Breaking: Shooting at Sikh Temple in Wisconsin

At least four victims reported
Crime • Views: 39,380

WKOW in Wisconsin reports: Shooting Reported at an Oak Creek Temple.

OAK CREEK (WKOW) – Police scanner reports that several people have been shot at a temple in Oak Creek Sunday morning.

Police radio reports that several people have been shot at the Sikh Temple in Oak Creek located on the 7000 block of South Howell Avenue. Oak Creek is a suburb of Milwaukee.

According to Oak Creek Patch, the incident occurred around 10:45 a.m. and initial reports said there were four victims and an active shooter. 

Oak Creek Patch reports that recent count of possible victims could be between eight and 20 people.

Authorities report the shooter may have left the area.  A witness told Oak Creek Patch that the shooter was a heavy-build white male with a bald head.  He was wearing a sleeveless T-shirt and last seen with two handguns.

There’s a live video stream in MS Silverlight format here.

UPDATE at 8/5/12 10:52:36 am
UPDATE at 8/5/12 11:01:08 am

Police spokesman says one attacker was shot by a policeman and is “down.” The police officer was also shot, but is expected to survive.

UPDATE at 8/5/12 11:10:06 am

A live video feed from WISN:

[Live feed discontinued.]

UPDATE at 8/5/12 11:13:24 am

More live updates at racineuncovered.com: Shooting at Temple in Oak Creek-Multiple Victims, Including Officer.

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348 comments
1 Obdicut  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 10:49:58am

I've seen a ton of semi-conflicting reports, some reporting lots of hostages being held, some saying there are four gunmen, others two, some one.

I hope the cops are able to bring this to a conclusion soon and no more die than already have.

2 erik_t  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 10:51:02am

(I would like to later return to Romney's latest blatant lie, but this topic does seem more urgent)

3 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 10:52:17am
4 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 10:53:17am
5 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 10:57:20am

Kudos to the news crews for not showing police positions.

6 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 10:58:03am

re: #5 Killgore Trout

Kudos to the news crews for not showing police positions.

Or, kudos to the police liason to the press for clearly explaining what was needed and getting 'er done.

7 allegro  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 10:58:16am

Between the NRA and the "diversity is evil" assholes, what can we expect? They are out of control and innocents are paying the price. WTF? We can't even go a month now without someone acting out in blind, irrational rage at good people who have never done anything to them except exist?

8 Gus  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 10:58:46am
9 Randall Gross  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 10:58:51am
10 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 10:58:53am

Dear God,

I pray for the skill of the police, I pray for the skill of the medical crews. I pray for the compassion of your mercy to those innocent and in harms way.

Amen

11 CuriousLurker  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 10:59:13am

Cops was shot (is alive) at beginning of incident according to spokesman on video now.

12 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 10:59:41am

Police spokesman says one attacker was shot by a policeman and is "down." The police officer was also shot, "expected to survive."

13 CuriousLurker  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 10:59:47am

Says one suspect was shot and is down. (good riddance)

14 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 10:59:50am

When are these going to stop?

15 CuriousLurker  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:00:39am

re: #10 LudwigVanQuixote

Dear God,

I pray for the skill of the police, I pray for the skill of the medical crews. I pray for the compassion of your mercy to those innocent and in harms way.

Amen

Seconded.

16 erik_t  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:00:39am

re: #9 Randall Gross

If I live to be a thousand, I will still never, ever see a situation in which 'go white men!' is an intelligent, thoughtful and appropriate sentiment.

Guh.

17 Gus  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:01:00am

"One attacker." I'm seeing report of multiple shooters yet unconfirmed.

18 Gus  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:01:16am
19 Randall Gross  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:01:48am

Man the ignorance displayed in that comment stream makes me sad for all of humanity.

20 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:01:52am

Live stream

The first police officer to respond was shot, but is expected to survive. That officer shot a suspect, who is visibly down and probably dead on the scene. They don't know if there are other shooters. They are searching the neighborhood and warning people to keep their doors locked.

21 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:01:58am

re: #14 HappyWarrior

When are these going to stop?

Only when our culture changes - getting rid of poverty, having decent health care & mental health care for everyone & a proper education for all are the only ways that will happen.

22 erik_t  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:02:59am

re: #14 HappyWarrior

When are these going to stop?

They'll never stop, but my god I wouldn't mind making some relatively easy societal changes to reduce the frequency.

23 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:03:08am

re: #16 erik_t

If I live to be a thousand, I will still never, ever see a situation in which 'go white men!' is an intelligent, thoughtful and appropriate sentiment.

Guh.

You would have to come up with some bizarre and unlikely scenario in which a sport required or encouraged the participants to paint themselves all one color during the duration of play.

Again, really improbable.

(Although painting yourself blue is a Celtic war thing.)

24 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:03:19am

re: #21 William Barnett-Lewis

Only when our culture changes - getting rid of poverty, having decent health care & mental health care for everyone & a proper education for all are the only ways that will happen.

Amen.

25 Randall Gross  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:03:51am

It's still ongoing - police are cautioning media not to show scenes of police movement.

26 HappyWarrior  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:03:54am

re: #21 William Barnett-Lewis

Only when our culture changes - getting rid of poverty, having decent health care & mental health care for everyone & a proper education for all are the only ways that will happen.

Hope so. So tired of hearing about these.

27 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:04:03am

re: #19 Randall Gross

Man the ignorance displayed in that comment stream makes me sad for all of humanity.

Well that is the GOP base.

28 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:04:04am

I really don't understand why we do not provide free mental health care to all Americans.

If I suffer from, say, bunions, that's my problems. Won't hurt you at all.

If I suffer from delusions and voices that tell me to do violent things, it is your problem.

29 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:04:26am

re: #16 erik_t

If I live to be a thousand, I will still never, ever see a situation in which 'go white men!' is an intelligent, thoughtful and appropriate sentiment.

Guh.

I'm settling for 'go Oak Creek cops, although cautiously and with great care!' They can be whatever color they like.

30 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:06:09am

re: #28 Mostly sane, most of the time.

I really don't understand why we do not provide free mental health care to all Americans.

If I suffer from, say, bunions, that's my problems. Won't hurt you at all.

If I suffer from delusions and voices that tell me to do violent things, it is your problem.

Mostly because GOP types can't stand the idea of giving any of their money to help heal someone else.

31 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:07:54am

If there's more than one shooter, it raises this to a whole new level. An individual maniac might do almost anything for almost any reason, 2 or more people together would require some degree of organization, mutually comprehensible motive, and common purpose.

Who are they and what do they think they are doing?

32 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:08:27am

Okay, OT while we are waiting for more news.

Our next door neighbors (young Vietnamese couple) just had their first child. My husband talked to the grandfather.

Husband mentions this because we plan on giving them a baby gift. I asked him, "Girl or boy?"

He hadn't asked.

Men.

33 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:09:54am

re: #31 Shiplord Kirel

If there's more than one shooter, it raises this to a whole new level. An individual maniac might do almost anything for almost any reason, 2 or more people together would require some degree of organization, mutually comprehensible motive, and common purpose.

Who are they and what do they think they are doing?

The possibility of multiple shooters does change things. Still unconfirmed.

34 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:10:07am

re: #31 Shiplord Kirel

If there's more than one shooter, it raises this to a whole new level. An individual maniac might do almost anything for almost any reason, 2 or more people together would require some degree of organization, mutually comprehensible motive, and common purpose.

Who are they and what do they think they are doing?

We all know what it is most likely.

35 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:10:24am

I added a live video feed above.

36 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:10:47am

re: #33 Killgore Trout

The possibility of multiple shooters does change things. Still unconfirmed.

True, but one would expect that if there were only one, and he is apparently shot, that the police would have gone in by now.

37 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:11:11am

re: #32 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Okay, OT while we are waiting for more news.

Our next door neighbors (young Vietnamese couple) just had their first child. My husband talked to the grandfather.

Husband mentions this because we plan on giving them a baby gift. I asked him, "Girl or boy?"

He hadn't asked.

Men.

You think that's bad. A couple of years ago, my husband and I were over at a friend's house, a few weeks after their first child was born. I admired the baby, who was introduced to me by the father as 'my Pumpkin', and asked, knowing that they had considered several choices, "so, what did you finally name her?"

He looked panicked, and yelled over to his wife, "Jen, what did we name the baby?"

38 Kronocide  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:12:11am

I recall after 9/11, my sister had a very close personal friend who is Sikh. That group of friends didn't let him leave his house for a week, shopping for him and running errands.

So much misunderstanding and anger, so sad.

39 rohan  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:12:18am

I would caution everyone here about jumping to conclusions. Sikhs occasionally do resolve their temple disputes with guns. It has happened 2-3 times in last 15 years here in california sikh temples.
For example, see this wiki about gun violence at sikh temple near San Francisco

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

40 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:12:19am

re: #36 LudwigVanQuixote

True, but one would expect that if there were only one, and he is apparently shot, that the police would have gone in by now.

Maybe the police don't know yet and they're being cautious.

41 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:12:19am

WKOW reports tactical teams inside the temple clearing room to room, with others combing the neighborhood. The police are said to strongly suspect multiple shooters. Unconfirmed reports of FBI hostage negotiators active at the scene.

42 CuriousLurker  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:12:30am
43 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:13:20am

Holding children hostage is despicable.

But I state what you already know.

44 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:13:30am

More live updates at Racineuncovered.com: Shooting at Temple in Oak Creek-Multiple Victims, Including Officer.

45 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:13:35am

re: #31 Shiplord Kirel

If there's more than one shooter, it raises this to a whole new level. An individual maniac might do almost anything for almost any reason, 2 or more people together would require some degree of organization, mutually comprehensible motive, and common purpose.

Who are they and what do they think they are doing?

There's a hell of a lot of neo-nazi & militia types in North-Eastern Wisconsin. Three or four groups big enough to show up on the SPLC's maps & lord knows how many others.

46 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:14:27am

The latest from The Wall Street Journal: OAK CREEK, Wis.—A Wisconsin man said he spoke to a priest at a Sikh temple outside Milwaukee and was told four people have been shot and women and children are still hiding in the building.

Authorities say there were called to the Sikh Temple of Wisconsin in the suburb of Oak Creek about 10:30 a.m. Sunday with reports of shots fired. They say they don't have details on how many people were shot or their conditions.

Sukhwindar Nagr, of Racine, said he called his brother-in-law's phone and a priest at the temple answered. Mr. Nagr said the priest told him that his brother-in-law had been shot, along with three priests.

Mr. Nagr says the priest also said women and children were hiding in closets at the temple.

A spokeswoman at Froedtert Hospital in Milwaukee said doctors there were treating two victims of the shootings on Sunday morning.

