The Overnight Supreme Court Open Thread

Awaiting the most important SC decision in decades

PoliticsJune 2012 • Views: 41,129

Here’s an open thread to speculate, predict, and then report on the Supreme Court’s decision on the Affordable Care Act, expected tomorrow morning bright and early (10 am ET, 7 am PT).

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702 comments

Dancing along the light of day Wed, Jun 27, 2012 8:56:14pm

Because!

Youtube Video

CuriousLurker Wed, Jun 27, 2012 8:57:38pm

One last comment before I sign off. Some good news for a change:

Man Misses Job Interview to Save Baby abcn.ws/MqRc1g
— CuriousLurker (@CuriousLurker) June 28, 2012

I'm pretty sure he won't have trouble finding a job now. ;)

G'nite, everyone.

Targetpractice Wed, Jun 27, 2012 8:57:51pm

Current prediction? Somebody's gonna be absolutely pissed come lunch time tomorrow.

b_sharp Wed, Jun 27, 2012 8:59:16pm

I have to run too. Justin Bieber is on Jay.

jaunte Wed, Jun 27, 2012 9:01:40pm

5-4: overruling mandate requiring citizens to check themselves before they wreck themselves. #otherSCOTUSpredictions

— Imani ABL (@AngryBlackLady) June 28, 2012

Kragar Wed, Jun 27, 2012 9:02:43pm

re: #3 Targetpractice

Current prediction? Somebody's gonna be absolutely pissed come lunch time tomorrow.

"Don't fuck up. Don't fuck up. Don't fuck up. Don't fuck up."
[decision announced]
"YOU FUCKED UP!"

Blizard Wed, Jun 27, 2012 9:02:59pm

Gee, just in time for my morning commute out here in Colorado. There may be some hot-headed drivers. And not just because of the fires...

/prepping strong coffee now

jaunte Wed, Jun 27, 2012 9:03:32pm

8-1 removing baby from the corner, with Scalia dissenting as the word “corner” doesn’t appear in the Constitution. #otherSCOTUSpredictions

— amaeryllis (@amaeryllis) June 28, 2012

Kragar Wed, Jun 27, 2012 9:03:37pm

re: #5 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Any news on whether it may or may not be too legit to quit?

Targetpractice Wed, Jun 27, 2012 9:07:43pm

At this point, I think we all know it's gonna be a 5-4 decision, as all "great" decisions made by this court so far have been. It's a matter of whether Anthony Kennedy still believes in fairy tales about how America is now anything more than the subsidiary of various corporate entities in the wake of Citizens United.

Dark_Falcon Wed, Jun 27, 2012 9:08:05pm

re: #8 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Actually, if there were a lone dissenter it would be Justice Thomas. He and Scalia have disagreed in the past regarding the scope of the Commerce Clause.

Kragar Wed, Jun 27, 2012 9:09:15pm

re: #11 Dark_Falcon

Actually, if there were a lone dissenter it would be Justice Thomas. He and Scalia have disagreed in the past regarding the scope of the Commerce Clause.

What? You mean you haven't heard?

Targetpractice Wed, Jun 27, 2012 9:10:45pm

re: #11 Dark_Falcon

Actually, if there were a lone dissenter it would be Justice Thomas. He and Scalia have disagreed in the past regarding the scope of the Commerce Clause.

Clarence Thomas? You mean that wax figure at the ACA hearings, who had the gallery wondering whether he was asleep or dead? You really believe he's gonna be the dissenting vote?

Mich-again Wed, Jun 27, 2012 9:12:18pm

I think John Roberts has had it up to here with Antonin Scalia.

Dark_Falcon Wed, Jun 27, 2012 9:12:55pm

re: #14 Mich-again

I think John Roberts has had it up to here with Antonin Scalia.

And your evidence for this claim is?

Dancing along the light of day Wed, Jun 27, 2012 9:13:20pm

re: #7 Blizard

Nice to "see" you back, posting!

Targetpractice Wed, Jun 27, 2012 9:14:10pm

re: #14 Mich-again

I think John Roberts has had it up to here with Antonin Scalia.

I think Scalia just needed to come out during the hearings and go "I'll save you the time, I'm ruling against it no matter what you say! Your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of elderberries! Now go away before I taunt you a second time!"

Kragar Wed, Jun 27, 2012 9:17:36pm

re: #17 Targetpractice

I think Scalia just needed to come out during the hearings and go "I'll save you the time, I'm ruling against it no matter what you say! Your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of elderberries! Now go away before I taunt you a second time!"

More at the link...

110

ozbloke Thu, Jun 28, 2012 1:58:04am

German court bans circumcision of young boys.

Jewish and Muslim groups have protested after a German court banned the circumcision of young boys for religious reasons, in the first ruling of its kind in the country.

The court in the western city of Cologne handed down the decision on Tuesday in the case of a doctor prosecuted for circumcising a four-year-old Muslim boy who had to be treated two days later for post-operative bleeding.

It ruled involuntary religious circumcision should be made illegal because it could inflict serious bodily harm on people who had not consented to it.

However, the ruling, which applies only to the Cologne area, said boys who consciously decided to be circumcised could have the operation.

No age restriction was given, or any more specific details.

The doctor, who was prosecuted after the hospital doctor who treated the boy for bleeding called police, was acquitted because there was no law banning religious circumcision at the time.

More...

111

goddamnedfrank Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:00:52am

re: #106 Amory Blaine

Don’t Do Business with Progressive Appeasers
Time for conservatives to withdraw our money.

By Michelle Malkin

There's something very creepy, cold, forced and insincere about that smile of Michelle's in the byline photograph. She looks like a Terminator struggling to emulate human expression.

112

goddamnedfrank Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:03:54am

re: #110 ozbloke

There's an ongoing discussion about it in this thread.

113

ozbloke Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:04:36am

re: #112 goddamnedfrank

There's an ongoing discussion about it in this thread.

Thanks

114

freetoken Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:04:40am

re: #110 ozbloke

re: #112 goddamnedfrank

Thanks, I was about to refer to that Page, which generated a bit of heat.

115

Amory Blaine Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:10:56am

Image: Ryan_Band-Aids.jpg

116

ozbloke Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:28:39am

re: #112 goddamnedfrank

There's an ongoing discussion about it in this thread.

I left you a comment GDF

117

freetoken Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:44:26am

MP3 Audio

118

Obdicut Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:52:50am

RJD2-- Rain.

Youtube Video

119

ozbloke Thu, Jun 28, 2012 3:01:42am

Cootamundra Wattle - John Williamson

Youtube Video

120

freetoken Thu, Jun 28, 2012 3:37:18am

A problem that is not going away quickly:

Record radiation levels detected at Fukushima reactor

TEPCO, the operator of Japan's crippled Fukushima nuclear plant, said Wednesday record amounts of radiation had been detected in the basement of reactor number 1, further hampering clean-up operations.

TEPCO took samples from the basement after lowering a camera and surveying instruments through a drain hole in the basement ceiling.

Radiation levels above radioactive water in the basement reached up to 10,300 millisievert an hour, a dose that will kill humans within a short time after making them sick within minutes.

The annual allowed dose for workers at the stricken site is reached in only 20 seconds.

[...]

121

freetoken Thu, Jun 28, 2012 3:58:46am

These things happen:

Man finds car stolen 40 years ago online

[...]

During a sleepless night last month, Russell hopped out of bed and began surfing the Web.

Browsing eBay that night led to the recovery of his 1967 Austin Healey, a sports car that was stolen more than 40 years ago.

[...]

122

sattv4u2 Thu, Jun 28, 2012 4:00:37am

re: #121 freetoken

These things happen:

Man finds car stolen 40 years ago online

He said he knew it was his because he had memorized the vehicle identification number.

Impressive

I can't even remember my cell phone #

123

freetoken Thu, Jun 28, 2012 4:00:48am

Lords Reform Bill fails to remove religious privilege

Church of England Bishops will retain reserved seats in the House of Lords according to proposals published today by the Deputy Prime Minister.

There are currently guaranteed places for 26 Church of England bishops in the House of Lords, including both Archbishops and the most senior diocesan bishops.

Under new proposals the number of bishops will eventually be cut to 12. However, in an upper chamber slimmed down from 800 peers to 450 ‘senators’, the status quo is largely maintained.

The eventual composition of the reformed House of Lords will be 360 elected members, 90 appointed members and up to 12

Lords Spiritual.

This will only be achieved after two transitional periods of five years during which time there will be a phased reduction of bishops from 21 to 16 to 12. Existing peers will be ‘phased’ out as elected members are brought in.

[...]

If there ever was a title with in-built hubris, "Lords Spiritual" qualifies.

124

ozbloke Thu, Jun 28, 2012 4:00:51am

re: #121 freetoken

These things happen:

Man finds car stolen 40 years ago online

Thanks, what a feel good story.

125

Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Thu, Jun 28, 2012 5:34:13am

Morning Lizardim from the hot and humid wild north country. Not much else to it other than that; what's new in the front lines of the war on derp?

126

sattv4u2 Thu, Jun 28, 2012 5:45:45am

re: #125 thedopefishlives

Morning Lizardim from the hot and humid wild north country. Not much else to it other than that; what's new in the front lines of the war on derp?

Much like the wars on poverty and drugs, DERP is winning!
//

127

Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Thu, Jun 28, 2012 5:47:04am

re: #126 sattv4u2

Much like the wars on poverty and drugs, DERP is winning!
//

Well, in all fairness, poverty is only winning its war because the rich are too self-centered to bother. If they'd relax their death grip on the country's economy and actually be human for a change, then perhaps we could do something about it.

128

Charleston Chew Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:08:44am

re: #127 thedopefishlives

Well, in all fairness, poverty is only winning its war because the rich are too self-centered to bother. If they'd relax their death grip on the country's economy and actually be human for a change, then perhaps we could do something about it.

There's an aspect to the psychology of a-hole billionaires that I just can't fathom. Some of them have insane amounts of money and are quite old, yet still work really hard every day to screw the rest of us. What gives them that drive?

For instance, I understand why someone making $25 thousand or even $250 thousand a year would be opposed to regulation if they thought it would lead to them losing their job. They got bills to pay.

But why do the billionaire owners of the places those people work, who have virtually infinite money, seem so desperate to make that infinity + 1?

129

lawhawk Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:13:33am

Greets and saluts from the NYC metro area. I wish I had some particular insight as to how the court will rule today, but as I posted on twitter earlier, as important as the Court's ruling will be is who will be in the White House after January 2013. If it's President Obama, he'd work to reinstitute/conform the ACA, salvaging as much as he could. If it's Romney, he'd gut whatever wasn't tossed out by the court, even the parts that are widely considered to be beneficial.

If that isn't a reason to go and vote in November, I don't know what is.

130

lawhawk Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:16:53am

FYI - for those following the wildfires around the country, here's a great resource to keep track of the various fires, firefighting efforts, and acreage burned to date.

131

HappyWarrior Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:18:54am

I think they'll overturn the mandate but keep the rest. In other words, no one will be happy. Honestly, I hope should the above happen that it opens the way for the public option which I thought was a better idea anyhow and to boot it's more popular with the public as a whole. I hope should Obama try to change things with the ACA that they do a better job than last time of selling it to the public and winning that battle because winning that is important as getting a bill in place.

132

Bulworth Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:19:29am

I just can't imagine a scenario in which the mandate survives in this Court. And I'd say the odds of the rest of the bill surviving are about 30-70, 40-60 at best. Anything to screw the uninsured.

133

RogueOne Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:20:04am

re: #129 lawhawk

I believe that vote already happened in 2010. The last thing the president needs is to make the 2012 vote about health care reform.

134

HappyWarrior Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:20:50am

re: #128 Charleston Chew

There's an aspect to the psychology of a-hole billionaires that I just can't fathom. Some of them have insane amounts of money and are quite old, yet still work really hard every day to screw the rest of us. What gives them that drive?

For instance, I understand why someone making $25 thousand or even $250 thousand a year would be opposed to regulation if they thought it would lead to them losing their job. They got bills to pay.

But why do the billionaire owners of the places those people work, who have virtually infinite money, seem so desperate to make that infinity + 1?

To me the most disturbing trend is how CEOs will reward themselves even if their company isn't doing well profitably wise oor the gap between executive pay and worker pay has risen dramatically. I think that's far greater class warfare than Obama and the Democrats wanting the rich to pay what they paid in the Clinton years.

135

HappyWarrior Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:22:57am

I'll be pissed if they get rid of the pre-existing conditions one. I have a heart condition. So, that would impact people like me.

136

Bulworth Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:23:23am

re: #131 HappyWarrior

I think they'll overturn the mandate but keep the rest. In other words, no one will be happy. Honestly, I hope should the above happen that it opens the way for the public option which I thought was a better idea anyhow and to boot it's more popular with the public as a whole. I hope should Obama try to change things with the ACA that they do a better job than last time of selling it to the public and winning that battle because winning that is important as getting a bill in place.

I don't think the ACA can really "work" without the mandate, but such a decision would leave the teabag party with a real mess. The only really hated part of the ACA would be gone and party of Boner, Issa and McConnell would be left trying to explain why it wants to be rid of the rest of the more popular elements of the bill, which if the ruling went this way, would now get a lot more attention.*

*in a rational world involving a news media interested in policy substance above horserace politics and campaign barbeques.

137

HappyWarrior Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:24:53am

re: #136 Bulworth

I don't think the ACA can really "work" without the mandate, but such a decision would leave the teabag party with a real mess. The only really hated part of the ACA would be gone and party of Boner, Issa and McConnell would be left trying to explain why it wants to be rid of the rest of the more popular elements of the bill, which if the ruling went this way, would now get a lot more attention.*

*in a rational world involving a news media interested in policy substance above horserace politics and campaign barbeques.

That's what I want. I want them to explain to people with pre-existing conditions or with family members or friends with them why they think it's okay to be denied health insurance because of that.

138

lawhawk Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:26:31am

re: #136 Bulworth

The mandate is the portion that generates revenues necessary to fund other segments of the HCR plan, both for those portions scheduled to go into effect and those already done.

Some of the insurers have said that they would continue to honor terms already in effect as a result of the HCR regardless of the outcome or Congressional actions, but not all - and that could be subject to change depending on the insurers' whim. That includes covering dependents up to 26 and preexisting conditions provisions, but you'd have to check with your current/prospective insurer to be sure.

139

lawhawk Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:29:20am

re: #133 RogueOne

It's not the President who's making this about health care reform; it's going to be the Court's decision and the GOP's position that calls for eliminating whatever the Court leaves intact.

So, if you're going to blame anyone for resurrecting the health care debates from 2010, look no further than the GOP (see my prior posting). They want to force a full repeal of the health care reform act, regardless of whatever benefits have already accrued and on items that most folks recognize as being major improvements in health care delivery/insurance coverage.

140

HappyWarrior Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:31:33am

Seeing that Romney was getting cocky last night: "The White House isn't sleeping well." He should tell that to the people who could lose their insurance because of this decision instead of honking his horn again. Romney's cavalier attitude about the well being of others really grates me.

141

RogueOne Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:33:30am

re: #139 lawhawk

I was responding to your point that HCR being overturned gives people a big reason to get out and vote in November. I'm only pointing out that we've already seen what happens when people go to the polls to vote on HCR. A replay of an election based on the economy and HCR is a disaster in the making. Of course the GOP wants a replay of the '10 mid-terms and the President would be crazy to give it to them.

142

tajsagay01 Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:38:21am

its really funny how some Americans actively vote against their own interest

143

RogueOne Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:39:42am

What's Next For Obamacare: A Step-By-Step Guide
[Link: www.buzzfeed.com...]

Flowchart to keep up:
Image: enhanced-buzz-wide-4612-1340030685-12.jpg

144

Bulworth Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:42:24am

From the previous thread:

Provisions that the GOP would eliminate, and which have already gone into effect include the following:

•coverage for preexisting conditions;
•10% tax on indoor tanning;
•insurers are prohibited from imposing lifetime dollar limits on essential benefits, like hospital stays, in new policies issued;
•dependents are allowed to stay on their parents’ insurance plan until age 26;
•insurers are prohibited from excluding pre-existing medical conditions (except in grandfathered individual health insurance plans) for children under the age of 19;
•insurers are prohibited from charging co-payments, co-insurance, or deductibles for Level A or Level B preventive care and medical screenings on all new insurance plans;
•closing a portion of the donut hole on Medicaid Part D;
•reduces (and would eliminate by 2014) insurers’ ability to enforce annual spending caps;
•prohibits insurers from dropping policy holders when they get sick;
•flex spending accounts, health savings accounts, and health reimbursement accounts cannot be used to pay for OTC drugs

There's also an expansion of Medicaid.

145

Romantic Heretic Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:42:52am

re: #61 Gus

You ever notice how you never really meet a person that says they like pornography? It's like the most popular male pastime that no one admits to.

//

Not very profitable though. I write the stuff and I don't even make beer money off my work.

146

Decatur Deb Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:47:08am

re: #145 Romantic Heretic

Not very profitable though. I write the stuff and I don't even make beer money off my work.

Perhaps you're doing it wrong. Try writing a spec article on microbrews and see if you make stripper bills.

147

RogueOne Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:50:28am

A nice story before the shit hits the fan in about 15 mins:

A Brief History Of Awesome Dogs

It's no mystery that dogs earned the moniker of “Man's Best Friend” due to their longstanding service to mankind. But should you need an explanation beyond this, I present you with an abridged history: here are selected tales of some of the most awesome dogs that ever existed.
[Link: www.buzzfeed.com...]

Sgt. Stubby, 102nd Infantry
Image: enhanced-buzz-12995-1340768564-4.jpg

148

Buck Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:50:57am

re: #144 Bulworth

Not strictly true. That is your guess, but many think they will replace those items with similar legislation that has the same result but pays for it in a different way.

149

Bulworth Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:52:05am

re: #148 Buck

Not strictly true. That is your guess, but many think they will replace those items with similar legislation that has the same result but pays for it in a different way.

Ha ha

150

RogueOne Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:52:21am

re: #148 Buck

I would bet the repubs will co-opt the parts of the bill that are popular. It is an election year after all.

151

Romantic Heretic Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:54:29am

re: #134 HappyWarrior

To me the most disturbing trend is how CEOs will reward themselves even if their company isn't doing well profitably wise oor the gap between executive pay and worker pay has risen dramatically. I think that's far greater class warfare than Obama and the Democrats wanting the rich to pay what they paid in the Clinton years.

