President of NOM Tries to Capitalize on Shooting Incident, Demands Free Pass on Hate

No, I won’t stop calling out haters
Wingnuts • Views: 33,402

The president of the anti-gay National Organization for Marriage wasted no time capitalizing on the Family Research Council shooting incident, attempting to make it illegitimate to refer to groups like his as “hate groups:” Shooting Spurs Heated Debate on Gay Rights, ‘Hate Group’ Label.

Brian Brown, the president of NOM, pointed to a recent blog post by the Human Rights Campaign (HRC), one of the largest gay-rights groups in the country. The post, “Paul Ryan Speaking at Hate Group’s Annual Conference,” called attention to the vice presidential candidate’s scheduled appearance at the FRC’s national summit next month.

“Today’s attack is the clearest sign we’ve seen that labeling pro-marriage groups as ‘hateful’ must end,” Brown said in a statement issued following the shooting.

So just for the record, the shooting attack at the Family Research Council is awful, and I totally condemn it without reservation. I couldn’t possibly disagree with the FRC more, but violence is no answer to what they’re doing; in fact, as you can see, it only gives them an excuse to play victim.

Nevertheless, make no mistake: the Family Research Council is, and remains, a far right hate group, trafficking in bigotry and religious fanaticism in order to deprive gay people of human rights. “Hate group” is the correct term for what they are, and no one should stop referring to them as such.

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690 comments
1 calochortus  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 6:15:45pm

So any time anyone commits a crime against someone, that makes the victim a saint?

2 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 6:17:06pm

Good grief. Irrationality squared.

Victims, they are the real victims.

3 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 6:20:18pm

re: #2 Stanley Sea

Good grief. Irrationality squared.

Victims, they are the real victims.

Martyrs!!!

4 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 6:20:38pm

Pro marriage means being pro gay marriage too. Otherwise you're just half assing it.

5 aagcobb  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 6:24:12pm

I agree, lets dial back the hate. You first.

6 Gus  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 6:24:45pm

Turds.

7 Belafon  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 6:26:17pm

This is obviously the first time in the last 30 years that an American has attacked another American for political reasons. Oklahoma City, Gabby Giffords, the shooting at the Dark Knight Rises, the shooting near Texas A&M were all done by psychos with no agenda.

8 researchok  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 6:27:34pm

It would be nice if NOM made news by offering best wishes to the victim and his family.

Like these folks;

23 gay rights leaders condemn Family Research Council shooting

“We were saddened to hear news of the shooting this morning at the offices of the Family Research Council. Our hearts go out to the shooting victim, his family, and his co-workers,” said the leaders in a statement Wednesday afternoon, hours after the shooting took place.

9 engineer cat  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 6:28:41pm

National Organization for Marriage

an admirable concept, but it will never catch on

10 austin_blue  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 6:28:43pm

re: #8 researchok

It would be nice if NOM made news by offering best wishes to the victim and his family.

Like these folks;

23 gay rights leaders condemn Family Research Council shooting

But, but...

(splutter)

11 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 6:32:42pm

Intensity is inversely proportional to the square of the distance.

12 Cap'n Magic  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 6:34:38pm

At least with the more militant strain of Islamists, they walk the talk: I can count on one hand the number of militant Christian martyrs in the last 10+ years-Islam? Hundreds, if not thousands. The fact that Christianists don't accept martyrdom (let alone willingly) shows just how much faith these apologists have-none. They're nothing more than Neo-Pharisees. After all, would Jesus wear a Rolex on his TV show?

13 researchok  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 6:35:27pm

...

14 Only The Lurker Knows  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 6:36:30pm

NOM isn't the only one.

15 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 6:36:57pm

re: #11 ggt

Intensity is inversely proportional to the square of the distance.

Only with point sources.

16 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 6:37:47pm

Every time I see NOM I think

[Link: cheezburger.com...]

17 Only The Lurker Knows  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 6:38:28pm

Bbiaw. Need to take 10 before I totally blow a gasket.

18 researchok  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 6:39:10pm

re: #16 Daniel Ballard

You need to get out more.

And leave the tablet at home.
//

19 MittDoesNotCompute  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 6:40:42pm

re: #12 Cap'n Magic

At least with the more militant strain of Islamists, they walk the talk: I can count on one hand the number of militant Christian martyrs in the last 10+ years-Islam? Hundreds, if not thousands. The fact that Christianists don't accept martyrdom (let alone willingly) shows just how much faith these apologists have-none. They're nothing more than Neo-Pharisees. After all, would Jesus wear a Rolex on his TV show?

Nice Ray Stevens reference there...

20 The Ghost of a Flea  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 6:40:50pm

re: #13 researchok

According to NOM, the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) is at fault for today's shooting at the FRC.

You just can't make this stuff up.

All we want is to want to legally discriminate against, and abhor as immoral and demoniac, people that we dislike. And criminalize their consensual sexual behaviors. And "fix" them with electroshock and dubious shame-based "therapies" administered by guys who periodically molest their subjects.

Were it not for the SPLC labelling us a "hate group," who could possibly object to our positions?

21 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 6:41:12pm

Since I'm sadly absent from the bottom comments list I'll go ahead and say this...
I agree with the designation as a hate group. Hate groups are real and deserve to be called out as such. Just yesterday I called Mondoweiss a hate blog, the description fits.
The saddest element in this case is this guy seemed to be making a statement about chicken sandwiches. It almost got people killed over chicken sandwiches. Hate is one thing but the real problem comes from fear. Once people become convinced that elections are going to be stolen, theocracy installed, gays rounded up, then bad things happen. It's insecurity and fear that drives this kind of action. Even here on LGF we had people postulating that chicken restaurants could be denied business licences because the politics of the owners could be dangerous to local communities. There is no danger from chicken sandwich sellers. There is no danger from the Klan. There is no danger from burning a flag or a quran. Once you start taking the attitude of showing no tolerance for the intolerant you become the latter, not the former.
All this over chicken sandwiches.

22 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 6:41:15pm

Sorry to go OT so early, but:

Britain threatens to storm Ecuadorian embassy to get Assange

I'm no fan of Assange, but how is this even remotely a non-crazy idea? If Russia, say, decided to raid the US embassy to haul out some guy who pissed off Putin, wouldn't that more or less be considered an act of war? I don't get it.

23 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 6:41:31pm

re: #15 goddamnedfrank

Only with point sources.

Yes, I am learning all that.

24 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 6:41:33pm

2011: "How dare Obama call for an end to 'violent rhetoric'?! We have a right to free speech! He has no right to tell us what we can and can't say!!"

2012: "The Left and it's hateful rhetoric is to blame for this shooting! It needs to stop immediately!!"

25 calochortus  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 6:41:46pm

Why are all these " we're on God's side" folks so likely to feel victimized? Either their faith is weak, or, well, I can't think of another good reason.

26 Gus  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 6:42:42pm

re: #22 What Would Spalding Gray Do?

Sorry to go OT so early, but:

Britain threatens to storm Ecuadorian embassy to get Assange

I'm no fan of Assange, but how is this even remotely a non-crazy idea? If Russia, say, decided to raid the US embassy to haul out some guy who pissed off Putin, wouldn't that more or less be considered an act of war? I don't get it.

Not me. I wish them luck.

27 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 6:42:58pm

re: #21 Killgore Trout

Since I'm sadly absent from the bottom comments list I'll go ahead and say this...
I agree with the designation as a hate group. Hate groups are real and deserve to be called out as such. Just yesterday I called Mondoweiss a hate blog, the description fits.
The saddest element in this case is this guy seemed to be making a statement about chicken sandwiches. It almost got people killed over chicken sandwiches. Hate is one thing but the real problem comes from fear. Once people become convinced that elections are going to be stolen, theocracy installed, gays rounded up, then bad things happen. It's insecurity and fear that drives this kind of action. Even here on LGF we had people postulating that chicken restaurants could be denied business licences because the politics of the owners could be dangerous to local communities. There is no danger from chicken sandwich sellers. There is no danger from the Klan. There is no danger from burning a flag or a quran. Once you start taking the attitude of showing no tolerance for the intolerant you become the latter, not the former.
All this over chicken sandwiches.

The only thing we have to fear is fear itself . . .

I personally don't fear chicken sandwiches --I'm a vegetarian

speaking of which--is FBV around?

28 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 6:43:39pm

re: #22 What Would Spalding Gray Do?

Sorry to go OT so early, but:

Britain threatens to storm Ecuadorian embassy to get Assange

I'm no fan of Assange, but how is this even remotely a non-crazy idea? If Russia, say, decided to raid the US embassy to haul out some guy who pissed off Putin, wouldn't that more or less be considered an act of war? I don't get it.

Last I checked, embassies are sovereign soil of the nations who run them. If the Brits bust in there in order to haul Assange out, they will essentially be declaring war on Ecuador.

29 The Ghost of a Flea  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 6:43:42pm

re: #21 Killgore Trout

Since I'm sadly absent from the bottom comments list I'll go ahead and say this...
I agree with the designation as a hate group. Hate groups are real and deserve to be called out as such. Just yesterday I called Mondoweiss a hate blog, the description fits.
The saddest element in this case is this guy seemed to be making a statement about chicken sandwiches. It almost got people killed over chicken sandwiches. Hate is one thing but the real problem comes from fear. Once people become convinced that elections are going to be stolen, theocracy installed, gays rounded up, then bad things happen. It's insecurity and fear that drives this kind of action. Even here on LGF we had people postulating that chicken restaurants could be denied business licences because the politics of the owners could be dangerous to local communities. There is no danger from chicken sandwich sellers. There is no danger from the Klan. There is no danger from burning a flag or a quran. Once you start taking the attitude of showing no tolerance for the intolerant you become the latter, not the former.
All this over chicken sandwiches.

No danger from the Klan?

You're stupid.

30 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 6:43:45pm

re: #22 What Would Spalding Gray Do?

Sorry to go OT so early, but:

Britain threatens to storm Ecuadorian embassy to get Assange

I'm no fan of Assange, but how is this even remotely a non-crazy idea? If Russia, say, decided to raid the US embassy to haul out some guy who pissed off Putin, wouldn't that more or less be considered an act of war? I don't get it.

Sensationalist headline and shitty reporting. Check BBC, I think they have a better article on it.

31 Gus  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 6:44:00pm

Just a reminder. Assange was accused of SEXUAL ASSAULT.

32 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 6:44:23pm

re: #26 Gus

This is "storming"?!?

"Under British law we can give them a week's notice before entering the premises and the embassy will no longer have diplomatic protection," a Foreign Office spokesman said.

Hyperbolic commenter is hyperbolic.

33 calochortus  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 6:44:36pm

re: #21 Killgore Trout

I'll disagree with this part:

There is no danger from chicken sandwich sellers. There is no danger from the Klan. There is no danger from burning a flag or a quran.

As long as there are people who will respond violently to those actions there is a danger. There shouldn't be a danger, but there is.

34 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 6:44:59pm

re: #27 ggt

speaking of which--is FBV around?

I haven't seen him for quite some time. I hope he's eating cake wherever he is.

35 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 6:45:07pm

re: #12 Cap'n Magic

At least with the more militant strain of Islamists, they walk the talk: I can count on one hand the number of militant Christian martyrs in the last 10+ years-Islam? Hundreds, if not thousands. The fact that Christianists don't accept martyrdom (let alone willingly) shows just how much faith these apologists have-none. They're nothing more than Neo-Pharisees. After all, would Jesus wear a Rolex on his TV show?

The early Irish church, frustrated at the lack of martyrdom opportunities in Ireland, created the concept of 'the white martyrdom', which could be achieved through asceticism, exile, or other extraordinary activities in the faith.

The equivalent for the modern American wingnut is eating at Chick-Fil-A.

Meanwhile, you have people like Yousef Nadarkhani, who are actually suffering for their faith, but never mind him.

36 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 6:46:45pm

re: #33 calochortus

I'll disagree with this part:

As long as there are people who will respond violently to those actions there is a danger. There shouldn't be a danger, but there is.

And instead of responding to the restaurants with a non-violent boycott or passing out fliers to potential customers, what happened? We gave groups like NOM the high ground by having governors declare openly that they would do everything they could to block these restaurants while media personalities clutched their pearls at what it could mean if CFA set up shop in LGBT-friendly towns.

37 jamesfirecat  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 6:47:41pm

I'll be happy to do it, just as soon as the right wing realizes that the shooting of Doctor Tiller is the clearest sign we’ve seen that labeling abortion providers as ‘murders’ must end.

I can wait...

38 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 6:47:53pm

re: #33 calochortus

I'll disagree with this part:

As long as there are people who will respond violently to those actions there is a danger. There shouldn't be a danger, but there is.

I think what Killgore is saying is like when the market was in uproar a while back. Congress had to vote to do something before people started freaking out and rushing the banks. The market itself would have sorted things out in in time, but PEOPLE'S EMOTIONS wouldn't allow them to wait it out--they needed action.

So, it's the emotions that spurn irrational action that are the danger --much more than any perceived threat.

I'd recommend meds . . .

That said, I have a very hard time not being intolerant of the Klan. But I was trying to focus on Killgore's point.

39 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 6:47:57pm

re: #35 SanFranciscoZionist

The early Irish church, frustrated at the lack of martyrdom opportunities in Ireland, created the concept of 'the white martyrdom', which could be achieved through asceticism, exile, or other extraordinary activities in the faith.

The equivalent for the modern American wingnut is eating at Chick-Fil-A.

Meanwhile, you have people like Yousef Nadarkhani, who are actually suffering for their faith, but never mind him.

There are Christians in China, Lebanon, and Egypt who could show Bryan Fischer what it means to suffer for Christ.

40 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 6:48:58pm

re: #33 calochortus

I'll disagree with this part:

As long as there are people who will respond violently to those actions there is a danger. There shouldn't be a danger, but there is.

Ok, that's a good point. There is danger in burning a flag or publishing a cartoon of the prophet Mo. Some people will kill you for that shit.

41 funky chicken  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 6:49:08pm

re: #21 Killgore Trout

There is no danger from the Klan.

Maybe in Portland, but we just had a couple a skinhead losers in Tulsa driving around shooting black folks a couple of months ago.

42 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 6:49:51pm

The klan was thrown in to provoke. Come on people, I read this blog enough to see the blatant whistles.

Yeah, the klan is nothing to fear.

43 funky chicken  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 6:50:31pm

re: #31 Gus

Just a reminder. Assange was accused of SEXUAL ASSAULT.

So let him move to Ecuador, if they are willing to take the putz.

44 Gus  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 6:50:31pm

re: #32 Daniel Ballard

This is "storming"?!?

"Under British law we can give them a week's notice before entering the premises and the embassy will no longer have diplomatic protection," a Foreign Office spokesman said.

Hyperbolic commenter is hyperbolic.

Gets even dumber:

What does Thatcher's England have to do with this?

45 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 6:50:41pm

re: #31 Gus

Just a reminder. Assange was accused of SEXUAL ASSAULT.

I'd like to see similar action for all perpetrators of sexual assault --priority those against children. Like the kiddy pimps we hear about in Southeast Asia and other places. I don't see the UN or any Western Country wiling to use military force in these situations.

But, as he, himself, keeps telling us --Assange is *special*.

46 researchok  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 6:51:22pm

re: #44 Gus

Lots of ADD going around.

47 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 6:51:31pm

re: #21 Killgore Trout

It's insecurity and fear that drives this kind of action. Even here on LGF we had people postulating that chicken restaurants could be denied business licences because the politics of the owners could be dangerous to local communities.

Your reading comprehension really does suck. The argument was that communities do in fact deny permits to new chain locations all the time due to local sensitivities, not because of any danger. The google is replete with examples of towns denying permits for new locations to Starbucks, Walmart, gun shops, pet stores, taverns, strip clubs and adult bookstores to preserve a character that the elected officials have decided is important.

48 calochortus  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 6:51:38pm

re: #38 ggt

Yeah, I understand that. Theoretically there is no direct harm from words, no matter how hateful. In reality, there is damage-psychologically to someone who is told they're no good, or in encouraging someone to physically harm the object of their derision. Yes, it's all human emotion that causes the problem, but we are, in fact, human so we're going to have those emotions.
Any mom (or dad) can tell stories of one kid goading another into hitting them and then yelling "Mom! He hit me!"

49 Gus  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 6:52:39pm

re: #45 ggt

I'd like to see similar action for all perpetrators of sexual assault --priority those against children. Like the kiddy pimps we hear about in Southeast Asia and other places. I don't see the UN or any Western Country wiling to use military force in these situations.

But, as he, himself, keeps telling us --Assange is *special*.

White male privilege.

50 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 6:53:43pm

re: #48 calochortus

Yeah, I understand that. Theoretically there is no direct harm from words, no matter how hateful. In reality, there is damage-psychologically to someone who is told they're no good, or in encouraging someone to physically harm the object of their derision. Yes, it's all human emotion that causes the problem, but we are, in fact, human so we're going to have those emotions.
Any mom (or dad) can tell stories of one kid goading another into hitting them and then yelling "Mom! He hit me!"

We are feeling creatures that think,

not the other way around, as many people seem to view it.

Emotions seem to take priority --marketing people, at least, have learned that.

51 calochortus  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 6:53:59pm

re: #47 goddamnedfrank

Your reading comprehension really does suck. The argument was that communities do in fact deny permits to new chain locations all the time due to local sensitivities, not because of any danger. The google is replete with examples of towns denying permits for new locations to Starbucks, Walmart, gun shops, pet stores, taverns, strip clubs and adult bookstores to preserve a character that the elected officials have decided is important.

I'm going to stick up for Killgore here-it is not generally appropriate for a community to ban a fast food franchise because the owner has certain political beliefs.

52 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 6:54:03pm

re: #49 Gus

White male privilege.

Teutonic White Male Privilege . . .

53 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 6:54:22pm

re: #51 calochortus

I'm going to stick up for Killgore here-it is not generally appropriate for a community to ban a fast food franchise because the owner has certain political beliefs.

Let the market determine it . . .

54 Gus  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 6:54:23pm

re: #52 ggt

Teutonic White Male Privilege . . .

