House Republicans Hold Eric Holder in Contempt, Democrats Walk Out

Partisan fake outrage
Politics • Views: 42,404

To nobody’s surprise, the Republican Party has held Attorney General Eric Holder in contempt of Congress. A large number of House Democrats walked out before the vote in protest.

UPDATE at 6/28/12 1:58:06 pm

Rep. Emanuel Cleaver (D-Missouri), leader of the Congressional Black Caucus, gave a statement about the walk-out:

One of the things we are attempting to do is to make sure that at least a group of members of Congress express to the nation that we are non-participants in what we believe to be a calamity.

This is a terrible day for the House of Representatives. What this is about, we can’t decide for sure, but it certainly is not about Eric Holder or holding back documents. And so we did not want to participate in something that we believe has some kind of smell to it.

UPDATE at 6/28/12 2:06:40 pm

Eric Holder released the following statement:

In recent months, the Justice Department has made unprecedented accommodations to respond to information requests by Chairman Issa about misguided law enforcement tactics that began in the previous administration and allowed illegal guns to be taken into Mexico.  Department professionals have spent countless hours compiling and providing thousands of documents — nearly 8,000 — to Chairman Issa and his committee.   My staff has had numerous meetings with congressional staff to try and accommodate these requests and yesterday, I met with Chairman Issa to offer additional internal Department documents and information that would satisfy what he identified as the Committee’s single outstanding question.

Unfortunately, Chairman Issa has rejected all of these efforts to reach a reasonable accommodation.  Instead, he has chosen to use his authority to take an extraordinary, unprecedented and entirely unnecessary action, intended to provoke an avoidable conflict between Congress and the Executive Branch.  This divisive action does not help us fix the problems that led to this operation or previous ones and it does nothing to make any of our law enforcement agents safer.  It’s an election-year tactic intended to distract attention — and, as a result — has deflected critical resources from fulfilling what remains my top priority at the Department of Justice:  Protecting the American people.  

Simply put, any claims that the Justice Department has been unresponsive to requests for information are untrue.  From the beginning, Chairman Issa and certain members of the Committee have made unsubstantiated allegations first, then scrambled for facts to try to justify them later. That might make for good political theater, but it does little to uncover the truth or address the problems associated with this operation and prior ones dating back to the previous Administration.  

I have spent most of my career in law enforcement and worked closely with brave agents who put their lives on the line every day.  I know the sacrifices they make, so as soon as allegations of gunwalking came to my attention – and well before Chairman Issa expressed any interest in this issue — I ordered the practice stopped.  I made necessary personnel changes in the Department’s leadership and instituted policy changes to ensure better oversight of significant investigations.  And, I directed the Department’s Inspector General to open a comprehensive investigation.  That investigation is ongoing, and the American people and Congress can count on it to produce a tough, independent review of the facts.

When Chairman Issa later began his own investigation, I made it clear that the Department would cooperate with all appropriate oversight requests, while still adhering to our legal obligations to protect information involving ongoing law enforcement investigations, legally-protected grand jury material and other sensitive information whose disclosure would endanger the American people or our agents investigating open cases.   

The American people deserve better.  That is why, I will remain focused on, and committed to, the Justice Department’s mission to protect the rights, safety, and best interests of my fellow citizens and to stand by my brave colleagues in law enforcement.

UPDATE at 6/28/12 2:13:49 pm

The White House has also released a statement:

At the beginning of this year, Republicans announced one of their top priorities was to investigate the Administration and to ensure that President Obama was a one-term President. Despite the major economic challenges facing the country, they talked openly about devoting taxpayer-funded, Congressional oversight resources to political purposes.

The problem of gunwalking was a field-driven tactic that dated back to the George W. Bush Administration, and it was this Administration’s Attorney General who ended it. Attorney General Holder has said repeatedly that fighting criminal activity along the Southwest Border – including the illegal trafficking of guns to Mexico has been is a top priority of the Department. Eric Holder has been an excellent Attorney General and just yesterday the Chairman of the House Oversight Committee acknowledged that he had no evidence – or even the suspicion – that the Attorney General knew of the misguided tactics used in this operation.

Yet, Republicans pushed for political theater rather than legitimate Congressional oversight. Over the past fourteen months, the Justice Department accommodated Congressional investigators, producing 7,600 pages of documents, and testifying at eleven Congressional hearings. In an act of good faith, this week the Administration made an additional offer which would have resulted in the Committee getting unprecedented access to documents dispelling any notion of an intent to mislead. But unfortunately, a politically-motivated agenda prevailed and instead of engaging with the President in efforts to create jobs and grow the economy, today we saw the House of Representatives perform a transparently political stunt.

Jump to bottom

243 comments
1 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 1:39:31pm

OMG, THE DRAMA.

I am so tired of politicians.

2 erik_t  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 1:39:46pm

Nice contrast in priorities. Not the brightest week to schedule this one, Cantor.

3 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 1:40:07pm

Which 7 Democrats voted Yah?

4 blueraven  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 1:41:02pm

re: #3 ggt

Which 7 Democrats voted Yah?

17 now

5 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 1:41:11pm

And a quick trip through the Wayback Machine, before the GOP starts whining about this being "unprecedented":

6 blueraven  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 1:41:43pm

re: #3 ggt

Which 7 Democrats voted Yah?

The ones in red leaning districts who the NRA threatened

7 engineer cat  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 1:41:52pm

Is Armed Rebellion

oh, how we mourn for the poor oppressed masses in communist canada!

8 Mattand  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 1:42:07pm

re: #2 erik_t

Nice contrast in priorities. Not the brightest week to schedule this one, Cantor.

Rachel Maddow covered this last night. Her theory is that Boehner scheduled it precisely for that reason. He and supposedly Cantor know deep down that this is all bullshit and are trying to distance themselves from it.

9 Shvaughn  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 1:42:40pm

re: #3 ggt

Which 7 Democrats voted Yah?

The stupidest ones.

10 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 1:42:54pm

What does this mean for Holder? (in reality--not congress reality TV)

11 Bulworth  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 1:43:28pm

re: #9 Shvaughn

The stupidest ones.

The cowardly ones.

12 Peter Kaufman  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 1:44:01pm

A n*gger with a badge. What this is about, has always been about.

13 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 1:44:30pm

Rep. Emmanuel Cleaver just said that Democrats walked out because this proceeding "has a certain smell to it."

14 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 1:45:34pm

re: #10 ggt

What does this mean for Holder? (in reality--not congress reality TV)

Little. This will be fought out in the courts, but if nothing comes of it before the end of this Congress, then it all gets thrown out.

15 Shvaughn  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 1:46:59pm

Which right-wing blogs are having the best meltdowns over this? I've got my popcorn.

16 leftynyc  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 1:47:04pm

re: #8 Mattand

Rachel Maddow covered this last night. Her theory is that Boehner scheduled it precisely for that reason. He and supposedly Cantor know deep down that this is all bullshit and are trying to distance themselves from it.

I think they were expecting a 1-2 punch for Obama - first ACA getting gutted and then this. For the first time in a while, I will be watching cable news tonight.

17 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 1:47:18pm

re: #10 ggt

What does this mean for Holder? (in reality--not congress reality TV)

Nothing.
House panel cites Eric Holder for contempt. Will he go to jail?

There's a jail in the US Capitol, but it's not likely to hold Attorney General Holder anytime soon. The executive branch has many options to delay criminal proceedings, which require the Department of Justice to initiate

18 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 1:48:22pm

The exact quote, slightly edited:

19 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 1:49:45pm

re: #5 Targetpractice

And a quick trip through the Wayback Machine, before the GOP starts whining about this being "unprecedented":

[Embedded content]

For those who either can't or don't want to check the video, it's from '08, when then minority leader Boehner organized a walk-out of Republicans over a vote to hold Harriet Mier and John Bolton in contempt.

But watch Ol' Orange to get up to the podium after this vote and, after declaring that it's a "bipartisan" vote, condemn Democrats who staged a walk-out.

20 engineer cat  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 1:51:58pm

re: #16 leftynyc

I think they were expecting a 1-2 punch for Obama - first ACA getting gutted and then this. For the first time in a while, I will be watching cable news tonight.

as it is, they have arranged for the news of the contempt vote to be thoroughly stepped on by the court decision

they get an F in political showmanship

21 danarchy  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 1:54:46pm

re: #20 engineer cat

as it is, they have arranged for the news of the contempt vote to be thoroughly stepped on by the court decision

they get an F in political showmanship

I think when they scheduled this vote last week everyone still thought the SJC was going to be ruling on ACA by this past monday.

22 Someone Please Beam Me Up!  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 1:57:23pm

It's a great day for this Congress. Finally, they've found someone whose opinion of them rises to the level of contempt.

23 wrenchwench  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 1:57:27pm

re: #12 Peter Kaufman

A n*gger with a badge. What this is about, has always been about.

[Embedded content]

The top law enforcement officer of the country, and his boss. This has nothing to do with guns or Mexico, that's for sure.

24 mr.fusion  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 1:58:10pm

re: #21 danarchy

I think when they scheduled this vote last week everyone still thought the SJC was going to be ruling on ACA by this past monday.

I'm pretty sure the "Thursday" vote was scheduled this week....

25 dragonfire1981  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 1:58:29pm

Man, people just going bananas on facebook over this ACA thing...

A few highlights...

- Someone who posted a picture of a tattered American Flag saying "this is how I feel right now"
- A status update which read: "Get rid of the dictator"
- Someone who said the Supreme Court just "Destroyed America"

Oh and this lovely picture.

26 Kragar  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 1:58:44pm

Oh Jim DeMint, you dumb bastard.

Republican Senator Calls For Federal Takeover Of State Health Exchanges By Telling States Not To Set One Up

Following the Supreme Court’s ruling to uphold the Affordable Care Act, Sen. Jim DeMint (R-SC) condemned the law as “an unprecedented and enormous tax.” Surprisingly, he also called on states to ignore the ruling and stop implementing the ACA’s exchanges. Interestingly, that would lead to the federal government stepping in:

“I urge every governor to stop implementing the health care exchanges that would help implement the harmful effects of this misguided law. Americans have loudly rejected this federal takeover of health care, and governors should join with the people and reject its implementation.”

