Hate Group Leader Robert Spencer Now Featured Writer at PJ Media: The Backstory

They’ve grown accustomed to his hate
Wingnuts • Views: 29,107

When I worked for PJ Media several years back, anti-Muslim hateblogger Robert Spencer used to frequently email me, begging to be included in PJ Media’s advertising program and have his articles published at the site.

At the time, Roger Simon and the real decision maker of PJ Media, investor Aubrey Chernick, were very, very nervous about Spencer, and worried that his brand of bigotry might negatively affect advertising sales. So they just kept putting off Spencer with excuses about his “non-profit” status being a problem.

Well, now that the right wing has gone completely cuckoo, associating with hate group leaders and anti-Muslim bigots is apparently no longer a problem for PJ Media, because today we discover that Robert Spencer — one of the main inspirations for Norwegian mass murderer Anders Breivik — has, at last, had his wish granted, and his hate speech and incitement to violence is now regular fare: PJ Media » The Media’s Double Standard for Muslims.

(I’m not going to bother quoting from this; it’s the same whiny anti-Muslim garbage Spencer endlessly recycles.)

Note that Spencer’s article coincides with the announcement that he and loony Pamela Geller are going to participate in a demonstration in Stockholm with the violent far right thugs known as the English Defence League.

I suppose this is another indicator of how far to the right the conservative movement has swung, when a site like Pajamas Media, conceived as a place where left and right could meet and engage in rational debate, has become a hangout for the worst kind of gutter bigotry.

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201 comments

1 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 10:59:55am

The EDL, proudly celebrating loser-hood.

2 Bulworth  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 11:02:56am

Is Roger Simon still a part of PJ?

3 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 11:04:00am

re: #2 Bulworth

Is Roger Simon still a part of PJ?

Yes.

4 Achilles Tang  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 11:06:38am

OT:

I thought this worth sharing if anyone wants to contribute an opinion. At least there is still some bipartisan activity going on in Washington.

Citizens United opinion

5 wrenchwench  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 11:07:52am

Monetizing hate. A disappointingly successful business model. I hope it bites them.

6 Kragar  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 11:20:13am
7 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 11:23:43am

re: #6 Kragar

Frank Gaffney Goes Birther

Yikes.

8 lawhawk  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 11:27:49am

re: #7 HappyWarrior

Yikes.

Understatement of the day

9 Kragar  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 11:29:53am

re: #8 lawhawk

Understatement of the day

Obama had secret ties to Lenin? Who knew?

10 JeffM70  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 11:29:58am

re: #3 Charles Johnson

So what's changed?

11 makeitstop  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 11:30:19am

re: #6 Kragar

Frank Gaffney Goes Birther

A bottomless fountain of crazy.

12 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 11:31:38am

re: #6 Kragar

Frank Gaffney Goes Birther

Not at all shocked. He makes a living seeing Islamic Conspiracy everywhere. At some point either delusion or profit margin are going to steer him towards the Oval Office.

13 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 11:32:12am

re: #8 lawhawk

Understatement of the day

True be that.I mean really linking Obama to Lenin. But remember it's the left not the right that is hysteric and engages in hysteria.

14 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 11:32:20am

re: #10 JeffM70

So what's changed?

Pretty much everything changed from the original vision we had. I wrote about it: [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

15 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 11:32:41am

Wait tilll Gaffney finds out that he himself is an agent of the Muslim Brotherhood.

16 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 11:34:02am

By the way, you may notice that the disclaimer that's been at the top of our comments ever since the very beginning is now gone. Nobody ever paid much attention to it, and I suddenly realized it was wasting space for no real reason.

17 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 11:34:35am

re: #6 Kragar

Frank Gaffney Goes Birther

Gaffney should read his friend Daniel Pipes' old work Conspiracy: How the Paranoid Style Flourishes and Where It Comes From.

18 Kragar  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 11:34:40am

re: #16 Charles Johnson

By the way, you may notice that the disclaimer that's been at the top of our comments ever since the very beginning is now gone. Nobody ever paid much attention to it, and I just saw it and realized it was wasting space for no real reason.

ITS THE END TIMES!

19 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 11:37:57am

re: #9 Kragar

Obama had secret ties to Lenin? Who knew?

I could link anybody in the US politics to Lenin easily, up to 1 degree of separation. Two words: Armand Hammer.

20 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 11:40:40am

re: #16 Charles Johnson

By the way, you may notice that the disclaimer that's been at the top of our comments ever since the very beginning is now gone. Nobody ever paid much attention to it, and I suddenly realized it was wasting space for no real reason.

Funny, I always liked seeing it there. It was like an "Anti-Idiot" warranty on the blog. It's like it was part of the reason to choose LGF over some of the other places - especially the warning that posting is a privilege, not a right.

Thanks for a great place, Charles.

21 lawhawk  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 11:41:58am

re: #19 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton

Trotsky lived in New York.
Obama lived in New York.

Link? Absolutely. Both lived where I live. It must be a conspiracy. /

22 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 11:42:57am

re: #21 lawhawk

Trotsky lived in New York.
Obama lived in New York.

Link? Absolutely. Both lived where I live. It must be a conspiracy. /

But then, you're Trotsky's secret grandson, so your case is too specific.
/

23 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 11:44:01am

Joe Scarborough: Why I voted for Ron Paul

24 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 11:46:12am

re: #23 NJDhockeyfan

*jaw drops*

25 erik_t  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 11:46:58am

re: #23 NJDhockeyfan

Joe Scarborough: Why I voted for Ron Paul

I literally could not give less credence to what Joe Scarborough thinks.

26 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 11:48:14am

re: #23 NJDhockeyfan

Joe Scarborough: Why I voted for Ron Paul

Interesting...

It was the first “protest” vote I’ve ever cast, and it felt … well, it felt good. Suddenly I understood a bit better why the Ross Perot or the Pat Buchanan or the Ralph Nader voters did what they did.

I thought he was smarter than that. I really don't think any of those people accomplished anything other than being spoilers for their own side.

27 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 11:49:06am

re: #26 Killgore Trout

I always thought of him as a kind of a moderate. Seems not.

28 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 11:49:57am

re: #26 Killgore Trout

Interesting...

I thought he was smarter than that. I really don't think any of those people accomplished anything other than being spoilers for their own side.

They feel like they are making a statement without looking at how they might effect the outcome of the election.

29 ArchangelMichael  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 11:51:00am

re: #14 Charles Johnson

Pretty much everything changed from the original vision we had. I wrote about it: [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Was there *ever* any pro-environmentalism or non junk-science articles posted there? Even in it's supposedly non-partisan embryonic stage?

30 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 11:54:00am

re: #29 ArchangelMichael

Was there *ever* any pro-environmentalism or non junk-science articles posted there? Even in it's supposedly non-partisan embryonic stage?

I think they had David Corn as a token liberal but that was about it.

31 wrenchwench  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 11:54:39am
32 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 11:55:29am

re: #30 Killgore Trout

No, there were actually quite a few liberals involved at the start, in addition to David Corn: Marc Cooper, Brad Friedman, and others I'm probably forgetting.

33 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 11:56:06am

re: #23 NJDhockeyfan

Joe Scarborough: Why I voted for Ron Paul

That's...embarassing...to read.

While Romney was distancing himself from Ronald Reagan, Paul was fighting with Republicans to balance the budget for the first time in a generation by going back to the gold standard and suspending all social services, but especially those that go to black welfare queens. While Santorum was supporting an unprecedented expansion of entitlement spending, Paul was warning of a great recession that would be caused by government interference in the housing market invisible unicorn farts rather than dubious financial instruments permitted by deregulation. And while Gingrich was talking about how he would build up the federal government to push his conservative agenda, Congressman Paul spent all his waking hours focused on dismembering that big government beast except for all the pork he allocates for his district, and pro-life legislation, and anti-gay legislation.

34 simoom  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 11:56:26am

re: #3 Charles Johnson

re: #2 Bulworth

Is Roger Simon still a part of PJ?

