Maddow: Egyptians Protest Clinton Based on Glenn Beck

Middle East • Views: 34,137

Rachel Maddow had a segment on at the end of her show last night that made me facepalm into a headdesk worthy of Olympic gold. Apparently the people of Egypt protested Hillary Clinton (and the U.S.), believing that the U.S. was responsible for the Muslim Brotherhood winning the election for president in that country.

Who led them to believe this? Michele Bachmann, Frank Gaffney, and Glenn Beck. Take it away Rachel:

MSNBC Video

Jump to bottom

192 comments
1 Destro  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 9:45:04am
Apparently the people of Egypt protested Hillary Clinton (and the U.S.) in Egypt believing that the U.S. was responsible for the Muslim Brotherhood winning the election for president in that country. Who led them to believe this? Michele Bachmann, Frank Gaffney, and Glen Beck. Take it away Rachel:

No, the Copts and secularists are really scared and they see the USA not acknowledge their fears (cause it goes against the Obama spin on the election results).

2 dragonfire1981  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 12:48:39pm

And this is where the truth goes to die...

You talk to certain people and they are convinced that sources like Beck, Twitchy, Fox News, Limbaugh and WND are telling the truth and that everyone in the corrupt, liberal mainstream media is lying through their teeth.

If everyone on both sides is spinning, than truth is forever lost.

3 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 12:49:45pm

Proof that people like Beck, Gaffney, and Bachmann are actually harming America's image overseas with their moronic conspiracy theories.

4 dragonfire1981  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 12:51:25pm

re: #3 Charles Johnson

Proof that people like Beck, Gaffney, and Bachmann are actually harming America's image overseas with their moronic conspiracy theories.

How soon until one (or more) of these entities is responsible for serious bloodshed?

We got close with the California Highway patrol incident.
We practically got THERE with the Norway Massacre.

But I fear more violence driven by questionable theories will be forthcoming, possibly sometime after Nov. 6...

5 Gus  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 12:56:29pm

Sorry to go OT but it's kind of related:

6 darthstar  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:03:35pm
7 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:05:40pm

re: #6 darthstar

Bain sources say Romney would rather quit race than release his tax returns...

Wow, wouldn't that make this election interesting?

8 darthstar  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:07:20pm

re: #7 Charles Johnson

Wow, wouldn't that make this election interesting?

It's probably not the narrative Romney wants out there, either...so we'll see if someone asks him if that is in fact the case, that he'd rather quit than disclose.

9 Interesting Times  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:07:22pm

re: #6 darthstar

Okay, what - other than evidence of illegal activity - could possibly make Romney's tax returns that bad? Serious question.

10 iossarian  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:07:44pm

re: #6 darthstar

Another great Romneyism from the HuffPo article:

"The world of finance is not as simple as some would have you believe", he said.

Poor little people - they just don't understand why I need these hidden offshore investment accounts.

11 Targetpractice  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:08:51pm

re: #7 Charles Johnson

Wow, wouldn't that make this election interesting?

As noted the other day, it seems Romney decided that the damage to his campaign of refusing to release his returns was less than what would happen if he did.

12 Achilles Tang  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:09:20pm

This video explains a lot about the posters on WND. Based on the grammar and logic and knowing that the Middle East is the father (mother?) of conspiracy memes, and that we don't really know who or where a poster is, I am proposing the theory (conspiracy) that most WND posters are not really Americans (they don't sound like any I know), but are really Egyptians!!

13 erik_t  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:11:28pm

re: #11 Targetpractice

As noted the other day, it seems Romney decided that the damage to his campaign of refusing to release his returns was less than what would happen if he did.

What I don't get is this: he knew that people always released returns, right? Someone in the campaign surely told him this, right? He's not this out of the loop, is he?

This isn't exactly an unforeseen problem handled badly (see: McCain's laughable 'campaign suspension' when the economy imploded). This has been precedent for candidates for decades. Did he seriously not know that? Did he think he was above such petty normal-people rules?

14 Batman  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:11:56pm

If Obama had accounts in a tax haven, conservatives would cite it as proof that he's actually from that country.

15 Kragar  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:12:42pm

re: #7 Charles Johnson

Wow, wouldn't that make this election interesting?

Ron Paul is frantically checking for the source of that rumor even now.

16 erik_t  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:13:09pm

re: #15 Kragar

Ron Paul is frantically checking for the source of that rumor even now.

That's what the death of a party looks like, right?

17 Lidane  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:13:13pm

re: #6 darthstar

I would laugh if he actually did that, then I'd wonder what the hell would happen. It would send the entire election into total chaos.

18 darthstar  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:13:53pm

re: #17 Lidane

I would laugh if he actually did that, then I'd wonder what the hell would happen. It would send the entire election into total chaos.

Jeb Bush would happen.

19 Kragar  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:14:18pm

re: #16 erik_t

That's what the death of a party looks like, right?

It's a dead man's party. Who could ask for more?

20 Targetpractice  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:15:17pm

re: #13 erik_t

What I don't get is this: he knew that people always released returns, right? Someone in the campaign surely told him this, right? He's not this out of the loop, is he?

This isn't exactly an unforeseen problem handled badly (see: McCain's laughable 'campaign suspension' when the economy imploded). This has been precedent for candidates for decades. Did he seriously not know that? Did he think he was above such petty normal-people rules?

Very likely, yes. He didn't release his returns when he ran for governor or when he ran for the Senate against Ted Kennedy. And considering the nature of the GOP primaries, he very likely believed that there would never be serious questions about his time at Bain that he couldn't simply shrug off with "I wasn't the guy calling the shots." He really does seem to have believed that he was under no obligation to release them.

21 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:16:52pm

re: #12 Achilles Tang

This explains a lot about the posters on WND. Based on the grammar and logic and knowing that the Middle East is the father (mother?) of conspiracy memes, and that we don't really know who or where a poster is, I am proposing the theory (conspiracy) that most WND posters are not really Americans (they don't sound like any I know), but are really Egyptians!!

I think you're right about it being a reciprocal relationship. Maddow focused on the American wingnut sources I think Tawfik Okasha is the centerpeice. Here's her source for the segment: Behind Jeers for Clinton in Egypt, a Conspiracy Theory With U.S. Roots

The Egyptian writer and blogger Bassem Sabry reported on Twitter that the protesters at Saturday’s rally roared their approval when they were addressed by Tawfik Okasha, the host of a popular television program who has been called “Egypt’s Glenn Beck,” because of his embrace of conspiratorial thinking and hatred of political Islam. Last month, Mr. Okasha insisted that the presidential election had been rigged at the behest of the U.S. to deny Ahmed Shafik, a former general who was Hosni Mubarak’s last prime minister, the victory he earned at the ballot box.

He also the guy that started the rumor that the MB was going to pass a law allowing husbands to have sex with their dead wives.(Necrophilia Law is a Rumor Ya People !! )

Now after little research it turned out that this is rumor was started by Egypt’s Glenn Beck aka Tawfik Okasha who hates the Islamists just as he hates the revolution.

My guess is he sees a lot of his stories repeated by American wingnut blogs. He probably considers them part of his target audience and borrows material from them as well.

22 allegro  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:17:17pm

We've been told that Mitt provided all those years of taxes to McCain. McCain does not like Mitt as indicated by recent comments about Sara being the better candidate for VP. He's gotta know that hurts. Might there be a leak coming forth from there in the near future?

23 Targetpractice  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:17:54pm

re: #19 Kragar

It's a dead man's party. Who could ask for more?

Everybody's comin', leave your body at the door.

24 EiMitch  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:18:35pm

Its so sad for Egypt. They're so new to democracy that they don't yet realize the door is open for nuts to get into the government and media. They don't yet know that government controlled media organizations aren't the only ones who can and will lie to them.

