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468 comments

1 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:12:09pm

The new Obama campaign ad:

2 b_sharp  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:13:52pm

Nekid fun, there's nothing like it.

3 researchok  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:16:54pm

Good ad, smart to focus on the preexisting condition aspect of the ACA.

4 b_sharp  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:21:08pm

I think I'm going to take a nap.

BBL

5 jaunte  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:22:30pm

re: #1 Charles Johnson

The Republicans don't have an answer to that message.

McConnell Can’t Answer How GOP Will Insure Americans After Repealing ObamaCare: ‘That Is Not The Issue’

6 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:25:35pm
7 Targetpractice  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:28:28pm

"Dr. Orangelove, or: How I Learned To Stop Thinking And Love Dominionism."

8 Gus  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:28:34pm

re: #5 jaunte

The Republicans don't have an answer to that message.

McConnell Can’t Answer How GOP Will Insure Americans After Repealing ObamaCare: ‘That Is Not The Issue’

What a douche.

9 Aye Pod  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:29:02pm

Squarepusher!

Night all :)

10 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:29:56pm

re: #9 Aye Pod

Squarepusher!


[Video]

Night all :)

Night Jimmah. Say hi to ice for me.

11 Targetpractice  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:30:26pm

re: #5 jaunte

The Republicans don't have an answer to that message.

McConnell Can’t Answer How GOP Will Insure Americans After Repealing ObamaCare: ‘That Is Not The Issue’

To address an issue, you first have to acknowledge it exists. And the GOP seem bound and determined to avoid acknowledging that our healthcare system is broken. A system where the rich have unfettered access to the best care and the poor are left to rely upon a patchwork of charities, the social safety net, and whatever they can scrape together is only a problem in their minds in that there's a safety net at all.

12 jaunte  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:31:58pm

re: #11 Targetpractice

I don't see how interstate competition for insurance companies is going to help insure the poor and higher-risk citizens.

13 gwangung  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:33:04pm

re: #11 Targetpractice

To address an issue, you first have to acknowledge it exists. And the GOP seem bound and determined to avoid acknowledging that our healthcare system is broken. A system where the rich have unfettered access to the best care and the poor are left to rely upon a patchwork of charities, the social safety net, and whatever they can scrape together is only a problem in their minds in that there's a safety net at all.

And folks in the middle are rapidly being pushed towards the cliff...

14 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:33:46pm

re: #1 Charles Johnson

The new Obama campaign ad:

[Embedded content]

Could be a big winner of an ad if the facts check out. She says she was 26 when diagnosed and my first skim through google shows that although the changes took effect in 2010 it was only for people under 19

Effective September 2010, children (below age 19) with pre-existing conditions may not be denied access to their parents' health plan and insurance companies will no longer be allowed to insure a child, but exclude treatments for that child's pre-existing condition.

Starting in 2014, this provision will apply to adults as well. Until 2014, the information below remains valid for anyone over age 19.

Did she actually benefit from healthcare reform?

15 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:34:50pm

OT staying with peeps who have 1st class kitchen tools. Out of my realm. Sliced my thumb like the potato I was a slicing. Ewe. Luckily I felt it and stopped it before my thumb skin became Part of the salad.

I am stuck on bandaid cause bandaid's stuck on me!

16 Gus  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:35:43pm

re: #15 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012

OT staying with peeps who have 1st class kitchen tools. Out of my realm. Sliced my thumb like the potato I was a slicing. Ewe. Luckily I felt it and stopped it before my thumb skin became Part of the salad.

I am stuck on bandaid cause bandaid's stuck on me!

That's like a typical day at Arby's.

//

17 Targetpractice  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:36:00pm

re: #12 jaunte

I don't see how interstate competition for insurance companies is going to help insure the poor and higher-risk citizens.

It's not, and anybody who says it is has been suckered by the insurance companies into buying their bullshit. One of the biggest bitching points of the GOP about ACA has been that the Feds, through HHS, can set minimum requirements on health insurance policies. Without such requirements, interstate "competition" is just going to see all the insurance companies set up shop in the state with the fewest regulations, then sell bare-bones policies that cover virtually nothing but will offer plenty of "upgrades."

18 jaunte  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:36:26pm
19 bernielomax  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:38:47pm

how come congress and judges are exempt from this wonderful O-care? Please tell me im misinformed so ill feel a lil better about this, i mean the way it was passed was ridiculous

20 Targetpractice  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:40:13pm

re: #19 bernielomax

how come congress and judges are exempt from this wonderful O-care? Please tell me im misinformed so ill feel a lil better about this, i mean the way it was passed was ridiculous

They're exempt because the wrote the law so that they were. That was one of the big boondoggles of its drafting, when it came out that they'd written in exemptions for themselves so they could keep their Cadillac care on the taxpayer dime. The suggestion was made that they could keep it until the exchanges were up and running, but it got deep-sixed.

21 Gus  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:41:04pm

re: #19 bernielomax

how come congress and judges are exempt from this wonderful O-care? Please tell me im misinformed so ill feel a lil better about this, i mean the way it was passed was ridiculous

Falling on the knife with your fist comment?

22 bernielomax  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:43:35pm

re: #20 Targetpractice

so if thats the case, dont people see the " do as I say,not as I do mentality"? LMAO that raises concerns.. again the way it was passed wasnt right either IMHO

23 Targetpractice  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:44:30pm

re: #22 bernielomax

so if thats the case, dont people see the " do as I say,not as I do mentality"? LMAO that raises concerns.. again the way it was passed wasnt right either IMHO

What do you mean by "wasn't right"?

24 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:44:44pm

re: #19 bernielomax

how come congress and judges are exempt from this wonderful O-care? Please tell me im misinformed so ill feel a lil better about this, i mean the way it was passed was ridiculous

Politifact says you're misinformed.

[Link: www.politifact.com...]

You feel any better?

25 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:45:09pm

Looks like we acquired a wingnut.

26 bernielomax  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:45:26pm

re: #21 Gus

lol maybe I did fall on it~ Chris Farley style... but cmon both partys have major issues, I would think most here agree on that

27 jaunte  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:46:15pm

Congress Exempt from Health Bill?

Q: Does the health care bill specifically exempt members of Congress and their staffs from its provisions?

A: No. This twisted claim is based on misrepresentations of the House and Senate bills, neither of which exempts lawmakers.

28 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:46:41pm

The French Girl

'Nite, all. You too, above the border.

29 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:46:54pm

re: #25 Charles Johnson

Looks like we acquired a wingnut.

It's a little hot outside for a barbecue, but I'll get the grill warmed up just the same. What seasoning do we want tonight?

30 Targetpractice  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:47:45pm

re: #27 jaunte

Congress Exempt from Health Bill?

Huh, learn something new everyday. Thanks for that.

31 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:48:16pm

Hit several threads already with wingnut pushback.

32 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:48:23pm

re: #14 Killgore Trout

Could be a big winner of an ad if the facts check out. She says she was 26 when diagnosed and my first skim through google shows that although the changes took effect in 2010 it was only for people under 19

Did she actually benefit from healthcare reform?

The section you linked to specifically pertains to adding children to their parent's plan:

Effective September 2010, children (below age 19) with pre-existing conditions may not be denied access to their parents' health plan and insurance companies will no longer be allowed to insure a child, but exclude treatments for that child's pre-existing condition.

That's not what happened in this case, she bought PCIP insurance through Ohio's program, because Ohio has already complied with this aspect of the law. PCIP insurance is set up to cover citizens who have been diagnosed with a pre-existing condition and been uninsured for six months prior to their application.

Since she's from Ohio I'll direct you to the healthcare.gov PCIP Ohio page.

If she lived in Texas she'd would have had to apply to the federal PCIP program.

33 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:48:30pm

re: #29 thedopefishlives

It's a little hot outside for a barbecue, but I'll get the grill warmed up just the same. What seasoning do we want tonight?

Allspice. It always gets me compliments from the hippies cycling past my house.

34 [deleted]  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:48:37pm
35 bernielomax  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:49:36pm

re: #25 Charles Johnson

no sir

36 Amory Blaine  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:50:57pm

Yay. Now we get to spend time refuting false talking points!!!
That never gets tiring.

Barf*

38 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:51:14pm
39 Digital Display  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:51:19pm

re: #35 bernielomax

no sir

Today is your first day here..Welcome..Tell us something about yourself..

40 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:52:00pm

re: #32 goddamnedfrank

The section you linked to specifically pertains to adding children to their parents plans:

That's not what happened in this case, she bough PCIP insurance through Ohio's program, because Ohio has already complied with this aspect of the law. PCIP insurance is set up to cover citizens who have been diagnosed with a pre-existing condition and been uninsured for six months prior to their application.

Since she's from Ohio I'll direct you to the PCIP Ohio page.

If she lived in Texas she'd would have had to apply to the federal PCIP program.

Ok, good info but was her access to insurance helped by Obamacare? I'm not seeing when the rules changed.

41 bernielomax  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:52:03pm

re: #31 Charles Johnson

omg , i was just posting a few times... I think both partys got issues. and I do think drudge is more center than msnbc. that makes me a wingnut?

42 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:52:35pm

re: #36 Amory Blaine

Yay. Now we get to spend time refuting false talking points!!!
That never gets tiring.

Barf*

I sometimes find it therapeutic. This is why I hang out at JREF.

43 bernielomax  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:52:57pm

re: #38 Charles Johnson

lol thats why I used the name, its a classic cheesey 80s movie

44 Amory Blaine  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:53:47pm

re: #41 bernielomax

omg , i was just posting a few times... I think both partys got issues. and I do think drudge is more center than msnbc. that makes me a wingnut?

You also think:

congress and judges are exempt from this wonderful O-care? Please tell me im misinformed so ill feel a lil better about this, i mean the way it was passed was ridiculous

45 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:54:03pm

re: #41 bernielomax

omg , i was just posting a few times... I think both partys got issues. and I do think drudge is more center than msnbc. that makes me a wingnut?

By community standards: Probably yes. I see them as different sorts of garbage but you can lump them together if you wish.

46 bernielomax  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:56:11pm

re: #45 Killgore Trout

lol what about by your standards?

47 Amory Blaine  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:56:23pm

re: #25 Charles Johnson

Looks like we acquired a wingnut.

Can we keep'm paw? Can we??!!?

48 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:57:11pm

re: #46 bernielomax

lol what about by your standards?

I see them as different sorts of garbage but you can lump them together if you wish.

49 bernielomax  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:57:11pm

re: #44 Amory Blaine

i know, I dont think that is a "wingnut " statement

50 blueraven  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:57:38pm

re: #43 bernielomax

lol thats why I used the name, its a classic cheesey 80s movie

So are you going to stop with the ridiculous assertion that congress is exempt from ACA, now that you have seen two separate fact checking organizations say it is false?

51 bernielomax  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:57:56pm

re: #47 Amory Blaine

yes, dont get me wet or feed me after midnight

52 Amory Blaine  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:58:08pm

Congress being exempt is a favorite wingnut talking point.

53 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:58:25pm

re: #47 Amory Blaine

Can we keep'm paw? Can we??!!?

OK, for a little while. But you know how they are.

54 bernielomax  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 6:59:49pm

re: #50 blueraven

I asked a question about it. I didnt post it as a fact

55 blueraven  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:00:27pm

re: #54 bernielomax

I asked a question about it. I didnt post it as a fact

lol...you are just asking questions. Got it.

56 Gus  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:00:41pm

Reading you 5x5 now.

57 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:01:00pm

re: #56 Gus

Reading you 5x5 now.

3/4 mile, call the ball.

58 bernielomax  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:01:18pm

re: #55 blueraven

well im glad you got it , because im not posting it as fact...

59 Gus  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:01:42pm

re: #57 thedopefishlives

3/4 mile, call the ball.

Going in.

60 Gus  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:02:49pm

I already called the ball. ;)

61 Amory Blaine  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:03:28pm

re: #54 bernielomax

I asked a question about it. I didnt post it as a fact

Your Question:

how come congress and judges are exempt from this wonderful O-care?

In the question you state as fact that Congress is exempt. The only question is "how come". If your fact is wrong, your question of it has no meaning.

62 bernielomax  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:03:53pm

Charles, thanks for allowing me to join lgf ... gnitte to all

63 blueraven  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:04:28pm

re: #58 bernielomax

well im glad you got it , because im not posting it as fact...

You are no fun at all, not very witty and not well informed.

64 bernielomax  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:05:32pm

re: #61 Amory Blaine

yes, you are right... I just meant to ask a question, but I now see your point about how it came off. believe me I feel better having known now

65 blueraven  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:06:20pm

low information voters

66 Kronocide  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:08:01pm

re: #41 bernielomax

omg , i was just posting a few times... I think both partys got issues. and I do think drudge is more center than msnbc. that makes me a wingnut?

Yep, that's just nuts. You're a wingnut.

67 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:09:32pm

I hate 9/11 Twoofers sometimes. NIST released some errata to their WTC 7 report; and already the Twoofers are crowing that it validates their "NIST's conclusion is physically impossible" meme, when in reality, the errata explicitly states that the errors are only typographical and did not affect the actual calculations. Confirmation bias raised to an art form.

68 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:10:20pm

re: #40 Killgore Trout

Ok, good info but was her access to insurance helped by Obamacare? I'm not seeing when the rules changed.

It appears that PCIP went into effect on July 1, 2010

Corroborated by the deadline listed in the CFDA data page on the program.

69 bernielomax  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:11:30pm

re: #63 blueraven

yea its hard to be fun and wity when your asking for info on legislation. not well informed? thats a quick judgement but on my knowlege of that topic I was not well informed........ thank god for Capt Hindsight

70 bernielomax  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:11:45pm

re: #66 Kronocide

really?

71 bratwurst  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:12:03pm

re: #62 bernielomax

Charles, thanks for allowing me to join lgf ... gnitte to all

Sleep tight...don't let The New Black Panthers bite.

72 Gus  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:12:31pm

Concert night. Lots of high people.

73 Gus  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:12:59pm

re: #71 bratwurst

Sleep tight...don't let The New Black Panthers bite.

All 12 of them?

74 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:13:12pm

re: #46 bernielomax

lol what about by your standards?

After reconsidering I think I'll give that a serious answer because it's something I've been thinking about lately. Drudge is a link whore and not much else. Glenn Beck isn't actually insane but he's learned to push the right buttons. Rush Limbaugh is similar. They are paid to say stupid shit to get stupid people to listen. MSNBC isn't that much different. Al Sharpton beleives what he says, but he's a moron. Chris Mathews is a moron but I'm not sure he believes what he says. Bashir, Lawrence O'Donnell, and the rest of them are just collecting paychecks. Their beliefs or intelligence are immaterial. Out of the whole cast of idiots I suspect Maddow and Hannity of being more intelligent, nuanced and interesting than their on air personalities allow. Their paychecks come from spewing partisan nonsense but I suspect them of being intelligent humans.

75 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:13:26pm

re: #73 Gus

All 12 of them?

OOGA BOOGA.

76 Gus  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:15:10pm

re: #75 thedopefishlives

OOGA BOOGA.

I must prepare and be ready for them! I must also do a refresher on my rope knots and to give thanks to an inanimate and yet unknown but accepted object.

//

77 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:15:20pm

re: #74 Killgore Trout

Killgore, I'm going to disagree with you on one thing. Glenn Beck may be borderline insane, but Rush Limbaugh is clearly on the other side of that line. Whether he was always that way or not, he has certainly jumped the shark since Obama's election.

78 bratwurst  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:15:46pm

re: #74 Killgore Trout

Out of the whole cast of idiots I suspect Maddow and Hannity of being more intelligent, nuanced and interesting than their on air personalities allow. Their paychecks come from spewing partisan nonsense but I suspect them of being intelligent humans.

Way to compare a high school graduate to a Rhodes Scholar.

79 teresa  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:16:36pm

re: #19 bernielomax

I know I shouldn't bother, but I am going let you in on a little secret, Obamacare is FEHBP for the nation. Sheesh, that is what Senators, congresspeople and federal employees already receive. In other words, more plainly, FEHBP is the model for PPACA.

*(FEHBP, Federal Employee Health Benefits Plan)

80 bernielomax  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:16:55pm

re: #73 Gusre: #73 Gus

re: #73 Gus
so its ok what they said? threats vs anyone is ugly and should not be tolerated

81 bernielomax  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:17:32pm

re: #74 Killgore Trout

great post , thanks for your opinion

82 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:21:30pm

re: #77 thedopefishlives

Killgore, I'm going to disagree with you on one thing. Glenn Beck may be borderline insane, but Rush Limbaugh is clearly on the other side of that line. Whether he was always that way or not, he has certainly jumped the shark since Obama's election.

I'll politely disagree. Radio guys have a lot of time to fill. Even Alex Jones doesn't really believe all the crap he says, he's just filling time between commercial breaks. Glenn Beck and Rush are pretty similar, they're just spewing red meat to the faithful between commercial breaks until their shift is over. If you were to magically view Beck and Limbaugh's portfolios they are invested in GM, Treasury bonds, Solar panel companies, windfarms, etc. They are just fleecing the flock. If they really believed what they are saying they would have fled the country with a suitcase of gold bars five years ago. They are paid in real dollars for long term contracts.

