Reagan Budget Adviser David Stockman: Ryan’s Budget a ‘Fairy Tale’

A take-down from the right
Politics • Views: 31,424
President Ronald Reagan with economic adviser David Stockman

Reagan budget adviser David Stockman has today’s must-read op-ed, labeling the Paul Ryan budget plan an “empty conservative sermon:” Paul Ryan’s Fairy-Tale Budget Plan.

The Ryan Plan boils down to a fetish for cutting the top marginal income-tax rate for “job creators” — i.e. the superwealthy — to 25 percent and paying for it with an as-yet-undisclosed plan to broaden the tax base. Of the $1 trillion in so-called tax expenditures that the plan would attack, the vast majority would come from slashing popular tax breaks for employer-provided health insurance, mortgage interest, 401(k) accounts, state and local taxes, charitable giving and the like, not to mention low rates on capital gains and dividends. The crony capitalists of K Street already own more than enough Republican votes to stop that train before it leaves the station.

In short, Mr. Ryan’s plan is devoid of credible math or hard policy choices. And it couldn’t pass even if Republicans were to take the presidency and both houses of Congress. Mr. Romney and Mr. Ryan have no plan to take on Wall Street, the Fed, the military-industrial complex, social insurance or the nation’s fiscal calamity and no plan to revive capitalist prosperity — just empty sermons.

(h/t: Gus.)

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105 comments
1 Kragar  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 11:22:34am

Waiting to hear how this guy is a RINO and doesn't understand the nuances of the Ryan plan.

2 Targetpractice  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 11:23:11am

But his budget is bold! And serious!

3 makeitstop  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 11:23:42am

Oh, boy. When you've lost Mr. Trickle-Down...

4 Gus  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 11:26:07am
5 Kragar  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 11:26:13am

re: #3 makeitstop

...its a real pisser.

6 Charles Johnson  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 11:26:49am

re: #4 Gus

Ronald Reagan and David Stockman

Good find -- added to the post.

7 Gus  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 11:27:47am

re: #6 Charles Johnson

Good find -- added to the post.

My pleasure.

8 HappyWarrior  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 11:27:54am

Ryan kust got pwned but watch this be ignored.

9 Targetpractice  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 11:29:03am

re: #8 HappyWarrior

Ryan kust got pwned but watch this be ignored.

Let's take a second to remember last year, when the "liberal media" was gushing in every other story for weeks about how his budget was so "bold" because it was "serious" about making the "hard choices."

10 Gus  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 11:29:21am

re: #8 HappyWarrior

Ryan kust got pwned but watch this be ignored.

Pretty much. The wingnuts will simply proceed to insult David Stockman.

11 HappyWarrior  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 11:31:10am

re: #9 Targetpractice

Let's take a second to remember last year, when the "liberal media" was gushing in every other story for weeks about how his budget was so "bold" because it was "serious" about making the "hard choices."

Hard choices when Ryan doesn't even want to consider the 700 pound elephant that is defense budget or won't support any tax increase.

12 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 11:33:03am

re: #11 HappyWarrior

Hard choices when Ryan doesn't even want to consider the 700 pound elephant that is defense budget or won't support any tax increase.

But he will keep the tax breaks for Rafalca.

13 jaunte  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 11:34:41am
14 Targetpractice  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 11:35:25am

re: #11 HappyWarrior

Hard choices when Ryan doesn't even want to consider the 700 pound elephant that is defense budget or won't support any tax increase.

And that's what had me pulling out clumps of hair, that they were lavishing praise on what amounted to a joke, a loose collection of ideals that he'd super-glued together and gotten his party to pass when the previous year, it hadn't even made it to a committee vote. Any budget that talks mightily about tackling the deficit or debt, but ignores defense and tax cuts, is not "bold" or "serious."

15 erik_t  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 11:35:37am

re: #13 jaunte

He can name what newspapers he reads...

16 Bulworth  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 11:36:21am

re: #15 erik_t

He can name what newspapers he reads...

All of them, except the librul ones.

17 Kragar  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 11:36:44am

re: #15 erik_t

He can count to potato.

18 Kragar  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 11:37:10am

re: #16 Bulworth

So 2 papers?

19 Bulworth  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 11:38:11am

re: #18 Kragar

So 2 papers?

all of them except for those ones.

20 JRCMYP  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 11:38:23am

I haven't read his "plan" so I don't know. But it's beginning to sound like a college economics class term paper...without the sourcing. Or spell check.

21 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 11:38:53am

re: #1 Kragar

Waiting to hear how this guy is a RINO and doesn't understand the nuances of the Ryan plan.

