Mendacious Mitt: Obama Did Not Abolish Welfare Work Requirements

Romney’s lie of the day
Politics • Views: 33,315

At this point it’s obvious that the Romney campaign has made a strategic decision to completely abandon even the pretense of being truthful about President Obama. They’re going for broke — telling outright, easily debunked lies, deceptively editing videos to change the meaning of Obama’s words, and refusing to back down or even acknowledge it when called out.

And the new ad from the Romney campaign is yet another example. The basis of the advertisement, that Obama dropped the work requirement from welfare laws, is a flat out lie.

Steve Benen has the facts behind this utterly dishonest advertisement: The Scandal Behind Romney’s New Attack Ad.

For those who can’t watch clips online, the ad shows President Clinton signing welfare reform into law in 1996, “requiring work for welfare.” The spot then argues, however, that President Obama “quietly announced a plan to gut welfare reform by dropping work requirements.” The voiceover tells viewers, “Under Obama’s plan, you wouldn’t have to work and wouldn’t have to train for a job. They just send you your welfare check…. and welfare to work goes back to being plain old welfare.”

We then learn, “Mitt Romney will restore the work requirement because it works.”

Romney’s lying. He’s not spinning the truth to his advantage; he’s not hiding in a gray area between fact and fiction; he’s just lying. The law hasn’t been “gutted”; the work requirement hasn’t been “dropped.” Stations that air this ad are disseminating an obvious, demonstrable lie.

All Obama did is agree to Republican governors’ request for flexibility. That’s it. Indeed, perhaps the most jaw-dropping aspect of this is that Romney himself, during his one gubernatorial term, asked for the same kind of flexibility on welfare law that Obama agreed to last month. Romney, in other words, is attacking the president for doing what Romney asked the executive branch to do in 2005.

The entire line of attack is simply insane.

Also see

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266 comments
1 Kragar  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 1:43:16pm

Mitt was for exactly what Obama is proposing before he was against it.

Mitt Romney loves the ’90s, apparently — he is making President Bill Clinton’s 1996 welfare reform bill the centerpiece of his campaign this week. But his accusations that President Obama is trying to “gut” the program by waiving its work requirements don’t jibe with the administration’s actual work guidelines. They also sidestep the fact that Romney himself supported such changes — he was just one of the Republicans who lent similar requests bipartisan support.

2 thecommodore  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 1:45:01pm

I think Mittens is angling for a job as a Fox "News" contributor - lots of exposure on Hannity's "Great American Panel" can be had - or maybe as a Breitbart blogger.

3 God of Binders with Women  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 1:45:17pm

I remember the freaks-out over this a couple of weeks ago. When I heard about it, I suspected that Obama had relaxed or eased the law at multiple governors' requests, not "gutted" it. Turns out that a Google search confirmed my curiosity in less than five seconds. I guess when you're running for POTUS, curiosity is a four-letter word, and when you think about it, that's really sad.

4 AK-47%  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 1:45:41pm

This is all Mitt has left to run on: fear and hatred of Obama. he cannot run on his record as a health care-mandating, pro-life governor, he cannot run on his tenure as an absentee, outsourcing CEO, he has no record of rising from humble origins. He can only hope to motivate the right wing with fear of a brown President

5 Bulworth  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 1:46:35pm

In addition to the lies and the hypocrisy demonstrated here, it also so happens that There Aren't Any Fecking Jobs to be had and the teabag Congress doesn't want the Fed to do anything about unemployment, which is one of the Fed's two mandates. And of course all the teabag Congress wants to do is pass legislation outlawing abortion and repealing HCR. Again and again.

6 erik_t  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 1:48:05pm

Hey! Media. Wake the fuck up. Do your fucking job.

7 Bulworth  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 1:48:10pm
He can only hope to motivate the right wing with fear of a brown President

Young bucks buying steaks and Welfare queens, etc. /

8 mr.fusion  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 1:48:23pm
Stations that air this ad are disseminating an obvious, demonstrable lie.

At what point do the stations bear responsibility for airing blatant falsehoods?

Why don't they just say no? Do they really think the campaigns won't just make a new ad and spend the exact same amount of money?

9 Kragar  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 1:49:52pm

Number of times Congress has voted to repeal ACA vs number of Jobs Bills brought up for a vote:

[Link: s3.amazonaws.com...]

10 blueraven  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 1:50:41pm
Of the five states that have so far expressed interest in receiving waivers, two of them, Utah and Nevada, have Republican governors. The other states are California, Connecticut and Minnesota, according to the Health and Human Services Department.

State support of waivers is not a new phenomenon. In 2005, 29 Republican governors, including Mr. Romney and Mr. Huckabee, asked Senator Bill Frist, the majority leader, for more “flexibility to manage their TANF programs and effectively serve low-income populations.”

Hypocrites and liars

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

11 Bulworth  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 1:52:12pm
Tommy Thompson, now a Senate candidate in Wisconsin, wrote an op-ed condemning the Obama administration’s waivers despite having proposed state welfare waivers while serving as George W. Bush’s HHS secretary in 2003.

It makes sense for Republicans to support waivers. It was governors in the 1980s – and in particular (pdf) Thompson, who served for 14 years as governor of Wisconsin – whose initial experiments with waiver-based welfare reforms paved the way to the federal reform law in 1996. As Ezra could tell you, this is hardly the first time a previously widely held Republican policy position has become anathema almost overnight, but it’s a stark change nonetheless.

Heh indeedy.

12 erik_t  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 1:52:16pm

LOL.

begat

This is the good enough that we must protect from perfection.

13 Kragar  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 1:52:37pm

re: #10 blueraven

Hypocrites and liars

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

Great, now I have to listen to Ministry. Thanks a bunch.
/

14 Gus  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 1:53:19pm

re: #10 blueraven

Hypocrites and liars

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

I have another word for that. Scum.

15 Bulworth  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 1:53:54pm

re: #6 erik_t

Hey! Media. Wake the fuck up. Do your fucking job.

Our 'liberal media' is like the ref at pro-wrestling matches, lecturing the one wrestler about elbowing his opponent while the wrestler's partner is being ganged up on behind the ref's back. etc.

16 AK-47%  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 1:54:33pm

re: #6 erik_t

Hey! Media. Wake the fuck up. Do your fucking job.

*ahem* their job, like Bain Capital, is to make money. They do so primarily by selling advdrtising time/space in their broadcasts/publications.

To do that, they attract readers with "content". They really do not seem to care about the content as long as it attracts more of their target audience, making their product more attractive to their customers, the advertisers.

17 Gus  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 1:55:07pm
18 engineer cat  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 1:56:37pm

desperate losing politician is losing and desperate

19 Kragar  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 1:56:43pm

And now for your daily dose of nightmare fuel...

Dying Star Screams As It Falls Into Black Hole

The stars... they scream.

20 AK-47%  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 1:58:45pm

re: #19 Kragar

And now for your daily dose of nightmare fuel...

Dying Star Screams As It Falls Into Black Hole

The stars... they scream.

In space, nobody can hear you scream...

21 Bulworth  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 1:59:19pm

re: #17 Gus

Team Romneybot must not realize there is a such a thing as teh Google...

22 Bulworth  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 2:02:51pm

Those people on welfare need to be publicly shamed. Drug tests! No voting rights for welfares!

23 Kragar  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 2:04:12pm

re: #18 engineer cat

desperate losing politician is losing and desperate

Image: Zoidberg.jpg

24 AK-47%  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 2:05:02pm

re: #22 Bulworth

Am all in favor of motivating people to get off welfare. But there are other motivators out there beyond shame or fear of unpleasant consequences. They are just a bit more complex and cannot be slapped about with a trowel.

25 Kronocide  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 2:06:59pm
They’re going for broke — telling outright, easily debunked lies, deceptively editing videos to change the meaning of Obama’s words, and refusing to back down or even acknowledge it when called out.

Why not? It's worked for the the other 89% of the GOP, the nutbar wing.

It's all propaganda all the time.

26 Bulworth  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 2:07:51pm

re: #24 Expand Your Ground

I was speaking

wingnut

.

27 Gus  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 2:08:52pm

re: #25 Kronocide

Why not? It's worked for the the other 89% of the GOP, the nutbar wing.

It's all propaganda all the time.

Straight out of the Breitbart cult.

28 Charles Johnson  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 2:08:59pm

re: #19 Kragar

And now for your daily dose of nightmare fuel...

Dying Star Screams As It Falls Into Black Hole

The stars... they scream.

In E flat.

29 AK-47%  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 2:09:52pm

re: #28 Charles Johnson

In E flat.

slap a capo on that thing, willya?

30 Kragar  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 2:14:04pm

re: #28 Charles Johnson

In E flat.

A D sharp they claim.

31 jaunte  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 2:15:58pm
The entire line of attack is simply insane.

Unless the politicians and helpers in question think of the majority of voters as incurious, uneducated, easily led rubes. This is the strategy that the Koch brothers have bought.

32 engineer cat  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 2:17:25pm

re: #28 Charles Johnson

In E flat.

that's to make it easier for the reed section

33 Kragar  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 2:19:33pm

Nasa scientist's study quantifies climate change link to extreme weather

Unusually hot summers, and the destructive droughts and wildfires that follow, are the product of climate change, according to a study of recorded global temperature data by a prominent Nasa scientist.