It's based on a common, two part delusion.

Part one is that upper management of companies are capitalists. Part two is that all capitalists are fabulously wealthy.

Neither is true but the belief that they are drives modern management to reward themselves far out of proportion to their contributions.

152

RogueOne Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:54:38am

HeeHee, Chuck Todd on MSNBC is predicting the ruling will come down at 10:17. I wonder if there is a vegas line on all these predictions.

153

Mattand Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:56:35am

re: #148 Buck

Not strictly true. That is your guess, but many think they will replace those items with similar legislation that has the same result but pays for it in a different way.

On what planet?

Seriously, the GOP nominee enacted mandated healthcare as MA governor. Now he's against it. It was the preferred Republican method of healthcare for nearly 20 years until Obama decided to push it.

These guys have had every opportunity to offer up their vision of what they want HCR to be. And they haven't.

I can't see how Republicans care about how people get medical coverage, other than pissing on Obama's cornflakes. Their tax policies favor the upper class at the expense of everyone else. What makes you think HCR is any different?

154

HappyWarrior Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:57:29am

re: #151 Romantic Heretic

It's based on a common, two part delusion.

Part one is that upper management of companies are capitalists. Part two is that all capitalists are fabulously wealthy.

Neither is true but the belief that they are drives modern management to reward themselves far out of proportion to their contributions.

Yep.

155

Romantic Heretic Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:57:30am

re: #146 Decatur Deb

Perhaps you're doing it wrong. Try writing a spec article on microbrews and see if you make stripper bills.

I do write for a niche of the market so I shouldn't be surprised.

156

RogueOne Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:59:13am

Kim Dotcom raid illegal, New Zealand court rules
Search warrants used when 70 New Zealand police raided the mansion of the suspected kingpin of an internet piracy ring were illegal, a New Zealand court ruled on Thursday, dealing a blow to the FBI's highest profile global copyright theft case.
[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk...]

157

celticdragon Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:00:13am

Watching SCOTUS blog right now...

158

lawhawk Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:00:26am

re: #148 Buck

Not strictly true. That is your guess, but many think they will replace those items with similar legislation that has the same result but pays for it in a different way.

Actually, based on Boehner's statements yesterday the GOP would seek to overturn all elements of the PPACA:

If the Supreme Court leaves any part of the law intact in its ruling on Thursday, House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) said at a Wednesday morning press conference that Republicans will move to strike those provisions down.

‘Now we all know the Supreme Court is likely to make some announcement about Obamacare tomorrow,’ Boehner said. ‘We made it pretty clear, and I’ll make it clear one more time: if the court does not strike down the entire law, the House will move to repeal what’s left of it.’

That's unambiguous. Boehner and the GOP will move to repeal everything that the Court doesn't strike down.

159

Decatur Deb Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:00:54am

Very OT--Even thousands Fed firefighters don't get adequate health insurance:

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

160

HappyWarrior Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:01:11am

re: #159 Decatur Deb

Very OT--Even thousands Fed firefighters don't get adequate health insurance:

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

That's maddening.

161

Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:02:58am

Morning!

What's it going to be? Are we covered or are we not?

HA!

How is it?

162

celticdragon Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:03:31am

Alvarez is struck down, 6-3. Kennedy reading decision.

163

celticdragon Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:04:09am

Alvarez was known as the Stolen Valor Act.

164

RogueOne Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:06:18am

re: #162 celticdragon

Alvarez is struck down, 6-3. Kennedy reading decision.

I think that's the right decision.

165

Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:07:16am

It's going to be a few before we get to the ACA.

166

celticdragon Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:07:16am

Decision on First American case probably next, then Health Care.

167

Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:07:44am

Ok, so I was wrong.

168

celticdragon Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:07:55am

MSNBC saying they have the decision.

169

HappyWarrior Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:08:16am

Well here goes some history.

170

iossarian Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:08:35am

re: #164 RogueOne

I think that's the right decision.

Seems that way. I thought that was a bit of a "thou shalt not burn the flag" shmatriotism at the time.

171

celticdragon Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:08:53am

First American dismissed

172

allegro Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:08:57am

Mandate is killed

173

RogueOne Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:09:01am

Wow! survives as tax!

174

Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:09:08am

Individual Mandate survives as a tax?

175

Mattand Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:09:25am

re: #173 RogueOne

Wow! survives as tax!

What does this mean? It's effectively still alive?

176

celticdragon Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:09:27am

Individual mandate survives as a tax

177

simoom Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:09:34am

CNN and ScotusBlog disagreeing.

178

RogueOne Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:09:34am

re: #172 allegro

Mandate is killed

You sure? SCOTUS Blog is saying "mandate survives as tax".

179

HappyWarrior Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:09:37am

Wow.

180

Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:09:45am

Fox News (in the background in my house) says it was struck down.

SCOTUS blog says it survives as a tax.

181

simoom Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:10:07am

This will be amusing if all the networks got it wrong.

182

celticdragon Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:10:15am

SCOTUS blog trying to figure it out.

183

RogueOne Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:10:17am

MSNBC is still trying to figure it out.

184

allegro Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:10:20am

re: #178 RogueOne

You sure? SCOTUS Blog is saying "mandate survives as tax".

Watching CNN

185

lawhawk Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:10:32am

Survives as a tax - via Scotusblog (FWIW)

Score one for me. I had called this a tax from the outset, and Congress' power to tax is unquestioned. The Administration had tried to call it something other than a tax, which didn't fly with me particularly because it related to tax provisions and IRS enforcement.

Wow. Watch for splody heads from the right.

186

Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:10:33am

bbl

187

Mattand Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:10:40am

re: #180 ggt

Fox News (in the background in my house) says it was struck down.

SCOTUS blog says it survives as a tax.

I'll go with the guys who know the SCOTUS for a living, LOL.

188

HappyWarrior Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:11:05am

re: #187 Mattand

I'll go with the guys who know the SCOTUS for a living, LOL.

Same.

189

RogueOne Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:11:15am

re: #187 Mattand

I'll go with the guys who know the SCOTUS for a living, LOL.

They're saying it survives as a tax, roberts joins the left.

190

simoom Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:11:19am

Scotusblog:

Tom: So the mandate is constitutional. Chief Justice Roberts joins the left of the Court.

191

simoom Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:11:41am

Amy Howe: The Medicaid provision is limited but not invalidated.

192

lawhawk Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:11:43am

So the mandate is constitutional. Chief Justice Roberts joins the left of the Court.

I can't wait to read the decision, though it looks like the Court's website is flooded with requests so any downloads of pdfs is going to be a while.

193

Mattand Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:11:51am

re: #190 simoom

Scotusblog:

Scalia meltdown in 3.. 2.. 1..

194

celticdragon Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:11:58am

MSNBC reporting mandate survivies as tax

195

blueraven Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:12:05am

Roberts sides with left saying mandate is constitutional as a tax

196

simoom Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:12:20am

Sounds like CNN is starting to walk back their initial report.

197

HappyWarrior Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:12:25am

Roberts was part of the left bloc when they made the Arizona decision too I believe. I preferred Roberts to Alito of Bush's two judicial picks.

198

Aye Pod Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:12:48am

Wow. Dr Isambard Zebediah Butthurt is gonna have a busy time ahead.

199

brennant Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:12:51am

I have to say that I'm quite shocked

200

Mattand Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:13:27am

re: #195 blueraven

Roberts sides with left saying mandate is constitutional as a tax

I'm really torn on this. I really don't like the individual mandate, but something needed to be done about HCR.

And if it fucks up a conservative's day? Well, there's that.

201

celticdragon Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:13:42am

The bottom line: the entire ACA is upheld, with the exception that the federal government's power to terminate states' Medicaid funds is narrowly read.

202

Aye Pod Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:13:46am

Tom:
The bottom line: the entire ACA is upheld, with the exception that the federal government's power to terminate states' Medicaid funds is narrowly read.

203

blueraven Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:13:48am

The bottom line: the entire ACA is upheld, with the exception that the federal government's power to terminate states' Medicaid funds is narrowly read. SCOTUS

204

HappyWarrior Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:13:53am

re: #200 Mattand

I'm really torn on this. I really don't like the individual mandate, but something needed to be done about HCR.

And if it fucks up a conservative's day? Well, there's that.

Yeah I preferred the public option given the choice.

205

lawhawk Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:14:07am

The Medicaid provision is limited but not invalidated.

206

celticdragon Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:14:33am

Now we know why Scalia had such a cause of hemorroids two days ago on the bench.

207

iossarian Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:14:53am

re: #200 Mattand

I'm really torn on this. I really don't like the individual mandate, but something needed to be done about HCR.

And if it fucks up a conservative's day? Well, there's that.

I really think the mandate paves the way for a system like the Swiss (and German?) ones where you basically get a low-income subsidy for what effectively becomes a minimum level of care (which is where the subsequent political battles are fought).

208

blueraven Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:15:21am

re: #206 celticdragon

Now we know why Scalia had such a cause of hemorroids two days ago on the bench.

Exactly what I have been thinking since that day.

209

iossarian Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:15:37am

re: #206 celticdragon

Now we know why Scalia had such a cause of hemorroids two days ago on the bench.

Imagine if he quits in disgust.

210

Targetpractice Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:15:49am

So, time for the Snoopy Dance?

211

HappyWarrior Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:16:00am

Heh Romney said last night while he was campaigning here in Va, "I think the WH isn't sleeping well." Well Mitt I am glad you slept well so you could wake up nice and early for the decision and pie in your face.

212

RogueOne Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:16:07am

OK, it sounds like they can't force people to buy insurance through the mandate but they can tax people who don't. I don't remember the solicitor general arguing that distinction, did Roberts and Kennedy do it for him?

213

Our Precious Bodily Fluids Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:16:07am

re: #206 celticdragon

Now we know why Scalia had such a cause of hemorroids two days ago on the bench.

Pre-existing condition, resulting from craniorectal dislocation early in life.

214

Buck Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:16:25am

re: #153 Mattand

It was the preferred Republican method of healthcare for nearly 20 years until Obama decided to push it.

Not true. It was talked about 20 years ago, but rejected as an economic nightmare more than ten years ago.

215

Bulworth Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:17:04am

re: #212 RogueOne

OK, it sounds like they can't force people to buy insurance through the mandate but they can tax people who don't. I don't remember the solicitor general arguing that distinction, did Roberts and Kennedy do it for him?

Well, since the ACA doesn't actually force people to buy insurance but does penalize/tax them if they don't then that would make sense.

216

iossarian Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:17:23am

re: #214 Buck

Not true. It was talked about 20 years ago, but rejected as an economic nightmare more than ten years ago.

Yeah, all those people in Germany living through an economic nightmare.

217

Aye Pod Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:17:47am

re: #206 celticdragon

Now we know why Scalia had such a cause of hemorroids two days ago on the bench.

The orders are piling in already!

Youtube Video

218

Page 3 in the Binder of Women Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:17:53am

Holy Cannoli

219

blueraven Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:18:04am

Cheers to Justice Roberts!

220

Mocking Jay Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:18:06am

Beware exploding wingnut heads for the rest of the morning into late afternoon...

221

HappyWarrior Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:18:31am

Who wrote the decision? Roberts? Kennedy?

222

celticdragon Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:18:38am

re: #212 RogueOne

OK, it sounds like they can't force people to buy insurance through the mandate but they can tax people who don't. I don't remember the solicitor general arguing that distinction, did Roberts and Kennedy do it for him?

Pretty much. The Soliciter didn't want to argue the tax angle for public relations purposes.

223

simoom Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:18:41am

Wolf concern trolling the SCOTUS saying the mandate was upheld under the Congress's taxing power.

224

abolitionist Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:18:43am

I have a pre-existing condition. It's a trivial consequence of my birthday. I'm old.

225

Decatur Deb Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:19:01am

Obama just ripped off our idea!!1 Yeah Romneycare!!

226

andres Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:19:09am

re: #214 Buck

Time sure flies. I mean, wasn't in 2008 the last time the Republicans endorsed the idea? And at the start of the HC debate, they didn't insist on the mandate (and many other ideas) until the Democrats accepted them?

227

lawhawk Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:19:35am

Our precedent demonstrates that Congress had the power to impose the exaction in Section 5000A under the taxing power, and that Section 5000A need not be read to do more than impose a tax. This is sufficient to sustain it.

228

celticdragon Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:19:38am

re: #214 Buck

Not true. It was talked about 20 years ago, but rejected as an economic nightmare more than ten years ago.

Having some problems with the truth again. It does seem to be elusive for you, I must admit.

229

Aye Pod Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:20:03am

Amy Howe:
The money quote from the section on the mandate: Our precedent demonstrates that Congress had the power to impose the exaction in Section 5000A under the taxing power, and that Section 5000A need not be read to do more than impose a tax. This is sufficient to sustain it.

230

Randall Gross Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:20:08am

[Link: www.scotusblog.com...]

231

RogueOne Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:20:14am

re: #215 Bulworth

Actually they argued that the commerce clause gave them the authority to force people to buy insurance, the court disagreed. OTOH, the feds do have the right to enact a tax on those that don't have insurance.

232

Randall Gross Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:21:19am

fr the scroll at Scotusblog

The money quote from the section on the mandate: Our precedent demonstrates that Congress had the power to impose the exaction in Section 5000A under the taxing power, and that Section 5000A need not be read to do more than impose a tax. This is sufficient to sustain it.
10:20
Amy Howe: The court reinforces that individuals can simply refuse to pay the tax and not comply with the mandate.

233

Targetpractice Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:21:23am

re: #229 Aye Pod

Amy Howe:
The money quote from the section on the mandate: Our precedent demonstrates that Congress had the power to impose the exaction in Section 5000A under the taxing power, and that Section 5000A need not be read to do more than impose a tax. This is sufficient to sustain it.

JUDICIAL ACTIVISM!

234

Killgore Trout Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:21:30am

CNN: The Supreme Court backs all parts of President Obama’s signature health care law.
That's unexpected good news.

235

simoom Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:22:44am

CNN just said Robert's opinion ends by stating something like the court doesn't endorse the wisdom of the legislation, that will be left to the American people. Kind of an odd aside...

236

erik_t Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:23:06am

HAHAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Drinks are on me.

237

Mattand Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:23:16am

re: #214 Buck

Not true. It was talked about 20 years ago, but rejected as an economic nightmare more than ten years ago.

Yeah, that's not what I was saw down here.

Why do you think Obama went with the mandate in the first place? Again, his presumptive rival as a GOP governor enacted it in Massachusetts.

I'd have to do some research, but I'm betting there was no conservative hand wringing back then.

238

RogueOne Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:23:17am

More from SCOTUS Blog: "The court reinforces that individuals can simply refuse to pay the tax and not comply with the mandate. "

I don't get it. We can't "refuse to pay" taxes.

239

NJDhockeyfan Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:23:22am

Good morning lizards!

What an exciting morning! This will be talked about for weeks :)

240

blueraven Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:23:35am

re: #234 Killgore Trout

Suck it Jeffrey Toobin!

241

Randall Gross Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:23:35am

10:21
Amy Howe: On the Medicaid issue, a majority of the Court holds that the Medicaid expansion is constitutional but that it w/b unconstitutional for the federal government to withhold Medicaid funds for non-compliance with the expansion provisions.
10:22
Lyle: The key comment on salvaging the Medicaid expansion is this (from Roberts): "Nothing in our opinion precludes Congress from offering funds under the ACA to expand the availability of health care, and requiring that states accepting such funds comply with the conditions on their use. What Congress is not free to do is to penalize States that choose not to participate in that new program by taking away their existing Medicaid funding." (p. 55)
10:22
Amy Howe: To be clear, what we are typing here are excerpts from the opinion or paraphrasing thereof. Not predictions anymore.

242

nines09 Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:23:39am

I hear fire crackers? Gunshots? Oh. Wingnut heads. Mitt Bot 2012 is being retrofitted to perform as mandate was good all along. His idea after all.

243

Targetpractice Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:23:42am

re: #235 simoom

CNN just said Robert's opinion ends by stating something like the court doesn't endorse the wisdom of the legislation, that will be left to the American people. Kind of an odd aside...

Translation: "No, we're not taking a side in this fight."

244

simoom Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:24:06am

CNN concern trolling the taxing authority thing again, saying Obama pledged not to raise middle class taxes.

245

lawhawk Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:24:11am

On the Medicaid portion of the decision:

Nothing in our opinion precludes Congress from offering funds under the ACA to expand the availability of health care, and requiring that states accepting such funds comply with the conditions on their use. What Congress is not free to do is to penalize States that choose not to participate in that new program by taking away their existing Medicaid funding.

Apparently, that's a way to deal with unfunded mandates and apportioning revenues to Medicaid funding. States still have rights to those revenues, even if they opt out of portions of the new program.

246

celticdragon Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:24:24am

Roberts saved the mandate. it was 5-4.

247

celticdragon Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:25:01am

Betsy Mccaughey is having kittens at this point.

248

simoom Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:25:07am

SCOTUSblog:

Tom: Apologies - you can't refuse to pay the tax; typo. The only effect of not complying with the mandate is that you pay the tax.

249

RogueOne Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:25:10am

re: #246 celticdragon

Roberts saved the mandate. it was 5-4.

Isn't that weird? If Kennedy voted with Roberts then who voted against?

250

Mattand Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:25:37am

re: #244 simoom

CNN concern trolling the taxing authority thing again, saying Obama pledged not to raise middle class taxes.

You're witnessing the birth of the major GOP talking point from now until November. "Obama raised taxes!"

Fox News is falling down on the job.

251

celticdragon Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:25:46am

Tom:
Apologies - you can't refuse to pay the tax; typo. The only effect of not complying with the mandate is that you pay the tax.

252

celticdragon Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:26:12am

re: #249 RogueOne

Isn't that weird? If Kennedy voted with Roberts then who voted against?

I think Kennedy voted against.

253

Targetpractice Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:26:16am

re: #246 celticdragon

Roberts saved the mandate. it was 5-4.

And thus begins the accusations that Roberts swung just to avoid the court being accused of becoming just another branch of the GOP.

254

Randall Gross Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:26:19am

re: #248 simoom

SCOTUSblog:

Glad you caught that I was scratching my head on that...

255

celticdragon Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:27:10am

Talking heads on MSNBC saying Roberts did want his court to go down as throwing out health care and being infamous for the next 100 years.

256

lawhawk Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:27:15am

re: #238 RogueOne

More from SCOTUS Blog: "The court reinforces that individuals can simply refuse to pay the tax and not comply with the mandate. "

I don't get it. We can't "refuse to pay" taxes.

