Sunday Night Open
How about an old-fashioned no-frills come-as-you-are Sunday night open thread?
How about an old-fashioned no-frills come-as-you-are Sunday night open thread?
1 | Charles Johnson Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:12:09pm |
The new Obama campaign ad:
3 | researchok Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:16:54pm |
Good ad, smart to focus on the preexisting condition aspect of the ACA.
5 | jaunte Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:22:30pm |
re: #1 Charles Johnson
The Republicans don't have an answer to that message.
6 | Charles Johnson Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:25:35pm |
#RepublicanMovies The Incredibly Strange Creatures Who Stopped Thinking and Became Mixed Up Theocrats— Charles Johnson (@Lizardoid) July 1, 2012
7 | Targetpractice Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:28:28pm |
"Dr. Orangelove, or: How I Learned To Stop Thinking And Love Dominionism."
8 | Gus Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:28:34pm |
10 | Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:29:56pm |
11 | Targetpractice Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:30:26pm |
re: #5 jaunte
The Republicans don't have an answer to that message.
To address an issue, you first have to acknowledge it exists. And the GOP seem bound and determined to avoid acknowledging that our healthcare system is broken. A system where the rich have unfettered access to the best care and the poor are left to rely upon a patchwork of charities, the social safety net, and whatever they can scrape together is only a problem in their minds in that there's a safety net at all.
12 | jaunte Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:31:58pm |
re: #11 Targetpractice
I don't see how interstate competition for insurance companies is going to help insure the poor and higher-risk citizens.
13 | gwangung Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:33:04pm |
re: #11 Targetpractice
To address an issue, you first have to acknowledge it exists. And the GOP seem bound and determined to avoid acknowledging that our healthcare system is broken. A system where the rich have unfettered access to the best care and the poor are left to rely upon a patchwork of charities, the social safety net, and whatever they can scrape together is only a problem in their minds in that there's a safety net at all.
And folks in the middle are rapidly being pushed towards the cliff...
14 | Killgore Trout Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:33:46pm |
re: #1 Charles Johnson
The new Obama campaign ad:
[Embedded content]
Could be a big winner of an ad if the facts check out. She says she was 26 when diagnosed and my first skim through google shows that although the changes took effect in 2010 it was only for people under 19
Effective September 2010, children (below age 19) with pre-existing conditions may not be denied access to their parents' health plan and insurance companies will no longer be allowed to insure a child, but exclude treatments for that child's pre-existing condition.
Starting in 2014, this provision will apply to adults as well. Until 2014, the information below remains valid for anyone over age 19.
Did she actually benefit from healthcare reform?
15 | Page 3 in the Binder of Women Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:34:50pm |
OT staying with peeps who have 1st class kitchen tools. Out of my realm. Sliced my thumb like the potato I was a slicing. Ewe. Luckily I felt it and stopped it before my thumb skin became Part of the salad.
I am stuck on bandaid cause bandaid's stuck on me!
16 | Gus Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:35:43pm |
re: #15 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012
OT staying with peeps who have 1st class kitchen tools. Out of my realm. Sliced my thumb like the potato I was a slicing. Ewe. Luckily I felt it and stopped it before my thumb skin became Part of the salad.
I am stuck on bandaid cause bandaid's stuck on me!
That's like a typical day at Arby's.
//
17 | Targetpractice Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:36:00pm |
re: #12 jaunte
I don't see how interstate competition for insurance companies is going to help insure the poor and higher-risk citizens.
It's not, and anybody who says it is has been suckered by the insurance companies into buying their bullshit. One of the biggest bitching points of the GOP about ACA has been that the Feds, through HHS, can set minimum requirements on health insurance policies. Without such requirements, interstate "competition" is just going to see all the insurance companies set up shop in the state with the fewest regulations, then sell bare-bones policies that cover virtually nothing but will offer plenty of "upgrades."
18 | jaunte Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:36:26pm |
What Supreme Court decision?
Gov. Rick Scott: Florida will not follow health care law
19 | bernielomax Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:38:47pm |
how come congress and judges are exempt from this wonderful O-care? Please tell me im misinformed so ill feel a lil better about this, i mean the way it was passed was ridiculous
20 | Targetpractice Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:40:13pm |
re: #19 bernielomax
how come congress and judges are exempt from this wonderful O-care? Please tell me im misinformed so ill feel a lil better about this, i mean the way it was passed was ridiculous
They're exempt because the wrote the law so that they were. That was one of the big boondoggles of its drafting, when it came out that they'd written in exemptions for themselves so they could keep their Cadillac care on the taxpayer dime. The suggestion was made that they could keep it until the exchanges were up and running, but it got deep-sixed.
21 | Gus Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:41:04pm |
re: #19 bernielomax
how come congress and judges are exempt from this wonderful O-care? Please tell me im misinformed so ill feel a lil better about this, i mean the way it was passed was ridiculous
Falling on the knife with your fist comment?
22 | bernielomax Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:43:35pm |
re: #20 Targetpractice
so if thats the case, dont people see the " do as I say,not as I do mentality"? LMAO that raises concerns.. again the way it was passed wasnt right either IMHO
23 | Targetpractice Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:44:30pm |
re: #22 bernielomax
so if thats the case, dont people see the " do as I say,not as I do mentality"? LMAO that raises concerns.. again the way it was passed wasnt right either IMHO
What do you mean by "wasn't right"?
24 | SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:44:44pm |
re: #19 bernielomax
how come congress and judges are exempt from this wonderful O-care? Please tell me im misinformed so ill feel a lil better about this, i mean the way it was passed was ridiculous
Politifact says you're misinformed.
[Link: www.politifact.com...]
You feel any better?
26 | bernielomax Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:45:26pm |
re: #21 Gus
lol maybe I did fall on it~ Chris Farley style... but cmon both partys have major issues, I would think most here agree on that
27 | jaunte Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:46:15pm |
Congress Exempt from Health Bill?
Q: Does the health care bill specifically exempt members of Congress and their staffs from its provisions?
A: No. This twisted claim is based on misrepresentations of the House and Senate bills, neither of which exempts lawmakers.
28 | Decatur Deb Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:46:41pm |
29 | Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:46:54pm |
re: #25 Charles Johnson
Looks like we acquired a wingnut.
It's a little hot outside for a barbecue, but I'll get the grill warmed up just the same. What seasoning do we want tonight?
30 | Targetpractice Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:47:45pm |
31 | Charles Johnson Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:48:16pm |
Hit several threads already with wingnut pushback.
32 | goddamnedfrank Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:48:23pm |
re: #14 Killgore Trout
Could be a big winner of an ad if the facts check out. She says she was 26 when diagnosed and my first skim through google shows that although the changes took effect in 2010 it was only for people under 19
Did she actually benefit from healthcare reform?
The section you linked to specifically pertains to adding children to their parent's plan:
Effective September 2010, children (below age 19) with pre-existing conditions may not be denied access to their parents' health plan and insurance companies will no longer be allowed to insure a child, but exclude treatments for that child's pre-existing condition.
That's not what happened in this case, she bought PCIP insurance through Ohio's program, because Ohio has already complied with this aspect of the law. PCIP insurance is set up to cover citizens who have been diagnosed with a pre-existing condition and been uninsured for six months prior to their application.
Since she's from Ohio I'll direct you to the healthcare.gov PCIP Ohio page.
If she lived in Texas she'd would have had to apply to the federal PCIP program.
33 | Killgore Trout Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:48:30pm |
re: #29 thedopefishlives
It's a little hot outside for a barbecue, but I'll get the grill warmed up just the same. What seasoning do we want tonight?
Allspice. It always gets me compliments from the hippies cycling past my house.
36 | Amory Blaine Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:50:57pm |
Yay. Now we get to spend time refuting false talking points!!!
That never gets tiring.
Barf*
37 | jaunte Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:51:07pm |
38 | Charles Johnson Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:51:14pm |
39 | Digital Display Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:51:19pm |
re: #35 bernielomax
no sir
Today is your first day here..Welcome..Tell us something about yourself..
40 | Killgore Trout Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:52:00pm |
re: #32 goddamnedfrank
The section you linked to specifically pertains to adding children to their parents plans:
That's not what happened in this case, she bough PCIP insurance through Ohio's program, because Ohio has already complied with this aspect of the law. PCIP insurance is set up to cover citizens who have been diagnosed with a pre-existing condition and been uninsured for six months prior to their application.
Since she's from Ohio I'll direct you to the PCIP Ohio page.
If she lived in Texas she'd would have had to apply to the federal PCIP program.
Ok, good info but was her access to insurance helped by Obamacare? I'm not seeing when the rules changed.
41 | bernielomax Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:52:03pm |
re: #31 Charles Johnson
omg , i was just posting a few times... I think both partys got issues. and I do think drudge is more center than msnbc. that makes me a wingnut?
42 | Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:52:35pm |
re: #36 Amory Blaine
Yay. Now we get to spend time refuting false talking points!!!
That never gets tiring.Barf*
I sometimes find it therapeutic. This is why I hang out at JREF.
43 | bernielomax Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:52:57pm |
re: #38 Charles Johnson
lol thats why I used the name, its a classic cheesey 80s movie
44 | Amory Blaine Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:53:47pm |
re: #41 bernielomax
omg , i was just posting a few times... I think both partys got issues. and I do think drudge is more center than msnbc. that makes me a wingnut?
You also think:
congress and judges are exempt from this wonderful O-care? Please tell me im misinformed so ill feel a lil better about this, i mean the way it was passed was ridiculous
45 | Killgore Trout Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:54:03pm |
re: #41 bernielomax
omg , i was just posting a few times... I think both partys got issues. and I do think drudge is more center than msnbc. that makes me a wingnut?
By community standards: Probably yes. I see them as different sorts of garbage but you can lump them together if you wish.
47 | Amory Blaine Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:56:23pm |
48 | Killgore Trout Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:57:11pm |
re: #46 bernielomax
lol what about by your standards?
I see them as different sorts of garbage but you can lump them together if you wish.
49 | bernielomax Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:57:11pm |
re: #44 Amory Blaine
i know, I dont think that is a "wingnut " statement
50 | blueraven Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:57:38pm |
re: #43 bernielomax
lol thats why I used the name, its a classic cheesey 80s movie
So are you going to stop with the ridiculous assertion that congress is exempt from ACA, now that you have seen two separate fact checking organizations say it is false?
51 | bernielomax Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:57:56pm |
re: #47 Amory Blaine
yes, dont get me wet or feed me after midnight
52 | Amory Blaine Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:58:08pm |
Congress being exempt is a favorite wingnut talking point.
53 | Charles Johnson Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:58:25pm |
re: #47 Amory Blaine
Can we keep'm paw? Can we??!!?
OK, for a little while. But you know how they are.
54 | bernielomax Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:59:49pm |
re: #50 blueraven
I asked a question about it. I didnt post it as a fact
55 | blueraven Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:00:27pm |
re: #54 bernielomax
I asked a question about it. I didnt post it as a fact
lol...you are just asking questions. Got it.
57 | Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:01:00pm |
58 | bernielomax Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:01:18pm |
re: #55 blueraven
well im glad you got it , because im not posting it as fact...
61 | Amory Blaine Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:03:28pm |
re: #54 bernielomax
I asked a question about it. I didnt post it as a fact
Your Question:
how come congress and judges are exempt from this wonderful O-care?
In the question you state as fact that Congress is exempt. The only question is "how come". If your fact is wrong, your question of it has no meaning.
62 | bernielomax Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:03:53pm |
Charles, thanks for allowing me to join lgf ... gnitte to all
63 | blueraven Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:04:28pm |
re: #58 bernielomax
well im glad you got it , because im not posting it as fact...
You are no fun at all, not very witty and not well informed.
64 | bernielomax Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:05:32pm |
re: #61 Amory Blaine
yes, you are right... I just meant to ask a question, but I now see your point about how it came off. believe me I feel better having known now
66 | Kronocide Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:08:01pm |
re: #41 bernielomax
omg , i was just posting a few times... I think both partys got issues. and I do think drudge is more center than msnbc. that makes me a wingnut?
Yep, that's just nuts. You're a wingnut.
67 | Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:09:32pm |
I hate 9/11 Twoofers sometimes. NIST released some errata to their WTC 7 report; and already the Twoofers are crowing that it validates their "NIST's conclusion is physically impossible" meme, when in reality, the errata explicitly states that the errors are only typographical and did not affect the actual calculations. Confirmation bias raised to an art form.
68 | goddamnedfrank Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:10:20pm |
re: #40 Killgore Trout
Ok, good info but was her access to insurance helped by Obamacare? I'm not seeing when the rules changed.
It appears that PCIP went into effect on July 1, 2010
Corroborated by the deadline listed in the CFDA data page on the program.
69 | bernielomax Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:11:30pm |
re: #63 blueraven
yea its hard to be fun and wity when your asking for info on legislation. not well informed? thats a quick judgement but on my knowlege of that topic I was not well informed........ thank god for Capt Hindsight
71 | bratwurst Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:12:03pm |
re: #62 bernielomax
Charles, thanks for allowing me to join lgf ... gnitte to all
Sleep tight...don't let The New Black Panthers bite.
74 | Killgore Trout Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:13:12pm |
re: #46 bernielomax
lol what about by your standards?
After reconsidering I think I'll give that a serious answer because it's something I've been thinking about lately. Drudge is a link whore and not much else. Glenn Beck isn't actually insane but he's learned to push the right buttons. Rush Limbaugh is similar. They are paid to say stupid shit to get stupid people to listen. MSNBC isn't that much different. Al Sharpton beleives what he says, but he's a moron. Chris Mathews is a moron but I'm not sure he believes what he says. Bashir, Lawrence O'Donnell, and the rest of them are just collecting paychecks. Their beliefs or intelligence are immaterial. Out of the whole cast of idiots I suspect Maddow and Hannity of being more intelligent, nuanced and interesting than their on air personalities allow. Their paychecks come from spewing partisan nonsense but I suspect them of being intelligent humans.
75 | Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:13:26pm |
76 | Gus Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:15:10pm |
re: #75 thedopefishlives
OOGA BOOGA.
I must prepare and be ready for them! I must also do a refresher on my rope knots and to give thanks to an inanimate and yet unknown but accepted object.
//
77 | Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:15:20pm |
re: #74 Killgore Trout
Killgore, I'm going to disagree with you on one thing. Glenn Beck may be borderline insane, but Rush Limbaugh is clearly on the other side of that line. Whether he was always that way or not, he has certainly jumped the shark since Obama's election.
78 | bratwurst Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:15:46pm |
re: #74 Killgore Trout
Out of the whole cast of idiots I suspect Maddow and Hannity of being more intelligent, nuanced and interesting than their on air personalities allow. Their paychecks come from spewing partisan nonsense but I suspect them of being intelligent humans.
Way to compare a high school graduate to a Rhodes Scholar.
79 | teresa Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:16:36pm |
re: #19 bernielomax
I know I shouldn't bother, but I am going let you in on a little secret, Obamacare is FEHBP for the nation. Sheesh, that is what Senators, congresspeople and federal employees already receive. In other words, more plainly, FEHBP is the model for PPACA.
*(FEHBP, Federal Employee Health Benefits Plan)
80 | bernielomax Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:16:55pm |
81 | bernielomax Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:17:32pm |
re: #74 Killgore Trout
great post , thanks for your opinion
82 | Killgore Trout Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:21:30pm |
re: #77 thedopefishlives
Killgore, I'm going to disagree with you on one thing. Glenn Beck may be borderline insane, but Rush Limbaugh is clearly on the other side of that line. Whether he was always that way or not, he has certainly jumped the shark since Obama's election.
I'll politely disagree. Radio guys have a lot of time to fill. Even Alex Jones doesn't really believe all the crap he says, he's just filling time between commercial breaks. Glenn Beck and Rush are pretty similar, they're just spewing red meat to the faithful between commercial breaks until their shift is over. If you were to magically view Beck and Limbaugh's portfolios they are invested in GM, Treasury bonds, Solar panel companies, windfarms, etc. They are just fleecing the flock. If they really believed what they are saying they would have fled the country with a suitcase of gold bars five years ago. They are paid in real dollars for long term contracts.
83 | blueraven Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:23:06pm |
re: #74 Killgore Trout
After reconsidering I think I'll give that a serious answer because it's something I've been thinking about lately. Drudge is a link whore and not much else. Glenn Beck isn't actually insane but he's learned to push the right buttons. Rush Limbaugh is similar. They are paid to say stupid shit to get stupid people to listen. MSNBC isn't that much different. Al Sharpton beleives what he says, but he's a moron. Chris Mathews is a moron but I'm not sure he believes what he says. Bashir, Lawrence O'Donnell, and the rest of them are just collecting paychecks. Their beliefs or intelligence are immaterial. Out of the whole cast of idiots I suspect Maddow and Hannity of being more intelligent, nuanced and interesting than their on air personalities allow. Their paychecks come from spewing partisan nonsense but I suspect them of being intelligent humans.
Seriously? Hannity who repeats the same inane and mostly debunked talking points every single day.
84 | Killgore Trout Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:23:39pm |
re: #83 blueraven
Seriously? Hannity who repeats the same inane and mostly debunked talking points every single day.
