Romney Invested Millions in Chinese Firm That Explicitly Profited From Outsourcing US Jobs

The outsourcing charges against Romney are true
Politics • Views: 35,421

David Corn has another very interesting scoop today at Mother Jones: EXCLUSIVE: Romney Invested Millions in Chinese Firm That Profited on US Outsourcing.

According to government documents reviewed by Mother Jones, Romney, when he was in charge of Bain, invested heavily in a Chinese manufacturing company that depended on US outsourcing for its profits—and that explicitly stated that such outsourcing was crucial to its success.

This previously unreported deal runs counter to Romney’s tough talk on the campaign trail regarding China. “We will not let China continue to steal jobs from the United States of America,” Romney declared in February. But with this investment, Romney sought to make money off a foreign company that banked on American firms outsourcing manufacturing overseas.

On April 17, 1998, Brookside Capital Partners Fund, a Bain Capital affiliate, filed a report with the Securities and Exchange Commission noting that it had acquired 6.13 percent of Hong Kong-based Global-Tech Appliances, which manufactured household appliances in a production facility in the industrial city of Dongguan, China. That August, according to another SEC filing, Brookside upped its interest in Global-Tech to 10.3 percent. Both SEC filings identified Romney as the person in control of this investment: “Mr. W. Mitt Romney is the sole shareholder, sole director, President and Chief Executive Officer of Brookside Inc. and thus is the controlling person of Brookside Inc.” Each of these documents was signed by Domenic Ferrante, a managing director of Brookside and Bain.

There’s no longer any doubt that Romney and Bain Capital profited hugely by investing in firms that specialized in sending American jobs overseas. Corn sums up:

Romney’s Global-Tech deal adds a new dimension to the debate over Romney and outsourcing. Whether or not he was at the helm when Bain invested in US firms that did or did not ship jobs overseas, Romney was in command when a company he owned and controlled bought a large stake in a Chinese venture that counted on American companies sending manufacturing—and that means jobs—to China. These days, Romney rails against China for swiping American jobs and proclaims, “For me, it’s all about good jobs for the American people.” But when there was money to be made by acquiring a chunk of a Chinese company that aimed to displace American manufacturers (and American workers), Romney’s patriotism did not interfere with the potential for profit.

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118 comments
1 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 11:33:20am

Let us ask not what we can do for our country but rather what we can do our county for….

2 dragonfire1981  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 11:33:33am

One of the greatest myths of our time is that “China steals jobs from Americans”. China doesn’t have to steal anything, those jobs are handed to them on a silver platter by top corporate executives who only care about profits.

They don’t care WHERE the jobs are, they just want the work done as CHEAPLY as possible (both in terms of production and labor costs). A lot of the time that ISN’T America.

This isn’t some secretive underground thing that’s going on. This is mainstream corporate America.

3 Iwouldprefernotto  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 11:34:32am

Romney for President. Of China

4 jc717  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 11:34:56am

Wow, this is turning into such a train wreck.
Of course the lesson that the GOP base will take from the Nov. drubbing is that Romney wasn’t conservative enough. Jim DeMint 2016!

5 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 11:34:57am

This is not a good day for Mitt Romney.

6 jamesfirecat  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 11:36:00am

If Cooperations are people, Mitt Romney is a Serial Killer….

DUN, DUN-DUNNNNN!

7 jamesfirecat  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 11:36:32am

re: #5 Charles Johnson

This is not a good day for Mitt Romney.

But Excellent News for John McCain!

8 Mattand  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 11:37:33am

re: #5 Charles Johnson

This is not a good day for Mitt Romney.

The Washington Post political fact blog guy probably has a huge migrane as well.

9 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 11:38:46am

re: #5 Charles Johnson

This is not a good day for Mitt Romney.

It’s about to get worse:

‘Prove It’: Obama Campaign Presses Romney For Bain Departure Details

The Obama campaign is challenging Mitt Romney to release more information about his taxes and time at Bain Capital in order to put to bed questions raised by SEC filings regarding his role at the company.

“If the SEC filings aren’t accurate, then prove it,” Obama deputy campaign manager Stephanie Cutter told reporters on Thursday. “If he wasn’t investing millions of dollars in shell corporations, tax havens, Swiss bank accounts overseas to gain a tax advantage, then prove it. Prove it by releasing your tax returns.”

Romney said he left any managerial role at Bain Capital behind in February 1999, delegating all voting shares of stock to 26 managing directors and leaving day-to-day operations to focus on running the Olympics. But subsequent SEC filings list him as “sole stockholder, chairman of the board, chief executive officer, and president.” A 2001 SEC filing first reported by TPM lists his “principal occupation” as “Managing Director of Bain Capital, Inc.” and the Boston Globe reviewed additional filings containing similar claims.

10 Mattand  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 11:38:53am

re: #4 jc717

Wow, this is turning into such a train wreck.
Of course the lesson that the GOP base will take from the Nov. drubbing is that Romney wasn’t conservative enough. Jim DeMint 2016!

“Let’s see; I just lost my hand to this stump grinder. Better put my whole arm in just to be sure it’s a bad idea.”

11 Romantic Heretic  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 11:39:31am

re: #2 dragonfire1981

If you do not want people to buy America, do not sell it. - Akio Morita

12 dragonath  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 11:41:57am

re: #8 Mattand

Speaking of which, here’s an article from the same paper debunking the factchecker’s claim.

Romney’s Bain Capital invested in companies that moved jobs overseas

Mitt Romney: Investor! Obama is LIAR!!1!

13 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 11:42:24am

But let us not too wrapped up in the issue of outsourcing, it can easily turn into a red herrling, just like the issue of Romney’s active/inactive role at BC.

The question is, what sort of economy do we want? Do we want one where reckless risk-taking, negligence and fraud are rewarded with government bailouts?

Do we want an economy where labor is just another cost factor to be minimized or eliminated entirely, and health insurance is just another cost factor in labor to be eliminated?

Do we want an economy in which individuals and families with limited assets are expected to negotiate on an “equal” basis with multi-billion-dollar , multi-national corporations for terms of employment or for health insurance?

14 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 11:44:32am

This makes his tough talk on China sound even more shallow than it was before.

