Mass Murder in Colorado Prompts Full-on Right Wing Victimhood Binge

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Awful news from Aurora, Colorado, this morning, where a 24-year old student brought an arsenal into a showing of “The Dark Knight Rises,” and killed at least 12 people in a horrific massacre: Aurora, Colo. Batman Shooter James Holmes Was PhD Student.

The suspected “lone-wolf” shooter of the Batman movie theater massacre in Aurora, Colo., earlier today has been identified as Ph.D. student James Holmes, who recently withdrew from his neuroscience studies at the University of Colorado before shooting up “The Dark Knight Rises” screening.

Holmes, 24, moved to Aurora to pursue his Ph.D. at the University of Colorado medical center, living just blocks from the hospital in an apartment that is now laced with explosives and being searched by HazMat teams.

Holmes killed at least 12 people and injured as many as 50, including U.S. military members, during the midnight premiere of the movie at the Century 16 Movie Theaters in Aurora early this morning. He barged into the theater mid-show, setting off smoke bombs and stalking up and down the aisles firing as many as four weapons at viewers.

He was captured by police in the parking lot while still wearing a bullet-proof vest, riot helmet and gas mask. Federal law enforcement sources tell ABC News that Holmes bought a ticket to the movie, slipped out of the theater once it began and propped open the emergency exit before gathering his weapons and gear and coming back into the theater. Once inside, he opened fire. …

Holmes was caught by police in the parking lot of the movie theater shortly after the shooting still dressed in his riot gear, an outfit eerily similar to a villain in “The Dark Knight Rises.” He warned police that his Aurora apartment was booby-trapped, leading police to evacuate the apartment complex. They were working this morning to gain entry to and diffuse the apartment, which they said seems to be “elaborately” rigged with explosives.

“The pictures we have from inside the apartment are pretty disturbing considering how elaborate the apartment is booby trapped,” police said outside of the apartment complex today. The “flammable and explosive” materials could have blown up Holmes’ apartment building and the ones near it, police said.

Apparently, this news didn’t surprise Holmes’ mother: Aurora Suspect James Holmes’ Mother: ‘You Have the Right Person’.

A California woman who identified herself as the mother of James Holmes, the 24-year-old man federal authorities said is the suspect in a mass shooting in an Aurora, Colorado movie theater, told ABC News her son was likely the alleged culprit, saying, “You have the right person.”

The woman, contacted at her home in San Diego, spoke briefly with ABC News and immediately expressed concern her son may be involved in the shooting death of at least 12 people overnight.

“You have the right person,” she said, apparently speaking on gut instinct. “I need to call the police… I need to fly out to Colorado.”

Right wing blogs are already freaking out in full-on persecuted victim mode, because an early report from ABC News wrongly confused the shooter with another James Holmes in Colorado, who is a Tea Party member.

In response to this incorrect report, for which ABC News apologized soon after, the wingnut bloggers immediately started digging for evidence that Holmes is connected to the Occupy Wall Street movement. Joel Pollak blared the headline at breitbart.com: EXCLUSIVE: CONTRA ABC NEWS, DARK KNIGHT AURORA, CO SHOOTING SUSPECT JAMES HOLMES COULD BE REGISTERED DEMOCRAT.

Oh, but wait — now there’s an update: “UPDATE: NOT REGISTERED?”

Update (12:49 EDT): Newly-released information on the suspect’s birthdate (which, as indicated in our initial report, was a slight mismatch), combined with new details Breitbart News has obtained about the suspect’s likely addresses, together suggest that the suspect may, in fact, not have been registered to vote.

What a bunch of hateful clowns.

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191 comments
1 neilk  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:29:44am

I didn't forget your birthday, honey, it was just a slight mismatch.

2 Achilles Tang  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:30:19am

I'm always surprised when even major news organizations like ABC don't seem to have proofreaders to check for wrongly used words, let alone spell checkers.

3 Big Joe  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:31:00am

Nice gun ad on the right side of the page.

4 Bulworth  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:31:56am

Yeah but could have been a registered Dem. Like a 50% chance. Maybe. //

5 leftynyc  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:32:06am

The only political statement I've heard from any politican is that moron from TX who blamed a war on Christians.

6 Randall Gross  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:32:34am
7 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:32:37am

re: #3 Big Joe

Nice gun ad on the right side of the page.

ads are served based on keyword.

8 allegro  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:32:52am

If this young man was in a neuroscience PhD program, he is a very, very bright guy. Such a damn waste.

9 mr.fusion  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:32:56am

What an awful event, and more than anything the victims should be the focal point of any analysis

But why does the right wing seem so hell bent on making OWS the equivalent of the Tea Party. Have any Democrats called themselves OWS'ers the way Repubs kowtow to the TP? Did MSNBC do full on advertising for OWS events the way FOXNews supported TP events? Is OWS infiltrating the Democratic Party and forcing their litmus tests on the Dems? They are not the same thing

10 Bulworth  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:33:05am

re: #5 leftynyc

The only political statement I've heard from any politican is that moron from TX who blamed a war on Christians.

Louie has to be the first. He can't let Steve King(R-a$shole) get that credit. /

11 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:33:28am

re: #5 leftynyc

The only political statement I've heard from any politican is that moron from TX who blamed a war on Christians.

Yes. If I wanted to make sure the only people I shot were Christians, I would go right to a Batman movie. Non-Christians hate Batman.

What?

12 Kragar  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:33:31am

This is no time for partisan politics, but I think that no matter what, we can all agree this was caused by Obama's utter failure as President.
///

13 Randall Gross  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:34:08am
14 allegro  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:34:19am

re: #7 Learned Mother of Zion

ads are served based on keyword.

And browsing history. I'm getting ads for electric fireplaces.

15 Randall Gross  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:34:45am

NYT/ The Lede also reporting that the suspect's hair was painted red

16 Big Joe  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:34:46am

re: #7 Learned Mother of Zion

ads are served based on keyword.

Yeah, I know. Here's an unfortunate ad on Denver Post's article of the shooting.

17 Randall Gross  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:35:26am

re: #15 Randall Gross

NYT/ The Lede also reporting that the suspect's hair was painted red

That's hearsay though from a NY police official who knows the officials in Denver.

18 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:35:57am

re: #14 allegro

And browsing history. I'm getting ads for electric fireplaces.

When I buy stuff at Land's End or FragranceNet, I get Land's End and FragranceNet ads for a couple of hours. It sure beats the crappy ads for "Language Professors Hate Him!" "Energy Corporations Hate Him!" "Skin Doctors Hate Her!"

19 neilk  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:36:41am

The Joker, as we all know, has green hair.

20 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:37:10am

re: #19 neilk

The Joker, as we all know, has green hair.

FAIL

21 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:37:44am

I thought the "emergency exits" sounded an alarm when opened--no?

Last time I tried one it did. :)

22 Achilles Tang  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:37:48am

re: #3 Big Joe

Nice gun ad on the right side of the page.

So, what have you been shopping for recently?

23 researchok  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:38:13am

re: #2 Achilles Tang

Too fast moving, wanting to be first... you know the rest.

