...Romney, not Obama...Fox slip!
| 245 |
Interesting Times Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:49:05pm |
Milwaukee & Madison will be counted last b/c of big population. This will take 4ever. Reading a book & occasional tweeting in the mean time.— Path2Enlightenment (@Path2Enlighten) June 6, 2012
| 247 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:50:25pm |
re: #244 darthstar
Harlan Crow - Texas billionaire. Holding fundraiser for
ObamaRomney. Two Hitler paintings and a signed copy of Mein Kampf on display. You can tell a lot about a Presidential candidate by the company he keeps.Oops...Romney, not Obama...Fox slip!
Check the fundraiser.
| 249 |
Amory Blaine Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:50:39pm |
re: #245 Interesting Times
Meh. Maybe Waukesha has a big ol' bag o ballots ready to go.
| 251 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:51:19pm |
For fuck's sake people....
Churchill. Roosevelt and Hitler, oh my! Welcome to Texas, Mitt Romney
Crow is quite a collector. His personal library would rival a small college, complete with first editions on American history, several original Gilbert Stewart paintings decorating the walls and, under long glass displays, letters of famous people from Thomas Jefferson to the Wright brothers. Then there’s the room mementos of the principals of World War II – on one wall, a painting by Winston Churchill, on another wall a landscape by Dwight Eisenhower and, on a third wall, two original paintings of a European city scene by Adolph Hitler. On an antique table is a signed copy of Churchill’s book on fly fishing. Outside, should Romney get an opportunity to wander the grounds, is a garden of tyrants. Crow has collected busts and statues of famous dictators of the past, which he displays with a certain elan on the lawn. There’s a head of Stalin, a rare statue of Fidel Castro, a towering Lenin and various other bad guys expropriated from their countries of origin.
Outrageous Outrage!
| 253 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:52:13pm |
I'm going to listen to my book for a while.
bbl
| 254 |
Kragar Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:52:27pm |
re: #250 darthstar
NBC just called it for Walker.
Well, that makes perfect sense with 20% of the vote in.
| 255 |
Romantic Heretic Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:52:30pm |
re: #174 ggt
And, who is your favorite writer?
John Ralston Saul He's a Canadian and lead an interesting life. He did okay as a literary author, won a couple of prizes. Then he went into history/philosophy.
If you pursue his work I recommend reading in this order.
Voltaire's Bastards: The Dictatorship of Reason in the West This book covers the history of Reason from its beginning in Athens with Socrates through to the Enlightenment and then to today. He's not against Reason as the title might be misinterpreted to mean but against Reason without the balancing effects of other important human traits.
The Doubter's Companion: A Dictionary of Aggressive Common Sense This is a lot like Birece's The Devil's Dictionary. It's less a method of fixing the meanings of words in stone than cogitating on the gaps between their supposed meanings and how they are used in everyday life.
On Equilibrium: Six Qualities of the New Humanism This ties together the first two books. He writes about what he regards as central human traits which are: common sense, ethics, imagination, intuition, memory and reason. He demonstrates that these things, in an individual and society, must be balanced by each other. Any one without the others is damaging and dangerous. I think it could be argued, under Mr. Saul's hypothesis, that the GOP as it now stands is memory without any of the other traits to restrain it.
Sorry to go on about him. But I really love his work.
| 256 |
Varek Raith Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:52:55pm |
re: #251 Killgore Trout
Funny that Buck updinged that. If it were Obama....
Lol.
| 258 |
Varek Raith Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:54:28pm |
| 260 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:56:38pm |
What was that bump? It seems the wheels came off!
| 261 |
Varek Raith Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:57:32pm |
re: #260 Killgore Trout
What was that bump? It seems the wheels came off!
What are you talking about?
| 262 |
blueraven Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:57:44pm |
re: #251 Killgore Trout
For fuck's sake people...
Churchill. Roosevelt and Hitler, oh my! Welcome to Texas, Mitt RomneyOutrageous Outrage!
So we are not allowed to even talk about it?
It is kind of weird to have a couple of Hitler paintings.
I dont see outrageous outrage.
| 263 |
Varek Raith Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:58:16pm |
re: #262 blueraven
So we are not allowed to even talk about it?
It is kind of weird to have a couple of Hitler paintings.
I dont see outrageous outrage.
I myself have Hitler paintings. Perfectly normal.
/
| 264 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:59:07pm |
I'll wait to see the Maddow segment before I pass judgement but this is why I trust MSNBC and CAP "blogs". Fox News by any other name still stinks.
| 265 |
Gus Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:59:14pm |
re: #263 Varek Raith
I myself have Hitler paintings. Perfectly normal.
/
Maybe if Romney wins he'll go lay some wreaths at the tombs of unmarked SS officers somewhere in Germany.
//
| 266 |
jaunte Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:59:20pm |
re: #262 blueraven
He could have Charles Manson paintings, but they're so common. Hitler paintings are much more desirable to the billionaire collector.
| 267 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:59:39pm |
Walker may end up winning this election, but I'm highly skeptical of calling the results when 25% of the ballots are counted.
| 268 |
Varek Raith Tue, Jun 5, 2012 6:59:47pm |
re: #264 Killgore Trout
I'll wait to see the Maddow segment before I pass judgement but this is why I trust MSNBC and CAP "blogs". Fox News by any other name still stinks.
Again, what are you talking about?
| 269 |
Buck Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:00:11pm |
re: #262 blueraven
It is kind of weird to have a couple of Hitler paintings.
Unless you are wealthy collector of that sort of historical works. then it is weird not to have that sort paintings.
He collects everything from all points in the political spectrum.
| 270 |
Gus Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:00:22pm |
re: #267 Charles Johnson
Walker may end up winning this election, but I'm highly skeptical of calling the results when 25% of the ballots are counted.
Yep. That's not really ethical journalism.
| 271 |
Eventual Carrion Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:00:32pm |
re: #262 blueraven
So we are not allowed to even talk about it?
It is kind of weird to have a couple of Hitler paintings.
I dont see outrageous outrage.
I know. I love my Charles Manson album "Love songs and Llama calls". He really put his heart and knife into that one.
| 272 |
GunstarGreen Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:00:42pm |
re: #262 blueraven
It would be wierd to have Hitler paintings by themselves.
But they're apparently actually part of a room-wide display that contains paintings done by Churchill and Eisenhower, also major figures from the same period, which lends substantial credence to the idea that it's just a history buff being complete rather than any particular love of Hitler.
While Hitler was a despicable man, to balk at anything and everything about him is silly. He was a man, not a demon.
| 273 |
Gus Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:01:08pm |
re: #271 Emperor of the Universe
I know. I love my Charles Manson album "Love songs and Llama calls". He really put his heart and knife into that one.
I wonder if Osama bin Laden dabbled in art.
//
| 274 |
Varek Raith Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:01:15pm |
re: #272 GunstarGreen
It would be wierd to have Hitler paintings by themselves.
But they're apparently actually part of a room-wide display that contains paintings done by Churchill and Eisenhower, also major figures from the same period, which lends substantial credence to the idea that it's just a history buff being complete rather than any particular love of Hitler.
While Hitler was a despicable man, to balk at anything and everything about him is silly. He was a man, not a demon.
I have no problem balking at anything Hitler did.
| 275 |
MittDoesNotCompute Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:01:20pm |
re: #267 Charles Johnson
Walker may end up winning this election, but I'm highly skeptical of calling the results when 25% of the ballots are counted.
I'm at work and have an allergic reaction to FoxNews, but I'm surprised no one's said if they've called it for Walker this early.
| 276 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:01:22pm |
re: #262 blueraven
So we are not allowed to even talk about it?
It is kind of weird to have a couple of Hitler paintings.
I dont see outrageous outrage.
Talk about it all you want but it seems Mitt was busted in close proximity to a collection of historical artifacts, not a Nazi compound.
| 277 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:01:34pm |
re: #267 Charles Johnson
Walker may end up winning this election, but I'm highly skeptical of calling the results when 25% of the ballots are counted.
Intrade has kept Walker at about 90% for a month or so. Nate Silver has been at the same percentage recently.
| 278 |
Targetpractice Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:03:09pm |
CNN now calling for Walker to narrowly keep his seat.
| 279 |
blueraven Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:03:15pm |
re: #269 Buck
Unless you are wealthy collector of that sort of historical works. then it is weird not to have that sort paintings.
He collects everything from all points in the political spectrum.
No Buck...it is pretty odd.
I am not making a judgment on the man, but it is unusual.
How many Hitler art collectors do you know?
| 280 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:03:28pm |
| 281 |
JamesWI Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:03:40pm |
re: #277 Decatur Deb
Intrade has kept Walker at about 90% for a month or so. Nate Silver has been at the same percentage recently.
No surprise here in Wisconsin. For every pro-Barrett/anti-Walker ad I saw on TV/the internet, I saw about 30 pro-Walker/anti-Barrett ads.
I voted today, but I had a strong feeling it would be pretty pointless.
| 283 |
Romantic Heretic Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:04:25pm |
re: #192 SpaceJesus
pro tip: conservatives are 100% bonkers
I'll disagree. Currently a large percentage of completely bonkers people are claiming to be conservatives.
I've known sane conservatives. Although admittedly they're getting fewer and farther between. Sort of a political Gresham's Law.
| 284 |
Kragar Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:04:38pm |
re: #281 JamesWI
No surprise here in Wisconsin. For every pro-Barrett/anti-Walker ad I saw on TV/the internet, I saw about 30 pro-Walker/anti-Barrett ad.
I voted today, but I had a strong feeling it would be pretty pointless.
Being a Koch-sucker really pays off.
| 285 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:05:33pm |
re: #267 Charles Johnson
Walker may end up winning this election, but I'm highly skeptical of calling the results when 25% of the ballots are counted.
Don't worry, that's why they always count Waukesha County last - that way they know how many votes they have to find.
| 286 |
Mich-again Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:05:39pm |
Mitt's host in Texas.. Harlan Crow.
Also in 2009, Crow provided $500,000 to the wife of Justice Thomas, Virginia Thomas, which she used to establish her Liberty Central political advocacy group. At that time, the sources of Liberty Central's startup funds weren't publicly disclosed.
Giving half a million to a Supreme Court Judge's wife so she can start a lobbying organization. Philanthropy!
| 288 |
celticdragon Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:06:38pm |
re: #269 Buck
Unless you are wealthy collector of that sort of historical works. then it is weird not to have that sort paintings.
He collects everything from all points in the political spectrum.
I will be kind and assume you have been feeling unwell and therefore not in a good frame of mind to have made a statement like that.
| 289 |
Gus Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:06:41pm |
re: #284 Kragar
Being a Koch-sucker really pays off.
Tonight rich white males will sleep easily knowing that their college drop-out hack has won the election.
Of course I figured he would win all along given his strong polling numbers.
| 290 |
Obdicut Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:07:08pm |
re: #279 blueraven
Really, it's just that often extremely wealthy people are just very odd. They covet things of rarity, even though many might find 'em distasteful. I mean, the whole being ludicrously wealthy thing is already kind of distasteful, so why not blow a ton of money on a painting by Hitler?
Hitler's not making any money off of it, and unless the painting somehow inspires Fascism, there's no real problem with it. It just speaks to the level of nuttiness of a collector.
People collect stuff that murderers had, too. If someone said they had one of Billy the Kid's saddles, nobody would find it weird, but Billy the Kid was a psychopath who murdered people.
| 291 |
Varek Raith Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:07:44pm |
I'm a history buff.
I wouldn't collect anything made by Hitler. You couldn't give it to me for free.
Fuck Hitler.
| 292 |
Buck Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:08:13pm |
re: #288 celticdragon
I will be kind and assume you have been feeling unwell and therefore not in a good frame of mind to have made a statement like that.
Well, I assume you quote me out of context. I was replying to a question. I stand by my reply.
| 293 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:09:09pm |
re: #290 Obdicut
Really, it's just that often extremely wealthy people are just very odd. They covet things of rarity, even though many might find 'em distasteful. I mean, the whole being ludicrously wealthy thing is already kind of distasteful, so why not blow a ton of money on a painting by Hitler?
Hitler's not making any money off of it, and unless the painting somehow inspires Fascism, there's no real problem with it. It just speaks to the level of nuttiness of a collector.
People collect stuff that murderers had, too. If someone said they had on of Billy the Kid's saddles, nobody would find it weird, but Billy the Kid was a psychopath who murdered people.
Getting a little tenuous. Wagner music--bad, Hitler art--OK?
| 294 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:09:23pm |
re: #269 Buck
Unless you are wealthy collector of that sort of historical works. then it is weird not to have that sort paintings.
He collects everything from all points in the political spectrum.
I downdinged this because the grammar was atrocious
| 295 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:09:40pm |
that sort paintings what hitler me no like stuff
| 296 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:09:54pm |
do it have conservative me love jesus ?!?!?!
| 297 |
Buck Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:09:59pm |
re: #294 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]
I downdinged this because the grammar was atrocious
grammar nazi
| 298 |
Obdicut Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:10:00pm |
re: #293 Decatur Deb
Getting a little tenuous. Wagner music--bad, Hitler art--OK?
My ear is so delicately tuned it can tell the difference between Wagner and a sewer being repaired by howler monkeys wearing cymbals on their feet.
| 300 |
Eventual Carrion Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:10:08pm |
re: #286 Mich-again
Mitt's host in Texas.. Harlan Crow.
Giving half a million to a Supreme Court Judge's wife so she can start a lobbying organization. Philanthropy!
Gotta help those downtrodden corporations get their word *money* out there to voice their needs. They give so much and expect so little.
| 301 |
Gus Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:10:09pm |
Heck. You know America's, make that Wall Street's, record with the 3rd Reich prior to 1939 give or take.
...cough.
| 302 |
JamesWI Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:10:16pm |
re: #291 Varek Raith
I'm a history buff.
I wouldn't collect anything made by Hitler. You couldn't give it to me for free.
Fuck Hitler.
The only way I could accept a Hitler painting is if I was like the guy in that one episode of "Justified."
Buying up every Hitler painting he could find, so he could burn them, and keep the jars of ashes.
| 304 |
celticdragon Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:11:17pm |
re: #291 Varek Raith
I'm a history buff.
I wouldn't collect anything made by Hitler. You couldn't give it to me for free.
Fuck Hitler.
Along with the painting, the guy has a signed copy of Main Kampf.
Make of that what you will. Two Hitler artifacts in the same private collection start raising red flags with me. I'm going to go with the Indiana Jones meme of "It belongs in a museum!"
| 306 |
bratwurst Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:11:40pm |
re: #293 Decatur Deb
Getting a little tenuous. Wagner music--bad, Hitler art--OK?
Wait until Romney attends a fundraising performance of Parsifal!
| 308 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:11:50pm |
re: #297 Buck
grammar nazi
More a grammar marxist, thanks
Why can't conservatives write? lol, education!
| 309 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:12:02pm |
In Wisconsin, it must suck to be a bus driver, teacher or cop tonight.
| 311 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:12:24pm |
re: #304 celticdragon
Along with the painting, the guy has a signed copy of Main Kampf.
Make of that what you will. Two Hitler artifacts in the same private collection start raising red flags with me. I'm going to go with the Indiana Jones meme of "It belongs in a museum!"
It belongs in a landfill.
| 312 |
GunstarGreen Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:12:34pm |
re: #290 Obdicut
Hitler's not making any money off of it, and unless the painting somehow inspires Fascism, there's no real problem with it. It just speaks to the level of nuttiness of a collector.
Pretty much this. The paintings are reportedly just European cityscapes. Completely innocuous. If you had not been told that Hitler painted them you would not think twice about them.
Again, I condemn him as a terrible, evil man just as much as the next person. I don't believe in Hell, but if there were such a place he would be one of the extremely small number of people I think would deserve it. But they're just paintings, and especially in the context of their display they are simply part of a collection of paintings done by famous historical figures.
To attempt to whitewash history as if the man never existed is almost as bad as being a denier of certain acts he's famous for.
| 313 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:12:45pm |
re: #309 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012
In Wisconsin, it must suck to be a bus driver, teacher or cop tonight.
