Minifying Javascript With the Google Closure Compiler API

Honey, I shrunk the codes
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Javascript via Shutterstock

The dirty secret of these tech posts is that I often write them for myself, because they help me organize my thoughts; sometimes the process of making it simple enough and abstract enough to post about on LGF even suggests improvements to programming techniques.

And believe it or not I got an email today from someone saying they wished I’d do more of them. So that’s pretty much all the excuse I need to launch into another tech/programming article that can be treated as an open thread by the non-programmers amongst us.

A while back I wrote an article titled Tech Note: Minifying Javascript Quickly and Easily, about the method I used to compress and “minify” our Javascript files before sending them out over the interwebs.

This method has evolved quite a bit, and now LGF uses the Google Closure Compiler to perform this compression, because it does a vastly better job than the outdated minifier we were using, and also has some simple syntax checking.

If the old minifier failed in some way, it used to happily create a bad Javascript file, and you found out when you loaded the page and there was no Javascript working at all. The Closure Compiler exits gracefully with an error, a line number, and a useful message about why it failed.

There are several ways to use the Closure Compiler — as a simple web application, as a Java application that you install on a server, or as a web API using the REST protocol. This bit of nerd doggerel I’m about to foist on you shows how to use the RESTful API to generate a minified version of one Javascript file, with a Linux bash script that you execute on your server after making changes to the Javascript code.

This code sends the web URL of a Javascript file to the Closure compiler, then saves the returned minified code on your server and moves it into place with a safe rename command, so no one gets caught loading it in mid-change.

The paths and filenames are generalized here — if you use the code, fill in the proper values, then save it wherever you put your bash scripts and give it executable permissions. I use the command name lgfj for our version at LGF, to make typing easy.

To start with, we set the working directory to the path where our Javascript files are located and print out a warm, fuzzy welcome message.

#!/bin/bash

cd /path/to/javascript/files/

echo -e "\nJavascript Minifier (API version)\n"
echo "Minifying test.js with Closure Compiler..."

In order to pass the web address of a Javascript file to the Closure Compiler’s API, we need to “URL-encode” it, which means to replace some characters with special codes. We’ll use Perl’s URI::Escape module for this.

And there’s a lurking gotcha that I discovered when first working with this script: Google’s API can’t always tell when you’ve changed the code, and will use a cached version to speed things up. Since we’re only running this after we’ve made a change, we never want this behavior. So we use a simple method to force Google not to cache the file: we append the Linux date value to the Javascript file’s URL as a query string. Since this value increases every second, it changes every time we use it — so our Javascript file will always look like a different file to Google.

All this happens in the following somewhat gnarly looking line of code. The result is stored in the variable $URL.

URL=$(echo "http://yourdomain.com/js/test.js?"$(date +%s) | perl -MURI::Escape -lne 'print uri_escape($_)')

OK, now we do the actual deed and call the Closure Compiler’s API, by using Linux’s curl command with the -d flag that tells it to use the POST method. See the docs for more info on the parameters in the query string.

The resulting minified code is then written out to the file test.min.tmp.js.

curl -d "output_info=compiled_code&output_format=text&compilation_level=SIMPLE_OPTIMIZATIONS&code_url=$URL" 'http://closure-compiler.appspot.com/compile' > test.min.tmp.js

Now we set the file’s owner to whatever is appropriate, and safely move the minified file into place by renaming test.min.tmp.js to test.min.js.

echo "Creating lgf.min.js..."

chown username test.min.tmp.js
mv -f test.min.tmp.js test.min.js

echo "Completed."

Done! But let’s also share some information about what just happened. These concluding lines show the file sizes of the original Javascript file and the minified version, and the amount saved by the minification process.

OSIZE=$(stat -c%s test.js)
MSIZE=$(stat -c%s test.min.js)
echo -e "Original size: "$(printf "%'d\n" $OSIZE)" bytes"
echo -e "Minified size: "$(printf "%'d\n" $MSIZE)" bytes"
echo -e "Saved:         "$(printf "%'d\n" $(($OSIZE - $MSIZE)))" bytes\n"

Here’s the whole thing in one piece:

#!/bin/bash

cd /path/to/javascript/files/

echo -e "\nJavascript Minifier (API version)\n"
echo "Minifying test.js with Closure Compiler..."

URL=$(echo "http://yourdomain.com/js/test.js?"$(date +%s) | perl -MURI::Escape -lne 'print uri_escape($_)')

curl -d "output_info=compiled_code&output_format=text&compilation_level=SIMPLE_OPTIMIZATIONS&code_url=$URL" 'http://closure-compiler.appspot.com/compile' > test.min.tmp.js

echo "Creating lgf.min.js..."

chown username test.min.tmp.js
mv -f test.min.tmp.js test.min.js

echo "Completed."

OSIZE=$(stat -c%s test.js)
MSIZE=$(stat -c%s test.min.js)
echo -e "Original size: "$(printf "%'d\n" $OSIZE)" bytes"
echo -e "Minified size: "$(printf "%'d\n" $MSIZE)" bytes"
echo -e "Saved:         "$(printf "%'d\n" $(($OSIZE - $MSIZE)))" bytes\n"

You can also use the Closure Compiler API to compress and combine a series of Javascript files into one big file, which can save even more loading time, but that’s a subject for another nerdy nerd thread.

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316 comments
1 freetoken  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 5:14:05pm
curl -d

Hmmm... seems last time I had to deal with curls was in E&M class...

[Link: quizlet.com...]

2 erik_t  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 5:16:43pm

re: #1 freetoken

Hmmm... seems last time I had to deal with curls was in E&M class...

[Link: quizlet.com...]

Last time I had to deal with curls was with a broom, on a pebbled sheet, in front of the rock, at the club.

3 researchok  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 5:20:42pm

There is no Rosetta Stone translation available.

CJ, I see a niche market.

4 Targetpractice  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 5:22:16pm

I tried feeding this post through the universal translator, but it start spouting magic smoke 1/3 of the way through.

5 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 5:23:19pm

re: #4 Targetpractice

My head is spinning from all of the tech speak.

6 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 5:29:01pm

You are teaching us about this stuff, and teaching is often the best learning. Makes us break it down in our heads differently. I think almost any subject works like that. Kung Fu is certainly like that. Math too.

7 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 5:30:45pm

I admit, this was also an excuse to test some new tweaks to our fancy code formatter.

8 SpaceJesus  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 5:36:30pm

does this make the computer turn on faster? i'm lost

9 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 5:37:24pm

re: #8 SpaceJesus

does this make the computer turn on faster? i'm lost

It makes the web pages at LGF load faster.

10 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 5:37:40pm

See, I could have just said that to begin with.

11 erik_t  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 5:38:44pm

re: #8 SpaceJesus

does this make the computer turn on faster? i'm lost

The files are inside the computer!?

12 wrenchwench  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 5:39:04pm

re: #10 Charles Johnson

See, I could have just said that to begin with.

Never discuss a feature without pointing out the benefit.

--Dale Carnegie

13 darthstar  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 5:52:40pm
14 Randall Gross  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 6:01:33pm

Hang on Little Tomato, thanks for playing that, I went out and got a copy after seeing it in the sidebar and listening.

15 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 6:01:38pm

Yet another contemporary source found that disputes Romney's version of when he left Bain and how thorough that departure was:

However, a story in the Aug. 23, 2001 Provo (Utah) Daily Herald tells quite a different story.

PROVO -- SLOC president Mitt Romney has joined a group trying to buy the Boston Red Sox, perhaps unwittingly.

Citing unnamed sources, the Boston Globe reported Thursday that the investment firm Bain Capital, which Romney founded, has joined a group headed by television producer Tom Werner bidding to purchase the storied baseball club.

Romney, 54, announced this week that he had stepped down as CEO of Bain Capital and had surrendered his controlling stock in the company. However, he remains one of 27 partners and investors in the company, one of the nation's largest private equity firms with more than $12 billion under management.

16 erik_t  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 6:12:27pm

re: #15 goddamnedfrank

I have lots of friends who own Major League teams!

17 darthstar  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 6:17:07pm

re: #15 goddamnedfrank

Yet another contemporary source found that disputes Romney's version of when he left Bain and how thorough that departure was:

He was busy with the olympics, and thought he'd just sent Ann back to Boston to get him some more hose to match his slacks.

18 freetoken  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 6:21:52pm

Mullah Mohler tries to come up with something in response to the Aurora shootings, but ends up just rephrasing the Theodicy problem, without answering it:

The Dark Night in Denver – Groping for Answers

[...]

Christians know that God is sovereign, and that nothing is outside of his control. We also know that he allows evil to exist, and human beings to commit moral atrocities. We cannot allow the sovereignty of God to be denied and evil allowed its independent existence. Nor can we deny the reality of evil and the horror of its threat to be lessened. We are reminded that evil can be answered only by a cross.

Theologian Henri Blocher explains this truth vividly in these words:

"Evil is conquered as evil because God turns it back upon itself. He makes the supreme crime, the murder of the only righteous person, the very operation that abolishes sin. The maneuver is utterly unprecedented. No more complete victory could be imagined. God responds in the indirect way that is perfectly suited to the ambiguity of evil. He entraps the deceiver in his own wiles. Evil, like a judoist, takes advantage of the power of good, which it perverts; the Lord, like a supreme champion, replies by using the very grip of the opponent."

Oh, how nice, the Mullah will not allow us to deny the "sovereignty of God"!

And his quote of the theologian... is just a lot of words. Essentially, what it says is that because someone was crucified 1980-some years ago the shootings in Aurora are ok. Hardly a real answer.

19 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 6:24:57pm
President Obama’s re-election campaign is attempting to compare presumptive Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney to the villain in the new Batman movie, “The Dark Knight Rises,” which was partially filmed in Pittsburgh.

WTF is this shit? With zero basis to make the claim, not a single citation or bit of evidence to back it up they're going to ascribe Limbaugh's insanity to the Obama campaign. Totally fucking hack journalism.

20 William of Orange  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 6:30:16pm

Charles,

I have absolutely no idea of what you're talking about. As long as my internet is working, I'm fine. I guess I missed the boat when it comes to understanding the build up of a site. But the most useful feedback I can send you is that the LGF pages are loading much faster now! I sometimes had to wait more than 20 seconds before all the scripts were loaded, the only thing I hated about the site.

Nevertheless, I think what you did was a major improvement in the enjoyment of this site!

21 dragonfire1981  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 6:40:31pm

re: #14 Randall Gross

Hang on Little Tomato, thanks for playing that, I went out and got a copy after seeing it in the sidebar and listening.

How the heck do you listen to the stuff on the sidebar? I have never figured it out.

22 dragonfire1981  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 6:41:21pm

re: #19 goddamnedfrank

WTF is this shit? With zero basis to make the claim, not a single citation or bit of evidence to back it up they're going to ascribe Limbaugh's insanity to the Obama campaign. Totally fucking hack journalism.

I think it's an unfair comparison. Bane doesn't switch sides five times during the movie.

23 Big Joe  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 6:42:00pm

re: #19 goddamnedfrank

WTF is this shit? With zero basis to make the claim, not a single citation or bit of evidence to back it up they're going to ascribe Limbaugh's insanity to the Obama campaign. Totally fucking hack journalism.

Image: 52-sense-this-picture-makes-none.jpg

24 jaunte  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 6:56:48pm

Skateboarder 'Jumped by Blacks' Actually Hit a Wall

An avid skateboarder who said "four to five unknown black males" mugged him in a parking lot actually smacked his head against a concrete wall, the Miami Herald reports. Rene Betancourt, 22, was found with a broken skull and hospitalized for two weeks in Miami while detectives searched for his assailants. In the end they found a parking lot surveillance video—of Betancourt knocking himself out cold while attempting a skateboarding move.

Maybe he knows Dan Riehl.

25 Gus  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 6:58:57pm

re: #19 goddamnedfrank

WTF is this shit? With zero basis to make the claim, not a single citation or bit of evidence to back it up they're going to ascribe Limbaugh's insanity to the Obama campaign. Totally fucking hack journalism.

They're basically repeating what Rush Limbaugh said. No doubt it's written for the disgruntled old white guys that live in western Pennsylvania (i.e. Pennsyltucky).

26 erik_t  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 6:59:17pm

re: #24 jaunte

Skateboarder 'Jumped by Blacks' Actually Hit a Wall

Maybe he knows Dan Riehl.

He probably meant to report being 'jumped by bricks'. Damn you, autocorrect!

27 darthstar  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 6:59:59pm

re: #26 erik_t

He probably meant to report being 'jumped by bricks'. Damn you, autocorrect!

win

28 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 7:06:13pm

re: #26 erik_t

He probably meant to report being 'jumped by bricks'. Damn you, autocorrect!

I really hate it when I'm jumped by inanimate objects.

You have no idea how aggressive chocolate can be.

29 darthstar  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 7:09:39pm

re: #28 Mostly sane, most of the time.

I really hate it when I'm jumped by inanimate objects.

You have no idea how aggressive chocolate can be.

If you think chocolate is bad, try letting bourbon into your house.

30 erik_t  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 7:11:00pm

re: #29 darthstar

If you think chocolate is bad, try letting bourbon into your house.

Every time it happens, I have to undertake a concerted effort to get rid of all of the bourbon.

31 darthstar  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 7:12:15pm

re: #30 erik_t

Every time it happens, I have to undertake a concerted effort to get rid of all of the bourbon.

Me too, but my wonderful wife sides with the bourbon and continues to re-stock our cabinet. God I married well.

32 freetoken  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 7:15:56pm

re: #28 Mostly sane, most of the time.

You have no idea how aggressive chocolate can be.

I do.

