Romney’s New Ad Pioneers a New Low Standard of Dishonest Editing

Or, how to make someone sound like they said the opposite of what they really said
Politics • Views: 36,712
Youtube Video

One of the big stories of this election is the absolutely blatant dishonesty of the Romney campaign. In these cynical days, everybody expects politicians to stretch, exaggerate, and slant their talking points to benefit themselves. But Mitt Romney is pioneering a relatively new type of presidential campaign distortion (much like he pioneered outsourcing), the Breitbart/O’Keefe-style fraudulently edited video. With much higher production values.

There’s just no other word for it but “fraud.” Romney’s newest campaign advertisement uses the recording of Obama’s “If you’ve got a business” statement — but they edited out most of what Obama said, to give a completely false impression. In your face.

Greg Sargent has more; the section in bold is what the Romney campaign had to cut out, in order to smear Obama as “anti-business:” Romney Video Deceptively Edits Obama Speech to Make It Sound Anti-Business.

Let me tell you something. There are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there. If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business, you didn’t build that.

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194 comments

1 Kragar  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 2:42:45pm

James O'Keefe is working for the Mittster now?

2 S.D.  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 2:43:20pm

re: #1 Kragar

James O'Keefe is working for the Mittster now?

Nah, production quality is way too high...

3 po8crg  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 2:51:49pm

So Romney believes that living in a country with Government of the people, by the people and for the people doesn't help entrepreneurs to succeed, then, does he?

Then why in the hell does he want to run that Government?

4 researchok  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 2:52:13pm

There must be a boatload of shovels in Romney's closet.

5 Obdicut  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 2:53:10pm

The 'that' that Obama refers to is referring to infrastructure. Taking this statement out of context gives the impression otherwise. It's simply a flat-out lie.

6 freetoken  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 2:54:43pm

re: #5 Obdicut

"context" is for wimps.

7 Kragar  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 2:55:26pm

re: #2 S.D.

Nah, production quality is way too high...

Yeah, I see he's pushing a new fail

James O'Keefe Fails To Find A Scandal, Union And Public Works Edition

In a series of fast cuts, the union leaders are shown advising the supposed ESR employees to "just call it a jobs program for workers," explaining how they lobby officials, and saying that they are "good with [Sens. Kirsten] Gillibrand and [Charles] Schumer." The video repeatedly shows Hutchings saying, "It's awful hard for anybody to vote against a jobs bill right now" -- the implication being, apparently, that anyone will vote to fund any kind of jobs, even useless ones like repeatedly digging and filling holes.

The Project Veritas press release accompanying the video claims it shows that "UNION BOSSES LOVED THE IDEA!" of funding "a fake company that literally does nothing but dig holes and then put the dirt back," and during the video, O'Keefe claims that "union bosses expressed the willingness of public officials and lawmakers to secure funding for projects just like ours."

But the raw footage of the video shows no such thing. In the raw footage, the union leaders are highly skeptical of Earth Supply and Renewal, and they never promise to help "secure funding" for it.

In the raw footage, the union leaders repeatedly ask the "ESR employees" about the purpose of their projects. When they can't give any, Hutchings and the Tocci brothers gently propose they take on more useful work. Hutchings asks if they "dig prior to construction projects" for "historical artifacts." Ron Tocci asks if they analyze or remediate soil, then later says, "I'm just trying to get a hook on how you sell your product." When one actor says, "There are people who have seen merit in what we're doing, especially from the green, more green circles," an incredulous Tocci replies, "Well, why would they see that as -- besides the jobs that you would create, what are you doing for the environment?"

8 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 2:58:41pm

re: #3 po8crg

So Romney believes that living in a country with Government of the people, by the people and for the people doesn't help entrepreneurs to succeed, then, does he?

Then why in the hell does he want to run that Government?

Because he's rich, he's "The Elite," and he's entitled to the job. Obviously this country was wrong to put a man not born to the purple in the White House 4 years ago.

//

9 Kragar  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 2:59:07pm

Romney Meets With Leader of Radical Christian Group

When Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney met privately this week with Tony Perkins, president of the Family Research Council, he sought the counsel of a leader who, just days before, selected as his right-hand man a retired general known for his extreme contempt for Muslims.

Romney, hoping to draw the same kind of help organizing evangelical voters that Perkins gave former U.S. Sen. Rick Santorum during the primaries, sought Perkins' input on potential running mates and "family" issues, barely 24 hours after FRC announced the hiring of retired Gen. William "Jerry" Boykin as executive vice president, in charge of day-to-day operations. It's a bold move, and one that makes FRC's extremism just a little harder to ignore.

10 erik_t  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 3:00:02pm

This can't be! There's no way Romney's campaign is acting dishonorably in any way. You see, Mitt Romney tithes and didn't draw a salary as governor of Massachusetts. Doesn't that clarify things?

/

11 freetoken  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 3:00:13pm

Big Daddy approves of what Mitt is doing:

12 Schadenfreude 'r' Us  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 3:02:37pm

re: #11 freetoken

At last Romney attacks, looks better.Keep it up! Still needs to address all Hispanics, 80 per cent Multi- cultural. Dole got 20, Bush 45.

And just what is he going to say to them? Inquiring minds want to know.

13 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 3:03:11pm

And he has the nerve to whine like a little brat when his record at Bain is brought to attention. Mitt seems to think everyone but him has to follow the rules. Same as at prep school, same now as a prospective presidential nominee.

14 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 3:03:52pm

re: #9 Kragar

Romney Meets With Leader of Radical Christian Group

Let's not forget that Tony Perkins had no problem using David Duke's mailing list for prospective supporters.

15 Achilles Tang  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 3:04:12pm

Romney is not just reading Drudge, he is taking his cue from WND loons. They've been on this language simplification thing for days.

16 Kragar  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 3:04:13pm

re: #12 Someone Please Beam Me Up!

And just what is he going to say to them? Inquiring minds want to know.

"Trust the rich white people to take care of you people, like we did before you all got so uppity."

17 lawhawk  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 3:07:06pm

Not quite OT, since we're talking politics, dishonesty, and outright lying:

18 darthstar  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 3:07:35pm

re: #12 Someone Please Beam Me Up!

And just what is he going to say to them? Inquiring minds want to know.

Please don't use your leaf blowers before 10am.

19 A Sockpuppet's Sockpuppet  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 3:07:36pm

I put up a page about this earlier. [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

The Romney campaign managers know how to influence their audience.

20 Kragar  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 3:09:40pm

Romney surrogate has a message for minorities/poor

21 allegro  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 3:09:41pm

re: #12 Someone Please Beam Me Up!

And just what is he going to say to them? Inquiring minds want to know.

Romney: If you can't see that I'm the best choice for you then you are just like all the other stupid Mexicans wanting something for nothing.

///

22 freetoken  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 3:10:58pm

hehe...


Romney Tailors Nursing Home Visit To Those Who Will Still Be Alive On Election Day

While making campaign stops in Ohio Thursday, Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney stopped by the Morningside Assisted-Living Center, where he talked exclusively to elderly men and women who will still be alive and physically able to vote this November. "President Obama has given us a failed economic policy, a job-killing health care plan, and out-of-control government spending, but if I'm elected, I can promise a better, brighter America for you, you, you, not you, definitely not you, and…you," Romney said while shaking the outstretched hands of only the healthiest-looking residents in the Morningside dining hall. "Together, the five of us can help turn this country back into the thriving, prosperous place it once was."

At press time, Romney was waiting for his advisers to check the medical records of a smiling 92-year-old woman before returning her wave.

23 A Sockpuppet's Sockpuppet  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 3:11:28pm

re: #11 freetoken

Big Daddy approves of what Mitt is doing:

[Embedded content]

When did Big Daddy take the time from inflating his own ego to pucker up for someone else?

24 A Sockpuppet's Sockpuppet  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 3:12:03pm

re: #17 lawhawk

Not quite OT, since we're talking politics, dishonesty, and outright lying:

[Embedded content]

All it costs is $3.00?

25 Kragar  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 3:12:25pm

re: #22 freetoken

hehe...

Romney Tailors Nursing Home Visit To Those Who Will Still Be Alive On Election Day

You really need to say it was from the Onion, because I was totally buying it at first.

26 darthstar  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 3:13:12pm

re: #25 Kragar

You really need to say it was from the Onion, because I was totally buying it at first.

It's only believable because it is.

27 A Sockpuppet's Sockpuppet  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 3:13:30pm

re: #25 Kragar

You really need to say it was from the Onion, because I was totally buying it at first.

A little too much Poe for you?

28 freetoken  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 3:16:57pm

re: #23 b_sharp

When did Big Daddy take the time from inflating his own ego to pucker up for someone else?