You can refuse to pay taxes - but then you'd have to pay penalties. That's the point. Noncompliance provisions kick in, and therefore your choice is to either pay the tax or the penalty provisions. There are consequences to nonpayment of taxes.

Roberts is targeting the fact that Congress has the power to tax - and 26 USC 5000A is a tax provision. If an individual chooses not to pay the tax, they'd be hit with the appropriate penalties.

That Congress structured the penalties to help raise revenues to fund HCR is irrelevant to the Court's decision. The taxing powers are unquestioned.

257

Mocking Jay Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:27:44am

re: #247 celticdragon

Betsy Mccaughey is having kittens at this point.

And Ginny Thomas is trying to find Anita Hill's number again.

258

Our Precious Bodily Fluids Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:27:53am

re: #192 lawhawk

So the mandate is constitutional. Chief Justice Roberts joins the left of the Court.

Does this mean that Roberts now becomes Public Enemy #1 on talk radio / RWNJ blogs, et al?

259

Interesting Times Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:28:40am

BREAKING: The Onion sues CNN
— The Daily Edge (@TheDailyEdge) June 28, 2012

260

Bulworth Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:28:56am

re: #258 Temporarily Embarrassed Millionaire

Does this mean that Roberts now becomes Public Enemy #1 on talk radio / RWNJ blogs, et al?

Yes.

Roberts was bullied by the Chicago thug in the WH and by teh gay agenda and by the angry left ACORN!!

261

Mattand Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:29:05am

re: #258 Temporarily Embarrassed Millionaire

Does this mean that Roberts now becomes Public Enemy #1 on talk radio / RWNJ blogs, et al?

Hell, yeah. Look what happened to the Bush judge who ruled in the Dover Intelligent Design case. He's still probably getting death threats.

262

Mocking Jay Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:29:14am

re: #258 Temporarily Embarrassed Millionaire

Does this mean that Roberts now becomes Public Enemy #1 on talk radio / RWNJ blogs, et al?

His devotion to the cause is in serious doubt right now.

263

nines09 Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:29:23am

re: #258 Temporarily Embarrassed Millionaire

He's a SCJINO.

264

William Barnett-Lewis Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:30:12am

If there is one thing SCOTUS doesn't want it's chaos. Had they thrown out ACA there would have been too many other things open to question based on that ruling. Now we just need to move from this half step to full single payer & be done with it.

265

Targetpractice Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:30:13am

The view of America from Canada: a mixture of love, bafflement, and fear. Like watching a clumsy magician.
— Chris Jones (@MySecondEmpire) June 28, 2012

266

HappyWarrior Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:30:21am

re: #258 Temporarily Embarrassed Millionaire

Does this mean that Roberts now becomes Public Enemy #1 on talk radio / RWNJ blogs, et al?

Given the right's hostility to judges who rule against them, that's an easy yes. Hell if Roberts ever has a seizure again, heaven forbid, one of the nutcases will claim it's God punishing him.

267

celticdragon Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:30:33am

Lyle:
In opening his statement in dissent, Kennedy says: "In our view, the entire Act before us is invalid in its entirety."

Kennedy playing the contrarion concern troll again.

268

Aye Pod Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:30:49am

"This means that President Obama's first term in office was not a waste" - Mitt Romney//

269

Mattand Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:30:55am

re: #262 It's a cookbook!

His devotion to the cause is in serious doubt right now.

On an actual serious note: Roger Ailes isn't going to take this lying down. Expect a full on News Corp assault on Roberts. He's joining Newt in the Pariah box.

270

simoom Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:31:02am

re: #250 Mattand

You're witnessing the birth of the major GOP talking point from now until November. "Obama raised taxes!"

Fox News is falling down on the job.

They've caught on now. Greta on Fox is now doing it too.

271

Obdicut Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:31:02am

re: #253 Targetpractice

And thus begins the accusations that Roberts swung just to avoid the court being accused of becoming just another branch of the GOP.

I dunno. I've heard people say that Roberts, while crushingly conservative, is a brilliant and deeply principled guy. He seems a cut above Scalia and Alioto.

272

Mocking Jay Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:31:04am

re: #264 William Barnett-Lewis

If there is one thing SCOTUS doesn't want it's chaos. Had they thrown out ACA there would have been too many other things open to question based on that ruling. Now we just need to move from this half step to full single payer & be done with it.

Heh. Give us some time to breathe, bro.

273

RogueOne Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:31:34am

re: #256 lawhawk

According to MSNBC the HCR law says you don't actually have to pay the penalty, it's not a criminal offense, that's where they're coming up with the you don't have to pay it. So I could, if I didn't have insurance, refuse to pay the "tax".

274

celticdragon Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:31:40am

re: #261 Mattand

Hell, yeah. Look what happened to the Bush judge who ruled in the Dover Intelligent Design case. He's still probably getting death threats.

I wrote extensively about the Dover case in a paper for a class last year. The town was ripped apart socially. Really sad.

275

Aye Pod Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:31:56am

I have to say that like so many others I was very gloomy about this and expected the worst.

I'm gonna go and relay the good news to ice. (Out shopping) Catch you all later :)

276

Interesting Times Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:31:57am

BREAKING: US Supreme Court rules that thousands of pundits, bloggers and legal experts are totally full of shit. #p2 #tcot #SCOTUS
— Shoq Value (@Shoq) June 28, 2012

277

mr.fusion Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:31:58am

Like I've said from the beginning....

This is no more a mandate to buy insurance than my having to pay a higher tax rate than someone who has a mortgage or kids is a mandate on me to buy a house or procreate

278

celticdragon Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:32:11am

Tom:
We're still here. Getting deeper into the weeds. Plain English coming momentarily.

279

Big Steve Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:32:15am

Look....after all the crying about the court becoming political, they simply did their job here and looked at the case law and reached a decision. This reaffirms the constitutional plan of setting the supreme court above politics and jobs for life. I wonder now if the Tax Appeal court now has jurisdiction if someone fails to pay it.

280

Targetpractice Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:32:39am

re: #271 Obdicut

I dunno. I've heard people say that Roberts, while crushingly conservative, is a brilliant and deeply principles guy. He seems a cut above Scalia and Alioto.

I've had that impression, but scuttlebutt for a long time was that he's openly talked about how he doesn't want the current court to be seen in history as the most conservative one ever.

281

simoom Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:32:39am

So SCOTUSblog looked really good in all of this. They lagged a few seconds behind the cable news channels but they got it right out of the gate.

282

Mattand Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:32:51am

re: #267 celticdragon

Kennedy playing the contrarion concern troll again.

re: #271 Obdicut

I dunno. I've heard people say that Roberts, while crushingly conservative, is a brilliant and deeply principles guy. He seems a cut above Scalia and Alioto.

My dog is a cut above Scalia. Unlike the judge, he actually cares about people.

283

lawhawk Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:32:56am

Once again, I really can't wait to get my hands on the actual decision to see for myself what they're saying. I hate getting this stuff second hand.

284

Bulworth Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:33:02am

Angry left is spiking the football!!

285

erik_t Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:33:38am

re: #271 Obdicut

I dunno. I've heard people say that Roberts, while crushingly conservative, is a brilliant and deeply principled guy. He seems a cut above Scalia and Alioto.

(stares at Obdicut stoically)

286

Mocking Jay Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:33:51am

re: #275 Aye Pod

I have to say that like so many others I was very gloomy about this and expected the worst.

I'm gonna go and relay the good news to ice. (Out shopping) Catch you all later :)

Crikey. My smartphone's had half a dozen alerts on this by now. Surely you guys have at least 3G service over there.

287

Bulworth Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:33:56am

Obama's raised taxes on billions of hard-working Americans!!

288

Targetpractice Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:34:26am

It's a good day when Anthony Kennedy can blither away and nobody gets hurt. cpp #SCOTUS
— Esquire Politics (@ESQPolitics) June 28, 2012

289

Bulworth Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:34:28am

Taxes highest ever!!

290

RogueOne Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:34:35am

re: #283 lawhawk

Once again, I really can't wait to get my hands on the actual decision to see for myself what they're saying. I hate getting this stuff second hand.

So far I've heard 5-4, 6-3, and 8-2 on a variety of points. I'm a little confused.

291

bratwurst Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:34:44am

Care to wager how long it takes for the Chief Justice to begin receiving death threats?

292

Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:34:47am

Roberts just demonstrated why, no matter how much you might think you know the 'conservative versus liberal political' bent, the Justices are notoriously independent minded. I don't think Roberts can ever be called a right winger with a straight face.

Roberts looked for a reason to uphold the ACA it seems, and that the issue was a taxation issue and not the commerce clause that upheld ACA is an interesting point.

293

William Barnett-Lewis Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:34:51am

re: #209 iossarian

Imagine if he quits in disgust.

Alas, he would never do something that good for America...

294

Mattand Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:35:10am

re: #287 Bulworth

Obama's raised taxes on billions of hard-working Americans!!

Well, if the GOP had gone with expanding Medicaid or single payer, we wouldn't be in this situation.

295

Mocking Jay Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:35:18am

Breaking: Right-wing majority branch performs act of governance.

296

Big Steve Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:35:20am

re: #283 lawhawk

Once again, I really can't wait to get my hands on the actual decision to see for myself what they're saying. I hate getting this stuff second hand.

Ditto.....it is not up on the SCOTUS site yet. I am accused by many on being a total nerd but I do like reading their rulings. BTW the stolen valor case is up and they reaffirmed the appeal court that the law is unconstitutional under the first amendment.

297

erik_t Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:35:42am

Saddest & most hilarious of trombones. RT @AriFleischer: I miss Justice Harriet Miers.
— delrayser (@delrayser) June 28, 2012

Giggle.

298

Mattand Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:35:45am

re: #291 bratwurst

Care to wager how long it takes for the Chief Justice to begin receiving death threats?

About 20 minutes ago.

299

celticdragon Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:36:24am

Amy Howe:
Yes, to answer a common question, the whole ACA is constitutional, so the provision requiring insurers to cover young adults until they are 26 survives as well.

300

HappyWarrior Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:36:34am

re: #292 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All

Roberts just demonstrated why, no matter how much you might think you know the 'conservative versus liberal political' bent, the Justices are notoriously independent minded. I don't think Roberts can ever be called a right winger with a straight face.

Roberts looked for a reason to uphold the ACA it seems, and that the issue was a taxation issue and not the commerce clause that upheld ACA is an interesting point.

My favorite part of Woodward's The Brethren was the story about Justice Harlan, regarded as a conservative but also a guy who didn't bother voting in any election because he wanted to be independent minded as possible.

301

Interesting Times Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:36:53am

Bwahaha so much Twitter WIN this morning:

BREAKING: Romney campaign team is up on the roof of the bus, and something brown and icky is sliding down the windows. #p2 #scotus
— Shoq Value (@Shoq) June 28, 2012

302

Mocking Jay Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:37:44am

re: #295 It's a cookbook!

Breaking: Right-wing majority branch ~~performs~~ commits act of governance.

edited for obstructionist-Americans.

303

William Barnett-Lewis Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:38:04am

re: #272 It's a cookbook!

Heh. Give us some time to breathe, bro.

OK, have Obama introduce the legislation in his second inaugural address then... ;)

304

Targetpractice Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:38:07am

I imagine that when the decision finally gets released in full, the going over of with a fine-toothed comb will mean more than a few headaches. But for now, the law is upheld, so I'd say it's time to celebrate.

Youtube Video

305

lawhawk Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:38:30am

re: #290 RogueOne

Without the decision in hand, I can't tell you for certain, but even if everything were decided 5-4, the ACA as a whole was upheld.

From what I can tell, the individual mandate was upheld 5-4, while other aspects of the decision had concurring or separate opinions that add up to 6-3 or 8-2. That often indicates different rationales to arrive at the same result.

306

NJDhockeyfan Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:38:43am

Kali: Here is the opinion in the health care cases: [Link: www.supremecourt.gov...]

307

Big Steve Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:38:50am

Stolen Valor act.....

The Nation well knows that one of the costs of the First Amendment is that it protects the speech we detest as well
as the speech we embrace. Though few might find respondent’s statements anything but contemptible, his right to make those statements is protected by the Constitution’s guarantee of freedom of speech and expression. The Stolen Valor Act infringes upon speech protected by the First Amendment.
The judgment of the Court of Appeals is affirmed.

Very well written.....

308

celticdragon Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:38:56am

Kennedy still trolling ~~reading~~ his opinion from the bench...

309

lawhawk Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:40:17am

re: #296 Big Steve

I gave up trying to download that case; I'll wait until later in the day.

And it will be interesting to read the dissents, because that sheds as much light on the rationale given by the majority as the majority opinion itself.

310

Mocking Jay Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:40:20am

And now we must all buy broccoli.

311

celticdragon Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:40:43am

I can't wait to read the massive butthurt in the opinions from Thomas and Fat Tony.

312

lawhawk Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:40:49am

[Link: www.supremecourt.gov...] - the Decision.

313

Targetpractice Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:40:50am

re: #310 It's a cookbook!

And now we must all buy broccoli.

Cool, I love broccoli.

314

SpaceJesus Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:41:04am

DOING CARTWHEELS THROUGH PUDDLES OF WINGER TEARS

315

simoom Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:41:07am

Fox is claiming the decision means states can opt out of the exchanges based on the medicaid limitation or something. Greta seemed to try and get them to hold off pushing that while she was reading the ruling.

316

celticdragon Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:41:24am

re: #310 It's a cookbook!

And now we must all buy broccoli.

And then make tasty stir fry.

317

wrenchwench Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:41:28am

re: #305 lawhawk

Without the decision in hand, I can't tell you for certain, but even if everything were decided 5-4, the ACA as a whole was upheld.

From what I can tell, the individual mandate was upheld 5-4, while other aspects of the decision had concurring or separate opinions that add up to 6-3 or 8-2. That often indicates different rationales to arrive at the same result.

PDF of the Ruling

For those of you struggling to get through to the Supreme Court site, here is the full ruling.

.pdf, care of WSJ.

318

HappyWarrior Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:41:44am

re: #305 lawhawk

Without the decision in hand, I can't tell you for certain, but even if everything were decided 5-4, the ACA as a whole was upheld.

From what I can tell, the individual mandate was upheld 5-4, while other aspects of the decision had concurring or separate opinions that add up to 6-3 or 8-2. That often indicates different rationales to arrive at the same result.

7-2 you mean? My guess is that Thomas and Scalia were the only constant dissenters.

319

Targetpractice Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:42:06am

Bob Dole's 1993 health care plan (AKA Obama's Affordable Care Act) ruled constitutional!
— Esquire Politics (@ESQPolitics) June 28, 2012

320

Mocking Jay Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:42:10am

re: #316 celticdragon

And then make tasty stir fry.

Stealth Chinese takeover of our values.

321

mr.fusion Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:42:12am

From HA

The only solution is armed revolt

jephthah on June 28, 2012 at 10:33 AM

322

RogueOne Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:42:19am

re: #318 HappyWarrior

7-2 you mean? My guess is that Thomas and Scalia were the only constant dissenters.

Yeah, I meant 7-2 also. From the Ginsberg portion: "seven members of theCourt...buy the argument that prospective withholding of anticipated funds exceeds Congress' spending power."

323

S'latch Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:42:22am

It is significant that the Court ruled that Congress's authority comes from the power to tax, not the Commerce Clause.

324

RogueOne Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:42:49am

re: #322 RogueOne

Yeah, I meant 7-2 also. From the Ginsberg portion: "seven members of theCourt...buy the argument that prospective withholding of anticipated funds exceeds Congress' spending power." on the medicaid portion...I think.

Doh! that was supposed to be an edit of my earlier post.

325

Targetpractice Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:43:32am

re: #323 Lawrence Schmerel

It is significant that the Court ruled that Congress's authority comes from the power to tax, not the Commerce Clause.

Indeed, but how many of those who have been predicting doomsday should the ACA survive intact do you imagine are gonna point out that distinction?

326

mr.fusion Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:43:38am

re: #283 lawhawk

Once again, I really can't wait to get my hands on the actual decision to see for myself what they're saying. I hate getting this stuff second hand.

Link

327

darthstar Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:43:44am

Free pap smears for everyone!

I think it's great that CNN had a story up for 10 minutes about how the ACA was overturned...so Fox-like.

Shut up Wolf, and take your pap smear like a man.

328

brennant Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:44:15am

re: #327 darthstar

Shut up Wolf, and take your pap smear like a man.

I lol'd

329

lawhawk Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:44:49am

re: #318 HappyWarrior

Typo. In downloading the decision, I overlooked and edit time expired.

330

darthstar Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:45:16am

Indiv. Mandate seen as a tax.Cue #Romney saying we should cut Individual Mandates for millionaires. #p2
— Sean McCabe (@darthstar99) June 28, 2012

331

iossarian Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:45:20am

Thankfully I already have some broccoli in the fridge, so I won't get shafted when panic buying sends brassica prices through the roof.

332

Big Steve Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:45:30am

Years ago I was, by the barest of margins, tangentially involved in a case that went to the Supreme Court. On my own nickel I attended the oral arguments. During which the attorney for "our" side totally got his ass handed to him and the opposing attorney got a love fest. I came away and reported to my board that our goose was cooked. Three months later the decision came out 7-2 in our favor. So I have to laugh at all the pundits who predicted Obamacare's demise after the oral arguments.

333

celticdragon Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:45:40am

re: #318 HappyWarrior

7-2 you mean? My guess is that Thomas and Scalia were the only constant dissenters.

Kennedy was against the whole thing, it seems.

334

jaunte Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:46:20am

re: #319 Targetpractice

Bob Dole is pleased. Bob Dole told you so.

335

CuriousLurker Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:46:25am

Just to reiterate a few key points form SCOTUSblog

Amy Howe: The court reinforces that individuals can simply refuse to pay the tax and not comply with the mandate.

Tom: Apologies - you can't refuse to pay the tax; typo. The only effect of not complying with the mandate is that you pay the tax.

Amy Howe: On the Medicaid issue, a majority of the Court holds that the Medicaid expansion is constitutional but that it w/b unconstitutional for the federal government to withhold Medicaid funds for non-compliance with the expansion provisions.

Amy Howe: Another way to think about Medicaid: the Constitution requires that states have a choice about whether to participate in the expansion of eligibility; if they decide not to, they can continue to receive funds for the rest of the program.

Amy Howe: The Court holds that the mandate violates the Commerce Clause, but that doesn't matter b/c there are five votes for the mandate to be constitutional under the taxing power.