33 erik_t  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 7:16:11pm

re: #31 darthstar

The liver is the enemy, and it must be punished.

34 darthstar  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 7:38:04pm

If you ask me, that Shirlie Blackburn looks like a slut.

35 darthstar  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 7:38:48pm

re: #33 erik_t

The liver is the enemy, and it must be punished.

The bladder is your ally, unless you're driving a long distance.

36 darthstar  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 7:40:23pm

Shirley, not Shirlie...sorry Mittbot.

37 Targetpractice  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 7:41:56pm

re: #36 darthstar

Shirley, not Shirlie...sorry Mittbot.

Surely you jest!

38 darthstar  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 7:42:26pm

re: #37 Targetpractice

Surely you jest!

Don't call me surely.

39 Gus  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 8:07:02pm

re: #34 darthstar

If you ask me, that Shirlie Blackburn looks like a slut.

[Embedded content]

This is no laughing matter! The future of our country is at stake!!11ty

//

40 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 8:10:35pm

Gah. Every time I try a Linux it's always been long enough since the last time that I forget the subtle ways it differs from traditional Unixen. This version (Xubuntu 12.04) is quite good really and it did recognise all my hardware (even the 16 bit PCMCIA wireless card) but having to apt-get a package before the compiler will work right just isn't the way it should be ;) Got AlephOne to compile after that though so at least there are the bad aliens on the Marathon to go shoot later tonight LOL.

It's fun to get a decade old laptop back in service.

41 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 8:12:31pm

re: #19 goddamnedfrank

WTF is this shit? With zero basis to make the claim, not a single citation or bit of evidence to back it up they're going to ascribe Limbaugh's insanity to the Obama campaign. Totally fucking hack journalism.

Having seen The Dark Knight Rises today, I can tell you Mitt Romney is neither Bruce Wayne nor any of the antagonists he faces in any of Chris Nolan's Batman. Mitt does not have to Joker's appetite for violence and destruction, and does have genuine emotional connection to his family. But more on point is that Mitt Romney does not have the pain and anger felt by Wayne/Batman as well as by Ras al Gul* and Bane. He does not feel such pain or have had such anger because he's never had reason to. He doesn't feel anger at American society, it's worked out just fine for Mitt and his family. Thus he will never put it all on the line like those characters do, because he seeks to keep what he has.

*: See the movie to find out why I mention al Gul, I'm not going to drop a spoiler.

42 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 8:18:21pm

But whatever else is true, Mitt Romney did give a good speech about the rampage in Denver. It was a very Christian speech, too, though not in my mind heavy-handedly so.

An excerpt from the article linked to above:

Romney, who was the head of a Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints congregation in Boston, quoted heavily from the Bible and the Book of Mormon as he stood before a small crowd in New Hampshire.

Romney calls for unity following Colorado shooting

"We can offer comfort to someone near us who is suffering or heavy laden," he said, a reference to the Gospel of Matthew where Jesus tells a crowd, "Come to me all ye who are heavy laden and I will give you rest, for my yoke is easy and my burden is light."

Romney continued, "And we can mourn with those who mourn in Colorado." That phrase "mourn with those who mourn" is found in the New Testament and is also found in the Book of Mormon.

"Our prayer is that the comforter might bring the peace to their souls that surpasses understanding," he said, evoking the Apostle Paul in his letter to the Philippians.

Romney also left no doubt about his source material in his next line when he said, "The Apostle Paul explained - "Blessed be God who comforteth us in all our tribulations, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble." He was quoting from 2 Corinthians 1:4 using the King James Version of the text, a translation favored by Mormons.

43 Amory Blaine  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 8:28:34pm

Couple months old but a good read.

Battleground America
by Jill Lepore

When carrying a concealed weapon for self-defense is understood not as a failure of civil society, to be mourned, but as an act of citizenship, to be vaunted, there is little civilian life left.

44 freetoken  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 8:36:08pm

It's a slow Saturday night... the hot July temps are running everybody down I suppose.

45 freetoken  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 8:36:47pm

re: #42 Dark_Falcon

Romney is a former Mormon "bishop", their term for a guy who runs a local parish. So yes, he knows how to quote the Bible when he wants to.

46 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 8:45:00pm

I'm baffled. When I upding someone, their comment rating disappears completely.

47 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 8:45:45pm

re: #42 Dark_Falcon

But whatever else is true, Mitt Romney did give a good speech about the rampage in Denver. It was a very Christian speech, too, though not in my mind heavy-handedly so.

An excerpt from the article linked to above:

The KJV is favored by a hell of a lot of people who aren't Mormons. I wonder why the reporter felt it necessary to throw that bit in.

48 blueraven  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 8:47:08pm

re: #46 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm baffled. When I upding someone, their comment rating disappears completely.

Just tested that on your last comment...no problem here

49 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 8:48:25pm

I'm curious as to how much American wealth has been destroyed through the combination of bank greed and incompetence surrounding the housing market crash.

For Mary Sanchez, the vacant, foreclosed home across from hers on Abner Street in El Sereno was an assault on the senses and her piece of mind.

Gang members and squatters used it as a stash house. The place stank of dead animals. Mice made constant incursions from across the way onto her property, prompting her to get cats to head them off. Weeds in the yard reached as high as her chest.

"It was embarrassing," she said. "When people would come over I would say, 'Look for the ugly house with all the stuff in the lawn. I live next to that.' "

On Monday, Los Angeles officials accused US Bank of illegally allowing the Abner Street home and many others to deteriorate into slums. The civil allegations found problems in the way US Bank handled 1,500 home foreclosures and cited more than 150 homes that had fallen into disrepair. The city is demanding that the bank clean up vacant properties and improve conditions for families living in others.

Many of these homes around the country have been neglected to the point where they basically have to be torn down to the foundations and rebuilt. Their roofs leak, they're infested with mold, termites, human detritus and animal waste. Forcing their owners to leave them without providing the resources to safeguard them has guaranteed their demise, devalued their neighborhoods and created myriad incubators for criminality.

I was previously under the impression that foreclosed homes had to be auctioned off to the highest bidder within a very short time frame. I guess that's not the case, but if it was it would provide the Banks with an incentive to negotiate with owners in underwater loans. Otherwise they'd risk an immediate loss on their investment.

50 Sheila Broflovski  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 8:48:44pm

re: #46 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm baffled. When I upding someone, their comment rating disappears completely.

Works for me.

51 Big Joe  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 8:49:02pm

re: #44 freetoken

It's a slow Saturday night... the hot July temps are running everybody down I suppose.

Yep, it was 103 here and I spent most of the day outside chasing after the new puppy. He wants to crawl through the shrubbery and chew on every plant, stick and dried leaf in the yard.

52 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 8:50:24pm

re: #48 blueraven

Just tested that on your last comment...no problem here

I'm OK now too.

53 freetoken  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 8:54:42pm

re: #47 SanFranciscoZionist

The KJV is favored by a hell of a lot of people who aren't Mormons. I wonder why the reporter felt it necessary to throw that bit in.

My impression is that most of the American self described "evangelicals" use more modern translations, and more commonly fundamentalists use the KJV.

54 Kragar  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 9:02:21pm

re: #53 freetoken

My impression is that most of the American self described "evangelicals" use more modern translations, and more commonly fundamentalists use the KJV.

It was my understanding that the Bible has never been altered or revised since it was handed down by God. Why would the edition matter?
///

55 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 9:03:13pm

re: #53 freetoken

My impression is that most of the American self described "evangelicals" use more modern translations, and more commonly fundamentalists use the KJV.

IME the evangelicals like the NIV best. I'll take the NRSV unless I have a need for that old fashioned KJV poetry.

56 jaunte  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 9:10:26pm
57 Kragar  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 9:12:18pm

re: #56 jaunte

[Embedded content]

They needed an expert on drones and Michelle volunteered without understanding what they meant.

58 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 9:15:27pm

I was just sitting here thinking--this is one reason I no longer enjoy action films like I did as a child.

Actual violence happens to actual people. Film violence happens to extras, who are essentially cardboard cutouts.

Actual people have lives and families, and are sometimes six years old.

We aren't sitting here being entertained by how the police took out the bad guy, because we're too focused on the victims, although we are touched--not entertained, touched--by some of the acts of heroism that were performed.

59 jaunte  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 9:15:35pm

re: #57 Kragar

Steve Benen thinks Boehner might be trying to shut her up:

Look, I realize that Bachmann makes convenient fodder for jokes and mockery, but there's a good reason for that -- she's stark raving mad. Bachmann, in all seriousness, is one of the more ridiculous people to serve on Capitol Hill in my lifetime. I think most reasonable observers, regardless of party or ideology, should be able to agree that Bachmann lacks maturity, judgment, and the intellect needed to understand complex subjects.

Voluntarily assigning her responsibilities related to top secret intelligence and our national security is more than just a mistake -- it's arguably dangerous.

I've heard some whispers that have suggest Boehner is actually thinking strategically on this. Members of the Intelligence Committee are generally encouraged to avoid the media spotlight, and since Boehner very likely finds Bachmann embarrassing, this is his way of forcing her to keep a lower profile.

Perhaps there's something to this. But the fact remains that trusting Bachmann with our most guarded secrets is an inherently risky move.
[Link: www.washingtonmonthly.com...]

60 Targetpractice  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 9:17:04pm

re: #56 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Affirmative Action hire, they were afraid of being over the maximum level of competence.

//

61 freetoken  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 9:24:56pm

re: #58 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Me too. I really don't like violent films, unless they are parodies.

62 prairiefire  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 9:27:30pm

re: #55 William Barnett-Lewis

I like the NIV version best.

63 freetoken  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 9:37:07pm

I've been very critical of the Republican party at the national and local levels for some time now, and when I read stuff like the following it strengthens my belief that the GOP is now unsalvageable, from the ground up:

Eric Miller: Unusual decisions of counties' Republican executive committees to endorse Allen West necessary because of importance of national elections this fall, future U.S. governance

On July 9 a historic vote was taken by the Martin County Republican Executive Committee to endorse Congressman Allen West. It was the first time in more than 30 years that the local Republican Party has endorsed a candidate for any office.

The decision was made by a vocal majority of the elected Republican leaders in Martin County. The vote was 55-3. We are the third and last in Congressional District 18 to do so. Our counterparts in Palm Beach and St. Lucie have endorsed Allen with equally overwhelming majorities.

There are several reasons for this action. [...]

Further, we know that if we send Allen West to Congress with a full basket of goodwill we will not have half of it taken because he compromised while reaching across party lines. Compromise works best in two directions. [well, then what is "compromise"??]Allen West understands this and knows that when it comes to compromise, values are not negotiable.

[...]

The Middle East is being fundamentally transformed into a United States of Islam [umm, where have you been the past 1000 years??] and at home radical Islamists have set up shop on our own soil.

Global elites want to illegally tax you for your freedom in the form of carbon credits and development regulation. They want you to surrender your liberty and constitutional rights to bear arms.

[...]

Here's there very fancy county GOP platform, full of all the goodies we now expect of GOP platforms:
[Link: martingop.org...]

64 RadicalModerate  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 9:37:29pm

Well, crap. This isn't good at all.

Police looking for second “person of interest” in theater shooting

AURORA, Colo. — Sources tell FOX31 Denver reporter Justin Joseph that a second man is now a person-of-interest in the Aurora theater shooting investigation. We are not disclosing his identity because he has not been charged.

Twelve people were killed and 58 injured early Friday when James Egan Holmes allegedly opened fire inside the crowded theater.

Neighbors of the person of interest say for the past two days there have been SWAT team and police cars in their alley and unmarked cars in street.

“He’s been there about a year,” said one neighbor.

Agents showed up again this morning.

“I woke up this morning with cops still here trying to look inside his home. At 5:00 a.m. cops showed-up and asked me about (him).”

Sources tell Justin Joseph someone made either a call or a text from the person of interest’s phone threatening violence if James Egan Holmes was not released from jail. That call prompted police to issue an alert to find and detain him.

65 Mich-again  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 9:43:24pm

re: #59 jaunte

Members of the Intelligence Committee are generally encouraged to avoid the media spotlight, and since Boehner very likely finds Bachmann embarrassing, this is his way of forcing her to keep a lower profile.

40% of the time, this strategy works every time.

66 Targetpractice  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 9:43:36pm

re: #64 RadicalModerate

Well, crap. This isn't good at all.

Police looking for second “person of interest” in theater shooting

Considering the amount of money that had to be sunk into buying the tactical gear, the weapons, and the improvised explosives, I'd say the possibility that more than one person was involved is pretty high.

67 MittDoesNotCompute  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 9:46:21pm

re: #63 freetoken

I've been very critical of the Republican party at the national and local levels for some time now, and when I read stuff like the following it strengthens my belief that the GOP is now unsalvageable, from the ground up:

Eric Miller: Unusual decisions of counties' Republican executive committees to endorse Allen West necessary because of importance of national elections this fall, future U.S. governance

Here's there very fancy county GOP platform, full of all the goodies we now expect of GOP platforms:
[Link: martingop.org...]

Not that it's a surprise, but that county GOP platform (and those like it) makes me feel like this:

Image: my-mind-is-full-of.jpg

68 freetoken  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 9:48:13pm

And, while I'm at it, here's an example of why to me "conservative" is a dirty word.

Over at the American Conservative magazine, long time home of what we label as "paleoconservatives", one of the top articles is by Ron Unz as tackles a topic that presses buttons:

Race, IQ, and Wealth

It's an attempt by Unz to show that the average "IQ" of a citizenry is tied to the success (i.e., "wealth") of that nation, and it is more a cultural, and not genetic, phenomenon. That is, as a nation adopts a certain culture, its people become wealthier, and they also become smarter.