The Affordable Care Act requires each state to set up a health insurance exchange where consumers can purchase insurance, but if a state does not implement one, then the federal government will operate the state’s exchange program.

27 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 1:59:00pm

re: #21 danarchy

I think when they scheduled this vote last week everyone still thought the SJC was going to be ruling on ACA by this past monday.

Very likely, and they probably thought it immensely fortuitous that the ruling got moved back to today, because it would mean double the bad news for Obama in a single day. Instead, SCOTUS hands Obama such a large win in the morning that, by the afternoon, nobody will pay much attention to the goings on in Congress.

Take a good look, folks, because we've just seen the high-water mark of this "scandal." Now it heads to the courts, where it will stew the rest of the year.

28 freetoken  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:00:14pm

re: #25 dragonfire1981

- Someone who said the Supreme Court just "Destroyed America"

That line gets recycled so much. The USSC has "destroyed" America so many times I wonder how there can even be an USSC left to keep destroying it over and over.

29 Varek Raith  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:00:41pm

Good day to all.
Unless you're CNN.
Lol, CNN, lol.

30 dragonfire1981  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:01:56pm

re: #29 Varek Raith

Good day to all.
Unless you're CNN.
Lol, CNN, lol.

31 Bulworth  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:01:57pm

OK, well that was exciting. So what happens to fast and furious now? how much gas is left in the outrage machine tank for the teabag party? are the (in which only one side could present evidence and witnesses) hearings over?

32 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:04:28pm

re: #31 Bulworth

OK, well that was exciting. So what happens to fast and furious now? how much gas is left in the outrage machine tank for the teabag party? are the (in which only one side could present evidence and witnesses) hearings over?

Pretty much. Issa's been saying things can't move forward without those documents, and now that the GOP has decided that good faith gestures aren't enough to dissuade them from going after Holder's scalp, there's no reason to turn those documents over. So his committee will just have to move onto something else.

33 erik_t  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:05:39pm

re: #32 Targetpractice

So his committee will just have to move onto something else.

Maybe, I dunno, governing?

Naaaaaah.

34 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:05:52pm

re: #32 Targetpractice

Pretty much. Issa's been saying things can't move forward without those documents, and now that the GOP has decided that good faith gestures aren't enough to dissuade them from going after Holder's scalp, there's no reason to turn those documents over. So his committee will just have to move onto something else.

Probably to start hunting communist sympathizers in the State Department or US Army...
///

35 Lidane  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:06:12pm

re: #33 erik_t

Maybe, I dunno, governing?

LOL

37 Lidane  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:07:29pm

re: #36 Kragar

Family Research Council invited to actively participate in GOP national convention

Why not? They've got Mitt by the Etch-a-Sketch anyway.

38 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:08:22pm

Just updated the post with Eric Holder's full statement.

39 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:08:38pm

can't wait for the National GOP Platform to be drafted. It should be an interesting read.

40 dragonfire1981  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:08:44pm
41 Lidane  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:09:47pm

re: #39 ggt

can't wait for the National GOP Platform to be drafted. It should be an interesting read.

It's going to look just like every state platform we've seen so far. Full wingnut, with nods to birtherism, religious fundamentalism, and Ron Paul's economic illiteracy and conspiracy theories tossed in for good measure.

42 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:10:37pm

The White House has released a pretty blunt statement. Trying to find it on the web.

43 Kragar  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:11:02pm

Carl Sagan papers donated by 'Family Guy' creator

The Library of Congress announced Wednesday that, thanks to MacFarlane's generosity, it has acquired the personal papers of the late scientist and astronomer, who spoke to mass audiences about the mysteries of the universe and the origins of life. While MacFarlane never owned Sagan's papers, he covered the undisclosed costs of donating them to the library.

"All I did was write a check, but it's something that was, to me, worth every penny," MacFarlane told The Associated Press by phone from Los Angeles. "He's a man whose life's work should be accessible to everybody."

44 AK-47%  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:11:36pm

re: #36 Kragar

Family Research Council invited to actively participate in GOP national convention

I am amused at how they openly attack Dick Cheney. These people are out to destroy anyone who crosses them

45 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:11:53pm
46 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:12:00pm

Well, I'd say Holder's response is clearly worded.

I don't know how all this will turn-out. I just wish it would and we could move on to the next outrage.

It seems my attention span for such things is getting shorter and shorter.

47 wrenchwench  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:12:27pm
48 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:13:15pm

re: #41 Lidane

It's going to look just like every state platform we've seen so far. Full wingnut, with nods to birtherism, religious fundamentalism, and Ron Paul's economic illiteracy and conspiracy theories tossed in for good measure.

yeah
1-blah, blah -Jesus
2-blah, blah-Founding Fathers
3-blah, blah -taxes
4-blah blah, state's rights
5-blah, blah, Jesus

49 erik_t  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:13:19pm

Michelle Bachmann looks close to tears.

This, uh, totally breaks my heart or whatever.

50 freetoken  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:14:10pm

re: #49 erik_t

Her district is going away. The clock is ticking, and she knows it.

51 Kragar  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:14:23pm

Perkins: Health Care Reform is a 'Time-Bomb of Destruction for our Nation'

We're right to be disappointed and frustrated by the Court's decision, but it was Congress that did this to begin with. It was Barack Obama who did this to begin with, so I think we've got to go back and put this around them, making them responsible for something that almost 70% of Americans oppose.

We do have a way to correct this, and it's called the election in November. And folks, I'm going to tell you, if you're apathetic and you think "well, I'm not going to vote because I've got a choice between this one and that one and there's not that much difference," there is a difference! Barack Obama is responsible for this health care bill which is going to strip you of your rights as an American citizen in the ability to make your own decisions. It is an infringement upon religious freedom. We have rationing boards that are going to be put in place. These are not seeds, this is a time-bomb of destruction for our nation and President Obama is responsible for it.

52 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:14:27pm

re: #49 erik_t

Michelle Bachmann looks close to tears.

This, uh, totally breaks my heart or whatever.

The House GOP are free to go ahead and vote to repeal. But it's not going anywhere in the Senate and even if it did, they have nowhere near the votes they'd need to overturn a veto.

Better luck next year.

53 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:14:31pm

The White House statement:

At the beginning of this year, Republicans announced one of their top priorities was to investigate the Administration and to ensure that President Obama was a one-term President. Despite the major economic challenges facing the country, they talked openly about devoting taxpayer-funded, Congressional oversight resources to political purposes.

The problem of gunwalking was a field-driven tactic that dated back to the George W. Bush Administration, and it was this Administration’s Attorney General who ended it. Attorney General Holder has said repeatedly that fighting criminal activity along the Southwest Border – including the illegal trafficking of guns to Mexico has been is a top priority of the Department. Eric Holder has been an excellent Attorney General and just yesterday the Chairman of the House Oversight Committee acknowledged that he had no evidence – or even the suspicion – that the Attorney General knew of the misguided tactics used in this operation.

Yet, Republicans pushed for political theater rather than legitimate Congressional oversight. Over the past fourteen months, the Justice Department accommodated Congressional investigators, producing 7,600 pages of documents, and testifying at eleven Congressional hearings. In an act of good faith, this week the Administration made an additional offer which would have resulted in the Committee getting unprecedented access to documents dispelling any notion of an intent to mislead. But unfortunately, a politically-motivated agenda prevailed and instead of engaging with the President in efforts to create jobs and grow the economy, today we saw the House of Representatives perform a transparently political stunt.

54 MittDoesNotCompute  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:15:57pm

re: #44 Expand Your Ground

I am amused at how they openly attack Dick Cheney. These people are out to destroy anyone who crosses them

Oh, I'm sure that the FRC just loved Cheney, until he didn't disown his daughter for being gay.

Score one for Darth Cheney...

55 Bulworth  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:16:05pm

re: #51 Kragar

Perkins: Health Care Reform is a 'Time-Bomb of Destruction for our Nation'

Well, good grief, how long before this time bomb of destruction goes off? /

56 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:16:58pm

re: #55 Bulworth

Well, good grief, how long before this time bomb of destruction goes off? /

Well, looks for the signs --blood instead of water in the streams, locust, frogs . . .

57 AK-47%  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:17:09pm

re: #55 Bulworth

Well, good grief, how long before this time bomb of destruction goes off? /

cut the blue (state) wire first!!!

58 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:17:11pm

re: #53 Charles Johnson

The White House statement:

Shorter whitehouse. We knew it, we're surrounded by Assholes!

59 MittDoesNotCompute  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:17:20pm

re: #50 freetoken

Her district is going away. The clock is ticking, and she knows it.

And I love it...couldn't have happened to a better moron.

60 dragonfire1981  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:17:34pm

re: #55 Bulworth

Well, good grief, how long before this time bomb of destruction goes off? /

Seems appropriate:

Matthew Good Band - Hello Time Bomb

61 Kragar  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:17:49pm

re: #55 Bulworth

Well, good grief, how long before this time bomb of destruction goes off? /

Soon...

62 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:18:33pm

re: #49 erik_t

I feel her pain to the heart of my bottom.

63 Bulworth  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:18:57pm

Now I'm all worred a time bomb is going to go off. Didn't Roberts understand about the time bomb? //

64 AK-47%  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:19:22pm
65 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:22:19pm

Aristotle frequently compares the politician to a craftsman.


Perhaps, I could sarcastically change that to "crafty man"

66 Bulworth  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:22:32pm

As long as the time bomb doesn't go off before I get my house refinanced everything should be OK. /

67 Kragar  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:23:14pm

Beck - Timebomb

68 erik_t  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:26:26pm

re: #62 Daniel Ballard

I feel her pain to the heart of my bottom.

I'm afraid I shipped from the factory with a black pit where my heart should be.