The Ryan plan has about as much nuance as a dog dragging his butthole across the carpet. CBO sez:

Perhaps the single most stunning piece of information that the CBO report reveals is that Ryan's plan "specifies a path for all other spending" (other than spending on Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, and interest payments) to drop "from 12 percent [of GDP] in 2010 to 6 percent in 2022 and 3½ percent by 2050." [2] These figures are extraordinary. As CBO notes, "spending in this category has exceeded 8 percent of GDP in every year since World War II."[3]


Military alone accounted for 4.7% in 2009.

He's either a blithering idiot, or he deliberately hopes to make government so worthless that the entire country turns into some dystopian Anarcho-Capitalist hellscape.

22 Targetpractice  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 11:39:21am

re: #13 jaunte

[Embedded content]

When I look at Ryan and hear him described as "smart," I'm reminded of Qui-Gon Jinn reminding Jar-Jar that the ability to speak does not make you intelligent.

23 jaunte  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 11:39:53am

re: #21 What Would Spalding Gray Do?

Occam's blithering razor.

24 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 11:41:53am

re: #13 jaunte

Maybe it's the hat?

[Link: girlgenius.wikia.com...]

:)

25 Bulworth  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 11:42:18am
Mr. Romney and Mr. Ryan have no plan to take on Wall Street, the Fed, the military-industrial complex

RomneyRyanRonPaul hate The Fed. Don't want it to promote employment. But they care a lot about unemployment. /

26 thecommodore  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 11:43:09am

Stockman has been dumping on supply side economics, especially the Bush version for awhile now. This article gives some context:

[Link: articles.businessinsider.com...]

27 Amory Blaine  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 11:44:11am

Good read.

28 Bulworth  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 11:44:40am

re: #18 Kragar

So 2 papers?

Whichever newspapers he can see from his P90X room.

29 Amory Blaine  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 11:44:42am

re: #2 Targetpractice

Superserious!!!

30 Charles Johnson  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 11:45:36am

Shocka! Rasmussen says Paul Ryan is getting more popular by the second:

[Link: www.rasmussenreports.com...]

31 Gus  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 11:46:20am

re: #26 thecommodore

Stockman has been dumping on supply side economics, especially the Bush version for awhile now. This article gives some context:

[Link: articles.businessinsider.com...]

...

We already HATE David Stockman!

Yep. I'm pretty sure the whack jobs already drove their bus over Stockman several years ago.

32 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 11:48:43am

re: #30 Charles Johnson

Shocka! Rasmussen says Paul Ryan is getting more popular by the second:

[Link: www.rasmussenreports.com...]

Hard for him to get less popular?

33 Amory Blaine  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 11:49:47am

Rasmussen pump YOU up!

35 Targetpractice  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 11:49:58am

re: #30 Charles Johnson

Shocka! Rasmussen says Paul Ryan is getting more popular by the second:

[Link: www.rasmussenreports.com...]

Which is probably why more and more poll watchers are either A) taking Rasmussen with a serious grain of salt or B) just ignoring him altogether.

On the other hand, I've seen polls that say most people have no clue who Ryan is and actually think his budget is a joke.

36 jaunte  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 11:50:08am

Romney Campaign Bars Press From Ryan, Adelson Event

Romney's fundraisers are typically open to pool coverage, but this one is closed.
...
Presumptive Republican vice presidential nominee Paul Ryan's first major fundraiser will be closed to the press, in apparent violation of the Romney-Ryan campaign's oft-strained agreement with the reporters who cover the campaign.
...
UPDATE: Campaign says meeting is a “finance event.”

37 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 11:51:11am

Not Mincing Words

TARP according to Stockman

Interviewer: Why was TARP a bad idea? I mean we have President Bush, President Obama, we have Tim Geithner, we have a bunch of Nobel Prize-winning economists, we have Warren Buffett, who all say TARP is the reason we're still talking, the reason we still have lights on.

Stockman: First of all, that's urban mythology. I don't think there was panic on Main Street in America. What there was was that the big pyramids of debt were crashing down on Wall Street and had we allowed nature to take its course, maybe the Goldman Sachs stock would have gone down to $10, but that's their problem and the problem of the financial speculators who owned the stock. Not a systematic problem for the economy.

Maybe a couple of banks would have been closed by the FDIC, and whether you believe in deposit insurance or not, it was there, and that was the function of deposit insurance.

Interviewer: Why did that win the political battle?

