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Paul Ryan’s Total War on Women’s Rights

One of the most extreme anti-choice fanatics in Congress
Politics • Views: 30,682

If you’ve been watching this campaign so far, you’ll remember that Mitt Romney spent considerable political capital trying to convince women he was on their side, despite the Republican Party’s unceasing attacks on women’s reproductive rights.

It’s emblematic of Romney’s unfocused, self-contradicting campaign that he then picks a vice presidential candidate who’s one of the most extreme anti-choice fanatics on Capitol Hill: Paul Ryan Sponsored Fetal Personhood Bill, Opposes Family Planning Funds.

Despite Mitt Romney’s efforts to court women voters ahead of November, he chose a running mate who is far outside the mainstream on women’s health issues. Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) cosponsored a bill that would give fetuses full personhood rights from the moment of fertilization, which was even rejected by voters in the socially conservative state of Mississippi. He voted to defund federal family planning programs, authored a budget that dismantles Social Security, Medicaid and Medicare, all of which disproportionately aid and employ women, and voted multiple times to prevent women in the military from using their own money to pay for abortions at military hospitals.

Ryan also supported a highly controversial bill that Democrats nicknamed the “Let Women Die Act,” which would have allowed hospitals to refuse to provide a woman emergency abortion care, even if her life is on the line.

Planned Parenthood Action Fund said in a statement on Saturday morning that Ryan has earned zero percent on its women’s health voting scorecard, and other women’s rights group expressed similar alarm.

I’ll go out on a limb and predict that having Ryan on the ticket isn’t going to improve Romney’s sky-high unfavorable rating among women voters.

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273 comments

1 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:10:41pm

I’ll go out on a limb and predict that having Ryan on the ticket isn’t going to improve Romney’s sky-high unfavorable rating among women voters.
In fact, it may make it worse. Romney's got a problem with women voters. Paulie here isn't going to help him there.

2 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:10:47pm

Yeah Willard, sorry, but waving Ann in our face as hard as possible is not going to make up for your VP pick. You have absolutely no clue how badly you just screwed yourself with women voters.

3 Kragar  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:12:22pm

To the GOP base, those are all pluses.

4 erik_t  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:12:42pm

re: #2 Targetpractice

Yeah Willard, sorry, but waving Ann in our face as hard as possible is not going to make up for your VP pick. You have absolutely no clue how badly you just screwed yourself with women voters.

Hmm, where to FTFY...

You have absolutely no clue how badly you just screwed yourself with women voters.

Well...

You have absolutely no clue how badly you just screwed yourself with women voters.

Closer...

You have absolutely no clue how badly you just screwed yourself with women voters.

There, I like that one.

5 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:13:32pm

re: #4 erik_t

Hmm, where to FTFY...

Well...

Closer...

There, I like that one.

Beautiful, I love it. My hats off to ya.

6 CriticalDragon1177  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:13:44pm

Charles Johnson

You wrote
"ll go out on a limb and predict that having Ryan on the ticket isn't going to improve Romney's sky-high unfavorable rating among women"

You're probably right, which will only increase his chances of loosing. Obama might not be perfect, but he'll be better than these two.

7 jaunte  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:14:20pm
8 Gus  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:15:18pm

What war on women?

9 Iwouldprefernotto  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:15:22pm

But Condi is speaking at the convention.

10 jaunte  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:15:35pm
11 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:16:21pm

re: #9 Iwouldprefernotto

But Condi is speaking at the convention.

And I can't begin to imagine the amount of money she's getting paid to be there.

12 Aye Pod  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:16:50pm

Full Metal Wingnut

13 jaunte  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:19:31pm
14 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:20:22pm

That one bill about hospitals being allowed to deny abortions to a woman even if her life is in charge is simply horrifying and honestly should be even to the most strident opponent of legal abortion. Really goes to show you that life is not the issue to people like Ryan. It's telling women what they can and cannot do with their bodies.

15 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:21:35pm

re: #8 Gus

What war on women?

It's not a war: it's helping women understand that they're physically and mentally weak and incapable of moral agency without a sufficiently masculine government system assisting them in making the right choice.

It's not a choice or a child: it's a soul that should be properly indoctrinated in the syncretic theology/political philosophy of modern Christian conservatism, preferably after being taken away from its whore mother and passed on to a proper, God-fearing, child-beating family where the patriarch reigns unquestioned.

Addendum:

You can't be at war with your chattel.

16 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:22:00pm

re: #13 jaunte

[Embedded content]

We heard this from people like Rick when Palin was picked too. Yeah so scared of a guy whose plan when people were asked about it was more unpopular than Obama's health care plan. That's what makes this funny. The Republicans have been telling us that ACA was shoved down our throats. So what to do, they attach their nominee to a guy whose proposal was attacked as too extreme by Newt Gingrich. Newt Gingrich........

17 Gus  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:22:09pm

re: #13 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Yep. Panic.

//

18 Kragar  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:22:52pm

re: #13 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Look at the Left chuckle and guffaw in mortal terror.

19 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:22:58pm

re: #13 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Yeah, as much of a "panic" as I was when Caribou Barbie was unleashed upon us. I might need some oxygen soon from all the laughing I've been doing.

20 AK-47%  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:23:28pm

Interesting take from Steve Kornacki:

"But even if Ryan’s budget proves an albatross for Romney and the GOP ticket goes down, it’s not hard to see conservatives rationalizing away the defeat: The problem was Romney couldn’t sell the message – that’s why the next time we need Ryan at the top of the ticket! They’ve believed for a few years now that Ryan-ism should be their party’s future, and today’s announcement is a major step toward making it so."

21 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:23:39pm

re: #14 HappyWarrior

That one bill about hospitals being allowed to deny abortions to a woman even if her life is in charge is simply horrifying and honestly should be even to the most strident opponent of legal abortion. Really goes to show you that life is not the issue to people like Ryan. It's telling women what they can and cannot do with their bodies.

Zygotes are more human than the women who carry them. That's before they know whether it's a male or female zygote.

22 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:24:03pm

OT Two strong earthquakes in northwest Iran. Here is my page. [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

24 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:24:26pm

re: #20 Expand Your Ground

Interesting take from Steve Kornacki:

"But even if Ryan’s budget proves an albatross for Romney and the GOP ticket goes down, it’s not hard to see conservatives rationalizing away the defeat: The problem was Romney couldn’t sell the message – that’s why the next time we need Ryan at the top of the ticket! They’ve believed for a few years now that Ryan-ism should be their party’s future, and today’s announcement is a major step toward making it so."

Shades of Palin in 2008 there. "If only the ticket had been reversed!"

25 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:24:31pm

re: #8 Gus

What war on women?

"War" implies both sides have an equal chance of winning. Considering the shitload of bills not only proposed, but passed, by GOP legislatures in the past year, I'd say it's pretty clear who's "winning."

26 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:25:16pm

re: #17 Gus

Yep. Panic.

//

RWNJs are continually in attack mode. Somehow I doubt they'll appreciate the same logic applied in the reverse direction.

27 Kragar  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:25:51pm

"BEHOLD! THE DOOM OF THE LEFT!"
"Is it hiding behind Paul Ryan?"

28 Gus  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:27:02pm

Panic!

29 erik_t  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:27:10pm

re: #27 Kragar

"BEHOLD! THE DOOM OF THE LEFT!"
"Is it hiding behind Paul Ryan?"

Someday, all this will be yours!
What, the curtains?
NO NOT THE CURTAINS.

30 jaunte  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:27:46pm
31 allegro  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:28:18pm

re: #13 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Panic? Like this?

Image: mood_of_campaign.jpg

32 Aye Pod  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:28:37pm

re: #30 jaunte

Why does William Saletan hate women?

And science.

33 jaunte  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:29:35pm

re: #32 Aye Pod

Saletan:

Ryan may not help Romney win this election. For the reasons given above, he may actually hurt the ticket. And there’s a good argument to be made—which Democrats surely will make—that Ryan’s emphasis on austerity is a bad fit for a weak economy. But Ryan’s ideas are important for the future. As the recovery proceeds, we’ll move out of a context in which stimulus made sense, and toward a context in which reining in deficits and debt becomes more essential. We’ll need more attention to those traditional Republican principles. We’ll need more voters, especially young voters, who value those principles. We’ll need a generation that thinks like Paul Ryan.

I DON'T THINK SO.

34 Gus  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:29:57pm

I haz panic because of Paul Ryan!

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35 dragonath  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:30:46pm

But social issues are a distraction.

You know, "stupid stuff".

//

36 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:31:12pm

I really am trying to be objective. But I don't see any group that Ryan's going to help Romney win or cut into Obama's support with. Hell, as already documented, his record on women's issue may even increase the gap Romney has with Obama with women voters and elderly voters aren't going to like Ryan one bit and psst Mitt they vote and they vote in big numbers. He's a fairly young guy but contrary to belief young voters don't vote for young candidates simply because they're young. I don't relate to Paul Ryan and I certainly don't see him as a cool big brother which what many young voters were said to have felt about Kennedy in 1960 who was interestingly enough Ryan's age. Ryan may help Romney with his base's turnout but his budget will also turnout voters against him too.

37 Aye Pod  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:31:23pm

re: #33 jaunte

Saletan:

I DON'T THINK SO.

The overton window - how DOES it work?

38 b_sharp  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:31:56pm

Ryan gives Romney cred with the religious right and the Tea Party, support that was likely grudgingly given before.

39 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:32:24pm

re: #33 jaunte

Saletan:

I DON'T THINK SO.

Saletan's acting like Paul's ideas are new ones. It's more of the same crap that we've seen for years from the GOP. It's just being sold by a young, smiling face rather than an angry old guy.

40 allegro  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:32:48pm

re: #38 b_sharp

Ryan gives Romney cred with the religious right and the Tea Party, support that was likely grudgingly given before.

But... But... Romney isn't running on Ryan's ideas. Can't talk about those, remember?

41 Gus  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:33:32pm

re: #40 allegro

But... But... Romney isn't running on Ryan's ideas. Can't talk about those, remember?

Yep. Here's another one...

42 engineer cat  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:33:36pm

this should put to rest the obama campaign's accusations that romney is too partial to the elderly and poor

also, it helps romney shift the focus off the economy

43 Gus  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:34:33pm

And another...

44 engineer cat  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:34:46pm

They're in a panic now

you're panic alright

45 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:35:29pm

There's something fishy about a rabidly pro-life Catholic couple that has only three children after 12 or 13 years of marriage.

46 aagcobb  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:35:34pm

re: #1 HappyWarrior

I’ll go out on a limb and predict that having Ryan on the ticket isn’t going to improve Romney’s sky-high unfavorable rating among women voters.
In fact, it may make it worse. Romney's got a problem with women voters. Paulie here isn't going to help him there.

C'mon, Ryan's young and handsome; the gals are going to love him!/

47 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:37:00pm

re: #45 wrenchwench

There's something fishy about a rabidly pro-life Catholic couple that has only three children after 12 or 13 years of marriage.

Either he touches his wife once in a blue moon or he's not as "pro-life" as he sells himself.

48 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:38:03pm

re: #47 Targetpractice

Or his sperm are swimming somewhere else.

49 b_sharp  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:38:11pm

re: #40 allegro

But... But... Romney isn't running on Ryan's ideas. Can't talk about those, remember?

From what I can see, running mates are chosen to fill in gaps in the candidates popular appeal. The GOP have no scruples and will do whatever is necessary to be elected because they arrogantly believe they occupy the moral heights. Conservatives have a better intuitive grasp of how to manipulate emotions knowing that most people vote based on emotion.

