Your Bigoted Fear-Mongering All-Caps #Breitbart.com Headline of the Day

Muslims under the bed at Breitbart.com
Wingnuts • Views: 51,345

breitbart.com raver “William Bigelow” (who may or may not be a real person), last seen at LGF when he was assuring the wingnut audience that there was no such thing as a “white Hispanic,” gives us our fear-mongering all-caps headline of the day, complete with a scary burqa dominating a US flag: OBAMA ADMINISTRATION PAVES THE WAY FOR SHARIA LAW.

This kind of bigoted, moronic incitement is especially disgusting and inappropriate, coming immediately after a mass murder attack by a xenophobic neo-Nazi. The loons at right wing sites like breitbart.com don’t even see incidents like the Sikh temple shootings as a warning sign — they just redouble their hate speech. And the right wing base loves it, eats it up like noxious candy.

The most harrowing prospect is the Obama Administration’s passivity in the face of attempts to introduce aspects of sharia law into our legal system. Now there is strong and open evidence of the Obama administration collaborating with Islamist activists to ensure the path toward sharia law is accelerated.

Just last week, Thomas Perez, Assistant Attorney General of the Department of Justice (DOJ) Civil Rights Division, was asked this question by Trent Franks (R-AZ), a member of the House Judiciary Committee Subcommittee on the Constitution: “Will you tell us here today that this Administration’s Department of Justice will never entertain or advance a proposal that criminalizes speech against any religion?”

Perez refused to answer. Four times.

Here’s the video referred to by “William Bigelow” in this twisted example of wingnut agitprop. Notice what really goes on here: Assistant Attorney General Thomas Perez is being hectored and interrupted by Birther congressman Trent Franks of Arizona, in one of those ludicrous GOP hearings on the scary Muslims hiding among us with their stealth shariah jihad.

YouTube Video

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580 comments
1 freetoken  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 5:29:25pm

Repeating myself here:

Lest we forget Breitbart's legacy: There's no headline too inflammatory to be news!

2 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 5:31:55pm

And somewhere in the darker corner of the afterlife, Joe McCarthy looks on with a smile as his ideological descendants take up the torch.

3 aagcobb  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 5:32:24pm

Criminalizing speech against a religion violates the 1st Amendment, so that's a pretty silly question, actually nothing more than posturing.

4 Kragar  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 5:32:26pm

Paving the way because he's passive on the matter. Using that logic, I am paving the way for the undersea amphibious lemur people to take over the world because I'm taking no action to stop them.

5 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 5:33:40pm

re: #4 Kragar

Paving the way because he's passive on the matter. Using that logic, I am paving the way for the undersea amphibious lemur people to take over the world because I'm taking no action to stop them.

I hear they like to move it, move it.

//

6 Charles Johnson  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 5:33:45pm

re: #4 Kragar

Paving the way because he's passive on the matter. Using that logic, I am paving the way for the undersea amphibious lemur people to take over the world because I'm taking no action to stop them.

Stealth amphibians are taking over the White House!

7 freetoken  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 5:34:31pm

Romney and the GOP's Muslim strategy

The new GOP Southern Strategy highlights Muslims and Arabs as the key threats to national security and "law and order."

When Mitt Romney claimed that Israel's "culture" is responsible for its economic superiority, he was recycling the "Southern Strategy"- this time with Muslims and Arabs added to the mix.

The GOP devised the Southern Strategy in the 1960s and '70s as a way to win over white voters with subtle racial messages about crime and welfare. African-American men were coded as criminals to be locked up, and poverty was presented as a product of "black culture" not to be encouraged through government "handouts." Romney's backhanded hailing of Palestinian "culture" fits this framework.

[...]

Bachmann's attack on Abedin - and its ringing endorsement by Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Newt Gingrich and Romney's foreign policy guru John Bolton - indicates that Romney has no problem stirring up the ugly pot.

Muslims and Arabs have been incorporated into the Southern Strategy, and Islamophobia will continue to thrive this election season unless people of conscience speak out.

8 Charles Johnson  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 5:35:03pm

Will you denounce the stealth amphibians, Mr. Perez? Will you denounce them?

Why won't you denounce the stealth amphibians? What are you hiding?

9 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 5:35:14pm

In the world of rwnjs, refusal to answer is equivalent to admitting to the worst of anti-American sentiments.

Critical thinking is an anathema to them, because they have to put aside emotions.

10 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 5:35:47pm

re: #6 Charles Johnson

Stealth amphibians are taking over the White House!

Obama is in league with the Deep Ones?

//

11 researchok  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 5:37:17pm

re: #1 freetoken

Breitbart's raison d'etre isn't news. It is about promoting an agenda.

As such, they have to rely on ever escalating hysteria so as to keep themselves front page relevant.

There is nothing wrong with promoting a point of view if that point of is rational, resumed and thoughtful. That environment provides a platform for exchange.

Breitbart doesn't want exchange. They want 'good little soldiers'.

12 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 5:38:35pm

re: #10 Targetpractice

Obama is in league with the Deep Ones?

//

He is one of them.

13 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 5:38:44pm

Can you imagine the equivalent of inciting to riot against a specific religion? Say, resurrecting the blood libel in a small town that has one synagog during an outbreak of missing children. Not all speech is protected, nor should it be.

14 jaunte  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 5:39:05pm

Shelia Musaji:

Bachmann, Trent Franks, Louie Gohmert, Thomas Rooney and Lynn Westmoreland should all be ashamed of themselves. And, Bachmann, Franks, Gohmert, and Westmoreland who are all members of Capitol Ministries that hosts regular Christian Bible studies for, and ministers to, Members of Congress, should pray on what they are doing. They might also want to consider just how much their Islamophobic rantings sound like a previous generations anti-Semitism.

… It would seem that some of our elected representatives had their fingers crossed when taking this oath.

All of these folks really need to study the Constitution of the United States to remember that the Congress represents “we the people”, all of us, not just some particular segments of the population.

[Link: www.islamophobiatoday.com...]

15 aagcobb  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 5:40:37pm

re: #7 freetoken

Romney and the GOP's Muslim strategy

The new GOP Southern Strategy highlights Muslims and Arabs as the key threats to national security and "law and order."

I say they should keep it coming. Even if they won every single electoral vote south of the Potomac, Romney loses if their bigotry and hatred turn off the independent voters in the Midwest and the West.

16 erik_t  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 5:41:49pm

I had fifth grade teachers mark down such piss-poor writing.

17 aagcobb  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 5:42:58pm

re: #13 goddamnedfrank

Can you imagine the equivalent of inciting to riot against a specific religion? Say, resurrecting the blood libel in a small town that has one synagog during an outbreak of missing children. Not all speech is protected, nor should it be.

I'm pretty sure that if some asshole claimed the Jews were kidnapping the children, while that statement would be actionable in a civil suit, it couldn't be criminalized. Now if he incited the crowd to specifically attack the Synagogue, that would be unlawful.

18 God of Binders with Women  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 5:43:59pm

Nothing screams

SHARIA!!!

like a photograph with extra vignetting in post-production Photoshop to give it just that extra kick of bigot. What a bunch of donkeyfucks.

19 Charles Johnson  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 5:45:59pm
20 compound_Idaho  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 5:47:12pm

re: #19 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Sometimes 1 seems like too many. 55?

21 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 5:47:47pm

re: #17 aagcobb

I'm pretty sure that if some asshole claimed the Jews were kidnapping the children, while that statement would be actionable in a civil suit, it couldn't be criminalized. Now if he incited the crowd to specifically attack the Synagogue, that would be unlawful.

What if he gets up on his soapbox in the middle of the agitated mob, makes the claim, and then watches them attack the synagog?

I'm just saying that he blanket demand to "never entertain or advance a proposal that criminalizes speech against any religion,” is ridiculous. It completely ignores the fact that such speech can be situationally irresponsible and dangerous to the point of criminal negligence at the very least and at worst intended to cause significant harm.

22 engineer cat  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 5:48:11pm

SHARIA LAW

curiously, it turns out that sikhism specifically forbids the consumption of either halal or kosher meat

this is due to its strenuous strictures against purely ritualistic activity - sikhs may eat meat, but not meat slaughtered according to any religious ritual

23 God of Binders with Women  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 5:48:23pm

Comments section is strong with this one:

1.)

PATITO33
In every way on every day it gets worse!!!!!
we are in the grips of devil!!
Come on November!

2.)

Sharia Law is already here..... Ever been to Dearborn, MI?

3.)

Well,I sent that whore Aziz a very nasty email at her office at Texas Weslayan University late last fall saying in effect that I was not about to be silenced by some unclean medieval third world barbarian whore like her.etc etc...referred to her "private parts" as "haraam"....got a call from the FBI here in Houston a month later saying they wanted a sit down with me to discuss this email etc....soo my lawyer,.former Captain USMC and Harvard Law to boot,came with me to meet them at a Starbucks....told Agent Al Tribble I don't appreciate being rousted by some Fed while this whore is trying to undermine my 1st Amendment rights....happy to say I took no crap off either of the agents that day....both of whom were black....what are the odds of that?

24 dragonath  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 5:53:21pm

re: #7 freetoken

Romney and the GOP's Muslim strategy

The new GOP Southern Strategy highlights Muslims and Arabs as the key threats to national security and "law and order."

Funny that you bring that up. A few years ago I was down in Tennessee visiting some relatives. They live in one of the suburban towns that surround Nashville. In the middle of this town was a small park, and near the center of it was monument to the victims of 9/11 with an engraved picture of the burning towers.

I was totally amazed. Like, I live near NYC. People have really been trying to forget that image and move on, and here these guys have it in the middle of their public park.

25 Iwouldprefernotto  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 5:55:27pm

re: #19 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Q. What's the punishment for 55 wives?

A. 55 mother in laws.

26 God of Binders with Women  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 5:56:11pm

re: #24 Fred Galt

Shortly after 9/11 (maybe six months?), I was working in a bar in Texas, and one of the local ladies showed me some super-sekrit trick with a $20 bill, where after folding it in god-knows-how many ways, it made it look like the burning towers. I was so pissed off, I had her thrown out, and never saw her in the bar again. Good riddance.

27 aagcobb  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 6:01:37pm

re: #21 goddamnedfrank

What if he gets up on his soapbox in the middle of the agitated mob, makes the claim, and then watches them attack the synagog?

I'm just saying that he blanket demand to "never entertain or advance a proposal that criminalizes speech against any religion,” is ridiculous. It completely ignores the fact that such speech can be situationally irresponsible and dangerous to the point of criminal negligence at the very least and at worst intended to cause significant harm.

Maybe if he was participating in a conspiracy to egg the mob into attacking. You may recall some poor schlub in NYC started getting pushed around when he wandered into the middle of the Ground Zero Mosque protest while looking vaguely muslim. No criminal charges for the hatemongers there.

28 engineer cat  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 6:06:08pm

while looking vaguely muslim

i wonder how atheist i look... i definitely look vague

29 Lidane  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 6:08:35pm

re: #7 freetoken

Romney and the GOP's Muslim strategy

The new GOP Southern Strategy highlights Muslims and Arabs as the key threats to national security and "law and order."

The GOP simply cannot function without a bogeyman to fear.

30 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 6:09:54pm

Men's beach volleyball semi-finals?

Srsly NBC WTF? I can understand guys might want to watch hot beach girl's volleyball, but what's the point of dudes beach volleyball?

I mean, if I want to look at gorgeous hot men I can watch men's diving all night long, and I'm sure gay men would too.

31 Patricia Kayden  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 6:10:27pm

So on a day when we are dealing with the murder of Sikh fellow citizens by a racist, Breitbart.com feels perfectly fine with publishing hate speech against Muslims?
Got it.

32 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 6:11:31pm

GGT has a post where a picture really does say a thousand words.

I HAVEN'T FORGOTTEN -Misogyny in the GOP
My G-d doesn't speak exclusively thru men

Damn is all I could say.

Check it out and ding it up.

33 CuriousLurker  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 6:12:29pm

Scary Jew Shadows got nothin' on Scary Niqabi Silhouettes. //

On a more serious note, I've been saying for months that I've been seeing this coming—it wasn't a matter of if, it was a matter of when.

Tag, we're "IT".

I guess the wingnuts aren't going be happy until their fear mongering results in dead American Muslim men, women, and children being put in body bags. It's just a matter of time if this escalates. I wonder how many innocents would have to die to even the score for 9/11 in some people's minds...

34 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 6:13:21pm

re: #23 Summer Lovin' Torture Party

Comments section is strong with this one:

1.)

2.)

3.)

Damn again.

I wonder how much of the third comment is a complete fantasy.

35 Lidane  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 6:13:22pm

re: #31 Patricia Kayden

So on a day when we are dealing with the murder of Sikh fellow citizens by a racist, Breitbart.com feels perfectly fine with publishing hate speech against Muslims?
Got it.

All them Ay-rabs look the same with their funny clothes and turbans. What's the point in tellin' the difference between the ones that worship those Sikh and Islam fellas?

///

36 aagcobb  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 6:13:57pm

re: #28 engineer cat

while looking vaguely muslim

i wonder how atheist i look... i definitely look vague

Here's the video.

37 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 6:14:10pm

re: #33 CuriousLurker

Scary Jew Shadows got nothin' on Scary Niqabi Silhouettes. //

On a more serious note, I've been saying for months that I've been seeing this coming—it wasn't a matter of if, it was a matter of when.

Tag, we're "IT".

I guess the wingnuts aren't going be happy until their fear mongering results in dead American Muslim men, women, and children being put in body bags. It's just a matter of time if this escalates. I wonder how many innocents would have to die to even the score for 9/11 in some people's minds...

How much do you want to bet the Nazi in Wisconsin thought those Sikhs were Muslims?

38 aagcobb  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 6:15:02pm

re: #33 CuriousLurker

Scary Jew Shadows got nothin' on Scary Niqabi Silhouettes. //

On a more serious note, I've been saying for months that I've been seeing this coming—it wasn't a matter of if, it was a matter of when.

Tag, we're "IT".

I guess the wingnuts aren't going be happy until their fear mongering results in dead American Muslim men, women, and children being put in body bags. It's just a matter of time if this escalates. I wonder how many innocents would have to die to even the score for 9/11 in some people's minds...

Kill them all, let God sort em out.

39 Lidane  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 6:15:24pm

re: #37 LudwigVanQuixote

How much do you want to bet the Nazi in Wisconsin thought those Sikhs were Muslims?

Of course he did. They were foreign looking, dark skinned, and wore turbans. Clearly, they were Muslims. =P

No one has ever accused a neo-Nazi of being smart.

40 CuriousLurker  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 6:15:31pm

re: #38 aagcobb

Yep, that's exactly the mindset.

41 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 6:15:54pm

re: #38 aagcobb

That was first said by a pope about sorting Albegensians from Catholics.

42 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 6:16:03pm

OT:

Another story to file in the "What Global Warming?" section of the wingnut mind:

Thousands of fish die as Midwest streams heat up

LINCOLN, Neb. (AP) — Thousands of fish are dying in the Midwest as the hot, dry summer dries up rivers and causes water temperatures to climb in some spots to nearly 100 degrees.

About 40,000 shovelnose sturgeon were killed in Iowa last week as water temperatures reached 97 degrees. Nebraska fishery officials said they've seen thousands of dead sturgeon, catfish, carp, and other species in the Lower Platte River, including the endangered pallid sturgeon. And biologists in Illinois said the hot weather has killed tens of thousands of large- and smallmouth bass and channel catfish and is threatening the population of the greater redhorse fish, a state-endangered species.

So many fish died in one Illinois lake that the carcasses clogged an intake screen near a power plant, lowering water levels to the point that the station had to shut down one of its generators.

"It's something I've never seen in my career, and I've been here for more than 17 years," said Mark Flammang, a fisheries biologist with the Iowa Department of Natural Resources. "I think what we're mainly dealing with here are the extremely low flows and this unparalleled heat."

43 Achilles Tang  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 6:16:16pm

I wish that MSNBC, even CNN (gasp), would devote a regular segment to highlighting some of the insanity posted at these hate sites, like WND and others. Most people in this country have no idea how many people there are posting words that sound just like this Wisconsin terrorist.

I doubt it would give them traffic that they don't already have, but it could pressure some of them back to the sewers where they belong, and hit them hard on their advertising.

How does one get that request out? I find that even supposedly open sites like MSNBC make it damn near impossible to figure out how to contact them.

44 CuriousLurker  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 6:16:45pm

re: #37 LudwigVanQuixote

How much do you want to bet the Nazi in Wisconsin thought those Sikhs were Muslims?

Yeah, I figure the chances he had issues with Sikhs (or even knew what they were) were slim to none. We'll see what the FBI says.

45 Achilles Tang  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 6:16:52pm

re: #37 LudwigVanQuixote

How much do you want to bet the Nazi in Wisconsin thought those Sikhs were Muslims?

Not Muslims. Furriners.

46 erik_t  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 6:19:15pm

Fear is addictive. I don't get it.

Hate? Hate I understand, although I choose not to partake. But fear? Who enjoys fear?

I will never understand these people.

47 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 6:22:30pm

re: #39 Lidane

Of course he did. They were foreign looking, dark skinned, and wore turbans. Clearly, they were Muslims. =P

No one has ever accused a neo-Nazi of being smart.

No, the vast majority of them are the worst sorts of losers who are also the worst sorts of narcissists. Their failures had to be someone else's fault.

This guy for example was thrown out of the Army for being a drunk and abusive failure. He then went on to fail at everything else he did, except blame others.

The only good news is that his ilk are not real Nazis. His kind would have been S.A.

Real Nazis were smart and backed by powerful business interests. They knew how to play on the worst fears of the lowest common denominator and push fear into a frenzy during tough economic times. They lied like pros and played common, but ignorant, folks like instruments. Their lies started just a little outside of reality and slowly pushed into bigger and bigger ones - until their lies were given equal weight as the truth and ultimately became the truth - all funded by the same plutocrats. Think Thyssen Krupp etc...

Sound familiar?

Yes the GOP are Nazis. I mean it.

48 CuriousLurker  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 6:23:22pm

re: #46 erik_t

Fear is addictive. I don't get it.

Hate? Hate I understand, although I choose not to partake. But fear? Who enjoys fear?

I will never understand these people.

They're pretty closely related. 9/11 caused a lot of anger & fear. People don't like to be afraid, so anyone that makes them feel fear will be hated. The fear mongering has been going on non-stop, to a greater or lesser degree, for almost eleven years now. That's a lot of fear. And a lot of hate.

49 erik_t  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 6:23:37pm

re: #47 LudwigVanQuixote

No, the vast majority of them are the worst sorts of losers who are also the worst sorts of narcissists. Their failures had to be someone else's fault.

This guy for example was thrown out of the Army for being a drunk and abusive failure. He then went on to fail at everything else he did, except blame others.

I'm now taking bets on how long it'll be before we find out his discharging CO was non-white.

50 aagcobb  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 6:24:24pm

re: #46 erik_t

Fear is addictive. I don't get it.

Hate? Hate I understand, although I choose not to partake. But fear? Who enjoys fear?

I will never understand these people.

Fear is a useful evolutionary feature; an Australopithecus not afraid of a lion was a dead Australopithecus. Its very easy to stoke people's fears of the different and unknown for nefarious purposes.

51 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 6:24:29pm

re: #33 CuriousLurker

Scary Jew Shadows got nothin' on Scary Niqabi Silhouettes. //

Funny you should mention that, I was searching Daylife for a Scary Muslim Shadow, I thought I would find a whole bunch, it being Ramadan and all.

I found some minarets in silhouette and OH LOOK THERE'S A SCARY SHADOW.

Oh wait, it's an Israeli soldier.

52 CuriousLurker  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 6:26:36pm

re: #51 Learned Mother of Zion

Oh wait, it's an Israeli soldier.

Oy. *headdesk*

53 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 6:26:40pm

re: #51 Learned Mother of Zion

Funny you should mention that, I was searching Daylife for a Scary Muslim Shadow, I thought I would find a whole bunch, it being Ramadan and all.

I found some minarets in silhouette and OH LOOK THERE'S A SCARY SHADOW.

Oh wait, it's an Israeli soldier.

Well, you know it is the old Nazi/Russian meme of us lurking in the shadows.

I will never get over how easy it is for plutocrats, autocrats and dictators to run their nations into the ground while convincing the common folk someone else is to blame.

Yes the GOP are Nazis. I mean it.

54 erik_t  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 6:27:37pm

re: #53 LudwigVanQuixote

Well, you know it is the old Nazi/Russian meme of us lurking in the shadows.

I will never get over how easy it is for plutocrats, autocrats and dictators to run their nations into the ground while convincing the common folk someone else is to blame.

Yes the GOP are Nazis. I mean it.

At least the Nazis were snappy dressers.

55 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 6:28:43pm

re: #54 erik_t

At least the Nazis were snappy dressers.

Yeah, you can thank Hugo Boss. Too bad Hugo never put together what the Nazis though of bisexuals like him.

56 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 6:29:03pm

re: #54 erik_t

At least the Nazis were snappy dressers.

That was a genius pic BTW.

57 Lidane  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 6:29:41pm

re: #53 LudwigVanQuixote

Image: voting_republican.jpg

58 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 6:29:43pm

Scary Obama Shadow!

59 Achilles Tang  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 6:29:48pm

re: #51 Learned Mother of Zion

Funny you should mention that, I was searching Daylife for a Scary Muslim Shadow, I thought I would find a whole bunch, it being Ramadan and all.

I found some minarets in silhouette and OH LOOK THERE'S A SCARY SHADOW.

Oh wait, it's an Israeli soldier.

Looks like Satan's horn to me. It must be a sign, I saw it on the internet.

60 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 6:30:36pm

re: #58 Learned Mother of Zion

Scary Obama Shadow!

Well you know he's our puppet!

61 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 6:30:52pm

re: #46 erik_t

Fear is addictive. I don't get it.

Hate? Hate I understand, although I choose not to partake. But fear? Who enjoys fear?

I will never understand these people.

To be constantly in desperate terror for your life, the life of your family, and your way of life and liberty--and yet to know, really, that nothing bad will ever actually happen to you--is to be entirely justified. Justified in your behavior, justified in your hate, justified in all your utterances.

It's delicious. Being the victim means you are never, ever, ever wrong.

It's not nice, but it's very human. You can never be called to account when you are only defending yourself against THEM.

Lynching came out of this mindset.

62 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 6:32:02pm

re: #55 LudwigVanQuixote

Yeah, you can thank Hugo Boss. Too bad Hugo never put together what the Nazis though of bisexuals like him.

And the fuhrer could dance! He could dance the pants off Churchill!

Youtube Video
63 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 6:32:41pm

re: #61 SanFranciscoZionist

To be constantly in desperate terror for your life, the life of your family, and your way of life and liberty--and yet to know, really, that nothing bad will ever actually happen to you--is to be entirely justified. Justified in your behavior, justified in your hate, justified in all your utterances.

It's delicious. Being the victim means you are never, ever, ever wrong.

It's not nice, but it's very human. You can never be called to account when you are only defending yourself against THEM.

Lynching came out of this mindset.

And every other despicable persecuted vengeance fantasy laced with jingoism.

64 erik_t  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 6:32:44pm

re: #50 aagcobb

Fear is a useful evolutionary feature; an Australopithecus not afraid of a lion was a dead Australopithecus. Its very easy to stoke people's fears of the different and unknown for nefarious purposes.

Of course, but this is like Australopithecus going to the lion exhibit at the zoo every day because he enjoys getting off to fear.

They actively seek it out. They revel in it. I don't understand.

65 CuriousLurker  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 6:35:01pm

re: #61 SanFranciscoZionist

You nailed it even better than I did. The fear justifies the hate which justifies everything that springs from it.

66 erik_t  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 6:35:38pm

re: #58 Learned Mother of Zion

Scary Obama Shadow!

HE'S EVEN BLACKER THAN BEFORE!!!1

67 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 6:35:41pm

re: #62 Learned Mother of Zion

And the fuhrer could dance! He could dance the pants off Churchill!

[Embedded content]

Indeed. But Sir Winston could have drunk the little Austrian failed painter under the table.

Though it's also sadly true, the evil guys always dress snappier. This is true from Roman times (and I am counting the Romans as the baddies) to even much longer ago in galaxies far, far away.