15 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 11:44:47am

re: #12 Be Zorch, Daddio

Speaking of which, here’s an article from the same paper debunking the factchecker’s claim.

Romney’s Bain Capital invested in companies that moved jobs overseas

Mitt Romney: Investor! Obama is LIAR!!1!

There’s nuance there that I missed at first too. The claims from the Obama campaign deal with a different date range than the Wapo article. The WaPo article and the fact checker are in agreement but the Obama campaign stretched the truth too much in its ad.

16 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 11:46:39am

re: #13 Expand Your Ground

But let us not too wrapped up in the issue of outsourcing, it can easily turn into a red herrling, just like the issue of Romney’s active/inactive role in BC.

The question is, what sort of economy do we want? Do we want one where reckless risk-taking, negligence and fraud are rewarded with government bailouts?

Do we want an economy where labor is just another cost factor to be minimized or eliminated entirely, and health insurance is just another cost factor in labor to be eliminated?

Do we want an economy in which individuals and families with limited assets are expected to negotiate on an “equal” basis with multi-billion-dollar , multi-national corporations for terms of employment or for health insurance?

I think this is the argument that the Obama Campaign has been slowly, but surely building right under the MSM and the Romney Campaign’s noses. They are just now getting an idea of what’s going on and that in the swing states it’s working. One of the Obama campaign ads ends with the phrase “Mitt Romney is not the solution. He’s the problem”. They are building the case the men like Romney and their business practices are everything that has been wrong with the economy for the last 10 years. They are responsible for the crash of 2008 and the aftermath that we are still living in. It’s brilliant and it’s working.

17 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 11:47:36am

re: #16 moderatelyradicalliberal

I think this is the argument that the Obama Campaign has been slowly, but surely building right under the MSM and the Romney Campaign’s noses. They are just now getting an idea of what’s going on and that in the swing states it’s working. One of the Obama campaign ads ends with the phrase “Mitt Romney is not the solution. He’s the problem”. They are building the case the men like Romney and their business practices are everything that has been wrong with the economy for the last 10 years. They are responsible for the crash of 2008 and the aftermath that we are still living in. It’s brilliant and it’s working.

And the GOP/Romney response seems to amount to “Nuh-uh! Democrats did that!”

18 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 11:48:29am

Future news:

Home-grown Al Qaeda militants armed with brickbats and molotov cocktails continue to hold the entire US Congress hostage in the rotunda of the Capitol building. As the stand-off enters its third day, some of the captive representatives have questioned the wisdom of President Romney’s decision to fire the Capitol police and replace them with out-sourced private contractors. The critics were immediately shouted down by Congressman Ron Paul, who was allowed to briefly rise and address his cowering colleagues.

19 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 11:48:47am

re: #16 moderatelyradicalliberal

I think this is the argument that the Obama Campaign has been slowly, but surely building right under the MSM and the Romney Campaign’s noses. They are just now getting an idea of what’s going on and that in the swing states it’s working. One of the Obama campaign ads ends with the phrase “Mitt Romney is not the solution. He’s the problem”. They are building the case the men like Romney and their business practices are everything that has been wrong with the economy for the last 10 years. They are responsible for the crash of 2008 and the aftermath that we are still living in. It’s brilliant and it’s working.

It does seem to be working. I think a lot of people underestimate how savvy Obama is as a campaigner. I think he’s lost only once as a candidate and that was as a primary challenger for Congress.

20 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 11:49:12am

I sat and patiently waited for the GOP in 2008 to present the case that they had the better candidate. They failed. They are failing this time, actually they had pretty much failed before they even settled on their candidate…

21 dragonfire1981  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 11:51:13am

re: #3 Iwouldprefernotto

Romney for President. Of China

羅姆尼 2012!

22 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 11:54:50am

re: #19 HappyWarrior

It does seem to be working. I think a lot of people underestimate how savvy Obama is as a campaigner. I think he’s lost only once as a candidate and that was as a primary challenger for Congress.

Romney and the GOP didn’t think they would have to really fight because of the economy. They didn’t expect the President to go as hard as he’s gone and they certainly never expected to be put on the defense. They thought a cowardly MSM and SuperPAC ads saying how awful Obama has been would be enough. It may have been if the President Obama had any intention of laying down. But Obama doesn’t really do laying down and taking it. Throw in that he is actually one cold-blooded and calculating MFer himself (see dead pirates, dead terrorists and dead dictators) and Romney just wasn’t prepared for any of this.

23 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 11:55:29am

re: #9 Targetpractice

It’s about to get worse:

‘Prove It’: Obama Campaign Presses Romney For Bain Departure Details

Show us your papers, Willard!

24 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 11:57:50am

re: #22 moderatelyradicalliberal

Willard went into this thinking he could win the presidency much like he won the nomination: carpet-bomb states with ads of dubious trustworthiness, give a few stock stump speeches, and then get through the debates by making the fewest “mistakes” possible.

25 jaunte  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 11:58:52am

It’s going to take a ton of dark money to drag this campaign over the finish line.

26 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 11:59:38am

The debates are going to be interesting. They nearly proved to be Mitt’s undoing in the primaries. I suspect Obama will make Mitt look foolish on national television. Teddy Kennedy had the best line of Romney I’ve ever heard said- my opponent is not pro choice, he’s multiple choice.

27 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 12:01:08pm

re: #24 Targetpractice

Willard went into this thinking he could win the presidency much like he won the nomination: carpet-bomb states with ads of dubious trustworthiness, give a few stock stump speeches, and then get through the debates by making the fewest “mistakes” possible.

That strategy was successful because his opponents were all either loathsome, crazy or stupid. They had no money and no grassroots ground game. President Obama is neither of those things and while be will be outspent he will have just enough money to get his message out and his superior ground game running.

28 leftynyc  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 12:01:12pm

re: #24 Targetpractice

Willard went into this thinking he could win the presidency much like he won the nomination: carpet-bomb states with ads of dubious trustworthiness, give a few stock stump speeches, and then get through the debates by making the fewest “mistakes” possible.

Was going to say the exact same thing. He thought buying the Presidency would be the same as buying the nomination. There is nothing he hasn’t been able to buy….yet.

