Golden Spider Duck.

Irish Father's Day.

Warning: it's a little bleak.

re: #3 Charles Johnson

Well, I take the point of view that, hey, at least I'm not those two poor fuckers.

re: #1 Obdicut

Golden Spider Duck.

CROW!!!

re: #3 Charles Johnson

Warning: it's a little bleak.

I found it heartwarming.

re: #5 Kragar

CROW!!!

"'Breach hull, all die!' Even had it underlined!"

Dialogue is good too.

re: #7 Targetpractice

"'Breach hull, all die!' Even had it underlined!"

"Who is this average looking man god?"
"She called you a crimson pig Mike... HEY!"
"She thinks I'm average looking." (wink)

No subtitles?

MST3k - The Horror of Party Beach

re: #9 Kragar

"Who is this average looking man god?"
"She called you a crimson pig Mike... HEY!"
"She thinks I'm average looking." (wink)

Mike: "I just asked them to take care of a little problem!"
Crow: "And they did! Here comes Mike, Destroyer of Worlds!"
Servo: "Oh, god of fire and vengeance — get away from me, you knob!"

re: #12 Targetpractice

Mike: "I just asked them to take care of a little problem!"
Crow: "And they did! Here comes Mike, Destroyer of Worlds!"
Servo: "Oh, god of fire and vengeance — get away from me, you knob!"

MST3k 808 - The She-Creature

re: #13 Kragar

MST3k 808 - The She-Creature

[Embedded content]

I don't need to see any Pam Geller or Sarah Palin vids, thank you very much.

//

And of course, Beastie Boys - Body Movin

with MST3K - Diabolik

"Put your helmet on, we'll be reaching speeds of *three*!"

re: #16 Targetpractice

"Put your helmet on, we'll be reaching speeds of *three*!"

Space Mutiny

re: #3 Charles Johnson

Warning: it's a little bleak.

A LITTLE????

Testing... Upper is URL from indiv. tweet, lower is embed code.

[Link: twitter.com...]

Hmm. Fail in preview, just a link

Macro shot- Restrepia Orchid finally in bloom! Canon 7D/Sigma 105mm twitter.com/RW_Conspirator…

— Daniel Ballard (@RW_Conspirator) June 19, 2012

re: #19 Daniel Ballard

Testing... Upper is URL from indiv. tweet, lower is embed code.

[Link: twitter.com...]

Hmm. Fail in preview, just a link

[Embedded content]

Gorgeous!

Happy Monday Evening Lizards...
I say we put on a theatrical production on Puns..
It could be a play on words..

re: #19 Daniel Ballard

You need a front view! I need flowers, after that video!

re: #19 Daniel Ballard

The easiest way to get the individual tweet URL is to right-click the timestamp at upper right of the tweet.

Macro shot- Restrepia Orchid finally in bloom! Canon 7D/Sigma 105mm twitter.com/RW_Conspirator...

— Daniel Ballard (@RW_Conspirator) June 19, 2012

Aha! Thanks again Charles.

It should look something like this:

h t t p s : / / twitter.com/RW_Conspirator/statuses/214907596950347777

re: #22 Dancing along the light of day

That's our best bloom right now. That spindly little guy was a challenge to get at all. Photo geeks will appreciate this- 105mm x 1.6... 168 mm effective focal length on my camera and only 12" distance. F8 on a tripod for the .4 second exposure. The flower is about 1/4" tall.

Just wanted to mention, Charles, thanks for putting up a good site where I finally feel politically at home, and where a whole new group of people can get pissed off at my contrarian posts. [snark, snark]

BREAKING: Obama Would Veto Pro-Mercury Pollution Resolution

The White House has threatened to veto a Congressional Review Act repeal of the Mercury and Air Toxics Standards, if S.J. Res. 37 is presented to President Obama. Today, the Executive Office of the President released a statement disapproving of Sen. Inhofe’s (R-OK) resolution that would prevent the EPA from limiting mercury and other air toxins from power plants. Inhofe’s bill would block the Mercury and Air Toxics Standards that protect children, seniors, the infirm, and everyone else from air pollutants from air pollution such as mercury and arsenic that are emitted from coal-burning power plants. The standards “will prevent as many as 11,000 avoidable premature deaths and 4,700 heart attacks, annually. The annual value of these health benefits alone is estimated to be as much as $90 billion.” The veto threat makes it easier for moderate Democrats and Republicans to oppose Inhofe’s resolution because they can argue that S.J. Res 37 will never become law, so its futile debate and vote on it.

re: #28 Kragar

BREAKING: Obama Would Veto Pro-Mercury Pollution Resolution

So what if it'll kill thousands, it'll create jobs!

re: #29 Targetpractice

The funereal business is jobs too.

re: #30 Kragar

The funereal business is jobs too.

And it decreases the surplus population!

re: #17 Kragar

re: #31 Targetpractice

And everybody thought the Mad Hatter was funny and clever, right? Who wouldn't more people with heavy-metal brain damage around--they hold crazy tea parties and hang out with cute fuzzy animals!

So Zimmernan's lawyer's defense will be that Zimmerman's credibility shouldn't be an issue?

"Don’t forget that his credibility is of some relevance but much more important are the facts of the case," said O'Mara. "So if we have forensic facts, if we have eyewitness or ear-witness facts, if we have injuries that were sustained and what they mean, those are the facts that a jury should really look at. They may never need to get to the point of George’s credibility because the facts themselves may speak loud enough to give the true signal."

I'm thinking maybe he should re-think his strategy a bit.

[Link: usnews.msnbc.msn.com...]

Budget Experts Stumped By Romney’s Plan To Grow Military Spending While Cutting Revenue

"spending plan doesn’t reflect fiscal reality.”

re: #32 Be Zorch, Daddio

[Embedded content]

MST3k 819 - Invasion of the Neptune Men

re: #34 Talking Point Detective

So Zimmernan's lawyer's defense will be that Zimmerman's credibility shouldn't be an issue?

I'm thinking maybe he should re-think his strategy a bit.

[Link: usnews.msnbc.msn.com...]

Say that we call Zimmerman's credibility suspect and toss his version of events. What are we left with, besides both sides trying to sell their own version of how things went down?

re: #35 jaunte

"spending plan doesn’t reflect fiscal reality.”

"it doesn't need to."

re: #34 Talking Point Detective

So Zimmernan's lawyer's defense will be that Zimmerman's credibility shouldn't be an issue?

I'm thinking maybe he should re-think his strategy a bit.

[Link: usnews.msnbc.msn.com...]

Given the news from CNN, I think Zimmerman is toast:

Prosecutors: Jail phone transcripts show Zimmerman, wife talking finances in code

Despite telling the court they were indigent, George Zimmerman and his wife discussed -- in code, according to prosecutors -- money raised online to help in his defense on second-degree murder charges, jailhouse phone calls released Monday show.

Prosecutors had claimed the Zimmermans lied about their financial means before a Florida judge set his bond, which the suspect then posted to get out of jail. Zimmerman, accused in the death of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, is now back behind bars after the judge revoked his bail, citing the misrepresentations.

Six calls made public Monday, out of about 151 total that Zimmerman made while incarcerated, appear to back up the prosecutor's assertions.

This really is a game changer: If Zimmerman is prove a liar as this appears to do, then his chances of beating the charges against him will be greatly reduced.

re: #39 Dark_Falcon

Given the news from CNN, I think Zimmerman is toast:

Prosecutors: Jail phone transcripts show Zimmerman, wife talking finances in code

This really is a game changer: If Zimmerman is prove a liar as this appears to do, then his chances of beating the charges against him will be greatly reduced.

Wouldn't you have to be asked a question in order to lie?

re: #34 Talking Point Detective

ear-witness facts

Now they're just making shit up..

re: #40 Targetpractice

Wouldn't you have to be asked a question in order to lie?

Here's a bit more of the article, making things clearer:

At her husband's April 20 bond hearing, Shellie Zimmerman testified she didn't know how much had been raised through the website her husband had set up before charges being filed.

And when asked whether the couple had money available to assist in his defense, she replied, "Um, not -- not that I'm aware of."

In one jailhouse phone conversation, Zimmerman asks his wife, "In my account, do I have at least $100?" She answers no, then tells him he has more like "$8, $8.60."

"So total everything, how much are we looking at?" Zimmerman asks his wife.

"Like $155," she responds.

Prosecutors claim the husband and wife were speaking in a type of code about their available funds, an assertion Zimmerman's lawyer Mark O'Mara says the defense has "never contested."

re: #35 jaunte

Budget Experts Stumped By Romney’s Plan To Grow Military Spending While Cutting Revenue

I'm curious to see if Romney can keep his shell game going through past the debates. Sooner or later if he doesn't actually make hard commitments to what he's going to cut even the most doe eyed of his supporters is going to start seeing him as nothing but a con man.

In graph form his plan looks even less sustainable, intelligent or justifiable. What in the hell could possibly warrant that much defense spending? The only plausible answers, still hiding up Romney's sleeve, should scare the hell out of anyone with a half ounce of common sense.

re: #38 Mich-again

"it doesn't need to."

Campaign released spending plans are not intended to be actually enacted. They're intended to draw votes by showcasing the issues the candidates "cares" about.

re: #40 Targetpractice

Wouldn't you have to be asked a question in order to lie?

He was asked a question, and he responded by certifying himself indigent under penalty of perjury.

re: #45 goddamnedfrank

He was asked a question, and he responded by certifying himself indigent under penalty of perjury.

He may very well have thought the Paypal funds were spoken for, to pay for his defense and her living expenses, and not for his bond.

re: #41 Mich-again

Now they're just making shit up..

Yeah - I liked the "ear-witness" quote also.

But seriously, the lawyer was saying that Z's credibility isn't important? So the judge shouldn't consider credibility when Zimmerman says that he shot Martin because he feared for his life?

So much for SYG.

re: #42 Dark_Falcon

Here's a bit more of the article, making things clearer:

She also stated in her testimony that her brother-in-law, George's brother, was the one in charge of the account and would know how much was in it. Yet the judge didn't think it vitally important at the hearing to get in touch with said brother-in-law.