83 blueraven  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:23:06pm

re: #74 Killgore Trout

After reconsidering I think I'll give that a serious answer because it's something I've been thinking about lately. Drudge is a link whore and not much else. Glenn Beck isn't actually insane but he's learned to push the right buttons. Rush Limbaugh is similar. They are paid to say stupid shit to get stupid people to listen. MSNBC isn't that much different. Al Sharpton beleives what he says, but he's a moron. Chris Mathews is a moron but I'm not sure he believes what he says. Bashir, Lawrence O'Donnell, and the rest of them are just collecting paychecks. Their beliefs or intelligence are immaterial. Out of the whole cast of idiots I suspect Maddow and Hannity of being more intelligent, nuanced and interesting than their on air personalities allow. Their paychecks come from spewing partisan nonsense but I suspect them of being intelligent humans.

Seriously? Hannity who repeats the same inane and mostly debunked talking points every single day.

84 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:23:39pm

re: #83 blueraven

Seriously? Hannity who repeats the same inane and mostly debunked talking points every single day.

Yeah, that's the guy

85 Kronocide  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:23:54pm

re: #74 Killgore Trout

Out of the whole cast of idiots I suspect Maddow and Hannity of being more intelligent, nuanced and interesting than their on air personalities allow. Their paychecks come from spewing partisan nonsense but I suspect them of being intelligent humans.

Maddow spews partisan nonsense in a similar fashion/scale as Hannity?

Wow.

86 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:24:17pm

re: #82 Killgore Trout

I think Rush is a difficult case to judge because he spews a lot of sarcastic crap along with some things that he genuinely believes. Separating the two is difficult at best, especially when he goes on one of his deliberate race- or sex-baiting ratings-booster rants.

87 Gus  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:26:30pm

re: #80 bernielomax

re: #73 Gus

re: #73 Gus
so its ok what they said? threats vs anyone is ugly and should not be tolerated

Sorry. I was outside. You were saying?

88 Kronocide  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:28:03pm

It's a serous mistake to say these guys just say it for the money but don't really believe it.

No, they really believe the crap they say. Because they have a lot of time to fill, have big $ contracts to do what they've been doing, the ego is fully green lighted to be itself. They really believe their inane BS.

This is not something that can be faked or made up. They absolutely believe their nutty bullshit, all of it. They evangelize their world view and validate themselves not on the veracity or facts of what they say, but on their ratings. It's totally corrupt.

89 blueraven  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:29:32pm

re: #88 Kronocide

It's a serous mistake to say these guys just say it for the money but don't really believe it.

No, they really believe the crap they say. Because they have a lot of time to fill, have big $ contracts to do what they've been doing, the ego is fully green lighted to be itself. They really believe their inane BS.

This is not something that can be faked or made up. They absolutely believe their nutty bullshit, all of it. They evangelize their world view and validate themselves not on the veracity or facts of what they say, but on their ratings. It's totally corrupt.

I agree. And if they dont believe what they say, isn't that even worse?

90 engineer cat  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:32:23pm

does anybody know if rush is still suffering reduced ad revenues?

91 Gus  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:33:57pm

I have no further comment for the duration.

92 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:35:30pm

re: #86 thedopefishlives

I think Rush is a difficult case to judge because he spews a lot of sarcastic crap along with some things that he genuinely believes. Separating the two is difficult at best, especially when he goes on one of his deliberate race- or sex-baiting ratings-booster rants.

All of these people are hard to judge. They develop personas to collect paychecks, there's no telling what they really believe.

93 bratwurst  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:37:09pm

re: #90 engineer cat

does anybody know if rush is still suffering reduced ad revenues?

Judging by listening 20 minutes at a time a few times per week, I can tell you that there are still some PSAs running during the breaks.

Anyone interested in keeping the heat on is invited to drop a line to the nice people at Angie's List. I heard Rush do a live read for them on Thursday, so it is clearly not a case where they can feign ignorance over their association with America's most prominent misogynist.

94 b_sharp  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:38:28pm

re: #42 thedopefishlives

I sometimes find it therapeutic. This is why I hang out at JREF.

What's the best forum at JREF for arguments?

95 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:38:36pm

re: #88 Kronocide

It's a serous mistake to say these guys just say it for the money but don't really believe it.

No, they really believe the crap they say. Because they have a lot of time to fill, have big $ contracts to do what they've been doing, the ego is fully green lighted to be itself. They really believe their inane BS.

This is not something that can be faked or made up. They absolutely believe their nutty bullshit, all of it. They evangelize their world view and validate themselves not on the veracity or facts of what they say, but on their ratings. It's totally corrupt.

Give me a paycheck and I'll tell you what you want to hear. What do you want? Anti-Islam? Moonbat leftist? Ordinary Wingnut? It's not hard, fill my bank account and I'll hook you up.

96 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:38:49pm

re: #74 Killgore Trout

How about your opinion of yourself? Why leave it out?

Hannity equated with Maddow on intelligence!! You must be kidding.

97 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:39:18pm

re: #94 b_sharp

What's the best forum at JREF for arguments?

Depends what you want to argue. I hang out in the Conspiracy Theories section; there's a sub-forum specific to 9/11, and the rest of it covers things like chemtrails, Holocaust denial, anti-vaxxers, just about anything you can name that has a conspiracy associated with it. There are other forums for science, religion, etc.

98 Gus  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:39:27pm

We need to streamline the planning process.

99 engineer cat  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:39:46pm

i find it hard to believe that rush believes in anything except that he's still pissed off at his father for calling him a dumb overweight loser

100 Gus  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:40:21pm

Carry on.

101 Kronocide  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:40:50pm

re: #98 Gus

We need to streamline the planning process.

You need to optimize your core competencies.

102 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:41:34pm

re: #101 Kronocide

You need to optimize your core competencies.

Buzzword Bingo!

103 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:42:04pm

re: #96 Achilles Tang

How about your opinion of yourself? Why leave it out?

I'm center left by American standards. A bit to the left of President Obama. I get no money from the shit I say so it's safe to rule out that as a motivating factor. This is it, no more, no less.

104 Kronocide  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:42:10pm

We need somebody who can keep all the plates spinning.

105 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:43:19pm

re: #97 thedopefishlives

Depends what you want to argue. I hang out in the Conspiracy Theories section; there's a sub-forum specific to 9/11, and the rest of it covers things like chemtrails, Holocaust denial, anti-vaxxers, just about anything you can name that has a conspiracy associated with it. There are other forums for science, religion, etc.

Seriously? The conspiracy section? Don't you get bored with people bringing up the melting point of steel, or UFO's, or whatever for the umpteenth time? I almost never went there when I was a regular.

The only original conspiracies worth considering are the ones relating to the politics of the day, and those are politics as usual, not really conspiracies as such.

106 Gus  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:44:00pm
107 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:44:15pm

re: #104 Kronocide

We need somebody who can keep all the plates spinning.

I can't hear you over the sounds of porcelain breaking. Check back later.

108 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:45:53pm

re: #94 b_sharp

What's the best forum at JREF for arguments?

The politics section. I haven't been for some time, but there are some radical left jerks there and the moderators can make it seem like kindergarten sometimes, so you can't call a spade a spade when called for.

109 b_sharp  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:46:31pm

re: #91 Gus

I have no further comment for the duration.

Time's up.

110 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:47:00pm

re: #105 Achilles Tang

Seriously? The conspiracy section? Don't you get bored with people bringing up the melting point of steel, or UFO's, or whatever for the umpteenth time? I almost never went there when I was a regular.

The only original conspiracies worth considering are the ones relating to the politics of the day, and those are politics as usual, not really conspiracies as such.

Honestly, I kinda filter out the repetitive trash. I actually mostly stick around because I love reading the posts by real experts: Ryan Mackey (master 9/11 debunker), Jay Windley (aerospace engineer and consummate moon-hoax debunker), and Nick Terry (co-author of a Holocaust paper with our own Sergey Romanov), just to name a few. There are a few occasions when some nutter brings a new argument, but mostly I only jump in when I'm really bored and in the mood for a punching bag.

111 engineer cat  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:47:00pm

re: #101 Kronocide

You need to optimize your core competencies.

right after i grow synergistic teams

112 Gus  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:47:34pm

re: #109 b_sharp

Time's up.

Crap. What the hell am I going to do without my worldwind advisor?

113 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:47:51pm

re: #43 bernielomax

lol thats why I used the name, its a classic cheesey 80s movie

Here's some music from 1989 to go with the movie:

And another:

114 Gus  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:47:54pm

Look out! Skandal's all pissed off.

115 jaunte  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:49:56pm

re: #101 Kronocide

You need to optimize your core competencies.

We'll maximize productive cross-disciplinary collaboration.

116 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:50:08pm

re: #110 thedopefishlives

There are a few occasions when some nutter brings a new argument, but mostly I only jump in when I'm really bored and in the mood for a punching bag.

Try WND if you want punching bags. It's a swarm.

You mention Sergey. I saw a reference to his absence recently. Has he been heard from?

117 b_sharp  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:50:50pm

re: #112 Gus

Crap. What the hell am I going to do without my worldwind advisor?

Advertise on twitter.

118 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:50:58pm

re: #116 Achilles Tang

Try WND if you want punching bags. It's a swarm.

You mention Sergey. I saw a reference to his absence recently. Has he been heard from?

Yeah, but that kind of nuttery would likely only raise my blood pressure to unsafe levels.

119 Gus  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:51:17pm

Copy.

120 b_sharp  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:51:44pm

re: #116 Achilles Tang

Try WND if you want punching bags. It's a swarm.

You mention Sergey. I saw a reference to his absence recently. Has he been heard from?

I second the question.

121 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:52:26pm

re: #116 Achilles Tang

re: #120 b_sharp

Not that I am aware of. I would certainly like to be on the notification list should such a sighting occur.

122 jaunte  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:53:02pm

Mexican old guard leads, ruling party concedes

Presidential candidate Enrique Pena Nieto led Mexico's elections with about 40 percent of the vote, exit polls showed Sunday, signaling a return of his long-ruling party to power after a 12-year hiatus.

123 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:53:11pm

re: #94 b_sharp

What's the best forum at JREF for arguments?

Room 12A.

124 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 7:55:14pm

FYI:

Since we've now shown that PCIP went into effect on July 1, 2010, there should be zero doubt that Erica's claims in the Obama ad are true.

125 jaunte  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:00:58pm

Report: Romney's family vacation is mandatory

...The Post says the family activities include competitive triathlons, football-throwing contests and challenges to see who can hang on a pole the longest.

There's either a Festivus joke or a bat joke in there somewhere.

126 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:01:59pm

Mark Twain: Corn-pone Opinions

"You tell me whar a man gits his corn pone, en I'll tell you what his 'pinions is."

127 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:03:00pm

1. It was his idea that a man conforms to the majority view of his locality by calculation and intention. This happens, but I think it is not the rule.

2. It was his idea that there is such a thing as a first-hand opinion; an original opinion; an opinion which is coldly reasoned out in a man's head, by a searching analysis of the facts involved, with the heart unconsulted, and the jury room closed against outside influences. It may be that such an opinion has been born somewhere, at some time or other, but I suppose it got away before they could catch it and stuff it and put it in the museum.

128 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:04:45pm

re: #125 jaunte

Report: Romney's family vacation is mandatory

There's either a Festivus joke or a bat joke in there somewhere.

Eh, don't worry about it. Keeping a family together is hard work and mitt Romney seems to do a good job of it.

129 Gus  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:06:05pm

I don't feel the need to respond to everything.

130 jaunte  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:07:48pm

re: #128 Dark_Falcon

I'll have to try the pole-hanging contest.

131 Kragar  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:08:12pm

re: #125 jaunte

Report: Romney's family vacation is mandatory

There's either a Festivus joke or a bat joke in there somewhere.

I'm picturing the seen from Soldier where the guys in Humvees are watching the kids run.

132 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:09:47pm

re: #131 Kragar

Over the line, way over. Downding.

133 Kragar  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:10:46pm

re: #132 Dark_Falcon

Over the line, way over. Downding.

OK, the chain fight then.

134 Gus  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:11:44pm

You know I always let right wingers speak.

135 Mocking Jay  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:12:04pm

Mississippi Abortion Law Temporarily Blocked By Federal Judge

Tyrants in black robes all up in this place.

136 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:12:29pm

G'night Lizardim. See most of you in the morning hours.

137 Gus  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:13:22pm

I won't stop them. They can prove themselves.

138 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:14:38pm

re: #133 Kragar

OK, the chain fight then.

Why would those scenes occur to you at all. Why not some family reunion comedy?

Mitt Romney's not some soulless monster, geez.

139 Gus  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:15:22pm
140 Kragar  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:15:46pm

re: #138 Dark_Falcon

Why would those scenes occur to you at all. Why not some family reunion comedy?

Mitt Romney's not some soulless monster, geez.

Sports are involved.

141 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:17:16pm

re: #140 Kragar

Sports are involved.

Wait. The Romneys get competitive physically, and it's bad.

The Kennedys get competitive physically, and it's....what?

Sheesh.

And I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be disowned if they failed to show up.

142 jaunte  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:18:21pm

re: #141 Mostly sane, most of the time.

I don't think it's bad, I just think the image of the family competitively hanging from a pole is funny.

143 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:18:41pm

My "Deep Thought" contribution for today:

In a sane and logical world wouldn't it be the men rather than the women who rode horses sidesaddle? (Think about it)

/

144 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:18:59pm

re: #140 Kragar

Sports are involved.

Sports are involved when the Bush family gets together, and they were involved when the Kennedy brothers came together as well, to say nothing of Teddy Roosevelt and his very active family. All that means is that Mitt Romney is walking a path trod by a good number of men who have been elected president and its a good path for families with that many sons, too.

145 Kragar  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:19:21pm

re: #141 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Wait. The Romneys get competitive physically, and it's bad.

The Kennedys get competitive physically, and it's...what?

Still bad.

146 blueraven  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:19:47pm

re: #141 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Wait. The Romneys get competitive physically, and it's bad.

The Kennedys get competitive physically, and it's...what?

Sheesh.

And I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be disowned if they failed to show up.

Yes, I certainly dont see any problem with a family vacation.
The left shouldn't get all crazy and demonize every thing this guy does like the right does with Obama.

Come on, its a family vacation.

147 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:19:59pm

re: #142 jaunte

I don't think it's bad, I just think the image of the family competitively hanging from a pole is funny.

My family engages in competitive chocolate eating. My older sister wins, usually.

148 engineer cat  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:20:46pm

[politician's families] get competative physically

tmi

149 Kragar  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:20:56pm

The idea of a triathlon for a family vacation sounds about as much fun as a hot pepper sauce enema.

150 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:21:07pm

re: #146 blueraven

Yes, I certainly dont see any problem with a family vacation.
The left shouldn't get all crazy and demonize every thing this guy does like the right does with Obama.

Come on, its a family vacation.

Look at the picture. Look at the place where they are forced to vacation. How could any reasonable person be expected to stay there, swim and boat in the lake, and talk to their relations.

It's inhuman, I tell you, just inhuman.

151 Mocking Jay  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:21:56pm

re: #149 Kragar

The idea of a triathlon for a family vacation sounds about as much fun as a hot pepper sauce enema.

Hey, you'll never know until you try.

Uh, the triathlon, I mean...

152 engineer cat  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:22:03pm

re: #149 Kragar

The idea of a triathlon for a family vacation sounds about as much fun as a hot pepper sauce enema.

some people's idea of vacations involve early rising and strenuous activity

mine do not

153 blueraven  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:23:21pm

re: #150 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Look at the picture. Look at the place where they are forced to vacation. How could any reasonable person be expected to stay there, swim and boat in the lake, and talk to their relations.

It's inhuman, I tell you, just inhuman.

Looks pretty nice! I would love to vaca with my family there!
Although to tell the truth we do very similar when we can, on a bit smaller scale.

154 Mattand  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:23:59pm

re: #123 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Room 12A.

[Embedded content]

I'm going to flex my comedy psychic powers and guess this video stars Michael Paline and John Clesse, with a cameo by Graham Chapman.

155 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:25:40pm

re: #141 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Wait. The Romneys get competitive physically, and it's bad.

The Kennedys get competitive physically, and it's...what?

Sheesh.

And I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be disowned if they failed to show up.

I am just eternally grateful my family thinks drinking wine and cracking jokes is a sport.

156 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:25:50pm

re: #149 Kragar

The idea of a triathlon for a family vacation sounds about as much fun as a hot pepper sauce enema.

Just don't say that to Mitt Romney. Because he's got enough money to find extreme pepper sauces, ones so hot they make the spoon's metal soften. And those would be the sauces used on you.

157 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:27:55pm

re: #155 SanFranciscoZionist

I am just eternally grateful my family thinks drinking wine and cracking jokes is a sport.

Yeah, talking until way too late and eating too much food. Sounds good.

158 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:27:58pm

re: #154 Mattand

I'm going to flex my comedy psychic powers and guess this video stars Michael Paline and John Clesse, with a cameo by Graham Chapman.

And you would be correct. Though the updated version would have US political radio in Room 12.