Pre-existing condition, ya know.

69 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:28:22pm

re: #63 Bulworth

Now I'm all worred a time bomb is going to go off. Didn't Roberts understand about the time bomb? //

More importantly, how do we differentiate the effects of this time bomb from the time bombs set off by gay unions, immigration amnesty, women's suffrage, not actively discriminating versus Muslims, and Obama's election...

...and also all of the above from God's righteous wrath because of the US's acceptance of gays, Muslims, uppity women, uppity brown folks, social welfare, and secular education....

70 jaunte  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:29:30pm
Attorney General Holder has said repeatedly that fighting criminal activity along the Southwest Border – including the illegal trafficking of guns to Mexico has been is a top priority of the Department.

Letting the NRA decide we won't arrest straw purchasers tends to make gun trafficking an insoluble problem.

71 Locker  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:29:47pm

This vote was timed to try and deflect focus from Obama's Affordable Care Act victory. Republicans are champion money and time wasters.

72 Lidane  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:31:10pm

re: #71 Locker

Republicans are champion money and time wasters.

Fiscal responsibility!

73 simoom  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:31:25pm

According to the roll these two Republicans voted against criminal contempt -- though looks like they're likely supporting civil contempt:

Steve LaTourette (OH)
[Link: latourette.house.gov...]

Scott Rigell (VA)
[Link: rigell.house.gov...]

74 Kragar  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:31:39pm

re: #71 Locker

This vote was timed to try and deflect focus from Obama's Affordable Care Act victory. Republicans are champion money and time wasters.

Politics are supposed to be a calling, just like teaching and law enforcement. I propose we cut their salaries and benefits. I don't think any Republicans would disagree when you put it like that.

75 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:31:50pm

Have fun all!

bbl

76 wrenchwench  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:31:56pm

re: #70 jaunte

Letting the NRA decide we won't arrest straw purchasers tends to make gun trafficking an insoluble problem.

Irony, tragedy, comedy ...some of each I guess.

77 AK-47%  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:31:59pm

re: #71 Locker

This vote was timed to try and deflect focus from Obama's Affordable Care Act victory. Republicans are champion money and time wasters.

I think it was intended to add to Obama's misery at ACA being struck down by SCOTUS. It all backfired badly for them...

78 Only The Lurker Knows  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:32:24pm

re: #68 erik_t

I shipped with one of these.

79 labman57  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:34:48pm

More political masturbation by the House majority. Feel better now?

80 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:35:12pm

re: #71 Locker

This vote was timed to try and deflect focus from Obama's Affordable Care Act victory. Republicans are champion money and time wasters.

Naw, they had no idea how the Supremes were going to vote. In fact most of them were fairly positive this was going to be a two-fer victory and an incredibly embarrassing day for Obama. Now, after yesterday's Fortune article on the lies surrounding F&F and then today Roberts kicking the GOP in the nuts conservatives around the country are clogging emergency rooms with cardiac rage-gasms.

81 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:36:01pm

re: #73 simoom

According to the roll these two Republicans voted against criminal contempt -- though looks like they're likely supporting civil contempt:

Steve LaTourette (OH)
[Link: latourette.house.gov...]

Scott Rigell (VA)
[Link: rigell.house.gov...]

*spit take*

Holy hell, there's a Virginia Republican who doesn't perpetually walk around with his stick up his ass?

82 darthstar  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:36:12pm

Photo of the day...reaction to the SCOTUS decision.

Image: 603395_411006098950637_332853383_n.jpg

83 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:36:47pm

re: #82 darthstar

Photo of the day...reaction to the SCOTUS decision.

Image: 603395_411006098950637_332853383_n.jpg

"Damnit, Nancy, why you gotta rub it in?"

84 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:37:14pm

re: #82 darthstar

Photo of the day...reaction to the SCOTUS decision.

Image: 603395_411006098950637_332853383_n.jpg

Saw that picture earlier, but it's not about the SCOTUS decision - it's from yesterday: [Link: news.daylife.com...]

85 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:37:38pm

re: #82 darthstar

Photo of the day...reaction to the SCOTUS decision.

Image: 603395_411006098950637_332853383_n.jpg

ROFL. Boehner looks like he's just been physically punched, hard.

86 darthstar  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:38:02pm

Capitalism

87 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:38:14pm
88 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:38:18pm

re: #81 Targetpractice

*spit take*

Holy hell, there's a Virginia Republican who doesn't perpetually walk around with his stick up his ass?

[Embedded content]

Yeah i know, i thought they left when John Warner and Tom Davis retired.

89 darthstar  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:39:37pm

re: #84 Charles Johnson

Saw that picture earlier, but it's not about the SCOTUS decision - it's from yesterday: [Link: news.daylife.com...]

Holy shit...that's even worse...what an asshole.

Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio, right, and House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif. , left, are seen on stage during a Congressional Gold Medal ceremony to honor the surviving members of the Montford Point Marines,

90 jaunte  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:39:57pm

Health care and sustainability, part deux:

We asked some influential thinkers and doers what they make of the Supreme Court’s health-care ruling and its potential impact on sustainability, democracy, and America. See what they have to say below. (This is our second batch of responses; check out the first.)

91 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:40:52pm

re: #84 Charles Johnson

Saw that picture earlier, but it's not about the SCOTUS decision - it's from yesterday: [Link: news.daylife.com...]

So what's his problem then, just doesn't like being around black Marines? Did the photographer beat him up earlier? Weird.

92 freetoken  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:43:48pm

re: #90 jaunte

The problem I have with those responses is that they are from people who really are not involved in the creation, delivery, or pricing of health care. Activists as a whole don't make for good analysts.

93 Shvaughn  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:43:49pm

Meanwhile, Pam Geller seems to be freaking out about blind Muslims who use miniature horses instead of guide dogs, CREEPING SHARIA!

94 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:46:29pm

re: #93 Shvaughn

Meanwhile, Pam Geller seems to be freaking out about blind Muslims who use miniature horses instead of guide dogs, CREEPING SHARIA!

Insane even for her.

95 Kragar  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:46:42pm

Anti-Gay protestors claim they were bullied when offered cookies

All week, anti-gay activists are “dumping General Mills” outside the company’s headquarters in Minnesota to protest its opposition to the state’s marriage inequality amendment. The protests have been dismal, with only two or three dozen people bothering to show up — even less without counting their children. Jeremy Hooper points out now that the Minnesota for Marriage protesters are pretending to be victims as an excuse for their small numbers. Andy Parrish, Deputy Campaign Manager for the anti-equality coalition, tweeted the following today:

@generalmills VP and Head of Security’s presence at our rally to intimidate their employees from joining us ‪#stribpol‬ pic.twitter.com/FCGs9aeM

It’s unclear from this random picture who the vice president and head of security are or what it is they are doing to “intimidate” anybody. Perhaps they are sitting on the bench — how very off-putting. A legitimate group of corporate protesters would be grateful for the access and opportunity to engage with individuals in leadership positions, but apparently not Minnesota for Marriage.

Further, General Mills employees have actually taken very good care of their dissenters, offering the best in Midwestern hospitality:

Employees of General Mills responded to protesters by offering them coffee or ice water with slices of lemon. There would have been cookies too, except the protesters said they’d accept them only to add to the smattering of ‘dumped’ food they had collected. “It’s the neighborly thing to do,” Tom Forsythe spokesman for General Mills explained the unexpected hospitality. “I was raised as a Minnesotan, and when people drop by your house, you put on coffee, so that’s what we did.”

96 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:47:00pm

re: #93 Shvaughn

Meanwhile, Pam Geller seems to be freaking out about blind Muslims who use miniature horses instead of guide dogs, CREEPING SHARIA!

She's rather smashed for this early in the evening.

97 jaunte  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:48:39pm

Video from 2006 of Mitt Romney describing his Massachusetts health care law. It included a “tax” to compel the wealthy to buy insurance:
[Link: www.buzzfeed.com...]

Romney: “For those that have higher incomes, we expect them to have health insurance. And if they don't we're going to withhold their tax refund or put in place other penalties to assure that everybody comes in the system."

98 Kragar  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:49:36pm

And today's ridiculous comparison award goes to...

99 wrenchwench  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:51:08pm

I might add, "non-white or non-male" in there.

100 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:51:30pm

re: #98 Kragar

And today's ridiculous comparison award goes to...

Eh sorry accidently diwndigged that.

101 Kragar  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:52:16pm

re: #100 HappyWarrior

Eh sorry accidently diwndigged that.

No worries.

102 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:53:05pm

Okay we can not try to look past this quite yet. When the "Veracity Inspector' for the IG releases their report, it may support the whistle blowers, or it may squash their contentions and look just like the fortune article.

Either conclusion should have a major impact on the contempt charge, and on ATF.

BTW did anyone but me get a little Orwellian flashback at that job title? Veracity Inspector'? Imagine that conversation on a first date. "What do you do at your job?"

103 Kragar  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:53:37pm

lawsuit says priest sexually assaulted woman during ‘exorcisms’

When they met in 2008, Euteneuer told the woman that he thought her case was “severe” but that he was sure he could help rid her body of a “demonic infestation” of “unclean spirits,” according to a lawsuit filed in Arlington County Circuit Court.

Over the next two years, the suit alleges, Euteneuer sexually molested the woman repeatedly during purported “exorcism” sessions, often conducted in offices on the Human Life International campus, near Interstate 66 about an hour west of Washington.

The rite of exorcism begins with a priest sprinkling holy water and saying prayers. In some cases, it is described as ending with the subject shaking violently, screaming or speaking in tongues. What the lawsuit alleges goes well beyond the rituals prescribed by the Catholic Church.

“He kissed the corners of her mouth; stroked her legs, breasts and thighs; caressed her face; laid his body on top of hers; and frequently explained full, passionate kisses as ‘blowing the Holy Spirit into’ her,” the lawsuit alleges. Once, at a conference, the suit alleges, Euteneuer invited the woman to his hotel room to “pray over” her, then removed her clothes and assaulted her.