Yes.

Huh, is that the same Roger Simon who's a prominent columnist a Politico and often makes the rounds on the various politics shows?

35 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 11:58:13am

re: #34 simoom

Huh, is that the same Roger Simon who's a prominent columnist a Politico and often makes the rounds on the various politics shows?

No, different guy. PJ Media's is Roger L. Simon.

36 erik_t  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 12:02:43pm

re: #33 The Ghost of a Flea

It shows an astonishingly lazy though process, which I guess he admits right at the very beginning.

If you're going to think so little about your votes, you'd probably be doing us all a favor if you stopped voting.

37 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 12:03:58pm

News from the fashion world... Suit of Armor Hoodie

38 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 12:04:17pm

There's a lot of delusion about Ron Paul out there. To hear his supporters talk, you'd think he was pure as snow and never one to engage in demagoguery.

39 lawhawk  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 12:05:14pm

re: #22 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton

But then, you're Trotsky's secret grandson, so your case is too specific.
/

I could be.... / (but then again, some of my relatives hail from the Ukraine so anything is possible)

40 b_sharp  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 12:05:39pm

Imagine a culture different from yours.
Imagine a growing resentment in that other culture - a resentment against arrogance, a resentment against loss of control of their own destiny.
Imagine an angry few from that culture willing to lie to themselves and others about how to regain their destiny.
Imagine those few joining together to kill for their goals.
Imagine those angry few wanting the deaths of an entire culture.

Now imagine another group with beliefs different from your own but masked to look like yours.
Imagine in it a growing fear and its bastard offspring hate.
Imagine an hateful few willing to lie to themselves and others about how to stop those angry murderous few.
Imagine those hateful few wanting the deaths of an entire culture.

Now imagine there are no differences between the hate and the anger.

41 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 12:07:06pm

re: #39 lawhawk

I could be... / (but then again, some of my relatives hail from the Ukraine so anything is possible)

Trotsky was from the Ukraine? Did not know that.

42 b_sharp  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 12:07:26pm

re: #23 NJDhockeyfan

Joe Scarborough: Why I voted for Ron Paul

All the important decisions should made on a gut feeling.
The brain is just excess baggage.

43 b_sharp  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 12:10:28pm

re: #33 The Ghost of a Flea

That's...embarassing...to read.

But RP is a prophet, he predicted what others could not!
Well, except they did. A 14 year old could have predicted the recession.

44 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 12:10:37pm

More Republicans should follow Joe Scarborough's example and vote for Ron Paul. I'm in favor of this.

45 b_sharp  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 12:11:37pm

re: #37 NJDhockeyfan

News from the fashion world... Suit of Armor Hoodie

What we need is someone to design a stylish poop bag.

46 b_sharp  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 12:12:14pm

Bugger off I tell you.

47 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 12:13:05pm

re: #37 NJDhockeyfan

News from the fashion world... Suit of Armor Hoodie

Proof-tested against nerf swords, I presume.

48 makeitstop  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 12:13:28pm

re: #37 NJDhockeyfan

News from the fashion world... Suit of Armor Hoodie

Yeah, not rocking that.

49 b_sharp  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 12:13:43pm

re: #47 The Ghost of a Flea

Proof-tested against nerf swords, I presume.

Nerd swords or Nerf swords?

50 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 12:13:47pm

If only we listened to Ron Paul. Yes if only we listened to the guy whose economic policies are the pornographic fantasies of the Von Mises Institute. A man whose nickname is "Dr.No" due to the fact he opposes everything except pork for his district. It's too bad he has a son because the cult of Ron will now become the cult of Rand and Rand in some ways is nuttier than Daddy.

51 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 12:17:20pm

re: #50 HappyWarrior

If only we listened to Ron Paul. Yes if only we listened to the guy whose economic policies are the pornographic fantasies of the Von Mises Institute. A man whose nickname is "Dr.No" due to the fact he opposes everything except pork for his district. It's too bad he has a son because the cult of Ron will now become the cult of Rand and Rand in some ways is nuttier than Daddy.

Ron has sufficiently self-presentation to make some of his nuttiness sound superficially reasonable.

Rand does not.

I will be interested to see if he lasts here in the hyper-crony-ism of Kentucky politics.

52 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 12:19:48pm

re: #51 The Ghost of a Flea

Ron has sufficiently self-presentation to make some of his nuttiness sound superficially reasonable.

Rand does not.

I will be interested to see if he lasts here in the hyper-crony-ism of Kentucky politics.

Not that familiar with Kentucky politics but I tend to agree. Wouldn't be shocked though if he carries Dad's mantle next election especially if Romney loses.

53 Talking Point Detective  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 12:24:09pm

I'm thinking it may be time to move to that cabin in the woods soon:

Michigan gun enthusiasts protest arrest in Birmingham

Image: pb-120612-gun-protest-jm-01.photoblog900.jpg

[Link: photoblog.msnbc.msn.com...]

Only problem is I'll have to find a woods not inhabited by gun-loving survivalists.

54 simoom  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 12:27:23pm

Romney has this weird obfuscated answer he gives in the rare instances where he gets asked what a Romney solution to our nation's healthcare woes would do about preexisting conditions. From his Halperin interview last month:

[Link: thepage.time.com...]

Halperin: And would individuals buying on their own, not through getting through their employers, would they have the same kind of protections? For instance if you get it through your employer, generally you can’t be denied for yourself or your family, care for preexisting conditions. They can’t charge you more based on your age or any other factor. Would those guarantees, would those protections exist for people if they bought it on their own under your plan?

Romney: Well you know what? I like the idea of having a competition and having people be able to purchase what is most attractive to them. And I do believe that one of the issues — I think I describe both of those issues in the plan that I put out—for instance, the idea of preexisting conditions. If people have been continuously insured, and then they decide to change jobs or change locations, they should not be denied coverage if they go to a new place or have to get a new policy. So people continuously insured should be able to get new insurance. Therefore, those that have developed a condition while they were insured and then change jobs, lose jobs, go to a new place, apply for new insurance would be guaranteed issue in that new entity so that you don’t have to have people worried about a preexisting condition preventing them from becoming insured.

Of course Halperin didn't follow-up incredulously, as he should have, with something like, "Ah, so the answer to my question is you'd restore things back to the previous status quo, where people with preexisting conditions without insurance or whose insurance lapses are screwed. Good to know."

The reason I bring that up is he pushed this line in a speech again today:

ROMNEY: So let’s say someone has been continuously insured and they develop a serious condition. And let’s say they lose their jobs or they change jobs or they move and go to a different place, I don’t want them to be denied insurance because they have some pre-existing conditions. So we’re going to have to make sure that the law that we replace Obamacare with, ensures that people who have a pre-existing condition, who have been insured in the past, are able to get insurance in the future so they don’t have to worry about that condition keeping them from getting the kind of health care they deserve.

Now this one seems a little more iffy to me. He references the "continuously insured" line again at the start as a prerequisite, but then that last sentence almost seems to imply he might do something about lapsed coverage... though I guess that makes no sense, as why even bring up "continuously insured" again. More obfuscation.

55 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 12:27:23pm

re: #53 Talking Point Detective

I'm thinking it may be time to move to that cabin in the woods soon:

Image: pb-120612-gun-protest-jm-01.photoblog900.jpg

[Link: photoblog.msnbc.msn.com...]

Only problem is I'll have to find a woods not inhabited by gun-loving survivalists.

Don't mess with the blonde.

56 Talking Point Detective  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 12:28:54pm

re: #55 NJDhockeyfan

Don't mess with the blonde.

Actually, in her case I might make an exception to my opinions on gun nuts.

57 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 12:30:03pm

re: #54 simoom

Romney has this weird obfuscated answer he gives in the rare instances where he gets asked what a Romney solution to our nation's healthcare woes would do about preexisting conditions. From his Halperin interview last month:

[Link: thepage.time.com...]