Big Daddy is not "pucker"ing up to anyone else. He is simply, now via twitter, giving his marching orders to the minions in the far reaches of the 'verse.

29 jamesfirecat  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 3:17:49pm

I wonder how many of these outright lying adds we have to see before there's no one left on this board who can admit they would vote for Romney openly? At this point he's not even a candidate he's just a brand, vote GOP, because otherwise you'd have to vote democrat!

30 Kragar  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 3:18:44pm

All Military Personnel Allowed to Wear Uniforms at Pride: DOD

The Office of the Assistant Secretary of Defense in Washington sent a memo to all branches of the military Thursday afternoon granting the approval.

"Based on our current knowledge of the event and existing policies," the memo read, "we hereby are granting approval for service members in uniform to participate in this year's parade, provided service members participate in their personal capacity and ensure the adherence to Military Service standards of appearance and wear of the military uniform."

Local commanders previously had the authority to grant military personnel to wear their uniforms. However, approval at a higher level was granted "now since the event has garnered national media attention," the memo stated.

Obviously this means God's sheltering hand will no longer something blah blah and terrible blah blah will happen.

31 mikec6666  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 3:20:59pm

The right is hammering this home. This is quite a insidious meme. When you include it with the crappy economy, it paints a picture of an economically clueless president, which is of course exactly what they intended.

32 A Sockpuppet's Sockpuppet  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 3:21:01pm

re: #30 Kragar

All Military Personnel Allowed to Wear Uniforms at Pride: DOD

Obviously this means God's sheltering hand will no longer something blah blah and terrible blah blah will happen.

I've heard that blah, blah before. It meant nothing then. It means even less now.

33 dragonath  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 3:21:21pm

I dunno about you guys, but only a desperate campaign would release an ad like this at this point in the election cycle. These attacks are nothing new.

Also, it's smarmy as all hell.

34 Kragar  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 3:26:59pm

A possible music video for Mitt's campaign

35 freetoken  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 3:28:22pm

re: #31 mikec6666

re: #33 Fred Galt

I don't know... the Salem Communications outlets like HotAir and Townhall are really running with this "you didn't build it" stuff.

It strikes at the heart of what the entire 20th century creation of the advertising industry created - the culture of the Self.

The irony is of course that nominally, according their holy writings, Christians are supposed to lose their self, but in modern American Fundamentalism the self is now God, a truth which is so blindly ignored that only humor sites like The Onion or The Daily Show can do it justice.

36 Kragar  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 3:33:26pm

Why am I not surprised in the least?

Bachmann Stands By Widely Condemned Islamophobic Attack, Finds Ally In Glenn Beck

During an appearance on Glenn Beck’s radio show on Thursday, Bachmann reiterated her suspicions that Clinton’s deputy chief of staff, Huma Abedin, has ties to the Muslim Brotherhood, noting, “her late father who’s now deceased was a part of the Muslim Brotherhood. Her brother was a part of the Muslim Brotherhood, and her mother was a part of what’s called the Muslim Sisterhood.” Earlier this week, Bachmann accused Abedin of working on behalf of the Muslim Brotherhood in a letter with four colleagues to the State Department’s Inspector General demanding an investigation.

“[D]id she have to go through the same sort of process that anyone else has to go to,” Bachmann asked. “Did they check the boxes…That’s all we’re doing is asking a question.”

Bachmann also tore into her colleague from Minnesota, Rep. Keith Ellison (D-MN) — one of two Muslim Representatives in Congress — and complained that he is obstructing her request for an investigation into Abedin’s alleged connections to the terrorist organization:

BECK: Okay. So when you wrote this letter, then Keith Ellison comes out. And Keith Ellison is ‑‑ he has a record of being the Mafia hitman.

BACHMANN: Well, he has a long record of being associated with CAIR and with the Muslim Brotherhood. CAIR is an unindicted co‑conspirator, as stated in the large terrorist financing case that we’ve had in the United States of America and so he came out and essentially wanted to shut down the inspectors general from even looking into any of the questions that we were asking. [...]

We’re asking that the inspectors general answer these questions, and Keith Ellison is trying to shut this, these questions down from getting addressed.

37 freetoken  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 3:33:27pm

I think we missed this boat:


Thousands of YouTube partners now make six figures a year

Thousands of YouTube partners are making over $100,000 a year, according to Google SVP and Chief Business Officer Nikesh Arora. The number was shared during Google’s second quarter earnings call on Thursday, where Arora pointed to YouTube as an acquisition that has paid off for the company.

YouTube had previously put the number of six-figure earners in the hundreds. Arora recalled during the call how the press used to doubt whether YouTube could ever achieve a successful business model when the search giant acquired the site in 2006. “I think we can declare we found our model,” he said.

[...]

Google has been increasingly investing into programming on YouTube. The site unveiled a premium channel initiative late last year that included a reported $100 million in advances both for YouTube stars and traditional media brands who took their assets to YouTube as a result. And earlier Thursday, it announced that it is rewarding some 1,500 YouTube producers for successes with their channels on the site, with 80 of them receiving a golden play button, and everyone getting $500 gift certificates that can be put toward buying video equipment.

Maybe an LGF channel on Youtube?

38 A Sockpuppet's Sockpuppet  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 3:40:36pm

re: #37 freetoken

I think we missed this boat:

Thousands of YouTube partners now make six figures a year

Maybe an LGF channel on Youtube?

Would that be Channel 666?

40 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 3:44:32pm

re: #35 freetoken

re: #33 Fred Galt

I don't know... the Salem Communications outlets like HotAir and Townhall are really running with this "you didn't build it" stuff.

It strikes at the heart of what the entire 20th century creation of the advertising industry created - the culture of the Self.

The irony is of course that nominally, according their holy writings, Christians are supposed to lose their self, but in modern American Fundamentalism the self is now God, a truth which is so blindly ignored that only humor sites like The Onion or The Daily Show can do it justice.

That's because they think they can worship at two altars, the other being the The First Church of Rand, where they tell themselves that their work is their own, their success their own, and the only person who should benefit from it is themselves. That society works best when it's dog-eat-dog, that poverty or joblessness is a personal failing, that society doesn't owe you anything and you will always be rewarded for hard work.

In short, it's a fairy tale they use to drive their "outrage" over being asked to pay their fair share, because their "success" was totally their own and nobody helped them get it.

41 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 3:47:37pm

re: #39 Kragar

Rubio knows all about that being the son of refugees...

//

42 blueraven  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 3:48:51pm

re: #5 Obdicut

The 'that' that Obama refers to is referring to infrastructure. Taking this statement out of context gives the impression otherwise. It's simply a flat-out lie.

It is a lie. If he wants to argue the point Obama was actually making, that would be legitimate. But he would rather lie than present a cogent argument about the role of government.

That really says a lot about his character.

43 dragonath  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 3:51:29pm

re: #35 freetoken

Oh, I'm just trying to say that these attacks would have been a whole lot more effective if Fox News hadn't started telegraphing the attacks a half week in advance.

The people that Salem Communications targets are already the most impressionable people out there.

44 Kragar  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 3:54:49pm

re: #40 Targetpractice

6 Things Rich People Need to Stop Saying

#1. "Stop Asking for Handouts! I Never Got Help from Anybody!"

What They Think They're Saying:

"I pulled myself up by my bootstraps!"

What We Hear:

"Because I didn't inherit millions of dollars, impoverished children don't need food stamps!"

All right.

You "never got help from anybody."

Nothing was "handed to you."

All right.

Let's say you scratched and you clawed and climbed the ladder of success. You never took a welfare check or charity, you worked three jobs to get through college. And at the end of it you look back on your labors and feel justified in saying, "I never got help from anybody."

So ... you were never a child? From birth, you were hunting and gathering your own food? You never had a mother to "hand" you milk?

You're completely self-educated? At age 4, you sought out your own knowledge, and paid teachers out of your own pocket?

I don't think you did. I'd have seen something about it on the news.

I think your parents poured untold resources into your hungry mouth. I think you had a roof over your head that was paid for by other people, I think you went to schools that were built and staffed and paid for by other people, I think you felt safe because the streets were patrolled by other people, I think you drove to your three jobs on roads paved by other people, in a car built by other people and burning oil that was drilled by other people in a nation whose borders were defended by other people.

Look, I understand why "I ain't asking for help from nobody!" individualism works as an attitude, or a philosophy. No, you shouldn't wait for help to come along. I'll even agree that we don't impress that message hard enough on kids when they're growing up. Kids, if you're reading this, and you fucking shouldn't be, but if you are, let me tell you now:

The world doesn't give a shit about you, and you'll have to wrestle it for every good thing you get. Hell, I've written an entire article about how grown-ups don't tell us how freaking hard everything is, and how the shock of unexpected effort trips us up.