29 allegro  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 12:06:27pm

re: #28 leftynyc

Was going to say the exact same thing. He thought buying the Presidency would be the same as buying the nomination. There is nothing he hasn’t been able to buy…yet.

“Buy and Lie” has worked for him his whole life. I think it’s all he knows.

30 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 12:10:33pm

LOLGOP @LOLGOP

Mitt Romney. Because America needs a president who wasn’t ready for an attack he saw coming for decades.

31 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 12:14:26pm

CNN debunking of the previous Mother Jones/Boston herald article…
When did Romney really leave Bain?

Today, however, left-leaning journalist David Corn tries to blur that line, in a new piece for Mother Jones. And, by doing so, Corn allows himself to saddle Romney with Bain Capital’s August 1999 investment in Stericycle, a medical waste management company whose services included the disposal of aborted fetuses. From a political perspective, you can see where this is going (particularly since Romney was still pro-choice at the time).

On first read, Corn’s argument seems compelling. But, upon reflection, it’s little more than conjecture that uses old regulatory filings as authoritative-sounding smokescreens.
…unwinding a private equity firm’s ownership structure is extremely complicated. The “firm” itself is largely a legal construct of convenience, since it doesn’t pay salaries, make investments or do much of anything else. Instead, what matters are the individual funds.

In the case of Bain Capital’s funds, it’s reasonable to assume that Romney was considered a “key man,” meaning that each fund’s limited partners could have voted to end the fund’s investment period — or take over fund management themselves — if a super-majority felt it prudent. But that didn’t happen, and Bain saw no reason to expend massive administrative effort to amend existing funds. Instead, it asked Romney to sign documents when necessary, and made the managerial/ownership changes on new funds going forward.

The part about lying to the SEC is absurd, since the SEC doesn’t require an owner to be the operational decision-maker (Romney delegated such responsibilities, as is his right).

32 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 12:16:33pm

re: #31 Killgore Trout

CNN debunking of the previous Mother Jones/Boston herald article…
When did Romney really leave Bain?

If Romney delegated away his decision-making powers, he needs to prove it. It’s within his power to do so.

33 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 12:17:26pm

re: #31 Killgore Trout

No, that’s not a “debunking.” He presents no evidence debunking anything - it’s an opinion piece. He doesn’t refute Corn’s facts about the SEC filings. He’s arguing against Corn’s conclusion, because he interprets the facts differently.

34 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 12:18:34pm

re: #32 Targetpractice

If Romney delegated away his decision-making powers, he needs to prove it. It’s within his power to do so.

I think at this point we’ve arrived into Birth Certificate territory. I don’t think any amount of evidence is going to sway anyone who is already convinced.

35 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 12:18:57pm

re: #34 Killgore Trout

I think at this point we’ve arrived into Birth Certificate territory. I don’t think any amount of evidence is going to sway anyone who is already convinced.

What a ridiculous comparison.

36 dragonfire1981  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 12:19:54pm

re: #28 leftynyc

Was going to say the exact same thing. He thought buying the Presidency would be the same as buying the nomination. There is nothing he hasn’t been able to buy…yet.

Unofficial Mitt Romney Theme Song:

37 allegro  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 12:20:36pm

re: #34 Killgore Trout

I think at this point we’ve arrived into Birth Certificate territory. I don’t think any amount of evidence is going to sway anyone who is already convinced.

That would appear at this point to be you.

38 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 12:20:38pm

re: #34 Killgore Trout

I think at this point we’ve arrived into Birth Certificate territory. I don’t think any amount of evidence is going to sway anyone who is already convinced.

To be comparable, Romney would first have to make an effort to clear the air. Obama had no problem showing a certified copy of his birth certificate. The best Romney can offer up is 2.5 years of tax returns, with the convenient excuse that the other .5 of those won’t be wrapped up until after the election.

39 JAFO  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 12:21:08pm

I sure wish I could draw a salary of $100,000 a year for doing no work as a CEO of a company I had no connection to.

40 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 12:22:05pm

re: #39 Big Joe

I sure wish I could draw a salary of $100,000 a year for doing no work as a CEO of a company I had no connection to.

A friend just jokingly noted that $100,000 proves he wasn’t in charge, because he’d have demanded a lot more if he was.

41 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 12:22:54pm

re: #34 Killgore Trout

I think at this point we’ve arrived into Birth Certificate territory. I don’t think any amount of evidence is going to sway anyone who is already convinced.

Red herring terrritory again.

The bigger question is simply: who is better qualified to run the economy in a way that will benefit the most people? None of this discussion, regardless of the details, is putting Romney in a good light vis-a-vis that question.

42 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 12:23:10pm

re: #39 Big Joe

I sure wish I could draw a salary of $100,000 a year for doing no work as a CEO of a company I had no connection to.

Must be nice huh but this is the same guy who tries to relate to Americans who have lost their jobs by saying he too is unemployed while he neglects to mention he makes a good amount making the speech circuit and the fact that he chose to quit his job as Massachusetts’ governor to run for president.

43 gwangung  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 12:23:43pm

re: #34 Killgore Trout

I think at this point we’ve arrived into Birth Certificate territory. I don’t think any amount of evidence is going to sway anyone who is already convinced.

Dude, this is weak sauce indeed.

Again, anyone who think Romney didn’t have any active managerial power or responsibility pre-1999 doesn’t know business.

44 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 12:23:48pm

re: #34 Killgore Trout

I think at this point we’ve arrived into Birth Certificate territory. I don’t think any amount of evidence is going to sway anyone who is already convinced.

Except, of course, in the manner in which how one has managed one’s corporation actually has bearing on one’s integrity, whereas where one was born has zero component of choice.

Except Romney has provided multiple “versions” of what his role at Bain Capital was, and has made his work there a talking point in favor of his campaign. Obama hasn’t made any flubs about where he claims to be from, nor boasted about his birth as an accomplishment that makes him a worthy president.

45 gwangung  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 12:24:32pm

re: #40 Targetpractice

A friend just jokingly noted that $100,000 proves he wasn’t in charge, because he’d have demanded a lot more if he was.