68 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 6:36:13pm

re: #65 CuriousLurker

You nailed it even better than I did. The fear justifies the hate which justifies everything that springs from it.

Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate...leads to double fudge brownie ice cream...

Or maybe I'm misremembering that...

//

69 dragonath  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 6:37:13pm

Hugo Boss had nothing on Carmen Ghia...

70 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 6:37:47pm

re: #64 erik_t

Of course, but this is like Australopithecus going to the lion exhibit at the zoo every day because he enjoys getting off to fear.

They actively seek it out. They revel in it. I don't understand.

The difference is that Australopithecus, I reckon, didn't despise the lion. He was scared of it, yes, but his identity wasn't based on being better than the lion.

And he was genuinely aware that it could eat him. A lion ate his Uncle Grok. It was a reasonable fear, based on evidence.

Thinking that sharia is taking over America, or that blacks will riot and rape white women if they get to vote...that's more complicated. I don't think that folks who claim those fears are entirely cynically faking, but I also don't think they really expect such things to happen, if that makes any sense.

71 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 6:38:16pm

re: #68 Targetpractice

Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate...leads to double fudge brownie ice cream...

Or maybe I'm misremembering that...

//

That is the problem with the light side...

I was joking with a grad student about it. He was thinking of taking a gig in an unsavoury industry.

If you work for the light side, you are unappreciated, live in a swamp and are regularly made to feel stupid by those much wiser than you.

If you work for the dark side, you get to go around in a shiny space cruiser and choke underlings.

72 Lidane  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 6:40:27pm

re: #64 erik_t

They actively seek it out. They revel in it. I don't understand.

I keep wondering how much correlation there is between that fear-based mindset and the fear-based mindset of some of the more fire-and-brimstone churches out there. If you believe that God is angry and vengeful and that you should live in active fear of their wrath, then I'd imagine it's real easy to fall for the idea that everyone and everything you hate and/or don't understand is out to get you too.

73 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 6:43:31pm

re: #70 SanFranciscoZionist

The difference is that Australopithecus, I reckon, didn't despise the lion. He was scared of it, yes, but his identity wasn't based on being better than the lion.

And he was genuinely aware that it could eat him. A lion ate his Uncle Grok. It was a reasonable fear, based on evidence.

Thinking that sharia is taking over America, or that blacks will riot and rape white women if they get to vote...that's more complicated. I don't think that folks who claim those fears are entirely cynically faking, but I also don't think they really expect such things to happen, if that makes any sense.

It makes perfect sense.

I propose what they really fear is seeing those they thought of as lower as equals and betters. I propose the fear is of being out competed.

Scratch any racist and find a malignant narcissist, who knows he didn't really earn what he has, or is just a loser.

74 CuriousLurker  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 6:45:34pm

re: #72 Lidane

Probably quite a bit of correlation. It's all fear of The Other.

75 erik_t  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 6:47:33pm

re: #72 Lidane

I can totally buy that. Never did figure out the appeal of getting scared shitless every Sunday, but to each his own...

76 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 6:48:12pm

re: #72 Lidane

I keep wondering how much correlation there is between that fear-based mindset and the fear-based mindset of some of the more fire-and-brimstone churches out there. If you believe that God is angry and vengeful and that you should live in active fear of their wrath, then I'd imagine it's real easy to fall for the idea that everyone and everything you hate and/or don't understand is out to get you too.

It is a giant correlation that has been very well written about.

Two views of God -

1. Loving, wants you to get along and strive to be better and overcome your base nature - you are expected to grow and be more like Him.

2. Hateful and full of vengeance against those who are less special than you - and all you had to do was just be you, not anything else.

Which is the view that someone who has basic self esteem and a capacity to embrace the world, even when it gets hard, would take?

Which is the view of the loser who needs to feel special by putting others down, or the loser who knows he can not compete?

77 allegro  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 6:48:37pm

re: #72 Lidane

I keep wondering how much correlation there is between that fear-based mindset and the fear-based mindset of some of the more fire-and-brimstone churches out there. If you believe that God is angry and vengeful and that you should live in active fear of their wrath, then I'd imagine it's real easy to fall for the idea that everyone and everything you hate and/or don't understand is out to get you too.

This makes me think of a friend who cannot admit when she's wrong even when it's obvious, clear, and no big deal. As a kid, any mistake was severely punished. If she 'fessed up to anything, no matter how minor, she got the crap beaten out of her. I think shame-based religions do the same thing to people. They punish, they frighten, and those lessons don't go away. Anything that goes wrong HAS to be someone else's fault to avoid the punishment. So you have to find someone else to lay it on - it's essential and existential.

78 Interesting Times  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 6:51:32pm

re: #73 LudwigVanQuixote

Ever see this picture? Tells you everything you need to know about how the hideous hybrid conservative cult of Randians and the religious right got to be so successful - they not only appeal to people's worst instincts, but make them feel as if acting on them is totally justified.

In other words, the conservative hate cult tells lies that make people feel good. That's why, even if they know damn well it's a lie, they keep on repeating it like some kind of douche-validation mantra.

79 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 6:53:39pm

re: #78 Interesting Times

Ever see this picture? Tells you everything you need to know about how the hideous hybrid conservative cult of Randians and the religious right got to be so successful - they not only appeal to people's worst instincts, but make them feel as if acting on them is totally justified.

In other words, the conservative hate cult tells lies that make people feel good. That's why, even if they know damn well it's a lie, they keep on repeating it like some kind of douche-validation mantra.

So sad and so true.

I rather like this:

How Ayn Rand and L. Ron Hubbard Came Up With Their Big Ideas

80 CuriousLurker  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 6:56:06pm

re: #73 LudwigVanQuixote

It makes perfect sense.

I propose what they really fear is seeing those they thought of as lower as equals and betters. I propose the fear is of being out competed.

I mentioned something similar a while back. White men have held the reins of power for quite a long time now. If women & minorities can run America as well as they can, then...what? They become dispensable (in their minds). It's the same with male-dominated societies in the Middle East and elsewhere—if women can do what men do and they cede power to them, then where does that leave the men? Again, dispensable (in their minds).

I think there's also worry of payback. George Lopez did a funny routine once about POTUS & minoroties being in charge. He ended with, "Don't worry, we'll treat you just as well as you've treated us!" Heh.

81 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 6:56:38pm

re: #77 allegro

This makes me think of a friend who cannot admit when she's wrong even when it's obvious, clear, and no big deal. As a kid, any mistake was severely punished. If she 'fessed up to anything, no matter how minor, she got the crap beaten out of her. I think shame-based religions do the same thing to people. They punish, they frighten, and those lessons don't go away. Anything that goes wrong HAS to be someone else's fault to avoid the punishment. So you have to find someone else to lay it on - it's essential and existential.

I think that is another important piece. Fascists are not known for their ability to bend rules in light of circumstances or be compassionate.

82 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 6:58:02pm

re: #80 CuriousLurker

I mentioned something similar a while back. White men have held the reins of power for quite a long time now. If women & minorities can run America as well as they can, then...what? They become dispensable (in their minds). It's the same with male-dominated societies in the Middle East and elsewhere—if women can do what men do and they cede power to them, then where does that leave the men? Again, dispensable (in their minds).

I think there's also worry of payback. George Lopez did a funny routine once about POTUS & minoroties being in charge. He ended with, "Don't worry, we'll treat you just as well as you've treated us!" Heh.

Yes, exactly.

If you ever listen to the interviews of Klansmen or unrepentant Nazis, the refrain about Blacks or Jews going too far comes up over and over.

Too far always means doing the same jobs better.

83 Lidane  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 7:01:36pm

re: #81 LudwigVanQuixote

I think that is another important piece. Fascists are not known for their ability to bend rules in light of circumstances or be compassionate.

Case in point:

Tea Party Group Jokes About Beating Obama To Death

84 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 7:03:47pm

re: #80 CuriousLurker

George Lopez did a funny routine once about POTUS & minoroties being in charge. He ended with, "Don't worry, we'll treat you just as well as you've treated us!" Heh.

That's the terror that is at the root of a whole lot of the homophobia, too.

85 CuriousLurker  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 7:03:55pm

re: #76 LudwigVanQuixote

It is a giant correlation that has been very well written about.

Two views of God -

1. Loving, wants you to get along and strive to be better and overcome your base nature - you are expected to grow and be more like Him.

2. Hateful and full of vengeance against those who are less special than you - and all you had to do was just be you, not anything else.

Which is the view that someone who has basic self esteem and a capacity to embrace the world, even when it gets hard, would take?

Which is the view of the loser who needs to feel special by putting others down, or the loser who knows he can not compete?

There's a lot of comfort to be had in being part of a group that validates your ideas, reinforces your opinion that you & your group is better than "them", more deserving, more righteous. That cocoon very appealing to some people, even though it means the rest of the world is, by definition, a threat.

86 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 7:03:56pm

re: #83 Lidane

Case in point:

Tea Party Group Jokes About Beating Obama To Death

I am rendered ill.

I can just see trash yucking that one up between beer burps.

87 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 7:05:35pm

re: #83 Lidane

Case in point:

Tea Party Group Jokes About Beating Obama To Death

Overtly adapted, as well, from a joke about Bin Laden.

88 CuriousLurker  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 7:06:14pm

re: #83 Lidane

Case in point:

Tea Party Group Jokes About Beating Obama To Death

Ugh.

89 jamesfirecat  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 7:06:50pm

re: #83 Lidane

Case in point:

Tea Party Group Jokes About Beating Obama To Death

Wow... the really sad thing is that this is basically a joke stolen from Robbin Williams (at least he's the one I've seen tell it) except he told it about Osama Bin Laden... who had doubtlessly met up with his 72 Virginians thanks to Barrack Obama....

90 palomino  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 7:07:01pm

Is Chris Christie the only Republican who has the decency call this stuff out for what it really is--a "bunch of crap"?

91 Lidane  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 7:07:56pm

re: #90 palomino

Is Chris Christie the only Republican who has the decency call this stuff out for what it really is--a "bunch of crap"?

Only when it suits his purposes. Christie is still a blowhard douche otherwise.

92 palomino  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 7:08:48pm

re: #89 jamesfirecat

Wow... the really sad thing is that this is basically a joke stolen from Robbin Williams (at least he's the one I've seen tell it) except he told it about Osama Bin Laden... who had doubtlessly met up with his 72 Virginians thanks to Barrack Obama....

Also sad is that the people who throw out these jokes really don't see much difference between Obama and Osama, and will never give our President the credit he deserves for making the call that got bin Laden.

93 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 7:10:28pm

re: #90 palomino

Is Chris Christie the only Republican who has the decency call this stuff out for what it really is--a "bunch of crap"?

That's not decency, that's gas pains overstimulating his vagus nerve.

94 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 7:11:44pm

re: #85 CuriousLurker

There's a lot of comfort to be had in being part of a group that validates your ideas, reinforces your opinion that you & your group is better than "them", more deserving, more righteous. That cocoon very appealing to some people, even though it means the rest of the world is, by definition, a threat.

Of course, that is why it works, that is why it is so important that the follower only follow and believe, they aren't expected to improve or draw a light on themselves. They are special just for being a believer, not a builder or thinker.

It is exactly the religious view of the weak minded and incapable. Obama was right when he talked about clinging to guns and religion.

It produced such a backlash because it hit the mark so directly.

He was also correct when he talked about all the things that teachers, and soldiers and police and public roads etc... have done for us, and that no, you didn't build anything on your own. A religious person, one who actually believes in the first type of God, the loving one that expects you to do things, knows that God runs the show and would say we did nothing on our own.

The backlash against "you didn't build that" is again because it hits much too close to the mark. People know how little they actually accomplish.

Calling Romney successful is a joke. If anyone were born with that inheritance, it would be hard not to be rich. He didn't earn that, or the connections and access his birth gave him.

But you can't point that out. Contrary to being a religious man, he thinks he did that and God did nothing.

Pointing it out to the GOP base is even worse, because, they really have never done anything, save be ignorant and confused by a world that scares them.

95 palomino  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 7:15:14pm

re: #91 Lidane

Only when it suits his purposes. Christie is still a blowhard douche otherwise.

Oh, I agree. But that's really the point. Christie is the ONLY gop leader who ever tries to openly tamp down rampant Islamophobia and sharia paranoia. Thus, the "blowhard douche" is actually more reasonable on this issue than anyone else in his whole party.

I can't see a guy with an unfiltered big mouth like Christie surviving the rigors of a long presidential campaign. He clearly lacks discipline in a number of ways, and has the kind of volatile temperament you don't really want in a president.

96 CuriousLurker  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 7:17:20pm
97 sagehen  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 7:18:19pm

re: #4 Kragar

Paving the way because he's passive on the matter. Using that logic, I am paving the way for the undersea amphibious lemur people to take over the world because I'm taking no action to stop them.

I, for one, welcome our undersea amphibious lemur overlords.

98 palomino  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 7:18:58pm

re: #93 goddamnedfrank

That's not decency, that's gas pains overstimulating his vagus nerve.

That's why I don't see him as a viable presidential candidate. To put it bluntly he has obesity related health problems that would make a long demanding campaign very difficult. And a seemingly uncontrollable mouth that would turn too many people off. Some would say it's shallow, but there are certain things Americans don't like in their presidential candidates: fat, ugly, loud and insulting are some of those things.

99 theheat  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 7:21:54pm

re: #96 CuriousLurker

So it wasn't an electrical mishap - it was calculated arson. Pretty much, we knew it. I'm glad now there's a face to go with the act.

100 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 7:23:07pm

re: #98 palomino

That's why I don't see him as a viable presidential candidate. To put it bluntly he has obesity related health problems that would make a long demanding campaign very difficult. And a seemingly uncontrollable mouth that would turn too many people off. Some would say it's shallow, but there are certain things Americans don't like in their presidential candidates: fat, ugly, loud and insulting are some of those things.

I dunno... A lot of favourites on the right are pretty obese.

I strongly think that Rush hates women so much out of jealousy. After all, half of American women still have bigger breasts than him.

101 CuriousLurker  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 7:23:17pm

re: #99 theheat

So it wasn't an electrical mishap - it was calculated arson. Pretty much, we knew it. I'm glad now there's a face to go with the act.

Well, that was the first one, form July 4. Not sure about the recent one, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's the same guy, and doubtless arson.

102 theheat  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 7:25:06pm

re: #101 CuriousLurker

Who says it's only one guy?! This may have been a group of babyklukkers, and he was the one tapped to set the fire.

You know damned well somebody knows who he is. It isn't a perfect video, but he should look familiar to someone.

103 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 7:27:42pm

re: #93 goddamnedfrank

That's not decency, that's gas pains overstimulating his vagus nerve.

Genius... I love this board because you get things like plithy references to flatulence induced vaso-vagal reactions.

104 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 7:28:21pm

re: #33 CuriousLurker

Scary Jew Shadows got nothin' on Scary Niqabi Silhouettes. //

On a more serious note, I've been saying for months that I've been seeing this coming—it wasn't a matter of if, it was a matter of when.

Tag, we're "IT".

I guess the wingnuts aren't going be happy until their fear mongering results in dead American Muslim men, women, and children being put in body bags. It's just a matter of time if this escalates. I wonder how many innocents would have to die to even the score for 9/11 in some people's minds...

Come North.
Canada is mostly empty space.

105 Charles Johnson  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 7:29:03pm
106 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 7:29:41pm

re: #104 b_sharp

Come North.
Canada is mostly empty space.

I am actively looking at some science gigs in Canada in case, God forbid, Romney becomes president.

107 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 7:31:31pm

re: #39 Lidane

Of course he did. They were foreign looking, dark skinned, and wore turbans. Clearly, they were Muslims. =P

No one has ever accused a neo-Nazi of being smart.

It simply may not matter to them whether the targets of their bigotry are Muslim, Sikh, Hindi, or any other not-white.

108 CuriousLurker  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 7:31:37pm

re: #102 theheat

Who says it's only one guy?! This may have been a group of babyklukkers, and he was the one tapped to set the fire.

You know damned well somebody knows who he is. It isn't a perfect video, but he should look familiar to someone.

Could be; wouldn't surprise me. I hope someone ID's the cretin.

109 Charles Johnson  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 7:32:01pm

(If you notice the Twitter counter going wild on this post, it's because of the retweet from Roger Ebert.)

110 CuriousLurker  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 7:33:09pm

re: #104 b_sharp

Come North.
Canada is mostly empty space.

Heh, thanks, but I'm staying. Just to spite 'em if nothing else.

111 CuriousLurker  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 7:34:07pm

re: #109 Charles Johnson

(If you notice the Twitter counter going wild on this post, it's because of the retweet from Roger Ebert.)

Wow. Thanks Mr. Ebert.

112 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 7:37:02pm

Well I never got that close to sweeping the bottom comments before. Fortunately, mostly just 1 down each.

113 Interesting Times  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 7:37:41pm
114 bratwurst  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 7:38:18pm
115 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 7:38:33pm

re: #70 SanFranciscoZionist

The difference is that Australopithecus, I reckon, didn't despise the lion. He was scared of it, yes, but his identity wasn't based on being better than the lion.

And he was genuinely aware that it could eat him. A lion ate his Uncle Grok. It was a reasonable fear, based on evidence.

Thinking that sharia is taking over America, or that blacks will riot and rape white women if they get to vote...that's more complicated. I don't think that folks who claim those fears are entirely cynically faking, but I also don't think they really expect such things to happen, if that makes any sense.

Uncle Grok? Oh, no.
Man, that's awful.
He used to tell the best gorilla jokes.

116 erik_t  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 7:39:50pm

re: #109 Charles Johnson

(If you notice the Twitter counter going wild on this post, it's because of the retweet from Roger Ebert.)

IRRELEVANT.

117 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 7:40:24pm

re: #113 Interesting Times

[Embedded content]

No I think just corralling them all in Texas, after air lifting out the civilized folks around Austin and Houston would be just fine.

They can all pray for rain together.

118 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 7:43:42pm

re: #113 Interesting Times

[Embedded content]

And seriously... follow what Rick Perry ran on, not what he says now when he demands federal disaster relief money for the drought.

No Federal relief money for Texas. They voted for denying climate, let em' live with it, like the good, hard working, don't ask for nothing from no-one teabags they are, for a while.

119 CuriousLurker  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 7:44:17pm

re: #112 Daniel Ballard

Well I never got that close to sweeping the bottom comments before. Fortunately, mostly just 1 down each.

Dang, what'd you do? I missed it. Don't answer that; I'll go back later and see. Don't take the dings to heart. Everyone knows you're a decent guy, things just get really heated sometimes.

120 allegro  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 7:44:30pm

Oh, man, there was a story on the local news about a family that moved away and left their dog behind in the back yard. A neighbor heard the crying for a couple of nights and let her out. The poor Chow has been lying by the front door since crying and waiting for it to open. The neighbors are feeding her and hoping someone will adopt her, heartbroken watching her every day and night. They don't want to call animal control knowing she'll most likely be put down. What kind of sick fucks move and leave their dog behind?

Hoping the newscast finds her a new home with someone who understands Chows. This kind of shit makes me livid.

121 Interesting Times  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 7:44:43pm

re: #117 LudwigVanQuixote

No I think just corralling them all in Texas, after air lifting out the civilized folks around Austin and Houston would be just fine.

They can all pray for rain together.

[naturally, what I'd like to say about Dumbkopf Inhofe right about now would run afoul of site rules]

122 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 7:44:48pm

Another legal scholar weighs in on Romney's responsibility for what went down at Bain:

"Understandably, many people find it hard to believe Romney's claims that he was not responsible for a company over which he had complete control and from which he profited mightily," says Westbrook.

"But he says that despite the confusion and obfuscation, "Delaware law is clear in this matter. Corporate directors and managers must fulfill their fiduciary duties of care and oversight; that is, those who hold those offices are responsible for the management of the company.

"One cannot evade such responsibility by simply saying, as Romney has, that other people were in fact running the company during the period," Westbrook says.

"By way of analogy, a captain of a ship cannot evade responsibility for a wreck by saying "I let somebody else steer." Somebody else may have been steering; the captain is still responsible.

123 CuriousLurker  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 7:46:59pm

re: #120 allegro

Oh, man, there was a story on the local news about a family that moved away and left their dog behind in the back yard. A neighbor heard the crying for a couple of nights and let her out. The poor Chow has been lying by the front door since crying and waiting for it to open. The neighbors are feeding her and hoping someone will adopt her, heartbroken watching her every day and night. They don't want to call animal control knowing she'll most likely be put down. What kind of sick fucks move and leave their dog behind?

Hoping the newscast finds her a new home with someone who understands Chows. This kind of shit makes me livid.

Ditto. What assholes.

124 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 7:47:09pm

re: #121 Interesting Times

[Embedded content]

[naturally, what I'd like to say about Dumbkopf Inhofe right about now would run afoul of site rules]

Utah is burning too. And I have run afoul of site rules over Inhofe.

The only justice in this, is that the reddest states will get hit the worst, first.

Of course, that really doesn't matter since by the time those twits take the science seriously, it will be too late for everyone else.

125 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 7:47:21pm

re: #112 Daniel Ballard

Well I never got that close to sweeping the bottom comments before. Fortunately, mostly just 1 down each.

We can do better if you want.
You just have to ask.

126 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 7:48:19pm

re: #120 allegro

Oh, man, there was a story on the local news about a family that moved away and left their dog behind in the back yard. A neighbor heard the crying for a couple of nights and let her out. The poor Chow has been lying by the front door since crying and waiting for it to open. The neighbors are feeding her and hoping someone will adopt her, heartbroken watching her every day and night. They don't want to call animal control knowing she'll most likely be put down. What kind of sick fucks move and leave their dog behind?

Hoping the newscast finds her a new home with someone who understands Chows. This kind of shit makes me livid.

Yeah. Me too. (hugs terrier) ...terrier not sure why there was such an outburst of attention, but pleased by it anyway...

127 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 7:48:19pm

re: #119 CuriousLurker

I find myself with a contrary view on the Reid thing. I'm fine with the honest disagreement which is what we have here. The number is unavailable but I'd guess I have a very low down ding to comment ratio.

128 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 7:49:42pm

re: #125 b_sharp

Heh, I'm sure I'm sometimes the beneficiary of forbearance and patience often enough as it is thanks.

129 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 7:50:04pm

re: #122 goddamnedfrank

Another legal scholar weighs in on Romney's responsibility for what went down at Bain:

That is a good post, but it astonishes me that we need a legal scholar to point out that the CEO and sole shareholder is actually responsible for his own company.

130 erik_t  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 7:50:23pm

re: #120 allegro

Oh, man, there was a story on the local news about a family that moved away and left their dog behind in the back yard. A neighbor heard the crying for a couple of nights and let her out. The poor Chow has been lying by the front door since crying and waiting for it to open. The neighbors are feeding her and hoping someone will adopt her, heartbroken watching her every day and night. They don't want to call animal control knowing she'll most likely be put down. What kind of sick fucks move and leave their dog behind?

Hoping the newscast finds her a new home with someone who understands Chows. This kind of shit makes me livid.

That's how I got my cat. She was found with her kittens in a foreclosed home.

131 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 7:52:28pm

re: #120 allegro

Shame on them. D_L and I have overseen the adoptions of several cats from our apartment building over the years. One to her parents so we get to see Romeo from time to time. 10 years already. We have one that we took in after the poor lady died in a hiking accident, rest her sweet soul.

132 allegro  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 7:52:34pm

re: #130 erik_t

That's how I got my cat. She was found with her kittens in a foreclosed home.

It's how I got my Buddy, too. He was dumped here almost two years ago. Took me 4 days to get him inside. He's a totally loving and trusting little guy - he was loyally waiting for his former people to come back for him.

133 Lidane  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 7:52:47pm

re: #118 LudwigVanQuixote

And seriously... follow what Rick Perry ran on, not what he says now when he demands federal disaster relief money for the drought.

No Federal relief money for Texas. They voted for denying climate, let em' live with it, like the good, hard working, don't ask for nothing from no-one teabags they are, for a while.

Speaking of Governor Goodhair, this happened:

Rick Perry Factors Into State Budget Obamacare Funds He Had Pledged To Reject

The sooner this man is out of the governor's office, the happier I'll be.