Remember Cronkite's outburst at the Kennedy assassination- "Can't we verify this first!"

Those days are gone.

We've evolved into cable news.
//

24 Randall Gross  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:38:55am

[Link: thelede.blogs.nytimes.com...]

25 Randall Gross  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:40:20am

That link also has the red hair story if you scroll down.

26 celticdragon  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:40:35am

Lots of Walter Mitty fantasy types at the Daily Beast gleefully imagining how they would somehow magically kill the gunman in a pitch dark theater full of screaming, confused people while smoke/tear gas grenades are going off...not to mention that the gunman has body armor and a rifle...

27 neilk  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:40:48am

Did any Colorado police claim he said he was the Joker?

28 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:40:49am

re: #8 allegro

If this young man was in a neuroscience PhD program, he is a very, very bright guy. Such a damn waste.

crazy and brilliant seem to go together.

I think very smart people have a difficult time coping with a "normal" world. It just doesn't make sense to them.

We need to remove the stigma of mental health treatment. In high schools especially, we tend to think the low performers need the help --often it's the high achievers that really need it.

29 Interesting Times  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:41:51am
30 celticdragon  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:42:11am

re: #28 ggt

crazy and brilliant seem to go together.

I think very smart people have a difficult time coping with a "normal" world. It just doesn't make sense to them.

We need to remove the stigma of mental health treatment. In high schools especially, we tend to think the low performers need the help --often it's the high achievers that really need it.

Using an over broad brush there. Most very smart people go on to have kids and buy a nice car with their nice house.

31 Randall Gross  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:42:16am

re: #27 neilk

None that I"m aware of, A. Kacynski is generally reliable though.

32 Lidane  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:42:29am

re: #26 celticdragon

Lots of Walter Mitty fantasy types at the Daily Beast gleefully imagining how they would somehow magically kill the gunman in a pitch dark theater full of screaming, confused people while smoke/tear gas grenades are going off...not to mention that the gunman has body armor and a rifle...

Typical right wing posturing bullshit. They assume that in the same moment, they would have been perfectly clear-headed and able to take aim at a guy who had the presence of mind to wear full riot gear before he opened fire.

33 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:42:30am

re: #26 celticdragon

Lots of Walter Mitty fantasy types at the Daily Beast gleefully imagining how they would somehow magically kill the gunman in a pitch dark theater full of screaming, confused people while smoke/tear gas grenades are going off...not to mention that the gunman has body armor and a rifle...

There's a reason that "fire in a crowded theater" is an ancient meme.

34 Randall Gross  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:43:34am

[Link: www.buzzfeed.com...]

35 celticdragon  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:43:44am

BBL

Everybody remember to hug your family extra hard tonight. We all need it.

36 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:44:05am

re: #30 celticdragon

Using an over broad brush there. Most very smart people go on to have kids and buy a nice car with their nice house.

Over-broad? I'll accept broad.

Unibomber, the psychiatrist, --just the last two I can think of that were academically smart.

I'd have to do a study to see how many of the mass-shooters were book smart.

and yes, most not-so-smart people go on to have families and do just fine.

37 neilk  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:44:25am

re: #31 Randall Gross

I'm sure Kaczynski is reliable, but I'm not so sure about Ray Kelly.

38 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:44:58am

Of course. It's always the poor widdle conservatives are being picked on by the big meanie liberals. ABC fucked up, they apologized, have any of the right wing media outlets that have claimed this guy was a far leftist apologized or the one guy that claimed that Obama's supporters were happy about this tragedy? Fucking right wing babies.

39 Interesting Times  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:45:25am
40 lawhawk  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:46:03am

re: #15 Randall Gross

That's also what NYPD Commish Ray Kelly said according to the info he had - that Holmes said he was The Joker. Kelly is apparently good friends with Aurora PD Commissioner Dan Oates.

41 The Left  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:48:09am

re: #39 Interesting Times

[Embedded content]

I love top conservative cat!

42 SmithCommaJohn  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:48:23am

Every time there's a major tragedy in the news, the right wing blogs are the first to come out with the "I'M THE REAL VICTIM HERE!" bullshit.

It would be hilarious if it weren't so pathetic and disgusting.

43 Gus  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:48:47am
44 leftynyc  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:49:06am

re: #38 HappyWarrior

Of course. It's always the poor widdle conservatives are being picked on by the big meanie liberals. ABC fucked up, they apologized, have any of the right wing media outlets that have claimed this guy was a far leftist apologized or the one guy that claimed that Obama's supporters were happy about this tragedy? Fucking right wing babies.

When did the right become such whiners? I've never seen a bigger bunch of paranoid lunatics in my life. Nothing but fear and anger, fear and anger - all day, every day. How pathetic they have become.

45 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:50:14am

re: #43 Gus

[Embedded content]

GUNS didn't murder anyone.

Not noted, are the violent murders by others means.

I really dislike the gun-crime statistics. Why is death-by-gun so much worse that other forms of death?

46 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:50:50am

re: #44 leftynyc

When did the right become such whiners? I've never seen a bigger bunch of paranoid lunatics in my life. Nothing but fear and anger, fear and anger - all day, every day. How pathetic they have become.

Honestly, they've been whiners for as long as I can remember. It explains why Limbaugh and the whole cottage industry of political talk radio was able to appeal to so many on the right.

47 Velvet Elvis  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:51:32am

Transcript of Obama's remarks on shooting

48 Varek Raith  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:51:56am

re: #45 ggt

GUNS didn't murder anyone.

Not noted, are the violent murders by others means.

I really dislike the gun-crime statistics. Why is death-by-gun so much worse that other forms of death?

Guns make events like this more deadly and easy.

49 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:53:23am

re: #45 ggt

GUNS didn't murder anyone.

Not noted, are the violent murders by others means.

I really dislike the gun-crime statistics. Why is death-by-gun so much worse that other forms of death?

I don't think James Holmes would have been able to murder 12 people with a baseball bat.

50 Varek Raith  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:53:31am

Are the initial reports that he used an AR-15 confirmed?

51 iossarian  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:53:36am

re: #48 Varek Raith

Guns make events like this more deadly and easy.

The nice part about this is that, if they didn't, there would be no reason not to ban them, since you could just as easily defend yourself with a sharp stick.

52 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:53:39am

re: #48 Varek Raith

Guns make events like this more deadly and easy.

I still have a hard time blaming an inanimate object.

53 Varek Raith  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:54:02am

re: #52 ggt

I still have a hard time blaming an inanimate object.

Blame the stupidly easy access to them.

54 neilk  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:54:03am

Pg 89 of The Dark Knight Returns

55 Romantic Heretic  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:54:30am

re: #28 ggt

crazy and brilliant seem to go together.

I think very smart people have a difficult time coping with a "normal" world. It just doesn't make sense to them.

We need to remove the stigma of mental health treatment. In high schools especially, we tend to think the low performers need the help --often it's the high achievers that really need it.

I know that is true in my case. My difficulty in handling the 'unsaids' in society eventually drove me insane.

