1 jamesfirecat  Thu, Jun 7, 2012 3:28:00pm

Like I asked last night, is there any particular symbolism/meaning to that fish, besides the obvious?

2 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Thu, Jun 7, 2012 3:34:20pm

re: #1 jamesfirecat

Like I asked last night, is there any particular symbolism/meaning to that fish, besides the obvious?

It's an "or else" threat. Fall in line or get sent to sleep with the fishes.

3 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Jun 7, 2012 3:48:57pm
4 Obdicut  Thu, Jun 7, 2012 4:25:33pm

I partially blame the educational system and popular culture, for not stressing the importance of the labor movement enough. There's a lot of whitewashing of just how bad shit was, how many union strikers were simply murdered, and how often people lived lives that were basically indentured servitude.

5 Only The Lurker Knows  Thu, Jun 7, 2012 4:27:06pm

Night Lizards. May the Deity of your choice, smile down upon you.

Sleep well.

6 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 7, 2012 4:27:37pm

re: #4 Obdicut

I partially blame the educational system and popular culture, for not stressing the importance of the labor movement enough. There's a lot of whitewashing of just how bad shit was, how many union strikers were simply murdered, and how often people lived lives that were basically indentured servitude.

Now now, can't teach any of that, as it would be favorable to unions!

7 Stanghazi  Thu, Jun 7, 2012 4:30:02pm

re: #4 Obdicut

I partially blame the educational system and popular culture, for not stressing the importance of the labor movement enough. There's a lot of whitewashing of just how bad shit was, how many union strikers were simply murdered, and how often people lived lives that were basically indentured servitude.

Also the current mindset of "I've got mine". Same as health insurance.

8 The Mountain That Blogs  Thu, Jun 7, 2012 4:31:20pm

re: #2 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

9 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Jun 7, 2012 4:33:25pm

re: #4 Obdicut

I partially blame the educational system and popular culture, for not stressing the importance of the labor movement enough. There's a lot of whitewashing of just how bad shit was, how many union strikers were simply murdered, and how often people lived lives that were basically indentured servitude.

I agree, and would add as another part some very significant over reach on the part of public sector unions. Probably best demonstrated by the egregious terms of some of those contracts here in California.
The LA Times has an article that shows some of this. It's a bit tangential but adds some insight.
[Link: articles.latimes.com...]

10 prairiefire  Thu, Jun 7, 2012 4:33:52pm

re: #7 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012

I am hoping the SC ruling on HC does not come down while I am visiting my RW mom in law. The Walker win was bad enough. "Unions are the mafia!"

11 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Jun 7, 2012 4:34:25pm

Time to punch out and get home, see y'all later

12 jaunte  Thu, Jun 7, 2012 4:34:43pm

Mitt Romney's Ethics Problem: Blind Trust Edition

Well, this is interesting news. It seems that Mittens hasn't really got his investments in a blind trust. What he has is about $250 million in trust accounts which are managed by his personal lawyer, and which continue to receive payments from Bain Capital which are classified as "carried interest."
....
When is a blind trust not a blind trust?
A blind trust is not a blind trust when there is direct or indirect control over investment decisions. While Romney has nominally placed his investments in a trust which is managed by someone else, the person he has chosen to manage those investments is his close associate and personal attorney. That is not a blind trust under federal law. It is a trust managed by a close personal friend and advisor.

13 Stanghazi  Thu, Jun 7, 2012 4:34:56pm

re: #10 prairiefire

I am hoping the SC ruling does not come down while I am visiting my RW mom in law. The Walker win was bad enough. "Unions are the mafia!"

You have a RW MIL? Oh my stars!

14 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 7, 2012 4:36:30pm

Mitt's "police" uniform explained?

Romney attended Stanford University for a year,[18][nb 4] where he worked as a night security guard in order to pay for trips home to see Ann.[28

15 jamesfirecat  Thu, Jun 7, 2012 4:36:52pm

re: #12 jaunte

Mitt Romney's Ethics Problem: Blind Trust Edition

So can you go to jail for something like that or is it only a fine?

16 Stanghazi  Thu, Jun 7, 2012 4:38:59pm

re: #14 Killgore Trout

Mitt's "police" uniform explained?