IOW, he's cultural racist, not a genetics-causal racist.

But... in the comments some of the "race realists" as they are sometimes called take on Mr. Unz for misinterpreting the data.

And, over at the usual sites (such as VDARE) are calling attention to the book that Unz references, IQ and the Wealth of Nations, is a favorite of race realists who derive from it the fact that IQ is driven by genetics.

So there we have it - the big discussion in "conservative" circles is whether blacks and Africans are less intelligent (and relatively poorer) because of genetics, or just because of inferior culture.

That's what "conservatives" discuss.

And this is the crowd which the GOP courts, including Mitt Romney.

69 freetoken  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 9:49:36pm

Hmmm... pretty bad grammar in that last post... need more chocolate.

70 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 9:54:09pm

re: #69 freetoken

Hmmm... pretty bad grammar in that last post... need more chocolate.

Bad grammar in the post...need more chocolate.

Good grammar in the post...celebrate with chocolate.

Swiss grammar in the post...really good chocolate.

71 MittDoesNotCompute  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 9:54:21pm

re: #65 Mich-again

40% of the time, this strategy works every time.

Kinda like Sex Panther, huh?

72 Mich-again  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 9:56:52pm

re: #42 Dark_Falcon

But whatever else is true, Mitt Romney did give a good speech about the rampage in Denver.

Sounds more like a sermon than a speech.

73 RadicalModerate  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 9:58:26pm

By the way, lest anyone forget in the wake of the Aurora, Colorado theater shootings.
It is now July 22 in most of the world, marking the one-year anniversary of one of the most horrific acts of far right-wing terrorism in recent history - and there are others who are likely celebrating this day.


Norway marks anniversary of Breivik's massacre

On July 22, 2011 right-wing extremist Anders Behring Breivik first set off a bomb near the government building in Oslo, killing eight people, before going on a shooting rampage on nearby Utoeya island, where the ruling Labour Party's youth wing was hosting a summer camp.

He killed 69 people on the island, most of them teens, with the youngest having just celebrated her 14th birthday.

Numerous events are scheduled in and around Oslo, and especially at the sites of the two attacks, in memory of the victims of the worst atrocity carried out on Norwegian soil since World War II.

74 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 9:59:47pm

re: #72 Mich-again

Sounds more like a sermon than a speech.

At a time like this, better religion than politics, if the religion is of the "Let us comfort them and have compassion for them," sort.

75 austin_blue  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 10:00:11pm

How many weapons does a person reasonably need?

The best thing for home defense is a pump/automatic shotgun.

The best thing for hunting is a good rifle or a pump/automatic shotgun.

The best thing for shooting skeet is an automatic shotgun.

Pistols are good for killing people at close range. They are not as effective for home defense as a shotgun. For any other use, they are pretty much a joke.

If I was God, every weapon on the planet with a barrel less than 22" and a fixed stock would disappear, and their continued manufacture or possession would be a capital crime.

Would this stop another Aurora? No. But the previous four non-family incidents were pistol only: Fort Hood, Oakland, Binghamton, and Virginia Tech.

That's 65 dead humans by pistol. Get rid of the damned things.

76 Amory Blaine  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 10:05:17pm
77 Amory Blaine  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 10:05:52pm

re: #76 Amory Blaine

This is the guy who said he was going to create 250,000 jobs in 4 years.

78 Targetpractice  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 10:07:06pm

re: #76 Amory Blaine

[Embedded content]

Sure Noah could have built it. He just needed to sell it to the DoD as a troop carrier and he'd have been swimming in funds.

79 jaunte  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 10:07:35pm

re: #76 Amory Blaine

Classic.

80 freetoken  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 10:07:50pm

re: #78 Targetpractice

Sure Noah could have built it. He just needed to sell it to the DoD as a troop carrier and he'd have been swimming in funds.

Another tweet waiting to happen. Do it in reply!

81 Varek Raith  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 10:08:06pm

re: #10 Charles Johnson

See, I could have just said that to begin with.

Where's the fun in that?
;)

82 Targetpractice  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 10:09:27pm

re: #80 freetoken

Another tweet waiting to happen. Do it in reply!

I would, 'cept I don't have a Twitter account. Hell, created a Facebook account ages back to keep in touch with family and hardly ever check it.

83 jaunte  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 10:10:19pm

re: #82 Targetpractice

I'll send it, if you like.

84 freetoken  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 10:11:23pm

re: #83 jaunte

I'll send it, if you like.

Or me... but the first sentence needs rewording.

85 Targetpractice  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 10:11:28pm

re: #83 jaunte

I'll send it, if you like.

Go for it, I'll sit here and marvel at how many government projects in the last century came about to support our military.

86 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 10:12:15pm

re: #76 Amory Blaine

[Embedded content]

Imagine if Robert Oppenheimer had needed help from the government to build an atomic weapon.

87 freetoken  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 10:12:53pm

Something like:

Noah would have used gov't help: If He sold it to the DoD as a troop carrier and he'd been swimming in funds.

88 Varek Raith  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 10:13:21pm

re: #76 Amory Blaine

[Embedded content]

Maybe if Noah had a government sponsor it would've actually been built!
ZING!

89 Mich-again  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 10:13:21pm

re: #75 austin_blue

NY Cop Shoots and Kills Son in Hotel, Troopers Say

Troopers say Parry Police Department Officer Michael Leach called 911 to report the shooting early Saturday. He was staying at the Clark Beach Motel and shot someone he believed to be an intruder. But the man turned out to be his 37-year-old son,

90 freetoken  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 10:13:43pm

Whoops... extra word:

Noah would have used gov't help: If He had sold it to the DoD as a troop carrier he'd have been swimming in funds.

91 freetoken  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 10:14:26pm

Shorter:

If Noah had sold it to the DoD as a troop carrier he'd have been swimming in funds.

92 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 10:14:53pm

re: #88 Varek Raith

Maybe if Noah had a government sponsor it would've actually been built!
ZING!

No, I see that as the kind of project that would go several billion dollars over budget without ever being delivered.

93 Amory Blaine  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 10:15:08pm

OBAMA APOLOGIZES TO ROMNEY

94 Targetpractice  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 10:16:26pm

re: #92 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne

No, I see that as the kind of project that would go several billion dollars over budget without ever being delivered.

And still have several congress critters fighting tooth and nail to keep the project funded because it provided jobs in their district while making them look "tough" on defense.

95 Varek Raith  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 10:16:37pm

re: #93 Amory Blaine

OBAMA APOLOGIZES TO ROMNEY

[Embedded content]

...
Lol?
...

96 Mich-again  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 10:18:47pm

re: #76 Amory Blaine

Imagine if Noah had needed help from the government to build the ark. It might have never been built.

Apparently Noah had help from the government because it never was actually built.

97 freetoken  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 10:24:37pm

Heaviest rains in 60 years kill 10 in Beijing: media

BEIJING (Reuters) - The heaviest rain storm in six decades to hit the Chinese capital killed at least 10 people and caused widespread chaos, flooding streets and stranding 80,000 people at the city's main airport, state media reported on Sunday.

Lots of severe weather.

A former girlfriend lives in Beijing (I think, still). Not a place she wanted to live but she could find good work there.

I think many Americans are just not aware of what life is like over there, and what then motivates China to do what it does at times. Its not a mystery, really, when one realizes the magnitude of the population, its long and tough history, and the gordian knot complexity of the whole environment.

98 freetoken  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 10:47:08pm

And now, some Ligeti:

99 austin_blue  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 10:49:10pm

re: #97 freetoken

Heaviest rains in 60 years kill 10 in Beijing: media

Lots of severe weather.

A former girlfriend lives in Beijing (I think, still). Not a place she wanted to live but she could find good work there.

I think many Americans are just not aware of what life is like over there, and what then motivates China to do what it does at times. Its not a mystery, really, when one realizes the magnitude of the population, its long and tough history, and the gordian knot complexity of the whole environment.

Well, welcome to the greenhouse! We had historic drought in Texas last summer during La Nina. Our Bastrop Complex fire destroyed +/- 3000 homes. This year, decent rainfall has increased soil moisture out of the Extreme and Exceptional categories, but has had little impact on our reservoirs, especially in central and especially west Texas (they are just fucked).

This year's El Nino has resulted in the droughts in the grain belt that is pushing corn to near record highs. This is not surprising. The amplitude and severity of weather events has long been predicted by climatologists due to climate change. Our window for action is closing fast before things start getting *really* weird.

As I said, welcome to the greenhouse. This is the new normal.

100 freetoken  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 10:52:01pm

Whenever a music piece is marked "Allegro nervoso" you ought to expect something a bit out there.

101 freetoken  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 10:55:29pm

Here's some Bach, who, to the best of my knowledge, never marked a piece nervoso:

102 freetoken  Sat, Jul 21, 2012 11:46:48pm
103 Kragar  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 12:07:59am

MST3K - 620 - Danger! Death Ray

104 researchok  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 1:11:45am

Morning, all

105 researchok  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 1:18:41am

re: #98 freetoken

And now, some Ligeti:

[Embedded content]

Not to be confused with 'easy listening'

The first cup just went down rather quickly

106 researchok  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 1:26:20am

re: #102 freetoken

[Embedded content]

I'm very glad this came after the Ligeti. The universe is back in alignment.

TY

107 freetoken  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 2:10:56am

Now... for one from my secret vault, the one with all the really, really special music.

Tchaikovsky's op. 41, Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom, mvt. 6, Hymn of the Cherubim:

108 Mentis Fugit  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 2:53:56am

re: #24 jaunte

Skateboarder 'Jumped by Blacks' Actually Hit a Wall

Maybe he knows Dan Riehl.

Nah, Dan Riehl would have totally owned those imaginary N6's like he did on the DC metro. /+6

Atchly, I prefer erik_t's riposte at #26, but my hours ain't yours, so I'm always behind the curve anyway.

109 researchok  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 5:12:34am

re: #107 freetoken

Now... for one from my secret vault, the one with all the really, really special music.

Tchaikovsky's op. 41, Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom, mvt. 6, Hymn of the Cherubim:

[Embedded content]

Favorited.

110 Kragar  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 5:35:37am

Something to start the day with

111 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 5:45:28am

re: #66 Targetpractice

Considering the amount of money that had to be sunk into buying the tactical gear, the weapons, and the improvised explosives, I'd say the possibility that more than one person was involved is pretty high.

Indeed. He had more ammo than one person could carry, and two long guns, which can only be used one at a time. Perhaps he had planned to work with a partner, ala Columbine, only to have the second man back away from the plot.

112 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 6:00:17am

re: #110 Kragar

Something to start the day with

[Embedded content]

What if my day already started,,
OR
What if I'm now finishing my day!?!?!

/

113 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 6:03:53am

re: #112 sattv4u2

What if my day already started,,
OR
What if I'm now finishing my day!?!?!

/

Play something that gets you through till you get home.

114 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 6:04:54am

re: #113 Dark_Falcon

Play something that gets you through till you get home.

115 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 6:05:50am

re: #114 sattv4u2

[Embedded content]

Ig. That's a little depressing, don't you think?

116 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 6:08:39am

re: #115 Dark_Falcon

Ig. That's a little depressing, don't you think?

Life's not all rainbows and gumdrops!

117 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 6:10:42am

re: #111 Dark_Falcon

Perhaps he had planned to work with a partner

This report was out early in the story

Witness: Someone let gunman inside Colorado movie theater

[Link: www.wkyc.com...]

118 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 6:18:12am

re: #117 sattv4u2

Perhaps he had planned to work with a partner

This report was out early in the story

Witness: Someone let gunman inside Colorado movie theater

[Link: www.wkyc.com...]

The thing is, it looks like Holmes did that himself. He bought his ticket and took his seat, then left via the emergency exit so he could rig it to let himself back in.

119 A Mom Anon  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 6:31:14am

re: #118 Dark_Falcon

Witnesses have said he got up and left through the exit and came back in that way. It may have been just as simple as duct taping the door latch down so it couldn't re-latch when it went closed. What I was hearing this morning is that the second person of interest had called and made threats to law enforcement if the shooter was kept in jail. Might have just been some jackass thinking it would be amusing to rile up law enforcement some more.

120 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 6:31:39am

re: #118 Dark_Falcon

The thing is, it looks like Holmes did that himself. He bought his ticket and took his seat, then left via the emergency exit so he could rig it to let himself back in.

Could be

But if the witness noticed someone "a person came up to the front row, the front right, sat down, and as credits were going, it looked like he got a phone call. He went out toward the emergency exit doorway" he probably would have also noticed the distinctive hair style/ color
ALSO, if Holmes entered through the theater lobby and bought a ticket to get in, most likely there will be surveillance video of that

121 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 6:36:12am

re: #120 sattv4u2

Could be

But if the witness noticed someone "a person came up to the front row, the front right, sat down, and as credits were going, it looked like he got a phone call. He went out toward the emergency exit doorway" he probably would have also noticed the distinctive hair style/ color
ALSO, if Holmes entered through the theater lobby and bought a ticket to get in, most likely there will be surveillance video of that

Perhaps he was wearing a hat, or maybe the police did not want all the details to come out. Cops often hold a small number of details back if they can to allow them to use those details to establish the reliability and veracity of potential witnesses.

122 A Mom Anon  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 6:41:00am

re: #121 Dark_Falcon

I had heard it was the shooter who got the call and went out the exit.

Thing is,when this stuff happens,all the initial reports are jumbled up and often interpreted wrong. It takes awhile for it to all unwind and get pieced together.