I'm sure wisconsin is just the beginning
| 314 |
jaunte Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:12:50pm |
Okay, wonderful. Everyone's called it. Now can we count the votes? mw #WIrecall
— Charles P. Pierce (@ESQPolitics) June 6, 2012
| 315 |
Tigger2 Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:13:24pm |
| 316 |
Obdicut Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:13:42pm |
re: #312 GunstarGreen
To attempt to whitewash history as if the man never existed is almost as bad as being a denier of certain acts he's famous for.
Nobody is attempting to pretend Hitler never existed, though. I'm not sure why you're bringing that up.
| 317 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:13:56pm |
re: #315 Tigger2
Welcome to the world of Citizens United.
the dark future is here! I'm so thrilled
when do we get to eat reconstituted human meat
| 318 |
Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:14:37pm |
re: #299 bratwurst
Worst. Cookbook. EVER!
Hey, if Poo is all you have to cook with then you might as well try to make it as tasty as you can... :0
/
| 319 |
Varek Raith Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:14:48pm |
re: #312 GunstarGreen
I'm not whitewashing anything.
If people want to collect his shit, fine.
I'll laugh at them.
| 320 |
Mich-again Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:15:11pm |
re: #305 Varek Raith
Walker $ 45 million.
Barret $ 9 million.
Do they get the $45 million back when Walker gets indicted ?
| 321 |
jamesfirecat Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:15:25pm |
re: #317 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]
the dark future is here! I'm so thrilled
when do we get to eat reconstituted human meat
I'm sure it won't stay that way for long don't worry, before you know it everything will be soy, soy, and just for a change more soy.
I would worry about it but I need go to watch the next episode of My Little Pony Friendship is Emergence.
| 322 |
Obdicut Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:15:49pm |
I'm fairly sure that if all Hitler's paintings were burned-- not that I want that, but if-- that he'd probably still get remembered for other stuff.
Just a hunch.
| 323 |
Interesting Times Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:16:43pm |
BREAKING:David Koch wins the Wisconsin Governor's Recall Election.#WIrecall #p2— Shoq Value (@Shoq) June 6, 2012
| 324 |
celticdragon Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:17:02pm |
re: #311 Decatur Deb
It belongs in a landfill.
Probably, although my historian side dislikes destroying artifacts. Something like that should be given to the Smithsonian to demonstrate that Hitler was banal as well as evil, and that his evil was human and therefore cannot be just wished away as the failure of one charismatic nut. His paintings are part of his humanity. Their sheer insipidity and banality remind us all that he was one of us and we all have the capacity for evil.
| 325 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:17:54pm |
re: #302 JamesWI
The only way I could accept a Hitler is if I was like the guy in that one episode of "Justified."
Buying up every Hitler painting he could find, so he could burn them, and keep the jars of ashes.
you could start a hitler painting museum and all the admission fees could go to charity, families of holocaust victims
rich people that collect crazy useless ultraexpensive antiquities and such instead of using the money to start businesses, charities, new art projects, etc, they're just really boring and dumb, speaks volumes for how uncreative and animal-like they are
ME HAVE COOL THINGS ME BOUGHT ME BETTER
| 326 |
GunstarGreen Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:18:11pm |
re: #324 celticdragon
Probably, although my historian side dislikes destroying artifacts. Something like that should be given to the Smithsonian to demonstrate that Hitler was banal as well as evil, and that his evil was human and therefore cannot be just wished away as the failure of one charismatic nut. His paintings are part of his humanity. Their sheer insipidity and banality remind us all that he was one of us and we all have the capacity for evil.
Precisely what I've been attempting to express. Thank you for being far better with words than I am.
| 327 |
Varek Raith Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:18:14pm |
Boy, if an Obama fundraiser had Stalin stuff....
...
..
.
| 328 |
JamesWI Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:19:07pm |
You'd think they'd at least wait until they had more than 10% of Milwaukee County in before they'd call what is supposed to be a close election.
You know.....considering there are hundreds of thousands of potential votes there.....
| 329 |
celticdragon Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:19:08pm |
re: #315 Tigger2
Welcome to the world of Citizens United.
Our democracy is being wheeled into the morgue. Look at the spending figures for Walker vs Barret. That will be the reality forever, only more so when the unions are crushed for good. We will have a one party state.
| 330 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:19:26pm |
re: #327 Varek Raith
Boy, if an Obama fundraiser had Stalin stuff...
...
..
.
Bill Ayers allegedly had a Mao jacket.
| 331 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:19:44pm |
re: #329 celticdragon
Our democracy is being wheeled into the morgue. Look at the spending figures for Walker vs Barret. That will be the reality forever, only more so when the unions are crushed for good. We will have a one party state.
yeah, but I bet the food riots will be AWESOME
| 332 |
Obdicut Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:20:23pm |
re: #329 celticdragon
Nothing is forever. Especially in terms of nations and politics.
| 333 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:20:53pm |
| 334 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:21:46pm |
re: #330 Decatur Deb
Bill Ayers allegedly had a Mao jacket.
Yes, sadly we are now lumping Maddow and Breitbart into the same category of dishonest hackery. It's a shame because she's smarter than that.
| 335 |
Varek Raith Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:22:06pm |
re: #334 Killgore Trout
Yes, sadly we are now lumping Maddow and Breitbart into the same category of dishonest hackery. It's a shame because she's smarter than that.
Bullshit.
| 336 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:22:11pm |
re: #332 Obdicut
Nothing is forever. Especially in terms of nations and politics.
Is that supposed to be encouragement, or commiseration?
| 337 |
jaunte Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:22:13pm |
re: #327 Varek Raith
You may recall some outrage over Obama making a speech near a column in Germany.
| 338 |
Varek Raith Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:22:46pm |
re: #337 jaunte
You may recall some outrage over Obama making a speech near a column in Germany.
Right!
I forgot about that.
| 339 |
Gus Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:23:08pm |
re: #327 Varek Raith
Boy, if an Obama fundraiser had Stalin stuff...
...
..
.
Wouldn't even take that...
Obama was photographed at a garden party in Chicago as an obscure history professor who specialized on Stalin stood in far off in the background. You can see him there even though he's unfocused! We're doomed!
| 340 |
Gus Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:23:38pm |
As predicted. Ladies and gentleman...
RWMOFO is in da house!
L-O-L.
| 341 |
Varek Raith Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:24:29pm |
Look at us foaming at the mouth about stolen elections!
Oh, wait.
| 342 |
Obdicut Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:24:33pm |
re: #336 Decatur Deb
Is that supposed to be encouragement, or commiseration?
Heh. Neither. But there seems to be this repeated idea by those in the GOP of a permanent majority. It can't happen, even with all the ballot-rigging in the world. Putin's thugs won't always be in charge of Russia. China's party is crumbling right now, and will either mutate or break.
Things may not get better but they will always change.
| 343 |
Gus Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:24:55pm |
re: #337 jaunte
You may recall some outrage over Obama making a speech near a column in Germany.
Don't forget how they made a big deal about the columns at the big Denver shindig.
| 344 |
Obdicut Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:24:57pm |
re: #334 Killgore Trout
Yes, sadly we are now lumping Maddow and Breitbart into the same category of dishonest hackery. It's a shame because she's smarter than that.
Who is 'we'?
| 345 |
jaunte Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:25:11pm |
Walker: "To celebrate tonight's victory, there's no school for the rest of the decade." bit.ly/NeV4m7 #WIrecall
— Andy Borowitz (@BorowitzReport) June 6, 2012
| 347 |
Targetpractice Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:25:46pm |
I think a helluva lot of people who voted in the recall were voting against the recall itself.— Charles P. Pierce (@ESQPolitics) June 6, 2012
| 348 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:26:20pm |
I SURE DO LOVE RONALD REAGAN
| 349 |
Tigger2 Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:26:33pm |
| 350 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:26:44pm |
re: #334 Killgore Trout
Yes, sadly we are now lumping Maddow and Breitbart into the same category of dishonest hackery. It's a shame because she's smarter than that.
MAY I CRADLE YOUR THROBBING MEMO??
| 351 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:27:01pm |
| 352 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:27:24pm |
| 353 |
MittDoesNotCompute Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:27:26pm |
re: #320 Mich-again
Do they get the $45 million back when Walker gets indicted ?
If Walker does pull this off (and he just might), let it be a Pyrrhic victory; whether or not he's still governor of WI tomorrow, I hope he has to do the perp walk over this corruption shit.
| 354 |
celticdragon Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:27:51pm |
re: #332 Obdicut
Nothing is forever. Especially in terms of nations and politics.
A noble sentiment, but not bourne out by history. The Roman Empire had a good go of it, but it is gone. So is the British Empire for all intents. The Persian Empire? Not around anymore. Neither are Sparta, Carthage, or a hundred other nation states that one can name.
There is no guarentee that the United States will survive this century in the same physical and political shape that she entered it, and there is no guarentee that democracy is the last word in human governance.
We have our nation only as long as we keep it, and that hold is tenuous at the moment.
| 355 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:28:01pm |
re: #348 rw mofo
I SURE DO LOVE RONALD REAGAN
Heh.
"These are the values inspiring those brave workers in Poland ... They remind us that where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost."
--Ronald Reagan, Labor Day Address at Liberty State Park, 1980
| 356 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:28:06pm |
re: #351 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012
No capecoddah?
I LOVED HER SO
WE SPENT THAT NIGHT IN PROVO, SLEEPING AMONGST THE ROACHES
| 358 |
GunstarGreen Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:28:14pm |
50% reporting, Walker hovering fairly steady around 60%. Doesn't look good, but let's hope the late reporters can pull out a surge.
| 359 |
Obdicut Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:28:39pm |
re: #354 celticdragon
A noble sentiment, but not bourne out by history. The Roman Empire had a good go of it, but it is gone. So is the British Empire for all intents. The Persian Empire? Not around anymore. Neither are Sparta, Carthage, or a hundred other nation states that one can name.
There is no guarentee that the United States will survive this century in the same physical and political shape that she entered it, and there is no guarentee that democracy is the last word in human governance.
We have our nation only as long as we keep it, and that hold is tenuous at the moment.
That was, actually, my point.
| 360 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:28:46pm |
re: #355 William Barnett-Lewis
Heh.
NOT THAT ONE, THE OTHER ONE
THE ONE WITH THE WIFE THAT THOUGHT ASTROLOGY WAS REAL
| 361 |
JamesWI Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:29:18pm |
re: #358 GunstarGreen
50% reporting, Walker hovering fairly steady around 60%. Doesn't look good, but let's hope the late reporters can pull out a surge.
Still only 12% of Milwaukee County reporting, and the areas that have reported seem to be the pro-Walker areas.
| 362 |
rwmofo Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:29:42pm |
Ya gotta love that song.
| 363 |
Mich-again Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:29:55pm |
Romney in Dallas ripping on GM again at the $25 million home of another Richie Rich GOP contributor. I wonder if he mentioned how GM is sinking $100 million into the nearby GM Arlington plant to modernize it while thousands of UAW workers work OT every week. If Mitt had his way in 2009 GM would have been liquidated by now and who knows when the dominoes would have stopped falling.
| 364 |
blueraven Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:30:01pm |
re: #334 Killgore Trout
Yes, sadly we are now lumping Maddow and Breitbart into the same category of dishonest hackery. It's a shame because she's smarter than that.
What are you talking about?
| 365 |
Gus Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:30:05pm |
re: #335 Varek Raith
Bullshit.
No doubt. And knowing Maddow it probably was way more nuanced and within the context of the hysterical right wing smears over the past 4 years.
| 366 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:30:15pm |
FOR MY BLESSED SON
| 367 |
bratwurst Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:30:15pm |
re: #351 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012
No capecoddah?
The woman who literally knew HUNDREDS of homosexuals who were ALL extremely promiscuous. ALL OF THEM.
| 368 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:30:47pm |
| 369 |
Mich-again Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:31:08pm |
re: #334 Killgore Trout
Yes, sadly we are now lumping Maddow and Breitbart into the same category of dishonest hackery. It's a shame because she's smarter than that.
What's this "we" stuff? You got a mouse in your pocket?
| 370 |
jaunte Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:31:14pm |
re: #365 Gus
Mostly she smiled about what an outrage the same story would have been if the roles were reversed.
| 371 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:31:19pm |
re: #367 bratwurst
The woman who literally knew HUNDREDS of homosexuals who were ALL extremely promiscuous. ALL OF THEM.
LIKE SLEEVE OF WIZARD
| 372 |
Varek Raith Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:31:29pm |
Don't forget the wonderful investigation that Walker is currently under.
| 373 |
Interesting Times Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:31:33pm |
What's Total Destruction of the Entire American Labor Movement priced at on InTrade?— Christopher Hayes (@chrislhayes) June 6, 2012
| 374 |
celticdragon Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:32:05pm |
re: #359 Obdicut
That was, actually, my point.
I was over-reading meaning into it. I think I need a drink.
| 375 |
freetoken Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:32:21pm |
Repeat after me:
PRESIDENT ROMNEY PRESIDENT ROMNEY PRESIDENT ROMNEY PRESIDENT ROMNEY PRESIDENT ROMNEY PRESIDENT ROMNEY PRESIDENT ROMNEY PRESIDENT ROMNEY PRESIDENT ROMNEY PRESIDENT ROMNEY PRESIDENT ROMNEY PRESIDENT ROMNEY PRESIDENT ROMNEY PRESIDENT ROMNEY PRESIDENT ROMNEY PRESIDENT ROMNEY PRESIDENT ROMNEY PRESIDENT ROMNEY PRESIDENT ROMNEY PRESIDENT ROMNEY PRESIDENT ROMNEY PRESIDENT ROMNEY PRESIDENT ROMNEY PRESIDENT ROMNEY PRESIDENT ROMNEY PRESIDENT ROMNEY PRESIDENT ROMNEY PRESIDENT ROMNEY PRESIDENT ROMNEY PRESIDENT ROMNEY PRESIDENT ROMNEY PRESIDENT ROMNEY PRESIDENT ROMNEY
Kind of awkward, poetically speaking. For us English speakers, the ending of "nt" in "President" slows us down, and starting the word with an "Ro" slows us down even more. The easiest for pronunciation was probably "President Adams", and "Romney" only has two syllables so it lacks a certain panache that longer names can bring (like "Roosevelt".)
| 376 |
Varek Raith Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:32:44pm |
re: #375 freetoken
Repeat after me:
PRESIDENT ROMNEY PRESIDENT ROMNEY PRESIDENT ROMNEY PRESIDENT ROMNEY PRESIDENT ROMNEY PRESIDENT ROMNEY PRESIDENT ROMNEY PRESIDENT ROMNEY PRESIDENT ROMNEY PRESIDENT ROMNEY PRESIDENT ROMNEY PRESIDENT ROMNEY PRESIDENT ROMNEY PRESIDENT ROMNEY PRESIDENT ROMNEY PRESIDENT ROMNEY PRESIDENT ROMNEY PRESIDENT ROMNEY PRESIDENT ROMNEY PRESIDENT ROMNEY PRESIDENT ROMNEY PRESIDENT ROMNEY PRESIDENT ROMNEY PRESIDENT ROMNEY PRESIDENT ROMNEY PRESIDENT ROMNEY PRESIDENT ROMNEY PRESIDENT ROMNEY PRESIDENT ROMNEY PRESIDENT ROMNEY PRESIDENT ROMNEY PRESIDENT ROMNEY PRESIDENT ROMNEY
Kind of awkward, poetically speaking. For us English speakers, the ending of "nt" in "President" slows us down, and starting the word with an "Ro" slows us down even more. The easiest for pronunciation was probably "President Adams", and "Romney" only has two syllables so it lacks a certain panache that longer names can bring (like "Roosevelt".)
Put down the bong.
:P
| 377 |
jaunte Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:32:45pm |
paging copy editor....RT @Gawker: Scott Walker Retains Senate Seat in Close Recall Election gaw.kr/dyfx”
— Eric Boehlert (@EricBoehlert) June 6, 2012
| 378 |
jvic Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:33:54pm |
re: #306 bratwurst
Wait until Romney attends a fundraising performance of Parsifal!
Meh.
