Aurora Shooter Tried to Lure People to Booby-Trapped Apartment

Planned an even bigger attack
Crime • Views: 38,526

New information about the suspected Aurora killer, James Holmes, suggests that he may have been inspired by Norwegian anti-Muslim terrorist Anders Behring Breivik. The scenario he tried to set up was very similar to Breivik’s — a massive bombing followed by a mass murder attack: Loud Music Used to Lure People to Booby-Trapped Apartment.

AURORA, Colo. — A neighbor of the mass shooting suspect thinks the man, James Holmes, may have tried to lure someone into his booby-trapped apartment to create a diversion during the shooting spree.

The neighbor, Chris Rodriguez, told 7NEWS, he and his girlfriend started hearing loud techno music coming from above them at midnight.

“Usually the complex is very quiet, nobody has parties, so that was the first time we actually had a party or a lot of noise at the complex,” said Rodriguez.

After about 15 minutes, Rodriguez’s girlfriend decided to knock on the door and ask them to turn the music down.

“She went upstairs to the apartment, and she knocked on the door pretty hard, she knocked two or three times and yelled into the door, ‘Hey, can you turn that music down, we are trying to sleep,’” said Rodriguez.

Rodriguez said that no one answered and his girlfriend didn’t even hear any footsteps. While she was listening at the door, she noticed that the door moved.

“The door moved a little bit, and the handle jiggled a little, and she was contemplating going into the apartment, but something told her don’t do it,” Rodriguez said.

Another similarity to Breivik: the killer had carefully planned this massacre to maximize the slaughter, and was equipped with body armor, two .40-caliber Glock handguns, a Remington shotgun, and an assault rifle with a high-capacity ammo clip.

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261 comments
1 palomino  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 1:46:43pm

Yeah, the idea that this guy just snapped after some bad exam scores is really simplistic. He clearly had been planning something, given the assortment of items that don't make much sense outside of staging an attack. He may have been crazy, but he thought logically enough to formulate a plan that would allow him to kill a much larger number of people.

2 dragonfire1981  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 1:49:08pm

Any you just know the gun advocates are going to scream bloody murder at anyone who suggests that maybe, MAYBE we need tougher gun laws.

I'm all for the 2nd amendment, but the gun laws in this country are laughably weak (thank you NRA).

Also, notice how the right wingers howling in rage at the whole ABC/Tea Party always INSTANTLY try to connect someone who commits a violent act with either the Democrat Party or the Occupy protests??

3 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 1:50:22pm

On Fox News, they were discussing banning costumes in movie theaters. Yeah, really.

It's the COSTUMES! These COSTUMES are the problem!

4 Tumulus11  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 1:50:49pm

. Unlike most spree killers, neither Breivik nor James Holmes committed suicide.

5 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 1:50:58pm

breaking news! conservative website free republic has identified the serial mass shooter as a homosexual!

[Link: www.freerepublic.com...]

To: Free ThinkerNY

My gaydar is going off.....

7 posted on Friday, July 20, 2012 10:58:02 AM by clintonh8r (Happy to be represented by Lt. Col. Allen West)

To: Free ThinkerNY
My gaydar just went off. Queer!
9 posted on Friday, July 20, 2012 10:58:21 AM by TheThirdRuffian (I will never vote for Romney. Ever.)

Gaydar going off

Looks like exhibit A in a Penn State pedophile trial.
23 posted on Friday, July 20, 2012 11:01:08 AM by DCBryan1 (I'll take over the Mormon over the Moron any day!)

To: Free ThinkerNY

Looks like Plouffe. Definitely a gay OWS type.

44 posted on Friday, July 20, 2012 11:08:08 AM by nhwingut (Sarah Palin 12... No One Else)

To: clintonh8r

“My gaydar is going off.....”

ha ha ha.

Yep, mine too.

You DO KNOW that IF he is heterosexually challenged, the media will NEVER utter a peep about that.

he’s got them “crazy eyes” almost like the runaway bride.

60 posted on Friday, July 20, 2012 11:15:07 AM by a real Sheila (Hypocrisy, thy name is Leftist.)

6 Blizard  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 1:51:51pm

re: #2 dragonfire1981

Any you just know the gun advocates are going to scream bloody murder at anyone who suggests that maybe, MAYBE we need tougher gun laws.

I'm all for the 2nd amendment, but the gun laws in this country are laughably weak (thank you NRA).

Also, notice how the right wingers howling in rage at the whole ABC/Tea Party always INSTANTLY try to connect someone who commits a violent act with either the Democrat Party or the Occupy protests??

I'm a gun-toting hippy, so I have problems with both sides of the argument. This is all just too much. I'm headed up to Vail and Aspen for the weekend for work and a little fresh air. Getting out of Denver.

Laterz.

7 Bulworth  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 1:51:57pm

re: #5 SpaceJesus

A gay secularist anti-American radical islamic

8 dragonfire1981  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 1:52:26pm

Also, to anyone who is attempting to politicize this tragedy or use it to further a personal or party agenda:

Fuck you people.

This was a deranged man who killed a bunch of human beings at a movie theater and that's all there is to it. It had nothing to do with the Tea Party, Occupy Movement, Barack Obama, Mitt Romney, Fox News, etc.

It was a just a senseless massacre. Instead of trying to take advantage of the media storm for your political cause, how about just some dignified remembrance for the victims and prayers for those left behind.

9 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 1:52:54pm

Hmmm.

University spokeswoman Jacque Montgomery confirms Holmes was a graduate student at the school of medicine until last month. On May 8, he was scheduled to present a paper on MicroRNA biomarkers for a class on psychiatric and neurological disorders.

10 Kragar  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 1:52:58pm

re: #3 Charles Johnson

On Fox News, they were discussing banning costumes in movie theaters. Yeah, really.

It's the COSTUMES! These COSTUMES are the problem!

Well, if costumes are the problem, the tea party is completely fucked.

11 Tumulus11  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 1:53:29pm
'The neighbor, Chris Rodriguez, told 7NEWS, he and his girlfriend started hearing loud techno music coming from above them at midnight.'

. It's that darned techno music. /

12 Randall Gross  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 1:53:55pm

He might be deranged, he might be lone, but he's a terrorist by his tactics. Remember: I consider all terrorists to be insane.

13 dragonfire1981  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 1:54:17pm

re: #4 Tumulus11

. Unlike most spree killers, neither Breivik nor James Holmes committed suicide.

This is an interesting point. Klebold and Harris killed themselves, so did the VA Tech shooter.

The fact he didn't tells me he probably wants to live to see some of the aftermath of his actions. He may make a statement or release some kind of manifesto too.

I think what this guy wanted most was attention.

14 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 1:54:59pm

re: #7 Bulworth

my gaydar is a million times better than freeps, and mine goes off like an air raid siren every time i read homophobic comments over there

15 Amory Blaine  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 1:55:43pm

re: #3 Charles Johnson

On Fox News, they were discussing banning costumes in movie theaters. Yeah, really.

It's the COSTUMES! These COSTUMES are the problem!

FOX, home of the hoodie rationalization.

16 dragonfire1981  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 1:56:59pm

Also can you imagine the right wing shitstorm that would be happening right now if the shooter had been black?

17 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 1:57:51pm

re: #7 Bulworth

Of course Muslim. Freep is on top of that one as well.

To: Free ThinkerNY

Obvious extreme facial surgery to cover up his muslim traits.

22 posted on Friday, July 20, 2012 1:00:27 PM by stuartcr ("When silence speaks, it speaks only to those that have already decided what they want to hear.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

18 Kragar  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 1:59:19pm

re: #17 SpaceJesus

Of course Muslim. Freep is on top of that one as well.

Seriously? WTF?

19 Amory Blaine  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 1:59:55pm

I think the opportunists on the right will use their "victimized card" to deflect pressure off of Romney. Yeah I'm that cynical.

20 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 1:59:59pm

MOOSLIM TRAITS YALL

21 sagehen  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:00:07pm

re: #16 dragonfire1981

Also can you imagine the right wing shitstorm that would be happening right now if the shooter had been black?

"Black people aren't crazy. Black people do stupid things. You see a black guy doing the perp walk, he stole some old lady's welfare check, or shoplifted socks. But when you find a body with the toes cut off and the eyes was used for click-clacks... a white guy did that."
--Chris Rock

22 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:00:51pm

re: #14 SpaceJesus

Yep.
Closets are dark and cramped, freepers, you would all be much happier in the sunlight.

23 dragonfire1981  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:01:44pm

re: #21 sagehen

"Black people aren't crazy. Black people do stupid things. You see a black guy doing the perp walk, he stole some old lady's welfare check, or shoplifted socks. But when you find a body with the toes cut off and the eyes was used for click-clacks... a white guy did that."
--Chris Rock

I think that all bullets should cost $5000, because if every bullet cost $5000 there would be no more innocent bystanders. If bullets were $5000 and you saw somebody get shot you'd be like: "well he must've done SOMETHING."

24 kirkspencer  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:02:14pm

My favorite freeper meme on this is the one that it's a conspiracy by Obama and the democrats to get the UN gun ban treaty ratified.

25 Kragar  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:03:18pm

re: #20 SpaceJesus

MOOSLIM TRAITS YALL

Never in recorded history has a white man of undisclosed sexuality or religion ever killed anyone.

26 kirkspencer  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:03:21pm

re: #23 dragonfire1981

I think that all bullets should cost $5000, because if every bullet cost $5000 there would be no more innocent bystanders. If bullets were $5000 and you saw somebody get shot you'd be like: "well he must've done SOMETHING."

Seriously would not work. At $5,000 per bullet black market production and movement would be extremely sustainable.

27 erik_t  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:03:33pm

re: #8 dragonfire1981

This was a deranged man who killed a bunch of human beings at a movie theater and that's all there is to it. It had nothing to do with the Tea Party, Occupy Movement, Barack Obama, Mitt Romney, Fox News, etc.

There's a pretty wide gulf between 'let's not shamelessly exploit this crime for political purposes' and 'there's no point in ever trying to identify any sort of motivation behind this crime'.

28 Bulworth  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:03:37pm
Obvious extreme facial surgery to cover up his muslim traits.

Totally. How come our lamestream media isn't all over that? Cuz they're bought and paid for by George Soros! //

29 Kragar  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:03:40pm

re: #24 kirkspencer

My favorite freeper meme on this is the one that it's a conspiracy by Obama and the democrats to get the UN gun ban treaty ratified.