Of course Halperin didn't follow-up incredulously, as he should have, with something like, "Ah, so the answer to my question is you'd restore things back to previous status quo, where people with preexisting conditions without insurance or whose insurance lapses are screwed. Good to know."

The reason I bring that up is he pushed this line in a speech again today:

Now this one seems a little more iffy to me. He references the "continuously insured" line again at the start as a prerequisite, but then that last sentence almost seems to imply he might do something about lapsed coverage... though I guess that makes no sense, as why even bring up "continuously insured" again. More obfuscation.

Romney being Romney. Vague answers to important questions.

58 b_sharp  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 12:30:11pm

re: #55 NJDhockeyfan

Don't mess with the blonde.

What blonde?

59 Talking Point Detective  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 12:30:58pm

re: #58 Nucking Futs is the Place to Be.

What blonde?

Image: pb-120612-gun-protest-jm-0.photoblog900.jpg

60 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 12:31:54pm

re: #59 Talking Point Detective

Image: pb-120612-gun-protest-jm-0.photoblog900.jpg

Nice gun rack.

61 Talking Point Detective  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 12:32:05pm

re: #59 Talking Point Detective

Image: pb-120612-gun-protest-jm-0.photoblog900.jpg

Photo caption for what that dude on her right is thinking?

62 Kragar  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 12:32:25pm

New Report: Penn State Officials Thought It Was ‘Humane’ Not to Report Sandusky

It’s sort of hard to believe that folks could have behaved even more poorly in the events surrounding the coverup of former Penn State football coach Jerry Sandusky’s alleged sexual abuse and assault of children he met through his Second Mile charity. But as his trial is underway, it appears my beliefs have been confounded: Pennsylvania’s attorney general is now suggesting that former Penn State vice president Gary Schultz kept a file on Sandusky, and that in emails between him and former Penn State president Graham Spanier suggest that university officials thought it would be more “humane” not to report Sandusky than to report him. The full report from a local CBS station is here:

63 Kragar  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 12:33:08pm

re: #61 Talking Point Detective

Photo caption for what that dude on her right is thinking?

"Why on earth did I buy these awful orange shoes?"

64 Talking Point Detective  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 12:33:12pm

re: #60 NJDhockeyfan

Nice gun rack.

Photo caption for what that dude on her right is thinking?

Wow! You are quick.

65 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 12:34:31pm

re: #62 Kragar

New Report: Penn State Officials Thought It Was ‘Humane’ Not to Report Sandusky

Not humane? What the fuck. The guy was accused of raping little boys. If there's even the slightest allegation, they should have looked into it considering how serious a crime that is.

66 Kragar  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 12:38:03pm

re: #65 HappyWarrior

Not humane? What the fuck. The guy was accused of raping little boys. If there's even the slightest allegation, they should have looked into it considering how serious a crime that is.

But it would have disrupted the Football program!

67 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 12:40:12pm

re: #66 Kragar

But it would have disrupted the Football program!

Yep. Sigh, yet another byproduct of our schools valuing sports to a fault.

68 erik_t  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 12:45:28pm

re: #67 HappyWarrior

Yep. Sigh, yet another byproduct of our schools valuing sports to a fault.

Humans have a long and storied history of doing terrible, terrible things in a misguided attempt to protect what they love. That it was sports in this instance, rather than Invisible Sky Dude or whatever, is really tangential to the situation.

69 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 12:46:52pm

re: #68 erik_t

Humans have a long and storied history of doing terrible, terrible things in a misguided attempt to protect what they love. That it was sports in this instance, rather than Invisible Sky Dude or whatever, is really tangential to the situation.

Indeed. Was horrifying I gotta say to read the Sandusky report.

70 engineer cat  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 12:50:16pm

my QA refuses to test for non-earth origin IP addresses

this is ok for now but will surely come back to bite us within a century or two...

71 Kragar  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 12:51:17pm

re: #68 erik_t

Humans have a long and storied history of doing terrible, terrible things in a misguided attempt to protect what they love. That it was sports in this instance, rather than Invisible Sky Dude or whatever, is really tangential to the situation.

Gods demand sacrifice.

In this case, they sacrificed kids to keep sports happy.

72 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 12:52:00pm

re: #53 Talking Point Detective

I'm thinking it may be time to move to that cabin in the woods soon:

Image: pb-120612-gun-protest-jm-01.photoblog900.jpg

[Link: photoblog.msnbc.msn.com...]

Only problem is I'll have to find a woods not inhabited by gun-loving survivalists.

Theoretically I support the 2nd Amendment, but I can't be in a room with a stranger carrying a weapon. I actually have less of a problem with open carry than concealed...but I'm permanently marked by living in the Third World. When I see people with semi-automatic rifles, I will never be able to think "nice citizen going about business." I think about the fact that I have seen firearms used arbitrarily up close and personal.

73 engineer cat  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 12:52:10pm

re: #61 Talking Point Detective

Photo caption for what that dude on her right is thinking?

i dunno what the dude on her right is thinking but the lips and nail polish scare me more than the gun

74 wrenchwench  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 12:55:06pm
75 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 12:56:47pm

re: #74 wrenchwench

[Embedded content]

What's scary is the first mindset is pretty much the Ron Paul way of looking at emergencies and what Romney panders to.

76 lawhawk  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 12:57:04pm

re: #74 wrenchwench

Mitt could pass for Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg.

77 Coracle  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 12:58:52pm

re: #60 NJDhockeyfan

Nice gun rack.

Unnecessary.

Yeah, I'm in a foul mood. I'm tired of women of any side being denigrated that way from word one.

78 Kragar  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 12:59:11pm

re: #76 lawhawk

Mitt could pass for Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg.

Nope, Zorg had a personality.

79 Gus  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 1:00:05pm

re: #76 lawhawk

Mitt could pass for Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg.

Milton Francisco Augusto Howell the 3rd

80 Talking Point Detective  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 1:00:06pm

re: #72 The Ghost of a Flea

Theoretically I support the 2nd Amendment, but I can't be in a room with a stranger carrying a weapon. I actually have less of a problem with open carry than concealed...but I'm permanently marked by living in the Third World. When I see people with semi-automatic rifles, I will never be able to think "nice citizen going about business." I think about the fact that I have seen firearms used arbitrarily up close and personal.

I find it hard to believe that there's any possible explanation for that behavior other than fetishism - or just tribalistic behavior that for fairly random reasons gets focused on guns.

I might disagree with reasonable people on issues related to the 2nd amendment - such as interpretation of "a well-regulated miliia" - but parading around town with automatic weapons, let alone multiple fucking automatic weapons, is simply a sign that someone is imbalanced. I'm not usually that categorical about issues, but I honestly don't see any other legit explanations.

81 Gus  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 1:01:12pm

re: #74 wrenchwench

[Embedded content]

Faith based fire departments.

82 wrenchwench  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 1:01:31pm

re: #76 lawhawk

Mitt could pass for Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg.

Damn it, even when I've seen the movie they go over my head...

83 Talking Point Detective  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 1:02:00pm

re: #77 Coracle

Unnecessary.

Yeah, I'm in a foul mood. I'm tired of women of any side being denigrated that way from word one.

No doubt that it's unnecessary. Sorry if you were offended.

84 Talking Point Detective  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 1:03:22pm

re: #72 The Ghost of a Flea

Theoretically I support the 2nd Amendment, but I can't be in a room with a stranger carrying a weapon. I actually have less of a problem with open carry than concealed...but I'm permanently marked by living in the Third World. When I see people with semi-automatic rifles, I will never be able to think "nice citizen going about business." I think about the fact that I have seen firearms used arbitrarily up close and personal.

Out of curiosity - where in the 3rd world?

85 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 1:03:50pm

re: #80 Talking Point Detective

I find it hard to believe that there's any possible explanation for that behavior other than fetishism - or just tribalistic behavior that for fairly random reasons gets focused on guns.

I might disagree with reasonable people on issues related to the 2nd amendment - such as interpretation of "a well-regulated miliia" - but parading around town with automatic weapons, let alone multiple fucking automatic weapons, is simply a sign that someone is imbalanced. I'm not usually that categorical about issues, but I honestly don't see any other legit explanations.