If his favorite opera was Götterdämmerung, I'd be concerned.
| 379 |
compound_Idaho Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:33:59pm |
re: #361 JamesWI
20% landslide. Nothing will pull this out. Late opinion polls showed a very close race. Is polling completely worthless/fraud/lies? WTF
| 380 |
Barflytom Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:34:00pm |
Good for Scott Walker - it's great to see the public union thugs losing.
The real reason they got so worked up about Walker is of course because he stopped them from being able to force public employees to belong to unions - and to pay their union "dues" / protection money.
Public union membership fell dramatically when that reform came in.
Hopefully this will encourage others to enact similar reforms and break the public sector unions once and for all.
| 381 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:34:04pm |
re: #364 blueraven
What are you talking about?
Rachel Maddow. Why? Check his previous misogynistic hate comment about her. No why.
| 382 |
Mich-again Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:34:55pm |
Although I have never worked a union job, I am smart enough to know that I am indebted to labor unions for the wages, benefits, and safe working conditions I have in my job.
| 383 |
rwmofo Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:35:34pm |
Celebrate Good Times...Come on!
It's definitely "Kool and the Gang" in Wisconsin today.
| 384 |
Obdicut Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:35:43pm |
re: #380 Barflytom
Can you explain what makes a teacher-- like my brother Mike-- who spends money out of his own pocket on materials for kids, spends about three hours a day outside of work, uncompensated, coming up with new lesson plans, etc., and goes out of his way to meet with every parent that will see him to talk about their children's education-- a thug?
| 385 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:35:46pm |
re: #380 Barflytom
Good for Scott Walker - it's great to see the public union thugs losing.
The real reason they got so worked up about Walker is of course because he stopped them from being able to force public employees to belong to unions - and to pay their union "dues" / protection money.
Public union membership fell dramatically when that reform came in.
Hopefully this will encourage others to enact similar reforms and break the public sector unions once and for all.
*KISS* MAY I BURNISH YOUR BEARD
| 386 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:36:16pm |
re: #383 rwmofo
Celebrate Good Times...Come on!
It's definitely "Kool and the Gang" in Wisconsin today.
IT IS GOOD WHEN BLACK MAN SING FOR WHITE MASTER!
| 388 |
Varek Raith Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:36:22pm |
re: #380 Barflytom
Good for Scott Walker - it's great to see the public union thugs losing.
The real reason they got so worked up about Walker is of course because he stopped them from being able to force public employees to belong to unions - and to pay their union "dues" / protection money.
Public union membership fell dramatically when that reform came in.
Hopefully this will encourage others to enact similar reforms and break the public sector unions once and for all.
How about those corporate thugs completely outspending anyone else?
Walker 45 million.
Barrett 9 million.
| 389 |
freetoken Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:36:36pm |
Drudge is gloating.
The Kingdom of Koch has come.
Eschatology was never so much fun.
| 390 |
Tigger2 Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:37:00pm |
re: #380 Barflytom
Good for Scott Walker - it's great to see the public union thugs losing.
The real reason they got so worked up about Walker is of course because he stopped them from being able to force public employees to belong to unions - and to pay their union "dues" / protection money.
Public union membership fell dramatically when that reform came in.
Hopefully this will encourage others to enact similar reforms and break the public sector unions once and for all.
Hey Unions built the middle class, if Unions go away so does the middle class, if that happens let me know how you feel about not having as much money because all wages will drop.
| 391 |
celticdragon Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:37:28pm |
I really need a fucking drink.
| 392 |
Altermite Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:37:36pm |
re: #384 Obdicut
Can you explain what makes a teacher-- like my brother Mike-- who spends money out of his own pocket on materials for kids, spends about three hours a day outside of work, uncompensated, coming up with new lesson plans, etc., and goes out of his way to meet with every parent that will see him to talk about their children's education-- a thug?
His thug hat. All thugs have these special, pointy hats they wear for their thuggish ways, like selflessly educating children.
| 393 |
Mich-again Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:37:37pm |
re: #380 Barflytom
it's great to see the public union thugs losing.
Yeah, public school teachers with Master's Degrees making $50K a year. THUGS!
You're an idiot.
| 394 |
Obdicut Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:38:18pm |
re: #390 Tigger2
Hey Unions built the middle class, if Unions go away so does the middle class, if that happens let me know how you feel about not having as much money because all wages will drop.
Which has already basically happened. As union membership has declined, wages have stagnated. It's not a direct correlation, of course-- globalization has had a lot to do with it, as has the explosion of financial asshattery as the prime way to make money, but it is related.
| 395 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:38:26pm |
*caresses Barflytom's luscious belly*
| 396 |
Gus Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:38:31pm |
re: #391 celticdragon
I really need a fucking drink.
Yep. We need to put that up in lights every time some asshole comes in here celebrating Walker's win. But hey. What do I know. I'm part of the "purity police." (cough)
| 398 |
HappyWarrior Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:38:50pm |
re: #388 Varek Raith
How about those corporate thugs completely outspending anyone else?
Walker 45 million.
Barrett 9 million.
Come on you know that's "different." Corporations are people. Unions are satanic.
| 399 |
Interesting Times Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:39:11pm |
| 400 |
Mich-again Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:39:24pm |
re: #390 Tigger2
Hey Unions built the middle class, if Unions go away so does the middle class, if that happens let me know how you feel about not having as much money because all wages will drop.
If the Middle Class goes away, the entire economy withers and dies and when that happens all your gold and guns won't keep you safe.
| 401 |
Kragar Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:39:33pm |
Want to make a decent wage and actually be able to take care of your family? Don't be a teacher, learn a real skill... except no one will be around to teach it.
Well, fuck.
| 402 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:39:37pm |
re: #393 Mich-again
Yeah, public school teachers with Master's Degrees making $50K a year. THUGS!
You're an idiot.
Now now, idiots are smarter than that.
This is just kneejerk hate. Doesn't require anything but thinking what he's told to think like all the Good Germans.
| 403 |
jaunte Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:39:55pm |
MENDOZA v. ZIRKLE FRUIT CO
This case arises from claims that two agricultural companies leveraged the hiring of undocumented immigrants in order to depress the wages of their legally documented employees.
Recently, fruit company executives at Zirkle agreed to pay $ 1.3M to settle a RICO lawsuit which alleged that undocumented workers were hired in order to keep wages low.
| 404 |
JamesWI Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:39:59pm |
re: #388 Varek Raith
How about those corporate thugs completely outspending anyone else?
Walker 45 million.
Barrett 9 million.
Difference in November - Obama's already got the money to fight off the corporate PACs, and he's only going to get more of it.
| 405 |
freetoken Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:40:23pm |
If you look at the HuffPo Results graph:
[Link: elections.huffingtonpost.com...]
it seems that Walker has improved his standing in most counties compared to 2010. This is not a good sign for the WI Democratic party machine.
| 406 |
Targetpractice Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:40:26pm |
re: #390 Tigger2
Hey Unions built the middle class, if Unions go away so does the middle class, if that happens let me know how you feel about not having as much money because all wages will drop.
Now now, you know better. Public unions are totally evil and are the reason the states are in such dire economic straits, when they could be running gangbusters right now! But private unions, those are great folks...except the UAW...and the Teamsters...the SEIU...
///
| 407 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:40:35pm |
Grumbles from the gulag...
Well, it isn't over yet, but it does not look good.
Perhaps I should write a eulogy for our democracy. It seems American voters are happier with corporate masters.
| 408 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:40:38pm |
| 409 |
Mich-again Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:41:14pm |
Actually, Walker winning now may hurt Romney's chances in November.
| 410 |
Gus Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:41:24pm |
Celebrate. Let's sing songs! "Oh I wish I was in the land of cotton old times they are not forgotten..."
//
| 411 |
HappyWarrior Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:41:24pm |
re: #405 freetoken
If you look at the HuffPo Results graph:
[Link: elections.huffingtonpost.com...]
it seems that Walker has improved his standing in most counties compared to 2010. This is not a good sign for the WI Democratic party machine.
I wonder what people actually see in Walker. He seems like no better than a bully to me.
| 412 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:41:36pm |
re: #408 Decatur Deb
It's more fun than getting mad! (I'm completely sober, btw)
| 413 |
celticdragon Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:41:48pm |
re: #399 Interesting Times
rwmofo and barflytom heartily approve.
Gay people in hospitals are union thugs.
| 414 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:42:03pm |
re: #390 Tigger2
Hey Unions built the middle class, if Unions go away so does the middle class, if that happens let me know how you feel about not having as much money because all wages will drop.
And they already did. Electricians to teachers, 10% cuts in salary in Wisconsin because of that law. Did that mean that 10% more electricians and teachers were hired? Of course not.
| 415 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:42:07pm |
re: #407 LudwigVanQuixote
Grumbles from the gulag...
Well, it isn't over yet, but it does not look good.
Perhaps I should write a eulogy for our democracy. It seems American voters are happier with corporate masters.
Santorum ran a pure Falangist platform and almost carried the day.
Look to January 1936 in Spain for what comes next.
| 417 |
Varek Raith Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:42:28pm |
re: #399 Interesting Times
rwmofo and barflytom heartily approve.
Buck doesn't, but he'll vote for them anyway.
| 418 |
Targetpractice Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:42:54pm |
re: #411 HappyWarrior
I wonder what people actually see in Walker. He seems like no better than a bully to me.
I think Pierce's tweet up above was right, most folks weren't supporting Walker, they were voting against the recall, voting against the demonic unions that $45 million in ads convinced them were the ones behind the whole mess.
| 420 |
HappyWarrior Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:42:59pm |
People bitch about unions yet have no problem with corporate executives paying themselves 8 figure salaries while laying employees off. It's such a strange mentality.
| 422 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:43:36pm |
re: #416 Padre
Yay Scott Walker!!
I love Jesus! Public unions are bad!
Obama is a bad leader!
Do I get banned?
No, just laughed at.
Edit: Oh, ok, the Boss says banned and laughed at. No problem for me.
| 423 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:43:48pm |
re: #415 William Barnett-Lewis
Santorum ran a pure Falangist platform and almost carried the day.
Look to January 1936 in Spain for what comes next.
Well said and I have been calling that for two or three years now. Fascist is as fascist does and all.
Ours just have more plastic smiles.
| 424 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:43:50pm |
re: #416 Padre
Yay Scott Walker!!
I love Jesus! Public unions are bad!
Obama is a bad leader!
Do I get banned?
Ask SpaceJesus what it takes.
| 425 |
Tigger2 Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:43:57pm |
re: #414 LudwigVanQuixote
And they already did. Electricians to teachers, 10% cuts in salary in Wisconsin because of that law. Did that mean that 10% more electricians and teachers were hired? Of course not.
You can't get a Conservative to understand that they can't put two and two together.
| 427 |
HappyWarrior Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:44:13pm |
re: #418 Targetpractice
I think Pierce's tweet up above was right, most folks weren't supporting Walker, they were voting against the recall, voting against the demonic unions that $45 million in ads convinced them were the ones behind the whole mess.
Ah I didn't see that. I can see why people would have a problem with the recall honestly. But voting for Walker because of it? Agh.
| 428 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:44:26pm |
| 429 |
Targetpractice Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:44:27pm |
re: #420 HappyWarrior
People bitch about unions yet have no problem with corporate executives paying themselves 8 figure salaries while laying employees off. It's such a strange mentality.
Well, you know, a corporate exec worked his way up, he deserves that pay! Even if he gets a huge bonus while his company's going down the crapper. But the union boss, he's a parasite who's stealing from union members while doing nothing for them. He must be reviled, without delay!
| 430 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:44:28pm |
When people really want to be banned, I'm happy to oblige.
| 431 |
Varek Raith Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:44:45pm |
| 432 |
brandoncraig Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:44:59pm |
But with corporate executives, it is private money. With public employees, it is tax payer money.
| 433 |
Mich-again Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:45:48pm |
re: #432 brandoncraig
But with corporate executives, it is private money. With public employees, it is tax payer money.
Yes, but elected officials negotiate the contracts. Who elected them?
| 434 |
HappyWarrior Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:45:57pm |
re: #429 Targetpractice
Pretty much. I get why wealthy people buy that. What I don't get is when middle class people buy into it. To use a cliche. The unions did build this country and lay the foundation for the middle class. If the anti union people had their way, we'd still be forcing children to work and allowing employers to do whatever the hell they want to their employees. Tired of the anti-union mentality that I see from people who want to ignore history.
| 435 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:45:59pm |
re: #430 Charles Johnson
When people really want to be banned, I'm happy to oblige.
Profligate waste. There was more sport in that one.
| 436 |
celticdragon Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:46:20pm |
re: #401 Kragar
Want to make a decent wage and actually be able to take car of your family? Don't be a teacher, learn a real skill... except no one will be around to teach it.
Well, fuck.
Naw, you can send your kid to the Bobby Jindal Reel Sooper Bible Skool whair theay kan lern abowt histoury an' how teh slavees had it reel gud untill teh ebil carpetbaggggers came an' took tem from thair masters...and all from an approved Biblical perspective!
| 437 |
jaunte Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:46:23pm |
One corporate executive can't buy as much stuff as 500 public employees.
| 438 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:46:37pm |
re: #432 brandoncraig
But with corporate executives, it is private money. With public employees, it is tax payer money.
Now if only those corporations and corporate execs paid a fair share of taxes we could have a real discussion.
| 439 |
b_sharp Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:46:41pm |
My condolences friends.
When the unions disappear so do left wing political donations.
Prepare for decades of Republican domination.
| 440 |
jaunte Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:46:59pm |
re: #437 jaunte
One corporate executive can't buy as much stuff as 500 public employees.
There are only so many Hitler paintings.
| 441 |
HappyWarrior Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:47:28pm |
re: #439 b_sharp
My condolences friends.
When the unions disappear so do left wing political donations.
Prepare for decades of Republican domination.
Unions have been declining in this country for a while now. Thanks Ronnie.
| 442 |
Gus Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:47:42pm |
re: #439 b_sharp
My condolences friends.
When the unions disappear so do left wing political donations.
Prepare for decades of Republican domination.
Welcome to the US of Citizen's United Amreica.
| 443 |
Targetpractice Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:47:46pm |
re: #427 HappyWarrior
Ah I didn't see that. I can see why people would have a problem with the recall honestly. But voting for Walker because of it? Agh.
Walker and Republicans have been pushing the bit these last few weeks that poor job growth in Wisconsin is do solely to "uncertainty" bred by the recall, that companies weren't adding jobs because they didn't know if Walker would still be in office after today. And Barrett, in a supreme moment of stupidity, has spent a good part of the time since his nomination blaming Walker for this recall and unknowingly helping stoke the arguments that it was a waste of money and time.
| 444 |
Interesting Times Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:47:46pm |
re: #432 brandoncraig
But with corporate executives, it is private money.
Yes, like 72 BILLION in fossil fuel subsidies! Oh wait...
| 445 |
JamesWI Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:47:49pm |
Hey, we don't need public unions! We can just trust the government to pay its employees fair wages and benefits, among other things!
. . . say the people who claim to not trust the government in any way.
| 446 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:48:09pm |
re: #440 jaunte
There are only so many Hitler paintings.
But the flea markets are full of Iron Crosses and SS daggers.
| 447 |
Tigger2 Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:48:25pm |
re: #432 brandoncraig
But with corporate executives, it is private money. With public employees, it is tax payer money.
With all the Corporations getting Government subsides how do you know that.
| 448 |
Kragar Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:48:40pm |
re: #420 HappyWarrior
People bitch about unions yet have no problem with corporate executives paying themselves 8 figure salaries while laying employees off. It's such a strange mentality.
You mean like Meg Whitman's little stunt?
Last year:
Meg Whitman's $1 salary at Hewlett-Packard isn't the whole story
As part of her compensation package, Whitman was also awarded options to buy nearly 2 million shares of HP stock at $23.59, close to Friday's opening price, which eventually could bring her a windfall of tens of millions of dollars if HP's stock price rises. But as with many executive-level packages, the options won't vest immediately: Whitman won't be able to cash in at least 900,000 of them until a year from now.
HP Layoffs: Company To Cut 27,000 Jobs To Save Up To $3.5 Billion Annually
Stock prices are expected to get a nice bump out of the layoffs.
| 449 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:48:41pm |
re: #437 jaunte
One corporate executive can't buy as much stuff as 500 public employees.