I question the timing...

30 dragonfire1981  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:03:57pm

re: #24 kirkspencer

My favorite freeper meme on this is the one that it's a conspiracy by Obama and the democrats to get the UN gun ban treaty ratified.

Wow...just wow.

Is this entire country losing it?

31 Targetpractice  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:04:34pm

re: #24 kirkspencer

My favorite freeper meme on this is the one that it's a conspiracy by Obama and the democrats to get the UN gun ban treaty ratified.

I wish I could say I'm surprised...because I'm not.

32 dragonfire1981  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:04:54pm

re: #27 erik_t

There's a pretty wide gulf between 'let's not shamelessly exploit this crime for political purposes' and 'there's no point in ever trying to identify any sort of motivation behind this crime'.

What I meant was, the odds are the motive was political seem to be low, so trying to twist facts and data to suggest that it was is pretty dumb.

33 erik_t  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:05:55pm

re: #32 dragonfire1981

What I meant was, the odds are the motive was political seem to be low, so trying to twist facts and data to suggest that it was is pretty dumb.

I see no reason to say that the odds of political motivation are low.

34 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:05:57pm

re: #25 Kragar

Look at those MOOSLIM traits. Things like Hair, a face, a smile, eyeballs, sideburns.

35 Velvet Elvis  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:08:04pm

What percentage of the population supports the right to own an assault weapon with a drum magazine that allows an individual to shoot 70 people in five minutes? It can't be that large. I'm a handgun owner and support gun rights but what percentage of the population has us by the balls exactly so that we can't pass even the most common sense gun control laws?

36 abolitionist  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:08:28pm

re: #9 goddamnedfrank

Hmmm.

Perhaps he included himself as a test subject in his research? Found an outlier in the control group perhaps?

37 Major Tom  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:08:38pm

re: #3 Charles Johnson

On Fox News, they were discussing banning costumes in movie theaters. Yeah, really.

It's the COSTUMES! These COSTUMES are the problem!

On the local Clear Channel AM station this morning, I heard a former FBI profiler explaining possible motivations, and behaviors of the shooter... At one point she said something to the effect of, "And, I know we don't like to talk about it, but this can all be traced back to one issue..." In my mind, and probably most sane Americans, the next line was going to be Gun Control, but she then said something I'll never forget: "Violence in Video Games." I shit you not.

38 Kragar  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:08:49pm

re: #34 SpaceJesus

Look at those MOOSLIM traits. Things like Hair, a face, a smile, eyeballs, sideburns.

I mean, really, you can tell just by looking at him;

Image: 628x471.jpg

39 Velvet Elvis  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:09:08pm

re: #33 erik_t

I see no reason to say that the odds of political motivation are low.

Dude was a geek. I'm working under the assumption that he was trying to be a comic book villain.

40 Major Tom  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:09:26pm

re: #31 Targetpractice

I wish I could say I'm surprised...because I'm not.

I have seen this pretty consistently myself.

41 Mattand  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:09:36pm

re: #35 Velvet Elvis

What percentage of the population supports the right to own an assault weapon with a drum magazine that allows an individual to shoot 70 people in five minutes? It can't be that large. I'm a handgun owner and support gun rights but what percentage of the population has us by the balls exactly so that we can't pass even the most common sense gun control laws?

Thank you for being a sane gun owner.

42 Mattand  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:10:11pm

re: #37 Major Tom

On the local Clear Channel AM station this morning, I heard a former FBI profiler explaining possible motivations, and behaviors of the shooter... At one point she said something to the effect of, "And, I know we don't like to talk about it, but this can all be traced back to one issue..." In my mind, and probably most sane Americans, the next line was going to be Gun Control, but she then said something I'll never forget: "Violence in Video Games." I shit you not.

When in doubt, go for the easiest scapegoat.

43 Bulworth  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:10:38pm
On the local Clear Channel AM station this morning,

Say no more.

44 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:10:40pm

re: #2 dragonfire1981

There are epic holes in certain laws and at the prosecutorial level sometimes.
We should have a convenient link to Colorado gun laws in a simple format. Maybe this will do? Or Wiki? The wiki entry is thin on details.

Let's look at how far afield this guy was already in the legal sense. No point advocating passing laws that might already be there.

45 dragonfire1981  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:10:43pm

re: #33 erik_t

I see no reason to say that the odds of political motivation are low.

And why not?

Looking at these circumstances where do you see ANYTHING to suggest any political motivation. He didn't select particular targets, he's not a member of any political group or party, he attacked a movie theater (I mean come on, if it was politically motivated it would make more sense to attack at a government office or State Capitol. Heck even a shooting spree at a bank would lend more credence to possible political motivation.

I just don't see it.

46 Lidane  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:14:28pm

Speaking of Aurora, you'd think that an online company would have some common sense before opening their pie hole:

CelebBoutique Misguided Aurora Tweet Sparks Twitter Outrage

47 Mocking Jay  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:15:39pm

Just got back from seeing it. They searched my almost 60 year-old mom's purse. If this is going to a recurring theme then I'm going to start going to the movies with a backpack full of dildos and butt plugs for them to sift through.

48 Major Tom  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:17:01pm

re: #45 dragonfire1981

And why not?

Looking at these circumstances where do you see ANYTHING to suggest any political motivation. He didn't select particular targets, he's not a member of any political group or party, he attacked a movie theater (I mean come on, if it was politically motivated it would make more sense to attack at a government office or State Capitol. Heck even a shooting spree at a bank would lend more credence to possible political motivation.

I just don't see it.

I think this is tied to the 'Is the act rational at all?' question. It was planned therefore it was rational doesn't hold up for me. Rational doesn't equal sane. ...I mean think of all the Right Wing Extremist Militia guys that think by shooting poorly at cop cars they are going to spark a civil war/revolution... Is a political motivation credible for those actions?

49 Lidane  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:18:15pm

re: #37 Major Tom

Violent video games had fuck all to do with this. The guy was clearly unbalanced and had planned to go out in a blaze of glory for whatever reason, first by killing people in a crowded movie theater and then by having people enter his booby trapped apartment.

Also, people who cry about violent video games and violence in the media as a factor every time shit like this happens need to learn the fucking difference between correlation and causation. WTF.

/rant

50 dragonfire1981  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:18:42pm

re: #48 Major Tom

I think this is tied to the 'Is the act rational at all?' question. It was planned therefore it was rational doesn't hold up for me. Rational doesn't equal sane. ...I mean think of all the Right Wing Extremist Militia guys that think by shooting poorly at cop cars they are going to spark a civil war/revolution... Is a political motivation credible for those actions?

Something can be completely IRRATIONAL but not political. I don't think at all it was rational because it was planned. I see nothing rational about this attack whatsoever.

51 dragonfire1981  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:20:07pm

re: #49 Lidane

Violent video games had fuck all to do with this. The guy was clearly unbalanced and had planned to go out in a blaze of glory for whatever reason, first by killing people in a crowded movie theater and then by having people enter his booby trapped apartment.

Also, people who cry about violent video games and violence in the media as a factor every time shit like this happens need to learn the fucking difference between correlation and causation. WTF.

/rant

It's funny how people like that woman fail to realize there are MILLIONS of people who play VIOLENT video games every day and lead completely normal lives in completely normal mental states.

52 efuseakay  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:20:16pm

re: #5 SpaceJesus

breaking news! conservative website free republic has identified the serial mass shooter as a homosexual!

[Link: www.freerepublic.com...]

Ironically... their oft-used "Gods, Guns & Country!" graphic is posted right below the OP in that thread...

53 Major Tom  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:20:48pm

re: #51 dragonfire1981

It's funny how people like that woman fail to realize there are MILLIONS of people who play VIOLENT video games every day and lead completely normal lives in completely normal mental states.

isn't that the argument of gun owners?

54 Kragar  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:21:02pm

As a non-Christian, progressive, video game playing, sci-fi lover who believes in properly licensed access to firearms, I would like to tell all the conservative pundits chiming in they can fuck right off.

55 Targetpractice  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:21:23pm

re: #54 Kragar

As a non-Christian, progressive, video game playing, sci-fi lover who believes in properly licensed access to firearms, I would like to tell all the conservative pundits chiming in they can fuck right off.

Fuckin' A!

56 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:21:24pm

re: #45 dragonfire1981

Looking at these circumstances where do you see ANYTHING to suggest any political motivation. He didn't select particular targets, he's not a member of any political group or party, he attacked a movie theater (I mean come on, if it was politically motivated it would make more sense to attack at a government office or State Capitol.

I'd agree with you if Limbaugh hadn't been casting the Batman movie and the character Bane as some sort of anti Romney conspiracy. Still not sure what the odds of a political motivation are but I'm not ruling anything out at this point, especially the suggestibility of nutjob spree killer.

57 Lidane  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:21:50pm

re: #51 dragonfire1981

It's funny how people like that woman fail to realize there are MILLIONS of people who play VIOLENT video games every day and lead completely normal lives in completely normal mental states.

Seriously. Millions of people are playing games like Call of Duty and Battlefield and Team Fortress 2 every goddamn day and they don't all go out and start mowing people down in movie theaters.

Whatever this guy's motives were, video games had nothing to do with it.

58 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:21:53pm

The very same weapons used in the massacre aren't allowed in a certain New England state because of a certain presidential candidate.


59 Major Tom  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:22:24pm

re: #57 Lidane

+1 tf2

60 Lidane  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:23:18pm

re: #53 Major Tom

isn't that the argument of gun owners?

Sure. Because not every gun owner is going to go mental and start killing people.

It's the ones that DO go mental and kill people that are the problem. We need to figure out how to maintain gun rights and also keep guns away from the crazy fuckers.

61 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:23:43pm

I actually agree with Romney on something.


Oh wait.

62 Velvet Elvis  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:23:56pm

re: #51 dragonfire1981

It's funny how people like that woman fail to realize there are MILLIONS of people who play VIOLENT video games every day and lead completely normal lives in completely normal mental states.

I've probably played at least 50 hours of Civ V since I got the God & Kings expansion during the Steam sale. I haven't dropped nukes on anybody IRL once.

63 Amory Blaine  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:24:04pm

The mom had some idea something was amiss with her son.

"You have the right person," she said, apparently speaking on gut instinct. "I need to call the police... I need to fly out to Colorado."