134 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 7:54:20pm

re: #133 Lidane

Speaking of Governor Goodhair, this happened:

Rick Perry Factors Into State Budget Obamacare Funds He Had Pledged To Reject

The sooner this man is out of the governor's office, the happier I'll be.

Dude seriously,

Get out of Texas. You do not want to be there after five more years of progressively worse droughts punctuated by a few years that were only "really bad". That is what is coming.

135 Interesting Times  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 7:54:30pm

Speaking of raging, fossil-fueled fires, anyone in the Richmond area? This doesn't sound good at all:

136 Mich-again  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 7:54:30pm

re: #129 LudwigVanQuixote

That is a good post, but it astonishes me that we need a legal scholar to point out that the CEO and sole shareholder is actually responsible for his own company.

Well you might have been able to pin him down with responsibility for what happened at Bain... But that was before he stepped into the time machine and retired retroactively. Everyone knows once you go back in time and change anything at all, it changes the whole future.

137 allegro  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 7:55:31pm

re: #133 Lidane

Speaking of Governor Goodhair, this happened:

Rick Perry Factors Into State Budget Obamacare Funds He Had Pledged To Reject

The sooner this man is out of the governor's office, the happier I'll be.

Me, too. As much as I like Bill White, I am intensely annoyed by his non-campaign the last election. It seems he rolled over without any fight at all.

138 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 7:55:36pm

re: #136 Mich-again

Well you might have been able to pin him down with responsibility for what happened at Bain... But that was before he stepped into the time machine and retired retroactively. Everyone knows once you go back in time and change anything at all, it changes the whole future.

Now if only he could etch-e-sketch away some other history - like going back 50 years and handing his dad a rubber.

139 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 7:56:13pm

re: #137 allegro

Again, I repeat,

Get out of Texas. You do not want to be there after five more years of progressively worse droughts punctuated by a few years that were only "really bad". That is what is coming.

140 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 7:56:19pm

re: #131 Daniel Ballard

Shame on them. D_L and I have overseen the adoptions of several cats from our apartment building over the years. One to her parents so we get to see Romeo from time to time. 10 years already. We have one that we took in after the poor lady died in a hiking accident, rest her sweet soul.

Although my mother owned a kennel with Shepherds and Shelties my wife and I have always rescued animals from the SPCA or the street.

141 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 7:57:09pm

re: #140 b_sharp

Although my mother owned a kennel with Shepherds and Shelties my wife and I have always rescued animals from the SPCA or the street.

My little guy was left as a puppy, in a box, at the door of the shelter.

Hugs terrier some more.

142 Interesting Times  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 7:57:15pm

re: #133 Lidane

re: #137 allegro

What are the odds goodhair could be replaced by someone even worse, e.g. raging teabag true-believer Ted Cruz?

143 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 7:57:51pm

re: #122 goddamnedfrank

In fact, that's such an obvious, common sense conclusion that I'm really left wondering what in the fuck the people at FactCheck were thinking in their contortionist attempts to absolve Romney of any responsibility. The only thing that makes any sense is that they want a horserace for ratings purposes. If they just came out and exposed the paucity of logic behind the position that a CEO, Chairman, sole stockholder and managing partner had nothing to do with decisions made by the company he owned then there would be no contest left. Romney would be exposed as the liar he is and everything would pretty much be over. Instead the fact checking websites realized that an entire population of ridiculous morons exist who have outsourced their critical thinking skills to them and they chose to abuse the trust that was placed in them. They sold their souls for the sake of continued page hits and ad revenue.

144 Mocking Jay  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 7:58:02pm

re: #135 Interesting Times

Speaking of raging, fossil-fueled fires, anyone in the Richmond area? This doesn't sound good at all:

[Embedded content]

Heh. I was about to call a friend who lives in Richmond VA. Yay me for reading the article first. :D

145 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 7:58:28pm

re: #135 Interesting Times

Speaking of raging, fossil-fueled fires, anyone in the Richmond area? This doesn't sound good at all:

[Embedded content]

Yeah, my building manager just came by to tell everyone to shut the windows.

146 danarchy  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 7:59:22pm

re: #138 LudwigVanQuixote

Now if only he could etch-e-sketch away some other history - like going back 50 years and handing his dad a rubber.

That wouldn't accomplish much as Mitt was already 15 50 years ago...

147 allegro  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 7:59:40pm

re: #142 Interesting Times

re: #137 allegro

What are the odds goodhair could be replaced by someone even worse, e.g. raging teabag true-believer Ted Cruz?

Oh good god, I wanted to sleep tonight. Thanks a lot for the nightmare!

//

148 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 7:59:58pm

re: #145 SanFranciscoZionist

Yeah, my building manager just came by to tell everyone to shut the windows.

I thought you were in San Fran... Welcome to the east coast...

149 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:00:07pm

re: #135 Interesting Times

Speaking of raging, fossil-fueled fires, anyone in the Richmond area? This doesn't sound good at all:

[Embedded content]

The Richmond BART station is closed.

150 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:00:58pm

re: #146 danarchy

That wouldn't accomplish much as Mitt was already 15 50 years ago...

I stand corrected....

I really didn't think he was 65. Oh well.

Fine - call it a vasectomy 70 years ago just to be safe.

151 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:01:01pm

re: #148 LudwigVanQuixote

I thought you were in San Fran... Welcome to the east coast...

Richmond CA. Unless VA is also having a refinery fire right now.

152 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:01:12pm

re: #141 LudwigVanQuixote

All 3 of our cats are rescues. 1 as explained, another from the ventilation ducts and false ceiling of the California Jewelry Mart, and one from a shelter, our young Maine coon female. I see no reason to use any other source than rescue for my four footed friends. The Cal Mart was hilarious if it were not so dangerous for her. Kitten mews from an invisible source was pretty distracting in that building for a week or so.

153 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:01:28pm

re: #2 Targetpractice

And somewhere in the darker corner of the afterlife, Joe McCarthy looks on with a smile as his ideological descendants take up the torch.

Honestly, I think that Michelle Bachmann would have given McCarthy a fright with her anti-Catholicism. McCarthy also would not have liked Fox Nation's race baiting, since the African American populations of Milwaukee and Green Bay supported him electorally.

154 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:01:43pm

re: #148 LudwigVanQuixote

I thought you were in San Fran... Welcome to the east coast...

Fire Erupts at Richmond, Calif., Refinery

Shit. That's bad.

155 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:02:03pm

re: #151 SanFranciscoZionist

Richmond CA. Unless VA is also having a refinery fire right now.

Ahhh saw VA above... just read article. All un-confused now.

156 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:02:41pm

re: #154 goddamnedfrank

Fire Erupts at Richmond, Calif., Refinery

Shit. That's bad.

The good news is that the explosion was in the part of the plant that's fully automated, and all personnel have been accounted for.

157 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:03:11pm

re: #142 Interesting Times

re: #137 allegro

What are the odds goodhair could be replaced by someone even worse, e.g. raging teabag true-believer Ted Cruz?

It's very likely. Cruz defeated the Perry-backed establishment candidate, long-time Lt/governor David Dewhurst. The latter is, himself, a bat guano tea party devotee by sane-world standards, just somewhat more tolerant of the opposition. The kind of nuts who produced the notorious Lubbock County Republican platform ("One nation, one language, one loyalty") are the real future of the party here.

158 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:05:19pm

re: #152 Daniel Ballard

All 3 of our cats are rescues. 1 as explained, another from the ventilation ducts and false ceiling of the California Jewelry Mart, and one from a shelter, our young Maine coon female. I see no reason to use any other source than rescue for my four footed friends. The Cal Mart was hilarious if it were not so dangerous for her. Kitten mews from an invisible source was pretty distracting in that building for a week or so.

All of the pet stores here have pledged to sell only animals from the local animal shelter. That and a concerted effort by the Humane Society to shut down pet mills is having a positive affect on the number of euthanized animals.

159 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:06:52pm

re: #153 Dark_Falcon

Honestly, I think that Michelle Bachmann would have given McCarthy a fright with her anti-Catholicism. McCarthy also would not have liked Fox Nation's race baiting, since the African American populations of Milwaukee and Green Bay supported him electorally.

In addition, there were actual communists around in those days (though McCarthy had no clue who they really were or what they were doing). Today's boogeymen, shariah law and Muslim rule in the US, are complete fantasies.

160 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:07:06pm

re: #156 SanFranciscoZionist

The good news is that the explosion was in the part of the plant that's fully automated, and all personnel have been accounted for.

The bad news is that the sky is filling up with choking, poisonous smoke, and on a more personal note, it's kind of warm in here with the windows closed as we do our Shelter In Place Routine.

161 allegro  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:08:17pm

re: #157 Shiplord Kirel

It's very likely. Cruz defeated the Perry-backed establishment candidate, long-time Lt/governor David Dewhurst. The latter is, himself, a bat guano tea party devotee by sane-world standards, just somewhat more tolerant of the opposition. The kind of nuts who produced the notorious Lubbock County Republican platform ("One nation, one language, one loyalty") are the real future of the party here.

That's harder for me to see from what is a wildly liberal (for Texas) city with a popular lesbian Mayor. Last time I saw Annise I pleaded with her to run for governor. She laughed and laughed... so OK, how about President in 2016? She'd be wonderful.

162 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:10:09pm

re: #160 SanFranciscoZionist

The bad news is that the sky is filling up with choking, poisonous smoke, and on a more personal note, it's kind of warm in here with the windows closed as we do our Shelter In Place Routine.

If you can get to a lower floor, it would be better, also, running the shower (cold water) and sitting in the bathroom, door closed will help, water vapor will take some of the crap out of the air.

163 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:12:23pm

re: #159 Shiplord Kirel

In addition, there were actual communists around in those days (though McCarthy had no clue who they really were or what they were doing). Today's boogeymen, shariah law and Muslim rule in the US, are complete fantasies.

Exactly. At the very least, you could say that Joe McCarthy had paid his dues to the nation via his service in WWII (even though as a sitting judge he was exempt from conscription), named a real threat as his enemy, and wasn't a racist. Bachmann can claim none of these things.

This is not to suggest McCarthyism was a good thing, of course. I was simply pointing out that Michelle Bachmann makes Joseph McCarthy look good.

164 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:14:31pm

re: #162 LudwigVanQuixote

If you can get to a lower floor, it would be better, also, running the shower (cold water) and sitting in the bathroom, door closed will help, water vapor will take some of the crap out of the air.

I'm a couple of towns away, so we're not even quite included yet in the Shelter Warning. The building manager is just being cautious, which makes sense, since it seems to be coming our way.

Thanks for the info, if we run into problems we can try that. We're on the second floor. Doubt we'll have huge difficulty. No one in the house is asthmatic, that's a blessing.

165 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:14:43pm

I think:

flatulence induced vaso-vagal reactions

should become a meme for Republicans.

166 CuriousLurker  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:15:02pm

re: #161 allegro

That's harder for me to see from what is a wildly liberal (for Texas) city with a popular lesbian Mayor. Last time I saw Annise I pleaded with her to run for governor. She laughed and laughed... so OK, how about President in 2016? She'd be wonderful.

I hail from a decidedly less liberal part of Texas, so I don't have as hard a time seeing it. Man, am I ever glad I got the hell out of there when I did. I'll take fat, rude, loud-mouthed, overly aggressive Yankee Republicans over the TP/Evangelical/Texas good ol' boy variety any day.

167 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:15:07pm

re: #135 Interesting Times

Speaking of raging, fossil-fueled fires, anyone in the Richmond area? This doesn't sound good at all:

[Embedded content]

Shoot, just emailed a friend, he's OK.

168 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:15:38pm

re: #164 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm a couple of towns away, so we're not even quite included yet in the Shelter Warning. The building manager is just being cautious, which makes sense, since it seems to be coming our way.

Thanks for the info, if we run into problems we can try that. We're on the second floor. Doubt we'll have huge difficulty. No one in the house is asthmatic, that's a blessing.

NP...

Physics is to serve.

169 CuriousLurker  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:17:02pm

re: #164 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm a couple of towns away, so we're not even quite included yet in the Shelter Warning. The building manager is just being cautious, which makes sense, since it seems to be coming our way.

Thanks for the info, if we run into problems we can try that. We're on the second floor. Doubt we'll have huge difficulty. No one in the house is asthmatic, that's a blessing.

Be safe. Don't take any chances.

170 Big Joe  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:17:04pm

re: #135 Interesting Times

Speaking of raging, fossil-fueled fires, anyone in the Richmond area? This doesn't sound good at all:

[Embedded content]

I'm east of Richmond. I can see smoke in every direction, thickest to the west.

171 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:18:17pm

re: #163 Dark_Falcon

Exactly. At the very least, you could say that Joe McCarthy had paid his dues to the nation via his service in WWII (even though as a sitting judge he was exempt from conscription), named a real threat as his enemy, and wasn't a racist. Bachmann can claim none of these things.

This is not to suggest McCarthyism was a good thing, of course. I was simply pointing out that Michelle Bachmann makes Joseph McCarthy look good.

Rather reminds me of the attempts to equate Dubya with Nixon. I thought that was unfair, unfair to Nixon that is.
If he were in office today, he would have already been to Tehran, where he would have grabbed half the oil and all the nukes, pilfered the palace silverware, and left Ahmedinejad happy and pleased to have been of service.

172 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:18:39pm

Normally I save the celebrity stuff till later, but with SFZ and Ludwig around this is likely the best time for this tonight:

White swan: First look at Natalie Portman's intimate Jewish ceremony with choreographer Benjamin Millepied

The only thing that averted attention from Natalie Portman's beautiful wedding dress, was the Cheshire cat grin painted on her face during the starlit marriage ceremony to Benjamin Millepied.

The Black Swan actress couldn't stop smiling as she was pictured dancing with her new husband and walking around the grounds of the private residence in the Californian coastal town of Big Sur.

Her elegant Rodarte gown was a stunning yet simple choice, modest with a high neckline, together with a tea-length cocktail hemline and sheer, full-length sleeves.

173 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:18:41pm

Must work tomorrow...

So must sign off.

Be well all.

174 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:19:36pm

The refinery is Richmond's biggest employer, and that's in a town that doesn't have a whole hell of a lot. But they do periodically have issues with fires and other fume-producing mishaps. Mixed blessing. When I taught in Richmond, we drilled closing the windows every Wednesday at eleven when the sirens went off, and apparently once before I got there, there was a bad enough alert that they called all the kids into the gym and started calling parents to come and get them.

175 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:19:37pm

re: #171 Shiplord Kirel

Rather reminds me of the attempts to equate Dubya with Nixon. I thought that was unfair, unfair to Nixon that is.
If he were in office today, he would have already been to Tehran, where he would have grabbed half the oil and all the nukes, pilfered the palace silverware, and left Ahmedinejad happy and pleased to have been of service.

Huh?

176 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:19:41pm

re: #172 Dark_Falcon

Normally I save the celebrity stuff till later, but with SFZ and Ludwig around this is likely the best time for this tonight:

White swan: First look at Natalie Portman's intimate Jewish ceremony with choreographer Benjamin Millepied

After she dumped her long term BF for her choreographer, she lost credit in my eyes.

177 CuriousLurker  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:19:48pm

Time for me to call it a night too. Be safe everyone. And don't down-ding RWC for at least 24 hours please, heh. ;)

178 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:20:27pm

re: #176 LudwigVanQuixote

After she dumper her BF for her choreographer, she lost credit in my eyes.

Sorry, I didn't know you felt that way.

179 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:21:19pm

re: #178 Dark_Falcon

Sorry, I didn't know you felt that way.

It's all good man.

Be well, and always good to see you... but I truly must get to bed.

180 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:22:24pm

re: #169 CuriousLurker

Be safe. Don't take any chances.

We're good. Food in the fridge, settled in for the night. And we're a few miles off. We've got the TV on. If we need to do anything extraordinary, they'll let us know.

181 Killgore Trout  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:22:29pm

re: #177 CuriousLurker

Time for me to call it a night too. Be safe everyone. And don't down-ding RWC for at least 24 hours please, heh. ;)

C'mon. The bottom comments list is where all the good stuff is at anyways.

182 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:22:52pm

re: #175 Dark_Falcon

Huh?

I'm talking about Nixon's Machiavellian diplomatic skills, in contrast to Mr. Bush's somewhat lesser proficiency in that area.

183 allegro  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:22:56pm

re: #172 Dark_Falcon

Normally I save the celebrity stuff till later, but with SFZ and Ludwig around this is likely the best time for this tonight:

White swan: First look at Natalie Portman's intimate Jewish ceremony with choreographer Benjamin Millepied

For some reason a choreographer named Millipede Millipied is striking me as particularly humorous. Such images of multi-legged critters tripping the light fantastic.

184 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:24:40pm

re: #182 Shiplord Kirel

I'm talking about Nixon's Machiavellian diplomatic skills, in contrast to Mr. Bush's somewhat lesser proficiency in that area.

I see. I agree with you, though it should be noted that as president Nixon did also have Henry Kissinger as SecState, and he was a major force multiplier.

185 Killgore Trout  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:25:17pm

Been catching up on Breaking Bad. Excellent series. One of the things the writers have right is the female roles and love stories. They actually work with the story instead of being superfluous add ons in a lame attempt to appeal to a family audience.

186 prairiefire  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:26:11pm

Powerful females. Like, duh.

187 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:27:07pm

re: #184 Dark_Falcon

I see. I agree with you, though it should be noted that as president Nixon did also have Henry Kissinger as SecState, and he was a major force multiplier.

It's scary that our negative icons in this society, people like McCarthy and Nixon, were actually not as bad in many respects as the current leaders who are being compared to them.

188 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:27:55pm

re: #186 prairiefire

Powerful females. Like, duh.

Yes, we're scary sometimes!
*waves*

189 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:28:31pm

re: #187 Shiplord Kirel

It's scary that our negative icons in this society, people like McCarthy and Nixon, were actually not as bad in many respects as the current leaders who are being compared to them.

They were, at least, serious men of substance who fell prey to evil urges.

Now we've got frivolous people with no intellect or ability, who fall prey to evil urges.

190 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:30:22pm

re: #160 SanFranciscoZionist

The bad news is that the sky is filling up with choking, poisonous smoke, and on a more personal note, it's kind of warm in here with the windows closed as we do our Shelter In Place Routine.

You are close, eh? hang tight.

191 Lidane  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:30:41pm

re: #142 Interesting Times

re: #137 allegro

What are the odds goodhair could be replaced by someone even worse, e.g. raging teabag true-believer Ted Cruz?

Considering the stranglehold that the GOP has on this state? Very high.

I've got a lot of job applications outside of Texas right now. Hell, even if I get a job here IN Texas I'm still going to be sending out feelers for work elsewhere. I have always loved this state, but ever since Ann Richards and Molly Ivins died, it's gone downhill politically.

192 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:32:01pm

re: #190 Stanley Sea

You are close, eh? hang tight.

We're five or six miles away, to the south. So far, we can see the plume going up, but that's about it. May not even get here, depending on the wind.

193 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:33:05pm

re: #192 SanFranciscoZionist

We're five or six miles away, to the south. So far, we can see the plume going up, but that's about it. May not even get here, depending on the wind.

Wow.

194 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:34:46pm

Seriously love these guys

195 dragonath  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:34:53pm

The Pittsburgh Pirates just won thier 62nd game, which means they have averted a 20th straight losing season.

196 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:35:56pm

re: #193 Stanley Sea

Wow.

It's kind of interesting. We moved out here about six, seven years ago. I grew up in San Francisco, and I don't think I even knew there WAS a Chevron refinery in the Bay Area. Now it's like this thing in the neighborhood. Everyone's pipe-smoking, explosive rich uncle.

197 prairiefire  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:36:15pm

re: #190 Stanley Sea

You are close, eh? hang tight.

OMFG, SFZ.

198 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:37:03pm
199 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:37:47pm

re: #196 SanFranciscoZionist

Yes, but Richmond is like the wrong side of the tracks, not as bad as parts of Oakland, but far from well to do, from what I saw last weekend!

200 Killgore Trout  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:38:10pm

re: #186 prairiefire

Powerful females. Like, duh.

It's not even about being "powerful", for me it's just about doing something believable. Ridley, from the Alien series, was a powerful character but was interesting, believable and uniquely female. Not just a male character transposed to a female actor. One of the greatest problems with Walking Dead for me is the female characters who sit around the farmhouse gossiping and serve as dramatic foils when they need rescuing. Breaking bad has the female characters doing things not just props for the male characters to rescue.

201 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:38:25pm

The El Cerrito Del Norte BART Station, which is our nearest one, is now closed too. And people in the North Oakland Hills are being told to close windows. Don't think that has EVER happened. The toll takers on the Richmond-San Rafael bridge have vacated, so no tolls tonight.

202 Gus  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:39:00pm

re: #198 Stanley Sea

[Embedded content]

Bowling team!

//

203 prairiefire  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:39:04pm

re: #192 SanFranciscoZionist

We're five or six miles away, to the south. So far, we can see the plume going up, but that's about it. May not even get here, depending on the wind.

Six miles away is still very serious, depending on the wind. Take care, SFZ!

204 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:39:24pm

Lucid commentary from Forbes:

This is just an observation, based on some years covering politics and campaigns as a journalist, and then following it as an increasingly alarmed observer: there is something very odd about Mitt Romney’s campaign. Something that we haven’t seen before. That oddness is its absence. Beneath all the commercials and messaging, the campaign is a series of voids, missing information about the candidate himself, his background, and his proposals.

...

Start first of all with his tenure as governor of Massachusetts. Romney doesn’t want to talk much about his signature accomplishment, health care reform with an individual mandate, because it is the model for Obamacare, which he wants to repeal and which the GOP base abhors. Similarly, the temporizing about when Romney left Bain (before or after it started pursuing an aggressive offshoring strategy), is an attempt to erase responsibility for that strategy from his record. So Romney doesn’t want to talk about Bain either. (I’ve written on how Romney’s “capitalism is good” message avoids even acknowledging the course that American capitalism has taken in the past generation, which helped him build his fortune but was hardly an unalloyed good for the nation.) Then, of course, there is the matter of Romney’s tax returns, another informational void into which Democrats can pour any kind of speculation.

This is probably the most important point, that in continuing to hide from his own record and seeking to encipher his past Romney his deliberately hobbling his own campaign. Any rational observer would look at this kind of behavior and see red flags all over the field with regards to personal and professional integrity, ethics and ability to lead. The only plausible explanation for him being the nominee is the perception that it was somehow "his turn" combined with the extremely rancid quality of his competition during the Republican primaries.

If Republicans understood integrity or had any penchant for long term strategic thinking they'd be demanding en masse that he release his tax returns immediately. Instead, because they're so fixated on their inexplicable hatred of Obama they're fine with turning a blind eye to the massive deficiencies in their weak, almost intrinsically unlikeable candidate.

205 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:39:34pm

re: #196 SanFranciscoZionist

It's kind of interesting. We moved out here about six, seven years ago. I grew up in San Francisco, and I don't think I even knew there WAS a Chevron refinery in the Bay Area. Now it's like this thing in the neighborhood. Everyone's pipe-smoking, explosive rich uncle.

They hide those things. Like the San Onofre nuclear plant near me, that's now shut down due to fuck ups. Technology is great, but never underestimate the ability of the fuck up(s)

206 Gus  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:40:12pm
207 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:40:20pm

re: #197 prairiefire

OMFG, SFZ.

Windows are closed. So far, not a big thing. I do have work in the morning, just down on the corner. Wonder if anyone will show up.

208 danarchy  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:41:01pm

re: #195 Fred Galt

The Pittsburgh Pirates just won thier 62nd game, which means they have averted a 20th straight losing season.

Aren't there a 162 games in the season?

209 prairiefire  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:41:32pm

re: #200 Killgore Trout

What about reciprocating for the female elders in your life? The musicians? A floral bouquet as a gift, perhaps.

210 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:42:00pm

re: #199 Dancing along the light of day

Yes, but Richmond is like the wrong side of the tracks, not as bad as parts of Oakland, but far from well to do, from what I saw last weekend!

Blue-collar town with a very high murder rate jacked up by a couple of very bad neighborhoods. The Iron Triangle is as bad as anything in East Oakland, but Richmond is mostly just down on its luck. Unfortunately, it's been down on its luck pretty much since the end of the Second World War.