But, for the rich, this somehow gets extended to the absolutely delusional idea that they exist on a purely self-sufficient island, in an ocean full of shiftless layabouts always asking to borrow their stuff.

And you literally hear people express it this way -- in libertarian circles they refer to it as "Going Galt" (as in John Galt, the hero of Atlas Shrugged) -- fed up rich people just disconnecting from this annoying "society" thing that's bleeding them dry. If you live in my part of the country, you'll hear hard-working, rural farmer types say, "I got my own piece of land, I grow my own food, all I want is to be left alone." All right, well tell me this, cowboy:

Let's say some mean, even richer guy, like a wealthy gangsta rapper, hired a bunch of armed thugs to come take your farm. What would you do? Your shotgun won't fend them off -- they have a hundred bigger shotguns. What will you do, call the cops? That is, other people, who will risk their lives while being paid with still other people's tax money, who will try these bad guys in a court funded by yet other people's tax money, under laws passed by legislators paid with other people's tax money? Whoa, slow down there, welfare queen!

45 freetoken  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 3:57:31pm

re: #43 Fred Galt

The people that Salem Communications targets are already the most impressionable people out there.

One site I've been linking to show just how backward moving the atavist reactionaries are going is the patriarchal 1flesh.org site, who are totally against contraception (even for married couples.)

For example:

The Turning Point

[...]

I’ve always been of the belief that life begins at conception, and it wasn’t any sort of religious reasoning behind that perspective. It was simple. Prove to me that it doesn’t. [...]

It's that simple.

46 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:01:01pm

re: #42 blueraven

It is a lie. If he wants to argue the point Obama was actually making, that would be legitimate. But he would rather lie than present a cogent argument about the role of government.

That really says a lot about his character.

He can't really do more than harp on this one sentence taken out of context, because he agrees with it in context.

I know that you recognize a lot of people help you in a business. Perhaps the banks, the investors. There’s no question your mom and dad, your school teachers, the people that provide roads, the fire, the police. A lot of people help. But let me ask you this, did you build your business? If you did, raise your hand. Take that, Mr. President.

47 Kragar  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:04:27pm

re: #45 freetoken

One site I've been linking to show just how backward moving the atavist reactionaries are going is the patriarchal 1flesh.org site, who are totally against contraception (even for married couples.)

For example:

The Turning Point

It's that simple.

I was under the impression life didn't start till the kids moved out.

48 freetoken  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:04:57pm

Did Ann Romney Say ‘You People?’

[...]

Our ruling after reviewing the original audio is that she did not include the “you.”

Judge for yourself - [Link: abcn.ws...]

49 Obdicut  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:05:47pm

re: #47 Kragar

I was under the impression life didn't start till the kids moved out.

Life didn't really start for me until I tasted the clam chowder at the Anchor Oyster Bar in San Francisco.

50 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:06:38pm

re: #48 freetoken

Did Ann Romney Say ‘You People?’

I noticed that this morning too. Oh, well. The noise machine roars on.

51 Obdicut  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:06:42pm

re: #48 freetoken

I don't think it's a very important question. The sentiment is the same. I don't really hear it strongly. But it doesn't change the meaning of the sentence at all, just makes her sound an iota less autocratic.

52 Kragar  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:08:17pm

re: #49 Obdicut

Life didn't really start for me until I tasted the clam chowder at the Anchor Oyster Bar in San Francisco.

Image: If%20you%20know%20what%20I%20mean..png

53 Obdicut  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:08:27pm

re: #50 Killgore Trout

I noticed that this morning too. Oh, well. The noise machine roars on.

It's a pretty trivial point for people to focus on. She's saying they've given all people need to know. That's the truly arrogant part. How she chooses to phrase that is just about how good she is at spin.

Do you think whether she said it is actually important, compared to the actual context and meaning of what she said?

54 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:11:04pm

re: #53 Obdicut

It's a pretty trivial point for people to focus on. She's saying they've given all people need to know. That's the truly arrogant part. How she chooses to phrase that is just about how good she is at spin.

Do you think whether she said it is actually important, compared to the actual context and meaning of what she said?

Trivial point about a trivial story. Of the many important things that happened today, that wasn't one of them.

55 Buck  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:11:19pm

Ya he said both things. He often does. That doesn't make it better.

Back it up even further...

I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something -- there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there.

Yes, a successful business owner does think that they are smarter and work harder than people who who are less successful.

The president is saying (with a wicked sneer) that it isn't hard work that is responsible. It is some teacher, or the construction crew who made the roads that are responsible.

56 Obdicut  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:15:07pm

re: #54 Killgore Trout

Trivial point about a trivial story. Of the many important things that happened today, that wasn't one of them.

That's not what I asked, though. And Romney's embargo on releasing his taxes isn't a minor story. It's a major one. The candidate's wife speaking on it and using the 'we'-- and she did say 'we'-- might as well be a statement from the candidate itself.

So I'm not sure what you mean isn't an important thing-- do you just meant that it's not news that Romney isn't releasing his taxes, so people shouldn't talk about it when he announces in yet another form that he's not releasing them, or what?

57 freetoken  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:16:06pm

re: #54 Killgore Trout

Trivial point about a trivial story. Of the many important things that happened today, that wasn't one of them.

The difference between the Romney lives and the everyday Americans' lives are not trivial, however.

Politics these days is much like reality TV - it's about selling "relate-ability" to as big an audience as possible.

Identity has always been important in politics - that is what the Obama-is-not-a-real-American meme has been all about.

That Romney is part of a very small group of very rich clique is relevant to the upcoming election. And repeatedly, the Romneys have reinforced that division between them and average people.

58 Obdicut  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:16:34pm

re: #55 Buck

Yes, a successful business owner does think that they are smarter and work harder than people who who are less successful.
.

Only a really stupid one would have such a simplistic view. Most successful businss owners know hardworking blue-collar guys who have broken their backs all their lives and never gotten out of working class income.

59 jamesfirecat  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:20:52pm

re: #55 Buck

Ya he said both things. He often does. That doesn't make it better.

Back it up even further...

Yes, a successful business owner does think that they are smarter and work harder than people who who are less successful.

The president is saying (with a wicked sneer) that it isn't hard work that is responsible. It is some teacher, or the construction crew who made the roads that are responsible.

How hard or smart do you have to be to be a CEO who gets a million dollar golden parachute even if you steer the company into a ditch? Do you think there aren't people out there who were born on third and think they hit a triple?

60 A Sockpuppet's Sockpuppet  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:21:35pm

re: #55 Buck

Ya he said both things. He often does. That doesn't make it better.

Back it up even further...

Yes, a successful business owner does think that they are smarter and work harder than people who who are less successful.

The president is saying (with a wicked sneer) that it isn't hard work that is responsible. It is some teacher, or the construction crew who made the roads that are responsible.

In other words, they were born to succeed. Any other input into their skills, their drive, their motivation, even their starting point are all irrelevant.

Most businesses don't succeed. Most businesses that do succeed are started by people who have tried and failed before, so the idea that the successful owners are more intelligent or work harder than the unsuccessful owners is ridiculous. In many cases they are the same people.

Most businesses are started with borrowed money. If the people looking for the loan have the wrong background, the wrong education, the wrong skill set, the wrong site for the business, the wrong traffic flow, or the wrong family contacts, they're not getting the loan.

BTW, I started and have run my own computer business since 1998.

61 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:22:02pm

re: #56 Obdicut

I don't give a shit about Mitt's taxes. He's stinking rich, invests in a lot of companies that do a lot of different things in different places. I'm not surprised or very interested. I recognize the political gain to be had about making a big stink but it doesn't effect my decision making or world view.

62 wrenchwench  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:22:53pm

re: #55 Buck

The president is saying (with a wicked sneer) that it isn't hard work that is responsible.

He did that just for you. You're the only one who saw it.

63 Gus  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:22:54pm

re: #58 Obdicut

Only a really stupid one would have such a simplistic view. Most successful businss owners know hardworking blue-collar guys who have broken their backs all their lives and never gotten out of working class income.

Now apply it to all the now famous artists, musicians, poets, writers, philosophers, etc. Many of whom worked very hard and were indeed rather intelligent yet never found the American consumerist version of "success."

64 Kragar  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:23:14pm

6 Things Rich People Need to Stop Saying

#5. "Hey, I Worked Hard to Get What I Have!"

What They Think They're Saying:

"I'm not Paris Hilton! I work 70-hour weeks to make this salary!"