The study uses recorded temperature data, rather than prediction models, to assert that climate change is responsible for recent extreme weather events including last year's droughts in Texas and Oklahoma, the Russian heat wave in 2010 and the European heat wave in 2003.

The author of the study and head of Nasa's Goddard Institute for Space Studies, Dr James Hansen, said: "We now know that the chances these extreme weather events would have happened naturally – without climate change – is negligible."

Statistical data in the study shows that temperature extremes are becoming more frequent and more intense across the globe. This does not eliminate the possibility of cooler-than-average summers in the future, but it does mean that the probability of unusually warm summers has greatly increased, the report said.

By comparing temperature data from the past 30 years to the 30 years prior, Hansen and his colleagues say the data shows that temperature extremes have increased from affecting less than 1% of global land area to an estimated 10%. Hansen explained that increased greenhouse gas emissions "load the dice", or make the occurrence of these extreme temperature events much more likely.

34 makeitstop  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 2:22:28pm

I'm led to wonder - if they're lying at this high a clip now, what will they be doing come October?

35 AK-47%  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 2:24:13pm

re: #34 makeitstop

I'm led to wonder - if they're lying at this high a clip now, what will they be doing come October?

It will only get worse. Koch brothers will start piling it on, expect a bubble in the oil market to bring gas prices up at the end of October, the drought will do its share in affecting food prices, which will also somehow be laid at Obama's door and the lies will get more brutal.

36 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 2:30:03pm

You know, totally OT, the nice thing about having immigrant neighbors is that when I'm in my backyard, and they're in theirs, I don't have to listen to their conversation. Oh, I can hear it, but I don't speak Vietnamese.

When the American losers behind us scream at each other, I have to go inside and shut the door, or endure it.

37 blueraven  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 2:30:40pm

Wait...what do the fact checkers say?

/

38 dragonfire1981  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 2:30:52pm

I think it's a mistake for anyone at this point to just assume Obama will win re-election. This will get dirtier and it will get messier and there's more than an outside chance Mitt could win given the right set of circumstances.

If he gets killed in the debates however...

39 AK-47%  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 2:31:50pm

re: #38 dragonfire1981

I think it's a mistake for anyone at this point to just assume Obama will win re-election. This will get dirtier and it will get messier and there's more than an outside chance Mitt could win given the right set of circumstances.

If he gets killed in the debates however...

The economy is not about to improve visibly, and that will be the biggest millstone around his neck.

40 dragonfire1981  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 2:32:16pm

OT but interesting: A right wing friend of mind is convinced the Wisconsin shooter must be a democrat because, in his words: "No Republican would ever be that irresponsible with a gun."

41 dragonfire1981  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 2:33:19pm

re: #39 Expand Your Ground

The economy is not about to improve visibly, and that will be the biggest millstone around his neck.

Agreed, the question is: Will it decline, continue to sputter along or actually eke out some growth? If there's a significant drop in employment/rise in jobless numbers/etc. Obama WILL be in trouble come November.

42 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 2:33:30pm

re: #36 Mostly sane, most of the time.

You know, totally OT, the nice thing about having immigrant neighbors is that when I'm in my backyard, and they're in theirs, I don't have to listen to their conversation. Oh, I can hear it, but I don't speak Vietnamese.

When the American losers behind us scream at each other, I have to go inside and shut the door, or endure it.

It is nice, isn't it? Being able to tune out because you simply don't understand a word?

43 Kragar  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 2:34:23pm

re: #40 dragonfire1981

OT but interesting: A right wing friend of mind is convinced the Wisconsin shooter must be a democrat because, in his words: "No Republican would ever be that irresponsible with a gun."

44 AK-47%  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 2:34:23pm

re: #42 SanFranciscoZionist

It is nice, isn't it? Being able to tune out because you simply don't understand a word?

Like a wingnut during a climate change debate,,,

45 Kragar  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 2:35:10pm

re: #44 Expand Your Ground

Like a wingnut during a climate change debate,,,

Or gun control, or healthcare, or reproductive rights...

46 jaunte  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 2:38:36pm

Worth a quotation:

Steve Benen: The cynical response to an ad like this is that the lies are routine -- it's just something "everybody" in politics does. That's wrong. An ad this dishonest is a genuine scandal and it's time for political observers treat it as such. Reporters within earshot of the candidate shouldn't ask, "What about the gaffes?" They should ask, "Why are you lying about welfare policy?"

47 engineer cat  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 2:42:19pm

re: #34 makeitstop

I'm led to wonder - if they're lying at this high a clip now, what will they be doing come October?

congressional fishing expeditions hearings, at the very least

48 engineer cat  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 2:46:28pm

re: #34 makeitstop

I'm led to wonder - if they're lying at this high a clip now, what will they be doing come October?

ok, i was really tempted to say "invading poland", i admit it...

49 Kragar  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 2:48:24pm

re: #48 engineer cat

ok, i was really tempted to say "invading poland", i admit it...

Don't be silly.

First they're going to annex the Sudetenland.

50 Eventual Carrion  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 2:49:24pm

re: #20 Expand Your Ground

In space, nobody can hear you scream...

But a fart can get you going in the right direction

51 Varek Raith  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 2:52:26pm

So...
Pants on Fire rating means what?!?!
What clowns.

52 makeitstop  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 2:53:18pm

re: #47 engineer cat

congressional fishing expeditions hearings, at the very least

I'm starting to believe that there will be an unprecedented over-reach by then. Someone in the Romney campaign will say something that they'll think they can get away with that will cause a massive backlash.

After the military voting lie and the welfare lie, they're compelled to escalate. Sooner or later there will be a massive fuckup that they won't be able to spin away.

53 engineer cat  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 2:54:40pm

re: #49 Kragar

Don't be silly.

First they're going to annex the Sudetenland.

i hear there are millions of Good Hardworking Conservatives in california's central valley that are being oppressed by the Elitist Liberals on the coast

54 Obdicut  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 2:56:04pm

re: #51 Varek Raith

Somehow, Politifact is trying to claim that if you tell someone 'Pants on fire", you're not calling them a liar.

55 John Q  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 2:57:29pm

Yes, Romney is calculating that he can lie his way into the white House.

Poll results show that it's not an altogether foolish calcualtion.

56 Lidane  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 2:57:58pm

re: #12 erik_t

Dear Politifact,

All of this would easily be solved if Mitt Romney released his tax returns.

Cheers!
Me

57 Kragar  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 2:59:52pm

14 'facts' according to the Louisiana Charter School system

I'm going to go punch a wall for a little bit.

58 JamesWI  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 3:01:22pm

re: #40 dragonfire1981

OT but interesting: A right wing friend of mind is convinced the Wisconsin shooter must be a democrat because, in his words: "No Republican would ever be that irresponsible with a gun."

I love all the nutjobs on various sites trying to claim neo-Nazis and the KKK are leftists.

Ah yes, because we all know Democrats hate immigrants, non-Christians, black people, gays, taxes and gun control. Yep, those famous leftist positions.

59 Amory Blaine  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 3:01:24pm

The Oak Creek police chief sure is bending over backwards to not call the massacre a "hate crime".

60 engineer cat  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 3:04:02pm

re: #55 John Q

Yes, Romney is calculating that he can lie his way into the white House.

Poll results show that it's not an altogether foolish calcualtion.

many polls are better than one

but mainly, romney is flunking out of electoral college

61 Lidane  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 3:04:36pm

re: #58 JamesWI

I love all the nutjobs on various sites trying to claim neo-Nazis and the KKK are leftists.

Well, duh. Everyone knows that Nazis were liberals. Haven't you ever read Jonah Goldberg?

62 bratwurst  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 3:07:54pm

re: #61 Lidane

Well, duh. Everyone knows that Nazis were liberals. Haven't you ever read Jonah Goldberg?

I am sure Goldberg knew his book would appeal to his fans, but I doubt that he ever dreamed its thesis would become an article of faith for stupid people from coast to coast.

63 Killgore Trout  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 3:10:48pm

re: #54 Obdicut

Somehow, Politifact is trying to claim that if you tell someone 'Pants on fire", you're not calling them a liar.

...or you could check their webpage to see what their ratings mean but I predict you still wouldn;t understand. Best stick withing the MSNBC/MotherJones bubble. It's safer there for you.

64 erik_t  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 3:12:52pm

re: #63 Killgore Trout

...or you could check their webpage to see what their ratings mean but I predict you still wouldn;t understand. Best stick withing the MSNBC/MotherJones bubble. It's safer there for you.

Eight trillion* elementary schoolchildren know what Mr. Trout apparently does not.

*not intended to be a factual statement

65 blueraven  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 3:13:18pm

Liar, Liar, pants on fire hanging from a telephone wire

66 Killgore Trout  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 3:13:51pm
67 Killgore Trout  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 3:14:47pm

The war on facts is sure heating up.

68 palomino  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 3:15:36pm

re: #63 Killgore Trout

...or you could check their webpage to see what their ratings mean but I predict you still wouldn;t understand. Best stick withing the MSNBC/MotherJones bubble. It's safer there for you.

Hey, you said something else to piss people off. Well done, congrats. Mission accomplished.

And the guy you accuse of being in the msnbc bubble seems to spend a lot of time here. So either he's not really in that bubble, or you think LGF is now part of that bubble. Which one is it?