Also schools and people tend to use a modified Bell Curve. It's shape goes from 0 on the Y axis to max, and then stops. As I've put it in the past, "When I went to school there were only two types of kids in the system; normal and stupid. I wasn't normal."

56 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:54:33am

This is a tragedy, not the wingers freaking out. But they should look on the bright side, at least no one will be asking about Mitt's tax returns for the day

//

too soon perhaps but I always had a morbid sense of humor. This is really a tragedy and my thoughts are with the victims/families.

57 Gus  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:54:37am

re: #52 ggt

I still have a hard time blaming an inanimate object.

Drunk driving is also caused by an inanimate object. As is crashing while texting and so on.

58 iossarian  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:54:41am

re: #54 neilk

Image: kawVV.jpgPg 89 of The Dark Knight Returns

Yeah, that sprang to my mind too.

59 dragonath  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:55:16am

After Killings at Theater, Campaigns Suspend Their Ads in Colorado

60 allegro  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:55:17am

re: #48 Varek Raith

Guns make events like this more deadly and easy.

Rapey stabbers have never managed to kill a dozen people and injure another 50 or so within a few minutes. Probably not the best day for anyone to start defending guns.

61 iossarian  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:56:16am

re: #57 Gus

Drunk driving is also caused by an inanimate object. As is crashing while texting and so on.

Exactly. We have laws governing all kinds of dangerous and anti-social activities.

But somehow we can't regulate guns because in the 18th century a small continental population needed to defend themselves against a large seafaring empire.

62 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:56:21am

re: #57 Gus

Drunk driving is also caused by an inanimate object. As is crashing while texting and so on.

I know, we can't control the innate humanness of humans, so we have to limit their access to toys and such. humans will be humans no matter what we try to do.

63 Gus  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:57:00am

re: #60 allegro

Rapey stabbers have never managed to kill a dozen people and injure another 50 or so within a few minutes. Probably not the best day for anyone to start defending guns.

64 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:57:23am

re: #49 Learned Mother of Zion

I don't think James Holmes would have been able to murder 12 people with a baseball bat.

No, but fix up a propane tank from a gas grill and he could have killed even more than he did. Just look at his booby trapped apartment.

65 Varek Raith  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:57:45am

re: #62 ggt

I know, we can't control the innate humanness of humans, so we have to limit their access to toys and such. humans will be humans no matter what we try to do.

That's just it.
We are doing nothing to prevent stuff like this from happening.
Nothing.
All talk of doing something is forbidden in this country.

66 Gus  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:58:16am

re: #62 ggt

I know, we can't control the innate humanness of humans, so we have to limit their access to toys and such. humans will be humans no matter what we try to do.

Well that's a bit of a libertarian argument you're making then. That no matter how much we attempt to regulate human behavior people will go out there and do stupid things regardless. Then what? We do nothing and continue to do nothing after events such as this. Houston. We've got a problem.

67 ArchangelMichael  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:58:42am

re: #49 Learned Mother of Zion

I don't think James Holmes would have been able to murder 12 people with a baseball bat.

Based on his "booby-trapped" apartment...

He would have probably bombed the theater or set it on fire. Both of which could easily be done with mundane stuff you could get in a grocery store or Home Depot without a waiting period or background check.

68 Gus  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:58:55am

re: #65 Varek Raith

That's just it.
We are doing nothing to prevent stuff like this from happening.
Nothing.
All talk of doing something is forbidden in this country.

The Holy Sacred Church of the Gun

69 iossarian  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:59:11am

re: #64 William Barnett-Lewis

No, but fix up a propane tank from a gas grill and he could have killed even more than he did. Just look at his booby trapped apartment.

I don't get this argument, whereby the existence of some methods of killing people means that you can't regulate other methods of killing people.

It just doesn't make sense at all. "Because you can kill someone with a knife, it makes no sense to prevent people from acquiring personal nuclear warheads."

70 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:59:12am

re: #65 Varek Raith

That's just it.
We are doing nothing to prevent stuff like this from happening.
Nothing.
All talk of doing something is forbidden in this country.

I don't know, I still think crazies will find the methods they want regardless of what we try to do. Can't control crazy --can only try to identify it and treat it.

Again, remove the stigma of mental health treatment.

71 Kragar  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:59:49am

Anyone who really wants to kill someone is going to find a way to do so.

You can however limit their options.

72 Varek Raith  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 10:59:59am

re: #69 iossarian

I don't get this argument, whereby the existence of some methods of killing people means that you can't regulate other methods of killing people.

It just doesn't make sense at all. "Because you can kill someone with a knife, it makes no sense to prevent people from acquiring personal nuclear warheads."

Hey, now, some of us need low yield tactical devices...
/

73 neilk  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:01:02am

Though I agree completely with the sentiment, I can't help but feel this is exactly the wrong time to say "remove the stigma of mental health treatment" because it makes mental health treatment sound like nothing but a way to stop violent criminals before they kill. That is more, not less, of a stigma.

74 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:01:16am

re: #66 Gus

Well that's a bit of a libertarian argument you're making then. That no matter how much we attempt to regulate human behavior people will go out there and do stupid things regardless. Then what? We do nothing and continue to do nothing after events such as this. Houston. We've got a problem.

My only answer is Comprehensive Education and Cost-Free Contraception.

AND I'M STICKING TO IT!

Seriously, we can't have it both ways. If we want freedoms, we have to live with the repercussions. If we want to live in a world without mass violence, we will have to accept a much more controlled enviroment. I don't see any other way.

75 kirkspencer  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:01:43am

re: #45 ggt

GUNS didn't murder anyone.

Not noted, are the violent murders by others means.

I really dislike the gun-crime statistics. Why is death-by-gun so much worse that other forms of death?

to answer the implied question highlighted, see the CDC's preliminary report on deaths and mortality for 2010 at [Link: www.cdc.gov...] .

16065 deaths by assault (homicide). Of those, 11,015 were from firearms. Unspecified and all other means (knives, baseball bats, poisonings, etc) combined to form 5,050 deaths.

Oh, yes, and firearms account for about half of all successful suicides. (19,308 of 37,793).

76 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:02:28am

re: #71 Kragar

Anyone who really wants to kill someone is going to find a way to do so.

You can however limit their options.

Exactly, it will be the rest of us who are limited by the law.

Laws are made for honest, functional people.

77 bubba zanetti  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:02:36am

re: #69 iossarian

Waddya mean I can't own a flamethrower? I could just set fire to something with this lighter in my pocket instead...

78 Varek Raith  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:03:07am

re: #77 bubba zanetti

Waddya mean I can't own a flamethrower? I could just set fire to something with this lighter in my pocket instead...

Actually...
It's quite legal to own a flamethrower.

79 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:03:13am

re: #45 ggt

It's easy to pass laws that one can trumpet each election cycle. What is hard is correcting the criminal impulse.

80 Velvet Elvis  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:03:23am

re: #73 neilk

Though I agree completely with the sentiment, I can't help but feel this is exactly the wrong time to say "remove the stigma of mental health treatment" because it makes mental health treatment sound like nothing but a way to stop violent criminals before they kill. That is more, not less, of a stigma.