Anglo-Saxon.

//

55 MittDoesNotCompute  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 6:54:34pm

re: #21 Killgore Trout

Since I'm sadly absent from the bottom comments list I'll go ahead and say this...
I agree with the designation as a hate group. Hate groups are real and deserve to be called out as such. Just yesterday I called Mondoweiss a hate blog, the description fits.
The saddest element in this case is this guy seemed to be making a statement about chicken sandwiches. It almost got people killed over chicken sandwiches. Hate is one thing but the real problem comes from fear. Once people become convinced that elections are going to be stolen, theocracy installed, gays rounded up, then bad things happen. It's insecurity and fear that drives this kind of action. Even here on LGF we had people postulating that chicken restaurants could be denied business licences because the politics of the owners could be dangerous to local communities. There is no danger from chicken sandwich sellers. There is no danger from the Klan. There is no danger from burning a flag or a quran. Once you start taking the attitude of showing no tolerance for the intolerant you become the latter, not the former.
All this over chicken sandwiches.

Not to nitpick, but there's thousands of blacks and other minorities over the past century or more that would strongly disagree with that statement. Even though the Klan (in name) has largely been broken, there's a bunch of wannabes that are just as bad; just see Stormfront or any other assorted hate sites.

56 calochortus  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 6:55:05pm

re: #50 ggt

We are feeling creatures that think,

not the other way around, as many people seem to view it.

Emotions seem to take priority --marketing people, at least, have learned that.

Apparently we tend to make a decision and then build a logical case to support what was an emotional choice. All unbeknownst to us.

57 gwangung  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 6:55:34pm

re: #51 calochortus

I'm going to stick up for Killgore here-it is not generally appropriate for a community to ban a fast food franchise because the owner has certain political beliefs.

However, since the dispute apparently began as a zoning dispute and the "political" beliefs brought in later, I don't think it's a relevant comment.

58 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 6:55:46pm

re: #56 calochortus

Apparently we tend to make a decision and then build a logical case to support what was an emotional choice. All unbeknownst to us.

I will add that I think Fox Network has figured it out as well. What you said seems to be exactly what they do.

59 Lidane  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 6:55:59pm

re: #28 Targetpractice

Last I checked, embassies are sovereign soil of the nations who run them. If the Brits bust in there in order to haul Assange out, they will essentially be declaring war on Ecuador.

That's what I was thinking.

I don't like Assange. I saw a documentary on WikiLeaks at SXSW and walked out of it convinced the guy is a complete sociopath, and that whatever good intentions he claims to have are canceled out by his ego and his total disregard for the real world consequences of his actions. Still, embassies are sovereign soil. Sending in troops to an embassy to get him would be a definite act of aggression against Ecuador.

60 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 6:56:16pm

re: #44 Gus

Gets even dumber:

[Embedded content]

What does Thatcher's England have to do with this?

Gah. My patience for this kind of crap is already about gone from the election rhetoric and propaganda. I think I'll go out on the patio for a smoke.

61 calochortus  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 6:56:40pm

re: #58 ggt

I will add that I think Fox Network has figured it out as well. What you said seems to be exactly what they do.

I have read that we all do that. It's why it pays to stop and examine one's beliefs every so often.

62 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 6:57:01pm
63 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 6:57:15pm

re: #61 calochortus

I have read that we all do that. It's why it pays to stop and examine one's beliefs every so often.

daily . . .

part of the whole regime of trying to remain functional within my chosen society.

64 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 6:57:28pm

The reason Chick-fil-a should be viewed with suspicion is that its board decided to pierce the corporate veil and make donations to anti-gay groups that were written from the company checkbook. That raises legitimate questions in any community that has enacted legislation safeguarding equal rights in employment and public accommodation that includes sexual orientation as a protected class. This isn't to say that Chick-fil-a can't run a business that adheres to such local ordinances, but that there is a real reason not to simply give them the benefit of the doubt.

65 Lidane  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 6:57:59pm

re: #21 Killgore Trout

There is no danger from burning a flag or a quran.

O RLY? I seem to recall a bunch of American generals and military leaders asking those nutjobs in Florida not to burn a Qu'ran because it would have real consequences for our troops on the ground in Iraq and Afghanistan.

66 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 6:58:23pm

re: #57 gwangung

However, since the dispute apparently began as a zoning dispute and the "political" beliefs brought in later, I don't think it's a relevant comment.

If they won't let strip clubs in, they can deny anyone they want. To keep it fair. All about the "morals" of the community.

Goes both ways.

67 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 6:58:51pm

re: #21 Killgore Trout

Since I'm sadly absent from the bottom comments list I'll go ahead and say this...
I agree with the designation as a hate group. Hate groups are real and deserve to be called out as such. Just yesterday I called Mondoweiss a hate blog, the description fits.
The saddest element in this case is this guy seemed to be making a statement about chicken sandwiches. It almost got people killed over chicken sandwiches. Hate is one thing but the real problem comes from fear. Once people become convinced that elections are going to be stolen, theocracy installed, gays rounded up, then bad things happen. It's insecurity and fear that drives this kind of action. Even here on LGF we had people postulating that chicken restaurants could be denied business licences because the politics of the owners could be dangerous to local communities. There is no danger from chicken sandwich sellers. There is no danger from the Klan. There is no danger from burning a flag or a quran. Once you start taking the attitude of showing no tolerance for the intolerant you become the latter, not the former.
All this over chicken sandwiches.

'Showing no tolerance for the intolerant'?

I'm sorry. I agree with you to an extent about the hyperbolic rage we get ourselves worked into about various events and issues, but:

1. I literally do not remember the last time something like this happened at a so-con organization. If this is what it seems--a politically motivated attack by someone angered by this org's politics--it's a zebra. An albino zebra. Compared to, say, the litany of attacks on abortion providers...

2. The defenders of chicken sandwiches are making this seem a whole fucking lot bigger than it was. People said they wouldn't eat Chick-Fil-A, and a lot of nonviolent, goofy crap about chicken sandwiches got mailed around on Facebook, and there was one graffiti episode and kiss-in, and then a couple of mayors shot off at the mouth and it was suddenly the BIGGEST THREAT TO CIVIL RIGHTS EVAH. No. It wasn't. It's a fucking chicken sandwich boycott. This guy may have been sent over the edge by a lot of rhetoric about so-cons, but I'm going to guess the chicken sandwiches weren't the triggering episode.

3. Fuck the intolerant. There is no virtue in pretending that it's moral for people to use their money to hurt others. And there's no virtue in pretending that their right to do business and their right to spend their money as they please is being infringed on if I don't buy their crappy chicken sandwiches.

68 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 6:59:56pm

re: #65 Lidane

O RLY? I seem to recall a bunch of American generals and military leaders asking those nutjobs in Florida not to burn a Qu'ran because it would have real consequences for our troops on the ground in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Seriously, it's the provoke for attention of the night. Couple of paragraphs before you get to the klan.

69 calochortus  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 6:59:57pm

re: #64 goddamnedfrank

I'm perfectly happy not to give them the benefit of the doubt. I have no personal experience with them, but I gather they don't treat women very well, and have some pretty odd requirements for franchisees being Christians. The right Christians.

70 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:00:13pm

re: #51 calochortus

I'm going to stick up for Killgore here-it is not generally appropriate for a community to ban a fast food franchise because the owner has certain political beliefs.

Really? I'm pretty sure that gun shop owners, strip club and adult bookstore proprietors all have strong political beliefs regarding the Constitutionally protected status of their respective businesses. Yet those opinions frequently fail to protect them from local sensitivities.

71 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:00:20pm

re: #64 goddamnedfrank

The reason Chick-fil-a should be viewed with suspicion is that its board decided to pierce the corporate veil and make donations to anti-gay groups that were written from the company checkbook. That raises legitimate questions in any community that has enacted legislation safeguarding equal rights in employment and public accommodation that includes sexual orientation as a protected class. This isn't to say that Chick-fil-a can't run a business that adheres to such local ordinances, but that there is a real reason not to simply give them the benefit of the doubt.

I agree, but it seems a drop in the bucket to the assets/land holdings/and other shenanigans corporations and Universities have on their balance books. And it is a drop that affects independent small business people.

Perhaps we should focus on 501(c)3's and NGO's that sponsor hate? would that be more productive?

72 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:01:27pm

re: #69 calochortus

I'm perfectly happy not to give them the benefit of the doubt. I have no personal experience with them, but I gather they don't treat women very well, and have some pretty odd requirements for franchisees being Christians. The right Christians.

And married. Must be married.

73 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:01:37pm

re: #22 What Would Spalding Gray Do?

Sorry to go OT so early, but:

Britain threatens to storm Ecuadorian embassy to get Assange

I'm no fan of Assange, but how is this even remotely a non-crazy idea? If Russia, say, decided to raid the US embassy to haul out some guy who pissed off Putin, wouldn't that more or less be considered an act of war? I don't get it.

The nations, not so blest as thee,
Must, in their turns, to tyrants fall;
While thou shalt flourish great and free,
The dread and envy of them all.
"Rule, Britannia! rule the waves:
"Britons never will be slaves."

The U.K. may look calm and rational and modern and hip and all that, but there's a little bit of Empire still lodged in the braincore somewhere.

Or, they're bluffing.

74 Gus  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:01:40pm

re: #62 Stanley Sea

[Embedded content]

I seriously doubt we'll find unbiased reporting about Assange at The Guardian.

75 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:02:01pm

re: #72 Stanley Sea

And married. Must be married.

keeping the rent boys and mistress secret is ok then?

76 Gus  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:02:21pm

Roman Polanski... (cough)

77 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:02:33pm

re: #31 Gus

Just a reminder. Assange was accused of SEXUAL ASSAULT.

Which he may or may not be charged with if returned to Sweden. I kind of doubt they would have run him to the ends of the earth on those charges if it hadn't been for all them other charges flying in from everywhere.

78 calochortus  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:03:55pm

re: #70 goddamnedfrank

Really? I'm pretty sure that gun shop owners, strip club and adult bookstore proprietors all have strong political beliefs regarding the Constitutionally protected status of their respective businesses. Yet those opinions frequently fail to protect them from local sensitivities.

I don't recall the specifics of the zoning issues, but if they weren't letting other fast food restaurants locate there, that's fine. When the politicians got involved, it was definitely more of a "we don't want their kind here" and that really isn't OK.

79 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:04:02pm

re: #42 Stanley Sea

The klan was thrown in to provoke. Come on people, I read this blog enough to see the blatant whistles.

Yeah, the klan is nothing to fear.

Well, I'm personally not afraid of them, largely because they don't operate in this neighborhood.

/

80 Gus  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:04:59pm

Or maybe not. So, back to The Guardian...

Julian Assange asylum move is 'a tragedy' for his accusers, says lawyer
Lawyer representing two women who accuse WikiLeaks founder of sexual assault says he still expects extradition to go ahead

Julian Assange's decision to seek asylum in Ecuador is "a tragedy" for the two women who have accused him of sexual assault in Sweden, their lawyer has said.

Claes Borgström, who represents the two unnamed women with whom the WikiLeaks founder had sexual relations in Stockholm in August 2010, told the Guardian the women were frustrated and disappointed by Assange's decision to seek asylum rather than face investigation in Sweden over claims of rape, sexual molestation and unlawful coercion.

"They are disappointed, but they are getting used to this by now," said Borgström, who has represented the women throughout Assange's sequence of appeals against extradition in the British courts.

Continues.

81 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:05:26pm

re: #49 Gus

White male privilege.

A special kind--the conceit of a white man who thinks that his body of work places him above the law.

He think's he's Victor Laszlo. He ain't.

82 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:06:07pm

re: #81 SanFranciscoZionist

A special kind--the conceit of a white man who thinks that his body of work places him above the law.

He think's he's Victor Laszlo. He ain't.

Assange is a weenie.

83 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:06:54pm

re: #51 calochortus

I'm going to stick up for Killgore here-it is not generally appropriate for a community to ban a fast food franchise because the owner has certain political beliefs.

Except that doesn't appear to be going anywhere. A couple of mayors who weren't actually threatened with Chick-Fil-A outlets ran their mouths. Would it be proper for them to ban Chick-Fil-A outlets if they had a chance? Probably not. But it was a symbolic gesture that took on huge proportions with people who couldn't stand how popular the boycott was getting.

84 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:08:08pm

re: #78 calochortus

I don't recall the specifics of the zoning issues, but they weren't letting other fast food restaurants locate there, that's fine. When the politicians got involved, it was definitely more of a "we don't want their kind here" and that really isn't OK.

Again, when a company like Chick-fil-a donates heavily to anti-gay groups there's a real reason for locales that treat sexual orientation as a protected class under their equal rights laws to become suspicious. The board of Chick-fil-a owns the fact that they purposefully conflated their bigoted beliefs with their corporate identity and instead of writing checks from their personal accounts decided to use the company itself as a voice for their hate. That's what separates them from any other fast food chain out there.

85 calochortus  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:08:13pm

re: #83 SanFranciscoZionist

It's summer. We were bored...

86 Gus  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:08:54pm

re: #82 ggt

Assange is a weenie.

I bet he has sweaty palms.

87 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:09:06pm

re: #69 calochortus

I'm perfectly happy not to give them the benefit of the doubt. I have no personal experience with them, but I gather they don't treat women very well, and have some pretty odd requirements for franchisees being Christians. The right Christians.

They don't have to be Christians, they just have to be willing to pray a lot in Christian services during training, and be pressured to go to Christian couples counseling.

It's a very odd and iffy list of requirements.

88 calochortus  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:09:28pm

re: #84 goddamnedfrank

Again, when a company like Chick-fil-a donates heavily to anti-gay groups there's a real reason for locales that treat sexual orientation as a protected class under their equal rights laws to become suspicious. The board of Chick-fil-a owns the fact that they purposefully conflated their bigoted beliefs with their corporate identity and instead of writing checks from their personal accounts decided to use the company itself as a voice for their hate. That's what separates them from any other fast food chain out there.

So, should some conservative town be allowed to block permits for, say, Ben and Jerry?

89 Decatur Deb  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:09:59pm

re: #79 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, I'm personally not afraid of them, largely because they don't operate in this neighborhood.

/

I can limp to their nearest above-ground HQ. They are sleeping, fitfully.

90 b_sharp  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:10:31pm

Well, I've gone two days without my meds and I haven't beat the crap out of anybody.

91 calochortus  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:11:11pm

re: #90 b_sharp

Well, I've gone two days without my meds and I haven't beat the crap out of anybody.

Is that good or bad?

92 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:14:31pm

re: #88 calochortus

So, should some conservative town be allowed to block permits for, say, Ben and Jerry?

Sure. Why not? Ain't no Constitutional right to open up a business just wherever you please. Remember Sambo's?

Several of the restaurants were opened as or renamed to "The Jolly Tiger" in locations where the local community passed resolutions forbidding the use of the original name or refused to grant the chain permits.

93 Gus  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:15:14pm

Oh never mind. This is from that last Guardian article I linked...

Brita Sundberg-Weitman, a former head judge at a district court in Solna, a Stockholm suburb, who gave evidence in Assange's appeal against extradition in the UK courts, said she feared Assange's decision to seek refuge in Ecuador was misguided.

"I can understand that Assange is afraid of being sent from Sweden to the US, but I am not sure it will turn out well for him," she said.

"I don't know what his situation would be if he really landed in Ecuador and whether he would be safe. If you think of the policy of the Obama administration to kill whoever the president considers a terrorist wherever they are in the world."

Weirdos.

94 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:17:34pm

re: #93 Gus

Oh never mind. This is from that last Guardian article I linked...

Weirdos.

Assange is really insulated in that bubble, feeding on his fears and consuming tons of bad advice. He should have manned up and gone back to Sweden on his own two years ago.

95 calochortus  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:18:37pm

re: #92 goddamnedfrank

Sure. Why not? Ain't no Constitutional right to open up a business just wherever you please. Remember Sambo's?

I'd say there is a difference between a name that is rightly or wrongly seen as offensive. (Little Black Sambo was Indian. There are no tigers in Africa. And he was smart, but that is all beside the point.) I would prefer to simply not patronize companies that support causes I don't like.

96 b_sharp  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:18:58pm

re: #61 calochortus

I have read that we all do that. It's why it pays to stop and examine one's beliefs every so often.

The right understands this on a visceral level so they convince others through emotional arguments, the left, or that portion of the left who identify as members of reality based society (that doesn't include woo and homeopaths and anti-vaxers), tend to try to convince others through logic and facts.

97 Digital Display  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:19:10pm

Good Lord.. I just heard this song for the first time tonight..Man I heard the words and thought it was written about me..Then watched the video and thought not so much..I don't think they realize what they have done.
My new favorite song: Down in the Valley

Youtube Video
98 gwangung  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:19:11pm

re: #78 calochortus

I don't recall the specifics of the zoning issues, but if they weren't letting other fast food restaurants locate there, that's fine. When the politicians got involved, it was definitely more of a "we don't want their kind here" and that really isn't OK.

The exact zoning dispute was that Chik-Fil-A wanted to build a large parking lot for customers; the town would not allow a variance for that, to preserve a pedestrian oriented traffic pattern. The store itself was fine; the parking lot was not.

Oh, and the refusal to sign an anti-discrimination pledge was also part of this.

99 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:20:40pm

i'm not getting the whole polarization thingy with light.

why vertical not horizontal for glare off the lake?

100 b_sharp  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:20:46pm

re: #91 calochortus

Is that good or bad?

Good, sort of. I'm trying to find something out about myself.

101 Achilles Tang  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:20:56pm

In my slumming lately, I have been somewhat surprised (in spite of obvious anti gay sentiments among self declared Christians) on their constant reference to "gay" (particularly Obama) in any context whether relevant or not, or simply as a very juvenile wink wink insult.

I can't help but suspect that a great many of these people are themselves closet gays, as we have seen with a number of previously rabidly anti gay politicians.

102 calochortus  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:21:27pm

re: #98 gwangung

Good to know.

103 calochortus  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:21:43pm

re: #100 b_sharp

Good, sort of. I'm trying to find something out about myself.

