Video: Inside the Disastrous Louisiana Science Education Act

Creationism is back, and spreading

ScienceAugust 2012 • Views: 25,869

Professor of philosophy Barbara Forrest gave this presentation in May, describing the horrifying state of science education in Louisiana, where the stealth creationism bill signed into law by Bobby Jindal is having the intended effect of legitimizing the teaching of creationist fairy tales as “science.”

Dr. Forrest goes into great detail about the deceptive code language used by the Republican Party to get these bills through the legislature, and the links between Gov. Jindal and religious right group Louisiana Family Forum.

While the right constantly fear-mongers about “stealth shariah,” they’re engaging in a very real conspiracy to sneak religious doctrine into America’s public schools by disguising it as “academic freedom.”

NCSE board member Barbara Forrest digs into the LSEA, why it passed, why repeal will be very difficult, how the legislative message of science denial is spreading to other states (like Tennessee), and more. When: 5/20/2012. Where: 3rd Annual Orange County Freethought Alliance Conference, Irvine, CA

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123 comments

Kragar Thu, Aug 9, 2012 1:04:24pm

14 Insane 'Facts' According to the Louisiana Charter School System

1. Dinosaurs and humans probably hung out: “Bible-believing Christians cannot accept any evolutionary interpretation. Dinosaurs and humans were definitely on the earth at the same time and may have even lived side by side within the past few thousand years.”—Life Science, 3rd ed., Bob Jones University Press, 2007

2. Dragons were totally real: “[Is] it possible that a fire-breathing animal really existed? Today some scientists are saying yes. They have found large chambers in certain dinosaur skulls…The large skull chambers could have contained special chemical-producing glands. When the animal forced the chemicals out of its mouth or nose, these substances may have combined and produced fire and smoke.”—Life Science, 3rd ed., Bob Jones University Press, 2007

Gus Thu, Aug 9, 2012 1:05:42pm

Backwards.

HappyWarrior Thu, Aug 9, 2012 1:06:49pm

re: #1 Kragar

14 Insane 'Facts' According to the Louisiana Charter School System

Most disturbing part is the KKK revisionism. You'd think that a Catholic and son of Indian immigrants that Jindal is would have a problem with that but I guess not when you're graveling to Tony "David Duke's mailing list" Perkins for support.

AK-47% Thu, Aug 9, 2012 1:07:36pm

I hate to say it, but there is almost no way to accomodate these people in a modern democratic system. They require their own reservations where they can practice their faith without interfering with others or being interfered with from outside.

I am willing to cede Louisiana, Arkansas, Missouri and Kansas to them in exchange for them leaving the rest of the USA alone.

Kragar Thu, Aug 9, 2012 1:08:21pm

I would like to thank Louisiana and Missouri for making sure they produce idiots. It really helps my kids when they don't have any real competition for jobs requiring an actual education.

Charles Johnson Thu, Aug 9, 2012 1:08:34pm

While the right constantly fear-mongers about stealth shariah, here's a case of a very real conspiracy to sneak religious doctrine into America's public schools by disguising it as "academic freedom."

Mostly sane, most of the time. Thu, Aug 9, 2012 1:08:48pm

re: #1 Kragar

14 Insane 'Facts' According to the Louisiana Charter School System

But Dinosaurs and people did hang out. I saw the proof. I was "babysitting" my grandmother (who can't be alone for more than short periods any more) and on Nickelodeon I saw a program called Dino Dan, and it was this kid and there were dinosaurs and it was set in the modern world...

I swear.

erik_t Thu, Aug 9, 2012 1:08:56pm

Bob Jones University Press

These words do not belong together.

Mostly sane, most of the time. Thu, Aug 9, 2012 1:09:34pm

In my copy of the scriptures it notes in the footnotes that "dragons" translates better to "jackals."

I hope someone pointed this out to them.

Kragar Thu, Aug 9, 2012 1:09:47pm

re: #6 Charles Johnson

While the right constantly fear-mongers about stealth shariah, here's a case of a very real conspiracy to sneak religious doctrine into America's public schools by disguising it as "academic freedom."

I think we're supposed to be too busy being distracted by the creeping Sharia to notice this.

HappyWarrior Thu, Aug 9, 2012 1:10:32pm

re: #6 Charles Johnson

While the right constantly fear-mongers about stealth shariah, here's a case of a very real conspiracy to sneak religious doctrine into America's public schools by disguising it as "academic freedom."

No kidding. But religious doctrine is okay with the right as long as it's the right religion. Of course, these are the same people who claim secular government is going to what leads us to Shariah. Yeah and setting up a precedent that favors religion over secular doesn't. Morons.

Gus Thu, Aug 9, 2012 1:14:41pm

CNN Poll: Obama leads Romney by 7 points. #politics on.cnn.com/MDlcIR
— CNN Breaking News (@cnnbrk) August 9, 2012

researchok Thu, Aug 9, 2012 1:15:01pm

Ms Forrest blogs here, Louisiana Coalition for Science

Mostly sane, most of the time. Thu, Aug 9, 2012 1:15:16pm

Speaking of kids and science:

Has anyone had any experience with this program?

