Romney in Israel: Palestinian Culture Is Inferior

Gaffetastic

PoliticsJuly 2012 • Views: 28,111

All Mitt Romney had to do in Israel to avoid another embarrassment was to just praise his hosts and refrain from disparaging remarks — but it’s almost as if he can’t help himself: Romney Comments on Palestinians Draw Criticism.

Speaking to roughly four dozen donors at the King David Hotel in Jerusalem, Mr. Romney suggested that cultural differences between the Israelis and the Palestinians were the reason the Israelis were so much more economically successful than the Palestinians. He also vastly understated the income disparities between the two groups. …

“Culture makes all the difference,” Mr. Romney said. “And as I come here and I look out over this city and consider the accomplishments of the people of this nation, I recognize the power of at least culture and a few other things.”

“As you come here and you see the G.D.P. per capita, for instance, in Israel which is about $21,000, and compare that with the G.D.P. per capita just across the areas managed by the Palestinian Authority, which is more like $10,000 per capita, you notice such a dramatically stark difference in economic vitality,” he said.

In an interview with the Associated Press, Saeb Erekat, a senior aide to President Mahmoud Abbas of the Palestinian Authority, called Mr. Romney’s remarks “racist.”

“It is a racist statement and this man doesn’t realize that the Palestinian economy cannot reach its potential because there is an Israeli occupation,” Mr. Erekat said. “It seems to me this man lacks information, knowledge, vision and understanding of this region and its people.”

In addition to offending people with whom he’s going to have to work if elected president, Romney’s comments were also factually way off.

Mr. Romney understated the difference between per capita incomes by a wide margin, suggesting that Israelis earn about twice what Palestinians make.

In fact, according to an estimate by the Central Intelligence Agency, in 2009 Israel had a per capita GDP of roughly $29,800, while in 2008 — the last year the C.I.A. has numbers on their Web site for the Palestinians — the per capita G.D.P. of the West Bank and Gaza was $2,900.

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99 comments

erik_t Mon, Jul 30, 2012 10:04:51am

You didn't build that. Your culture built that!

Wait, what?

Destro Mon, Jul 30, 2012 10:08:16am

I recall Gingrich during the GOP debates called Palestinians an "artificial or invented people" which many analysts thought he said so he could secure money from sugar daddy Sheldon Adelson.

After meeting with Adelson in Jerusalem could he have been told to say that in exchange for Adelson's support?

Romantic Heretic Mon, Jul 30, 2012 10:09:54am

Like I've been saying recently, Romney does not live in the same place we do. His loyalty belongs to his class and he has no interest at all in anything else. Even his chase after the Presidency is based on aiding class, not his country.

So it's no surprise he sounds so out of touch because he is out of touch.

Kragar Mon, Jul 30, 2012 10:09:59am

Not just culture, but the hand of god

Mitt Romney 'providence' comments in Israel outrage Palestinians

He added: "I am overwhelmingly impressed with the hand of providence, whenever it chooses to apply itself, and also the greatness of the human spirit, and how individuals who reach for greatness and have purpose above themselves are able to build and accomplish things that could only be done by a species created in the image of God."

jaunte Mon, Jul 30, 2012 10:10:14am

From a positive Amazon review of The Wealth and Poverty of Nations: Why Some Are So Rich and Some So Poor:

On the plus side, Landes offers a wealth of fascinating anecdotes, introductory information on the history of technology that was new to me, a clear and definite argument, and above all gives the reader some sense of the importance of culture in the economic realm. Although I personally feel that Landes overstates the importance of culture, the points he makes do have some validity and are generally under appreciated. Moreover, the author is remarkably fair minded for someone advocating a controversial thesis.

Don't be fooled by the reviewers that make fun of the author for suggesting that eating with chopsticks has given Asians manual dexterity that is advantageous to their high-tech manufacturing sector. In fairness to the author, this statement is a single sentence in a 500 page book and he immediately admits that most of his colleagues smirk when they hear it.

On the minus side, the author verges on severe cultural stereotypes a few too many times. The Asians are all thrifty and hard working while the Latins have been brain washed by the Catholic church. Landes more or less ignores several non-cultural challenges that poor countries face: unfair pressure from wealthy countries to open their markets, scarcity of capital & technology, a brain drain that leaves the best and brightest in the developed world. Finally, a remarkable failure is that Landes doesn't examine the idea that cultural values may be largely determined by the material & economic conditions of a country.

[Link: www.amazon.com...]

blueraven Mon, Jul 30, 2012 10:12:00am

With people like John Bolton as Romney foreign policy advisers, this should come as no big surprise.

Interesting Times Mon, Jul 30, 2012 10:12:44am

A Brit, a Palestinain, and a Polish guy walk into a bar.Not because they like each other, but just to vent about Mitt Romney.
— GOP Unplugged (@GOPunplugged) July 30, 2012

darthstar Mon, Jul 30, 2012 10:13:26am

So, Mitt Romney went to Israel and praised Jewish people for their money-handling skills? Sigh. Just... sigh.
— Hunter (@HunterDK) July 30, 2012

Lidane Mon, Jul 30, 2012 10:15:10am

Because really, who needs diplomacy in Israel or the Middle East?

freetoken Mon, Jul 30, 2012 10:16:50am

“Culture makes all the difference,” Mr. Romney said.

