Ann Romney: ‘We’ve Given All You People Need to Know’

Most tone-deaf campaign ever?
Politics • Views: 43,963

Sometimes a political figure says something so amazingly tone deaf, all you can do is quote it: Ann Romney: We’ve ‘Given All You People Need’.

“You know, you should really look at where Mitt has led his life, and where he’s been financially,” the potential first lady said on ABC’s “Good Morning America.” “He’s a very generous person. We give 10 percent of our income to our church every year. Do you think that is the kind of person who is trying to hide things, or do things? No. He is so good about it. Then, when he was governor of Massachusetts, didn’t take a salary for four years.”

We’ve given all you people need to know and understand about our financial situation and how we live our life,” she added later.

UPDATE at 7/19/12 10:00:06 am

As for Ann Romney’s claim that they give 10% of their income to the Mormon church every year, it should be pointed out that it’s mandatory for Mormons to tithe 10% of their income. It’s not “generosity” if it’s mandatory.

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133 comments
1 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 9:38:19am

The real Romney's: tone deaf elitists who think they're better than the rest of us because they have money.

2 Neutral President  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 9:38:58am

What do you mean, "you people"?

3 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 9:39:10am
Then, when he was governor of Massachusetts, didn’t take a salary for four years

must have been hard years for them if he didn't take a salary...

4 Four More Tears  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 9:40:17am

You people should be more careful about using the words "you people."

5 Gus  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 9:40:26am

"You people" is right up there with using "what?" as a phone greeting.

6 alansfmd  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 9:41:20am

“We’ve given all you people need to know and understand about our financial situation and how we live our life,”

.....then hubby shouldn't have decided to run for President!

7 Obdicut  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 9:42:26am

I'm really confused why she thinks all that the American people need to know about Mitt Romney's finances is that he tithes and took no salary while governor.

People are interested in how Romney's way of making money through Bain works, which companies he invested in, they're interested in the companies that outsourced jobs and closed down plants. This isn't about whether Romney lives large.

She either doesn't get it, or doesn't get it on purpose.

8 Schadenfreude 'r' Us  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 9:42:43am

As far as I know (someone please correct me if you know better), tithing to the Mormon church isn't optional. So it doesn't count as generosity.

9 Lidane  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 9:43:15am

She's not tone deaf. She's explaining things for the dumb libtards who don't understand business.

Why do you hate America?

///

10 Kronocide  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 9:43:28am

Ah, poor Mrs Romney. I wonder how much she'll freak out if she's ever taken out of context purposefully and had her words twisted around.

1% of the shit Obama/Michelle gets and she'll be on the floor shaking and sucking her thumb.

Welcome to politics, the ultimate Social Bloodsport.

11 Achilles Tang  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 9:44:00am

How many taxable jobs did his 10% create with the church, or the other 90% for that matter?

12 kirkspencer  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 9:44:06am

re: #3 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

must have been hard years for them if he didn't take a salary...

The salary of the governor of Massachusetts is less than half the speaking fees he earned last year -- an amount Romney scoffed at as being not very much.

13 Amory Blaine  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 9:44:40am

Even if you take out the "you people", it's still a condescending remark that flies in the face of precedence. So we should just take ol' Mitt at his word eh?

14 allegro  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 9:44:40am

See, here's the thing Ann... you and Mitt are not ENTITLED to the White House. It is for us to hire you to do the job if we thing you're up to it. It is up to US how much we wish to know and what qualifications are important to doing that job successfully.

15 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 9:46:20am

Mowing between storms--BBL.

16 b_Snark  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 9:46:52am

re: #7 Obdicut

I'm really confused why she thinks all that the American people need to know about Mitt Romney's finances is that he tithes and took no salary while governor.

People are interested in how Romney's way of making money through Bain works, which companies he invested in, they're interested in the companies that outsourced jobs and closed down plants. This isn't about whether Romney lives large.

She either doesn't get it, or doesn't get it on purpose.

I'm still wondering why she thinks tithing is a notable virtue.

17 GunstarGreen  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 9:47:15am

To be honest, I'm less concerned about "you people" than I am about her trying to pass off their church-mandated tithing (as mormons) as charity. I mean... what, does she think that the public can't look this shit up?

18 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 9:49:41am

re: #6 alansfmd

“We’ve given all you people need to know and understand about our financial situation and how we live our life,”

...then hubby shouldn't have decided to run for President!

"But we reserve the right to know all about what you do in your life and make rules to mold it into what we want your life to be! And make laws to those ends if need be. Now shut up and take that ultrasound like a woman."