[Link: kerbalspaceprogram.com...]

You build a rocket from realistic parts and the simulator shows you how you did. You're trying to achieve successful orbital or suborbital flight.

This looks like something the boys could spend hours doing and I would be happy with that.

AK-47% Thu, Aug 9, 2012 1:16:17pm

re: #12 Gus

Two concerns here: gas prices (a concerted efforts by speculator could cause them to spike in October) and food prices (no speculation even needed, the drought will take care of that)

researchok Thu, Aug 9, 2012 1:16:48pm

re: #5 Kragar

And it makes it easier to get into college

Full ride, maybe.

erik_t Thu, Aug 9, 2012 1:17:12pm

re: #14 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Speaking of kids and science:

Has anyone had any experience with this program?

[Link: kerbalspaceprogram.com...]

You build a rocket from realistic parts and the simulator shows you how you did. You're trying to achieve successful orbital or suborbital flight.

This looks like something the boys could spend hours doing and I would be happy with that.

KSP is awesome.

Five Muns out of five.

The Ghost of a Flea Thu, Aug 9, 2012 1:17:48pm

re: #6 Charles Johnson

While the right constantly fear-mongers about stealth shariah, here's a case of a very real conspiracy to sneak religious doctrine into America's public schools by disguising it as "academic freedom."

Not just religious doctrine. They're applying a RWNJ political template to the whole of history.

Also, a scary amount of effort re-establishing the idea of White Man's Burden, and a "re-read" of history wherein the acts of Europeans against non-European native societies were always justified.

To me, this shit is scary. It's like reading textbooks from Victorian England, or Meiji Japan.

Our Precious Bodily Fluids Thu, Aug 9, 2012 1:19:28pm

re: #6 Charles Johnson

While the right constantly fear-mongers about stealth shariah, here's a case of a very real conspiracy to sneak religious doctrine into America's public schools by disguising it as "academic freedom."

The right has spent the last 4 years raising projection to such a high state of artfulness that I'm surprised there's not an Oscar category for it.

lawhawk Thu, Aug 9, 2012 1:20:56pm

Creationism has no place in a science classroom. No place at all.

There is nothing scientific about creationism.

Targetpractice Thu, Aug 9, 2012 1:21:13pm

re: #6 Charles Johnson

While the right constantly fear-mongers about stealth shariah, here's a case of a very real conspiracy to sneak religious doctrine into America's public schools by disguising it as "academic freedom."

I've said before that the problem these folks have with sharia and other forms of theocracy is that it's not the "right" kind of theocracy.

HappyWarrior Thu, Aug 9, 2012 1:23:28pm

re: #18 The Ghost of a Flea

Not just religious doctrine. They're applying a RWNJ political template to the whole of history.

Also, a scary amount of effort re-establishing the idea of White Man's Burden, and a "re-read" of history wherein the acts of Europeans against non-European native societies were always justified.

To me, this shit is scary. It's like reading textbooks from Victorian England, or Meiji Japan.

To these people anyone who questions or analyzes unsavory parts of our history is an anti-American leftist. They've been doing this kind of shit to professors who rightfully point out that our own history isn't always so cut and dry. As a former history major, the complexities of history is what keeps me fascinated.

Interesting Times Thu, Aug 9, 2012 1:25:18pm

re: #19 Gov. Bobby Genitals

The right has spent the last 4 years raising projection to such a high state of artfulness that I'm surprised there's not an Oscar category for it.

Quoted to preserve the display name for posterity :)

Our Precious Bodily Fluids Thu, Aug 9, 2012 1:27:03pm

re: #14 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Speaking of kids and science:

Has anyone had any experience with this program?

[Link: kerbalspaceprogram.com...]

You build a rocket from realistic parts and the simulator shows you how you did. You're trying to achieve successful orbital or suborbital flight.

This looks like something the boys could spend hours doing and I would be happy with that.

Simulator? For shame.

[Link: www.hobbyspace.com...]

Youtube Video

Gus Thu, Aug 9, 2012 1:27:19pm

“I feel the students should know there are weaknesses and strengths in both scientific arguments.”

LOL

erik_t Thu, Aug 9, 2012 1:27:22pm

.....

“You know, in the past, when people pointed out that something was inaccurate, why, campaigns pulled the ad,” Romney said on the radio. “They were embarrassed. Today, they just blast ahead. You know, the various fact checkers look at some of these charges in the Obama ads and they say that they’re wrong, and inaccurate, and yet he just keeps on running them.”

Mitt, you sniveling shit.

Kragar Thu, Aug 9, 2012 1:28:19pm

re: #16 researchok

And it makes it easier to get into college

Full ride, maybe.

I've got disability after 8 years in the Marines, so tuition and fees are waived for any California Community, Calstate or UC school for my kids. Get them a scholarship or a grant and we're looking good.

SpaceJesus Thu, Aug 9, 2012 1:34:44pm

USA? USA.

