House Majority Leader Eric Cantor on ‘Obamacare’: ‘Let’s Call a Spade a Spade’

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Wingnuts • Views: 34,119

About two hours ago, House Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-Virginia) posted the following comment on Twitter:

I’m using my retweet, because Cantor has now deleted it from Twitter. But it’s still visible at many other sites, for example: Yfrog - Eric Cantor - @GOPLeader.

A screenshot:

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140 comments
1 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:09:50am

Mmm ... subtle.

2 erik_t  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:10:02am

Is this phrasing objectionable? I'm assuming it is...?

Honest to FSM, if it is I've never heard of it.

3 Four More Tears  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:10:57am

I honestly don't think he meant it it like that.

4 HappyWarrior  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:11:04am

Let's also call Eric Cantor out too, he decries "socialized medicine" yet has no problem using it as health insurance for him and his own family.

5 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:12:04am

re: #3 It's a cookbook!

I honestly don't think he meant it it like that.

It's what we call a dickish entendre.

6 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:12:05am

I'm waaayyyy past the point where I give Republican politicians the benefit of the doubt for this kind of stuff.

7 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:14:32am

just don't go there...this is the cycle: they bait the public with a statement like that and then come away all butt-hurt for people calling them out on a "mere metaphor".

8 allegro  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:16:49am

Kinda like the "lipstick on a pig" statement by Obama, I see this particular cliche as just what it is, a common usage phrase. I gotta give the guy a pass on this one.

9 Mattand  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:17:10am

re: #2 erik_t

Is this phrasing objectionable? I'm assuming it is...?

Honest to FSM, if it is I've never heard of it.

Don't know the origin, but calling a black person a spade is a long standing slur.

The fact that a Southern GOP politician would use that while talking about the first black President? I think Rep. Cantor's Tweet deletion speaks for itself

10 uncah91  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:17:16am

Hmm. I'd never thought of the idiom as having anything to do with race. Wikipedia says it is now avoided for having a potentially racist connotation, but I wouldn't have thought twice about it.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar...

11 erik_t  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:20:26am

re: #9 Mattand

Don't know the origin, but calling a black person a spade is a long standing slur.

The fact that a Southern GOP politician would use that while talking about the first black President? I think Rep. Cantor's Tweet deletion speaks for itself

Let's be fair. He's from Northern Virginia, not from Alassissippi.

I'm sure he deleted it because it could be construed as offensive, but I'm still not cynical enough to assume that he was playing off of a slur I've honestly never heard of.

12 blueraven  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:20:29am

A bit OT but speaking of the "young gun" conservatives

Remember this guy?

CPAC's boy wonder swings left

Jonathan Krohn took the political world by storm at 2009’s Conservative Political Action Conference when, at just 13 years old, he delivered an impromptu rallying cry for conservatism that became a viral hit and had some pegging him as a future star of the Republican Party.

Now 17, Krohn — who went on to write a book, “Defining Conservatism,” that was blurbed by the likes of Newt Gingrich and Bill Bennett — still watches that speech from time to time, but it mostly makes him cringe because, well, he’s not a conservative anymore.

“I think it was naive,” Krohn now says of the speech. “It’s a 13-year-old kid saying stuff that he had heard for a long time.… I live in Georgia. We’re inundated with conservative talk in Georgia.… The speech was something that a 13-year-old does. You haven’t formed all your opinions. You’re really defeating yourself if you think you have all of your ideas in your head when you were 12 or 13. It’s impossible. You haven’t done enough.”

Read more: [Link: www.politico.com...]

This is what they get for using children to advance their agenda in the first place!

13 HappyWarrior  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:20:30am

Fact that he deleted it is suspicious. Though I don't know if he meant anything racial by it. But I completely understand those that do think he did.

14 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:20:36am

Cantor is the representative from Virginia. He knows exactly what it means when you use the word "spade."

This is about as innocent as a bank robbery.

15 uncah91  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:21:08am

re: #9 Mattand

Don't know the origin, but calling a black person a spade is a long standing slur.

The fact that a Southern GOP politician would use that while talking about the first black President? I think Rep. Cantor's Tweet deletion speaks for itself

I'm not sure. It seems to me that the deletion might just mean that they realized it could be taken the wrong way.

That's very different from the standard "what do you mean that witch doctor photo is racist, sorry if anyone was offended" non-apology that is normal in these cases.

16 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:21:23am

I promise you, if you use this expression in the presence of African Americans, you'll find out REALLY quickly how "innocent" it is.

17 GunstarGreen  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:22:49am

Live in Georgia, have nearly all my life, never heard of "spade" being a racially-charged insult. Have heard "call a spade a spade" as a generic "we know what's going on here" phrase. Probably got deleted when an aide or somebody said "Oh shit, that may have racial connotations", but I don't believe it was intended that way.

Ceci n'est pas une outrage.

18 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:23:29am

When Oscar Wilde used the line "When I see a spade, I call it a spade" in "The Importance of Being Ernest," was he being racist?

//

19 HappyWarrior  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:23:30am

re: #11 erik_t

Let's be fair. He's from Northern Virginia, not from Alassissippi.

I'm sure he deleted it because it could be construed as offensive, but I'm still not cynical enough to assume that he was playing off of a slur I've honestly never heard of.

He's from closer to Richmond than NoVa. Just pointing that out. Also George Allen was from Irvine, Ca and he still was much more prone to racial bigoted attitudes than John Warner who's from Winchester. Just pointing out Cantor's origin is irrelevant.

20 uncah91  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:23:31am

I've lived in NC since I was 6 (36 years and counting) and I've never heard a black person referred to as a spade. Granted, it's been all the Triangle region (liberal enclave), but still...

21 HappyWarrior  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:24:32am

I've never heard it either but I live in NoVa.