Amy Howe: The Court holds that the Anti-Injunction Act doesn't apply because the label "tax" is not controlling.

Amy Howe: Yes, to answer a common question, the whole ACA is constitutional, so the provision requiring insurers to cover young adults until they are 26 survives as well.

Kali: Here is the opinion in the health care cases: [Link: www.supremecourt.gov...]

336

HappyWarrior Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:46:55am

re: #333 celticdragon

Kennedy was against the whole thing, it seems.

I never would have guessed that.

337

darthstar Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:47:48am

The SCOTUS will uphold an Obama law when the Giants sweep the Dodgers in a three game shut-out.

338

Big Steve Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:47:56am

It is up.....here is the heart of it....

The Affordable Care Act’s requirement that certain individuals pay a financial penalty for not obtaining health insurance may reasonably be characterized as a tax. Because the Constitution permits such a tax, it is not our role to forbid it, or to pass upon its wisdom or fairness.

339

HappyWarrior Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:48:09am

re: #329 lawhawk

Typo. In downloading the decision, I overlooked and edit time expired.

IT's cool. Kudos on nailing the decision by the way. I thought they would overturn the mandate and maybe even the whole thing.

340

lawhawk Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:48:28am

Seriously? The Constitution died today? That's what ALG is saying:

June 28, 2012, Fairfax, VA—Americans for Limited Government President Bill Wilson today issued the following statement reacting to the Supreme Court's decision to uphold Obamacare:

"The U.S. Constitution died today. The underlying hope and belief that our nation's founding document protected individual freedoms from an ever encroaching government is a thing of the past based upon this ruling. It is inconceivable how these nine lifetime appointed jurists could have decided to keep a law that is such a blatant intrusion into each of our lives, but the result of their decision is that individuals can no longer rely on the federal government power being limited by anything other than the political pressure their individual elected representatives feel. Ultimately, the Supreme Court has opted out of the battle to retain our freedoms, and has thrown in entirely with those who advocated for unlimited government authority. It is truly a sad day for our nation."

Congress has the constitutional power to tax. That's as constitutional as it gets. The Court upheld the Constitution; these clowns simply don't agree with the decision and its outcome.

341

Targetpractice Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:48:46am

re: #338 Big Steve

It is up...here is the heart of it...

In other words, they only read it as a tax, they're not going to pass judgment on said tax. Fair enough.

342

iossarian Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:49:10am

re: #340 lawhawk

Seriously? The Constitution died today? That's what ALG is saying:

Congress has the constitutional power to tax. That's as constitutional as it gets. The Court upheld the Constitution; these clowns simply don't agree with the decision and its outcome.

These people probably dispute the constitutionality of income taxes.

343

prairiefire Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:49:11am

Hooray!!! Hooray, hoorayy, hoooorayyyyy!!!!

344

HappyWarrior Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:49:54am

re: #340 lawhawk

Seriously? The Constitution died today? That's what ALG is saying:

Congress has the constitutional power to tax. That's as constitutional as it gets. The Court upheld the Constitution; these clowns simply don't agree with the decision and its outcome.

The Constitution died today? Hyperbole much Wilson.

345

Mocking Jay Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:50:05am

re: #340 lawhawk

Seriously? The Constitution died today? That's what ALG is saying:

Congress has the constitutional power to tax. That's as constitutional as it gets. The Court upheld the Constitution; these clowns simply don't agree with the decision and its outcome.

Morans.

346

Bulworth Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:50:10am

"The U.S. Constitution died today.

Does that mean no more electoral college?

347

Big Steve Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:50:13am

re: #341 Targetpractice

In other words, they only read it as a tax, they're not going to pass judgment on said tax. Fair enough.

Yea.....well I am going off line to read it now......BBL with other good parts.

348

HappyWarrior Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:50:18am

re: #342 iossarian

These people probably dispute the constitutionality of income taxes.

Of course they do.

349

Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:50:26am

re: #340 lawhawk

Seriously? The Constitution died today? That's what ALG is saying:

Congress has the constitutional power to tax. That's as constitutional as it gets. The Court upheld the Constitution; these clowns simply don't agree with the decision and its outcome.

One of my cow-orkers stated that with this decision, Congress now has unlimited power to pass whatever laws it likes. That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard, but I wasn't going to call it as such.

350

erik_t Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:50:33am

re: #340 lawhawk

Seriously? The Constitution died today? That's what ALG is saying:

Yes! Yesss! Oh, let me taste your tears, Scott! Mm, your tears are so yummy and sweet! Oh, the tears of unfathomable sadness! My-yummy!

351

darthstar Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:51:07am

Well, the good news is that @CNN and @FoxNews can focus on the real news - CONTEMPT CHARGES!!! OMFGZ #p2 #ACA #republicanfail
— Sean McCabe (@darthstar99) June 28, 2012

352

celticdragon Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:51:09am

Lyle:
Essentially, a majority of the Court has accepted the Administration's backup argument that, as Roberts put it, "the mandate can be regarded as establishing a condition -- not owning health insurance -- that triggers a tax -- the required payment to IRS." Actually, this was the Administration's second backup argument: first argument was Commerce Clause, second was Necessary and Proper Clause, and third was as a tax. The third argument won.

353

S'latch Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:51:24am

The Constitution did not die today. To the contrary, a limit on the Commerce Clause has been announced.

354

darthstar Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:51:25am

re: #340 lawhawk

It was old.

355

Talking Point Detective Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:51:27am

So -

Was Roberts' vote an example of principle over politics?

Or did he just vote based on an interpretation that striking the mandate would hurt Republicans?

356

CuriousLurker Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:51:40am

re: #340 lawhawk

Seriously? The Constitution died today? That's what ALG is saying:

Here we go with the melodrama. *eyeroll*

357

Killgore Trout Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:51:48am

Related news: I'm having another tight month financially and will just barely make my health insurance payment. I just realized we have a long holiday weekend so hopefully my emergency bank transfer will make it in time.

358

Obdicut Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:52:34am

re: #340 lawhawk

Seriously? The Constitution died today? That's what ALG is saying:

Congress has the constitutional power to tax. That's as constitutional as it gets. The Court upheld the Constitution; these clowns simply don't agree with the decision and its outcome.

But but but that means congress could tax anything!

Wingnut fears of too much government power is always funny to me because the constitution is meant to be a workable framework for a government, not some foolproof logic puzzle that is absolutely perfectly worked out to disallow government from being stupid or tyrannical.

It's a very good framework, but there's nothing in the constitution to prevent, say, the government from making a treaty that allows complete military access to another nation, or binds us to commit our entire armed forces to a conflict elsewhere in the world, or to sell off 99% of the land mass.

People have this magical faith in the constitution, and I think when they see something happening that they don't like, they declare it unconstitutional because to them only the things they want, done in the way that they want, are constitutional.

359

darthstar Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:52:50am

Yesterday, Mitt Romney joked that they weren't sleeping well at the White House...people remember that kind of petty high-school level bullying shit.

Yo, Mitt Romney, i guess they'll sleep well a the WH tonight, ah?
— BWD (@theonlyadult) June 28, 2012

360

celticdragon Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:53:01am

re: #346 Bulworth

Does that mean no more electoral college?

It means broccoli in every pot.

361

erik_t Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:53:12am

Good job, good effort, CNN!

362

Targetpractice Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:53:36am

And the wingnuts I'm reading on another board seem to already have their marching orders in place: "Obama just raised your taxes!"

363

Daniel Ballard Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:53:53am

re: #340 lawhawk

Absolutely. It's celebration time.

I have maintained that the legal way to do this is tax and benefit, even the ever growing commerce clause was not big and stretchy enough to cover this mandate per se. I feel somewhat vindicated on that part. I thought the rest would be upheld and it was.

I'm really glad to see that decision. As a tax, fine. Otherwise the Feds can't make us buy anything. The states can of course. Famously car insurance for drivers. Smoke alarms etc. I'm thrilled with this decision.

364

jaunte Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:53:57am

re: #356 CuriousLurker

Here we go with the melodrama. *eyeroll*

Here's a little:

This is the greatest destruction of individual liberty since Dred Scott. This is the end of America as we know it. No exaggeration.
— benshapiro (@benshapiro) June 28, 2012

365

brennant Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:53:57am

re: #361 erik_t

Good job, good effort, CNN!

Fail Horn

366

sagehen Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:54:04am

re: #292 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All

Roberts just demonstrated why, no matter how much you might think you know the 'conservative versus liberal political' bent, the Justices are notoriously independent minded. I don't think Roberts can ever be called a right winger with a straight face.

Roberts looked for a reason to uphold the ACA it seems, and that the issue was a taxation issue and not the commerce clause that upheld ACA is an interesting point.

Roberts is one of those few "conservatives" who actually *is* conservative, not just one of those right-wingers who call themselves conservative.

367

darthstar Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:54:07am

Mitt mutters under his breathe so low that only the closest can hear: "It's actually Romneycare. I thought of it first..."
— Charles M. Blow (@CharlesMBlow) June 28, 2012

368

HappyWarrior Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:54:37am

re: #362 Targetpractice

And the wingnuts I'm reading on another board seem to already have their marching orders in place: "Obama just raised your taxes!"

Someone I know wrote no taxation without representation. Uh Congress passed the bill, they are the representation.

369

Mocking Jay Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:54:39am

re: #364 jaunte

Here's a little:

[Embedded content]

Yes! Give me moar!

370

iossarian Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:55:06am

re: #364 jaunte

Here's a little:

[Embedded content]

"The end of America as we (the modern right) know it" sounds like quite a good thing to me.

371

HappyWarrior Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:55:46am

re: #364 jaunte

Here's a little:

[Embedded content]

A punk like Shaprio would supported the court on Scott. And I guess he forgot Plessy, oh wait discriminating on basis of race is freedom!

372

darthstar Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:56:04am

Loud chanting outside SCOTUS right now: "We love Obamacare." twitter.com/jbendery/statu...
— jennifer bendery (@jbendery) June 28, 2012

373

Obdicut Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:56:13am

re: #362 Targetpractice

And the wingnuts I'm reading on another board seem to already have their marching orders in place: "Obama just raised your taxes!"

Heh. Yeah.

Obama just raised taxes on people who don't have the personal responsiblity to acquire health insurance, even when acquiring it has been made much easier than it was before.

It's easy to see why the personal mandate used to be the GOP solution; it's based on personal responsibility. Likewise, it's easy to see why it no longer is: they're no longer a party that actually cares at all about personal responsibility.

374

Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:56:18am

re: #370 iossarian

"The end of America as we (the modern right) know it" sounds like quite a good thing to me.

This, right here. I love it.

375

HappyWarrior Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:56:58am

re: #359 darthstar

Yesterday, Mitt Romney joked that they weren't sleeping well at the White House...people remember that kind of petty high-school level bullying shit.

[Embedded content]

That's what amuses me most about it. Mitt has a lot of egg on his face right now and it's not coming off for a long time.

376

wrenchwench Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:57:03am

SCOTUS: I CAN HAS OBAMACARE! SHARE AND RT! :-) twitter.com/voidmstr/statu...
— Dennis Wilen (@voidmstr) June 28, 2012

377

SpaceJesus Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:57:50am

commerce clause all up in dis cons-tushin'

378

jaunte Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:57:55am

"And for a counter-point, we now go to this man dressed as a colonial soldier carrying a misspelled sign."
— Eli Reusch (@eli_reusch) June 28, 2012

379

Daniel Ballard Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:57:58am

re: #292 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All

I like the push back on the harshest left leaning critics of SCOTUS. That has been overblown since the corporation as person decision which I would agree is tragically wrong. But it did not happen because of manipulations. It happened because of how they saw the letter of the law.

SCOTUS is far more likely to be wrong than cravenly partisan. And I refer to left and right.

But not today! Today they got it right.

380

William of Orange Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:58:00am

I love the smell of victory in the morning!!

Serious. I'm not even American, I'm Dutch. But it thrills me to see that you all now have a shot at a style of health care I enjoy since my birth! Insurance here is mandatory and the level of health care is at a high standard and afordable. You won't get bankrupt if you're a victim of cancer. Everyone who pays for insurance shares your burden is it were.

381

Targetpractice Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:58:21am

re: #373 Obdicut

Heh. Yeah.

Obama just raised taxes on people who don't have the personal responsiblity to acquire health insurance, even when acquiring it has been made much easier than it was before.

It's easy to see why the personal mandate used to be the GOP solution; it's based on personal responsibility. Likewise, it's easy to see why it no longer is: they're no longer a party that actually cares at all about personal responsibility.

It's really all they have left. Screaming "We lost, America is kaput!" raises too many eyebrows of those around who are looking at their taxes and wondering when a new tax being levied meant the end of America. So they gotta scare people by going "Obama's gonna tax you!" and putting him arguing that the mandate is not a tax on an endless loop.

382

Interesting Times Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:59:00am

re: #360 celticdragon

It means broccoli in every pot.

Speaking of said vegetable, am I evil for thinking of it photoshopped with Scalia in the following Hieronymus Bosch work? >:)

383

Mocking Jay Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:59:09am

MSNBC now telling me that this is good for Romney.

sigh

384

Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:59:26am

Ah, the delicious bittersweet smell of wingnut tears. I think that will be an appropriate seasoning for today's inevitable troll barbecue. I'd better get the grill heated up.

385

Sionainn Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:59:55am

re: #382 Interesting Times

Speaking of said vegetable, am I evil for thinking of it photoshopped with Scalia in the following Hieronymus Bosch work? >:)

LOL!

386

erik_t Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:00:01am

re: #383 It's a cookbook!

MSNBC now telling me that this is good for Romney.

sigh

But is it good news for John McCain?

387

Big Steve Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:00:02am

key reason the court rejected the mandate under the commerce clause....

The proximity and degree of connection between the mandate and the subsequent commercial activity is too lacking to justify an exception of the sort urged by the Government. The individual mandate forces individuals into commerce precisely because they elected to refrain
from commercial activity. Such a law cannot be sustained under a clause authorizing Congress to “regulate
Commerce.”

388

Targetpractice Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:00:26am

re: #383 It's a cookbook!

MSNBC now telling me that this is good for Romney.

sigh

Yeah, that's what we're likely to hear for awhile now, "People hate the ACA, so this helps Romney." Reality is most people would have been even more mad had it been struck down and they were left to rely upon the current GOP to actually craft new healthcare reform.

389

Killgore Trout Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:01:26am

Ed Morrisey has his talking points ready to go....

Basically, this is a tax that you have to pay to private companies. For all of the screaming the Right did over single-payer — and for good, outcome-based reasons — at least the taxes raised to fund it would go directly to government. The Supreme Court has signed off on what is, in very practical terms, a tax levied by the insurance industry on Americans simply for existing. It’s an amazing, and fearsome, decision that really should have both Right and Left horrified.

Nevertheless, this is the law of the land. We can now look forward to taxes levied by the auto industry for not having bought a new car in the last seven years, the liquor industry for buying too few bottles of wine to maintain your health, and by the agricultural industry for not buying that damned broccoli after all. We might even have Obama attempt to impose a tax for not buying enough contraception; we can call that the Trojan tax.

390

Patricia Kayden Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:02:11am

I am so happy about the Supreme Court decision. Cannot believe it! This is historic and a well deserved victory for the President.

391

jaunte Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:02:22am

Next they'll be taxing everyone's slippery slopes.

392

Interesting Times Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:02:38am

Antonin Scalia just spotted unfriending Jon Roberts on multiple social networking sites.
— Ian Shepherdson (@IanShepherdson) June 28, 2012

393

HappyWarrior Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:02:43am

re: #389 Killgore Trout

Ed Morrisey has his talking points ready to go...

What a hysterical nutcase.

394

Talking Point Detective Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:02:46am

re: #310 It's a cookbook!

And now we must all buy broccoli.

Broccoli futures up 200% since the decision was announced.

395

iossarian Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:02:48am

re: #391 jaunte

Next they'll be taxing everyone's slippery slopes.

Over my cold dead skis.

396

Daniel Ballard Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:03:11am

Who would agree this locks up the election for Obama?
Or tilts well in his favor?

397

Mocking Jay Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:03:12am

Does this mean Romney has to figure out what the "replace" in "Repeal and Replace" means?

398

bratwurst Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:03:31am

Justice Thomas had this to say:
— Michael McKean (@MJMcKean) June 28, 2012

399

jaunte Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:03:45am

#SCOTUS UPDATE: Romney Blasts Supreme Court, Calling Affordable Care Act 'Worst Idea I Ever Had'
— Andy Borowitz (@BorowitzReport) June 28, 2012

400

Mocking Jay Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:03:55am

re: #396 Daniel Ballard

Who would agree this locks up the election for Obama?

Not sure how anyone would come to that conclusion.

401

CuriousLurker Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:04:05am

WATCH LIVE #VIDEO: Sen. Harry Reid reacts to #SCOTUS ruling wapo.st/OD3xBk
— The Washington Post (@washingtonpost) June 28, 2012

402

blueraven Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:04:23am

re: #396 Daniel Ballard

Who would agree this locks up the election for Obama?

Not so sure...it will fire up the R- base.
Better than had it gone the other way fer sure!

403

Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:04:27am

Pundit sighting!

Image: crabby.jpg

404

Targetpractice Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:04:27am

re: #396 Daniel Ballard

Who would agree this locks up the election for Obama?

I'd say it puts Romney in an immensely piss-poor position, considering the mandate as it now stands is Romneycare is all but name. But locks the election for Obama? I'd have to say that it only makes it more likely he'll be reelected, doesn't guarantee that he will.

405

Killgore Trout Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:04:40am

re: #394 Talking Point Detective

Broccoli futures up 200% since the decision was announced.

What's with the broccoli? Is Hot Air the only one pushing that slippery slope to broccoli mandates or are others using that one as well? This is the first I've heard of it.

406

SpaceJesus Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:05:03am

To: Windflier
Emphasize ammo there. The Obama plan is to get rid of ammo, since it’s easier than getting rid of the 2nd Amendment. I had heard that Soros was buying ammo manufacturing companies. Get lots of ammo while you can, America.
395 posted on Thursday, June 28, 2012 10:48:54 AM by butterdezillion
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 368 | View Replies]

To: illinifan
Time to armor up. Queue Tony Stark:

“If we can’t protect the Earth, you can be damn sure we’ll avenge it.”

396 posted on Thursday, June 28, 2012 10:49:14 AM by Shadowfax
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 383 | View Replies]

Freep: TO ARMS BRAVE MINUTE MEN
*opens another bag of funyuns*

407

iossarian Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:05:11am

re: #396 Daniel Ballard

Who would agree this locks up the election for Obama?

