Fortune Obtains Bain Documents ‘Supporting’ Romney

But do they really?
Politics • Views: 39,294

Fortune’s Dan Primack has some new documents from Bain Capital that he says support Mitt Romney’s version of the events around his departure from Bain: Documents: Romney Didn’t Manage Bain Funds.

Fortune has obtained new evidence that supports Romney’s version of events.

Bain Capital began circulating offering documents for its seventh private equity fund in June 2000. Those documents include several pages specifying fund management. The section begins:

Set forth below is information regarding the background of the senior private equity investment professionals of Bain Capital. Also listed are certain investment professionals responsible for the day-to-day affairs of the Brookside and Sankaty funds, which are affiliated funds of Fund VII.

It then goes on to list 18 managers of the private equity fund. Mitt Romney is not among them. Same goes for an affiliated co-investment fund, whose private placement memorandum is dated September 2000.

Then there is Bain Capital Venture Fund — the firm’s first dedicated venture capital effort — whose private placement memorandum is dated January 2001. Romney also isn’t listed among its “key investment professionals,” or as part of its day-to-day operations or investment committee.

I’m not sure Primack’s documents are as convincing as he seems to think. A question that occurs to me immediately is whether Romney, as CEO and Managing Director of Bain Capital, was routinely listed in these kinds of investment documents — or whether it was just assumed he would be part of it, since he was, after all, the CEO.

If Fortune (who apparently has a Bain source leaking documents to them) can produce similar documents prior to 2000 that include Mitt Romney as an “investment professional,” that would support Romney’s claims since it would show a clear point of departure after which he was no longer active in the company. But if Romney’s name didn’t usually appear in these documents, this is meaningless.

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369 comments
1 Bulworth  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:04:58pm
Then there is Bain Capital Venture Fund — the firm’s first dedicated venture capital effort — whose private placement memorandum is dated January 2001. Romney also isn’t listed among its “key investment professionals,” or as part of its day-to-day operations or investment committee.

So why is Mitt still listed as the CEO and Managing Director in SEC filings after 1999?

2 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:05:39pm

If such a document could be produced, it would do nothing more than demonstrate that Romney was no longer being advertised as being in direct control of the company. Nothing short of meeting minutes or other such documentation could prove that Romney was totally hands-off from '99-'01.

3 Amory Blaine  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:08:52pm

Lying liar lies.

4 blueraven  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:09:43pm

Romney could put this to rest by releasing his tax returns.

5 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:10:02pm

re: #1 Bulworth

So why is Mitt still listed as the CEO and Managing Director in SEC filings after 1999?

I think the term I've seen used is "turn key". His name was on the paperwork and SEC filings, he probably had to sign some stuff but the transition team did the day to day running of the company and investment management.

6 gwangung  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:12:15pm

re: #5 Killgore Trout

I think the term I've seen used is "turn key". His name was on the paperwork and SEC filings, he probably had to sign some stuff but the transition team did the day to day running of the company and investment management.

re: #5 Killgore Trout

I think the term I've seen used is "turn key". His name was on the paperwork and SEC filings, he probably had to sign some stuff but the transition team did the day to day running of the company and investment management.

Now, he could have said that up front, you know, and produce paperwork for that. And there are still responsibilities he has, even as a figure head.

7 wrenchwench  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:13:25pm

re: #5 Killgore Trout

he probably had to sign some stuff

That would imply a great deal of responsibility, would it not? Or did he not read the stuff first?

8 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:13:34pm

re: #6 gwangung

re: #5 Killgore Trout

Now, he could have said that up front, you know.

He did, and that's what the fact checkers said as well. This should come as a surprise.

9 elisabeth  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:13:50pm

re: #5 Killgore Trout

Why has no one been brought forward as the person(s) running the company? And why did said person(s) not sign the SEC paperwork?

Could put this to rest.

10 Amory Blaine  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:14:05pm

re: #7 wrenchwench

That would imply a great deal of responsibility, would it not? Or did he not read the stuff first?

No worries. It's just stuff.

11 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:14:47pm

re: #7 wrenchwench

That would imply a great deal of responsibility, would it not? Or did he not read the stuff first?

He probably didn't read anything. Boring legal mumbo-jumbo and legal formalities.

12 wrenchwench  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:16:02pm

re: #11 Killgore Trout

He probably didn't read anything. Boring legal mumbo-jumbo and legal formalities.

There's that implication of responsibility again.

13 blueraven  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:16:06pm

re: #11 Killgore Trout

He probably didn't read anything. Boring legal mumbo-jumbo and legal formalities.

Really?!

14 sattv4u2  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:17:21pm

re: #7 wrenchwench

That would imply a great deal of responsibility, would it not? Or did he not read the stuff first?

Do you really think a Warren Buffet, in his role as Chairman, President & CEO of Berkshire Hathaway, reads all the "stuff" on every asset they aquire?

15 sattv4u2  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:17:31pm

re: #13 blueraven

Really?!

see 14

16 wrenchwench  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:18:09pm

re: #13 blueraven

Really?!

His army of lawyers and CPAs must have read it. Funny, though, Romney still did the signing....

17 gwangung  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:18:25pm

re: #14 sattv4u2

Do you really think a Warren Buffet, in his role as Chairman, President & CEO of Berkshire Hathaway, reads all the "stuff" on every asset they aquire?

He accepts financial and legal responsibility. That's part of being Chairman/CEO.

18 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:18:40pm

Globe admits credit 'mistake' in Bain story

"Pieces of this story were reported by other news organizations. We believe the Globe advanced the story with a more comprehensive and complete look that broke significant news and included additional documents," Baron said in a statement to POLITICO. "However, our policy is to give credit to other news organizations for their work. In the editing and shortening process, I have learned, passages giving credit were removed. That was a mistake, and we are now adding appropriate credit back to the online version."

On July 2 and again on July 3, Mother Jones Washington bureau chief David Corn reported that SEC filings indicated Romney had played a role in Bain investments "until at least the end of 1999" and that a May 10, 2001, document described Romney as a member of the "management committee" of Bain funds.

On July 10, Talking Points Memo editor and publisher Josh Marshall uncovered two more SEC filings from July 2000 and February 2001 in which Romney listed his “principal occupation” as “Managing Director of Bain Capital, Inc.”

The original Globe article, which cites the previously reported SEC filings, did not mention Mother Jones or TPM, and did not link to those stories online.

19 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:18:49pm

re: #14 sattv4u2

Do you really think a Warren Buffet, in his role as Chairman, President & CEO of Berkshire Hathaway, reads all the "stuff" on every asset they aquire?

Do you suppose that Warren Buffet does not bear responsibility for what he signs?

20 sattv4u2  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:19:06pm

re: #16 wrenchwench

His army of lawyers and CPAs must have read it. Funny, though, Romney still did the signing...

Absolutely. Right after his lawyer said "looks good,, sign here boss"

21 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:19:58pm

re: #13 blueraven

Really?!

Really. I wouldn't be surprised to learn they were robosigned or simply smacked with a rubber stamp by a secretary.

22 wrenchwench  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:20:33pm

re: #14 sattv4u2

Do you really think a Warren Buffet, in his role as Chairman, President & CEO of Berkshire Hathaway, reads all the "stuff" on every asset they aquire?

Is this a relevant question here? Is "a Warren Buffet" the equivalent? Is "asset acquisition" what we're talking about? Does what I think about those things matter?

23 allegro  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:21:06pm

re: #20 sattv4u2

Absolutely. Right after his lawyer said "looks good,, sign here boss"

Which makes it still HIS signature and HIS responsibility.

24 iossarian  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:21:07pm

re: #18 Killgore Trout

Desperate.

25 wrenchwench  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:21:07pm

re: #20 sattv4u2

Absolutely. Right after his lawyer said "looks good,, sign here boss"

That's what makes Romney involved and responsible.

26 sattv4u2  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:21:50pm

re: #24 iossarian

Desperate.

Desperate,,,,nahhh

OUTRAGEOUS,, YES!!!

27 Sionainn  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:22:33pm

re: #17 gwangung

He accepts financial and legal responsiblity. That's part of being Chairman/CEO.

Yeah, isn't that why they get paid the big bucks? Reminds me of Scalia whining about having to actually read the health care law he was going to pass judgment on.

28 allegro  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:23:08pm

If signing documents one doesn't fully understand absolves responsibility then there are several million people who signed predatory mortgages who should be immediately relieved of any further responsibility for paying for them.

29 William of Orange  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:23:51pm

I love this Harry Reid quote:

TRENDING: Reid: Romney couldn't be confirmed as dog catcher


Posted by
CNN Senior Congressional Correspondent Dana Bash

Washington (CNN) – Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid blasted Mitt Romney Thursday in personal and biting terms, so to speak, telling reporters the presumed Republican presidential nominee could not be confirmed as "dog catcher" by the Senate.

A day earlier, Reid said on the Senate floor that Romney "couldn't get approved" as a Cabinet officer, because "he won't show anybody his income tax returns."

Fact.

30 blueraven  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:23:52pm

re: #18 Killgore Trout

Globe admits credit 'mistake' in Bain story

So? They didn't credit someone properly.

31 blueraven  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:25:10pm

re: #28 allegro

If signing documents one doesn't fully understand absolves responsibility then there are several million people who signed predatory mortgages who should be immediately relieved of any further responsibility for paying for them.

legal mumbo jumbo!

32 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:25:36pm

re: #26 sattv4u2

Desperate,,,nahhh

OUTRAGEOUS,, YES!!!

It also explains a lot of the confusion (like the July 2 Mother Jones article). The Globe appeared to claim that these were new documents they acquired as a fresh breaking story when in fact they were old claims that had already been hashed out. Ironically, the sources for these old claims were the first to jump on the globe article as new documents.

33 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:26:20pm

re: #21 Killgore Trout

Really. I wouldn't be surprised to learn they were robosigned or simply smacked with a rubber stamp by a secretary.

So, he's going with the Ron Paul excuse? "Yes, my name is on the documents, but no, I didn't read or approve of them"?

34 sattv4u2  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:26:22pm

Pooches need nourishment

BBIAW

35 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:27:18pm

This is not about smoking guns. It is about Romney's claims that his business background at Bain Capital qualify him to be a President "who understands business".

Seems he understands the nature of modern American business all too well.

36 The Questionable Timing of a Flea  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:27:19pm

re: #33 Targetpractice

So, he's going with the Ron Paul excuse? "Yes, my name is on the documents, but no, I didn't read or approve of them"?

Personalize the successes, socialize the failures.

37 Kragar  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:27:53pm

re: #21 Killgore Trout

Really. I wouldn't be surprised to learn they were robosigned or simply smacked with a rubber stamp by a secretary.

Which would mean the ultimate authority still resided with Romney, since it would have been his name they would have been signing.

38 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:29:38pm

re: #30 blueraven

So? They didn't credit someone properly.

Sort of. They've changed the article now. I'd have to go back and reread the original but I think they were misleading by claiming they had new proof and new documents when in reality they were recycling old stories which had already been debunked. It might be an honest mistake or sloppy journalism but it does also look like a dishonest attempt to breathe new life into dead stories.

39 Obdicut  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:29:53pm

re: #32 Killgore Trout

You seem to be consistently missing the point.

Romney was CEO, and sole shareholder during the years in question. If he delegated authority, he delegated it. It is his responsibility. Delegation doesn't absolve one of responsibility. At best, you can claim the person you delegated it to acted contrary to your instructions when you delegated it.

Whether he made the actual decisions to outsource is completely immaterial; he was CEO, as declared to the SEC, during the times in question. If he didn't want that responsibility, he should have resigned as CEO at that point. The best case scenario is he held on to the title, and the salary, while doing no work so that he could structure his exit in a way that would benefit him.

You seem to be getting lost in the details and ignoring that there is no possible way that this story flows that doesn't show huge, obvious, glaring problems in Romney as a candidate. It's not about Romney cackling as he creates a plan to outsource jobs, it's about Romney's company, which he owned and was CEO of, doing this.

Someone who can't take responsibility for what a company did that they owned and CEO of-- it reminds me most of Ron Paul and his newsletters.

40 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:30:21pm

I'm not exactly hearing an argument that makes Romney look good in any conceivable way. The current line of argument that he was so disconnected from what was going on that his name was being robo-signed to documents concerning the running of Bain Capital does not make this situation better.

41 blueraven  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:30:47pm

re: #32 Killgore Trout

It also explains a lot of the confusion (like the July 2 Mother Jones article). The Globe appeared to claim that these were new documents they acquired as a fresh breaking story when in fact they were old claims that had already been hashed out. Ironically, the sources for these old claims were the first to jump on the globe article as new documents.

There were new documents KT

On July 10, Talking Points Memo editor and publisher Josh Marshall uncovered two more SEC filings from July 2000 and February 2001 in which Romney listed his “principal occupation” as “Managing Director of Bain Capital, Inc.”

From the politico story
[Link: www.politico.com...]

42 lawhawk  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:32:32pm

Killgore - Romney would still be responsible for the day-to-day affairs and would be on the hook for any irregularities with filings or other acts by Bain. It's basic corporate officer liability stuff; he'd have to show he was not in charge as of those dates - and a retroactive severance deal doesn't necessarily help him in that regard. It would be as though he's trying to disavow acts by Bain taken during that period.

Moreover, Romney's recollections are probably skewed by the fact that he was able to negotiate a retroactive severance deal to 1999. He negotiated it in 2002.

It would be something to get a hold of that severance agreement, or the other documents from the 1999 to 2002 period that show whether (and what) Romney delegated to others in the company.

But since he was still being listed as the CEO, managing director, etc., on the corporate filings, that would have the weight of evidence coming down that he was still in charge for those dates.

43 wrenchwench  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:33:02pm

re: #39 Obdicut

You seem to be consistently missing the point.