211 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:42:20pm

re: #207 SanFranciscoZionist

Only if they don't need BART. I was in the El Cerrito Bart station last Sunday. It was seedy.

212 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:43:02pm

re: #202 Gus

Bowling team!

//

I AM IN LOVE

213 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:44:43pm

re: #211 Dancing along the light of day

Only if they don't need BART. I was in the El Cerrito Bart station last Sunday. It was seedy.

Plaza or Del Norte?

And yes, it's not exactly Orinda...but then, there's the Colosseum station in Oakland. Now that's seedy.

214 Gus  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:44:58pm

Billed for toll later?

215 Gus  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:45:19pm

Here's an idea. Send the "toll bill" to Chevron.

216 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:45:42pm

re: #206 Gus

[Embedded content]

H O L Y S H I T

217 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:46:03pm

re: #214 Gus

[Embedded content]

Billed for toll later?

Now that's new. The news just said they shut down the toll booths and got their personnel out of there.

218 Lidane  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:46:24pm

re: #215 Gus

Here's an idea. Send the "toll bill" to Chevron.

Seriously. It's not like they're hurting for cash or anything.

219 Gus  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:46:37pm

re: #216 Stanley Sea

H O L Y S H I T

Bigger image here.

220 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:47:27pm

wow

221 prairiefire  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:49:50pm

re: #211 Dancing along the light of day

Only if they don't need BART. I was in the El Cerrito Bart station last Sunday. It was seedy.

Now I'm going to wonder what you were doing there./

222 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:51:29pm

re: #219 Gus

Bigger image here.

My God.

223 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:51:48pm

Gas prices will be going up again because of this.

224 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:52:43pm

OK, give me your #

225 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:53:42pm

re: #210 SanFranciscoZionist

re: #221 prairiefire

He was cute....

226 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:54:18pm

re: #41 LudwigVanQuixote

That was first said by a pope about sorting Albegensians from Catholics.

Not a pope. Arnaud Amaury, the papal legate, according to a contemporary account.

227 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:54:59pm

re: #226 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne

Not a pope. Arnaud Amaury, the papal legate, according to a contemporary account.

I've also heard it credited to Simon de Montfort.

228 CriticalDragon1177  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:55:42pm

Charles Johnson

How much you want to bet they'll also claim that Obama is a "secret Muslim?" So glad neither of us are now a part of that stupid "Counter Jihad."

229 palomino  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:56:17pm

re: #153 Dark_Falcon

Honestly, I think that Michelle Bachmann would have given McCarthy a fright with her anti-Catholicism. McCarthy also would not have liked Fox Nation's race baiting, since the African American populations of Milwaukee and Green Bay supported him electorally.

I didn't realize McCarthy was a big supporter of civil rights for blacks. My recollection is that he and J. Edgar just loved targeting blacks and Jews for suspected commie sympathizing attitudes.

230 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:56:18pm

re: #227 SanFranciscoZionist

I've also heard it credited to Simon de Montfort.

Yeah, actually I remembered it as Simon de Montfort, but then I made the mistake of looking at Wikipedia.

231 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:57:51pm

re: #225 Dancing along the light of day

re: #221 prairiefire

He was cute....

whoop!

232 prairiefire  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:58:53pm

We went to cousin Dale's memorial today. My mom and I told his widow she was more than welcome to stay at my mom's. It is amazing, the change in a woman when her husband of 30 plus years is gone.

233 CriticalDragon1177  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:58:57pm

re: #105 Charles Johnson

You know I mentioned you and this story on Twitter

234 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:58:58pm

re: #213 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't remember, I had specific directions. It was the first time I ever took BART!

235 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:59:20pm

re: #232 prairiefire

((hugs))

236 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:59:29pm
237 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:59:47pm

re: #227 SanFranciscoZionist

I've also heard it credited to Simon de Montfort.

de Montfort would never have said that, he wasn't bloody minded in that way. But his opponent in his last campaign, Crown Price Edward (later Kind Edward I, and yes at 6'2" was also known as "Edward the Longshanks"), was the kind of man who would say that. And when his forces defeated de Montfort and killed him at Evesham, Edward's knights slaughtered Montfort's Welsh infantry almost to the man.

238 dragonath  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:00:17pm

re: #208 danarchy

Aren't there a 162 games in the season?

Hahaha, I guess this is what I get for staying up late, reading LGF. But they're 16 games above .500. Last year, they were 5 games down.

They've been winning only 60 games a season for the last 10 years so I guess that hideous number just jumped out at me.

239 palomino  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:00:34pm

re: #163 Dark_Falcon

Exactly. At the very least, you could say that Joe McCarthy had paid his dues to the nation via his service in WWII (even though as a sitting judge he was exempt from conscription), named a real threat as his enemy, and wasn't a racist. Bachmann can claim none of these things.

This is not to suggest McCarthyism was a good thing, of course. I was simply pointing out that Michelle Bachmann makes Joseph McCarthy look good.

Only if you have standards so low they'd fit under a worm's belly.

McCarthy did incalculable damage, and he was not in the least sincere...he was a self-promoting charlatan who didn't care who he destroyed. He was also a pathetic alcoholic (used to eat a stick of butter before drinking his daily bottle of whiskey because it helped him "hold his liquor better.") Why you would feel the need to compare him favorably to anyone I have no idea. He deserves nothing in the end but perpetual scorn.

240 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:01:56pm

OH YES. (the New Yorker always comes thru - please check out!)

241 aagcobb  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:04:33pm

re: #238 Fred Galt

Hahaha, I guess this is what I get for staying up late, reading LGF. But they're 16 games above .500. Last year, they were 5 games down.

They've been winning only 60 games a season for the last 10 years so I guess that hideous number just jumped out at me.

It seems to be the year of the small market teams, with the Pirates chasing the Reds, and the Nats leading the East.

242 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:04:53pm

re: #229 palomino

I didn't realize McCarthy was a big supporter of civil rights for blacks. My recollection is that he and J. Edgar just loved targeting blacks and Jews for suspected commie sympathizing attitudes.

J. Edgar Hoover did that, but he and McCarthy did not work together. At least one member of McCarthy's staff was black, and he actively courted black votes. Some of the (southern) Democrats on the committees dealing with matters of Communist infiltration (in addition to McCarthy's, there was also Sen Jenner's Internal Security Subcommittee) were in fact openly racist, and McCarthy used their misdeed to differentiate himself from them. But that was back in the early 1950's, long before the "Southern Strategy".

243 danarchy  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:06:17pm

re: #238 Fred Galt

Hahaha, I guess this is what I get for staying up late, reading LGF. But they're 16 games above .500. Last year, they were 5 games down.

They've been winning only 60 games a season for the last 10 years so I guess that hideous number just jumped out at me.

At 16 games over chances are they are gonna finish over .500

Wish I could say the same for the Red Sox. The way they are playing I sort of wish the season was closer to done.

244 Gus  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:06:27pm

Fire is at HAZMAT Level 3:

Level 3
Full Activation of
The DART Team

Incident involving the release of substantial quantities of hazardous materials, posing significant risk to public health and the environment, requiring major response Involving specialized public and private resources and technical assistance. Incident requires extended response and logistical support operations. Large-scale precautionary Evacuations and establishment of temporary shelter sites may be required.

245 Interesting Times  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:07:08pm

Michele Bachmann Thankful No Americans Died In Sikh Shooting

In response to the shooting death of six Sikh worshippers at a temple in Oak Creek, WI yesterday, Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-MN) offered a public expression of her thankfulness that no Americans had been killed in the rampage. "It's a relief and a blessing that not a single American died in this event," Bachmann said of the incident that claimed the lives of six Americans who practice the Sikh faith. "All of us can be grateful for that. Had the gunman targeted a church or synagogue, this violent act could have been much, much worse.

...so who had to check the URL to make sure?

246 Kragar  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:08:15pm

re: #205 Stanley Sea

They hide those things. Like the San Onofre nuclear plant near me, that's now shut down due to fuck ups. Technology is great, but never underestimate the ability of the fuck up(s)

SCIENCE!

How a Biotech Company Almost Killed The World (With Booze)

247 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:09:25pm

re: #245 Interesting Times

Michele Bachmann Thankful No Americans Died In Sikh Shooting

...so who had to check the URL to make sure?

totally did.

248 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:09:27pm

re: #245 Interesting Times

Michele Bachmann Thankful No Americans Died In Sikh Shooting

...so who had to check the URL to make sure?

I did. I can entirely believe she'd say something like that.

249 blueraven  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:09:55pm

Bobak Ferdowsi

"there were Internet things going on."

Image: enhanced-buzz-wide-8751-1344286401-16.jpg

250 palomino  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:10:58pm

re: #242 Dark_Falcon

J. Edgar Hoover did that, but he and McCarthy did not work together. At least one member of McCarthy's staff was black, and he actively courted black votes. Some of the (southern) Democrats on the committees dealing with matters of Communist infiltration (in addition to McCarthy's, there was also Sen Jenner's Internal Security Subcommittee) were in fact openly racist, and McCarthy used their misdeed to differentiate himself from them. But that was back in the early 1950's, long before the "Southern Strategy".

The black population of WI today is 6%. What do you think it was back in the 1950s? Almost certainly considerably less. So, to the extent that McCarthy cared about blacks, it was just for a few votes. "Actively courting black votes" doesn't mean shit other than he wanted to win elections.

The fact that he was less openly racist than some of his colleagues is hardly something to commend. Nor does it offset his other misdeeds. He was one of the most odious politicians in modern American history. Why you'd try to recuperate his image in the least I have no idea.

251 Gus  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:12:26pm

re: #245 Interesting Times

Michele Bachmann Thankful No Americans Died In Sikh Shooting

...so who had to check the URL to make sure?

Had me there for a second. She would say something that stupid.

252 aagcobb  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:12:29pm

re: #249 blueraven

Bobak Ferdowsi

Image: enhanced-buzz-wide-8751-1344286401-16.jpg

Cool photo of Mt. Sharp from Curiosity.

253 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:14:54pm

OK, I'm lazy to look this up, and obviously my science memory is short term, but my teabagger co-worker made a comment that we've already sent a thing to Mars, why are we trying again?

254 Kragar  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:15:58pm

re: #253 Stanley Sea

OK, I'm lazy to look this up, and obviously my science memory is short term, but my teabagger co-worker made a comment that we've already sent a thing to Mars, why are we trying again?

"Explore the New World? Why bother? Columbus already did it."

255 Interesting Times  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:16:19pm

re: #253 Stanley Sea

OK, I'm lazy to look this up, and obviously my science memory is short term, but my teabagger co-worker made a comment that we've already sent a thing to Mars, why are we trying again?

Tell him it's for scouting possible locations for the FEMA gulags.

256 erik_t  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:16:23pm

re: #253 Stanley Sea

OK, I'm lazy to look this up, and obviously my science memory is short term, but my teabagger co-worker made a comment that we've already sent a thing to Mars, why are we trying again?

Because SLAP SAY WHY ONE MORE TIME I DARE YOU I DOUBLE DARE YOU MOTHERFUCKER SAY WHY ONE MORE GODDAMN TIME

257 aagcobb  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:16:57pm

re: #253 Stanley Sea

OK, I'm lazy to look this up, and obviously my science memory is short term, but my teabagger co-worker made a comment that we've already sent a thing to Mars, why are we trying again?

Because its a big planet, and there is still a lot to learn, if you're not a brain dead tea bagger.

258 Lidane  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:19:47pm

re: #255 Interesting Times

Tell him it's for scouting possible locations for the FEMA gulags.

Can we send Alex Jones on the next expedition?

259 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:20:28pm

re: #253 Stanley Sea

OK, I'm lazy to look this up, and obviously my science memory is short term, but my teabagger co-worker made a comment that we've already sent a thing to Mars, why are we trying again?

It's a better thing.

260 freetoken  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:20:35pm

re: #253 Stanley Sea

OK, I'm lazy to look this up, and obviously my science memory is short term, but my teabagger co-worker made a comment that we've already sent a thing to Mars, why are we trying again?

The most important task, IMO, of Curiosity will be providing the data to understand the surface processes of Mars over billions of years. It will do this by sampling the rock through many layers as it makes its way from the lower parts of the crater up to somewhere in the middle of the side of the mountain inside the crater. On the mountain side is exposed geologic layers.

These layers will tell us how the surface of Mars changed in the past.

The onboard chemical analysis tools also will be able to detect signs of life, but as I strongly doubt there are any living things on the surface of Mars today, these results will come back null.

261 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:21:11pm

Ya, I got where he's coming from pretty quickly. I was SO EXCITED this am.

262 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:21:58pm

Do you suppose the moon is getting jealous of all the attention that Mars is getting?

263 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:21:58pm

Well gee, that was fun. Nothing quite like losing your internet to make you realize how much you rely upon it to maintain your sanity.

264 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:22:31pm

re: #250 palomino

I'm sort of drawn to complexity. I have made clear before that he cannot be considered to have had any lasting influence other than a profoundly negative one.

265 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:22:43pm

re: #260 freetoken

The onboard chemical analysis tools also will be able to detect signs of life, but as I strongly doubt there are any living things on the surface of Mars today, these results will come back null.

Oh ye of little faith. Marvin will yet prove you wrong.

266 freetoken  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:23:12pm

I should have prefaced my remarks with declaring the assumption that the Earth wasn't created ex nihilo in 4004BC, and that all the layers of sediments and volcanic rock we see, in say the Grand Canyon, were not laid down over a period of a couple of weeks.

Given that there are sediment layers on Mars, if the Grand Canyon was indeed created in a few weeks time, then the Flood on Earth also somehow created the layers on Mars... but that is something else to worry about.

267 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:23:27pm

re: #253 Stanley Sea

OK, I'm lazy to look this up, and obviously my science memory is short term, but my teabagger co-worker made a comment that we've already sent a thing to Mars, why are we trying again?

If our ancestors had that attitude, we would still be living in trees. Of course, 'baggers don't think our ancestors lived in trees and they do think the 18th century is a good model for the future, so this argument may not carry any weight with them.

268 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:23:47pm

Thanks for all the responses. I am prepared to debate tomorrow. Today I was just aghast that to him it wasn't a fucking cool as shit thing. (way younger than I - fucking privileged kids!)

269 erik_t  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:25:13pm

re: #256 erik_t

Youtube informs me I have botched the quote. Apologies all around.

270 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:25:15pm

re: #253 Stanley Sea

OK, I'm lazy to look this up, and obviously my science memory is short term, but my teabagger co-worker made a comment that we've already sent a thing to Mars, why are we trying again?

There have been several rovers sent up. They tend to come to the end of their working life after a while, since you can't update or repair them from here. Some run into problems--one of them simply got stuck, and continued to transmit, but can't be moved from where it bogged down.

So we send more, hoping to gather as much data as possible, and eventually, I suppose, to be able to send a manned mission.

Here, I looked 'em up:

The Soviets sent the two earliest.

1. Mars 2, Prop-M rover, 1971, landing failed.

2. Mars 3, Prop-M rover, 1971, communication failure after landing.

Mars 2 and 3 spacecraft from the USSR, had identical 4.5 kg Prop-M rovers. They were to move on skis while connected to the landers with cables. The Mars 2 rover crashed into the Martian surface. The Mars 3 lander stopped communicating about 20 seconds after landing. Mars 2 and Mars 3 both had companion orbiters which were successful.

The next was U.S.,

3. Sojourner rover, Mars Pathfinder, landed successfully on July 4, 1997. Communications were lost on September 27, 1997.

The U.K. sent

4. Beagle 2, Planetary Undersurface Tool, lost with Beagle 2 on deployment from Mars Express. A compressed spring mechanism was designed to enable to movement across the surface at a rate of 1 cm per 5 seconds and to burrow into the ground and collect a subsurface sample in a cavity in its tip.

The rest are ours:

6. Spirit (MER-A), Mars Exploration Rover, landed successfully on January 4, 2004. Nearly 6 years after the original mission limit, Spirit had covered a total distance of 7.73 km (4.80 mi) but its wheels became trapped in sand. Around January 26, 2010, NASA conceded defeat in its efforts to free the rover and stated that it would now function as a stationary science platform. The last communication received from the rover was on March 22, 2010 and NASA ceased attempts to re-establish communication on May 25, 2011.

7. Opportunity (MER-B), Mars Exploration Rover, landed successfully on January 25, 2004. Opportunity was still operating as of 2012, having surpassed the previous record for longevity of a surface mission to Mars on May 20, 2010.

8. Curiosity, Mars Science Laboratory, by NASA. It was launched November 26, 2011 at 10:02 EST[9][10] and landed in the Aeolis Palus plain near Aeolis Mons (formerly "Mount Sharp") in Gale Crater on August 6, 2012, 05:31 UTC.

271 prairiefire  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:25:18pm

re: #248 Dark_Falcon

I did. I can entirely believe she'd say something like that.

How come you just can't rely on what a politician says out of their mouth?

272 danarchy  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:25:40pm

re: #253 Stanley Sea

OK, I'm lazy to look this up, and obviously my science memory is short term, but my teabagger co-worker made a comment that we've already sent a thing to Mars, why are we trying again?

We've sent several "things" to mars. Each of these things build on what we've learned from the previous things. It's the difference between sending a photographer or geologist or a biologist or climatologist or chemist etc. Hopefully this is all just prep work for sending actual people.

273 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:26:27pm

re: #268 Stanley Sea

Thanks for all the responses. I am prepared to debate tomorrow. Today I was just aghast that to him it wasn't a fucking cool as shit thing. (way younger than I - fucking privileged kids!)

A young person? Ask him if he would pass up a date with a Maxim model simply because he has presumably already lost his virginity.

274 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:26:31pm

re: #267 Shiplord Kirel

If our ancestors had that attitude, we would still be living in trees. Of course, 'baggers don't think our ancestors lived in trees and they do think the 18th century is a good model for the future, so this argument may not carry any weight with them.

Which is weird, because the people of the eighteenth century were completely fascinated with science. Loved it.

275 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:27:29pm

re: #253 Stanley Sea

OK, I'm lazy to look this up, and obviously my science memory is short term, but my teabagger co-worker made a comment that we've already sent a thing to Mars, why are we trying again?

Ask him if he had a car in 1970. Then ask why he now has a newer car...

276 danarchy  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:27:46pm

re: #262 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Do you suppose the moon is getting jealous of all the attention that Mars is getting?

I think the chinese are planning moon missions.

277 freetoken  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:29:20pm

re: #204 goddamnedfrank

I look on it not as some sort of conspiracy of silence from Romney about his own past (btw, you can add his religion and his pastoral experience to that list he's not talking about), but rather a simple truth: It really was "his turn", but he's the wrong guy at the wrong time for the Party. The base wants a frothing wingnut, and Romney up until 2008 was cut out of the Bush wing of the Party.

278 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:29:40pm

re: #270 SanFranciscoZionist

Mostly it's also because, as our technology improves, we can be more ambitious with what we send. The Viking probes were stationary, Sojourner was mobile but limited in what it could do or how long it could survive, Spirit and Opportunity was still yoked to solar power that meant the dust storms got the better of the former, and now Curiosity is powered by a nuclear battery that ensures it will last a minimum of 2 years.

279 erik_t  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:30:11pm

re: #268 Stanley Sea

Thanks for all the responses. I am prepared to debate tomorrow. Today I was just aghast that to him it wasn't a fucking cool as shit thing. (way younger than I - fucking privileged kids!)

The real answer is because we don't always know where science will lead us. Curie sure didn't envision cheap clean nuclear power when she was fooling around with radon (or nuclear weapons that keep Iran at bay or whatever this moron wants to believe today). The Wrights never foresaw delivering a living human organ hundreds of miles in an hour or two to save a life. Mendel never expected to map the human genome and predict disease. The vast bulk of our planetary understanding is on a sample size of one. Who knows what another planet can teach us?

That and that filthy librul Kennedy's answer: because it's Mars, and because it's there.

280 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:31:18pm

re: #270 SanFranciscoZionist

There have been several rovers sent up. They tend to come to the end of their working life after a while, since you can't update or repair them from here. Some run into problems--one of them simply got stuck, and continued to transmit, but can't be moved from where it bogged down.

So we send more, hoping to gather as much data as possible, and eventually, I suppose, to be able to send a manned mission.

Here, I looked 'em up:

The Soviets sent the two earliest.

1. Mars 2, Prop-M rover, 1971, landing failed.

2. Mars 3, Prop-M rover, 1971, communication failure after landing.

Mars 2 and 3 spacecraft from the USSR, had identical 4.5 kg Prop-M rovers. They were to move on skis while connected to the landers with cables. The Mars 2 rover crashed into the Martian surface. The Mars 3 lander stopped communicating about 20 seconds after landing. Mars 2 and Mars 3 both had companion orbiters which were successful.

The next was U.S.,

3. Sojourner rover, Mars Pathfinder, landed successfully on July 4, 1997. Communications were lost on September 27, 1997.

The U.K. sent

4. Beagle 2, Planetary Undersurface Tool, lost with Beagle 2 on deployment from Mars Express. A compressed spring mechanism was designed to enable to movement across the surface at a rate of 1 cm per 5 seconds and to burrow into the ground and collect a subsurface sample in a cavity in its tip.

The rest are ours:

6. Spirit (MER-A), Mars Exploration Rover, landed successfully on January 4, 2004. Nearly 6 years after the original mission limit, Spirit had covered a total distance of 7.73 km (4.80 mi) but its wheels became trapped in sand. Around January 26, 2010, NASA conceded defeat in its efforts to free the rover and stated that it would now function as a stationary science platform. The last communication received from the rover was on March 22, 2010 and NASA ceased attempts to re-establish communication on May 25, 2011.

7. Opportunity (MER-B), Mars Exploration Rover, landed successfully on January 25, 2004. Opportunity was still operating as of 2012, having surpassed the previous record for longevity of a surface mission to Mars on May 20, 2010.

8. Curiosity, Mars Science Laboratory, by NASA. It was launched November 26, 2011 at 10:02 EST[9][10] and landed in the Aeolis Palus plain near Aeolis Mons (formerly "Mount Sharp") in Gale Crater on August 6, 2012, 05:31 UTC.

Thanks so much. Teach comes thru. Really, I saved this. Can't believe the pushback.

281 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:31:48pm

Now Richmond, El Cerrito Del Norte, El Cerrito Plaza and North Berkeley BART stations are all closed.

People are showing up with respiratory issues at the local hospitals.

282 jvic  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:32:05pm

re: #274 SanFranciscoZionist

Which is weird, because the people of the eighteenth century were completely fascinated with science. Loved it.

In the nineteenth there came Darwin and Dover Beach.

In the twentieth...hoo boy...

283 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:32:32pm

re: #273 Shiplord Kirel

A young person? Ask him if he would pass up a date with a Maxim model simply because he has presumably already lost his virginity.

oh yeah. Dude is toast.

284 freetoken  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:32:48pm

re: #265 Mostly sane, most of the time.

MP3 Audio
285 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:32:50pm

re: #280 Stanley Sea

Thanks so much. Teach comes thru. Really, I saved this. Can't believe the pushback.

If you don't get it, you just don't get it.

Kind of creeps me out. I mean, it's SPACE. We want to go to SPACE. How can this be something you have to argue about?

286 erik_t  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:34:08pm

re: #285 SanFranciscoZionist

If you don't get it, you just don't get it.

Kind of creeps me out. I mean, it's SPACE. We want to go to SPACE. How can this be something you have to argue about?

I just signed up for five more accounts to upding this.

287 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:34:45pm

re: #285 SanFranciscoZionist

If you don't get it, you just don't get it.

Kind of creeps me out. I mean, it's SPACE. We want to go to SPACE. How can this be something you have to argue about?

Maybe they've seen Alien one too many times?

288 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:35:31pm

re: #279 erik_t

The real answer is because we don't always know where science will lead us. Curie sure didn't envision cheap clean nuclear power when she was fooling around with radon (or nuclear weapons that keep Iran at bay or whatever this moron wants to believe today). The Wrights never foresaw delivering a living human organ hundreds of miles in an hour or two to save a life. Mendel never expected to map the human genome and predict disease. The vast bulk of our planetary understanding is on a sample size of one. Who knows what another planet can teach us?

That and that filthy librul Kennedy's answer: because it's Mars, and because it's there.