25 Targetpractice  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:19:40pm

re: #22 allegro

We've been told that Mitt provided all those years of taxes to McCain. McCain does not like Mitt as indicated by recent comments about Sara being the better candidate for VP. He's gotta know that hurts. Might there be a leak coming forth from there in the near future?

McCain tried to walk back that comment yesterday, so I'd say probably not. Figure any copies were likely shredded after the election loss. And even if they did turn up, the Romney campaign would be quick to declare them forgeries.

26 erik_t  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:20:10pm

re: #24 EiMitch

They don't yet know that government controlled media organizations aren't the only ones who can and will lie to them.

Why should they? We're over 200 years in and haven't seem to have figured it out.

27 Kragar  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:21:27pm

re: #23 Targetpractice

Everybody's comin', leave your body at the door.

Youtube Video
28 lawhawk  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:22:40pm

re: #6 darthstar

I really doubt that.

The tax returns might read like Sanskrit with all the corporate entities and maneuvers to shield his income, but I doubt it's got anything so incriminating that it would force him from the race rather than see him release it.

That doesn't mean there might not be embarassing things - such as investments that might not wash any number of groups, in particular social conservatives, but if he goes ahead and releases them quickly, he gets the issue out of the way and can move back to his message rather than reacting to news (not a good place to be as a politician when you want to set an agenda and media message).

29 erik_t  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:25:05pm

re: #28 lawhawk

That doesn't mean there might not be embarassing things - such as investments that might not wash any number of groups, in particular social conservatives, but if he goes ahead and releases them quickly, he gets the issue out of the way and can move back to his message rather than reacting to news (not a good place to be as a politician when you want to set an agenda and media message).

On the other hand, literally nothing in the last year has made me think Romney has any stomach for actually fighting or defending his record on anything, to any degree, in any way whatsoever. He's either deeply ashamed or a goddamned coward.

30 Big Steve  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:25:08pm

re: #28 lawhawk

Plus he has been running for President for like the last 7 years so I am sure the returns are well vetted.

31 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:25:20pm

re: #9 Interesting Times

Okay, what - other than evidence of illegal activity - could possibly make Romney's tax returns that bad? Serious question.

Paying a zero percent tax, but especially prior to 2008 & 9. Having his occupation listed as CEO of Bain in 200 & 2001. The first seriously wounds him politically, the second would brand him forever as a liar and perjurer.

32 darthstar  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:25:40pm

re: #28 lawhawk

Still, it's a question now that needs to be asked. Would Mitt Romney rather drop out of the Presidential race than release his taxes? If the answer is yes, then he shouldn't be running. If the answer is no, then he should release them.

33 darthstar  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:26:28pm

re: #30 Big Steve

Plus he has been running for President for like the last 7 years so I am sure the returns are well vetted.

Except the 2008, 2009 and 2010 returns. He filed an October extension for 2011, so they will only get two weeks of news play before the election.

34 erik_t  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:27:26pm

re: #30 Big Steve

Plus he has been running for President for like the last 7 years so I am sure the returns are well vetted.

You'd think so, wouldn't you? One would really, really think that.

But here we are.

35 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:30:47pm

Michell Bachmann needs to be censured, or maybe committed.
But she's in the House, so it ain't gonna happen.

36 Lidane  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:31:49pm

re: #31 goddamnedfrank

Paying a zero percent tax, but especially prior to 2008 & 9. Having his occupation listed as CEO of Bain in 200 & 2001. The first seriously wounds him politically, the second would brand him forever as a liar and perjurer.

I think paying the zero percent tax would kill him with swing voters. It's one thing for people to complain about high taxes, but having actual proof of a super-rich CEO that's not paying any income taxes at all as a presidential candidate would destroy the GOP's message.

37 lawhawk  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:32:22pm

re: #32 darthstar

The issue of whether to release a return or not is campaign specific. Some campaigns have released all; others have limited them to a year or two - each designed to secure a particular kind of advantage.

Romney is technically correct that he doesn't have to release anything. However, from a political position, he's being backed into a corner - if he releases them, it looks like he's caving but if he doesn't release them, it looks like he's hiding something. He may simply spin it that he's released all he has to do, and move on from there. He can then make those who question his returns, etc., are chasing after ghosts and push it to a fringe.

The problem is that even GOP strategists and major figures are calling for him to release the returns to get the issue out of the way.

He's handled this about as bad as one could possibly handle it, but it wont result in him quitting. He's been looking to be president for a good long time; the returns wont stop him.

38 darthstar  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:32:42pm

Palin complaining she's being "denied her right to speak."

RELEASE THE PALIN! --Zeus

39 Kragar  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:33:11pm

Romney Doubles Down On ‘You Didn’t Build That’ — Then Affirms Obama’s Point

After exhorting business owners to stand up and be recognized, Romney said:

I know that you recognize a lot of people help you in a business. Perhaps the banks, the investors. There’s no question your mom and dad, your school teachers, the people that provide roads, the fire, the police. A lot of people help. But let me ask you this, did you build your business? If you did, raise your hand. Take that, Mr. President.

Here’s how Obama described the relationship between “the people that provides roads, the fire, the police” and business owners in that speech Romney cited:

Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business, you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.

The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don’t do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires.

In short, Romney: Yes, “a lot of people” help business owners, among them government, but in the end, “you build your business.” Obama: “We succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together.”

40 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:33:52pm

re: #38 darthstar

Newt says "...she arouses..."
Ewwww.

41 Kragar  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:34:29pm

re: #38 darthstar

Palin complaining she's being "denied her right to speak."

Somebody glued her mouth shut?

42 lawhawk  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:34:30pm

re: #31 goddamnedfrank

Again, that goes to what the terms of the severance deal, and whether he later filed amended returns on those years. I don't think he's gone and committed perjury or other crimes relating to his being labeled CEO, managing partner, etc., on the SEC filings from 1999-2002.

43 Targetpractice  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:36:52pm

re: #41 Kragar

Somebody glued her mouth shut?

Oh, if only...

44 Big Steve  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:37:28pm

How about a few facts here.

Candidate and number of returns released before election
Obama = 8
Romney = 2
McCain = 2
GW Bush = 0
Clinton = 0
G Bush = 0
Reagan = 0
Carter =1

45 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:38:45pm

re: #42 lawhawk

Again, that goes to what the terms of the severance deal, and whether he later filed amended returns on those years. I don't think he's gone and committed perjury or other crimes relating to his being labeled CEO, managing partner, etc., on the SEC filings from 1999-2002.

I'm referring to the FEC declaration. If the tax returns show that he listed his occupation as CEO, Chairman, etc of Bain and never amended those returns then the FEC declaration is demonstrably false.

It's the same reason neither he nor Bain will answer certain questions about his involvement during that time, such as whether he continued to be covered as an employee on Bain health insurance.

46 Targetpractice  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:39:53pm

re: #44 Big Steve

How about a few facts here.

Candidate and number of returns released before election
Obama = 8
Romney = 2
McCain = 2
GW Bush = 0
Clinton = 0
G Bush = 0
Reagan = 0
Carter =1

Those numbers in some cases are misleading. For example, McCain had released several years of returns due to his Senate runs.

47 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:40:46pm

re: #45 goddamnedfrank

P.S. I think the SEC filings are clearly accurate, properly representing his role in the organization during those years, and that's the reason there's no criminality with regards to his signing them.

48 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:40:58pm

The middle east has a long tradition of embracing conspiracy theories, even those they know are not true, but useful to promote a political agenda. Sound familiar?

Look at this excerpt.

Dr Matthew Gray, a senior lecturer at the Australian National University's Centre for Arab and Islamic Studies, is well acquainted with the prevalence of conspiracy theories in the Middle East.

