PA Democrats Ridicule GOP Majority Leader Over Voter ID Remarks

“If you have to stop people voting to win elections, your ideas suck”
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As we noted yesterday, in his comments to a GOP committee meeting, Pennsylvania House Majority Leader Mike Turzai let slip the real reason for Republican-sponsored Voter ID laws; his exact quote:

“Pro-Second Amendment? The Castle Doctrine, it’s done. First pro-life legislation – abortion facility regulations – in 22 years, done. Voter ID, which is gonna allow Governor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania, done.”

Turzai’s statements have gotten him headlines across the country, because Republicans normally try to maintain the fiction that Voter ID laws are needed to prevent voter fraud (which is almost nonexistent in reality), and deny the true political reason — to tilt elections to Republicans, because those most affected by Voter ID laws (in particular, minorities and the poor) are more likely to vote Democratic.

Today Pennsylvania Democrats, unsurprisingly, are capitalizing on Turzai’s remarks: PA Democrats Ridicule Turzai, GOP Over Voter ID; Say ‘Your Ideas Suck’.

The press conference, organized by State Sen. Daylin Leach, began with background on Turzai’s statements, which the Majority Leader’s spokesman Stephen Miskin say are being taken out of context for political gain.

“He was simply referencing, for the first time in a long while, the Republican Presidential candidate will be on a more even keel thanks to Voter ID…Anyone looking further into it has their own agenda,” said Miskin, who also noted, according to CBS, the “Republican candidate – presidential candidate – is going to have a fairer playing field.”

Leach said that explanation does “not pass the laugh test.” He noted voter fraud is virtually nonexistent in Pennsylvania and the United States and ended his opening statements with this burn: “If you have to stop people voting to win elections, your ideas suck.”

During debate on the issue in March, Leach noted Americans are more likely to be hit by lightning than misrepresent themselves at the polls. …

As we’ve written in the past, Republicans have been pushing Voter ID bills in several states since 2010. Governor Tom Corbett has noted the bill “does not interfere with anyone’s legal right to vote.” Although, that seems to have been said mistakenly, which is why the ACLU is currently pursuing a lawsuit on behalf of several plaintiffs, including Germantown resident Viviette Applewhite, who will not be able to vote in November. Additionally, the law makes it tougher on a lot of us—but mostly women, the elderly, students, minorities and the homeless. Local groups like the Committee of Seventy have worked on providing the public with Voter ID education. And local activist Faye Anderson has released a Voter ID web application to give those confused about the law some answers. The Obama Administration has a web-based voter assistance program, as well. …

Other than partisan bickering, the biggest piece of news to come out of the presser was Leach’s suggestion that Rep. Turzai’s comments will likely be used in the Voter ID litigation as it’s challenged in court. The comment, he said, “shows this was…intended to disenfranchise voters who don’t vote the right way”—and not to stop voter fraud, as Republicans in the House and Senate claimed during debate and thereafter.

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161 comments
1 Bulworth  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 1:34:06pm

I'm pretty sure today's teabag GOP doesn't feel ridicule.

2 Obdicut  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 1:34:41pm

The low incidence of voter fraud in this country is something we should be proud of. The low amount of corruption in our government is something we should celebrate. But instead, the GOP would rather scaremonger about it.

Patriotism, where went you?

3 Kragar  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 1:37:40pm

re: #2 Obdicut

The low incidence of voter fraud in this country is something we should be proud of. The low amount of corruption in our government is something we should celebrate. But instead, the GOP would rather scaremonger about it.

Patriotism, where went you?

Corruption in our government is something the GOP is doing their damnedest to make easier.

4 Targetpractice  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 1:37:45pm

Prediction: Those wingnuts who actually pay attention to this will characterize this ridicule as "proof" that Democrats don't take "voter fraud" seriously or that they're trying to fool people into believing that its anything other than the very serious threat to democracy they believe it to be.

5 darthstar  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 1:38:10pm
6 Kragar  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 1:40:30pm

re: #5 darthstar

[Embedded content]

Mitt has really hairy forearms.

7 AK-47%  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 1:40:59pm

Republicans are starting to regret having shut down ACORN. Who else can they hold up as an example of Democratic voter fraud?

8 Kragar  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 1:46:00pm
9 dragonath  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 1:46:03pm

Compounding the voting issue is that the PA congressional map is now frighteningly gerrymandered:

Image: New-Pennsylvania-Map.jpg

10 b_sharp  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 1:46:22pm

re: #6 Kragar

Mitt has really hairy forearms.

I'd be more concerned with a hairy mind, than hairy arms.
The arms can be waxed.

11 Targetpractice  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 1:46:29pm

re: #8 Kragar

The temperature on Long Island today: 7,200,000,000,000 F

What SPF do you need for that?

12 b_sharp  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 1:46:49pm
13 AK-47%  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 1:47:09pm
14 b_sharp  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 1:47:34pm

re: #11 Targetpractice

What SPF do you need for that?

1720

15 Kragar  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 1:50:01pm

re: #13 Expand Your Ground

all fake

Done with magnets.

16 AK-47%  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 1:50:42pm

re: #15 Kragar

Done with magnets.

and electrolytes

17 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 1:51:13pm

Have a great afternoon all!

18 Bulworth  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 1:51:20pm
Leach said that explanation does “not pass the laugh test.” He noted voter fraud is virtually nonexistent in Pennsylvania and the United States and ended his opening statements with this burn: “If you have to stop people voting to win elections, your ideas suck.”

Yeah, but ACORN! //

19 b_sharp  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 1:51:56pm

re: #18 Bulworth

Yeah, but ACORN! //

Nuts!

20 Kragar  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 1:54:25pm

re: #10 Surreptitious Stealth Troll

I'd be more concerned with a hairy mind, than hairy arms.
The arms can be waxed.

I was just making an observation.

21 Kragar  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 1:55:55pm

re: #19 Surreptitious Stealth Troll

Nuts!

Just goes to show, never bite off more than you cashew.

22 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 1:56:08pm

This is relevant to your interests:

23 b_sharp  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 1:57:59pm

re: #20 Kragar

I was just making an observation.

Observations are not allowed unless they validate the hive mind.

24 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 1:59:34pm

re: #23 Surreptitious Stealth Troll

Observations are not allowed unless they validate the hive mind.

Hive something...but not a mind of any variety.

25 b_sharp  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 2:01:29pm

re: #24 The Ghost of a Flea

Hive something...but not a mind of any variety.

Are you saying they don't mind getting the hives?

26 darthstar  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 2:01:55pm

re: #6 Kragar

Mitt has really hairy forearms.

And wrinkly pants (and no bulge...not that I'm looking)...

27 dragonath  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 2:02:50pm

Americans are falling behind in the global market for Mecha-Elvises.

