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1 Stanghazi  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 6:10:22pm
2 boredtechindenver  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 6:11:39pm

Stream available here.

3 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 6:11:50pm

A few of the victims weren't shot, but were killed in the chaos.

4 Stanghazi  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 6:11:57pm

6000 rounds of ammo purchased via the internet.

5 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 6:12:40pm

60 rounds within one minute with the drum magazine in his assault rifle.

6 Destro  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 6:13:52pm

Gov. Hickenlooper looked to be in shock. I am now in shock and angered that this killer bought these guns so easily and over the internet bought - did i hear right? 6K rounds? - so easy to do it seems? Why? Why do we need such weapons sold easily? To stave off the zombie apocalypse or an invasion by some fictional UN army? Sorry, anger over this is high. So I will end typing on subject.

7 Destro  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 6:14:27pm

re: #4 Stanley Sea

6000 rounds of ammo purchased via the internet.

I heard that too, too angry to speak right now.

8 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 6:14:39pm

HLN just went to commercial in the middle of the conference. wtf?

9 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 6:17:15pm

re: #5 Charles Johnson

60 rounds within one minute with the drum magazine in his assault rifle.

And that's a conservative estimate. This video shows that a .223 semi auto can push out 3-4 rounds per second no problem.

10 Stanghazi  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 6:17:27pm

re: #8 SpaceJesus

HLN just went to commercial in the middle of the conference. wtf?

I'm watching TMZ. yeah.

11 Stanghazi  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 6:19:00pm

Not going to release his photo.

12 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 6:21:58pm

Man, the police chief really looks shaken up. That must have been a horrible scene.

13 Stanghazi  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 6:24:54pm

This is so fucked up. Even the cops are shaken. A punk did this, quite easily.

Things are going to change. I have a suspicion the police are going to start advocating it themselves.

14 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 6:26:26pm
15 Stanghazi  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 6:26:28pm

The Chief called it an assault rifle for you peeps debating earlier.

16 Destro  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 6:27:22pm

re: #12 Charles Johnson

Man, the police chief really looks shaken up. That must have been a horrible scene.

[Link: huff.to...]

Dr. Comilla Sasson, emergency room physician at Anschutz University Hospital in Aurora, said wounded people from the Batman shooting began streaming into emergency room, one after another, in ambulances, police cars and private autos. One patient was a 3-month-old baby.

"This has actually been one of the most horrific nights in my career," Sasson told the Denver Post. "This silver lining is that the baby is okay."

[Link: huff.to...]

One of James Holmes former instructors at the University of California-Riverside told The Huffington Post that Holmes was exceptionally smart, competent with complicated science.

Hongxia Wang said Holmes worked with him in a project doing complex oligonucleotide separation through a process called high-performance liquid chromatography. Oligonucleotides are essential for gene therapy.
Hongxia, in an email, described Holmes as a motivated young student, who apparently took a dramatic turn towards darkness.
"He was a smart guy and a quick learner. He asked a lot of questions when I taught him how to use HPLC, which was good because he was thinking actively. As a result, he was able to use it well, independantly and very quickly." Hongxia said. "This is impressive, compared to other undergraduates I worked with before."

"I had a great time working together with him," Wang said. "As for personality, he was nice, easy-going and liked to share his opinions with others."

17 Destro  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 6:28:05pm

re: #15 Stanley Sea

The Chief called it an assault rifle for you peeps debating earlier.

It was illegal to own this kind of weapon used here until the assulat ban ended.

18 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 6:29:26pm

re: #13 Stanley Sea

This is so fucked up. Even the cops are shaken. A punk did this, quite easily.

Things are going to change. I have a suspicion the police are going to start advocating it themselves.

Don't count on it. Urban police have been advocating changes for a very long time but the memory of the midterms after the AWB, toothless as it was, ensures that the Democratic Party will not allow any significant gun regulations to move forward.

It's a rural/urban thing, mostly, and it has a profound influence on elections. Walker probably got his +6 over his original election simply on the strength of signing the CCW legislation.

19 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 6:30:23pm

re: #15 Stanley Sea

The Chief called it an assault rifle for you peeps debating earlier.

Urban cops always do. They generally don't know much, or want to know much, about firearms. IME & all that.

