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Mitt Romney’s Energy Advisers Are Terrifying

What to expect if Romney’s elected
Environment • Views: 27,324

If Mitt Romney is elected, what’s going to happen on the increasingly alarming environmental front?

Think “George W. Bush,” but even more avaricious. DeSmogBlog’s Farron Cousins takes a close look at the backgrounds and connections of Mitt Romney’s Energy Advisors.

In the last few months, the press has been drawing a lot of parallels between presumptive Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney and former Republican President George W. Bush. And they have plenty of reasons for doing so. Romney has already tapped many of the same Bush economic and foreign policy advisers, and rumors were swirling earlier this year that Romney would tap Bush’s energy advisers as well.

As it turns out, those rumors are true.

Climate Progress has compiled a list of people who have been tapped, or will likely be tapped, by Romney for his energy team. The roster is a virtual “Dream Team” of dirty energy industry representatives from the coal industry, the shale gas industry, the oil industry, mountaintop removal mining companies, and lobbyists - all of whom were close advisers and friends of George W. Bush.

The most terrifying name on the list is American Petroleum Institute president Jack Gerard. Climate Progress points out that Gerard has been a longtime supporter of Romney, and that Romney considers Gerard a close, personal friend. Gerard’s stated goals, goals that we have to assume he’ll pressure Romney to fulfill, include placing an oil lobbyist in every district in America, opening up all federal lands for oil drilling, and removing many existing safety regulations.

The pick for Romney’s chief energy adviser is Harold Hamm, the head of oil-shale company Continental Resources. As the 78th richest man in the world, Hamm already has a significant amount of power, but being a chief adviser to the President of the United States would give him all the power he needs. His top priority, and the priority he says a Romney administration would approve immediately, is the Keystone XL pipeline, which would provide a gigantic financial benefit for Hamm.

Then we have Tom Farrell from the coal industry, a Romney campaign adviser, who wants to roll back the Clean Air Act and restrict the EPA from regulating harmful mercury emissions.

David Wilkins, a tar sands lobbyist, handles Canadian oil issues for the Romney campaign. He is also a card-carrying member of ALEC, who has worked to create special legal loopholes for lobbyists to push anti-environmental bills.

Rounding out the team are lobbyists Linda Stuntz, Jeffrey Holmstead, Greg Mankiw, and Jim Talent, all working on behalf of sectors within the dirty energy industry. Collectively, they have pushed for approval of the Keystone XL pipeline, opening federal lands to drilling (including offshore drilling in protected areas), and reducing pollution controls and taking away what little power the EPA has left to wield.

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433 comments

1 freetoken  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 6:08:52pm

But Mitt will end the tax breaks for that nasty wind power.

2 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 6:12:30pm

If Romney is elected, that four degree world of catastrophic warming is almost assured.

Perhaps someone should tell him that will kill his dancing horse too.

3 [deleted]  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 6:13:13pm
4 Interesting Times  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 6:16:59pm

re: #3 TedStriker

More than understand the anger, but in light of this site's policies, you should delete your last sentence.

5 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 6:18:38pm

re: #1 freetoken

But Mitt will end the tax breaks for that nasty wind power.

And he will save sick but poor babies from getting nasty free health care.

6 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 6:18:38pm

re: #4 Interesting Times

More than understand the anger, but in light of this site's policies, you should delete your last sentence.

He's speaking metaphuckically.

7 Charles Johnson  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 6:22:25pm

Violent rhetoric not cool.

8 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 6:22:29pm

The most tragic thing about this is that when he wanted to be governor of Massachusetts, he was all about carbon reduction. Of course, that is an educated state where he could not get elected if he said this present crap.

All Mitt has ever stood for is Mitt.

He will say or do anything he thinks will help him get elected because you know the whole world was made just for him, and little things like truth or principles don't matter. He is a perfectly shameless political prostitute. And like a prostitute, he hates his johns (the American people).

Neither do your lives or the lives of your children matter. Anything for that man's vanity.

If he gets elected, and decides it is in his interest to push the GOP science denial line, then nothing will get done. The data is clear. That is the end of America and civilization as we know it.

9 Interesting Times  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 6:23:15pm

re: #6 Decatur Deb

He's speaking metaphuckically.

I know, but other comments have been deleted for less and I'd like to see the rest of it stay (speaking for myself, if I had my way, I'd simply dump Romney's odious energy advisers in a top-floor room with no A/C and extremely poor air circulation, in Oklahoma City on a 110-degree-plus day, along with several obese individuals who just consumed chick-fil-A and are accordingly flatulent)

10 Iwouldprefernotto  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 6:23:48pm

Mitt's energy advisers sound like Dick Cheney's dream team.

11 researchok  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 6:24:18pm

I'd agree his energy advisers are lacking,to say the least.

As for Iraq, we're a lot smarter with hindsight- and certainly The Nation has their own spin an agenda, also honed with hindsight and time.

John Bolton and some of the others are no prize to be sure but we are looking through a lens of time.

Lastly, the neocons can't be painted with a single brush stroke.

The Arab Spring is proof of that and certainly in Iraq, Obama has not radically changed the agenda. He has moved things along- that was inevitable- but like Guantanamo, the Patriot Act and other national security matters Obama has continued to do what he deems necessary- and that is to his credit (and a very credible argument can be made that the President and the Justice Department have outdone Bush in prosecuting terror).

There is always the temptation to oversimplify things but in the end, we don't have all the information and are not privy to the national security decision making process.

When all is said and done, Obama is very credible when it comes to foreign policy. Is he flawless? No? Would Romney be flawless? Also, no. I suspect notwithstanding campaign rhetoric (always entertaining) our foreign policy will remain consistent.

That has been the one constant.

12 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 6:24:20pm

re: #9 Interesting Times

I know, but other comments have been deleted for less and I'd like to see the rest of it stay (speaking for myself, if I had my way, I'd simply dump Romney's odious energy advisers in a top-floor room with no A/C and extremely poor air circulation, in Oklahoma City on a 110-degree-plus day, along with several obese individuals who just consumed chick-fil-A and are accordingly flatulent)

"Internal injuries only!! Internal injuries only!"

13 jhrhv  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 6:24:31pm

I was watching I believe this the other night on PBS Journey to Planet Earth.

One of the things they touched on was the huge effort that went into winning WWII and the role the U.S.A played in that regard. How they retooled every car manufacturer to in years build the machinery to win the war. That an equal effort could be done to save the environment and power the US and the rest of the world.

It really seems to make a lot of sense and the right thing to do if not the only thing to do. The benefit to America and the planet could be immeasurable. A very not short sighted plan. I would personally love to be part of something like that.

14 engineer cat  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 6:26:17pm

re: #6 Decatur Deb

He's speaking metaphuckically.

heh

i thought it was 'metaforeheadly'

15 Interesting Times  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 6:32:53pm

re: #11 researchok

Sorry, I don't understand your point or how it relates to this post. Romney's energy advisers are more than just "lacking", they're planet-killers. Or, to put it in micro-level personal terms, having them in power is like not only being forced to eat shit, but forced to eat shit filled with parasitic flesh-eating bacteria that will kill you.

16 researchok  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 6:39:16pm

re: #15 Interesting Times

I was addressing the remarks about Romney's foreign policy advisers.

My initial remark was in agreement re his energy advisers.

17 Varek Raith  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 6:43:01pm

The Wall Street Journal: Dismissing Environmental Threats Since 1976

To forestall policy on climate change, the Wall Street Journal editorial board routinely downplays scientific consensus, overstates the cost of taking action, and claims that politics, not science, motivate those concerned about the climate. But an analysis of more than 100 editorials from 1976 to present shows that the Wall Street Journal used these same rhetorical tactics in previous decades on acid rain and ozone depletion and they did not stand the test of time.

18 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 6:44:28pm

re: #17 Varek Raith

The Wall Street Journal: Dismissing Environmental Threats Since 1976

Looks like the WSJ has FAIL nailed.

19 MittDoesNotCompute  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 6:45:07pm

re: #7 Charles Johnson

My apologies...point taken. Let's try this again, shall we?

If, were we in an alternate universe, there were no other issues to oppose Romney's quest for the White House, this is a huge, huge reason to do so.

These wannabe Gollums of the fossil fuel industry that Romney's tied himself up with would apparently take us back to the Bad Old Days of major air pollution and flammable bodies of water, all for the almighty dollar. After all, why should they care...when the shit really hits the fan years down the road, they'll likely be worm food and it'll be their grand-childrens' problem.

They, along with Romney, can just get fucked, because I'll never vote for such atavistic shitheads.

20 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 6:45:20pm

re: #17 Varek Raith

The flip side of that is:

Scientists have been warning about this loudly enough for the past 50 years that the Wall Street Journal has felt compelled to protect it's business reader's feelings and financial interests over the realities of the science.

Remember the first paper on AGW came in 1896, and the first this is a serious problem report to the president from the NAS came in 1964.

21 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 6:45:46pm

Sorry to go kinda OT but

22 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 6:46:09pm

re: #15 Interesting Times

Sorry, I don't understand your point or how it relates to this post. Romney's energy advisers are more than just "lacking", they're planet-killers. Or, to put it in micro-level personal terms, having them in power is like not only being forced to eat shit, but forced to eat shit filled with parasitic flesh-eating bacteria that will kill you.

That analogy stinks.

23 Interesting Times  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 6:46:25pm

re: #16 researchok

I was addressing the remarks about Romney's foreign policy advisers.

Remarks? The article makes barely a glancing mention of them, which I didn't even see at first. Besides, it's ultimately irrelevant to the larger issue - the laws of physics don't give a crap about international borders, and if Mitt's atrocious oil-tic tools succeed, they'll create conditions for international warfare and humanitarian crises that defy description. No "foreign-policying" your way out of that! (Hell, Mitt the Twit can't even do diplomacy under the best of conditions)

24 Varek Raith  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 6:47:31pm

re: #20 LudwigVanQuixote

The flip side of that is:

Scientists have been warning about this loudly enough for the past 50 years that the Wall Street Journal has felt compelled to protect it's business reader's feelings and financial interests over the realities of the science.

Remember the first paper on AGW came in 1896, and the first this is a serious problem report to the president from the NAS came in 1964.

1896?
What paper?

25 Only The Lurker Knows  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 6:48:38pm

I feel a disturbance in the Force.

Knight Capital fighting for its life

Knight Capital Group Inc. fought for survival on Thursday after a $440 million trading loss caused by a software glitch wiped out much of its capital, forcing Knight to seek new funding as its shares plunged almost 80 percent in two days.

Ouch!

26 researchok  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 6:48:49pm

re: #23 Interesting Times

CJ made the remarks.

I was addressing them.

As I said, I don't disagree with the assessment of Romney's energy advisers.

27 Varek Raith  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 6:49:07pm

re: #22 b_sharp

That analogy stinks.

My actual planet killer agrees.
Image: Vorlon.jpg
/

28 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 6:49:27pm

re: #20 LudwigVanQuixote

The flip side of that is:

Scientists have been warning about this loudly enough for the past 50 years that the Wall Street Journal has felt compelled to protect it's business reader's feelings and financial interests over the realities of the science.

Remember the first paper on AGW came in 1896, and the first this is a serious problem report to the president from the NAS came in 1964.

Yah, but Arrhenius was Swedish and the right discounts foreign scientists out of hand.

29 Girth  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 6:49:29pm

re: #20 LudwigVanQuixote

The flip side of that is:

Scientists have been warning about this loudly enough for the past 50 years that the Wall Street Journal has felt compelled to protect it's business reader's feelings and financial interests over the realities of the science.

Remember the first paper on AGW came in 1896, and the first this is a serious problem report to the president from the NAS came in 1964.

Funny how that's exactly the time that all the wingnuts and Job Creators would have us go back to.

30 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 6:50:09pm

re: #24 Varek Raith

1896?
What paper?

Arrhenius

31 Bipartite Gnomenclature  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 6:50:59pm

re: #27 Varek Raith

My actual planet killer agrees.
Image: Vorlon.jpg
/

I loved B5.

32 Varek Raith  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 6:51:03pm

re: #30 b_sharp

Arrhenius

Thank you for filling that gap of knowledge.
Time for reading!

33 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 6:53:31pm

re: #24 Varek Raith

1896?
What paper?

Svante August Arrhenius first described and discussed the Greenhouse effect in 1896.

In that paper, he used an number of astronomical observations and the Setphan Bolzman law to calculate the rise in temperature due to the trapping of black body radiation by atmospheric CO2

I can't find a link to the original paper.

34 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 6:54:24pm

re: #29 Girth

Funny how that's exactly the time that all the wingnuts and Job Creators would have us go back to.

Nah.. they are much more into 1796. A lot of them like the idea of a slave economy.

35 researchok  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 6:54:59pm

re: #33 LudwigVanQuixote

I can't find a link to the original paper.

It's under that pile of papers and books on your desk.

//

36 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 6:56:39pm

re: #35 researchok

It's under that pile of papers and books on your desk.

//

If you only knew.

BTW I would love to chat some psychology with you. I heard a fantastic talk from the AAAS meeting on climate about how right wing brains are simply different. Will you be around long enough for me to type up something about it?

37 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 6:57:52pm

re: #36 LudwigVanQuixote

If you only knew.

BTW I would love to chat some psychology with you. I heard a fantastic talk from the AAAS meeting on climate about how right wing brains are simply different. Will you be around long enough for me to type up something about it?

Can I read too?

38 researchok  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 6:58:50pm

re: #36 LudwigVanQuixote

Not tonight- I have an early AM call/meeting.

So I can tell people what they already know.

I will read it and respond tomorrow, though.

As a caveat thought, what you might be referring to is usually (though not always) more a matter of nurture than nature.

39 researchok  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 6:59:18pm

re: #37 ggt

The more the merrier!

40 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 7:00:44pm

There are a lot of right-wingers in my life and I feel like it is Israel and Palestine when we try to discuss something. There seems to be no common ground (except what is under our feet) and I just don't get it.

41 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 7:02:11pm

re: #36 LudwigVanQuixote

If you only knew.

BTW I would love to chat some psychology with you. I heard a fantastic talk from the AAAS meeting on climate about how right wing brains are simply different. Will you be around long enough for me to type up something about it?

Hello, Ludwig. Glad to see you on the board tonight.

Sadly, I'm going to need to sit this thread out for work reasons. I'll keep an eye open and will be posting when we have a non-energy thread.

42 researchok  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 7:07:06pm

re: #40 ggt

That's because of the construct of the problem.

Each side needs to control the entire narrative- there cannot be any deviation.

Obviously, this is more true for the Palestinians for a myriad of reasons. There is plenty of debate in Israel.

Also, the Palestinians are more victims of their own dysfunctional leadership than they are of Israel and Israeli policies.

As a result, through no fault of their own the Palestinians have a broken culture (and yes this is an accurate description)

Just yesterday, Hamas leaders referred to the Holocaust as a 'Big Lie'

43 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 7:16:13pm

re: #36 LudwigVanQuixote

*waves*
Good to see you!

44 Kragar  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 7:16:42pm

Mitt's whole policy on advisers seems to be "Who are the most insane people I can get away with hiring?"

45 Girth  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 7:17:31pm

re: #34 LudwigVanQuixote

Nah.. they are much more into 1796. A lot of them like the idea of a slave economy.

I think they know they can't have slaves any more so Jim Crow and robber barons suits them just fine. But hey, that indentured servant thing was pretty sweet...

46 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 7:18:08pm

re: #42 researchok

That's because of the construct of the problem.

Each side needs to control the entire narrative- there cannot be any deviation.

Obviously, this is more true for the Palestinians for a myriad of reasons. There is plenty of debate in Israel.

Also, the Palestinians are more victims of their own dysfunctional leadership than they are of Israel and Israeli policies.

As a result, through no fault of their own the Palestinians have a broken culture (and yes this is an accurate description)

Just yesterday, Hamas leaders referred to the Holocaust as a 'Big Lie'

And the Far-Right, Far-Left vs. the Centrist in political dialog?

What is with that?

47 engineer cat  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 7:20:37pm

re: #45 Girth

I think they know they can't have slaves any more so Jim Crow and robber barons suits them just fine. But hey, that indentured servant thing was pretty sweet...

the h1 visa is not so different

48 SpaceJesus  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 7:21:47pm

Georgia passes some "personhood bill" to limit abortions. Freep celebrates

To: FreeAtlanta
Good.

If an unborn is a person, killing of the person is murder, and murdering a person has no statute of limitations, my question is: can murdering doctors and “mothers” be brought to justice? The justice won’t be done until every single abortionist and whores are brought to justice for their past and present murders.


8 posted on 08/01/2012 6:19:49 PM PDT by sagar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Blood of Tyrants
Would “ex post facto laws” restriction apply with mass murderers like abortionists? The Nazi war criminals would not be hanged, because what they did was not illegal at all. After all, those murdered were not legally humans under the laws that they were operating under.