Heh. Actually, that’s a fair point.

46 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 12:24:40pm

re: #41 Expand Your Ground

Red herring terrritory again.

The bigger question is simply: who is better qualified to run the economy in a way that will benefit the most people? None of this discussion, regardless of the details, is putting Romney in a good light vis-a-vis that question.

That’s what this whole debate comes down to for me and the answer to me is definitely not Romney.

47 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 12:26:29pm

Once again, what kind of economy do we want? Do we want on in which hard work is rewarded and sound investments pay off in financial security for retirement and one children’s education, or do we want one in which people can earn 100K a year for “not doing anything” and pay a 14% tax rate on “investment income” while the rest of us pay 30% because we make the mistake of drawing an “honest salary”?

48 dragonfire1981  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 12:27:31pm

re: #47 Expand Your Ground

Once again, what kind of economy do we want? Do we want on in which hard work is rewarded and sound investments pay off in financial security for retirement and one children’s education, or do we want one in which people can earn 100K a year for “not doing anything” and pay a 14% tax rate on “investment income” while the rest of us pay 30% because we make the mistake of drawing an “honest salary”?

Some would, wrongly I might add, frame this decision as: Capitalism vs. Socialism

49 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 12:27:33pm

re: #41 Expand Your Ground

The bigger question is simply: who is better qualified to run the economy in a way that will benefit the most people?

I agree, I’m an Obama man. That doesn’t mean I have to believe everything that some lefty partisan claims about Mitt.
This stuff about Bain and SEC filings is over my head but so far the nonpartisan fact checkers don’t think these stories are true. I’ll side with them over partisan sources Mother Jones and TPM.

50 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 12:29:03pm

re: #49 Killgore Trout

I agree, I’m an Obama man. That doesn’t mean I have to believe everything that some lefty partisan claims about Mitt.
This stuff about Bain and SEC filings is over my head but so far the nonpartisan fact checkers don’t think these stories are true. I’ll side with them over partisan sources Mother Jones and TPM.

They don’t think they’re true on the grounds that they’re giving Romney the benefit of the doubt, because they can’t prove him a liar without his or Bain’s consent.

51 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 12:29:18pm

re: #47 Expand Your Ground

Once again, what kind of economy do we want? Do we want on in which hard work is rewarded and sound investments pay off in financial security for retirement and one children’s education, or do we want one in which people can earn 100K a year for “not doing anything” and pay a 14% tax rate on “investment income” while the rest of us pay 30% because we make the mistake of drawing an “honest salary”?

This really is a good question. To me, it’s madness that a guy can do that. I don’t think that is at all what Smith had in mind when he wrote the Wealth of Nations. It’s unreal that he could make 100 K “doing nothing” which is well above the median salary in this country.

52 Varek Raith  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 12:29:20pm

re: #34 Killgore Trout

I think at this point we’ve arrived into Birth Certificate territory. I don’t think any amount of evidence is going to sway anyone who is already convinced.

U mad bro?

53 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 12:29:21pm

re: #48 dragonfire1981

Some would, wrongly I might add, frame this decision as: Capitalism freedom vs. Socialism slavery

54 gwangung  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 12:30:13pm

re: #49 Killgore Trout

I agree, I’m an Obama man. That doesn’t mean I have to believe everything that some lefty partisan claims about Mitt.
This stuff about Bain and SEC filings is over my head but so far the nonpartisan fact checkers don’t think these stories are true. I’ll side with them over partisan sources Mother Jones and TPM.

No, that is not accurate.

They are saying there is a possibility the charges could not be correct. That’s not the same thing.

However, I’ll have to say that if Romney did NOT have any responsibility or managerial control, it was extremely sloppy paperwork on his part, at best, because the Bain SEC documents mentioned he was Managing Director, President and CEO without detailing any paperwork about delegation of authority.

55 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 12:32:44pm

re: #52 Varek Raith

U mad bro?

Not at all.

56 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 12:33:52pm

re: #49 Killgore Trout

This stuff about Bain and SEC filings is over my head but so far the nonpartisan fact checkers don’t think these stories are true.

That’s not correct. No one is arguing about the facts. The SEC documents exist. Mitt Romney is listed as CEO and Managing Director as late as 2001. These are facts.

I’ll side with them over partisan sources Mother Jones and TPM.

At least you’re admitting to a huge honking case of confirmation bias. But it’s kind of insulting to compare this controversy to Birtherism, because some people don’t agree with your predetermined conclusions. Really.

57 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 12:34:35pm

re: #55 Killgore Trout

Point is that the “evidence” is at best circumstantial. If you like Romney, you will ignore it. If you dislike him ar lean away from him, it confirms everything else he has failed to stand for to date.

58 blueraven  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 12:35:43pm

re: #33 Charles Johnson

No, that’s not a “debunking.” He presents no evidence debunking anything - it’s an opinion piece. He doesn’t refute Corn’s facts about the SEC filings. He’s arguing against Corn’s conclusion, because he interprets the facts differently.

It is also an article from July 2nd…10 days ago
A lot of new info has surfaced.

59 allegro  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 12:36:33pm

If the 100% shareholder of a company who is also its CEO, President, and Managing Director isn’t responsible for anything the company does, there is something very wrong with our definitions. It defies all logic and demands one helluva suspension of disbelief to buy into the claims that Romney is just some bystander collecting millions of dollars in profits without any say or responsibility whatsoever.

Please.

60 Kragar  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 12:37:35pm

And the Nebraska primary is this Saturday, where a push by Ron Paul can actually get his nomination into the convention because he’ll have enough delegates.


I question the timing…
/

61 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 12:38:05pm

re: #59 allegro

If the 100% shareholder of a company who is also its CEO, President, and Managing Director isn’t responsible for anything the company does, there is something very wrong with our definitions. It defies all logic and demands one helluva suspension of disbelief to buy into the claims that Romney is just some bystander collecting millions of dollars in profits without any say or responsibility whatsoever.

Please.

Yes.

62 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 12:38:07pm

re: #56 Charles Johnson

At least you’re admitting to a huge honking case of confirmation bias.