20 Stanghazi  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 6:30:26pm

re: #18 William Barnett-Lewis

Don't count on it. Urban police have been advocating changes for a very long time but the memory of the midterms after the AWB, toothless as it was, ensures that the Democratic Party will not allow any significant gun regulations to move forward.

It's a rural/urban thing, mostly, and it has a profound influence on elections. Walker probably got his +6 over his original election simply on the strength of signing the CCW legislation.

wow

21 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 6:30:38pm

re: #17 Destro

It was illegal to own this kind of weapon used here until the assulat ban ended.

Purchase new, not own. The Federal AWB wasn't retroactive and never applied to sales of used guns.

22 dragonfire1981  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 6:31:10pm

re: #6 Destro

Gov. Hickenlooper looked to be in shock. I am now in shock and angered that this killer bought these guns so easily and over the internet bought - did i hear right? 6K rounds? - so easy to do it seems? Why? Why do we need such weapons sold easily? To stave off the zombie apocalypse or an invasion by some fictional UN army? Sorry, anger over this is high. So I will end typing on subject.

The problem is that as soon as some politician or political pundit starts advocating for stronger gun measures, the NRA/GOP group goes into full outrage mode, furious at the "offenders" for trying to interfere with their "2nd amendment rights."

Of course they completely ignore the fact that it's possible to have certain gun laws in place AND leave the 2nd amendment completely intact.

23 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 6:32:41pm

Holmes bought the guns at Gander Mountain Sports and Outdoors.

This is their current ad for the Colt AR-15 carbine. You can buy this over the net too, though Holmes apparently got his in the store. There are several other AR type rifles in their ad.

24 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 6:32:47pm

I'm perhaps a bit more strongly "pro-2nd Amendment" than a lot of people with whom I share opinions in general, but there are a lot of places I think the laws regarding ownership could be tightened up significantly without undue imposition on anyone's liberty. The "gun show loophole" for one thing, as well as the completely legal undocumented transfer of weapons between private individuals (which I suppose are actually the same thing, now that I think about it). I think the FFL regs are pretty good to the extent that they're enforced, and I am leaning towards the idea that unlicensed sale should be done away with. It's a huge can of worms, to be sure.

That said, bans on specific types of weapons are completely misguided. Most of the restrictions in the Brady ban were based on misconceptions that, as far as I can tell, primarily came from TV and movies. To believe that many of those restrictions made any sort of rational sense is to believe that firearms work in ways that they assuredly do not work.

I think it's more important to focus on behavior rather than implements. I prefer lunatic control over gun control, but it seems that nobody with any influence is really willing to talk about that. Anti-gun types are hung up on high-capacity magazines and cosmetics, while the other side seems to think that while unlimited access to guns is a god-given right, increased access to [mental] healthcare is a horrible atrocity that would have made Stalin, Hitler, and Pol Pot have trouble sleeping at night. That's to say nothing of the idea of maybe making it a little -- just a little -- harder to buy 6000 rounds of ammo without anyone taking even a cursory interest in your "hobby".

25 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 6:33:27pm

re: #17 Destro

It was illegal to own this kind of weapon used here until the assulat ban ended.

No it wasn't. The Smith & Wesson M&P used here would have been easily made in compliance with the AWB. Real Assault Rifles have been illegal to own with out registration since 1934.

26 Stanghazi  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 6:35:04pm

My Dad is very pro-gun, grew up around em, he taught me how to handle safely. So, I'm not classified as anti gun.

BUT. There is a limit where some punk ass pissed off kid can acquire a set up that the Syrian rebels would envy.

27 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 6:36:48pm

re: #25 William Barnett-Lewis

No it wasn't. The Smith & Wesson M&P used here would have been easily made in compliance with the AWB. Real Assault Rifles have been illegal to own with out registration since 1934.

I hadn't heard that it was an S&W. Gander Mountain has that on sale too.
These rounds cause terrible wounds at short range. This would have been a ghastly scene.

28 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 6:37:08pm

re: #21 goddamnedfrank

Purchase new, not own. The Federal AWB wasn't retroactive and never applied to sales of used guns.

Actually "post ban" rifles with name changes & only slight cosmetic differences were easy to buy within a month of the law going into effect. It was written very badly by people who didn't know diddly about guns and didn't want to learn.

29 Four More Tears  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 6:38:23pm

re: #23 Shiplord Kirel

Holmes bought the guns at Gander Mountain Sports and Outdoors.