Gus Thu, Aug 9, 2012 1:35:46pm

re: #14 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Speaking of kids and science:

Has anyone had any experience with this program?

[Link: kerbalspaceprogram.com...]

You build a rocket from realistic parts and the simulator shows you how you did. You're trying to achieve successful orbital or suborbital flight.

This looks like something the boys could spend hours doing and I would be happy with that.

There's a shout out to Mormons in the video. Right after 24:00.

Kragar Thu, Aug 9, 2012 1:35:59pm

re: #28 SpaceJesus

USA? USA.

Republic or Corporation?
/

SpaceJesus Thu, Aug 9, 2012 1:37:19pm

good job, gals

Targetpractice Thu, Aug 9, 2012 1:38:30pm

Thing that pisses me off isn't so much that they're basically shredding the idea of separation of state/church, but that they're setting these kids up for failure. Seriously, when these kids get out in the real world, how many corporations are gonna want to spend the time and money to deprogram all this gunk out of their heads? We're already importing an increasing percentage of our skilled workers because this nation's falling behind in mathematics and the sciences, now we want to further handicap ourselves.

Lidane Thu, Aug 9, 2012 1:38:59pm

On a related wingnut "education" note, it's nice to see that David Barton's hackery has been pulled from the shelves.

Also, WTF Louisiana? I really would hate to live in the reality that these people claim for themselves.

AK-47% Thu, Aug 9, 2012 1:39:39pm

re: #32 Targetpractice

Seriously, when these kids get out in the real world, how many corporations are gonna want to spend the time and money to deprogram all this gunk out of their heads?

They'll have no trouble getting a job with Chick-Fil-A

Targetpractice Thu, Aug 9, 2012 1:41:08pm

re: #34 Expand Your Ground

They'll have no trouble getting a job with Chick-Fil-A

Yeah, that's pretty much it, we're setting ourselves up, in a generation or two, to be the global supplier of cheap labor. Rest of the world's on the fast track to modernization and heavy industry, and here we are, teaching our kids that Adam and Eve are the source of all human life.

erik_t Thu, Aug 9, 2012 1:41:29pm

re: #34 Expand Your Ground

They'll have no trouble getting a job with Chick-Fil-A

Dragon sandwiches for everyone!

Gus Thu, Aug 9, 2012 1:41:51pm

Zack Kopplin
@RepealtheLSEA

Repealing the Louisiana Science Education Act

Mattand Thu, Aug 9, 2012 1:43:16pm

From TPM: Radio Silence From Romney As Conservatives Demand Answers On Health Care

I'm wondering if this is a signal that Mitt's going to actually embrace his signature achievement. The article points out that the alleged gaffe happened twice in 24 hours. Maybe it's a test balloon to see what the reactions will be.

To be honest, it's the smartest thing for him to do right now. It would take some of the edge off of his heartless rich guy perception, at least among the mythical "independent" and "undecided" voters.

Lidane Thu, Aug 9, 2012 1:43:18pm

re: #32 Targetpractice

Thing that pisses me off isn't so much that they're basically shredding the idea of separation of state/church, but that they're setting these kids up for failure.

YES. THIS. That's what kills me the most.

We live in an age where technology, science, and advances that have been made possible by all the things that Creationists hate (reason, intellect, anything after the Dark Ages, etc.) are pretty much mandatory skills, and these people insist on teaching kids that the world is less than 10,000 years old and that the Flintstones was a documentary, not a cartoon.

They're setting our kids back by generations and making future generations dumber by denying science and reality. WTF.

Gus Thu, Aug 9, 2012 1:43:33pm

NCSE | National Center for Science Education - Defending the Teaching of Evolution & Climate Science

erik_t Thu, Aug 9, 2012 1:45:55pm

Karl Rove sees South Carolina as a tossup. Karl Rove is on powerful, powerful drugs.

allegro Thu, Aug 9, 2012 1:46:24pm

re: #26 erik_t

“You know, in the past, when people pointed out that something was inaccurate, why, campaigns pulled the ad,” Romney said on the radio. “They were embarrassed. Today, they just blast ahead. You know, the various fact checkers look at some of these charges in the Obama ads and they say that they’re wrong, and inaccurate, and yet he just keeps on running them.”

Romney translated: Whaaa! They're being mean to meee! Whaaa! They're trying to do what I and my party have been doing for years only they're doing it better!

When Obama has been hit with the incessant lies, hatred, libel, ad nauseum I haven't heard a single moment of whining like a 4 year old whose brother stepped on his cookie. Like a grown-up professional, he either ignores the nonsense or answers it with firmness, grace, and often humor (see Trump, Donald). Mittens? Take a lesson, cupcake. Stop whining and step up to the plate with actual evidence. You can do it. Release your tax returns.

allegro Thu, Aug 9, 2012 1:48:08pm

re: #38 Mattand

From TPM: Radio Silence From Romney As Conservatives Demand Answers On Health Care

I'm wondering if this is a signal that Mitt's going to actually embrace his signature achievement. The article points out that the alleged gaffe happened twice in 24 hours. Maybe it's a test balloon to see what the reactions will be.