Good luck with it.

104 Gus  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:22:09pm

Hahahaha! MJayRosenberg blocked me. Loser.

105 Decatur Deb  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:22:49pm

re: #100 b_sharp

Good, sort of. I'm trying to find something out about myself.

I think it's traditional to lash yourself to a mast in such cases.

106 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:22:50pm

re: #104 Gus

Hahahaha! MJayRosenberg blocked me. Loser.

Welcome to the elite class of Tweeters Blocked By MJay

107 Kragar  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:23:07pm

When the NOM stops trying to prevent citizens from having the same rights as any other citizens just because of their beliefs, I'll stop calling them a hate group.

The offer is also open to the AFA, FRC, and a slew of other complete assholes.

Live your beliefs, stop trying to make other people live them for you.

108 Achilles Tang  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:23:40pm

re: #90 b_sharp

Well, I've gone two days without my meds and I haven't beat the crap out of anybody.

You? One of the most laid back people here. Remember, age and time cures many things (while it bring others).

109 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:24:27pm

re: #104 Gus

Hahahaha! MJayRosenberg blocked me. Loser.

Gulag!

110 andres  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:25:26pm

re: #36 Targetpractice

And instead of responding to the restaurants with a non-violent boycott or passing out fliers to potential customers, what happened? We gave groups like NOM the high ground by having governors declare openly that they would do everything they could to block these restaurants while media personalities clutched their pearls at what it could mean if CFA set up shop in LGBT-friendly towns.

Oh, come on. For reasons less than that towns have prevented business from establishing themselves.

Edit: Sorry for getting late here.

111 b_sharp  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:26:04pm

re: #103 calochortus

Good luck with it.

What are you trying to say? Are you saying I'm not capable of self inspection?

Alright, that's it, flying spaghetti monsters at 400 paces. Arm yourself.

112 b_sharp  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:26:26pm

re: #105 Decatur Deb

I think it's traditional to lash yourself to a mast in such cases.

I did, then I chewed through the rope.

113 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:26:28pm

re: #99 ggt

i'm not getting the whole polarization thingy with light.

why vertical not horizontal for glare off the lake?

The light reflecting off the lake is partially polarized parallel to the surface. You block the greatest amount of that reflected light by setting your optical filter vertical.

114 Gus  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:27:25pm

re: #106 Learned Mother of Zion

Welcome to the elite class of Tweeters Blocked By MJay

Let's see. Michael Moore, Glenn Greenwald, MJ Rosenberg, some other friend of Greenwald AND several folks from Breitbart. It's a motley crew of far-right and far-left weirdos.

115 calochortus  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:27:31pm

re: #111 b_sharp

What are you trying to say? Are you saying I'm not capable of self inspection?

Alright, that's it, flying spaghetti monsters at 400 paces. Arm yourself.

My lack of faith will have to be my shield.

116 Lidane  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:28:25pm

Another GOP campaign, another band writing a Cease & Desist letter:

Silversun Pickups Send Cease and Desist Letter to Romney Campaign

Silversun Pickups don't want Mitt Romney hitting the "Panic Switch."

The Los Angeles band's attorney issued a cease-and-desist on Wednesday over the Republican presidential candidate's use of the 2009 hit in recent campaign events.

"We don't like people going behind our backs, using our music without asking, and we don't like the Romney campaign," singer/guitarist Brian Aubert said in a release. "We're nice, approachable people. We won't bite. Unless you're Mitt Romney!"

The indie musician added that the group had been "very close to just letting this go because the irony was too good."

"While he is inadvertently playing a song that describes his whole campaign, we doubt that 'Panic Switch' really sends the message he intends," he said.

117 b_sharp  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:29:44pm

re: #108 Achilles Tang

You? One of the most laid back people here. Remember, age and time cures many things (while it bring others).

Part of the reason I'm laid back is the norepinephrine inhibition of my meds. I'm trying to find out if my meds are causing the periods of weakness and shakes I've been getting on an increasing frequency.

118 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:32:32pm

re: #101 Achilles Tang

In my slumming lately, I have been somewhat surprised (in spite of obvious anti gay sentiments among self declared Christians) on their constant reference to "gay" (particularly Obama) in any context whether relevant or not, or simply as a very juvenile wink wink insult.

I can't help but suspect that a great many of these people are themselves closet gays, as we have seen with a number of previously rabidly anti gay politicians.

Yes, I think you have that correct.

Another explanation given by the mother of a gay son is that she has noticed that other men automatically assume that the gay man is going to make a pass at them. Because either they are obviously "god's gift" or they assume the gay man has an uncontrolled sex drive comparible to theirs and is just not able to control it as well.

119 Cap'n Magic  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:35:02pm

re: #19 TedStriker

Comedians love to tell the truth-too bad for their audience, they never listen.

120 abolitionist  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:37:05pm

re: #99 ggt

i'm not getting the whole polarization thingy with light.

why vertical not horizontal for glare off the lake?

This may help: Brewster's angle

121 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:37:37pm

re: #117 b_sharp

Part of the reason I'm laid back is the norepinephrine inhibition of my meds. I'm trying to find out if my meds are causing the periods of weakness and shakes I've been getting on an increasing frequency.

could be --you are getting more juice than you are used to.

122 calochortus  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:37:47pm

re: #118 ggt

Yes, I think you have that correct.

Another explanation given by the mother of a gay son is that she has noticed that other men automatically assume that the gay man is going to make a pass at them. Because either they are obviously "god's gift" or they assume the gay man has an uncontrolled sex drive comparible to theirs and is just not able to control it as well.

That kind of guy may also not want to be on the receiving end of the way they themselves behave towards women.

123 Cap'n Magic  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:38:29pm

re: #35 SanFranciscoZionist

And its nonsense like that that needs to be fought tooth and nail, and that such nonsense NEVER happens in Federal Government. Sadly, I think its too little, too late....

124 dragonath  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:39:21pm

The hottest rain recorded in history

115 degrees!

125 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:40:53pm

re: #120 abolitionist

This may help: Brewster's angle

So the water acts to refract only part of the wavelength? the rest is reflected off instead off instead of passing thru the water?

126 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:41:50pm

re: #122 calochortus

That kind of guy may also not want to be on the receiving end of the way they themselves behave towards women.

WEll, they tend to be well --Mr. Romney. Perfectly controlled, behaving, following the rules --and mellowing with age.

127 austin_blue  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:43:20pm

re: #118 ggt

Yes, I think you have that correct.

Another explanation given by the mother of a gay son is that she has noticed that other men automatically assume that the gay man is going to make a pass at them. Because either they are obviously "god's gift" or they assume the gay man has an uncontrolled sex drive comparible to theirs and is just not able to control it as well.

Which is, obviously, bullshit. Why would a gay man hit on someone who doesn't find them sexually attractive? And if they were taking a flyer, why wouldn't they react as any guy who chats a woman up and she says "Get lost." does?.

The sad stories are the closeted gay men who are married to women (societal pressure!) and cruise park bathrooms during lunch hour.

128 calochortus  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:43:35pm

re: #126 ggt

I'm not sure I'm getting your meaning.

129 Only The Lurker Knows  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:43:56pm

re: #31 Gus

Just a reminder. Assange was accused of SEXUAL ASSAULT.

Yep. And how many other accused sexual predators have the Brits extradited just because there was a warrant out for them?.

This stinks worse than 3 day old fish, or Guests.

I am not a fan of Assange, in fact, he can burn in the proverbial hell for the shit he has done. But in this case, I think he has a point. The U.S. Government wants him and will do what ever it takes to get him. Even if it causes a major diplomatic incident for our Allies.

130 b_sharp  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:44:33pm

re: #121 ggt

could be --you are getting more juice than you are used to.

I had an episode today, but it seemed reduced in severity. It was happening every day so the next few days should tell me something.

131 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:44:34pm

re: #127 austin_blue

Which is, obviously, bullshit. Why would a gay man hit on someone who doesn't find them sexually attractive? And if they were taking a flyer, why wouldn't they react as any guy who chats a woman up and she says "Get lost." does?.

The sad stories are the closeted gay men who are married to women (societal pressure!) and cruise park bathrooms during lunch hour.

It says more about the homo-phobic than they likely realize.

132 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:45:18pm

re: #118 ggt

I've always figured that they're scared that gay men will treat them like they treat women...

133 Lidane  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:46:04pm

Heh. I never thought about it before, but yeah. Makes sense:

Image: lincoln.jpg

134 Gus  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:46:09pm

re: #129 Bubblehead II

Yep. And how many other accused sexual predators have the Brits extradited just because there was a warrant out for them?.

This stinks worse than 3 day old fish, or Guests.

I am not a fan of Assange, in fact, he can burn in the proverbial hell for the shit he has done. But in this case, I think he has a point. The U.S. Government wants him and will do what ever it takes to get him. Even if it causes a major diplomatic incident for our Allies.

No comment.

135 austin_blue  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:46:18pm

re: #124 dragonath

The hottest rain recorded in history

115 degrees!

Wow, check out the haboob on that chick:

[Link: www.wunderground.com...]

136 b_sharp  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:47:13pm

re: #127 austin_blue

Which is, obviously, bullshit. Why would a gay man hit on someone who doesn't find them sexually attractive? And if they were taking a flyer, why wouldn't they react as any guy who chats a woman up and she says "Get lost." does?.

The sad stories are the closeted gay men who are married to women (societal pressure!) and cruise park bathrooms during lunch hour.

If a gay with faulty gaydar hits on you, it takes all of 2 seconds to say no thanks.

137 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:49:17pm

re: #128 calochortus

I'm not sure I'm getting your meaning.

Some parts of society give a framework for a good life that will lead one to heaven. Go to college, get married, work everyday, go to church --you know follow the rules. Some men seem to take that way, way to seriously. They seriously believe it will get them into heaven.

Instead of following the framework because they want marriage and family and they want to have a relatively stress-free life --compared to what they would get if they totally followed their impulses. They do it because are supposed to and resent that other's don't. And when their kids are grown and they are grandparents, they see themselves as examples of success who can mentor the rest of us.

They see the LGBT community as moral slackers.

They tend to be very arrogant and self-righteous. The idea that the rest of the world hasn't bought into their framework or wasn't taught it at all is beyond them. The idea that G-d doesn't exist or doesn't care just puts them over the edge of total cognitive dissonance.

138 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:50:09pm

re: #135 austin_blue

Wow, check out the haboob on that chick:

[Link: www.wunderground.com...]

looks wonky to me.

139 b_sharp  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:50:40pm

re: #135 austin_blue

Wow, check out the haboob on that chick:

[Link: www.wunderground.com...]

Where was that, Arrakis?

140 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:51:16pm

re: #130 b_sharp

I had an episode today, but it seemed reduced in severity. It was happening every day so the next few days should tell me something.

might take a while for the meds to stabilize with your body chemistry (or the other way around). Have you looked it up anywhere on the intertoobs or asked your doc?

141 Destro  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:51:32pm

I would like it noted I condemned all of American culture in total for being violent.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

142 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:53:09pm

re: #113 goddamnedfrank

The light reflecting off the lake is partially polarized parallel to the surface. You block the greatest amount of that reflected light by setting your optical filter vertical.

because the surface is horizontal?

143 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:53:41pm

re: #141 Destro

I would like it noted I condemned all of American culture in total for being violent.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Yeah, I am constantly dreaming about cause gore and mayhem . . .

/gah

144 austin_blue  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:53:59pm

re: #136 b_sharp

If a gay with faulty gaydar hits on you, it takes all of 2 seconds to say no thanks.

Yup. And one should add "No, but thank you very much for confirming my drop-dead attractiveness! You have empowered me to go hit on the gorgeous fag-hag at the end of the bar and beg her to fix me!"

/////The last bit was a joke, see? Joke. /////

145 austin_blue  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:55:12pm

re: #139 b_sharp

Where was that, Arrakis?

You betcha! The sandworms are just behind the curtain wall.

146 b_sharp  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:55:32pm

re: #140 ggt

might take a while for the meds to stabilize with your body chemistry (or the other way around). Have you looked it up anywhere on the intertoobs or asked your doc?

Yah. The meds can cause shakes, but mine hit me with weakness as well and that doesn't seem to be a listed side-effect. It seems to be related to dehydration, but I'll know better when my body stabilizes.

147 Gus  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:56:03pm
148 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:56:07pm

re: #141 Destro

Concern troll is concerned.

149 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:56:11pm

re: #132 William Barnett-Lewis

I've always figured that they're scared that gay men will treat them like they treat women...

Or they are afraid other straight (*ahem*) men will asume they are hte ghey. Guilt by association of something that isn't guilt in the first place?

Like have a black grandmother used to be a big deal you might not tell anyone.

When your job could depend on it, I guess it makes sense. Not so much without societal consequences, IMHO.

150 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:56:46pm

re: #146 b_sharp

Yah. The meds can cause shakes, but mine hit me with weakness as well and that doesn't seem to be a listed side-effect. It seems to be related to dehydration, but I'll know better when my body stabilizes.

dehydration is a big deal with me.

especially with allergy meds and the hot weather.

a gatorade can make a big, big difference.

151 b_sharp  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:57:01pm

re: #141 Destro

I would like it noted I condemned all of American culture in total for being violent.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

And?

152 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:58:16pm

re: #136 b_sharp

If a gay with faulty gaydar hits on you, it takes all of 2 seconds to say no thanks.

I'm minded of the time a good friend's brother and a buddy of his, both straight, went on a long pub crawl in San Francisco. They were in their early twenties at the time, and I should mention that Brother looks like something out of a torrid romance set in the Scottish Highlands. Big, stunning, redheaded guy.

They ended up in front of a place called the Wooden Horse around midnight. "Looks like our kind of place!" said Buddy. In they went.

They were at the bar before their vision quite adjusted, and they could see the art on the walls. "Maybe...not our kind of place..." said Buddy.

Then the bartender told them that the drinks had been paid for by a gentleman (who had apparently spotted Brother), and they decided it was their kind of place after all, and had a grand night.

This is apropos of absolutely nothing, but it does indicate that you can sometimes get free drinks if you're not a homophobic nervous non-Nelly.

153 b_sharp  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:58:36pm

re: #147 Gus

[Embedded content]

This was either a stupid argument or a parody.

154 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:58:36pm

Some men just seem to freak out about anything sexual at all. If someone --man or women makes a pass at them.

Perhaps women are just so used to it that barely makes it into our short-term memory.

Some Men think they should always be the initiator --aggressor.

155 Gus  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:59:37pm

re: #153 b_sharp

This was either a stupid argument or a parody.

It's Top Conservative Cat! Parody.

156 b_sharp  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 7:59:58pm

re: #149 ggt

Or they are afraid other straight (*ahem*) men will asume they are hte ghey. Guilt by association of something that isn't guilt in the first place?

Like have a black grandmother used to be a big deal you might not tell anyone.

When your job could depend on it, I guess it makes sense. Not so much without societal consequences, IMHO.

If you don't have a giant penis you aren't gay.

157 Kronocide  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:00:51pm
“Today’s attack is the clearest sign we’ve seen that labeling pro-marriage groups as ‘hateful’ must end,” Brown said in a statement issued following the shooting.

Brian Brown just not-so-tacitly admitted that rhetoric powers actual acts. What he's lacking is correctly labeling them a hate group caused the attack: contrarily, he just condemned his own group of fostering rhetoric for which some whacko will act.

158 b_sharp  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:01:13pm

re: #150 ggt

dehydration is a big deal with me.

especially with allergy meds and the hot weather.

a gatorade can make a big, big difference.

I try to drink 2-3 litres of water a day. I fall short some days and that's when the weakness seems to hit.

159 austin_blue  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:02:14pm

re: #154 ggt

Some men just seem to freak out about anything sexual at all. If someone --man or women makes a pass at them.

Perhaps women are just so used to it that barely makes it into our short-term memory.

Some Men think they should always be the initiator --aggressor.

Damn good point. Spot on.

160 b_sharp  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:03:07pm

re: #152 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm minded of the time a good friend's brother and a buddy of his, both straight, went on a long pub crawl in San Francisco. They were in their early twenties at the time, and I should mention that Brother looks like something out of a torrid romance set in the Scottish Highlands. Big, stunning, redheaded guy.

They ended up in front of a place called the Wooden Horse around midnight. "Looks like our kind of place!" said Buddy. In they went.

They were at the bar before their vision quite adjusted, and they could see the art on the walls. "Maybe...not our kind of place..." said Buddy.

Then the bartender told them that the drinks had been paid for by a gentleman (who had apparently spotted Brother), and they decided it was their kind of place after all, and had a grand night.

This is apropos of absolutely nothing, but it does indicate that you can sometimes get free drinks if you're not a homophobic nervous non-Nelly.

Gay guys can't force you to have sex just by being gay.

161 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:03:33pm

re: #149 ggt

Or they are afraid other straight (*ahem*) men will asume they are hte ghey. Guilt by association of something that isn't guilt in the first place?

Like have a black grandmother used to be a big deal you might not tell anyone.

When your job could depend on it, I guess it makes sense. Not so much without societal consequences, IMHO.

When he was in the police academy, my father had a black partner. One of the other white dudes objected. My father told him, with a look of mild amazement, that his mother was black. Surely Bigot Boy could tell?

Bigot Boy decided it was OK for them to be partners in that case, and backed off.

162 Destro  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:04:26pm

re: #143 ggt

Yeah, I am constantly dreaming about cause gore and mayhem . . .

/gah

Judging by American homicide rates and or gun violence rates amongst industrialized first world nations it is very much possible you are statistically speaking.

163 Destro  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:05:33pm

re: #149 ggt

Or they are afraid other straight (*ahem*) men will asume they are hte ghey. Guilt by association of something that isn't guilt in the first place?

Like have a black grandmother used to be a big deal you might not tell anyone.

When your job could depend on it, I guess it makes sense. Not so much without societal consequences, IMHO.

I blame the damned bible.

164 calochortus  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:06:04pm

re: #137 ggt

Thanks. My point wasn't that deep or comprehensive-just that lots of guys think hitting on women to the point of harassment is perfectly acceptable and they assume that gay guys will treat them that way. And we all know it's not OK to treat guys that way...