19 Amory Blaine  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 9:51:00am

Where is OBAMAS KISS ARMY membership application?

Image: Kiss_Army_form.jpg

20 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 9:51:44am

Tithing is mandatory in the mormon church, add to that the extra money Mitt was commanded to give to help prop 8 here in california.

21 blueraven  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 9:51:59am

re: #17 GunstarGreen

To be honest, I'm less concerned about "you people" than I am about her trying to pass off their church-mandated tithing (as mormons) as charity. I mean... what, does she think that the public can't look this shit up?

What is done with the tithing that Mormons pay?

Constructing temples, chapels, and other buildings.
Providing operating funds for the Church.
Funding the missionary program (This does not include individual missionary expenses.)
Preparing materials used in Church classes and organizations.
Temple work, family history, and many other important Church functions.
Education.

22 OhNoZombies!  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 9:52:46am

Bitch please! You people...
I'm starting to think Anne Romney is Marie Antoinette reincarnated.
Her attitude is awful!

23 nines09  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 9:53:56am

There seems to be a whole lot of things the Romneys don't want you to know. This for one. The taxes of course. But we do know this about him. We've given all all you people need to know. Have you ever.

24 Four More Tears  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 9:53:59am

re: #21 blueraven

The mall seems to be missing from that list.

[Link: www.businessweek.com...]

Designed by the Church’s real estate arm, City Creek Center is replete with a retractable sunroof, a man-made creek, and fountains that spew fire and water. Apart from elaborate design features, the redevelopment project—estimated by the Mormon-run Desert News to have cost roughly $1 billion—includes offices, condos, apartments, and 5,000 underground parking spots. The mixed-use project is owned and run by mall operator Taubman Centers, which has a long-term lease and revenue-sharing agreement with the LDS Church. Stores will be closed on Sundays.

This kind of project isn’t new to the Mormon Church; the institution owns many commercial enterprises, including hunting grounds, radio stations, newspapers, and insurance companies—not to mention a $1 billion, for-profit cattle-and-citrus ranch in Florida and a Polynesian Cultural Center in Hawaii. Its newest investment will sit directly across the street from the Church’s monumental Temple and Tabernacle.

25 lawhawk  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 9:54:26am

re: #19 Amory Blaine

Somewhere, Chaim Witz is smiling at the free plug.

26 Lidane  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 9:54:27am

re: #22 OhNoZombies!

I'm starting to think Anne Romney is Marie Antoinette reincarnated.

That makes her the perfect First Lady for the modern GOP.

27 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 9:54:49am

re: #22 OhNoZombies!

Bitch please! You people...
I'm starting to think Anne Romney is Marie Antoinette reincarnated.
Her attitude is awful!

more like Leona Helmsley.

28 Schadenfreude 'r' Us  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 9:54:55am

re: #22 OhNoZombies!

Bitch please! You people...
I'm starting to think Anne Romney is Marie Antoinette reincarnated.
Her attitude is awful!

Marie Antoinette's bad attitude was revolutionary propaganda. She was much nicer than that.

29 b_Snark  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 9:55:17am

re: #22 OhNoZombies!

She doesn't deserve the 'bitch' label.

Even in jest that annoys the hell out of me.

30 gwangung  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 9:55:58am

re: #29 b_sharp

She doesn't deserve the 'bitch' label.

Even in jest that annoys the hell out of me.

But I think "arrogant" and "twit" are just fine.

31 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 9:56:13am

re: #17 GunstarGreen

re: #21 blueraven

Giving to a Church is not charity?! Somebody better tell all the rest of the religions this breaking news.

32 dragonath  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 9:56:32am

re: #24 Mocking Jay

Designed by the Church’s real estate arm, City Creek Center is replete with a retractable sunroof, a man-made creek, and fountains that spew fire and water.

Wut.

33 b_Snark  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 9:56:57am

re: #28 Someone Please Beam Me Up!

Marie Antoinette's bad attitude was revolutionary propaganda. She was much nicer than that.

She served cake and cookies.

34 b_Snark  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 9:57:21am

re: #30 gwangung

But I think "arrogant" and "twit" are just fine.

I'll agree with those.

35 Schadenfreude 'r' Us  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 9:57:39am

re: #31 Daniel Ballard

re: #21 blueraven

Giving to a Church is not charity?! Somebody better tell all the rest of the religions this breaking news.

The key word is "giving." Mandatory tithes count on your Schedule A, but not on the Great Ledger of the Virtue of Generosity.
.

36 blueraven  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 9:57:55am

re: #24 Mocking Jay

The mall seems to be missing from that list.

[Link: www.businessweek.com...]