To be honest, it's the smartest thing for him to do right now. It would take some of the edge off of his heartless rich guy perception, at least among the mythical "independent" and "undecided" voters.

Naw. Much too late for that now. It would only further solidify the Etch-a-sketch moniker. Deservedly.

TDG2112 Thu, Aug 9, 2012 1:50:24pm

re: #32 Targetpractice

People in the US keep pretending that we've already made it to "The City of Tomorrow," while the rest of the world knows they have a long way to catch up. Ever since we stopped going to the moon we've been coasting. We've forgotten that once tomorrow comes, it is already gone and moved ahead. If we want to reach the City of Tomorrow we can't stop chasing it.

A new Neil deGrasse Tyson video talking about his new book and that very topic:

Youtube Video

Or if you haven't seen it already and can't sit through 2 hours of CSPAN book thing, here it is in 2 minutes:

Youtube Video

[Link: www.penny4nasa.org...]
[Link: www.fightforspace.com...]

Lidane Thu, Aug 9, 2012 1:50:29pm

re: #41 erik_t

Karl Rove sees South Carolina as a tossup. Karl Rove is on powerful, powerful drugs.

South Carolina as a tossup? He's kidding, right?

freetoken Thu, Aug 9, 2012 1:50:30pm

It's not just Louisiana.

From North Carolina:

Lee charter school awaits final approval

The state board of education held discussions regarding approval of 25 new charter schools, including the Howard and Lillian Lee Scholars Charter School, at its monthly meetings last week and is scheduled to make a final determination on Sept. 6.

The board’s Public Charter School Advisory Council has recommended the 25 schools for approval.

The Lee school, which if approved will be located somewhere in the Chapel Hill-Carrboro community, will be administered in partnership with Michigan-based National Heritage Academies (NHA), which operates more than 70 charter schools across the country, including five in North Carolina [...]

Another concern is that NHA has faced litigation in the past for presenting creationism as a scientifically based theory and for promoting religious activities.

The Lee school’s original application included a section on religious freedom and teaching religion, but the section was removed from the re-application the school had to file when it missed its 2012 deadline.

[...]

This is one of the problems with the entire "charter school" phenomenon.

Gus Thu, Aug 9, 2012 1:51:08pm

Wingnut butthurt is probably up to eleventy right about now.

erik_t Thu, Aug 9, 2012 1:51:29pm

re: #45 Lidane

South Carolina as a tossup? He's kidding, right?

I don't even know.

Gus Thu, Aug 9, 2012 1:52:34pm

Waiting For The Doom Article From @politico CNN: Obama +7, PEW: Obama +10, Reuters: Obama +7, NBC/WSJ: Obama +6, Bloomberg: Obama +13 #POLL
— Jeff Gauvin (@JeffersonObama) August 9, 2012

Targetpractice Thu, Aug 9, 2012 1:52:57pm

re: #45 Lidane

South Carolina as a tossup? He's kidding, right?

Kinda hard to say, even Electoral Vote says that, if you disregard Rasmussen, then SC is listed as "Barely Obama."

Targetpractice Thu, Aug 9, 2012 1:53:27pm

re: #49 Gus

[Embedded content]

Politico Headline: "Election 'Too Close to Call'"

SpaceJesus Thu, Aug 9, 2012 1:53:57pm

If Obama carries South Carolina, then it truly is the twilight of America's assholes

Kragar Thu, Aug 9, 2012 1:54:28pm

Saying Creationism is just as valid as Evolution is like saying Uwe Boll is just as good a Director as Alfred Hitchcock or Akira Kurosawa.

nines09 Thu, Aug 9, 2012 1:54:49pm

"Flintstones, meet The Flintstones; They're the Modern Stone Age Family."
"Daddy?" WHAT? "Why is the sky blue?" BECAUSE GOD SAID SO! NOW SHUT THE #$@% UP!!

freetoken Thu, Aug 9, 2012 1:55:46pm

re: #49 Gus

DEWEY WINS!

b_sharp Thu, Aug 9, 2012 1:56:21pm

re: #54 nines09

"Flintstones, meet The Flintstones; They're the Modern Stone Age Family."
"Daddy?" WHAT? "Why is the sky blue?" BECAUSE GOD SAID SO! NOW SHUT THE #$@% UP!!

Daddy actually said "number dollar at percent" too.

Gus Thu, Aug 9, 2012 1:57:23pm

New CNN/ORC Poll: Pres Obama 52%, Mitt Romney 45% wp.me/p4HKM-12Qe
— Team Barack Obama (@TeamBarackObama) August 9, 2012

Gus Thu, Aug 9, 2012 1:57:44pm

Just wanted to see it again. ;)

b_sharp Thu, Aug 9, 2012 1:58:14pm

The right keeps claiming the US is crumbling under Obama and will implode if Obama gets reelected.

Where's the evidence of this?

Kragar Thu, Aug 9, 2012 1:58:57pm

re: #59 b_sharp

The right keeps claiming the US is crumbling under Obama and will implode if Obama gets reelected.