50 andres  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:38:34pm

re: #12 Aye Pod

Full Metal Wingnut

It ought to be "Full Glass Wingnut".

And even then, I'm not so sure... Glass seems much more durable under high pressures.

51 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:38:40pm

re: #47 Targetpractice

Either he touches his wife once in a blue moon or he's not as "pro-life" as he sells himself.

I hope her health is OK. Maybe she had to have a hysterectomy. That's very common among pro-life women, I hear.

52 allegro  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:38:40pm

A lesson the wingnuts may want to pay attention to... or not:

This week in the War on Women: This is what victory looks like

In February, Susan G. Komen for the Cure demanded that we make a choice: the pink stuff or Planned Parenthood. Komen had caved to political pressure from the anti-choice movement that demanded Komen stop its funding of breast cancer screening and education at Planned Parenthood. ..Komen decided that the war on Planned Parenthood—one of the principal goals of the Republican Party—was more important than providing health care for women.

...

Within the week, Karen Handel had resigned. But the damage done to Komen's brand, and the devastation within the organization, was far from over. Executives and board members kept resigning, the charity was struggling to raise money and was even forced to cancel events, and a "Komen insider" told Huffington Post that "employee morale is in the toilet," and that Nancy Brinker was "in complete meltdown [...] People want her to resign but she won't."

This week, the bloodbath continued Komen President Liz Thompson announced her resignation, two more members of the board resigned, and as for Nancy "in complete meltdown" Brinker—well, she will "shift to a new management role as chair of the Komen Board Executive Commiittee when the search for a new senior executive is finished."

Susan G. Komen for the Cure demanded that women make a choice. And women made it. And the answer could not be clearer: If you force women to choose between Planned Parenthood and something else, that something else will lose every time. Women and their allies stood up and said no—hell no—and sent a strong message to Komen and to anyone else who tries to come between us and the nation's biggest provider of our health care.

53 Gus  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:39:02pm

Romney running away from the Ryan budget while Paul Ryan tries to distance himself from Ayn Rand. Of course Ayn Rand would give Ryan the finger over his stance on abortion rights.

54 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:40:17pm

re: #53 Gus

Romney running away from the Ryan budge while Paul Ryan tries to distance himself from Ayn Rand. Of course Ayn Rand would give Ryan the finger over his stance on abortion rights.

Rand would give the GOP the finger as a whole for basing the bulk of their social views on their religious beliefs.

55 jvic  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:40:42pm

Secular conservative here.

Bush and Obama have kicked budgetary issues down a road that leads to a cliff. Ryan has seemed willing to confront that fact.

I hadn't realized that his "straight-talking fearlessness" might distract from a social agenda that is unacceptable to the bulk of the country.

56 dragonath  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:41:09pm

Clearly, the Romney campaign is going for the level of human interpersonality espoused by the comic character Mark Trail.

57 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:41:16pm

Out purely on a speculative limb here, but maybe the choice of Ryan as VP isn't just about the Magical Unicorn Fart Budget Plan. Maybe the hard anti-choice position is a feature.

58 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:41:28pm

I mean if you're going to choose the guy who got into the spotlight and surely your vetting list because of his budget, don't be a passive aggressive wimp and run from it. Really, I would suspect behind the smiles and outside appearance of being thrilled to be chosen, Ryan must be a little upset that Romney's distancing himself from Ryan's big issue. That could lead to conflict as the campaign goes on. Dare I say it, Ryan may be going rogue like someone else we knew, and the top candidate isn't going to like that.

59 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:41:52pm

re: #55 jvic

Secular conservative here.

Bush and Obama have kicked budgetary issues down a road that leads to a cliff. Ryan has seemed willing to confront that fact.

I hadn't realized that his "straight-talking fearlessness" might distract from a social agenda that is unacceptable to the bulk of the country.

How is Ryan "willing to confront that fact"? What in his "Plan" showed a willingness to confront anything but the idea that this country has a moral obligation to the least fortunate?

60 jaunte  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:42:54pm
61 aagcobb  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:45:31pm

re: #55 jvic

Secular conservative here.

Bush and Obama have kicked budgetary issues down a road that leads to a cliff. Ryan has seemed willing to confront that fact.

I hadn't realized that his "straight-talking fearlessness" might distract from a social agenda that is unacceptable to the bulk of the country.

Maybe he "seemed willing", but he wasn't. Massive tax cuts for the rich and supply-side fantasies about the miracles of economic growth it would create is a far cry from confronting facts.

62 allegro  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:45:32pm

re: #55 jvic

Secular conservative here.

Bush and Obama have kicked budgetary issues down a road that leads to a cliff. Ryan has seemed willing to confront that fact.

Have you paid attention to the fact that it is Congress that is responsible for budgetary matters and that the Republican-led House has preferred to hold our country hostage resulting in downgrading its "full faith and credit" rather than pass any sensible bill?

I hadn't realized that his "straight-talking fearlessness" might distract from a social agenda that is unacceptable to the bulk of the country.

Yes, the social agenda of Romney/Ryan and the GOP is unacceptable to the bulk of the country. It has been the focus of the party for quite some time and what the Republican-led House has spent almost the entirety of its time on.

63 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:45:44pm

re: #59 Targetpractice

How is Ryan "willing to confront that fact"? What in his "Plan" showed a willingness to confront anything but the idea that this country has a moral obligation to the least fortunate?

Or better yet why did he vote for the Bush items that contributed to the debt. He claims now he did so with reluctance but that's awfully convenient now that he's playing Mr. Deficit Hawk. I don't buy it. Ryan was just as much as the problem as anyone past or present but he decided to get selective on the debt once Obama became president. Plus, he basically derided the generals who supported the Pentagon budget cuts. If Paul Ryan wants to be taken seriously on deficit issues, he needs to be honest about the DoD budget and not only be focused on entitlement programs.

64 jaunte  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:45:50pm

re: #59 Targetpractice

How is Ryan "willing to confront that fact"? What in his "Plan" showed a willingness to confront anything but the idea that this country has a moral obligation to the least fortunate?

Ayn Rand:

"The disciple of causation faces life without inexplicable chains, unchosen burdens, impossible demands or supernatural threats. His metaphysical attitude and guiding moral principle can best be summed up by an old Spanish proverb: “God said: ‘Take what you want and pay for it.'"

65 b_sharp  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:46:48pm

re: #55 jvic

Secular conservative here.

Bush and Obama have kicked budgetary issues down a road that leads to a cliff. Ryan has seemed willing to confront that fact.

I hadn't realized that his "straight-talking fearlessness" might distract from a social agenda that is unacceptable to the bulk of the country.

Ryan looks willing to cut his leg off because he has gout.

Taking your economic outlook from a philosophy that ignores human psychology, cultural evolution, European history, and the success of countries culturally opposite to that philosophy, as Ryan has done, is a dangerous proposition.

Economies are now global, some of the fortunes of a country are tied up with how the rest of the world does.

66 engineer cat  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:47:47pm

fearlessness

in this context, it appears to mean the courage to embrace and promote extremely unpopular policy proposals based on easily disproved lies

67 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:48:27pm

re: #55 jvic

Secular conservative here.

Bush and Obama have kicked budgetary issues down a road that leads to a cliff. Ryan has seemed willing to confront that fact.

I hadn't realized that his "straight-talking fearlessness" might distract from a social agenda that is unacceptable to the bulk of the country.

Sorry to disappoint, but Ryan's fiscal sense is a bunch of vapor. His budget, which supposedly marks him as a major wonk, doesn't tally...and it makes unsupportable assumptions.

He's not serious, he is kicking the can down the road.

68 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:49:09pm

re: #66 engineer cat

fearlessness

in this context, it appears to mean the courage to embrace and promote extremely unpopular policy proposals based on easily disproved lies

With the knowledge that if they don't pass, you can just fool the rubes back home to sending you to Congress for another stretch.

69 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:49:29pm

Pretty interesting that Reagan's budget director has said that Ryan's plan is a load of shit in kinder words of course. Really, I can't take this guy seriously because he's only focused on entitlement cuts and doesn't seem ready to confront the fact that it will make life difficult for a lot of Americans. Instead, Mr. Ryan tells us that his plan is based off of his interpretation of Catholic teachings- what kind of Mass he went to as a child I don't know. Cutting mostly only entitlement programs is a form of class warfare.

70 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:50:43pm

The "Ryan Plan" isn't a budget, it's a bunch of vague ideas that have offered to us with the "promise" that it will all be fleshed out once passed. Except the dismantling of Medicare and transformation to a voucher system, that's pretty much set in stone.

71 engineer cat  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:51:23pm

re: #55 jvic

Secular conservative here.

Bush and Obama have kicked budgetary issues down a road that leads to a cliff. Ryan has seemed willing to confront that fact.

paul ryan is lying about the fiscal health of social security and medicare

there are serious problems there, but ryan lies about them in order to pretend that either you accept his plan to destroy them or else they will disappear altogether in a few years

it ain't true

72 Kragar  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:51:39pm

Romney: Ryan's budget is off the table

Within minutes of physically embracing his new running mate Paul Ryan on a Norfolk, Va., stage, Mitt Romney was distancing himself from Ryan’s controversial House budget proposal.

From Romney campaign talking points, distributed to reporters after Romney’s first appearance with his VP pick (emphasis added):

• Gov. Romney applauds Paul Ryan for going in the right direction with his budget, and as president he will be putting together his own plan for cutting the deficit and putting the budget on a path to balance.

• Romney’s administration will go through the budget line by line and ask two questions: Can we afford it? And, if not, should we borrow money from China to pay for it?

• Mitt Romney will start with the easiest cut of all: Obamacare, a trillion-dollar entitlement we don’t want and can’t afford.

73 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:53:32pm

re: #72 Kragar

Romney: Ryan's budget is off the table

Again it has to be asked. Why choose him if you're not going to run with his plan? This is typical Romney campaign bullshit and I think doing this will upset his supporters more than it will his detractors.

74 engineer cat  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:53:56pm

this choice will focus the attention of the entire country on the republican party's lies about social security and medicare

75 Lidane  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:54:17pm

re: #12 Aye Pod

Full Metal Wingnut

76 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:55:03pm

re: #72 Kragar

Romney: Ryan's budget is off the table

So Ryan might as well have been replaced by a mannequin, for all the reality that there is to picking him. He's an empty shell, with no accomplishments to his name, whose name is apparently all he brings to the ticket.

Congrats, Willard, you've successfully shown just how whipped you are.

77 b_sharp  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:55:23pm

re: #69 HappyWarrior

Pretty interesting that Reagan's budget director has said that Ryan's plan is a load of shit in kinder words of course. Really, I can't take this guy seriously because he's only focused on entitlement cuts and doesn't seem ready to confront the fact that it will make life difficult for a lot of Americans. Instead, Mr. Ryan tells us that his plan is based off of his interpretation of Catholic teachings- what kind of Mass he went to as a child I don't know. Cutting mostly only entitlement programs is a form of class warfare.

Ayn Rand considered selfishness a virtue and altruism an evil.

78 engineer cat  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:55:39pm

re: #72 Kragar

Romney: Ryan's budget is off the table
Mitt Romney will start with the easiest cut of all: Obamacare, a trillion-dollar entitlement we don’t want and can’t afford.

show your math

79 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:56:08pm

Seriously, the reason the wingnuts love Ryan is his budget and putting his budget off the table is only going to further piss them off. Just how tone-deaf is Romney?

80 Kragar  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:56:13pm

re: #78 engineer cat

show your math

Because shut up.