22 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:25:09am

Talking points disseminated: Claim you live in the South and have never heard the term.

LOL.

23 Mattand  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:25:22am

re: #16 Charles Johnson

I promise you, if you use this expression in the presence of African Americans, you'll find out REALLY quickly how "innocent" it is.

Seriously, folks, listen to Charles. It's a slur. An odious one, at that.

Trust me, I've had far more contact with that word used as an insult than I care to admit, and I'm from South Jersey. Cantor was seeing how long he could rile up the base with a dog whistle bullhorn.

24 erik_t  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:25:43am

I'm stepping back from this one. I have no interest in dueling anecdotes.

Happy afternoon, everyone.

25 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:26:00am

re: #18 Learned Mother of Zion

The phrase did not originally have a racist connotation, but there's absolutely no doubt that it does now.

For example, every time I quote those racist comments from Breitbart or Fox Nation, one of the cavemen thinks it's really funny to say "let's call a spade a spade." The racists sure know what it means.

26 scogind  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:26:50am

re: #6 Charles Johnson

I'm waaayyy past the point where I give Republican politicians the benefit of the doubt for this kind of stuff.

Cantor was talking about Obamacare. Use some of the same "critical thinking" you used in the Joe Williams posts at the bottom of your page, Charles.

27 Bulworth  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:27:19am
ObamaCare is a massive tax.

No, it's not.

28 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:27:44am

re: #26 scogind

Is that butthurt I hear?

29 GunstarGreen  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:28:07am

re: #22 goddamnedfrank

Talking points disseminated: Claim you live in the South and have never heard the term.

LOL.

Yes, I'm a very well known racist that constantly defends the right wing.

You know, it is entirely possible that some people have not had the same experiences that you have. Maybe I just don't hang out with enough racist assholes to have heard it used that way.

30 Mattand  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:28:57am

re: #26 scogind

Cantor was talking about Obamacare. Use some of the same "critical thinking" you used in the Joe Williams posts at the bottom of your page, Charles.

Horse.
Shit.

There was plenty of ways Cantor could criticize ACA without using that phrase.

31 uncah91  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:29:06am

re: #23 Mattand

Seriously, folks, listen to Charles. It's a slur. An odious one, at that.

Trust me, I've had far more contact with that wold used as an insult than I care to admit, and I'm from South Jersey. Cantor was seeing how long he could rile up the base with a dog whistle bullhorn.

Well, maybe it's actually a north-eastern slur.

Just a thought.

32 scogind  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:29:09am

Oh, one more thing. Thanks for proving the point I made in my comment in the Joe Williams post.

33 b_sharp  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:29:11am

This is more an example of how our language is still full of biases and bigotry. I doubt the man was using the phrase as it was used decades ago, but because we have so many bits and pieces of our language that are remnants of a time when women, gays, and minorities were accepted as lower life forms, we still trip over their use.

What really bothers me is the failure of so many, usually by people on the conservative side, to recognize the power of language and the need to re-engineer society to either modify the use of such language or to abandon it for less biased and bigoted language.

34 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:29:13am

re: #27

Call it a tax, call it a fee, call it a down payment on emergency medical services we provide to the uninsured. It is a necessary part of the package.

And one that Mitt Romney approved of and inplemented in his home state.

So what is the problem beyond the idological one?

35 Randall Gross  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:29:42am

I've heard spade used in a racist way in Texas, North Carolina (Fayetteville, Charlotte, Greensville) South Carolina (Myrtle Beach) Texas (Houston, Austin, Dallas,) Georgia (Atlanta), & Missouri (Branson, Forsythe, Sprinfield, Joplin, Kansas City, etc. etc.) so I figure that the commenters above professing to be from the South lead amazingly cloistered lives.

36 Mattand  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:30:54am

re: #31 uncah91

Well, maybe it's actually a north-eastern slur.

Just a thought.

Could be. The better half is from the south. I'll run it by her.

Regardless of its origin, this is not an innocent mistake on Cantor's part. Not by a long shot.

37 blueraven  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:30:56am

I grew up in Georgia and heard African Americans referred to as "spades" all the time. Although in my circle is was not meant as derogatory, just a "hip" term to describe one of your friends.

I also heard others use it as a racial slur. So it was a mixed bag.

This was in the 70s, so a lot has changed, obviously.

38 teresa  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:31:00am

Charles is 100% correct when he asserts that Cantor knew exactly what he wrote.

39 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:31:23am

Comes from the phrase "black as the ace of spades" and is common usage where I grew up in NW Indiana.

40 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:32:30am

In a way, I wish I could still be naive enough to believe Eric Cantor didn't know exactly what he was saying. But this kind of deniable racist dog whistling has become so amazingly common on the right wing, I just can't do that any more.

41 HappyWarrior  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:33:01am

re: #40 Charles Johnson

In a way, I wish I could still be naive enough to believe Eric Cantor didn't know exactly what he was saying. But this kind of deniable racist dog whistling has become so amazingly common on the right wing, I just can't do that any more.

I don't blame you. I feel the same way when I hear Romney claim Obama's "never had a real job" before.

42 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:33:12am

There is a song "Colored Spade" from the 1967 musical "Hair" that takes every ethnic slur used against African-Americans and puts it into one song.

At work now so I can't search for it on YouTube.

43 uncah91  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:33:15am

re: #35 Randall Gross

I've heard spade used in a racist way in Texas, North Carolina (Fayetteville, Charlotte, Greensville) South Carolina (Myrtle Beach) Texas (Houston, Austin, Dallas,) Georgia (Atlanta), & Missouri (Branson, Forsythe, Sprinfield, Joplin, Kansas City, etc. etc.) so I figure that the commenters above professing to be from the South lead amazingly cloistered lives.

Maybe.