159 Mocking Jay  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:30:01pm

So I just stumbled across the "salt and ice challenge" and am now convinced that we are getting dumber as a species.

160 Kragar  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:31:30pm

re: #159 It's a cookbook!

So I just stumbled across the "salt and ice challenge" and am now convinced that we are getting dumber as a species.

Makes you want to eat a spoonful of cinnamon and get it all over with.

161 Mattand  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:31:57pm

re: #135 It's a cookbook!

Mississippi Abortion Law Temporarily Blocked By Federal Judge

Tyrants in black robes all up in this place.

Judge in question is Daniel Jordan. Appointed by W, no less.

Let me repeat that: a judge who was appointed by Bush 43 is blocking a restrictive abortion law.

Suck on it, wingnuts.

162 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:33:05pm

re: #161 Mattand

Judge in question is Daniel Jordan. Appointed by W, no less.

Let me repeat that: a judge who was appointed by Bush 43 is blocking a restrictive abortion law.

Suck on it, wingnuts.

The law was so blatant that it could only be found in Mississippi.

163 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:34:33pm

re: #161 Mattand

Judge in question is Daniel Jordan. Appointed by W, no less.

Let me repeat that: a judge who was appointed by Bush 43 is blocking a restrictive abortion law.

Suck on it, wingnuts.

That's another talking point I find distasteful. This immediate assumption by so many that an appointed judge is by default simply the idealogical lackey of the President/party that appointed him.

164 Mattand  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:36:29pm

re: #162 Dark_Falcon

The law was so blatant that it could only be found in Mississippi.

I cannot, for the life of me, figure out my fellow Americans sometimes. MS is the same state that rejected a personhood law that would have ended abortion right then and there. Yet the Governor pushes this clearly anti-Constitutional nonsense.

165 palomino  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:37:10pm

Healthcare in the US is really a pretty simple philosophical question when boiled down: do you think it's a right or a privilege, and does the govt have a role?

On one hand, we have the following countries who see it as a right, and proclaim a healthy citizenry as a national responsibility: Canada, Japan, S. Korea, most of Europe, Israel, Australia, New Zealand, etc.

On the other hand are countries like Mexico, Brazil, India, Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia (countries that either can't afford it or don't see their citizens as worthy). So we have a simple choice: do we want to be like the rest of the developed world, or do we want to be like Brazil, India and Iran, among many others?

166 palomino  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:38:03pm

re: #162 Dark_Falcon

The law was so blatant that it could only be found in Mississippi.

Have you bothered to look at similar laws in AL, TN, SC, TX, even MI?

167 Mattand  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:38:53pm

re: #163 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

That's another talking point I find distasteful. This immediate assumption by so many that an appointed judge is by default simply the idealogical lackey of the President/party that appointed him.

Yeah, the judge clearly states in the article that precedent comes first. It does restore my faith that some of these guys are putting rule of law above party.

Although I have to admit I wonder what it was that Bush saw in this guy in the first place. W wasn't shy about being anti-abortion.

168 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:39:19pm

re: #164 Mattand

I cannot, for the life of me, figure out my fellow Americans sometimes. MS is the same state that rejected a personhood law that would have ended abortion right then and there. Yet the Governor pushes this clearly anti-Constitutional nonsense.

This law was narrowly targeted at abortion, the personhood law would have had more far reaching consequences. Hence the difference

169 Mattand  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:44:13pm

re: #168 Dark_Falcon

This law was narrowly targeted at abortion, the personhood law would have had more far reaching consequences. Hence the difference

True, but I would imagine the MS GOP would be fine with said consequences. As long as Teh Babbys are being saved, I'm guessing they're okay with any collateral damage.

170 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:51:49pm

re: #169 Mattand

True, but I would imagine the MS GOP would be fine with said consequences. As long as Teh Babbys are being saved, I'm guessing they're okay with any collateral damage.

The rank and file might have been, but the personhood law implications scared a number of conservative legal scholars who called attention to it's problems. They did this loudly enough to get the state's GOP elites to turn on the personhood law.

171 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:52:37pm

re: #162 Dark_Falcon

The law was so blatant that it could only be found in Mississippi.

Or maybe Kansas. :)

172 sagehen  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 8:57:40pm

re: #122 jaunte

Mexican old guard leads, ruling party concedes

Um... is that good?

I know nothing about Mexican political parties.

173 jaunte  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:03:08pm

re: #172 sagehen

I don't know; it may be a sign that they're going back to the older, quieter corrupt system, and giving up the shooting war on the cartels.

174 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:05:44pm

Been fighting with a 10 year old laptop all day. I got gifted an old Dell Lattitude C640. Decent enough machine for it's time - seriously needs more ram & a bigger disk but it's amazing how well FreeBSD & OpenLook can run on it once windows is wiped away. Even finally got a wireless PCCard working. Opera's not too bad though with only 256mb right now LGF just sends it thrashing :D Hopefully I can get a gig (max supported) or two (works unofficially). Supposedly I can drop in a faster Mobile P4 into it as well (1.8ghz now) though I'll do the ram & disk thing first.

And how was your day?

175 darthstar  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:06:41pm

I know, I know...probably not an actual fuck-up on Romney's part, but a fuck-up worth sharing in the off-chance it is.

176 engineer cat  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:06:43pm

personhood law

would have restricted bain from killing corporations, my friend

177 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:06:54pm

re: #174 William Barnett-Lewis

Been fighting with a 10 year old laptop all day. I got gifted an old Dell Lattitude C640. Decent enough machine for it's time - seriously needs more ram & a bigger disk but it's amazing how well FreeBSD & OpenLook can run on it once windows is wiped away. Even finally got a wireless PCCard working. Opera's not too bad though with only 256mb right now LGF just sends it thrashing :D Hopefully I can get a gig (max supported) or two (works unofficially). Supposedly I can drop in a faster Mobile P4 into it as well (1.8ghz now) though I'll do the ram & disk thing first.

And how was your day?

A 10 year old laptop is probably easier to manage than a 2 year old human being.

178 jaunte  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:07:59pm

re: #175 darthstar

Someone faked it who doesn't know about letterspacing.

179 engineer cat  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:08:53pm

re: #174 William Barnett-Lewis

Been fighting with a 10 year old laptop all day. I got gifted an old Dell Lattitude C640. Decent enough machine for it's time - seriously needs more ram & a bigger disk but it's amazing how well FreeBSD & OpenLook can run on it once windows is wiped away. Even finally got a wireless PCCard working. Opera's not too bad though with only 256mb right now LGF just sends it thrashing :D Hopefully I can get a gig (max supported) or two (works unofficially). Supposedly I can drop in a faster Mobile P4 into it as well (1.8ghz now) though I'll do the ram & disk thing first.

And how was your day?

how did our softwares get so fat that they will thrash on "only" 256meg??

180 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:09:12pm

So today I found out what I will be doing for the next month or so. I went to "brunch" with my sister and brother-in-law and knew when they invited me that something else had to be involved since the only real contact we have is on holidays and birthdays and such.

"So come back by the house and look at the upstairs bathroom, we think something might be wrong since we can see daylight thru the wall while sitting in the tub."

They were not kidding, the exterior sheathing is rotten, the studs are rotten, the wall sill is rotten, the flooring is rotten, and the floor joists are damaged but salvageable. Besides which they also have termites just to add insult to injury. I got as far as tearing out the drywall on three sides of the bathroom, disconnecting the tub overflow and drain, removing the rusted out tub, and then cutting off and putting new shut off valves on the hot and cold water lines that went to the tub fixture valve that I also tore out.

When I say the exterior wall is rotten I mean it already looks like someone blasted it with a shotgun, there is a 4"x6" hole under what used to be the left corner of the windowsill and multiple small holes underneath and to the sides. The wall studs are so rotted that you can grab fistfuls with your bare hand and tear them out with almost no effort.

So tomorrow morning bright and early I will be accompanying my brother-in-law to the city zoning and planning department and walking him through purchasing a "Home Owners" permit to gut and remodel his upstairs bathroom.

Well, at least it will give me something interesting to do, new plumbing, new tub, new exterior wall, new sheetrock and wonderboard, new tile, new flooring, new insulation, new bathroom window, etc, etc, etc...

Besides which I kinda like being given the chance to build it over from scratch, the layout sucks, the materials suck, the installation of the materials sucks, I be hard pressed not to wow them with pretty much anything I did as a major improvement even if I was asleep on my feet half the time.

Now if I wasn't "loaning" (yeah, right!) them the money to buy the materials and working for free then I suppose it would probably be even more fulfilling. But I guess maybe I just need to accept that all I'm going to get out of this job is a chance to hopefully create a really nice and also larger bathroom from the crap that was there to start with. That can work for me...

181 darthstar  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:11:28pm

re: #178 jaunte

Someone faked it who doesn't know about letterspacing.

It would still make a great T-shirt.
:)

182 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:11:44pm

re: #180 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You

In my family my husband is "tech support" and my brother-in-law is "emergency medical help."

One time an uncle got confused, cornered my husband in the kitchen, and asked him to take a look at the sore on his foot.

He said, "well, if you want me to I could."

183 darthstar  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:14:22pm

Friend of mine had a tumor removed last week. Saw him today for the first time since his surgery. They opened his head from sideburn-to-sideburn. Holy fucking shit, and this is considered a routine procedure today...or at least one that isn't too complex. He's got a line of about sixty staples holding his skull together for the moment. We may not have the best health care in the world, but we do do some shit right.

184 Mattand  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:15:23pm

re: #182 Mostly sane, most of the time.

In my family my husband is "tech support" and my brother-in-law is "emergency medical help."

Tech support for the family, AKA "Please give me advice on my computer problem which will be ignored even thought I don't know jack shit about technology."

Kill me now.

185 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:15:49pm

re: #179 engineer cat

how did our softwares get so fat that they will thrash on "only" 256meg??

I wish I knew. I remember going from 32mb to 128mb on a dual CPU AVIION database & X Terminal server and thinking that was luxurious. Ingres was a speed demon on that machine.

Though I was surprised at the behavior when I tried LGF. I logged in clicked on the link to come to the comments in this thread and kabloom. xload spikes, the disk goes nuts and Opera locked up tight as a drum.

186 Mattand  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:15:51pm

re: #183 darthstar

Friend of mine had a tumor removed last week. Saw him today for the first time since his surgery. They opened his head from sideburn-to-sideburn. Holy fucking shit, and this is considered a routine procedure today...or at least one that isn't too complex. He's got a line of about sixty staples holding his skull together for the moment. We may not have the best health care in the world, but we do do some shit right.

Oy. Glad he's okay.

187 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:17:23pm

re: #184 Mattand

Tech support for the family, AKA "Please give me advice on my computer problem which will be ignored even thought I don't know jack shit about technology."

Kill me now.

He fixed my parents' computer a couple of times, then told them that if they wouldn't stop my then-teenage brother from downloading pirated stuff and random files, he was done.

188 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:17:36pm

Well, the fireworks (illegal) are already beginning here in Oakland. I won't be around on the 4th but no matter, the sound show will last well into the the dead of night if this year is anything like last year.

189 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:19:06pm

Wondering if I should deal with the obvious troll now, or wait for it to be even more obnoxious.

190 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:19:20pm

re: #188 Eclectic Infidel

Well, the fireworks (illegal) are already beginning here in Oakland. I won't be around on the 4th but no matter, the sound show will last well into the the dead of night if this year is anything like last year.

My sister lives in a redneck town. (The one with the doctor for a husband.)

"Illegal fireworks" in their town means TNT. Not kidding.

191 darthstar  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:22:52pm

re: #187 Mostly sane, most of the time.

He fixed my parents' computer a couple of times, then told them that if they wouldn't stop my then-teenage brother from downloading pirated stuff and random files, he was done.

Now when I help friends and family "fix" their computers, I install MalwareBytes, set them a reminder to run it once a month, and change their permissions so they can't automatically download stupid shit. I figure I can help them get past the security if there's an app they actually might need.

192 CarleeCork  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:23:20pm

re: #99 engineer cat

i find it hard to believe that rush believes in anything except that he's still pissed off at his father for calling him a dumb overweight loser

That is a definite oxymoron.

193 Mattand  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:24:10pm

re: #189 Charles Johnson

Wondering if I should deal with the obvious troll now, or wait fot it to be even more obnoxious.

You referring to bernielomax from earlier?

194 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:24:51pm

re: #193 Mattand

How did you guess?

195 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:25:36pm

re: #173 jaunte

I don't know; it may be a sign that they're going back to the older, quieter corrupt system, and giving up the shooting war on the cartels.

Is that the kind of thing you can get back into the bottle? I'm not so sure.

196 CarleeCork  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:26:05pm

re: #165 palomino

Check out healthcare in Israel.

197 darthstar  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:26:30pm

re: #179 engineer cat

how did our softwares get so fat that they will thrash on "only" 256meg??

Funny, isn't it? I run 4 gigs of RAM on my laptop (and I'm not even a developer anymore) and my employees run 12-16 gigs on their desktops...and they want more. For parallel analysis, they actually need it.

198 jaunte  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:26:53pm

re: #195 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

And just two minutes ago this came across Twitter:

Armando Montano, an aspiring journalist who was working this summer as a news intern for The Associated Press in the Mexican capital, was found dead early Saturday. He was 22 years old.

Montano’s body was found in the elevator shaft of an apartment building near where he was living in the capital’s Condesa neighborhood. The circumstances of his death were being investigated by Mexican authorities.
[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

199 Mattand  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:27:18pm

re: #194 Charles Johnson

How did you guess?

The "Congress is exempt from Obamacare/I'm just asking questions" exchange and the inability to spell helped.

200 engineer cat  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:28:25pm

re: #188 Eclectic Infidel

Well, the fireworks (illegal) are already beginning here in Oakland. I won't be around on the 4th but no matter, the sound show will last well into the the dead of night if this year is anything like last year.

yo, oaksterdam!

201 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:28:45pm

re: #189 Charles Johnson

Wondering if I should deal with the obvious troll now, or wait for it to be even more obnoxious.

Your not going to give us a chance to have any fun first? :(

202 darthstar  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:32:29pm

re: #201 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You

You know what's more fun than engaging with trolls? Better yet, can you name one thing that isn't?

203 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:33:20pm

Sunday Drive-by Funny and Cuteness.

Have a great evening all!

204 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:34:01pm

Good night all!

205 darthstar  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:35:00pm

Hm...bed sounds like a good idea. Wait for me!

Laterz.

206 engineer cat  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:35:46pm

re: #199 Mattand

The "Congress is exempt from Obamacare/I'm just asking questions" exchange and the inability to spell helped.

concern troll is concerned?

207 Mattand  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:41:16pm

re: #206 engineer cat

concern troll is concerned?

And in desperate need of remedial English. Although, in all fairness, I need to be careful about criticizing spelling. I made a reference to Monty Python's Michael "Paline" earlier.

I'm thinking bernie wandered in from Brietbart.com, though.

208 freetoken  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:45:59pm

This one threw me for a loop:

Anthropologist: Turkish Muslimhood replacing Islamism

[Q:] In your book “Muslim Nationalism and the New Turks,” which will come out in November, do you deal with issues related to Turkey's national identity and if the identity has been redefined?

[A:] Yes, in fact, the whole book is about that. Kemalism was very much based on race, blood and lineage -- you hear the word “soy” [lineage] used all the time. A year or so ago, a minister spoke at a university to a group of scientists to encourage them to improve the standard of Turkish science. In his speech, he said that this was important so that we can be aware of dangers like importing tomato seeds from Israel -- if you grow tomatoes from these seed and people eat them, it could negatively affect Turks' genetic lineage. This statement led to an explanation by the minister of agriculture that Turkey imports only 4 percent of its tomato seeds from Israel. Another example is that during the 1999 earthquake, one of the ministers rejected blood donations from Greece because he did not want to mix blood. This relates also to liberals who can be perceived as mixing everything and having no boundaries. They have no single group that they belong to. That's one reason why liberals are not so powerful. Who listens to the liberals here? The power is in the hands of people who have groups and who know where the boundaries are and are ready to defend them.

The author being interviewed doesn't say that she agrees with the claim over tomato seeds, but the answer is quite ambiguous.

On another topic she seems a bit more clear:

[Q:] What's been happening to women in Turkey? You touched on the topic of how they were disregarded after the AK Party's election.

[A:] People are still uncomfortable using the word “kadın” (woman) even though Parliament has just changed the names for restrooms from “hanım” (lady) to “kadın.” We did the same thing in the 1960s and the '70s in the United States. Until then we had ladies' toilets, not women's toilets. The idea was to disentangle women from their social context and make them individuals. If you are defined as a member of a group, whether this group is your family, “aşiret” (clan), community or nation, those groups define who you are and claim ownership of women's bodies. Even the state gets involved; Turkey used to have forced virginity tests. Why would the state be interested in that? The state is the mirror image of an authoritarian and patriarchal society.

209 engineer cat  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:46:26pm

Ingres

i called up this company once but it seems that nobody there had heard of the french neoclassical painter of the same name

huh

210 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:47:52pm

re: #19 bernielomax

how come congress and judges are exempt from this wonderful O-care? Please tell me im misinformed so ill feel a lil better about this, i mean the way it was passed was ridiculous

A far better question to ask is why congress gave me a tax credit to build the laser that will destroy your planet.