Yeah, that's the guy
85 | Kronocide Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:23:54pm |
re: #74 Killgore Trout
Out of the whole cast of idiots I suspect Maddow and Hannity of being more intelligent, nuanced and interesting than their on air personalities allow. Their paychecks come from spewing partisan nonsense but I suspect them of being intelligent humans.
Maddow spews partisan nonsense in a similar fashion/scale as Hannity?
Wow.
86 | Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:24:17pm |
re: #82 Killgore Trout
I think Rush is a difficult case to judge because he spews a lot of sarcastic crap along with some things that he genuinely believes. Separating the two is difficult at best, especially when he goes on one of his deliberate race- or sex-baiting ratings-booster rants.
88 | Kronocide Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:28:03pm |
It's a serous mistake to say these guys just say it for the money but don't really believe it.
No, they really believe the crap they say. Because they have a lot of time to fill, have big $ contracts to do what they've been doing, the ego is fully green lighted to be itself. They really believe their inane BS.
This is not something that can be faked or made up. They absolutely believe their nutty bullshit, all of it. They evangelize their world view and validate themselves not on the veracity or facts of what they say, but on their ratings. It's totally corrupt.
89 | blueraven Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:29:32pm |
re: #88 Kronocide
It's a serous mistake to say these guys just say it for the money but don't really believe it.
No, they really believe the crap they say. Because they have a lot of time to fill, have big $ contracts to do what they've been doing, the ego is fully green lighted to be itself. They really believe their inane BS.
This is not something that can be faked or made up. They absolutely believe their nutty bullshit, all of it. They evangelize their world view and validate themselves not on the veracity or facts of what they say, but on their ratings. It's totally corrupt.
I agree. And if they dont believe what they say, isn't that even worse?
90 | engineer cat Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:32:23pm |
does anybody know if rush is still suffering reduced ad revenues?
92 | Killgore Trout Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:35:30pm |
re: #86 thedopefishlives
I think Rush is a difficult case to judge because he spews a lot of sarcastic crap along with some things that he genuinely believes. Separating the two is difficult at best, especially when he goes on one of his deliberate race- or sex-baiting ratings-booster rants.
All of these people are hard to judge. They develop personas to collect paychecks, there's no telling what they really believe.
93 | bratwurst Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:37:09pm |
re: #90 engineer cat
does anybody know if rush is still suffering reduced ad revenues?
Judging by listening 20 minutes at a time a few times per week, I can tell you that there are still some PSAs running during the breaks.
Anyone interested in keeping the heat on is invited to drop a line to the nice people at Angie's List. I heard Rush do a live read for them on Thursday, so it is clearly not a case where they can feign ignorance over their association with America's most prominent misogynist.
94 | b_sharp Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:38:28pm |
re: #42 thedopefishlives
I sometimes find it therapeutic. This is why I hang out at JREF.
What's the best forum at JREF for arguments?
95 | Killgore Trout Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:38:36pm |
re: #88 Kronocide
It's a serous mistake to say these guys just say it for the money but don't really believe it.
No, they really believe the crap they say. Because they have a lot of time to fill, have big $ contracts to do what they've been doing, the ego is fully green lighted to be itself. They really believe their inane BS.
This is not something that can be faked or made up. They absolutely believe their nutty bullshit, all of it. They evangelize their world view and validate themselves not on the veracity or facts of what they say, but on their ratings. It's totally corrupt.
Give me a paycheck and I'll tell you what you want to hear. What do you want? Anti-Islam? Moonbat leftist? Ordinary Wingnut? It's not hard, fill my bank account and I'll hook you up.
96 | Achilles Tang Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:38:49pm |
re: #74 Killgore Trout
How about your opinion of yourself? Why leave it out?
Hannity equated with Maddow on intelligence!! You must be kidding.
97 | Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:39:18pm |
re: #94 b_sharp
What's the best forum at JREF for arguments?
Depends what you want to argue. I hang out in the Conspiracy Theories section; there's a sub-forum specific to 9/11, and the rest of it covers things like chemtrails, Holocaust denial, anti-vaxxers, just about anything you can name that has a conspiracy associated with it. There are other forums for science, religion, etc.
99 | engineer cat Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:39:46pm |
i find it hard to believe that rush believes in anything except that he's still pissed off at his father for calling him a dumb overweight loser
101 | Kronocide Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:40:50pm |
re: #98 Gus
We need to streamline the planning process.
You need to optimize your core competencies.
102 | Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:41:34pm |
103 | Killgore Trout Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:42:04pm |
re: #96 Achilles Tang
How about your opinion of yourself? Why leave it out?
I'm center left by American standards. A bit to the left of President Obama. I get no money from the shit I say so it's safe to rule out that as a motivating factor. This is it, no more, no less.
105 | Achilles Tang Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:43:19pm |
re: #97 thedopefishlives
Depends what you want to argue. I hang out in the Conspiracy Theories section; there's a sub-forum specific to 9/11, and the rest of it covers things like chemtrails, Holocaust denial, anti-vaxxers, just about anything you can name that has a conspiracy associated with it. There are other forums for science, religion, etc.
Seriously? The conspiracy section? Don't you get bored with people bringing up the melting point of steel, or UFO's, or whatever for the umpteenth time? I almost never went there when I was a regular.
The only original conspiracies worth considering are the ones relating to the politics of the day, and those are politics as usual, not really conspiracies as such.
107 | Killgore Trout Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:44:15pm |
re: #104 Kronocide
We need somebody who can keep all the plates spinning.
I can't hear you over the sounds of porcelain breaking. Check back later.
108 | Achilles Tang Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:45:53pm |
re: #94 b_sharp
What's the best forum at JREF for arguments?
The politics section. I haven't been for some time, but there are some radical left jerks there and the moderators can make it seem like kindergarten sometimes, so you can't call a spade a spade when called for.
110 | Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:47:00pm |
re: #105 Achilles Tang
Seriously? The conspiracy section? Don't you get bored with people bringing up the melting point of steel, or UFO's, or whatever for the umpteenth time? I almost never went there when I was a regular.
The only original conspiracies worth considering are the ones relating to the politics of the day, and those are politics as usual, not really conspiracies as such.
Honestly, I kinda filter out the repetitive trash. I actually mostly stick around because I love reading the posts by real experts: Ryan Mackey (master 9/11 debunker), Jay Windley (aerospace engineer and consummate moon-hoax debunker), and Nick Terry (co-author of a Holocaust paper with our own Sergey Romanov), just to name a few. There are a few occasions when some nutter brings a new argument, but mostly I only jump in when I'm really bored and in the mood for a punching bag.
111 | engineer cat Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:47:00pm |
re: #101 Kronocide
You need to optimize your core competencies.
right after i grow synergistic teams
113 | Dark_Falcon Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:47:51pm |
re: #43 bernielomax
lol thats why I used the name, its a classic cheesey 80s movie
Here's some music from 1989 to go with the movie:
And another:
115 | jaunte Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:49:56pm |
re: #101 Kronocide
You need to optimize your core competencies.
We'll maximize productive cross-disciplinary collaboration.
116 | Achilles Tang Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:50:08pm |
re: #110 thedopefishlives
There are a few occasions when some nutter brings a new argument, but mostly I only jump in when I'm really bored and in the mood for a punching bag.
Try WND if you want punching bags. It's a swarm.
You mention Sergey. I saw a reference to his absence recently. Has he been heard from?
117 | b_sharp Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:50:50pm |
re: #112 Gus
Crap. What the hell am I going to do without my worldwind advisor?
Advertise on twitter.
118 | Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:50:58pm |
re: #116 Achilles Tang
Try WND if you want punching bags. It's a swarm.
You mention Sergey. I saw a reference to his absence recently. Has he been heard from?
Yeah, but that kind of nuttery would likely only raise my blood pressure to unsafe levels.
120 | b_sharp Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:51:44pm |
re: #116 Achilles Tang
Try WND if you want punching bags. It's a swarm.
You mention Sergey. I saw a reference to his absence recently. Has he been heard from?
I second the question.
121 | Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:52:26pm |
122 | jaunte Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:53:02pm |
Mexican old guard leads, ruling party concedes
Presidential candidate Enrique Pena Nieto led Mexico's elections with about 40 percent of the vote, exit polls showed Sunday, signaling a return of his long-ruling party to power after a 12-year hiatus.
123 | Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:53:11pm |
124 | goddamnedfrank Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:55:14pm |
FYI:
Tks for all the #sparkles-Today marks the 1yr anniversary of my brain surgery where @Dr.Lawton & neuro-ICU at @UCSFHospitals saved my life!— erica chain (@ericachain) June 21, 2012
Since we've now shown that PCIP went into effect on July 1, 2010, there should be zero doubt that Erica's claims in the Obama ad are true.
125 | jaunte Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:00:58pm |
Report: Romney's family vacation is mandatory
...The Post says the family activities include competitive triathlons, football-throwing contests and challenges to see who can hang on a pole the longest.
There's either a Festivus joke or a bat joke in there somewhere.
126 | Killgore Trout Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:01:59pm |
Mark Twain: Corn-pone Opinions
"You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is."
127 | Killgore Trout Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:03:00pm |
1. It was his idea that a man conforms to the majority view of his locality by calculation and intention. This happens, but I think it is not the rule.
2. It was his idea that there is such a thing as a first-hand opinion; an original opinion; an opinion which is coldly reasoned out in a man's head, by a searching analysis of the facts involved, with the heart unconsulted, and the jury room closed against outside influences. It may be that such an opinion has been born somewhere, at some time or other, but I suppose it got away before they could catch it and stuff it and put it in the museum.
128 | Dark_Falcon Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:04:45pm |
re: #125 jaunte
Report: Romney's family vacation is mandatory
There's either a Festivus joke or a bat joke in there somewhere.
Eh, don't worry about it. Keeping a family together is hard work and mitt Romney seems to do a good job of it.
130 | jaunte Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:07:48pm |
re: #128 Dark_Falcon
I'll have to try the pole-hanging contest.
131 | Kragar Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:08:12pm |
re: #125 jaunte
Report: Romney's family vacation is mandatory
There's either a Festivus joke or a bat joke in there somewhere.
I'm picturing the seen from Soldier where the guys in Humvees are watching the kids run.
133 | Kragar Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:10:46pm |
135 | Mocking Jay Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:12:04pm |
Mississippi Abortion Law Temporarily Blocked By Federal Judge
Tyrants in black robes all up in this place.
136 | Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:12:29pm |
G'night Lizardim. See most of you in the morning hours.
138 | Dark_Falcon Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:14:38pm |
re: #133 Kragar
OK, the chain fight then.
Why would those scenes occur to you at all. Why not some family reunion comedy?
Mitt Romney's not some soulless monster, geez.
140 | Kragar Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:15:46pm |
re: #138 Dark_Falcon
Why would those scenes occur to you at all. Why not some family reunion comedy?
Mitt Romney's not some soulless monster, geez.
Sports are involved.
141 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:17:16pm |
re: #140 Kragar
Sports are involved.
Wait. The Romneys get competitive physically, and it's bad.
The Kennedys get competitive physically, and it's....what?
Sheesh.
And I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be disowned if they failed to show up.
142 | jaunte Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:18:21pm |
re: #141 Mostly sane, most of the time.
I don't think it's bad, I just think the image of the family competitively hanging from a pole is funny.
143 | Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:18:41pm |
My "Deep Thought" contribution for today:
In a sane and logical world wouldn't it be the men rather than the women who rode horses sidesaddle? (Think about it)
/
144 | Dark_Falcon Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:18:59pm |
re: #140 Kragar
Sports are involved.
Sports are involved when the Bush family gets together, and they were involved when the Kennedy brothers came together as well, to say nothing of Teddy Roosevelt and his very active family. All that means is that Mitt Romney is walking a path trod by a good number of men who have been elected president and its a good path for families with that many sons, too.
145 | Kragar Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:19:21pm |
re: #141 Mostly sane, most of the time.
Wait. The Romneys get competitive physically, and it's bad.
The Kennedys get competitive physically, and it's...what?
Still bad.
146 | blueraven Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:19:47pm |
re: #141 Mostly sane, most of the time.
Wait. The Romneys get competitive physically, and it's bad.
The Kennedys get competitive physically, and it's...what?
Sheesh.
And I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be disowned if they failed to show up.
Yes, I certainly dont see any problem with a family vacation.
The left shouldn't get all crazy and demonize every thing this guy does like the right does with Obama.
Come on, its a family vacation.
147 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:19:59pm |
re: #142 jaunte
I don't think it's bad, I just think the image of the family competitively hanging from a pole is funny.
My family engages in competitive chocolate eating. My older sister wins, usually.
148 | engineer cat Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:20:46pm |
[politician's families] get competative physically
tmi
149 | Kragar Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:20:56pm |
The idea of a triathlon for a family vacation sounds about as much fun as a hot pepper sauce enema.
150 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:21:07pm |
re: #146 blueraven
Yes, I certainly dont see any problem with a family vacation.
The left shouldn't get all crazy and demonize every thing this guy does like the right does with Obama.Come on, its a family vacation.
Look at the picture. Look at the place where they are forced to vacation. How could any reasonable person be expected to stay there, swim and boat in the lake, and talk to their relations.
It's inhuman, I tell you, just inhuman.
151 | Mocking Jay Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:21:56pm |
re: #149 Kragar
The idea of a triathlon for a family vacation sounds about as much fun as a hot pepper sauce enema.
Hey, you'll never know until you try.
Uh, the triathlon, I mean...
152 | engineer cat Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:22:03pm |
re: #149 Kragar
The idea of a triathlon for a family vacation sounds about as much fun as a hot pepper sauce enema.
some people's idea of vacations involve early rising and strenuous activity
mine do not
153 | blueraven Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:23:21pm |
re: #150 Mostly sane, most of the time.
Look at the picture. Look at the place where they are forced to vacation. How could any reasonable person be expected to stay there, swim and boat in the lake, and talk to their relations.
It's inhuman, I tell you, just inhuman.
Looks pretty nice! I would love to vaca with my family there!
Although to tell the truth we do very similar when we can, on a bit smaller scale.
154 | Mattand Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:23:59pm |
re: #123 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste
Room 12A.
[Embedded content]
I'm going to flex my comedy psychic powers and guess this video stars Michael Paline and John Clesse, with a cameo by Graham Chapman.
155 | SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:25:40pm |
re: #141 Mostly sane, most of the time.
Wait. The Romneys get competitive physically, and it's bad.
The Kennedys get competitive physically, and it's...what?
Sheesh.
And I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be disowned if they failed to show up.
I am just eternally grateful my family thinks drinking wine and cracking jokes is a sport.
156 | Dark_Falcon Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:25:50pm |
re: #149 Kragar
The idea of a triathlon for a family vacation sounds about as much fun as a hot pepper sauce enema.
Just don't say that to Mitt Romney. Because he's got enough money to find extreme pepper sauces, ones so hot they make the spoon's metal soften. And those would be the sauces used on you.
157 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:27:55pm |
re: #155 SanFranciscoZionist
I am just eternally grateful my family thinks drinking wine and cracking jokes is a sport.
Yeah, talking until way too late and eating too much food. Sounds good.
158 | Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:27:58pm |
re: #154 Mattand
I'm going to flex my comedy psychic powers and guess this video stars Michael Paline and John Clesse, with a cameo by Graham Chapman.
And you would be correct. Though the updated version would have US political radio in Room 12.
159 | Mocking Jay Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:30:01pm |
So I just stumbled across the "salt and ice challenge" and am now convinced that we are getting dumber as a species.
160 | Kragar Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:31:30pm |
re: #159 It's a cookbook!
So I just stumbled across the "salt and ice challenge" and am now convinced that we are getting dumber as a species.
Makes you want to eat a spoonful of cinnamon and get it all over with.
161 | Mattand Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:31:57pm |
re: #135 It's a cookbook!
Mississippi Abortion Law Temporarily Blocked By Federal Judge
Tyrants in black robes all up in this place.
Judge in question is Daniel Jordan. Appointed by W, no less.
Let me repeat that: a judge who was appointed by Bush 43 is blocking a restrictive abortion law.
Suck on it, wingnuts.
162 | Dark_Falcon Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:33:05pm |
re: #161 Mattand
Judge in question is Daniel Jordan. Appointed by W, no less.
Let me repeat that: a judge who was appointed by Bush 43 is blocking a restrictive abortion law.
Suck on it, wingnuts.
The law was so blatant that it could only be found in Mississippi.
163 | Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:34:33pm |
re: #161 Mattand
Judge in question is Daniel Jordan. Appointed by W, no less.
Let me repeat that: a judge who was appointed by Bush 43 is blocking a restrictive abortion law.
Suck on it, wingnuts.
That's another talking point I find distasteful. This immediate assumption by so many that an appointed judge is by default simply the idealogical lackey of the President/party that appointed him.
164 | Mattand Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:36:29pm |
re: #162 Dark_Falcon
The law was so blatant that it could only be found in Mississippi.
I cannot, for the life of me, figure out my fellow Americans sometimes. MS is the same state that rejected a personhood law that would have ended abortion right then and there. Yet the Governor pushes this clearly anti-Constitutional nonsense.