Carolyn Bellin, chief public relations officer at the hospital, said the two victims were males. One was in the surgical intensive care unit, and the other was in the operating room, she said. The hospital, which is about 13 miles from Oak Creek, is the Level 1 trauma center in the area and is equipped to treat additional victims, Ms. Bellin said. She said she was unaware whether more victims were en route.

47 allegro  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:14:33am

re: #39 rohan

I would caution everyone here about jumping to conclusions. Sikhs occasionally do resolve their temple disputes with guns. It has happened 2-3 times in last 15 years here in california sikh temples.
For example, see this wiki about gun violence at sikh temple near San Francisco

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

When have you seen a fat, bald Sikh wearing a sleeveless t-shirt?

Just sayin'...

48 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:14:54am

re: #39 rohan

I would caution everyone here about jumping to conclusions. Sikhs occasionally do resolve their temple disputes with guns. It has happened 2-3 times in last 15 years here in california sikh temples.
For example, see this wiki about gun violence at sikh temple near San Francisco

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

I did read an unconfirmed report that a visiting lecturer from India was the first person shot. Anything's possible at this point.

49 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:16:23am

re: #39 rohan

I would caution everyone here about jumping to conclusions. Sikhs occasionally do resolve their temple disputes with guns. It has happened 2-3 times in last 15 years here in california sikh temples.
For example, see this wiki about gun violence at sikh temple near San Francisco

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

True, but I think the pattern there is brawling and violence between adult faction members. Is there anything even slightly parallel to this?

This could be internal. This could have to do with some guy's wife leaving him. This could have to do with a disgruntled lawyer's client. It could be politically or religiously motivated terrorism from a number of sources.

I don't really care right now. First, we get everyone safe and out of the building, and the shooters under arrest.

50 Destro  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:18:43am

re: #31 Shiplord Kirel

If there's more than one shooter, it raises this to a whole new level. An individual maniac might do almost anything for almost any reason, 2 or more people together would require some degree of organization, mutually comprehensible motive, and common purpose.

Who are they and what do they think they are doing?

I do know last year there was Sikh inter religous fighting in a New York temple with knives and swords over some sort of religous differences so maybe that is what is happening here but CNN is not saying the gunman or men are Sikhs.

Power Struggle Led to Melee at Sikh Center in Queens

By KIRK SEMPLE

Published: April 26, 2011

A bloody melee among worshipers at a Sikh temple in Queens over the weekend was only the most public and violent episode in a roiling power struggle marked by frequent confrontations, death threats and a lawsuit, members of New York’s Sikh community said on Tuesday.

As alarming as the fight was, however, it was not unusual. Armed violence has plagued other temples, known as gurdwaras, around the world in recent years. Suketu Mehta, a journalism professor at New York University and the author of “Maximum City: Bombay Lost and Found,” said violence had “become endemic to many Sikh gurdwaras.”

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

51 CuriousLurker  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:19:28am

NBC has a feed up too now.

52 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:20:02am

One survivor who is at the hospital has told his son that there are definitely multiple shooters and the attack appeared to be systematic and well-planned.

53 b_sharp  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:20:31am

re: #52 Shiplord Kirel

One survivor who is at the hospital has told his son that there are definitely multiple shooters and the attack appeared to be systematic and well-planned.

Militia?

54 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:22:08am

re: #53 b_sharp

Militia?

If nothing else, we'll soon have an ID on the suspect who was shot. We'll know a lot more after that.

55 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:22:40am

re: #53 b_sharp

Militia?

re: #53 b_sharp

Militia?

Wouldn't surprise me. As I noted above, we have lots of those nuts in the woods of Wisconsin. Got a "township" run by a bunch of them that every election sends their homemade ballots to Madison to be ignored by the state.

56 Destro  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:23:11am

re: #44 Charles Johnson

I also posted this for cross reference:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

This could be inter Sikh faction fighting. But the reports are the gunmen wore non-sikh clothing or described as non Sikh looking. We don't know yet.

57 Randall Gross  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:24:13am

Red Cross and FBI confirmed to be on scene now.

58 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:24:18am

Aside from the normally offensive racist comments at CNN - which were made by the sorts of trolls one would expect and are as wretched as one would expect, there was this bit of FOX news fuelled nonsense that caught my eye:

Ryan
If there were 1000 mass shootings a day it still would not justify illegally taking guns away from law abiding citizens. I will never give up my guns, they exist to defend myself from left wing terrorists who I will shoot to kill if they are dumb enough to attack me.

I have never seen a more self serving comment.

Go right wing, your guns are more important than thousands of deaths every day!

And of course, there are a lot more rightwing terrorists. Religious extremists are not lefties. Neither are white militia types.

But facts like that are secondary. I am more and more starting to see evidence of that talk I heard from AAAS. This guys' ignorance isn't the issue. Facts would not penetrate him. What matters is that he thinks his guns are more important than thousands of innocents killed each day. It is always about themselves first.

59 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:26:16am

If anyone needs a little bit of levity as we wait for more news.

60 b_sharp  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:26:19am

Sikh violence against Sikh is nothing new (Air India Flight 192) but that violence has happened in the past is not much of an indicator for this tragedy given the current atmosphere in the US.

As difficult as it is, patience is needed right now.

61 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:27:00am

re: #52 Shiplord Kirel

One survivor who is at the hospital has told his son that there are definitely multiple shooters and the attack appeared to be systematic and well-planned.

The same relative, speaking to WKOW, says his father is certain there were multiple shooters and they are "of caucasion descent." Since Indian Sikhs are also caucasions, this distinction would probably mean white westerners. Another relative says his now-safe family member has reported at least 4 gunmen.

62 andres  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:28:56am

re: #52 Shiplord Kirel

One survivor who is at the hospital has told his son that there are definitely multiple shooters and the attack appeared to be systematic and well-planned.

If this is true, this is really, really bad...

63 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:29:40am

Here's MSNBC's live video feed:

MSNBC Video
64 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:31:31am

re: #61 Shiplord Kirel

The same relative, speaking to WKOW, says his father is certain there were multiple shooters and they are "of caucasion descent." Since Indian Sikhs are also caucasions, this distinction would probably mean white westerners. Another relative says his now-safe family member has reported at least 4 gunmen.

As someone pointed out above, there are a fair number of white Sikhs in the U.S., converts and children of converts, but the idea that a group of them are carrying this out together in Western clothes, and were recognized by no one strains realism.

My guess at this point would be outsiders, and with some sort of religious or political ax to grind.

Still no way to really tell.

65 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:31:45am

Hmm. MSNBC video isn't playing.

66 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:32:42am

re: #65 Charles Johnson

Hmm. MSNBC video isn't playing.

But their commercial for cascade was... Money first and all... Go MSNBC

67 CuriousLurker  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:34:14am

Police briefing coming up any moment according to WKOW Madison.

68 Randall Gross  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:35:24am
69 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:35:33am

Hope ya'll don't mind the OT. I'm just trying to keep my mind clear right now.

70 b_sharp  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:36:02am

re: #68 Randall Gross

[Embedded content]

Oh shit!

71 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:36:12am

Sikh infighting can be pretty vicious, but it isn't their style to indiscriminately shoot up a whole congregation. I can't remember them ever shooting at first responders either. I hope these reports are the confused results of the fog of events, and it will not be as bad as it now seems.

72 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:36:35am

re: #64 SanFranciscoZionist

As someone pointed out above, there are a fair number of white Sikhs in the U.S., converts and children of converts, but the idea that a group of them are carrying this out together in Western clothes, and were recognized by no one strains realism.

My guess at this point would be outsiders, and with some sort of religious or political ax to grind.

Still no way to really tell.

One of the things that makes me wonder is it does seem that "clerics" were attacked first. In general the clerics don't dress or otherwise appear physically different from the rest of the congregation. Some redneck mistaking them for Muslims probably wouldn't be able to pick out the clergy by sight.

73 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:37:28am

re: #68 Randall Gross

[Embedded content]

Damn, what a day.

74 erik_t  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:38:02am

re: #72 Killgore Trout

One of the things that makes me wonder is it does seem that "clerics" were attacked first. In general the clerics don't dress or otherwise appear physically different from the rest of the congregation. Some redneck mistaking them for Muslims probably wouldn't be able to pick out the clergy by sight.

I thought the shooting occurred during a worship service. I don't know what a Sikh service is like, but I assume the clergy are prominently located.

75 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:38:05am

re: #72 Killgore Trout

One of the things that makes me wonder is it does seem that "clerics" were attacked first. In general the clerics don't dress or otherwise appear physically different from the rest of the congregation. Some redneck mistaking them for Muslims probably wouldn't be able to pick out the clergy by sight.

except they would be up front leading services and all.

76 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:38:08am

re: #72 Killgore Trout

One of the things that makes me wonder is it does seem that "clerics" were attacked first. In general the clerics don't dress or otherwise appear physically different from the rest of the congregation. Some redneck mistaking them for Muslims probably wouldn't be able to pick out the clergy by sight.

I've never been to a gurdwara. Would they have been standing, or otherwise visibly leading the service?

77 CuriousLurker  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:38:10am

re: #73 Killgore Trout

Damn, what a day.

Sometimes it feels like the whole world's going to hell in a hand-basket.

78 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:39:15am

Dozens of rockets, mortar shells explode near Gaza, southern Israel

Residents of Kibbutz Kerem Shalom told to stay in their homes; earlier on Sunday, An IAF craft targeted a motorcycle travelling in the Gaza city of Rafah on Sunday, killing one militant and wounding another.

79 b_sharp  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:39:24am

re: #77 CuriousLurker

Sometimes it feels like the whole world's going to hell in a hand-basket.

Seems to me the world's going to hell in a casket.

80 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:40:14am

re: #78 Killgore Trout

Dozens of rockets, mortar shells explode near Gaza, southern Israel

It's been a rough morning all around the world.

81 jaunte  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:40:41am

A Guide to Mass Shootings in America

82 CuriousLurker  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:41:15am

Hospital confirms 3 victims being treated.

83 b_sharp  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:42:58am

re: #81 jaunte

A Guide to Mass Shootings in America

You have an extra 'http' bit on the end of your URL.

84 jaunte  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:44:03am

re: #83 b_sharp

Thanks, I think it's fixed now.

85 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:44:37am

re: #77 CuriousLurker

Sometimes it feels like the whole world's going to hell in a hand-basket.

Hand-baskets were for the 19th century.

We're going to hell on a zipline.

86 allegro  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:44:38am

Police chief doing a press conference now.

87 Randall Gross  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:45:27am
88 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:46:40am

Police chief has a shitty cell phone. Possibly one gun man.