Dude. You are not "investigating" anymore. You are spinning and excusing!

17 erik_t  Thu, Jun 7, 2012 4:53:01pm

re: #14 Killgore Trout

Mitt's "police" uniform explained?

Stanford's campus is patrolled by Michigan State Troopers? Weird.

18 BongGhazi  Thu, Jun 7, 2012 4:53:27pm
ANN ROMNEY: He was a night security guard at the Stanford campus, and by earning that extra money, he was able to fly home and see me on weekends.

Anyone know where I can get me one of those part-time security guard jobs that pays enough to be able to afford round-trip tickets -- apparently on a regular basis -- from California to Michigan?

19 erik_t  Thu, Jun 7, 2012 4:53:47pm

re: #18 BongCrodny

Anyone know where I can get me one of those part-time security guard jobs that pays enough to be able to afford round-trip tickets -- apparently on a regular basis -- from California to Michigan?

Before Deregulation, mind you.

20 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Jun 7, 2012 4:55:33pm

PARDON ME SIR, DO YOU KNOW WHY I PULLED YOU OVER?

WHY IT'S TO HOLD YOU DOWN AND CUT YOUR HAIR HAR HAR I AM WANT PRESIDENT NOW


(NOHOMO)

21 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jun 7, 2012 5:00:42pm

re: #14 Killgore Trout

Mitt's "police" uniform explained?

That doesn't explain the allegation that he described it as a Michigan state trooper uniform given to him by his father. Once again you're conflating two entirely different accounts of two entirely different events and presenting them as if they're related and only one of them can be true. You seem to have a problem with ambiguity and need to present mutual exclusivity where it simply does not exist. Mitt's having worked as a private night security guard doesn't explain away the uniform, assuming the account of it is true, nor the two first hand non-anonymous accounts of him allegedly saying he planned to use it to pull people over.

You can disbelieve the two accounts by the Stanford couple simply because you want to, that's fine, but admit it. This ongoing effort to conflate unrelated stories and pretend/assert that only one of them can be true seems to be less about actually finding the truth than about feeding your preconceived notion about media bias that is in itself highly biased.

22 Stanghazi  Thu, Jun 7, 2012 5:01:03pm

4 deferments. Remember when deferments were a political hot issue?

23 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 7, 2012 5:01:19pm

re: #17 erik_t

Stanford's campus is patrolled by Michigan State Troopers? Weird.

I googled around a bit to see what campus security uniforms looked like back then but didn't find anything.

24 erik_t  Thu, Jun 7, 2012 5:01:34pm

For a Grade A Nontroversey (TM), the usual suspects sure are willing to pervert logic in order to explain it away.

25 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jun 7, 2012 5:02:13pm

re: #23 Killgore Trout

I googled around a bit to see what campus security uniforms looked like back then but didn't find anything.

LOL. That's pathetic.

26 erik_t  Thu, Jun 7, 2012 5:02:30pm

re: #23 Killgore Trout

I googled around a bit to see what campus security uniforms looked like back then but didn't find anything.

Come off it, man. Quit digging.

27 Stanghazi  Thu, Jun 7, 2012 5:03:15pm

re: #21 goddamnedfrank

That doesn't explain the allegation that he described it as a Michigan state trooper uniform given to him by his father. Once again you're conflating two entirely different accounts of two entirely different events and presenting them as if they're related and only one of them can be true. You seem to have a problem with ambiguity and need to present mutual exclusivity where it simply does not exist. Mitt's having worked as a private night security guard doesn't explain away the uniform, assuming the account of it is true, nor the two first hand non-anonymous accounts of him allegedly saying he planned to use it to pull people over.

You can disbelieve the two accounts by the Stanford couple simply because you want to, that's fine, but admit it. This ongoing effort to conflate unrelated stories and pretend/assert that only one of them can be true seems to be less about actually finding the truth than about feeding your preconceived notion about media bias that is in itself highly biased.

The best investigator, fact checker, regardless of the right/left divide.

Disproved with that stupid idiotic post. KT, wtf.

28 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 7, 2012 5:03:40pm

re: #21 goddamnedfrank

It's doesn't look like anyone else thinks the story is important or reliable. MSNBC and comedy central. The rest of the media seems to think there's a problem with the story too. It might catch on but it looks unlikely.