Where's the evidence of this?

Because shut up.

Gus Thu, Aug 9, 2012 1:59:48pm

re: #59 b_sharp

The right keeps claiming the US is crumbling under Obama and will implode if Obama gets reelected.

Where's the evidence of this?

Same place they keep their evidence for creationism. Look under your pillow.

nines09 Thu, Aug 9, 2012 2:00:06pm

re: #56 b_sharp

From the town of Bedrock, why they're a page right out of history. Film at 11TY.

nines09 Thu, Aug 9, 2012 2:01:10pm

re: #60 Kragar

You know. "Where?" YOU KNOW. "Have proof?" COMONYOUKNOW!!

b_sharp Thu, Aug 9, 2012 2:01:13pm

OT:

I just spent 2.5 hours of my valuable time helping an HP support guy figure out one of my customer's laptop has a dead keyboard, after I told him at the very beginning it had a dead keyboard.

Gus Thu, Aug 9, 2012 2:01:15pm

Speaking of Florida and Ohio...

Ohio and Florida public schools lock mentally disabled children in closets thkpr.gs/NgYqVn
— ThinkProgress (@thinkprogress) August 9, 2012

Lidane Thu, Aug 9, 2012 2:01:32pm

re: #59 b_sharp

The right keeps claiming the US is crumbling under Obama and will implode if Obama gets reelected.

Where's the evidence of this?

The same place where they hid the evidence that a second Clinton term would doom us all.

Targetpractice Thu, Aug 9, 2012 2:02:17pm

re: #57 Gus

[Embedded content]

Right about now, I imagine the Romney campaign has begun to sweat bullets. It's two months to go, they're losing ground in the polls, and the debates are still little over a month away. They've yet to find a topic they can gain any real amount of traction on, while Obama's got them boxed into a corner, trying (and failing miserably) to provide satisfactory answers to matters both great (healthcare) and small (tax returns).

HappyWarrior Thu, Aug 9, 2012 2:02:35pm

I expect Romney's VP to be announced soon. That campaign needs a bump even if it's a small one. Romney's campaign has been on a downhill slide ever since the Supreme Court ruled in favor of the administration in the health care lawsuits. They were so convinced, Mitt especially that USSC and Roberts especially was going to take their side that they probably never even planned or at least imagined him not doing so. Plus, Romney's record as a "job creator" is being shown to be a sham and Mitt doesn't get any more likable.

b_sharp Thu, Aug 9, 2012 2:02:37pm

re: #65 Gus

Speaking of Florida and Ohio...

[Embedded content]

What the fuck?
Time for a few jobs to disappear.

Gus Thu, Aug 9, 2012 2:02:42pm

re: #66 Lidane

The same place where they hid the evidence that a second Clinton term would doom us all.

Same place they hide Obama's real nirth certificate!!!

Decatur Deb Thu, Aug 9, 2012 2:02:56pm

re: #51 Targetpractice

Politico Headline: "Election 'Too Close to Call'"

I'm working on the assumption that it's close enough to steal. GOTV.

Kragar Thu, Aug 9, 2012 2:03:29pm

re: #65 Gus

Speaking of Florida and Ohio...

[Embedded content]

I need to break something.

TDG2112 Thu, Aug 9, 2012 2:03:46pm

"If you're scientifically literate the world looks very different to you"

Youtube Video

nines09 Thu, Aug 9, 2012 2:04:33pm

Cognitive thought. The first step towards Satan.

Gus Thu, Aug 9, 2012 2:04:35pm

re: #71 Decatur Deb

I'm working on the assumption that it's close enough to steal. GOTV.

The Republican Party is working furiously to attain those goals...

Voter fraud is a serious issue!

Targetpractice Thu, Aug 9, 2012 2:05:19pm

re: #68 HappyWarrior

I expect Romney's VP to be announced soon. That campaign needs a bump even if it's a small one. Romney's campaign has been on a downhill slide ever since the Supreme Court ruled in favor of the administration in the health care lawsuits. They were so convinced, Mitt especially that USSC and Roberts especially was going to take their side that they probably never even planned or at least imagined him not doing so. Plus, Romney's record as a "job creator" is being shown to be a sham and Mitt doesn't get any more likable.

They still got a little over two weeks to go before the convention, so I imagine they'll keep the VP pick in their pocket a little longer, if only to use the teasing of making a choice as a way of distracting the press.

Kragar Thu, Aug 9, 2012 2:06:09pm

re: #74 nines09

Cognitive thought. The first step towards Satan.

Once you question, you're damned for eternity.

HappyWarrior Thu, Aug 9, 2012 2:06:35pm

re: #76 Targetpractice

They still got a little over two weeks to go before the convention, so I imagine they'll keep the VP pick in their pocket a little longer, if only to use the teasing of making a choice as a way of distracting the press.