123 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 6:41:44am

re: #121 Dark_Falcon

Perhaps he was wearing a hat, or maybe the police did not want all the details to come out. Cops often hold a small number of details back if they can to allow them to use those details to establish the reliability and veracity of potential witnesses.

And thats why I implored people here right from the start to invoke the 24 Hour rule (and not a literal 24 hours, just whatever timeframe it took to get the correct details)

Hell, there was a posting here showing "this" guys Tea Party page. Problem was, it wasn't "this" guy, rather someone else with the same name but 30 years older!

124 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 6:46:29am

re: #123 sattv4u2

And thats why I implored people here right from the start to invoke the 24 Hour rule (and not a literal 24 hours, just whatever timeframe it took to get the correct details)

Hell, there was a posting here showing "this" guys Tea Party page. Problem was, it wasn't "this" guy, rather someone else with the same name but 30 years older!

I know. And from what I heard that other guy had to take his page down in a hurry. Still, he was lucky the shooter is in custody. He might have gotten attacked himself otherwise.

125 Mich-again  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 6:56:06am

re: #99 austin_blue

As air gets warmer, it can hold a lot more moisture. The Psychrometric chart explains it.. But the warm humid air has to collide with cold air to make it rain. So as the oceans and the atmosphere warm up, there will be more incidents of massive rainfalls where warm and cold air systems collide and less rain in areas where cold fronts can't chill the warm air down to dewpoint.
The warming planet is destined for more extreme weather.

126 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 7:06:44am

re: #103 Kragar

MST3K - 620 - Danger! Death Ray

[Embedded content]

One of my favorite bits is from that episode. When Crow gets hit by Servo's death ray and his eyes catch on fire.

127 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 7:07:12am

21-Pound Lobster To Be Released Back Into Cape Cod Waters

[Link: boston.cbslocal.com...]
The restaurant was holding a drawing, but after an outpouring of concern, they did not want to “allow the future of this noble lobster to be determined by chance.”
Truth was, the restaurant couldn't afford the melted butter it would have had to serve with the monster Crustacean

128 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 7:09:13am

re: #123 sattv4u2

And thats why I implored people here right from the start to invoke the 24 Hour rule (and not a literal 24 hours, just whatever timeframe it took to get the correct details)

Hell, there was a posting here showing "this" guys Tea Party page. Problem was, it wasn't "this" guy, rather someone else with the same name but 30 years older!

In that case Obama is off limits as a topic since all the correct details on his birth certificate and college transcripts are still not out!
j/k
///

129 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 7:10:29am

re: #127 sattv4u2

21-Pound Lobster To Be Released Back Into Cape Cod Waters

[Link: boston.cbslocal.com...]
The restaurant was holding a drawing, but after an outpouring of concern, they did not want to “allow the future of this noble lobster to be determined by chance.”
Truth was, the restaurant couldn't afford the melted butter it would have had to serve with the monster Crustacean

And without Godzilla around who knows what sort of monstrous cousins it has lurking in the nearby depths. VENGEFUL cousins!
;)

130 Mich-again  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 7:12:27am

re: #124 Dark_Falcon

I struggle with why gun owners need the right to buy thousands of rounds of ammunition online and have it delivered by UPS to their front door. The right to bear arms is one thing. The right to stockpile a military style arsenal gets into murkier territory.

The NRA crowd accepts that this is the sort of tragedy is going to happen every so often but they prefer that to anything infringing on their alleged 2nd ammendment rights.

131 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 7:14:04am

re: #129 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

And without Godzilla around who knows what sort of monstrous cousins it has lurking in the nearby depths. VENGEFUL cousins!
;)

Image: chimera.jpg

Image: weird-fish.jpg

Image: wierdfish.jpg

132 darthstar  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 7:18:01am

Good mornin' everyone...and I do mean good...I love the smell of desperation in the morning...

[Link: www.forbes.com...]

the Romney campaign resorted to an unorthodox tactic Tuesday; they created a fake Bill Clinton Twitter handle and tweeted praise of Romney from it.

LOOK AT US! WE'RE PATHETIC!

133 darthstar  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 7:21:37am

Not just pathetic, but stupid as in Palin stupid.

“[T]he tipster claims to have hacked into it by guessing Romney’s favorite pet in response to a ‘security’ question,” writes Max Read at Gawker. My guess for that would be Seamus, the famously terrified dog Romney likes to let ride on the roof of his car.

[Link: www.forbes.com...]

134 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 7:27:54am

re: #130 Mich-again

I struggle with why gun owners need the right to buy thousands of rounds of ammunition online and have it delivered by UPS to their front door

I do own a weapon (two, actually) but have never bought ammo online

That stated, I'm sure it's much like any other product bought online. Less expensive and save the trip to the store.

As for the "thousands of rounds" I'm not sure how many rounds a legally bought/ owned/ registered full-automatic firearm fires in a 5 second squeeze, but if someone were to go to a range to practice with his/hers I'm sure it could be in the thousands within a few minutes

NOTE ,,, the above is NOT an endorsement for someone to own such a weapon. It's just as response to your "thousands of rounds online" question

135 darthstar  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 7:28:15am

re: #127 sattv4u2

21-Pound Lobster To Be Released Back Into Cape Cod Waters

[Link: boston.cbslocal.com...]
The restaurant was holding a drawing, but after an outpouring of concern, they did not want to “allow the future of this noble lobster to be determined by chance.”
Truth was, the restaurant couldn't afford the melted butter it would have had to serve with the monster Crustacean

The last time a restaurant released a monster lobster they made a big fan-fare over it until someone pointed out as the lobster disappeared from site that they forgot to remove the rubber bands from its claws.

136 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 7:29:07am

re: #132 darthstar

Good mornin' everyone...and I do mean good...I love the smell of desperation in the morning...

[Link: www.forbes.com...]

Geeze... That's sort of shit the Stalkers do to Ludwig and Gus.

137 darthstar  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 7:30:46am

re: #131 sattv4u2

Image: wierdfish.jpg

I told you not to look inside your wife's bedside drawer.

138 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 7:31:44am

re: #137 darthstar

I told you not to look inside your wife's bedside drawer.

I'm actually envious!

139 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 7:32:22am

re: #135 darthstar

The last time a restaurant released a monster lobster they made a big fan-fare over it until someone pointed out as the lobster disappeared from site that they forgot to remove the rubber bands from its claws.

DOH!!

140 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 7:33:15am

re: #130 Mich-again

I struggle with why gun owners need the right to buy thousands of rounds of ammunition online and have it delivered by UPS to their front door. The right to bear arms is one thing. The right to stockpile a military style arsenal gets into murkier territory.

The NRA crowd accepts that this is the sort of tragedy is going to happen every so often but they prefer that to anything infringing on their alleged 2nd ammendment rights.

Many shops give a discount if you buy in bulk, so that it's cheaper per round if you buy in large quantities. 1000 rounds is usually a point where a price break kicks in, so thousand round purchases are not unusual.

Also relevant is that with an AR-15 or AK type semi-auto you can go through 150-200 rounds during a target shooting session. So buying the ammo for such a rifle in 1000 round lots often makes sense.

141 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 7:35:04am

Ah. Found it. Crow gets cooked about 24:20 into the video of Danger: Death Ray!

142 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 7:37:54am

re: #141 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Ah. Found it. Crow gets cooked about 24:20 into the video of Danger: Death Ray!

You really need to get a hobby!!

//

143 A Mom Anon  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 7:38:28am

re: #134 sattv4u2

I can see that,but then why not keep all that ammo at the range if it was for target practice then? From what I remember,some gun ranges will allow you to store guns and ammo in a locker or safe(at least that was the case back when I was young,single and owned both a pistol and a shotgun)on the premises if you wish to as part of membership. Beyond that,there is no reason on earth anyone needs that many weapons or rounds of ammo. At the very least the sellers should have to red flag such purchases and notify law enforcement.

I think there have got to be some rules implemented here. I am not anti-gun but I am anti-unregulated firearms. We have rules in a civilized society and they can be implemented without taking away the right to own a gun for hunting or even self protection. A system similar to what we have now for learning to drive and being licensed to operate a car,commercial truck or motorcycle wouldn't be a bad thing and neither would registering every gun.(if you sell the gun,then you have to transfer title,just like a car) We have the infrastructure in place for that,it's just a matter of organizing and properly implementing it.

144 darthstar  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 7:38:29am
145 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 7:42:25am

re: #135 darthstar

The last time a restaurant released a monster lobster they made a big fan-fare over it until someone pointed out as the lobster disappeared from site that they forgot to remove the rubber bands from its claws.

I've told this story before but not in the last couple years: The Shedd Aquarium in Chicago was the recipient of one such giant lobster. It actually had been sold to a restaurant, but the owners of said restaurant decided it would be both wrong and overly difficult to cook such a huge lobster (it weighed 30 pounds(!)) so they donated the big crustacean to the Shedd. He made a big viewer draw at the tank containing lobsters (a normal Shedd tank set into the wall of the viewing galleries, with off exhibit employee space behind the tank and via catwalks above), with 4 of those viewers being Yours Truly, my sister, and our parents. Sadly, lobsters of that size a very vulnerable to temperature changes and he died after a few years when the cooling system for his tank malfunctioned. The Shedd was able to repair the problem in time to save the smaller lobsters.

146 darthstar  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 7:42:55am

It's based on UK reporting, but American journos should take note.

147 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 7:45:36am

re: #143 A Mom Anon

I can see that,but then why not keep all that ammo at the range if it was for target practice then

It's not the ranges responsibility to keep/ store your ammo

some gun ranges will allow you to store guns and ammo in a locker or safe

Yes ,, SOME do ,,,but it's extra liability (i.e. forms,, insurance, etc) on them

Beyond that,there is no reason on earth anyone needs that many weapons or rounds of ammo.

Again, a full auto weapon fires hundreds of rounds per burst, so thousands really is not that many

At the very least the sellers should have to red flag such purchases and notify law enforcement

Gun/ ammo sales are strictly regulated
Civilian ownership of assault rifles or any other full-automatic firearm is tightly regulated by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives under the National Firearms Act of 1934 as amended by Title II of the Gun Control Act of 1968.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
[Link: www.cga.ct.gov...]

I am not anti-gun but I am anti-unregulated firearms.

Again, there are strict rules regarding that. That someone finds ways to break those rules should not come as a surprise

148 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 7:46:38am

re: #145 Dark_Falcon

the Shedd was able to repair the problem in time to save the smaller lobsters. and have one helluva feast with the large, now dead, one!!

149 darthstar  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 7:47:46am

KSL.com was criticised by the Mayor's office for running classified adverts which allow individuals to buy and sell handguns and other firearms without proper background checks and no questions asked.

The site is owned by Deseret Media, the for-profit arm of the Church of the Latter Day Saints – also known as the Mormons – which has come to prominence recently as a result of the presidential run of member Mitt Romney.

Countdown to retroactive conversion to being a Lutheran in 3..2..1..

150 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 7:48:31am

re: #144 darthstar

re: #144 darthstar

[Embedded content]

151 kirkspencer  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 7:49:42am

re: #143 A Mom Anon

I can see that,but then why not keep all that ammo at the range if it was for target practice then? From what I remember,some gun ranges will allow you to store guns and ammo in a locker or safe(at least that was the case back when I was young,single and owned both a pistol and a shotgun)on the premises if you wish to as part of membership. Beyond that,there is no reason on earth anyone needs that many weapons or rounds of ammo. At the very least the sellers should have to red flag such purchases and notify law enforcement.

I think there have got to be some rules implemented here. I am not anti-gun but I am anti-unregulated firearms. We have rules in a civilized society and they can be implemented without taking away the right to own a gun for hunting or even self protection. A system similar to what we have now for learning to drive and being licensed to operate a car,commercial truck or motorcycle wouldn't be a bad thing and neither would registering every gun.(if you sell the gun,then you have to transfer title,just like a car) We have the infrastructure in place for that,it's just a matter of organizing and properly implementing it.

I agree, but allow me to run the opposition for a moment.

The reason the founders put the second amendment in place was to put a 'final check' on the possibility of the government turning into a tyranny. Requiring registration of all firearms subverts this by allowing the government to quickly locate and seize the firearms.

I can recall when those who held that attitude were ridiculed as the 'black helicopter crowd'. The sovereign citizen movement, the patriot movement, the citizen militia movement, the constitutional convention movement, all (most of which overlapped) were seen as, well, loonies even less acceptable than the KKK and the Birchers.

But they've always had a stronghold in the second amendment organizations and for the last 30 years have been dominant in the NRA. You're not breaking that unless/until the tea party dominance of the Republican Party breaks.

152 darthstar  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 7:50:25am
153 kirkspencer  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 7:51:26am

re: #150 Dark_Falcon

re: #144 darthstar

[Embedded content]

Blasphemy? ooookay.

154 darthstar  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 7:51:54am

re: #150 Dark_Falcon

REPENT! REPENT! You tell him, Dark...and on a Sunday! PWNED!

Okay...time to run the dog.

155 allegro  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 7:52:00am

re: #152 darthstar

[Embedded content]

Naw, the bioculture needs skeeters. Fire ants on the other hand...

156 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 7:52:46am

re: #152 darthstar

[Embedded content]

having summered in Maine (mosquitoes) and New Hampshire (black flies) I can attest to that,,, ESPECIALLY since moving to Georgia and discovering the "joys" of red ants!!

157 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 7:53:16am

re: #155 allegro

GMTA (156)

158 Renaissance_Man  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 7:53:22am

re: #143 A Mom Anon

I can see that,but then why not keep all that ammo at the range if it was for target practice then? From what I remember,some gun ranges will allow you to store guns and ammo in a locker or safe(at least that was the case back when I was young,single and owned both a pistol and a shotgun)on the premises if you wish to as part of membership. Beyond that,there is no reason on earth anyone needs that many weapons or rounds of ammo. At the very least the sellers should have to red flag such purchases and notify law enforcement.