104 darthstar  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:54:06pm
105 AK-47%  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:54:42pm

re: #103 Kragar

lawsuit says priest sexually assaulted woman during ‘exorcisms’

Interfering with his religious freedom!

106 Kragar  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:54:57pm

re: #104 darthstar

[Embedded content]

The GOP gave up on reasoned responses 4 years ago.

107 AK-47%  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:55:40pm

re: #106 Kragar

The GOP gave up on reasoned responses 4 years ago.

109 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:55:48pm

Afternoon Lizardim. So, President Obama got his health care bill and the wingnuts went full derp. I wouldn't care so much about it if it wasn't for the fact that the lawmakers followed suit. I mean, really, Congress? This is your petty revenge? And you wonder why your approval ratings are in the tank.

110 darthstar  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:56:05pm
111 Kragar  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:56:53pm

re: #110 darthstar

[Embedded content]

Have we seen his birth certificate yet?

112 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 2:57:07pm
113 Mocking Jay  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 3:02:11pm

Obama sighs; freedom fries.

114 freetoken  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 3:02:13pm

On a not quite totally different topic, I've warned before of the use of science and genetics by various racist non-religious types touting Darwin and evolution and all.

Well, today Derbyshire does just that, in a twisted little piece (published at VDARE among other sources) called "John Derbyshire On What's So Scary About Darwin?", which attempts to justify racism on the basis of science.

It's a rambling piece based on a presentation Derbyshire gave at the presumptuously titled get-together "The Ascent Of Man"

Many overlook these non-creationist throwbacks because they love to spout scientific sounding terms - it's all very "sciency", but I find them to be even more objectionable than creationists.

115 A Mom Anon  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 3:05:48pm

Good God. How did we get to this place where so many people are genuinely frightened of freaking health care? What.The.Hell?

IMO,there should be a consequence when an elected official goes on TV or radio and just outright lies their ass off to the public. All these assholes HAVE fucking healthcare,bought and paid for by OUR taxes. And no one ever confronts them about that. Ever.Or the fact that they draw a paycheck from the government the supposedly despise so much.

I probably need to go for a swim before I break something and scream. bastards.

116 wrenchwench  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 3:06:45pm

I think we have a Raelian hatchling.

Would that be a first?

117 dragonfire1981  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 3:06:47pm

re: #115 A Mom Anon

Good God. How did we get to this place where so many people are genuinely frightened of freaking health care? What.The.Hell?

IMO,there should be a consequence when an elected official goes on TV or radio and just outright lies their ass off to the public. All these assholes HAVE fucking healthcare,bought and paid for by OUR taxes. And no one ever confronts them about that. Ever.Or the fact that they draw a paycheck from the government the supposedly despise so much.

I probably need to go for a swim before I break something and scream. bastards.

This is my question. With all the huge problems facing America right now, we've chosen to get thrown into a fury over health care.

118 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 3:08:43pm

re: #115 A Mom Anon

I don't think people are afraid of health care so much as they just don't understand why this is a good thing. They can't comprehend how government spending is a good thing in certain circumstances. It's basically an argument from ignorance - "All government spending is bad, ObamaCare is increasing government spending, therefore EBILLL."

119 RadicalModerate  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 3:10:25pm

re: #99 wrenchwench

[Embedded content]

I might add, "non-white or non-male" in there.

Yeah, but unlike Reno and Holder, Gonzales very, very likely BROKE THE LAW with his politically-motivated mass-firings of federal District Attorneys and his blatant disregard of the Constitution for spearheading the warrantless wiretap program (which even John Ashcroft condemned).

Oh, and Gonzales actually resigned to avoid criminal prosecution.

120 A Mom Anon  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 3:10:32pm

re: #117 dragonfire1981

In thinking about it some more,there are a select group of people who want us to keep fighting with each other so we don't pay attention to the real assholes we need to be pissed at and fighting against. Divide and conquer and all that. But if one more idiot conservative douche in my neck of the woods tells me liberals don't work,don't care for their kids,don't have morals or hate America I am not going to remain civil. I am sick of this shit.

121 William of Orange  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 3:10:52pm

Is an armed revolt in this case also justified?

Too stupid for words.

122 engineer cat  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 3:10:54pm

re: #115 A Mom Anon

Good God. How did we get to this place where so many people are genuinely frightened of freaking health care? What.The.Hell

i think there are a lot of people who have been manipulated by this "taking over 1/6th of our economy" lie to believe that the ACA mandates government-only health insurance and heath care, that is, really and truly socialized medicine

it is hard to fight such awesome powers of ignorance

123 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 3:11:01pm

re: #117 dragonfire1981

This is my question. With all the huge problems facing America right now, we've chosen to get thrown into a fury over health care.

It's because everything is being framed as apocalyptic, and the folks that are in a fury have bothered to look beyond the narrative they've been handed.

Lots of folks have tremendous outrage and a sense that something is wrong, but really have no developed understanding of what or why.

124 AK-47%  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 3:12:41pm

re: #123 The Ghost of a Flea

Lots of folks have tremendous outrage and a sense that something is wrong, but really have no developed understanding of what or why.

And it often has a lot to do with the color of the person in the White House.

125 wrenchwench  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 3:12:41pm

re: #119 RadicalModerate

Yeah, but unlike Reno and Holder, Gonzales very, very likely BROKE THE LAW with his politically-motivated mass-firings of federal District Attorneys and his blatant disregard of the Constitution for spearheading the warrantless wiretap program (which even John Ashcroft condemned).

Oh, and Gonzales actually resigned to avoid criminal prosecution.

I thought those attys. served at the pleasure of the President and could be fired at will. And I definitely suspect that the one who was in NM deserved it.

126 erik_t  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 3:13:08pm

re: #102 Daniel Ballard

BTW did anyone but me get a little Orwellian flashback at that job title? Veracity Inspector'? Imagine that conversation on a first date. "What do you do at your job?"

I'd prefer to be a Voracity Inspector.

127 Aye Pod  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 3:13:35pm

re: #116 wrenchwench

I think we have a Raelian hatchling.

Would that be a first?

Awesome.

128 allegro  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 3:14:02pm

re: #95 Kragar

Employees of General Mills responded to protesters by offering them coffee or ice water with slices of lemon. There would have been cookies too, except the protesters said they’d accept them only to add to the smattering of ‘dumped’ food they had collected. “It’s the neighborly thing to do,” Tom Forsythe spokesman for General Mills explained the unexpected hospitality. “I was raised as a Minnesotan, and when people drop by your house, you put on coffee, so that’s what we did.”

Oh, that is wonderful! What a perfectly delightful response to make them look like the bigots and idiots they are.

129 dragonfire1981  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 3:17:42pm

I suppose my views on this matter are somewhat colored by the fact I lived the first 25 years of my life in Canada, under a socialized medical system. There were not riots in the streets, fire raining down from the sky or cities crumbling to their foundations.

Last I checked, Canada was still very much a free country.

And guess which nation (between Canada and the U.S.) spends LESS per capita on health care? (hint: It's the colder one).

130 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 3:18:27pm

re: #128 allegro

Oh, that is wonderful! What a perfectly delightful response to make them look like the bigots and idiots they are.

That's the Minnesota way. We just do things differently up here.

131 wrenchwench  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 3:24:55pm

MexicanMitt is on a roll today.

132 freetoken  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 3:29:01pm

The socialist plot to overthrow America appears to be working:

Gold down over 1pc on US healthcare ruling, Europe

Gold fell more than 1 percent on Thursday, hit by worries of an economic slowdown after a US Supreme Court ruling upheld a landmark healthcare law and by fading hopes that a European Union summit will resolve that region's debt crisis.

[...]

Earlier in the session, gold extended losses as crude oil and US equities tumbled after the Supreme Court upheld President Barack Obama's healthcare law, which assesses a financial penalty to individuals who do not obtain health insurance.

"Individuals are perceived to have less to spend on other goods and services, and companies are less willing to take on additional projects, so you see industrial metals as well as gold and silver sell off ," said Phillip Streible, senior commodities broker at futures brokerage R.J. O'Brien.

[...]

Chief Justice Roberts - the Manchurian justice.

133 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 3:29:13pm

re: #125 wrenchwench

I thought those attys. served at the pleasure of the President and could be fired at will. And I definitely suspect that the one who was in NM deserved it.

Theoretically yes, but the "pleasure of the President" isn't legally supposed to include firing people for political motive -> in order to impede investigations against Republican politicians, or for their refusal to launch investigations against certain Democrats. Also, normally US attorneys are fired and (re)hired en masse at the beginning of a new administration, not piecemeal and not in the mid-term.

134 Varek Raith  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 3:30:19pm

Rep. Mike Pence Compares Obamacare Ruling To 9/11

In a closed door House GOP meeting Thursday, Indiana congressman and gubernatorial candidate Mike Pence likened the Supreme Court’s ruling upholding the Democratic health care law to the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, according to several sources present.

135 abolitionist  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 3:32:55pm

re: #114 freetoken

"The Ascent Of Man" huh? That's a title shamelessly stolen from Jacob Bronowski.

He is best remembered as the presenter and writer of the 1973 BBC television documentary series, The Ascent of Man, and the accompanying book.

I was quite impressed by Bronowski's end-of-life project.

136 freetoken  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 3:34:25pm

Manhattan Institute live-streaming a lament over today's decision:

[Link: www.manhattan-institute.org...]

137 wrenchwench  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 3:35:01pm

re: #133 goddamnedfrank

Theoretically yes, but the "pleasure of the President" isn't legally supposed to include firing people for political motive -> in order to impede investigations against Republican politicians, or for their refusal to launch investigations against certain Democrats. Also, normally US attorneys are fired and (re)hired en masse at the beginning of a new administration, not piecemeal and not in the mid-term.

OK. But David Iglesias really was dragging his feet about prosecuting some extremely corrupt individuals. I guess that doesn't justify the rest of the deal.