Stockman: Because Paulson, frankly, is the most incompetent, reckless Secretary of the Treasury we've had in modern history if ever. And he had no schooling in public policy and he had no schooling in the longer term issues of fiscal management or even what sound money is all about, for crying out loud.

And as a result, as the crisis metastasized, and he got all these panicked calls from his buddies on Wall Street, who were seeing their pyramids of debt come crashing down, and particularly when the stock of GS began to plunge, he panicked. There was no philosophy behind it, there was never any analysis done. This whole idea that there was systemic risk is just a term made up by people looking for ways to meddle in the economy and he ran with it.
Ads by Google

Read more: [Link: articles.businessinsider.com...]

38 Gus  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 11:52:01am
39 engineer cat  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 11:52:53am

Reagan Budget Adviser David Stockman

anybody who disagrees with rush is a libberul, so you don't have to listen to them

40 Amory Blaine  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 11:54:10am

This is how our very conservative Milwaukee County Sheriff expresses himself on official news releases:

Idiot Supervisor At It Again
Milwaukee, WI – In a statement released yesterday, Sup. John Weishan accused Sheriff David A. Clarke Jr. of misappropriating funds in responding to a request for resourcesfrom the Secret Service:“Apparently this partisan hack has pulled his head out of his ass once again to saysomething stupid. The next time little boy Weishan says something intelligent or accuratewill be the first. This is the same idiot who recently diminished the danger of lawenforcement work several weeks before one of my officers lost his life in the line of duty.He would do Milwaukee County good by crawling back into his hole.” – Sheriff Clarke.

41 engineer cat  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 11:54:21am

pyramids of debt

a society is remembered by the kind of monuments it builds

42 Kragar  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 11:55:27am

re: #38 Gus

"Tarkanian told the Las Vegas Review Journal last week that he could reach the black community in the district, touting his ties to local basketball programs."

...

43 Gus  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 11:55:55am
44 engineer cat  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 11:57:56am

the obama campaign should just really have an ad that reads those two paragraphs

most people might not follow it but the message is clear and the soberness and matter of factness that it is stated with are impressive

45 Kragar  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 11:58:13am

re: #43 Gus

Got the video.

46 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 12:00:26pm
47 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 12:00:27pm

Stockman is right about the Ryan plan. But I don't think so on TARP. Not an urban legend. That's an outliers fringe opinion.

48 Amory Blaine  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 12:01:48pm

In Paul Ryan’s home state, he supported US energy funds while decrying stimulus program

JANESVILLE, Wisc. — In 2009, as Rep. Paul D. Ryan was railing against President Obama’s $787 billion stimulus package as a “wasteful spending spree,” he wrote at least four letters to Obama’s secretary of energy asking that millions of dollars from the program be granted to a pair of Wisconsin conservation groups, according to documents obtained by the Globe.

The advocacy appeared to pay off; both groups were awarded the economic recovery funds -- one receiving a $20 million grant to help thousands of local businesses and homes improve their energy efficiency, agency documents show.

49 Gus  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 12:02:46pm

re: #47 Daniel Ballard

Stockman is right about the Ryan plan. But I don't think so on TARP. Not an urban legend. That's an outliers fringe opinion.

He's right about Paulson. ;)

50 HappyWarrior  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 12:03:28pm

re: #38 Gus

[Embedded content]

Looks like another "fiscally responsible" Republican too.

51 Only The Lurker Knows  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 12:04:02pm

Heh. Who is more in touch with the common man?

Obama Stops At Iowa State Fair, Buys Round Of Beers

From the pool report:

Finally Potus came over. "Hey everyone whose over 21, you gotta buy a beer!" Someone yelled, "is it on you?"

Potus said: "let me see what's in my wallet," and peered into his wallet.

The beer crowd, meanwhile, started chanting, "four more beers!"

Potus said, "I'll tell you what, except for Romney sign, I'll but beers for ten people."

Ryan just had hecklers escorted off.

52 dragonath  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 12:05:23pm

Ten more votes!

53 HappyWarrior  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 12:06:06pm

re: #14 Targetpractice

And that's what had me pulling out clumps of hair, that they were lavishing praise on what amounted to a joke, a loose collection of ideals that he'd super-glued together and gotten his party to pass when the previous year, it hadn't even made it to a committee vote. Any budget that talks mightily about tackling the deficit or debt, but ignores defense and tax cuts, is not "bold" or "serious."