What We Hear:

"The only reason I have a hundred times more money than you is because I work a hundred times as hard!"

This will be the entry that prompts many a reader to skip right to the comment section after only reading the entry header ("I'm tired of these hippies saying the rich just got lucky and don't work hard!"). So let's get this out off the way right now, and make them look like assholes for not reading far enough:

Most high-income earners do put in a ton of hours. Bill Gates seemed to never sleep (an employee once said that putting in 81 hours in four days still couldn't keep up with Gates' schedule). So yes, it's unfair that we tend to think that "being rich" means "lounging by the pool while an albino tiger massages our feet with his tongue." So, "Hey, I work hard for what I have!" is perfectly true. It's also insulting.

It's insulting for the exact same reason "Hey, I love my country!" is insulting: It implies that the listener doesn't. Otherwise there'd be no reason to say it.

It implies a bizarre alternate reality where society rewards you purely based on how much effort you exert, rather than according to how well your specific talents fit in with the needs of the marketplace in the particular era and part of the world in which you were born. It implies that the great investment banker makes 10 times more than a great nurse only because the banker works 10 times as hard.

He doesn't.

65 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:23:42pm

re: #55 Buck

Ya he said both things. He often does. That doesn't make it better.

Back it up even further...

Yes, a successful business owner does think that they are smarter and work harder than people who who are less successful.

The president is saying (with a wicked sneer) that it isn't hard work that is responsible. It is some teacher, or the construction crew who made the roads that are responsible.

A successful business owner is free to think whatever he likes. But we don't live in the America of yesteryear, where self-made millionaires worked themselves up from the mail room to CEO. Nowadays we have their children, guys like Mitt Romney or George W Bush or the Koch Brothers, born to the purple and pampered all the way. Now the mail room kid is watching his job disappear due to technology, while the job he was working towards gets filled by the CEO's kid or one of his rich buddies offspring.

66 Gus  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:24:01pm

Jesus obviously wasn't as smart and didn't work as hard as that guy that owns a chain of pizza restaurants in Omaha.

//

67 blueraven  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:24:51pm

re: #55 Buck

Ya he said both things. He often does. That doesn't make it better.

Back it up even further...

Yes, a successful business owner does think that they are smarter and work harder than people who who are less successful.

The president is saying (with a wicked sneer) that it isn't hard work that is responsible. It is some teacher, or the construction crew who made the roads that are responsible.

No...he is saying the successful business owner didn't get there by themselves.
In this country we have public education, where every child is at least guaranteed a minimum of 12 years.
We have internet and power lines. We have roads, bridges and the rule of law.
Without this, business would be built on chaos and corruption.

68 Obdicut  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:25:20pm

Both my grandfathers were hardworking men, but Grandpa Joseph gave Grandpa Benson the edge in that department, and I agree with him. Grandpa Benson, who'd been in the Merchant Marine as a mechanic, went on to become a tool and die guy, working his way up from just the line to some sort of designer of machines and molds. He worked just as hard his whole life no matter what pay scale he was at, but his lack of education stopped him earning what he really could have.

Grandpa Joseph started a number of businesses, the first one failing when his own brother embezzled money from him. He had to work for salary for awhile, at an ad agency, and then started a furniture store. His diabetes had been exacerbated by some terrible fever he'd gotten in the South Seas during WWII, and so even though he might have wanted to put in a full day's work every day, he often couldn't. He found a great manager for the store, and, rather than being the intrusive owner looking over his shoulder, left the day-to-day running of it to him.

My grandfathers had respect for each other, but I agree with Grandpa Joseph. Grandpa Benson was a monster for work, loved it, was passionate about it-- when he came home, he'd tinker in the basement, he'd go raise crops in the garden.

So there's a case of a non-evil businessman, not a caricature, just a guy who'd readily admit that this working-class guy beat his pants off when it came to hard work, and that in his later years, Grandpa Joseph didn't have to lift a finger if he didn't have to.

69 Gus  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:25:34pm

re: #65 Targetpractice

A successful business owner is free to think whatever he likes. But we don't live in the America of yesteryear, where self-made millionaires worked themselves up from the mail room to CEO. Nowadays we have their children, guys like Mitt Romney or George W Bush or the Koch Brothers, born to the purple and pampered all the way. Now the mail room kid is watching his job disappear due to technology, while the job he was working towards gets filled by the CEO's kid or one of his rich buddies offspring.

That's the other irony here. Had it not been for Mitt's father having been the CEO of AMC we would not be talking about him. He'd be somewhere else doing something else.

70 freetoken  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:26:29pm

re: #61 Killgore Trout

I don't give a shit about Mitt's taxes. He's stinking rich, invests in a lot of companies that do a lot of different things in different places. I'm not surprised or very interested. ...

As far as I am concerned, any new revelations about Romney's taxes won't change my vote, simply because way back in 2008 (when I was still registered as a Republican and could vote in the primary) I wasn't going to vote for him, as he always struck me as being very duplicitous.

That said, there are Americans out there for whom revelations about the manipulations the Romneys have done to shelter their money off-shore, to avoid paying taxes, will strike home for the hypocrisy of someone wanting to be President but not wanting to partake in American civil responsibility.

71 Bubblehead II  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:26:54pm

Evening Lizards. Been watching this particular train of thought building up.

You know, Obama could defuse it real fast, just refuse to fund any further road repairs of Interstate highways. Yes, it will cost jobs. But it will also make it clear, we NEED these roads. Something Romney and the repugs have forgot about.

If you can't ship or receive it (raw material/finished goods) why the hell even try.

72 wrenchwench  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:27:11pm

re: #69 Gus

That's the other irony here. Had it not been for Mitt's father having been the CEO of AMC we would not be talking about him. He'd be somewhere else doing something else.

Had it not been for the Mexican Revolution, Mitt might really be Mexican.

73 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:27:28pm

re: #64 Kragar

6 Things Rich People Need to Stop Saying

For a humor site, Cracked gets more than most of the media. How sad but that's exactly how what I hear. Listen if you make a fortune for yourself, awesome, but for the love of God, please don't patronize me by acting like you alone got yourself to that point. And that just because someone makes less than you doesn't mean they mean they have less of a work ethic. I would love for one of these multi billionaires to tell a coal miner who works his ass off to provide for his family that he doesn't work hard with a straight face.

74 A Sockpuppet's Sockpuppet  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:27:31pm

re: #55 Buck

Ya he said both things. He often does. That doesn't make it better.

Back it up even further...

Yes, a successful business owner does think that they are smarter and work harder than people who who are less successful.

The president is saying (with a wicked sneer) that it isn't hard work that is responsible. It is some teacher, or the construction crew who made the roads that are responsible.

What the Pres is saying is that the average business owner cannot succeed in business without a stable business environment, a healthy physical infrastructure and a culture where new businesses are accepted so are able to be successful. The business owner does not do that on his/her own. That isn't a shot at business owners, that's an observation of business development.

75 blueraven  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:28:05pm

re: #61 Killgore Trout

I don't give a shit about Mitt's taxes. He's stinking rich, invests in a lot of companies that do a lot of different things in different places. I'm not surprised or very interested. I recognize the political gain to be had about making a big stink but it doesn't effect my decision making or world view.

Well excuse us for asking. It is important to many of us, since if elected he will be setting or advocating tax policy.

If he is paying no or very low taxes for some of those years, it is relevant.

76 Buck  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:28:56pm

re: #59 jamesfirecat

It is a great job if you can get it.

Look, that is not success and not who the President was talking about.

77 Obdicut  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:30:00pm

re: #61 Killgore Trout

I don't give a shit about Mitt's taxes.

Oh. That's kind of weird to me, honestly. Ron Paul made a lot of money off his crazy, racist newsletters-- people care quite a bit about that. People tend to care how someone makes their money, and what they do with it-- this being a capitalist society and all, it's one of the main ways we interact with society. Romney is certainly claiming that it is-- the whole GOP theology these days is highly centered around free enterprise being a sacred rite.

I think you've got it slightly backwards; what's going on is a skewering of a myth that's been allowed to run around rampantly for quite awhile, the myth manufactured by the GOP and the right-wing media, a real kind of cultural poison-- that the amount of money you make is what's important, rather than how you made that money.

Or maybe Romney's just embarrassed that he actually owns the patent for Bratz.

78 engineer cat  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:30:38pm

most of the people who run for president are rich

mitt is wealthy

79 jamesfirecat  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:30:49pm

re: #76 Buck

It is a great job if you can get it.

Look, that is not success and not who the President was talking about.

Why don't you tell us who he was talking about then?

80 Buck  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:31:18pm

re: #74 b_sharp

The "healthy physical infrastructure and a culture where new businesses are accepted" is there for every one. It is not given only to the successful.