165 | palomino Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:37:10pm |
Healthcare in the US is really a pretty simple philosophical question when boiled down: do you think it's a right or a privilege, and does the govt have a role?
On one hand, we have the following countries who see it as a right, and proclaim a healthy citizenry as a national responsibility: Canada, Japan, S. Korea, most of Europe, Israel, Australia, New Zealand, etc.
On the other hand are countries like Mexico, Brazil, India, Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia (countries that either can't afford it or don't see their citizens as worthy). So we have a simple choice: do we want to be like the rest of the developed world, or do we want to be like Brazil, India and Iran, among many others?
166 | palomino Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:38:03pm |
re: #162 Dark_Falcon
The law was so blatant that it could only be found in Mississippi.
Have you bothered to look at similar laws in AL, TN, SC, TX, even MI?
167 | Mattand Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:38:53pm |
re: #163 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste
That's another talking point I find distasteful. This immediate assumption by so many that an appointed judge is by default simply the idealogical lackey of the President/party that appointed him.
Yeah, the judge clearly states in the article that precedent comes first. It does restore my faith that some of these guys are putting rule of law above party.
Although I have to admit I wonder what it was that Bush saw in this guy in the first place. W wasn't shy about being anti-abortion.
168 | Dark_Falcon Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:39:19pm |
re: #164 Mattand
I cannot, for the life of me, figure out my fellow Americans sometimes. MS is the same state that rejected a personhood law that would have ended abortion right then and there. Yet the Governor pushes this clearly anti-Constitutional nonsense.
This law was narrowly targeted at abortion, the personhood law would have had more far reaching consequences. Hence the difference
169 | Mattand Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:44:13pm |
re: #168 Dark_Falcon
This law was narrowly targeted at abortion, the personhood law would have had more far reaching consequences. Hence the difference
True, but I would imagine the MS GOP would be fine with said consequences. As long as Teh Babbys are being saved, I'm guessing they're okay with any collateral damage.
170 | Dark_Falcon Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:51:49pm |
re: #169 Mattand
True, but I would imagine the MS GOP would be fine with said consequences. As long as Teh Babbys are being saved, I'm guessing they're okay with any collateral damage.
The rank and file might have been, but the personhood law implications scared a number of conservative legal scholars who called attention to it's problems. They did this loudly enough to get the state's GOP elites to turn on the personhood law.
171 | Eclectic Infidel Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:52:37pm |
re: #162 Dark_Falcon
The law was so blatant that it could only be found in Mississippi.
Or maybe Kansas. :)
172 | sagehen Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:57:40pm |
173 | jaunte Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:03:08pm |
re: #172 sagehen
I don't know; it may be a sign that they're going back to the older, quieter corrupt system, and giving up the shooting war on the cartels.
174 | William Barnett-Lewis Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:05:44pm |
Been fighting with a 10 year old laptop all day. I got gifted an old Dell Lattitude C640. Decent enough machine for it's time - seriously needs more ram & a bigger disk but it's amazing how well FreeBSD & OpenLook can run on it once windows is wiped away. Even finally got a wireless PCCard working. Opera's not too bad though with only 256mb right now LGF just sends it thrashing :D Hopefully I can get a gig (max supported) or two (works unofficially). Supposedly I can drop in a faster Mobile P4 into it as well (1.8ghz now) though I'll do the ram & disk thing first.
And how was your day?
175 | darthstar Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:06:41pm |
I know, I know...probably not an actual fuck-up on Romney's part, but a fuck-up worth sharing in the off-chance it is.
#Romney poster misprint states the truth! #democrats #dems #GOPFail #@Obama2012 #veterans #AFLCIO twitter.com/SpaceCheef/sta...— Chris P Pickel (@SpaceCheef) July 2, 2012
176 | engineer cat Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:06:43pm |
personhood law
would have restricted bain from killing corporations, my friend
177 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:06:54pm |
re: #174 William Barnett-Lewis
Been fighting with a 10 year old laptop all day. I got gifted an old Dell Lattitude C640. Decent enough machine for it's time - seriously needs more ram & a bigger disk but it's amazing how well FreeBSD & OpenLook can run on it once windows is wiped away. Even finally got a wireless PCCard working. Opera's not too bad though with only 256mb right now LGF just sends it thrashing :D Hopefully I can get a gig (max supported) or two (works unofficially). Supposedly I can drop in a faster Mobile P4 into it as well (1.8ghz now) though I'll do the ram & disk thing first.
And how was your day?
A 10 year old laptop is probably easier to manage than a 2 year old human being.
178 | jaunte Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:07:59pm |
re: #175 darthstar
Someone faked it who doesn't know about letterspacing.
179 | engineer cat Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:08:53pm |
re: #174 William Barnett-Lewis
Been fighting with a 10 year old laptop all day. I got gifted an old Dell Lattitude C640. Decent enough machine for it's time - seriously needs more ram & a bigger disk but it's amazing how well FreeBSD & OpenLook can run on it once windows is wiped away. Even finally got a wireless PCCard working. Opera's not too bad though with only 256mb right now LGF just sends it thrashing :D Hopefully I can get a gig (max supported) or two (works unofficially). Supposedly I can drop in a faster Mobile P4 into it as well (1.8ghz now) though I'll do the ram & disk thing first.
And how was your day?
how did our softwares get so fat that they will thrash on "only" 256meg??
180 | Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:09:12pm |
So today I found out what I will be doing for the next month or so. I went to "brunch" with my sister and brother-in-law and knew when they invited me that something else had to be involved since the only real contact we have is on holidays and birthdays and such.
"So come back by the house and look at the upstairs bathroom, we think something might be wrong since we can see daylight thru the wall while sitting in the tub."
They were not kidding, the exterior sheathing is rotten, the studs are rotten, the wall sill is rotten, the flooring is rotten, and the floor joists are damaged but salvageable. Besides which they also have termites just to add insult to injury. I got as far as tearing out the drywall on three sides of the bathroom, disconnecting the tub overflow and drain, removing the rusted out tub, and then cutting off and putting new shut off valves on the hot and cold water lines that went to the tub fixture valve that I also tore out.
When I say the exterior wall is rotten I mean it already looks like someone blasted it with a shotgun, there is a 4"x6" hole under what used to be the left corner of the windowsill and multiple small holes underneath and to the sides. The wall studs are so rotted that you can grab fistfuls with your bare hand and tear them out with almost no effort.
So tomorrow morning bright and early I will be accompanying my brother-in-law to the city zoning and planning department and walking him through purchasing a "Home Owners" permit to gut and remodel his upstairs bathroom.
Well, at least it will give me something interesting to do, new plumbing, new tub, new exterior wall, new sheetrock and wonderboard, new tile, new flooring, new insulation, new bathroom window, etc, etc, etc...
Besides which I kinda like being given the chance to build it over from scratch, the layout sucks, the materials suck, the installation of the materials sucks, I be hard pressed not to wow them with pretty much anything I did as a major improvement even if I was asleep on my feet half the time.
Now if I wasn't "loaning" (yeah, right!) them the money to buy the materials and working for free then I suppose it would probably be even more fulfilling. But I guess maybe I just need to accept that all I'm going to get out of this job is a chance to hopefully create a really nice and also larger bathroom from the crap that was there to start with. That can work for me...
181 | darthstar Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:11:28pm |
re: #178 jaunte
Someone faked it who doesn't know about letterspacing.
It would still make a great T-shirt.
:)
182 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:11:44pm |
re: #180 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You
In my family my husband is "tech support" and my brother-in-law is "emergency medical help."
One time an uncle got confused, cornered my husband in the kitchen, and asked him to take a look at the sore on his foot.
He said, "well, if you want me to I could."
183 | darthstar Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:14:22pm |
Friend of mine had a tumor removed last week. Saw him today for the first time since his surgery. They opened his head from sideburn-to-sideburn. Holy fucking shit, and this is considered a routine procedure today...or at least one that isn't too complex. He's got a line of about sixty staples holding his skull together for the moment. We may not have the best health care in the world, but we do do some shit right.
184 | Mattand Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:15:23pm |
re: #182 Mostly sane, most of the time.
In my family my husband is "tech support" and my brother-in-law is "emergency medical help."
Tech support for the family, AKA "Please give me advice on my computer problem which will be ignored even thought I don't know jack shit about technology."
Kill me now.
185 | William Barnett-Lewis Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:15:49pm |
re: #179 engineer cat
how did our softwares get so fat that they will thrash on "only" 256meg??
I wish I knew. I remember going from 32mb to 128mb on a dual CPU AVIION database & X Terminal server and thinking that was luxurious. Ingres was a speed demon on that machine.
Though I was surprised at the behavior when I tried LGF. I logged in clicked on the link to come to the comments in this thread and kabloom. xload spikes, the disk goes nuts and Opera locked up tight as a drum.
186 | Mattand Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:15:51pm |
re: #183 darthstar
Friend of mine had a tumor removed last week. Saw him today for the first time since his surgery. They opened his head from sideburn-to-sideburn. Holy fucking shit, and this is considered a routine procedure today...or at least one that isn't too complex. He's got a line of about sixty staples holding his skull together for the moment. We may not have the best health care in the world, but we do do some shit right.
Oy. Glad he's okay.
187 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:17:23pm |
re: #184 Mattand
Tech support for the family, AKA "Please give me advice on my computer problem which will be ignored even thought I don't know jack shit about technology."
Kill me now.
He fixed my parents' computer a couple of times, then told them that if they wouldn't stop my then-teenage brother from downloading pirated stuff and random files, he was done.
188 | Eclectic Infidel Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:17:36pm |
Well, the fireworks (illegal) are already beginning here in Oakland. I won't be around on the 4th but no matter, the sound show will last well into the the dead of night if this year is anything like last year.
189 | Charles Johnson Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:19:06pm |
Wondering if I should deal with the obvious troll now, or wait for it to be even more obnoxious.
190 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:19:20pm |
re: #188 Eclectic Infidel
Well, the fireworks (illegal) are already beginning here in Oakland. I won't be around on the 4th but no matter, the sound show will last well into the the dead of night if this year is anything like last year.
My sister lives in a redneck town. (The one with the doctor for a husband.)
"Illegal fireworks" in their town means TNT. Not kidding.
191 | darthstar Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:22:52pm |
re: #187 Mostly sane, most of the time.
He fixed my parents' computer a couple of times, then told them that if they wouldn't stop my then-teenage brother from downloading pirated stuff and random files, he was done.
Now when I help friends and family "fix" their computers, I install MalwareBytes, set them a reminder to run it once a month, and change their permissions so they can't automatically download stupid shit. I figure I can help them get past the security if there's an app they actually might need.
192 | CarleeCork Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:23:20pm |
re: #99 engineer cat
i find it hard to believe that rush believes in anything except that he's still pissed off at his father for calling him a dumb overweight loser
That is a definite oxymoron.
193 | Mattand Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:24:10pm |
re: #189 Charles Johnson
Wondering if I should deal with the obvious troll now, or wait fot it to be even more obnoxious.
You referring to bernielomax from earlier?
195 | Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:25:36pm |
re: #173 jaunte
I don't know; it may be a sign that they're going back to the older, quieter corrupt system, and giving up the shooting war on the cartels.
Is that the kind of thing you can get back into the bottle? I'm not so sure.
197 | darthstar Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:26:30pm |
re: #179 engineer cat
how did our softwares get so fat that they will thrash on "only" 256meg??
Funny, isn't it? I run 4 gigs of RAM on my laptop (and I'm not even a developer anymore) and my employees run 12-16 gigs on their desktops...and they want more. For parallel analysis, they actually need it.
198 | jaunte Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:26:53pm |
re: #195 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste
And just two minutes ago this came across Twitter:
Armando Montano, an aspiring journalist who was working this summer as a news intern for The Associated Press in the Mexican capital, was found dead early Saturday. He was 22 years old.
Montano’s body was found in the elevator shaft of an apartment building near where he was living in the capital’s Condesa neighborhood. The circumstances of his death were being investigated by Mexican authorities.
[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]
199 | Mattand Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:27:18pm |
re: #194 Charles Johnson
How did you guess?
The "Congress is exempt from Obamacare/I'm just asking questions" exchange and the inability to spell helped.
200 | engineer cat Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:28:25pm |
re: #188 Eclectic Infidel
Well, the fireworks (illegal) are already beginning here in Oakland. I won't be around on the 4th but no matter, the sound show will last well into the the dead of night if this year is anything like last year.
yo, oaksterdam!
201 | Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:28:45pm |
re: #189 Charles Johnson
Wondering if I should deal with the obvious troll now, or wait for it to be even more obnoxious.
Your not going to give us a chance to have any fun first? :(
202 | darthstar Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:32:29pm |
re: #201 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You
You know what's more fun than engaging with trolls? Better yet, can you name one thing that isn't?
203 | Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:33:20pm |
Sunday Drive-by Funny and Cuteness.
Have a great evening all!
205 | darthstar Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:35:00pm |
Hm...bed sounds like a good idea. Wait for me!
Laterz.
206 | engineer cat Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:35:46pm |
re: #199 Mattand
The "Congress is exempt from Obamacare/I'm just asking questions" exchange and the inability to spell helped.
concern troll is concerned?
207 | Mattand Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:41:16pm |
re: #206 engineer cat
concern troll is concerned?
And in desperate need of remedial English. Although, in all fairness, I need to be careful about criticizing spelling. I made a reference to Monty Python's Michael "Paline" earlier.
I'm thinking bernie wandered in from Brietbart.com, though.
208 | freetoken Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:45:59pm |
This one threw me for a loop:
Anthropologist: Turkish Muslimhood replacing Islamism
[Q:] In your book “Muslim Nationalism and the New Turks,” which will come out in November, do you deal with issues related to Turkey's national identity and if the identity has been redefined?
[A:] Yes, in fact, the whole book is about that. Kemalism was very much based on race, blood and lineage -- you hear the word “soy” [lineage] used all the time. A year or so ago, a minister spoke at a university to a group of scientists to encourage them to improve the standard of Turkish science. In his speech, he said that this was important so that we can be aware of dangers like importing tomato seeds from Israel -- if you grow tomatoes from these seed and people eat them, it could negatively affect Turks' genetic lineage. This statement led to an explanation by the minister of agriculture that Turkey imports only 4 percent of its tomato seeds from Israel. Another example is that during the 1999 earthquake, one of the ministers rejected blood donations from Greece because he did not want to mix blood. This relates also to liberals who can be perceived as mixing everything and having no boundaries. They have no single group that they belong to. That's one reason why liberals are not so powerful. Who listens to the liberals here? The power is in the hands of people who have groups and who know where the boundaries are and are ready to defend them.
The author being interviewed doesn't say that she agrees with the claim over tomato seeds, but the answer is quite ambiguous.
On another topic she seems a bit more clear:
[Q:] What's been happening to women in Turkey? You touched on the topic of how they were disregarded after the AK Party's election.
[A:] People are still uncomfortable using the word “kadın” (woman) even though Parliament has just changed the names for restrooms from “hanım” (lady) to “kadın.” We did the same thing in the 1960s and the '70s in the United States. Until then we had ladies' toilets, not women's toilets. The idea was to disentangle women from their social context and make them individuals. If you are defined as a member of a group, whether this group is your family, “aşiret” (clan), community or nation, those groups define who you are and claim ownership of women's bodies. Even the state gets involved; Turkey used to have forced virginity tests. Why would the state be interested in that? The state is the mirror image of an authoritarian and patriarchal society.
209 | engineer cat Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:46:26pm |
Ingres
i called up this company once but it seems that nobody there had heard of the french neoclassical painter of the same name
huh
210 | Varek Raith Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:47:52pm |
re: #19 bernielomax
how come congress and judges are exempt from this wonderful O-care? Please tell me im misinformed so ill feel a lil better about this, i mean the way it was passed was ridiculous
A far better question to ask is why congress gave me a tax credit to build the laser that will destroy your planet.
211 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:49:03pm |
re: #210 Varek Raith
A far better question to ask is why congress gave me a tax credit to build the laser that will destroy your planet.
Because you had a cool outfit and a catchy phrase.
212 | Mocking Jay Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:49:33pm |
re: #210 Varek Raith
A far better question to ask is why congress gave me a tax credit to build the laser that will destroy your planet.
I'm guessing no-bid contract.
213 | Decatur Deb Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:49:41pm |
'Morning, all.
If anyone is in the S Georgia/S. Alabama area, we have some nasty storms moving in from the east.
214 | engineer cat Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:49:45pm |
the way it was passed was ridiculous
heard fox say it might be passed on "reconciliation" so many times he believes that that's what happened
doesn't know what "reconciliation" is anyway
doesn't care
215 | SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:51:43pm |
re: #183 darthstar
Friend of mine had a tumor removed last week. Saw him today for the first time since his surgery. They opened his head from sideburn-to-sideburn. Holy fucking shit, and this is considered a routine procedure today...or at least one that isn't too complex. He's got a line of about sixty staples holding his skull together for the moment. We may not have the best health care in the world, but we do do some shit right.
We know how to do shit. The challenge now is to get shit done for everyone who needs that shit.