64 Targetpractice  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:24:53pm

Violent video games are this generation's "satanic rock music." The one-stop answer for all those moral guardians who think that they can wipe out the evils of the world by just banning a product from store shelves (I'm lookin' at you, Jack Thompson).

65 Velvet Elvis  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:25:18pm

re: #56 goddamnedfrank

I'd agree with you if Limbaugh hadn't been casting the Batman movie and the character Bane as some sort of anti Romney conspiracy. Still not sure what the odds of a political motivation are but I'm not ruling anything out at this point, especially the suggestibility of nutjob spree killer.

This guy is about as far outside of the Limbaugh demographic as you can get, plus he's obviously been planning it a lot longer than Limbaugh's been bitching about the movie.

66 Major Tom  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:25:31pm

re: #62 Velvet Elvis

re: #51 dragonfire1981

I've probably played at least 50 hours of Civ V since I got the God & Kings expansion during the Steam sale. I haven't dropped nukes on anybody IRL once.

because as soon as you get nukes the AIs get SDI! :)

67 Amory Blaine  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:25:52pm

re: #64 Targetpractice

Yep, D&D was a big scapegoat.

68 Major Tom  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:26:28pm

re: #60 Lidane

Sure. Because not every gun owner is going to go mental and start killing people.

It's the ones that DO go mental and kill people that are the problem. We need to figure out how to maintain gun rights and also keep guns away from the crazy fuckers.

That's the trick.

69 Kragar  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:26:49pm

In the wake of Bachmann's latest rambling incoherency, let us not forget her long history of utter and complete idiocy.

Death Panels
Re-Education Camps
Concentration Camps
Obama Leading Us to a One-World Currency
Un-American Members of Congress
The Soviet Union Never Fell
HPV Vaccine Causes Mental Retardation
Obama Is Intentionally Making Americans Poor

70 researchok  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:26:58pm

I have one question: Is it common practice to take young kids to midnight movies?

And if it is, is the practice regional or seen across the country?

I don't recall seeing that here on the east coast.

71 Mattand  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:27:32pm

re: #51 dragonfire1981

It's funny how people like that woman fail to realize there are MILLIONS of people who play VIOLENT video games every day and lead completely normal lives in completely normal mental states.

Chuck Jones referenced this in autobiography, regarding the "corrupting" effects of cartoons. He pointed that if cartoons were that harmful, everyone in the US under the age of 50, at the time of writing (late 80's), would be homicidal maniacs.

The more things change, blah, blah, blah...

72 Major Tom  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:27:33pm

re: #70 researchok

right? a three month old? -at the movies? at midnight? Get a sitter. just sayin.

73 Kragar  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:27:48pm

re: #61 SpaceJesus

I actually agree with Romney on something.

Oh wait.

See, he was bound to say something sooner or later.

74 Velvet Elvis  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:28:03pm

re: #70 researchok

I have one question: Is it common practice to take young kids to midnight movies?

And if it is, is the practice regional or seen across the country?

I don't recall seeing that here on the east coast.

R rated midnight movies if I'm not mistaken.

75 Randall Gross  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:28:22pm

Hrmm speaking of violent video games, something for gamers to consider before you toss that CRT TV out....

[Link: www.edge-online.com...]

76 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:28:46pm

re: #63 Amory Blaine

The mom had some idea something was amiss with her son.

Yeah, if her gut instinct is that it was her kid who shot up a theater full of people then she clearly should have sought an involuntary commitment.

That's the only way we're going to cut down on gun violence in this country, if we individually start taking mental health more seriously. If we pay attention to the people close to us and act on the warning signs instead of ignoring them.

77 Randall Gross  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:29:18pm

re: #69 Kragar

In the wake of Bachmann's latest rambling incoherency, let us not forget her long history of utter and complete idiocy.

Death Panels
Re-Education Camps
Concentration Camps
Obama Leading Us to a One-World Currency
Un-American Members of Congress
The Soviet Union Never Fell
HPV Vaccine Causes Mental Retardation
Obama Is Intentionally Making Americans Poor

Death panels was Sara (forgotten) Palin. Michelle just amplified that.

78 researchok  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:29:57pm

re: #72 Major Tom

re: #74 Velvet Elvis

Obviously, I'm not blaming the parents for the tragedy but it did strike me as odd very young kids would be taken to midnight movies.

79 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:30:15pm
and an assault rifle with a high-capacity ammo clip.

There is actually no such thing as an assault rifle, there are only bolt-action, lever-action, semi-automatic, and fully-automatic rifles. Anyone using the term "assault rifle" is sneered at and automatically dismissed by most everyone on the Right and also by many of those on the left who are somewhat knowledgeable about firearms as either being simply a noob or even worse as a gun control advocate with an agenda who is a noob.

During the ill-fated and short lived "assault rifle ban" in this country the arbitrary line between an "assault rifle" and other similar weapons became extremely obvious. No, you could not buy an AK-47, but yes you could by an SKS with exactly identical mechanical workings. The only difference being that the stock and foregrip of a AK-47 made it "look" more like a military weapon while an SKS "looked" more like a hunting rifle.

Anyone who wants to be taken seriously should avoid using the arbitrary and negatively loaded "assault rifle" moniker in their argument.

(BTW: There are finally a few weapons available, specifically the "bullpup" style short barreled and short stocked semi/burst/fully automatic rifles designed specifically for close quarters urban combat that should actually be called assault rifles, but aren't.) :(

80 researchok  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:31:13pm

re: #75 Randall Gross

Hrmm speaking of violent video games, something for gamers to consider before you toss that CRT TV out...

[Link: www.edge-online.com...]

You are a confirmed geek.
///

Talk about esoterica!

81 steve_davis  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:31:18pm

re: #3 Charles Johnson

On Fox News, they were discussing banning costumes in movie theaters. Yeah, really.

It's the COSTUMES! These COSTUMES are the problem!

Remember, guns don't kill people; costumes kill people. No, really. Remember that episode of Spider Man where the Venom costume tries to do him in.

82 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:31:19pm

re: #65 Velvet Elvis

This guy is about as far outside of the Limbaugh demographic as you can get, plus he's obviously been planning it a lot longer than Limbaugh's been bitching about the movie.

Meaning nothing. Rush has plenty of angry loner young men listening to him, and planning for violence in no way precludes suggestibility of target.

83 Kragar  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:31:58pm

re: #77 Randall Gross

Death panels was Sara (forgotten) Palin. Michelle just amplified that.

She didn't come up with the MB infiltration either, she just parroted what she was told.

84 Sophia77  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:32:25pm

I'm not sure that violent video games, films etc are blameless. They make violence seem unreal, abstract.

85 Targetpractice  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:32:42pm

re: #79 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You

Uhm, great rant and all...except you should stop a sec and actually look up the meaning of terms. The one you're looking for is "assault weapon." The term "assault rifle" is a recognized one that is easy to define: Any automatic rifle that uses an intermediate cartridge and detachable magazine.

86 Kragar  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:33:14pm

re: #84 Sophia77

I'm not sure that violent video games, films etc are blameless. They make violence seem unreal, abstract.

Just like poetry and heroic epics.

87 Randall Gross  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:34:40pm

re: #79 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You

Sorry but your whole argument has been superseded by the last ten years of video game & Hollywood parlance. Your objection is hereby over ruled, whereas it was valid just ten years ago.

88 Lidane  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:34:42pm

re: #84 Sophia77

I'm not sure that violent video games, films etc are blameless. They make violence seem unreal, abstract.

Odd. Most of the criticism of violent video games is that they're too realistic.

89 Velvet Elvis  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:34:57pm

re: #76 goddamnedfrank

Yeah, if her gut instinct is that it was her kid who shot up a theater full of people then she clearly should have sought an involuntary commitment.

That's the only way we're going to cut down on gun violence in this country, if we individually start taking mental health more seriously. If we pay attention to the people close to us and act on the warning signs instead of ignoring them.

Let's be real.

I'm bipolar. I really want treatment and have to fight to get it. I pay a fairly large fraction of my annual income for the medications required to keep me sane and a productive member of society. I'm on some rx assistance programs though the drug companies that get me some meds for free. Without these it would easily be $10k a year.

If it's this hard for me to get treatment, what chance does somebody who refuses it have?

We have to have something like single payer health care in place before we can even start having this discussion.

90 Mattand  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:35:12pm

re: #84 Sophia77

I'm not sure that violent video games, films etc are blameless. They make violence seem unreal, abstract.

IIRC, there's yet to be a study that proves a link. Particularly video games.

91 A Mom Anon  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:37:27pm

re: #78 researchok

Well,it is summer and the kidlets aren't in school,so keeping them up late one night isn't a big deal. Babysitters aren't cheap,and I don't think parents(especially moms,who are more likely to be the primary caretaker)should have to stay home and never go anywhere because the kids might be up late or babysitters or the money for them are in short supply. Infants can often sleep through anything,especially if they are being held and are comfy. Young kids can be occupied with a handheld game or tablet computer with earphones. Would I do it? Nope. But that's also not my business,let's not pass judgement on parents over this one.

92 Amory Blaine  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:37:28pm

Someone on an intelligence committee spouting off lies that the Muslim Brotherhood is infiltrating the highest offices of the US is a danger to many people. She should be removed immediately. Hopefully she's just a moron because if she is making accusations out of malice for political gains it would be grounds for prosecution I would hope.

93 SmithCommaJohn  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:37:40pm

re: #34 SpaceJesus

Look at those MOOSLIM traits. Things like Hair, a face, a smile, eyeballs, sideburns.

Wearing clothes, eating food, drinking water, maintaining a constant body temperature of roughly 97-99 degrees, breathing oxygen, being carbon-based!

Those are ALL Muslim traits, and how much do you want to bet that the shooter exhibits at least three of them?

94 Kragar  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:38:14pm

Watch me summon Killgore:

Operation Save America spokesman: suspect is "an Occupy Wall Street guy" who is "the spawn of the ideology of the Democratic Party:"

James Holmes, an Occupy Wall Street guy, murdered 14 and wounded 50+ at a midnight showing of the Batman movie that portrayed OWS'ers in a bad light. Perhaps there is a motive here. Twenty four years old and filled with the culture of death! When we sow bloodshed in the womb we will reap it in the streets. It is a law. It is God's Law. It is a law as certain as the physical law of gravity. It is a "spiritual gravity" that applies to all people at all places at all times. Whether or not you believe it, it applies. King Jesus is the only answer. The whole National Guard couldn't make James do what is right. He has become his own law, showing contempt for authority and doing what is right in his own eyes. He is the product of the Culture of Death that the DNC has embraced.

