#Breitbart.com’s Lee Stranahan Outs Sexual Abuse Victim

How low will they go?
Wingnuts • Views: 44,847

You know that woman who testified that George Zimmerman had molested her for years, and was identified only as “Witness 9?”

breitbart.com’s Lee Stranahan outed her today: Trayvon, George, Witness 9 & Other Obama Political Casualties.

Welcome to the news cycle, Witness 9. The accusations of molestation by Zimmerman — who was one year older than his accuser, by the way — was all over the news today and will be for the rest of the week and beyond, where it will live in back of juror’s minds.

Try this test : don’t think about a pink elephant. Now, forget you ever heard about George Zimmerman and molestation.

The mainstream media will likely keep referring to ‘Witness 9′ for a few days but her real name is already out there and I’ve made the decision not to pretend it isn’t.

Did he mention that he was a close personal friend of Andrew Breitbart? Of course he did.

For better worse, a blog that I don’t remember seeing before — The Conservative Treehouse — has done the rapid research and outed Witness 9′s real name as [redacted]. The commenters also turned up other info on [redacted], including lots of personal data and what appear to be some legal issues.

The blog seems to have a Christian Conservative perspective and it has a big banner about Andrew Breitbart right up top. This is going to make some people’s heads explode — especially on the already conspiratorial left — even though the site has no official connection with Breitbart at all as far as I know. Since Andrew was a friend of mine and I worked with him on stories for months, I’m going to state as my personal opinion that Andrew wouldn’t have run that info on [redacted] until it was already well out there in the mainstream press. That’s not a criticism. It’s just my opinion and it’s worth what you paid for it.

(I redacted his text where it contained the witness’s name.)

And if you were wondering what kind of rationalization he could possibly come up with to justify such a total scumbag move, here’s the reason Stranahan gives (bold text in original):

The entire Trayvon Martin / George Zimmerman story was amped up into a national story on purpose by President Obama with the help of his surrogate Al Sharpton in order to help win the 2012 election.

The breitbart.com ideology in one simple sentence.

(h/t: STLActivist.)

UPDATE at 7/17/12 8:00:17 pm

And don’t miss Stranahan’s bizarre paranoid “mind maps,” in which he identifies his numerous enemies and the nefarious tactics they use against him, with random colors and spider web graphics: The Tactics of Online Political Warfare.

Click to enlarge

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439 comments

1 erik_t  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 6:30:10pm

Enemies of decency. Perhaps enemies of civilized society.

2 darthstar  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 6:30:29pm

Fucker's dead and he's still got a legacy of assholes.

3 Mattand  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 6:31:50pm

The new Breitbart.com: Now with misogyny!

4 austin_blue  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 6:32:15pm

I'd call the man a nutcase, but I defer from insulting legitimate nut cases out there in the cloud.

He's a certifiable freakazoid.

That is all.

5 erik_t  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 6:33:12pm

re: #3 Mattand

The new Breitbart.com: Now with misogyny!

Wait. That's new?

6 jaunte  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 6:33:58pm

What possible help is it going to be to the Romney campaign for everyone to know this woman's name?

7 kirkspencer  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 6:34:15pm

Charles, you missed a redaction. Second section, near the end.

8 General Nimrod Bodfish  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 6:44:19pm

This is why not many women come forward about sexual abuse/assault, especially when the perpetrators are politicians. Once the victim's name is out, she'll be called a slut, whore, etc; they will pry into their personal lives to try to either intimidate them into shutting up, or to further a political agenda. We saw it with Herman Cain, when women would come forward about sexual harassment/assault, and now we'll see it with Witness 9. Essentially, they're victimized again.

9 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 6:44:34pm

George Zimmerman, our hero.

10 KettleKat  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 6:49:15pm

Zimmerman is their role model. These guys would be out executing black people in the streets if they could get away with it.

11 R.M, Ramallo  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 6:49:32pm

This is more proof that there's no RW war on women !!! This is just their way of railing against Obama's dictatorial policies !
//

12 austin_blue  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 6:49:36pm

I'll repost this from downstairs, and I again apologize for the run-on sentence. KT pissed me off a little bit.

re: #202 Killgore Trout

George Zimmerman: Is the prosecution damaging his credibility?

The prosecution released the call for public relations purposes, it doesn't help them legally. They probably shouldn't have done it.

%%%

Testimony:

"He really doesn't like black people."

Goes to character. Perfectly legitimate tactic, unless you are defending Zimmerman. Common practice by DAs.

Let me ask you something:

If a thirty something black vigilante had an altercation with an unarmed 17 year old white boy, who he suspected of being a crankhead who was responsible for robberies in his neighborhood, and killed him, when it was completely not the case, and a white woman accused the black vigilante of serial sexual abuse over a decade because "He really doesn't like white people", would your tune be different?

13 STLActivist  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 6:52:59pm

Lowest of the low. Of course, this kind of bullsh*t discourages other victims from coming forward. And Stranahan did it for what? Cheap political points? Pathetic.

14 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 7:00:10pm

re: #13 STLActivist

Lowest of the low. Of course, this kind of bullsh*t discourages other victims from coming forward. And Stranahan did it for what? Cheap political points? Pathetic.

I don't even believe the stated reason.

Zimmerman is the hero of gun fetishists (and racists). Witness 9 is now in for heaps of harassment just because she muddies the narrative they want to believe.

15 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 7:00:23pm

There's a reason even Fox News doesn't release the names of rape victims: It makes the news source that does it look like a bunch of assholes and exposes the victim to attack. So now the late Breibart's heirs have crossed a line even Sean Hannity knows better than to break.

Breitbart.com is dried pus. End Story.

16 Prideful, Arrogant Marriage Equality Advocate  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 7:02:11pm

I agree that Zimmerman can be hurt by the accusations and that it really has nothing to do with his current problem. However, when the hell did this whole thing become a right-left thing? And why do all the wingnuts i know become fuming mad at Trayvon when he was the one that was killed for walking through a neighborhood his family lived in.
Trayvon was not armed was he? I can tell you one thing, If i was walking through a neighborhood and some creepy guy was following me and got out of his truck, i would have a big attitude myself!

17 Varek Raith  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 7:04:08pm

Good evening.

18 b_sharp  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 7:05:51pm

re: #17 Varek Raith

Good evening.

Hey Hitchcock, how goes it?

19 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 7:07:04pm

re: #18 b_sharp

Hey Hitchcock, how goes it?

I heard it that way too!!!

20 Prideful, Arrogant Marriage Equality Advocate  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 7:07:35pm

re: #19 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012

HA! So did I!

21 Varek Raith  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 7:08:11pm

Intriguing...

22 austin_blue  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 7:08:39pm

re: #18 b_sharp

Hey Hitchcock, how goes it?

Many young Lizards are going whaa?

23 b_sharp  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 7:12:59pm

re: #22 austin_blue

Many young Lizards are going whaa?

Then they need to watch more classics.

24 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 7:13:07pm

re: #16 Condescending Snotty Jaun Williams Elitist

I agree that Zimmerman can be hurt by the accusations and that it really has nothing to do with his current problem. However, when the hell did this whole thing become a right-left thing? And why do all the wingnuts i know become fuming mad at Trayvon when he was the one that was killed for walking through a neighborhood his family lived in.
Trayvon was not armed was he? I can tell you one thing, If i was walking through a neighborhood and some creepy guy was following me and got out of his truck, i would have a big attitude myself!

Because what Zimmerman did is the resentment fantasy, and the people who currently control the apparatus and voice of the "right wing" are populists and revanchists who've embraced racist tropes & conspiracy theories about legitimate authority.

But mostly it's about entitlement and privilege. The people selling Zimmerman are more generally selling the idea that some people are more equal than others: "more American," "true patriots," et cetera, et cetera--it's all dog whistles for rights for some, less rights for others. And the rage comes from the idea that a "better" American--Zimmerman--could be accused of wrongdoing versus a suspect American.

25 Petero1818  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 7:13:14pm

re: #16 Condescending Snotty Jaun Williams Elitist

Unfortunately it became a right - left thing when Obama decided to speak out on it. Personally, I felt Obama's comments were delicate even handed and perfectly legit. I also think that the story was having very widespread publicity long before Obama spoke, and I think it was important on a national level for the President to speak out about a crime and police reaction (in a way which indicted neither Trayvon nor Zimmerman) that was so racially divisive from the start. But, the moment he did speak up, it became a talking point of the right.

26 Targetpractice  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 7:13:17pm

I really don't understand why the Judge ignored both the defense and prosecution motions to keep this statement sealed and had it released. From all appearances, it does nothing except poison the jury pool while putting the "witness" in danger.

27 austin_blue  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 7:15:31pm

re: #23 b_sharp

Then they need to watch more classics.

Watch the 1st 27 seconds:

[Link: video.search.yahoo.com...]

28 Gus  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 7:15:34pm

Only the best an 8th grade education can buy.

//

29 General Nimrod Bodfish  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 7:16:52pm

re: #13 STLActivist

Lowest of the low. Of course, this kind of bullsh*t discourages other victims from coming forward.

Exactly. It discourages other victims so that the interested party can continue with whatever narrative they want (in the Zimmerman/Martin case, it's that Zimmerman was a God-fearing, patriotic American keeping his white neighborhood safe from those n****rs thugs in hoodies), and by having anything that portrays their "hero" in a negative light must be put down and out of the spotlight.

re: #16 Condescending Snotty Jaun Williams Elitist

I agree that Zimmerman can be hurt by the accusations and that it really has nothing to do with his current problem. However, when the hell did this whole thing become a right-left thing? And why do all the wingnuts i know become fuming mad at Trayvon when he was the one that was killed for walking through a neighborhood his family lived in.
Trayvon was not armed was he? I can tell you one thing, If i was walking through a neighborhood and some creepy guy was following me and got out of his truck, i would have a big attitude myself!

It became a right-left thing when the Right felt like, for an invented reason, Zimmerman's gun rights were being violated. They had nothing to back it up, but gosh-darn it, those god-hatin' liburls were after his gunz!

30 b_sharp  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 7:18:16pm

re: #27 austin_blue

Watch the 1st 27 seconds:

[Link: video.search.yahoo.com...]

Indeed, it does look like rain.

31 austin_blue  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 7:20:19pm

Kilgore? My #12? Kilgore?

Bueller? Bueller?

Anyone?

32 R.M, Ramallo  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 7:20:40pm

re: #26 Targetpractice

Have to find my source...possibly The Daily Beast, but it has something to do with Florida's Sunshine Laws regarding public records.

33 b_sharp  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 7:20:55pm

re: #31 austin_blue

Kilgore? My #12? Kilgore?

Bueller? Bueller?

Anyone?

Boo!

34 Amory Blaine  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 7:22:25pm

re: #8 Worrell-Rimshot 2012!

This is why not many women come forward about sexual abuse/assault, especially when the perpetrators are politicians. Once the victim's name is out, she'll be called a slut, whore, etc; they will pry into their personal lives to try to either intimidate them into shutting up, or to further a political agenda. We saw it with Herman Cain, when women would come forward about sexual harassment/assault, and now we'll see it with Witness 9. Essentially, they're victimized again.

Conservative modus operandi.

35 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 7:25:07pm

*SPITS*
That's as polite as I can be right now.

36 b_sharp  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 7:25:11pm

re: #34 Amory Blaine

Conservative modus operandi.

When did Obama, or anyone else, say that black kids fear being killed by whites?

37 Targetpractice  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 7:27:00pm

re: #32 OhNoZombies!

Have to find my source...possibly The Daily Beast, but it has something to do with Florida's Sunshine Laws regarding public records.

If that's the case, then it was just a matter of time before she was "outed."

38 Amory Blaine  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 7:29:45pm

More creepy Wisconsin GOP wisdom:

Top Romney Surrogate: Investing In Green Energy Is Turning America Into

The Soviet Union

Wisconsin Sen. Ron Johnson (R), a Mitt Romney campaign surrogate, compared the government’s investment in failed energy company Solyndra to the Soviet Union and Cuba, during an appearance on CNN’s Starting Point this Tuesday.

“President Obama simply doesn’t understand that it’s the free enterprise systems, the private sector, the productive sector, not the government sector that creates long-term self-sustaining jobs,” Johnson declared. “Take a look at the Soviet Union, Venezuela’s economic basket case, and is anybody moving to the island paradise of Cuba?”

39 SpaceJesus  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 7:30:37pm

whoa that's fucking pathetic

40 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 7:31:44pm

re: #38 Amory Blaine

More creepy Wisconsin GOP wisdom:

Top Romney Surrogate: Investing In Green Energy Is Turning America Into

The Soviet Union

The same USSR that was very anti- environmental? Sorry, Senator Johnson you don't get to compare green energy to the USSR just because you don't like it and anything bad in your eyes must be Soviet. Amazing how idiots like this get elected.

41 SpaceJesus  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 7:31:46pm

re: #38 Amory Blaine

yeah, giant too-big-to-fail corporations are the answer to our problems

42 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 7:31:57pm

re: #29 Worrell-Rimshot 2012!

Exactly. It discourages other victims so that the interested party can continue with whatever narrative they want (in the Zimmerman/Martin case, it's that Zimmerman was a God-fearing, patriotic American keeping his white neighborhood safe from those n***rs thugs in hoodies), and by having anything that portrays their "hero" in a negative light must be put down and out of the spotlight.

re: #16 Condescending Snotty Jaun Williams Elitist

It became a right-left thing when the Right felt like, for an invented reason, Zimmerman's gun rights were being violated. They had nothing to back it up, but gosh-darn it, those god-hatin' liburls were after his gunz!

Guns play a role, but in my opinion two things have played bigger roles:

1. As Petero1818 noted, much of the reaction on the right stemmed from a intense dislike of President Obama. Too many who are right-of-center will take the opposite position of that taken by either the president or his wife simply because they hate the Obamas.

2. Related to number 1 is a hostility to young black men in general. While in most people concern about crime stops well short of racism, for some people this concern mutates into a fixation on black males as a criminal race (it is, however, important to note here that young black males do commit crime far out of proportion to their share of the population). For some the worst of those who have descended into racism, someone like Trayvon Martin's life is forfeit if he is perceived to be any short threat. Any charges brought against someone from a "better race" who shoots a young black man are felt to be illegitimate as by the racist's logic a person like Martin is guilty simply ,because of who he is.

I should note that IMO reason 1 is a good deal more common than reason 2.

43 Ogami Itto  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 7:32:27pm
The entire Trayvon Martin / George Zimmerman story was amped up into a national story on purpose by President Obama with the help of his surrogate Al Sharpton in order to help win the 2012 election.

Conspiratorial left? o_O

44 Prideful, Arrogant Marriage Equality Advocate  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 7:33:34pm

re: #38 Amory Blaine

Did the Soviet Union and Cuba invest in a failed green energy company?

45 dragonath  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 7:35:01pm

re: #40 HappyWarrior

And over Russ Feingold of all people too. A supporter of transparent democracy defeated for some generic special interests shill.

46 austin_blue  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 7:36:05pm

re: #36 b_sharp

When did Obama, or anyone else, say that black kids fear being killed by whites?

Not the point, is it?

Can you imagine that Trayvon might have thought that GZ was after his cherry asshole? A pedophile stalker? Why did he follow him into the courtyard? Having been similarly cruised as a twenty year old student at Tulane walking down St. Charles Avenue, I can absolutely assure you that if that man had gotten out of his car, I would have punched him in the mouth. Would my shooting death have been justified?

47 R.M, Ramallo  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 7:37:52pm
48 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 7:38:49pm

re: #45 Fred Galt

And over Russ Feingold of all people too. A supporter of transparent democracy defeated for some generic special interests shill.

He was a Democrat running in a very bad year for Democrats running for the Senate in the Great Lakes states. Most Dems running for the Senate in a state bordering at least one Great Lake got clearly beaten.

49 Prideful, Arrogant Marriage Equality Advocate  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 7:38:58pm

re: #46 austin_blue

That was exactly my take as well since the beginning of this.
And if I could, I would have updinged you again just for "cherry asshole".

50 austin_blue  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 7:41:01pm

re: #49 Prideful, Arrogant Marriage Equality Advocate

re: #46 austin_blue

That was exactly my take as well since the beginning of this.
And if I could, I would have updinged you again just for "cherry asshole".

It's still cherry. Upding that.

51 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 7:41:28pm

re: #46 austin_blue

Not the point, is it?

Can you imagine that Trayvon might have thought that GZ was after his cherry asshole? A pedophile stalker? Why did he follow him into the courtyard? Having been similarly cruised as a twenty year old student at Tulane walking down St. Charles Avenue, I can absolutely assure you that if that man had gotten out of his car, I would have punched him in the mouth. Would my shooting death have been justified?

Under current Florida law, yes. Having struck first, the other guy could legitimately shoot you and claim justification. And if you survived and tried to sue him, Stand-Your-Ground has a provision that would likely dismiss your suit and make you responsible for any expenses he incurred in fighting your suit.

52 JRCMYP  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 7:42:11pm

You know, as the mother of three boys--three white boys--I feel tremendous sympathy for the parents of Trayvon Martin. The idea that someone would stalk one of them and shoot one of them for no other reason than Walking While Black (or White, as would be our case) is heartbreaking and infuriating.

I actually don't care much about Zimmermann. I don't care about the drip, drip, drip that is eating away at his reputation. Because it won't bring back the boy that he killed. It's all noise. In the end, this case is going to be about the fact that he killed a boy because he was outside, being black. Period.

53 b_sharp  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 7:42:31pm

re: #46 austin_blue

Not the point, is it?

Can you imagine that Trayvon might have thought that GZ was after his cherry asshole? A pedophile stalker? Why did he follow him into the courtyard? Having been similarly cruised as a twenty year old student at Tulane walking down St. Charles Avenue, I can absolutely assure you that if that man had gotten out of his car, I would have punched him in the mouth. Would my shooting death have been justified?

I asked to find out how badly Stranahan skewed peoples words.

54 Targetpractice  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 7:42:52pm

re: #47 OhNoZombies!

Zimmerman's attorney smears molestation accuser...
Hmmm...

Surprised ThinkProgress didn't bring out the big guns:

Jail call says defense attorney knew about Zimmerman’s hidden money

In the roughly 37 hours George Zimmerman spent talking on the phone during his first stint in jail, there are several minutes that could land his defense attorney in hot water.

One call suggests defense lawyer Mark O’Mara knew from the start that tens of thousands of dollars in donations had begun pouring in to help Zimmerman.

In a phone call recorded April 14 between Zimmerman and brother-in-law Scott Wilson, the two discuss the new defense lawyer and the attorney’s vision for an upcoming bond hearing. Zimmerman twice said that he told O’Mara that he tried to transfer $37,000 from his online legal defense fund site, but could not complete the transaction because PayPal rules prevent transfers larger than $10,000.

But in court later at Zimmerman’s bond hearing, O’Mara told the judge his client was broke.

55 erik_t  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 7:43:16pm

re: #51 Dark_Falcon

Under current Florida law, yes. Having struck first, the other guy could legitimately shoot you and claim justification. And if you survived and tried to sue him, Stand-Your-Ground has a provision that would likely dismiss your suit and make you responsible for any expenses he incurred in fighting your suit.