Gray, who has written a book about conspiracy theories in the region, says that while some Middle Eastern conspiracy believers are simply deluded or misinformed, others use conspiracy theories in a conscious and deliberate way to further their own political agenda.


"All sorts of people, from presidents and public figures all the way down to taxi drivers use conspiracy theories as political language," Gray says.

He says it doesn't necessarily matter whether the person promoting the conspiracy theory believes it, or even whether their intended audience believes it. What matters is that conspiracy theories can be used to convert people to a cause, to play to their biases, or simply to drown out rational debate.

Read more: [Link: www.smh.com.au...]

49 wrenchwench  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:41:35pm

re: #44 Big Steve

How about a few facts here.

Candidate and number of returns released before election
Obama = 8
Romney = 2
McCain = 2
GW Bush = 0
Clinton = 0
G Bush = 0
Reagan = 0
Carter =1

Which ones of those are the facts?

50 lawhawk  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:41:56pm

re: #44 Big Steve

Not exactly:

2004: John Kerry vs. President George W. Bush

Democratic candidate Sen. John Kerry released 20 years of tax returns, including his 2003 returns - the year prior to the presidential election. However, like McCain, Kerry refused to release his wife's tax returns. Teresa Heinz Kerry, whose net worth was estimated at more $500 million at the time, is the widow of John Heinz, the heir to the ketchup fortune. She relented, just like Cindy McCain, and released a short summary of her 2003 taxes, which showed an income of just over $5 million mostly from tax-exempt bonds.

2000: George W. Bush vs. Al Gore

The fight over transparency and taxes was relatively quiet during the 2000 presidential campaign because both presidential candidate served in public office, requiring financial openness.
When he entered the 2000 presidential race, George W. Bush had already released his tax returns dating back to 1991. His openness was due, in part, to the fact the tax debate had heated up when he was facing incumbent Gov. Ann Richards for the governorship in 1994. After winning the statehouse, he released his returns going forward, and during his presidency as well.

As vice president, Al Gore released his taxes during the years he served. He caught heat for one year when he contributed only $353 of his $198,000 income to charity.

Your figures for Clinton are also wrong:

While running for president, then-candidate Bill Clinton released his tax returns for 1990 and 1991, and the years between 1980 and 1990 had previously been released. But controversy erupted when Mr. Clinton refused to release tax returns prior to 1980.

51 Lidane  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:42:17pm

re: #41 Kragar

Somebody glued her mouth shut?

They started paying more attention to Tom Cruise getting another divorce.

52 Targetpractice  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:42:53pm

re: #51 Lidane

They started paying more attention to Tom Cruise getting another divorce.

Tom Cruise is getting divorced?! Why am I always the last to hear about these things?!

///

53 Obdicut  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:42:56pm

re: #44 Big Steve

Where are you getting those facts from?

Presidential candidates have been inconsistent in the past about releasing returns. Obama and Vice President Joe Biden have released 12 years of returns. Senator John McCain of Arizona, the 2008 Republican presidential nominee, disclosed only two. Former Presidents George W. Bush and Bill Clinton each released eight, while Massachusetts Senator John Kerry, the 2004 Democratic nominee, provided four.

[Link: www.sfgate.com...]

54 Big Steve  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:43:01pm

re: #46 Targetpractice

not according to....Presidential Tax Returns

55 Big Steve  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:43:54pm

re: #49 wrenchwench

Which ones of those are the facts?

All
Presidential Tax Returns

56 lawhawk  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:43:59pm

re: #54 Big Steve

In a word, they're incomplete.

57 Obdicut  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:45:30pm

Hello huge storm how are you. You brought the lightning I see.

And the torrential downpour.

58 Only The Lurker Knows  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:45:50pm

MoveOn Org Add being aired in Ohio.

MoveOn ad equates Mitt Romney to Richard Nixon

Youtube Video
59 gwangung  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:47:15pm

re: #54 Big Steve

not according to...Presidential Tax Returns

Hm. You look like you haven't done your homework.

60 Big Steve  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:47:47pm

re: #53 Obdicut

The Clinton and Bush returns released where while in office. I distinctly wrote down the returns they released BEFORE entering office.

61 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:48:35pm

re: #58 Bubblehead II

There should be a Nixonian "goodwin" rule.

62 Obdicut  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:49:30pm

re: #60 Big Steve

The Clinton and Bush returns released where while in office. I distinctly wrote down the returns they released BEFORE entering office.

Well, you're still very wrong.

[Link: thehill.com...]

President Bill Clinton released 10 years of tax returns in July of 1990 while serving as governor of Arkansas. He released his 1990 and 1991 returns in April of 1992, ahead of the presidential general election.

63 gwangung  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:49:36pm

re: #60 Big Steve

The Clinton and Bush returns released where while in office. I distinctly wrote down the returns they released BEFORE entering office.

Doubling down on the lack of homework, I see.

64 Targetpractice  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:50:40pm

re: #57 Obdicut

Hello huge storm how are you. You brought the lightning I see.

And the torrential downpour.

*grumble* Well, aren't you lucky?

//

65 erik_t  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:50:43pm

re: #62 Obdicut

Well, you're still very wrong.

[Link: thehill.com...]

All right, we'll call it a draw.

66 gwangung  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:51:14pm

re: #65 erik_t

All right, we'll call it a draw.

No, the truth lies somewhere between the two.

67 Only The Lurker Knows  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:51:40pm

re: #57 Obdicut

You referring to this?

Severe weather breaking out in New England

Or this?

Severe thunderstorm watch across Chicago area

68 Obdicut  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:51:42pm

re: #64 Targetpractice

Today is awesome no matter what. My wife kicked ass all over the place on the USMLE Step 1 exam. And I got asked to join the board of directors of a cool non-profit.

69 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:51:48pm

Study least likely to be mentioned by Mitt-

Fed taxes at 30 year low
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

70 erik_t  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:52:04pm

re: #66 gwangung

No, the truth lies somewhere between the two.

The Black Knight lost all four limbs at the knee/elbow?

71 Obdicut  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:52:09pm

re: #67 Bubblehead II

I'm in NYC. Little lull right now, but there was a flash every few moments for awhile there.

72 iossarian  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:52:15pm

re: #66 gwangung

No, the truth lies somewhere between the two.

You say 10 returns for Clinton, I say zero.

OK, we'll split the difference. 2 sound OK to you?

73 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:52:25pm

re: #68 Obdicut

Today is awesome no matter what. My wife kicked ass all over the place on the USMLE Step 1 exam. And I got asked to join the board of directors of a cool non-profit.

Congrats on both counts.

74 Big Steve  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:52:52pm

Well lets see......I quoted the freakin Tax Museum and I specifically took their numbers for returns released PRIOR to being elected. Everyone else here is quoting various newspapers or blogs. Yes I will double down on who is right.

75 Obdicut  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:56:24pm

re: #74 Big Steve

Who the fuck is the Tax Museum, and why do you trust them so much?

Here's an article from 1992 talking about the Clinton's tax return.

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

Gov. Bill Clinton and his wife, Hillary, reported 36 percent more income in 1990 than in 1989, according to copies of their Federal tax return made available by his Presidential campaign organization.

The 1990 return, provided to The Associated Press, is the most recent available from the Clinton family; a campaign spokeswoman said the 1991 return had not yet been filed.

The 1990 return reports gross income of $268,646, up from $197,651 the previous year. After adjustments, deductions and exemptions, taxable income for the family in 1990 was $179,020, on which the Clintons paid taxes of $50,932, the return shows.

For 1989, the Clintons had taxable income of $138,348, on which they paid $37,883, their 1989 return showed.

The biggest change in the family's income from 1989 to 1990 was in honorariums, fees paid by organizations, usually for giving a speech. The 1989 tax return showed $7,702 in honorariums, and the 1990 return $52,700. The sources of honorariums were not listed.