I guess that is covered here

Constructing temples, chapels, and other buildings.

37 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 9:57:58am

re: #22 OhNoZombies!

Bitch please! You people...
I'm starting to think Anne Romney is Marie Antoinette reincarnated.
Her attitude is awful!

Don't insult Marie Antoinette. She was just clueless, not heartless.

38 Mattand  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 9:58:54am

I'm getting sick of hearing from this woman, mainly because if anyone criticizes her, the RWNJs scream about how cruelly she's being treated.

And let's be honest; that's why the campaign is using her. Ann Romney says something worthy of criticism, and suddenly conservatives find their inner feminist.

39 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 9:59:04am

re: #21 blueraven

What is done with the tithing that Mormons pay?

Constructing temples, chapels, and other buildings.
Providing operating funds for the Church.
Funding the missionary program (This does not include individual missionary expenses.)
Preparing materials used in Church classes and organizations.
Temple work, family history, and many other important Church functions.
Education.

You forgot, "Baptizing dead Holocaust victims"

40 Bulworth  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 9:59:52am
Do you think that is the kind of person who is trying to hide things, or do things? No. He is so good about it.

I guess we should take her word for it over any actual evidence. /

41 Four More Tears  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:00:00am

re: #36 blueraven

Heh. When the words "temples" and "chapels" precede them I guess I just assumed that the "other buildings" would be of some religious nature. I am so silly sometimes.

42 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:00:27am

re: #38 Mattand

I'm getting sick of hearing from this woman, mainly because if anyone criticizes her, the RWNJs scream about how cruelly she's being treated.

And let's be honest; that's why the campaign is using her. Ann Romney says something worthy of criticism, and suddenly conservatives find their inner feminist.

Ann Romney has not received even 0.001% of the seething hate and rage that has been directed at Michelle Obama.

43 Mattand  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:00:40am

re: #39 Learned Mother of Zion

You forgot, "Baptizing dead Holocaust victims"

Also, "Fighting Prop 8 in a state where Mormons are barely 1% of the population."

44 blueraven  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:00:43am

re: #31 Rightwingconspirator

re: #21 blueraven

Giving to a Church is not charity?! Somebody better tell all the rest of the religions this breaking news.

I dont recall making that statement. I linked directly to the LDS website.
This is where their money goes. Some of it is charitable, some of it is not.

45 b_Snark  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:00:49am

re: #35 Someone Please Beam Me Up!

The key word is "giving." Mandatory tithes count on your Schedule A, but not on the Great Ledger of the Virtue of Generosity.
.

The old GLoVoG routine.

46 Bulworth  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:01:00am
We give 10 percent of our income to our church every year. Do you think that is the kind of person who is trying to hide things, or do things?

In the absence of actually seeing the full tax return, yes, it does.

47 lawhawk  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:01:26am

re: #41 Mocking Jay

The Mormon Church has quite a diverse real estate portfolio - everything from malls to ranches and at one point owned a department store chain (ZCMI) that was later bought out to May Department Stores.

48 Mattand  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:01:30am

re: #42 Learned Mother of Zion

Ann Romney has not received even 0.001% of the seething hate and rage that has been directed at Michelle Obama.

QFT. I doubt anyone will be calling Ann Romney a Wookie anytime soon.

49 Lidane  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:02:14am

re: #42 Learned Mother of Zion

Ann Romney has not received even 0.001% of the seething hate and rage that has been directed at Michelle Obama.

And she won't. Ann Romney is a straight, white, rich Republican woman.

50 b_Snark  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:02:46am

re: #38 Mattand

I'm getting sick of hearing from this woman, mainly because if anyone criticizes her, the RWNJs scream about how cruelly she's being treated.

And let's be honest; that's why the campaign is using her. Ann Romney says something worthy of criticism, and suddenly conservatives find their inner feminist.

One thing I've observed about Mrs. Romney - she ain't no Michelle Obama.

Not even close.

51 Amory Blaine  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:03:57am

re: #33 b_sharp

She served cake and cookies.

The cake is a lie. Cookies probably too.

52 blueraven  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:04:46am

re: #51 Amory Blaine

The cake is a lie. Cookies probably too.

They steal our cookies.

53 b_Snark  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:05:09am

re: #51 Amory Blaine

The cake is a lie. Cookies probably too.

Ice cream too?

54 dragonath  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:05:44am

Cookie Monster is so very sad.

Also angry.

55 Four More Tears  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:05:47am

re: #51 Amory Blaine

The cake is a lie. Cookies probably too.

Let's be careful talking about cookies while Romney's still the subject.

56 Amory Blaine  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:06:15am

re: #53 b_sharp

Ice cream too?