Romney was CEO, and sole shareholder during the years in question. If he delegated authority, he delegated it. It is his responsibility. Delegation doesn't absolve one of responsibility. At best, you can claim the person you delegated it to acted contrary to your instructions when you delegated it.

Whether he made the actual decisions to outsource is completely immaterial; he was CEO, as declared to the SEC, during the times in question. If he didn't want that responsibility, he should have resigned as CEO at that point. The best case scenario is he held on to the title, and the salary, while doing no work so that he could structure his exit in a way that would benefit him.

You seem to be getting lost in the details and ignoring that there is no possible way that this story flows that doesn't show huge, obvious, glaring problems in Romney as a candidate. It's not about Romney cackling as he creates a plan to outsource jobs, it's about Romney's company, which he owned and was CEO of, doing this.

Someone who can't take responsibility for what a company did that they owned and CEO of-- it reminds me most of Ron Paul and his newsletters.

Shorter version:

44 iossarian  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:33:38pm

re: #41 blueraven

There were new documents KT

From the politico story
[Link: www.politico.com...]

Preemptive Killgore response:

"I don't pay much attention to partisan sources mumble mumble nothing new here mumble mumble trust politico and this one guy at the Washington Post who appears to like Romney."

45 iossarian  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:34:06pm

Romney == Bain

46 mr.fusion  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:34:45pm

Make me President because I was CEO of Bain*

*Actually experience at Bain was just as a figure head --- except for Staples....that was totally all me

47 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:35:33pm

And the Romney campaign proceeds to dig itself deeper:

Romney Campaign Calls On Obama To Apologize For Staffer’s Remarks

Mitt Romney’s campaign manager Matt Rhoades issued a scorching statement Thursday calling on President Obama to apologize for top aide Stephanie Cutter’s suggestion that the ex-governor either lied or committed a felony regarding his tenure at Bain.

Rhoades’s statement:

“President Obama’s campaign hit a new low today when one of its senior advisers made a reckless and unsubstantiated charge to reporters about Mitt Romney that was so over the top that it calls into question the integrity of their entire campaign. President Obama ought to apologize for the out-of-control behavior of his staff, which demeans the office he holds. Campaigns are supposed to be hard fought, but statements like those made by Stephanie Cutter belittle the process and the candidate on whose behalf she works.”

48 blueraven  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:37:15pm

re: #38 Killgore Trout

Sort of. They've changed the article now. I'd have to go back and reread the original but I think they were misleading by claiming they had new proof and new documents when in reality they were recycling old stories which had already been debunked. It might be an honest mistake or sloppy journalism but it does also look like a dishonest attempt to breathe new life into dead stories.

Again, there were new SEC filings obtained by TPM's John Marshall on July 10.

On July 10, Talking Points Memo editor and publisher Josh Marshall uncovered two more SEC filings from July 2000 and February 2001 in which Romney listed his “principal occupation” as “Managing Director of Bain Capital, Inc.”

Dont you read the stories you link to?

49 darthstar  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:39:23pm

Posted without comment...the graphic speaks for itself.

Image: 168848_10150944230444639_1901981859_n.jpg

50 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:39:47pm

re: #47 Targetpractice

" President Obama ought to apologize for the out-of-control behavior of his staff, which demeans the office he holds"

Because bosses are supposed to be responsible for what the people under them are doing, right?

51 Sionainn  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:40:00pm

re: #47 Targetpractice

And the Romney campaign proceeds to dig itself deeper:

Romney Campaign Calls On Obama To Apologize For Staffer’s Remarks

LOL. Obama should tell them to stuff it.

52 Jimmi the Grey  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:40:34pm

re: #47 Targetpractice

And the Romney campaign proceeds to dig itself deeper:

Romney Campaign Calls On Obama To Apologize For Staffer’s Remarks

Now here is our new ad buy in which we call the president a liar...

53 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:41:05pm

re: #51 Sionainn

LOL. Obama should tell them to stuff it.

Obama should ask him to first point out the "lie," then reiterate the challenge set out, namely to prove it's a "lie."

54 iossarian  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:41:06pm

re: #50 Expand Your Ground

" President Obama ought to apologize for the out-of-control behavior of his staff, which demeans the office he holds"

Because bosses are supposed to be responsible for what the people under them are doing, right?

Lol. Precisely.

55 lawhawk  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:41:59pm

The IRS routinely assumes that corporate officers are responsible persons, and the courts generally agree that officers are responsible persons in the absence of evidence to the contrary. Responsibility is a matter of
status, duty, and authority, rather than knowledge.

Romney would be considered a responsible person for tax purposes absent any other evidence showing he was no longer involved in Bain from the 1999 to 2002 period based on the fact that there are SEC filings showing him as a corporate officer during that time. The retroactive severance agreement, signed in 2002 could show that he was no longer involved if it formalizes duties and other agreements, but that would require showing those other duties and agreements were actually acted upon. There would be a paper trail in any event with evidence falling one way or another.

56 Sionainn  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:42:52pm

re: #53 Targetpractice

Obama should ask him to first point out the "lie," then reiterate the challenge set out, namely to prove it's a "lie."

Yes, but that's too professional. Just once, I'd like to see Obama, with a a huge grin, telling someone off.

57 Obdicut  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:43:02pm

re: #55 lawhawk

And even beyond that, if he was 100% sole shareholder, he still takes all responsibility in the end.

58 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:44:50pm

re: #47 Targetpractice

And the Romney campaign proceeds to dig itself deeper:

Romney Campaign Calls On Obama To Apologize For Staffer’s Remarks

Yes, all apologies are handled by his secretary Helen Waite. For your apology just go to Helen Waite.

59 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:46:27pm

re: #55 lawhawk

re: #57 Obdicut

So in short, his name's on the paperwork, so in absence of evidence to the contrary, he bears responsibility for what Bain was doing. He can argue that he wasn't involved in day-to-day decision-making, but in the end the buck stopped at his desk.

60 wrenchwench  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:46:31pm

re: #55 lawhawk

There would be a paper trail in any event with evidence falling one way or another.

Would be nice to see that, wouldn't it?

61 darthstar  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:47:00pm
62 iossarian  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:47:13pm

re: #55 lawhawk

All this noise is about Romney at Bain, 1999 to 2002. But even beyond that (and the laughable claim, if nothing else, that he "left" Bain in 1999), there are his pre-1999 investments in offshoring, and his trying to hide said investments in shell companies in the Caribbean.

To say nothing of his evading tax by being paid in artificially-low valued shares which subsequently "miraculously" matured into multi-million dollar investments.

The guy's a crook through and through.

63 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:47:44pm

re: #48 blueraven

They claimed they were new. I'm not sure that's true. You could pile through the fact checking sites to see if those exact documents had already been used in debunking the stories. WaPo's fact checker just linked to previous debunkings of the same claims. Either way the documents didn't show anything new, same old stuff and still not true despite the new claims.
Actually the only "new" thing we have on the story today appears to be the documents supporting Mitt's claim that a transition team took over in 1999. Even that's not really new because that's what the fact checkers have been telling us for a while now.

64 palomino  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:48:10pm

re: #20 sattv4u2

Absolutely. Right after his lawyer said "looks good,, sign here boss"

Then your boy Mitt is absolved of all responsibility for anything a lawyer hands him and tells him to sign? That will certainly come in handy as president, won't it?

"Let Detroit die...No, I saved Detroit...Did I sign something?"

65 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:48:43pm

re: #62 iossarian

All this noise is about Romney at Bain, 1999 to 2002. But even beyond that (and the laughable claim, if nothing else, that he "left" Bain in 1999), there are his pre-1999 investments in offshoring, and his trying to hide said investments in shell companies in the Caribbean.

To say nothing of his evading tax by being paid in artificially-low valued shares which subsequently "miraculously" matured into multi-million dollar investments.

The guy's a crook through and through.

He's Gordon Gekko in all but name. Let's leave it at that.

66 gwangung  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:52:21pm

re: #63 Killgore Trout

They claimed they were new. I'm not sure that's true. You could pile through the fact checking sites to see if those exact documents had already been used in debunking the stories. WaPo's fact checker just linked to previous debunkings of the same claims. Either way the documents didn't show anything new, same old stuff and still not true despite the new claims.
Actually the only "new" thing we have on the story today appears to be the documents supporting Mitt's claim that a transition team took over in 1999. Even that's not really new because that's what the fact checkers have been telling us for a while now.

Dude, stop digging.

It is most certainly clear that you have no idea on the ins and outs of SEC documents and LLCs. More than a few people around here do. You're just embarassing yourself.

67 wrenchwench  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:53:33pm

re: #62 iossarian

All this noise is about Romney at Bain, 1999 to 2002. But even beyond that (and the laughable claim, if nothing else, that he "left" Bain in 1999), there are his pre-1999 investments in offshoring, and his trying to hide said investments in shell companies in the Caribbean.

To say nothing of his evading tax by being paid in artificially-low valued shares which subsequently "miraculously" matured into multi-million dollar investments.

The guy's a crook through and through.

It's just business as usual.

The only difference is that he's under scrutiny because he's running for office, and due to a certain recent worldwide economic meltdown, the phrase "successful business man" just doesn't have the positive ring it used to.

68 Kragar  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:56:22pm

re: #67 wrenchwench

It's just business as usual.

The only difference is that he's under scrutiny because he's running for office, and due to a certain recent worldwide economic meltdown, the phrase "successful business man" just doesn't have the positive ring it used to.

The term used to mean you worked hard and built something. Nowadays, it means you're really great at fucking over the other guy.

69 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:57:22pm

re: #68 Kragar

The term used to mean you worked hard and built something. Nowadays, it means you're really great at fucking over the other guy.

And then taking credit for his work.

70 darthstar  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:59:48pm
71 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:00:28pm

And this is where it all flies back at him like a wet towel: he is running on his experience as a "successful businessman", while we are growingly aware of what his "success" as based on.

72 Kragar  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:01:11pm

Maine Governor: IRS Is Headed In The Direction Of Killing A Lot Of People

On Saturday, LePage said in his weekly radio address, “You must buy health insurance or pay the new Gestapo – the IRS.” After outcry from Jewish groups including the Anti-Defamation League, the governor released a statement partially backtracking his comments. On Wednesday, the head of the union representing IRS employees also demanded an apology for the insensitive remark, saying his rhetoric put federal employees in danger. But

LePage doubled down when confronted, even when Heintz pressed him:

HEINTZ: Do you have a sense of what the Gestapo actually did during World War II?

LEPAGE: Yeah. They killed a lot of people.

HEINTZ: So the IRS is headed in that direction? They’re headed in the direction of killing a lot of people?

LEPAGE: Yeah.

HEINTZ: Wait, are you serious?

73 iossarian  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:02:00pm

re: #67 wrenchwench

It's just business as usual.

The only difference is that he's under scrutiny because he's running for office, and due to a certain recent worldwide economic meltdown, the phrase "successful business man" just doesn't have the positive ring it used to.

My own (fairly short) experience in corporate America is that there is still a spectrum of ethical behavior. I met several business leaders who I truly believe would work hard for their company and not try to gain personal advantage other than the "normal" compensation they would be awarded.

But unfortunately, those guys are in a losing battle with the Romneys of this world, because when you behave ethically in a system like the one we have today, you are playing against a stacked deck.

re: #68 Kragar

The term used to mean you worked hard and built something. Nowadays, it means you're really great at fucking over the other guy.

To some extent, this has always been true, but the difference is that in the past, the regulatory system had enough teeth to take out the worst offenders, and keep most people in line.

74 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:04:02pm

re: #72 Kragar

Maine Governor: IRS Is Headed In The Direction Of Killing A Lot Of People

[snip]

HEINTZ: Wait, are you serious?

Yeah, seriously disturbed.

75 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:04:57pm

Bomb threat forces closure of Detroit-Canada tunnel
The real shocker for me is there's a tunnel from Detroit to Canada.

76 Prideful, Arrogant Marriage Equality Advocate  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:15:14pm

I don't know why the right is so eager to distance Romney from this. They are the ones who are always going on and on about Free Markets and how pro corporation and business they are. He was running a big company that he was in charge of making sure it made a good profit and in order for company's like that to make the profits that give right wingers and especially Libertarians wet dreams, they outsource. Thats how it has been for a while now. That's what Corporations do. Why are they all of a sudden upset about outsourcing?

77 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:18:17pm

re: #76 Condescending Snotty Jaun Williams Elitist

I don't know why the right is so eager to distance Romney from this. They are the ones who are always going on and on about Free Markets and how pro corporation and business they are. He was running a big company that he was in charge of making sure it made a good profit and in order for company's like that to make the profits that give right wingers and especially Libertarians wet dreams, they outsource. Thats how it has been for a while now. That's what Corporations do. Why are they all of a sudden upset about outsourcing?

They're ticked off that "outsourcing" is considered a dirty word and think people who get upset when it comes up are ignoring the reality of the global economy.

78 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:18:58pm

re: #77 Targetpractice

They're ticked off that "outsourcing" is considered a dirty word and think people who get upset when it comes up are ignoring the reality of the global economy.

You mean those lower income folks who just don't "get it"?

79 sattv4u2  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:20:51pm

re: #75 Killgore Trout

Bomb threat forces closure of Detroit-Canada tunnel
The real shocker for me is there's a tunnel from Detroit to Canada.

It's only one way!!!
/

(I'll let anyones political bent decide which way!!)
/

80 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:21:09pm

re: #78 Expand Your Ground

You mean those lower income folks who just don't "get it"?

We're only supposed to realize the person going by has gotta be rich because he doesn't have shit all over him.