Or, maybe I just heard n***** this and n****** that. Pretty much people didn't beat around the bush to insult black people, they went straight to the worst thing they could.

44 b_sharp  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:33:22am

re: #13 HappyWarrior

Fact that he deleted it is suspicious. Though I don't know if he meant anything racial by it. But I completely understand those that do think he did.

If he was confident in his use of the phrase he would likely have left it. I suspect he was reminded what the phrase meant and realizing the implication about him, he removed it.

45 Randall Gross  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:34:18am

With more thinking I've also heard the term used to refer to a black person instead of a shovel or a playing card in Pikeville NC, Wilmington, and in Reston, VA.

46 HappyWarrior  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:34:37am

re: #44 b_sharp

If he was confident in his use of the phrase he would likely have left it. I suspect he was reminded what the phrase meant and realizing the implication about him, he removed it.

I think so yeah. I really had no idea the phrase was a slur before today. Had never heard it before is all. I'd think Cantor would know better though considering where he's from.

47 uncah91  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:35:03am

re: #40 Charles Johnson

In a way, I wish I could still be naive enough to believe Eric Cantor didn't know exactly what he was saying. But this kind of deniable racist dog whistling has become so amazingly common on the right wing, I just can't do that any more.

I think Cantor is perfectly capable of doing that.

But if he intended it, I think he would have left it and acted all righteously offended that the race card was being played.

48 HappyWarrior  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:35:14am

re: #45 Randall Gross

With more thinking I've also heard the term used to refer to a black person instead of a shovel or a playing card in Pikeville NC, Wilmington, and in Reston, VA.

Reston? Small world, I grew up near there.

49 Mattand  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:35:59am

re: #47 uncah91

I think Cantor is perfectly capable of doing that.

But if he intended it, I think he would have left it and acted all righteously offended that the race card was being played.

I'm sure there will be a "Sorry if you were offended by what I wrote" non-apology in the near future.

50 Randall Gross  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:35:59am

re: #43 uncah91

Well that could be -- but it is a term used by racists who have to circulate & work with non racists - e.g. you will hear it near any army base.

51 Lidane  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:36:10am

Let's call a spade a spade: Eric Cantor is an insufferable douche.

52 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:36:35am

Quite a few slurs seem to be limited to certain regions. In my experience, "spade" as a slur is not common in the south. It seems to be more prevalent in the northeast and upper midwest. TV's Archie Bunker was one noted user.

wikipedia, "To call a spade a spade"

The phrase was introduced to English in 1542 in Nicolas Udall's translation of Erasmus, Apophthegmes, that is to saie, prompte saiynges. First gathered by Erasmus:

Philippus aunswered, that the Macedonians wer feloes of no fyne witte in their termes but altogether grosse, clubbyshe, and rusticall, as they whiche had not the witte to calle a spade by any other name then a spade.

It is evident that the word spade refers to the instrument used to move earth, a very common tool. The same word was used in England and in Holland, Erasmus' country of origin.
The Oxford English Dictionary records a more forceful variant, "to call a spade a bloody shovel", attested since 1919.
The phrase predates the use of the word "spade" as an ethnic slur against African Americans, which was not recorded until 1928; however, in contemporary U.S. society, the idiom is often avoided due to potential confusion with the slur and/or confusion with playing card references such as "black as the ace of spades".

53 Simply Sarah  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:36:44am

re: #25 Charles Johnson

The phrase did not originally have a racist connotation, but there's absolutely no doubt that it does now.

For example, every time I quote those racist comments from Breitbart or Fox Nation, one of the cavemen thinks it's really funny to say "let's call a spade a spade." The racists sure know what it means.

I'd view this slightly differently. I would say that there's absolutely no doubt that it can have it now. Now, for that reason it should generally be avoided, since if you never say it then no one ever needs to try and figure out what your thinking was behind it and no one will be made uncomfortable/upset. But it still has a good deal of use by people intending its more tradition meaning and that have no idea that there may be any sort of potential racist connection to it. Obviously I can only speak for myself, but in this particular case I tend to think it is more productive to let people know about the racism concern and encourage the usage of other phrases rather than effectively say "You used a racist idiom!"

54 Randall Gross  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:36:51am

re: #48 HappyWarrior

Reston? Small world, I grew up near there.

I used to have to travel there to take care of the techs at our call center.

55 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:36:56am

Cantor is a douche, and he has deleted the comment to duck the controversy. Let us move on

How 'bout them Cubs?

57 uncah91  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:37:49am

re: #50 Randall Gross

Well that could be -- but it is a term used by racists who have to circulate & work with non racists - e.g. you will hear it near any army base.

I can believe that.

And hence, the growing popularity Charles has noted from various message boards.

58 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:38:22am

re: #53 Simply Sarah

Sure, in common use, I agree you wouldn't automatically assume it's a racist dog whistle.

Coming from a Republican politician, though...

59 Mattand  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:39:00am

re: #56 Charles Johnson

Examples of right wing racists using this phrase:

#Breitbart.com and Drudge Report: Center Right? Who Are They Kidding?

Breitbart.com Commenters Respond to Obama Speech With Deluge of Overt Racism

I will be shocked if Stewart or Colbert don't take a swing at this tonight, assuming they're not off.

60 b_sharp  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:39:04am

re: #16 Charles Johnson

I promise you, if you use this expression in the presence of African Americans, you'll find out REALLY quickly how "innocent" it is.

The phase itself is not innocent, it is laced with racism, but the use can be innocent if based on ignorance. It's the ignorance that needs to be addressed in most cases. If this politician has a history of bigotry, then his use is suspect, but without a history, jumping to that conclusion is unwarranted.

61 uncah91  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:39:13am

I have to go pick up my child. Thanks for the conversation...