Nooooo.

57 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:07:46am

Does she realize this only reenforces the image of her and her husband being snobby?

58 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:08:13am

re: #31 Daniel Ballard

re: #21 blueraven

Giving to a Church is not charity?! Somebody better tell all the rest of the religions this breaking news.

"Charity" is defined as:

the voluntary giving of help, typically in the form of money, to those in need.

It's not charity if it's mandatory.

59 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:08:52am

I knew it wouldn't take long for the Dearborn-bashing.

60 lawhawk  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:10:30am

The Tax Code (IRC) includes a deduction for charitable giving so as to encourage more, and is available if you're itemizing deductions (Schedule A).

Giving 10% to the Church is encouraged by the Tax Code, but it also can help figure out what kind of taxes he's paid in the past based on what scant information he's released to date.

61 Amory Blaine  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:11:08am

re: #46 Bulworth

In the absence of actually seeing the full tax return, yes, it does.

Tony Soprano gives to his church too.

62 blueraven  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:11:13am

Israeli Ambassador Michael Oren on MSNBC, is saying they dont know who attacked the bus, and that it was definitely linked to Hezzbolah.
Netanyahu: "Iran behind attack"

What is the real story here?

[Link: www.timesofisrael.com...]

63 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:11:47am

re: #58 Charles Johnson

There are Mormons who do not tithe, or at a far less level. They remain Mormons in any case.

64 Mattand  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:11:53am

re: #57 HappyWarrior

Does she realize this only reenforces the image of her and her husband being snobby?

Honestly, I don't even think it enters into the equation. I'm not sure if Ann Romney was born into the same wealth as her husband, but she's been ensconced in that world long enough. Anyone making less than $250,000 a year are probably "you people" to her.

65 lawhawk  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:13:08am

re: #62 blueraven

It's possible they're not buying what the Bulgarians are saying, or they have more information about the bomber and don't want to let those who might have connections to the bomber know that they're on to them. I'd lean towards the latter. Hold the information close and use the information blackout to go after those involved.

66 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:13:58am

re: #63 Daniel Ballard

There are Mormons who do not tithe, or at a far less level. They remain Mormons in any case.

That's irrelevant to the point. The Mormon church says tithing is required. Charity is voluntary. The two concepts are mutually exclusive.

67 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:16:45am

re: #64 Mattand

Honestly, I don't even think it enters into the equation. I'm not sure if Ann Romney was born into the same wealth as her husband, but she's been ensconced in that world long enough. Anyone making less than $250,000 a year are probably "you people" to her.

I am not sure either. It's funny. I remember hearing that she was going to be used to emphasis that Mitt's got a human side to him but really I think she's only reenforced and in some cases such as this one deepened the belief that her husband doesn't give a damn about anyone making less than 250 K.

68 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:17:41am

re: #62 blueraven

Israeli Ambassador Michael Oren on MSNBC, is saying they dont know who attacked the bus, and that it was definitely linked to Hezzbolah.
Netanyahu: "Iran behind attack"

What is the real story here?

[Link: www.timesofisrael.com...]

I suppose we'll learn more soon. Iran has been very busy with terrorism lately so it seems reasonable that they'd be the first suspect. For me the chief reason that they may not be responsible is that the attack was successful. Muslim terrorists all love to kill jews so it could be any combination of groups. I doubt the Iranians would hesitate to help an Al Qaeda trained jihadi, especially if the target was Israeli.

69 dragonath  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:17:49am

re: #55 Mocking Jay

Let's be careful talking about cookies while Romney's still the subject.

[Embedded content]

Wow. That despondent look that Romney gives the cookies is just amazing. And everyone just kind of stares at him.

70 Obdicut  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:17:50am

re: #63 Daniel Ballard

There are Mormons who do not tithe, or at a far less level. They remain Mormons in any case.

But the church requires Mormons to tithe at 10%.

71 iossarian  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:18:21am

re: #63 Daniel Ballard

There are Mormons who do not tithe, or at a far less level. They remain Mormons in any case.

I'm not going to debate the meaning of "charity" per se, but when folks give money away, I tend to look at where that money actually ends up rather than the act itself of giving.

The Mormon Church, in my eyes, does not have a great reputation for actually spending money in ways that make people (especially the less fortunate and marginalized of society) better off. Thus, the fact that the Romneys have squillions of dollars lying around that they can shovel over to the Church, without impinging upon their horse-dancing activities, does not really raise my opinion of them.

72 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:19:57am

YOU PEOPLE having a good day?

This person wonder's what planet the Romney's are from.