/

81 Ben G. Hazi  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:22:34pm

re: #73 iossarian

My own (fairly short) experience in corporate America is that there is still a spectrum of ethical behavior. I met several business leaders who I truly believe would work hard for their company and not try to gain personal advantage other than the "normal" compensation they would be awarded.

But unfortunately, those guys are in a losing battle with the Romneys of this world, because when you behave ethically in a system like the one we have today, you are playing against a stacked deck.

re: #68 Kragar

To some extent, this has always been true, but the difference is that in the past, the regulatory system had enough teeth to take out the worst offenders, and keep most people in line.

The rub is that the unethical fucks have thrown enough money into our political process over the years as to mostly neuter the regulations and regulatory agencies that kept them in check, especially in the financial sector.

The GOP (and the glibertarians) is in league with them and the Democrats don't have the collective backbone to push back; if that doesn't change, we are well and truly fucked.

82 wrenchwench  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:23:10pm

re: #76 Condescending Snotty Jaun Williams Elitist

I don't know why the right is so eager to distance Romney from this. They are the ones who are always going on and on about Free Markets and how pro corporation and business they are. He was running a big company that he was in charge of making sure it made a good profit and in order for company's like that to make the profits that give right wingers and especially Libertarians wet dreams, they outsource. Thats how it has been for a while now. That's what Corporations do. Why are they all of a sudden upset about outsourcing?

Because it sound great to investors and stockholders, but they let anybody vote these days.

They're working on that problem.

83 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:23:59pm

re: #81 SunshineSuperman

The rub is that the unethical fucks have thrown enough money into our political process debate over the years as to mostly convince people of the need to neuter the regulations and regulatory agencies that kept them in check, especially in the financial sector.

85 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:27:12pm

re: #84 Varek Raith

Limbaugh: "Express Reason" For NAACP's Existence Is To "Make Sure That Blacks Don't Vote Republican"

Limbaugh: If Romney Promised "Even More Blacks On Food Stamps," NAACP Would Have Said, "Yeah, Right On, Dude"

Yep, that's the only reason African Americans don't vote R. Yes sirree!

Come on, Rush, work the word "plantation" in there somewhere. You know you want to.

86 Ben G. Hazi  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:27:55pm

re: #84 Varek Raith

Limbaugh: "Express Reason" For NAACP's Existence Is To "Make Sure That Blacks Don't Vote Republican"

Limbaugh: If Romney Promised "Even More Blacks On Food Stamps," NAACP Would Have Said, "Yeah, Right On, Dude"

Yep, that's the only reason African Americans don't vote R. Yes sirree!

I don't wish harm on many people that don't deserve it (and the bar is pretty high, like Gaddafi and Hussein), but if Rush were to keel over tomorrow from a ruptured ego, I wouldn't shed a tear for him.

He and his ilk have done more to completely subvert the American body politic over the years than maybe anyone else in this country's history.

87 Varek Raith  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:28:24pm

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

88 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:33:17pm

TPM is going for the "fake but accurate" defense
Cutting Through The Bain Bamboozlement

For Romney to be truly off the hook politically for the stuff Bain was doing, he’d have to claim not lack of control, but lack of knowledge. And that’s just not going to wash with anyone. He could try going the “I didn’t have even the slightest idea what the company I technically still owned was doing” route, but he’d be marking himself as either dishonest or incompetent.

89 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:34:09pm

I guess the NAACP is secretly afraid that someday blacks will wake up and realize how much the GOP truly has their interests at heart and will abandon Obama, whom they voted for purely because of his race...

/

90 gwangung  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:34:27pm

re: #88 Killgore Trout

TPM is going for the "fake but accurate" defense
Cutting Through The Bain Bamboozlement

Still digging, I see.

Can I sell you a shovel?

91 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:34:34pm

re: #88 Killgore Trout

TPM is going for the "fake but accurate" defense
Cutting Through The Bain Bamboozlement

For it to be "fake but accurate," wouldn't it first have to be demonstrated that it was fake?

Dig a little deeper, you might just hit oil before this is all through.

92 sattv4u2  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:34:53pm

re: #88 Killgore Trout

TPM is going for the "fake but accurate" defense
Cutting Through The Bain Bamboozlement

When did TPM hire Dan Rather!?!
/

93 The Questionable Timing of a Flea  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:34:53pm

re: #88 Killgore Trout

TPM is going for the "fake but accurate" defense
Cutting Through The Bain Bamboozlement

I think you mean "I'm projecting the idea "fake but accurate" onto TPM's latest article about Bain."

94 steve_davis  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:35:19pm

re: #14 sattv4u2

Do you really think a Warren Buffet, in his role as Chairman, President & CEO of Berkshire Hathaway, reads all the "stuff" on every asset they aquire?

Yes, he assuredly does. That's why he's a billionare. And I assume Romney is a billionare for the same reason. He presumably pays attention to the fine details. Or, are his qualifications to be president his inattention to details?

95 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:35:51pm

It is not about smoking guns, it is not about culpable crimes. It is about a claim that a "successful" business career is a key qualification for the Presidency.

The entire episode is throwing a bad light on the nature of this "success".

96 gwangung  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:36:02pm

re: #91 Targetpractice

For it to be "fake but accurate," wouldn't it first have to be demonstrated that it was fake?

Dig a little deeper, you might just hit oil before this is all through.

I don't think KT quite gets the idea that there are several folks around here that ARE conversant on SEC documents, LLC structures and legal responsibilities as corporate management.

97 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:36:25pm

re: #88 Killgore Trout

TPM is going for the "fake but accurate" defense
Cutting Through The Bain Bamboozlement

I don't understand what makes this "fake but accurate."

Where's the "fake" part?

98 Ben G. Hazi  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:36:47pm

re: #96 gwangung

I don't think KT quite gets the idea that there are several folks around here that ARE conversant on SEC documents, LLC structures and legal responsibilities as corporate management.

And that they aren't going to buy what he is selling...

99 gwangung  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:37:56pm

re: #94 steve_davis

Yes, he assuredly does. That's why he's a billionare. And I assume Romney is a billionare for the same reason. He presumably pays attention to the fine details. Or, are his qualifications to be president his inattention to details?

OF COURSE BUFFET DOES.

He's SAID so, time and time again. He has very specific principles for acquisitions and he makes sure his people know them. And he reads what they report.

100 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:38:11pm

re: #96 gwangung

I don't think KT quite gets the idea that there are several folks around here that ARE conversant on SEC documents, LLC structures and legal responsibilities as corporate management.

I'd just concluded KT is as stubborn as the day is long and left it at that.

101 Prideful, Arrogant Marriage Equality Advocate  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:38:16pm

re: #84 Varek Raith

Republicans are convinced non whites either took all the jobs or don't have any.

102 sattv4u2  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:38:25pm

re: #94 steve_davis

Yes, he assuredly does

No, he assuredly doesn't

Do you have any idea how many companies (not to mention their offshoots) BH has their hands in ? For him to "read(s) all the "stuff" on every asset they acquire would take more waking hours than there are in a day

103 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:39:45pm

So he ran Bain before, but now he didn't?

He was for them, but is not against them?

I don't think it is going to work. The two words "Bain" & "Romney" are forever linked in the voters mind. I don't think he'll be able to change that before November.

104 sattv4u2  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:39:46pm

re: #99 gwangung

OF COURSE BUFFET DOES.

He's said so, time and time again. He has very specific principles for acquisitions and he makes sure his people know them. And he reads what they report.

DING DING DING

As stated, he most assuredly doesn't read all the "stuff" on every asset they acquire

105 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:41:04pm

the only fine details billionaires pay attention to are on financial reports and balance sheets.

106 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:41:24pm

re: #103 ggt

So he ran Bain before, but now he didn't?

He was for them, but is not against them?

I don't think it is going to work. The two words "Bain" & "Romney" are forever linked in the voters mind. I don't think he'll be able to change that before November.

Romney's trying to portray himself as a "successful business leader" and instead seems to be coming off as a non-entity, a man who never took charge until success was already assured, so that he could wash his hands of bad/controversial investments later down the road. Works great in the business world, not so much for the presidency.

107 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:41:35pm

re: #102 sattv4u2

Yes, he assuredly does

No, he assuredly doesn't

Do you have any idea how many companies (not to mention their offshoots) BH has their hands in ? For him to "read(s) all the "stuff" on every asset they acquire would take more waking hours than there are in a day

This is all a red herring debate. One takes responsibility for what one signs.

If you cannot find the time to read it, you hire someone to read it for you and explain what it is and whether or not you should sign it.

That is what a President does, and he'd better be damn good at picking the right people and making the right decisions based on their advice or we are all in trouble.

108 sattv4u2  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:41:45pm

Yup,,, I'm sure Ole Warren reads EVERY SINGLE thing re: BH's holdings

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

109 Ben G. Hazi  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:41:52pm

re: #98 SunshineSuperman

That's not to say that I am one of those knowledgeable people (as lawhawk and others are), but I'll trust what they say about this Romney/Bain business more than the nakedly partisan defense that KT and others are mounting.

110 Varek Raith  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:42:19pm

KT and Sat.
Lol, still spinning I see.

111 Prideful, Arrogant Marriage Equality Advocate  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:43:03pm

Well i think this is settled then.
Romney didn't do anything wrong, he just sucks at running a business!
Right?

112 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:43:31pm

voters vote on emotions, not facts.

I don't see Romney swaying emotions in the rank-n'-file independent voter.

Just my .02

113 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:43:40pm

re: #97 Charles Johnson

I don't understand what makes this "fake but accurate."

Where's the "fake" part?

Their big story on their "new" SEC filings didn't pan out. I thought we were more or less in agreement on that at this point. If the Fortune documents are genuine, which I suspect they are, then Mitt wasn't running Bain past '99. Claims that he was are untrue.

114 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:44:09pm

re: #111 Condescending Snotty Jaun Williams Elitist

Well i think this is settled then.
Romney didn't do anything wrong, he just sucks at running a business!
Right?

Nearly. He is good at running a business, but if that is how he would run the country, that sucks massively.

115 The Questionable Timing of a Flea  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:44:36pm

re: #102 sattv4u2

Yes, he assuredly does

No, he assuredly doesn't

Do you have any idea how many companies (not to mention their offshoots) BH has their hands in ? For him to "read(s) all the "stuff" on every asset they acquire would take more waking hours than there are in a day

Um...if you're the CEO either you read it for yourself or you delegate and give directives on how those with delegated decision-making powers are to conduct themselves. In the latter case, you then have the responsibility of creating oversight...again, either doing it yourself or creating a delegated structure.

Either way, YOU ARE THE DECIDER. There is no magic, "I didn't know but I totally signed off on the decision without checking so it isn't my fault but I'm still good at my job" opt out.

116 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:45:05pm

re: #110 Varek Raith

KT and Sat.
Lol, still spinning I see.

So, I take it that you still believe Mitt was running Bain past his alleged departure in '99?

117 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:46:04pm

re: #113 Killgore Trout

Their big story on their "new" SEC filings didn't pan out. I thought we were more or less in agreement on that at this point. If the Fortune documents are genuine, which I suspect they are, then Mitt wasn't running Bain past '99. Claims that he was are untrue.

If the Fortune docs are legit all they show is that the 100% shareholder and CEO wasn't listed as a "manager." Try again.

118 Obdicut  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:46:27pm

re: #113 Killgore Trout

He owned it, was CEO, and collected the salary for CEO.

Why do you keep focusing on whether he made the decisions? He either made them, or delegated them, but he's still responsible for them.

Why do you think otherwise?

119 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:46:40pm

Mitt was either IN CHARGE or he WASN'T.

Not taking responsibility isn't presidential.

120 The Questionable Timing of a Flea  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:46:52pm

re: #116 Killgore Trout

So, I take it that you still believe Mitt was running Bain past his alleged departure in '99?

Two titles and 100% of the stock shares suggests he merits a sizable portion of the shit sandwich.

121 sattv4u2  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:46:56pm

re: #110 Varek Raith

KT and Sat.
Lol, still spinning I see.

If by "SPINNING" you mean not jumping onto a bandwagon that has only three wheels and no,, well,, band, then yes,, yes, i'm spinning!!

122 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:46:59pm

re: #113 Killgore Trout

Their big story on their "new" SEC filings didn't pan out. I thought we were more or less in agreement on that at this point. If the Fortune documents are genuine, which I suspect they are, then Mitt wasn't running Bain past '99. Claims that he was are untrue.

Did you read what I wrote above? I do not agree that the Fortune documents prove Mitt had nothing to do with the management of Bain after 1999. They don't prove that at all.

123 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:47:00pm

re: #113 Killgore Trout

Their big story on their "new" SEC filings didn't pan out. I thought we were more or less in agreement on that at this point. If the Fortune documents are genuine, which I suspect they are, then Mitt wasn't running Bain past '99. Claims that he was are untrue.

If they're genuine, like I said above, it only proves that they were no longer using Romney's name to sell themselves to investors. It doesn't mean the man no longer had any control over Bain.

124 Varek Raith  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:47:50pm

re: #116 Killgore Trout

So, I take it that you still believe Mitt was running Bain past his alleged departure in '99?

I take you still believe the wingnuts and their swatting accusations?

125 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:47:51pm

re: #122 Charles Johnson

Did you read what I wrote above? I do not agree that the Fortune documents prove Mitt had nothing to do with the management of Bain after 1999. They don't prove that at all.

Ok, my mistake.

126 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:48:05pm

You can delegate authority but never responsibility. You will always be judged by the quality of people you choose to make decisions on your behalf and the decisions they made.

127 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:48:36pm

re: #121 sattv4u2

If by "SPINNING" you mean not jumping onto a bandwagon that has only three wheels and no,, well,, band, then yes,, yes, i'm spinning!!

Yeah, but I think you are making shitty slubby wool yarn and not fine silk thread.