81 Gus  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:56:41pm

re: #72 Kragar

Romney: Ryan's budget is off the table

Within minutes!

82 Lidane  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:57:10pm

re: #67 The Ghost of a Flea

Sorry to disappoint, but Ryan's fiscal sense is a bunch of vapor. His budget, which supposedly marks him as a major wonk, doesn't tally...and it makes unsupportable assumptions.

He's not serious, he is kicking the can down the road.

Yeah, about 30 years down the road.

Ryan's budget doesn't even try to balance anything for almost three decades. You can't seriously call yourself a fiscal conservative and support that.

83 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:57:12pm

Hey, wait! Ryan does have foreign policy experience!

During his junior year at Miami University, Ryan worked as an intern opening mail for the foreign affairs advisor assigned to Senator Bob Kasten of Wisconsin.

84 Etaoin Shrdlu  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:57:34pm

re: #60 jaunte

Kaiser Health News FAQ: How Paul Ryan Proposes To Change Medicare

People who are bothered by Ryan's anti-contraception stance were not terribly likely to vote Republican anyway. But alienating people old enough to worry about Medicare seems tactically unwise.

85 b_sharp  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:57:38pm

re: #73 HappyWarrior

Again it has to be asked. Why choose him if you're not going to run with his plan? This is typical Romney campaign bullshit and I think doing this will upset his supporters more than it will his detractors.

Optics.

Romney has a problem with the Christian Right because he's a Mormon, and he has a problem with the extreme Tea Party because of his previous moderate economic stance.

86 erik_t  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:57:49pm
87 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:57:59pm

re: #82 Lidane

Yeah, about 30 years down the road.

Ryan's budget doesn't even try to balance anything for almost three decades. You can't seriously call yourself a fiscal conservative and support that.

He does, and the wingnuts have. Why? Because it fucks over the poor, and they're convinced that that doesn't apply to them.

88 erik_t  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:58:35pm

re: #85 b_sharp

Romney has a problem with the Christian Right because he's a Mormon

So he picks... a damned dirty Papist.

Derp.

89 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 12:58:42pm

re: #79 Targetpractice

Seriously, the reason the wingnuts love Ryan is his budget and putting his budget off the table is only going to further piss them off. Just how tone-deaf is Romney?

That's what I was just getting at in my 73. the conservative base is going to and I would agree with them like they're being used. "Hey, here's a guy who thinks like you on the budget and debt." "Yay, thanks Mitt." "But we're not going to talk about his plan because we know it will surely beat us at the polls." "Okay.........."

90 engineer cat  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:00:00pm

re: #80 Kragar

Because shut up.

seriously, this is just like anytime you hear the phrase "unfunded liabilities", usually a very very large dollar figure derived from because shut up

next time you hear "unfunded liability" all you have to do to stop the argument cold is to ask them what an unfunded liability is. particularly the part about exactly how many years of future budget predictions it encompasses

the dittoheads just think it's a term for bad people take my money that sounds like something a smart person would say

91 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:00:33pm

re: #88 erik_t

So he picks... a damned dirty Papist.

Derp.

I dunno about the Catholicism being a problem. The fundies seemed to at least publically get over their anti-Catholic prejudices after Roe, they needed allies after all, so dropping the whole you support the anti-Christ was smart to do.

92 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:00:41pm

re: #88 erik_t

So he picks... a damned dirty Papist.

Derp.

Wait for it. Somebody will for-real-real get upsets about that in 3...2...1....

93 Gus  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:02:05pm

re: #91 HappyWarrior

I dunno about the Catholicism being a problem. The fundies seemed to at least publically get over their anti-Catholic prejudices after Roe, they needed allies after all, so dropping the whole you support the anti-Christ was smart to do.

That's changed over the years. Hence look at Santorum's popularity with evangelicals.

94 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:03:49pm

re: #89 HappyWarrior

That's what I was just getting at in my 73. the conservative base is going to and I would agree with them like they're being used. "Hey, here's a guy who thinks like you on the budget and debt." "Yay, thanks Mitt." "But we're not going to talk about his plan because we know it will surely beat us at the polls." "Okay.........."

Romney: "I've picked Paul Ryan, whose invaluable experience and economic ideas will help this country."

Wingnuts: "Awesome! Austerity, here we come!!"

Romney: "But I'm only running with Ryan, his ideas aren't part of the package."

Wingnuts: "HUH?!"

95 engineer cat  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:04:59pm

re: #91 HappyWarrior

I dunno about the Catholicism being a problem. The fundies seemed to at least publically get over their anti-Catholic prejudices after Roe, they needed allies after all, so dropping the whole you support the anti-Christ was smart to do.

fundies have been prepped with the notion that catholic == evangelical conservatives + a pope

this makes them wonder why latinos don't automatically vote republican, but they're used to cognitive dissonance

96 jaunte  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:05:48pm
97 engineer cat  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:06:09pm

re: #94 Targetpractice

Romney: "I've picked Paul Ryan, whose invaluable experience and economic ideas will help this country."

Wingnuts: "Awesome! Austerity, here we come!!"

Romney: "But I'm only running with Ryan, his ideas aren't part of the package."

Wingnuts: "HUH?!"

i don't think they even really know about the ayn rand budget yet...

98 Kragar  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:10:25pm

So if Ryan's ideas are off the table, does that mean the 1% are not going to get an entire undersea city somewhere in the Atlantic?

99 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:11:17pm

re: #94 Targetpractice

Romney: "I've picked Paul Ryan, whose invaluable experience and economic ideas will help this country."

Wingnuts: "Awesome! Austerity, here we come!!"

Romney: "But I'm only running with Ryan, his ideas aren't part of the package."

Wingnuts: "HUH?!"

That's really how it comes across. I mean if Romney rejects the Paul plan, why run with its architect. Is he really so politically tone deaf to not realize that even if he plays this game, he will still get linked to it. He really is a hard to figure out person at times. Sometimes, you wonder if he's really that intelligent. If he wanted to distance himself from the Ryan plan, he should have picked someone like Pawlenty or Portman. But I guess he thinks the Ryan name will be enough to get conservatives enthusiastic for him even as he runs from the guy's claim to fame and reason for being chosen.

100 JamesWI  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:11:58pm

re: #46 aagcobb

C'mon, Ryan's young and handsome; the gals are going to love him!/

Looking around Hotair and Freep last night, I actually saw plenty of people making similar argument......"He's young, handsome, and he has a cute family! Obviously he's going to cut into Obama's support!"

101 jaunte  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:11:59pm

As Conservative as Michele Bachmann

Nate Silver digs into Rep. Paul Ryan's (R-WI) congressional voting record and notes "the statistical system DW-Nominate evaluates him as being roughly as conservative as Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-MN), the controversial congresswoman of Minnesota."

"By this measure, in fact, which rates members of the House and Senate throughout different time periods on a common ideology scale, Mr. Ryan is the most conservative Republican member of Congress to be picked for the vice presidential slot since at least 1900.

102 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:13:19pm

re: #100 JamesWI

Looking around Hotair and Freep last night, I actually saw plenty of people making similar argument......"He's young, handsome, and he has a cute family! Obviously he's going to cut into Obama's support!"

They said the same about Palin except substitute the pronoun and adjective for her personal appearance. I'm sure he has a nice family, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on that even though the older Palin daughters turned out to be as nasty as mom.

103 Gus  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:14:10pm

I'm Mitt Romney, and I approve this message -- that is until I change my mind which can happen any minute now.

104 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:14:20pm

re: #101 jaunte

As Conservative as Michele Bachmann

Watch the Dems run with this. Obama was tagged as the most liberal nominee the Dems had since McGovern using his congressional record. Ryan will get the same treatment.

105 allegro  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:14:31pm

re: #99 HappyWarrior

But I guess he thinks the Ryan name will be enough to get conservatives enthusiastic for him even as he runs from the guy's claim to fame and reason for being chosen.

And what are his odds of getting away with that?

Image: fat_chance_of_that.jpg

106 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:15:13pm

re: #15 The Ghost of a Flea

It's not a war: it's helping women understand that they're physically and mentally weak and incapable of moral agency without a sufficiently masculine government system assisting them in making the right choice.

It's not a choice or a child: it's a soul that should be properly indoctrinated in the syncretic theology/political philosophy of modern Christian conservatism, preferably after being taken away from its whore mother and passed on to a proper, God-fearing, child-beating family where the patriarch reigns unquestioned.

Addendum:

You can't be at war with your chattel?

107 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:15:25pm

re: #105 allegro

And what are his odds of getting away with that?

Image: fat_chance_of_that.jpg

I dunno. We got what a couple weeks to the RNC? Who knows what happens there if Mitt is still playing a passive aggressive game.

108 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:15:52pm

re: #106 SanFranciscoZionist

You can't be at war with your chattel?

[Embedded content]

Wait, this version is better.

109 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:15:55pm
110 God of Binders with Women  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:16:52pm

Mitt Romney is honestly the worst Presidential candidate of my forty-one years on this planet Earth. He's an awkward, stiff, robotic drone; incapable of connecting with anyone. He constantly looks uncomfortable. When he's in an interview and he's holding hands with his wife, it looks strange.

Somewhere in Doggie Heaven, Seamus is looking down on Willard saying "Karma's a bitch, huh?"

111 b_sharp  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:17:02pm

1. Selfish people will always act in their best interest.
2. Acting in their best interest will determine the success of businesses.
3. Racist attitudes in a company will doom it through people walking away with their money.
4. Absence of regulations will promote small business and job growth.
5. Lawsuits (or threat of lawsuit) will force companies to ensure safety for their customers and employees.

Is this about right for Ayn Rand/Ron Paul?

112 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:17:10pm

re: #109 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Well you're half right, it was the most exciting thing ever to happen in Norfolk at 9 AM on August 13th, 2012.

113 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:18:08pm

Obama's campaign is going to HAMMER the Ryan "budget"

I can't wait for the new ads.

114 spiderx  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:18:42pm

this is why Ryan was a bad pick. Romney thinks Ryan will solidify his conservative base. But that base is already solidified by their irrational hatred of President Obama. So this VP pick is redundant. Romney would have been better off picking a VP that appeals to moderates and independents.

This is a gift to the Obama campaign. Now they run against Ryan's radicalism and make the election a choice between a real moderate- Obama vs radical conservatism.

115 b_sharp  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:19:33pm

re: #109 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

No country artists running around naked there?

116 allegro  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:19:49pm

re: #113 Stanley Sea

Obama's campaign is going to HAMMER the Ryan "budget"

I can't wait for the new ads.

117 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:20:04pm

I pointed this out downstairs but what makes this baffling to me even as they run away from Ryan's plan is that the argument that was made about ACA is "It's unpopular, it needs repealed." Even at its height of unpopularity when people thought it was unconstitutional, ACA was more popular than Ryan's plan ever was. You can't argue that ACA was shoved down our throats unwillingly while you have a guy with a plan that is even more unpopular.

118 b_sharp  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:20:38pm

re: #111 b_sharp

1. Selfish people will always act in their best interest.
2. Acting in their best interest will determine the success of businesses.
3. Racist attitudes in a company will doom it through people walking away with their money.
4. Absence of regulations will promote small business and job growth.
5. Lawsuits (or threat of lawsuit) will force companies to ensure safety for their customers and employees.

Is this about right for Ayn Rand/Ron Paul?

Anybody able to add anything to this?

119 JamesWI  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:21:06pm

So, in picking Ryan, he opens himself up to all the devastating attacks on the Ryan Budget......and by backing away from the Budget, he leaves those attacks virtually unanswered.

Worst. Campaign. Ever.