69 JamesWI  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 3:15:36pm

re: #66 Killgore Trout

[Embedded content]

FALSE – The statement is not accurate.

PANTS ON FIRE – The statement is not accurate and makes a ridiculous claim.

How is that not saying it's a lie? It's essentially "This statement is not only false, but ridiculously false."

70 blueraven  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 3:15:38pm

re: #66 Killgore Trout

[Embedded content]

From politifact

PANTS ON FIRE – The statement is not accurate and makes a ridiculous claim.

That means it is a lie.

71 engineer cat  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 3:16:14pm

re: #57 Kragar

14 'facts' according to the Louisiana Charter School system

I'm going to go punch a wall for a little bit.

Unlike the ‘modern math’ theorists, who believe that mathematics is a creation of man and thus arbitrary and relative

isn't that special!

72 JamesWI  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 3:16:40pm

re: #70 blueraven

From politifact

PANTS ON FIRE – The statement is not accurate and makes a ridiculous claim.

That means it is a lie.

He should stick to his Politifact bubble. It's safer for him there.

73 Killgore Trout  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 3:16:46pm

re: #65 blueraven

Liar, Liar, pants on fire hanging from a telephone wire

The etymology of pants on fire is kind of cool
“Liar, liar, pants on fire. Hangin’ on a telephone wire!” is a paraphrased version of the 1810 poem “The Liar” by William Blake.

74 erik_t  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 3:16:47pm

re: #67 Killgore Trout

The war on facts is sure heating up.

You have as sure a grasp on the definition of 'fact' as Politifact does.

75 Killgore Trout  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 3:17:49pm

re: #74 erik_t

You have as sure a grasp on the definition of 'fact' as Politifact does.

Yes, I find them to be quite reasonable.

76 JamesWI  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 3:20:28pm

"They didn't say he lied! They just said he made a ridiculous claim that was completely inaccurate! Completely different! War on facts!"

77 erik_t  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 3:20:43pm
In deciding which statements to check, we ask ourselves these questions:

Is the statement rooted in a fact that is verifiable? We don’t check opinions, and we recognize that in the world of speechmaking and political rhetoric, there is license for hyperbole.

I would dearly love to know how Politifact classifies anonymous sourcing as verifiable. It's kind of contrary to the definition of anonymous sourcing.

78 Kragar  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 3:21:21pm

re: #71 engineer cat

Unlike the ‘modern math’ theorists, who believe that mathematics is a creation of man and thus arbitrary and relative

isn't that special!

I love that they decided they needed dragons in the "Life sciences" text book.

79 Amory Blaine  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 3:23:28pm

Newspeak is the language of the times.

80 celticdragon  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 3:24:18pm

re: #40 dragonfire1981

OT but interesting: A right wing friend of mind is convinced the Wisconsin shooter must be a democrat because, in his words: "No Republican would ever be that irresponsible with a gun."

Christ on a Crutch. You can show these people the definition of "No True Scotsman" all day long and they will still keep repeating this bullshit.

81 blueraven  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 3:24:22pm

re: #75 Killgore Trout

Yes, I find them to be quite reasonable.

What do you think about the ad that is the subject of this post?

82 palomino  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 3:24:23pm

re: #75 Killgore Trout

Yes, I find them to be quite reasonable.

Says the guy who accuses other lizards of being pro-rape and pro-stabbing. You wouldn't know "reasonable" if it climbed out of your greenhouse and bit you in the ass.

83 engineer cat  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 3:25:38pm

re: #78 Kragar

I love that they decided they needed dragons in the "Life sciences" text book.

yes - i notice they used exactly the explanations provided by that noted biologist, evolutionary theorist, and sumerian philatelist - terry pratchett

84 allegro  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 3:25:49pm

re: #78 Kragar

I love that they decided they need that dragons need to be discussed in the "Life sciences" text book.

What I find amusing is that not that long ago they denied the existence of dinosaurs completely. They said that fossils were their god's way of testing faith. If you believed that the fossils were actually once living breathing critters you failed in the faith thing.

85 researchok  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 3:25:59pm

Humor:

Discussing which politicians are truthful.

86 celticdragon  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 3:26:03pm

re: #59 Amory Blaine

The Oak Creek police chief sure is bending over backwards to not call the massacre a "hate crime".

Hate crimes don't exist unless a brown skinned person did it while yelling about Jihad

87 Killgore Trout  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 3:26:20pm

re: #77 erik_t

I would dearly love to know how Politifact classifies anonymous sourcing as verifiable. It's kind of contrary to the definition of anonymous sourcing.

That's easy. Can other sources verify the information? Are the sources reliable? I think with Harry Reid's source it's becoming clear that there's a problem. Instead of going to a reputable journalist or news organization with his big election changing tip he went to a politician. I assume his claim (even if he does exist) is so weak even partisan activist media like MSNBC wouldn't touch it. Since the claims have come out the source still hasn't gone to a serious journalist to independently verify his claims. I think there's a good reason for that.

88 JamesWI  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 3:26:23pm

re: #82 palomino

Says the guy who accuses other lizards of being pro-rape and pro-stabbing. You wouldn't know "reasonable" if it climbed out of your greenhouse and bit you in the ass.

Good lord, I almost forgot about that one. "I guess I'm the only one here who doesn't like rapists if they're liberal."

Sad what a joke he has become.

89 Killgore Trout  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 3:27:42pm

re: #81 blueraven

What do you think about the ad that is the subject of this post?

It's probably bullshit.

90 JamesWI  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 3:29:00pm

re: #89 Killgore Trout

It's probably bullshit.

He has to say "probably" because PolitiFact hasn't told him the truth yet.

91 blueraven  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 3:29:01pm

re: #89 Killgore Trout

It's probably bullshit.

Only probably? Is that a half true, mostly false or pants on fire?

92 erik_t  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 3:29:06pm

re: #87 Killgore Trout

That's easy. Can other sources verify the information? Are the sources reliable? I think with Harry Reid's source it's becoming clear that there's a problem. Instead of going to a reputable journalist or news organization with his big election changing tip he went to a politician. I assume his claim (even if he does exist) is so weak even partisan activist media like MSNBC wouldn't touch it. Since the claims have come out the source still hasn't gone to a serious journalist to independently verify his claims. I think there's a good reason for that.

The claim is intrinsically unverifiable. Politifact's own rubric, the one I just quoted, excludes it from their consideration.

Way to completely miss the point, though.

93 Kragar  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 3:29:33pm

re: #84 allegro

What I find amusing is that not that long ago they denied the existence of dinosaurs completely. They said that fossils were their god's way of testing faith. If you believed that the fossils were actually once living breathing critters you failed in the faith thing.

"3. “God used the Trail of Tears to bring many Indians to Christ.”—America: Land That I Love, Teacher ed., A Beka Book, 1994"

Hey, look at that. My last shred of faith in a kind and merciful god just shriveled up, fell to the floor, and crumbled into dust.

The words of religious people have done more to destroy my religious beliefs more than any scientific discovery ever could.

94 Killgore Trout  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 3:30:43pm

re: #90 JamesWI

He has to say "probably" because PolitiFact hasn't told him the truth yet.

Politifact gave it Three Pinocchio's.

95 gwangung  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 3:30:54pm

re: #87 Killgore Trout

That's easy. Can other sources verify the information? Are the sources reliable? I think with Harry Reid's source it's becoming clear that there's a problem. Instead of going to a reputable journalist or news organization with his big election changing tip he went to a politician. I assume his claim (even if he does exist) is so weak even partisan activist media like MSNBC wouldn't touch it. Since the claims have come out the source still hasn't gone to a serious journalist to independently verify his claims. I think there's a good reason for that.

Compare and contrast to Watergate.

96 Killgore Trout  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 3:31:03pm

re: #94 Killgore Trout

Politifact gave it Three Pinocchio's.

Oops, sorry. That was WaPo's fact checker.

97 JamesWI  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 3:32:36pm

re: #94 Killgore Trout

Politifact gave it Three Pinocchio's.

So then, why only "probably" bullshit? It's pretty clear it is complete bullshit. Even one of your vaunted "fact-checkers" agrees that it's bullshit. So why only "probably?"

98 blueraven  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 3:32:44pm

re: #96 Killgore Trout

Oops, sorry. That was WaPo's fact checker.

As albusteve might say...you're too deep in man.

99 palomino  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 3:33:50pm

re: #96 Killgore Trout

Oops, sorry. That was WaPo's fact checker.

So KT the Expert Fact Checker just got his facts wrong? WTF.

Physician, heal thyself.

100 Killgore Trout  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 3:36:37pm

re: #97 JamesWI

So then, why only "probably" bullshit? It's pretty clear it is complete bullshit. Even one of your vaunted "fact-checkers" agrees that it's bullshit. So why only "probably?"

Because I didn't take the ad seriously enough to even watch it or verify what's in the Fact Checker article for myself. I really don't anticipate that political ads are factual or honest so it's not a surprise.

101 Sophia77  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 3:50:59pm

Romney is beginning to really turn me off.

George Orwell where are you. There's something deeply wrong with one of our political parties.

102 sauceruney  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 3:56:36pm

And of course, no one in the media will ask, if he's able to lie like this about policy, how can he be trusted about paying his taxes...

