LA Voucher Students Taught Creationism, Climate Change Denial, and Bigotry

Building a separate subculture of ignorant religious fanatics
Wingnuts • Views: 55,306

Louisiana is embarking on a great fundamentalist adventure with Gov. Bobby Jindal’s wide-ranging school voucher program, which diverts state education funds to primarily religious private schools — many of whom will be teaching a curriculum designed by the most extreme and fanatical Protestant religious groups in America: Louisiana Voucher Students Headed to Schools Using A Beka, Bob Jones, and ACE Curricula.

Students will be taught that humans and dinosaurs walked on earth together, and this instruction will be paid for with public funds.

Some Louisiana students receiving publicly funded vouchers and attending private schools in 2012-2013 will be taught from educational media promoting young earth creationism, global warming denial, history that is not factual, and bigotry toward Catholicism, Mormonism, other Protestants, and non-Christian religions. This is predictable because some of the schools that are on the approved list to receive voucher students use curriculum from A Beka Books, Bob Jones University Press, and Accelerated Christian Education (ACE). Public funding of the teaching of creationism is already happening in Pennsylvania, Florida, and other states with “private school choice” programs.

This video clip has excerpts from some of these bizarre alternate universe textbooks (the full 35-minute video is here). Notice that the books are even hostile to modern mathematics, singling out “set theory” for some reason. Who knew that every time I used a regular expression in the LGF Blog code, I was walking hand in hand with the forces of Satan?

It’s easy to make fun of this kind of right wing fundamentalist hooey, but it’s more than a little disturbing that an entire subculture of children indoctrinated with such nonsense is being deliberately created right before our eyes, in the year 2012, with help from the Louisiana government.

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135 comments

1 theheat  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 2:51:25pm

And that subculture is getting high fives all over the place as the pushback to all that godless liberalism that's ruined the country. //

We're going Children of the Corn at warp speed.

2 Obdicut  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 2:51:39pm

This is insane. These kids aren't getting educated. They're not going to be able to hold down any kind of decent job. They're certainly not going to be making any new scientific discoveries.

3 nines09  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 2:51:54pm

The Flintstones will be a cartoon based on "reality"?

4 celticdragon  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 2:52:55pm

Charles:

I wrote a paper on this subject last year at Guilford College. Do you want me to send it to you in an email? There might be some useful details you could investigate.

5 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 2:53:26pm

re: #4 celticdragon

Sure, I'd like to see that. Thanks.

6 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 2:54:48pm
Who knew that every time I used a regular expression in the LGF Blog code, I was walking hand in hand with the forces of Satan?

Amusingly, a correctly-applied regular expression would have prevented the embarrassing cdesign proponentsists mishap that gave us all a good laugh at the creationists' expense during the Kitzmiller v. Dover School District trial a while back.

7 celticdragon  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 2:54:53pm

re: #2 Obdicut

This is insane. These kids aren't getting educated. They're not going to be able to hold down any kind of decent job. They're certainly not going to be making any new scientific discoveries.

These curricula like ABeka and ACE or Bob Jones are meant to mainstream kids towards Bible colleges and schools like Patric Henry which takes only home schoolers. Patric Henry supplies A LOT of interns for GOP congresscritters.

8 engineer cat  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 2:56:10pm

given B as the set of all people who are not like me, show how i can keep from intersecting with them in any way

9 theheat  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 2:57:00pm

re: #7 celticdragon

I've spent years translating 'English' written by graduates of fundie and ag schools for advertising and print publications. I think that's the part of my brain that's the mushiest now.

10 Varek Raith  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 3:03:33pm

This is why we are being surpassed in fields all over.

11 BongCrodny  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 3:06:25pm

Laissez les derp temps rouller!

12 Targetpractice  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 3:06:37pm

re: #10 Varek Raith

This is why we are being surpassed in fields all over.

Yep. Countries like China & India are slowly clawing their way into the 21st century, while we're busy sinking back into the 12th.

13 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 3:11:24pm

re: #10 Varek Raith

This is why we are being surpassed in fields all over.

I keep seeing ads from the oil companies about how we lag behind in science and math and how we need to change it. It'd be easier to change if they'd stop funding and supporting the right and the rest of these morons.

14 dragonfire1981  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 3:13:43pm

Explain to me again how this is constitutional.

15 Targetpractice  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 3:15:42pm

re: #14 dragonfire1981

Explain to me again how this is constitutional.

It's state, not federal funds, far as I know.

16 dragonfire1981  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 3:16:00pm

Oh I should also note that this is probably the first of many states to undertake such a program. Don't be surprised if Alabama, Georgia, Mississippi, Texas, Kansas, Oklahoma, Utah, Tennessee, Kentucky, West Virginia, Arizona and others try to go the same route.

17 dragonfire1981  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 3:18:57pm

re: #15 Targetpractice

It's state, not federal funds, far as I know.

You're right. It does appear to be state funded.

I was just doing some research and it appears opponents of this program are not sitting down quietly.

Also, it's worth nothing that Louisiana recently blocked an Islamic school that tried to get involved in the program. Hmm...

18 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 3:20:41pm

re: #15 Targetpractice

It's state, not federal funds, far as I know.

You're right - I corrected that in the text. Thanks.

19 gwangung  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 3:22:09pm

re: #15 Targetpractice

It's state, not federal funds, far as I know.

If it's state funds, it's still not constitutional, at least as far as the creationism is concerned.

20 BongCrodny  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 3:22:44pm

re: #13 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

I keep seeing ads from the oil companies about how we lag behind in science and math and how we need to change it. It'd be easier to change if they'd stop funding and supporting the right and the rest of these morons.

My boss, a Republican state senator, is moderate enough as to be under active consideration by the state employees' union for their endorsement.

The problem is is that he's obviously committed to getting more Republicans in the state house -- and if the employees' union thinks that having increasing numbers of Republicans in the state house is going to positively advance their agenda, they're crazy.

Big picture, people. Big picture.

21 Eventual Carrion  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 3:23:28pm

re: #7 celticdragon

These curricula like ABeka and ACE or Bob Jones are meant to mainstream kids towards Bible colleges and schools like Patric Henry which takes only home schoolers. Patric Henry supplies A LOT of interns for GOP congresscritters.