Were they just lying, Steve? How deep does this conspiracy go?

Look these guys were in on it too!

[Link: www.politifact.com...]

How come only you and the Tax Museum know the real truth, Steve?!

76 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:56:51pm

re: #62 Obdicut

Well, you're still very wrong.

[Link: thehill.com...]

Also, Bush released his 1998 return in summary form only and his 1999 return.

That website of Big Steve's is chock full of omissions.

77 erik_t  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:56:56pm

re: #74 Big Steve

Well lets see...I quoted the freakin Tax Museum and I specifically took their numbers for returns released PRIOR to being elected. Everyone else here is quoting various newspapers or blogs. Yes I will double down on who is right.

Aggregation is superior to primary sources? Well, okay.

78 Kragar  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:57:03pm

re: #58 Bubblehead II

MoveOn Org Add being aired in Ohio.

MoveOn ad equates Mitt Romney to Richard Nixon

[Embedded content]

That is an insult. Nixon set up the EPA, the endangered species act and actually had a foreign policy. Why would they compare Nixon to that twit Romney?
/

79 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 1:58:42pm

re: #74 Big Steve

Yes I will double down on who is right.

That's embarrassing.

80 gwangung  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 2:02:20pm

re: #74 Big Steve

Well lets see...I quoted the freakin Tax Museum and I specifically took their numbers for returns released PRIOR to being elected. Everyone else here is quoting various newspapers or blogs. Yes I will double down on who is right.

You're a Republican, right?

Hint: you may want to check the thoroughness of your sources; those MULTIPLE primary sources suggests that your source may not be as comprehensive as you think.

81 erik_t  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 2:04:01pm

re: #44 Big Steve

How about a few facts here.

Candidate and number of returns released before election
Obama = 8
Romney = 2
McCain = 2
GW Bush = 0
Clinton = 0
G Bush = 0
Reagan = 0
Carter =1

Huh.

Experts, however, say the attempt at privacy may be futile. Joseph Thorndike, Director of the Tax History Project at Tax Analysts, said in today's political environment "these guys don't have any privacy in any sphere" and that "getting hung up in tax privacy seems a little anachronistic".

...

Presidential candidates began releasing their returns consistently starting in the early 1970's according to Thorndike, and in 1978, all presidential and vice presidential candidates were required to release certain financial documents as a result of the Ethics in Government Act of 1978, which mandates all candidates running for office of President of the United States to file a Public Financial Disclosure Report with the Federal Election Commission.

Maybe this interview is fabricated.

82 Obdicut  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 2:05:43pm

re: #81 erik_t

Oh man, they got to him too! Not Thonrdike too!

Curse these ever-present conspirators.

83 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 2:05:53pm

Here's Christopher Bergin, the President of Taxanalysts, the group that runs the taxhistory.org website.

Total wingnut.

84 erik_t  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 2:09:28pm

re: #83 goddamnedfrank

Here's Christopher Bergin, the President of Taxanalysts, the group that runs the taxhistory.org website.

Total wingnut.

And boom goes the dynamite.

85 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 2:13:13pm

I wonder what the Obama's opp. researchers know about Romney's taxes? The focus on Bain seems to have been just the intro to how much money Romney has and how he made it. But lately, it seems, the focus is on the taxes.

I mean we can all speculate, but Obama's team would be risking a huge hit if there' no there there. That would seem like desperation on the part of the president, and it's too early to be desperate.

Romney's supporters seem a bit nervous.

86 Mocking Jay  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 2:14:18pm

re: #6 darthstar

Abby Huntsman is gorgeous. Just had to get that off my chest.

87 darthstar  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 2:16:31pm

Image: robotq.jpg

88 MittDoesNotCompute  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 2:16:55pm

re: #51 Lidane

They started paying more attention to Tom Cruise getting another divorce.

Xenu is displeased...

///

89 darthstar  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 2:17:13pm

re: #86 Mocking Jay

Abby Huntsman is gorgeous. Just had to get that off my chest.

Ooh...yes she is...hadn't looked at her profile before.

90 Kragar  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 2:26:10pm

Ed Rollins Blasts Michele Bachmann: ‘Shame On You’

Ed Rollins, who formerly served as Rep. Michele Bachmann’s campaign manager in her bid for the Republican presidential nomination, blasted the congresswoman today for “downright vicious” accusations against Huma Abedin, a top aide to Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.

“I am fully aware that she sometimes has difficulty with her facts, but this is downright vicious and reaches the late Sen. Joe McCarthy level,” Rollins wrote in Fox News.

91 Mattand  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 2:26:21pm

Romney Gives Not-So-Subtle Nod To United Nations Conspiracy Theories

Among the not-good things, he gave a subtle nod are a laundry list of fringe conspiracies:

“Turning to the United Nations to tell us how to raise our kids, or whether we can have the Second Amendment rights that our Constitution gave us, I mean these, that is the wrong way to go, all right. Do not cede sovereignty, I’m happy to talk to people there, I’m not willing to give American sovereignty in any way shape or form to the United Nations or any other body, we are a free nation, we fought for freedom and independence, we’re going to keep freedom and independence.”

The exchange shows that as Romney tries to focus on the economy, even conservative members of his own party will be there to throw him off track.

Paraphrasing my comment on the TPM page: Can anyone point to any specific UN plan that would have forced the US to ignore its own laws and Constitution, particularly the 2nd Amendment?

And, no, I'm not shocked that Mitt's dipping his toe into the Fever Swamps. I just hope his internal circuit boards are waterproof.

92 erik_t  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 2:28:59pm

re: #90 Kragar

“I am fully aware that she sometimes has difficulty with her facts"

Those are exactly the words I would have used.

93 Kragar  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 2:28:59pm

re: #91 Mattand


Mitt has nothing to offer. Nothing.

94 Mattand  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 2:29:34pm

re: #90 Kragar

Ed Rollins Blasts Michele Bachmann: ‘Shame On You’

“I am fully aware that she sometimes has difficulty with her facts, but this is downright vicious and reaches the late Sen. Joe McCarthy level,” Rollins wrote in Fox News.

Understatement of the Year.

95 Kragar  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 2:30:24pm

re: #92 erik_t

Those are exactly the words I would have used.

I would have thrown in a Light Brigade reference.

96 Obdicut  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 2:30:26pm

re: #91 Mattand

Romney Gives Not-So-Subtle Nod To United Nations Conspiracy Theories

The exchange shows that as Romney tries to focus on the economy, even conservative members of his own party will be there to throw him off track.

Wow. Remember when people were claiming Romney would bring the GOP back to the middle?

Back to the middle of crazy bugshit land, I guess.

97 Kragar  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 2:32:40pm

re: #96 Obdicut

Their 2010 campaign joke was "Jobs! Jobs! Jobs!". Mitt going to the center was the 2012 campaign joke.

98 Mocking Jay  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 2:34:51pm

re: #93 Kragar

Mitt has nothing to offer. Nothing.

Except for at least a quarter billion dollars...

99 engineer cat  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 2:36:37pm

re: #74 Big Steve

Well lets see...I quoted the freakin Tax Museum and I specifically took their numbers for returns released PRIOR to being elected. Everyone else here is quoting various newspapers or blogs. Yes I will double down on who is right.

[Link: www.taxhistory.org...]

mccain 2 (but tax returns before that released every year according to senate requirements)
bush 8
clinton 8
reagan 6

100 Kragar  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 2:36:51pm

re: #98 Mocking Jay

Except for at least a quarter billion dollars...

If he signs it over to me, I'll vote for him.

101 Mattand  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 2:37:01pm

re: #96 Obdicut

Somebody last night was complaining that the batshit brigade really doesn't have that much of an influence on the GOP.