138 dragonfire1981  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 3:35:06pm

re: #134 Varek Raith

Rep. Mike Pence Compares Obamacare Ruling To 9/11

Right because supporting health insurance for all citizens is EXACTLY like flying a 747 into an office building and killing thousands of people.

139 RadicalModerate  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 3:35:09pm

re: #125 wrenchwench

I thought those attys. served at the pleasure of the President and could be fired at will. And I definitely suspect that the one who was in NM deserved it.

You're referring to David Iglesias, who refused to fast-track a politically-motivated corruption investigation of a New Mexico state representative, and told the state party members (along with US Senator Pete Domenici, who was pushing for the investigation) that there might not be evidence to warrant an indictment. He was removed from office a few months later, given a reason of excess absences.

The reason for his absences? Iglesias is a member of the US Navy Reserves, and was performing his mandatory 40-day annual active duty.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

140 freetoken  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 3:35:27pm

re: #135 abolitionist

Bronowski's show was one of the highlights of television up till that time, yet another choice result from Attenborough's run at the BBC.

141 wrenchwench  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 3:37:48pm

re: #139 RadicalModerate

You're referring to David Iglesias, who refused to fast-track a politically-motivated corruption investigation of a New Mexico state representative, and told the state party members (along with US Senator Pete Domenici, who was pushing for the investigation) that there might not be evidence to warrant an indictment. He was removed from office a few months later, given a reason of excess absences.

The reason for his absences? Iglesias is a member of the US Navy Reserves, and was performing his mandatory 40-day annual active duty.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

I remember it differently:

Three weeks after Iglesias was dismissed, his replacement, Acting U.S. Attorney Larry Gomez brought a 26 count felony indictment against Aragon. In a plea bargain, Aragon pled guilty to three felony fraud counts.

Richardson himself should have been nailed for something. The corruption in his administration is the main reason the Democrats lost the governorship in NM, I think.

142 freetoken  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 3:40:22pm

Those pundits at Manhattan Institute are trying hard to put a their spin on something they really don't like. The MI is often touted as a "serious" conservative institution (as opposed to wingnuttery), but it's hard to take them seriously.

143 RadicalModerate  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 3:44:25pm

re: #141 wrenchwench

I remember it differently:

Richardson himself should have been nailed for something. The corruption in his administration is the main reason the Democrats lost the governorship in NM, I think.

I never claimed that the charges weren't valid, just that Iglesias refused to play ball on possibly tainting an investigation by fast-tracking it to occur in the middle of a contested election season. Also, there's this from the subsequent Justice Department investigation:

In October 2008, a report by the Department of Justice's Inspector General found that Iglesias had been wrongfully dismissed because he had refused to pursue prosecutions against the Democrat-linked community organization ACORN and a prominent New Mexico Democrat. "The real reasons for Iglesias' removal were the complaints from New Mexico Republican politicians and party activists about how Iglesias handled voter fraud and public corruption cases in the state," the report says. The Inspector General's report says that Senator Domenici's complaints were the "primary" reason Iglesias was fired.[3]

144 darthstar  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 3:44:49pm
145 aagcobb  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 3:48:19pm

re: #129 dragonfire1981

I suppose my views on this matter are somewhat colored by the fact I lived the first 25 years of my life in Canada, under a socialized medical system. There were not riots in the streets, fire raining down from the sky or cities crumbling to their foundations.

Last I checked, Canada was still very much a free country.

And guess which nation (between Canada and the U.S.) spends LESS per capita on health care? (hint: It's the colder one).

When you had to appear before a death panel, did you simply beg to be allowed to live, or did they do something cool like require you to win a deathmatch with another sick patient?/

146 wrenchwench  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 3:48:57pm

re: #143 RadicalModerate

I never claimed that the charges weren't valid, just that Iglesias refused to play ball on possibly tainting an investigation by fast-tracking it to occur in the middle of a contested election season. Also, there's this from the subsequent Justice Department investigation:

Yeah, I think Domenici and Heather Wilson both made some inappropriate phone calls, but that doesn't mean Iglesias's delays were warranted. And then Domenici decided not to run for reelection due to a brain disease that it turned out he didn't have. Weird. And Wilson is running for the other Senate seat now.

147 darthstar  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 3:48:59pm
148 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 3:53:17pm

re: #141 wrenchwench

I remember it differently:

Richardson himself should have been nailed for something. The corruption in his administration is the main reason the Democrats lost the governorship in NM, I think.

The fact that they charged Aragon with 26 counts and settled for a three count 5 1/2 year plea deal indicates to me that Iglesias's cautious attitude in trying to construct a solid case might have been reasonable. Not denying that there was corruption in Richardson's administration, but it wasn't provable enough for him to be convicted. Anyway, an analysis of the firing of Iglesias has to include the political pressure that was being put on him inappropriately by people like Allen Weh.

149 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 3:54:14pm

re: #132 freetoken

Most of you know I work in that industry.
The truth of that is Europe. Not SCOTUS.

150 darthstar  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 3:56:11pm

Obama made a mistake this morning. He had Fox and CNN on when the decision came down, and thought he'd lost the decision in the SCOTUS.

[Link: firstread.msnbc.msn.com...]

For about 40 seconds, the president believed that his landmark, legacy-defining legislative accomplishment, had been gutted.


That was until White House counsel Kathryn Ruemmler came into the room and gave the president two thumbs up -- the law had actually been upheld. She quickly explained to a confused president what had happened.

151 bratwurst  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 3:58:24pm

Just about an hour until we find out if Bill "Ted Baxter" O'Reilly apologizes for being an idiot as promised if he were wrong about today's decision!

152 Shvaughn  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 3:59:01pm

re: #151 bratwurst

Just about an hour until we find out if Bill "Ted Baxter" O'Reilly apologizes for being an idiot as promised if he were wrong about today's decision!

Why would you say such a terrible thing about Ted Baxter?

153 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 3:59:50pm

re: #150 darthstar

Obama made a mistake this morning. He had Fox and CNN on when the decision came down, and thought he'd lost the decision in the SCOTUS.

[Link: firstread.msnbc.msn.com...]

I'm not normally a Jon Roberts fan boy, but he really pulled off an epic level mind-fuck today.

154 Kragar  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 4:00:53pm

For all Gamers out there, Steam is selling all Warhammer 40k PC games at 75% off till Monday

155 freetoken  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 4:06:12pm

re: #153 goddamnedfrank

I'm not normally a Jon Roberts fan boy, but he really pulled off an epic level mind-fuck today.

Some are noting that Roberts praisers ought to be more cautious, and that Roberts was really trying to simply play politics setting up for a Hayek-ian slow takeover of the USSC.

These same people are trumpeting the limitation of the Medicaid portion of ACA as an example.

156 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 4:06:49pm

re: #145 aagcobb

When you had to appear before a death panel, did you simply beg to be allowed to live, or did they do something cool like require you to win a deathmatch with another sick patient?/

They'll follow el Rushbo's example and demand videotaped sex acts, I suspect.

157 Someone Please Beam Me Up!  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 4:09:23pm

re: #154 Kragar

For all Gamers out there, Steam is selling all Warhammer 40k PC games at 75% off till Monday

For the RPG'ers (who value story over graphics), GOG has all five Geneforge games on sale for $10 (for all of them, not each).

158 Varek Raith  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 4:15:07pm

re: #157 Washed-Up-Clowns 'R' Us!

For the RPG'ers (who value story over graphics), GOG has all five Geneforge games on sale for $10 (for all of them, not each).

Sweet.

159 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 4:16:38pm

re: #155 freetoken

Some are noting that Roberts praisers ought to be more cautious, and that Roberts was really trying to simply play politics setting up for a Hayek-ian slow takeover of the USSC.

These same people are trumpeting the limitation of the Medicaid portion of ACA as an example.

This makes sense how exactly? The majority seems to have ruled basically in total opposition to Hayekian definitions of socialism.

Personally I think he just got sick of watching Kennedy's ego, and dealing with the pretense that his vote was the only one that mattered.

160 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 4:16:41pm

Yeah, that's right, I'm a nerd. What of it?

161 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 4:17:46pm

Just started using the fabulous Less CSS compiler at LGF. Wondering why I waited so long to try it.

[Link: lesscss.org...]

162 darthstar  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 4:18:43pm

re: #160 Charles Johnson

I'll bet @hpadding wonders why you're writing to him in code.

163 freetoken  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 4:19:41pm

re: #159 goddamnedfrank

Because:

(1) Medicaid growth is limited;
(2) calling the mandate a "tax" opens up the way for the future to change it via budgeting processes.

And, even more subtly, by making the USSC seem above politics, Roberts by keeping the USSC seem more neutral buys leverage for future decisions which incrementally limit the ACA, such challenges to specific federally set-up insurance exchanges in those states which chose to not set up state-wide exchanges, etc.

164 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 4:19:53pm

Heh, Twitter turns those Less variables into links to what it thinks are Twitter users.

165 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 4:21:58pm

I'm actually using the PHP version at LGF, not the Node.js version.

[Link: leafo.net...]

166 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 4:25:40pm

re: #157 Washed-Up-Clowns 'R' Us!

For the RPG'ers (who value story over graphics), GOG has all five Geneforge games on sale for $10 (for all of them, not each).

Linky? My google-fu failed but not before telling me there are mac versions of the series.

167 darthstar  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 4:26:00pm

I don't know what this guy was thinking...but that's why I never go to Supercuts for a haircut.

Image: 403782_10150938312492917_911841984_n.jpg

168 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 4:30:33pm

re: #167 darthstar

I don't know what this guy was thinking...but that's why I never go to Supercuts for a haircut.

Image: 403782_10150938312492917_911841984_n.jpg

Guy must be a joy going through airport security.

169 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 4:36:05pm

re: #167 darthstar

I don't know what this guy was thinking...but that's why I never go to Supercuts for a haircut.