And they can all graduate with the highest honors that the institution can bestow. They will come out with high honors and very little marketable skills for the workplace. But they will be very ready to connive and fool many people with their fancy, top honors graduate credentials.

22 Targetpractice  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 3:27:18pm

re: #19 gwangung

If it's state funds, it's still not constitutional, at least as far as the creationism is concerned.

Unfortunately not, SCOTUS ruled back in '02 that it's constitutional, provided that parents are given a "wide choice" as to where they can send their kids with the vouchers. So long as parents are the ones who choose where to send the kids and can choose from secular as well as religious schools, it's constitutional.

23 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 3:28:28pm

re: #15 Targetpractice

It's state, not federal funds, far as I know.

Still Everson v. Board of Education extended the Establishment Clause of the 1st against the States. So the fact that it's state and not federal funds being used shouldn't be material to the constitutionality argument.

The fact that the same lawmakers who passed these provisions balked when attempts were made to apply them to Muslim schools should make it clear that there is a very clear de facto establishment of religion being attempted by the State.

Stakes escalated last week when, to the frustration of some lawmakers, the Islamic School of Greater New Orleans applied for federal funds under the voucher program. Republican state Rep. Kenneth Havard objected to the Islamic School's request for 38 government-paid student vouchers, saying he opposed any bill that "will fund Islamic teaching," the Associated Press reports.

"I won't go back home and explain to my people that I supported this," he said.

Also, note that the above article suggests that it is federal funds being doled out by the State.

24 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 3:31:39pm

Consider also that because of the vetting system involved in creating the list of schools that can receive vouchers, it's not a blind system.

So state money is being routed to schools that have an ideology that the state Board of Elementary and Secondary Education approves of...and guess what unstated criterion *cough* religous tests are being applied?

25 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 3:32:08pm

I've been back and forth on school voucher systems; for a bit, thought it might be a solution to a problem of failing public schools (of which there are many here in Louisiana). Then kept thinking about it and changed my mind awhile back, a year or so, maybe more, for just this reason - there is no way to gauge if the vouchers will be used for students to go to schools we know are good schools, or schools like one of the ones mentioned in the article.

"The school willing to accept the most voucher students -- 314 -- is New Living Word in Ruston, which has a top-ranked basketball team but no library. Students spend most of the day watching TVs in bare-bones classrooms. Each lesson consists of an instructional DVD that intersperses Biblical verses with subjects such chemistry or composition. - Reuters"

The New Living Word School has not yet built the facility that would house these students. The school is a part of the Rev. Jerry Baldwin's New Living Word church and Baldwin says the school is moving forward "on faith." The school currently uses the church's Sunday School classrooms. If the school gets the 315 voucher students, it would receive $2.7 million dollars in funding. The decision was made to give New Living Word School (and the other private schools) the voucher slots without a site visit from the state."

This is a fundamentalist group without enough members to support a school that is going to use taxpayer dollars, through the voucher system, to proselytize and try to enlarge their congregation and oh, meanwhile, also fail to really educate anybody.

I'm sick about this. People here who know about state government, and how it works, and how it works when things are working well and running smoothly, cannot stand Bobby Jindal for this situation and a whole HOST of others.

He and his administration are so secretive (and I've written about that here many times before), that unfortunately, many people in the rest of the state don't have had the wool pulled over their eyes and have any clue how pitiful this man is as a governor, or the things he is doing that will have long-lasting detrimental effects on our State.

26 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 3:35:40pm

re: #24 The Ghost of a Flea

Consider also that because of the vetting system involved in creating the list of schools that can receive vouchers, it's not a blind system.

So state money is being routed to schools that have an ideology that the state Board of Elementary and Secondary Education approves of...and guess what unstated criterion *cough* religous tests are being applied?

Schools are letting BESE know how many voucher students they are willing/able to accept. I know the high school my daughter went to is accepting very few - but they have an overflow of applicants every year, as do all the good private schools. It's schools like the one mentioned in my earlier comment that will end up with the vouchers - they are willing to take a lot of voucher students because they don't yet have a school (or have a new small school) and they want to use the voucher money to start a school or get more students.

27 BongCrodny  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 3:40:36pm

From the ACE (Accelerated Christian Education) website:

Students are taught to see life from God’s point of view,

No ego problems among ACE's administrators, apparently.

28 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 3:41:06pm

re: #26 reine.de.tout

Schools are letting BESE know how many voucher students they are willing/able to accept. I know the high school my daughter went to is accepting very few - but they have an overflow of applicants every year, as do all the good private schools. It's schools like the one mentioned in my earlier comment that will end up with the vouchers - they are willing to take a lot of voucher students because they don't yet have a school (or have a new small school) and they want to use the voucher money to start a school or get more students.

And that money comes out of the pool that would normally feed the public school system, making it even worse.

It's hard not to see a bleed the beast ideology at play.

29 Big Joe  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 3:42:41pm

The state needs levee shovelers, too.

30 TDG2112  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 3:43:56pm

Yeah, I ran into some YECs recently. It has REALLY freaked me out. I was polite and listened (and kept my mouth shut tight) to this mother of 9 explain to her kids about rain "Yes, God did a good job with that, but you know, there was no Rain before the flood, only mists coming up from the ground"

Not only was that scientifically stupid, it was a grammatical misreading of Genesis! (Warning YEC site, but it makes the point: [Link: www.answersingenesis.org...]

A few weeks ago they were back (Neighbor's reletives) and my daughter went out to play with them. I went out to. They're friendly and all, and they asked what we were doing the next day. I told them we were going down to JPL for the open house. They didn't know what it was, so I told them it was the Jet Propulsion Lavatory where they develop robots for Space missions they launch from Rockets. Suddenly I've gone from 3 or 4 enthusiastic boys in the 6-9 age range to 3 or 4 kids with the most frightened looks on their faces! WTF?! Boys+Rockets =? FEAR?!