Here is the excerpt from the Federal Register that explains the EPA rule on Mercury emissions. Pretty good read. (pdf) National Emission Standards for
Hazardous Air Pollutants From Coal- and Oil-Fired Electric Utility Steam
Generating Units... It even includes sources for scientific peer reviews of the data and analysis used by the EPA. Which is more than any of the political opponents have provided.

re: #46 Targetpractice

He may very well have thought the Paypal funds were spoken for, to pay for his defense and her living expenses, and not for his bond.

Are you serious? Did you read the article? They spoke in code to make it seem they were speaking of smaller amounts - because they knew their conversations were being recorded.

They clearly knew exactly what they were doing. His credibility is shot.

re: #50 Talking Point Detective

Are you serious? Did you read the article? They spoke in code to make it seem they were speaking of smaller amounts - because they knew their conversations were being recorded.

They clearly knew exactly what they were doing. His credibility is shot.

So you know your calls are being recorded, so you speak in the most asinine "code" plausible?

re: #22 Dancing along the light of day

You need a front view! I need flowers, after that video!

Found one more tiny, almost overlooked it.
I love the texture

Another Orchid bloom that is about 1/4" across Canon 7D #Macro Photography twitter.com/RW_Conspirator...

— Daniel Ballard (@RW_Conspirator) June 19, 2012

re: #46 Targetpractice

He may very well have thought the Paypal funds were spoken for, to pay for his defense and her living expenses, and not for his bond.

They also systematically transferred the money in amounts less than $10,000 because they know that amounts of $10,000 or more would be reported to the IRS.

It's actually pretty impressive how much the knew about the legality and how to skirt the law.

re: #51 Targetpractice

So you know your calls are being recorded, so you speak in the most asinine "code" plausible?

My wife and I use pig Latin when we need to speak in code.. HenWay isA oreYay OmMay EavingLay?

re: #46 Targetpractice

He may very well have thought the Paypal funds were spoken for, to pay for his defense and her living expenses, and not for his bond.

Sorry, but that explanation is not plausible at all. When you certify yourself indigent, and I've actually had to do this once in my life to pay for a medical emergency, you add up the value of everything even tangentially in your possession. You have to provide your car title, mortgage documents if you have them, and information regarding every single debt and account in your name, regardless of how they're allocated. It's impossible to think that funds are "spoken for" and simply omit them, you have to identify every single asset and obligation down to the penny. The entire process is designed to make it painfully obvious that you're signing a legal document and that hiding or omitting anything will have dire repercussions.

re: #51 Targetpractice

So you know your calls are being recorded, so you speak in the most asinine "code" plausible?

Most people don't know how to create and use effective verbal codes.

re: #55 goddamnedfrank

Sorry, but that explanation is not plausible at all. When you certify yourself indigent, and I've actually had to do this once in my life to pay for a medical emergency, you add up the value of everything even tangentially in your possession. You have to provide your car title, mortgage documents if you have them, and information regarding every single debt and account in your name, regardless of how they're allocated. It's impossible to think that funds are "spoken for" and simply omit them, you have to identify every single asset and obligation down to the penny. The entire process is designed to make it painfully obvious that you're signing a legal document and that hiding or omitting anything will have dire repercussions.

And who here wishes to accuse George Zimmerman of being a brain trust?

re: #51 Targetpractice

So you know your calls are being recorded, so you speak in the most asinine "code" plausible?

Did you read the article?

Prosecutors allege the couple was moving money out of an Internet PayPal account that they referred to as "Peter Pan,"...

So it was some kind of little game they played to refer to PayPal as Peter Pan? Just coincidental to the statements they made about how much money they had?

I'll ask again - are you serious?

re: #55 goddamnedfrank

The entire process is designed to make it painfully obvious that you're signing a legal document and that hiding or omitting anything will have dire repercussions.

Like when they repeat the Starbucks Order to you.

re: #57 Targetpractice

And who here wishes to accuse George Zimmerman of being a brain trust?

Someone lying because they're stupid and don't think they'll get caught isn't really a defense. The telephone code pretty much rules out the idea that the Zimmermans didn't understand the fact that they were attempting to deceive the court.

re: #58 Talking Point Detective

Did you read the article?

So it was some kind of little game they played to refer to PayPal as Peter Pan? Just coincidental to the statements they made about how much money they had?

I'll ask again - are you serious?

I am serious, having listened to the calls myself, I'm of the opinion that Zimmerman didn't trust O'Mara enough to let him have access to the account. It's not as thought the existence of the account was a secret, just the contents of it.

re: #57 Targetpractice

And who here wishes to accuse George Zimmerman of being a brain trust?

Why do you think his lawyer is trying to say that Zimmerman's credibility isn't relevant to the case?

re: #60 goddamnedfrank

Someone lying because they're stupid and don't think they'll get caught isn't really a defense. The telephone code pretty much rules out the idea that the Zimmermans didn't understand the fact that they were attempting to deceive the court.

The court was "deceived" only because the court didn't make the effort to find out more about the account than that it existed. Sherrie told the court that her brother-in-law knew how much was in it, because he was in charge of it, but neither the prosecutor nor the judge felt it necessary to get in touch with said brother-in-law.

re: #61 Targetpractice

I am serious, having listened to the calls myself, I'm of the opinion that Zimmerman didn't trust O'Mara enough to let him have access to the account. It's not as thought the existence of the account was a secret, just the contents of it.

Which is really, really damning. You just don't get to keep your financial information secret from the same court you're signing documents with certifying yourself as financially indigent.

re: #62 Talking Point Detective

Why do you think his lawyer is trying to say that Zimmerman's credibility isn't relevant to the case?

Because like I asked above, if you decide he's not credible and invalidate his version of events, then what is there left?

re: #64 goddamnedfrank

Which is really, really damning. You just don't get to keep your financial information secret from the same court you're signing documents with certifying yourself as financially indigent.

Then I await the state bringing perjury charges against George Zimmerman.

re: #57 Targetpractice

And who here wishes to accuse George Zimmerman of being a brain trust?

The sad thing is, George is a victim of having a judge for a dad. He probably got away with shit all along and never had to experience the smack across the forehead compliments of the system for a lesser offense and changed his course. This might be the first time GZ can't look for pops to make a call and cut a deal.

re: #63 Targetpractice

The court was "deceived" only because the court didn't make the effort to find out more about the account than that it existed.

It's not the court's job to prevent you from thinking you can lie to it.

re: #61 Targetpractice

I am serious, having listened to the calls myself, I'm of the opinion that Zimmerman didn't trust O'Mara enough to let him have access to the account. It's not as thought the existence of the account was a secret, just the contents of it.

Didn't trust O'Mara? So they thought their own attorney would be monitoring their calls and they wanted to hide their money from him?

And the transfer in amounts of less than $10,000 was just a coincidence?

re: #61 Targetpractice

I am serious, having listened to the calls myself, I'm of the opinion that Zimmerman didn't trust O'Mara enough to let him have access to the account. It's not as thought the existence of the account was a secret, just the contents of it.

He trusts the man to defend him against a charge that will put him away for life if he's convicted, but doesn't trust the lawyer with knowing about his money? That's quite foolish.

Question for anyone who knows: If O'Mara had become aware Zimmerman had lied in certifying himself as indigent, would he have been obligated to report it? I'm thinking here of ethics rules forbidding lawyers to aid in a filing they know to be dishonest.

re: #66 Targetpractice

Then I await the state bringing perjury charges against George Zimmerman.

If they do that, then he's toast. A perjury charge would cost him all credibility with most any jury.

re: #68 goddamnedfrank

It's not the court's job to prevent you from thinking you can lie to it.

So the judge and prosecution are told that a third party has knowledge that would affect the decision rendered...but feel no obligation to seek this third party out?

re: #61 Targetpractice

I am serious, having listened to the calls myself, I'm of the opinion that Zimmerman didn't trust O'Mara enough to let him have access to the account. It's not as thought the existence of the account was a secret, just the contents of it.

What caused them to reverse their opinion about trusting their own lawyer?

"(The calls) certainly suggest that they knew how much money that they had in the account that was coming through," said O'Mara. "Let’s not forget, though they were not honest with Judge Lester at first, that it was disclosed four days later. The money was transferred to my trust account and taken care of."

re: #69 Talking Point Detective

Didn't trust O'Mara? So they thought their own attorney would be monitoring their calls and they wanted to hide their money from him?

And the transfer in amounts of less than $10,000 was just a coincidence?

re: #70 Dark_Falcon

He trusts the man to defend him against a charge that will put him away for life if he's convicted, but doesn't trust the lawyer with knowing about his money? That's quite foolish.

Question for anyone who knows: If O'Mara had become aware Zimmerman had lied in certifying himself as indigent, would he have been obligated to report it? I'm thinking here of ethics rules forbidding lawyers to aid in a filing they know to be dishonest.

O'Mara came on the case the same day George was arrested, just after his first two lawyers publicly cut ties with him while at the same time announcing to the press their views of his mental state. Their first meeting is just O'Mara showing up to get George's signature on a petition to have the first judge recuse herself. It isn't until later calls that Shellie starts voicing a better opinion of the man. I don't consider it inconceivable that George just didn't trust O'Mara enough, prior to the hearing, to tell him about how much was in the account.

re: #73 Talking Point Detective

What caused them to reverse their opinion about trusting their own lawyer?

His performance at the bond hearing, including taking the prosecution to task for their wording of the affidavit. Actually showing he was taking the case seriously, instead of just there for the publicity.

re: #74 Targetpractice

re: #70 Dark_Falcon

O'Mara came on the case the same day George was arrested, just after his first two lawyers publicly cut ties with him while at the same time announcing to the press their views of his mental state. Their first meeting is just O'Mara showing up to get George's signature on a petition to have the first judge recuse herself. It isn't until later calls that Shellie starts voicing a better opinion of the man. I don't consider it inconceivable that George just didn't trust O'Mara enough, prior to the hearing, to tell him about how much was in the account.

That's possible, but it would still be perjury. If he wasn't sure, then he should not have filed papers claiming to be indigent. The judge would have set higher bail but it would have been honest.

Sandusky's defense: He's a great guy!

Jerry Sandusky's defense doesn't refute charges, instead relies on character witnesses

Sandusky seems to hold the carefree attitude that this is all just a misunderstanding, that he was always a kindhearted guy whose positive impact on troubled boys is being misconstrued, especially by his accusers.

If only people would see how much he helped, they'd never believe these tales of hurt, no matter how many kids the prosecution trots out to cry on the witness stand.