165 The Ghost of a Flea  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:06:05pm

re: #160 b_sharp

Gay guys can't force you to have sex just by being gay.

...unless they also have to have a gay 6 gigawatt laser and a satellite-mounted rotating mirror.

166 b_sharp  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:06:26pm

re: #154 ggt

Some men just seem to freak out about anything sexual at all. If someone --man or women makes a pass at them.

Perhaps women are just so used to it that barely makes it into our short-term memory.

Some Men think they should always be the initiator --aggressor.

When I was younger I had no idea when a woman was hitting on me. Now that I'm older and have spent a lifetime trying to read people, I see I get hit on fairly often.

I just point to the ring.

I get a nod and a smile in response.

I've been hit on once by a guy. I did the same thing and got the same response.

167 austin_blue  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:07:52pm

re: #165 The Ghost of a Flea

...They also have to have a gay 6 gigawatt laser and a satellite-mounted rotating mirror.

Damn, and I'm straight. Can I get one of those?

168 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:08:45pm

re: #164 calochortus

Thanks. My point wasn't that deep or comprehensive-just that lots of guys think hitting on women to the point of harassment is perfectly acceptable and they assume that gay guys will treat them that way. And we all know it's not OK to treat guys that way...

I don't know, I don't they they go that far in their thought processes. . . .

169 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:08:50pm

Early night, have a good one all.

170 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:09:44pm

re: #166 b_sharp

When I was younger I had no idea when a woman was hitting on me. Now that I'm older and have spent a lifetime trying to read people, I see I get hit on fairly often.

I just point to the ring.

I get a nod and a smile in response.

I've been hit on once by a guy. I did the same thing and got the same response.

I know, it's just not that difficult.

171 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:11:03pm

re: #142 ggt

because the surface is horizontal?

Yes, exactly. As a thought experiment the rule can be reversed: Imagine you're about to photograph a perfectly laminar waterfall from the side, with the sun low on the horizon on the opposite side. Now the reflected light off the surface of the waterfall will be polarized vertically and you need to set the optical polarizing filter along the horizontal plane to cancel out the glare.

172 b_sharp  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:11:17pm

re: #162 Destro

Judging by American homicide rates and or gun violence rates amongst industrialized first world nations it is very much possible you are statistically speaking.

Are you a sock or a rerun?

173 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:12:33pm

ok, this is cool.

174 Only The Lurker Knows  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:12:39pm

re: #134 Gus

No comment.

Upding for replying with a non reply. You have great potential for a future Romney operative.

175 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:13:00pm

[Link: imgur.com...]

176 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:13:54pm

re: #175 Killgore Trout

[Link: imgur.com...]

The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

177 Kronocide  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:14:23pm

Bertrand Russell is my fave.

178 abolitionist  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:14:49pm

re: #125 ggt

For any angle, some of the incident light of one polarization is refracted into the water. There is a special angle (Brewster's angle, which has some dependence on material properties) for which "some" means 100% --all the light of that polarization gets refracted into the water, with 0% reflected. Therefore, at that special angle, any relected light is completely polarized the other way. (horizontal, I think).

Hope that helps.

179 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:15:06pm

re: #171 goddamnedfrank

Yes, exactly. As a thought experiment the rule can be reversed: Imagine you're about to photograph a perfectly laminar waterfall from the side, with the sun low on the horizon on the opposite side. Now the reflected light off the surface of the waterfall will be polarized vertically and you need to set the optical polarizing filter along the horizontal plane to cancel out the glare.

I guess I've never absorbed that light rays are truly plane-like. I always thought of them as well --formless for the most part.

180 b_sharp  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:16:23pm

re: #179 ggt

I guess I've never absorbed that light rays are truly plane-like. I always thought of them as well --formless for the most part.

They think the same about you.

181 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:17:40pm

re: #180 b_sharp

They think the same about you.

Yeah, I know.

Some stuff is just to abstract for me I guess.

No wait, I thought lightwaves didn't go thru matter, but energy waves could . . .

Now you are completely confusing me.

182 b_sharp  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:17:53pm

re: #179 ggt

I guess I've never absorbed that light rays are truly plane-like. I always thought of them as well --formless for the most part.

Don't forget that a photon hasn't decided what it is until it hits something.

183 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:19:05pm

#182 bsharp

Don't forget that a photon hasn't decided what it is until it hits something.

what about a fermion?

184 Kronocide  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:19:05pm

I noticed in wingnuttia that since the media is not using more charged descriptors of the FRC shooting incident it shows that they only are concerned about liberals getting shot at.

They seem to forget this guy got tackled and shot the security guard in the arm, as opposed to one dude killing 13 people and shooting a US congresswoman through the head.

Minor differences.

185 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:19:59pm

re: #178 abolitionist

For any angle, some of the incident light of one polarization is refracted into the water. There is a special angle (Brewster's angle, which has some dependence on material properties) for which "some" means 100% --all the light of that polarization gets refracted into the water, with 0% reflected. Therefore, at that special angle, any relected light is completely polarized the other way. (horizontal, I think).

Hope that helps.

So, we are playing the Opposite Game when it comes to polarized reflections?

186 Only The Lurker Knows  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:20:54pm

Night Lizards. Gus, nothing personal in tonight's posts. Just think you were/are wrong. Nothing more, nothing less.

187 Gus  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:21:22pm

OK. Thought about it. It's OK for people to support Assange even if I don't. Guess it's that simple sometimes. Just hope that some people will leave Israel or Pinochet out of it.

188 Gus  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:21:47pm

re: #186 Bubblehead II

Night Lizards. Gus, nothing personal in tonight's posts. Just think you were/are wrong. Nothing more, nothing less.

Hey. Look at what I just typed. ;)

189 b_sharp  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:22:23pm

re: #181 ggt

Yeah, I know.

Some stuff is just to abstract for me I guess.

No wait, I thought lightwaves didn't go thru matter, but energy waves could . . .

Now you are completely confusing me.

They are absorbed by some material and their energy heats it up. Some, depending on wavelength, bounces off, so there isn't just one reaction to an object.

Some particles (neutrinos) are small enough they pass through the empty space of molecules and atoms. We're mostly empty space.

190 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:22:30pm

If a homophobe is hit on by a gay guy, he probably thinks he is showing weakness --like a women.

So he is both a homophobe and a misogynist . . .

191 Kronocide  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:22:40pm

Ace of Spades goes Full Metal Fail:

Washington Post: Gunning Down Political Opponents Is No Big Deal, As Long As The Right People Are Getting Shot

Compare this rather understated report with the shooting of Gabby Giffords.

A security guard at the Family Research Council was shot and wounded Wednesday morning after a scuffle with a man who expressed disagreement with the group’s conservative viewsin the lobby of the group’s headquarters in downtown Washington, authorities said.

He "expressed disagreement," apparently in between gunshots.

So am I fair game, Washington Post? I don't notice any alarm here about this development. I notice you are greatly alarmed if a liberal is harmed (justifiably) or even jeered; but now that the FRC is literally being targeted by the left, it all seems such a laugh to you now.

Mary Katharine Ham advises the 48 hour rule for cooler heads, to allow facts to emerge.

I agree. Just finding it very odd that this rule only seems to be observed in cases where conservatives are victimized.

In addition, I do not expect any follow-up stories by the media. After all, no one who counts got shot.

192 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:23:01pm

re: #189 b_sharp

They are absorbed by some material and their energy heats it up. Some, depending on wavelength, bounces off, so there isn't just one reaction to an object.

Some particles (neutrinos) are small enough they pass through the empty space of molecules and atoms. We're mostly empty space.

I thought we were bags of water.

193 b_sharp  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:23:14pm

re: #183 ggt

#182 bsharp

what about a fermion?

Pre or post Viagra?

194 Kronocide  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:23:54pm

[tweet

195 Gus  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:24:02pm

re: #186 Bubblehead II

Night Lizards. Gus, nothing personal in tonight's posts. Just think you were/are wrong. Nothing more, nothing less.

And... didn't see anything personal in your posts either. Later.

196 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:25:46pm

re: #189 b_sharp

They are absorbed by some material and their energy heats it up. Some, depending on wavelength, bounces off, so there isn't just one reaction to an object.

Some particles (neutrinos) are small enough they pass through the empty space of molecules and atoms. We're mostly empty space.

Yeah, yeah, matter absorbs all the lightwaves in the visible spectrum that it is. Grass isn't really green--I can understand that. But does it reflect, or refract the colors it isn't?

How does one determine if it is polarized?

197 b_sharp  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:26:05pm

re: #192 ggt

I thought we were bags of water.

Water is mostly empty space.

198 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:26:25pm

re: #193 b_sharp

Pre or post Viagra?

hmmmmm, does it matter?

199 What, me worry?  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:27:26pm

re: #190 ggt

If a homophobe is hit on by a gay guy, he probably thinks he is showing weakness --like a women.

So he is both a homophobe and a misogynist . . .

I would say he thinks he's far too close to saying "Yes", which is my theory on these guys.

"Btw I'm straight." Always worked for me in the gay clubs. They had the best dance music back in the day.

200 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:27:37pm

re: #197 b_sharp

Water is mostly empty space.

I know, and I keep forgetting that it isn't stagnent. Everything is moving all the time. Creating and/or using energy.

It's all to much. Why didn't I learn all this in High School?

201 Gus  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:29:47pm

People get all over the top sometimes... these days.

You kids get off my lawn!

202 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:30:00pm

LGBT issues seems to polarize people. Or they think it should polarize everyone --to their way of thinking.

When, actually, I'm right.

Live and let live. I have so many more pertinent issues in my life to deal with than whether or not someone I don't know should be bonking someone else I don't know.

203 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:30:36pm

re: #201 Gus

People get all over the top sometimes... these days.

You kids get off my lawn!

only works if you are Clint Eastwood and you have a shotgun.

204 Gus  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:31:15pm

But they do go over the top. They start comparing some extradition squabble into PINOCHET WAS HERE AND THERE AND THATCHER DONE IT!

Limbaugh and his HITLER!

Yeesh.

205 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:31:25pm

re: #193 b_sharp

Pre or post Viagra?

Wait, I missed that.

It wouldn't be ferm if it was pre - - - ?

206 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:31:47pm

re: #187 Gus

OK. Thought about it. It's OK for people to support Assange even if I don't. Guess it's that simple sometimes. Just hope that some people will leave Israel or Pinochet out of it.

I don't support Assange. I support the idea that his rights matter. Additionally while I've never heard of anybody else being held for so long or extradited solely on the basis of a material witness warrant I'm also cognizant of the fact that he's done a lot to place himself in this rather complicated situation.

207 Gus  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:32:25pm

re: #206 goddamnedfrank

I don't support Assange. I support the idea that his rights matter. Additionally while I've never heard of anybody else being held for so long or extradited solely on the basis of a material witness warrant I'm also cognizant of the fact that he'd done a lot to place himself in this rather complicated situation.

I'll take that under advisement. ;)

208 Achilles Tang  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:33:18pm

re: #206 goddamnedfrank

I don't support Assange. I support the idea that his rights matter. Additionally while I've never heard of anybody else being held for so long or extradited solely on the basis of a material witness warrant I'm also cognizant of the fact that he'd done a lot to place himself in this rather complicated situation.

I thought that the current active warrant was from Sweden, not the USA. What have I missed?

209 b_sharp  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:34:57pm

re: #196 ggt

Yeah, yeah, matter absorbs all the lightwaves in the visible spectrum that it is. Grass isn't really green--I can understand that. But does it reflect, or refract the colors it isn't?

How does one determine if it is polarized?

You're looking for a simple explanation of a complex subject.

Colour depends on the element and the composition of the molecule. The wave form of the light determines whether it will reflect or not. Refraction occurs at the boundary between two or more different substances.

210 Gus  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:35:02pm

If that didn't make any sense... well, I am kind of high right now. =)

211 Gus  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:35:27pm
212 b_sharp  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:35:38pm

re: #200 ggt

I know, and I keep forgetting that it isn't stagnent. Everything is moving all the time. Creating and/or using energy.

It's all to much. Why didn't I learn all this in High School?

Boys on the mind.

213 Gus  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:35:43pm

I forgot that Treacher has me blocked. LOL

214 dragonath  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:36:07pm

re: #192 ggt

I thought we were bags of water.

Image: tumblr_lgbqxmBWRR1qd5tdto1_500.png

215 darthstar  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:36:18pm

John Cole gets it...that Dana Milbank gets it. The GOP isn't fighting a passive and cowardly Democratic party anymore. We're fighting back.

216 Gus  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:37:08pm

I know an important point. We need to remember not to think that the FRC brought this upon themselves. We can yell and scream but violence has no place here.

217 darthstar  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:37:12pm

re: #215 darthstar

Oops...had that as Juan Cole first...please refresh before hitting reply.

218 abolitionist  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:39:35pm

re: #185 ggt

So, we are playing the Opposite Game when it comes to polarized reflections?

Yes --if you're a photographer wishing to eliminate most or all of some "glare" of reflected light, or in the case of the sky, scattered light. In either case, there is a special angle (direction) for which a polaroid filter will be most effective --when adjusted appropriately.

If you don't happen to be near a water surface, but have polaroid glasses, try this. On a clear morning or afternoon, with the sun to your right (or left), look to the blue sky with one eye thru one polaroid lens, as you slowly rotate that lens. At some positions, parts of the sky (about 90 degrees from the sun) will be significantly darkened.

219 Kragar  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:41:45pm

Any party which caters to the FRC, AFA, or NOM deserves whatever criticism comes their way.

220 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:41:59pm

re: #208 Achilles Tang

I thought that the current active warrant was from Sweden, not the USA. What have I missed?

Nothing, it's still Sweden's material witness warrant driving the action. He's terrified however that once in Sweden the US will request extradition. The idea is that we somehow got Sweden to push their warrant to freeze Assange and buy time for us to put together a case out of the Manning leak. I don't know what to think, it's possible but I kind of have a hard time seeing Sweden going along so willingly and just handing him over if or when their investigation folds without charges. I'm also not sure we've got enough evidence to charge him with anything tangible under US law, even if he did give aid, comfort and advice to Manning.

221 Gus  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:42:42pm

They hate us. We hate them.

Manchester United.

222 Gus  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:43:04pm

Life is like a hooligan riot.

223 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:43:24pm
224 darthstar  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:43:44pm

re: #219 Kragar

Any party which caters to the FRC, AFA, or NOM deserves whatever criticism comes their way.

BTW, the anagram for those three organizations is Franc Foam...FRENCH!

225 Gus  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:43:57pm

re: #223 Stanley Sea

[Embedded content]

Oh my god, no. Baby juice? Really?

226 darthstar  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:44:20pm

re: #223 Stanley Sea

[Embedded content]

That's too funny. Please tell me it was Megyn Kelly.

227 Kragar  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:44:26pm

Executive order from Governor Jan Brewer blocks IDs, benefits for illegal immigrants

Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer on Wednesday ordered state agencies to deny driver's licenses and other public benefits to young illegal immigrants who obtain work authorizations under a new Obama administration policy.

After the order was issued, supporters of the program and the DREAM Act took to the streets of Phoenix in protest. Video from Air15 showed the protesters carrying signs and walking down Central Avenue toward the State Capitol.

In an executive order, Brewer said she was reaffirming the intent of current Arizona law denying taxpayer-funded public benefits and state identification to illegal immigrants.

228 Achilles Tang  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:44:34pm

re: #196 ggt

Yeah, yeah, matter absorbs all the lightwaves in the visible spectrum that it is. Grass isn't really green--I can understand that. But does it reflect, or refract the colors it isn't?

How does one determine if it is polarized?

Grass is green, definitely, but a Wookie calls it something else, even though the reflected wavelength is the same, and a synthesist might call it B flat.

229 Gus  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:45:05pm
230 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:45:25pm

re: #225 Gus

Oh my god, no. Baby juice? Really?

I just posted the tweet. I believe it.

231 Gus  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:46:19pm

re: #230 Stanley Sea

I just posted the tweet. I believe it.

Oh I bet. Freaking Fox News. Steve Doocy is their spiritual leader. (cough)

232 b_sharp  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:46:26pm

re: #228 Achilles Tang

Grass is green, definitely, but a Wookie calls it something else, even though the reflected wavelength is the same, and a synthesist might call it B flat.

Some of us are too sharp for that although it does depend on our moog.

233 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:47:46pm

re: #230 Stanley Sea

I just posted the tweet. I believe it.

I think this may be it. In which case, it was a visiting 'expert', not an actual Fox blonde.

[Link: foxnewsinsider.com...]

234 jaunte  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:47:46pm

re: #222 Gus

Life is like a hooligan riot.

And baby juice is trending.

(not really)

235 Interesting Times  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:48:08pm

re: #231 Gus

Oh I bet. Freaking Fox News. Steve Doocy is their spiritual leader. (cough)

Yes, seriously. Jon Stewart just showed the clip on today's Daily Show's "Moments of Zen". I'm not sure if it was a fox regular or just a guest. The blondebots seriously all look alike.

236 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:48:19pm

re: #223 Stanley Sea

[Embedded content]

I used to work with an old crusty projectionist who once wanted to say to a very young female employee something like "You got a wild hair up your ass?" However he knew this needed to be rephrased and cleaned up so instead it came out "What you got, hairs growin' some place?"

So much worse.

238 Digital Display  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:49:05pm

re: #230 Stanley Sea

I just posted the tweet. I believe it.

I saw the Interview the other day.. If I recall she didn't work for Fox but a quick interview side by side with a woman from Fox...I may be wrong but that is what I recall...

239 Mich-again  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:49:32pm

re: #216 Gus

I know an important point. We need to remember not to think that the FRC brought this upon themselves. We can yell and scream but violence has no place here.

Radicalism breeds radicalism. I've been saying that here for years. Pushing the pendulum past the center is just building momentum for the backswing. I would never advocate violence to get political retribution, ideas and words are all the ammunition you'll ever need. But when someone makes a living of running around kicking hornets nests, they're asking for trouble.