Nonsense. You were acting in fear of your safety and so defended yourself.

Must we really go through this again?

56 austin_blue  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 7:43:32pm

re: #51 Dark_Falcon

Under current Florida law, yes. Having struck first, the other guy could legitimately shoot you and claim justification. And if you survived and tried to sue him, Stand-Your-Ground has a provision that would likely dismiss your suit and make you responsible for any expenses he incurred in fighting your suit.

Well that's just as dumb as a box of rocks.

57 Mocking Jay  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 7:44:44pm

re: #56 austin_blue

Well that's just as dumb as a box of rocks.

Welcome to Florida.

58 austin_blue  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 7:46:02pm

re: #53 b_sharp

I asked to find out how badly Stranahan skewed peoples words.

Didn't read that way. Clarity in ones posts is important.

59 Targetpractice  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 7:46:46pm

re: #55 erik_t

Nonsense. You were acting in fear of your safety and so defended yourself.

Must we really go through this again?

The prosecution would have to show that the fear was one of immediate harm and that the shooter had done something to invoke that fear. In absence of eyewitness or video evidence, it comes down whether or not a jury believes the victim.

60 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 7:50:35pm

re: #55 erik_t

Nonsense. You were acting in fear of your safety and so defended yourself.

Must we really go through this again?

That's the stupid part of the law: The way SYG is written in Florida, both parties could claim justification if they were the sole survivor. If Austin had snapped his pursuer's neck, he too could have cited SYG. The only time it gets messy if both parties are still alive, for then it comes down to a battle of credibility.

61 Mocking Jay  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 7:52:27pm

re: #60 Dark_Falcon

That's the stupid part of the law: The way SYG is written in Florida, both parties could claim justification if they were the sole survivor. If Austin had snapped his pursuer's neck, he too could have cited SYG. The only time it gets messy if both parties are still alive, for then it comes down to a battle of credibility.

...

Two sole survivors?

62 Mocking Jay  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 7:53:01pm

re: #61 Mocking Jay

...

Two sole survivors?

Oh nevermind. I read that way wrong. :P

63 Targetpractice  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 7:53:38pm

re: #60 Dark_Falcon

That's the stupid part of the law: The way SYG is written in Florida, both parties could claim justification if they were the sole survivor. If Austin had snapped his pursuer's neck, he too could have cited SYG. The only time it gets messy if both parties are still alive, for then it comes down to a battle of credibility.

As is, we're in an even stickier legal situation, where there's nobody who can conclusively say how things started. It's now become a question of which the jury finds more plausible: the defendant's version of events or the prosecution's speculation on what happened.

64 austin_blue  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 7:53:46pm

re: #59 Targetpractice

The prosecution would have to show that the fear was one of immediate harm and that the shooter had done something to invoke that fear. In absence of eyewitness or video evidence, it comes down whether or not a jury believes the victim.

But the victim is dead. What can a dead man say? If that is the level of info that a jury can hear, than random murder is absolutely legal. And heaven help us all. And heaven help any person randomly walking through my neighborhood.

If you'll excuse me, I'm gong to lock and load one of my rifles and randomly shoot whoever I happen to see. Who can say what my motivation is?

65 b_sharp  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 7:55:21pm

re: #58 austin_blue

Didn't read that way. Clarity in ones posts is important.

How did it read?

66 What, me worry?  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 7:55:48pm

re: #63 Targetpractice

As is, we're in an even stickier legal situation, where there's nobody who can conclusively say how things started. It's now become a question of which the jury finds more plausible: the defendant's version of events or the prosecution's speculation on what happened.

Well, there is forensics. The physical evidence tells a story, too. But certainly, if Trayvon were alive, we'd have the other part of this story and a jury can more easily decide who's telling the truth.

67 Amory Blaine  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 7:56:10pm

George Zimmerman's Phone Calls From Jail Include Plea To Quran-Burning Pastor Terry Jones

In one of the nearly 150 jailhouse phone calls made by George Zimmerman from the Seminole County Jail in the weeks after his arrest for the killing of Trayvon Martin, he can be heard asking controversial pastor Terry Jones to hold off on a planned rally in his name.

In other calls, a soft-spoken Zimmerman can be heard whispering sweet nothings in his wife's ear. Other conversations are conducted in coded language about family in-fighting, lawyers and thousands of dollars in supporter donations.

During an April 19 phone call with Terry Jones -- the Gainseville, Fla., minister best known for his controversial Quran burnings and hanging President Barack Obama in effigy on the church's front lawn -- Zimmerman asked Jones to hold off on a planned rally in order to allow time "for healing."

"I was calling today to ask you humbly, from one God-fearing sinner to another, for time for healing, for not only the city of Sanford but America," Zimmerman asked. "I know that your intentions are good, and I know that ultimately God will see his will be done, however, I see that Saturday -- I just ask that you allow the city to heal and America to heal."

Zimmerman continued: "I just ask that perhaps instead of coming Saturday and protesting, we allow law enforcement to do their job and not lose focus, and that perhaps you could even come and visit and pray with me instead of protesting."

Zimmerman went on to tell Jones that he read the story of Jesus calming the storm and said, "I like to think this is a storm, in that Jesus is asking all of us to have faith and calm the storm."

Jones, by his grunts in response, seems to be taken slightly aback.

"Um, okay," Jones responded.

68 palomino  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 7:57:48pm

re: #60 Dark_Falcon

That's the stupid part of the law: The way SYG is written in Florida, both parties could claim justification if they were the sole survivor. If Austin had snapped his pursuer's neck, he too could have cited SYG. The only time it gets messy if both parties are still alive, for then it comes down to a battle of credibility.

I'd say this is pretty darn messy as is, and Zim's credibility is already in doubt, given the attempt to hide the contributions he got, and other incidents involving domestic abuse (not to mention, of course, unproven allegations of child molestation.)

69 R.M, Ramallo  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 7:58:21pm

What's the deal with Florida?

Flat fees for public defenders, TB outbreaks, voter suppression, WTF?

70 Targetpractice  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 7:59:34pm

re: #66 What, me worry?

Well, there is forensics. The physical evidence tells a story, too. But certainly, if Trayvon were alive, we'd have the other part of this story and a jury can more easily decide who's telling the truth.

There are forensics, but if the prosecution has bombshell evidence that would totally discredit Zimmerman's version of how the fight began, they've not released it. At the moment, the prosecution's only real hope is to so thoroughly trash Zimmerman's credibility that O'Mara won't dare put him on the stand.

71 palomino  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 8:00:02pm

re: #69 OhNoZombies!

What's the deal with Florida?

Flat fees for public defenders, TB outbreaks, voter suppression, WTF?

I don't know exactly what Florida's problem is, I'm just happy that it has unseated my two home states--TX and CA--as the most fucked up place in America.

72 Mocking Jay  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 8:00:51pm

re: #69 OhNoZombies!

What's the deal with Florida?

Flat fees for public defenders, TB outbreaks, voter suppression, WTF?

I will answer with a visual.

Image: a62_64e9252232.jpg

73 R.M, Ramallo  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 8:01:24pm

re: #71 palomino

With AZ following close behind...

74 palomino  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 8:04:13pm

re: #73 OhNoZombies!

With AZ following close behind...

Yes, they're definitely number two with a bullet. I expect they'll take the top spot at some point in the next decade. They just need more bizarre crimes (like face eating) to put them over the top.

75 Mentis Fugit  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 8:04:57pm

stranahan n. the segment of bowel discarded after performance of a colostomy [ME, f. OF estrange f. L extraneus EXTRANEOUS + ME f. HANG1]

e.g. "Stericycle hygienically dispose of surgical waste including stranahan."

If it worked for "Santorum"...

76 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 8:05:13pm

re: #68 palomino

I'd say this is pretty darn messy as is, and Zim's credibility is already in doubt, given the attempt to hide the contributions he got, and other incidents involving domestic abuse (not to mention, of course, unproven allegations of child molestation.)

The child molestation allegations are unlike to be heard in court. They're not relevant enough to the Martin case to overcome their potential to prejudice the jury. I also think the statute of limitations on the molestation has run out, but because of the issues of 'outcry' and repressed memories with child molestation I may be wrong on that.

77 What, me worry?  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 8:05:14pm

re: #70 Targetpractice

There are forensics, but if the prosecution has bombshell evidence that would totally discredit Zimmerman's version of how the fight began, they've not released it. At the moment, the prosecution's only real hope is to so thoroughly trash Zimmerman's credibility that O'Mara won't dare put him on the stand.

I think the cell phone call is going to be important and I don't think they've released much on that.

I'm with you though on releasing this kind of info (the alleged molestation). It's sure to make it more difficult to find a jury.

78 Kragar  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 8:05:50pm

Nothing is too low for the fuckers who worship Breitbart

79 What, me worry?  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 8:06:27pm

re: #71 palomino

I don't know exactly what Florida's problem is, I'm just happy that it has unseated my two home states--TX and CA--as the most fucked up place in America.

You want to know what's Florida problem? Three words

Governor
Rick
Scott

80 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 8:06:39pm

re: #6 jaunte

What possible help is it going to be to the Romney campaign for everyone to know this woman's name?

They've decided that Zimmerman is some kind of oppressed national hero.

81 What, me worry?  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 8:06:46pm

re: #72 Mocking Jay

I will answer with a visual.

Image: a62_64e9252232.jpg

And that guy (same thing).

82 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 8:07:17pm

re: #64 austin_blue

But the victim is dead. What can a dead man say? If that is the level of info that a jury can hear, than random murder is absolutely legal. And heaven help us all. And heaven help any person randomly walking through my neighborhood.

If you'll excuse me, I'm gong to lock and load one of my rifles and randomly shoot whoever I happen to see. Who can say what my motivation is?

In Texas? You'd get found guilty of murder. The SYG law in Texas is clearer on what constitutes a threat and its harder to wrongfully claim SYG justification.

83 Targetpractice  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 8:07:59pm

re: #76 Dark_Falcon

The child molestation allegations are unlike to be heard in court. They're not relevant enough to the Martin case to overcome their potential to prejudice the jury. I also think the statute of limitations on the molestation has run out, but because of the issues of 'outcry' and repressed memories with child molestation I may be wrong on that.

Statute of limitations in Florida, last I heard, was something like 7 years for acts alleged. And supposedly the most recent act was 10 years ago, so the SOL has come and gone. Only thing the allegations would be worth in court would be to prejudice the jury, and I don't think Corey's that desperate...yet.

84 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 8:08:43pm

re: #25 Petero1818

Unfortunately it became a right - left thing when Obama decided to speak out on it. Personally, I felt Obama's comments were delicate even handed and perfectly legit. I also think that the story was having very widespread publicity long before Obama spoke, and I think it was important on a national level for the President to speak out about a crime and police reaction (in a way which indicted neither Trayvon nor Zimmerman) that was so racially divisive from the start. But, the moment he did speak up, it became a talking point of the right.

I feel like it started well before that, almost from the moment the case hit the national media. And I was amazed. I couldn't believe people were rushing forward to be so passionately defensive of a man who'd shot someone for no reason that could be immediately ascertained.

85 What, me worry?  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 8:08:43pm

Come to the Sunshine State and Meet the Florida GOP! Working Hard to Rig Elections Since 2000!

86 R.M, Ramallo  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 8:09:03pm

I think Rick Scott could pass for Voldemort as well.

87 Targetpractice  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 8:10:06pm

re: #77 What, me worry?

I think the cell phone call is going to be important and I don't think they've released much on that.

I'm with you though on releasing this kind of info (the alleged molestation). It's sure to make it more difficult to find a jury.

Which cell phone call you mean, girlfriend "Deedee"?

88 DREd  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 8:11:39pm

That might be the greatest chart I've ever seen.

89 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 8:12:37pm

re: #76 Dark_Falcon

The child molestation allegations are unlike to be heard in court. They're not relevant enough to the Martin case to overcome their potential to prejudice the jury. I also think the statute of limitations on the molestation has run out, but because of the issues of 'outcry' and repressed memories with child molestation I may be wrong on that.

Maybe, but I'd be surprised if it was brought into court as well. It's an unrelated charge.

90 b_sharp  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 8:13:41pm

re: #36 b_sharp

When did Obama, or anyone else, say that black kids fear being killed by whites?

I got downdinged for asking for information.
[Sigh]

91 jaunte  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 8:13:46pm

re: #88 DREd

In the subset "Twitter Intimidation" there's a subcategory:
"Interagation."

92 What, me worry?  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 8:13:51pm

re: #87 Targetpractice

Which cell phone call you mean, girlfriend "Deedee"?

Is that the g/f? Have they released all that info?

93 Mocking Jay  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 8:19:40pm

Bain gives man work building a stage. Man whines about it.

94 Targetpractice  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 8:22:26pm

re: #92 What, me worry?

Is that the g/f? Have they released all that info?

Well, the substance of her interviews got released a couple weeks back, and I'm trying to find the recordings. But my impression from when I listened to them after their release was she's, at best, an unreliable witness. She seems to mumble her way through blocks of time, unsure of when some events happened, and can't say for sure she knows what really happened. The defense could very well accuse her of making up what she heard to protect Trayvon.

95 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 8:23:08pm

re: #93 Mocking Jay

Bain gives man work building a stage. Man whines about it.

[Embedded content]

Stupid question: How did Bain make money by closing a profitable plant?

I've got other questions after this one.

96 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 8:24:02pm

re: #95 Dark_Falcon

Stupid question: How did Bain make money by closing a profitable plant?

I've got other questions after this one.

When did this deal happen and which company did Bain buy?

97 Mocking Jay  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 8:26:15pm

re: #95 Dark_Falcon

Stupid question: How did Bain make money by closing a profitable plant?

I've got other questions after this one.

Hold on, let me google that for you...

Or you could just look up AMPAD for yourself.

98 What, me worry?  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 8:28:26pm

re: #94 Targetpractice

Well, the substance of her interviews got released a couple weeks back, and I'm trying to find the recordings. But my impression from when I listened to them after their release was she's, at best, an unreliable witness. She seems to mumble her way through blocks of time, unsure of when some events happened, and can't say for sure she knows what really happened. The defense could very well accuse her of making up what she heard to protect Trayvon.

That may be so. I thought I read that they were keeping the info quiet, but there doesn't seem to have been a gag order.

99 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 8:30:20pm

re: #97 Mocking Jay

Hold on, let me google that for you...

Or you could just look up AMPAD for yourself.

I did and the articles I read did not really explain what was going on.

100 Targetpractice  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 8:30:48pm

re: #98 What, me worry?

That may be so. I thought I read that they were keeping the info quiet, but there doesn't seem to have been a gag order.

Well, there's no record of the actual call besides technical ones, namely the company logs showing the call times, length, and so forth. The prosecution's copies of her testimony were released a few weeks back, so you should be able to find them or transcripts of them via Google.

101 What, me worry?  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 8:33:05pm

re: #97 Mocking Jay

Hold on, let me google that for you...

Or you could just look up AMPAD for yourself.

Oh yeaaa baby.

[Link: www.politico.com...]

[Link: www.businessweek.com...]

102 Mocking Jay  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 8:36:10pm

Watching Colbert and just learned of this story:

In Nevada, 'None' a Fearsome Foe for the GOP

lol

LAS VEGAS — President Obama and GOP presidential candidate Mitt Romney must face down a dubious and slippery opponent in Nevada this November. The mystery foe cannot be tamed with television ads and never breaks a campaign pledge. Its name is “none of these candidates.”
Nevada is the only state in the nation to offer voters the quirky ballot choice, and for more than three decades, statewide candidates here have had to contend with it. But this year, nervous Republicans have filed a federal lawsuit to try to oust “none” from the ballot.
They worry that “none” could siphon away a sufficient number of anti-Obama voters from Romney to throw the state to the president. And because the Silver State's six electoral votes are some of the most hotly contested in the nation, Republicans don’t want to leave anything to chance.

None of the Above more attractive than Romney.

lololol

103 sagehen  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 8:37:44pm

re: #95 Dark_Falcon

Stupid question: How did Bain make money by closing a profitable plant?

I've got other questions after this one.

By reopening in another country (at lower labor costs, but that's really the least of it), they got out from under pension and health care obligations, plus they had that piece of real estate to sell, and all the costs of shipping the equipment overseas and training the new staff was tax-deductible business expense.

104 Mocking Jay  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 8:38:18pm

re: #101 What, me worry?

Okay, I understand why individuals who own corporations aren't responsible for corporate debt, but why aren't corporations that own a corporation not responsible for those debts?

105 sagehen  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 8:40:59pm

re: #104 Mocking Jay

Okay, I understand why individuals who own corporations aren't responsible for corporate debt, but why aren't corporation that own a corporation not responsible for those debts?

Because corporations are people, my friend.

(less snarky answer -- because there's bulkheads between every layer of corporate ownership; you keep them open when the money's flowing the way you like, and lock them down to keep the debt obligation from also flowing to where the assets already went.)

106 austin_blue  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 8:41:28pm

re: #82 Dark_Falcon

In Texas? You'd get found guilty of murder. The SYG law in Texas is clearer on what constitutes a threat and its harder to wrongfully claim SYG justification.

Not really the point, was it? And the Texas law has been extended far beyond its original intent. A man who saw a kid breaking into his car was no-billed for shooting him to death over a block away.

107 Mocking Jay  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 8:43:14pm

re: #105 sagehen

Because corporations are people, my friend.

(less snarky answer -- because there's bulkheads between every layer of corporate ownership; you keep them open when the money's flowing the way you like, and lock them down to keep the debt obligation from also flowing to where the assets already went.)

Okay... but a lot of those debts went to paying Bain money. It just feels wrong. It's the whole privatized profits and socialized losses thing.

108 austin_blue  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 8:44:08pm

re: #53 b_sharp

I asked to find out how badly Stranahan skewed peoples words.

Where? Must have missed that..

109 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 8:47:18pm

re: #101 What, me worry?

mm!

110 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 8:53:52pm
111 Mocking Jay  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 8:54:58pm

Fox Turns Its Pension Crusade Towards The NYPD

Fox's Eric Bolling and Stuart Varney attacked New York Police Department (NYPD) officers' pensions, blaming pension obligations for the shrinking police force. But both Bolling and Varney have argued in the past for a smaller public sector workforce, and regularly blamed pensions for budget shortfalls while ignoring the effect of the economic downturn

On the July 17 edition of Fox & Friends, host Eric Bolling spoke with Fox Business Host Stuart Varney about the decline in number of NYPD officers. As The New York Times reported in 2009, the severity of budget cuts caused the New York City police force to "shrink through attrition to 34,304 members, about 6,000 fewer than in 2001." Varney blamed "the pension crisis" for the decline...

112 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 8:57:00pm

re: #106 austin_blue

Not really the point, was it? And the Texas law has been extended far beyond its original intent. A man who saw a kid breaking into his car was no-billed for shooting him to death over a block away.

I read about that one. But you may not have heard the rest of the story: The shooter avoided criminal charges, but the courts found that the law only justified his actions for the purposes of criminal law, not civil law. The kid's family sued the shooter for wrongful death and basically took him to the cleaners in the resulting civil lawsuit. The shooter's admission of having fired in criminal court left him with no civil defense.