103 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 3:57:11pm

Wingnuts having a rage boner with their #KilledByObama tag, Obama killed everybody and everything EXCEPT Osama Bin Laden.

104 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 3:58:15pm

re: #7 Bulworth

Young bucks buying steaks and Welfare queens, etc. /

The Romney campaign should just run this for an ad for the rest of the election cycle.

105 Kragar  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 3:59:04pm

hehehe....

106 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 3:59:22pm

re: #102 chris joseph

And of course, no one in the media will ask, if he's able to lie like this about policy, how can he be trusted about paying his taxes...

MSM "neutrality" = A win for the GOP.

107 Sionainn  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 3:59:38pm

re: #4 Expand Your Ground

This is all Mitt has left to run on: fear and hatred of Obama. he cannot run on his record as a health care-mandating, pro-life governor, he cannot run on his tenure as an absentee, outsourcing CEO, he has no record of rising from humble origins. He can only hope to motivate the right wing with fear of a brown President

Well said.

108 Targetpractice  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 4:03:46pm

Take a good, long look Mr. President. This is what you have to look forward to in a second term. They're not even pretending to be honest anymore.

109 Sionainn  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 4:04:33pm

re: #40 dragonfire1981

OT but interesting: A right wing friend of mind is convinced the Wisconsin shooter must be a democrat because, in his words: "No Republican would ever be that irresponsible with a gun."

Dick Cheney?

110 jaunte  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 4:06:25pm
111 Decatur Deb  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 4:08:08pm

re: #109 Sionainn

Dick Cheney?

RINO--I saw it on Freep.

112 jaunte  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 4:08:39pm

Another Bad Day For Romney

The theme of the day for the Romney campaign was, as Alex Rogers notes below, that Obama’s Soft on Welfare. It sort of flopped. The factoid planted at the microscopic center of the non-story is that the Obama campaign allegedly granted states the right to request waivers from the current welfare work requirements…which is true, except for the following things:

1. The waivers would be granted only if states came up with alternative ideas to create jobs for people on welfare.

2. As governor of Massachusetts, Romney himself asked for such a waiver in 2005.
.....
"...there is a larger question here: How stupid does he think we are? Every day brings a mind-boggling act of untruth-telling."

113 Sionainn  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 4:11:58pm

re: #66 Killgore Trout

[Embedded content]

PANTS ON FIRE – The statement is not accurate and makes a ridiculous claim.

The above is the definition of a lie.

114 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 4:12:53pm

I'm closing Tweetdeck. Teh Stupid is burning a hole in my computer.

115 Sionainn  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 4:14:20pm

re: #70 blueraven

From politifact

PANTS ON FIRE – The statement is not accurate and makes a ridiculous claim.

That means it is a lie.

But, but, but it doesn't use the word LIE, so that means it's not a lie.

116 wrenchwench  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 4:14:55pm

re: #101 Sophia77

Romney is beginning to really turn me off.

George Orwell where are you. There's something deeply wrong with one of our political parties.

There's something deeply wrong with Orwell. About 6' deep. He may be rotating in there.

117 Varek Raith  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 4:17:01pm

So...
Pants on fire doesn't mean it's a lie?
It's true?
Pants?

118 Sionainn  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 4:17:39pm

re: #93 Kragar

"3. “God used the Trail of Tears to bring many Indians to Christ.”—America: Land That I Love, Teacher ed., A Beka Book, 1994"

Hey, look at that. My last shred of faith in a kind and merciful god just shriveled up, fell to the floor, and crumbled into dust.

The words of religious people have done more to destroy my religious beliefs more than any scientific discovery ever could.

Same here.

119 Amory Blaine  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 4:20:50pm

re: #115 Sionainn

The fact they don't use the word lie shows how corrupt their rating system really is. Is there no utterance that can be called a baldfaced lie? Why are they cowering behind weasel words?

120 Aye Pod  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 4:21:07pm

re: #56 Lidane

Dear Politifact,

All of this would easily be solved if Mitt Romney released his tax returns.

Cheers!
Me

He's been desperately evading this issue, and lying about it, for years. It really couldn't be more obvious that those returns can't be released because they say very bad things about Romney.

I find it hard to believe at this point that there really still are people gullible enough to think otherwise.

121 Kragar  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 4:22:30pm
122 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 4:24:02pm

re: #75 Killgore Trout

Yes, I find them to be quite reasonable.

I'm not sure if Orwell would be amused or horrified by that statement.

123 Obdicut  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 4:24:51pm

re: #63 Killgore Trout

...or you could check their webpage to see what their ratings mean but I predict you still wouldn;t understand. Best stick withing the MSNBC/MotherJones bubble. It's safer there for you.

Well, there's two things wrong with that:

A) "Pants on fire" is part of the commonly known phrase "liar, liar, pants on fire". It is Politifact's most drastic rating. If it doesn't mean that someone is lying, then they are never saying anyone is lying.

B) What they say that it means is "Pants on Fire – The statement is not accurate and makes a ridiculous claim."

What Reid said was that someone who was a Bain investor made this claim to him, that Romney didn't pay taxes for ten years. I could agree that's a 'ridiculous' claim for the person who told Reid it to make, and you could even lambaste Reid with it by proxy, but it cannot be said to be not accurate. nobody knows if it's accurate or not, because Mitt Romney has not released his taxes. And it is still entirely possible that Reid was told that Romney didn't pay taxes for ten years.

Does that help you understand?

124 Amory Blaine  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 4:26:05pm

Ignoring Supreme Court Ruling, Texas Prepares to Execute Mentally Retarded Prisoner

125 Varek Raith  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 4:26:49pm

re: #124 Amory Blaine

Ignoring Supreme Court Ruling, Texas Prepares to Execute Mentally Retarded Prisoner

[Embedded content]


BREAKING: Supreme Court Will Allow Mentally Retarded Man To Die

126 andres  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 4:27:31pm

re: #85 researchok

Humor:

Discussing which politicians are truthful.

I just remembered an old joke I saw:

The newscaster goes on TV and says "A large group of our politicians are corrupt." The next night, the producer demands the newscaster to apologize because he had an earful of politicians demanding an apology from him. The newscaster surprises the producer and agrees to apologize that very night.

On the show, the newscaster says, "Last night I said that a large group of our politicians are corrupt. It was wrong for me to say it, and I apologize for it. In related news, a small group of our politicians are not corrupt."

127 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 4:27:40pm

re: #123 Obdicut

Well, there's two things wrong with that:

A) "Pants on fire" is part of the commonly known phrase "liar, liar, pants on fire". It is Politifact's most drastic rating.

B) What they say that it means is "Pants on Fire – The statement is not accurate and makes a ridiculous claim."

What Reid said was that someone who was a Bain investor made this claim to him, that Romney didn't pay taxes for ten years. I could agree that's a 'ridiculous' claim for the person who told Reid it to make, and you could even lambaste Reid with it by proxy, but it cannot be said to be not accurate. nobody knows if it's accurate or not, because Mitt Romney has not released his taxes. And it is still entirely possible that Reid was told that Romney didn't pay taxes for ten years.

Does that help you understand?

That is not the point to KT's daily endeavor. Sorry Obdi.

128 Obdicut  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 4:28:48pm

re: #125 Varek Raith

That's kind of odd. It's been ruled unconstitutional. So how can the Supreme Court let it go by?

129 Varek Raith  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 4:29:20pm

I'm a clone of Stalin.
Politifact Rating: Mostly False.

130 Aye Pod  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 4:29:29pm

re: #121 Kragar

Image: cM3EZGEjVUOejV-Go1hDBg2.jpg

Frankie Boyle. He's kinda fucked up...lol?

131 erik_t  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 4:29:36pm

re: #123 Obdicut

Well, there's two things wrong with that:

A) "Pants on fire" is part of the commonly known phrase "liar, liar, pants on fire". It is Politifact's most drastic rating. If it doesn't mean that someone is lying, then they are never saying anyone is lying.

The lifted-verbatim-from-Romney denial doesn't help. 'Those aren't the words we used', even though any schoolchild you tell you exactly the implication.

132 Amory Blaine  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 4:29:50pm

America is Godwinning itself.

133 Interesting Times  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 4:30:32pm
134 Kragar  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 4:31:00pm
135 Big Joe  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 4:32:33pm

re: #115 Sionainn

I saw that episode on Star Trek.

"Norman, correlate"

136 Amory Blaine  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 4:33:27pm

re: #128 Obdicut

That's kind of odd. It's been ruled unconstitutional. So how can the Supreme Court let it go by?

Good question.

137 Varek Raith  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 4:34:19pm

re: #128 Obdicut

That's kind of odd. It's been ruled unconstitutional. So how can the Supreme Court let it go by?

Evidently it's left up to the states to determine what constitutes a mental impairment.

138 Decatur Deb  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 4:34:27pm

re: #128 Obdicut

That's kind of odd. It's been ruled unconstitutional. So how can the Supreme Court let it go by?

Supreme Court has no enforcement arm--ask Andrew Jackson.

139 Kragar  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 4:34:57pm

re: #137 Varek Raith

Evidently it's left up to the states to determine what constitutes a mental impairment.

Not a steep curve when you're discussing Texans.

140 Obdicut  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 4:36:27pm

re: #137 Varek Raith

Evidently it's left up to the states to determine what constitutes a mental impairment.