16 posted on Wed Aug 01 2012 21:11:22 GMT-0500 (Central Daylight Time) by sagar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

[Link: www.freerepublic.com...]

49 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 7:22:48pm

So the premise of the talk was that right wing and left wing minds are fundamentally different before ideology even comes up - and the speaker waggled around a bunch of psych and sociological papers.

He started by arguing that the idea that right and left are the results of different people looking at the same information and just coming to different conclusions was fundamentally wrong. Rather, righties in particular have a certain mindset and views facts in a way that fit the mindset, then rationalization of the politics occurs after the forgone conclusion.

Because of this, scientists, who are almost all lefties, use the entirely wrong language and techniques to reach righties. In short, all the facts data and open-mindedness and emiprical rationalism and enlightenment we take for granted, simply does not come into play for the other side and we shoot ourselves in the foot by even trying.

He identified several axis.

One was hierarchy. Righties perceive the world as hierarchal and by extension fear anything that threatens their perceived place in it. Lefties (and most scientists) see most human hierarchies as fundamentally unjust. Another related facet was fear of the world reflected in simply being open to sharing and the idea that society has a right to demand something from the individual. The righty looks to himself and his own needs first and foremost because he sees the hierarchy as fundamental and some people must be on the bottom of it, and it won't be him. Thus he resents anything being taken from him that might in his view, decrease his status.

Another was openness to new ideas and comfort with not knowing. Righties actually fear the unknown and take great comfort in simple explinations and neat world views. It is a form of control. Lefties by nature are excited by the new and unknown and very happy with saying "I don't know" and incorporating new information as it comes along.

Another axis was frankly analytical ability - not defined as just reasoning, but rather defined as a need to see and evaluate for oneself with internal consistency.

The third axis was distinct from all extreme political axis but sine qua non for scientists.

What this view produced was a model that when you hit a right winger with new information the first question asked internally by him is "how does this affect me, my world view and my standing in the hierarchy." If the information challenges that, it will be rejected violently and unless the information can be framed in a way that does not challenge that world view, it will be dismissed.

An example was that a vast majority of Americans by a wide margin like the idea of no insurance company being able to refuse coverage for an existing condition. But, if phrased as part of Obamacare, the party lines split right out.

There was also a discussion about the base and the higher ups of the right. The base has a markedly lower set of linguistic skills and mathematical ability. The higher ups of the GOP have those skills , but, in general, not to the level of academics, nor expressed like academics because of the natural hatred of nuance and non simple structures to hang world views on.

So charitably, right wingers have a mindset that damns them to right wingness just as much as certain other mindsets make one liberal - long before politics even come to play.

Uncharitably, the studies show that yes, these are unthinking, greedy, self absorbed, frightened people who cling to the simple.


Thoughts?

50 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 7:23:01pm

re: #48 SpaceJesus

Georgia passes some "personhood bill" to limit abortions. Freep celebrates

[Link: www.freerepublic.com...]

i am so ready to let the South secede, if they take Texas with them.

51 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 7:23:43pm

re: #38 researchok

Not tonight- I have an early AM call/meeting.

So I can tell people what they already know.

I will read it and respond tomorrow, though.

As a caveat thought, what you might be referring to is usually (though not always) more a matter of nurture than nature.

Actually, I am not talking nature or nurture, I am talking that there was a mindset set up that generates the politics. How that mindset got there is another issue.

52 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 7:24:58pm

re: #41 Dark_Falcon

re: #43 Dancing along the light of day

Always great to see you!

53 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 7:25:43pm

re: #49 LudwigVanQuixote

There was an article on Alternet a while back that went thru some of this. It also included a sense of "justice" by right-wing thinking meaning --"earned". There had to be a moral sense of having earned what what has and suffering consequences if one did something wrong (perceived).

I'll see if I can find it, the explanation was so much better than mine.

54 researchok  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 7:28:31pm

re: #46 ggt

And the Far-Right, Far-Left vs. the Centrist in political dialog?

What is with that?

Everybody has an agenda and the Palestinians are pawns.

'Look at me, I support the poor oppressed Palestinians"

'Look at me, I support the poor victims of Palestinian terror'

No one wants to talk about the origins of the occupation because that only indicates the real level of dysfunction of the Arab world -and that dysfunction is ever escalating.

In 1967, Egypt kicked out UN peacekeepers from the Sinai Peninsula. They massed troops on Israel’s borders and threatened her destruction. Radio broadcasts at the time, monitored and recorded, exhorted Arab troops to an orgy of destruction, rivers of blood and rape- literally, saying these was Islamic destiny. Syria followed suit, massing borders on Israels northern flank. The Gulf of Aqaba was blockaded (an act of war in itself) and despite pleas from Israel to Jordan’s King Hussein, he too was to enter the fray.

In response, Israel called up it’s armed forces and reserves and on June 5, 1967, launched a preemptive strike against Egypt, Syria and Jordan. It was over in 6 days. By then, Israel has crossed the Suez Cana and had taken Gaza (Dayan said, “Give me 12 hours and I can be in Cairo.” Fortunately, cooler heads prevailed). Syria lost the Golan Heights (their soldiers were chained to their positions, literally) and Jordan lost the West Bank and Jerusalem. We’ll skip around a bit, time wise. Israel offered the land back, for peace, secure borders and mutual recognition. The Arab countries said no and ratified that ‘No’ in The Khartoum Declaration of 1968. There it was decided that violence would not cease until Israel and her inhabitants were destroyed. Their words, not ours. Back to the timeline. What Israel found in the West Bank and Jerusalem was appalling. Despite repeated promises and agreements, Jordan had never allowed Jews to their holy sites and Houses of Worship. There was a reason for that. Every single Jewish House of Worship was destroyed- all of them. The tombstones of the Mount Olives cemetery, millenia old, were desecrated. Many were used to line latrines and as sewage conduits by the residents and the Arab occupants of Jerusalem. The area in front of the Wailing Wall, the most sacred of Jewish holy sites was a garbage dump, some 60 feet deep, by some estimates. Yes, there are photos and other documented evidence of these realities.

When the Israelis entered Jerusalem, they found the few Christian schools forced to teach the Quran. The found unreliable electricity, schooling (girls were forbidden to go to school), virtually no health care and a non existant economy. While we do not wish to get into lists, the Israelis provided to the Palestinians- the very ones who tried to destroy their ancient and proud history with deliberate malice- schools and universities, health care, sanitation, electricty, an economy and an infrastructure they had never known.

As is often said in the region, 'Better the Hell of Israel than the Paradise of Arafat.

Again, the level of dysfunction of the Palestinians has been foisted upon them by dysfunctional and corrupt leadership- decades of it.

55 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 7:29:01pm

ah, here it is.

Haidt’s first five intuitions, or “moral foundations,” are 1) the sense of needing to provide care and protect from harm; 2) the sense of what is just and fair; 3) the sense of loyalty and willingness to sacrifice for a group; 4) the sense of obedience or respect for authority; and 5) the sense of needing to preserve purity or sanctity. And politically, Haidt finds that liberals tend to strongly emphasize the first two moral intuitions (harm and fairness) in their responses to situations and events, but are much weaker on emphasizing the other three (group loyalty, respect for authority, and purity or sanctity). By contrast, Haidt finds that conservatives more than liberals respond to all five moral intuitions.

56 Interesting Times  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 7:29:09pm

re: #49 LudwigVanQuixote

Sounds like Chris Mooney's "The Republican Brain". Was the speaker George Lakoff, or Jonathan Haidt?

57 SpaceJesus  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 7:29:11pm

re: #50 ggt

i will literally give a nice bottle of wine to whichever country wants the south as payment for them taking it.

58 SpaceJesus  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 7:29:37pm

the catch is that no country could possibly want the american south

59 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 7:29:59pm

re: #54 researchok

Very, very well said.

60 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 7:30:17pm

re: #56 Interesting Times

Sounds like Chris Mooney's "The Republican Brain". Was the speaker George Lakoff, or Johnathan Haidt?

GMTA!!! only my article was from Alternet.

61 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 7:30:30pm

re: #56 Interesting Times

The speaker was Chris Mooney :)

62 Kragar  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 7:37:52pm

re: #58 SpaceJesus

the catch is that no country could possibly want the american south

South Afrika from about 40 years ago would have snapped them right up.

63 Interesting Times  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 7:38:15pm

re: #61 LudwigVanQuixote

The speaker was Chris Mooney :)

Heh. His points are also indirectly touched upon by Skeptical Science's Debunking Handbook - they talk about how conservatives are horrified by facts that threaten their worldview and sense of self, but became less so after completing a self-affirmation exercise:

Self-affirmation can be achieved by asking people to
write a few sentences about a time when they felt good about themselves because they acted on a value that was important to them.
People then become more receptive to messages that otherwise might threaten their worldviews, compared to people who received no self-affirmation. Interestingly, the “self-affirmation effect” is strongest among those whose ideology was central to their sense of self-worth.

That last part provides a valuable clue on how to break the hold the cynical propagandists have on their dupes.

64 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 7:39:23pm

re: #63 Interesting Times

Heh. His points are also indirectly touched upon by Skeptical Science's Debunking Handbook - they talk about how conservatives are horrified by facts that threaten their worldview and sense of self, but became less so after completing a self-affirmation exercise:

That last part provides a valuable clue on how to break the hold the cynical propagandists have on their dupes.

He was one of the people involved in making that handbook if memory serves me well.

65 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 7:47:10pm

re: #63 Interesting Times

Heh. His points are also indirectly touched upon by Skeptical Science's Debunking Handbook - they talk about how conservatives are horrified by facts that threaten their worldview and sense of self, but became less so after completing a self-affirmation exercise:

That last part provides a valuable clue on how to break the hold the cynical propagandists have on their dupes.

You know, part of growing older (I've learned) is accepting change that one never thought possible. I've posted my list of things I never thought would happen and described how it affected me--usually with humor. Yet it is very hard, I can see how people get overloaded and say "enough!!!". They put their heads-in-the sand and wait for SSI to kick in.

What I don't get is the young people who believe in the anti-science shit etc.

66 researchok  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 7:49:33pm

re: #49 LudwigVanQuixote

Lots here, but in my opinion, his premise is wrong- and dangerously so.

In fact, he is (unwittingly) using a kind of scientific 'racialism', long abandoned (and understandably so!) Are we to assume some people are 'lesser' because of their beliefs or cultural group/tribe? That is exactly what the speaker was saying.

The theory goes on to say that no matter what, some people cannot change their minds or will revert to their tribal allegiances when presnted with 'proper' information.

Then there is the faith aspect. Some people will say that any believer is lesser (Dawkins) in that belief in and of itself is not progressive (this is no small matter. Some say that belief in God in and of itself trumps the behavior of believers.

There is more than a bit of irony here- Jews for example, were considered inferior and incapable of analytic behavior.

If you subscribe to this kind of thinking the Bell Curve is a perfectly plausible and acceptable way of looking at things.

Obviously, I'm giving this short treatment but all in all a more plausible explantion has to do with nurture as opposed to nature.

We are shaped by our family, group, etc. Now, they can have an effect on how we see the world but that is not written is stone.

People change their minds all the time.

Mostly, that change is incremental (because more information needs to be processed, etc. The miraculous conversions are rare and usually do not last, but that is another conversation) and that is a good thing. When rational arguments are made, change is inevitable. Recall how your explanation of AGW (better than any other I heard) put to rest my doubts.

Was I wrong in not accepting AGW as fact as long as I did not understand the process? No, I was not.

People of faith will have faith as long as they get something of value from that faith, Dawkins notwithstanding. There are those who will abandon faith because they perceive faith offers them nothing.

Are either of these groups 'lesser'?

Anyhow, this is the short version.

I believe nurture and not nature defines us. Change the nurture and we will change.

67 researchok  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 7:51:05pm

re: #65 ggt

A direct result of further nurture.

68 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 7:52:30pm

re: #49 LudwigVanQuixote

I'm pondering the implications for centrist/moderates. In my case I lean well right but enjoy new data, and the exercise of processing it. As painful as that can be sometimes.

69 Destro  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 7:54:24pm

re: #49 LudwigVanQuixote

So the premise of the talk was that right wing and left wing minds are fundamentally different before ideology even comes up - and the speaker waggled around a bunch of psych and sociological papers.

He started by arguing that the idea that right and left are the results of different people looking at the same information and just coming to different conclusions was fundamentally wrong. Rather, righties in particular have a certain mindset and views facts in a way that fit the mindset, then rationalization of the politics occurs after the forgone conclusion.

Because of this, scientists, who are almost all lefties, use the entirely wrong language and techniques to reach righties. In short, all the facts data and open-mindedness and emiprical rationalism and enlightenment we take for granted, simply does not come into play for the other side and we shoot ourselves in the foot by even trying.

He identified several axis.

One was hierarchy. Righties perceive the world as hierarchal and by extension fear anything that threatens their perceived place in it. Lefties (and most scientists) see most human hierarchies as fundamentally unjust. Another related facet was fear of the world reflected in simply being open to sharing and the idea that society has a right to demand something from the individual. The righty looks to himself and his own needs first and foremost because he sees the hierarchy as fundamental and some people must be on the bottom of it, and it won't be him. Thus he resents anything being taken from him that might in his view, decrease his status.

Another was openness to new ideas and comfort with not knowing. Righties actually fear the unknown and take great comfort in simple explinations and neat world views. It is a form of control. Lefties by nature are excited by the new and unknown and very happy with saying "I don't know" and incorporating new information as it comes along.

Another axis was frankly analytical ability - not defined as just reasoning, but rather defined as a need to see and evaluate for oneself with internal consistency.

The third axis was distinct from all extreme political axis but sine qua non for scientists.

What this view produced was a model that when you hit a right winger with new information the first question asked internally by him is "how does this affect me, my world view and my standing in the hierarchy." If the information challenges that, it will be rejected violently and unless the information can be framed in a way that does not challenge that world view, it will be dismissed.

An example was that a vast majority of Americans by a wide margin like the idea of no insurance company being able to refuse coverage for an existing condition. But, if phrased as part of Obamacare, the party lines split right out.

There was also a discussion about the base and the higher ups of the right. The base has a markedly lower set of linguistic skills and mathematical ability. The higher ups of the GOP have those skills , but, in general, not to the level of academics, nor expressed like academics because of the natural hatred of nuance and non simple structures to hang world views on.

So charitably, right wingers have a mindset that damns them to right wingness just as much as certain other mindsets make one liberal - long before politics even come to play.

Uncharitably, the studies show that yes, these are unthinking, greedy, self absorbed, frightened people who cling to the simple.

Thoughts?

You leave out the root of all this on the right wing. Dominionist Religion and its laws, including the death penalty for some acts, attributed to some invisible force who told people so in the bronze age.

70 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 7:54:51pm

re: #67 researchok

A direct result of further nurture.

Is that the same as what I term "intellectual inbreeding"?

71 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 7:55:51pm

re: #69 Destro

You leave out the root of all this. Religion and its laws, including the death penalty for some acts, attributed to some invisible force who told people so in the bronze age.

You mean Dante's vision hell isn't part of the Bible?

72 researchok  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 7:55:58pm

re: #68 Daniel Ballard

Political orthodoxy (any) is as much a religion as anything else.

Thinker are never rigid because thinker are constantly evaluating new- and old- information.

And for short trip down memory lane, thinkers do not need to wear jeans with someone else's' name on their ass.

73 researchok  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 7:56:33pm

re: #70 ggt

Define please

74 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 7:59:26pm

re: #73 researchok

Define pease

New thoughts/ideas not allowed in the household. Parent's uncomfortable with some subjects, so the kids never bring them up. hmmm, the emotionally interalize that questioning certain subjects is wrong, perhaps a sin. Parent's don't realize they are doing this because their parents did as well.

In my family it has to do with body parts and sex. This only served to reinforce the RC church's teachings and as a result, you get some people very ignorant about sex and biology.

I'm not doing a very good job of describing what I am thinking. It's not the same as brainwashing.

75 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 8:00:39pm

The discussion tonite is probably way above my current brain functioning level. I'm on about 3 cylinders tonite.

Thanks for your patience and understanding :)

76 compound_Idaho  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 8:01:07pm

re: #49 LudwigVanQuixote

So the premise of the talk was that right wing and left wing minds are fundamentally different before ideology even comes up - and the speaker waggled around a bunch of psych and sociological papers.

He started by arguing that the idea that right and left are the results of different people looking at the same information and just coming to different conclusions was fundamentally wrong. Rather, righties in particular have a certain mindset and views facts in a way that fit the mindset, then rationalization of the politics occurs after the forgone conclusion.

Because of this, scientists, who are almost all lefties, use the entirely wrong language and techniques to reach righties. In short, all the facts data and open-mindedness and emiprical rationalism and enlightenment we take for granted, simply does not come into play for the other side and we shoot ourselves in the foot by even trying.

Quite a sweeping statement. Okay, I'll give you university professors, government and government funded scientist, but it is not true in my experience among industry and consulting scientists.