It is my opinion we need another Moon mission. No, a MARS mission, to shut these people up. The US prior to WWII and the Cold War was shutting down science in the class room, successfully banning Evolution in the class room. Then BAM! The Russians get Sputnik up there and suddenly we've gotta have a Space Program too. We were turning out Scientists and Engineers like it the most important thing in the world. There were no Oil companies advertising that we needed to solve the American Math/Science education "Problem," there were no Gov't programs to encourage people study Science and physics. The need was Self Evident. Kids were inspired. Who here hasn't wanted to be an astronaut? Those that couldn't ended up being Engineers or scientists (and from that pool they pick Astronauts these days!). Science was cool.

Science needs to be cool again. Watch NASA TV August 5th, 10:31pm PDT.
If you don't know what I'm talking about:

Dare Mighty Things.

(I'd also recomend watching everything you can find of Neil deGrass Tyson, he makes the best case for Space anyone can make. He also rips into the ID crowd good on a 30 minute presentation

31 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 3:46:33pm

re: #29 Big Joe

The state needs levee shovelers, too.

Oh, this is the worst-looking hat I ever saw. Well, you buy a hat like this, I bet you get a free bowl of soup, huh?

Oh, it looks good on you though.

32 Michael McBacon  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 3:54:51pm

I just watched the whole documentary on Vimeo. Could these text books be more blatantly biased?

33 Obdicut  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 3:57:22pm

Maybe Jindal just wants to funnel the money to Bobby's School of Exorcism, Isolationism, and Weak Rebuttals.

34 abolitionist  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 3:57:40pm

Whitewashing of slavery starts at about 6:50. "Paradoxically, the Klan, in some areas of the country, tried to be a means of reform..."

They don't want to turn back the clock 50 years. Centuries, definitely.

35 darthstar  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 4:01:52pm

How's it going, everyone? Had a nice weekend in NYC. Wife's stepfather is doing okay, but on the downhill slide. Still, he remembered me and even engaged me in conversation. And he definitely seemed pleased to see us.

36 Michael McBacon  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 4:03:39pm

The full documentary, 'School Choice: Taxpayer-Funded Creationism, Bigotry, and Bias' here.

37 b_sharp  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 4:04:19pm

re: #8 engineer cat

given B as the set of all people who are not like me, show how i can keep from intersecting with them in any way

Try set 'eh'.

38 Obdicut  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 4:06:29pm

re: #26 reine.de.tout

And that's one of the inherent fallacies in the voucher argument; it doesn't actually give freedom to parents to get their kids into better schools. The schools can, and do, refuse to take students. That is a large reason why private schools are 'better' than public schools. If you're allowed to pick and choose who you accept, of course you're going to outperform a school that has to teach everyone regardless.

So we wind up with two problems-- one, well-meaning, not-hysterically-religious parents who just want to get their kids into a better school but find the voucher system doesn't really help them do that, since the barrier is not largely cost, and may wind up getting ripped off by some private school that takes in a bunch of voucher students even though they can't really handle it...

and we have the problem of the hyper-religious parents handicapping their kids for life by sending them to a religiously-based school, where they will not only not learn, but actively taught to be hostile to learning. It's like sending them to anti-school.

39 jaunte  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 4:08:20pm

There are no overlaps in the fundamentalist Venn diagram.

40 Michael McBacon  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 4:11:49pm

re: #39 jaunte

There are no overlaps in the fundamentalist Venn diagram.

WE MUST DEFEAT THE OVERLAPPING DRAGON!

41 jaunte  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 4:18:06pm
...it’s more than a little disturbing that an entire subculture of children indoctrinated with such nonsense is being deliberately created right before our eyes...

This dumbing down of education has become official GOP policy. TFN's analysis of the Texas Republican platform for 2012:

Undermining Public Education

Even though state lawmakers cut billions of dollars from public schools in 2011 (which resulted in the layoff of thousands of teachers across Texas), the state GOP platform explicitly calls for “reducing taxpayer funding to all levels of education institutions.” (P-17)

The platform also calls for a voucher scheme that would drain tax dollars from public schools to pay for tuition at private and religious schools. (P-12)

...snip...

Texas Republicans also repeat their previous opposition to teaching “critical thinking skills and similar programs” in public schools, suggesting that they “have the purpose of challenging the student’s fixed beliefs and undermining parental authority.” (P-12)

The party would prohibit “any paid public school employee or contractor to lobby the legislature or the SBOE, unless on an unpaid basis and in an unofficial capacity.” (P-12) That prohibition would limit the ability of classroom teachers and education specialists employed by public school districts to meet with SBOE members or speak to the full state board about issues such as the revision of curriculum standards and the adoption of textbooks.* In fact, a number of SBOE members have in the past publicly expressed their hostility to teachers who have testified before the board on such issues.

* "We've got to keep teachers from making teaching decisions!"

42 dragonfire1981  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 4:18:59pm

Interesting quote from the article about how Lousiana blocked the Islamic school...

Stakes escalated last week when, to the frustration of some lawmakers, the Islamic School of Greater New Orleans applied for federal funds under the voucher program. Republican state Rep. Kenneth Havard objected to the Islamic School's request for 38 government-paid student vouchers, saying he opposed any bill that "will fund Islamic teaching," the Associated Press reports.

"I won't go back home and explain to my people that I supported this," he said.

You can't have it both ways jackass. Either you make no room for religious entities or you make room for ALL religious entities. Even as a Christian I believe this.

43 dragonfire1981  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 4:20:31pm

Also I am the only one who finds it rather scary that, in many circumstances, these kinds of "education" issues are spun by supporters as being necessary because they'll help kids to the learn the "Truth" that is being withheld from them at scary, Liberal public schools?

44 wrenchwench  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 4:25:47pm

“Was Politico’s Suspension of Joe Williams Race-Based?”

[...]

In each of the tweets and in the two television appearances, Mr. Williams presented opinions not in line with Politico‘s typical (and in my view, biased) coverage. For example, on October 20, 2010, Politico reporter Glenn Thrush wrote an article entitled “President Obama’s White Working Class Problem.” Not just working class, mind you – white working class.

[...]

Remember Politico founding editor Jim VandeHei who co-wrote the Williams suspension memo and touted Politico’s “clear and inflexible responsibility to cover politics fairly and free of partisan bias?”

[...]

