The Giant Breitbart Awakes

A day of epic butthurt evokes a potent right wing meme
Wingnuts • Views: 45,065

Earlier today, while observing wingnut reactions to the Supreme Court’s decision, I noticed a meme rapidly gaining strength in the right wing hivemind:

The sleeping giant meme spread rapidly through the online wingnut communities, as they realized that the Supreme Court had just committed the unforgivable crime of giving them guaranteed health care. Hence, awakened giant.

And tonight, the Sleeping Giant Meme is the top story at breitbart.com: OBAMACARE DECISION WAKES SLEEPING CONSERVATIVE GIANT!

And for extra butthurt schadenfreude goodness, don’t miss Ben Shapiro’s plaintive wail: NOW IT’S UP TO YOU.

The myth is finished. The Constitutional order was shredded long ago by a Congress that does not care about upholding it; an executive branch interested only in growing federal power; and a Supreme Court that sees itself as a super-Congress, unanswerable to the Constitution.

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656 comments
1 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:22:04pm

And the page top ad is for Lysteda... (smirk)

2 Obdicut  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:23:23pm

So all the whining, conspiracy theories, all the lies and the threats, that all came from people who were asleep?

That's some issues, man. I knew someone once who slept angry. He came to a sticky end.

3 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:23:55pm

He's dead, Jim.

4 wrenchwench  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:24:11pm

Wait, I thought they did an autopsy and everything...

5 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:25:13pm

I invite the Right and the GOP to bring up "Obamacare" as often and as loudly as possible and keeping pushing for its repeal. Because all they're going to do is keep inviting the same question in return: "What will you replace it with?" And the following silence will be all that matters.

6 jaunte  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:25:15pm

They seem to have been flogging this giant for a while now:

August 13th, 2009:
I saw this live on MSNBC Tuesday morning. Katy Abram, a 35 year-old stay-at-home mom reading from a list of inane talking points, angrily berated Senator Arlen Specter at a town hall meeting at Lebanon, Pennsylvania in Sarah Palin “word salad” style. “We don’t want this country to turn into Russia,” Abram said, apropos of nothing. Also: “You have awakened a sleeping giant.” Then she tossed up some more word salad as she made the rounds on Faux News, CNN, Glenn Beck’s radio show and a memorable interview with Lawrence O’Donnell on “Hardball.”
[Link: oneutah.org...]

7 freetoken  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:30:03pm

Matt Lewis makes basically the same case in the latest Blogginheads:

[Link: bloggingheads.tv...]

8 EdDantes  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:31:24pm

The Roberts Health Care Act will be a major issue in November. I think Obama has gained a Pyrrhic victory and we will see, then, If there is a giant or just a vocal piss-ant.

9 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:32:21pm

re: #8 EdDantes

The Roberts Health Care Act will be a major issue in November. I think Obama has gained a Pyrrhic victory and we will see, then, If there is a giant or just a vocal piss-ant.

I'm curious as to why you consider it a Pyrrhic victory?

10 wrenchwench  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:33:42pm

No veep here:

Youtube Video
11 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:34:23pm

This just in: the giant Breitbart has been sighted laying waste to an Obama campaign office in Brentwood... developing...

12 bratwurst  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:36:02pm

After reading the headline, I couldn't help thinking:

Youtube Video
13 freetoken  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:38:46pm

re: #12 bratwurst

Or this one:

Youtube Video
14 EdDantes  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:39:05pm

re: #9 Targetpractice

I'm curious as to why you consider it a Pyrrhic victory?

It could work against him in November if the electorate decides it was not a good idea. He has his victory but it cost him his re election.

15 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:40:19pm

re: #14 EdDantes

It could work against him in November if the electorate decides it was not a good idea. He has his victory but it cost him his re election.

And you believe that a loss today would have helped him instead?

16 simoom  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:40:32pm

(AP) AG emails: Get to the bottom of Fast and Furious

For the past year and a half, some Republicans have promoted the idea that Holder and other top-level officials at the Justice Department knew federal agents in Operation Fast and Furious had engaged in a risky tactic known as "gun-walking."

Two of Holder's emails and one from Cole appear to show that they hadn't known about gun-walking but were determined to find out whether the allegations were true.

...

The emails by Holder and Cole followed a hurried assurance by the Justice Department on Feb. 4, 2011, to Sen. Chuck Grassley, the senior Republican on the Senate Judiciary Committee. No such tactic was used, the Justice Department said in a letter to Grassley. The U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives "makes every effort to interdict weapons that have been purchased illegally and prevent their transportation to Mexico," the letter added. The letter was based on incorrect assurances supplied to the Justice Department by the U.S. Attorney's office in Phoenix and by ATF officials. The department withdrew the Feb. 4 letter on Dec. 2, 2011, after documenting what had taken place not only in Operation Fast and Furious, but in three other gun-walking operations going back to 2006.

...

On Feb. 23, aides passed along to the attorney general the CBS story alleging gun-walking, and the attorney general shot back, "We need answers on this. Not defensive BS. Real answers."

Five days later, Holder asked the Justice Department's inspector general to investigate.

On March 3, Cole, the No. 2 official at the Justice Department, emailed his staff: "We obviously need to get to the bottom of this."
Holder was skeptical of any assurances.

"I hope the AG understands that we did not allow guns to walk," an official at the ATF's Washington headquarters said on March 10 in an email that Holder's aides forwarded to the attorney general.

In a response, Holder wrote, "Do they really, really know" that there was no gun-walking?

A day earlier, at Holder's instruction, the Justice Department had sent out a directive to the field reinforcing a longtime Justice Department policy against gun-walking. The directive said that agents must not allow guns to cross the border into Mexico.

Looks like Dems on the oversight comittee may be starting to leak too instead of just allowing Issa staffer leaks to control the narrative.

BTW, in the wake of F&F both the AZ U.S. Attorney and his chief prosecutor have been forced to resign.

17 EdDantes  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:40:49pm

re: #14 EdDantes

It could work against him in November if the electorate decides it was not a good idea. He has his victory but it cost him his re election.

Could cost, I meant.

18 kirkspencer  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:41:41pm

re: #14 EdDantes

It could work against him in November if the electorate decides it was not a good idea. He has his victory but it cost him his re election.

meh. I figure the like/dislike has been baked into the numbers already; that not many people are going to change their minds because this was confirmed.

19 Atlas Fails  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:42:18pm

BWHAHAHAHAHA!!!

20 aagcobb  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:43:34pm

re: #17 EdDantes

Could cost, I meant.

I don't think so; if Obama loses, it will be because of the economy. If the debate becomes about Obamacare, I think he wins, because people like its features, such as coverage for pre-existing conditions, and because Romney is uniquely ill-suited to combat it and he doesn't have any alternative to replace it with.

21 freetoken  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:43:47pm

"Conservatives" like their giants from the 1950's I suppose:

Youtube Video
22 EdDantes  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:43:49pm

re: #15 Targetpractice

It depends on what the voters think. If it had been overturned it would not be as large an issue in November. But, again it will depend on what the voters think about it.

23 Robert O.  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:46:38pm

GOP values:

Extending healthcare coverage to American citizens = bad
Invading countries on the false pretext of non-existent WDMs = good

Teaching kids scientific facts and reason = bad
Indoctrinating kids with religious fiction = good

24 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:46:48pm

re: #22 EdDantes

It depends on what the voters think. If it had been overturned it would not be as large an issue in November. But, again it will depend on what the voters think about it.

Every poll I've seen so far show that a majority of voters love the provisions of the ACA, just not the mandate. And the largest health insurance companies all said they'd keep many of those provisions going.

The problem, at least from where I sit, is that people are still operating on half-truths and outright lies about the Act itself. The Obama campaign needs to be out there telling folks that repealing it will end those provisions, with absolutely no guarantee that the GOP will revive them if elected.

25 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:47:41pm

Should be mentioned but many were against ACA because it didn't go far enough. There were many and I'd say I was among them would have preferred a public option to the mandate but there was no way the bill was passing without it. It's funny how a bill that was basically what Bob Dole proposed in the 90's and what Romney did as governor of Massachusetts has become associated with left wing radicalism. They talk about sleeping giants, well there are number of people who are thrilled that the Supreme Court upheld it because they know what it's like to be without insurance due to the conditions that the Republicans in the Congress would have no problems using as a pretext for not insuring someone.

26 EdDantes  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:50:27pm

re: #20 aagcobb

I don't think so; if Obama loses, it will be because of the economy. If the debate becomes about Obamacare, I think he wins, because people like its features, such as coverage for pre-existing conditions, and because Romney is uniquely ill-suited to combat it and he doesn't have any alternative to replace it with.

The economy is the #1 issue today and it will also be in November. Obamacare is an additional tax that many Americans are going to object to and it too is an economic issue.

27 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:51:30pm

re: #20 aagcobb

I don't think so; if Obama loses, it will be because of the economy. If the debate becomes about Obamacare, I think he wins, because people like its features, such as coverage for pre-existing conditions, and because Romney is uniquely ill-suited to combat it and he doesn't have any alternative to replace it with.

Exactly, Romney really has no credibility when it comes to criticizing the act. Hell he championed when he ran for president the first time. It was only when the President and his team started including provisions from ti that he being the opportunist that he is started to run away from it. Romney will no doubt talk about on the campaign trail how it needs to be repealed and Obama will use a similar line to the one that killed Kerry eight years ago- "He was for it before he was against it." And health care is one of many issues that one can do this to Romney with.

28 bluecheese  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:51:52pm

But wasn't the individual mandate a Republican idea to start with?

And didn't Bush43's plan to privatize social security involve a mandate to buy into the stock market?

I feel like a full government run health care system is the obvious best policy. Obama care is a shit compromise between conservative policy ideas, and corporate welfare.

These people are delusional.

29 freetoken  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:54:22pm

re: #26 EdDantes

As a "tax", by Nov 2012 it still will in large part not be in place, so it won't be realized in many voters' pocketbooks.

More people like the goodies in the ACA package than see it as a tax. I doubt it will cost Obama any net votes in Nov.

Matt Lewis was trying to make the case that this USSC decision will be like Roe v. Wade in that there will be an swell of political movement mojo towards "conservatives". I just don't see it. Those who have been raging ever since 2008 will continue to the rage. The rest of us will just go on.

30 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:54:29pm

re: #19 Atlas Fails

BWHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Oh Mean Jean.

31 engineer cat  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 6:54:50pm

the giant just seems like it's sleeping cuz it's so duuumb

32 Mocking Jay  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:00:22pm

re: #19 Atlas Fails

BWHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Holy crap people, improve your cell phone videos with one easy step.

TURN IT 90 DEGREES.

33 freetoken  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:00:57pm

re: #31 engineer cat

Reading comments at the usual wingnut sites indicate that the "giant" is pissing and moaning about the "feckless GOP", that they are not going to give the GOP another chance, etc. They're past blaming Obama and are now swirling around in self-pity.

34 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:00:59pm

I also think a lot of folks have been operating under a "Wait & See" policy, figuring that any major changes made prior to SCOTUS ruling on the matter would be foolish if it should be overturned. Now that SCOTUS has pretty much set it in stone, the real examination of what the Act will mean for the man on the street will begin.

35 Mocking Jay  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:02:33pm

The giant was in a diabetic coma brought on by too many sugary drinks and Paula Deen recipes. Only fitting that healthcare wakes it up...

36 EdDantes  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:03:50pm

re: #29 freetoken

As a "tax", by Nov 2012 it still will in large part not be in place, so it won't be realized in many voters' pocketbooks.

More people like the goodies in the ACA package than see it as a tax. I doubt it will cost Obama any net votes in Nov.

Matt Lewis was trying to make the case that this USSC decision will be like Roe v. Wade in that there will be an swell of political movement mojo towards "conservatives". I just don't see it. Those who have been raging ever since 2008 will continue to the rage. The rest of us will just go on.

You are counting on voter's being so shortsighted that they won't realize that there is a cost associated with it because it has not kicked in yet. That is very cynical but it also might be very true.

It is also possible that Romney will be the Republicans Alf Landon and Obama gains a second term. I'm with you in that I don't rage (much) and I will go on.

37 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:04:57pm

re: #26 EdDantes

The economy is the #1 issue today and it will also be in November. Obamacare is an additional tax that many Americans are going to object to and it too is an economic issue.

Many Americans also have adult children that they like being able to cover under their own insurance policies. Many voting age Americans are those children. Many Americans have pre-existing conditions and like the fact that their insurance market can no longer discriminate against them.

If the Obama campaign can effectively equate a Romney presidency with the repeal of these very popular policies that have already gone into effect then the simplistic Obamacare = bad argument will be a much harder sell.

38 EdDantes  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:05:11pm

Chief Justice Roberts and President Obama agree on something! What a sound!

39 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:05:13pm

I must be mistaken but I thought the 2010 midterms were the "sleeping giant." As I said, there are plenty of people who have since the bill has been passed and we've seen its effects realized that it's not the travesty that the Tea Party and GOP wanted to make it out be. I really think the bill's unknown qualities made it easy to scare people into voting against it. Plus we've seen how incompetent the Republicans are as a majority party in the House.

40 engineer cat  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:05:44pm

re: #28 bluecheese

But wasn't the individual mandate a Republican idea to start with?

And didn't Bush43's plan to privatize social security involve a mandate to buy into the stock market?

I feel like a full government run health care system is the obvious best policy. Obama care is a shit compromise between conservative policy ideas, and corporate welfare.

These people are delusional.

given that the free-markup multinational monster is so in control of the levers of power, the fact that "obamacare" was able to outlaw the practice of kicking people off of insurance and also to significantly increase subsidies for health care for poor people is a definite good thing, and doesn't deserve to be called "shit"

calling something "shit" when it moves significantly in the right direction despite the fact that a 500 lb monster is sitting in the middle of the road blocking real reform, to me this is nothing but the counsel of despair

we wouldn't even need health insurance if the costs hadn't been distorted out of all proportion by "free market" forces. health insurance was not at all common as recently as 50 years ago. we have so many problems in this area that it is wishful thinking to imagine that somebody could come along and get a reasonable system legislated into being. progressive congresspeople have been submitting bills for national healthcare a la canada or uk for decades, but powerful forces crush them immediately

41 engineer cat  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:06:20pm

re: #33 freetoken

Reading comments at the usual wingnut sites indicate that the "giant" is pissing and moaning about the "feckless GOP", that they are not going to give the GOP another chance, etc. They're past blaming Obama and are now swirling around in self-pity.

bwahahahaha!

(we need an eeevil laugh font)

42 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:07:24pm

They'll sell it as a tax increase. And then you can respond to that by showing that people have benefited. Bullshit like Reagan's mythical welfare queen won't be an easy sell as it was in the 80's.

43 Obdicut  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:07:33pm

re: #36 EdDantes

You are counting on voter's being so shortsighted that they won't realize that there is a cost associated with it because it has not kicked in yet. That is very cynical but it also might be very true.

Er, Ed. What is the cost of not passing the act?

The act lowers costs. It doesn't raise them. Why do you think otherwise?

44 EdDantes  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:08:31pm

re: #37 goddamnedfrank

Many Americans also have adult children that they like being able to cover under their own insurance policies. Many voting age Americans are those children. Many Americans have pre-existing conditions and like the fact that their insurance market can no longer discriminate against them.

If the Obama campaign can effectively equate a Romney presidency with the repeal of these very popular policies that have already gone into effect then the simplistic Obamacare = bad argument will be a much harder sell.

I agree entirely.All I have been doing is poking around a dead birds entrails trying to divine what will happen in November and I am stumpified. :)

45 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:08:33pm

re: #39 HappyWarrior

I must be mistaken but I thought the 2010 midterms were the "sleeping giant." As I said, there are plenty of people who have since the bill has been passed and we've seen its effects realized that it's not the travesty that the Tea Party and GOP wanted to make it out be. I really think the bill's unknown qualities made it easy to scare people into voting against it. Plus we've seen how incompetent the Republicans are as a majority party in the House.

Not to mention that, as I said above, there's no guarantee that the GOP will do anything once "Obamacare" is repealed. The old mantra used to be "Repeal and Replace," but they have no replacement, just empty promises of "patient-focused" and "market-based" reforms that are made of fairy dust and children's dreams. Obama needs to pound that home, again and again, to people saying they'd rather the whole thing be junked and they try again "from scratch."

46 EdDantes  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:09:51pm

re: #44 EdDantes

Dis I just create a neologism, ie "stumpified?"

47 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:10:47pm

re: #44 EdDantes

I agree entirely.All I have been doing is poking around a dead birds entrails trying to divine what will happen in November and I am stumpified. :)

Entrails, you say? And here this entire time, I thought tea leaves were the answer. Damn it all.

//

48 sagehen  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:12:03pm

re: #14 EdDantes

It could work against him in November if the electorate decides it was not a good idea. He has his victory but it cost him his re election.

2-3 years ago, he gave an interview where he was asked "what first term accomplishment would be important enough to you that you'd want to do it even if it costs you reelection?" (somebody with better google-fu than me should try to find this clip). He said "universal health care. If we get that done for real, in a way that will last, that would be worth losing the house, the senate, and reelection for myself."

GHWB lost reelection because he did what was needed to get the budget on track; to this day he feels it was the right thing to do and well worth losing his job.

This is the difference between a self-interested politician, and a statesman who puts his country ahead of himself.

49 engineer cat  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:16:59pm

"market-based" "law-of-the-jungle-based" reforms

50 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:17:13pm

re: #44 EdDantes

I agree entirely.All I have been doing is poking around a dead birds entrails trying to divine what will happen in November and I am stumpified. :)

I think that today Mitt Romney got completely robbed of a potentially very effective talking point by a Supreme Court that refused to do his dirty work for him. The ACA isn't unconstitutional, Obama doesn't have to defend having passed something that was struck down, he doesn't have to answer for utterly wasting resources in getting it passed. Today a few of the Act's provisions are better known, and so it's incrementally harder for some people to oppose them because they actually understand them.

Today was a net gain for the good guys, and Roberts' defection makes the purely partisan court argument that much more difficult to sell.

51 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:19:23pm

Email:
Important information from Kaiser Permanente

While political uncertainty still remains, we'll continue to be guided by our goals of providing high-quality care, great service, and affordability to our members and the communities we serve.

Lower my fucking premium, you ****s!

52 Obdicut  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:20:25pm

The House of Representatives has something like a 15% approval rating. Why do they think that holding Holder in contempt will have much of an effect? People don't like them or trust them.

53 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:20:54pm

Word filter is problematic: Can't tell if "fuks" or "Kunts". Needs work.

54 Mocking Jay  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:21:54pm

re: #51 Killgore Trout

Email:
Important information from Kaiser Permanente

Lower my fucking premium, you ****s!

If they're taking you for a ride you're supposed to get a refund thanks to Obamacare.

[Link: www.allvoices.com...]

55 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:22:10pm

And Romney has to move beyond platitudes soon. Repeal, destroy, and being not-Obama will not be enough once the conventions are over. And if the GOP national platform looks anything like the Texas one that will also handle the Obama campaign a lot of things to bring up.

56 sagehen  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:22:20pm

re: #50 goddamnedfrank

Today was a net gain for the good guys, and Roberts' defection makes the purely partisan court argument that much more difficult to sell.

And once conservatives have a chance to think about it, they're realize they actually won pretty big today too.

The commerce clause just hit a stone wall, there will be no more expansions. Federal spending to coerce State behavior can never again be retconned, a victory for state's rights. And the court's legitimacy has been so thoroughly shored up they're vaccinated against complaints of partisanship for at least 3-5 big right-wing moves in the next term.

57 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:24:06pm

re: #52 Obdicut

The House of Representatives has something like a 15% approval rating. Why do they think that holding Holder in contempt will have much of an effect? People don't like them or trust them.

Because if the one person on another board I've been "chatting" with is any indication, they've been convinced by the media that the only reason Obama would invoked Executive Privilege is because there's something to hide and the only way he can prove otherwise is by "total disclosure."

58 Obdicut  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:24:09pm

re: #56 sagehen

No. The things you're citing were dicta, they were not rulings.

59 engineer cat  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:26:21pm

re: #53 Killgore Trout

Word filter is problematic: Can't tell if "fuks" or "Kunts". Needs work.

should use double metaphone

60 Mentis Fugit  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:27:07pm

re: #32 It's a cookbook!

Holy crap people, improve your cell phone videos with one easy step.

TURN IT 90 DEGREES.

Just say NO to vertical video.

Youtube Video
61 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:27:55pm

re: #26 EdDantes

The economy is the #1 issue today and it will also be in November. Obamacare is an additional tax that many Americans are going to object to and it too is an economic issue.

Umm, the only people who would be at risk for being taxed are people who don't have health insurance, but most of those people will get health insurance under Obamacare since the law is designed for people who can't afford to get health insurance to be able to. The only people who would be hurt are people who can afford to get health insurance, but don't and just how many people do you think there are? I mean seriously, you do realize that most people who aren't insured are people who can't afford and this bill was designed for them. People paying the tax is not the goal of the law.

62 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:28:13pm

re: #6 jaunte

They seem to have been flogging this giant for a while now:

Well, that lady won her battle: Specter left the GOP to run as a Democrat, only to find the Dems didn't want someone whose loyalties changed with the seasons either. Pat Toomey, a far more conservative and reliable Republican, won the 2010 Senate election in the Keystone State. That does count as a win for those who wanted Specter replaced.

63 Mocking Jay  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:29:22pm

This is rich.

Romney “supported it on the state level. Which means if you didn’t like it in Massachusetts, you could move to another state,” Rubio said on Bloomberg Television. “What are people supposed to do? Leave the United States now because of Barack Obama’s brilliant idea to stick the IRS on millions of people? More importantly, the state of Massachusetts doesn’t have the IRS. The IRS will follow you. Do people understand what this means?”

Hear that? People who didn't like it could self-deport from Mitt Romney's Massachusetts. The circle is complete.

64 jaunte  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:29:58pm

re: #62 Dark_Falcon

Plus, the country hasn't turned into Russia, so everybody wins.

65 erik_t  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:30:08pm

re: #62 Dark_Falcon

Pat Toomey, a far more conservative and reliable Republican, won the 2010 Senate election in the Keystone State. That does count as a win for those who wanted Specter replaced.

Only for those who wanted Specter replaced by someone who believed in a functioning legislative branch of the federal government.

66 Obdicut  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:31:34pm

re: #63 It's a cookbook!

Heh. Somehow, I hear that read in this guy's voice.

Youtube Video
67 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:32:08pm

re: #63 It's a cookbook!

This is rich.

Hear that? People who didn't like it could self-deport from Mitt Romney's Massachusetts. The circle is complete.

Anywhere else worth moving to, like Canada already has real socialized medicine. The wingnuts have nowhere to go and no other country would have them anyway. I'm afraid we're stuck with them and they are stuck with ObamaCare.

68 Mocking Jay  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:32:42pm

re: #67 moderatelyradicalliberal

Anywhere else worth moving to, like Canada already has real socialized medicine. The wingnuts have nowhere to go and no other country would have them anyway. I'm afraid we're stuck with them and they are stuck with ObamaCare.

Somalia.

69 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:33:34pm

re: #68 It's a cookbook!

Somalia.

They have enough problems and don't want our wingnuts either.

70 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:34:14pm

re: #65 erik_t

Only for those who wanted Specter replaced by someone who believed in a functioning legislative branch of the federal government.

I still prefer Toomey to Specter. Specter was unreliable, whereas Tommey will vote the conservative line.

71 erik_t  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:34:48pm

re: #70 Dark_Falcon

I still prefer Toomey to Specter. Specter was unreliable, whereas Tommey will vote the conservative line.

Dependable > thoughtful.

I would never have guessed that this would be your viewpoint. GO TRIBE!

72 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:35:16pm

Repeal Is a Fantasy
by David Frum
Instead of the tradition excerpted quote I'll just put this here instead

Youtube Video
73 Mocking Jay  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:35:42pm

re: #70 Dark_Falcon

I still prefer Toomey to Specter. Specter was unreliable, whereas Tommey will vote the conservative line.

You deserve Romney.

74 jaunte  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:36:10pm

re: #72 Killgore Trout

Disco memories!

75 erik_t  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:36:28pm

re: #73 It's a cookbook!

You deserve Romney.

Romney is unreliable, while Santorum would vote the conservative line.

He deserves Santorum.

76 Mocking Jay  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:37:17pm

re: #75 erik_t

Romney is unreliable, while Santorum would vote the conservative line.

He deserves Santorum.

Pretty sure Romney will be whatever they want him to be.

77 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:38:03pm

For me it again comes back to this Big Government article from yesterday, which I posted this morning:

Tomorrow, at around 10:30am EDT, the Democrat-left-media complex will launch the most aggressive and sustained attack on the institution of the Supreme Court in the history of our Republic. When the Court throws out at least some portion of ObamaCare tomorrow, President Obama and his partisans on the left and in the media will effectively declare war on the third co-equal branch of government and seek, in every possible way, to undermine the legitimacy of the Court.

Many conservatives were just so incredibly cock sure that the Supremes were going to strike down ACA today that they just couldn't keep their goddamned mouths shut about it, wait and see. What the fuck is that about anyway, a need to set up an "I told you so," so badly, over an inherently unknowable situation, that people will risk any number of crow dinners?

So yeah, I'm enjoying the schadenfreude. I'm basking in radiant glow of conservative butthurt over erroneous predictions that should never have been made. I love the incoherent rage and badly articulated talking points of people who've essentially had the rug pulled out from under their know it all asses.

78 Mocking Jay  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:39:22pm

re: #77 goddamnedfrank

They need to be vociferous to collect their wingnut welfare. Being wrong doesn't affect their bottom line.

At all.

Seriously.

79 makeitstop  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:40:19pm

re: #39 HappyWarrior

I must be mistaken but I thought the 2010 midterms were the "sleeping giant."

That was a different sleeping giant.

The Republicans have a few, and every once in a while the Democrats wake one of them up.

80 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:41:23pm

re: #72 Killgore Trout

Repeal Is a Fantasy
by David Frum
Instead of the tradition excerpted quote I'll just put this here instead

[Embedded content]

Think this is where Frum hits it out of the park:

Fourth, Republicans will find the task of writing their "replace" law even more agonizing than the Democrats found original passage. The party has no internal consensus on what a replacement would look like. Worse, any replacement of the law's popular elements will require financing. But where is that money to come from? New taxes are unacceptable. The proceeds of "closing loopholes" are already spoken for—that's how President Romney has promised to finance his promise to cut the top rate of tax 28%. And he's also promised to increase defense spending.

81 Kragar  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:42:38pm

I wonder if any of them actually realize where the sleeping giant meme comes from.

82 Mocking Jay  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:43:31pm

re: #81 Kragar

I wonder if any of them actually realize where the sleeping giant meme comes from.

The Bible, of course.

/

83 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:45:54pm

re: #81 Kragar

I wonder if any of them actually realize where the sleeping giant meme comes from.

Gulliver's Travels or Admiral Yamamoto?

84 SpaceJesus  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:46:27pm

has the giant stopped gushing tears everywhere yet

85 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:46:40pm

Anything that wakes the TPs is a good thing. I miss the chaos they brought to the GOP. Can't let Occupy Podunk have all the fun.

86 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:47:38pm

re: #83 goddamnedfrank

Gulliver's Travels or Admiral Yamamoto?

Also a British reference to China about the time of the Opium Wars IIRC.

87 Kragar  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:49:29pm

re: #84 SpaceJesus

has the giant stopped gushing tears everywhere yet

It keeps saying behave yourself while it clutches its chest.

88 SpaceJesus  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:49:38pm

i'm about to go awaken a giant burrito, brb

89 jaunte  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:49:51pm

Yamamoto in the movies:

"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant."

Yamamoto in real life:

"A military man can scarcely pride himself on having 'smitten a sleeping enemy'; it is more a matter of shame, simply, for the one smitten. I would rather you made your appraisal after seeing what the enemy does, since it is certain that, angered and outraged, he will soon launch a determined counterattack."