77 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 8:02:38pm

re: #76 compound_Idaho

I think the concept is that if you don't always have 'Profit" in mind --as a business person or corporate employee --you don't have a conservative mindset.

I think it really depends on what your field of study is.

78 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 8:03:57pm

re: #76 compound_Idaho

Well over 95% of the members of the AAAS, APS and NAS are either self identified as liberal or self identified as left leaning independents. That's just the numbers.

79 Kragar  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 8:04:46pm

Sierra Club: Fossil Fuel Industry Funded Decade-Long Attack On Clean Energy

The nation’s largest environmental advocacy group, The Sierra Club, late Thursday released a damning new report which chronicles a variety of efforts over the past decade by the fossil fuel industry and its supporters, including the Koch Brothers and the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC), to undermine public and governmental support for clean energy.

The report finds that “the oil and gas industry spent more than $146 million on lobbying alone in 2011, while Big Oil tycoons David and Charles Koch gave at least $85 million to 85 right-wing ‘think tanks’ and advocacy groups” with the goals of promoting fossil fuels over clean energy alternatives and ending federal support for clean energy initiatives. The report calls out specific GOP legislators as well for being tools in this scheme, including Representative Mike Pompeo (R-KS).

80 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 8:06:05pm

re: #69 Destro

You leave out the root of all this on the right wing. Dominionist Religion and its laws, including the death penalty for some acts, attributed to some invisible force who told people so in the bronze age.

Really, you mean like those employed by hardline conservative Japanese from the earliest Samurai to imperial Japan, or the atheist Nazis?

See my response in the other thread where you negged daf yomi.

81 researchok  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 8:06:28pm

re: #74 ggt

OK, that is similar to the academic definition (colleges only promoting frm within, etc).

Yes, we can be nurtured with great orthodoxy but if we remain open, we can grow and learn from new ideas.

That is also part of nurture- are we taught question, to be free to question or are we taught to look downwards, always.

As for your family situation, as you note as we grow older we learn there are many things which are not as we thought. As we experience life (a nurture thing), we grow- ideas change, long held beliefs change or are moderated (and sometimes reinforced!) and evern our relationships change with our ever evolving insights.

82 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 8:08:28pm

re: #80 LudwigVanQuixote

Really, you mean like those employed by hardline conservative Japanese from the earliest Samurai to imperial Japan, or the atheist Nazis?

See my response in the other thread where you negged daf yomi.

Thank you, Ludwig. LGF is a hardball site, to be sure, but Destro carries on in such an ugly manner that he just begs to be smacked down.

83 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 8:09:33pm
84 palomino  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 8:09:40pm

re: #78 LudwigVanQuixote

Well over 95% of the members of the AAAS, APS and NAS are either self identified as liberal or self identified as left leaning independents. That's just the numbers.

As Colbert says, "Reality has a well known liberal bias." I'm sure scientists, particularly in the area of climatology, can relate.

85 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 8:11:14pm

re: #75 ggt

The discussion tonite is probably way above my current brain functioning level. I'm on about 3 cylinders tonite.

Thanks for your patience and understanding :)

I'm still recovering from the discovery of the Red Army Choir singing "Sixteen Tons".

NOT KIDDING.

86 palomino  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 8:12:43pm

re: #82 Dark_Falcon

Thank you, Ludwig. LGF is a hardball site, to be sure, but Destro carries on in such an ugly manner that he just begs to be smacked down.

I'm sure I missed something, but his posts seem well reasoned and in the case of right wing Christians, he's certainly got a point regarding the conservative mindset.

87 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 8:12:51pm

re: #81 researchok

As for your family situation, as you note as we grow older we learn there are many things which are not as we thought.

One can only hope!!!

:)

88 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 8:13:36pm

re: #85 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm still recovering from the discovery of the Red Army Choir singing "Sixteen Tons".

NOT KIDDING.

[Embedded content]

Not really surprising. Using America's music as an attack on America: Very much in line with the USSR's tactics.

89 researchok  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 8:14:01pm

re: #87 ggt

As sure as the sun rises in the east and sets in the west.

We spend out life learning.

90 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 8:15:05pm

re: #66 researchok

I asked for your opinion and I am grateful for it.

However, I must challenge some of your assertions. The origin of the mindset, nature or nurture is immaterial to the points. The origin of the mindsets does not affect this discussion of their implications.

As to the very anti-hierarchy way you phrased your response about some people being lesser, I have a question that gets in the way of my consistent data evaluation:

Is it not always, obviously empirically the case that some people have lesser abilities than others? I don't mean in a moral sense per se. I certainly don't mean anything to do with race or genetics per se.

I mean just empirically, not all of us can be an olympic swimmer or a mathematician or a concert violinist, no matter how hard we might try.

By the same token, clearly some folks are better at analytical thinking than others for whatever reason. In skills that require analytical thinking, are not those who can't add, or reason their way out of a paper bag at an obvious disadvantage?

Do you want a moron as your heart surgeon for example?

So what is wrong with identifying a mindset that is counter to rational thinking skills? Why is it a bad thing to admit it exists? It clearly does.

91 Kragar  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 8:15:13pm

Paged with a link to the full report

Sierra Club report - Clean Energy Under Siege

92 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 8:15:17pm

re: #89 researchok

As sure as the sun rises in the east and sets in the west.

We spend out life learning.

but accepting is a different thing all together.

I still have issues with the new Mr. Spock . . . .

93 researchok  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 8:15:54pm

re: #88 Dark_Falcon

No matter.

It isn't as if that worked out so well for them.

94 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 8:16:28pm

re: #88 Dark_Falcon

Not really surprising. Using America's music as an attack on America: Very much in line with the USSR's tactics.

Not sure when this was done. They're still recording, IIRC. I've also seen a video of them doing 'Let My People Go', which, if you're an old Soviet Jewry hand, is really mind-blowingly weird.

95 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 8:17:00pm

re: #94 SanFranciscoZionist

Not sure when this was done. They're still recording, IIRC. I've also seen a video of them doing 'Let My People Go', which, if you're an old Soviet Jewry hand, is really mind-blowingly weird.

Yeah no shit.

96 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 8:18:47pm

re: #86 palomino

I'm sure I missed something, but his posts seem well reasoned and in the case of right wing Christians, he's certainly got a point regarding the conservative mindset.

You haven't seen his Pages. Here's one of his 'gems' from a little less than two weeks ago. The post from wlewisiii is in italics, Destro's reply is in plain text:

re: #9 William Barnett-Lewis

The driving force behind the legislation was a series of lawsuits brought by large city governments against the manufacturers saying, in essence, what you said above - we can't legislate you out of existence because we can't get the votes so we're going to sue you out of existence. I don't normally think that legislative interference in such matters is needed since the courts can sort legitimate claims on their own. However, in this case, several mayors (New York & Chicago especially) had made it clear that they would keep filing essentially nonsense suits to try any bankrupt the makers because they had failed to make a sufficient case for their policies to the country as a whole.

That is not how our system runs. Right now - for good or bad as you may think - there is a legal understanding that possession of a gun is a right that has a higher priority than certain ideas of safety in an urban environment. Given our history and mythologies as a nation, that is not going to change soon.

I have my CC permit. I hope & pray that I will never need fall back on a sidearm; indeed, since I have moved to a rural community in June, I have not felt the need to carry and sold the pistol I used to carry every day. I realize, Destro, that this seems alien to you. That said, it is better to have a thing you never need than to need a thing you do not have.

It's not alien to me. I know Americans tend to be homicidal maniacs. I had to learn to not be paranoid when I moved to Europe. It was like I was recovering from post traumatic stress disorder. I never knew my European relatives to even lock their doors and they would not understand why I was doing it. Crime does happen in Europe. Criminals may break into your home but they don't kill when they rob. America's murder rate is an abomination compared to that of other industrialized nations.

And before you can say that guns keep you free.....America has more people behind bars than any free country on earth and more than even Red China. You are the products of a deranged culture and since you never left the asylum you don't know what normal or abnormal is.

97 compound_Idaho  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 8:20:18pm

re: #78 LudwigVanQuixote

I will grant you that those group members are self identified lefties, but they are also self identified scientists.

98 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 8:21:19pm

re: #93 researchok

No matter.

It isn't as if that worked out so well for them.

No, it didn't, But it good to put one's knowledge of the Bad Old Days to use and analyze something from the past. Knowledge is a treasure, but like all the best treasures', you want to bring it out and use it at times, not just have it locked up.

99 palomino  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 8:21:54pm

re: #96 Dark_Falcon

You're right, I haven't seen those pages. Nuance doesn't seem to be his strong point.

And Americans aren't any more maniacally homicidal than others; we're just better shots.//

And I'm guessing that's his post up top that got deleted.

100 Kragar  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 8:23:28pm

re: #99 palomino

And Americans aren't any more maniacally homicidal than others; we're just better shots.//

Which is why we need high-capacity magazines for burst fire weapons.
/

101 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 8:23:41pm

re: #99 palomino

You're right, I haven't seen those pages. Nuance doesn't seem to be his strong point.

And Americans aren't any more maniacally homicidal than others; we're just better shots.

I regret I have only one upding to give!!!

102 palomino  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 8:25:20pm

re: #100 Kragar

Which is why we need high-capacity magazines for burst fire weapons.
/

You just never know when 100 burglars will simultaneously break into your home.

103 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 8:25:20pm

re: #96 Dark_Falcon

You haven't seen his Pages. Here's one of his 'gems' from a little less than two weeks ago. The post from wlewisiii is in italics, Destro's reply is in plain text:

Normal is a setting on the dryer --everyone knows that!

104 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 8:25:24pm

re: #99 palomino

You're right, I haven't seen those pages. Nuance doesn't seem to be his strong point.

And Americans aren't any more maniacally homicidal than others; we're just better shots.//

And I'm guessing that's his post up top that got deleted.

Actually, that comment was by talon_262.

105 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 8:28:17pm

re: #100 Kragar

Which is why we need high-capacity magazines for burst fire weapons.
/

Under Federal law, burst-fire weapons are considered machine guns, and have been required to be registered since 1934. Manufacture and registration of machine guns for civilians was ended by an amendment to the Gun Owner's Protection Act in 1986. The NRA accepted this in exchange for several badly needed changes to to the Gun Control Act of 1968.

106 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 8:29:12pm

re: #105 Dark_Falcon

Under Federal law, burst-fire weapons are considered machine guns, and have been required to be registered since 1934. Manufacture and registration of machine guns for civilians was ended by an amendment to the Gun Owner's Protection Act in 1986. The NRA accepted this in exchange for several badly needed changes to to the Gun Control Act of 1968.

I love your up-to-date encyclopedic knowledge of firearm laws!

107 Kragar  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 8:29:15pm

re: #105 Dark_Falcon

Under Federal law, burst-fire weapons are considered machine guns, and have been required to be registered since 1934. Manufacture and registration of machine guns for civilians was ended by an amendment to the Gun Owner's Protection Act in 1986. The NRA accepted this in exchange for several badly needed changes to to the Gun Control Act of 1968.

That does not mitigate their need.

108 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 8:30:05pm

re: #107 Kragar

That does not mitigate their need.

zombies?

109 Kragar  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 8:31:36pm

re: #108 ggt

zombies?

Only a fool attempts to use burst fire weapons against an undead horde.

110 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 8:31:44pm

re: #106 ggt

I love your up-to-date encyclopedic knowledge of firearm laws!

It has its uses, and some of our current debates have seen those uses. It's important to be able to knock off bad memes before they start. Facts matter, and accurate background information is often the key to being able to make sure a discussion stays fact-based.

111 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 8:32:43pm

re: #109 Kragar

Only a fool attempts to use burst fire weapons against an undead horde.

IT'S WHAT THEY DO IN THE MOVIES!!!!

so, it has to be right!

:)

112 Kragar  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 8:33:37pm

re: #111 ggt

IT'S WHAT THEY DO IN THE MOVIES!!!!

so, it has to be right!

:)

And that is why all those guys die in the movies.

113 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 8:33:59pm

re: #109 Kragar

Only a fool attempts to use burst fire weapons against an undead horde.

I don't see why. An M2 or M# .50 cal MG would be just the ticket as far as I can see: Enough hitting power to knock any zombie down, thus slowing them. Further, the huge rounds it fire will go through the hit zombie and hit other behind it.

114 Kragar  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 8:35:17pm

re: #113 Dark_Falcon

I don't see why. An M2 or M# .50 cal MG would be just the ticket as far as I can see: Enough hitting power to knock any zombie down, thus slowing them. Further, the huge rounds it fire will go through the hit zombie and hit other behind it.

And they're knocked down for bit, maybe become crawlers, then keep coming while you waste more ammo.

115 researchok  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 8:35:20pm

re: #90 LudwigVanQuixote

I asked for your opinion and I am grateful for it.

However, I must challenge some of your assertions. The origin of the mindset, nature or nurture is immaterial to the points. The origin of the mindsets does not affect this discussion of their implications.

As to the very anti-hierarchy way you phrased your response about some people being lesser, I have a question that gets in the way of my consistent data evaluation:

Is it not always, obviously empirically the case that some people have lesser abilities than others? I don't mean in a moral sense per se. I certainly don't mean anything to do with race or genetics per se.

I mean just empirically, not all of us can be an olympic swimmer or a mathematician or a concert violinist, no matter how hard we might try.

By the same token, clearly some folks are better at analytical thinking than others for whatever reason. In skills that require analytical thinking, are not those who can't add, or reason their way out of a paper bag at an obvious disadvantage?

Do you want a moron as you heart surgeon for example?

So what is wrong with identifying a mindset that is counter to rational thinking skills? Why is it a bad thing to admit it exists? It clearly does.

Of course- there are some people with lesser capacities,but how do we make that assessment- by virtue of their politics? You more than I know there are plenty of smart people are morons- heart surgeons included. Just because one is proficient at a particular task or tasks does not necessarily mean they can fins their way out of a barn with 2 walls. On the other hand, there are high school dropouts who can fix anything.

Yes, there are some people with great analytic skills but not much else. There people with great analytic skills who make everything they touch turn to gold. And we haven't even discussed what analytic skills means.

Most people fall somewhere in the middle

To go back, you asked if some people have lesser abilities. Yes, there are but culture has a big hand in deciding who those people are.

An Arab who goes to a psychiatrist and says 'I don't want to kill Jews' is told he is crazy and can be institutionalized (not hyperbole- ask Wafa Sultan)

There are Jewish scholars of great intellect and there the righteous who walk among the people. Defining hierarchy and even abilities is a difficult thing.

Rational thinking is also not so easily defined.

Is a surgeon 'higher up' than a charity worker? Is the rich guy who pisses away his money more substantial than the poorer man who buys art?

Also, origins do matter. Lots of studies of twins separated at birth show marked similarities and differences.

Remember, Mensa is full of postmen and factory workers as well as scientists. And believers and atheists.

I'm not sure I'm being coherent here, but I have to get up in a couple of hours.

That's the problem with this place- when you can have a rational conversation here, it's hard to leave!

Plenty of smart people here.

116 researchok  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 8:35:58pm

re: #92 ggt

LOLOL

117 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 8:37:07pm

re: #114 Kragar

And they're knocked down for bit, maybe become crawlers, then keep coming while you waste more ammo.

Yeah, I do seem to remember a lot of wasted ammo.

But, is there anything other than a projectile that will end their suffering and save humanity?

118 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 8:38:47pm

re: #115 researchok

Rational thinking is also not so easily defined.

oy vey

119 Kragar  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 8:39:10pm

re: #117 ggt

Yeah, I do seem to remember a lot of wasted ammo.

But, is there anything other than a projectile that will end their suffering and save humanity?

Crowbar, E-Tool, climbing pick

120 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 8:40:02pm

re: #119 Kragar

Crowbar, E-Tool, climbing pick

used with a propellant or just rapey-stabby type.

121 researchok  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 8:40:29pm

re: #118 ggt

As my dad said on every single summer road trip...'Don't make me explain that to you...Don't make me stop the car...'

122 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 8:40:54pm

re: #121 researchok

Are we there yet?

123 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 8:41:13pm

re: #122 Dancing along the light of day

Are we there yet?

Planet Normal?

124 researchok  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 8:41:57pm

re: #122 Dancing along the light of day

NO!!!!

And you have to whine when you say that- Are we theeeeeere yet?

125 Kragar  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 8:42:20pm

re: #120 ggt

used with a propellant or just rapey-stabby type.

If you've got the skills...

126 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 8:42:26pm

re: #114 Kragar

And they're knocked down for bit, maybe become crawlers, then keep coming while you waste more ammo.

Solution: Improvised grenades. Knock down a few to slow the rest, then throw the grenades. That'll take care of 'em,

127 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 8:44:04pm

re: #126 Dark_Falcon

Solution: Improvised grenades. Knock down a few to slow the rest, then throw the grenades. That'll take care of 'em,

There has to be some common chemical that is not harmful to the living, but will decimate the undead. Holy Water, consecrated wine --something that could be easily dispersed . . .