28 b_sharp  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 2:04:11pm

re: #26 darthstar

And wrinkly pants (and no bulge...not that I'm looking)...

He left his codpiece in his dresser's drawers.

29 b_sharp  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 2:04:54pm

re: #27 Be Zorch, Daddio

Americans are falling behind in the global market for Mecha-Elvises.

Still trying to figure out Mecha-Gojira?

30 dragonath  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 2:05:22pm

re: #26 darthstar

Remember when people gave Al Gore a hard time for that?

31 Achilles Tang  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 2:07:02pm

I thought this says a few things well, so I am reposting from the previous thread which I was a bit late to:

American Atheists, an atheist civil rights group dedicated to atheists’ civil rights and the separation of religion and government, announced today that the “Stand Up for Religious Freedom” rallies to occur nationwide on June 8 are a misnomer and blatantly ignore the intent of the First Amendment. The coordinators and coalition of groups supporting the rallies are equally supporting theocracy and religious oppression: the opposite of what they are claiming to support.

Blair Scott, Communications Director, stated, “Religious freedom is guaranteed to the individual: not a collection of individuals or an organization. A church does not have religious freedom: the individual congregants do. A collection of religious persons do not have religious freedom: the individuals in that collection do. You cannot amass your individual freedoms to trump the freedoms of others.”

The rallies are being put together by a coalition of well-known groups who continually pursue ways to violate the separation of church and state, including the main coordinating group, the Pro-Life Action League.

Dave Silverman, President of American Atheists, said, “This demonstration is a protest against religious equality. The protestors are demanding equal rights to support their church’s position, essentially subjugating America’s secular law under their religious dogma. How can we have equality if the government changes its laws to suit one religion?”

Religious freedom applied to this situation means that women and their partners can decide whether to use birth control pills or any other legal contraceptive they and their doctors see fit. It does not mean that a religious-based business can deny these options.

AJ Johnson, Development Director, observed, “The rallies are not only a misnomer, but an insult to the secular principles embedded in our Constitution. These groups are not promoting freedom; they are using specific religious beliefs to restrict women’s rights and access to healthcare. This is an attempt to enforce religious oppression by these groups and should not affect our public policy.”

32 Patricia Kayden  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 2:07:26pm

Hopefully, the Dems are doing more than just "ridiculing" the Repubs. Talk about stealing the election.

33 darthstar  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 2:10:49pm

re: #30 Be Zorch, Daddio

Remember when people gave Al Gore a hard time for that?

People gave Al Gore a hard time for anything they could think of in 2000. Romney makes Al Gore look as interesting as that guy in the Dos Equis commercials by comparison.

Image: Dos+Equis.+i+bet+you+do_4be4d2_3294136.jpg

34 Amory Blaine  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 2:14:39pm
The low incidence of voter fraud in this country is something we should be proud of. The low amount of corruption in our government is something we should celebrate. But instead, the GOP would rather scaremonger about it.

Patriotism, where went you?

They basically can do what they want. Most democrats can't or won't get in the mud.

35 Varek Raith  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 2:16:46pm
36 Amory Blaine  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 2:16:51pm

re: #7 Expand Your Ground

Republicans are starting to regret having shut down ACORN. Who else can they hold up as an example of Democratic voter fraud?

Give them a minute. New scapegoat coming right up!!

37 Ming  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 2:25:29pm

It seems like every week, there's a new story about Republican attempts to discourage certain groups of people from being able to vote. I suppose these attempts may be coordinated.

It's frightening that one of the two major political parties would adopt this sort of tactic. What makes it possible is the alternate reality, broadcast 24/7 by Fox News, that Obama is a bad person who hates America. Anyone who believes that will feel justified to use the worst tactics imaginable, since they are after all fighting Satan himself.

38 makeitstop  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 2:26:44pm

re: #8 Kragar

The temperature on Long Island today: 7,200,000,000,000 F

Meh. A mere 4 trillion Celsius.

/

39 AK-47%  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 2:28:34pm

re: #37 Ming

Once you accept the Higher Truth that Obama is an existential threat to America, it justifies any sort of lies told about him as long as they serve the purpose of removing him from power.

40 Bulworth  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 2:32:01pm
Leach said that explanation does “not pass the laugh test.” He noted voter fraud is virtually nonexistent in Pennsylvania and the United States and ended his opening statements with this burn: “If you have to stop people voting to win elections, your ideas suck.”

But stopping people from voting is their idea. It's not merely a means to an end.

41 dragonath  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 2:33:50pm

re: #33 darthstar

Well, actually... I was thinking of the infamous Rolling Stone cover.

*_*

42 engineer cat  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 2:47:52pm

“He was simply referencing, for the first time in a long while, the Republican Presidential candidate will be on a more even keel thanks to Voter ID…Anyone looking further into it has their own agenda,”

the more these guys talk, the deeper they dig the hole

anyone looking further into my remark above has their own agenda

43 kirkspencer  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 2:52:25pm

re: #39 Expand Your Ground

Once you accept the Higher Truth that Obama is an existential threat to America, it justifies any sort of lies told about him as long as they serve the purpose of removing him from power.

I still have acquaintances who believe this, to the point they say it's OK to intentionally crash the national economy again if it means Obama is removed.

44 darthstar  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 2:56:45pm

re: #41 Be Zorch, Daddio

Well, actually... I was thinking of the infamous Rolling Stone cover.

*_*

Sticky fingers... :)

46 engineer cat  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 3:18:27pm

re: #45 Amory Blaine

Maddow: Union-busting about making Wisconsin permanently Republican

wisconsiner! kauf nicht bei unions!

47 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 3:22:51pm

Obviously abusive policies have to be stopped. However-Should HAVA be repealed?

Or will the fact that close elections come down to a small % and a very significant error margin keep that alive, and we must simply regulate how the states apply it?

Proposition 29 trailed by 63,000 votes on primary election night, but that gap narrowed steadily as election officials tallied mail-in, provisional and damaged ballots. Earlier this week, the gap closed to just over 13,000 votes.

That's out of five million votes folks. 13000 of 5 million.
EDIT
In six of the 57 US presidential elections where the public voted, the election was won by less than 1% of the vote. (They were: Bush II, Nixon, Kennedy, Harrison, Clevenland, Garfield.)

48 Amory Blaine  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 3:31:17pm

re: #46 engineer cat

wisconsiner! kauf nicht bei unions!

Our new state motto.

Amercia fuck yeah!!!!

49 EdDantes  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 3:32:20pm

re: #13 Expand Your Ground

all fake

At that temperature one must walk the Planck.

50 wrenchwench  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 3:33:40pm

re: #47 Daniel Ballard

Obviously abusive policies have to be stopped. However-Should HAVA be repealed?