Yes, I prefer non partisan and reliable sources of information, especially on complicated topics that I don’t understand like legal documents, SEC filings and the corporate structure of private investment firms. I’ll differ to reliable sources over partisans. If the main fact checkers find these new claims have some validity then I’ll acknowledge it.

63 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 12:38:44pm

re: #59 allegro

If the 100% shareholder of a company who is also its CEO, President, and Managing Director isn’t responsible for anything the company does, there is something very wrong with our definitions. It defies all logic and demands one helluva suspension of disbelief to buy into the claims that Romney is just some bystander collecting millions of dollars in profits without any say or responsibility whatsoever.

Please.

The fact-checkers are relying on Romney and Bain’s claim that, though he was carrying all the business titles, that was just a formality because they were in the process of delegating the powers to others who took over after 1999. Thing in, we have no names, no documents, not even so much as a photograph of the people who supposedly were taking over in Romney’s absence. We’re just supposed to take it on faith that Romney had really given up his power over Bain while he was working on the Olympics.

64 blueraven  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 12:39:33pm

re: #31 Killgore Trout

CNN debunking of the previous Mother Jones/Boston herald article…
When did Romney really leave Bain?

Check your article date KT
Not very relevant to the recent articles by Boston Globe and Corn

65 gwangung  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 12:40:12pm

re: #57 Expand Your Ground

Point is that the “evidence” is at best circumstantial. If you like Romney, you will ignore it. If you dislike him ar lean away from him, it confirms everything else he has failed to stand for to date.

Well, even in their best light, this suggests Romney is such a careless administrator that he put his name on his company that was doing something that he had no idea about.

That would not inspire confidence in anyone.

66 Kragar  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 12:40:14pm

GOP Congress: DOD telling Bible publisher not to use Armed Services Logo is an attack on religious freedom

Rep. Alan Nunnelee (R-MS) has sent a letter to the Defense Department on behalf of himself and several other members of Congress demanding to know “how the decision to revoke this trademark permission was made and what the Department of Defense is doing to ensure that the religious freedom of the members of our military is preserved and protected.”

This morning, Nunnelee was on “Today’s Issues” with Tony Perkins where we asserted that “this is just another example of government assault on religion” while voicing his outrage over the whole thing because “to say that you can’t link your service in the United States Military and the comfort that you find in the Word of God is just absurd.”

And it is absurd … but that is not what anyone is saying, of course; the Defense Department is not telling members of the Armed Forces that they can’t take comfort in the Bible, but merely that B&H Publishing no longer has permission to publish editions of the Bible that bear official military emblems. In fact, a B&H spokesman told Fox News that the company had merely “replaced the official seals with generic insignias [and the Bible] continue to sell well and provide spiritual guidance and comfort to those who serve.”

67 Varek Raith  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 12:40:17pm

re: #64 blueraven

Check your article date KT
Not very relevant to the recent articles by Boston Globe and Corn

Unless it came from the future.
/

69 Varek Raith  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 12:41:03pm
70 Kragar  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 12:41:33pm

re: #69 Varek Raith

Or a case of copyright infringement.
Problem solved.
/

COPYRIGHT LAWS ARE THE DEVIL!

71 allegro  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 12:42:40pm

re: #63 Targetpractice

The fact-checkers are relying on Romney and Bain’s claim that, though he was carrying all the business titles, that was just a formality because they were in the process of delegating the powers to others who took over after 1999. Thing in, we have no names, no documents, not even so much as a photograph of the people who supposedly were taking over in Romney’s absence. We’re just supposed to take it on faith that Romney had really given up his power over Bain while he was working on the Olympics.

I submit that we don’t really need names, pictures, or anything else. So what if he delegated powers? That’s what bosses DO. They delegate duties and responsibilities to others to carry out their desired ends. It is still their responsibility. That’s why they earn the big bucks they claim to so well deserve.

72 wrenchwench  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 12:42:52pm

re: #64 blueraven

Check your article date KT
Not very relevant to the recent articles by Boston Globe and Corn

Yeah. That was the pre-bunking.

73 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 12:42:56pm

re: #66 Kragar

I done saved this quote because it needs to be brought up with such regularity:

“Religious freedom is guaranteed to the individual: not a collection of individuals or an organization. A church does not have religious freedom: the individual congregants do. A collection of religious persons do not have religious freedom: the individuals in that collection do. You cannot amass your individual freedoms to trump the freedoms of others.”

74 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 12:43:23pm
75 wrenchwench  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 12:44:18pm

re: #73 Expand Your Ground

I done saved this quote because it needs to be brought up with such regularity:

“Religious freedom is guaranteed to the individual: not a collection of individuals or an organization. A church does not have religious freedom: the individual congregants do. A collection of religious persons do not have religious freedom: the individuals in that collection do. You cannot amass your individual freedoms to trump the freedoms of others.”

Source?

76 JAFO  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 12:45:31pm

Mitt Romney should, at least, return any salary, compensation, and earnings to Bain investors for the 3 years he says he didn’t do anything for the company.

77 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 12:45:58pm

re: #75 wrenchwench

Source?

Some athiest dude.

78 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 12:46:19pm

re: #65 gwangung

Well, even in their best light, this suggests Romney is such a careless administrator that he put his name on his company that was doing something that he had no idea about.

That would not inspire confidence in anyone.

Really, it’s lose-lose anyway to me. Either he was involved and had no problem profiting from jobs going overseas or he had no problem with the company doing that in his name while he was still technically CEO. That’s not something I like hearing about a man who could be my next president.

79 dragonath  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 12:46:54pm

Hey, it’s a great thing that Romney’s team is so, uh, transparent…

Romney’s Gubernatorial Aides Bought Their Gov’t Hard Drives, Raising Eyebrows

80 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 12:47:39pm

re: #78 HappyWarrior

Really, it’s lose-lose anyway to me. Either he was involved and had no problem profiting from jobs going overseas or he had no problem with the company doing that in his name while he was still technically CEO. That’s not something I like hearing about a man who could be my next president.

I remember that when it came to Bush the First’s involvement in Iran-Contra, the two possible outcomes were either he slept through the briefings or he was lying…

81 wrenchwench  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 12:48:08pm

re: #77 Expand Your Ground

Some athiest dude.