89 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:46:58am

Fuck

90 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:46:59am

re: #87 Randall Gross

[Embedded content]

Probably not from factional Sikhs or a disgruntled ex-husband.

If that's accurate, this starts to narrow down.

91 Randall Gross  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:47:08am

I"m keeping my fingers crossed that it's just the one shooter.

92 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:47:23am

re: #91 Randall Gross

I"m keeping my fingers crossed that it's just the one shooter.

That would be nice.

93 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:47:25am

Right now they have only one gunman. Not sure if there are more, but it sounds like there may not be.

94 Romantic Heretic  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:47:34am

re: #55 William Barnett-Lewis

re: #53 b_sharp

Wouldn't surprise me. As I noted above, we have lots of those nuts in the woods of Wisconsin. Got a "township" run by a bunch of them that every election sends their homemade ballots to Madison to be ignored by the state.

This will sound weird, but thanks for that info.

I'm working on a story with my vampire couple. They're doing a trip around the U.S. in an RV. Mobile protection from the sun.

They're going to end up in a place like this. Since he's French (from Lorraine actually when it was a separate country) and she's obviously attached to him the militia decide they're going to do a 'Most Dangerous Game' on the 'foreigner' and the 'traitor'.

I almost feel sorry for the militia.

I wondered if the idea, once you take the vampires out of it, was too out there. Now I realize it isn't.

Thanks again.

95 CuriousLurker  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:47:36am

Cop that engaged shooter was 20-year vet, in surgery right now. Shooter he engaged down & presumed deceased. One of the injured at hospital is the cop.

4 deceased inside temple, 3 deceased outside (1 is shooter).

Concern about multiple gunmen, but none identified.

96 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:47:38am

re: #92 SanFranciscoZionist

That would be nice.

To the extent that anything can be nice at this point.

97 Randall Gross  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:47:43am

re: #90 SanFranciscoZionist

Even if it's accurate, it could be just precautionary.

98 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:48:17am

Four people dead in the temple, three dead outside including the gunman.

99 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:48:56am

re: #97 Randall Gross

Even if it's accurate, it could be just precautionary.

True. But it suggests what the cops are thinking at this point, given that they're probably not telling everyone everything.

100 Randall Gross  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:49:29am

re: #99 SanFranciscoZionist

I think it's a smart move.

101 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:50:43am

I should know better by now but I just had to check out the fever swamp's take on this. They are betting on Muslim perps, with one ingenious kook suggesting "angry homosexuals" as an alternative.

102 allegro  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:51:02am

The police chief said they have made multiple interior inspections... one wonders why the Sikhs still in there have not come out, as far as I can see from the news onsite.

103 CuriousLurker  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:51:29am

Okay, break time. The tension is getting to me and I can't even smoke a cig. Gah.

104 CuriousLurker  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:51:49am

re: #102 allegro

He police chief said they have made multiple interior inspections... one wonders why the Sikhs still in there have not come out, as far as I can see from the news onsite.

Scared to death prolly.

105 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:52:42am

this. just. sucks.

106 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:52:45am

re: #103 CuriousLurker

Okay, break time. The tension is getting to me and I can't even smoke a cig. Gah.

Ice cream... seriously... ice cream...

AND a cig.

I hate this shit.

107 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:52:47am

re: #101 Shiplord Kirel

I should know better by now but I just had to check out the fever swamp's take on this. They are betting on Muslim perps, with one ingenious kook suggesting "angry homosexuals" as an alternative.

Okay, yes, this has Muslim-Sikh violence happens a lot between Pakistan and India, but do they have a reason that it spilled into the US? Has this ever happened before?

108 allegro  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:52:48am

re: #104 CuriousLurker

Scared to death prolly.

No doubt! But one would think they would want to get the heck outa there as soon as they could.

109 CuriousLurker  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:53:20am

re: #107 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Okay, yes, this has Muslim-Sikh violence happens a lot between Pakistan and India, but do they have a reason that it spilled into the US? Has this ever happened before?

Not that I know of.

110 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:53:53am

re: #94 Romantic Heretic

This will sound weird, but thanks for that info.

I'm working on a story with my vampire couple. They're doing a trip around the U.S. in an RV. Mobile protection from the sun.

They're going to end up in a place like this. Since he's French (from Lorraine actually when it was a separate country) and she's obviously attached to him the militia decide they're going to do a 'Most Dangerous Game' on the 'foreigner' and the 'traitor'.

I almost feel sorry for the militia.

I wondered if the idea, once you take the vampires out of it, was too out there. Now I realize it isn't.

Thanks again.

Interesting concept actually.

You might want to look up info on the Posse Comitatus here in Wisconsin for more info as that group is where most of these started out. Those folks are nuttier than squirrel poo.

111 CuriousLurker  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:53:59am

re: #106 LudwigVanQuixote

Ice cream... seriously... ice cream...

AND a cig.

I hate this shit.

Ramadan. Can't. *sniffle*

112 b_sharp  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:54:38am

re: #101 Shiplord Kirel

I should know better by now but I just had to check out the fever swamp's take on this. They are betting on Muslim perps, with one ingenious kook suggesting "angry homosexuals" as an alternative.

Oh, fer fuck sakes.
Do these people ever use their brains for something more than watching reality TV and keeping their ears apart?

113 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:55:13am

re: #111 CuriousLurker

Ramadan. Can't. *sniffle*

Sorry...

Ramadan Mubarik

(Did I get that right?)

114 CuriousLurker  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:55:21am

re: #108 allegro

No doubt! But one would think they would want to get the heck outa there as soon as they could.

Indeed. No telling how people will react though. I'd wanna be damned sure it was really police and not shooters trying to trick me into coming out.

115 CuriousLurker  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:55:50am

re: #113 LudwigVanQuixote

Sorry...

Ramadan Mubarik

(Did I get that right?)

Yep, you did. Thanks, ;)

116 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:57:48am

Report: 15 Egyptian soldiers killed in ambush near Rafah crossing

The Al Arabiya news site has reported that some 15 Egyptian soldiers have been killed in an ambush by unknown gunmen the Rafah crossing.

The gunmen were driving four-wheeled off road vehicles when they attacked the troops, witnesses said.

They took control of two Egyptian armored vehicles, and exploded one of them.They carried out the attack at Iftar time, when soldiers were busy breaking their Ramadan fast.(Ynet)

117 Gus  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 11:59:40am

Seven dead including the shooter.

118 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 12:00:36pm

re: #101 Shiplord Kirel

I should know better by now but I just had to check out the fever swamp's take on this. They are betting on Muslim perps, with one ingenious kook suggesting "angry homosexuals" as an alternative.

I'd already seen the Muslim speculation going on. What do they think gay folks have against Sikhs?

119 Randall Gross  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 12:00:52pm

Regarding the Greenville police guarding a mosque there, I just recalled that JBS HQ is just South of there in Appleton.

120 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 12:01:10pm

re: #102 allegro

The police chief said they have made multiple interior inspections... one wonders why the Sikhs still in there have not come out, as far as I can see from the news onsite.

Are they able to make contact? Are they sure no one else is still in there?

121 Sheila Broflovski  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 12:01:29pm

re: #106 LudwigVanQuixote

Ice cream... seriously... ice cream...

AND a cig.

I hate this shit.

Ice cream, and a beer.

122 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 12:01:51pm

re: #107 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Okay, yes, this has Muslim-Sikh violence happens a lot between Pakistan and India, but do they have a reason that it spilled into the US? Has this ever happened before?

Well, given that it's the Freepers, the reason is quite simple: everything is Muslims' fault until proven otherwise, and even then they aren't sure.

123 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 12:03:31pm

re: #121 Learned Mother of Zion

Ice cream, and a beer.

I don't think you're really helping CL out here. I mean, why not ice cream, a double shot of whisky and a fortifying ham sandwich?

//Definition of the most trayf trayf: Clam stuffed veal with hollandaise sauce, ordered, paid for, and wolfed down on Yom Kippur.

124 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 12:04:05pm
125 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 12:05:02pm

WTF?? Who shoots Sikhs? I mean seriously, they're very peaceful and respectful. This is awful news.

126 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 12:05:17pm

re: #109 CuriousLurker

Not that I know of.

I would guess that it's more political than religious, even over there.

127 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 12:06:20pm

re: #111 CuriousLurker

Ramadan. Can't. *sniffle*

Oh hey, then, we can be fasting buddies today. The first Sunday of every month is fast Sunday.

I have to go now, but I feel your pain.

128 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 12:07:04pm

re: #121 Learned Mother of Zion

Ice cream, and a beer.

I actually have a lunch date today for ice cream at Fenton's. I'm going to ramp up the ice cream pie I was going to get and go wild for an ice cream meal.

This news is really bothering me.

129 Robert O.  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 12:08:26pm

The NRA has won another medal in Civilian Shooting. They already have a Gold from Colorado. This will be their Silver.

130 Randall Gross  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 12:08:38pm

Just a reminder that US grown watermelon is in season now, and you should be able to find plenty that are perfectly ripe if you are tired of those bland Mexican grown hybrids.

131 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 12:11:52pm

re: #112 b_sharp

Oh, fer fuck sakes.
Do these people ever use their brains for something more than watching reality TV and keeping their ears apart?

They are wingnuts. They don't have functioning brains. Truly, why not call delusional, terrified, insecure, stupid, and clearly incapable of synthesising reality, reasoning clearly or evaluating facts what it is.

They are mentally ill. They have defective minds.

132 Destro  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 12:13:53pm

re: #64 SanFranciscoZionist

As someone pointed out above, there are a fair number of white Sikhs in the U.S., converts and children of converts, but the idea that a group of them are carrying this out together in Western clothes, and were recognized by no one strains realism.

My guess at this point would be outsiders, and with some sort of religious or political ax to grind.

Still no way to really tell.

The Sikh temple violence in New York was between a faction that was allowing conversions into it vs those that wanted to keep it ethnic Indian Sikhs only. Again, I am not saying this is the case in this incident but that could explain the 'non Sikh looking gunmen'. Then again I also remember after 9/11 Sikhs were targeted by idiots who thought they were 'turban headed Muslims'.

133 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 12:14:38pm

re: #130 Randall Gross

Just a reminder that US grown watermelon is in season now, and you should be able to find plenty that are perfectly ripe if you are tired of those bland Mexican grown hybrids.

I stopped by my local halal market the other day. I picked up some lamb shanks and dates. I asked the girl behind the counter what special treats I should pick up. She recommended watermellon, Halloumi cheese and some kind of spiced pumpkin seeds. I think it's a Lebanese thing. Surprisingly delicious.