120 God of Binders with Women  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:21:44pm

A bottle of Grey Goose and a laptop produces this:

121 engineer cat  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:21:49pm

His father’s death provided Ryan with Social Security benefits until his 18th birthday, which he used to pay for his education at Miami University of Ohio

i'm sure it will be outrageous and unacceptable for anybody to bring this up

122 jaunte  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:22:11pm

re: #111 b_sharp

Except for the lawsuit part. Tort reform and free market choices will usher in a new golden age.

123 allegro  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:23:13pm

re: #121 engineer cat

His father’s death provided Ryan with Social Security benefits until his 18th birthday, which he used to pay for his education at Miami University of Ohio

i'm sure it will be outrageous and unacceptable for anybody to bring this up

I think a better question is how did he become a multi-millionaire after spending his entire adult life in government "public service"?

124 b_sharp  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:23:13pm

re: #120 Summer Lovin' Torture Party

A bottle of Grey Goose and a laptop produces this:

[Embedded content]

I'd like to see her definition of American.

125 dragonath  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:23:28pm
Nate Silver digs into Rep. Paul Ryan's (R-WI) congressional voting record and notes "the statistical system DW-Nominate evaluates him as being roughly as conservative as Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-MN), the controversial congresswoman of Minnesota."

"By this measure, in fact, which rates members of the House and Senate throughout different time periods on a common ideology scale, Mr. Ryan is the most conservative Republican member of Congress to be picked for the vice presidential slot since at least 1900. He is also more conservative than any Democratic nominee was liberal, meaning that is is the furthest from the center. (The statistic does not provide scores for governors and other vice presidential nominees who never served in Congress.)"

126 erik_t  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:23:31pm

One of these things is not like the other,one of these things just doesn't belong.

127 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:23:47pm

re: #116 allegro

[Embedded content]

whoop!

128 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:24:03pm

re: #121 engineer cat

His father’s death provided Ryan with Social Security benefits until his 18th birthday, which he used to pay for his education at Miami University of Ohio

i'm sure it will be outrageous and unacceptable for anybody to bring this up

I wouldn't bring it up but it does show what bothers me about many conservatives. They'll rail against big government to get elected but it seems they have no problem using it to help them. Hell, Romney even though he didn't need federal money for his college education used and even bragged about getting it for the Olympics. In the past, you had people in the Republican Party who perhaps didn't see government as the answer but didn't blame it for everything wrong with American life. That's the Republican party I think we've lost in the past 30 years.

129 engineer cat  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:24:20pm

freeper unitentional humor prize of the day:

This same “MoveOn” folks FORGET that the values of the “Tea Party” are heild by most if not a majority of Americans. :)

sieg!

130 b_sharp  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:24:30pm

re: #122 jaunte

Except for the lawsuit part. Tort reform and free market choices will usher in a new golden age.

From what I get from my brother, a new Ron Paul convert, the lawsuit bit is part of Paul's logic.

131 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:25:01pm

re: #123 allegro

I think a better question is how did he become a multi-millionaire after spending his entire adult life in government "public service"?

See his tax returns? Off the table.

132 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:25:23pm

re: #124 b_sharp

I'd like to see her definition of American.

It involves your willingness to throw rocks at her opponents.

133 Gus  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:25:31pm

re: #124 b_sharp

I'd like to see her definition of American.

[Godwin]

134 God of Binders with Women  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:25:55pm
135 jaunte  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:26:09pm

re: #130 b_sharp

Maybe so. At least here in Texas, part of the conservative prescription for a better world always seems to be limiting legal redress in one way or another.

136 b_sharp  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:30:50pm

re: #135 jaunte

Maybe so. At least here in Texas, part of the conservative prescription for a better world always seems to be limiting legal redress in one way or another.

With the assumption reform will lower insurance costs?

137 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:31:14pm

Not that I question Nate Silver's knowledge but I'm surprised to see John Nance Garner rated as the most liberal Democratic VP since 1900. From the little I know about Garner he was an old time Texas Democrat.

138 allegro  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:31:16pm

re: #135 jaunte

Maybe so. At least here in Texas, part of the conservative prescription for a better world always seems to be limiting legal redress in one way or another.

At least against corporate interests. I think it's pretty much smooth sailing from the other direction.

139 engineer cat  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:31:54pm

re: #136 b_sharp

With the assumption reform will lower insurance costs?

i think it's more like 'i hates them goldurned lawyers'

140 Gus  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:32:27pm
141 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:32:28pm

re: #86 erik_t

UTTINI!

Uncle Owen! This rover unit has a bad motivator, look!

142 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:33:30pm

re: #109 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

I'd have to disagree, except most of the exciting things that happen in Nofolk at 9am on a Saturday usually are the subject of crime dramas.

143 engineer cat  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:33:33pm

congressman ayn rand, uh, i mean ryan - isn't it true that under your budget plan you would never have been able to afford to go to college?

144 Gus  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:35:25pm

bbl

145 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:36:38pm

GOP Is Psyched That Pro-Life Extremist Paul Ryan’s On Romney Ticket

The reason high-profile Republicans are tripping over themselves is this: Paul Ryan is a crazy person. Since 1999, The National Right to Life Committee has scored his voting record 100%. He supports the Sanctity of Human Life Act, which declares that life begins with fertilization, and opposes abortion even in the cases of incest and rape. essay written by Ryan, the Daily Beast points out, he mentions neither the word "mother" or "woman" once. When he ran for Congress in 1998, his pro-life stance was a major platform: he called a woman's right to choose an amoral exercise of "arbitrary will." Oh, and he also plans to allow those organizations that aren't quite church-affiliated to abstain from providing free contraception as part of female employee's health care, which means if the Romney/Ryan ticket wins, these assholes get a whole lot of wiggle room.

146 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:40:25pm

re: #145 The Ghost of a Flea

GOP Is Psyched That Pro-Life Extremist Paul Ryan’s On Romney Ticket

Great another culture warrior posing as someone only concerned with the economy. I've seen this before.

147 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:43:03pm

re: #146 HappyWarrior

Great another culture warrior posing as someone only concerned with the economy. I've seen this before.

"Only concerned about the economy" is camoflauge even when it comes to fiscal policy.

148 allegro  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:43:09pm

re: #145 The Ghost of a Flea

...also plans to allow those organizations that aren't quite church-affiliated to abstain from providing free contraception as part of female employee's health care,...

Just a point of contention... there is nothing "free" about a woman employee's contraception. In order to get that contraception without a co-pay, she must be insured whether by premiums she pays for in full, in part, or as a part of her compensation package. It is fully paid for by those costly premiums. The reason insurance companies have no problem with this arrangement is because it's a whole lot less costly for them to pick up the co-pay than to pay for a pregnancy.

149 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:44:38pm

re: #147 The Ghost of a Flea

"Only concerned about the economy" is camoflauge even when it comes to fiscal policy.

Remember what DeMint said- Can't be a fiscal conservative without being a social conservative. That's not true in the grand scheme of things but it is if you want to get anywhere in today's Republican Party. Are there any prominent Republican elected officials who are social liberals or even moderates. Let me phrase that better. Any social moderate or liberal Republicans who are being touted as the future of the party. We hear about Rubio, Paul II, etc, but they're just as socially conservative as the others and in some cases even more so.

150 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:44:39pm
151 b_sharp  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:45:26pm
1. Selfish people will always act in their best interest.
2. Acting in their best interest will determine the success of businesses.
3. Racist attitudes in a company will doom it through people walking away with their money.
4. Absence of regulations will promote small business and job growth.
5. Lawsuits (or threat of lawsuit) will force companies to ensure safety for their customers and employees.
6. Private property rights will stop pollution.
152 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:45:34pm

re: #150 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

I don't think that's the bump they were looking for and it's only going to increase as the American people find out more about Paul Ryan and his plan, and that the Romney team is hiding from it.

153 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:45:38pm

re: #150 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Only vote that counts is on Election Day!

154 jvic  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:46:03pm

re: #55 jvic

Secular conservative here.

Bush and Obama have kicked budgetary issues down a road that leads to a cliff. Ryan has seemed willing to confront that fact.

I hadn't realized that his "straight-talking fearlessness" might distract from a social agenda that is unacceptable to the bulk of the country.

I updinged the responses with which I would engage if I had time.

This particular secular conservative conscientiously tries to assess competence, ideology notwithstanding. I voted for Bill Clinton and Barack Obama.

Guess my attitude after the above meeting-the-other-side-halfway post elicited only disagreement, and no acknowledgement of common ground.

155 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:48:45pm

re: #154 jvic

I updinged the responses with which I would engage if I had time.

This particular secular conservative conscientiously tries to assess competence, ideology notwithstanding. I voted for Bill Clinton and Barack Obama.

Guess my attitude after the above meeting-the-other-side-halfway post elicited only disagreement, and no acknowledgement of common ground.

Ryan is incompetent in the extreme, a partisan politician to the last. There is no "common ground" between he and I and to act like there is is to be dishonest.

156 Etaoin Shrdlu  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:49:02pm

re: #145 The Ghost of a Flea

GOP Is Psyched That Pro-Life Extremist Paul Ryan’s On Romney Ticket

he called a woman's right to choose an amoral exercise of "arbitrary will."

If he's a Randian, shouldn't he consider that a good thing?

157 b_sharp  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:49:07pm

re: #154 jvic

I updinged the responses with which I would engage if I had time.

This particular secular conservative conscientiously tries to assess competence, ideology notwithstanding. I voted for Bill Clinton and Barack Obama.

Guess my attitude after the above meeting-the-other-side-halfway post elicited only disagreement, and no acknowledgement of common ground.

Expand what you are saying. Your post leaves too much for us to assume.

158 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:49:59pm

re: #156 Etaoin Shrdlu

If he's a Randian, shouldn't he consider that a good thing?

He doesn't actually know or understand her philosophy. I think the only thing he took out of Ayn Rand's philosophy was "It's okay to be a greedy douche when it comes to those less off than me."

159 erik_t  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:50:30pm

re: #154 jvic

I updinged the responses with which I would engage if I had time.

This particular secular conservative conscientiously tries to assess competence, ideology notwithstanding. I voted for Bill Clinton and Barack Obama.

Guess my attitude after the above meeting-the-other-side-halfway post elicited only disagreement, and no acknowledgement of common ground.

There's no virtue to common ground with insane extremists; no value to being halfway between rational discourse and shit-throwing.

160 SpaceJesus  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:52:04pm

Just checked the numbers, and if the GOP loses Florida, they lose the election. There is no likely scenario where they lose Florida and still carry the electoral votes needed to win.

161 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:52:37pm

re: #154 jvic

I updinged the responses with which I would engage if I had time.

This particular secular conservative conscientiously tries to assess competence, ideology notwithstanding. I voted for Bill Clinton and Barack Obama.

Guess my attitude after the above meeting-the-other-side-halfway post elicited only disagreement, and no acknowledgement of common ground.

Dude, my response to you was not guided by "partisanship."

Ryan's budget does not make sense, read as written.

I'm not sure how "common ground" enters into that. If you're a fiscal conservative, Ryan's budget still makes no sense.

162 dragonath  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:53:27pm

re: #55 jvic

Secular conservative here.

Bush and Obama have kicked budgetary issues down a road that leads to a cliff. Ryan has seemed willing to confront that fact.

I hadn't realized that his "straight-talking fearlessness" might distract from a social agenda that is unacceptable to the bulk of the country.

This post betrays your biases. If a "straight talking fearlessness" is what you are looking for, then why are social issues off the table? Because Ryan's economic plans are, frankly, unacceptable to the bulk of the country.

