Romney Campaign Chair: Taxpayers Really Do Want Fewer Teachers

Kragar

Politics • 6/11/12 11:33:01 am • Views: 25,109

Romney Campaign Chair: ‘Taxpayers Really Do Want To Hear There Will Be Fewer Teachers.’

SUNUNU: Let me respond as a taxpayer, not as a representative of the Romney campaign. There are municipalities, there are states where there is flight of population. And as the population goes down, you need fewer teachers. As technology contributes to community security and dealing with issues that firefighters have to deal with, you would hope that you can, as a taxpayer, see the benefits of the efficiency and personnel that you get out of that.

JANSING: But even if there’s movement to the suburbs, teachers and policemen are needed somewhere.

SUNUNU: But I’m going to tell you there are places where just pumping money in to add to the public payroll is not what the taxpayers of this country want.

JANSING: Do you think that taxpayers of this country want to hear fewer firefighters, fewer teachers, fewer police officers, from a strategic standpoint?

SUNUNU: If there’s fewer kids in the classrooms, the taxpayers really do want to hear there will be fewer teachers. […] You have a lot of places where that is happening. You have a very mobile country now where things are changing. You have cities in this country in which the school population peaked ten, 15 years ago. And, yet the number of teachers that may have maintained has not changed. I think this is a real issue. And people ought to stop jumping on it as a gaffe and understand there’s wisdom in the comment.

Yeah, as a taxpayer, I can’t tell you how happy I was when the teacher who was assigned to help with my daughter’s ADHD was laid off and they lost a teacher at each grade level, making all the classes around the school even more crowded. That really made me happy, knowing they could use those tax dollars on something important, like bailing out some stockbrokers or buying planes that don’t work.

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labman57 Mon, Jun 11, 2012 11:06:00am

The conservative movement's vision is to model k-12 education, police, and fire after the private health care insurance industry. People who can afford to do so would pay annual fees for these quality services, and those who cannot afford to pay would be provided minimal, third-rate services. Because our current system is clearly the result of anti-American socialist ideology.

Education for the masses? Not if Mitt can help it.

HappyWarrior Mon, Jun 11, 2012 11:09:09am

You already said but tell that to the parents of children with special needs. Must be nice to live in a vacuum where wealth means everything.

Obdicut Mon, Jun 11, 2012 11:35:46am

here are municipalities, there are states where there is flight of population. And as the population goes down, you need fewer teachers

Except that that population goes somewhere else in the US, you idiot, and so the total number of teachers needed wouldn't go down. it'd go up, every year, since the US grows in population every year.

What a weak attempt at a defense.

Charles Johnson Mon, Jun 11, 2012 11:36:13am

Promoted!

I'd like to see the wingnut response to this one. As far as I'm concerned, this is unbelievably worse than the Obama fake "doing fine" gaffe everyone was yelling about all weekend. This was no gaffe -- this is what you can expect if Romney is elected.

b_sharp Mon, Jun 11, 2012 11:36:33am

Taxpayers have fallen for the idea that they'll be much happier paying .5% less tax than they do.

HappyWarrior Mon, Jun 11, 2012 11:37:21am

Thanks Charles. Hoping he is slammed and slammed hard on this because they're insisting it's no gaffe.

b_sharp Mon, Jun 11, 2012 11:37:53am

re: #3 Obdicut

Except that that population goes somewhere else in the US, you idiot, and so the total number of teachers needed wouldn't go down. it'd go up, every year, since the US grows in population every year.

What a weak attempt at a defense.

Math is hard.

Mattand Mon, Jun 11, 2012 11:38:43am

re: #7 b_sharp

Math is hard.

This is why we need less teachers.

Wait, what?

Achilles Tang Mon, Jun 11, 2012 11:38:54am

I notice Sununu twice avoids the question, by saying that if a school has fewer students it needs fewer teacher... which to him means the whole country needs fewer teachers.

He doesn't mean that, but he thinks Republicans want to hear that, and buy it.

iossarian Mon, Jun 11, 2012 11:39:58am

re: #3 Obdicut

Except that that population goes somewhere else in the US, you idiot, and so the total number of teachers needed wouldn't go down. it'd go up, every year, since the US grows in population every year.