134 Tigger2005  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 12:18:55pm

Eclectic, if a white supremacist organization carried out this attack, they probably thought the Sikh temple was a Muslim mosque. All those turbaned people are the same to them.

135 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 12:20:05pm

update: Report: Gunmen who killed Egyptian soldiers fired at Israeli border

The gunmen, who reportedly took control of two Egyptian armored vehicles, blew one of them up and killed 15 Egyptian soldiers fired shells toward Israeli forces stationed at the border.

According to al-Arabiya network, the gunmen, who are affiliated with the global jihadist movement which has become increasingly active in Sinai, drove a four-wheel-drive vehicle when they attacked the troops.

136 CuriousLurker  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 12:20:46pm

re: #133 Killgore Trout

I stopped by my local halal market the other day. I picked up some lamb shanks and dates. I asked the girl behind the counter what special treats I should pick up. She recommended watermellon, Halloumi cheese and some kind of spiced pumpkin seeds. I think it's a Lebanese thing. Surprisingly delicious.

What, no cookies? ZOMG, you're going to eat halal meat?? You're doomed, doomed I tell you. Don't be surprised if you start getting the urge to... //

137 AK-47%  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 12:21:52pm

re: #134 Tigger2005

Eclectic, if a white supremacist organization carried out this attack, they probably thought the Sikh temple was a Muslim mosque. All those turbaned people are the same to them.

Will wait for confirmation from official sources before commenting, but that is pretty much what I suspect at this point...

138 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 12:22:32pm

NO FUCKING COMMENT

139 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 12:23:19pm

re: #136 CuriousLurker

What, no cookies? ZOMG, you're going to eat halal meat?? You're doomed, doomed I tell you. Don't be surprised if you start getting the urge to... //

.....Allahu lambshankbar!

140 SpaceJesus  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 12:24:13pm

What the hell have Sikhs ever done to piss people off?

141 Amory Blaine  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 12:24:22pm

This foul state is heading straight to hell. Our bigots are so fucking stupid they don't even know who they hate.

142 Kragar  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 12:26:10pm

re: #140 SpaceJesus

What the hell have Sikhs ever done to piss people off?

They look like people who moronic bigots imagine people they hate look like.

143 AK-47%  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 12:26:13pm

re: #140 SpaceJesus

What the hell have Sikhs ever done to piss people off?

Looking like Muslims?

144 SpaceJesus  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 12:27:22pm

re: #142 Kragar

re: #143 Expand Your Ground

That's my best guess right now.

145 allegro  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 12:30:25pm

I don't think I've ever seen a Muslim in a turban. I see some men wearing a stocking-cap kind of head covering (I don't know what they're called) but never a turban. The only men I see in turbans here are Sikhs, AFAIK.

146 CuriousLurker  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 12:31:00pm

I'll feel extra bad if someone did this because they thought the Sikhs were Muslims, but the murder of innocent people is a horrible tragedy regardless of the reason they were killed. NO innocent person deserves to have their life taken from them, regardless of race, religion, or political persuasion.

147 Randall Gross  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 12:33:05pm

Great post about the Murfreesboro Mosque situation over at TAM, recommended reading:

[Link: theamericanmuslim.org...]

148 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 12:33:42pm

Not sure if this is a separate attack from the shooting attack earlier....
BREAKING: 11 Egyptian soldiers killed at the Israel border

At least 11 Egyptian soldiers were killed after a car bomb went off at military zone located at the borders with Gaza on Sunday, near the city of Rafah, according to Ahram Online Arabic portal.

The number of injured has not been determined yet.

149 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 12:33:44pm

re: #140 SpaceJesus

What the hell have Sikhs ever done to piss people off?

I'll venture a guess and say the turban. The fucking turban.

Ignorant America.

150 CuriousLurker  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 12:33:47pm

re: #145 allegro

I don't think I've ever seen a Muslim in a turban. I see some men wearing a stocking-cap kind of head covering (I don't know what they're called) but never a turban. The only men I see in turbans here are Sikhs, AFAIK.

The stocking cap with the knot at the top is Sikhs. The only Muslim you're likely to see with a turban is maybe an imam/sheikh (usually from overseas). Even then, it's rare.

151 Randall Gross  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 12:34:34pm

re: #140 SpaceJesus

Well there was that short lived ceremonial knives in school thing, but that's long over.

152 allegro  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 12:35:14pm

re: #150 CuriousLurker

The stocking cap with the knot at the top is Sikhs. The only Muslim you're likely to see with a turban is maybe an imam/sheikh (usually from overseas). Even then, it's rare.

Thanks, that's what I thought. I have never associated turbans with Muslims but I'm not educated enough in the subject to know for sure.

153 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 12:35:29pm

re: #145 allegro

I don't think I've ever seen a Muslim in a turban. I see some men wearing a stocking-cap kind of head covering (I don't know what they're called) but never a turban. The only men I see in turbans here are Sikhs, AFAIK.

Some idiot will shoot a Rastafarian soon enough.

I am so sad.

154 erik_t  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 12:35:57pm

re: #151 Randall Gross

Well there was that short lived ceremonial knives in school thing, but that's long over.

At risk of excessive and inappropriate levity, it's a wonder there aren't more ten-year-old boys converting to Sikhism.

You mean I get/have to carry a big knife ALL THE TIME!?

155 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 12:36:13pm

re: #145 allegro

I don't think I've ever seen a Muslim in a turban. I see some men wearing a stocking-cap kind of head covering (I don't know what they're called) but never a turban. The only men I see in turbans here are Sikhs, AFAIK.

Iranians and some Turkish Muslims wear turbans. I think Afghans too.

156 Lidane  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 12:36:50pm

re: #140 SpaceJesus

What the hell have Sikhs ever done to piss people off?

They look just like them Ay-rabs who worship that Islam fella.

///

157 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 12:38:22pm

Jim Hoft is now frantically searching for evidence that the shooter was a registered Democrat.

158 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 12:38:38pm
159 allegro  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 12:40:22pm

re: #157 Charles Johnson

Jim Hoft is now frantically searching for evidence that the shooter was a registered Democrat.

Yeah, because Democrats are constantly braying about the evils of multiculturalism and the brown hoards invading our precious, lily-while, Christian country.

//

160 Lidane  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 12:43:15pm

re: #159 allegro

Yeah, because Democrats are constantly braying about the evils of multiculturalism and the brown hoards invading our precious, lily-while, Christian country.

//

It's a lefty false flag operation so Obama will take mah gunz!

/Freep

161 b_sharp  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 12:43:18pm

re: #124 Stanley Sea

[Embedded content]

The thoughts and prayers are to help console the survivors. It's not the time to say anything more.

162 Achilles Tang  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 12:43:23pm

re: #155 Killgore Trout

Iranians and some Turkish Muslims wear turbans. I think Afghans too.

But all different. Certain types wear baseball caps backwards sideways and other styles too.

163 MittDoesNotCompute  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 12:43:57pm

re: #145 allegro

I don't think I've ever seen a Muslim in a turban. I see some men wearing a stocking-cap kind of head covering (I don't know what they're called) but never a turban. The only men I see in turbans here are Sikhs, AFAIK.

Didn't OBL rock a turban or turban-like headcovering in more than a couple of his "Hey, I'm still alive" tapes?

164 CuriousLurker  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 12:44:03pm

re: #155 Killgore Trout

Iranians and some Turkish Muslims wear turbans. I think Afghans too.

Not generally walking around the street, except maybe some big shot imams/sheikhs. In almost 15 years living in & around NY/NJ I can count the Muslim turbans I've seen without taking off my socks.

Okay, there are some loony American Muslims that you see wearing them sometimes, and there's also a cult where the guys wear turbans and fancy uniforms, but I can't remember what they're called...some strange mixture of Cristian & Judaism, IIRC. There's lots of weird stuff up here.

165 calochortus  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 12:45:08pm

Just a couple days ago I was listening to an NPR story about Punjabis living in Kerman, CA (near Fresno.) It's an agricultural area with lots of Hispanics, who by and large are getting along fine with their new neighbors. They have started teaching Punjabi as an elective in one of the schools, and had a comment from a Hispanic girl who was taking Punjabi as her foreign language so she could talk to her friends in their native language, and then her parents wouldn't understand what they said. It made me smile-and it's one of the things I love about California. I love seeing the Hispanic workmen at the Italian owned grocery store getting their sushi for lunch. I love having an Afghan restaurant next door to a Chinese place.
It is so sad that other people can't always enjoy the diversity that makes life richer.

166 calochortus  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 12:45:52pm

re: #160 Lidane

/Freep

Sadly, I have seen that almost word for word (though without the purple) at FR

167 Obdicut  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 12:47:27pm

I really hope there was only one gunman, because that's all that the police have accounted for.

I could not fucking bear for people to get away with this.

168 Lidane  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 12:47:30pm

re: #166 calochortus

Sadly, I have seen that almost word for word (though without the purple) at FR

Of course you have. Those morons only have a single thought process -- every shooting, every violent act, every big event like this is just a liberal plot to kill the Second Amendment.

They're idiots.

170 b_sharp  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 12:47:33pm

re: #153 Stanley Sea

Some idiot will shoot a Rastafarian soon enough.

I am so sad.

For smoking too much ganja.

171 Achilles Tang  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 12:48:16pm

re: #165 calochortus

and had a comment from a Hispanic girl who was taking Punjabi as her foreign language so she could talk to her friends in their native language, and then her parents wouldn't understand what they said.

My daughters learned sign language for a while, I think for that reason.

172 Achilles Tang  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 12:48:38pm

re: #170 b_sharp

For smoking too much ganja.

Which one smoking too much?

173 calochortus  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 12:48:50pm

re: #168 Lidane

Of course you have. Those morons only have a single thought process -- every shooting, every violent act, every big event like this is just a liberal plot to kill the Second Amendment.

They're idiots.

No, no. They also went through Muslim, homosexual, Hindu, and insane. Everything but xenophobe.

174 RadicalModerate  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 12:49:55pm

In related news, Mitt Romney has a new campaign ad out, and is still blowing the dogwhistle as hard as he can.

Youtube Video
175 MittDoesNotCompute  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 12:50:20pm

re: #159 allegro

Yeah, because Democrats are constantly braying about the evils of multiculturalism and the brown hoards invading our precious, lily-while, Christian country.

//

While sapping and impurifying all of our precious bodily fluids with fluoride.

They've been hitting the PGA and rainwater cocktails too hard...

176 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 12:50:27pm
177 calochortus  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 12:50:38pm

re: #171 Achilles Tang

My daughters learned sign language for a while, I think for that reason.

Always a good way to encourage education. Present it as a way to get around one's parents.