128 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:48:37pm

re: #124 Varek Raith

I take you still believe the wingnuts and their swatting accusations?

I haven't seen any evidence that they swatted themselves.

129 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:48:47pm

re: #123 Targetpractice

If they're genuine, like I said above, it only proves that they were no longer using Romney's name to sell themselves to investors. It doesn't mean the man no longer had any control over Bain.

Believe me, any investors in Bain Capital knew very well that the CEO was Mitt Romney. This is why the Fortune documents don't prove a thing, unless it can be shown that similar pre-2000 documents DID include Romney.

130 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:49:29pm

re: #123 Targetpractice

If they're genuine, like I said above, it only proves that they were no longer using Romney's name to sell themselves to investors. It doesn't mean the man no longer had any control over Bain.

Ok, the verdict is in.

131 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:49:45pm

re: #126 goddamnedfrank

You can delegate authority but never responsibility. You will always be judged by the quality of people you choose to make decisions on your behalf and the decisions they made.

You also have to demonstrate that you actually delegated that power. If you declare that you're putting someone in charge in your stead, but still calling them up in the middle of the night and giving them orders, you've delegated nothing. You've just changed who's signing the important documents.

132 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:50:06pm

re: #125 Killgore Trout

Ok, my mistake.

Your reading comprehension really, really sucks. Just sayin', it's an established "thing" at this point. Maybe try slowing down, skimming less and instead going for depth of understanding.

133 Prideful, Arrogant Marriage Equality Advocate  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:50:12pm

I don't think this could be so. If Romney knew one of his Company's wanted to outsource to make a big profit, there is no way he would have gone for that. Big ole cuddly hippy that he is!

//

134 Varek Raith  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:50:24pm

re: #130 Killgore Trout

Ok, the verdict is in.

Oh please.
Nothing can convince of Romney and Bain.
Nothing.
You always find a way out.
Who sounds like a birther?

135 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:50:35pm

re: #128 Killgore Trout

I haven't seen any evidence that they swatted themselves.

Of course not, they think swatting oneself is a sin and only do it in the dark with rent boys.

136 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:51:31pm

re: #129 Charles Johnson

Believe me, any investors in Bain Capital knew very well that the CEO was Mitt Romney. This is why the Fortune documents don't prove a thing, unless it can be shown that similar pre-2000 documents DID include Romney.

I'm not sure but I think the Fortune documents are actually those shareholder booklets you get when you own a mutual fund or whatever. They're probably publicly available if someone wanted to search through them.

137 Varek Raith  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:51:35pm

re: #128 Killgore Trout

I haven't seen any evidence that they swatted themselves.

True, you just assumed it was a lefty.
You made a judgement before having all the facts.
Just like with a lot of OWS stuff.
It's an annoying pattern of yours.

138 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:51:56pm

re: #130 Killgore Trout

Ok, the verdict is in.

The verdict is that same as I've been saying since the first topic on this: The man had the titles, the man had the stock, and yet he expects us to take him at his word that he'd stopped running the place when he went to work on the Olympics. The fact-checkers take him at his word, and you take them at theirs.

139 gwangung  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:52:02pm

re: #104 sattv4u2

DING DING DING

As stated, he most assuredly doesn't read all the "stuff" on every asset they acquire

But, oh ye of little business knowledge, he reads all the financials. He reads the ledger books and balance sheets. He knows the company's major moves in the past, their weaknesses and what areas to emphasize in the future.

He's more hands on than most business CEOs, granted, but most business people know the general strategies and moves of the LLCs they're responsible for.

Really, you're embarassing yourself here.

140 sattv4u2  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:52:02pm

Bain Capital: Romney not involved after 1999

[Link: content.usatoday.com...]

Mitt Romney left Bain Capital in February 1999 to run the Olympics and has had absolutely no involvement with the management or investment activities of the firm or with any of its portfolio companies since the day of his departure.

Due to the sudden nature of Mr. Romney's departure, he remained the sole stockholder for a time while formal ownership was being documented and transferred to the group of partners who took over management of the firm in 1999. Accordingly, Mr. Romney was reported in various capacities on SEC filings during this period.

Damn those RWNJ's at USA Today

141 Gus  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:52:05pm

Reminds me of National Review's John O'Sullivan being on the board of Vdare for 3 years and then claiming that he resigned 3 years earlier while still being in the 990 Forms during those years.

142 The Questionable Timing of a Flea  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:52:11pm

re: #121 sattv4u2

If by "SPINNING" you mean not jumping onto a bandwagon that has only three wheels and no,, well,, band, then yes,, yes, i'm spinning!!

Yes.

You are Kevin Bacon in Footloose, not someone who's failing to understand basic corporate management structure and cocky about it.

143 Kragar  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:52:19pm

FRC calls for civil disobedience against Obamacare

The People are the highest authority under the U.S. Constitution. We have power and authority greater than all three branches of federal Government put together. The states, too, have authority and many are using their authority to reject Obamacare, in the face of the lost Supreme Court battle. And our appeal is to a higher authority, still! In God We Trust! Because we are One Nation Under God, whether by Congressional action, the vote of the people at the ballot box, even civil disobedience, if necessary, this law will ultimately be overturned.

144 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:52:53pm

The documents given to Fortune are apparently promotional materials for a private equity fund, by the way. These aren't official filings or any kind of legal document, as far as I can tell from the limited description. They're the kind of thing you get in a package when you see an investment counselor.

145 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:53:04pm

He is hoping to get brownie emotion points for the Olympics --except it isn't known as a well oiled financial machine either . . . .

146 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:53:07pm

re: #140 sattv4u2

Bain Capital: Romney not involved after 1999

[Link: content.usatoday.com...]

Mitt Romney left Bain Capital in February 1999 to run the Olympics and has had absolutely no involvement with the management or investment activities of the firm or with any of its portfolio companies since the day of his departure.

Due to the sudden nature of Mr. Romney's departure, he remained the sole stockholder for a time while formal ownership was being documented and transferred to the group of partners who took over management of the firm in 1999. Accordingly, Mr. Romney was reported in various capacities on SEC filings during this period.

Damn those RWNJ's at USA Today

Lies!

147 Obdicut  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:53:17pm

re: #126 goddamnedfrank

You can delegate authority but never responsibility. You will always be judged by the quality of people you choose to make decisions on your behalf and the decisions they made.

And as I said, in a way this is drawing to light one of the biggest problems in the business culture and community today, the divorcing of responsibility from ownership and profit.

If you own something, you are responsible for it. This is why I only invest a very few stocks, because if I am part owner of something, I really am ethically responsible for it.

As people keep repeating, it really doesn't matter if Romney was 'running' Bain or simply profiting from Bain and owning it. The shareholders of a corporation are, finally, the people responsible for it.

148 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:53:59pm

re: #136 Killgore Trout

I'm not sure but I think the Fortune documents are actually those shareholder booklets you get when you own a mutual fund or whatever. They're probably publicly available if someone wanted to search through them.

Quote:

Bain Capital began circulating offering documents for its seventh private equity fund in June 2000.

Promotional material.

149 Varek Raith  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:54:11pm

re: #146 Killgore Trout

See?
You ignore valid points brought up by posters because it doesn't fit your narrative.

150 sattv4u2  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:54:13pm

re: #139 gwangung

re: #146 Killgore Trout

Lies!

Actually

Thats where I went. NOT to feed my dogs, but to hack into and plant that in USA today!!
I's so twicksey!!

151 Prideful, Arrogant Marriage Equality Advocate  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:54:17pm

re: #143 Kragar

Yes! Let's use our own government against ourselves!

152 Gus  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:54:40pm

re: #140 sattv4u2

Bain Capital: Romney not involved after 1999

[Link: content.usatoday.com...]

Mitt Romney left Bain Capital in February 1999 to run the Olympics and has had absolutely no involvement with the management or investment activities of the firm or with any of its portfolio companies since the day of his departure.

Due to the sudden nature of Mr. Romney's departure, he remained the sole stockholder for a time while formal ownership was being documented and transferred to the group of partners who took over management of the firm in 1999. Accordingly, Mr. Romney was reported in various capacities on SEC filings during this period.

Damn those RWNJ's at USA Today

That's a statement from Bain.

153 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:54:42pm

re: #144 Charles Johnson

The documents given to Fortune are apparently promotional materials for a private equity fund, by the way. These aren't official filings or any kind of legal document, as far as I can tell from the limited description. They're the kind of thing you get in a package when you see an investment counselor.

I find myself reminded of not only all the ruckus about Ron Paul and newsletters, but also the whole kerfuffle over the Obama/Kenya pamphlet business. I remember quite distinctly the wingnut argument that went "He signed off on it, so he had to know there was lies in it!"

154 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:55:31pm

re: #140 sattv4u2

Bain Capital: Romney not involved after 1999

[Link: content.usatoday.com...]

Mitt Romney left Bain Capital in February 1999 to run the Olympics and has had absolutely no involvement with the management or investment activities of the firm or with any of its portfolio companies since the day of his departure.

Due to the sudden nature of Mr. Romney's departure, he remained the sole stockholder for a time while formal ownership was being documented and transferred to the group of partners who took over management of the firm in 1999. Accordingly, Mr. Romney was reported in various capacities on SEC filings during this period.

Damn those RWNJ's at USA Today

Yes, because Bain has absolutely no reason to lie, right? *rolls eyes*

155 Varek Raith  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:55:35pm

So, Sat and KT have no trouble taking Romney and Bain at their words while ignoring everything that refutes them.
Got it.

156 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:56:00pm

re: #150 sattv4u2

re: #146 Killgore Trout

Actually

Thats where I went. NOT to feed my dogs, but to hack into and plant that in USA today!!
I's so twicksey!!

I think Dave Weigel is on to something here...

157 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:56:27pm

re: #155 Varek Raith

So, Sat and KT have no trouble taking Romney and Bain at their words while ignoring everything that refutes them.
Got it.

No, they're taking the "non-partisan" fact-checkers at their word, who are in turn taking Romney and Bain at their word. It's intellectual laziness by any other name.

158 sattv4u2  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:56:42pm

re: #155 Varek Raith

So, Sat and KT have no trouble taking Romney and Bain at their words while ignoring everything that refutes them.
Got it.

Que "everything"?

A left wing publication that says otherwise, or the multiple times debunked outsourcing stories?

159 BongCrodny  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:56:49pm

If Bain's giving Fortune documents supporting Romney, I'd call that a press release, not a leak.

160 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:57:16pm

So, I think I get it now.

He was in charge, until he wasn't, then he was again. Any and all bad stuff happened when he wasn't, then he came back.

Like Richard the Lionhearted?

161 Prideful, Arrogant Marriage Equality Advocate  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:57:40pm

re: #158 sattv4u2

Which left wing publication?

162 Varek Raith  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:57:44pm

re: #138 Targetpractice

The verdict is that same as I've been saying since the first topic on this: The man had the titles, the man had the stock, and yet he expects us to take him at his word that he'd stopped running the place when he went to work on the Olympics. The fact-checkers take him at his word, and you take them at theirs.

Bolded for emphasis.

163 Ben G. Hazi  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:58:34pm

re: #118 Obdicut

He owned it, was CEO, and collected the salary for CEO.

Why do you keep focusing on whether he made the decisions? He either made them, or delegated them, but he's still responsible for them.

Why do you think otherwise?

He wants to say that His Mittness could have his cake and eat it too in regards to his roles at Bain after 1999.

I don't think so...

164 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:58:46pm

If I were in the Romney camp and trying to spin this, I would make sure that the debate peters off into matters of whether or not Mitt was involved in day-to-day operations (which cannot be proven wither way based on available documents)

The point is to keep the discussion away from outsourcing, which has gained a bad name in recent years, despite it being accepted business practice.

And in general, i would try to steer the discussino back to blaming the Obama administeration for the state of the economy.

165 Varek Raith  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:59:34pm

re: #158 sattv4u2

Que "everything"?

A left wing publication that says otherwise, or the multiple times debunked outsourcing stories?

USA today posted a statement from Bain.
;)

166 sattv4u2  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:59:48pm

re: #139 gwangung

Here's the list again

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

You really beleive that Buffett reads all the financials. He reads the ledger books and balance sheets.??

Again, look at the list. NOT ENOUGH TIME IN A DAY

167 gwangung  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:00:55pm

re: #140 sattv4u2

Bain Capital: Romney not involved after 1999

[Link: content.usatoday.com...]

Mitt Romney left Bain Capital in February 1999 to run the Olympics and has had absolutely no involvement with the management or investment activities of the firm or with any of its portfolio companies since the day of his departure.

Due to the sudden nature of Mr. Romney's departure, he remained the sole stockholder for a time while formal ownership was being documented and transferred to the group of partners who took over management of the firm in 1999. Accordingly, Mr. Romney was reported in various capacities on SEC filings during this period.

Damn those RWNJ's at USA Today

If that was the case, Bain was extremely sloppy in not filing that with the SEC, as those are relevant facts affecting management that investors would want to know.

And, of course, Romney would still be legally and financially responsible for acts of his company during those supposed interregnum years.

168 Varek Raith  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:01:02pm

Funny, I thought personal responsibility was supposed to be a conservative trait...

169 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:01:14pm

Why isn't Fortune's Dan Primack making images of these promotional materials available? Seems like it would be an easy thing, so I'm left wondering if we're being fed a half truth. It seems obvious that a CEO and 100% shareholder wouldn't be listed as a "manager," because managers manage on behalf of owners.

170 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:01:42pm

re: #166 sattv4u2

Here's the list again

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

You really beleive that Buffett reads all the financials. He reads the ledger books and balance sheets.??

Again, look at the list. NOT ENOUGH TIME IN A DAY

don't you get it, these people are higher-order humans --The Elites. They have these powers and are all uber speed readers. They can make the right decisions for us because we are ants to their greatness.