There is not a police force big enough to make a young man do what is right. The only answer - there is a King whose name is Jesus. When He occupies the heart of a young man, that young man will lay down his life that others may live.

This is what has happened to our country when we remove God from the equation. We have stolen the fear of God from our children, Violence always fills the void. This is the spawn of the ideology of the Democratic Party and now we look at each other in awkward amazement, wondering "what in the world just happened?" The answer is we have stolen God from the hearts of our children.

95 Major Tom  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:38:34pm

This reminds me of the Norway thing, but really, the way he was armored, it reminds me of the 1997 north hollywood shootout.

96 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:39:02pm

re: #91 A Mom Anon

Yes, but I wouldn't be there after midnight with small kids.

Then again, I wouldn't be there after midnight by myself, either.

97 researchok  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:39:15pm

re: #91 A Mom Anon

As noted, I was not passing judgement, I was just asking about a what appears to be a cultural phenomena.

I had not seen or even heard of kids being taken to midnight shows.

98 Targetpractice  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:39:15pm

re: #94 Kragar

Watch me summon Killgore:

Operation Save America spokesman: suspect is "an Occupy Wall Street guy" who is "the spawn of the ideology of the Democratic Party:"

Kragar casts Summon Killgore.

It is ineffective.

//

99 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:39:17pm

Violent video games don't make people crazy, but crazy people probably shouldn't play violent video games, and be able to purchase assault rifles.

Guns don't kill people. Psychotic people with guns do.

100 Kragar  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:39:58pm

re: #98 Targetpractice

Kragar casts Summon Killgore.

It is ineffective.

//

Give it some time.

101 Mattand  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:40:39pm

re: #98 Targetpractice

Kragar casts Summon Killgore.

It is ineffective.

//

The proper incantation is "OWS isn't the same as the Tea Party", repeated 3 times.

102 Targetpractice  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:40:44pm

re: #100 Kragar

Give it some time.

Oh, it's a time delay spell. *writes note*

103 Major Tom  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:41:10pm

re: #91 A Mom Anon

Well,it is summer and the kidlets aren't in school,so keeping them up late one night isn't a big deal. Babysitters aren't cheap,and I don't think parents(especially moms,who are more likely to be the primary caretaker)should have to stay home and never go anywhere because the kids might be up late or babysitters or the money for them are in short supply. Infants can often sleep through anything,especially if they are being held and are comfy. Young kids can be occupied with a handheld game or tablet computer with earphones. Would I do it? Nope. But that's also not my business,let's not pass judgement on parents over this one.

Right on. I have to admit, Its easy to be judgmental when I have no children of my own. ;)

104 erik_t  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:41:42pm

re: #98 Targetpractice

Kragar casts Summon Killgore.

It is ineffective.

//

I think you have to post it three times fast, or something.

105 Amory Blaine  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:41:54pm

IDK. Young people have young kids. Young people, many of them anyways, are broke. Maybe they don't have a sitter or they were getting out of a hot apartment into some air conditioning. Some possiblilities.

106 Kragar  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:42:24pm

HE'S VIEWING THE THREAD! IT WORKED!

107 Amory Blaine  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:42:37pm

re: #98 Targetpractice

You have to roll the 2d4.

108 A Mom Anon  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:43:37pm

re: #96 Mostly sane, most of the time.

I know,by midnight I was often too exhausted to be anything but snoozing. But this was a special occasion and we don't know that the parents do this all the time. I'm sure these parents are beating themselves up and are probably catching shit from some people they know too.

I remember having cabin fever big time alot when my son was little. I was the only one of my friends with a small child,had no family back up and couldn't afford a sitter very often. I can relate to wanting to do something where other adults around,just for my general sanity.

109 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:43:57pm

re: #89 Velvet Elvis

Let's be real.

I'm bipolar. I really want treatment and have to fight to get it. I pay a fairly large fraction of my annual income for the medications required to keep me sane and a productive member of society. I'm on some rx assistance programs though the drug companies that get me some meds for free. Without these it would easily be $10k a year.

If it's this hard for me to get treatment, what chance does somebody who refuses it have?

We have to have something like single payer health care in place before we can even start having this discussion.

I'm all for single payer. However the same societal drives towards self centeredness and deliberate, obtuse disregard for the warning signs displayed by others is the reason we don't have it. We had a halfway decent mental health system in this country before Reagan dismantled it, and there was no single payer then. So while I'd like to see us implement single payer there's no real reason it has to be a prerequisite for a rational national mental healthcare policy.

110 Eventual Carrion  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:45:01pm

re: #53 Major Tom

isn't that the argument of gun owners?

Yep, and that is why we need better checks to somehow be pretty sure that the firearm is not going to a unstable individual.

111 RadicalModerate  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:45:15pm

re: #94 Kragar

Watch me summon Killgore:

Operation Save America spokesman: suspect is "an Occupy Wall Street guy" who is "the spawn of the ideology of the Democratic Party:"

Article by Flip Benham.

The guy who gave ideological cover to domestic terrorists Eric Rudolph and Paul Hill.

112 freetoken  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:46:07pm

re: #34 SpaceJesus

Look at those MOOSLIM traits. Things like Hair, a face, a smile, eyeballs, sideburns.

THIS TIME, IT IS U.S. PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA WHO IS THE MUSLIM TERRORIST, OBVIOUSLY

A couple months ago Michigan Republicans elevated the unsexable state Rep. Dave Agema to the position of Republican National Committeeman.

Among other things, Agema once tried to cut a program that helps orphans buy clothes. He also skipped a budget vote to go snow sheep hunting in Russia. Yes, you read that correctly, he went to Russia to hunt sheep.

But Agema is mainly known for hating Muslims. He once said Dearborn is infested with terrorist “sleeper cells” and another time apparently agreed to appear at a Terry Jones rally before backing out at the last minute. Thursday, Agema took his bigotry to 11 and told the subscription-only Gongwer News Service that President Obama, like most terrorists also, is a Muslim.

Asked whether being a Muslim is a bad thing, Mr. Agema said anyone can worship any religion he or she wants, but his issue is that Mr. Obama is claiming he is both Christian and a Muslim.

“Which is it? He can’t be both,” he said. “It’s disingenuous to say one time you’re a Christian and then say another time you’re a Muslim.”

[...]

113 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:46:25pm

Wolf Blitzer saying that the perp dyed his hair red and green and thought he was literally the Joker.

115 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:47:03pm

re: #112 freetoken

THIS TIME, IT IS U.S. PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA WHO IS THE MUSLIM TERRORIST, OBVIOUSLY

[...]

I know this guy is only a state representative but it still boggles my mind that idiots like this get elected.

116 researchok  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:47:49pm

re: #114 Kragar

GE v2.0

117 Major Tom  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:47:53pm

re: #110 RayFerd

Yep, and that is why we need better checks to somehow be pretty sure that the firearm is not going to a unstable individual.

That's the only vague answer anyone has. I want to know why the man's mother wasn't shocked. Was it past behavior? Did he leave a v/m or text message? Does she bare some responsibility?

118 Targetpractice  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:47:59pm

re: #114 Kragar

Corning pays no taxes for 4 years, complains taxes are too high

The rent, on the other hand, is too damn high.

/

119 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:48:00pm

re: #114 Kragar

Corning pays no taxes for 4 years, complains taxes are too high

Brought to you by the same people who cry TEA: Taxed Enough Already whilst they willfully ignore the fat that taxes are at a 40 year low.

120 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:49:02pm

re: #113 SpaceJesus

Wolf Blitzer saying that the perp dyed his hair red and green and thought he was literally the Joker.

This is where I point out that Wolf Blitzer thinks of himself as literally a journalist.

121 freetoken  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:51:16pm

Sheldon Adelson gave half of June donations to pro-Romney super PAC

Restore Our Future, a super PAC supporting Mitt Romney's campaign for president, raised about $20 million in June, more than three times the amount pulled in by the main super PAC behind President Barack Obama's re-election bid.

Just under half of the donations came from Las Vegas casino magnate Sheldon Adelson and his wife, who each donated $5 million apiece to the effort.

The group also received gifts of $1 million or more from a handful of sources, including Boston-based private equity leader John W. Childs, Texas-based real estate investor Harlan Crow and businessman Bill Koch. Foster Friess, who supported former Pennsylvania Sen. Rick Santorum's Republican primary bid, gave $200,000.

[...]

122 Targetpractice  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:53:28pm

re: #121 freetoken

Sheldon Adelson gave half of June donations to pro-Romney super PAC

So this is what it looks like when an election is bought.

And to think, if such laws were around when Nixon was in office, he wouldn't have had to go through all the trouble to launder money to pay off his henchmen.

123 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:53:28pm

re: #85 Targetpractice

Uhm, great rant and all...except you should stop a sec and actually look up the meaning of terms. The one you're looking for is "assault weapon." The term "assault rifle" is a recognized one that is easy to define: Any automatic rifle that uses an intermediate cartridge and detachable magazine.

So the weapon used was not then in fact an "assault rifle" was it? (since it was not fully automatic). ;)

Uhh, about your definition? Then what would be the difference between an "assault rifle" and a "sub-machinegun" wouldn't the definition for both be identical? (fully automatic, detachable magazine, intermediate cartridge)

124 Mattand  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:54:19pm

re: #113 SpaceJesus

Wolf Blitzer saying that the perp dyed his hair red and green and thought he was literally the Joker.

I know that was reported in the NYT today, but the source was someone on the NYPD who supposedly knew someone in CO. You know, totally solid.

Sometimes, I wish the ghost of Cronkite would arise from the dead and drop a boom mike on Blitzer's skull. Even by Fox News standards, he's a dipshit.

125 erik_t  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:54:46pm

re: #116 researchok

GE v2.0

At least GE fucking makes things. Beats some of the dogshit on Wall Street, exchanging pieces of paper and pretending that it matters OOPS GUYS I DROPPED THE PAPER, PLZ TO BAILOUT

126 erik_t  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:55:30pm

re: #123 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You

So the weapon used was not then in fact an "assault rifle" was it? (since it was not fully automatic). ;)

Uhh, about your definition? Then what would be the difference between an "assault rifle" and a "sub-machinegun" wouldn't the definition for both be identical? (fully automatic, detachable magazine, intermediate cartridge)

If this is a reference to a submachine gun that does not fire a pistol cartridge, or a description of a pistol cartridge as 'intermediate', then it's the first one I've ever sene.