That's a fantasy of course. That isn't a viable defense.

re: #72 Targetpractice

So the judge and prosecution are told that a third party has knowledge that would affect the decision rendered...but feel no obligation to seek this third party out?

Exactly, it's not their job. I don't understand why this is so hard to accept. Assuming that they are told, or bother in their spare time to read press coverage on the defendant, neither the Judge nor the prosecution had a duty to Zimmerman to keep him from thinking he could lie and get away with it. It's not like entrapment because they're not actually planting the idea of unlawful behavior or goading someone to break the law who otherwise wouldn't. They're just doing their daily jobs, dealing with other cases, etc. Nowhere in their job description will you find it's their duty to babysit idiot douchebags and make extra doubly sure that they're not going to knowingly sign their names to a lie. Defendants have lawyers to spoon feed them that kind of advice, and if a defendant doesn't trust their lawyer with all the information necessary to help them from making such an obviously bad decision, then in the end they've got nobody to blame but themselves.

re: #76 Dark_Falcon

That's possible, but it would still be perjury. If he wasn't sure, then he should not have filed papers claiming to be indigent. The judge would have set higher bail but it would have been honest.

State may very well try him on perjury charges when this all over, assuming he doesn't get convicted. My guess is they're not filing because doing so would bring their own credibility into question.

re: #75 Targetpractice

His performance at the bond hearing, including taking the prosecution to task for their wording of the affidavit. Actually showing he was taking the case seriously, instead of just there for the publicity.

So your theory is that they lie to their lawyer, and speak in code because they think that their lawyer is listening in on their phone calls to find out how much money they have?

Implausible.

But even still, it doesn't explain why they transferred money in amounts smaller than what has to be reported to the IRS. Do they think that the lawyer has a mole in the IRS?

re: #79 Targetpractice

State may very well try him on perjury charges when this all over, assuming he doesn't get convicted. My guess is they're not filing because doing so would bring their own credibility into question.

How would their credibility be brought into question?

re: #79 Targetpractice

State may very well try him on perjury charges when this all over, assuming he doesn't get convicted. My guess is they're not filing because doing so would bring their own credibility into question.

??
They filed perjury charges against her. How would bringing perjury charges against him bring their credibility into question whereas filing perjury charges against her wouldn't?

re: #81 Dark_Falcon

How would their credibility be brought into question?

Their affidavit at the bond hearing omitted that Zimmerman sustained injuries and that he was claiming self-defense. And in its motion to revoke bond, it excluded the portion of Shellie's testimony involving the brother-in-law. The state seems to be relying upon half-truths to make its case.

re: #83 Targetpractice

Their affidavit at the bond hearing omitted that Zimmerman sustained injuries and that he was claiming self-defense. And in its motion to revoke bond, it excluded the portion of Shellie's testimony involving the brother-in-law. The state seems to be relying upon half-truths to make its case.

They're required to make the defense's argument at a bond hearing?

re: #84 Talking Point Detective

They're required to make the defense's argument at a bond hearing?

They're required to include even exculpating evidence in the affidavit, especially when we're talking an SYG case.

re: #85 Targetpractice

They're required to include even exculpating evidence in the affidavit, especially when we're talking an SYG case.

I see. I can see where that would be a problem for them.

re: #79 Targetpractice

My guess is they're not filing because doing so would bring their own credibility into question.

How? Again, they have no affirmative duty to say to Zimmerman, "Hey, what about that Paypal account and website of yours we read about?" The fact that we can sit here and say it was monumentally stupid of Zimmerman to think he could keep such a thing secret after it was written about in dozens of national press stories doesn't have any bearing on the court's credibility.

The fact that I already knew an answer to a question I put to someone doesn't affect my credibility at all, whether or not they lie to me. It may seem like a gotcha situation and unfair from their (rather biased) perspective, but if it tells me something about their overall trustworthiness then the exercise is both ethical and incredibly useful.

An overly serious analysis of gallows humor deployed by pro-choice Michigan legislators

re: #87 goddamnedfrank

How? Again, they have no affirmative duty to say to Zimmerman, "Hey, what about that Paypal account and website of yours we read about?" The fact that we can sit here and say it was monumentally stupid of Zimmerman to think he could keep such a thing secret after it was written about in dozens of national press stories doesn't have any bearing on the court's credibility.

The fact that I already knew an answer to a question I put to someone doesn't affect my credibility at all, whether or not they lie to me. It may seem like a gotcha situation and unfair from their (rather biased) perspective, but if it tells me something about their overall trustworthiness then the exercise is both ethical and incredibly useful.

The state doesn't allege his lied, they allege he was deceitful by omission. He only took the stand during the hearing to give his apology to the Martin family, he was never asked about his finances, even when the prosecution cross-examined him. The state's case amounts to his being guilty of deception by not jumping up after his wife's testimony to tell the court that she'd just committed perjury.

VA CONVICTS: DNA tests show scale of bad convictions, study says

New DNA testing in hundreds of old Virginia homicide and sexual assault cases supports the exoneration of at least 38 suspects, according to a study released Monday by a national policy group that examined the test results.

The Urban Institute’s study is the first to say how many exonerations are likely from Virginia’s stash of archived, decades-old biological samples that so far have cleared at least five men who were convicted of sexual assaults. Officials with the state Department of Forensic Science, which is conducting the testing project, have said their job is not to suggest who should be exonerated, but to test the samples and deliver the results to law enforcement officials who determine whether they believe someone is innocent.

The institute’s researchers found that in 5 percent of homicide and sexual assault cases, DNA testing ruled out the convicted person. If the scope is narrowed to just the sexual assault convictions, DNA testing eliminated between 8 percent and 15 percent of convicted offenders. The wrongful conviction rate previously had been estimated at 3 percent or less.

[...]

I wonder if Virginians will accept how seriously wrong their justice system is working.

re: #89 Targetpractice

The state doesn't allege his lied, they allege he was deceitful by omission. He only took the stand during the hearing to give his apology to the Martin family, he was never asked about his finances, even when the prosecution cross-examined him. The state's case amounts to his being guilty of deception by not jumping up after his wife's testimony to tell the court that she'd just committed perjury.

So, he watches his wife commit perjury, and then he has a series of phone calls to keep secret the information she lied about under oath, and you think that he would risk her going to jail and him being convicted of murder just so they could hide some money from their own lawyer?

And I'll ask again how the < $10,000 transfers fits in with your thinking?

I'm tired and so I'm heading to bed. I'll leave you all with this article I'm posting so that Freetoken doesn't have to:

Behind the scenes of the world's most famous reality star family: The Kardashians take a trip down memory lane with Oprah

By Andrea Magrath

In a new interview with Oprah Winfrey, the Kardashian family have opened up about everything from Kim's short-lived marriage, to whether Kris Jenner 'pimps' her children out, and what they think they are actually famous for.

The clan have also opened up their photo albums, and revealed some previously unseen pictures from behind the scenes of the world's most famous family.

Old pictures show Kris Jenner and former husband, the late Robert Kardashian, on holiday with their close friends OJ Simpson and Nicole Brown.

re: #90 freetoken

The magnitude of injustice reflected in that study is really quite stunning.

re: #91 Talking Point Detective

So, he watches his wife commit perjury, and then he has a series of phone calls to keep secret the information she lied about under oath, and you think that he would risk her going to jail and him being convicted of murder just so they could hide some money from their own lawyer?

You're getting the sequence of events jumbled up, the calls were prior to the hearing, not after.

And I'll ask again how the < $10,000 transfers fits in with your thinking?

That it looks bad. And that the Feds might be able to charge her for structuring.

re: #92 Dark_Falcon

Kim supposedly used the word "epiphany" in the interview.

It surprised me she knew a four syllable word.

re: #94 Targetpractice

That it looks bad. And that the Feds might be able to charge her for structuring.

I don't think the sequence affects the argument. So he lies with his wife to hide information, while being held on a murder charge where his credibility is very much at issue, and watches his wife commit perjury (no doubt conspiring with her in her doing so), because they want to hide money from their own lawyer?

I guess it's possible. It seems unlikely to me. They clearly have knowledge of the law. That has been clear all along with how he has conducted himself. This wasn't just a case of innocent stupidity.

re: #94 Targetpractice

You're getting the sequence of events jumbled up, the calls were prior to the hearing, not after.

That it looks bad. And that the Feds might be able to charge her for structuring.

Time for me to "hit my sack" as my girlfriend's kid is famous for saying.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

re: #96 Talking Point Detective

I don't think the sequence affects the argument. So he lies with his wife to hid information, while being held on a murder charge, and watches his wife commit perjury (no doubt conspiring with her in her doing so), because they want to hide money from their own lawyer?

I guess it's possible. It seems unlikely to me. They clearly have knowledge of the law. That has been clear all along with how he has conducted himself. This wasn't just a case of innocent stupidity.

So, besides a lower bond, what did he gain by purposefully deceiving the court. He had a GPS anklet on, so he couldn't make a run for it. And his actions after his release, like turning the money in the account of to O'Mara as well as the second passport, doesn't give the appearance with some grand scheme.

The man, from all appearances, is a dumbass. A knowledgeable one, perhaps, but a dumbass nonetheless.

re: #89 Targetpractice

The state's case amounts to his being guilty of deception by not jumping up after his wife's testimony to tell the court that she'd just committed perjury.

Along with the evidence in the recorded phone conversations of his collusion in the crafting of that false testimony.

re: #98 Targetpractice

So, besides a lower bond, what did he gain by purposefully deceiving the court. He had a GPS anklet on, so he couldn't make a run for it. And his actions after his release, like turning the money in the account of to O'Mara as well as the second passport, doesn't give the appearance with some grand scheme.

The man, from all appearances, is a dumbass. A knowledgeable one, perhaps, but a dumbass nonetheless.

One can be quite intelligent and well educated and still be a complete dumbass.

re: #72 Targetpractice

So the judge and prosecution are told that a third party has knowledge that would affect the decision rendered...but feel no obligation to seek this third party out?

Clown question, bro.

re: #98 Targetpractice

So, besides a lower bond, what did he gain by purposefully deceiving the court. He had a GPS anklet on, so he couldn't make a run for it. And his actions after his release, like turning the money in the account of to O'Mara as well as the second passport, doesn't give the appearance with some grand scheme.

The man, from all appearances, is a dumbass. A knowledgeable one, perhaps, but a dumbass nonetheless.