Or will the fact that close elections come down to a small % and a very significant error margin keep that alive, and we must simply regulate how the states apply it?

Proposition 29 trailed by 63,000 votes on primary election night, but that gap narrowed steadily as election officials tallied mail-in, provisional and damaged ballots. Earlier this week, the gap closed to just over 13,000 votes.

That's out of five million votes folks. 13000 of 5 million.

If there's a close vote, say 13,000 difference out of 5 million votes cast, and there's a fraud rate of .001%, but the measures to reduce that fraud prevent .01% of potential voters from registering or casting a ballot, would that anti-fraud measure be worth it?

51 Amory Blaine  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 3:38:10pm

Claiming our elections are rife with fraud with no proof ever is attacking the institution of voting. Which by the way is enshrined in the constitution. How is this not undermining the authority of the constitution? Sounds treasonous to me.

WHERE IS THE FUCKING PROOF?

52 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 3:38:10pm

re: #50 wrenchwench

Your premise seems to be that fraud is the only cause of the error margin in the process.

Where do you get the .001%? And how do you know that is where it will remain, even if correct? And HAVA is not just about fraud BTW. It's about narrowing the error margin. I would argue that Florida had little fraud but widespread negligence.

I would think that pushing good ID to those who lack it would be a net gain for them. In fact I'm certain that ID is helpful to anyone who lacks it.

Well every attempt to read a hanging or dimpled chad was a kind of fraud, a fraud to present that that person knew what the voter intended.

53 engineer cat  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 3:38:26pm

re: #48 Amory Blaine

Our new state motto.

Amercia fuck yeah!!!

this is an eschaton inside joke, but if you had typed "phuck yeah!!", i would suspect you of being a certain "lubyanka" by nym

just checking

54 gwangung  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 3:40:37pm

re: #52 Daniel Ballard

Where do you get the .001%? And how do you know that is where it will remain, even if correct?

I think that's a question that should be asked of voter ID proponents. They're proposing a change; they should justify it.

55 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 3:42:31pm

re: #54 gwangung

Not at all, I was asking about whether HAVA should be repealed. And I would argue there is a mutual interest in a reliable number there. I'm a voter ID & HAVA proponent, but of course not of abusing the concept.

Besides Wrenchwench proposed the number in her post so... It's a legit question. One could dismiss a 1% fraud rate as minor. 99% solid 1 % fraud is a pretty low number. But it's enough to throw a close one.

56 Kragar  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 3:46:33pm

re: #55 Daniel Ballard

Not at all, I was asking about whether HAVA should be repealed. And I would argue there is a mutual interest in a reliable number there. I'm a voter ID & HAVA proponent, but of course not of abusing the concept.

Besides Wrenchwench proposed the number in her post so... It's a legit question. One could dismiss a 1% fraud rate as minor. 99% solid 1 % fraud is a pretty low number. But it's enough to throw a close one.

And thats why you have election committees and a registrar of voters, to investigate infractions of the rules. You don't reorganize the whole system because of a highly unlikely incident unless you have other motives.

57 Amory Blaine  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 3:47:46pm

Is there proof of even 1% voter fraud in any US election?

58 Obdicut  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 3:48:20pm

re: #52 Daniel Ballard

Pushing good ID would be great. Too bad the GOP isn't trying to do that. The current restriction attempts are obvious partisan politics, with no attempt to actually help enfranchise voters.

59 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 3:48:22pm

HAVA is not a total reorganization. But I take it you would like to see it repealed?

60 gwangung  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 3:48:56pm

re: #55 Daniel Ballard

As to the figures, I think anything in the .01 to .005 % area is your general ballpark (the last close election that drew a substantial number of voters in my area drew complaints about five hundred suspected bad votes out of a million)(and as you state, not all could conceivably be due to fraud).

61 Obdicut  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 3:49:05pm

re: #55 Daniel Ballard

But we don't have 1% fraud. We have incredibly low numbers of fraud.

This is a good thing.

62 Gus  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 3:52:04pm

It's a regular old dictator-fest in Venezuela:

President Chávez welcomes Alexander Lukashenko in Caracas
The Belarusian president said he did not come to get rich, but to cooperate in the development of both nations

Chávez welcomes Iran's Ahmadinejad in Caracas
Presidents Hugo Chávez of Venezuela and Mahmud Ahmadinejad of Iran have met quite a few times apropos their strategic partnership

63 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 3:52:37pm

re: #58 Obdicut

In fact pushing good ID would severely undermine the worst disenfranchisement efforts. And we did have Dornan v Sanchez, where dozens of fraudulent votes were found.

How can we quantify undiscovered fraudulent votes?

Keep in mind I'm speaking in support of HAVA and an ID push not abuses.

64 gwangung  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 3:54:21pm

re: #63 Daniel Ballard

How can we quantify undiscovered fraudulent votes?

If you can't detect, how can you justify?

65 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 3:55:11pm

re: #62 Gus

It's a regular old dicator-fest in Venezuela:

President Chávez welcomes Alexander Lukashenko in Caracas
The Belarusian president said he did not come to get rich, but to cooperate in the development of both nations

Chávez welcomes Iran's Ahmadinejad in Caracas
Presidents Hugo Chávez of Venezuela and Mahmud Ahmadinejad of Iran have met quite a few times apropos their strategic partnership

Can't spell dictator without dick well figuratively speaking at least. Quite a trio Hugo, Lukashenko, and Ahmadinjad are.

66 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 3:55:29pm

re: #64 gwangung

I can't detect a fire that has not started. But fire safety is a good idea.

67 Obdicut  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 3:56:13pm

re: #63 Daniel Ballard

In fact pushing good ID would severely undermine the worst disenfranchisement efforts. And we did have Dornan v Sanchez, where dozens of fraudulent votes were found.

Yes. Dozens.

How can we quantify undiscovered fraudulent votes?

By quantifying discovered fraudulent votes, and extrapolating.

There have been numerous investigations into fraudulent votes. None of them have turned up any evidence of significant voter fraud. And again-- for I don't know how many times I've said this-- in person-voter fraud is the worst way to try to commit fraud. You run an enormous risk for a very low return. There is no reason to believe it is happening, there is no evidence it is happening. Let's concentrate on problems we do have.

Keep in mind I'm speaking in support of HAVA and an ID push not abuses.

But what we have now is abuses. So, if you really want to have voter ID, you should argue strenuously against the current Voter ID laws that are being crafted and passed by the GOP in an obvious, partisan attempt to disenfranchise Democratic voters. Them doing so ruins any chance of good voter ID law getting through.

HAVA is fine. It isn't a photo ID act, so I'm not sure why you're including it among Voter ID laws.

68 Gus  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 3:56:30pm
69 Obdicut  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 3:57:07pm

re: #66 Daniel Ballard

I can't detect a fire that has not started. But fire safety is a good idea.