Exactly. The only thing bold about is that he expects us to take him seriously on this. Heck Ryan not only doesn't want to cut the defense budget, he wants to increase it. Really he doesn't deserve the deficit hawk title he's earned due to the Ryan budget. A real deficit hawk would consider cutting defense and raising taxes if he felt it was necessary to reach a balanced budget. Ryan's nothing but a fraud who wants the middle and working classes to just be hit by his plan and to take it while he and his rich buddies not only enjoy the status quo but get better deals. It's a load of oligarchical bullshit posing as serious policy.

54 Kragar  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 12:07:36pm

Another Republican being investigated for voter fraud, this makes 3 I think.

Republican Candidate Under Investigation For Absentee Ballot Fraud

East Longmeadow Select­man Enrique John “Jack” Villamaino III (R), a candidate for the Massachusetts state legislature, is reportedly being investigated for voter fraud. The Boston Globe reported today that the county’s District Attorney is looking into a possible “illegal scheme to cast absentee ballots on behalf of hundreds of voters in hope of winning a primary election.” The paper notes that:

A friend of Villamaino’s who works in the East Longmeadow town clerk’s office is suspected of having changed the registrations in the office computers ­after work hours, according to one investigator who asked not to be named because the investigation is confidential.

55 HappyWarrior  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 12:08:27pm

re: #51 Bubblehead II

Heh. Who is more in touch with the common man?

Obama Stops At Iowa State Fair, Buys Round Of Beers

From the pool report:

Finally Potus came over. "Hey everyone whose over 21, you gotta buy a beer!" Someone yelled, "is it on you?"

Potus said: "let me see what's in my wallet," and peered into his wallet.

The beer crowd, meanwhile, started chanting, "four more beers!"

Potus said, "I'll tell you what, except for Romney sign, I'll but beers for ten people."

Ryan just had hecklers escorted off.

Haha those people got a real cool story, "POTUS bought me a beer." Seriously, if one doesn't like his policies, there's no doubt that Barack Obama is a much more amiable guy than Mitt Romney could ever dream to be.

56 Kragar  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 12:09:03pm

re: #55 HappyWarrior

"Thats not domestic beer, is it?"

57 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 12:09:11pm

re: #37 Daniel Ballard

Stockman: First of all, that's urban mythology. I don't think there was panic on Main Street in America. What there was was that the big pyramids of debt were crashing down on Wall Street and had we allowed nature to take its course, maybe the Goldman Sachs stock would have gone down to $10, but that's their problem and the problem of the financial speculators who owned the stock. Not a systematic problem for the economy.

The credit markets were completely frozen. All the crap about Paulson took place under Bush. Stockman then simplistically waves away the systemic risk created by AIG's insuring default swaps by asserting that it never existed. Gee, that's some quality analysis, that's who you want doing your post mortem analysis, a guy who just dismisses inconvenient facts. Basically Stockman's offering a utterly partisan, hack, pig ignorant analysis that completely skips over the meat of the crisis simply because he's intellectually incapable of addressing it within the framework of his ideology.

58 Targetpractice  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 12:09:24pm

re: #53 HappyWarrior

Exactly. The only thing bold about is that he expects us to take him seriously on this. Heck Ryan not only doesn't want to cut the defense budget, he wants to increase it. Really he doesn't deserve the deficit hawk title he's earned due to the Ryan budget. A real deficit hawk would consider cutting defense and raising taxes if he felt it was necessary to reach a balanced budget. Ryan's nothing but a fraud who wants the middle and working classes to just be hit by his plan and to take it while he and his rich buddies not only enjoy the status quo but get better deals. It's a load of oligarchical bullshit posing as serious policy.

The budget was so much of a joke, so reviled by the end, that even he couldn't salvage it in the press. The best he could do was remark that "At least it got people talking." And every wingnut who I pressed on his budget, even before it went down in flames, kept up the "Well, at least he's getting people talking about the 'dangers' of SS and Medicare/Medicaid."

"Bold," my pasty white ass.

59 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 12:11:07pm

re: #49 Gus

Yes!

60 HappyWarrior  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 12:11:10pm

re: #56 Kragar

"Thats not domestic beer, is it?"

"Some of my friends own beer companies."

61 HappyWarrior  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 12:12:00pm

re: #58 Targetpractice

The budget was so much of a joke, so reviled by the end, that even he couldn't salvage it in the press. The best he could do was remark that "At least it got people talking." And every wingnut who I pressed on his budget, even before it went down in flames, kept up the "Well, at least he's getting people talking about the 'dangers' of SS and Medicare/Medicaid."

"Bold," my pasty white ass.

Ah yes the "dangers" of SS that he used to pay for his college education. Really this guy is just an as big bullshit artist as his running mate.