He was deathly afraid of going to jail. The higher the bond, the more likely he is to be spending time in jail.

Dith Purkinje - Pulse with a Little Water

re: #99 goddamnedfrank

Along with the evidence in the recorded phone conversations of his collusion in the crafting of that false testimony.

Even the state doesn't say they planned for her to lie, only to keep the money secret.

re: #102 Talking Point Detective

He was deathly afraid of going to jail. The higher the bond, the more likely he is to be spending time in jail.

So he...what? Was running under the assumption that he could announce the contents of that account after the bond was granted and the state couldn't do anything to him?

Our America:

Tiny little Christian cross orbiting the Earth "in the face of Satan" can now be tracked by satellite

Last month, a 2-inch cross was launched into space as Celestis 11/Falcon 9 cargo so that it could orbit the Earth and give Christians joy and hope that the "sign of the Son of man in heaven" was literally in the "heavens of the Earth."

The cross was cut out of the much larger cross lugged around by Arthur Blessitt, who walked almost 40,000 miles to take his wooden cross into 319 nations, territories and island groups. After many years of failed attempts in getting a Christian cross launched into Earth's orbit, Blessitt excitedly declared in May, "We wave the cross in the face of Satan over all the earth proclaiming Good News in Jesus Christ for all people."
Things are even more exciting, it seems.

The cross "Orbits the Earth every 90 minutes!" Blessett's website proclaims, and Christians can track its glorious progress. Actually, they'll be tracking Celestis 11/Falcon 9 on Google, but nonetheless, as Blessitt says, "A Cross made from the Cross Carried Around the World on foot is 'Now' Orbiting This Earth! Its [sic] fun to see where the cross is any moment."

Blessitt's gimmick for years was hauling a wooden cross around the world.

That article, and his Wikipedia entry (either written by him or one of his followers) gloss over a few bits of his life. He used to brag about going into porno shops ... to insert gospel tracts into the porno mags... um, yeah.

Note that the wikipedia entry mentions his second wife... there are questions about why this guy divorced his first wife, a woman about which he wrote in a book that God led him to marry.

Anyway, this is America - there is a mark born every minute.

re: #105 Targetpractice

So he...what? Was running under the assumption that he could announce the contents of that account after the bond was granted and the state couldn't do anything to him?

It seems that way.

Clearly, they had a reason to lie to the court and risk the consequences of doing so. If they thought that the money wasn't germane to how their bond would be set, then they would have just said how much money they had. They knew that having that money was relevant to where their bond would be set, so they lied. Seems pretty cut and dried to me.

I see three possibilities:

They lied "accidentally" - completely implausible.

They lied, risking jail time for perjury and undermining a murder defense, to hide money from their lawyer. 2nd most implausible.

The lied, risking jail time for perjury and undermining a murder defense, to stay out of jail. Maybe it doesn't seem like a plausible explanation, but it does seem like the least implausible to me.

OK - I really do need to hit my sack now.

re: #104 Targetpractice

Even the state doesn't say they planned for her to lie, only to keep the money secret.

That's really a distinction without difference. Also, did you see under 1 the phrase "reasons cited by defendant" part B "Defendant has no significant financial assets?" You do get that perjury isn't just about what's said on the stand right? It's also covers the facts you certify to in your legal motions. Section 2 states "Defendant misrepresented, misled and deceived the court as to his possession of a United States passport and Defendant and his families financial circumstances."

re: #108 goddamnedfrank

That's really a distinction without difference. Also, did you see under 1 the phrase "reasons cited by defendant" part B "Defendant has no significant financial assets?" You do get that perjury isn't just about what's said on the stand right? It's also covers the facts you certify to in your legal motions. Section 2 states "Defendant misrepresented, misled and deceived the court as to his possession of a United States passport and Defendant and his families financial circumstances."

Wouldn't the state have to show that he purposefully lied on the paperwork? As opposed to stupidly believing that the account didn't count towards his finances?

re: #109 Targetpractice

Wouldn't the state have to show that he purposefully lied on the paperwork? As opposed to stupidly believing that the account didn't count towards his finances?

I'd say ignorance is not an excuse here.

re: #110 gwangung

I'd say ignorance is not an excuse here.

It is if you're trying to prove someone knowingly perjured himself.

re: #109 Targetpractice

Wouldn't the state have to show that he purposefully lied on the paperwork? As opposed to stupidly believing that the account didn't count towards his finances?

I'm not sure where you personally set the bar at "purposefully," but that phone call, the fact that he set up the website and Paypal account plus the fact that the website existed for days before he was booked into jail make me think that's an incredibly easy hurdle to clear. I'd say it strains all credulity to see it as an innocent oversight.

re: #112 goddamnedfrank

I'm not sure where you personally set the bar at "purposefully," but that phone call, the fact that he set up the website and Paypal account plus the fact that the website existed for days before he was booked into jail make me think that's an incredibly easy hurdle to clear. I'd say it strains all credulity to see it as an innocent oversight.

The website, at least the one I saw, said that money was to go towards legal defense and living expenses. He may have believed that paying bond was not covered under either.

re: #111 Targetpractice

It is if you're trying to prove someone knowingly perjured himself.

Again we come back to the use of code, the discussion regarding < $10K transfers and the fact that he kept the information from his lawyer.

re: #111 Targetpractice

It is if you're trying to prove someone knowingly perjured himself.

Look at this as an incentive for knowing the law.

This sort of "lawyering" goes great on the internet, but it really doesn't play in real life.

re: #114 goddamnedfrank

Again we come back to the use of code, the discussion regarding < $10K transfers and the fact that he kept the information from his lawyer.

Indeed. But whether purposefully or not, he'd be in trouble.

I think part of this is to discourage the attempts to evade the spirit of the law by being too fine on the details and letter of the law.

re: #114 goddamnedfrank

Again we come back to the use of code, the discussion regarding < $10K transfers and the fact that he kept the information from his lawyer.

The code might have been to prevent other prisoners from finding out how much money he or his wife were sitting on. The $10K amounts look bad, and I don't know how to explain that. And as I said above, he very likely didn't feel comfortable enough with O'Mara to let him in on how much money was in the account.

re: #113 Targetpractice

The website, at least the one I saw, said that money was to go towards legal defense and living expenses. He may have believed that paying bond was not covered under either.

Repeated: ignorance of the law is not an excuse. A reasonable man would not think so.

re: #118 gwangung

Repeated: ignorance of the law is not an excuse.

Florida law is that the prosecution would have to prove that George knowingly lied under oath, whether verbally or written, that he was providing false information. Or show conclusively that there was no way he could have believed he was being truthful.

re: #117 Targetpractice

The code might have been to prevent other prisoners from finding out how much money he or his wife were sitting on.

C'mon, you don't really believe this do you? How would other prisoners possibly listen in on her end of the phone call?

re: #118 gwangung

Repeated: ignorance of the law is not an excuse. A reasonable man would not think so.

Exactly. When the court asks you to add up all your shit you add up all your shit. You don't play games. You don't specifically omit the giant internet windfall you ostensibly solicited to pay for your defense at your freaking bail hearing. If you're unsure about anything you ask your lawyer. If you choose to lie or hide shit from your lawyer, then you're well and duly boned. That's not ignorance, that's not uncertainty, that's fuckery, and the legal system takes a dim view on fuckery.

re: #120 goddamnedfrank

C'mon, you don't really believe this do you? How would other prisoners possibly listen in on her end of the phone call?

re: #118 gwangung

Exactly. When the court asks you to add up all your shit you add up all your shit. You don't play games. You don't specifically omit the giant internet windfall you ostensibly solicited to pay for your defense at your freaking bail hearing. If you're unsure about anything you ask your lawyer. If you choose to lie or hide shit from your lawyer, then you're well and duly boned. That's not ignorance, that's not uncertainty, that's fuckery, and the legal system takes a dim view on fuckery.

You can prove that O'Mara asked him how much was in the account and he lied about it?

First of all, banks are required to report all transfers of $10,000 or more to the IRS. The Zimmermans knew this. When they talked about $9.00 and $8.60 there was a corresponding transfer from the Pay Pal account in the amounts of $9,000 and $8,600. The State has all the records from Pay Pal and their bank accounts. The fund transfer dates/times occur shortly after the dates/times they had these conversations.

Plus, all phone calls by jail prisoners are recorded as a standard practice. There are large signs in several languages posted next to the phones the prisoners are allowed to use notifying them that all calls are being recorded.

re: #121 Targetpractice

You can prove that O'Mara asked him how much was in the account and he lied about it?

The alternatives are that O'Mara was unprofessionally lazy and didn't perform even this modicum of due diligence or that he willfully allowed the perjury presented by Mrs. Zimmerman under cross to be entered into the record without comment.

Anyway what matters is that the court seems to have been persuaded that he actively deceived them, which is why his bail was revoked rather than raised.

re: #123 goddamnedfrank

The alternatives are that O'Mara was unprofessionally lazy and didn't perform even this modicum of due diligence or that he willfully allowed the perjury presented by Mrs. Zimmerman under cross to be entered into the record without comment.

Anyway what matters is that the court seems to have been persuaded that he actively deceived them, which is why his bail was revoked rather than raised.

The judge was convinced by a motion that cherry-picked portions of the phone calls, as well as Shellie's testimony, and left out portions of her testimony that could have served to exculpate her, such as:

Q. And you mentioned also, in terms of the ability of your husband to make a bond amount, that you all had no money, is that correct?
A. To my knowledge, that is correct.
Q: Were you aware of the website that Mr. Zimmerman or somebody on his behalf created?
A: I’m aware of that website.
Q: How much money is in that website right now? How much money as a result of that website was —
A: Currently, I do not know.
Q: Who would know that?
A: That would be my brother-in-law.
Q: And is he — I know he’s not in the same room as you, but is he available so we can speak to him, too, or the Court can inquire through the State or the Defense?
A: I’m sure that we could probably get him on the phone.
Q: Okay. So he’s not there now.
A: No, he is not, sir.
Q: Do you have any estimate as to how much money has already been obtained or collected?
A: I do not.

That bolded section is not in the state's motion to revoke bond, nor is it in the affidavit charging her with perjury. And there's no indication in the motion that that section had been cut out.

re: #124 Targetpractice

The judge was convinced by a motion that cherry-picked portions of the phone calls, as well as Shellie's testimony, and left out portions of her testimony that could have served to exculpate her, such as:

That bolded section is not in the state's motion to revoke bond, nor is it in the affidavit charging her with perjury. And there's no indication in the motion that that section had been cut out.

