Justice Dept. Will Not Prosecute Eric Holder

Nobody expected them to - it’s just a right wing circus
Politics • Views: 34,999

The Justice Department announced today that the House Republicans who voted to find Eric Holder in criminal contempt are a bunch of grandstanding buffoons.

Not in so many words, of course: Justice Department Won’t Pursue Case Against Holder.

“The longstanding position of the Department of Justice has been and remains that we will not prosecute an executive branch official under the contempt of Congress statute for withholding subpoenaed documents pursuant to a presidential assertion of executive privilege,” says Deputy Attorney General James Cole in a letter to the House speaker, John Boehner.

The letter notes that during the Reagan administration, DOJ took the position that the contempt statute could not constitutionally be applied to an official who asserts the president’s claim of executive privilege. That policy was first articulated in a memo written by Ted Olson when he was at DOJ in 1984.

Cole writes that the position has been asserted several times since then, most recently during the Bush administration in 2008.

He concludes by saying that the Justice Department has determined that Holder’s response to the House committee subpoena “does not constitute a crime” and the Department will not refer the matter to a grand jury “or take any other action to prosecute the attorney general.”

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127 comments
1 Obdicut  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 1:40:45pm

It was different when Reagan did it. That was a conversation between two white guys.

2 Bulworth  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 1:40:45pm

Another magnificent week of wingnut FAIL. Well done.

3 dragonfire1981  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 1:42:08pm

In other words, DOJ to GOP:

4 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 1:44:19pm

See it was different when Reagan did because Reagan could do no wrong ever while likewise Obama can do no right ever.

5 Kragar  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 1:45:23pm

"WE HAVE FOUND YOU IN CONTEMPT!"

"Thats nice kids. Why don't you play outside for a while? Its a nice summer day."

"...Kay."

6 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 1:48:33pm

IT'S A CONSPIRACY! THERE IS NO JUSTICE LEFT! FIRST THE SUPREME COURT RULED THAT SOMETHING CONSTITUTIONAL IS CONSTITUTIONAL, NOW THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT REFUSES TO PROSECUTE A BLACK GUY! WE'RE DOOOOOOOMED!

//

7 nines09  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 1:50:36pm

"WE HAVE TO NUKE WASHINGTON TO SAVE OUR NATION!!!!111TY!!"

8 allegro  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 2:02:26pm

It's rather heartening to see a hopeful trend towards "ENOUGH of this CRAP!" finally. It's about damn time.

9 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 2:07:34pm

re: #8 allegro

It's rather heartening to see a hopeful trend towards "ENOUGH of this CRAP!" finally. It's about damn time.

While it is heartening, the real proof will be in November and whether or not we throw the idiots like Issa out.

10 allegro  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 2:13:42pm

re: #9 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

While it is heartening, the real proof will be in November and whether or not we throw the idiots like Issa out.

Truly. Still 'tis lovely to get a few (big fucking deal) wins here and there.

11 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 2:16:24pm

re: #10 allegro

Agreed.

12 Targetpractice  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 2:16:45pm

And, predictably, there's already whining from Republicans on Issa's committee about this move:

Grassley: Prosecutor Should Show Independence On Holder Contempt

Sen. Chuck Grassley said in a letter to U.S. Attorney Ron Machen on Friday that the Justice Department “put the cart before the horse” by saying that it would not prosecute Attorney General Eric Holder for contempt of Congress.

DOJ said in a letter to DOJ that Holder’s response to a subpoena from Congress “does not constitute a crime,” a letter Grassley said suggests shows Machen has “no such independence at all.”

13 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 2:19:16pm

re: #12 Targetpractice

And, predictably, there's already whining from Republicans on Issa's committee about this move:

Grassley: Prosecutor Should Show Independence On Holder Contempt

Where's that panty-sniffing Ken Starr when you need him?

14 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 2:19:45pm

re: #12 Targetpractice

And, predictably, there's already whining from Republicans on Issa's committee about this move:

Grassley: Prosecutor Should Show Independence On Holder Contempt

Chuck Grassley can go DIAF

15 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 2:21:20pm

Tweety is playing Savage's "Roberts must have been on DRUGS!" bit.

16 Kragar  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 2:21:51pm

re: #14 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

Chuck Grassley can go DIAF

Dance in a Fiat?

Aren't they too small to dance in?

17 Atlas Fails  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 2:22:08pm

These fools thought they were going to add insult to injury after yesterday's SCOTUS ruling, but didn't count on one of their magnificent five actually reading and upholding the Constitution. Now, they've juxtaposed The Biggest Scandal Since Solyndra with a huge political victory for the Obama administration, making them look like the bitter butthurt babies they are.

18 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 2:22:12pm

Setting the Screen:

Definition of a Screen: An offensive player that intentionally gets in a position to “block” a defender from guarding another offensive player in order to put the player in a position to be “open.”