What makes a business successful, if all that other stuff is out there and equally distributed?

81 freetoken  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:33:22pm

re: #80 Buck

You may be trying to find easy causality in a universe where chaos rules, and where small imperceptible changes manifest in events far removed from their origins.

82 Buck  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:33:35pm

re: #79 jamesfirecat

It is in the speech. People who think they are successful because they are smart and because they worked harder than everybody else.

He says that straight out. Very clear.

83 Gus  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:34:15pm

re: #81 freetoken

You may be trying to find easy causality in a universe where chaos rules, and where small imperceptible changes manifest in events far removed from their origins.

Life is like a Rube Goldberg contraption?

84 Renaissance_Man  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:34:26pm

re: #71 Bubblehead II

Evening Lizards. Been watching this particular train of thought building up.

You know, Obama could defuse it real fast, just refuse to fund any further road repairs of Interstate highways. Yes, it will cost jobs. But it will also make it clear, we NEED these roads. Something Romney and the repugs have forgot about.

If you can't ship or receive it (raw material/finished goods) why the hell even try.

Hurting the country and its people to spite the other team is the Republican platform, not, thankfully, the Democratic one.

85 Stanghazi  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:35:17pm

OF COURSE.

86 Buck  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:35:29pm

re: #81 freetoken

You may be trying to find easy causality in a universe where chaos rules, and where small imperceptible changes manifest in events far removed from their origins.

Right, that must be what I am doing.

You think that successful people can really point to "easy causality in a universe where chaos rules, and where small imperceptible changes manifest in events far removed from their origins" and NOT being smart and hard work.

87 darthstar  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:35:36pm

Romney photo-ops at business that started with Government help.

Company owner Brian Maloney, 69, agreed with Romney's assessment. "I take umbrage at the suggestion that people don't start and build businesses," Maloney said. "I started out with 500 bucks and worked with my hands to afford grad school at night. My wife supported me. Started a little body shop and was able to bring together people, one at a time."

But in an interview with Boston-based reporter Jon Keller of WBZ-TV, Maloney acknowledged that his business received some government help. "The only way I was able to come here, because I had no money, was with an industrial revenue bond," Maloney said in the interview. Industrial revenue bonds are typically issued by local and state governments to attract new business to an area. They create low-interest loans for new development and startups.

88 Ogami Itto  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:36:03pm

re: #66 Gus

That's because Jesus was a lazy lefty hippie who lived with his mother.

89 Obdicut  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:36:24pm

re: #82 Buck

Actually, what he's saying, very clearly, is that they couldn't succeed without the benefits of civilization around them, including the infrastructure provided by a government looking out for the common good of all.

Can you actually not see that? Do you really manage to warp your perception far enough to deliberately misunderstand that?

90 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:36:27pm

re: #85 Stanley Sea

[Embedded content]

OF COURSE.

Whoopsie.

91 jamesfirecat  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:36:32pm

re: #82 Buck

It is in the speech. People who think they are successful because they are smart and because they worked harder than everybody else.

He says that straight out. Very clear.

He says that its about people who think they are sucessful because they THINK THEY ARE SMART or THINK THEY WORKED HARDER THAN EVERYBODY ELSE


Did you Miss that Part Buck?

I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something -- there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there.


He's talking about those people who are trying to create a way to place all the praise for their success on their own shoulders, a great way to hardens one's heart against others plight.

92 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:36:37pm

re: #82 Buck

It is in the speech. People who think they are successful because they are smart and because they worked harder than everybody else.

He says that straight out. Very clear.

His point seemed pretty clear, that being smart and hard-working alone do not guarantee success. That there are many people who are one or both, but are not successful. Success is built upon a framework that is provided by others, from a public education to infrastructure that businesses rely upon to get supplies in and goods out.

93 freetoken  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:36:38pm

re: #86 Buck

Right, that must be what I am doing.

Actually, I think you are just being a troll and simple minded, but I was trying to find a way for you to save face.

Oh well.

94 blueraven  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:37:25pm

re: #80 Buck

The "healthy physical infrastructure and a culture where new businesses are accepted" is there for every one. It is not given only to the successful.

What makes a business successful, if all that other stuff is out there and equally distributed?

Every body does not want to be a businessman. Some of us are happy being teachers and nurses and policemen. Some of us are artists and care takers, waitresses, cashiers or salespeople.
Business people are not special just because they are business people.

95 darthstar  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:37:28pm

re: #85 Stanley Sea

[Embedded content]

OF COURSE.

Yep...we're looking at the same tweets again. Kaczynski has some good stuff sometimes, but he's a bit of a twitter addict, and sometimes I get a little freaked out by him...told him he needed a hobby the other day.

96 Stanghazi  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:37:50pm

re: #87 darthstar

Romney photo-ops at business that started with Government help.

People are blind. Fucking BLIND.

97 Stanghazi  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:38:34pm

re: #95 darthstar

Yep...we're looking at the same tweets again. Kaczynski has some good stuff sometimes, but he's a bit of a twitter addict, and sometimes I get a little freaked out by him...told him he needed a hobby the other day.

I follow too many peeps. I miss so many during the day etc., and only catch a few goodies.

98 Buck  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:38:40pm

re: #89 Obdicut

the benefits of civilization around them, including the infrastructure provided by a government looking out for the common good of all.

Everyone has that. It isn't something given only to successful people.

Why are some business owners successful, where some are not?

99 darthstar  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:38:46pm
100 Gus  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:39:07pm
101 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:39:29pm

re: #98 Buck

Everyone has that. It isn't something given only to successful people.

Why are some business owners successful, where some are not?

How many business owners started out with nothing and built it into something? And how many were just handed it all on a silver platter?

102 Buck  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:40:26pm

re: #94 blueraven

Some are successful teachers and successful nurses and successful policemen. Some are successful artists and successful care takers, successful waitresses, successful cashiers or successful salespeople.

Some are not.

The smarter hard working people seem to float to the top of what ever they do.

103 blueraven  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:42:05pm

re: #98 Buck

Everyone has that. It isn't something given only to successful people.

Why are some business owners successful, where some are not?

And your answer is?

Some are more successful because they had more seed money. Some are more successful because of where the business is located, if they can find properly trained people.
There are many reasons.
Being smart and working hard is one factor.

104 Obdicut  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:42:55pm

re: #98 Buck

Everyone has that. It isn't something given only to successful people.

Why are some business owners successful, where some are not?

For a very wide variety of reasons. For example, my grandfather would credit the success of his furniture business to the hard work of his manager, a man who stayed with him for twenty years or more. That employees hard work was absolutely invaluable to grandpa. He also had the knack for hiring good other staff, so grandpa had a great crew of salesmen, delivery guys, etc. He even had a truck, with a driver.

His first business, on the other hand, failed because of his brother's terrible betrayal. That was the one where he was still healthy enough to work hard. That one he had made a success, though, by working hard-- but he got the money for it from a GI loan.

105 Buck  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:45:02pm

re: #103 blueraven

Being smart and working hard is one factor.

Well, I don't think that a teacher or road is a factor, and that is what the President said.

106 gwangung  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:46:22pm

re: #105 Buck

Well, I don't think that a teacher or road is a factor, and that is what the President said.

That's short sighted, particularly in businesses that rely on transported items.

107 jamesfirecat  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:46:35pm

re: #105 Buck

Well, I don't think that a teacher or road is a factor, and that is what the President said.

If you don't think what teachers you have helps determine how well you do in life.... why are private schools such a thriving industry?

108 Obdicut  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:46:36pm

Oh, and grandpa opened his furniture shop in San Francisco, because San Francisco is a city with things like running water, electricity, courts, and physical security, and customers who could afford to buy his furniture. A lot of his fellow GIs were settling down there, having fallen in love with it on their way out to the Pacific Theater, and he liked having the Presidio (where he is now buried) close by. Many of those GIs were starting business of their own with GI bills, or going back to college, or buying houses in San Francisco. That bill was really superb in the way it gave wealth to guys who unequivocally deserved it, but also needed it. It was a great thing for our economy, and our society.

109 Buck  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:46:39pm

re: #104 Obdicut

Your Grandfather might be just modest. Hiring the right people and motivating them is smart and hard work.

110 Obdicut  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:47:03pm

re: #105 Buck

Well, I don't think that a teacher or road is a factor, and that is what the President said.

Really. You don't think being taught to read or write matters to succeed in business.

Yes, you do.

111 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:47:43pm

re: #105 Buck

Well, I don't think that a teacher or road is a factor, and that is what the President said.

Name a self-taught Fortune 500 CEO.