128 Kragar  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 8:44:20pm

re: #126 Dark_Falcon

Solution: Improvised grenades. Knock down a few to slow the rest, then throw the grenades. That'll take care of 'em,

Your codename is Distraction. You go do your thing while the rest of us go survive over here.

129 researchok  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 8:45:11pm

re: #122 Dancing along the light of day

Actually, my dad had the best way if shutting us up.

When my brother and I were in the back seat at each other's throats, he'd turn around and bellow. "ONE OF YOU KILL THE OTHER! I DON'T CARE WHICH! GET IT DONE AND KEEP QUIET!"

We'd be docile for about 100 miles.

130 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 8:46:38pm

re: #129 researchok

Actually, my dad had the best way if shutting us up.

When my brother and I were in the back seat at each other's throats, he'd turn around and bellow. "ONE OF YOU KILL THE OTHER! I DON'T CARE WHICH! GET IT DONE AND KEEP QUIET!"

We'd be docile for about 100 miles.

ah, the joys of being an only child, with an only child. . . .

131 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 8:46:39pm

Excellent full moon in the sky tonight, if you haven't seen it yet...

132 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 8:47:41pm

re: #131 Dancing along the light of day

Excellent full moon in the sky tonight, if you haven't seen it yet...

uh,o.. . . .

does that mean Kragar might have a point about multi-burst weapons?????

133 researchok  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 8:49:18pm

re: #130 ggt

You don't know what you missed.

We were 5 altogether (last one was a surprise) 4 boys, 1 girl.

I'm closest to my sister. I was the oldest and by default, her protector.

Which was OK by me.

134 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 8:50:12pm

re: #133 researchok

You don't know what you missed.

We were 5 altogether (last one was a surprise) 4 boys, 1 girl.

I'm closest to my sister. I was the oldest and by default, her protector.

Which was OK by me.

And you don't know what you've missed!!!!

LOL

135 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 8:50:57pm

re: #119 Kragar

Crowbar, E-Tool, climbing pick

You need something that gives you an extra few inches of reach and has killy bitz at both ends. I'm a big fan of the Fokos / Valaska.

136 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 8:51:57pm

re: #135 goddamnedfrank

You need something that gives you an extra few inches of reach and has killy bitz at both ends. I'm a big fan of the Fokos / Valaska.

I'd like to see that demonstrated at the Renaissance Fair. Think they could throw it the 1.5 revolutions (or whatever) that it takes?

137 Kragar  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 8:53:15pm

re: #135 goddamnedfrank

You need something that gives you an extra few inches of reach and has killy bitz at both ends. I'm a big fan of the Fokos / Valaska.

If you're talking pole arms, everyone knows the Lucerne Hammer is the best for taking out the restless dead.

138 researchok  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 8:53:17pm

When we took our summer holidays, my dad always insisted on driving till late at night and we'd stay in a cheap ass motel (my dad said he wanted to give the small business people his support. Yeah right).

The restaurants were closed so we'd each be given some coins to hit the vending machines.

There must have been a company that bought out the entire stock of ten year old, expired cans of Spanish grapefruit juice.

Yup, that's what we had.

139 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 8:54:32pm

re: #138 researchok

When we took our summer holidays, my dad always insisted on driving till late at night and we'd stay in a cheap ass motel (my dad said he wanted to give the small business people his support. Yeah right).

The restaurants were closed so we'd each be given some coins to hit the vending machines.

There must have been a company that bought out the entire stock of ten year old, expired cans of Spanish grapefruit juice.

Yup, that's what we had.

See, with an only child, parents have a little extra cash. Such deprivations are not usually necessary. . . .

140 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 8:56:38pm

re: #135 goddamnedfrank

You need something that gives you an extra few inches of reach and has killy bitz at both ends. I'm a big fan of the Fokos / Valaska.

I'm intrigued that this thing is described as a 'walking stick'. I can see that it might fulfill several functions, but the first term that comes into my head is 'ax'.

141 researchok  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 8:56:54pm

re: #139 ggt

Yes, but we had the pleasure of tormenting each other.

142 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 8:57:10pm

re: #141 researchok

Yes, but we had the pleasure of tormenting each other.

Yeah, I don't get that . . .

143 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 8:58:32pm

re: #137 Kragar

If you're talking pole arms, everyone knows the Lucerne Hammer is the best for taking out the restless dead.

You know, I heard a bowstaff is the most potent weapon available if in the right hands . . . .

144 researchok  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 8:58:38pm

re: #142 ggt

A lost soul.
//

145 researchok  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 8:59:14pm

I'm outta here- for a couple of hours, anyway.

Please, continue the beatings.

146 Kragar  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 9:00:15pm

re: #143 ggt

You know, I heard a bowstaff is the most potent weapon available if in the right hands . . . .

True, but you need to guarantee penetrating and destroying the brain with a zombie

147 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 9:00:32pm

re: #146 Kragar

True, but you need to guarantee penetrating and destroying the brain with a zombie

ah!

148 funky chicken  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 9:03:11pm

re: #2 LudwigVanQuixote

If Romney is elected, that four degree world of catastrophic warming is almost assured.

Perhaps someone should tell him that will kill his dancing horse too.

He's made it clear he doesn't give a damn about his wife's horses, which makes him even a worse man in my eyes.

149 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 9:03:48pm

re: #146 Kragar

True, but you need to guarantee penetrating and destroying the brain with a zombie

I GOT IT, I GOT IT

How to make their heads explode while only mildly annoying the living.

150 Only The Lurker Knows  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 9:04:22pm

re: #142 ggt

Yeah, I don't get that . . .

It's a sibling thing. You could pound on one another with (almost) impunity. But let someone from outside the Family try to do the same (with out a damn good reason) and all hell would break out. Hell, I taught my little Sister how to fight.

151 Kragar  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 9:05:52pm
152 Mich-again  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 9:09:43pm

Did anyone else see how NBC ran an interview with the darling American gymnastics gold medalist Gabby Douglas, and then cut right to a promo commercial for the new NBC sitcom about veterinarians and there was a monkey doing gymnastics in the commercial... I mean, really? The first African American to win the gold medal in the ladies gymnastics all-around and they follow up her interview with a monkey doing gymnastics? Jeebus. was that someone's idea of a joke to place that one commercial then? OK so it was a male monkey.. Is that their story?

153 Kragar  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 9:10:53pm

re: #152 Mich-again

Did anyone else see how NBC ran an interview with the darling American gymnastics gold medalist Gabby Douglas, and then cut right to a promo commercial for the new NBC sitcom about veterinarians and their was a monkey doing gymnastics... I mean, really? The first African American to win the gold medal in the ladies gymnastics all-around and they follow up her interview with a monkey doing gymnastics? Jeebus. was that someone's idea of a joke to place that one commercial then?

If they knew anything about taste or tact, they wouldn't be TV execs.

154 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 9:12:04pm

re: #152 Mich-again

Did anyone else see how NBC ran an interview with the darling American gymnastics gold medalist Gabby Douglas, and then cut right to a promo commercial for the new NBC sitcom about veterinarians and there was a monkey doing gymnastics in the commercial... I mean, really? The first African American to win the gold medal in the ladies gymnastics all-around and they follow up her interview with a monkey doing gymnastics? Jeebus. was that someone's idea of a joke to place that one commercial then? OK so it was a male monkey.. Is that their story?

stupid is as stupid does

155 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 9:12:33pm

re: #151 Kragar

Amateur.

[Embedded content]

It's true.

156 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 9:13:41pm

re: #151 Kragar

Amateur.

[Embedded content]

better?

157 compound_Idaho  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 9:16:46pm

re: #138 researchok

When we took our summer holidays, my dad always insisted on driving till late at night and we'd stay in a cheap ass motel (my dad said he wanted to give the small business people his support. Yeah right).

The restaurants were closed so we'd each be given some coins to hit the vending machines.

There must have been a company that bought out the entire stock of ten year old, expired cans of Spanish grapefruit juice.

Yup, that's what we had.

We did the mega road trip every other summer to see grandma, grandma and family. (So. CA to LA to KY to MI and back to CA in a piece of shit '64 ford econline van). No motels unless there was a tornado warning. I remember my dad breaking down the tent in the rain in his swimsuit early in the morning; mom and 5 kids watching from the car. My dad is a hell of a man. Took me a while to realize that. Harvard Phd, nuclear scientist, family man, pretty good athlete and all around regular guy.

158 Kragar  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 9:18:28pm
159 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 9:20:06pm

re: #152 Mich-again

Did anyone else see how NBC ran an interview with the darling American gymnastics gold medalist Gabby Douglas, and then cut right to a promo commercial for the new NBC sitcom about veterinarians and there was a monkey doing gymnastics in the commercial... I mean, really? The first African American to win the gold medal in the ladies gymnastics all-around and they follow up her interview with a monkey doing gymnastics? Jeebus. was that someone's idea of a joke to place that one commercial then? OK so it was a male monkey.. Is that their story?

I doubt it was intentional, and I'm proud of Ms. Douglas and her representation of this country.

(Also, she's photogenic, which as Sarah Robles could point out, is going to be a big plus for her in getting endorsements.)

160 funky chicken  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 9:20:36pm

re: #17 Varek Raith

The Wall Street Journal: Dismissing Environmental Threats Since 1976

LOLZ. Rivers are supposed to catch fire in Cleveland, and trees are all supposed to die in upper New York!

It's shocking to me that most coal power plants in the western US still don't use scrubber technology to reduce acid rain. I like my electricity, but I'd like it even more if it came from a place that didn't belch sulfur compounds into the atmosphere.

161 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 9:20:57pm

re: #152 Mich-again

Did anyone else see how NBC ran an interview with the darling American gymnastics gold medalist Gabby Douglas, and then cut right to a promo commercial for the new NBC sitcom about veterinarians and there was a monkey doing gymnastics in the commercial... I mean, really? The first African American to win the gold medal in the ladies gymnastics all-around and they follow up her interview with a monkey doing gymnastics? Jeebus. was that someone's idea of a joke to place that one commercial then? OK so it was a male monkey.. Is that their story?

Christ. Crouton. What?

162 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 9:23:29pm

re: #159 Mostly sane, most of the time.

I doubt it was intentional, and I'm proud of Ms. Douglas and her representation of this country.

(Also, she's photogenic, which as Sarah Robles could point out, is going to be a big plus for her in getting endorsements.)

She is very, very pretty. And an amazing athlete.

163 funky chicken  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 9:27:40pm

re: #157 compound_Idaho

We did the mega road trip every other summer to see grandma, grandma and family. (So. CA to LA to KY to MI and back to CA in a piece of shit '64 ford econline van). No motels unless there was a tornado warning. I remember my dad breaking down the tent in the rain in his swimsuit early in the morning; mom and 5 kids watching from the car. My dad is a hell of a man. Took me a while to realize that. Harvard Phd, nuclear scientist, family man, pretty good athlete and all around regular guy.

and a sadist. shudder. road trips with a tent? in louisiana and kentucky?

just fly grandma out to california to see the family.

your mother must be a saint, because there ain't no way...

164 funky chicken  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 9:29:07pm

re: #152 Mich-again

Did anyone else see how NBC ran an interview with the darling American gymnastics gold medalist Gabby Douglas, and then cut right to a promo commercial for the new NBC sitcom about veterinarians and there was a monkey doing gymnastics in the commercial... I mean, really? The first African American to win the gold medal in the ladies gymnastics all-around and they follow up her interview with a monkey doing gymnastics? Jeebus. was that someone's idea of a joke to place that one commercial then? OK so it was a male monkey.. Is that their story?

Eh, monkeys are cute and great natural gymnasts. I doubt these folks are closet KKKlukers.

165 R.M, Ramallo  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 9:32:27pm

re: #152 Mich-again

{{sigh}}
I've just learned not to expect much...
Still happy she won the gold though.

166 Mich-again  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 9:32:36pm

re: #161 SanFranciscoZionist

Christ. Crouton. What?

I'm sure the ad was unintentionally placed like that, but you'd think someone along the line might stop and say, hmm. maybe wait till the next segment to run that one.

167 compound_Idaho  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 9:41:12pm

re: #163 funky chicken

My mom is a Boston Univ. trained saint. I used to wonder what my folks were thinking at age 25. At 50, I wonder what I was thing at age 25. Now that my daughter will soon be 25 I wonder what she is thinking.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

168 Destro  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 9:41:59pm

re: #71 ggt

You mean Dante's vision hell isn't part of the Bible?

The point is if you have a political party like the Republicans whose base is composed of in large numbers people who think the world will end by supernatural means they will be more willing to accept disastrous energy policies or be duped into doing so.

169 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 9:42:01pm

nytol!

170 Destro  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 9:48:25pm

re: #80 LudwigVanQuixote

Really, you mean like those employed by hardline conservative Japanese from the earliest Samurai to imperial Japan, or the atheist Nazis?

See my response in the other thread where you negged daf yomi.

The biggest supporters of Tojo in Japan were the religious parties. But that is neither here nor there. Religionists always point to the evil done by non religous men and then say see, world leaders should be more religous, overlooking the deeds of equally barbaric acts religous people have carried out. The reality is religion does not act as a check on humans nor does it egg them on to more violence in war. Humans are what they are if they had religion or not.

I won't respect religions that pretty much call for death penalties for apostacy or homosexuality or for mowing your lawn on certain days of the week, etc.

171 funky chicken  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 9:49:03pm

re: #167 compound_Idaho

I am willing to camp in a Hampton Inn. Like I said, I'm partial to electricity and running water. I'm not partial to sleeping outdoors in sticky Southern heat with icky Southern bugs.

And with 5 kids! Wow.

172 funky chicken  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 9:50:49pm

off to bed. good night all.

173 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 9:55:03pm

83 million Facebook accounts are not real.

I knew of one case where they stole a guy's dorm mattress, took pictures of it all over campus, then created a facebook account for the mattress and sent him a friend request from his own mattress, complete with pictures so he could see what it was out doing.

174 Mich-again  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 10:00:09pm

re: #173 Mostly sane, most of the time.

83 million Facebook accounts are not real.

I knew of one case where they stole a guy's dorm mattress, took pictures of it all over campus, then created a facebook account for the mattress and sent him a friend request from his own mattress, complete with pictures so he could see what it was out doing.

And a few hundred million more real ones no one cares about anymore. (Queues the slowly decreasing pitch whistling noise of a bomb dropping..)

175 Kragar  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 10:00:30pm

re: #173 Mostly sane, most of the time.

83 million Facebook accounts are not real.

I knew of one case where they stole a guy's dorm mattress, took pictures of it all over campus, then created a facebook account for the mattress and sent him a friend request from his own mattress, complete with pictures so he could see what it was out doing.

83% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

True story.

176 dragonath  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 10:03:09pm

re: #170 Destro

I won't respect religions that pretty much call for death penalties for apostacy or homosexuality or for mowing your lawn on certain days of the week, etc.

WTF, man.

177 Only The Lurker Knows  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 10:06:27pm

Night Lizards.

178 CuriousLurker  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 10:14:26pm

re: #176 Fred Galt

WTF, man.

Well, seeing as how the first cylinder lawn mower wasn't invented until 1827, it must be a fairly new religion. // Oh, and before I check out for the night, watch out for these. Laters.

179 Mocking Jay  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 10:17:47pm

re: #176 Fred Galt

Exodus 35:2

Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.

180 Kragar  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 10:17:52pm

re: #178 CuriousLurker

Well, seeing as how the first cylinder lawn mower wasn't invented until 1827, it must be a fairly new religion. // Oh, and before I check out for the night, watch out for these. Laters.

Honor the Sabbath.

181 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 10:20:32pm

re: #176 Fred Galt

He is unhappy because my gentle suggestions to him are turning into a spanking in another thread.

182 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 10:35:56pm

re: #181 LudwigVanQuixote

Spankings?

183 Mich-again  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 10:37:01pm

Even if GOP advisors don't buy into climate science, their economic strategy should still come to the same conclusion as the rational people of the world. For our civilization to be sustainable we need to reduce our consumption of energy and other resources as well.

Economic growth is limited by availability of limited resources, so sustaining growth requires conserving those resources. Otherwise increasing demand drives higher prices for the resources and that becomes a speed governor on economic growth. This isn't an explanation that requires any numbers, the shape of the curve is enough.

Mitt's energy advisors all promote the GOP strategy to just keep expanding the supply of resources to support more consumption for economic growth and forget any talk about conserving anything. But that won't work. The only way for there to be sustainable economic growth is by conserving resources to drive prices lower.

184 freetoken  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 11:00:57pm
185 Cap'n Magic  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 11:05:55pm

re: #31 b_sharp

Especially Vir Cotto's reply to Mr. Morden when he was asked 'what he wanted':

I'd like to live just long enough to be there when they cut off your head and stick it on a pike as a warning to the next ten generations that some favors come with too high a price. I would look up into your lifeless eyes and wave like this. Can you and your associates arrange that for me, Mr. Morden?