Now we have the presumptive GOP POTUS candidate name-checking the "UN wants to take over the US" meme in a stump speech.

The next conservative who says that both parties are equally crazy is getting spammed with this article.

102 Mocking Jay  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 2:38:52pm

Wow.

Image: mitt-bane.jpg

103 Lidane  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 2:39:24pm

re: #96 Obdicut

Wow. Remember when people were claiming Romney would bring the GOP back to the middle?

Back to the middle of crazy bugshit land, I guess.

He can't win otherwise. The far right hates Romney for a variety of reasons. He needs the batshit crazy wingnuts to get pissed off about their pet conspiracy theories about Obama so they'll go vote.

104 Kragar  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 2:42:31pm

4-Chan gets Burger King employee fired

It took 4Chan users only 15 minutes to track down and bust the Cleveland-area Burger King employee who stood on top of two containers of shredded lettuce and then posted a picture of the gross act. 4Chan is a bulletin board-type website where members post images and comments.

"This is the lettuce you eat at Burger King," wrote the unnamed employee on the evening of July 16. Guess he thought that was funny. Other users weren't laughing: according to Hypervocal.com, Anonymous, the notorious vigilante hacking group, used GPS data embedded in the photo to locate the fast food restaurant's address and reportedly contacted the franchise and FoxNews8. "Whoever this is is getting fired," a morning shift manager named Andrea, told the Cleveland Scene.

105 researchok  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 2:43:35pm

Maddow is right in her excoriation of Beck et al, but to imply they are the cause of Egyptian conspiracy theories is in itself a blatant misrepresentation.

The Arab world has embraced and has been addicted to conspiracy theories long before Beck, Bachmann and company.

She knows better.

106 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 2:44:14pm

re: #12 Achilles Tang

This video explains a lot about the posters on WND. Based on the grammar and logic and knowing that the Middle East is the father (mother?) of conspiracy memes, and that we don't really know who or where a poster is, I am proposing the theory (conspiracy) that most WND posters are not really Americans (they don't sound like any I know), but are really Egyptians!!

Mother. The expression is "The mother of all..." as in "The mother of all sandstorms," or "The mother of all conspiracy theories."

107 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 2:44:49pm

re: #18 darthstar

Jeb Bush would happen.

At this point I might greet him with flowers and a band playing Sousa marches, although not an actual vote.

108 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 2:47:40pm

re: #105 researchok

Maddow is right in her excoriation of Beck et al, but to imply they are the cause of Arab world conspiracy theories is in itself a blatant misrepresentation.

The Arab world has embraced and has been addicted to conspiracy theories long before Beck, Bachmann and company.

She knows better.

True. That's why I thought it was important to point out the central character in #21. The "magical balance fairy" is also easy to envoke in this situation. There was a steady stream of Occupy protesters appear on Iranian state TV talking about the American police state. I also recall Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 9-11 was a big hit in the Arab world too.

109 Big Joe  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 2:47:48pm

Mitt Romney Taxes For 2010 Not Fully Disclosed

Mitt Romney has not released his full tax records from 2010, including key documentation connected to his Swiss bank account.

Although President Barack Obama and an increasing number of Republican politicians have called on Romney to release tax returns from years prior to 2010, the public criticism has so far failed to note that Romney has not disclosed all of his tax documents for 2010 itself -- the only year for which the GOP presidential nominee has presented any final tax forms.

Romney released his 2010 tax return in January of this year, a document that first informed voters about the existence of his Swiss bank account and financial activities in Bermuda and the Cayman Islands. But people who own foreign bank accounts are required to file a separate document with the IRS that provides additional details on such overseas bank holdings, and Romney has not released that form to the public.

"You mean you want to see all of it?"

110 Kragar  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 2:49:29pm

re: #109 Big Joe

Mitt Romney Taxes For 2010 Not Fully Disclosed

"You mean you want to see all of it?"

Um...Four? Is that what you needed? We good now?"

111 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 2:49:32pm

re: #108 Killgore Trout

True. That's why I thought it was important to point out the central character in #21. The "magical balance fairy" is also easy to envoke in this situation. There was a steady stream of Occupy protesters appear on Iranian state TV talking about the American police state. I also recall Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 9-11 was a big hit in the Arab world too.

It's difficult--and this goes both ways--to check the validity of sources coming out of another country, from a cultural context that may not instantly make sense or be clear.

Hence, fringy stuff that meets prior suspicions can be seized on.

This demonstrates the funnier side of it. [Link: hurryupharry.org...]

112 steve_davis  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 2:49:36pm

re: #13 erik_t

What I don't get is this: he knew that people always released returns, right? Someone in the campaign surely told him this, right? He's not this out of the loop, is he?

This isn't exactly an unforeseen problem handled badly (see: McCain's laughable 'campaign suspension' when the economy imploded). This has been precedent for candidates for decades. Did he seriously not know that? Did he think he was above such petty normal-people rules?

Romney is constitutionally unable to understand that there are expectations placed upon him by people who are not involved with him monetarily. It's the same reason why a cat can't figure out what the problem is with it eating songbirds. Their make-up is such that if you told a cat it was immoral to eat a songbird, they would simply smile indulgently and imagine how strange the unnatural life you live must be.

His Holiness the Smoke

113 researchok  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 2:50:02pm

re: #108 Killgore Trout

Well said.

114 darthstar  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 2:51:09pm

re: #91 Mattand

Romney Gives Not-So-Subtle Nod To United Nations Conspiracy Theories

The exchange shows that as Romney tries to focus on the economy, even conservative members of his own party will be there to throw him off track.

Paraphrasing my comment on the TPM page: Can anyone point to any specific UN plan that would have forced the US to ignore its own laws and Constitution, particularly the 2nd Amendment?

And, no, I'm not shocked that Mitt's dipping his toe into the Fever Swamps. I just hope his internal circuit boards are waterproof.

Well, we now know Romney reads Drudge seriously.

115 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 2:51:09pm

re: #105 researchok

Maddow is right in her excoriation of Beck et al, but to imply they are the cause of Egyptian conspiracy theories is in itself a blatant misrepresentation.

The Arab world has embraced and has been addicted to conspiracy theories long before Beck, Bachmann and company.

She knows better.

I don't think her point was that Beck, Gaffney, etc., are the SOLE cause of this kind of anti-American sentiment.

She's pointing out that their conspiracy theories and extreme rhetoric are having an influence.

Which, I think, is undeniable.

116 Mocking Jay  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 2:51:14pm

Walmart Heirs Have As Much Wealth As Bottom 40 Percent Of Americans Combined

Title kinda speaks for itself.

117 Kragar  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 2:51:36pm

Pawlenty On Dullness Charge: ‘I’ll Show You My Tats’

Oh piss off, you twit.

118 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 2:52:27pm

re: #111 SanFranciscoZionist

It's difficult--and this goes both ways--to check the validity of sources coming out of another country, from a cultural context that may not instantly make sense or be clear.

Hence, fringy stuff that meets prior suspicions can be seized on.

This demonstrates the funnier side of it. [Link: hurryupharry.org...]

Lol, I keep forgetting about Harry's Place. Good blog.

119 Mattand  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 2:53:58pm

re: #105 researchok

Maddow is right in her excoriation of Beck et al, but to imply they are the cause of Arab world conspiracy theories is in itself a blatant misrepresentation.

The Arab world has embraced and has been addicted to conspiracy theories long before Beck, Bachmann and company.

She knows better.

She does know better. I listened to the the podcast version a few hours ago. It's a bit of a straw man to say she was implying that Beck et. al were the cause of Arab conspiracy theories.

She was pointing out how the US conservative bullshit machine was spreading to other parts of the world.

120 Mocking Jay  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 2:54:20pm

Dark Knight Rises OST definitely gets my seal of approval.