62 Gus  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 12:12:07pm

re: #60 HappyWarrior

"Some of my friends own beer companies."

"Is that a 7-11 beer?"

63 Targetpractice  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 12:13:09pm

re: #61 HappyWarrior

Ah yes the "dangers" of SS that he used to pay for his college education. Really this guy is just an as big bullshit artist as his running mate.

He's a total ideologue, which is what makes Romney stand out so much more, that Ryan actually believes the craziness he's selling.

64 Kragar  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 12:13:24pm

How Paul Ryan’s Budget Would Further Undermine America’s Crumbling Infrastructure

Ryan’s proposed budget path also aims to reduce federal discretionary expenditures — including money spent on defense — to just 3.75 percent of GDP by 2050. That means dramatic cuts to programs for the poor, to primary and secondary education, to public safety, and to infrastructure spending. The Ryan budget proposes spending 25 percent less than the White House’s proposed budget does on transportation programs — just $78 billion per year.

America’s national infrastructure is famously in disrepair, with a GAO study finding as many as one in four bridges nationwide “deficient” in some way. A Center for American progress analysis earlier this year concluded that meeting our national infrastructure repair and improvement needs would require at least $129 billion per year in new investment, above current levels, for the next 10 years; other reports have put that number even higher.

Infrastructure spending creates jobs in construction and other sectors — every $1 billion in federal highway expenditures in 2007 supported as many as 30,000 jobs. And national infrastructure does more than move people — it moves stuff. While freight infrastructure — rail, inland waterways, and ports — may seem prosaic in comparison to wide-open highways or advanced high-speed rail, the goods movement system is of vital importance to our economy. And, like so many better-known examples of infrastructure failure and decay, America’s freight infrastructure is in trouble.

Freight bottlenecks and congestion cost businesses and consumers about $200 billion per year, as Keith Miller, Donna Cooper and I note in a new report released today. Total U.S. freight traffic is expected to increase more than 50 percent by 2040 — if the system can handle it.

Every day in Chicago, more than 500 freight trains attempt to make their way through the city alongside 800 passenger trains and high volumes of street traffic, meaning that it can take 30 hours for the average freight train to cross Chicago. By way of comparison, it takes only about 48 hours for a freight train to travel all the way from Los Angeles to Chicago.

65 HappyWarrior  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 12:13:47pm

re: #63 Targetpractice

He's a total ideologue, which is what makes Romney stand out so much more, that Ryan actually believes the craziness he's selling.

I don't know if he does or not really because Ryan had no problem voting for the Bush items that the economists feel added to the deficit.

66 Gus  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 12:15:28pm

You know... Senator Scott Brown of Massachusetts is a total slime ball.

67 Gus  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 12:15:57pm
68 Targetpractice  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 12:16:19pm

re: #66 Gus

You know... Senator Scott Brown of Massachusetts is a total slime ball.

What was your first clue?

69 allegro  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 12:17:03pm

re: #65 HappyWarrior

I don't know if he does or not really because Ryan had no problem voting for the Bush items that the economists feel added to the deficit.

Now, now, be fair. Ryan has said that he had concerns over those votes. Retroactively, of course.

70 HappyWarrior  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 12:17:14pm

I have to admit, I thought Brown could be a decent voice for an increasingly small moderate wing of the Republican Party but he's shown himself to be a real slime ball as Gus put it.

71 engineer cat  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 12:18:09pm

re: #56 Kragar

"Thats not domestic beer, is it?"

beers are better if they're not fully domesticated

72 Gus  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 12:18:17pm

re: #68 Targetpractice

What was your first clue?

I've been kind of ignoring him but after reading RightWingWatch MA's daily Tweets about the man. Damn. He's one awful man.

73 Kragar  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 12:19:20pm

Jerry Brown sets sights on climate-change 'deniers'

“Many of the deniers share some traits,” the website states. “Many have little or no expertise in climate science. While some have some science background, their training often is unrelated to climate science and they have not published 'peer-reviewed' scientific work in climate or atmospheric science.”

The page comes complete with footnotes and graphs, citing such sources as European health journals and tobacco documents from the 1960s.

“After decades of pumping greenhouse gases into the atmosphere, humanity is getting dangerously close to the point of no return,” Brown said in a statement. “Those who still deny global warming’s existence should wake up and honestly face the facts.”

Climate Change facts at CA.GOV

74 HappyWarrior  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 12:19:27pm

re: #69 allegro

Now, now, be fair. Ryan has said that he had concerns over those votes. Retroactively, of course.

Adorable, he's already learned alot from Mitt.