186 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 11:06:35pm

re: #179 Mocking Jay

Exodus 35:2

Now, can someone point me to any even slightly mainstream religious leader who advocates the death penalty for grass-cutting, or is this like the people who know six verses of the Koran and have worked out that all Muslims are committed to never-ending war against non-Muslims?

187 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 11:07:14pm

re: #185 Cap'n Magic

Especially Vir Cotto's reply to Mr. Morden when he was asked 'what he wanted':

I love Vir.

I especially love the little hand gesture that accompanies that speech.

188 Targetpractice  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 11:07:53pm

re: #185 Cap'n Magic

Especially Vir Cotto's reply to Mr. Morden when he was asked 'what he wanted':

And, in the end, he got what he wanted:

189 freetoken  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 11:15:49pm

None other than the legendary Jascha Heifetz, from 1926, playing Debussy:


190 Digital Display  Thu, Aug 2, 2012 11:57:08pm

Good Morning..Welcome to the late night Journal of the Hoopster..
Winston and I are traveling the country to find a landing place to semi-retire and live life to it's fullest. We are currently embarked upon a 2 week road trip to the Ozarks, Indy and Lake Tomahawk, Wi. ( Can't wait to meet up with all my Friends in Indiana ). Moving back home to California is still near the top of my list.
Today was a complete disaster
It is so hot here that when I packed the car before sunrise it was a 100 degrees..At around 114 today the A/C would not work at all. It was like I have a hair dryer blown in the car..It is bad here. I am waylaid here in Norman until Saturday morning when it drops to 102. Then it's the great escape.

191 SpaceJesus  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 12:10:31am

[Link: thehill.com...]


Speaker Boehner: "Obama has 'never even had a real job, for God's sake"


GOP: "teaching isn't a real job."

192 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 12:15:02am

re: #190 Digital Display

ROAD TRIP! Be well & get your AC checked before you go!
Oh, and it's a lovely 72 here right now ;)

193 AK-47%  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 12:19:01am

re: #152 Mich-again

Did anyone else see how NBC ran an interview with the darling American gymnastics gold medalist Gabby Douglas, and then cut right to a promo commercial for the new NBC sitcom about veterinarians and there was a monkey doing gymnastics in the commercial... I mean, really? The first African American to win the gold medal in the ladies gymnastics all-around and they follow up her interview with a monkey doing gymnastics? Jeebus. was that someone's idea of a joke to place that one commercial then? OK so it was a male monkey.. Is that their story?

i recall that there was a scandal during the original broadcast of "The Holocaust", after a scene which shows Jews being marked off to a smoking crematorium and then a cut to a commercial in which a grandma wrinkles her nose and the off-camera voice asks "Kitchen odors?" and offers a Proctor and Gamble product to help mask them...

194 Kragar  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 12:24:15am

re: #191 SpaceJesus

GOP: "teaching isn't a real job."

It sure isn't. You actually get paid for real jobs.
///

195 Targetpractice  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 12:56:18am

re: #191 SpaceJesus

[Link: thehill.com...]

Speaker Boehner: "Obama has 'never even had a real job, for God's sake"

GOP: "teaching isn't a real job."

I guess the latest poll numbers are starting to make the GOP leadership nervous.

196 researchok  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 1:05:30am

Morning, all

197 AK-47%  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 1:06:38am

re: #195 Targetpractice

I guess the latest poll numbers are starting to make the GOP leadership nervous.

Not just the poll numbers, but the entire campaign: what can Romney run on? His record as governeor of Massachutsetts? Romneycare and pro-life? His record at Ban Capital? Absentee CEO of an outsourcing company?

All he can really run on is fear and hatred of Obama and everything Obama stands for.

198 researchok  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 1:13:14am

re: #184 freetoken

Favorited.

199 AK-47%  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 1:23:47am

"“Any individual who is able to raise [enough money] to be considered presidential is not going to be much use to the people at large. He will represent … whatever moneyed entities are paying for him … Hence, the sense of despair throughout the land as incomes fall, businesses fail and there is no redress.”

-Gore Vidal

Hit the nail on the head.

200 freetoken  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 2:12:07am
201 freetoken  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 3:13:49am

Hmmm... quiet in here...

202 Obdicut  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 3:44:46am

re: #201 freetoken

Too quiet.

[Link: www.scp-wiki.net...]

203 Decatur Deb  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 3:55:42am

Wackenhut Security, perhaps the most dangerous paramilitary in America, learns not to screw with old nuns.

U.S. nuclear bomb facility shut after security breach

[Link: www.reuters.com...]

204 Lidane  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 4:01:49am

re: #195 Targetpractice

I guess the latest poll numbers are starting to make the GOP leadership nervous.

That's what happens when your candidate sucks.

205 Lidane  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 4:02:42am

re: #197 Expand Your Ground

Not just the poll numbers, but the entire campaign: what can Romney run on?

Mitt Romney: An Etch for Every Sketch

206 Obdicut  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 4:08:04am

re: #203 Decatur Deb

You might like this stuff:

[Link: www.scp-wiki.net...]

207 Decatur Deb  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 4:14:28am

re: #206 Obdicut

You might like this stuff:

[Link: www.scp-wiki.net...]

Ha. Is that a real alternate-belief item or a send-up site? It reads like a model for nutcases. (Good website production values, though.)

208 freetoken  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 4:14:41am
209 Obdicut  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 4:20:09am

re: #207 Decatur Deb

Ha. Is that a real alternate-belief item or a send-up site? It reads like a model for nutcases. (Good website production values, though.)

It's a creative send-up site. Some of the entries are creepy-awesome, some are hilarious.

[Link: scp-wiki.wikidot.com...]

210 Decatur Deb  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 4:25:43am

re: #209 Obdicut

It's a creative send-up site. Some of the entries are creepy-awesome, some are hilarious.

[Link: scp-wiki.wikidot.com...]

Must be a bunch of real meat-beings involved. The volume of keystrokes is phenomenal. If it attracts naive true believers, it could be useful as a social psych experiment.

211 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 4:28:28am

It seems while I was spending the night sleeping, a religious food fight broke out on the "Shadow" thread and some of it slopped over here.

212 Obdicut  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 4:29:24am

re: #210 Decatur Deb

Must be a bunch of real meat-beings involved. The volume of keystrokes is phenomenal. If it attracts naive true believers, it could be useful as a social psych experiment.

It does attract the true believers, but they have a rigorous format enforced for writing up incidents, so the true whackaloons won't make it through.

213 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 4:30:45am

re: #186 SanFranciscoZionist

Now, can someone point me to any even slightly mainstream religious leader who advocates the death penalty for grass-cutting, or is this like the people who know six verses of the Koran and have worked out that all Muslims are committed to never-ending war against non-Muslims?

This is a straw man for religion-bashing. It is the equivalent of saying that atheists want to execute people who remove a baby's foreskin.

214 Decatur Deb  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 4:34:20am

re: #212 Obdicut

It does attract the true believers, but they have a rigorous format enforced for writing up incidents, so the true whackaloons won't make it through.

Just read their rulebook. It would be a good standard for bloggers everywhere. I get a little creeped out when people (even Colbert) are too relentless about staying in character.

215 AK-47%  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 4:41:58am

re: #213 Learned Mother of Zion

This is a straw man for religion-bashing. It is the equivalent of saying that atheists want to execute people who remove a baby's foreskin.

There are an awful lot of Muslims who do not take the Koran literally or obey its laws strictly, they just accept it as part of their social and cultural heritage.

There are others who take it seriously but would not impose it on others through force or legislation.

And there are those who would. And they, like our Islamophobe frineds, insist that the rest are not "True Muslims".

It is only the latter group we really need worry about, but if we lump them all together we risk driving the reasonable ones into the extremist camp.

216 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 4:43:41am
217 AK-47%  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 4:48:14am

re: #216 Learned Mother of Zion

Some people have no sense of humor.

Hate to say it, but the gunmen are probably laughing their asses off right now...

218 Decatur Deb  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 4:53:18am

re: #216 Learned Mother of Zion

Some people have no sense of humor.

If I were an agent, I'd book a lot of stand-up comics there. Looking at you, Tosh.

219 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 4:55:05am

re: #218 Decatur Deb

If I were an agent, I'd book a lot of stand-up comics there. Looking at you, Tosh.

Mogadishu has the toughest hecklers!

220 Decatur Deb  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 4:55:47am

re: #219 Learned Mother of Zion

Mogadishu has the toughest hecklers!

Take my wives, please.

222 AK-47%  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 5:07:05am

re: #221 Learned Mother of Zion

Some people will complain about ANYTHING.

This is the kind of crap gossip you would hear on any street corner or beauty shop, but thatnks to Twitter, it is enshrined for the ages...

223 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 5:11:29am

re: #222 Expand Your Ground

This is the kind of crap gossip you would hear on any street corner or beauty shop, but thatnks to Twitter, it is enshrined for the ages...

The last time any Olympic athlete set a trend in hairstyles was that figure skater in the '70's with her layered 'do.

The trend now is to tie back and gel the hair to within an inch of its life so that it doesn't get in the way of the athlete's performance. They could shave their heads or wear tight fitting skull caps.

224 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 5:51:03am

Morning Lizardim. Happy Friday from the wild north country. I know it's been a while since I checked in, but these days, I'm getting the bureaucratic runaround at work and can't spend a lot of time online. What's new from the front lines in the war on derp?

225 Varek Raith  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 5:52:28am

re: #224 thedopefishlives

Morning Lizardim. Happy Friday from the wild north country. I know it's been a while since I checked in, but these days, I'm getting the bureaucratic runaround at work and can't spend a lot of time online. What's new from the front lines in the war on derp?

I have discovered the joy of Minecraft.

226 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 5:53:26am

re: #225 Varek Raith

I have discovered the joy of Minecraft.

Oh no, we lost another one. The NWO is not going to be happy about this.

227 Obdicut  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 6:10:03am

re: #225 Varek Raith

Check out the site I listed above.

228 Interesting Times  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 6:12:46am
229 lawhawk  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 6:35:49am

Greets and saluts from the NYC metro area. The jobs report is out, and it's a mixed bag. New jobs crushed the expected jobs gain - 163,000 to 95,000, but the unemployment rate increased a notch to 8.3% from 8.2%.

Job gains are offset by the fact that more people are returning to the job market so that affects the percentage unemployed (it doesn't count those who have stopped looking for work). That's how the rate could increase despite more new jobs being created.

Watch President Obama latch on to the number of jobs created as proof his economic policies are working, while Republicans will use the still high 8.3% unemployed rate (or the still higher U-6 rate) to claim that Obama's failed on the economy.

There's also significant regional variations in the figures - California's unemployment rates (U-3 or U-6) are higher than the national averages by a wide margin 11.2% and 20.3%, while South Dakota has rates at 3.4% and 6.1% respectively. Some of this is an echo of the housing bust, and it's also due to the boom in oil shale/fracking in the Dakotas.

230 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 6:52:23am

Graffiti seen on a Chick Fil A franchise here in LA. Overnight someone painted a cow and "Tastes Like Hate" in big letters on the side of the restaurant. What's next, arson?

231 GunstarGreen  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 6:54:37am

re: #40 ggt

There are a lot of right-wingers in my life and I feel like it is Israel and Palestine when we try to discuss something. There seems to be no common ground (except what is under our feet) and I just don't get it.

Our modern political environment has allowed people to disagree on the basic facts of reality. With so many sources of for-profit audience-tailored news media, people can get the facts they want to hear, which are different from the facts other people have heard.

Is Obama up in the polls, or down in the polls? Depends on the poll, and a right-wing outlet will typically only report on the down polls while a left-wing outlet will typically only report on the up polls.

Is global warming an issue? A left-wing source will give you a bunch of scientists that have come to a consensus that it is. A right-wing source will give you a bunch of 'experts' that say the scientists are full of crap and have fudged their numbers.

There can be no meaningful discussion when the parties involved disagree on basic facts. The best strategy when dealing with opposite-side family members, I find, is to start from the bottom and build a consensus of agreed-upon facts. Take, for instance, the health care debate.

So you say it's socialized medicine? Alright, what do we agree is the definition of socialism? Alright, do we agree upon how the VA and Medicare, as programs, function? Now, do you consider the VA to be socialized medicine? Do you consider medicare to be socialized medicine? Keep in mind that *you currently benefit from the VA and medicare*. Do you still think that the ACA is socialized medicine? If so, do you still think that socialized medicine is necessarily bad?

232 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 6:56:05am

*facepalm* My Indian coworker just said, "I think Palin should run for President with Bachmann and they should win once." I told him that the world would implode from the combined weight of their stupid.

233 GunstarGreen  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 6:58:04am

re: #230 Daniel Ballard

Graffiti seen on a Chick Fil A franchise here in LA. Overnight someone painted a cow and "Tastes Like Hate" in big letters on the side of the restaurant. What's next, arson?

When will people learn that breaking the law and harassing people does not help the cause?

234 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 7:00:57am

Morning all!

Did you have your coffee yet. Here, anyway.

How is it?

235 darthstar  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 7:02:26am

Mornin' everyone. Holy shit, that's some serious air time...

236 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 7:03:11am

re: #235 darthstar

Mornin' everyone. Holy shit, that's some serious air time...

[Embedded content]

Doesn't she just make one smile ear-to-ear?

237 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 7:06:18am
238 darthstar  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 7:07:08am

In other words, it was only 163K jobs, but the forecasters were really hoping for 100K.

239 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 7:08:35am

Monster Jam in Vermont!

A farmer in the US state of Vermont who was facing a minor drugs charge is now in more serious trouble after driving a tractor over seven police cars.

Roger Pion crushed the county sheriff's cruisers on Thursday before making his getaway on the farm vehicle.

The 34-year-old was stopped by police in Newport city, northern Vermont, not far from the crime scene.

Sheriff's deputies were unaware of the destruction in their department car park until a resident called 911.

240 GunstarGreen  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 7:10:24am

re: #239 ggt

Monster Jam in Vermont!

SUNDAY, SUNDAY, SUNDAY! Come on down to the turbodome to witness the T-T-T-T-T-T-T-TRACTOR SMASH!

241 darthstar  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 7:10:58am

re: #239 ggt

Monster Jam in Vermont!

That 500 dollar deductible is going to hurt. I'm sure it was just an accident.

242 darthstar  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 7:11:54am

re: #240 GunstarGreen

SUNDAY, SUNDAY, SUNDAY! Come on down to the turbodome to witness the T-T-T-T-T-T-T-TRACTOR SMASH!

Or today's Mark Fiore. (SUNDAY, SUNDAY, SUNDAY!)

243 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 7:13:43am

It's Friday, we deserve a Happy, Smiley story:

"We were talking on the phone one day and he said, 'Will you marry me again?' Henderson recalled. ""I said 'well, well ... yes.' "

Davis tells the News that "I always thought it might happen. ... It was always in the back of my mind."

One of the couple's sons died in 1996. The now adult "kids" who survive seem thrilled by their parents' reunion. Daughter Renita Shadwick tells All Things Considered that:

"I see the way that he comes along beside her and wants to help her as she walks inside a building or the way he scoots around her to open a door. I look at the way my mother smiles at him when he's talking about something. Those are the moments I pray that all children are looking at when they are looking at their parents loving one another."

244 Interesting Times  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 7:16:15am

Heh:

245 darthstar  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 7:18:45am

re: #243 ggt

It's Friday, we deserve a Happy, Smiley story:

We had some friends who got divorced when I was a kid - first divorce I'd heard of and I was confused and scared about what would happen to them. A few years later, they remarried. At the time I thought, OH MY GOD! WHAT ARE THE ODDS OF MEETING THE SAME PERSON TWICE? (I lived in a very rural part of Northern California, and these people lived in "the city"--pop 20,000 at the time--and that was just one big scary fucking place.)

246 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 7:20:55am

Good morning lizards!

247 darthstar  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 7:21:34am

re: #244 Interesting Times

Heh:

[Embedded content]

She needs some love. Let's give it to her.

248 darthstar  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 7:23:42am

re: #247 darthstar

She needs some love. Let's give it to her.

[Embedded content]

Never mind...just read about three or four of her tweets and I was already shuddering with disgust from the contact. Ain't worth it.

249 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 7:25:37am

There is going to be a new Total Recall movie?

Are there no original ideas in Hollywood?

250 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 7:27:17am

re: #245 darthstar

We had some friends who got divorced when I was a kid - first divorce I'd heard of and I was confused and scared about what would happen to them. A few years later, they remarried. At the time I thought, OH MY GOD! WHAT ARE THE ODDS OF MEETING THE SAME PERSON TWICE? (I lived in a very rural part of Northern California, and these people lived in "the city"--pop 20,000 at the time--and that was just one big scary fucking place.)