62 Randall Gross  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:42:00am

Looking at the yfrog links it looks like the tweet can still be retweeted/replied to .

63 thecommodore  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:42:48am

For those geeky enough to inquire, the origin of thr phrase "calling a spade a spade" goes back to 1542.

[Link: en.m.wikipedia.org...]

The term "spade" as a racial slur only goes back to 1928.

If not for the air raid sirens blown by Republicans since Obama's election, I woild think this was innocent. But the Breitbart goons and other accross the interwebs have robbed it and other otherwise harmless expressionsnof their innocence.

If a conservative claims there is too mich sensjtivity on racial issues, they do have a po. It's on top of their heads, and tbey'd be able to see it if they'd look themselves in the mirror.

64 dragonfire1981  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:42:55am

Chris Christie calls reporter an Idiot for violating a rule (with video)

New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie, known for his tough talking style, snapped at a reporter Saturday because he asked a question unrelated to the nature of the press conference.

Reporters were told to keep the questions on topic and related to an emergency at a water treatment plant in Monmouth County. But when one reporter strayed from the after-effects of the storm in asking a question, Christie fired back.

"Did I say on topic? Are you stupid? On topic, on topic. Next question," Christie said, clearly angry at the question.

According to ABC News video of the incident, the reporter asked if the governor was "going to be addressing the state legislature" on Monday. Christie is in the midst of a budget battle with state legislators and has called a special session in Trenton. But he did not want to talk about it at the press conference over the weekend.

Christie asked the group of reporters if they had any on topic questions before ending the press conference.

"Thank you all very much, and I'm sorry for the idiot over there. Take care," Christie said before leaving the podium.

65 Simply Sarah  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:43:13am

re: #58 Charles Johnson

Sure, in common use, I agree you wouldn't automatically assume it's a racist dog whistle.

Coming from a Republican politician, though...

Oh, agreed. The identity of the speaker is certainly a key factor. I mostly was taking very minor issue with my interpretation of what you were saying. But if I misinterpreted, then my apologies.

And as an aside, I do feel extremely uncomfortable even loosely defending the use of the phrase in any context.

66 majii  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:43:22am

I'm a Black American, and Cantor's tweet doesn't offend me. I think he meant the ACA should be called what he thinks/says it is--the 'largest tax increase on the middle class in American history,' although it's not. That he deleted the tweet himself says that he knew he used the wrong word (spade) to make his point. This also informs me that he is sensitive about not coming off as being a racist. The only thing I want Cantor and the other republicans in Congress to do in regard to the ACA is to tell the truth, but I'm not holding my breath.

67 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:43:54am

The late Daniel Patrick Moynihan was fond of the phrase "call a horse-thief a horse-thief," which is a good deal more vivid and less ambiguous. Moynihan sometimes preceded this with "Where I come from, we...."
Moynihan, incidentally, was actually born in Oklahoma but spent most of his life in New York. The phrase is still valid, though: Since they have horses, New York must inevitably also have horse thieves.

68 dragonfire1981  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:44:31am

I never knew the phrase "calling a spade a spade" had racial connotations until I saw this thread.

69 HappyWarrior  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:45:09am

re: #64 dragonfire1981

Chris Christie calls reporter an Idiot for violating a rule

There are other Republican governors more off their nut than Chris Christie is but he may be the biggest asshole of them all- pun intended.

70 dragonath  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:46:21am

re: #52 Shiplord Kirel

Cantorus aunswered, that the Republicun wer feloes of no fyne witte in their termes but altogether grosse, clubbyshe, and rusticall, as they whiche had not the witte to calle a penaltee by any other name then a tax.

FTFY

71 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:46:38am

re: #64 dragonfire1981

the last "sorry about that idiot over there" quote really was the icing on the cake...what a maroon.

A

72 majii  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:47:40am

re: #10 uncah91

Oh, yeah, the word 'spade' has a long history of being perceived as a derogatory term in the South. I've lived my entire life in the South while being a Black American (50+ years,) and when the word 'spade' is spoken in reference to a black person, White and Black Americans here recognize that it is not meant as a compliment.

73 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:49:21am

What does Eric cantor have against gardening tools?

74 Mattand  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:49:27am

re: #69 HappyWarrior

There are other Republican governors more off their nut than Chris Christie is but he may be the biggest asshole of them all- pun intended.

Can imagine if Obama did that to the Daily Caller asswipe last week?

And this is the guy Fox News wants to run for President.

We see this everyday in NJ. The sad thing is people love him for it. Well, about 52% do, anyway.

75 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:49:51am

I don't think it's racist either. A common phrase. Nothing more.

76 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:50:50am

I don't see the deletion as a point in favor of innocence, either. This is the "deniability," an essential part of any good racist dog whistle.

Now if this becomes an issue, he can say he "suddenly realized" the possible racist implications and therefore deleted it.

Deniability. But everyone who was intended to hear it, heard it loud and clear.

77 EdDantes  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:51:12am

re: #51 Lidane

Let's call a spade a spade: Eric Cantor is an insufferable douche.

Isn't " insufferable douche" code for Jew?

78 Mattand  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:51:46am

re: #75 Killgore Trout

I don't think it's racist either. A common phrase. Nothing more.

See #66 above.

EDIT: LOL, that wasn't the entry I wanted! I'm going back to work now...

79 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:51:54am

re: #77 EdDantes

Isn't " insufferable douche" code for Jew?

Doucheland Über Alles!!!

80 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:52:42am

re: #78 Mattand

See #66 above.

Good one.

81 b_sharp  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:53:33am

re: #56 Charles Johnson

Examples of right wing racists using this phrase:

#Breitbart.com and Drudge Report: Center Right? Who Are They Kidding?