/

171 darthstar  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:01:50pm

re: #168 Varek Raith

Funny, I thought personal responsibility was supposed to be a conservative trait...

Responsibility, yes. Accountability, never.

172 sattv4u2  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:02:04pm

re: #161 Condescending Snotty Jaun Williams Elitist

Which left wing publication?

NYT

[Link: thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com...]

173 Varek Raith  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:02:18pm

I'll trust SEC filings over a political campaign any day of the week.

174 wrenchwench  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:02:31pm

re: #161 Condescending Snotty Jaun Williams Elitist

Which left wing publication?

LGF.

175 sattv4u2  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:02:40pm

re: #170 ggt

don't you get it, these people are higher-order humans --The Elites. They have these powers and are all uber speed readers. They can make the right decisions for us because we are ants to their greatness.

/

Evelyn Wood would be proud

176 wrenchwench  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:03:41pm

re: #169 goddamnedfrank

Why isn't Fortune's Dan Primack making images of these promotional materials available? Seems like it would be an easy thing, so I'm left wondering if we're being fed a half truth. It seems obvious that a CEO and 100% shareholder wouldn't be listed as a "manager," because managers manage on behalf of owners.

We should check his political contributions.

/semi

177 Prideful, Arrogant Marriage Equality Advocate  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:04:03pm

re: #172 sattv4u2

I didn't know the NYT was a left wing paper. I don't know too much about it.

178 gwangung  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:04:12pm

re: #166 sattv4u2

He is not going over them in as much detail as the accountants for each company of course, and he's more concerned about major strategy changes.

And at the end of the day, he's responsible for it.

179 sattv4u2  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:04:14pm

re: #170 ggt

re: #175 sattv4u2

Evelyn Wood would be proud

Oh ,,and btw ,, I read your #170 in less than a nanosecond

180 BongCrodny  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:04:15pm

re: #173 Varek Raith

I'll trust SEC filings over a political campaign any day of the week.

...and I'd trust the Boston Globe, New York Times and Mother Jones over USA Today.

181 sattv4u2  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:04:35pm

re: #178 gwangung

He is not going over them in as much detail as the accountants for each company of course, and he's more concerned about major strategy changes.

And at the end of the day, he's responsible for it.

But,,BUT , you said he reads them all!!

182 Varek Raith  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:05:48pm

So Romney had no clue what was going on when he was CEO?
Sounds like a great person to be PotUS.

183 Kragar  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:06:37pm

Rush Limbaugh: NAACP Booed Romney Because He Is White

184 Ben G. Hazi  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:07:10pm

re: #166 sattv4u2

Here's the list again

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

You really beleive that Buffett reads all the financials. He reads the ledger books and balance sheets.??

Again, look at the list. NOT ENOUGH TIME IN A DAY

One thing that either escapes your grasp or that you're purposely ignoring is CEOs and other corporate officers, like captains of ships, are ultimately responsible for the conduct of the people under them.

They can't just take the credit while disavowing problems while they're in the center seat...

185 Gus  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:07:16pm

re: #183 Kragar

Rush Limbaugh: NAACP Booed Romney Because He Is White

Did they boo Biden?

186 gwangung  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:07:33pm

re: #181 sattv4u2

I said the financials and the balance sheets. Yes, there is time in the day to do that, particularly if he's deciding to increase his stake or decrease it (and he does make the final decision on a regular basis).

187 sattv4u2  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:07:42pm

re: #178 gwangung

re: #181 sattv4u2

But,,BUT , you said he reads them all!!

47 companies most of which BH owns 100% of, the rest at least 75% of And thats not even counting the dozens and dozens of subsidiaries and common stock holdings

Again,, the list

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

188 Gus  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:08:10pm

re: #171 darthstar

Responsibility, yes. Accountability, never.

IOKIYARCEO

189 Kragar  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:08:22pm

re: #182 Varek Raith

So Romney had no clue what was going on when he was CEO?
Sounds like a great person to be PotUS.

"President Romney has no idea why US Military invaded Iran 'I just had my secretary sign some papers'"

190 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:08:30pm

re: #185 Gus

Did they boo Biden?

boo Biden --teehee

Bibbity Bobbity Biden
BoBidenbobanna

191 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:08:34pm

re: #39 Obdicut

You seem to be consistently missing the point.

Romney was CEO, and sole shareholder during the years in question. If he delegated authority, he delegated it. It is his responsibility. Delegation doesn't absolve one of responsibility. At best, you can claim the person you delegated it to acted contrary to your instructions when you delegated it.

Whether he made the actual decisions to outsource is completely immaterial; he was CEO, as declared to the SEC, during the times in question. If he didn't want that responsibility, he should have resigned as CEO at that point. The best case scenario is he held on to the title, and the salary, while doing no work so that he could structure his exit in a way that would benefit him.

You seem to be getting lost in the details and ignoring that there is no possible way that this story flows that doesn't show huge, obvious, glaring problems in Romney as a candidate. It's not about Romney cackling as he creates a plan to outsource jobs, it's about Romney's company, which he owned and was CEO of, doing this.

Someone who can't take responsibility for what a company did that they owned and CEO of-- it reminds me most of Ron Paul and his newsletters.

Because this deserves reposting.

192 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:08:43pm

re: #189 Kragar

"President Romney has no idea why US Military invaded Iran 'I just had my secretary sign some papers'"

Worked for the last Republican.

193 Varek Raith  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:08:52pm

re: #189 Kragar

"President Romney has no idea why US Military invaded Iran 'I just had my secretary sign some papers'"

Man, the Romney spin on this is hilarious.

194 Kragar  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:09:33pm

re: #185 Gus

Did they boo Biden?

NAACP Crowd Cheers For Biden And ‘Obamacare’

195 BongCrodny  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:09:37pm

re: #190 ggt

boo Biden --teehee

Bibbity Bobbity Biden
BoBidenbobanna

I'm Biden' my tongue here.

196 Varek Raith  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:09:55pm

Either he knew what was going on at Bain or he didn't.
Can't have it both ways.

197 sattv4u2  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:10:25pm

re: #186 gwangung

I said the financials and the balance sheets. Yes, there is time in the day to do that, particularly if he's deciding to increase his stake or decrease it (and he does make the final decision on a regular basis).

No. To the question of (#14) Do you really think a Warren Buffet, in his role as Chairman, President & CEO of Berkshire Hathaway, reads all the "stuff" on every asset they aquire?

you stated
"OF COURSE BUFFET DOES.

He's SAID so, time and time again"

(#99)

198 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:10:54pm

re: #196 Varek Raith

Either he knew what was going on at Bain or he didn't.
Can't have it both ways.

Either way, he was the CEO and responsible.

199 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:11:37pm

Just checking a little something.

if (rating == 0) {

	if ($(ipl).hasClass('igray')) {

		$(ipl).removeClass('igray');

		$(imi).removeClass('ibusy').html(txt);

	} else {

		$(imi).removeClass('ibusy').addClass('igray').html(txt);

	}

} else {

	if ($(imi).hasClass('igray')) {

		$(imi).removeClass('igray');

		$(ipl).removeClass('ibusy').html(txt);

	} else {

		$(ipl).removeClass('ibusy').addClass('igray').html(txt);

	}

}
200 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:12:06pm

So that's how Romney got his IRA so large:

But the way described in the Vanity Fair article and in the WSJ article doesn’t appear to be legal in Romney’s instance, even though this tactic would be legal in other instances—i.e., when there is some actual tangible difference between the risk and value of the two classes of stocks, and when the stock placed in the IRA is given a legitimate, rather than fraudulently low, value.

The relevant paragraphs of the WSJ article read:
The tax-deferral opportunity stemmed from the way Bain often chose to structure the shares of companies after taking them over.

Even if the companies had only one share class, Bain frequently gave them two classes, usually called Class L and Class A, according to former employees, Bain internal documents and securities filings. Because Bain controlled the companies, it had flexibility in assigning values to the classes.

...

Can it really be that all that was legally necessary was to simply separate objectively identically-valuable stocks from a single company into two classes of stocks whose only difference is the arbitrary value that the company assigns the stocks, rather than the actual tangible value of the stocks?

201 Gus  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:12:30pm

re: #196 Varek Raith

Either he knew what was going on at Bain or he didn't.
Can't have it both ways.

Apparently he didn't know what was going on at Bain but he can still claim he created billions and billions of jobs. The clueless captain of industry. So when the news about Bain is negative he responds by saying "wasn't me." When it's positive, then he takes credit. Nice set-up he has there. If corporations are people then Bain is a person with multiple personalities.

202 The Questionable Timing of a Flea  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:13:13pm

Maine GOP Chair Sees Double Standard In Outrage At Paul LePage

Tensions are running high in Maine, where Republican Gov. Paul LePage’s
string of comments comparing the IRS to the Gestapo, has Democrats openly questioning his fitness to hold office, and Republicans charging that anyone offended by the remarks is a hypocrite.

“What I think the governor is saying — he’s not a politician, everybody knows he’s not a politician, he’s a regular person, he’s a successful businessman and he isn’t politically correct,” Charlie Webster, chairman of the Maine GOP, told TPM Thursday. “His point, I’m sure, is that we’ve got to get government under control. And we can’t have government dominating our lives at every moment.”

Webster said that he had not seen LePage’s most recent comments, in which the governor said the IRS will behave like the Gestapo (including killing people) under the health care reform law. But “I assume that what he was talking about was rationing,” Webster said. “That would be the only way you could tie those two together.”

203 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:14:48pm

bbl

204 sattv4u2  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:17:07pm

Okay

Who pissed off the SUN?

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

Giant sunspot shoots out intense, X-class solar flare

Varek,, what did you do!?!?!

205 sattv4u2  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:18:40pm

re: #204 sattv4u2

Okay

Who pissed off the SUN?

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

Giant sunspot shoots out intense, X-class solar flare

Varek,, what did you do!?!?!

forecasters are now anticipating the passage of the [coronal mass ejection] around 1:00 a.m. EDT, Saturday, July 14. G1 (minor) Geomagnetic Storm activity is expected to then ensue through the rest of the day.

Oh,, goody

Guess whose at work at 1:00 a.m. EDT?

Gonna be a busy morning!!

{sigh}

206 Varek Raith  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:21:23pm

re: #204 sattv4u2

Okay

Who pissed off the SUN

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

Giant sunspot shoots out intense, X-class solar flare

Varek,, what did you do!?!?!

I ain't done nothing!

207 gwangung  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:22:06pm

re: #197 sattv4u2

No. To the question of (#14) Do you really think a Warren Buffet, in his role as Chairman, President & CEO of Berkshire Hathaway, reads all the "stuff" on every asset they aquire?

you stated
"OF COURSE BUFFET DOES.

He's SAID so, time and time again"

(#99)

I was thinking of financials, balance sheets, major initiatives planned. If you mean something more detailed, no. There's some confusion here (which may have been on my part) But Buffet is most certainly known as a hands on investor who studies his acquisitions and holdings. He'll speak knowledgeably about, as he does every year to his stockholders.

Similarly, major initiatives taken by Bain would most certainly be reviewed by top management, and it'd be derelict for even a figurehead CEO not to know of them.

There's some unconfirmed quotes from Romney in 1999 that he would be part time but be still there as an advisor, but I can't pin that down. That can be spun favorably, but only with some effort.

208 Gus  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:22:48pm
209 sattv4u2  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:25:00pm

re: #206 Varek Raith

I ain't done nothing!

well then, thats the problem!!

FIX IT!!

210 dragonath  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:25:20pm

Despite this debate going on here, Republicans:

...are pushing religious curriculum in schools
...have a presidential candidate willing to privatize the VA
...denies global warming
...are avowedly anti-choice
...are against marraige equality

But we can only trust the "right" sources. Hoh.

211 Gus  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:25:22pm
212 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:25:45pm

re: #207 gwangung

I was thinking of financials, balance sheets, major initiatives planned. If you mean something more detailed, no.

I'm guessing Buffet knows if a company he's buying disposes of aborted fetuses or not. Just seems like the kind of due diligence a high powered bridge player would perform.

213 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:25:51pm

Try that one more time...

if (rating == 0) {

	if ($(ipl).hasClass('igray')) {

		$(ipl).removeClass('igray');

		$(imi).removeClass('ibusy').html(txt);

	} else {

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	}

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		$(ipl).removeClass('ibusy').html(txt);

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}
214 sattv4u2  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:26:31pm

re: #213 Charles Johnson

Try that one more time...

if (rating == 0) { if ($(ipl).hasClass('igray')) { $(ipl).removeClass('igray'); $(imi).removeClass('ibusy').html(txt); } else { $(imi).removeClass('ibusy').addClass('igray').html(txt); }} else { if ($(imi).hasClass('igray')) { $(imi).removeClass('igray'); $(ipl).removeClass('ibusy').html(txt); } else { $(ipl).removeClass('ibusy').addClass('igray').html(txt); }}

I didn't feel a thing

(yet)
//

215 Four More Tears  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:27:55pm

When did Warren Buffet start running for President?

216 Ben G. Hazi  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:29:12pm

re: #215 It's a cookbook!

When did Warren Buffet start running for President?

The same time that George Soros, Jeremiah Wright, and Bill Ayers did...

///

217 sattv4u2  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:30:13pm

re: #215 It's a cookbook!

When did Warren Buffet start running for THE President?

Sometime after his first billion or so, I would imagine

218 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:30:14pm

Uno mas...