This is their current ad for the Colt AR-15 carbine. You can buy this over the net too, though Holmes apparently got his in the store. There are several other AR type rifles in their ad.

And yet it's ads for TDKR that have been pulled...

30 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 6:38:32pm

re: #27 Shiplord Kirel

I hadn't heard that it was an S&W. Gander Mountain has that on sale too.
These rounds cause terrible wounds at short range. This would have been a ghastly scene.

I read it earlier today, I think, at NPR. The 5.56 is not a weapon to trifle with.

31 dragonfire1981  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 6:42:04pm

Christopher Nolan Statement

“Speaking on behalf of the cast and crew of The Dark Knight Rises, I would like to express our profound sorrow at the senseless tragedy that has befallen the entire Aurora community.

I would not presume to know anything about the victims of the shooting, but that they were there last night to watch a movie. I believe movies are one of the great American art forms and the shared experience of watching a story unfold on screen is an important and joyful pastime.

The movie theatre is my home, and the idea that someone would violate that innocent and hopeful place in such an unbearably savage way is devastating to me. Nothing any of us can say could ever adequately express our feelings for the innocent victims of this appalling crime, but our thoughts are with them and their families.”

Perfect, now Chris, do us all a favor and teach our politicians how to be as classy.

32 Kragar  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 6:42:22pm

re: #3 Charles Johnson

A few of the victims weren't shot, but were killed in the chaos.

And Gohmert thinks if people in the audience had guns, it would have turned out great.

33 dragonfire1981  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 6:42:46pm

re: #30 William Barnett-Lewis

I read it earlier today, I think, at NPR. The 5.56 is not a weapon to trifle with.

NO GUN is a weapon to trifle with. Guns aren't toys and should ALWAYS be treated with respect.

34 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 6:42:50pm

re: #30 William Barnett-Lewis

I read it earlier today, I think, at NPR. The 5.56 is not a weapon to trifle with.

Nor is the 12ga. A report I heard stated that he was carrying a Remington 870 as well.

35 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 6:43:37pm

"Assault rifle" doesn't bother me, and I do understand the distinctions. It's become a general term for military-style semi- or full-auto rifles. A category with many subcategories.

Unfortunately.

36 Destro  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 6:44:08pm

re: #24 Temporarily Embarrassed Millionaire

I'm perhaps a bit more strongly "pro-2nd Amendment" than a lot of people with whom I share opinions in general, but there are a lot of places I think the laws regarding ownership could be tightened up significantly without undue imposition on anyone's liberty. The "gun show loophole" for one thing, as well as the completely legal undocumented transfer of weapons between private individuals (which I suppose are actually the same thing, now that I think about it). I think the FFL regs are pretty good to the extent that they're enforced, and I am leaning towards the idea that unlicensed sale should be done away with. It's a huge can of worms, to be sure.

That said, bans on specific types of weapons are completely misguided. Most of the restrictions in the Brady ban were based on misconceptions that, as far as I can tell, primarily came from TV and movies. To believe that many of those restrictions made any sort of rational sense is to believe that firearms work in ways that they assuredly do not work.

I think it's more important to focus on behavior rather than implements. I prefer lunatic control over gun control, but it seems that nobody with any influence is really willing to talk about that. Anti-gun types are hung up on high-capacity magazines and cosmetics, while the other side seems to think that while unlimited access to guns is a god-given right, increased access to [mental] healthcare is a horrible atrocity that would have made Stalin, Hitler, and Pol Pot have trouble sleeping at night. That's to say nothing of the idea of maybe making it a little -- just a little -- harder to buy 6000 rounds of ammo without anyone taking even a cursory interest in your "hobby".

This guy thus would have not been tagged a lunatic under your view of how such a law would function:

One of James Holmes former instructors at the University of California-Riverside told The Huffington Post that Holmes was exceptionally smart, competent with complicated science.

Hongxia Wang said Holmes worked with him in a project doing complex oligonucleotide separation through a process called high-performance liquid chromatography. Oligonucleotides are essential for gene therapy.
Hongxia, in an email, described Holmes as a motivated young student, who apparently took a dramatic turn towards darkness.
"He was a smart guy and a quick learner. He asked a lot of questions when I taught him how to use HPLC, which was good because he was thinking actively. As a result, he was able to use it well, independantly and very quickly." Hongxia said. "This is impressive, compared to other undergraduates I worked with before."