Yeah I guess so. Anyhow, it's going to be interested to see who they choose. I think Romney's in worse shape than McCain was. Romney's lack of likability I think is one of the things that is going to do him in ultimately.

freetoken Thu, Aug 9, 2012 2:06:47pm

MP3 Audio

Gus Thu, Aug 9, 2012 2:07:04pm

Locked Away: How Ohio Schools Misuse Seclusion Rooms

Some Ohio children with disabilities are regularly isolated in cell-like rooms, closets or old offices when they behave badly.

The rooms are supposed to be used to calm or restrain children who become violent. But an investigation by StateImpact Ohio and The Columbus Dispatch, found that they’re being misused.

Some teachers use them to punish children. Many times, placing children in the rooms is a convenience for frustrated employees.

And there is little evidence that seclusion helps children but plenty of evidence that it hurts them...

In Ohio, seclusion is banned in mental institutions. There are strict limits on the use of seclusion in children’s residential facilities. In public schools, seclusion is perfectly acceptable and wholly unregulated...

nines09 Thu, Aug 9, 2012 2:07:37pm

re: #76 Targetpractice

They still got a little over two weeks to go before the convention, so I imagine they'll keep the VP pick in their pocket a little longer, if only to use the teasing of making a choice as a way of distracting the press.

How much is riding on Mitt going whole hog and bringing in a cinder block as a running mate? Or slipping beneath the waves and bring in Newt, or Rick, or Michele, or a plain brown bag with writing on the front no one can read?

Gus Thu, Aug 9, 2012 2:08:17pm

Obama's War on Religion is making it hard for devout people of faith to worship at the Chick-Fil-A of their choice.
— Frank Conniff (@FrankConniff) August 9, 2012

Targetpractice Thu, Aug 9, 2012 2:08:20pm

re: #78 HappyWarrior

Yeah I guess so. Anyhow, it's going to be interested to see who they choose. I think Romney's in worse shape than McCain was. Romney's lack of likability I think is one of the things that is going to do him in ultimately.

I very much agree, his favorability has been described as "plateauing" in some press reports, as no matter how many county fairs he shows up at or hardware stores he gets photographed exiting, folks don't believe he's anything more than a rich prick.

b_sharp Thu, Aug 9, 2012 2:08:46pm

re: #73 TDG2112

"If you're scientifically literate the world looks very different to you"

[Embedded content]

Yah, but if you're not scientifically literate you don't have to think, and that's a nice comfortable place to be for some.

Kragar Thu, Aug 9, 2012 2:08:55pm

I've found a kindred spirit ( the response, not the idiot who posted the picture):

Image: zOSw4zq4jUa-BU14JJoX1w2.jpg

Gus Thu, Aug 9, 2012 2:09:30pm

re: #83 Targetpractice

I very much agree, his favorability has been described as "plateauing" in some press reports, as no matter how many county fairs he shows up at or hardware stores he gets photographed exiting, folks don't believe he's anything more than a rich prick.

Radial saw? What's that?
-- Mitt Romney

freetoken Thu, Aug 9, 2012 2:09:32pm

Be sure to check out Reagan starting at 15:10 in that audio.

My, how things have changed. Reagan is now the patron saint of the GOP.

Targetpractice Thu, Aug 9, 2012 2:10:08pm

re: #81 nines09

How much is riding on Mitt going whole hog and bringing in a cinder block as a running mate? Or slipping beneath the waves and bring in Newt, or Rick, or Michele, or a plain brown bag with writing on the front no one can read?

Nah, you want the ultimate bad choice, you go with some in the press who are openly suggesting he bring on Paul Ryan as his VP.

nines09 Thu, Aug 9, 2012 2:10:28pm

re: #87 freetoken

Be sure to check out Reagan starting at 15:10 in that audio.

My, how things have changed. Reagan is now the patron saint of the GOP.

Reagan is Officially El Cid.

lawhawk Thu, Aug 9, 2012 2:10:35pm

You know things are bad for Congress when the TSA outpolls you.

The poll shows that 54 percent think TSA is doing an excellent or good job of handling the screening responsibilities at U.S. airports. Just 30 percent rated the agency’s overall performance as fair.

Compare that to public opinion of Congress, which has an approval rating hovering around 16 percent.

“We asked a different question about TSA than we typically do about Congress,” Jeff Jones, managing editor of the Gallup Poll, told NBC News. “But since the ratings of TSA are generally good and ratings of Congress are so low, I think it is safe to say people are more positive about TSA than about Congress.”

Targetpractice Thu, Aug 9, 2012 2:10:55pm

re: #86 Gus

Radial saw? What's that?
-- Mitt Romney

Somebody mentioned he was seen in a grocery store recently and my first thought was "Did any reporters get a picture of him staring in wonder at the bar code scanner in the checkout line?"

nines09 Thu, Aug 9, 2012 2:11:01pm

re: #88 Targetpractice

A lit stick of dynamite?

b_sharp Thu, Aug 9, 2012 2:11:16pm

re: #86 Gus

Radial saw? What's that?
-- Mitt Romney

It's like an old saw, but different.