Youtube Video
121 Kragar  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 2:56:28pm

Republicans Abandon ‘Government Doesn’t Create Jobs’ Mantra In Fight To Preserve Military Spending

Defense industry-backed Republicans are so desperate to stave off the automatic military spending cuts that they’re trying to scare Americans about job losses and an ensuing nose-diving economy should the military spending cuts hold.

Except there’s one problem. Republicans aren’t supposed to believe that government spending creates jobs. But in this last act of desperation, however, it seems that Republicans pushing to preserve America’s bloated military budget have come to a pretty significant epiphany. Next week, three right-wing think tanks will co-host Sens. Jon Kyl (R-AZ) and Kelly Ayotte (R-NH) and Reps. Howard “Buck” McKeon (R-CA) and Randy Forbers (R-VA) to “discuss the dangers of deeper defense cuts.” All four lawmakers are warning about job loss because of sequestration, yet they’ve all previously argued that government spending doesn’t create jobs:

122 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 2:56:31pm

re: #115 Charles Johnson

I don't think that was her point, that Beck, Gaffney, etc., are the SOLE cause of this kind of anti-American sentiment. She's pointing out that their conspiracy theories and extreme rhetoric are having an influence.

Which, I think, is undeniable.

I think she made her case imperfectly. I almost dismissed it out of hand because I found it pretty doubtful that many Egyptians were listening to Glenn Beck or paying attention to Michelle Bachman speeches. The story only starts to make sense when it becomes apparent that Tawfik Okasha is spreading these stories and appearing at the protests.

123 researchok  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 2:58:40pm

re: #115 Charles Johnson

No, she did not say that outright but it is the lack of context I object to.

She was right to excoriate Beck, et al, but had she pointed out the eagerness in which Egyptians embrace these conspiracy theories (and how easily mainstream they become) the Becks and Gaffneys become even more objectionable because they are deliberately feeding the alcoholic with the poisin that hobbles and disables them.

They aren't talking about politics anymore. They are committing a kind of intellectual terrorism that feeds on a group conditioned for decades by dysfunction and failure.

Beck and company are the ones organizing the 'car swarms'.

124 steve_davis  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 2:59:13pm

re: #36 Lidane

I think paying the zero percent tax would kill him with swing voters. It's one thing for people to complain about high taxes, but having actual proof of a super-rich CEO that's not paying any income taxes at all as a presidential candidate would destroy the GOP's message.

You know, if Obama wants to be extremely Machiavellian, and I have no reason to believe he doesn't, he could simply wait until the last debate, 3 weeks or so before the election, and then simplyl throw out that, "Well one theory, governor, as to why you won't release any of your taxes is because you paid none in 2009. Now, there's an easy way for you to put an end to that speculation."

The beautiful thing about doing it that late is that it means there is
absolutely no chance the Romney campaign could quickly put together those tax documents so as to release them and rebut. They'd have Mitt Romney standing on stage saying, "Why that's scandalous and libelous." And Obama would be standing behind his podium simply saying, "Well, there's an easy way for you to disprove it," knowing full well there's no way Romney would have time to disprove it. It took the man an entire year to crank out one tax return, and he needs until October to deal with last year's.

125 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 2:59:19pm

re: #122 Killgore Trout

I think she made her case imperfectly. I almost dismissed it out of hand because I found it pretty doubtful that many Egyptians were listening to Glenn Beck or paying attention to Michelle Bachman speeches. The story only starts to make sense when it becomes apparent that Tawfik Okasha is spreading these stories and appearing at the protests.

If you don't think the statements by Beck and Bachmann about Obama's supposed Muslim Brotherhood connections are being heard in Egypt, you're being naive. American media has a big influence in places like Egypt, and they definitely pay attention when our politicians and pundits talk about subjects like these.

126 researchok  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 2:59:21pm

re: #119 Mattand

How is it a straw man? Where in the piece did she even imply otherwise?

127 Mocking Jay  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 3:00:49pm

Contrarian Trout says what?

128 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 3:02:51pm

re: #126 researchok

How is it a straw man? Where in the piece did she even imply otherwise?

Actually, she says very clearly that politics in the Middle East are convoluted and murky. She's bringing up one specific conspiracy theory that pretty clearly made its way directly from the Beck/Gaffney/Bachmann crowd to the Egyptian public.

Seriously, listen to it again. She's definitely not saying, implying, or even hinting that Beck is the only cause of conspiracy theorizing in Egypt. The opposite, in fact.

129 researchok  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 3:03:33pm

re: #122 Killgore Trout

The do listen- Beck and company are feeding them the alcohol.

They will get their fix wherever they can- and the internet makes it easy.

And that is why Beck and all are s objectionable in these matters.

I don't care about their political ideas or beliefs, they are entitled to them. However when that crosses into unsubstantiated charges and cpnspiracy theories...well, they become fair game.

130 engineer cat  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 3:04:56pm

i though we had reached Peak Wingnut but little did i know that World Wingnut awaited us

131 aagcobb  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 3:05:29pm

re: #121 Kragar

Only military spending creates jobs. Everyone knows that teachers, policemen, firemen and other domestic government employees simply burn their pay and so create no jobs./

132 Mocking Jay  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 3:06:04pm

re: #130 engineer cat

i though we had reached Peak Wingnut but little did i know that World Wingnut awaited us

Renewable Wingnut is just around the corner.

133 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 3:06:26pm

Quote:

Diplomacy is always complicated, and perceptions of America in the Middle East are always convoluted, but where did these Egyptian protesters throwing tomatoes at Hillary Clinton get the conspiracy theory that the only reason the Muslim Brotherhood won the Egyptian election is because of us?

134 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 3:07:56pm

Maddow cites a New York Times article: Behind Jeers for Clinton in Egypt, a Conspiracy Theory With U.S. Roots.

She's not making this up, or exaggerating it.

135 engineer cat  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 3:07:59pm

just think, in solar systems 15 light years away, they are anxiously awaiting news of whether clinton will be impeached

136 researchok  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 3:08:54pm

re: #128 Charles Johnson

Again,it was the context I was referring to. See my 123.

In not mentioning the general climate, Maddow misses her strongest argument. She presents these events as a singular occurrence- as if if Beck backed down everything would be OK. These events/behaviors are more than that. As far as I concerned they are deliberate attempts to undermine the new political structure. By appealing to already existing structural weaknesses the damage they do goes well beyond what is reported.

137 Mattand  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 3:09:19pm

re: #126 researchok

How is it a straw man? Where in the piece did she even imply otherwise?

Now that I'm re-reading what I wrote, I could have probably said it better.

I was interpreting what you wrote was that Maddow was saying there were no US-Muslim Brotherhood conspiracy theories until Beck and Friends' nonsense spread to Egypt.

Maddow is correct that Beck and companies' ravings are fueling some of the Muslim Brotherhood conspiracy theories in Egypt. At no time did she say they were single-handed creation of Beck and the other idiots.

138 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 3:11:17pm

re: #136 researchok

She presents these events as a singular occurrence- as if if Beck backed down everything would be OK.

I can't agree with that. I just watched the video clip again, and her point is very clear -- that the conspiracy theories spread by Beck are being eagerly picked up in places like Egypt. She makes a really good case for that. But she never says it's the only reason for conspiracy theories in Egypt, never even comes close to saying that.

You're arguing against a point Maddow did not make.

139 researchok  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 3:12:19pm

re: #137 Mattand

Yup- and as I have noted they are doing more than just fueling theories- they are disabling the attempt to leave the dysfunction behind.

140 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 3:12:42pm

Oh, and thanks for front-paging this Charles, when I saw it last night I imagined you would be headdesking and facepalming as much as I was.

141 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 3:15:19pm

re: #134 Charles Johnson

Maddow cites a New York Times article: Behind Jeers for Clinton in Egypt, a Conspiracy Theory With U.S. Roots.