There's that and all these candidates who like to pose with their guns as if it proves they're a tough guy or lady. I got no issues with gunowners as a whole. Hell my best friend has many and my grandfather had a ton of guns but the fetishization of guns for political purposes freaks me out too.

86 Kragar  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 1:04:07pm

re: #80 Talking Point Detective

I find it hard to believe that there's any possible explanation for that behavior other than fetishism - or just tribalistic behavior that for fairly random reasons gets focused on guns.

I might disagree with reasonable people on issues related to the 2nd amendment - such as interpretation of "a well-regulated miliia" - but parading around town with automatic weapons, let alone multiple fucking automatic weapons, is simply a sign that someone is imbalanced. I'm not usually that categorical about issues, but I honestly don't see any other legit explanations.

Well regulated is just big government obstructionism. When Mitt takes over, everyone who can afford one can have a militia of their very own.

87 Decatur Deb  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 1:05:04pm

Don't think it's very Christian of the chritisanmingle.com ad up top to be offering to help old married guys get a date.

(And if you walk around with a magazine locked and loaded you are really too stupid to bear arms.)

88 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 1:06:40pm

re: #84 Talking Point Detective

Out of curiosity - where in the 3rd world?

Afghanistan, Pakistan.

Lots of Kalashnikovs around--in the tribal areas they're like manhood fetishes. Seeing them meant either there was a wedding or a feud. The former meant accidental shootings, the latter intentional ones.

89 Coracle  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 1:06:58pm

re: #83 Talking Point Detective

I appreciate that. There's enough noise out there drowning out the signal. Every sexualization, every attack on appearance, is an attempt to marginalize and minimize the opinion of the person being attacked. And these attacks, these masked-as-humor quips and put downs are reserved primarily for women, and secondarily for various other 'other' appearances.

90 engineer cat  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 1:07:00pm

re: #57 HappyWarrior

Romney: Well you’d see a very dramatic change in the perspective of small businesses, entrepreneurs, middle-size businesses, and perhaps even some large multinationals. They’d say, you know what, America looks like a good place to invest again, a good place to take risk, a good place to hire again....
...I can tell you that over a period of four years, by virtue of the policies that we’d put in place, we’d get the unemployment rate down to 6%

but they way they'd do that is what scares me

yeah, sure, we can be "competitive" - just as long as most americans realize that that means they'll have to eat shit economically

and i'm sure in the end that's what we'll be forced to accept

91 engineer cat  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 1:08:43pm

re: #72 The Ghost of a Flea

Theoretically I support the 2nd Amendment, but I can't be in a room with a stranger carrying a weapon. I actually have less of a problem with open carry than concealed...but I'm permanently marked by living in the Third World. When I see people with semi-automatic rifles, I will never be able to think "nice citizen going about business." I think about the fact that I have seen firearms used arbitrarily up close and personal.

an armed society is a polite dead society

92 Decatur Deb  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 1:10:46pm

re: #90 engineer cat

Romney: Well you’d see a very dramatic change in the perspective of small businesses, entrepreneurs, middle-size businesses, and perhaps even some large multinationals. They’d say, you know what, America looks like a good place to invest again, a good place to take risk, a good place to hire again...
...I can tell you that over a period of four years, by virtue of the policies that we’d put in place, we’d get the unemployment rate down to 6%

but they way they'd do that is what scares me

yeah, sure, we can be "competitive" - just as long as most americans realize that that means they'll have to eat shit economically

and i'm sure in the end that's what we'll be forced to accept

There's a real derpdrop in Romney's claim. He says he can bring the unemployment rate down by 2.1% in 6 years. Obama has brought it down from the post-Bush peak by much more in 3 years.

93 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 1:10:52pm

I think to far too many Americans guns are like toys. I'm on record of thinking bringing concealed arms to places of business especially bars is just a recipe for trouble. Booze and firearms, yeah that will end well.

94 The Left  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 1:11:57pm

re: #89 Coracle

I appreciate that. There's enough noise out there drowning out the signal. Every sexualization, every attack on appearance, is an attempt to marginalize and minimize the opinion of the person being attacked. And these attacks, these masked-as-humor quips and put downs are reserved primarily for women, and secondarily for various other 'other' appearances.

This times 1000.

95 Decatur Deb  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 1:15:09pm

re: #86 Kragar

Well regulated is just big government obstructionism. When Mitt takes over, everyone who can afford one can have a militia of their very own.

Xe dawn of Xe private militia has already broken.

96 Digital Display  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 1:15:31pm

Today is my 4th Anniversary at LGF.
30,000+ plus comments.. I know..I talk to much.
For the life of me I cannot remember the link that brought me here and started reading...I could not get registered but I knew everybody here from reading daily..I was kind of pissed so 4 years ago this day I was ready to shut down my laptop and go home from work and suddenly registration opened up.
It was pretty cool for me..I already knew Lizards from reading them for so long..It has been my pleasure to meet and interact with so many different people here.
There are so many stories I'll post in the next day or so of my blogging life
at LGF. I have so many stories and have grown so much as a Man and Blogger because of LGF.
Thank you Charles

97 wrenchwench  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 1:16:38pm

re: #96 Digital Display

{{Hoops}}

98 Talking Point Detective  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 1:17:02pm

re: #89 Coracle

I appreciate that. There's enough noise out there drowning out the signal. Every sexualization, every attack on appearance, is an attempt to marginalize and minimize the opinion of the person being attacked. And these attacks, these masked-as-humor quips and put downs are reserved primarily for women, and secondarily for various other 'other' appearances.

No doubt.

I tried to think of an excuse for participating - but couldn't come up with any. I do think that it's a reasonable question to ask when or if that type of joking is defensible - because I think that it isn't inherently (necessarily) meant to be marginalizing or put downs, but on the other hand we all should be responsible for the impact of our actions no matter out intentions.

99 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 1:18:39pm

re: #91 engineer cat

an armed society is a polite dead society

I hear people say that phrase (the unrevised version) to be clever or glib, but I find it absolutely chilling. How many murders start with someone feeling aggrieved or insulted?

100 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 1:19:35pm

re: #53 Talking Point Detective

I think the kid read the following bit from this website and got himself into trouble:

4) Brandishing and disturbing the peace are not an offense while lawfully openly carrying a firearm.

ADVISORY NOTE: Though this section on disturbing the peace does not deal with firearms, due to the nature of this code, this law has been cited by officers to suppress or discourage lawful open carry. Since a person who is not licensed to carry concealed MUST open carry their firearms on foot in order to avoid criminal charge, nor is there any duty for anyone licensed to conceal their handgun, open carry is not disorderly conduct. The open carrying of firearms is not by itself threatening, nor does it cause a hazardous or physically offensive condition.

BRANDISHING Opinion No. 7101 February 6, 2002: …In the absence of any reported Michigan appellate court decisions defining "brandishing," it is appropriate to rely upon dictionary definitions…..the term brandishing is defined as: "1. To wave or flourish menacingly, as a weapon. 2. To display ostentatiously. A menacing or defiant wave or flourish." This definition comports with the meaning ascribed to this term by courts of other jurisdictions…the court recognized that in federal sentencing guidelines, "brandishing" a weapon is defined to mean "that the weapon was pointed or waved about, or displayed in a threatening manner." Applying these definitions to your question, it is clear that a reserve police officer, regardless whether he or she qualifies as a "peace officer," when carrying a handgun in a holster in plain view, is not waving or displaying the firearm in a threatening manner. Thus, such conduct does not constitute brandishing a firearm in violation of section 234e of the Michigan Penal Code. It is my opinion, therefore, that…by carrying a handgun in a holster that is in plain view, does not violate section 234e of the Michigan Penal Code, which prohibits brandishing a firearm in public.

5) A person openly carrying a firearm on foot in a legal manner when approached by a police officer and questioned where the only reason for the questioning is because of the openly carried firearm need not give that officer their name and address. No license or ID is required to openly carry a firearm. It is your option to provide ID/CPL.