113 bluecheese  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 8:59:20pm

re: #52 JRCMYP

I actually don't care much about Zimmermann. I don't care about the drip, drip, drip that is eating away at his reputation. Because it won't bring back the boy that he killed. It's all noise. In the end, this case is going to be about the fact that he killed a boy because he was outside, being black. Period.

I feel the same way. That douchebag can't even go to Target without bringing a loaded pistol with him. He got local police department on speed dial, so he the neighborhood snitch.

I don't give a fuck if he goes down for his bullshit. Killing someone just cause you are losing a fight is a punk move.

Dumbass.

114 ozbloke  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 9:01:39pm

re: #112 Dark_Falcon

I read about that one. But you may not have heard the rest of the story:

Money paid = All fixed now?

115 palomino  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 9:01:40pm

re: #76 Dark_Falcon

The child molestation allegations are unlike to be heard in court. They're not relevant enough to the Martin case to overcome their potential to prejudice the jury. I also think the statute of limitations on the molestation has run out, but because of the issues of 'outcry' and repressed memories with child molestation I may be wrong on that.

As I clearly said, the child molestation charges are unproven. But the damage is already done regarding Zim's credibility...for the judge, potential jurors, the media, both sets of attorneys, etc. And all of these groups are likely to play some role in the case's final adjudication. If you think a courtroom is a vacuum, you haven't spent much time in one.

Put that on top of Zim's clear misrepresentations of his funds, and you've pretty much lost the sympathetic defendant angle for all but the most racist fucktards who think killing young black kids is a public service.

116 Targetpractice  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 9:01:44pm

re: #113 bluecheese

I feel the same way. That douchebag can't even go to Target without bringing a loaded pistol with him. He got local police department on speed dial, so he the neighborhood snitch.

I don't give a fuck if he goes down for his bullshit. Killing someone just cause you are losing a fight is a punk move.

Dumbass.

What if the situation is instead that you got attacked and are getting the shit beat out of you. Does shooting the other guy then become justified?

117 prairiefire  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 9:02:47pm

re: #113 bluecheese

Are you as rare as a blue moon?

118 Kragar  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 9:04:37pm

Rick Perry: Eric Holder’s Voter ID Comments ‘Incite Racial Tension’

Because doing everything in your power to restrict voting rights couldn't possibly be inciting anyone.

119 palomino  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 9:05:49pm

re: #116 Targetpractice

What if the situation is instead that you got attacked and are getting the shit beat out of you. Does shooting the other guy then become justified?

Shouldn't be if you pursued him for no reason other than a twisted desire to play cop.

120 Targetpractice  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 9:07:22pm

re: #119 palomino

Shouldn't be if you pursued him for no reason other than a twisted desire to play cop.

So if he chased you, and you decided to turn around and kick his ass, it's entirely justified? You could smash his head open the concrete and that would be okay?

121 Ogami Itto  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 9:07:38pm

re: #95 Dark_Falcon

122 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 9:10:23pm

re: #118 Kragar

Rick Perry: Eric Holder’s Voter ID Comments ‘Incite Racial Tension’

Because doing everything in your power to restrict voting rights couldn't possibly be inciting anyone.

"Inciting Racial Tension" is one of those concepts that only gets applied to nonwhites and liberals. Foul statements from wingnuts which contain racist tropes don't incite "racial tension."

123 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 9:11:13pm

re: #114 ozbloke

Money paid = All fixed now?

No, of course not. I was just pointing out that the resolution of the matter ended up ruining the shooter. He avoided prison, but he was saddled with a ruinous judgement and every background check ever run on him from now on will show he was successfully sued for wrongfully killing someone.

124 HappyWarrior  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 9:12:44pm

re: #118 Kragar

Rick Perry: Eric Holder’s Voter ID Comments ‘Incite Racial Tension’

Because doing everything in your power to restrict voting rights couldn't possibly be inciting anyone.

Isn't this the same guy who belonged to a hunting club called N-wordwood? Yeah Rick, something about glass houses.

125 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 9:13:10pm

why cant I remember the tweet a comment code???? idjit.

126 palomino  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 9:13:52pm

re: #120 Targetpractice

So if he chased you, and you decided to turn around and kick his ass, it's entirely justified? You could smash his head open the concrete and that would be okay?

No, it's much better for a guy like Zim to just follow--for no legit reason--and then shoot an unarmed teenager. There are a million hypotheticals you can come up with to minimize the stupid, reckless, deranged actions of a Zimmerman.

Jesus Christ, man, we don't live in the Wild West anymore, as much as Ted Nugent types wish we did.

127 Mattand  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 9:14:09pm

re: #122 The Ghost of a Flea

"Inciting Racial Tension" is one of those concepts that only gets applied to nonwhites and liberals. Foul statements from wingnuts which contain racist tropes don't incite "racial tension."

AKA Political Correctness AKA "Let me see how close I can get to a bigoted statement in public without being blatant about it."

128 freetoken  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 9:15:38pm

My internet connection is being funky again... get 50% packet losses... ping times over 400ms to google, or even to my own ISP (cox.net).

I blame big government. The internet is a creation of the US government, therefore it must be fundamentally flawed and not work.

129 Targetpractice  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 9:15:55pm

re: #126 palomino

No, it's much better for a guy like Zim to just follow--for no legit reason--and then shoot an unarmed teenager. There are a million hypotheticals you can come up with to minimize the stupid, reckless, deranged actions of a Zimmerman.

Jesus Christ, man, we don't live in the Wild West anymore, as much as Ted Nugent types wish we did.

So the punch in the face, the fighting, Trayvon ending up on top of GZ and beating his head in. None of that happened? Zimmerman just unlimbered his shootin' iron and plugged Trayvon right there in front of everyone?

130 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 9:18:32pm

re: #129 Targetpractice

So the punch in the face, the fighting, Trayvon ending up on top of GZ and beating his head in. None of that happened? Zimmerman just unlimbered his shootin' iron and plugged Trayvon right there in front of everyone?

This is where we say: dude confronts dude, other dude responds. Dude #1 has gun. Unfair fight.

131 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 9:19:33pm

re: #130 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012

This is where we say: dude confronts dude, other dude responds. Dude #1 has gun. Unfair fight.

Oh and dude #2 is dead. And fucking villified, because of the color of his skin. he's not a dead victim, he's a thug. makes me deathly sick.

132 Targetpractice  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 9:19:52pm

re: #130 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012

This is where we say: dude confronts dude, other dude responds. Dude #1 has gun. Unfair fight.

Who confronted who? And who responded to what?

133 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 9:20:00pm

re: #124 HappyWarrior

Isn't this the same guy who belonged to a hunting club called N-wordwood? Yeah Rick, something about glass houses.

You're not understanding the "who can incite racial tension" rules.

Who can incite racial tension:

Black people
Mexicans
Ungrateful Jews and Orientals
Bleeding-heart Liberals

Who can't incite racial tension:

White people, not even openly racist white people.

When a white person is suspected of inciting racial tension, what actually happened is:
1. They were being boldly "politically incorrect."
2. They were being a "realist."
3. They spoke without thinking, but really what's important is that the offended people are probably racist.
4. They made a mis-statement, and are very very sorry that the coloreds and a bunch of whiny pussies took offense and hopefully they won't riot now.
5. Satire.

134 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 9:20:31pm

re: #132 Targetpractice

Who confronted who? And who responded to what?

Follower and the one followed. It's that simple to me.

135 ozbloke  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 9:21:35pm

re: #128 freetoken

My internet connection is being funky again... get 50% packet losses... ping times over 400ms to google, or even to my own ISP (cox.net).

I blame big government. The internet is a creation of the US government, therefore it must be fundamentally flawed and not work.

Its the government tax your packets.

136 Targetpractice  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 9:21:53pm

re: #134 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012

Follower and the one followed. It's that simple to me.

Who was following whom at the time the confrontation happened? If Zimmerman really did give up the chase and was on his way back to his truck when Trayvon confronted him, who's still the follower and who's the followed?

137 palomino  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 9:22:04pm

re: #129 Targetpractice

So the punch in the face, the fighting, Trayvon ending up on top of GZ and beating his head in. None of that happened? Zimmerman just unlimbered his shootin' iron and plugged Trayvon right there in front of everyone?

As far as I understand, there was no "everyone" who witnessed this.

Interesting that you take Zim's word for how everything went down, when the only other direct eyewitness is dead due to Zim.

Bottom line: overzealous stupid civilians who arm themselves to play cop and pursue "suspects" for no reason just don't get much sympathy from me. I just don't get people who passionately defend Zim, especially the ones sending him money. Zim created this dangerous situation, not the kid holding a bag of Skittles. If he hadn't decided to play superhero in his mind, none of this would have happened.

138 Targetpractice  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 9:23:33pm

re: #137 palomino

As far as I understand, there was no "everyone" who witnessed this.

Interesting that you take Zim's word for how everything went down, when the only other direct eyewitness is dead due to Zim.

Bottom line: overzealous stupid civilians who arm themselves to play cop and pursue "suspects" for no reason just don't get much sympathy from me. I just don't get people who passionately defend Zim, especially the ones sending him money. Zim created this dangerous situation, not the kid holding a bag of Skittles. If he hadn't decided to play superhero in his mind, none of this would have happened.

I take his word because, at this point, that's all there is. Without it, I'm left with speculation, and that's not something upon which to convict a man for Murder 2 and possibly put him behind bars for life.

139 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 9:23:36pm

re: #136 Targetpractice

Who was following whom at the time the confrontation happened? If Zimmerman really did give up the chase and was on his way back to his truck when Trayvon confronted him, who's still the follower and who's the followed?

We will never know if this perfectly convenient way of getting out of shooting an unarmed teenager is true.

140 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 9:24:14pm

re: #136 Targetpractice

Yeah, I'm not feeling as lot of sympathy for the armed guy who was out looking for trouble. And ignored a police warning not to engage.

141 R.M, Ramallo  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 9:24:18pm

re: #132 Targetpractice

All involved would be well if George would have kept his ass in the car. Bottom line.

142 Mattand  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 9:25:00pm

re: #137 palomino

As far as I understand, there was no "everyone" who witnessed this.

Interesting that you take Zim's word for how everything went down, when the only other direct eyewitness is dead due to Zim.

Bottom line: overzealous stupid civilians who arm themselves to play cop and pursue "suspects" for no reason just don't get much sympathy from me. I just don't get people who passionately defend Zim, especially the ones sending him money. Zim created this dangerous situation, not the kid holding a bag of Skittles. If he hadn't decided to play superhero in his mind, none of this would have happened.

Zimmerman has admitted he understood that the 911 operator was telling him to back off, but he ignored them. If he didn't give in to his inner Punisher, Martin would still be alive.

And all of this circles back to the perverse beauty of SYG: as long as you murder your "assailant", you can make up any old story you want.

143 Targetpractice  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 9:25:08pm

re: #139 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012

We will never know if this perfectly convenient way of getting out of shooting an unarmed teenager is true.

You're probably right, we won't. Which is a pity, because if the prosecution could prove beyond reasonable doubt that Zimmerman did start the fight, then they could put his ass behind bars for good. Instead, they're left hoping that this goes to trial and that they can convince 12 jurors to agree that he's a scumbag.

144 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 9:25:21pm

re: #138 Targetpractice

I take his word because, at this point, that's all there is. Without it, I'm left with speculation, and that's not something upon which to convict a man for Murder 2 and possibly put him behind bars for life.

Poor dead kid. His side is just speculation. We will never know.

145 bluecheese  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 9:25:34pm

why the fuck you need a pistol to go to Target anyway?

146 Targetpractice  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 9:26:01pm

re: #141 OhNoZombies!

All involved would be well if George would have kept his ass in the car. Bottom line.

And until you can prove that's a crime, it's not something to hang a Murder 2 conviction on.

147 palomino  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 9:26:51pm

re: #138 Targetpractice

I take his word because, at this point, that's all there is. Without it, I'm left with speculation, and that's not something upon which to convict a man for Murder 2 and possibly put him behind bars for life.

But his word is all there is because...he shot the other guy dead. So I just feel like I'm only getting half the story as far as firsthand accounts. And I don't trust a guy who lies about his finances and pursues non-suspects (I think you'd agree there was no reason to follow Trayvon--even Zim can't provide a good one) due to a need to prove his manliness or pseudo-cop skills.

148 Targetpractice  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 9:29:51pm

re: #147 palomino

But his word is all there is because...he shot the other guy dead. So I just feel like I'm only getting half the story as far as firsthand accounts. And I don't trust a guy who lies about his finances and pursues non-suspects (I think you'd agree there was no reason to follow Trayvon--even Zim can't provide a good one) due to a need to prove his manliness or pseudo-cop skills.

What I personally think of him is legally irrelevant, even if I agree with the lead homicide investigator that he's got a hero complex. The man may be an asshole, he may be a dipshit, he may even be a piss-poor liar. But so long as the prosecution can't prove their case, none of that matters.

149 palomino  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 9:32:44pm

re: #146 Targetpractice

And until you can prove that's a crime, it's not something to hang a Murder 2 conviction on.

And, according to the letter of the law, you may very well be right. But real world situations have a way of not precisely conforming to the wordy statutes written by the alleged intellectuals who populate our state legislatures.

And none of this mitigates the fact that, yes, Zimmerman is a scumbag reckless fool wanna-be cop.

150 Targetpractice  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 9:37:49pm

re: #149 palomino

And, according to the letter of the law, you may very well be right. But real world situations have a way of not precisely conforming to the wordy statutes written by the alleged intellectuals who populate our state legislatures.

And none of this mitigates the fact that, yes, Zimmerman is a scumbag reckless fool wanna-be cop.

I'm not gonna argue that I agree with the SYG law as written in Florida, only dura lex sed lex, the law is hard but it is the law. We've heard various stories out of Florida where this law has allowed men like Zimmerman to go free, but this one seems to have gotten all the focus because of who the shooter is and who the decedent was as portrayed by the media.

151 palomino  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 9:38:25pm

re: #148 Targetpractice

What I personally think of him is legally irrelevant, even if I agree with the lead homicide investigator that he's got a hero complex. The man may be an asshole, he may be a dipshit, he may even be a piss-poor liar. But so long as the prosecution can't prove their case, none of that matters.

When you say "none of it matters" I would disagree. It may not matter in the strictest legal sense, but this case has taken on a life of its own that transcends the vast majority of murders.

OJ, for example, was found not guilty but it's hard to say that none of that mattered, given the impact it had on American society for an excruciatingly long 9 month trial (longest we've had here in CA history), as well as the racial soul-searching afterward. Same here: the case is now symbolic across American society, and has political significance to millions due to the racial, police, and firearm angles.

152 R.M, Ramallo  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 9:39:01pm

re: #146 Targetpractice

Fair enough, however if one goes looking for trouble, with a loaded gun, no less, odds are you will find it, and shit never goes the way one expects it to.

Initially, the homicide detective on the scene didn't believe Zim's story and felt he should have been arrested on the spot.

The critical period in which a proper investigation was lost to the wind because the police didn't do their job in the first place.

Oh, and Zim is a proven liar and dumb-ass to boot.

153 Varek Raith  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 9:40:33pm

re: #145 bluecheese

why the fuck you need a pistol to go to Target anyway?

Same reason I carry a sword wherever I go.

154 Targetpractice  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 9:42:52pm

re: #151 palomino

When you say "none of it matters" I would disagree. It may not matter in the strictest legal sense, but this case has taken on a life of its own that transcends the vast majority of murders.

OJ, for example, was found not guilty but it's hard to say that none of that mattered, given the impact it had on American society for an excruciatingly long 9 month trial (longest we've had here in CA history), as well as the racial soul-searching afterward. Same here: the case is now symbolic across American society, and has political significance to millions due to the racial, police, and firearm angles.

Court's not allowed to consider the non-legal significance of the crime or how a verdict will be received, only the facts of the case before it. And I'd argue that this case, like the OJ case, is no landmark case, just the latest one to attract the media's attention. Before this, it was the Anthony case, with people still convinced to this day that she murdered that little girl despite the prosecution's total inability to convince a jury of that.

155 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 9:43:00pm

re: #129 Targetpractice

So the punch in the face, the fighting, Trayvon ending up on top of GZ and beating his head in. None of that happened? Zimmerman just unlimbered his shootin' iron and plugged Trayvon right there in front of everyone?

I don't know what happened.

However, as I've said all along, it would not surprise me to learn that a teenage boy confronted a stranger who was trailing him.

And I'd be hard-pressed to say that was the wrong move, except that he ended up dead.

He had no way to know he wasn't going to end up dead either way.

156 prairiefire  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 9:43:04pm

re: #131 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012

Trayvon was a minor. He had a future. He was killed over a what, a dispute? Over what? For wearing a suspicious looking hoodie jacket and carrying a box of skittles? Just trying to walk home from the convenience store, dude, and you get shot.

157 Gus  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 9:43:08pm

re: #153 Varek Raith

Same reason I carry a sword wherever I go.

I prefer to take the tried and true iron cannon on caissons everywhere I go.

158 palomino  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 9:44:18pm

re: #150 Targetpractice

I'm not gonna argue that I agree with the SYG law as written in Florida, only dura lex sed lex, the law is hard but it is the law. We've heard various stories out of Florida where this law has allowed men like Zimmerman to go free, but this one seems to have gotten all the focus because of who the shooter is and who the decedent was as portrayed by the media.

But we all know that the law doesn't always produce justice, which is what we're really arguing about. Most of us aren't parsing 2nd degree murder statutes to see if Zim is susceptible; instead, we're reacting to a set of facts that seems to have led to a totally unnecessary death due to the actions of an overzealous dickhead. Should he get 25 yrs to life? That might seem like a miscarriage of justice on the harsh side. But should he just walk free? That's arguably as big a miscarriage of justice to the other extreme.

159 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 9:44:48pm

re: #136 Targetpractice

Who was following whom at the time the confrontation happened? If Zimmerman really did give up the chase and was on his way back to his truck when Trayvon confronted him, who's still the follower and who's the followed?

Is there evidence that that's what happened?

I've been followed at night by strange men. I'm a woman, and older than Trayvon, and usually in urban areas where there is somewhere to flee to. But I have found myself thinking, if this happens, and this happens, I will turn around and try to take him down.

160 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 9:45:15pm

re: #138 Targetpractice

I take his word because, at this point, that's all there is.

Yeah. The only other witness is dead.

161 prairiefire  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 9:45:48pm

re: #160 SanFranciscoZionist

Yeah. The only other witness is dead.

Good lord, I don't take his word for anything.

162 Targetpractice  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 9:47:14pm

re: #152 OhNoZombies!

Fair enough, however if one goes looking for trouble, with a loaded gun, no less, odds are you will find it, and shit never goes the way one expects it to.

Initially, the homicide detective on the scene didn't believe Zim's story and felt he should have been arrested on the spot.

The critical period in which a proper investigation was lost to the wind because the police didn't do their job in the first place.

Oh, and Zim is a proven liar and dumb-ass to boot.

The police didn't do anything because the police had no evidence upon which to base a case. From all appearances, even after taking over and beating the bushes, even the special prosecutor has been unable to find solid evidence upon which to build a case. It looks to be more like one that's half speculation, half circumstantial.