As a bipolar gun owner, I always get a little squirmy when these things go down. The only person I'm the slightest bit of a risk to is myself.

81 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:03:24am
82 allegro  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:03:25am

I have two guns: a .22 rifle (needed for work) and a .38 revolver for personal protection. My husband had a large collection of hunting rifles and a couple of handguns. When he died suddenly, the first thing I did was get ALL of the guns out of the house. Why? Because I was insane and I knew it. I was an emotional wreck, consumed by grief and rage and I knew guns were not good things to have around.

Just sayin'.

83 Gus  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:03:28am

You need to pass a yearly medical exam to maintain a pilot's license.

Disqualifying Conditions - (1) Diabetes mellitus requiring hypoglycemic medications; (2) Angina pectoris; (3) Coronary heart disease that has been treated or, if untreated, that has been symptomatic of clinically significant; (4) Myocardial infarction; (5) Cardiac valve replacement; (6) Permanent cardiac pacemaker; (7) Heart replacement; (8) Psychosis; (9) Bipolar disease; (10) Personality disorder that is severe enough to have repeatedly manifested itself by overt acts; (11) Substance dependence; (12) Substance abuse; (13) Epilepsy; (14) Disturbance of consciousness without satisfactory explanation of cause; and (15) Transient loss of control of nervous system function(s) without satisfactory explanation of cause.
NOTE: Waivers for many of these conditions may be obtained through application to the FAA Aeromedical Certification Branch in Oklahoma City.

84 iossarian  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:03:35am

re: #74 ggt

"Freedom" is not a very useful word in the gun control debate, because its meaning has been twisted to only mean rights that are enjoyed by individuals at the potential expense of everyone else.

I want to be free from the oppression of living in a country where anyone can buy a gun and then shoot me on a whim. Can I have that freedom please?

85 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:04:23am

re: #75 kirkspencer

to answer the implied question highlighted, see the CDC's preliminary report on deaths and mortality for 2010 at [Link: www.cdc.gov...] .

16065 deaths by assault (homicide). Of those, 11,015 were from firearms. Unspecified and all other means (knives, baseball bats, poisonings, etc) combined to form 5,050 deaths.

Oh, yes, and firearms account for about half of all successful suicides. (19,308 of 37,793).

Thanks, I haven't looked-up those stats in a while. Seem to be about the same as when I was last researching them.

86 Gus  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:04:39am

Ooga booga! We're coming for yer gunz!!

87 iossarian  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:04:43am

re: #83 Gus

You need to pass a yearly medical exam to maintain a pilot's license.

Yeah, but they didn't have planes in the 18th century, so no constitutional protection for you!

88 bubba zanetti  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:04:56am

re: #78 Varek Raith

Actually...
It's quite legal to own a flamethrower.

Well that changes my weekend plans!

89 Ojoe  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:04:58am

Laura's law might have helped here.

We had a sad case in our Northern California county within the last year where it almost certainly would have helped, but it was not on the books here, and instead we lost two fine and much-loved local citizens, and then after that the disturbed killer, who was hunted down in the woods and shot, after he had fired on those trying to apprehend him.

Laura' Law

90 Kragar  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:05:58am

re: #76 ggt

Exactly, it will be the rest of us who are limited by the law.

Laws are made for honest, functional people.

Honest, functional people would not be limited in any way by gun control laws because they're honest, functional people.

91 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:06:02am

re: #80 Velvet Elvis

As a bipolar gun owner, I always get a little squirmy when these things go down. The only person I'm the slightest bit of a risk to is myself.

The difference is that a person with a disorder in treatment is much healthier than a person with the disorder that isn't (or worse is in denial and self-medicating).

92 Gus  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:06:02am

re: #87 iossarian

Yeah, but they didn't have planes in the 18th century, so no constitutional protection for you!

Amazing isn't it? We're stuck in a 1776. Whatever I suppose. You just have to respect the gun religion I suppose.

93 Varek Raith  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:06:15am

re: #88 bubba zanetti

Well that changes my weekend plans!

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

94 Cap'n Magic  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:06:28am

First lesson if you go Lone Wolf: Make sure you got your false-flag plantings hardened and vettable and can't be attacked by those you intend to smear.

95 Randall Gross  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:06:35am

re: #81 Charles Johnson

Do you ever get the sense that desperation is setting in over there & they are trolling for audience anyway they can get it? I've been wondering how much longer paychecks would be going out over there.

96 Gus  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:07:51am
97 Interesting Times  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:07:56am

re: #68 Gus

The Holy Sacred Church of the Gun

98 bubba zanetti  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:08:50am
99 neilk  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:09:12am

Holy crap. Well, now it's the worst mass-shooting in US history without a doubt, right?

100 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:09:54am

re: #84 iossarian

"Freedom" is not a very useful word in the gun control debate, because its meaning has been twisted to only mean rights that are enjoyed by individuals at the potential expense of everyone else.

I want to be free from the oppression of living in a country where anyone can buy a gun and then shoot me on a whim. Can I have that freedom please?

I don't know. Doesn't sound practical with the number of people in the country. It would take a rather oppressive government to accomplish that.

Remember, that 16K deaths by firearm, is still a very, very small part of the population. If someone would be kind enough to do the math --I think you are more likely to die by other means, statistically.

I get upset at the focus on guns. I don't understand it. There are are other heinous awful means by which a person can be hurt and die in the world. Maybe people focus on it because they feel it is something that can be changed, unlike natural disasters or plane crashes.

101 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:10:11am

Dumb Twits pleading with Google adsense to be sensitive and not serve gun ads on websites that are discussing the shooting.

Freaking dumbasses, Google Adsense is a BOT, it has no sensitivity.

102 Gus  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:10:17am

re: #99 neilk

Holy crap. Well, now it's the worst mass-shooting in US history without a doubt, right?

No. I think the 10 bodies are part of the 12 already reported as dead. The worst remains Virginia Tech.

103 Kragar  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:10:28am

Pig fucker decides to chime in:

Fischer: Removal of Prayer & Ten Commandments from Schools Responsible for CO Shooting

Not to be outdone by Jerry Newcombe, Bryan Fischer has also decided to weigh in on the tragic shooting in Colorado with a column citing none other than David Barton to make the case that it was the removal of prayer and the Ten Commandments from our public schools that is the cause of this shooting and everything else bad that is happening in America, so it is high time to stop letting "the left" destroy this nation:

104 neilk  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:11:21am

Oh, I thought it meant 12 plus 10 still in the theater. It's still the most people shot by a single gunman (Cho shot 49, or 50 if you count him shooting himself)

105 Gus  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:11:58am
106 Kragar  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:12:10am

re: #99 neilk

Holy crap. Well, now it's the worst mass-shooting in US history without a doubt, right?

Highest number of wounded, not deaths I think.

107 Varek Raith  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:12:12am

re: #103 Kragar

Pig fucker decides to chime in:

Fischer: Removal of Prayer & Ten Commandments from Schools Responsible for CO Shooting

So much for personal responsibility...
Then again, that was always a sham of the right.