I think there have got to be some rules implemented here. I am not anti-gun but I am anti-unregulated firearms. We have rules in a civilized society and they can be implemented without taking away the right to own a gun for hunting or even self protection. A system similar to what we have now for learning to drive and being licensed to operate a car,commercial truck or motorcycle wouldn't be a bad thing and neither would registering every gun.(if you sell the gun,then you have to transfer title,just like a car) We have the infrastructure in place for that,it's just a matter of organizing and properly implementing it.

One of the usual tropes trolled out by the usual fools is that guns are just a tool, just an object, and it's the people that are bad. That's pretty obviously false on its face. We regulate other dangerous objects and behaviours. Such regulation is not perfect or 100% effective, but neither is making murder illegal. Any other dangerous object gets treated accordingly, but not guns. Because guns aren't just an object in the US, they are sacred fetishes. And the price of this particular religion is thousands of lives lost, tens of thousands more permanently altered, and thousands of families devastated.

Imagine if we treated terrorist attacks like gun massacres. There'd be no security checks, no rules about what you can bring onto a plane, and if a bomb went off or a plane got hijacked every month, we'd all shrug, tut-tut about it, and go about our business. And any mention of maybe not allowing everyone to carry weapons onto planes or maybe walk through a metal detector occasionally would be considered the foulest heresy. And idiots would say 'well, you can't stop terrorist attacks, so why infringe on our rights?'

159 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 7:54:33am

re: #158 Renaissance_Man

We regulate other dangerous objects and behaviours. Such regulation is not perfect or 100% effective, but neither is making murder illegal. Any other dangerous object gets treated accordingly, but not guns.

Gun sales/ ownership isn't regulated?

160 kirkspencer  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 7:55:02am

re: #158 Renaissance_Man

One of the usual tropes trolled out by the usual fools is that guns are just a tool, just an object, and it's the people that are bad. That's pretty obviously false on its face. We regulate other dangerous objects and behaviours. Such regulation is not perfect or 100% effective, but neither is making murder illegal. Any other dangerous object gets treated accordingly, but not guns. Because guns aren't just an object in the US, they are sacred fetishes. And the price of this particular religion is thousands of lives lost, tens of thousands more permanently altered, and thousands of families devastated.

Imagine if we treated terrorist attacks like gun massacres. There'd be no security checks, no rules about what you can bring onto a plane, and if a bomb went off or a plane got hijacked every month, we'd all shrug, tut-tut about it, and go about our business. And any mention of maybe not allowing everyone to carry weapons onto planes or maybe walk through a metal detector occasionally would be considered the foulest heresy. And idiots would say 'well, you can't stop terrorist attacks, so why infringe on our rights?'

I recall that one of the arguments from this trope was to issue every person who boarded the airplane a firearm unless they were already carrying.

161 kirkspencer  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 7:58:58am

re: #159 sattv4u2

We regulate other dangerous objects and behaviours. Such regulation is not perfect or 100% effective, but neither is making murder illegal. Any other dangerous object gets treated accordingly, but not guns.

Gun sales/ ownership isn't regulated?

Depends on your definition of regulation. I can still go to a gun show and purchase a firearm without it being registered. I can still purchase a firearm from a private individual and am not required to update its registration if it had such (in most states).

162 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 7:59:49am

re: #150 Dark_Falcon

re: #144 darthstar

[Embedded content]

Someone introduce Jesus to the 1st Amendment.
Kthx.
:P

163 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:01:05am

re: #151 kirkspencer

I agree, but allow me to run the opposition for a moment.

I can recall when those who held that attitude were ridiculed as the 'black helicopter crowd'. The sovereign citizen movement, the patriot movement, the citizen militia movement, the constitutional convention movement, all (most of which overlapped) were seen as, well, loonies even less acceptable than the KKK and the Birchers.

But they've always had a stronghold in the second amendment organizations and for the last 30 years have been dominant in the NRA. You're not breaking that unless/until the tea party dominance of the Republican Party breaks.

The NRA has always been stronger in the Republican Party than in the Democratic Party. The NRA founders were all former Union officers and Ambrose Burnside was its first president. The NRA's first fights against gun laws were those laws intended to disarm black people. Such actions made the NRA greatly disliked in the South. That attitude changed as time went on, but it was not till the 1960's-70's that the south really gained traction within the NRA, in large part due to growing anti-gun sentiment in northern states. Even so, the NRA is still more Far West than southern in its nature, with Colorado as part of its natural home.

164 allegro  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:02:04am

For a number of years, my late husband and I met a small group of friends one Sunday morning a month at a gun range to target shoot before doing a late brunch and start slurping Mimosas. It was a lot of fun and it kept our skills sharp as we enjoyed good natured competition.

What the hell fun is a freaking automatic weapon? I just don't get it. There is no purpose for these weapons outside of a war scenario and "I'm a collector. I like having them" does not hold up for me as a reasonable circumstance for allowing the civilian sale of these weapons so easily.

165 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:03:51am

re: #164 allegro

to target shoot before doing a late brunch and start slurping Mimosas

Thank God the agenda wasn't reversed!!!
/

What the hell fun is a freaking automatic weapon? I just don't get it.

Me either! (neither!?!?)

166 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:04:17am

Wayne LaPierre is a paranoid nut.

167 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:04:28am

re: #162 Varek Raith

Someone introduce Jesus to the 1st Amendment.
Kthx.
:P

I can call someone's words 'blasphemy' if I wish. What it would be wrong and unconstitutional to do would be advocating they be punished by the law or by vigilantes for have spoken as they did. I have never advocated any such thing, ever.

168 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:05:02am

re: #160 kirkspencer

I recall that one of the arguments from this trope was to issue every person who boarded the airplane a firearm unless they were already carrying.

And all it would have taken to stop this maniac with body armor 3 guns and gas in the room was one "citizen" carrying a sidearm to take him down with one shot to the head! These people live in a video game fantasy world.

169 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:06:53am

re: #168 Achilles Tang

These people live in a video game fantasy world.

Unfortunately, it appears as if Mr. Holmes believes he's in a movie!

170 kirkspencer  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:08:02am

re: #163 Dark_Falcon

The NRA has always been stronger in the Republican Party than in the Democratic Party. The NRA founders were all former Union officers and Ambrose Burnside was its first president. The NRA's first fights against gun laws were those laws intended to disarm black people. Such actions made the NRA greatly disliked in the South. That attitude changed as time went on, but it was not till the 1960's-70's that the south really gained traction within the NRA, in large part due to growing anti-gun sentiment in northern states. Even so, the NRA is still more Far West than southern in its nature, with Colorado as part of its natural home.

Does not change that for the last 30 years or so the black helicopter crowd has come to dominate the organization.

Worth pointing out that the black helicopter crowd has more frequently been found in the west than the south. While Michigan has been a stronghold, the "big state" is Idaho, with Montana and Colorado being strong contenders.

171 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:10:14am

re: #164 allegro

For a number of years, my late husband and I met a small group of friends one Sunday morning a month at a gun range to target shoot before doing a late brunch and start slurping Mimosas. It was a lot of fun and it kept our skills sharp as we enjoyed good natured competition.

What the hell fun is a freaking automatic weapon? I just don't get it. There is no purpose for these weapons outside of a war scenario and "I'm a collector. I like having them" does not hold up for me as a reasonable circumstance for allowing the civilian sale of these weapons so easily.

The purpose for the converted is not fun or normal self defense. These jerks think they are the last line of defense against violations of the constitution (they determine if that has occurred), when they totally miss the point that the structure of the constitution was to protect against people like them.

There are loads of these morons on places like WND, and they claim that the constitution has already been violated and the administration is carrying out a coup now (on behalf of the UN). Anyone who thinks like that is a real and present danger to us all.

172 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:17:03am

re: #140 Dark_Falcon

Many shops give a discount if you buy in bulk, so that it's cheaper per round if you buy in large quantities. 1000 rounds is usually a point where a price break kicks in, so thousand round purchases are not unusual.

Also relevant is that with an AR-15 or AK type semi-auto you can go through 150-200 rounds during a target shooting session. So buying the ammo for such a rifle in 1000 round lots often makes sense.

Target shooting? It's not target shooting if you have to test yourself with 200 rounds. Might as well save money and blindfold yourself and light some firecrackers at your feet while jumping around with a toy weapon.

173 allegro  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:18:14am

re: #172 Achilles Tang

Target shooting? It's not target shooting if you have to test yourself with 200 rounds. Might as well save money and blindfold yourself and light some firecrackers at your feet while jumping around with a toy weapon.

I was thinking the same thing. I don't think my husband and I together, shooting for a couple of hours once a month, went through 1000 rounds in a year.

174 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:20:24am

Morning all!

Do I need to understand what Charles wrote about Javascript?

How are you?

175 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:21:28am

re: #168 Achilles Tang

And all it would have taken to stop this maniac with body armor 3 guns and gas in the room was one "citizen" carrying a sidearm to take him down with one shot to the head! These people live in a video game fantasy world.

That is why the NRA has not commented on this event yet, beyond the normal expression of sympathy for the victims: No concealed carry pistol would have stopped this scumbag unless the shot hit him in the face or arms. Every other part of Holmes' body was armored. And in a crowded and dark theater, shooting back would likely have only increased the body count.

The NRA knows the facts above and that normal armed self defense could not have prevented this massacre. But they waiting in order to figure out the best way to address it. The very fact that an armed citizen would have made no difference here is not something a good portion of the NRA's base will want to here. No one does, since it is truly fearful to contemplate facing a situation where your extensive training and preparation simply are not enough to offset the odds against you. And those people may react badly to the truth and accuse the NRA of "weakness" or "capitulation to Obamunism" or some such nonsense.

So the NRA waits, trying to find a way both to avoid telling a lie they'll get clobbered by their critics over and avoid alienating a section of base that does not want to admit the limits of self-defense.

176 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:21:29am

re: #174 ggt

Morning all!

Do I need to understand what Charles wrote about Javascript?

How are you?

yes, there will be a test in 15 minutes

Counts as 50% of your final grade!

177 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:22:30am

Tasteless, stupid and dangerous...
Occupy Seattle Clown "Shoots" At Police With Umbrella Prop Gun

178 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:24:12am

re: #172 Achilles Tang

Target shooting? It's not target shooting if you have to test yourself with 200 rounds. Might as well save money and blindfold yourself and light some firecrackers at your feet while jumping around with a toy weapon.

Some people, and I know a few, run drills with multiple targets that examine specific threat scenarios such as car-jacking, or multiple attackers. They then practice these till they are profient in them, and that takes a good deal of ammo.

179 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:25:57am

re: #176 sattv4u2

yes, there will be a test in 15 minutes

Counts as 50% of your final grade!

Good thing I'm not taking the class for credit.

Here is my definition of Java.

180 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:26:34am

re: #174 ggt

Morning all!

Do I need to understand what Charles wrote about Javascript?

How are you?

Yes, it will be on the test.

181 Randall Gross  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:26:48am

This morning I had to block an illitertwit who was trying to tell me about "sheriah" ...

182 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:27:11am

re: #177 Killgore Trout

Tasteless, stupid and dangerous...
Occupy Seattle Clown "Shoots" At Police With Umbrella Prop Gun

[Embedded content]

Somewhere Bozo The Clown is rolling in a grave!

183 allegro  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:29:39am

re: #178 Dark_Falcon

Some people, and I know a few, run drills with multiple targets that examine specific threat scenarios such as car-jacking, or multiple attackers. They then practice these till they are profient in them, and that takes a good deal of ammo.

If only that level of training was a requirement for owning the weapons.

184 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:30:06am

re: #177 Killgore Trout

Tasteless, stupid and dangerous...
Occupy Seattle Clown "Shoots" At Police With Umbrella Prop Gun

[Embedded content]

That sort of thing can get you killed. It also demonstrates both a lack of understanding of gun safety (I don't care if it is a prop gun, unless you are actively filming you do not point it at another person, EVER!), and a tremendous lack of decency in doing that sort of "shooting" stunt only hours after 12 people had been murdered in a mass shooting.

185 Gus  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:30:49am

Iran!

186 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:30:52am

re: #177 Killgore Trout

Tasteless, stupid and dangerous...
Occupy Seattle Clown "Shoots" At Police With Umbrella Prop Gun

[Embedded content]

All those cops showed amazing restraint
Me, I would have given him an Umbrella Enema

Insert ,,, OPEN !!

187 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:31:32am

re: #183 allegro

If only that level of training was a requirement for owning the weapons.

It's a great deal more than is required for safe handling of the weapon. I'd not advocate requiring something that extensive.

188 Gus  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:31:33am

re: #181 Randall Gross

This morning I had to block an illitertwit who was trying to tell me about "sheriah" ...

Probably a former Lizard.

189 Gus  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:31:46am

re: #177 Killgore Trout

Tasteless, stupid and dangerous...
Occupy Seattle Clown "Shoots" At Police With Umbrella Prop Gun

[Embedded content]

Who cares.

190 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:32:05am

re: #186 sattv4u2

bend over and insert.

192 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:32:30am

Now, this is a headline to start your day:

Accused child foot licker blames President Obama

193 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:33:08am

re: #191 ggt

Caymans?

194 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:33:27am

re: #185 Gus

Iran!

OK, if you insist...
Olympics most wanted: Terror police fear suspect wanted over Bulgarian bus bomb could be on his way to London 2012

The man is thought to be carrying a U.S. passport under the name of David Jefferson and fled following the attack which killed six people last Wednesday in the resort of Burgas.