In fact, the very first sentence of this article by VandeHei and Mike Allen reads “President Barack Obama’s campaign wants to turn Mitt Romney into the candidate of old, straight, white men.” On what is this coverage of “politics fairly and free of partisan bias” based? It’s not clear since the very next sentence reads, “Of course, {Obama’s} aides would never state it so crudely. But that’s the unmistakable aim of their political strategy of the past two months.” Interesting; this seems like opinion, not fact. Because it’s not actually based on facts.

[...]

Read it all.

45 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 4:29:53pm

re: #41 jaunte

This dumbing down of education has become official GOP policy. TFN's analysis of the Texas Republican platform for 2012:

Undermining Public Education

* "We've got to keep teachers from making teaching decisions!"

This is just about unbearable, truly terrifying. I don't care at this point if SpaceX founder Elon Musk is tainted by association with PayPal and Ebay. He and entrepreneurs like him offer the best chance we have of getting some intelligent, rational people off this rock before the whole shithouse goes up in flames.

46 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 4:33:52pm

re: #43 dragonfire1981

Also I am the only one who finds it rather scary that, in many circumstances, these kinds of "education" issues are spun by supporters as being necessary because they'll help kids to the learn the "Truth" that is being withheld from them at scary, Liberal public schools?

Read this piece about what goes on in Christian universities and seminaries. It's all about how scholars are pressured to tow...and teach...a doctrinal line.

They've already started building the bubble.

47 engineer cat  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 4:34:22pm

Accelerated Christian Education

but they still won't accept my paper showing precisely how many angels it takes to hold up a 747

48 darthstar  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 4:39:20pm

The GOP needs to find a candidate with more than a sophomoric level of maturity.

49 Achilles Tang  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 4:45:30pm

re: #48 darthstar

[Embedded content]

The GOP needs to find a candidate with more than a sophomoric level of maturity.

If the candidate is sophomoric, what does that make the supporters?

50 Achilles Tang  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 4:46:34pm

re: #42 dragonfire1981

Interesting quote from the article about how Lousiana blocked the Islamic school...

You can't have it both ways jackass. Either you make no room for religious entities or you make room for ALL religious entities. Even as a Christian I believe this.

Even as an atheist I believe this.

51 allegro  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 4:47:26pm

re: #49 Achilles Tang

If the candidate is sophomoric, what does that make the supporters?

nut cups?

52 celticdragon  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 4:51:08pm

You should have the email now, Charles. Thanks, and I hope you find the info useful.

53 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 4:51:42pm

What. The. Fuck?

Pam is now claiming that JFedLA is apologizing for cancelling her hate fest.

According to [Pamz] sources at ZOA, the LA Jewish Federation has been apologizing profusely and repeatedly for cancelling my talk at JFed LA headquarters, and pleading for a hudna.

Apparently the whining Jewicidal left-wing donor kapos were the real threat. But this is gorgeous, and these cowards will long remember their stunning betrayal and fall from grace. The blowback was overwhelming, and proved too much for these craven quislings.

Link to Google search results. Can't locate the cache.

54 darthstar  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 4:52:43pm

Well, isn't this special? Eric Cantor is shorting US Treasury bonds...in other words, he stands to profit if our economy goes deeper into the shitter.

[Link: thinkprogress.org...]

Last month, Salon reported that House Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-VA) is personally invested in a fund that “aggressively ‘shorts’ long-term U.S. Treasury bonds, meaning that it performs well when U.S. debt is undesirable.”

55 Obdicut  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 4:53:08pm

re: #53 Learned Mother of Zion

I hope the phraseology was, "I'm sorry you're a crazy asshole."

56 Obdicut  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 4:53:39pm

re: #54 darthstar

That is wrong on every level, except, probably, the legal.

57 austin_blue  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 5:01:30pm

Education or propaganda?

You be the judge, tonight! on Curricula For America!!

58 dragonfire1981  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 5:08:33pm

re: #46 The Ghost of a Flea

Read this piece about what goes on in Christian universities and seminaries. It's all about how scholars are pressured to tow...and teach...a doctrinal line.

They've already started building the bubble.

That's a good piece. In particular I like this quote:

. An education does not confirm what we already know, but exposes us to new things in order to broaden our horizons.

59 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 5:09:28pm

re: #54 darthstar

Well, isn't this special? Eric Cantor is shorting US Treasury bonds...in other words, he stands to profit if our economy goes deeper into the shitter.

[Link: thinkprogress.org...]

I skimmed their source material.....

But to be fair to Mr. Cantor, he also owns a lot of Treasury debt (updated to add: as part of his pension), and the TBT merely hedges some of that exposure, his spokesperson tells Salon.

60 Digital Display  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 5:09:33pm

Boy..The SB1070 case today seems to be really muddled. Each side is declaring victory and vindication with great fanfare.
You know what this means don't you?
SCOTUS threw each side a bone. They punted it right back and washed their hands of it..Only the Federal Government controls immigration Laws.
/I think, It's still alittle bit muddled

61 Michael McBacon  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 5:11:14pm

re: #53 Learned Mother of Zion

Pam is now claiming that JFedLA is apologizing for cancelling her hate fest.

I think that was a voice in her head.

62 Achilles Tang  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 5:13:35pm

re: #58 dragonfire1981

An education does not confirm what we already know, but exposes us to new things in order to broaden our horizons.

That is a good one. Translation:

An education does not confirm what the bible tells us, but exposes us to new things in order to broaden our ability to recognize falsehoods.

63 darthstar  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 5:14:35pm

re: #59 Killgore Trout

I skimmed their source material...

So it's okay that he chooses to bet against America in your book?

64 Achilles Tang  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 5:16:21pm

re: #63 darthstar

So it's okay that he chooses to bet against America in your book?

I think it looks bad for him, but for anyone else it is called hedging and probably managed by someone else.

65 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 5:17:21pm

re: #48 darthstar

The GOP needs to find a candidate with more than a sophomoric level of maturity.

I would guess that Sons-of-Mitt are taking turns behind the wheel.

66 dragonfire1981  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 5:17:23pm

Because who gives a shit about federal law enforcement:

Romney: States have right to secure their borders

Mitt Romney on Monday said states have a duty and a right to secure their borders even as he declined to address the merits of the Supreme Court's decision to strike down key parts of Arizona's tough immigration enforcement law.