Ah, shit. Texas.

141 Decatur Deb  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 4:36:36pm

re: #139 Kragar

Not a steep curve when you're discussing Texans.

The moon landings and the Perry campaign were both controlled by Texans.

142 Mentis Fugit  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 4:36:45pm

re: #50 RayFerd

But a fart can get you going in the right direction

Newton's Turd Law

143 Amory Blaine  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 4:37:05pm

SOCIAL NETWORKS FOR HATE SPEECH: COMMERCIAL TALK RADIO AND NEW MEDIA

Study on right wing hate radio. Geller has an appearance.

144 Big Joe  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 4:37:58pm

re: #141 Decatur Deb

The moon landings and the Perry campaign were both controlled by Texans.

To be honest, most of the moon people were born and educated outside of Texas.

145 Amory Blaine  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 4:40:03pm

re: #143 Amory Blaine

SOCIAL NETWORKS FOR HATE SPEECH: COMMERCIAL TALK RADIO AND NEW MEDIA

Study on right wing hate radio. Geller has an appearance.

This study analyzes how social networks that
form around the hosts of commercial talk radio
shows can propagate messages targeting vulnerable
groups. Working with recorded broadcasts
from five shows gathered over a six-week period,
involving 102 scheduled guests and covering 88
topics, researchers determined hosts’ and guests’
ideological alignment on the topics discussed most
frequently—including immigration and terrorism—
through a content analysis of on-air statements and
website content. The findings reveal that the hosts
promoted an insular discourse that focused on, for
example, anti-immigration, anti-Islam, and pro-Tea
Party positions and that this discourse found repetition
and amplification through social media. Of the
21 guests who appeared more than once, media
personalities (57 percent) and political figures
(19 percent) accounted for 76 percent. Fox News
accounted for nearly one-fourth (24 percent) of
appearances by guests representing an organization.
Political figures accounted for 27 percent of
all guests, and the Republican Party and the Tea
Party accounted for 93 percent and 89 percent,
respectively, of all political figures appearing on
the shows. Eighty-nine percent of the scheduled
guests were white, and 81 percent were male.

146 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 4:40:26pm

Reid offered Romney a gambit in that he's sacrificing some credibility in the short-term in a long game. No one knows what he's holding back, least of all the GOP.
Next move, Romney, who's protests seem a pitch too high.
Lying, racist adds are like cat-nip to the base, and are a distraction from the tax returns that even the establishment GOP wants him to release. And it seems obvious to me that corporate media isn't going to call him on his shit.
I'm starting to wonder...
Is Romney hiding his returns from the left? Maybe, but attacks from the left can be spun enough to even convince undecideds that Romney's the guy.
Or is he hiding them from the right?

147 Ming  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 4:40:48pm

Speaking about work requirements for welfare, I'm reminded of when Pastor Rick Warren put questions to Obama for an hour, then McCain for an hour, shortly before the 2008 election. When Obama was asked to name some issue that he'd changed his mind on, he named welfare reform. He said he had opposed Clinton's welfare reform in the mid-1990's as too draconian. Then he added that as time went on, he saw that Clinton's welfare reform really had helped reduce the welfare rolls, had really helped put people back to work. So Obama said he changed his mind on that, from his initial opposition, to his current (in 2008) appreciation of the benefits of welfare reform.

Unfortunately, the 30% or so of the population who gets their "news" from Fox will never know about Obama's views on welfare and welfare reform. They'll just know the lie of the day.

Fox may as well go all the way and publish a daily "Talking Points Memo", two pages long every day just like the USSR's Pravda was. Then, like Pravda, "Talking Points Memo" can be posted in public places, so all good citizens can know the truth.

148 Mocking Jay  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 4:40:51pm

Anyone seen Daniel Day Lewis as Lincoln?

Image: lincoln-daniel-day-lewis.jpg

I have a theory that Abe was bitten by one of those vampires and has been using DDL as a cover until he finally get his story out there.

149 Decatur Deb  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 4:41:30pm

re: #144 Big Joe

To be honest, most of the moon people were born and educated outside of Texas.

Peenemunde doesn't count.

150 Kragar  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 4:41:32pm

re: #141 Decatur Deb

The moon landings and the Perry campaign were both controlled by Texans.

WRONG! Mission control was based in Texas, not controlled by it.

151 Decatur Deb  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 4:43:35pm

re: #150 Kragar

WRONG! Mission control was based in Texas, not controlled by it.

Then why didn't they tell Greenbelt they had a problem? Or were you referring to our guys here in Alabama?

152 Kragar  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 4:47:49pm

re: #151 Decatur Deb

Then why didn't they tell Greenbelt they had a problem? Or were you referring to our guys here in Alabama?

Duh, Houston was the guy on radio watch.

153 Decatur Deb  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 4:49:27pm

re: #152 Kragar

Duh, Houston was the guy on radio watch.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

"These two rooms controlled all Gemini, Apollo, Skylab, and Space Shuttle flights up to 1998. Each consisted of a four-tier auditorium, dominated by a large map screen, which, with the exception of Apollo lunar flights, had a Mercator projection of the Earth, with locations of tracking stations, and a three-orbit "sine wave" track of the spacecraft in flight. Each MOCR tier was specialized, staffed by various controllers responsible for a specific spacecraft system."

154 Kragar  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 4:52:12pm

re: #153 Decatur Deb

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

You still haven't proven to me the guy talking on the radio wasn't also named Houston.
///

155 Decatur Deb  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 4:54:11pm

re: #154 Kragar

You still haven't proven to me the guy talking on the radio wasn't also named Houston.
///

Cisco Houston, good on guitar when not talking to spacemen.

156 wrenchwench  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 4:56:54pm
157 sattv4u2  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 4:57:54pm

re: #155 Decatur Deb

Cisco Houston, good on guitar when not talking to spacemen.

[Embedded content]

What are you, some kind of Spacemanist?

158 Aye Pod  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 4:58:18pm

Richard Dawkins is coming to the Stornoway Book Festival ( a belief-themed event right in the heart of Presbyterian country)

Pastor Donnie Stewart, of the New Wine Church at Stornoway, added: "It is disappointing that he has been invited given the Christian heritage and local sensitivities here.

"But we will keep praying that Prof Dawkins receives the personal revelation of the Holy Spirit."

Even though they don't want his kind there at all. Such generosity of spirit!

159 Kragar  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 4:58:57pm

Private Prisons Cost Arizona $3.5 Million More Per Year Than State-Run Prisons

Private prisons, touted as a cost-efficient alternative to state-run penitentiaries, are not living up to their promises in at least one state. A new study of Arizona’s private prisons finds that the state is actually losing money — $3.5 million a year — by turning their inmates over to for-profit corporations.

According to the Tucson Citizen’s analysis of Arizona’s three oldest private prison contracts, the rate to hold one prisoner for one night has increased 13.9% since the contracts were awarded. Compared to the cost of state-run prisons, Arizona overpaid for its private prison beds by $10 million between 2008 and 2010.

The cost of these private prison contracts was no surprise to the legislators who awarded them. In an earlier investigation, the Citizen discovered the Legislature was well aware how expensive the private prisons were and simply circumvented a law requiring corporations to show cost savings before receiving a contract. In 2012, the Legislature repealed the requirement entirely — as well as a requirement that the state conduct a review comparing the quality of private and public prisons.

160 wrenchwench  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 5:01:44pm

The issue has been mentioned here, but it's fleshed out more at TPM.

161 freetoken  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 5:02:58pm

A reminder about America - atavism runs wide and deep:

Tea party Democrat to run anti-abortion ads against Rep. Ellison

[...]

“I am fighting for the unborn,” Boisclair told KARE 11. “Only by making people are people going to wake up and do something about it.”


The ad accuses Ellison of being willing to kill an “unborn baby” and describes Planned Parenthood as a “criminal syndicate.” The ad features numerous pictures of bloody aborted fetuses.

Boisclair was born and raised in Minneapolis, according to his website. But he hasn’t lived in the state since 2003. His official residence listed in West Virginia. Boisclair explained to the Star Tribune that he is a Democrat because, “Democrats know how to fight for the little guy, and I’m fighting for the littlest guy.”

Boisclair is a member of the Society for Truth and Justice, an anti-abortion group that is running primary challenges around the country with the sole intention of airing graphic ads. The group is taking advantage of Federal Communication Commission (FCC) loophole that prevents campaign ads from being censored. FCC-licensed TV stations can reject ads based on graphic content, but they are required by law to run the ads of federal candidates within the 45-day window of any primary.

The group was founded by Randall Terry, who is running as a Democrat against President Barack Obama. The Society for Truth and Justice currently has five candidates nationwide. The group knows its candidates have no chance of winning in the primary elections, but that is not the point.

[...]

Boisclair’s first ad attacked Ellison for believing in the Muslim faith. The ad was uploaded to YouTube, but has since been removed by the the video hosting service.


“We did not pick this fight,” Boisclair said. “Islam’s war against Christianity and human liberty has raged against us for 1,400 years. We are merely responding with the truth.”

[...]

162 Gus  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 5:07:36pm

re: #129 Varek Raith

I'm a clone of Stalin.
Politifact Rating: Mostly False.

Creationism
Politifact Rating: Partly True
"We can't prove otherwise so we can only conclude that it's partly true."