And of course, we all know which^* culture is tops.

_{*_Anglo-Saxon}

Kragar Mon, Jul 30, 2012 10:17:55am

re: #9 Lidane

Because really, who needs diplomacy in Israel or the Middle East?

Diplomacy is for pussies.

Romney Lowers Threshold For Military Involvement In Iran, Says He’d Back Israeli Strike

b_sharp Mon, Jul 30, 2012 10:19:17am

re: #9 Lidane

Because really, who needs diplomacy in Israel or the Middle East?

Diplomacy is over rated. Having a big stick in your pants is what is important.

b_sharp Mon, Jul 30, 2012 10:20:34am

re: #10 freetoken

And of course, we all know which^* culture is tops.

_{*_Anglo-Saxon}

Scottish, English, German, Polish, yup I'm Anglo-Saxon. Damn I'm good!

Obdicut Mon, Jul 30, 2012 10:21:18am

Mitt isn't wrong that culture has a lot to do with prosperity, but the two things are not one the product of the other; they're innately intertwined. This is why the Roma are fucked, for example, but blaming them for it is both missing the point and victim-bashing.

Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Jul 30, 2012 10:21:45am

I'm really tired of The Mitster. I'll be glad when this election is over.

jamesfirecat Mon, Jul 30, 2012 10:22:28am

re: #4 Kragar

Not just culture, but the hand of god

Mitt Romney 'providence' comments in Israel outrage Palestinians

///Yeah you can tell how much god favors the Jews because he picked out their homeland as the one spot in the Middle East with no oil!

Kragar Mon, Jul 30, 2012 10:22:58am

re: #14 Obdicut

Mitt isn't wrong that culture has a lot to do with prosperity, but the two things are not one the product of the other; they're innately intertwined. This is why the Roma are fucked, for example, but blaming them for it is both missing the point and victim-bashing.

Victim bashing is a long standing conservative value.

Romantic Heretic Mon, Jul 30, 2012 10:23:09am

re: #10 freetoken

And of course, we all know which^* culture is tops.

_{*_Anglo-Saxon}

I thought culture is something you do with bacteria. /

jaunte Mon, Jul 30, 2012 10:23:23am

"Smithers, release the gaffes"

wrenchwench Mon, Jul 30, 2012 10:26:20am

re: #17 Kragar

Victim bashing is a long standing conservative value.

It helps validate being a winner. Mitt's a winner. It's not his fault. It's culture that made him better than the rest of us.

wrenchwench Mon, Jul 30, 2012 10:27:07am

re: #15 ggt

I'm really tired of The Mitster. I'll be glad when this election is over.

Not if he wins you won't.

jaunte Mon, Jul 30, 2012 10:27:08am

re: #20 wrenchwench

It certainly kept him out of Vietnam.

Lidane Mon, Jul 30, 2012 10:27:43am

re: #17 Kragar

Victim bashing is a long standing conservative value.

So is denying reality, reason, and every shred of progress since the Enlightenment. And now we've got a GOP nominee saying he'd endorse starting World War 3 if Israel strikes against Iran.

What fun.

wrenchwench Mon, Jul 30, 2012 10:27:54am

re: #22 jaunte

It certainly kept him out of Vietnam.

The culture was so much better in France.

Shiplord Kirel Mon, Jul 30, 2012 10:27:54am

Look on the bright side: Once Mitt is in office for a few months, the Middle East will blow up like God's own volcano and we will be forced to reduce our dependence on foreign oil, mostly because there won't be any. It will be pretty rough on the millions killed and the billions reduced to poverty, but our superior culture will win through with the help of Mormon survival consciousness.

////

researchok Mon, Jul 30, 2012 10:27:55am

I would not say Palestinian culture is inferior.

It is however, broken in every sense of thew word.

This is not limited to the Palestinians- virtually the entire Arab world, under the leadership of dysfunctional and oppressive regimes suffer the same brokenness.

They, more than anyone else have been the greatest victims of Arab leadership dysfunction. It will take decades to repair.

b_sharp Mon, Jul 30, 2012 10:31:47am

re: #21 wrenchwench

Not if he wins you won't.

If he wins he'll rest on Obama's laurels for a few years.

Kragar Mon, Jul 30, 2012 10:31:53am

Presidential also-rans stiff small businesses

Michele Bachmann used a fleet of golf carts to transport supporters around the grounds of Iowa State University en route to winning the Ames straw poll last August, in what proved to be the high point of her campaign for the GOP presidential nomination.

The guy who owns those golf carts is still waiting for his check.

He’s not alone; Bachmann’s camp owes $935,000 to vendors across the country.

Other Republican contenders such as Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum owe even more; their campaigns are $4.85 million and $1.69 million in the hole, respectively, according to their most recent federal campaign reports.

nines09 Mon, Jul 30, 2012 10:31:57am

"Countries? Yeah I know a few owners."

wrenchwench Mon, Jul 30, 2012 10:32:04am

re: #26 researchok

I would not say Palestinian culture is inferior.

It is however, broken in every sense of thew word.

This is not limited to the Palestinians- virtually the entire Arab world, under the leadership of dysfunctional and oppressive regimes suffer the same brokenness.

They, more than anyone else have been the greatest victims of Arab leadership dysfunction. It will take decades to repair.