No, but I do think it's good news for the millions of Americans who are currently at risk from easily-treatable conditions, due to their precarious financial position.

408

Big Steve Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:05:35am

I just finished reading the majority decision that the mandate is a tax. But as I am reading it...

By contrast, Congress’s authority under the taxing power is limited to requiring an individual to pay money into the Federal Treasury, no more. If a tax is properly paid, the Government has no power to compel or punish individuals subject to it.

I believe the court feels that since the mandate is a tax and the only requirement is that one pays it to the federal treasury, that there is no requirement for the government to use it on health care. Hummm

409

blueraven Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:05:36am

re: #405 Killgore Trout

What's with the broccoli? Is Hot Air the only one pushing that slippery slope to broccoli mandates or are others using that one as well? This is the first I've heard of it.

Scalia referenced it during oral arguments

410

Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:05:52am

Now an interesting little thought. By limiting the power to withhold medicaid funds to states, how will this affect state implementation, Will states opposed to the ACA be able to prevent implementation of certain aspects of the ACA and only have funds related to the ACA withheld?

Will there be states who will 'on principle' try to do something along those lines?

It's a little confusing because I'm presuming the additional medicaid funding that would be provided for implementation of the ACA is related to the medicaid expansion, so I think it's possible for individual states to do so with only limited repercussions.

In other words, If, for example, you're single making 15K under the ACA you could qualify for medicaid, but only if the states implement it. And the ability to coerce the states to do so was limited by the Supreme Court ruling.

411

Mocking Jay Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:05:55am

re: #405 Killgore Trout

What's with the broccoli? Is Hot Air the only one pushing that slippery slope to broccoli mandates or are others using that one as well? This is the first I've heard of it.

Huh? That's been a meme for months.

412

sagehen Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:05:56am

re: #342 iossarian

These people probably dispute the constitutionality of income taxes.

If you read the constitution only up to the 15th Amendment, and go no further, then indeed income tax would seem to be clearly unconstitutional.

(many "OMG UNCONSTITUTIONAL!!" arguments are from people who don't read to the end. Like those who get obsessed with the 10th Amendment, and refuse to acknowledge how much the 14th narrows it.)

413

Targetpractice Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:06:05am

re: #405 Killgore Trout

What's with the broccoli? Is Hot Air the only one pushing that slippery slope to broccoli mandates or are others using that one as well? This is the first I've heard of it.

It was Scalia's contribution to the ACA hearings, namely blathering on the infamous bit about if the government can mandate you to buy health insurance to keep you healthy, then it can mandate you buy broccoli because it also keeps your healthy.

414

lawhawk Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:06:05am

The decision shows limits to the Commerce Clause (negative -non- acts are not commerce). Necessary and proper didn't enter into the equation; by deciding on the tax and spend provisions, the Court did not have address remaining issues because by upholding the individual mandate, it can fund remaining provisions.

Individual mandate affects commerce by compelling persons to become active in commerce. By limiting the Commerce Clause in this fashion, Roberts and the Court actually address major concerns by the Right on unfettered intrusion into markets.

The individual mandate, however, does not regulate existing commercial activity. It instead compels individuals to become active in commerce by purchasing a product, on the ground that their failure to do so affects interstate commerce. Construing the Commerce Clause to permit Congress to regulate individuals precisely because they are doing nothing would open a new and potentially vast domain to congressional authority. Every day individuals do not do an infinite number of things. In some cases they decide not to do something; in others they simply fail to do it. Allowing Congress to justify federal regulation by pointing to the effect of inaction on commerce would bring
countless decisions an individual could potentially make within the scope of federal regulation, and—under the Government’s theory—empower Congress to make those decisions for him.

And Roberts cites the Framers:

To an economist, perhaps, there is no difference between activity and inactivity; both have measurable economic effects on commerce. But the distinction between doing something and doing nothing would not have been lost on the Framers, who were “practical statesmen,” not metaphysical philosophers. Industrial Union Dept., AFL–CIO v. American Petroleum Institute, 448 U. S. 607, 673 (1980) (Rehnquist, J., concurring in judgment). As we have explained, “the framers of the Constitution were not mere visionaries, toying with speculations or theories, but practical men, dealing with the facts of political life as they understood them, putting into form the government they were creating, and prescribing in language clear and intelligible the powers that government was to take.” South Carolina v. United States, 199 U. S. 437, 449 (1905). The Framers gave Congress the power to regulate Commerce, not to compel it, and for over 200 years both our decisions and Congress’s actions have reflected this understanding. There is no reason to depart from that understanding now

415

William of Orange Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:06:33am

Fairly neutral headline for foxnews, though I'm affraid the links will be full of vitriol...

Image: 16gj0ib.gif

416

darthstar Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:06:34am

I haven't seen the GOP this mad since bin Laden got killed. #lolgop #p2 #ACA
— Sean McCabe (@darthstar99) June 28, 2012

417

Daniel Ballard Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:06:40am

Crap,

I just got back from the online RightWingMedia Store. They are totally out of hyperbole! That's never happened before. The shelves are empty.

418

celticdragon Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:06:45am

11.03 am. Why do some people hate America? From NRO:

I honestly cannot believe this many Americans are retarded and think this way. As if one law will make premiums go through the roof. God damn I'm ashamed to say I'm American. Selfish assholes, all of you.

The National Review now says we are selfish assholes and we make America cry.

419

Killgore Trout Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:06:45am

re: #396 Daniel Ballard

Who would agree this locks up the election for Obama?
Or tilts well in his favor?

I don't know. I think public opinion is more or less divided so I'm not sure how much it helps Obama. It might hurt Mitt because he now had to run on the platform of repealing Obamacare without anything to replace it. That could be a problem.

420

Killgore Trout Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:07:37am

re: #409 blueraven

Scalia referenced it during oral arguments

Ah, thanks.

421

Daniel Ballard Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:08:21am

re: #407 iossarian

It's the best possible news in my home. My wife has had arthritis since she was a baby. JRA it's called. If I was not at work we would be drinking champagne.

422

HappyWarrior Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:08:36am

re: #418 celticdragon

11.03 am. Why do some people hate America? From NRO:

The National Review now says we are selfish assholes and we make America cry.

The NRO is calling people selfish assholes. Yeah I'm a selfish asshole becasue I don't want to be denied coverage because of my heart condition but you're a patriot when you write the shit John Derbyshire does. Got it, NRO.

423

Obdicut Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:08:52am

This is good for Obama because it shows Democrats can win things which is something that Democrats have completely fucking forgotten about.

424

Kronocide Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:08:59am

broccoli florets in every pot

425

mr.fusion Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:09:18am

re: #419 Killgore Trout

I don't know. I think public opinion is more or less divided so I'm not sure how much it helps Obama. It might hurt Mitt because he now had to run on the platform of repealing Obamacare without anything to replace it. That could be a problem.

At this point, I kind of expect the majority of Americans to sort of wash their hands of the health care debate......I think they're done having this fight and ready to move on, and any pol that tries to make it a central part will be punished (save for the dark red areas of the country)

426

makeitstop Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:09:38am

I must admit, I am stunned by this decision. And more than a little suspicious. I keep wondering what Scalia's got up his sleeve.

427

HappyWarrior Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:09:40am

re: #423 Obdicut

This is good for Obama because it shows Democrats can win things which is something that Democrats have completely fucking forgotten about.

Dem base needed a morale booster for sure.

428

iossarian Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:09:41am

re: #421 Daniel Ballard

It's the best possible news in my home. My wife has had arthritis since she was a baby. JRA it's called. If I was not at work we would be drinking champagne.

I'm really glad that the law has a positive effect on you. I have family members in similar situations.

429

lawhawk Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:10:13am

re: #408 Big Steve

Not my reading; a tax is a tax; how the government uses revenues raised is beyond the scope of the decision (they were considering the constitutionality of imposing the individual mandate). Since they found that the justifications under the Commerce Clause and by extension Necessary and Proper were not valid (and limit the power of Congress to act using those grounds btw), the Congressional power to tax and spend is reaffirmed.

430

HappyWarrior Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:10:15am

re: #421 Daniel Ballard

It's the best possible news in my home. My wife has had arthritis since she was a baby. JRA it's called. If I was not at work we would be drinking champagne.

Slainte to you and your wife. It's a good day.

431

Targetpractice Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:10:32am

re: #425 mr.fusion

At this point, I kind of expect the majority of Americans to sort of wash their hands of the health care debate...I think they're done having this fight and ready to move on, and any pol that tries to make it a central part will be punished (save for the dark red areas of the country)

I think the question of how to reform the reform in light of the decision will come up, but making it the centerpiece of this election is a mistake, one the GOP would pay for dearly.

432

darthstar Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:10:32am

This almost makes up for Roberts screwing up Obama's oath of office.

433

darthstar Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:10:55am

Time to ramble...catch you all later. Happy day.

434

ShaunP Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:11:37am

Footnote 11, p. 44: "The only thing they may not lawfully do is not buy health insurance and not pay the resulting tax." #SCOTUS #ACA

— Jimmy So (@jimmyso) June 28, 2012

435

wrenchwench Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:12:05am

In retaliation to today's SCOTUS decision conservatives vow to stop calling it Obamacare and refer to it a JusticeRobertsCare.#p2
— justamexican (@justamexican) June 28, 2012

436

Killgore Trout Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:12:14am

re: #423 Obdicut

This is good for Obama because it shows Democrats can win things which is something that Democrats have completely fucking forgotten about.

This has been in the works for a very long time, at least since the Clinton years. There is cause for celebration that it passed and has been upheld by the courts. It would be a very long time before there's another chance to get this done.

437

Eventual Carrion Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:13:57am

re: #368 HappyWarrior

Someone I know wrote no taxation without representation. Uh Congress passed the bill, they are the representation.

Ahhh, the slogans repeated without knowing their history and what they truly mean.

438

jaunte Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:14:40am

Fox's Bill O'Reilly said he'd "apologize for being an idiot" if ‪the Supreme Court upheld the Affordable Care Act.

Youtube Video

439

HappyWarrior Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:14:46am

When you think about HCR was something that every president from FDR to Obama tried, and Obama succeeded in the end where others failed. It's a huge mark for his legacy.

440

prairiefire Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:16:06am

Play the "spot the conservative and liberal" game on the Fox News live feed. A lot of the liberal guys look grimy! I think they look like they slept on the steps of the court house.

441

William of Orange Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:16:07am

Time for cooking!

We're going to make soup out of wingnut tears, and make them eat it!

442

Big Steve Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:16:10am

re: #429 lawhawk

Not my reading; a tax is a tax; how the government uses revenues raised is beyond the scope of the decision (they were considering the constitutionality of imposing the individual mandate). Since they found that the justifications under the Commerce Clause and by extension Necessary and Proper were not valid (and limit the power of Congress to act using those grounds btw), the Congressional power to tax and spend is reaffirmed.

Yea but....all other taxes go into the government coffers and are budgetarily spent upon congressional approval. So if one doesn't have medical insurance and therefore has to pay the mandate penalty as a tax, by law, the money goes to the Feds to do as they please. So mandate penalties as a tax could, for example, go to buying more fighter jets.

443

Talking Point Detective Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:16:29am

re: #417 Daniel Ballard

Crap,

I just got back from the online RightWingMedia Store. They are totally out of hyperbole! That's never happened before. The shelves are empty.

Stealin' it.

444

Kronocide Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:16:56am

re: #438 jaunte

Shut Up. SHUT IT.

445

brennant Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:17:57am

re: #417 Daniel Ballard

Crap,

I just got back from the online RightWingMedia Store. They are totally out of hyperbole! That's never happened before. The shelves are empty.

"The jerk store called, they're running out of you!"

446

prairiefire Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:18:34am

The conservatives were clinging to the support of the wrong shade of the law! They were wrong, wrong, wrong.

447

William Barnett-Lewis Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:18:35am

re: #396 Daniel Ballard

Who would agree this locks up the election for Obama?
Or tilts well in his favor?

Locks it up? No. Helps him, yes. More than the same-sex marriage bit did but probably about as much as the DREAM executive order did. As a group of wins for the president it's rather like Truman vs his "do nothing" congress. Hopefully Obama can win and "make them like it" as well :D

448

erik_t Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:18:49am

Hooray! The new tagline is, apparently, "#fullrepeal'. Forget that whole 'and replace' thing; the US health care system is Grade A+ Number One.

449

Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:19:58am

re: #448 erik_t

Hooray! The new tagline is, apparently, "#fullrepeal'. Forget that whole 'and replace' thing; the US health care system is Grade A+ Number One.

Amercia, fuck yeah!

450

jaunte Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:20:23am

Tommy Christopher:

"...Republicans are mourning the loss of an idea that they thought up, and one which candidate Obama rightly mocked, comparing it to solving homelessness by mandating that everyone buy a house. In another life, Mitt Romney articulated the dickish conservative rationale behind the mandate, not as a way to ensure that people get decent health care, but to slap around all those Emergency Room freeloaders...."
[Link: www.mediaite.com...]

451

Targetpractice Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:20:42am

So now the GOP will vote to hold Holder in contempt just to have something to point and go "See, we won!"

452

The Ghost of a Flea Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:20:55am

Wingnut tears smell like...victory. And Funyuns.

...actually, the Funyuns are kind of dominating the victory.

453

Big Steve Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:20:59am

I just want to say, having just read it, that the dissenting opinion is very well written.

454

HappyWarrior Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:21:18am

re: #447 William Barnett-Lewis

Locks it up? No. Helps him, yes. More than the same-sex marriage bit did but probably about as much as the DREAM executive order did. As a group of wins for the president it's rather like Truman vs his "do nothing" congress. Hopefully Obama can win and "make them like it" as well :D

Hopefully he gets a Dem congress like Truman did. I'd be happy with gains and keeping the Senate though.

455

Kronocide Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:22:23am

re: #451 Targetpractice

So now the GOP will vote to hold Holder in contempt just to have something to point and go "See, we won!"

GOP Dude throws mudball at Holder, get's mud on his slacks.

We got the dirt on him!

456

AK-47% Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:23:26am

Can Romney now be for Obamacare again? Will he still have to overturn it once he gets elected or can he just rename it?

457

prairiefire Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:23:55am

re: #450 jaunte

Tommy Christopher:

The Republicans would not accept the constitutional premise of congress's right to tax. They stuck to the first part, "you can't make me do something!" Well, yes, actually, congress can make you pay tax. Idiots! It's because of their natural prejudice against paying taxes.

458

Targetpractice Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:24:46am

re: #456 Expand Your Ground

Can Romney now be for Obamacare again? Will he still have to overturn it once he gets elected or can he just rename it?

I figure he'll continue pounding the "Repeal It!" bit, but will come under increasing scrutiny as to what he intends to replace it with, which like most of his talking points, will amount to him mumbling that he doesn't know now, but he'll surely have a decision after he's elected.

459

ShaunP Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:24:47am

I'm expecting this line to gain some steam:

Roberts Labels Obama a Tax Raiser

Got good news and bad news for you, Mr. President. The good news is that Chief Justice John Roberts just saved your legacy and, perhaps, your presidency by writing for the Supreme Court majority to rule health care reform constitutional.

Bad news is he declared you a tax-raiser...

460

celticdragon Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:25:02am

Best comment I have read today from Balloon Juice:

dmsilev Says:

I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if a million conservatives cried out in terror and unfortunately were not suddenly silenced.

461

Kronocide Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:25:12am

The Virtue of ~~Selfishness~~ Dickishness
Ayn Rand's original title but the editors didn't like it.

462

mr.fusion Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:26:08am

President will be making a statement at 12:15 (which probably means closer to 1:00)

463

jaunte Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:27:08am

Eric Cantor:

“The Supreme Court’s decision to uphold ObamaCare is a crushing blow to patients throughout the country.
...snip...
During the week of July 9th, the House will once again repeal ObamaCare, clearing the way for patient-centered reforms that lower costs and increase choice.”
[Link: majorityleader.gov...]

464

lawhawk Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:27:50am

From pg 39:

The joint dissenters argue that we cannot uphold
&sect5000A as a tax because Congress did not “frame” it as such. Post, at 17. In effect, they contend that even if the Constitution permits Congress to do exactly what we interpret this statute to do, the law must be struck down because Congress used the wrong labels. An example may help illustrate why labels should not control here. Suppose Congress enacted a statute providing that every taxpayer who owns a house without energy efficient windows must pay $50 to the IRS. The amount due is adjusted based on factors such as taxable income and joint filing status, and is paid along with the taxpayer's income tax return. Those whose income is below the filing threshold need not pay. The required payment is not called a penalty or anything else. No one would doubt that this law imposed a tax, and was within Congress's power to tax. That conclusion should not change simply because Congress used the word "penalty" to describe the payment. Interpreting such a law to be a tax would hardly impose a tax through judicial legislation. Post, at 25. Rather, it would give practical effect to the Legislature's enactment.

Also, Ginsberg would have affirmed the individual mandate on Commerce Clause grounds and by extension the Necessary and Proper clause.

465

blueraven Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:28:01am

Rand Paul still declaring ACA unconstitutional.
Says just because a "couple of people on the SC says it is, doesn't make it so".

Nuts

466

Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:28:41am

re: #465 blueraven

Rand Paul still declaring ACA unconstitutional.
Says just because a "couple of people on the SC says it is, doesn't make it so".

Nuts

He's an elected official and he doesn't understand how the government works. What the heck.

467

Targetpractice Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:28:51am

re: #463 jaunte

Eric Cantor:

The House will vote once again to repeal it, and the Senate will once again either vote against doing so or just allow it to die due to filibuster.

Impotent fist shaking, it's all the rage amongst the GOP.

468

HappyWarrior Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:28:57am

re: #463 jaunte

Eric Cantor:

Tell that to those with preexisting conditions you jerk. Oh and this makes Virginia's other jackass, Ken Cuccinnelli look like a fool since he was tilting at windmills against this from the getgo.

469

Bulworth Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:29:00am

“The Supreme Court’s decision to uphold ObamaCare is a crushing blow to patients throughout the country.

Derp.

But I'm touched Cantor cares so much about patients, who now because of the ACA won't ever be able to have healthcare again, ever. //

470

wrenchwench Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:30:07am

I fear for the avian population.

A lot of people are eating crow today.