163 austin_blue  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 5:07:40pm

re: #33 Kragar

Nasa scientist's study quantifies climate change link to extreme weather

"Can't someone rid me of the meddlesome scientist?"

-D.H. Koch

164 Gus  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 5:08:18pm

re: #158 Aye Pod

Richard Dawkins is coming to the Stornoway Book Festival ( a belief-themed event right in the heart of Presbyterian country)

Even though they don't want his kind there at all. Such generosity of spirit!

Dawkins! Pass the smelling salts and get the fainting couch! Ah, the good old days. //

165 allegro  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 5:08:46pm

re: #159 Kragar

Private Prisons Cost Arizona $3.5 Million More Per Year Than State-Run Prisons

I gotta place this one in Dept. DUH. Of course, private prisons are going to cost a lot more because they are for profit.

166 Gus  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 5:09:20pm

re: #160 wrenchwench

[Embedded content]

The issue has been mentioned here, but it's fleshed out more at TPM.

TPM lies! If it's not in the Christian Science Monitor it's not true.

//

167 Targetpractice  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 5:10:39pm

re: #160 wrenchwench

[Embedded content]

The issue has been mentioned here, but it's fleshed out more at TPM.

That's the general running theme, that Romney didn't have to break the law in order to avoid paying income taxes. The man was paying people with the skill and understanding of the tax code necessary to keep him paying the lowest amount possible in taxes. I have doubts that, if pressed, he could accurately describe how it was that he managed to avoid paying income taxes.

168 erik_t  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 5:11:19pm

re: #166 Gus

TPM lies! If it's not in the Christian Science Monitor it's not true.

//

ThinkProgressM is a radical leftist news outlet. Not to be trusted.

169 Kragar  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 5:12:26pm

re: #165 allegro

I gotta place this one in Dept. DUH. Of course, private prisons are going to cost a lot more because they are for profit.

The whole argument that has been made in regards to private prisons is that government will waste too much money on them, being a government run enterprise, while private companies will be more thrifty.

So far, they've been an abysmal failure, with horrible conditions and encouraging systemic corruption wherever they pop up.

170 allegro  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 5:13:48pm

re: #169 Kragar

The whole argument that has been made in regards to private prisons is that government will waste too much money on them, being a government run enterprise, while private companies will be more thrifty.

So far, they've been an abysmal failure, with horrible conditions and encouraging systemic corruption wherever they pop up.

Pretty much what we'll be seeing in Louisiana schools soon.

171 jaunte  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 5:16:57pm

re: #162 Gus

Creationism
Politifact Rating: Partly True
"We can't prove otherwise so we can only conclude that it's partly true."

"Genes on fire!"

172 Decatur Deb  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 5:17:08pm

re: #167 Targetpractice

That's the general running theme, that Romney didn't have to break the law in order to avoid paying income taxes. The man was paying people with the skill and understanding of the tax code necessary to keep him paying the lowest amount possible in taxes. I have doubts that, if pressed, he could accurately describe how it was that he managed to avoid paying income taxes.

Got no idea what's in his taxes, good/bad, legal/illegal. But I know he thinks it's bad enough to risk serious damage to his shot at the presidency.

173 Gus  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 5:17:58pm

Shocking!

174 dragonfire1981  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 5:18:43pm

re: #169 Kragar

The whole argument that has been made in regards to private prisons is that government will waste too much money on them, being a government run enterprise, while private companies will be more thrifty.

So far, they've been an abysmal failure, with horrible conditions and encouraging systemic corruption wherever they pop up.

That's because private prisons are not about rehabilitation and private schools are not about providing education to students.

Both are about providing maximum profit for executives and shareholders, hence the corruption you mention.

There's a notion accepted by many that private companies can run things better than the Government. While this is true in some respects, the fact is that private companies are always fixated upon the profit motive above all else and most major corporations do not care who they have to screw over, what laws they have to break and what corners they have to cut to keep making more money.

175 jaunte  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 5:18:57pm

re: #172 Decatur Deb

His tax calculations are probably legal, but so was putting a retarded man to death in Texas.

176 Decatur Deb  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 5:20:36pm

re: #175 jaunte

His tax calculations are probably legal, but so was putting a retarded man to death in Texas.

Yes, but you can run for Governor on that plank in a couple states.

177 freetoken  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 5:20:42pm

re: #174 dragonfire1981

There are plenty of private schools which are "non-profit".

Of course, we can argue if any "non-profit" entity is truly not about profit in the most general sense of that word - we all profit from having the people around us be better educated.

178 Gus  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 5:20:43pm

Oh noz I posted a Tweet from those super radicals at MSNBC!!!11ty

Derp.

179 Gus  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 5:21:19pm

I iz in mah MSNBC/MotherJones bubble.

180 Gus  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 5:22:56pm
181 Varek Raith  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 5:24:21pm

re: #179 Gus

I iz in mah MSNBC/MotherJones bubble.

Politifact is Infallible!

182 Decatur Deb  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 5:24:52pm

re: #176 Decatur Deb

Yes, but you can run for Governor on that plank in a couple states.

[Link: www.sharkywater.com...]

[Link: www.guardian.co.uk...]

183 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 5:27:08pm

re: #180 Gus

[Embedded content]

If Romney wants this to go away, he's failing miserably. He's goading Reid—and giving Reid a chance to respond. It's the most moronic, bungling response you could possibly imagine. The only thing that would be dumber is if Romney knows what he's doing, and wants to keep this story alive because he thinks it makes him look good. Actually, I wouldn't rule that out as a serious possibility. I mean, this is the same guy who spent a week insulting people in three different nations and declared his journey a great success.

Hit em hard Harry!

184 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 5:29:47pm

The point Mitt is trying to make is that the only time stay-at-home parenting counts as hard work is when it's done by ultra-wealthy stay at home moms like his wife Ann.

185 Gus  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 5:29:53pm

David Frum off in his little bubble again...

Right. Universal coverage. AKA RomneyCare or the Massachusetts version of ObamaCare which includes and individual mandate. Yep! Hit 'em hard Romney! Tell your wingnut voter base about "universal coverage."

186 erik_t  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 5:30:24pm

re: #185 Gus

He's... he's on our side, right? This is sarcasm, right?

187 Gus  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 5:30:52pm

re: #186 erik_t

He's... he's on our side, right? This is sarcasm, right?

Nah. Sounds like Frum to me.

188 Gus  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 5:31:13pm
189 Kragar  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 5:31:24pm

re: #185 Gus

David Frum off in his little bubble again...

[Embedded content]

Right. Universal coverage. AKA RomneyCare or the Massachusetts version of ObamaCare which includes and individual mandate. Yep! Hit 'em hard Romney! Tell your wingnut voter base about "universal coverage."

Would that be the universal coverage he now actively campaigns against as a horrible idea?

190 wrenchwench  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 5:31:47pm

re: #179 Gus

I iz in mah MSNBC/MotherJones bubble.

...

I've never seen that video. Pretty cool.

191 Gus  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 5:31:54pm

re: #189 Kragar

Would that be the universal coverage he now actively campaigns against as a horrible idea?

Si.

192 wrenchwench  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 5:32:14pm

re: #186 erik_t

He's... he's on our side, right? This is sarcasm, right?

Frum is confused.

193 erik_t  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 5:33:17pm

re: #192 wrenchwench

Frum is confused.

Frum has hurt his party in his confusion! Frum has fainted!

194 Varek Raith  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 5:33:22pm

re: #191 Gus

Si.

I'm calling INS.
/

195 Aye Pod  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 5:33:32pm

re: #162 Gus

Creationism
Politifact Rating: Partly True
"We can't prove otherwise so we can only conclude that it's partly true."

Commemorative Charles and Di teapot orbiting the planet Jupiter: likewise.

196 Gus  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 5:34:24pm

re: #195 Aye Pod

Commemorative Charles and Di teapot orbiting the planet Jupiter: likewise.

Santa Claus
Politifact Rating: Partly True

197 Decatur Deb  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 5:34:43pm

re: #192 wrenchwench

Frum is confused.

Frum is still the GOP. He's just too Canadian to froth at the mouth and wave a Glock about.

198 Varek Raith  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 5:35:45pm

re: #197 Decatur Deb

Frum is still the GOP. He's just too Canadian to froth at the mouth and wave a Glock about.

Whoa eh?

199 freetoken  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 5:38:39pm

I'm still working through ideas for some sort of Page on myths and men (read - religious history and comparing these myths to reality), going through books, etc.

Everyone has their own biases, of course, and being able to identify them is the challenge.

That's true, btw, of Frum. It strikes me that he's still licking his wounds from being cast out of the inner-circle of Republicanism activists.

200 Targetpractice  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 5:39:03pm

re: #189 Kragar

Would that be the universal coverage he now actively campaigns against as a horrible idea?

Nah, it's the one he says was totally great for MA, but not for anybody else, because states gotta be allowed to support or gut medical care for the plebes as they see fit.

201 Gus  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 5:39:12pm

re: #197 Decatur Deb

Frum is still the GOP. He's just too Canadian to froth at the mouth and wave a Glock about.

Well. There is an anomaly.

Mark Steyn

Ick.

202 Gus  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 5:40:56pm
203 Targetpractice  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 5:41:55pm

re: #185 Gus

David Frum off in his little bubble again...