211 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:49:03pm

re: #210 Varek Raith

A far better question to ask is why congress gave me a tax credit to build the laser that will destroy your planet.

Because you had a cool outfit and a catchy phrase.

212 Mocking Jay  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:49:33pm

re: #210 Varek Raith

A far better question to ask is why congress gave me a tax credit to build the laser that will destroy your planet.

I'm guessing no-bid contract.

213 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:49:41pm

'Morning, all.
If anyone is in the S Georgia/S. Alabama area, we have some nasty storms moving in from the east.

214 engineer cat  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:49:45pm

the way it was passed was ridiculous

heard fox say it might be passed on "reconciliation" so many times he believes that that's what happened

doesn't know what "reconciliation" is anyway

doesn't care

215 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:51:43pm

re: #183 darthstar

Friend of mine had a tumor removed last week. Saw him today for the first time since his surgery. They opened his head from sideburn-to-sideburn. Holy fucking shit, and this is considered a routine procedure today...or at least one that isn't too complex. He's got a line of about sixty staples holding his skull together for the moment. We may not have the best health care in the world, but we do do some shit right.

We know how to do shit. The challenge now is to get shit done for everyone who needs that shit.

216 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:52:32pm

re: #209 engineer cat

Ingres

i called up this company once but it seems that nobody there had heard of the french neoclassical painter of the same name

huh

First database I ever worked, on a Sun Micro-vax.

217 blueraven  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:54:00pm

re: #213 Decatur Deb

'Morning, all.
If anyone is in the S Georgia/S. Alabama area, we have some nasty storms moving in from the east.

My family is back that way. Savannah. I better check it out.
Stay safe!

218 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:55:53pm

re: #216 Decatur Deb

First database I ever worked, on a Sun Micro-vax.

Image: oldest-computer.jpg

219 freetoken  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:57:17pm

re: #218 Varek Raith

"With the ... Fortran language the computer will be easy to use."

Hah!

220 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:57:54pm

re: #219 freetoken

"With the ... Fortran language the computer will be easy to use."

Hah!

Totally easy to use.

221 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:58:19pm

re: #218 Varek Raith

Image: oldest-computer.jpg

One of my teachers told us he had been to a lab and seen 'integrated circuits', and that some day computers would be as small as a Bell desk telephone. Then we went back to punching paper tape.

222 Mocking Jay  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:58:56pm

re: #218 Varek Raith

Image: oldest-computer.jpg

I would trade six gigs of ram and two cores off my processor if only my PC could have a steering wheel like that.

223 Mocking Jay  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:59:27pm

re: #219 freetoken

"With the ... Fortran language the computer will be easy to use."

Hah!

I think they severely overestimated 21st century Americans.

224 freetoken  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:59:35pm

PZed launches an attack on the abysmal state of American television:

WTF, NatGeo?

Oh, it’s another crappy television show put on by a purported science-positive network that I completely missed. National Geographic ran a show called “Chasing UFOs” on Friday, and since about the only television I ever watch any more is commercial-free movies on Netflix, I wasn’t tuned in. Fortunately, Robert Sheaffer did, and found it “lurid and sensational”.

[...]

Great. The ghosthunter tactic. I guess people tune in to these things, so it must be effective television for some segment of the population, but every time I’ve seen these horrible green screen/night vision videos with everyone running around with a camera on a boom pointed at their face, I think it’s television for people who want to laugh at how stupid and gullible other people are.

Now why would National Geographic want to sully their good name with this tripe? Here’s a clue: they did a survey. 77% of Americans believe that there is evidence that aliens have visited the Earth, and 36% are sure that they have; 79% of Americans believe the X-Files was a documentary, and that the government has been covering up the Truth about the aliens.

Another nugget of information: Rupert Murdoch owns a 2/3 stake of the National Geographic Channel. Much is explained.

[...]

225 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:59:39pm

re: #222 It's a cookbook!

I would trade six gigs of ram and two cores off my processor if only my PC could have a steering wheel like that.

Yeah...What is the wheel for anyways???
XD

226 freetoken  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 9:59:57pm

re: #223 It's a cookbook!

I think they severely overestimated 21st century Americans.

See my immediately preceding post.

227 engineer cat  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:00:15pm

re: #218 Varek Raith

Image: oldest-computer.jpg

what the hell is the ocean liner style steering wheel for???

228 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:01:09pm

re: #227 engineer cat

what the hell is the ocean liner style steering wheel for???

Early game controller?

229 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:01:15pm

Here's a little PCIP flashback, similar to the Erica Chain Obama ad in Charles's #1:

I want to apologize to President Obama. But first, some background.

I found out three weeks ago I have cancer.

...

Fortunately for me, I've been saved by the federal government's Pre-existing Condition Insurance Plan, something I had never heard of before needing it. It's part of President Obama's healthcare plan, one of the things that has already kicked in, and it guarantees access to insurance for U.S. citizens with preexisting conditions who have been uninsured for at least six months. The application was short, the premiums are affordable, and I have found the people who work in the administration office to be quite compassionate (nothing like the people I have dealt with over the years at other insurance companies.) It's not perfect, of course, and it still leaves many people in need out in the cold. But it's a start, and for me it's been a lifesaver — perhaps literally.

Which brings me to my apology. I was pretty mad at Obama before I learned about this new insurance plan. I had changed my registration from Democrat to Independent, and I had blacked out the top of the "h" on my Obama bumper sticker, so that it read, "Got nope" instead of "got hope." I felt like he had let down the struggling middle class. My son and I had campaigned for him, but since he took office, we felt he had let us down.

So this is my public apology. I'm sorry I didn't do enough of my own research to find out what promises the president has made good on. I'm sorry I didn't realize that he really has stood up for me and my family, and for so many others like us. I'm getting a new bumper sticker to cover the one that says "Got nope." It will say "ObamaCares."

230 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:01:20pm

re: #225 Varek Raith

Yeah...What is the wheel for anyways???
XD

Manual assist to spin up the concrete-filled mass-storage drum. (They really existed.)

231 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:03:13pm

re: #230 Decatur Deb

Manual assist to spin up the concrete-filled mass-storage drum. (They really existed.)

Here:
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

The bit about manual assist was the joke.

232 MittDoesNotCompute  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:03:20pm

re: #219 freetoken

"With the ... Fortran language the computer will be easy to use."

Hah!

Believe it or not, Fortran's still being used and updated; the latest version is Fortran 2008 (approved in 2010).

233 Kragar  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:04:50pm

re: #218 Varek Raith

Image: oldest-computer.jpg

Every computer needs a double steering wheel.

234 engineer cat  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:05:34pm

re: #219 freetoken

"With the ... Fortran language the computer will be easy to use."

Hah!

you don't understand the eeevil plan

first lolcat, pretty soon whatever the teenagers say will sound just like fortran ennyway

235 freetoken  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:05:53pm

re: #232 SunshineSuperman

Believe it or not, Fortran's still being used and updated; the latest version is Fortran 2008 (approved in 2010).

And 77% of Americans believe there is evidence that Aliens have landed on Earth.

236 Kragar  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:06:43pm

re: #235 freetoken

And 77% of Americans believe there is evidence that Aliens have landed on Earth.

How else do you explain Trafficant's or Trump's hair?

237 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:06:44pm

re: #227 engineer cat

what the hell is the ocean liner style steering wheel for???

Interrupted screw cover plate for the floppy drive! ;)

238 Mocking Jay  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:07:03pm

re: #227 engineer cat

what the hell is the ocean liner style steering wheel for???

iCaptain

239 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:07:42pm

Musical gem of a find,


Richard Butler performs The Ghost in You. Acoustic version.

240 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:07:58pm

re: #232 SunshineSuperman

Believe it or not, Fortran's still being used and updated; the latest version is Fortran 2008 (approved in 2010).

I'm still waiting for Visual COBOL dammit! ;)

241 MittDoesNotCompute  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:09:25pm

re: #235 freetoken

And 77% of Americans believe there is evidence that Aliens have landed on Earth.

I'm not so concerned about that; rather, I'd be more concerned with the percentage of Americans that say that they've been abducted by ETs and probed.

Image: im-not-saying-its-aliens.jpg

///

242 engineer cat  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:10:10pm

re: #240 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

I'm still waiting for Visual COBOL dammit! ;)

object oriented COBOL

243 freetoken  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:10:40pm

Newest headline at WND's top of page scrolling slideshow:

BLACK MOBS NOW BEATING JEWS IN NEW YORK

Hmmmm....

244 Mocking Jay  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:11:17pm

re: #243 freetoken

Newest headline at WND's top of page scrolling slideshow:

Hmmm...

Consider me skeptical.

245 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:11:39pm

re: #242 engineer cat

object oriented COBOL

No.

246 engineer cat  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:12:37pm

re: #245 Varek Raith

No.

it doesn't say if anybody actually codes in it

247 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:13:47pm

Washington State PCIP Stories:

Dusty ‐ Thurston County
Dusty is a 28 year old with lymphoma. When he was 25 he started his own business. In order to save money he chose not to purchase health care insurance ‐ like others of his age, he felt he could take the risk. Six months later he was diagnosed with stage 4a lymphoma. He received treatment and owes over $200,000 in medical bills. He had not been to the doctor in months because he could not afford any treatment that may be recommended and did not want to add to his debt. With the help of PCIP‐WA he is seeing a doctor and receiving the care that he needs. “I’ll be passing my 3‐year remission in July this year,” Dusty said. “The Pre‐existing Condition Insurance Plan lets me get all of my tests and everything is showing that I’m still clear. Life is going really well! My partner and I are expecting a baby in August and we’re excited.”

I hope the Obama campaign keeps working overtime to publicize these stories. There's probably enough of them out there to cut a new ad every day between now and election day.

248 freetoken  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:16:14pm

Good grief, that WND article is written by none other Colin Flaherty, a somewhat successful writer who happens to a favorite of the sundry list of unsavory types.

249 MittDoesNotCompute  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:20:24pm

re: #247 goddamnedfrank

Washington State PCIP Stories:

I hope the Obama campaign keeps working overtime to publicize these stories. There's probably enough of them out there to cut a new ad every day between now and election day.

And if some "conservatives" had/have their way, people like Dusty would die without the treatment they need and those "conservatives" would not care one fucking bit.

Mean people fucking suck ass.

250 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:25:30pm

re: #247 goddamnedfrank

This one really gets me:

Lori – Kitsap County
Lori was diagnosed about 5 yrs ago with Secondary Sjogren's an autoimmune disease that caused autoimmune pancreatitis (which led to Type 2 Diabetes), Hashimoto's (thyroid) syndrome and rheumatoid arthritis, among other things. She is unable to work and at times the pain and/or fatigue is crippling.

Several years ago, she was dropped from her medical insurance due to a billing snafu. While she was able to find insurance for the husband and three sons, she was unable to find affordable coverage for herself. Because they have two boys in college they could not afford the tests, medications and treatments that Lori needed.

After a couple years of trying to find insurance, Lori told her husband she wanted a divorce. She was concerned that if something catastrophic happened to her medically, their house to be taken from him and their children. While her husband refused to let her divorce him, Lori still worried about their future.

Lori learned about the Pre‐existing Condition Insurance Plan – Washington when researching health care options for her family on the internet. She applied and was accepted in June. “When I opened the package, I cried. I knew it was weighing heavy on me, but I didn't realize how heavy until I opened the package.” Lori said. “PCIP‐WA has saved my marriage and given me tremendous peace of mind. I am very grateful”

251 freetoken  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:26:01pm

That WND story has been up for 7 hours and has gathered 638 comments... and in case you couldn't guess the tenor, here are some examples:

Dan

Wake up people, this is just the beginning. America is too far gone, obama was the last straw, Holder, the top law man says ignore all minority crimes, just look the other way. Black Panthers at poling stations......WTF. Nobody did a thing, that gives the blacks a green light to attack Jews, whites or anyone else they feel like. The press and news media won't report anything that casts a negative tone on blacks. Get out on any large city on urban area, you're not safe and not allowed to protect yourself or your family. If you fight back you"re the one that gets charged with a crime. Keep your powder dry boys, big time trouble is coming, and soon. Race war, class warfare, civil war by Nov so the usurper in the white house can suspend the election.

---

WVF

I'm sick and tired of Blacks being out of control, because BHO, Imposter in Chief, is in the White House. It's time for all Caucasions, including Jews, to wipe these lawbreakers off the face of the Earth. If any of them ever screw with me, they are going to get the worst lead poisoning in the history of mankind!

---

And so on.

WND and the right wing nuts are so out in the open now. All or Romney's horses and all of Romney's men won't be able to put them back in their caves.

252 Mocking Jay  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:27:38pm

re: #251 freetoken

That WND story has been up for 7 hours and has gathered 638 comments... and in case you couldn't guess the tenor, here are some examples:

---

---

And so on.

WND and the right wing nuts are so out in the open now. All or Romney's horses and all of Romney's men won't be able to put them back in their caves.

Well, they'll quiet down a bit if he wins. If Obama wins a second term, it's on like Donkey Kong.

253 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:30:57pm

re: #252 It's a cookbook!

Well, they'll quiet down a bit if he wins. If Obama wins a second term, it's on like Donkey Kong.

Maybe not, if the crazy is being manipulated at significant cost. If they get stomped in Nov, the backers of the astroturf effort will probably look for a more effective tack.

254 aagcobb  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:31:44pm

re: #229 goddamnedfrank

Here's a little PCIP flashback, similar to the Erica Chain Obama ad in Charles's #1:

She gambled and she lost, and now taxpayers have to bail her out? Who does she think she is, a Wall Street Banker?

255 Mocking Jay  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:34:13pm

re: #254 aagcobb

Yeah! What we need is some kind of system that makes these freeloaders pay for their healthcare like the rest of us!

Oh wait...

256 palomino  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:34:59pm

re: #196 CarleeCork

Check out healthcare in Israel.

Sounds pretty good...4th highest life expectancy in the world.

Weird thing is that a lot of American conservatives would tell you that Israel, Canada, Australia, etc. are great places with advanced democracies, but if we were to adopt their healthcare systems it would ruin America (and somehow make us far worse than those countries).

257 aagcobb  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:36:34pm

re: #256 palomino

Sounds pretty good...4th highest life expectancy in the world.

Weird thing is that a lot of American conservatives would tell you that Israel, Canada, Australia, etc. are great places with advanced democracies, but if we were to adopt their healthcare systems it would ruin America (and somehow make us far worse than those countries).

Excepting Israel, I think most wingnuts believe all our allies are Marxist dictatorships, if you believe their rhetoric.

258 MittDoesNotCompute  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:37:39pm

re: #257 aagcobb

Excepting Israel, I think most wingnuts believe all our allies are Marxist dictatorships, if you believe their rhetoric.

Da, comrade...

259 Kragar  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:37:48pm

re: #253 Decatur Deb

Maybe not, if the crazy is being manipulated at significant cost. If they get stomped in Nov, the backers of the astroturf effort will probably look for a more effective tack.

Like emigration?

260 Mocking Jay  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:40:00pm

re: #259 Kragar

Like emigration?

I believe we call that "self-deportation" now.

261 Kragar  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:41:09pm

re: #260 It's a cookbook!

I believe we call that "self-deportation" now.

AKA "I'm taking my ball and leaving!"

262 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:43:31pm

re: #259 Kragar

Like emigration?

Dunno, and I doubt they have any new thinkers among them. I'd expect the money to try to get back to a Goldwater/Rockefeller respectability and the nuts to group around Rand Paul.

263 palomino  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:47:11pm

re: #257 aagcobb

Excepting Israel, I think most wingnuts believe all our allies are Marxist dictatorships, if you believe their rhetoric.

Yes, so many Americans are completely ignorant of the rest of the world, it's truly sad. It's the flip side of American exceptionalism--we don't need to pay attention to the rest of the world because "We're no. 1, we're no. 1, fuck yeah!"

The idea that Canada or Australia are hotbeds of radicalism is absurd. They merely have a shared cultural value that a healthy populace is a valuable public good. We aren't there yet.

264 CarleeCork  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:54:40pm

Take the time to watch this:

265 palomino  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 10:59:11pm

re: #264 CarleeCork

Would be great if someone had the balls to say something like that. Of course they'd get fired the next day by any media outlet close to mainstream. Failing to mindlessly scream "We're no. 1" is a hanging offense.

266 CarleeCork  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 11:02:14pm

re: #265 palomino

America! Fuck yeah!

267 CarleeCork  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 11:03:42pm

re: #265 palomino

Would be great if someone had the balls to say something like that. Of course they'd get fired the next day by any media outlet close to mainstream. Failing to mindlessly scream "We're no. 1" is a hanging offense.

But.....is it true?

268 freetoken  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 11:14:27pm
269 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 11:15:18pm

re: #267 CarleeCork

But...is it true?

I think it's true that we are still number 1 in the most important characteristic--cultural agility. I don't see any other nation of significant size and power that has the ability to spin on a dime and adapt to a radically changing global environment. That's a quality that the conservatives would grind out of us.