"I had a great time working together with him," Wang said. "As for personality, he was nice, easy-going and liked to share his opinions with others."

37 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 6:45:22pm

re: #28 William Barnett-Lewis

Actually "post ban" rifles with name changes & only slight cosmetic differences were easy to buy within a month of the law going into effect. It was written very badly by people who didn't know diddly about guns and didn't want to learn.

There are always going to be enterprising people who develop work arounds. The current california AWB has led to the bullet button glove, because the rule is that magazine can't be removable without a "tool." Look at how much practical difference that makes to reload time:

39 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 6:49:23pm

re: #36 Destro

This guy thus would have not been tagged a lunatic under your view of how such a law would function:

I didn't state any criteria for identifying lunatics.

This is not a problem with simple solutions. We can't abide a "Minority Report" society that jails people for things they might theoretically do in the future (although in certain situations we're dangerously close to that anyway).

And there are already something like 270 million guns in private ownership in the US. If you want to know what complete prohibition would accomplish, you need look no further than the "war on drugs".

40 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 7:04:48pm

This evening's tinkering in the kitchen paid off handsomely. Jerked chicken, red beans and brown basmatti rice, greek salad. What wasn't bought was grown. Net cost: about 15 bucks for a week's work of delicious dinners.

41 Destro  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 7:05:13pm

re: #39 Temporarily Embarrassed Millionaire

I didn't state any criteria for identifying lunatics.

This is not a problem with simple solutions. We can't abide a "Minority Report" society that jails people for things they might theoretically do in the future (although in certain situations we're dangerously close to that anyway).

And there are already something like 270 million guns in private ownership in the US. If you want to know what complete prohibition would accomplish, you need look no further than the "war on drugs".

It is clear you account for the guns in laws to limit their possessions and not try to account for human psyches.

42 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 7:06:45pm

re: #36 Destro

This guy thus would have not been tagged a lunatic under your view of how such a law would function:

The shooter's Mom didn't sound the least bit surprised:

According to ABC News, a San Diego woman identifying herself as James Holmes’ mother, Arlene, spoke briefly with the news crew Friday morning.

The woman had awoken unaware of the news of the shooting and had not been contacted by authorities. She immediately expressed concern that her son may have been involved.

"You have the right person,” the mother said, speaking on instinct. “I need to call the police,” she added. “I need to fly out to Colorado.”

If she'd acted on her instincts and sought an involuntary commitment at least he wouldn't have been able to legally acquire the arms cache.

43 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 7:17:03pm

re: #42 goddamnedfrank

The shooter's Mom didn't sound the least bit surprised:

If she'd acted on her instincts and sought an involuntary commitment at least he wouldn't have been able to legally acquire the arms cache.

It's damn near impossible to get some one committed though. We went from one extreme to it's opposite in that respect. In California, IIUC, only a medical professional or LEO can petition the court for commitment - not a parent.

44 JamesWI  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 7:20:49pm

LGF readers in Wisconsin may be getting these political ads for Mark Neumann, who is running for the Republican candidacy for the Senate (as Herb Kohl is retiring).

All of the ads are as follows: "(name of person) Endorses Mark Neumann!" So far, the people I've seen in that spot: Jim DeMint, Erick Erickson, Rand Paul, Pat Toomey.

LOL... as if I needed extra reasons not to vote for this man....

45 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 7:22:44pm

Sigh...I'm being audited by the IRS and only have until the 26th to provide the "requested" documents.

No, I'm not at all worried, I have no questionable deductions or write-offs, if anything I probably have paid too much.

Yes, I am very pissed that they have given me only a week to provide documentation that will require digging through many old files and probably getting some missing documentation copies faxed to me from the original creators of said documents.

Lucky me, the computer apparently pulled my name out of the hat when it decided who to audit this year... :(

46 Renaissance_Man  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 7:26:20pm

re: #39 Temporarily Embarrassed Millionaire

I didn't state any criteria for identifying lunatics.

This is not a problem with simple solutions. We can't abide a "Minority Report" society that jails people for things they might theoretically do in the future (although in certain situations we're dangerously close to that anyway).

And there are already something like 270 million guns in private ownership in the US. If you want to know what complete prohibition would accomplish, you need look no further than the "war on drugs".