[Embedded content]

Right. Universal coverage. AKA RomneyCare or the Massachusetts version of ObamaCare which includes and individual mandate. Yep! Hit 'em hard Romney! Tell your wingnut voter base about "universal coverage."

Frum's still living in his own little private universe, where the party still listens to guys like him, that Romney's the key to bringing "moderation" back to the ranks, and that this whole Tea Party business is just a fad that will die out.

Anytime I listen to him opine about how the GOP could regain its moderation and become a great party again, I can't help but picture a battered wife sporting several bruises on her face, crying that she can't leave her abuser because "He can change!"

204 Gus  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 5:43:01pm
205 freetoken  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 5:43:56pm

For example, if someone came out and claimed that Ezra was the David Barton of his day, it might not be received too well in certain circles.

206 wrenchwench  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 5:44:02pm

re: #204 Gus

[Embedded content]

Rick Perry should go to the Hell I don't believe in.

207 bratwurst  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 5:45:08pm

re: #204 Gus

[Embedded content]

Somewhere there is a GOP debate audience applauding.

208 austin_blue  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 5:45:09pm

re: #176 Decatur Deb

Yes, but you can run for Governor on that plank in a couple states.

Especially here.

209 Varek Raith  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 5:45:17pm

re: #204 Gus

[Embedded content]

Unfreakingconstitutional.

210 freetoken  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 5:45:25pm

re: #204 Gus

There are a handful of contemporary realities in American life which are worthy of shame, and the execution of mentally handicap is one of them.

Same as executing those known to be innocent.

211 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 5:46:17pm

re: #202 Gus

[Embedded content]

Harry:

The seriousness of this problem is not lost on your average American. A large majority of people finally believe climate change is real, and that it is the cause of extreme weather. Yet despite having overwhelming evidence and public opinion on our side, deniers still exist, fueled and funded by dirty energy profits.

These people aren't just on the other side of this debate. They're on the other side of reality.

It's time for us all – whether we're leaders in Washington, members of the media, scientists, academics, environmentalists or utility industry executives – to stop acting like those who ignore the crisis or deny it exists entirely have a valid point of view. They don't.

212 Gus  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 5:47:13pm

re: #211 Stanley Sea

Harry:

It's a very good speech. Kind of surprised that he was this much into the topic. Recommended. :)

213 austin_blue  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 5:49:44pm

re: #211 Stanley Sea

Harry:

Boy, that's well stated.

"Can't someone rid me of this troublesome Senator?"

-D.H. Koch

214 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 5:49:45pm

re: #212 Gus

It's a very good speech. Kind of surprised that he was this much into the topic. Recommended. :)

That was from the Orange Satan too. EVEN BETTAH.

215 Gus  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 5:55:03pm
216 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 5:58:52pm

Why the fuck is NBC showing endless women's beach volleyball semi-finals for an entire freakin solid HOUR.

SPOILER: US wins the gold.

217 Targetpractice  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:00:32pm

re: #216 Learned Mother of Zion

Why the fuck is NBC showing endless women's beach volleyball semi-finals for an entire freakin solid HOUR.

SPOILER: US wins the gold.

God, now I've got no reason to watch scantily-clad women play on sand! Thanks for ruining it for me!

//

218 austin_blue  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:01:20pm

re: #216 Learned Mother of Zion

Why the fuck is NBC showing endless women's beach volleyball semi-finals for an entire freakin solid HOUR.

SPOILER: US wins the gold.

Hey, that was good match for Mays/Walsh.

22/20, 21/19.

219 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:04:18pm

re: #216 Learned Mother of Zion

Why the fuck is NBC showing endless women's beach volleyball semi-finals for an entire freakin solid HOUR.

SPOILER: US wins the gold.

The clothes. er..

220 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:04:44pm

re: #215 Gus

LOL...

British Sent The HMS Romney To Enforce Taxation Laws In 1768

haHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA HA

and

HA!

221 Patricia Kayden  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:04:47pm

re: #9 Kragar

Number of times Congress has voted to repeal ACA vs number of Jobs Bills brought up for a vote:

[Link: s3.amazonaws.com...]

Obama needs to put that chart in an ad along with the Congressional Republicans awfully low approval rate.

222 Varek Raith  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:05:14pm

re: #216 Learned Mother of Zion

Why the fuck is NBC showing endless women's beach volleyball semi-finals for an entire freakin solid HOUR.

SPOILER: US wins the gold.

What about the Apollo 13?!?!

223 Targetpractice  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:07:55pm

re: #9 Kragar

Number of times Congress has voted to repeal ACA vs number of Jobs Bills brought up for a vote:

[Link: s3.amazonaws.com...]

Yes, but what about the various tax cuts, tax credits, and deregulations that the GOP sent to the Senate? Those are "jobs bills" too!

224 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:07:58pm

MORE SPOILERS:

Gabby Douglas fell off the balance beam.
Aly Raisman won the bronze on the balance beam after a judges disqualification and tiebreaker technicality.
Aly Raisman won the gold for the floor exercise.

NBC is not showing that until after 10:00 PM.

225 Gus  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:08:40pm

re: #222 Varek Raith

What about the Apollo 13?!?!

All three land on the moon in the LM and await to be rescued by Apollo 14. True story!

//

226 jaunte  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:14:02pm

Maddow mocks Wheaton College over contraception coverage

“So what do you do when you get called out in something like this?” Maddow wondered. “Do you give up? Do you admit the fact you’ve already been offering birth control in the health plans, and that means, by definition, a rule making you offer birth control doesn’t exactly trample on your rights? Of course you don’t admit that.”

The college has scrambled to remove its coverage of emergency contraception and plans to continue its legal fight.

227 Patricia Kayden  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:14:09pm

re: #87 Killgore Trout

If you watch MSNBC, you'll see that all their shows have featured Reid's statement in a very positive light. They love Reid. I'm talking Matthews, Maddow, O'Donnell, Sharpton and Schultz. Not understanding why you claim that they're not touching his claim.
If Romney wants to embarass Reid, all he has to do is release his dang taxes. This is not rocket science.

228 Patricia Kayden  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:15:18pm

re: #216 Learned Mother of Zion

They're showing track and field now.
I skipped the bikini volleyball and watched Ed Schultz instead.

229 Gus  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:16:29pm

Bryan Fischer is an idiot.

230 Gus  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:16:40pm
231 jaunte  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:17:10pm

re: #230 Gus

Soliciting kidnapping?

232 freetoken  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:17:17pm

re: #216 Learned Mother of Zion

Why the fuck is NBC showing endless women's beach volleyball semi-finals for an entire freakin solid HOUR.

Why?

233 Gus  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:17:46pm

re: #231 jaunte

Soliciting kidnapping?

Good point.

234 Gus  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:18:03pm

re: #231 jaunte

Soliciting kidnapping?

Hang on. Gonna borrow that...

235 austin_blue  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:18:05pm

Oh, and speaking of Olympic...ummm...coverage, it appears that unapproved condoms were smuggled into the Village. The poster is an an an Aussie BMX rider:

[Link: images.search.yahoo.com...]

236 Varek Raith  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:18:23pm

Blah people!

237 Aye Pod  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:19:00pm

Update on the impending visit of his Great Evilness to Stornoway:

People are being urged to boycott a talk by atheist Professor Richard Dawkins in the Western Isles heartland of the Free Church.

The man whose best-selling book The God Delusion argues that belief in a supernatural creator is irrational and harmful to society is the headline speaker at the main book festival in the God-fearing Outer Hebrides – arguably one of the least-likely places his views will be welcomed.

Now, hard-line Christians are calling on people to boycott the biologist’s talk at the Faclan Hebridean Book Festival at Stornoway, amid claims his presence will be “offensive”.

Bedtime here. Have a good one!

238 Gus  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:19:27pm

re: #231 jaunte

Soliciting kidnapping?

239 Gus  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:20:18pm

re: #237 Aye Pod

Update on the impending visit of his Great Evilness to Stornoway:

Bedtime here. Have a good one!

Wingnuts in Scotland! Noooooooo!

Later.

240 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:21:12pm

re: #206 wrenchwench

Rick Perry should go to the Hell I don't believe in.

He doesn't meet the IQ requirements for admission, which is ironic, all things considered.

241 jaunte  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:21:42pm

re: #238 Gus

"It is immaterial that the actor fails to communicate with the person he solicits to commit a crime if his conduct was designed to effect such a communication."
[Link: definitions.uslegal.com...]

242 erik_t  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:22:37pm

re: #238 Gus

[Embedded content]

I'd like to congratulate Mr. Fischer on being an even more contemptible dirtbag than I thought he was already.

And this is saying a lot.

243 Sionainn  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:22:43pm

re: #229 Gus

Bryan Fischer is an idiot.

Tell me something I didn't already know.

244 Charles Johnson  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:23:08pm

re: #231 jaunte

Soliciting kidnapping?

I had to ask him that question directly:

245 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:23:56pm

This is a repost from Alouette's latest "Scary Jew Shadow" post. The cover of Time was too much even for me, so I thought I would share some thoughts here too.

I think I need to pen a bit of a troll hammer. This time, more pointed at the misguided left before the right.