Beautiful. Quoted again.

289 aagcobb  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:35:47pm

re: #285 SanFranciscoZionist

If you don't get it, you just don't get it.

Kind of creeps me out. I mean, it's SPACE. We want to go to SPACE. How can this be something you have to argue about?

If it was worth doing, private business operating in the free market would do it!

290 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:36:57pm

re: #287 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Maybe they've seen Alien one too many times?

After that, exploring space would seem like going to check out that noise in the attic with a candle.

A gusty attic.

291 freetoken  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:38:09pm

re: #285 SanFranciscoZionist

I mean, it's SPACE. We want to go to SPACE.

MP3 Audio
292 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:38:23pm

re: #285 SanFranciscoZionist

If you don't get it, you just don't get it.

Kind of creeps me out. I mean, it's SPACE. We want to go to SPACE. How can this be something you have to argue about?

Unfortunately, it seems like the tea baggers/victims of right wing media dislike ANYTHING that's going on now. Thiis guy is really nice, etc., but today he blew my mind. Orange County Republican as I will now classify. I need to grill him on his 420 though - hypocrite.

293 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:39:18pm

re: #281 SanFranciscoZionist

My local source, says the fire is almost out.

294 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:39:47pm

re: #293 Dancing along the light of day

My local source, says the fire is almost out.

Fingers crossed.

295 aagcobb  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:40:26pm

re: #272 danarchy

We've sent several "things" to mars. Each of these things build on what we've learned from the previous things. It's the difference between sending a photographer or geologist or a biologist or climatologist or chemist etc. Hopefully this is all just prep work for sending actual people.

To those of us who grew up with Apollo missions and Star Trek, sending people to Mars sounds like a great geeky adventure. But as far as getting the best science bang for our tax dollars, robots are the way to go for the foreseeable future. The science tends to get short shrift when so much money has to be spent just to get astronauts there and back again alive.

296 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:40:42pm

re: #271 prairiefire

How come you just can't rely on what a politician says out of their mouth?

Oh you can do that with Bachmann: You can reply on her to say untrue and stupid things in a regular basis.

297 erik_t  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:40:54pm

re: #292 Stanley Sea

Unfortunately, it seems like the tea baggers/victims of right wing media dislike ANYTHING that's going on now. Thiis guy is really nice, etc., but today he blew my mind. Orange County Republican as I will now classify. I need to grill him on his 420 though - hypocrite.

St. Reagan was a well-known enemy of all things spaceflight.

/

298 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:41:08pm

"Those who came before us made certain that this country rode the first waves of the industrial revolution, the first waves of modern invention, and the first wave of nuclear power, and this generation does not intend to founder in the backwash of the coming age of space. We mean to be a part of it—we mean to lead it. For the eyes of the world now look into space, to the moon and to the planets beyond, and we have vowed that we shall not see it governed by a hostile flag of conquest, but by a banner of freedom and peace. We have vowed that we shall not see space filled with weapons of mass destruction, but with instruments of knowledge and understanding."

- John F. Kennedy

300 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:42:23pm

re: #289 aagcobb

There's an early William Gibson story where a Soviet cosmonaut in a moldering space station finds an American couple who launched from a wheat field in Kansas in a homebuilt rocket trying to set up a retirement home in the satellite belt. I think that's what happens. I barely remember it. That was back when Gibson's successful future culture was the Soviets. Then it was the Japanese. Then, I think Balkan gangsters or something. I don't know what he's up to now. Chinese? He always seems to go for the pop wisdom of the day.

301 prairiefire  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:45:28pm

Massive Chevron fire:[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

No, it's not an episode of True Blood.

302 dragonath  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:46:27pm

re: #275 Daniel Ballard

Ask him if he had a car in 1970. Then ask why he now has a newer car...

I heard the Plymouth Duster Mars Explorer stalled a lot.

303 prairiefire  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:48:44pm

re: #300 SanFranciscoZionist

It seems quite likely to me that it might be a progressive couple from Kansas. A Bit like Stanley Ann deciding to sleep with a Kenyan man. Only advanced by six generations.

304 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:49:00pm

re: #299 Lidane

Whee!

NOM Defends Biblical Marriage, Including Slavery, Concubines, Polygamy, And Rape

Part of the problem is that there is actually hardly ANY Biblical discussion of marriage, conceptually. We see various Biblical figures in various sorts of marriages and marriage-like arrangements. But we don't hear much discussion of what marriage means, or why it is important, any more than we hear an explanation of why people wear clothes.

305 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:50:02pm

Excellent conversation, thanks all. I'm kicking it in. Have a marsifilous night.

306 jvic  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:50:48pm

re: #298 Targetpractice

"Those who came before us made certain that this country rode the first waves of the industrial revolution, the first waves of modern invention, and the first wave of nuclear power, and this generation does not intend to founder in the backwash of the coming age of space. We mean to be a part of it—we mean to lead it. For the eyes of the world now look into space, to the moon and to the planets beyond, and we have vowed that we shall not see it governed by a hostile flag of conquest, but by a banner of freedom and peace. We have vowed that we shall not see space filled with weapons of mass destruction, but with instruments of knowledge and understanding." - John F. Kennedy

Whoever said that we went to the Moon a half-century early may have had a point. Apollo was a tour de force, but only now is the tech infrastructure emerging to repeat it sustainably, affordably, and profitably.

Though IMHO it may take additional decades of biology before humans can reside off-planet (and return).

307 Kragar  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:51:35pm

re: #304 SanFranciscoZionist

Part of the problem is that there is actually hardly ANY Biblical discussion of marriage, conceptually. We see various Biblical figures in various sorts of marriages and marriage-like arrangements. But we don't hear much discussion of what marriage means, or why it is important, any more than we hear an explanation of why people wear clothes.

Obviously clothes are worn to hide our shameful flesh from the eyes of the Lord.
/

308 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:53:30pm

re: #307 Kragar

Obviously clothes are worn to hide our shameful flesh from the eyes of the Lord.
/

The Lord seems fine with it. It's actually the awareness of one another's naked flesh that seems to drive Adam and Chava to start sewing.

309 CriticalDragon1177  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:53:32pm

re: #245 Interesting Times

Michele Bachmann Thankful No Americans Died In Sikh Shooting

...so who had to check the URL to make sure?

You do realize that the Onion is a parody magazine don't you? For a moment there I actually thought that perhaps Bachmann had said that. I don't really like her that much, but still.

310 dragonath  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:54:07pm

re: #301 prairiefire

Massive Chevron fire:[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

No, it's not an episode of True Blood.

I hope someone tells Killgore that OWS didn't cause this.

/

311 prairiefire  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:54:20pm

re: #304 SanFranciscoZionist

But why did Jesus speak against divorce as he did? I think it was in deference to a structured familial organization. Jesus never once uttered a word against homosexuals. "Leviticus" is old school.

312 erik_t  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:54:49pm

re: #307 Kragar

Obviously clothes are worn to hide our shameful flesh from the eyes of the Lord.
/

Shame is fun!

313 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:55:22pm

re: #309 CriticalDragon1177

You do realize that the Onion is a parody magazine don't you? For a moment there I actually thought that perhaps Bachmann had said that. I don't really like her that much, but still.

My classic Onion story: I'm walking down the street with my mother, when I realize she has stopped walking. I look back. She's standing in front of a newstand, mouth open, eyes wide in horror. I go back. The headline reads, "Bush Complains, Vacation Ruined by "Stupid Dead Soldier"".

I had to gently point out that it was the Onion before she could start breathing again.

314 Kragar  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:55:50pm

re: #308 SanFranciscoZionist

The Lord seems fine with it. It's actually the awareness of one another's naked flesh that seems to drive Adam and Chava to start sewing.

I just don't want other guys to feel inadequate or to drive the ladies crazy.

315 prairiefire  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:58:06pm

re: #313 SanFranciscoZionist

So, SFZ, my husband self diagnosed for a mental illness. I suspected as much~ O.C D. He says he won't see a Doctor. I think he has to in 2 months.

316 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 9:59:42pm

re: #300 SanFranciscoZionist

There's an early William Gibson story where a Soviet cosmonaut in a moldering space station finds an American couple who launched from a wheat field in Kansas in a homebuilt rocket trying to set up a retirement home in the satellite belt. I think that's what happens. I barely remember it. That was back when Gibson's successful future culture was the Soviets. Then it was the Japanese. Then, I think Balkan gangsters or something. I don't know what he's up to now. Chinese? He always seems to go for the pop wisdom of the day.

You're thinking of Red Star, Winter Orbit from Burning Crome. My favorite story from that compilation was Hinterlands.

317 Mich-again  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 10:00:20pm

re: #304 SanFranciscoZionist

Part of the problem is that there is actually hardly ANY Biblical discussion of marriage, conceptually. We see various Biblical figures in various sorts of marriages and marriage-like arrangements. But we don't hear much discussion of what marriage means, or why it is important, any more than we hear an explanation of why people wear clothes.

How'd that very first marriage work out? hmm. wife running around naked chatting it up with a snake next tree over, her and the old man get evicted for pissing off the landlord.. One of their kids kills the other one.. yeah. model freakin family.

318 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 10:03:04pm

re: #311 prairiefire

But why did Jesus speak against divorce as he did? I think it was in deference to a structured familial organization. Jesus never once uttered a word against homosexuals. "Leviticus" is old school.

Divorce was considered perfectly respectable by the religious establishment of the day. I don't know what Jesus' concern was, precisely, but it parallels (and probably is derived from) the Essenes, who were much more restrictive about it than most first-century Jews. Some Essenes did not marry at all, and the men lived in monastic communities, those who did were expected to marry a single wife and stick with her.

319 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 10:04:30pm

re: #315 prairiefire

So, SFZ, my husband self diagnosed for a mental illness. I suspected as much~ O.C D. He says he won't see a Doctor. I think he has to in 2 months.

I think seeing a doctor would be a good idea. He'll get, at least, a second opinion, and some support getting what treatment he feels he needs.

Is it interfering in his life to a notable extent?

320 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 10:06:22pm

re: #306 jvic

Whoever said that we went to the Moon a half-century early may have had a point. Apollo was a tour de force, but only now is the tech infrastructure emerging to repeat it sustainably, affordably, and profitably.

Though IMHO it may take additional decades of biology before humans can reside off-planet (and return).

In a lot of ways, I think Apollo was what was needed to prove that it could be done. If we'd just put it off til the technology was deemed "ready," we'd still be staring at the Moon and thinking "Some day."

321 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 10:07:38pm

re: #317 Mich-again

How'd that very first marriage work out? hmm. wife running around naked chatting it up with a snake next tree over, her and the old man get evicted for pissing off the landlord.. One of their kids kills the other one.. yeah. model freakin family.

The problem is, the Bible doesn't DO model families. The families are all very realistic in their massive disfunctionality. The touches of hope are small. Anyone looking to the Bible from the viewpoint of 'if I read this I will have a model of family life' is doomed to disappointment. The lessons are smaller and more complicated than that.

322 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 10:17:09pm

re: #321 SanFranciscoZionist

The problem is, the Bible doesn't DO model families. The families are all very realistic in their massive disfunctionality. The touches of hope are small. Anyone looking to the Bible from the viewpoint of 'if I read this I will have a model of family life' is doomed to disappointment. The lessons are smaller and more complicated than that.

The people up in arms about "biblical marriage" aren't reading the Bible. They're being told what the contents really mean by "scholars" who favor gnostic revelation over text analysis...and shockingly, the revealing meaning confirms their existing prejudices. I have an ex-friend who's Rapture-ready. He can't tell where the actual words of the Bible end and where the Scofield-Darby notations begin. He can't be engaged theologically or in text analysis, because there's thought process deeper than, "I was told this is what it said."

The Bible is the vermouth in the ideological martini of paleoconservative "Christianity."

323 prairiefire  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 10:18:13pm

re: #321 SanFranciscoZionist

No, the touches of hope are huge!! As in all of us, I guess. The Gospels are open to interpretation. I feel a huge shift coming if my husband does not acknowledge his illness.

324 dragonath  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 10:23:38pm

Trouble in the British Coalition:

Coalition deadlock as Nick Clegg and David Cameron veto each other

Nick Clegg's plan for constitutional reform and David Cameron's scheme to shift parliamentary boundaries in the Conservatives' favour both lay in ruins on Monday as victims of the prime minister's inability to persuade his backbenchers to support an elected House of Lords.

A subdued and depressed Clegg announced he was abandoning all plans to reform the Lords in this parliament, adding as a result he will also be instructing his MPs to vote down revised parliamentary boundaries designed to reduce the number of MPs to 600.

I think having an American inspired Senate would be a mistake. The current system is more dynamic, and deadlock is the last thing a country like England needs.

325 jvic  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 10:25:14pm

re: #320 Targetpractice

In a lot of ways, I think Apollo was what was needed to prove that it could be done. If we'd just put it off til the technology was deemed "ready," we'd still be staring at the Moon and thinking "Some day."

That's what we're doing now, no?

I can visualize a step-by-step path to the Moon: communications satellites, crewed suborbital flights, orbital flights, a space station, robots, round-trip robots, and so on.

I concede that progress might have stagnated somewhere on that path. At some point neither governments nor the private sector might have been willing to speculate with a necessary amount of money.

326 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 10:29:16pm

re: #325 jvic

That's what we're doing now, no?

I can visualize a step-by-step path to the Moon: communications satellites, crewed suborbital flights, orbital flights, a space station, robots, round-trip robots, and so on.

I concede that progress might have stagnated somewhere on that path. At some point neither governments nor the private sector might have been willing to speculate with a necessary amount of money.

And that's really my point, building up to it would have raised too many questions of "Why take a slow and steady approach?," as well as demands for those funds to be diverted to more "important" programs/proposals. In a lot of ways, our rush to get there helped lay the foundation for our return.

327 Kragar  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 10:38:33pm

re: #325 jvic

That's what we're doing now, no?

I can visualize a step-by-step path to the Moon: communications satellites, crewed suborbital flights, orbital flights, a space station, robots, round-trip robots, and so on.

I concede that progress might have stagnated somewhere on that path. At some point neither governments nor the private sector might have been willing to speculate with a necessary amount of money.

Image: asteroids_are_natures_way_of_asking-110321.jpg

328 freetoken  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 10:52:16pm
MP3 Audio
329 jvic  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 10:54:35pm

re: #326 Targetpractice

And that's really my point, building up to it would have raised too many questions of "Why take a slow and steady approach?," as well as demands for those funds to be diverted to more "important" programs/proposals. In a lot of ways, our rush to get there helped lay the foundation for our return.

I'm glad we went but IMO our precipitous route was not the only possible itinerary. I'll leave it at that.

Though there is no substitute for boots on the ground, in my reflective moments our planetary fly-by's seem more praiseworthy than Apollo.

330 freetoken  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 11:02:25pm

This one might be more appropriate to the news cycle:

MP3 Audio
331 freetoken  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 11:49:55pm

Often I don't appreciate these sort of things, but this one works pretty well:

MP3 Audio
332 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 12:14:11am

The Canada vs. USA women's semi final is replaying right now on the Olympic Soccer Channel. Y'all owe it to yourselves to see this game.

333 AK-47%  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 12:37:10am

re: #311 prairiefire

Jesus never once uttered a word against homosexuals.

Stephen Colbert explained that: "He was too disgusted by to to even speak!"

334 Dr Lizardo  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 12:38:00am

re: #187 Shiplord Kirel

As the ancient Vulcan proverb goes, "Only Nixon could go to China."

Compared to the current crop of GOP lunatics, Nixon and McCarthy are practically saints.

335 AK-47%  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 12:43:59am

re: #334 Dr Lizardo

As the ancient Vulcan proverb goes, "Only Nixon could go to China."

Compared According to the current crop of GOP lunatics, Nixon and McCarthy are practically saints communists.

336 researchok  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 1:04:11am

Morning, all

337 researchok  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 1:10:45am

re: #331 freetoken

You are right- it does work.

Kind of like a grown up, elegant PDQ Bach.

338 researchok  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 1:13:39am

re: #330 freetoken

LOL- Great choice!

339 researchok  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 1:23:52am

re: #328 freetoken

I recall reading 'modern Japan' was different in that that progressive culture was not so much original as it is a copy of foreign/western culture- be it in the arts, pop culture and so on.

The rationale is the true Japanese culture must never be parodied as it was 'sacred'. The unwritten rule is as long as indigenous culture is respected, kids won't be punished for 'acting out'.

I read that in passing and never gave much thought to it.

There might be something to it, though.

340 freetoken  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 1:28:03am

re: #339 researchok

That was never my impression. Japanese entertainment readily commented on their own culture. Remember, with The Peanuts (and the less successful groups) we're getting a 1960's Japan that is trying to fit into the US dominated world, and their pop culture went over the top to embrace Western styles.

341 freetoken  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 1:34:32am
MP3 Audio
342 AK-47%  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 1:36:36am

re: #340 freetoken

The Japanese patently refuse to allow any archaeolgical digs in the tombs of their ancient Emperors, ostensibly out of religious reverence, but, it is said, out of fear of revealing their true origins, which are probably in Korea or Manchuria...

343 researchok  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 1:38:23am

re: #340 freetoken

Maybe- but looking at kids today in Japan is looking at an exaggeration/caricature of western pop culture as opposed to domestic culture.

I did look at the Peanuts wiki and it is noted they are best remembered for their 'versions of European songs and for a handful of Japanese pop songs'.

In any event, I don't know enough about Japanese pop culture. I'd have to read more before I'd be comfortable commenting on contemporary cultural expressions.

344 researchok  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 1:45:03am

re: #342 Expand Your Ground

That's a very sensitive subject over there- and it is equally as sensitive for the Koreans and the Chinese.

I do recall reading there are some theories which claim the Japanese islands were deliberately populated by a 'superior' cross section of those societies.

345 AK-47%  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 1:48:52am

re: #344 researchok

And just try and hang any degree of complicity for WWII on the Emperor and you will find a bus full of nationalistic goons parked outside your house or office shouthing threats.

346 researchok  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 1:54:40am

re: #345 Expand Your Ground

Yes -just look at how Pearl Harbor has been whitewashed.

347 AK-47%  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 1:55:07am

re: #346 researchok

Yes -just look at how Pearl Harbor has been whitewashed.

and Nanking

348 researchok  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 1:55:53am

re: #347 Expand Your Ground

Understatement of the week.

349 RadicalModerate  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 2:27:38am

A couple of rather interesting details regarding the Brietbart site's coverage of the Wisconsin Sikh temple shootings from Sunday.
They have two articles up accusing Democrats (and the Obama administration in particular) of politicizing the event.

However, what is missing from every report they've posted is the act was very likely racially-motivated, and not a single mention that the shooter, Wade Michael Page was by all accounts a white supremacist, and advocated a "racial holy war" on more than one occasion.

350 freetoken  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 2:28:52am

re: #342 Expand Your Ground

First, officially it is the prerogative of the Emperor to allow the digging, as any remains in tombs are presumed to be his ancestors. There have been a few excavations in the Nara area, but the oldest (and largest) Kofun, south of Osaka, is still off limits.

Secondly, the Emperor has come out and stated himself that his ancestry came from Korea. While there appears to be a segment of the population that doesn't want to accept this, modern genomics has indeed shown how close Japanese and Koreans are.

Because the movement of peoples off the Korean peninsula into Japan predates writing in Japan, archeological and genetic evidence are what will have to suffice.

Genomics has also just recently shown how closely the Mongol-Korean-Japanese-Northern China populations are related. As one moves farther south on the mainland into southern China there is more divergence. The older (pre-Korean) inhabitants of the islands are from other populations much farther back in human lineage. The oldest pottery found on Japan is something around 10,000 years old, and it is unclear who those people really were and may now be totally extinct. The oldest humans to make it to eastern China are of course Homo erectus, a very long time ago, but it is not known if they made it all the way to Korea and the Japanese islands, though of course they could have, as they made it all the way to Java in the south.

So yes, humans have been wondering around the Far East for a very long time, and one group of people comes in after another, displacing or interbreeding with the older groups.

351 researchok  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 2:32:42am

re: #350 freetoken

Good compendium/summary

352 freetoken  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 2:39:38am

I suspect this will backfire:

Romney launches new attack on Obama over welfare

While it's red meat for the "base", the idea of having one of the richest of politicians whine about welfare will not come off too well to the masses.

353 AK-47%  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 2:40:42am

re: #350 freetoken

All of which is perfectly is logical and rational. Which means that it cannot correspond to a literal interpretation of Japanese creation myths. Sound familiar?

354 freetoken  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 2:50:48am

re: #353 Expand Your Ground

Oh yes, their creation myths are as much creative writing as those of late antiquity Judahites (to borrow a phrase from modern diggers.)

If you want to learn more, I believe the Kingdom of Kibi is one of the more researched transition periods/locales. Archeologists tend to be attracted to the older Jomon period, because it is so intriguing, but the late bronze/early iron age transition states are the predecessors to the ancient Japanese nation as we know it today. The older peoples are lost to antiquity.

355 freetoken  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 3:04:55am
Youtube Video

"Oshima bushi" means (the honorable) Island Melody. It's supposed to be an authentic folk song about traveling between islands.

356 freetoken  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 3:08:03am

Though I prefer The Peanut's mambo-ish version:

MP3 Audio
357 Varek Raith  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 3:17:33am
Youtube Video

Good morning.

358 The Left  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 3:27:47am

re: #357 Varek Raith

[Embedded content]

Good morning.

That was awesome!
Good morning. :)

359 Aye Pod  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 4:33:15am

Good morning!

see ya!

360 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 4:42:05am

Bryan Fischer, as always, First Derp of the Day

Dude, it's an animated cartoon! It's not "shot on location"

361 Varek Raith  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 5:05:34am

re: #360 Learned Mother of Zion

Bryan Fischer, as always, First Derp of the Day

[Embedded content]

Dude, it's an animated cartoon! It's not "shot on location"

Derp!
Besides, Kung Fu was created where....?
Lol.

362 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 5:32:10am

I see that NPR has released the results of its vote for the top 100 teen novels. I was unfamiliar with many of them yet still pleasantly surprised to see a couple in there - The Princess Bride, Flowers for Algernon - so it was interesting to peruse the list.

[Link: www.npr.org...]

363 Decatur Deb  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 5:34:13am

re: #362 William Barnett-Lewis

I see that NPR has released the results of its vote for the top 100 teen novels. I was unfamiliar with many of them yet still pleasantly surprised to see a couple in there - The Princess Bride, Flowers for Algernon - so it was interesting to peruse the list.

[Link: www.npr.org...]

Sounds cool, but the link failed here (FF/Linux).

364 Shropshire_Slasher  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 5:35:43am

The title is Unusual Olympic Sports, more like pretty awesome photos!
[Link: blog.timesunion.com...]

365 Shropshire_Slasher  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 5:48:50am

Squirrel!
[Link: www.nypost.com...]

366 Gus  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 5:58:26am

re: #361 Varek Raith

Derp!
Besides, Kung Fu was created where....?
Lol.

Kung Fu Panda: the story of a 'red, white, and blue' panda and his glorious Christian fight against Islam, homosexuals, and liberals.

367 Gus  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:01:53am

Of course. A panda is really a... BEAR!!!ty

368 Interesting Times  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:06:21am

It gets better worse:

369 Gus  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:11:42am

Conservatives have angry with teh Onion this morning.

370 Bulworth  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:15:12am

I'm just concerned about how the Sharia Law will coincide with the Godless Secular Gay Humanism, which is also on the second term agenda. //

371 Varek Raith  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:16:04am

re: #367 Gus

Of course. A panda is really a... BEAR!!!ty

Commie.

372 GunstarGreen  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:16:24am

re: #311 prairiefire

But why did Jesus speak against divorce as he did? I think it was in deference to a structured familial organization. Jesus never once uttered a word against homosexuals. "Leviticus" is old school.

Doesn't matter. People who use the bible as a tool to justify hatred and bigotry pick and choose which parts of it they care about. The passage they use to justify anti-gay bigotry comes from a book that describes required rituals for things like pregnancy, none of which are followed today. It proscribes the wearing of pants by women, and the wearing of clothing that contains certain fibers, and of planting fields with more than one type of seed.

Extremely few people care what the bible actually says, they care only for the parts that justify their behavior.