Breitbart.com Commenters Respond to Obama Speech With Deluge of Overt Racism

I can't see anybody arguing that it can't be used as a racist slur, but I've heard it used as a racist slur and used without being intended as a racist slur when speaking of inanimate objects. When used in the latter instance it indicates an ignorance of the load that phrase carries.

82 Mattand  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:54:06am

re: #80 Killgore Trout

Good one.

Actually, I was shooting for #63. Oh well...

83 HappyWarrior  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:54:17am

re: #74 Mattand

Can imagine if Obama did that to the Daily Caller asswipe last week?

And this is the guy Fox News wants to run for President.

We see this everyday in NJ. The sad thing is people love him for it. Well, about 52% do, anyway.

He just comes across as a bully who loves to throw his shit around and act like your state is his personal fiefdom and anyone that dare criticize the great Christie should be treated with contempt. I heard about him giving a veteran a hard time once at a law school student event.

84 Simply Sarah  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:55:07am

re: #75 Killgore Trout

I don't think it's racist either. A common phrase. Nothing more.

Well, to be perhaps overly blunt, it really doesn't matter if you think it's racist or not, but rather what people it would be a slur against think. And if a sizable number of them feel that it is racist (Or at least has the potential to be), then it is.

85 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:55:39am

re: #81 b_sharp

I can't see anybody arguing that it can't be used as a racist slur, but I've heard it used as a racist slur and used without being intended as a racist slur when speaking of inanimate objects. When used in the latter instance it indicates an ignorance of the load that phrase carries.

And that's exactly where I stop believing that Eric Cantor used the phrase in total innocence. He's a politician, folks. He doesn't just "say stuff" without thinking about it, and no politician in America is unaware that the term "spade" is very often used as a racial slur.

86 b_sharp  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:56:21am

re: #68 dragonfire1981

I never knew the phrase "calling a spade a spade" had racial connotations until I saw this thread.

'Your not from around here, are you?"

87 Mattand  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 11:59:19am

re: #83 HappyWarrior

He just comes across as a bully who loves to throw his shit around and act like your state is his personal fiefdom and anyone that dare criticize the great Christie should be treated with contempt. I heard about him giving a veteran a hard time once at a law school student event.

I'll cut Christie a little slack on that in that the vet was exactly being genteel either. But your main point remains. There's a video of him basically using state troopers to force someone who disagreed with onstage so Christie could humiliate him. This guy was being polite and not yelling; Christie use armed police officers to humiliate him.

The problem is that politics here are so screwed up that someone who comes screaming like that is treated as a hero.

88 jaunte  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 12:00:18pm

Words are an experienced politician's stock in trade. Cantor knows what they mean.

89 b_sharp  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 12:00:22pm

re: #85 Charles Johnson

And that's exactly where I stop believing that Eric Cantor used the phrase in total innocence. He's a politician, folks. He doesn't just "say stuff" without thinking about it, and no politician in America is unaware that the term "spade" is very often used as a racial slur.

I guess I haven't quite hit that level of cynicism about politicians yet, perhaps because of where I live.

90 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 12:01:59pm

The fact that cantor deleted the tweet shows he knew it could be taken racially. And yeah, "spade" was used as a derogatory term for blacks but the phrase predates that connotation. However, the phrase really is a "if it talks like a duck and walks like a duck" type of phrase.

91 Mattand  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 12:02:34pm

re: #89 b_sharp

I guess I haven't quite hit that level of cynicism about politicians yet, perhaps because of where I live.

It's not cynicism, it's the current GOP mindset. This shit goes back to the Willie Horton ad (produced by Roger Ailes, surprise surprise.)

92 HappyWarrior  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 12:04:06pm

re: #87 Mattand

I'll cut Christie a little slack on that in that the vet was exactly being genteel either. But your main point remains. There's a video of him basically using state troopers to force someone who disagreed with onstage so Christie could humiliate him. This guy was being polite and not yelling; Christie use armed police officers to humiliate him.

The problem is that politics here are so screwed up that someone who comes screaming like that is treated as a hero.

Yikes, seriously the guy is why I laugh when I hear Obama and his advisers called "Chicago thugs", Christie just acts like a child who can't sand being told no when someone dare disagree with him. I think he'll flop as a presidential candidate should he ever run though. Can't see his style playing that well but who knows.

93 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 12:07:02pm

re: #91 Mattand

It's not cynicism, it's the current GOP mindset. This shit goes back to the Willie Horton ad (produced by Roger Ailes, surprise surprise.)

Right -- this is a very old trick in the Republican playbook. Reagan operative Lee Atwater spilled the beans years ago:

Atwater: As to the whole Southern strategy that Harry S. Dent, Sr. and others put together in 1968, opposition to the Voting Rights Act would have been a central part of keeping the South. Now [the new Southern Strategy of Ronald Reagan] doesn't have to do that. All you have to do to keep the South is for Reagan to run in place on the issues he's campaigned on since 1964 and that's fiscal conservatism, balancing the budget, cut taxes, you know, the whole cluster.

Questioner: But the fact is, isn't it, that Reagan does get to the Wallace voter and to the racist side of the Wallace voter by doing away with legal services, by cutting down on food stamps?

Atwater: You start out in 1954 by saying, "N_gger, n_gger, n_gger." By 1968 you can't say "n_gger" — that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights and all that stuff. You're getting so abstract now [that] you're talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites. And subconsciously maybe that is part of it. I'm not saying that. But I'm saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. You follow me — because obviously sitting around saying, "We want to cut this," is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than "N_gger, n_gger."

94 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 12:07:10pm

re: #90 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

The fact that cantor deleted the tweet shows he knew it could be taken racially. And yeah, "spade" was used as a derogatory term for blacks but the phrase predates that connotation. However, the phrase really is a "if it talks like a duck and walks like a duck" type of phrase.