127 HappyWarrior  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:55:59pm
128 Targetpractice  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:56:10pm

re: #123 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You

So the weapon used was not then in fact an "assault rifle" was it? (since it was not fully automatic). ;)

Correct, but it would have qualified under the old "Assault Weapons Ban," as ThinkProgress noted today. Same with the drum magazine he was using.

Uhh, about your definition? Then what would be the difference between an "assault rifle" and a "sub-machinegun" wouldn't the definition for both be identical? (fully automatic, detachable magazine, intermediate cartridge)

Nope, submachine guns use pistol caliber rounds.

129 Velvet Elvis  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:56:27pm

re: #113 SpaceJesus

Wolf Blitzer saying that the perp dyed his hair red and green and thought he was literally the Joker.

That's kinda what I've been thinking.

The smoke bombs were the tell.

130 erik_t  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:57:12pm

re: #127 HappyWarrior

Best candidate money can buy.

I'd want a goddamned refund.

131 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:57:21pm

re: #123 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You

So the weapon used was not then in fact an "assault rifle" was it? (since it was not fully automatic). ;)

Uhh, about your definition? Then what would be the difference between an "assault rifle" and a "sub-machinegun" wouldn't the definition for both be identical? (fully automatic, detachable magazine, intermediate cartridge)

No. Technically speaking SMGs fire pistol cartridges.

132 Lidane  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:58:13pm

re: #130 erik_t

I'd want a goddamned refund.

After the election, a lot of folks might just demand one, especially if Mitt loses by a wide margin.

133 freetoken  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:58:23pm

Colorado Shooting Suspect Avoided Gun Reporting Requirement

[...]

The NRA has convinced state lawmakers to make it easier to buy and carry guns, said Adam Winkler, a University of California, Los Angeles law professor who wrote about the subject in his book, “Gunfight: The Battle over the Right to Bear Arms.”

Winkler pointed to states such as Arizona and Wyoming that don’t require permits to carry guns. Florida lawmakers in 2008 forced business owners to let employees and shoppers bring firearms on their property and leave the firearms locked in their cars.

Virginia lawmakers this year repealed a cap on buying more than one handgun per month.

“Tragic incidents like this don’t move gun control laws,” Winkler said in an interview. “No matter how many people die, gun control reforms go nowhere.”

The nuts are already out in strength in the comments to that Bloomberg wire story. It doesn't take them long.

134 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:58:24pm

re: #124 Mattand

The first draft of my post you quoted actually read, "Wolf fucking Blitzer."

I know.

135 Velvet Elvis  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 2:59:17pm

re: #123 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You

So the weapon used was not then in fact an "assault rifle" was it? (since it was not fully automatic). ;)

Uhh, about your definition? Then what would be the difference between an "assault rifle" and a "sub-machinegun" wouldn't the definition for both be identical? (fully automatic, detachable magazine, intermediate cartridge)

I'm pretty sure instructions are all over the net on how to make it full auto.

136 Randall Gross  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 3:00:09pm
137 Targetpractice  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 3:01:06pm

re: #133 freetoken

Colorado Shooting Suspect Avoided Gun Reporting Requirement

The nuts are already out in strength in the comments to that Bloomberg wire story. It doesn't take them long.

Another sign that this guy had been planning this for awhile. And another example of just how easy it is to get around gun laws if you know how to exploit the loopholes.

138 Mocking Jay  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 3:01:36pm

re: #136 Randall Gross

And then poops them out.

139 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 3:02:03pm

re: #85 Targetpractice

Uhm, great rant and all...except you should stop a sec and actually look up the meaning of terms. The one you're looking for is "assault weapon." The term "assault rifle" is a recognized one that is easy to define: Any automatic rifle that uses an intermediate cartridge and detachable magazine.

You left out selective fire. The original definition of assault rifle included the ability to select between full auto, single fire, and (sometimes) three round burst.

140 freetoken  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 3:02:05pm

On a totally unrelated topic... except in the minds of the AFA, Gohmert, and the like ... around the world:

Russian city prosecutes 73 people for ‘homosexual propaganda’

Seventy-three people have been prosecuted for violating new anti-gay legislation imposed in Russia’s former imperial city Saint Petersburg four months ago, police said Friday.

Liberia: Senate Passes Anti-Gay Bill

The Liberian Senate Thursday passed into law an anti gay bill seeking to prevent same sex marriage in Liberia.

[...]

The senator warmed that same sex couples visiting the country should abide the laws of Liberia or will bears the full penalty of the law. "If you are gay or lesbian and you having to come here we expect you to behave orderly. That is, stay away from each other until your departure", he added. [...]

141 Targetpractice  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 3:02:25pm

re: #139 goddamnedfrank

You left out selective fire. The original definition of assault rifle included the ability to select between full auto, single fire, and (sometimes) three round burst.

Ah, true, my mistake.

142 Randall Gross  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 3:03:02pm

re: #138 Mocking Jay

And then poops them out.

Yes, it does.

143 Mattand  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 3:03:31pm

re: #140 freetoken

On a totally unrelated topic... except in the minds of the AFA, Gohmert, and the like ... around the world:

Russian city prosecutes 73 people for ‘homosexual propaganda’

Liberia: Senate Passes Anti-Gay Bill

This just in: US conservatives move to St. Petersburg and Liberia in droves.

144 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 3:05:53pm

re: #143 Mattand

something tells me they'd avoid Liberia...

145 Mattand  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 3:06:46pm

re: #144 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

something tells me they'd avoid Liberia...

LOL, I thought that as soon as I posted.

146 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 3:14:41pm

Charlie Brooker's Newswipe 25/03/09

A psychiatrists (and Charlie Brooker's) insightful perspective on news coverage's perpetuation of mass shootings in schools.

147 JamesWI  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 3:18:21pm

re: #3 Charles Johnson

On Fox News, they were discussing banning costumes in movie theaters. Yeah, really.

It's the COSTUMES! These COSTUMES are the problem!

On Yahoo, the frontpage has had a story up all day saying it's Batman's fault, because there have been scenes in the comic books where people are killed in theaters. Also, the killer was wearing a gas mask, and the villain in the new movie wears a mask.

God, I fucking hate the media.

148 celticdragon  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 3:19:48pm

re: #79 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You

There is such a thing as an assault rifle, but the classical definition is:

A selective fire rifle that uses an intermediate powered cartridge derived from a full powered battle rifle cartridge such as British .303, US .30-06 or German 7.92 MM Mauser.

The German MP-44 was a true assault rifle, and the original AK-47 may be considered one as well. The M-16 does not qualify since it uses a sub caliber round, and the M-14, although using a 7.62 by 45 mm round that was cut down from .30-06, is still considered a battle rifle.

149 researchok  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 3:22:42pm

re: #146 Killgore Trout

Charlie Brooker's Newswipe 25/03/09

[Embedded content]

You ought to page this.

150 JonathanD  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 3:22:45pm

Brevik didn't invent the two terror events happening at the same time pattern, it is seen in the 9-11 bombings and other al queda bombings and is frequently seen in Iraq were a bombing is followed by additional concealed bombs that kill the rescuers. I point this out not to indict these groups in today's events, just that these are well known terror tactics.

151 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 3:23:47pm

why would you build a rifle merely to assault somebody? isn't the purpose of a rifle to commit a battery or a homicide? should be called a battery rifle, or a murder rifle.

152 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 3:26:07pm

just sayin

153 Gus  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 3:28:35pm

re: #20 SpaceJesus

MOOSLIM TRAITS YALL

[Banjo music.]

154 dragonfire1981  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 3:29:59pm

re: #153 Gus

[Banjo music.]

Paddle faster!

155 Gus  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 3:30:20pm

re: #133 freetoken

Colorado Shooting Suspect Avoided Gun Reporting Requirement

The nuts are already out in strength in the comments to that Bloomberg wire story. It doesn't take them long.

Blowhards is what they are. Still living in the past.

156 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 3:31:14pm

re: #153 Gus

boy you got purdy muslim mouth traits

157 Kragar  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 3:33:51pm

re: #143 Mattand

This just in: US conservatives move to St. Petersburg and Liberia in droves.

Oh, I wish.

158 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 3:34:55pm
Interviews with a half-dozen of Romney’s former partners and associates, as well as public records, show that he was not merely an absentee owner during this period. He signed dozens of company documents, including filings with regulators on a vast array of Bain’s investment entities. And he drove the complex negotiations over his own large severance package, a deal that was critical to the firm’s future without him, according to his former associates.

Indeed, by remaining CEO and sole shareholder, Romney held on to his leverage in the talks that resulted in his generous 10-year retirement package, according to former associates.

“The elephant in the room was not whether Mitt was involved in investment decisions but Mitt’s retention of control of the firm and therefore his ability to extract a huge economic benefit by delaying his giving up of that control,” said one former associate, who, like some other Romney associates, spoke only on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak for the company.

159 Gus  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 3:36:12pm

re: #137 Targetpractice

Another sign that this guy had been planning this for awhile. And another example of just how easy it is to get around gun laws if you know how to exploit the loopholes.

Blasphemy!

160 Kragar  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 3:42:23pm

re: #159 Gus

Blasphemy!

The right to own assault rifles with drum magazines was given to us by Jesus.

161 dragonath  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 3:47:57pm

re: #3 Charles Johnson

On Fox News, they were discussing banning costumes in movie theaters. Yeah, really.

It's the COSTUMES! These COSTUMES are the problem!

You obviously missed the Panic of 1976 when a midnight showing of the Rocky Horror Picture Show turned everybody into a transvestite.

162 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 3:52:20pm

re: #161 Fred Galt

You obviously missed the Panic of 1976 when a midnight showing of the Rocky Horror Picture Show turned everybody into a transvestite.

What does this mean about all the little girls going around Disneyworld dressed up as princesses?

Is the US descending into monarchy? Worse, a monarchy in which the rulers throw tantrums at bedtime and in the grocery store?

163 Gus  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 3:58:08pm

It will soon be harder to purchase a Joker mask for the next several months than it will be for the next crackhead to purchase an assault rifle.