373 Varek Raith  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:16:30am

re: #369 Gus

Conservatives have angry with teh Onion this morning.

How is that even...
Nevermind.

374 GunstarGreen  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:18:59am

re: #370 Bulworth

I'm just concerned about how the Sharia Law will coincide with the Godless Secular Gay Humanism, which is also on the second term agenda. //

Much like how present concern about them does, they will alternate weeks. A week of adhering to horrible foreign Sharia, then a week of adhering to Godless Secular Gay Humanism, then a week of Sharia, then...

//

375 The Left  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:19:04am

Comment I just saw on a random news site:

"I'm going to start drinking now to dull the pain of your ignorance."

T Shirt worthy, imo.

376 Gus  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:19:23am

re: #373 Varek Raith

How is that even...
Nevermind.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

377 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:19:50am

re: #13 goddamnedfrank

Can you imagine the equivalent of inciting to riot against a specific religion? Say, resurrecting the blood libel in a small town that has one synagog during an outbreak of missing children. Not all speech is protected, nor should it be.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

1928 mind you, but right up that alley.

378 makeitstop  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:20:04am

re: #369 Gus

Conservatives have angry with teh Onion this morning.

Probably because that Bachmann piece was way too close to the truth for them.

379 Varek Raith  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:20:10am

re: #376 Gus

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Bazinga!

380 Gus  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:22:50am

re: #379 Varek Raith

Bazinga!

Butthurt. Yeah, another tantrum from the tighty righties. I swear we had a couple of Onion flounces at LGF back in the day.

381 Gus  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:23:41am
382 Gus  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:24:04am

Murica. Fuck yeah!

383 Gus  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:24:46am

re: #381 Gus

[Embedded content]

...that to secure a citizen’s right to acknowledge Almighty God according to the dictates of his or her own conscience, neither the state nor any of its political subdivisions shall establish any official religion, nor shall a citizen’s right to pray or express his or her religious beliefs be infringed; that the state shall not coerce any person to participate in any prayer or other religious activity, but shall ensure that any person shall have the right to pray individually or corporately in a private or public setting so long as such prayer does not result in disturbance of the peace or disruption of a public meeting or assembly; that citizens as well as elected officials and employees of the state of Missouri and its political subdivisions shall have the right to pray on government premises and public property so long as such prayers abide within the same parameters 15 placed upon any other free speech under similar circumstances; that the General Assembly and the governing bodies of political subdivisions may extend to ministers, clergypersons, and other individuals the privilege to offer invocations or other prayers at meetings or sessions of the General Assembly or governing bodies; that students may express their beliefs about religion in written and oral assignments free from discrimination based on the religious content of their work; that no student shall be compelled to perform or participate in academic assignments or educational presentations that violate his or her religious beliefs; that the state shall ensure public school students their right to free exercise of religious expression without interference, as long as such prayer or other expression is private and voluntary, whether individually or corporately, and in a manner that is not disruptive and as long as such prayers or expressions abide within the same parameters placed upon any other free speech under similar circumstances; and, to emphasize the right to free exercise of religious expression, that all free public schools receiving state appropriations shall display, in a conspicuous and legible manner, the text of the Bill of Rights of the Constitution of the United States...

384 Gus  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:26:14am

[Banjo music.]

385 Interesting Times  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:27:24am

Cons butthurt over satire? OK, let me rub it in further:

386 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:30:06am

What "welfare reforms" are they hyperventilating about? Well, he has eliminated the "must 'work' to receive welfare benefits" which was totally ineffective.

Republicans totally do not realize that many people on welfare are already working, at low-paying shit jobs like Walmart, while the Waltons rake in billions.

387 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:37:58am

re: #195 Fred Galt

The Pittsburgh Pirates just won thier 62nd game, which means they have averted a 20th straight losing season.

Not yet. Need another 20 wins or so. Guaranteed they won't lose 100 games with that one.

388 GunstarGreen  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:38:04am

re: #381 Gus

[Embedded content]

So, I suppose we need to start a betting pool on when the first instance of a non-Christian skipping class for 'religious reasons' will happen and get them in an uproar because they were only thinking about their religion when they wrote that.

389 allegro  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:38:46am

re: #386 Learned Mother of Zion

[Embedded content]

What "welfare reforms" are they hyperventilating about? Well, he has eliminated the "must 'work' to receive welfare benefits" which was totally ineffective.

Republicans totally do not realize that many people on welfare are already working, at low-paying shit jobs like Walmart, while the Waltons rake in billions.

Yeah, because the Waltons et al can't afford to pay their employees because too much taxes. Lower them some more and they'' give everyone a raise. It's Obama's fault.

//not enough//

390 Varek Raith  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:38:55am

re: #386 Learned Mother of Zion

[Embedded content]

What "welfare reforms" are they hyperventilating about? Well, he has eliminated the "must 'work' to receive welfare benefits" which was totally ineffective.

Republicans totally do not realize that many people on welfare are already working, at low-paying shit jobs like Walmart, while the Waltons rake in billions.

Romney Claims Waivers He Used To Support Will ‘Gut Welfare Reform’

391 Gus  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:38:57am

re: #388 GunstarGreen

So, I suppose we need to start a betting pool on when the first instance of a non-Christian skipping class for 'religious reasons' will happen and get them in an uproar because they were only thinking about their religion when they wrote that.

You mean like a... MOOZLIM!?!?!?!11ty

392 Gus  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:41:32am

re: #391 Gus

You mean like a... MOOZLIM!?!?!?!11ty

Mostly true. -- Politifact

393 Varek Raith  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:41:40am

Education is against my religion.
#Winning!

394 allegro  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:44:38am

re: #388 GunstarGreen

So, I suppose we need to start a betting pool on when the first instance of a non-Christian skipping class for 'religious reasons' will happen and get them in an uproar because they were only thinking about their religion when they wrote that.

My last few years at the university, ever increasing numbers of religious, evolution-denying, homeschoolers necessitated my first lecture in Bio101 to include telling the students that this was a science class, not a theology class. If they were unable to separate the two, I recommended that they drop the course now. Since it was a required course for all majors, this didn't go over well among some students and their parents. I had tenure. I didn't spare a moment of grief over their whining of religious butthurt.

395 Robert O.  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:45:54am

Meanwhile, it looks like Mitt Romney's $77k tax deduction isn't doing so well at the Olympics. Rafalca is 18th in the "Team Dressage Grand Prix Special": [Link: www.london2012.com...]

396 GunstarGreen  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:48:49am

re: #395 Robert O.

Meanwhile, it looks like Mitt Romney's $77k tax deduction isn't doing so well at the Olympics. Rafalca is 18th in the "Team Dressage Grand Prix Special": [Link: www.london2012.com...]

Even the 1%'s horses have never done a day of honest, good work in their lives...

//

397 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:50:39am

re: #395 Robert O.

Meanwhile, it looks like Mitt Romney's $77k tax deduction isn't doing so well at the Olympics. Rafalca is 18th in the "Team Dressage Grand Prix Special": [Link: www.london2012.com...]

Now he'll probably claim an even bigger tax deduction since Rafalca won't get those lucrative horse shoe endorsements.

398 aagcobb  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:51:02am

re: #394 allegro

My last few years at the university, ever increasing numbers of religious, evolution-denying, homeschoolers necessitated my first lecture in Bio101 to include telling the students that this was a science class, not a theology class. If they were unable to separate the two, I recommended that they drop the course now. Since it was a required course for all majors, this didn't go over well among some students and their parents. I had tenure. I didn't spare a moment of grief over their whining of religious butthurt.

I hope some of them had their eyes opened.

399 Bulworth  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:53:48am

re: #386 Learned Mother of Zion

What "welfare reforms" are they hyperventilating about? Well, he has eliminated the "must 'work' to receive welfare benefits" which was totally ineffective.

Republicans totally do not realize that many people on welfare are already working, at low-paying shit jobs like Walmart, while the Waltons rake in billions.

More drug tests! /

400 Gus  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:54:22am

Nothing can be done!

401 Gus  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:56:00am
402 allegro  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:56:39am

re: #398 aagcobb

I hope some of them had their eyes opened.

Yes, quite a few actually to my great satisfaction. Once kids get away from home and that indoctrination into a world where they are exposed to new (to them) concepts and get their little minds cranked open, wonderful things often happen. It was one of the reasons I continued to teach Bio101 years after I didn't have to anymore (it's often the purview of department newcomers). Knowing that the course was the only science many of them would ever be exposed to, I did my best to make it count.

403 makeitstop  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:57:37am

Keep Chuckin' Those Facts!

Give the most useless website in the known universe this: they’re consistent. Once again, they have awarded a “pants on fire” award, in this case to Harry Reid, despite providing no evidence whatsoever that Reid lied. Here’s the problem:

Many readers asked us to put Reid’s claim to the Truth-O-Meter. We conclude that Reid, despite repeating the claim on at least two occasions, has not produced any solid evidence it is true.

This does not, in fact, constitute a “lie.” If it is, than Romney has told “pants on fire” lies about what he’s paid in taxes as well. And PolitiFact is double-pants-on-fire-with-an-additional-Pinocchio lying, since they haven’t provided the slightest evidence that Reid wasn’t told by someone that Romney hasn’t paid taxes. As always, PolitiFact simply doesn’t understand what facts and lies are, which is kind of a problem when you purport to be a fact-checker.

404 Gus  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:57:40am

re: #401 Gus

[Embedded content]

Image: 752px-Official_2011_MH_.jpg

405 Interesting Times  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 7:00:02am

re: #402 allegro

Yes, quite a few actually to my great satisfaction. Once kids get away from home and that indoctrination into a world where they are exposed to new (to them) concepts and get their little minds cranked open, wonderful things often happen.

OMG Santorum's right!!11!!!ty

"It's no wonder President Obama wants every kid to go to college," said the former Pennsylvania senator. "The indoctrination that occurs in American universities is one of the keys to the left holding and maintaining power in America. And it is indoctrination. If it was the other way around, the ACLU would be out there making sure that there wasn't one penny of government dollars going to colleges and universities, right?"

406 Killgore Trout  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 7:01:28am

re: #403 makeitstop

The liberal war on facts has to be my favorite new trend.

407 allegro  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 7:02:15am

re: #405 Interesting Times

OMG Santorum's right!!11!!!ty

Yeah, that particular quote has special meaning for me. It was the only time I partly agreed with the cretin... in reverse.

408 Killgore Trout  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 7:04:46am

WaPo's factchecker...
Four Pinocchios for Harry Reid’s claim about Mitt Romney’s taxes

We use a reasonable person standard here. Without seeing Romney’s taxes, we cannot definitively prove Reid incorrect. But tax experts say his claim is highly improbable. Reid also has made no effort to explain why his unnamed source would be credible. So, in the absence of more information, it appears he has no basis to make his incendiary claim.

Moreover, Reid holds a position of great authority in the U.S. Congress. He should hold himself to a high standard of accuracy when making claims about political opponents.

The conspiracy of fact checkers continues!

409 Decatur Deb  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 7:06:07am

re: #406 Killgore Trout

The liberal war on facts has to be my favorite new trend.

Make that "human war on facts", and you could present a case. It's not directional.

410 Gus  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 7:06:56am

Derp.

411 makeitstop  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 7:08:00am

re: #406 Killgore Trout

The liberal war on facts has to be my favorite new trend.

That 'fact-checkers' war on common sense is mine.

412 Varek Raith  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 7:08:17am

According to Politifact, what Reid said was a bigger lie than the Romney camp saying Obama is suing to restrict military votes.

413 GunstarGreen  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 7:09:39am

re: #412 Varek Raith

According to Politifact, what Reid said was a bigger lie than the Romney camp saying Obama is suing to restrict military votes.

Gotta keep up the horse race. Just think of how bad the ratings will be if we don't!

414 Varek Raith  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 7:10:06am

re: #412 Varek Raith

According to Politifact, what Reid said was a bigger lie than the Romney camp saying Obama is suing to restrict military votes.

Tell me KT, what do you think of that?

415 makeitstop  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 7:10:07am

re: #408 Killgore Trout

WaPo's factchecker...
Four Pinocchios for Harry Reid’s claim about Mitt Romney’s taxes

The conspiracy of fact checkers continues!

The Washington Post, handing out 'pinocchios.'

WaPo was an esteemed news outlet back in the day, wasn't it?

416 Varek Raith  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 7:11:54am

If Reid's comments are pants on fire, than Romney's must be gasoline soaked pants on fire.
Or somesuch.

417 Interesting Times  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 7:13:38am
418 Kronocide  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 7:14:01am

re: #412 Varek Raith

According to Politifact, what Reid said was a bigger lie than the Romney camp saying Obama is suing to restrict military votes.

Lie-berals!

419 Kronocide  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 7:15:40am

Fair and Balanced

420 makeitstop  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 7:16:44am
Days after falsely accusing the Obama campaign of working to restrict the voting rights of members of the military, the Romney campaign still won’t say whether they believe Ohio cops, firefighters and veterans are worthy of early voting rights.

The Romney campaign has failed to respond to multiple inquires from TPM on whether they believe Ohio veterans, cops and firefighters should also be allowed to vote in-person during the three days before an election.

Spineless. Utterly spineless.

421 Gus  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 7:17:29am
422 Varek Raith  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 7:18:23am

[Link: www.politifact.com...]

[Link: www.politifact.com...]

What utter bullshit. What makes Reid's lie a bigger one than Romney's?

423 makeitstop  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 7:18:33am

re: #421 Gus

[Embedded content]

But, but... Harry Reid!!1

424 Varek Raith  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 7:19:12am

re: #423 makeitstop

But, but... Harry Reid!!1

False-Balance-o-Meter!

425 Gus  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 7:19:35am

Breaking News: Harry Reid is not running for president.

And Mitt Romney still hasn't released his tax returns.

426 makeitstop  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 7:19:39am

re: #424 Varek Raith

False-Balance-o-Meter!

Pinocchios!!

427 Gus  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 7:20:16am

re: #424 Varek Raith

False-Balance-o-Meter!

The Magical Factcheck™ Fairy.

428 Varek Raith  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 7:21:27am

I just burned a jungle to the ground.
/Minecraft

429 Gus  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 7:28:05am

I wouldn't let the Harry Reid stuff distract you. This is what the Republicans want.

430 allegro  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 7:30:24am

re: #429 Gus

I wouldn't let the Harry Reid stuff distract you. This is what the Republicans want.

The Harry Reid stuff is exactly the distraction the Repubs DON'T want since it's keeping the topic of Romney's refusal to release his tax information at the top of the news. Working quite well, too.

431 AK-47%  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 7:32:06am

re: #381 Gus

[Embedded content]

A state legislator in Arizona tried to pass a similar law, prompting a satirist to write the following dialogue:

Teacher: What's two plus two?
Billy: Five!
Teacher: No, Billy, it's four!
Billy: But my daddy says it's five, and you cannot force me to believe otherwise!
Teacher: This is not a matter of belief, this is a matter of objective reality!
Billy: my daddy says we don't believe in objective reality!

432 Gus  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 7:32:07am
433 makeitstop  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 7:33:51am

re: #429 Gus

I wouldn't let the Harry Reid stuff distract you. This is what the Republicans want.

Only if you're worried about false equivalencies and some ginned-up standard of 'civility' that Democrats should adhere to and Republicans get to ignore.

In terms of pure politics, it's a totally kickass strategy. Let the Repubs and fellow travelers cry about it. I don't mind GOP tears a bit.

434 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 7:35:00am

re: #406 Killgore Trout

The liberal war on facts has to be my favorite new trend.

Of course it is. Your entire thing is selective appropriation of evidence to fit your preconceived narrative. Arguing from authority and not actually addressing the argumentation by the fact checkers is right up your alley. It's a shame that this time there's not video of a mentally ill homeless guy you can present as representing Harry Reid or "liberals" in general.

And, of course, all criticism can be chalked up to partisanship rather than irritation with pseudo-intellectualism, deployment of fallacies, and the choice to be passive-aggressively insulting while evading actual engagement by posturing as being aloof.

435 Kronocide  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 7:35:28am

Be careful of that black brown Muslim man scawy liberal.

436 Killgore Trout  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 7:36:45am

re: #414 Varek Raith

Tell me KT, what do you think of that?

My guess is the Mitt lie in this case is based, like most lies, on a shred of truth. Obama is indeed suing to extend early voting rights so there is truthful kernel of truth that the lie is based on. Reid's lie, so far, is based on absolutely nothing that can be validated or verified. It might be just complete fiction.Hitchen's Razor applies.

437 Gus  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 7:37:05am

re: #433 makeitstop

Only if you're worried about false equivalencies and some ginned-up standard of 'civility' that Democrats should adhere to and Republicans get to ignore.

In terms of pure politics, it's a totally kickass strategy. Let the Repubs and fellow travelers cry about it. I don't mind GOP tears a bit.

Well, only in that don't let it become about Harry Reid which is what they've turned it into. Which then deflects the attention from Romney. So instead of being about Romney -- his tax returns; Swiss bank accounts; Cayman Islands; Bain Capital; etc. -- the focus is on Reid and the faux controversy of his statement. Keep your eyes on the prize and that prize includes the continued hammering against the Romney campaign.

438 erik_t  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 7:38:07am

re: #436 Killgore Trout

My guess is the Mitt lie in this case is based, like most lies, on a shred of truth. Obama is indeed suing to extend early voting rights so there is truthful kernel of truth that the lie is based on. Reid's lie, so far, is based on absolutely nothing that can be validated or verified. It might be just complete fiction.Hitchen's Razor applies.

Gosh, if only there were some way to verify this...

439 Killgore Trout  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 7:39:42am

re: #438 erik_t

Gosh, if only there were some way to verify this...

The burden of proof is on the accuser. Can Obama prove he's not a pedophile? Should he be required to just because some nut makes the allegation?

440 allegro  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 7:41:02am

I've been thinking about the (alleged) Bain investor who told Reid about Romney not having paid taxes. How would he/she know? Bain is an investment firm. I can very easily hear Romney bragging about not having paid taxes in 10 years due to his wise fortune-making, legal (?) loophole tax evading schemes, investments, and manipulations and using that as a selling point. It isn't a stretch at all. Now whether he was being truthful to the investor is a whole 'nother thing. We know he lies. About everything.

He could clear it all up real quick by releasing his taxes.

441 makeitstop  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 7:41:02am

re: #436 Killgore Trout

My guess is the Mitt lie in this case is based, like most lies, on a shred of truth. Obama is indeed suing to extend early voting rights so there is truthful kernel of truth that the lie is based on.

Explain how extending early voting rights to all voters translates in any way to 'limiting military voting rights.'

That's a 'truthful kernel of truth' to you? Seriously?

442 AK-47%  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 7:41:25am

re: #439 Killgore Trout

The burden of proof is on the accuser. Can Obama prove he's not a pedophile? Should he be required to just because some nut makes the allegation?

This is not a court of law. It is politics. There is no law requiring disclosure, just precedent.

There is Mitt's statement, that he "paid a lot of taxes". Would be happy to have him verify that.

443 Interesting Times  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 7:41:50am

re: #436 Killgore Trout

My guess is the Mitt lie in this case is based, like most lies, on a shred of truth. Obama is indeed suing to extend early voting rights

I'm sorry, how is this a "kernel of truth" to Romney's lie accusing Obama of restricting voting? That's like saying there's a "kernel of truth" in accusing someone who debunks holocaust deniers of actually being a holocaust denier o_O

444 allegro  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 7:42:20am

re: #436 Killgore Trout

My guess is the Mitt lie in this case is based, like most lies, on a shred of truth. Obama is indeed suing to extend early voting rights so there is truthful kernel of truth that the lie is based on. Reid's lie, so far, is based on absolutely nothing that can be validated or verified. It might be just complete fiction.Hitchen's Razor applies.

Oh bullshit. There is no "shred of truth" that Obama is suing to restrict the voting rights of the military. Not one.

445 Killgore Trout  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 7:43:14am

ugh, simple logic becomes outrageous.

446 lawhawk  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 7:43:55am

Greets and saluts from the NYC metro area. NBC News/NYT has a big article today that will probably gets lots of play. HCA, a huge for-profit health care firm, apparently had no problem with its doctors performing unnecessary medical procedures, including all kinds of invasive cardiac procedures, with an eye towards the bottom line. A whistle blower was found to be right on the money, but was apparently fired in retaliation for shedding light on the mess at one hospital.

But the nurse’s complaint was far from the only evidence that unnecessary — even dangerous — procedures were taking place at some HCA hospitals, driving up costs and increasing profits.

HCA, the largest for-profit hospital chain in the United States with 163 facilities, had uncovered evidence as far back as 2002 and as recently as late 2010 showing that some cardiologists at several of its hospitals in Florida were unable to justify many of the procedures they were performing. Those hospitals included the Cedars Medical Center in Miami, which the company no longer owns, and the Regional Medical Center Bayonet Point. In some cases, the doctors made misleading statements in medical records that made it appear the procedures were necessary, according to internal reports.

Questions about the necessity of medical procedures — especially in the realm of cardiology — are not uncommon. None of the internal documents reviewed calculate just how many such procedures there were or how many patients might have died or been injured as a result. But the documents suggest that the problems at HCA went beyond a rogue doctor or two.

Health care laws leave hospitals overwhelmed by 'permanent patients'
At Lawnwood, where an invasive diagnostic test known as a cardiac catheterization is performed, about half the procedures, or 1,200, were determined to have been done on patients without significant heart disease, according to a confidential 2010 review. HCA countered recently with a different analysis, saying the percentage of patients without disease was much lower and in keeping with national averages.

At Bayonet Point, a 44-year-old man who arrived at the emergency room complaining of chest pain suffered a punctured blood vessel and a near-fatal irregular heartbeat after a doctor performed a procedure that an outside expert later suggested might have been unnecessary, documents show. The man had to be revived. “They shocked him twice and got him back,” according to the testimony of Dr. Aaron Kugelmass in a medical hearing on the case.
...

On Monday morning, in a conference call with investors, company executives disclosed that in July the civil division of the United States attorney’s office in Miami requested information on reviews assessing the medical necessity of interventional cardiology services provided at 10 of its hospitals, located largely in Florida, but also two or three hospitals in other states. In the conference call and in a statement on its Web site, the company also referred to inquiries by The Times. HCA’s stock ended nearly 4 percent lower Monday, at $25.55.

Some of this appears to be part of a larger problem with Medicare fraud, and some of it seems to be related to judgment calls by the doctors and then by those investigating/auditing the claims.

Unnecessary procedures can drive up the costs of care for everyone and increase the risks to those on which the procedures are carried out.

447 Gus  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 7:43:57am

Derp.

448 gwangung  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 7:44:37am

re: #445 Killgore Trout

ugh, simple logic becomes outrageous.

Well, the rest of it can manage it quite well.

449 allegro  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 7:44:52am

re: #445 Killgore Trout

ugh, simple logic becomes outrageous.

Show us some actual logic - simple or otherwise - to be outraged about, would ya? So far, you're batting goose-eggs.

450 Interesting Times  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 7:45:35am

re: #445 Killgore Trout

ugh, simple logic becomes outrageous.

No, the annoyance is for what you're doing to it.

451 Gus  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 7:45:44am

re: #445 Killgore Trout

ugh, simple logic becomes outrageous.

Uh. If Romney's lie is based on a "kernel of truth" because Obama's suing Ohio then Reid's lie is baed on a "kernel of truth" because Romney hasn't released his tax returns. That's your logic. It's simple. And it's not outrageous -- just, stupid.

452 Killgore Trout  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 7:47:52am

re: #449 allegro

Show us some actual logic - simple or otherwise - to be outraged about, would ya? So far, you're batting goose-eggs.

Neither of these two statements should be controversial.
1) it is true that Obama is suing over early voting in Ohio. That is true and verifiable.
2) Mitt's conclusion that Obama's suit is to discount military votes is a lie.

453 Kronocide  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 7:47:58am

re: #445 Killgore Trout

ugh, simple logic becomes outrageous.

It's not logic. Explain how there is a 'kernel truth' by Obama suing to extend voting rights is actually suing to deny voting rights.

454 AK-47%  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 7:48:10am

re: #445 Killgore Trout

ugh, simple logic becomes outrageous.

neither religion nor politics has anything to do with logic, it is all belief...