The screen is used mainly as the building block for running and executing a Motion Offense, but screens are also used with Zone Offenses, Inbounds Plays, and with Breaking the Press. The term “Setting a Screen” is often used out of context because although one player is actually “setting” the screen, the screen will never work if the player “using” the screen does not execute their part. Both parts of setting a screen have to work in order to set a successful screen, both parts are equally important. Like any other fundamental skill used in basketball, if you want it to work correctly in the game, it will need to be drilled into the players in practice over and over until they get it. Setting a screen is also called setting a “Pick” by some coaches.

19 allegro  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 2:22:39pm

re: #15 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

Tweety is playing Savage's "Roberts must have been on DRUGS!" bit.

There really isn't anything too offensive for these guys, is there?

20 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 2:24:43pm

re: #19 allegro

Yes, the repubs in Michigan showed that the word "Vagina" was going to far.

21 Kragar  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 2:25:18pm

Fired Up: Prosecutor Shouts, Points And Goes All In At George Zimmerman Hearing

The Florida prosecutor chosen to take on George Zimmerman for the killing of unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin was obviously in no mood to watch his defendant go free for the second time this year.

He shouted. He pointed at Zimmerman. He hammered away at witnesses who were called to defend Zimmerman’s credibility.

De la Rionda’s performance this time was far different than when he went before a Seminole County judge in April to ask for Zimmerman to be kept behind bars without bail until his second-degree murder trial next year.

22 Kragar  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 2:25:51pm

re: #20 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

Yes, the repubs in Michigan showed that the word "Vagina" was going to far.

YOU MENTIONED LADY BITS! SKREEE! SKREEE!

23 Targetpractice  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 2:26:05pm

Like I've said before, yesterday was the high-water mark of this whole "scandal." The odds of it ever going to criminal court were always vanishingly small, while the civil challenge is just gonna eat up time and produce little of value prior to the election. The GOP's only hope now is that the Inspector General's report, due out later this year, in some way shows Holder was pulling the strings behind F&F.

24 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 2:26:49pm

re: #14 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

Chuck Grassley can go DIAF

You want to buy him a ticket to Colorado?

25 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 2:28:09pm

re: #24 Learned Mother of Zion

Sure, why not, he can see how cutting gov't spending works out in the end.

26 Atlas Fails  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 2:29:05pm

Every Republican who prematurely gloated over the ACA's demise:

28 Targetpractice  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 2:32:19pm

re: #21 Kragar

Fired Up: Prosecutor Shouts, Points And Goes All In At George Zimmerman Hearing

Had to work today, so I missed watching the hearing live.

29 Cap'n Magic  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 2:37:39pm

re: #27 Kragar

BTW Rush; When are you moving to Costa Rica like you said you would if Obamacare got upheld?

30 Mattand  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 2:37:55pm

More salt on the wound for the modern US conservative this week. Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch.

Unfortunately, they'll use this week as an excuse to quadruple down on the crazy, rather than to stop and reflect.

31 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 2:38:26pm

re: #21 Kragar

Fired Up: Prosecutor Shouts, Points And Goes All In At George Zimmerman Hearing

This seems paragraph seems odd...

It was one of many small victories for de la Rionda throughout the three-hour hearing. Another came when he got a firefighter who treated Zimmerman’s wounds the night of the shooting to admit that a large amount of blood for a cut to the head was pretty normal. Yet another victory came when he got the defendant’s father, Robert Zimmerman, to admit that he couldn’t tell whether it was his son or someone else shouting for help the first time he heard a recording of a 911 call that captured audio of the shooting.

Normal bleeding from a head wound seems normal. Also every other account I read today reported that Zimmerman's father said that his son was calling for help. I don't think anyone else is reporting the "not sure" victory for the prosecution.

32 Mattand  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 2:38:34pm

re: #29 Cap'n Magic

BTW Rush; When are you moving to Costa Rica like you said you would if Obamacare got upheld?

I'm heading to Google now to look for that.

EDIT: Found it.

33 Obdicut  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 2:40:00pm

re: #31 Killgore Trout

Normal bleeding from a head wound seem normal.

The point is that there wasn't a large amount of blood, so that's abnormal. Meaning, the injuries to his head were very slight.

Zimmerman's claims he was calling for help also interferes with his claim that Trayvon had his hands clamped over his mouth, preventing him from calling for help-- part of his defense for why he felt panicked enough to shoot.

34 Kragar  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 2:40:55pm

re: #31 Killgore Trout

This seems paragraph seems odd...

Normal bleeding from a head wound seem normal. Also every other account I read today reported that Zimmerman's father said that his son was calling for help. I don;t think anyone else is reporting the "not sure" victory for the prosecution.

I would think any time you get an opposition witness to question his own testimony while on the stand would be a victory.

35 Atlas Fails  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 2:41:46pm

re: #29 Cap'n Magic

BTW Rush; When are you moving to Costa Rica like you said you would if Obamacare got upheld?

As soon as BillO admits he's an idiot.

36 Targetpractice  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 2:42:00pm

re: #33 Obdicut

The point is that there wasn't a large amount of blood, so that's abnormal. Meaning, the injuries to his head were very slight.