73 Four More Tears  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:21:57am

re: #72 ggt

YOU PEOPLE having a good day?

This person wonder's what planet the Romney's are from.

Third planet of the Thurston Howell system.

74 Big Steve  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:22:14am

I have always believed that donations to churches should not fall under the charitable giving deductions of the IRA. Tithing is no more than club membership dues.

75 jaunte  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:22:58am
Ann Romney also echoed Mitt Romney’s response to ads from Barack Obama’s presidential campaign criticizing the company Romney founded, Bain Capital, for investing in companies that outsourced jobs.

“I’m not disappointed,” she said. “I’m not surprised. I believe it was beneath the dignity of the office of the president to do something as egregious as that.

Romney putting his wife out front as a shield is a real sign that those criticisms are having a serious effect.

76 Sionainn  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:23:11am

re: #42 Learned Mother of Zion

Ann Romney has not received even 0.001% of the seething hate and rage that has been directed at Michelle Obama.

...or their daughters.

77 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:23:46am

re: #73 Mocking Jay

Third planet of the Thurston Howell system.

Which happens to be called Urananus by most of the other inhabited planets in the system..

78 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:23:58am

YOU PEOPLE is an objectification.

Us and You People.

Not a good way to campaign.

Nice Christian that she is.

79 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:24:36am

re: #75 jaunte

Romney putting his wife out front as a shield is a real sign that those criticisms are having a serious effect.

Yet it was awesome for one of her husband's surrogates to suggest that the president "start acting American." It's okay for Mitt and his surrogates to suggest that the president is somehow unAmerican but it's a horror to actually examine what Mitt actually did at Bain.

80 aagcobb  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:24:39am

re: #67 HappyWarrior

I am not sure either. It's funny. I remember hearing that she was going to be used to emphasis that Mitt's got a human side to him but really I think she's only reenforced and in some cases such as this one deepened the belief that her husband doesn't give a damn about anyone making less than 250 K.

I think he might feel a certain amount of sympathy for ordinary people in the abstract; he did enact near universal health care in Massachusetts. He just doesn't have a clue what their lives are like, and has stereotypical views of them as either being not too bright, lazy or possessing other character flaws which keep them from succeeding like him and his pals.

81 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:24:47am

re: #66 Charles Johnson

The way I look at it (more a religious tolerance view than political) they can say anything they want. But they can not take the money, like a person owed money or the IRS. The tithe is like any other code of conduct from a church. At the end of the day it's optional. One would still be a Catholic or Mormon or Jewish, with or without full compliance with church or temple directives.

82 Four More Tears  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:24:48am

From the "something you don't see everyday" department.

Image: space-shuttle-enterprise-06-04-12-01.jpg

83 jaunte  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:25:23am

re: #79 HappyWarrior

"Why are you being mean to Mrs. Romney!!"

84 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:25:40am
85 OhNoZombies!  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:26:21am

re: #29 b_sharp

I understand. angry typing is bad, and I should feel bad. I have a no-no word regarding women as well. It's just the arrogance and disdain this woman shows towards anyone she deems unworthy infuriates me, and it just came out.

86 blueraven  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:26:37am

re: #74 Big Steve

I have always believed that donations to churches should not fall under the charitable giving deductions of the IRA. Tithing is no more than club membership dues.

My husband is Catholic. They have separate drives for building funds and other non-charitable type donations. At least that is the process in the small church he attends.

87 A Mom Anon  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:27:01am

Spoiled brat is what comes to mind,but what do I know,I'm just an insignificant little person,one of 'those people'. I think they should both just keep yapping away about how butthurt they are right up til election day.

88 Flounder  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:28:14am

re: #86 blueraven

And you get your name on a plaque!

89 Sionainn  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:28:21am

re: #71 iossarian

I'm not going to debate the meaning of "charity" per se, but when folks give money away, I tend to look at where that money actually ends up rather than the act itself of giving.

The Mormon Church, in my eyes, does not have a great reputation for actually spending money in ways that make people (especially the less fortunate and marginalized of society) better off. Thus, the fact that the Romneys have squillions of dollars lying around that they can shovel over to the Church, without impinging upon their horse-dancing activities, does not really raise my opinion of them.

Ooh, I love that word.

90 blueraven  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:28:33am

Corporations are not YOU people, my friends.

91 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:28:34am

re: #86 blueraven

My husband is Catholic. They have separate drives for building funds and other non-charitable type donations. At least that is the process in the small church he attends.

Yeah, as far back as I can remember for each RC church I've attended, they publish detailed pie-charts in the bulletin regarding the budget. I know how much our nun and priest make etc.