What a weak attempt at a defense.

Fits with the consulting/IB mindset, though, which is basically "we understand the problem better than you because we went to the best schools and are paid lots of money so we must be rilly rilly smart".

Smug morons in shiny suits.

jaunte Mon, Jun 11, 2012 11:40:06am

SUNUNU: Let me respond as a taxpayer, not as a representative of the Romney campaign.:

"My eight children are already educated, so screw you, I've got mine."

dragonath Mon, Jun 11, 2012 11:40:26am

NH saw through this guy, he lost his Senate seat a few years ago.

Decatur Deb Mon, Jun 11, 2012 11:40:51am

re: #1 labman57

The conservative movement's vision is to model k-12 education, police, and fire after the private health care insurance industry. People who can afford to do so would pay annual fees for these quality services, and those who cannot afford to pay would be provided minimal, third-rate services. Because our current system is clearly the result of anti-American socialist ideology.

Education for the masses? Not if Mitt can help it.

And their vision is stupid, because a bunch of sick kids threaten my kids' health, a bunch of uneducated citizens threatens my economy, a fire in my town threatens all property in the town and criminals in the hood won't be stopped by a rental gate guard. Wish these assholes would just go Galt. Give them Idaho.

Kragar Mon, Jun 11, 2012 11:41:30am

re: #13 Decatur Deb

And their vision is stupid, because a bunch of sick kids threaten my kids' health, a bunch of uneducated citizens threatens my economy, a fire in my town threatens all property in the town and criminals in the hood won't be stopped by a rental gate guard. Wish these assholes would just go Galt. Give them Idaho.

They've already got the South. Let them keep it this time.

aagcobb Mon, Jun 11, 2012 11:41:47am

re: #13 Decatur Deb

Wish these assholes would just go Galt. Give them Idaho.

No good, they want it all.

Decatur Deb Mon, Jun 11, 2012 11:42:55am

re: #14 Kragar

They've already got the South. Let them keep it this time.

I'm not conceding the BBQ.

b_sharp Mon, Jun 11, 2012 11:42:59am

re: #11 jaunte

SUNUNU: Let me respond as a taxpayer, not as a representative of the Romney campaign.:

"My eight children are already educated, so screw you, I've got mine."

The schools are filling up with minorities; why should ROWM have to waste money educating them?

GunstarGreen Mon, Jun 11, 2012 11:43:54am

It's pretty infuriating down here in the good ol' south with Boortz on the radio every morning, parroting "Three months vacation!" nearly daily. Completely unchallenged, of course.

When the hell do these morons think lesson plans get put together and supplemental teaching material gets prepared?

Honestly, I sorta hope we DO start to see some big education hits. Maybe when Joe Average's kids start coming up to be miserably under-educated losers the public will start to wise up.

Achilles Tang Mon, Jun 11, 2012 11:44:45am

It seems (no surprise) that Sununu is just another Tea Party mouthpiece. He thinks it is the media that has a "birther" fixation, not Republicans. Why does the media keep mentioning it?///

I would be embarrassed to have a job that called for this kind of commentary

b_sharp Mon, Jun 11, 2012 11:45:59am

Isn't the US already behind 16 other countries (some of them with socialist leanings) in maths and science education?

HappyWarrior Mon, Jun 11, 2012 11:46:49am

re: #20 b_sharp

Isn't the US already behind 16 other countries (some of them with socialist leanings) in maths and science education?

Yes, we are but we can't throw money at problems*
*Unless it's defense than we can spend like drunks at the bar

Decatur Deb Mon, Jun 11, 2012 11:47:05am

re: #20 b_sharp

Isn't the US already behind 16 other countries (some of them with socialist leanings) in maths and science education?

That's only significant if you think of us as one country. The assholes don't think that way.

Kragar Mon, Jun 11, 2012 11:47:51am

re: #20 b_sharp

Isn't the US already behind 16 other countries (some of them with socialist leanings) in maths and science education?