108 ArchangelMichael  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:12:13am

re: #99 neilk

Holy crap. Well, now it's the worst mass-shooting in US history without a doubt, right?

There was 32 dead at VT.

109 Lidane  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:12:35am

re: #103 Kragar

Pig fucker decides to chime in:

Fischer: Removal of Prayer & Ten Commandments from Schools Responsible for CO Shooting

If I believed in Hell, I'd want these people to find themselves there. Ugh. What a douche.

110 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:12:38am

re: #89 Ojoe

Laura's law might have helped here.

We had a sad case in our Northern California county within the last year where it almost certainly would have helped, but it was not on the books here, and instead we lost two fine and much-loved local citizens, and then after that the disturbed killer, who was hunted down in the woods and shot, after he had fired on those trying to apprehend him.

Laura' Law

I wish. So much progress has been made in mental health treatment.

111 iossarian  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:13:05am

re: #100 ggt

Maybe people focus on it because they feel it is something that can be changed, unlike natural disasters or plane crashes.

YA THINK?

There are people being killed and we can do something about it.

/But we shouldn't do it because they can be killed in other ways! Plus tricorne hats and muzzle-loading blunderbusses./*

It makes no sense at all.

* I considered putting this in wingnut tags but relented. It's still an unfathomable argument.

112 wrenchwench  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:14:00am

re: #91 ggt

The difference is that a person with a disorder in treatment is much healthier than a person with the disorder that isn't (or worse is in denial and self-medicating).

Last week I spent two hours with an acquaintance who was diagnosed two years ago (we haven't been close, and I didn't know, but had stopped her on the street because she looked like she was going to cry). She "fell through the cracks" when her doctor died. She's had a lot of trouble getting help since then. And yes, she drank to stop the dreams, even though she knew it would make things worse over all.

Even when the "safety net" isn't broken, it's mostly holes.

113 JRCMYP  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:14:44am

re: #8 allegro

If this young man was in a neuroscience PhD program, he is a very, very bright guy. Such a damn waste.

My first thought, actually, was schizophrenia, sadly.

114 Velvet Elvis  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:16:34am
I wish. So much progress has been made in mental health treatment.

This guy took a class on the biological basis of mental illness. You'd think his classmates and teachers would have noticed if he was a bit off.

115 Gus  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:16:51am

Nothing will change. America will retreat into denial once again.

116 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:17:40am

re: #111 iossarian

YA THINK?

There are people being killed and we can do something about it.

/But we shouldn't do it because they can be killed in other ways! Plus tricorne hats and muzzle-loading blunderbusses./*

It makes no sense at all.

* I considered putting this in wingnut tags but relented. It's still an unfathomable argument.

I don't know iossarian. I don't think we'll ever get to zero deaths by gun violence. How much of the government resources are you willing to allocate to it--is it worth the cost to zero in on one form of death?

117 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:18:26am

FAIL of the Day:

118 allegro  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:18:33am

re: #113 JRCMYP

My first thought, actually, was schizophrenia, sadly.

I've been thinking about that as well. One of my star grad students at about that age (I think he was bout 23 at the time) started to behave strangely and inexplicably. Had a weird kinda melt-down during a field study and we had to get him back to civilization quickly. Very scary. When schizophrenia manifests it can happen fast apparently. It's a ghastly disorder and so destructive.

119 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:18:45am

re: #112 wrenchwench

Last week I spent two hours with an acquaintance who was diagnosed two years ago (we haven't been close, and I didn't know, but had stopped her on the street because she looked like she was going to cry). She "fell through the cracks" when her doctor died. She's had a lot of trouble getting help since then. And yes, she drank to stop the dreams, even though she knew it would make things worse over all.

Even when the "safety net" isn't broken, it's mostly holes.

In my perfect world, there would be advocates who know exactly how to navigate the system for every one.

120 iossarian  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:19:12am

re: #116 ggt

I don't know iossarian. I don't think we'll ever get to zero deaths by gun violence. How much of the government resources are you willing to allocate to it--is it worth the cost to zero in on one form of death?

Looking at other developed countries, and the effects that their gun laws have, I would say yes, and it's not even close.

121 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:19:41am

Ain't it the truth!

122 kirkspencer  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:19:52am

re: #100 ggt

I don't know. Doesn't sound practical with the number of people in the country. It would take a rather oppressive government to accomplish that.

Remember, that 16K deaths by firearm, is still a very, very small part of the population. If someone would be kind enough to do the math --I think you are more likely to die by other means, statistically.

I get upset at the focus on guns. I don't understand it. There are are other heinous awful means by which a person can be hurt and die in the world. Maybe people focus on it because they feel it is something that can be changed, unlike natural disasters or plane crashes.

bad argument. really bad, as it carries an unintended implication. Specifically, 16K murders don't really matter.

Murder hangs around number 15 (give or take) for cause of death in the US. Suicide skirts the top ten. If we separate for just firearms, suicide by firearm still hangs in the top 15 and murder in the top 20. (Accident - as a whole number 5 - by firearm drops out of the top 50. The big one there is automobile.)

123 The Mountain That Blogs  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:20:55am

re: #117 Learned Mother of Zion

Methinks the social media coordinator intern at Celeb Boutique should start dusting off his/her resume.

124 JRCMYP  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:21:43am

re: #118 allegro

I've been thinking about that as well. One of my star grad students at about that age (I think he was bout 23 at the time) started to behave strangely and inexplicably. Had a weird kinda melt-down during a field study and we had to get him back to civilization quickly. Very scary. When schizophrenia manifests it can happen fast apparently. It's a ghastly disorder and so destructive.

My nephew was diagnosed a few months ago and it was very, very fast. We were all quite shocked.

The age of this young man fits, and that he dropped out of school. And that his mother seems to have not been confused by his being associated with something so bizarre.

125 Kragar  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:22:08am

re: #117 Learned Mother of Zion

FAIL of the Day:

[Embedded content]

That is about the time I grab someone by the ear, twist, and drag them into the corner and discuss appropriate topics of discussion.

126 Velvet Elvis  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:22:12am

re: #122 kirkspencer

Murder hangs around number 15 (give or take) for cause of death in the US. Suicide skirts the top ten. If we separate for just firearms, suicide by firearm still hangs in the top 15 and murder in the top 20. (Accident - as a whole number 5 - by firearm drops out of the top 50. The big one there is automobile.)

Break that down into age demographics and you'll find both are leading causes of death for people under 30.

127 iossarian  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:23:14am

OK, got to get some stuff achieved here. Bye all!

128 ArchangelMichael  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:23:35am

re: #125 Kragar

That is about the time I grab someone by the ear, twist, and drag them into the corner and discuss appropriate topics of discussion.

“Could you come over here and talk to me for a second, please? Would you just come over here for a second, please? Right over here. Come here, Francine!”

129 Varek Raith  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:23:39am

re: #117 Learned Mother of Zion

FAIL of the Day:

[Embedded content]

Good grief.