Those regimes always had help from places like the US, which benefit from cheap oil and other commodities. Unless it was a regime that took power by opposing an earlier one that had help from the US, like Iran.

simoom Mon, Jul 30, 2012 10:32:08am

[Link: www.thedailybeast.com...]

“I might have put it a bit differently,” Zalman Shoval, a former Israeli ambassador to the U.S., told the Daily Beast. “There’s no doubt about Israel’s economic achievement over the years, but I would not compare that to the Palestinian economy because obviously the Palestinian economy operates under different conditions.”

[Link: www.guardian.co.uk...]

The consensus of international economists, including the IMF and the World Bank, is that the Palestinian economy will fail to develop firm foundations and sustained growth until Israeli restrictions on imports, exports and the movement of goods are lifted.

alinuxguru Mon, Jul 30, 2012 10:32:21am

Wasn't Mitt supposed to have announced his VP choice by now? I contend that Mitt Romney does not need a VP at all. Clearly, based on these comments, he has his own inner Sarah Palin that is more than up to the task.

Shiplord Kirel Mon, Jul 30, 2012 10:33:36am

re: #32 alinuxguru

Wasn't Mitt supposed to have announced his VP choice by now? I contend that Mitt Romney does not need a VP at all. Clearly, based on these comments, he has his own inner Sarah Palin that is more than up to the task.

As Jay Leno said, it is taking longer because Mitt has little experience trying to hire an American.

freetoken Mon, Jul 30, 2012 10:34:43am

re: #5 jaunte

I noted last week that in the American Conservative magazine that Ron Unz delved in cultural superiority, using a resource normally exploited by "racial realists" to argue that culture is what determines which nations are rich.

What some may not know is that Unz takes credit for making Romney governor of MA:

How I Made Mitt

With Mitt Romney now the de facto Republican presidential nominee, I sometimes recall how I inadvertently launched his political career a decade ago, which is less implausible than it might sound.

[...]

This prestigious success led Romney to make another stab at winning political office, and he entered the 2002 Republican primary for Massachusetts governor. Since I was then running an “English for the Children of Massachusetts” ballot-initiative campaign to dismantle bilingual education, I closely followed the political developments of that year.

[...]

Only 15 percent of registered Massachusetts voters were Republican, so the party’s talent pool was minuscule, and [Romney] selected Kerry Healey—a somewhat obscure local GOP activist who had never held political office—persuading her to enter the primary for the second [lieutenant] slot.

She was quickly challenged by Jim Rappaport, a wealthy Republican leader who hoped to win the primary by running sharply to her right. Thus, although Romney was unopposed for the Republican nomination, there ensued a bitter battle for the second slot between the Rappaport forces and the Romney forces, backing Healey.

At this point, my own campaign entered the equation. I had successfully qualified our measure as Question Two [English Only] for the November ballot, and its requirement that all immigrant children be taught English as soon as they started school had begun attracting heavy coverage in the local media, proving to be wildly popular among more conservative voters. Nonetheless, the vast majority of the state’s Democratic political establishment declared their opposition to the measure. Since Romney was positioning himself for the general election, he soon did the same.

Romney’s opposition concerned me, since unified Democratic and Republican attacks on our initiative might endanger its passage in November. Therefore, I quickly reached out to Rappaport, and with “English” having perhaps 90 percent support among Republicans, he immediately endorsed our Question Two, hoping to use the issue as a weapon against Healey in the primary.

Just as I had hoped, Romney soon decided that Healey needed to protect herself by also endorsing the [English Only] measure, which forced him to avoid an embarrassing split in the ranks by reversing his previous position and doing the same. Partly as a result, Healey soon won an overwhelming victory in her primary race, and the political lines were set for November.

[...]

As the election grew near, however, the hot-button question of whether or not all public schools should teach their students English exploded into public awareness, becoming far and away the biggest issue of the election, without a single dollar of advertising having been spent on its behalf. When reporters from the Globe and other newspapers went out and interviewed ordinary voters, many of them didn’t much know or care about the candidates running for any office, including governor, but almost everyone was talking about “English” and most were overwhelmingly enthusiastic. Finally, Romney’s people noticed this and decided to hitch a ride on the issue, so for the last few weeks of the campaign his advertising focused on the fact that he supported “English” while his Democratic rival opposed it.

IOW, Unz takes credit for making Romney move far right.

Destro Mon, Jul 30, 2012 10:36:51am

re: #26 researchok

I would not say Palestinian culture is inferior.

It is however, broken in every sense of thew word.

This is not limited to the Palestinians- virtually the entire Arab world, under the leadership of dysfunctional and oppressive regimes suffer the same brokenness.

They, more than anyone else have been the greatest victims of Arab leadership dysfunction. It will take decades to repair.

I read a book which I can not recall where the dysfunction of the region is blamed on how bad the Ottoman empire was managed. The Ottoman's rule impovrished what had been the wealthiest and most advanced regions on earth be they populated by Arabs, Slavs, Greeks, Muslims, Christians, Turks.

Kragar Mon, Jul 30, 2012 10:38:18am

Netanyahu Identified Palestinian Economic Growth As Key To Peace

In a speech to the United States Congress in May 2011, Netanyahu devoted a significant passage towards what he called the “booming” Palestinian economy, a development he attributed specifically to an easing of Israeli restrictions on movement and business. He suggested that peace would bring even stronger growth.