Sadly, it is a problem with no solutions. The US has worshipped firearms for too long and too fervently to effectively solve this issue. This massacre will be no different from the others, which will be no different from the ones you haven't heard of, which will be no different from the thousands more deaths that occur in ones and twos that aren't even worth a headline, because America is so accepting of them. In other words, there will be a few days of anger and hand-wringing, and nothing will change. Because as a country, the US has accepted that these deaths and injuries are okay, as long as the religion of the gun goes untouched.

47 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 7:26:31pm

Like Brevik, the shooter is alive and, like him, will not be able to shut up about his accomplishment. There's no need for a quick and dirty resolution.
Nothing significant will come of it because American politics is not sensitive to domestic body counts

48 boredtechindenver  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 7:28:33pm

So if the paper and TV stations are reporting that the booby trap contains a "tangle of wires, trip wires, jars full of liquid and things resembling mortar rounds", I don't think the strictest gun control laws would have stopped him from getting his weapons.

49 Velvet Elvis  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 7:38:18pm

re: #48 boredtechindenver

So if the paper and TV stations are reporting that the booby trap contains a "tangle of wires, trip wires, jars full of liquid and things resembling mortar rounds", I don't think the strictest gun control laws would have stopped him from getting his weapons.

I pretty much had explosives figured out by the time I got out of high school. Making them is easy. Deploying them is hard. He might have made them and set them up the way he thought they were supposed to work but if they actually would have worked the way he intended is anybody's guess. That's why they cleared out the whole apartment complex, just to be safe.

50 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 7:55:55pm

Testing something...

#!/bin/bash

while getopts ":v" OPTION; do
	case $OPTION in
		v) VERBOSE=1;;
	esac
done

if [ $VERBOSE ]; then
	echo "You are quite verbose."
fi
51 Ojoe  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 7:57:11pm
52 freetoken  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 7:57:45pm

re: #50 Charles Johnson

Anytime I see a "while" and a "case" on one line I know I'm in trouble.

53 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 7:57:47pm

re: #34 Temporarily Embarrassed Millionaire

Nor is the 12ga. A report I heard stated that he was carrying a Remington 870 as well.

Those are very common and legal pretty much everywhere. Even in Chicago one can get a permit to own a Remington 870.

54 Stanghazi  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 7:59:08pm

re: #51 Ojoe

Towercam sunset, in case you need a sanity break.

Really glad you're back Ojoe. Missed the towercams et al.

55 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 8:00:45pm

re: #54 Stanley Sea

How'd the move go?

56 Ojoe  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 8:01:39pm

re: #54 Stanley Sea

Thanks. Architecture is picking up a tiny bit so I'm in the office some more, and driving trucks less.

57 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 8:05:42pm

re: #41 Destro

It is clear you account for the guns in laws to limit their possessions and not try to account for human psyches.

One problem with that is that it involves increased government scrutiny, and in America that tends to be unwelcome. Mostly because any government screening office, being staffed by human beings, will occasionally fail, and deny a permit to someone who should have a given permitted thing, or approve a permit for someone who should not have that same thing.

The second point, relating to firearms specifically, is the Supreme Court's Heller vs District of Columbia ruling, which held that firearms ownership is an individual right protected by the Constitution, a right MacDonald vs. Chicago confirmed is binding on the states as well. Imposing restrictions on a constitutional right is a fairly dicey business.

58 Ojoe  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 8:06:43pm

You know, the argument about the basic reason for the 2nd amendment I understand well, and to keep an armed citizenry for the political reason to prevent, in the long run, government tyranny, it is only necessary to have a certain number of single shot, bolt action, powerful enough rifles with scopes out there in responsible private hands.

Semi-automatics with big magazines, well you don't need them for that.

59 Stanghazi  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 8:06:53pm

re: #55 Dancing along the light of day

How'd the move go?

Oh my! Thanks for asking Floral! It went fine, got a couple of bruises on my arms, since the unload was all us. Dang my dining room bulk of a table! The load was way easier, since I paid for those peeps. My condo is beeeeautiful. But I have like 8 boxes (that you said I should've chucked, but didn't) that are either garage sale or trash. Got to get them out of here & I'll be perfect.

60 Ojoe  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 8:09:15pm

re: #43 William Barnett-Lewis

It's damn near impossible to get some one committed though. We went from one extreme to it's opposite in that respect. In California, IIUC, only a medical professional or LEO can petition the court for commitment - not a parent.

Laura's law might have helped.

61 Stanghazi  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 8:11:50pm

re: #55 Dancing along the light of day

How'd the move go?