LOL, kids have the most unique perspectives!!!

251 darthstar  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 7:27:53am

Fuck yeah...good read about how Harry Reid is fucking with Romney:

Harry Reid is the honey badger; he doesn’t give a shit. He has the advantages of being the Senate Majority Leader which comes with a bully pulpit that can’t be ignored, he’s not some bomb-throwing back bencher, and he is a fellow Mormon who, like Jon Huntsman, seems to harbor a white-hot hatred of all things Mitt. Reid is most likely serving his last term in the senate and he’s is plainly tired of fucking around with Republicans and fully intends to bury their standard bearer which can have down ticket implications if depressed Republicans decide to stay home on election day because their top of the ticket prospects look like they are deader than Bob Dole’s dick.

It's good to have balls. You go, Harry!

252 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 7:28:48am

re: #251 darthstar

Fuck yeah...good read about how Harry Reid is fucking with Romney:

It's good to have balls. You go, Harry!

Yes, it should be so much fun!!!

/I'm really tired of it, but I'll have some popcorn anyway.

253 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 7:29:06am

going back to bed for a while.

Have a great one all!

254 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 7:32:11am

re: #249 ggt

There is going to be a new Total Recall movie?

Are there no original ideas in Hollywood?

I'm sure there are, it's just that producers are more likely to choose a project based on a previous blockbuster hit than on a new idea that might not be successful.

255 Varek Raith  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 7:33:16am

re: #227 Obdicut

Check out the site I listed above.

Methinks I'll be reading that one for ages to come.
Neat.

256 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 7:33:53am

re: #251 darthstar

Fuck yeah...good read about how Harry Reid is fucking with Romney:

It's good to have balls. You go, Harry!

Jon Stewart tells Harry Reid to ‘shut up’ after ‘bullsh*t’ shot on Mitt Romney

Jon Stewart ridiculed Senate Majority leader Harry Reid last night for accusing Mitt Romney of not paying any taxes for 10 years.

“Here’s a rule of thumb, if you have to follow your claim with the words, ‘I don’t know if this is true’ then shut up.” Stewart said, comparing Reid to Donald Trump.

Stewart then launched a segment called “You Harry Reid are Really Really Terrible” and proceeded to ridicule Reid.

“You’re the Senate Majority Leader, you can’t just run to the Side-Boob Gazette with ridiculous speculations,” Stewart said, jokingly referring to the Huffington Post.

Stewart also criticized Reid for making speculations about what Mitt Romney’s father thought about his son's decision not to release his tax returns.

“I can’t believe you just went dead-Dad shame on Mitt Romney,” Stewart said incredulously. “That is a bulls*it shot.”

It's good to have balls. You go, Jon!

257 Shropshire_Slasher  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 7:34:52am

re: #221 Learned Mother of Zion
She's beautful and has that glowing infectious smile. I look forward to seeing her on my Wheaties box!

258 darthstar  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 7:35:07am

re: #249 ggt

There is going to be a new Total Recall movie?

Are there no original ideas in Hollywood?

Next month, the remake of The Dark Night Rises is coming out.

259 Interesting Times  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 7:37:13am
260 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 7:37:44am

re: #251 darthstar

re: #256 NJDhockeyfan

‘I don’t know if this is true’ but from what I hear Harry Reid has illegal HBO and Cinemax!

261 darthstar  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 7:38:06am

re: #256 NJDhockeyfan

Jon Stewart tells Harry Reid to ‘shut up’ after ‘bullsh*t’ shot on Mitt Romney

It's good to have balls. You go, Jon!

Yep. It's all fair. But hey, the Washington Examiner is actually doing a positive piece on Comedy Central and Jon Stewart! Who ever thought THAT would happen!

262 Interesting Times  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 7:38:27am
263 iossarian  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 7:38:59am

re: #261 darthstar

Yep. It's all fair. But hey, the Washington Examiner is actually doing a positive piece on Comedy Central and Jon Stewart! Who ever thought THAT would happen!

It's also an easy way for Stewart to make his Democrat-criticizing quota without actually doing much damage.

264 Obdicut  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 7:39:07am

re: #251 darthstar

I think it was a fuckup. Reid's rumor is that Romney didn't pay taxes for ten years. If Romney reveals his tax records and 'only' didn't pay taxes for two years, which is what I suspect is true, then some of the yappers will say "See? Reid said ten and it was only two. Dumb democrats."

However, if Romney doesn't release them even under this sort of hyperbolic attack, it is going to make people think "What the fuck is in there?"

265 darthstar  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 7:39:17am

re: #260 sattv4u2

re: #256 NJDhockeyfan

‘I don’t know if this is true’ but from what I hear Harry Reid has illegal HBO and Cinemax!

He's from Las Vegas. Cinemax's "After Dark" movies are part of the morning kids programming there. //

266 iossarian  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 7:39:49am

My questions is, will the VP release any tax returns. Or just show them to the Romney campaign?

That's a discussion for grown-ups behind closed doors, I suppose. Not for the average American voter.

267 darthstar  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 7:41:38am

re: #264 Obdicut

I think it was a fuckup. Reid's rumor is that Romney didn't pay taxes for ten years. If Romney reveals his tax records and 'only' didn't pay taxes for two years, which is what I suspect is true, then some of the yappers will say "See? Reid said ten and it was only two. Dumb democrats."

However, if Romney doesn't release them even under this sort of hyperbolic attack, it is going to make people think "What the fuck is in there?"

If it was two years, and Romney admits it, it looks bad for Romney. Reid could simply say, "Oh, he only fucked over his country for two years...my bad...does anyone still think he should be president?"

268 AK-47%  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 7:44:49am

re: #267 darthstar

If it was two years, and Romney admits it, it looks bad for Romney. Reid could simply say, "Oh, he only fucked over his country for two years...my bad...does anyone still think he should be president?"

Wingnuts are infamous for drooling over every "blockbuster revelation" that is going to "bring Obama down" and revelling in the "total defeat of the Left", etc. It is one of their weak points. The Left will never go away.

Let us not start imitating their behavior.

269 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 7:52:18am

So Romney's plan is basically to make all his rich friends richer by screwing the rest of us, as well as the planet. Could you ask for a more stereotypical villain?

270 Interesting Times  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 7:54:50am

'Put up or shut up'

Sometimes, it's possible to gain and lose the moral high ground very quickly....Mitt Romney had the high ground when Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) made unfounded allegations about the Republican's tax returns. And yet, he somehow managed to cede the high ground soon after.
...
Does Reid have any proof that Romney failed to pay taxes for 10 years? No, it's just an unsubstantiated allegation that Reid carelessly pushed in the media. And does Romney have any proof that the White House is Reid's secret source behind the attack? No, it's just an unsubstantiated allegation that Romney carelessly pushed in the media. High ground, lost.

As for "put up or shut up," is this really the phrase the guy who has been hiding his tax returns wants to use?

271 Aye Pod  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 7:55:03am

re: #268 Expand Your Ground

Let us not start imitating their behavior.

Yeah if this keeps up we'll start saying things like "It's Al Gore's fault" on climate threads.

272 iossarian  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 7:56:04am

re: #271 Aye Pod

Yeah if this keeps up we'll start saying things like "It's Al Gore's fault" on climate threads.

lol

"Put up or shut up," is what I say.

273 makeitstop  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 7:58:08am

re: #251 darthstar

Fuck yeah...good read about how Harry Reid is fucking with Romney:

It's good to have balls. You go, Harry!

And CNN reports that the guy who whispered in Reid's ear is 'a credible source.'

Is it too early for popcorn?

274 Aye Pod  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 7:58:11am

re: #249 ggt

There is going to be a new Total Recall movie?

Are there no original ideas in Hollywood?

It seems like all they ever do is make films.

275 garhighway  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 7:59:37am

re: #269 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

So Romney's plan is basically to make all his rich friends richer by screwing the rest of us, as well as the planet. Could you ask for a more stereotypical villain?

I suppose if he had a monocle and a big furry cat he's be closer to the ideal.

276 AK-47%  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 8:00:57am

re: #271 Aye Pod

Yeah if this keeps up we'll start saying things like "It's Al Gore's fault" on climate threads.

I was having an off night, and you are not gonna let me forget that, are you?

All over a lack of sarc tag...

277 Interesting Times  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 8:02:50am

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: the only rightwing behavior Democrats shouldn't imitate is Breitbart-style lying, since a) it's not necessary, and b) the Corporate Media™ would never let them get away with it.

All the other rightwing behavior (which has, by the way, brought them spectacular success over the past thirty years), meets the "turnabout is fair play" category.

Bottom line? If it works, do it. The alternative is America (and the world) being destroyed by dribbling idiots like this.

278 Aye Pod  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 8:04:30am

re: #276 Expand Your Ground

I was having an off night, and you are not gonna let me forget that, are you?

All over a lack of sarc tag...

Just remember to wear rubber gloves next time you're handling Killgore's frogs ;-)

279 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 8:05:54am

re: #275 garhighway

I suppose if he had a monocle and a big furry cat he's be closer to the ideal.

I don't think he would even need that.

280 Interesting Times  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 8:07:58am

re: #279 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

I don't think he would even need that.

As it is, Mitt looks like a socially awkward, non-charismatic version of Gordon Gekko.

281 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 8:08:02am

re: #260 sattv4u2

re: #256 NJDhockeyfan

‘I don’t know if this is true’ but from what I hear Harry Reid has illegal HBO and Cinemax!

I don’t know if this is true but a 'credible source' says Harry Reid eats babies.

282 Obdicut  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 8:10:52am

re: #281 NJDhockeyfan

I don’t know if this is true but a 'credible source' says Harry Reid eats babies.

The thing is, Romney is not being asked to prove a negative in the classical, undoable sense. It would be trivial for him to defeat these claims by Reid; he just has to release the tax records.

I think it's very clear that Romney has decided that letting the American people know what was up with his taxes is more damaging to him than telling the American people to fuck off, that it's none of their business. But he could, easily, shut Reid up by releasing his taxes.

283 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 8:14:32am

re: #282 Obdicut

The thing is, Romney is not being asked to prove a negative in the classical, undoable sense. It would be trivial for him to defeat these claims by Reid; he just has to release the tax records.

I think it's very clear that Romney has decided that letting the American people know what was up with his taxes is more damaging to him than telling the American people to fuck off, that it's none of their business. But he could, easily, shut Reid up by releasing his taxes.

I understand that but for Harry Reid to claim that Romney paid no taxes for 10 years without proof is dumb.

284 iossarian  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 8:15:23am

re: #283 NJDhockeyfan

I understand that but for Harry Reid to claim that Romney paid no taxes for 10 years without proof is dumb.

He hasn't provided proof... yet.

285 AK-47%  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 8:18:17am

Providing proof from a disreputable or leaked source is also enough to provide Romney with a butt-hurt-indignation smoke cloud.

And as we have seen with the birthers, even certified, verified evidence is not enough to convince them if they refuse to be convinced.

286 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 8:19:19am

New York Yankees Facebook Page Announces Derek Jeter To Miss Rest Of Season Due To Sex Change [UPDATE: A Bunch Of Other Teams Hacked Too]

It's gone now, but it seems the Yankees' Facebook was hacked just now as it posted this breaking news about Derek Jeter's upcoming sexual reassignment surgery. Congratulations to the hacker; we didn't even know they had the Internet in Boston.

Heh.

287 Obdicut  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 8:19:23am

re: #283 NJDhockeyfan

I understand that but for Harry Reid to claim that Romney paid no taxes for 10 years without proof is dumb.

I don't think it's dumb. I think it's unfair, hyperbolic, and risky, but not dumb. Weirdly, Romney's constant fuck-ups on his trip abroad had kind of distracted people from his deceptiveness and arrogance in not releasing his taxes. Reid brought it back to the center again, which is presumably what he was trying to do.

I don't think it was the right thing to do, I think there are plenty of other ways to continue pointing out Romney's unbelievable gall in thinking the American people don't have the right to understand his record as a businessman, but I don't think it was dumb, either.

288 Killgore Trout  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 8:24:14am

A tough new Obama ad that -- surprise! -- is accurate

This ad is tough, but we cannot fault the accuracy of its key points. To some extent, the Romney campaign has been hoist with its own petard by refusing to provide sufficient detail that shows how the numbers add up in Romney’s tax and budget plans. So we are left with the judgment of a respected and independent third party.

We hold campaign ads to a high standard, particularly attack ads. If Romney releases the missing details, and a new analysis finds that Romney can meet the stated goals of his tax plan, then we can certainly revisit this analysis. But, until then, for the first time in this frequently nasty campaign, we award a rare Geppetto Checkmark for a campaign ad.

Hooray!

289 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 8:26:14am

And who is guarding the guardians? Ah, what's it matter? It'll just get MBF'd again.

290 iossarian  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 8:31:20am

re: #288 Killgore Trout

I see their candidate tracker rates Obama as more consistently accurate than Romney, which, although unsurprising, is still quite an achievement for the relentlessly "balanced" Post.

291 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 8:34:45am

re: #288 Killgore Trout

A tough new Obama ad that -- surprise! -- is accurate

Hooray!

Someone's gonna get fired!!

//

292 makeitstop  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 8:35:12am

Who really needs an un-biased fact checker to ascertain that Romney's tax plan is horrible, anyway?

(Rhetorical question.)

293 makeitstop  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 8:37:08am

From the TBogg post:

They haven’t even nominated their guy, they don’t trust him, he’s a terrible campaigner, his wife may be worse, everyone hates him, his campaign staff is a clown car chock full o’ bumblers, stumblers and maladroits, his foreign tour was a disaster, the media (which he ignores) is growing to loathe him more than the general public does, and the Republican convention is only four weeks away at which time Republicans are expected to formally tie the knot with him despite the fact that his unreleased tax returns are undoubtedly a ticking time bomb loaded with tax avoidance maneuvers, overseas accounts, and financial 3-card montes.

And this is all so unfair because Democrats aren’t supposed to punch back.

Pretty on-point.

294 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 8:37:31am

Another Syrian general defects to Turkey

ANOTHER Syrian brigadier general has crossed the border into Turkey to join the ranks of opposition fighters, bringing the total number of rebel generals in Turkey to 29, a diplomat said Friday.

The general was accompanied by his family, he told AFP.

Senior Syrian officers have been crossing into Turkey to link up with the Free Syrian Army on a near daily basis in recent months, often accompanied by rank-and-file troops.

Keep em coming!

295 Killgore Trout  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 8:39:08am

re: #294 NJDhockeyfan

Another Syrian general defects to Turkey

Keep em coming!

I wonder if Assad is going to be wearing a 3 piece suit when they drag him out of a hole in the desert.

296 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 8:42:02am
297 iossarian  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 8:45:12am

re: #296 Learned Mother of Zion

Recipe. For. Disaster.

I see one way in which Romney plans to "strengthen the middle class" is to provide "every family access to a great school and quality teachers".

Now how does he plan to do that, I wonder?

298 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 8:46:24am

re: #295 Killgore Trout

I wonder if Assad is going to be wearing a 3 piece suit when they drag him out of a hole in the desert mediterranean villa.

(lesson learned from the past)
ftfy

299 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 8:46:28am

re: #297 iossarian

I see one way in which Romney plans to "strengthen the middle class" is to provide "every family access to a great school and quality teachers".

Now how does he plan to do that, I wonder?

VOUCHERS!

300 erik_t  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 8:47:45am

re: #297 iossarian

I see one way in which Romney plans to "strengthen the middle class" is to provide "every family access to a great school and quality teachers".

Now how does he plan to do that, I wonder?

Not 'make our schools and teachers great'. 'Provide access to.'

Funny, that.

301 iossarian  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 8:48:31am

re: #299 Learned Mother of Zion

"I plan to strengthen the middle class by providing every family with access to an education that is just as good as they can afford."

302 lawhawk  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 8:49:27am

47 people account for 57.1% of the total money ($230 million) raised by individuals for super PACS. Just over 1,000 donors giving $10,000 or more were responsible for 94% of the money raised. The study was put together by US PIRG and Demos:

At the top of the individual donor pyramid is billionaire casino magnate Sheldon Adelson and his wife, Miriam. They have given (along with their children) more than $36 million, much of it to Winning Our Future, a super PAC aligned with former House speaker and Republican primary candidate Newt Gingrich. More recently, the couple contributed $10 million to Restore Our Future, the super PAC founded by a group of former aides to presumptive GOP nominee Mitt Romney.

Bowie and Lioz point out that big-check writing is not restricted to wealthy conservatives. Hollywood mogul Jeffrey Katzenberg, for example, recently contributed $2 million to Priorities USA Action, a super PAC supporting President Obama. But they said massive contributions such as those from the Adelsons — which represent a sliver of their estimated $24.9 billion net worth — distort the democratic process. They calculate that it would take 321,000 middle-income families, donating an equivalent share of their wealth (0.15 percent), to match the Adelsons’ giving.

303 makeitstop  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 8:49:57am

Hey, Mitt... about that IRA...