ADVISORY NOTE: Each situation is different. We recommend you cooperate with all lawful questions and requests. Ask the officer if the reason you are being detained is for the legal open carry of a firearm. After giving your name and address, ask if you are free to go, ask if you are being detained. If they continue to ask questions about ID and why you are carrying a gun, repeat the question, am I free to go? Am I being detained? If the situation escalates ask for a supervisor. Remember the officer can arrest you for anything, don’t resist the arrest. After an illegal arrest you may have legal options you can employ.

There's a world of difference between being technically correct and common sense. The police have every reason to want to identify an 18 year old kid walking around with a rifle. Refusing to cooperate and give them your ID simply because you don't think you have to is just asking for trouble.

101 darthstar  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 1:19:47pm

Really? We now have to follow the adventures of Zimmerman's fair and delicate bride?

102 Talking Point Detective  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 1:20:42pm

re: #88 The Ghost of a Flea

Afghanistan, Pakistan.

Lots of Kalashnikovs around--in the tribal areas they're like manhood fetishes. Seeing them meant either there was a wedding or a feud. The former meant accidental shootings, the latter intentional ones.

If I might ask - what were you doing there?

I was trying to figure out how living in the 3rd world might influence your opinion - as traveling in the 3rd world hasn't influenced me one way or the other.

103 Coracle  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 1:23:10pm

re: #98 Talking Point Detective

I've seen it left and right. There's no MBF here. I've seen it here and on sites farther left and right. Attacks on Coulter's Malkin's, or Palin's appearance and sexuality are no better than those on Pelosi or Maddow or Garofalo. That that strategy is still affective is a smudge on us all.

Ok. Done with my high horse.

104 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 1:24:57pm

re: #103 Coracle

I've seen it left and right. There's no MBF here. I've seen it here and on sites farther left and right. Attacks on Coulter's Malkin's, or Palin's appearance and sexuality are no better than those on Pelosi or Maddow or Garofalo. That that strategy is still affective is a smudge on us all.

Ok. Done with my high horse.

I don't care how much static it brings, I'm never going to stop mentioning the fact that Scott Walker's great grandmother fucked a flat fish.

105 wrenchwench  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 1:25:34pm

re: #103 Coracle

Ok. Done with my high horse.

Speciesist!

106 Big Steve  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 1:25:41pm

Well son of a gun.....the Creation Museum is now got an advertising billboard in Houston.....Ky. biblical museum ad in Houston

107 wrenchwench  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 1:25:48pm

re: #104 goddamnedfrank

I don't care how much static it brings, I'm never going to stop mentioning the fact that Scott Walker's great grandmother fucked a flat fish.

Speciesist!

108 lawhawk  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 1:26:30pm

re: #101 darthstar

Booked for perjury in lying to the court about their finances. I see that as an addendum to the rest of the case, and not particularly fascinating in and of itself.

109 wrenchwench  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 1:27:11pm

The dog is a little creepy, but the cat does a good job.

(Yes, I have speciesist tendencies.)

110 Kragar  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 1:29:30pm

re: #101 darthstar

Really? We now have to follow the adventures of Zimmerman's fair and delicate bride?

[Embedded content]

What did she get arrested for?

N/m. Perjury

111 Coracle  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 1:32:21pm

re: #109 wrenchwench

From the looks of it, that cat really wants to vote. All that's stopping him is the lack of opposable thumbs. I guess the Veritas folks are just one evolutionary jump away from being able to prove their fraud case.

112 Kragar  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 1:38:25pm

NOTE TO ROMNEY: The Federal Government Does Fund Teachers, Firefighters, And Police

ROMNEY: Of course, teachers and firemen and policemen are hired at the local level and also by states. The federal government doesn’t pay for teachers, firefighters or policemen. So obviously that’s completely absurd.

But Romney’s comment demonstrates a disturbing lack of understanding of both federal funding and his own published plans. While it is true that teachers, firefighters, and police are hired at the local level, a significant portion of their funding, recruiting, and training comes from the federal government.

Here are just some of the ways the federal government funds:

113 lawhawk  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 1:41:12pm

re: #100 goddamnedfrank

Note too that the advisory opinion is just that - an advisory opinion - not actual case law. It's the interpretation given by the AG at the time, and is subject to review. FWIW, the AG for that opinion: Jen Granholm, who later became Michigan governor.

That particular ruling addresses a reserve officer holstering a handgun (and I'll go to the original source, rather than rely on second hand regurgitations)

It isn't addressing a private citizen carrying a semiauto weapon, though it's not unexpected that someone might try to rely on that as applicable to private citizen carrying any kind of firearm. You just can't rely on that as relating to the acts of a private citizen or firearms other than holstered handguns.

114 dragonfire1981  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 1:51:55pm

re: #112 Kragar

NOTE TO ROMNEY: The Federal Government Does Fund Teachers, Firefighters, And Police

Wow. A man who wants to run the entire United States Government does not understand some very basic facts about it?

I mean think about this for a second. You go in for a job interview and demonstrate a remarkable lack of knowledge like this. Do you think you have a chance in hell of getting the job?

The sad thing is, in the case of Mitt Romney, he actually does.

115 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 1:52:06pm

re: #102 Talking Point Detective

If I might ask - what were you doing there?

I was trying to figure out how living in the 3rd world might influence your opinion - as traveling in the 3rd world hasn't influenced me one way or the other.

Part of it is that my Dad studied nomads who lived in the tribal regions. I spent time with them as a kid and visited them as a teen and adult.

Rather like gypsies, they were people who had a niche, but weren't very well liked. Lots of threats and intimidation with the aforementioned weapons, both from authorities and private citizens. Also a window into local tribal feuds, et cetera, as they moved around. Since these groups were also (nominally) Sufi, as conservative Islamists got more power they experienced more and more threats. Most groups are now settled--partly by force, partly because it's too dangerous to roam.

The other part is having kin who are Ahmadiyya, and thus acceptable targets for violence...and whom the legitimate authorities won't stand up for. Basically, I've had a lot of guns brandished and/or pointed at me and people I know.

I'm not really advocating a position here. I will straight up say that I'm a bit traumatized when it comes to gun violence.

...It's just that US gun culture is really strange to me. The fetishism and power issues are there, but there's this entire level of philosophical perfume--the abstract idea of the self-defense scenario and the entitlement to carry a firearm "just in case"--like it's somehow noble to do so.

Shorter version: my experience elsewhere in the world is that carrying a gun (outside of say, a hunting expedition) signals I'm going to kill someone or something. "In the USA, there's this whole added semiotic tangle of "Maybe I have to kill someone, but really I'm exercising a personal freedom by bearing a weapon that I could use to kill someone and you should respect that."

116 engineer cat  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 1:53:09pm

re: #92 Decatur Deb

There's a real derpdrop in Romney's claim. He says he can bring the unemployment rate down by 2.1% in 6 years. Obama has brought it down from the post-Bush peak by much more in 3 years.

but in obama's case it doesn't count because he did it by putting all unemployed conservatives in those socialist re-education camps

117 Decatur Deb  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 1:55:30pm

re: #116 engineer cat

but in obama's case it doesn't count because he did it by putting all unemployed conservatives in those socialist re-education camps

But..but..think of the guard jobs, and the camp cooks.

(Note that I typo'ed '6 years'. Should read '4'.)

118 Decatur Deb  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 1:56:22pm

Guests enroute--off to start the grill.

119 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 1:57:52pm

re: #37 NJDhockeyfan

News from the fashion world... Suit of Armor Hoodie

Not just for Halloween anymore!

121 Kragar  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 1:58:54pm
122 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 2:01:27pm

re: #112 Kragar

Take it another way- He knows and he will end those grants. Maybe some background is good-I remember the big 100,000 police push during Clinton.
Some (even in LE circles) decried that as a federalization of local law enforcement as it played out. Slate had a very critical article.