WTH?

She stated in her testimony that she had no idea of the amount in the PP acct, when she clearly did.
It matters not, about the brother in law.
She lied. period.

re: #125 blueraven

WTH?

She stated in her testimony that she had no idea of the amount in the PP acct, when she clearly did.
It matters not, about the brother in law.
She lied. period.

Look at the questions asked.

Q: How much money is in that website right now? How much money as a result of that website was —
A: Currently, I do not know.

Q: Do you have any estimate as to how much money has already been obtained or collected?
A: I do not.

She's being asked if she knows how much was in the account at that very moment, which she could truthfully say she did not know. And the question about an estimate would only be false if she did have an estimate, which the state would have to prove.

re: #126 Targetpractice

Look at the questions asked.

She's being asked if she knows how much was in the account at that very moment, which she could truthfully say she did not know. And the question about an estimate would only be false if she did have an estimate, which the state would have to prove.

Oh brother...you are really reaching.

re: #127 blueraven

Oh brother...you are really reaching.

Like I already posted above, Florida law is that the prosecution has to show she knowingly lied to them, not that she was simply mistaken.

re: #124 Targetpractice

The judge was convinced by a motion that cherry-picked portions of the phone calls, as well as Shellie's testimony, and left out portions of her testimony that could have served to exculpate her, such as:

That bolded section is not in the state's motion to revoke bond, nor is it in the affidavit charging her with perjury. And there's no indication in the motion that that section had been cut out.

This is the second time that you've asserted that the State has an obligation to provide all available exculpatory information in their initial complaint affidavit. I'm not sure how many of these you've actually read, but that's simply not the case. Their requirement in that document is to make their case for probable cause. You seem to be conflating the prosecuting attorney's disclosure obligations under Brady v Maryland with their initial making of the case that a crime has been committed. Not the same thing at all.

re: #129 goddamnedfrank

This is the second time that you've asserted that the State has an obligation to provide all available exculpatory information in their initial complaint affidavit. I'm not sure how many of these you've actually read, but that's simply not the case. Their requirement in that document is to make their case for probable cause. You seem to be conflating the prosecuting attorney's disclosure obligations under Brady v Maryland with their initial making of the case that a crime has been committed. Not the same thing at all.

So the state may use half-truths to sway a judge to grant a motion, filed during a hearing that had nothing to do with said motion, leaving the defense no time to respond, and it's perfectly legal?

re: #51 Targetpractice

So you know your calls are being recorded, so you speak in the most asinine "code" plausible?

neither of these guys seem to be terribly swift when it comes to things like that...

re: #120 goddamnedfrank

If you're unsure about anything you ask your lawyer. If you choose to lie or hide shit from your lawyer, then you're well and duly boned. That's not ignorance, that's not uncertainty, that's fuckery, and the legal system takes a dim view on fuckery.

He may not be boned as bad as his wife, but now they have a big stick to use. I bet they offer him a plea bargain, in exchange for dropping charges against his wife. He may win because of SYG, but if he doesn't take a deal, she goes to jail.

If I were the prosecutor, I would also push to have her trial before his, and if it were to get to court, I would hammer her mercilessly, so they both understand the consequences of not taking the deal.

re: #131 Expand Your Ground

neither of these guys seem to be terribly swift when it comes to things like that...

And neither does the state, apparently, as they had these transcripts for days leading up to the hearing and apparently didn't crack this ingenious "code" until after O'Mara tells the judge about the contents of the account and secures them from George.

re: #133 Targetpractice

And neither does the state, apparently, as they had these transcripts for days leading up to the hearing and apparently didn't crack this ingenious "code" until after O'Mara tells the judge about the contents of the account and secures them from George.

Which means absolutely nothing.
She lied. To the judge. Under oath.

re: #134 blueraven

Which means absolutely nothing.
She lied. To the judge. Under oath.

She made statements that, to her, may have been truthful. The state has to prove otherwise.

re: #135 Targetpractice

She made statements that, to her, may have been truthful. The state has to prove otherwise.

They did.

re: #136 blueraven

They did.

They showed she knew at that very moment how much was in the account? Or that she had an estimate in mind but lied about it?

re: #137 Targetpractice

They showed she knew at that very moment how much was in the account? Or that she had an estimate in mind but lied about it?

Yes. She obviously could have provided a damn good estimate about how much was in the acct at that very moment.
She wouldn't have been charged with perjury had she been off by 10 or even 25K. Get real.

re: #130 Targetpractice

So the state may use half-truths to sway a judge to grant a motion, filed during a hearing that had nothing to do with said motion, leaving the defense no time to respond, and it's perfectly legal?

What half truths are you talking about, not re-presenting his wife's concocted BS story about the brother in law that the court heard her mention the first time around? The bail was revoked at a hearing dedicated to that end.

Secondly, the defense not only had ample time to respond to the hearing, according to the Motion to Revoke Bond it was the defense that told the court on 4/27/12 that Zimmerman's family members had "misinformed the court ... about defendant and his families finances." The bond wasn't revoked until 6/1/12.

re: #138 blueraven

Yes. She obviously could have provided a damn good estimate about how much was in the acct at that very moment.
She wouldn't have been charged with perjury had she been off by 10 or even 25K. Get real.

Sure she would have. She says "I think it's $50,000," but state comes back saying at the time she was giving her testimony, it was actually $75,000. She'd still have been charged, the accusation now that she tried to downplay how much was really in the account to attain a lower bond.

re: #139 goddamnedfrank

What half truths are you talking about, not re-presenting his wife's concocted BS story about the brother in law that the court heard her mention the first time around? The bail was revoked at a hearing dedicated to that end.

No, the hearing that the motion was filed at was one about a motion filed by the local news affiliates and their national partners to have discovery evidence released.

Secondly, the defense not only had ample time to respond to the hearing, according to the Motion to Revoke Bond it was the defense that told the court on 4/27/12 that Zimmerman's family members had "misinformed the court ... about defendant and his families finances." The bond wasn't revoked until 6/1/12.

And O'Mara is psychic, so he knew Corey would not only file to revoke bond, but when and what she'd use to do it. But he couldn't read his client to know how much was in the account. Has the court made sure George Zimmerman's head is shielded by lead?

re: #141 Targetpractice

Sure she would have. She says "I think it's $50,000," but state comes back saying at the time she was giving her testimony, it was actually $75,000. She'd still have been charged, the accusation now that she tried to downplay how much was really in the account to attain a lower bond.

You can believe all that if you want along with the tooth fairy and santa.
It doesn't make any difference. She lied and she knew she was lying.

re: #143 blueraven

You can believe all that if you want along with the tooth fairly and santa.
It doesn't make any difference. She lied and she knew she was lying.

And you can't prove it, the best you can do is say "I think she's lying." But under Florida law, that's not sufficient:

This Court has held that statements alleged to be perjurious must be of “empirical fact” and not of opinion, belief or perception…. One of the essential elements of perjury in official proceedings is that the person making the statement does not believe it to be true… The questions posed to elicit perjured testimony must be asked with the appropriate specificity necessary to result in an equally specific statement of fact.

Cohen v. State, 985 So.2d 1207 (Fla. App. 3 Dist. 2008)(citations omitted).

re: #144 Targetpractice

And you can't prove it, the best you can do is say "I think she's lying." But under Florida law, that's not sufficient:

Cohen v. State, 985 So.2d 1207 (Fla. App. 3 Dist. 2008)(citations omitted).

My God man, the judge was not asking for a belief or an opinion. he was asking about a fact.
Did she know how much money was in the acct?
Fact: she did
Fact: she lied about it

re: #145 blueraven

My God man, the judge was not asking for a belief or an opinion. he was asking about a fact.
Did she know how much money was in the acct?
Fact: she did
Fact: she lied about it

The judge was presented a motion that cherry-picked phone conversations and omitted a section of testimony that might have been cause to question the state as to why they didn't pursue the contents of the account further at the time of the hearing. Or, in short, the state lied by omission to the judge.

re: #142 Targetpractice

No, the hearing that the motion was filed at was one about a motion filed by the local news affiliates and their national partners to have discovery evidence released.

That was the 4/27/12 hearing, look at item 3 on Motion to Revoke Bond. That's the same hearing where defense told the court about the misrepresentation and got the ball rolling. The prosecutor's actual Motion to Revoke Bond is dated 6/1/12, over a month later.

And O'Mara is psychic, so he knew Corey would not only file to revoke bond, but when and what she'd use to do it. But he couldn't read his client to know how much was in the account. Has the court made sure George Zimmerman's head is shielded by lead?

LOLWUT?

re: #146 Targetpractice

The judge was presented a motion that cherry-picked phone conversations and omitted a section of testimony that might have been cause to question the state as to why they didn't pursue the contents of the account further at the time of the hearing. Or, in short, the state lied by omission to the judge.

And the judge is so stupid, he doesn't even look over the court transcript, or know what questions he asked?

I cant even believe I have spent this much time arguing about this. It is nuts.

Goodnight all. Sleep well.

re: #147 goddamnedfrank

That was the 4/27/12 hearing, look at item 3 on Motion to Revoke Bond. That's the same hearing where defense told the court about the misrepresentation and got the ball rolling. The prosecutor's actual Motion to Revoke Bond is dated 6/1/12, over a month later.

Prosecutors ask judge to revoke Zimmerman's bail

The motion was filed ahead of a hearing in which Circuit Judge Kenneth Lester Jr. was due to consider motions to keep much of the evidence in the case against Zimmerman under seal pending his trial, on a charge for which he faces a penalty of 25 years to life.

The April 27th hearing was one called shortly after the notification to the court as to the account's contents.

Ralph McTell sings The Zimmermann Blues

re: #150 freetoken

Yeah, Satchmo!

Morning, all

re: #150 freetoken

I'd have more to say but it's hard to type while swayin'.

Those who stood, those who fell: fatal cases

By way of TaNahesi Coates:

Tampa Bay Times has assembled a collection of SYG cases in which there were fatalities.