But bringing fire extinguishers when you go swimming is dumb.

70 engineer cat  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 3:58:19pm

How can we quantify undiscovered fraudulent votes?

somebody once told me that from a mathematician's point of view on computer programming, the number of known bugs is finite, but the number of unknown bugs is infinite

therefore, the number of undiscovered fraudulent votes is infinite. it follows, then, from the logic of this law that we should make everybody prove that they haven't committed any undiscovered crimes, since the number of those is infinite as well

71 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 3:59:12pm

re: #69 Obdicut

No buildings near that pool?

72 engineer cat  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 3:59:14pm

re: #65 HappyWarrior

Can't spell dictator without dick well figuratively speaking at least. Quite a trio Hugo, Lukashenko, and Ahmadinjad are.

do they all belong to Local 5, the Villians, Thieves, and Scoundrels Union?

73 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 4:01:24pm

re: #72 engineer cat

do they all belong to Local 5, the Villians, Thieves, and Scoundrels Union?

Tyrants Anonymous.*
* I realize Ahmadinjad isn't the real power in Iran.

74 Obdicut  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 4:01:36pm

re: #71 Daniel Ballard

No buildings near that pool?

Nope. Analogies are great that way.

Nobody is arguing that we should have no protections against fraudulent voting. We already have a lot of protections. The main, and insurmountable protection-- as in, this prevents large-scale single-person voter fraud-- is that every person has to register, and when they vote their name is checked off, preventing duplicate voting.

This makes it realliy, really, really hard to get any sort of organized in-person voter fraud going. This is why most cases of significant voter fraud have not involved in-person voting, but corruption of officials or mail-in ballots-- something Voter ID would do nothing, nothing at all to prevent.

75 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 4:02:35pm

re: #70 engineer cat

But HAVA might be a reasonable help. Would you agree or not?

76 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 4:03:00pm

re: #74 Obdicut

So HAVA will be no help? I disagree.

77 Obdicut  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 4:04:23pm

re: #76 Daniel Ballard

So HAVA will be no help? I disagree.

Hey, congrats on not reading my posts.

78 engineer cat  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 4:06:35pm

re: #75 Daniel Ballard

But HAVA might be a reasonable help

how so?

79 Big Joe  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 4:07:27pm

re: #78 engineer cat

how so?

A lack of evidence of voter fraud is proof of voter fraud.

80 Obdicut  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 4:08:08pm

re: #78 engineer cat

There are a lot of portions of HAVA that are great. Like the ones demanding a paper trail from all voting machines, providing training, providing help for disabled to get to polls, etc.

The voter ID requirements of HAVA are not overly onerous, if they are followed in good faith, and the provisional ballot system would be fine if, again, it were followed in good faith.

81 Obdicut  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 4:10:20pm

re: #80 Obdicut

The main problem with HAVA is that a lot of states used it as a jumping off point to enact ID requirements that are even stricter, and have failed to adequately count provisional ballots. Furthermore, they've failed to enact the parts of HAVA which are supposed to help people vote, and, most troubling, have failed to enact the parts which ensure a paper trail in computerized voting.

82 McSpiff  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 4:12:40pm

re: #81 Obdicut

The main problem with HAVA is that a lot of states used it as a jumping off point to enact ID requirements that are even stricter, and have failed to adequately count provisional ballots. Furthermore, they've failed to enact the parts of HAVA which are supposed to help people vote, and, most troubling, have failed to enact the parts which ensure a paper trail in computerized voting.

Why would Diebold lie? Only poor people lie.

83 aagcobb  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 4:13:12pm

If the point of voter ID was really to prevent fraud, rather than disenfranchise voters, they could accomplish the same goal with indelible ink.

84 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 4:15:16pm

re: #77 Obdicut

I read your posts. The bulk of your posts seem to speak against HAVA as unnecessary sice fraud is so miniscule. So I get mixed messages from you.

HAVA allows for photo ID, which of course is required for so many things we do in ordinary life that the voting issue seems strained at best, at least to me. So much so that this is a perfect issue to use to both help those people and undermine disenfranchisement efforts very significantly.

What might the fraud numbers be if we go electronic? Suddenly fraud is an important concern. Hmm.

85 engineer cat  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 4:15:40pm

re: #75 Daniel Ballard

re: #80 Obdicut

ok, sorry, please excuse my ignorance

i'm only against any of the measures that people have been trying to put in place that clearly make it harder for an individual to vote

and i'm definitely in favor of paper trails for electronic voting machines

Voter identification

HAVA requires any voter who registered by mail and who has not previously voted in a federal election to show current and valid photo identification or a copy of a current utility bill, bank statement, government check, paycheck, or other government document that shows the name and address of the voter. Voters who submitted any of these forms of identification during registration are exempt, as are voters entitled to vote by absentee ballot under the Uniformed and Overseas Citizens Absentee Voting Act.

this is a federal standard, which requires reasonable identification measures, allowing for example a current utility bill as proof, and also seems to say that this can be submitted at voting time

i think states should adhere to this standard. it seems to me that the law is that states have the right to regulate voting, on the other hand the 1965 Voting Rights Act is a federal standard

so i please incomplete knowledge

86 McSpiff  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 4:15:43pm

Its better that a thousand democratic voters be denied the right to vote rather then the GOP get a single fraudulent vote!

See? The GOP are martyrs for democracy.

87 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 4:17:47pm

Wednesday, October 08, 2008

Opponents ignore the fact that Americans overwhelmingly support voter identification requirements. For example, a Rasmussen Poll taken in the height of the hyper-partisan period immediately prior to the General Election in October of 2008, found that 76 percent of Americans, including three-fourths of Democrats, believe in a photo identification requirement (only 18% polled did not believe in one). In addition, members of the bipartisan Carter-Baker Commission on Federal Electoral Reform overwhelmingly endorsed a photo identification requirement with 18 yeas to 3 nays.

88 Obdicut  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 4:18:20pm

re: #84 Daniel Ballard

I read your posts. The bulk of your posts seem to speak against HAVA as unnecessary sice fraud is so miniscule. So I get mixed messages from you.

Nope. At no point, at all, have I spoken against HAVA. Please cite where I have done so.

I don't think HAVA is necessary to prevent voter fraud, since voter fraud is miniscule. I think HAVA is useful in helping to enfranchise people, getting people to vote who otherwise would have trouble, and providing a good paper audit trail.

HAVA allows for photo ID,

And for non-photo ID. Thus my support of it, as long as it's all done in good faith.

do in ordinary life that the voting issue seems strained at best, at least to me.

Why ignore the significant percentage of people who lack photo ID? When you have to ignore reality to make your argument, and assume that, even though every investigation ever done has found negligible amounts of in-person voter fraud-- it's somehow happening and we just haven't found it, your argument is the thing looking really, really strained.