LAPD got 50 officers via one of those grants. For perspective LAPD has about 9800 sworn officers and 3000 dedicated civilian personnel. So that's well under .5% if you count the civilians. How much of this is 9/11 funding I'm not sure. Not much to get excited about here.

123 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 2:03:51pm

re: #120 Killgore Trout

That's really rare. And I suspect an accurate harbinger for his upcoming bond hearing. Methinks that's a pro forma aka No F&*%@#g Way hearing.

124 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 2:04:14pm

re: #80 Talking Point Detective

I find it hard to believe that there's any possible explanation for that behavior other than fetishism - or just tribalistic behavior that for fairly random reasons gets focused on guns.

I might disagree with reasonable people on issues related to the 2nd amendment - such as interpretation of "a well-regulated miliia" - but parading around town with automatic weapons, let alone multiple fucking automatic weapons, is simply a sign that someone is imbalanced. I'm not usually that categorical about issues, but I honestly don't see any other legit explanations.

I have a girlfriend who is only scared of guns that look like military guns. I have to wonder how many people would be more comfortable if the guns these people were carrying had nice wood grain stocks and looked like an English Gentlemen's Rifle. If they were wearing what we think of as traditional hunting garb and not camo.

No matter how much education she get's my girlfriend still has a knee jerk fear reaction to a military looking rifle--even tho she knows intellectually it is still a basic rifle.

125 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 2:07:41pm

re: #124 ggt

Is your girlfriend a California State Senator?

Just kidding, but here there are lots of banned guns that look military, and others that are more a hunters or competitors setup, but the same rate of fire, capacity and caliber.

126 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 2:08:33pm

re: #123 Daniel Ballard

That's really rare. And I suspect an accurate harbinger for his upcoming bond hearing. Methinks that's a pro forma aka No F&*%@#g Way hearing.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that really unusual.

127 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 2:10:18pm

re: #125 Daniel Ballard

Is your girlfriend a California State Senator?

Just kidding, but here there are lots of banned guns that look military, and others that are more a hunters or competitors setup, but the same rate of fire, capacity and caliber.

No she is from Chicago. I think there is a vision of the old "shotgun" that people actually find comforting --everything else is scary.

I used to think that ignorance of basic firearm operation was the reason, but she has been thru training courses and still has the reaction.

128 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 2:11:50pm

Ahhh, I think the teenager is "talking" with a girl. Every once in a while he has to go outside to talk on his cell phone.

teehee!

129 engineer cat  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 2:13:47pm

"Maybe I have to kill someone, but really I'm exercising a personal freedom by bearing a weapon that I could use to kill someone and you should respect that."

i wonder what these people would think if i also carried a weapon and brandished at them demanding that they stop disrespecting King Zorg the Omnipotent Toad immediately?

130 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 2:13:48pm
131 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 2:17:34pm
132 darthstar  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 2:23:19pm

Since this is a Geller thread.

Image: 532884_474327089263416_1556960373_n.jpg

133 Lidane  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 2:28:39pm

re: #62 Kragar

New Report: Penn State Officials Thought It Was ‘Humane’ Not to Report Sandusky

WTF? Were they employing Vatican logic or something?

Fuck humane. He was molesting children. Arrest him and throw him in jail, period. Who cares about football when real kids are getting hurt?

134 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 2:29:50pm

re: #133 Lidane

WTF? Were they employing Vatican logic or something?

Fuck humane. He was molesting children. Arrest him and throw him in jail, period. Who cares about football when real kids are getting hurt?

You are more humane than I.

135 Lidane  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 2:31:10pm

re: #134 ggt

You are more humane than I.

Not really. I've been told that prisons are the worst places for child molesters and child rapists. I figure the actual law should be put to use first.

136 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 2:33:50pm

re: #96 Digital Display
Hoops!
Ha ha ha you registered on the 48th birthday.
Oh crap I'm 52 now... LOL.

137 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 2:35:35pm

idiots

"A petition to remove references to evolution from high-school textbooks claimed victory last month after the Ministry of Education, Science and Technology (MEST) revealed that many of the publishers would produce revised editions that exclude examples of the evolution of the horse or of avian ancestor Archaeopteryx. The move has alarmed biologists, who say that they were not consulted. “The ministry just sent the petition out to the publishing companies and let them judge,” says Dayk Jang, an evolutionary scientist at Seoul National University."

138 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 2:39:21pm

re: #133 Lidane

WTF? Were they employing Vatican logic or something?

Fuck humane. He was molesting children. Arrest him and throw him in jail, period. Who cares about football when real kids are getting hurt?

Humane to whom?

I always thought that you employed mercy to the weaker first?

139 b_sharp  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 2:43:26pm

re: #61 Talking Point Detective

Photo caption for what that dude on her right is thinking?

I love being able to carry my penis in a holster.

I wonder if that babe likes my strap-on?

140 Kragar  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 2:44:02pm

Bryan Fischer: Liberty means being allowed to discriminate

Freedom of religion? Gone. Freedom of association? Gone. All in the interests of promoting the normalizing of aberrant sexual behavior.

Bottom line: America must choose between homosexuality and liberty because we cannot have both. Every advance of the homosexual agenda comes at the expense of religious liberty. If gay marriage becomes the norm, it will be the end of the First Amendment. It will become a legal nullity.

There will be no freedom of religion. If your religious values conflict with the precious agenda of advancing sexual deviancy, your religious values will mean nothing. In fact, you will punished, as Elaine Huguenin was, for holding them and and acting on them.

Freedom of speech - gone. You will not even be allowed to speak in defense of natural marriage and in opposition to the normalizing of homosexual behavior.

I have written before that not all discrimination is bad. Discrimination for the wrong reasons is bad, but discrimination for the right reasons is good. This is the standard Martin Luther King, Jr. set for us when he looked forward to the day his children would “live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.”

So even for Rev. King, discrimination on the basis of character is perfectly proper and consistent with the goals of the civil rights movement.

Sexual conduct is one of the expressions of the “content of character.”

141 wrenchwench  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 2:45:56pm

re: #136 Daniel Ballard

Hoops!
Ha ha ha you registered on the 48th birthday.
Oh crap I'm 52 now... LOL.

Happy birthday!

142 engineer cat  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 2:53:11pm

An Appeal For Judgement From The Blog Manners Jury

is this offensive?

note to wimmens:

mens likes the long hair

hair am sexxxy

143 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 2:56:14pm

re: #140 Kragar

Bryan Fischer: Liberty means being allowed to discriminate

So the logic pretzel straightens out to:

If the government permits things that a religion finds immoral, the it's a restriction of religious freedom.

Now let's go look at the list of what's immoral according to Bryan Fischer...

Huh. Funny how protecting religious freedom means trampling everybody else that doesn't believe exactly what he does. Almost like it's not about freedom but instead about imposing the desires of the few on a larger subject population.

...and I'm not even to try and address that abuse of Dr.King's legacy. Fischer should just be grateful that I too gentle (and lazy) to follow through with my first impulse to knock his teeth out.

144 Mocking Jay  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 2:59:25pm

I just saw photos of the Miami face-eating victim. They cannot be unseen. Holy crap...

145 b_sharp  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 2:59:59pm

re: #144 It's a cookbook!

I just saw photos of the Miami face-eating victim. They cannot be unseen. Holy crap...

Why did you look?

146 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 3:00:14pm

re: #120 Killgore Trout

Zimmerman's wife arrested, accused of perjury

I understand that there is a legal reason for this, but this seems like some sort of revenge on the prosecutors' part.

147 Mocking Jay  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 3:00:31pm

re: #145 Nucking Futs is the Place to Be.

Why did you look?

Because I am stupid.

148 gwangung  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 3:01:34pm

re: #146 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton

Not really. Lying to the court will ALWAYS put you in hot water.

149 b_sharp  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 3:02:08pm

re: #147 It's a cookbook!

Because I am stupid.

The pull of the car accident. The macabre fascinates us.

150 b_sharp  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 3:02:37pm

When is the LGF talk like a pirate day?