216 | Decatur Deb Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:52:32pm |
re: #209 engineer cat
Ingres
i called up this company once but it seems that nobody there had heard of the french neoclassical painter of the same name
huh
First database I ever worked, on a Sun Micro-vax.
217 | blueraven Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:54:00pm |
re: #213 Decatur Deb
'Morning, all.
If anyone is in the S Georgia/S. Alabama area, we have some nasty storms moving in from the east.
My family is back that way. Savannah. I better check it out.
Stay safe!
218 | Varek Raith Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:55:53pm |
219 | freetoken Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:57:17pm |
220 | Varek Raith Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:57:54pm |
re: #219 freetoken
"With the ... Fortran language the computer will be easy to use."
Hah!
Totally easy to use.
221 | Decatur Deb Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:58:19pm |
re: #218 Varek Raith
One of my teachers told us he had been to a lab and seen 'integrated circuits', and that some day computers would be as small as a Bell desk telephone. Then we went back to punching paper tape.
222 | Mocking Jay Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:58:56pm |
re: #218 Varek Raith
I would trade six gigs of ram and two cores off my processor if only my PC could have a steering wheel like that.
223 | Mocking Jay Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:59:27pm |
re: #219 freetoken
"With the ... Fortran language the computer will be easy to use."
Hah!
I think they severely overestimated 21st century Americans.
224 | freetoken Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:59:35pm |
PZed launches an attack on the abysmal state of American television:
Oh, it’s another crappy television show put on by a purported science-positive network that I completely missed. National Geographic ran a show called “Chasing UFOs” on Friday, and since about the only television I ever watch any more is commercial-free movies on Netflix, I wasn’t tuned in. Fortunately, Robert Sheaffer did, and found it “lurid and sensational”.
[...]
Great. The ghosthunter tactic. I guess people tune in to these things, so it must be effective television for some segment of the population, but every time I’ve seen these horrible green screen/night vision videos with everyone running around with a camera on a boom pointed at their face, I think it’s television for people who want to laugh at how stupid and gullible other people are.
Now why would National Geographic want to sully their good name with this tripe? Here’s a clue: they did a survey. 77% of Americans believe that there is evidence that aliens have visited the Earth, and 36% are sure that they have; 79% of Americans believe the X-Files was a documentary, and that the government has been covering up the Truth about the aliens.
Another nugget of information: Rupert Murdoch owns a 2/3 stake of the National Geographic Channel. Much is explained.
[...]
225 | Varek Raith Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:59:39pm |
re: #222 It's a cookbook!
I would trade six gigs of ram and two cores off my processor if only my PC could have a steering wheel like that.
Yeah...What is the wheel for anyways???
XD
226 | freetoken Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:59:57pm |
re: #223 It's a cookbook!
I think they severely overestimated 21st century Americans.
See my immediately preceding post.
227 | engineer cat Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:00:15pm |
228 | Mostly sane, most of the time. Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:01:09pm |
re: #227 engineer cat
what the hell is the ocean liner style steering wheel for???
Early game controller?
229 | goddamnedfrank Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:01:15pm |
Here's a little PCIP flashback, similar to the Erica Chain Obama ad in Charles's #1:
I want to apologize to President Obama. But first, some background.
I found out three weeks ago I have cancer.
...
Fortunately for me, I've been saved by the federal government's Pre-existing Condition Insurance Plan, something I had never heard of before needing it. It's part of President Obama's healthcare plan, one of the things that has already kicked in, and it guarantees access to insurance for U.S. citizens with preexisting conditions who have been uninsured for at least six months. The application was short, the premiums are affordable, and I have found the people who work in the administration office to be quite compassionate (nothing like the people I have dealt with over the years at other insurance companies.) It's not perfect, of course, and it still leaves many people in need out in the cold. But it's a start, and for me it's been a lifesaver — perhaps literally.
Which brings me to my apology. I was pretty mad at Obama before I learned about this new insurance plan. I had changed my registration from Democrat to Independent, and I had blacked out the top of the "h" on my Obama bumper sticker, so that it read, "Got nope" instead of "got hope." I felt like he had let down the struggling middle class. My son and I had campaigned for him, but since he took office, we felt he had let us down.
So this is my public apology. I'm sorry I didn't do enough of my own research to find out what promises the president has made good on. I'm sorry I didn't realize that he really has stood up for me and my family, and for so many others like us. I'm getting a new bumper sticker to cover the one that says "Got nope." It will say "ObamaCares."
230 | Decatur Deb Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:01:20pm |
re: #225 Varek Raith
Yeah...What is the wheel for anyways???
XD
Manual assist to spin up the concrete-filled mass-storage drum. (They really existed.)
231 | Decatur Deb Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:03:13pm |
re: #230 Decatur Deb
Manual assist to spin up the concrete-filled mass-storage drum. (They really existed.)
Here:
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
The bit about manual assist was the joke.
232 | MittDoesNotCompute Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:03:20pm |
re: #219 freetoken
"With the ... Fortran language the computer will be easy to use."
Hah!
Believe it or not, Fortran's still being used and updated; the latest version is Fortran 2008 (approved in 2010).
233 | Kragar Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:04:50pm |
234 | engineer cat Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:05:34pm |
re: #219 freetoken
"With the ... Fortran language the computer will be easy to use."
Hah!
you don't understand the eeevil plan
first lolcat, pretty soon whatever the teenagers say will sound just like fortran ennyway
235 | freetoken Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:05:53pm |
re: #232 SunshineSuperman
Believe it or not, Fortran's still being used and updated; the latest version is Fortran 2008 (approved in 2010).
And 77% of Americans believe there is evidence that Aliens have landed on Earth.
236 | Kragar Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:06:43pm |
re: #235 freetoken
And 77% of Americans believe there is evidence that Aliens have landed on Earth.
How else do you explain Trafficant's or Trump's hair?
237 | Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:06:44pm |
re: #227 engineer cat
what the hell is the ocean liner style steering wheel for???
Interrupted screw cover plate for the floppy drive! ;)
238 | Mocking Jay Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:07:03pm |
239 | Eclectic Infidel Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:07:42pm |
240 | Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:07:58pm |
re: #232 SunshineSuperman
Believe it or not, Fortran's still being used and updated; the latest version is Fortran 2008 (approved in 2010).
I'm still waiting for Visual COBOL dammit! ;)
241 | MittDoesNotCompute Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:09:25pm |
re: #235 freetoken
And 77% of Americans believe there is evidence that Aliens have landed on Earth.
I'm not so concerned about that; rather, I'd be more concerned with the percentage of Americans that say that they've been abducted by ETs and probed.
Image: im-not-saying-its-aliens.jpg
///
242 | engineer cat Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:10:10pm |
re: #240 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste
I'm still waiting for Visual COBOL dammit! ;)
243 | freetoken Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:10:40pm |
Newest headline at WND's top of page scrolling slideshow:
BLACK MOBS NOW BEATING JEWS IN NEW YORK
Hmmmm....
244 | Mocking Jay Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:11:17pm |
re: #243 freetoken
Newest headline at WND's top of page scrolling slideshow:
Hmmm...
Consider me skeptical.
245 | Varek Raith Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:11:39pm |
246 | engineer cat Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:12:37pm |
247 | goddamnedfrank Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:13:47pm |
Washington State PCIP Stories:
Dusty ‐ Thurston County
Dusty is a 28 year old with lymphoma. When he was 25 he started his own business. In order to save money he chose not to purchase health care insurance ‐ like others of his age, he felt he could take the risk. Six months later he was diagnosed with stage 4a lymphoma. He received treatment and owes over $200,000 in medical bills. He had not been to the doctor in months because he could not afford any treatment that may be recommended and did not want to add to his debt. With the help of PCIP‐WA he is seeing a doctor and receiving the care that he needs. “I’ll be passing my 3‐year remission in July this year,” Dusty said. “The Pre‐existing Condition Insurance Plan lets me get all of my tests and everything is showing that I’m still clear. Life is going really well! My partner and I are expecting a baby in August and we’re excited.”
I hope the Obama campaign keeps working overtime to publicize these stories. There's probably enough of them out there to cut a new ad every day between now and election day.
248 | freetoken Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:16:14pm |
Good grief, that WND article is written by none other Colin Flaherty, a somewhat successful writer who happens to a favorite of the sundry list of unsavory types.
249 | MittDoesNotCompute Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:20:24pm |
re: #247 goddamnedfrank
Washington State PCIP Stories:
I hope the Obama campaign keeps working overtime to publicize these stories. There's probably enough of them out there to cut a new ad every day between now and election day.
And if some "conservatives" had/have their way, people like Dusty would die without the treatment they need and those "conservatives" would not care one fucking bit.
Mean people fucking suck ass.
250 | goddamnedfrank Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:25:30pm |
re: #247 goddamnedfrank
This one really gets me:
Lori – Kitsap County
Lori was diagnosed about 5 yrs ago with Secondary Sjogren's an autoimmune disease that caused autoimmune pancreatitis (which led to Type 2 Diabetes), Hashimoto's (thyroid) syndrome and rheumatoid arthritis, among other things. She is unable to work and at times the pain and/or fatigue is crippling.Several years ago, she was dropped from her medical insurance due to a billing snafu. While she was able to find insurance for the husband and three sons, she was unable to find affordable coverage for herself. Because they have two boys in college they could not afford the tests, medications and treatments that Lori needed.
After a couple years of trying to find insurance, Lori told her husband she wanted a divorce. She was concerned that if something catastrophic happened to her medically, their house to be taken from him and their children. While her husband refused to let her divorce him, Lori still worried about their future.
Lori learned about the Pre‐existing Condition Insurance Plan – Washington when researching health care options for her family on the internet. She applied and was accepted in June. “When I opened the package, I cried. I knew it was weighing heavy on me, but I didn't realize how heavy until I opened the package.” Lori said. “PCIP‐WA has saved my marriage and given me tremendous peace of mind. I am very grateful”
251 | freetoken Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:26:01pm |
That WND story has been up for 7 hours and has gathered 638 comments... and in case you couldn't guess the tenor, here are some examples:
Dan
Wake up people, this is just the beginning. America is too far gone, obama was the last straw, Holder, the top law man says ignore all minority crimes, just look the other way. Black Panthers at poling stations......WTF. Nobody did a thing, that gives the blacks a green light to attack Jews, whites or anyone else they feel like. The press and news media won't report anything that casts a negative tone on blacks. Get out on any large city on urban area, you're not safe and not allowed to protect yourself or your family. If you fight back you"re the one that gets charged with a crime. Keep your powder dry boys, big time trouble is coming, and soon. Race war, class warfare, civil war by Nov so the usurper in the white house can suspend the election.
---
WVF
I'm sick and tired of Blacks being out of control, because BHO, Imposter in Chief, is in the White House. It's time for all Caucasions, including Jews, to wipe these lawbreakers off the face of the Earth. If any of them ever screw with me, they are going to get the worst lead poisoning in the history of mankind!
---
And so on.
WND and the right wing nuts are so out in the open now. All or Romney's horses and all of Romney's men won't be able to put them back in their caves.
252 | Mocking Jay Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:27:38pm |
re: #251 freetoken
That WND story has been up for 7 hours and has gathered 638 comments... and in case you couldn't guess the tenor, here are some examples:
---
---
And so on.
WND and the right wing nuts are so out in the open now. All or Romney's horses and all of Romney's men won't be able to put them back in their caves.
Well, they'll quiet down a bit if he wins. If Obama wins a second term, it's on like Donkey Kong.
253 | Decatur Deb Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:30:57pm |
re: #252 It's a cookbook!
Well, they'll quiet down a bit if he wins. If Obama wins a second term, it's on like Donkey Kong.
Maybe not, if the crazy is being manipulated at significant cost. If they get stomped in Nov, the backers of the astroturf effort will probably look for a more effective tack.
254 | aagcobb Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:31:44pm |
255 | Mocking Jay Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:34:13pm |
re: #254 aagcobb
Yeah! What we need is some kind of system that makes these freeloaders pay for their healthcare like the rest of us!
Oh wait...
256 | palomino Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:34:59pm |
re: #196 CarleeCork
Check out healthcare in Israel.
Sounds pretty good...4th highest life expectancy in the world.
Weird thing is that a lot of American conservatives would tell you that Israel, Canada, Australia, etc. are great places with advanced democracies, but if we were to adopt their healthcare systems it would ruin America (and somehow make us far worse than those countries).
257 | aagcobb Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:36:34pm |
re: #256 palomino
Sounds pretty good...4th highest life expectancy in the world.
Weird thing is that a lot of American conservatives would tell you that Israel, Canada, Australia, etc. are great places with advanced democracies, but if we were to adopt their healthcare systems it would ruin America (and somehow make us far worse than those countries).
Excepting Israel, I think most wingnuts believe all our allies are Marxist dictatorships, if you believe their rhetoric.
258 | MittDoesNotCompute Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:37:39pm |
re: #257 aagcobb
Excepting Israel, I think most wingnuts believe all our allies are Marxist dictatorships, if you believe their rhetoric.
Da, comrade...
259 | Kragar Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:37:48pm |
re: #253 Decatur Deb
Maybe not, if the crazy is being manipulated at significant cost. If they get stomped in Nov, the backers of the astroturf effort will probably look for a more effective tack.
Like emigration?
260 | Mocking Jay Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:40:00pm |
261 | Kragar Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:41:09pm |
re: #260 It's a cookbook!
I believe we call that "self-deportation" now.
AKA "I'm taking my ball and leaving!"
262 | Decatur Deb Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:43:31pm |
re: #259 Kragar
Like emigration?
Dunno, and I doubt they have any new thinkers among them. I'd expect the money to try to get back to a Goldwater/Rockefeller respectability and the nuts to group around Rand Paul.
263 | palomino Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:47:11pm |
re: #257 aagcobb
Excepting Israel, I think most wingnuts believe all our allies are Marxist dictatorships, if you believe their rhetoric.
Yes, so many Americans are completely ignorant of the rest of the world, it's truly sad. It's the flip side of American exceptionalism--we don't need to pay attention to the rest of the world because "We're no. 1, we're no. 1, fuck yeah!"
The idea that Canada or Australia are hotbeds of radicalism is absurd. They merely have a shared cultural value that a healthy populace is a valuable public good. We aren't there yet.
265 | palomino Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:59:11pm |
re: #264 CarleeCork
Would be great if someone had the balls to say something like that. Of course they'd get fired the next day by any media outlet close to mainstream. Failing to mindlessly scream "We're no. 1" is a hanging offense.
267 | CarleeCork Sun, Jul 1, 2012 11:03:42pm |
re: #265 palomino
Would be great if someone had the balls to say something like that. Of course they'd get fired the next day by any media outlet close to mainstream. Failing to mindlessly scream "We're no. 1" is a hanging offense.
But.....is it true?
269 | Decatur Deb Sun, Jul 1, 2012 11:15:18pm |
re: #267 CarleeCork
But...is it true?
I think it's true that we are still number 1 in the most important characteristic--cultural agility. I don't see any other nation of significant size and power that has the ability to spin on a dime and adapt to a radically changing global environment. That's a quality that the conservatives would grind out of us.
270 | goddamnedfrank Sun, Jul 1, 2012 11:15:24pm |
re: #257 aagcobb
Excepting Israel, I think most wingnuts believe all our allies are Marxist dictatorships, if you believe their rhetoric.
And they write off Israel's single payer universal healthcare as only being possible because of their supposed ethnic/cultural homogeneity, with a straight face.
Even if the people who say that believe it's true (it's not, Israel has a lot of ethnic and cultural diversity) I wonder if they realize what a horrible thing that is to say? It basically implies that their real motive for opposing single payer universal healthcare is that they simply don't want society to help people who look different than they do / come from different cultures (which is true.)
271 | AK-47% Sun, Jul 1, 2012 11:18:37pm |
re: #270 goddamnedfrank
And they write off Israel's single payer universal healthcare as only being possible because of their supposed ethnic/cultural homogeneity, with a straight face.
I have heard the argument advanced for ages that socialism only works in countries with small, racially & ethnically homogenous populations, like in Scandinavia.
I ws never really clear about what lies behind this sort of thinking.
272 | CarleeCork Sun, Jul 1, 2012 11:19:24pm |
re: #271 Expand Your Ground
I have heard the argument advanced for ages that socialism only works in countries with small, racially & ethnically homogenous populations, like in Scandinavia.
I ws never really clear about what lies behind this sort of thinking.
Lack of thinking?
273 | Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Sun, Jul 1, 2012 11:20:37pm |
re: #270 goddamnedfrank
And they write off Israel's single payer universal healthcare as only being possible because of their supposed ethnic/cultural homogeneity, with a straight face.
Even if the people who say that believe it's true (it's not, Israel has a lot of ethnic and cultural diversity) I wonder if they realize what a horrible thing that is to say? It basically implies that their real motive for opposing single payer universal healthcare is that they simply don't want society to help people who look different than they do / come from different cultures (which is true.)
That last part has been an interesting moving target during US history. The inclusiveness has varied as various other cultural groups have turned up, grown in number, or other pressures have forced adjustments in how they are treated. Along with the political adjustments on whether a particular group should be demonized as part of the threatening "other" or brought into the tent as part of the defenders of all that is right and holy.