130 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:23:57am

re: #120 iossarian

Looking at other developed countries, and the effects that their gun laws have, I would say yes, and it's not even close.

I'd have to do some hours going thru my piles to find specific info . . . the gist
is that the Public Health research has a hard time comparing the US to any other country. You can't use that as a measure.

Other countries don't have our size, diversity and history.

We have to determine what we are willing to live with. What we want and are willing to pay for.

I'd like to live in a country in which every child is planned and wanted by two parents who are committed to each other and the child for life, one in which children are cherished as the individuals they are. But, I can't have that anymore than I can have a country free of violent death.

131 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:25:11am

re: #120 iossarian

& GGT :-)

The essential difference may be that Americans have far less reluctance to get violent for various purposes. Crimes, passion, accidents. I remember a study about how common road rage is here compared to some other western nations. Can't find it right now.

132 Ojoe  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:25:21am

re: #130 ggt

It is an imperfect world.

133 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:27:20am

re: #122 kirkspencer

bad argument. really bad, as it carries an unintended implication. Specifically, 16K murders don't really matter.

Murder hangs around number 15 (give or take) for cause of death in the US. Suicide skirts the top ten. If we separate for just firearms, suicide by firearm still hangs in the top 15 and murder in the top 20. (Accident - as a whole number 5 - by firearm drops out of the top 50. The big one there is automobile.)

I think we are debating two different things here. And I'm not feeling up to the debate (allergies and migraine). I shouldn't have started it today.

Firearms seem to be a hot button topic for many. I don't understand that, but I have my own hot button topics I'm sure others don't understand either.

134 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:27:35am

re: #26 celticdragon

Lots of Walter Mitty fantasy types at the Daily Beast gleefully imagining how they would somehow magically kill the gunman in a pitch dark theater full of screaming, confused people while smoke/tear gas grenades are going off...not to mention that the gunman has body armor and a rifle...

As I said on the last thread, I cannot imagine what I would do in such a situation, if I had a gun that would be markedly different from what I would do in such a situation without a gun. The only thing I can imagine is to keep a hand on it, and try to get out of the line of fire. You might be able to get off a shot if the guy approached you directly. But it sounds as though he was shooting randomly.

135 R.M, Ramallo  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:27:48am

re: #103 Kragar

Well, what if it turns out the guy was a Warrior For Christ ?

136 Gus  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:28:46am

re: #132 Ojoe

It is an imperfect world.

Ron Paul!

137 Blizard  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:29:34am

I am really sad this happened in my state. The bodies of deceased are still warm and BOTH sides are guilty of politicking already. It's despicable, and part of what's wrong with America today.

I love this place and continue to have faith in 99.9% of the folks that live here. Please send Colorado some good vibes.

138 Gus  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:29:41am

Yeah. Let's do nothing. So out of respect for the dead we shouldn't go ahead and offend the gun lobby.

Give me a freaking break.

139 Eventual Carrion  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:30:07am

re: #103 Kragar

Pig fucker decides to chime in:

Fischer: Removal of Prayer & Ten Commandments from Schools Responsible for CO Shooting

So it took 50 years to manifest itself in this way? Yeah right

140 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:30:30am

re: #45 ggt

GUNS didn't murder anyone.

Not noted, are the violent murders by others means.

I really dislike the gun-crime statistics. Why is death-by-gun so much worse that other forms of death?

It's not worse, it's just a lot easier to kill more people faster with guns than with most other methods. Molly Ivins used to say she wasn't pro-gun, she was anti-knife. She felt our fitness as a nation would improve if we had to chase one another around with knives to murder each other.

Explosives, of course, are worse, and it seems this guy was playing with those too.

141 kirkspencer  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:30:35am

re: #116 ggt

I don't know iossarian. I don't think we'll ever get to zero deaths by gun violence. How much of the government resources are you willing to allocate to it--is it worth the cost to zero in on one form of death?

Why can't I allocate more resources for a major dropoff in deaths?

I don't have to aim for zero.

I'll run a simple two-part requirement that'll cause most NRA types to scream at me: Mandatory registration of all firearms. Part two: all ownership requires safety classes (repeated at regular intervals).

142 ArchangelMichael  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:30:37am

re: #131 Daniel Ballard

The essential difference may be that Americans have far less reluctance to get violent for various purposes. Crimes, passion, accidents. I remember a study about how common road rage is here compared to some other western nations. Can't find it right now.

Americans generally are way too high-strung, over-worked, and stressed out. Stress puts a lot of people on a hair trigger.

I don't know the master plan for how we as a nation will fix that. Giving everyone 3 months of paid vacation every year like some European countries do is probably not the answer to this problem (although it might help).

143 A Mom Anon  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:30:44am

In the process of rebuilding our infrastructure,maybe we could work on facilities and professionals who deal with mental illness? Maybe?

And maybe it might be worth our time and energy to look at whether or not there are cultural factors at work here as well. Something is really wrong here and every time something like this happens it's a smack with a clue-by-four that something is fundamentally wrong with our society. Why do we have so much fascination with death and violence? (even inane things like the current craze of vampires and zombies and things like skulls decorating everything from sneakers and clothing to tattoos to even boats and cars) Why on earth are we so blessed and yet so freaking angry and miserable? Why are so many of us clinically depressed,on meds, suffering from anxiety and feel so lost? What can we do to make that better? I see these sorts of things,this shooting and the hundreds of other violent deaths and injuries as warnings that we are not heeding.

144 Ojoe  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:30:53am

re: #136 Gus

Well in my idea of a perfect world, there is no Ron Paul, but there are lots of blimps and airships.

But obviously from this you can see that I am crazy.

145 Gus  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:31:27am

re: #141 kirkspencer

Why can't I allocate more resources for a major dropoff in deaths?

I don't have to aim for zero.

I'll run a simple two-part requirement that'll cause most NRA types to scream at me: Mandatory registration of all firearms. Part two: all ownership requires safety classes (repeated at regular intervals).

Part three: yearly medical exam including psychological testing.

146 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:32:00am

re: #134 SanFranciscoZionist

As I said on the last thread, I cannot imagine what I would do in such a situation, if I had a gun that would be markedly different from what I would do in such a situation without a gun. The only thing I can imagine is to keep a hand on it, and try to get out of the line of fire. You might be able to get off a shot if the guy approached you directly. But it sounds as though he was shooting randomly.

Last week I was listening to an interview on NPR with an Iraq vet who had PTSD, he was carrying a pistol around everywhere he went and constantly imagining every situation he was in developing into an "active shooter" event. Ultimately he realized that he needed help and got it. It's not possible to live a normal life that way.

147 Kragar  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:32:02am

re: #135 OhNoZombies!

Well, what if it turns out the guy was a Warrior For Christ ?

Oh, then it was just God's plan.

148 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:32:14am

re: #138 Gus

The first and second amendments have been upheld by the highest court. Both suffer regular attacks, some far more sensible than others. It's not about the gun lobby IMO, it's about solving the problems within our law. We need the amendments intact.