270 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 11:15:24pm

re: #257 aagcobb

Excepting Israel, I think most wingnuts believe all our allies are Marxist dictatorships, if you believe their rhetoric.

And they write off Israel's single payer universal healthcare as only being possible because of their supposed ethnic/cultural homogeneity, with a straight face.

Even if the people who say that believe it's true (it's not, Israel has a lot of ethnic and cultural diversity) I wonder if they realize what a horrible thing that is to say? It basically implies that their real motive for opposing single payer universal healthcare is that they simply don't want society to help people who look different than they do / come from different cultures (which is true.)

271 AK-47%  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 11:18:37pm

re: #270 goddamnedfrank

And they write off Israel's single payer universal healthcare as only being possible because of their supposed ethnic/cultural homogeneity, with a straight face.

I have heard the argument advanced for ages that socialism only works in countries with small, racially & ethnically homogenous populations, like in Scandinavia.

I ws never really clear about what lies behind this sort of thinking.

272 CarleeCork  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 11:19:24pm

re: #271 Expand Your Ground

I have heard the argument advanced for ages that socialism only works in countries with small, racially & ethnically homogenous populations, like in Scandinavia.

I ws never really clear about what lies behind this sort of thinking.

Lack of thinking?

273 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 11:20:37pm

re: #270 goddamnedfrank

And they write off Israel's single payer universal healthcare as only being possible because of their supposed ethnic/cultural homogeneity, with a straight face.

Even if the people who say that believe it's true (it's not, Israel has a lot of ethnic and cultural diversity) I wonder if they realize what a horrible thing that is to say? It basically implies that their real motive for opposing single payer universal healthcare is that they simply don't want society to help people who look different than they do / come from different cultures (which is true.)

That last part has been an interesting moving target during US history. The inclusiveness has varied as various other cultural groups have turned up, grown in number, or other pressures have forced adjustments in how they are treated. Along with the political adjustments on whether a particular group should be demonized as part of the threatening "other" or brought into the tent as part of the defenders of all that is right and holy.

274 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 11:22:42pm

re: #271 Expand Your Ground

I have heard the argument advanced for ages that socialism only works in countries with small, racially & ethnically homogenous populations, like in Scandinavia.

I ws never really clear about what lies behind this sort of thinking.

Racism, presented at "racial realism." Basically they're trying to say that it's society that's intrinsically racist, not them, but I'm not buying it.

275 Kronocide  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 11:23:17pm

re: #248 freetoken

Good grief, that WND article is written by none other Colin Flaherty, a somewhat successful writer who happens to a favorite of the sundry list of unsavory types.

Racial violence is back: “The first book to tell the real story about the return of black on white crime.”

That whole Real Truth thingy again. It must be true if it says so.

276 palomino  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 11:23:49pm

re: #267 CarleeCork

But...is it true?

To some extent, but when he puts the blame on this generation of Americans specifically he starts to get nostalgic about the good old days, and then the rest is a big "Back in my day..." cliche.

Statistically, yes, we're no. 1 in only a few areas, some dubious like incarceration rate and religiosity over science.

277 engineer cat  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 11:25:04pm

re: #271 Expand Your Ground

I have heard the argument advanced for ages that socialism only works in countries with small, racially & ethnically homogenous populations, like in Scandinavia.

I ws never really clear about what lies behind this sort of thinking.

just plain old garden variety racism that speaks in code

278 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 11:25:58pm

re: #276 palomino

To some extent, but when he puts the blame on this generation of Americans specifically he starts to get nostalgic about the good old days, and then the rest is a big "Back in my day..." cliche.

Statistically, yes, we're no. 1 in only a few areas, some dubious like incarceration rate and religiosity over science.

"Young whippersnappers don't listen to their elders, play that awful rock music, refuse to burn crosses, and... hey you! Get off my lawn!"

279 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 11:29:04pm

Weird weather--the front has blasted through with a lot of rain, but the temperature is still 72 degrees. The alarm radio is quiet, so 'nite once again.

280 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 11:29:41pm

re: #276 palomino

To some extent, but when he puts the blame on this generation of Americans specifically he starts to get nostalgic about the good old days, and then the rest is a big "Back in my day..." cliche.

Not to mention that voting trends put a lot more of the blame on his generation, the baby boomers. You don't see the current generation of young adults supporting drug war incarcerations, supporting education cuts after benefiting from heavily subsidized colleges, or trying to gut social security and medicare for even younger generations. That's all baby boomers and older who are trying to pull the ladder up behind them.

281 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 11:30:37pm

re: #280 goddamnedfrank

Not to mention that voting trends put a lot more of the blame on his generation, the baby boomers. You don't see the current generation of young adults supporting drug war incarcerations, supporting education cuts after benefiting from heavily subsidized colleges, or trying to gut social security and medicare for even younger generations. That's all baby boomers and older who are trying to pull the ladder up behind them.

Ahem. Agist punk.

282 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 11:35:24pm

re: #281 Decatur Deb

Ahem. Agist punk.

Pretty much.

283 AK-47%  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 11:36:13pm

I admire America's spirit of rugged individualism, of self-reliance and personal responsibility.

But why does this translate into the notion that individuals should be compelled to negotiate on an "equal" basis with multi-billion-dollar, multinational corporations for terms of employment or health insurance?

284 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 11:42:35pm

re: #280 goddamnedfrank

Not to mention that voting trends put a lot more of the blame on his generation, the baby boomers. You don't see the current generation of young adults supporting drug war incarcerations, supporting education cuts after benefiting from heavily subsidized colleges, or trying to gut social security and medicare for even younger generations. That's all baby boomers and older who are trying to pull the ladder up behind them.

I see a couple of factors involved in this. Drawing mainly from what I know about a few acquaintances who are whining heavily on Facebook right now. Oh, they're late-30s or early-40s white males with a few children and college degrees.

1. Upbringing draws heavily from parents and culture growing up in. In my sample cases this is conservative and rural parts of western PA.

2. Young and coming of age in a period of cultural disruption and what was also the end of the myth of the American Dream. The American cultural environment also turned heavily into a theme of government and authority being corrupt and grasping by default.*

3. Increasing complexity of society and challenge of norms leading to challenges to their normal superior position in the social hierarchy. And from there they bought into the "culture war" memes and continue to seek reinforcement that they chose correctly here.

4. In both cases they had some tough times in their early-20s with college, job, and young children at that time. I think that has been converted into "I pulled myself through, why can't everyone else?" without realizing that not everyone else had the family and friends that helped them out.

* - My pet example of this is the two versions of "The Longest Yard". Both revolve heavily around challenging corrupt authority. But in the first one an exterior authority (the referees for the football game) are portrayed as honest and doing the job while they are portrayed as corrupt by default in the re-make.

285 AK-47%  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 11:48:32pm

re: #284 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

"I pulled myself through, why can't everyone else?" without realizing that not everyone else had the family and friends that helped them out.

"I've been on welfare and food stamps...did anyone help me?"

Remember that famous Craig T. Nelson rant on Beck?

286 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Jul 1, 2012 11:53:46pm
WASHINGTON -- Mary Duffy said she was terrified the Supreme Court would strike down health-care reform.

The 62-year-old small-business owner in Redwood City, Calif., has had insurance since 2010 thanks to the Affordable Care Act's small health plan for people with pre-existing conditions. Duffy, a three-time breast cancer survivor, lost her insurance after she lost her job in 2008. (HuffPost has followed Duffy on her quest for insurance since 2009.)

"I was looking at $1,080 in meds again and having to beg my doctors to see me," Duffy said, describing what would happen if the Supreme Court invalidated the entire law (which is the outcome dissenting justices wanted).

...

"I was more relieved you could imagine," said Steve Clark, a 63-year-old business administrator at a small IT firm in St. Louis. Clark also lost his insurance during an unemployment spell, and his new job doesn't cover him.

After Clark enrolled in the PCIP in March, he said, he finally saw a dermatologist about a small lesion on his lip. The lesion turned out to be no big deal, but the dermatologist found a melanoma on Clark's back. Now he's undergoing treatment with an oncologist.

...

David Howard, a 60-year-old co-owner of an interior design company in San Francisco, described himself as "extremely relieved" by the Supreme Court's decision. He'd been uninsured for more than a year before enrolling in 2010. Early last year a surprise case of meningococcal meningitis put him in the hospital for a month. If he hadn't been insured, he said, he would have had to file for bankruptcy protection and give up his business.

...

Pritchard, 31, said she'd been turned down by insurance companies because she'd been treated for a benign tumor seven years ago. "It’s a huge relief and a load off to know I can pay for health insurance and I can't be turned down for my so-called pre-existing conditions."

287 freetoken  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 12:06:02am

Attempting to determine what ACA will really cost:

Plenty for Businesses to Mull After High Court Rules

[...]

George McGregor, general manager of the Voluntary Employee Benefits Association in Mission Valley, said large employers with 50 or more employees could be impacted by an overall increase of between 12 and 20 percent for costs associated with providing health care coverage. In the short term, there could be compliance costs for businesses that waited for the Supreme Court decision before complying with the law.

“Now they’re scrambling to figure out what they need to do to restructure their insurance plan to comply with the requirements of health care reform,” said McGregor, whose nonprofit trust represents employees of 40 local school districts and their dependents. [...]

McGregor said some businesses have already experienced cost increases with the rule that children be allowed to remain on their parents’ insurance policies until age 26. The rule was implemented with the first plan year starting after Sept. 23, 2010.

“Our employers saw a one and a half to 2 percent increase in costs for the additional coverage,” he said

[...]

Which sounds about right - after all, 22-26 year olds are not big consumers of healthcare.

If the prediction of 12-20% increase comes true, though, I think we will be hearing some squeals.

Mark Perlberg, president and CEO in the San Diego office of professional employer organization Oasis Outsourcing, said [...]

“You’re talking about a 2014 provision,” he said. “I think there’s going to be a lot of changes between now and then. … A lot of people believe there will be changes in the numbers and effective dates because a lot of places are not ready to go through with this — compliance and recordkeeping.”

It will be interesting to see if the Democrats in Congress try to amend the ACA to accommodate slow adapters whether the GOP will try to scuttle the whole thing through amendments.

288 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 12:09:08am

re: #287 freetoken

Probably both, followed by a veto by Obama. Bill to make adjustments and fixes will get poisoned via amendment and then scuttled leaving the laws as they stand in place. To followed by much gnashing of teeth.

289 AK-47%  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 12:17:14am

The Republicans have another major agenda point: do drag their feet and do everything in their power to make it look like HCR is a dismal failure. We will see no end of it, regardless of how the election turns out.

290 Digital Display  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 12:17:37am

Well it's late..I've been spending several hours working on a good guitar solo and words to a background track..

When I think of all those nights
And all those games you play
All those times I tried to leave
but all those times I stayed
I still hear your laughter
and it cuts me like a blade
---Bridge---
I'm over the edge
Girl I'm falling away
There is nothing more that I can do
There is nothing left I can say
I'm over the edge/I'm falling away
----------

291 freetoken  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 12:39:37am
292 Digital Display  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 12:46:39am

And this track is just begging for good lyrics..I got a bunch of words but it needs lots of work.. I'm calling it Honey Mountain...I dunno..Something

293 boxhead  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 12:46:45am

re: #289 Expand Your Ground

The Republicans have another major agenda point: do drag their feet and do everything in their power to make it look like HCR is a dismal failure. We will see no end of it, regardless of how the election turns out.

But wasn't that the old agenda point?

294 Kragar  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 12:57:12am

Mormons quit church in mass resignation ceremony

Among the reasons cited by those resigning are the church's political activism against gay marriage and doctrinal teachings that conflict with scientific findings or are perceived as racist or sexist.

Others cite inconsistencies in the Mormons' explanation of its own history, including the practice of polygamy. The church renounced plural marriage over a century ago as Utah was seeking statehood.

Asked about the resignations, a church spokesman said the church loves and respects each member.

"People make their own decisions about the direction they will follow in life," spokesman Michael Purdy said in an email. "While there are very few who take this action, it is sad to see someone choose to leave. We wish them well."
...
A sixth-generation Mormon, Kris Fielding, 35, traveled from Phoenix for the resignation event in part to represent those who do not yet have the courage to do so, he said, including his wife, who worries about reaction from their families.

Married in a Mormon temple, Fielding said the couples shared disaffection from their faith is tied in part to their local church leader's response to questions Fielding had about polyandry and polygamy - taking multiple husbands and wives - in the early church.

"I went to him looking for a faithful perspective. He called my wife and told her she needed to find a new husband," Fielding said.

295 boxhead  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 12:58:35am

re: #287 freetoken

That is why ACA was never the correct solution. Either single payer or Medicare for all. Insurance companies add an estimated 30% to health care with no added benefits. Watching so many Americans demonize the very successful solutions around the world that are here for us to emulate is frustrating.

This video clip expresses my desires of what I would love to do to those silly folks.... LOL


296 boxhead  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 1:00:30am

re: #294 Kragar

wow... I hope those that participated will stand strong.

297 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 1:05:33am

re: #294 Kragar

Mormons quit church in mass resignation ceremony

When a church and its leaders fail to serve your needs properly, and then is unwilling to reasonably work with you, then departing is probably the best option.

298 researchok  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 1:14:03am

Morning, all

299 boxhead  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 1:22:53am

re: #298 researchok

Morning, all

howdy.. :)

300 researchok  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 1:23:55am

Watching the Stooges

301 boxhead  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 1:25:18am

re: #300 researchok

Watching the Stooges

not till after 2:00 PDT where I live... :) Already had it DVRed... lol

302 researchok  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 1:29:12am

Funny as hell..guys will appreciate it for sure.

We become 14 again

303 researchok  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 1:44:09am

re: #268 freetoken

Beautiful.

304 boxhead  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 2:01:01am

re: #302 researchok

Stooges rule!


305 simoom  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 2:42:10am

Apparently National Review’s Ramesh Ponnuru spoke at a Princeton Panel on 6/1 and implied he had an inside source who told him about the Roberts vote switch. He said something similar to the phrase Jan Crawford used from her source — that Chief Justice Roberts had gone “wobbly”.

306 freetoken  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 2:48:46am

re: #294 Kragar

From the link:

'WE HAVE TO BE CAREFUL'

Some leaving the church Saturday did so with trepidation, as Mormon culture often stigmatizes those who fall away, leaving some without social or business connections.

"It's hard, so we have to be very careful," said Robin Hansen, a participant who said she quit over a "culture of abuse" which she believes is cultivated by church teachings promoting obedience.

Hansen said her husband had not joined her in leaving the faith because he works in a church-related business and could lose his job if he doesn't maintain his membership.

To resign from the church, Mormons must submit a formal letter asking their names be removed from church rolls, a church instructional handbook for lay leaders published on the Internet in 2010 shows.

307 freetoken  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 3:17:07am
308 AK-47%  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 3:21:06am

re: #293 boxhead

But wasn't that the old agenda point?

Their agenda point was to block it. Now that is a done deal, their agenda point is to overturn it, and barring that, to hinder its implementation in every way possible.

We already have a handful of governors who are preapred to ignore the law, thus prompting federal intervention, which will be portrayed as the health care equivalent of Sherman marching through Georgia...

309 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 4:59:26am

Morning Lizardim. Happy Canada Day to my neighbors to the north. As much as we like to poke fun at you, we still owe you a lot of thanks for pulling our asses out of the fire a few times in recent history. We wouldn't be who we are without each other, eh?

310 AK-47%  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 5:04:03am

And we thank you as a buffer zone keeping us from direct physical contact with Sarah Palin...

311 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 5:20:11am

re: #309 thedopefishlives

Morning Lizardim. Happy Canada Day to my neighbors to the north. As much as we like to poke fun at you, we still owe you a lot of thanks for pulling our asses out of the fire a few times in recent history. We wouldn't be who we are without each other, eh?

200 year's ago today the War of 1812 is on.

Capture of the Cuyahoga Packet (July 2, 1812): The capture on the Detroit River of the American merchant schooner Cuyahoga Packet. The American vessel contained official documents with information valuable to the British belonging to Brigadier General William Hull.

312 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 5:25:15am

re: #311 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

200 year's ago today the War of 1812 is on.

Capture of the Cuyahoga Packet (July 2, 1812): The capture on the Detroit River of the American merchant schooner Cuyahoga Packet. The American vessel contained official documents with information valuable to the British belonging to Brigadier General William Hull.

And 149 years ago, General Robert E. Lee would be giving his morning orders for the main assault at Gettysburg. The famous action of Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain's 20th Maine on the slopes of Little Round Top would secure his place in history.

313 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 5:27:15am

Is anybody else getting swarmed by porno spambots on Twitter?

314 AK-47%  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 5:28:24am

Thank you for giving me a good reason to keep clear of that medium...

315 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 5:28:39am

re: #312 thedopefishlives

And 149 years ago, General Robert E. Lee would be giving his morning orders for the main assault at Gettysburg. The famous action of Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain's 20th Maine on the slopes of Little Round Top would secure his place in history.

Also the day of fame for the 212th Texas Cavalry! ;)

[Link: groups.google.com...]