274 | goddamnedfrank Sun, Jul 1, 2012 11:22:42pm |
re: #271 Expand Your Ground
I have heard the argument advanced for ages that socialism only works in countries with small, racially & ethnically homogenous populations, like in Scandinavia.
I ws never really clear about what lies behind this sort of thinking.
Racism, presented at "racial realism." Basically they're trying to say that it's society that's intrinsically racist, not them, but I'm not buying it.
275 | Kronocide Sun, Jul 1, 2012 11:23:17pm |
re: #248 freetoken
Good grief, that WND article is written by none other Colin Flaherty, a somewhat successful writer who happens to a favorite of the sundry list of unsavory types.
Racial violence is back: “The first book to tell the real story about the return of black on white crime.”
That whole Real Truth thingy again. It must be true if it says so.
276 | palomino Sun, Jul 1, 2012 11:23:49pm |
re: #267 CarleeCork
But...is it true?
To some extent, but when he puts the blame on this generation of Americans specifically he starts to get nostalgic about the good old days, and then the rest is a big "Back in my day..." cliche.
Statistically, yes, we're no. 1 in only a few areas, some dubious like incarceration rate and religiosity over science.
277 | engineer cat Sun, Jul 1, 2012 11:25:04pm |
re: #271 Expand Your Ground
I have heard the argument advanced for ages that socialism only works in countries with small, racially & ethnically homogenous populations, like in Scandinavia.
I ws never really clear about what lies behind this sort of thinking.
just plain old garden variety racism that speaks in code
278 | Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Sun, Jul 1, 2012 11:25:58pm |
re: #276 palomino
To some extent, but when he puts the blame on this generation of Americans specifically he starts to get nostalgic about the good old days, and then the rest is a big "Back in my day..." cliche.
Statistically, yes, we're no. 1 in only a few areas, some dubious like incarceration rate and religiosity over science.
"Young whippersnappers don't listen to their elders, play that awful rock music, refuse to burn crosses, and... hey you! Get off my lawn!"
279 | Decatur Deb Sun, Jul 1, 2012 11:29:04pm |
Weird weather--the front has blasted through with a lot of rain, but the temperature is still 72 degrees. The alarm radio is quiet, so 'nite once again.
280 | goddamnedfrank Sun, Jul 1, 2012 11:29:41pm |
re: #276 palomino
To some extent, but when he puts the blame on this generation of Americans specifically he starts to get nostalgic about the good old days, and then the rest is a big "Back in my day..." cliche.
Not to mention that voting trends put a lot more of the blame on his generation, the baby boomers. You don't see the current generation of young adults supporting drug war incarcerations, supporting education cuts after benefiting from heavily subsidized colleges, or trying to gut social security and medicare for even younger generations. That's all baby boomers and older who are trying to pull the ladder up behind them.
281 | Decatur Deb Sun, Jul 1, 2012 11:30:37pm |
re: #280 goddamnedfrank
Not to mention that voting trends put a lot more of the blame on his generation, the baby boomers. You don't see the current generation of young adults supporting drug war incarcerations, supporting education cuts after benefiting from heavily subsidized colleges, or trying to gut social security and medicare for even younger generations. That's all baby boomers and older who are trying to pull the ladder up behind them.
Ahem. Agist punk.
282 | goddamnedfrank Sun, Jul 1, 2012 11:35:24pm |
283 | AK-47% Sun, Jul 1, 2012 11:36:13pm |
I admire America's spirit of rugged individualism, of self-reliance and personal responsibility.
But why does this translate into the notion that individuals should be compelled to negotiate on an "equal" basis with multi-billion-dollar, multinational corporations for terms of employment or health insurance?
284 | Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Sun, Jul 1, 2012 11:42:35pm |
re: #280 goddamnedfrank
Not to mention that voting trends put a lot more of the blame on his generation, the baby boomers. You don't see the current generation of young adults supporting drug war incarcerations, supporting education cuts after benefiting from heavily subsidized colleges, or trying to gut social security and medicare for even younger generations. That's all baby boomers and older who are trying to pull the ladder up behind them.
I see a couple of factors involved in this. Drawing mainly from what I know about a few acquaintances who are whining heavily on Facebook right now. Oh, they're late-30s or early-40s white males with a few children and college degrees.
1. Upbringing draws heavily from parents and culture growing up in. In my sample cases this is conservative and rural parts of western PA.
2. Young and coming of age in a period of cultural disruption and what was also the end of the myth of the American Dream. The American cultural environment also turned heavily into a theme of government and authority being corrupt and grasping by default.*
3. Increasing complexity of society and challenge of norms leading to challenges to their normal superior position in the social hierarchy. And from there they bought into the "culture war" memes and continue to seek reinforcement that they chose correctly here.
4. In both cases they had some tough times in their early-20s with college, job, and young children at that time. I think that has been converted into "I pulled myself through, why can't everyone else?" without realizing that not everyone else had the family and friends that helped them out.
* - My pet example of this is the two versions of "The Longest Yard". Both revolve heavily around challenging corrupt authority. But in the first one an exterior authority (the referees for the football game) are portrayed as honest and doing the job while they are portrayed as corrupt by default in the re-make.
285 | AK-47% Sun, Jul 1, 2012 11:48:32pm |
re: #284 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste
"I pulled myself through, why can't everyone else?" without realizing that not everyone else had the family and friends that helped them out.
"I've been on welfare and food stamps...did anyone help me?"
Remember that famous Craig T. Nelson rant on Beck?
286 | goddamnedfrank Sun, Jul 1, 2012 11:53:46pm |
WASHINGTON -- Mary Duffy said she was terrified the Supreme Court would strike down health-care reform.The 62-year-old small-business owner in Redwood City, Calif., has had insurance since 2010 thanks to the Affordable Care Act's small health plan for people with pre-existing conditions. Duffy, a three-time breast cancer survivor, lost her insurance after she lost her job in 2008. (HuffPost has followed Duffy on her quest for insurance since 2009.)
"I was looking at $1,080 in meds again and having to beg my doctors to see me," Duffy said, describing what would happen if the Supreme Court invalidated the entire law (which is the outcome dissenting justices wanted).
...
"I was more relieved you could imagine," said Steve Clark, a 63-year-old business administrator at a small IT firm in St. Louis. Clark also lost his insurance during an unemployment spell, and his new job doesn't cover him.
After Clark enrolled in the PCIP in March, he said, he finally saw a dermatologist about a small lesion on his lip. The lesion turned out to be no big deal, but the dermatologist found a melanoma on Clark's back. Now he's undergoing treatment with an oncologist.
...
David Howard, a 60-year-old co-owner of an interior design company in San Francisco, described himself as "extremely relieved" by the Supreme Court's decision. He'd been uninsured for more than a year before enrolling in 2010. Early last year a surprise case of meningococcal meningitis put him in the hospital for a month. If he hadn't been insured, he said, he would have had to file for bankruptcy protection and give up his business.
...
Pritchard, 31, said she'd been turned down by insurance companies because she'd been treated for a benign tumor seven years ago. "It’s a huge relief and a load off to know I can pay for health insurance and I can't be turned down for my so-called pre-existing conditions."
287 | freetoken Mon, Jul 2, 2012 12:06:02am |
Attempting to determine what ACA will really cost:
Plenty for Businesses to Mull After High Court Rules
[...]
George McGregor, general manager of the Voluntary Employee Benefits Association in Mission Valley, said large employers with 50 or more employees could be impacted by an overall increase of between 12 and 20 percent for costs associated with providing health care coverage. In the short term, there could be compliance costs for businesses that waited for the Supreme Court decision before complying with the law.
“Now they’re scrambling to figure out what they need to do to restructure their insurance plan to comply with the requirements of health care reform,” said McGregor, whose nonprofit trust represents employees of 40 local school districts and their dependents. [...]
McGregor said some businesses have already experienced cost increases with the rule that children be allowed to remain on their parents’ insurance policies until age 26. The rule was implemented with the first plan year starting after Sept. 23, 2010.
“Our employers saw a one and a half to 2 percent increase in costs for the additional coverage,” he said
[...]
Which sounds about right - after all, 22-26 year olds are not big consumers of healthcare.
If the prediction of 12-20% increase comes true, though, I think we will be hearing some squeals.
Mark Perlberg, president and CEO in the San Diego office of professional employer organization Oasis Outsourcing, said [...]
“You’re talking about a 2014 provision,” he said. “I think there’s going to be a lot of changes between now and then. … A lot of people believe there will be changes in the numbers and effective dates because a lot of places are not ready to go through with this — compliance and recordkeeping.”
It will be interesting to see if the Democrats in Congress try to amend the ACA to accommodate slow adapters whether the GOP will try to scuttle the whole thing through amendments.
288 | Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Mon, Jul 2, 2012 12:09:08am |
re: #287 freetoken
Probably both, followed by a veto by Obama. Bill to make adjustments and fixes will get poisoned via amendment and then scuttled leaving the laws as they stand in place. To followed by much gnashing of teeth.
289 | AK-47% Mon, Jul 2, 2012 12:17:14am |
The Republicans have another major agenda point: do drag their feet and do everything in their power to make it look like HCR is a dismal failure. We will see no end of it, regardless of how the election turns out.
290 | Digital Display Mon, Jul 2, 2012 12:17:37am |
Well it's late..I've been spending several hours working on a good guitar solo and words to a background track..
When I think of all those nights
And all those games you play
All those times I tried to leave
but all those times I stayed
I still hear your laughter
and it cuts me like a blade
---Bridge---
I'm over the edge
Girl I'm falling away
There is nothing more that I can do
There is nothing left I can say
I'm over the edge/I'm falling away
----------
292 | Digital Display Mon, Jul 2, 2012 12:46:39am |
And this track is just begging for good lyrics..I got a bunch of words but it needs lots of work.. I'm calling it Honey Mountain...I dunno..Something
293 | boxhead Mon, Jul 2, 2012 12:46:45am |
re: #289 Expand Your Ground
The Republicans have another major agenda point: do drag their feet and do everything in their power to make it look like HCR is a dismal failure. We will see no end of it, regardless of how the election turns out.
But wasn't that the old agenda point?
294 | Kragar Mon, Jul 2, 2012 12:57:12am |
Mormons quit church in mass resignation ceremony
Among the reasons cited by those resigning are the church's political activism against gay marriage and doctrinal teachings that conflict with scientific findings or are perceived as racist or sexist.
Others cite inconsistencies in the Mormons' explanation of its own history, including the practice of polygamy. The church renounced plural marriage over a century ago as Utah was seeking statehood.
Asked about the resignations, a church spokesman said the church loves and respects each member.
"People make their own decisions about the direction they will follow in life," spokesman Michael Purdy said in an email. "While there are very few who take this action, it is sad to see someone choose to leave. We wish them well."
...
A sixth-generation Mormon, Kris Fielding, 35, traveled from Phoenix for the resignation event in part to represent those who do not yet have the courage to do so, he said, including his wife, who worries about reaction from their families.Married in a Mormon temple, Fielding said the couples shared disaffection from their faith is tied in part to their local church leader's response to questions Fielding had about polyandry and polygamy - taking multiple husbands and wives - in the early church.
"I went to him looking for a faithful perspective. He called my wife and told her she needed to find a new husband," Fielding said.
295 | boxhead Mon, Jul 2, 2012 12:58:35am |
re: #287 freetoken
That is why ACA was never the correct solution. Either single payer or Medicare for all. Insurance companies add an estimated 30% to health care with no added benefits. Watching so many Americans demonize the very successful solutions around the world that are here for us to emulate is frustrating.
This video clip expresses my desires of what I would love to do to those silly folks.... LOL
296 | boxhead Mon, Jul 2, 2012 1:00:30am |
re: #294 Kragar
wow... I hope those that participated will stand strong.
297 | Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Mon, Jul 2, 2012 1:05:33am |
re: #294 Kragar
When a church and its leaders fail to serve your needs properly, and then is unwilling to reasonably work with you, then departing is probably the best option.
301 | boxhead Mon, Jul 2, 2012 1:25:18am |
re: #300 researchok
Watching the Stooges
not till after 2:00 PDT where I live... :) Already had it DVRed... lol
302 | researchok Mon, Jul 2, 2012 1:29:12am |
Funny as hell..guys will appreciate it for sure.
We become 14 again
304 | boxhead Mon, Jul 2, 2012 2:01:01am |
305 | simoom Mon, Jul 2, 2012 2:42:10am |
Apparently National Review’s Ramesh Ponnuru spoke at a Princeton Panel on 6/1 and implied he had an inside source who told him about the Roberts vote switch. He said something similar to the phrase Jan Crawford used from her source — that Chief Justice Roberts had gone “wobbly”.
Ponnuru: inside sources at Supreme Court (really?) tell me the initial vote was 5-4 against Obamacare, but Roberts since turned wobbly.
— Barton Gellman (@bartongellman) June 2, 2012
@Karoli @professorkck @RameshPonnuru Ramesh spoke on a Princeton panel on 6/1. Implied he had an inside source on the Roberts vote switch.
— Barton Gellman (@bartongellman) July 1, 2012
306 | freetoken Mon, Jul 2, 2012 2:48:46am |
re: #294 Kragar
From the link:
'WE HAVE TO BE CAREFUL'
Some leaving the church Saturday did so with trepidation, as Mormon culture often stigmatizes those who fall away, leaving some without social or business connections.
"It's hard, so we have to be very careful," said Robin Hansen, a participant who said she quit over a "culture of abuse" which she believes is cultivated by church teachings promoting obedience.
Hansen said her husband had not joined her in leaving the faith because he works in a church-related business and could lose his job if he doesn't maintain his membership.
To resign from the church, Mormons must submit a formal letter asking their names be removed from church rolls, a church instructional handbook for lay leaders published on the Internet in 2010 shows.
308 | AK-47% Mon, Jul 2, 2012 3:21:06am |
re: #293 boxhead
But wasn't that the old agenda point?
Their agenda point was to block it. Now that is a done deal, their agenda point is to overturn it, and barring that, to hinder its implementation in every way possible.
We already have a handful of governors who are preapred to ignore the law, thus prompting federal intervention, which will be portrayed as the health care equivalent of Sherman marching through Georgia...
309 | Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Mon, Jul 2, 2012 4:59:26am |
Morning Lizardim. Happy Canada Day to my neighbors to the north. As much as we like to poke fun at you, we still owe you a lot of thanks for pulling our asses out of the fire a few times in recent history. We wouldn't be who we are without each other, eh?
310 | AK-47% Mon, Jul 2, 2012 5:04:03am |
And we thank you as a buffer zone keeping us from direct physical contact with Sarah Palin...
311 | Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Mon, Jul 2, 2012 5:20:11am |
re: #309 thedopefishlives
Morning Lizardim. Happy Canada Day to my neighbors to the north. As much as we like to poke fun at you, we still owe you a lot of thanks for pulling our asses out of the fire a few times in recent history. We wouldn't be who we are without each other, eh?
200 year's ago today the War of 1812 is on.
Capture of the Cuyahoga Packet (July 2, 1812): The capture on the Detroit River of the American merchant schooner Cuyahoga Packet. The American vessel contained official documents with information valuable to the British belonging to Brigadier General William Hull.
312 | Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Mon, Jul 2, 2012 5:25:15am |
re: #311 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste
200 year's ago today the War of 1812 is on.
Capture of the Cuyahoga Packet (July 2, 1812): The capture on the Detroit River of the American merchant schooner Cuyahoga Packet. The American vessel contained official documents with information valuable to the British belonging to Brigadier General William Hull.
And 149 years ago, General Robert E. Lee would be giving his morning orders for the main assault at Gettysburg. The famous action of Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain's 20th Maine on the slopes of Little Round Top would secure his place in history.
313 | Sheila Broflovski Mon, Jul 2, 2012 5:27:15am |
Is anybody else getting swarmed by porno spambots on Twitter?
314 | AK-47% Mon, Jul 2, 2012 5:28:24am |
Thank you for giving me a good reason to keep clear of that medium...
315 | Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Mon, Jul 2, 2012 5:28:39am |
re: #312 thedopefishlives
And 149 years ago, General Robert E. Lee would be giving his morning orders for the main assault at Gettysburg. The famous action of Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain's 20th Maine on the slopes of Little Round Top would secure his place in history.
Also the day of fame for the 212th Texas Cavalry! ;)
[Link: groups.google.com...]
316 | Shropshire_Slasher Mon, Jul 2, 2012 5:30:20am |
Man crashes van into Queensbury Taco Bell
[Link: www.timesunion.com...]
Usually I get the runs after eating taco hell.
317 | boxhead Mon, Jul 2, 2012 5:34:55am |
re: #308 Expand Your Ground
Their agenda point was to block it. Now that is a done deal, their agenda point is to overturn it, and barring that, to hinder its implementation in every way possible.
We already have a handful of governors who are preapred to ignore the law, thus prompting federal intervention, which will be portrayed as the health care equivalent of Sherman marching through Georgia...
Same thing, different recipe. Their goal seems to be to spread as much disinformation as to cause the electorate to not understand the realities of the ACA.