240 Kragar  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:50:35pm

re: #223 Stanley Sea

[Embedded content]

Are they going to talk about how Romney wants to cut funding for the choo-choos or someone got an ouchie from bang bang at the FRC?

241 jaunte  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:51:04pm

Dr. Wendy Walsh, Psychologist with language problems.

242 Gus  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:51:58pm

re: #239 Mich-again

Radicalism breeds radicalism. I've been saying that here for years. Pushing the pendulum past the center is just building momentum for the backswing. I would never advocate violence to get political retribution, ideas and words are all the ammunition you'll ever need. But when someone makes a living of running around kicking hornets nests, they're asking for trouble.

Yes, but radicalism can go both ways. It's not the politics. It's not the fault of either side. Most of don't support violence. Groups like FRC don't promote violence. Hate as in hateful doesn't mean the worst part of hate. So when I say that the FRC is a hate group I also put them on a scale. They're really not the worst of hate. Still.

243 Interesting Times  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:52:46pm

re: #238 Digital Display

I saw the Interview the other day.. If I recall she didn't work for Fox but a quick interview side by side with a woman from Fox...I may be wrong but that is what I recall...

I thought she was being interviewed by one of their priggish little British hosts (I forget the guy's name; he's been in a lot of Daily Show clips saying spectacularly stupid things in a "smart" accent). The context of the interview was that study saying men under stress are more attracted to heavy women, and the resulting innuendo ("durr hurr, meat on the bones") would have a high-schooler rolling their eyes at the sheer immaturity.

244 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:52:58pm

Sex therapist Dr. Wendy Walsh - A COMPLETE FAIL AT ANY TYPE OF SEXUAL THERAPY.

245 CuriousLurker  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:53:43pm

For your amusement: Creeping Sharia is everywhere!

My personal favorite is The Michele Bachmann Theory of how YouTube was infiltrated by the MB.

246 jaunte  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:53:46pm

re: #244 Stanley Sea

She's America's Relationship Expert
[Link: drwendywalsh.com...]

247 b_sharp  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:53:50pm

I have to head off to bed, but before I do I need to make a few of the married men here jealous. My wife prefers watching football and golf over watching Oprah. My wife would rather go see an action movie than a chick-flick.

248 darthstar  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:53:57pm

re: #225 Gus

Oh my god, no. Baby juice? Really?

I prefer baby carrot juice.

249 Kragar  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:55:53pm

Dr. Walsh's previous claim to fame:

"Most studies on survivors show that the atheists die first because if you don't believe in something supernatural, how can you imagine that you yourself have supernatural abilities enough to survive?"

250 dragonath  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:56:21pm

re: #239 Mich-again

Radicalism breeds radicalism. I've been saying that here for years. Pushing the pendulum past the center is just building momentum for the backswing. I would never advocate violence to get political retribution, ideas and words are all the ammunition you'll ever need. But when someone makes a living of running around kicking hornets nests, they're asking for trouble.

Given the increased radicalism over the past 40 years, I have to wonder if closed primaries are the bane of our system.

251 b_sharp  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:56:39pm

re: #249 Kragar

Dr. Walsh's previous claim to fame:

"Most studies on survivors show that the atheists die first because if you don't believe in something supernatural, how can you imagine that you yourself have supernatural abilities enough to survive?"

She's an idiot.

Goodnight.
Really.

252 Kragar  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:57:12pm

re: #248 darthstar

I prefer baby carrot juice.

I tried to juice a baby once, but it kept rolling out of the juicer.

253 Digital Display  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:57:39pm

Baby Juice
Go ahead and admit it..
Great title for a P0rn flick

254 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:57:59pm

re: #246 jaunte

She's America's Relationship Expert
[Link: drwendywalsh.com...]

Jesus Christo another charlatan on Fox. My stars!

255 Kragar  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:59:08pm

re: #253 Digital Display

Baby Juice
Go ahead and admit it..
Great title for a P0rn flick

The Baby Juice Express

Not porn

256 Achilles Tang  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:59:24pm

re: #249 Kragar

Dr. Walsh's previous claim to fame:

"Most studies on survivors show that the atheists die first because if you don't believe in something supernatural, how can you imagine that you yourself have supernatural abilities enough to survive?"

Most studies show that Walsh's don't go to heaven.

257 Gus  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 8:59:28pm

re: #254 Stanley Sea

Jesus Christo another charlatan on Fox. My stars!

She could have been an osteopath.

//

258 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 9:00:20pm

re: #257 Gus

She could have been an osteopath.

//

"Girl, stay away from that baby juice stuff" Sex therapist 2012

259 abolitionist  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 9:00:45pm

re: #253 Digital Display

Baby Juice
Go ahead and admit it..
Great title for a P0rn flick

The titles matter?

260 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 9:00:47pm

re: #209 b_sharp

You're looking for a simple explanation of a complex subject.

Colour depends on the element and the composition of the molecule. The wave form of the light determines whether it will reflect or not. Refraction occurs at the boundary between two or more different substances.

It's just the way my mind works. I need to grasp the outline or the global concept before I can get to the complex specifics. I need the framework first then I can fill it in.

Probably why I'm horrible at math

261 Mich-again  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 9:02:28pm

re: #250 dragonath

Given the increased radicalism over the past 40 years, I have to wonder if closed primaries are the bane of our system.

HE SAID BANE!

262 Kragar  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 9:02:52pm

re: #258 Stanley Sea

"Girl, stay away from that baby juice stuff" Sex therapist 2012

ABSTINENCE ONLY!

263 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 9:02:55pm

re: #218 abolitionist

Yes --if you're a photographer wishing to eliminate most or all of some "glare" of reflected light, or in the case of the sky, scattered light. In either case, there is a special angle (direction) for which a polaroid filter will be most effective --when adjusted appropriately.

If you don't happen to be near a water surface, but have polaroid glasses, try this. On a clear morning or afternoon, with the sun to your right (or left), look to the blue sky with one eye thru one polaroid lens, as you slowly rotate that lens. At some positions, parts of the sky (about 90 degrees from the sun) will be significantly darkened.

I think I got that from the fun video I posted upthread. It was very cool. thanks!

264 Lidane  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 9:03:55pm

re: #246 jaunte

She's America's Relationship Expert
[Link: drwendywalsh.com...]

If you can't even describe sperm without switching over to a ridiculous phrase like "baby juice" you've got no business calling yourself an expert on anything.

WTF.

265 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 9:04:08pm

re: #228 Achilles Tang

Grass is green, definitely, but a Wookie calls it something else, even though the reflected wavelength is the same, and a synthesist might call it B flat.

Well, it could be a bit blue, or yellow depending and even sometimes, in some light, it could be violet.

:)

266 abolitionist  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 9:04:08pm

re: #263 ggt

I'll go look.

267 jaunte  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 9:04:56pm

re: #264 Lidane

She's either silly, or a crafty self-promoter.

268 Lidane  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 9:05:20pm

re: #249 Kragar

Dr. Walsh's previous claim to fame:

"Most studies on survivors show that the atheists die first because if you don't believe in something supernatural, how can you imagine that you yourself have supernatural abilities enough to survive?"

What a bunch of bullshit. Sounds like she's from the RWNJ School of Pulling Facts Out of Various Orifices.

269 Gus  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 9:05:43pm

re: #268 Lidane

What a bunch of bullshit. Sounds like she's from the RWNJ School of Pulling Facts Out of Various Orifices.

Valves.

270 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 9:05:52pm

re: #234 jaunte

And baby juice is trending.

(not really)

Way too many tangents for me to expound on this subject.

271 jaunte  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 9:06:22pm

Valves Voters.

272 dragonath  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 9:07:17pm

re: #261 Mich-again

HE SAID BANE!

...meep!

273 Gus  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 9:08:08pm

re: #271 jaunte

Valves Voters.

My work has wings!

//

274 Lidane  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 9:08:15pm

re: #267 jaunte

She's either silly, or a crafty self-promoter.

Or she's stupid AND a crafty self-promoter, which makes her perfect for the Faux News crowd.

275 Mich-again  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 9:08:27pm

re: #253 Digital Display

Baby Juice
Go ahead and admit it..
Great title for a P0rn flick

ha. I thought the term was baby batter.

276 Achilles Tang  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 9:08:45pm

re: #260 ggt

It's just the way my mind works. I need to grasp the outline or the global concept before I can get to the complex specifics. I need the framework first then I can fill it in.

Probably why I'm horrible at math

It can be simple. Different atoms absorb some wavelengths and reflect others to various degrees preferentially. Different wavelengths send a different voltage, sort of, to your brain, and your Mommy told you which name to apply to each wavelength while you were both looking at the same one, just like her mommy told her. If you want to tell your kids that green is blue, then so it will be until they start school.

277 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 9:09:00pm

re: #268 Lidane

What a bunch of bullshit. Sounds like she's from the RWNJ School of Pulling Facts Out of Various Orifices.

Anyone find her ed career? Liberty U?

278 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 9:09:33pm

re: #8 researchok

It would be nice if NOM made news by offering best wishes to the victim and his family.

Like these folks;

23 gay rights leaders condemn Family Research Council shooting

I do somewhat wish they'd not call the guard "the shooting victim" and instead called him "the guard who was shot while stopping the gunman". Because one thing the guard refused to be was a victim: He took effective action and though he was shot he saved the lives of others. Call him 'hero' instead.

279 Gus  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 9:09:40pm

Sperm?!?!?!
-- Church Lady

280 freetoken  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 9:09:58pm

re: #196 ggt

Yeah, yeah, matter absorbs all the lightwaves in the visible spectrum that it is. Grass isn't really green--I can understand that. But does it reflect, or refract the colors it isn't?

How does one determine if it is polarized?

The latter question is easily answered if one has a sheet of material with a polarizing screen - such as some sunglasses. Simply look at the light from the object through the screen, rotate the screen, and if the object changes in relative brightness then some of the light refracted and/or reflected from the object is polarized.

As for grass (and all plants) - they do both. Plenty of reflection, but also light passes through the thinner sections. On the surface of leaves there can be little water droplets that act like little lenses. The wax on the surface cells of plants tend to be pretty colorless. The chloroplasts inside of plant cells absorb mostly the shorter and longer wavelengths in the visible spectrum (thus letting the "green" light go by.) The chambers of cells on the surface of leaves tend to be excellent reflectors of near-infrared wavelengths.

281 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 9:10:08pm

re: #275 Mich-again

ha. I thought the term was baby batter.

batter/juice, depends on the ego. But she is a sex therapist so..

282 Achilles Tang  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 9:10:28pm

re: #263 ggt

I think I got that from the fun video I posted upthread. It was very cool. thanks!

But polarization is not color. Any color (frequency) can be polarized.

283 Mich-again  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 9:10:29pm

re: #249 Kragar

Dr. Walsh's previous claim to fame:

"Most studies on survivors show that the atheists die first because if you don't believe in something supernatural, how can you imagine that you yourself have supernatural abilities enough to survive?"

I think he's on to something. Most religious people are probably trying to delay the elevator ride down as long as they can.

284 Lidane  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 9:11:33pm

re: #277 Stanley Sea

Anyone find her ed career? Liberty U?

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

285 Achilles Tang  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 9:13:45pm

re: #265 ggt

Well, it could be a bit blue, or yellow depending and even sometimes, in some light, it could be violet.

:)

No, if it is green it is green. If it is violet it is violet because the conditions have changed what reaches your eye; the conditions have not changed the nature of the radiation.

286 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 9:13:45pm

re: #276 Achilles Tang

It can be simple. Different atoms absorb some wavelengths and reflect others to various degrees preferentially. Different wavelengths send a different voltage, sort of, to your brain, and your Mommy told you which name to apply to each wavelength while you were both looking at the same one, just like her mommy told her. If you want to tell your kids that green is blue, then so it will be until they start school.

Leave Immanuel Kant out of this! I'm confused enough.

:)

287 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 9:14:52pm

re: #282 Achilles Tang

But polarization is not color. Any color (frequency) can be polarized.

I know. I did get that. I am probably making this harder than it is. So, can sound frequency be polarized?

288 freetoken  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 9:17:18pm

Speaking of plants, I am now convinced that it is impossible to match a chocolate with figs.

I love figs. A freshly picked, truly ripe, fig is one of the premier human foods - indeed, we were eating them before we were human.

Perhaps because of that long co-evolution with the fig, we are very sensitive to small changes in "fig flavor". Ripe figs are very sweet, which I love, but they have a rich flavor, or more accurately, odor. Chocolate likewise has a very complex odor. Combining them results in not a symphony of flavor but rather a car crash of cuisine.

289 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 9:17:54pm

re: #285 Achilles Tang

No, if it is green it is green. If it is violet it is violet because the conditions have changed what reaches your eye; the conditions have not changed the nature of the radiation.

araghhhhhhhh! I know, it's a vocabulary issue, isn't it?

At least in pigment --no color is really pure. It is a combination of many colors --it is gray. In light, I think, that combination is a version of white.

To make grass, in paint, I'd combine probably a few different "colors" to get the right "green". I would likely never take the green straight from the tube and use it as is. The shadows might be rendered in a purple.

290 Achilles Tang  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 9:19:30pm

re: #287 ggt

I know. I did get that. I am probably making this harder than it is. So, can sound frequency be polarized?

Good question. Thinking....Sound is not equivalent to electromagnetism, it is physical "bouncing" of atoms, so in a particular medium I would say no, but at an interface of different mediums, yes. Like waves on water; they do go up and down don't they?

291 Lidane  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 9:21:01pm

Paul Ryan Slams His Own Medicare Cuts In Ohio

Speaking at his alma mater Miami University in Ohio, Paul Ryan slammed President Obama for adopting Medicare cuts that, until last week, were openly supported by Ryan himself.

“The president, I’m told, is talking about Medicare today,” Ryan said. “We want this debate.”

292 abolitionist  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 9:21:05pm

re: #287 ggt

I know. I did get that. I am probably making this harder than it is. So, can sound frequency be polarized?

Thru solids and liquids, yes. Thru gases, no. In gases, you have compression/decompression. There are no significant sideways forces, such as can exist in solids, and to a lesser extent, in liquids.

293 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 9:21:16pm

re: #284 Lidane

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Actress. Go Fox!

294 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 9:22:52pm

re: #293 Stanley Sea

Actress. Go Fox!

Is it just me, but I don't really consider a "psychoanalyst" a doctor. Do they do ANY hard science in school?

295 Mich-again  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 9:23:07pm

re: #291 Lidane

Paul Ryan Slams His Own Medicare Cuts In Ohio

He went into Mitt's time machine and changed his mind so don't be hateful by bringing that up K.

296 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 9:23:30pm

re: #292 abolitionist

Thru solids and liquids, yes. Thru gasses, no. In gasses, you have compression/decompression. There are no significant sideways forces, such as can exist in solids, and to a lesser extent, in liquids.

bizarre stuff!

297 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 9:25:07pm

While LGF has, for good reason, not seen discussion of the Kristen Stewart cheating scandal, I'm going to mention it here very briefly. The reason is to introduce a fine essay by Jodie Foster (alongside whom Stewart starred in Panic Room in 2001) wherein Foster gives the overblown media spectacle the sharp dressing-down it deserves. Truly an example of how to deliver sharp criticism without being overwrought:

We’ve all seen the headlines at the check-out counter. “Kristen Stewart Caught.” We’ve all thumbed the glossy pages here and there. “Kris and Rob a couple?” We all catch the snaps. “I like that dress. I hate the hair. Cute couple. Bad shoes.” There’s no guilt in acknowledging the human interest in public linens. It’s as old as the hills. Lift up beautiful young people like gods and then pull them down to earth to gaze at their seams. See, they’re just like us. But we seldom consider the childhoods we unknowingly destroy in the process.

I have been an actress since I was 3 years old, 46 years to date. I have no memories of a childhood outside the public eye. I am told people look to me as a success story. Often complete strangers approach me and ask, How have you stayed so normal, so well-adjusted, so private? I usually lie and say, “Just boring I guess.” The truth is, like some curious radioactive mutant, I have invented my own gothic survival tools. I have fashioned rules to control the glaring eyes. Maybe I’ve organized my career choices to allow myself (and the ones I truly love) maximum personal dignity. And, yes, I have neurotically adapted to the gladiator sport of celebrity culture, the cruelty of a life lived as a moving target. In my era, through discipline and force of will, you could still manage to reach for a star-powered career and have the authenticity of a private life. Sure, you’d have to lose your spontaneity in the elaborate architecture. You’d have to learn to submerge beneath the foul air and breathe through a straw. But at least you could stand up and say, I will not willfully participate in my own exploitation. Not anymore. If I were a young actor or actress starting my career today in the new era of social media and its sanctioned hunting season, would I survive? Would I drown myself in drugs, sex, and parties? Would I be lost?

I’ve said it before and I will say it again: if I were a young actor today I would quit before I started. If I had to grow up in this media culture, I don’t think I could survive it emotionally. I would only hope that someone who loved me, really loved me, would put their arm around me and lead me away to safety. Sarah Tobias would never have danced before her rapists in The Accused. Clarice would never have shared the awful screaming of the lambs to Dr. Lecter. Another actress might surely have taken my place, opened her soul to create those characters, surrendered her vulnerabilities. But would she have survived the paparazzi peering into her windows, the online harassment, the public humiliations, without overdosing in a hotel room or sticking her face with needles until she became unrecognizable even to herself?

298 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 9:25:09pm

nighty

299 lostlakehiker  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 9:25:48pm

re: #12 Cap'n Magic

At least with the more militant strain of Islamists, they walk the talk: I can count on one hand the number of militant Christian martyrs in the last 10+ years-Islam? Hundreds, if not thousands. The fact that Christianists don't accept martyrdom (let alone willingly) shows just how much faith these apologists have-none. They're nothing more than Neo-Pharisees. After all, would Jesus wear a Rolex on his TV show?

I know a non-militant Vietnamese Catholic who spent about ten years in a Communist "camp", and would rationally have expected to die as so many others did there, because he would not renounce his faith. It really was just that simple.