Zimmerman's claims he was calling for help also interferes with his claim that Trayvon had his hands clamped over his mouth, preventing him from calling for help-- part of his defense for why he felt panicked enough to shoot.

That's pretty good, because I caught the beginning of the firefighter's testimony just before I left and he testified that he informed Zimmerman that he'd need to see a doctor within 24 hours, because the lacerations on his head needed stitches.

37 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 2:43:10pm

re: #31 Killgore Trout

No immediate ruling on Zimmerman bond hearing

Robert Zimmerman testified that the screaming voice was "absolutely George's." During questioning from de la Rionda, the father said he had heard his son scream like the 911 recording before.

De la Rionda asked Robert Zimmerman whether his son's claims that Martin was pressing down on his mouth and nose would have muffled the screams and made it harder to identify him.
Robert Zimmerman maintained that the voice on the tape was his son's and added his thoughts on the confrontation that led up to the shooting.

"From the looks of my son's injuries, Trayvon Martin's hands weren't just on his nose and mouth," he said.

No mention of the "not sure" victory TPM is claiming.

38 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 2:45:01pm

re: #34 Kragar

I would think any time you get an opposition witness to question his own testimony while on the stand would be a victory.

True but I can't find any other reports that the witness doubted is own testimony. See #37. under cross examination "Robert Zimmerman maintained that the voice on the tape was his son's ".

39 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 2:45:07pm

Louisiana state library funding has been eliminated

Citing budget concerns, Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal has signed a $25-billion budget that eliminates almost $900,000 in state funding for its libraries. In a statement, the governor’s chief budget aide, Paul Rainwater, said, “In tight budget times, we prioritized funding for healthcare and education. Operations such as local libraries can be supported with local, not state dollars.”

Of course Jindal is also refusing to accept Federal grant money to set up a public healthcare exchange.

40 Targetpractice  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 2:45:09pm

re: #37 Killgore Trout

No immediate ruling on Zimmerman bond hearing

No mention of the "not sure" victory TPM is claiming.

And la Rionda's pulling out his ass, because Zimmerman's recall of events was that Martin tried to shut him up after he screamed out for help. And then he removed that hand when he caught sight of Zimmerman's gun in its holster.

41 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 2:47:33pm

re: #40 Targetpractice

And la Rionda's pulling out his ass, because Zimmerman's recall of events was that Martin tried to shut him up after he screamed out for help. And then he removed that hand when he caught sight of Zimmerman's gun in its holster.

Yeah, It looks like normal cross examination stuff trying to trip up a witness. It doesn't appear to have worked.

42 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 2:47:44pm

Incompetent Texas Republicans are incompetent:

The Republican Party of Texas’ recently adopted 2012 platform contains a plank that opposes the teaching of “critical thinking skills” in schools. The party says it was a mistake, but is now stuck with the plank until the next state convention in 2014.

The plank in question, on “Knowledge-Based Education,” reads as follows:

We oppose the teaching of Higher Order Thinking Skills (HOTS) (values clarification), critical thinking skills and similar programs that are simply a relabeling of Outcome-Based Education (OBE) (mastery learning) which focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of challenging the student’s fixed beliefs and undermining parental authority.
Elsewhere in the document, the platform stipulates that “[e]very Republican is responsible for implementing this platform.”

Contacted by TPM on Thursday, Republican Party of Texas (RPT) Communications Director Chris Elam said the “critical thinking skills” language made it into the platform by mistake.

43 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 2:49:50pm

re: #42 goddamnedfrank

Contacted by TPM on Thursday, Republican Party of Texas (RPT) Communications Director Chris Elam said the “critical thinking skills” language made it into the platform by mistake.

Accidentally on purpose...

44 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 2:51:03pm

re: #42 goddamnedfrank

Incompetent Texas Republicans are incompetent:

Contacted by TPM on Thursday, Republican Party of Texas (RPT) Communications Director Chris Elam said the “critical thinking skills” language made it into the platform by mistake.

Texas TPGOP needs Critical Proofreading Skills 101.

45 wrenchwench  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 2:51:23pm

re: #42 goddamnedfrank

Incompetent Texas Republicans are incompetent:

Chris Elam said the “critical thinking skills” language made it into the platform by mistake.

Because the skills themselves didn't make it into Chris Elam's head on purpose.

46 Mattand  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 2:51:45pm

re: #39 goddamnedfrank

Louisiana state library funding has been eliminated

Of course Jindal is also refusing to accept Federal grant money to set up a public healthcare exchange.

"Thanks for voting for me, but I feel it's in your best interest to have your access to decent healthcare be as difficult as possible. Also, I'm cutting off your access to books. Vote Republican!"

47 allegro  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 2:55:36pm

re: #42 goddamnedfrank

Incompetent Texas Republicans are incompetent:

Contacted by TPM on Thursday, Republican Party of Texas (RPT) Communications Director Chris Elam said the “critical thinking skills” language made it into the platform by mistake.

Yeah and Jindall has cut funding for public libraries. They certainly want the public to be ignorant, stupid, and meek... but we aren't yet.