That is yet another math argument that rank and file right wingers are incapable of following. Its totally true of course, just incomprehensible to the GOP rank and file. The GOP leadership knows that math very well and likes it just fine. They are also working to fix that "discrepancy."
Soon 500 employees won't be able to buy squat.
| 450 |
rwmofo Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:48:49pm |
re: #439 b_sharp
My condolences friends.
When the unions disappear so do left wing political donations.
Prepare for decades of Republican domination.
Makes ya want to "Dance on the Ceiling!"
| 451 |
elizajane Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:48:50pm |
I'm going to lose my stellar upding record on this one, but here goes.
Public sector unions have put people off by overstepping the boundaries of what makes sense to ordinary people. They developed an attitude of always asking for what was "best" for their members even when it was in no way best for the rest of the community. Think honestly. Do you not know people in your state/county who retired at age 52 from a white-collar job with a 90K/year pension? If not, you don't live in the right neighborhood. And has your child never had a teacher in school who was 100% worthless, even as a babysitter, but whose job was protected by the union?
I'm as much of a Democrat as most Democrats and quite a lot of my friends are actually union organizers. So I'd only say this anonymously on LGF! But there are reasons why "moderate" voters don't actually think it's a crime to go against public-sector unions. Note that 60% of WIsconsin voters said, on exit polls, that they felt that a recall was only appropriate when there had been a crime, and you see what I mean.
The problem is that this union-busting then reverberates into the completely necessary and legitimate functions that unions have served for generations. And that really is a huge problem. But painting the issue as completely clear cut (all unions good, all anti-union actions bad) misses some realities of the current situation.
| 452 |
celticdragon Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:48:56pm |
| 453 |
Ojoe Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:48:59pm |
re: #420 HappyWarrior
Unions can have different phases of their history like any institution. Kudos for basic safety advances in coal mines for instance. Raspberries for featherbedding on the railroads, at one time.
We've had pretty incompetent teachers at our middle school here. I think they were coasting along partially because they knew they had a union behind them.
Oh well.
And the huge disparity between worker and CEO rewards is no good.
| 454 |
Mich-again Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:49:07pm |
re: #432 brandoncraig
But with corporate executives, it is private money. With public employees, it is tax payer money.
And no its not just private money involved in Corporations. Banks are protected by the taxpayers, Corporations whipsaw States for tax breaks, States pay for worker training, States pay for infrastructure investment, There is no such thing as "capitalism" in the true sense outside of maybe the black market in Russia.
| 455 |
freetoken Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:49:11pm |
re: #411 HappyWarrior
I wonder what people actually see in Walker. He seems like no better than a bully to me.
People are afraid.
People are afraid of losing their jobs.
People are afraid of losing their jobs, and are eager to believe that they can get rich.
People are afraid of losing their jobs, and are eager to believe that they can get rich, if only they weren't stopped by their adversaries (whoever they may be.)
For many, many years now the defining characteristic of American politics has been based on social groups, not abstract concepts. Gov. Walker and his rich friends have been very smart in being able to convince the little people that the only hope said little people have in finding security (read: riches) is to let the big boys lead them into the Kingdom of Capitalism, unfettered by such evils like governments and unions.
This has been going on for a very long time. Remember, WI used to be much more industrial, and now it, like so many other of the Great Lakes states, find themselves in a post-Industrial Revolution evolution. I'm afraid the Democratic party machinery appears stuck in the past, unable to adapt to a world where unions are seen as truly evil by the reactionary movement that I trace back to at least the 1950's.
A long, long time ago Wisconsin was a leading progressive state. Those days are past.
| 456 |
Varek Raith Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:49:27pm |
| 457 |
HappyWarrior Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:50:11pm |
re: #453 Ojoe
Unions can have different phases of their history like any institution. Kudos for basic safety advances in coal mines for instance. Raspberries for featherbedding on the railroads, at one time.
We've had pretty incompetent teachers at our middle school here. I think they were coasting along partially because they knew they had a union behind them.
Oh well.
And the huge disparity between worker and CEO rewards is no good.
I am just saying. People bitch about unions and say stupid shit like we would be better off if we never had them. It's as stupid as people who complain about business. Andyes the growing disparity between worker and CEO wages is something that bothers me. And if that makes me a commie, I don't give a shit.
| 458 |
Varek Raith Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:51:16pm |
re: #450 rwmofo
Makes ya want to "Dance on the Ceiling!"
I hope you and all GOPers are prepared for AGW.
Otherwise, you're in deep shit.
;)
| 459 |
Gus Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:51:18pm |
re: #449 LudwigVanQuixote
That is yet another math argument that rank and file right wingers are incapable of following. Its totally true of course, just incomprehensible to the GOP rank and file. The GOP leadership knows that math very well and likes it just fine. They are also working to fix that "discrepancy."
Soon 500 employees won't be able to buy squat.
500 employees if consider part of families would mean selling 500 washing machines and dryers. 500 car sales, 500 iPhones or iPads, 500 pairs of shoes. Etc.
| 460 |
jamesfirecat Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:51:37pm |
re: #442 Gus
Welcome to the US of Citizen's United Amreica.
I believe you mean the UCAS, not that matters since I'm a citizen of Ares Macrotechnology....
| 461 |
HappyWarrior Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:51:51pm |
re: #448 Kragar
You mean like Meg Whitman's little stunt?
Last year:
Meg Whitman's $1 salary at Hewlett-Packard isn't the whole story
HP Layoffs: Company To Cut 27,000 Jobs To Save Up To $3.5 Billion Annually
Stock prices are expected to get a nice bump out of the layoffs.
Yeah that's what I am talking about. People complain about union greed and rarely so much as blink when a corporation does the same thing on a greater scale. They also talk about union thugs and ignore that corporations engage in thuggery too.
| 462 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:51:57pm |
re: #450 rwmofo
Makes ya want to "Dance on the Ceiling!"
Look at Spain from 1939 till Franco's death. You can dance all you want; I'll mourn the death of my nation. Pretty soon my son will be able to go back to Vietnam and live in greater freedom there.
| 463 |
brandoncraig Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:51:57pm |
Your points Mich-again are valid, but I think most people even ones who aren't rich understand that what private companies do with their money is their business and what public companies do with their money is their stockholder's business.
The government's money is everybody's business.
| 464 |
jamesfirecat Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:53:32pm |
re: #463 brandoncraig
Your points Mich-again are valid, but I think most people even ones who aren't rich understand that what private companies do with their money is their business and what public companies do with their money is their stockholder's business.
The government's money is everybody's business.
No, when Private companies spend massive amounts of money to try to get certain people elected, believe me that should be everybody's business.
| 465 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:53:59pm |
re: #462 William Barnett-Lewis
Look at Spain from 1939 till Franco's death. You can dance all you want; I'll mourn the death of my nation. Pretty soon my son will be able to go back to Vietnam and live in greater freedom there.
Don't mourn--organize.
We still have a 50/50 chance of stopping the bastards in November.
| 466 |
b_sharp Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:54:05pm |
re: #432 brandoncraig
But with corporate executives, it is private money. With public employees, it is tax payer money.
Where do you think the corporations get their money?
The same pockets.
They use bullshit and propaganda to peel money from your pocket and give you sugar and salt in return. The government may demand your money but it gives you roads, police, firefighters, teachers, and the military in return.
The return for dollars spent is much better with the government.
| 467 |
Targetpractice Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:54:34pm |
re: #463 brandoncraig
Your points Mich-again are valid, but I think most people even ones who aren't rich understand that what private companies do with their money is their business and what public companies do with their money is their stockholder's business.
The government's money is everybody's business.
Tonight showed that, after Citizen's United, the government's money is the business of the 1%. The rest of us are, at best, an annoyance and at worst a threat.
| 468 |
JeffFX Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:54:39pm |
re: #272 GunstarGreen
While Hitler was a despicable man, to balk at anything and everything about him is silly. He was a man, not a demon.
Demons are imaginary. Hitler is as bad as it really gets.
| 469 |
HappyWarrior Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:55:47pm |
re: #455 freetoken
People are afraid.
People are afraid of losing their jobs.
People are afraid of losing their jobs, and are eager to believe that they can get rich.
People are afraid of losing their jobs, and are eager to believe that they can get rich, if only they weren't stopped by their adversaries (whoever they may be.)
For many, many years now the defining characteristic of American politics has been based on social groups, not abstract concepts. Gov. Walker and his rich friends have been very smart in being able to convince the little people that the only hope said little people have in finding security (read: riches) is to let the big boys lead them into the Kingdom of Capitalism, unfettered by such evils like governments and unions.
This has been going on for a very long time. Remember, WI used to be much more industrial, and now it, like so many other of the Great Lakes states, find themselves in a post-Industrial Revolution evolution. I'm afraid the Democratic party machinery appears stuck in the past, unable to adapt to a world where unions are seen as truly evil by the reactionary movement that I trace back to at least the 1950's.
A long, long time ago Wisconsin was a leading progressive state. Those days are past.
Unions really have never been that big in my own state I must say. Agree the Dems in those states need to adapt to the realities. It just frustrates me to see people act like unions are the devil incarnate and yet look the other way at corporate greed and corruption.
| 470 |
Mich-again Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:55:50pm |
re: #463 brandoncraig
Your points Mich-again are valid, but I think most people even ones who aren't rich understand that what private companies do with their money is their business and what public companies do with their money is their stockholder's business.
The government's money is everybody's business.
When a private company buys politicians so they can have free rein to f* up the environment or rob the taxpayers that's all of our business.
| 472 |
jaunte Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:57:42pm |
re: #469 HappyWarrior
Unions aren't at all big here in Texas, so big builders and political contributors like Bob Perry are free to hire a lot of low-paid immigrant workers (maybe they have papers, maybe they don't).
| 473 |
jamesfirecat Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:58:10pm |
re: #471 rwmofo
I'd save the partying for when Walker gets cleared of the charges he may be facing, unless you think they'll let me still be Governor from jail....
| 474 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:58:14pm |
re: #451 elizajane
I'm going to lose my stellar upding record on this one, but here goes.
Public sector unions have put people off by overstepping the boundaries of what makes sense to ordinary people. They developed an attitude of always asking for what was "best" for their members even when it was in no way best for the rest of the community. Think honestly. Do you not know people in your state/county who retired at age 52 from a white-collar job with a 90K/year pension? If not, you don't live in the right neighborhood. And has your child never had a teacher in school who was 100% worthless, even as a babysitter, but whose job was protected by the union?
I'm as much of a Democrat as most Democrats and quite a lot of my friends are actually union organizers. So I'd only say this anonymously on LGF! But there are reasons why "moderate" voters don't actually think it's a crime to go against public-sector unions. Note that 60% of WIsconsin voters said, on exit polls, that they felt that a recall was only appropriate when there had been a crime, and you see what I mean.
The problem is that this union-busting then reverberates into the completely necessary and legitimate functions that unions have served for generations. And that really is a huge problem. But painting the issue as completely clear cut (all unions good, all anti-union actions bad) misses some realities of the current situation.
Well said.
There are two points I need to add though in some rebuttle.
1. The excesses and sins of big business are vastly larger and vastly worse than the worst excesses of the worst unions. Yes it is true that unions got a nice share of the pie for their workers. It is true that not everything was perfect, but seriously, before unions there was a tiny middle class, child labor, no dignity for workers, a barely living wage and endless hours of work with little share in the profit from their labors. Do you like safety rules for example? Thank unions. The good they do vastly outweighs the bad. And by the way, those teacher unions also keep good teachers from being fired over things like teaching evolution and the real old math as opposed to any of the bizarre new maths.
2. It is also true that the people who dig the coal, forge the steel and build the cars etc... deserve a fair share of the profit. Consider coal miners. They risk their lives and ruin their health so you can have electricity to pontificate on the web. Damn straight they deserve the money they get.
| 475 |
Ojoe Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:58:16pm |
re: #470 Mich-again
What you describe - bribery - is also illegal, thus all of our business, because we the people are sovereign here, and the laws are our laws.
It all comes back to us, and how competent we are as a group.
| 476 |
Varek Raith Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:59:02pm |
re: #471 rwmofo
Treat gays as second class citizens!
Evolution is bad!
AGW is a hoax!
SCIENCE IS EVIL!!!!
You keep on dancing and supporting that shit.
;)
| 477 |
Interesting Times Tue, Jun 5, 2012 7:59:04pm |
re: #471 rwmofo
That's your reaction when visitation rights are taken away from gay couples and money is embezzled from a veteran's charity? Well, whatever jack-off material works for you.
| 480 |
dragonath Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:00:19pm |
re: #243 brandoncraig
There's something about this comment that sticks in my craw.
Never mind the fact Walker raised almost $40 million dollars. Never mind the environment, civil rights, science education, or open government. Never mind the corruption.
No, taxes are more important than that. More important than Wisconsin's enshrined right to an recall election. More important than the future.
I can't think of a better example of what's wrong with America today.
| 481 |
JamesWI Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:00:24pm |
re: #476 Varek Raith
Treat gays as second class citizens!
Evolution is bad!
AGW is a hoax!
SCIENCE IS EVIL!!!You keep on dancing and supporting that shit.
;)
Don't forget "lose more jobs!" "Have the quality of education decline because the good teachers will want to go somewhere where they're protected from the government!"
| 482 |
Mich-again Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:00:47pm |
re: #475 Ojoe
What you describe - bribery - is also illegal, thus all of our business, because we the people are sovereign here, and the laws are our laws.
a $100 Bribe is a crime. But donating millions to your favorite candidate's Super Pac expecting political favors in return is perfectly legal. Not sure why you think I meant bribery.
| 483 |
HappyWarrior Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:01:02pm |
re: #474 LudwigVanQuixote
Well said.
There are two points I need to add though in some rebuttle.
1. The excesses and sins of big business are vastly larger and vastly worse than the worst excesses of the worst unions. Yes it is true that unions got a nice share of the pie for their workers. It is true that not everything was perfect, but seriously, before unions there was a tiny middle class, child labor, no dignity for workers, a barely living wage and endless hours f work with little share in the profit from their labors. Do you like safety rules for example? Thank unions. The good they do vastly outweighs the bad. And by the way, those teacher unions also keep good teachers from being fired over things like teaching evolution and the real old math, not any of the bizarre new maths..
2. It is also true that the people who dig the coal, forge the steel and build the cars etc... deserve a fair share of the profit. Consider coal miners. They risk their lives and ruin their health so you can have electricity to pontificate on the web. Damn straight they deserve the money they get.
Don't have to tell me about point 2- my great grandfathers were miners. If anyone is entitled to the right to organize, it should be coal miners.
| 485 |
b_sharp Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:02:03pm |
re: #467 Targetpractice
Tonight showed that, after Citizen's United, the government's money is the business of the 1%. The rest of us are, at best, an annoyance and at worst a threat.
As I've said for years, unbridled capitalism needs and tends toward a large extremely poorly paid work force.
It works best with a minimal middle class.
| 486 |
Mich-again Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:03:23pm |
I love the GOP logic.
Slash the bloated wages and benefits of teachers and then attract the best and brightest young students to become teachers.
| 487 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:03:24pm |
re: #483 HappyWarrior
Don't have to tell me about point 2- my great grandfathers were miners. If anyone is entitled to the right to organize, it should be coal miners.
Yeah the history of coal in this nation - particularly the horrific things done to miners is terrible.
| 488 |
celticdragon Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:04:16pm |
re: #471 rwmofo
Enjoy your status as a lickspittle bootblack for a man who takes his orders from obscenely wealthy people who feel only cool contempt for you.
| 489 |
HappyWarrior Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:05:28pm |
re: #487 LudwigVanQuixote
Yeah the history of coal in this nation - particularly the horrific things done to miners is terrible.
It amazes me that my one great grandfather did what he was able to do. He was a widower for a few years there in the early 20's and raising 5 kids practically alone after his first wife died. Add on to the fact that he was an immigrant.
| 490 |
Mich-again Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:05:54pm |
The bulk of the rural GOP base are the poor and ignorant who are jealous of the middle class union workers.
| 491 |
celticdragon Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:06:06pm |
re: #486 Mich-again
I love the GOP logic.
Slash the bloated wages and benefits of teachers and then attract the best and brightest young students to become teachers.