149 dell*nix  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:32:29am

Would you trust our current crop of politicos to write the mental health laws? To define what is healthy? The definition of functional?

Can you force someone to take their meds under current law? Should we go back to the system of mental hospitals we used to have?

How do you define what is competent mental care and what is abusive?

150 Gus  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:33:19am

re: #148 Daniel Ballard

The first and second amendments have been upheld by the highest court. Both suffer regular attacks, some far more sensible than others. It's not about the gun lobby IMO, it's about solving the problems within our law. We need the amendments intact.

Gun ownership is a privilege and not a right. No, that's not the legal definition of the 18th century mindset but that's the truth in this 21st century world.

151 dragonath  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:33:21am

re: #28 ggt

We need to remove the stigma of mental health treatment. In high schools especially, we tend to think the low performers need the help --often it's the high achievers that really need it.

A lot of the people who run high schools tend to look at mental health treatment and special education as a punishment. The entire system needs reform, especially in the military (as in the recent scandal, staff psychologists who intentionally ignored PTSD cases).

152 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:33:33am

re: #149 dell*nix

Would you trust our current crop of politicos to write the mental health laws? To define what is healthy? The definition of functional?

Can you force someone to take their meds under current law? Should we go back to the system of mental hospitals we used to have?

How do you define what is competent mental care and what is abusive?

yep!

It's a conundrum.

153 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:33:38am

re: #73 neilk

Though I agree completely with the sentiment, I can't help but feel this is exactly the wrong time to say "remove the stigma of mental health treatment" because it makes mental health treatment sound like nothing but a way to stop violent criminals before they kill. That is more, not less, of a stigma.

This. It's like saying we should fund cancer research because one in a hundred thousand cancer patients turns into a werewolf and bites people's throats out.

154 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:33:46am

re: #141 kirkspencer

Why can't I allocate more resources for a major dropoff in deaths?

I don't have to aim for zero.

I'll run a simple two-part requirement that'll cause most NRA types to scream at me: Mandatory registration of all firearms. Part two: all ownership requires safety classes (repeated at regular intervals).

I agree with those requirements.

155 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:33:53am

re: #92 Gus

Amazing isn't it? We're stuck in a 1776. Whatever I suppose. You just have to respect the gun religion I suppose.

But if the GOP and the Tea Party take us all back to before 1776 doesn't all that go away as well!?!
///

156 Ojoe  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:33:54am

re: #149 dell*nix

Would you trust our current crop of politicos to write the mental health laws? To define what is healthy? The definition of functional?

Can you force someone to take their meds under current law? Should we go back to the system of mental hospitals we used to have?

How do you define what is competent mental care and what is abusive?

Laura's Law attempts to deal with these things.

157 R.M, Ramallo  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:34:41am

re: #147 Kragar

Indubitably !

158 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:34:42am

Looks like the "Boutique" has attracted quite a bit of negative attention, which may have been its intent all along. Maybe not such a FAIL for them.

159 Eventual Carrion  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:35:47am

re: #121 Learned Mother of Zion

Ain't it the truth!

Funny (in strange way) that almost all mass murders and serial killers in the US are white. FBI profile teams start with that assumption when faced with a serial killer because it holds in a vast majority of cases.

160 kirkspencer  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:36:36am

re: #145 Gus

Part three: yearly medical exam including psychological testing.

No. Not when we don't require that for driving a vehicle, a cause of significantly more deaths. It's too much cost for too small a return.

Ironically, I think that it'd make a great support for a national healthcare system. The US government pays for basic healthcare that includes an annual physical and mental health examination. At that point you can tie a lot of licenses to it.

But by itself it crosses the 'too little return for too much cost' aka diminishing returns line.

161 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:37:35am

Some say this sort of thing never happens.

Armed passerby saved woman from brutal attack near downtown Athens

162 Gus  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:37:56am

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people a deranged psychotic crackhead to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

163 Gus  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:38:06am

Oh boy. Bye for now.

164 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:38:17am

re: #159 RayFerd

Funny (in strange way) that almost all mass murders and serial killers in the US are white. FBI profile teams start with that assumption when faced with a serial killer because it holds in a vast majority of cases.

inbreeding

165 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:38:48am

re: #159 RayFerd

Funny (in strange way) that almost all mass murders and serial killers in the US are white. FBI profile teams start with that assumption when faced with a serial killer because it holds in a vast majority of cases.

Their profilers totally missed the D.C. shooter. He was caught by accident, IIRC.

166 Ojoe  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:38:57am

re: #160 kirkspencer

No. Not when we don't require that for driving a vehicle, a cause of significantly more deaths. It's too much cost for too small a return.

Ironically, I think that it'd make a great support for a national health care system. The US government pays for basic health care that includes an annual physical and mental health examination. At that point you can tie a lot of licenses to it.

But by itself it crosses the 'too little return for too much cost' aka diminishing returns line.

Too much gov't power to have some bureaucrat certifying every year that you are legally sane. That idea gives me the heebie-jeebies.

167 Blizard  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:40:35am

re: #138 Gus

Yeah. Let's do nothing. So out of respect for the dead we shouldn't go ahead and offend the gun lobby.

Give me a freaking break.

Not sure if that was directed at me? I own guns, but I don't support the NRA. I'm just asking for positive vibes for the state and voicing my own opinion that yeah, a little more time needs to pass before shit gets political. More info needs to be known. But it's too late. I know this.

This hits closer to home than for many of you. Policeman and bomb squad guys' lives are still in danger at this very moment.

168 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:41:11am

re: #150 Gus

It's the legal truth today, backed by a very recent SCOTUS decision. I'm sorry if this upsets or angers you.

169 wrenchwench  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:42:23am

re: #161 Daniel Ballard

Some say this sort of thing never happens.

Armed passerby saved woman from brutal attack near downtown Athens

Would he have done nothing if he hadn't had a gun? Would he have done anything had he known the other guy had a gun? Would you have linked that if the perp had shot and killed the passerby?

170 Kragar  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:42:28am

Expired Assault Weapons Ban Would Have Covered Rifle Used In Colorado Shooting

One of the principal weapons used by James Eagan Holmes in the horrific Dark Knight Rises shooting would have been subject to a series of sharp restrictions under the now-expired federal Assault Weapons ban. The AR-15 rife carried by Holmes, a civilian semi-automatic version of the military M-16, would have been defined as a “semiautomatic assault weapon” under the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994. If the law was still in force, semiautomatic assault weapons would have been outright banned:

171 Eventual Carrion  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:42:59am

re: #144 Ojoe

Well in my idea of a perfect world, there is no Ron Paul, but there are lots of blimps and airships.

But obviously from this you can see that I am crazy.

Man walks into shrinks office, naked, wrapped in transparent cellophane wrap. Shrink looks up from his desk and says, "I can clearly see your nuts!".

172 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:44:14am

IMHO, the point of the is the Right to Self-Defense by any means possible from imminent danger.

I don't understand why techies and geeks haven't developed an alternative weapon to the projectile firearm for civilian self-defense. At least one that is legal for citizens to own.