75 Targetpractice  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 12:20:37pm

re: #72 Gus

I've been kind of ignoring him but after reading RightWingWatch MA's daily Tweets about the man. Damn. He's one awful man.

He's a Republican running in a blue state who only sits where he does now because the Tea Party liked his commitment to being vote #60 against the ACA. Basically, he's Romney on a smaller scale.

76 Killgore Trout  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 12:21:42pm

re: #51 Bubblehead II

Heh. Who is more in touch with the common man?

Obama Stops At Iowa State Fair, Buys Round Of Beers

From the pool report:

Finally Potus came over. "Hey everyone whose over 21, you gotta buy a beer!" Someone yelled, "is it on you?"

Potus said: "let me see what's in my wallet," and peered into his wallet.

The beer crowd, meanwhile, started chanting, "four more beers!"

Potus said, "I'll tell you what, except for Romney sign, I'll but beers for ten people."

Ryan just had hecklers escorted off.

Behind the scenes of an "everyman" photo op.
I sell tickets for beer at the Bud Tent at the Iowa State Fair. Yesterday, Mr. Obama bought 12 tickets from my booth!!
Ryan didn't really have the women hecklers carted off for heckling. They tried to rush the stage and allegedly punched a campaign worker.

77 HappyWarrior  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 12:22:02pm

re: #75 Targetpractice

He's a Republican running in a blue state who only sits where he does now because the Tea Party liked his commitment to being vote #60 against the ACA. Basically, he's Romney on a smaller scale.

He also as I am sure many Massachusetts residents will agree that he lucked into running against one of the worst run campaigns you'll see. I wonder if that's how Mitt got elected himself in Massachusetts.

78 Kragar  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 12:22:29pm

Common Denier Arguments

Deniers continue to repeat several arguments long after they have been debunked by experts. In the past, deniers have contended (and some continue to argue) that the world is not warming. Overwhelming amounts of data from throughout the world have made that argument so fallacious that the deniers have now shifted their contention; claiming that humans are not responsible for the warming. Because the basic physics of greenhouse gases has been well-established, along with the fact that human activity has generated billions of tons of greenhouse gases, make this argument untenable, the denier argument has shifted further. Some deniers now concede that warming will occur, but that impacts will be minimal, and some argue that even if climate change will have impacts, it will cost too much for us to do anything about it. Of course, the cost of failing to act will be much higher.

What follows are some common denier arguments and responses from leading scientific organizations, including the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), the US National Academy of Sciences, and the United Kingdom’s science academy, the Royal Society.

It's nice to see government at any level taking such an aggressive response to these maniacs.

79 HappyWarrior  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 12:23:06pm

re: #76 Killgore Trout

Behind the scenes of an "everyman" photo op.
I sell tickets for beer at the Bud Tent at the Iowa State Fair. Yesterday, Mr. Obama bought 12 tickets from my booth!!
Ryan didn't really have the women hecklers carted off for heckling. They tried to rush the stage and allegedly punched a campaign worker.

Okay, what about Ryan's snide remark to the old man at the town hall? Was that okay?

80 wrenchwench  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 12:24:17pm

re: #51 Bubblehead II

Heh. Who is more in touch with the common man?

Obama Stops At Iowa State Fair, Buys Round Of Beers

There would be no Beer Summits in a Romney White House.

81 Killgore Trout  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 12:24:27pm

re: #79 HappyWarrior

Okay, what about Ryan's snide remark to the old man at the town hall? Was that okay?

I have no idea but I'll guess the correct answer to your question is "no"

82 HappyWarrior  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 12:25:53pm

re: #81 Killgore Trout

I have no idea but I'll guess the correct answer to your question is "no"

Just saying, Ryan does seem to have a problem with people dissenting with him. I'll give you another example, he pretty much trashed the chairman of the joint chiefs for calling out the shallowness of his plan and saying we needed defense cuts.

83 makeitstop  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 12:26:49pm

re: #81 Killgore Trout

I have no idea but I'll guess the correct answer to your question is "no"

I'm sure you'll find a way to justify his remarks.

84 makeitstop  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 12:28:09pm

re: #82 HappyWarrior

Just saying, Ryan does seem to have a problem with people dissenting with him. I'll give you another example, he pretty much trashed the chairman of the joint chiefs for calling out the shallowness of his plan and saying we needed defense cuts.

Yeah, essentially accused the JSC of lying because one of them said Obama's military budget wasn't The Worst Military Budget Ever.