They have no intention of attracting good people to become teachers. They intend to privatize the schools and let the lowest bidders figure out who will teach.
| 492 |
Targetpractice Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:06:16pm |
re: #486 Mich-again
I love the GOP logic.
Slash the bloated wages and benefits of teachers and then attract the best and brightest young students to become teachers.
The logic seems to go "Good teachers want to teach because they enjoy teaching, not because the pay is good. Bad teachers are just looking for the easy money made through tenure and union protection. So, do away with the unions, do away with the tenure, and all you'll have left are good teachers who stay because they love to teach."
| 493 |
GunstarGreen Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:07:27pm |
| 494 |
Kragar Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:07:32pm |
re: #490 Mich-again
The bulk of the rural GOP base are the poor and ignorant who are jealous of the middle class union workers.
"We keep praying to Jesus and sending money into the Mega-Churches, but we end up any better off. ITS THOSE DAMN LIBERAL UNIONS BLEEDING US DRY!"
| 495 |
Tigger2 Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:07:44pm |
re: #492 Targetpractice
The logic seems to go "Good teachers want to teach because they enjoy teaching, not because the pay is good. Bad teachers are just looking for the easy money made through tenure and union protection. So, do away with the unions, do away with the tenure, and all you'll have left are good teachers who stay because they love to teach."
Lets see how that works out.
| 496 |
Mich-again Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:07:47pm |
re: #492 Targetpractice
So, do away with the unions, do away with the tenure, and all you'll have left are good teachers who stay because they love to teach."
Unfortunately classes will have to be held in movie theaters.
| 497 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:07:59pm |
re: #485 b_sharp
As I've said for years, unbridled capitalism needs and tends toward a large extremely poorly paid work force.
It works best with a minimal middle class.
Actually, it doesn't. A big middle class, paid appropriately, is the only way the consumption capitalism needs can keep growing. When wages drop, fewer iPads and Chevy's get bought. Long run, profits go down.
Again, look at the ruined economy of Spain under Franco. The companies liked being able to do whatever they pleased but their profits soared once a middle class appeared again after he died.
| 498 |
Prideful, Arrogant Marriage Equality Advocate Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:08:47pm |
re: #384 Obdicut
He isn't a thug Ob. Barfly is just a drunk. LOL.
Probably was at another blog and him and some friends held hands and came over here together to try to get a rise.
| 499 |
HappyWarrior Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:09:12pm |
re: #490 Mich-again
The bulk of the rural GOP base are the poor and ignorant who are jealous of the middle class union workers.
There definitely is resentment at play when it comes to understanding hostility towards unions.
| 500 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:10:39pm |
re: #497 William Barnett-Lewis
Actually, it doesn't. A big middle class, paid appropriately, is the only way the consumption capitalism needs can keep growing. When wages drop, fewer iPads and Chevy's get bought. Long run, profits go down.
Again, look at the ruined economy of Spain under Franco. The companies liked being able to do whatever they pleased but their profits soared once a middle class appeared again after he died.
consumption capitalism is unsustainable, it's a dying model in America
| 501 |
Barflytom Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:11:12pm |
re: #384 Obdicut
Can you explain what makes a teacher-- like my brother Mike-- who spends money out of his own pocket on materials for kids, spends about three hours a day outside of work, uncompensated, coming up with new lesson plans, etc., and goes out of his way to meet with every parent that will see him to talk about their children's education-- a thug?
You remind me a bit of the Spitting Image version of Neil Kinnock (and the real one, come to think of it).
Wisconsin membership in the AFSCME fell from 62,000 to 28,000 in a year, once they were no longer forced to pay "dues" to the union Godfathers.
The equivalent figure for one of the Wisconsin teachers unions was a drop from 17,000 to 11,000.
I didn't say every union member was a thug, but the public sector unions are run by thugs, and for the benefit of thugs.
| 502 |
Buck Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:11:15pm |
re: #474 LudwigVanQuixote
Try and see that this is really about public sector unions. Coal mines and sweatshops have nothing to do with what Walker is doing.
Only the unions and their blind supporters think this is about union busting. It is a laser beam shot at public sector unions.
It is Public unions that are being reigned in. They unfair influence because they try and buy the politicians who are supposed to represent taxpayers. If they are successful, then they effectively sit on both sides of the bargaining table. Those negotiations are actual no bid contracts. The state deals with the public sector union in front of them, there are no choices.
| 503 |
JamesWI Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:11:40pm |
At least it looks like the Heat will lose. So evil hasn't completely triumphed! j/k
| 504 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:11:50pm |
re: #469 HappyWarrior
Unions really have never been that big in my own state I must say. Agree the Dems in those states need to adapt to the realities. It just frustrates me to see people act like unions are the devil incarnate and yet look the other way at corporate greed and corruption.
Amen
| 505 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:12:04pm |
re: #500 rw mofo
consumption capitalism is unsustainable, it's a dying model in America
Yet it's what all those corporations out there are built on. Which dies first?
| 506 |
Tigger2 Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:12:21pm |
re: #500 rw mofo
consumption capitalism is unsustainable, it's a dying model in America
Then America as we know it is dead.
| 507 |
HappyWarrior Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:12:24pm |
Unions are terrible yet the modern right's political saint was a union president.
| 508 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:12:32pm |
re: #505 William Barnett-Lewis
Yet it's what all those corporations out there are built on. Which dies first?
We all go down together :)
| 509 |
Targetpractice Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:12:47pm |
re: #502 Buck
Try and see that this is really about public sector unions. Coal mines and sweatshops have nothing to do with what Walker is doing.
Only the unions and their blind supporters think this is about union busting. It is a laser beam shot at public sector unions.
It is Public unions that are being reigned in. They unfair influence because they try and buy the politicians who are supposed to represent taxpayers. If they are successful, then they effectively sit on both sides of the bargaining table. Those negotiations are actual no bid contracts. The state deals with the public sector union in front of them, there are no choices.
Which is why the unions were able to so badly outspend Walker's campaign that he's barely holding on right now, right?
| 510 |
JamesWI Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:13:28pm |
re: #501 Barflytom
You remind me a bit of the Spitting Image version of Neil Kinnock (and the real one, come to think of it).
Wisconsin membership in the AFSCME fell from 62,000 to 28,000 in a year, once they were no longer forced to pay "dues" to the union Godfathers.
The equivalent figure for one of the Wisconsin teachers unions was a drop from 17,000 to 11,000.I didn't say every union member was a thug, but the public sector unions are run by thugs, and for the benefit of thugs.
So.....when you completely gut the union's ability to be effective, people won't want to pay money to be in the union?
Clearly that means. . . something. Not what you're trying to argue, but it means something!
| 511 |
Buck Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:13:49pm |
re: #509 Targetpractice
Which is why the unions were able to so badly outspend Walker's campaign that he's barely holding on right now, right?
You don't know what the unions really spent. The accounting has not come in yet. You would have to start the day the unions began the recall.
| 512 |
Gus Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:13:53pm |
I was expecting Walker to win after seeing his consistent high polling numbers. He won. I'm not happy about it but what am I going to do. Here in Colorado we have Democratic governor, Hickenlooper. However, the legislature is, who should I put it, still pretty crazy? Anyway. Learn from your mistakes, re-group, and not in that order.
| 513 |
Interesting Times Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:14:11pm |
"A union member who votes for #Walker is like a chicken who votes for Colonel Sanders" @paulbegala on #WIRecall stay tuned for more...— Anderson Cooper 360° (@AC360) June 6, 2012
| 514 |
jaunte Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:15:48pm |
re: #502 Buck
It is Public unions that are being reigned in. They unfair influence because they try and buy the politicians who are supposed to represent taxpayers. If they are successful, then they effectively sit on both sides of the bargaining table.
The only people who should be able to do that are corporations, so that's what they're paying for.
| 515 |
JamesWI Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:16:50pm |
re: #511 Buck
You don't know what the unions really spent. The accounting has not come in yet. You would have to start the day the unions began the recall.
I'd like to know exactly what it is the unions spent on, considering in terms of TV and internet ads I've seen for the past 3+ months, I've seen about 20 pro-Walker ads (the majority coming from out-of-state sources) to every 1 pro-Barrett ad (the majority coming from Barrett himself).
The unions must have been spending tons of money on completely useless shit for them to have spent as much as you seem to be claiming.
Or maybe you're just full of shit because you don't know what you're talking about.
I'm going with the latter.
| 516 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:17:04pm |
re: #506 Tigger2
Then America is dead.
Or at least fractured into smaller pieces with different models for sustainability that are more enlightened
I don't see cheap consumer crap being the engine that drives America for the next hundred years
| 517 |
Buck Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:17:35pm |
re: #514 jaunte
The only people who should be able to do that are corporations, so that's what they're paying for.
That is simply not true. Corporations do not sit on both side of the negotiating table in the same way.
| 518 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:18:17pm |
re: #517 Buck
That is simply not true. Corporations do not sit on both side of the negotiating table in the same way.
where'd you get the talking points from, you've repeated these lines multiple times
| 519 |
jaunte Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:18:49pm |
re: #517 Buck
You're heard of lobbyists, the 'revolving door', K Street?
| 520 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:18:57pm |
re: #502 Buck
Try and see that this is really about public sector unions. Coal mines and sweatshops have nothing to do with what Walker is doing.
Bull. Once the public unions are gone, then comes the Right To WorkExploit law. Then you'll see bans on Union money being used to oppose Corporate money in elections. Eventually unions will be banned. Safety and good working conditions cost too much to be allowed. A clean environment costs too much to be allowed. And so on. The Gospel According to the Club For Decay.
This is all about destroying labor. It is all about installing a corporate run Falangist style fascist economic & social reactionary government in place. If the Talibaptists have their way, it will be explicitly theocratic and the constitution will mean as little as the Soviet one did.
| 521 |
jamesfirecat Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:19:03pm |
re: #517 Buck
That is simply not true. Corporations do not sit on both side of the negotiating table in the same way.
Except when they're getting no bid contracts from the government.
| 522 |
Targetpractice Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:20:06pm |
re: #511 Buck
You don't know what the unions really spent. The accounting has not come in yet. You would have to start the day the unions began the recall.
In a campaign where roughly $62 million has been spent, about half that by Walker...you believe that the unions outspent him?
| 523 |
celticdragon Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:21:24pm |
re: #511 Buck
You don't know what the unions really spent. The accounting has not come in yet. You would have to start the day the unions began the recall.
You are like a perfect fount of truthy "ressentiment".
| 524 |
JamesWI Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:21:37pm |
re: #522 Targetpractice
In a campaign where roughly $62 million has been spent, about half that by Walker...you believe that the unions outspent him?
I just love Canadian wingnuts claiming they know what's REALLY going on in Wisconsin....with zero evidence to back up their ridiculous arguments.
| 525 |
Buck Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:22:16pm |
re: #515 JamesWI
the majority coming from Barrett himself
OK, you really believe that the unions (a lot of out of state) didn't support Barrett with 10s of millions of dollars. I wonder why they abandoned him after setting him up.
This was the unions 3rd try. They spent millions on the protests, millions on gathering up the votes for the recall, and many millions on the the last two recall elections.
The facts will come out.
| 526 |
Gus Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:22:32pm |
The DNC thought that Barrett would lose. That's why they hardly put much effort into it. It was basically 10 to one in spending in Walker's favor.
| 527 |
celticdragon Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:23:06pm |
re: #517 Buck
That is simply not true. Corporations do not sit on both side of the negotiating table in the same way.
I see you have never heard of Dick Cheny and Haliburton.
| 528 |
HappyWarrior Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:23:36pm |
re: #526 Gus
The DNC thought that Barrett would lose. That's why they hardly put much effort into it. It was basically 10 to one in spending in Walker's favor.
Agree with that. It's obvious Walker had a big edge in finances and hell I bet his campaign if you asked them would probably not only acknowledge that fact but brag about it.
| 529 |
Achilles Tang Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:23:37pm |
re: #485 b_sharp
As I've said for years, unbridled capitalism needs and tends toward a large extremely poorly paid work force.
It works best with a minimal middle class.
It may tend that way, unbridled, but it doesn't work best that way.
I always think, and I'm no economist, that capitalism does work to find the best solution. The only problem is that it may take more than a generation to find that solution, unbridled, without the benefit of sentient guidance, and that solution will itself be temporary until the next one arrives a generation or more later.
In short, people who say "let the market decide", might as well say, "let God decide, I don't want to be responsible".
| 530 |
Targetpractice Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:24:25pm |
re: #520 William Barnett-Lewis
Bull. Once the public unions are gone, then comes the Right To
WorkExploit law. Then you'll see bans on Union money being used to oppose Corporate money in elections. Eventually unions will be banned. Safety and good working conditions cost too much to be allowed. A clean environment costs too much to be allowed. And so on. The Gospel According to the Club For Decay.This is all about destroying labor. It is all about installing a corporate run Falangist style fascist economic & social reactionary government in place. If the Talibaptists have their way, it will be explicitly theocratic and the constitution will mean as little as the Soviet one did.
The question came up to Walker more than once whether he'd sign off on a bill to make Wisconsin a Right to Work state. His response was to dodge the issue, saying he wouldn't commenting on a "hypothetical." Why? Because he didn't think the bill would pass, so he couldn't say whether he'd sign it or veto it.
| 531 |
Buck Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:25:26pm |
re: #521 jamesfirecat
Except when they're getting no bid contracts from the government.
FIGHT THAT WHEN IT HAPPENS!!!!
I will join you. What I describe is actually happening.
| 532 |
Mich-again Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:25:48pm |
Like I've said before, Right to Work relies on the same logic as Anti-Vax.
| 533 |
celticdragon Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:26:00pm |
re: #526 Gus
The DNC thought that Barrett would lose. That's why they hardly put much effort into it. It was basically 10 to one in spending in Walker's favor.
Yeah. The folks at Balloon Juice were really going off about how Debbie Wasserman-Schultz had written off Wisconsin last week. I tend to think that she was perfectly happy to let the opposition sink 40 million into the race while she saved the DNC cash for the big prize, but that is speculation on my part.
| 534 |
Gus Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:26:23pm |
re: #528 HappyWarrior
Agree with that. It's obvious Walker had a big edge in finances and hell I bet his campaign if you asked them would probably not only acknowledge that fact but brag about it.
Look at it this way too. Who was the most "fiscally conservative" with their election? It was the Democrats. They got more votes per dollar in the end. ;)
| 535 |
Interesting Times Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:27:12pm |
Look at us, they have us envying each others measly pension plans & health benefits while they set the world on fire. #Unite #PlutoCrazy— Path2Enlightenment (@Path2Enlighten) June 6, 2012
| 536 |
HappyWarrior Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:27:19pm |
re: #534 Gus
Look at it this way too. Who was the most "fiscally conservative" with their election? It was the Democrats. They got more votes per dollar in the end. ;)
Ha true. But I already knew that the Republicans were bigger spenders than they like to claim especially in light of the fact that historically they tend to spend more on elections than Democrats do. Always exceptions of course but as a rule.
| 537 |
celticdragon Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:27:56pm |
re: #531 Buck
FIGHT THAT WHEN IT HAPPENS!!!
I will join you. What I describe is actually happening.
Hey genius...
We are trying to fight it.
In case you hadn't noticed.
| 538 |
Gus Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:28:24pm |
You want to sell on national security? Foreign policy? Then start thinking "Obama needs 4 more years to finish Afghanistan." As a talking point.re: #536 HappyWarrior
Ha true. But I already knew that the Republicans were bigger spenders than they like to claim especially in light of the fact that historically they tend to spend more on elections than Democrats do. Always exceptions of course but as a rule.
Obama might still hold the record.
| 539 |
JamesWI Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:28:42pm |
One lovely ad that I've probably seen about 5 times a day for the past 2 or 3 months came courtesy of the NRA.....it shows a man in hunting gear with a hunting rifle with the announcer saying "These are your Second Amendment rights..."(rifle disappears)"These are your Second Amendment rights if Tom Barrett is elected Governor."
Yeah...the Governor....of WISCONSIN...is going to outlaw HUNTING rifles...
Funny. I don't remember seeing all those corresponding ads from the unions who are supposedly spending even more money!