Image: 403782_10150938312492917_911841984_n.jpg

His fucking nostrils. OMG

170 freetoken  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 4:39:19pm

Well, one of the talking heads at MI just went wingnut and claims that ACA is a plot to drive private insurance companies out of business as the next step towards single payer.

171 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 4:40:37pm

re: #170 freetoken

Well, one of the talking heads at MI just went wingnut and claims that ACA is a plot to drive private insurance companies out of business as the next step towards single payer.

Oh, if only.

172 freetoken  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 4:43:37pm

After being exposed for trying to manipulate British politics via wire tapping, Murdoch poises his empire to invest mostly in wingnut-friendly America:

Rupert Murdoch snubs Britain and says he will invest his billions in the US

173 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 4:45:44pm

re: #163 freetoken

Because:

(1) Medicaid growth is limited;
(2) calling the mandate a "tax" opens up the way for the future to change it via budgeting processes.

And, even more subtly, by making the USSC seem above politics, Roberts by keeping the USSC seem more neutral buys leverage for future decisions which incrementally limit the ACA, such challenges to specific federally set-up insurance exchanges in those states which chose to not set up state-wide exchanges, etc.

Medicaid growth isn't limited, what the Court said was the totality of federal Medicaid funding can't be withheld (used as both carrot and stick) as a means to get States to accept the deal. States can still accept the increased funding to expand their programs, and most will because it's such a good deal. Still not sure how this in any way points to a conspiracy on Roberts's part to, in some vague future, slowly strangle something he could have killed outright today.

174 freetoken  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 4:45:59pm

Oh my...


Woman says exorcising priest molested her

A Virginia woman has sued a major anti-abortion group, charging the Catholic priest who headed the group sexually assaulted her during "exorcisms."

The lawsuit filed in state court last week seeks $5.3 million in damages from Human Life International, the Catholic diocese of Arlington, Va., and Bishop Paul Loverde, The Washington Post reported. The Rev. Thomas Euteneuer, former director of HLI, is not named as a defendant.

Euteneuer told the woman she was possessed by "unclean spirits" in 2008, the lawsuit says. He offered to help her and allegedly performed exorcism rituals, sometimes at the HLI campus in Front Royal, Va., west of Washington on I-66.

"He kissed the corners of her mouth; stroked her legs, breasts and thighs; caressed her face; laid his body on top of hers; and frequently explained full, passionate kisses as 'blowing the Holy Spirit into' her," the complaint says.

[...]

175 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 4:46:43pm

re: #174 freetoken

Oh my...

Woman says exorcising priest molested her

Some sleazeballs in the audience are thinking "Why didn't I think of that?"

176 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 4:47:26pm

re: #169 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012

His fucking nostrils. OMG

Good airflow tho'. Betting he doesn't snore.

177 allegro  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 4:48:13pm

re: #176 goddamnedfrank

Good airflow tho'. Betting he doesn't snore.

Imagine what happens when he sneezes. Wouldn't wanna be standing next to him.

178 abolitionist  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 4:58:08pm

re: #160 Charles Johnson

Yeah, that's right, I'm a nerd. What of it?

[Embedded content]

Zero expertise in css here, so other considerations might apply, but could you simplify by re-factoring? Ie, by using
0 0 0 -(((@width / 2) + (@hPadding) + (@dialogBorderWidth)));
instead of
0 0 0 -((@width + (@hPadding * 2) + (@dialogBorderWidth * 2)) / 2);

Seems you'd still have a div-by-2 --but would save two mul-by-2 operations. I'm simply assuming distributive law for the /2 operation can be applied, to simplify the expression.

179 Renaissance_Man  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 4:59:59pm

re: #153 goddamnedfrank

I'm not normally a Jon Roberts fan boy, but he really pulled off an epic level mind-fuck today.

I'm still not a John Roberts fanboy. I'm not a lawyer, but I talk a lot with friends who are, and who are extremely conservative (albeit by foreign standards) to boot. Even they continually scratch their heads over Citizens United. Really, Chief Justice? Corporations are people, really? Today's verdict strikes me very much as being motivated by something other than a desire to find constitutionality or accurately interpret the law. I'm not sure we see all the ramifications of this decision yet.

On another note, it is extraordinary how far the Overton Window has shifted that lefties are now cheering for a policy initially conceived by the Heritage Foundation.

180 Someone Please Beam Me Up!  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 5:02:55pm

re: #166 William Barnett-Lewis

Linky? My google-fu failed but not before telling me there are mac versions of the series.

This is the link, but they only do Windows versions.

[Link: www.gog.com...]

Spiderweb's free demos (link below, to both full versions and demos) are larger than a lot of games, though. (Or you can buy them directly for $45 the set -- Jeff Vogel writes them for mac first, then ports them to PC.)

[Link: www.spiderwebsoftware.com...]

181 freetoken  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 5:03:51pm

re: #179 Renaissance_Man

...Today's verdict strikes me very much as being motivated by something other than a desire to find constitutionality or accurately interpret the law. I'm not sure we see all the ramifications of this decision yet.

Which is why so many right wing pundits are looking for ulterior motives in Roberts' decision. Lots of speculation going on.

Agree too with your observation of how far discussions have moved if so-called progressives are championing an anti-universal health care "solution" proposed by corporate advocates.

182 kirkspencer  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 5:05:06pm

re: #173 goddamnedfrank

Medicaid growth isn't limited, what the Court said was the totality of federal Medicaid funding can't be withheld (used as both carrot and stick) as a means to get States to accept the deal. States can still accept the increased funding to expand their programs, and most will because it's such a good deal. Still not sure how this in any way points to a conspiracy on Roberts's part to, in some vague future, slowly strangle something he could have killed outright today.

I think this means several states are going to get blindsided.

Because they won't be forced, several Tea states will refuse the increase. That will work for one, maybe two years. Then two sets of pressure will be exposed.

Pressure one is obvious: all the people who can't get coverage in the Tea state but can get it in other (coffee?) states. People do move over issues like that. (Indirect effect: those people will eventually get jobs, which means they'll increase the wealth of their states.) The people who can't (or won't) move will be loud about "why is that state able to do this when we can't?"

Pressure two is not so obvious. That's coming from the hospitals that are still having to do indigent emergency care. The coffee states' hospitals would be getting paid - not much (it's medicaid) but still getting paid. The tea state hospitals would be bleeding money.

One possible end run happens if the disparity is large enough for long enough. That's for the federal government to take over all of medicaid instead of the current federal/state partnership. Fans of that idea should be aware that states get to spend some of the money on admin costs, and they might fight hard not to lose those dollars.

183 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 5:05:09pm

re: #176 goddamnedfrank

Good airflow tho'. Betting he doesn't snore.

Yah, what a benefit! You still have to look at him!

184 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 5:05:41pm

re: #177 allegro

Imagine what happens when he sneezes. Wouldn't wanna be standing next to him.

EWE

185 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 5:07:35pm

re: #179 Renaissance_Man

I'm still not a John Roberts fanboy. I'm not a lawyer, but I talk a lot with friends who are, and who are extremely conservative (albeit by foreign standards) to boot. Even they continually scratch their heads over Citizens United. Really, Chief Justice? Corporations are people, really? Today's verdict strikes me very much as being motivated by something other than a desire to find constitutionality or accurately interpret the law. I'm not sure we see all the ramifications of this decision yet.

On another note, it is extraordinary how far the Overton Window has shifted that lefties are now cheering for a policy initially conceived by the Heritage Foundation.

Would I rather have single payer? Absolutely. Still, I'm pleased by even incremental progress. I don't have to remember that far back when I couldn't get private insurance because I'd previously been diagnosed with hypertension, and then ended un in the ICU with a BP of 220/180 (not a typo.)

I don't suddenly have rose colored glass on with regards to Roberts. He's inconsistent, shifty and lacking in ideological integrity. Yet the dick in me will always appreciate a quality mind fuck, and he certainly pulled one off today.

186 Renaissance_Man  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 5:07:36pm

re: #181 freetoken

Agree too with your observation of how far discussions have moved if so-called progressives are championing an anti-universal health care "solution" proposed by corporate advocates.

Totally. But look, it's baby steps. This mandatory private health insurance thing is rubbish, and so much is obvious to anyone who objectively examines health care. But it has to start somewhere, and the US is so pathologically and comically committed to selling itself to large corporations against its best interests that any step in the right direction should be a positive one.

187 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 5:09:20pm

re: #179 Renaissance_Man

I'm still not a John Roberts fanboy. I'm not a lawyer, but I talk a lot with friends who are, and who are extremely conservative (albeit by foreign standards) to boot. Even they continually scratch their heads over Citizens United. Really, Chief Justice? Corporations are people, really? Today's verdict strikes me very much as being motivated by something other than a desire to find constitutionality or accurately interpret the law. I'm not sure we see all the ramifications of this decision yet.

On another note, it is extraordinary how far the Overton Window has shifted that lefties are now cheering for a policy initially conceived by the Heritage Foundation.

I'm computer impaired at the moment (relying on this site for the latest) but I heard glimpses on NPR that Roberts did the switch late in the game & Kennedy(?) Is pissed. Any info?

188 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 5:11:49pm

re: #187 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012

I'm computer impaired at the moment (relying on this site for the latest) but I heard glimpses on NPR that Roberts did the switch late in the game & Kennedy(?) Is pissed. Any info?

If true it supports my theory that for Kennedy it's largely become about his ego, that he really relishes his role as "the Decider." Roberts took that away from him today.

189 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 5:11:51pm

re: #182 kirkspencer

I think this means several states are going to get blindsided.

Because they won't be forced, several Tea states will refuse the increase. That will work for one, maybe two years. Then two sets of pressure will be exposed.

Pressure one is obvious: all the people who can't get coverage in the Tea state but can get it in other (coffee?) states. People do move over issues like that. (Indirect effect: those people will eventually get jobs, which means they'll increase the wealth of their states.) The people who can't (or won't) move will be loud about "why is that state able to do this when we can't?"