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	if ($(imi).hasClass('igray')) {

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		$(ipl).removeClass('ibusy').addClass('igray').html(txt);

	}

}
219 sattv4u2  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:30:50pm

re: #218 Charles Johnson

Uno mas...

if (rating == 0) { if ($(ipl).hasClass('igray')) { $(ipl).removeClass('igray'); $(imi).removeClass('ibusy').html(txt); } else { $(imi).removeClass('ibusy').addClass('igray').html(txt); }} else { if ($(imi).hasClass('igray')) { $(imi).removeClass('igray'); $(ipl).removeClass('ibusy').html(txt); } else { $(ipl).removeClass('ibusy').addClass('igray').html(txt); }}

This will be strike three, ya know

NTTAWWT, Boss!!
/

220 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:31:18pm

Reprise...

if (rating == 0) {

	if ($(ipl).hasClass('igray')) {

		$(ipl).removeClass('igray');

		$(imi).removeClass('ibusy').html(txt);

	} else {

		$(imi).removeClass('ibusy').addClass('igray').html(txt);

	}

} else {

	if ($(imi).hasClass('igray')) {

		$(imi).removeClass('igray');

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		$(ipl).removeClass('ibusy').addClass('igray').html(txt);

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}
221 Four More Tears  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:31:40pm

re: #217 sattv4u2

Sometime after his first billion or so, I would imagine

Uh huh. How much is he pumping into super-pacs?

222 Varek Raith  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:31:56pm

Just so you all know, that code steals souls.
Just throwing that out there.

223 Gus  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:32:33pm
224 sattv4u2  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:32:33pm

re: #222 Varek Raith

Just so you all know, that code steals souls.
Just throwing that out there.

too late

I already sold mine

It was Tijuana ,, I was young , the tequila was free

225 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:32:43pm

I really thought that I had done great by pumping my IRA up to where it is, I took advantage of every loophole suggested by people more knowledgeable than me and was extremely happy with my potential tax savings. :D

Then came Romney with his $100,000,000 plus overseas invested IRA plan, now I just feel...poor. :(

226 Gus  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:33:57pm

Karl Rove's arms must be very tired by now.

227 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:34:45pm

re: #223 Gus

[Embedded content]

"We've narrowed our VP choices...not that we're gonna tell you who...just that we've narrowed them."

228 Gus  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:34:54pm
229 sattv4u2  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:36:10pm

re: #228 Gus

[Embedded content]

Yup

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

230 sattv4u2  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:37:18pm

re: #229 sattv4u2

Yup

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

A D.C. police officer who worked as a motorcycle escort for White House officials and other dignitaries was moved to administrative duty Wednesday after he allegedly was overheard making threatening comments toward Michelle Obama, according to several police officials.

umm,,, HUH!?!?

How about moved to the Secret Services interrogation room!?!?!

231 Ben G. Hazi  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:39:09pm

re: #201 Gus

Apparently he didn't know what was going on at Bain but he can still claim he created billions and billions of jobs. The clueless captain of industry. So when the news about Bain is negative he responds by saying "wasn't me." When it's positive, then he takes credit. Nice set-up he has there. If corporations are people then Bain is a person with multiple personalities.

His Mittness would have given "Sybil" a run for her money; that is, if her "multiple personalites" hadn't since been put under a shadow of fraud, but then, that could also apply to Rmoney as well, couldn't it?

232 Mattand  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:39:24pm

re: #228 Gus

Report: D.C. Cop showed fellow officers gun he said he would use to kill @MichelleObama: wapo.st/MkL1gt

Greaaaat. And I'm sure that the First Couple is black has nothing to do with this.

233 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:42:09pm

re: #232 Mattand

Greaaat. And I'm sure that the First Couple is black has nothing to do with this.

Too soon. The DC force is pretty well integrated.

234 Ben G. Hazi  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:42:40pm

re: #232 Mattand

Greaaat. And I'm sure that the First Couple is black has nothing to do with this.

Maybe, maybe not...time for the 48-Hour Rule.

Sometimes, a nutjob may just be a nutjob...

235 Renaissance_Man  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:43:50pm

re: #210 Be Zorch, Daddio

Despite this debate going on here, Republicans:

...are pushing religious curriculum in schools
...have a presidential candidate willing to privatize the VA
...denies global warming
...are avowedly anti-choice
...are against marraige equality

But we can only trust the "right" sources. Hoh.

Precisely. This is why I think that worrying about exact dates when Romney was CEO or not CEO or whatever is a sideshow. There is no more important reason to vote against him than the openly stated platform of his party.

The GOP has basically outright stated 'we want to hurt the vast majority of Americans to enrich a very few. Vote for us because you hate Democrats, gays, liberals and brown people.'

Sadly, this may well be a victorious course of action.

236 sattv4u2  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:43:53pm

re: #232 Mattand

Greaaat. And I'm sure that the First Couple is black has nothing to do with this.

ummm,, how do you know the officer isn't black?

The department currently has one of the highest percentages of African American officers amongst United States Police Departments, at 66%

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

237 Mattand  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:44:27pm

re: #233 Decatur Deb

Too soon. The DC force is pretty well integrated.

It's possible this guy was politically motivated, but I stand by my comment. I've unfortunately met enough racist LEOs to think otherwise.

238 gwangung  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:44:55pm

re: #233 Decatur Deb

Too soon. The DC force is pretty well integrated.

Well, cop has gotta be investigated. Even, as I suspect, it's just a big mouth running on too long, it's gotta be investigated like any other threat, ESPECIALLY since it's a cop.

239 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:45:45pm

I just gotta...

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		$(ipl).removeClass('igray');

		$(imi).removeClass('ibusy').html(txt);

	} else {

		$(imi).removeClass('ibusy').addClass('igray').html(txt);

	}

} else {

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		$(ipl).removeClass('ibusy').html(txt);

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		$(ipl).removeClass('ibusy').addClass('igray').html(txt);

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}
240 Gus  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:46:09pm

re: #236 sattv4u2

ummm,, how do you know the officer isn't black?

The department currently has one of the highest percentages of African American officers amongst United States Police Departments, at 66%

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Yep. No one knows what happened yet so people should just wait.

241 sattv4u2  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:48:34pm

re: #240 Gus

Yep. No one knows what happened yet so people should just wait.

Exactly

maybe he's a white racist psycho
maybe he's a black cop who said something he thought was in jest and was overheard by someone who has a grudge against him
maybe it's anywhere in between those two

242 lawhawk  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:49:41pm

Red light camera in NJ catches spectacular accident when one person ran red light at high speed:

Youtube Video

Everyone was able to walk away with minor injuries thankfully.

243 Kragar  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:49:53pm

re: #241 sattv4u2

Exactly

maybe he's a white racist psycho
maybe he's a black cop who said something he thought was in jest and was overheard by someone who has a grudge against him
maybe it's anywhere in between those two

Possessed by demons is still in play...
/

244 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:49:56pm

re: #239 Charles Johnson

I just gotta...

if (rating == 0) { if ($(ipl).hasClass('igray')) { $(ipl).removeClass('igray'); $(imi).removeClass('ibusy').html(txt); } else { $(imi).removeClass('ibusy').addClass('igray').html(txt); }} else { if ($(imi).hasClass('igray')) { $(imi).removeClass('igray'); $(ipl).removeClass('ibusy').html(txt); } else { $(ipl).removeClass('ibusy').addClass('igray').html(txt); }}

Because, I know that your Coding Fu makes this site better for all of us!

245 sattv4u2  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:50:20pm

re: #241 sattv4u2

Exactly

maybe he's a white racist psycho
maybe he's a black cop who said something he thought was in jest and was overheard by someone who has a grudge against him
maybe it's anywhere in between those two

but DEFINATELY should be investigated by the Secret Service

246 Gus  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:52:03pm

Ugh. Almost 5 PM. BBL

247 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:53:53pm

re: #244 Dancing along the light of day

That's actually part of the code that handles the ding buttons.

248 jaunte  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:55:40pm

Who doesn't love being stuck on hold at 5:53 listening to conference call stock music and camping out in a virtual conference room, while waiting for the client CEO to describe how the rushed-through-to-make-a-tight-deadline designs were not what he had in mind.

249 sattv4u2  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:57:36pm

re: #246 Gus

Ugh. Almost 5 PM. BBL

DRINK!!

250 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:59:13pm

re: #247 Charles Johnson

That's actually part of the code that handles the ding buttons.

OK, so it's even cuter, than I thought it was before!

251 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 4:10:40pm

Still testing...

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		$(ipl).removeClass('igray');

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		$(imi).removeClass('ibusy').addClass('igray').html(txt);

	}

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		$(imi).removeClass('igray');

		$(ipl).removeClass('ibusy').html(txt);

	} else {

		$(ipl).removeClass('ibusy').addClass('igray').html(txt);

	}

}
252 Big Joe Ghazi  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 4:15:26pm

Boston Globe refuses to correct Bain story.

The Romney campaign demanded that the Globe "correct" their story, which Romney called "inaccurate." The problem is that, as the Globe notes in their subsequent letter to the Romney campaign, the Globe can't correct a story that quotes federal and state documents that Romney wrote himself.

Only in Romney-land does someone retire and then keep his job for a few more years. If Romney is now claiming that he took a leave of absence from Bain, then why did he tell the FEC that he "retired"? And why did he file state documents showing he was still earning income if he supposedly no longer worked there?

Then there's today's story from Buzzfeed in which Mitt Romney said during a recent GOP primary debate that he "worked" at Bain - you know, that place he "retired" from - until 2002.

253 palomino  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 4:19:27pm

re: #104 sattv4u2

DING DING DING

As stated, he most assuredly doesn't read all the "stuff" on every asset they acquire

So, in your view, this somehow absolves business leaders like Buffet and Romney from responsibility for any potential wrongdoing? Fortunately our legal system sees things differently.

254 aagcobb  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 4:19:55pm

re: #252 Big Joe

Boston Globe refuses to correct Bain story.

Ok, you know Romney isn't responsible for anything he said in the past./

255 wrenchwench  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 4:20:30pm

re: #251 Charles Johnson

Still testing...

if (rating == 0) { if ($(ipl).hasClass('igray')) { $(ipl).removeClass('igray'); $(imi).removeClass('ibusy').html(txt); } else { $(imi).removeClass('ibusy').addClass('igray').html(txt); }} else { if ($(imi).hasClass('igray')) { $(imi).removeClass('igray'); $(ipl).removeClass('ibusy').html(txt); } else { $(ipl).removeClass('ibusy').addClass('igray').html(txt); }}

}ihas gray }ihas busy }ihas class

I must be dingy.

256 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 4:21:15pm

re: #252 Big Joe

Boston Globe refuses to correct Bain story.

Heh. No surprise there.

257 palomino  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 4:24:50pm

re: #256 Killgore Trout

Heh. No surprise there.

Why is it no surprise?

And what should they correct?

258 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 4:25:42pm

re: #255 wrenchwench

LOL!
Better dingy than dingbatty!

259 Ben G. Hazi  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 4:27:18pm

re: #256 Killgore Trout

Heh. No surprise there.

Damn the librul lamestream media and their verifiable facts...

///

260 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 4:28:09pm

re: #257 palomino

Why is it no surprise?

And what should they correct?

They knew the story was misleading when they wrote it and they're getting a lot of attention. I assume that was the whole purpose.

261 sattv4u2  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 4:28:27pm

re: #253 palomino

So, in your view, this somehow absolves business leaders like Buffet and Romney from responsibility for any potential wrongdoing? Fortunately our legal system sees things differently.

I said that ,, where??

262 palomino  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 4:32:57pm

re: #261 sattv4u2

I said that ,, where??

You suggested that Buffet and Romney shouldn't be held responsible for everything they sign because lawyers told them to and because it's impossible for them to read everything. If that's not what you intended to say, then what did you intend to say?

263 palomino  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 4:33:36pm

re: #260 Killgore Trout

They knew the story was misleading when they wrote it and they're getting a lot of attention. I assume that was the whole purpose.

Again, I'll ask the same question: what was false, and what should be corrected?

264 sattv4u2  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 4:34:01pm

re: #258 Dancing along the light of day

LOL!
Better dingy than dingbatty!

Youtube Video
265 Big Joe Ghazi  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 4:34:10pm

Apparantly it's misleading to quote federal and state documents that Romney wrote himself.

266 The Questionable Timing of a Flea  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 4:34:21pm

re: #260 Killgore Trout

They knew the story was misleading when they wrote it and they're getting a lot of attention. I assume that was the whole purpose.

Assume in one hand and crap in the other and the products will be very similar.

267 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 4:34:55pm

re: #256 Killgore Trout

Heh. No surprise there.

On one hand you have documents signed under oath, that have actually been made available for you to view. On the other you have a vague account about a marketing brochure that reportedly doesn't list Romney as a "manager" of a company nobody disputes he owned 100% of the stock in.

Do you really believe that as CEO, Chairman of the Board, President and sole stockholder he didn't have any responsibility for the decisions made by his underlings or the actions taken by his company?

268 sattv4u2  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 4:35:58pm

re: #262 palomino

You suggested that Buffet and Romney shouldn't be held responsible for everything they sign because lawyers told them to and because it's impossible for them to read everything. If that's not what you intended to say, then what did you intend to say?

I never stated OR suggested anything of the kind

What I did (factually) state is there is no way people like that read everything about all the companies they invest in, AND do sign things their lawyers put in front of them after a brief (more often than not) verbal synopsis of what they;re about to sign

269 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 4:36:44pm

re: #256 Killgore Trout

Heh. No surprise there.

It shouldn't be. Truth is an absolute defense.

270 palomino  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 4:38:46pm

re: #268 sattv4u2

I never stated OR suggested anything of the kind

What I did (factually) state is there is no way people like that rwad everything about all the companies they invest in, AND do sign things their lawyers put in front of them after a brief (more often than not) verbal synopsis of what they;re about to sign

So then what's your actual point? It couldn't possibly be that Buffet or Romney, at the top of an organizational hierarchy, should have anything less than full responsibility for the operations of the investment firms they oversee, right?