But Buck says it's so, so clearly, they must have spent all that money on....something or other!
| 540 |
Targetpractice Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:28:49pm |
re: #533 celticdragon
Yeah. The folks at Balloon Juice were really going off about how Debbie Wasserman-Schultz had written off Wisconsin last week. I tend to think that she was perfectly happy to let the opposition sink 40 million into the race while she saved the DNC cash for the big prize, but that is speculation on my part.
Pierce was weighing on that last week as well, noting that the National Democrats basically abandoned the race as "inconsequential" awhile back. That state Democrats were begging for funds for outreach and voter drives, but were getting static in return.
| 541 |
Buck Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:29:13pm |
re: #522 Targetpractice
In a campaign where roughly $62 million has been spent, about half that by Walker...you believe that the unions outspent him?
About half of that by Walker? Not 80% by Walker? Are you sure?
| 542 |
Buck Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:30:42pm |
re: #537 celticdragon
Hey genius...
We are trying to fight it.
In case you hadn't noticed.
It hasn't happened yet. You are fighting a ghost. Shadow boxing.
| 543 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:30:47pm |
re: #530 Targetpractice
The question came up to Walker more than once whether he'd sign off on a bill to make Wisconsin a Right to Work state. His response was to dodge the issue, saying he wouldn't commenting on a "hypothetical." Why? Because he didn't think the bill would pass, so he couldn't say whether he'd sign it or veto it.
I'll bet money right now that it's the first thing they pass in the next session.
| 544 |
Targetpractice Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:30:51pm |
re: #541 Buck
About half of that by Walker? Not 80% by Walker? Are you sure?
How sure are you that the unions outspent Walker?
| 545 |
HappyWarrior Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:30:54pm |
re: #538 Gus
You want to sell on national security? Foreign policy? Then start thinking "Obama needs 4 more years to finish Afghanistan." As a talking point.
Obama might still hold the record.
Yeah I think he does. He was a rare national democratic candidate that spent more than his republican opponent. I know Bush outspent both Kerry and Gore. Not sure about Bush I and Dole against Clinton though.
| 546 |
Buck Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:31:15pm |
re: #544 Targetpractice
How sure are you that the unions outspent Walker?
I don't think I said that.
| 547 |
celticdragon Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:31:48pm |
re: #541 Buck
About half of that by Walker? Not 80% by Walker? Are you sure?
Money spent by pro Walker PAC's is not money technically spent by Walker. Any other questions?
| 548 |
Gus Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:32:16pm |
re: #545 HappyWarrior
Yeah I think he does. He was a rare national democratic candidate that spent more than his republican opponent. I know Bush outspent both Kerry and Gore. Not sure about Bush I and Dole against Clinton though.
Overall it's growing exponentially.
| 549 |
brandoncraig Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:32:28pm |
According to the Associated Press June 5, 2012:
"The recall election has been unlike anything seen before in Wisconsin, with at least $62 million spent by the candidates and outside groups so far. Walker was the top spender at $29 million, with Democrats including Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett spending about $4 million. Outside groups have spent $21 million and issue ad groups that don't have to disclose their spending have put in at least $7.5 million. That, of course, is donated money. Taxpayers are anything but off the hook. The recall and a primary for it are special elections that otherwise would not be held. State elections officials estimate the cost of a statewide election to taxpayers is $9 million, for a total of $18 million."
| 550 |
Targetpractice Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:32:32pm |
| 551 |
HappyWarrior Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:32:36pm |
| 552 |
Buck Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:32:53pm |
re: #547 celticdragon
Money spent by pro Walker PAC's is not money technically spent by Walker. Any other questions?
and money spent by the unions are not spent by Barrett. I get it.
| 553 |
Interesting Times Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:33:26pm |
Holy mother of god, someone is seriously stupid enough to deny the existence of no-bid contracts?
MacNamara negotiated the contract with Mattson in February 2011 when he worked for Senate President Mike Haridopolos. He left the Senate to become Gov. Rick Scott's chief of staff in July. To date, Mattson has been paid $5 million for development of the no-bid project.
| 554 |
Buck Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:34:31pm |
re: #553 Interesting Times
Holy mother of god, someone is seriously stupid enough to deny the existence of no-bid contracts?
Is Gov. Rick Scott's name pronounced Walker, or am I missing something?
| 555 |
Buck Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:35:30pm |
re: #549 brandoncraig
Outside groups have spent $21 million and issue ad groups that don't have to disclose their spending have put in at least $7.5 million
And how much of that was Unions?
| 556 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:36:22pm |
re: #539 JamesWI
One lovely ad that I've probably seen about 5 times a day for the past 2 or 3 months came courtesy of the NRA...it shows a man in hunting gear with a hunting rifle with the announcer saying "These are your Second Amendment rights..."(rifle disappears)"These are your Second Amendment rights if Tom Barrett is elected Governor."
Yeah...the Governor...of WISCONSIN...is going to outlaw HUNTING rifles...
Funny. I don't remember seeing all those corresponding ads from the unions who are supposedly spending even more money!
But Buck says it's so, so clearly, they must have spent all that money on...something or other!
Yep, anti-gun Democratic candidates are political poison. The literal truth of the ad is unimportant - it's what rural voters expect from urban Dems and that fear is even greater than job fears. The CCW law passed last year is extremely popular as well.
Holder is going to cost Obama the election in November as well even though the basics of Fast & Furious lie in the Bush era.
| 557 |
JamesWI Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:36:31pm |
re: #552 Buck
and money spent by the unions are not spent by Barrett. I get it.
You clearly don't get it.
Going with Brandoncraig's numbers up there:
28 million from Walker
4 million from Barrett
28+ million from outside groups.
As someone who actually lives in this state, and has seen what has happened in this campaign first-hand, I'd be willing to wager that at least $20 million of that $28 million in outside money was in the pro-Walker category. And that probably is on the low end.
| 558 |
jaunte Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:37:35pm |
re: #553 Interesting Times
Someone has a no-bid contract on wheeled goalposts.
| 559 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:37:57pm |
Well, I was out to eat when the returns started coming, so my getting to politico.com gave me a pleasant surprise. Right now it has Walker winning by 9+% with more than 83% of ballots counted. I'm somewhat surprised, but very grateful for the level of victory.
I know most people here don't share my assessment, but I 'm glad Gov. Walker notched the win tonight.
| 560 |
Buck Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:38:11pm |
re: #550 Targetpractice
And I didn't say 80% was spent by Walker.
And I wasn't referring to what you said when I asked that.
Walker $ 45 million.
Barret $ 9 million.
Is the numbers being put out BY OTHERS, the people I was referring to.
| 561 |
Targetpractice Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:38:58pm |
re: #554 Buck
Is Gov. Rick Scott's name pronounced Walker, or am I missing something?
Here Buck, I'll save you some time:
Walker approved $250,000 no-bid
contract to campaign donor, AP reports
Major Walker contributor got no-bid contract
And here's one even connected to events of the past year:
In Budget Bill, Wisconsin Gov. Walker Pushing for No-Bid Sales of State-Owned Power Plants
| 562 |
celticdragon Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:39:01pm |
re: #542 Buck
It hasn't happened yet. You are fighting a ghost. Shadow boxing.
Perhaps lost in the Wisconsin shuffle is the story of what exactly is happening in Michigan. Newly elected Republican governor, Rick Snyder, is set to pass one of the most sweeping, anti-democratic pieces of legislation in the country – and almost no one is talking about it.
Snyder’s law gives the state government the power not only to break up unions, but to dissolve entire local governments and place appointed “Emergency Managers” in their stead. But that’s not all – whole cities could be eliminated if Emergency Managers and the governor choose to do so. And Snyder can fire elected officials unilaterally, without any input from voters. It doesn’t get much more anti-Democratic than that.
Except it does. The governor simply has to declare a financial emergency to invoke these powers – or he can hire a private company to declare financial emergency and take over oversight of the city. That’s right, a private corporation can declare your city in a state of financial emergency and send in its Emergency Manager, fire your elected officials, and reap the benefits of the ensuing state contracts.
But, but...did he really do that?
Benton Harbor, Michigan's city government was shut down yesterday by the state Emergency Financial Manager. Elected officials in that city are now limited to calling a meeting, adjourning a meeting, and approving minutes of a meeting. Beyond that, they can do nothing.
Eclectablog:
This is a complete disenfranchisement of an entire community, an entire large city in my state. The voters are now denied the ability to be governed by the people they elected in a democratic election.
This is nothing short of an abridgment of democracy in raw form.
I will have more as this develops. I can only assume a lawsuit will be forthcoming. The news is so fresh it has not yet hit the major news outlets.
[...]
Interesting statistic: Benton Harbor is 92.4% African American with an annual median household income of $17,471 with 42.6% of the population below the poverty line. St. Joseph, the next city south of Benton Harbor on the shores of Lake Michigan and just on the other side of the Paw Paw River is 90.3% white with an annual median household income of $37,032.
All of Detroit's public school teachers were told they would receive layoff notices yesterday, along with the 250 school administrators.Detroit Free Press:
"I fully intend to use the authority that was granted," Bobb said, referring to a new law that gives emergency managers the authority to modify -- or terminate -- collective bargaining agreements. It was the first time Bobb had publicly indicated he intends to use the expanded authority.
So there is your no bid corporate con on, Bucky Boy, me lad, me chum, me boyo.
| 563 |
Buck Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:39:36pm |
re: #557 JamesWI
I'd be willing to wager that at least $20 million of that $28 million in outside money was in the pro-Walker category. And that probably is on the low end.
And I think I will wait for a better source that those OOYA figures.
| 564 |
Obdicut Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:40:05pm |
re: #559 Dark_Falcon
I know most people here don't share my assessment, but I 'm glad Gov. Walker notched the win tonight.
Are you glad he's going to ban visitation rights for gay couples in hospitals? So that loved ones won't be able to comfort each other in their dying moments?
| 565 |
Mich-again Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:40:23pm |
re: #559 Dark_Falcon
I know most people here don't share my assessment, but I 'm glad Gov. Walker notched the win tonight.
Yes it will make the eventual indictment so much sweeter. ha.
| 566 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:40:35pm |
re: #554 Buck
Is Gov. Rick Scott's name pronounced Walker, or am I missing something?
We're talking about Walker mostly, but IT (PS) didn't mention Scott Walker once in that post. As such it should be considered a post aimed at Rick Scott, not Scott Walker, and as such not in error.
| 567 |
HappyWarrior Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:40:46pm |
re: #564 Obdicut
Are you glad he's going to ban visitation rights for gay couples in hospitals? So that loved ones won't be able to comfort each other in their dying moment?
"Fiscal responsibility." I think reading that fact about Walker annoyed me the most really.
| 568 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:41:11pm |
re: #559 Dark_Falcon
Well, I was out to eat when the returns started coming, so my getting to politico.com gave me a pleasant surprise. Right now it has Walker winning by 9+% with more than 83% of ballots counted. I'm somewhat surprised, but very grateful for the level of victory.
I know most people here don't share my assessment, but I 'm glad Gov. Walker notched the win tonight.
Welcome to Spain 1936. Don't worry about your freedom, you won't need it anymore. The governor will tell you what to think, what to do and who you can do it with. No questions are allowed.
| 569 |
JamesWI Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:41:27pm |
re: #563 Buck
And I think I will wait for a better source that those OOYA figures.
I have first-hand knowledge. You have idiotic comments like "The facts will come out."
| 570 |
Gus Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:42:00pm |
So basically you get to choose between a moderate Democrat or a Tea Party crazy Republican.
| 571 |
Buck Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:42:22pm |
re: #561 Targetpractice
from your link:
But it's not as if Walker is the only beneficiary of Graef's campaign largess. The firm likes incumbents on both sides of the aisle.
Over the years, Democratic Gov. Jim Doyle has received more than $40,000 in political donations from Graef employees, who have received a variety of contracts from the state. Graef officials did not return calls last week.
Executives with the engineering outfit also have begun taking notice of Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett, the all-but-certain Democratic nominee in this fall's governor's race, giving his campaign about $4,000.
| 572 |
Interesting Times Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:43:37pm |
re: #566 Dark_Falcon
We're talking about Walker mostly, but IT (PS) didn't mention Scott Walker once in that post. As such it should be considered a post aimed at Rick Scott, not Scott Walker, and as such not in error.
It was a post aimed at his breathtakingly dishonest and stupid assertion that no-bid contracts never happen. He can generalize about public sector unions as much as he merry well wants, but the minute someone brings up a factual example of corporate abuse via non-bid contracts, we get:
Durr hurr, that wasn't Walker specifically! Derp.
Goalposts transiting from one end of the sun to the other.
| 573 |
Buck Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:43:50pm |
re: #569 JamesWI
I have first-hand knowledge. You have idiotic comments like "The facts will come out."
you have your feelings. You don't have first hand knowledge.
And yes, seems that waiting for that facts is considered idiotic to you. I get that message.
| 574 |
brandoncraig Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:44:05pm |
It was actually last year that Gov. Walker tried to ban hospital visitation rights for gay partners. His proposal was rightfully defeated and I doubt he will try that one again.
| 575 |
Targetpractice Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:45:02pm |
re: #571 Buck
from your link:
So you only oppose no-bids when the folks issuing them are the singular beneficiary?
| 576 |
Buck Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:45:10pm |
re: #572 Interesting Times
his breathtakingly dishonest and stupid assertion that no-bid contracts never happen.
I didn't say that. I said fight that when it actually happens.
| 577 |
dragonath Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:45:30pm |
re: #539 JamesWI
The NRA is useless. Walker's appointee for "deer trustee" called state game lands "the last bastion of communism". I bet he's a big fan of deer farms.
Chronic Wasting Disease was probably caused by people like this.
| 578 |
celticdragon Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:46:05pm |
I want a frakking answer, Buck.
What is your stand on no bid corporate take overs of entire muncipalities? Do you support the ability of a Republican governor to unilaterally fire any elected official at any level in his state and appoint his cronies to take over a city and get tax money?
Let's hear it, Buck. Let's hear your rationalization for murdering democracy and literally turning the rule of law over to a corporation appointed by the governor.
| 579 |
Gus Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:46:06pm |
We should all come together at the table and negotiate as equals.
| 580 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:46:24pm |
re: #568 William Barnett-Lewis
Welcome to Spain 1936. Don't worry about your freedom, you won't need it anymore. The governor will tell you what to think, what to do and who you can do it with. No questions are allowed.
I really do think you're being far too hyperbolic, I really do.
Although when you think about it, being compared to Franco's followers would blow the minds of any Gellerites: Many of Franco's early soldiers were Muslim Berbers from the Rif region of Morocco. Franco would would have been unable to win without the skill of tens of thousands of Muslim troops.
| 581 |
JamesWI Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:46:24pm |
re: #573 Buck
you have your feelings. You don't have first hand knowledge.
And yes, seems that waiting for that facts is considered idiotic to you. I get that message.
And tell me, where are your "feelings" that the unions clearly spent so much money coming from, if not completely out of your ass?
Considering I've been the target of these campaigns, my knowledge is first-hand. And the simple fact of the matter is, Walker and his pro-Walker groups easily outspent the Barrett and unions.
But you need to talk about the evil unions spending so much money, without ANY facts to back it up. And now you're pretending that you're the one who is interested in the facts? Jesus fucking Christ, you have no shame.
| 582 |
Interesting Times Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:46:36pm |
Just curious: Are RWers singing "These Boots Are Made For Walking" right now? & is Walker wearing sexy black boots? The big, shiny kind?— JeffSharlet (@JeffSharlet) June 6, 2012
| 583 |
celticdragon Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:46:58pm |
re: #574 brandoncraig
It was actually last year that Gov. Walker tried to ban hospital visitation rights for gay partners. His proposal was rightfully defeated and I doubt he will try that one again.
He is doing it right now.
| 584 |
Mich-again Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:47:07pm |
re: #562 celticdragon
Snyder already killed the teacher's unions here. They have no collective bargaining, no seniority rights, no job preferencing, he reduced salaries across the board, reduced health care coverage across the board, etc. Funny thing though, he left the school service employees out of all the cuts.