85 Gus  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 12:29:30pm

re: #82 HappyWarrior

Just saying, Ryan does seem to have a problem with people dissenting with him. I'll give you another example, he pretty much trashed the chairman of the joint chiefs for calling out the shallowness of his plan and saying we needed defense cuts.

Authoritarian. Same as how Ryan (and Romney) want to control women's lives.

86 Kragar  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 12:29:42pm

re: #82 HappyWarrior

Paul Ryan: The Generals Are Lying About Their Support For Obama’s Pentagon Budget

Despite the military’s support for President Obama’s DOD budget, the House GOP decided in its budget released last week to roll back those cuts, claiming the current levels are not sufficient to protect America’s national security.

Today at a “policy summit” hosted by the National Journal, managing editor Kristin Roberts asked the GOP’s budget guy Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI) why the Republicans went “against the advice of the generals.” Ryan’s response? They were lying:

ROBERTS: Why did the committee choose to go against the advice of the generals?

RYAN: We don’t think the generals are giving us their true advice. We don’t think the generals believe that their budget is really the right budget. I believe that the president’s budget by virtue of the fact that when he released his budget number of about $500 billion, the number was announced at the same time they announced the beginning of their strategy review of the Pentagon’s budget. So what we get from the Pentagon is more of a budget driven strategy, not a strategy driven budget.

They're liars. That is what Generals do.
/

87 Gus  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 12:30:41pm

re: #86 Kragar

Paul Ryan: The Generals Are Lying About Their Support For Obama’s Pentagon Budget

They're liars. That is what Generals do.
/

Generals lie only when there's a Democrat in the White House.

//

88 Kragar  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 12:31:47pm

re: #87 Gus

Generals lie only when there's a Democrat in the White House.

//

What do men who've spent their entire adult lives in the the military know about what their troops need?

89 wrenchwench  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 12:32:49pm

re: #85 Gus

Authoritarian. Same as how Ryan (and Romney) want to control women's lives.

Except he backtracked on his Joint Chiefs smear. No backtrack on wanting to take women's rights away from them.

90 erik_t  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 12:33:25pm

re: #89 wrenchwench

Except he backtracked on his Joint Chiefs smear. No backtrack on wanting to take women's rights away from them.

Backtrack.... Do you mean 'flip-flopped'?

I can't keep up with the talking points.

91 wrenchwench  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 12:34:01pm

re: #90 erik_t

Backtrack.... Do you mean 'flip-flopped'?

I can't keep up with the talking points.

He borrowed Romney's Etch-A-Sketch.

92 lawhawk  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 12:34:11pm

re: #87 Gus

Generals lie? So, they're lying when they say that they don't want or need a tank that Congress has decided they should have, regardless of the cost?

The Army's looking to a new generation tank to replace/update the Abrams, but the tank manufacturer - General Dynamics - has lobbied Congress into extending the refurb run to keep the factory line running. That's a cost that the Pentagon can't afford at a time when they're trying to cut their budget and take into account the potential automatic 10% cuts enacted by Congress earlier this year unless Congress could come up with even bigger cuts.

93 Gus  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 12:34:35pm
94 Gus  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 12:36:14pm

It's true though. Ecuador just granted "asylum" for Assange.

95 HappyWarrior  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 12:37:41pm

re: #86 Kragar

Paul Ryan: The Generals Are Lying About Their Support For Obama’s Pentagon Budget

They're liars. That is what Generals do.
/

Lovely guy isn't he? He offered nothing but partisan bullshit to justify his claim. It needs to be said but a guy who is unwilling to look at the defense budget and is unwilling to even consider tax increases can't be called a deficit hawk. If he were a real deficit hawk, he'd tell Grover Norquist and his stupid no tax increase pledges that they don't accept reality but instead Ryan like pretty much every other elected member goes along because they're afraid of being labeled a tax increaser and having Norquist's disapproval. It's pathetic if not hilarious.

96 Targetpractice  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 12:37:47pm

re: #92 lawhawk

Generals lie? So, they're lying when they say that they don't want or need a tank that Congress has decided they should have, regardless of the cost?

The Army's looking to a new generation tank to replace/update the Abrams, but the tank manufacturer - General Dynamics - has lobbied Congress into extending the refurb run to keep the factory line running. That's a cost that the Pentagon can't afford at a time when they're trying to cut their budget and take into account the potential automatic 10% cuts enacted by Congress earlier this year unless Congress could come up with even bigger cuts.

So, apparently Ike wasn't lying when he warned us about the military-industrial complex all those decades ago, huh?

97 Gus  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 12:37:49pm

re: #92 lawhawk

Generals lie? So, they're lying when they say that they don't want or need a tank that Congress has decided they should have, regardless of the cost?