112 Bubblehead II  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:47:50pm

re: #84 Renaissance_Man

Thanks. DWP. Logging off before I make a total ass of my self.

113 Buck  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:48:25pm

re: #107 jamesfirecat

If you don't think what teachers you have helps determine how well you do in life... why are private schools such a thriving industry?

Again, EVERYONE in the class had the same teacher.

114 Obdicut  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:48:45pm

re: #109 Buck

Your Grandfather might be just modest. Hiring the right people and motivating them is smart and hard work.

No, I told you, he hired a manager who turned out to be a gem, and turned over the running of the business to him. Is there some reason you find that incomprehensible?

You don't seriously think every owner of a small business is there all the time working or something, do you? Many of them do, but there are plenty of people who just invest their money without dong much for the business.

115 gwangung  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:48:47pm

re: #109 Buck

Your Grandfather might be just modest. Hiring the right people and motivating them is smart and hard work.

And do these conjured out of thin air? Do they not need a good school system to be educated? Do they not need a good transportation system to get to and from work.

Business is a SYSTEM, of inter-related parts. Neglecting parts of a system is asking for trouble.

116 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:48:53pm

re: #105 Buck

Well, I don't think that a teacher or road is a factor,

Because you're a fucking idiot. The teacher educates people, the road makes transporting food and getting to work possible. Both make it much more difficult for me to recruit starving, illiterate villagers to descend on you in the night bearing torches and pitchforks.

117 A Sockpuppet's Sockpuppet  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:48:56pm

re: #82 Buck

It is in the speech. People who think they are successful because they are smart and because they worked harder than everybody else.

He says that straight out. Very clear.

No it isn't. He saying those people are not alone.

What he says is that there people out there who are just as smart as successful people who are not rich and there are people out there who work as hard and are not rich.

118 Buck  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:49:25pm

re: #110 Obdicut

Really. You don't think being taught to read or write matters to succeed in business.

Yes, you do.

AGAIN, everyone got that. It is not what distinguishes people.

119 darthstar  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:49:29pm

re: #105 Buck

Well, I don't think that a teacher or road is a factor, and that is what the President said.

Image: 599377_470762309619377_582849621_n.jpg

120 A Sockpuppet's Sockpuppet  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:49:41pm

re: #81 freetoken

You may be trying to find easy causality in a universe where chaos rules, and where small imperceptible changes manifest in events far removed from their origins.

Don't confuse the man with big words and bigger concepts.

121 gwangung  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:49:43pm

re: #113 Buck

Again, EVERYONE in the class had the same teacher.

Not when you underfund the school system.

This is a pretty pathetic argument.

122 Gus  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:50:08pm

Here I thought that the USPS, UPS, and FedEx travel on magical roads paved with John Galt pixie dust.

123 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:50:10pm

re: #118 Buck

AGAIN, everyone got that. It is not what distinguishes people.

Of course not...but could they have been successful without them?

124 blueraven  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:50:11pm

re: #105 Buck

Well, I don't think that a teacher or road is a factor, and that is what the President said.

You think wrong. What about the interstate highway system? How many businesses; motels, chain restaurants, convenience stores do you think would be successful without that?

Really, you think teachers make no difference?

125 Obdicut  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:50:20pm

re: #113 Buck

Again, EVERYONE in the class had the same teacher.

But, Buck, everyone in the US doesn't attend class in one giant schoolroom. And even if they did-- didn't you have a really great teacher? One who inspired you, who really helped you to learn? You don't give any teacher you ever had any credit for anything you've learned?

126 Gus  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:50:27pm

Homesteads.

127 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:50:43pm

re: #109 Buck

Your Grandfather might be just modest. Hiring the right people and motivating them is smart and hard work.

You just described Romney's involvement and responsibility for Bain between 1999 and 2002.

128 Gus  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:50:55pm

TARP

129 Sionainn  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:51:03pm

re: #94 blueraven

Every body does not want to be a businessman. Some of us are happy being teachers and nurses and policemen. Some of us are artists and care takers, waitresses, cashiers or salespeople.
Business people are not special just because they are business people.

QFT and wishing I could give you more than one upding.

Success shouldn't be measured by how filthy rich one becomes. I can just imagine how many people they had to step on to get what they have. I can also imagine how soul-killing that would be.

130 Gus  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:51:23pm

The Fed. The military -- yes, one of their primary functions is largely economic.

131 Obdicut  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:51:52pm

re: #127 goddamnedfrank

You just described Romney's involvement and responsibility for Bain between 1999 and 2002.

This is what's really funny about Romney trying to divorce himself from Bain so strenuously. Earlier on, there were people trying to defend him by talking about how companies are doing now that were invested in by Bain. But if what he's saying is that what goes on at a company after your direct involvement ceases is no responsibility of yours-- then he doesn't get to claim shit about that.

132 Buck  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:52:16pm

re: #124 blueraven

You think wrong. What about the interstate highway system? How many businesses; motels, chain restaurants, convenience stores do you think would be successful without that?

Really, you think teacher make no difference?

AGAIN the road is there for everyone, but not everyone is successful.

This is not a hard concept to grasp.

133 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:52:38pm

re: #132 Buck

AGAIN the road is there for everyone, but not everyone is successful.

This is not a hard concept to grasp.

But without the road, can a business be successful?

134 Obdicut  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:53:08pm

re: #132 Buck

Buck, are you really honestly saying that you don't give any credit to any teacher you ever had for the man that you've become? Nobody helped you to learn in a way you couldn't have done yourself? You don't owe anyone a debt of gratitude for taking the time to teach you something?

135 Stanghazi  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:53:29pm

I want to compare Romney's bragging of the jobs at staples vs. his OK to lose jobs at GM. Barely a walking dead wage at Staples, some decent security at GM.

136 palomino  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:55:38pm

re: #132 Buck

AGAIN the road is there for everyone, but not everyone is successful.

This is not a hard concept to grasp.

Did you have a fucking brain tumor for breakfast this morning?

The point is that without govt services, like education and infrastructure, it would a hell of a lot harder, if not impossible, to build the kinds of successful businesses we see across America.

137 jamesfirecat  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:55:49pm

re: #113 Buck

Again, EVERYONE in the class had the same teacher.

You're not getting my point Buck.

Nobody succeeds on hard work and inteligence alone.

There are COUNTLESS different factors.


What sort of family life does the person have? What sort of teachers do they have? What sort of country do they live in? What kind of people can you find to help you with your work? Hiring the right people isn't about smart and intelligence only, there are only so many "right people" out there for any given business and if those people are already working for someone else your business may be ruined before it starts.

You don't make it on raw intelligence and gumption, it takes a society to create a corporation,

138 wrenchwench  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:55:49pm

re: #98 Buck

Everyone has that. It isn't something given only to successful people.

Why are some business owners successful, where some are not?

I have kept a business going for over 13 years. Luck has had a LOT to do with it, especially getting started. I'm a great bike mechanic, but a lousy business person.

139 blueraven  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:55:51pm

re: #132 Buck

AGAIN the road is there for everyone, but not everyone is successful.

This is not a hard concept to grasp.

I think you are making an entirely different argument.
I am not saying some people aren't more successful than others in business. I am saying they didn't get there on smarts alone and it doesn't negate the point that without the roads and other infrastructure, no business would be successful.

Not a hard concept to grasp.

140 Gus  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:56:28pm

Funny thing about public roads and how they affected the success of the modern automobile. The Federal highway projects. Now think about how papa Romney made his riches through American Motors. Now add the success of the Army Jeep and what helped AMC stay afloat.

141 A Sockpuppet's Sockpuppet  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:57:29pm

re: #98 Buck

Everyone has that. It isn't something given only to successful people.

Why are some business owners successful, where some are not?

Providence, timing, support, maybe even government help. Most of those with failed businesses work just as hard and are just as smart.

142 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:57:32pm

Meanwhile here in old white Republican paradise everyone is up in arms about Obama supporting the U.N. Arms Trade Treaty and claiming that it will ban the sale and ownership of handguns. With Fox News, Alex Jones, the NRA, and many others intentionally lying about the scope of the proposed treaty to get the folks worked up about Obama trying to take their guns.

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

I have already tried twice to explain that the treaty is only about international sales and has nothing to do with any countries internal gun policies. It is like talking to a brick wall, "they all know what they know."

Yeah right, because they only listen to scare mongering liars to get their "news"...sigh... :(

143 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:58:00pm

The unimportance of education, roads, and government infrastructure in general is why you see so many Fortune 500 companies relocating to Somalia.

144 Sionainn  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 4:58:58pm

re: #139 blueraven

Not a hard concept to grasp.

It apparently is for some people.