I haven't gone through them all, but: the examples that make me uncomfortable currently have the edge. Not just because of outcomes when set to trial, but the manner in SYG "logic" is deployed to justify lethal force:

Two brothers came home to find intruders in their house. They approached them with guns and when they saw one of the men aiming his own gun, they opened fire. One robber wound up dead and another was wounded. "I could have called 911 and in two days they let him go and they do it again," Anthony Julien was quoted as saying in the Orlando Sentinel after the break-in. "We shot first and then called 911."

It's too late in the evening for me to get profound about the social contract, but this just doesn't feel right. We've gone from self defense to letting people get away with killing as retribution or solution to grievance.

re: #155 The Ghost of a Flea

People want Law and Order, but they also want Low Taxes. So they go for the cheap splutions. The result is SYG and people like Sheriff Joe Arpaio.

Good morning to the very late and very early Lizards. Early shift here in Philly as things are getting lively over in Germany and I had to come in early to do some support work.

Crap, just when fuel prices have been going down
[Link: apnews.myway.com...]

'Morning.

Unless some one's talking about Oktoberfest, I hate the phrase "Things are getting lively in Germany."

re: #160 Decatur Deb

'Morning.

Unless some one's talking about Oktoberfest, I hate the phrase "Things are getting lively in Germany."

Do you prefer the phrase "Things are getting deadly in Germany"?

re: #161 Expand Your Ground

Do you prefer the phrase "Things are getting deadly in Germany"?

Too often it's the same statement in translation.

Morning Lizardim. A spectacular thunderstorm woke me up at 3:45 this morning. It's supposed to clear off and bring in terrible heat, with another round of storms to close the day. I'd just as soon skip the heat and keep the storms coming, it's more fun that way.

Donner and Blitzening here in Germany, too. Summer thundershowers to herald in the change in season when the rain starts getting warmer...

OT: there's a group of Christians around here that are apparently trying to get "Fifty shades of grey" and its sequels banned from stores and libraries. There were no less than 4 posts on my Facebook feed about it this morning.

re: #165 dragonfire1981

OT: there's a group of Christians around here that are apparently trying to get "Fifty shades of grey" and its sequels banned from stores and libraries. There were no less than 4 posts on my Facebook feed about it this morning.

Groan. These are the kinds of people that make me want to crawl in a hole somewhere and hide. Jesus wasn't like that, but of course, my saying that makes me a heretic and I should be burned at the stake.

re: #155 The Ghost of a Flea

I haven't gone through them all, but: the examples that make me uncomfortable currently have the edge. Not just because of outcomes when set to trial, but the manner in SYG "logic" is deployed to justify lethal force:
...
It's too late in the evening for me to get profound about the social contract, but this just doesn't feel right. We've gone from self defense to letting people get away with killing as retribution or solution to grievance.

Sometimes I think this is the downside to how our country was formed. Guns and violence were an unavoidable situation in much of the wilderness that became the US. The religious justifications for conflict (i.e., an eye for an eye) didn't help either.

To be honest, it's a simple solution. Someone wrongs you or gets in your way, kill 'em. Problem solved. It's the same reason so many people love the death penalty and now SYG. It's not a deterrent, it's revenge. Unfortunately, for many Americans, that's what justice boils down to.

Violence is easy. Civilization is hard.

re: #165 dragonfire1981

OT: there's a group of Christians around here that are apparently trying to get "Fifty shades of grey" and its sequels banned from stores and libraries. There were no less than 4 posts on my Facebook feed about it this morning.

Lol.
The last I checked, the Bible ain't exactly PG material....

A former Rutgers University student who was convicted of bias for using a webcam to see his roommate and another man kissing was released from jail Tuesday after serving 20 days of a 30-day sentence.

Read more: [Link: www.nypost.com...]

re: #165 dragonfire1981

OT: there's a group of Christians around here that are apparently trying to get "Fifty shades of grey" and its sequels banned from stores and libraries. There were no less than 4 posts on my Facebook feed about it this morning.

Can't they do the easy thing and just not read it or is that too hard?

re: #170 HappyWarrior

Can't they do the easy thing and just not read it or is that too hard?

It's not that, it's that they don't want other people to read it because it will corrupt their souls. Unfortunately for me, Christians have garnered a well-deserved reputation for being nosy busybodies who do nothing but try to impose their morality on everyone else.

re: #170 HappyWarrior

Can't they do the easy thing and just not read it or is that too hard?

Insufficient. It's a given that they're not going to read it. What they really want is you not being allowed to read it.

/

Yeah I get that and then these same people claim they're for small government. Yeah right. Be nice if they were at least honest that they're big government just as much if not more than the left.

re: #173 HappyWarrior

Yeah I get that and then these same people claim they're for small government. Yeah right. Be nice if they were at least honest that they're big government just as much if not more than the left.

Yeah. They're big government in a totally different way. They want to be left alone when it comes to taxes and their income, but they want to legislate their morality on everyone else. Which, if you ask me, is a heck of a lot bigger government than a few social services and publicly funded programs.

re: #174 thedopefishlives

Yeah. They're big government in a totally different way. They want to be left alone when it comes to taxes and their income, but they want to legislate their morality on everyone else. Which, if you ask me, is a heck of a lot bigger government than a few social services and publicly funded programs.

I still can't believe people buy that they're the party of small government and fiscal responsibility despite all evidence that differs.

Mornin' ruffians...

And he thinks he can stare down Iran?

Image: political-pictures-metaphors.gif

10 rockets from Gaza in recent hours; Hamas claims launches

Palestinians fire total of 16 rockets at Israel in past 24 hours; IAF strikes rocket squad, critically injuring one, at least 4 Palestinians killed in past day; Hamas claims responsibility for 10 launches.

Greets and saluts from the NYC metro area. Here's another gorgeously shot video that incorporates time-lapse and tilt-shift images of the NYC metro area as seen from the top of 8 Spruce - aka NY by Gehry (Frank Gehry's skyscraper in Lower Manhattan).

It's always a good idea to remind oneself of all that is beautiful in the world when so much bad stuff is going down (Syria, the debt crises, Pakistan, Afghanistan, etc.)

MSNBC's in Trouble for Selectively Editing Romney's WaWa Moment

re: #180 Killgore Trout

MSNBC's in Trouble for Selectively Editing Romney's WaWa Moment

But notice what the complaints are about. With the clipping, Romney's just praising Wawa. Without the clipping, Romney's caught being an idiot. (33 page form to change address at the post office? Really?)

re: #181 kirkspencer

Complete nontroversy.

re: #175 HappyWarrior

I still can't believe people buy that they're the party of small government and fiscal responsibility despite all evidence that differs.

They're not. They are the party of "we have the power and will tell you want to do."

re: #181 kirkspencer

But notice what the complaints are about. With the clipping, Romney's just praising Wawa. Without the clipping, Romney's caught being an idiot. (33 page form to change address at the post office? Really?)

Sort of. MSNBC shot themselves in the foot by being lazy and dishonest. They could have made a point about the factual errors in the point he was making but instead tried to manufacture s fake scandal about Mitt being out of touch with automatic hoagie machines.

The Supreme Court ruled that the federal government must reimburse Native American tribes for money they spent on federal programs. The feds had agreed to fully reimburse money tribes spent on programs like law enforcement, environmental protection and agricultural assistance, but Congress capped the amount of money earmarked for that reimbursement. The tribes sued, and the 10th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Denver said the money must be fully reimbursed.

The Supreme Court, in a 5-4 decision, ruled that the feds must fully reimburse the tribes.

Oh, and check out the majority/dissent split:
Majority opinion written by Sotomayor and joined by Justices Antonin Scalia, Anthony Kennedy, Clarence Thomas and Elena Kagan.

The dissent: Chief Justice John Roberts, and Justices Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Stephen Breyer and Samuel Alito dissented.

Bet you didn't see that one coming...

Good morning lizards!

Herkum derkum.

Well, I'm so out of touch I didn't even know they had automatic hoagies making machines. I'm also so out of touch that I also think that Subway "hoagies" taste like crap and their breads are disgusting. Nothing beats a handcrafted homemade hoagie or sub like they used to make all along the Jersey shore and points inland.

re: #185 lawhawk

The Supreme Court ruled that the federal government must reimburse Native American tribes for money they spent on federal programs. The feds had agreed to fully reimburse money tribes spent on programs like law enforcement, environmental protection and agricultural assistance, but Congress capped the amount of money earmarked for that reimbursement. The tribes sued, and the 10th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Denver said the money must be fully reimbursed.

The Supreme Court, in a 5-4 decision, ruled that the feds must fully reimburse the tribes.

Oh, and check out the majority/dissent split:
Majority opinion written by Sotomayor and joined by Justices Antonin Scalia, Anthony Kennedy, Clarence Thomas and Elena Kagan.

The dissent: Chief Justice John Roberts, and Justices Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Stephen Breyer and Samuel Alito dissented.

Bet you didn't see that one coming...

The mind boggles. Still, good for the tribes. We've already done enough to them without having to shaft them on reimbursement, of all things.

re: #187 Gus

Herkum derkum.

Well, I'm so out of touch I didn't even know they had automatic hoagies making machines. I'm also so out of touch that I also think that Subway "hoagies" taste like crap and their breads are disgusting. Nothing beats a handcrafted homemade hoagie or sub like they used to make all along the Jersey shore and points inland.

Down here in Virginia it's hard to find some decent bread. I miss the good food I grew up with in NJ.

re: #180 Killgore Trout

It borders on nontroversy. The clip was shortened and it does spin things slightly different than the whole quote. However, trying to verify the accuracy of the full quote doesn't help Mitt.

What agency required 33 pages to change an address? You can do change of address at the USPS on a single page form. Most change of address forms are a single page.

IRS Form 8822 - change of address form. 1 2-sided page (2d page is instructions).

DEEERS and TRICARE programs? Can be changed online.

Social Security annual statements rely on IRS information (see Form 8822). To change address for receipt of Retirement, Disability, Medicare or Survivor benefits
you can: (1) Go online; (2) call the SS at [no phone numbers allowed] (TTY [no phone numbers allowed]) between 7 a.m. to 7 p.m., Monday through Friday or (3) contact your local Social Security office.

So, to recap, no where is there a 33 page change of address form required, and in most instances you can do so with one page, or go online and do it electronically.

re: #187 Gus

WaWa doesn't have an automatic machine. It has an automated ordering machine - you get to customize the order, and it prints the receipt for you and issues an order to the kitchen staff to build your sandwich to order.