90 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:50:35pm

re: #86 Decatur Deb

Also a British reference to China about the time of the Opium Wars IIRC.

Oops. Wiki credits it to Napoleon, still on China.

91 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:50:37pm

re: #83 goddamnedfrank

Gulliver's Travels or Admiral Yamamoto?

Has to be the former. Breitbart.com readers won't want to read a quote from Adm. Yamamoto, since to them its validity is reduced by the fact that he was yellow, not white.

/I'm not sure I'm kidding.

92 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:50:39pm

re: #80 Targetpractice

Think this is where Frum hits it out of the park:

Frumster rules.

93 ozbloke  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:51:21pm

Nowhere Else a steal for tourists

A road sign to Nowhere Else is a frequent target for thieves and souvenir hunters.

Elliston District Council CEO Mary Deakin said it had become an expensive problem for the council on Eyre Peninsula in South Australia.

"People sort of look at it and say 'Oh that'd be good to have hanging in the shed or up above the bar' or something like that, so they acquire it," she said.

"Over time it does become quite expensive."

Contrary to the name on the sign, the dirt road actually leads somewhere.

The road branches off the Flinders Highway near the coastal town of Sheringa and heads inland to Tooligie.

Ms Deakin said there was an historic reason for the name.

More.

94 Gus  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:56:01pm

So are the wingnuts still playing "fort"?

95 jaunte  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:57:47pm

re: #94 Gus

So are the wingnuts still playing "fort"?

Alamo, sounds like.

96 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:58:18pm

Maybe they mean Andre the Giant in the Princess Bride.

"Rest well and dream of large women."

97 engineer cat  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 7:59:49pm

maybe more like a sleeping jive-ant

98 Gus  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:01:55pm

re: #95 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Alamo, sounds like.

Don't these bozos realize that ACA already passed congress and was signed by the president in 2010? Most lower courts had been supporting it. That it made it to the SCOTUS was a bit of a long shot. There was no guarantee that it would be repealed. Basically speaking "thems the breaks" and people have to live with the SCOTUS decision. Then again we're talking about a group of folks that have been in a state of rage 24 hours a days seven days a week ever since election day, 2008.

99 erik_t  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:02:33pm

re: #98 Gus

Don't these bozos realize that ACA already passed congress and was signed by the president in 2010? Most lower courts had been supporting it. That it made it to the SCOTUS was a bit of a long shot. There was no guarantee that it would be repealed.

Libtardistan sure has a convoluted legal system.

/

100 Gus  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:06:16pm

re: #99 erik_t

Libtardistan sure has a convoluted legal system.

/

Exactly. Goofy little insults kind of go with "playing fort."

101 Gus  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:07:18pm

re: #89 jaunte

Yamamoto in the movies:

Yamamoto in real life:

"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant butthurt."

102 Kragar  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:07:20pm

In wingnut democracy, everyone has the freedom to vote for who they're told to by real patriots.

103 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:07:32pm

re: #95 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Alamo, sounds like.

Never fails to amaze me just how petty and bitter the far Right can be when they lose. These are people who, a day ago, were absolutely positive that they'd turn on the news at lunch time to find out that SCOTUS had done what they'd predicted for over a year and strike down the ACA, handing them the grand "victory" over Obama they long believed was coming. I got assured more than once yesterday by wingnuts that there was no way the court could uphold it, no way that it would survive, and the only question was whether it would die an immediate death or the hollowed-out shell be repealed in time for the election.

Now they're whining like scolded school children, throwing temper tantrums and swearing that they'll still "win" in the end.

104 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:07:35pm

re: #96 goddamnedfrank

Maybe they mean Andre the Giant in the Princess Bride.

"Rest well and dream of large women."

"Never pick a fight with an Obama when health care is on the line!"

//

105 Mocking Jay  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:09:39pm

Found this on a friend's feed.

Image: 523804_486466604712105_1558774557_n.jpg

106 b_sharp  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:09:49pm

re: #47 Targetpractice

Entrails, you say? And here this entire time, I thought tea leaves were the answer. Damn it all.

//

Hey, I was trying phrenology, with my cat.

107 Kragar  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:10:43pm

Judge Roberts, why are you smiling?
Because I know something you don't know.
What is that?
I am not right winging.

108 Gus  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:11:05pm

It's hilarious that the Republicans voted to hold AG Holder in contempt considering all the crap Democrats put up with during the Bush years. Pelosi always made an effort to avoid the very same garbage that Boehner and his partners in crime pulled today. Sometimes I wonder if the shoe is on the other foot will Democrats play nice once again. This is going to be a continuing behavior problem with Republicans who continually try to take down any Democratic Party president that sits in the White House. Things weren't going perfectly before 2010 but they were headed in the right direction. As soon as the Republicans and all of those Tea Party lunatics took over the House in 2010 DC has been in the toilet.

109 b_sharp  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:12:38pm

re: #76 It's a cookbook!

Pretty sure Romney will be whatever they want him to be.

A dancing pig?

110 Gus  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:13:24pm

re: #103 Targetpractice

Never fails to amaze me just how petty and bitter the far Right can be when they lose. These are people who, a day ago, were absolutely positive that they'd turn on the news at lunch time to find out that SCOTUS had done what they'd predicted for over a year and strike down the ACA, handing them the grand "victory" over Obama they long believed was coming. I got assured more than once yesterday by wingnuts that there was no way the court could uphold it, no way that it would survive, and the only question was whether it would die an immediate death or the hollowed-out shell be repealed in time for the election.

Now they're whining like scolded school children, throwing temper tantrums and swearing that they'll still "win" in the end.

Not only are they throwing temper tantrums a lot of them are "talking revolution." It's pathetic to watch these adult-children.

111 Kragar  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:13:36pm

re: #109 b_sharp

A dancing pig?

A state trooper, a barber, a cookie critic, anything you like.

112 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:13:58pm

re: #111 Kragar

A state trooper, a barber, a cookie critic, anything you like.

Cthulhu?

113 jaunte  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:14:10pm

re: #108 Gus

David Frum:

The outlook then: Even if Republicans win big in 2012, they will have to fight inch by bloody inch for changes they could have had for the asking in 2010. Truly, this is Waterloo—a Waterloo brought about by a dangerous combination of ideological frenzy, poor risk calculation, and a self-annihilating indifference to the real work of government.

114 Gus  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:14:27pm

Yo wingnuts! Want to start a revolution? Go for it! Knock yourselves out.

[Audience breaks into uproarious laughter.]

115 Kragar  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:14:51pm

re: #112 Targetpractice

Cthulhu?

Too ethnic.

116 Kragar  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:15:50pm

re: #114 Gus

Yo wingnuts! Want to start a revolution? Go for it! Knock yourselves out.

[Audience breaks into uproarious laughter.]

Its like they think all the armed services will join them en masse.

117 dragonath  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:15:53pm

When people start getting the rebates from the insurance companies, I think they're gonna feel pretty good about ACA.

Listening to the radio was really interesting today. On NPR this morning, there was some Cato guy totally losing it on air. Oooh wingnut tears!

118 b_sharp  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:15:57pm

re: #95 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Alamo, sounds like.

Tell her the US should now be able to keep up to Canada and Sweden.

119 Gus  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:16:19pm

re: #113 jaunte

David Frum:

The won't listen to Frum. Never had, and never will. The Republican Party is a lost cause. There is no doubt in my mind that the Republican Party will be history by the time the 22nd century rolls around. Especially given the changing demographics.

120 dragonath  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:17:05pm

And now the Republicans can run against Robertocare

/

121 jaunte  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:17:34pm

re: #119 Gus

They'll have to adapt, somehow.

122 Gus  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:17:39pm

re: #116 Kragar

Its like they think all the armed services will join them en masse.

They must think this the USA is somewhere in Latin America circa 1970s. They can hold their breath and wait for their imaginary military junta. We know that's what many of them dream of.

123 austin_blue  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:17:49pm

I don't know which surprises me more. That the individual mandate passed or that Roberts was the deciding vote,

Sorry I am so late in posting but it's been a busy day.

124 Eclectic Infidel  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:18:43pm

re: #99 erik_t

Libtardistan sure has a convoluted legal system.

/

It's all part of the conspiracy to royally f**k Republicans out of their liberties./

(I wasn't going to put in the sarc tag and then I realized that the stalker blog, in a regular moment of idiocy, might confuse the above sentence with something serious and real.)

125 Gus  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:20:02pm

And I'll huff, and I'll puff, and I'll Tweet my way through overturning Obamacare if it's the last thing I do! With my Twitchy Team and my Breitbart Clan I will take back America from this socialist president!!!!!

Derp.

126 b_sharp  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:20:03pm

re: #124 Eclectic Infidel

It's all part of the conspiracy to royally f**k Republicans out of their liberties.

Freedom to be an asshole has an irresistible pull.

127 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:20:19pm

re: #50 goddamnedfrank

Today was a net gain for the good guys, and Roberts' defection makes the purely partisan court argument that much more difficult to sell.

QFT

128 jaunte  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:21:40pm

The Real Winners

...In short, unless you belong to that tiny class of wealthy Americans who are insulated and isolated from the realities of most people’s lives, the winners from that Supreme Court decision are your friends, your relatives, the people you work with — and, very likely, you. For almost all of us stand to benefit from making America a kinder and more decent society.

But what about the cost? Put it this way: the budget office’s estimate of the cost over the next decade of Obamacare’s “coverage provisions” — basically, the subsidies needed to make insurance affordable for all — is about only a third of the cost of the tax cuts, overwhelmingly favoring the wealthy, that Mitt Romney is proposing over the same period. True, Mr. Romney says that he would offset that cost, but he has failed to provide any plausible explanation of how he’d do that. The Affordable Care Act, by contrast, is fully paid for, with an explicit combination of tax increases and spending cuts elsewhere.

129 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:21:49pm

re: #116 Kragar

Its like they think all the armed services will join them en masse.

They're convinced that the military hates Obama and his administration as much as they do, so much that the vast majority would willingly commit treason by supporting such "revolutionaries," and then install a government that said "patriots" approve of.

Somebody really should point out to them that military coups usually aren't supportive of democratic governments.

130 Gus  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:23:31pm

re: #129 Targetpractice

They're convinced that the military hates Obama and his administration as much as they do, so much that the vast majority would willingly commit treason by supporting such "revolutionaries," and then install a government that said "patriots" approve of.

Somebody really should point out to them that military coups usually aren't supportive of democratic governments.

Yeah. The Oath Keeper losers. You ever see such a sad group of freaks?

131 dragonath  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:25:26pm

Bo Biden was being interviewed on the local talk radio station. Maybe I'm being unfair, but it's refreshing to see a guy brought up in power and money and not be a total jerk about it.

He brought up something I didn't know about too-

Romney eyes vouchers for veterans

He revealed his policy on veteran's day, no less.

132 Kragar  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:28:31pm

re: #129 Targetpractice

They're convinced that the military hates Obama and his administration as much as they do, so much that the vast majority would willingly commit treason by supporting such "revolutionaries," and then install a government that said "patriots" approve of.

Somebody really should point out to them that military coups usually aren't supportive of democratic governments.

Plus, its not the 1800s. Its not like an army base in NC is nothing but native North Carolinians. Every unit is made up of people from all over the country. It won't work.

"LETS GO GET THOSE WEST COAST LIBERALS!"
"I'm from Cali, jack ass."

133 Gus  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:29:15pm

re: #123 austin_blue

I don't know which surprises me more. That the individual mandate passed or that Roberts was the deciding vote,

Sorry I am so late in posting but it's been a busy day.

Bush's fault.

//

134 Achilles Tang  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:31:10pm

The one thing in this that has been a puzzle to me from the beginning (of the hearings) is that Scalia "joke" about broccoli. I'm sure Scalia is not a fool, in every way, and whether it is broccoli or bacon (the analogy was a human requirement, food) there is such an obvious answer to that inane comment that I don't know why he said it.

Why didn't anyone point out to him (and presumably to all others stuck on the "commerce" clause) that nobody prices broccoli based on the age/sex/health of the customer. The analogy is invalid.

In fact, any public retailer HAS to sell broccoli to anyone that walks in from the street, at the same price as to anyone else, which is pretty much what ACA says insurers should do.

Did I miss something subtle or obvious?

135 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:32:26pm

re: #130 Gus

Yeah. The Oath Keeper losers. You ever see such a sad group of freaks?

Yeah, though usually they paint the Stars and Bars on their truck as part of their "heritage," proclaim that the Civil War was one of aggression waged by the dictator Lincoln, that it was really a "Second American Revolution" involving states fighting against the tyranny of the federal government, and that the "Real Constitution" died in Appomattox on May 9th, 1865.

136 Kragar  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:32:30pm

OHAI!

Youtube Video
137 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:33:34pm

re: #134 Achilles Tang

Short answer? Scalia had already made up his mind and was just fucking around with the Solicitor General because he could.

138 Gus  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:34:53pm

re: #134 Achilles Tang

The one thing in this that has been a puzzle to me from the beginning (of the hearings) is that Scalia "joke" about broccoli. I'm sure Scalia is not a fool, in every way, and whether it is broccoli or bacon (the analogy was a human requirement, food) there is such an obvious answer to that inane comment that I don't know why he said it.

Why didn't anyone point out to him (and presumably to all others stuck on the "commerce" clause) that nobody prices broccoli based on the age/sex/health of the customer. The analogy is invalid.

In fact, any public retailer HAS to sell broccoli to anyone that walks in from the street, at the same price as to anyone else, which is pretty much what ACA says insurers should do.

Did I miss something subtle or obvious?

Health Insurance and the Broccoli Test - NYTimes.com

139 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:37:08pm

re: #131 Be Zorch, Daddio

Bo Biden was being interviewed on the local talk radio station. Maybe I'm being unfair, but it's refreshing to see a guy brought up in power and money and not be a total jerk about it.

He brought up something I didn't know about too-

Romney eyes vouchers for veterans

He revealed his policy on veteran's day, no less.

For all the shit Biden gets for being a loose cannon, I think he's a commendable guy. Not surprised to see his son is a decent guy too. This is the first I've heard of that too. I think Romney would have complained about the GI Bill in 1945 knowing him.

140 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:38:01pm

Colbert showing the hyperbolic reactions to Roberts by many GOP congressmen. Not sure which I find more amusing Gingrey or Kingston.

141 Achilles Tang  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:38:12pm

re: #131 Be Zorch, Daddio

Romney says:

Sometimes you wonder, would there be some way to introduce some private sector competition, somebody else that could come in and say, you know each soldier gets X thousand dollars attributed to them and then they can choose whether they want to go on the government system or the private system and then it follows them, like what happens with schools in Florida where they have a voucher that follows them, who knows.

This is sounds like leadership?/

143 DesertDenizen  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:39:14pm

re: #104 Dark_Falcon

To quote one of Sully's readers:
He's weak. He yields too much. He gets rolled. He's a lightweight. He's inexperienced.

He wins.

Always.


I'm not sure it's ever a good idea to fight him. I get the impression he's playing 3d chess while the GOP is struggling to grasp tic-tac-toe.

144 jaunte  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:39:23pm

re: #140 HappyWarrior

Colbert showing the hyperbolic reactions to Roberts by many GOP congressmen. Not sure which I find more amusing Gingrey or Kingston.

[Link: twitpic.com...]

145 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:40:01pm

re: #142 Kragar

Republican Lawmaker Screams With Joy At False News Of Mandate Being Overturned

LOL

That's kind of scary. She seems genuinely joyful at the thought of her fellow Americans losing healthcare.

146 Kragar  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:41:06pm

re: #143 DesertDenizen

To quote one of Sully's readers:
He's weak. He yields too much. He gets rolled. He's a lightweight. He's inexperienced.

He wins.

Always.

I'm not sure it's ever a good idea to fight him. I get the impression he's playing 3d chess while the GOP is struggling to grasp tic-tac-toe.

The Formula

Youtube Video
147 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:41:26pm

re: #145 HappyWarrior

That's kind of scary. She seems genuinely joyful at the thought of her fellow Americans losing healthcare.

Of course not, she was just happy that the dreaded dictator Obama had been dealt such a momentous blow by the Supreme Court, stopping him from destroying all that is good and just about America.

148 Achilles Tang  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:41:31pm

re: #138 Gus

Yes that is the long answer, but I still don't see the comparison I made, between selective pricing depending on the customer in a retail setting.

149 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:43:39pm

Haha so humble that he'll never take credit for it.

150 dragonath  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:43:41pm

re: #139 HappyWarrior

Oh I love Biden. He has a kind of ... Walt Kelly sensibility about him. Like a mix of Albert the Alligator and P.T. Tammany.

He'd totally fit in, in the Okefenokee swamp.

151 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:44:20pm

re: #150 Be Zorch, Daddio

Oh I love Biden. He has a kind of ... Walt Kelly sensibility about him. Like a mix of Albert the Alligator and P.T. Tammany.

He'd totally fit in, in the Okefenokee swamp.

He'd fit right in at a family reunion here. Goofy, doesn't take himself too seriously, but also aware of the world around him.

152 Achilles Tang  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:44:25pm

re: #137 Targetpractice

Short answer? Scalia had already made up his mind and was just fucking around with the Solicitor General because he could.

While I didn't follow the arguments in depth, it is my understanding that the solicitor general was a poor choice for this case, win or not.

153 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:46:19pm

re: #131 Be Zorch, Daddio

Bo Biden was being interviewed on the local talk radio station. Maybe I'm being unfair, but it's refreshing to see a guy brought up in power and money and not be a total jerk about it.

He brought up something I didn't know about too-

Romney eyes vouchers for veterans

He revealed his policy on veteran's day, no less.

I will never, for the life of me, understand the GOP fascination with vouchers. I mean, I'm pretty sure I understand the "logic" behind it, namely if they suck away enough money from programs, they can convince people that there's no "need" for the programs and just eliminate them. But for a party that proclaims that it's all about "individual responsibility," they seem to believe that itemizing people's tax dollars will make them somehow more responsible. This from a party that launches "investigations" at the drop of a hat into whether food stamps are being traded for booze and EBT cards used to pay for lap dances.

154 Amory Blaine  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:46:34pm

Greetings all.

What a rare treat to not get kicked in the balls!!!

Thank you SCOTUS!!

155 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:48:11pm

re: #142 Kragar

Republican Lawmaker Screams With Joy At False News Of Mandate Being Overturned

LOL

I wish the camera had stayed on and captured her as the soul smothering reality set in.

Conan! What is best in life?

To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women.

156 Eclectic Infidel  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:48:34pm

re: #142 Kragar

Republican Lawmaker Screams With Joy At False News Of Mandate Being Overturned

LOL

Favorite comment:

J. H. · Top Commenter
I didn't realize that reptiles could squeal like that.

157 Achilles Tang  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:49:09pm

Midnight. Got to go.

158 Kragar  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:50:19pm

re: #155 goddamnedfrank

I wish the camera had stayed on and captured her as the soul smothering reality set in.

"hear the lamentation of the women, HEAR THE LAMENTATION OF THE WOMEN!"

Youtube Video
159 DesertDenizen  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:50:26pm

re: #146 Kragar

It strikes me as the political equivilent to Aikido or Judo. Make them work, suck them in, then redirect them somewhere they didn't expect to go or want to be.

160 jaunte  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:50:53pm

Health-care ruling's impact on Texans is complicated

What that decision means for Texas, where leaders have ardently opposed “Obamacare” despite the state’s sky-high rate of uninsured residents, is complicated, both by politics and by the state’s history of rejecting federal dollars.

The health reform law also dramatically expands Medicaid, which already makes up close to a quarter of Texas’ state budget, although the Supreme Court ruled that the federal government may not withhold Medicaid funds from states that reject the expansion — and the money that comes with it.

Derp:

Gov. Rick Perry led the way among Texas Republicans vowing to continue to fight in whatever ways they can find.

“Freedom was frontally attacked by passage of this monstrosity – the court utterly failed in his duty to uphold the Constitutional limits placed on Washington,” Perry said in a statement.

[Link: www.star-telegram.com...]

"Our freedoms has been attacked, in the front, and the Court, he's done failed."

161 engineer cat  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:52:38pm

100% USDA Court Certified CONSTITUTIONAL

bwahahahahahah

162 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:53:14pm

re: #160 jaunte

Health-care ruling's impact on Texans is complicated

[Link: www.star-telegram.com...]

"Our freedoms has been attacked, in the front, and the Court, he's done failed."

A guy who champions sodomy laws talking about the lost of freedom is pretty amusing.

163 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:54:09pm

I keep wondering when Buck or rwmofo are gonna show their sorry mugs and take a big bite of crow.

Course, I also find myself frequently wondering when humanity will achieve nuclear fusion. I figure the two events will be simultaneous.

164 dragonath  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:55:00pm

The google search results for "Obama roberts" are really funny right now. Some of the top results are:

News: After awkward start, Obama-Roberts relationship finds harmony... -MSNBC

Did Roberts Give in to Obama's Bullying? - Breitbart

John Roberts saves Obamacare: How does George W. Bush feel ... - Yahoo

Justice Roberts Demolished Obama In His Supreme Court -Businessinsider

That dog don't hunt anymore

165 Gus  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:56:36pm

re: #164 Be Zorch, Daddio

The google search results for "Obama roberts" is really funny right now. Some of the top results are:

News: After awkward start, Obama-Roberts relationship finds harmony... -MSNBC

Did Roberts Give in to Obama's Bullying? - Breitbart

John Roberts saves Obamacare: How does George W. Bush feel ... - Yahoo

Justice Roberts Demolished Obama In His Supreme Court -Businessinsider

That dog don't hunt anymore

Did Roberts Give in to Obama's Bullying? - Breitbart

Hahahaha! The Breitbots are nucking futs.

166 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:57:00pm

re: #164 Be Zorch, Daddio

The google search results for "Obama roberts" are really funny right now. Some of the top results are:

News: After awkward start, Obama-Roberts relationship finds harmony... -MSNBC

Did Roberts Give in to Obama's Bullying? - Breitbart

John Roberts saves Obamacare: How does George W. Bush feel ... - Yahoo

Justice Roberts Demolished Obama In His Supreme Court -Businessinsider

That dog don't hunt anymore

Heh I love the claims that Roberts was somehow bullied by Obama. The right's been using this man as the model conservative justice for the last few years and now he's too weak to be independent of a president? I don't think so and I say this as someone who generally disagrees with Roberts' judical philosophy but realizes he is in his own man.

167 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:57:32pm

I'm going to go off topic here and steal some of freetoken's thunder. I will never understand the compulsion some girls and women have for having immense wardrobes, and this next is a case of that being taken to an extreme:

Kardashians in all but name! Kendall and Kylie Jenner show Oprah around their designer crammed closets

Prepared to be envious, or perhaps appalled... depending on where you stand when it comes to profligate consumerism.

The youngest members of the Kardashian-Jenner family, Kendall and Kylie Jenner have allowed Oprah Winfrey to explore their closets for Oprah’s Next Chapter.

14 year-old Kylie’s wardrobe room is the real behemoth.

It's crammed with designer bags (including the Judith Leiber clutch she carried at sister Kim Kardashian’s wedding).

The signature shoe of her sisters, those Christian Louboutins so beloved of Kim, 31, in particular, are stacked up on racks.

Rails and rails of designer clothes surround them.

'She literally shops all the time,' Kendall, 16, herself wearing a coveted ellelauri dress, tells Winfrey, according to People magazine.


Here's a photo of the closet in question.

And the article's only comment:

Thank you DM, you too Oprah for showing us how the other 1% lives. I spend my hard earned money on food & groceries.

- Theresa, USA, 29/6/2012 01:04
Click to rate Rating 37

168 jaunte  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:59:15pm
169 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:59:28pm

re: #167 Dark_Falcon

I'm going to go off topic here and steal some of freetoken's thunder. I will never understand the compulsion some girls and women have for having immense wardrobes, and this next is a case of that being taken to an extreme:

Kardashians in all but name! Kendall and Kylie Jenner show Oprah around their designer crammed closets


Here's a photo of the closet in question.

And the article's only comment:

It's really not that different from those who have more than ten cars. Understand where you're coming form though.

170 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 8:59:31pm

re: #160 jaunte

Actually, the threat with hold federal funds in states do not increase Medicaid was the one thing that got thrown out.

171 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:00:19pm

re: #168 jaunte

[Embedded content]

It's never lupus.

/

172 Amory Blaine  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:02:40pm

dennis miller is butthurt.

173 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:02:57pm

re: #170 Dark_Falcon

Actually, the threat with hold federal funds in states do not increase Medicaid was the one thing that got thrown out.

We know. Everyone's pretty much cool with that. Even though it'll probably keep poor red staters from coming to their senses as quickly nobody wants to see them suffer due to their pig headed Republican State leadership.

174 makeitstop  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:03:56pm
Did Roberts Give in to Obama's Bullying? - Breitbart

And on every other day, Breitbrats and every other RWNJ site portray Obama as weak and ineffectual.

I wish they'd pick a damn narrative and stick with it.

175 Gus  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:05:21pm

re: #167 Dark_Falcon

Is that a closet from the 1970s? Seriously though. Looks kind of goofy and messy to me from a "high life" standpoint.

176 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:05:56pm

re: #174 makeitstop

And on every other day, Breitbrats and every other RWNJ site portray Obama as weak and ineffectual.

I wish they'd pick a damn narrative and stick with it.

Yeah I thought Obama was Jimmy Carter 2.0. I guess not. I think this one is particularly hilarious given the fact that Roberts ruled against Obama's pov in the Citizens United decision.

177 Gus  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:06:09pm

re: #174 makeitstop

And on every other day, Breitbrats and every other RWNJ site portray Obama as weak and ineffectual.

I wish they'd pick a damn narrative and stick with it.

Don't mind the Breitbots. They're just "playing fort."

//

178 dragonath  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:07:02pm

Yeah, I'm looking at the Breitbart article right now and it's pure conspiracy theory. Something about the word "we" being used in the dissent and how Roberts must have *bzt* OMG Obamatron Diktat Engage *bzt* been "persuaded" at a late stage.

But it does feature this well-formed coprolite in writing, right here:

It is correct that Chief Justice Roberts has tended to defer to Congress, as conservatives do--but while this opinion has the form of deference, in substance it is the opposite of deferential, rewriting Obamacare by judicial fiat.

Hahahahahahahaha. Yes!!

179 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:07:17pm

re: #174 makeitstop

And on every other day, Breitbrats and every other RWNJ site portray Obama as weak and ineffectual.

I wish they'd pick a damn narrative and stick with it.

I wonder how much hate mail Roberts gets inundated with in the next few days.

It's a shame automobiles don't run on derp, because I'm pretty sure he's struck a rich vein that'll be productive for a long, long time.

180 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:07:19pm

re: #174 makeitstop

And on every other day, Breitbrats and every other RWNJ site portray Obama as weak and ineffectual.

I wish they'd pick a damn narrative and stick with it.

How can you expect them to pick a narrative on Obama when they won't even do that with Charles? It's the exact same thing: George Orwell gave it the name "Doublethink". It allows wingnuts to hold to contradictory views at the same time. Point out the contradictions and they react by screaming at you.

181 Mocking Jay  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:08:29pm

re: #179 goddamnedfrank

I wonder how much hate mail Roberts gets inundated with in the next few days.

It's a shame automobiles don't run on derp, because I'm pretty sure he's struck a rich vein that'll be productive for a long, long time.

US Marshalls are going to be pretty busy I imagine.

182 celticdragon  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:08:55pm

re: #162 HappyWarrior

"Our freedoms has been attacked, in the front, and the Court, he's done failed."

A guy who champions sodomy laws talking about the lost of freedom is pretty amusing.