455 makeitstop  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 7:48:35am

re: #445 Killgore Trout

ugh, simple logic becomes outrageous.

You're not even in the same county as 'simple logic,' KT. Not even close.

456 gwangung  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 7:50:26am

re: #452 Killgore Trout

Neither of these two statements should be controversial.
1) it is true that Obama is suing over early voting in Ohio. That is true and verifiable.
2) Mitt's conclusion that Obama's suit is to discount military votes is a lie.

Your imprecision and sloppiness in expressing your thoughts is not leading anyone close to the truth.

This is fixable.

457 erik_t  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 7:50:42am

Up is down! Black is white! re: #439 Killgore Trout

The burden of proof is on the accuser. Can Obama prove he's not a pedophile? Should he be required to just because some nut makes the allegation?

Romney said that he paid 'a great deal of taxes' without backing it up. So.... derp.

You really make me sad. I used to respect your arguments, even when I did not agree.

458 dragonath  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 7:52:01am

re: #446 lawhawk

Some of this appears to be part of a larger problem with Medicare fraud, and some of it seems to be related to judgment calls by the doctors and then by those investigating/auditing the claims.

Unnecessary procedures can drive up the costs of care for everyone and increase the risks to those on which the procedures are carried out.

Medicare Fraud: There's a "kernal" of healthcare expertise but they spend most of their time punching unneccesary holes through people's hearts.

459 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 7:53:44am

re: #452 Killgore Trout

Neither of these two statements should be controversial.
1) it is true that Obama is suing over early voting in Ohio. That is true and verifiable.
2) Mitt's conclusion that Obama's suit is to discount military votes is a lie.

So where's the kernel of truth in Romney's claim? The fact that there is a lawsuit? If so then there's no differentiation from Reid's claim that he heard something he can't substantiate or verify. Reid is accurately repeating information given to him, with the disclosure that the information might not be true. Romney is completely misrepresenting the entire purpose, scope and remedies sought by the DOJ lawsuit. Therefore Reid isn't lying, but Romney is.

460 jaunte  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 7:54:23am

Romney's secret tax returns problem was eminently foreseeable by any competent politician who knew years ago he intended to run for the Presidency.

If he is so unprepared for a political fight, he isn't great leadership material.

461 Gus  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 7:55:46am

If Harry Reid hurts Mitt Romney's feelings how can we expect him to go face to face with Vladamir Putin.

Mitt Romney: spineless leadership.

462 allegro  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 7:56:06am

re: #460 jaunte

Romney's secret tax returns problem was eminently foreseeable by any competent politician who knew years ago he intended to runhas been running for the Presidency for more than 5 years.

If he is so unprepared for a political fight, he isn't great leadership material.

fxt

463 erik_t  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 7:57:56am

re: #460 jaunte

If he is so unprepared for a political fight, he isn't great leadership material.

I contend we're well beyond the point of needing that 'if'.

464 makeitstop  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 7:58:08am

re: #461 Gus

If Harry Reid hurts Mitt Romney's feelings how can we expect him to go face to face with Vladamir Putin.

Mitt Romney: spineless leadership.

And if he tells a lie about Obama and won't even stand behind his own words, how can anyone trust any campaign promise that he makes - or anything that comes out of his mouth, for that matter?

I don't want a man with that little character anywhere near the White House. We deserve better.

465 dragonath  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 7:58:58am

Santorum, Bush, Paul to speak at GOP convention

The former Pennsylvania senator is one of four Republicans including former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush, Kentucky Sen. Rand Paul and Oklahoma Governor Mary Fallin, who will be announced Tuesday as primetime convention speakers. They join seven others who Republican National Committee Chairman Reince Priebus announced Monday would address the convention.

466 Gus  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 7:59:14am

Sticking To The Big Fib
Romney Camp Still Mum On Early OH Voting Rights

After falsely accusing the Obama campaign of working to restrict the voting rights of members of the military, Romney campaign aides still won’t say whether they believe Ohio cops, firefighters and veterans are worthy of early voting rights.

467 Decatur Deb  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 7:59:33am

re: #432 Gus

[Embedded content]

Table was just the right height.

468 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 8:00:02am
469 allegro  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 8:01:08am

re: #468 Learned Mother of Zion

[Embedded content]

I think generalizations of bigoted assholes is entirely fair... and accurate.

470 erik_t  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 8:02:20am

re: #468 Learned Mother of Zion

My moment of zen for the day.

471 dragonath  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 8:02:41am

I heard Mitt Romney has a kernal of humanity.

Here, let me show you how it runs:

100100101010011000100100100011010010001001...

472 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 8:02:51am

re: #421 Gus

[Embedded content]

Is this where the Romney's again claim Ann worked so very hard as a pampered, rich, stay-at-home mom while simultaneously denying states the leeway to make parenting activities count towards the welfare work requirement?

473 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 8:02:54am

re: #469 allegro

I think generalizations of bigoted assholes is entirely fair... and accurate.

I think they are worried that everyone will think they are such dumb assholes they can't tell the difference between Sikhs and Muslims.

474 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 8:04:09am

re: #472 goddamnedfrank

Is this where the Romney's again claim Ann worked so very hard as a pampered, rich, stay-at-home mom while simultaneously denying states the leeway to make parenting activities count towards the welfare work requirement?

Does the "work to welfare" also apply to welfare recipients who are already working?

475 allegro  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 8:04:28am

Well I'm off to visit the banker for some legal tax evasion stuff. Wait, no I'm not. It's the opposite. At 59-1/2 I have to start taking distributions from my IRA next month which means I have to PAY taxes. Maybe I should be talking to Romney instead?

476 erik_t  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 8:06:46am

re: #475 allegro

Well I'm off to visit the banker for some legal tax evasion stuff. Wait, no I'm not. It's the opposite. At 59-1/2 I have to start taking distributions from my IRA next month which means I have to PAY taxes. Maybe I should be talking to Romney instead?

THAT'S IT.

FOUR FIERY PINOCCHIOS, ASSHOLE.

477 makeitstop  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 8:07:31am

re: #466 Gus

Sticking To The Big Fib
Romney Camp Still Mum On Early OH Voting Rights

For a presidential campaign, they seem terrified of taking a stand on anything besides 'I'm not Obama.'

Take a goddamn stand on something for once, Mitt. Show some character.

478 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 8:09:21am

re: #477 makeitstop

For a presidential campaign, they seem terrified of taking a stand on anything besides 'I'm not Obama.'

Take a goddamn stand on something for once, Mitt. Show some character.

Yeah Mitt. What have you got to lose? Bryan Fischer already thinks you blow.

479 erik_t  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 8:09:30am

re: #477 makeitstop

Take a goddamn stand on something for once, Mitt. Show some character.

Mitt's showing his character every goddamned day, but I don't think that's quite what you meant.

480 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 8:10:59am

re: #474 Learned Mother of Zion

Does the "work to welfare" also apply to welfare recipients who are already working?

I don't know.

481 AK-47%  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 8:11:40am

Mitt made a tactical decision: namely that the flak he would get from not disclosing tax returns would be less than the damage they would cause by releasing them, and hoped that the issue would be swept away by the next 24-hour news cycle

Harry Ried also made a tactical decision: that the flak he would catch for his unsubstantiated claim would be worth it for keeping the attention on Mitt's AWOL returns.

It is ethically contemptible on his part, but politically shrewd.

This campaign is only gonna get uglier. What else can Mitt run on? His record as governor? His tenure at Bainß All he has to run on is is fear and hatred of Obama.

482 erik_t  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 8:14:08am

re: #481 Expand Your Ground

Harry Ried also made a tactical decision: that the flak he would catch for his unsubstantiated claim would be worth it for keeping the attention on Mitt's AWOL returns.

It is ethically contemptible on his part, but politically shrewd.

If Reid is telling the truth that his source(s) is reliable and did in fact tell him that Romney paid no taxes for a long period of time, it's not ethically contemptible to tell the American people. Quite a lot closer to the opposite.

If he's making it up, now we can talk reprehensible.

483 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 8:16:09am

re: #481 Expand Your Ground

Harry Ried also made a tactical decision: that the flak he would catch for his unsubstantiated claim would be worth it for keeping the attention on Mitt's AWOL returns.

I dont' think Reid made a tactical decision. I think he wandered into a lab full of caged monkeys and contracted the Rage virus.

484 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 8:19:20am

The latest wingnut rage meme.

485 GunstarGreen  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 8:20:55am

re: #452 Killgore Trout

Neither of these two statements should be controversial.
1) it is true that Obama is suing over early voting in Ohio. That is true and verifiable.
2) Mitt's conclusion that Obama's suit is to discount military votes is a lie.

KT, I often don't agree with you, but I respect your reasoning and argumentation. That said, you're better than this.

"The sky is blue, and Mitt Romney eats babies."

There's a true bit in there. That doesn't mean that statement has "a kernel of truth" to it. Certainly not enough to be judged as anything other than an outright lie.

The fact checkers are interested in keeping the horse race going, nothing more and nothing less.

486 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 8:22:06am

I dropped a deuce in their punchbowl:

487 GunstarGreen  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 8:23:55am

re: #484 Learned Mother of Zion

The latest wingnut rage meme.

Oh hey, Twitter being an insipid hive of nonsense and me-too-ism. Shocker there.

488 AK-47%  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 8:25:38am

re: #483 goddamnedfrank

I dont' think Reid made a tactical decision. I think he wandered into a lab full of caged monkeys and contracted the Rage virus.

Remember, Harry has little or nothing to lose: he is not likely to run for reelection in 2016, and decided he would take one for the team in making such an egregious statement.

489 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 8:25:40am

re: #481 Expand Your Ground

It is ethically contemptible on his part, but politically shrewd.

This campaign is only gonna get uglier.

QFT. The good news is that after November, strong accusations will again require strong evidence. I hope. I'm getting close to just ignoring the rest of the campaign. I'm already not voting for Mitt. It already won't matter how I vote California is unquestionably winner take all for Obama.

It's' not like the entertainment value is there. Apart from lessons about the media there is no real education to be had by following closely.

490 Mattand  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 8:26:22am

re: #485 GunstarGreen

KT, I often don't agree with you, but I respect your reasoning and argumentation. That said, you're better than this.

"The sky is blue, and Mitt Romney eats babies."

There's a true bit in there. That doesn't mean that statement has "a kernel of truth" to it. Certainly not enough to be judged as anything other than an outright lie.

The fact checkers are interested in keeping the horse race going, nothing more and nothing less.

QFT.

Insisting that Romney's "Obama is disenfranchising soldiers" accusation has a kernel of truth to it is a stretch that Plastic Man would be jealous of.

491 Gus  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 8:30:51am

re: #486 Learned Mother of Zion

I dropped a deuce in their punchbowl:

[Embedded content]

Cripes. Is that's a stupid hashtag if there ever was one.

492 lawhawk  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 8:30:56am

re: #489 Daniel Ballard

Accusations require no shred of evidence, let alone facts or truth. Repeat enough times, and it becomes ingrained as truth.

And I fear it's only going to get uglier if and when Obama wins reelection.

493 Gus  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 8:33:34am
494 Kronocide  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 8:33:45am

re: #452 Killgore Trout

Neither of these two statements should be controversial.
1) it is true that Obama is suing over early voting in Ohio. That is true and verifiable.
2) Mitt's conclusion that Obama's suit is to discount military votes is a lie.

1) Harry Reid says Romney is not showing his taxes.
2) Harry Reid says Romney hasn't paid his taxes in 10 years.

There is a kernel of truth in what Reid says. Actually, it's a fact, much more than a kernel of truth.

495 Killgore Trout  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 8:33:51am

re: #489 Daniel Ballard

QFT. The good news is that after November, strong accusations will again require strong evidence. I hope. I'm getting close to just ignoring the rest of the campaign. I'm already not voting for Mitt. It already won't matter how I vote California is unquestionably winner take all for Obama.

It's' not like the entertainment value is there. Apart from lessons about the media there is no real education to be had by following closely.

Agreed, I'm in the same boat. I still prefer Obama but his supporters aren't helping. I'm trying to not let them sour me on Obama, I don;t think I'd be any more welcome on Mitt's side anyways.

496 Eventual Carrion  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 8:36:02am

re: #265 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Oh ye of little faith. Marvin will yet prove you wrong.

But he will be very, very angry!

497 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 8:36:18am

re: #492 lawhawk

The soldier disenfranchisement comes as news to me this morning. What a ridiculous accusation. Trying to get everyone a few days to vote looks like a fantastic idea sure to help participation. Might put down those "vote Wednesday, the polls are overcrowded" phone calls than apparently many people are dumb or apathetic enough to believe. This will help people who work long hours vote, not just the poor and elderly.

i just wish I had my vote by mail ballot already. I'd like to vote and get my teensy tiny part of this election over with.

498 gwangung  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 8:38:55am

re: #497 Daniel Ballard

The soldier disenfranchisement comes as news to me this morning. What a ridiculous accusation. Trying to get everyone a few days to vote looks like a fantastic idea sure to help participation. Might put down those "vote Wednesday, the polls are overcrowded" phone calls than apparently many people are dumb or apathetic enough to believe. This will help people who work long hours vote, not just the poor and elderly.

No kidding. That's really something that everybody should be behind.

499 Killgore Trout  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 8:39:20am

Cairo: PM attacked at funeral of Sinai soldiers

The funeral was disrupted by hecklers who chanted against Egypt's new Islamist leaders, who have condemned the attack but may yet face a backlash against their plans to relax restrictions on Gaza border crossings.

"The Brotherhood and Hamas are one dirty hand," chanted some of the mourners.

According to Egyptian daily Al-Masry Al-Yom, vandals smashed Kandal's vehicle and pelted him with shoes.

500 AK-47%  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 8:39:32am

re: #497 Daniel Ballard

People should be allowed to vote absentee anytime up to the day of the election, the votes should simply not be tallied until election day.

I done made up my mind already, for chrissakes.

501 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 8:47:05am

Hello all.

I'm trying to ignore the fact that it is morning.

you?

502 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 8:51:23am

Gabby fell off the balance beam!

503 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 8:51:33am

speaking of Marvinspeaking of Marvin.

504 bratwurst  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 8:52:28am

re: #495 Killgore Trout

Agreed, I'm in the same boat. I still prefer Obama but his supporters aren't helping.

Oh noes!

Image: andthisitthe128638051046609867.jpg

505 Interesting Times  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 8:54:58am
506 simoom  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 9:01:04am

This seems to be an important point -- University of Florida law professor / fmr. Air Force officer Diane Mazur:

[Link: www.buzzfeed.com...]

The primary confusion is between in-person and absentee voting. There is a long history of accommodation for military and overseas voters to vote by absentee ballot, and this is settled. I am unaware, however, of any prior attempt by states or the federal government to grant extra voting privileges to service members voting in person, not absentee. ... The news reports ought to make more clear that this is a giant leap beyond any other kind of military voting accommodation. If you follow the statements of the military groups and Republican representatives closely, you'll see that they glide back and forth between references to absentee and in-person voting, realizing that their in-person arguments are without precedent, and without justification.

...

The idea that service members are fuller citizens than the rest of America is a disaster for military professionalism. Making reckless allegations that civilians are trying to disenfranchise service members is one of the most destructive things you can do to the military. That's another message that is being lost here. We have raised a generation of service members and veterans who completely believe the falsehood that some civilians don't want them to vote, and our civil-military relations are worse for it.

A lot of folks seem to blur UOCAVA's voting accommodations for overseas military and what's going on in Ohio, which only concerns in-state, in-person voting.

By stripping those three days of in-person early voting from most citizens, and restoring it only to current members of the military and their families, the GOP seems to have created the bizarre situation where the polls will be open, on those days, in Ohio, only for this new special class of citizens. As has been pointed out elsewhere, it's interesting that if we're going to create some 'Starship Troopers'-like upgraded citizenship, you'd think they might have included non-active-duty veterans -- instead they stripped that period of in-person early voting from vets, first responders, etc, as well as most everyone else.

In other words, if you're going through the trouble of opening polling locations (staffing them, getting equipment out & ready, turning the lights on, etc), what possible excuse is there for not letting every citizen in?

507 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 9:02:53am

have to accomplish something .. .

bbl

508 dragonath  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 9:08:11am

Koch brothers slam 'guy who makes obscene gestures with a monkey'

(CNN) - Actor Zach Galifianakis may be known for his less-than family-friendly sense of humor, but billionaires David and Charles Koch demonstrated Tuesday they don't find him so funny.

The comedian is co-starring with Will Ferrell in the upcoming comedy, "The Campaign," which features a pair of wealthy donors called the "Motch brothers," played by Dan Aykroyd and John Lithgow.

Awesome.

509 AK-47%  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 9:09:08am

re: #508 Fred Galt

Koch brothers slam 'guy who makes obscene gestures with a monkey'

Awesome.

Grey eminences do not like it when people call attention to their presence.

510 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 9:11:18am

Aly Raisman wins the gold!

511 Kronocide  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 9:12:01am

re: #508 Fred Galt

Koch brothers slam 'guy who makes obscene gestures with a monkey'

Awesome.

I'm already a big fan of Ferrel and Galifianakis but now it's a must see.

512 makeitstop  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 9:12:57am

Former Republican Governor: Romney Is Afraid To Stand Up To His Right-Wing Base

Former New Jersey Gov. Christie Todd Whitman (R) said Mitt Romney must do a better job of standing up to the radical elements of the Republican party and criticized her party’s nominee for not speaking out when an audience jeered a gay soldier during a September debate.

...

Indeed, Romney has repeatedly refused to criticize the right-wing, ducking opportunities to condemn Rep. Michele Bachmann’s (R-MN) Islamophobic which hunt against a Hillary Clinton aide and refusing to directly repudiate Donald Trump’s claims that President Obama was born in Kenya. He also wouldn’t decry Rush Limbaugh for calling Sandra Fluke a “slut” or speak out against social conservatives who opposed his decision to hire an openly-gay national security spokesperson.

'Afraid' is an acceptable term. 'Terrified' may be a little closer to the truth, though.

513 lawhawk  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 9:13:08am

Wisconsin shooter may have acted alone, but had no problem exhorting others to start acting upon their white supremacist beliefs.

Wade Michael Page played in white supremacist heavy metal bands and posted frequent comments on Internet forums for skinheads, repeatedly exhorting members to act more decisively to support their cause.

"If you are wanting to meet people, get involved and become active," he wrote last year. "Stop hiding behind the computer or making excuses."

A day after Page strode into a Sikh temple with a 9mm handgun and multiple magazines of ammunition, authorities were trying to determine if the 40-year-old Army veteran was taking his own advice when he opened fire on total strangers in a house of worship.

Detectives cautioned they might never know for sure. But the picture of Page that began to develop Monday — found in dark corners of the Internet, in records from a dodgy Army career and throughout a life lived on the margins — suggested he was a white supremacist who wanted to see his beliefs advanced with action.

Page, who was shot to death by police, described himself as a member of the "Hammerskins Nation," a skinhead group rooted in Texas that has branches in Australia and Canada, according to the SITE Monitoring Service, a Maryland-based private intelligence firm that searches the Internet for extremist activity.

Between March 2010 and the middle of this year, Page posted 250 messages on one skinhead site and appeared eager to recruit others. In March 2011, he advertised for a "family friendly" barbecue in North Carolina, imploring others to attend.

514 makeitstop  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 9:15:49am

re: #497 Daniel Ballard

The soldier disenfranchisement comes as news to me this morning. What a ridiculous accusation.

That's been the bone of contention over the lawsuit from the beginning - that granting equal early voting rights for all Ohioans was somehow 'limiting military voting rights.'

No one has given me a satisfactory explanation of how that works - and Romney's campaign is dodging questions about it, as has become their pathetic standard.

515 erik_t  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 9:19:32am

re: #514 makeitstop

No one has given me a satisfactory explanation of how that works - and Romney's campaign is dodging questions about it, as has become their pathetic standard.

Romney dodges questions about everything. It's like he wants to become the first Sound Bite President, communicating to the unwashed masses only through paid advertisements.

Throw a press conference from time to time, you coward.

516 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 9:21:13am

Iran Blames US for Iranians Kidnapped in Syria

Iran says it is holding the United States responsible for the lives of 48 Iranians kidnapped Saturday in Syria.

State-run media say the Foreign Ministry told the Swiss envoy in Tehran that it expects the U.S. to use its influence to secure their release without any preconditions. Switzerland represents U.S. interests in Iran because Washington and Tehran do not have diplomatic relations.

Iran says the 48 abducted by rebels in Damascus were religious pilgrims, but a brigade commander with the rebel Free Syrian Army described them as elite Revolutionary Guards on a "reconnaissance mission."

Good morning lizards!

517 erik_t  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 9:22:51am

Drip, drip, drip.

Mitt and Ann Romney were easily able to afford a $12-million La Jolla home. But that didn't insulate them from the winds buffeting the real estate market in the months following their purchase in 2008. After paying cash for the Mediterranean-style house with 61 feet of beach frontage, they asked San Diego County for dramatic property tax relief.

...

They also filed an appeal for the 2010 tax year, claiming the house had dropped further, to $7.5 million, 38.7% less than the home's assessed value. As a result, the Romneys have saved about $109,000 in property taxes over four years.

518 GunstarGreen  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 9:24:52am

re: #514 makeitstop

That's been the bone of contention over the lawsuit from the beginning - that granting equal early voting rights for all Ohioans was somehow 'limiting military voting rights.'

No one has given me a satisfactory explanation of how that works - and Romney's campaign is dodging questions about it, as has become their pathetic standard.

Limiting the rights of the military to be an ordained super-class of uber-citizens that have rights above and beyond those of their civilian counterparts.

Or you could just go for Occam's Razor and say that it's right-wingers once again asserting that absolutely everything the democrats do is inherently evil, by virtue of being actions taken by democrats.

519 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 9:25:39am

re: #516 NJDhockeyfan

Iran Blames US for Iranians Kidnapped in Syria

Good morning lizards!

Heh

Send an angry letter demanding the Iranians return Gilad Shalit.

520 blueraven  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 9:26:00am

re: #517 erik_t

Drip, drip, drip.

You know, I just dont consider this a big deal. I have done the same thing many times.
If I feel my property has been over evaluated, I have challenged and won.

521 erik_t  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 9:29:39am

re: #520 blueraven

You know, I just dont consider this a big deal. I have done the same thing many times.
If I feel my property has been over evaluated, I have challenged and won.

I don't think what he did in this case is wrong. I do think that it will continue to reinforce the image of Romney as someone who has no interest in paying his share, whether or not that is true.

522 Sionainn  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 9:32:37am

re: #520 blueraven

You know, I just dont consider this a big deal. I have done the same thing many times.
If I feel my property has been over evaluated, I have challenged and won.

I know that my property was over-evaluated after the housing market tanked in Las Vegas. I thought about disputing it, then decided that I would not because the schools were having to cut so much already that they needed every penny they could get from taxpayers.

523 blueraven  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 9:33:01am

re: #521 erik_t

I don't think what he did in this case is wrong. I do think that it will continue to reinforce the image of Romney as someone who has no interest in paying his share, whether or not that is true.

Perhaps, but this is an option available to anyone who owns property.
I didn't need an attorney or any paid representative.

The issue of income taxes is quite a bit different. It is skewed to benefit the wealthy. There are legal loopholes that do allow them to pay a much smaller rate.

524 blueraven  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 9:35:05am

re: #522 Sionainn

I know that my property was over-evaluated after the housing market tanked in Las Vegas. I thought about disputing it, then decided that I would not because the schools were having to cut so much already that they needed every penny they could get from taxpayers.

I have had years when my property evaluation almost doubled. That is when I appealed. Not when it was a pretty fair valuation, even though maybe a bit high.

525 DREd  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 9:39:52am

The wingnutosphere is going gaga over this. Finally, proof that Obama didn't go to Columbia. Or he did go to Columbia, but he was secretly Indonesian at the time. Or something.

[Link: www.rootforamerica.com...]

526 Obdicut  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 9:43:30am

re: #525 DREd

[Link: www.snopes.com...]

Although Barack Obama may not have been particularly social or memorable during his years at Columbia, it isn't true that "no one ever came forward from Obama's past saying they knew him, attended school with him, was his friend, etc." Those who have attested to having daily personal experience with him during his time at that school include:

Friend and roommate Sohale Siddiqi, whom the Associated Press located and interviewed in May 2008.