In a letter Thursday to senior officials at the Treasury and Labor departments, Reps. George Miller (D-CA), Sander Levin (D-MI), and Chris Van Hollen (D-MD) want to know: Is this legal? How easy is this strategy to get away with? How much does it cost the government every year? And what can be done to end the practice?

“[W]e are alarmed to learn that wealthy taxpayers may be taking advantage of a tax subsidy that is designed to provide for retirement to instead accumulate massive amounts of tax-sheltered assets,” the lawmakers write. “Given your commitment to the rule of law and equitable treatment of taxpayers, we hope that you will evaluate this issue carefully to ensure that a select few are not being provided with a loophole that allows for wrongful tax evasion.”

...

“Some experts have expressed the view that the investments made through these accounts and plans may have been assigned a nominal value that was significantly lower than the fair market value of the investments, perhaps using a liquidation value methodology. In particular, this strategy has been cited as one explanation for how presidential candidate Mitt Romney’s IRA is valued at between $20 and $101 million despite the annual contribution limits that apply to tax-preferred retirement accounts and plans.”

To translate, Romney could have skirted the annual contribution limit if his IRA invested heavily in Bain projects by dramatically lowballing the value of the stakes.

304 jaunte  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 8:50:15am

re: #297 iossarian

*precise definition of 'great' and 'quality' may vary by cost of service.

305 Sionainn  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 8:51:21am

re: #296 Learned Mother of Zion

Recipe. For. Disaster.

What the heck is a "Reagan Economic Zone"?

306 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 8:52:24am

Romney's energy plan:

Streamline permitting for exploration & development
Eliminate regulations on the coal industry
Approve the Keystone pipeline

Romney's jobs plan:

Cut taxes on "job creators"
Eliminate regulations that are stifling "job creators"
Protect workers & businesses from Teh Ebil labor unions

GAH.

307 erik_t  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 8:53:36am

re: #303 makeitstop

Hey, Mitt... about that IRA...

Fucker doesn't have an Individual Retirement Account. He's got a whole Individual Retirement Bank.

308 iossarian  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 8:54:02am

re: #303 makeitstop

Hey, Mitt... about that IRA...

It's fraud plain and simple. There is no way that you can invest $15K a year in some account and have it be worth $100M a few years later just because you got lucky.

I pity the peons voting for these guys while they literally siphon off the gains in productivity from the American workforce so they can fly their horses around the world, first-class.

309 erik_t  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 8:54:22am

re: #305 Sionainn

What the heck is a "Reagan Economic Zone"?

It's the thing that made me burst out laughing.

310 Eventual Carrion  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 8:54:55am

re: #193 Expand Your Ground

i recall that there was a scandal during the original broadcast of "The Holocaust", after a scene which shows Jews being marked off to a smoking crematorium and then a cut to a commercial in which a grandma wrinkles her nose and the off-camera voice asks "Kitchen odors?" and offers a Proctor and Gamble product to help mask them...

Well, Proctor and Gamble are of satan anyway from what I hear.

See

311 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 8:55:00am

re: #305 Sionainn

I found this... *crosses fingers truthdig is run by decent people*
[Link: www.truthdig.com...]

312 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 8:55:06am
313 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 8:57:25am
314 Lidane  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 8:57:33am

re: #305 Sionainn

What the heck is a "Reagan Economic Zone"?

One of the most hilarious phrases I've read in a while. Talk about obvious pandering. ROFL.

315 iossarian  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 8:57:42am

re: #311 Daniel Ballard

I found this... *crosses fingers truthdig is run by decent people*
[Link: www.truthdig.com...]

So basically, gut regulations except for the kind of US-style IP law that prevents anyone from entering the highly profitable IT and entertainment markets (which coincidentally are dominated by US firms)?

Gee, I bet France is chomping at the bit to get in on that one.

316 erik_t  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 8:59:34am

re: #312 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

Romney is now blaming Obama for Romney's tax plan

*facepalm*

Hmm, get called out on bullshit and then make a pathetic attempt to blame someone else for your fuckup...


I don't want to speak hastily or out of turn, but I think I may be starting to identify the hint of a possible pattern.

317 Lidane  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:00:20am

re: #308 iossarian

I pity the peons voting for these guys while they literally siphon off the gains in productivity from the American workforce so they can fly their horses around the world, first-class.

The 2012 GOP:

Image: voting_republican.jpg

318 andres  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:00:51am

re: #288 Killgore Trout

A tough new Obama ad that -- surprise! -- is accurate

Hooray!

Yet another fumble for the Romney team. BTW, who's Romney team's manager? Brett Favre?

The only reason Romney is still a contender at this point is due to the SuperPACs. I can't conceive a way Romney can win this race without the help of the Citizen United-created SuperPACs.

319 Decatur Deb  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:01:09am

re: #316 erik_t

Hmm, get called out on bullshit and then make a pathetic attempt to blame someone else for your fuckup...

I don't want to speak hastily or out of turn, but I think I may be starting to identify the hint of a possible pattern.

In some leagues they have the "Designated Hittee" rule.

320 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:01:09am

The GOS is liveblogging POTUS's comments. here's what they saw at a Romney event in las vegas:

In Las Vegas, a Romney campaign event is getting under way. Romney's introducer is whining about Obama "taking money out of your pocket" to give it to people who are less fortunate. Much better to take money out of your pocket to give it to rich people like Romney. Because they deserve it.

321 jaunte  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:01:55am

re: #305 Sionainn

What the heck is a "Reagan Economic Zone"?

A tax- and regulation-free zone at least one Kilogipper in extent.

322 SpaceJesus  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:01:57am

all these new jobs are obviously the result of obama's mosque construction bubble

323 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:02:10am
324 Sionainn  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:02:27am

re: #311 Daniel Ballard

I found this... *crosses fingers truthdig is run by decent people*
[Link: www.truthdig.com...]

Thanks for finding that. I wish it delineated the "trade rules."

325 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:02:37am

John Stewart on Cock-Fil-A protest:

“What better way to stand up and say, ‘I oppose gay people’s right to get married,’ than to head down to a Chick-fil-A, grab a hold of two buttery buns, split ‘em open and gobble down some of that hot, greasy cock,” Stewart said.

326 makeitstop  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:02:55am

re: #311 Daniel Ballard

I found this... *crosses fingers truthdig is run by decent people*
[Link: www.truthdig.com...]

Wait, wait...

But we can hardly rest there, for there is an opportunity to pursue a gamechanging multilateral agreement among like-minded nations genuinely committed to the principles of open markets.

Doesn't that sound like the whole North American Union thing that wingnuts were all het up about for a while?

What's he gonna call the new currency - the Reagano?
/

327 GunstarGreen  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:03:12am

I support the Reagan Economic Zone, solely so that we can later talk about the US getting De-REZed.

328 Lidane  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:03:18am

re: #312 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

Romney is now blaming Obama for Romney's tax plan

*facepalm*

One of my uncles tried to tell me that it was Obama's fault the job market is over-saturated and that once Romney is elected, I'll have my pick of job offers. I laughed.

329 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:04:37am

Cairo asks U.S. to free last Egyptian at Guantanamo

(Reuters) - Egypt has asked the United States to free an Egyptian held at Guantanamo Bay since 2001 and who had been charged with backing terrorist groups in Afghanistan, the Foreign Ministry said on Thursday.

It was the latest move by the Muslim Brotherhood-led administration to secure freedom for Egyptians jailed for Islamist militancy at home and abroad in the few weeks since President Mohamed Mursi was sworn in.

During his campaign for the presidency, Mursi promised to work for the release of Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman, the spiritual leader of Al-Gama'a al-Islamiya who is serving a life sentence in the United States for planning attacks in New York.

...Human Rights Watch published a report in 2009 that said El Sawah had been charged with conspiracy and material support for terrorism for allegedly serving as an al Qaeda explosives expert.

LOL...What actual chance do they think they will get of releasing an al Qaeda explosives expert?

330 lawhawk  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:04:40am

re: #327 GunstarGreen

331 iossarian  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:05:30am

re: #324 Sionainn

Thanks for finding that. I wish it delineated the "trade rules."

I would put good money on it being a combination of:

- US patent/IP law
- Relaxation of regulation on banking/financial organizations
- Relaxation of foreign currency/investment regulations
- Elimination of US-unfriendly tariffs (the ones we like can stay though)

332 Gus  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:06:37am

I'm afraid to read some of this news. In other news, my usage level is getting low on ATT. Only 1.69 GB left for 15 days. 5 GB per month data limit. What a joke.

333 Sionainn  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:07:39am

re: #325 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

John Stewart on Cock-Fil-A protest:

I so miss watching the Daily Show. Had to give it up because the kids are now old enough to start asking questions as well as repeating some bits like "Son of a Bitch!"

334 GunstarGreen  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:07:42am

re: #332 Gus

I'm afraid to read some of this news. In other news, my usage level is getting low on ATT. Only 1.69 GB left for 15 days. 5 GB per month data limit. What a joke.

Smart phone data plan, or residential internet?

335 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:08:05am

POTUS is saying the GOP are raising taxes on the 98% so that the 2% can enjoy more tax cuts.

336 Lidane  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:08:06am

re: #329 NJDhockeyfan

LOL...What actual chance do they think they will get of releasing an al Qaeda explosives expert?

None. That's the point. It's a way to pander to the extremists and nothing more.

337 Gus  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:08:09am

re: #334 GunstarGreen

Smart phone data plan, or residential internet?

Smart phone. ATT Mobile.

338 Decatur Deb  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:08:37am

re: #333 Sionainn

I so miss watching the Daily Show. Had to give it up because the kids are now old enough to start asking questions as well as repeating some bits like "Son of a Bitch!"

We called those "teaching moments".

339 Gus  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:08:41am

Obdicut! You need more coffee. ;)

340 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:09:52am
341 iossarian  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:10:39am

re: #336 Lidane

None. That's the point. It's a way to pander to the extremists and nothing more.

It's amusing that the "classical liberal", "innocent until proven guilty" crowd has no problem with the Guantanamo Bay situation, though.

342 GunstarGreen  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:10:48am

re: #337 Gus

Smart phone. ATT Mobile.

Bah. One of the reasons I refuse to enter into the market on that stuff; I don't do business with companies that are openly hostile to their customers like that. Delivering data over lines is delivering data over lines, no matter what the destination is, and for the prices they charge for smartphone data plans you could get FAR better residential service with limits so high that you'd have to be a hardcore pirate to even begin to touch them.

343 erik_t  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:11:03am

re: #340 Learned Mother of Zion

Mitt retroactively changed the incentives to only focus on off-shoring outsourcing.

344 iossarian  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:11:16am

re: #339 Gus

Obdicut! You need more coffee. ;)

Keeping you out of the bottom comments here ;)

345 Gus  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:12:15am

re: #344 iossarian

Keeping you out of the bottom comments here ;)

Thanks. Just a mistake I'm sure. You know how hard it is to aim sometimes. Especially once you're past 30. //

346 Sionainn  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:12:23am

re: #338 Decatur Deb

We called those "teaching moments".

Yes on the SOB thing (which my 7-year-old then told us that we shouldn't watch the Daily Show while they are in the room because it was inappropriate for them.../facepalm). We switched to Raising Hope the next night and what did they say on that show? "Son of a Bitch!" I can't win.

As for the quote that Dreggas posted, I don't feel comfortable teaching my 5 and 7-year-old what Jon Stewart means. Ugh.

347 Obdicut  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:12:48am

re: #339 Gus

Obdicut! You need more coffee. ;)

Maybe I've just drunk the hatorade.

348 Someone Please Beam Me Up!  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:12:48am

re: #333 Sionainn

I so miss watching the Daily Show. Had to give it up because the kids are now old enough to start asking questions as well as repeating some bits like "Son of a Bitch!"

Earplugs. Or early bedtimes.

349 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:12:50am

re: #324 Sionainn

Heh. There are some holes in the plan


Sorry, this page is not available.

This page does not exist or may have moved.

350 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:12:55am

re: #336 Lidane

None. That's the point. It's a way to pander to the extremists and nothing more.

Getting an al Qaeda terrorist freed from prison? They are getting it done in Gaza.

(Reuters) - Gaza's Islamist Hamas government has freed a militant group's leader who is believed to have ties to al Qaeda and had been detained for 17 months, a source from a Jihadist Salafi group said on Friday.

Hisham Al-Saedni, also known as Abu Al-Waleed Al-Maqdissi, was freed late on Thursday, the source said. Hamas declined immediate comment.

351 Decatur Deb  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:13:22am

re: #343 erik_t

Mitt retroactively changed the incentives to only focus on off-shoring outsourcing.

Could call that "way-outsourcing", but it sounds a little beatnik.

"I have seen the finest trust funds of my generation..."

352 Gus  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:14:12am

re: #340 Learned Mother of Zion

[Embedded content]

Off shore jobs. I'm sure that's like a "trickle down" jobs creation scheme of sorts. "A corporation does goo with jobs overseas and eventually it has a beneficial value to American citizens!" Then we wait. Wait. Wait. AND wait.

353 Decatur Deb  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:14:42am

re: #346 Sionainn

Yes on the SOB thing (which my 7-year-old then told us that we shouldn't watch the Daily Show while they are in the room because it was inappropriate for them.../facepalm). We switched to Raising Hope the next night and what did they say on that show? "Son of a Bitch!" I can't win.

As for the quote that Dreggas posted, I don't feel comfortable teaching my 5 and 7-year-old what Jon Stewart means. Ugh.

Then you'll want to keep them away from the pharmaceutical commercials on the evening news.

354 Gus  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:15:06am

re: #347 Obdicut

Maybe I've just drunk the hatorade.

That can happen man! "Sudden onset of ______ derangement syndrome."

//

355 Sionainn  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:16:09am

re: #353 Decatur Deb

Then you'll want to keep them away from the pharmaceutical commercials on the evening news.

LOL, yep. My husband couldn't care less about the news, so we don't watch it. Everything we watch is Tivo'd so we can bypass the commercials.

356 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:16:42am

re: #346 Sionainn

Yes on the SOB thing (which my 7-year-old then told us that we shouldn't watch the Daily Show while they are in the room because it was inappropriate for them.../facepalm). We switched to Raising Hope the next night and what did they say on that show? "Son of a Bitch!" I can't win.

As for the quote that Dreggas posted, I don't feel comfortable teaching my 5 and 7-year-old what Jon Stewart means. Ugh.

Keep the kids off LGF. My son said to me, "Mom, I don't like it when you say 'fuck' on Little Green Footballs."

357 iossarian  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:16:44am

re: #350 NJDhockeyfan

Getting an al Qaeda terrorist freed from prison? They are getting it done in Gaza.

The story indicates that Hamas arrested him in the first place, so I guess this makes them neutral overall? Or slightly positive since they kept him off the streets for 17 months?

358 Lidane  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:17:57am

re: #350 NJDhockeyfan

Getting an al Qaeda terrorist freed from prison?

No. Asking the US to release an al Qaeda terrorist. Hell would freeze over before that happened and the Muslim Brotherhood knows it.

359 Gus  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:18:38am

re: #357 iossarian

The story indicates that Hamas arrested him in the first place, so I guess this makes them neutral overall? Or slightly positive since they kept him off the streets for 17 months?

True. Same like when we release people from Gitmo. There's always that chance. That story only said "believed" to have ties to AQ.

360 iossarian  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:19:33am

re: #359 Gus

True. Same like when we release people from Gitmo. There's always that chance. That story only said "believed" to have ties to AQ.

Of course, the "Classical Liberal" position to take in this situation is "let 'em rot, and never bring 'em to trial".

361 Gus  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:19:35am

We sure could save a lot of trouble if we just went back to the old POW system. Yeah, I know. That wouldn't meet "the nature" of this new enemy.

362 Sionainn  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:19:54am

re: #356 Learned Mother of Zion

Keep the kids off LGF. My son said to me, "Mom, I don't like it when you say 'fuck' on Little Green Footballs."

I have to be careful what pages I'm on when the older one is around. She likes to check out what I'm writing and for her age, she is a very advanced reader.

363 Gus  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:20:35am

re: #360 iossarian

Of course, the "Classical Liberal" position to take in this situation is "let 'em rot, and never bring 'em to trial".

Or! We could just send them to a POW camp and tell 'em... "we'll let you go when the war is over and as long as you didn't commit any war crimes."

364 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:20:35am

re: #357 iossarian

The story indicates that Hamas arrested him in the first place, so I guess this makes them neutral overall? Or slightly positive since they kept him off the streets for 17 months?

When you take a terrorist off the streets, especially a member of al Qaeda, you are supposed to keep them caged.

365 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:20:36am

re: #362 Sionainn

I have to be careful what pages I'm on when the older one is around. She likes to check out what I'm writing and for her age, she is a very advanced reader.

My son was 22 years old when he said that.

366 Sionainn  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:21:48am

re: #365 Learned Mother of Zion

My son was 22 years old when he said that.