"Lost freedom" and "sodomy" in the same sentence sounds like quality fap material for Bryan Fischer. Gay bondage really, really gets the AFA types...ahem...motivated in a turgid, throbbing way that nothing else can manage.

183 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:09:19pm

re: #180 Dark_Falcon

How can you expect them to pick a narrative on Obama when they won't even do that with Charles. It's the exact same thing: George Orwell gave it the name "Doublethink". It allows wingnuts to hold to contradictory views at the same time. Point out the contradictions and they react by screaming at you.

Cognitive dissonance tends to be self-reinforcing.

184 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:09:46pm

re: #182 celticdragon

"Lost freedom" and "sodomy" in the same sentence sounds like quality fap material for Bryan Fischer. Gay bondage really, really gets them...ahem...motivated in a turgid, throbbing way that nothing else can manage.

Fischer is another one who has no room to talk about "the end of freedom" given his views.

185 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:10:35pm

re: #175 Gus

Is that a closet from the 1970s? Seriously though. Looks kind of goofy and messy to me from a "high life" standpoint.

No, its the closet of a teenage girl who is famous because her older half-sister became famous for being famous.

[insert clever witticism here, I've got nothing]

186 celticdragon  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:13:02pm

re: #181 It's a cookbook!

US Marshalls are going to be pretty busy I imagine.

I've been seeing a lot of death threats against the POTUS and the SCOTUS all day on wingnut forums. Bad, bad craziness.

On the upside, at one site I was assured that I am a libtard prostitute and that I should help restart the economy by working on my back. Nice to know that my customer base is that good.

187 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:14:36pm

re: #186 celticdragon

I've been seeing a lot of death threats against the POTUS and the SCOTUS all day on wingnut forums. Bad, bad craziness.

On the upside, at one site I was assured that I am a libtard prostitute and that I should help restart the economy by working on my back. Nice to know that my customer base is that good.

Nice people. Have to say if they're freaking out this bad over healthcare reform, it really makes me worry about what will happen should POTUS get to sign the DREAM Act or a repeal of DOMA.

188 Mocking Jay  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:15:11pm

re: #186 celticdragon

I've been seeing a lot of death threats against the POTUS and the SCOTUS all day on wingnut forums. Bad, bad craziness.

On the upside, at one site I was assured that I am a libtard prostitute and that I should help restart the economy by working on my back. Nice to know that my customer base is that good.

Fortunately you're now guaranteed care that covers contraceptives!

///

189 Ming  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:15:11pm

re: #25 HappyWarrior

It's funny how a bill that was basically what Bob Dole proposed in the 90's and what Romney did as governor of Massachusetts has become associated with left wing radicalism.

Yes, my understanding is exactly what you say: ideas like the mandate are basically CONSERVATIVE, actually a way to achieve near-universal coverage and still have a PRIVATE insurance system.

That's what kills me about the right-wing antipathy towards the Affordable Care Act: it comes not from ideology, but from dislike of Barack Obama, period. One could argue, based on ideology, that the conservative justices would be expected to vote FOR the mandate, and the liberal justices would be expected to vote AGAINST the mandate. Unfortunately, what matters most to many people is not what's in the Affordable Care Act, but who was the guy who signed it into law.

190 celticdragon  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:16:15pm

re: #187 HappyWarrior

Nice people. Have to say if they're freaking out this bad over healthcare reform, it really makes me worry about what will happen should POTUS get to sign the DREAM Act or a repeal of DOMA.

I hope like hell I am wrong...but I am wondering how long we will go into the election season without bloodshed.

191 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:18:02pm

re: #189 Ming

Yes, my understanding is exactly what you say: ideas like the mandate are basically CONSERVATIVE, actually a way to achieve near-universal coverage and still have a PRIVATE insurance system.

That's what kills me about the right-wing antipathy towards the Affordable Care Act: it comes not from ideology, but from dislike of Barack Obama, period. One could argue, based on ideology, that the conservative justices would be expected to vote FOR the mandate, and the liberal justices would be expected to vote AGAINST the mandate. Unfortunately, what matters the most to many people is not what's in the Affordable Care Act, but who was the guy who signed it into law.

It really is unreal how the hatred of Obama has effected the narrative on the health care bill and his presidency and administration as a whole.

192 jaunte  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:18:19pm
Youtube Video

Goodnight all.

193 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:19:15pm

re: #186 celticdragon

I've been seeing a lot of death threats against the POTUS and the SCOTUS all day on wingnut forums. Bad, bad craziness.

On the upside, at one site I was assured that I am a libtard prostitute and that I should help restart the economy by working on my back. Nice to know that my customer base is that good.

Did they compare you to Sandra Fluke? On Twitter some of the haters still like to do that, comparing those who criticize them to "liberal slut Sandra Fluke". it a sign you're dealing dealing with the American Unreconstructed Ditto-Head (Wingnuttor Dittous DERPini).

194 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:22:25pm

re: #193 Dark_Falcon

Did they compare you to Sandra Fluke? On Twitter some of the haters still like to do that, comparing those who criticize them to "liberal slut Sandra Fluke". it a sign you're dealing dealing with the American Unreconstructed Ditto-Head (Wingnuttor Dittous DERPini).

Speaking of the head Ditto, Rush was a joy to listen to today. He was alternating between sounding like he should be on suicide watch, sounding like he was barely keeping himself from screaming for armed revolution, and sounding like he'd taken a hit of whatever Alex Jones is on these days.

195 celticdragon  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:23:57pm

re: #193 Dark_Falcon

Did they compare you to Sandra Fluke? On Twitter some of the haters still like to do that, comparing those who criticize them to "liberal slut Sandra Fluke". it a sign you're dealing dealing with the American Unreconstructed Ditto-Head (Wingnuttor Dittous DERPini).

The guy was off his game. He totally missed that meme and he also forgot to call me a union SEIU Acorn bitch who does blowjobs for Soros at the Tides Foundation. No doubt he was distracted by his sweet wingnut tears dripping on the keyboad and screen.

:)

196 celticdragon  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:28:09pm

Getting late scaly friends. See you on the flipside if I'm not too tired from high class hooking...
/

197 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:28:21pm

re: #190 celticdragon

I hope like hell I am wrong...but I am wondering how long we will go into the election season without bloodshed.

I worry too especially with the attempts at rationalization we saw for Brevik's actions in Norway and what happened to Gabby Giffords of course as well. The way rhetoric has gotten in this presidency is just unreal. It can't be that Obama's policies are disagreeable or even bad policy but they have to be evil and an attack on the American people.

198 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:29:50pm

I don't know about the rest of you, but I am really enjoying this monumental display of helpless rage from the right wing.
I was especially amused by the Michigan lawyer who announced in apparent seriousness that armed rebellion is now justified. Problem is, there aren't more than a handful of conservative ideologues and firebrands who have nothing to lose. Not very many of these hucksters are willing to risk their SUVs, their mcmansions, and their portfolios; not to mention their fat necks; on an armed revolt against the federal government. Suburban cry-babies vs. Delta Force, anyone care to wager on the outcome?

199 SpaceJesus  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:31:51pm

re: #198 Shiplord Kirel

It's all fake. This whole mandate thing was invented and backed by Republicans and conservative think tanks in the 90s.

Black Man in the White House Syndrome.

200 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:32:01pm

re: #198 Shiplord Kirel

I don't know about the rest of you, but I am really enjoying this monumental display of helpless rage from the right wing.
I was especially amused by the Michigan lawyer who announced in apparent seriousness that armed rebellion is now justified. Problem is, there aren't more than a handful of conservative ideologues and firebrands who have nothing to lose. Not very many of these hucksters are willing to risk their SUVs, their mcmansions, and their portfolios; not to mention their fat necks; on an armed revolt against the federal government. Suburban cry-babies vs. Delta Force, anyone care to wager on the outcome?

See, the crazies think Delta Force will join them because they're convinced that they and the rest of the military despise Obama and would turn against him given the chance. Yes, that's how low they think of our military that they think they would do something like that. And that Michigan lawyer was a former Michigan GOP state chair. I am loving the meltdown too I must admit because it's really showing front and center how crazy the modern conservative movement is and how far from reality they are.

201 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:32:53pm

re: #199 SpaceJesus

It's all fake. This whole mandate thing was invented and backed by Republicans and conservative think tanks back in the 90s.

Black Man in the White House Syndrome.

I think I've seen clips of Romney talking about how a mandate was a good thing as recently as 2008. It's got everything as you say to do with who is in the White House.

202 Mocking Jay  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:40:17pm

Full Metal Wingnut

Michael Savage Links Justice John Roberts' Epilepsy Medication To Obamacare Ruling

"Let's talk about Roberts," Savage said. "I'm going to tell you something that you're not gonna hear anywhere else, that you must pay attention to. It's well known that Roberts, unfortunately for him, has suffered from epileptic seizures. Therefore he has been on medication. Therefore neurologists will tell you that medication used for seizure disorders, such as epilepsy, can introduce mental slowing, forgetfulness and other cognitive problems. And if you look at Roberts' writings you can see the cognitive disassociation (sic) in what he is saying..."

203 freetoken  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:41:34pm

re: #202 It's a cookbook!

SludgeReport was pushing that Savage rant - they are all crucifying Roberts for not being activist enough.

204 boxhead  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:42:30pm

re: #199 SpaceJesus

It's all fake. This whole mandate thing was invented and backed by Republicans and conservative think tanks in the 90s.

Black Man in the White House Syndrome.

Not just Black Man, but rather any Democratic President would elicit such a hate fest.

205 Mocking Jay  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:45:06pm

Not gonna link to it, but the Weekly Standard has an article with the headline "This Election Just Became About Obamacare."

Just? As in right now?

It wasn't before?

I be confussed.

206 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:46:51pm

re: #205 It's a cookbook!

Not gonna link to it, but the Weekly Standard has an article with the headline "This Election Just Became About Obamacare."

Just? As in right now?

It wasn't before?

I be confussed.

Don't mind them. They were too busy trying to claim that Charles Barron was the heart and soul of the Democratic party all of the past week.

207 boxhead  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:47:19pm

re: #205 It's a cookbook!

Not gonna link to it, but the Weekly Standard has an article with the headline "This Election Just Became About Obamacare."

Just? As in right now?

It wasn't before?

I be confussed.

They will say anything regardless of previous statements.... It would be funny if these actions did not have real consequences.

208 freetoken  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:47:27pm

re: #205 It's a cookbook!

They need to sell, sell, sell. "Obamacare" is such a hot button for the American right wing that any outlet that caters to them can use it freely and expect plenty of readers who agree with them.

209 Mocking Jay  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:48:56pm

re: #208 freetoken

They need to sell, sell, sell. "Obamacare" is such a hot button for the American right wing that any outlet that caters to them can use it freely and expect plenty of readers who agree with them.

Ohhh. It's like filling in the first line on the Wingnut Welfare form. Got it.

210 boxhead  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:49:57pm

re: #209 It's a cookbook!

Ohhh. It's like filling in the first line on the Wingnut Welfare form. Got it.

well right after their name.... Hopefully they would get that one correct.

211 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:55:16pm

re: #204 boxhead

Not just Black Man, but rather any Democratic President would elicit such a hate fest.

Seriously doubt it, any Democratic President would have faced entrenched opposition sure, but nothing on this scale. The thing about Obama is that he's an ideal template for "othering." He's black, he's got a different name, his father was foreign, African and muslim, his stepfather muslim, etc. He represents the changing face of American like nobody else before him and that terrifies many people, kind of a perfect storm for generating mindless opposition and unconscious hatred. I think even Hillary, with all of the preset ideas about her and the antipathy she generated would have been allowed to be somewhat more effective as President.

212 SpaceJesus  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:55:19pm

Freep asks, "Is Roberts Benedict Arnold?"

[Link: www.freerepublic.com...]

To: Sybeck1

I don’t want to overstate it, but I hope he [Roberts] dies a long and terrible suffering death. Ten times over.

134 posted on Thursday, June 28, 2012 12:03:44 PM by SaraJohnson

To: BillyBoy; sickoflibs; stephenjohnbanker; AuH2ORepublican; fieldmarshaldj; NFHale; GOPsterinMA; ...
Brutus, Judas, Quisling, Roberts

If I lived across the street from him I'd take a crap on his lawn EVERYDAY.

He has not been David Souter 2.0 up till this point but it looks like that might change. Filthy SOB. I wish I was a waiter at restaurant he ate at just so I could spit in his food.

Clearly we need the hardest core conservative judicial nominees for SCOTUS. Not the slightest wiff of "independence" can be tolerated. I'm not blaming Jr. Bush, he looked good at the time.

And with that, my thirst for winger tears has been quenched for today.

213 dragonath  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:56:17pm

I just realized freepers are going to have a hard time bringing about their long awaited revolution, seeing they are opposed to a strike in any shape or form.

214 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:57:20pm

re: #190 celticdragon

I hope like hell I am wrong...but I am wondering how long we will go into the election season without bloodshed.

I'm pretty sure we have quite a few Breiviks and McVeigh wannabes cooking up plans right now out there in the dark corners of middle America. Law enforcement has gotten very, very good at catching these buffoons before they go too far. Some talk too much, or choose accomplices who get arrested on drug charges. Some blow themselves up in their ill-advised experiments. Some are caught because they don't realize their material purchases set off all kinds of alarms. That is what happened to the dim-bulb jihad wannabe who was caught in Lubbock last year and convicted yesterday in federal court. Some rob banks or drug dealers to finance their activities, and get busted in the process. Some are just stupid. Most will lose their nerve. A select few may succeed and cause a great deal of mayhem and grief, but they will not even rattle the foundations of lawful authority.

215 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:57:29pm

re: #212 SpaceJesus

Freep asks, "Is Roberts Benedict Arnold?"

[Link: www.freerepublic.com...]

And with that, my thirst for winger tears has been quenched for today.

Not the slightest bit of independence, so in otherwords the poster wants a conservative judicial activist. And the part about spitting in his food is gross.

216 Mocking Jay  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 9:57:40pm

re: #212 SpaceJesus

They really shouldn't let 14 year olds post on that site...

217 boxhead  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 10:00:54pm

re: #211 goddamnedfrank

Seriously doubt it, any Democratic President would have faced entrenched opposition sure, but nothing on this scale. The thing about Obama is that he's an ideal template for "othering." He's black, he's got a different name, his father was foreign, African and muslim, his stepfather muslim, etc. He represents the changing face of American like nobody else before him and that terrifies many people, kind of a perfect storm for generating mindless opposition and unconscious hatred. I think even Hillary, with all of the preset ideas about her and the antipathy she generated would have been allowed to be somewhat more effective as President.

The Political climate during Clinton was very toxic as well.... He was Impeached for being a horny kook! But yes... I hate to think so poorly of the opposition that race is such a huge concern. It makes USA look very bad.

So if today's toxicity is a 10, what was Clinton's? At least an 8. Hillary would be a 9, if not a 10 as well. These Righties really seem to hate "uppity" women.

218 Mich-again  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 10:03:24pm

I sort of predicted John Roberts would vote as he did last night here.. There is bad karma between Roberts and Scalia. Roberts takes his job as a judge seriously and puts politics aside when ruling on the law. Scalia is just another angry white man in a robe, and he has gone over the top with his far right politics at speeches and in his opinions. I'm not saying Roberts voted like he did to get back at Scalia, but I do think Scalia's radicalism is an embarrassment to 7 of the other judges.

219 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 10:06:13pm

re: #218 Mich-again

I sort of predicted John Roberts would vote as he did last night here.. There is bad karma between Roberts and Scalia. Roberts takes his job as a judge seriously and puts politics aside when ruling on the law. Scalia is just another angry white man in a robe, and he has gone over the top with his far right politics at speeches and in his opinions. I'm not saying Roberts voted like he did to get back at Scalia, but I do think Scalia's radicalism is an embarrassment to 7 of the other judges.

I think Scalia loves the attention he gets. I imagine Roberts who as you point out takes his job seriously while Scalia seems to be in love with getting his name in the paper and on the news. Only one worse than Scalia to me is Thomas due to Thomas's complete lack of intellectual curiosity and lack of questions and subsequently the lack of strong opinions. The latter is the only thing Scalia really has going for him over Thomas. I have to admit I had a more optimistic feeling than I had earlier when I heard about Roberts siding with the left bloc on the Arizona law.

220 SpaceJesus  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 10:08:41pm

Fact: Scalia's new beard is pretty slick

221 boxhead  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 10:09:42pm

re: #218 Mich-again

I sort of predicted John Roberts would vote as he did last night here.. There is bad karma between Roberts and Scalia. Roberts takes his job as a judge seriously and puts politics aside when ruling on the law. Scalia is just another angry white man in a robe, and he has gone over the top with his far right politics at speeches and in his opinions. I'm not saying Roberts voted like he did to get back at Scalia, but I do think Scalia's radicalism is an embarrassment to 7 of the other judges.

I have hope for Justice Roberts as well. While he was certainly a conservative jurist, it appeared he was intellectually honest... well except Citizens United..... :( Time will tell, obviously. My hope is that he becomes the pragmatic jurist we need.

222 Mich-again  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 10:10:59pm

re: #220 SpaceJesus

Fact: Scalia's new beard is pretty slick

Is he still sporting that greasy combover look?

223 dragonath  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 10:11:21pm

Rore: #218 Mich-again

Roberts is probably a corporate conservative at heart, but he showed today that he is not so easily controlled. Better for us and him.

Like I said earlier, I wouldn't have expected a ruling like this from his predecessor Rehnquist, who was purely political in the Nixon mold.

Kennedy has become the most contemptous man on the court. He's gotten the most important decisions of the last 15 years wrong. Bush v Gore, Citizens United, and now, this.

224 SpaceJesus  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 10:14:40pm

re: #222 Mich-again

ugh, nevermind. the video i was watching is old. scalia no longer rocks the beard. :(

225 dragonath  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 10:14:45pm

Who knows, it'd be pretty amizing if ACA turns out to be terrible... but with the track record of Scalia and Thomas, I think we won't have to worry about that.

226 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 10:14:46pm

re: #223 Be Zorch, Daddio

Ro

Roberts is probably a corporate conservative at heart, but he showed today that he is not so easily controlled. Better for us and him.

Like I said earlier, I wouldn't have expected a ruling like this from his predecessor Rehnquist, who was purely political in the Nixon mold.

Kennedy has become the most contemptous man on the court. He's gotten the most important decisions of the last 15 years wrong. Bush v Gore, Citizens United, and now, this.

Oh yeah, no way in hell Rehnquist rules in favor of the administration's position since as you say he was purely political. Woodward's The Brethren does a great job of pointing that out. I think Roberts reminds me somewhat of Potter Stewart or John Marshall Harlan from that book. A conservative, sure, but also at heart not beholden to ideology. I think Kennedy will make a fascinating research topic for a future historian of the court. I really thought if anyone would have affirmed the mandate it would have been him but I've heard that he was against pretty much everything the court ruled on.

227 Mich-again  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 10:16:33pm

re: #221 boxhead

I have hope for Justice Roberts as well. While he was certainly a conservative jurist, it appeared he was intellectually honest... well except Citizens United... :( Time will tell, obviously. My hope is that he becomes the pragmatic jurist we need.

What has been amusing to watch is the reaction from the right. They just do not get the concept that judges are supposed to make decisions based on the law and not based on their Party affiliation and who appointed them.

228 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 10:18:12pm

re: #227 Mich-again

What has been amusing to watch is the reaction from the right. They just do not get the concept that judges are supposed to make decisions based on the law and not based on their Party affiliation and who appointed them.

They're complaining that Roberts has done in fact what they say they want out of their judges. Roberts' going from the guy conservatives use as their model justice to someone now spoken as if he betrayed the country by the right is something that amuses me.

229 boxhead  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 10:19:33pm

re: #227 Mich-again

What has been amusing to watch is the reaction from the right. They just do not get the concept that judges are supposed to make decisions based on the law and not based on their Party affiliation and who appointed them.

yeah... For the Righties, it is ALL about ideology and not Law, nor rational thought, nor civility, nor concern for the plight of our fellow Citizens. When will the pragmatic Conservatives step up?

230 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 10:21:14pm

Roberts probably won't ever be my favorite justice I don't deny that but I think he's a far better example of what a conservative judge should be than Scalia or Alito or Thomas.

231 Mich-again  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 10:21:54pm

re: #224 SpaceJesus

ugh, nevermind. the video i was watching is old. scalia no longer rocks the beard. :(

I liked Scalia better when he played Louie on that old TV show Taxi.

232 boxhead  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 10:24:25pm

re: #231 Mich-again

I liked Scalia better when he played Louie on that old TV show Taxi.

DUDE... don't ever disparage Danny DeVito like that. He is way too cool!

heh

233 dragonath  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 10:25:19pm

re: #226 HappyWarrior

A little known fact about Rehnquist is that he wrote the memos giving legal cover to the Nixon Administration in their bombing of Cambodia. Roberts looks like a saint compared to him.

234 freetoken  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 10:26:52pm

The guy who is turning his back on the UK (after his companies have been exposed for their wire tapping of officials) is expressing his displeasure with today's event:

Rupert Murdoch: Health care ruling makes me ‘worry’

[...]

“Following the Supreme Court hearings, I’m a little surprised, but it’s clearly — it will be seen as a big victory for the president,” the News Corp. chairman and CEO said Thursday on Fox News, moments after the highly anticipated decision was read. “They’ll all be doing high-fives at the moment at the White House. But on the other hand, every poll showed it’s not a popular bill, so we’re going to the election and fight it there, I imagine.”

[...]

"We're" - in other words, Murdoch is quite clear about his partisan approach to this, and nothing could be clearer as to why Fox News does what it does.

235 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 10:27:58pm

re: #233 Be Zorch, Daddio

A little known fact about Rehnquist is that he wrote the memos giving legal cover to the Nixon Administration in their bombing of Cambodia. Roberts looks like a saint compared to him.

There's also the fact that Rehnquist tried when he was a clerk to get Justice Jackson to dissent from brown and I've heard other stories that say he tried to intimidate black voters in Arizona. Not sure how true that one is but I'm not a fan of Rehnquist. He's easily one of Nixon's worst legacies in a long list of them.

236 Mich-again  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 10:28:10pm

re: #232 boxhead

DUDE... don't ever disparage Danny DeVito like that. He is way too cool!

heh

Yeah, SNL should invite him to parody Scalia sometime, that could be good..

237 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 10:29:00pm

re: #236 Mich-again

Yeah, SNL should invite him to parody Scalia sometime, that could be good..

Good idea. I think Danny would do great.

238 boxhead  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 10:29:23pm

re: #234 freetoken

The guy who is turning his back on the UK (after his companies have been exposed for their wire tapping of officials) is expressing his displeasure with today's event:

Rupert Murdoch: Health care ruling makes me ‘worry’

"We're" - in other words, Murdoch is quite clear about his partisan approach to this, and nothing could be clearer as to why Fox News does what it does.

He needs to go away....

239 boxhead  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 10:30:20pm

re: #237 HappyWarrior

Good idea. I think Danny would do great.

That would be great if SNL still had talented writers... heh

240 Mich-again  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 10:30:28pm

re: #234 freetoken

"We're" - in other words, Murdoch is quite clear about his partisan approach to this, and nothing could be clearer as to why Fox News does what it does.

Great point. One little word speaks volumes.

241 freetoken  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 10:30:37pm

re: #238 boxhead

He needs to go away...

But... he's going to do just the opposite. As I linked earlier, Rupert is pouting over being exposed for his shenanigans in the UK and has threatened/promised to not invest any more in his UK businesses but instead only invest in his American businesses.

We win, I guess.

242 Mich-again  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 10:30:59pm

re: #239 boxhead

That would be great if SNL still had talented writers... heh

I don't think Danny would need much of a script.

243 boxhead  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 10:32:54pm

LOL... Tenacious D is playing on The Daily Show....

244 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 10:32:55pm

We? Sounds like he's a member of the RNC saying that.

245 boxhead  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 10:33:49pm

re: #241 freetoken

But... he's going to do just the opposite. As I linked earlier, Rupert is pouting over being exposed for his shenanigans in the UK and has threatened/promised to not invest any more in his UK businesses but instead only invest in his American businesses.

We win, I guess.

can't we send him back to Aussie? arrrr

246 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 10:33:56pm

One other side effect of the court affirming this is I hope it weakens the political future of Virginia's kook AG, Ken Cuccinneli who was doing everything in his power to get this shut down.

247 dragonath  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 10:39:24pm

It's funny how libertarianism has boiled down to, in many aspects, the defence of grifters. "Classical liberalism" is completely antithetical to old-style conservatism.

248 freetoken  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 10:55:49pm

White House releases Affordable Care Act fact sheet

The Supreme Court's decision to uphold the Affordable Care Act ensures hard-working, middle class families will get the security they deserve [1] and protects every American from the worst insurance company abuses [2]. This law was also specifically designed to give States the resources and flexibility they need to tailor their approach to their unique needs. With the uncertainty about the Court’s decision behind us, it’s now time to focus on implementing this law in a smart and non-bureaucratic way that works for the middle class.

Benefits and Protections for the Middle Class: The Affordable Care Act includes numerous provisions to keep health care costs low, promote prevention, and hold insurance companies accountable. If you’re one of the 250 million Americans who already have health care – whether through private insurance, Medicare, or Medicaid – the Affordable Care Act is already making your coverage more secure.

• Insurance companies no longer have unchecked power [3] to cancel your policy, deny your child coverage due to a pre-existing condition, or charge women more than men.

• Over 86 million Americans have gained from coverage of preventive care free of charge [4], like mammograms for women and wellness visits for seniors.

[...]

If you are one of the 30 million Americans who don’t yet have health insurance, starting in 2014 [5] this law will offer you an array of quality, affordable [6], private health insurance plans to choose from. If you need care, you will finally have the same opportunity to get quality, affordable coverage as everyone else.

Coverage for Americans with Pre-Existing Conditions: A major impact of the Court's decision is that 129 million people with pre-existing conditions will have the security of affordable health coverage. Starting in 2014, insurance companies can no longer charge you more, carve out benefits, or deny you coverage altogether because you have cancer or diabetes or simply because you are a woman. To make these protections affordable, people with and without pre-existing conditions should be insured, since everyone at some time needs health care. [7]

[...]

Here are some reasons why I've never championed the approach taken by this administration in addressing health care, as comments (numbered in brackets added to the PR) to the statement quoted above:

[1] Who can ever say who "deserves" exactly what? Using the word "deserve" is just a marketing ploy. Yes, that is all it is - a political marketing strategy built around a well treaded marketing strategy of convincing a consumer they "deserve" a certain good.

[2] Any organization can abuse its power and certainly insurance companies are not immune, yet the challenge facing American health care - total cost and coverage - is not principally due to insurance companies "abusing" insurance holders. All the WH is doing here is identifying an "enemy" that is easy to target.

[3] Did insurance companies always have "unchecked" power? Really? Like, no one has ever taken an insurance company to court in a suit? Insurance companies have to obey judges' decisions too.

[4] This is the worse offense in the WH propaganda. Sorry, but nothing is "free". Are they implying that the techs and doctors who give mammograms do so without charging a fee? Of course medical professionals get paid - so this additional healthcare is in no sense "free".

[5] The slow roll out of the changes doesn't help people before 2014. Many will die or be hospitalized before then. Governments are usually slow, but this highlights quite well just how long it takes to address institutional changes.

[continued]

249 boxhead  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 10:56:10pm

re: #247 Be Zorch, Daddio

It's funny how libertarianism has boiled down to, in many aspects, the defence of grifters. "Classical liberalism" is completely antithetical to old-style conservatism.

Current libertarians seem to ignore realities of modern life when it comes to shared expenses required to live in large communities. We don't life alone in the mountains in some log cabin.

250 boxhead  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 11:03:24pm

re: #248 freetoken

I thought being denied coverage due to pre-existing conditions is active. As well as keeping dependent children up to 26 years of age. And I also believe the doughnut hole in Medicare Part 4 for prescription drugs is gone. Not sure about the end of insurance companies having a maximum dollar amount for customers, but that is part of it as well. No reason to have medical costs as the number one reason for bankruptcy.