Here’s a portion of Netanyahu’s speech, via the Council on Foreign Relations:

We seek a peace in which they’ll be neither Israel’s subjects nor its citizens. They should enjoy a national life of dignity as a free, viable and independent people living in their own state. They should enjoy a prosperous economy, where their creativity and initiative can flourish.

Now, we’ve already seen the beginnings of what is possible. In the last two years, the Palestinians have begun to build a better life for themselves. By the way, Prime Minister Fayyad has led this effort on their part, and I — I wish him a speedy recovery from his recent operation.

We’ve helped — on our side, we’ve helped the Palestinian economic growth by removing hundreds of barriers and roadblocks to the free flow of goods and people, and the results have been nothing short of remarkable. The Palestinian economy is booming; it’s growing by more than 10 percent a year. And Palestinian cities — they look very different today than what they looked just a few years — a few years ago. They have shopping malls, movie theaters, restaurants, banks. They even have e-businesses, but you can’t see that when you visit them.

That’s what they have. It’s a great change. And all of this is happening without peace. So imagine what could happen with peace.

While Romney’s speech boasted of Israel’s economic strength, it made no mention to the Palestinians’ lack of a sovereign state or, as Netanyahu acknowledged, the economic impact of having to navigate a maze of checkpoints and other barriers in addition to the basic disruption of longstanding internal and external conflicts.

Far from a cause for celebration of Israel’s cultural superiority, Netanyahu has repeatedly identified a weak Palestinian economy as a critical barrier to peace in the past. He has said that negotiations should be preceded by an “economic peace,” which he believes is central to an eventual creation of a Palestinian state.

Darth Vader Gargoyle Mon, Jul 30, 2012 10:39:05am

re: #26 researchok

I would not say Palestinian culture is inferior.

It is however, broken in every sense of thew word.

This is not limited to the Palestinians- virtually the entire Arab world, under the leadership of dysfunctional and oppressive regimes suffer the same brokenness.

They, more than anyone else have been the greatest victims of Arab leadership dysfunction. It will take decades to repair.

A large part of the blinders put in place by Arab dictators is the unreasoning blind hatred of all things Israel.

researchok Mon, Jul 30, 2012 10:39:21am

re: #30 wrenchwench

That may or may not be the case but even if it is, these regimes have exploited- and deliberately broken their own people.

The US or others do not force Hamas to teach the kindergarten ditty, 'HAMAS! HAMAS! JEWS TO THE GAS! The US is no supporter of Syria where 'Allah in Heaven, Hitler on earth! was a common refrain in middle schools.

Racism, hate and bigotry (found in every society, of course) have been state sponsored and institutionalized in the Arab world.

I could go on ad infinitum, but in the end, whatever sins outside influences were guilty of, these were deliberate and ugly choices made by these dysfunctional regimes that have hobbled the Arab world.

As I noted, the Arabs have been the greatest victims of Arab leadership dysfunction.

The biggest crime the west is guilty of is turning a blind eye to the dysfunction- and even tolerating it.

Romantic Heretic Mon, Jul 30, 2012 10:40:28am

re: #15 ggt

I'm really tired of The Mitster. I'll be glad when this election is over.

re: #21 wrenchwench

Not if he wins you won't.

Excuse me while I go change my underwear.

Obdicut Mon, Jul 30, 2012 10:41:23am

re: #35 Destro

I read a book which I can not recall where the dysfunction of the region is blamed on how bad the Ottoman empire was managed. The Ottoman's rule impovrished what had been the wealthiest and most advanced regions on earth be they populated by Arabs, Slavs, Greeks, Muslims, Christians, Turks.

And impoverished them right at the wrong time, during the Enlightenment. With generally moribund economies, the intellectual and scientific life of the Islamic world stultified. The infrastructure was breaking down, so communications between scientists and thinkers was made more difficult. The lack of entrepreneurship also meant there was no one to capitalize on the inventions that were being made.

Really bad timing.

b_sharp Mon, Jul 30, 2012 10:41:49am

re: #34 freetoken

I noted last week that in the American Conservative magazine that Ron Unz delved in cultural superiority, using a resource normally exploited by "racial realists" to argue that culture is what determines which nations are rich.

What some may not know is that Unz takes credit for making Romney governor of MA:

How I Made Mitt

IOW, Unz takes credit for making Romney move far right.

Straight out of "The Bell Curve".

What makes nations rich is the existence of high demand, high cost commodities and a fair political system.

researchok Mon, Jul 30, 2012 10:43:08am

re: #35 Destro

A serious response. Finally.

The Ottomans were indeed guilty of the charges you make. They were the regional super power of the times and like aqll super powers,exploited where they could for their own benefit Real politik.

That said, the regimes have long since shed the yoke of Ottoman rule.

The dysfunction you see today is more the result of Pan Arabism and Baathism gone bad.

AK-47% Mon, Jul 30, 2012 10:43:51am

re: #26 researchok

I would not say ~~Palestinian~~ The GOP culture is inferior.

It is however, broken in every sense of thew word.

This is not limited to the ~~Palestinians~~ wingnuts - virtually the entire Arab world, under the leadership of dysfunctional and oppressive ~~regimes~~ politicians suffer the same brokenness.