151 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 3:03:02pm

re: #140 Kragar

Bryan Fischer: Liberty means being allowed to discriminate

Not when you're offering public services (for example).

152 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 3:03:20pm

re: #150 Nucking Futs is the Place to Be.

When is talk like a pirate day?

That's a stupid day.

153 Kragar  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 3:03:40pm

re: #143 The Ghost of a Flea

So the logic pretzel straightens out to:

If the government permits things that a religion finds immoral, the it's a restriction of religious freedom.

Now let's go look at the list of what's immoral according to Bryan Fischer...

Huh. Funny how protecting religious freedom means trampling everybody else that doesn't believe exactly what he does. Almost like it's not about freedom but instead about imposing the desires of the few on a larger subject population.

...and I'm not even to try and address that abuse of Dr.King's legacy. Fischer should just be grateful that I too gentle (and lazy) to follow through with my first impulse to knock his teeth out.

"Blood for the Blood God" is a theology, prayer, and a battlecry all in one, but do I cry about not being allowed to gather skulls for the skull throne?

OK, yes, sometimes. But I get their point.

154 Mich-again  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 3:03:54pm

re: #146 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton

I understand that there is a legal reason for this, but this seems like some sort of revenge on the prosecutors' part.

So its revenge when a prosecutor charges someone who broke the law? hmm.

155 b_sharp  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 3:04:28pm

re: #152 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton

That's a stupid day.

You are absolutely right. It should be talk like a pirate month.

156 Achilles Tang  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 3:05:13pm

50 questions to test yourself, if you are so inclined

I had 42 right and should have known 5 more, but it was a long time ago and that is my excuse.

157 Kragar  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 3:06:05pm

re: #151 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton

Not when you're offering public services (for example).

Anyone who argues a private company should be allowed to discriminate based on their beliefs and should not be punished legally should be for marriage equality, in that a private citizen should be able to marry and allocate their assets as they wish based on their beliefs and not face legal obstructions.

158 b_sharp  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 3:06:27pm

re: #152 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton

BTW, you already have a "guy on the Royal Navy vessel chasing the pirates" name.

159 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 3:06:55pm

re: #154 Mich-again

So its revenge when a prosecutor charges someone who broke the law? hmm.

Prosecutors have discretion re: charging.

The guys who investigated Bill Clinton's perjury were "legally right", but were they "right" right?

160 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 3:07:34pm

re: #158 Nucking Futs is the Place to Be.

BTW, you already have a "guy on the Royal Navy vessel chasing the pirates" name.

I deny the existence of pirates, and I will write a book proving they don't exist.

161 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 3:08:38pm

re: #146 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton

I understand that there is a legal reason for this, but this seems like some sort of revenge on the prosecutors' part.

I had the same thought. They had better have a really strong case against him or they are going to look really really bad.

162 gwangung  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 3:10:13pm

re: #159 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton

Prosecutors have discretion re: charging.

Um, lying to the court about finances is about as automatic a sentence as there is in court.

Aint no way this is anything about discretion.

163 engineer cat  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 3:12:00pm

re: #159 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton

Prosecutors have discretion re: charging.

The guys who investigated Bill Clinton's perjury were "legally right", but were they "right" right?

"sodomy", even between married persons, is still technically against the law in many places, as is unmarried adult non-related persons of different sexes living together

164 Kragar  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 3:12:11pm

Suddenly... Germans!

165 Mocking Jay  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 3:13:56pm

re: #164 Kragar

Suddenly... Germans!

[Embedded content]

wut the fuck...

166 Kragar  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 3:14:31pm

re: #163 engineer cat

"sodomy", even between married persons, is still technically against the law in many places, as is unmarried adult non-related persons of different sexes living together

Lawrence v. Texas

Lawrence v. Texas, 539 U.S. 558 (2003),[1] is a landmark decision by the United States Supreme Court. In the 6-3 ruling, the Court struck down the sodomy law in Texas and, by extension, invalidated sodomy laws in thirteen other states, making same-sex sexual activity legal in every U.S. state and territory. The court overturned its previous ruling on the same issue in the 1986 case Bowers v. Hardwick, where it upheld a challenged Georgia statute and did not find a constitutional protection of sexual privacy.

Lawrence explicitly overruled Bowers, holding that it had viewed the liberty interest too narrowly. The majority held that intimate consensual sexual conduct was part of the liberty protected by substantive due process under the Fourteenth Amendment. Lawrence invalidated similar laws throughout the United States that criminalized sodomy between consenting adults acting in private, whatever the sex of the participants.[2]

167 Kragar  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 3:14:59pm

re: #165 It's a cookbook!

wut the fuck...

I did warn you there were Germans involved.

168 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 3:16:03pm

re: #162 gwangung

Um, lying to the court about finances is about as automatic a sentence as there is in court.

IANAL, but I'm not sure charges are "automatic", so this still leaves discretion.

---

Sort of OT: if a witness testifies for someone and that someone is later sentenced anyway, should the witness be charged for false testimony, given that the court has already decided that it's false?

169 Mocking Jay  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 3:16:38pm

re: #167 Kragar

I did warn you there were Germans involved.

Ja ja...

170 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 3:17:12pm

re: #166 Kragar

Lawrence v. Texas

Yeah, well, barring atheists from office is automatically unconstitutional, and yet the laws are on the books.

171 Mocking Jay  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 3:18:30pm

re: #168 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton

IANAL, but I'm not sure charges are "automatic", so this still leaves discretion.

---

Sort of OT: if a witness testifies for someone and that someone is later sentenced anyway, should the witness be charged for false testimony, given that the court has already decided that it's false?

Out system works on deterrence. If we don't prosecute anyone who lies to the court then it becomes a problem. Especially when it has such a high profile.

172 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 3:18:37pm

re: #162 gwangung

Um, lying to the court about finances is about as automatic a sentence as there is in court.

Aint no way this is anything about discretion.

People lie in court a lot. It's fairly uncommon to charge them for it. Most of the time perjury charges are reserved for cops, lawyers, expert witnesses, etc.

173 gwangung  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 3:19:38pm

re: #172 Killgore Trout

People lie in court a lot. It's fairly uncommon to charge them for it. Most of the time perjury charges are reserved for cops, lawyers, expert witnesses, etc.

Um, are you serious about this? Don't insult my intelligence with that argument.

174 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 3:19:51pm

re: #171 It's a cookbook!

Out system works on deterrence. If we don't prosecute anyone who lies to the court then it becomes a problem. Especially when it has such a high profile.

But you don't prosecute anyone who lies to the court.

175 engineer cat  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 3:19:52pm

re: #166 Kragar

Lawrence v. Texas

huh

but is it still illegal to lead a cow down broadway south of 14th st at noon?

176 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 3:20:55pm

Maybe I don't recall the timeline accurately but I seem to recall money from his website and the indigence claim being common knowledge at the time. I think it was widely reported and discussed.

177 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 3:21:13pm

re: #173 gwangung

Um, are you serious about this? Don't insult my intelligence with that argument.

Too late for that.

178 gwangung  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 3:21:39pm

re: #174 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton

But you don't prosecute anyone who lies to the court.

Think you do when they lie about bail at a bail hearing. Kinda basic, you know?

179 Kragar  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 3:22:05pm

re: #172 Killgore Trout

People lie in court a lot. It's fairly uncommon to charge them for it. Most of the time perjury charges are reserved for cops, lawyers, expert witnesses, etc.

Lying can be hard to prove when its about what they may or may not have witnessed or believed.

When asked "How much money do you have?" and its equivalents under oath, it can be verified.

180 engineer cat  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 3:22:12pm

re: #142 engineer cat

An Appeal For Judgement From The Blog Manners Jury

is this offensive?

note to wimmens:

mens likes the long hair

hair am sexxxy

hmmm

this nearly got me banned from another blog, but it doesn't seem to have caused nearly the same outcry here...

181 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 3:22:50pm

re: #178 gwangung

Think you do when they lie about bail. Kinda basic, you know?