The likely Republican nominee instead used Monday's ruling as an opportunity to criticize President Barack Obama for inaction on immigration reform until recently. Romney called for a bipartisan national immigration strategy.

"This represents yet another broken promise by this president. I believe that each state has the duty — and the right — to secure our borders and preserve the rule of law, particularly when the federal government has failed to meet its responsibilities," Romney said in a written statement released before he left Salt Lake City Monday morning to fly to a planned fundraiser in Arizona.

I hope the team is careful in Arizona, I understand Romneybot sometimes behaves erratically when exposed to intense heat.

67 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 5:17:34pm

Uh oh - whole lotta right wing retweeting going on...

68 darthstar  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 5:18:21pm

re: #64 Achilles Tang

I think it looks bad for him, but for anyone else it is called hedging and probably managed by someone else.

Well, hedging or not, Eric Cantor still looks like he just bit into a turd.

69 dragonfire1981  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 5:18:57pm

re: #67 Charles Johnson

Uh oh - whole lotta right wing retweeting going on...

[Embedded content]

Umm, who the hell is Aaron Worthing? I've never heard of him before.

70 Digital Display  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 5:19:31pm

re: #63 darthstar

So it's okay that he chooses to bet against America in your book?

Well.. It does make sense.. If you are in the GOP and bad mouthing the economy for 3 years and don't believe in the full faith of the US Gov't Treasury..
Then Hell yes..You would be crazy not to sell short..
/Crazy world Darth

71 Mentis Fugit  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 5:20:33pm

re: #30 TDG2112

[...] I told them we were going down to JPL for the open house. They didn't know what it was, so I told them it was the Jet Propulsion Lavatory where they develop robots for Space missions they launch from Rockets. [...]

Yeah, I've had curries like that.
sorry

72 Targetpractice  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 5:20:43pm

re: #60 Digital Display

Boy..The SB1070 case today seems to be really muddled. Each side is declaring victory and vindication with great fanfare.
You know what this means don't you?
SCOTUS threw each side a bone. They punted it right back and washed their hands of it..Only the Federal Government controls immigration Laws.
/I think, It's still alittle bit muddled

Best I can tell, the only reason it wasn't a clean sweep for the Feds is that the "papers, please" provision of the law was seen as being valid under the argument made by the state that it has the authority to check on immigration status if the arrest is legal. It doesn't save it, it just grants it a temporary reprieve while civil rights violation cases go through the courts.

73 engineer cat  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 5:21:48pm

Romney: States have right to secure their borders

finally, new york will be able to keep out those jersey drivers once and for all

74 dragonfire1981  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 5:22:07pm

re: #69 dragonfire1981

Umm, who the hell is Aaron Worthing? I've never heard of him before.

Ok, just looked him up and from what I saw I am highly suspicious of those tweets. This guy seems to think he's waaay more important than he actually is.

75 dragonfire1981  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 5:22:47pm

re: #65 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012

I would guess that Sons-of-Mitt are taking turns behind the wheel.

I still say that Romney bus knock knock joke posted about a week ago was freaking brilliant.

76 b_sharp  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 5:23:37pm

re: #67 Charles Johnson

Uh oh - whole lotta right wing retweeting going on...

[Embedded content]

I call bull shit.

77 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 5:26:15pm
78 Varek Raith  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 5:27:21pm

re: #67 Charles Johnson

Uh oh - whole lotta right wing retweeting going on...

[Embedded content]

And I'm the Queen of England.
NEXT!

79 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 5:28:53pm

re: #69 dragonfire1981

Umm, who the hell is Aaron Worthing? I've never heard of him before.

He is the guy who poked Br3tt K!mb3rl3n with a pointy stick, then cried when he got bitten.

80 Varek Raith  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 5:30:27pm

I challenge any of these people who claimed to be swatted to prove it.
You know, pictures.
Or, hell, a simple news paper article. Swat deployments usually make the local news.
Bet you none of them can provide that.

81 darthstar  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 5:30:35pm

re: #78 Varek Raith

And I'm the Queen of England.
NEXT!

Nobody has ever doubted that.

82 ozbloke  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 5:31:45pm

We home schooled our two oldest children through ACE.
They did there first ten of twelve years that way
To be honest when each entered the public system for their final two years they were both well ahead of the public school level of education.

Also I want to point out that kids don't always turn out the way their parents brought them up.

They have minds of their own, and will make their own choices, we all do.

83 Artist  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 5:31:50pm

re: #80 Varek Raith

I challenge any of these people who claimed to be swatted to prove it.
You know, pictures.
Or, hell, a simple news paper article. Swat deployments usually make the local news.
Bet you none of them can provide that.

This. So much.

84 Targetpractice  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 5:34:05pm

re: #80 Varek Raith

I challenge any of these people who claimed to be swatted to prove it.
You know, pictures.
Or, hell, a simple news paper article. Swat deployments usually make the local news.
Bet you none of them can provide that.

Yeah, when SWAT gets deployed and it turns out to be a false alarm, it would be highly unusual for the media not to mention it at all.

85 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 5:35:09pm

re: #64 Achilles Tang

I think it looks bad for him, but for anyone else it is called hedging and probably managed by someone else.

Maybe but I think one of the articles mentions his wife was a big wig in some financial firm and his portfolio is crazy heavy on finical stocks. His short on on treasuries is very small (1,000-15,000) compared with the rest of his portfolio. I'm not a financial genius but I don't see anything sinister.

86 dragonfire1981  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 5:38:14pm

re: #84 Targetpractice

Yeah, when SWAT gets deployed and it turns out to be a false alarm, it would be highly unusual for the media not to mention it at all.

Wasn't there some right wing commentator awhile back who claimed he got "swatted" when in reality it was just a couple of cops at the door asking questions?

87 Varek Raith  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 5:38:29pm
88 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 5:40:16pm

re: #87 Varek Raith

Hey, I'm a nice guy.
You can help, too—if you believe you’ve been a victim of a “swat” please contact your local FBI office.

Field Offices.