They, more than anyone else have been the greatest victims of ~~Arab~~ Tea Party leadership dysfunction. It will take decades to repair.

wrenchwench Mon, Jul 30, 2012 10:44:22am

re: #38 researchok

As I noted, the Arabs have been the greatest victims of Arab leadership dysfunction.

This I agree with.

The biggest crime the west is guilty of is turning a blind eye to the dysfunction- and even tolerating it.

This might not go far enough. What are we doing about the repression in Saudi Arabia? I think it goes beyond tolerance. I think we enable it.

researchok Mon, Jul 30, 2012 10:45:51am

re: #44 wrenchwench

We're on the same page there, for sure.

When then Saudi regime is gone there will be hell to pay for the west.

No excuses, no justifications.

wrenchwench Mon, Jul 30, 2012 10:45:56am

re: #34 freetoken

I noted last week that in the American Conservative magazine that Ron Unz delved in cultural superiority, using a resource normally exploited by "racial realists" to argue that culture is what determines which nations are rich.

What some may not know is that Unz takes credit for making Romney governor of MA:

How I Made Mitt

IOW, Unz takes credit for making Romney move far right.

White supremacists are having a huge impact on the culture and politics of the US. It's disgusting. And creepy and scary.

freetoken Mon, Jul 30, 2012 10:46:44am

Hmm... the Poles may not be so Mitt-happy after all:

Polish Solidarity distances self from Romney visit

Solidarity, the trade union movement which led the Polish struggle against Communist rule, distanced itself on Monday from a visit to Poland by U.S. presidential candidate Mitt Romney, saying he supported attacks on unions in his own country.

[...]

"The relationship that our countries have is very important and it would be a high priority in a Romney administration," said a senior Romney campaign adviser.

However, it may prove difficult in Poland for Romney to draw a sharp contrast with his Democratic rival in the presidential election because Polish leaders enjoy fairly strong ties with the Obama White House.

[...]

AK-47% Mon, Jul 30, 2012 10:47:24am

re: #44 wrenchwench

This I agree with.

This might not go far enough. What are we doing about the repression in Saudi Arabia? I think it goes beyond tolerance. I think we enable it.

We should be in a position to put political and mostly economic pressure on these regimes to reform and modernize. But our dependency on their energy rewources makes it impossible for us to do anything but smile, nod and put up with it...

freetoken Mon, Jul 30, 2012 10:47:55am

re: #46 wrenchwench

White supremacists are having a huge impact on the culture and politics of the US. It's disgusting. And creepy and scary.

I think it is important to note how easily Romney will be affected by the will of atavists.

Kragar Mon, Jul 30, 2012 10:48:26am

re: #47 freetoken

Hmm... the Poles may not be so Mitt-happy after all:

Polish Solidarity distances self from Romney visit

Who would have thought a worker's group might have issues with a guy who destroys companies?
///

erik_t Mon, Jul 30, 2012 10:48:40am

re: #49 freetoken

I think it is important to note how easily Romney will be affected by the will of atavists.

I'm not sure your tense is correct.

Shiplord Kirel Mon, Jul 30, 2012 10:50:07am

The Mormon church has some really good advice on long term preparedness ("survival" having been abolished because of tainted associations).

Long-term food storage including a list of foods that will last 30 years

I may check into this in case Mitt accidentally wins and his Middle East policies have the expected result. I have a farm but I can't eat cotton and $20 a gallon diesel might make it hard to get the grub in.

freetoken Mon, Jul 30, 2012 10:53:41am

Conservatives work to cull moderate Republicans

Frustrated by their inability to achieve some policy goals, conservatives in Republican states are turning against moderate members of their own party, trying to drive them out of state legislatures to clear the way for reshaping government across a wide swath of mid-America controlled by the GOP.

Political groups are helping finance the efforts by supporting primary election challenges targeting several dozen moderate Republicans in the Midwest and South, especially prominent lawmakers who run key state committees.

[...]

The push is most intense in Kansas, where conservatives are attempting to replace a dozen moderate Republican senators who bucked new Gov. Sam Brownback's move to slash state income taxes.

The Club for Growth, a major conservative interest group, is spending about $500,000 in Missouri this year. That's double the amount it invested two years ago. The anti-tax group Americans for Prosperity opened new chapters in Iowa, Minnesota and New Mexico. The conservative business group Texans for Lawsuit Reform spent $3.5 million on legislative candidates in the first half of 2012, more than double its total during the same period two years ago.

[...]

Kragar Mon, Jul 30, 2012 10:54:27am

re: #52 Shiplord Kirel

The Mormon church has some really good advice on long term preparedness ("survival" having been abolished because of tainted associations).

Long-term food storage including a list of foods that will last 30 years

I may check into this in case Mitt accidentally wins and his Middle East policies have the expected result. I have a farm but I can't eat cotton and $20 a gallon diesel might make it hard to get the grub in.

I plan to join a horde.

garhighway Mon, Jul 30, 2012 10:54:59am

re: #53 freetoken

Hard to see how that could go wrong.