He's not literally a martyr, because he lived. But his story is the next best thing to an example. Others just like him, except not enjoying the same luck, did die.

He eventually escaped (boat people, pirates, the works) and rejoined [in Canada] the portion of his family he'd managed to get out ahead of time.

Why didn't he himself leave? He was a doctor, and his patients needed him. He walked the walk. There really is no greater love than his; you just can't ask more. And unlike the militants you're acknowledging, he didn't do it in an effort to kill others. Quite the opposite.

300 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 9:27:23pm

re: #287 ggt

I know. I did get that. I am probably making this harder than it is. So, can sound frequency be polarized?

Not through air. Technically, seismic shearing waves (S waves) experience polarization, however they can only travel through elastic solids, not liquids or gasses.

301 funky chicken  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 9:27:29pm

re: #187 Gus

OK. Thought about it. It's OK for people to support Assange even if I don't. Guess it's that simple sometimes. Just hope that some people will leave Israel or Pinochet out of it.

Oh, Assange is a POS. I just don't care if he goes to live in Ecuador.

302 freetoken  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 9:27:46pm

Since we are talking of sex... and figs... here's something you can file under "little things I didn't really need to know":

Fig reproduction is complicated, and each fig species depends upon a particular wasp to pollinate it.

The fig fruit is sort of turned inside out - think of a small change purse that you can flip inside out - with the flowers appearing "inside". That's why there is a little hole on the end of the fruit.

The female wasp climbs through the hole when the fruit is small and green, lays eggs, then goes and flies away or is finished. Later her children emerge, the boys mate with the girls, the girls fly away, and boys die, inside the fig.

Thus, when you eat a ripe fig, you very well may be eating little insect parts. Now, some will tell you that the fig plant "absorbs" the insect parts... but that is a little bit of a lie. Bacteria and fungi very well may breakdown parts of body, and the end products used by the plant, but there usually isn't much time between when the little guys come out to mate and when the fig fruit turns ripe and is eaten.

303 Achilles Tang  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 9:28:19pm

re: #292 abolitionist

Thru solids and liquids, yes. Thru gases, no. In gases, you have compression/decompression. There are no significant sideways forces, such as can exist in solids, and to a lesser extent, in liquids.

Not my field, but I don't know if I agree with that, although it does occur that some crystalline structures can have vibration modes that have a preferential spatial orientation. I don't see how amorphous solids or liquids could.

304 blueraven  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 9:29:09pm

re: #288 freetoken

Speaking of plants, I am now convinced that it is impossible to match a chocolate with figs.

I love figs. A freshly picked, truly ripe, fig is one of the premier human foods - indeed, we were eating them before we were human.

Perhaps because of that long co-evolution with the fig, we are very sensitive to small changes in "fig flavor". Ripe figs are very sweet, which I love, but they have a rich flavor, or more accurately, odor. Chocolate likewise has a very complex odor. Combining them results in not a symphony of flavor but rather a car crash of cuisine.

A chocolate fig torte is quite yummy

[Link: www.google.com...]

305 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 9:30:29pm

And now something to warm Freetoken's heart:

'The Kardashians have zero talent': Bourne Legacy star Jeremy Renner brands reality TV family as 'ridiculous people'

Jeremy Renner may be Hollywood's rising leading man but he is not afraid of letting his fellow celebrities know their place.

The Bourne Legacy star has hit out at Kim Kardashian and the whole clan after branding them as 'ridiculous people with zero talent.'

The 41-year-old made the damning statement about the reality TV family and joined a growing number of stars that have become vocal about the group.

When speaking to The Guardian newspaper, Renner said: 'Oh, all those ridiculous people with zero talent who spend their lives making sure everyone knows their name. Those stupid, stupid people.'

306 Lidane  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 9:32:10pm

re: #297 Dark_Falcon

Forget being an actress -- if I'd had to live through my 20's with my entire life exposed on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter, I'd probably have ended up in rehab or worse.

I did a lot of really stupid shit back then, and a lot of things I'm not proud of, but I'm thankful every day that the internet hadn't really taken off at that point and that cell phones were clunky and uncommon.

307 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 9:32:31pm

re: #264 Lidane

If you can't even describe sperm without switching over to a ridiculous phrase like "baby juice" you've got no business calling yourself an expert on anything.

WTF.

Well, in context, 'sperm' would have been equally ridiculous. She goes on to talk about women having 'pizza dough tummies', and 'boys' wanting to get a 'sense of mommy'.

It's kind of nauseating.

308 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 9:33:08pm

re: #306 Lidane

Forget being an actress -- if I'd had to live through my 20's with my entire life exposed on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter, I'd probably have ended up in rehab or worse.

I did a lot of really stupid shit back then, and a lot of things I'm not proud of, but I'm thankful every day that the internet hadn't really taken off at that point and that cell phones were clunky and uncommon.

It's not just actors. Modern kids are having their lives recorded minute by minute. It's all being kept, somewhere.

This can't be good.

309 Achilles Tang  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 9:33:12pm

Goodnight, and don't anyone get too polarized while I'm gone.

310 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 9:33:32pm

re: #278 Dark_Falcon

I do somewhat wish they'd not call the guard "the shooting victim" and instead called him "the guard who was shot while stopping the gunman". Because one thing the guard refused to be was a victim: He took effective action and though he was shot he saved the lives of others. Call him 'hero' instead.

He is that. This could have been a hell of a lot worse if he hadn't dealt with the situation effectively.

How's he doing? We heard anything new?

311 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 9:34:19pm

re: #302 freetoken

Well.

At least we still have the leaf.
//

312 freetoken  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 9:34:46pm

re: #304 blueraven

One thing I note is that those torte recipes call for relatively little chocolate. They have more butter, flour, and sugar than chocolate. Most of them appear to be less than 10% chocolate mass.

In my matching exercises I'm using chocolate (bars) from 33% to 85% chocolate solids. Much more difficult.

313 Lidane  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 9:35:04pm

re: #305 Dark_Falcon

And now something to warm Freetoken's heart:

'The Kardashians have zero talent': Bourne Legacy star Jeremy Renner brands reality TV family as 'ridiculous people'

One of many reasons I like Jeremy Renner.

Has anyone here seen his turn in the Bourne series? Movies are a luxury I can't afford these days, and I'm curious how it is.

314 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 9:35:09pm

re: #306 Lidane

Forget being an actress -- if I'd had to live through my 20's with my entire life exposed on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter, I'd probably have ended up in rehab or worse.

I did a lot of really stupid shit back then, and a lot of things I'm not proud of, but I'm thankful every day that the internet hadn't really taken off at that point and that cell phones were clunky and uncommon.

I hear that. Living under an unblinking eye like that would be a horror for me.

315 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 9:35:51pm

re: #294 ggt

Is it just me, but I don't really consider a "psychoanalyst" a doctor. Do they do ANY hard science in school?

Statistics, neurology, some stuff, yes.

And if you're a psychiatrist (which she is not), you've got an M.D.

316 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 9:37:23pm

re: #303 Achilles Tang

Not my field, but I don't know if I agree with that, although it does occur that some crystalline structures can have vibration modes that have a preferential spatial orientation. I don't see how amorphous solids or liquids could.

Ignoring gels, liquids can't support shear forces at all. Solids, even amorphous ones like glass, can within their elastic limit. Beyond that limit they permanently deform, flow like a liquid, or crack/shatter.

317 Mich-again  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 9:38:48pm

re: #297 Dark_Falcon

That was a great read.

318 blueraven  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 9:39:28pm

re: #312 freetoken

One thing I note is that those torte recipes call for relatively little chocolate. They have more butter, flour, and sugar than chocolate. Most of them appear to be less than 10% chocolate mass.

In my matching exercises I'm using chocolate (bars) from 33% to 85% chocolate solids. Much more difficult.

I usually make a flourless torte
chocolate and pears is one of my favs

[Link: curiouslyravenous.blogspot.com...]

319 Mich-again  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 9:39:56pm

re: #306 Lidane

Forget being an actress -- if I'd had to live through my 20's with my entire life exposed on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter, I'd probably have ended up in rehab or worse.

I did a lot of really stupid shit back then, and a lot of things I'm not proud of, but I'm thankful every day that the internet hadn't really taken off at that point and that cell phones were clunky and uncommon.

If there were cell phone cameras back in the day I would probably be in the system.

320 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 9:44:42pm

CNN was apparently told by someone at the DC Center for the LGBT Community that the shooter volunteered for them.

321 Interesting Times  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 9:47:59pm

re: #316 goddamnedfrank

Ignoring gels, liquids can't support shear forces at all.

Just find this amusing in light of the concurrent thread on "baby juice" ;)

322 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 9:48:26pm

re: #317 Mich-again

That was a great read.

Glad you thought so. Too much writing done to criticize is over-the-top these days, relying heavily on angry words and screaming delivery of accusations. Jodie Foster, by sharp contrast, keeps her cool and her descriptions reasonable. Doing so lets her sympathy for Kristen Stewart come through effective, and its makes her critique of today's media culture all the more effective.

323 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 9:51:20pm

re: #320 SanFranciscoZionist

CNN was apparently told by someone at the DC Center for the LGBT Community that the shooter volunteered for them.

Fischer and Geller are going to go nuts with that fact in that morning if its still being claimed. They won't wait to see if its proven true before trotting out their hate-pieces. The Shrieking Harpy will likely compare the DC Center for the LGBT Community to a mosque, and think she has insulted them by so doing.

/spits

324 freetoken  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 9:57:57pm

re: #318 blueraven

I usually make a flourless torte
chocolate and pears is one of my favs

[Link: curiouslyravenous.blogspot.com...]

Pears are of course a "pome" fruit - they are part of the rose family and very closely related to apples and... loquats. Any of these pome fruits make for great combination with chocolate. Something in the fruit - malic acid? - enhances the chocolaty-ness of the chocolate.

You do realize, of course, that the more examples of your cooking you post you will be obliged to mail us samples?

325 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 10:02:59pm

re: #315 SanFranciscoZionist

Statistics, neurology, some stuff, yes.

And if you're a psychiatrist (which she is not), you've got an M.D.

Isn't there a difference between psychoanalyist and psychologist?

326 abolitionist  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 10:04:00pm

re: #316 goddamnedfrank

Ignoring gels, liquids can't support shear forces at all. Solids, even amorphous ones like glass, can within their elastic limit. Beyond that limit they permanently deform, flow like a liquid, or crack/shatter.

At low frequencies, you are right. Typical liquids won't support any significant shear forces. But distinctions between solids and liquids are somewhat subjective, depending on levels of force applied, and the timescales in which they are applied. (For the layman, Gallagher demonstrates familar solids splattering.) At sufficiently high frequencies, some liquids may seem to be more "solid-like" and can support shear forces too, if I remember correctly.

327 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 10:04:15pm

re: #324 freetoken

Pears are of course a "pome" fruit - they are part of the rose family and very closely related to apples and... loquats. Any of these pome fruits make for great combination with chocolate. Something in the fruit - malic acid? - enhances the chocolaty-ness of the chocolate.

You do realize, of course, that the more examples of your cooking you post you will be obliged to mail us samples?

I like chocolate frozen yogurt & banana "milk shakes".

328 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 10:04:48pm

re: #326 abolitionist

At low frequencies, you are right. Typical liquids won't support any significant shear forces. But distinctions between solids and liquids are somewhat subjective, depending on levels of force applied, and the timescales in which they are applied. (For the layman, Gallagher demonstrates familar solids splattering.) At sufficiently high frequencies, some liquids may seem to be more "solid-like" and can support shear forces too, if I remember correctly.

How does all this work with ultrasound and kidney stones?

329 Gus  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 10:07:25pm

re: #320 SanFranciscoZionist

CNN was apparently told by someone at the DC Center for the LGBT Community that the shooter volunteered for them.

He's another crazy.

330 abolitionist  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 10:10:14pm

re: #328 ggt

Sound can be focused and made more intense at a kidney stone. With sufficiently intense sound, the stone(s) can be "pulverized", with little permanent damage to other soft tissue nearby.

331 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 10:16:11pm

Thanks with the self-imposed homework help on polarization! It was a great help.

Where were you-all when I was in High School? I might have gotten past algebra.

night all!

332 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 10:19:17pm

Good Night from me as well.

333 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 10:23:56pm

re: #325 ggt

Isn't there a difference between psychoanalyist and psychologist?

Yes, but a psychologist can also be a psychoanalyst.

Walsh's website says she had a PhD in clinical psych.

334 tshinkle  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 10:32:27pm

"A fanatic hate group that traffics in bigotry" is the description used on a group that believes 3,000 years of civilization wisdom shouldn't suddenly be changed in the name of compassion.

One wonders how to describe Nazi's if that's how the FRC is described.

Words matter, and in these times of top-down compassion at the point of a gun (literally) can lead to these incidents when we don't temper our rhetoric.

335 freetoken  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 10:33:16pm

Getting some play today on the net - we are what we practice:

Black belts’ white matter shows how a powerful punch comes from the brain

[...]

The study, published in the journal Cerebral Cortex, looked for differences in brain structure between 12 karate practitioners with a black belt rank and an average of 13.8 years’ karate experience, and 12 control subjects of similar age who exercised regularly but did not have any martial arts experience.

[...]

Brain scans showed that the microscopic structure in certain regions of the brain differed between the two groups. Each brain region is composed of grey matter, consisting of the main bodies of nerve cells, and white matter, which is mainly made up of bundles of fibres that carry signals from one region to another. The scans used in this study, called diffusion tensor imaging (DTI), detected structural differences in the white matter of parts of the brain called the cerebellum and the primary motor cortex, which are known to be involved in controlling movement.

[...]

I strongly suspect that if they tested other groups which have long practiced coordinated movements - such as dancers or acrobats - that they'd find something similar.

336 JamesWI  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 10:33:59pm

re: #334 tshinkle

LOL

337 freetoken  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 10:34:50pm

I also notice this coming across the transom:


Lost letter experiment suggests wealthy London neighborhoods are 'more altruistic'

I'm sure many different conclusions will be drawn from such experiments.

338 Kragar  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 10:35:48pm

Twit

339 JamesWI  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 10:38:15pm

"Words matter, you treasonous baby-killers!"

340 engineer cat  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 10:38:25pm

re: #334 tshinkle

"A fanatic hate group that traffics in bigotry" is the description used on a group that believes 3,000 years of civilization wisdom shouldn't suddenly be changed in the name of compassion.

well! god forbid we should have any more of this "compassion" stuff!

341 Kragar  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 10:48:10pm

FRC supports the teachings of 3000 years of civilization, as long as it means they're the ones who call the shots.

342 JamesWI  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 10:50:20pm

re: #341 Kragar

FRC supports the teachings of 3000 years of civilization, as long as it means they're the ones who call the shots.it's the one specific civilization they like.

FTFY

343 Kragar  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 10:51:43pm

re: #342 JamesWI

FTFY

Well, parts of one, they toss out the parts they don't like.

344 freetoken  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 10:52:19pm

For the record, NOM has nothing to do with "civilization", but rather is a front for the propagation of particular religious beliefs.

345 blueraven  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 10:58:39pm

re: #324 freetoken

Pears are of course a "pome" fruit - they are part of the rose family and very closely related to apples and... loquats. Any of these pome fruits make for great combination with chocolate. Something in the fruit - malic acid? - enhances the chocolaty-ness of the chocolate.

You do realize, of course, that the more examples of your cooking you post you will be obliged to mail us samples?

Ha...that would be cool wouldn't it? An LGF sampler.

(My internet crapped out for a bit, so I went for ice cream.)

I do love flourless tortes for the reason you mention. You can get a lot more flavor without all those unnecessary ingredients. Moist and very rich.

346 freetoken  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 10:58:42pm

And also FWIW, early "civilization" had more to do with polygamy (or maybe in a few rare cases polyandry) than the NOM approved definition of the nuclear family.

347 dragonath  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 11:00:35pm

FLYING RODENTS RIPPED MY FLESH

348 engineer cat  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 11:02:25pm

re: #346 freetoken

And also FWIW, early "civilization" had more to do with polygamy (or maybe in a few rare cases polyandry) than the NOM approved definition of the nuclear family.

"the bible is the autobiography of a people who practiced slavery, polygamy, and animal sacrifice"

349 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 11:03:16pm

re: #335 freetoken

Getting some play today on the net - we are what we practice:

Black belts’ white matter shows how a powerful punch comes from the brain

I strongly suspect that if they tested other groups which have long practiced coordinated movements - such as dancers or acrobats - that they'd find something similar.

Very interesting.

350 engineer cat  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 11:03:22pm

re: #347 dragonath

FLYING RODENTS RIPPED MY FLESH

and here i thought uncle frank was the one who came up with that!

351 freetoken  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 11:06:42pm

re: #348 engineer cat

"the bible is the autobiography of a people who practiced slavery, polygamy, and animal sacrifice"

And fantasized about genocide.

352 freetoken  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 11:07:36pm

re: #349 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter

There's quite a diverse set of evidence to show that our wiring can be changed by persistent long term use.

And diet, too.

353 engineer cat  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 11:09:47pm

i've been reading the wikipedia article about NOM

surely they can find some other things to do to support the institution of marriage besides fighting gay people

354 Kragar  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 11:10:14pm

re: #347 dragonath

FLYING RODENTS RIPPED MY FLESH

CHEWED TO BITS BY GIANT TURTLES!

355 freetoken  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 11:11:16pm

Here's a question I wish could be answered: why are there no national-level politicians who make it one of their issues to tackle the disinformation campaigns and abuse of authority of religious leaders and institutions?

356 Kragar  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 11:11:56pm

re: #353 engineer cat

i've been reading the wikipedia article about NOM

surely they can find some other things to do to support the institution of marriage besides fighting gay people

Anyone who thinks homosexuals shouldn't get married should do their best to make sure they don't marry someone who happens to be the same sex as them and stop bothering people who think otherwise.

357 Kragar  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 11:12:40pm

re: #355 freetoken

Here's a question I wish could be answered: why are there no national-level politicians who make it one of their issues to tackle the disinformation campaigns and abuse of authority of religious leaders and institutions?