164 Kragar  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 4:00:40pm

re: #163 Gus

It will soon be harder to purchase a Joker mask for the next several months than it will be for the next crackhead to purchase an assault rifle.

Got to have ones priorities straight.

165 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 4:01:24pm

re: #163 Gus

It will soon be harder to purchase a Joker mask for the next several months than it will be for the next crackhead to purchase an assault rifle.

I think Joker masks will be in very poor taste.

I expect to see them in certain places for that very reason.

166 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 4:01:28pm

So, influential elements propose we respond by carrying a pistol, reading the Bible, and banning costumes from theaters.
And they ask why things are going wrong in this country?

My tea party neighbor was initially sure that Mexicans were involved. He has now perforce dropped this meme in favor of teh ghey, since it will presumably be harder to uncover the maniac's sexual preference than it was to learn his surname.
He also sees this as affirming the need to pack heat everywhere you go. He knows I'm an experienced shooter and that I own a .45 pistol (actually more than one). Naturally he thinks I'm nuts for not carrying it everywhere I go. I told him I did that in Baghdad but the threat in Lubbock has not reached that level, at least not yet.

167 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 4:01:29pm

19 year-old kid helped save people during the shooting

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

168 Gus  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 4:04:16pm

re: #164 Kragar

Got to have ones priorities straight.

Gun corporations are people too my friend.

//

169 Nemesis6  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 4:04:28pm

This is why guns are bad.

170 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 4:04:29pm

re: #167 SpaceJesus

19 year-old kid helped save people during the shooting

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

I fully expect to see the Freepers pointing out that this good kid is black.

They would certainly be pointing it out if it were in reverse.

171 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 4:05:44pm

re: #170 Mostly sane, most of the time.

I've already been looking for a freep thread on this story. No dice.

172 efuseakay  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 4:06:01pm

Been debating with one of those "If anyone else in the theater had a gun, this wouldn't have been so bad!" people... They went on about how "law abiding citizens with CCW" could have helped stop this. Well, the thing is, this guy was a legal, law-abiding citizen/gun owner. Until last night.

173 Mocking Jay  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 4:07:18pm

re: #171 SpaceJesus

I've already been looking for a freep thread on this story. No dice.

Like it never happened?

174 Mocking Jay  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 4:08:15pm

re: #172 efuseakay

Been debating with one of those "If anyone else in the theater had a gun, this wouldn't have been so bad!" people... They went on about how "law abiding citizens with CCW" could have helped stop this. Well, the thing is, this guy was a legal, law-abiding citizen/gun owner. Until last night.

Yes, more guns firing in a dark, gas-filled theater sounds like an excellent idea. What could go wrong?

175 Gus  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 4:08:34pm

re: #172 efuseakay

Been debating with one of those "If anyone else in the theater had a gun, this wouldn't have been so bad!" people... They went on about how "law abiding citizens with CCW" could have helped stop this. Well, the thing is, this guy was a legal, law-abiding citizen/gun owner. Until last night.

We have CCW in Colorado and there are no city bans that I'm aware of. Folks like this need to stop having these Rambo fantasies.

176 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 4:09:22pm

re: #173 Mocking Jay


Kid is black, so there's a real good chance freep won't have it.

Hey stalkers, do me a solid and go post this story about Brooks over at Free Republic. I know almost all of you post there.

177 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 4:14:59pm

I'm a combat veteran and a good pistol shot. My chances of bagging this jerk in a dark theater full of tear gas and running, screaming people? As close to zero as doesn't matter. That's just reality.
There were several armed police officers right in the theater complex at the time. They had no chance of getting into the specific theater and shooting the guy there, either: They only got him when he went outside.

178 Mocking Jay  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 4:17:29pm

re: #177 Shiplord Kirel

I'm a combat veteran and a good pistol shot. My chances of bagging this jerk in a dark theater full of tear gas and running, screaming people? As close to zero as doesn't matter. That's just reality.
There were several armed police officers right in the theater complex at the time. They had no chance of getting into the specific theater and shooting the guy there, either: They only got him when he went outside.

I'd also imagine that something like this happens very very quickly.

179 efuseakay  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 4:18:42pm

re: #174 Mocking Jay

Yes, more guns firing in a dark, gas-filled theater sounds like an excellent idea. What could go wrong?

Quit re-enacting sensationalist movie fantasies in your head!!!!!

//

(That was actually an excuse someone gave in another forum)

180 wrenchwench  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 4:19:34pm

re: #151 SpaceJesus

why would you build a rifle merely to assault somebody? isn't the purpose of a rifle to commit a battery or a homicide? should be called a battery rifle, or a murder rifle.

This is how I can tell you are a lawyer now. Civilians think 'assault' is doing it, not threatening to do it, and 'battery' is what you put in your toys. You now habla la lengua del Abogado.

181 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 4:19:47pm

re: #178 Mocking Jay

I'd also imagine that something like this happens very very quickly.

A good point. It would take at least several seconds and a lot of shots to be sure this wasn't part of the show.

182 kirkspencer  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 4:20:25pm

re: #177 Shiplord Kirel

I'm a combat veteran and a good pistol shot. My chances of bagging this jerk in a dark theater full of tear gas and running, screaming people? As close to zero as doesn't matter. That's just reality.
There were several armed police officers right in the theater complex at the time. They had no chance of getting into the specific theater and shooting the guy there, either: They only got him when he went outside.

Most of them seem to think they'd have hit and dropped him with one shot. Me, I think he'd have noticed the bullets hitting his armor as well as the flashes and prioritized.

On top of, that is, the friendly fire deaths and injuries.

183 Gus  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 4:21:40pm

Anything is possible when you're sitting in your mother's basement munching on a bag of Cheetos.

184 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 4:22:45pm

I just noticed this upthread....

New information about the suspected Aurora killer, James Holmes, suggests that he may have been inspired by Norwegian anti-Muslim terrorist Anders Behring Breivik. The scenario he tried to set up was very similar to Breivik’s — a massive bombing followed by a mass murder attack

Uh, no. That seems pretty unlikely. You could use the same logic to claim he may have been inspired my Bill Ayers or the Black Panthers. I find it highly unlikely that Breivik was the inspiration for his attack.

185 Targetpractice  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 4:23:13pm

re: #172 efuseakay

Been debating with one of those "If anyone else in the theater had a gun, this wouldn't have been so bad!" people... They went on about how "law abiding citizens with CCW" could have helped stop this. Well, the thing is, this guy was a legal, law-abiding citizen/gun owner. Until last night.

Guy was dressed in a ballistic helmet, vest, leggings, throat, and groin protector. He was loaded for bear. The theater was dark, smokey, and in utter chaos. I really don't see Joe Sixpack standing up with his gun and doing more than pissing the guy off.

186 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 4:23:49pm

re: #182 kirkspencer

Most of them seem to think they'd have hit and dropped him with one shot. Me, I think he'd have noticed the bullets hitting his armor as well as the flashes and prioritized.

On top of, that is, the friendly fire deaths and injuries.

In Oregon, there was a shooter who was stopped by some young men when he stopped to re-load.

Not with a gun. It was daylight in a crowded cafeteria, so they tackled him. Seven of them, and they were athletes. One had already been shot and was shot again in the process.

187 Gus  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 4:23:49pm

re: #184 Killgore Trout

I just noticed this upthread...

Uh, no. That seems pretty unblikely. You could use the same logic to claim he may have been inspired my Bill Ayers or the Black Panthers. I find it highly unlikely that Breivik was the inspiration for his attack.

[Giggle]

//

188 Mocking Jay  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 4:24:33pm

Contrarian Trout Strikes Again.

189 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 4:24:54pm

re: #180 wrenchwench

i'm sitting here doing practice essays all day long for the az bar exam on tuesday (on wills and trusts right now). i hate the law atm.

did you know that if you kill your parents but aren't convicted, you still can't inherit from them under a will or intestacy? the probate court can find you "guilty" of murdering them with only a preponderance of the evidence instead of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. you won't do time, you just wont inherit anything.

190 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 4:24:58pm

re: #182 kirkspencer

Most of them seem to think they'd have hit and dropped him with one shot. Me, I think he'd have noticed the bullets hitting his armor as well as the flashes and prioritized.

On top of, that is, the friendly fire deaths and injuries.

I can hear the armchair commandos squealing about the Mozambique drill.

Me? Even if I were armed, it's drop to floor and low crawl the opposite way to a defensible location while shoving wife ahead of me. Hopefully my fat old ass would provide cover & concealment in the dark...

191 Mocking Jay  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 4:25:32pm

re: #189 SpaceJesus

i'm sitting here doing practice essays all day long for the az bar exam on tuesday (on wills and trusts right now). i hate the law atm.

did you know that if you kill your parents but aren't convicted, you still can't collect from them under a will or intestacy? the probate court can find you "guilty" of murdering them with only a preponderance of the evidence instead of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. you won't do time, you just wont inherit anything.

Hey, thanks for the tip!

192 Gus  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 4:26:05pm

re: #190 William Barnett-Lewis

I can hear the armchair commandos squealing about the Mozambique drill.

Me? Even if I were armed, it's drop to floor and low crawl the opposite way to a defensible location while shoving wife ahead of me. Hopefully my fat old ass would provide cover & concealment in the dark...

My ass wouldn't help me. I've got a Hank Hill ass.

//

193 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 4:26:11pm

re: #189 SpaceJesus

did you know that if you kill your parents but aren't convicted, you still can't collect from them under a will or intestacy? the probate court can find you "guilty" of murdering them with only a preponderance of the evidence instead of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. you won't do time, you just wont inherit anything.

Now you tell me?!?!

194 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 4:27:38pm

I could probably get him from the balcony with my scoped Moisin-Nagant. I'll start taking that to the movies.
///

195 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 4:28:07pm

re: #189 SpaceJesus

i'm sitting here doing practice essays all day long for the az bar exam on tuesday (on wills and trusts right now). i hate the law atm.

did you know that if you kill your parents but aren't convicted, you still can't inherit from them under a will or intestacy? the probate court can find you "guilty" of murdering them with only a preponderance of the evidence instead of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. you won't do time, you just wont inherit anything.

You haven't seen my parents' house.

If they die of natural causes, I might still plant enough evidence to make that place my siblings' problem.

One parent is a collector, and the other is an uber-collector.

196 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 4:28:38pm

re: #184 Killgore Trout

I just noticed this upthread...