So now, my wife, the 20 year teaching veteran with a masters degree costs the school district less than her unionized janitor. Snyder aimed all those cuts specifically at teachers. At least Scott Walker included allthe public unions in his cuts and didn't single out the one public union with a majority of women.
| 585 |
jaunte Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:47:53pm |
re: #579 Gus
We should all come together at the table and negotiate as equals.
I told Exxon time and time again I wasn't going to put up with that refinery smell at 3:00 am.
| 586 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:47:58pm |
re: #577 Be Zorch, Daddio
The NRA is useless. Walker's appointee for "deer trustee" called state game lands "the last bastion of communism". I bet he's a big fan of deer farms.
Chronic Wasting Disease was probably caused by people like this.
Well. we have lots of idiots how don't want the pretty deer to starve in the harsh winter and feed them way beyond the land's carrying capacity. And God forbid we reintroduce predators to keep the herd healthy... fools.
| 587 |
celticdragon Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:49:08pm |
re: #582 Interesting Times
[Embedded content]
Since Walker is a Koch sucking whore, thigh high shiny boots seem appropriate.
| 588 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:49:12pm |
re: #577 Be Zorch, Daddio
The NRA is useless. Walker's appointee for "deer trustee" called state game lands "the last bastion of communism". I bet he's a big fan of deer farms.
Chronic Wasting Disease was probably caused by people like this.
It's not all clear how prion-based diseases evolve, actually. because prions are just protein fragments, how such diseases come into being is still something of a mystery.
| 589 |
Gus Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:49:59pm |
re: #585 jaunte
I told Exxon time and time again I wasn't going to put up with that refinery smell at 3:00 am.
Yep. They'll stone you when you're riding in your car.
| 590 |
palomino Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:51:45pm |
re: #502 Buck
Try and see that this is really about public sector unions. Coal mines and sweatshops have nothing to do with what Walker is doing.
Only the unions and their blind supporters think this is about union busting. It is a laser beam shot at public sector unions.
It is Public unions that are being reigned in. They unfair influence because they try and buy the politicians who are supposed to represent taxpayers. If they are successful, then they effectively sit on both sides of the bargaining table. Those negotiations are actual no bid contracts. The state deals with the public sector union in front of them, there are no choices.
If it's such a fucking great idea, why didn't Walker mention it during the 2010 campaign?
| 591 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:53:07pm |
re: #580 Dark_Falcon
I really do think you're being far too hyperbolic, I really do.
Although when you think about it, being compared to Franco's followers would blow the minds of any Gellerites: Many of Franco's early soldiers were Muslim Berbers from the Rif region of Morocco. Franco would would have been unable to win without the skill of tens of thousands of Muslim troops.
At this point, it is still. Soon? I'm not too sure. As I mentioned above, Santorum ran on Falangism. Walker's policies, in practice, are as well though he refuses to say so out loud. That's bad enough: I just pray we can avoid the civil war and the "disappearances" afterwards.
| 592 |
celticdragon Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:53:26pm |
re: #588 Dark_Falcon
It's not all clear how prion-based diseases evolve, actually. because prions are just protein fragments, how such diseases come into being is still something of a mystery.
The asshole that Walker appointed wants "market based" pricing of deer tags, meaning that if you bag an 8 point buck you can expectg to pay about 3,000 dollars based on what you would pay at a private game reserve. The shithead actually had the nerve to say that hunters who couldn't afford those prices could still hunt rabbits.
| 593 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:53:50pm |
re: #586 William Barnett-Lewis
Well. we have lots of idiots how don't want the pretty deer to starve in the harsh winter and feed them way beyond the land's carrying capacity. And God forbid we reintroduce predators to keep the herd healthy... fools.
On that one, I'm with you. Though I do understand why people don't want to share their woods with coyotes and cougars. Large predators make a walk in the woods a good bit more scary. Nothing for it, though; Deer numbers cannot exceed the carrying capacity of the land or you get mass die-offs. The deer can be shot to reduce their numbers or they can be killed by other means, including by predators. Those who cannot accept this simply repeat TR's folly on the Kaibab Plateau a century ago.
| 594 |
celticdragon Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:54:32pm |
re: #584 Mich-again
Snyder already killed the teacher's unions here. They have no collective bargaining, no seniority rights, no job preferencing, he reduced salaries across the board, reduced health care coverage across the board, etc. Funny thing though, he left the school service employees out of all the cuts.
So now, my wife, the 20 year teaching veteran with a masters degree costs the school district less than her unionized janitor. Snyder aimed all those cuts specifically at teachers. At least Scott Walker included allthe public unions in his cuts and didn't single out the one public union with a majority of women.
I can't say how sorry I am.
| 595 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:55:17pm |
re: #592 celticdragon
The asshole that Walker appointed wants "market based" pricing of deer tags, meaning that if you bag an 8 point buck you can expectg to pay about 3,000 dollars based on what you would pay at a private game reserve. The shithead actually had the nerve to say that hunters who couldn't afford those prices could still hunt rabbits.
I wasn't talking about that, only about prions. I know nothing of the details of hunting.
| 596 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:58:24pm |
re: #592 celticdragon
The asshole that Walker appointed wants "market based" pricing of deer tags, meaning that if you bag an 8 point buck you can expectg to pay about 3,000 dollars based on what you would pay at a private game reserve. The shithead actually had the nerve to say that hunters who couldn't afford those prices could still hunt rabbits.
Lot's of folks up north still count on that deer meat to make ends meet. But the Democratic Party, in it's ignorance of tradition, hunting & guns, didn't use that issue. They should have hammered it like a spike into a vampire's chest.
| 597 |
Mich-again Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:58:26pm |
re: #594 celticdragon
For teachers about a 30% pay cut so far, in one year. Janitors, bus drivers, cafeteria ladies, (all union employees in her district) 0% pay cut.
That is Rick Snyder and the Tea Party's plan to revitalize education here.
| 598 |
palomino Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:59:11pm |
What a great day for democracy. What else can you call it when a guy raises 10 times as much money and then, voila, wins the election? Those pussy teachers and other union members just don't have the income to match up to billionaire out-of-state contributors, and therefore they deserve to lose.
It's the American way, and it's more fucked up than the electoral process in nearly every other developed nation. So funny and sad that Americans have deluded themselves into thinking "We're number 1" in everything, when in fact we're near the bottom of the Western barrel in so many ways.
| 600 |
dragonath Tue, Jun 5, 2012 8:59:26pm |
re: #588 Dark_Falcon
CWD has been found on deer farms in Wisconsin. If you do some googling you'll find fun things like this:
Officials Monitor Farm
Hirschboeck's farm came under scrutiny by the DNR after it was discovered that he bought deer from another Walworth County deer farm that is suspected to have sold a deer to a third farm in Portage County that later tested positive for the disease. That buck, sold to deer farmer Stan Hall, tested positive for the disease in September.
Oh, and about those Deer Farm operators...
March 19, 2003 Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel (Wisconsin) by Lee Bergquist lbergquist@journalsentinel.com
A state inspection of private deer farms, prompted by the discovery of chronic wasting disease, found that 436 white-tailed deer escaped into the wild, officials said Tuesday. The Department of Natural Resources found that captive deer have escaped from one-third of the state's 550 deer farms over the lifetime of the operations. The agency also uncovered hundreds of violations and has sought a total of 60 citations or charges against deer farm operators.
Great.
| 601 |
Gus Tue, Jun 5, 2012 9:00:03pm |
re: #596 William Barnett-Lewis
Lot's of folks up north still count on that deer meat to make ends meet. But the Democratic Party, in it's ignorance of tradition, hunting & guns, didn't use that issue. They should have hammered it like a spike into a vampire's chest.
Like eggs to breakfast.
| 602 |
palomino Tue, Jun 5, 2012 9:01:53pm |
re: #592 celticdragon
The asshole that Walker appointed wants "market based" pricing of deer tags, meaning that if you bag an 8 point buck you can expectg to pay about 3,000 dollars based on what you would pay at a private game reserve. The shithead actually had the nerve to say that hunters who couldn't afford those prices could still hunt rabbits.
Trickle down hunting.
The American way, brought to you by reactionaries and their robots (eg, the Mitt1947).
| 603 |
freetoken Tue, Jun 5, 2012 9:02:38pm |
re: #598 palomino
However, running an election less than two years after the previous, running the exact same candidates 18 months later, and then having the results come out very close to the previous percentages is hardly surprising.
This is again why I am whining about the Democratic party. If Barrett lost last time by a 5% margin, why would one expect this same person to win only 18 months later?
| 604 |
Amory Blaine Tue, Jun 5, 2012 9:03:59pm |
Well, at least the decades of blame for the teachers union is over. Wingnuts do realize that the teachers unions are basically dead in WI now? They will have to find a new boogieman.
| 605 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Jun 5, 2012 9:04:12pm |
re: #596 William Barnett-Lewis
Lot's of folks up north still count on that deer meat to make ends meet. But the Democratic Party, in it's ignorance of tradition, hunting & guns, didn't use that issue. They should have hammered it like a spike into a vampire's chest.
To some extent, it's about where people live. It's often said that rural or suburban Republicans in states like Illinois and Wisconsin are ignorant of the concerns of those living in urban centers. There is great truth in that, but there is also some truth in the reverse: Urban/Suburban Democrats are often ignorant of the concerns of rural voters.
Mostly, this due to the fact that urban voters are normally a solid Democrat constituency and rural voter are a solid Republican constituency. Neither party tends to go after the other's core voters most of the time, so often neither can see a chance to do so when one arises, because they are not looking for one and even if they saw it they are not prepared to take advantage.
| 606 |
Targetpractice Tue, Jun 5, 2012 9:04:46pm |
re: #603 freetoken
However, running an election less than two years after the previous, running the exact same candidates 18 months later, and then having the results come out very close to the previous percentages is hardly surprising.
This is again why I am whining about the Democratic party. If Barrett lost last time by a 5% margin, why would one expect this same person to win only 18 months later?
Because they thought it too risky to support the union-supported candidate. Better to go with the guy who's at the podium, declaring proudly that he'll ignore the unions if he chooses.
| 607 |
palomino Tue, Jun 5, 2012 9:05:41pm |
re: #603 freetoken
However, running an election less than two years after the previous, running the exact same candidates 18 months later, and then having the results come out very close to the previous percentages is hardly surprising.
This is again why I am whining about the Democratic party. If Barrett lost last time by a 5% margin, why would one expect this same person to win only 18 months later?
Good point, Dems probably should have tried a different candidate, though you'd think the mayor of the state's largest city would be a solid choice. Maybe millions of extra dollars wouldn't have won the election for Barrett, but it couldn't have hurt. But when our elections become fundraising contests above all else, we no longer have what we used to think of as democracy.
| 608 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Jun 5, 2012 9:05:45pm |
re: #600 Be Zorch, Daddio
CWD has been found on deer farms in Wisconsin. If you do some googling you'll find fun things like this:
Oh, and about those Deer Farm operators...
Great.
Have things improved since 2003?
| 609 |
Targetpractice Tue, Jun 5, 2012 9:06:05pm |
re: #604 Amory Blaine
Well, at least the decades of blame for the teachers union is over. Wingnuts do realize that the teachers unions are basically dead in WI now? They will have to find a new boogieman.
You're rather optimistic tonight.
| 610 |
JamesWI Tue, Jun 5, 2012 9:06:13pm |
re: #604 Amory Blaine
Well, at least the decades of blame for the teachers union is over. Wingnuts do realize that the teachers unions are basically dead in WI now? They will have to find a new boogieman.
Seeing how a certain Canadian wingnut has continued in his "UNIONS UGABOOGAH!" act, I'm sure they'll find a way to continue to blame everything on the unions.
| 611 |
Amory Blaine Tue, Jun 5, 2012 9:06:48pm |
| 612 |
Targetpractice Tue, Jun 5, 2012 9:08:10pm |
re: #611 Amory Blaine
Beats the alternative.
It's hard for me to remain optimistic when I read headlines like this as I pull up Yahoo:
| 613 |
celticdragon Tue, Jun 5, 2012 9:08:47pm |
re: #597 Mich-again
For teachers about a 30% pay cut so far, in one year. Janitors, bus drivers, cafeteria ladies, (all union employees in her district) 0% pay cut.
That is Rick Snyder and the Tea Party's plan to revitalize education here.
I did a lot of research on this this last year. A lot of big money GOP players like the sister of Black Water founder Eric Prince (her name is Betsy DeVos) have been astroturfing across the country to kill off public schools and go with all private schooling. Just look at what happened in Louisiana this week.
By the by, Betsy DeVos was the former chairperson of the Michigan GOP.
May 6, 2011 |
Since the 2010 elections, voucher bills have popped up in legislatures around the nation. From Pennsylvania to Indiana to Florida, state governments across the country have introduced bills that would take money from public schools and use it to send students to private and religious institutions.Vouchers have always been a staple of the right-wing agenda. Like previous efforts, this most recent push for vouchers is led by a network of conservative think tanks, PACs, Religious Right groups and wealthy conservative donors. But "school choice," as they euphemistically paint vouchers, is merely a means to an end. Their ultimate goal is the total elimination of our public education system.
The decades-long campaign to end public education is propelled by the super-wealthy, right-wing DeVos family. Betsy Prince DeVos is the sister of Erik Prince, founder of the notorious private military contractor Blackwater USA (now Xe), and wife of Dick DeVos, son of the co-founder of Amway, the multi-tiered home products business.
| 614 |
dragonath Tue, Jun 5, 2012 9:09:11pm |
re: #608 Dark_Falcon
Not really - it keeps spreading eastwards. It's probably a good idea to gut your own deer though.
| 615 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Jun 5, 2012 9:09:21pm |
re: #612 Targetpractice
It's hard for me to remain optimistic when I read headlines like this as I pull up Yahoo:
Slick Willy was the best post-Ike Republican president.
| 616 |
Gus Tue, Jun 5, 2012 9:09:53pm |
RT @ProducerMatthew: CNN: Walker with 1.19m votes, Barrett with 1.01m votes (93% rep.) #wirecall— Andrew Kaczynski (@BuzzFeedAndrew) June 6, 2012
| 618 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Jun 5, 2012 9:10:12pm |
re: #606 Targetpractice
Because they thought it too risky to support the union-supported candidate. Better to go with the guy who's at the podium, declaring proudly that he'll ignore the unions if he chooses.
I think it was Falk's call to repeal the health care and pension contribution increases that made her ultimately unacceptable to many Dems. Leaving the rest of Scott Walker's union-restriction bill aside, most people people in Wisconsin did see the need to have state employees chip in more to keep the state on a even financial keel. Falk's call to undo a needed change smacked of partisanship over good sense.
| 619 |
celticdragon Tue, Jun 5, 2012 9:10:22pm |
re: #604 Amory Blaine
Well, at least the decades of blame for the teachers union is over. Wingnuts do realize that the teachers unions are basically dead in WI now? They will have to find a new boogieman.
They are still screaming about Black Panthers.
| 620 |
palomino Tue, Jun 5, 2012 9:12:27pm |
re: #605 Dark_Falcon
To some extent, it's about where people live. It's often said that rural or suburban Republicans in states like Illinois and Wisconsin are ignorant of the concerns of those living in urban centers. There is great truth in that, but there is also some truth in the reverse: Urban/Suburban Democrats are often ignorant of the concerns of rural voters.
Mostly, this due to the fact that urban voters are normally a solid Democrat constituency and rural voter are a solid Republican constituency. Neither party tends to go after the other's core voters most of the time, so often neither can see a chance to do so when one arises, because they are not looking for one and even if they saw it they are not prepared to take advantage.
A generalization but one that happens to be generally true. Just look at deep red Texas in 2008. McCain won by 10 points, even though Obama won 5 of the 6 largest cities. Outside those cities, except for the border areas where he's VERY popular with Hispanics, the vote was about 80-20 in McCain's favor. White rural voters, particularly in the South, see the Dems as the party of unarmed atheist homos, and thus won't vote for them. And I guess we in urban areas often see rural folks as bigoted bible-thumping know-nothing reactionaries.