He has emerged as a top target for Israeli security agents who fear their athletes will be attacked by an Iranian terror squad operating in Europe.

The terrorist, who is suspected of helping the suicide bomber, is thought to have another powerful bomb similar to the one which destroyed the Israeli tourist bus.

195 Gus  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:34:16am
196 kirkspencer  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:34:20am

re: #178 Dark_Falcon

Some people, and I know a few, run drills with multiple targets that examine specific threat scenarios such as car-jacking, or multiple attackers. They then practice these till they are profient in them, and that takes a good deal of ammo.

And they are exceptions.

I see this a lot, where people use exceptions as examples. Because these exceptions do or don't do /whatever/, ...

And for what it is worth, the majority of those I know who do this reload; a large plurality casts their own.

197 palomino  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:34:38am

re: #189 Gus

Who cares.

Just one guy, but he cares a LOT. Probably way too much.

198 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:34:57am
199 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:35:10am

re: #193 PhillyPretzel

Caymans?

Mr Henry said that the super-rich move money around the globe through an "industrious bevy of professional enablers in private banking, legal, accounting and investment industries.

Other findings in Mr Henry's report include:

-At the end of 2010, the 50 leading private banks alone collectively managed more than $12.1tn in cross-border invested assets for private clients
-The three private banks handling the most assets offshore are UBS, Credit Suisse and Goldman Sachs
-Less than 100,000 people worldwide own about $9.8tn of the wealth held offshore.

200 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:35:52am

re: #197 palomino

Just one guy, but he cares a LOT. Probably way too much.

More than one

And for some, not nearly enough!

201 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:35:55am

re: #168 Achilles Tang

And all it would have taken to stop this maniac with body armor 3 guns and gas in the room was one "citizen" carrying a sidearm to take him down with one shot to the head! These people live in a video game fantasy world.

I've been quarreling with people over this. Some folks are pretty wrapped up in the fantasy.

There have been times and places when I thought one armed person could have brought about a good result in a bad situation, but this is, seriously, not it.

202 Gus  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:36:45am

re: #197 palomino

Just one guy, but he cares a LOT. Probably way too much.

Somewhere in NYC some black guy will "pull out" his cell phone and get shot 70 times be a couple of cops. Nah. Instead we hear about some "clown" that pulled out some umbrella prop gun at OCCUPY WALL STREET!! Hurr hurr. Yeah. Those umbrella prop guns have been a real problem in Murica.

203 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:37:41am

re: #202 Gus

Somewhere in NYC some black guy will "pull out" his cell phone and get shot 70 times be a couple of cops

Post the story and we'll condemn the cops for it!

That does not negate us from condemning what this twerp did

204 palomino  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:38:19am

re: #200 sattv4u2

More than one

And for some, not nearly enough!

Yawn, I guess you have a much higher threshold for the boredom of repetitious stories about a group that has fizzled out.

205 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:38:37am

re: #178 Dark_Falcon

Some people, and I know a few, run drills with multiple targets that examine specific threat scenarios such as car-jacking, or multiple attackers. They then practice these till they are profient in them, and that takes a good deal of ammo.

And the odds of running into that scenario, while just happening to be carrying a semi auto assault rifle with extended magazine, are what in your imagination?

206 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:38:50am

re: #204 palomino

Yawn, I guess you have a much higher threshold for the boredom of repetitious stories about a group that has fizzled out.

ROMNEY,,, TWITTER

There ,, did I excite you?

207 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:39:01am

re: #195 Gus

Palestinians!

So paranoid, isn't he? It's not like anything's ever gone wrong at the Olympics before.

208 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:39:20am

re: #207 SanFranciscoZionist

So paranoid, isn't he? It's not like anything's ever gone wrong at the Olympics before.

ouch

209 palomino  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:39:37am

re: #203 sattv4u2


Somewhere in NYC some black guy will "pull out" his cell phone and get shot 70 times be a couple of cops

Post the story and we'll condemn the cops for it!

Right, that kind of stuff never happens. I'm sure Amadou Diallo's family will be comforted to hear that.

210 Gus  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:39:56am

Well. Yawn. Think I had my fill of this place already. Later.

211 allegro  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:40:47am

re: #202 Gus

Somewhere in NYC some black guy will "pull out" his cell phone and get shot 70 times be a couple of cops. Nah. Instead we hear about some "clown" that pulled out some umbrella prop gun at OCCUPY WALL STREET!! Hurr hurr. Yeah. Those umbrella prop guns have been a real problem in Murica.

It was an intensely stupid thing to do. The police showed considerable restraint and professionalism. Also demonstrated that they don't feel OWSers to be particularly threatening rapey stabbers or the outcome of this stupid act in a tense situation would likely have been different.

212 palomino  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:41:20am

re: #206 sattv4u2

ROMNEY,,, TWITTER

There ,, did I excite you?

Nothing you've ever said has excited me. Rarely even interested me. Bored me quite often.

And what the fuck does Romney Twitter, a topic I've never even posted on, have to do with anything?

213 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:42:46am

re: #209 palomino

Right, that kind of stuff never happens. I'm sure Amadou Diallo's family will be comforted to hear that.

People DIDN"T condemn the cops on that? (answer ,, umm, YES ,, they did)
As a matter of fact [Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

As stated, post the story and we'll condemn it

214 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:42:53am
215 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:43:18am

re: #202 Gus

Somewhere in NYC some black guy will "pull out" his cell phone and get shot 70 times be a couple of cops. Nah. Instead we hear about some "clown" that pulled out some umbrella prop gun at OCCUPY WALL STREET!! Hurr hurr. Yeah. Those umbrella prop guns have been a real problem in Murica.

And since that happened, the NYPD has worked hard to reduce officer-involved shootings. New York today has a lower rate of people being shot by cops than Chicago or Dallas, just to give two examples. So no, Gus, the people who needed to take what happened to Amadou Diallo seriously took it very seriously and have ensured that New york cops stop crime but do their level best to avoid killing people.

216 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:43:45am

re: #212 palomino

Nothing you've ever said has excited me. Rarely even interested me. Bored me quite often.

You must be really really bored right now if this is the best tiff that you can come up with this morning. :=)

217 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:43:47am

re: #212 palomino

Nothing you've ever said has excited me. Rarely even interested me. Bored me quite often.

Yet here you are (again) engaged in conversation with me!

218 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:43:51am

bbiaf

219 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:45:26am

Guess i'm just different

Something/ one bores me, I ignore it

220 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:45:38am

re: #205 Achilles Tang

And the odds of running into that scenario, while just happening to be carrying a semi auto assault rifle with extended magazine, are what in your imagination?

That was not the question being asked. The question was about use of ammunition and buying same in bulk.

221 palomino  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:46:20am

re: #213 sattv4u2

People DIDN"T condemn the cops on that? (answer ,, umm, YES ,, they did)
As a matter of fact [Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

As stated, post the story and we'll condemn it

No, carry on with the OWS ODS...cuz ya know they've killed, raped and stabbed millions of law abiding Americans.

222 palomino  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:47:32am

re: #217 sattv4u2

Yet here you are (again) engaged in conversation with me!

I wouldn't go so far as to call it a conversation. I'm essentially just telling you that you're a boring old right wing fart with a really terrible sense of humor.

223 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:49:36am

re: #222 palomino


a boring old right wing fart

Awww,,, Iddn't that sweet

You have a pet name for me

Thanks, Schnookums

224 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:49:38am

re: #222 palomino

I wouldn't go so far as to call it a conversation. I'm essentially just telling you that you're a boring old right wing fart with a really terrible sense of humor.

Fling an insult, get a down ding.

BBL

225 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:49:40am

re: #219 sattv4u2

Guess i'm just different

Something/ one bores me, I ignore it

Outrageous!

226 allegro  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:49:50am

re: #220 Dark_Falcon

That was not the question being asked. The question was about use of ammunition and buying same in bulk.

It's the real issue however. The argument about overseeing large purchases of ammo was, I believe, the point. Why would one need such a large stock of ammo? For those who can justify it, like those very few in your example, no problem, they can still get it. For those who cannot justify it, it's a reasonable oversight, IMO.

227 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:49:57am

If I buy fertilizer in bulk, I get flagged.
If I buy ammo in bulk, I get ammo in bulk with no questions asked.
Awesomesauce.

228 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:50:13am

re: #225 Killgore Trout

Outrageous!

Sush, you boring old right wing fart !!!

(and I say that in all due respect!)

229 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:50:54am

re: #221 palomino

No, carry on with the OWS ODS...cuz ya know they've killed, raped and stabbed millions of law abiding Americans.

OWS did spawn two foiled terrorist plots so they got that going for them.
/

230 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:51:10am

re: #227 Varek Raith

If I buy fertilizer in bulk, I get flagged.
If I buy ammo in bulk, I get ammo in bulk with no questions asked.
Awesomesauce.

That's because the Constitution doesn't protect your right to own fertilizer.

231 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:51:46am

re: #228 sattv4u2

Sush, you boring old right wing fart !!!

(and I say that in all due respect!)

Speaking of old right wing farts: Red beans and rice on the menu this week. Even the cats won;t sleep with me.

232 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:51:50am

re: #230 SanFranciscoZionist

That's because the Constitution doesn't protect your right to own fertilizer.

So...
Where's my tank?

233 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:52:35am

re: #231 Killgore Trout

Speaking of old right wing farts: Red beans and rice on the menu this week. Even the cats won;t sleep with me.

Upside

You'll drown out the froggie noises!!

234 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:53:32am

re: #232 Varek Raith

It is back ordered. It is all of those custom items you asked for. //

235 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:53:54am

And on that note, even a boring old right wing fart needs to take a shower and take MRS. boring old right wing fart out to brunch!

236 allegro  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:54:10am

re: #231 Killgore Trout

Speaking of old right wing farts: Red beans and rice on the menu this week. Even the cats won;t sleep with me.

Living alone has it's advantages. It means no Beano in the budget.

237 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:54:52am

re: #220 Dark_Falcon

That was not the question being asked. The question was about use of ammunition and buying same in bulk.

The discussion is really about why people spend so much money on practicing scenarios that will never happen to them, except in their apocalyptic imaginations.

There are video games, paintball gamers and lots of exciting fantasy outlets that don't involve real practice in how to kill many people.

Oh, and join the military or the police. They could do that too.

238 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:54:58am

re: #232 Varek Raith

So...
Where's my tank?

There's a WWII reenactment group down in San Bernardino that's got one. They're very proud of it.

239 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:54:59am

re: #205 Achilles Tang

And the odds of running into that scenario, while just happening to be carrying a semi auto assault rifle with extended magazine, are what in your imagination?

Depends on a few things - what your job is for example. The majority of the people I know that run those drills are bodyguards. In their case, it's just normal training. I'm not too likely to ever get car jacked but then I'm a stay at home dad. I'd rather run through a flat of 500 rounds of shot gun shells in an afternoon of trap.

240 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:56:15am

re: #238 SanFranciscoZionist

There's a WWII reenactment group down in San Bernardino that's got one. They're very proud of it.

Damn.
That's way the hell over there...

241 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:57:02am

re: #227 Varek Raith

If I buy fertilizer in bulk, I get flagged.
If I buy ammo in bulk, I get ammo in bulk with no questions asked.
Awesomesauce.

Until McVeigh came along, you could buy all the bulk fertilizer you wanted and no one noticed or cared. Funny how things like that have to happen before anything changes?

242 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:57:40am

re: #241 William Barnett-Lewis

Until McVeigh came along, you could buy all the bulk fertilizer you wanted and no one noticed or cared. Funny how things like that have to happen before anything changes?

I guess we haven't had a big enough massacre yet.

243 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:58:34am

re: #238 SanFranciscoZionist

There's a WWII reenactment group down in San Bernardino that's got one. They're very proud of it.

Soviet. I have no idea how they got it shipped to San Bernardino. Probably cost more than the tank itself.

244 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:58:50am

re: #240 Varek Raith

Damn.
That's way the hell over there...

There's a lot of open space.

245 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:59:25am

re: #244 SanFranciscoZionist

There's a lot of open space.

Great thing about tanks is that they make their own open space!

246 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 8:59:37am

re: #243 SanFranciscoZionist

That and the former USSR is selling off stuff as fast as they can to raise the $$$.

247 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 9:00:24am

re: #243 SanFranciscoZionist

Soviet. I have no idea how they got it shipped to San Bernardino. Probably cost more than the tank itself.

Do they have a website?

248 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 9:01:41am

re: #246 PhillyPretzel

That and the former USSR is selling off stuff as fast as they can to raise the $$$.

Yeah. They got it cheap, brought it over, and got it running. Now it tools around on their 'battlefields'. You have to get qualified to ride on it.

The German units they fight have not, for some reason, been able to get an authentic tank of their own.

;)

249 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 9:02:33am

re: #247 Varek Raith

Do they have a website?

I don't know, but I think they at least had an e-mail list, so probably. It was my dad's interest. He went so far as to buy a period Moisin-Nagant before he got sick. I could ask him.

250 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 9:04:54am

[Link: www.milweb.net...]

I want.

251 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 9:05:44am

re: #220 Dark_Falcon

That was not the question being asked. The question was about use of ammunition and buying same in bulk.

When my son was practicing alot and my husband was at the Gun Club every weekend --volunteering and shooting, we often had that much ammo in the house. He'd buy it in bulk to save money, then use it up. Saved a lot of money that way.

Now, they aren't shooting so much, so no need to have the ammo.