Pressure two is not so obvious. That's coming from the hospitals that are still having to do indigent emergency care. The coffee states' hospitals would be getting paid - not much (it's medicaid) but still getting paid. The tea state hospitals would be bleeding money.

One possible end run happens if the disparity is large enough for long enough. That's for the federal government to take over all of medicaid instead of the current federal/state partnership. Fans of that idea should be aware that states get to spend some of the money on admin costs, and they might fight hard not to lose those dollars.

Interesting rope-a-dope.

190 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 5:14:27pm

re: #182 kirkspencer

I think this means several states are going to get blindsided.

Because they won't be forced, several Tea states will refuse the increase. That will work for one, maybe two years. Then two sets of pressure will be exposed.

Pressure one is obvious: all the people who can't get coverage in the Tea state but can get it in other (coffee?) states. People do move over issues like that. (Indirect effect: those people will eventually get jobs, which means they'll increase the wealth of their states.) The people who can't (or won't) move will be loud about "why is that state able to do this when we can't?"

Pressure two is not so obvious. That's coming from the hospitals that are still having to do indigent emergency care. The coffee states' hospitals would be getting paid - not much (it's medicaid) but still getting paid. The tea state hospitals would be bleeding money.

One possible end run happens if the disparity is large enough for long enough. That's for the federal government to take over all of medicaid instead of the current federal/state partnership. Fans of that idea should be aware that states get to spend some of the money on admin costs, and they might fight hard not to lose those dollars.

I'm really glad that the decision came down this way. If the carrot/stick provision were left in place it might have been better for liberals politically as poor red staters got cut off entirely simply to feed Republican orthodoxy. However a lot of innocent people would have been hurt badly by that.

191 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 5:22:22pm

re: #178 abolitionist

I just finished making exactly this change. Realized all the multiplications by 2 could be eliminated. Yep, it works.

192 abolitionist  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 5:25:07pm

re: #191 Charles Johnson

All? Thot you'd still need one.

193 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 5:26:11pm

re: #192 abolitionist

All but one, that is.

194 wrenchwench  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 5:30:53pm

I'd like to donate my updings from today to Twitter. I don't deserve them. Oh, wait, I 'curated' those Tweets. I'll take 50%.

195 freetoken  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 5:32:12pm
196 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 5:35:13pm

re: #181 freetoken

Which is why so many right wing pundits are looking for ulterior motives in Roberts' decision. Lots of speculation going on.

Agree too with your observation of how far discussions have moved if so-called progressives are championing an anti-universal health care "solution" proposed by corporate advocates.

I see it as a willingness by the progressives to settle for "progress" and not simply demand the whole pie right now and temper tantrum when it's not handed to them. ACA is not universal health care, but it's a positive step in that direction and in getting health coverage for everyone.

197 allegro  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 5:37:21pm

re: #196 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

I see it as a willingness by the progressives to settle for "progress" and not simply demand the whole pie right now and temper tantrum when it's not handed to them. ACA is not universal health care, but it's a positive step in that direction and in getting health coverage for everyone.

Considering how difficult it was to get this, I'd say that it is still a big fucking deal.

198 freetoken  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 5:43:18pm

U.S. Air Force faces growing sex scandal

The US Air Force said Thursday at least 31 female cadets were victims of alleged sexual assault by military instructors in a widening scandal at the service’s training command.

General Edward Rice, commander of Air Education and Training Command, said authorities are investigating 12 male training instructors for suspected sexual misconduct at Lackland Air Force Base near San Antonio, Texas.

[...]

I doubt that those 12 instructors told their victims they were trying to blow the Holy Spirit into the recipients, though.

199 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 5:43:38pm

re: #188 goddamnedfrank

If true it supports my theory that for Kennedy it's largely become about his ego, that he really relishes his role as "the Decider." Roberts took that away from him today.

Well he asserted his Chief stature. Heh

200 Talking Point Detective  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 5:46:41pm

re: #187 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012

I'm computer impaired at the moment (relying on this site for the latest) but I heard glimpses on NPR that Roberts did the switch late in the game & Kennedy(?) Is pissed. Any info?

I'm still thinking it could have been a rope-a-dope.

Set precedent on the commerce clause. Give Repubs a campaign platform w/r/t "Obama's health insurance tax."

It's just really hard to believe that he decided on principle.

201 freetoken  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 5:48:41pm

re: #200 Talking Point Detective

... Give Repubs a campaign platform w/r/t "Obama's health insurance tax."

This story crawled across my screen with the "Conservatives' Health-care Victory" tag:

Romney Rakes in Money After Supreme Court Ruling on Health Care

202 Talking Point Detective  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 5:49:10pm

re: #190 goddamnedfrank

I'm really glad that the decision came down this way. If the carrot/stick provision were left in place it might have been better for liberals politically as poor red staters got cut off entirely simply to feed Republican orthodoxy. However a lot of innocent people would have been hurt badly by that.

I just keep coming back to that bottom line.

I was talking with a friend who explained that he had expected the decision to go the other way, and constructed a total theory for why it would have been a good thing.

In some sense it may have been - but people would have seriously been squeezed, and that is the bottom line.

203 freetoken  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 5:50:39pm

What's good for the goose is not good for the foody:

Foie gras lovers scrambling as California ban nears

204 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 5:52:14pm

Republicans are Charlie Brown. Roberts is Lucy with the football.

205 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 5:53:13pm

re: #194 wrenchwench

I'd like to donate my updings from today to Twitter. I don't deserve them. Oh, wait, I 'curated' those Tweets. I'll take 50%.

Crazy lol's all day. Muchas gracias!

206 wrenchwench  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 5:55:56pm

re: #205 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012

Crazy lol's all day. Muchas gracias!

Here's one more. Not so funny this time.

207 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 5:58:50pm

re: #195 freetoken

How San Diego Elected a 'Birther' Judge

I was misinformed to think he faced a runoff in november? He's on the bench? Oh holy shit. True definition that politics is local and you damned better pay attention.

208 CuriousLurker  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 5:58:59pm

re: #185 goddamnedfrank

Would I rather have single payer? Absolutely. Still, I'm pleased by even incremental progress. I don't have to remember that far back when I couldn't get private insurance because I'd previously been diagnosed with hypertension, and then ended un in the ICU with a BP of 220/180 (not a typo.)

I don't suddenly have rose colored glass on with regards to Roberts. He's inconsistent, shifty and lacking in ideological integrity. Yet the dick in me will always appreciate a quality mind fuck, and he certainly pulled one off today.

Heh, you don't always say a lot, but when you do it almost always makes me either rethink what I thought before (assuming I understand it—sometimes it's way over my head) or giggle due to your unvarnished honesty. Watch that hypertension 'cause I want you to be around for a good long while, okay? ;)

Oh, and remind me never to pick a fight with you!

209 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 5:59:00pm

re: #203 freetoken

What's good for the goose is not good for the foody:

Foie gras lovers scrambling as California ban nears

It's not as bad as it seems. The ban only applies to force fed livers. There is "ethical" Foie gras from ducks and geese who instinctually gorge themselves on nuts and grains in the fall.

210 freetoken  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:01:05pm

re: #209 Killgore Trout

Today foie gras... tomorrow ...???

What's next - no incandescent light bulbs? No soda-pop? Where does this tyranny end?

Give be duck fat, or give me death.

211 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:02:30pm

re: #210 freetoken

Passes Freetoken & KT a candied walnut apiece.
Candy & nuts! LOL!

212 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:03:15pm

I've been reading up on parasitic wasps to solve my white fly problem in the greenhouse. I noticed that most of the miscellaneous you see going about their business in the average garden are actually various parasitic wasps. I never paid much attention to them before but now that I know what they are it's really fascinating.

213 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:05:13pm

re: #212 Killgore Trout

Pinguiculas. They are of the Sundew family, and are carniverous plants.

214 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:05:30pm

re: #210 freetoken

Today foie gras... tomorrow ...???

What's next - no incandescent light bulbs? No soda-pop? Where does this tyranny end?

Give be duck fat, or give me death.

Agreed. I hate these soda taxes, food bans, transfat bans, etc. We do have a seriously dysfunctional relationship with food in this country but I detest government enforced social engineering.

215 freetoken  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:06:56pm

It strikes me as strange that our society chatter is more about who's beating whom in popularity rather than stepping back and looking at what makes life better (happier, more fulfilling).

Are we really so concerned with our place in the pecking order? We act just like monkeys when it comes to fighting for place in the grooming hierarchy.

216 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:08:20pm

re: #214 Killgore Trout

Agreed. I hate these soda taxes, food bans, transfat bans, etc. We do have a seriously dysfunctional relationship with food in this country but I detest government enforced social engineering.

The history of government, and especially that in the US, is fraught with attempts at enforced social engineering.

217 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:08:27pm

re: #213 Dancing along the light of day

Pinguiculas. They are of the Sundew family, and are carniverous plants.

I might give them a try is the parasitic wasps don't work out. The ecosystem in the greenhouse is still stabilizing. I did use some lady bugs but I feel bad because they don't last long between the spiders and Zoe the Kitteh.

218 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:09:35pm

re: #206 wrenchwench

Here's one more. Not so funny this time.

[Embedded content]

That's pretty low even for Drudge. Gotta love all the conservatives attacking Roberts for daring to make a ruling that doesn't please them. They wanted a strict constructionist. Well they got one who made his ruling here based on what he thought was constitutional.

219 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:11:55pm

re: #216 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

The history of government, and especially that in the US, is fraught with attempts at enforced social engineering.

It is, in part, a regular function of government. I'm wary but not fundamentally opposed to the concept. But with food issues Foie gras is pretty low on the list.

220 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:13:20pm

re: #215 freetoken

It strikes me as strange that our society chatter is more about who's beating whom in popularity rather than stepping back and looking at what makes life better (happier, more fulfilling).

Are we really so concerned with our place in the pecking order? We act just like monkeys when it comes to fighting for place in the grooming hierarchy.

Yes, embrace your inner monkey and accept your place in the hierarchy.