163 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:53:32pm

re: #160 SpaceJesus

Just checked the numbers, and if the GOP loses Florida, they lose the election. There is no likely scenario where they lose Florida and still carry the electoral votes needed to win.

And even optimistic polls in the last week showed Obama with a good lead in Florida. Putting Wisconsin into play, as a Ryan pick might possibly do, is useless because it's still a 19 point deficit to make up. And the danger of putting other states, like Arizona and Nevada, back into play was not worth it.

164 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:54:53pm

I'd gladly try to find common ground with him but it's hard to do so when he's hellbent on cutting programs that help alot of people while ignoring other problems some of which his votes led to. Plus, he tries to sell himself as a supporter of individual rights and liberty even while he wants a woman to have no right under any circumstance to choose or his support of an amendment to prohibit gay people from marrying on a federal level. McCain to his credit opposed such a thing. It's hard to find common ground with a guy who observes in the middle of February and being from a state like Wisconsin no less that people are skeptical about global warming because of snow. What does he think scientists are talking about when they talk about climate change. Does he expect winter in Wisconsin to suddenly become summer in Arizona? It's hard to give someone a chance who refuses to be rational.

165 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:55:02pm

Ryan's making Ayn Rand required reading for his office staff should be an OSHA violation.

166 SpaceJesus  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:55:31pm

re: #163 Targetpractice

Nevada was already in play. AZ might be a November surprise. You have a very motivated Hispanic vote there this time, and lots of seniors who don't like Ryan.

167 SpaceJesus  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:56:34pm

Oh, and you have a SpaceJesus who is registered to vote in Pima County

168 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:56:43pm

re: #166 SpaceJesus

Nevada was already in play. AZ might be a November surprise. You have a very motivated Hispanic vote there this time, and lots of seniors who don't like Ryan.

Arizona may end up being this year's Indiana. I'm still amazed Obama won there last time. I don't expect him to so again mind you but Arizona may be able to play that role this time. Nevada, I agree, it was already in play due to Mitt's all out efforts to alienate Latinos.

169 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:57:14pm

Anyone know about Ryan's record on immigration? I'm willing to bet it's as "libertarian" and "small government" as his votes on gay rights and abortion rights.

170 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:57:40pm

re: #167 SpaceJesus

Oh, and you have a SpaceJesus who is registered to vote in Pima County

¡Ajua!

171 allegro  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 1:59:31pm

re: #166 SpaceJesus

Nevada was already in play. AZ might be a November surprise. You have a very motivated Hispanic vote there this time, and lots of seniors who don't like Ryan.

Like most of the rest of the population, the GOP is seriously misreading seniors. They assume that they are like them with the "fuck you, I have mine" attitude. They figure that long as they don't mess with today's benefits - something they continually stress - and only trash future programs for people a few years younger that they will continue to have senior support. It isn't working with a lot of seniors who don't want to see this safety net eliminated for their children and grandchildren. Not all are moral cretins.

172 jvic  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 2:00:02pm

re: #155 Targetpractice

Guess my attitude after the above meeting-the-other-side-halfway post elicited only disagreement, and no acknowledgement of common ground.

Ryan is incompetent in the extreme, a partisan politician to the last. There is no "common ground" between he and I and to act like there is is to be dishonest.

Boldface added.

My point is that nobody acknowledged common ground with me. Similar behavior occurs on the Right.

Which is not a good way to win elections, but it's a great way to wreck a country.

173 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 2:00:22pm

re: #169 HappyWarrior

Anyone know about Ryan's record on immigration? I'm willing to bet it's as "libertarian" and "small government" as his votes on gay rights and abortion rights.

Here's his votes from OnTheIssues:

Voted YES on building a fence along the Mexican border. (Sep 2006)
Voted YES on preventing tipping off Mexicans about Minuteman Project. (Jun 2006)
Voted NO on reporting illegal aliens who receive hospital treatment. (May 2004)
Voted YES on extending Immigrant Residency rules. (May 2001)
Rated 0% by FAIR, indicating a voting record loosening immigration. (Dec 2003)
Comprehensive immigration reform without amnesty. (May 2005)
Rated 83% by USBC, indicating a sealed-border stance. (Dec 2006)

174 BongCrodny  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 2:01:26pm

re: #118 b_sharp

Anybody able to add anything to this?

Yes, but only if you pay me first.

175 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 2:01:59pm

re: #171 allegro

Like most of the rest of the population, the GOP is seriously misreading seniors. They assume that they are like them with the "fuck you, I have mine" attitude. They figure that long as they don't mess with today's benefits - something they continually stress - and only trash future programs for people a few years younger that they will continue to have senior support. It isn't working with a lot of seniors who don't want to see this safety net eliminated for their children and grandchildren. Not all are moral cretins.

I imagine that will be why my grandmother and some of her friends will end up voting against Romney. She's never been that big on Obama. Even supported (I don't think she voted since my grandfather was sick) McCain out of spite over him because she was upset about what happened to Clinton but when I brought up that Ryan was the pick today, she was upset. I expect that attitude to be held by many Rust Belt area voters. They may not like or trust Obama that much but they're going to realize that Romney is not the better alternative fast.

176 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 2:02:13pm

Just saw Paul Ryan say "we will unite America".

Pants On Fire

(no, not politifact. Just me)

177 b_sharp  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 2:02:23pm

I admit to some confusion about the logic in all of this.

1. Selfish people will always act in their best interest.

Selfish people will always act in what they believe is in their best interest. They can be convinced actions not in their best interest are in their best interest. Selfish people are more likely to be dishonest.

2. Acting in their best interest will determine the success of businesses.

The companies with the best image will succeed. That image can be built through advertising, contrary to the companies actual actions.

3. Racist attitudes in a company will doom it through people walking away with their money.

Bigotry inherent in portions of the culture will do the opposite.

4. Absence of regulations will promote small business and job growth.

It will also promote large companies buying out smaller companies and forming a monopoly.

5. Lawsuits (or threat of lawsuit) will force companies to ensure safety for their customers and employees.

It will encourage company bean counters to include the cost of settling lawsuits in the price of their goods/services.

6. Private property rights will stop pollution.

Private citizens will be bought out by companies wishing to pollute.

What am I missing?

178 allegro  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 2:02:34pm

re: #172 jvic

Ryan is incompetent in the extreme, a partisan politician to the last. There is no "common ground" between he and I and to act like there is is to be dishonest.

Boldface added.

My point is that nobody acknowledged common ground with me. Similar behavior occurs on the Right.

Which is not a good way to win elections, but it's a great way to wreck a country.

What in your original post was meeting "the other side half-way"? Because you mentioned Bush as a can kicker as well as Obama when it's Congress that is in charge of budgets?

179 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 2:02:53pm

re: #173 Targetpractice

Here's his votes from OnTheIssues:

Okay, thanks.

180 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 2:03:12pm

re: #172 jvic

Boldface added.

My point is that nobody acknowledged common ground with me. Similar behavior occurs on the Right.

Which is not a good way to win elections, but it's a great way to wreck a country.

And my point above is that your characterization of Ryan is incorrect, the man is not "willing to confront" our fiscal problems. His budget ignored them in every way possible, taking a purely partisan approach, and wouldn't even begin to balance the budget for 30 years. Acting as though his decision to screw over the poor shows anything but an adherence to party orthodoxy is not something I can meet halfway.

181 engineer cat  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 2:03:14pm

re: #160 SpaceJesus

Just checked the numbers, and if the GOP loses Florida, they lose the election. There is no likely scenario where they lose Florida and still carry the electoral votes needed to win.

actually, if you look at individual state polling, obama is decisively ahead in the electoral vote, much more so than in national polling numbers

so much so that one writer was moved to tote up the state polling numbers in order to make sense of this discrepancy - what he found was that because of large republican majorities in red states, the sum of all state polls did indeed add up to the margins shown in national polls

182 b_sharp  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 2:05:03pm

re: #174 BongCrodny

Yes, but only if you pay me first.

Meh.

183 jaunte  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 2:05:23pm

re: #180 Targetpractice

His budget ignored them in every way possible, taking a purely partisan approach, and wouldn't even begin to balance the budget for 30 years.

This is going to be used by the GOP as a rationalization that Grandma doesn't need to worry.

184 Only The Lurker Knows  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 2:06:14pm

re: #169 HappyWarrior

Directly from the source.

185 engineer cat  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 2:06:31pm

2. Acting in their best interest will determine the success of businesses.

The companies with the best image will succeed. That image can be built through advertising, contrary to the companies actual actions.

but: microsoft

186 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 2:07:35pm

Thing that is hurting Romney is outside of Indiana, there is no state that went for Obama last time that is pretty much a gimme for him this time. Now, I think ultimately he will win back for the GOP more than just Indiana but it's not going to be easy to do. And as already said, he may have to fight in ground he didn't expect to like Arizona. He can of course win but he needs to cut into Obama's lead in states that have typically been won by past winning Republicans. He hasn't done that and I don't see it getting better unless Obama gets embroiled in a scandal or makes a huge blunder or even more unlikely if Mitt suddenly decides to run a smart campaign.

187 jaunte  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 2:08:34pm
188 engineer cat  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 2:08:50pm

dan quayle
sarah palin
paul rand ryan

there was a time, i recall, that i thought that political campaigns were run by smart people who made very careful, intelligent decisions

189 Sophia77  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 2:09:17pm

The Democrats need to get the facts out on Ryan, pronto, on TV. I think people, average people, will be appalled.

190 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 2:09:39pm

re: #184 Bubblehead II

Directly from the source.

So it sounds like the usual stuff except it seems that he supports a guest worker program.

191 jaunte  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 2:09:48pm

[Link: twitter.com...]

192 jvic  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 2:10:01pm

re: #162 Fred Galt

This post betrays your biases. If a "straight talking fearlessness" is what you are looking for, then why are social issues off the table? Because Ryan's economic plans are, frankly, unacceptable to the bulk of the country.

Jesus Christ on a trampoline, I didn't "betray" my biases; I stated them.

If things continue as they have gone since Y2K, a lot of things that are "frankly, unacceptable to the bulk of the country" may happen.

193 Digital Display  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 2:11:06pm

re: #142 Targetpractice

I'd have to disagree, except most of the exciting things that happen in Nofolk at 9am on a Saturday usually are the subject of crime dramas.

Clears throat
Every time a Navy Ship returns from deployment the city is alive with excitement. By contrast..Today was like a tug boat pulling into port.

194 engineer cat  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 2:11:12pm

re: #192 jvic

Jesus Christ on a trampoline, I didn't "betray" my biases; I stated them.

If things continue as they have gone since Y2K, a lot of things that are "frankly, unacceptable to the bulk of the country" may happen.

you do realize that ryan's description of the fiscal future of social security and medicare are lies - don't you?

195 erik_t  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 2:11:27pm

re: #192 jvic

If things continue as they have gone since Y2K, a lot of things that are "frankly, unacceptable to the bulk of the country" may happen.

You mean like civilization-altering climate change, failing corn crops, stuff like that?

Oops, none of that is real.

196 uncah91  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 2:11:39pm

re: #172 jvic

My point is that nobody acknowledged common ground with me. Similar behavior occurs on the Right.

Which is not a good way to win elections, but it's a great way to wreck a country.

Here is some common ground. We need to address the deficit in the medium term, once the economy gets much closer to full employment.

Here is where I disagree with you and Ryan, more tax cuts cannot be part of that equation. Because of the insistence on more tax cuts, the Ryan budget actually enlarges the deficit.