89 Gus  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 4:19:21pm

Iran’s Vice President Makes Anti-Semitic Speech at Conference
By THOMAS ERDBRINK
Published: June 26, 2012

...

The “Zionists” are in firm control of the illegal drug trade, Mr. Rahimi said, asking foreign dignitaries to research his claims. “Zionists” is Iran’s ideological term for Jews who support the state of Israel.

“The Islamic Republic of Iran will pay for anybody who can research and find one single Zionist who is an addict,” Mr. Rahmini said. “They do not exist. This is the proof of their involvement in drugs trade.”

...

Mr. Rahimi, who spoke after Mr. De Leo, told stories of gynecologists killing black babies on the orders of the Zionists and claimed that the Bolshevik Revolution in 1917 was started by Jews, adding that mysteriously no Jews died in that uprising.

He also said the Talmud teaches Jews to think they are a superior race. “They think God has created the world so that all other nations can serve them,” he said. Halfway through his speech, Mr. Rahimi said there was a difference between Jews who “honestly follow the prophet Moses” and the Zionists who are “the main elements of the international drugs trade.”

A European diplomat said afterward: “This was definitely one of the worst speeches I have heard in my life. My gut reaction was: why are we supporting any cooperation with these people?”

...

90 engineer cat  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 4:20:04pm

but i also like the system where anybody announcing their candidacy for any office is instantly disqualified, and where all voters vote directly by scratching the name of anybody they don't like on an ostrakon

the victim candidate with the least ostraka will quietly submit to holding office until such time as they are forgiven or lynched

91 McSpiff  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 4:20:23pm

re: #84 Daniel Ballard

No, photo ID is required for many of the things you do in your day to day life. Thats literally the entire point. They can't say "no Blacks" anymore. So if you know 100% of your voting base has a driver's license, and only 85% of your opponent's does, you do everything in your power to make those driver licenses mandatory for voting. Its even better than a poll tax, because its completely transparent to your base. You can't even imagine how someone would be affected by this. Thats the beauty of it.

92 Obdicut  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 4:20:32pm

re: #85 engineer cat

The problem is that states have gone beyond HAVA, mandating photo IDs. This is not what HAVA intended and is an obvious, partisan attempt to disenfranchise voters who are majority Democrats.

The states have also misappopriated HAVA funds, not actually complied with the paper audit part, not done appropriate training, etc. etc. HAVA would be nice if it were actually followed, but instead most GOP legislatures prefer to use it as an excuse to enact harsh voter ID laws but do fuck-all about the bits that are supposed to help people to vote.

93 wrenchwench  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 4:24:33pm

re: #52 Daniel Ballard

Sorry for the delay. I had 5 customers in person and two on the phone. OK, one of them wasn't a customer. :)

Your premise seems to be that fraud is the only cause of the error margin in the process.

Isn't that what the push for voter ID is about? Fraud?

Where do you get the .001%? And how do you know that is where it will remain, even if correct?

It's a hypothetical, intended to elucidate how you see the issue. You don't want to know where I pulled it out of....

And HAVA is not just about fraud BTW. It's about narrowing the error margin. I would argue that Florida had little fraud but widespread negligence.

Who is asking for the repeal of HAVA? I think there's some good in it, but certainly the states' implementations of it need to be controlled. Need I mention AZ, the meth lab of democracy?

I would think that pushing good ID to those who lack it would be a net gain for them. In fact I'm certain that ID is helpful to anyone who lacks it.

If ID is such a good thing in and of itself, why tie it to voting?

94 McSpiff  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 4:26:31pm

re: #93 wrenchwench

"...the meth lab of democracy...

I love this so much.

95 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 4:27:18pm

re: #88 Obdicut

Let me show you again my argument for Voter ID.

The best argument for narrowing the error margin is the number of close wins. The best available tool is HAVA and voter ID. Like any tool there can be abuse. I argue for proper use, not abuse.

From above-excerpted
this is a perfect issue to use to both help those people without ID and undermine disenfranchisement efforts very significantly.

It really sucks that the argument becomes against voter ID and not for an ID push. That is a very suspect position, seems partisan rather than genuinely trying to have better elections.

It seems to be a far higher priority to thwart the GOP by denying voter ID laws, rather than arguing to get ID out to those who need it for many reasons, with more impact on their lives than the vote.

96 engineer cat  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 4:28:09pm

re: #93 wrenchwench

Need I mention AZ, the meth lab of democracy?

extra points for Effective Phrasemaking

97 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 4:28:21pm

BBL gotta start my commute, and then it's time to cook. Sorry I don't have time to continue this right now.

98 wrenchwench  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 4:28:46pm

re: #96 engineer cat

extra points for Effective Phrasemaking

Not mine. I think it's John Stewart's.

99 wrenchwench  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 4:29:34pm

re: #95 Daniel Ballard

The best argument for narrowing the error margin is the number of close wins. The best available tool is HAVA and voter ID. Like any tool there can be abuse. I argue for proper use, not abuse.

Voter ID is a hammer that you want to use to tighten a nut. Abuse is the only option there.

100 McSpiff  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 4:29:56pm

re: #95 Daniel Ballard

Do you think there are more people committing voting fraud or more people without 'proper' photo ID?

101 wrenchwench  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 4:30:10pm

re: #97 Daniel Ballard

BBL gotta start my commute, and then it's time to cook. Sorry I don't have time to continue this right now.

You'll be back....

Say hi to DL for me.

102 Obdicut  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 4:30:50pm

re: #95 Daniel Ballard

Let me show you again my argument for Voter ID.

The best argument for narrowing the error margin is the number of close wins.

Which is relatively small, and you have to prove that Voter ID narrows the error margin instead of increasing it.

It really sucks that the argument becomes against voter ID and not for an ID push. That is a very suspect position, seems partisan rather than genuinely trying to have better elections.

I'd love to see an ID push. I'd love a national ID that was pushed out to every citizen without burdening them with cost, or the elderly and sick with time and pain to acquire it. There is almost no effort being made for this, no laws being considered that would do this.

Instead, what we have are pushes to mandate voter ID while simultaneously closing down the places where you can get them, or mandates for voter ID that capriciously include one type rather than another.

It seems to be a far higher priority to thwart the GOP by denying voter ID laws,

Yes, it is a priority to thwart attempts to disenfranchise citizens. Why isn't this a priority for you?

rather than arguing to get ID out to those who need it for many reasons, with more impact on their lives than the vote.

But they don't need it for many reasons. That's why they don't have it. It might be of marginal use to some of them who don't currently have it, and it'd be nice to remove the small cost of ID from the people who do need it, but why on earth do you assume people who don't need ID really do need ID?