48 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 3:01:36pm

On Zimmerman, screams and smothering:

That Feb. 29 meeting was the one in which Serino and Singleton probed inconsistencies in what Zimmerman said in the unredacted version of his non-emergency call and what he told Singleton hours after the shooting. The detectives then played one of the 911 calls (scroll to 16:42) placed during the confrontation between Zimmerman and Martin.

“You hear that voice in the background? That’s you,” Serino said. “Are you hearing yourself?”
“It doesn’t even sound like me,” Zimmerman said.
“That’s you,” Serino repeated.
They then listen to the call until the fatal gunshot. Serino asked Zimmerman about his assertion that Martin put his hands over his nose and mouth. “He smothered you, correct?” Serino asked. “At what point did he smother you? Was it right before you shot him?” Zimmerman can be heard saying faintly that he doesn’t remember. Serino played the call again.

“I need to give an approximate time when he starts smothering you,” the detective said. Zimmerman mumbled something I couldn’t make out, but Serino interjected, “That’s you yelling for help.” He let the call go on — with all bloodcurdling screaming — until after the gunshot. “Can you recall at what point the suffocation happened? Prior to you shooting him, he was on you, correct?”

“Yes, sir,” Zimmerman said.

“And you were able to reach into your holster,” Serino inquired.

“Yes, sir.”

“You shot him at point-blank range,” Serino said. “He was on top of you, right?”

“Yes, sir.”

Serino noted that during the yelling “nobody came out to help you and I can’t pinpoint where you were smothered. That’s the problem I’m having. And nobody’s sayin’ they saw him smothering you. People are sayin’ they saw him on top of you, but they didn’t see the smothering part.”

Singleton pointed out that the screaming is continuous and that if Zimmerman were being smothered it should stop. “[W]e don’t hear it stop.”

“We don’t hear him at all, either,” Serino added. “Is he being quiet? Is he whispering to you or something? Is he calm?”

“He’s angry,” Zimmerman said.

“I don’t hear him, though,” Serino responded.

Singleton asked if Martin was showing anger. “He’s on top of me and he’s telling me, ‘Shut the [expletive] up! Shut the [expletive] up!”

Serino raised a good point. Why don’t we hear Trayvon? Why don’t we hear “Shut the [expletive] up!” as loudly as we hear the heart-wrenching screams for help?

One observation: that's a very weird interview. Even in followup to feed the suspect back their own story, helpfully assert that it's their voice on the tape and guide them along the repetition seems incredibly non-neutral and really inappropriate.

49 gwangung  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 3:08:50pm

re: #48 goddamnedfrank

Huh.

Yeah, my feeling is that a lot of Zimmerman's testimony doesn't hold together. To me, that's enough to go to trial and investigate further....

50 Targetpractice  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 3:12:49pm

re: #49 gwangung

Huh.

Yeah, my feeling is that a lot of Zimmerman's testimony doesn't hold together. To me, that's enough to go to trial and investigate further...

His testimony being questionable is not indicative of guilt.

51 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 3:14:47pm

re: #9 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

While it is heartening, the real proof will be in November and whether or not we throw the idiots like Issa out.

Issa getting tossed from his seat is unlikely. Isn't his district something like +10% GOP? (Which I presume is the result of some sort of gerrymander to pile as many GOP as reasonably possible in one district in order to get better Democratic Party ratios in surrounding districts.)

52 gwangung  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 3:14:56pm

re: #50 Targetpractice

His testimony being questionable is not indicative of guilt.

A trial determines guilt.

A contradictory testimony suggests further investigation and a trial would not be out of place.

53 Randall Gross  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 3:16:35pm

This is Itunes song of the week & free atm:

[Link: itunes.apple.com...]

54 Targetpractice  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 3:16:40pm

re: #52 gwangung

A trial determines guilt.

A contradictory testimony suggests further investigation and a trial would not be out of place.

Unfortunately, case law in Florida is quite clear that the burden is on the state to disprove Zimmerman's assertion of self-defense. Just saying "His story doesn't add up" does not absolve them of that burden.

55 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 3:17:08pm

re: #30 Mattand

More salt on the wound for the modern US conservative this week. Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch.

Unfortunately, they'll use this week as an excuse to quadruple down on the crazy, rather than to stop and reflect.

Pour salt on a slug and they start oozing massive amounts of slime in response to the irritation. I think we saw a political equivalent to that in the last 36 hours.

56 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 3:19:49pm

re: #42 goddamnedfrank

Incompetent Texas Republicans are incompetent:

Contacted by TPM on Thursday, Republican Party of Texas (RPT) Communications Director Chris Elam said the “critical thinking skills” language made it into the platform by mistake.

Standard "choose to be known as a liar or an incompetent - choose incompetent" reaction. Third option is to forwardly own it of course, which opens things for being thought of as fools.

57 gwangung  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 3:23:09pm

re: #54 Targetpractice

Unfortunately, case law in Florida is quite clear that the burden is on the state to disprove Zimmerman's assertion of self-defense. Just saying "His story doesn't add up" does not absolve them of that burden.