316 Shropshire_Slasher  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 5:30:20am

Man crashes van into Queensbury Taco Bell
[Link: www.timesunion.com...]
Usually I get the runs after eating taco hell.

317 boxhead  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 5:34:55am

re: #308 Expand Your Ground

Their agenda point was to block it. Now that is a done deal, their agenda point is to overturn it, and barring that, to hinder its implementation in every way possible.

We already have a handful of governors who are preapred to ignore the law, thus prompting federal intervention, which will be portrayed as the health care equivalent of Sherman marching through Georgia...

Same thing, different recipe. Their goal seems to be to spread as much disinformation as to cause the electorate to not understand the realities of the ACA.

Now if those same Governors wanted to show concern about Chief Justice Roberts' ruling on the breadth of taxation powers by Congress, then that would a discussion worth having.

But, unfortunately, divining the true intentions of folks is a power I have not yet achieved. .

318 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 5:35:06am

re: #315 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Also the day of fame for the 212th Texas Cavalry! ;)

[Link: groups.google.com...]

As well as the 1st Minnesota Volunteer Infantry, who made a name for themselves standing in the gap after Dan Sickles's ill-fated maneuver into the Peach Orchard. They lost 215 of their 262 men that hot July afternoon, but they held off the incoming brigade until the reserves could be brought into line.

319 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 5:40:41am

re: #318 thedopefishlives

As well as the 1st Minnesota Volunteer Infantry, who made a name for themselves standing in the gap after Dan Sickles's ill-fated maneuver into the Peach Orchard. They lost 215 of their 262 men that hot July afternoon, but they held off the incoming brigade until the reserves could be brought into line.

Did you know that the last time the U.S. military fought a full-fledged cavalry battle was...2003!

320 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 5:42:16am

re: #319 Learned Mother of Zion

Did you know that the last time the U.S. military fought a full-fledged cavalry battle was...2003!

Yeah, I read that on Cracked the other day. Pretty remarkable. I laughed when they mentioned that out of all the US Special Forces soldiers involved, only one had any familiarity with being on horseback.

321 Shropshire_Slasher  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 5:44:22am

Katie Holmes fears she can’t take one step without a Scientology goon following her every move in a heavy- handed intimidation attempt.

Read more: [Link: www.nypost.com...]
Poor thing.

322 AK-47%  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 5:44:34am

re: #317 boxhead

Since the Constitutional challenge failed, all that remains is sheer boneheaded bloody-mindedness...

323 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 5:46:17am

re: #320 thedopefishlives

Yeah, I read that on Cracked the other day. Pretty remarkable. I laughed when they mentioned that out of all the US Special Forces soldiers involved, only one had any familiarity with being on horseback.

And then afterward they all had to play a game of Pashtun Polo, where players try to whack a dead goat.

324 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 5:48:15am

re: #318 thedopefishlives

As well as the 1st Minnesota Volunteer Infantry, who made a name for themselves standing in the gap after Dan Sickles's ill-fated maneuver into the Peach Orchard. They lost 215 of their 262 men that hot July afternoon, but they held off the incoming brigade until the reserves could be brought into line.

A justly famous stand. There's a separate book solely on the 1st Minnesota at Gettysburg.

325 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 5:53:47am

re: #324 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

A justly famous stand. There's a separate book solely on the 1st Minnesota at Gettysburg.

The unit's flag hangs in the state capitol building, about half a mile down from where I am currently sitting.

326 boxhead  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 5:56:11am

re: #322 Expand Your Ground

Since the Constitutional challenge failed, all that remains is sheer boneheaded bloody-mindedness...

The more I read about CJ Roberts' decision, the more I think it was done to remove him from the fray and point to the path on how ACA can be overturned. Congress. Was it a ploy to energize the Righties? To me they seem pretty worked already. But for individual States to refuse ACA, IMHO, would be a path to the removing of those doing so. IF, the Dems can finally and effectively disseminate exactly what ACA is.

327 Romantic Heretic  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 5:59:45am

re: #218 Varek Raith

Image: oldest-computer.jpg

True story.

I once took a university level programming course. This was in the late 70s. Doing work consisted of 'Wait in line for card punch. Punch cards. Wait in line for card reader. Read cards. Wait in line for printer. Gather output. Note errors. Go back to waiting in line for card punch. Repeat until no more errors occur.'

Several weeks into the course I was reading a Scientific American. It was full of ads for personal computers. (Apple II, TRS-80, Altair, Imsai and Compucolor among others.)

I went to my prof and asked, "What do you think of these new personal computers coming out?"

His reply? "Eh. They're just toys. They'll never amount to anything."

I quit that course and got my money back. I knew I couldn't learn anything useful from that man. I used the money to get an Apple II instead.

328 AK-47%  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 6:00:13am

re: #326 boxhead

T IF, the Dems can finally and effectively disseminate exactly what ACA is.

they have been unable to do so since the debate started. some of it is their own lack of eloquence, some of it is the inability to be heard over the background noise and red herrings flying about and some of it is the sheer bloody-mindedness of their audience.

329 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 6:05:49am

re: #324 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

The thing that's interesting to me about the 1st Minnesota is that I always knew it was a very small regiment, but it took me a while to realize why. The state had only been admitted to the Union 3 years before the war started, and to top it all off, they were busy fighting the Sioux at home. It's a pretty selfless gesture to round up whatever hardy fighting men you can spare and send them to a war way off to the southeast when you could just as easily have used them in your own internal affairs.

330 Romantic Heretic  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 6:07:03am

re: #263 palomino

Yes, so many Americans are completely ignorant of the rest of the world, it's truly sad. It's the flip side of American exceptionalism--we don't need to pay attention to the rest of the world because "We're no. 1, we're no. 1, fuck yeah!"

I think that's why 9/11 was such a shock to so many Americans, and so little a shock to the rest of the world. 9/11 rammed home, without lube, that there is a world out there and it does affect America.

Like most such events it was traumatic and lead to some rather extreme and foolish behaviour.

331 Shropshire_Slasher  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 6:07:19am

Alec Baldwin got married and I wasn't invited, WTF.
[Link: www.nypost.com...]
When I grow up I want my own "handlers"
He does look good, dammit.

332 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 6:14:05am

re: #329 thedopefishlives

The thing that's interesting to me about the 1st Minnesota is that I always knew it was a very small regiment, but it took me a while to realize why. The state had only been admitted to the Union 3 years before the war started, and to top it all off, they were busy fighting the Sioux at home. It's a pretty selfless gesture to round up whatever hardy fighting men you can spare and send them to a war way off to the southeast when you could just as easily have used them in your own internal affairs.

Yep. A large quantity of the troops came from more heavily populated, and generally eastern, states. New York and Pennsylvania obviously for the Union (though by the end of the war I believe that the US Army had recruited at least one regiment from all the pre-war states, northern and southern.)

Minnesota was still out-and-out frontier at that stage.

There's also an anecdote of a wit serving picket duty during the Petersburg siege telling the Confederates that he was in the 151st Rhode Island regiment while they were gabbing back and forth.

333 boxhead  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 6:15:04am

re: #328 Expand Your Ground

they have been unable to do so since the debate started. some of it is their own lack of eloquence, some of it is the inability to be heard over the background noise and red herrings flying about and some of it is the sheer bloody-mindedness of their audience.

Why does it have to be so hard? Is it the lack of an echo chamber such as the Right employs? Or because many on the Left loath the idea of having to wallow in the muck. But that would be implying something about the Left I am unable to support. Heck, I have a loud voice, give me a mic and I know I can shout down any other talking head on TV. LOL

334 Aye Pod  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 6:16:18am

re: #218 Varek Raith

Image: oldest-computer.jpg

This computer is 2000 years old. Those Greeks were GOOD.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

335 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 6:16:44am

re: #332 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Yep. A large quantity of the troops came from more heavily populated, and generally eastern, states. New York and Pennsylvania obviously for the Union (though by the end of the war I believe that the US Army had recruited at least one regiment from all the pre-war states, northern and southern.)

Minnesota was still out-and-out frontier at that stage.

There's also an anecdote of a wit serving picket duty during the Petersburg siege telling the Confederates that he was in the 151st Rhode Island regiment while they were gabbing back and forth.

151st Rhode Island, that's a good one. I can just imagine the look on the Rebel soldier's face.

336 Mattand  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 6:17:27am

re: #308 Expand Your Ground

Their agenda point was to block it. Now that is a done deal, their agenda point is to overturn it, and barring that, to hinder its implementation in every way possible.

We already have a handful of governors who are preapred to ignore the law, thus prompting federal intervention, which will be portrayed as the health care equivalent of Sherman marching through Georgia...

I'd like to think that this is actually the health care equivalent of Wallace blocking the school entrance. Given what Wallace was trying to accomplish, it may not be the best analogy.

I'm really trying to figure out the end game on this one. Are they expecting the electorate to say "Thanks, Governor, my kids didn't need easier access to a doctor!" Then again, most of these guys are GOP. They get into office via voters who are voting against their own self-interest.

What are the legal consequences for governors ignoring federal, SCOTUS-backed law?

Chris Christie was holding off on implementing NJ's part of the deal until the SCOTUS weighed in. I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop here. I'm guessing he's going to make some snide remark but implement the law.

Who knows? He may sit down and pout like the others if he thinks it'll burnish his image among the GOP nationally *coughPresident2016cough*

337 SidewaysQuark  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 6:19:26am

re: #334 Aye Pod

This computer is 2000 years old. Those Greeks were GOOD.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Why does it need a steering wheel?

338 boxhead  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 6:20:09am

re: #337 SidewaysQuark

Why does it need a steering wheel?

To navigate the AND OR gates.

339 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 6:21:49am

re: #336 Mattand

I'd like to think that this is actually the health care equivalent of Wallace blocking the school entrance. Given what Wallace was trying to accomplish, it may not be the best analogy.

I'm really trying to figure out the end game on this one. Are they expecting the electorate to say "Thanks, Governor, my kids didn't need easier access to a doctor!" Then again, most of these guys are GOP. They get into office via voters who are voting against their own self-interest,

What are the legal consequences for governors ignoring federal, SCOTUS-backed law?

Chris Christie was holding off on implementing NJ's part of the deal until the SCOTUS weighed in. I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop here. I'm guessing he's going to make some snide remark but implement the law.

Who knows? He may sit down and pout like the others if he thinks it'll burnish his image among the GOP nationally *coughPresident2016cough*

The whining I'm seeing is almost totally fixated on "tax" "tax" "tax" and a belief that it will cost them "more" in order to support "freeloaders". Basically a complete swallowing of the standard talking points. No indication of awareness of how costs in the current system keep escalating, that people are losing coverage, not able to get coverage, and are being screwed over by the current system, or even admiting that the whole "tax" doesn't kick in unless someone wants to avoid getting with the program. Which, to a degree, is there to prevent someone avoiding their share of paying and then jumping in when it turns out they guessed wrong.

340 boxhead  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 6:28:01am

re: #339 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Yeah... tax on good folks to pay for bad folks is the main focus. They might want to actually learn what ACA does and does not do. But again, the White House MUST do better at dissemination and Citizens MUST be willing to learn.

Which of those are two will be embraced?

341 AK-47%  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 6:30:16am

re: #336 Mattand

What are the legal consequences for governors ignoring federal, SCOTUS-backed law?

AFAIK, if the states don't follow the law, establishing exchanges and expanding medicare, then the Federal Government steps in and takes over, at which point the states complain of "federal thuggery"...

342 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 6:30:29am

re: #335 thedopefishlives

151st Rhode Island, that's a good one. I can just imagine the look on the Rebel soldier's face.

Twenty years ago I wrote an Army Regulation that needed examples from a mythical installation. The last time I looked, there was still reference to Ft. B(enedict) Arnold, Rhode Island, in the subsequent editions of AR 385-10.

343 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 6:37:25am

Testing ... testing ....
Well it seems Firefox 9-ish can handle LGF, though a bit slowly. Really need to bump it up to a gig or two and it'll be a nice little netbook kind of thing so I can go online or stream music when I'm out and about. Not as nice as a refurb Macbook Air, but even with RAM, disk & battery upgrades, it's still a heck of a lot cheaper & FreeBSD is at the base of OS X anyway.

Good Morning, all!

344 Mattand  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 6:44:25am

re: #343 William Barnett-Lewis

Testing ... testing ...
Well it seems Firefox 9-ish can handle LGF, though a bit slowly. Really need to bump it up to a gig or two and it'll be a nice little netbook kind of thing so I can go online or stream music when I'm out and about. Not as nice as a refurb Macbook Air, but even with RAM, disk & battery upgrades, it's still a heck of a lot cheaper & FreeBSD is at the base of OS X anyway.

Good Morning, all!

Yo, yo.

Speaking of browsers:

I switched my dad to Chrome a year or so ago. At first, he loved it due to the speed increase; amazing what having a browser not loaded with toolbars will do for you.

Lately, though, he's been complaining about pages not working. As best as I can tell, he's referring to the "aw snap" error messages when Flash goes wonky.

He's running a 7 year old Dell laptop. Anyone else seeing this?

345 lawhawk  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 6:57:30am

re: #336 Mattand

If the states don't have exchanges in place by 2014, when the individual mandate kicks in, they'll be cut out of the loop and the federal government will impose its own version of the exchanges, with the funding structures intact (the state will have to kick in its set percentage, regardless of whether it acts to impose its own exchange or not).

Some states are going to drag their heels, hoping that Congress reverses its decision to impose the individual mandate and that Romney wins the White House so that the White House doesn't repeal the measure.

Others are moving ahead, since the feds are providing funds to help get the exchanges going. Nearly $1 billion has been distributed thus far, so states that don't get with the program will find themselves shut out on the funds needed to get the exchanges rolling.

Perhaps some states think that this might get the feds to kick in a greater contribution towards the startup costs. They may have a point, but unless Congress pushes the IM deadline back, those states that aren't moving towards an exchange will find themselves in a mess.

Consumers in those states will be at a disadvantage if the states don't get their exchanges going since they'll be without the insurance coverage available to other states. In some places, like LA, TX, and FL, they have the highest rate of uninsureds, which means that a significant portion of the electorate would be voting against their own interest if the IM gets repealed (those states would benefit most from exchanges). But the GOP is trying to capitalize on fear-mongering that the IM is somehow stripping away freedoms, even as they were touting IM as a sign of personal responsibility just a few years ago before President Obama made it part of the health care reform package.

346 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:00:05am

re: #344 Mattand

Yo, yo.

Speaking of browsers:

I switched my dad to Chrome a year or so ago. At first, he loved it due to the speed increase; amazing what having a browser not loaded with toolbars will do for you.

Lately, though, he's been complaining about pages not working. As best as I can tell, he's referring to the "aw snap" error messages when Flash goes wonky.

He's running a 7 year old Dell laptop. Anyone else seeing this?

I get that a fair bit on my Mac as well. Mostly Java applets but often it's Flash too. Make sure both the versions of Chrome & Flash are fully up to date. Sometimes the proverbial restart of Chrome is enough.

But really, Flash has been getting worse the last few releases. It's like they know HTML5 is killing them off and the coders at Adobe stopped caring.

347 lawhawk  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:00:48am

re: #344 Mattand

I've gotten those Flash crash errors with Chrome on occasion, but it's usually insufficient to crash the entire browser - the window just freezes, or it continues without loading/running the Flash applet.

When FF encountered those kinds of errors, it would crash the entire browser after becoming a huge memory hog.

Since switching to Chrome on this computer, it's been a godsend.

348 Shropshire_Slasher  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:07:21am

Zombie Apocolypse continues:
[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]
Dong!
Dong!
Automobile?!

349 AK-47%  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:08:49am
350 lawhawk  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:11:48am

re: #349 Expand Your Ground

10 of 10. Better than 99.7% of the population.

351 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:13:36am

re: #349 Expand Your Ground

Take the HCR quiz

10 out of 10. Take that average America!
:p

352 GunstarGreen  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:14:46am

re: #336 Mattand

I'm really trying to figure out the end game on this one. Are they expecting the electorate to say "Thanks, Governor, my kids didn't need easier access to a doctor!" Then again, most of these guys are GOP. They get into office via voters who are voting against their own self-interest.

They're expecting the electorate to say "Gee, I sure don't want to pay taxes to help those dirty, leechin' brown folks!"

They also expect the electorate to ignore the fact that they already do that via higher healthcare costs to cover all the uncompensated healthcare that happens as a result of the screwed-up insurance industry. Issues that the individual mandate and regulations on billing are intended to address.

353 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:16:56am

re: #350 lawhawk

re: #351 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Ah, I was only 8/10. Bah humbug. Still pretty good, though.

354 lawhawk  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:19:04am

As percentage of GDP, the health care reform isn't anywhere being the biggest tax hike in history. Indeed, it's not even the biggest tax hike from the past 30 years.

Oh, and the individual mandate portion isn't the biggest or widest ranging tax from the reform package. That would be on high-income earners, which would bring in $200 billion over 10 years.

355 darthstar  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:20:03am

re: #222 It's a cookbook!

I would trade six gigs of ram and two cores off my processor if only my PC could have a steering wheel like that.

Agreed.