But we still have great historians like David Barton!

Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Mon, Jun 11, 2012 11:47:52am

re: #18 GunstarGreen

It's pretty infuriating down here in the good ol' south with Boortz on the radio every morning, parroting "Three months vacation!" nearly daily. Completely unchallenged, of course.

When the hell do these morons think lesson plans get put together and supplemental teaching material gets prepared?

Honestly, I sorta hope we DO start to see some big education hits. Maybe when Joe Average's kids start coming up to be miserably under-educated losers the public will start to wise up.

A lovely thought. But our culture and country can't afford spending a few decades trying to recover from that, assuming that it would eventually recover and start treasuring education as a universal good and necessity.

Shiplord Kirel Mon, Jun 11, 2012 11:48:15am

Will the NEXT person on the Moon be an American? We may yet have time for that before superstition and GOP sabotage destroys our education system completely.
Forget Mars, though: The first person on Mars is likely to be Chinese, or perhaps Indian.

erik_t Mon, Jun 11, 2012 11:48:16am

Is the next Romney-step in this particular new item a 1) bizarre and backwards attack on Obama for getting rid of teachers 2) an attack on the gotcha librul media or 3) total silence?

Achilles Tang Mon, Jun 11, 2012 11:48:48am

re: #23 Kragar

But we still have great historians like David Barton!

and Newt Gingrich.

dragonath Mon, Jun 11, 2012 11:49:02am

re: #18 GunstarGreen

I don't have that kind of faith, certain people would see things decline to the level of Zimbabwe as long as they can keep on hating.

There are many religious home schoolers who are being taught math by people who don't know how to do it. A recipe for a permanent underclass.

b_sharp Mon, Jun 11, 2012 11:49:21am

re: #23 Kragar

But we still have great historians like David Barton!

All the bestest historians make up their own histories.

dragonath Mon, Jun 11, 2012 11:50:35am

re: #29 b_sharp

Image: colinisation.jpg

HappyWarrior Mon, Jun 11, 2012 11:50:48am

We've been lagging behind in education for some time now and what do Republicans like Romney propose doing? Cutting it. Typical screw you, I got mine mentality from a party whose whole philosophy seems to becoming exactly that.

Achilles Tang Mon, Jun 11, 2012 11:50:59am

re: #25 Shiplord Kirel

Will the NEXT person on the Moon be an American? We may yet have time for that before superstition and GOP sabotage destroys our education system completely.
Forget Mars, though: The first person on Mars is likely to be Chinese, or perhaps Indian.

As has been mentioned the last few days, there are supposedly 3.5 million open jobs in the USA, and no qualified people to fill them.

Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Mon, Jun 11, 2012 11:51:38am

re: #30 Be Zorch, Daddio

Image: colinisation.jpg

SO, Colonisation is when the lizards land and invade your large intestine?
O_o

b_sharp Mon, Jun 11, 2012 11:51:58am

re: #25 Shiplord Kirel

Will the NEXT person on the Moon be an American? We may yet have time for that before superstition and GOP sabotage destroys our education system completely.
Forget Mars, though: The first person on Mars is likely to be Chinese, or perhaps Indian.

If China gets to the Moon, they can throw rocks at the US virtually free.

Have they (the RW) forgotten the military advantage the sky gives a country?

SidewaysQuark Mon, Jun 11, 2012 11:52:00am

re: #13 Decatur Deb

Wish these assholes would just go Galt. Give them Idaho.

The type of people who would actually "Go Galt" are the same ones who would require a bailout a year down the road. Why punish Idaho so?

b_sharp Mon, Jun 11, 2012 11:52:40am

re: #28 Be Zorch, Daddio

I don't have that kind of faith, certain people would see things decline to the level of Zimbabwe as long as they can keep on hating.

There are many religious home schoolers who are being taught math by people who don't know how to do it. A recipe for a permanent underclass.

What are you talking about, don't you know it's the left that is all angry and hateful?