271 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 4:39:02pm

re: #268 sattv4u2

I never stated OR suggested anything of the kind

What I did (factually) state is there is no way people like that rwad everything about all the companies they invest in, AND do sign things their lawyers put in front of them after a brief (more often than not) verbal synopsis of what they;re about to sign

Which is an utterly meaningless and pedantic point, because they still hold responsibility, which is all that matters.

272 sattv4u2  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 4:40:09pm

re: #271 goddamnedfrank

Which is an utterly meaningless and pedantic point, because they still hold responsibility, which is all that matters.

And I never stated, suggested nor intimated that they don't

Yet I'm being told that I did

Pedantic or not, I'll correct those that do!

273 sattv4u2  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 4:40:46pm

BBIAB

Dogs are eagerly waiting at the door for their stroll

274 Stanghazi  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 4:42:32pm

re: #228 Gus

[Embedded content]

O M G

275 Stanghazi  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 4:45:15pm

re: #241 sattv4u2

Exactly

maybe he's a white racist psycho
maybe he's a black cop who said something he thought was in jest and was overheard by someone who has a grudge against him
maybe it's anywhere in between those two

The unearned hatred Michelle receives is unbelievable though. Whoever is doing it. Sickening.

276 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 4:47:20pm

re: #272 sattv4u2

And I never stated, suggested nor intimated that they don't

Yet I'm being told that I did

Pedantic or not, I'll correct those that do!

Yep, pedantic. That was the whole point of your distraction though, to derail the conversation down a ridiculous, meaningless meander. The fact is there's every reason to believe Romney knew what he was signing his name to, just like Buffet likely does, and if he didn't then he still owns the consequences and cannot claim a lack of involvement. His signature is itself defacto and dejure evidence of involvement.

The reason it's relevant is that he's running for the highest leadership office in the US government, and if he can't accept responsibility or involvement for actions he signed off on then he shouldn't be allowed anywhere near the Presidency.

277 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 4:47:20pm

re: #263 palomino

Again, I'll ask the same question: what was false, and what should be corrected?

Mitt took his leave of absence to run the olympics when he said he did. There's no evidence he ran the company's investments during the period he was gone.

278 gwangung  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 4:48:55pm

re: #277 Killgore Trout

Mitt took his leave of absence to run the olympics when he said he did. There's no evidence he ran the company's investments during the period he was gone.

That's actually not a very good point to bring up.

It suggests that he didn't scrutinize the stuff he was responsible for very thoroughly.

279 Big Joe Ghazi  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 4:49:42pm

re: #277 Killgore Trout

Mitt took his leave of absence to run the olympics when he said he did. There's no evidence he ran the company's investments during the period he was gone.

If Romney is now claiming that he took a leave of absence from Bain, then why did he tell the FEC that he "retired"?

280 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 4:52:01pm

re: #277 Killgore Trout

Mitt took his leave of absence to run the olympics when he said he did. There's no evidence he ran the company's investments during the period he was gone.

Based upon what, other than his word and that of Bain?

281 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 4:52:36pm

re: #277 Killgore Trout

Mitt took his leave of absence to run the olympics when he said he did. There's no evidence he ran the company's investments during the period he was gone.

Except for his signature on investment stock purchases and the fact that he was still CEO, Chairman of the Board, President and sole stockholder.

In November 1999, Bain Capital and Madison Dearborn Partners, a Chicago-based private equity firm, filed with the SEC a Schedule 13D, which lists owners of publicly traded companies, noting that they had jointly purchased $75 million worth of shares in Stericycle, a fast-growing player in the medical-waste industry. (That April, Stericycle had announced plans to buy the medical-waste businesses of Browning Ferris Industries and Allied Waste Industries.) The SEC filing lists assorted Bain-related entities that were part of the deal, including Bain Capital (BCI), Bain Capital Partners VI (BCP VI), Sankaty High Yield Asset Investors (a Bermuda-based Bain affiliate), and Brookside Capital Investors (a Bain offshoot). And it notes that Romney was the "sole shareholder, Chairman, Chief Executive Officer and President of BCI, BCP VI Inc., Brookside Inc. and Sankaty Ltd."

The document also states that Romney "may be deemed to share voting and dispositive power with respect to" 2,116,588 shares of common stock in Stericycle "in his capacity as sole shareholder" of the Bain entities that invested in the company. That was about 11 percent of the outstanding shares of common stock. (The whole $75 million investment won Bain, Romney, and their partners 22.64 percent of the firm's stock—the largest bloc among the firm's owners.) The original copy of the filing was signed by Romney.

282 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 4:53:15pm

re: #278 gwangung

That's actually not a very good point to bring up.

It suggests that he didn't scrutinize the stuff he was responsible for very thoroughly.

As far as I can tell he wasn't responsible for much beyond having his name on the filing forms while other people ran the company.

he continued to fulfill legal obligations such as signing certain documents — but actual investment and managerial decisions were being made by others.

I haven't seen to contradict that.

283 Stanghazi  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 4:55:16pm

During Romney's testimony to establish MA residency while running for Governor.

284 gwangung  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 4:55:26pm

re: #282 Killgore Trout

As far as I can tell he wasn't responsible for much beyond having his name on the filing forms while other people ran the company.

As someone who's self-admittedly not much on SEC documents, that is NOT a very good argument to make.

If you're named as a President or Managing Director or CEO, you are, by law, responsible for a HELL of a lot more than that, even in a turn key role. By law, mind you.

But you know this, of course. We've only brought this up a couple hundred times.

285 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 4:55:57pm

re: #281 goddamnedfrank

Link is broken. Is that from the Mother Jones article?

286 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 4:56:20pm

re: #282 Killgore Trout

As far as I can tell he wasn't responsible for much beyond having his name on the filing forms while other people ran the company.

I haven't seen to contradict that.

The company was 100% his and his alone. That makes him responsible.

Again, you cannot delegate responsibility. Those other people who "ran" the company did so at his pleasure.

287 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 4:57:40pm

re: #285 Killgore Trout

Link is broken. Is that from the Mother Jones article?

Link fixed. Yes MJ. Read it slowly this time.

288 Stanghazi  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 4:58:41pm

re: #282 Killgore Trout

As far as I can tell he wasn't responsible for much beyond having his name on the filing forms while other people ran the company.

I haven't seen to contradict that.

NEW! At Amazon: My Life at LGF, an interesting journey only I can fully appreciate. - Kilgore Trout

289 wrenchwench  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 4:59:37pm

re: #282 Killgore Trout

As far as I can tell he wasn't responsible for much beyond having his name on the filing forms while other people ran the company.

So, he was only responsible for everything. Nothing more.

290 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 4:59:50pm

Drudge has just convinced a bunch of Freepers that Romney has put Condi Rice at the top of the VP list. Scurrying about ensues.

291 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 5:00:09pm

re: #286 goddamnedfrank

The company was 100% his and his alone. That makes him responsible.

Again, you cannot delegate responsibility. Those other people who "ran" the company did so at his pleasure.

I understand a lot of people are taking that position. Fine but then why put so much effort into claiming Mitt was running the company past '99? If that's your position then it doesn't make any difference if he was running the company or not. It just seems weird to put so much energy into proving he was running the company when it doesn't make any difference to you.

292 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 5:00:13pm

OK, I have to test this again...

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		$(imi).removeClass('ibusy').html(txt);

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293 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 5:00:31pm

/n?

294 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 5:00:37pm

Huh? Things just got /n

295 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 5:01:02pm

Trippy!
/N!

296 palomino  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 5:01:17pm

re: #277 Killgore Trout

Mitt took his leave of absence to run the olympics when he said he did. There's no evidence he ran the company's investments during the period he was gone.

But if he's still the CEO and no. 1 shareholder, he's in no position to disclaim his involvement in the company's actions from 1999-2003. Which is clearly what he's trying to do since he's essentially throwing the Bain of 99-03, just like Romneycare, under the proverbial bus. Bain did things during the 99-03 period that Romney simply doesn't want to be associated with.

www.businessinsider.com...]>Here are the questions that the Romney campaign needs to answer:
Was Mitt Romney "chairman, CEO, and President" of Bain from 1999-2002 (even if he had physically "left" and was spending 100% of his time running the Olympics)? If the answer is "yes," then Romney is responsible for what Bain did during that period--full stop.
OR
Were the filings submitted to the SEC inaccurate?
The answer to those two questions cannot be "both." It's one or the other.
And if the answer is that Mitt Romney was chairman, CEO, and president of Bain for the years in which he has long tried to disavow any responsibility for what the firm did, the American public has every right to feel misled.

297 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 5:01:31pm

Na, na, na na nah, na.

298 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 5:01:37pm

/N

299 Stanghazi  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 5:01:39pm

\\\NO!!

300 Big Joe Ghazi  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 5:01:41pm

wtf? after refresh I see a bunch of /n 's all over the left side of the page

301 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 5:02:01pm

Yes, I know.

302 wrenchwench  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 5:02:16pm

Who let the ns out?

303 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 5:02:29pm

re: #301 Charles Johnson

Yes, I know.

I liked it.

304 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 5:04:35pm

re: #11 Killgore Trout

He probably didn't read anything. Boring legal mumbo-jumbo and legal formalities.

Somehow I doubt that, Killgore. If he was CEO, I'm sure he was at least reading the documents he was signing, or at least their readable summaries (some documents for a firm like Bain can be hundreds of pages long).

305 Big Joe Ghazi  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 5:05:14pm

re: #303 Killgore Trout

I liked it.

You would.

306 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 5:05:46pm

re: #291 Killgore Trout

I understand a lot of people are taking that position. Fine but then why put so much effort into claiming Mitt was running the company past '99? If that's your position then it doesn't make any difference if he was running the company or not. It just seems weird to put so much energy into proving he was running the company when it doesn't make any difference to you.

Again, what proof is there that he'd given up control over Bain?

307 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 5:07:58pm

Once more into the breech...

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308 Stanghazi  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 5:08:52pm

re: #291 Killgore Trout

n

nnI understand a lot of people are taking that position. Fine but then why put so much effort into claiming Mitt was running the company past '99? If that's your position then it doesn't make any difference if he was running the company or not. It just seems weird to put so much energy into proving he was running the company when it doesn't make any difference to you.

nn

Uh, because he LIED?

309 gwangung  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 5:10:20pm

re: #291 Killgore Trout

nnI understand a lot of people are taking that position.
n

Actually, I don't think you do.

This is not a partisan position. This is a legal position. It's basic corporate governance.

310 Four More Tears  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 5:10:22pm

Drudge is floating Condi's name as a front-runner. I thought she was way out of the picture?

311 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 5:10:39pm

Man, it's tricky getting this ajax code to properly escape and display newlines inside <pre> tags.

312 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 5:11:17pm

re: #291 Killgore Trout

I understand a lot of people are taking that position. Fine but then why put so much effort into claiming Mitt was running the company past '99? If that's your position then it doesn't make any difference if he was running the company or not. It just seems weird to put so much energy into proving he was running the company when it doesn't make any difference to you.

It makes a huge amount of difference, in part because it appears he actually did divest total ownership control at the end of 2002. After that point he actually didn't hold any corporate offices and presumably wasn't signing any documents, SEC or otherwise on behalf of the company. It's the period between 1999 and 2002 that's fishy, because that's where it looks like Romney is attempting to retcon his history. If leadership as a quality matters to you then it should be troubling to see someone attempt to rewrite their past and refuse to accept involvement in decisions they clearly bore responsibility for and regarding which they signed documents under oath.

313 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 5:11:25pm

re: #310 It's a cookbook!

Drudge is floating Condi's name as a front-runner. I thought she was way out of the picture?

n

You're talking about the real world, not the Drudge/Freeper astral plane.

314 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 5:11:43pm

re: #310 It's a cookbook!

Drudge is floating Condi's name as a front-runner. I thought she was way out of the picture?

n

A quick search indicates she's toyed with the idea and indicated openness to it, but doesn't seem to be outright running for the slot. Only thing I'd seen her deny was a desire to run for the presidency.

315 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 5:12:40pm

re: #310 It's a cookbook!

Drudge is floating Condi's name as a front-runner. I thought she was way out of the picture?

I'd be honestly shocked if he picked her. Sure she was one of the more well respected members of the Bush administration but the Bush administration is still unpopular.

316 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 5:12:44pm

re: #311 Charles Johnson

Your efforts are appreciated!

317 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 5:18:04pm

re: #309 gwangung

Actually, I don't think you do.

This is not a partisan position. This is a legal position. It's basic corporate governance.

Must Concur. If the issue of when he actually stopped running Bain Capital can be credibly raised, then Mitt Romney will have to answer it himself. Mitt on Mute will not get him through this one.

If it turns out the question cannot credibly be raised (and we'll know within 36 hours if it can), then this will blow over. Also, if Mitt Romney can answer the issue effective and credibly, then he can move past this. But if it turns out that Mitt Romney engaged in any form of willful deception on this matter, then the general election is likely over before the conventions.

Dinner for me, BBL.

318 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 5:18:08pm

re: #315 HappyWarrior

I'd be honestly shocked if he picked her. Sure she was one of the more well respected members of the Bush administration but the Bush administration is still unpopular.

She has the backing of Big Leather.

Image: hp2-25-04c.jpg

319 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 5:18:55pm

And again...

if (rating == 0) {

	if ($(ipl).hasClass('igray')) {

		$(ipl).removeClass('igray');

		$(imi).removeClass('ibusy').html(txt);

	} else {

		$(imi).removeClass('ibusy').addClass('igray').html(txt);

	}

} else {

	if ($(imi).hasClass('igray')) {

		$(imi).removeClass('igray');

		$(ipl).removeClass('ibusy').html(txt);

	} else {

		$(ipl).removeClass('ibusy').addClass('igray').html(txt);

	}

}
320 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 5:19:09pm

Eureka!