178 erik_t  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 12:51:42pm

re: #176 Charles Johnson

Well, those are obviously the only two possibilities.

Derp.

179 Lidane  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 12:52:01pm

re: #176 Charles Johnson

Yet again, Dim Hoft proves he's the dumbest man on the internet.

Maybe we should take up an LGF collection and get him a crash helmet. He clearly needs something to help him get through the day without hurting himself.

180 MittDoesNotCompute  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 12:52:41pm

re: #176 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

That douchebag, as well as Dim Jim and the rest of the DERP Army, can just get fucked...

181 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 12:53:32pm

That's from a commenter, not Hoft himself.

182 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 12:53:50pm

re: #176 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Youtube Video
183 Obdicut  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 12:54:36pm

re: #179 Lidane

That was a commentor on his site, not the dim bulb himself.

184 MittDoesNotCompute  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 12:55:34pm

re: #181 Charles Johnson

That's from a commenter, not Hoft himself.

Duly noted and edited for effect.

185 Lidane  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 12:56:13pm

re: #183 Obdicut

That was a commentor on his site, not the dim bulb himself.

Fair enough. But there's going to be a time when Dim says something that stupid on his own, so maybe the crash helmet is a good idea either way.

186 RadicalModerate  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 12:58:26pm

re: #176 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Given that according to these people, EVERY attack by a far-right extremist is either done by Muslims or is a false-flag operation (see their theories about the Oklahoma City bombing, Anders Breivik, Jared Loughner, etc), this is ingrained into their mindsets.

All the while they are clutching to their guns and copies of The Turner Diaries, while tuned in to Alex Jones and FoxNews.

187 Obdicut  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 1:02:49pm

And I just heard the first news commentator say "They aren't even Muslim." As if this would make sense if Sikhs were Muslim.

188 Achilles Tang  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 1:03:22pm

re: #181 Charles Johnson

That's from a commenter, not Hoft himself.

Yes, but did he have anything to say to the commenter other than wink?

189 Lidane  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 1:04:05pm

re: #187 Obdicut

And I just heard the first news commentator say "They aren't even Muslim." As if this would make sense if Sikhs were Muslim.

Well, duh. Everyone expects gunmen to go rampaging into mosques and shooting Muslims. You know, because we have a history of it happening here. Or something.

Let me guess-- Fox News?

190 MittDoesNotCompute  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 1:04:46pm

re: #189 Lidane

Well, duh. Everyone expects gunmen to go rampaging into mosques and shooting Muslims. You know, because we have a history of it happening here. Or something.

Let me guess-- Fox News?

Or a local Fox affiliate...

191 Randall Gross  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 1:05:19pm

Meanwhile in TN -- Mosque just one step away from occupancy

[Link: www.dnj.com...]

192 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 1:07:07pm

I truly hope people understand the good intent which this link is meant. This is a stress reliever that brings a smile to my face.

[Link: www.nooooooooooooooo.com...]

Click the link and push the button.

193 RadicalModerate  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 1:09:54pm

re: #189 Lidane

Well, duh. Everyone expects gunmen to go rampaging into mosques and shooting Muslims. You know, because we have a history of it happening here. Or something.

Let me guess-- Fox News?

Actually it was CNN, during an interview with an Atlanta Sikh organization's PR Director. I was watching the same interview, where they were somehow dovetailing the aftermath of the 9/11 attacks into this shooting.

194 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 1:10:36pm

re: #192 LudwigVanQuixote

I truly hope people understand the good intent which this link is meant with. This is a stress reliever that brings a smile to my face.

[Link: www.nooooooooooooooo.com...]

Click the link and push the button.

I almost didn't. Been Rick-Rolled enough thank you very much...

195 Obdicut  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 1:12:03pm

re: #193 RadicalModerate

Yeah, it was kind of a clumsy attempt to explain that there's a history of idiots attacking Sikhs because they think that they're Muslim, but, like McCain's "No no, he's a good man", there were some bad implications.

196 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 1:12:18pm

Update: IAF thwarts terror attack at Egypt border

Arab media outlets say armed gunmen from global jihadist movement attacked Egyptian soldiers in north Sinai; hijacked armored vehicle and infiltrated into Israel. IAF hit target; no Israeli casualties reported
...
The gunmen reportedly took control of two Egyptian armored vehicles using RPG missiles and explosives. One of the vehicles blew up near the Kerem Shalom border crossing, while the other one managed to infiltrate into Israel. The gunmen fired tank shells toward Israeli forces stationed at the border, but IAF aircraft managed to hit the armored vehicle.

197 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 1:12:43pm

re: #131 LudwigVanQuixote

They are wingnuts. They don't have functioning brains. Truly, why not call delusional, terrified, insecure, stupid, and clearly incapable of synthesising reality, reasoning clearly or evaluating facts what it is.

They are mentally ill. They have defective minds.

I am starting to believe this more and more regarding wingnuts and their whole ilk.

They are seriously demented.

198 MittDoesNotCompute  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 1:13:20pm

re: #193 RadicalModerate

Actually it was CNN, during an interview with an Atlanta Sikh organization's PR Director. I was watching the same interview, where they were somehow dovetailing the aftermath of the 9/11 attacks into this shooting.

That makes some sense, considering that, IIRC, some Sikhs were getting abuse and threats from ignorant Americans right after 9/11, because people thought they were Muslim.

199 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 1:14:07pm

re: #197 Eclectic Infidel

I am starting to believe this more and more regarding wingnuts and their whole ilk.

They are seriously demented.

I think this was true from the start. Kind liberal tendencies made us squeamish to say it. But the data is pretty compelling.

200 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 1:15:31pm

re: #198 TedStriker

That makes some sense, considering that, IIRC, some Sikhs were getting abuse and threats from ignorant Americans right after 9/11, because people thought they were Muslim.

One was murdered. [Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

201 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 1:17:07pm

re: #150 CuriousLurker

The stocking cap with the knot at the top is Sikhs. The only Muslim you're likely to see with a turban is maybe an imam/sheikh (usually from overseas). Even then, it's rare.

Some of the Sephardi rabbis wear a sort of turban-like arrangement.

I think the association of Muslims and turbans in the Western mind is based on pictures of the Ottomans, even though Turks these days don't wear 'em much.

202 CuriousLurker  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 1:17:08pm

re: #187 Obdicut

And I just heard the first news commentator say "They aren't even Muslim." As if this would make sense if Sikhs were Muslim.

One of the reasons the fear mongering bothers me so much is because of exactly things like this (if it does turn out to be bigotry)—the haters don't tend to be capable of distinguishing between various ethnicities/religions, so not only does it put Muslims at risk, it also puts Sikhs and even Orthodox Christians at risk.

I'm fairly certain they they could also easily mistake a olive-skinned Mizrahi or Sephardi Jews with a beards & kippahs for Muslims. Not ot mention the fact that increased xenophobia can stir up anti-Semitism as well.

203 CuriousLurker  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 1:18:01pm

re: #201 SanFranciscoZionist

Some of the Sephardi rabbis wear a sort of turban-like arrangement.

I think the association of Muslims and turbans in the Western mind is based on pictures of the Ottomans, even though Turks these days don't wear 'em much.

That's right—I forgot all about them.

204 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 1:18:48pm

re: #163 TedStriker

Didn't OBL rock a turban or turban-like headcovering in more than a couple of his "Hey, I'm still alive" tapes?

Sort of a one. I know what you mean. That white headwrap. It's turban-like, though it doesn't look like the ones Sikh men wear. I don't know what the requirements are for something to actually be a turban.

205 MittDoesNotCompute  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 1:18:49pm

re: #197 Eclectic Infidel

I am starting to believe this more and more regarding wingnuts and their whole ilk.

They are seriously demented.

re: #199 LudwigVanQuixote

I think this was true from the start. Kind liberal tendencies made us squeamish to say it. But the data is pretty compelling.

For most wingnuts, calling them "mentally ill" is letting them off easy and is an insult to those who truly are mentally ill.

Most of them are willfully ignorant, set in their ways, and follow a twisted, atavistic moral code.

206 calochortus  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 1:25:02pm

re: #205 TedStriker

re: #199 LudwigVanQuixote

For most wingnuts, calling them "mentally ill" is letting them off easy and is an insult to those who truly are mentally ill.

Most of them are willfully ignorant, set in their ways, and follow a twisted, atavistic moral code.

I think you could add that they are somewhat isolated, fearful, and don't feel they get the respect they deserve. That last item might be compounded by the fear that they can't really compete on a level playing field.
I suspect it is a normal human behavior, not mental illness for the most part even if it isn't exactly a flattering description of the human animal.

207 Achilles Tang  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 1:31:14pm

re: #197 Eclectic Infidel

I am starting to believe this more and more regarding wingnuts and their whole ilk.

They are seriously demented.

I've been trolling at WND. It has been an eye opener even after many references at LGF over time. There are so many more angry and ignorant people out there, and they quite obviously reference the GOP and places like Fox for their justifications. I'm starting to think that the GOP has become the same sort of populist, lowest common denominator, party that we see in places like Venezuela.

208 engineer cat  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 1:31:24pm

cnn struggling to give a description of sikhism, but not really succeeding

from wikipedia:

Sikhism is a panentheistic religion founded during the 15th century in the Punjab region, by Guru Nanak Dev and continued to progress with ten successive Sikh gurus (the last teaching being the holy scripture Gurū Granth Sāhib Ji). It is the fifth-largest organized religion in the world, with over 30 million Sikhs and one of the most steadily growing. This system of religious philosophy and expression has been traditionally known as the Gurmat (literally 'wisdom of the Gurū'). Punjab of India is the only region in the world with a majority Sikh population.

Sikhs are expected to embody the qualities of a "Sant-Sipāhī"—a saint-soldier. One must have control over one's internal vices and be able to be constantly immersed in virtues clarified in the Guru Granth Sahib. A Sikh must also have the courage to defend the rights of all who are wrongfully oppressed or persecuted irrespective of religion, colour, caste or creed.

The principal beliefs of Sikhi are faith in Waheguru—represented by the phrase ik ōaṅkār, meaning one God, along with a praxis in which the Sikh is enjoined to engage in social reform through the pursuit of justice for all human beings. Sikhi advocates the pursuit of salvation in a social context through the congregational practice meditation on the name and message of God

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

209 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 1:31:47pm

CAN'T WAIT! (The former hearse owner with the bed in the back is making the toast) Adam Steltzner @steltzner)

210 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 1:35:40pm

Adam Steltzner
@steltzner

Master of Mars, expert jam maker, and dangerous dinner guest.
Altadena, CA

I'm getting close to a minor hero worship here. Might DM him a dinner invite if he's single. HA.

See NPR interview. [Link: www.npr.org...]