29 erik_t  Thu, Jun 7, 2012 5:04:24pm

re: #28 Killgore Trout

It's doesn't look like anyone else thinks the story is important or reliable. MSNBC and comedy central. The rest of the media seems to think there's a problem with the story too. It might catch on but it looks unlikely.

And, you know, the Washington friggin' Post.

30 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jun 7, 2012 5:06:43pm

re: #28 Killgore Trout

It's doesn't look like anyone else thinks the story is important or reliable. MSNBC and comedy central. The rest of the media seems to think there's a problem with the story too. It might catch on but it looks unlikely.

That's fine, I don't see them bending over backwards to assert logical exclusivity where it doesn't exist however. That's your gig, presenting inherently dishonest and illogical arguments in the service of pretending to be a balanced and true neutral Druid.

31 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 7, 2012 5:07:10pm

re: #28 Killgore Trout

It's doesn't look like anyone else thinks the story is important or reliable. MSNBC and comedy central. The rest of the media seems to think there's a problem with the story too. It might catch on but it looks unlikely.

So it's gone from "the story's explained" to "who cares, it's not that important"?

32 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Jun 7, 2012 5:07:19pm

CONTRARIAN DRUID!

33 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 7, 2012 5:07:32pm

re: #29 erik_t

And, you know, the Washington friggin' Post.

Link?

34 erik_t  Thu, Jun 7, 2012 5:07:43pm

re: #31 Targetpractice

So it's gone from "the story's explained" to "who cares, it's not that important"?

At the same time, usually. Shotgun Refuditation.

35 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jun 7, 2012 5:08:10pm

I googled around a bit to see what naughty nurses looked like back then and hit paydirt.

36 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Jun 7, 2012 5:08:39pm

stonehenge where the blog commenters dwell

37 erik_t  Thu, Jun 7, 2012 5:09:42pm

re: #33 Killgore Trout

Link?

I thought we covered it pretty well in the previous thread, in which you were quite active but apparently not that active.

But in a well-known prank in which Romney flashed a police siren and, bearing a fake badge and cap, approached two friends and their dates parked on a dark country road, there was a stronger undercurrent of fear to the incident than commonly conveyed. Candy Porter, a Kingswood boarder from a small town in Ohio, had a strict 11 p.m. curfew. As Romney and his Cranbrook pals played out the joke, pretending to be shocked over empty bourbon bottles in the trunk, Porter thought of the dorm mothers waiting at the door and the threat of expulsion. “I just remember being like a deer in headlights,” she said. “I just remember being terrified.” Once she realized it was all a prank, and was safely back at her dorm, Porter joined in the laughter.

38 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 7, 2012 5:10:27pm

re: #37 erik_t

I thought we covered it pretty well in the previous thread, in which you were quite active but apparently not that active.

Ah, ok. That was the original bullying story.

39 Stanghazi  Thu, Jun 7, 2012 5:10:41pm

re: #33 Killgore Trout

Link?

Geeze, in your investigation you didn't stumble on the WAPO story? Only Wikipedia?

Proof positive that your goal is to fuck up the blog while relying on your past accolades.

40 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Jun 7, 2012 5:11:52pm

merry and pippin came to the edge of the forest and beheld a towering blog commenter investigator whose conclusions were mostly just penises

41 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 7, 2012 5:12:46pm

re: #38 Killgore Trout

Ah, ok. That was the original bullying story.

...which does not mention an official police uniform.

But in a well-known prank in which Romney flashed a police siren and, bearing a fake badge and cap,

In fact the article claims they were fakes.

42 Stanghazi  Thu, Jun 7, 2012 5:12:47pm

re: #40 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]

merry and pippin came to the edge of the forest and beheld a towering blog commenter investigator whose conclusions were mostly just penises

You are awesome. I love the feeling of other peeps cringes.

43 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 7, 2012 5:14:39pm

fake badge and cap

44 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 7, 2012 5:15:18pm

It suddenly got so quiet there's an echo

45 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jun 7, 2012 5:16:41pm

Contrarian Druid was a proposed TV Series in the mid 1970's, they made a pilot starring Jack Klugman and Herve Villechaize.