Cool. I was hoping for a Supreme Court Justice or a founding father, but it’s a good quote none the less.

82 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 12:48:42pm

re: #64 blueraven

Check your article date KT
Not very relevant to the recent articles by Boston Globe and Corn

Ah, I see that’s from July 2 but it still covers the same SEC documents. Despite the claims these appear to be the same SEC documents the fact checkers have already adressed. Even the WaPo fact checker noted that the documents have already been discussed, the only thing new in the Boston globe article was the quote from some chick from the Carter administration.

83 Kragar  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 12:49:16pm

re: #77 Expand Your Ground

Some athiest dude.

Conservapedia has a listing for the guy, which contains perfectly relevant information

Blair Scott

Members of the American Atheists board of directors who are overweight as of December 28, 2010 include: Richard Andrews, Monty Gaither, Blair Scott and Ann Zindler.

84 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 12:49:20pm

re: #78 HappyWarrior

Really, it’s lose-lose anyway to me. Either he was involved and had no problem profiting from jobs going overseas or he had no problem with the company doing that in his name while he was still technically CEO. That’s not something I like hearing about a man who could be my next president.

What it boils down to is that one can legitimately say that Romney was CEO when Bain was doing XYZ between ‘99 and ‘01.

85 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 12:49:28pm

O.T. Gahh…another twenty minutes of my life completely wasted with my upstairs neighbors. I have bitched here before about their older (2004) computer still being on AOL dial-up and the newer laptop working off of my wireless network because I gave their nephew the passphrase to my network over two years ago while he was here.

A few days ago the wireless failed and I was asked to “come up and fix their computer” for the hundredth freaking time. I explained that I probably just needed to reboot my wireless modem (correctly) and apparently Fran finally realized that she is in fact connected to my internet, (I guess she thought this magic wireless stuff was free?).

Anyway rather than continue to rely on me to provide her internet she decided that she needed to instead hook both computers up to the AOL dial-up and asked me what kind of modem she would need…. (yes really). :(

I tried to explain that she could not hook two computers up simultaneously to dial-up unless she used one as a network hub and that there is no longer any such thing as a multiport dial-up modem available on the market, (maybe in an antique store?). I then once again tried to explain that since they already have phone service thru Verizon that they could get DSL for slightly less than they are paying AOL for dial-up and that it would be 10 times as fast and also come with a two or four port modem they could plug both computers into.

Same old shit followed…(You need to picture Fran talking in an increasingly faster and slightly ever more hysterical sounding voice).

“But then we would have to notify everyone of our new web address!”

“No you don’t, AOL mail is free, you can keep your current email addresses”

“But it costs more and we can’t afford it!!”

“No it doesn’t, it actually costs about a buck less per month if you get their “lite” plan which would still be ten times as fast as what you have now”

“But I wont be able to figure out how to use it!!!”

“It is always on, you don’t have to do anything, it is already connected any time the computer is on, and I can make AOL your homepage if you want, you will not notice any difference at all except for not having to connect to the dial-up before browsing”

“But if it quits working I wont know how to fix it!!!11!”

“If it quits working you just need to unplug the modem for half a minute and then plug it back in, that fixes it 95% of the time”

“Well there has to be some way that we can keep AOL and hook both these computers up that is simpler!!!11!!”

“No there isn’t, besides which it would be a waste of money even if there was, and I want no part of even helping you to attempt it.”

“Well fine then, I will call AOL and see if they have someone local we can pay to do it for us since you wont!!!11!!!”

Very Deep Sigh… she absolutely will not give up AOL because it is what she had when she first went online. Reminds me of when I stuck with Netscape long after I should have deleted it simply because it was the first realistically usable alternative to Internet Exploder Explorer.

Any suggestions as to how I can better explain the current state of the internet connection options available to her?

86 Bulworth  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 12:52:43pm

re: #82 Killgore Trout

Ah, I see that’s from July 2 but it still covers the same SEC documents. Despite the claims these appear to be the same SEC documents the fact checkers have already adressed. Even the WaPo fact checker noted that the documents have already been discussed, the only thing new in the Boston globe article was the quote from some chick from the Carter administration.

And Romney’s receiving a $100,000 salary from Bain after 1999?

The Post can ‘debunk’ the claims, but the SEC filings state that Mitt was the Owner, CEO, President and Managing Director. So, assuming the SEC filings are correct, his other statements to the public, us, are simply wrong.

87 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 12:52:46pm

re: #84 Targetpractice

What it boils down to is that one can legitimately say that Romney was CEO when Bain was doing XYZ between ‘99 and ‘01.

Yep, and honestly if he was just there collecting a salary, I think that’s a fair indictment on the system as a whole. There is no reason why he should have gotten 100,000 for “doing nothing”, a salary as already pointed out is more than double the median income, that fact should bother people far more than public sector union employees having pensions but that’s another story.

88 wrenchwench  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 12:53:57pm

re: #83 Kragar

Conservapedia has a listing for the guy, which contains perfectly relevant information

Blair Scott

Well, if Conservapedia lists the weight of each of their contributors, it might be slightly relevant. But I’m guessing they don’t.

89 wrenchwench  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 12:55:00pm

re: #85 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You

Any suggestions as to how I can better explain the current state of the internet connection options available to her?

I recommend psychedelics. She needs to open her mind.

90 blueraven  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 12:55:02pm

re: #82 Killgore Trout

Ah, I see that’s from July 2 but it still covers the same SEC documents. Despite the claims these appear to be the same SEC documents the fact checkers have already adressed. Even the WaPo fact checker noted that the documents have already been discussed, the only thing new in the Boston globe article was the quote from some chick from the Carter administration.

And these little tidbits

“In Romney’s 2002 race for governor, he testified before the state Ballot Law Commission that his separation from Bain in 1999 had been a “leave of absence” and not a final departure.”

[…]

Government documents filed by Mitt Romney and Bain Capital say Romney remained chief executive and chairman of the firm three years beyond the date he said he ceded control, even creating five new investment partnerships during that time.