471

Targetpractice Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:30:43am

re: #468 HappyWarrior

Tell that to those with preexisting conditions you jerk. Oh and this makes Virginia's other jackass, Ken Cuccinnelli look like a fool since he was tilting at windmills against this from the getgo.

This state seems to send an inordinately large number of assholes to higher office, doesn't it?

472

Bulworth Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:30:55am

During the week of July 9th, the House will once again repeal ObamaCare, clearing the way for patient-centered reforms that lower costs and increase choice.”

Is this typical, for the House to pass legislation it has already passed during the same session of Congress?

clearing the way for patient-centered reforms that lower costs and increase choice

Ha Ha

473

HappyWarrior Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:30:56am

re: #465 blueraven

Rand Paul still declaring ACA unconstitutional.
Says just because a "couple of people on the SC says it is, doesn't make it so".

Nuts

What a whiny little douche. It's the very definition of the constitutional as the highest court in the land upheld it. He doesn't have to like it but it is what it is and he and his kook of a father can stop whining.

474

jaunte Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:31:15am

re: #468 HappyWarrior

Tell that to those with preexisting conditions you jerk. Oh and this makes Virginia's other jackass, Ken Cuccinnelli look like a fool since he was tilting at windmills against this from the getgo.

I guess he doesn't need those voters.

475

HappyWarrior Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:32:00am

re: #471 Targetpractice

This state seems to send an inordinately large number of assholes to higher office, doesn't it?

Yep, gotta stop George from returning. That's just as important as keeping Mitt out of the wH.

476

wrenchwench Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:32:23am

re: #463 jaunte

During the week of July 9th, the House will once again repeal ObamaCare, clearing the way for patient-centered reforms that lower costs and increase choice.

I first read that as "politics-centered reforms". I wonder why....

477

makeitstop Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:32:58am

I've gotta say, the mass freakout on the Right is really something to see. They thought they had this one in the bag.

Does this mean that Scalia/Alito/Roberts are now 'activist judges?'

478

Bulworth Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:33:06am

clearing the way for patient-centered reforms that lower costs and increase choice

We have a double super secret probation plan to magically lower costs and increase 'choice'.

They must mean the Ryan plan to end Medicare as we know it.

479

Targetpractice Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:33:10am

re: #473 HappyWarrior

What a whiny little douche. It's the very definition of the constitutional as the highest court in the land upheld it. He doesn't have to like it but it is what it is and he and his kook of a father can stop whining.

The Paulians believe that "judicial review" is actually unconstitutional and that the Supreme Court's job is only to weigh in on the constitutionality of laws, that Congress still has the final say over whether an unconstitutional law will be enforced or not.

480

Obdicut Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:33:44am

re: #473 HappyWarrior

There's nothing wrong with saying you think a SC case was improperly decided. That's one way of saying a law isn't constitutional, in your opinion.

That doesn't mean it's not absolutely constitutional according to the way our government works.

It's a nuancy bit freaks like Rand use to agitate.

481

Targetpractice Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:34:10am

re: #477 makeitstop

I've gotta say, the mass freakout on the Right is really something to see. They thought they had this one in the bag.

Does this mean that Scalia/Alito/Roberts are now 'activist judges?'

They thought they had it in the bag because they figured Roberts a solid "No" and were expecting Kennedy to have an attack of the dumbass and once again concern troll his way into voting against the mandate and thus the entire ACA.

They were only half-right.

482

justaminute Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:34:27am

I am so happy that this passed, especially in March when I received a credit or a reimbursement from my insurance company. Thanks to the medical cost ratio in Obamacare, my insurance company made give me a $300 credit on my premiums. Of course the letter from the insurance company said congratulations on being healthy this year and not a word about Obamacare.

I have always been overcharged because I am lucky that I have a benign form of Multiple Sclerosis. I have always been overcharged when I received that diagnosis even though I am not on any medication and have had only two problems since 2000 when I was diagnosed.

Today is a good day for me. I still hope that we can make it better as time passes.

483

lawhawk Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:34:30am

How Toobin and CNN got it wrong initially. Forgetting that there's more than one way to arrive at an outcome.

484

HappyWarrior Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:34:38am

re: #479 Targetpractice

The Paulians believe that "judicial review" is actually unconstitutional and that the Supreme Court's job is only to weigh in on the constitutionality of laws, that Congress still has the final say over whether an unconstitutional law will be enforced or not.

I love how both of them are treated as if they know what they're talking about in regards to the Constitution and economics as well.

485

abolitionist Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:35:42am

re: #424 Kronocide

broccoli florets in every pot

Unless you're on a blood thinner*, perhaps. In such cases, it may be wise to skip the pot.

*not intended to be medical advice

486

HappyWarrior Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:36:22am

re: #480 Obdicut

There's nothing wrong with saying you think a SC case was improperly decided. That's one way of saying a law isn't constitutional, in your opinion.

That doesn't mean it's not absolutely constitutional according to the way our government works.

It's a nuancy bit freaks like Rand use to agitate.

Exactly, he's saying the law is still unconstitutional though. It's the old adage- "You are entitled to your opinion but not the facts."

487

Talking Point Detective Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:37:06am

re: #482 justaminute

I am so happy that this passed, especially in March when I received a credit or a reimbursement from my insurance company. Thanks to the medical cost ratio in Obamacare, my insurance company made give me a $300 credit on my premiums. Of course the letter from the insurance company said congratulations on being healthy this year and not a word about Obamacare.

I have always been overcharged because I am lucky that I have a benign form of Multiple Sclerosis. I have always been overcharged when I received that diagnosis even though I am not on any medication and have had only two problems since 2000 when I was diagnosed.

Today is a good day for me. I still hope that we can make it better as time passes.

When I start to think about how this law is a sell out to insurance companies, I remind myself how many people are substantially helped by its existence.

488

The Left Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:38:02am

Just back from a tour of the wingnut blogs, drinking tasty wingnut tears. They're really losing it!

489

Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:38:18am

re: #487 Talking Point Detective

When I start to think about how this law is a sell out to insurance companies, I remind myself how many people are substantially helped by its existence.

It's a step in the right direction, but not the full solution.

490

Mocking Jay Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:38:39am

re: #488 Millicent Islam

Just back from a tour of the wingnut blogs, drinking tasty wingnut tears. They're really losing it!

Butthurt level red?

491

SpaceJesus Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:39:28am

Aaaand at least 3 libertarian friends of mine on facebook now think we have universal healthcare

492

Targetpractice Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:39:29am

This might be the one day I tune into Rush's show, just to listen to him lose it on air. He was all set last week to "spike the football" and lord it over us. Experience tells me that he's gonna whine the entire time about how he doesn't wanna eat that crow because it's not seasoned properly.

493

Talking Point Detective Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:39:44am

re: #473 HappyWarrior

What a whiny little douche. It's the very definition of the constitutional as the highest court in the land upheld it. He doesn't have to like it but it is what it is and he and his kook of a father can stop whining.

These people are such complete frauds.

What I love most about this is that they can't use the usual fraudulent polemic for decisions they don't like - judges overruling laws enacted by elected representatives.

494

The Left Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:40:14am

re: #490 It's a cookbook!

Butthurt level red?

Sure is! How you doing, cutie?

495

Talking Point Detective Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:41:30am

re: #489 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

It's a step in the right direction, but not the full solution.

I think there will be no full solution along with fee for service - but this law helps a lot of people, and in particular people who need help the most.

That's the bottom line.

496

ShaunP Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:41:35am

re: #459 ShaunP

I'm expecting this line to gain some steam:

Roberts Labels Obama a Tax Raiser

On ~~que~~ cue:

Now that we know #Obamacare is indeed a #jobkilling #Tax we should move to #RepealObamacare as soon as possible. #letsvote #tcot #sayfie
— Marco Rubio (@marcorubio) June 28, 2012

497

Our Precious Bodily Fluids Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:41:58am

Poe's Law strikes.

[Link: www.buzzfeed.com...]

Parody is no longer possible.

498

simoom Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:42:47am

Obama lied to the American people. Again. He said it wasn't a tax. Obama lies; freedom dies.
— Sarah Palin (@SarahPalinUSA) June 28, 2012

499

HappyWarrior Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:42:54am

re: #492 Targetpractice

This might be the one day I tune into Rush's show, just to listen to him lose it on air. He was all set last week to "spike the football" and lord it over us. Experience tells me that he's gonna whine the entire time about how he doesn't wanna eat that crow because it's not seasoned properly.

Romney was in our state last night pulling what now looks to be a Nate Newton.*
* Nate Newton was a Dallas Cowboy who on a fumble recovery holding the ball insecurely in one arm, the offensive players caught up to him and knocked the ball out of his hand. Can't imagine what Rush is saying. He said Secretary Clinton was a MB member recently. Can't imagine what he'll say about Roberts.

500

HappyWarrior Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:43:52am

re: #498 simoom

[Embedded content]

And you lied to the American people when you said that there would be death panels and it was unconstitutional, Sarah.

501

erik_t Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:44:12am

re: #498 simoom

Pretty damned daring of Sarah Palin to attempt a semicolon.

502

HappyWarrior Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:45:03am

re: #496 ShaunP

On ~~que~~ cue:

[Embedded content]

Yeah let's vote on it and watch the repeal get killed by the Senate, then what Marco?

503

Eventual Carrion Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:45:14am

re: #498 simoom

Obama lied to the American people. Again. He said it wasn't a tax. Obama lies; freedom dies.
— Sarah Palin (@SarahPalinUSA) June 28, 2012

Yeah Sarah, and you lied about wanting a full term as governor of your state. Crawl back under a caribou and suckle on its excrement.

504

Mocking Jay Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:45:50am

re: #494 Millicent Islam

Sure is! How you doing, cutie?

Better today than I was yesterday!

505

prairiefire Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:46:48am

Jeffrey Toobin had that look like "oh shit, I'm going to get fired today" just a minute ago.

506

Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:47:35am

re: #495 Talking Point Detective

I think there will be no full solution along with fee for service - but this law helps a lot of people, and in particular people who need help the most.

That's the bottom line.

I think the necessary solution is going to eventually be universal coverage via the government in some form. This gets us out of the mess with coverage being restricted/denied due to "religious belief", profit-making priorities, etc. Rolling this step back would have left the current mess in place for another decade (at least) with the additional labor friction over who will pay for the increasing costs as real wages stay stagnant, plus the ongoing issue with the non-insured.

Unless, of course, our society is going to switch gears and be very willing to see corpses lying in the streets and refusing access to care to those without the ways and means to afford it directly.

507

A Mom Anon Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:48:16am

Thank God this was upheld. My son is 18 and high functioning autistic. I have no idea on earth how we could have ever afforded medical and dental insurance for him on an individual stand alone policy. So,we'd have had a kid with no insurance if anything went wrong or just taking him for a check up.

I know it's a giveaway to the insurance companies,but without it,my son would be screwed. So I'm really happy about this. Hopefully in a few years we can make a run at real universal care,but for now,this takes a huge stress off our family.

508

erik_t Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:48:23am

re: #506 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Unless, of course, our society is going to switch gears and be very willing to see corpses lying in the streets and refusing access to care to those without the ways and means to afford it directly.

That's not a gear-switch for 30% of our society.

509

Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:48:31am

re: #498 simoom

[Embedded content]

Oh, I wondering what that giant crab crawling out of the trash can was.

Image: crabincan.jpg

510

Talking Point Detective Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:48:51am

re: #492 Targetpractice

This might be the one day I tune into Rush's show, just to listen to him lose it on air. He was all set last week to "spike the football" and lord it over us. Experience tells me that he's gonna whine the entire time about how he doesn't wanna eat that crow because it's not seasoned properly.

Good idea. I think he's coming on shortly in Philly. Should be good for a laugh.

511

Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:49:42am

re: #508 erik_t

That's not a gear-switch for 30% of our society.

Does appear that way from their public pronouncements, doesn't it?

512

Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:49:57am

re: #494 Millicent Islam

Sure is! How you doing, cutie?

Mornin' {ice}. Sure is a grandiose day to be a progressive, ain't it?

513

Interesting Times Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:50:15am

Michele Bachmann: "I'm horrified by the Supreme Court decision. Now children will be forced vaccinated and suffer mental retardation."
— Top Conservative Cat (@TeaPartyCat) June 28, 2012

514

Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:50:53am

re: #512 thedopefishlives

Mornin' {ice}. Sure is a grandiose day to be a progressive, ain't it?

Until Obamacare bans Scottish Eggs as unhealthy! Then you'll rue the day you were suckered in!
// ;)

515

William of Orange Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:51:22am

On the plus side as well:

This will totally eclipse the Fast and Furious controversy.

Funny that this decission was made by 9 people who enjoy a federal health plan.

516

Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:51:24am

re: #514 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Until Obamacare bans Scottish Eggs as unhealthy! Then you'll rue the day you were suckered in!
// ;)

As long as they don't ban Irish bacon. Mmmmmm, BACON. :D

517

SpaceJesus Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:52:23am

To: ctdonath2
Time for a "we mean it" sequel.
Oh, yeah, that'll help. That'll keep us from having to pay for babies brains sucked into a sink, that'll keep death panels from happening, that'll prevent Obamacare from destroying the economy, that'll keep the Mainstream Media from calling us "ni****-haters" (their words not mine).

PROTESTS ARE LIKE KITTENS MEWLING IN A BOX ON THE WAY TO THE INCINERATOR: noise, signifying nothing and changing nothing.

We tried protests. We tried the soapbox. We tried the ballot box.

No avail.

IT IS TIME FOR THE AMMO BOX.
8 posted on Thursday, June 28, 2012 10:17:54 AM by backwoods-engineer (I will vote against ANY presidential candidate who had non-citizen parents.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

lol

518

erik_t Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:53:10am

re: #517 SpaceJesus

I think I just heard the twang of a banjo.

519

SpaceJesus Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:53:35am

i would highly recommend to the wingers not to try the ammobox

520

The Left Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:53:44am

re: #512 thedopefishlives

Mornin' {ice}. Sure is a grandiose day to be a progressive, ain't it?

Hello {fishie}! Love to you, the mrs fish and the wee fish spawn!

521

HappyWarrior Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:53:50am

re: #517 SpaceJesus

lol

Go ahead tough guy, go ahead.

522

blueraven Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:54:09am

Mitt speaking now. Butthurt.

523

Kronocide Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:54:11am

This will decimate our industry. We may need to move into vertical dickishness markets.

Bootstrap Industry Association Manufacturer Lobbyist commenting on the recent SCOTUS AMA decision.

524

Shvaughn Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:55:13am

re: #517 SpaceJesus

Where did you find that charming individual?

525

HappyWarrior Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:55:18am

re: #522 blueraven

Mitt speaking now. Butthurt.

Did he sleep well? Because he was concerned about the White House's sleep patterns last night.

526

Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:55:20am

re: #520 Millicent Islam

Hello {fishie}! Love to you, the mrs fish and the wee fish spawn!

Thank you. Hope things are well on your side of the pond.

527

Gus Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:55:24am

Kaboom! See. I've said many times before to keep an eye on John Roberts.

528

Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:56:20am

re: #527 Gus

Kaboom! See. I've said many times before to keep an eye on John Roberts.

I bet you're having a lot of fun rocking the Twitter this morning, aren't you.

529

Interesting Times Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:56:50am

re: #524 Shvaughn

Where did you find that charming individual?

Praise be to SpaceJesus, who reads freerepublic so you don't have to.

530

Gus Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:57:19am

re: #528 thedopefishlives

I bet you're having a lot of fun rocking the Twitter this morning, aren't you.

Nah. I got up early and had some coffee and have been working. Hadn't had coffee for days because of the heat. Now I'm kind of wired.

531

Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:57:37am

re: #491 SpaceJesus

Aaaand at least 3 libertarian friends of mine on facebook now think we have universal healthcare

My nutjob/pseudo-libertarian acquaintances on Facebook are whining about "taxes" and promising that the American people will repeal all this in November. Given some of the experiences I know some of these people had when younger it's like they've erased their entire lives from before the age of thirty.

532

Gus Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:57:49am

So I imagine we're looking at some major splodey head action today.

533

ShaunP Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:57:49am

Hospital stocks jump after health care ruling

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Stocks of hospital companies rose sharply and insurance companies fell Thursday after the Supreme Court upheld a requirement that almost all Americans carry health insurance.

The stock of Hospital Corp. of America, the largest private hospital chain in the United States, rose a little more than 7 percent. Quest Diagnostics, which runs laboratories, rose almost 3 percent.

Gary Taylor, a financial analyst for Citi Investment Research, wrote in a note to clients that the ruling was "a surprise win for hospital companies," which stand to benefit from tens of millions more people getting health insurance....

534

HappyWarrior Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:58:48am

re: #533 ShaunP

Hospital stocks jump after health care ruling

Marxist hospital companies.

535

jaunte Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:58:55am

Romney: you can choose to have a larger, more intrusive govt....or return to a time where Americans had their own choice in healthcare
— Andy Carvin (@acarvin) June 28, 2012

536

Gus Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:59:09am

re: #533 ShaunP

Hospital stocks jump after health care ruling

I was thinking about a potential for the opposite affect had the SCOTUS rejected it WRT to health insurance stocks.

537

Targetpractice Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:59:27am

re: #535 jaunte

[Embedded content]

So, for the MA, that was before he was governor...

538

Kronocide Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:59:52am

Europeans are gonna be pissed we're catching up to them.

539

Gus Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:00:01am

So are they calling for Robert's head yet? I imagine so.

WINGNUT RAGE! #WAR

Derp.

540

Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:00:24am

re: #539 Gus

So are they calling for Robert's head yet? I imagine so.

WINGNUT RAGE! #WAR

Derp.

The thrill of victory. The agony of de feet.

541

Eventual Carrion Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:00:57am

re: #521 HappyWarrior

Go ahead tough guy, go ahead.

I know, they seem to think they are the only ones with firepower. What a rude awakening it would be if they tried.

542

HappyWarrior Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:01:00am

re: #535 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Yay fake nostalgia from a guy who would have health care regardless of the decision.

543

The Left Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:01:00am

re: #539 Gus

So are they calling for Robert's head yet? I imagine so.

WINGNUT RAGE! #WAR

Derp.

Someone commented already -- bratwurst? -- that it wouldn't be long before Roberts gets death threats. I bet that's right.

544

jaunte Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:01:17am

Romney's got some nerve to claim that HCR cuts Medicare when he supports the Ryan Budget. Also, that's a lie: wapo.st/vXsPgZ

— Krystal Ball (@KrystalBall1) June 28, 2012

545

The Left Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:01:53am

re: #542 HappyWarrior

Yay fake nostalgia from a guy who would have health care regardless of the decision.