Kragar Mon, Jun 11, 2012 11:52:42am

re: #31 HappyWarrior

We've been lagging behind in education for some time now and what do Republicans like Romney propose doing? Cutting it. Typical screw you, I got mine mentality from a party whose whole philosophy seems to becoming exactly that.

But they still want super new weapons, which will probably be engineered by people who earned their degrees overseas before immigrating to the US.

Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Mon, Jun 11, 2012 11:52:57am

re: #35 SidewaysQuark

The type of people who would actually "Go Galt" are the same ones who would require a bailout a year down the road. Why punish Idaho so?

You just have to make sure they forget to take any telephone sanitizers with them. Very easy to overlook.

Shiplord Kirel Mon, Jun 11, 2012 11:53:00am

I once predicted there would be wailing and gnashing of teeth, akin to the Sputnik panic of 1957, if the Chinese got to the Moon before we got back.
I might be wrong though. Fox News can declare it a hoax while David Barton and the other superstition lords declare it un-Christian; and the problem will be solved.

SidewaysQuark Mon, Jun 11, 2012 11:53:05am

re: #34 b_sharp

If China gets to the Moon, they can throw rocks at the US virtually free.

Have they (the RW) forgotten the military advantage the sky gives a country?

No, that's why they shoot past science and go straight for getting "God" on our side - can't get to higher altitude than heaven, no?

HappyWarrior Mon, Jun 11, 2012 11:53:19am

Republicans cry about government spending yet look at what Walker and Romney spend on their campaigns. Fiscal conservatives, no, tax and spending cuts above all jerks, yes.

erik_t Mon, Jun 11, 2012 11:53:21am

re: #37 Kragar

But they still want super new weapons, which will probably be engineered by people who earned their degrees overseas before immigrating to the US.

One does not see a lot of foreign degrees in the engineering industry. Almost exclusively people who first came over for a US graduate degree.

Kragar Mon, Jun 11, 2012 11:54:00am

re: #42 erik_t

One does not see a lot of foreign degrees in the engineering industry. Almost exclusively people who first came over for a US graduate degree.

I see that trend as likely to change.

Achilles Tang Mon, Jun 11, 2012 11:54:11am

re: #30 Be Zorch, Daddio

Image: colinisation.jpg

Reptilian enemas?

erik_t Mon, Jun 11, 2012 11:54:44am

re: #43 Kragar

I see that trend as likely to change.

You're welcome to that. I'd be shocked. Science/tech people already come to a large degree from science-inclined families, and those will continue to find a way that their children are educated to a decent and reasonable degree.

b_sharp Mon, Jun 11, 2012 11:55:07am

re: #40 SidewaysQuark

No, that's why they shoot past science and go straight for getting "God" on our side - can't get to higher altitude than heaven, no?

And when they lose, they have a built-in excuse.

SidewaysQuark Mon, Jun 11, 2012 11:55:33am

re: #43 Kragar

I see that trend as likely to change.

Of course it will - it takes good engineers to educate future engineers. Why become an engineer when you can score big as a business major raking in millions orchestrating the next U.S. banking crisis?

allegro Mon, Jun 11, 2012 11:55:38am

re: #41 HappyWarrior

Republicans cry about government spending yet look at what Walker and Romney spend on their campaigns. Fiscal conservatives, no, tax and spending cuts above all jerks, yes.

Buying a country is expensive.

Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Mon, Jun 11, 2012 11:57:08am

re: #48 allegro

Buying a country is expensive.

I take it the backup plan is to by a cheap state like Wyoming and then arrange for it to become a nuclear power with its own army, air force, and navy (built around a carrier battle group)?
//

Targetpractice Mon, Jun 11, 2012 11:57:25am

re: #31 HappyWarrior

We've been lagging behind in education for some time now and what do Republicans like Romney propose doing? Cutting it. Typical screw you, I got mine mentality from a party whose whole philosophy seems to becoming exactly that.

I remember awhile back, a wingnut decided he'd "do the math" and decided for himself that if you took what this nation spent on education every year and issued every family a voucher instead, they'd all be able to afford private school educations. I immediately started laughing my head off, because I couldn't be sure whether he was immensely naive or lying out his ass.