[Link: www.boston.com…]

91 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 12:57:32pm

re: #90 blueraven

And these little tidbits

[Link: www.boston.com…]

That’s very interesting. So it was a leave of absence, now he’s saying he left. As I said earlier, I think he wants to take all the credit for Bain’s successes and run away from its controversial parts. He really is showing here why he should not be president.

92 danarchy  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:00:54pm

re: #76 Big Joe

Mitt Romney should, at least, return any salary, compensation, and earnings to Bain investors for the 3 years he says he didn’t do anything for the company.

The owner of my company is semi-retired, spends most of his days up in NH hanging out with his dogs and playing on his homemade gun range or working at his new sideline making maple syrup. He still collects a nice fat paycheck because he started the company, put in the crazy long hours for the first 5 years getting it off the ground, and forwent many a paycheck so he could make payroll for his employees, and I don’t begrudge him a penny of it.

93 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:01:02pm

re: #49 Killgore Trout

This stuff about Bain and SEC filings is over my head but so far the nonpartisan fact checkers don’t think these stories are true. I’ll side with them over partisan sources Mother Jones and TPM.

You’re basically saying that you can’t actually think for yourself. Also, as far as I can tell the fact checkers haven’t yet addressed the SEC documents because those are new revelations. They simply wave their hands and disbelieved previous reports that the SEC documents could possibly exist.

94 Jack Burton  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:01:47pm

re: #88 wrenchwench

Well, if Conservapedia lists the weight of each of their contributors, it might be slightly relevant. But I’m guessing they don’t.

Kookservapedia has this obsession with trying to show that atheists are unhealthy. Pages of bogus statistics showing they are more likely to eat bad, be obese, smoke, drink excessively, etc…

95 dell*nix  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:01:57pm

re: #85 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You

AOL = 1939 Nash
Broadband = 2010 Mustang

96 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:03:04pm

re: #90 blueraven

And these little tidbits

[Link: www.boston.com…]

Yes, I read that. That’s what we’re talking about, the fact checking sites had already debunked the claims in the article. The only thing I can see that’s new is quotes from the lady.

97 sattv4u2  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:03:19pm

re: #92 danarchy

From 2000-2002 Berkshire Hathaway owned our company (we were on the verge of bankruptcy)
I doubt Warren Buffett even knew we existed !!

I DO know he wasn’t involved in the day to day/ month to month/ Q to Q ops!!

98 wrenchwench  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:04:10pm

re: #94 ArchangelMichael

Kookservapedia has this obsession with trying to show that atheists are unhealthy. Pages of bogus statistics showing they are more likely to eat bad, be obese, smoke, drink excessively, etc…

Then as a fit, non-smoking, almost non-drinking atheist who eats well, my opinion should be considered Gospel over there.

99 sattv4u2  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:04:20pm

re: #96 Killgore Trout

So much for the paucity of Bottom Ten Comments!
//

100 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:04:57pm

re: #92 danarchy

The owner of my company is semi-retired, spends most of his days up in NH hanging out with his dogs and playing on his homemade gun range or working at his new sideline making maple syrup. He still collects a nice fat paycheck because he started the company, put in the crazy long hours for the first 5 years getting it off the ground, and forwent many a paycheck so he could make payroll for his employees, and I don’t begrudge him a penny of it.

Your boss is not claiming that he is qualified to run the country.

101 William of Orange  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:04:59pm

It’s like shouting in an echo well…..


MAINSTREAM MEDIA! WHERE ARE YOU!! (ou…. ou… ouu…..)

102 danarchy  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:07:09pm

re: #100 Expand Your Ground

Your boss is not claiming that he is qualified to run the country.

You apparently don’t know my boss ;)

Also, I was just responding to the assertion he should return compensation from the time period he wasn’t actively managing.

103 gwangung  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:09:44pm

re: #97 sattv4u2

From 2000-2002 Berkshire Hathaway owned our company (we were on the verge of bankruptcy)
I doubt Warren Buffett even knew we existed !!

I DO know he wasn’t involved in the day to day/ month to month/ Q to Q ops!!

However, I think Buffet would accept responsibility for what your company did.

104 nines09  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:10:06pm

re: #85 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You
Offer to treat her to Starbucks for coffee and tell her to bring her laptop with and bring yours along. Show her the “magic” available to her. Then have her talk to an employee about the WIFI connections in the store and just how they work. Might be worth the 2 coffees.

105 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:11:09pm

re: #92 danarchy

The owner of my company is semi-retired, spends most of his days up in NH hanging out with his dogs and playing on his homemade gun range or working at his new sideline making maple syrup. He still collects a nice fat paycheck because he started the company, put in the crazy long hours for the first 5 years getting it off the ground, and forwent many a paycheck so he could make payroll for his employees, and I don’t begrudge him a penny of it.

Point being what exactly? It’s still his responsibility, even if he delegates it.

106 allegro  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:11:20pm

re: #97 sattv4u2

From 2000-2002 Berkshire Hathaway owned our company (we were on the verge of bankruptcy)
I doubt Warren Buffett even knew we existed !!

I DO know he wasn’t involved in the day to day/ month to month/ Q to Q ops!!

Is Warren Buffet the 100% sole shareholder, CEO, President, and Managing Director of your company? If he isn’t, then your comparison is bogus.

107 sattv4u2  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:11:43pm

re: #103 gwangung

However, I think Buffet would accept responsibility for what your company did.

Not really

As stated, we were just spread sheet item. A blip in his universe. He had a board that would decide what to do with us (break it up and sell the parts or invest a little, shining it up to sell for a profit, which they did

108 William of Orange  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:14:20pm

Given Romney’s Olympic credentials, this piece of news is quite ironic!

And to top it off, it’s coming from Fox News!

Reid calls for officials to ‘burn’ China-made Team USA Olympic uniforms


Not made in America?


Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid slammed the U.S. Olympic Committee Thursday over reports that the Team USA uniforms were made in China, saying officials “should burn” them.

Reid, D-Nev., made the remarks following reports that China has already taken gold from America by manufacturing the uniforms Team USA will wear during the opening ceremonies.

“I think the Olympic Committee should be ashamed,” Reid told reporters on Capitol Hill. He said they should “burn” the current uniforms, and would rather America’s athletes wear shirts with “USA” hand-painted on them.