Uh, no. That seems pretty unlikely. You could use the same logic to claim he may have been inspired my Bill Ayers or the Black Panthers. I find it highly unlikely that Breivik was the inspiration for his attack.

Another similarity is that he apparently didn't intend to kill himself. And there's no similarity that I can see between what this guy did and what any Weatherman or Black Panther did, beyond the obvious and very general fact that they were violent.

Of course, I know you don't believe Egyptians are influenced by the news stories they see, either.

197 wrenchwench  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 4:29:18pm

re: #189 SpaceJesus

i'm sitting here doing practice essays all day long for the az bar exam on tuesday (on wills and trusts right now). i hate the law atm.

did you know that if you kill your parents but aren't convicted, you still can't collect from them under a will or intestacy? the probate court can find you "guilty" of murdering them with only a preponderance of the evidence instead of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. you won't do time, you just wont inherit anything.

My friend who was a year behind you (I think) is studying for the NM bar, and learning about her caffeine tolerance and best ways to nap on thick books and thin laptops. Then I have another friend a year behind her.

People who kill their parents shouldn't inherit. Nothing worse than whiny, self-inflicted orphans.

198 kirkspencer  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 4:31:35pm

re: #186 Mostly sane, most of the time.

In Oregon, there was a shooter who was stopped by some young men when he stopped to re-load.

Not with a gun. It was daylight in a crowded cafeteria, so they tackled him. Seven of them, and they were athletes. One had already been shot and was shot again in the process.

Yep. which does not justify CCW at all.

And Ryker tackled Kinkel as he was putting bullets into the magazine of his Ruger .22 rifle after charging across a flat cafeteria in daylight. Even so Kinkel had time to draw and fire his Glock 19, and had Kinkel been a bit more accurate Ryker would have been one more dead body.

199 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 4:33:08pm

I know, though - it's pretty danged far-fetched to imagine that any American could possibly be influenced by what happened in Norway. What was I thinking?

Following Up Kevin Forts, Breivik's US Sympathizer.

200 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 4:36:05pm

re: #197 wrenchwench

Yep. I've been checking in on facebook and watching all the recent grads freak out over the bar exam. Reminds me of me last year. It's quite the quiz. Our firm's head partner is smart as hell and didn't pass the NM bar when he took it in Feb.

201 Gus  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 4:36:46pm

Am I a Romney?

Take the quiz.

202 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 4:41:58pm

re: #4 Tumulus11

. Unlike most spree killers, neither Breivik nor James Holmes committed suicide.

Unimportant, unless Holmes turns out to be another politically motivated monster on a mission.

We'll see. No sign of that yet.

203 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 4:43:28pm

re: #10 Kragar

Well, if costumes are the problem, the tea party is completely fucked.

The costumes are the only part of the Tea Party I like!

204 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 4:43:43pm

re: #202 SanFranciscoZionist

Unimportant, unless Holmes turns out to be another politically motivated monster on a mission.

We'll see. No sign of that yet.

By saying he may have been influenced by Breivik's crime, I'm not implying any kind of political motivation. I'm referring only to his tactics.

205 wrenchwench  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 4:45:22pm

Good info at the link, including

But before we embrace Zamudio's brave intervention as proof of the value of being armed, let's hear the whole story. "I came out of that store, I clicked the safety off, and I was ready," he explained on Fox and Friends. "I had my hand on my gun. I had it in my jacket pocket here. And I came around the corner like this." Zamudio demonstrated how his shooting hand was wrapped around the weapon, poised to draw and fire. As he rounded the corner, he saw a man holding a gun. "And that's who I at first thought was the shooter," Zamudio recalled. "I told him to 'Drop it, drop it!' "

But the man with the gun wasn't the shooter. He had wrested the gun away from the shooter. "Had you shot that guy, it would have been a big, fat mess," the interviewer pointed out.

Zamudio agreed:

I was very lucky. Honestly, it was a matter of seconds. Two, maybe three seconds between when I came through the doorway and when I was laying on top of [the real shooter], holding him down. So, I mean, in that short amount of time I made a lot of really big decisions really fast. … I was really lucky.

When Zamudio was asked what kind of weapons training he'd had, he answered: "My father raised me around guns … so I'm really comfortable with them. But I've never been in the military or had any professional training. I just reacted."

Here's the 'single-page' link, so you can easily read the whole thing.

206 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 4:45:29pm

re: #202 SanFranciscoZionist

Unimportant, unless Holmes turns out to be another politically motivated monster on a mission.

We'll see. No sign of that yet.

So far the evidence suggests he was inspired by the comic book series and was reenacting a scene from a batman comic.

207 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 4:48:23pm

re: #204 Charles Johnson

By saying he may have been influenced by Breivik's crime, I'm not implying any kind of political motivation. I'm referring only to his tactics.

This seems a far more likely inspiration for his tactics: 1986 Dark Knight Returns comic portrays movie theater shooting

208 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 4:52:59pm

re: #207 Killgore Trout

Maybe, we'll see. A comic book is one thing, but the level of preparation Holmes put into this is something else entirely. He didn't just read a graphic novel, grab a gun, and run to a theater.

A big bomb intended to take out a lot of people, followed right away by a shooting attack with military-style equipment, in a crowded place difficult to escape from. These descriptions fit the attack in Norway and the attack in Aurora.

If he wasn't influenced by Breivik at all, so be it; but there's no denying an eerie similarity in these events.

209 darthstar  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 4:54:29pm

Comic relief time...blast off!

Image: 544613_10151127868916320_611658266_n.jpg

210 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 4:57:13pm

re: #21 sagehen

"Black people aren't crazy. Black people do stupid things. You see a black guy doing the perp walk, he stole some old lady's welfare check, or shoplifted socks. But when you find a body with the toes cut off and the eyes was used for click-clacks... a white guy did that."
--Chris Rock

As I mentioned in the last thread, that's not strictly true--there have been black serial killers.

211 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 4:58:40pm

re: #47 Mocking Jay

Just got back from seeing it. They searched my almost 60 year-old mom's purse. If this is going to a recurring theme then I'm going to start going to the movies with a backpack full of dildos and butt plugs for them to sift through.

On another blog, one guy just commented, "This is the end of sneaking in sodas and candy from outside to avoid rip-off prices."

That's the least of our concerns right now, but he may be correct.

212 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 4:59:08pm

re: #51 dragonfire1981

It's funny how people like that woman fail to realize there are MILLIONS of people who play VIOLENT video games every day and lead completely normal lives in completely normal mental states.

OK, I'm not sure I would describe my husband's mental state as COMPLETELY normal.

213 erik_t  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 4:59:34pm

re: #211 SanFranciscoZionist

Of course, the guy didn't bring in any contraband through the primary entrance. Not that this ever stopped security theater.

214 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 5:00:13pm

re: #212 SanFranciscoZionist

OK, I'm not sure I would describe my husband's mental state as COMPLETELY normal.

My husband has drawn the line at "M" games. He stops at "T."

215 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 5:00:44pm

re: #72 Major Tom

right? a three month old? -at the movies? at midnight? Get a sitter. just sayin.

They sleep. An older baby, it's not appropriate, since they cry, and can actually be upset by sounds from the movie, but the very small ones don't care what the hell is going on, they just lie on Mommy or Daddy and black the hell out. Lots of people take very small infants to movies, for that very reason.

216 abolitionist  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 5:01:18pm

Obama orders flags at half-staff after Colorado shooting

President Barack Obama ordered the American flag flown at half-staff over the White House and all public buildings and grounds, as well as embassies and military bases overseas and naval vessels, to honor the victims of the mass shooting in Aurora, Colo., on Friday.

That might slow down immigration a little.

But seriously, nice gesture, Mr. President.

217 darthstar  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 5:02:12pm

Video link is broken, but here's where it should point...

218 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 5:05:20pm

re: #204 Charles Johnson

By saying he may have been influenced by Breivik's crime, I'm not implying any kind of political motivation. I'm referring only to his tactics.

Another similarity is that both are fairly high functioning and otherwise highly intelligent people. The thing that made Breivik a truly epic level monster was his ability to focus, plan and refine his shit meticulously over the span of a decade.

219 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 5:09:23pm

re: #172 efuseakay

Been debating with one of those "If anyone else in the theater had a gun, this wouldn't have been so bad!" people... They went on about how "law abiding citizens with CCW" could have helped stop this. Well, the thing is, this guy was a legal, law-abiding citizen/gun owner. Until last night.

Is there any evidence that people in the theater were not armed?

Colorado issues concealed carry permits.

Unless the theater had a specific policy that you leave your shootin' irons outside, why are these people so sure that no one was armed? Just because they weren't crazy enough to try to shoot in an impossible situation?

220 darthstar  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 5:10:10pm

You may need to Ctrl-+ a few times to read it, but these fast food company "quotes" on gay marriage are pretty funny.

Image: 561011_394654947250382_180848990_n.jpg

221 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 5:11:02pm

re: #177 Shiplord Kirel

I'm a combat veteran and a good pistol shot. My chances of bagging this jerk in a dark theater full of tear gas and running, screaming people? As close to zero as doesn't matter. That's just reality.
There were several armed police officers right in the theater complex at the time. They had no chance of getting into the specific theater and shooting the guy there, either: They only got him when he went outside.

This. Jesus H., a gun is a weapon, not a magic spell that makes dangerous situations safe.

222 Gus  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 5:12:25pm

This has been going around for a while now...

223 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 5:12:25pm

re: #185 Targetpractice

Guy was dressed in a ballistic helmet, vest, leggings, throat, and groin protector. He was loaded for bear. The theater was dark, smokey, and in utter chaos. I really don't see Joe Sixpack standing up with his gun and doing more than pissing the guy off.

Or, more likely, shooting another victim, or being shot by yet another panicked citizen with a gun.

224 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 5:13:13pm

re: #188 Mocking Jay

Contrarian Trout Strikes Again.

I'm going to have to see a bit more evidence myself before I connect this to Breivik in any way. It's not like crazy people shooting folks in public places is a new thing in America, sad to say.

225 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 5:14:20pm

re: #194 Shiplord Kirel

I could probably get him from the balcony with my scoped Moisin-Nagant. I'll start taking that to the movies.
///

My dad's got a Moisin-Nagant.

I think in this case the attached bayonet might have been my best chance.

226 Targetpractice  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 5:15:44pm

re: #222 Gus

This has been going around for a while now...