197 allegro  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 2:11:54pm

re: #192 jvic

Jesus Christ on a trampoline, I didn't "betray" my biases; I stated them.

If things continue as they have gone since Y2K, a lot of things that are "frankly, unacceptable to the bulk of the country" may happen.

What are those "things"?

198 Only The Lurker Knows  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 2:12:48pm

re: #190 HappyWarrior

Pretty much.

199 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 2:13:28pm

re: #188 engineer cat

dan quayle
sarah palin
paul rand ryan

there was a time, i recall, that i thought that political campaigns were run by smart people who made very careful, intelligent decisions

I think Bush could have had a good one if Cheney hadn't insisted that he be the VP himself if the long held rumors are true. Story I heard was that Bush liked John Danforth (Who interestingly is a Episcopal priest and probably the biggest critic of the religious right within the GOP) or Tom Ridge (Who from what I understand was fairly socially moderate.) Speaking of Danforth though, could he be one of the high profile Republicans that the Dems have at the DNC? He was always well respected I believe and as I noted he has criticized the religious right.

200 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 2:13:37pm

re: #192 jvic

Jesus Christ on a trampoline, I didn't "betray" my biases; I stated them.

If things continue as they have gone since Y2K, a lot of things that are "frankly, unacceptable to the bulk of the country" may happen.

Ryan's "Plan" is everything that has gone on since Y2K, because it's everything that went on since 1981, with the exception of an 8 year stretch during the 90s when the country had a short stint of sanity.

201 dragonath  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 2:14:16pm

re: #192 jvic

Jesus Christ on a trampoline, I didn't "betray" my biases; I stated them.

If things continue as they have gone since Y2K, a lot of things that are "frankly, unacceptable to the bulk of the country" may happen.

And why is that? Who ran the budget into the ground? Why do you think Ryan is the solution when it has been proven that he is part of the problem?

202 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 2:16:22pm

If Ryan is so concerned about the deficit, why did he support those Bush items? Easy to claim now that Bush is persona non grata within the GOP and especially with conservatives that he did so with disgust and reluctance but the Congressional GOP who it must be noted was the majority party for 3/4 of his term was by and large happy to help Bush out on his domestic agenda with the notable exception of Bush's immigration policy.

203 engineer cat  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 2:17:54pm

re: #192 jvic

Jesus Christ on a trampoline, I didn't "betray" my biases; I stated them.

If things continue as they have gone since Y2K, a lot of things that are "frankly, unacceptable to the bulk of the country" may happen.

the trustees of social security - a group of people officially charged with one of the most sacred trusts in american society - predict that, if social security financing continues unchanged, the social security trust fund will become exhausted by about 2036, and after that time, social security will only be able to pay out about 75% of benefits

however:

1) it is possible to fix this solely by increasing the limit on the amount of income subject to social security taxes - currently $106,500

2) it is predicted that the imbalance of ss recipients to contributors will be in the process of being reversed after 2030. that is because, as many ayn randite commentators seem to forget, us baby boomers will eventually begin to die, despite our deeply held belief that we will live forever

204 engineer cat  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 2:21:08pm

as for medicare, the problems are more immediate and difficult to fix

but one of the main financing problems with medicare is due to the fact that american health care is twice as expensive as anywhere else for the same amount of medical care

ryan's solution is like declaring if we can't afford enough food to feed the children, the obvious solution is to feed them less

i think there may be different approaches

205 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 2:21:09pm

Seriously, how one can read Ryan's "Plan" and not see it as even more "kicking the can down the street" is mind-boggling. His "Plan" is the very definition of "kicking the can," because it does nothing to address major budgetary items while at the same time exploding the deficit by cutting the wealthy yet another check at the expense of the middle and poor classes.

206 engineer cat  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 2:22:51pm

re: #203 engineer cat

the trustees of social security - a group of people officially charged with one of the most sacred trusts in american society - predict that, if social security financing continues unchanged, the social security trust fund will become exhausted by about 2036, and after that time, social security will only be able to pay out about 75% of benefits

however:

1) it is possible to fix this solely by increasing the limit on the amount of income subject to social security taxes - currently $106,500

2) it is predicted that the imbalance of ss recipients to contributors will be in the process of being reversed after 2030. that is because, as many ayn randite commentators seem to forget, us baby boomers will eventually begin to die, despite our deeply held belief that we will live forever

i would also like to add: if you don't believe what the trustees of social security are saying - if you think they are lying - you had better bring this to the attention of the news media, since it would be one of the biggest scandals in american political history

207 uncah91  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 2:23:02pm

re: #203 engineer cat

the trustees of social security - a group of people officially charged with one of the most sacred trusts in american society - predict that, if social security financing continues unchanged, the social security trust fund will become exhausted by about 2036, and after that time, social security will only be able to pay out about 75% of benefits

however:

1) it is possible to fix this solely by increasing the limit on the amount of income subject to social security taxes - currently $106,500

2) it is predicted that the imbalance of ss recipients to contributors will be in the process of being reversed after 2030. that is because, as many ayn randite commentators seem to forget, us baby boomers will eventually begin to die, despite our deeply held belief that we will live forever

Heare, hear.

SS is in no danger and is not itself a danger to the budget.

The biggest danger to the long term budget is Medicare spending, and mostly that is due to healthcare inflation. And unless we are just willing to let our parents go without care, cuttinge Medicare won't actually address the actual problem, it just shifts it.

208 Digital Display  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 2:29:19pm

re: #206 engineer cat

i would also like to add: if you don't believe what the trustees of social security are saying - if you think they are lying - you had better bring this to the attention of the news media, since it would be one of the biggest scandals in american political history

Ahhh..Remember the good old days when both parties debated the use of a lock box to preserve and protect our investment in SS.
That ended up all Bullshit after the 2000 election.

209 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 2:31:15pm

Pocho Ocho reasons Mitt Romney won’t release his tax returns

8. Uses Etch-A-Sketch for accounting
7. Lists his status as “Corporation”
6. Substantial deduction for fake police uniforms

Read the rest here.

210 aagcobb  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 2:31:28pm

re: #171 allegro

Like most of the rest of the population, the GOP is seriously misreading seniors. They assume that they are like them with the "fuck you, I have mine" attitude. They figure that long as they don't mess with today's benefits - something they continually stress - and only trash future programs for people a few years younger that they will continue to have senior support. It isn't working with a lot of seniors who don't want to see this safety net eliminated for their children and grandchildren. Not all are moral cretins.

I guess they hope to make the argument that their children will have to sacrifice because their grandchildren won't be able to support them. Of course the reality is social security and medicare are affordable with small tweaks and higher taxes on the rich, who are the real group Ryan wants to protect.

211 erik_t  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 2:32:41pm

re: #208 Digital Display

Strategery!

212 jvic  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 2:34:09pm

re: #196 uncah91

Here is some common ground. We need to address the deficit in the medium term, once the economy gets much closer to full employment.

Agreed.

Here is where I disagree with you and Ryan, more tax cuts cannot be part of that equation. Because of the insistence on more tax cuts, the Ryan budget actually enlarges the deficit.

I didn't say that tax cuts increases cannot be part of the equation. (Or if I did somewhere, please point it out because it would have been inadvertent.) I said that the Ryan is willing to place front and center a growing fiscal danger that most politicians not only ignore, but abet:

Bush and Obama have kicked budgetary issues down a road that leads to a cliff. Ryan has seemed willing to confront that fact.

213 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 2:34:24pm

re: #211 erik_t

Strategery!

You may think you know where the lockbox is and maybe you do, or maybe that's a dummy lockbox. Maybe I'm mistaken but didn't Gore and Bush actually co-host a SNL best of political sketches show together? Maybe I'm wrong and it was merely Darrell Hammond as Gore and Will Ferrell as Bush doing that but I think they may have.

214 erik_t  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 2:35:57pm

re: #212 jvic

I didn't say that tax cuts increases cannot be part of the equation. (Or if I did somewhere, please point it out because it would have been inadvertent.) I said that the Ryan is willing to place front and center a growing fiscal danger that most politicians not only ignore, but abet:

How long is thirty years in can-kicks?

215 aagcobb  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 2:36:56pm

re: #196 uncah91

Here is some common ground. We need to address the deficit in the medium term, once the economy gets much closer to full employment.

Here is where I disagree with you and Ryan, more tax cuts cannot be part of that equation. Because of the insistence on more tax cuts, the Ryan budget actually enlarges the deficit.

I would say temporary tax cuts could be part of the equation, to get more money into the hands of the middle class as part of a stimulus plan. Paul Ryan's tax cuts just exacerbate the long term problems.

216 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 2:40:51pm

re: #208 Digital Display

Ahhh..Remember the good old days when both parties debated the use of a lock box to preserve and protect our investment in SS.
That ended up all Bullshit after the 2000 election.

Interesting. My thought is no matter what, my money paid in IS in a lock box. Try to take that away and revolt, here we come.

217 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 2:41:35pm

re: #212 jvic

Agreed.

I didn't say that tax cuts increases cannot be part of the equation. (Or if I did somewhere, please point it out because it would have been inadvertent.) I said that the Ryan is willing to place front and center a growing fiscal danger that most politicians not only ignore, but abet:

You do know that presidents only propose and ultimately sign budgets, right? That the House of Representatives, of which Ryan is a member, is responsible for writing the budget. And Ryan voted for pretty much everything we might agree grew the deficit and debt, including the second round of Bush Tax Cuts, the Iraq War, Medicare Part D, and TARP. And that Ryan's budgetary "Plan" does nothing to balance the budget for 30 years, and is actually projected to add $6 trillion to the debt over the next 10 years.

Ryan's a charlatan, one you're willing to at least meet halfway because he says things that you agree with, even though the things he does are exactly the opposite.

218 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 2:41:49pm

I really see nothing with Ryan's plan that helps the middle class and nothing that requires the rich to sacrifice. Ryan and his plan's supporters say we're going to have to sacrifice but under his plan the rich not only don't sacrifice anything, they get a nice tax break. Now someone nicely tell me how giving the rich a tax break while increasing taxes and fees on the middle and lower classes is not a form of class warfare? That's what class warfare is. It's not proposing that we return to Clinton era tax levels. It's not suggesting that the rich should pay more. It's basically giving a Norquist style wet kiss to one's wealthy contributors at the expense of people making less. Obama conceded that some social spending had to be cut to work on the debt which is something I agree with despite my personal aversion to cutting social spending. Why can't Republicans do the same even though they may share an aversion to tax increases much like the president and his allies have an aversion to cutting social spending? I'll tell you why. It's because the Republicans are afraid of getting mean looks and letters from Grover Norquist for daring to support a tax increase when it's necessary. This isn't the old balance the budget GOP. This is tax cuts or bust.

219 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 2:42:09pm

re: #210 aagcobb

I guess they hope to make the argument that their children will have to sacrifice because their grandchildren won't be able to support them. Of course the reality is social security and medicare are affordable with small tweaks and higher taxes on the rich, who are the real group Ryan wants to protect.

I get so tired of having SS & Medicare being the boogie men. Nope, they aren't.

220 Digital Display  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 2:44:12pm

re: #216 Stanley Sea

Interesting. My thought is no matter what, my money paid in IS in a lock box. Try to take that away and revolt, here we come.

The problem is that the lock box is stuffed full of IOU's.
Reminds me of Dumb and Dumber

221 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 2:44:32pm

re: #220 Digital Display

The problem is that the lock box is stuffed full of IOU's.
Reminds me of Dumb and Dumber

"How do they know I got gas?"