Now if those same Governors wanted to show concern about Chief Justice Roberts' ruling on the breadth of taxation powers by Congress, then that would a discussion worth having.
But, unfortunately, divining the true intentions of folks is a power I have not yet achieved. .
318 | Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Mon, Jul 2, 2012 5:35:06am |
re: #315 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste
Also the day of fame for the 212th Texas Cavalry! ;)
[Link: groups.google.com...]
As well as the 1st Minnesota Volunteer Infantry, who made a name for themselves standing in the gap after Dan Sickles's ill-fated maneuver into the Peach Orchard. They lost 215 of their 262 men that hot July afternoon, but they held off the incoming brigade until the reserves could be brought into line.
319 | Sheila Broflovski Mon, Jul 2, 2012 5:40:41am |
re: #318 thedopefishlives
As well as the 1st Minnesota Volunteer Infantry, who made a name for themselves standing in the gap after Dan Sickles's ill-fated maneuver into the Peach Orchard. They lost 215 of their 262 men that hot July afternoon, but they held off the incoming brigade until the reserves could be brought into line.
Did you know that the last time the U.S. military fought a full-fledged cavalry battle was...2003!
320 | Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Mon, Jul 2, 2012 5:42:16am |
re: #319 Learned Mother of Zion
Did you know that the last time the U.S. military fought a full-fledged cavalry battle was...2003!
Yeah, I read that on Cracked the other day. Pretty remarkable. I laughed when they mentioned that out of all the US Special Forces soldiers involved, only one had any familiarity with being on horseback.
321 | Shropshire_Slasher Mon, Jul 2, 2012 5:44:22am |
Katie Holmes fears she can’t take one step without a Scientology goon following her every move in a heavy- handed intimidation attempt.
Read more: [Link: www.nypost.com...]
Poor thing.
322 | AK-47% Mon, Jul 2, 2012 5:44:34am |
re: #317 boxhead
Since the Constitutional challenge failed, all that remains is sheer boneheaded bloody-mindedness...
323 | Sheila Broflovski Mon, Jul 2, 2012 5:46:17am |
re: #320 thedopefishlives
Yeah, I read that on Cracked the other day. Pretty remarkable. I laughed when they mentioned that out of all the US Special Forces soldiers involved, only one had any familiarity with being on horseback.
And then afterward they all had to play a game of Pashtun Polo, where players try to whack a dead goat.
324 | Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Mon, Jul 2, 2012 5:48:15am |
re: #318 thedopefishlives
As well as the 1st Minnesota Volunteer Infantry, who made a name for themselves standing in the gap after Dan Sickles's ill-fated maneuver into the Peach Orchard. They lost 215 of their 262 men that hot July afternoon, but they held off the incoming brigade until the reserves could be brought into line.
A justly famous stand. There's a separate book solely on the 1st Minnesota at Gettysburg.
325 | Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Mon, Jul 2, 2012 5:53:47am |
re: #324 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste
A justly famous stand. There's a separate book solely on the 1st Minnesota at Gettysburg.
The unit's flag hangs in the state capitol building, about half a mile down from where I am currently sitting.
326 | boxhead Mon, Jul 2, 2012 5:56:11am |
re: #322 Expand Your Ground
Since the Constitutional challenge failed, all that remains is sheer boneheaded bloody-mindedness...
The more I read about CJ Roberts' decision, the more I think it was done to remove him from the fray and point to the path on how ACA can be overturned. Congress. Was it a ploy to energize the Righties? To me they seem pretty worked already. But for individual States to refuse ACA, IMHO, would be a path to the removing of those doing so. IF, the Dems can finally and effectively disseminate exactly what ACA is.
327 | Romantic Heretic Mon, Jul 2, 2012 5:59:45am |
re: #218 Varek Raith
True story.
I once took a university level programming course. This was in the late 70s. Doing work consisted of 'Wait in line for card punch. Punch cards. Wait in line for card reader. Read cards. Wait in line for printer. Gather output. Note errors. Go back to waiting in line for card punch. Repeat until no more errors occur.'
Several weeks into the course I was reading a Scientific American. It was full of ads for personal computers. (Apple II, TRS-80, Altair, Imsai and Compucolor among others.)
I went to my prof and asked, "What do you think of these new personal computers coming out?"
His reply? "Eh. They're just toys. They'll never amount to anything."
I quit that course and got my money back. I knew I couldn't learn anything useful from that man. I used the money to get an Apple II instead.
328 | AK-47% Mon, Jul 2, 2012 6:00:13am |
re: #326 boxhead
T IF, the Dems can finally and effectively disseminate exactly what ACA is.
they have been unable to do so since the debate started. some of it is their own lack of eloquence, some of it is the inability to be heard over the background noise and red herrings flying about and some of it is the sheer bloody-mindedness of their audience.
329 | Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Mon, Jul 2, 2012 6:05:49am |
re: #324 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste
The thing that's interesting to me about the 1st Minnesota is that I always knew it was a very small regiment, but it took me a while to realize why. The state had only been admitted to the Union 3 years before the war started, and to top it all off, they were busy fighting the Sioux at home. It's a pretty selfless gesture to round up whatever hardy fighting men you can spare and send them to a war way off to the southeast when you could just as easily have used them in your own internal affairs.
330 | Romantic Heretic Mon, Jul 2, 2012 6:07:03am |
re: #263 palomino
Yes, so many Americans are completely ignorant of the rest of the world, it's truly sad. It's the flip side of American exceptionalism--we don't need to pay attention to the rest of the world because "We're no. 1, we're no. 1, fuck yeah!"
I think that's why 9/11 was such a shock to so many Americans, and so little a shock to the rest of the world. 9/11 rammed home, without lube, that there is a world out there and it does affect America.
Like most such events it was traumatic and lead to some rather extreme and foolish behaviour.
331 | Shropshire_Slasher Mon, Jul 2, 2012 6:07:19am |
Alec Baldwin got married and I wasn't invited, WTF.
[Link: www.nypost.com...]
When I grow up I want my own "handlers"
He does look good, dammit.
332 | Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Mon, Jul 2, 2012 6:14:05am |
re: #329 thedopefishlives
The thing that's interesting to me about the 1st Minnesota is that I always knew it was a very small regiment, but it took me a while to realize why. The state had only been admitted to the Union 3 years before the war started, and to top it all off, they were busy fighting the Sioux at home. It's a pretty selfless gesture to round up whatever hardy fighting men you can spare and send them to a war way off to the southeast when you could just as easily have used them in your own internal affairs.
Yep. A large quantity of the troops came from more heavily populated, and generally eastern, states. New York and Pennsylvania obviously for the Union (though by the end of the war I believe that the US Army had recruited at least one regiment from all the pre-war states, northern and southern.)
Minnesota was still out-and-out frontier at that stage.
There's also an anecdote of a wit serving picket duty during the Petersburg siege telling the Confederates that he was in the 151st Rhode Island regiment while they were gabbing back and forth.
333 | boxhead Mon, Jul 2, 2012 6:15:04am |
re: #328 Expand Your Ground
they have been unable to do so since the debate started. some of it is their own lack of eloquence, some of it is the inability to be heard over the background noise and red herrings flying about and some of it is the sheer bloody-mindedness of their audience.
Why does it have to be so hard? Is it the lack of an echo chamber such as the Right employs? Or because many on the Left loath the idea of having to wallow in the muck. But that would be implying something about the Left I am unable to support. Heck, I have a loud voice, give me a mic and I know I can shout down any other talking head on TV. LOL
334 | Aye Pod Mon, Jul 2, 2012 6:16:18am |
re: #218 Varek Raith
This computer is 2000 years old. Those Greeks were GOOD.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
335 | Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Mon, Jul 2, 2012 6:16:44am |
re: #332 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste
Yep. A large quantity of the troops came from more heavily populated, and generally eastern, states. New York and Pennsylvania obviously for the Union (though by the end of the war I believe that the US Army had recruited at least one regiment from all the pre-war states, northern and southern.)
Minnesota was still out-and-out frontier at that stage.
There's also an anecdote of a wit serving picket duty during the Petersburg siege telling the Confederates that he was in the 151st Rhode Island regiment while they were gabbing back and forth.
151st Rhode Island, that's a good one. I can just imagine the look on the Rebel soldier's face.
336 | Mattand Mon, Jul 2, 2012 6:17:27am |
re: #308 Expand Your Ground
Their agenda point was to block it. Now that is a done deal, their agenda point is to overturn it, and barring that, to hinder its implementation in every way possible.
We already have a handful of governors who are preapred to ignore the law, thus prompting federal intervention, which will be portrayed as the health care equivalent of Sherman marching through Georgia...
I'd like to think that this is actually the health care equivalent of Wallace blocking the school entrance. Given what Wallace was trying to accomplish, it may not be the best analogy.
I'm really trying to figure out the end game on this one. Are they expecting the electorate to say "Thanks, Governor, my kids didn't need easier access to a doctor!" Then again, most of these guys are GOP. They get into office via voters who are voting against their own self-interest.
What are the legal consequences for governors ignoring federal, SCOTUS-backed law?
Chris Christie was holding off on implementing NJ's part of the deal until the SCOTUS weighed in. I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop here. I'm guessing he's going to make some snide remark but implement the law.
Who knows? He may sit down and pout like the others if he thinks it'll burnish his image among the GOP nationally *coughPresident2016cough*
337 | SidewaysQuark Mon, Jul 2, 2012 6:19:26am |
re: #334 Aye Pod
This computer is 2000 years old. Those Greeks were GOOD.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
Why does it need a steering wheel?
338 | boxhead Mon, Jul 2, 2012 6:20:09am |
339 | Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Mon, Jul 2, 2012 6:21:49am |
re: #336 Mattand
I'd like to think that this is actually the health care equivalent of Wallace blocking the school entrance. Given what Wallace was trying to accomplish, it may not be the best analogy.
I'm really trying to figure out the end game on this one. Are they expecting the electorate to say "Thanks, Governor, my kids didn't need easier access to a doctor!" Then again, most of these guys are GOP. They get into office via voters who are voting against their own self-interest,
What are the legal consequences for governors ignoring federal, SCOTUS-backed law?
Chris Christie was holding off on implementing NJ's part of the deal until the SCOTUS weighed in. I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop here. I'm guessing he's going to make some snide remark but implement the law.
Who knows? He may sit down and pout like the others if he thinks it'll burnish his image among the GOP nationally *coughPresident2016cough*
The whining I'm seeing is almost totally fixated on "tax" "tax" "tax" and a belief that it will cost them "more" in order to support "freeloaders". Basically a complete swallowing of the standard talking points. No indication of awareness of how costs in the current system keep escalating, that people are losing coverage, not able to get coverage, and are being screwed over by the current system, or even admiting that the whole "tax" doesn't kick in unless someone wants to avoid getting with the program. Which, to a degree, is there to prevent someone avoiding their share of paying and then jumping in when it turns out they guessed wrong.
340 | boxhead Mon, Jul 2, 2012 6:28:01am |
re: #339 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste
Yeah... tax on good folks to pay for bad folks is the main focus. They might want to actually learn what ACA does and does not do. But again, the White House MUST do better at dissemination and Citizens MUST be willing to learn.
Which of those are two will be embraced?
341 | AK-47% Mon, Jul 2, 2012 6:30:16am |
re: #336 Mattand
What are the legal consequences for governors ignoring federal, SCOTUS-backed law?
AFAIK, if the states don't follow the law, establishing exchanges and expanding medicare, then the Federal Government steps in and takes over, at which point the states complain of "federal thuggery"...
342 | Decatur Deb Mon, Jul 2, 2012 6:30:29am |
re: #335 thedopefishlives
151st Rhode Island, that's a good one. I can just imagine the look on the Rebel soldier's face.
Twenty years ago I wrote an Army Regulation that needed examples from a mythical installation. The last time I looked, there was still reference to Ft. B(enedict) Arnold, Rhode Island, in the subsequent editions of AR 385-10.
343 | William Barnett-Lewis Mon, Jul 2, 2012 6:37:25am |
Testing ... testing ....
Well it seems Firefox 9-ish can handle LGF, though a bit slowly. Really need to bump it up to a gig or two and it'll be a nice little netbook kind of thing so I can go online or stream music when I'm out and about. Not as nice as a refurb Macbook Air, but even with RAM, disk & battery upgrades, it's still a heck of a lot cheaper & FreeBSD is at the base of OS X anyway.
Good Morning, all!
344 | Mattand Mon, Jul 2, 2012 6:44:25am |
re: #343 William Barnett-Lewis
Testing ... testing ...
Well it seems Firefox 9-ish can handle LGF, though a bit slowly. Really need to bump it up to a gig or two and it'll be a nice little netbook kind of thing so I can go online or stream music when I'm out and about. Not as nice as a refurb Macbook Air, but even with RAM, disk & battery upgrades, it's still a heck of a lot cheaper & FreeBSD is at the base of OS X anyway.Good Morning, all!
Yo, yo.
Speaking of browsers:
I switched my dad to Chrome a year or so ago. At first, he loved it due to the speed increase; amazing what having a browser not loaded with toolbars will do for you.
Lately, though, he's been complaining about pages not working. As best as I can tell, he's referring to the "aw snap" error messages when Flash goes wonky.
He's running a 7 year old Dell laptop. Anyone else seeing this?
345 | lawhawk Mon, Jul 2, 2012 6:57:30am |
re: #336 Mattand
If the states don't have exchanges in place by 2014, when the individual mandate kicks in, they'll be cut out of the loop and the federal government will impose its own version of the exchanges, with the funding structures intact (the state will have to kick in its set percentage, regardless of whether it acts to impose its own exchange or not).
Some states are going to drag their heels, hoping that Congress reverses its decision to impose the individual mandate and that Romney wins the White House so that the White House doesn't repeal the measure.
Others are moving ahead, since the feds are providing funds to help get the exchanges going. Nearly $1 billion has been distributed thus far, so states that don't get with the program will find themselves shut out on the funds needed to get the exchanges rolling.
Perhaps some states think that this might get the feds to kick in a greater contribution towards the startup costs. They may have a point, but unless Congress pushes the IM deadline back, those states that aren't moving towards an exchange will find themselves in a mess.
Consumers in those states will be at a disadvantage if the states don't get their exchanges going since they'll be without the insurance coverage available to other states. In some places, like LA, TX, and FL, they have the highest rate of uninsureds, which means that a significant portion of the electorate would be voting against their own interest if the IM gets repealed (those states would benefit most from exchanges). But the GOP is trying to capitalize on fear-mongering that the IM is somehow stripping away freedoms, even as they were touting IM as a sign of personal responsibility just a few years ago before President Obama made it part of the health care reform package.
346 | William Barnett-Lewis Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:00:05am |
re: #344 Mattand
Yo, yo.
Speaking of browsers:
I switched my dad to Chrome a year or so ago. At first, he loved it due to the speed increase; amazing what having a browser not loaded with toolbars will do for you.
Lately, though, he's been complaining about pages not working. As best as I can tell, he's referring to the "aw snap" error messages when Flash goes wonky.
He's running a 7 year old Dell laptop. Anyone else seeing this?
I get that a fair bit on my Mac as well. Mostly Java applets but often it's Flash too. Make sure both the versions of Chrome & Flash are fully up to date. Sometimes the proverbial restart of Chrome is enough.
But really, Flash has been getting worse the last few releases. It's like they know HTML5 is killing them off and the coders at Adobe stopped caring.
347 | lawhawk Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:00:48am |
re: #344 Mattand
I've gotten those Flash crash errors with Chrome on occasion, but it's usually insufficient to crash the entire browser - the window just freezes, or it continues without loading/running the Flash applet.
When FF encountered those kinds of errors, it would crash the entire browser after becoming a huge memory hog.
Since switching to Chrome on this computer, it's been a godsend.
348 | Shropshire_Slasher Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:07:21am |
Zombie Apocolypse continues:
[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]
Dong!
Dong!
Automobile?!
350 | lawhawk Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:11:48am |
re: #349 Expand Your Ground
10 of 10. Better than 99.7% of the population.
351 | Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:13:36am |
352 | GunstarGreen Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:14:46am |
re: #336 Mattand
I'm really trying to figure out the end game on this one. Are they expecting the electorate to say "Thanks, Governor, my kids didn't need easier access to a doctor!" Then again, most of these guys are GOP. They get into office via voters who are voting against their own self-interest.
They're expecting the electorate to say "Gee, I sure don't want to pay taxes to help those dirty, leechin' brown folks!"
They also expect the electorate to ignore the fact that they already do that via higher healthcare costs to cover all the uncompensated healthcare that happens as a result of the screwed-up insurance industry. Issues that the individual mandate and regulations on billing are intended to address.
353 | Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:16:56am |
354 | lawhawk Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:19:04am |
As percentage of GDP, the health care reform isn't anywhere being the biggest tax hike in history. Indeed, it's not even the biggest tax hike from the past 30 years.
Oh, and the individual mandate portion isn't the biggest or widest ranging tax from the reform package. That would be on high-income earners, which would bring in $200 billion over 10 years.
355 | darthstar Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:20:03am |
re: #222 It's a cookbook!