163 Targetpractice  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 9:48:13pm

re: #158 palomino

But we all know that the law doesn't always produce justice, which is what we're really arguing about. Most of us aren't parsing 2nd degree murder statutes to see if Zim is susceptible; instead, we're reacting to a set of facts that seems to have led to a totally unnecessary death due to the actions of an overzealous dickhead. Should he get 25 yrs to life? That might seem like a miscarriage of justice on the harsh side. But should he just walk free? That's arguably as big a miscarriage of justice to the other extreme.

Should a conviction be based upon feelings or upon evidence?

164 palomino  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 9:48:20pm

re: #154 Targetpractice

Court's not allowed to consider the non-legal significance of the crime or how a verdict will be received, only the facts of the case before it. And I'd argue that this case, like the OJ case, is no landmark case, just the latest one to attract the media's attention. Before this, it was the Anthony case, with people still convinced to this day that she murdered that little girl despite the prosecution's total inability to convince a jury of that.

What courts aren't "allowed" to do, and what they really do are two different things. Why do you think the OJ trial (a simple, routine double stabbing) turned into the longest murder case in the state's history? Precisely because the extra-legal aspects of the case took over. I'll say it again: the courts don't operate in a vacuum. See Justice Roberts and the two conflicting opinions he wrote in the ACA decision. Judges and juries consider policy and social issues in their determinations. They aren't robots who check their feelings at the door.

165 Targetpractice  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 9:49:34pm

re: #159 SanFranciscoZionist

Is there evidence that that's what happened?

I've been followed at night by strange men. I'm a woman, and older than Trayvon, and usually in urban areas where there is somewhere to flee to. But I have found myself thinking, if this happens, and this happens, I will turn around and try to take him down.

There doesn't seem to be any evidence that Zimmerman ran Trayvon down and confronted him either.

166 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 9:49:49pm

re: #161 prairiefire

Good lord, I don't take his word for anything.

Especially after the bail shenanigans or the bullshit apology where he said he thought Martin was much older, contradicting his correct assessment on the police tape. I think the dude is a weasel.

167 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 9:49:55pm

re: #162 Targetpractice

The police didn't do anything because the police had no evidence upon which to base a case. From all appearances, even after taking over and beating the bushes, even the special prosecutor has been unable to find solid evidence upon which to build a case. It looks to be more like one that's half speculation, half circumstantial.

This is the part that chills my blood, to be honest.

Apparently, if I lived in the right state, I could go out tonight, stalk and kill one of my neighbors, and be let go at the scene because I said they were threatening me.

Dead men tell no tales.

I wonder how many times I could repeat this routine before it occurred to the cops that I was just a serial killer with a peculiar schtick?

168 Mich-again  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 9:50:00pm

re: #138 Targetpractice

I take his word because, at this point, that's all there is.

Really? the only evidence that can be used is GZ's account of the incident? How in the world do the police solve all those other murder cases where there isn't an eye-witness account?

169 freetoken  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 9:50:42pm

Al Jolson, 1924:

170 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 9:51:02pm

re: #165 Targetpractice

There doesn't seem to be any evidence that Zimmerman ran Trayvon down and confronted him either.

And the goddamn murdering SOB may walk because of that. He left no evidence behind.

But I'm not going to be on his jury, and I don't need to pretend. As Darien O'Toole of blessed memory said about OJ, 'He's guilty guilty guilty."

171 Targetpractice  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 9:53:57pm

re: #164 palomino

What courts aren't "allowed" to do, and what they really do are two different things. Why do you think the OJ trial (a simple, routine double stabbing) turned into the longest murder case in the state's history? Precisely because the extra-legal aspects of the case took over. I'll say it again: the courts don't operate in a vacuum. See Justice Roberts and the two conflicting opinions he wrote in the ACA decision. Judges and juries consider policy and social issues in their determinations. They aren't robots who check their feelings at the door.

Of course, that's why both sides in a case have to work the case in the media as well as in the courtroom. The difference is that the court of public opinion can't try, convict, and hang a man before he's ever had his day in court.

172 palomino  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 9:55:53pm

re: #163 Targetpractice

Should a conviction be based upon feelings or upon evidence?

Ohh, please, gimme a break. Did I even remotely suggest that Zim must be convicted of Murder 2 for this? I agreed with you that that charge is likely too harsh to stand up in court. On the other hand, do you feel justice has been served if Zim just walks? Does that send a positive message to the community?

This is precisely why there are lesser included offenses in many homicide trials. Murder 2's requirements may not be met, but a charge like reckless endangerment or negligent homicide may be appropriate in this situation. Why the DA didn't also file such charges I don't know.

173 Targetpractice  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 9:55:59pm

re: #168 Mich-again

Really? the only evidence that can be used is GZ's account of the incident? How in the world do the police solve all those other murder cases where there isn't an eye-witness account?

Physical evidence can only tell you so much. It may show you where the fight started and where it ended, but can't tell you what was in the mind of the people fighting. And that's what a large part of the prosecution's case is gonna hinge on, trying to tell the jury what was going through the minds of George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin that night.

174 Ming  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 9:57:19pm

re: #6 jaunte

What possible help is it going to be to the Romney campaign for everyone to know this woman's name?

It sends the message that if you stand up to someone who's on the "right-wing team", you will suffer. The point is that the woman who testified against George Zimmerman is being told by the mini-barts: speak up again, and we'll go after you. Leave George alone. He stood his ground, and he's one of us now.

175 R.M, Ramallo  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 9:57:59pm

re: #162 Targetpractice

I'm not sure what the prosecution has , but I would hope she is smart enough to understand that the whole world is watching. She has a reputation to loose if she tries this case without strong supporting evidence for murder 2.

176 palomino  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 9:58:02pm

re: #138 Targetpractice

I take his word because, at this point, that's all there is. Without it, I'm left with speculation, and that's not something upon which to convict a man for Murder 2 and possibly put him behind bars for life.

But his words thus far (on his finances, for example) include a number of proven lies.

So then why would you fully take his word on this?

177 palomino  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:01:20pm

re: #171 Targetpractice

Of course, that's why both sides in a case have to work the case in the media as well as in the courtroom. The difference is that the court of public opinion can't try, convict, and hang a man before he's ever had his day in court.

I don't think anyone is disputing that things should be that way.

178 Varek Raith  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:01:24pm

That poor horse....

179 Targetpractice  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:03:16pm

re: #172 palomino

Ohh, please, gimme a break. Did I even remotely suggest that Zim must be convicted of Murder 2 for this? I agreed with you that that charge is likely too harsh to stand up in court. On the other hand, do you feel justice has been served if Zim just walks? Does that send a positive message to the community?

This is precisely why there are lesser included offenses in many homicide trials. Murder 2's requirements may not be met, but a charge like reckless endangerment or negligent homicide may be appropriate in this situation. Why the DA didn't also file such charges I don't know.

What community are we talking here? Seriously, whose approval are we shooting for?

And why didn't Corey take this to a grand jury, as was planned, and secure an indictment that would have put much of this to rest?

180 Mich-again  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:03:42pm

re: #173 Targetpractice

Physical evidence can only tell you so much. It may show you where the fight started and where it ended, but can't tell you what was in the mind of the people fighting. And that's what a large part of the prosecution's case is gonna hinge on, trying to tell the jury what was going through the minds of George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin that night.

If by "what was going through the minds" you mean intent, there is enough there already. Intent to start a confrontation while carrying a loaded handgun.

181 Targetpractice  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:04:48pm

re: #176 palomino

But his words thus far (on his finances, for example) include a number of proven lies.

So then why would you fully take his word on this?

I don't take him fully at his word, I think his version of events are one-sided and slanted to put him in a favorable light. But still, do away with them and we're left with this big gap in the narrative between when he ended the call to the police and when the first eyewitnesses showed up.

182 prairiefire  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:06:43pm

re: #175 OhNoZombies!

I'm not sure what the prosecution has , but I would hope she is smart enough to understand that the whole world is watching. She has a reputation to loose if she tries this case without strong supporting evidence for murder 2.

I think she's sitting on some evidence. We shall see.

183 Digital Display  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:06:48pm

Hi Lizards! Late night post..
Still mulling over my top ten list of where Winston and I are moving to...
I'll be flying out this weekend to a potential home..It's a pretty exciting time for me...

184 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:07:05pm

I think that the truth died with the witness/victim.

185 blueraven  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:07:15pm

Zimmerman had several opportunities to identify himself as a neighborhood watch, and explain why he was following Trayvon.

Once when he was following him in his truck...he was on the phone with the police. He told the call taker, "he's coming toward me"
"He is looking right at me".
Zimmerman rolled up his window.

Then he said..."he is running away"
Later, he gets out of the truck (to get the street name he claims)

When asked by the police later why he didn't just identify himself to the kid when he came up to the the truck. Zimmerman said he was afraid.

Yet then he leaves the truck to follow him.

That makes no sense.

186 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:07:25pm

re: #183 Digital Display

Hi Lizards! Late night post..
Still mulling over my top ten list of where Winston and I are moving to...
I'll be flying out this weekend to a potential home..It's a pretty exciting time for me...

Gonna get a pool for Winston? I still remember seeing photos of him floating around.

187 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:07:36pm

re: #183 Digital Display

Over water? LOL! Hope all is well. Miss you!

188 b_sharp  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:07:50pm

re: #153 Varek Raith

Same reason I carry a sword wherever I go.

To slice tomatoes.

189 palomino  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:08:26pm

re: #179 Targetpractice

What community are we talking here? Seriously, whose approval are we shooting for?

And why didn't Corey take this to a grand jury, as was planned, and secure an indictment that would have put much of this to rest?

I think it's a bad idea to send the message to a community that armed civilian pursuit of non-suspects is something you can do without fear of punishment.

I have no idea about the DA's actions. But just look at the Duke rape case, the Kobe Bryant rape case, and hundreds of others where DA's botched their cases from the get-go. Some are stupid, some want to make a name for themselves, some just bow to public pressure.

190 Varek Raith  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:09:20pm

re: #183 Digital Display

Hi Lizards! Late night post..
Still mulling over my top ten list of where Winston and I are moving to...
I'll be flying out this weekend to a potential home..It's a pretty exciting time for me...

Beach front property on the moon for sale!

191 prairiefire  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:09:33pm

re: #183 Digital Display

Hi Lizards! Late night post..
Still mulling over my top ten list of where Winston and I are moving to...
I'll be flying out this weekend to a potential home..It's a pretty exciting time for me...

I am glad you are exploring the wider horizon! My 2 cents ~ I always think a person should go to Corfu, and the other Greek isles at least once.

192 b_sharp  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:09:54pm

re: #145 bluecheese

why the fuck you need a pistol to go to Target anyway?

Big gun make little boy feel like man.

193 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:11:30pm

re: #191 prairiefire

I am glad you are exploring the wider horizon! My 2 cents ~ I always think a person should go to Corfu, and the other Greek isles at least once.

I would like to put my kids through college, first. Actually, I don't believe I really have a choice.

194 freetoken  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:11:41pm

re: #183 Digital Display

Are you looking for a permanent place, in which to retire, or are you looking for a vacation home?

I ask because, as wonderful as some countries can be to visit or even in which to live for a while, as one gets older language barriers becomes more difficult. That's what I noticed in Japan.

195 Kragar  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:11:47pm

So the new Batman comes out this week, but all I can say is meh. It's just not grabbing me.

196 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:12:08pm

re: #175 OhNoZombies!

I'm not sure what the prosecution has , but I would hope she is smart enough to understand that the whole world is watching. She has a reputation to loose if she tries this case without strong supporting evidence for murder 2.

From what I've read the jury will have the option to convict on the lesser charge of manslaughter.

But prosecutors also chose not to undercharge Zimmerman by, say, accusing him of manslaughter, Nunn said. A manslaughter charge simply requires prosecutors to prove that the defendant's negligence caused the death, he said.

Nunn predicted that would prove to be a smart legal strategy, especially given the possibility that the case could be presented to jurors who are supporters of Florida's "stand your ground" law or who are sympathetic toZimmerman's plight.

"In a case like this, where you may have jurors who may view Mr. Zimmerman as a sympathetic character, you could run the risk of having a compromised verdict in the case," in which the jurors try to come up with a more palatable alternative to the charge in front of them, he said. "If the charge is manslaughter, a jury can only compromise downward from there."

But if jurors in a second-degree murder case want to show some leniency, they could convict him of manslaughter, he said.

197 R.M, Ramallo  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:12:37pm

Martin's family just didn't want questions surrounding their son's death to be swept under the rug. I think everyone can agree that Florida has some pretty ass backward laws, so who can blame them...
What I just don't get is why is Zim being held up as a hero to the right, and how the hell do they think a win for Zim is a loss for Obama?

198 Varek Raith  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:12:43pm

re: #195 Kragar

So the new Batman comes out this week, but all I can say is meh. It's just not grabbing me.

Rush sure is stoked.

199 b_sharp  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:13:07pm

re: #195 Kragar

So the new Batman comes out this week, but all I can say is meh. It's just not grabbing me.

Cause yer undies are too tight.

200 Kragar  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:13:43pm

re: #199 b_sharp

Cause yer undies are too tight.

I'm not wearing any...

201 palomino  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:13:50pm

re: #145 bluecheese

why the fuck you need a pistol to go to Target anyway?

I completely agree. But to the NRA, your question is an affront to the 2nd Amendment, which simply reflects our God-given right to have firearms on our person all the time, wherever we are.

202 Varek Raith  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:14:17pm

re: #201 palomino

I completely agree. But to the NRA, your question is an affront to the 2nd Amendment, which simply reflects our God-given right to have firearms on our person all the time, wherever we are.

WHY NOT SWORDS?!?!

203 palomino  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:14:25pm

re: #195 Kragar

So the new Batman comes out this week, but all I can say is meh. It's just not grabbing me.

Yeah, does it really need to be 3 hours long?

204 Mattand  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:15:13pm

re: #198 Varek Raith

Rush sure is stoked.

I'm still scratching my head over that one. As much as I don't like the guy, I can't believe he's stupid enough to think that Bane, the villain in the movie, is a dig at Romney's Bain.

The other option, of course, is he making up bullshit because he knows his core audience is a little light in the critical thought department.

Not sure which is worse.

205 Targetpractice  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:15:25pm

re: #189 palomino

I think it's a bad idea to send the message to a community that armed civilian pursuit of non-suspects is something you can do without fear of punishment.

Alternatively, what if O'Mara can make a solid case for self-defense and the jury still convicts? What message does that send? That if you defend yourself, you better hope that you're more sympathetic than the person you shot?

I have no idea about the DA's actions. But just look at the Duke rape case, the Kobe Bryant rape case, and hundreds of others where DA's botched their cases from the get-go. Some are stupid, some want to make a name for themselves, some just bow to public pressure.

Funny you bring those up, because I'm seeing a lot of the same elements here: A media that was eagerly running with whatever the victim or their family's lawyers were feeding them, local authorities who get demonized for not moving fast enough for the public's demands, a DA looking to cash in on national attention, and a defendant who the media can show in every negative light imaginable.

206 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:15:54pm

re: #201 palomino

I completely agree. But to the NRA, your question is an affront to the 2nd Amendment, which simply reflects our God-given right to have firearms on our person all the time, wherever we are.

...and for the right kind of people to exercise lethal force and not have to answer uncomfortable questions about it.

207 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:16:52pm

re: #202 Varek Raith

WHY NOT SWORDS?!?!

Abraham Lincoln was once challenged to a duel. The challengee gets to pick the weapon. He picked broadswords. In the 1850's.

I would guess he was hoping they couldn't find any. He probably thought dueling was stupid.

He was right.

208 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:16:59pm

re: #197 OhNoZombies!

Martin's family just didn't want questions surrounding their son's death to be swept under the rug. I think everyone can agree that Florida has some pretty ass backward laws, so who can blame them...
What I just don't get is why is Zim being held up as a hero to the right, and how the hell do they think a win for Zim is a loss for Obama?

Because wingnuts are insane.

209 Varek Raith  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:17:13pm

Bane's been around for two decades.
RETROACTIVE ATTACK!

210 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:17:25pm

re: #200 Kragar

I'm not wearing any...

TMI...

211 Digital Display  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:17:27pm

re: #186 SanFranciscoZionist

Gonna get a pool for Winston? I still remember seeing photos of him floating around.

You know what is ironic? One of my potential landing spots is in SF. I have a close friend I went to College with. She has a really nice flat in the City and is looking for a cool roommate. We always got along famously anbd I'll be there next weekend ( Gawd I love Frequent flyer milage..I'm burning it all up in the next 2 months)
I love the City and I can keep the property in Napa until the taxman comes and then sell it..And still come home..
I'm also considering moving to the middle of fricking nowhere..And I mean nowhere..I tire of the effen rat race sometimes..
It's o once in a lifetime opportunity * Smile*

212 Ming  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:17:36pm

re: #155 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't know what happened.

However, as I've said all along, it would not surprise me to learn that a teenage boy confronted a stranger who was trailing him.

And I'd be hard-pressed to say that was the wrong move, except that he ended up dead.

He had no way to know he wasn't going to end up dead either way.

Very good point! Thanks to the situation that Zimmerman created, any person who was being followed like that would have to wonder if his own life was on the line. Trayvon was a teenager in an impossible situation.

Like many other "public" cases, this case is unusual in that significant evidence happens to be in the public domain. We've all heard the 911 operator tell Zimmerman not to follow Martin, and we all know that Zimmerman continued to follow Martin. That's reckless endangerment right there. That should be jail time right there, even if nothing else can be proven.

So if a jury gives Zimmerman the benefit of the doubt in regard to the final few minutes of this tragedy, I can accept that. But as far as I'm concerned, there's already enough evidence in the public domain to convict Zimmerman on lesser charges.

213 Targetpractice  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:17:49pm

re: #197 OhNoZombies!

Martin's family just didn't want questions surrounding their son's death to be swept under the rug. I think everyone can agree that Florida has some pretty ass backward laws, so who can blame them...
What I just don't get is why is Zim being held up as a hero to the right, and how the hell do they think a win for Zim is a loss for Obama?

The Martin family may have wanted answers, but what does Crump want?

214 Mocking Jay  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:18:45pm

re: #209 Varek Raith

Bane's been around for two decades.
RETROACTIVE ATTACK!

I remember the comic where he was introduced.

And now I feel oh so old.

215 Mattand  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:19:13pm

re: #201 palomino

I completely agree. But to the NRA, your question is an affront to the 2nd Amendment, which simply reflects our God-given right to have firearms on our person all the time, wherever we are.

I had the NRA call me up during the 2010 election cycle ask me how I felt about Obama's European-style plan to restrict gun ownership in America. No lie, actual quote.

I told the guy it was the stupidest fucking thing I ever heard and hung up on him. I kind of wish I had kept him on the line, as he was yelling at me as I put down the receiver.

216 Varek Raith  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:19:19pm

[Link: dictionary.reference.com...]

Rush can't be that stupid....?
His audience is though.

217 blueraven  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:19:23pm

re: #213 Targetpractice

The Martin family may have wanted answers, but what does Crump want?

Maybe he wants justice

218 Mattand  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:19:52pm

re: #214 Mocking Jay

I remember the comic where he was introduced.

And now I feel oh so old.

I have it, sitting about 6 feet behind me. Wonder what it's worth?