321 erik_t  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 5:21:02pm

I will be touring a certain decommissioned submarine tomorrow. I can scarcely contain my excitement.

Submarines are fuckin' awesome

322 Big Joe Ghazi  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 5:24:14pm

re: #320 Charles Johnson

Eureka!

Went there last year on Vacation.

323 erik_t  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 5:25:27pm

re: #322 Big Joe

Went there last year on Vacation.

More of a Crescent City man myself.

324 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 5:26:11pm

Anyway, as you can probably already see, you can now embed code inside a comment by wrapping it in a <pre> tag. If you want to get that fancy formatting you see in my comments, give the pre tag two classes: the "syntax" class and a class describing the language the code is in.

For example, the comments I've been posting use:

<pre class="syntax javascript">

(Yeah, I know most of us will never use it -- I'm actually testing something else by adding this feature.)

325 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 5:26:44pm

re: #310 It's a cookbook!

Drudge is floating Condi's name as a front-runner. I thought she was way out of the picture?

Yeah, that seems pretty doubtful. I don't think Mitt has much of a chance. She does have a bright future in politics if she wants it. Becoming the Republican Geraldine Ferraro is not a wise move.

326 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 5:27:13pm

/n

327 erik_t  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 5:27:16pm

re: #324 Charles Johnson

Anyway, as you can probably already see, you can now embed code inside a comment by wrapping it in a <pre> tag. If you want to get that fancy formatting you see in my comments, give the pre tag two classes: the "syntax" class and a class describing the language the code is in.

For example, the comments I've been posting use:

<pre class="syntax javascript">

(Yeah, I know most of us will never use it -- I'm actually testing something else by adding this feature.)

     write(6,*) 'I wonder if this will work'
328 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 5:28:56pm

re: #327 erik_t

You have to add both "syntax" and "fortran". But unfortunately there's no theme for Fortran in our code formatter.

329 erik_t  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 5:28:59pm

re: #327 erik_t

Maybe something newer?

! This comment was not acceptable before 1990
330 erik_t  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 5:29:59pm

re: #328 Charles Johnson

You have to add both "syntax" and "fortran". But unfortunately there's no theme for Fortran in our code formatter.

I thiiiiiink I did, but I wouldn't swear to it. Either way, I don't see much use spending more than single-digit seconds on syntactical coloring of any FORTRAN flavour.

331 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 5:30:35pm

Languages supported: Syntax Highlighting - jQuery.Syntax -- Orion Transfer

Apache Config, AppleScript, Assembly, Bash, Bash Script, Basic, C/C++/Objective-C, C#, CSS, Diff, Go, Haskell, HTML, io, Java, JavaScript, Kai, Lisp, Lua, OCaml, Object-Oriented C, Pascal, Perl 5, PHP, Protocol Buffers, Python, Ruby, Scala, Smalltalk, SQL, SuperCollider, XML, YAML

332 wrenchwench  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 5:32:43pm

re: #331 Charles Johnson

Languages supported: Syntax Highlighting - jQuery.Syntax -- Orion Transfer

Darn, no English. I'm screwed. Oh wait! There's small talk!

333 erik_t  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 5:34:34pm

re: #331 Charles Johnson

Languages supported: Syntax Highlighting - jQuery.Syntax -- Orion Transfer

I demand Whitespace and Brainf***!

Although given the venue, something else may be more appropriate.

334 wrenchwench  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 5:39:04pm

re: #291 Killgore Trout

I understand a lot of people are taking that position. Fine but then why put so much effort into claiming Mitt was running the company past '99? If that's your position then it doesn't make any difference if he was running the company or not. It just seems weird to put so much energy into proving he was running the company when it doesn't make any difference to you.

[edited to remove /ns]

Why Romney's Quit Date at Bain Matters

335 Interesting Times  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 5:46:42pm

re: #334 wrenchwench

Why Romney's Quit Date at Bain Matters

336 wrenchwench  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 5:48:00pm

re: #334 wrenchwench

Why Romney's Quit Date at Bain Matters

Whoops, I meant to link the Page. Mikey should get credit.

337 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 5:55:52pm

re: #75 Killgore Trout

Bomb threat forces closure of Detroit-Canada tunnel
The real shocker for me is there's a tunnel from Detroit to Canada.

You didn't know there was a tunnel from Detroit to Canada?

(Of course, why I knew that I have no idea. Random piece of information with no attachments to it floating around in my head.)

338 wrenchwench  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 6:01:16pm
339 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 6:04:07pm

re: #337 SanFranciscoZionist

You didn't know there was a tunnel from Detroit to Canada?

(Of course, why I knew that I have no idea. Random piece of information with no attachments to it floating around in my head.)

What should really shock people is that the other Detroit-Windsor border crossing, the Ambassador Bridge, the busiest border crossing in North America, is owned by a fucking troll.

340 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 6:04:07pm

re: #334 wrenchwench

Why Romney's Quit Date at Bain Matters

In addition to the issues listed in that article, outsourcing, corporate raiding and legal issues is the matter of Romney's signature on SEC documents regarding the purchase of shares in Stericycle. If that form with his signature had been made available during the Republican debates Romney could well have been fucked. The other candidates would have figuratively crucified him on stage over buying into a firm that disposed of aborted fetuses. Bachmann, Gingrich and Santorum would have reached epic levels of apoplexy.

341 Big Joe Ghazi  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 6:05:38pm

re: #339 Learned Mother of Zion

What should really shock people is that the other Detroit-Windsor border crossing, the Ambassador Bridge, the busiest border crossing in North America, is owned by a fucking troll.

That's where we know it from! The off-ramp story.

342 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 6:05:48pm

re: #107 Expand Your Ground

This is all a red herring debate. One takes responsibility for what one signs.

If you cannot find the time to read it, you hire someone to read it for you and explain what it is and whether or not you should sign it.

That is what a President does, and he'd better be damn good at picking the right people and making the right decisions based on their advice or we are all in trouble.

This. None of these guys actually read everything. But they are responsible for someone reading it.

343 darthstar  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 6:07:10pm 

void RomneyCampaign(){

if truth.hurts(){

return lie;

else

return lie;}

}
344 darthstar  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 6:07:41pm

re: #343 darthstar

Meh...my javascripting sucks.

345 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 6:08:32pm

re: #183 Kragar

Rush Limbaugh: NAACP Booed Romney Because He Is White

Yes Rush. The NAACP just starts booing every time a white person gets up on their stage.

346 sattv4u2  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 6:08:37pm

re: #326 Killgore Trout

/n

Youtube Video
347 erik_t  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 6:09:39pm

re: #343 darthstar

[Embedded content]

e class="syntax javascript">
void RomneyCampaign(){
if truth.hurts(){
return lie;
else
return lie;}
}

(syn)Tax Error

No wonder Romneybot hates them so.

348 palomino  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 6:11:45pm

re: #340 goddamnedfrank

In addition to the issues listed in that article, outsourcing, corporate raiding and legal issues is the matter of Romney's signature on SEC documents regarding the purchase of shares in Stericycle. If that form with his signature had been made available during the Republican debates Romney could well have been fucked. The other candidates would have figuratively crucified him on stage over buying into a firm that disposed of aborted fetuses. Bachmann, Gingrich and Santorum would have reached epic levels of apoplexy.

Which is one reason I don't see pro-choice Condi Rice on the ticket with Mitt. Another, of course, is that Mitt has tried to disconnect himself and the GOP from all memory of Bush's presidency. Kinda hard to do that when W's NSA/SOS over two terms is on the ticket. As has been noted many times before, the GOP has convenient amnesia regarding their presidents. The last one they recognize as theirs is Reagan.

349 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 6:12:09pm

Everything leaks. My back has improved enough to attempt repair on my kitchen sink, first attempt failed. I'll try again tomorrow along with replacing the faulty hose connector I bought. Absolutely nothing in this house is watertight. It's like living in a Nazi submarine, every time I turn around something's leaking.

350 darthstar  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 6:12:13pm
351 Patricia Kayden  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 6:14:43pm

re: #317 Dark_Falcon

Mitt on Mute will not get him through this one.

Love that quote. Wish I liked popcorn because I need something to munch on while Romney is scheming up a response on this one.

352 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 6:15:08pm

re: #343 darthstar

Almost right, but you forgot to close the <pre> tag with </pre>! I corrected it.

353 sattv4u2  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 6:15:47pm

re: #349 Killgore Trout

Everything leaks. My back has improved enough to attempt repair on my kitchen sink, first attempt failed. I'll try again tomorrow along with replacing the faulty hose connector I bought. Absolutely nothing in this house is watertight. It's like living in a Nazi submarine, every time I turn around something's leaking.

Youtube Video
354 erik_t  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 6:17:03pm

re: #349 Killgore Trout

ALLAARRRRRMMM!!!

/toilet overflows

355 darthstar  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 6:17:07pm

re: #352 Charles Johnson

Almost right, but you forgot to close the <pre> tag with </pre>! I corrected it.

Thanks. I figured I forgot something.

356 darthstar  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 6:17:55pm

Ooh...and I like the view raw code toggle.

357 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 6:18:31pm

re: #324 Charles Johnson

Anyway, as you can probably already see, you can now embed code inside a comment by wrapping it in a <pre> tag. If you want to get that fancy formatting you see in my comments, give the pre tag two classes: the "syntax" class and a class describing the language the code is in.

For example, the comments I've been posting use:

<pre class="syntax javascript">

(Yeah, I know most of us will never use it -- I'm actually testing something else by adding this feature.)

 (got-lisp-p) (T)
358 Interesting Times  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 6:18:33pm

re: #354 erik_t

ALLAARRRMMM!!!

/toilet overflows

Serendipitous tweet is serendipitous:

359 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 6:19:17pm

re: #348 palomino

Which is one reason I don't see pro-choice Condi Rice on the ticket with Mitt. Another, of course, is that Mitt has tried to disconnect himself and the GOP from all memory of Bush's presidency. Kinda hard to do that when W's NSA/SOS over two terms is on the ticket. As has been noted many times before, the GOP has convenient amnesia regarding their presidents. The last one they recognize as theirs is Reagan.

I think Drudge ran out of cocaine and is running on bath salts. Either that or this Condi business is designed solely to divert attention away from the SEC documents.

360 darthstar  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 6:19:38pm

Of course my 'void RomneyCampaign' shouldn't return a value, as their candidate doesn't.

361 Varek Raith  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 6:20:28pm

re: #349 Killgore Trout

Everything leaks. My back has improved enough to attempt repair on my kitchen sink, first attempt failed. I'll try again tomorrow along with replacing the faulty hose connector I bought. Absolutely nothing in this house is watertight. It's like living in a Nazi submarine, every time I turn around something's leaking.

Nuke it.

362 darthstar  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 6:20:39pm
363 Stanghazi  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 6:32:11pm

re: #340 goddamnedfrank

In addition to the issues listed in that article, outsourcing, corporate raiding and legal issues is the matter of Romney's signature on SEC documents regarding the purchase of shares in Stericycle. If that form with his signature had been made available during the Republican debates Romney could well have been fucked. The other candidates would have figuratively crucified him on stage over buying into a firm that disposed of aborted fetuses. Bachmann, Gingrich and Santorum would have reached epic levels of apoplexy.

Now, they just turn their heads and tow the party line. Sister Sarah though, he should be afraid of her spouting off. She hates him. Just said his NAME for the first time on Hannity. It was noted.

364 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 6:33:21pm

re: #349 Killgore Trout

Everything leaks. My back has improved enough to attempt repair on my kitchen sink, first attempt failed. I'll try again tomorrow along with replacing the faulty hose connector I bought. Absolutely nothing in this house is watertight. It's like living in a Nazi submarine, every time I turn around something's leaking.

Plumber, maybe to trade for services?

365 What, me worry?  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 6:33:50pm

re: #359 goddamnedfrank

I think Drudge ran out of cocaine and is running on bath salts. Either that or this Condi business is designed solely to divert attention away from the SEC documents.

Condi is the last person to take the VP spot. She's said she's done and I believe her. And who can blame her. Madame Secretary is pretty grueling.

366 palomino  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 6:38:01pm

re: #362 darthstar

[Embedded content]

I think I'm in love with Helen. One of the things I hear when I visit TX is that Obama only wants blacks to have guns and is planning to take them away (just like Hitler did) from white people as he makes them slaves in the new world order. And then more gibberish about tyranny, dictatorship and Hitler/Obama. As if the way Hitler gained power was through gun control, and the German citizenry could have stopped him with their Lugers, Rugers, whatever...except that Hitler confiscated them.

Oh yeah, and the Civil War had nothing to do with slavery.

367 What, me worry?  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 6:38:40pm

Apparently, AT&T cut a "very large" fiber optic cable taking with it much of Miami. As it reroutes everyone, they said the connection will be spotty. So far, the only site I can access is this one! (Charles rocks.) I can't even get to Google.

368 What, me worry?  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 6:43:45pm

re: #366 palomino

I think I'm in love with Helen. One of the things I hear when I visit TX is that Obama only wants blacks to have guns and is planning to take them away (just like Hitler did) from white people as he makes them slaves in the new world order. And then more gibberish about tyranny, dictatorship and Hitler/Obama. As if the way Hitler gained power was through gun control, and the German citizenry could have stopped him with their Lugers, Rugers, whatever...except that Hitler confiscated them.

Oh yeah, and the Civil War had nothing to do with slavery.

Charlie Manson called. He wants his talking points back.

They said the same thing about Clinton through his entire presidency, well, minus the "blacks only have guns" part.

369 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 7:10:34pm

re: #354 erik_t

ALLAARRRMMM!!!

/toilet overflows

Image: das-boot-movie.gif


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