356 darthstar  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:24:36am

Happy Monday, everyone. Welcome to my vacation week. Yes, I'm actually using one of those four weeks of paid vacation to not go to work, but instead spend that time hanging out with my wife and dogs on the shores of Lake Tahoe. Biking, swimming, fishing...probably a little gambling for mom's birthday on the 4th...and maybe a little drinking...okay, a lot of sitting around drinking...but hey, what's family for?

357 Gus  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:26:10am

re: #355 darthstar

Agreed.

[Link: www.snopes.com...]

358 AK-47%  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:26:31am

re: #353 thedopefishlives

re: #351 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Ah, I was only 8/10. Bah humbug. Still pretty good, though.

I did as well, but did not pay close enough attention to the questions

359 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:27:27am

re: #356 darthstar

Happy Monday, everyone. Welcome to my vacation week. Yes, I'm actually using one of those four weeks of paid vacation to not go to work, but instead spend that time hanging out with my wife and dogs on the shores of Lake Tahoe. Biking, swimming, fishing...probably a little gambling for mom's birthday on the 4th...and maybe a little drinking...okay, a lot of sitting around drinking...but hey, what's family for?

Bailing you out of jail. And being a source of anecdotes as your convince others in the bar that you exist in the midst of a dysfunctional maze of weirdness; most of which share at least part of your genetic code to a closer degree than anyone would desire. ;)

360 darthstar  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:30:47am

re: #357 Gus

[Link: www.snopes.com...]

I still want a fucking steering wheel on my laptop!

361 AK-47%  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:31:44am

It's not a steering wheel, it's a steam pressure release valve...

362 darthstar  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:33:20am

re: #361 Expand Your Ground

It's not a steering wheel, it's a steam pressure release valve...

That's better than a heat sink and a fan...I want a fucking steam pressure release valve on my laptop then.

363 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:34:39am

re: #362 darthstar

That's better than a heat sink and a fan...I want a fucking steam pressure release valve on my laptop then.

My desktop did a smoke release a couple days ago. Looking for an IDE-USB drive enclosure now.

364 AK-47%  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:37:02am

re: #362 darthstar

That's better than a heat sink and a fan...I want a fucking steam pressure release valve on my laptop then.

here's one

365 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:39:28am

Good morning lizards!

I got power Saturday night. It looks like some people around here won't get it until Friday.

366 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:40:18am

Islamists Continue Destroying Timbuktu Heritage
This is the 3rd day. Isn't there a spare drone or two in the region that could sort this out?

367 blueraven  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:40:20am

re: #349 Expand Your Ground

Take the HCR quiz

10 of 10 for me too. But what is disturbing is looking at what the public gets wrong

Top 3:

Will the health reform law cut benefits that were previously provided to all people on Medicare? 40% answered correctly

Will the health reform law require all businesses, even the smallest ones, to provide health insurance for their employees? 25% answered correctly

Will the health reform law create a new government run insurance plan to be offered along with private plans? 27% answered correctly

5 out of the 10 questions are under 50% correctly answered.

368 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:40:39am

ObamaCare is the biggest tax increase in history, except for all the tax increases under Reagan!

369 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:41:06am

re: #365 NJDhockeyfan

Good morning lizards!

I got power Saturday night. It looks like some people around here won't get it until Friday.

Congratulations!

370 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:43:02am

re: #369 Killgore Trout

Congratulations!

I was concerned I wouldn't get it for days. A fresh shower was the best one I had for a long time.

371 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:44:57am

Al Qaeda planning to bomb US plane in run-up to Olympics: report

Intelligence officials have uncovered a new al Qaeda plot to bomb a US passenger jet in the run-up to the London Olympics, according to a new report.

Al Qaeda's Yemen-based terror cell, the same organization behind the 2009 attempted underwear bombing and a similar terror plot uncovered by a CIA informant less than two months ago, is believed to be behind this latest planned attack, according to the Sunday Times of London.

The plan is not specifically targeted to the Olympics, intelligence officials told the paper, and instead should be seen as another attempt by al Qaeda's Yemen affiliate to blow up a US plane.

372 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:47:00am

re: #367 blueraven

5 out of the 10 questions are under 50% correctly answered.

In fairness, the question about small businesses being required to provide health insurance threw even me. It's not something that's spelled out in detail quite as much.

373 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:47:21am

re: #371 NJDhockeyfan

“There is terrorist plotting going on irrespective of the Olympics. The only thing that connects this to the Olympics is the fact that they are about to happen,” said a Whitehall official.

Al Qaeda has recruited a Norwegian convert who goes by the Islamic name of Muslim Abu Abdurrahman at a training camp in Yemen to carry out the plot, the paper reports.

Ah, It's the Norwegian guy for a few weeks ago.

374 Gus  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:47:27am

re: #360 darthstar

I still want a fucking steering wheel on my laptop!

Image: 445389512_2914b86b36.jpg

375 lawhawk  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:48:37am

re: #368 Learned Mother of Zion

As I posted above, the HCR tax hikes aren't even the biggest tax hikes from the past 30 years - the Reagan, Bush I, and Clinton hikes were bigger.

376 AK-47%  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:49:45am

re: #372 thedopefishlives

In fairness, the question about small businesses being required to provide health insurance threw even me. It's not something that's spelled out in detail quite as much.

I got that one wrong, too. It is a key selling point in the "job killer" arguments we are going to be hearing in the near future.

377 lawhawk  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:49:45am

re: #372 thedopefishlives

The key language is all small businesses. Only businesses with 50 or more employees are required to provide insurance to employees (via exchanges if necessary).

378 abolitionist  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:51:41am

re: #218 Varek Raith

Image: oldest-computer.jpg

I have a 2004 home computer and it looks very little like that --except at night with all the power off.

379 blueraven  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:52:06am

re: #372 thedopefishlives

In fairness, the question about small businesses being required to provide health insurance threw even me. It's not something that's spelled out in detail quite as much.

Yes, that's kind of my point. Even well informed people dont know what is in this bill and the republicans have done a great job spreading misinformation.

The democrats, on the other hand, have done a lousy job selling it.

380 HappyWarrior  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:52:32am

9/10. This makes me even more upset that people bought and will continue to buy the TP and GOP bullshit on this legislation. I really hope the Obama campaign and Democrats can get the message out effectively. The people were conned all right not by Obama but by McConnell, Cantor, Boehner, and the GOP presidential candidates.

381 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:54:24am

re: #373 Killgore Trout

Ah, It's the Norwegian guy for a few weeks ago.

How do you keep an eye on everyone's underwear?

382 HappyWarrior  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:54:35am

re: #379 blueraven

Yes, that's kind of my point. Even well informed people dont know what is in this bill and the republicans have done a great job spreading misinformation.

The democrats, on the other hand, have done a lousy job selling it.

Problem with many Democrats is many ran away from it as soon as it became unpopular. Stupid, stupid. This is a piece of legislation that will make thousands of lives better. The Democrats and supporters of the bill need to get that message out to counteract the "OMG it's an attack on our freedom" dishonest people.

383 darthstar  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:56:46am

re: #374 Gus

Image: 445389512_2914b86b36.jpg

That's a laptop on a steering wheel. Jesus...nobody listens anymore.

384 abolitionist  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:58:22am

re: #383 darthstar

That's a laptop on a steering wheel. Jesus...nobody listens anymore.

Suppose it could be tough trying to honk the horn in an emergency.

385 lawhawk  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 7:59:34am

Fact checking Obama and Romney on health care claims.

For those keeping score, the following claims were deemed false:
* Obama has stated some form of "if you're happy with your health insurance, you'll be able to keep it." Nothing in the law states that you will be able to keep your plan; employers can change plans as they see fit (that's no change to the existing system in place)
* Romney's claims that the ACA will add to the deficit are false; it's based on the CBO's worst case scenario, while the CBO middle range figures expect it to cut the deficit over time - assuming that the law doesn't change over time.

True:
* to a degree, Obama's claims that Americans will see rebates for costs already paid. It will be a modest amount for some of those affected by overpayments over time.
* Romney's claims that the ACA will mean $500 billion in tax hikes, though most of that amount falls on high income earners, including $200 billion from additional Medicare payroll tax.
* partially true that the provisions relating to dependents 26 and younger have meant millions have gotten insurance. The figure is probably closer to 3 million, though one study puts it above 6 million (the figure Obama cites).

I'd put this in the indeterminate range:
* Romney's claims that the ACA will kill jobs. It does mean people are more likely to leave the workforce, but not for reasons Romney states. People will no longer continue working because they'll have access to health insurance outside jobs. That potentially opens the door to new employees and more job movement - not necessarily a bad thing. It doesn't reflect that jobs will be destroyed because of the ACA.

386 AK-47%  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:03:46am

re: #384 abolitionist

Suppose it could be tough trying to honk the horn in an emergency.

there's an app for that

387 darthstar  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:08:30am

re: #384 abolitionist

Suppose it could be tough trying to honk the horn in an emergency.

Get off the information superhighway, road hog!

388 HappyWarrior  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:08:56am

I think it'll come down to who can sell the pro or con of the legislation better. I think Obama will do better than Mitt because Mitt will come across as unbelievably insincere calling for the legislation's repeal even as he acknowledges he wants to keep certain popular things such as not allowing insurers to deny based on pre-existing conditions. Plus, there's the elephant in the room that is Romneycare, people will wonder how Mitt could denounce something so remarkable similar to what he did in Massachusetts. Sure some will buy the 10th amendment bullshit that Mitt and his surrogates have tried but the fact is Obama will have an easier time selling keeping ACA than Mitt will repealing it because ultimately the benefits of the legislation are going to become apparent to the public, the fact that USSC upheld its legality makes the legislation alot harder to attack in the ways that worked in 2010 when constitutionality was uncertain. Not sure, this is all a hunch as the bill remains controversial but make no mistake I think Obama's road to re-election just got easier.

389 darthstar  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:09:40am

re: #385 lawhawk

It's okay...Fehrnstrom says the mandate's not a tax...wait, what?

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

390 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:10:48am

re: #385 lawhawk

Fact checking Obama campaign on Romney/Bain job outsourcing claims...

...But after reviewing numerous corporate filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission, contemporary news accounts, company histories and press releases, and the evidence offered by both the Obama and Romney campaigns, we found no evidence to support the claim that Romney — while he was still running Bain Capital — shipped American jobs overseas.

One TV ad, called “Come and Go,” claims that Romney “shipped jobs to China and Mexico.” But two examples cited by the Obama campaign occurred after Romney left Bain. There’s no clear evidence that a third company shipped jobs to China under Romney.

A second ad called “Revealed” mocks Romney’s tough talk about cracking down on China’s trade practices by saying “all he’s ever done is send them our jobs” and citing the Washington Post article. But the newspaper article contained no examples of U.S. jobs being shipped to China while Romney was working at Bain.

The “Come and Go” ad casts Romney as a “corporate raider,” but that term, loaded with negative connotations, is simply inaccurate. Bain didn’t engage in hostile takeovers when Romney was at the helm.

That ad also repeats the claim that as governor of Massachusetts, Romney was “outsourcing state jobs to India.” But it wasn’t the state that outsourced contracts. Rather, Romney vetoed a measure that would have prevented the state from doing business with a state contractor that was locating state customer-service calls in India.

391 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:11:23am

re: #388 HappyWarrior

Obama also has the advantage of digging in the archives and finding a lot of GOP politicians speaking in favor of the various bits before 2008.

392 blueraven  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:15:21am

re: #385 lawhawk

I'd put this in the indeterminate range:
* Romney's claims that the ACA will kill jobs. It does mean people are more likely to leave the workforce, but not for reasons Romney states. People will no longer continue working because they'll have access to health insurance outside jobs. That potentially opens the door to new employees and more job movement - not necessarily a bad thing. It doesn't reflect that jobs will be destroyed because of the ACA.

I have several friends (moms) who worked just to get health insurance when our kids were little. Most of their husbands were self employed but could not afford insurance.
A lot of these women would have rather have stayed home with their children and with day care expenses, they barely came out ahead. But not having health care insurance when you have kids and are not considered poor, is just not an option.

393 HappyWarrior  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:20:24am

re: #391 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Obama also has the advantage of digging in the archives and finding lot of GOP politicians speaking in favor of the various bits before 2008.

Yep. People are going to realize that GOP political opposition to ACA is and I'm putting it kindly here opportunistic. I think it would be a great ad much like Kerry was derided in 2004 for "being for it before he was against it." You can dig up adclips of pretty much any GOP presidential candidate not named Ron Paul supporting a mandate at some point in time.

394 darthstar  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:20:45am

The effects of drugs...on Spongebob.

Image: 484092_263062163794045_975660507_n.jpg

395 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:27:46am

Today's outrageous outrage seems to be something about Mitt selling aborted fetuses. OMG!

396 lawhawk  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:27:46am

re: #389 darthstar

Yeah, both Romney and Obama are using virtually identical talking points re: Mass Care and the PPACA respectively.

Not surprising since the signature legislation in Mass. was the basis for the PPACA's individual mandate provisions.

Note too that Mass. has one of the lowest rates of uninsureds in the nation, while states that are busy complaining loudly about the mandate are among those with the highest rates of uninsureds.

Some of that is they will have to kick in a bunch of money to cover their portion of the expanded coverage, but it also means that Texas, Louisiana and Florida will end up reducing the percentage of uninsured significantly (those three are among the worst in the nation, so have the most to gain from expanding access to insurance).

397 sattv4u2  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:27:46am

re: #392 blueraven

I have several friends

Braggart!!
//

398 HappyWarrior  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:30:36am

re: #395 Killgore Trout

Today's outrageous outrage seems to be something about Mitt selling aborted fetuses. OMG!

I don't particularly care, but if he's selling himself as anti abortion, don't you see why that's just a little hypocritical? "I'm against abortion, I'm okay with profiting from it though."

399 dragonfire1981  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:30:54am

Just when I thought I'd heard everything:

There is apparently a fringe group in Canada with the stated goal of bringing "U.S. style health care" up North.

Yeah, good luck with that...

400 HappyWarrior  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:32:38am

re: #399 dragonfire1981

Just when I thought I'd heard everything:

There is apparently a fringe group in Canada with the stated goal of bringing "U.S. style health care" up North.

Yeah, good luck with that...

Isn't the Canadian health care system even popular among Canadian conservatives or maybe that was UK conservatives. I always see it pointed out that even Thatcher was okay with the system because she saw its efficiency.

401 iossarian  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:33:29am

re: #395 Killgore Trout

Today's outrageous outrage seems to be something about Mitt selling aborted fetuses. OMG!

What's great about this is that I wouldn't even have noticed the story had you not tried to MBF it away.

So Romney was part of Bain's investment in a horrifically evil company* and then lied about it. SOP I suppose. The GOP will ignore it because IOKIYAAR and to anyone who's paying attention it's further confirmation that Republican politicians are money-loving hypocrites.

* according to the GOP had this been something that a Democrat had been involved in

402 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:34:03am

it's monday morning. . . .

YOU?

403 sattv4u2  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:34:07am

re: #393 HappyWarrior

You can dig up adclips of pretty much any GOP presidential candidate not named Ron Paul supporting a mandate at some point in time.

Careful there. That knife cuts both ways

The Senator Obama arguing against mandating buying insurance and fines for not buying it

404 blueraven  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:36:36am

re: #395 Killgore Trout

Today's outrageous outrage seems to be something about Mitt selling aborted fetuses. OMG!

I think the bigger outrage...at least for republicans is that Mitt Romney doesn't think the mandate is a tax. He thinks it is a fee or penalty. He agrees with Obama.

405 sattv4u2  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:37:19am

re: #395 Killgore Trout

Today's outrageous outrage seems to be something about Mitt selling aborted fetuses. OMG!

heh

George Carlin on birth control pills and how they should be marketed

NO FETUS CAN BEAT US
PREG-NOT


406 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:37:28am

re: #394 darthstar

The effects of drugs...on Spongebob.

Image: 484092_263062163794045_975660507_n.jpg

I don't know what 1/2 those drugs are.

I feel soooo old.

407 lawhawk  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:38:13am

re: #403 sattv4u2

The spin that the President could put on it is that he didn't think it went far enough to contain costs or similar arguments.

Romney's in a tougher position since he established a program that has the same look/feel as the PPACA. It's tougher for him to distance himself from individual mandates than it is for Obama to distance himself from his prior position.

That's also why Romney is toning down his rhetoric on repealing Obamacare; he's now saying he would move to preserve some of the options, including expanding coverage to dependents 26 and under.

There's quite a bit of stuff that most people find acceptable, but somehow the IM got castigated. It's not even the biggest tax component of the entire PPACA; that would be the portion of taxes imposed on on high-income earners, including the Medicare payroll tax expansion.

408 iossarian  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:40:16am

re: #404 blueraven

I think the bigger outrage...at least for republicans is that Mitt Romney doesn't think the mandate is a tax. He thinks it is a fee or penalty. He agrees with Obama.

The tax/penalty debate is yet another attempt by Obama's opponents to talk about anything except whether the policy helps people (hint: this is because it does).

The semantics are irrelevant. The policy does many things but in this instance it prevents free riderism and provides affordable healthcare. Thus it is a good thing.