211 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 1:37:35pm

OK, I'm confused. Are there people still inside? What's happening right now?

212 erik_t  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 1:39:07pm

re: #209 Stanley Sea

[Embedded content]

CAN'T WAIT! (The former hearse owner with the bed in the back is making the toast) Adam Steltzner @steltzner)

Since we're talking politics too... that's Entry, Descent and Landing. Typical NASA terminology.

213 dragonath  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 1:39:25pm

re: #198 TedStriker

That makes some sense, considering that, IIRC, some Sikhs were getting abuse and threats from ignorant Americans right after 9/11, because people thought they were Muslim.

There was a local convienence store that was owned by Sikhs. They closed it down soon after 9/11 because there were just too many crazy assholes out there.

Oh, It's pretty damn depressing when there is a story like this, "see anyone's arrest records" ads show up in the sidebar. Our culture is sick.

214 CuriousLurker  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 1:39:52pm

As far as I can tell, the temple has been secured, but there are still people being interviewed by police on the premises.

215 RadicalModerate  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 1:41:32pm

Even Fox Sports can't stay away from making a racist slur in regards to
Serena Williams' "Golden Slam" win:

[Link: msn.foxsports.com...]

The woman who grew up in Compton did the Crip Walk.

For the uninitiated, the Crip Walk is a funky little hip-hop dance move made famous by Crip gang members in Compton in the 1970s.

And there was Serena — the tennis legend, the winner of 14 individual Grand Slams, the best player of her generation, the American girl being crowned at the All-England Club as the queen of tennis — Crip-Walking all over the most lily-white place in the world.

216 Amory Blaine  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 1:43:49pm

re: #213 Fred Galt

There was a local convienence store that was owned by Sikhs. They closed it down soon after 9/11 because there were just too many crazy assholes out there.

Oh, It's pretty damn depressing when there is a story like this, "see anyone's arrest records" ads show up in the sidebar. Our culture is sick.

It is disturbing. But hey more guns for us and tax breaks for the rich are the order of the day.

In the days after the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks, at least four acts of violence against Sikhs occurred in the Milwaukee area, , said Swarnjit S. Arora, a founder of the local Sikh Religious Society said in 2002. Two taxis owned by Sikh drivers were vandalized, and two Sikh men were assaulted, said Arora. The crimes were not widely reported by the news media because they were overshadowed by dramatic events across the nation, he said.

217 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 1:44:27pm

re: #215 RadicalModerate

Even Fox Sports can't stay away from making a racist slur in regards to
Serena Williams' "Golden Slam" win:

[Link: msn.foxsports.com...]

Well, good for her.

(And Fox News' constituency HATES the Williams girls. It's intense.)

218 William of Orange  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 1:45:55pm

I won't speculate, I won't speculate, I won't speculate, I won't speculate, I won't speculate, I won't speculate, I won't speculate, I won't speculate, I won't speculate, I won't speculate, I won't speculate, I won't speculate, I won't speculate, I won't speculate, I won't speculate, I won't speculate,I won't speculate, I won't speculate, I won't speculate, I won't speculate.....


Damn hard not to!!

But...

I won't speculate, I won't speculate, I won't speculate, I won't speculate, I won't speculate, I won't speculate, I won't speculate, I won't speculate, I won't speculate, I won't speculate, I won't speculate, I won't speculate, I won't speculate, I won't speculate, I won't speculate, I won't speculate,I won't speculate, I won't speculate, I won't speculate, I won't speculate......


You do the math....

Damn, failed again.....

219 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 1:47:05pm

re: #215 RadicalModerate

Even Fox Sports can't stay away from making a racist slur in regards to
Serena Williams' "Golden Slam" win:

[Link: msn.foxsports.com...]

Image: tumblr_m861z2mr2U1qkr8vco1_500.jpg

220 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 1:48:10pm

Oh, and the White House has a cute picture up of Michelle hugging Serena. Stay tuned for someone to engage in pointless hysterics.

221 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 1:48:18pm

re: #219 moderatelyradicalliberal

Image: tumblr_m861z2mr2U1qkr8vco1_500.jpg

Yeah, basically.

222 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 1:48:19pm

re: #217 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, good for her.

(And Fox News' constituency HATES the Williams girls. It's intense.)

I wonder what they had to say about Ryan Lochte's grill?

223 William of Orange  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 1:48:58pm

Get to your screens.

Bolt is coming on!


(And there's a Dutchman in there as well!!!)

224 erik_t  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 1:49:07pm

re: #222 moderatelyradicalliberal

I wonder what they had to say about Ryan Lochte's grill?

Terrorist tooth-bump.

225 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 1:51:05pm

re: #222 moderatelyradicalliberal

I wonder what they had to say about Ryan Lochte's grill?

I'm sure they thought it was very tasteful. On Lochte.

226 Targetpractice  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 1:51:37pm

So, how long before the inevitable "If they'd only been carrying concealed guns" bit from the wingnuts?

227 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 1:52:08pm

re: #225 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm sure they thought it was very tasteful. On Lochte.

He's hot, but probably a jackass. Oh and I thought the grill was cute.

228 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 1:52:23pm

re: #224 erik_t

Terrorist tooth-bump.

LOL!

229 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 1:52:39pm

re: #226 Targetpractice

So, how long before the inevitable "If they'd only been carrying concealed guns" bit from the wingnuts?

Already going on, I'm sure.

230 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 1:52:43pm

re: #220 SanFranciscoZionist

Oh, and the White House has a cute picture up of Michelle hugging Serena. Stay tuned for someone to engage in pointless hysterics.

Linky??

231 dragonath  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 1:52:44pm

re: #215 RadicalModerate

I thought Bob Jones University was the most lily-white place in the world.

232 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 1:53:30pm

re: #226 Targetpractice

So, how long before the inevitable "If they'd only been carrying concealed guns" bit from the wingnuts?

That will never come. Selective bullshit is bullshit.

233 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 1:55:35pm

re: #227 moderatelyradicalliberal

He's hot, but probably a jackass. Oh and I thought the grill was cute.

It had a certain goofy charm. Especially with a gold medal held up next to it.

234 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 1:56:00pm

mmmm.

235 Amory Blaine  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 1:56:02pm

re: #157 Charles Johnson

Jim Hoft is now frantically searching for evidence that the shooter was a registered Democrat.

If the shooter is from Wisconsin there is no option of party affiliation:

Declaring a party affiliation is never required, however, and some states, including Georgia, Michigan, Virginia, Minnesota, Wisconsin and Washington, do not offer the option of declaring party affiliation with registration at all.

Edit: added a link.

236 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 1:56:59pm

re: #227 moderatelyradicalliberal

He's hot, but probably a jackass. Oh and I thought the grill was cute.

He's a Florida Gator. I am proud!

237 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 1:56:59pm

re: #230 Stanley Sea

Linky??

[Link: tennisboulevard.blogspot.com...]

I can't do the White House link, because it goes to all the Michelle at the Olympics pictures, and I don't know how to isolate one.

238 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 1:57:50pm

re: #237 SanFranciscoZionist

[Link: tennisboulevard.blogspot.com...]

I can't do the White House link, because it goes to all the Michelle at the Olympics pictures, and I don't know how to isolate one.

Oh that is awesome! Thanks!

239 austin_blue  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 1:58:43pm

re: #234 Stanley Sea

[Embedded content]

mmmm.

A spacecraft with nostrils?

240 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 1:59:39pm

re: #239 austin_blue

A spacecraft with nostrils?

I am extremely transparent. You know what I'm seeing. A smart as hell good looking scientist. Nice capsule too.

241 Romantic Heretic  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:00:26pm

re: #165 calochortus

Just a couple days ago I was listening to an NPR story about Punjabis living in Kerman, CA (near Fresno.) It's an agricultural area with lots of Hispanics, who by and large are getting along fine with their new neighbors. They have started teaching Punjabi as an elective in one of the schools, and had a comment from a Hispanic girl who was taking Punjabi as her foreign language so she could talk to her friends in their native language, and then her parents wouldn't understand what they said. It made me smile-and it's one of the things I love about California. I love seeing the Hispanic workmen at the Italian owned grocery store getting their sushi for lunch. I love having an Afghan restaurant next door to a Chinese place.
It is so sad that other people can't always enjoy the diversity that makes life richer.

I feel the same way about Toronto.

242 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:01:12pm

omg

243 engineer cat  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:01:36pm

re: #239 austin_blue

A spacecraft with nostrils?

what does mars smell like?

seriously, i heard somebody ask a moon astronaut what the moon smelled like - he said that um, duh, you couldn't really smell anything with a spacesuit on, but that the moonrocks smelled "like gunpowder"

244 calochortus  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:02:31pm

re: #242 Stanley Sea

Well, that sounds ugly.

245 austin_blue  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:02:59pm

re: #241 Romantic Heretic

I feel the same way about Toronto.

Yo!

(waves hand in a shout-out to my town)

246 Targetpractice  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:03:24pm

re: #242 Stanley Sea

[Embedded content]

omg

And that now makes two shooters decked out in tactical gear in this year alone.

247 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:03:53pm

re: #243 engineer cat

what does mars smell like?

seriously, i heard somebody ask a moon astronaut what the moon smelled like - he said that um, duh, you couldn't really smell anything with a spacesuit on, but that the moonrocks smelled "like gunpowder"

I read an article a while back about what space itself smells like. Apparently, once you get out of the suits, they smell of something acrid or metallic, although some people also describe seared steak.

248 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:04:08pm

re: #244 calochortus

Well, that sounds ugly.

Tactical gear. Yep, fucked up.

249 Targetpractice  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:05:58pm

re: #247 SanFranciscoZionist

I read an article a while back about what space itself smells like. Apparently, once you get out of the suits, they smell of something acrid or metallic, although some people also describe seared steak.

The PopSci book that collected a bunch of their old Q&A articles included one about the smell of space. Said that hydrocarbons are a major element to the background gases and that astronauts have described their suits smelling of diesel fumes after long spacewalks.

250 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:06:33pm

re: #242 Stanley Sea

[Embedded content]

omg

Earlier they were just saying 'short-sleeved shirt', no?

251 dragonath  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:06:39pm

If someone was exposed to straight space, the sun would probably burn ya like a steak if the vacuum didn't get you first.

Isn't the atmosphere great, or what?

252 General Nimrod Bodfish  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:07:31pm

re: #242 Stanley Sea

If true, then that raises a few questions:
1) How are they getting tactical body armour?
2) Why, exactly, is tactical body armour available to the public? OR
3) How are they assembling tactical armour?

Looks like a presser is about to begin:

[Link: www.wkow.com...]

253 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:07:32pm

Press conference about to start...