Are these not good things?

251 freetoken  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 11:03:52pm

[6] "Affordable" is a relative term and we won't know until the exchange insurance plans are actually priced and compared to the income available to the buyers to know if the term "affordable" really applies.

[7] While it is certainly true that nearly all Americans receive health care services some time in their lives, not everyone requires the same level of care. This is obviously true of chronic or congenital conditions, but it is also true in regards to matters of lifestyle. The problem with the WH approach is the unwillingness to hold people accountable for their actions. This is surprising, in light of the First Lady's campaign to change America's eating habits.

I could go off on a long tangent about how the Democrats have a history of messing up good ideas or of unnecessarily complicated approaches to address problems.

The heart of the matter is that some people need lots of medical attention, some need less. In the former there are plenty of people who simply can't afford the level of medical care needed to keep them in a condition to have a productive life. The answer to this is to socialize that cost, provide government assistance funded through tax revenues, and to let the rest of the American society buy whatever healthcare they chose.

The problem our society has, starting with the 1980 election, is having a clear voice that can sell the idea of taxes paying for government healthcare. Everyone has been running from the idea of government programs since Reagan, yet through the backdoor increasing total government spending on this or that. It's grossly dysfunctional, and our greatest failing of the political leadership is that there are no clear voices confronting the American people on the necessity of social responsibility.

252 freetoken  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 11:16:07pm

re: #250 boxhead

Yes, IIRC some of those are already in effect. However, the idea of having 20-somethings still be eligible as dependents upon their parents' health insurance sounds to me more like a political strategy (to encourage 20-somethings to vote for Obama/Democrats) rather than something really important to addressing the fundamentals of health care in this country.

253 boxhead  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 11:21:41pm

re: #252 freetoken

Since single payer and medicare for all was not possible, allowing young adults coverage until, hopefully, the economy picks up and good jobs will be available. ACA is really a good thing for private insurance companies. They have mandated customers from all Americans. I would think the Right would be ecstatic.

254 Mocking Jay  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 11:23:09pm

re: #253 boxhead

Since single payer and medicare for all was not possible, allowing young adults coverage until, hopefully, the economy picks up and good jobs will be available. ACA is really a good thing for private insurance companies. They have mandated customers from all Americans. I would think the Right would be ecstatic.

Also, people that young are often supermen who never get hurt so they don't bother to opt-in. Or at least they think they are.

255 Mich-again  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 11:23:26pm

re: #253 boxhead

Since single payer and medicare for all was not possible, allowing young adults coverage until, hopefully, the economy picks up and good jobs will be available. ACA is really a good thing for private insurance companies. They have mandated customers from all Americans. I would think the Right would be ecstatic.

And for perspective, a family of 4 with income at 150% of the poverty level would pay $50 per month. That is less than one cell phone contract.

256 EdDantes  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 11:23:53pm

re: #253 boxhead

When do you anticipate the economy will pick up? I see no signs of that happening.

257 Mich-again  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 11:26:32pm

People without health insurance increase medical costs for people who do have health insurance. The whole idea that hospitals are required to provide medical care drove the requirement to purchase health insurance.

To promote a system where people with health insurance pay extra to cover people without health insurance seems eerily socialist..

258 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 11:26:52pm

re: #252 freetoken

Yes, IIRC some of those are already in effect. However, the idea of having 20-somethings still be eligible as dependents upon their parents' health insurance sounds to me more like a political strategy (to encourage 20-somethings to vote for Obama/Democrats) rather than something really important to addressing the fundamentals of health care in this country.

Well, at what point in our history was the break from the extended family to the nuclear family in a single household? (I'd say roughly the 50s with the spawning of suburbia.) Up to that time the sons and daughters would essentially be staying on until they got married and moved out to make their own households (or be absorbed into the household of their spouse possibly.)

259 Mich-again  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 11:27:02pm

re: #256 EdDantes

When do you anticipate the economy will pick up? I see no signs of that happening.

Depends on where you are and what your occupation is.

260 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 11:29:33pm

Good Morning Lizards!

The snark will be strong today due to a trifecta of things. First, I'm in Day 3 of a sinus infection that has my sleep cycle in a shambles, an achy head, and a constant hacking cough from post-nasal drip. Second, I'm at work early (2am EST) to help with some project work in Germany. Third, they are testing the fire alarm equipment in the building, so it is intermittently going off. Coffee and cough drops will not be enough.

261 boxhead  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 11:31:00pm

re: #256 EdDantes

When do you anticipate the economy will pick up? I see no signs of that happening.

My Magic Eight Ball seems to not be cooperating... :(

262 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 11:32:27pm

re: #261 boxhead

My Magic Eight Ball seems to not be cooperating... :(

The Magic 8-ball the Brazilian contractor has says "Cannot predict now".

263 Mich-again  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 11:32:35pm

Medicare does some really dumb things.. My mom is 81.. Medicare has so far spent over $200 to rent her a Nebulizer for breathing treatments that they could have bought for $50, and they've spent over $2,000 so far renting her a wheelchair they could have bought for $500.

Multiply that by millions of geriatric Americans with similar health conditions. Really, the Rent-to-Own place at the strip mall would give you a better deal.

264 Mocking Jay  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 11:34:09pm

re: #257 Mich-again

To promote a system where people with health insurance pay extra to cover people without health insurance seems eerily socialist..

From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs...

265 boxhead  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 11:36:19pm

re: #262 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

The Magic 8-ball the Brazilian contractor has says "Cannot predict now".

Is that the new battery operated version?

266 EdDantes  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 11:36:58pm

re: #261 boxhead

My Magic Eight Ball seems to not be cooperating... :(

I use chicken offal and those avian guts tell me that the economy will continue as it is until the private sector is allowed to do what it does best without government interference.

267 freetoken  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 11:37:51pm

re: #258 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

It's not really the dependency of 26 year olds that bothers me.

Rather, 20-somethings as a class just don't consume much healthcare.

As one gets older the costs climb dramatically. That's the hot potato, the source of DEATH PANELS!!! and the like.

268 Mich-again  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 11:45:51pm

re: #267 freetoken

It's not really the dependency of 26 year olds that bothers me.

Rather, 20-somethings as a class just don't consume much healthcare.

As one gets older the costs climb dramatically. That's the hot potato, the source of DEATH PANELS!!! and the like.

As medicine develops new treatments and people live healthier lifestyles it will increase health care costs for the elderly.

269 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 11:46:11pm

re: #265 boxhead

Is that the new battery operated version?

No he has a standard one. Part of our corruption of his South American sensibilities with American cultural icons and ideas.

270 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 11:47:29pm

re: #257 Mich-again

People without health insurance increase medical costs for people who do have health insurance. The whole idea that hospitals are required to provide medical care drove the requirement to purchase health insurance.

To promote a system where people with health insurance pay extra to cover people without health insurance seems eerily socialist..

Comes with scary socialist names like "The New Deal" or "The Great Society".

271 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 11:48:20pm

re: #265 boxhead

Is that the new battery operated version?

I'm sure I could get a app that does it for my I-phone.

272 boxhead  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 11:49:04pm

re: #271 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

I'm sure I could get a app that does it for my I-phone.

LOL... no shit... I bet there is

273 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 11:49:20pm

re: #266 EdDantes

I use chicken offal and those avian guts tell me that the economy will continue as it is until the private sector is allowed to do what it does best without government interference.

What's that? Cheat, blow up a section of the economy, and then ask the government for a bail-out?
//

274 freetoken  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 11:50:36pm

re: #253 boxhead

Since single payer and medicare for all was not possible, allowing young adults coverage until, hopefully, the economy picks up and good jobs will be available. ACA is really a good thing for private insurance companies. They have mandated customers from all Americans. I would think the Right would be ecstatic.

You'd think so, wouldn't we?

As for the "not possible" part - I really wish that President Obama would have aimed higher while he had his party a majority in the House. At the time I thought the ACA was an overwrought mess, still think it is an overwrought mess (as evidenced today with the extensive court ruling, having in part to modify the Medicaid portion).

If they had it to do all over again, I wonder if the Democrats would not have been better off making a significant enlargement to Medicaid, allowing those who could demonstrate that private insurance companies would not cover them an automatic grant to be covered by Medicaid (no matter the age, under a certain income), and also having Medicaid cover those who could demonstrate than any available insurance was more than an M% above their income.

There would have been no constitutional challenges. Certainly Medicaid would have been the leading Republican campaign issue then, but no more than ACA is now.

275 boxhead  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 11:50:47pm

re: #266 EdDantes

I use chicken offal and those avian guts tell me that the economy will continue as it is until the private sector is allowed to do what it does best without government interference.

hmmm... I think I heard that one before.... I really not trust anyone I cannot look in the eye. Letting the private sector run loose does not feel right. What concern do they have for the well being of USA?

276 boxhead  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 11:52:23pm

re: #274 freetoken

There were a few Blue Dog Dems that would have nothing to do with those solutions. It was either this, or nothing.

277 EdDantes  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 11:52:39pm

re: #273 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

What's that? Cheat, blow up a section of the economy, and then ask the government for a bail-out?
//

I'm not going to argue with my infallible giblets.

278 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 11:53:15pm

re: #277 EdDantes

I'm not going to argue with my infallible giblets.

You could cook them for the local Feline Overlord to enjoy. :)

279 EdDantes  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 11:54:48pm

re: #278 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

You could cook them for the local Feline Overlord to enjoy. :)

Tasty fried chicken livers coming up!

280 boxhead  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 11:55:23pm

re: #272 boxhead

LOL... no shit... I bet there is

heh.. I just downloaded it on my phone.... disappointed cause it did not have the graphics of the moving tile at the end. But you still need to shake it.

281 freetoken  Thu, Jun 28, 2012 11:55:53pm

re: #276 boxhead

And that was a failure of the Democratic party leadership (Pelosi, Obama.)

282 boxhead  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 12:00:40am

re: #281 freetoken

And that was a failure of the Democratic party leadership (Pelosi, Obama.)

What could they do? Use extreme coercion? That is what the GOP would have done. I'd like to think our elected officials would be able to vote as their constituents wish or moral conviction. Yeah, I know, I am in fairy tale land.... :(

So do you think it is a sign of good and healthy leadership to coerce your party members to toe the line?

283 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 12:02:59am

Yeah, I don't get it either.

Hannity said that "today the SCOTUS passed the largest tax increase in American History"

I thought, "WTF--What Bullshit"

But, ratings require advertisers . . . .

No, I think that is the other way around.

284 EdDantes  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 12:05:06am

re: #283 ggt

Yeah, I don't get it either.

Hannity said that "today the SCOTUS passed the largest tax increase in American History"

I thought, "WTF--What Bullshit"

But, ratings require advertisers . . .

But the Supreme Court said it is a tax. And it is massive so what do you disagree with?

285 freetoken  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 12:05:18am

re: #282 boxhead

So do you think it is a sign of good and healthy leadership to coerce your party members to toe the line?

In some sense - yes. "Coercion" can come in many varieties.

The failure started before Obama was elected - my criticism of him is just that he didn't seem to get as much out of his election, his mandate so to speak, that he could have.

Most of my criticism is aimed at the entrenched Congressional Democratic machine. Besides aiming too low on health care, remember this was the same group that failed to get a complete budge in place before the 2010 election, handing to the GOP the power to hold Obama hostage on budget negotiations. That was such a blunder on the part of Pelosi.

286 freetoken  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 12:07:39am

re: #282 boxhead

So do you think it is a sign of good and healthy leadership to coerce your party members to toe the line?

In some sense - yes. "Coercion" can come in many varieties.

The failure started before Obama was elected - my criticism of him is just that he didn't seem to get as much out of his election, his mandate so to speak, that he could have.

Most of my criticism is aimed at the entrenched Congressional Democratic machine. Besides aiming too low on health care, remember this was the same group that failed to get a complete budge in place before the 2010 election, handing to the GOP the power to hold Obama hostage on budget negotiations. That was such a blunder on the part of Pelosi.

287 EdDantes  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 12:08:26am

re: #283 ggt

Yeah, I don't get it either.

Hannity said that "today the SCOTUS passed the largest tax increase in American History"

I thought, "WTF--What Bullshit"

But, ratings require advertisers . . .

The Supreme court says it is a tax so what do you disagree with?

288 Amory Blaine  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 12:09:06am

I think once the dust settles people are going to view it more favorably. We've just been getting screwed by insurance companies for so long it's going to take some time to wrap around the positive aspects of the bill.

289 engineer cat  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 12:13:13am

freeperville to-nite:

Eric Cantor has scheduled a "repeal Obamacare" vote for July 11th. Because the mandate was defined as a tax, can the House simply repeal the tax, as they have the power of taxation?

Would this effectively cancel the mandate, causing the bill to implode on itself?

---

If this were possible, then Roberts would be a genius, limiting the commerce clause and tricking the libs on the court into allowing the House to repeal their "win".

It can't be this simple, I know I'm missing something.

---

Now That Obamacare Has Passed, Here's What It's Going To Cost You [ the fine is $2,058.00 !!!! ]

Consumer penalties: Part of the controversy surrounding health care reform was that the law would mandate coverage for all Americans on pain of penalties. Those penalties will be tiered and rise over a three-year period that kicks off in 2014, according to the National Association of Consumer Protection:

2014: Families––$285 or 1 percent of total household income, whichever is greater. Individual adults––$95. 2015: Families––$975 or 2 percent of income, whichever is greater. Individual adults––$325. 2016: Families––$2,085 or 2.5 percent of income, whichever is greater. Individual adults––$695.

obamacare 2009: LIBERAL FASCIST SOCIALIZED MEDICINE TAKEOVER OF 60% OF THE ECONOMY DEATH PANELS DEATH PANELS DEATH PANELS

obamacare 2012: more taxes. i hate teh taxes. fuck taxes

290 boxhead  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 12:16:37am

re: #289 engineer cat

He is still better than the alternative...

291 Amory Blaine  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 12:16:59am

His math is off.

292 freetoken  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 12:17:00am

re: #289 engineer cat

obamacare 2009: LIBERAL FASCIST SOCIALIZED MEDICINE TAKEOVER OF 60% OF THE ECONOMY DEATH PANELS DEATH PANELS DEATH PANELS

Yeah, like, that pushes all the buttons.

293 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 12:17:37am

re: #287 EdDantes

The Supreme court says it is a tax so what do you disagree with?

The Supremes didn't pass it, they merely ruled it constitutional.

The government taxes inaction all the time, though we usually think of it as giving tax deductions for engaging in certain activities. In the end the net effect is identical, your income tax bill is higher if you don't have dependent children, haven't taken out a mortgage, declared itemized capital losses or made federal student loan interest payments.

294 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 12:22:56am

re: #293 goddamnedfrank

The Supremes didn't pass it, they merely ruled it constitutional.

The government taxes inaction all the time, though we usually think of it as giving tax deductions for engaging in certain activities. In the end the net effect is identical, your income tax bill is higher if you don't have dependent children, haven't taken out a mortgage, declared itemized capital losses or made federal student loan interest payments.

That's one reason I never understand the "I get taxed to support other people" and "I get taxed and the money is used to pay for XXXX that I don't like" crap. We've been doing it for a couple of hundred years already, and it's part of living in a modern nation-state.

And I have doubts that many people realize how nasty things would be without our implemented bits of "socialism!"

295 Amory Blaine  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 12:23:21am

I was a big dreamer of single payer when Obama took office but I gotta tell you Frank you have bought up some good points about ACA. Nothings perfect and considering the alternative, which would be nothing, this is a relief we need. Can you seriously imagine what it would be like in another 5 years if things remained the same?

296 boxhead  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 12:23:39am

Well good night all.... I am sure much more will will come of this ruling and thus plenty of fuel for sites like this.. :)

297 EdDantes  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 12:24:13am

re: #288 Amory Blaine

I think once the dust settles people are going to view it more favorably. We've just been getting screwed by insurance companies for so long it's going to take some time to wrap around the positive aspects of the bill.

Health care is expensive and will be more so in the future regardless of insurance coverage. What once was a small town doctor who served his community is now a Titan medical establishment that feeds on insurance subscribers and government subsidies for sustenance. I don't see how further government interference is going to make things better or more affordable.
Medical care still costs are large regardless of who pays.

298 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 12:24:57am

re: #295 Amory Blaine

I was a big dreamer of single payer when Obama took office but I gotta tell you Frank you have bought up some good points about ACA. Nothings perfect and considering the alternative, which would be nothing, this is a relief we need. Can you seriously imagine what it would be like in another 5 years if things remained the same?

Bain Capital would be buying up bankrupt people and breaking them down for spare transplant parts?
/// (+ reference to series of Larry Niven stories)

299 Mocking Jay  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 12:31:01am

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

Health insurance, as it happens, has long been one such area. Suppose your employer pays you a $90,000 salary and spends $10,000 to buy health insurance for you. All $100,000 is considered a business expense and is therefore a tax deduction for the company, but you will pay income taxes only on the $90,000.

If the employer did not buy insurance, but instead paid you the full $100,000, the company’s tax bill would be unchanged. But you would pay taxes on the full $100,000, even if you used $10,000 of it to buy the health insurance the employer was no longer providing.

You already pay more in taxes if you're not insured. What's the problem again?

300 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 12:33:28am

re: #294 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

That's one reason I never understand the "I get taxed to support other people" and "I get taxed and the money is used to pay for XXX that I don't like" crap. We've been doing it for a couple of hundred years already, and it's part of living in a modern nation-state.

And I have doubts that many people realize how nasty things would be without our implemented bits of "socialism!"

The tax deduction that just kills me is the one for mortgage payments on second homes (million dollar mortgage limit). That's got to be one of the worst thought out ideas ever, encouraging speculation, and literal rent seeking behavior while pricing single family homes even further out of reach. Landlords already get to write off a certain percentage of their maintenance costs, the idea of letting them write off mortgage interest on what is essentially purely an investment makes no sense to me. If you're rich enough to afford a second (vacation) home with a million dollar mortgage then congratulations, you've fucking made it, you clearly don't need the government's help making ends meet anymore.

301 AK-47%  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 12:35:29am

re: #300 goddamnedfrank

And Grover Norquist views closing such tax loopholes as de-facto "tax increases" and will see to it that the GOP fights them tooth and nail.

302 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 12:38:34am

Hmm, reading Larry Niven's wikipedia entry. And there's this paragraph:

In 2007, Niven, in conjunction with a group of science fiction writers known as SIGMA, led by Pournelle, began advising the U.S. Department of Homeland Security as to future trends affecting terror policy and other topics.[8] One of his suggestions as a member of SIGMA was that hospitals stem financial losses by spreading rumors in Spanish within the Latino community that emergency rooms are killing patients in order to harvest their organs for transplants, in order to reduce illegal immigrants' use of emergency rooms.[9]

That's a pretty dickish thing to do. Making people wary of hospitals can backfire badly in terms of things like communicable diseases like an outbreak of a nasty influenza strain.

303 AK-47%  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 12:41:29am

re: #302 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

That's a pretty dickish thing to do. Making people wary of hospitals can backfire badly in terms of things like communicable diseases like an outbreak of a nasty influenza strain.

Just like making people wary of police can backfire badly in terms of (non-immigration related) crime prevention

304 Amory Blaine  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 12:41:37am

In the state of WI there are insurance rate increases up into the 30 percent points for one year. I for one want to see this abusive practice brought to an end.

305 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 12:42:43am

re: #295 Amory Blaine

I was a big dreamer of single payer when Obama took office but I gotta tell you Frank you have bought up some good points about ACA. Nothings perfect and considering the alternative, which would be nothing, this is a relief we need. Can you seriously imagine what it would be like in another 5 years if things remained the same?

I voted for Ralph Nader in 2000. I said smug, dumb shit to people like "things have to get worse before they can get better." I still have my Nader/Laduke sticker on the old Mac G4 tower I keep around as a low end server. That sticker serves to remind me of what a completely insufferable ponce I was back then. Slow, incremental change is far preferable to believing that an incompetent conservative government will magically wake people up.

306 EdDantes  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 12:43:24am

Free health care for all!
Good night, everyone.

307 EdDantes  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 12:46:07am

re: #306 EdDantes

Free health care for all!
Good night, everyone.

Oh, and free the Fantastic Four!

308 AK-47%  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 12:48:57am

Free Bird!!!

309 freetoken  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 12:51:24am

One decision that slid under the radar most of Thursday:

Supreme Court strikes down Stolen Valor Act

The Supreme Court on Thursday struck down a federal law that makes it a crime to lie about being a military hero. In fact, the justices ruled that many lies are protected by the First Amendment.

The 6-3 ruling came in a case involving Xavier Alvarez, a former local elected official who at a 2007 water-board meeting in Southern California falsely claimed he had served as a Marine and received a Medal of Honor, the nation's highest military decoration.

Justice Anthony Kennedy, writing for the majority, said the First Amendment "protects the speech we detest as well as the speech we embrace."

The ruling is one of several recent Supreme Court rulings dealing with the First Amendment that would seem to go against public sentiment. As Justice Samuel Alito wrote in the dissenting opinion, the law was "enacted to stem an epidemic of false claims about military decorations" that "were undermining our country's system of military honors and inflicting real harm on actual medal recipients and their families."

[...]

The three dissenters were of course Alito, Scalio, and Thomas.

I think the majority were obviously correct (political speech is protected, even if it is unpleasant, and this has been upheld many times before.) How many times does this idea have to be rerun?

310 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 12:53:47am
Youtube Video
311 AK-47%  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 12:54:31am

re: #309 freetoken

SCOTUS is telling us that it is not the government's job to protect us against the consequences of being gullible idiots who believe things without verification from independent sources.

312 researchok  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 1:12:16am

Morning, all

313 researchok  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 1:21:51am

Triangle could hit its 'hottest temperature ever'

Triangle residents are bracing themselves for what could be the hottest day ever in the capital city, marking just the start of a predicted four-day stretch of 100-degree-plus weather.

Sweltering temperatures could reach a record-breaking 106 degrees at Raleigh-Durham International Airport Friday. The heat index will make it feel like 110 degrees.

"For those that think we're inflating these numbers, the atmosphere continues to exceed even our expectations," WRAL Chief Meteorologist Greg Fishel said. "We're going for the hottest temperature ever observed. I don't take that lightly."

If it gets over 105 degrees at RDU Friday, that won't be the first record to fall to this heat wave.

Temperatures will stay in the triple digits through Monday. Even during the nighttime, the mercury will struggle to drop below 80 degrees.

314 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 1:23:02am

re: #313 researchok

Was 82 F at 2am here in Philly when I walked over to work.

315 researchok  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 1:24:34am

re: #314 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

It's going to be a long hot weekend.

You guys are going to get nailed as well, I'll bet.

316 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 1:28:53am

re: #315 researchok

It's going to be a long hot weekend.

You guys are going to get nailed as well, I'll bet.

Calling for high of 99 today, 91 tomorrow (with thunderstorms) and 90 or so the rest of the week with overnight lows in the 70s. So a heatwave similiar to mid-July last year with a 2-3 week span with the temp going over 90 every day. Which I missed due to being overseas at the time.

317 researchok  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 1:31:13am

re: #316 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Maybe you can take your vacation- now.

I wonder what August is going to bring.

We had a really mild winter so we'll pay for it now.

318 Kragar  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 1:35:15am

Julian Assange to defy surrender notice

WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange has said he will "almost certainly" ignore a surrender notice issued to him by Scotland Yard.

Assange has been inside the Embassy of Ecuador in London since last week seeking political asylum as part of his bid to avoid extradition to Sweden, where he is wanted for questioning about alleged sex offences.

The 40-year-old told the BBC's Newsnight programme that he will not be heeding the note delivered by officers from the Metropolitan Police yesterday morning, telling him to attend Belgravia police station at 11.30am today.

Asked if he would be going to the central London police station, he said: "Our advice is that asylum law both internationally and domestically takes precedence over extradition law so almost certainly not."

319 researchok  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 1:39:29am

re: #318 Kragar

So much for his 'courage' and 'integrity'

320 Kragar  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 1:41:05am

re: #319 researchok

So much for his 'courage' and 'integrity'

Courageously hiding in a foreign embassy as long as the integrity of his bank account holds out.

321 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 1:54:26am

Speaking of hacker stuff, wasn't there a big crackdown the other day? I saw a few comments in a thread of two, but never any large details afterwards.

322 Kragar  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 1:54:33am

And today I will be getting my brand spanking new edition of 40k, so that means more background...

Battle of the Fang

The Battle of the Fang is the name given to the invasion of Fenris by the Thousand Sons Chaos Space Marines and the resultant victorious defence of their homeworld by the Space Wolves Chapter of the Adeptus Astartes. It is most well-known for the direct participation of (and eventual combat between) the Thousand Sons daemon-primarch Magnus the Red and the Space Wolves dreadnought Bjorn the Fell-Handed.[1]

Sabbat Worlds Crusade

The Sabbat Worlds Crusade is the name given to the Imperial effort to liberate the sector of the Segmentum Pacificus of the same name, which began officially in 755.M41.

The sector began to suffer sustained Chaos persecution in the years following 600.M41, and the situation worsened for the Imperial residents and military forces so much that by the year 740 the entire sector could no longer be considered under Imperial governance.

The task of retaking of the sector was eventually given to Warmaster Slaydo, who had petitioned the High Lords of Terra for the mission at the successful conclusion of the Khulan Wars in 754.

323 freetoken  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 2:27:41am
MP3 Audio
324 Obdicut  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 2:35:12am

re: #284 EdDantes

But the Supreme Court said it is a tax. And it is massive so what do you disagree with?

It's not massive, though. It only applies to a very small segment of the population.

325 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 2:57:37am

Hmm. Maybe rain today - I hear thunder.

Yep, it's raining. Might bring the temp down a bit, but the humidity will max out.

326 sattv4u2  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 2:58:25am

re: #325 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Hmm. Maybe rain today - I hear thunder.

Yep, it's raining. Might bring the temp down a bit, but the humidity will max out.

It's only going to be 105 here in Atlanta today!

327 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 4:22:38am

Can someone please explain to me why wingnuts truly believe that HCR means the OPPOSITE of what it really is?

Zedushka, who currently receives over $30,000 worth of federally-paid-for medications, was insisting that HCR means TEH END OF HEALTH CARE AS WE KNOW IT! That NOW HE'LL HAVE TO PAY FOR HIS OWN MEDS and DETH PANELZ!1ty!

I said WTF why are meds so much cheaper in Canada where they have UHC?

He babbled something about the drug companies being in collusion with Medicare and The Canadian Government. I just looked at him and said "That's totally insane! Who told you that?"

He said, "My brother, the doctor!"

I said, "Your brother, the doctor, lives in his car and he has a bazillion dollars which he makes from various Medicaid and Medicare schemes, and now he's scared that his scams might be exposed."

He wailed, "YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE TO PAY FOR MY MEDS NOW!"

I said STOP LISTENING TO RUSH.

328 AK-47%  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 4:33:26am

re: #327 Learned Mother of Zion

This is the triumph of insurance and drug industry PR work: they have old folks shaking in their shoes that somebody is going to ruin their medicare benefits. My older sister (who gets her news from Fox exclusively) says much the same thing.

329 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 5:01:41am

re: #318 Kragar

Julian Assange to defy surrender notice

But leave it to the British police to make a surrender demand sound like an invitation to tea.

330 AK-47%  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 5:02:32am

re: #329 Decatur Deb

No! Not the comfy chair!!!

331 sattv4u2  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 5:05:08am

I wonder how much beach front property is going for??