I would trade six gigs of ram and two cores off my processor if only my PC could have a steering wheel like that.
Agreed.
356 | darthstar Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:24:36am |
Happy Monday, everyone. Welcome to my vacation week. Yes, I'm actually using one of those four weeks of paid vacation to not go to work, but instead spend that time hanging out with my wife and dogs on the shores of Lake Tahoe. Biking, swimming, fishing...probably a little gambling for mom's birthday on the 4th...and maybe a little drinking...okay, a lot of sitting around drinking...but hey, what's family for?
358 | AK-47% Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:26:31am |
359 | Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:27:27am |
re: #356 darthstar
Happy Monday, everyone. Welcome to my vacation week. Yes, I'm actually using one of those four weeks of paid vacation to not go to work, but instead spend that time hanging out with my wife and dogs on the shores of Lake Tahoe. Biking, swimming, fishing...probably a little gambling for mom's birthday on the 4th...and maybe a little drinking...okay, a lot of sitting around drinking...but hey, what's family for?
Bailing you out of jail. And being a source of anecdotes as your convince others in the bar that you exist in the midst of a dysfunctional maze of weirdness; most of which share at least part of your genetic code to a closer degree than anyone would desire. ;)
360 | darthstar Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:30:47am |
361 | AK-47% Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:31:44am |
It's not a steering wheel, it's a steam pressure release valve...
362 | darthstar Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:33:20am |
re: #361 Expand Your Ground
It's not a steering wheel, it's a steam pressure release valve...
That's better than a heat sink and a fan...I want a fucking steam pressure release valve on my laptop then.
363 | Decatur Deb Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:34:39am |
re: #362 darthstar
That's better than a heat sink and a fan...I want a fucking steam pressure release valve on my laptop then.
My desktop did a smoke release a couple days ago. Looking for an IDE-USB drive enclosure now.
364 | AK-47% Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:37:02am |
re: #362 darthstar
That's better than a heat sink and a fan...I want a fucking steam pressure release valve on my laptop then.
365 | NJDhockeyfan Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:39:28am |
Good morning lizards!
I got power Saturday night. It looks like some people around here won't get it until Friday.
366 | Killgore Trout Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:40:18am |
Islamists Continue Destroying Timbuktu Heritage
This is the 3rd day. Isn't there a spare drone or two in the region that could sort this out?
367 | blueraven Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:40:20am |
re: #349 Expand Your Ground
10 of 10 for me too. But what is disturbing is looking at what the public gets wrong
Top 3:
Will the health reform law cut benefits that were previously provided to all people on Medicare? 40% answered correctly
Will the health reform law require all businesses, even the smallest ones, to provide health insurance for their employees? 25% answered correctly
Will the health reform law create a new government run insurance plan to be offered along with private plans? 27% answered correctly
5 out of the 10 questions are under 50% correctly answered.
368 | Sheila Broflovski Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:40:39am |
ObamaCare is the biggest tax increase in history, except for all the tax increases under Reagan!
Obamacare is the BIGGEST TAX INCREASE IN HISTORY. Do the math. Add it up, ignore all tax increases under Reagan, and you'll see it's true.— Top Conservative Cat (@TeaPartyCat) July 2, 2012
369 | Killgore Trout Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:41:06am |
re: #365 NJDhockeyfan
Good morning lizards!
I got power Saturday night. It looks like some people around here won't get it until Friday.
Congratulations!
370 | NJDhockeyfan Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:43:02am |
re: #369 Killgore Trout
Congratulations!
I was concerned I wouldn't get it for days. A fresh shower was the best one I had for a long time.
371 | NJDhockeyfan Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:44:57am |
Al Qaeda planning to bomb US plane in run-up to Olympics: report
Intelligence officials have uncovered a new al Qaeda plot to bomb a US passenger jet in the run-up to the London Olympics, according to a new report.
Al Qaeda's Yemen-based terror cell, the same organization behind the 2009 attempted underwear bombing and a similar terror plot uncovered by a CIA informant less than two months ago, is believed to be behind this latest planned attack, according to the Sunday Times of London.
The plan is not specifically targeted to the Olympics, intelligence officials told the paper, and instead should be seen as another attempt by al Qaeda's Yemen affiliate to blow up a US plane.
372 | Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:47:00am |
re: #367 blueraven
5 out of the 10 questions are under 50% correctly answered.
In fairness, the question about small businesses being required to provide health insurance threw even me. It's not something that's spelled out in detail quite as much.
373 | Killgore Trout Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:47:21am |
re: #371 NJDhockeyfan
“There is terrorist plotting going on irrespective of the Olympics. The only thing that connects this to the Olympics is the fact that they are about to happen,” said a Whitehall official.
Al Qaeda has recruited a Norwegian convert who goes by the Islamic name of Muslim Abu Abdurrahman at a training camp in Yemen to carry out the plot, the paper reports.
Ah, It's the Norwegian guy for a few weeks ago.
374 | Gus Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:47:27am |
re: #360 darthstar
I still want a fucking steering wheel on my laptop!
375 | lawhawk Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:48:37am |
re: #368 Learned Mother of Zion
As I posted above, the HCR tax hikes aren't even the biggest tax hikes from the past 30 years - the Reagan, Bush I, and Clinton hikes were bigger.
376 | AK-47% Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:49:45am |
re: #372 thedopefishlives
In fairness, the question about small businesses being required to provide health insurance threw even me. It's not something that's spelled out in detail quite as much.
I got that one wrong, too. It is a key selling point in the "job killer" arguments we are going to be hearing in the near future.
377 | lawhawk Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:49:45am |
re: #372 thedopefishlives
The key language is all small businesses. Only businesses with 50 or more employees are required to provide insurance to employees (via exchanges if necessary).
378 | abolitionist Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:51:41am |
re: #218 Varek Raith
I have a 2004 home computer and it looks very little like that --except at night with all the power off.
379 | blueraven Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:52:06am |
re: #372 thedopefishlives
In fairness, the question about small businesses being required to provide health insurance threw even me. It's not something that's spelled out in detail quite as much.
Yes, that's kind of my point. Even well informed people dont know what is in this bill and the republicans have done a great job spreading misinformation.
The democrats, on the other hand, have done a lousy job selling it.
380 | HappyWarrior Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:52:32am |
9/10. This makes me even more upset that people bought and will continue to buy the TP and GOP bullshit on this legislation. I really hope the Obama campaign and Democrats can get the message out effectively. The people were conned all right not by Obama but by McConnell, Cantor, Boehner, and the GOP presidential candidates.
381 | NJDhockeyfan Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:54:24am |
re: #373 Killgore Trout
Ah, It's the Norwegian guy for a few weeks ago.
How do you keep an eye on everyone's underwear?
382 | HappyWarrior Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:54:35am |
re: #379 blueraven
Yes, that's kind of my point. Even well informed people dont know what is in this bill and the republicans have done a great job spreading misinformation.
The democrats, on the other hand, have done a lousy job selling it.
Problem with many Democrats is many ran away from it as soon as it became unpopular. Stupid, stupid. This is a piece of legislation that will make thousands of lives better. The Democrats and supporters of the bill need to get that message out to counteract the "OMG it's an attack on our freedom" dishonest people.
383 | darthstar Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:56:46am |
384 | abolitionist Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:58:22am |
re: #383 darthstar
That's a laptop on a steering wheel. Jesus...nobody listens anymore.
Suppose it could be tough trying to honk the horn in an emergency.
385 | lawhawk Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:59:34am |
Fact checking Obama and Romney on health care claims.
For those keeping score, the following claims were deemed false:
* Obama has stated some form of "if you're happy with your health insurance, you'll be able to keep it." Nothing in the law states that you will be able to keep your plan; employers can change plans as they see fit (that's no change to the existing system in place)
* Romney's claims that the ACA will add to the deficit are false; it's based on the CBO's worst case scenario, while the CBO middle range figures expect it to cut the deficit over time - assuming that the law doesn't change over time.
True:
* to a degree, Obama's claims that Americans will see rebates for costs already paid. It will be a modest amount for some of those affected by overpayments over time.
* Romney's claims that the ACA will mean $500 billion in tax hikes, though most of that amount falls on high income earners, including $200 billion from additional Medicare payroll tax.
* partially true that the provisions relating to dependents 26 and younger have meant millions have gotten insurance. The figure is probably closer to 3 million, though one study puts it above 6 million (the figure Obama cites).
I'd put this in the indeterminate range:
* Romney's claims that the ACA will kill jobs. It does mean people are more likely to leave the workforce, but not for reasons Romney states. People will no longer continue working because they'll have access to health insurance outside jobs. That potentially opens the door to new employees and more job movement - not necessarily a bad thing. It doesn't reflect that jobs will be destroyed because of the ACA.
386 | AK-47% Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:03:46am |
re: #384 abolitionist
Suppose it could be tough trying to honk the horn in an emergency.
there's an app for that
387 | darthstar Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:08:30am |
re: #384 abolitionist
Suppose it could be tough trying to honk the horn in an emergency.
Get off the information superhighway, road hog!
388 | HappyWarrior Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:08:56am |
I think it'll come down to who can sell the pro or con of the legislation better. I think Obama will do better than Mitt because Mitt will come across as unbelievably insincere calling for the legislation's repeal even as he acknowledges he wants to keep certain popular things such as not allowing insurers to deny based on pre-existing conditions. Plus, there's the elephant in the room that is Romneycare, people will wonder how Mitt could denounce something so remarkable similar to what he did in Massachusetts. Sure some will buy the 10th amendment bullshit that Mitt and his surrogates have tried but the fact is Obama will have an easier time selling keeping ACA than Mitt will repealing it because ultimately the benefits of the legislation are going to become apparent to the public, the fact that USSC upheld its legality makes the legislation alot harder to attack in the ways that worked in 2010 when constitutionality was uncertain. Not sure, this is all a hunch as the bill remains controversial but make no mistake I think Obama's road to re-election just got easier.
389 | darthstar Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:09:40am |
re: #385 lawhawk
It's okay...Fehrnstrom says the mandate's not a tax...wait, what?
[Link: www.dailykos.com...]
390 | NJDhockeyfan Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:10:48am |
re: #385 lawhawk
Fact checking Obama campaign on Romney/Bain job outsourcing claims...
...But after reviewing numerous corporate filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission, contemporary news accounts, company histories and press releases, and the evidence offered by both the Obama and Romney campaigns, we found no evidence to support the claim that Romney — while he was still running Bain Capital — shipped American jobs overseas.
One TV ad, called “Come and Go,” claims that Romney “shipped jobs to China and Mexico.” But two examples cited by the Obama campaign occurred after Romney left Bain. There’s no clear evidence that a third company shipped jobs to China under Romney.
A second ad called “Revealed” mocks Romney’s tough talk about cracking down on China’s trade practices by saying “all he’s ever done is send them our jobs” and citing the Washington Post article. But the newspaper article contained no examples of U.S. jobs being shipped to China while Romney was working at Bain.
The “Come and Go” ad casts Romney as a “corporate raider,” but that term, loaded with negative connotations, is simply inaccurate. Bain didn’t engage in hostile takeovers when Romney was at the helm.
That ad also repeats the claim that as governor of Massachusetts, Romney was “outsourcing state jobs to India.” But it wasn’t the state that outsourced contracts. Rather, Romney vetoed a measure that would have prevented the state from doing business with a state contractor that was locating state customer-service calls in India.
391 | Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:11:23am |
re: #388 HappyWarrior
Obama also has the advantage of digging in the archives and finding a lot of GOP politicians speaking in favor of the various bits before 2008.
392 | blueraven Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:15:21am |
re: #385 lawhawk
I'd put this in the indeterminate range:
* Romney's claims that the ACA will kill jobs. It does mean people are more likely to leave the workforce, but not for reasons Romney states. People will no longer continue working because they'll have access to health insurance outside jobs. That potentially opens the door to new employees and more job movement - not necessarily a bad thing. It doesn't reflect that jobs will be destroyed because of the ACA.
I have several friends (moms) who worked just to get health insurance when our kids were little. Most of their husbands were self employed but could not afford insurance.
A lot of these women would have rather have stayed home with their children and with day care expenses, they barely came out ahead. But not having health care insurance when you have kids and are not considered poor, is just not an option.
393 | HappyWarrior Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:20:24am |
re: #391 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste
Obama also has the advantage of digging in the archives and finding lot of GOP politicians speaking in favor of the various bits before 2008.
Yep. People are going to realize that GOP political opposition to ACA is and I'm putting it kindly here opportunistic. I think it would be a great ad much like Kerry was derided in 2004 for "being for it before he was against it." You can dig up adclips of pretty much any GOP presidential candidate not named Ron Paul supporting a mandate at some point in time.
394 | darthstar Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:20:45am |
The effects of drugs...on Spongebob.
395 | Killgore Trout Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:27:46am |
Today's outrageous outrage seems to be something about Mitt selling aborted fetuses. OMG!
396 | lawhawk Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:27:46am |
re: #389 darthstar
Yeah, both Romney and Obama are using virtually identical talking points re: Mass Care and the PPACA respectively.
Not surprising since the signature legislation in Mass. was the basis for the PPACA's individual mandate provisions.
Note too that Mass. has one of the lowest rates of uninsureds in the nation, while states that are busy complaining loudly about the mandate are among those with the highest rates of uninsureds.
Some of that is they will have to kick in a bunch of money to cover their portion of the expanded coverage, but it also means that Texas, Louisiana and Florida will end up reducing the percentage of uninsured significantly (those three are among the worst in the nation, so have the most to gain from expanding access to insurance).
397 | sattv4u2 Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:27:46am |
398 | HappyWarrior Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:30:36am |
re: #395 Killgore Trout
Today's outrageous outrage seems to be something about Mitt selling aborted fetuses. OMG!
I don't particularly care, but if he's selling himself as anti abortion, don't you see why that's just a little hypocritical? "I'm against abortion, I'm okay with profiting from it though."
399 | dragonfire1981 Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:30:54am |
Just when I thought I'd heard everything:
There is apparently a fringe group in Canada with the stated goal of bringing "U.S. style health care" up North.
Yeah, good luck with that...
400 | HappyWarrior Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:32:38am |
re: #399 dragonfire1981
Just when I thought I'd heard everything:
There is apparently a fringe group in Canada with the stated goal of bringing "U.S. style health care" up North.
Yeah, good luck with that...
Isn't the Canadian health care system even popular among Canadian conservatives or maybe that was UK conservatives. I always see it pointed out that even Thatcher was okay with the system because she saw its efficiency.
401 | iossarian Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:33:29am |
re: #395 Killgore Trout
Today's outrageous outrage seems to be something about Mitt selling aborted fetuses. OMG!
What's great about this is that I wouldn't even have noticed the story had you not tried to MBF it away.
So Romney was part of Bain's investment in a horrifically evil company* and then lied about it. SOP I suppose. The GOP will ignore it because IOKIYAAR and to anyone who's paying attention it's further confirmation that Republican politicians are money-loving hypocrites.
* according to the GOP had this been something that a Democrat had been involved in
403 | sattv4u2 Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:34:07am |
re: #393 HappyWarrior
You can dig up adclips of pretty much any GOP presidential candidate not named Ron Paul supporting a mandate at some point in time.
Careful there. That knife cuts both ways
The Senator Obama arguing against mandating buying insurance and fines for not buying it
404 | blueraven Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:36:36am |
re: #395 Killgore Trout
Today's outrageous outrage seems to be something about Mitt selling aborted fetuses. OMG!
I think the bigger outrage...at least for republicans is that Mitt Romney doesn't think the mandate is a tax. He thinks it is a fee or penalty. He agrees with Obama.
405 | sattv4u2 Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:37:19am |
re: #395 Killgore Trout
Today's outrageous outrage seems to be something about Mitt selling aborted fetuses. OMG!
heh
George Carlin on birth control pills and how they should be marketed
NO FETUS CAN BEAT US
PREG-NOT
406 | Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:37:28am |
re: #394 darthstar
The effects of drugs...on Spongebob.
I don't know what 1/2 those drugs are.
I feel soooo old.
407 | lawhawk Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:38:13am |
re: #403 sattv4u2
The spin that the President could put on it is that he didn't think it went far enough to contain costs or similar arguments.
Romney's in a tougher position since he established a program that has the same look/feel as the PPACA. It's tougher for him to distance himself from individual mandates than it is for Obama to distance himself from his prior position.
That's also why Romney is toning down his rhetoric on repealing Obamacare; he's now saying he would move to preserve some of the options, including expanding coverage to dependents 26 and under.
There's quite a bit of stuff that most people find acceptable, but somehow the IM got castigated. It's not even the biggest tax component of the entire PPACA; that would be the portion of taxes imposed on on high-income earners, including the Medicare payroll tax expansion.
408 | iossarian Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:40:16am |
re: #404 blueraven
I think the bigger outrage...at least for republicans is that Mitt Romney doesn't think the mandate is a tax. He thinks it is a fee or penalty. He agrees with Obama.
The tax/penalty debate is yet another attempt by Obama's opponents to talk about anything except whether the policy helps people (hint: this is because it does).
The semantics are irrelevant. The policy does many things but in this instance it prevents free riderism and provides affordable healthcare. Thus it is a good thing.