Kragar Mon, Jul 30, 2012 10:55:49am

Democratic Party to add gay marriage to platform

The Democratic Party has added new language endorsing gay marriage in its platform draft, the Washington Blade reports. Sen. Harry Reid said in May that he believed the party would alter its platform in favor of gay marriage, after President Obama spoke out that month in favor of same-sex couples' right to marry. The Republican Party's platform calls for a constitutional amendment that would ban all same-sex marriages, even in states that allow them.

STATES RIGHTS!

freetoken Mon, Jul 30, 2012 10:57:11am

Continuing on with that AP piece:

The Kansas Chamber of Commerce raised $163,000 for the effort last year - a significant sum in a less populous state like Kansas - with more than $36,000 coming from Koch Industries Inc., the company led by Charles Koch.

[...]

So far this year, conservative challengers in Texas have unseated three state House committee chairmen who were accused by tea party adherents of cooperating with Democrats on legislation. A conservative opponent knocked off a moderate state senator in the Colorado primary.

[...]

Oh, the horror... cooperating!

Kragar Mon, Jul 30, 2012 10:59:39am

re: #57 freetoken

Continuing on with that AP piece:

Oh, the horror... cooperating!

The GOP is sick and tired of that "civil discourse" bullshit.

freetoken Mon, Jul 30, 2012 10:59:57am

Republicans killing Chick-fil-A with kindness?

Lately, Chick-fil-A has some high-profile fans. But an analysis from YouGov suggests that becoming a conservative cause is not good for the company’s brand.

The YouGov BrandIndex subtracts negative feedback from positive among its 1.7 million American fast-food eaters. Since July 19, when Chick-fil-A founder Dan Cathy suggested that changing the traditional definition of what constitutes a family is “inviting God’s judgment on our nation,” perception of the brand has dropped to 4 points below the national average from its spot at 19 points above the average before he made the comment.

[...]

oops....

erik_t Mon, Jul 30, 2012 11:00:39am

re: #59 freetoken

Republicans killing Chick-fil-A with kindness?

oops...

Well, lots of wallets are no longer cooperating with Chick-Fil-A.

That's good for Chick-Fil-A, right?

b_sharp Mon, Jul 30, 2012 11:01:06am

re: #52 Shiplord Kirel

The Mormon church has some really good advice on long term preparedness ("survival" having been abolished because of tainted associations).

Long-term food storage including a list of foods that will last 30 years

I may check into this in case Mitt accidentally wins and his Middle East policies have the expected result. I have a farm but I can't eat cotton and $20 a gallon diesel might make it hard to get the grub in.

Twinkies and Ding Dongs.

b_sharp Mon, Jul 30, 2012 11:01:36am

re: #54 Kragar

I plan to join a horde.

I plan to start a horde.

Sheila Broflovski Mon, Jul 30, 2012 11:02:11am

Israel is a multicultural society, so which of Israel's many cultures was Mitt praising?

Kragar Mon, Jul 30, 2012 11:03:58am

re: #59 freetoken

Anti-Gay Chick-fil-A Attracts Losers, Repels Prominent Leaders, Universities, And The Public

It seems telling that the political conservatives attracting media attention for coming to the defense of Chick-fil-A and its anti-gay crusades — Mike Huckabee, Rick Santorum, Sarah Palin, Tim Pawlenty — are all most recently known for having lost elections. Indeed, the anti-gay vitriol that Chick-fil-A’s president Dan Cathy has repeatedly dispensed has been a loser with the public: YouGov BrandIndex polling shows that the public’s approval of Chick-fil-A has taken a nosedive since Cathy’s interview from 65 to 39:

Gus Mon, Jul 30, 2012 11:04:34am

Romney is like the return of the "ugly American." It's no wonder he has John Bolton as his foreign policy adviser.

freetoken Mon, Jul 30, 2012 11:04:35am

Not really off topic:

Yesterday I called attention to the latest WND full frontal race-baiting gun-fetish article, and now it's been almost a day and I check back and see that they are up to 570 comments. Funnily, someone is actually trying to call them on their racism:

Vernon Willis

Colin Flaherty is described here as an "award winning reporter." I was just wondering who gave the award. Was it the Aryan Brotherhood or WAR (White Aryan Resistance)?

However, most of them are of this vein:

zapangadan

I do wonder if we will ever USE the firearms to defend against tyranny, or if we will just sit on our behinds and play Call of Duty and play pretend war against tyranny.

Violent, racist ideation - yes, that is what it means to be WND.

Shiplord Kirel Mon, Jul 30, 2012 11:05:15am

re: #61 b_sharp

Twinkies and Ding Dongs.

I can't abide Twinkies, but Ding Dongs (the chocolate hockey puck things for non-connoisseurs) are a real survival food: Enough calories to jump-start a nuclear reactor and a predicted shelf life of, iirc, 2.4 million years.

Kragar Mon, Jul 30, 2012 11:06:18am

re: #63 Learned Mother of Zion

Israel is a multicultural society, so which of Israel's many cultures was Mitt praising?

The Anglo-Saxons.

Kragar Mon, Jul 30, 2012 11:06:35am

re: #67 Shiplord Kirel

I can't abide Twinkies, but Ding Dongs (the chocolate hockey puck things for non-connoisseurs) are a real survival food: Enough calories to jump-start a nuclear reactor and a predicted shelf life of, iirc, 2.4 million years.