Saturn moon Titan may harbor ocean below surface

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

332 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 5:05:39am

Morning Lizardim. My family has just increased by one member; my older sister gave birth to a 7 lb 10 oz, 21 in. little boy yesterday in the mid-evening. It is her first baby and my parents' second grandson. Everything else that happened yesterday is kind of a blur, but I suppose this whole Supreme Court hubbub will refresh my memory soon enough.

333 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 5:07:22am

re: #332 thedopefishlives

Morning Lizardim. My family has just increased by one member; my older sister gave birth to a 7 lb 10 oz, 21 in. little boy yesterday in the mid-evening. It is her first baby and my parents' second grandson. Everything else that happened yesterday is kind of a blur, but I suppose this whole Supreme Court hubbub will refresh my memory soon enough.

Congratulations on the uncle-ship!

334 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 5:07:53am

re: #274 freetoken

You'd think so, wouldn't we?

As for the "not possible" part - I really wish that President Obama would have aimed higher while he had his party a majority in the House. At the time I thought the ACA was an overwrought mess, still think it is an overwrought mess (as evidenced today with the extensive court ruling, having in part to modify the Medicaid portion).

If they had it to do all over again, I wonder if the Democrats would not have been better off making a significant enlargement to Medicaid, allowing those who could demonstrate that private insurance companies would not cover them an automatic grant to be covered by Medicaid (no matter the age, under a certain income), and also having Medicaid cover those who could demonstrate than any available insurance was more than an M% above their income.

There would have been no constitutional challenges. Certainly Medicaid would have been the leading Republican campaign issue then, but no more than ACA is now.

Art of the Possible.

335 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 5:22:34am

re: #333 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Congratulations on the uncle-ship!

My first blood nephew, though my wife's family has a grand total of 19 through birth and 1 more added through marriage. This one is special.

336 steve_davis  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 5:26:06am

re: #112 Targetpractice

Cthulhu?

dear god! NEVER whistle while saying "cthulhu." you really don't want to know what could happen if you whistle just right while saying His name. In other news, Cthulhu's vote saved ACA, so He apparently has His moments....

337 steve_davis  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 5:29:26am

re: #219 HappyWarrior

I think Scalia loves the attention he gets. I imagine Roberts who as you point out takes his job seriously while Scalia seems to be in love with getting his name in the paper and on the news. Only one worse than Scalia to me is Thomas due to Thomas's complete lack of intellectual curiosity and lack of questions and subsequently the lack of strong opinions. The latter is the only thing Scalia really has going for him over Thomas. I have to admit I had a more optimistic feeling than I had earlier when I heard about Roberts siding with the left bloc on the Arizona law.

Yes, did you notice that all the opinions were running 45, 50, 56 pages, and then Thomas' apparently was 2 pages. And the first page was probably his title-page, with the second page being in 32-point Helvetica.

338 AK-47%  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 5:29:27am

Is the Pope Cthulic?

339 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 5:34:27am

Hmm. Work email fall down and go boom. Server memory full. :(

340 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 5:39:04am

re: #338 Expand Your Ground

Is the Pope Cthulic?

Does Shub-Niggurath crap in the woods?

341 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 5:46:43am

re: #339 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Hmm. Work email fall down and go boom. Server memory full. :(

How do you even DO that.

Unless you're like our company, which buys tablets with 8GB of memory, but only 3GB can be used because they put a 32-bit operating system on it.

342 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 5:49:51am

re: #341 thedopefishlives

How do you even DO that.

Unless you're like our company, which buys tablets with 8GB of memory, but only 3GB can be used because they put a 32-bit operating system on it.

Got it right off. Servers are 32-bit OS and can't address enough memory to handle the traffic it seems. So one of them locks up every so often and causes issues.

343 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 5:51:37am

re: #342 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Got it right off. Servers are 32-bit OS and can't address enough memory to handle the traffic it seems. So one of them locks up every so often and causes issues.

Still, an email server would have to chunk a whole lot of traffic to burn through 3 or 4 GB of RAM. Unless 1) they aren't maxed out on memory or 2) there's a memory leak somewhere in the system.

344 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 5:54:58am

re: #343 thedopefishlives

Still, an email server would have to chunk a whole lot of traffic to burn through 3 or 4 GB of RAM. Unless 1) they aren't maxed out on memory or 2) there's a memory leak somewhere in the system.

I'm not sure what the issue is. That support is outsourced to HP. I just hear about it due to having a "go to" reputation with a bunch of end-users, so I get called when things break rather than (or before) calling the Helpdesk.

345 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 5:59:19am

re: #344 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

I'm not sure what the issue is. That support is outsourced to HP. I just hear about it due to having a "go to" reputation with a bunch of end-users, so I get called when things break rather than (or before) calling the Helpdesk.

Here, our tech support is outsourced to IBM. They, unfortunately, have a legendary reputation for taking a cursory look at the problem, not even bothering to attempt finding a solution, and instead immediately turning it around as, "Cannot resolve, escalating to internal development." Incompetent boobs.

346 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 6:02:11am

Morning all!

My computer cut-out on me last night.

I've been really upset at the Fox News Drone. It's the projection of doom that frustrates me. Hannity's lead of "SCOTUS approved the largest tax increase ever" is so negative --instead of "Landmark ruling by the SCOTUS" or ""NOW the fight begins . . ."

All the talking heads project this and that negative future --taxes, Jesus and the Founders Intentions . . .over and over.

No one has a crystal ball, I don't think history gives us any precedence in this situation.

I just can't get my blood pressure up over it. I'd rather wait and see how it plays out.

How is your morning so far?

347 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 6:05:02am

re: #345 thedopefishlives

Here, our tech support is outsourced to IBM. They, unfortunately, have a legendary reputation for taking a cursory look at the problem, not even bothering to attempt finding a solution, and instead immediately turning it around as, "Cannot resolve, escalating to internal development." Incompetent boobs.

Depending on what facet you're dealing with here the company can be one of 2-3. And some of them recently changed with a few vendors being dropped (like Accenture) and new support contracts made. One thing that did happen is that the two helpdesk ticket systems consolidated to one (and the better of the two in my opinion.)

The Helpdesk (however) had a poor reputation for responsiveness, and has not done a great deal to improve their image in the past 3-4 months since changing their primary support company. (There's also language issues since the Helpdesk has to handle four languages now as an additional complication.)

348 AK-47%  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 6:05:11am

re: #346 ggt

No one has a crystal ball, I don't think history gives us any precedence in this situation.

Look at almost any other industrialzed nation with universal health care: they pay less and have better benefits.

Germany's health insurance companies are actually running a major surplus this year, the question here is whether to offer a refund to rate-payers or put the money away to cover possible future deficits.

We should be having debates like that instead of the current one...

349 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 6:06:18am

re: #347 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

It's saying something that even our Indian development staff are complaining about our supposed "tech support" team.

350 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 6:11:14am

re: #346 ggt

Morning all!

My computer cut-out on me last night.

I've been really upset at the Fox News Drone. It's the projection of doom that frustrates me. Hannity's lead of "SCOTUS approved the largest tax increase ever" is so negative --instead of "Landmark ruling by the SCOTUS" or ""NOW the fight begins . . ."

All the talking heads project this and that negative future --taxes, Jesus and the Founders Intentions . . .over and over.

No one has a crystal ball, I don't think history gives us any precedence in this situation.

I just can't get my blood pressure up over it. I'd rather wait and see how it plays out.

How is your morning so far?

Extended and tiring so far.

On the plus side the Feline Overlord seems to be on the mend and is coming off a few of his meds (less painkiller stuff). He's also eating better and put on a bit of weight for his last check-up. And he goes in next week again for his eye to be checked out. Since he brings catnip and other treats to the cat hospital I referred to him as "Tricki Woo" there the other day and both the vet and the technician got the reference. :) (Which actually did not surprise me that much.)

351 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 6:15:11am

re: #350 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Extended and tiring so far.

On the plus side the Feline Overlord seems to be on the mend and is coming off a few of his meds (less painkiller stuff). He's also eating better and put on a bit of weight for his last check-up. And he goes in next week again for his eye to be checked out. Since he brings catnip and other treats to the cat hospital I referred to him as "Tricki Woo" there the other day and both the vet and the technician got the reference. :) (Which actually did not surprise me that much.)

He has mental health issues as well? LOL

Glad he seems to be doing better!

352 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 6:16:19am

I just had to post this delectable quote from JREF because it absolutely made my morning. The context of this discussion is a Holocaust denier who is attempting to publish a report proving there was no Holocaust. When asked what journal his peer-reviewed paper would be appearing in, this was his response...

You are insane you actually think I’d give a cultist like you that kind of sensitive information. I will not give the Jews the opportunity to blackmail or threaten anyone before my work is safely in print.

And we would've had him too, if it wasn't for those meddling kids.

353 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 6:16:31am

re: #350 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Extended and tiring so far.

On the plus side the Feline Overlord seems to be on the mend and is coming off a few of his meds (less painkiller stuff). He's also eating better and put on a bit of weight for his last check-up. And he goes in next week again for his eye to be checked out. Since he brings catnip and other treats to the cat hospital I referred to him as "Tricki Woo" there the other day and both the vet and the technician got the reference. :) (Which actually did not surprise me that much.)

All your updates about the Feline Overlord and the current topic of discussion got me wondering, is there such a thing as health insurance for pets?

354 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 6:17:35am

re: #352 thedopefishlives

I just had to post this delectable quote from JREF because it absolutely made my morning. The context of this discussion is a Holocaust denier who is attempting to publish a report proving there was no Holocaust. When asked what journal his peer-reviewed paper would be appearing in, this was his response...

And we would've had him too, if it wasn't for those meddling kids.

You have a link for that?

355 AK-47%  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 6:18:26am

re: #353 Learned Mother of Zion

All your updates about the Feline Overlord and the current topic of discussion got me wondering, is there such a thing as health insurance for pets?

yes, my ex had it for her pets

356 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 6:18:32am

re: #353 Learned Mother of Zion

All your updates about the Feline Overlord and the current topic of discussion got me wondering, is there such a thing as health insurance for pets?

Yes there is actually. I've seen brochures for it at the cat hospital. I don't think the ACA mandate applies for them yet though. ;)

357 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 6:18:52am

re: #354 Learned Mother of Zion

You have a link for that?

[Link: forums.randi.org...]

358 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 6:19:29am

re: #353 Learned Mother of Zion

All your updates about the Feline Overlord and the current topic of discussion got me wondering, is there such a thing as health insurance for pets?

Oh yeah! We've never bought it because for us the numbers never worked-out.

359 AK-47%  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 6:21:05am

re: #358 ggt

Oh yeah! We've never bought it because for us the numbers never worked-out.

If Obama gets his way, you will be forced to buy it...

360 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 6:22:00am

re: #357 thedopefishlives

[Link: forums.randi.org...]

Under the heading for that forum, it said it was a way to discuss *stuff* in a "friendly way".

How does one discuss Holocaust denial with a denier in a "friendly way"?

I don't think I can wrap my head around that one.

361 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 6:22:24am

re: #359 Expand Your Ground

If Obama gets his way, you will be forced to buy it...

did you forget your sarc tag?

LOL

362 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 6:25:52am

Ok, too cute!

363 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 6:26:27am

re: #360 ggt

Under the heading for that forum, it said it was a way to discuss *stuff* in a "friendly way".

How does one discuss Holocaust denial with a denier in a "friendly way"?

I don't think I can wrap my head around that one.

It's not easy. What it boils down to is keeping a punching bag close by to relieve any pent-up fury. For me, it helps to dissociate the topic under discussion from the discussion itself, because all conspiracy theorists talk alike - they just substitute different words depending on which theory they're discussing. A lot of the time, I can argue with a denier or CTer on any subject even without any actual knowledge of my own, simply because they're reciting the same tired talking points as every other CT.

364 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 6:27:12am

The court is too conservative? How consistent is that with this ruling?

It’s perfectly legal to lie about being a military hero, the Supreme Court said Thursday.

[Link: www.wired.com...]

And this one
United States v. Jones

In one of the biggest Fourth Amendment cases blending technology and privacy in a decade, the justices ruled unanimously in January that the authorities need a warrant to affix a GPS device to a vehicle to track its every move. The decision, in a case brought by a convicted drug dealer whose life sentence was overturned, was a blow to the Obama administration, which had argued that Americans have no expectation of privacy in their public movements.

365 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 6:30:52am

re: #364 Daniel Ballard

The court is too conservative? How consistent is that with this ruling?

It’s perfectly legal to lie about being a military hero, the Supreme Court said Thursday.

[Link: www.wired.com...]

It's only illegal if they do it under oath (perjury).

I don't know, I have special respect for our soldiers, but to hold a lie about military service as worse than other lies seems like a Godwin to me.

IF it's not illegal to trample on a US flag . . . .

free speech, buyer beware and all.

366 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 6:32:24am

re: #363 thedopefishlives

It's not easy. What it boils down to is keeping a punching bag close by to relieve any pent-up fury. For me, it helps to dissociate the topic under discussion from the discussion itself, because all conspiracy theorists talk alike - they just substitute different words depending on which theory they're discussing. A lot of the time, I can argue with a denier or CTer on any subject even without any actual knowledge of my own, simply because they're reciting the same tired talking points as every other CT.

My new meme:

the argument goes like this:

1-blah, bah-Jesus!
2-blah, blah -The Constitution
3-blah, blah, The Founding Fathers
4-blah, blah, Jesus!

Is that about right for the CT'ers as well?

367 AK-47%  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 6:34:54am

re: #365 ggt

free speech, buyer beware and all.

i.e., if it is not a commercial or advertising claim about a product/service being sold, then the government is not going to protect you from being gullible and not checking independent sources...

368 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 6:35:37am

re: #366 ggt

My new meme:

the argument goes like this:

1-blah, bah-Jesus!
2-blah, blah -The Constitution
3-blah, blah, The Founding Fathers
4-blah, blah, Jesus!

Is that about right for the CT'ers as well?

Substitute Jews and Israel in the appropriate spots and you've pretty much got it. Although there are CT'ers that do not believe in an international Zionist conspiracy, it's far and away the most popular meme still. Those that don't believe in Da Jooz (tm) are usually the tin-foil-hat wearing "I got probed by an alien" types.

369 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 6:36:18am

re: #367 Expand Your Ground

i.e., if it is not a commercial or advertising claim about a product/service being sold, then the government is not going to protect you from being gullible and not checking independent sources...

So, if you are in a bar and this guy says he is a military hero and now works at JPL --beware!!!

370 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 6:36:41am

re: #368 thedopefishlives

Substitute Jews and Israel in the appropriate spots and you've pretty much got it. Although there are CT'ers that do not believe in an international Zionist conspiracy, it's far and away the most popular meme still. Those that don't believe in Da Jooz (tm) are usually the tin-foil-hat wearing "I got probed by an alien" types.

ah!

5-blah, blah Da Jooz
6-blah, blah Aliens!
7-blah, blah Jesus!

371 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 6:40:07am

re: #370 ggt

ah!

Yeah. Unfortunately, even for the 9/11 Twoofers, the good ol' US of A takes a back seat to our Zionist overlords. I guess we just haven't worked hard enough at being ebil.

372 AK-47%  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 6:41:06am

re: #369 ggt

So, if you are in a bar and this guy says he is a military hero and now works at JPL --beware!!!

Old Russian joke: A woman takes a diamond necklace to a jewller to have it appraised.

"These are just zircons," says the jeweller.

"I've been raped!" shouts the woman.

373 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 6:42:21am

First Death Confirmed From Colorado Springs Wildfire

It's going to be really bad this year -- I hope all area Lizards and frogs are safe!

374 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 6:43:07am

re: #365 ggt

It's only illegal if they do it under oath (perjury).

I don't know, I have special respect for our soldiers, but to hold a lie about military service as worse than other lies seems like a Godwin to me.

IF it's not illegal to trample on a US flag . . .

free speech, buyer beware and all.

The Court was worried that the retiree vets in Florida with hot-shot lawyer sons would start lawsuits on each other over their bragging war stories...
;) /

375 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 6:48:54am

Have to start my day!

Have a good one all!

376 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 6:48:56am

re: #199 SpaceJesus

It's all fake. This whole mandate thing was invented and backed by Republicans and conservative think tanks in the 90s.

Black Man in the White House Syndrome.

Nononono! That's an ebil Liburl lie! They invented it and now are trying to pretend we did so people will think it's a good policy! That nasty

(CENSORED)

in the White House is stealin' our FreeDumbs!

One of the regular wingnuts who comments at NPR has been spewing this line all day. Kinda sad, really, as he's usually not quite that ignorant.

377 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 6:48:56am

re: #368 thedopefishlives

Substitute Jews and Israel in the appropriate spots and you've pretty much got it. Although there are CT'ers that do not believe in an international Zionist conspiracy, it's far and away the most popular meme still. Those that don't believe in Da Jooz (tm) are usually the tin-foil-hat wearing "I got probed by an alien" types.

The probulating aliens are Remulakian Zionist Lords (according to Ludwig)

378 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 6:49:46am

re: #359 Expand Your Ground

If Obama gets his way, you will be forced to buy it...

I wonder how good a coverage Ann's dancing horse has.

379 iossarian  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 6:50:30am

re: #378 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

I wonder how good a coverage Ann's dancing horse has.

If the horse breaks its leg jumping, I reckon Romney stands to make out like a bandit.

380 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 6:57:24am

re: #377 Learned Mother of Zion

The probulating aliens are Remulakian Zionist Lords (according to Ludwig)

Ha, good point.

381 AK-47%  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 7:06:44am

re: #379 iossarian

If the horse breaks its leg jumping, I reckon Romney stands to make out like a bandit.

Wonder if they are gonna strap it to the roof of the car and drive it to London...

382 lawhawk  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 7:13:12am

Greets and saluts from the NYC metro area, in a country that was once the United States of America, which has been forever destroyed as a result of yesterday's ruling.

At least, that's how Republicans and right wing pundits are seeing things. It's the death of the constitution.

Yet, it's not without a heavy dose of irony.

Democrats opposed Roberts at the confirmation hearing are now hailing his ruling yesterday, while GOPers are busy slamming Roberts for judicial activism (all while ignoring that Roberts said that it was the court's job to call balls or strikes, not to hit and pitch).

Romney says he's going to act to repeal the act, all while trying to distance himself from the fact that he was behind the law on which the PPACA was modeled - the Mass Care plan.

Then, there's the fact that the GOP had been pushing the individual mandate in some form for about 20 years, and now they're claiming that it's unconstitutional. They want people to ignore the fact that the GOP is now claiming that a policy position they championed for 2 decades is unconstitutional. So what can anyone make of that spin other than blatant political positioning. Oh wait - they'd like to repeal Obamacare by doing the following Obamacare. They want to deny Obama his signature domestic policy achievement and will say and do anything towards that goal.

Indeed, when polls ask about specific provisions of the law, there's general approval. Yet, those same polls find that the Act as a whole lacks support.

That goes to the success of the media campaign against the Act, and the GOP has benefited from this.

383 iossarian  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 7:13:51am

re: #381 Expand Your Ground

Wonder if they are gonna strap it to the roof of the car and drive it to London...

I heard that Romney is currently lobbying local politicians to allow him to build a diamond-encrusted horse elevator at his $100 billion dollar mansion.

384 Gus  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 7:25:44am

'Morning.

L-O-L...


385 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 7:26:22am

Throbbing butthurt:

386 iossarian  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 7:33:30am

re: #385 Learned Mother of Zion

Throbbing butthurt:

[Embedded content]

Respect the flag! Except when you want to make a political point! Then it's OK to desecrate it! As long as your political point is a right-wing one! Or something!

re: #384 Gus

'Morning.

L-O-L...

[Embedded content]

Government shouldn't spend money! Except when conservatives' homes are burning down! Then there should be lots more federal money for firefighters! Or something!

387 lawhawk  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 7:33:30am

re: #384 Gus

I think Malkin was busy complaining that the President was coming to CO to see the fires and that it would affect the firefighting efforts by tying up resources.

Yet, she's also been complaining that the Administration wasn't doing enough to fight the fires.

So, if the President didn't come, she'd complain as well.

Nothing this President does will satisfy those opposed to him...

388 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 7:34:03am

David Frum is a puke Bush tool, who is still able to inspire a small but infuriating sense of pity. Here's his morning piece from Daily Beast:

[Link: www.thedailybeast.com...]

389 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 7:34:52am

re: #385 Learned Mother of Zion

Throbbing butthurt:

[Embedded content]

Which reminds me, I have to hang my flag outside. Right side up, of course. Because I'm a real American, and not a chickenshit derpy bastard.

390 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 7:36:03am

re: #389 thedopefishlives

Which reminds me, I have to hang my flag outside. Right side up, of course. Because I'm a real American, and not a chickenshit derpy bastard.

My flagpole bracket needs to be reseated.

391 Gus  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 7:36:22am

Test


392 Bulworth  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 7:36:28am

The National Teabagger Liberation Front has announced that it doesn't want any healthcare rammed down its throat as long as other people also get healthcare. Also, too: hands off our healthcare. /

393 Gus  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 7:36:40am

1, 2, 3.

394 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 7:36:53am

re: #393 Gus

1, 2, 3.

Ping time: 327 ms

395 Gus  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 7:37:29am

OK. Screwy morning with my apps today. Posting is sending me to the top. Another app driving me crazy last night and this morning. Forking aye.

396 Gus  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 7:38:34am

Take 2.

397 iossarian  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 7:41:43am

Exxon CEO admits global warming is real, attempts to claim that it isn't a big deal (reposted via Slashdot):

[Link: thetyee.ca...]

398 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 7:42:10am

re: #393 Gus

1, 2, 3.

Ah, I haven't seen that film in a while.
:)

399 Gus  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 7:42:22am

Not seeing the Tweets right either.

400 Patricia Kayden  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 7:43:00am

11 things you get now that obamacare survived.

[Link: princecampbell.typepad.com...]

401 AK-47%  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 7:46:58am

Sen. Rand Paul: ObamaCare Isn’t Constitutional ‘Just Because A Couple People On The Supreme Court’ Say So

Is armed insurrection justified or mandatory at this point?

/

402 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 7:47:57am

Mitt Romney says 'Obamacare' adds trillions to the deficit

The CBO said this about the health care law back in 2010: It lowers the deficit, by about $124 billion over 10 years.

And in 2011, when Republicans offered a bill to repeal the health care law, the CBO said that increased the deficit, by about $210 billion over 10 years.

403 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 7:48:28am

re: #401 Expand Your Ground

Sen. Rand Paul: ObamaCare Isn’t Constitutional ‘Just Because A Couple People On The Supreme Court’ Say So

Is armed insurrection justified or mandatory at this point?

/

He bows to Aqua Buddha, so you know that no mortals shall sway him from his expected trajectory.
/

404 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 7:51:54am

Good morning lizards!

I chased one rabbit out of the garden yesterday morning. I think I blocked the little entrance he discovered. He was hopping around outside the fence when I went out back today.

405 celticdragon  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 7:53:06am

re: #313 researchok

Triangle could hit its 'hottest temperature ever'

I live in Greensboro. We are bracing for the heat wave.

406 danarchy  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 7:55:00am

re: #382 lawhawk

Indeed, when polls ask about specific provisions of the law, there's general approval. Yet, those same polls find that the Act as a whole lacks support.

That goes to the success of the media campaign against the Act, and the GOP has benefited from this.

I keep hearing this over and over, but what it ignores is that you can't just look at a provision here and a provision there and ask if you like it. If there was a survey that asked me if I would like it if the government gave me a million dollars I would say hell yes, but if the consequence is they have to print so much money that it devalues that million dollars to a point where it is worthless, then not so much.

I think most people who like provisions of the bill but not the whole are just skeptical about whether it is going to cost what they claim, whether it will have unintended consequences, whether it will really reduce costs, is the primary care physician shortage that we already have going to be exacerbated, etc.

407 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 7:55:44am

Flavor Is Price of Scarlet Hue of Tomatoes, Study Finds

The discovery “is one piece of the puzzle about why the modern tomato stinks,” said Harry Klee, a tomato researcher at the University of Florida in Gainesville who was not involved in the research. “That mutation has been introduced into almost all modern tomatoes. Now we can say that in trying to make the fruit prettier, they reduced some of the important compounds that are linked to flavor.”

The mutation’s effect was a real surprise, said James J. Giovannoni of the United States Department of Agriculture Research Service, an author of the paper. He called the wide adoption of tomatoes that ripen uniformly “a story of unintended consequences.”

Breeders stumbled upon the variety about 70 years ago and saw commercial potential. Consumers like tomatoes that are red all over, but ripe tomatoes normally had a ring of green, yellow or white at the stem end. Producers of tomatoes used in tomato sauce or ketchup also benefited. Growers harvest this crop all at once, Dr. Giovannoni said, and “with the uniform ripening gene, it is easier to determine when the tomatoes are ripe.”

Stick with open pollinated heirloom varieties and don't shy away from the ugly ones.

408 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 7:55:57am

re: #405 celticdragon

I live in Greensboro. We are bracing for the heat wave.

Yes, it's that time of year again. I hope it doesn't burn up the garden again this year.

409 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 7:57:01am
But were the genetically engineered tomatoes more flavorful? Because Department of Agriculture regulations forbid the consumption of experimental produce, no one tasted them.

And, Dr. Giovannoni says, do not look for those genetically engineered tomatoes at the grocery store. Producers would not dare to make such a tomato for fear that consumers would reject it.

But, Dr. Powell said, there is a way around the issue. Heirloom tomatoes and many wild species do not have the uniform ripening mutation. “The idea is to get the vegetable seed industry interested,” Dr. Powell said.

410 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 7:57:36am

re: #407 Killgore Trout

Flavor Is Price of Scarlet Hue of Tomatoes, Study Finds

Stick with open pollinated heirloom varieties and don't shy away from the ugly ones.

One of my daughters eats them like candy. I'm glad we have 29 plants growing or we wouldn't have much left at the end of the season.

411 wrenchwench  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 7:58:15am

re: #407 Killgore Trout

Flavor Is Price of Scarlet Hue of Tomatoes, Study Finds

Stick with open pollinated heirloom varieties and don't shy away from the ugly ones.

Researchok Paged that yesterday, about 500 Pages ago for him.

412 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 7:58:46am

re: #401 Expand Your Ground

Sen. Rand Paul: ObamaCare Isn’t Constitutional ‘Just Because A Couple People On The Supreme Court’ Say So

Is armed insurrection justified or mandatory at this point?

/

No, but I think a spanking would be appropriate for a child pretending to be a senator.

413 makeitstop  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 7:59:36am

re: #393 Gus

Reasons to be cheerful....

1, 2, 3.

414 allegro  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 7:59:49am

re: #412 William Barnett-Lewis

No, but I think a spanking would be appropriate for a child pretending to be a senator.

I think it's bad to reward stupid behavior.

415 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 8:07:30am

re: #410 NJDhockeyfan

One of my daughters eats them like candy. I'm glad we have 29 plants growing or we wouldn't have much left at the end of the season.

29? Damn. I have five or six in the greenhouse and I can barely keep up with them.

416 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 8:08:00am

Alouette's Page's article has a high creep factor...

Doofus of the Day: Jew-Hating Elmo Freaks Out in Central Park

From the NYT link:

...Mr. Sandler said he has a bachelor’s degree from the University of Oregon, which the university confirmed. He later traveled to Cambodia and started a pornographic Web site called “Welcome to the Rape Camp.”

“I had a sex scandal,” he said.

...The site was the subject of an article in 2000 in the Journal of Sexual Aggression, titled, “ ‘Welcome to the Rape Camp’: Sexual Exploitation and the Internet in Cambodia,” by Donna M. Hughes, a professor at the University of Rhode Island.

Contacted on Wednesday, Ms. Hughes remembered the article and Mr. Sandler well. She said that after the article was published, she received several e-mail and voice mail messages from a man identifying himself as Mr. Sandler.

“I was the man who produced the rapecamp site,” the first e-mail began.

The messages were chilling. She forwarded several to The New York Times.