We are a huge and diverse nation (likely the most diverse in the world). Keeping us from becoming even more polarized is a huge challenge; not something that can be achieved by one leader or even one party.
| 622 |
Mich-again Tue, Jun 5, 2012 9:12:51pm |
re: #613 celticdragon
I wonder what the rich white Christian Republicans will say when Islamic schools start knocking on the door for their taxpayer subsidies.
| 623 |
Targetpractice Tue, Jun 5, 2012 9:13:10pm |
re: #618 Dark_Falcon
I think it was Falk's call to repeal the health care and pension contribution increases that made her ultimately unacceptable to many Dems. Leaving the rest of Scott Walker's union-restriction bill aside, most people people in Wisconsin did see the need to have state employees chip in more to keep the state on a even financial keel. Falk's call to undo a needed change smacked of partisanship over good sense.
So the Dems wanted Walker gone, but then decided that the reasons they were running on why they wanted him gone were too extreme. No fucking wonder they lost.
| 624 |
dragonath Tue, Jun 5, 2012 9:13:21pm |
re: #613 celticdragon
The decades-long campaign to end public education is propelled by the super-wealthy, right-wing DeVos family. Betsy Prince DeVos is the sister of Erik Prince, founder of the notorious private military contractor Blackwater USA (now Xe), and wife of Dick DeVos, son of the co-founder of Amway, the multi-tiered home products business.
Cool, I can't wait for my multi-tiered education. I hear it's stacked like a pyramid.
| 625 |
Amory Blaine Tue, Jun 5, 2012 9:14:26pm |
re: #623 Targetpractice
Well that and a well oiled right wing machine.
| 626 |
alpuz Tue, Jun 5, 2012 9:16:41pm |
re: #604 Amory Blaine
They will. Being a fellow Wisconsinite... they will. I'm going to keep my thoughts regarding 'you reap what you sow' to myself tonight, but I'm already seeing an exodus of quality teachers. At all levels of education locally. My son's a National Honor Student here at one of the middle schools. The school has kids from all over the social spectrum, but mostly it's low income families. I attended his 8th grade graduation this morning. The teachers have done a wonderful job all the while being portrayed as thugs by the right-wing. Surreal.
| 627 |
Amory Blaine Tue, Jun 5, 2012 9:17:55pm |
Almost a landslide. I'd say Wi. looks grim for Obama no matter what the polls are saying right now. It's a long way to November for him here.
| 628 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Jun 5, 2012 9:18:27pm |
re: #623 Targetpractice
So the Dems wanted Walker gone, but then decided that the reasons they were running on why they wanted him gone were too extreme. No fucking wonder they lost.
No, many of them decided that Barrett had enough of a chance that the risk Falk posed was unjustified. Barrett also benefited from a better statewide organization, better fundraising, and more contacts among those who could give key non-union endorsements. He had the better campaign and that ultimately outweighed ideological and philosophical concerns.
"God is on the side of the big battalions." - Napoleon Bonaparte
| 630 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Jun 5, 2012 9:20:08pm |
re: #623 Targetpractice
So the Dems wanted Walker gone, but then decided that the reasons they were running on why they wanted him gone were too extreme. No fucking wonder they lost.
That and running an anti-gun urban Democrat. When we didn't get anyone different stepping up, this was the result I expected. Had a rural or sub-urban Democrat gotten the nomination? I think that might well have done a whole lot better than anyone from the Madison-Milwaukee axis.
| 631 |
palomino Tue, Jun 5, 2012 9:20:12pm |
re: #623 Targetpractice
So the Dems wanted Walker gone, but then decided that the reasons they were running on why they wanted him gone were too extreme. No fucking wonder they lost.
I think a lot of that has to do with the success of Clinton's presidency. His triangulation was effective, at least in terms of his own political viability. Since the 70s the Dems have mostly been afraid, with the exception of progressives in solid blue states/districts. And Clinton's success in the 90's seems to validate that middle road as the safest path.
| 632 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Jun 5, 2012 9:22:07pm |
re: #631 palomino
I think a lot of that has to do with the success of Clinton's presidency. His triangulation was effective, at least in terms of his own political viability. Since the 70s the Dems have mostly been afraid, with the exception of progressives in solid blue states/districts. And Clinton's success in the 90's seems to validate that middle road as the safest path.
Like I said in 615...
| 633 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Jun 5, 2012 9:22:41pm |
re: #631 palomino
I think a lot of that has to do with the success of Clinton's presidency. His triangulation was effective, at least in terms of his own political viability. Since the 70s the Dems have mostly been afraid, with the exception of progressives in solid blue states/districts. And Clinton's success in the 90's seems to validate that middle road as the safest path.
And in his call for a extension of current tax rates, we see Clinton once again playing the role of builder of compromise, trying to defuse tensions enough to hammer a longer-term solution together.
| 634 |
JamesWI Tue, Jun 5, 2012 9:25:48pm |
re: #627 Amory Blaine
Almost a landslide. I'd say Wi. looks grim for Obama no matter what the polls are saying right now. It's a long way to November for him here.
Eh, I'm not getting too pessimistic for November. Not just because of the polls, but the fact that unlike Barrett, Obama won't be getting outspent 10-1 any time soon.
| 635 |
palomino Tue, Jun 5, 2012 9:26:43pm |
re: #632 William Barnett-Lewis
Like I said in 615...
True, we really do have two parties: a far right Republican party, and a centrist Republican Party, aka the Democrats.
In France, which isn't really that far left compared to most of the West, a Socialist just got 52% of the national vote. There are like 3 places in the US where a socialist could win an election: Vermont, San Fran, and uhh, OK maybe only two places.
| 636 |
Obdicut Tue, Jun 5, 2012 9:27:27pm |
re: #633 Dark_Falcon
Are you simply dodging my question, Dark?
| 637 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Jun 5, 2012 9:27:46pm |
| 638 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Jun 5, 2012 9:28:41pm |
re: #634 JamesWI
Eh, I'm not getting too pessimistic for November. Not just because of the polls, but the fact that unlike Barrett, Obama won't be getting outspent 10-1 any time soon.
He's also a much better candidate that Barret.
Oh, well, at least there's still hope for the Governor Doe investigation... ;)
| 639 |
palomino Tue, Jun 5, 2012 9:29:01pm |
re: #633 Dark_Falcon
And in his call for a extension of current tax rates, we see Clinton once again playing the role of builder of compromise, trying to defuse tensions enough to hammer a longer-term solution together.
Didn't Obama try this a year ago? And, as in most cases, he was met with no cooperation by the gop, because they are religiously anti-tax now.
So Clinton's idea that we can put this off a year or two and then raise taxes (which he supports over the long run) is nothing more than a pipe dream, given the extreme rigidity of the gop's anti-tax dogma.
| 640 |
Obdicut Tue, Jun 5, 2012 9:30:39pm |
re: #637 Dark_Falcon
Yes.
That's pretty pathetic.
If you support Walker-- which you say you do-- then take some accountability for that support. Otherwise, what exactly does your support mean, when you support him but you're embarrassed to talk about him?
For fuck's sake.
| 641 |
blueraven Tue, Jun 5, 2012 9:30:54pm |
re: #612 Targetpractice
It's hard for me to remain optimistic when I read headlines like this as I pull up Yahoo:
Republican propaganda
| 642 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Jun 5, 2012 9:35:12pm |
re: #639 palomino
Didn't Obama try this a year ago? And, as in most cases, he was met with no cooperation by the gop, because they are religiously anti-tax now.
So Clinton's idea that we can put this off a year or two and then raise taxes (which he supports over the long run) is nothing more than a pipe dream.
Maybe locking things in for longer than one year, thus avoiding certain hot-button tax issues, would allow passions to cool. The idea might also have a somewhat greater chance coming from Bill Clinton, who is:
A. Seen as being closer to the center than Barack Obama.
B. White and without the foreign element of Obama's heritage that trips some people's triggers (though it shouldn't).
| 643 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Jun 5, 2012 9:40:37pm |
Dylan Byers of politico takes Fox News and MSNBC to the woodshed for their coverage of the Wisconsin recall, while praising CNN:
If ever there was a political event to lay bare the partisan ideologies of the cable news media, the Wisconsin recall was it.
MSNBC was blatantly rooting for Tom Barrett to defeat Gov. Scott Walker, even sending union champion Ed Schultz to cover an event with no apologies for the dog he has in the fight. (Earlier tonight, Chris Matthews even told Schultz that if he wasn't an MSNBC host, he could be head of the AFL-CIO.) When it became clear that Barrett would lose, Schultz looked almost teary eyed. Not long after, the network's contributors immediately began suggesting that this was, in fact, good news for Obama -- who, after all, hadn't even set foot in Wisconsin -- and began attacking Romney.
Meanwhile, Fox News was blatantly rooting for Gov. Walker, and the moment it became clear that Walker might win, host Sean Hannity called it "a repudiation of big unions," which did "everything they could do to demonize Scott Walker." Guest Hugh Hewitt then predicted that, five months from now, Romney would follow Walker just "as Reagan followed Thatcher." Fox's Greta Van Susteren later hosted what amounted to a victory celebration for the Republicans.
Given this blatant partisan coverage, it was absolutely impossible to watch either network and weed out any clear understanding of the actual significance of the event, much less what effect it would actually have on the 2012 presidential election.
Which means it was the perfect night for CNN, the network that bears the slogan "CNN = Politics" and claims to have "the best political team on television," to step up and offer what only it can offer: a semblance of nonpartisan political news coverage.
| 644 |
palomino Tue, Jun 5, 2012 9:43:40pm |
re: #642 Dark_Falcon
Maybe locking things in for longer than one year, thus avoiding certain hot-button tax issues, would allow passions to cool. The idea might also have a somewhat greater chance coming from Bill Clinton, who is:
A. Seen as being closer to the center than Barack Obama.
B. White and without the foreign element of Obama's heritage that trips some people's triggers (though it shouldn't).
Funny thing is that Clinton isn't really closer to the center...remember his stab at healthcare reform with Hillary in the lead? That was a farther left proposal than anything Obama has tried to do domestically in his whole term.
I agree with B, although you're far too kind to refer to racists and xenophobes as "people whose triggers get tripped." I just don't think the gop, especially in the House, will be willing to raise taxes (as Clinton did once, and still supports over the long term) anytime soon.
What would it take, especially if Obama retains the WH, to get Republicans to do the opposite of what the TP and Norquist want? Republican rhetoric now is all about further tax cuts; the current crop of gop congress members aren't going to do a 180 and start supporting tax increases.
| 645 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Jun 5, 2012 9:46:25pm |
re: #644 palomino
Funny thing is that Clinton isn't really closer to the center...remember his stab at healthcare reform with Hillary in the lead? That was a farther left proposal than anything Obama has tried to do domestically in his whole term.
I agree with B, however. I just don't think the gop, especially in the House, will be willing to raise taxes (as Clinton did once, and still supports over the long term) anytime soon.
What would it take, especially if Obama retains the WH, to get Republicans to do the opposite of what the TP and Norquist want? Republican rhetoric now is all about further tax cuts; the current crop of gop congress members aren't going to do a 180 and start supporting tax increases.
Actually, some in the Congress are softening their positions a bit, aware that bargains will need to be struck. But those longer term compromises aren't really possible in an election year, hence Clinton's suggestion. He was essentially saying "Let's take this issue off the table for this year and deal iwth it next year when the electoral pressure is off."
| 646 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Jun 5, 2012 9:48:51pm |
Good night all. Time to go get some sleep and pack some more tomorrow. Then I'll stop by the church and light a few candles hoping & praying that something good will come out of tonight.
But don't ask me what. I'm deeply pessimistic for our nations future right now.
Wisconsin: 1848 - 2012. Killed by Citizens United.
| 647 |
palomino Tue, Jun 5, 2012 9:49:58pm |
re: #645 Dark_Falcon
Actually, some in the Congress are softening their positions a bit, aware that bargains will need to be struck. But those longer term compromises aren't really possible in an election year, hence Clinton's suggestion. He was essentially saying "Let's take this issue off the table for this year and deal iwth it next year when the electoral pressure is off."
Are there really enough moderates in the gop to push through tax hikes? It's now gop dogma that tax cuts increase revenue...why on earth would they support "job killing" tax increases in the near future. That seems like a fantasy at this point, almost like expecting half of Dems to become pro-life; it's too violative of core convictions to be viable in the near term.
| 648 |
I Am Kreniigh! Tue, Jun 5, 2012 9:50:14pm |
Holy shit.
A drunk driver just ahead of me on the interstate slammed into a concrete lane divider and pinwheeled into an SUV that FLIPPED into the air and landed in front of the car in front of me and my girlfriend.
That car slammed into the bottom of the SUV. I braked in time. I don't think anyone was seriously hurt, but the woman in the SUV was trapped inside until the firemen got there. When the police pulled the guy out of his car, a half-empty can of beer fell out.
For two seconds -- two very long seconds -- I was driving into a Michael Bay movie. That SUV was UP IN THE AIR. But when I came to a stop, I wasn't alarmed or freaked out... I was just like, huh, that's interesting.
But now I am all keyed up and can't sleep. Delayed shock?
Hell of a day. Oh, and we saw a barred owl and some baby groundhogs earlier, while hiking. Yep.
| 649 |
palomino Tue, Jun 5, 2012 9:57:50pm |
re: #648 I Am Kreniigh!
Holy shit.
A drunk driver just ahead of me on the interstate slammed into a concrete lane divider and pinwheeled into an SUV that FLIPPED into the air and landed in front of the car in front of me and my girlfriend.
That car slammed into the bottom of the SUV. I braked in time. I don't think anyone was seriously hurt, but the woman in the SUV was trapped inside until the firemen got there. When the police pulled the guy out of his car, a half-empty can of beer fell out.
For two seconds -- two very long seconds -- I was driving into a Michael Bay movie. That SUV was UP IN THE AIR. But when I came to a stop, I wasn't alarmed or freaked out... I was just like, huh, that's interesting.
But now I am all keyed up and can't sleep. Delayed shock?
Hell of a day. Oh, and we saw a barred owl and some baby groundhogs earlier, while hiking. Yep.
Once I drove like Speed Racer on Mulholland Dr., lost control, spun out and wound up about 4 feet from the edge of a cliff. It was a sobering experience, probably the closest a civilian wussy like me will get to PTSD.
| 650 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Jun 5, 2012 10:04:37pm |
re: #648 I Am Kreniigh!
Holy shit.
A drunk driver just ahead of me on the interstate slammed into a concrete lane divider and pinwheeled into an SUV that FLIPPED into the air and landed in front of the car in front of me and my girlfriend.
That car slammed into the bottom of the SUV. I braked in time. I don't think anyone was seriously hurt, but the woman in the SUV was trapped inside until the firemen got there. When the police pulled the guy out of his car, a half-empty can of beer fell out.
For two seconds -- two very long seconds -- I was driving into a Michael Bay movie. That SUV was UP IN THE AIR. But when I came to a stop, I wasn't alarmed or freaked out... I was just like, huh, that's interesting.
But now I am all keyed up and can't sleep. Delayed shock?
Hell of a day. Oh, and we saw a barred owl and some baby groundhogs earlier, while hiking. Yep.
Delayed shock is part of it: As soon as your body started reacting, it started pumping adrenaline, and you've still got some in your system.
As for the drunk driver: I hope he gets a long sentence to in high security, to better teach him the error of his ways.
| 651 |
Kragar Tue, Jun 5, 2012 10:25:56pm |
re: #648 I Am Kreniigh!
Holy shit.
A drunk driver just ahead of me on the interstate slammed into a concrete lane divider and pinwheeled into an SUV that FLIPPED into the air and landed in front of the car in front of me and my girlfriend.
That car slammed into the bottom of the SUV. I braked in time. I don't think anyone was seriously hurt, but the woman in the SUV was trapped inside until the firemen got there. When the police pulled the guy out of his car, a half-empty can of beer fell out.
For two seconds -- two very long seconds -- I was driving into a Michael Bay movie. That SUV was UP IN THE AIR. But when I came to a stop, I wasn't alarmed or freaked out... I was just like, huh, that's interesting.
But now I am all keyed up and can't sleep. Delayed shock?
Hell of a day. Oh, and we saw a barred owl and some baby groundhogs earlier, while hiking. Yep.
Adrenaline is a hell of a drug
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