She's not making this up, or exaggerating it.

She left out the part about Tawfik Okasha wich makes the whole thing make more sense.

The Egyptian writer and blogger Bassem Sabry reported on Twitter that the protesters at Saturday’s rally roared their approval when they were addressed by Tawfik Okasha, the host of a popular television program who has been called “Egypt’s Glenn Beck,” because of his embrace of conspiratorial thinking and hatred of political Islam. Last month, Mr. Okasha insisted that the presidential election had been rigged at the behest of the U.S. to deny Ahmed Shafik, a former general who was Hosni Mubarak’s last prime minister, the victory he earned at the ballot box.

He's apparently very popular and has a decent following. There are probably others like him too.

142 Mattand  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 3:16:19pm

re: #139 researchok

Yup- and as I have noted they are doing more than just fueling theories- they are disabling the attempt to leave the dysfunction behind.

And, it should be noted, Maddow didn't misrepresent anything. That was the initial statement I disagreed with.

143 researchok  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 3:19:54pm

re: #138 Charles Johnson

Perhaps it is an 'eye of the beholder thing'.

Still, I believe what Beck and Gaffney have done is far more than spread a few conspiracy theories. They fueling the worst elements of the remnants of a very broken system and I believe they are doing it knowingly.

Like him or not, Beck is a very media savvy and smart guy. He knows exactly how his words will be taken and misused.

If you are right in how you heard Maddow, so be it. I just wish she had taken Beck and Gaffney to the woodshed for what they had to know is a concerted effort to deliberately undermining the nascent democracy movement- which has enough to deal with without the interference from outsides deliberately looking to sacrifice them so as to humiliate the Obama administration.

First I'm posting articles from The Nation, now I'm harder on Beck than Maddow.

I need a drink.

144 researchok  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 3:20:47pm

re: #142 Mattand

I said it was context I was concerned with.

145 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 3:21:52pm

Ruh-Roh:

Romney invested in bermuda company setup immediately after 9/11 in order to take advantage of casualty insurance market:

Romney's and Bain's investment, via Golden Gate Capital, in a company called Endurance Specialty. That company was formed immediately after the 9/11 attacks to take advantage of the casualty insurance market created by that tragedy -- what some would call profiteering, and others would call meeting a need. Endurance Specialty was established in Bermuda to avoid US taxes and regulations.

146 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 3:23:15pm

re: #143 researchok

If you are right in how you heard Maddow, so be it. I just wish she had taken Beck and Gaffney to the woodshed for what they had to know is a concerted effort to deliberately undermining the nascent democracy movement- which has enough to deal with without the interference from outsides deliberately looking to sacrifice them so as to humiliate this administration.

Obama supported that democracy movement, if it fails Beck and Gaffney would most likely be over-joyed.

147 researchok  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 3:24:53pm

re: #146 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

Exactly.

You have to be pretty be really out there to celebrate the failure of a democratic revolution.

148 dragonfire1981  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 3:26:03pm

re: #147 researchok

Exactly.

You have to be pretty be really out there to celebrate the failure of a democratic revolution.

Weren't their some Republicans who were STILL supporting Gaddafi almost up until the end?

149 Kragar  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 3:26:39pm

Ron Perlman is awesome.

Spectral Motion, a well known special effects company which has worked on the Fantastic Four, Hellboy, and X-Men films, has been the location of two Make-A-Wish children's wishes. For one of them, Zachary wanted to meet and become Hellboy. When Ron Perlman heard about it, he couldn't refuse to don the horns once again.

Spectral Motion said: In the past three weeks, Spectral Motion has been honored to host two wonderful Make-A-Wish children, Caleb and Zachary. Zachary loved his visit for two very special reasons. It was Zachary's wish to meet Hellboy and also to become Hellboy. When the Make-A-Wish Foundation contacted Spectral Motion with this request, Mike thought it would be fantastic to have Ron Perlman reprise his role for the day. Ron loved the idea and donned the makeup once more (with the assistance of Lufeng Qu and Eden Elizalde) and also ordered a Hellboy sized meal of burgers, shakes, and fries for Zachary and his family and the entire Spectral crew to enjoy. Later in the day, Zachary was transformed into Hellboy with the assistance of makeup artists Lufeng Qu and Neil Winn. Both of the Make-A-Wish days were a complete thrill for the families of the children, as well as for the crew at Spectral Motion!

150 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 3:26:39pm

Romney never would have run if he had to release returns.

Add to that another article quoting someone at Bain as saying Romney would quit the race before he released said returns and the fact that the 2010 returns are missing the swiss bank acct info they should have contained.

151 darthstar  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 3:27:28pm

Fox poll shows tight race among men

but not so tight among women...

Maybe the GOP should consider disenfranchising women rather than focusing on minorities.

152 CriticalDragon1177  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 3:28:03pm

Dreggas

This is nothing if not ironic.

153 researchok  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 3:28:53pm

re: #148 dragonfire1981

I don't recall.

I do know there were some Reps and Dems who were against getting involved in Libya. Not any significant numbers, I believe.

154 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 3:29:25pm

re: #152 CriticalDragon1177

How so?

155 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 3:30:22pm

Epic Tweet Fail

156 Prideful, Arrogant Marriage Equality Advocate  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 3:37:07pm

Is Romney required to release his tax returns or has this just been a good faith act by past presidents?

157 CriticalDragon1177  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 3:38:05pm

re: #154 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

How so?

Michele Bachmann, Frank Gaffney, and Glenn Beck all promote anti Muslim conspiracy theories, not to mention they're not exactly fans of the Muslim Brotherhood. Off course Gaffney especially thinks the Muslim Brother hood is behind the scenes, but he thinks its the other way around and their controlling the US.

158 Mentis Fugit  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 3:38:08pm

re: #135 engineer cat

just think, in solar systems 15 light years away, they are anxiously awaiting news of whether clinton will be impeached

No spoilers please. We never invented our own soap operas.

159 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 3:39:17pm

re: #156 Prideful, Arrogant Marriage Equality Advocate

Is Romney required to release his tax returns or has this just been a good faith act by past presidents?

Nixon started it to prove...something, I think.

Eisenhower could have killed him. (It was the Eisenhower/Nixon ticket.) The Eisenhowers weren't particularly generous givers, and this would be revealed.

160 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 3:40:42pm

re: #157 CriticalDragon1177

Got ya. It is pretty ironic in that regard.

161 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 3:42:13pm

God I love Bernie Sanders:

If Romney holds the line on this (his taxes) it will be the first time he's held the line on anything.

162 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 3:46:14pm

Geez, someone throw in the towel already. This isn't even a trainwreck at this point it's the freaking apocalypse...or should that be Mittocalypse?

Romney/Bain profit from massive medicare fraud

164 darthstar  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 3:58:02pm
165 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 3:58:33pm

Sheldon Adelson is under even more heat

166 Kragar  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 4:04:24pm

Judge: Man who took off clothes at airport to protest policy not guilty of indecent exposure

An Oregon man who stripped nude at Portland’s airport security to protest what he saw as invasive measures was found not guilty of indecent exposure.

Multnomah County Circuit Court Judge David Rees ruled Wednesday that Brennan’s act was one of protest and therefore, protected speech.

167 allegro  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 4:06:17pm

re: #166 Kragar

Judge: Man who took off clothes at airport to protest policy not guilty of indecent exposure

I'd say under these circumstances, that judgment is entirely fair and appropriate.

168 Kragar  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 4:07:38pm

No sign of Assad after bomb kills kin, rebels close in

The Syrian leader made no public appearance and no statement on Wednesday after a bomber killed his powerful brother-in-law, his defense minister and a top general.