Some facts:

1. Orthodox Jewry is not monolithic. We have never been monolithic. We have no equivalent of a pope or a caliph. Even in the old days, the closest thing to that was comprised of 71 members of a high court, the Sanhedrin. They debated furiously with each other over many issues and those debates (gemara, a part of Talmud) are studied to this day. That is the way it works to this day. If you ask two rabbis for an opinion on any non-settled topic, you will get between two and seven answers.

2. The reason number 1 was listed first is because all of this "shadowy religious Jew" imagery is nothing more than a sop to the idea of the evil secret Jewish organization lurking in the shadows. Jews have never been so organized. If you believe the Torah, even under Moses, they were not so organized. These images are a dog whistle and a visual boogey man. Observant Jews have faces, and most are really nice people.

3. The meme of 2 fits all too well into an image of the "acceptable Jews" and the "unacceptable Jews." To all too many, that means a Jew who isn't "too Jewish." For the ohhh so progressive set, they are a threat, because this is the founding monotheistic religion. Some academic sorts, and self styled enlightened ones think that getting rid of the source would make the world more enlightened. For many (not all, but many) assimilated Jews, seeing an observant Jew often causes all sorts of discomfort. It may come from guilt. It may come from feeling excluded. It may come from embarrassment, because they don't want to stick out to their non-Jewish friends and colleagues. In all these cases, keep the observant Jew in the shadows. If he goes away, all will be better.

4. The appropriate observant answer to those who think like 3, is not printable here - even if appropriate.

5. It is absolutely true that some amongst the Haredim are an astonishing pain in the ass. In fact, I would go so far as to say that some are an ignorant disgrace that rival the most crazy of any tent revival in America. It is also true that they are the fringe of the fringe, and even so, they are generally not the sorts to kill.

6. In the circles that I move in, the observant Jews, men and women, tend to have Ph.D.s, M.D.s and J.D.s. There is the occasional DDS, accountant or musician. For every nut-job that makes the press from the observant world, there are a lot more who are more educated and in tune with the enlightenment and the scientific method than the vast majority of all other Americans. That is just the numbers. The average American doesn't have PhDs, MDs JDs etc...

7. Point 6 is the other thing that really pisses off the "ohh so enlightened, we are so past this religion thing" segment of the left. Observant Jews do not easily fit into the contemptible "religious nut" mold that the hard left would like to put them into. Many observant Jews know vastly more science than the person who thinks that. The "enlightened" want to think that religious people are prima facie backwards. This disrupts that narrative.

8. Finally, the right. Nazi propaganda was the most pervasive use of shadowy Jews (pictured in silhouette) reaching out to conquer the world. And yeah, to hell with that. See number one.

246 Sionainn  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:24:08pm

re: #238 Gus

[Embedded content]

Let us know if he responds to you.

247 Gus  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:25:19pm

re: #246 Sionainn

Let us know if he responds to you.

[Sound of cold wind blowing.]

//

248 jaunte  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:25:42pm

re: #244 Charles Johnson

Linked in an earlier Fischer tweet:
Mennonite minister faces trial in lesbian child custody case

LITTLETON, New Hampshire (Reuters) - A Mennonite minister goes on trial this week for helping a woman flee to Nicaragua with her daughter to evade court-ordered visitation with her former same-sex partner, and he could face up to three years in jail if convicted.

....
Lisa Miller was indicted on international kidnapping charges in 2010 but federal agents have been unable to locate her or Isabella.

249 erik_t  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:26:06pm

re: #246 Sionainn

Let us know if he responds to you.

Blocking counts as a response, right?

250 Sionainn  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:28:54pm

re: #249 erik_t

Blocking counts as a response, right?

A chickenshit response, but yes, a response nonetheless.

251 Gus  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:29:22pm

Groan...

252 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:29:26pm

What kind of guys get into equestrian?

Image: Vy8Ad.jpg

253 jaunte  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:29:55pm

re: #251 Gus

Maybe it was the last movie he saw.

254 Gus  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:29:55pm

brb

255 Varek Raith  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:30:41pm

re: #251 Gus

Groan...

[Embedded content]

Duck, moose.
Same.
Thing.

256 Targetpractice  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:31:08pm

re: #230 Gus

[Embedded content]

Decided to give the article he linked to a check. It was one long whine about a guy claiming that growing up in a gay household is what has made him a social outcast.

257 erik_t  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:34:47pm

re: #256 Targetpractice

Decided to give the article he linked to a check. It was one long whine about a guy claiming that growing up in a gay household is what has made him a social outcast.

Kidnapping was probably the answer.

/

258 austin_blue  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:36:45pm

re: #245 LudwigVanQuixote

This is a repost from Alouette's latest "Scary Jew Shadow" post. The cover of Time was too much even for me, so I thought I would share some thought here too.

I think I need to pen a bit of a troll hammer. This time, more pointed at the misguided left before the right.

Some facts:

1. Orthodox Jewry is not monolithic. We have never been monolithic. We have no equivalent of a pope or a caliph. Even in the old days, the closest thing to that was comprised of 71 members of a high court, the Sanhedrin. They debated furiously with each other over many issues and those debates (gemara, a part of Talmud) are studied to this day. That is the way it works to this day. If you ask two rabbis for an opinion on any non-settled topic, you will get between two and seven answers.

2. The reason number 1 was listed first is because all of this "shadowy religious Jew" imagery is nothing more than a sop to the idea of the evil secret Jewish organization lurking in the shadows. Jews have never been so organized. If you believe the Torah, even under Moses, they were not so organized. These images are a dog whistle and a visual boogey man. Observant Jews have faces, and most are really nice people.

3. The meme of 2 fits all too well into an image of the "acceptable Jews" and the "unacceptable Jews." To all too many, that means a Jew who isn't "too Jewish." For the ohhh so progressive set, they are a threat, because this is the founding monotheistic religion. Some academic sorts, and self styled enlightened ones think that getting rid of the source would make the world more enlightened. For many (not all, but many) assimilated Jews, seeing an observant Jew often causes all sorts of discomfort. It may come from guilt. It may come from feeling excluded. It may come from embarrassment, because they don't want to stick out to their non-Jewish friends and colleagues. In all these cases, keep the observant Jew in the shadows. If he goes away, all will be better.

4. The appropriate observant answer to those who think like 3, is not printable here - even if appropriate.

5. It is absolutely true that some amongst the Haredim are an astonishing pain in the ass. In fact, I would go so far as to say that some are an ignorant disgrace that rival the most crazy of any tent revival in America. It is also true that they are the fringe of the fringe, and even so, they are generally not the sorts to kill.

6. In the circles that I move in, the observant Jews, men and women, tend to have Ph.D.s, M.D.s and J.D.s. There is the occasional DDS, accountant or musician. For every nut-job that makes the press from the observant world, there are a lot more who are more educated and in tune with the enlightenment and the scientific method than the vast majority of all other Americans. That is just the numbers. The average American doesn't have PhDs, MDs JDs etc...

7. Point 6 is the other thing that really pisses off the "ohh so enlightened, we are so past this religion thing" segment of the left. Observant Jews do not easily fit into the contemptible "religious nut" mold that the hard left would like to put them into. Many observant Jews know vastly more science than the person who thinks that. The "enlightened" want to think that religious people are prima facie backwards. This disrupts that narrative.

8. Finally, the right. Nazi propaganda was the most pervasive use of shadowy Jews (pictured in silhouette) reaching out to conquer the world. And yeah, to hell with that. See number one.

This is all well and good, LVQ, but the overriding question is:

"Why did you people kill Our Lord?"

259 Targetpractice  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:37:27pm

re: #257 erik_t

Kidnapping was probably the answer.

/

Yeah, because what better way to make a kid feel better about his life than to rip him from the only home he's ever known, stick him with people who see him as a charity case who is in need of special care, and force feed him a philosophy that says the home he's known from the earliest years of his life was an abomination in the eyes of a deity he may not believe in and that he was kidnapped "for his own good"?

260 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:41:18pm

re: #258 austin_blue

This is all well and good, LVQ, but the overriding question is:

"Why did you people kill Our Lord?"

I always thought it was charming that the Early Church as part of the newly Christian Roman Empire, exonerated the Romans for sending Roman soldiers to execute Jesus in a Roman way.

The other stock answer to that is "Wait, according to Christianity, wasn't that the Divine plan all along and didn't your salvation depend on it?"

261 jaunte  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:42:45pm
262 Interesting Times  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:43:50pm
263 Kragar  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:44:31pm

re: #230 Gus

[Embedded content]

WTF is this horseshit?

264 freetoken  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:46:13pm

re: #251 Gus

Maybe Romney meant "chic", as in, "look at those fancy threads"?

265 austin_blue  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:51:51pm

re: #260 LudwigVanQuixote

I always thought it was charming that the Early Church as part of the newly Christian Roman Empire, exonerated the Romans for sending Roman soldiers to execute Jesus in a Roman way.

The other stock answer to that is "Wait, according to Christianity, wasn't that the Divine plan all along and didn't your salvation depend on it?"

Yes. The Jewish people were only instruments in God's Plan.

For more Christian silliness, check this out:

[Link: www.kens5.com...]

I'm thinking Grizzly Adams. Or Chewbacca.

266 Amory Blaine  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 6:52:54pm

re: #238 Gus

[Embedded content]

Hey we need all the jobs we can get.

/


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