221 wrenchwench  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:13:48pm

re: #218 HappyWarrior

That's pretty low even for Drudge. Gotta love all the conservatives attacking Roberts for daring to make a ruling that doesn't please them. They wanted a strict constructionist. Well they got one who made his ruling here based on what he thought was constitutional.

If money can't buy everything, their life plan doesn't look so smart. They hate when that happens. They got a standup guy like W in the White House, he made a good appointment and got it through the senate, but they still don't own Roberts. Ruined their day, maybe the weekend too.

222 freetoken  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:14:02pm

re: #220 Killgore Trout

My fleas need picked.

223 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:14:16pm

re: #208 CuriousLurker

Heh, you don't always say a lot, but when you do it almost always makes me either rethink what I thought before (assuming I understand it—sometimes it's way over my head) or giggle due to your unvarnished honesty.

Thanks.

Watch that hypertension 'cause I want you to be around for a good long while, okay? ;)

I do. It's 110/70 now and I take the meds very seriously. They're one of the few items I actually stash in case of emergency, have a two year supply saved right now.

The hypertension is inherited from my Dad, we both watch our sodium intake and diet, no known cause. I'm slightly on the plus side weight wise, but nothing that explains hitting 220/180. It hit and escalated fast too, and right at the worst time in my life, soon after my divorce was finalized. That's how I lost my previous insurance coverage and by the time I'd gotten my shit together I couldn't qualify for anything on my own. The crisis wiped me out financially, which wasn't hard, so I got myself certified indigent and let Santa Barbara county take care of me.

This is why the healthcare debate is so personal for me, I've been at the bottom. I've had a social worker. I've stood in line with the poorest of the poor at the county clinic. I've been a financial parasite on society and carry zero shame because that's what kept me alive and prevented me from being crushed forever under ridiculous amounts of medical debt. The experience was also invaluable in letting me see the true faces of many people in my life, taught me who I could trust and who I couldn't.

Oh, and remind me never to pick a fight with you!

I don't get in fights with ex-cab drivers. A man's got to know his limitations.

224 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:14:58pm

re: #222 freetoken

My fleas need picked.

Parasitic wasps.

225 EdDantes  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:16:33pm

re: #222 freetoken

My fleas need picked.

You can pick your fleas but you can't pick you relatives.

226 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:17:57pm

re: #219 Killgore Trout

It is, in part, a regular function of government. I'm wary but not fundamentally opposed to the concept. But with food issues Foie gras is pretty low on the list.

I think it got picked on due to how the goose is treated. Force-feeding them in order to produce an engorged and fatty liver as a delicacy can easily be viewed as an unnecessary (and barbaric) luxury.

227 Obdicut  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:18:41pm

re: #215 freetoken

Sapolsky's research has shown you can have an altruistic, happy, harmonious group of primates. Not just the bonobos, but baboons can achieve this state if there's something which kills off all the hyper-macho dicks. In his case, it was the hyper-macho guys eating garbage and getting TB. But the cool thing is that afterwards, when a new hyper-macho male arrived, they got socialized to be nice and altruistic and non-aggressive. So it self-perpetuates. Likewise, some gorilla packs are much more docile and non-combative than other ones, and it again appears to be a social thing.

A lot of the time, people are ignorant about the way animals work and think, when observing one 'society' of a particular species, that they can generalize from that one. It's not true. Societal relationships are not hardwired genetically; that wouldn't even make sense. Our genetics are a landscape on which societal shit gets played out, but even the higher primates have varieties of that society.

228 Obdicut  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:21:11pm

re: #223 goddamnedfrank

I forget, where do you live?

229 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:24:00pm

re: #228 Obdicut

I forget, where do you live?

Simi Valley.

Don't tell anyone.

230 Obdicut  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:26:03pm

re: #229 goddamnedfrank

If I have to do an overnight at Burbank (which I try my best to avoid, because fuck Burbank) I'll come out there and buy you a drink.

231 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:26:34pm

re: #230 Obdicut

If I have to do an overnight at Burbank (which I try my best to avoid, because fuck Burbank) I'll come out there and buy you a drink.

Sweet!

232 CuriousLurker  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:32:46pm

re: #223 goddamnedfrank

That 220/180 made my eyes bug out. I'm really glad you take it seriously. {{goddamnedfrank}}

What an awful time of it you had. I've been in the same situation, though not for medical reasons. Dealing with the various government agencies (not ot mention people's sometimes shitty attitudes) can be incredibly stressful, which only compounds the stress you're already under over the disaster your life/health has become. It sucks, and is one of the things that makes me despise the selfish, callous attitude of a lot of the wingnuts.

When I lived in NYC there were always a lot of homeless people in the streets. They kind of invisible to everyone in their misery, like ghosts. But to me they were more like Dickens' Ghost of Christmas Future...y'know, like there but for the grace of God... All it takes is one unforeseen disaster, one war, one catastrophic illness or injury, and any one of us could find ourselves in the same shoes.

233 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:06:28pm

re: #232 CuriousLurker

That 220/180 made my eyes bug out. I'm really glad you take it seriously. {{goddamnedfrank}}

As a number it's pretty crazy, but I have a theory that men in my Dad's line kind of co-evolved with increasing BP in their 30's, so that they could survive for as long as possible. Good arteries, etc. I got really lucky, no lingering after effects or problems.

What an awful time of it you had. I've been in the same situation, though not for medical reasons. Dealing with the various government agencies (not ot mention people's sometimes shitty attitudes) can be incredibly stressful, which only compounds the stress you're already under over the disaster your life/health has become.

Again, I was really lucky. One thing that really helped was that a cardiologist that saw me in the hospital decided to make a personal project out of me. He came in on the day I was to be discharged and said he disagreed with the hospitals push to get me out and that he would see me free for a year. He really advocated hard for me to get certain tests and wrote scripts that I could take to the county clinic and have cosigned by the doctors there for care they wouldn't normally provide. For instance I managed to get the County to pay for a nuclear MIBG scintiscan just to make sure I didn't have a pheochromocytoma, that must have been fantastically expensive.

Anyway, I think I also had a really positive attitude about things, and was happy to settle down to a layer of pure truth. Having the masks get ripped off of self centered, emotionally unsupportive people like my Mom and Stepdad allowed me to move into a phase where I could just pity them and focus on the good people in my life.

Also, it came naturally to me but I always tell people to treat their nurses with complete and total respect, they deserve it. That makes a huge amount of difference in terms of how good a time you're going to have in the hospital.

It sucks, and is one of the things that makes me despise the selfish, callous attitude of a lot of the wingnuts.

Yeah, it's a huge piss off. One I still obviously struggle with handling gracefully.

When I lived in NYC there were always a lot of homeless people in the streets. They kind of invisible to everyone in their misery, like ghosts. But to me they were more like Dickens' Ghost of Christmas Future...y'know, like there but for the grace of God... All it takes is one unforeseen disaster, one war, one catastrophic illness or injury, and any one of us could find ourselves in the same shoes.

It's all about empathy.

234 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:13:23pm

re: #208 CuriousLurker

Heh, you don't always say a lot, but when you do it almost always makes me either rethink what I thought before (assuming I understand it—sometimes it's way over my head) or giggle due to your unvarnished honesty. Watch that hypertension 'cause I want you to be around for a good long while, okay? ;)

Oh, and remind me never to pick a fight with you!

Haven't hit refresh, so I may be far behind, but my first exposure to GDF was the hilarious way a banned lizz: Mandy was offended, oh so christany offended by his name. Dang if she wouldn't post greenwood in retaliation. Ah, cray times!

235 CuriousLurker  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:17:03pm

re: #233 goddamnedfrank

Wow, you were lucky! What a story. I'm glad you had good people in your life and were able to move past the others without being bitter.

Ah, nurses. Fortunately, I've never had to spend much time in hospitals, but I don't doubt that they're seriously under-appreciated by far too many. I could never in a million years do their job.

It's all about empathy.

QFT

236 CuriousLurker  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:17:35pm

re: #234 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012

Haven't hit refresh, so I may be far behind, but my first exposure to GDF was the hilarious way a banned lizz: Mandy was offended, oh so christany offended by his name. Dang if she wouldn't post greenwood in retaliation. Ah, cray times!

ROFL!!

237 Gus  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 7:39:25am

Test

238 Gus  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:10:58am

Test

239 Gus  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:12:03am

Log Out isn't even working now.

Good old freaking Firefox.

240 Neo_  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 2:19:07pm

From the Congressional Record [Page: H4409]:

From the beginning, ATF was transparent about its strategy. An internal ATF briefing paper used in preparation for the OCDETF application process explained as much:

Currently our strategy is to allow the transfer of firearms to continue to take place, albeit at a much slower pace, in order to further the investigation and allow for the identification of co-conspirators who would continue to operate and illegally traffic firearms to Mexican DTOs which are perpetrating armed violence along the Southwest Border.

The plan was to allow agents to track criminal networks by finding the guns at crime scenes.

241 wrenchwench  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 2:39:20pm

re: #240 Neo_

From the Congressional Record [Page: H4409]:

From the beginning, ATF was transparent about its strategy. An internal ATF briefing paper used in preparation for the OCDETF application process explained as much:

Currently our strategy is to allow the transfer of firearms to continue to take place, albeit at a much slower pace, in order to further the investigation and allow for the identification of co-conspirators who would continue to operate and illegally traffic firearms to Mexican DTOs which are perpetrating armed violence along the Southwest Border.

The plan was to allow agents to track criminal networks by finding the guns at crime scenes.

I know you dumped this here and logged out, but in case you come back: When they say 'allow the transfer of firearms', they mean they will continue to be sold, which they couldn't stop anyway.

242 Gus  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 3:34:36pm

test

243 Gus  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 3:36:43pm

Same thing. Posting takes me to the top after causing a reload. Can't log out using the button here.

Twitter embeds look like text.

Uninstalled Firefox and Java including cleaning of directories and registry and subsequently reinstalled Firefox and Java.


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