By the early hours of Thursday morning, residents had reported no let-up in the heaviest fighting to hit the capital in a 16-month revolt against Assad's rule.

Fighting on Wednesday had come to within sight of the presidential palace, near the security headquarters where the bomber struck a crisis meeting of defense and security chiefs.

Assad's brother-in-law Assef Shawkat, who served as a top commander and one of the pillars of the Assad clan's rule, was killed in the blast along with Defense Minister Daoud Rajha.

Another senior general also was killed and the heads of intelligence and the Interior Ministry were wounded, deeply damaging the security apparatus of the Assad family, which has ruled the country with an iron fist for four decades.

169 erik_t  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 4:07:49pm

re: #151 darthstar

Maybe the GOP should consider disenfranchising women rather than focusing on minorities.

Pretty sure Ann Coulter already went there.

170 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 4:10:49pm

Anyone care to guess what Israeli retaliation we're likely to see from today's terror attacks? I think striking targets inside Iran is a bit much. Maybe thin out Hezbollah leadership in Lebanon? Maybe pick off a few Quds operatives operating internationally?

171 darthstar  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 4:11:42pm
172 palomino  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 4:12:00pm

re: #60 Big Steve

The Clinton and Bush returns released where while in office. I distinctly wrote down the returns they released BEFORE entering office.

Great work, Inspector Clouseau.

Seriously, you couldn't be more wrong if you just copied and pasted from a shithole like Conservapedia.

173 darthstar  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 4:13:54pm

re: #170 Killgore Trout

Anyone care to guess what Israeli retaliation we're likely to see from today's terror attacks? I think striking targets inside Iran is a bit much. Maybe thin out Hezbollah leadership in Lebanon? Maybe pick off a few Quds operatives operating internationally?

I believe the attack was in Bulgaria. The retaliations you fantasize about are the equivalent of kicking your dog because your wife blew the mailman.

174 Obdicut  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 4:17:01pm

re: #173 darthstar

It may very well have been an Iranian terror cell working in Bulgaria.

175 enigma3535  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 4:18:05pm

Have not posted here in a while although I have probably perused every one of Charles’ posts in the last couple of months … the reason why? Some degree of apathy is creeping into my online posting habits … the Right in this country has gone off the rails [further than I thought possible] into a chasm … dragging the governance of what was the greatest country in history toward an abyss with them.

The Right appears to be on the wrong side of every imaginable issue. In a way, it is awe inspiring. This one [who is a student of history] does not struggle much with finding precedents for what is happening in general, but for the leading element of civilization? At no time in human history can I recall, in such a short period of time, THE leading element of civilization apparently going into the tank so rapidly.

Maddow’s piece is emblematic regarding why.

From the graphic novel “V for Vendetta”, I quote:

"The Romans invented Fascism. A bundle of bound twigs was its' symbol.

One twig could be broken. A bundle would prevail.

Fascism ... strength in unity.

I believe in strength. I believe in unity.

And if that strength, that unity of purpose, demands a uniformity of thought, work and deed then so be it.”

176 darthstar  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 4:19:04pm

re: #174 Obdicut

It may very well have been an Iranian terror cell working in Bulgaria.

Oh, then by all means, bomb the fuck out of Lebanon.

177 Obdicut  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 4:20:54pm

re: #176 darthstar

No thanks. I'm going to the pub.

178 darthstar  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 4:21:10pm

re: #177 Obdicut

No thanks. I'm going to the pub.

Good choice.

179 danarchy  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 4:21:24pm

Hey Charles, just wanted to point out a little weirdness. It seems to happen on firefox and IE only when I am actually signed in, but if a user has a name that wraps it also pushes the "Report" button to a new line and looks very odd. Chrome seems fine. The name I kept noticing it on was "Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance"

180 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 4:21:40pm

re: #174 Obdicut

It may very well have been an Iranian terror cell working in Bulgaria.

Israel vows retaliation against Iran as 7 killed in bus attack in Bulgaria

"All signs point to Iran," Netanyahu said after Wednesday's explosion. "Just in the past few months, we have seen attempts by Iran to harm Israelis in Thailand, India, Georgia, Kenya, Cyprus and more. This is an Iranian terror attack that is spreading across the world. Israel will react forcefully to Iran's terror."
...
Top Israeli security officials were holding consultations late Wednesday. The Israelis said they were still weighing their options on how to respond, and there were no preparations under way for an immediate reaction.

The officials, speaking on condition of anonymity because they were discussing a sensitive security matter and were not authorized to give details to reporters, said any reaction would probably be a pinpoint operation limited in scope, most likely under the auspices of the Mossad spy agency.

181 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 4:24:16pm

Intrade has Obama's reelection odds up 2.3% in the last day to 57.5. The Bain attacks may not have moved the public opinion needle yet but it looks like the SEC documents and Romney's intransigence on releasing more tax returns is spooking the betting money.

182 kirkspencer  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 4:24:21pm

re: #174 Obdicut

It may very well have been an Iranian terror cell working in Bulgaria.

What caught my attention was that the Israelis were blaming the Iranians almost immediately.

This does not automatically make the charge false. It does, however, raise in my mind the question of whether the evidence now being claimed (by Israel, not Bulgaria) is all the evidence, or if they're only finding what they want.

183 darthstar  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 4:24:55pm

re: #180 Killgore Trout

Israel vows retaliation against Iran as 7 killed in bus attack in Bulgaria

And Romney will blame Obama. Predictable reactions are predictable. That's not to say the attack wasn't awful, and obviously those who are doing battle with Israel are starting to pick soft targets in other countries due to Israel's supermax domestic security. But these actions, and the retaliations they spur, will not be productive for anybody.

184 darthstar  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 4:26:33pm
185 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 4:30:54pm

So is Zimmerman's atty OK with the Hannity interview?

Such a right wing hero.

186 Someone Please Beam Me Up!  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 4:32:22pm

re: #179 danarchy

Hey Charles, just wanted to point out a little weirdness. It seems to happen on firefox and IE only when I am actually signed in, but if a user has a name that wraps it also pushes the "Report" button to a new line and looks very odd. Chrome seems fine. The name I kept noticing it on was "Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance"

Oh, is that what it is -- I'd just begun to notice something odd about the "report" button myself. In Firefox.

187 darthstar  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 4:32:29pm

re: #185 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012

So is Zimmerman's atty OK with the Hannity interview?

Such a right wing hero.

Zimmerman's only hope is to pollute the jury pool, and Hannity viewers are the easiest to manipulate.

188 darthstar  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 4:54:03pm

Ha!

189 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 6:12:56pm

re: #179 danarchy

Hey Charles, just wanted to point out a little weirdness. It seems to happen on firefox and IE only when I am actually signed in, but if a user has a name that wraps it also pushes the "Report" button to a new line and looks very odd. Chrome seems fine. The name I kept noticing it on was "Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance"

Report me and I'll report you to the Unitarian Jihad! LOL j/k

190 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 6:44:21pm

re: #162 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

Geez, someone throw in the towel already. This isn't even a trainwreck at this point it's the freaking apocalypse...or should that be Mittocalypse?

Romney/Bain profit from massive medicare fraud

Well, I guess that means Mitt's now got Florida sewn up.

191 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 6:45:50pm

re: #179 danarchy

Hey Charles, just wanted to point out a little weirdness. It seems to happen on firefox and IE only when I am actually signed in, but if a user has a name that wraps it also pushes the "Report" button to a new line and looks very odd. Chrome seems fine. The name I kept noticing it on was "Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance"

Oddly, I'm using Firefox (13.0.1) and not seeing this symptom.

192 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jul 18, 2012 7:14:29pm

re: #174 Obdicut

It may very well have been an Iranian terror cell working in Bulgaria.

Highly unlikely to be a random group of Bulgarians, let's put it like that.


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