92 Big Steve  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:30:20am

re: #81 Daniel Ballard

The way I look at it (more a religious tolerance view than political) they can say anything they want. But they can not take the money, l

A said fact about my home city of Houston is that the number one tourist attraction is the Lakewood Church (Joel Osteen). I had a cousin in town a year ago and she was dying to attend a Lakewood service. Keep in mind that this church bought the old Houston Rockets basketball arena and converted it so you can get a picture of the size. Anyway, I took her to a service which was a first for me also. Man-o-man they have the art of passing the plate and making you feel guilty down to a science. When I didn't fork over apparently enough I thought the aisle guardsman were going to frisk me.

93 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:30:52am

re: #81 Daniel Ballard

The way I look at it (more a religious tolerance view than political) they can say anything they want. But they can not take the money, like a person owed money or the IRS. The tithe is like any other code of conduct from a church. At the end of the day it's optional. One would still be a Catholic or Mormon or Jewish, with or without full compliance with church or temple directives.

No, it's not optional. It's a Mormon "celestial commandment" to tithe 10% of their income. You don't go to heaven if you don't tithe. That's about as mandatory as it gets, for people who believe in their religion.

Yes, they let people get away with not doing it, but it's rare in the Mormon church; something like 80% of Mormons do pay the mandatory tithes.

94 Interesting Times  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:30:57am

re: #71 iossarian

The Mormon Church, in my eyes, does not have a great reputation for actually spending money in ways that make people (especially the less fortunate and marginalized of society) better off.

Or, if you want that sentiment in picture format...

95 Amory Blaine  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:31:00am

Do their charitable endeavors include their campaign for prop 8?

96 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:31:28am

re: #92 Big Steve

A said fact about my home city of Houston is that the number one tourist attraction is the Lakewood Church (Joel Osteen). I had a cousin in town a year ago and she was dying to attend a Lakewood service. Keep in mind that this church bought the old Houston Rockets basketball arena and converted it so you can get a picture of the size. Anyway, I took her to a service which was a first for me also. Man-o-man they have the art of passing the plate and making you feel guilty down to a science. When I didn't fork over apparently enough I thought the aisle guardsman were going to frisk me.

They also accept Visa, Mastercard, American Express and PayPal.

Although untraceable, undocumented Cash is preferred.

97 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:31:42am

I think what upsets me most is if you point out this snobby attitude, you're accused of hating them for their wealth and being jealous. It's a pathetic complex we have when it comes to the very wealthy in this country. Good for you, you're successful but that doesn't mean I have to worship you and treat you as if your finances make you beyond criticism. Read somewhere yesterday that six of the Walton heirs have more than 40% of the population in this country. If that figure doesn't make even the strident capitalist wonder why some people don't see capitalism in the best light, then I can't help ya.

98 Sionainn  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:31:47am

re: #79 HappyWarrior

Yet it was awesome for one of her husband's surrogates to suggest that the president "start acting American." It's okay for Mitt and his surrogates to suggest that the president is somehow unAmerican but it's a horror to actually examine what Mitt actually did at Bain.

As Ann Romney said, it's egregious. Puhlease.

99 aagcobb  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:33:27am

re: #97 HappyWarrior

I think what upsets me most is if you point out this snobby attitude, you're accused of hating them for their wealth and being jealous. It's a pathetic complex we have when it comes to the very wealthy in this country. Good for you, you're successful but that doesn't mean I have to worship you and treat you as if your finances make you beyond criticism. Read somewhere yesterday that six of the Walton heirs have more than 40% of the population in this country. If that figure doesn't make even the strident capitalist wonder why some people don't see capitalism in the best light, then I can't help ya.

The mere fact they are wealthy shows they have earned God's favor. You people don't need to know anything else./

100 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:33:42am

re: #97 HappyWarrior

Read somewhere yesterday that six of the Walton heirs have more than 40% of the population in this country.

what does this mean?

101 blueraven  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:33:55am

re: #95 Amory Blaine

Do their charitable endeavors include their campaign for prop 8?

That goes under "education"

102 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:34:12am

re: #99 aagcobb

The mere fact they are wealthy shows they have earned God's favor. You people don't need to know anything else./

annointed is the word that comes to mind.

103 iossarian  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:34:15am

re: #94 Interesting Times

Or, if you want that sentiment in picture format...

Well, to be fair most established churches spend a lot of money on glitzy stuff.

The issue I have with the Mormon Church is I'm not aware that they do any of the "other" stuff to go along with the glitz.

I should not even be too disparaging about "glitziness". The human race is in many ways better off for the amount of art and architecture that has been driven by various church investments.