Tbogg pointed out earlier that regardless of the SCOTUS ruling, Ann Romney's horse would still have better health care than most americans. And it's tax deductible!

546

HappyWarrior Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:01:58am

re: #544 jaunte

[Embedded content]

No kidding. Mitt's out of his element again.

547

Gus Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:02:11am

re: #543 Millicent Islam

Someone commented already -- bratwurst? -- that it wouldn't be long before Roberts gets death threats. I bet that's right.

Oh yeah. They're FREAKING out. Click on the #WAR link.

548

Kronocide Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:02:27am

Romney leaves podium without taking questions. Rushing off to eat crow with capers and onions... #ACA #SCOTUS

— Charles M. Blow (@CharlesMBlow) June 28, 2012

549

Gus Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:02:59am

re: #548 Kronocide

[Embedded content]

Crow, capers and onions. Tasty.

550

dragonath Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:03:17am

re: #415 William of Orange

Fairly neutral headline for foxnews, though I'm affraid the links will be full of vitriol...

Image: 16gj0ib.gif

I would have loved to see that Murdoch interview as the decsion came down.

"Oh! Feck!"

551

Talking Point Detective Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:03:19am

re: #507 A Mom Anon

Thank God this was upheld. My son is 18 and high functioning autistic. I have no idea on earth how we could have ever afforded medical and dental insurance for him on an individual stand alone policy. So,we'd have had a kid with no insurance if anything went wrong or just taking him for a check up.

I know it's a giveaway to the insurance companies,but without it,my son would be screwed. So I'm really happy about this. Hopefully in a few years we can make a run at real universal care,but for now,this takes a huge stress off our family.

Seriously, reading something like that sends chills up my spine.

Thrilled and relieved, sick patients cheer court ruling

[Link: vitals.msnbc.msn.com...]

552

Gus Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:03:27am

Well, that didn't take long. RT @politico: .@timkmak reports -- Bloggers say impeach John Roberts: politi.co/MCZnH1
— Krystal Ball (@KrystalBall1) June 28, 2012

553

wrenchwench Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:03:38am

I WILL REPLACE OBAMACARE WITH ROMNEYDOESNTCARE
— Mexican Mitt Romney (@MexicanMitt) June 28, 2012

554

Gus Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:03:49am

TEABAGGER FREAK OUT DAY!!

//All caps off.

555

Our Precious Bodily Fluids Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:04:07am

re: #549 Gus

Crow, capers and onions. Tasty.

Also arugula.

556

lawhawk Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:04:22am

The President will be speaking at 12:15PM. No doubt he'll be addressing the decision.

I've been scanning the dissent, and it seems that ruled the individual mandate exceeded the Commerce Clause/Necessary and Proper, and that since Congress didn't identify it as a tax, neither should they, even if the outcome is a functional tax.

Not much of a surprise in either case. And there's plenty of grounds on which to lay the Commerce Clause/Necessary and Proper rationale - and with which the majority concurred.

Both the majority and dissent found that individual mandate exceeded Commerce Clause/Necessary and Proper. Where they diverge is that Roberts found justification under the Congressional power to tax, while the dissent found that since Congress didn't identify this as a tax, and the Administration's justifications of same can't cover up deficiency, they struck down the individual mandate.

Frankly, both sides are fairly well reasoned, even if you don't agree with the dissent. Plain language reading, versus intent. By Congress enacting a provision imposing the mandate under the IRC, that would seem to make it a tax, which is something discounted by the dissent. The dissent focuses on the treatment of the 5000A provision, and references within other parts of the PPACA as a penalty, not a tax.

557

wrenchwench Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:04:26am

re: #548 Kronocide

[Embedded content]

The corvids are having a rough day....

558

The Left Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:05:47am

re: #547 Gus

Oh yeah. They're FREAKING out. Click on the #WAR link.

Matthew Bradley ‏@TheShazaminator
Seriously cannot stop laughing at all the utter toolboxes tweeting #war

Heh.

559

Kronocide Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:05:51am

John Roberts = Activist Judge

560

blueraven Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:06:05am

Via the Atlantic Wire, "Mitt Romney's spokeswoman said the candidate raised $300,000 off the ruling in the first hour after it was handed down."

OK I'm off to make my small contribution to the Obama campaign.
Hopefully this news will also be a money booster for the Pres.

561

Gus Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:06:25am

Huge victory for Obama.

562

Gus Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:06:52am

re: #559 Kronocide

John Roberts = Activist Judge

John Roberts = Communist-Socialist-Crony Capitalist-Derpity-Do!!

563

jaunte Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:07:00am

12 Really Nice Things Conservative Republicans Said About Chief Justice John Roberts

564

lawhawk Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:07:38am

As someone else has pointed out to me, those who currently have health insurance are paying a tax of sorts - they pay higher premiums so as to cover costs imposed on health care providers by those who are indigent or unwilling to pay health care costs. It is possible that the HCR would reduce those costs but I'm not sure that will happen.

There remain parts of the PPACA that do need to be fixed (as the paperwork requirements showed); OTC flex spending should be reformed for instance. But there's a framework of items that do expand health care insurance coverage to a greater percentage of Americans.

565

celticdragon Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:08:28am

re: #551 Talking Point Detective

Seriously, reading something like that sends chills up my spine.

[Link: vitals.msnbc.msn.com...]

My son is also high functioning autistic. This ruling is a Godsend to us.

566

Kronocide Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:08:33am

How many derps does it take to screw in a light bulb?

Communist!

567

William of Orange Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:09:22am

Will John Boenher finally be able to live up to his name now Viagra is covered as well??

568

Mocking Jay Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:09:35am

re: #565 celticdragon

My son is also high functioning autistic. This ruling is a Godsend to us.

Why? Can't pull your own weight?

///

569

Targetpractice Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:09:45am

Rush: "Obamacare is the largest tax increase in the history of the world."

570

Mocking Jay Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:10:22am

re: #569 Targetpractice

Rush: "Obamacare is the largest tax increase in the history of the world."

Dude... don't do this to yourself. Change that dial.

571

Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:10:45am

re: #560 blueraven

Via the Atlantic Wire, "Mitt Romney's spokeswoman said the candidate raised $300,000 off the ruling in the first hour after it was handed down."

OK I'm off to make my small contribution to the Obama campaign.
Hopefully this news will also be a money booster for the Pres.

Gee Mitt, it all always boils down to money, doesn't it? I'm sorry, but it's just a lame statement. Address the court decision, don't make some stupid remark implying that it's generating contributions. And, if anything, it will simply generate countering Obama contributions rather than draw more your way.

572

mr.fusion Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:11:16am

re: #569 Targetpractice

Rush: "Obamacare is the largest tax increase in the history of the world."

I know this will shock you, but that's not even close to true. Let's not let this lie become an accepted "reality" like so much else about this law has become

Politifact

The health care-related tax increases are smaller than the tax increase signed into law by President Ronald Reagan in 1982 and a temporary tax signed into law in 1968 by President Lyndon B. Johnson. And they are significantly smaller than two tax increases passed during World War II and a tax increase passed in 1961.

573

Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:11:31am

re: #569 Targetpractice

Rush: "Obamacare is the largest tax increase in the history of the world."

No, the very first tax ever enacted would be the largest tax increase in the history of the world.

574

Mocking Jay Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:11:37am

From Balloon Juice

From a gentleman waiting to pick up his prescription meds, right after the SCOTUS announcement:
“Obamacare is government-run healthcare! It’s an abomination!”
To which he was asked “so how do you feel about the VA?”
To which he replied “I love it!”

575

erik_t Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:12:47am

re: #548 Kronocide

I dream of Clarence Thomas interviewing a reticent Romney. Has there ever been such a majestic verbal staring contest?

576

efuseakay Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:13:15am

We plan to fire the liberals in our company

577

Kronocide Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:13:16am

If you're happy about today's decision, either you're not one of the people who'll pay for it, or you haven't yet realized that you are.
— Jim Treacher (@jtLOL) June 28, 2012

Provocative Derp sez whut?

578

Obdicut Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:13:21am

re: #569 Targetpractice

The German government in 1938 taxed Jewish property-- not income, but property-- at 25%. They taxed an extra 25% if you left Germany.

I'd say that was a bigger tax.

579

The Ghost of a Flea Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:13:28am

re: #560 blueraven

Via the Atlantic Wire, "Mitt Romney's spokeswoman said the candidate raised $300,000 off the ruling in the first hour after it was handed down."

OK I'm off to make my small contribution to the Obama campaign.
Hopefully this news will also be a money booster for the Pres.

Not mentioned: from who. Because I'll put down money that chunk wasn't a matter of a bunch of small transactions.

580

William of Orange Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:14:00am

re: #569 Targetpractice

Rush: "Obamacare is the largest tax increase in the history of the world."

Rush will go into tantrum once the tax on cholestorol is pushed through.

581

abolitionist Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:14:32am

Whitehouse link for the 12:15 ET address on health care.

582

Talking Point Detective Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:14:36am

re: #569 Targetpractice

Rush: "Obamacare is the largest tax increase in the history of the world."

Yup.

Started seeing that on various blogs right about the same time.

They've decided that's their strategy, and that's what they're going to run with.

583

Targetpractice Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:14:40am

Rush: "The health insurance companies are the ones who collect the tax!"

584

The Ghost of a Flea Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:15:33am

re: #573 thedopefishlives

No, the very first tax ever enacted would be the largest tax increase in the history of the world.

You kill mammoth, you give one leg to Thog; Thog give to rest of tribe.

Also, you want spear, you wait until sun rises five times.

585

Obdicut Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:15:43am

Obama speaking now

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

586

Mocking Jay Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:15:49am

re: #580 William of Orange

Rush will go into ~~tantrum~~ poverty once the tax on cholestorol is pushed through.

587

Kronocide Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:15:52am

re: #578 Obdicut

The German government in 1938 taxed Jewish property-- not income, but property-- at 25%. They taxed an extra 25% if you left Germany.

I'd say that was a bigger tax.

Not meant to be a factual statement. Sorry, forgot GIANT FUCKING ASTERISK* after the FREAK OUT FONT.

588

Mocking Jay Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:16:29am

re: #585 Obdicut

Obama speaking now

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

Holy crap. He's on time?

589

ReamWorks SKG Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:16:37am

Romney was so sure this was going to be defeated; he was saying yesterday that "The President wasted the last 3.5 years pushing an illegal law". (I'm paraphrasing.)

[Link: firstread.msnbc.msn.com...]

I'm pretty sure this will hurt Romney. He should have hedged his stand a bit.

And, when push comes to shove, will people want to vote for Romney who promises to take away their ability to buy health insurance regardless of pre-existing conditions?

590

Gus Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:16:59am

Romney's such a dick. The man established the individual mandate in the state of Massachusetts. Severe case of cognitive dissidence with his supporters. They need to get help. I wonder if psycho-therapy is covered under the ACA.

591

Obdicut Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:18:11am

Obama's speech is clear as a bell on this. He's not grandstanding, he's telling people what they get from the bill.

592

Mocking Jay Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:18:45am

re: #590 Gus

Romney's such a dick. The man established the individual mandate in the state of Massachusetts. Severe case of cognitive dissidence with his supporters. They need to get help. I wonder if psycho-therapy is covered under the ACA.

HONK HONK!

593

ReamWorks SKG Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:18:49am

re: #590 Gus

Exactly. I'm fairly conservative, but I will gladly vote for Obama over Romney. It will be my pleasure.

594

Targetpractice Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:19:33am

Rush is losing his fucking mind. He's stopping just short of screaming for revolution right 'bout now.

595

dragonath Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:20:03am

SCOTUSblog:

Amy Howe: By the way, the opinions collectively are a monster. The Chief’s opinion is 59 pages, Justice Ginsburg’s opinion is 61 pages, the four dissenters are 65 pages, followed by a short two-pager from Justice Thomas. You do the math.

lol

596

Gus Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:20:33am

re: #594 Targetpractice

Rush is losing his fucking mind. He's stopping just short of screaming for revolution right 'bout now.

I think Rush should let his freak flag fly. We should encourage him to have a break down. Go for it Rush! Freak out man!

597

Kronocide Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:20:37am

Obama lies; freedom dies.

Teabag Spice

598

ReamWorks SKG Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:20:56am

re: #595 Be Zorch, Daddio

Yes! I've barely read 10 pages! Hang on!

599

Velvet Elvis Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:21:25am

Rand Paul: Supreme Court isn't Boss of what's Constitutional

For a guy who professes to love the constitution, he really does hate the constitution.

600

The Ghost of a Flea Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:22:13am

re: #597 Kronocide

Teabag Spice

That's more concise than Hypocrite Grifter Nutbag Spice.

601

ReamWorks SKG Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:22:30am

re: #594 Targetpractice

Rush LOVES this. More material for him. Nothing would be better for Rush's business than to have Obama re-elected.

(BTW: I listen to Rush nearly every day, so this isn't just a theoretical comment from a Rush-hater.)

602

Gus Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:22:53am

John Roberts, 17th Chief Justice of the United States. Appointed by President George W. Bush (R). Republican, conservative and Roman Catholic.

Checkmate wingnuts!

603

brennant Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:23:12am

I hear Romney's bus is outside the White House. Honking furiously.

604

Kronocide Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:23:29am

Doh! LOL

605

Mocking Jay Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:23:37am

Republican Congressman Suggests ‘Impeachment’ For Justice Kagan Over Obamacare Ruling

WASHINGTON, D.C. — A leading Republican congressmen in the fight to repeal Obamacare said today’s Supreme Court ruling is “illegitimate” and has called for one of the Supreme Court Justices to be impeached.
ThinkProgress spoke with Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-TX) outside the Court immediately following the decision today affirming the constitutionality of Obamacare. Gohmert, apoplectic over the ruling, directed his anger towards Justice Elena Kagan, who he claims likely “violated federal law” by voting on the Obamacare decision after serving as Solicitor General when the law was passed. “She needs to be removed from the Supreme Court,” he cried, calling for her impeachment. As such, Gohmert said today’s decision upholding Obamacare is “illegitimate.”

Gimme moar tears.

606

erik_t Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:24:14am

re: #605 It's a cookbook!

Republican Congressman Suggests ‘Impeachment’ For Justice Kagan Over Obamacare Ruling

Gimme moar tears.

How did I know it was Gohmert before I even started reading the quote?

607

ReamWorks SKG Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:24:21am

re: #605 It's a cookbook!

HA HA HA! That's one of the funniest, wackiest, things I've ever heard.

608

brennant Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:24:27am

And the tax discussion starts...

609

Gus Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:24:34am

re: #605 It's a cookbook!

Republican Congressman Suggests ‘Impeachment’ For Justice Kagan Over Obamacare Ruling

Gimme moar tears.

Gohmert Pyle. What a maroon.

610

William of Orange Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:24:50am

Obama, as always eloquent. Kudos that he did it in spite of the danger of political suicide.

We've almost survived Arizona.
We survived affordable health care.

One more bone to pick with the GOP and that's voter suppression. Once that passes the GOP will roll over like a puppy!

611

Daniel Ballard Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:25:08am

I can't wait for Romney to campaign on this-"I'm gonna repeal your healthcare. Vote for ME!"

612

celticdragon Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:25:33am

re: #576 efuseakay

We plan to fire the liberals in our company

You will not be the only one.

We knew a business owner in the EBay who walked through his parking lot and wrote down the license plates of the idiots with Obozo/Lyden stickers on their cars.

Shortly after Obozo was installed as el supremo, those people got pink slips.

He did the same thing with those with Moonbeam stickers on their cars.

They really have no shame or empathy. This is getting into borderline sociopathy.

613

Targetpractice Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:25:49am

And now Rush is trying to name the "positives" of decision, namely the belief that this will now hurt Obama because he'll have to defend the "tax" he just "imposed."

614

The Ghost of a Flea Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:26:16am

re: #606 erik_t

How did I know it was Gohmert before I even started reading the quote?

The little discussed perceptual organ in your brain that can detect minute even minute traces of stupid.

615

Gus Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:26:17am

re: #611 Daniel Ballard

I can't wait for Romney to campaign on this-I'm gonna repeal your healthcare. Vote for ME!

"I'm going to repeal the individual mandate I supported while governor of Massachusetts. Now. Where are those home baked cookies."

616

erik_t Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:26:20am

re: #612 celticdragon

They really have no shame or empathy. This is getting into borderline sociopathy.

I bet he also benches 550 and collected three Medals of Honor.

Pull the other one, Internet Tough-Guy.

617

jaunte Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:26:44am

Todd Starnes, Fox News & Commentary:
"We are now living in the Occupied United States of America."

618

efuseakay Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:26:44am

re: #612 celticdragon

They really have no shame or empathy. This is getting into borderline sociopathy.

I'm saving that link... contemplating sending it to the Feds... it's illegal, ya know...

619

William of Orange Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:27:15am

re: #611 Daniel Ballard

I can't wait for Romney to campaign on this-"I'm gonna repeal my healthcare. Vote for ME!"

620

SmithCommaJohn Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:27:22am

I'm sad I'll never get the chance to experience Herman "Caincare". I bet there'd have been free penicillin shots and sexy pizza parties.
— Jenny Johnson (@JennyJohnsonHi5) June 28, 2012

God, I love Jenny Johnson.

621

Mocking Jay Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:27:44am

This is what peak wingnut looks like.

622

ShaunP Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:27:49am

re: #591 Obdicut

Obama's speech is clear as a bell on this. He's not grandstanding, he's telling people what they get from the bill.

Yeah, well... Is he using a teleprompter?

623

Targetpractice Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:28:28am

And now Rush, playing soundbites from Romney's speech today, which no doubt leaves a sour taste in his mouth.

624

jaunte Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:28:58am

Todd Starnes:

IT’S TIME TO SUPPORT CANDIDATES WHO PROMISE TO REPEAL OBAMACARE

AND IT’S TIME TO REMOVE REPUBLICANS IN NAME ONLY

WHO APPOINT CLOSET LIBERALS* TO THE HIGH COURT.

*John Roberts

625

ReamWorks SKG Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:29:10am

"Vote For Me and I'll take away your Healtcare" will work as well politically as Walter Mondale's promise to raise taxes!

626

celticdragon Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:30:11am

re: #618 efuseakay

I'm saving that link... contemplating sending it to the Feds... it's illegal, ya know...

Who do we send it to? They are talking about serious breaches of Federal employment law, including falsification of forms and civil rights violations.