Shiplord Kirel Mon, Jun 11, 2012 11:58:42am

Our top science and engineering schools can keep going by bringing in more foreign students. They will almost have to if the Louisiana system takes hold and American students start arriving in college with the idea that red shift, relativity, and radioactive decay are socialist hoaxes.

Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Mon, Jun 11, 2012 11:59:17am

re: #50 Targetpractice

I remember awhile back, a wingnut decided he'd "do the math" and decided for himself that if you took what this nation spent on education every year and issued every family a voucher instead, they'd all be able to afford private school educations. I immediately started laughing my head off, because I couldn't be sure whether he was immensely naive or lying out his ass.

There has got to be a few really good howlers in that set of calculations.

HappyWarrior Mon, Jun 11, 2012 11:59:28am

re: #50 Targetpractice

I remember awhile back, a wingnut decided he'd "do the math" and decided for himself that if you took what this nation spent on education every year and issued every family a voucher instead, they'd all be able to afford private school educations. I immediately started laughing my head off, because I couldn't be sure whether he was immensely naive or lying out his ass.

I love how private education is made out to be a savior. I wouldn't have gotten the special ed help I got in public school had I gone to private school.

Targetpractice Mon, Jun 11, 2012 12:02:21pm

re: #52 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

There has got to be a few really good howlers in that set of calculations.

It was, but I was too busy poking holes in his theory. Like pointing out that private schools which have been priced for years out of the range of poor folks aren't suddenly gonna throw open their doors to the great unwashed masses just because they've now got a voucher. The Haves are gonna do whatever they need to to avoid rubbing shoulders with the Have-Nots.

SidewaysQuark Mon, Jun 11, 2012 12:03:30pm

re: #51 Shiplord Kirel

Our top science and engineering schools can keep going by bringing in more foreign students. They will almost have to if the Louisiana system takes hold and American students start arriving in college with the idea that red shift, relativity, and radioactive decay are socialist hoaxes.

You just reminded me of my favorite unintentionally hilarious, I-wish-it-was-a-hoax conservative "science" page:

E = mc² is liberal claptrap

Eventual Carrion Mon, Jun 11, 2012 12:03:36pm

re: #53 HappyWarrior

I love how private education is made out to be a savior. I wouldn't have gotten the special ed help I got in public school had I gone to private school.

Private schools in the past had a better record because of SMALL CLASS SIZES. The teacher could spend more one-on-one time per each students needs. They give out vouchers and make the class sizes grow in the private schools and you will see their scores dropping also.

HappyWarrior Mon, Jun 11, 2012 12:04:56pm

re: #56 RayFerd

Private schools in the past had a better record because of SMALL CLASS SIZES. The teacher could spend more one-on-one time per each students needs. They give out vouchers and make the class sizes grow in the private schools and you will see their scores dropping also.

Don't many modern private schools have fewer specialists that help out kids in learning disabilities? I remember hearing that somewhere.

Targetpractice Mon, Jun 11, 2012 12:05:10pm

re: #56 RayFerd

Private schools in the past had a better record because of SMALL CLASS SIZES. The teacher could spend more one-on-one time per each students needs. They give out vouchers and make the class sizes grow in the private schools and you will see their scores dropping also.

See, that's the unspoken truth about private schools, namely those singing their praises never acknowledge that those schools get to pick and choose which students will learn within their halls. Public schools don't get that luxury.

Achilles Tang Mon, Jun 11, 2012 12:05:32pm

Here's one example of what can happen when religion and profit and politics combine to pretend they can be educators. This school has since closed.

Scientology and public money

b_sharp Mon, Jun 11, 2012 12:06:22pm

re: #55 SidewaysQuark

You just reminded me of my favorite unintentionally hilarious, I-wish-it-was-a-hoax conservative "science" page:

E = mc² is liberal claptrap

That has to be a POE.

HappyWarrior Mon, Jun 11, 2012 12:07:15pm

re: #55 SidewaysQuark

You just reminded me of my favorite unintentionally hilarious, I-wish-it-was-a-hoax conservative "science" page:

E = mc² is liberal claptrap

Phyillis Schalfry son > Einstein. lol.