This should be the focus of our resources and efforts, not fighting about guns. With such a weapon, guns would be unnecessary.

We are living in a Sci-Fi world. WHERE IS MY PHASER??? I know, it's in the glove box of my hover car.

Sarcasm aside, I think we are concentrating on the wrong issue.

173 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:44:15am

re: #159 RayFerd

Funny (in strange way) that almost all mass murders and serial killers in the US are white. FBI profile teams start with that assumption when faced with a serial killer because it holds in a vast majority of cases.

Well, the country is almost eighty percent white.

Also, I think that cultural perception colors this a great deal. I recall that when that rash of school shootings happened after Columbine, they kept saying that all the shooters were white. However, around the same time, I read a newspaper article about a young black teen, fourteen or so, who brought a gun to school and shot a couple of classmates, because, by his account, his girlfriend broke up with him, and people were making fun of him.

It was exactly the profile of several 'school shooters' of the day, but he was black, and it was an urban setting, and the papers speculated about gang affiliations, and didn't connect it to the 'school shooting epidemic'.

So I wonder if a black serial killer may similarly be seen in a different way by law enforcement, just because he's not the profile.

There may be other reasons as well, of course.

My favorite weird statistic is that a much higher percentage of white than black prisoners profile as sociopaths, but I think there's once again, a societally-based reason for that.

174 wrenchwench  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:44:18am

re: #168 Daniel Ballard

It's the legal truth today, backed by a very recent SCOTUS decision. I'm sorry if this upsets or angers you.

That doesn't mean the gun lobbyist are blameless.

175 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:44:38am

re: #150 Gus

Gun ownership is a privilege and not a right. No, that's not the legal definition of the 18th century mindset but that's the truth in this 21st century world.

Except, of course, that it is a right. And if you really think you want to change that reality, how can you be sure you won't lose the 1st, 4th, 5th & 8th in the process? Be careful what you wish for & all that.

176 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:45:37am

re: #169 wrenchwench

What if is hypothetical. What I linked was real. Reality has a contrary to memes bias.

177 Ojoe  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:46:24am

re: #171 RayFerd

Nurse @ shrink's office: "Doctor, there's a man here who thinks he's invisible."

Doctor: "Tell him I can't see him."

178 Blizard  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:48:07am

re: #173 SanFranciscoZionist

Nathan Dunlap, Chuck-E-Cheese murders, also in Aurora, Colorado. 1993

179 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:48:08am

re: #170 Kragar

Expired Assault Weapons Ban Would Have Covered Rifle Used In Colorado Shooting

No, it wouldn't have been. All someone needed to do to make a "post ban" rifle was change the flash suppresor & make sure the mag either held 10 rounds or was made before the "ban" took effect. Then said rifle was legal to shoot again.

Though that badly written law is why the industry is trying desperately to rebrand black guns as "Modern Sporting Rifles". It was a really bad piece of law that only hurt the law abiding.

180 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:54:21am

re: #178 Blizard

Nathan Dunlap, Chuck-E-Cheese murders, also in Aurora, Colorado. 1993

Sure, and there was the guy who shot up the Christian school in Oakland just a few months ago, and the Virginia Tech shooter was Asian.

On the serial killer side, you have the Grim Sleeper, Michael Hughes, Chester Turner, Coral Eugene Watts...all black. The Night Stalker was Latino.

181 wrenchwench  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:56:34am

re: #176 Daniel Ballard

What if is hypothetical. What I linked was real. Reality has a contrary to memes bias.

And anecdotes are meaningless. You don't even know what reality is in this case. My questions are as real as your link.

182 kirkspencer  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:58:26am

re: #148 Daniel Ballard

The first and second amendments have been upheld by the highest court. Both suffer regular attacks, some far more sensible than others. It's not about the gun lobby IMO, it's about solving the problems within our law. We need the amendments intact.

They are rights. They are also, neither of them, unlimited rights. Sticking to the less controversial first amendment:
you do not have the right to slander or libel;
you may not incite riot, nor falsely cry "fire" in a crowded theater;
private organizations may restrict your speech within the bounds of their properties;
You can be required to obtained a permit to demonstrate on a street corner or in a park, and that permit can be denied.

183 deadletterboy  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 12:00:47pm

People doing "damage control" like this are the definition of self-serving, disingenuous fuckers. They're heinous and should be ashamed of themselves. The fact that this "what religion/political affiliation is he/she" happens every time a mass-murder occurs in this country says way more about the US than I like.

184 Randall Gross  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 12:01:23pm

There's already a deserved new entry under "Controversies" in Brian Ross's wikipedia page.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

185 Romantic Heretic  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 12:19:44pm

I wonder what the death toll of vehicles would be like if there were no requirements for training, mental and physical health?

186 Blizard  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 12:36:44pm

re: #180 SanFranciscoZionist

Local blogs and news channels here immediately filled up with generalized comments with words like 'thug' and 'gangster' used. Aurora does not have the best reputation among many Coloradoans so of course this incident further enrages those who are looking to further judge against those they already hate. And then once the picture was posted of the shooter's appearance, people immediately changed course with terms such as 'crazy' 'lunatic'. Some of the comments have gone so far as saying his 'liberal' education from University of Colorado had to do with it. As if the Boulder branch was somehow the reason why he wanted to kill?

It's all very odd.

Nathan Dunlap has been on death row for 19 years and his final appeal was overturned this spring. My thoughts are this James Holmes will be the next one added to the list. But it will be interesting to see if they peg him as 'insane'.

187 Patricia Kayden  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 12:48:23pm

re: #2 Achilles Tang

I'm always surprised when even major news organizations like ABC don't seem to have proofreaders to check for wrongly used words, let alone spell checkers.

I agree and am surprised that ABC ran with such a controversial story without making sure it was true. Not surprising that so few people trust the media.

188 Patricia Kayden  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 1:03:36pm

re: #69 iossarian

Great comment. So, we are to believe that access to guns should be unrestricted because of a questionable reading of the 2nd Amendment. Too bad those who wrote the Constitution didn't include access to healthcare as a right.

189 efuseakay  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 1:20:59pm

I just have one politicized thing to say about this fucking mess. Colorado allows CCW. A lot of good that did.

190 efuseakay  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 1:22:41pm

re: #64 William Barnett-Lewis

No, but fix up a propane tank from a gas grill and he could have killed even more than he did. Just look at his booby trapped apartment.

Try getting a rigged-up-to-explode propane tank into a movie theater.

You can't reload, btw.

191 ErikJ76  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 1:44:07pm
Right wing blogs are already freaking out in full-on persecuted victim mode, because an early report from ABC News wrongly confused the shooter with another James Holmes in Colorado, who is a Tea Party member.

There's this from last night.
Faulty reporting on the identify of the suicide bomber in Bulgaria, and the right wings blog rose up attacking the left.

Over at Breibart they shouted:

ANTI-ISRAEL BOMBER IN BULGARIA WAS RELEASED FROM GITMO THANKS TO LEFT

Now, ABC News has apologized. Will Breitbart ever do that?


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