46 jamesfirecat  Thu, Jun 7, 2012 5:17:03pm

re: #44 Killgore Trout

It suddenly got so quiet there's an echo

Yes 45 seconds without a post is unheard of on a Thursday night!

47 erik_t  Thu, Jun 7, 2012 5:18:29pm

Sorry, I was going to go vacuum because I've got guests coming over, but I'm apparently at KT's beck and call.

re: #41 Killgore Trout

...which does not mention an official police uniform.

In fact the article claims they were fakes.

Do you feel that this was the thrust of the article? The veracity of the police uniforms? Do you think a disparity here is more likely to indicate sloppiness on the part of the author, or a Vast Anti-Romney Conspiracy?

Since it now apparently matters, can you explain why it might be more acceptable to impersonate an officer of the law in a fake (versus illegitimately worn official) uniform?

48 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jun 7, 2012 5:19:07pm

re: #41 Killgore Trout

...which does not mention an official police uniform.

In fact the article claims they were fakes.

At Cranbrook, not Stanford. You're again presenting two different events as if they're the same one and implying that exclusivity must apply when it must not. It's like you majored in false equivalence at college.

49 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Thu, Jun 7, 2012 5:21:33pm

re: #36 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]

stonehenge where the blog commenters dwell

Wisconsin, when the unions fell.

50 b_snark  Thu, Jun 7, 2012 5:24:42pm

Romney playing a fantasy game where he's a cop really doesn't say much about the man other than he was a typical rich teenage prick. Putting together a posse to tackle, hold down and shear a kid says a hell of a lot, primarily that others not in his band of brothers mean nothing to him. Hardly someone you want in a position of power over an entire country.

51 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Jun 7, 2012 5:25:08pm

re: #50 b_sharp

Romney playing a fantasy game where he's a cop really doesn't say much about the man other than he was a typical rich teenage prick. Putting together a posse to tackle, hold down and shear a kid says a hell of a lot, primarily that others not in his band of brothers mean nothing to him. Hardly someone you want in a position of power over an entire country.

+++1111

52 erik_t  Thu, Jun 7, 2012 5:26:46pm

re: #50 b_sharp

Romney playing a fantasy game where he's a cop really doesn't say much about the man other than he was a typical rich teenage prick. Putting together a posse to tackle, hold down and shear a kid says a hell of a lot, primarily that others not in his band of brothers mean nothing to him. Hardly someone you want in a position of power over an entire country.

Well, unless you're already in his posse.

53 b_snark  Thu, Jun 7, 2012 5:29:09pm

re: #49 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Wisconsin, when the unions fell.

"Walker and Barrett at Kenosha"

54 jaunte  Thu, Jun 7, 2012 5:33:04pm

re: #40 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]

merry and pippin came to the edge of the forest and beheld a towering blog commenter investigator whose conclusions were mostly just penises

We must all endeavor to see the forest and not remain so focused on the penises trees.

55 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Thu, Jun 7, 2012 5:37:27pm

re: #54 jaunte

We must all endeavor to see the forest and not remain so focused on the penises trees.

We thought about it for a long time, "Endeavor to persevere." And when we had thought about it long enough, we declared war on the Union.

56 Stanghazi  Thu, Jun 7, 2012 5:38:55pm

re: #46 jamesfirecat

Yes 45 seconds without a post is unheard of on a Thursday night!

Bring back that oft respected Mandy Manners !

57 SteveMcG  Thu, Jun 7, 2012 5:39:57pm

About all this deferment stuff, if I remember correctly, Bill Clinton declined his deferment in that letter I heard about on NightLine all those years ago. As I remember it, he said he wanted to remain viable because he had future political ambitions, and was then assigned a high lottery number. At least that's the way I remember it.

58 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jun 7, 2012 5:44:18pm

re: #49 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Wisconsin, when the unions fell.

I posted this on Tuesday night, but the fact that Colbert used only footage from FNC and MSNBC has prompted me to post it again:

The worst night on cable news

By Dylan Byers

If ever there was a political event to lay bare the partisan ideologies of the cable news media, the Wisconsin recall was it.