219 Targetpractice  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:20:36pm

re: #217 blueraven

Maybe he wants justice

Guy's a personal injury/wrongful death attorney. If the case doesn't go to trial, he gets nothing.

220 palomino  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:21:45pm

re: #205 Targetpractice

Alternatively, what if O'Mara can make a solid case for self-defense and the jury still convicts? What message does that send? That if you defend yourself, you better hope that you're more sympathetic than the person you shot?

Funny you bring those up, because I'm seeing a lot of the same elements here: A media that was eagerly running with whatever the victim or their family's lawyers were feeding them, local authorities who get demonized for not moving fast enough for the public's demands, a DA looking to cash in on national attention, and a defendant who the media can show in every negative light imaginable.

Both extremes would send a terrible message to the community and possibly result in civil unrest. At this point, even a "compromise" verdict (manslaughter with a relatively short sentence) isn't going to satisfy many people. Whatever happens you can be assured the publicity surrounding the case will continue.

221 blueraven  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:22:45pm

re: #219 Targetpractice

Guy's a personal injury/wrongful death attorney. If the case doesn't go to trial, he gets nothing.

Oh so you give all kinds of benefit of the doubt to Zimmerman.
But Trayvons family lawyer is just in it for the money
He is a personal trial lawyer so fuck him.
He cant have any real honest motives here

Got it.

222 Targetpractice  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:22:51pm

re: #220 palomino

Both extremes would send a terrible message to the community and possibly result in civil unrest. At this point, even a "compromise" verdict (manslaughter with a relatively short sentence) isn't going to satisfy many people. Whatever happens you can be assured the publicity surrounding the case will continue.

Exactly, which is why I'm not worried about the social ramifications of this trial. Way I see it, nobody's gonna be happy by how it shakes out.

223 R.M, Ramallo  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:23:14pm

re: #213 Targetpractice

I have no reason to believe he has nothing but the best interests of the family at heart.
Trayvon was a kid. That changes the dynamic a bit.

224 Targetpractice  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:24:35pm

re: #221 blueraven

Oh so you give all kinds of benefit of the doubt to Zimmerman.
But Trayvons family lawyer is just in it for the money
He is a personal trial lawyer so fuck him.
He cant have any real honest motives here

Got it.

I don't think any of the lawyers in this have pure intentions. O'Mara's in it for the glory, same as Corey. Regardless of whoever wins, all are looking at fat book deals when this is over.

Why wouldn't I wonder why Crump has been so vigorous in fighting for this to go to trial if I didn't suspect him of have a personal interest rather than noble intentions?

225 Kragar  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:24:36pm

re: #218 Mattand

I have it, sitting about 6 feet behind me. Wonder what it's worth?

Depending on edition and quality, maybe a few hundred.

226 Ming  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:25:20pm

re: #212 Ming

So if a jury gives Zimmerman the benefit of the doubt in regard to the final few minutes of this tragedy, I can accept that. But as far as I'm concerned, there's already enough evidence in the public domain to convict Zimmerman on lesser charges.

I just thought of the felony murder rule, which makes me disagree somewhat with my own previous comment. With the felony murder rule, if you're driving the getaway car, and your accomplices murder someone in the store they're robbing, while you're waiting in the car, you can still be convicted of first-degree murder. The idea is that you made the murder possible, even though you obviously didn't commit the murder yourself.

In the same way, Zimmerman's reckless endangerment, which thanks to the 911 tapes is already in the public record, made Trayvon's death possible in the first place.

So I would modify my earlier comment a bit to say that if a jury gives Zimmerman the benefit of the doubt, in regard to those terrible final minutes or seconds with Trayvon, that may be reasonable for the jury to do, but nevertheless I think the penalty should still be much worse than the penalty for "only" reckless endangerment, because (as with the felony murder rule), the sentencing judge should consider that Zimmerman initiated the entire tragic situation in the first place.

227 b_sharp  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:25:44pm

re: #218 Mattand

I have it, sitting about 6 feet behind me. Wonder what it's worth?

With or without cat hair?

228 palomino  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:26:19pm

re: #215 Mattand

I had the NRA call me up during the 2010 election cycle ask me how I felt about Obama's European-style plan to restrict gun ownership in America. No lie, actual quote.

I told the guy it was the stupidest fucking thing I ever heard and hung up on him. I kind of wish I had kept him on the line, as he was yelling at me as I put down the receiver.

Just another of Obama's failed policies. //

If Obama really believed in Euro style gun control (a total disaster by the way, have you seen their murder rates? only about 75% lower than ours), why would he not push any of it in his first term, given the chance he'll be defeated in his re-election bid? If he had any such intention, he would have tried to implement it as quickly as possible, not wait over 4 years.

229 blueraven  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:27:04pm

re: #224 Targetpractice

I don't think any of the lawyers in this have pure intentions. O'Mara's in it for the glory, same as Corey. Regardless of whoever wins, all are looking at fat book deals when this is over.

Why wouldn't I wonder why Crump has been so vigorous in fighting for this to go to trial if I didn't suspect him of have a personal interest rather than noble intentions?

Um I dont know...you take Zimmerman at this word
Why not Mr Crump?

230 prairiefire  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:27:18pm

re: #211 Digital Display

Lots of good places to eat in SF.

231 palomino  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:27:40pm

re: #222 Targetpractice

Exactly, which is why I'm not worried about the social ramifications of this trial. Way I see it, nobody's gonna be happy by how it shakes out.

But if no one's happy, everyone will be pissed, which I see as a potential problem in an area with a history of racial tension and oppression. Maybe I'm just more pessimistic by nature.

232 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:27:53pm

re: #230 prairiefire

Greens! China Town!

233 palomino  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:29:36pm

Goodnite people. Be safe out there. Don't wear a hoodie, and stay away from retarded pseudo-cops.

234 Targetpractice  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:30:15pm

re: #229 blueraven

Um I dont know...you take Zimmerman at this word
Why not Mr Crump?

How 'bout I say I don't think either of them is telling the whole truth?

235 freetoken  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:33:12pm

Kansas Republicans war over "Ryan plan" style tax cuts

Fiscal conservatives in Kansas have turned their state into a laboratory to test reforms similar to the "Ryan plan" for massive tax cuts at the national level -- and the result has been a Republican civil war.

Backers of recent state tax cuts argue they will create jobs and boost the economy to partially offset lost revenue, with budget cuts solving the remaining shortfall. The tax cuts go into effect in January, and the Kansas Legislative Research Department calculates the lost revenue will amount to the equivalent of 36 percent of the state budget within five years.

Republican Governor Sam Brownback has described the reforms as a "real live experiment" that proponents want to see implemented at the national level.

Critics say there are few specifics on spending cuts. The same criticism is leveled by opponents of U.S. House Budget Committee Chairman Paul Ryan's "Path to Prosperity," which President Barack Obama has called "thinly veiled social Darwinism," arguing its spending cuts are vague and will hurt everything from education to low-income families and highways.

[...]

Moderate Republicans, who control the Kansas state Senate with Democratic help, argue that a tax-cut-fueled boom is a pipe dream and lost tax revenue will devastate schools, roads and basic services for the poor, as well as lead to the release of convicted felons.

[...]

Internecine warfare has led to a slew of challenges against moderate Kansas Republicans in the August 7 primary.

[...]


Moderate Republicans worry Kansas is a harbinger of problems for the party nationally. They fear conservatives could push the party too far right if they hold the House, take the Senate and win the presidency this November.

[...]

The law, passed in May amid much acrimony, removed the top state income-tax bracket and lowered the remaining two, as well as making some businesses, including limited liability companies, tax exempt.

"Whatever you want to call it, it's the Ryan plan," said University of Kansas's Loomis. "This is based on pure faith in supply side economics."

[...]

Moderates, who refer to themselves as "traditional Republicans," acknowledge they face a tough fight.

Some also complain about the influence of conservative oil and gas billionaire brothers Charles and David Koch, whose Koch Industries is based in Wichita and employs more than 2,900 people in Kansas. Together, the company and Koch family members contributed $60,000 to Brownback's campaign in 2009 and 2010, campaign filings show.

"The influence of Koch Industries is felt daily in this state," said Republican Senate President Steve Morris, who faces a conservative primary challenger. "The Senate is the last bastion of traditional Republicanism here. We're fighting for the heart and soul of Kansas."

[...]

Moderates like Morris fear conservatives generally could seriously damage the Republican Party.

"Conservatives here in Kansas have already over-reached," he said. "At the national level the party has to be careful it does not over-reach by cutting too many public services."

"People may wake up and punish the party."

Eventually, but only after the damage is done.

236 b_sharp  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:36:00pm

OK I've looked around but I can't find where Obama, Jackson, Sharpton or whomever claimed black kids are afraid of being killed by white folks. Stranahan most have gotten the idea from somewhere and I'd like to see what the context was so I can debunk his spin on race correlated murders.

Anyone remember what went on right after the Trayvon Martin shooting? Was there an uproar about black kids worrying about being killed?

237 freetoken  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:39:08pm

Romney checks off on another right wing talking point:

Romney lashes out at Obama on ‘Fast And Furious'

Republican presidential contender Mitt Romney lashed out Tuesday at President Obama for a lack of “transparency” in invoking executive privilege to withhold Operation Fast and Furious documents.

[...]

238 Digital Display  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:40:32pm

re: #230 prairiefire

Lots of good places to eat in SF.

You bet! It's really late so I can tell some stuff..Like..
One of my potential landing spots is in SF. I have a close friend I went to College with. She has a really nice flat in the City and is looking for a cool roommate. We always got along famously and I'll be there next weekend
I'm sitting here laughing about all our adventures years ago..We kind of grew up together and went to college together and caused some much trouble..Now we are responsible adults but jeez..It was fun in those days..
Our families were close so she was a sister and someone you protect like one.
True story..One night she called me and wanted a favor...What now?
I'm going out with this hot guy and I told him I'm a Doctor
Really? A Doctor..
Don't worry He'll never find out..I'll dump him soon enough..
A Doctor? What the hell do you want me to do?
Tonight..I'll be at ( Fancy freaking Napa Joint).. Page me..
Page you? So freaking what? Page you?
Page me about 5 times every couple of minutes..
Then what?
He'll know I keep getting paged..
So?
Call the restaurant and page Dr. So and so..It's an emergency...
I'll need to leave...
You are evil!
Yup.. I page you call at 8
I'm laughing my ass off at remembering those crazy days..

239 R.M, Ramallo  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:40:51pm

re: #236 b_sharp

They never said that. The issue is that black kids, specifically boys, are punished severely for things their white counterparts would get a slap on the wrist for. In other words boys will be boys vs. born-criminal thugs.

240 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:42:22pm

re: #222 Targetpractice

Exactly, which is why I'm not worried about the social ramifications of this trial. Way I see it, nobody's gonna be happy by how it shakes out.

I'm happy we're having a trial.

That's what I wanted.

241 Targetpractice  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:43:45pm

re: #237 freetoken

Romney checks off on another right wing talking point:

Romney lashes out at Obama on ‘Fast And Furious'

Leave it to Willard to jump on a bandwagon after it's already crashed and burned.

242 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:44:09pm

re: #226 Ming

I just thought of the felony murder rule, which makes me disagree somewhat with my own previous comment. With the felony murder rule, if you're driving the getaway car, and your accomplices murder someone in the store they're robbing, while you're waiting in the car, you can still be convicted of first-degree murder. The idea is that you made the murder possible, even though you obviously didn't commit the murder yourself.

In the same way, Zimmerman's reckless endangerment, which thanks to the 911 tapes is already in the public record, made Trayvon's death possible in the first place.

So I would modify my earlier comment a bit to say that if a jury gives Zimmerman the benefit of the doubt, in regard to those terrible final minutes or seconds with Trayvon, that may be reasonable for the jury to do, but nevertheless I think the penalty should still be much worse than the penalty for "only" reckless endangerment, because (as with the felony murder rule), the sentencing judge should consider that Zimmerman initiated the entire tragic situation in the first place.

But that really depends on what the jury ends up believing,or if the case even gets in from of a jury. I've said it before and I'll say it again: Speculation is of distinctly limited value in this case. There are a great many remaining unknowns, and some of them are likely to always be either unknowns or things for which we have only George Zimmerman's account of events to go by.

243 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:44:32pm

re: #236 b_sharp

OK I've looked around but I can't find where Obama, Jackson, Sharpton or whomever claimed black kids are afraid of being killed by white folks. Stranahan most have gotten the idea from somewhere and I'd like to see what the context was so I can debunk his spin on race correlated murders.

Anyone remember what went on right after the Trayvon Martin shooting? Was there an uproar about black kids worrying about being killed?

Kind of. I remember reading a couple of pieces by black writers around that time about having 'the talk' with their kids about how to interact safely with cops and authority figures in general so as not to get hurt.

That, I think, was what Derbyshire was trying to parody in his awful piece--that was his version of 'the talk' with his kids.

I can see how someone with a certain...slant...might have taken offense at those articles.

'Uproar' is not the word I would use.

244 b_sharp  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:46:41pm

re: #239 OhNoZombies!

They never said that. The issue is that black kids, specifically boys, are punished severely for things their white counterparts would get a slap on the wrist for. In other words boys will be boys vs. born-criminal thugs.

Those are my thoughts too, but if I blog about how much of an ass Stranahan is, I don't want to get caught with my pants down.

245 freetoken  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:46:46pm

re: #241 Targetpractice

Leave it to Willard to jump on a bandwagon after it's already crashed and burned.

There's no outrage so outrageous that it cant' be reused.

246 Targetpractice  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:47:24pm

re: #245 freetoken

There's no outrage so outrageous that it cant' be reused.

A Republican that believes in recycling. Never thought I'd see the day.

247 Targetpractice  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:49:14pm

re: #240 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm happy we're having a trial.

That's what I wanted.

It's what I thought I wanted early on too. But now, all I see is a case that should have gone to a grand jury, where Corey could have had a chance to try again if she couldn't get an indictment with what's available. As is, if he gets acquitted at trial, or it gets tossed during pre-trial due to SYG, that's it. There's no second chances.

248 b_sharp  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:50:27pm

re: #243 SanFranciscoZionist

Kind of. I remember reading a couple of pieces by black writers around that time about having 'the talk' with their kids about how to interact safely with cops and authority figures in general so as not to get hurt.

That, I think, was what Derbyshire was trying to parody in his awful piece--that was his version of 'the talk' with his kids.

I can see how someone with a certain...slant...might have taken offense at those articles.

'Uproar' is not the word I would use.

Thanks.

I've gotten so fed up with the right I've decided to start blogging about their dishonesty.

249 freetoken  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:55:01pm

Let's just admit it - the GOP is now fully gone over the ledge with these guys:


250 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 10:57:48pm

re: #249 freetoken

Bullshit. The Republican party has some crazies in it, but it still has many sane people. And even the crazies still aren't within five miles of the crazy that is the Birchers.

251 prairiefire  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 11:01:23pm

re: #247 Targetpractice

Concern troll is concerned.

252 freetoken  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 11:01:50pm

re: #250 Dark_Falcon

Doesn't who is "in" the "party", the extremists have taken over the agenda.

253 R.M, Ramallo  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 11:02:46pm

I've already stayed up waaay past my bed time, so good night and don't let the Birchers bite --'cause they have rabies !!!

254 Targetpractice  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 11:03:29pm

re: #251 prairiefire

Concern troll is concerned.

Excuse me? Run that by me again.

255 prairiefire  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 11:07:20pm

re: #254 Targetpractice

Sorry, I'm being sarcastic. I think the GZ justification train has left the station. It will be a heck of a trail.

256 Targetpractice  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 11:12:30pm

re: #255 prairiefire

Sorry, I'm being sarcastic. I think the GZ justification train has left the station. It will be a heck of a trail.

Yeah, well I'll be perfectly honest, as it stands right now, I think this case going to trial will be a very unpleasant experience, because that sweet cherub of a child that the media's got folks convinced was the real Trayvon Martin? Yeah, that's gonna be gone by the wayside after the first week. Hell, all the evidence we've seen so far is just what the prosecution has turned up. I imagine the defense is gonna unearth more than a few skeletons before this ever goes to the SYG hearing.

257 prairiefire  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 11:15:10pm

re: #256 Targetpractice

Yes, it will be interesting after the first week of trail. Especially after relevant facts are presented.
Night, lizards.

258 Mattand  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 11:17:15pm

re: #250 Dark_Falcon

Bullshit. The Republican party has some crazies in it, but it still has many sane people. And even the crazies still aren't within five miles of the crazy that is the Birchers.

Problem is the sane people are either too scared to say anything, or are perfectly content to let the crazies run the ship.

259 Targetpractice  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 11:23:52pm

re: #257 prairiefire

Yes, it will be interesting after the first week of trail. Especially after relevant facts are presented.
Night, lizards.

Unfortunately, in a case like this, who the defendant is and who the decedent was are relevant facts. The prosecution's focused on proving that the defendant is a half-cocked dipshit with a hero complex who may have racist tendencies. The defense is focused on proving that the decedent was a violent thug who attacked the defendant with the intention of killing him.

That's the bad thing about murder trials, they tend to be places where everybody's dirty laundry gets aired out, if only to score points in the court of public opinion.

260 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 11:29:04pm

Goodnight, all.

261 freetoken  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 11:36:16pm

Bill O’Reilly Threatens To Retire If His Taxes Go Up – Again!

[...]

He’s rolling the dice on the economy because his vision could very well fail. And if all of these things got passed, the economy could just collapse because the achievers basically saying, ‘I’m not going to invest any more money.’ I certainly would not invest at the level that I am now. With a 40% hit on anything that I make, I’m just pulling it back. I’m puttin’ it in the Caymans, I’m puttin’ it in Switzerland, I’m puttin’ it some place else. I’m not puttin’ it in here.

[...]

Yet another fervently patriotic American, I see.

262 Targetpractice  Tue, Jul 17, 2012 11:46:11pm

Think I'll bow out as well. Need at least a few hours sleep. BBL.

263 AK-47%  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 12:01:51am

re: #261 freetoken

Bill O’Reilly Threatens To Retire If His Taxes Go Up – Again!

Yet another fervently patriotic American, I see.

The logic is this: America = Free Enterprise.

Therefore anything that interferes with (their idea of) Free Enterprise is un-American.

264 AK-47%  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 12:04:01am

re: #250 Dark_Falcon

Bullshit. The Republican party has some crazies in it, but it still has many sane people. And even the crazies still aren't within five miles of the crazy that is the Birchers.

I wish that were true. But by remaining silent, the "sane people" allow the crazies to run the show.

The wingnuts could not keep Romney off the ballot, but if he is elected, they will tie his hands so thoroughly that he has to give into them on every issue to accomplish anything.

They equivocate obstructionism with "ideological purity".

265 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 12:29:43am

re: #264 Expand Your Ground

I wish that were true. But by remaining silent, the "sane people" allow the crazies to run the show.

Let's be honest, even the sane people still in the GOP are floating in a sea of cognitive dissonance and abject selfism. They're want to run the government like a business, that they'll never allow to grow, that never increases it's revenue and that they clearly hate. They care about fetuses intensely but not at all about poor families struggling with childcare, healthcare, and who need supplementary food aid. They care about tax cuts for "job creators" but don't do anything to create jobs because unemployment is a number used to beat up the opposition. They consider defense spending sacrosanct but advance offensive foreign policies. They're afraid of the government abrogating their rights while advocating torture.