Lidane Thu, Aug 9, 2012 2:12:18pm

re: #78 HappyWarrior

I think Romney's in worse shape than McCain was. Romney's lack of likability I think is one of the things that is going to do him in ultimately.

For all his flaws as a candidate, McCain had a much better time of it than Romney has had so far, especially in terms of likability. McCain had the American war hero bonafides down cold. The guy was in the Hanoi Hilton, for crying out loud. He had a hell of a story. What hurt McCain was that the base hated him and thought he was a RINO, so he panicked and unleashed Caribou Barbie on the rest of us.

Romney is just a white bread, draft dodging version of John Kerry, but with less charisma. He's a rich patrician Masshole that no one really likes or wants as a nominee, but he was the best of a shitty field.

HappyWarrior Thu, Aug 9, 2012 2:12:27pm

To be a fly on the wall in his campaign.

nines09 Thu, Aug 9, 2012 2:12:47pm

re: #91 Targetpractice

Every time it beeped he went for his phone.

Targetpractice Thu, Aug 9, 2012 2:12:53pm

re: #92 nines09

A lit stick of dynamite?

More like a nuke. His support of the "Ryan Plan" has so far been on the back burner, as it's still fairly vague and Ryan himself has gone silent beyond the occasional appearance on the Sunday talk circuit. But putting Ryan front and center would pretty much reduce Romney's election chances to utter ruin.

b_sharp Thu, Aug 9, 2012 2:13:05pm

re: #88 Targetpractice

Nah, you want the ultimate bad choice, you go with some in the press who are openly suggesting he bring on Paul Ryan as his VP.

I think he needs Ron Paul.

allegro Thu, Aug 9, 2012 2:13:49pm

re: #65 Gus

Speaking of Florida and Ohio...

[Embedded content]

The state has just three stipulations for using seclusion rooms: teachers may not choke or suffocate students, the room must be approved by a fire marshal, and the lights must be left on.

They have to be told that?!? What the hell kind of people are these?

100

HappyWarrior Thu, Aug 9, 2012 2:13:54pm

re: #94 Lidane

For all his flaws as a candidate, McCain had a much better time of it than Romney has had so far, especially in terms of likability. McCain had the American war hero bonafides down cold. The guy was in the Hanoi Hilton, for crying out loud. He had a hell of a story. What hurt McCain was that the base hated him and thought he was a RINO, so he panicked and unleashed Caribou Barbie on the rest of us.

Romney is just a white bread, draft dodging version of John Kerry, but with less charisma. He's a rich patrician Masshole that no one really likes or wants as a nominee, but he was the best of a shitty field.

Yeah that's what I was getting at. McCain had problems as a candidate but he was likable. Hell, I liked the guy, had no desire to vote for him especially when he really started pandering to the right but at his core, McCain was a likable candidate. Romney's only real appeal is to other rich assholes which is what is keeping this thing from being a blowout IMO.

101

Targetpractice Thu, Aug 9, 2012 2:13:59pm

re: #98 b_sharp

I think he needs Ron Paul.

Crazy Uncle Liberty won't ever settle for second place, not after how much "success" he's had this year. And it sure as hell wouldn't satisfy the Paulians.

102

Gus Thu, Aug 9, 2012 2:14:01pm

re: #87 freetoken

Be sure to check out Reagan starting at 15:10 in that audio.

My, how things have changed. Reagan is now the patron saint of the GOP.

Whoa! Occupy Reagan. This was before his "change" obviously. Back when he was a decent man and a Democrat. ;)

103

Kragar Thu, Aug 9, 2012 2:14:07pm

Is Bryan Fischer Trying to Get Himself Sued?

On his radio program yesterday, Bryan Fischer proclaimed that Lisa Miller had a responsibility to God to defy court orders granting visitation and custody rights to her former partner, Janet Jenkins, and kidnap her daughter and flee the country.

Fischer returned to the case today where he baselessly but repeatedly asserted that Jenkins sexually abused the girl:

104

Lidane Thu, Aug 9, 2012 2:14:54pm

re: #98 b_sharp

I think he needs Ron Paul.

My karma's not good enough for Mitt Romney to tap Ron Paul as his VP.

105

b_sharp Thu, Aug 9, 2012 2:15:30pm

re: #101 Targetpractice

Crazy Uncle Liberty won't ever settle for second place, not after how much "success" he's had this year. And it sure as hell wouldn't satisfy the Paulians.

Everybody needs a crazy uncle to visit the house once in a while.

106

nines09 Thu, Aug 9, 2012 2:15:34pm

re: #97 Targetpractice

I want to see Mitt cry at the debates.

107

Targetpractice Thu, Aug 9, 2012 2:15:55pm

re: #104 Lidane

My karma's not good enough for Mitt Romney to tap Ron Paul as his VP.

Give a few bottles of pure water to some beggar outside of town and you'll fix that karma problem.

/gamer moment

108

b_sharp Thu, Aug 9, 2012 2:16:16pm

re: #106 nines09

I want to see Mitt cry at the debates.

Using what emotions?

109

Lidane Thu, Aug 9, 2012 2:16:23pm

re: #105 b_sharp

Everybody needs a crazy uncle to visit the house once in a while.