What about Chocodiles?

b_sharp Mon, Jul 30, 2012 11:07:54am

re: #63 Learned Mother of Zion

Israel is a multicultural society, so which of Israel's many cultures was Mitt praising?

Haven't you heard? Multiculturalism is the root of all our problems.

lawhawk Mon, Jul 30, 2012 11:08:06am

re: #59 freetoken

Most companies realize the value of being seeing as apolitical (even if they aren't as a company may choose to give to one side of the aisle over the other). Choosing sides, let alone disparaging one side of a volatile issue such as abortion or gay marriage, tends to reduce the brand's value and customers will seek alternatives where possible.

Since fast food joints are a dime a dozen, by choosing a side as that one has, it is more than likely it will suffer losses and lost equity in its brand.

While it might gain value in places where supporters are likely to share similar values (very conservative regions - much of the south, midwest, etc.), it would lose brand value elsewhere (the coasts, urban areas, etc.) and it would lose out on franchising opportunities in places that are more open to gay marriage. Those losses are more than likely to outweigh any localized benefits.

Shiplord Kirel Mon, Jul 30, 2012 11:09:15am

re: #69 Kragar

What about Chocodiles?

Just a chocolate covered Twinkie, and suspect in survival circles for being marketed mostly on the West Coast.

freetoken Mon, Jul 30, 2012 11:09:48am

re: #71 lawhawk

While it might gain value in places where supporters are likely to share similar values (very conservative regions - much of the south, southwest, etc.), ...

According to the article, in the "midwest" Chik-Fil-A's perception as a brand hasn't gone down, but only there.

lawhawk Mon, Jul 30, 2012 11:09:52am

re: #67 Shiplord Kirel

I'm a Yodel's kind of guy (though Hostess is currently circling the drain and figuring on a Ch 11 reorganization just two years after emerging from another bankruptcy reorganization).

efuseakay Mon, Jul 30, 2012 11:10:28am

re: #26 researchok

I would not say Palestinian culture is inferior.

It is however, broken in every sense of thew word.

This is not limited to the Palestinians- virtually the entire Arab world, under the leadership of dysfunctional and oppressive regimes suffer the same brokenness.

They, more than anyone else have been the greatest victims of Arab leadership dysfunction. It will take decades to repair.

Decades? I doubt things will ever change, unfortunately. At least not in our lifetime. :-/

lawhawk Mon, Jul 30, 2012 11:10:32am

re: #73 freetoken

Fixed

Sheila Broflovski Mon, Jul 30, 2012 11:12:39am

re: #68 Kragar

The Anglo-Saxons.

You may think you're being snarky, but in Israel "Anglo-Saxon" is actually a term that refers to Jewish immigrants from English-speaking countries.

Gus Mon, Jul 30, 2012 11:14:08am

Romney praises Israel economy, which has a top income tax rate of 48% on income over $125,000. AND free health care. maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2012/07/...
— Chernynkaya (@Chernynkaya) July 30, 2012

researchok Mon, Jul 30, 2012 11:14:29am

re: #75 efuseakay

I'm an optimist.

With a real economy and the development of a middle class, change can come quickly

Gus Mon, Jul 30, 2012 11:14:48am

Not sure if it's free health care. But they also have an individual mandate in Israel.

Shiplord Kirel Mon, Jul 30, 2012 11:16:03am

Twinkies at Wikipedia, or more than you ever wanted to know

This includes a lengthy section on cultural references, including this anecdote:

In the 2012 Ghost Rider: Spirit of Vengeance, the character Blackout has the power to decay anything he touches. When going through a lunch he causes a sandwich and apple to decay in seconds, then is impressed when he is unable to cause a Twinkie inside the lunch to decay.

(As the article points out, the Twinkies' infinite shelf life is an urban legend. The actual shelf life is still an impressive 25-30 days.)

researchok Mon, Jul 30, 2012 11:16:18am

re: #80 Gus

When it isn't free, it is subsidized.

The real news is they also have a world class health care system. Of course, with a smaller population that is easier to achieve, but still... world class.

researchok Mon, Jul 30, 2012 11:17:14am

re: #82 researchok

And they don't have a shortage of doctors, a condition which plagues some western countries.

dragonath Mon, Jul 30, 2012 11:22:55am

re: #57 freetoken

Oh, the horror... cooperating!

They'll love Alaska then. The Democrats and Republicans have formed a (gasp) coalition!

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

b_sharp Mon, Jul 30, 2012 11:23:04am

re: #81 Shiplord Kirel

Twinkies at Wikipedia, or more than you ever wanted to know

This includes a lengthy section on cultural references, including this anecdote:

(As the article points out, the Twinkies' infinite shelf life is an urban legend. The actual shelf life is still an impressive 25-30 days.)

I'm sure you missed a couple of zeros. 2500 - 3000 days.

b_sharp Mon, Jul 30, 2012 11:24:42am

re: #84 Fred Galt

They'll love Alaska then. The Democrats and Republicans have formed a (gasp) coalition!

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

They actually coalesced?

CuriousLurker Mon, Jul 30, 2012 11:29:37am

Q: If Palestinian & Arab culture is inferior, then why do the vast majority of Arab immigrants do so well when they come to America?