Going to a wedding tomorrow nite at the Park Plaza Hotel in LA Staying at the Millennium Biltmore in LA

Should be a nice weekend?

62 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 8:12:07pm

re: #53 Dark_Falcon

Those are very common and legal pretty much everywhere. Even in Chicago one can get a permit to own a Remington 870.

My point, which I did not at all state clearly, was that shotguns are every bit as devastating as (and arguably more than) any "assault rifle", despite being a common bird-hunting weapon that anti-gun activists always say they're not trying to ban.

Apparently, if you remove the walnut stock and forearm and replace them with black glass-filled nylon, the weapons instantly become over 9000% more lethal and sinister.

63 freetoken  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 8:12:41pm

while (isAlive(you) {

switch (isRepublican(you)) {

case votedFor(Bachmann): begForForgiveness();

break;

case votedFor(Gohmert): hangHeadInShame();

break;

default: registerAsDem();

break;

}

}

64 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 8:13:35pm

re: #62 Temporarily Embarrassed Millionaire

My point, which I did not at all state clearly, was that shotguns are every bit as devastating as (and arguably more than) any "assault rifle", despite being a common bird-hunting weapon that anti-gun activists always say they're not trying to ban.

Apparently, if you remove the walnut stock and forearm and replace them with black glass-filled nylon, the weapons instantly become over 9000% more lethal and sinister.

I know and I agree with you, now that I understand what you were trying to say.

65 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 8:18:32pm

re: #63 freetoken

while (isAlive(you) {

switch (isRepublican(you)) {

case votedFor(Bachmann): begForForgiveness();

break;

case votedFor(Gohmert): hangHeadInShame();

break;

default: registerAsDem();

break;

}

}

post63.sh: closing paren expected

66 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 8:19:41pm

re: #60 Ojoe

Laura's law might have helped.

The problem is that laws like that are highly unpopular in Far West states like Colorado and Arizona. Most people there see mental health or gun laws as eroding their freedom and oppose them on saidsame grounds.

67 freetoken  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 8:20:03pm

re: #65 Temporarily Embarrassed Millionaire

post63.sh: closing paren expected

It was there when I started!

68 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 8:20:05pm

re: #50 Charles Johnson

Line numbers!

69 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 8:20:55pm

Floral, I didn't see you last night, so I was unable to supply with the large stockpile of Cute that I found.

70 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 8:21:40pm

re: #66 Dark_Falcon

The problem is that laws like that are highly unpopular in Far West states like Colorado and Arizona. Most people there see mental health or gun laws as eroding their freedom and oppose them on saidsame grounds.

It doesn't get much further west than California. Just sayin'.

71 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 8:30:07pm

new programming jargon

I have extensive first-hand experience with items 6, 8, 16, 18, 20, and 27.

72 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 8:34:22pm

re: #70 SanFranciscoZionist

It doesn't get much further west than California. Just sayin'.

The author of the article I linked to, Colin Woodard, divides California into parts of three of what I'm going to call Culture blocs: El Norte (which is much of SoCal), The Left Coast (which starts north of LA but includes San Francisco on its way up to Vancouver), and the Far West (which is inland central and northern California).

In California, the El Norte and Left Coast blocs have most of the population the population, so they set the tone for the state. But while Arizona has a strong El Norte element, both it and Colorado are dominated by a Far West culture that does not like government interference. It's paragon exemplar was Arizona Senator Barry Goldwater.

73 DeepBlue  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 8:35:25pm

Why isn't gun insurance mandatory? Let the markets decide what the cost of this should be.

74 freetoken  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 8:38:33pm

re: #73 DeepBlue

Heh, I'd be all for requiring personal liability insurance for each gun-owner, but the NRA would be screaming 2ND AMENDMENT!!

75 DeepBlue  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 8:46:44pm

Even pro-gun interpretations of 2nd amendment don't preclude gun-insurance. Pro-responsibility, pro-business, pro-wealthy, I'd think people could get behind this. You don't have to register your guns, you just have to show proof of gun-insurance to the seller of the gun and/or the seller of bullets. Their responsibility to keep track. No government involvement. When a crime is committed, the government asks: "Who sold these weapons to & what gun insurance did they have & the seller has to step forward. If they don't & they're caught, they're jailed & responsible.