SidewaysQuark Mon, Jun 11, 2012 12:07:18pm

re: #60 b_sharp

That has to be a POE.

Well, It's Andy Schlafly posting the nonsense, so pretty much the same thing.

HappyWarrior Mon, Jun 11, 2012 12:08:05pm

re: #62 SidewaysQuark

Well, It's Andy Schlafly posting the nonsense, so pretty much the same thing.

He's doing his best to make Mom look sane, not an easy task.

Kragar Mon, Jun 11, 2012 12:08:14pm

re: #55 SidewaysQuark

You just reminded me of my favorite unintentionally hilarious, I-wish-it-was-a-hoax conservative "science" page:

E = mc² is liberal claptrap

The speed of light is another government regulation that Romney will do away with when elected.

HappyWarrior Mon, Jun 11, 2012 12:09:40pm

re: #64 Kragar

The speed of light is another government regulation that Romney will do away with when elected.

Will he stop the socialist adapting to surroundings?

Kragar Mon, Jun 11, 2012 12:10:20pm

GOP promises to state pi will equal 3 as part of simplified education platform.

SidewaysQuark Mon, Jun 11, 2012 12:10:21pm

re: #63 HappyWarrior

He's doing his best to make Mom look sane, not an easy task.

I'm personally thankful for ridiculousness from crackpots at this level of insanity - because it instantly robs the credibility from nonsense they write regarding other topics that might be tougher to discern for the layperson.

b_sharp Mon, Jun 11, 2012 12:10:53pm

re: #62 SidewaysQuark

Well, It's Andy Schlafly posting the nonsense, so pretty much the same thing.

I didn't look close enough, my brain was starting to sizzle. I thought somebody went under the radar and posted that and the RWNJ liked it so much they kept it.

Had I recognized it as a Schlafly original I would have just barfed instead.

Shiplord Kirel Mon, Jun 11, 2012 12:12:23pm

Fundies have created a new form of Lysenkoism, in which every scientific observation must pass muster with their ideological requirements or be summarily rejected.
This neo-Lysenkoism is invading all aspects of middle American life. A potential client asked me recently if we use "carbon dating" in our work (we do erosion and soil bearing studies). I suppressed an impulse to shout "what the fuck?" and answered simply no, we do not have to date organic samples to reach our results. He said good since he didn't trust any results based on radiocarbon dating.

Decatur Deb Mon, Jun 11, 2012 12:13:11pm

re: #67 SidewaysQuark

I'm personally thankful for ridiculousness from crackpots at this level of insanity - because it instantly robs the credibility from nonsense they write regarding other topics that might be tougher to discern for the layperson.

But the Schlaflys are not crackpot-rated. They are mainstreamed TPGOP panel-stuffers.

HappyWarrior Mon, Jun 11, 2012 12:13:21pm

Don't forget the history education platform. -"America was created by God and has never done anything wrong*" Except for liberalism.

SidewaysQuark Mon, Jun 11, 2012 12:14:40pm

re: #70 Decatur Deb

But the Schlaflys are not crackpot-rated. They are mainstreamed TPGOP panel-stuffers.

All the more beautiful that they keep talking.

danarchy Mon, Jun 11, 2012 12:16:41pm

re: #21 HappyWarrior

Yes, we are but we can't throw money at problems*
*Unless it's defense than we can spend like drunks at the bar

Does that imply we should throw more money at it? Because we already spend more per student than almost all of those countries and are still getting worse results. That would tend to indicate money isn't really the issue.

Shouldn't we try to figure out why they are getting more bang for their buck?

b_sharp Mon, Jun 11, 2012 12:17:46pm

re: #69 Shiplord Kirel

Fundies have created a new form of Lysenkoism, in which every scientific observation must pass muster with their ideological requirements or be summarily rejected.
This neo-Lysenkoism is invading all aspects of middle American life. A potential client asked me recently if we use "carbon dating" in our work (we do erosion and soil bearing studies). I suppressed an impulse to shout "what the fuck?" and answered simply no, we do not have to date organic samples to reach our results. He said good since he didn't trust any results based on radiocarbon dating.