222 engineer cat  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 2:44:32pm

Bush and Obama have kicked budgetary issues down a road that leads to a cliff. Ryan has seemed willing to confront that fact.

you mean to say that the democratic party has addressed these issues but the republican party has insisted on a my-way-or-the-highway approach of insisting on ryan-like distortions and unacceptable "solutions"

as a matter of fact, i submit "ryan-like" as shorthand for the tactic of stating a false premise, and then suggesting "solutions" that actually make things worse

223 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 2:49:02pm

re: #220 Digital Display

The problem is that the lock box is stuffed full of IOU's.
Reminds me of Dumb and Dumber

I always think to that statement SS sends out. You've paid in X, and if you retire then, you will get X.

Whatever if it's an IOU. There will be a fucking revolt better than the Greeks if that goes poof. Or if I have to find a NEW freaking financial planner to handle this shit, shittily.

Nope, the average American want's it just the way it is.

224 darthstar  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 2:51:18pm
225 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 2:53:31pm

I'm sorry, but when I hear somebody go "Well, at least he acknowledges the problem," that's what I call damning with faint praise. Even the media, after weeks of stories about how "bold" and "serious" Ryan's budget was, had to admit that nobody liked it and that serious economists agreed it was a joke. Ryan was quick to sing its praises, but when the media started hammering him with real questions, like how he was going to balance the steep tax cuts he called for with "reform" that would result in a revenue-neutral tax code, he passed the buck to the Joint Committee on Taxation and said they'd have to make it work. No economist I could find was able to make it work without dropping a huge new tax liability onto the middle and poor classes.

And like I said above, by the time it was all said and done, even Ryan couldn't salvage his budget from the savaging of the experts. The best he could do by summer's end was go "Well, at least it got people talking."

226 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 2:55:06pm

re: #224 darthstar

[Embedded content]

Knew it. Can't stand Erickson but he's right here. You don't get to choose Paul Ryan because of the Ryan plan and then run away from the reason you chose him. Who do they really think they're going to please by doing this? Their supporters like Erickson think it's a load of crap. Independent voters will find it dishonest surely. Romney's campaign keeps on showing they're inept. If they didn't want to be linked with Ryan and his plan, they should have chosen someone else.

227 uncah91  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 2:55:52pm

re: #212 jvic

Agreed.

I didn't say that tax cuts increases cannot be part of the equation. (Or if I did somewhere, please point it out because it would have been inadvertent.) I said that the Ryan is willing to place front and center a growing fiscal danger that most politicians not only ignore, but abet:

If we simply let the bush tax cuts expire, the deficit would go poof once we got out back to full employment (and got out of Afghanistan).

Proposing even more tax cuts isn't facing the problem. Look up the phrase "starve the beast" and you will understand that the crisis is a manufactured one.

228 darthstar  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 2:56:27pm

re: #226 HappyWarrior

Knew it. Can't stand Erickson but he's right here. You don't get to choose Paul Ryan because of the Ryan plan and then run away from the reason you chose him. Who do they really think they're going to please by doing this? Their supporters like Erickson think it's a load of crap. Independent voters will find it dishonest surely. Romney's campaign keeps on showing they're inept. If they didn't want to be linked with Ryan and his plan, they should have chosen someone else.

And for this I'm truly grateful. When your most ardent supporters are calling you on your bullshit, you're fucked.

229 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 2:57:35pm

re: #226 HappyWarrior

Knew it. Can't stand Erickson but he's right here. You don't get to choose Paul Ryan because of the Ryan plan and then run away from the reason you chose him. Who do they really think they're going to please by doing this? Their supporters like Erickson thinlk it's a load of crap. Independent voters will find it dishonest surely. Romney's campaign keeps on showing they're inept. If they didn't want to be linked with Ryan and his plan, they should have chosen someone else.

Who the fuck is Paul Ryan WITHOUT the "Ryan Plan"

give us an fucking intelligent break.

230 makeitstop  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 2:58:00pm

re: #212 jvic

Agreed.

I didn't say that tax cuts increases cannot be part of the equation.

Nope. Grover Norquist did, and for some reason the GOP is scared to death of him.

Ergo, tax increases cannot be part of the equation.

231 engineer cat  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 2:59:58pm

re: #227 uncah91

If we simply let the bush tax cuts expire, the deficit would go poof once we got out back to full employment (and got out of Afghanistan).

Proposing even more tax cuts isn't facing the problem. Look up the phrase "starve the beast" and you will understand that the crisis is a manufactured one.

i remember that the balanced budget produced, among other reasons, by the clinton tax rates resulted in republican op-eds claiming that a balanced budget proved that taxes were too high

232 erik_t  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 3:00:49pm

re: #230 makeitstop

Nope. Grover Norquist did, and for some reason the GOP is scared to death of him.

Ergo, tax increases cannot be part of the equation.

In some senses, the US has joined the generally-unflattering list of countries where Chief of Party is more powerful than any single elected official.

It's unfortunate.

233 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 3:01:20pm

re: #231 engineer cat

i remember that the balanced budget produced, among other reasons, by the clinton tax rates resulted in republican op-eds claiming that a balanced budget proved that taxes were too high

Yeah, it's why we got the BBA late last year that pegged taxes and spending at 18%, because according to Republicans, that's the "ideal" percentage.

234 uncah91  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 3:02:59pm

re: #212 jvic

Agreed.

I didn't say that tax cuts increases cannot be part of the equation. (Or if I did somewhere, please point it out because it would have been inadvertent.) I said that the Ryan is willing to place front and center a growing fiscal danger that most politicians not only ignore, but abet:

And while we are on the subject, Obama would actually have balanced the budget if the Republicans would have let him. He was prepared to go 4:1 cuts to revenue. To say he wasn't willing to address it is faulty memory.

235 sagehen  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 3:04:01pm

re: #233 Targetpractice

Yeah, it's why we got the BBA late last year that pegged taxes and spending at 18%, because according to Republicans, that's the "ideal" percentage.

Even though for the entire 20th century it was 20 or 21%.

236 jaunte  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 3:04:10pm

Paul Ryan is Very Serious About Ballooning The Deficit

237 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 3:04:14pm

re: #229 Stanley Sea

Who the fuck is Paul Ryan WITHOUT the "Ryan Plan"

give us an fucking intelligent break.

Just another congressional Republican. Really, I don't blame Romney for not wanting to be tied to the Ryan plan. It's unpopular and is a sure political and more importantly economic loser. However, he doesn't get to pick its architect especially when it is said architect's claim to fame and run away from it. I am glad Erickson recognizes this and is calling Romney out because it's deeply delusional and dishonest behavior.

238 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 3:06:05pm

re: #237 HappyWarrior

Just another congressional Republican. Really, I don't blame Romney for not wanting to be tied to the Ryan plan. It's unpopular and is a sure political and more importantly economic loser. However, he doesn't get to pick its architect especially when it is said architect's claim to fame and run away from it. I am glad Erickson recognizes this and is calling Romney out because it's deeply delusional and dishonest behavior.

Romney got strong-armed into choosing Ryan because the wingnuts love Ryan's "Plan." Hate to break it to Willard, but every time he's tried to have things his way in this campaign, the base has smacked him upside the head. If he thinks that saying "Alright, I'll choose Ryan, but not his Plan" will win over the base, then he's in for a serious wake-up call.

239 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 3:14:22pm

re: #238 Targetpractice

Romney got strong-armed into choosing Ryan because the wingnuts love Ryan's "Plan." Hate to break it to Willard, but every time he's tried to have things his way in this campaign, the base has smacked him upside the head. If he thinks that saying "Alright, I'll choose Ryan, but not his Plan" will win over the base, then he's in for a serious wake-up call.

Does Romney have some over/under bet on his run that will make him bank? Seriously.

240 aagcobb  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 3:18:06pm

re: #226 HappyWarrior

Knew it. Can't stand Erickson but he's right here. You don't get to choose Paul Ryan because of the Ryan plan and then run away from the reason you chose him. Who do they really think they're going to please by doing this? Their supporters like Erickson think it's a load of crap. Independent voters will find it dishonest surely. Romney's campaign keeps on showing they're inept. If they didn't want to be linked with Ryan and his plan, they should have chosen someone else.

I'm guessing the strategy here was to maximize base turn-out based on hatred of Obama+excitement for Ryan, then bet that lowered enthusiasm for Obama with his base + voter supression efforts lead to narrow victory. But Romney doesn't have the guts to go all in, so he hedged his bet by backing off the Ryan plan.

241 jvic  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 3:19:03pm

re: #227 uncah91

If we simply let the bush tax cuts expire, the deficit would go poof once we got out back to full employment (and got out of Afghanistan).

That sounds plausible though I haven't seen numbers.

once we got out back to full employment: I suspect there's more to that than the level of taxation and spending.

Proposing even more tax cuts isn't facing the problem. Look up the phrase "starve the beast" and you will understand that the crisis is a manufactured one.

I know the phrase, thank you, but looked it up just in case I had misunderstood it. I hadn't.

In exchange for your suggestion, I offer Thucydides' warnings about partisanship.

242 darthstar  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 3:22:46pm

re: #239 Stanley Sea

Does Romney have some over/under bet on his run that will make him bank? Seriously.

He's shorting himself on Intrade.

243 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 3:26:43pm

re: #242 darthstar

He's shorting himself on Intrade.

betcha. Or his "speaking engagement" $$ will improve to 4x our salaries.

Dude is cold.

244 engineer cat  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 3:27:56pm

re: #241 jvic

That sounds plausible though I haven't seen numbers.

once we got out back to full employment: I suspect there's more to that than the level of taxation and spending.

I know the phrase, thank you, but looked it up just in case I had misunderstood it. I hadn't.

In exchange for your suggestion, I offer Thucydides' warnings about partisanship.

you think you are being non-partisan, but you are actually accepting a very partisan definition of non-partisan

245 Killgore Trout  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 3:30:02pm

re: #241 jvic

That sounds plausible though I haven't seen numbers.

once we got out back to full employment: I suspect there's more to that than the level of taxation and spending.

I know the phrase, thank you, but looked it up just in case I had misunderstood it. I hadn't.

In exchange for your suggestion, I offer Thucydides' warnings about partisanship.

Thanks for posting that. I don;t think I've ever read that before.

246 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 3:31:51pm

re: #241 jvic

That sounds plausible though I haven't seen numbers.

once we got out back to full employment: I suspect there's more to that than the level of taxation and spending.

I know the phrase, thank you, but looked it up just in case I had misunderstood it. I hadn't.

In exchange for your suggestion, I offer Thucydides' warnings about partisanship.

So, do tell us, how is the view from high up upon that ivory tower?

247 Belafon  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 3:33:47pm

re: #154 jvic

Bush and Obama have kicked budgetary issues down a road that leads to a cliff. Ryan has seemed willing to confront that fact.

Bush decided the best thing to do was sell the can: He had a budget surplus which he traded in for tax cuts, and then did not pay for the wars.

Ryan strikes me as being in the same mold as the Republicans were after 1994: While Clinton wanted to lower the deficit - he signed a tax increase - the Republicans were only against spending while a Democrat was president. And Ryan proved it with his votes after Bush won office. If Romney wins, and the Senate split 50-50, Ryan would cast every deciding vote to increase spending and lower taxes on the wealthy.

There already is a party that is willing to fix the deficit and debt issues in a reasonable, grown up way. We call its members Democrats. There used to be members in the Republican party that would meet Democrats in the middle; Ryan is not one of them.

248 b_sharp  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 3:37:32pm

re: #247 Belafon

Bush decided the best thing to do was sell the can: He had a budget surplus which he traded in for tax cuts, and then did not pay for the wars.