I'm not sure how this supports the claim that "If we don't prosecute anyone who lies to the court then it becomes a problem". Follow the conversation, will ya?

182 engineer cat  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 3:23:02pm

i thought to be perjury, it has to be lying about something that would materially affect the outcome of the case at hand

183 Kragar  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 3:23:11pm

re: #180 engineer cat

hmmm

this nearly got me banned from another blog, but it doesn't seem to have caused nearly the same outcry here...

Why did the lady slap the midget?

He kept saying how nice her hair smelled.

184 makeitstop  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 3:23:16pm

re: #176 Killgore Trout

Maybe I don't recall the timeline accurately but I seem to recall money from his website and the indigence claim being common knowledge at the time. I think it was widely reported and discussed.

He didn't mention he had $200K in donations in the bank so they wouldn't set his bail so high.

Perjury.

185 gwangung  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 3:24:15pm

re: #181 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton

I'm not sure how this supports the claim that "If we don't prosecute anyone who lies to the court then it becomes a problem". Follow the conversation, will ya?

When it's about setting the amount of bail, it most certainly supports the claim. Kinda basic.

186 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 3:25:05pm

re: #185 gwangung

When it's about setting the amount of bail, it most certainly supports the claim. Kinda basic.

Where in "If we don't prosecute anyone who lies to the court then it becomes a problem" do you see anything about bail? Reading comprehension, kinda basic.

187 gwangung  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 3:26:15pm

re: #186 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton

Sorry, but your arguments are getting argumentative for the sake of arguing. Done.

188 RadicalModerate  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 3:26:33pm

re: #172 Killgore Trout

People lie in court a lot. It's fairly uncommon to charge them for it. Most of the time perjury charges are reserved for cops, lawyers, expert witnesses, etc.

One major distinction here. One of the biggest things taken into account for a bail assessment is determination of flight risk. The amount of money involved is roughly a quarter million dollars, and there's also the small matter of that undisclosed duplicate passport.
He flat-out lied to the judge regarding this.

189 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 3:28:09pm

re: #187 gwangung

Sorry, but your arguments are getting argumentative for the sake of arguing. Done.

Nope, you just can't follow the discussion. We're discussing several thing at once, and replying with an argument about bail to a more general question is neither here, nor there. Multitasking, kinda basic.

190 Kragar  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 3:30:26pm

Architect of Anti-Health Care Lawsuit Admits To His Broader Agenda — No National Child Labor Laws, No Minimum Wage

The framers of our Constitution met in 1787 because the weak national governance adopted by the Articles of Confederation utterly failed. Their goal, in their own words, was to ensure that the federal government had the power to “legislate in all cases for the general interests of the Union, and also in those to which the States are separately incompetent.” National leaders must have the ability to address national problems, and this is especially true with respect to the national economy. As the Supreme Court explained very early in American history, there is “no sort of trade” that our national leaders cannot regulate, and the the power to regulate something “implies in its nature full power over the thing to be regulated,” so long as Congress does not trample the individual protected elsewhere in the Constitution.

Few living Americans have done more to undermine this vision than Randy Barnett, a Georgetown law professor and one of the leading architects of the lawsuits challenging the Affordable Care Act. In an interview with NPR yesterday, Barnett admitted just how far he’d like to go in reimagining the Constitution if his attack on health reform succeeds:

191 Obdicut  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 4:00:33pm

re: #172 Killgore Trout

People lie in court a lot. It's fairly uncommon to charge them for it. Most of the time perjury charges are reserved for cops, lawyers, expert witnesses, etc.

That's not true when it comes to things like reporting your finances to a judge for him to determine bail.

Lying to a judge is stupid and bad. It's a flagrantly dumb crime.

192 Obdicut  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 4:04:46pm

re: #168 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton

It doesn't follow that the witness testimony was false. It could be mistaken, etc. It'd have to have an entire trial to determine that, and most of the time, you'd be unable to. However, when it is proved (or admitted), people are charged as accessories after the fact for lying to police during an investigation. Not all the time-- usually it's suspended so that they can testify against the main person.

If you lie in court to protect someone, and it can be proved, you should definitely be charged with perjury. That is, if you're lying about something substantial, related to the crime.

193 Obdicut  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 4:06:56pm

From a random bailbond site:

[Link: www.888bailbond.com...]

Clients often worry about saying the “wrong thing” to the judge, but as long as they’re telling the truth, there is no “wrong” thing they can say. The judge isn’t basing the decision on your personality or socio-economic status, but on the facts. Not telling the full truth about your financial situation or lying about where money is coming from is the worst thing you can do at a 1275 hearing.

Being dishonest about the source of funds gets the defendant into even more trouble, according to the law:

(i) The bail of any defendant found to have willfully misled the court regarding the source of bail may be increased as a result of the willful misrepresentation. The misrepresentation may be a factor considered in any subsequent bail hearing.

This is no joke. Lying to the court is bad for you and the person charged. You’ve committed perjury, and the defendant may have his bail increased – if he gets it at all.

194 Romantic Heretic  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 4:30:03pm

re: #53 Talking Point Detective

I'm thinking it may be time to move to that cabin in the woods soon:

Image: pb-120612-gun-protest-jm-01.photoblog900.jpg

[Link: photoblog.msnbc.msn.com...]

Only problem is I'll have to find a woods not inhabited by gun-loving survivalists.

Holy crap! That's fucking scary.

195 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 4:59:40pm

re: #141 wrenchwench

Thank you!

196 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 5:10:51pm

re: #19 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton

I could link anybody in the US politics to Lenin easily, up to 1 degree of separation. Two words: Armand Hammer.

I haven't thought about him in YEARS.

197 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 5:22:24pm

re: #65 HappyWarrior

Not humane? What the fuck. The guy was accused of raping little boys. If there's even the slightest allegation, they should have looked into it considering how serious a crime that is.

I know an uncomfortable number of victims of sexual abuse who tell me that the first question they were asked when they reported the situation was "Do you understand that your saying this could ruin _____'s life?"

The instinct to protect an adult male predator belonging to the dominant social group runs deep. I don't want to go the evo psych route, because those guys are morons, but I'm sure chimpanzees do the same.

198 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 5:24:08pm

re: #101 darthstar

Really? We now have to follow the adventures of Zimmerman's fair and delicate bride?

[Embedded content]

I didn't even know he was married.

199 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 5:27:25pm

re: #133 Lidane

WTF? Were they employing Vatican logic or something?

Fuck humane. He was molesting children. Arrest him and throw him in jail, period. Who cares about football when real kids are getting hurt?

That's the thing. The Church sex abuse scandals were horrifying...but they precisely reflected the absolute social norm of about thirty or forty years previously. And the Sandusky case shows the same pattern, being carried out to protect a secular organization.

This runs very deep. We are just beginning to get the grappling hooks under the roots.

200 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 5:32:10pm

re: #175 engineer cat

huh

but is it still illegal to lead a cow down broadway south of 14th st at noon?

It probably should be.

I met an amazing man on Sunday. After telling me how the Muslim Brotherhood had taken over the LAPD, he showed me his project for sending Texas Longhorn cattle to Israel.

It SOUNDS like a good idea, but it's being promoted by a man who thinks the Muslims Brotherhood has taken over the LAPD, so I keep thinking there must be a trap in there somewhere.

201 Mattand  Tue, Jun 12, 2012 5:38:45pm

re: #59 Talking Point Detective

re: #194 Romantic Heretic

I really don't have a problem with people owning guns as per the 2nd Amendment. I know there's a lot of gun owners here, but I'm sorry; the people in these photos are paranoid bullies. If they feel the need to carry an automatic rifle in public like that, they need to move somewhere safer.

I swear to God, that second photo with the blonde kills me in that these wannabe militia nitwits are locked and loaded and marching past a fucking ice cream store.

Jesus Fucking Christ, Obama expanded gun rights when he signed that credit card bill with the weapons rider. No one's taking their goddamn guns away.


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