No, the standard is not disprove--again, that is for a trial to determine.

58 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 3:24:05pm

re: #31 Killgore Trout

Also every other account I read today reported that Zimmerman's father said that his son was calling for help. I don't think anyone else is reporting the "not sure" victory for the prosecution.

What does this mean to you, that it didn't happen because other reporters chose not to report it? You seem to be implying that the truth can be arrived at by looking at a preponderance of reporting. You might want to consider that there's no conflict here, that the two facts aren't mutually exclusive. TPM is reporting what Zimmerman father's reaction was on first hearing the tape, admitted to under cross examination -> that he was't sure whose voice it was. Subsequently he seems to have found certainty and he testified that he is positive now.

The fact that his initial reaction was uncertainty is germane, since the severity of his son's situation has increased dramatically between then and now, and it's reasonable to think this might be coloring his perceptions.

59 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 3:27:15pm

re: #58 goddamnedfrank

What does this mean to you, that it didn't happen because other reporters chose not to report it? You seem to be implying that the truth can be arrived at by looking at a preponderance of reporting. You might want to consider that there's no conflict here, that the two facts aren't mutually exclusive. TPM is reporting what Zimmerman father's reaction was on first hearing the tape, admitted to under cross examination, that he was't sure whose voice it was. Subsequently he seem to have found certainty and he testified that he is positive now.

The fact that his initial reaction was uncertainty is germane, since the severity of his son's situation has increased dramatically between then and now, and it's reasonable to think this might be coloring his perceptions.

Ah, ok. I didn't catch the nuance of the initial response the the first time he heard the recording.

60 Targetpractice  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 3:27:24pm

re: #57 gwangung

No, the standard is not disprove--again, that is for a trial to determine.

What today was was a hearing to determine if Zimmerman should be released on bond again. Last I checked, O'Mara hasn't even filed for a SYG pre-trial hearing yet.

61 Targetpractice  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 3:30:22pm

re: #58 goddamnedfrank

What does this mean to you, that it didn't happen because other reporters chose not to report it? You seem to be implying that the truth can be arrived at by looking at a preponderance of reporting. You might want to consider that there's no conflict here, that the two facts aren't mutually exclusive. TPM is reporting what Zimmerman father's reaction was on first hearing the tape, admitted to under cross examination, that he was't sure whose voice it was. Subsequently he seem to have found certainty and he testified that he is positive now.

The fact that his initial reaction was uncertainty is germane, since the severity of his son's situation has increased dramatically between then and now, and it's reasonable to think this might be coloring his perceptions.

This is probably the point in the discussion where I point out that Trayvon's father initially was also doubtful that the cries were from his son.

62 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 3:33:46pm

re: #61 Targetpractice

This is probably the point in the discussion where I point out that Trayvon's father initially was also doubtful that the cries were from his son.

With the calls for help I'm still leaning towards them coming from Zimmerman. He told police he was calling for help when they first interviewed him and I doubt he would have the forethought at the time to take claims to Trayvon's calls. He also wouldn't have known that 9-11 calls had recorded the calls for help.

63 Targetpractice  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 3:42:30pm

re: #62 Killgore Trout

With the calls for help I'm still leaning towards them coming from Zimmerman. He told police he was calling for help when they first interviewed him and I doubt he would have the forethought at the time to take claims to Trayvon's calls. He also wouldn't have known that 9-11 calls had recorded the calls for help.

I'm inclined to believe that any discrepancies in Zimmerman's interviews were due to 1) the fact that they were so soon after a traumatic event and 2) they were being collected while he was still suffering from injuries due to that event. He passed the voice stress test, which indicates that he at least believes what he's saying. And Sorieno tried several times to trip him up, such as suggesting that there was a witness who'd gotten a video of the confrontation, and he didn't try to revise himself, but instead expressed hope that somebody had such video evidence.

64 RadicalModerate  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 3:43:27pm

It looks like the Nevada Highway Patrol has some SERIOUS explaining to do.

NHP Troopers Sue Department Over K-9 Program

LAS VEGAS -- A group of Nevada Highway Patrol troopers and a retired police sergeant have filed a racketeering complaint against the NHP and Las Vegas Metro Police in U.S. District Court.

The complaint alleges that after then-Gov. Jim Gibbons approved a K-9 program to target drug runners on Nevada's highways, Nevada Highway Patrol Commander Chris Perry intentionally undermined the program.

The complaint alleges that the drug-sniffing dogs used by troopers in the program were intentionally being trained to operate as so-called trick ponies, or dogs that provide officers false alerts for the presence of drugs.

The dogs were being trained to alert their handlers by cues, instead of by picking up a drug's scent by sniffing, the complaint said. When a dog gives a false alert, this resulted in illegal searches and seizures, including money and property, the complaint said.

A copy of the complaint can be found here (PDF)

65 Obdicut  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 3:44:13pm

re: #64 RadicalModerate

Fucking hell. That's highly organized corruption, there.