LOL. That's funny.

367 iossarian  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:21:51am

re: #364 NJDhockeyfan

When you take a terrorist off the streets, especially a member of al Qaeda, you are supposed to keep them caged.

I note you didn't answer my question. Was keeping him off the streets for 17 months a good thing, a bad thing, or neutral?

The alternative would have been for him to be roaming free for the same period.

368 Decatur Deb  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:22:25am

re: #362 Sionainn

I have to be careful what pages I'm on when the older one is around. She likes to check out what I'm writing and for her age, she is a very advanced reader.

There's nothing on LGF that's not on some elementary school bathroom stall.

369 Varek Raith  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:22:54am

re: #368 Decatur Deb

There's nothing on LGF that's not on some elementary school bathroom stall.

Fuckin A!
/Fuckers.

370 Killgore Trout  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:23:26am

re: #350 NJDhockeyfan

Getting an al Qaeda terrorist freed from prison? They are getting it done in Gaza.

There's work to be done in Sinai.

371 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:24:38am

re: #367 iossarian

I note you didn't answer my question. Was keeping him off the streets for 17 months a good thing, a bad thing, or neutral?

The alternative would have been for him to be roaming free for the same period.

Taking him off the streets was absolutely a good thing. Letting him go was a bad idea. Any deaths caused by this freed terrorist will be blood on the hands of Hamas....well more blood on their hands.

372 Gus  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:25:22am
373 Varek Raith  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:25:54am

re: #372 Gus

Google: al qaeda released from gitmo

La de dah.

Blood on our hands!

374 Gus  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:26:01am

This is WAR men!

//

375 Gus  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:26:21am

re: #373 Varek Raith

Blood on our hands!

Bang! You're dead.

Wanna play cowboys and Indians?

//

376 Gus  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:26:56am

re: #373 Varek Raith

Blood on our hands!

One was a former cook.

377 sagehen  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:27:05am

re Mitt's taxes: Rachel teased at the end of last night's show that they found some awesome archival footage that will make it a much bigger story, something new and huge that'll be tonight's opening segment.

I'm excited.

378 iossarian  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:27:16am

re: #370 Killgore Trout

There's work to be done in Sinai.

What part of Classical Liberalism includes the indefinite detention of people without trial?

379 Sionainn  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:27:21am

re: #368 Decatur Deb

There's nothing on LGF that's not on some elementary school bathroom stall.

Not at my kid's school. The custodial staff is really good. Not sure if it's because it is a magnet school or not...if the kids are actually writing things on the walls and the custodial staff immediately gets rid of it or if it just isn't happening.

She's starting second grade this year. I'm sure that soon I'll be getting questions about things other kids are saying. I'm prepared for that. After being questioned intensely by my daughter on how exactly babies get in the uterus, I got over my discomfort in talking about things with her.

380 Varek Raith  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:27:54am

re: #378 iossarian

What part of Classical Liberalism includes the indefinite detention of people without trial?

Shut up, that's what.

381 Decatur Deb  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:28:15am

I'd been concerned that there was no legal concept (war, crime, etc) that makes sense in the era of international killers and cross-border drone strikes. Found one--the obsolete concept of "Outlawry".

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

(And they get wear killer threads.)

382 Gus  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:28:51am

re: #378 iossarian

What part of Classical Liberalism includes the indefinite detention of people without trial?

Hey man. The government also never makes any mistakes. Everyone in Gitmo deserves to be there for the rest of their lives.

//

383 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:29:17am

re: #372 Gus

Google: al qaeda released from gitmo

La de dah.

Yeah, that was fucked up. Many of the terrorists we let go ended up going back out and killing our troops.

384 Decatur Deb  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:29:59am

re: #379 Sionainn

Not at my kid's school. The custodial staff is really good. Not sure if it's because it is a magnet school or not...if the kids are actually writing things on the walls and the custodial staff immediately gets rid of it or if it just isn't happening.

She's starting second grade this year. I'm sure that soon I'll be getting questions about things other kids are saying. I'm prepared for that. After being questioned intensely by my daughter on how exactly babies get in the uterus, I got over my discomfort in talking about things with her.

We overinformed all ours to the point of confusion when they asked questions. Not an axe murderer in the bunch, yet.

385 Gus  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:31:05am

re: #383 NJDhockeyfan

Yeah, that was fucked up. Many of the terrorists we let go ended up going back out and killing our troops.

That's why it's better to just create a POW system instead of this legal cluster fuck that Bush created -- which of course Obama is continuing. Put 'em in a POW camp and wait until AQ surrenders.

386 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:31:09am

re: #364 NJDhockeyfan

Just like any combatant/POW. Enemy combatants all get released when the war is over. Perhaps earlier for humanitarian reasons or in a POW swap.

387 Sionainn  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:31:29am

re: #384 Decatur Deb

We overinformed all ours to the point of confusion when they asked questions. Not an axe murderer in the bunch, yet.

I'd much rather them have more information than less.

388 Varek Raith  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:31:35am

Sen. Sessions: ‘I Am Offended’ By Views Of Climate Scientists

Sessions: Madam Chairman, I am offended by that, I’m offended by that — I didn’t say anything about the scientists. I said the data shows [sic] it is not warming to the degree that a lot of people predicted, not close to that much…

Boxer: The conclusion that you’re coming to is shared by 1-2 percent of the scientists. You shouldn’t be offended by that. That’s the fact.

Sessions: I don’t believe that’s correct.

389 Decatur Deb  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:32:10am

re: #387 Sionainn

I'd much rather them have more information than less.

Precocity embarrasses. Ignorance kills.

390 Mocking Jay  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:32:32am

re: #377 sagehen

re Mitt's taxes: Rachel teased at the end of last night's show that they found some awesome archival footage that will make it a much bigger story, something new and huge that'll be tonight's opening segment.

I'm excited.

Me too! I was crushed when I heard that I'd have to wait for the next show.
:(

391 Shropshire_Slasher  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:32:41am

re: #384 Decatur Deb

That reminds me of a Monty Python skit...

392 Sionainn  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:33:35am

re: #389 Decatur Deb

Precocity embarrasses. Ignorance kills.

I like that. It's so true.

393 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:35:13am

re: #391 Tommy's cone of shame

Stan: I want to have babies.
Reg: You want to have babies?!?!
Stan: It's every man's right to have babies if he wants them.
Reg: But ... you can't HAVE babies!
Stan: Don't you oppress me!
Reg: I'm not oppressing you, Stan. You haven't got a womb! Where's the fetus gonna gestate? You gonna keep it in a box?

even better:

394 Varek Raith  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:36:30am

re: #393 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

Stan: I want to have babies.
Reg: You want to have babies?!?!
Stan: It's every man's right to have babies if he wants them.
Reg: But ... you can't HAVE babies!
Stan: Don't you oppress me!
Reg: I'm not oppressing you, Stan. You haven't got a womb! Where's the fetus gonna gestate? You gonna keep it in a box?

I'm offended by that.
Therefore, men now have wombs.
/Sessions.

395 sagehen  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:37:33am

re: #383 NJDhockeyfan

Yeah, that was fucked up. Many of the terrorists we let go ended up going back out and killing our troops.

"Many"? Bullshit. A handful. Some of whom it's questionable whether they were terrorists to start with, or only became such afterwards.

2/3 of the detainees were let go, hundreds of them, after many years, with no charges at all. Even with the very broad standards of what we were calling evidence, even with "enhanced interrogation," even allowing for hearsay, even going by trial rules that have only the vaguest similarity to what we in the civilian world call Proper Procedure... even with all of that, 2/3 of the detainees were sent home with no charges ever being brought. And not even an apology for taking years to figure out they hadn't done anything to justify locking them up in the first place.

396 Killgore Trout  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:39:03am

re: #378 iossarian

What part of Classical Liberalism includes the indefinite detention of people without trial?

I'd rather just kill him instead. Here's the group he leads...
Tawhid and Jihad

Monotheism and Jihad has engaged in kidnappings, beheadings, assassinations, and suicide bombings. The group has also utilized rocket-propelled grenades. The insurgent group has been linked to several gruesome attacks, including the beheading of U.S. contractor Nicholas Berg. Monotheism and Jihad does not limit its attacks to the United States, its military allies, and Iraqi government officials and security forces. The group has also carried out attacks on the United Nations, humanitarian organizations, and Kurdish politicians and religious figures. On October 17, 2004, Monotheism and Jihad announced their allegiance to Usama bin Laden and al-Qaeda. The group pledged to respect al-Qaeda's orders and instructions.

397 iossarian  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:39:32am

re: #396 Killgore Trout

I'd rather just kill him instead. Here's the group he leads...
Tawhid and Jihad

So you're not really a Classical Liberal after all, then.

398 Kragar  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:39:41am

Fischer Discovers Proof that Pornography is not a Victimless Crime

Recently the Pentagon’s Missile Defense Agency issued a warning to employees and contractors not to use their computers to visit pornographic websites because it was not only unprofessional and a violation of government regulations, but such websites often contain viruses and malware that could compromise the missile defense network.

And for Bryan Fischer, that was proof that pornography is not a victimless crime because "you and I could get incinerated, burned to a crisp, toasted because some guy is looking at porn instead of taking care of our missile defense system; [so] do not tell me it is a victimless crime":

Sure, blame the innocent porn for those guys goofing off.

399 iossarian  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:40:44am

re: #398 Kragar

Fischer Discovers Proof that Pornography is not a Victimless Crime

Sure, blame the innocent porn for those guys goofing off.

Next up on the crime list: Minesweeper.

400 Gus  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:40:44am

This is WAR men!

401 iossarian  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:41:02am

re: #400 Gus

This is WAR men!

You can't fight in the war room!

402 Varek Raith  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:41:16am

re: #400 Gus

This is WAR men!

B-3.

403 makeitstop  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:41:44am

re: #398 Kragar

Fischer Discovers Proof that Pornography is not a Victimless Crime

Sure, blame the innocent porn for those guys goofing off.

That is without a doubt one of the dumbest things I've ever read - and Fischer had already set the bar pretty high.

Okay, read it again. Still breathtakingly stupid.

404 Gus  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:41:49am

re: #402 Varek Raith

B-3.

You sunk my... supply boat.

:P

//

405 Varek Raith  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:42:53am

re: #404 Gus

You sunk my... supply boat.

:P

//

There goes your pron.
/I win

406 erik_t  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:42:54am

re: #396 Killgore Trout

I'd rather just kill him instead. Here's the group he leads...
Tawhid and Jihad

Before or after the trial?

407 Shropshire_Slasher  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:43:06am

Meaning of Life Sex Education:


Thank god for movies or I wouldn't have a clue.
408 Gus  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:43:17am

re: #405 Varek Raith

There goes your pron.
/I win

Damn you! Noooooooo!

409 Eventual Carrion  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:43:30am

re: #230 Daniel Ballard

Graffiti seen on a Chick Fil A franchise here in LA. Overnight someone painted a cow and "Tastes Like Hate" in big letters on the side of the restaurant. What's next, arson?

Is that the usual progression of events?

410 makeitstop  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:44:38am

re: #409 RayFerd

Is that the usual progression of events?

He missed the smashing of windows.
///

411 Gus  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:45:08am

Here I thought Reuters never gets the news right. Now we're creating imaginary AQ kill lists based on their news?

//

412 Killgore Trout  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:45:12am

re: #406 erik_t

Before or after the trial?

I think we can forgo the trial in this case. He's not entitled to Geneva convention protections or subject to US Constitutional protections. It's a safe bet he's already been added to Obama's kill list. I hope we get him soon.

413 iossarian  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:46:13am

re: #412 Killgore Trout

I think we can forgo the trial in this case.

How can you ever say that you're a "Classical Liberal" with a straight face.

What a pile of shit.

414 Gus  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:46:40am

We must stop this at THE GATES OF VIENNA!

//

415 Gus  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:47:15am

OK. This is getting a little goofy...

Looks around.

416 Varek Raith  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:47:42am

re: #415 Gus

OK. This is getting a little goofy...

Looks around.

Goofy?

417 Decatur Deb  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:48:00am

re: #412 Killgore Trout

I think we can forgo the trial in this case. He's not entitled to Geneva convention protections or subject to US Constitutional protections. It's a safe bet he's already been added to Obama's kill list. I hope we get him soon.

Declare him outlaw. If he fails to attend court to defend himself, he accepts the international reaction.

418 iossarian  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:48:42am

What happened to "I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"?

Or does that only apply to right-wing haters?

419 erik_t  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:51:05am

re: #412 Killgore Trout

I think we can forgo the trial in this case.

I don't want to live in your world.

420 Lidane  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:51:34am

re: #399 iossarian

Next up on the crime list: Minesweeper.

After that, Facebook and Twitter. And Tumblr.

421 Kragar  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:51:45am

Voter Fraud ‘Study’ Authored By Republican Who Pleaded Guilty In Abramoff Scandal

A new paper claiming that voter ID laws actual protect rather than disenfranchise minority voters is getting play in conservative circles. What isn’t being mention so much is the background of the paper’s author.

Horace Cooper, the author of the paper, told the Daily Caller this week that voter fraud “criminals — more often than not — are Democrats violating the rights of people who tend to be black or senior.”

Cooper may not have any expertise on voter fraud, but he does know a thing or two about falsifying documents. Cooper was indicted in 2009 on five public corruption charges, charged with exchanging political favors for gifts from Jack Abramoff. Cooper allegedly accepted bribes as a staffer to former Majority Leader Dick Armey, as chief of staff for Voice of America and when he worked for the Department of Labor. Cooper later pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor charge of falsifying a disclosure report and was sentenced to 36 months of probation.

422 Gus  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:51:56am
423 makeitstop  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:52:21am

This is odd. From the GQ profile of Romney:

In late February, I secure a spot on Mitt’s press bus in Michigan, setting me back a surprisingly whopping $404.80 for a mere three days of jitneying to campaign events.

Romney charges the media to ride on the press bus?

No wonder they hate him.

424 erik_t  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:53:05am

re: #423 makeitstop

This is odd. From the GQ profile of Romney:

Romney charges the media to ride on the press bus?

No wonder they hate him.

He didn't get rich by writing a lot of checks!

(cackles maniacally)

425 Decatur Deb  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:53:42am

re: #423 makeitstop

This is odd. From the GQ profile of Romney:

Romney charges the media to ride on the press bus?

No wonder they hate him.

They have real linens in the washroom.

426 Lidane  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 9:54:32am

re: #423 makeitstop

Romney charges the media to ride on the press bus?

No wonder they hate him.

They hated him before the bills started coming. Charging the media for riding on his campaign bus is just an added reason to point out that Mittens is the living embodiment of the asshole CEO that fired you while getting a big, fat bonus check for his troubles.

427 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 10:03:35am

re: #412 Killgore Trout

I think we can forgo the trial in this case. He's not entitled to Geneva convention protections or subject to US Constitutional protections. It's a safe bet he's already been added to Obama's kill list. I hope we get him soon.

Outrage!

I Would Rather Die in a Terror Attack...than live in a police state.
~ Koskid

428 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 10:09:35am

re: #409 RayFerd

Usual? Perhaps just often enough to have a modicum of concern for the store owners and employees. 'Tastes Like Hate"?! I could almost see that at Westboro Church.

There are people who do things I think are wrong. things we might all agree are wrong. But assuming that means I hate that person is simply unfair. The mans statements do not rise to that level IMO.

429 jaunte  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 10:13:59am

Reticent Romney on Michelle Bachmann's Huma Abedin islamist witch hunt:

“I’m not going to tell other people what things to talk about. Those are not things that are part of my campaign.”

430 Killgore Trout  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 10:19:05am

re: #427 NJDhockeyfan

Outrage!

I Would Rather Die in a Terror Attack...than live in a police state.
~ Koskid

lol

431 Eventual Carrion  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 10:32:40am

re: #368 Decatur Deb

There's nothing on LGF that's not on some elementary school bathroom stall.

This teepee is to peepee
not beat your tomtom

432 Obdicut  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 10:37:35am

re: #429 jaunte

Leadership!

433 Eventual Carrion  Fri, Aug 3, 2012 11:30:33am

re: #428 Daniel Ballard

Usual? Perhaps just often enough to have a modicum of concern for the store owners and employees. 'Tastes Like Hate"?! I could almost see that at Westboro Church.

There are people who do things I think are wrong. things we might all agree are wrong. But assuming that means I hate that person is simply unfair. The mans statements do not rise to that level IMO.

Westboro church is living in a fantasy land where a sky fairy is 'telling' them what to do. This CFA fuckwad is screwing with REAL people and their lives. Fuck him and the chicken he rode in on.


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 Frank says:

It began with lyrics, but even looking at the PMRC fund raising letter in the last paragraph, at the bottom of the page, it starts looking like it's branching into other areas when it says 'We realize that this material's pervaded other aspects of society' and it's like 'What, you gonna fix it all for me?'