The GOP is at this point a psychological repository for people's worst drives and dysfunctional inability to adapt to a changing society. The ideologies it champions are almost universally revanchist, atavistic, reactionary and stupid.

266 freetoken  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 12:39:05am

As radio became more dominant the old stars had to make room for the new ones... and this guy rocketed to the top, eventually pushing aside even Al Jolson. From 1931:

267 AK-47%  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 12:40:31am

re: #265 goddamnedfrank

And there have been enough examples of them trying to reach out to Muslims and Latinos and finding themselves slapped down by their own party members, who fail to realize that they are losing out on a major demographic.

And we saw how Mitt put those uppity blacks in their place: "Go vote for the other guy if you want free stuff!"

Bush found his own immigration reform blocked by his own party, and anything vaguely Muslim evinces such a knee-jerk reaction among Republicans that they will not touch the party.

Which is odd, because all of these groups are solidly into the sort of "family values" that the GOP likes to champion.

268 researchok  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:20:35am

Morning, all

269 researchok  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:25:05am

re: #266 freetoken

Great lyrics like these are becoming distant memories.

TY

270 freetoken  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:26:28am
271 Kragar  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:32:01am

re: #269 researchok

Great lyrics like these are becoming distant memories.

TY

Some people still know how to do it.

272 researchok  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:35:43am

re: #270 freetoken

My kind of fusion

273 researchok  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:41:05am

re: #271 Kragar

Outstanding- and Favorited.

Thanks for that

274 Kragar  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:46:54am
275 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 3:14:35am

Another Obama ad out. People reading Romney's painfully convoluted statement on Bain.

276 The Ghost of a Flea  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 3:52:21am

Here Is How You Do Your Non-Apology Apology For Fried-Chicken-Related Racist Facebook Posts, GOP

The offending post:

Just wanted to let you know — today I received my 2012 Social Security Stimulus Package. It contained two tomato seeds, cornbread mix, a prayer rug, a machine to blow smoke up my butt, 2 discount coupons to KFC, an “Obama Hope & Change” bumper sticker, and a “Blame it on Bush” poster for the front yard. The directions were in Spanish. Watch for yours soon

And the apology:

I totally regret that some members of the Democratic party were offended by the satirical post on this page yesterday. There were some that commented on the post that they did not see how the possibly inflammatory comments were anything other political commentary. This page is not the original author and the intent was to show the author’s frustration at the current economic situation that he/she finds themselves in.

I realize now that there are those that were deeply offended and for that I am very saddened and I will make sure that our editoral process will result in posts to our pages that reflect the spirit of good natured political discussions. My hope is that we can get back to the critical dialog necessary to move Vermont and the US back towards economic prosperity.

It's not a good thing when your party has a crazy wing and a grifter wing, both afloat in a gelatinous medium of spineless people that will pretend nothing's going wrong and that it's important to support the home team no matter what.

277 A Mom Anon  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 4:08:15am

re: #103 sagehen

Sen Stabenow from Michigan tried to get legislation through the senate that would have removed the tax incentives given to companies who move overseas and given those incentives to companies who bring jobs in. Republicans wouldn't allow it to move forward. I watched this unfold on CSPAN and it was all I could do not to throw something at the TV. Was it on the news? Nope? In the papers? Nope. Hell,I didn't even know there were fucking REWARDS for companies packing up and leaving the country until I saw that. You have to be freaking kidding me.

278 dragonath  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 4:17:05am

I missed this story yesterday:

SOUTH CAROLINA HOUSE OVERRIDES GOVERNOR’S VETO OF RAPE CRISIS CENTER FUNDING

The vote was unanimous.

279 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 4:55:11am

Morning Lizardim. A round of storms blew through last night to help cool things down a little bit. We're supposed to get another round to keep the temperatures somewhat less blistering. I, for one, welcome our new cumulonimbus overlords. What's new here among the warriors against derp?

280 simoom  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 5:12:02am

The Romney camp let's on that Senior Adviser John Sununu wasn't freelancing when he essentially called the President a shiftless, foreign, socialist, pot smoker and that this message is actually approved campaign strategy:

[Link: www.buzzfeed.com...]

... the Republican's campaign is now prepared to go eye for an eye in an intense, no-holds-barred act of political reprisal, said two Romney advisers who spoke on condition of anonymity. In the next chapter of Boston's pushback — which began last week when they began labeling Obama a "liar" — very little will be off-limits, from the president's youthful drug habit, to his ties to disgraced Chicago politicians.

"I mean, this is a guy who admitted to cocaine use, had a sweetheart deal with his house in Chicago, and was associated and worked with Rod Blagojevich to get Valerie Jarrett appointed to the Senate," the adviser said. "The bottom line is there'll be counterattacks."

The reference to Obama's past drug use seems to suggest that former New Hampshire Governor John Sununu wasn't going off-script after all when he dinged the president for spending "his early years in Hawaii smoking something" during a Tuesday morning Fox News appearance.

...

Romney surrogates will place increased emphasis in coming days on the "Fast and Furious" gun-running scandal at the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms, hoping to drag the story back into the headlines, and highlight questions about the the Obama campaign's transparency, the Romney adviser said.

To Recap what Sununu said yesterday on Fox:

"He has no idea how the American system functions, and we shouldn't be surprised about that, because he spent his early years in Hawaii smoking something, spent the next set of years in Indonesia, another set of years in Indonesia, and, frankly, when he came to the U.S., he worked as a community organizer, which is a socialized structure, and then got into politics in Chicago. There has been no experience in his life in which he's earned a private sector paycheck that meant anything."

281 Shropshire_Slasher  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 5:14:21am

Man Claims ‘World’s Largest Penis’ Got Him Frisked At SFO
[Link: sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com...]
Men always lie about their wang size, he was smuggling some choice Polish Kielbasa!

282 Shropshire_Slasher  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 5:27:56am

Man contracts the bubonic plague from a cat bite. Warning, graphic images, I guess that is why they call it black death. I didn't want breffist anyway.
[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]

283 Eventual Carrion  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 6:04:14am

re: #261 freetoken

Bill O’Reilly Threatens To Retire If His Taxes Go Up – Again!

Yet another fervently patriotic American, I see.

Then he better stay off my motherfucking roads and bridges. And don't call my fire dept. or police to fucking help you you fucking mooching leech. Pay your fair share for it or don't use it.

284 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 6:09:47am

re: #283 RayFerd

Then he better stay off my motherfucking roads and bridges. And don't call my fire dept. or police to fucking help you you fucking mooching leech. Pay your fair share for it or don't use it.

Hey, at least he didn't threaten to go all Freeman on the Land. Although that would've been highly amusing to watch.

285 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 6:34:40am

From the Department of Stuff LGF Already Knows:

Drudge linked to conspiracy websites 184 times in the last year

A ThinkProgress study of the the Drudge Report reveals the popular internet aggregator has linked 184 times to InfoWars and World Net Daily, two sites that promote the internet’s worst conspiracy theories, since June 2011. By directing millions of visitors to these websites, Drudge is providing critical financial and reputational support to publications that argue 9/11 was an inside job, FEMA is building concentration camps and President Obama was not born in the United States.

Despite his support for paranoid conspiracy theorists, Drudge has received frequent praise from the media and political right. Mark Halperin, senior political analyst for Time Magazine and MSNBC, has called Drudge “the Walter Cronkite of his era,” advising “you can’t refresh Drudge too often.” Politico co-founder John Harris recently called Drudge Report’s influence on the political debate “a real achievement.” During this year’s campaign, Mitt Romney singled out Drudge as one of his favorite websites, and posted an online video of himself reading the Drudge Report on his iPad.

286 lawhawk  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 6:36:30am

Greets and saluts from the sweltering NYC metro area, which is going to bake today with a high likelihood of t-storms this afternoon.

Yet, the news of the day is that Assad's inner circle was devastated when a suicide bomber managed to strike at a meeting of defense ministers, killing the Defense minister, deputy defense minister and others. Among the dead is one of Assad's brothers-in-law.

It's a huge blow against the regime, and a major success for the opposition, which has been fighting with the regime in and around Damascus for the past couple of days. Those killed are among the people responsible for the violent and brutal crackdown that has led to this point.

Where does Syria go from here? I figure that Assad will intensify the crackdown, since that's all he knows how to do. Russia keeps saying that they're not going to prop up Assad, but they are by blocking any action at the UN and by not offering up a golden parachute to allow Assad exile as an alternative to a bloody end. The opposition will see their ranks swell as more defections occur and they take the fight to the regime.

I just don't have any kind of timeframe for what will happen. The situation in Yemen might be analogous, but that would assume that Assad would be willing to step down and cede power and he's shown no willingness to do so.

287 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 6:36:57am

re: #261 freetoken

Bill O’Reilly Threatens To Retire If His Taxes Go Up – Again!

Yet another fervently patriotic American, I see.

If my taxes go up, I'm going to quit my job as a professional bloviator and sit around doing nothing for the rest of my life, totally out of the public eye!

I fail to see the down side.

288 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 6:41:38am

WaPo's factchecker on Romney's new ad: 4 Pinocchios for an unproven Romney claim of ‘crony capitalism’

Romney’s phrasing has too many weasel words. An ordinary listener would believe that Obama paid off a contributor to build cars in Finland with U.S. taxpayer money, with no hope of U.S. jobs being created. But the Kleiner partner behind the deal mostly backs Republicans, and the U.S. loans were used to create jobs in the United States.

We usually give some credit for a semblance to the truth, but the net effect of Romney’s words are too much.

289 iossarian  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 6:43:20am

re: #288 Killgore Trout

Balance is restored in the universe.

290 Interesting Times  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 6:46:15am

re: #286 lawhawk

Yet, the news of the day is that Assad's inner circle was devastated when a suicide bomber managed to strike at a meeting of defense ministers, killing the Defense minister, deputy defense minister and others. Among the dead is one of Assad's brothers-in-law.

Is it wrong of me to call this the first time a suicide bomber has done something good?

291 erik_t  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 6:46:29am

re: #289 iossarian

Balance is restored in the universe.

Well, balance is the end deliverable of FactCheck.

/

292 simoom  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 7:13:53am

re: #288 Killgore Trout

WaPo's factchecker on Romney's new ad: 4 Pinocchios for an unproven Romney claim of ‘crony capitalism’

The other piece to this is the only reason it's even possible for the Romney camp to put forward conspiracies about "bundler payoffs" is because the Obama Campaign in both 2008 (and presently) follow the long standing precedent of disclosing presidential campaign bundlers -- a standard the the Romney campaign is refusing to follow.

Then there's this:

BuzzFeed Politics: In 2006, Romney Filled Most Administration Appointments With Donors

The Romney campaign has begun to allege "crony capitalism" in President Obama's Administration, with one advisor, Ed Gillespie, saying "if you're a political donor to Barack Obama, you're going to do fine, because you're going to get a payoff."

But a review of the Romney's own 2006 appointees to Massachusetts posts — conducted by cross-referencing press releases with a Romney donor database — show Romney himself has a history of rewarding donors with political postions. Indeed, all but one of Romney's 2006 press releases for appointments are for Romney donors, a total of 15 out of 17 appointees.

One example cited is Romney's current senior campaign advisor Eric Fehrnstrom:

In November [2006], Romney attempted to appoint longtime aide and current advisor Eric Fehrnstrom to the Brookline Housing Authority. The postion would have put Fehrnstrom in line for a pension worth several hundred thousand dollars, and Fehrnstrom had recently bought back into the state pension system. After a public outcry, Fehrnstorm resigned the post.

293 Amory Blaine  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 7:16:29am

But 2006 was so long ago. /

294 simoom  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 7:25:04am

re: #293 Amory Blaine

But 2006 was so long ago. /

Actually you know what I overlooked... Romney clearly wasn't responsible as he'd left to campaign nationally most of that year (just as various Bain happenings are excused by his senate run and later the Olympics). ///

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Romney spent a considerable amount of time giving political speeches in key primary battleground states. Romney traveled the country during the 2006 election cycle to campaign for gubernatorial candidates as chairman of the Republican Governors Association, spending over 200 days outside Massachusetts.

295 Obdicut  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 7:25:26am

re: #292 simoom

It's the old Rovian technique, of accusing your opponent of your own weaknesses. I'm not sure how well it's going to work this go-round, though. I think Romney struggles a lot with trust, even from his supporters.

296 erik_t  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 7:29:57am

re: #294 simoom

Actually you know what I overlooked... Romney clearly wasn't responsible as he'd left to campaign nationally most of that year (just as various Bain happenings are excused by his senate run and later the Olympics). ///

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

If only Bush had thought to blame the Iraq war on a retroactive brush-clearing trip to Crawford.

297 lawhawk  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 7:32:37am

re: #16 Prideful, Arrogant Marriage Equality Advocate

The accusations go to character; and could come into play if Zimmerman's lawyers use character evidence of good standing in the community. If the defense opens the door, the prosecution could present these claims. I don't think the defense will go that route, but it is a possibility.

The accuser's claims have to be taken and considered for what they are - did Zimmerman really do what is alleged? Were there charges filed? Are they spurious claims? That too has to be weighed here.

Still, outing the accuser's name and background is the lowest-of-the-low and opens her up to another round of abuse, this time from the media and right wing that has taken up Zimmerman's cause. There was no reason to name names, and other media outlets were rightfully holding back on the name.

Put another way, would Stranahan out the names of Sandusky's accusers - including the latest bunch that now brings the abuse back to the 1970s? There's a reason that the media doesn't name names - doing so would limit those who have been abused from coming forward.

Fact remains is that Martin was being followed by Zimmerman when the altercation occurred and Zimmerman shot him to death; Martin was under no duty to retreat either (how's that for use of stand your ground). So, it is possible that neither Martin nor Zimmerman were under a duty to retreat and both could stand their ground. Tragic doesn't begin to cover the situation.

While the right keeps claiming that the prosecutors are ginning up a bogus case against Zimmerman and all kinds of prosecutorial misconduct, the fact is that there should have been an investigation and better conduct by those looking at the case from the outset; the outcome may still be that Zimmerman gets the benefit of SYG, but by skipping the process, they ignored the real possibility that Zimmerman did kill Martin in cold blood.

298 darthstar  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 8:08:38am

Mornin' everyone...Kudos to the Romney team for message control.

299 Obdicut  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 8:09:30am

Woot. My wife just got her score back on the USMLE Step 1 exam: 257. She's so freaking smart.

300 wrenchwench  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 8:11:00am

re: #275 goddamnedfrank

Another Obama ad out. People reading Romney's painfully convoluted statement on Bain.

[Embedded content]

"It says 'entity' a lot."

And he's talking about a person. So cold.

301 darthstar  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 8:11:29am

Not that Latinos will be allowed to vote in states like Arizona this year...but a 70-22 margin isn't exactly promising for the GOP...

[Link: miamiherald.typepad.com...]

302 Interesting Times  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 8:13:44am

re: #300 wrenchwench

"It says 'entity' a lot."

And he's talking about a person. So cold.

Corporations are people. Human beings are entities. #Mittspeak2012

303 darthstar  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 8:13:56am

re: #300 wrenchwench

"It says 'entity' a lot."

And he's talking about a person. So cold.

304 darthstar  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 8:15:18am

re: #302 Interesting Times

Corporations are people. Human beings are entities. #Mittspeak2012

Not to say that ads write themselves, but in this case, it really did.

305 wrenchwench  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 8:18:00am

re: #303 darthstar

[Embedded content]

That's almost as good as being able to tweet a comment.

306 darthstar  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 8:18:57am
307 Shropshire_Slasher  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 8:20:49am

re: #306 darthstar

Only suckers pay income tax.

308 danarchy  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 8:22:38am

re: #283 RayFerd

Then he better stay off my motherfucking roads and bridges. And don't call my fire dept. or police to fucking help you you fucking mooching leech. Pay your fair share for it or don't use it.

Isn't it ok to argue about what a "fair share" is without being called a fucking mooch? Bill is one of those rich guys who probably still makes most of his income as income so already pays the highest marginal rate plus his state and local taxes in NY which are some of the highest in the country. I am not saying his taxes shouldn't be higher, but he has a right to complain about it if he already feels he is paying a fair share. And even in retirement he'll still be contributing more in absolute terms than most, certainly that gets him at least the right to use the roads?

309 darthstar  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 8:23:48am

TPM - Anatomy of a Flail

Changing the subject is a hallmark of a flailing campaign. Republicans routinely accuse Obama of doing the exact same thing when he focuses on Bain instead of the weak economic reports. But the attacks floated by the Romney team this week — some old, some new — are impressive for their sheer magnitude and speed.

Here’s a rough list of alternative issues the Romney campaign has dangled in front of the press since Thursday, when Romney’s SEC filings became the dominant campaign story.

My favorite was Mitt demanding an apology and Obama saying, "No." Effective attack with a diss on top.

311 Kronocide  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 8:27:38am

re: #310 lawhawk

O'Keefe's busy again. This time in upstate NY with a video purporting to show shovel-ready green jobs aren't.

Oooh! Gotcha.

Some green jobs are bullshit.

So are most undercover video journalist jobs.

312 Eventual Carrion  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 8:28:24am

re: #308 danarchy

Isn't it ok to argue about what a "fair share" is without being called a fucking mooch? Bill is one of those rich guys who probably still makes most of his income as income so already pays the highest marginal rate plus his state and local taxes in NY which are some of the highest in the country. I am not saying his taxes shouldn't be higher, but he has a right to complain about it if he already feels he is paying a fair share. And even in retirement he'll still be contributing more in absolute terms than most, certainly that gets him at least the right to use the roads?

No.

313 R.M, Ramallo  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 8:29:53am
314 Someone Please Beam Me Up!  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 8:29:55am

re: #102 Mocking Jay

Watching Colbert and just learned of this story:

In Nevada, 'None' a Fearsome Foe for the GOP

lol

None of the Above more attractive than Romney.

lololol

Just caught Colbert myself, and he followed that with commentary on the Texas Republican platform plank opposing critical thinking. Our lives are poorer when he and his friend are on hiatus.

315 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 8:31:12am

I'm just surprised they have yet to say what kind of counter-tops she has. This has been a wingnut tactic for a long time and is down right disgusting.

316 Obdicut  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 8:31:14am

re: #308 danarchy

To complain about it, sure. To talk about moving the money out of the US-- well, sure, but there goes any claims to patriotism on his part.

317 danarchy  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 8:31:20am

re: #312 RayFerd

No.

And this is the problem with partisanship today...as bad as a tea party-er in the other direction.

318 brennant  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 8:31:43am

re: #313 OhNoZombies!

That is a funny story. She handled it well. She could use it for some humor, and protect that person as well..

319 Obdicut  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 8:32:18am

re: #317 danarchy

Another devotee of the magical balance fairy.

No, things are not equal in partisanship today.

320 darthstar  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 8:33:14am

I hate when this happens.

[Link: blog.sfgate.com...]

Jonah Falcon, 41, who has been featured in several documentaries about the world’s biggest penises, was returning from a trip in San Francisco on July 9 when he was stopped at security by TSA agents who spotted something out of the ordinary hanging to the left in his pants, he said.