In one message, the man said he had had sex with a number of young girls in exchange for money in Cambodia.

...He sees no bearing on his role as Elmo from his past work on a pornographic site. “It’s not illegal,” he said, pointing to other people’s sex scandals.

On Tuesday, a mother approached the costumed Mr. Sandler, pushing a sleeping toddler in a stroller. “Will you be here tomorrow?” she asked. “She loves Elmo.”

Yikes!

417 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 8:09:53am

re: #415 Killgore Trout

29? Damn. I have five or six in the greenhouse and I can barely keep up with them.

We make lots of tomato sauce and canned tomatoes to last us all winter and I make hot sauce with it as well. I have 23 pepper plants growing too.

418 erik_t  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 8:11:03am

re: #407 Killgore Trout

Flavor Is Price of Scarlet Hue of Tomatoes, Study Finds

Stick with open pollinated heirloom varieties and don't shy away from the ugly ones.

Of course, it seems like half the damned population sticks their tomatoes in the fridge right after they get home from the store. Seems like it'd be lost on them...

419 lawhawk  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 8:12:57am

This looks cool... not sure when it's coming out though

[Link: gawker.com...]

The Man With the Iron Fists...

420 wrenchwench  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 8:13:51am

re: #409 Killgore Trout

There's the key quote:

But were the genetically engineered tomatoes more flavorful? Because Department of Agriculture regulations forbid the consumption of experimental produce, no one tasted them.

Even though the point of that particular research was not making a tasty tomato, it seems the policy would result in the situation we have now, good-looking, bad-tasting commercial tomatoes.

421 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 8:15:46am

re: #415 Killgore Trout

29? Damn. I have five or six in the greenhouse and I can barely keep up with them.

Normally we do fine with 6-8 tomato and pepper plants, but this year is weird. All our plants are about 2/3 grown and just sitting there. They fruit a couple goodies at a time, and our cucumbers went into Reine's twisted mode for a while. They seem to be recovering. Going to pull a soil test and send it off to the extension agent.

422 lawhawk  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 8:17:52am

re: #421 Decatur Deb

My tomato plants have been growing at a prodigious rate, and should be bearing bunches within days (already gotten a few goodies). The cukes are all flowering, and already gathered one full size; a few others are growing, but awkwardly.

Pepper plants are somewhat struggling, though it looks like the hot weather will do them good.

Zucchinis are doing well, and should have a bumper crop for zucchini bread in a few weeks time.

423 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 8:17:57am

re: #420 wrenchwench

There's the key quote:

Even though the point of that particular research was not making a tasty tomato, it seems the policy would result in the situation we have now, good-looking, bad-tasting commercial tomatoes.

That's one of the biggest problems with our food industry. The public will only buy "perfect" looking produce. If you've ever grown carrots you'll know that very rarely are the straight and uniform single roots. Potatoes are the same way. All of that cosmetically "imperfect" food can't be sold and end up in animal feed or just thrown away. There's a huge amount of waste in modern farming.

424 blueraven  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 8:19:52am

re: #420 wrenchwench

There's the key quote:

Even though the point of that particular research was not making a tasty tomato, it seems the policy would result in the situation we have now, good-looking, bad-tasting commercial tomatoes.

Even so, they could have smelled them! I grow my own too, but when I buy fruits and vegetables that are commercially grown, I judge flavor by thumping, squeezing and sniffing.

If you have a tomato with no discernible smell, it wont taste good.

425 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 8:19:55am

re: #423 Killgore Trout

That's one of the biggest problems with our food industry. The public will only buy "perfect" looking produce. If you've ever grown carrots you'll know that very rarely are the straight and uniform single roots. Potatoes are the same way. All of that cosmetically "imperfect" food can't be sold and end up in animal feed or just thrown away. There's a huge amount of waste in modern farming.

There was a spectacular show on Food Network on exactly this. Several celebrity chefs ran around to various food stores and only picked up food that was going to waste. It was all perfectly good, it just didn't look good enough to be put on the shelves to be sold. They were able to cook a full dinner for a room full of people with "wasted" ingredients. And I mean good stuff, too.

426 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 8:21:04am

re: #422 lawhawk

My tomato plants have been growing at a prodigious rate, and should be bearing bunches within days (already gotten a few goodies). The cukes are all flowering, and already gathered one full size; a few others are growing, but awkwardly.

Pepper plants are somewhat struggling, though it looks like the hot weather will do them good.

Zucchinis are doing well, and should have a bumper crop for zucchini bread in a few weeks time.

I picked one zucchini and one squash this morning with a handful of cherry tomatoes. It's just getting started. If I can keep the rabbits out I should be picking green beans by the 5 gallon bucket in a few weeks.

427 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 8:21:55am

re: #426 NJDhockeyfan

I picked one zucchini and one squash this morning with a handful of cherry tomatoes. It's just getting started. If I can keep the rabbits out I should be picking green beans by the 5 gallon bucket in a few weeks.

We have bucketfuls of lettuce from our garden. Outdoor Cat keeps the pests down and whatever didn't get killed off by the snap frost this spring has been going gangbusters. We missed out on tomatoes and peppers this year, though.

428 wrenchwench  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 8:22:28am

re: #423 Killgore Trout

That's one of the biggest problems with our food industry. The public will only buy "perfect" looking produce. If you've ever grown carrots you'll know that very rarely are the straight and uniform single roots. Potatoes are the same way. All of that cosmetically "imperfect" food can't be sold and end up in animal feed or just thrown away. There's a huge amount of waste in modern farming.

Consumer education helps. People will pay more for ugly, good tasting produce if it's 'organic', 'heritage', 'locally grown', etc. The opposite of the 'pink slime' phenomenon. (Notice that when the pink slime hit the fan, nobody brought up the subject of what's in hot dogs.)

429 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 8:23:07am

re: #424 blueraven

Even so, they could have smelled them! I grow my own too, but when I buy fruits and vegetables that are commercially grown, I judge flavor by thumping, squeezing and sniffing.

If you have a tomato with no discernible smell, it wont taste good.

I find store tomatoes generally not-so-red and not soft like fresh ones and they taste is bland. I wish there was a way to freeze fresh ones and save them for later.

430 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 8:23:46am

re: #422 lawhawk

My tomato plants have been growing at a prodigious rate, and should be bearing bunches within days (already gotten a few goodies). The cukes are all flowering, and already gathered one full size; a few others are growing, but awkwardly.

Pepper plants are somewhat struggling, though it looks like the hot weather will do them good.

Zucchinis are doing well, and should have a bumper crop for zucchini bread in a few weeks time.

We are about 6 weeks ahead of you on the growing season. By now my hoophouse garden should look like a green tunnel under its bird netting. A few container plants are doing well (sweet potato vines have grown out of their 22qt containers and up the nearby redtops--about 12 feet up.) Edible kudzu hybrid? We'll be rich, I tells ya.

431 iossarian  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 8:23:58am

re: #423 Killgore Trout

That's one of the biggest problems with our food industry. The public will only buy "perfect" looking produce. If you've ever grown carrots you'll know that very rarely are the straight and uniform single roots. Potatoes are the same way. All of that cosmetically "imperfect" food can't be sold and end up in animal feed or just thrown away. There's a huge amount of waste in modern farming.

Not disagreeing with you but putting malformed vegetables into animal feed (or indeed into soup etc.) is not really "waste".

The vast production of meat for consumption is a significant driver of CO2 emissions though, which is another factor in the game.

432 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 8:26:11am

re: #426 NJDhockeyfan

I picked one zucchini and one squash this morning with a handful of cherry tomatoes. It's just getting started. If I can keep the rabbits out I should be picking green beans by the 5 gallon bucket in a few weeks.

Wherever our old pages go has last year photos of the hoophouse. In summer it supports bird/deer netting that keeps out freeloaders.

433 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 8:27:56am

re: #429 NJDhockeyfan

I find store tomatoes generally not-so-red and not soft like fresh ones and they taste is bland. I wish there was a way to freeze fresh ones and save them for later.

I dry excess Romas with a stackable dehydrator. It's amazing how many it takes to make a quart or so of the dried. Eat them like candy.

434 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 8:28:19am

re: #430 Decatur Deb

Edible kudzu hybrid? We'll be rich, I tells ya.

Kudzu Blossom Jelly

Ingredients:

4 cups kudzu blossoms (make sure that they haven't been sprayed with chemicals)
4 cups boiling water
1 tablespoon lemon juice
1 (1 3/4 ounce) package powdered fruit pectin
5 cups sugar

Directions:
1 Wash kudzu blossoms with cold water, drain well and place them in a large bowl.
2 Pour 4 cups boiling water over blossoms, and refrigerate 8 hours or overnight.
3 Strain liquid through a colander into a Dutch oven, discarding blossoms.
4 Add lemon juice and pectin; bring to a full rolling boil over high heat, stirring constantly.
5 Stir in sugar; return to a full rolling boil, and boil, stirring constantly, 1 minute.
6 Remove from heat; skim off foam with a spoon.
7 Quickly pour jelly into hot, sterilized jars; filling to 1/4 inch from top.
8 Wipe jar rims.
9Cover at once with metal lids, and screw on bands.
10 Process in boiling water bath 5 minutes.
11 Cool jars on wire racks.
12 NOTE: Blossom liquid is gray until lemon juice is added.

435 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 8:30:16am

re: #434 NJDhockeyfan

Kudzu Blossom Jelly

Cool. The kudzu root is an edible starch, but so deep that it's almost a net calorie loss to dig them.

436 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 8:30:32am

re: #428 wrenchwench

Consumer education helps. People will pay more for ugly, good tasting produce if it's 'organic', 'heritage', 'locally grown', etc. The opposite of the 'pink slime' phenomenon. (Notice that when the pink slime hit the fan, nobody brought up the subject of what's in hot dogs.)

Also not mentioned in the Pink Slime debate was mechanically separated chicken meat which is the poultry version of the same thing.

437 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 8:31:42am

[Link: www.nydailynews.com...]
E tu Rick? Though Romney hasn't exactly been embracing Romneycare as of late.

438 lawhawk  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 8:32:03am

re: #423 Killgore Trout

It's why those baby carrot packages are huge business. They can chip down the carrots to uniform sizes/shapes.

439 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 8:33:08am

re: #436 Killgore Trout

More on the subject of meat, I had a good laugh a couple of weeks back. A friend of mine said he went to a California bar and paid some ridiculous price like $30 for a Kobe beef hamburger. I gently broke the news to him that Kobe beef is not available in the United States; it is a legal trademark only in Japan, and furthermore, it was banned from the US in 2010 due to concerns over hoof-and-mouth disease. (Waygu beef, the American equivalent, does not meet the strict requirements of the Kobe trademark.) He was incensed that the vendor would lie to him, and got in an argument with the owner on Facebook over it. I was amused.

440 darthstar  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 8:35:46am

After that supreme smack-down of his health care law, the President could use some good news...oh, wait...the Affordable Care Act was upheld...how about a little cherry on top of that dessert, Mr. President?

441 lawhawk  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 8:35:54am

Here's a n update on arson attacks against shuls in Bergen County. One of the two people charged has now been charged with conspiracy to kill a prosecutor following the discovery of a plot to kill him along with a list of other "enemies". Bail had been reduced at the appellate level to $1 million claiming the original amount of $2.5 million was excessive. The judge has increased the bail to $3 million in light of the new charges.

442 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 8:36:35am

re: #440 darthstar

After that supreme smack-down of his health care law, the President could use some good news...oh, wait...the Affordable Care Act was upheld...how about a little cherry on top of that dessert, Mr. President?

[Embedded content]

What happened in Germany?

443 wrenchwench  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 8:37:43am

re: #432 Decatur Deb

Wherever our old pages go has last year photos of the hoophouse. In summer it supports bird/deer netting that keeps out freeloaders.

You can find your own pretty easily in your Dashboard with a keyword, which doesn't have to be a tag you used. Then you can post a link for the rest of us. :)

444 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 8:38:27am

re: #443 wrenchwench

You can find your own pretty easily in your Dashboard with a keyword, which doesn't have to be a tag you used. Then you can post a link for the rest of us. :)

Hmm. scramble, scramble...

445 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 8:38:30am

re: #439 thedopefishlives

This, by the way, is why I am amused by food snobs. At the end of the day, a cut of meat is a cut of meat. Sure, one can argue endlessly about marbling and fat content and muscle density, but the end result is the same: You season it, you cook it, you eat it, it tastes good. The only reason I pay extra for meat is to get fresh cuts on occasion instead of frozen.

446 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 8:38:40am

[Link: www.politifact.com...]
I see Mitt is desperately desperate.

447 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 8:39:09am

I have been searching for explanations of exactly how people will be HARMED by HCR.

So far the only reasons I have found is that HCR might "harm" doctors by (1) increasing their patient load (2) they might not get PAID as much as they are used to.

In other words, it's going to SUCK for my cheap ass brother-in-law, the homeless doctor who lives in his car, that even though he makes a bazillion dollars, he might not get bazillion and one dollars.

448 darthstar  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 8:39:49am

re: #442 HappyWarrior

What happened in Germany?

Italy and Spain got Germany to agree to help avoid an avoidable economic crisis.

449 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 8:40:12am

re: #448 darthstar

Italy and Spain got Germany to agree to help avoid an avoidable economic crisis.

Ah good news then.

450 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 8:40:53am

re: #442 HappyWarrior

sounds like Merkel caved and they're going to allow Spain and Italy to have access to bailout funds etc.

451 blueraven  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 8:41:32am

re: #449 HappyWarrior

Ah good news then.

Market response: Dow up 223

452 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 8:41:43am

re: #444 Decatur Deb

Hmm. scramble, scramble...

Here 'tis:
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

453 darthstar  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 8:42:35am

re: #449 HappyWarrior

Ah good news then.

It'll piss off the Republicans, because European austerity measures had been threatening to bring down the global economy (which is what Romney's campaign was counting on)...if the EU survives, then there's less damage done to our economy, and Americans continue to prosper. Nothing pisses of a GOP campaign team more that seeing Americans prosper when they're not the party in power. All that happiness with the current president...ick!

454 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 8:43:58am

Regarding HCR- The thing that bugs me most is Romney and the Republicans are just saying repeal Obamacare blah blah but what's their solution? Romney just says vague crap about repealing it yet at the same time keeping popular provisions like the preexisting conditions clause. And now he's saying it will increase the deficit by trillions. This campaign really is looking more and more like the 1948 one albeit without a Henry Wallace and Strom Thurmond type.

455 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 8:44:31am

re: #453 darthstar

It'll piss off the Republicans, because European austerity measures had been threatening to bring down the global economy (which is what Romney's campaign was counting on)...if the EU survives, then there's less damage done to our economy, and Americans continue to prosper. Nothing pisses of a GOP campaign team more that seeing Americans prosper when they're not the party in power. All that happiness with the current president...ick!

Yeah, I see that.

456 darthstar  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 8:45:08am

Image: 417478_10151067798359343_1961847147_n.jpg

457 lawhawk  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 8:46:46am

re: #447 Learned Mother of Zion

The largest group that could claim an adverse effect is small businesses who are now being told to provide health care benefits where they weren't required previously. It will likely add to their bureaucratic costs, but that could be offset by having a healthier workforce.

Another group would be those who may have previously opted out of getting health care insurance and are now find themselves having to pay more out of pocket to obtain insurance or alternatively pay the IM penalty provision. That's the group of people who would also benefit from the exchanges required to be set up under the Act and who the GOP are claiming will be hit by a huge tax.

It's true that they'd be hit by a tax, if they don't get health insurance, but having that insurance opens up a wide range of preventative care options that were previously unavailable.

On the whole, that's a net plus to the person who previously didn't have health insurance.

458 wrenchwench  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 8:47:48am

re: #452 Decatur Deb

Here 'tis:
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Nice!

Oh, look. A comment from the long lost Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton, aka Sergey. I guess it's only been 2 weeks, but he's missed a lot of dobro slides.

459 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 8:47:59am

Back on the topic, some people are claiming that their employer-provided insurance is supposedly going to skyrocket. Is this just fearmongering? Where did this come from?

460 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 8:48:18am

re: #458 wrenchwench

Nice!

Oh, look. A comment from the long lost Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton, aka Sergey. I guess it's only been 2 weeks, but he's missed a lot of dobro slides.

What happened to Sergey? I've missed him.

461 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 8:50:03am

I think the decision is going to make Romney perhaps take a bigger gamble than he would have before with his running mate selection. The USSC court decision cites Romney's health care plan in Massachusetts as precedent. Romney more than ever needs to show he's not Obama like to the base. Not sure who he will go with but I wouldn't be shocked if he finds himself in a similar position to McCain and throws a Hail Mary pass to the base.

462 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 8:50:40am

This is a truly evil tick...

Bug Bites Can Turn You Vegetarian

Have you heard about the bug bite that can turn you into a vegetarian? That story made the front page of my browser this week, and my wife heard it as part of a newsbreak on her favorite Christian radio station.

It seems researchers believe that a large number of people who have developed allergic reactions to red meat acquired the allergy after being bitten by a tick. According to University of Virginia researchers, “Of the over 1,500 people who have now reported meat allergies to the researchers, at least 90% say they were bitten by ticks in the weeks preceding their allergic reaction.” (See the story here.)

The cases are located in Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maryland, Mississippi, Missouri, North Carolina, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas and Virginia. Allergy clusters have been reported in Pennsylvania and New York as well.

The researchers believe the Lone Star Tick is producing an immune response to alpha-gal in humans, which causes the allergic reaction to meat. The allergy presents itself 4-6 hours after consumption of beef, pork or lamb and the symptoms can vary from hives to anaphylactic shock. There’s speculation that this allergy could be caused by a new organism found in the saliva of these bugs. Researchers don’t have a lot of answers at this point, but it appears the allergy lasts 3-5 years and can be even more severe if the subject is bitten again.

I don't know what I would do with myself if I couldn't eat beef or pork.

463 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 8:50:45am

re: #460 thedopefishlives

What happened to Sergey? I've missed him.

Yeah I do too. Used to really enjoy discussing Russian history with him which is such an infinitely fascinating subject.

464 wrenchwench  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 8:51:03am

re: #460 thedopefishlives

What happened to Sergey? I've missed him.

He's one of those mysterious posters who disappears for a while now and then. Charles said he's on a Twitter Gulag reconnaissance mission, so maybe he knows.

465 AK-47%  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 8:51:58am

re: #460 thedopefishlives

What happened to Sergey? I've missed him.

was just about to ask myself

466 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 8:52:01am

re: #464 wrenchwench

He's one of those mysterious posters who disappears for a while now and then. Charles said he's on a Twitter Gulag reconnaissance mission, so maybe he knows.

Ah. Well, here's to him. Hopefully he doesn't get caught and dragged off to the Twitter Anti-Gulag. *raises Coke*

467 Obdicut  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 8:52:43am

re: #464 wrenchwench

I think that was humor. If Sergey didn't live in Russia I wouldn't be at all worried, but since he's talked about Putin investigating the homes of demonstrators, I'm actually slightly worried. I've emailed one of his compatriots who fights holocaust denial with him; haven't heard back.

468 danarchy  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 8:52:50am

re: #461 HappyWarrior

I think the decision is going to make Romney perhaps take a bigger gamble than he would have before with his running mate selection. The USSC court decision cites Romney's health care plan in Massachusetts as precedent. Romney more than ever needs to show he's not Obama like to the base. Not sure who he will go with but I wouldn't be shocked if he finds himself in a similar position to McCain and throws a Hail Mary pass to the base.

Not sure he is going to have a base issue as evidenced by the huge amount of fundraising he received after the ruling came down. The base may not trust him, but they hate Obama, they will be voting and Romney get's it by default.

469 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 8:53:09am

re: #462 NJDhockeyfan

This is a truly evil tick...

Bug Bites Can Turn You Vegetarian

I don't know what I would do with myself if I couldn't eat beef or pork.

Turfuduken

470 darthstar  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 8:53:32am

re: #459 thedopefishlives

Back on the topic, some people are claiming that their employer-provided insurance is supposedly going to skyrocket. Is this just fearmongering? Where did this come from?

Fear mongering. My wife just asked me how the bill will be funded and I did some googling, and found this PDF from the ACP.

[Link: www.acponline.org...]

Facts...they're pretty fucking cool.

471 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 8:54:01am

re: #468 danarchy

Not sure he is going to have a base issue as evidenced by the huge amount of fundraising he received after the ruling came down. The base may not trust him, but they hate Obama, they will be voting and Romney get's it by default.

I remember 2004, the Dem base hated hated Bush granted not as much as the Repub base seems to hate Obama but he needs more than Obama hate to get out the base.

472 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 8:55:02am

re: #448 darthstar

Italy and Spain got Germany to agree to help avoid an avoidable economic crisis.

The Euro-cup semi-finals must have taken the place of the usual game of "Rock/Scissors/Paper" ...

/sometimes I'm not so sure that would be a joke though...

473 darthstar  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 8:56:33am

re: #461 HappyWarrior

I think the decision is going to make Romney perhaps take a bigger gamble than he would have before with his running mate selection. The USSC court decision cites Romney's health care plan in Massachusetts as precedent. Romney more than ever needs to show he's not Obama like to the base. Not sure who he will go with but I wouldn't be shocked if he finds himself in a similar position to McCain and throws a Hail Mary pass to the base.

He should pick Palin. First, she's still listing herself as "Former Alaska governer and GOP Vice-Presidential Nominee" on twitter, so she won't have to change that - it doesn't say 'former nominee'...and second, she's used to accusing President Obama of creating death panels.

Win-win! (Win for the media, though they're probably bored with her, and a win for Obama in November).

474 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 8:58:00am

re: #473 darthstar

He should pick Palin. First, she's still listing herself as "Former Alaska governer and GOP Vice-Presidential Nominee" on twitter, so she won't have to change that - it doesn't say 'former nominee'...and second, she's used to accusing President Obama of creating death panels.

Win-win! (Win for the media, though they're probably bored with her, and a win for Obama in November).

Hahaha I'd drink a fifth of tequila if he did that. But I get the impression Romney probably looks down on Palin. Not that would preclude him from choosing someone like that mind you.

475 wrenchwench  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 8:58:36am

re: #467 Obdicut

I think that was humor. If Sergey didn't live in Russia I wouldn't be at all worried, but since he's talked about Putin investigating the homes of demonstrators, I'm actually slightly worried. I've emailed one of his compatriots who fights holocaust denial with him; haven't heard back.

Yeah, I didn't take it literally, but I figured Charles was less likely to joke about it if he didn't know something.

I hate it when people disappear.

476 darthstar  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 8:59:07am

re: #474 HappyWarrior

Hahaha I'd drink a fifth of tequila if he did that. But I get the impression Romney probably looks down on Palin. Not that would preclude him from choosing someone like that mind you.

Rest assured, whatever decision Romney makes, it won't be his own.

477 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 8:59:28am

re: #476 darthstar

Rest assured, whatever decision Romney makes, it won't be his own.

And that sums up Mitt Romney in a nutshell.

478 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 9:01:15am

re: #476 darthstar

Rest assured, whatever decision Romney makes, it won't be his own.

Yeah. I guess the interesting thing would be to look at his vetting committee. Aren't they usually campaign manager types? So I guess I'd look at who the head of Romney's vetting has worked with before. People tend to gravitate towards people they're familiar with.

479 AK-47%  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 9:04:40am

re: #476 darthstar

Rest assured, whatever decision Romney makes, it won't be his own.

And that would continue if he were elected. I expect that he would try to pursue a fairly centrist economic policy, one that differs only in degree from Obama's.

But in order to gain support within his own party, he would have to roll over on every extreme social policy initiative that they force on him.

480 The Ghost of a Flea  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 9:05:13am

re: #429 NJDhockeyfan

I find store tomatoes generally not-so-red and not soft like fresh ones and they taste is bland. I wish there was a way to freeze fresh ones and save them for later.

Ever heard of the book Tomatoland?

It's a good, if unsettling, read about how industrial agriculture gets tomatoes to market. Picked while green; ethylene gassed so it turns red on the outside while still green on the inside; absolutely marinated in pesticide. The entire theory is to create a product that ships well and has good color. Taste is not a consideration.

It's pretty much a confirmation that the complaints in this thread (and in general) about tasteless, hard tomatoes is not some subjective impression. It's a straight-up biological reality.

The labor issues around tomatoes are also completely horrifying--undocumented labor, slavery, "company store" setups, retaliatory violence against labor complaints. And lots of cancer, because everyone ignores the warning on the pesticides and puts their workers into the field while the stuff is still wet on the plants.

I've stopped buying "Florida tomatoes" entirely. I'm not a gardener at all, but I've started dabbling my toes in raised beds and tomato plants.

481 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 9:06:28am

re: #456 darthstar

Image: 417478_10151067798359343_1961847147_n.jpg

And they also won't understand icing either.

482 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 9:07:53am

re: #480 The Ghost of a Flea

Ever heard of the book Tomatoland?

It's a good, if unsettling, read about how industrial agriculture gets tomatoes to market. Picked while green; ethylene gassed so it turns red on the outside while still green on the inside; absolutely marinated in pesticide. The entire theory is to create a product that ships well and has good color. Taste is not a consideration.

It's pretty much a confirmation that the complaints in this thread (and in general) about tasteless, hard tomatoes is not some subjective impression. It's a straight-up biological reality.

The labor issues around tomatoes are also completely horrifying--undocumented labor, slavery, "company store" setups, retaliatory violence against labor complaints. And lots of cancer, because everyone ignores the warning on the pesticides and puts their workers into the field while the stuff is still wet on the plants.

I've stopped buying "Florida tomatoes" entirely. I'm not a gardener at all, but I've started dabbling my toes in raised beds and tomato plants.

Ethylene oxide is the toxin used in old hospital 'gas-claves'. It produces worker fatalities and some really nasty reproductive effects on over-exposure of a very small threshold limit value.

Note: it also occurs naturally, but not in the concentrations used industrially.

483 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 9:09:45am

re: #480 The Ghost of a Flea

That's great information. Here is more info on that.

POLITICS OF THE PLATE: THE PRICE OF TOMATOES

If you have eaten a tomato this winter, chances are very good that it was picked by a person who lives in virtual slavery.

484 darthstar  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 9:11:34am

Interesting read at Salon...

Did John Roberts switch his vote?

It is impossible for a lawyer to read even the first few pages of the dissent without coming away with the impression that this is a majority opinion that at the last moment lost its fifth vote. Its structure and tone are those of a winning coalition, not that of the losing side in the most controversial Supreme Court case in many years. But when we get to Page 13, far more conclusive evidence appears: No less than 15 times in the space of the next few pages, the dissent refers to Ruth Bader Ginsburg’s concurring opinion as “Justice Ginsburg’s dissent.”

485 lawhawk  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 9:14:36am

re: #480 The Ghost of a Flea

You'll find that home grown tomatoes - regardless of what variety you end up with - will consistently taste better than the store bought stuff. Sweeter, jucier, and tastier.

There are a few exceptions - Uglyripes for example are quite good (and expensive), some heirlooms that stores are now carrying, and some hothouse tomatoes (like those from Israel).

And there's been an ongoing fight about the tomato standards - which are all based on appearance, not taste.

486 darthstar  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 9:15:34am

re: #483 NJDhockeyfan

I buy my tomatoes from the slaves who set up tents across the street every Sunday...oh, wait...they're just local farmers and not slaves at all.

Hothouse tomatoes don't taste like anything.

487 The Ghost of a Flea  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 9:15:49am

re: #483 NJDhockeyfan

That's great information. Here is more info on that.

POLITICS OF THE PLATE: THE PRICE OF TOMATOES

Estabrook's the author of Tomatoland, as well. I think it's won a James Beard award, too.

I think I've seen his name in multiple locations yet never added up that it was the same guy. Context-dependent memory I guess.

488 darthstar  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 9:17:22am

re: #485 lawhawk

There are only two things that money can't buy...true love and home grown tomatoes.