254 engineer cat  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:08:24pm

cnn: president says "america is enriched by sikhs"

i suppose fundies will take this as an anti-christian statement

255 CuriousLurker  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:08:55pm

Police briefing starting: [Link: www.wkow.com...]

256 b_sharp  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:09:15pm

re: #245 austin_blue

Yo!

(waves hand in a shout-out to my town)

The frikkin' centre of the universe.

We westerners don't like Tarana.
(So I've been told)

257 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:09:16pm

Amber Noggle?

258 The Left  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:09:17pm

oooh, someone live blog the press conference please, i can't get it.

259 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:10:20pm

re: #255 CuriousLurker

Police briefing starting: [Link: www.wkow.com...]

I have to download silverlight. I'll wait for your reports I guess. (The ad for Noggle ran fine of course)

260 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:10:31pm

re: #257 Stanley Sea

Amber Noggle?

You got something to say about that?

261 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:11:27pm

re: #260 SanFranciscoZionist

You got something to say about that?

Back in my day names were changed. I just had a little laugh at her expense. She's probably great.

262 Amory Blaine  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:11:29pm

Live stream of press conference.

[Link: www.todaystmj4.com...]

263 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:11:46pm

The live feed I posted above doesn't use Silverlight - it's Flash. The press conference is also on that one.

264 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:12:28pm

"Domestic terrorist type incident"

265 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:13:03pm

re: #264 Killgore Trout

"Domestic terrorist type incident"

Meaning that the FBI will handle the investigation. Good.

266 General Nimrod Bodfish  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:13:04pm

Sounds like two officers were "engaged" by the suspect; the suspect ambushed one officer and then shot at the other. The wounded officer is in surgery at the moment.

Being treated as a domestic terrorism incident.

267 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:13:18pm
268 Romantic Heretic  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:13:46pm

re: #264 Killgore Trout

re: #265 SanFranciscoZionist

Good.

269 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:15:15pm

re: #265 SanFranciscoZionist

Meaning that the FBI will handle the investigation. Good.

I think it's also an indication that there's no immediate connection to the temple such as being a regular worshiper or his ex wife was there or something like that.

270 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:15:18pm

Seven dead, three injured, including the officer.
No information yet on the perp.

271 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:15:51pm

Everyone is evacuated.

272 Randall Gross  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:16:08pm

re: #267 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Meaning the individual was not foreign.

273 Amory Blaine  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:16:25pm

Chief Edwards: No idea what shooter was wearing.

274 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:16:35pm

Says he has no idea what the shooter was wearing.

275 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:16:40pm

re: #270 SanFranciscoZionist

Seven dead, three injured, including the officer.
No information yet on the perp.

DRT
(dead right there)

The suspect was "put down" and is presumed dead, Wentlandt said.

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

276 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:17:09pm

re: #275 sattv4u2

DRT
(dead right there)

The suspect was "put down" and is presumed dead, Wentlandt said.

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

Aside from his currently dead status, though, no information.

277 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:19:55pm

re: #269 Killgore Trout

I think it's also an indication that there's no immediate connection to the temple such as being a regular worshiper or his ex wife was there or something like that.

Yeah. If they thought it was internal or domestic, they wouldn't be saying terrorism investigation.

278 CuriousLurker  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:19:57pm

These cops without a doubt saved lives at risk to their own. This is why I don't like to hear people calling them "pigs".

279 General Nimrod Bodfish  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:20:16pm

"Tactical officers are standing down."

So it looks like it's just the one suspect. The temple has been searched and everyone inside evacuated.

280 Amory Blaine  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:20:29pm

Saying it was 1 shooter.

281 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:21:23pm
282 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:21:31pm

re: #280 Amory Blaine

Saying it was 1 shooter.

They seem fairly sure of that, but are still combing the area.

283 Randall Gross  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:21:55pm

They are not going to say "Only one" because another shooter could be among the survivors, or among the bodies. They won't say anything definitive until they know for certain & I wouldn't in their shoes.

284 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:22:10pm

re: #276 SanFranciscoZionist

Aside from his currently dead status, though, no information.


One of the temple's committee members, Ven Boba Ri, said that based on communication with people inside the temple, the shooter was a white male in his 30s.

[Link: www.jsonline.com...]

285 CuriousLurker  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:22:11pm

Good to remember: It's very common to get reports of multiple shooters as people are seeing things from various locations/perspectives.

286 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:23:06pm

re: #285 CuriousLurker

Good to remember: It's very common to get reports of multiple shooters as people are seeing things from various locations/perspectives.

horrifying.

287 General Nimrod Bodfish  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:25:37pm

Looks like the presser is over. From what I caught, 7 are confirmed killed and 3 injured. So far only 1 suspect has been confirmed but seem to leave open the possibility of other suspects. The known suspect did shoot at two police officers, injuring one that, as of the presser, is undergoing surgery, while the other police officer shot and apparently killed the suspect.

Next official press conference is set at 10AM tomorrow. They won't be officially releasing any other information between now and tomorrow.

288 CuriousLurker  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:26:28pm

re: #287 Worrell-Rimshot 2012!

Yeah, and I think the shooter is counted as one of the 7.

289 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:26:51pm

re: #278 CuriousLurker

These cops without a doubt saved lives at risk to their own. This is why I don't like to hear people calling them "pigs".

I'm glad the police were able to take him down before he could kill more people. They were brave and right to do so. But I kinda hate when the shooter gets killed. I prefer they be taken alive. A quick death is too easy.

290 CuriousLurker  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:27:57pm

re: #289 moderatelyradicalliberal

Same here.

291 Amory Blaine  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:28:41pm

Interviewed surgery staff at Freodert hospital. Operating on 3 victims.

292 danarchy  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:29:01pm

re: #269 Killgore Trout

I think it's also an indication that there's no immediate connection to the temple such as being a regular worshiper or his ex wife was there or something like that.

I think most likely with the current lack of information on the shooter or motive it is probably the designation that they had to give it to give the FBI jurisdiction. In a town of 30000 or so, they probably just don't have the in house resources to handle something of this scale.

293 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:29:11pm

re: #285 CuriousLurker

Good to remember: It's very common to get reports of multiple shooters as people are seeing things from various locations/perspectives.

And with so many gun shots going off. It's hard to imagine one person being able to kill so many people with one gun. Or at least it shouldn't be possible.

294 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:29:11pm

re: #289 moderatelyradicalliberal

I'm glad the police were able to take him down before he could kill more people. They were brave and right to do so. But I kinda hate when the shooter gets killed. I prefer they be taken alive. A quick death is too easy.

Is that advocating for the death penalty for such crimes?

295 General Nimrod Bodfish  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:29:44pm

re: #289 moderatelyradicalliberal

If killing the suspect means saving more lives and protecting the officers as they try to make sense of the ongoing situation, then I have no problem with it.

296 CuriousLurker  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:30:23pm

re: #293 moderatelyradicalliberal

And with so many gun shots going off. It's hard to imagine one person being able to kill so many people with one gun. Or at least it shouldn't be possible.

Yeah, would that it wasn't possible. *sigh*

297 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:31:24pm

re: #293 moderatelyradicalliberal

And with so many gun shots going off. It's hard to imagine one person being able to kill so many people with one gun. Or at least it shouldn't be possible.

It's very possible

He shot a couple outside, reloaded as he walked inside (most likely those inside weren't aware of what transpired outside yet) emptied his gun then reloaded as he walked outside again where he was confronted and shot at the officers (and maybe a couple of more people)

298 Sheila Broflovski  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:31:40pm

Have the wingnuts begun saying that this could have been avoided if everyone at the temple was packing?

299 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:33:35pm

re: #294 sattv4u2

Is that advocating for the death penalty for such crimes?

I prefer life in prison for first degree murder, as in a person's natural life. But in the case of mass killers, serial killers and child killers, I don't lose any sleep when they get the death penalty.

I respect objecting to the death penalty in all circumstances.

300 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:34:54pm

re: #297 sattv4u2

It's very possible

He shot a couple outside, reloaded as he walked inside (most likely those inside weren't aware of what transpired outside yet) emptied his gun then reloaded as he walked outside again where he was confronted and shot at the officers (and maybe a couple of more people)

I'm with Chris Rock. $5000 per bullet.

301 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:35:13pm

re: #295 Worrell-Rimshot 2012!

If killing the suspect means saving more lives and protecting the officers as they try to make sense of the ongoing situation, then I have no problem with it.

Agreed.

302 Amory Blaine  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:35:31pm

To declare this domestic terrorism means they have something tangible for the link?

303 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:35:36pm

re: #300 moderatelyradicalliberal

I'm with Chris Rock. $5000 per bullet.

Sorry, I don't understand the reference

Is that what he says ammo should cost?

304 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:36:00pm

re: #298 Learned Mother of Zion

Have the wingnuts begun saying that this could have been avoided if everyone at the temple was packing?

I'm actually a little surprised nobody was. The Sikh ceremonial isn't just a meaningless symbol. They are in many ways a warrior culture. Very high value on military, police service and even here in the US often work in private security jobs.

305 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:37:05pm

re: #302 Amory Blaine

To declare this domestic terrorism means they have something tangible for the link?

Possibly but maybe just no other simple explanation fits with the evidence at hand so they're keeping their options open.

306 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:37:07pm

re: #302 Amory Blaine

To declare this domestic terrorism means they have something tangible for the link?

I don't think it necessarily does.

307 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:37:57pm

re: #304 Killgore Trout

I'm actually a little surprised nobody was. The Sikh ceremonial isn't just a meaningless symbol. They are in many ways a warrior culture. Very high value on military, police service and even here in the US often work in private security jobs.

Someone may have been, but not gotten a chance to engage. Or perhaps you don't pack at the gurdwara. Don't know.

308 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:38:19pm

re: #303 sattv4u2

Sorry, I don't understand the reference

Is that what he says ammo should cost?

Chris Rock had a show years ago in which he joked that we don't need gun control, we need ammunition control. He joked that is bullets cost a lot of money nobody would ever shoot anyone on accident. He was specifically talking about innocent bystanders that get shot in gang drive-bys.

309 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:38:22pm

re: #304 Killgore Trout

I'm actually a little surprised nobody was. The Sikh ceremonial isn't just a meaningless symbol. They are in many ways a warrior culture. Very high value on military, police service and even here in the US often work in private security jobs.

Exactly.
Here in our (relatively) small town I know of at least two Sihks that are on the police force. What if it's the same in that town, and one of them was attending the service while carrying. Could have minimized the victim count

310 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:38:29pm

re: #303 sattv4u2

Sorry, I don't understand the reference

Is that what he says ammo should cost?