627

lawhawk Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:30:32am

The President notes that it wasn't popular; it wasn't politically advisable; but he stuck with it anyway, even after changing his views to come and support the position (that the GOP had been supporting for years and years until Obama did so - out of political expediency btw).

Now, it's been upheld, but there are things that need to be improved. There's more work to be done.

Check. Check. and Check.

The GOP will continue to run against the PPACA, thinking it's a winning issue even as the President and Democrats should highlight what the law will do to expand access to insurance. Because trying to repeal PPACA would have serious consequences as well - like eliminating access to insurance for millions.

628

Gus Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:30:51am

re: #624 jaunte

Todd Starnes:

*John Roberts

Bush's fault!

Oh the sweet, sweet irony.

629

ReamWorks SKG Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:31:02am

It's interesting that the court had an easier time on the "Military Medal" law. And conservatives are wacked out over this, too. I can't imagine how people don't see the danger of outlawing lies, other than ones told under oath, no matter how foolish the lie is.

630

The Left Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:31:13am

re: #621 It's a cookbook!

This is what peak wingnut looks like.

I LOL'd, literally.

Peak wingnut was a lie!

631

sagehen Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:32:02am

re: #625 ReamWorks SKG

"Vote For Me and I'll take away your Healtcare" will work as well politically as Walter Mondale's promise to raise taxes!

Republicans are certainly earning all kinds of Hispanic support with "Vote for me and I'll deport your mother."

632

The Left Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:32:18am

re: #624 jaunte

Todd Starnes:

*John Roberts

I blame Bush! :D

633

HappyWarrior Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:32:36am

re: #630 Millicent Islam

I LOL'd, literally.

Peak wingnut was a lie!

No peak wingnut will be when Obama gives his second inaugural address.

634

HappyWarrior Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:32:58am

The Republicans: Nein, Nein, Nein.

635

efuseakay Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:33:02am

re: #626 celticdragon

Who do we send it to? They are talking about serious breaches of Federal employment law, including falsification of forms and civil rights violations.

Gotta do some investigating... maybe someone else could chime in... but maybe I'll start with the Department of Labor.

636

Gus Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:33:21am

Bush's fault.

637

iossarian Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:33:22am

re: #630 Millicent Islam

I LOL'd, literally.

Peak wingnut was a lie!

Wingnut is a monotonically increasing series with no upper bound.

There is no such thing as "peak wingnut".

638

Gus Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:33:29am

Checkmate.

639

Talking Point Detective Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:33:43am

So - the politics are taking an interesting shape.

Republicans are going to run with the tax and spend meme. Will that help to generate more opposition to the law and work in Romney's favor?

640

ReamWorks SKG Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:34:19am

Ok! I need to get to work so I can pay the new taxes for healthcare!

Have a wonderful day, everyone.

641

The Left Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:34:32am

re: #637 iossarian

Wingnut is a monotonically increasing series with no upper bound.

There is no such thing as "peak wingnut".

Exactly! Though it's true that there will be a new peak during Obama's second inaugural address.

642

HappyWarrior Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:34:45am

re: #605 It's a cookbook!

Republican Congressman Suggests ‘Impeachment’ For Justice Kagan Over Obamacare Ruling

Gimme moar tears.

Funny how Kagan being SG wasn't an issue when they thought they had locked up. Go cry somewhere else Louie and not DC.

643

Someone Please Beam Me Up! Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:35:50am

re: #605 It's a cookbook!

Republican Congressman Suggests ‘Impeachment’ For Justice Kagan Over Obamacare Ruling

Gimme moar tears.

With a 4-4 vote, ACA would have been upheld anyway, right?

644

aagcobb Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:35:51am

re: #624 jaunte

Todd Starnes:

*John Roberts

Roberts is no liberal. He just came to the obvious conclusion that this is a tax, and Congress has the power to lower your taxes if you do certain things, like take out a mortgage or buy health insurance. He is playing a longer game, in that he joined the conservatives in limiting Congress' power under the Commerce Clause.

645

Bulworth Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:35:53am

re: #642 HappyWarrior

Funny how Kagan being SG wasn't an issue when they thought they had locked up. Go cry somewhere else Louie and not DC.

Sure Looey, will get right on that. You betcha.

646

Talking Point Detective Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:36:16am

re: #617 jaunte

Todd Starnes, Fox News & Commentary:
"We are now living in the Occupied United States of America."

That will be losing rhetoric. My hope is that rhetoric takes precedent over the Obama's tax rhetoric - which I think will be more effective.

647

William of Orange Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:36:41am

DJ Whitehouse here, this calls for some gooood music!!!

Youtube Video

648

Targetpractice Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:36:45am

Now Rush is predicting more poor people will be uninsured because the states will simply refuse to expand Medicaid.

649

Talking Point Detective Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:38:02am

I'm wondering of this was a Rope-a-dope by Roberts.

650

HappyWarrior Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:38:06am

re: #643 Washed-Up-Clowns 'R' Us!

With a 4-4 vote, ACA would have been upheld anyway, right?

Yes, this is what happened in AZ. I believe Sotomayor excused herself in that one. Gohmert is just angry because his side lost. As said, no one on the right was suggesting Justice Kagan recuse her self when they thought they had it won.

651

HappyWarrior Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:38:27am

re: #648 Targetpractice

Now Rush is predicting more poor people will be uninsured because the states will simply refuse to expand Medicaid.

Like Rush cares about any one other than himself.

652

dragonath Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:38:54am

I'd love it it the wingnuts rage on looking for someone to blame for all this and realize Romney started it all in Massachusetts.

Heheheheheh

Oh- another thing. This makes Roberts better than the man he replaced as Cheif Justice. Rehnquist would have been too political to have allowed something like this to happen

653

Gus Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:39:03am

Bozo alert.

People Who Say They're Moving To Canada Because Of ObamaCare

654

Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:39:04am

DeMint is calling for Nullification ROFLMAO

655

Daniel Ballard Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:39:12am

Gotta share-Last few weeks have been tougher than usual. So-I have so many good reasons to celebrate today. Healthcare ensures far less stress at home, our 28th anniversary is Saturday, and we are off on a weeks vacation together.

Oh and Saturday before we leave I have my very first job as a still photographer to work on a feature film set, "100 days of death" a zombie thriller. I'll be shooting some video too, interviews with the actors and crew for the electronic press kit that will promote the movie.

Life is good, these are the golden days.

656

Targetpractice Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:39:34am

re: #651 HappyWarrior

Like Rush cares about any one other than himself.

He doesn't, but now he's laying the groundwork for future accusations against Obama that any cut funding to the states is him "punishing" states for not expanding Medicaid, such as cutting funding for fire-fighting aircraft.

657

HappyWarrior Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:39:44am

re: #654 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

DeMint is calling for Nullification ROFLMAO

Okay Calhoun Junior take a step off the ledge and calm down.

658

iossarian Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:40:03am

re: #653 Gus

Bozo alert.

People Who Say They're Moving To Canada Because Of ObamaCare

BWAHAHA

"I refuse to live in a country that does not yet have a fully-implemented single-payer solution to the healthcare question."

659

William of Orange Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:40:33am

Image: 2iqfjpj.gif

Hahahaa!!!!! Never see their own fail!!!

660

HappyWarrior Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:40:38am

re: #658 iossarian

BWAHAHA

"I refuse to live in a country that does not yet have a fully-implemented single-payer solution to the healthcare question."

There's always Somalia.

661

Sheila Broflovski Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:40:49am

Why doesn't Rush just STFU and retire to Costa Rica?

662

HappyWarrior Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:41:00am

The convention is going to be really interesting now.

663

Gus Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:41:16am

re: #658 iossarian

BWAHAHA

"I refuse to live in a country that does not yet have a fully-implemented single-payer solution to the healthcare question."

Yeah. Got me thinking about Firedoglake this morning.

664

aagcobb Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:41:17am

re: #654 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

DeMint is calling for Nullification ROFLMAO

DeMint supported the individual mandate before it became part of Obamacare.

665

The Left Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:41:39am

re: #655 Daniel Ballard

Gotta share-Last few weeks have been tougher than usual. So-I have so many good reasons to celebrate today. Healthcare ensures far less stress at home, our 28th anniversary is Saturday, and we are off on a weeks vacation together.

Oh and Saturday before we leave I have my very first job as a still photographer to work on a feature film set, "100 days of death" a zombie thriller. I'll be shooting some video too, interviews with the actors and crew for the electronic press kit that will promote the movie.

Life is good, these are the golden days.

Congrats on your anniversary and your photo job! Hope you guys have a great vacation.

666

Gus Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:41:43am

re: #661 Learned Mother of Zion

Why doesn't Rush just STFU and retire to Costa Rica?

He should move to Ecuador so he can be neighbors with Julian Assange.

667

The Ghost of a Flea Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:41:48am

re: #605 It's a cookbook!

Republican Congressman Suggests ‘Impeachment’ For Justice Kagan Over Obamacare Ruling

Gimme moar tears.

You know, on one hand I want to laugh...

but on the other this continuing theme of "the government is only legitimate is it does what I say" is getting spooky. We have a leading political party whose membership feel that the social contract of the USA, as laid down in the Constitution, can--and should--be set aside so that they can achieve their desired outcomes.

All of this procedural nonsense and filibuster abuse...and now the attempt to illegitimate the Supreme Court...it's a bad trend. This is what the do when they hold the minority opinion--what would they be like unchecked?

I feel the same "funny, but not funny" way about the armchair commandos. I am deeply afraid that someone will follow through with the crap that's said, and people will be hurt.

668

Targetpractice Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:41:58am

Now Rush is trying to boost the morale, trying the ol' "Yeah, we've had dark days, but I'll lead you through it!"

669

HappyWarrior Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:42:17am

re: #664 aagcobb

DeMint supported the individual mandate before it became part of Obamacare.

Explains why he likes Romney so much then.

670

Mocking Jay Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:42:19am

[Link: dailydish.typepad.com...]

671

Daniel Ballard Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:42:52am

re: #665 Millicent Islam

Thanks so much! How are you and Jimmah these days?

672

makeitstop Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:43:05am

I'd love to stay and enjoy this some more, but I've got an early gig in NYC.

Have a great day, everyone. Think I'll listen to wingnut radio on my drive, should be entertaining....

673

The Left Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:44:14am

re: #671 Daniel Ballard

Thanks so much! How are you and Jimmah these days?

We're great! Send our love to DL. :)

674

Targetpractice Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:44:30am

Rush's general theme: "We're actually the winners either way, because now it's a tax and we can run against those!"

675

wrenchwench Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:45:21am

re: #674 Targetpractice

Rush's general theme: "We're actually the winners either way, because now it's a tax and we can run against those!"

Rush is a winner either way because stirring up wingnuts is job security for him.

676

jaunte Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:45:54am

Hospital Stocks Rise After Health-Care Law is Upheld

677

GunstarGreen Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:46:41am

The Republican Party: We love the Constitution™, now what's all this crap about a constitution?

Editor's note: The Constitution™ is a document that specifically points out that the provisions set forth about the Supreme Court only apply so long as the Supreme Court maintains agreement with Republican politics; any other use of the Supreme Court is illegitimate, illegal, and probably communist.

678

HappyWarrior Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:47:30am

re: #675 wrenchwench

Rush is a winner either way because stirring up wingnuts is job security for him.

Indeed, Rush is going to be psyched when Obama wins. More suckers means more dough for Rush.

679

jaunte Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:48:19am

10 Things You Get Now That Obamacare Survived

680

CuriousLurker Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:48:27am

Josh Marshall, editor of TPM:

It Matters

...we may learn that President Obama sacrificed his presidency to push through this piece of legislation — the Dems already lost Congress over it. But presidencies are for doing important things not just for getting elected to second terms in office. And I strongly suspect that even if Mitt Romney wins and gets a Republican Congress, they still won’t be able to get rid of this law.

That counts. That matters.

681

celticdragon Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:48:53am

More idiocy. These people are making horrorendous decisions based on fear and lies that have nothing to do with what the ACA actually does.

Be careful not to say you are firing him because he is a liberal. Stick to the reason we are using—we cannot afford to keep as many people on payroll with the tax situation what it is. We will fire seven of 24 people tomorrow morning.

(All seven are Obama butt kissers, but that is NOT why we are firing them.) We will tell them it is because the cost of labor just went up and we cannot afford to keep more than seventeen people on the payroll. We will tell the seven individuals that this is not a temporary layoff and they should seek other employment since we do not see how we can hire anyone back for at least another three years.

We will then hold a meeting with the remaining seventeen still on the payroll that the cost of labor went up necessitating the cuts and that we are looking at dropping our employer health care insurance since we expect our premiums to rise 40% next year and our choices will be (1) to drop health insurace, (2) to trim some more staff, or (3) to close up shop.

They are firing people for the sheer hell of it and then saying "Look what you made me do!"

682

Gus Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:49:15am

LOL

Courts & The Constitution - Mitt Romney

As president, Mitt will nominate judges in the mold of Chief Justice Roberts and Justices Scalia, Thomas, and Alito. These justices hold dear what the great Chief Justice John Marshall called “the basis on which the whole American fabric has been erected”: a written Constitution, with real and determinate meaning. The judges that Mitt nominates will exhibit a genuine appreciation for the text, structure, and history of our Constitution and interpret the Constitution and the laws as they are written. And his nominees will possess a demonstrated record of adherence to these core principles.

Watch that go down the memory hole.

683

Mattand Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:49:30am

re: #576 efuseakay

re: #612 celticdragon

They really have no shame or empathy. This is getting into borderline sociopathy.

Went over and read some of the comments. What's illuminating is this plan to fire liberals who work for them hurts the economy. Forget whether the "liberal" does a good job or not.

It's basically a mirror image of what the GOP has been doing for the last 3 years: we don't like the President, and we'll sabotage the country if we don't get our way.

It's the economic version of a suicide bomber. If we can get through the next 4 years without any ~~politically~~ conservative-motivated murder, I'll be shocked.

684

Daniel Ballard Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:50:20am

re: #680 CuriousLurker

Question-When you use Tweedeck to make a new tweet, does "paste" work for you? I can't seem to get that to work, I have to make the tweet in mu twitter dot com site, rather than Tweetdeck.

685

The Ghost of a Flea Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:51:18am

Conservatives turn on Roberts

The pile-on begins. Roberts has lost the trust of his putative tribe.

686

CuriousLurker Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:51:34am

re: #684 Daniel Ballard

Question-When you use Tweedeck to make a new tweet, does "paste" work for you? I can't seem to get that to work, I have to make the tweet in mu twitter dot com site, rather than Tweetdeck.

Hmm, yep, paste works fine for me.

687

Shvaughn Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:52:55am

Some liberal group should give a big sweet sloppy kiss to Roberts, just to provoke the wingnuts into overreacting even more.

688

HappyWarrior Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:54:37am

Now Justice Roberts know how Justice Burger felt when he was hated on for not totally ruining the Warren Court's legacy.

689

Daniel Ballard Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:57:50am

re: #686 CuriousLurker

Thx, re-install I think.

690

HappyWarrior Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:58:26am

re: #683 Mattand

re: #612 celticdragon

Went over and read some of the comments. What's illuminating is this plan to fire liberals who work for them hurts the economy. Forget whether the "liberal" does a good job or not.

It's basically a mirror image of what the GOP has been doing for the last 3 years: we don't like the President, and we'll sabotage the country if we don't get our way.

It's the economic version of a suicide bomber. If we can get through the next 4 years without any ~~politically~~ motivated murder, I'll be shocked.

It's stupid but hey if they want to fuck over their own businesses because they have a hatred for liberals that guides all their decision, be my guest, just don't blame me when your business goes bankrupt because you cared more about hating liberals than keeping your business afloat.

691

efuseakay Thu, Jun 28, 2012 10:00:22am

re: #612 celticdragon

They really have no shame or empathy. This is getting into borderline sociopathy.

Borderline? They are the very definition of!

692

jaunte Thu, Jun 28, 2012 10:00:57am

Crazytown

[Link: twitter.com...]

693

Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Thu, Jun 28, 2012 10:03:55am

re: #692 jaunte

Wow, that is just filled of teh lulz.

694

Velvet Elvis Thu, Jun 28, 2012 10:04:42am

The local newspaper comments are full of people saying they will pay the fine and remain uninsured rather than lose their freedom to obamacare.

Evolution in action. Have some deep fried butter.

695

Eventual Carrion Thu, Jun 28, 2012 10:10:00am

re: #605 It's a cookbook!

Republican Congressman Suggests ‘Impeachment’ For Justice Kagan Over Obamacare Ruling

Gimme moar tears.

To which Justice Kagan replied, "Fuck them.".

// not really, but it would have been funny,

696

William of Orange Thu, Jun 28, 2012 10:13:52am

From the New York Times:

“This could be a huge day in the evolution of Chief Justice Roberts as a great chief justice,” Laurence H. Tribe, the liberal Harvard law professor, said. Mr. Tribe, who taught Mr. Roberts, said he had not opposed his nomination because he believed Mr. Roberts was less of an ideologue than many charged. “I have some sense of gratification,” he said.

697

William Barnett-Lewis Thu, Jun 28, 2012 10:14:38am

re: #655 Daniel Ballard

Life is good, these are the golden days.

Looking at our post foreclosure move situation, I can dig it. I've tended to consider any day not spent pushing daisies as pretty damn good, it can get better...

If I walk out my door, I'm a 15 minute drive from a trail head in the Chequamegon unit of the Chequamegon-Nicolet National Forest. This is elk country, again, and white tail too. Black bear & wolves roam up here which gets some of the idiots whining, but it's good, it's all good.

My wife is calmer and happier than she's been in a very long time. She's always had a streak of earth mother in her and she's happy to let her hair down and her freak flag fly

Me? Well, I found the free public range about 20 minutes the other way and I've got my press set up in the basement. Hunting seasons will come soon enough.

I may only be renting this place, but I'm more "at home" than I was the last couple of years in Madison. No sirens 5 to 8 times a night. No highway traffic noise from major avenues. We're not under the landing pattern for a busy airport that also has an Air Force National Guard base - no more F16's on full afterburner or C-5A's rattling dishes out of the cupbord like an earthquake (No views of Air Force One landing either but that's an ok trade-off). Nor are kids getting shot at two blocks, much less two houses, away.

And now my son's health care is in much better shape thanks to the SCOTUS.

Life is very good, indeed.

698

Coracle Thu, Jun 28, 2012 10:16:35am

re: #696 William of Orange