66 engineer cat  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 3:45:58pm

drug-sniffing dogs

dog sniffing drugs can be useful too

67 Digital Display  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 3:54:42pm

re: #66 engineer cat

drug-sniffing dogs

dog sniffing drugs can be useful too

My new favorite show is Alaska State Troopers. It is just awesome, Better than Cops even though my late friend Alan appeared on Cops in Speedway.
Here is the deal.. They use a lot of drug sniffing dogs in traffic stops where there is suspicion of impairment or trafficking..
So it takes forever walking around the car with encouragement from the officer in some sort of code words...I'm yelling at the TV..Look dudes, What if he smells a ham sandwich inside? It's not fair! I say you get 1 minute with the dog and that's it.. Go to a Freaking Judge.. :)

68 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 4:04:57pm

re: #67 Digital Display

What if he smells a ham sandwich inside?

Smugglers should rig their vehicles with a button that drops a couple dozen tree squirrels, dog goes after 'em like an air to air missile after chaff/IR flares.

69 Obdicut  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 4:06:24pm

re: #68 goddamnedfrank

70 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 4:08:17pm

Really?
Egypt's New President Vows to Win Release of World Trade Center Plotter

Egypt's president-elect has vowed to win the release of an Egyptian cleric jailed by the U.S. for planning the first attack on New York's World Trade Center.

Omar Abdel-Rahman, "the blind sheikh," is serving a life sentence in a federal prison for his role in the 1993 bombing that killed six people in lower Manhattan. The attack on the World Trade Center launched by al Qaeda eight years later on Sept. 11, 2001, killed nearly 3,000 people.

""I see banners for Omar Abdel Rahman's family, and for prisoners arrested according to martial rulings and detainees from the beginning of the revolution," said Egyptian president-elect Mohammed Morsi to a buoyant crowd of Islamist supporters in Cairo's Tahrir Square on Friday. "It is my duty to make every effort, and I will beginning tomorrow, to secure their release, among them Omar Abdel Rahman."

72 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 4:10:08pm

Jindal probably damaged his chances of getting the VP nom today:

On a conference call this morning, Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal (R) got a little tongue-tied during his defense of Romney and a repeal of the law.

“There's only one candidate, Gov. Romney, who's committed that he will repeal the Obamney -- the Obamacare tax increase,” Jindal said. “He will repeal Obamacare as soon as he's elected.”

Though Jindal quickly correct himself, the damage was done. Just an hour later, Maryland Gov. Martin O’Malley (D) had already seized on the comments to show the similarities between the two laws.

73 Kragar  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 4:10:43pm

re: #70 Killgore Trout

Really?
Egypt's New President Vows to Win Release of World Trade Center Plotter

Because with all the problems facing Egypt, thats obviously the most important.

74 Kragar  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 4:12:22pm

re: #71 Varek Raith

Fox's Todd Starnes Promotes Smear That Justice Roberts' Medication May Have Influenced His Decision Making

Of all the possible reasons, once again they go for the dumbest.

75 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 4:12:27pm

re: #71 Varek Raith

Fox's Todd Starnes Promotes Smear That Justice Roberts' Medication May Have Influenced His Decision Making

Well, theoretically Roberts does know what it's like to live with a pre-existing condition and be judged by it, even if it's only from the perspective of a very wealthy, well connected and successful Justice.

I'm guessing that's not what they meant though.

77 Targetpractice  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 4:18:59pm
78 Kragar  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 4:19:26pm
79 Targetpractice  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 4:19:54pm

re: #72 goddamnedfrank

Jindal probably damaged his chances of getting the VP nom today:

Romney's list is getting shorter and shorter. Every front-runner for the VP slot is in danger of being declared an apostate.

80 Varek Raith  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 4:22:15pm
81 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 4:23:18pm

re: #76 Varek Raith

Georgia Sheriff Who Dressed Up As KKK: Criticism Of Me Is ‘Sickening And Hurts My Family’
Image: KKK-outfit-e1340887985296.jpg

What. The. Fuck.

So, if you really had the orbital laser platform how quickly and how far would the population of the United States drop?

82 Varek Raith  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 4:24:45pm

re: #81 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

So, if you really had the orbital laser platform how quickly and how far would the population of the United States drop?

A single blast vaporizes about 350km. So... Real quick.

83 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 4:28:43pm

re: #82 Varek Raith

A single blast vaporizes about 350km. So... Real quick.

You need something a little more exact or discrete. That sounds like hunting squirrels with 2000lb JDAMs.

84 b_sharp  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 4:29:28pm

re: #83 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

You need something a little more exact or discrete. That sounds like hunting squirrels with 2000lb JDAMs.

And your point is...?

85 Targetpractice  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 4:32:03pm

re: #84 b_sharp

And your point is...?

That 2000lb is overkill. 250lb would be more than sufficient.

86 Varek Raith  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 4:32:12pm

re: #83 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

You need something a little more exact or discrete. That sounds like hunting squirrels with 2000lb JDAMs.

Oh please.
I hunt squirrel with 500kt devices.

87 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 4:32:39pm

re: #84 b_sharp

And your point is...?