Roommate Phil Boerner, who provided his recollections of sharing a New York City apartment with classmate Barack Obama to the Columbia College Today alumni publication and the New York Times in early 2009.

Michael L. Baron, who taught the year-long honors seminar in American Foreign Policy that Barack Obama took during his senior year at Columbia and recalled in an NBC interview Obama's "easily acing" the class and receiving an A for his senior paper on the topic of nuclear negotiations with the Soviet Union.

527 The Left  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 9:43:51am

The wingnuts are hitting hard on the ridiculous demand that Obama release his college transcripts before Romney has to release his tax returns....

[Link: www.memeorandum.com...]

All part of the Romney pattern: whenever someone demands he release tax returns, he always has a demand to be met first-- like demanding that his opponent's husband release his.

528 Shropshire_Slasher  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 9:44:27am

Ok, dumb health question of the day. I recently read that cauliflower is good for you (duh!) and may help fight cancer. Reading wiki, it is an estrogen antagonist. I don't know what that means. Will my moobs get bigger or smaller?

529 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 9:44:51am

Left-wing moonbat Sean Penn completed his Anger Management class and is now helping his BFF try to get re-elected.

Sean Penn joins Chavez on campaign in Venezuela

(Reuters) - U.S. actor Sean Penn joined President Hugo Chavez at an election rally in Venezuela on Sunday, bringing a dash of Hollywood to the campaign as he rode with him atop a truck past cheering supporters.

Penn is a friend of Chavez, who hopes to win a new six-year term on October 7. The campaign has turned into the toughest fight of the president's political career.

"Thank you very much for visiting us again, dear friend," Chavez said after introducing Penn to the big crowd in the central city of Valencia. "We're all Americans, from the north, the center, the south. Long live the American continent!"

Penn, in a white shirt and sunglasses and accompanied by Argentine producer Fernando Sulichin, waved from the stage, fist-bumped and hugged Chavez, but did not address the rally.

Heh.

530 sattv4u2  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 9:45:14am

re: #528 Tommy's cone of shame

Will my moobs get bigger or smaller?

You'll always be a big boob in my eyes!!

/

531 erik_t  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 9:45:20am

re: #527 Millicent Islam

The wingnuts are hitting hard on the ridiculous demand that Obama release his college transcripts before Romney has to release his tax returns....

[Link: www.memeorandum.com...]

All part of the Romney pattern: whenever someone demands he release tax returns, he always has a demand to be met first-- like demanding that his opponent's husband release his.

Let's compromise. Obama has to release his tax returns before Romney releases his tax returns.

oh.

532 Sionainn  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 9:47:41am

re: #525 DREd

The wingnutosphere is going gaga over this. Finally, proof that Obama didn't go to Columbia. Or he did go to Columbia, but he was secretly Indonesian at the time. Or something.

[Link: www.rootforamerica.com...]

As a Las Vegas native, I had to look up the Las Vegas Walk of Stars. Didn't even know we had such a thing. It looks like something that was started in 2004 and over half the names are unrecognizable to me. LOL.

533 sattv4u2  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 9:47:52am

re: #531 erik_t

Let's compromise. Obama has to release his tax returns before Romney releases his tax returns.

oh.

Lets REALLY compromise

Lets talk about the economy, health care, terrorism both globally and at home, health care and forget all about birth certificates, college days and tax returns from a decade ago

534 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 9:48:12am

re: #528 Tommy's cone of shame

Ok, dumb health question of the day. I recently read that cauliflower is good for you (duh!) and may help fight cancer. Reading wiki, it is an estrogen antagonist. I don't know what that means. Will my moobs get bigger or smaller?

Youtube Video
535 Sionainn  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 9:49:25am

re: #533 sattv4u2

Lets REALLY compromise

Lets talk about the economy, health care, terrorism both globally and at home, health care and forget all about birth certificates, college days and tax returns from a decade ago

I agree with everything except the tax returns which I believe Romney should release.

536 The Left  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 9:49:54am

re: #533 sattv4u2

Lets REALLY compromise

Lets talk about the economy, health care, terrorism both globally and at home, health care and forget all about birth certificates, college days and tax returns from a decade ago

But if we did that, Obama would win by even more than he's going to.

537 Killgore Trout  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 9:50:54am

re: #533 sattv4u2

Lets REALLY compromise

Lets talk about the economy, health care, terrorism both globally and at home, health care and forget all about birth certificates, college days and tax returns from a decade ago

...and dogs, wives, religion, likeability, haircuts, etc. All complete nonsense. It's no wonder our political system is a mess.

538 makeitstop  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 9:54:08am

re: #533 sattv4u2

Lets REALLY compromise

Lets talk about the economy, health care, terrorism both globally and at home, health care and forget all about birth certificates, college days and tax returns from a decade ago

You had me right up to 'tax returns.'

It's customary for presidential candidates to release their tax returns, and if Mittens wants to play he's gotta pony up. I see no good reason to let him skate.

539 Big Steve  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 9:57:14am

re: #535 Sionainn

Since he has released his past two year's returns, I presume you mean more than that.

540 makeitstop  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 10:00:23am

re: #539 Big Steve

Since he has released his past two year's returns, I presume you mean more than that.

Actually, he released one, and one is on the way.

12 is a good round number. His dad released 12 years' worth, as did Obama.

To quote Mittens himself, 'What's sauce for the goose...'

541 jaunte  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 10:00:57am

Vote for the man who has no plan.

Tax Returns and Now Tax Policy—What’s Mitt Romney Hiding?

You'd think Mitt Romney's campaign would be happy about the report this week by the Tax Policy Center—the demands for the former Massachusetts governor to release more of his tax returns have finally been quieted. Of course they're none too pleased that the obsession with his making public more tax returns has been replaced by calls for him to release more of his tax plans.

Romney's tax plan contemplates an across the board 20 percent tax cut, among other things. He and his people swear that the plan would be revenue neutral—it would not cause the budget deficit to further balloon—because while he cut rates he would also close loopholes. Which ones? He has pointedly not said, and scoffed whenever any independent groups tried to run the numbers to figure out how his plan would work. "It can't be scored because those kind of details have to be worked out with Congress and we have a wide array of options," he told CNBC in March. How could he be sure that his tax plan is revenue neutral if the details haven't been worked out yet? You'll just have to trust him on this.

542 simoom  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 10:02:55am

re: #525 DREd

The wingnutosphere is going gaga over this. Finally, proof that Obama didn't go to Columbia. Or he did go to Columbia, but he was secretly Indonesian at the time. Or something.

[Link: www.rootforamerica.com...]

Yeah, CNBC was a total embarrassment on this today. First they had king-birther Trump on who was pushing the 'college transcripts' BS and then in their write-up about his appearance they did this:

[Link: www.cnbc.com...]

Doubts over the president's collegiate background rose again this week in a column in The Blaze written by Wayne Allyn Root, who said he was classmate of Obama's at Columbia. Root claims "Obama has a secret hidden at Columbia."

Among his allegations are that the president often missed class, had grades that were not befitting an entrant to Harvard Law School and went to the school as a foreign exchange student and thus was eligible for substantial financial aid.

...

Trump's allegations, meanwhile, could get an even bigger sounding board. He said he has been asked to speak at the Republican National Convention in Tampa from Aug. 27-30.

So they appeal to authority by calling Wayne Allyn Root a "classmate of Obama's", link to his BS Blaze article and repeat his allegations without saying his evidence for them involves having never seen or heard of Obama at Columbia and his gut feeling...

From W.A.R.'s Blaze article:

I am President Obama’s classmate at Columbia University, Class of ’83. I am also one of the most accurate Las Vegas oddsmakers and prognosticators. Accurate enough that I was awarded my own star on the Las Vegas Walk of Stars. And I smell something rotten in Denmark. Obama has a big skeleton in his closet. It’s his college records. Call it “gut instinct” but my gut is almost always right.

...

Why are the college records, of a 51-year-old President of the United States, so important to keep secret? I think I know the answer.

If anyone should have questions about Obama’s record at Columbia University, it’s me. We both graduated (according to Obama) Columbia University, Class of ’83. We were both (according to Obama) Pre-Law and Political Science majors. And I thought I knew most everyone at Columbia. I certainly thought I’d heard of all of my fellow Political Science majors. But not Obama (or as he was known then- Barry Soetoro). I never met him. Never saw him. Never even heard of him. And none of the classmates that I knew at Columbia have ever met him, saw him, or heard of him.

...

Here’s my gut belief: Obama got a leg up by being admitted to both Occidental and Columbia as a foreign exchange student. He was raised as a young boy in Indonesia. But did his mother ever change him back to a U.S. citizen? When he returned to live with his grandparents in Hawaii or as he neared college-age preparing to apply to schools, did he ever change his citizenship back? I’m betting not.

If you could unseal Obama’s Columbia University records I believe you’d find that:

A) He rarely ever attended class.

B) His grades were not those typical of what we understand it takes to get into Harvard Law School.

C) He attended Columbia as a foreign exchange student.

D) He paid little for either undergraduate college or Harvard Law School because of foreign aid and scholarships given to a poor foreign students like this kid Barry Soetoro from Indonesia.

So he admits he didn't know Obama, that he never even heard of him, and all of these wild accusations are based on his gut-belief, and CNBC feels this is credible enough to promote as new "doubts over the president's collegiate background"?...

543 Kragar  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 10:04:17am

Wingnuts finally show concern about Arpaio's Prison Camp

Over the last few weeks, Arizona pastor Michael Salman has become a Religious Right cause célèbre and the current poster boy for religious persecution. In the Religious Right's version of events, Salman has supposedly been harassed and persecuted by local officials for years simply because he wanted to hold bible study meetings at his home.

In reality, Salman had been attempting to illegally build a church in his back yard and was found guilty of dozens of code violations, resulting in a sixty day jail sentence, which Salman is now serving ... and about which his supporters are now complaining:

Pastor Michael Salman is serving his 60-day sentence for holding a home Bible study in Tent City Jail, a prison compound in Maricopa County, Ariz. The Phoenix pastor’s attorney describes conditions there as similar to the infamous Guantanamo Bay detention camp in Cuba.

“This is where you would put Osama bin Laden, not Michael Salman,” says Rutherford Institute founder and attorney John Whitehead in an interview yesterday with International Christian Concern (ICC).

“The temperature there has been around 140 degrees, and there is no air conditioning. They’re [living] in tents. They have stun fences … barbed wire … large German shepherds walking the perimeter, armed guards and facial recognition software so that the prisoners are studied all the time.”

According to Whitehead, Salman has reported being imprisoned with “really hardened criminals.” He is unsure why the pastor has been specifically sent to Tent City. In late June, the jail was the focus of thousands of protesters who gathered outside the Maricopa County Sherriff’s office to express their disapproval of the allegedly prison camp-like conditions.

It should be noted that this Guantanamo-like prison camp in which Salman is currently serving his time just so happens to be the system set up by the Right's hero, "America's Toughest Sheriff," and Birther extraordinaire Joe Arpaio.

Oddly, nobody on the Right seemed particularly concerned about the conditions in the compound until now.

544 Big Steve  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 10:06:26am

re: #540 makeitstop

Actually, he released one, and one is on the way.

He released 2010 and 2011....Tax Musuem

545 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 10:08:00am

re: #541 jaunte

Vote for the man who has no plan.

Tax Returns and Now Tax Policy—What’s Mitt Romney Hiding?

His plan would cut defnese spending and healthcare spending 100% to make it revenue neutral... until the GOP House puts it all back in as part of their new "NO DEAL" for the American people.

This will be followed by the American 99%er Servitude Act of 2013, which will go by the nickname of the "RAW DEAL".
///
///

546 Kragar  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 10:08:07am

re: #544 Big Steve

He released 2010 and 2011....Tax Musuem

OK, so we judge his entire business experience which he keeps touting just for the years of 2010 and 2011.

547 simoom  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 10:08:17am

re: #542 simoom

Also worth noting, Root has been pushing these conspiracy theories since the 2008 election, only back then he presented them wrapped in racial grievance politics:

[Link: reason.com...]

Root:"A vote for Obama is four years of Karl Marx, and no one should be happy about that," he told us and a few genial young libertarian activists over cocktails. "He's a communist! I don't care what anybody says. The guy's a communist.... And his mother was a card-carrying communist, and he says she's the most important person in his entire life; he learned everything from her." [...]

Root: And I'd be willing to bet every dime I have in the world, a million dollars I'll put, I'll put a million dollars cash on the fact—

Welch: This is on the record—

Root: —that my GPA was better than Barack's—

Welch: Oooooh.

Root: ...and he got in based on the color of his skin.

Does anyone doubt that possibly Barack could have gotten into Harvard with a C average because he's black, where as I, white, couldn't get into the same school with a B-plus, A-minus average? And yet his wife says that America is a terrible nation unfair to minorities! I say, Au contraire!

I say the whole problem with America is we are racist against people because of the color of their skin. We're helping people because they're black. We're helping people because they're minority. We're helping people because they're poor. In reality only those who have the most skill and talent should get into Harvard, not because of the color of their skin.

So now I ask out loud in the press, I challenge my classmate to give his GPA against mine. And let's see if he really is the bright guy they all say he is. What if we discover he got into Harvard with a C average? Is he then the brilliant man America thinks he is? That would be a very good question, don't you think?

548 Kragar  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 10:09:39am

Romney Ad Attacks Obama On Welfare Flexibility Romney Championed

A new ad by Mitt Romney attacks President Obama’s directive to let states test new ways to implement welfare reform. But as governor of Massachusetts, Romney himself pushed the federal government for a similar policy.

“On July 12th, President Obama quietly announced a plan to gut welfare reform by dropping work requirements,” a narrator in the Romney ad says.

In 2005, Romney and 28 other Republican governors wrote a letter to Congress requesting even more flexibility than Obama has offered, for the purpose of “[e]mpowering states to seek new and innovative solutions to help welfare recipients achieve independence.”

“Increased waiver authority, allowable work activities, availability of partial work credit and the ability to coordinate state programs are all important aspects of moving recipients from welfare to work,” read the letter, which was co-signed by prominent GOP governors like Tim Pawlenty, Rick Perry, Mitch Daniels, Jeb Bush, Haley Barbour, Mike Huckabee and Jon Huntsman

549 makeitstop  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 10:10:21am

re: #544 Big Steve

He released 2010 and 2011....Tax Musuem

Okay, I stand corrected.

10 more and we're good.

550 Interesting Times  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 10:10:27am

re: #544 Big Steve

He released 2010 and 2011....Tax Musuem

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Here's Christopher Bergin, the President of Taxanalysts, the group that runs the taxhistory.org website.

Total wingnut.

551 Big Steve  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 10:12:36am

re: #546 Kragar

OK, so we judge his entire business experience which he keeps touting just for the years of 2010 and 2011.

I am not sure how to judge anyone's business acumen by their tax returns. I try to sell all my dog stocks late in the year to balance out capital gains. Anyone looking at my return would think I am a pretty crappy investor.

552 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 10:14:04am

re: #538 makeitstop

You had me right up to 'tax returns.'

It's customary for presidential candidates to release their tax returns, and if Mittens wants to play he's gotta pony up. I see no good reason to let him skate.

They become doubly relevant when the candidate and their party are running on the economic thesis that the ultra wealthy pay too much in taxes already, to the detriment of job creation. To then hide one's returns because they give lie to the argument is incredibly unethical.

553 Eventual Carrion  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 10:14:42am

re: #544 Big Steve

He released 2010 and 2011....Tax Musuem

2011 is a estimate I believe. He filed an extension of those returns.

554 Big Steve  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 10:15:20am

re: #550 Interesting Times

I couldn't care less about the site. Do you think he invented Romney's returns? Two years worth of returns are available to review. Whether he should release more is a fair question.

555 blueraven  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 10:15:55am

re: #553 RayFerd

2011 is a estimate I believe. He filed an extension of those returns.

That is correct. The 2011 return has not been filed and is an estimate.

556 Eventual Carrion  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 10:15:56am

re: #547 simoom

Also worth noting, Root has been pushing these conspiracy theories since the 2008 election, only back then he presented them wrapped in racial grievance politics:

[Link: reason.com...]

Hey Root, I have a gut feeling you are a fucking moron. And my gut feelings are usually right.

557 dragonath  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 10:16:36am

It should be noted that the tax return(s) that Romney did release, from 2010, is incomplete.

558 Kragar  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 10:16:46am

Louisiana School Forces Students to Take Pregnancy Tests, Kicks Out Girls Who Refuse Or Test Positive

One Louisiana school is dealing with the state’s high rates of teen pregnancy by taking an “out of sight, out of mind” approach. No pregnant students are welcome at Delhi Charter School in Delhi, Louisiana — a policy that the institution enforces by requiring students who are “suspected” of being pregnant to submit to a mandatory pregnancy test.

If students are pregnant, they are no longer allowed to attend classes on the school’s campus and will be forced to either switch to another school or begin a home school program. If a student refuses to take the test, she is “treated as a pregnant student” and also kicked out of Delhi Charter School, according to the student handbook:

559 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 10:16:48am

re: #544 Big Steve

He released 2010 and 2011....Tax Musuem

2011 is an estimate. He filed an extension.

Romney has released his tax return from 2010 and an estimate from 2011. He has vowed to release his full 2011 return once it's completed, but he will not release past years', as previous presidential candidates have done.

560 blueraven  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 10:19:35am

re: #554 Big Steve

I couldn't care less about the site. Do you think he invented Romney's returns? Two years worth of returns are available to review. Whether he should release more is a fair question.

It is an estimate
read the bottom of each page on the 2011 return

Form prepared based on best available estimate, which will be appropriately updated prior to filing. See statement A

[Link: www.taxhistory.org...]

561 Obdicut  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 10:21:23am

re: #559 goddamnedfrank

And Romney did not release his foreign holdings form.

562 makeitstop  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 10:22:21am

Estimate?

Okay, I'm back to 11 more. Put up or shut up, Moneybags.

563 Eventual Carrion  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 10:22:38am

re: #561 Obdicut

And Romney did not release his foreign holdings form.

{big ass red light and siren}
Funny that.

564 Big Steve  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 10:23:00am

What he filed for 2011 is not an estimate....it is called an "in Process". I have had to do this a couple of times. All the information is accurate but you cannot complete until final information comes your way that you consider marginal in value. His return is waiting for form 8865 which is for foreign partnerships that typically are from countries that have different filing dates. He is also waiting for a form 926 which is for transfer of foreign property.

565 blueraven  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 10:25:25am

re: #564 Big Steve

What he filed for 2011 is not an estimate....it is called an "in Process". I have had to do this a couple of times. All the information is accurate but you cannot complete until final information comes your way that you consider marginal in value. His return is waiting for form 8865 which is for foreign partnerships that typically are from countries that have different filing dates. He is also waiting for a form 926 which is for transfer of foreign property.

Bullshit. It is an estimate.

566 Obdicut  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 10:25:28am

re: #564 Big Steve

He also didn't, for 2010, share his Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts form.

So he hasn't actually released his full tax statement for any year.

Given that we're having a national discussion about tax policy, and given that Mitt Romney has proposed an unworkable and fictitious tax and spending plan that would balloon the deficit while benefiting the ultra-wealthy hugely, I think that Romney's tax returns are highly relevant from a number of standpoints.

567 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 10:26:19am

re: #554 Big Steve

I couldn't care less about the site. Do you think he invented Romney's returns? Two years worth of returns are available to review. Whether he should release more is a fair question.

Wait, You're the guy who believes this ridiculous partisan website over multiple primary news sources.

Sad.

568 Obdicut  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 10:28:25am

re: #564 Big Steve

Did you ever acknowledge that you were very wrong about the number of tax returns released by candidates in past years?

569 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 10:30:32am

It must suck for a wingnut when people don't mindlessly believe their twice warmed over pig ignorance and then have the temerity to counter with actual facts.

570 Kragar  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 10:30:34am

GOP Lawmaker: Planned Parenthood Is ‘Getting Wealthy On Murder For Hire’

State Rep. Larry Pittman (R) had a strong reaction to a recent email from Planned Parenthood that appealed state legislators not to cut funding to the organization. Pittman responded to the email, which was sent to each member of the NC House of Representatives Health and Human Services Appropriations committee at the end of May, with allegations that Planned Parenthood is a “murderous organization”:

PITTMAN: [Planned Parenthood] is a murderous organization…getting wealthy on murder for hire. It deals out nothing but deception, death, personal devastation, and moral degradation. Never will I agree to give that bloody, indecent, immoral organization one penny. I will not be satisfied until it is outlawed.

North Carolina’s Planned Parenthood clinics are facing budget cuts that will essentially serve to defund the organization, a tactic that Republicans across the country are using to attack Planned Parenthood. The Republican-controlled legislature passed a budget in July that strips state funding for the organization and its affiliates.

Some North Carolina residents are criticizing Rep. Pittman’s harsh email response, pointing our that “regardless of anyone’s stance on abortion, the point of this story is how unprofessional and inappropriate our elected government official has acted.” When the Independent Tribune asked Pittman to comment on this criticism, he simply doubled down on his overblown rhetoric:

PITTMAN: My sources tell me that 75 percent of [Planned Parenthood’s] income comes through abortions. To say that they would try to reduce the incidence of abortion is like saying a baker would go around trying to get people to stop eating bread.

Pittman’s sources are wrong. Nationwide, abortion services contribute to just three percent of Planned Parenthood’s total health services. In North Carolina alone, Planned Parenthood’s health clinics provide over 18,000 tests for sexually transmitted infections, over 11,000 breast and cervical cancer screenings, and contraceptive services to more than 61,000 women.

This is not the first instance that Pittman, who is running unopposed for reelection in his district, has circulated his radical anti-choice views over email. In January, he sent an email to every member of North Carolina’s General Assembly to say he favors bringing back public hangings for abortion providers.

571 Mattand  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 10:30:54am

Explain to me again why Romney's taxes are a non-issue?

572 Kragar  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 10:31:23am

re: #571 Mattand

Explain to me again why Romney's taxes are a non-issue?

Because shut up.

573 dragonath  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 10:33:08am

It's really hard to give Romney the benefit of the doubt seeing how he skirted taxes in Italy by funneling his profits through Luxembourg during his tenure at Bain. And that was a public asset too, which makes it mega skeevy.

Romney is no better than a Russian oligarch.

574 blueraven  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 10:42:29am

Man Arrested at Ohio Dark Knight Rises Showing with Satchel Full of Weapons

A man in Ohio was arrested Saturday night after entering a showing of The Dark Knight Rises with a loaded gun, among other weapons.

According to police in North Ridgeville, Scott Smith, 37, had in his possession a satchel containing a Glock 9mm handgun, ammunition clips, and three knives. He had an additional knife strapped to his body.

Jeremiah Bullins, an off-duty police officer moonlighting as theater security, became suspicious after seeing Smith enter the Regal Cinema theater 30 minutes before the movie was scheduled to screen. He followed Smith into the theater and asked to search his bag.

[Link: gawker.com...]

575 Obdicut  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 10:44:19am

re: #574 blueraven

Holy shit. Nice catch by that cop.

576 Killgore Trout  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 10:49:49am

re: #574 blueraven

Man Arrested at Ohio Dark Knight Rises Showing with Satchel Full of Weapons

[Link: gawker.com...]

Shit.

577 Sionainn  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 10:59:00am

re: #539 Big Steve

Since he has released his past two year's returns, I presume you mean more than that.

He's released one year.

578 Patricia Kayden  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 11:22:02am

re: #538 makeitstop


Amen. No compromise.

579 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 12:05:57pm

re: #547 simoom

Also worth noting, Root has been pushing these conspiracy theories since the 2008 election, only back then he presented them wrapped in racial grievance politics:

[Link: reason.com...]

Nobody gets into Harvard with a C average. Maybe if they're, like, a former child soldier from the Congo who can also cure cancer by laying on hands.

580 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 12:07:25pm

re: #558 Kragar

Louisiana School Forces Students to Take Pregnancy Tests, Kicks Out Girls Who Refuse Or Test Positive

If some two-bit charter school imagines that I would ever allow my child to be forced to take a pregnancy test so they could keep their precious classes clean of gestating people...


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