[Embedded content]

Would have covered the weapon as well as the magazine he used with it.

That now makes two shooting rampages where the shooter used an item (weapon/magazine) that was banned by the AWB.

227 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 5:16:11pm

re: #204 Charles Johnson

By saying he may have been influenced by Breivik's crime, I'm not implying any kind of political motivation. I'm referring only to his tactics.

It's possible, but there are a LOT of potential influences for this kind of thing.

228 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 5:16:49pm

As usual, TMZ covers the weirder facet of the story:

A man claiming to be James Holmes created a profile on a popular sex website just days before "The Dark Knight Rises" massacre ... in which he described his penis as "short/average" ... and law enforcement sources tell TMZ investigators are now looking at the site to determine its authenticity.

"Holmes" created the profile on AdultFriendFinder.com July 5 -- and included a picture of himself with reddish, orange hair ... just as officials in Aurora, CO said he looked when he was apprehended Friday morning.

"Holmes" -- who used the screen name classicjimbo -- included a cryptic message on the top of the profile which reads, "Will you visit me in prison?"

229 Velvet Elvis  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 5:17:51pm

re: #206 Killgore Trout

So far the evidence suggests he was inspired by the comic book series and was reenacting a scene from a batman comic.

This is what seems the most likely to me so far. Dude was a neuroscience geek. Which is he more likely to be influenced by, comic books or right wing European terrorists?

230 engineer cat  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 5:17:51pm

i kindof want to know what awful psychosis motivated this and i kindof don't

231 ReamWorks SKG  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 5:18:00pm

Well, at least nobody's blaming the Jews for this!

232 Velvet Elvis  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 5:18:44pm

re: #219 SanFranciscoZionist

Unless the theater had a specific policy that you leave your shootin' irons outside, why are these people so sure that no one was armed? Just because they weren't crazy enough to try to shoot in an impossible situation?

According to a commenter on reddit, the theater had such a policy.

233 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 5:19:30pm

re: #214 Mostly sane, most of the time.

My husband has drawn the line at "M" games. He stops at "T."

My husband games, all his friends game, all my friends game. I, I alone, do not game.

I played Grand Theft Auto for a while, but I couldn't really be bothered with it. During my brief period of GTA I kept trying to avoid criminal activities, which is not actually possible, but I experimented with things like stealing a cab and then functioning as a cabbie for as long as possible without doing anything else criminal. The game doesn't like that. It starts to push you.

234 Velvet Elvis  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 5:22:08pm

re: #208 Charles Johnson

Maybe, we'll see. A comic book is one thing, but the level of preparation Holmes put into this is something else entirely. He didn't just read a graphic novel, grab a gun, and run to a theater.

You know who put a lot of preparation into his criminal acts? The Joker.

235 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 5:25:04pm

re: #232 Velvet Elvis

According to a commenter on reddit, the theater had such a policy.

Thanks.

236 Targetpractice  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 5:25:11pm

re: #234 Velvet Elvis

You know who put a lot of preparation into his criminal acts? The Joker.

Which is actually sort of the funny thing, that the Joker is actually a very intellectual guy...who just happens to be crazier than a shit-house rat.

237 bubba zanetti  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 5:27:37pm
238 allegro  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 5:31:03pm

re: #233 SanFranciscoZionist

My husband games, all his friends game, all my friends game. I, I alone, do not game.

I played Grand Theft Auto for a while, but I couldn't really be bothered with it. During my brief period of GTA I kept trying to avoid criminal activities, which is not actually possible, but I experimented with things like stealing a cab and then functioning as a cabbie for as long as possible without doing anything else criminal. The game doesn't like that. It starts to push you.

Jeez, I'm old. I swore it wouldn't happen, that I would never be an old lady luddite, but here I am. I stopped at Leisure Suit Larry. That was entirely entertaining and kept me and my grad students busy for days laughing our asses off.

239 Aye Pod  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 5:34:06pm

re: #230 engineer cat

i kindof want to know what awful psychosis motivated this and i kindof don't

There doesn't seem to be any 'sense' to this incident at all, not even an evil 'sense'. It does seem tempting at this point to think at least some degree of a psychotic type illness may be involved.

240 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 5:34:40pm

re: #222 Gus

This has been going around for a while now...

[Embedded content]

It is, of course, wrong so I expect both sides will be screaming over it for weeks to come.

(the so called ban didn't ban anything)

241 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 5:36:53pm

re: #226 Targetpractice

Would have covered the weapon as well as the magazine he used with it.

That now makes two shooting rampages where the shooter used an item (weapon/magazine) that was banned by the AWB.

Nope. Plenty of those mags were made before the ban. Post ban rifles were easy to find. Might have been more expensive but that's all.

242 Gus  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 5:40:00pm

re: #237 bubba zanetti

[Embedded content]

Silence my ass. Who in the world is being silent about this anyway? America has a problem and it needs to get its head out of its ass. This is especially true considering how arrogantly we look at others around the world.

243 allegro  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 5:43:06pm

re: #242 Gus

Silence my ass. Who in the world is being silent about this anyway? America has a problem and it needs to get its head out of its ass. This is especially true considering how arrogantly we look at others around the world.

It looked to me as though she was saying that the NRA wants silence, as in doesn't want the questions asked. I think she's right.

244 wrenchwench  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 5:43:38pm
245 Gus  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 5:44:12pm

re: #243 allegro

It looked to me as though she was saying that the NRA wants silence, as in doesn't want the questions asked. I think she's right.

I know she's right. That's a response to all of the dodo heads out there that have been calling for people to be silent.

246 Gus  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 5:54:45pm

Hmm. 10 minutes. Guess I'll find something else to do.

247 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 6:01:19pm
248 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 6:01:36pm

re: #244 wrenchwench

Later, lizards.

Image: funny-cat-pictures-i-must-be-in-soviet-rushya.jpg

Cow vs. cat. Who will emerge victorious?

249 MittDoesNotCompute  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 6:03:07pm

re: #248 Charles Johnson

Cow vs. cat. Who will emerge victorious?

The cat is one gulp to that cow...just sayin'.

/

250 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 6:05:30pm

Aurora police presser right now.

251 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 6:06:40pm

re: #247 Stanley Sea

[Embedded content]

I wish journalists would stop saying "how could this happen" when they goddamned well know exactly how it happened. I look forward to Anderson soon asking witnesses and shooting victims such deep and enlightening questions as "how did you feel when the gunman opened fire?"

252 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 6:09:15pm

The surprising thing is that this doesn't happen every day.

253 efuseakay  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 6:09:36pm

Libertarian Paulite acquaintance:

[quote]People that think banning guns to prevent things like the Colorado movie theatre shooting should also be in favor of banning cars and alcohol. Then we could prevent all incidents of drunk driving. See the logic?[/quote]

Uh... yeah, I do... and it's not in your favor. smh

254 efuseakay  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 6:10:45pm

re: #252 goddamnedfrank

The surprising thing is that this doesn't happen every day.

It does in Chicago. Just out in the streets, not in movie theaters.

255 macaw  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 6:36:33pm

Hi. Registering here after some lurking.


The attacks in Norway are almost a year old, from Friday the 22nd. This is Friday the 20th July. I would be surprised if there was not some sort of connection.

256 Tommy B  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 6:47:53pm

A lot of people, both on this site and elsewhere, need to be a bit more patient in learning what the killer's motives were. We're likely to have a much better idea in a few days' time. I agree with Charles that his spree has some similarities with Anders Breivik's - the combination of shooting and (attempted) bombing, the use of armor, the apparent desire for a high number of victims, allowing himself to be captured rather than killing himself - but that doesn't necessarily tell us anything about his motivation.

Even the early assumptions made by police and large media outlets have a pretty poor track record recently: remember the initial reports that the Utoya massacre was committed by Islamist fanatics, or that the Toulouse and Montauban murders were the work of neo-Nazis? Both fairly plausible assumptions that turned out to be completely wrong. While I have faith in the ability of the Colorado justice system to get to the bottom of these latest killings, it will probably still be some time before we know the full story.

257 MPH  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 6:54:03pm

Before LGF turned left, anytime there was a tragedy of this sort, the LGF comments section immediately filled up with assumptions that the killer was Muslim. I remember my wife being savaged by the other commenters for suggesting restraint when there was no evidence to suggest such an accusation.

And Charles knows I hate The Pam Gellar/Robert Spencer crazies as much as he does (some of their commenters still threaten me and my wife to this day), but to suggest that this mass murderer was inspired by the same madness that drove Breivik is a similar sort of irresponsible speculation that used to happen here. Why even bring up any possible connection (political or tactical or anything) at this point?

258 Velvet Elvis  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 7:01:51pm

re: #255 macaw

Hi. Registering here after some lurking.

The attacks in Norway are almost a year old, from Friday the 22nd. This is Friday the 20th July. I would be surprised if there was not some sort of connection.

It's also only five days from the anniversary of the shooting at the Tennessee Vally Unitarian Universalist Church in Knoxville Tennessee. A heavily armed man walked in and opened fire during a Childrens production of Annie because he hated liberals. Two died and seven were wounded. How is that less of a possible connection?

259 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 7:15:24pm

re: #257 MPH

There's nothing wrong with pointing out the similarities between the Norway attacks and the Aurora attacks. It has nothing to do with politics. There are marked tactical similarities in the two crimes.

260 boredtechindenver  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 7:20:34pm

Regarding the booby trapped apartment, the Denver Post is reporting:

A tangle of wires, trip wires, jars full of liquid and things resembling mortar rounds will keep bomb technicians out of the alleged Aurora theater shooter's apartment until Saturday.

261 Tommy B  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 9:38:43pm

Hmm, wasn't expecting my post to be downdinged. Sorry, guys, but I still think we need to wait for more details here. Charles is correct to point out the tactical similarities to Breivik, but those similarities may or may not extend to motive. If the killer is indeed another Breivik, I'm sure we'll find out about it in due course. Thanks to Charles and others for continuing to monitor the news coverage and keeping us informed.

I should probably also take the time to say the obvious: regardless of why the killer committed these acts, this is just an awful situation. I was at an opening night screening of this film in Melbourne two days ago with some friends who are massive fans of the Batman franchise, and the atmosphere was fantastic. It's a hugely enjoyable film which will now be forever tarnished by the association with these shootings. I don't have words for how horrific the situation must be for the survivors and the families of the victims.


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