The WaWa sandwiches are pretty good for convenience store fare. Don't expect gourmet stuff (though their coffee selection is pretty good).

re: #189 NJDhockeyfan

Down here in Virginia it's hard to find some decent bread. I miss the good food I grew up with in NJ.

Ditto. They had a "real" sub shop down here in Littleton, CO. Haven't really tried any other places. Well, the place closed and they put up some remodeled mall for the blander population. Haven't been down their in a couple of years. You ever have those round sandwiches from some national chain? Forgot the name. They taste gross.

re: #191 lawhawk

WaWa doesn't have an automatic machine. It has an automated ordering machine - you get to customize the order, and it prints the receipt for you and issues an order to the kitchen staff to build your sandwich to order.

The WaWa sandwiches are pretty good for convenience store fare. Don't expect gourmet stuff (though their coffee selection is pretty good).

Ah. Thanks. Haven't really been paying attention. Total blowhole story really. Seriously. The crap people concern themselves with today. I haven't been to a WaWa since I escaped the East Coast.

re: #190 lawhawk

So, to recap, no where is there a 33 page change of address form required, and in most instances you can do so with one page, or go online and do it electronically.

Sorry, your fact doesn't fit the lie. Discarded.

I now want this optometrist guy to come forwards. The Romney camp could call him "Joe the Optometrist", to pick a name at random.

Then it'll turn out that he's not an optometrist, the form wasn't 33 pages long, he didn't change his address and he's not called Joe.

At the NC Democratic Party State Convention in NC they had many Resolutions for Consideration including this one:

26. BRINGING A JUST PEACE TO THE MIDDLE
EAST: ISRAEL AND PALESTINE (4TH CD)
June 16, 2012

WHEREAS, U.S. provides Israel $3 billion annually
in military aid;

WHEREAS, the Israeli occupation,
disenfranchisement and impoverishment of
significant numbers of the Palestinian population, and
Israel’s overwhelming military might and its role as
the only nuclear power threaten stability in a region
witnessing increased demands for democracy and an
end to autocratic rule;

WHEREAS, Israel uses this aid to continue its
illegal occupation, demolition of Palestinian homes,
expansion of existing illegal settlements built on
expropriated Palestinian land, and a continued
blockade of essential goods from Gaza, a blockade
causing a UN documented humanitarian crisis;

WHEREAS, U.S. military aid has caused increased
violence and insecurity to Israelis, Palestinians, and
helps subvert any prospect for peace;

WHEREAS, Israel's human rights violations and its
illegal occupation and settlements violate
International and U.S. law, including the U.S. Arms
Export Control Act of 1976; and

WHEREAS, the escalating tension between Israel,
the Palestinians, and the Arab world in the Middle
East threatens the peace and stability of the region
and the world;

THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the North
Carolina Democratic Party hold its elected congress
members and senators accountable for helping end
our government's role in continuing the Israeli
Palestinian tragedy by making the human rights of
both peoples central to U.S. foreign policy by ending
Israel's illegal occupation, by advocating for a viable
Palestinian state, and membership of that state in the
United Nations;

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the North
Carolina Democratic Party urge its congressional
delegation to support the following principles that
will insure a just and secure peace for both peoples,
including:

Bringing all parties, including Hamas, to the table to
negotiate an end to the Israeli Occupation and a
secure peace based on the 1967 borders;
An immediate end to settlement expansion and
removal of existing settlements in the West Bank and
East Jerusalem;

An end to Palestinian house demolitions;
A halt to further construction of the wall;
An end to the Gaza blockade;
The establishment of a nuclear free zone in the
Middle East;

Redirecting U.S. Military aid to Israel to promote
social and economic development for peace in both
Israel and Palestine;

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the North
Carolina Democratic Party press our NC
Congressional delegation to demand the State
Department implement Federal legislation that
prohibits use of U.S. military aid to support human
rights violations, breaches of international law and
UN Security Council Resolutions.

Ugh.

re: #196 NJDhockeyfan

Was it passed, or just put up for consideration?

re: #196 NJDhockeyfan

At the NC Democratic Party State Convention in NC they had many Resolutions for Consideration including this one:

Ugh.

Could use some tweaking but that seems like a reasonable resolution.

DemocratsAntiSemitismJimmyCarterBarbraStreisand

re: #198 Gus

Ugh.

Could use some tweaking but that seems like a reasonable resolution.

Maybe some major tweaking. It's kinda one sided.

re: #200 NJDhockeyfan

Maybe some major tweaking. It's kinda one sided.

Maybe. My people are from Argentina, Spain and Italy so it's really not my problem.

re: #198 Gus

Ugh.

Could use some tweaking but that seems like a reasonable resolution.

The one right after it for consideration as well was:

27. ISRAEL PALESTINE (2ND/4TH CD)
_____________________________________________________________________________________________
NC Democratic Party State Convention
Resolutions for Consideration - June 16, 2012 Page 13 of 33
WHEREAS, all inhabitants of Israel/Palestine have
the inherent right to “life, liberty and the pursuit of
happiness” (Quoting Thos. Jefferson); and
WHEREAS, such rights are secured to each person
by participation as an equal citizen of a democratic
and sovereign state;
THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the
government of the United States support these rights
for all, equally.

Not very specific, but takes a moral stance regarding the area without specifying interference or pinning blame.

War!

re: #200 NJDhockeyfan

Maybe some major tweaking. It's kinda one sided.

They should just insert "and we should drop bombs indiscriminately on population centers in the Arab world". That should get the Republicans to the negotiating table.

re: #163 thedopefishlives

Morning Lizardim. A spectacular thunderstorm woke me up at 3:45 this morning. It's supposed to clear off and bring in terrible heat, with another round of storms to close the day. I'd just as soon skip the heat and keep the storms coming, it's more fun that way.

I looked at the radar... y'all got hammered. How many more million dollars of coffee sales this morning in Minny?

re: #205 erik_t

I looked at the radar... y'all got hammered. How many more million dollars of coffee sales this morning in Minny?

Cloudy here today and warming up. Calling for highs in the upper 90s for tomorrow and Thursday. And then it will rain for the weekend.

Hmm. Classy.

Adidas cancels 'shackle' shoes after outcry
By Jesse Solomon, CNN
updated 9:02 AM EDT, Tue June 19, 2012

(CNN) -- German sports apparel maker Adidas withdrew its plans to sell a controversial sneaker featuring affixed rubber shackles after the company generated significant criticism when advertising the shoe on its Facebook page.

The high-top sneakers, dubbed the JS Roundhouse Mids, were expected to release in August, according to the Adidas Originals Facebook page. "Got a sneaker game so hot you lock your kicks to your ankles?" a caption below a photo of the sneakers read.

The June 14 post prompted plenty of criticism from around the web, with many of those commenting saying they felt the shackle invoked the painful image of slavery...

Here's something you don't see every day
Octopus hitches ride on dolphin's genitals

An octopus got the joyride of its life last week when it somehow became stuck on the belly of a bottlenose dolphin in the Ionian Sea. More specifically, the tentacled sea creature had a seat on the dolphin's genital slit.

Researchers with the Ionian Dolphin Project, part of the Tethys Research Institute, were observing a foursome of dolphins near the island of Kalamos off the west coast of Greece. Suddenly, one of the dolphins leapt out of the water with something strange dangling from its stomach. It wasn't until the researchers examined their photos of the leap that they realized the unidentified object was an octopus.

re: #207 Gus

Hmm. Classy.

Adidas cancels 'shackle' shoes after outcry
By Jesse Solomon, CNN
updated 9:02 AM EDT, Tue June 19, 2012

It's a fine line between crazy and stupid.

re: #208 Killgore Trout

Here's something you don't see every day
Octopus hitches ride on dolphin's genitals

Talk about "balling."

re: #190 lawhawk

So, to recap, no where is there a 33 page change of address form required, and in most instances you can do so with one page, or go online and do it electronically.

I've heard from wingnuts that the 33 page form is for Medicare providers. It seems to be a thinly true claim in that the CMS-855 Medicare Enrollment Form can be used to make changes of address by provider.

Making changes to a physicians medicare provider information can be difficult. Whether it is a change of address, adding an office address or changing other information, there are certain forms that must be filled out and sent to your medicare intermediary. The CMS 855 forms are generally used to apply to be a medicare provider or to make changes. For a new application see this Medicare web site. Any address change, phone or fax number change, name, specialty, contact person or billing agency must be reported to medicare within 30 days of the change. For changes only the section of the CMS 855B you are changing plus section 15 need to be completed and returned.

The CMS 855A form makes the claim that providers can use the PECOS (Provider Enrollment, Chain and Ownership System) on the internet to make changes to their enrollment information. I'm not sure what scope of changes are possible via this method though.

Of course lost in the derp is the fact that Medicare payments to providers can be huge, and that fraud in the system is a real, documented problem. Making sure that crucial information gets cross referenced for a change in where the checks get sent is probably an important way of preventing abuse.

re: #206 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Cloudy here today and warming up. Calling for highs in the upper 90s for tomorrow and Thursday. And then it will rain for the weekend.

You're getting the heat wave that is just on its way out here. Tomorrow it's supposed to be back down below 80 degrees. Should be beautiful weather for softball on Thursday, provided the ground dries out enough.

re: #209 iossarian

It's a fine line between crazy and stupid.

Yeah. It's disgusting. They pulled it but it shows how clueless Adidas is. Jesse Jackson gets it right:

One of Adidas' most high-profile condemnations came from the Rev. Jesse Jackson.

"The attempt to commercialize and make popular more than 200 years of human degradation, where blacks were considered three-fifths human by our Constitution is offensive, appalling and insensitive," Jackson said in a statement Monday, prior to Adidas's decision to withdraw them from the marketplace.

My first thought was incarceration and the US prison industry, etc. Given that we are imprisoning more people per capita than any other country in the world.

re: #213 Gus

Jesse Jackson gets it right:

I never thought I'd hear those words. Ever.

re: #211 goddamnedfrank

I've heard from wingnuts that the 33 page form is for Medicare providers. It seems to be a thinly true claim in that the CMS-855 Medicare Enrollment Form can be used to make changes of address by provider.

The CMS 855A form makes the claim that providers can use the PECOS (Provider Enrollment, Chain and Ownership System) on the internet to make changes to their enrollment information. I'm not sure what scope of changes are possible via this method though.