The idea is to subvert the right to a gun by oppressive taxes. Much as if we regulated free speech by requiring a $5000 a day fee to log onto the net.

311 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:39:02pm

re: #308 moderatelyradicalliberal

got it

thanks

312 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:39:42pm

re: #310 William Barnett-Lewis

The idea is to subvert the right to a gun by oppressive taxes. Much as if we regulated free speech by requiring a $5000 a day fee to log onto the net.

Wait

Your provider charges less???

/

313 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:40:13pm

re: #304 Killgore Trout

I'm actually a little surprised nobody was. The Sikh ceremonial isn't just a meaningless symbol. They are in many ways a warrior culture. Very high value on military, police service and even here in the US often work in private security jobs.

Just in case people think I'm just making shit up...
American Sikhs Run Billion-Dollar Security Firm

Next to the elaborate temple is a cluster of drab modular buildings that constitute the headquarters of Akal Security. The reach of this Sikh-founded and Sikh-managed company is huge.

In most cities across the country, for example, the guards who run the metal detectors at the doors of federal courthouses work for Akal Security.

In just the past three years, Akal and its subsidiary, Coastal International Security, earned more than $1 billion in federal contracts. In addition to screening people at federal courthouses, Akal also guards immigration detention centers, NASA facilities, federal buildings in Washington, D.C., and embassies under construction from Ecuador to Iraq.

314 Amory Blaine  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:41:10pm

re: #312 sattv4u2

That's for the super fast 3Mb connection!!!

315 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:41:46pm

re: #313 Killgore Trout

Just in case people think I'm just making shit up

I always wondered what was hidden inside your pedestal!! It's your MAKE SHIT UP MACHINE!

316 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:42:46pm

re: #315 sattv4u2

((dammitt,,,, now I'm gonna get a double downding from the double "A"s !)))

317 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:43:11pm

re: #315 sattv4u2

Just in case people think I'm just making shit up

I always wondered what was hidden inside your pedestal!! It's your MAKE SHIT UP MACHINE!

lol. As soon as I posted that I expect a deluge of outrageous outrage and accusations of racial profiling.

318 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:43:45pm

re: #313 Killgore Trout

Just in case people think I'm just making shit up...
American Sikhs Run Billion-Dollar Security Firm

I've noticed that in airports. Security is often Sikhs. Also, don't they carry sacred knife in the turbans sometimes?

319 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:44:11pm

re: #317 Killgore Trout

lol. As soon as I posted that I expect a deluge of outrageous outrage and accusations of racial profiling.

wait for it ,,, wait for it,,, !!!

/

320 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:45:07pm

re: #313 Killgore Trout

Just in case people think I'm just making shit up...
American Sikhs Run Billion-Dollar Security Firm

No, their tradition is formidable.

I remember this from last year.

[Link: www.indusage.com.au...]

321 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:46:35pm

re: #318 moderatelyradicalliberal

I've noticed that in airports. Security is often Sikhs. Also, don't they carry sacred knife in the turbans sometimes?

Every traditional Sikh man is supposed to carry the dagger, although I think they're rarely sharpened. It's symbolic of the obligation to defend the innocent, IIRC.

There's other stuff, the turban means something, and the steel bangles...women wear those too. And something else.

322 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:46:44pm

Re "domestic terrorism" designation. It's likely they have an ID on ther perp by now and some information on his motives. They would withhold this for the usual reasons: notification of next of kin and to avoid alerting associates who might otherwise try to conceal evidence.

For instance, if you belong to one of the many white supremacist gangs in Wisconsin and you hear that one of your members carried out a mass shooting, the first thing you will do is try to get rid of anything incriminating, possibly including yourself if you have a good place to hide.

323 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:47:13pm

re: #318 moderatelyradicalliberal

I've noticed that in airports. Security is often Sikhs. Also, don't they carry sacred knife in the turbans sometimes?

For airport travel they use a mock wooden "dagger" as a substitute. It's really just a stick. BTW, like the Mormons, they have special underwear too. It must always remain in contact with their body.

324 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:47:23pm

re: #321 SanFranciscoZionist

Every traditional Sikh man is supposed to carry the dagger, although I think they're rarely sharpened. It's symbolic of the obligation to defend the innocent, IIRC.

There's other stuff, the turban means something, and the steel bangles...women wear those too. And something else.

the turban is an article of faith that represents honour, self-respect, courage, spirituality, and piety
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

325 Randall Gross  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:47:40pm

I'm giving four stars to the local PD so far, not just for the way they stopped the incident from worsening, but also for the professional and methodical way they are proceeding; as well as handling the press. I've seen big city forces that could learn from the Oak Creek team.

326 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:49:20pm

re: #325 Randall Gross

I'm giving four stars to the local PD so far, not just for the way they stopped the incident from worsening, but also for the professional and methodical way they are proceeding; as well as handling the press. I've seen big city forces that could learn from the Oak Creek team.

Police procedures for handling these incidents are getting pretty refined through frequent repetition.

327 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:49:21pm

OK, this is what I recalled:

The Five Ks, or panj kakaar/kakke, are five articles of faith that all baptized Sikhs (also called Khalsa Sikhs) are typically obliged to wear at all times, as commanded by the tenth Sikh Guru, who so ordered on the day of Baisakhi Amrit Sanskar in 1699. The symbols are worn for identification and representation of the ideals of Sikhism, such as honesty, equality, fidelity, militarism, meditating on God, and never bowing to tyranny.[32]

The five symbols are:
Kesh (uncut hair, usually tied and wrapped in the Sikh Turban, Dastar)
Kanga (a wooden comb, usually worn under the Dastar)
Katchera (specially made cotton underwear as a reminder of the commitment to purity)
Kara (an iron bracelet, which is a symbol of eternity)
Kirpan (a curved sword, which comes in different sizes; for example in the UK Sikhs would wear a small sharp dagger, whereas in the Punjab Sikhs would wear the traditional curved sword, from one to three feet in length)

328 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:50:10pm

ATTENTION ON DECK

THE QUEEN HAS ARRIVED!!

Hey REINE

LTNS

329 Randall Gross  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:50:52pm

re: #326 Shiplord Kirel

Police procedures for handling these incidents are getting pretty refined through frequent repetition.

& they have to because the terrorist methods are becoming more complex and multi-layered. Regardless, kudos to Oak Creek.

330 Obdicut  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:51:21pm

re: #317 Killgore Trout

lol. As soon as I posted that I expect a deluge of outrageous outrage and accusations of racial profiling.

Why?

331 MittDoesNotCompute  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:51:51pm

re: #278 CuriousLurker

These cops without a doubt saved lives at risk to their own. This is why I don't like to hear people calling them "pigs".

One thing that we never could get through to laZardo...damn shame about him.

332 reine.de.tout  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:53:16pm

re: #328 sattv4u2

ATTENTION ON DECK

THE QUEEN HAS ARRIVED!!

Hey REINE

LTNS

heh. Howdy!

Such an awful event, this shooting.

333 Obdicut  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:53:19pm

re: #325 Randall Gross

Yeah. And that they're willing to admit that they have no more details, and they're refusing to feed the media every hour on the hour, instead setting a deadline for tomorrow when people will know more.

Now watch the media, frenzied at the scent of blood, track down every last grieving friend and relative of the victims and try to shove cameras in their faces.

334 reine.de.tout  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:54:02pm

re: #333 Obdicut

Obdi - check your email, please

335 William of Orange  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:55:33pm

Foxnews reporting seven dead... including the shooter.

Not good...

336 reine.de.tout  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:56:29pm

re: #325 Randall Gross

I'm giving four stars to the local PD so far, not just for the way they stopped the incident from worsening, but also for the professional and methodical way they are proceeding; as well as handling the press. I've seen big city forces that could learn from the Oak Creek team.

I was particularly impressed,for some reason, to find out the police chief from a neighboring community is helping out by serving as communications liaison. What a way for law enforcement agencies to work together!

337 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:57:13pm

re: #330 Obdicut

Why?

Because his name is Killgore Trout

he (and to a lesser extent I) have been getting downdings for even the most innocuous statements of late

And no, I'm not going to play the 'provide me some' and then have you parse them

(oh ,, okay ,, here's one)
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

338 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:59:20pm

re: #336 reine.de.tout

How's the king doing these days. He and the pooches still sittin', waitin for snacks!?!?

LOL

339 Randall Gross  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 2:59:33pm

re: #333 Obdicut

Yeah. And that they're willing to admit that they have no more details, and they're refusing to feed the media every hour on the hour, instead setting a deadline for tomorrow when people will know more.

Now watch the media, frenzied at the scent of blood, track down every last grieving friend and relative of the victims and try to shove cameras in their faces.

Yes, I particularly liked the "No Official source will release more information until then" part.

340 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 3:01:50pm

They did a good job.

Wish they hadn't had the opportunity.

341 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 3:02:31pm

re: #340 SanFranciscoZionist

They did a good job.

Wish they hadn't had the opportunity.

amen to that

342 reine.de.tout  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 3:03:40pm

re: #338 sattv4u2

How's the king doing these days. He and the pooches still sittin', waitin for snacks!?!?

LOL

LOL. Daily.

343 Obdicut  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 3:03:40pm

re: #334 reine.de.tout

Obdi - check your email, please

Oh, I did, it's awesome. Thank you. I'll reply now.

344 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 3:04:41pm

re: #342 reine.de.tout

LOL. Daily.

a man (and dogs) after my (and my dogs) own heart(s)

345 Obdicut  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 3:04:51pm

re: #337 sattv4u2

It's pretty silly to think that people at LGF would react to commonly-known information about Sikh's with accusations of racial profiling-- and, easily seen, it didn't happen-- but whatever floats your victimhood boat.

346 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 3:05:45pm

re: #345 Obdicut

thattaboy!

347 efuseakay  Sun, Aug 5, 2012 5:25:38pm

re: #53 b_sharp

Militia?

"Militia"... Boy that'll get the right wingers in a tiffy... 2nd Amendment!!! Constitution!!!!

348 Dr Lizardo  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:14:16am

At last! I was able to register here at LGF after many years of reading and wishing to comment!

My English students and friends here in the Czech Republic and a few friends in Istanbul are asking me, "WTF is going on in America?".

The only explanation I can come up with is that from time to time, these sort of incidents crop up in a copycat sequence, owing largely to wall-to-wall media coverage of senseless tragedies such as this. One rather pathetic, alienated nutburger goes on a rampage, and the resulting non-stop news coverage seems to inspire other pathetic, alienated nutburgers to undertake similar endeavors.

My thoughts are with the Sikh community in Oak Creek, and my condolences for the unspeakable tragedy they now they find themselves confronted with.


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