409 | HappyWarrior Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:42:13am |
re: #407 lawhawk
The spin that the President could put on it is that he didn't think it went far enough to contain costs or similar arguments.
Romney's in a tougher position since he established a program that has the same look/feel as the PPACA. It's tougher for him to distance himself from individual mandates than it is for Obama to distance himself from his prior position.
That's also why Romney is toning down his rhetoric on repealing Obamacare; he's now saying he would move to preserve some of the options, including expanding coverage to dependents 26 and under.
There's quite a bit of stuff that most people find acceptable, but somehow the IM got castigated. It's not even the biggest tax component of the entire PPACA; that would be the portion of taxes imposed on on high-income earners, including the Medicare payroll tax expansion.
Plus, he had wanted the public option but if you recall the Blue Dogs poo-pooed that. He may not have wanted the mandate but I think he was willing to compromise to get the bill passed and the mandate's inclusion is part of why it passed the House. I think that's different than embracing the idea of a mandate than running away from it because a guy you dislike is president. And Romney's "Let's repeal but keep the popular stuff" is just dishonest.
410 | Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:42:30am |
It's about Power for Men, not G-d.
How Corrupt Catholics and Evangelicals Abuse Religious Freedom My Pages Post
It is a terrible thing when a once-noble phrase gets beaten to a meaningless pulp. The time has now come to rescue the phrase "religious freedom" from its abusers. In the writings and speeches of Catholic bishops and evangelical leaders in recent months, "religious freedom" has come to mean something close to its opposite. It now stands for "religious privilege". It is a coded way for them to state their demand that religious institutions should be allowed special powers that exempt them from the laws of the land.
411 | blueraven Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:42:37am |
re: #408 iossarian
The tax/penalty debate is yet another attempt by Obama's opponents to talk about anything except whether the policy helps people (hint: this is because it does).
The semantics are irrelevant. The policy does many things but in this instance it prevents free riderism and provides affordable healthcare. Thus it is a good thing.
Agreed! This puts Romney in a real pickle though, having to defend his mandate as a fee and going against the republican talking points.
412 | darthstar Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:43:49am |
re: #395 Killgore Trout
Today's outrageous outrage seems to be something about Mitt selling aborted fetuses. OMG!
He didn't sell aborted fetuses. He just profited from investing in a company that disposed of them. And then he lied about it in the GOP primary because he was battling Santorum and Gingrich at the time.
Romney's a lying cocksucker...that's what he does best (lie...you'll have to wait until after the election to hear about the other)...yet another lie just caught up with him...and this one won't make his anti-choice supporters very happy.
413 | darthstar Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:44:52am |
Time to get ready for the road...have a good day all.
414 | Mattand Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:46:11am |
re: #363 Decatur Deb
My desktop did a smoke release a couple days ago. Looking for an IDE-USB drive enclosure now.
415 | Mattand Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:50:32am |
re: #345 lawhawk
Thanks for the info. It unfortunately reinforces my opinion that people like Jindal are willing to jeopardize their citizens' health in the name of hurting Obama.
416 | Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:50:45am |
It's the first of the month --where did June go? I seem to have misplaced it somewhere.
417 | sattv4u2 Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:52:15am |
re: #416 ggt
It's the first of the month --where did June go? I seem to have misplaced it somewhere.
INSTRUCTIONS
Go to wall
Find calender
Flip back one page
418 | HappyWarrior Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:53:17am |
re: #415 Mattand
Thanks for the info. It unfortunately reinforces my opinion that people like Jindal are willing to jeopardize their citizens' health in the name of hurting Obama.
In that case, we hope for a backlash. It's unbelievable how governors like Jindal can call this an assault on our freedom and liberty while at the same time signing and supporting legislation that is intended to guilt trip women during legal operations.
419 | NJDhockeyfan Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:56:50am |
Iranian General: Israeli Attack Would “Hand Us An Excuse” to Wipe Israel Off the Map
Any attack on Iran by Israel would “hand us an excuse to wipe them off the face of the earth,” Iranian Revolutionary Guard General Amir Ali Hajizadeh said Sunday.
Hajizadeh, announcing three days of missile tests by Iran, said the exercises should be seen as a message “that the Islamic Republic of Iran is resolute in standing up to … bullying, and will respond to any possible evil decisively and strongly,” according to the IRNA news agency.
420 | Killgore Trout Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:57:26am |
re: #419 NJDhockeyfan
Iranian General: Israeli Attack Would “Hand Us An Excuse” to Wipe Israel Off the Map
Mistranslation!
/
421 | AK-47% Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:57:46am |
422 | NJDhockeyfan Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:59:31am |
423 | AK-47% Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:00:08am |
re: #422 NJDhockeyfan
Taken out of context!
/
they know it ain't gonna happen so they can pose and posture all they want
424 | lawhawk Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:00:35am |
Today, former Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir was laid to rest. I remember meeting him in person in 1993, and listening to him talk about Israel, peace with the Palestinians, and his vision for Israel.
He was involved in Israeli politics since its founding, and he was among the last of the old guard with connections to the founding.
425 | sattv4u2 Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:00:53am |
re: #421 Expand Your Ground
rhetoric
It's all rhetoric, until one of them says "hold my beer, I want to try something"
//
426 | Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:04:26am |
427 | sattv4u2 Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:04:46am |
re: #420 Killgore Trout
Miss Translation!
/
I tried to date her once, but we didn't communicate real well!!
/
428 | AK-47% Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:07:15am |
re: #427 sattv4u2
I tried to date her once, but we didn't communicate real well!!
/
Should've gone out with Miss Information
429 | sattv4u2 Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:08:56am |
re: #428 Expand Your Ground
Should've gone out with Miss Information
I tried, but the address she gave me to meet her at was a vacant lot and the phone # she gave me wasn't in service!
431 | Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:10:33am |
re: #429 sattv4u2
I tried, but the address she gave me to meet her at was a vacant lot and the phone # she gave me wasn't in service!
That wasn't Miss Information, that was Miss Direction.
432 | sattv4u2 Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:10:42am |
We're gonna need a bigger boat!
Cape Cod holiday-makers told to beware as 16ft great white shark is spotted off coast
Read more: [Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]
433 | sattv4u2 Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:11:05am |
434 | sattv4u2 Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:11:26am |
435 | Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:12:15am |
436 | sattv4u2 Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:12:42am |
437 | Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:13:10am |
438 | Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:15:59am |
sumpsimus --kinda rolls off the tongue, doesn't it.
Hope I can remember it when certain people are posting.
439 | Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:18:38am |
re: #436 sattv4u2
I thought it was July!
It's the first working day of the month. Yesterday was broken.
440 | Kronocide Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:18:43am |
Meanwhile, 75 million light years ago....
Seventy-five million light years ago an alien dictator called Lord Xenu led an empire of 76 planets including Earth called the Galactic Federation. He ordered a cull of humans, and their souls, called Thetans were shipped to Earth.
Editing, you're doing it wrong.
441 | sattv4u2 Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:21:50am |
re: #439 ggt
It's the first working day of the month. Yesterday was broken.
Not for me
Did 10 hours at work yesterday, and we didn't even have any Wimbledon transmissions to do!
442 | lawhawk Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:21:57am |
re: #440 Kronocide
Did they do the Kessel run under 12 parsecs? /
443 | NJDhockeyfan Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:22:23am |
Gunmen barrage 2 Kenya churches, killing at least 15
NAIROBI — Masked gunmen sprayed bullets and hurled grenades at two churches in a northern Kenyan town on Sunday, killing at least 15 people and injuring scores more, police officials said.
It was the latest in a series of attacks on this East African nation suspected of possibly being carried out by al-Qaida militants in neighboring Somalia or their sympathizers.
The assaults unfolded in the town of Garissa, a predominantly Muslim enclave about 120 miles from the Somalia border that Kenyan forces have used as a base of operations to fight Somalia’s Al-Shabab militia.
“They just walked in and shot the people inside the church after they killed the policemen guarding the entrance,” said Philip Ndolo, the regional deputy police chief, blaming the attacks on “goons.”
The attacks occurred two days after gunmen kidnapped four aid workers from Kenya’s Dadaab refugee camp, about 60 miles from Garissa, and killed their driver before fleeing into Somalia.
444 | Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:29:15am |
re: #441 sattv4u2
Not for me
Did 10 hours at work yesterday, and we didn't even have any Wimbledon transmissions to do!
What about the Outer Hebrides?
446 | sattv4u2 Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:31:17am |
re: #444 ggt
What about the Outer Hebrides?
Take two shots of penicillin and call me in the morning
Oh ,, and wear something to cover them up
447 | Simply Sarah Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:32:35am |
And I survive another instance of helping out in preparing for a party at my parents' house where my mom stresses the hell out over making sure there is enough food to feed at least three times as many guests as we will actually have and plans activities that people will never get to. Alas, my attempts to keep her more even-keeled this time did not seem to help much.
448 | AK-47% Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:35:00am |
449 | NJDhockeyfan Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:35:37am |
Things are still on edge at the Turkish/Syrian border.
Turkey scrambles jets to counter Syrian copters
ANKARA - Turkey scrambled six F-16 fighter jets in three separate incidents responding to Syrian military helicopters approaching the border on Sunday, its armed forces command said on Monday.
It was the second time in as many days Turkish jets were launched in response to Syrian helicopters flying near the border and comes after a Turkish reconnaissance plane was shot down by Syria late last month.
The jets took off from Incirlik air base in southern Turkey after Syrian helicopters were spotted flying south of the Turkish province of Hatay, the chief of general staff said on the military’s website.
Two helicopters had come within 4km and one had come within 3.2km of the border, it said. Two of the helicopters were MI-8 type aircraft and one was an MI-17, all Russian-built transport helicopters.
On Sunday, Turkey said it had scrambled six F-16s near its border with Syria after similar transport helicopters were spotted flying either within 6.4km of the border or “close” to the border.
450 | sattv4u2 Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:37:29am |
re: #447 Simply Sarah
And I survive another instance of helping out in preparing for a party at my parents' house where my mom stresses the hell out over making sure there is enough food to feed at least three times as many guests as we will actually have and plans activities that people will never get to. Alas, my attempts to keep her more even-keeled this time did not seem to help much.
Her House
Her Party
Her Stress
(just sayin)
Just try to pitch in however/wherever she needs it most. Anything more than that just adds to the stress level
(taken from the BT/DT, learned my lesson files)
451 | Simply Sarah Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:42:18am |
re: #450 sattv4u2
Her House
Her Party
Her Stress(just sayin)
Just try to pitch in however/wherever she needs it most. Anything more than that just adds to the stress level
(taken from the BT/DT, learned my lesson files)
I do what I can to help or, if there is nothing I can assist in at the moment, stay out of the way. But it's not easy to not try to calm her down when she's caught up in trying to make everything perfect.
452 | sattv4u2 Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:44:00am |
re: #451 Simply Sarah
I do what I can to help or, if there is nothing I can assist in at the moment, stay out of the way. But it's not easy to not try to calm her down when she's caught up in trying to make everything perfect.
I'm sure it's not the 1st time she's done that (her personality, I'm guessing) and I'm also assuming she's survived all the other times
As stated, anything more just adds to the stress level.
453 | Simply Sarah Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:47:54am |
re: #452 sattv4u2
I'm sure it's not the 1st time she's done that (her personality, I'm guessing) and I'm also assuming she's survived all the other times
As stated, anything more just adds to the stress level.
She's always like this. That's the problem. I'm the same way, although way, way less so than I used to be. But I know what she's feeling and I know that I needed people to talk me down at times too.
454 | AK-47% Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:48:28am |
re: #447 Simply Sarah
Remember from sister-in-law's wedding in Scotland. It is a great tradition that the bride's family plans and throws the wedding celebrations.
But sis-in-law organized (or rather dis-organized) everything in her own personal style, but mom-in-law still somehow felt responsible for it all and was all apologetic for everything that was not up to (her) standards...
455 | sattv4u2 Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:52:06am |
re: #453 Simply Sarah
She's always like this. That's the problem. I'm the same way, although way, way less so than I used to be. But I know what she's feeling and I know that I needed people to talk me down at times too.
So here's what I do
Pick the battles
Whats the WORST case scenario in this one? She has lots of extra food left over?
Donate it to a shelter after the party. In fact, call shelters now and see what their policies are for left overs. Gives you something to do/ contribute that she'll end up being thankful for (after the party as she looks at all the leftovers and frets "what am I going to do with all this food",,,, TADA,, you to the rescue)
She has activities that will be ignored?
So,,, the other activities will be used. She'll be happy to see that
Not battles worth fretting over, imho
456 | Simply Sarah Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:54:28am |
re: #455 sattv4u2
So here's what I do
Pick the battles
Whats the WORST case scenario in this one? She has lots of extra food left over?
Donate it to a shelter after the party. In fact, call shelters now and see what their policies are for left overs. Gives you something to do/ contribute that she'll end up being thankful for (after the party as she looks at all the leftovers and frets "what am I going to do with all this food",,, TADA,, you to the rescue)She has activities that will be ignored?
So,,, the other activities will be used. She'll be happy to see thatNot battles worth fretting over, imho
I suppose. I just hate to see her stressed out!
457 | sattv4u2 Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:57:12am |
re: #456 Simply Sarah
I suppose. I just hate to see her stressed out!
I'm sure you do. But as you stated, it's part of her (and you) and she's survived other times like this
Trying to talk someone like that off the ledge at that time just adds to their stress from my experiences. Again, the "worst case" scenarios for this instance (extra food,, unused activities) aren't bad enough to add to that stress level by arguing about them beforehand
458 | Simply Sarah Mon, Jul 2, 2012 10:00:08am |
re: #457 sattv4u2
I'm sure you do. But as you stated, it's part of her (and you) and she's survived other times like this
Trying to talk someone like that off the ledge at that time just adds to their stress from my experiences. Again, the "worst case" scenarios for this instance (extra food,, unused activities) aren't bad enough to add to that stress level by arguing about them beforehand
Well, understand that part of my actions are the fact that I've really been able to mellow myself out the last few years. I sort of wish the same thing could happen with her, even though I understand I'm a different woman than my mom is. I just know that I'm way happier after learning to take things in stride a bit better (Well, and my entire life situation has also improved, but that's another story for another time).
459 | bernielomax Mon, Jul 2, 2012 10:01:08am |
hey everyone what to make of Stephen Moore stating that 75% of Ocare taxes fall on the middle class? It wont for me bcuz im a teacher and in the NEA. Are those " middle class" families going to have more money or less after payday? again im just wondering
460 | sattv4u2 Mon, Jul 2, 2012 10:01:40am |
re: #458 Simply Sarah
I'm way happier after learning to take things in stride a bit better
Then take this in stride
As I 1st stated
Her House
Her Party
Her Stress
461 | HappyWarrior Mon, Jul 2, 2012 10:01:49am |
re: #459 bernielomax
hey everyone what to make of Stephen Moore stating that 75% of Ocare taxes fall on the middle class? It wont for me bcuz im a teacher and in the NEA. Are those " middle class" families going to have more money or less after payday? again im just wondering
Stephen Moore? The Club for Growth guy? I'd take anything he says with a grain of salt honest.
462 | Charles Johnson Mon, Jul 2, 2012 10:02:28am |
Obvious troll gets more obvious by the minute.
463 | sattv4u2 Mon, Jul 2, 2012 10:02:39am |
And on that note, off to stimulate the economy!!!
464 | Eventual Carrion Mon, Jul 2, 2012 10:10:51am |
re: #459 bernielomax
hey everyone what to make of Stephen Moore stating that 75% of Ocare taxes fall on the middle class? It wont for me bcuz im a teacher and in the NEA. Are those " middle class" families going to have more money or less after payday? again im just wondering
Will the tax be more than $975.00 a month? If not, I will be saving money from what my insurance premiums (just premiums, not out of pocket deductibles that is added on) cost me now (which have been going up steadily for the last 7-8 years).
465 | Simply Sarah Mon, Jul 2, 2012 10:14:59am |
re: #460 sattv4u2
I'm way happier after learning to take things in stride a bit better
Then take this in stride
As I 1st stated
Her House
Her Party
Her Stress
Bah! :P
466 | A Mom Anon Mon, Jul 2, 2012 10:21:40am |
re: #459 bernielomax
Oh come on.
My son is autistic and just turned 18. If my husband and I were to have to go buy a stand alone policy just for him(medical and dental)it would run us around 10-12K a year. And that's a "cheap" plan with a high deductible. How the hell is that a good thing? Now we can keep him on our plan and not have an uninsured kid.
Steve Moore is a hack. He's a bought and paid for shill for the insurance industry. Go to healthcare.gov and read the damned thing and inform yourself.
467 | gwangung Mon, Jul 2, 2012 10:25:19am |
re: #459 bernielomax
hey everyone what to make of Stephen Moore stating that 75% of Ocare taxes fall on the middle class? It wont for me bcuz im a teacher and in the NEA. Are those " middle class" families going to have more money or less after payday? again im just wondering
Y'all don't read very much, can't do math and think we are all a bunch of idiots.
You'd do better by saying "evolution doesn't work!"