No money in it.

358 freetoken  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 11:13:51pm

re: #357 Kragar

No money in it.

All the money is in selling Jeezzzusss to the masses....

I know there are some here who won't accept this, but in some of his observations Marx was correct.

359 engineer cat  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 11:17:18pm

re: #353 engineer cat

i've been reading the wikipedia article about NOM

surely they can find some other things to do to support the institution of marriage besides fighting gay people

i didn't mean this to read as if i thought that fighting with gay people would have anything to do with supporting the institution of marriage

360 dragonath  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 11:17:57pm

If only Marx was into trains... Paul Ryan would be all over it!

361 engineer cat  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 11:20:36pm

re: #356 Kragar

Anyone who thinks homosexuals shouldn't get married should do their best to make sure they don't marry someone who happens to be the same sex as them and stop bothering people who think otherwise.

i think gay people should be able to enjoy the institution of marriage since they should have the same chance to experience being institutionalized just like the rest of us

362 Kragar  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 11:22:10pm

re: #361 engineer cat

i think gay people should be able to enjoy the institution of marriage since they should have the same chance to experience being institutionalized just like the rest of us

First, you let them get married, next thing you know, they'll be asking to vote and pay taxes.

Wait a second...

363 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 11:22:33pm

re: #334 tshinkle

"A fanatic hate group that traffics in bigotry" is the description used on a group that believes 3,000 years of civilization wisdom shouldn't suddenly be changed in the name of compassion.

One wonders how to describe Nazi's if that's how the FRC is described.

Words matter, and in these times of top-down compassion at the point of a gun (literally) can lead to these incidents when we don't temper our rhetoric.

The fanatic hate group in its own words:

“Gaining access to children has been a long-term goal of the homosexual movement.”
— Robert Knight, FRC director of cultural studies, and Frank York, 1999

“[Homosexuality] … embodies a deep-seated hatred against true religion.”
— Steven Schwalm, FRC senior writer and analyst, in “Desecrating Corpus Christi,” 1999

“One of the primary goals of the homosexual rights movement is to abolish all age of consent laws and to eventually recognize pedophiles as the ‘prophets' of a new sexual order.”
-1999 FRC pamphlet, Homosexual Activists Work to Normalize Sex with Boys.

“[T]he evidence indicates that disproportionate numbers of gay men seek adolescent males or boys as sexual partners.”
— Timothy Dailey, senior research fellow, “Homosexuality and Child Sexual Abuse,” 2002

“While activists like to claim that pedophilia is a completely distinct orientation from homosexuality, evidence shows a disproportionate overlap between the two. … It is a homosexual problem.”
— FRC President Tony Perkins, FRC website, 2010

Face it, they're haters, and whining about '3000 years of civilization wisdom', does not change the fact that they are haters.

They want to hurt people. They want to hurt Americans who love people of their own gender. They want to destroy these people. They want them to have fewer rights than other people. They want to prevent them from having families.

Do not try the 'shame, shame, be nice' talk on me. Let them be nice and stop telling people that gay Americans are predators and child molesters. You think talk like that is OK? Is it civilized? Could it maybe lead to violence?

364 Kragar  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 11:27:15pm

re: #363 SanFranciscoZionist

“Gaining access to children has been a long-term goal of missionary movements."

"No one is born Christian and they can only increase their numbers by active recruitment into the lifestyle."

365 Lidane  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 11:32:08pm

re: #334 tshinkle

'3000 years of civilization wisdom'

Which wisdom are we talking about here?

Are we talking about the wisdom of killing homosexuals, which is what used to happen in "civilized" society? Are we talking about the wisdom that civilized society had in making marriage a transaction that was more about politics or securing property than it was ever about love? Or maybe we're talking about the wisdom that used to find women married off from the moment they got their first periods to much older men so that those men could have as many children as possible? Hey, I know! We're talking about the wisdom in the Bible that had men married to multiple wives and with harems in addition to that because women were nothing but chattel, and the more wives a man had, the richer and more prominent he was.

Please define this "wisdom" that civilized society has supposedly carried around for 3000 years in some sort of unbroken, unchanged tradition, because it sure as hell has never existed.

366 engineer cat  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 11:40:28pm

late night trivia

ayn rand was head of the costume department of RKO studios for a while during the 1930s

367 freetoken  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 11:41:31pm

re: #366 engineer cat

Explains her fascination with fezzes.

368 Kragar  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 11:43:25pm

re: #366 engineer cat

late night trivia

ayn rand was head of the costume department of RKO studios for a while during the 1930s

Actress Hedy Lamarr was one of the inventors of spread spectrum technology, the basis of modern wireless technology.

369 engineer cat  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 11:52:58pm

While completing the novel, [the fountainhead, 1943] Rand was prescribed the amphetamine Benzedrine to fight fatigue. The drug helped her to work long hours to meet her deadline for delivering the finished novel, but when the book was done, she was so exhausted that her doctor ordered two weeks' rest. Her continued use of the drug for approximately three decades may have contributed to what some of her later associates described as volatile mood swings...

...With this fictional strike [atlas shrugged, 1957], Rand intended to illustrate that without the efforts of the rational and productive, the economy would collapse and society would fall apart....

...Despite many negative reviews, Atlas Shrugged became an international bestseller, and in an interview with Mike Wallace, Rand declared herself "the most creative thinker alive". After completing the novel, Rand fell into a severe depression. Atlas Shrugged was Rand's last completed work of fiction; a turning point in her life, it marked the end of Rand's career as a novelist and the beginning of her role as a popular philosopher

hmmmm...

370 Kragar  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 11:54:59pm

re: #369 engineer cat

Youtube Video
371 engineer cat  Wed, Aug 15, 2012 11:59:01pm

Rand declared herself "the most creative thinker alive"

apparently decades of speed abuse made her rant like a cokehead

372 engineer cat  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 12:01:07am

re: #368 Kragar

Actress Hedy Lamarr was one of the inventors of spread spectrum technology, the basis of modern wireless technology.

i was working on software to support cell phone systems in my last job and managed to learn enough about rf transmission technology to almost understand what she did

373 freetoken  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 12:01:50am

I notice that the Salem Communications outlets are falling all over themselves with this story (of the shooting.)

Somehow it is supposed to prove that all those other shootings linked to right wing nut jobs either don't exist, or were only anomalies when the real threat is homosexuals.

374 Kragar  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 12:02:00am

re: #371 engineer cat

Rand declared herself "the most creative thinker alive"

apparently decades of speed abuse made her rant like a cokehead

She could of declared herself Czarina of Istanbul for all the the weight her pronouncements had.

375 Kragar  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 12:03:55am

re: #372 engineer cat

i was working on software to support cell phone systems in my last job and managed to learn enough about rf transmission technology to almost understand what she did

At the time, she was patted on the head by the War Department and told "That's nice, why don't you go out and get people to buy war bonds and let us men fight the war?"

376 freetoken  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 12:34:18am
MP3 Audio
377 freetoken  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 1:00:32am
MP3 Audio
378 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 1:54:39am

Already shaken by a series of high-level defections, accounts of abuse among its staffers, and the high-profile breakup of Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes, the Church of Scientology now faces scrutiny over its controversial drug treatment program, Narconon.

Four deaths at Narconon's signature treatment facility in eastern Oklahoma have prompted local law enforcement and health officials to investigate the center and its program.
[Link: www.tampabay.com...]

Kooks.
And good morning honcos.

379 freetoken  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 2:32:29am

The human voice is probably the ultimate musical instrument, since we are genetically programmed to respond to it. I've been exploring some choral music, but can't quite find that for what I am looking... but I have come across some interesting stuff, some beautiful stuff... and some just weird.

Here is a piece, "Barbecue", from a musical theatre production called Suburb the Musical, by contemporary composer Robert S. Cohen:

MP3 Audio
380 William of Orange  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 2:33:00am

Meanwhile....


Totally unrelated but given that the availability of contraceptives is a hot item in the current health care debate, here's a story from my residence, The Netherlands.


Number of teen-moms lower than ever in the Netherlands.

In the Netherlands there are less and less teenage pregancies than ever. According to statistics agency CBS five girls in a 1000 that were mothers, a historic low.

In total 2365 girls under the age of 20 became mothers. Girls of Antillian decent were six time more prone to get pregnant than native Dutch girls. The lowest rate of teenage pregancy was with girls of Turkish decent.

The birth rate of Dutch teenage mothers is sinking for years now. In Europe only in Switzerland the rate is even lower. The most teenage pregnancy occur in Bulgary, followed by Rumania and Great Brittain.

This is what a healthy health care system does. It prevents unwanted teenage pregnancies from happening.

381 Obdicut  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 2:54:32am

My wife is about to leave for four days on a retreat. I'm going to install Linux so I can dual-boot and learn Ruby on Rails. Does anyone have any particular Linux distro they love? I'm thinking OpenSUSE.

382 AK-47%  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 3:43:24am

re: #380 William of Orange

Number of teen-moms lower than ever in the Netherlands.


This is what a healthy health care system does. It prevents unwanted teenage pregnancies from happening.

Unless it is teaching them Abstinence Only, it is jut breeding another generation of teenage sluts on birth control!

383 ozbloke  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 3:44:46am

re: #381 Obdicut

My wife is about to leave for four days on a retreat. I'm going to install Linux so I can dual-boot and learn Ruby on Rails. Does anyone have any particular Linux distro they love? I'm thinking OpenSUSE.

Just a view.

If I want a web server with no gui, I would go debian, it hangs back a bit from cutting edge latest released packages by default, and its stable packages are tried and tested. I have been using debian for web hosting for over fifteen years.
Keep it updated, wonderfully faithful.
Even with a web facing server, It can be 3 to 5 years without reboots on some of mime.

If its a home system, and you like the gadgets and apps to make it fun, Id go ubuntu, though it requires reasonable hardware. Its easy to install and has all the current apps you may require.

384 Obdicut  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 3:55:07am

re: #383 ozbloke

Ah, sorry, I should have mentioned why I'm doing it.

I'm just looking for a clean, stripped-down environment to do programming in. For whatever reason, I find it easier to learn new things, especially technical things, in an uncluttered environment. I want to be able to use SVN or some other version control system.

In addition, I want to learn Linux because the thing I'm going to be programming is a web app, and will eventually live on a web server, and so that'll almost certainly be Linux.

So I don't really want the fun so much as the utility, and the Linux distro that will strike a good balance between me learning the guts of it and having enough backbone to it that I can get started pretty quickly.

OpenSUSE was my thought partially because I like the open part, and partially because a friend of mine used to be CTO for it while he was at Novell. It sounds like you'd recommend Debian, since what I want is the utility + eventual move to web.

385 Obdicut  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 3:58:10am

Oh, and is there any reason I can't dual-boot with installs on two different hard-drives? Would I have to flip the boot order in the bios every time I wanted to switch OSes, or can a boot menu detect OSes across different hard drives?

386 ozbloke  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 3:59:48am

Obdi,

I can't say what's best, as I don't use them all. but I am speaking from a place where debian has been excellent for me over many many years.

Its opensource, and well supported with public forums.

I'm a penguin lizard.

387 ozbloke  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 4:01:55am

When you install debian, it will search and detect any other OS's it finds across any drives connected to the system, and will add them to the boot menu.

388 Obdicut  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 4:03:57am

re: #386 ozbloke

Gotcha. Thanks very much for the replies. This'll be fun.

389 compound_Idaho  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 4:05:32am

More than $1B in client's money "missing" and no charges. Hard to believe.
[Link: dealbook.nytimes.com...]

It is not legal to use client accounts to cover the company's losses.

390 ozbloke  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 4:07:14am

The only issue I found, which was a few years ago now, was that after you install debian/linux, if you need to restore or re-install a windows partition, windows doesn't respect the boot manager, and over writes it.
So that will probably be true for all/most linux distro's.
Thanks Bill

The boot menu can be re-installed, but it was a pain in the arse to do...

391 Obdicut  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 4:13:08am

re: #390 ozbloke

Luckily, Windows 8 looks like shit and I don't want any part of it, so I don't foresee having to reinstall windows anytime soon.

392 ozbloke  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 4:15:21am

I haven't bothered to look at it, but I have heard its very different from Windows 7.

Big jumps are always hard to overcome, unless they offer something vastly better.

393 Obdicut  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 4:17:07am

re: #392 ozbloke

It looks like a half-crippled attempt to build something for touch-screens, which they then for some reason decided to hammer into the shape of a main desktop OS. It's pretty fucking weird.

394 ozbloke  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 4:27:31am

re: #393 Obdicut

It looks like a half-crippled attempt to build something for touch-screens, which they then for some reason decided to hammer into the shape of a main desktop OS. It's pretty fucking weird.

If I ever find a spare few hours I'd like to have a play with it.
Just to see for myself.

Iv'e heard that before, that it seems like they are trying to do a touch screen type thing.
If you go and peek at the latest ubuntu os, its very much like your mobile phone in that you can embed widgets on to your desktop.

At home here, I have heaps of crap embedded., news feed, weather, comic strips facebook the list goes on.

Its not too bad, if you need/use a lot of apps/utilities at the same time.

395 Shropshire_Slasher  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 4:29:54am

re: #381 Obdicut

Take it easy, not so fast, you might sprain something!
/

396 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 5:58:37am

re: #347 dragonath

FLYING RODENTS RIPPED MY FLESH

Back in the old days of playing D&D I put large carnivorous flying squirrels in a campaign. Since they're nocturnal and very silent when gliding they were quite a surprise to those they attacked. They also spawned a lot of remarks about watching out for wayward moose.

397 Shropshire_Slasher  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:11:21am

Instant Karma is gonna getchya
[Link: www.nypost.com...]
Choked on his chicken, teehee!

398 Mattand  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:11:40am

re: #392 ozbloke

I haven't bothered to look at it, but I have heard its very different from Windows 7.

Big jumps are always hard to overcome, unless they offer something vastly better.

re: #393 Obdicut

I've been noodling around with Win 8 on my iMac. IMO, the big problem is they have dueling GUIs. Upon launch, you're presented with the interface formerly known as Metro. That actually looks good, and should work well on touchscreen devices.

The problem is that the user has to dig to get to the desktop and the Windows Explorer file management system. It's easily accessed by hitting the Windows key. However, this is going to confuse most average Windows users, AKA just about everyone on the freaking planet.

MS should actually be given credit for trying to update their OS, but most people can't handle finding a document in their home folder. This transition is not going to be pretty.

399 Obdicut  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:19:59am

re: #398 Mattand

I actually hate the way Metro looks, too. I dunno why, but it really irritates me on a visceral level.

You're totally right about the dueling GUIs, and I think it's complicated by the fact there's already dueling UXes in Windows 7. The fastest way for me to access or launch most programs is going to the search bar and typing it in. This doesn't work for some programs that are stores oddly (like games on Steam) but it's generally great. Likewise, it's the easiest way to find a file, folder, or anything at all, as long as you named it remotely intelligently.

I feel like most Windows 7 users have no clue how good that ability is, and underuse it. Most people I see using Windows 7 access their files the old-fashioned way, by digging through folders until they find it, or by going to the start menu and finding the program.

A lot of people see this as a positive, that MS is letting people decide how they want to find their profiles, but it actually irritates me as a neither-fish-nor-fowl solution, where the search function doesn't work perfectly and digging through file folders is clunky as hell.

I'd give them more credit for trying to update if they actually restricted themselves to one GUI and made it fantastic, rather than trying to cover their bases while still changing enough shit around to make most people uncomfortably lost.

400 abolitionist  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:22:55am

re: #371 engineer cat

Rand declared herself "the most creative thinker alive"

apparently decades of speed abuse made her rant like a cokehead

Apparently Rand never heard of Paul Erdős --who published more papers than any other mathematician in history,[2] working with hundreds of collaborators. He was dependent on amphetamines too. But unlike Rand, his career would have likely stagnated without them.

401 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:39:05am

re: #399 Obdicut

Has MS implemented a working file/folder text search program yet? I know they have one, but I mean one that will actually find a text string that you know exists when you ask it to.

VAX/VMS spoiled me in that regard since they had one that worked. So with the MS Windows stuff I end up using 3rd party utilities like FileLocator Pro.

402 Obdicut  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:39:39am

re: #400 abolitionist

My wife's Erdős number is 3, and she's a cancer researcher. Shows how wide Erdős's stuff was.

403 Obdicut  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:40:50am

re: #401 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

You mean, searching for a text string inside the document or set of documents?

I don't know. I hand-coded something like that a long time ago in VB when I was working a transcriptionist job.

It's not a problem I've run into recently, so I haven't had to accommodate it.

404 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:44:55am

re: #401 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Has MS implemented a working file/folder text search program yet? I know they have one, but I mean one that will actually find a text string that you know exists when you ask it to.

VAX/VMS spoiled me in that regard since they had one that worked. So with the MS Windows stuff I end up using 3rd party utilities like FileLocator Pro.

I should have never sold my Vaxstation 4000/vlc. There is nothing else quite like a VAX running VMS. That was almost as good as a Lisp Machine. At least I can force various varieties of Unix to come close enough to be usable.

405 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:47:39am

re: #403 Obdicut

You mean, searching for a text string inside the document or set of documents?

I don't know. I hand-coded something like that a long time ago in VB when I was working a transcriptionist job.

It's not a problem I've run into recently, so I haven't had to accommodate it.

Pretty much. I need to do it all the time in one of my task sets. Maintain a set of SQL procedures and view code. The files defining them are in a set of folders. So searching the folders for a text string can save a bundle of time trying to find the specific piece of code (or field) to look at.

(Yes, it can be done within the SQL database itself using its utilities, but that would require me to do a remote logon to a server in another country and then muck around with the latency of the network and also the notoriously short timeout periods on these servers.)

406 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:50:24am

re: #404 William Barnett-Lewis

I should have never sold my Vaxstation 4000/vlc. There is nothing else quite like a VAX running VMS. That was almost as good as a Lisp Machine. At least I can force various varieties of Unix to come close enough to be usable.