A: Because given peace, liberty, and security—something pretty much every human being on the planet wants for themselves & their family—they have a chance to grow and prosper, just like everyone else who is lucky enough to have those benefits.

researchok Mon, Jul 30, 2012 11:41:08am

re: #87 CuriousLurker

Three point swish.

From the far end of the court.

sagehen Mon, Jul 30, 2012 11:46:28am

Newsweek has a delightful article about Romney,
[Link: www.thedailybeast.com...]
has me giggling at my desk.

The episode highlights what’s really wrong with Romney. He’s kind of lame, and he’s really ... annoying. He keeps saying these ... things, these incredibly off-key things. Then he apologizes immediately—with all the sincerity of a hostage. Or maybe he doesn’t: sometimes he whines about the subsequent attacks on him. But the one thing he never does? Man up, double down, take his lumps.

In 1987, this magazine created a famous hubbub by labeling George H.W. Bush a “wimp” on its cover. “The Wimp Factor.” Huge stir. And not entirely fair—the guy had been an aviator in the war, the big war, the good war, and he was even shot down out over the Pacific, cockpit drenched in smoke and fumes, at an age (20) when in most states he couldn’t even legally drink a beer. In hindsight, Poppy looks like Dirty Harry Callahan compared with Romney, who spent his war (Vietnam) in—ready?—Paris. Where he learned ... French. Up to his eyeballs in deferments. Where Reagan saddled up a horse with the masculine name of El Alamein, Mitt saddles up something called Rafalca—except that he doesn’t even really do that, his wife does (dressage). And speaking of Ann—did you notice that she was the one driving the Jet Ski on their recent vacation, while Mitt rode on the back, hanging on, as Paul Begala put it to me last week, “like a helpless papoose”?

labman57 Mon, Jul 30, 2012 11:47:06am

One of Romney's fundamental problems is that he continues to speak on matters about which he has only the most superficial understanding, the result of his team's refusal to do its homework prior to preparing remarks dealing with domestic public policy and foreign relations.

sagehen Mon, Jul 30, 2012 11:50:06am

re: #82 researchok

When it isn't free, it is subsidized.

The real news is they also have a world class health care system. Of course, with a smaller population that is easier to achieve, but still... world class.

To be fair... every Jewish mother wants their son to be a doctor. And since university is free over there, they end up with more than enough doctors to treat every cold or hangnail.

researchok Mon, Jul 30, 2012 11:51:21am

re: #91 sagehen

They also had an influx of Russian MD's and scientists.

sagehen Mon, Jul 30, 2012 11:51:42am

re: #77 Learned Mother of Zion

You may think you're being snarky, but in Israel "Anglo-Saxon" is actually a term that refers to Jewish immigrants from English-speaking countries.

I was told the Israeli version of WASP is "white ashkenazi sabra with proteksia." Was I misinformed?

garhighway Mon, Jul 30, 2012 11:58:49am

re: #63 Learned Mother of Zion

Their Anglo-Saxon one.

Added: I see that I was late with this. Sorry.

SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Jul 30, 2012 12:00:15pm

re: #2 Destro

I recall Gingrich during the GOP debates called Palestinians an "artificial or invented people" which many analysts thought he said so he could secure money from sugar daddy Sheldon Adelson.

After meeting with Adelson in Jerusalem could he have been told to say that in exchange for Adelson's support?

Sheldon Adelson is not the Master Puppeteer, he's a rich donor.

You really think these people can't be lead-footed racists on their own?

Destro Mon, Jul 30, 2012 5:02:11pm

re: #95 SanFranciscoZionist

Sheldon Adelson is not the Master Puppeteer, he's a rich donor.

You really think these people can't be lead-footed racists on their own?

What do you think a rich donor is if not a puppet master? Especially to an empty suit like Romney.

Destro Mon, Jul 30, 2012 5:11:07pm

re: #40 Obdicut

And impoverished them right at the wrong time, during the Enlightenment. With generally moribund economies, the intellectual and scientific life of the Islamic world stultified. The infrastructure was breaking down, so communications between scientists and thinkers was made more difficult. The lack of entrepreneurship also meant there was no one to capitalize on the inventions that were being made.

Really bad timing.

Destro Mon, Jul 30, 2012 5:15:43pm

re: #42 researchok

A serious response. Finally.

The Ottomans were indeed guilty of the charges you make. They were the regional super power of the times and like aqll super powers,exploited where they could for their own benefit Real politik.

That said, the regimes have long since shed the yoke of Ottoman rule.

The dysfunction you see today is more the result of Pan Arabism and Baathism gone bad.

The printing press was used only by the non-Muslims in the Ottoman Empire until the 18th century since Islamic guilds of writers had denounced the printing press as "the Devil's Invention" to the Sultan. But with that said, the Pan-Arabism to Baathism to border disputes and inter-ethnic and religous conflicts are in part due to the legacy of the Ottoman empire and its break up. Just like World War One laid the ground work for WW2 and after the Cold War was still responsible for some European conflicts like the eventual break up of Yugoslavia (also linked to Ottoman misrule and decline), etc.

Eclectic Infidel Tue, Jul 31, 2012 1:25:24pm

Ah that's right, blame Israel and its "occupation." Honestly, this is one of the few things in which i agree with Mitt Romney.

I've said it before and i'm not afraid to say it again: if Palestinians want justice, all they need do is look in the mirror.

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