103 jaunte  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 4:32:40pm

re: #102 Obdicut

...what we have are pushes to mandate voter ID while simultaneously closing down the places where you can get them, or mandates for voter ID that capriciously include one type rather than another...

Bingo.

104 dragonfire1981  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 4:33:43pm

So I'm curious: Has Dan Riehl fallen off the face of the earth or does Charles just not give a shit about him and his tweets anymore?

I haven't seen mention of him in awhile.

105 engineer cat  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 4:37:39pm

anyway, my hope is that all this voter restriction crapola will end up pissing people off and getting them more motivated to vote

morons who pull crap like this often think they are smarter than they really are and end up getting tripped up by the law of unintended consequences

106 Obdicut  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 4:39:54pm

re: #105 engineer cat

That's a good point-- restrictive voter ID laws are 'counterable' by GOTV efforts and wake people up to the fact that the GOP really are trying to win by preventing people from voting, rather than garnering support. A Brennan Center study found that disenfranchisement from these laws so far has been countered by reaction against them; the problem is that it costs resources, so it's hard to estimate if it's taking resources away that could have otherwise been used to educate, inform, etc.

107 wrenchwench  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 4:42:05pm

re: #102 Obdicut

I'd love to see an ID push. I'd love a national ID that was pushed out to every citizen without burdening them with cost, or the elderly and sick with time and pain to acquire it. There is almost no effort being made for this, no laws being considered that would do this.

I have a neighbor who is a Katrina refugee. To fix her ID situation, she'd have to go to the nearest Social Security office, over 100 miles away, and the only public transportation that goes there is a shuttle that costs over $100.00 for the round trip. Belay that, I just checked because that sounded high. They discontinued service. Shit.

Anyway, she doesn't even want to register to vote because she doesn't want to get called for jury duty. She just wants to be able to cash a check.

108 Amory Blaine  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 4:47:02pm

New Berlin Could Lose A Third Of Their Teachers

New Berlin is a cesspool of right wing bigots.

Their mission was accomplished as the minimal crowd of ” tea party” leftovers did the hate radios bidding and showed up and not only caused a disturbance, but according to people at the meeting, yelled and spit at the teachers, pulled signs out of their hands and ripped them up and even disgustingly handed out pacifiers to the teachers.

109 Kragar  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 4:52:10pm

re: #108 Amory Blaine

New Berlin Could Lose A Third Of Their Teachers

New Berlin is a cesspool of right wing bigots.

Wow, that self deportation deal really works.
///

110 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 4:56:07pm

re: #108 Amory Blaine

New Berlin Could Lose A Third Of Their Teachers

New Berlin is a cesspool of right wing bigots.

Act 10 is doing exactly what it's was intended to do - continue the right wing destruction of public education.

111 dragonfire1981  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 4:57:37pm

re: #108 Amory Blaine

New Berlin Could Lose A Third Of Their Teachers

New Berlin is a cesspool of right wing bigots.

So it's got an appropriate name then?

112 engineer cat  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 5:00:54pm

re: #111 dragonfire1981

So it's got an appropriate name then?

actually, berlin even under the 3rd reich was relatively - relatively - liberal and anti-nazi

i think today berlin is known mostly for being a good place to dance to very loud music late at night and be emo and talk about suicide and wear kohl eye shadow

113 Amory Blaine  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 5:02:54pm

More right wing scummery:

Radio host: ‘Pistol whip’ the nuns who are protesting Paul Ryan

A conservative radio host says that the Catholic nuns who have embarked on a nine-state bus tour to protest the injustice of Rep. Paul Ryan’s (R-WI) proposed budget deserve to be beaten with a handgun because they “threw the first punch.”

“There’s a bus full of nuns headed towards Washington to lobby against the Ryan plan,” radio host Jan Mickelson told Rep. Tom Latham (R-IA) last week. “Do you guys, do you have any power to pull the nuns on the bus over and pistol whip them?”

114 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 5:05:32pm

The Abyss, it stares back!:

But one of the most fascinating -- and perhaps frightening -- Google X accomplishment has been its creation of one of the world's largest self-learning "unsupervised" neural networks. Consisting of 16,000 computer processors, the array is capable of complex task that are considered impossible using traditional algorithms. One such task is finding cute cats on the internet.

As a test of the nascent cognizant system, Stanford University Electrical Engineering Professor Andrew Y. Ng and Google fellow Jeff Dean fed the machine 10 million thumbnails of YouTube videos. Without being told exactly what to "look for", the network began to hierarchically arrange data, removing duplicate similar features and group certain images together.

One example was the cat. Thanks to the wealth of cat videos on YouTube, the cyber-brain eventually came to a single dream-like image representing the network's knowledge of what a cat looks like. The network was able to then able to recognize its favorite thing -- cat videos, no matter what subtle variations merry YouTubers come up with to their feline's appearance.

The significant part, say researchers, is that the network wasn't told what to look for.

Professor Dean comments in an interview in The New York Times, "We never told it during the training, ‘This is a cat.' It basically invented the concept of a cat. We probably have other ones that are side views of cats."

115 dragonath  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 5:13:05pm

I could have sworn I just read an article somewhere about there not being paper trails in a number of battleground states, like Colorado, Florida, and Pennsylvania.

One of the reasons I like New York is that they held on to their mechanical machines (I suppose this was in violation of the law) until they could get electronic machines with definitive voting records.

(*New York also did something like this in the 80s, when they defied the federal government over the drinking age)

116 engineer cat  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 5:16:01pm

re: #114 goddamnedfrank

The network was able to then able to recognize its favorite thing -- cat videos

someday we will be recognized and the Voting Cats Act will finally be passed

until then we must be kontent with rooling teh internetz

117 aagcobb  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 5:17:28pm

re: #104 dragonfire1981

So I'm curious: Has Dan Riehl fallen off the face of the earth or does Charles just not give a shit about him and his tweets anymore?

I haven't seen mention of him in awhile.

Perhaps his waterboarding while in twitter gulag so traumatized him he's gone into therapy. Bwahahahaha!

118 jamesfirecat  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 5:19:13pm

Clearly the GOP is undergoing a Kafka-esque transformation into the very communists they hate so much, they've now reached the stage where they wish to disband the people and elect another in their place.

119 dragonath  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 5:25:17pm

re: #108 Amory Blaine

Ohio voters gained my respect when they turned back the anti-union legislation last year. Wisconsin let these tinfoil fascists have free reign and blanched at the sight of the democratic process.

120 dragonfire1981  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 5:32:34pm

re: #114 goddamnedfrank

The Abyss, it stares back!:

Skynet lives...

121 Gus  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 5:34:05pm

Finally, a cold front coming in. Tomorrow should only reach 98.

122 austin_blue  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 5:38:51pm

re: #121 Gus

Finally, a cold front coming in. Tomorrow should only reach 98.