MSNBC was blatantly rooting for Tom Barrett to defeat Gov. Scott Walker, even sending union champion Ed Schultz to cover an event with no apologies for the dog he has in the fight. (Earlier tonight, Chris Matthews even told Schultz that if he wasn't an MSNBC host, he could be head of the AFL-CIO.) When it became clear that Barrett would lose, Schultz looked almost teary eyed. Not long after, the network's contributors immediately began suggesting that this was, in fact, good news for Obama — who, after all, hadn't even set foot in Wisconsin — and began attacking Mitt Romney.

(Also on POLITICO: Supporter slaps Barrett after loss)

Meanwhile, Fox News was blatantly rooting for Gov. Scott Walker, and the moment it became clear that Walker might win, host Sean Hannity called it "a repudiation of big unions," which did "everything they could do to demonize Scott Walker." Guest Hugh Hewitt then predicted that, five months from now, Romney would follow Walker just "as Reagan followed Thatcher." Fox's Greta Van Susteren later hosted what amounted to a victory celebration for the Republicans.

Given such blatantly partisan coverage, it was absolutely impossible to watch either network and gain any clear understanding of the actual significance of the event, much less what effect it would actually have on the 2012 presidential election.

Which means it was the perfect night for CNN, the network that bears the slogan "CNN = Politics" and claims to have "the best political team on television," to step up and offer what only it can offer: a semblance of nonpartisan political news coverage.

If there is an unheralded 'media story' of Barack Obama's presidency, perhaps it would be titled "How CNN found itself and regained its place as the top provider of quality political coverage".

59 jamesfirecat  Thu, Jun 7, 2012 5:47:51pm

re: #58 Dark_Falcon

I posted this on Tuesday night, but the fact that Colbert used only footage from FNC and MSNBC has prompted me to post it again:

The worst night on cable news

By Dylan Byers

If there is an unheralded 'media story' of Barack Obama's presidency, perhaps it would be titled "How CNN found itself and regained its place as the top provider of quality political coverage".

What has CNN done exactly other than watch its two main competitors become more partisan?

Have they fired Eric son of Eric yet?

60 Mentis Fugit  Thu, Jun 7, 2012 5:52:36pm

re: #50 b_sharp

Romney playing a fantasy game where he's a cop really doesn't say much about the man other than he was a typical rich teenage prick. Putting together a posse to tackle, hold down and shear a kid says a hell of a lot, primarily that others not in his band of brothers mean nothing to him. Hardly someone you want in a position of power over an entire country.

Gotta disagree. Mitt and his yuk-yuk-yuk fratboy buddies thinking it's a great lark to scare the shit out of a couple of young women say exactly the same thing about him as the latter incident.
The provenance of the uniform is a red herring, saying "pay no attention to the moral character of the man behind the curtain."

61 Mattand  Thu, Jun 7, 2012 5:56:38pm

re: #14 Killgore Trout

Mitt's "police" uniform explained?

Oh, Jesus Christ, really? You're going to go with that?

62 Mattand  Thu, Jun 7, 2012 5:57:13pm

re: #59 jamesfirecat

What has CNN done exactly other than watch its two main competitors become more partisan?

Have they fired Eric son of Eric yet?

Or Dana Loesch?

63 b_snark  Thu, Jun 7, 2012 6:05:14pm

re: #60 Mentis Fugit

Gotta disagree. Mitt and his yuk-yuk-yuk fratboy buddies thinking it's a great lark to scare the shit out of a couple of young women say exactly the same thing about him as the latter incident.
The provenance of the uniform is a red herring, saying "pay no attention to the moral character of the man behind the curtain."

Although they are both stupid, they aren't the same in severity. One is physical violence that caused the victim lasting emotional pain, the other was a temporary fright the victim laughed about later.

64 Amory Blaine  Thu, Jun 7, 2012 6:31:03pm

re: #43 Killgore Trout

fake badge and cap

Just like the wearer.

65 Mentis Fugit  Thu, Jun 7, 2012 6:32:41pm

re: #63 b_sharp

Although they are both stupid, they aren't the same in severity. One is physical violence that caused the victim lasting emotional pain, the other was a temporary fright the victim laughed about later.

True, but type and degree are not the same thing. Both actions betray a particular way of regarding oneself in relation to other human beings.


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