Collateral damage. If Philly gets targeted due to some asshole being irritating I would hope to not be drawn in and vaporized.

88 b_sharp  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 4:33:27pm

re: #86 Varek Raith

Oh please.
I hunt squirrel with 500kt devices.

You have to be sure.

89 b_sharp  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 4:34:25pm

re: #87 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Collateral damage. If Philly gets targeted due to some asshole being irritating I would hope to not be drawn in and vaporized.

Some squirrels are worth the collateral damage.

90 Varek Raith  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 4:34:28pm

re: #87 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Collateral damage. If Philly gets targeted due to some asshole being irritating I would hope to not be drawn in and vaporized.

Er, Philly is too close to NJ. If the air over NJ ignites.....
So, you're safe.

91 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 4:35:55pm

re: #90 Varek Raith

Er, Philly is too close to NJ. If the air over NJ ignites...
So, you're safe.

That's just a cover story to protect all the broccoli in the truck farms.

92 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 4:37:20pm

re: #79 Targetpractice

Romney's list is getting shorter and shorter. Every front-runner for the VP slot is in danger of being declared an apostate.

Romney needs a VP with all the answers. I suspect he'll be down to Colossus or Skynet before too long.
/

93 Varek Raith  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 4:38:49pm

re: #92 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Romney needs a VP with all the answers. I suspect he'll be down to Colossus or Skynet before too long.
/

I already own Skynet.
LEGION as well.
Colossus contracted a virus somehow...;)
So, he's stuck with HAL.

94 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 4:41:03pm

re: #92 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Romney needs a VP with all the answers. I suspect he'll be down to Colossus or Skynet before too long.
/

Chris Christie, Vogon Poet Laureate.

95 Targetpractice  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 4:41:16pm

re: #92 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Romney needs a VP with all the answers. I suspect he'll be down to Colossus or Skynet before too long.
/

Nah, the perfect VP for the Romneybot has already been found: John Henry Eden.

/

96 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 4:42:16pm

re: #93 Varek Raith

I already own Skynet.
LEGION as well.
Colossus contracted a virus somehow...;)
So, he's stuck with HAL.

Mitt: HAL, run program to erase my Romneycare record.
HAL: I can't do that... Mitt.

Mitt: HAL, you're laughing at me, aren't you.
HAL: I am not programmed for humor and other emotions, but yes.

97 Eventual Carrion  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 4:42:50pm

re: #76 Varek Raith

Georgia Sheriff Who Dressed Up As KKK: Criticism Of Me Is ‘Sickening And Hurts My Family’
Image: KKK-outfit-e1340887985296.jpg

What. The. Fuck.

Hurts his family? Were they hung by their necks in a tall tree until dead while everyone had a fucking BBQ? If not, they weren't hurt that bad. Cry me fucking river.

98 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 4:44:10pm

re: #93 Varek Raith

I already own Skynet.
LEGION as well.
Colossus contracted a virus somehow...;)
So, he's stuck with HAL.

Please! I want a Biden - HAL 9000 debate so bad.

99 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 4:46:51pm

re: #76 Varek Raith

Georgia Sheriff Who Dressed Up As KKK: Criticism Of Me Is ‘Sickening And Hurts My Family’
Image: KKK-outfit-e1340887985296.jpg

What. The. Fuck.

He didn't "dress up". Those robes look shockingly official.

100 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 4:49:17pm

re: #99 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012

He didn't "dress up". Those robes look shockingly official.

Do costume shops carry KKK robes?

101 erik_t  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 4:52:06pm

Hey who else enjoys fighting Linux all evening?!

GNOME 3 is worse than Stalin.

102 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 4:58:14pm

re: #100 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Do costume shops carry KKK robes?

With the official cross in a red circle and blood drop symbol and everything? Maybe in KKK town.

103 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 4:58:25pm

re: #100 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Do costume shops carry KKK robes?

Hope not!!

104 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 4:59:28pm

So where would you get such official looking robes?

These 22 year old guys sew?

105 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 5:00:37pm

re: #104 Mostly sane, most of the time.

So where would you get such official looking robes?

Probably hand me downs from dear old dad.

106 b_sharp  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 5:00:57pm

re: #101 erik_t

Hey who else enjoys fighting Linux all evening?!

GNOME 3 is worse than Stalin.

Servers don't use a GUI.
Go with KDE.

107 allegro  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 5:03:05pm

About a year ago I was chatting with a couple who were passing through, staying at the park for a night. I asked them where they were from - a typical question in an RV park. The guy said "are you familiar with Vidor?" I said, "Sure! Home of the KKK and sunset laws. Woman pulled a shotgun on me and my black co-worker there once." The guy said, "I was the Sheriff there for 15 years."

Oh. Meep.

108 erik_t  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 5:03:39pm

re: #106 b_sharp

Servers don't use a GUI.
Go with KDE.

Give me Gnome 2 or give me death. Somehow Linux has gone backwards in both usability and ease of installation in the last five years. Quite a feat.