409 HappyWarrior  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:42:13am

re: #407 lawhawk

The spin that the President could put on it is that he didn't think it went far enough to contain costs or similar arguments.

Romney's in a tougher position since he established a program that has the same look/feel as the PPACA. It's tougher for him to distance himself from individual mandates than it is for Obama to distance himself from his prior position.

That's also why Romney is toning down his rhetoric on repealing Obamacare; he's now saying he would move to preserve some of the options, including expanding coverage to dependents 26 and under.

There's quite a bit of stuff that most people find acceptable, but somehow the IM got castigated. It's not even the biggest tax component of the entire PPACA; that would be the portion of taxes imposed on on high-income earners, including the Medicare payroll tax expansion.

Plus, he had wanted the public option but if you recall the Blue Dogs poo-pooed that. He may not have wanted the mandate but I think he was willing to compromise to get the bill passed and the mandate's inclusion is part of why it passed the House. I think that's different than embracing the idea of a mandate than running away from it because a guy you dislike is president. And Romney's "Let's repeal but keep the popular stuff" is just dishonest.

410 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:42:30am

It's about Power for Men, not G-d.


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It is a terrible thing when a once-noble phrase gets beaten to a meaningless pulp. The time has now come to rescue the phrase "religious freedom" from its abusers. In the writings and speeches of Catholic bishops and evangelical leaders in recent months, "religious freedom" has come to mean something close to its opposite. It now stands for "religious privilege". It is a coded way for them to state their demand that religious institutions should be allowed special powers that exempt them from the laws of the land.

411 blueraven  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:42:37am

re: #408 iossarian

The tax/penalty debate is yet another attempt by Obama's opponents to talk about anything except whether the policy helps people (hint: this is because it does).

The semantics are irrelevant. The policy does many things but in this instance it prevents free riderism and provides affordable healthcare. Thus it is a good thing.

Agreed! This puts Romney in a real pickle though, having to defend his mandate as a fee and going against the republican talking points.

412 darthstar  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:43:49am

re: #395 Killgore Trout

Today's outrageous outrage seems to be something about Mitt selling aborted fetuses. OMG!

He didn't sell aborted fetuses. He just profited from investing in a company that disposed of them. And then he lied about it in the GOP primary because he was battling Santorum and Gingrich at the time.

Romney's a lying cocksucker...that's what he does best (lie...you'll have to wait until after the election to hear about the other)...yet another lie just caught up with him...and this one won't make his anti-choice supporters very happy.

413 darthstar  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:44:52am

Time to get ready for the road...have a good day all.

414 Mattand  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:46:11am

re: #363 Decatur Deb

My desktop did a smoke release a couple days ago. Looking for an IDE-USB drive enclosure now.

Would this help?

415 Mattand  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:50:32am

re: #345 lawhawk

Thanks for the info. It unfortunately reinforces my opinion that people like Jindal are willing to jeopardize their citizens' health in the name of hurting Obama.

416 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:50:45am

It's the first of the month --where did June go? I seem to have misplaced it somewhere.

417 sattv4u2  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:52:15am

re: #416 ggt

It's the first of the month --where did June go? I seem to have misplaced it somewhere.

INSTRUCTIONS

Go to wall
Find calender
Flip back one page

418 HappyWarrior  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:53:17am

re: #415 Mattand

Thanks for the info. It unfortunately reinforces my opinion that people like Jindal are willing to jeopardize their citizens' health in the name of hurting Obama.

In that case, we hope for a backlash. It's unbelievable how governors like Jindal can call this an assault on our freedom and liberty while at the same time signing and supporting legislation that is intended to guilt trip women during legal operations.

419 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:56:50am

Iranian General: Israeli Attack Would “Hand Us An Excuse” to Wipe Israel Off the Map

Any attack on Iran by Israel would “hand us an excuse to wipe them off the face of the earth,” Iranian Revolutionary Guard General Amir Ali Hajizadeh said Sunday.

Hajizadeh, announcing three days of missile tests by Iran, said the exercises should be seen as a message “that the Islamic Republic of Iran is resolute in standing up to … bullying, and will respond to any possible evil decisively and strongly,” according to the IRNA news agency.

420 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:57:26am
421 AK-47%  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:57:46am

re: #420 Killgore Trout

Mistranslation!
/

rhetoric

422 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 8:59:31am

re: #421 Expand Your Ground

rhetoric

Taken out of context!
/

423 AK-47%  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:00:08am

re: #422 NJDhockeyfan

Taken out of context!
/

they know it ain't gonna happen so they can pose and posture all they want

424 lawhawk  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:00:35am

Today, former Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir was laid to rest. I remember meeting him in person in 1993, and listening to him talk about Israel, peace with the Palestinians, and his vision for Israel.

He was involved in Israeli politics since its founding, and he was among the last of the old guard with connections to the founding.

425 sattv4u2  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:00:53am

re: #421 Expand Your Ground

rhetoric

It's all rhetoric, until one of them says "hold my beer, I want to try something"

//

426 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:04:26am
427 sattv4u2  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:04:46am

re: #420 Killgore Trout

Miss Translation!
/

I tried to date her once, but we didn't communicate real well!!

/

428 AK-47%  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:07:15am

re: #427 sattv4u2

I tried to date her once, but we didn't communicate real well!!

/

Should've gone out with Miss Information

429 sattv4u2  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:08:56am

re: #428 Expand Your Ground

Should've gone out with Miss Information

I tried, but the address she gave me to meet her at was a vacant lot and the phone # she gave me wasn't in service!

430 AK-47%  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:09:46am

No, that was just Miss Construed

431 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:10:33am

re: #429 sattv4u2

I tried, but the address she gave me to meet her at was a vacant lot and the phone # she gave me wasn't in service!

That wasn't Miss Information, that was Miss Direction.

432 sattv4u2  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:10:42am

We're gonna need a bigger boat!

Cape Cod holiday-makers told to beware as 16ft great white shark is spotted off coast

Read more: [Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]

433 sattv4u2  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:11:05am

re: #430 Expand Your Ground

No, that was just Miss Construed

Nahh,,, we never had sex!!!

/

434 sattv4u2  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:11:26am

re: #431 ggt

That wasn't Miss Information, that was Miss Direction.

WAY to go!!!

435 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:12:15am

re: #434 sattv4u2

WAY to go!!!

It's still morning.

436 sattv4u2  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:12:42am

re: #435 ggt

It's still morning.

I thought it was July!

437 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:13:10am

re: #436 sattv4u2

I thought it was July!

You are WAY to chipper for a Monday Morning.

438 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:15:59am

sumpsimus --kinda rolls off the tongue, doesn't it.

Hope I can remember it when certain people are posting.

439 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:18:38am

re: #436 sattv4u2

I thought it was July!

It's the first working day of the month. Yesterday was broken.

440 Kronocide  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:18:43am

Meanwhile, 75 million light years ago....

Seventy-five million light years ago an alien dictator called Lord Xenu led an empire of 76 planets including Earth called the Galactic Federation. He ordered a cull of humans, and their souls, called Thetans were shipped to Earth.

Editing, you're doing it wrong.

441 sattv4u2  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:21:50am

re: #439 ggt

It's the first working day of the month. Yesterday was broken.

Not for me

Did 10 hours at work yesterday, and we didn't even have any Wimbledon transmissions to do!

442 lawhawk  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:21:57am

re: #440 Kronocide

Did they do the Kessel run under 12 parsecs? /

443 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:22:23am

Gunmen barrage 2 Kenya churches, killing at least 15

NAIROBI — Masked gunmen sprayed bullets and hurled grenades at two churches in a northern Kenyan town on Sunday, killing at least 15 people and injuring scores more, police officials said.

It was the latest in a series of attacks on this East African nation suspected of possibly being carried out by al-Qaida militants in neighboring Somalia or their sympathizers.

The assaults unfolded in the town of Garissa, a predominantly Muslim enclave about 120 miles from the Somalia border that Kenyan forces have used as a base of operations to fight Somalia’s Al-Shabab militia.

“They just walked in and shot the people inside the church after they killed the policemen guarding the entrance,” said Philip Ndolo, the regional deputy police chief, blaming the attacks on “goons.”

The attacks occurred two days after gunmen kidnapped four aid workers from Kenya’s Dadaab refugee camp, about 60 miles from Garissa, and killed their driver before fleeing into Somalia.

444 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:29:15am

re: #441 sattv4u2

Not for me

Did 10 hours at work yesterday, and we didn't even have any Wimbledon transmissions to do!

What about the Outer Hebrides?

445 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:30:26am

bbl

446 sattv4u2  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:31:17am

re: #444 ggt

What about the Outer Hebrides?

Take two shots of penicillin and call me in the morning

Oh ,, and wear something to cover them up

447 Simply Sarah  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:32:35am

And I survive another instance of helping out in preparing for a party at my parents' house where my mom stresses the hell out over making sure there is enough food to feed at least three times as many guests as we will actually have and plans activities that people will never get to. Alas, my attempts to keep her more even-keeled this time did not seem to help much.

448 AK-47%  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:35:00am

re: #444 ggt

What about the Outer Hebrides?

Is that a new type of automobile?

449 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:35:37am

Things are still on edge at the Turkish/Syrian border.

Turkey scrambles jets to counter Syrian copters

ANKARA - Turkey scrambled six F-16 fighter jets in three separate incidents responding to Syrian military helicopters approaching the border on Sunday, its armed forces command said on Monday.

It was the second time in as many days Turkish jets were launched in response to Syrian helicopters flying near the border and comes after a Turkish reconnaissance plane was shot down by Syria late last month.

The jets took off from Incirlik air base in southern Turkey after Syrian helicopters were spotted flying south of the Turkish province of Hatay, the chief of general staff said on the military’s website.

Two helicopters had come within 4km and one had come within 3.2km of the border, it said. Two of the helicopters were MI-8 type aircraft and one was an MI-17, all Russian-built transport helicopters.

On Sunday, Turkey said it had scrambled six F-16s near its border with Syria after similar transport helicopters were spotted flying either within 6.4km of the border or “close” to the border.

450 sattv4u2  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:37:29am

re: #447 Simply Sarah

And I survive another instance of helping out in preparing for a party at my parents' house where my mom stresses the hell out over making sure there is enough food to feed at least three times as many guests as we will actually have and plans activities that people will never get to. Alas, my attempts to keep her more even-keeled this time did not seem to help much.

Her House
Her Party
Her Stress

(just sayin)

Just try to pitch in however/wherever she needs it most. Anything more than that just adds to the stress level

(taken from the BT/DT, learned my lesson files)

451 Simply Sarah  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:42:18am

re: #450 sattv4u2

Her House
Her Party
Her Stress

(just sayin)

Just try to pitch in however/wherever she needs it most. Anything more than that just adds to the stress level

(taken from the BT/DT, learned my lesson files)

I do what I can to help or, if there is nothing I can assist in at the moment, stay out of the way. But it's not easy to not try to calm her down when she's caught up in trying to make everything perfect.

452 sattv4u2  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:44:00am

re: #451 Simply Sarah

I do what I can to help or, if there is nothing I can assist in at the moment, stay out of the way. But it's not easy to not try to calm her down when she's caught up in trying to make everything perfect.

I'm sure it's not the 1st time she's done that (her personality, I'm guessing) and I'm also assuming she's survived all the other times

As stated, anything more just adds to the stress level.

453 Simply Sarah  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:47:54am

re: #452 sattv4u2

I'm sure it's not the 1st time she's done that (her personality, I'm guessing) and I'm also assuming she's survived all the other times

As stated, anything more just adds to the stress level.

She's always like this. That's the problem. I'm the same way, although way, way less so than I used to be. But I know what she's feeling and I know that I needed people to talk me down at times too.

454 AK-47%  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:48:28am

re: #447 Simply Sarah

Remember from sister-in-law's wedding in Scotland. It is a great tradition that the bride's family plans and throws the wedding celebrations.
But sis-in-law organized (or rather dis-organized) everything in her own personal style, but mom-in-law still somehow felt responsible for it all and was all apologetic for everything that was not up to (her) standards...

455 sattv4u2  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:52:06am

re: #453 Simply Sarah

She's always like this. That's the problem. I'm the same way, although way, way less so than I used to be. But I know what she's feeling and I know that I needed people to talk me down at times too.

So here's what I do

Pick the battles

Whats the WORST case scenario in this one? She has lots of extra food left over?
Donate it to a shelter after the party. In fact, call shelters now and see what their policies are for left overs. Gives you something to do/ contribute that she'll end up being thankful for (after the party as she looks at all the leftovers and frets "what am I going to do with all this food",,,, TADA,, you to the rescue)


She has activities that will be ignored?
So,,, the other activities will be used. She'll be happy to see that

Not battles worth fretting over, imho

456 Simply Sarah  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:54:28am

re: #455 sattv4u2

So here's what I do

Pick the battles

Whats the WORST case scenario in this one? She has lots of extra food left over?
Donate it to a shelter after the party. In fact, call shelters now and see what their policies are for left overs. Gives you something to do/ contribute that she'll end up being thankful for (after the party as she looks at all the leftovers and frets "what am I going to do with all this food",,, TADA,, you to the rescue)

She has activities that will be ignored?
So,,, the other activities will be used. She'll be happy to see that

Not battles worth fretting over, imho

I suppose. I just hate to see her stressed out!

457 sattv4u2  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:57:12am

re: #456 Simply Sarah

I suppose. I just hate to see her stressed out!

I'm sure you do. But as you stated, it's part of her (and you) and she's survived other times like this
Trying to talk someone like that off the ledge at that time just adds to their stress from my experiences. Again, the "worst case" scenarios for this instance (extra food,, unused activities) aren't bad enough to add to that stress level by arguing about them beforehand

458 Simply Sarah  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 10:00:08am

re: #457 sattv4u2

I'm sure you do. But as you stated, it's part of her (and you) and she's survived other times like this
Trying to talk someone like that off the ledge at that time just adds to their stress from my experiences. Again, the "worst case" scenarios for this instance (extra food,, unused activities) aren't bad enough to add to that stress level by arguing about them beforehand

Well, understand that part of my actions are the fact that I've really been able to mellow myself out the last few years. I sort of wish the same thing could happen with her, even though I understand I'm a different woman than my mom is. I just know that I'm way happier after learning to take things in stride a bit better (Well, and my entire life situation has also improved, but that's another story for another time).

459 bernielomax  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 10:01:08am

hey everyone what to make of Stephen Moore stating that 75% of Ocare taxes fall on the middle class? It wont for me bcuz im a teacher and in the NEA. Are those " middle class" families going to have more money or less after payday? again im just wondering

460 sattv4u2  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 10:01:40am

re: #458 Simply Sarah

I'm way happier after learning to take things in stride a bit better

Then take this in stride

As I 1st stated

Her House
Her Party
Her Stress

461 HappyWarrior  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 10:01:49am

re: #459 bernielomax

hey everyone what to make of Stephen Moore stating that 75% of Ocare taxes fall on the middle class? It wont for me bcuz im a teacher and in the NEA. Are those " middle class" families going to have more money or less after payday? again im just wondering

Stephen Moore? The Club for Growth guy? I'd take anything he says with a grain of salt honest.

462 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 10:02:28am

Obvious troll gets more obvious by the minute.

463 sattv4u2  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 10:02:39am

And on that note, off to stimulate the economy!!!

464 Eventual Carrion  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 10:10:51am

re: #459 bernielomax

hey everyone what to make of Stephen Moore stating that 75% of Ocare taxes fall on the middle class? It wont for me bcuz im a teacher and in the NEA. Are those " middle class" families going to have more money or less after payday? again im just wondering

Will the tax be more than $975.00 a month? If not, I will be saving money from what my insurance premiums (just premiums, not out of pocket deductibles that is added on) cost me now (which have been going up steadily for the last 7-8 years).

465 Simply Sarah  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 10:14:59am

re: #460 sattv4u2

I'm way happier after learning to take things in stride a bit better

Then take this in stride

As I 1st stated

Her House
Her Party
Her Stress

Bah! :P

466 A Mom Anon  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 10:21:40am

re: #459 bernielomax

Oh come on.

My son is autistic and just turned 18. If my husband and I were to have to go buy a stand alone policy just for him(medical and dental)it would run us around 10-12K a year. And that's a "cheap" plan with a high deductible. How the hell is that a good thing? Now we can keep him on our plan and not have an uninsured kid.

Steve Moore is a hack. He's a bought and paid for shill for the insurance industry. Go to healthcare.gov and read the damned thing and inform yourself.

467 gwangung  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 10:25:19am

re: #459 bernielomax

hey everyone what to make of Stephen Moore stating that 75% of Ocare taxes fall on the middle class? It wont for me bcuz im a teacher and in the NEA. Are those " middle class" families going to have more money or less after payday? again im just wondering

Y'all don't read very much, can't do math and think we are all a bunch of idiots.

You'd do better by saying "evolution doesn't work!"

468 Mattand  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:12:37am

re: #462 Charles Johnson

Obvious troll gets more obvious by the minute.

I get the feeling that at one point in the recent past, bernie was just "asking questions" about Obama's birth certificate.


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