We hit 109 today. Hottest day evah! in June, here.

123 Gus  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 5:39:46pm

re: #122 austin_blue

We hit 109 today. Hottest day evah! in June, here.

DIA recorded 105 here. That was day 5 of over 100 degree temps and another record.

124 Gus  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 5:41:50pm

Nora Ephron, Wry Woman of Letters, Is Dead at 71

Nora Ephron, an essayist and humorist in the Dorothy Parker mold (only smarter and funnier, some said) who became one of her era’s most successful screenwriters and filmmakers, making romantic comedy hits like “Sleepless in Seattle” and “When Harry Met Sally,” died Tuesday night in Manhattan. She was 71...

125 PhillyPretzel  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 5:44:22pm

re: #124 Gus

RIP Ms Ephron.

126 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 5:55:23pm

Evening Lizardim.

127 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 5:55:55pm

Brewer: Obama wants undocumented votes

Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer accused President Obama of wanting undocumented immigrants to illegally vote for him in a radio interview yesterday. Speaking with 550-KFYI, Brewer slammed the Obama administration’s decision to cut the state out of a federal immigration program on the same day the Supreme Court upheld a key provision of Arizona’s landmark immigration law.

“They want chaos. They want a larger voting base as far as I’m concerned and they want the illegal immigration to continue,” Brewer said of the Obama administration. “Now they’ll have all the illegals and they can all do whatever they want and register to vote. Although it’s illegal if you’re not a citizen to register. But they’re not enforcing the law so what is going to happen to them? He’s looking for votes.”

Brewer seemed to be accusing Obama of intentionally driving up undocumented immigration in order to win votes from non-citizens. This would be illegal, obviously.

Brewer spokesman Matt Benson clarified, telling Arizona Republic columnist E.J. Montini that the governor simply meant Obama wants to win over legal Latinos voters. “In this instance, it appears clear that the President’s actions in recent days are an attempt to shore up his base of Latino support in advance of the November election,” he said, apparently referencing Obama’s new deportation policy. “Over the long term, there may be a play to grant ballot access for all or a portion of the illegal aliens in this country,” he added.

128 Gus  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 5:56:21pm

San Diego neighbors oppose veterans treatment center
Officials from a nearby school in Old Town fear disruptions from a facility for veterans from Iraq and Afghanistan suffering post-traumatic stress disorder.

129 dragonath  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 5:57:53pm

I could totally see Jan Brewer as Romney's Secretary of State...

lol

130 Gus  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 6:00:45pm
131 Obdicut  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 6:01:50pm

re: #130 Gus

Huh. One repeated bit is 'the founding fathers'. And yeah, quite a lot of them were racist. Probably the majority. Which is unsurprising.

132 ArchangelMichael  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 6:02:53pm

re: #128 Gus

San Diego neighbors oppose veterans treatment center
Officials from a nearby school in Old Town fear disruptions from a facility for veterans from Iraq and Afghanistan suffering post-traumatic stress disorder.

The local talk radio stations are having a coronary over this. It's the first time in a long while I've agreed with them. We need these facilities, and a lot of them. Vets suffering from PTSD should not be treated like they are sex offenders and kept away from schools.

133 Gus  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 6:03:39pm

re: #132 ArchangelMichael

The local talk radio stations are having a coronary over this. It's the first time in a long while I've agreed with them. We need these facilities, and a lot of them. Vets suffering from PTSD should not be treated like they are sex offenders and kept away from schools.

Yep. Count me as a supporter of the center.

134 Kragar  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 6:04:01pm

re: #127 The Ghost of a Flea

Brewer: Obama wants undocumented votes

Maybe if the person she had managing elections actually verified the voter registration data instead of investigating the President's birth certificate, they could avoid some chaos.

135 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 6:04:08pm

re: #130 Gus

Morons ---> #ThingsLiberalsConsiderRacist

Things liberals consider racist: Republicans.

/Do I win a prize?

136 ArchangelMichael  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 6:07:46pm

re: #130 Gus

Morons ---> #ThingsLiberalsConsiderRacist

People that compare Michelle Obama to a chimpanzee or a wookie...
uhhh people in the KKK, Stormfront and VNN posters...

People who post vile comments on websites using variations of the N-word to get it past filters...

Politicians who want to repeal the civil rights act...

I don't have all night for this.

137 dragonath  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 6:08:13pm

re: #131 Obdicut

Yeah, like we should have the morals of some 18th century dudes.

But actually...! This is sort of what Lincoln's Cooper Union speech is all about. His argument was; if almost all the founding fathers renounced or were against slavery then how could the Southerers appropriate them for their cause?

138 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 6:09:06pm

re: #128 Gus

San Diego neighbors oppose veterans treatment center
Officials from a nearby school in Old Town fear disruptions from a facility for veterans from Iraq and Afghanistan suffering post-traumatic stress disorder.

Those veterans are kind of homelessly. USA USA USA support the troops!

139 Amory Blaine  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 6:09:25pm

Isn't San Diego a hotbed of wingnuts? Why do they hate the troops?

140 Gus  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 6:09:28pm

re: #138 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012

Those veterans are kind of homelessly. USA USA USA support the troops!

NIMBYISM

141 jaunte  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 6:10:06pm

re: #139 Amory Blaine

They love the troops unless they break.

142 Kragar  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 6:11:09pm

re: #139 Amory Blaine

Isn't San Diego a hotbed of wingnuts? Why do they hate the troops?

They love the men fighting overseas. The ones who come home and need help? Not so much.

143 Gus  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 6:11:18pm

re: #136 ArchangelMichael

People that compare Michelle Obama to a chimpanzee or a wookie...
uhhh people in the KKK, Stormfront and VNN posters...

People who post vile comments on websites using variations of the N-word to get it past filters...

Politicians who want to repeal the civil rights act...

I don't have all night for this.

They all pretty much sound like they came from Twitchy. The Malkin cult.

144 labman57  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 6:11:18pm

The (publicly stated) rationale for all of these restrictive voter ID laws emanating from Republican-controlled state legislatures -- "voter fraud".

There is a world of difference between voting fraud (i.e., fraud perpetrated by the voter at the precincts on election day) and voter registration fraud. There is very little evidence for the former in the U.S. (other than that being perpetrated by O'Keefe's not-ready-for-prime-time players), yet conservatives are hell bent on enacting legislation to combat it, suggesting an ulterior motive is at play.

If Republicans sincerely want to tackle real election fraud, then they should focus their efforts on deceptive practices used to prevent some citizens from voting, as well as what happens to the votes after they are cast.