321 [deleted]  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 8:33:25am
322 iossarian  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 8:34:48am

re: #319 Obdicut

Another devotee of the magical balance fairy.

No, things are not equal in partisanship today.

One side: the earth was created 6,000 years ago, dinosaurs never existed, and any attempt to have people collaborate and work together to achieve things they cannot do alone is the work of Satan.

The other side: maybe people who benefit massively from civilization should throw a few extra percent in the pot to help sustain said civilization (oh, and dinosaurs did actually exist).

Same thing!

323 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 8:34:49am

re: #317 danarchy

Taxes are based on percentages not overall amounts. Mitt Romney paid 15% of his income in taxes last year. I pay around 27.5% which is nearly twice that. I could use that money in my pocket but he is paying less. If you are saying that that is right, or somehow fair for him to pay less than I do, as a percentage of income, then that is pure bullshit.

324 Shropshire_Slasher  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 8:35:00am

re: #320 darthstar

I made the mistake of googling him, I feel...insignificant.

325 lawhawk  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 8:36:01am

re: #320 darthstar

326 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 8:36:31am

Breaking:

327 [deleted]  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 8:36:55am
328 Kronocide  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 8:37:56am

re: #322 iossarian

One side: the earth was created 6,000 years ago, dinosaurs never existed, and any attempt to have people collaborate and work together to achieve things they cannot do alone is the work of Satan.

The other side: maybe people who benefit massively from civilization should throw a few extra percent in the pot to help sustain said civilization (oh, and dinosaurs did actually exist).

Same thing!

Balance Fairy > Balance Ninja

329 Shropshire_Slasher  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 8:38:54am

re: #327 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

What about the new tone!? Bullseye!

330 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 8:39:25am

re: #326 Learned Mother of Zion

Breaking:

[Embedded content]

3 Killed as Israeli Tourists Bus Explodes in Bulgaria - Report
3 dead, 20 injured. My guess is it's the Iranians again.

331 Kronocide  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 8:40:34am

Romney is running an impressive Shovel Dump Truck Dumpster Ready campaign

332 danarchy  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 8:41:15am

re: #319 Obdicut

Another devotee of the magical balance fairy.

No, things are not equal in partisanship today.

Never said they were. But if someone is unwilling to even discuss the possibility that fair is a subjective term it is no better than the Nordquist devotees who are unwilling to entertain even the notion of raising taxes.

It's clear the GOP is off the rails, but it doesn't mean the rest of us can't still try to be adults. I'm tired of people invoking the magical balance fairy any time they get any criticism. Just because the other guys are insane it isn't license to behave like a jerk.

333 lawhawk  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 8:41:46am

re: #326 Learned Mother of Zion

Damn... just damn. JPost reporting that this may have been a mechanical malfunction, not a bomb.

Still, this comes a few days after a YNet indicated that Hizbullah/Iran's proxies was looking to expand its terror operations to countries in Eastern Europe, including Bulgaria as well as places like Cyprus.

334 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 8:42:01am
335 A Mom Anon  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 8:42:11am

re: #313 OhNoZombies!

Bwahahaha! That was awesome.

336 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 8:43:28am

re: #332 danarchy

It's clear the GOP is off the rails, but it doesn't mean the rest of us can't still try to be adults. I'm tired of people invoking the magical balance fairy any time they get any criticism. Just because the other guys are insane it isn't license to behave like a jerk.

Try not to take it too seriously. It's just the way things are and not much can be done about it. It's usually a hollow accusation anyways. Kinda like "concern troll", it's just how some people react to information they don't want to hear.

337 lawhawk  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 8:44:34am

re: #333 lawhawk

Even the Haaretz story has two versions of events and what happened:

Several Israelis were killed and wounded on Wednesday in a terror attack on a tour bus in the Burgus airport in Bulgaria, local media reported.

An Israeli who witnessed the event said that one of the buses that carried Israelis across terminals in the airport blew up and went up in flames.

Tour bus or a people mover on the airport grounds? If it's the latter and it was indeed a bomb, then security protocols at the airport were breached - a major concern.

338 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 8:45:52am

Bus carrying Israel tourists explodes at Bulgaria airport, at least three dead: reports

Initial reports say the bus was still inside the terminal at Sarafovo Airport.

339 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 8:46:02am

re: #337 lawhawk

Even the Haaretz story has two versions of events and what happened:

Tour bus or a people mover on the airport grounds? If it's the latter and it was indeed a bomb, then security protocols at the airport were breached - a major concern.

I can't find an original news source, just a bunch of tweets and retweets.

340 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 8:46:30am

re: #337 lawhawk

Even the Haaretz story has two versions of events and what happened:

Tour bus or a people mover on the airport grounds? If it's the latter and it was indeed a bomb, then security protocols at the airport were breached - a major concern.

Might be a freak accident with jet fuel or something?

341 lawhawk  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 8:48:40am

re: #340 Killgore Trout

Don't know about freak accident with jet fuel, but who knows. We wont know until more detailed reports come out. Maybe even video from airport surveillance recordings or someone on site shooting video.

342 dragonfire1981  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 8:49:24am

Rush Limbaugh: "Dark Knight Rises" villain Bane is a dig at Mitt Romney

"Do you think it is accidental that the name of the really vicious fire-breathing, four-eyed whatever-it-is villain in this movie is named Bane?" Limbaugh lamented on his syndicated radio show today.

Stuff like this makes my inner geek go nuts.

Amazingly, Rush is suggesting that the Batman writers who first created Bane in 1993 had such incredible foreknowledge that they did so on purpose just to stick one to Mitt Romney while he was running for President nearly 20 YEARS LATER.

I already knew Rush was an idiot, but this is undeniable proof.

The article notes Romney/Bane jokes have spread throughout the internet lately, I myself posted a side by side of them along with copy advertising a fake deathmatch. Someone else posted a link showing Romney's face photoshopped into the Bane movie costume.

BUT, it's just a matter of timing. The Romney/Bain stuff is current news and the Batman movie just so happens to open this weekend.

It is NOT, as Limbaugh so stupidly suggests, some crazy Liberal conspiracy to hurt Mitt Romney.

What is with some of these right wingers and seeing conspiracies everywhere?

343 iossarian  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 8:49:39am

re: #336 Killgore Trout

Try not to take it too seriously. It's just the way things are and not much can be done about it. It's usually a hollow accusation anyways. Kinda like "concern troll", it's just how some people react to information they don't want to hear.

I was actually having a discussion about this in meatspace yesterday, about how lots of people want to believe that they are moderate and centrist, and how this has basically enabled the right to destroy much of what was ever "moderate" about America over the past 30 years.

I compared the current need to actively oppose the lunatic right in America to the abandonment of conscientious objection by a lot of thinkers (e.g. Bertrand Russell with his Relative Political Pacifism) during WWII.

I think what America needs at the moment is a large deal of Relative Political Moderation. Moderate Centrism with the balls to recognize that the GOP wants to turn us in to an evangelical protestant version of Iran combined with the oligarchical despotism of 21st century Russia.

344 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 8:49:47am

Morning all!

I never heard of this breed of horse before. Absolutely beautiful!

How are you?

345 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 8:50:20am

re: #313 OhNoZombies!

beat me to it LOL

346 Obdicut  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 8:53:12am

re: #332 danarchy

Never said they were. But if someone is unwilling to even discuss the possibility that fair is a subjective term it is no better than the Nordquist devotees who are unwilling to entertain even the notion of raising taxes.

Not really. Taxation isn't about fairness.

It's clear the GOP is off the rails, but it doesn't mean the rest of us can't still try to be adults. I'm tired of people invoking the magical balance fairy any time they get any criticism. Just because the other guys are insane it isn't license to behave like a jerk.

I don't think that criticizing Bill O'Reilly for threatening to move his money offshore if he has to pay higher taxes is being a jerk. Do you really think so?

347 Interesting Times  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 8:53:48am
348 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 8:54:40am

I'm not sure this will work if you aren't signed-on to facebook, but I can't think any other way to show it.

GOP and Rush talking about cutting funding to Planned Parenthood like the posts aren't public.

This takes you to the NARAL page--you have to scroll down to post showing Rep Danny Rehberg's FB posting.

How else could I have done this?

349 danarchy  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 8:56:15am

re: #323 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

Taxes are based on percentages not overall amounts. Mitt Romney paid 15% of his income in taxes last year. I pay around 27.5% which is nearly twice that. I could use that money in my pocket but he is paying less. If you are saying that that is right, or somehow fair for him to pay less than I do, as a percentage of income, then that is pure bullshit.

Yea I pay around 27% myself. I also have some investments that I pay 15% on. If you want to discuss having a progressive capital gains rate, that's a valid discussion, but it is pretty evident that raising the capital gains rate too high just pushes people to other investments that are taxed differently like municipal bonds or structured settlements etc. Pursuing fairness at the cost of revenue doesn't seem particularly prudent to me.

350 R.M, Ramallo  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 8:57:14am

Before the adults can have a productive and sane conversation, it has been a standard practice for the adults to send the kids outside to play...
Until the GOP sends their kids out to play Tea Party the grown ups won't be able to get anything done.
I suggest they lock 'em up in the basement to hide their shame.
Sharia law infiltrators infiltrating in Tennessee...

351 Interesting Times  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 8:57:30am

re: #348 ggt

I'm not sure this will work if you aren't signed-on to facebook, but I can't think any other way to show it.

GOP and Rush talking about cutting funding to Planned Parenthood like the posts aren't public.

This takes you to the NARAL page--you have to scroll down to post showing Rep Danny Rehberg's FB posting.

Is this what you mean?

Image: 8084_10151033569694321_1554331070_n.jpg

99% sure it's satire, though one certainly can't be blamed for getting Poe Law'd by it (do we need a new term, "spoof but accurate"?)

352 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 9:00:14am

More reports trickling in...
Three killed in airport bus blast

THREE people have been killed and more than 20 injured in a blast on a bus at Bulgaria's Black Sea airport, the interior ministry said, with reports saying the vehicle had Israelis on board.

"Three people were killed and over 20 injured," an interior ministry press officer said, adding that "their nationality is yet to be determined".

An explosion rocked one Israeli-packed bus at the Black Sea airport, state BNR radio reported, adding that two more buses also caught fire.

353 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 9:02:15am

Death Toll in Bulgaria Terror Blast Reported at 5

Five people have died in powerful blast has ripped through a bus parked at Burgas airport on the Bulgarian Black Sea coast, carrying Israeli tourists, according to a report.

The BGNES news agency's reporter has clarified that the information about the number of casualties is still unofficial.

Bulgarian Interior Minister Tsvetan Tsvetanov told AFP that the victims were three. Many others are injured.

The Interior Ministry says the blast was a terror attack.

The bus exploded on one of the Burgas airport's parking lots, near the terminal for arrivals a little after 5:00 pm local time.

354 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 9:03:20am

re: #351 Interesting Times

Is this what you mean?

Image: 8084_10151033569694321_1554331070_n.jpg

99% sure it's satire, though one certainly can't be blamed for getting Poe Law'd by it (do we need a new term, "spoof but accurate"?)

spoof but accurate! I love it.

Thanks for the gif.

355 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 9:03:34am

Haarets now says 7 causualties

356 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 9:04:59am

Nelson Mandela turning 94 today.

Happy Birthday, Sir!

357 danarchy  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 9:08:22am

re: #346 Obdicut

Not really. Taxation isn't about fairness.

I don't think that criticizing Bill O'Reilly for threatening to move his money offshore if he has to pay higher taxes is being a jerk. Do you really think so?

Eh, I'll criticize him when he actually does it. Bombast and hyperbole are his job. Also, with Bill's interviewing style he will say I a lot even when he is talking in generalities(Remember the 'I want to go into a gay bath house!' thing?)

Remember in 2003 when all those hollywood folks threatened to leave the country if Bush got re-elected. People say things all the time to illustrate how strongly they feel about something without actually doing it.

Calling someone a "fucking mooch" is almost always being a jerk.

358 GunstarGreen  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 9:11:24am

re: #138 Targetpractice

I take his word because, at this point, that's all there is. Without it, I'm left with speculation, and that's not something upon which to convict a man for Murder 2 and possibly put him behind bars for life.

But apparently it is something upon which to shoot a kid and definitely put him in the ground forever.

George Zimmerman's actions resulted in the death of an unarmed teenager. A death that hinged entirely on his decision to be a creeper with a gun. There is no hindsight here, this isn't something that is clear after the fact -- he was being a complete creeper, following a kid for absolutely no reason, after having been explicitly instructed not to do so by the police, and then got out of his truck with a gun to continue pursuing the kid. These are facts, they are not in dispute, and they are not things that normal, well-adjust people do. It is his fault. Putting him behind bars for life is pillow-treatment compared to what Trayvon got.

359 Obdicut  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 9:16:17am

re: #357 danarchy

Eh, I'll criticize him when he actually does it. Bombast and hyperbole are his job.

But his job is being a deceitful, lying asshole. So that is kind of criticism-worthy, don't you think?

360 danarchy  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 9:17:03am

re: #346 Obdicut

Not really. Taxation isn't about fairness.

I agree, It shouldn't be, but then why do I keep hearing this refrain about everyone "paying their fair share"?

361 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 9:17:28am

I just love this quote:

The entire Trayvon Martin / George Zimmerman story was amped up into a national story on purpose by President Obama with the help of his surrogate Al Sharpton in order to help win the 2012 election.

because the crime of walking while black isn't newsworthy in 2012.

/gah

362 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 9:20:42am

OMG! I almost forgot.

I listened to a book about Genghis Khan. Quite interesting BTW.

Anyway the author said that one of the myths about about how Genghis died is that HE TOOK AN ARROW TO THE KNEE.

I nearly fell off my chair.

363 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 9:21:03am

Oh, this morning I saw a lovely little commercial on MSNBC urging people to contact congress to prevent the end of the dividend tax cut. Because, as we all know, ending that will hurt the job creators.

364 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 9:21:26am

re: #362 ggt

OMG! I almost forgot.

I listened to a book about Genghis Khan. Quite interesting BTW.

Anyway the author said that one of the myths about about how Genghis died is that HE TOOK AN ARROW TO THE KNEE.

I nearly fell off my chair.

Ok, that is freaking hilarious!

365 Obdicut  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 9:21:54am

re: #360 danarchy

I agree, It shouldn't be, but then why do I keep hearing this refrain about everyone "paying their fair share"?

Because people think taxation is about fairness, even though it isn't.

But if you agree, why'd you say "I am not saying his taxes shouldn't be higher, but he has a right to complain about it if he already feels he is paying a fair share."?

366 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 9:25:24am

7:13 P.M.: Burgus Mayor Dimitar Nikolov says explosives were placed in the trunk of the bus.

367 danarchy  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 9:25:27am

re: #365 Obdicut

Because people think taxation is about fairness, even though it isn't.

But if you agree, why'd you say "I am not saying his taxes shouldn't be higher, but he has a right to complain about it if he already feels he is paying a fair share."?

Context of the conversation we were having. And frankly, he has the right to complain about his taxes for whatever reason he wants. Complaining about taxes is as American as baseball and apple pie.

368 Someone Please Beam Me Up!  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 9:30:47am

re: #342 dragonfire1981

Rush Limbaugh: "Dark Knight Rises" villain Bane is a dig at Mitt Romney

Stuff like this makes my inner geek go nuts.

Amazingly, Rush is suggesting that the Batman writers who first created Bane in 1993 had such incredible foreknowledge that they did so on purpose just to stick one to Mitt Romney while he was running for President nearly 20 YEARS LATER.

I already knew Rush was an idiot, but this is undeniable proof.

The article notes Romney/Bane jokes have spread throughout the internet lately, I myself posted a side by side of them along with copy advertising a fake deathmatch. Someone else posted a link showing Romney's face photoshopped into the Bane movie costume.

BUT, it's just a matter of timing. The Romney/Bain stuff is current news and the Batman movie just so happens to open this weekend.

It is NOT, as Limbaugh so stupidly suggests, some crazy Liberal conspiracy to hurt Mitt Romney.

What is with some of these right wingers and seeing conspiracies everywhere?

Do you remember the "title of second LOTR movie (The Two Towers) is a cynical ploy to take advantage of the 9/11 tragedy" story?

369 iossarian  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 9:33:18am

re: #367 danarchy

Complaining about taxes is as American as baseball and apple pie.

Nation of shopkeepers whiners.

370 GunstarGreen  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 9:35:51am

re: #368 Washed-Up-Clowns 'R' Us!

Do you remember the "title of second LOTR movie (The Two Towers) is a cynical ploy to take advantage of the 9/11 tragedy" story?

Now I'm not saying that hardcore right-wingers are uncultured slobs, buuuuut...

371 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 9:37:57am

re: #370 GunstarGreen

Now I'm not saying that hardcore right-wingers are uncultured slobs, buuut...

maybe illiterate morans...

372 Obdicut  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 9:40:21am

re: #367 danarchy

Context of the conversation we were having. And frankly, he has the right to complain about his taxes for whatever reason he wants. Complaining about taxes is as American as baseball and apple pie.

Okay, since nobody was arguing that he didn't have a right to complain, why did you bring up 'rights'?

Edit: Not that this is your fault, but it's a really irritating habit of poor argument, to suddenly invoke the right to do something as though anyone has argued against it, when they haven't.

Seriously, dude, I can't tell for the life of me what your argument is. O'Reilly, an asshole who makes millions and millions of dollars by being an asshole, is bloviating about moving his money to offshore accounts if his taxes go up.

People are criticizing him for this.

So what is your problem, exactly, that leads you to say that criticism of that is equivalent to the tea partiers?

373 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 9:43:38am

George Lopez calls Sheriff Joe a Bitch.

Youtube from the Young Turks.

374 Obdicut  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 9:44:59am

In other news, the US Army has finally admitted that the digitized camo it was using was a fucked-up mistake.

[Link: www.thedaily.com...]

375 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 9:45:32am

re: #368 Washed-Up-Clowns 'R' Us!

Do you remember the "title of second LOTR movie (The Two Towers) is a cynical ploy to take advantage of the 9/11 tragedy" story?

Image: Bane_DC_Comics_Character.png
Anyone who can photoshop Romney's head on this or Tom Hardy's body will get my everlasting gratitude.

376 Kragar  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 9:47:48am

re: #375 HappyWarrior

Image: Bane_DC_Comics_Character.png
Anyone who can photoshop Romney's head on this or Tom Hardy's body will get my everlasting gratitude.

Image: Bane-Romney-300x225.jpg

377 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 9:48:39am

re: #376 Kragar

Image: Bane-Romney-300x225.jpg

Sweetness.

378 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 9:49:03am

re: #376 Kragar

Image: Bane-Romney-300x225.jpg

My first impression is that it was a black face hugger from the Alien movies.

ahhhhhhhhhhhh!

379 jaunte  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 9:49:15am

re: #375 HappyWarrior

But please, no cacti.

380 darthstar  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 9:49:39am

Pageworthy:

The vast, flat expanse stretching into the background is the Petermann Glacier, well over one-third of which has now broken off. It connects the Greenland ice sheet to the Arctic Ocean.