145 Coracle  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 5:01:02pm

re: #55 Buck

Yes, a successful business owner does think that they are smarter and work harder than people who who are less successful.

Such a business owner might be successful, but he'd also be a jackass. Thankfully most successful business owners don't have such "I'm better than you" attitudes. There's a lot of "right place at the right time with the right thing".

The rest of your bullshit is just that.

The president is saying (with a wicked sneer)

Total projection on your part.

that it isn't hard work that is responsible.

Hard work is not solely responsible. But do put made up words and intent in his mouth. It's all you know how to do.

It is some teacher, or the construction crew who made the roads that are responsible.

It is undeniable that the education and infrastructure of this country are essential ingredients to successful businesses by people in this country. To claim otherwise is delusional.

You are a tiring troll, Buck.

146 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 5:01:37pm

re: #141 b_sharp

Providence, timing, support, maybe even government help. Most of those with failed businesses work just as hard and are just as smart.

Ayep, for every business that has stood the test of time, there are entire graveyards of failed businesses. Some never got off the ground, some had a few successful years before crashing, some went for decades before making one mistake they couldn't recover from.

Hell, ask Mitt about what happened to the auto business his dad did so much to make successful, where it is today.

147 A Sockpuppet's Sockpuppet  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 5:04:57pm

re: #105 Buck

Well, I don't think that a teacher or road is a factor, and that is what the President said.

You're assuming 'smart' includes training, skill set as well as innate ability to think, I think. The teachers are instrumental in encouraging and guiding a person to develop a skill set. Poor roads can reduce customer traffic flow to zero.

Three months of work on a major road in my city forced one company to move and another to fold.

Businesses do not succeed without a lot of societal help.

148 Stanghazi  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 5:05:43pm

re: #145 Coracle

Such a business owner might be successful, but he'd also be a jackass. Thankfully most successful business owners don't have such "I'm better than you" attitudes. There's a lot of "right place at the right time with the right thing".

The rest of your bullshit is just that.

Total projection on your part.

Hard work is not solely responsible. But do put made up words and intent in his mouth. It's all you know how to do.

It is undeniable that the education and infrastructure of this country are essential ingredients to successful businesses by people in this country. To claim otherwise is delusional.

You are a tiring troll, Buck.

AGREE! Wicked sneer? Holy shit, Buck watches US politics like he's watching cartoons as a kid.

149 Obdicut  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 5:05:53pm

Maybe this is just framing, Buck, and we're all being too hard on you. Maybe what you're saying is actually a call for robust infrastructure spending-- something like getting everyone in the US on high-speed internet. You want everyone to have schools of equal quality-- the problem with school spending in the US is it's too concentrated in local taxes. This may shock you, but some classrooms are working with outdated textbooks because they can't afford new ones, while other ones, in richer areas, have state of the art computer labs. Maybe what you're saying is everyone deserves to attend the same classroom, that everyone should start from the same position.

Maybe you're expressing an ideal, and claiming that's actually the way it is now.

150 Coracle  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 5:07:07pm

re: #149 Obdicut

But maybe not.

Guess where my money is.

151 Obdicut  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 5:11:39pm

"Everyone should have the same classroom" would make a great Progressive slogan.

152 blueraven  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 5:12:55pm

I would dearly love to see Romney try to make Buck's argument.

153 wrenchwench  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 5:13:02pm

I had the luck to go for a bike ride with the president of a bank. He said I had what it takes, because I knew how to take care of customers.

I had the luck to have a customer where I was working who liked the way I worked on his bike, and liked even more how I treated him as a person. He loaned me the money that made the bank think I had what it took.

Luck, and a totally non-threatening persona, and skill with a wrench. That's what I had.

Romney never would have made it in retail, unless he had a personality makeover.

154 dragonfire1981  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 5:13:14pm

BREAKING NEWS! RNC MUSICAL GUEST LINEUP JUST ANNOUNCED!

Featured acts:

The White Stripes
Whitesnake
Great White

155 allegro  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 5:14:06pm

re: #151 Obdicut

"Everyone should have the same classroom" would make a great Progressive slogan.

And they should attend that classroom fed with wholesome food so they can concentrate and learn, have the healthcare they need to be healthy and strong enough to learn, and a home to return to at the end of the day so they don't live in fear of homelessness.

Yeah, I can dream.

156 Gus  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 5:14:08pm
157 dragonfire1981  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 5:15:02pm

re: #153 wrenchwench

I had the luck to go for a bike ride with the president of a bank. He said I had what it takes, because I knew how to take care of customers.

I had the luck to have a customer where I was working who liked the way I worked on his bike, and liked even more how I treated him as a person. He loaned me the money that made the bank think I had what it took.

Luck, and a totally non-threatening persona, and skill with a wrench. That's what I had.

Romney never would have made it in retail, unless he had a personality makeover.

I have no doubt there are MANY people who have 10x the personality of Romney and work 5X as hard for 0.000000002x as much money.

159 dragonfire1981  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 5:15:41pm

Proposed Romney Campaign slogan:

Change you CAN'T believe in!

160 jamesfirecat  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 5:15:43pm

re: #157 dragonfire1981

I have no doubt there are MANY people who have 10x the personality of Romney and work 5X as hard for 0.000000002x as much money.

People are building robots in Japan that have 10X the personality of Romney.

161 Gus  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 5:19:14pm
162 Gus  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 5:20:05pm

Shawna Forde is currently on death row.

163 darthstar  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 5:21:19pm

This will help with Mitt's "international bonafides"

164 freetoken  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 5:21:49pm

Kim Kardashian Bares Fresh, Makeup Free Face (Video)

Kim Kardashian - demonstrating the hard work the Buck claims makes her successful.

165 Gus  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 5:24:29pm

Ah yes. National Review...

10/17/00 9:35 a.m.
Who Are You Calling “Illegal”?
Complaining about scofflaws is racist.

By John Derbyshire, NR contributing editor racist...

Who was this group, so unfairly characterized as "illegal aliens"? Well, it was ... illegal aliens. The event, held at a local VFW post, was organized by a local citizens group fed up with the presence of hundreds of Mexican day laborers in the town of Farmingville. Guest speaker was Glenn Spencer of the California-based "Voices of Citizens Together," a noisy but entirely respectable group that lobbies against illegal immigration. Over to Newsday:

But Spencer's presence on Long Island set off alarm bells among national civil and immigrant rights groups that call his organization a "hate group" and charge that it encourages vigilantism.

Newsday further reported that the 200 people who assembled to hear Mr. Spencer speak carried signs with legends like: "Illegal Aliens are Criminals ... Not Immigrants!!!!" and "Peaceful Solutions through Deportation". From the tone of the piece, I think we are supposed to find this shocking. And this, too: "A video put out by his [i.e. Spencer's] group summarizes the history of Mexico partly by saying the Aztec Indians practiced human sacrifice and cannibalism." Now, it's been a while since I read Bernal Diaz's Conquest of New Spain and Prescott's Conquest of Mexico, but if I recall correctly, the Aztecs did indeed practice those two things, with great gusto in both cases. So what point is Newsday making by telling us about this video? That Spencer's group tells the truth? Well, for sure they do a better job of it than the sub-editors of Newsday, with their mysteriously misplaced quotation marks. Yo, guys: illegal immigration is I-L-L-E-G-A-L...

166 wrenchwench  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 5:25:15pm

re: #162 Gus

Shawna Forde is currently on death row.

Which is one reason Glenn Spencer is such a scumbag. Aiding, abetting, inciting, what ever you want to call it. He's guilty. Not legally, but morally. I don't care about Shawna Ford, I care about the father and daughter she helped to murder, and the mother she attempted to kill.

167 Gus  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 5:25:27pm

re: #165 Gus

Ah yes. National Review...

10/17/00 9:35 a.m.
Who Are You Calling “Illegal”?
Complaining about scofflaws is racist.

By John Derbyshire, NR contributing editor racist...

This has been scrubbed from the NRO server. It's cached now.

168 freetoken  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 5:31:51pm

re: #167 Gus

Speaking of Derbyshire, today he put up an article in which he comes right out and asks "What, Exactly, Is Wrong With “Racism”?"

169 Achilles Tang  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 5:32:06pm

re: #98 Buck

Everyone has that. It isn't something given only to successful people.

Why are some business owners successful, where some are not?

That is not the point. The point is that the conversation from the GOP is that it can all be done without any government worth mentioning.

170 Gus  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 5:37:36pm

re: #168 freetoken

Speaking of Derbyshire, today he put up an article in which he comes right out and asks "What, Exactly, Is Wrong With “Racism”?"

National Review. What a joke. Look at that screed from Derbyshire dating all the way back to the year 2000. They still harbor racists of all stripes.