104 Four More Tears  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:34:41am

re: #100 ggt

what does this mean?

Means that they have as much money as the bottom 40% of Americans.

105 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:34:48am

re: #100 ggt

what does this mean?

Six of the Walton heirs have as much cash as 40% of the population.

106 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:35:55am

re: #104 Mocking Jay

re: #105 HappyWarrior

thanks!

107 Four More Tears  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:36:33am

re: #105 HappyWarrior

Six of the Walton heirs have as much cash as 40% of the population.

Well, not cash. That's the sum of their assets.

108 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:37:27am

re: #106 ggt

re: #105 HappyWarrior

thanks!

Not a problem. Really, I am no mind-reader of the dead but I think when Smith was writing Wealth of Nations, he didn't intend to have a system that would result in something like that.

109 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:38:15am

re: #105 HappyWarrior

Six of the Walton heirs have as much cash as 40% of the population.

Don't forget they are the "job creators" creating the shittiest jobs in the entire U.S. economy: hiring workers for minimum wage, no benefits, horrible working conditions, union-busting, forcing smaller competitors out of business.

110 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:38:21am

re: #108 HappyWarrior

Not a problem. Really, I am no mind-reader of the dead but I think when Smith was writing Wealth of Nations, he didn't intend to have a system that would result in something like that.

You could be a Speaker for the Dead.

111 blueraven  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:39:52am

re: #109 Learned Mother of Zion

Don't forget they are the "job creators" creating the shittiest jobs in the entire U.S. economy: hiring workers for minimum wage, no benefits, horrible working conditions, union-busting.

And other "developing economies" as well, under far worse conditions.

112 Romantic Heretic  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:40:36am

re: #108 HappyWarrior

Not a problem. Really, I am no mind-reader of the dead but I think when Smith was writing Wealth of Nations, he didn't intend to have a system that would result in something like that.

He is not a wise and good man who does not at all times prefer the public interest to his own. - Adam Smith

113 wrenchwench  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:42:20am

re: #109 Learned Mother of Zion

Don't forget they are the "job creators" creating the shittiest jobs in the entire U.S. economy: hiring workers for minimum wage, no benefits, horrible working conditions, union-busting.

Oh yeah, union busting. One of the reasons given for pulling the call center out of Silver City (see previous thread) was that the workers were trying to organize.

114 Interesting Times  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:42:29am

re: #109 Learned Mother of Zion

Don't forget they are the "job creators" creating the shittiest jobs in the entire U.S. economy: hiring workers for minimum wage, no benefits, horrible working conditions, union-busting, forcing smaller competitors out of business.

Walmart is the largest food stamp recipient in the country

115 Big Steve  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:43:51am

re: #93 Charles Johnson

To be fair.....Romney had a reported gross income of $21M last year and paid $4M in charitable donations. So about 19%. So only half goes to the LDS. In 2010 most of the remainder of his charitable donations were to the Tyler Foundation which funds epilepsy research.

116 blueraven  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:44:29am

re: #114 Interesting Times

Walmart is the largest food stamp recipient in the country

Wait, that cant be true; government has no role in the success of a business.

/

117 gwangung  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:44:51am

re: #115 Big Steve

To be fair...Romney had a reported gross income of $21M last year and paid $4M in charitable donations. So about 19%. So only half goes to the LDS. In 2010 most of the remainder of his charitable donations were to the Tyler Foundation which funds epilepsy research.

You would think an adept person would bring that up more.

118 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:45:22am

re: #109 Learned Mother of Zion

Don't forget they are the "job creators" creating the shittiest jobs in the entire U.S. economy: hiring workers for minimum wage, no benefits, horrible working conditions, union-busting, forcing smaller competitors out of business.

Exactly. Someone the other day was extolling Bain for saving the jobs of Staples, Burger King, and some other minimum wage paying businesses. And saying that he saved those jobs. I didn't comment about it at the time but I couldn't help thinking what a letdown it would be to a skilled craftsman to lose a good paying manufacturing job to go flip hamburgers or run a register. It is not always the number of jobs saved, it is the nature of the jobs saved.

119 OhNoZombies!  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:47:14am

Perception is 9/10's of the law, so
upon further thought, I think my reaction was so strong because she was talking down to Robin Roberts and it made my spidey senses tingle. I don't like to admit it, but I may have a hint of bias against Mormons. I may have jerked my little brown knee!

120 Big Steve  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:47:16am

re: #117 gwangung

You would think an adept person would bring that up more.

Maybe he doesn't want his Bishop hitting him up for more...