Duckist!

95 blueraven  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 12:07:29pm

I think this whole issue is looked at through the prism of what the republican party tolerates and courts; and that is the racist vote.

Even if this was an innocent use of the phrase, many people will find it racial. It is what the Republican party strategy has wrought.

96 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 12:08:28pm

We've actually gone backwards since Atwater revealed the dog whistle strategy. It's pretty common these days to find the N word used openly on right wing websites.

97 Mattand  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 12:10:08pm

re: #92 HappyWarrior

Yikes, seriously the guy is why I laugh when I hear Obama and his advisers called "Chicago thugs", Christie just acts like a child who can't sand being told no when someone dare disagree with him. I think he'll flop as a presidential candidate should he ever run though. Can't see his style playing that well but who knows.

I know public school teachers in NJ who love him. Teachers. The same people who he vilifies by proxy when going after the teachers unions. Don't underestimate the average American voter's ability for cognitive dissonance.

And with Fox News behind him, the way they are now? He'll do better than you think. In fact, Romney getting his ass kicked would be the best thing for Christie. He'll come in screaming about how he'll turn things upside down, like he's supposedly done in Trenton.

98 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 12:13:15pm

What Eric Cantor says: "Let's call a spade a spade: ObamaCare is a massive tax."

What the right wing base hears: "Let's call a spade a spade: Obama."

99 HappyWarrior  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 12:13:37pm

re: #97 Mattand

I know public school teachers in NJ who love him. Teachers. The same people who he vilifies by proxy when going after the teachers unions. Don't underestimate the average American voter's ability for cognitive dissonance.

And with Fox News behind him, the way they are now? He'll do better than you think. In fact, Romney getting his ass kicked would be the best thing for Christie. He'll come in screaming about how he'll turn things upside down, like he's supposedly done in Trenton.

Gotcha. What I mean to say is I think he may struggle in a Republican primary because his style is more what I call "urban/suburban" so I think like Romney he'd do well in population centers but struggle in small towns. Could be wrong though because I really overestimated Rick Perry for example.

100 wrenchwench  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 12:14:06pm

The kindest interpretation would be that Cantor is an out-of-touch elitist. In a sort of Mitt Romney way. It's not a good thing for a politician, so it's still not very kind. If Cantor didn't think of the connotation that phrase could have, he's more likely an idiot. If he did think of it and went ahead with it anyway, he's heartless or pandering or just a fucking racist.

101 jaunte  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 12:14:10pm

re: #98 Charles Johnson

Professional short-attention-span communications.

102 Mattand  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 12:15:41pm

re: #96 Charles Johnson

We've actually gone backwards since Atwater revealed the dog whistle strategy. It's pretty common these days to find the N word used openly on right wing websites.

IIRC, Atwater supposedly repudiated all this stuff on his deathbed.

I'm sorry he died, but this "Goodness gracious, you mean that's a racial slur? I had no idea!" is this fucker's legacy. Using America's divisive racial past for political gain.

Lee Atwater's strategy poked its head out today with Cantor's tweet.

103 thatthatisis  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 12:15:54pm

I don't know if Cantor meant, consciously or subconsciously, to make a racial slur. It's very possible he didn't.

I also don't blame him for taking down the post. After all, if something is racist and hurtful, there's no point leaving it up to do further damage to people's feelings.

But see, here's the thing: To use another good southern expression, if you lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas.

Cantor can't hang around with racists, and keep quiet in the face of his fellow Republicans saying racist things, then expect people to give him the benefit of the doubt when he uses questionable language. He's been lying down with all sorts of big ugly dogs, and now he's got fleas. That's his fault.

104 Mattand  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 12:18:37pm

re: #99 HappyWarrior

Gotcha. What I mean to say is I think he may struggle in a Republican primary because his style is more what I call "urban/suburban" so I think like Romney he'd do well in population centers but struggle in small towns. Could be wrong though because I really overestimated Rick Perry for example.

This is true. Christie appointed a Muslim judge. I can't imagine that's going to play well in Bible Beltistan. And Limbaugh's been all over his shit as a RINO.

Christ, November can't come fast enough.

105 HappyWarrior  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 12:21:53pm

re: #104 Mattand

This is true. Christie appointed a Muslim judge. I can't imagine that's going to play well in Bible Beltistan. And Limbaugh's been all over his shit as a RINO.

Christ, November can't come fast enough.

Right. I would say he'd have a similar campaign experience to Giuliaini but I think would do better because from what I recall he's anti abortion and gay rights unlike Rudy. I don't blame you though. My state also elected a Republican governor in 2009 after r two solid Dems- one is now in the Senate and we're hopefully going to get the other in November, just gotta end George Allen's career once and for all.

106 Mattand  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 12:24:26pm

re: #105 HappyWarrior

Right. I would say he'd have a similar campaign experience to Giuliaini but I think would do better because from what I recall he's anti abortion and gay rights unlike Rudy. I don't blame you though. My state also elected a Republican governor in 2009 after r two solid Dems- one is now in the Senate and we're hopefully going to get the other in November, just gotta end George Allen's career once and for all.

Governor Vaginal Probe, huh? LOL

107 HappyWarrior  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 12:25:39pm

re: #106 Mattand

Governor Vaginal Probe, huh? LOL

Yeah, media keeps on saying McDonnell's a moderate. Bull-shit. HE does a good job portraying one when he needs to though. Remind you of anyone?

108 krypto  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 12:38:10pm

I consider Cantor a disaster. But whenever I've heard the expression "calling a spade a spade," I always regarded it to be referring to a digging tool, not some racial thing, until seeing it taken that way now.

(Maybe there's some ironic justice in all this, seeing what a production the GOP is trying to make about the non-issue of merely attaching the T-word to the mandate penalty.)