Put up or shut up, wingnuts.

They've already made reports and local DA's are investigating.

89 Varek Raith  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 5:41:06pm

Good.
Then Aaron should do the same.

90 Varek Raith  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 5:41:57pm

It may have happened to him, I don't know.
But!
He's such a proven liar that I need more to go on than his 'honor'.

91 bratwurst  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 5:42:04pm

re: #80 Varek Raith

I challenge any of these people who claimed to be swatted to prove it.
You know, pictures.
Or, hell, a simple news paper article. Swat deployments usually make the local news.
Bet you none of them can provide that.

Agreed. If it is indeed happening, then it should absolutely be investigated and the perps prosecuted to the full extent of the law. However, seeing as the alleged victims all seem to have a well documented persecution complex, pardon me for being slightly dubious.

92 Varek Raith  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 5:43:41pm

Global H1N1 death toll may be 15 times higher than previously reported

When the new H1N1 virus, often referred to as swine flu, spread around the world three years ago, 18,500 deaths were reported to the World Health Organization in the first 16 months of the pandemic. Based on this new study, published online in The Lancet Infectious Diseases, researchers estimate 284,400 people actually died in the first year the virus was circulating around the world.

According to a model developed by the study authors, the actual number of deaths linked to the H1N1 flu virus could range anywhere from 151,700 to 575,400. Lead study author Dr. Fatimah Dawood says she and her colleagues used three types of data to come up with their estimates:

93 Achilles Tang  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 5:45:22pm

Do police really send out swat teams based on phone calls (untraceable ones) before sending a patrol car?

94 darthstar  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 5:46:17pm
95 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 5:46:35pm

re: #75 dragonfire1981

I still say that Romney bus knock knock joke posted about a week ago was freaking brilliant.

Missed it!!

96 b_sharp  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 5:46:40pm

re: #93 Achilles Tang

Do police really send out swat teams based on phone calls (untraceable ones) before sending a patrol car?

Only in Alternate Universe #666.

97 engineer cat  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 5:52:28pm

re: #95 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012

Missed it!!

the ministry of knock-knock jokes demands an authenticated copy of this be submitted for certification

98 Kragar  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 5:52:33pm

When these assholes wanted to teach their own kids this crap in their bullshit homeschools, I thought it was sad, but whatever, its their right to raise ignorant twits.

But now they want to force an entire nation to believe their superstitious crap and force everyone down to their level because they're too stupid to understand real science? They can go and fuck right off.

99 freetoken  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 5:53:11pm

re: #46 The Ghost of a Flea

Read this piece about what goes on in Christian universities and seminaries. It's all about how scholars are pressured to tow...and teach...a doctrinal line.

They've already started building the bubble.

That (being in a bubble) has been going on for a very long time.

There's a whole series of firings/releases that have happened in Christian colleges in this country the past couple of years, as college executives at these schools bow to their parent religious organizations.

Enns himself ran into trouble as his critical (as in academic, as in from the Wellhausen heritage) views of the Bible became pronounced.

Sometimes it is over evolution, sometimes it is over a non-fundamentalist view of the Bible - both topics push the buttons of denomination leaders.

100 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 5:54:55pm

re: #67 Charles Johnson

Uh oh - whole lotta right wing retweeting going on...

[Embedded content]

I'll believe when I see proper evidence. Otherwise its just DERP.

101 ozbloke  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 5:55:01pm

re: #98 Kragar

When these assholes wanted to teach their own kids this crap in their bullshit homeschools, I thought it was sad, but whatever, its their right to raise ignorant twits.

But now they want to force an entire nation to believe their superstitious crap and force everyone down to their level because they're too stupid to understand real science? They can go and fuck right off.

You, you talkin to me?
#82

102 Kragar  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 5:58:40pm

re: #101 ozbloke

You, you talkin to me?
#82

Did you teach them cavemen walked with dinosaurs and the earth was only 5000 years old?

103 ozbloke  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 6:03:32pm

re: #102 Kragar

Did you teach them cavemen walked with dinosaurs and the earth was only 5000 years old?

Can you point me to that scripture?

104 CuriousLurker  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 6:08:17pm

re: #88 Killgore Trout

They've already made reports and local DA's are investigating.

According to Frey, the first one (Stack) was over a year ago, and his own incident was about a week shy of a year ago. A whole year is a damned long time for an investigation. He claims that he reported his case to the FBI in the same day it happened, but that they've "failed to follow up on a number of leads" he's given them. He says there is "circumstantial evidence suggesting who may be responsible".

It all sounds kinda weak to me (considering the sources pushing the stories).

105 Kragar  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 6:09:25pm

re: #103 ozbloke

Can you point me to that scripture?

Nope, but there is an entire industry which apparently can. It was kind of the point of the article.

106 ozbloke  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 6:14:46pm

re: #105 Kragar

Nope, but there is an entire industry which apparently can. It was kind of the point of the article.

I wasn't responding to the article, just your post.

When these assholes wanted to teach their own kids this crap in their bullshit homeschools, I thought it was sad, but whatever, its their right to raise ignorant twits.

But now they want to force an entire nation to believe their superstitious crap and force everyone down to their level because they're too stupid to understand real science? They can go and fuck right off.

We home schooled our two eldest, so are we assholes, and our children ignorant twits?

By the way, I don't believe anyone can force you to believe anything, your mileage may vary.

107 Kragar  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 6:18:52pm

re: #106 ozbloke

I wasn't responding to the article, just your post.

When these assholes wanted to teach their own kids this crap in their bullshit homeschools, I thought it was sad, but whatever, its their right to raise ignorant twits.

But now they want to force an entire nation to believe their superstitious crap and force everyone down to their level because they're too stupid to understand real science? They can go and fuck right off.

We home schooled our two eldest, so are we assholes, and our children ignorant twits?

By the way, I don't believe anyone can force you to believe anything, your mileage may vary.

And I asked you if you taught them the kind of crap these guys are trying to teach in LA.

If not, congratulations, you were not one of the assholes I was talking about.

If so, then yes, the statement was including you.

108 ozbloke  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 6:26:51pm

re: #107 Kragar

And I asked you if you taught them the kind of crap these guys are trying to teach in LA.