The Army's looking to a new generation tank to replace/update the Abrams, but the tank manufacturer - General Dynamics - has lobbied Congress into extending the refurb run to keep the factory line running. That's a cost that the Pentagon can't afford at a time when they're trying to cut their budget and take into account the potential automatic 10% cuts enacted by Congress earlier this year unless Congress could come up with even bigger cuts.

The revolving door of generals/admirals and the defense industry is very real.

98 HappyWarrior  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 12:40:55pm

re: #96 Targetpractice

So, apparently Ike wasn't lying when he warned us about the military-industrial complex all those decades ago, huh?

Probably one of Ike's more wiser moments. Very much akin to when he realized that a weak social net is not good for society. Republicans say we can't cut the defense budget. Well Eisenhower did that in the 50's right in the early years of the Cold War. We don't need blanket cuts on defense but we do need smart cuts and that's what people like General Dempsey and the others have been trying to say but the idiot Congressional Republicans who are tied to the business of war want no part in that.

99 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 12:41:23pm

Worth noting: Stockman's wife, Jennifer Blei Stockman, is a chair-person emeritus of the Republican Majority for Choice.

The Republican Majority for Choice was renamed from the Republican Pro-Choice Coalition in 2004 after an American Viewpoint Poll commissioned by Republicans for Choice found that 73% of Republicans believe that the decision to have an abortion should be made by a woman and her doctor and not by the government.

This was obviously before the Tea Party/religious right crazy coup. The figures would almost certainly not be the same today: The polled Republicans have probably not changed their minds, but they might have changed their affiliation.

100 Killgore Trout  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 12:42:07pm

re: #94 Gus

It's true though. Ecuador just granted "asylum" for Assange.

I still don't think they can get him out of the country. I guess he'll just live in the embassy

101 HappyWarrior  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 12:44:24pm

re: #99 Shiplord Kirel

Worth noting: Stockman's wife, Jennifer Blei Stockman, is a chair-person emeritus of the Republican Majority for Choice.

This was obviously before the Tea Party/religious right crazy coup. The figures would almost certainly not be the same today: The polled Republicans have probably not changed their minds, but they might have changed their affiliation.

I think pretty much all the Republican first ladies since Roe have been pro choice with the exception of perhaps Mrs. Reagan. I know Mrs. Ford was a huge supporter of the ERA. Betty Ford was great, her husband was decent too, they could use more Republicans like that today.

102 aagcobb  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 12:44:39pm

re: #51 Bubblehead II

Heh. Who is more in touch with the common man?

Obama Stops At Iowa State Fair, Buys Round Of Beers

From the pool report:

Finally Potus came over. "Hey everyone whose over 21, you gotta buy a beer!" Someone yelled, "is it on you?"

Potus said: "let me see what's in my wallet," and peered into his wallet.

The beer crowd, meanwhile, started chanting, "four more beers!"

Potus said, "I'll tell you what, except for Romney sign, I'll but beers for ten people."

Ryan just had hecklers escorted off.

Prez is cool. Romney v. Obama is like Potsie v. The Fonz.

103 Only The Lurker Knows  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 12:53:49pm

re: #100 Killgore Trout

I still don't think they can get him out of the country. I guess he'll just live in the embassy

Why not. The Brits can't touch him if he is in a diplomatic vehicle that then drops him off at the bottom of the stairs of a diplomatic courier plane.

104 lostlakehiker  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 2:53:34pm

re: #99 Shiplord Kirel

If 20 percent of them had changed their affiliation, the Democrats would have won the 2010 elections going away.

Pro-choice Republicans continue to vote Republican because they don't believe that abortion will be outlawed no matter what their party calls for in its platforms, and they think that other issues, where what will happen actually depends on who holds office, are more important.

Almost every voter has some point of disagreement with the party they back. Especially when the difference is about things that are pretty much symbolic, less ideological voters give those differences little weight.

105 Romantic Heretic  Tue, Aug 14, 2012 3:46:22pm

I'm going to disagree with Stockman about sales taxes being efficient. They're inefficient as hell since they turn every small business into tax collectors. This wastes their time when they could be doing business. Sales taxes are also highly regressive as they fall heaviest on those at the middle to lower end of the wealth spectrum.

Although he's also right about the big banks being semi-wards of the state I also don't think there's much choice. All the major banks failing would be really, really bad for the country. What would work best regulation with upper employees of the banks getting to spend twenty years in jail with a psychopathic cellmate. That happens a dozen times, the banks would behave themselves.


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