(actually trying to make KDE quit shitting itself right now)

109 b_sharp  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 5:04:34pm

re: #108 erik_t

Give me Gnome 2 or give me death. Somehow Linux has gone backwards in both usability and ease of installation in the last five years. Quite a feat.

(actually trying to make KDE quit shitting itself right now)

Ubuntu?

111 erik_t  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 5:09:09pm

re: #109 b_sharp

Ubuntu?

Started there; none of the last four versions would even boot to liveCD, let alone install. Amusing errors like 'kernel not yet installed!' No shit? It's an install CD. Install the kernel.

Tried OpenSuSE; went to GNOME 3 hell. Attempted CentOS; would not boot to liveCD. Tried to boot Ubuntu 12.04 from within SuSE; can't find the damned executable or whatever. Moving to OpenSUSE/KDE next.

Makes a man long for Win98 DLL Hell.

112 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 5:11:37pm

re: #77 Targetpractice

*facepalm*

No, what's sickening is dressing up in a KKK outfit and not manning up to it when you're called it on you asshat.

113 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 5:16:25pm

re: #112 HappyWarrior

No, what's sickening is dressing up in a KKK outfit and not manning up to it when you're called it on you asshat.

His OS sent him:
Human Stupidity error has occurred.
Incompetent, Liar, Fool?

114 b_sharp  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 5:20:23pm

re: #111 erik_t

Started there; none of the last four versions would even boot to liveCD, let alone install. Amusing errors like 'kernel not yet installed!' No shit? It's an install CD. Install the kernel.

Tried OpenSuSE; went to GNOME 3 hell. Attempted CentOS; would not boot to liveCD. Tried to boot Ubuntu 12.04 from within SuSE; can't find the damned executable or whatever. Moving to OpenSUSE/KDE next.

Makes a man long for Win98 DLL Hell.

Sounds like you may have a strange partition set up, unsupported hardware or a faulty CDROM.

I've installed Ubuntu 11.10, 12.04, CentOS 6.2, and Debian on several different hardware sets the last couple of months with just a little tweeking to the RAID partitions.

115 erik_t  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 5:23:50pm

re: #114 b_sharp

Sounds like you may have a strange partition set up, unsupported hardware or a faulty CDROM.

I've installed Ubuntu 11.10, 12.04, CentOS 6.2, and Debian on several different hardware sets the last couple of months with just a little tweeking to the RAID partitions.

I've nuked all of that more than once; the drive works fine.

116 b_sharp  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 5:30:03pm

re: #115 erik_t

I've nuked all of that more than once; the drive works fine.

Have you tried installing using a USB drive?

I'm trying to figure out why you're having kernel errors. The Gnome/KDE errors may be due to a screwy kernel install, or flaky graphics drivers.

If your system is using spanky new hardware, driver problems are going to haunt you.

117 erik_t  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 5:31:12pm

re: #116 b_sharp

/curses ivy bridge

118 b_sharp  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 5:38:37pm

re: #117 erik_t

/curses ivy bridge

You may have to wait.

Have you gone to the Ubuntu/Linux forums to see if someone has solved the problem?

119 erik_t  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 5:39:29pm

re: #118 b_sharp

You may have to wait.

Have you gone to the Ubuntu/Linux forums to see if someone has solved the problem?

I'd sooner ask Fox Nation for health insurance advice.

120 b_sharp  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 5:42:23pm

re: #119 erik_t

I'd sooner ask Fox Nation for health insurance advice.

LOL. Sometimes it helps.

121 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 5:48:30pm

re: #101 erik_t

Hey who else enjoys fighting Linux all evening?!

GNOME 3 is worse than Stalin.

NetBSD 5.1.2 with OLWM. Lean & mean.

122 ozbloke  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 6:03:14pm

re: #119 erik_t

I'd sooner ask Fox Nation for health insurance advice.

Have you tried a Debian netinstall?

123 b_sharp  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 6:03:25pm

re: #121 William Barnett-Lewis

NetBSD 5.1.2 with OLWM. Lean & mean.

BSD?

Get real.

124 b_sharp  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 6:04:47pm

re: #122 ozbloke

Have you tried a Debian netinstall?

There you go.

125 b_sharp  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 6:10:06pm

Note to self: LGF does not take the bait for a Linux/BSD flamefest.

Perhaps a Windoz/Apple flamefest.

126 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 6:15:11pm

re: #123 b_sharp

BSD?

Get real.

The Daemon eats penguins :)

But then, I run x86, 68k, PPC & VAX these days. And of course, OS X is FreeBSD under the eye candy. Different priorities, I guess, but it sure is nice having the same code on all of them.

127 b_sharp  Fri, Jun 29, 2012 6:21:06pm

re: #126 William Barnett-Lewis

The Daemon eats penguins :)

But then, I run x86, 68k, PPC & VAX these days. And of course, OS X is FreeBSD under the eye candy. Different priorities, I guess, but it sure is nice having the same code on all of them.

I have no problem with BSD, I was just trying to get a (heated) discussion going that had nothing to do with Windoz or Apple.


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