If not, congratulations, you were not one of the assholes I was talking about.

If so, then yes, the statement was including you.

Well I think its ignorant for people to presume all parents who home school are assholes.
And only ignorant twits would think that kids won't grow up thinking for themselves.

109 wheat-dogg  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 6:31:27pm

re: #46 The Ghost of a Flea

Read this piece about what goes on in Christian universities and seminaries. It's all about how scholars are pressured to tow...and teach...a doctrinal line.

They've already started building the bubble.

I knew good people at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Loiusville who were ousted -- or left in disgust -- because they were too "liberal." That was more than a decade ago, maybe two.

110 Obdicut  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 6:32:13pm

re: #108 ozbloke

Well I think its ignorant for people to presume all parents who home school are assholes.

But he didn't. You misinterpreted what he said. He was referring to the people who homeschool using these sorts of textbooks and lesson plans.

Calm down.

111 Kragar  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 6:33:11pm

re: #108 ozbloke

Well I think its ignorant for people to presume all parents who home school are assholes.
And only ignorant twits would think that kids won't grow up thinking for themselves.

"Assholes who home school" and "Home Schoolers are assholes" are completely different statements.

112 ozbloke  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 6:38:50pm

re: #110 Obdicut

But he didn't. You misinterpreted what he said. He was referring to the people who homeschool using these sorts of textbooks and lesson plans.

Calm down.

Thanks Obdi,

We home schooled for ten years using ACE.
Not that I wish to go back through all the texts, however I would say that the 'controversial' Christian theology wouldn't make up .001% of what my children read.

To be honest, I'm calm, any more laid back and I'd fall over.

113 Obdicut  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 6:41:15pm

re: #112 ozbloke

Well, sorry, I think you did a terrible disservice to your children, then. ACE is the one that is teaching that the loch ness monster disproves evolution, that humans and dinosaurs co-existed, etc.

Teaching kids lies about evolution is not a good idea, and you chose a terrible curriculum to use for your kids.

114 ozbloke  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 6:41:46pm

re: #111 Kragar

"Assholes who home school" and "Home Schoolers are assholes" are completely different statements.

You said:
When these assholes wanted to teach their own kids this crap in their bullshit homeschools, I thought it was sad, but whatever, its their right to raise ignorant twits.

This thread speaks about ACE, we did ACE, so we must be part of the 'bullshit homeschools'.

115 Obdicut  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 6:43:01pm

re: #114 ozbloke

Do you disbelieve in evolution yourself?

116 ozbloke  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 6:45:10pm

re: #113 Obdicut

Well, sorry, I think you did a terrible disservice to your children, then. ACE is the one that is teaching that the loch ness monster disproves evolution, that humans and dinosaurs co-existed, etc.

Teaching kids lies about evolution is not a good idea, and you chose a terrible curriculum to use for your kids.

As I said in my first post, when my children moved to the public school system in the final two years, they were way ahead of their respective classes.
FWIW, they did physics, chemistry, biology and advanced math.

I respect your right to be not impressed, but I think you are focusing on a minuscule point in a long education.

117 wheat-dogg  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 6:46:01pm

re: #114 ozbloke

If your kids went to secular universities, then they'll be fine. You may think ACE is the shiznit, but its bias is plain. Try looking at it more critically.

118 ozbloke  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 6:47:20pm

re: #115 Obdicut

Do you disbelieve in evolution yourself?

If you mean biologically, then yes.

119 Obdicut  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 6:48:07pm

re: #116 ozbloke

As I said in my first post, when my children moved to the public school system in the final two years, they were way ahead of their respective classes.
FWIW, they did physics, chemistry, biology and advanced math.

I'm sorry, how were they way ahead in biology when they didn't understand evolution?

How were they ahead in physics if they thought solar fusion didn't occur?

I respect your right to be not impressed, but I think you are focusing on a minuscule point in a long education.

Evolution is one of the most important scientific facts in existence. Saying it is minuscule is insane.

120 ozbloke  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 6:48:43pm

re: #117 wheatdogg

If your kids went to secular universities, then they'll be fine. You may think ACE is the shiznit, but its bias is plain. Try looking at it more critically.

Thanks wheatdog,

I spent ten years with it, how long should I spend?
How much time have you spent looking at its curriculum?

121 Obdicut  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 6:49:12pm

re: #118 ozbloke

If you mean biologically, then yes.

I'm sorry, evolution occurs. I can only conclude that you're religiously zealous to the point where you ignore scientific evidence.

If you don't believe in evolution, how do you explain the evolution of drug-resistant bacteria?

122 Kragar  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 6:51:19pm

re: #121 Obdicut

I'm sorry, evolution occurs. I can only conclude that you're religiously zealous to the point where you ignore scientific evidence.

If you don't believe in evolution, how do you explain the evolution of drug-resistant bacteria?

I believe the answer is supposed to be God's Will.

123 ozbloke  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 6:52:38pm

re: #121 Obdicut

I'm sorry, evolution occurs. I can only conclude that you're religiously zealous to the point where you ignore scientific evidence.

I wanted to clarify what I thought you were asking.
Evolution could be a process of gradual, peaceful, progressive change or development, as in social or economic structure or institutions.

I felt you were asking from a biological point of view.
And, I answered yes.

124 wheat-dogg  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 6:52:50pm

re: #120 ozbloke

I taught science for 23 years. Any curriculum that denies evolution and solar fusion, and suggests Nessie is real is not worth the paper it's printed on.

You're right. I didn't spend 10 years with it. I would have bailed after 10 minutes.

125 Obdicut  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 6:53:49pm

re: #123 ozbloke

I asked if you disbelieve. You said yes.

So, you actually believe in evolution?

Why did you teach your kids from a curriculum that spends so much time and effort (in ridiculous ways) teaching that evolution is not true?

What did you use to teach your kids about evolution?

126 ozbloke  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 6:55:24pm

re: #124 wheatdogg

I taught science for 23 years. Any curriculum that denies evolution and solar fusion, and suggests Nessie is real is not worth the paper it's printed on.

You're right. I didn't spend 10 years with it. I would have bailed after 10 minutes.