171 darthstar  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 5:39:56pm

re: #164 freetoken

Kim Kardashian Bares Fresh, Makeup Free Face (Video)

Kim Kardashian - demonstrating the hard work the Buck claims makes her successful.

Make-up free, except for the lip stain, foundation, and eye shadow...it's amazing what passes for "make-up free these days. Nobody knows what a woman without make-up looks like anymore...

Image: tammy-faye-bakker.jpg

172 freetoken  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 5:41:27pm

re: #171 darthstar

Make-up free, except for the lip stain, foundation, and eye shadow...it's amazing what passes for "make-up free these days.

Well, that is the "hard work" which Buck claims has determined that she is successful.

173 Gus  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 5:48:36pm

BBL

174 wrenchwench  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 5:49:21pm

re: #171 darthstar

Make-up free, except for the lip stain, foundation, and eye shadow...it's amazing what passes for "make-up free these days. Nobody knows what a woman without make-up looks like anymore...

Image: tammy-faye-bakker.jpg

I rented the DVD of the movie "Precious". I watched the bonus features. The director was so excited about the bravery of Mariah Carey appearing without makeup. Ruined the movie for me, knowing such shallowness was behind it.

175 A Sockpuppet's Sockpuppet  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 5:57:56pm

re: #168 freetoken

Speaking of Derbyshire, today he put up an article in which he comes right out and asks "What, Exactly, Is Wrong With “Racism”?"

How atavistic.

176 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 5:58:25pm

re: #174 wrenchwench

I rented the DVD of the movie "Precious". I watched the bonus features. The director was so excited about the bravery of Mariah Carey appearing without makeup. Ruined the movie for me, knowing such shallowness was behind it.

I liked the movie, but there were a lot of things that made me a little twitchy about it. Like that.

177 wrenchwench  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 6:01:33pm

re: #176 SanFranciscoZionist

I liked the movie, but there were a lot of things that made me a little twitchy about it. Like that.

I should say it 'diminished' the movie for me. It was pretty good. But I did think there was greater bravery in it than Mariah's.

178 Buck  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 6:12:30pm

I just don't think the rest of the quote helps the President at all.

Now of course people will hear what they want to hear, but deceptive? I don't think so.

The President said what he said, and it would be nice if the whole speech could be repeated every time. However the concept doesn't change for many.

The President is laughing at people who think that brains and hard work was what made them successful.

Well, as you all like to point out, that might not be the precise reasons. Maybe it was just lucky that they hired people they could trust and motivate. I have always found that the harder I worked, the luckier I got.

179 Sionainn  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 6:14:09pm

re: #149 Obdicut

Maybe this is just framing, Buck, and we're all being too hard on you. Maybe what you're saying is actually a call for robust infrastructure spending-- something like getting everyone in the US on high-speed internet. You want everyone to have schools of equal quality-- the problem with school spending in the US is it's too concentrated in local taxes. This may shock you, but some classrooms are working with outdated textbooks because they can't afford new ones, while other ones, in richer areas, have state of the art computer labs. Maybe what you're saying is everyone deserves to attend the same classroom, that everyone should start from the same position.

Maybe you're expressing an ideal, and claiming that's actually the way it is now.

I don't think so.

180 Buck  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 6:17:03pm

re: #169 Achilles Tang

the conversation from the GOP is that it can all be done without any government worth mentioning.

That might be the conversation that you wish the GOP is having. But it is not the actual one.

I know this much, the internet as the Government funded, was nothing that regular consumers could have used. I was in the business when the Mosiac browser was being created. It was based on simple FTP. It was text only. It was that breakthrough that really created the internet.

181 Coracle  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 6:19:50pm

re: #178 Buck

The President is laughing at people who think that brains and hard work was what made them successful.

Come on, Buck. That's just idiotic.

182 Buck  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 6:20:50pm

re: #149 Obdicut

Maybe this is just framing, Buck, and we're all being too hard on you. Maybe what you're saying is actually a call for robust infrastructure spending-- something like getting everyone in the US on high-speed internet. You want everyone to have schools of equal quality-- the problem with school spending in the US is it's too concentrated in local taxes. This may shock you, but some classrooms are working with outdated textbooks because they can't afford new ones, while other ones, in richer areas, have state of the art computer labs. Maybe what you're saying is everyone deserves to attend the same classroom, that everyone should start from the same position.

Maybe you're expressing an ideal, and claiming that's actually the way it is now.

There are successful people who come from that background. The same class room, the same outdated textbooks.

I have said the same thing about seven times. If you still don't understand, then you are choosing that.

183 Buck  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 6:21:46pm

re: #181 Coracle

Come on, Buck. That's just idiotic.

That is what a lot of people see and hear in the video... the whole video.

I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something -- there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there.

Sure, we are all idiots. That would explain it.

184 Coracle  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 6:23:14pm

re: #183 Buck

That is what a lot of people see and hear in the video... the whole video.

Sure, we are all idiots. That would explain it.

You'll only see and hear that if you work on willfully misunderstanding. I don't think you're actually an idiot, Buck. I think you're malicious.

185 Achilles Tang  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 6:25:01pm

re: #178 Buck

I just don't think the rest of the quote helps the President at all.

Now of course people will hear what they want to hear, but deceptive? I don't think so.

The President said what he said, and it would be nice if the whole speech could be repeated every time. However the concept doesn't change for many.

The President is laughing at people who think that brains and hard work was what made them successful.

Well, as you all like to point out, that might not be the precise reasons. Maybe it was just lucky that they hired people they could trust and motivate. I have always found that the harder I worked, the luckier I got.

You just don't get it, do you?

I agree that he was talking over the heads of the average GOP voter these days, who are mostly below average, and he could have phrased this better. Maybe something short and simple like "e pluribus unum", but that probably wouldn't have been understood either.

Do you understand it?

186 Interesting Times  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 6:26:02pm

re: #184 Coracle

You'll only see and hear that if you work on willfully misunderstanding. I don't think you're actually an idiot, Buck. I think you're malicious.

In before he comes back with:

you don't know me, you just think you do

[dobro slide]

187 JamesWI  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 6:26:58pm

re: #181 Coracle

Come on, Buck. That's just idiotic.

Which is exactly why it came from Buck.

188 Buck  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 6:28:02pm

re: #185 Achilles Tang

the average GOP voter these days, who are mostly below average

Yep, dey is jus all a bunch o dummies. Soooo gald you all smart ones are dare to hep them dummies.

189 Interesting Times  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 6:30:06pm
190 Mattand  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 6:38:33pm

Obama said that success doesn't happen in a vacuum, in what was for him an uncharacteristically clumsy fashion. Listening to the full speech or reading the full quote makes that obvious.

Anyone thinking this is the "proof" that Obama truly hates hard work, capitalism, America, puppies, etc., really, really needs to get a grip and step away from conservative media for a bit.

191 Achilles Tang  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 6:54:20pm

re: #188 Buck

Yep, dey is jus all a bunch o dummies. Sooo gald you all smart ones are dare to hep them dummies.

Only a genuine dummy could only think of a response like that. You should hang out at WND instead of here.

192 Sophia77  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 7:48:13pm

BIG SURPRISE - more flat out lies from the Right.

They so totally remind me of Goebbels.

193 palomino  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 7:49:04pm

re: #178 Buck

I just don't think the rest of the quote helps the President at all.

Now of course people will hear what they want to hear, but deceptive? I don't think so.

The President said what he said, and it would be nice if the whole speech could be repeated every time. However the concept doesn't change for many.

The President is laughing at people who think that brains and hard work was what made them successful.

Well, as you all like to point out, that might not be the precise reasons. Maybe it was just lucky that they hired people they could trust and motivate. I have always found that the harder I worked, the luckier I got.

You can look at this single clip and assert that he laughs at those people. Or you can look at his life in toto and the thousands of other things he's said and realize that not only does he celebrate hard work and intelligence in nearly every speech, he personifies those very qualities in the way he's lived his life. Do you think he got where he is by being lazy and stupid?

Now go fuck yourself. You're quite possibly the stupidest and most dishonest person who posts here regularly.

194 Obdicut  Thu, Jul 19, 2012 7:55:02pm

re: #182 Buck

There are successful people who come from that background. The same class room, the same outdated textbooks.

And more of them come from the places with small classroom sizes, and new textbooks. Not just because of the teaching, but because they know people, have connections, etc. Everyone knows this. It is not just hard work that gets you ahead, and we all know people who work extremely hard and never really get ahead.

Go ahead and fool yourself, but it's only yourself you're fooling. Hell, the goddamn story of Job contradicts your dumb shit.


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