Sometimes I think the GOP is nothing but a bunch of crazy uncles.

110

nines09 Thu, Aug 9, 2012 2:17:18pm

re: #108 b_sharp

Right. He may just appear confused for a minute or two before the software implodes.

111

dragonath Thu, Aug 9, 2012 2:17:22pm

re: #91 Targetpractice

Somebody mentioned he was seen in a grocery store recently and my first thought was "Did any reporters get a picture of him staring in wonder at the bar code scanner in the checkout line?"

Knowing Romney, he's probably the guy who came up with the self-checkout line.

With the help of my terrible wonderful machines we'll never need to hire retail clerks ever again

112

b_sharp Thu, Aug 9, 2012 2:17:33pm

re: #109 Lidane

Sometimes I think the GOP is nothing but a bunch of crazy uncles.

I'm the crazy uncle in my family and I'm likeable as hell.

113

b_sharp Thu, Aug 9, 2012 2:18:23pm

re: #110 nines09

Right. He may just appear confused for a minute or two before the software implodes.

He would suffer multiple BSODs, dumps and reboots.

114

Targetpractice Thu, Aug 9, 2012 2:18:40pm

re: #112 b_sharp

I'm the crazy uncle in my family and I'm likeable as hell.

My "crazy" uncle's a pretty swell guy, if a bit quiet. Apparently he's making up for years of being a hellraiser when he was my age.

115

Gus Thu, Aug 9, 2012 2:18:45pm

re: #108 b_sharp

Using what emotions?

All of the sudden Romney turns blue and you see all this white lettering on his face. Something about VXD...

116

Targetpractice Thu, Aug 9, 2012 2:19:28pm

re: #115 Gus

All of the sudden Romney turns blue and you see all this white lettering on his face. Something about VXD...

//

Feelings.EXE not found.
Abort, Retry, Fail?

117

nines09 Thu, Aug 9, 2012 2:20:27pm

re: #113 b_sharp

Maybe like the cyborg in the first Alien movie. I have to remember to tape it. Just might happen.

118

b_sharp Thu, Aug 9, 2012 2:20:59pm

re: #116 Targetpractice

Feelings.EXE not found.
Abort, Retry, Fail?

I think his Feelings.exe file has been corrupted.

119

Gus Thu, Aug 9, 2012 2:22:37pm

re: #118 b_sharp

I think his Feelings.exe file has been corrupted.

romneyconfig /flushemotions

120

nines09 Thu, Aug 9, 2012 2:24:06pm

Back to you Mr Romney.....Mitt; "Who?" Moderator; You, Mr Romney. Mitt; "I'm sorry ,there is no Mr Romney here,here,here....bbzzz...zzzzp....zzzaaaa..

121

danarchy Thu, Aug 9, 2012 2:28:24pm

re: #67 Targetpractice

Right about now, I imagine the Romney campaign has begun to sweat bullets. It's two months to go, they're losing ground in the polls, and the debates are still little over a month away. They've yet to find a topic they can gain any real amount of traction on, while Obama's got them boxed into a corner, trying (and failing miserably) to provide satisfactory answers to matters both great (healthcare) and small (tax returns).

Closer to 3 months, but yeah. Only concern is Romney and the RNC have been out-fundraising Obama and the DNC for several months now and spending about half as much so they have to be getting ready to release a torrent of advertising, probably right after the convention.

122

TDG2112 Thu, Aug 9, 2012 3:02:57pm

re: #84 b_sharp

Sure they have to still think. They have to think "Gosh, why is it I still get fat when I eat so much health food?" when in fact they are eating yogurt, not in place of, but in addition to their regular junk food diet.

They also have to think, "gosh, why is it I have such rotten luck in life?" after they get evicted for the umpteenth time, instead of going out and finding a way to get a career or skill they can use to get and keep a job.

But I guess you're right. They ask themselves those questions rhetorically (if at all) instead of actually trying to answer it.

And don't tell me I'm just smarter than everyone just because I have a CCNP and will probably get my CCIE in a year or two. Most of the above type of people I've encountered know as much if not more about some odd topic than I know about Cisco routers and switches. Be it the "dumb blond" who knows everything there is to know about cosmetology, or some blue collar worker who knows every baseball statistic of every great player to ever live.

I look at "normal people" and I'm pretty sure my brain is less capable than the average person. I just don't let that get in my way.

123

labman57 Fri, Aug 10, 2012 6:33:48pm

There will come a day -- probably sooner than later -- when Western civilization will look back and regard the Religious Right's opposition to "evolution by natural selection" as absurd as the Church's denial of the existence of atoms, or the vacuum, or the sun as the center of the solar system in past centuries.

I actually have no problem with the idea of discussing the merits of Creationism or ID in the public school classroom. It would make a fine topic in a social studies course on Religions in Society. But this topic has no business in a biology classroom, since science is based on verifiable evidence along with empirically and mathematically testable hypotheses, whereas religious beliefs are by definition faith-based.

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