109 Lidane  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 12:38:26pm

re: #104 Mattand

Christ, November can't come fast enough.

Seriously. I'm already over this election season and we haven't even gotten to the part of the show where they trot out the fake patriotism for the 4th of July.

I can't wait to see the reactions on the right if Barack Obama wins a second term.

110 Eventual Carrion  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 12:39:12pm

re: #39 Expand Your Ground

Comes from the phrase "black as the ace of spades" and is common usage where I grew up in NW Indiana.

Yep, that is how I usually heard it. Using "spade" just shortened the phrase.

111 RadicalModerate  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 12:41:51pm

re: #96 Charles Johnson

We've actually gone backwards since Atwater revealed the dog whistle strategy. It's pretty common these days to find the N word used openly on right wing websites.

The GOP started the backwards-walking when they employed the Southern Strategy to get the social conservative votes.

The pace picked up during the "Reagan Revolution", and slowed a bit when in the aftermath of the Oklahoma City bombing, and the backlash against the militia-movement types during Clinton's years in the 90s.

It broke into a trot after 9/11, and started picking up steam when immigration suddenly became an issue again.

Then a black man became President, and that backwards-walk has turned into a full sprint toward the bad-old-days of Jim Crow laws. If you don't believe this, just take a look at the Texas GOP platform that calls for the repeal of the 1965 Voting Rights Act.

112 Kragar  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 12:45:06pm

Who was the cool kid who woke up this morning with 2 slashed tires?

This guy. Oh yeah.

113 blueraven  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 12:47:54pm

re: #112 Kragar

Who was the cool kid who woke up this morning with 2 slashed tires?

This guy. Oh yeah.

Sad...Enemies or random vandalism?

114 magnolialover  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 12:48:03pm

You guys have never heard black folks called a "spade" before? Really? Where have you guys been? I'm from Maine, and I heard it a long time before I even hit high school. I'm not saying I don't believe you guys, but, really.

As far as what Cantor did here, I'm pretty sure he knew what it meant when he posted it. Yes, it is a saying, a cliche if you will, but really when speaking about the current POTUS (who, you know, happens to be black), he should think before he puts something like that out.

115 wrenchwench  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 12:49:20pm

re: #114 magnolialover

Welcome, hatchling.

116 gwangung  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 12:51:21pm

Being an old fart, I knew about this.

You young 'uns have an excuse...Cantor doesn't.

117 Kragar  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 12:51:47pm

re: #113 blueraven

Sad...Enemies or random vandalism?

Random. My neighbor said he got hit a few days ago. Filed a police report. My tire guys were cool and wrote it up as roadside damage so my insurance would cover the new tires. Talked to my landlord. Apparently he's been getting reports of a vagrant breaking into laundry rooms for clothes and vandalizing property, so they think it might be him.

One of my neighbors is moving out at the end of the month, I'm probably going to rent his garage space when he leaves. I'd rather pay the $50 a month and be safe than pay god knows how much whenever an asshole decides he wants to screw with my car.

118 Gus  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 12:55:55pm

re: #114 magnolialover

You guys have never heard black folks called a "spade" before? Really? Where have you guys been? I'm from Maine, and I heard it a long time before I even hit high school. I'm not saying I don't believe you guys, but, really.

As far as what Cantor did here, I'm pretty sure he knew what it meant when he posted it. Yes, it is a saying, a cliche if you will, but really when speaking about the current POTUS (who, you know, happens to be black), he should think before he puts something like that out.

I know I've heard it before. Growing up in New Jersey we heard them all. Cantor should have known better -- he's only slightly younger than I am (if we're going to use age as an excuse). If one were to assume it's not racist it's at the very least insensitive when used in the context of black people.

119 Gus  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 12:57:16pm

re: #117 Kragar

Random. My neighbor said he got hit a few days ago. Filed a police report. My tire guys were cool and wrote it up as roadside damage so my insurance would cover the new tires. Talked to my landlord. Apparently he's been getting reports of a vagrant breaking into laundry rooms for clothes and vandalizing property, so they think it might be him.

One of my neighbors is moving out at the end of the month, I'm probably going to rent his garage space when he leaves. I'd rather pay the $50 a month and be safe than pay god knows how much whenever an asshole decides he wants to screw with my car.

I woke up one morning to find a bunch of cars in my apartment complex parking lot had their tires slashed. I was lucky and they avoided my car. Just some random nutcase.

120 wrenchwench  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 12:59:00pm

re: #118 Gus

I know I've heard it before. Growing up in New Jersey we heard them all. Cantor should have known better -- he's only slightly younger than I am (if we're going to use age as an excuse). If one were to assume it's not racist it's at the very least insensitive when used in the context of black people.

And not the context of just any black people. The five letters after the word 'spade' are O-B-A-M-A. But, of course, the race of the President has never been an issue...

121 b_sharp  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 1:01:14pm

re: #108 krypto

I consider Cantor a disaster. But whenever I've heard the expression "calling a spade a spade," I always regarded it to be referring to a digging tool, not some racial thing, until seeing it taken that way now.

(Maybe there's some ironic justice in all this, seeing what a production the GOP is trying to make about the non-issue of merely attaching the T-word to the mandate penalty.)

Where I live, small towns are full of atavistic racists. My younger brother had a friend who named his black cat 'spook'. I made a guess at why he named a black cat that, and unfortunately I was right. I had to walk out of the house.

There is a phrase used around here that occasionally gets used to describe humans - 'black as the ace of spades'.

The word spade is linked to the colour black and it's not the only one, our language is full of words used to increase the racial divide.

122 magnolialover  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 1:02:02pm

re: #118 Gus

I guess that's sort of the point I'm trying to make. He should just know better.