In a statement to FoxNews.com, the U.S. Olympic Committee said it was “proud” of its partnership with the company.

Guess who offshored the taylor jobs! Yes, companies like Bain…

If it wasn’t sad, it would be hilarious!

109 sattv4u2  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:14:31pm

re: #106 allegro

Is Warren Buffet the 100% sole shareholder, CEO, President, and Managing Director of your company? If he isn’t, then your comparison is bogus.

He’s Chairman, President & CEO of Berkshire Hathaway which bought our company, so yes

110 Kragar  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:15:31pm

re: #94 ArchangelMichael

Kookservapedia has this obsession with trying to show that atheists are unhealthy. Pages of bogus statistics showing they are more likely to eat bad, be obese, smoke, drink excessively, etc…

Like Southerners then?

111 gwangung  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:15:49pm

re: #107 sattv4u2

Not really

As stated, we were just spread sheet item. A blip in his universe. He had a board that would decide what to do with us (break it up and sell the parts or invest a little, shining it up to sell for a profit, which they did

Hm. Well, my research on him would indicate differently; old style manager in that even line items are still under his eye. If the company screwed up (not likely, since he’s usually too careful on that), he’d man up and be responsible.

112 danarchy  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:15:59pm

re: #105 goddamnedfrank

Point being what exactly? It’s still his responsibility, even if he delegates it.

As stated above I was responding to the assertion by big joe he should return any compensation or profits from the years he wasn’t actively managing. I didn’t involve myself in any other part of the conversation, so if you read anything into it about responsibility, that’s all you.

113 gwangung  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:16:45pm

re: #109 sattv4u2

He’s Chairman, President & CEO of Berkshire Hathaway which bought our company, so yes

Um, no. Not quite correct. He’s chair, president, etc., but not sole shareholder.

114 Mattand  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:22:37pm

re: #85 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You

I say this with no sarcasm or malice: give up and walk away.

I go through this shit with my sister and my dad. They ask my advice and then procede to ignore it. They then limp all long with the same problem for literally years, all the while complaining about the problem.

The best is my sister getting indignant when I tell them I’m tired of this endless circle. “Just because we ask for your help doesn’t mean we have to do it!”

And this is from a teacher.

If they want to hire someone, fuck it. I’m sure they’re nice people but you’re fighting a losing battle. Christ, you let them your internet for free. If they can’t figure out by now that you know what you’re doing, they’re own their own.

115 wrenchwench  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:25:55pm

re: #114 Mattand

I say this with no sarcasm or malice: give up and walk away.

I go through this shit with my sister and my dad. They ask my advice and then procede to ignore it. They then limp all long with the same problem for literally years, all the while complaining about the problem.

The best is my sister getting indignant when I tell them I’m tired of this endless circle. “Just because we ask for your help doesn’t mean we have to do it!”

And this is from a teacher.

If they want to hire someone, fuck it. I’m sure they’re nice people but you’re fighting a losing battle. Christ, you let them your internet for free. If they can’t figure out how that you know what you’re doing, they’re own their own.

Some people only give value to things that cost money. They mistake “free” for “worthless”. Of course they would think it was rude for Tiny Alien Kitties to start charging at this point. But they have no problem being rude themselves.

116 Mattand  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:33:25pm

re: #115 wrenchwench

Some people only give value to things that cost money. They mistake “free” for “worthless”. Of course they would think it was rude for Tiny Alien Kitties to start charging at this point. But they have no problem being rude themselves.

I didn’t so much get “rude” as I did “computer phobic”. IMO, their digital illiteracy is leading to frustration because they don’t understand what TAK is saying (which is very clear).

For example, my dad still rents his modem from Comcast. It’s cost him probably $400 over the years. I offered to help him buy and install one; the modem is $60 and I’ll just eat a sandwich in payment. No dice. Doesn’t understand what a modem is, doesn’t care. When I try to explain how it will save him money, he gets mad at me.

TAK should just walk away. It’s a lost cause at this point.

117 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:06:56pm

re: #115 wrenchwench

Some people only give value to things that cost money. They mistake “free” for “worthless”. Of course they would think it was rude for Tiny Alien Kitties to start charging at this point. But they have no problem being rude themselves.

At this point I’m actually thinking of simply shutting down the wireless, It has not been used here since my mother passed, keeping it going has only been a courtesy to my upstairs neighbors. Maybe once Fran’s new windows 7 laptop cannot connect to the internet anymore she will be more inclined to listen to suggestions about how to get it back online. It isn’t that I mind them piggybacking on my connection, they aren’t downloading movies or otherwise clogging my bandwidth. It is that they could purchase a even better (for themselves) internet connection than the two-three bar wireless one they get from me thru the intervening concrete and steel for about the same money they already pay for the nearly useless dial-up. (Did I mention that to use AOL dial-up you have to use the AOL home page that includes pop-up ads, video ads, audio ads, video and audio enabled ads, and screen scrolling ads? On an effing Dial-up connection? It takes three to five minutes just to load their friggin homepage upstairs!)

Not to mention that all of Verizons current plans (I looked) now include a wireless modem (A $34.95 Value!) as part of the standard DSL package. Which means they would not even have to run a cat 5 cable to the laptop, Fran could continue to use it exactly as she always has with no change whatsoever.

For now I’m going to keep pushing them to change, but if I continue to be unsuccessful then maybe I have no option other than to cut them off from the freebie connection and hope that that induces them to come to their senses about this.

118 BeenHereAwhile  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:56:04pm

re: #114 Mattand

re: #85 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You

I say this with no sarcasm or malice: give up and walk away.
I go through this shit with my sister and my dad. They ask my advice and then procede to ignore it. They then limp all long with the same problem for literally years, all the while complaining about the problem.
[snip]

I *had* this problem with my wife and other members of my family who would regularly load up their hard drive with cookies and spyware, install data sucking links on their homepage (it’s taking too long to boot & load the homepage), and complain that their latest iTunes song (directly downloaded to handheld, and not telling me) had been left off after their handheld had been synced.

NEW RULE! Having problems with your computer or handheld? Hire someone to fix it. Life is so much better now.


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