Tell him there is no law that says he has to date any radiocarbon and that it's OK to date people.

Achilles Tang Mon, Jun 11, 2012 12:17:55pm

re: #55 SidewaysQuark

You just reminded me of my favorite unintentionally hilarious, I-wish-it-was-a-hoax conservative "science" page:

E = mc² is liberal claptrap

That is interesting. Take this statement

Biblical Scientific Foreknowledge predicts that a unified theory of all the laws of physics is impossible, because light and matter were created at different times, in different ways, as described in the Book of Genesis

and then write a bunch of inconclusive "proofs" validating it, or not.

I'm not qualified to critique, but I think there one fundamental wrong in their argument, namely that they equate mass with gravity in attempting to prove that e=mc2 is not what it claims to be.

Needless to say, gravity is not present in the equation nor is it needed.

HappyWarrior Mon, Jun 11, 2012 12:19:38pm

re: #73 danarchy

Does that imply we should throw more money at it? Because we already spend more per student than almost all of those countries and are still getting worse results. That would tend to indicate money isn't really the issue.

Shouldn't we try to figure out why they are getting more bang for their buck?

I'm saying that the solution shouldn't be to cut education funding and teachers. Agree money really isn't the issue but it is an issue that one of the parties scorns the idea of evolutionary science in science class or that we need more of the Bible.

b_sharp Mon, Jun 11, 2012 12:20:36pm

re: #73 danarchy

Does that imply we should throw more money at it? Because we already spend more per student than almost all of those countries and are still getting worse results. That would tend to indicate money isn't really the issue.

Shouldn't we try to figure out why they are getting more bang for their buck?

Where does all that money go?

Decatur Deb Mon, Jun 11, 2012 12:21:12pm

re: #73 danarchy

Does that imply we should throw more money at it? Because we already spend more per student than almost all of those countries and are still getting worse results. That would tend to indicate money isn't really the issue.

Shouldn't we try to figure out why they are getting more bang for their buck?

OK. I know the Italian system--PE but no schools sport, no dances, no driver's ed, vocational/college tracks from an early grade, national curriculum (even to the school lunches). Also, tremendous respect for teachers and administrators and parental involvement to the point of fisticuffs.

HappyWarrior Mon, Jun 11, 2012 12:21:26pm

re: #77 b_sharp

Where does all that money go?

In Scandinavia, I know a lot of it goes towards health care.

HappyWarrior Mon, Jun 11, 2012 12:24:02pm

re: #78 Decatur Deb

OK. I know the Italian system--PE but no schools sports, no dances, no driver's ed, vocational/college tracks from an early grade, national curriculum (even to the school lunches). Also, tremendous respect for teachers and administrators and parental involvement to the point of fisticuffs.

That would never go over here. Anyhow, problem with a lot of higher education these days is too much is placed on sports. Read an article here back about the University of Florida cutting a lot from its computer science program and putting that money into the football team. I mean really, I love football but schools need to figure out their priorities especially for a growing field like CS.

Decatur Deb Mon, Jun 11, 2012 12:26:08pm

re: #80 HappyWarrior

That would never go over here. Anyhow, problem with a lot of higher education these days is too much is placed on sports. Read an article here back about the University of Florida cutting a lot from its computer science program and putting that money into the football team. I mean really, I love football but schools need to figure out their priorities especially for a growing field like CS.

OK then. We can let Italian schools stomp Alabama's into the academic mud, but We're Number One in the SEC.

HappyWarrior Mon, Jun 11, 2012 12:29:03pm

re: #81 Decatur Deb

OK then. We can let Italian schools stomp Alabama's into the academic mud, but We're Number One in the SEC.

Heh I don't disagree at all. I do like some parts of what I'm seeing from the Italian system though.

sagehen Mon, Jun 11, 2012 12:35:20pm

re: #49 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

I take it the backup plan is to by a cheap state like Wyoming and then arrange for it to become a nuclear power with its own army, air force, and navy (built around a carrier battle group)?
//

Did you watch the show "Jericho"? That's sort of what happened....