Youtube Video
489 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 9:20:00am

FAIL:

This guy thinks Lincoln was a Democrat?

490 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 9:22:04am

re: #488 darthstar

There are only two things that money can't buy...true love and home grown tomatoes.

[Embedded content]

Youtube Video
491 Someone Please Beam Me Up!  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 9:24:48am

re: #484 darthstar

Interesting read at Salon...

Did John Roberts switch his vote?

...but also read the comments, which cast doubt on the argument.

492 darthstar  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 9:29:15am

re: #491 Washed-Up-Clowns 'R' Us!

...but also read the comments, which cast doubt on the argument.

I don't know..."Lune E. Tunez" seems to be on to something...

Luun E. Toonz
Thursday, Jun 28, 2012 07:02 PM PDT

Roberts is a BRILLIANT stategerist!

And he knows EXACTLY what he was doing.

Ask: What got the conservative voters so excited in 2010 that they kicked the Dems OUT???

OBIECARE fight!

WHAT will get them excited this fall??

OBIECARE !!!!!!

Roberts just handed Romney the Presidency and the GOP the Senate.

Weep all you want!

BRILLIANT !!!!!!

493 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 9:31:47am

re: #492 darthstar

I don't know..."Lune E. Tunez" seems to be on to something...

Someone's ready for their close up from Mr. DeMille.

494 CriticalDragon1177  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 9:34:19am

Charles Johnson,

Well this might actually energize the Republican base whether we like it or not. Unless you can show me some statistics that prove me wrong, a lot of people out there don't like Obama Care as its called, and some people might vote for Romney hoping he will overturn it. I'm no fan of it either personally, although I'm still not voting for Romney.

495 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 9:35:11am

You hear the right wing say it's unpopular all the time yada yada yada but they're ignoring that some of that unpopularity comes from a left who wished it was more and others who mainly had a problem with the mandate which they thought was unconstitutional. There are other provisions within ACA that are very popular even with self described Republicans/conservatives. Now that doesn't mean Obama can sit on his ass and say I've been vindicated and knowing the president's actions, he won't do that. What needs to be done is the many positive attributes of the law need to be extolled. I think the Republicans were fortunate that they were able to exploit the fears and unknown qualities of ACA to take back the House in 2010. They won't have that this time because I think more people realize now that ACA wasn't the terrible thing it was made out to be.

496 AK-47%  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 9:36:32am

re: #495 HappyWarrior

ACA was known as Romneycare when it was instituted in Massachutsetts...that nuance is lost on the moth-breathers out there, but not on people who can think critically

497 lawhawk  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 9:36:44am

re: #484 darthstar

Campos' argument falls apart once you read the entire opinion, and realize that Ginsberg was a dissenting opinion. The headnote from Ginsburg clearly states the following:

JUSTICE GINSBURG, with whom JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR joins, and with whom JUSTICE BREYER and JUSTICE KAGAN join as to Parts I, II, III, and IV, concurring in part, concurring in the judgment in part, and dissenting in part.

Roberts joins with Ginsburg, Sotomayor, Breyer, and Kagan on finding a taxing power justification, but Roberts didn't agree with the Commerce Clause/Necessary and Proper justification.

Thus, it's logical to note that in the majority opinion when referring to the concurring opinion as a dissenting view - rather than pointing at the dissent by Alito, Thomas, and Scalia.

There's no there there.

498 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 9:37:36am

With Votes Left Uncounted, Charlie Rangel’s Fight May Not Be Over

This week's New York primary truly was the biggest fight of Representative Charlie Rangel's career — and it still isn't over. State Sentator Adriano Espaillat conceded defeat on Tuesday night following reports that the the 21-term congressman was ahead by double digits. However, as more results came in, Rangel's lead dwindled to a little over 1,000 votes out of the nearly 39,000 counted. Now Espaillat's supporters are calling for an investigation into the results, saying that when all is said and done, their candidate may still manage to unseat Rangel.

499 lawhawk  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 9:38:26am

re: #494 CriticalDragon1177

The GOP and Romney have claimed that they raised a couple million dollars yesterday as a result of the decision, and it certainly could have energized the base. Will it have long term benefit to GOP to seek its repeal? I don't think so as thoughts turn once again to the economy.

500 Mattand  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 9:39:32am

re: #496 Expand Your Ground

ACA was known as Romneycare when it was instituted in Massachutsetts...that nuance is lost on the moth-breathers out there, but not on people who can think critically

Problem is the mouth-breathers tend to outnumber the critical thinkers.

PS: I know it's just a typo, but I love the concept of "moth-breather". I picture a subset of people who toad lickers look down on.

501 Mattand  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 9:40:56am

re: #492 darthstar

I don't know..."Lune E. Tunez" seems to be on to something...

Yeah. A blossoming tumor in his frontal lobe.

502 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 9:41:06am

re: #500 Mattand

Problem is the mouth-breathers tend to outnumber the critical thinkers.

PS: I know it's just a typo, but I love the concept of "moth-breather". I picture a subset of people who toad lickers look down on.

You ever hear this Adlai Stevenson story. He's talking with a woman supporter.
"Why, Mr. Stevenson, you'll get the vote of every thinking man and woman."
"Why thank you ma'am but I need a majority."

503 darthstar  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 9:41:44am

Man's responsibilities track him down...funny paragraph.

504 darthstar  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 9:42:24am

re: #493 HappyWarrior

Someone's ready for their close up from Mr. DeMille.

I thought it was funnier still that people thought he/she was serious.

505 darthstar  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 9:43:58am

re: #501 Mattand

Yeah. A blossoming tumor in his frontal lobe.

A good friend of mine had a tumor(benign, thankfully) removed from his frontal lobe on Wednesday. He's awake now, but still in ICU...may actually get to come home by Sunday.

506 Kronocide  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 9:44:08am

See it's a tax after all, Obama said it wasn't a tax.

A wisp of silver lining held forth as a trophy. Pathetic.

Besides the caterwaul of this country being destroyed and Constitution shredded, this gleeful exhortation belies a detachment from the reality that the SCOTUS enforced a significant change to our healthcare system championed by this President. It's just too much to bear for them.

Listening to right wing talking heads you'd think that the key stories yesterday were Holder's contempt vote and Obama being caught in a lie.

The same issues that cause rejection of AGW are at play, daily, right in front of us.

507 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 9:44:17am

re: #500 Mattand

Problem is the mouth-breathers tend to outnumber the critical thinkers.

PS: I know it's just a typo, but I love the concept of "moth-breather". I picture a subset of people who toad lickers look down on.

There is no looking down on this guy...

Youtube Video
508 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 9:44:22am
509 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 9:46:04am

re: #506 Kronocide

See it's a tax after all, Obama said it wasn't a tax.

A wisp of silver lining held forth as a trophy. Pathetic.

The Supreme Court calls it a tax, the WH calls it a penalty. Which is it?

510 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 9:46:18am

re: #506 Kronocide

See it's a tax after all, Obama said it wasn't a tax.

A wisp of silver lining held forth as a trophy. Pathetic.

Besides the caterwaul of this country being destroyed and Constitution shredded, this gleeful exhortation belies a detachment from the reality that the SCOTUS enforced a significant change to our healthcare system championed by this President. It's just too much to bear for them.

Listening to right wing talking heads you'd think that the key stories yesterday were Holder's contempt vote and Obama being caught in a lie.

The same issues that cause rejection of AGW are at play, daily, right in front of us.

They're really running with that one. Good riddance to that. These fools wanted to make this legislation out to be the most destructive attack on our Constitution ever and all it is a tax increase.

511 wrenchwench  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 9:46:39am

re: #484 darthstar

Interesting read at Salon...

Did John Roberts switch his vote?

re: #491 Washed-Up-Clowns 'R' Us!

...but also read the comments, which cast doubt on the argument.

re: #497 lawhawk

Campos' argument falls apart once you read the entire opinion, and realize that Ginsberg was a dissenting opinion. The headnote from Ginsburg clearly states the following:

Roberts joins with Ginsburg, Sotomayor, Breyer, and Kagan on finding a taxing power justification, but Roberts didn't agree with the Commerce Clause/Necessary and Proper justification.

Thus, it's logical to note that in the majority opinion when referring to the concurring opinion as a dissenting view - rather than pointing at the dissent by Alito, Thomas, and Scalia.

There's no there there.

Another view, from one of Frum's readers.

[...]

I imagine the dissenters either had Roberts's vote or that Roberts left the post argument conference without commiting to a side and saying something to the effect of "let me see how it writes." He certainly didn't trust the dissenters, as he clearly instructed his law clerks to begin working on an alternative majority opinion (the final product was too polished and too long to have been written at the last minute). And he waited to see what was written.

What was written was not measured judicial analysis, but rather an opinion that started with a goal --- throw the bill out --- and then figured out how to get there, blowing by any precedent in its path.

[...]

512 Mattand  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 9:48:28am

re: #509 NJDhockeyfan

The Supreme Court calls it a tax, the WH calls it a penalty. Which is it?

What do they call it in Massachusetts?

513 Kronocide  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 9:49:19am

re: #509 NJDhockeyfan

The Supreme Court calls it a tax, the WH calls it a penalty. Which is it?

Why does it matter?

514 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 9:50:12am

re: #512 Mattand

What do they call it in Massachusetts?

A "fee" was what Romney said. I do wish the WH could have called it what is but people in this country are downright dumb when it comes to any tax increase. I hate to sound so harsh on my fellow Americans but we react like idiots whenever there's a tax increase for something. That's not to suggest every tax increase is a good thing but to point out that we have a long history of hearing the word tax and flipping our shit.

515 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 9:51:02am

re: #512 Mattand

What do they call it in Massachusetts?

Who cares? The SCOTUS defined it as a tax yesterday. Today Jay Carney said it was not a tax but a penalty. Who is right, the Supreme Court or the WH?

516 Kronocide  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 9:51:15am

re: #514 HappyWarrior

That's not to suggest every tax increase is a good thing but to point out that we have a long history of hearing the word tax and flipping our shit.

Ayep.

517 AK-47%  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 9:51:49am

re: #514 HappyWarrior

Annas to Judas:
"It isn't blood money, it's a fee, nothing more"

518 Mattand  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 9:52:58am

re: #514 HappyWarrior

I hate to sound so harsh on my fellow Americans but we react like idiots whenever there's a tax increase for something.

Don't. For a country supposedly founded by rugged individualists, we seem to have this "OMG! KILL IT WITH FIRE!!!" panic attack with stuff we don't like or understand.

519 makeitstop  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 9:53:29am

re: #515 NJDhockeyfan

Who cares? The SCOTUS defined it as a tax yesterday. Today Jay Carney said it was not a tax but a penalty. Who is right, the Supreme Court or the WH?

What does it matter? They're going to call it what they want anyway.

520 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 9:54:55am

re: #516 Kronocide

Ayep.

I'm reminded of how Mondale got trounced at the polls in large part because he admitted he would end up raising taxes but so would his opponent. He was telling the truth about his opponent but people will believe the guy who says he won't raise your taxes over the guy who is honest about the realities every time. It's how politics works.

521 Kronocide  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 9:55:21am

re: #515 NJDhockeyfan

Who cares? The SCOTUS defined it as a tax yesterday. Today Jay Carney said it was not a tax but a penalty. Who is right, the Supreme Court or the WH?

You tell me why it matters if its really a tax or not, and while you're at it explain why this point is so critical.

Otherwise it appears you merely want the satisfaction of saying Obama lied. Which doesn't mean much of shit now since the AMA is going through.

522 Mattand  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 9:55:22am

re: #515 NJDhockeyfan

Who cares? The SCOTUS defined it as a tax yesterday. Today Jay Carney said it was not a tax but a penalty. Who is right, the Supreme Court or the WH?

The point is we already have working legislation regarding mandated health care, including terminology. I'd like to know what the state who's been doing this for 16 years or so calls it.

523 Obdicut  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 9:55:53am

re: #520 HappyWarrior

This is more an American phenomenon; over in Europe, people get elected on the promise to raise taxes to pay for national needs quite often. Only in the US have the glbiertarians and the Randites really got so many people convinced that lower taxes are always better.

524 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 9:57:07am

re: #523 Obdicut

This is more an American phenomenon; over in Europe, people get elected on the promise to raise taxes to pay for national needs quite often. Only in the US have the glbiertarians and the Randites really got so many people convinced that lower taxes are always better.

Yeah, you're right. I think it goes back to the myth of American rugged individualism. It is what it is. I don't like it but I understand why rhetoric has to be used a certain way.

525 lawhawk  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 9:58:26am

re: #515 NJDhockeyfan

I'd say it's a tax, primarily for the reasons explained in the majority opinion, plus the fact that the IM provisions are found in the tax code at 26 USC 5000A.

It's a semantics thing to try and claim it is or isn't a tax.

A good guide on whether something is a tax or a fee or a penalty is that a tax's express purpose is to raise revenue, while a fee is supposed to cover the operating costs of a particular program. It gets fuzzy once legislatures begin using fees for the purpose of raising revenue (because calling something a tax is a surefire way to get it blocked).

Penalties are just what they sound like - if you do something that the law deems wrong, a penalty is imposed. Penalties can act as taxes, adding to the complexity of the whole thing.

For instance, let's take taxes on tobacco products. It's a tax because the purpose is to raise revenue. It could also be seen as a penalty to those who smoke because nonsmokers don't have to pay that tax.

526 AK-47%  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:01:07am

re: #518 Mattand

Don't. For a country supposedly founded by rugged individualists, we seem to have this "OMG! KILL IT WITH FIRE!!!" panic attack with stuff we don't like or understand.

I really Admire America for its emphasis on rugged individualism and personal responsibility and initiative.

But why does this come to mean that individuals should have to negotiate on an individual basis with multinational, multi-billion-dollar corporations for things like employment benefits and terms of health insurance coverage?

527 danarchy  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:02:25am

re: #496 Expand Your Ground

ACA was known as Romneycare when it was instituted in Massachutsetts...that nuance is lost on the moth-breathers out there, but not on people who can think critically

One big difference is that when the plan here in massachusetts cost a lot more then the initial estimates we were able to shift a large portion of the extra cost to the federal government (apologies to all you other states who had to chip in and not get the benefits.) If the CBO is substantially wrong on it's estimates, the extra cost has to be made up by more taxes or more borrowing.

528 Mattand  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:03:21am

And I know I'm repeating myself and others have stated this already, but the reason we're having this tax/penalty debate is because Obama went with the HCR option conservatives pushed for nearly 20 years.

The GOP said "No" to everything else, so Obama says "Let's go with your idea." It really is that simple. Conservatives got what they wanted, but since it was Obama doing it, they disowned their own plan.

This needs to be put on a loop from now until at least the end of the year. If there was any evidence the Republican Party's #1 priority was destroying Obama, rather than working for the good of the United States, it's right here.

529 Coracle  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:04:22am

re: #525 lawhawk

Penalties are just what they sound like - if you do something that the law deems wrong, a penalty is imposed. Penalties can act as taxes, adding to the complexity of the whole thing.

However, has it not been explicitly stated that the healthcare tax penalty is not for the purpose of raising revenue?

I also don't understand how it can be considered a tax when the vast majority of Americans who can pay for health insurance do so, because it's actually not stupid to have health insurance, and that the majority of people who won't be able to afford to do so wil get help. It's a tax only in people who insist on not insuring themselves.

530 darthstar  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:05:46am

Tax penalty. Or Penalty tax. You choose. Me, I'm just going to accept it at face value.

531 blueraven  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:05:58am

re: #509 NJDhockeyfan

The Supreme Court calls it a tax, the WH calls it a penalty. Which is it?

It is a penalty enforced by the taxing authority. Nothing has changed there. This was always the enforcement mechanism. It is only a tax for those who can afford, but choose not to purchase insurance.

532 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:06:18am

You know, I totally expect should ACA not get repealed and it becomes successful that eventually Republicans will start taking credit for it or claim that they "saved" the country from universal health care by forcing Obama to compromise even though very few if any of them supported the bill in its final version.

533 AK-47%  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:06:28am

re: #529 Coracle

It's a tax only in people who insist on not insuring themselves.

see it as a pre-payment for the free emergency care that they are entitled to if uninsured and unable to pay...

534 darthstar  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:06:54am

re: #528 Mattand

It all comes down to not wanting to work with the black guy. So sad, really.

535 Coracle  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:07:59am

re: #533 Expand Your Ground

see it as a pre-payment for the free emergency care that they are entitled to if uninsured and unable to pay...

That's exactly how I see it. Not buying insurance means you're gambling on your health using your own money - until it runs out. Then you're gambling with the public's money.

536 lawhawk  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:09:16am

re: #522 Mattand

Here's the enabling legislation. It created a new chapter to deal with the health care law - Ch. 111M (Individual Health Coverage). Sec. 2 requires that people are required to obtain coverage and penalties are also included within Ch. 111M.

It's separate and distinct from the tax provisions generally found in Ch. 62 - taxation of incomes.

That's a substantial difference from the PPACA, which folded the requirements into the Tax Code.

537 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:09:37am

re: #529 Coracle

However, has it not been explicitly stated that the healthcare tax penalty is not for the purpose of raising revenue?

I also don't understand how it can be considered a tax when the vast majority of Americans who can pay for health insurance do so, because it's actually not stupid to have health insurance, and that the majority of people who won't be able to afford to do so wil get help. It's a tax only in people who insist on not insuring themselves.

Taxes are generally looked at as something you pay when you purchase something and what you pay for income you've earned. Lots of people will see this as being taxed by the government because they didn't buy something, in this case being insurance. This will be very confusing.

538 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:09:38am

Drive-by Cutness break!

BEEBEES!!!!!

539 Mattand  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:10:10am

re: #534 darthstar

It all comes down to not wanting to work with the black guy. So sad, really.

I wouldn't say 100%, but yeah, you'd have to be delusional to think that isn't factoring in to an appreciable degree.

540 blueraven  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:10:49am

re: #537 NJDhockeyfan

Taxes are generally looked at as something you pay when you purchase something and what you pay for income you've earned. Lots of people will see this as being taxed by the government because they didn't buy something, in this case being insurance. This will be very confusing.

Then it should be called a penalty.

541 Interesting Times  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:11:14am
542 dragonath  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:12:25am

re: #337 steve_davis

The dissenting opinon has a moronic "the bill is 900 pages long" talking point. Thomas is their model judge.

543 iossarian  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:12:39am

re: #537 NJDhockeyfan

Taxes are generally looked at as something you pay when you purchase something and what you pay for income you've earned. Lots of people will see this as being taxed by the government because they didn't buy something, in this case being insurance. This will be very confusing.

Not really.

It already happens if you don't buy a house, and no-one finds that confusing at all.

544 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:12:49am

re: #541 Interesting Times

[Embedded content]

But it's the biggest tax increase ever. At least that's what the oxycontin addict on the radio told me.

545 Eventual Carrion  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:12:49am

re: #297 EdDantes

Health care is expensive and will be more so in the future regardless of insurance coverage. What once was a small town doctor who served his community is now a Titan medical establishment that feeds on insurance subscribers and government subsidies for sustenance. I don't see how further government interference is going to make things better or more affordable.
Medical care still costs are large regardless of who pays.

Medicine is a constantly evolving art. New and better diagnosis machines and technology are constantly being introduced. If you want to keep up with this tech you have to spend money. This means you have to pay also to take advantage of these innovations. You may feel that you shouldn't have that expense passed on to you, at least you would feel that way up to the point that your life was saved by that exact same technology. Also the personnel taking care of you are highly trained individuals, not high schoolers that couldn't get a job at Micky D's. I know when they cut into my chest that I want the best knife jockey they could get and the best nurses and staff that can be found.

546 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:13:10am

re: #540 blueraven

Then it should be called a penalty.

You are correct. Now that it's considered a tax it's going to raise a few eyebrows as to why they will pay a tax for not purchasing insurance.

547 iossarian  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:13:50am

re: #543 iossarian

Not really.

It already happens if you don't buy a house, and no-one finds that confusing at all.

The HCR "whatever you want to call it" is effectively a set amount of tax which you don't have to pay if you buy health insurance.

Close to being exactly like the mortgage rebate, in effect.

548 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:13:55am

re: #543 iossarian

Not really.

It already happens if you don't buy a house, and no-one finds that confusing at all.

I never paid a tax for a house I didn't purchase. Have you?

549 lawhawk  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:14:31am

re: #529 Coracle

It's my understanding that those who do not purchase insurance and instead pay the individual mandate charge (tax/fee/penalty) does help offset the costs of the remainder of the program. That's why it would have been fatal to the entirety of the program had the IM been found unconstitutional.

550 Someone Please Beam Me Up!  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:14:50am

re: #492 darthstar

LOL, guess I looked at the comment section before the real nuts got there. Okay, ... read the intelligent comments, which cast doubt on the argument.

551 Interesting Times  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:14:53am
552 iossarian  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:14:57am

re: #548 NJDhockeyfan

I never paid a tax for a house I didn't purchase. Have you?

You have, actually.

When you buy a house, you get a tax rebate based on the amount of money you spend on the mortgage interest.

The more interest (i.e., the more you spent on the house), the bigger the rebate.

553 Coracle  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:14:58am

re: #537 NJDhockeyfan

Taxes are generally looked at as something you pay when you purchase something and what you pay for income you've earned. Lots of people will see this as being taxed by the government because they didn't buy something, in this case being insurance. This will be very confusing.

Nope. There are many state in which you're not allowed to drive unless you have auto insurance. That kind of penalty (in this case it's financial instead of automotive) is not hard to understand. It's the very definition of taking personal responsibility.

Most people wealthy enough to buy insurance who chose not to (which will be a small fraction of the population to begin with) will not be confused by this.

554 danarchy  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:15:12am

re: #543 iossarian

Not really.

It already happens if you don't buy a house, and no-one finds that confusing at all.

Not really, you get a deduction if you buy a house, but are not taxed extra for not buying. If they wanted to give people a deduction for buying insurance I doubt anyone would complain. Unfortunately, that would decrease revenue, and they need to increase it.

555 darthstar  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:15:17am

When is Tom Cruise going to just admit he's gay?

556 Kronocide  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:15:18am

I'll take the non-answer as an answer: You Lie!

557 CriticalDragon1177  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:16:14am

re: #499 lawhawk

The GOP and Romney have claimed that they raised a couple million dollars yesterday as a result of the decision, and it certainly could have energized the base. Will it have long term benefit to GOP to seek its repeal? I don't think so as thoughts turn once again to the economy.

lawhawk

Who knows really, but whatever either side does, it make a more significant difference than you would think if this turns out to be a close election.

558 iossarian  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:16:26am

re: #554 danarchy

Not really, you get a deduction if you buy a house, but are not taxed extra for not buying. If they wanted to give people a deduction for buying insurance I doubt anyone would complain. Unfortunately, that would decrease revenue, and they need to increase it.

I am not going to argue the semantic difference between a "reduction you don't get" and an "increase you can avoid". They amount to the same thing for all practical purposes.

559 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:17:09am

re: #552 iossarian

You have, actually.

When you buy a house, you get a tax rebate based on the amount of money you spend on the mortgage interest.

The more interest (i.e., the more you spent on the house), the bigger the rebate.

Yes but I still paid a bunch of taxes after the rebate for my house. If I were renting a house I would have paid zero taxes on it.

560 blueraven  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:17:32am

re: #554 danarchy

Not really, you get a deduction if you buy a house, but are not taxed extra for not buying. If they wanted to give people a deduction for buying insurance I doubt anyone would complain. Unfortunately, that would decrease revenue, and they need to increase it.

There is, in fact a deduction for purchasing insurance, if it is part of your job benefits. These insurance contributions are not taxed.

561 Interesting Times  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:17:34am
562 darthstar  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:18:09am
563 lawhawk  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:19:52am

re: #559 NJDhockeyfan

And you don't think that the taxes that the owner of said rental aren't passing on those costs to you? Here's a hint - they are.

States recognize this too, including NJ, when they give renter rebates for property taxes paid (now applied only to elderly/disabled).

564 iossarian  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:20:22am

re: #559 NJDhockeyfan

Yes but I still paid a bunch of taxes after the rebate for my house. If I were renting a house I would have paid zero taxes on it.

If you were renting and your landlord is actually looking to make money (which most landlords tend to do) the cost of the taxes is factored into your rent. You might not be paying them directly to the local authority that levies them but you're paying them nonetheless.

But in any case that's beside the point, which is that taking out a mortgage (buying a house) entitles you to a tax rebate. If you don't buy a house you have to pay that tax.

565 darthstar  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:20:45am

re: #559 NJDhockeyfan

Yes but I still paid a bunch of taxes after the rebate for my house. If I were renting a house I would have paid zero taxes on it.

You can't build equity in a rental.

566 Coracle  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:21:30am

re: #549 lawhawk

It's my understanding that those who do not purchase insurance and instead pay the individual mandate charge (tax/fee/penalty) does help offset the costs of the remainder of the program. That's why it would have been fatal to the entirety of the program had the IM been found unconstitutional.

Then we're back to different semantics. If I consider that >thing< to be "revenue" I would assume it wouldn't be necessarily dedicated to healthcare related costs, and could end up as someone's overpass or fighter jet. If it's to offset that specific cost, is that revenue - or compensation from someone who's opted out of the program. Frankly, I don't really care. Any hay made out of it being a "Tax on the American people" is crap, especially from erstwhile worshippers of personal responsibility.

567 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:22:41am

re: #565 darthstar

You can't build equity in a rental.

With the value of my house consistently going down, I can't build equity by owning it either!

568 darthstar  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:23:41am

re: #567 NJDhockeyfan

With the value of my house consistently going down, I can't build equity by owning it either!

Build a meth lab. Get rich.

569 iossarian  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:25:05am

re: #568 darthstar

Build a meth lab. Get rich.

Synthetic marijuana FTW.

That's where the big money starts nowadays.

570 lawhawk  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:25:24am

re: #566 Coracle

Depending on the legislation, revenue raised from a tax can be directed to a specific outcome - funding education, transportation, etc.

For instance, in NJ, the gas tax funds the Transportation Trust Fund and pays for road, highway, and mass transit expenditures.

Other taxes are funneled into the general fund to cover general obligations that the legislature decides annually.

The gas tax is still a tax even though the money received by the government is dedicated to a specific outcome.

571 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:25:27am

re: #568 darthstar

Build a meth lab. Get rich.

Nah, I'll stick with gardening. It's much less stressful. All I have to worry about are deer and rabbits.

572 AK-47%  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:26:08am

re: #571 NJDhockeyfan

Nah, I'll stick with gardening. It's much less stressful. All I have to worry about are deer and rabbits.

and DEA helicopters...

573 lawhawk  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:26:33am

re: #572 Expand Your Ground

And black drones.

574 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:27:08am

re: #572 Expand Your Ground

and DEA helicopters...

I start seeing them flying around in August. They really are black!

575 iossarian  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:28:50am

re: #570 lawhawk

Depending on the legislation, revenue raised from a tax can be directed to a specific outcome - funding education, transportation, etc.

For instance, in NJ, the gas tax funds the Transportation Trust Fund and pays for road, highway, and mass transit expenditures.

Other taxes are funneled into the general fund to cover general obligations that the legislature decides annually.

The gas tax is still a tax even though the money received by the government is dedicated to a specific outcome.

RANT ALERT

It's a real problem with democracy that people don't understand the fungible nature of tax revenues. You get people justifying playing the lottery*, for example, on the basis that their money is going to support education. What they don't realize is that every dollar they put into education via the lottery results in a dollar being extracted from education via the general fund and spent on cutting some corporation's tax rate in the never-ending race to suck as much public money into private hands as possible.

RANT OVER

* The arguments for and against a state-run lottery are more complex than this, I fully admit. It's just an example.