Of course lost in the derp is the fact that Medicare payments to providers can be huge, and that fraud in the system is a real, documented problem. Making sure that crucial information gets cross referenced for a change in where the checks get sent is probably an important way of preventing abuse.

Exactly. Of course, this kind of bureaucracy is part and parcel of a healthcare system that relies on payment for service (and a dizzying array of sources for that payment) rather than direct compensation.

Which is not to say that single payer eliminates the complexity and possibility of fraud altogether, just that a substantial part of the savings comes from overhead reduction.

re: #214 thedopefishlives

I never thought I'd hear those words. Ever.

It's part of the LGF healing process. ;)

re: #214 thedopefishlives

I never thought I'd hear those words. Ever.

It's unfortunate that Jesse Jackson is so wrong on some things, because he's right on quite a few others.

Not that this matters to the ooga booga crowd.

So our project team has just learned that for the fourth time in as many months, we are getting moved to a new room. This is really getting old, and it's completely ruining the team flow and dynamic. Of course, Corporate doesn't care about these things, they just want their shiny corner offices reserved for fat cats in suits who don't do anything but get paid anyway.

Saudi man executed for 'witchcraft and sorcery'

A Saudi man has been beheaded on charges of sorcery and witchcraft, the state news agency SPA says.

I'm still amazed. A man is beheaded by a system based on things that don't exist for a practice based on things that don't exist

re: #216 Gus

It's part of the LGF healing process. ;)

I've still got a ways to go. My wingnut upbringing isn't willing to give up without a fight.

If the chain holds with applied stress I see potential injuries. Imagine a 200 lb guys toe stepping between the chain and your leg while on the basketball court. Do the chains only come in prison orange? Can I get a red, white and blue one?

re: #215 iossarian

Exactly. Of course, this kind of bureaucracy is part and parcel of a healthcare system that relies on payment for service (and a dizzying array of sources for that payment) rather than direct compensation.

Which is not to say that single payer eliminates the complexity and possibility of fraud altogether, just that a substantial part of the savings comes from overhead reduction.

Also, if all a provider is doing is changing their address then they aren't filling out the entire form again. They're digging up their saved copy of the .pdf, updating a few lines, printing the revised document, signing it and sending it in.

re: #208 Killgore Trout

Here's something you don't see every day
Octopus hitches ride on dolphin's genitals

Depends on the clubs you hang out at!!

NTTAWWT!!!

re: #219 Gus

Saudi man executed for 'witchcraft and sorcery'

I'm still amazed. A man is beheaded by a system based on things that don't exist for a practice based on things that don't exist

But the people running that country are our best buddies! Not like that monster Saddam who had to be deposed at all costs for the good of the innocent Iraqi people!

Now where did I put those pallets of money? I had them here a moment ago...

re: #211 goddamnedfrank

So, they're bitching about a form's length when the information requested is designed to reduce the chances for fraud and waste (one of the GOP's longstanding matras about reducing spending is to go after waste and fraud).

Gotcha.

Does anyone else get a display issue when they open Top 10 Comments where the avatars are massively offset from the comment and block some of the text?

(I'm running IE8. Yes, I know, I know, but it's what is installed on the work laptop.)

re: #208 Killgore Trout

Here's something you don't see every day
Octopus hitches ride on dolphin's genitals

Is that an octopus on your genital slit or are you just happy to see me?

re: #218 thedopefishlives

So our project team has just learned that for the fourth time in as many months, we are getting moved to a new room. This is really getting old, and it's completely ruining the team flow and dynamic. Of course, Corporate doesn't care about these things, they just want their shiny corner offices reserved for fat cats in suits who don't do anything but get paid anyway.

hehe. I just get moved between floors in the building. With the projects winding down I presume the company will give up the temporary lease where I am now and move us back upstairs into the fully furnished floor. Maybe even getting my old cubicle back - which still has two file drawers full of my papers and miscellaneous stuff in it anyways.

re: #225 lawhawk

So, they're bitching about a form's length when the information requested is designed to reduce the chances for fraud and waste (one of the GOP's longstanding matras about reducing spending is to go after waste and fraud).

Gotcha.

It's like Obama's 3 million dollar "overhead projector" that turned out to be a Zeiss Universarium for the Haden Planetarium. There's a purposeful downplaying of contextually crucial details.

re: #224 iossarian

But the people running that country are our best buddies! Not like that monster Saddam who had to be deposed at all costs for the good of the innocent Iraqi people!

Now where did I put those pallets of money? I had them here a moment ago...

The two nosy cops dumped them into the harbor along with your car about five minutes ago...
;)

re: #219 Gus

Saudi man executed for 'witchcraft and sorcery'

I'm still amazed. A man is beheaded by a system based on things that don't exist for a practice based on things that don't exist

Sounds like Sharia Law at its most extreme form of application. Just the very thing we should be up in arms and fighting against...unless they are selling us oil and buying our weapons.

We really ought to be in a position to put political and economic pressure on regimes to change and become more modern & humane, but in the case of Saudi Arabia and most of the Gulf States, we have to just keep smiling and ignore their excesses...

re: #222 goddamnedfrank

Also, if all a provider is doing is changing their address then they aren't filling out the entire form again. They're digging up their saved copy of the .pdf, updating a few lines, printing the revised document, signing it and sending it in.

To be fair, there is a lot of apparent inefficiency in some government information gathering. The problem is that it's not clear that you're actually dealing with inefficiency, as opposed to unavoidable complexity.

Take, for example, the FAFSA (the application for student financial aid, for those a few years removed from college). This is a five-page form (last time I checked) with a lot of very detailed questions and scary disclaimers about how you can go to jail if you misrepresent your income or assets. And research shows that you can capture around 90% of the information with just three to five questions (basically family income and, I think, the value of your parents' home).

The problem is that the other questions cover a lot of areas where people (like our friend Mitt Romney) like to hide their money, such as luxury equestrianism businesses. So you have a choice between giving out Pell Grants to the Romney offspring* or making everyone who wants to go to college answer a question about whether their father takes tax deductions for dancing horses.

So it's a bit of a political conundrum. I personally would go for the short form and accept that a few smug suits are going to game the system, but I can see why other people choose the other course of action.

* Of course, this is presented to the average voter as "inner-city" families scamming the welfare system, with their refrigerators and TVs.

re: #215 iossarian

Speaking of health care costs and benefits, the Supreme Court issued a ruling on whether drug reps are classified as inside or outside salespersons under the Fair Labor Standards Act. In a 5-4 ruling (Alito, joined by Chief Justice Roberts, Scalia, Kennedy and Thomas) found that the reps were outside salespersons and not entitled to certain additional benefits, including overtime:

In his opinion, Alito noted the DOL’s vague language and problematic definitions, but he also wrote that the two GSK drug reps, who earned an average of more than $70,000 a year, were hardly the kind of employees that the Fair Labor Standards Act was intended to protect.

David Finegold, a senior vice president at Rutgers University with an expertise in the biopharmaceutical industry, said the opinion was not surprising given the Supreme Court’s recent spate of split decisions along the same idealogical lines.

“The historic precedent is that they (sales reps) haven’t been subject to overtime and the court was essentially saying, we’re staying with the status quo,’’ Finegold said.

The industry’s leading trade group, Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America, had argued before the Supreme Court in April that an opinion against GlaxoSmithKline would result in pharmaceutical companies paying out billions in back overtime pay.

Matthew Bennett, the trade group’s senior vice president, expressed support for the court’s decision. “The Supreme Court’s opinion is consistent with the longstanding sales practices of our member companies,’’
he said yesterday in a statement.

For those readers who are into issues of class in the US, the origins of the FAFSA are quite interesting I think - it arose out of the rather progressive attempts by the Ivy League schools to ensure that they were spending their financial aid money on genuinely needy students, rather than engaging in pointless efforts to compete with each other for wealthy academic stars.

The original forms had questions about the make and model of the family car, I believe.

re: #219 Gus

Saudi man executed for 'witchcraft and sorcery'

I'm still amazed. A man is beheaded by a system based on things that don't exist for a practice based on things that don't exist

In my darker moments, I sometimes think there's regions of the US that are about to slip into the Christian version of this madness.

re: #231 Expand Your Ground

Sounds like Sharia Law at its most extreme form of application. Just the very thing we should be up in arms and fighting against...unless they are selling us oil and buying our weapons.

We really ought to be in a position to put political and economic pressure on regimes to change and become more modern & humane, but in the case of Saudi Arabia and most of the Gulf States, we have to just keep smiling and ignore their excesses...

It's the year 2012 and some human cultures are still executing people for 'witchcraft and sorcery'.

re: #235 Mattand

In my darker moments, I sometimes think there's regions of the US that are about to slip into the Christian version of this madness.

They probably would if they thought they could get away with it.

re: #233 lawhawk

Of course - the drug companies aren't going to want to share any of that lovely money with the people who actually, you know, work for them.

Yet another instance of a Republican mantra ("companies need to be successful because they look after their employees") being, at its core, a pile of shite.

re: #235 Mattand

In my darker moments, I sometimes think there's regions of the US that are about to slip into the Christian version of this madness.

Yes. Maybe, who knows. But that still leaves one poor dummy that was beheaded for "witchcraft and sorcery." I'm sure there are others on "beheading row" over there.

re: #236 Gus

Dust off the dunking chair!

Just like there's people in Saudi Arabia that want to put a stop to that crap.

re: #219 Gus

Saudi man executed for 'witchcraft and sorcery'

I'm still amazed. A man is beheaded by a system based on things that don't exist for a practice based on things that don't exist

WTF.

In possession of books and talismans.

Seriously? WTF is wrong with humanity?

re: #241 Gus

Just like there's people in Saudi Arabia that want to put a stop to that crap.

I don't know if there's enough popular support within Saudi Arabia. A better candidate would be Iran but they aren't quite to the tipping point yet. Saudis have a very long way to go yet.

re: #243 Varek Raith

Seriously? WTF is wrong with humanity?

Humanity is a long term project.

re: #240 Amory Blaine

Dust off the dunking chair!

Prepare the soft cushions!

re: #244 Killgore Trout

I don't know if there's enough popular support within Saudi Arabia. A better candidate would be Iran but they aren't quite to the tipping point yet. Saudis have a very long way to go yet.

If your country is named after your ruling family, you're unlikely to be terribly far along on the enlightenment index. Just a general observation.