252 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 9:09:34am

There are also a lot of retired guys out there who LOVE, and I do mean LOVE, to shoot trap and skeet. It becomes their thing to do with the guys every week. They also buy ammo in bulk, because they go thru so much of it.

They sit around and brag to each other about what a good deal they go on the ammo, when they are not telling fishing stories.

253 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 9:09:57am

re: #239 William Barnett-Lewis

Depends on a few things - what your job is for example. The majority of the people I know that run those drills are bodyguards. In their case, it's just normal training. I'm not too likely to ever get car jacked but then I'm a stay at home dad. I'd rather run through a flat of 500 rounds of shot gun shells in an afternoon of trap.

Skeet shooting is one area where a lot of shooting is required to practice, but that is not practicing fantasies. We are not talking of people who ever plan to be bodyguards, swat team members or in the military.

To put real life in perspective, most police officers go through their entire careers without ever firing a weapon at anyone.

254 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 9:15:47am

re: #222 palomino

And BTW. Because I'm to the right of you on "a" topic you profile me as a boring old right wing fart??

If you know me so well, please tell me my positions on
Gay Marriage
Drug legalization
Obamas Birth Certificate
Gun control

255 A Mom Anon  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 9:16:16am

re: #220 Dark_Falcon
Your average gun owner isn't going to need 6000 rounds of ammo though. I get that it's cheaper in bulk,most things are. But it might be a good idea to at the very least look at some sort of permit or something for anyone purchasing that much.

As to the argument that we already have gun laws,yes we do and many times they're weakened because of politics. But we also have alot of potentially dangerous loopholes,like the lax oversight of gun shows. You can literally go to one of these things and fill the car up with any sort of weaponry under the sun and no one bats an eyelash. Or,buying guns and ammo online. Really? It just shouldn't be "convenient" to buy all this stuff,not to mention all the body armor and police issue stuff that the public has access to now. You want guns? Fine,but it shouldn't be easier than grabbing some fast food for lunch.

256 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 9:16:37am

re: #253 Achilles Tang

most police officers go through their entire careers without ever firing a weapon at anyone.

True, but they do fire thousands of rounds from a variety of weapons at a range

257 A Mom Anon  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 9:23:14am

re: #256 sattv4u2

Yes,and that is part of training for law enforcement. There's training,regulations,supervision and the like happening there. It's not in the least bit comforting for me to know my neighbor has 50 different high powered weapons and thousands of rounds of ammo because they're worried about government takeovers or criminal gangs coming to plunder and pillage or whatever.

No laws are going to prevent every tragedy,but we have to start somewhere,and we could look at what other countries with less incidences of mass shootings are doing for their citizens and see if any of that could work here,or if we could modify those laws for America's safety.

258 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 9:28:55am
259 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 9:32:00am

re: #257 A Mom Anon

Reality is that in 1994 the AWB cost the Democratic Party 54 seats and control of the House. No gun control bill will make it out of committee in either chamber. The difference in views between urban and rural on these issues is a huge gulf and I don't really see how to change it but I can say that no legislation is going to happen to do so.

260 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 9:32:43am

Morning Lizards.
How the NRA pushed the right to pack heat anywhere.
Look, I'm all for gun rights. However, when my state, Ohio, passes a law that makes it permissible to carry a concealed fire arm into bars and restaurants, it passes into the realm of the stupid.

Of course the argument is, that the weapon holder isn't allowed to buy alcohol, but what if? What's the bartender going to do? Pat everyone down?
I mean, hasn't anyone ever heard of liquid courage, or a mean drunk?

261 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 9:33:55am

re: #257 A Mom Anon

Yes,and that is part of training for law enforcement. There's training,regulations,supervision and the like happening there. It's not in the least bit comforting for me to know my neighbor has 50 different high powered weapons and thousands of rounds of ammo.

No laws are going to prevent every tragedy,but we have to start somewhere,and we could look at what other countries with less incidences of mass shootings are doing for their citizens and see if any of that could work here,or if we could modify those laws for America's safety.

And this doesn't bother me at all. I guess because I grew-up around legal guns and responsible gun owners . . .I don't know.

I've never encountered the fear of guns that I have in the last 10 years.

262 Targetpractice  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 9:37:32am

re: #259 William Barnett-Lewis

Reality is that in 1994 the AWB cost the Democratic Party 54 seats and control of the House. No gun control bill will make it out of committee in either chamber. The difference in views between urban and rural on these issues is a huge gulf and I don't really see how to change it but I can say that no legislation is going to happen to do so.

Not for lack of trying...

Frank Lautenberg Revives Gun Control Bill Post Aurora

263 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 9:37:48am

I think some of our issues are obvious. We're heavily armed, we have a lousy mental health care system, and we're a nation of movers and drifters, so someone who is going off the rails may find it easier to avoid notice than he would in, say, Estonia. (Which has a higher murder rate than the U.S., I discover, so maybe not the best example.)

The mass shooting pattern isn't uniquely American. You see similar examples in the U.K., Germany, Finland, Australia...we just do it more frequently.

Canada, England and Australia, who I consider to probably be closest to us culturally in some ways, have murder rates a fraction of ours. I suspect, reluctantly, that it's down to gun access and ownership. (Yes, I know everyone in Switzerland is armed to the teeth--by the state--but that is a different issue.)

But we can't turn into Canada just by wishing it so, and playing endless games of 'maybe if we...' with different sorts of guns isn't doing much.

264 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 9:38:36am

bbl

265 A Mom Anon  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 9:38:48am

re: #261 ggt

I'm not scared of guns,I have owned them in the past and had proper training when I was young. My grandfathers both hunted and had rifles and other weapons.

The problem isn't responsible people. If everyone with a gun was well trained and responsible,no laws would be needed. People are frightened because of irresponsible or angry people who somehow think a gun is the answer to life's problems.

In this political climate it will be impossible to change the laws to make it harder to buy guns. I get that. But I have to wonder what absolute horror has to occur for this country to grow up and gain some wisdom and common sense.

266 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 9:39:15am

re: #261 ggt

And this doesn't bother me at all. I guess because I grew-up around legal guns and responsible gun owners . . .I don't know.

I've never encountered the fear of guns that I have in the last 10 years.

Some of it is also, I suspect, area. If I'm living in the country and my neighbors have a shitload of ammo, I assume they hunt.

If I'm living in my little NoCal burb and the neighbors have a shitload of ammo, less savory suspicions arise.

267 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 9:41:31am

Don't worry, nothing will change.
There will be more and worse massacres in the future.
I guess we've decided that is a acceptable outcome.

268 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 9:42:03am

re: #267 Varek Raith

Don't worry, nothing will change.
There will be more and worse massacres in the future.
I guess we've decided that is a acceptable outcome.

This is true.

269 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 9:42:33am

re: #222 palomino

re: #254 sattv4u2

And BTW. Because I'm to the right of you on "a" topic you profile me as a boring old right wing fart??

If you know me so well, please tell me my positions on
Gay Marriage
Drug legalization
Obamas Birth Certificate
Gun control

270 palomino  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 9:42:48am

re: #224 Dark_Falcon

Fling an insult, get a down ding.

BBL

Who are you, the self-appointed LGF hall monitor?

271 A Mom Anon  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 9:43:24am

re: #266 SanFranciscoZionist

Exactly,I live in suburban Atlanta and I have neighbors who are responsible gun owners,even the kids. But they don't own high powered weapons,tactical equipment and store thousands of rounds of ammo.

I grew up in rural Ohio,near Appalachia. Everyone had hunting rifles and shotguns. It wasn't unusual to walk into someone's house and see a gun safe or a gun display case in the living room. My dad's father was a sheriff,he also had his service revolver and a rifle for work. That's not the type of person I worry about.

272 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 9:43:30am

re: #270 palomino

Who are you, the self-appointed LGF hall monitor?

No
We voted him in!

273 palomino  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 9:43:36am

re: #269 sattv4u2

re: #254 sattv4u2

[Embedded content]

OK, you're a boring old Romney wing fart. Does that make you feel better?

274 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 9:43:52am

re: #271 A Mom Anon

I live in suburban Atlanta

Howdy Neighbor!

275 Targetpractice  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 9:44:05am

re: #267 Varek Raith

Don't worry, nothing will change.
There will be more and worse massacres in the future.
I guess we've decided that is a acceptable outcome.

Pretty much. For lack of a better word, the gun lobby "won" the argument and, barring a major shift in politics, can be assured that no major effort to impose new gun regulations will succeed. Those of us who disagree with that will just have to live with tragedies like Aurora.

276 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 9:44:07am

re: #262 Targetpractice

Not for lack of trying...

Frank Lautenberg Revives Gun Control Bill Post Aurora

Red meat for his base. He knows it won't pass.

277 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 9:44:51am

re: #273 palomino

OK, you're a boring old Romney wing fart. Does that make you feel better?

My "feelings" aren't connected to you at all

That stated, I see no answers to the questions posed in #254

278 palomino  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 9:47:14am

re: #226 allegro

It's the real issue however. The argument about overseeing large purchases of ammo was, I believe, the point. Why would one need such a large stock of ammo? For those who can justify it, like those very few in your example, no problem, they can still get it. For those who cannot justify it, it's a reasonable oversight, IMO.

A very good question, the kind that's asked in countries that have comparatively very low gun murder rates. But we still hold on to our Wild West traditions a little tightly...and, as someone above pointed out, we also indulge in the fantasy that civilians sitting in movie theaters, restaurants, shopping malls, classrooms (jeez) can stop mass murder regardless of the situation.

279 palomino  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 9:52:41am

ACORN!!re: #277 sattv4u2

My "feelings" aren't connected to you at all

That stated, I see no answers to the questions posed in #254

Why would I answer that incredibly boring question?

The fact that you even include "Obama's birth certificate" as if it were a real issue is just sad.

280 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 9:53:32am

K kiddies

Off to brunch (re: #279 palomino

ACORN!!re: #277 sattv4u2

Why would I answer that incredibly boring question?

The fact that you even include "Obama's birth certificate" as if it were a real issue is just sad.

The fact that you have profiled me as something is even sadder!

281 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 9:53:39am

re: #278 palomino

A very good question, the kind that's asked in countries that have comparatively very low gun murder rates. But we still hold on to our Wild West traditions a little tightly...and, as someone above pointed out, we also indulge in the fantasy that civilians sitting in movie theaters, restaurants, shopping malls, classrooms (jeez) can stop mass murder regardless of the situation.

What's interesting is that I don't often hear of this happening.

We ARE in fact, armed to the teeth as a nation. I think only Yemen's got a higher guns-per-capita rate, unless it's someplace like Somalia where no one can get a count. At least 25% of American men own guns. Half of all Americans live in homes with guns. Many states issue concealed-carry or open-carry permits without undue restriction.

OK, what are the actual statistics on civilians stopping crimes in progress with legally owned guns? Are these largely home-invasion situations? How frequently does concealed carry play a role?

I can think of some examples, but generally they involve off-duty law enforcement, which may reflect my region rather than the nation's averages.

I would be really interested to know what this actually looks like, statistically, since the implication is always that decent folks would be like lambs before ravening wolves if they weren't armed.

282 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 9:54:04am

And on that note, this boring old Romney wing fart is off to brunch

283 palomino  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 9:55:38am

re: #280 sattv4u2

K kiddies

Off to brunch (

The fact that you have profiled me as something is even sadder!

The only thing I've profiled you as is a boring commenter with few, if any, interesting insights. Your posts are poorly thought out. It's nothing personal, I'm just being honest.

284 Targetpractice  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 9:59:28am

re: #278 palomino

A very good question, the kind that's asked in countries that have comparatively very low gun murder rates. But we still hold on to our Wild West traditions a little tightly...and, as someone above pointed out, we also indulge in the fantasy that civilians sitting in movie theaters, restaurants, shopping malls, classrooms (jeez) can stop mass murder regardless of the situation.

We indulge in that fantasy because what's the alternative, other than an admission and acceptance of the reality that owning and carrying a gun does not insure one's safety against crime? That there's always a criminal who's better armed, better prepared, or just crazy enough not to give a damn if you wave a gun in his face. That's the downside to our independent streak as a nation, our hatred of feeling powerless or needing to rely upon others to protect us.

285 palomino  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 10:03:52am

re: #281 SanFranciscoZionist

What's interesting is that I don't often hear of this happening.

We ARE in fact, armed to the teeth as a nation. I think only Yemen's got a higher guns-per-capita rate, unless it's someplace like Somalia where no one can get a count. At least 25% of American men own guns. Half of all Americans live in homes with guns. Many states issue concealed-carry or open-carry permits without undue restriction.

OK, what are the actual statistics on civilians stopping crimes in progress with legally owned guns? Are these largely home-invasion situations? How frequently does concealed carry play a role?

I can think of some examples, but generally they involve off-duty law enforcement, which may reflect my region rather than the nation's averages.

I would be really interested to know what this actually looks like, statistically, since the implication is always that decent folks would be like lambs before ravening wolves if they weren't armed.

I don't know the stats either, but I'm sure it happens occasionally that an armed civilian prevents a crime and saves a life.

But having the legal right to buy 1000's of rounds of ammo, an arsenal of guns, tear gas and body armor is a completely different question. Being able to build one's own mini-army isn't really the same as having the right to protect one's home, business or even carry on the street with a permit. Rather it's overkill and the fact that so few question it is symptomatic of a bizarre fetishization of guns and the delusion that they're the crux of the solution to mass murder.

286 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 10:04:56am

National Research Council on guns and violence.

From the article:
Current research on guns and violent crime often misses the mark, leaving unanswered the questions that most people have. The science base is too weak to settle policy disputes or to support clear-cut positions about what can be done to prevent or control gun violence, says a new report from the National Research Council.