Eventual Carrion Mon, Jun 11, 2012 12:36:41pm

re: #57 HappyWarrior

Don't many modern private schools have fewer specialists that help out kids in learning disabilities? I remember hearing that somewhere.

It was that way when I went to them, and also the few years my oldest kids went there.

William Barnett-Lewis Mon, Jun 11, 2012 12:37:45pm

re: #56 RayFerd

Private schools in the past had a better record because of SMALL CLASS SIZES. The teacher could spend more one-on-one time per each students needs. They give out vouchers and make the class sizes grow in the private schools and you will see their scores dropping also.

Actually what'll happen is that the good privates schools will have a sudden tuition increase and, oops, sorry that voucher isn't enough. Hank's Bible School over there will take it though.

Decatur Deb Mon, Jun 11, 2012 12:39:35pm

re: #85 William Barnett-Lewis

Actually what'll happen is that the good privates schools will have a sudden tuition increase and, oops, sorry that voucher isn't enough. Hank's Bible School over there will take it though.

Which will be alright as long as Hank's congregation isn't overly 'diversified'.

Eventual Carrion Mon, Jun 11, 2012 12:57:04pm

re: #73 danarchy

Does that imply we should throw more money at it? Because we already spend more per student than almost all of those countries and are still getting worse results. That would tend to indicate money isn't really the issue.

Shouldn't we try to figure out why they are getting more bang for their buck?

Some (not all, but some) countries don't have mandatory primary level education (like K-12 in USA). The kids that show a proficiency for a subject(s) are pushed to that subject(s), and those that just can't seem to catch on to the schooling will be taught a trade they might show a proficiency in. We (USA) on the other hand make it a pretty much one-size-fits-all curriculum (to 12th grade at least). Which way is the best? Do countries that have mandatory primary education do better than us and the others that do not? Which countries are doing better for less and what is their structure?

Mich-again Mon, Jun 11, 2012 4:52:44pm

What I find odd is that all the discussions about school reform always focuses in on the teachers. In my wife's public school district in Taylor Michigan there are more non-certified employees in the district than there are teachers. Bus drivers, janitors, building engineers, cafeteria ladies, secretaries.. All of these employees belong to AFSME and make union wages, have defined pension plans and have a health care plan which is better than the teachers plan. But you never hear the GOP talk about them. It really baffles me.

And the Michigan Tea Party/ GOP led by Rick Snyder have specifically targeted teachers wages, pensions, health care plans, seniority rights, etc. and they have completely left the service employees out of the discussion. The district pays more for the non certified costs than for the teachers now and the janitor in my wife's classroom makes more money than her, with 23 years seniority and a Master's degree.

That is how the Tea Party / GOP is redefining education in Michigan. Brilliant fucking plan.

Mich-again Mon, Jun 11, 2012 4:58:00pm

Mitt Romney bemoans how we have a shortage of scientists and people with technical degrees in the USA and has made it a campaign pledge to increase the number of worker Visas for immigrant scientists and people with technical degrees. But his same campaign website does not mention a single thing about attracting more American kids to the technical fields where we need more people.

Just like the Richie Rich capitalist that he is, he says the domestic models are too expensive so we should just import more from overseas. There's a fine long-term plan for American National security. Abandon our own education system because its too expensive and just hope that India and China will train scientists for us.

Mich-again Mon, Jun 11, 2012 5:05:08pm

re: #69 Shiplord Kirel

I had a discussion with a person around work today, not a co-worker btw.. He was listening to Rush Limbo on the radio and I mocked Rush for being an ignorant windbag.. Anyway in the ensuing conversation, I said, OK straight up.. Answer me one question. Did Noah bring the dinosaurs on the ark or not ? And he said yes. I was like Holy fuck, this dude is crazy! You gotta be f-ing kidding me right? You can't be that ignorant? He is. And you can't tell by looking at him. Gave me the creeps that I work around someone that detached from reality.

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