121 Sionainn  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:48:43am

re: #115 Big Steve

To be fair...Romney had a reported gross income of $21M last year and paid $4M in charitable donations. So about 19%. So only half goes to the LDS. In 2010 most of the remainder of his charitable donations were to the Tyler Foundation which funds epilepsy research.

Nope.

ut I then went on to describe The Tyler Foundation as a Boston-based charity that helps kids with epilepsy, an assumption I made after a Google search (en exact match in Boston? Of course it's the right "Tyler Foundation"!)

Well, a sharp-eyed reader did some digging on this and discovered that I was a bonehead. Specifically, the reader found that I had the wrong Tyler Foundation. The right Tyler Foundation, it appears, is a private legal entity controlled and funded by the Romneys that gives smaller gifts to other charities.

This was a stupid mistake on my part, and I apologize for it.

So, what is this "Tyler Foundation" that gets so much of Mitt Romney's money?

It's a private Boston-based legal entity that had more than $10 million in assets at the end of 2010.

Read more: [Link: www.businessinsider.com...]

123 wrenchwench  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:51:08am

re: #115 Big Steve

To be fair...Romney had a reported gross income of $21M last year and paid $4M in charitable donations. So about 19%. So only half goes to the LDS. In 2010 most of the remainder of his charitable donations were to the Tyler Foundation which funds epilepsy research.

Thing is, that's what he was doing when he knew he was running for president. I'd like to know what he was doing when he was getting all that experience on which he bases his qualifications for the job.

Somebody asked me yesterday, "What about college transcripts? Don't you think those should be released?" I answered that it was and should be optional, but if the person is running on what a great GPA they had, and then doesn't release those transcripts, that doesn't look good.

124 wrenchwench  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:53:07am

re: #119 OhNoZombies!

Perception is 9/10's of the law, so
upon further thought, I think my reaction was so strong because she was talking down to Robin Roberts and it made my spidey senses tingle. I don't like to admit it, but I may have a hint of bias against Mormons. I may have jerked my little brown knee!

Not updinging the bias, but updinging the recognition of it. Don't abuse the broad brush.

125 JAFO  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:55:22am

The top Google search result for "you people" is already Ann Romney.

126 gwangung  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:55:32am

re: #121 Sionainn

Yeah, pretty much. The Romney's Tyler Foundation has $8-10 million in assets, gives, $400-800K per year (quite standard for foundations of that size).

You can look them up on Guidestar.

127 labman57  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 10:57:14am

Politically speaking, it's not wise to display complete disdain for the American people .... but the Romneys -- so accustomed to dictating their wants and wishes to "lesser folks" -- simply can't help themselves.

128 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 11:01:28am

re: #42 Learned Mother of Zion

Ann Romney has not received even 0.001% of the seething hate and rage that has been directed at Michelle Obama.

Nor should she, unless we want to pass for Freepers. Criticize her stupid involvement in the campaign comments ad lib.

129 majii  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 12:21:48pm

re: #2 ArchangelMichael

All of us who don't fit into her socioeconomic group. We're the peasants, she's the lady of the manor born.

130 Tigger2  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 1:39:50pm

I'm sure glad some rich lady is telling me all I need to to know, I hate having to think on my own. LOL
The stupid and elitist tone of her comment burns.

131 Pacific moderate  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:46:21pm

Oh well, for me Romney and his clan have given me all I need to know ;-)

132 Ming  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 5:09:54pm

About tithing to the Mormon Church, in one of Andrew Sullivan's blog posts today [Link: andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com...] a reader raises an interesting question:

Maybe he's not releasing his returns because he did not tithe enough in previous years.

Remember, the Mormon church requires your to contribute 10% of your income to the church. Without it, you are not allowed to enter the temple buildings and perform certain ceremonies. They call it temple endowment. The only way the church verifies the 10% claim is via self-declaration. Once a year, you go to your bishop, who asks if you did indeed tithe enough. If you say yes, you are done. This meeting is called "tithe settlement meeting". The idea is that you will not dare to lie to the bishop, who represents the church itself. Apparently, you do not have to bring any proof if you do not want to.

Now, in the one return that he has released, you will notice that Mitt has contributed near-exactly 10% to the church. What if he had fallen a tad short in some of the previous years? Mitt cares a lot about his church, and his standing in it. That standing would take a massive hit if it turns out that he was, er, "cheating" - even a little bit.

(end quote from Andrew's reader)

Maybe Mitt always contributed 10% to the church, every year, as he told the church, and presumably told his wife. Will we ever know?

133 danhenry1  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 8:43:57pm

re: #58 Charles Johnson

And to think, it is deductible on your taxes.

Not charitable? What is it then?


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