123 Eventual Carrion  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 1:05:01pm

re: #114 magnolialover

You guys have never heard black folks called a "spade" before? Really? Where have you guys been? I'm from Maine, and I heard it a long time before I even hit high school. I'm not saying I don't believe you guys, but, really.

As far as what Cantor did here, I'm pretty sure he knew what it meant when he posted it. Yes, it is a saying, a cliche if you will, but really when speaking about the current POTUS (who, you know, happens to be black), he should think before he puts something like that out.

Mulling over the 'old use' of the term is great and all, but the known, accepted meaning of words and phrases change with the years. That phrase might have been benign 100 years ago, so when spoken it had the original meaning. Today it is steeped in its new meaning, just like the phrase
"Bill and John had a gay party Friday night" 100 years ago would have had a pretty different meaning to the people that heard it then than it would if you said it to someone this afternoon.

124 Gus  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 1:17:24pm

In other news. Things are off to a horrible start with Egypt's new president.

Egypt’s New Leader Takes Oath, Promising to Work for Release of Jailed Terrorist

...

But a promise Mr. Morsi made as part of his speech may provoke Washington: to work for the release of Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman, the Egyptian-born militant Islamist convicted after the 1993 World Trade Center attack of plotting to bomb several New York City landmarks.

...

In an interview with Shadi Hamid of the Brookings Doha Center, Mr. Morsi once said he harbored suspicions that unknown hands might have played a role in the attacks on the World Trade Center on Sept. 11, 2001.

“When you come and tell me that the plane hit the tower like a knife in butter, then you are insulting us,” Mr. Morsi said, according to an article Mr. Hamid wrote in Foreign Policy magazine. “How did the plane cut through the steel like this? Something must have happened from the inside.”

...

He's a truther.

125 palomino  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 1:20:40pm

re: #75 Killgore Trout

I don't think it's racist either. A common phrase. Nothing more.

Then why did he delete it?

Do you have any knowledge of the use of the term "spade" throughout US history?

126 Achilles Tang  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 1:21:47pm

re: #2 erik_t

Is this phrasing objectionable? I'm assuming it is...?

Honest to FSM, if it is I've never heard of it.

I'm willing to learn, but I've used that phrase as recently as yesterday. To me it's the equivalent of saying "let's call an ass an ass".

Has the meaning changed while I aged?

127 Achilles Tang  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 1:24:34pm

re: #114 magnolialover

You guys have never heard black folks called a "spade" before? Really? Where have you guys been? I'm from Maine, and I heard it a long time before I even hit high school. I'm not saying I don't believe you guys, but, really.

I guess it has to do with one's neighborhood. No, I don't recall that meaning at all.

I'm going to guess it comes from the color of spades in a deck of cards, but real racists don't need such subtlety.

128 thecommodore  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 1:45:46pm

re: #96 Charles Johnson

We've actually gone backwards since Atwater revealed the dog whistle strategy. It's pretty common these days to find the N word used openly on right wing websites.

You'll also find people complaining that "political correctness" prevents them from saying that openly on right wing websites.

129 thecommodore  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 1:47:57pm

re: #75 Killgore Trout

I don't think it's racist either. A common phrase. Nothing more.

All Cantor has to do is say the word "spade" to blow the dog whistle. You're right, the expression has no racial connotation in and of itself, but coming from the mouth of a GOP leader, trying to appeal to his base, it means something quite different.

Another example - remember when the late Tony Snow used the term "tar baby?"

130 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 1:47:59pm

re: #126 Achilles Tang

I'm willing to learn, but I've used that phrase as recently as yesterday. To me it's the equivalent of saying "let's call an ass an ass".

Has the meaning changed while I aged?

It's a perfectly innocent term when used among Norwegian-americans in Lake Wobegone.

Context and intent--in this case Cantor will find wiggle room. (Snicker, snicker--He said 'spade'.)

131 Patricia Kayden  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 2:07:43pm

The spade part is interesting (and could be racist), but more importantly the tax part is a straight up lie. It's a penalty. Even Romney's advisor says this.

[Link: blogs.wsj.com...]

132 atalanta  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 2:26:22pm

Use Topsy.com to track down deleted tweets. They have been keeping a history since the beginning of twitter time.
[Link: topsy.com...]

133 Achilles Tang  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 2:27:43pm

re: #130 Decatur Deb

It's a perfectly innocent term when used among Norwegian-americans in Lake Wobegone.

Context and intent--in this case Cantor will find wiggle room. (Snicker, snicker--He said 'spade'.)

How did you find out I live in Lake Wobegone?

134 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 2:33:50pm

re: #133 Achilles Tang

How did you find out I live in Lake Wobegone?

You're above average.

135 Achilles Tang  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 2:39:42pm

re: #134 Decatur Deb

You're above average.

It's children. My children are above average. The adults are all Lutherans, which is definitely not above average.

136 labman57  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 4:21:25pm

The degree of hyperbole in the conservative message is directly proportional to the degree of desperation felt among the Republican leadership with respect to their prospects in the Fall elections.

137 Genshed  Mon, Jul 2, 2012 9:56:01pm

Learned Mother, here's a Youtube link:

Btw, that reminded me: I played the video of the song "Hair" for my fifteen year old son, who has dreadlocks down to his shoulders. He almost had an asthma attack, he was laughing so hard.

Don't know WHAT would happen if I played "Colored Spade".

138 szilard  Tue, Jul 3, 2012 7:39:51am

Imagine he wrote this:
"Ten skafen skafen legontas": Obamacare is a massive Tax. On July 11th, House will vote to repeal it.
Would that have been OK?

139 Genshed  Tue, Jul 3, 2012 12:46:37pm

Szilard, is that Sindarin? I only know Quenya.

140 [deleted]  Fri, Jul 6, 2012 2:18:48pm

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