76 prairiefire  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 8:50:11pm

re: #59 Stanley Sea

Congratulations! Now you can spread out and take root. : )

77 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 8:55:12pm

re: #73 DeepBlue

Why isn't gun insurance mandatory? Let the markets decide what the cost of this should be.

Because cars are not mentioned by the Constitution*, while 'arms' (which has always been read to mostly be referring to firearms) are so mentioned. A Constitutional right is not a thing that can be tied to insurance, while driving, not being mentioned in the Constitution, can be. The critical doctrine here is that of Negative Liberty or the idea that that which the Constitution does not forbid is left up to the federal state governments to decide. An example: In 1997 the Supreme Court decided that the Constitution was silent on whether states could prohibit cross-party 'fusion' endorsements, thus leaving the issue of whether to permit or prohibit such endorsements up to the individual states to decide. Illinois, Wisconsin, and Minnesota quickly banned such endorsements, and the ACORN-aligned# left-wing party in those states (the New Party) quickly withered). New York, by contrast, still permits such endorsements and its ACORN-aligned party (the Working Families Party) remains a going concern.

*: This is logical, since the automobile had not been invented when the Constitution was written.
#: I am using the two ACORN aligned parties to make a point about a concept of English Law, not to make a point about ACORN itself. That those parties were allied with the late ACORN is simply what they had in common, and their political views are not the subject of this post.

78 DeepBlue  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 9:05:06pm

re: #77 Dark_Falcon

Bullshit. Any legal interpretation of the 2nd amendment, even the recent SC one still allows for reasonable limitations on gun ownership. I am not a lawyer but I think the only thing that's been recently asserted is that outright bans are perhaps unconstitutional. I'm not going to bother to debate faith-based perceptions of gun-ownership and these angels on the head of a pin distinctions about whether or not an AK-15 with a huge clip that can fire at faster than 1/sec is an assault weapon or not. Whatever. I assert that gun-owners need to have coverage to pay for their responsibility. They're not. You're arguing for the optimality of the status quo. It's not. You lose. People died. They lose. We lose.

79 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 9:11:00pm

re: #78 DeepBlue

Bullshit. Any legal interpretation of the 2nd amendment, even the recent SC one still allows for reasonable limitations on gun ownership. I am not a lawyer but I think the only thing that's been recently asserted is that outright bans are perhaps unconstitutional. I'm not going to bother to debate faith-based perceptions of gun-ownership and these angels on the head of a pin distinctions about whether or not an AK-15 with a huge clip that can fire at faster than 1/sec is an assault weapon or not. Whatever. I assert that gun-owners need to have coverage to pay for their responsibility. They're not. You're arguing for the optimality of the status quo. It's not. You lose. People died. They lose. We lose.

It would not pass any statehouse, since it would limit gun ownership too drastically. You'd need to be fairly well-off to afford the kind of liability insurance that is required of armed guards (many of whom work for large corporations that get a discount for buying large numbers of such policies).

80 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 9:11:55pm

re: #78 DeepBlue

And I also do not consider a require for expensive liability insurance a 'reasonable' restriction.

81 DeepBlue  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 9:13:49pm

(2) Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose: For example, concealed weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the Amendment or state analogues. The Court’s opinion should not be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms. Miller’s holding that the sorts of weapons protected are those “in common use at the time” finds support in the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of dangerous and unusual weapons. Pp. 54–56.

82 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 9:15:40pm

re: #81 DeepBlue

(2) Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose: For example, concealed weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the Amendment or state analogues. The Court’s opinion should not be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms. Miller’s holding that the sorts of weapons protected are those “in common use at the time” finds support in the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of dangerous and unusual weapons. Pp. 54–56.

The points made in this post are not contested by me. Indeed, I have never argued against them.

83 DeepBlue  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 9:17:28pm

re: #80 Dark_Falcon

You change framing here from 'Constitutional' arguments to Personal 'I also do not consider'. Whatever again. I say reasonable & constitutional.

What exactly are you arguing for? You think the current situation is good?

Here's what I think the NRA Plan is... More events just like Aurora until at one of these events 1 or more people in the audience also have guns & then there's an even bigger mess when multiple people are shooting at the same time. I guess this all leads to more gun sales & gun fetish. Enjoy.

84 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jul 20, 2012 9:33:51pm

re: #82 Dark_Falcon

Why did you downding #82, Deep Blue. I was agreeing with you on that one.


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