Ryan strikes me as being in the same mold as the Republicans were after 1994: While Clinton wanted to lower the deficit - he signed a tax increase - the Republicans were only against spending while a Democrat was president. And Ryan proved it with his votes after Bush won office. If Romney wins, and the Senate split 50-50, Ryan would cast every deciding vote to increase spending and lower taxes on the wealthy.

There already is a party that is willing to fix the deficit and debt issues in a reasonable, grown up way. We call its members Democrats. There used to be members in the Republican party that would meet Democrats in the middle; Ryan is not one of them.

I think Iraq was supposed to pay for the war.

249 darthstar  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 3:37:34pm
250 Kruk  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 3:40:01pm

Loved Romney's Fruedian slip when he introduced Ryan "The next president of the United States".

Even Romeny realises there's no chance of beating Obama in 2012.

251 Belafon  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 3:42:24pm

re: #248 b_sharp

Being someone idealistic, I don't tend to think that our bases in other countries is like the old idea of an empire, but the idea that we would invade a country, and the country would pay for our invasion was the argument made by an Emperor.

252 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 3:43:53pm

re: #251 Belafon

Being someone idealistic, I don't tend to think that our bases in other countries is like the old idea of an empire, but the idea that we would invade a country, and the country would pay for our invasion was the argument made by an Emperor.

"Spoils of war," which is something we used to abhor and argue against.

253 jaunte  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 3:47:25pm

Paul Ryan's plan is a path to prosperity for Mitt Romney and people like him

In 2010 -- the only year we have seen a full return from him -- Romney would have paid an effective tax rate of around 0.82 percent under the Ryan plan, rather than the 13.9 percent he actually did.
.....
It might seem impossible to fund the government when the super-rich pay no taxes. That is accurate. Ryan would actually raise taxes on the bottom 30 percent of earners, according to the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center, but that hardly fills the revenue hole he would create. The solution? All but eliminate all government outside of Social Security and defense -- a point my colleague Derek Thompson has made in incredible chart form.

254 JamesWI  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 3:48:22pm

I was working out and caught some of Romney's latest speech today. He was describing Ryan as someone who reaches across the aisle......LOL

Yeah, if by "reaching across the aisle," you mean going to the Democrats and saying "Here's a plan that includes everything we want, nothing you want, and we're not willing to compromise on any of it." Then sure, he loves reaching across the aisle.

255 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 3:50:03pm

re: #254 JamesWI

I was working out and caught some of Romney's latest speech today. He was describing Ryan as someone who reaches across the aisle......LOL

Yeah, if by "reaching across the aisle," you mean going to the Democrats and saying "Here's a plan that includes everything we want, nothing you want, and we're not willing to compromise on any of it." Then sure, he loves reaching across the aisle.

Remember when Paul Ryan sat down with Glenn Beck and agreed that progressivism was a plague on the United States?

Reaching across the aisle.

256 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 3:51:24pm

re: #254 JamesWI

I was working out and caught some of Romney's latest speech today. He was describing Ryan as someone who reaches across the aisle......LOL

Yeah, if by "reaching across the aisle," you mean going to the Democrats and saying "Here's a plan that includes everything we want, nothing you want, and we're not willing to compromise on any of it." Then sure, he loves reaching across the aisle.

That's the Republican definition of "compromise," didn't you know? "I get 99.9% of what I want, you get .1% of what you want, and I bitch and whine that you got anything at all."

257 jvic  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 3:53:08pm

re: #245 Killgore Trout

Thanks for posting that. I don;t think I've ever read that before.

You're quite welcome. Glad you find it relevant.

When I graduated from high school back in cough cough, I had a soft-focus view of ancient Greece. I read Thucydides as a college freshman, but virtually all of it faded from memory in subsequent decades. However, the passage on partisanship, and the Melian Debate (the strong do what they can, the weak bear what they must) shocked the bejesus out of me so much that I never forgot them.

258 Digital Display  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 3:57:12pm

My Prediction:
Tonight all over America Tea Party members will be putting up posters of Ryan and do the wild thing...( Candles and lotion will be involved )
Sorry about the visual

259 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 3:58:56pm

re: #258 Digital Display

My Prediction:
Tonight all over America Tea Party members will be putting up posters of Ryan and do the wild thing...( Candles and lotion will be involved )
Sorry about the visual

Times I wish there was a way to blind one's mind eye.

260 Killgore Trout  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 3:59:54pm

re: #257 jvic

You're quite welcome. Glad you find it relevant.

When I graduated from high school back in cough cough, I had a soft-focus view of ancient Greece. I read Thucydides as a college freshman, but virtually all of it faded from memory in subsequent decades. However, the passage on partisanship, and the Melian Debate (the strong do what they can, the weak bear what they must) shocked the bejesus out of me so much that I never forgot them.

I've been brushing up on my philosophy over the past couple years. I haven't gone back to the greeks yet in my adult life and the only one that really stuck with me from high school was The Cave Allegory, which also has some loose tie ins with the discussion of partisanship and world view.

261 darthstar  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 4:02:34pm

Romney's daily backpedal.

[Link: politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...]

262 austin_blue  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 4:08:31pm

Paul Ryan, true believer.

I don't think he's helpful. Except for Ohio. Maybe.

People like Medicare. They also like Medicaid when it keeps Nana and Pawpaw from getting bled dry in nursing homes. Curious choice, as CongressCritters always are in National elections.

263 darthstar  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 4:28:52pm
264 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 4:30:39pm

re: #261 darthstar

Romney's daily backpedal.

[Link: politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...]

I think Romney honestly didn't know about the race between Cucinnelli and Bolling that is brewing. From what I'm told by friends who understand local politics better than I do, Bolling agreed to let McDonnell run for governor while Bolling and him were Lt Governor and AG under Kaine. I don't really know too much about Bolling. He's conservative, fairly low key, and really not as bombastic as Cuccinnelli which is probably why Cuccinnelli is so popular with conservative activists. Bolling is the establishment's guy easy to say.

265 darthstar  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 4:32:58pm

The team I support looks ready to kick ass and take names. The other team just looks creepy.

266 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 4:34:24pm

Just me or do the photos of Ryan and Romney together look like photos of a father with his son?

267 jvic  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 4:42:43pm

re: #260 Killgore Trout

I've been brushing up on my philosophy over the past couple years. I haven't gone back to the greeks yet in my adult life and the only one that really stuck with me from high school was The Cave Allegory, which also has some loose tie ins with the discussion of partisanship and world view.

My recollection of the Cave is that the poor devil who began to see clearly was placed, for his trouble, at a disadvantage in his society. Now that you've prompted me to reexamine the allegory with adult eyes, I perceive that there is much more to it than my adolescent impression.

Hopefully someday I, like you, will deepen my understanding of our Western heritage. That said, if I could consult only a single book for the rest of my life, the book would be the Tao Te Ching. (Quibble: I have not paid the enormous "cover charge" required to meet Spinoza, but those who have paid it seem to believe it is well worth it.)

It's time to log off. Good evening, all.

268 HappyWarrior  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 4:50:47pm

I see Republican and conservative bloggers trying to make Ryan out to be some guy of outsider reformer. Hah, this guy's been in Washington for pretty much his whole career and you're going to try to sell him as an outsider. Good luck with that, guys.

269 uncah91  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 4:51:02pm

re: #241 jvic

That sounds plausible though I haven't seen numbers.

once we got out back to full employment: I suspect there's more to that than the level of taxation and spending.

I know the phrase, thank you, but looked it up just in case I had misunderstood it. I hadn't.

In exchange for your suggestion, I offer Thucydides' warnings about partisanship.

I'm not exactly sure why pointing out that the Ryan plan continues a decades long trend of Republicans attempting shrink government revenues so that spending cuts are necessary is a partisan observation.

The republicans are proposing makinge the Bush tax permanent. Obama is proposing only a one year extension except for ncome above 250k. Is that as brave as coming out and saying we can't afford the tax cuts? No. Is it more realistic than proposing that we can somehow reduce the deficit by further cutting taxes? Yes.

As for Thucydides:

Each man was strong only in the conviction that nothing was secure; he must look to his own safety, and could not afford to trust others.

Which party does this describe right now?

270 labman57  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 6:26:46pm

Romney and Ryan to female voters: "The GOP has your back."

Meanwhile, Republican Senators vote against anti-domestic violence legislation,
… the governor of Wisconsin repeals "equal pay for women" legislation,
… conservative pundits and politicians claim that men deserve higher pay for equal work because "men need the added income more than do women" or because "men know more stuff than do women",
… Romney, Ryan, and the Congressional GOP leadership vow to "kill ObamaCare", including all of the components within the ACA that provide affordable preventative health care for women and children,
… Congressional and state Republican legislators strive to make affordable access to contraception and breast cancer screenings more difficult with their assault on PP and employee health insurance coverage,
… female state legislators are shunned and silenced for uttering the word "vagina" (gasp) during an abortion debate,
… and GOP-controlled state legislatures mandate that women seeking an abortion provide social conservative politicians with "a womb with a view".
So much for the tea party/conservative movement's mantra: "small, non-intrusive government".

The 2012 GOP campaign slogan: A chicken in every pot and a spy-cam in every uterus.

American women to Republican Party: "WE will decide whether or not our rights are being assaulted by conservative policies, thank you very much."

271 Patricia Kayden  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 8:00:45pm

Romney made a great VP pick.

For Obama.

Not sure why Romney felt that he had to pick Ryan since he has the "anything but Obama" vote completely wrapped up. Hatred for Obama would have gotten them out in November. How exactly is Ryan attractive to disappointed Democrats or Indepedent voters?

272 lostlakehiker  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 10:42:36pm

re: #186 HappyWarrior

Thing that is hurting Romney is outside of Indiana, there is no state that went for Obama last time that is pretty much a gimme for him this time. Now, I think ultimately he will win back for the GOP more than just Indiana but it's not going to be easy to do. And as already said, he may have to fight in ground he didn't expect to like Arizona. He can of course win but he needs to cut into Obama's lead in states that have typically been won by past winning Republicans. He hasn't done that and I don't see it getting better unless Obama gets embroiled in a scandal or makes a huge blunder or even more unlikely if Mitt suddenly decides to run a smart campaign.

Obama is embroiled in a couple of scandals already but without consequence. (Solyndra, Fast and Furious). The political markets continue to rate him 60% likely to win. That seems to me an underestimate, but everybody thinks their own judgment is pretty good and everybody else but me seems to be wrong in that self-estimation, so just maybe, I'm not that good at prognostication either.

If current trends hold, Obama will win easily enough. That has to be part of Romney's thinking in naming Ryan: an old chess principle---when you're losing, complicate. There are a number of things that might make a difference that can happen, or not happen, before the election. We'll find out on election night, unless it's a real cliffhanger and that's unlikely.

273 Ming  Sat, Aug 11, 2012 11:27:43pm

It's interesting that at the level of pure ideology, Paul Ryan is worlds apart from where Mitt Romney was as Governor of Massachusetts, when it comes to abortion, and related issues.

Sure, Romney says he's changed his position. But I'm not sure if Romney, even in his recent incarnation, is ideologically compatible with his own running mate. Has Romney said that he opposes abortion, even in cases of rape or incest, or endangerment of the mother's life? Has Romney said that he opposes all research that uses stem cells obtained from human embryos? Has Romney said that he is opposed to in-vitro fertilization (which generally leaves a few "rejected" embryos, in addition to the embryo that's implanted).

I don't know the answers, so I'm being lazy and I'm only posing the questions. But it's worth noting that these are (in today's politics) major ideological differences.


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