576 Coracle  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:31:15am

re: #570 lawhawk

All right then. I had a limited definition of "revenue". If the ACA tax revenue goes to fill ACA/healthcare shortfalls, I have zero problem with its existence or its being termed a tax. But please, let's not let stand unchallenged anyone who says it's a

Tax On The American People

much less the largest tax in the history of tax. It's a small tax on people who insist on taking healthcare cost gambles on their own pocketbook but insist the rest of us back them up if they lose big.

577 AK-47%  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:32:40am

re: #576 Coracle

It's a small tax on people who insist on taking healthcare cost gambles on their own pocketbook but insist the rest of us back them up if they lose big.

You mean like banks?

578 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:33:43am

re: #576 Coracle

It's a small tax on people who insist on taking healthcare cost gambles on their own pocketbook but insist the rest of us back them up if they lose big.

Just curious, how much does someone have to pay for not purchasing insurance?

579 abolitionist  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:36:03am

re: #578 NJDhockeyfan

Just curious, how much does someone have to pay for not purchasing insurance?

According to a video I heard this AM, $95/yr. At least initially. Don't know if that's per person or per family. [edit] Maybe not a video, but a news story.

580 lawhawk  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:36:55am

re: #536 lawhawk

And for what it's worth, Romney considered his Mass Care plan to be a tax penalty, even though it didn't fall into the Tax Code of Mass. How's that for complicating things even further...

581 danarchy  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:36:57am

re: #578 NJDhockeyfan

Minimum is $695 for an individual, could be more depending on income or could be waved if your income is low enough, in which case you are probably eligible for medicaid anyway.

582 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:37:50am

re: #574 NJDhockeyfan

I start seeing them flying around in August. They really are black!

If you lived near a sensitive nuclear facility you would see a lot them, privately-operated.

[Link: www.sciway.net...]

583 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:38:52am

re: #582 Decatur Deb

If you lived near a sensitive nuclear facility you would see a lot them, privately-operated.

[Link: www.sciway.net...]

Nothing like that here. Just a bunch of trees.

584 iossarian  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:39:55am

re: #581 danarchy

Minimum is $695 for an individual, could be more depending on income or could be waved if your income is low enough, in which case you are probably eligible for medicaid anyway.

The wikipedia page has this:

Low income persons and families above the Medicaid level and up to 400% of the federal poverty level will receive federal subsidies[28] on a sliding scale if they choose to purchase insurance via an exchange (persons at 150% of the poverty level would be subsidized such that their premium cost would be of 2% of income or $50 a month for a family of 4).[29]

Which would seem to set a bound on the amount of money a low-income family would pay either way (since if the tax/penalty is greater you would just pay the premium and get insurance).

585 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:41:46am

re: #583 NJDhockeyfan

Nothing like that here. Just a bunch of trees.

That's what They want you to think...

586 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:43:28am

re: #585 Decatur Deb

That's what They want you to think...

If they are out there hiding they better have lots of protection. The hunting season gets pretty busy.

587 The Ghost of a Flea  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:44:27am

re: #586 NJDhockeyfan

If they are out there hiding they better have lots of protection. The hunting season gets pretty busy.

What's the bag limit on black helicopters?

588 lawhawk  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:45:16am

re: #578 NJDhockeyfan

Here's the full breakout (individuals):
For 2014: Lesser of $95, or up to 1% of income;
For 2015: Lesser of $325 or 2% of income;
For 2016, Lesser of $695, or 2.5% of income. Thereafter, the dollar minimum is adjusted for inflation.

For families, the dollar minimums are higher. There are also exceptions/waivers available.

589 Coracle  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:45:19am

re: #577 Expand Your Ground

You mean like banks?

Except the banks have no actual penalty for doing that. Perhaps it's instructional to look at their behavior.

590 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:46:38am

re: #587 The Ghost of a Flea

What's the bag limit on black helicopters?

With .50 at almost $5 a round, no one can afford to take the limit.

Youtube Video
591 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:47:20am

What is Russia thinking on Syria? A brief guide

As the crisis in Syria collapses into what looks like full-blown civil war, foreign ministers of key United Nations Security Council and Arab League powers will meet in Geneva tomorrow for a last-ditch effort to find a political solution. The main obstacle to common agreement on the new plan by UN envoy Kofi Annan is likely to be the ongoing dispute between Russia (and China) and the West over the need to remove strongman Bashar al-Assad from the picture.

Moscow has vetoed two resolutions that would have provided a means of easing Mr. Assad out, and seems set to dig in its heels against any language in the new plan that calls for Assad's removal. Russia's position is a complicated mix of principle, self-interest, mistrust of Western motives, and sincerely differing perceptions of the situation. A brief guide to the Russian mind:

592 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:49:40am

re: #588 lawhawk

Here's the full breakout (individuals):
For 2014: Greater of $95, or up to 1% of income;
For 2015: Greater of $325 or 2% of income;
For 2016, Greater of $695, or 2.5% of income. Thereafter, the dollar minimum is adjusted for inflation.

For families, the dollar minimums are higher. There are also exceptions/waivers available.

Thanks. I suspect small businesses who don't purchase insurance for their employees will pay rather hefty fines/taxes/penalties.

593 lawhawk  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:50:59am

re: #592 NJDhockeyfan

FWIW- I got it wrong - it's the lesser of the fixed dollar and percentage, not greater. The dollar amounts are capped.

I was right the first time - it's the greater of the amounts:

The annual penalty for not having minimum essential coverage will be the greater of a flat dollar amount per individual or a percentage of the individual’s taxable income. For any dependent
under the age 18, the penalty is one half of the individual amount.
 The flat dollar amount per individual is $95 in 2014; $325 in 2015 and $695 in 2016.
After 2016, the flat dollar amount is indexed to inflation. The flat dollar penalty is
capped at 300% of the flat dollar amount. For example:
o A family of three (two parents and one child under 18) would have a flat dollar penalty of $1737 in 2016;
o A family of four (two parents and two children over 18) would have a flat dollar penalty of $2,085 in 2016 because the 300 % cap would apply.
 The percentage of taxable income is an amount equal to a percentage of a household’s income (as defined by the Act) that is in excess of the tax filing threshold (phased in at 1% in 2014; 2% in 2015; 2.5% in 2016).
For example:
o If an individual has a household income of $50,000, the percentage would be 1% of the difference between $50,000 and the tax threshold (which is $9,350 for an individual in 2010). Assuming the tax threshold is $10,000 in 2014, this individual would be subject to a percentage penalty of $400. Because this percentage penalty is greater than the flat dollar penalty for 2014 (which is $95), he would pay the percentage penalty

594 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:53:04am

re: #591 Killgore Trout

What is Russia thinking on Syria? A brief guide

It boils down to this...making money off of Assad is more important than saving Syrian civilians from genocide.

595 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:53:47am

re: #591 Killgore Trout

Related: Clinton Endorses Russian Civic Activists Before Syria Talks

U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton met Russian civic activists in St. Petersburg, where she will discuss Syria with Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov before a conference on the Middle Eastern nation tomorrow.

596 Obdicut  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:54:02am

re: #592 NJDhockeyfan

Thanks. I suspect small businesses who don't purchase insurance for their employees will pay rather hefty fines/taxes/penalties.

They have to have over fifty employees to be affected, so the vast majority of small businesses will be totally unaffected.

Does that reassure you?

597 AK-47%  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:55:02am

We have an "Obamatax" rule for Monopoly: the income tax is only 5% or $100 - until you get your first monopoly, then you have to pay the full tax.

At one point, my eight-year-old daughter wanted to turn down a chance to get a monopoly because she did not want to have to pay the full tax.

i realized that she was usapplying ing the same logic the GOP applies to arguments about tax rates...

598 dragonath  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:55:13am

There's a funny NRSC ad at the head of this page.

"Only 4 seats to fully repeal Obamacare!"

It must be starting to dawn on the faithful that they'll never get past the filibuster.

599 AK-47%  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:55:31am

re: #596 Obdicut

They have to have over fifty employees to be affected, so the vast majority of small businesses will be totally unaffected.

Does that reassure you?

This is still being sold as a "job killer"

600 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:55:32am

re: #594 NJDhockeyfan

It boils down to this...making money off of Assad is more important than saving Syrian civilians from genocide.

Sort of but that's just the first page (note there's an arrow at the bottom). It's a pretty long article. I'm surprised how many different reason they have to support Assad. Religious, financial, domestic, etc.

601 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:57:48am

re: #598 Be Zorch, Daddio

There's a funny NRSC ad at the head of this page.

It must be starting to dawn on the faithful that they'll never get past the filibuster.

Oh if there's a filibuster Mitch McConnell will act like there's never once been a filibuster by his party and that the Democrats are being obstructionists. But hey if they want to continue to push ACA's repeal, I think they're fighting a losing battle.

602 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:58:12am

House passes highway jobs bill, halts student loan rate hike

A deal clearing the way for passage of the bill was reached after Republicans gave up their demands that the bill require approval of the contentious Keystone XL pipeline and Democrats gave way on environment protections.

Nice!

603 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:58:54am

re: #600 Killgore Trout

Sort of but that's just the first page (note there's an arrow at the bottom). It's a pretty long article. I'm surprised how many different reason they have to support Assad. Religious, financial, domestic, etc.

The Russians have an excuse for everything. I want them to explain why they aren't willing to do the right thing and help stop this shit:

Corpses line street as Syrian toll spirals

BEIRUT (Reuters) - Syrians in the besieged city of Douma wrapped mangled and bloodied corpses in white burial shrouds early on Friday, according to video posted online, after 190 people were killed in one of the deadliest days of Syria's 16-month-old uprising.

Activists said more than 50 of those killed on Thursday died in Douma, about 15 km (9 miles) outside the capital Damascus.

Video published on YouTube showed rows of shrouded bodies lining what activists said was a street in Douma. The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said 41 people had died in the city, while other activists placed the toll at 59 or higher.

"Douma, the morning of June 29, 2012. This is the massacre committed against the people of Douma. God is our savior. Two whole families are here (among the dead) ... God help us," said the man filming the scene.

One man held up the limp body of a girl, her pink blouse drenched in blood.

"This is another massacre of the massacres by Assad and his secret police," he said. "This is another massacre of the massacres by the international community, of all the great nations that have conspired against our people."

Douma has been under siege for weeks by security forces loyal to President Bashar al-Assad.

604 Obdicut  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:59:12am

re: #602 Killgore Trout

Ugh. Blackmailed into fucking over the environment more. At least they only got a small bit of asshole dickery in on this one.

605 AK-47%  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 10:59:50am

re: #601 HappyWarrior

Oh if there's a filibuster Mitch McConnell will act like there's never once been a filibuster by his party and that the Democrats are being obstructionists. But hey if they want to continue to push ACA's repeal, I think they're fighting a losing battle.

They see it as a winning thing, demonstrating their ideological purity, even if it produces no results save to distract them from doing anything else vaguely useful or necessary.

606 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 11:00:33am

re: #602 Killgore Trout

House passes highway jobs bill, halts student loan rate hike

Nice!

Now that's how a little bipartisanship can work. If they keep at it their approval rating might rise to double digits.

607 lawhawk  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 11:01:24am

re: #604 Obdicut

Not exactly. The environmental rules were modified to allow certain studies to be done concurrently, streamlining the process and reducing red tape.

608 Obdicut  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 11:02:58am

re: #607 lawhawk

If that means reviews concurrent with each other, that's smart and nifty. If it means reviews concurrent with the project, that's a terrible idea.

609 lawhawk  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 11:03:17am

Obama campaign says it outraised Romney after PPACA decision:

610 Mocking Jay  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 11:03:20am

Ezra Klein has an interesting point to add.

And to go even a bit further, if Mitt Romney wins the election and Republicans take control of the Senate, they should repeal the Affordable Care Act. At that point, they will have won two straight elections atop a platform in which repealing the ACA was a central, explicit promise. The American people will have spoken with unusual clarity, and part of what they will have said, whether they meant to say it or not, is repeal the ACA. If Republicans failed to follow through, they would be breaking a central campaign promise.

Basically, if the Republicans win this election we deserve the shitty healthcare system we now have.

611 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 11:05:52am

Military judge bars Fort Hood shooting suspect from court again; trial will not be delayed

FORT HOOD, Texas — A military judge in Central Texas again says the suspect in the Fort Hood shooting spree is banned from court until he shaves his beard.

Col. Gregory Gross said Friday that top Army officials have rejected Maj. Nidal Hasan’s request for a religious exemption due to his Islamic faith. An appeals court also denied a defense request to overturn the judge’s decision last week to bar Hasan from future hearings unless he shaves.

Hasan’s beard violates Army regulations. He watched Friday’s hearing from a closed-circuit TV in a nearby room.

The Army psychiatrist charged in the 2009 attack that claimed 13 lives faces the death penalty if convicted.

612 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 11:06:14am

re: #609 lawhawk

Obama campaign says it outraised Romney after PPACA decision:

[Embedded content]

I think that's something that the right wants us all to ignore that the affirmation of ACA was going to galvanize Obama's supporters as well.

613 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 11:10:13am

More news coming out of Syria...

...A senior rebel officer said around 170 Syrian tanks had assembled at an infantry school near the village of Musalmieh northeast of the city of Aleppo, just 19 miles from the Turkish border but were keeping well clear of new Turkish air defenses installed to curb Syrian action near its frontiers.

"They're either preparing to move to the border to counter the Turkish deployment or attack the rebellious (Syrian) towns and villages in and around the border zone north of Aleppo," General Mustafa al-Sheikh, head of the Higher Military Council, a grouping of senior officers who defected from Assad's forces, told Reuters by telephone from the border.

614 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 11:11:13am

OT but man the Giants have some unique giveaway promotions. Apparently they're having a Sinatra appreciation night on August 13th where they're giving out Sinatra bobbleheads. Looking forward to seeing a game at AT&T in July when I go out to SF.

615 dragonath  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 11:14:49am

Sinatra!? You'd think San Francisco would be Tony Bennett territory!

616 Obdicut  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 11:16:46am

re: #614 HappyWarrior

[Link: www.espnstar.com...]

Lincecum may have found his ball again.

And ESPN spelled his name wrong.

617 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 11:17:39am

re: #616 Obdicut

[Link: www.espnstar.com...]

Lincecum may have found his ball again.

And ESPN spelled his name wrong.

I really hope it's either him or Cain that pitches the game I'm going to see. Got to see a well pitched game when I was in Baltimore Sunday. Love to see good pitching.

618 Kragar  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 11:21:03am

Fischer: Roberts' Health Care Ruling 'Makes you Wonder if Something has Gone Wrong with his Brain'

Ladies and gentlemen, today the Grim Reaper has visited the United States. Unless this Supreme Court decision from today is repealed, unless it is overturned, unless it is repealed, America no longer exists as a constitutional republic and Chief Justice John Roberts will do down in history as the man who shredded the Constitution beyond recognition. His ruling today is unconscionable, it's inexcusable for somebody who has taken an oath to uphold the Constitution of the United States to issue a ruling like John Roberts issued today.

This is bad behavior. All five of the judges that participated in this ruling could be impeached, tried, convicted, and removed from office. This is a gross dereliction of duty on their part.

I mean, John Roberts, ladies and gentlemen, this is embarrassing. John Roberts today participated and wrote legal gobbledygook, it is legal gibberish, it is irrational, it makes absolutely no sense. Not only is it unconstitutional, it's not even rational what he wrote in his opinion that is going to take away the freedom of million and million and million of Americans. It actually makes you wonder if something has gone wrong with his brain. He's not thinking clearly, he's not writing clearly.

The main ruling is just garbage, I mean it is legal garbage, ladies and gentlemen. That's the most polite term I can use to describe what John Roberts has written. It is legal garbage. It belongs in a landfill somewhere where it can be left to rot and decompose and decay in peace. That's how bad it is.

619 dragonfire1981  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 11:21:18am

Because...Fuck laws we don't agree with!

Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal refusing to implement Obamacare despite SCOTUS decision

The Supreme Court upheld President Barack Obama's health care law on Thursday, but Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal, a possible Republican vice presidential contender who has refused to establish a federally mandated health care exchange in his state, said Friday that he will continue to ignore it.

"We're not going to start implementing Obamacare," Jindal said during a conference call with Virginia Gov. Bob McDonnell. "We're committed to working to elect Gov. Romney to repeal Obamacare."

Under the Affordable Care Act, states must set up a health insurance exchange program by Jan. 1, 2014, and will receive grants from the federal government to implement it. Several Republican governors, including both Jindal and McDonnell, have put off setting up the exchanges in the hope that the law would be repealed or struck down by the court. Now that the law has been upheld, Jindal said he won't change course and is looking to presumptive Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney to lead the repeal effort if he takes office in 2013.

Either he really, REALLY wants to be VP or he really hates Obama. I'd have to say the latter and I suspect other Red states to follow suit with similar announcements.

This fight is not over yet folks.

620 lawhawk  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 11:21:33am

re: #616 Obdicut

I hope so for my fantasy baseball team's sake - as practically everyone else on my roster is injured. He's been absolutely awful thus far.

Cain has been off the hook though (and he's my most productive healthy pitcher).

621 darthstar  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 11:22:32am

Image: 541001_10150906193516275_1604549105_n.jpg

622 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 11:22:50am

re: #618 Kragar

Fischer: Roberts' Health Care Ruling 'Makes you Wonder if Something has Gone Wrong with his Brain'

I keep hearing that Fischer screed in the voice of Foghorn Leghorn.

623 Kragar  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 11:23:03am

re: #619 dragonfire1981

Because...Fuck laws we don't agree with!

Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal refusing to implement Obamacare despite SCOTUS decision

Either he really, REALLY wants to be VP or he really hates Obama. I'd have to say the latter and I suspect other Red states to follow suit with similar announcements.

This fight is not over yet folks.

Then he loses money, plus the Feds get to come in and set up the system.

Nice work Jindal.

624 dragonath  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 11:23:21am

How about dem Pirates?

No seriously, they're only a game out of first!

625 darthstar  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 11:23:37am

re: #619 dragonfire1981

Because...Fuck laws we don't agree with!

Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal refusing to implement Obamacare despite SCOTUS decision

Either he really, REALLY wants to be VP or he really hates Obama. I'd have to say the latter and I suspect other Red states to follow suit with similar announcements.

This fight is not over yet folks.

Let's hope he turns Louisiana blue in the process.

626 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 11:23:42am

Word is the republicans plan to use reconciliation if necessary to repeal the ACA if they win in Nov. Hypocrisy, thy name is Eric Cantor.

627 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 11:24:59am

What a damn shame.

Half of GERMAN schoolchildren do not know Third Reich was a dictatorship - or that East Germany was Communist

Half of German schoolchildren do not know that the Third Reich was a dictatorship, a survey has found.

More than 50 per cent of the teenagers polled were also unaware that the East German state was also a tyrannical regime run by communists.

Despite being obliged to visit a concentration camp at least once in their schooldays and learning about Hitler's seizure of power, German students showed a lack of knowledge about their roots.

The widespread ignorance is detailed in a study called, 'Late Victory of the Dictatorships?' after a recent survey conducted by researchers at the Free University in Berlin.

'This is shocking,' said study author Klaus Schroeder.

628 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 11:25:22am

re: #618 Kragar

Fischer: Roberts' Health Care Ruling 'Makes you Wonder if Something has Gone Wrong with his Brain'

That, ladies and gentlemen, is what a controlled brain explosion looks like. Sure the head is still in tact and the skull still thicker than a fence post but the winger brain inside is merely a puddle of goo leaving the victim to foam at the mouth and make as much sense as Sarah Palin.

629 darthstar  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 11:25:34am

re: #624 Be Zorch, Daddio

How about dem Pirates?

No seriously, they're only a game out of first!

Or the Giants...a game UP in first...and four shut-outs in a row (three against the Dodgers and last night against the Reds...and Mr. Perfect - Matt Cain - is on the mound tonight...let's make it five in a row)

630 Mocking Jay  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 11:25:54am

re: #626 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

Word is the republicans plan to use reconciliation if necessary to repeal the ACA if they win in Nov. Hypocrisy, thy name is Eric Cantor.

As I understand it, all they can repeal that way are the subsidies and medicaid expansion. So they would just make it more likely that even more people would have to pay the tax.

631 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 11:26:47am

I wonder how Roberts feels seeing all these people he thought he was close to in general philosophy on turning on him. If I were him, I'd be pissed, and if I wanted to be a spiteful asshole I'd totally 180 my judicial philosophy to piss them off even more but the USSC isn't the place to act like a spiteful asshole and I know Justice Roberts knows that.

632 Kragar  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 11:28:11am

O’Malley: GOP Likes Mandates When They’re ‘Transvaginal Probes For Women’

Maryland Gov. Martin O’Malley (D) accused Republicans of hypocrisy for pairing protests against a health care mandate with demands for increasingly invasive restrictions on women’s health.

“The only health care mandate they can embrace are transvaginal probes for women,” O’Malley said Friday during a press call.

633 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 11:28:25am

Bob McDonnell again showed why he's not the moderate he portrayed himself to be to get elected. What a shame that the guy can't be called out on his lies because Virginia has one term limits for governors.

634 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 11:29:16am

re: #632 Kragar

O’Malley: GOP Likes Mandates When They’re ‘Transvaginal Probes For Women’

I knew I liked O'Malley and he shows why there.

635 Kragar  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 11:30:52am

re: #631 HappyWarrior

I wonder how Roberts feels seeing all these people he thought he was close to in general philosophy on turning on him. If I were him, I'd be pissed, and if I wanted to be a spiteful asshole I'd totally 180 my judicial philosophy to piss them off even more but the USSC isn't the place to act like a spiteful asshole and I know Justice Roberts knows that.


The Best Right-Wing Reactions To John Roberts’ Swing Vote

On his radio show Thursday, conservative talk radio firebrand Michael Savage wondered whether Roberts’ epilepsy medication affected the chief justice’s cognition. “I’m going to tell you something that you’re not going to hear anywhere else, that you must pay attention to,” Savage said. “It’s well known that Roberts, unfortunately for him, has suffered from epileptic seizures. Therefore he has been on medication. Therefore neurologists will tell you that medication used for seizure disorders, such as epilepsy, can introduce mental slowing, forgetfulness and other cognitive problems. And if you look at Roberts’ writings you can see the cognitive dissociation in what he is saying,”

636 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 11:31:26am

re: #635 Kragar


The Best Right-Wing Reactions To John Roberts’ Swing Vote

I figured Savage would have the nastiest one. I've had it out for that son of a bitch ever since he went after autistic kids.

637 Mocking Jay  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 11:34:33am

re: #632 Kragar

Heh. Jindal said "Obamneycare."

snort

638 Kragar  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 11:36:58am

Five Health Care Mandates Republicans Support

- Forcing women to get transvaginal ultrasounds
- Ordering women to cremate and bury their miscarried fetus
- Requiring doctors to lie to female patients
- Making a dying woman consult two doctors before she can get a life-saving abortion
- Mandating people pay extra to give medical device companies a tax break

639 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 11:37:57am

re: #638 Kragar

Five Health Care Mandates Republicans Support

In otherwords, hypocrites *clap clap*.

640 AK-47%  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 11:38:09am

re: #627 NJDhockeyfan

These kids have grown up in a war-free, economically unified Europe with no internal border controls. They have learned to live in the present, which, in one way, is a good thing for young people.

But the vaunted German education system, a world-class institution at the start of the last century, is rapidly going downhill.

641 Obdicut  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 11:39:18am

re: #638 Kragar

And from the woman's point of view:

Image: 544914_329620713766601_1202441794_n.jpg

642 Digital Display  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 11:45:00am

Hiya Lizards! Always nice to see ya..
The last couple of days have been amazing to observe.
A couple of years ago we were knee deep in Health care law..The emotions and opinions ran white hot and it pretty much birthed the Tea Party.
Well.. Welcome back in time..It's back to the future.
I love the shock of those that pigeonholed John Roberts..
To top it off by days end we get 100 dems walking out over the vote on Holder.. High Drama in the most powerful square mile in the World..
These things are just starting to expand with the election coming..

643 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 11:46:31am

re: #641 Obdicut

And from the woman's point of view:

Image: 544914_329620713766601_1202441794_n.jpg

That's something I hope the campaign really runs with when the Romney one talks about how this law has made costs higher.

644 Someone Please Beam Me Up!  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 11:47:24am

re: #635 Kragar

I looked up the side effects of epilepsy medication (hampered by the fact that there are a lot of them), and didn't find anything about "cognitive dissociation." Which doesn't seem to be a medical term anyway.

That Michael Savage is not a reliable witness I already knew.

645 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 11:49:28am

Roberts hasn't had any real problems since 2007 anyhow. Really it's a low blow and an insult to him to imply that somehow his condition is what made him decide how he did. The other funny reactions are the GOP reps like Kingston and Gingrey as seen on Colbert last night acting like Roberts refused to go to the prom with them.

646 darthstar  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 11:50:09am

A friend's fb status:
Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes are getting divorced. She's getting the house but he's keeping the closet

647 Kragar  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 11:51:05am

re: #641 Obdicut

And from the woman's point of view:

Image: 544914_329620713766601_1202441794_n.jpg

Here is a mandate for the GOP:

- Husbands to be required to get spousal consent before receiving viagra prescriptions.

lulz ensue

648 darthstar  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 11:52:51am

re: #647 Kragar

Here is a mandate for the GOP:

- Husbands to be required to get spousal consent before receiving viagra prescriptions.

lulz ensue

Or they must demonstrate their inability to achieve an erection before a panel of evaluators.

649 AK-47%  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 11:53:49am

re: #648 darthstar

Or they must demonstrate their inability to achieve an erection before a panel of evaluators.

and submit to a urethral ultrasound probe

650 Kragar  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 11:58:20am

Well, this was unexpected:
National Review Deputy Managing Editor: Issa Should Be Ashamed Of Fast & Furious Conspiracy Theory

Issa has been called out for this allegation in an unlikely quarter: the conservative National Review. In an editorial Wednesday, the magazine’s deputy managing editor Robert VerBruggen took the California Republican to task:

Fast and Furious is a horrific scandal. The public deserves answers as to who devised the operation and what they hoped to accomplish. But the theory that Fast and Furious was devised to promote gun control goes far beyond the evidence, as Issa basically admitted to ABC this weekend, and it does not withstand scrutiny. The chairman should be ashamed to have dabbled in it, and should fully retract his initial comment, unless he has a considerable amount of evidence he has not shared with the public.

651 iossarian  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 12:01:44pm

re: #650 Kragar

Well, this was unexpected:
National Review Deputy Managing Editor: Issa Should Be Ashamed Of Fast & Furious Conspiracy Theory

Translation: we had a perfectly good political witch-hunt going and now the ringleader's going to screw it up by endorsing an even more transparently false conspiracy theory.

652 Someone Please Beam Me Up!  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 12:01:59pm

re: #648 darthstar

Or they must demonstrate their inability to achieve an erection before a panel of evaluators.

Much too easy a test, I should think. Unless the evaluaters are all young, dishy and naked.

653 Kragar  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 12:06:15pm

David Barton: 'There is not a Single Grocery Store in the City Limits of Detroit'

713,777 people live in Detroit, zero grocery stores? Right.

654 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 12:10:19pm

re: #653 Kragar

David Barton: 'There is not a Single Grocery Store in the City Limits of Detroit'

713,777 people live in Detroit, zero grocery stores? Right.

Does Huckabee still want us listening to him at gun point? Or did that crazy threat expire?

655 lawhawk  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 12:12:01pm

re: #653 Kragar

[Link: www.urbanophile.com...]

National chain supermarkets might be skipping Detroit, but there are plenty of local and/or regional chains.

The other alternative is that Detroit is home to the origination of the zombie hordes.

656 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 12:14:05pm

Grocery stores really aren't that good for cities really anyhow. Smaller convenience stores are a better fit for cities. You see more grocery stores in the suburbs because more people use cars in the suburbs and you can get more that way.


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