FWIW, my children entered public school in the final two years, both were in the top 10 of their classes in the sciences.

Where do you think they got their answers and understanding from, if not from the ACE books?

127 ozbloke  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 6:57:35pm

re: #125 Obdicut

I asked if you disbelieve. You said yes.

You are correct, you did.
My mistake, to be clear I believe in biological evolution.
Maybe I should have done ACE myself for reading comprehension.

128 Obdicut  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 6:58:23pm

re: #126 ozbloke

FWIW, my children entered public school in the final two years, both were in the top 10 of their classes in the sciences.

Where do you think they got their answers and understanding from, if not from the ACE books?

Well, that's what I'm curious about. They can't have gotten them from the ACE books, because the ACE books teach that evolution is not true, that dinosaurs and man co-existed, that solar fusion doesn't happen, etc. etc. I mean, maybe their public school district also had a large amount of creationists in it-- unfortunately, something like a 1/4 of biology teachers in the US avoid teaching about evolution.

So, what did you use to teach your kids about evolution?

129 ozbloke  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 7:06:41pm

re: #128 Obdicut

They can't have gotten them from the ACE books, because the ACE books teach that evolution is not true, that dinosaurs and man co-existed, that solar fusion doesn't happen, etc. etc.

/ Maybe God told them the answers then?

I mean, maybe their public school district also had a large amount of creationists in it--

Not sure what your saying here, but to be clear my kids went to a heathen atheist public school in their final years, at the time ACE only went to year ten in Australia.

So, what did you use to teach your kids about evolution?

To be honest, I worked. My wife did the teaching on a day to day basis.
However, her only material was from ACE.

130 Obdicut  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 7:10:58pm

re: #129 ozbloke

Then I'm sorry, but something in your story doesn't add up. Either the public school was also terrible or something else weird is going on. The ACE scientific curriculum is garbage in any place where it contradicts creationist interpretation of scripture. It teaches that evolution is false. Using it to teach your kids did them a grave, hopefully not irreparable disservice.

Evolution exists. ACE teaches that it doesn't, and uses all kinds of bogus lies to support that fiction. If you seriously don't see this as a massive problem, I don't know what else to say.

Hopefully your kids understand that evolution is real and the garbage that ACE talked about it was religiously-driven idiocy.

131 ozbloke  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 7:18:25pm

re: #130 Obdicut

Using it to teach your kids did them a grave, hopefully not irreparable disservice.

Well that explains why they both have a limp now.

Evolution exists. ACE teaches that it doesn't, and uses all kinds of bogus lies to support that fiction. If you seriously don't see this as a massive problem, I don't know what else to say.

Well you need not say anything else as I have no credibility with you, as my story doesn't add up.

Hopefully your kids understand that evolution is real and the garbage that ACE talked about it was religiously-driven idiocy.

I think you will find that they are all grown up now, and like you and me, can think for themselves.

132 wheat-dogg  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 7:25:04pm

ozbloke's kids might be outliers. What's more distressing is thousands of kids being spoonfed garbage education by "teachers" who don't question the curriculum, supported by parents who think they're doing God's will.

So, how is this different from radical madrassahs?

133 ozbloke  Mon, Jun 25, 2012 7:39:59pm

re: #132 wheatdogg

Thanks for that wheatdog.

ozbloke's kids might be outliers.

/ They are certainly outliers, and they wont be getting back in until they do as there told.

What's more distressing is thousands of kids being spoonfed garbage education by "teachers" who don't question the curriculum, supported by parents who think they're doing God's will.

So, how is this different from radical madrassahs?

I can't comment on that, as my only experience was home schooling, and I know nothing about the US curriculum.

134 Ming  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 4:07:18pm

Maybe what annoys the wingnuts about "set theory" is that if something is called a "theory", there's an implication that someone is thinking it over, that's it's not "set in stone", that it may (unlike the Bible) be revised. The horror! Thinking is for God; our role is to believe what we're told.

135 wheat-dogg  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 8:10:58pm

re: #134 Ming

Maybe what annoys the wingnuts about "set theory" is that if something is called a "theory", there's an implication that someone is thinking it over, that's it's not "set in stone", that it may (unlike the Bible) be revised. The horror! Thinking is for God; our role is to believe what we're told.

I meant to comment on "set theory" yesterday, but, hey, I have to do work sometime.

My guess is the anti-set theory plank dates back to the 1960s, when there was considerable resistance to "New Math," one of the curricular changes of the post-Sputnik era. The usual suspects acted like New Math was akin to putting fluoride in the water. And the back-to-basics (as in McGuffey readers) crowd claimed learning Venn diagrams and set operations would mean kids couldn't do arithmetic anymore.

New Math, of course, ain't so new anymore. I learned it when I was in school in the '60s, but the New Math "fad" soon passed, to be supplanted by elementary programming concepts (like algorithms, BASIC and LOGO). Then pocket calculators came, followed by PCs and Macs, then graphing calculators. That's the era when I was teaching Algebra I and II. Now we got iPads, LEGO robotics and who knows what else?

Anyway, I'm not even sure math classes teach set theory much anymore.


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Norah Jones - to Live "To Live" is taken from Norah's newest album 'Pick Me Up Off The Floor,' out now and available to stream/download here: norahjones.lnk.to Connect with Norah:norahjones.cominstagram.comfacebook.com@NorahJones See Norah live: norahjones.com Music video by Norah Jones performing To Live. © 2020 ...
Thanos
1 week, 4 days ago
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Future Islands - for Sure (Official Video) 'For Sure' by Future Islands, out now on all platforms: futureislands.ffm.to A Film by Samuel Jerome MasonFinishing by John HarrisonRendered with GarageFarmSpecial Thanks to Anna, Jemima, Mike, Willy, Saad, Eric, Arsen Perish the painI was impoverishedThose ties that windAnd ...
Thanos
1 week, 4 days ago
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Andrew McMahon in the Wilderness - Get on My Wave I wrote and produced “Get On My Wave” with Kyle “King Tuff” Thomas the day we met last summer. I’ve struggled with releasing the song during the pandemic because it felt too happy; detached from the tumult of our ...
Thanos
1 week, 4 days ago
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