In other words, election fraud DOES exist ... except that the fraudulent party is not the voter -- it is the political party tactician who attempts to mislead a subset of the public with respect to date and/or location of the voting process, or the hired thug who attempts to intimidate selected citizens who show up to vote, it is the opposition party's tactical team which fronts faux candidates to run against an authentic party candidate in state primary elections, and it is the local election official who conveniently misplaces ballots or runs out of ballots at precincts that traditionally vote Democrat.

With respect to the voter ID legislation being pushed forth by Republican-controlled state legislatures, GOP legislators should simply cut to the chase and proclaim that the only Americans who have a legitimate right to vote are those who are registered members of the Republican Party.

145 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 6:11:22pm
A Tampa rape victim can sue the Hillsborough County Sheriff for allowing a jail guard to refuse to give her a prescribed emergency contraception pill because it was against the guard's religious beliefs, a federal judge ruled.

R.W., whose full name is not disclosed in court records, says she was raped on Jan. 27, 2007. After an examination at Tampa's Rape Crisis Center, a doctor gave R.W. gave two anti-contraception pills, according to the complaint.

R.W. says she took one pill immediately and held the other to ingest 12 hours later, as directed.

While taking R.W.'s report of the crime, however, a Tampa police officer learned that there was an arrest warrant for R.W. for failure to pay restitution and failure to appear. At the Hillsborough County Jail, staff confiscated her second pill.

R.W. says she requested her second pill the next morning, but jail employee Michele Spinelli refused. "Spinelli told the Plaintiff that she would not give R.W. the pill because it was against Spinelli's religious beliefs," the first amended complaint states.

146 ArchangelMichael  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 6:12:42pm

re: #139 Amory Blaine

Isn't San Diego a hotbed of wingnuts? Why do they hate the troops?

Most of the wingnuts here are in support of the center. This is more apolitical NIMBYism.

It's the first time in years I've agreed with something the conservative talk shows in town were howling about.

147 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 6:14:42pm

re: #143 Gus

They all pretty much sound like they came from Twitchy. The Malkin cult.

They probably all did, at some point.

148 Amory Blaine  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 6:17:03pm
“Who knows what could happen? From not controlling their emotions and reactions, things along those lines,” she said, in an interview earlier in the week. “I don’t think these kids need to see anything.”

Yep. It's more important to keep the mask on for the children than to expose them to any kind of truth.

149 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 6:18:27pm

re: #145 goddamnedfrank

Pure, baseless speculation, but I'm guessing that if it was the jail guard that had been raped, her religious convictions would have gone right out the window.

The only moral abortion is my abortion.

150 Kragar  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 6:24:59pm

re: #145 goddamnedfrank

Its against my religious beliefs to let assholes like that have a job.

151 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 6:27:39pm

re: #149 goddamnedfrank

Pure, baseless speculation, but I'm guessing that if it was the jail guard that had been raped, her religious convictions would have gone right out the window.

I'm sure there is an awesome quote about this, but all the burden falls on the weak.

I'll go and puke now.

152 b_sharp  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 6:34:47pm

How many investigations into voter fraud have turned up the type of fraud picture ID would prevent?

How much voter suppression has been attempted and by which party?

153 Mr. Crankypants  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 6:36:53pm

re: #151 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012

Life is like a shit sandwich... The more bread you got the less shit you have to eat.

154 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 6:38:15pm

re: #150 Kragar

Its against my religious beliefs to let assholes like that have a job.

I guess it's good (instructive may be a better word) to occasionally be reminded that a woman can be just as big of a dick to another women as the worst of men. The structure of the institution and oversight is key, give any random person enough power over their helpless fellows human beings and you've got a solid chance of awakening a monster.

It is galling to be held in place against your will. This is why I teach about tyranny in the best possible way--by example. Even though you read these words after the passage of eons, my tyranny will not be forgotten. My Golden Path assures this. Knowing my message, I expect you to be exceedingly careful about the powers you delegate to any government.
--Leto Atreides II, The Stolen Journals

155 Kragar  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 6:38:49pm

re: #152 Surreptitious Stealth Troll

How many investigations into voter fraud have turned up the type of fraud picture ID would prevent?

How much voter suppression has been attempted and by which party?

Another question:

How many incidents of this type of fraud would be required to swing a local, state or national election?

156 b_sharp  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 6:43:20pm

re: #155 Kragar

Another question:

How many incidents of this type of fraud would be required to swing a local, state or national election?

How many non-organized instances of this type of fraud are likely in a given voting area? How much organization would it take to fraudulently swing an election?

157 Kragar  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 6:52:32pm

re: #156 Surreptitious Stealth Troll

How many non-organized instances of this type of fraud are likely in a given voting area? How much organization would it take to fraudulently swing an election?

Plus, the organization would need to get progressively larger the more votes needed to swing the vote, while at the same time, increasing security to make sure the conspiracy is not uncovered.

So lets say you have 100 voters on election day. You would need to have them to cast their votes for you. You would then have to get them to go to their prearranged alternate voting locations where they could not be identified using the fake or stolen name to vote with. This also requires a 100% recruitment success rate for your fraudsters, because if anyone reports you, the jig would be up.

158 jaunte  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 6:55:49pm

Record heat hampers efforts to fight wildfires

....
The U.S. set 107 new temperature records on Monday and in the past week has set 782 of them, which are large numbers but hard to put in context because the data center has only been tracking the number of daily records broken for little more than a year, Arndt said.

But what's truly impressive, Arndt said, is that in the past three days in Colorado and Kansas, nine sites have set records regardless of the date. Usually hottest-ever marks are set in the scorching months of July and August.

The scorching heat doesn't appear to be letting up soon. Segin said such prolonged heat is "extremely taxing" physically on firefighters, who are working long days and carrying heavy gear.
...snip...

With the nation's privately owned fleet of heavy air tankers already in use or unavailable, U.S. Forest Chief Tom Tidwell said his agency had to call on the military to help.

Mitt Romney: "[Obama] wants to hire more government workers. He says we need more firemen, more policeman, more teachers. Did he not get the message of Wisconsin? The American people did. It's time for us to cut back on government and help the American people."

159 Kragar  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 6:58:25pm

re: #158 jaunte

Record heat hampers efforts to fight wildfires

Mitt Romney: "[Obama] wants to hire more government workers. He says we need more firemen, more policeman, more teachers. Did he not get the message of Wisconsin? The American people did. It's time for us to cut back on government and help the American people."

Forest fires are God's will! How dare the Forestry Service defy God's will?!
///

160 jaunte  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 7:01:28pm

Wow:
[Link: twitter.com...]
"This is colorado springs right now. Look at this photo and be shocked. Its f'ing armageddon here "

161 Gus  Tue, Jun 26, 2012 7:07:42pm

re: #160 jaunte

Wow:
[Link: twitter.com...]
"This is colorado springs right now. Look at this photo and be shocked. Its f'ing armageddon here "

Live feed here: [Link: www.9news.com...]


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