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

381 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 9:50:01am

Rush is also claiming that Obama hates this country and his philosophy only appeals to those "with meaningless lives and people who don't count." Yes America this is the man that Republican candidates are so afraid of offending. A man who says those who vote for someone he disagrees with which could well be over half of the country come November don't count.

382 Kragar  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 9:50:08am
383 Coracle  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 9:51:55am

Hollywood in the Tank For Obama.
Just look at the rest of the upcoming releases before election ELECTION WEEK, no less:

The Man With the Iron Fist: Kickass Black Man saves the day.
Wreck it Ralph: (R)alph and (R)omney will WRECK US ALL!

384 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 9:52:58am

re: #375 HappyWarrior

Image: Bane_DC_Comics_Character.png
Anyone who can photoshop Romney's head on this or Tom Hardy's body will get my everlasting gratitude.

There was a photoshop yesterday in Gawker, I did not click on it, which combined the new Batman character with a popular NSFW internet meme.

385 lawhawk  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 9:53:19am

re: #374 Obdicut

Part of the problem is that the Army tried to come up with a one-design fits all scenario's camo design, and it ended up being suitable for none.

I expect that the new designs will be tailored to the environment where they'll be deployed - jungle/desert/urban/winter. So, they'll probably end up with 3 or 4 camo designs.

And the unified camo design was meant to be a cost-saver.

386 Eventual Carrion  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 9:54:46am

re: #357 danarchy

[snip]

Calling someone a "fucking mooch" is almost always being a jerk.

Fuck off. Jerk enough for ya?

387 Obdicut  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 9:55:17am

re: #385 lawhawk

Yep. The new designs will have a unifying element-- the digital pattern format itself-- but different colorations. There are still going to be things that are just colored whatever for every environment, but hopefully just the small stuff.

A friend of mine who was a recon dude goddamn hated the camo we had now.

388 danarchy  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 9:55:25am

re: #372 Obdicut

Criticizing is one thing, frothing at the mouth in anger is different.

389 Obdicut  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 9:58:31am

re: #388 danarchy

Criticizing is one thing, frothing at the mouth in anger is different.

But people are frothing at the mouth about Bill O'Reilly, who is a professional asshole who is saying completely hypocritical, whiney, spoiled bullshit. The Tea Partiers are frothing at the mouth about Obama, usually based on complete lies and fabrication.

You see no difference?

390 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 10:01:55am

[Link: i.crackedcdn.com...]
I know people who actually use this as proof that Matt Groening and the writers of the Simpsons knew about 9/11. They also believe the episode where Mr. Burns becomes like Howard Hughes and the germs on his body say "Freemasons rule the country" is proof of Groening's complicity in the grand Freemason conspiracy.

391 Kragar  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 10:05:51am

Tennessee Tea Partiers To GOP Gov: Stop Employing Muslims, Gays, Democrats!

Conservatives and Tea Party activists in Tennessee have recently pushed several Republican Party county organizations to pass resolutions criticizing the state’s Republican governor for, among other things, employing Muslims, gay people, and Democrats.

“The action or actions of the Republican elected Governor of the Great State of Tennessee and his administration have demonstrated a consistent lack of conservative values,” a resolution passed by the Stewart County Republican Party reads in part, according to a copy obtained by The Tennessean. (The Tennessean obtained two of the resolutions.)

392 Interesting Times  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 10:07:27am

re: #391 Kragar

Tennessee Tea Partiers To GOP Gov: Stop Employing Muslims, Gays, Democrats!

But someone on this thread said mean things about Bill O'Reilly, so it all balances out. Derp.

393 danarchy  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 10:09:25am

re: #389 Obdicut

But people are frothing at the mouth about Bill O'Reilly, who is a professional asshole who is saying completely hypocritical, whiney, spoiled bullshit. The Tea Partiers are frothing at the mouth about Obama, usually based on complete lies and fabrication.

You see no difference?

Sure there is a difference but in practice it is completely unproductive on either side. Justifying bad behavior by pointing as worse behavior is silly. And anyone who happens to be in the middle or undecided is likely to be turned off by someone who come across as unhinged, regardless of rightness or wrongness.

394 GunstarGreen  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 10:11:01am

re: #391 Kragar

Tennessee Tea Partiers To GOP Gov: Stop Employing Muslims, Gays, Democrats!

It's all about the economy, see? We'll fix unemployment by firing everyone that's not a straight white christian republican male.

These people breed, and they vote. Think about that for a few minutes. Let it sink in.

395 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 10:14:48am
396 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 10:16:26am

re: #395 HappyWarrior

Only concerned about the economy huh.

Yeah, I love that one!

Because we can't be economically sound until . . . .

Just like, I can't get sober until . . . . .

397 Kragar  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 10:17:41am

re: #395 HappyWarrior

Only concerned about the economy huh.

Once you get rid of the undesirables, their jobs become open for the better classes.
///

398 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 10:19:37am

re: #397 Kragar

Once you get rid of the undesirables, their jobs become open for the better classes.
///

Complaints of Unfair competition? from Free Market Capitalism advocates?

say it isn't so . . . .

399 Kragar  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 10:19:49am

Ellison Calls Bachmann’s Evidence Of Muslim Brotherhood Conspiracy ‘16 Pages Worth Of Nothing’

On Anderson Cooper’s CNN show last night, Ellison responded to Bachmann’s latest salvo, saying her accusations were “simply scare-mongering” and compared her quest to root out Muslim Brotherhood infiltrators to Sen. Joe McCarthy’s infamous witch-hunt for Communist agents. Ellison went on::

COOPER: You asked for a full accounting of the evidence these members of Congress were using to make their claims. You got a 16- page letter back. Does their evidence hold up?

ELLISON: No, it’s 16 pages worth of nothing. It’s 16 pages worth of repeated false allegations. Just regurgitated nonsense. And, you know, it doesn’t — 16 pages doesn’t take nothing and turn it into something. It’s still nothing…

COOPER: Have you seen any evidence of “deep penetration” — that was the words that Congressman Bachmann used — “deep penetration” by the Muslim Brotherhood into the security apparatus of the United States?

ELLISON: No, it’s not true. It doesn’t exist. It’s a phantom.

400 R.M, Ramallo  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 10:24:13am

Watching Romney's campaign press secretary on Andrea Mitchell...
If he wants to win, I think he needs to hire a new staff because they seem very ameturish.
Their body language says "...hell, I'm not even buying this..."

401 lawhawk  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 10:24:59am

Israeli Prime Minister blames Iran for the blast in Bulgaria that killed at least three Israelis on vacation there. It follows repeated attempts to attack Israelis in other countries around the world in the past few months. At least 7 are now reported dead, and YNet indicates that it was a suicide bomber.

According to media reports, a suicide bomber boarded one of three buses shuttling Israeli tourists across the terminal at around 5:30 pm and then detonated an explosive vest. Bulgarian media said 44 people were on the vehicle at the time of the explosion.

The Foreign Ministry has formed a team of experts that will fly to Burgas and assist local authorities in the investigation.

The Israeli Embassy in Sofia has been mobilized and is ready to assist the team, which includes ZAKA disaster recovery officials, in identifying the victims and ensuring that the injured and other Israelis that were unharmed return to Israel as soon as possible.

402 Kragar  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 10:29:55am

re: #400 OhNoZombies!

Watching Romney's campaign press secretary on Andrea Mitchell...
If he wants to win, I think he needs to hire a new staff because they seem very ameturish.
Their body language says "...hell, I'm not even buying this..."

For some one running on his business acumen, he's certainly surrounded himself with a bunch of twits.

403 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 10:31:54am

I'm outta here.

Have a great afternoon all!

404 Kragar  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 10:33:43am

Someone has been reading too much Drudge...

Romney’s New Plan To Go After Obama’s Biography Is A Gamble

Republican activists have long complained that their leaders are too timid in going after President Obama. For better or for worse, they may finally get their dream campaign.

Romney surrogate John Sununu raised eyebrows Tuesday by bringing up President Obama’s teenage marijuana use and suggesting his time in Indonesia as a child may have given him a muddled sense of America. But subsequent reports suggest it was no accident, as the Romney campaign preps a more personal line of attack against the president.

Unamed aides to Romney told both Buzzfeed and NBC that they plan to step up their game, possibly including attacks on Obama’s biography that have up to this point been solely the domain of right-wing media.

405 lawhawk  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 10:35:52am

Oh, and for those keeping tabs and wondering if there's anything to Bibi's warning about Hizbullah/Iran's involvement in the Bulgarian bombing attack, today marks the 18th anniversary of the Buenos Aires bombing of a Jewish community center that killed 85.

406 darthstar  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 10:36:37am

re: #404 Kragar

Someone has been reading too much Drudge...

Romney’s New Plan To Go After Obama’s Biography Is A Gamble

Romney should try calling Obama the N word...maybe that will make him look more classy than he already does.
/

407 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 10:38:18am

Looks like Mitt is finding out that running against a sitting POTUS is a different game than running within the GOP against the likes of Newt, Bachmann, Santorum, Perry and Cain.

408 Kragar  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 10:38:59am

One guy smoked a little weed in HS.

The other guy had his buddies assault a fellow student so they could hold him down and forcibly cut his hair and got away with it because of daddy's money.

Does Mitt really want to go there?

409 darthstar  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 10:39:44am

No surprise there.

410 The Ghost of a Flea  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 10:40:36am

Romney Camp To Take Up Breitbart’s Torch In Obama Vettening

“[Romney] has said Obama’s a nice fellow, he’s just in over his head,” [a Romney] adviser said. “But I think the governor himself believes this latest round of attacks that have impugned his integrity and accused him of being a felon go so far beyond that pale that he’s really disappointed. He believes it’s time to vet the president. He really hasn’t been vetted; McCain didn’t do it.”

I'm acting in self defense, therefore I can do anything to destroy my opponent and not be called out for hijinks or bullshit.

I love that Romney being "nice" is Romney condescending that Obama is incompetent and out of depth.

Also the kabuki performance whereby the ugly dogwhistle-y shit said by Romney allies like Donald Trump don't count in this grand tabulation of wrongs done.

411 R.M, Ramallo  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 10:40:45am

re: #404 Kragar

Ametures. That stuff is water under the bridge.

re: #406 darthstar

Romney should try calling Obama the N word...maybe that will make him look more classy than he already does.
/

May as well since his only consistant argument is " at least I'm not the black guy..."

412 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 10:40:58am

If they go after Obama's personal life, that's only to be worse. Polls have long shown that most people even some of those who don't approve of his policies like him as a person. The only people who will like this line of attack are Romney's base.

413 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 10:42:01am

Well, that didn't take long at all:

414 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 10:44:31am

re: #410 The Ghost of a Flea

Romney Camp To Take Up Breitbart’s Torch In Obama Vettening

I love that Romney being "nice" is Romney condescending that Obama is incompetent and out of depth.

Also the kabuki performance whereby the ugly dogwhistle-y shit said by Romney allies like Donald Trump don't count in this grand tabulation of wrongs done.

Yeah it's a load of crap. Romeny has outright said he wants an amendment that would disqualify someone like Obama from the job simply because he doesn't have "business experience." As if business experience is the end all. I think that's one of the things that annoys me the most about Mitt Romney. It's this idea he has that only those who work in business understand how things work. Romney's a condescending asshole.

415 Kragar  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 10:45:47am

Fischer: It Was Liberals who Opposed the Fight for Civil Rights

Ladies and gentlemen, who was it that abolished the institution of slavery? It was the Republican Party, it was a Republican President, it was a conservative who abolished the institution of slavery.

Who was it that filibustered the Civil Rights Acts in the Sixties? It was liberals, it was progressives. It was conservative Republicans that voted in greater percentages that voted for the Civil Rights Act then Democrats did.

Who where the ones that were standing hosing people off with fire hoses? Those were Democrats, those were liberals that were doing that.

Because everyone knows that 60 years ago, all the Republicans were conservatives and all the Democrats were liberals.
///

416 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 10:48:00am

re: #415 Kragar

Fischer: It Was Liberals who Opposed the Fight for Civil Rights

Because everyone knows that 60 years ago, all the Republicans were conservatives and all the Democrats were liberals.
///

And if Bryan Fischer had been around 50 years ago, he'd be claiming that Civil Rights was a Communist plot. Really it takes a lot of revisionist balls to claim that the Civil Rights Movement was championed by conservatives and opposed by conservatives. If you told those opposed to Civil Rights that they were liberals, they'd laugh at you.

417 Targetpractice  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 10:48:42am

re: #410 The Ghost of a Flea

Romney Camp To Take Up Breitbart’s Torch In Obama Vettening

I love that Romney being "nice" is Romney condescending that Obama is incompetent and out of depth.

Also the kabuki performance whereby the ugly dogwhistle-y shit said by Romney allies like Donald Trump don't count in this grand tabulation of wrongs done.

Because really, what better way to convince people that you're above the sort of "dirty politics" you accuse your opponent of engaging in than to get down into the mud yourself?

418 GunstarGreen  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 10:49:30am

re: #415 Kragar

Fischer: It Was Liberals who Opposed the Fight for Civil Rights

Because everyone knows that 60 years ago, all the Republicans were conservatives and all the Democrats were liberals.
///

People are still parroting this preposterous line? Pretending that the political parties in the US have been unchanged for nearly a hundred years?

I'm not sure which is worse. That Fischer believes that the public is stupid enough to continue falling for this tired old game, or that there are in fact some people that are that stupid.

419 R.M, Ramallo  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 10:51:30am

re: #415 Kragar

But the truth is so inconvenient!

420 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 10:51:35am

And of course Fischer wants us to ignore the fact that conservative heroes like Goldwater and Reagan ran opposition to the Civil Rights Act of 1964 but no let's revise history to where the liberals are always the bad guys and the conservatives are always the good, white knights.

421 Kragar  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 10:52:52am

re: #418 GunstarGreen

People are still parroting this preposterous line? Pretending that the political parties in the US have been unchanged for nearly a hundred years?

I'm not sure which is worse. That Fischer believes that the public is stupid enough to continue falling for this tired old game, or that there are in fact some people that are that stupid.

If the Bible can stand unchanged for centuries after being handed down by God, the political parties surely can't change much in a few decades.
/

422 Amory Blaine  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 10:54:04am

re: #416 HappyWarrior

And if Bryan Fischer had been around 50 years ago, he'd be claiming that Civil Rights was a Communist plot. Really it takes a lot of revisionist balls to claim that the Civil Rights Movement was championed by conservatives and opposed by conservatives. If you told those opposed to Civil Rights that they were liberals, they'd laugh at you.

Right wing pockets are deep and peoples attention spans are short.

423 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 10:55:38am

What a freaking douche.

424 The Ghost of a Flea  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 10:55:41am

re: #417 Targetpractice

Because really, what better way to convince people that you're above the sort of "dirty politics" you accuse your opponent of engaging in than to get down into the mud yourself?

Well...I know you're being sarcastic, but--I'd say hanging out with a crook and mountebank like Trump while sidestepping his birther and racist statements is the better way.

425 Amory Blaine  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 10:56:17am

re: #423 Learned Mother of Zion

Freakin' moran.

426 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 10:56:59am

Takes a special kind of delusion to keep on going at this after you've been proven a fool. Way to go, Donald.

427 Targetpractice  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 10:57:44am

re: #424 The Ghost of a Flea

Well...I know you're being sarcastic, but--I'd say hanging out with a crook and mountebank like Trump while sidestepping his birther and racist statements is the better way.

That's what I'm getting at, Romney's spent the longest time accusing Obama of engaging in "dirty politics" while he's run false ads, palled around with lying dipshits like Trump, and generally done everything possible to sling shit the Obama campaign without outright doing any of it.

It's a might like his approach to Bain and the governorship: "If you can't prove I had a personal hand in it, then you can't blame me for it."

428 The Ghost of a Flea  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 10:58:31am

re: #426 HappyWarrior

Takes a special kind of delusion to keep on going at this after you've been proven a fool. Way to go, Donald.

It's The Donald. It's probably a scam rather than a delusion. Or at least a 50/50 ratio of scam and delusion.

429 Amory Blaine  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 10:58:41am

re: #427 Targetpractice

Eddie Haskell!!

430 GunstarGreen  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 10:58:42am

re: #426 HappyWarrior

Takes a special kind of delusion to keep on going at this after you've been proven a fool. Way to go, Donald.

All the more proof that wealth is accrued by those smart and honest and worthy people that really earned it, right?

431 R.M, Ramallo  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 10:58:54am

Today, I give McCain the thumbs up. I think deep down, he has some principles.
McCain slams Bachmann on the floor of the Senate...

432 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 10:59:05am

Heck Romney ran with the small businesses thing. It's almost as Mitt's message is "It's okay if I distort the president's words but he needs to apologize to me for telling the American people that I am not actually a job creator." Guy's a real piece of work. He really is a sad man when push comes to shove.

433 R.M, Ramallo  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 11:00:19am

re: #432 HappyWarrior

That's what happens when one is not used to opposition, or competition. IMHO

434 The Ghost of a Flea  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 11:00:30am

re: #427 Targetpractice

It's a might like his approach to Bain and the governorship: "If you can't prove I had a personal hand in it, then you can't blame me for it."

Well said.

435 wrenchwench  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 11:00:58am

re: #404 Kragar

Someone has been reading too much Drudge...

Romney’s New Plan To Go After Obama’s Biography Is A Gamble

They'll never admit it, but they've hired Limbaugh to manage Romney's campaign.

436 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 11:01:13am

re: #431 OhNoZombies!

Today, I give McCain the thumbs up. I think deep down, he has some principles.
McCain slams Bachmann on the floor of the Senate...

Good on McCain. Too bad Gaffney will probably now accuse him of being a MB member. The awesome thing Keith Elliison did was use statements by the ACU no less to point out how absurd the accusation was. Bachmann is clearly on the end of her career and she feels the need to go out with a bang. Would love to see her retired from having any political influence. Sure, it would mean if she loses that she'd go on Fox or some crap like that but it's better than having her in actual power.

437 The Ghost of a Flea  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 11:05:48am

How Romney Spent All Day Calling Obama A Foreigner

Birtherism Lite is the new campaign strategy.

438 GunstarGreen  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 11:08:04am

re: #431 OhNoZombies!

Today, I give McCain the thumbs up. I think deep down, he has some principles.
McCain slams Bachmann on the floor of the Senate...

I posted in a thread yesterday, about how I didn't understand how folks can stay engaged with American politics and not explode with rage? This is one of those moments. I'm actually seeing red here.

Nobody in that room, nobody, had the guts to stand up and say "This is a load of horseshit, we already went through this crap with McCarthy and it is insulting to these congresspeople, this institution, and this nation to try to repeat it with a modern twist." Even McCain, who was extraordinary in at least having the moxy to say "This is a bunch of crap", couldn't bring himself to outright call it for what it is, "This is McCarthyism 2.0 and Representative Bachmann is unfit for this position."

So. Much. RAGE.

439 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 2:14:48pm

re: #435 wrenchwench

They'll never admit it, but they've hired Limbaugh to manage Romney's campaign.

THAT'S IT!! There's who will get the profit out of playing "The Producers" model with the GOP campaign to see it fail miserably. Four more years of easy pickings on what to rant about and get and keep ratings and the money rolling in.
/


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