287 palomino  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 10:11:36am

re: #284 Targetpractice

We indulge in that fantasy because what's the alternative, other than an admission and acceptance of the reality that owning and carrying a gun does not insure one's safety against crime? That there's always a criminal who's better armed, better prepared, or just crazy enough not to give a damn if you wave a gun in his face. That's the downside to our independent streak as a nation, our hatred of feeling powerless or needing to rely upon others to protect us.

But accepting that reality is better than continuing to indulge in this fantasy. And acceptance of that reality is the first step toward changing it, as much as that's possible. I don't know the solution for the US. Euro style gun control works well over there. But it wouldn't work here, at least not in our lifetimes. Continuing to indulge in this fantasy, however, as if it were the solution, insures that we will make little headway in the attempts to prevent the next Columbine, Virginia Tech, or Aurora.

288 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 10:15:49am

re: #256 sattv4u2


most police officers go through their entire careers without ever firing a weapon at anyone.

True, but they do fire thousands of rounds from a variety of weapons at a range

Yes, but the reference was regarding people who never intend to be a police officer or similar, yet practice as if they imagine being in those worst case scenarios all the time.

289 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 10:16:35am

This is the reaction to an article that listed the names of concealed carry holders published in his newspaper. It was perfectly legal...
Mother Jones
The reaction was fast and furious. "I was getting phone calls from all over the country, hundreds of phone calls," Westerhold says. "There were so many nut jobs. There were so many threats: 'I am going to kill you' and 'You should die slowly'."
Then the Buckeye Firearms Association got involved, Westerhold says, "in a very pro-active way." Using public records, the group posted on its website Westerhold's auto records, a traffic citation, a partial Social Security number, an address for property he owned, and details about his divorce and ex-wife. It also included information on how one might find out which public school Westerhold's 12-year-old daughter attended, which bus she took there, and how a photo of the girl from her school yearbook could probably be found in the local library.

290 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 10:17:04am

re: #286 OhNoZombies!

From the article:
Current research on guns and violent crime often misses the mark, leaving unanswered the questions that most people have. The science base is too weak to settle policy disputes or to support clear-cut positions about what can be done to prevent or control gun violence, says a new report from the National Research Council.

Research and statistics will never have a bearing on this issue in the USA.

291 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 10:17:40am

re: #281 SanFranciscoZionist

Has this study been vetted?
"here are only about 108,000 incidents of self-defense with a firearm annually, according to the 1994 National Crime Victimization Survey."

Use of guns for defense often goes unreported in the news. Unless shots are fired and somebody gets hit, it fails to make the cut. Quite often just the sight of a gun ends the attack. That's how it worked for me many years ago. An angry man was destroying everything on my front porch, trying to force his way into my place. My wife called 911 and I pulled out my shotgun and I loudly racked a round into it. I yelled at the man that if he kicked in the door I would shoot him. He stopped trying to get in and went away to be arrested later. It was night that took LAPD an hour to arrive. About 58 minutes after my threat ran the bastard off.

But let me admit the % is extremely low as compared to gun ownership. It might (wild guess) be similar ratio to the number of lightning rods compared to lightning strikes on the rods.

What I might object to is a low number being used to say it's not worth allowing them. Who makes that decision? I would say we do as qualified individuals. Make your own personal choice and act with great responsibility in any and every case. Technology is making it cheap and easy to go with cameras and alarms. For many people that's the best choice. No gun.

292 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 10:18:37am

re: #290 Achilles Tang

Nope.

293 kirkspencer  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 10:25:24am

re: #256 sattv4u2


most police officers go through their entire careers without ever firing a weapon at anyone.

True, but they do fire thousands of rounds from a variety of weapons at a range

snerk. snicker. gasp.

no.

The department might. Most officers will fire qualification, only. That's less than 100 bullets, once per year or quarter (depending on local regulations).

294 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 10:29:15am

re: #291 Daniel Ballard

As the cliche puts it, "When seconds count, the police are only minutes away."

295 Romantic Heretic  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 10:30:34am

re: #178 Dark_Falcon

Some people, and I know a few, run drills with multiple targets that examine specific threat scenarios such as car-jacking, or multiple attackers. They then practice these till they are profient in them, and that takes a good deal of ammo.

I want everyone with a pistol, SMG or assault rifle to do this sort of thing. It isn't the fact that people carry firearms that upsets me. It's the fact that the only thing far too many of them know about a gun is which end of it the bang comes out of.

296 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 10:32:50am

re: #293 kirkspencer
Well its enough to keep several facilities booked solid at the range I run along with the rest of the BOD. Thousands of rounds fired by a few dozen officers from CHP to the IRS.
(edit) The attack/robbery/rape/gang fight is often over and done by the time they get there. Actually rolling up on a violent crime in progress is rare enough that they do more investigating and arresting than fighting and shooting.

When you look at the "door kickers" like SWAT and HRT, well those guys do shoot a lot. Endless tactical exercises.

297 allegro  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 10:36:20am

As a handgun owner, I put it about third on my list of valuable defenses. The top of the list is my dogs. Burglars do not like dogs - they make noise and they can bite. Much better than an alarm system. When we're out walking, no one is going to try to mug me. They wouldn't get close enough or be able to sneak up on me.

The second is my martial arts/self defense training. I'm much more likely to be in danger from close contact than someone shooting me from afar. In sudden, close contact attacks, a gun wouldn't help even if I had it on me. Knowing effective physical defense moves certainly do.

I can only think of a couple of scenarios where my handgun might be an effective weapon or deterrent.

298 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 10:38:37am

re: #172 Achilles Tang

Target shooting? It's not target shooting if you have to test yourself with 200 rounds. Might as well save money and blindfold yourself and light some firecrackers at your feet while jumping around with a toy weapon.

Not so. There are sports that require 150-300 rds to finish the competition, and the sport itself is designed around practical/tactical shooting. Steel challenge. IPSC. USPSA. IDPA. I used to reload 1000 to 1200 .45 acp at a session. That would last me a month or a bit more.

299 Romantic Heretic  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 10:38:52am

re: #238 SanFranciscoZionist

There's a WWII reenactment group down in San Bernardino that's got one. They're very proud of it.

Cool. A Sherman I'm betting. I'll google them.

300 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 10:39:31am

OT: I just posted a page on Pennsylvania's answer for those who need ID to vote. [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

301 Renaissance_Man  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 10:44:30am

re: #281 SanFranciscoZionist

What's interesting is that I don't often hear of this happening.

We ARE in fact, armed to the teeth as a nation. I think only Yemen's got a higher guns-per-capita rate, unless it's someplace like Somalia where no one can get a count. At least 25% of American men own guns. Half of all Americans live in homes with guns. Many states issue concealed-carry or open-carry permits without undue restriction.

OK, what are the actual statistics on civilians stopping crimes in progress with legally owned guns? Are these largely home-invasion situations? How frequently does concealed carry play a role?

I can think of some examples, but generally they involve off-duty law enforcement, which may reflect my region rather than the nation's averages.

I would be really interested to know what this actually looks like, statistically, since the implication is always that decent folks would be like lambs before ravening wolves if they weren't armed.

The US has almost double the rate of civilian gun ownership than Yemen, the next closest. This is by far the most heavily armed nation on the planet.

There are no good statistics on crime prevention with legally owned guns. The gun lobby estimates of 'millions' are based entirely on fantasy with no even vaguely plausible numbers to back them up. A few such stories exist, and as with many things that are sufficiently rare that there are only a few anecdotes about the event in question, it makes you wonder how rare these particular unicorns are. Certainly the fact that countries with similar culture, wealth and demographics to the US but with almost no private gun ownership have comparable or lower rates of violent crime, rather than a helpless citizenry endlessly plagued by armed, crazed, ravening criminals, suggests that armed self-defence is a canard.

However, the casualty rates from firearms are well-chronicled. People notice a few of the shooting sprees and massacres, such as this one, and Virginia Tech, and Columbine. Most go unreported and unnoticed, because America as a whole simply doesn't especially care about a small massacre here or there. How many of us knew about the mass shooting that one of the victims of Aurora survived only a few weeks ago? How many of us knew about the mass school shooting that happened the day before Trayvon Martin was killed? I didn't until yesterday. And as terrible as this ridiculous rate of mass shootings is, I argue that it pales beside the constant, background casualty rate, where people shoot each other in domestic situations, in street altercations, in suicidal whims, and the like. The few deaths, in ones and twos, that happen every day, that we just accept. The massacres every month that we simply accept, because as a nation, America worships the gun. Because we feel uncomfortable and guilty about even thinking that maybe this many guns around might not be a good thing. Because we have become conditioned by the feeling that to do anything other than mutely accept this casualty rate is unpatriotic, that it shows you don't 'love the Constitution' or some such rubbish.

Massacres exist elsewhere, yes, in places that have strict firearm laws and small rates of gun ownership. The difference is that in these places, massacres are rare enough to be major news. And they always spawn changes, rather than mute acceptance. In Australia, the Port Arthur massacre was the last in a string of three or four that had occurred over the previous year or two. After it happened, firearm laws were severely tightened, with widespread public acceptance, because Australia has no religion of the gun. That was in 1996. In the intervening 16 years, there have been no mass shootings in Australia, the nation with probably the closest cultural similarity to the US.

Makes you think.

302 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 10:53:24am

re: #298 Daniel Ballard

Not so. There are sports that require 150-300 rds to finish the competition, and the sport itself is designed around practical/tactical shooting. Steel challenge. IPSC. USPSA. IDPA. I used to reload 1000 to 1200 .45 acp at a session. That would last me a month or a bit more.

OK but we are not talking of competition sports, we are talking of "training" for fantasies.

303 Romantic Heretic  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 10:54:56am

While googling for that re-enactment group I found this website: Tanks for Sale.

They've got an effen SA6 Gainful vehicle for sale. I don't know if I should be excited or scared.

304 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 10:56:23am

re: #303 Romantic Heretic

While googling for that re-enactment group I found this website: Tanks for Sale.

They've got an effen SA6 Gainful vehicle for sale. I don't know if I should be excited or scared.

Duck hunting.

305 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 10:57:05am

re: #302 Achilles Tang

OK but we are not talking of competition sports, we are talking of "training" for fantasies.

The sport is the training/practice. That's the point. It's a safe way to get very good at shooting under pressure.

306 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 11:00:09am

re: #301 Renaissance_Man

I'm thinking the 24 hr. news cycle has something to do with it. At a certain point, the constant repetition numbs you.
I have a few family members who stopped watching the news altogether.

307 allegro  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 11:00:28am

I believe the people Tang is talking about are the ones who are not law enforcement, body guards, or others for whom this training is applicable to their jobs. I think he's talking about the weekend warrior types who are training for some fantasy scenario in their heads of government take-over or something.

(I know I'll be corrected if I'm wrong.)

308 Targetpractice  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 11:01:14am

re: #303 Romantic Heretic

While googling for that re-enactment group I found this website: Tanks for Sale.

They've got an effen SA6 Gainful vehicle for sale. I don't know if I should be excited or scared.

I don't know, there's a few trucks or motorcycles there I wouldn't mind owning. Certainly would turn a few heads riding into town.

309 Romantic Heretic  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 11:06:20am

re: #308 Targetpractice

A BRDM would be cool for tooling around town.

310 Renaissance_Man  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 11:08:06am

re: #306 OhNoZombies!

I'm thinking the 24 hr. news cycle has something to do with it. At a certain point, the constant repetition numbs you.
I have a few family members who stopped watching the news altogether.

That's not it. If people care about it, the networks will run it ad nauseam. Look at all the things that are run endlessly - reality TV, E! news, FOX political porn, sports talk shows, the same things again and again. Sure, they make lots of us ill and bemoaning the fact that the 24 hour news cycle makes you dumber, but the fact is that people, somewhere, care about Brett Favre's penis and Kim Kardashian and MLB trades and whatever random conspiracy nonsense FOX makes up, and so the networks will cater to that. Americans as a whole don't care about the insane level of firearm violence. If they did, we'd hear about it. And they don't care because, culturally, America believes it's unpatriotic and blasphemous to think ill of the gun.

311 Targetpractice  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 11:08:34am

re: #309 Romantic Heretic

A BRDM would be cool for tooling around town.

The BMP-1 would be useful in traffic jams.

312 Big Joe  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 11:16:46am
313 allegro  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 11:20:31am

re: #312 Big Joe

Romney gave Olympics contract to troubled company in which he owns large stake.

Mattel Toys, troubled firm partly owned by Bain, signs on as Olympics Sponsor, 9/25/1999

Romney: $98,000,000 stake in Mattel in 1999? He Announces Olympic sponsorship as stock crashes

You think Romney might use his position for personal enrichment? No, say it ain't so!

//

314 Eventual Carrion  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 12:01:31pm

re: #304 Varek Raith

Duck hunting.

Rabbit season!

315 engineer cat  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 1:24:08pm

can a "minifier" really be called a "compiler"?

2. Computer Science A program that translates another program written in a high-level language into machine language so that it can be executed.

Youth Wants To Know!!!

316 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jul 22, 2012 2:11:48pm

re: #315 engineer cat

can a "minifier" really be called a "compiler"?

2. Computer Science A program that translates another program written in a high-level language into machine language so that it can be executed.

Youth Wants To Know!!!

Here's the deal:

The Closure Compiler is a tool for making JavaScript download and run faster. It is a true compiler for JavaScript. Instead of compiling from a source language to machine code, it compiles from JavaScript to better JavaScript. It parses your JavaScript, analyzes it, removes dead code and rewrites and minimizes what's left. It also checks syntax, variable references, and types, and warns about common JavaScript pitfalls.


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