In one of my current company's recent purchases we ended up with a VAX/VMS combo that is still required to run some esoteric process. Next to impossible to find parts for, and for now no ability to replace it.

I'm half-surprised the P&O (People and Organization) did not start digging around to see who in the IT organization might have experience with VAX/VMS operation and associated programming. We have a few, but they are in the US and the system in question is in Germany.

407 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 6:56:54am

re: #406 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

In one of my current company's recent purchases we ended up with a VAX/VMS combo that is still required to run some esoteric process. Next to impossible to find parts for, and for now no ability to replace it.

I'm half-surprised the P&O (People and Organization) did not start digging around to see who in the IT organization might have experience with VAX/VMS operation and associated programming. We have a few, but they are in the US and the system in question is in Germany.

What part of Germany? I could almost be tempted to apply ;)

408 darthstar  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:00:48am

Mornin' folks...

409 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:03:17am

re: #407 William Barnett-Lewis

What part of Germany? I could almost be tempted to apply ;)

Given the timing from which I heard about this secondhand I'd say over near Halle (Saxony-Anhult).

410 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:07:40am

Ah, up north in former East areas. My time in the Army was down in Bavaria. What little German I remember would sound like hillbilly land to them :D If I were single I'd be seriously tempted but I doubt the boss & boss jr. would appreciate it as much as me...

411 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:12:23am

re: #410 William Barnett-Lewis

Ah, up north in former East areas. My time in the Army was down in Bavaria. What little German I remember would sound like hillbilly land to them :D If I were single I'd be seriously tempted but I doubt the boss & boss jr. would appreciate it as much as me...

I didn't get over there during my jaunt n company business in April. Spent a week and a half just south of Cologne at a location there. Luckily, most people's English there is more functional than my German.

Hmm, free lunch today. And there was a tasty 3"x4" shortbread cookie on my desk this morning. (Being eaten right now with a nice cup of tea.) Company is celebrating it's 10th anniversary.

412 makeitstop  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:14:09am

Wasn't I seeing a lot of stories yesterday proclaiming that the race was now a dead heat after Ryan signed on?

It didn't take long for that particular pendulum to swing back, I guess.

Poll: Obama opens up 5-point lead in Michigan

Poll: Obama leads Romney by 6 in PA

413 Targetpractice  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:15:17am

re: #412 makeitstop

Wasn't I seeing a lot of stories yesterday proclaiming that the race was now a dead heat after Ryan signed on?

It didn't take long for that particular pendulum to swing back, I guess.

Poll: Obama opens up 5-point lead in Michigan

Poll: Obama leads Romney by 6 in PA

I'm not really looking at the polls til next week. Give the "excitement" of his jumping into the race time to filter into the polls and people to get a measure of who the little prick really is.

414 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:15:51am

re: #412 makeitstop

Wasn't I seeing a lot of stories yesterday proclaiming that the race was now a dead heat after Ryan signed on?

It didn't take long for that particular pendulum to swing back, I guess.

Poll: Obama opens up 5-point lead in Michigan

Poll: Obama leads Romney by 6 in PA

It's a horse race where one horse is dancing while the other one is running.
/

415 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:18:32am

Good morning lizards!

416 Targetpractice  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:19:00am

re: #415 NJDhockeyfan

Good morning lizards!

Morning? What madness do you speak of?

//

417 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:20:20am

re: #416 Targetpractice

Morning? What madness do you speak of?

//

The sun is shining, it's a crisp 75 degrees, not humid, it's just an awesome start to the day :)

418 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:24:04am

It's "Pine Car Day" at work, which means everyone gets to goof off and attend the little car races. In previous years they gave out T-shirts in departmental colors for everyone, but this year they just told everyone "Look up your department color on the team intranet and wear that color."

419 Lidane  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:45:13am

Could these guys please find a narrative and stick to it?

Romney: Ryan No Longer Supports His Plan’s Medicare Cuts

Mitt Romney’s efforts to attack President Obama’s $716 billion in Medicare savings have been complicated by the fact that his running mate Rep. Paul Ryan embraced the same cuts in his sweeping budget blueprint.

But on Wednesday, Romney dealt with that by declaring that Ryan now wants to roll back the cuts, which don’t touch benefits and only affect what the government reimburses to health care providers.

“Well, first of all, Congressman Ryan has joined my campaign and his campaign is my campaign now. And we’re on the exactly the same page,” Romney told CBS News. “And my campaign has made it very clear: The president’s cuts of $716 billion to Medicare — those cuts are going to be restored if I become president and Paul Ryan becomes vice president.”

The cuts, which were adopted under the Affordable Care Act, extend the life of Medicare by eight years, according to the Congressional Budget Office. Republicans unanimously voted against ‘Obamacare’ but nearly all voted for the Ryan proposal that kept the cuts.

Worst. Campaign. Ever.

420 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:47:15am

With surge in kidnappings, Lebanon veers toward 'major chaos'

BEIRUT: The kidnappings Wednesday of over two dozen Syrians, a Turkish national and one Saudi citizen by a local Lebanese clan in retaliation for the abduction of one of its kinsmen in Damascus has edged this small Mediterranean country closer to major chaos, political sources warned.

Arab reactions to the kidnappings – travel advisories by Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Kuwait and the United Arab Emirates that their citizens should leave the country immediately – cast further doubts over Lebanon’s ability to weather the unrest in its eastern neighbor Syria.

“What happened today is a clear indication that we are [on] the brink of major chaos in Lebanon,” a senior political source, who spoke on condition of anonymity, told The Daily Star Thursday.

“The storm in Syria has reached Lebanon now and there is no going back,” the source added.

That sounds troublesome.

421 Targetpractice  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:47:53am

re: #419 Lidane

Could these guys please find a narrative and stick to it?

Romney: Ryan No Longer Supports His Plan’s Medicare Cuts

Worst. Campaign. Ever.

And yet, apparently Paul Rand's appearance on the ticket has thrown the EV numbers into disarray. This time last week, Obama was projected to get close to 330 electoral votes, now he's down to just over 280. Shit, it's even put Florida and Virginia back into play.

422 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:48:51am

Soundbite theatre.

Soon the Romney campaign will have the full library allowing them to espouse an opinion on any issue from either side. Thus allowing them to pander more effectively to the prejudices of any audience being communicated with dictated to.

Consistency in political policy is a liberal concept when there is money involved.

423 bubba zanetti  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 7:59:53am

re: #384 Obdicut

Why not just run linux in a VM like VirtualBox or VMWare? Then you'll have the full server experience. And you can always move the VM image to a new computer.

424 Mattand  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:04:05am

re: #421 Targetpractice

And yet, apparently Paul Rand's appearance on the ticket has thrown the EV numbers into disarray. This time last week, Obama was projected to get close to 330 electoral votes, now he's down to just over 280. Shit, it's even put Florida and Virginia back into play.

How is this even possible? How could a VP who wants to literally do away with Medicare poll positive in FL?

Are voters really that fucking stupid?

425 makeitstop  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:04:34am

re: #419 Lidane

Could these guys please find a narrative and stick to it?

Romney: Ryan No Longer Supports His Plan’s Medicare Cuts

Worst. Campaign. Ever.

It's pathetic how they're deflecting from the details of Ryan's plan by saying 'Romney's plan is different - while the Romney campaign has not released any details of the 'different' plan.

This campaign is a fucking shell game. I've seen more honesty from people who run MLM schemes.

426 Mocking Jay  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:04:55am

re: #421 Targetpractice

And yet, apparently Paul Rand's appearance on the ticket has thrown the EV numbers into disarray. This time last week, Obama was projected to get close to 330 electoral votes, now he's down to just over 280. Shit, it's even put Florida and Virginia back into play.

Freudian slip?

427 Targetpractice  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:06:41am

re: #426 Mocking Jay

Freudian slip?

Nah, one of our fellow lizards coined it the other day and, like using Willard, it's stuck on me. Think it rather accurately describes the little prince.

428 Targetpractice  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:08:55am

re: #424 Mattand

How is this even possible? How could a VP who wants to literally do away with Medicare poll positive in FL?

Are voters really that fucking stupid?

Yes, they are. The Romney campaign's out there right now, trying to assure the elderly vote that Ryan didn't really mean all those things said about turning Medicare into a voucher program, that the "Romney Plan" will totally avoid doing any such thing while also balancing the budget, solving world hunger, and whitening our teeth.

429 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:12:32am

Back when I was a kid and we were bored we went fishing or took out bicycles for a long ride. Times have changed.
Ugh.

Cops: Teens beat man because 'they were just bored'

A man in Ohio was severely beaten by six teenage boys who said they did so because they were bored, police allege.

Pat Mahaney was walking home from the store in North College, Ohio, Saturday with a six-pack of beer, looking forward to a quiet evening watching sports, when something hit him in the back of the head.

“They came from behind. They hit me,” Mahaney told the Cincinnati Enquirer. “I don’t remember telling them anything.”

Police said the six boys, ages 13 and 14, “were just bored and looking for something to do” when they ambushed Mahaney from behind. He was immediately knocked unconscious. During the attack, one of the boys hurled a beer can at Mahaney’s head, police said.

“The next thing I knew I woke up on my neighbor’s front step and the life squad was there,” Mahaney, 45, said.

...Mahaney was taken to Mercy Mount Airy Hospital, where he was treated for four days before being released Tuesday. Police said doctors had to insert a tube down his throat to remove all of the blood from his stomach.

A tube remained in his right nostril as blood continued to seep out of his head, the Cincinnati Enquirer reported, and his left eye is heavily blackened.

430 makeitstop  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:14:08am

My love affair with Soledad O'Brien continues.

All the beautiful sounds of the world in a single word: Balloon Juice

Pawlenty suggests that Soledad O’Brien doesn’t understand English (and gets smacked)

She's one of the few talking heads in this country who is actually doing her job.

431 Interesting Times  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:15:33am
432 bubba zanetti  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:20:18am

re: #384 Obdicut

Another option is to jump straight to a server - Amazon EC2 micro instances are free for the first year. Save your projects in Github, and if you screw up royally just kill your instance, boot up a new one, and clone your code back on it.

There are probably EC2 AMIs already set up for learning Ruby with everything installed and ready to go.

Then locally on your Windows box you'll PuTTY for sshing in, and a basic code editor - take a look at Komodo Edit or Coda.

433 Mattand  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:20:19am

re: #428 Targetpractice

Yes, they are. The Romney campaign's out there right now, trying to assure the elderly vote that Ryan didn't really mean all those things said about turning Medicare into a voucher program, that the "Romney Plan" will totally avoid doing any such thing while also balancing the budget, solving world hunger, and whitening our teeth.

I hate to go all "MSM is the root of all evil", but Jon Stewart ran a piece the other night showing said MSM canonizing Ryan as a "serious and brave" candidate. Naturally, Stewart took all of 18 seconds to show what this guy's record actually was.

I wonder if this uptick has something to do with most media refusing to actually look at his record. Soledad O'Brien is my personal hero right now; she's actually researching this guy.

434 Amory Blaine  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:20:35am

Thompson will not release personal tax documents

WAUKESHA - Former Governor Tommy Thompson made his first public appearance since taking Tuesday's primary. He spoke at Husco International in Waukesha.

Thompson rejected calls to release years of personal tax documents.

"When I was governor and I was employed by the people of the State of Wisconsin, I released my tax returns, but I've been in the business world," Thompson said. "The question is, 'am I going to release my tax returns?' The answer is 'no'."

Thompson stood firm when pressed by reporters.

"No," Thompson said. "The answer is N-O. What part don't you understand?"

Appears to be a trend among republicans to hide their tax returns while at the same times calling for tax cuts that benefit the upper class. If GOP members can speculate, so can I. What are these dirty fucking crooks hiding?

435 Kragar  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:22:00am

Family Research Council Opposes Hate Crimes Law That Shooter Could Be Prosecuted Under

Floyd Corkins, the 28-year-old Virginia man who allegedly shot a security guard in the Family Research Council headquarters in Washington, D.C. on Wednesday because of the group’s opposition to gay marriage, could be prosecuted under a hate crimes statute. The FRC would rather he wasn’t.

While the FRC has specifically opposed expanding hate crimes protections to individuals targeted for violent attacks because of their sexual orientation or gender identity because they believe it “sends the false message that deviant sexual behaviors are somehow equivalent to other categories of protection such as race or sex,” the group also opposes any hate crimes law on principle.

“Violent attacks upon people or property are already illegal, regardless of the motive behind them. With ‘hate crime’ laws, however, people are essentially given one penalty for the actions they engaged in, and an additional penalty for the politically incorrect thoughts that allegedly motivated those actions,” the group states on its website.

436 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:24:30am

re: #433 Mattand

I hate to go all "MSM is the root of all evil", but Jon Stewart ran a piece the other night showing said MSM canonizing Ryan as a "serious and brave" candidate. Naturally, Stewart took all of 18 seconds to show what this guy's record actually was.

I wonder if this uptick has something to do with most media refusing to actually look at his record. Soledad O'Brien is my personal hero right now; she's actually researching this guy.

Wouldn't get too bent by a couple polls. Nate Silver has good perspective on the Ryan bounce--about 1%. (Yeah, 1% can be critical, but the bounce was less than average, and bounces fade.)

[Link: fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com...]

437 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:25:05am

re: #434 Amory Blaine

Thompson will not release personal tax documents

Appears to be a trend among republicans to hide their tax returns while at the same times calling for tax cuts that benefit the upper class. If GOP members can speculate, so can I. What are these dirty fucking crooks hiding?

Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi have been demanding Romney release his tax returns yet neither of them will release theirs.

It goes both ways.

438 Targetpractice  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:25:53am

re: #433 Mattand

I hate to go all "MSM is the root of all evil", but Jon Stewart ran a piece the other night showing said MSM canonizing Ryan as a "serious and brave" candidate. Naturally, Stewart took all of 18 seconds to show what this guy's record actually was.

I wonder if this uptick has something to do with most media refusing to actually look at his record. Soledad O'Brien is my personal hero right now; she's actually researching this guy.

It's like I've been saying, the MSM's invested in this being a long-term horse race all the way to the finish, and part of that requires avoiding all the dark little corners of Ryan's views and beliefs. Right now, the best they can do is offer ambiguity, going "Well, now that he's on the campaign, we don't know what he really believes."

Apparently history restarted last Saturday.

439 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:27:59am

re: #433 Mattand

I hate to go all "MSM is the root of all evil", but Jon Stewart ran a piece the other night showing said MSM canonizing Ryan as a "serious and brave" candidate. Naturally, Stewart took all of 18 seconds to show what this guy's record actually was.

I wonder if this uptick has something to do with most media refusing to actually look at his record. Soledad O'Brien is my personal hero right now; she's actually researching this guy.

What does it tell you when Jon Stewart, a comedian on the Comedy Channel, does more actual journalism than a lot of the so-called journalists in the news media?

440 Amory Blaine  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:29:09am

re: #439 Learned Mother of Zion

What does it tell you when Jon Stewart, a comedian on the Comedy Channel, does more actual journalism than a lot of the so-called journalists in the news media?

It tells me this country is totally fucked. And when I say "this country" I mean the middle and lower class.

441 Interesting Times  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:29:16am

Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi aren't running for president. Romney is.

Obama/Biden have released 12 years of tax returns.

Romney/Ryan have not.

It's that simple.

as for the WI senate race, if Democratic candidate Tammy Baldwin releases her returns, she can easily make her opponent Tommy Thompson look like a douche for refusing to do so :)

442 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:31:49am

Artur Davis Calls Out Biden for His "Chains" Remark

Artur Davis, former Alabama Democratic representative and candidate for governor, has taken another step toward earning his Republican stripes. The recent convert weighed in on Vice President Joe Biden's controversial remarks about the Republican Party's alleged goal to "unshackle" the nation's banking system would put "y'all back in chains" before a largely African-American audience at a campaign event in Virginia the day before.

"When I heard him reach to the bottom of the deck and talk about one party putting people in chains, when I heard someone that I admired and had been on platforms with talk about ordinary conservative principles as being essential racial viciousness, because that’s the allegation he was making yesterday, I was disappointed by it," Davis said on CNN's The Situation Room with Wolf Blitzer. "It's a divisive tactic that's insulting to African-Americans," Davis said. "It's insulting to the American people. It's insulting to the legacy that he used to build up as an orator who used to know how to inspire people instead of strike fear in people's heart."

443 Kronocide  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:32:46am

re: #21 Killgore Trout

Since I'm sadly absent from the bottom comments list I'll go ahead and say this...
I agree with the designation as a hate group. Hate groups are real and deserve to be called out as such. Just yesterday I called Mondoweiss a hate blog, the description fits.
The saddest element in this case is this guy seemed to be making a statement about chicken sandwiches. It almost got people killed over chicken sandwiches. Hate is one thing but the real problem comes from fear. Once people become convinced that elections are going to be stolen, theocracy installed, gays rounded up, then bad things happen. It's insecurity and fear that drives this kind of action. Even here on LGF we had people postulating that chicken restaurants could be denied business licences because the politics of the owners could be dangerous to local communities. There is no danger from chicken sandwich sellers. There is no danger from the Klan. There is no danger from burning a flag or a quran. Once you start taking the attitude of showing no tolerance for the intolerant you become the latter, not the former.
All this over chicken sandwiches.

Huh whut? You don't think the Family Research Council is a hate group? 'There is no danger from the Klan' is just stupid: do you consider them a hate group?

I don't know what you mean about chicken sandwiches, if this is some meta joke. Here at LGF we discussed if Chick-Fil-A restaurants could be denied permits to open a franchise, which is a valid discussion. Seems like you're making a 'becoming what you hate' speech.

444 Kragar  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:33:01am

Mississippi River Reaches Historic Lows: ‘We Have 50-Year Guys Who’ve Never Seen Anything Like This Before’


In July, water levels in Cairo, Memphis, Tenn., and Vicksburg, Miss., dipped below those of the historic drought of 1988. That’s affecting everything from commerce on the maritime superhighway to recreation to the drinking water in Louisiana.

The biggest impact may be on shipping. “It’s getting near critical,” said Austin Golding, a third-generation co-owner of Vicksburg, Miss.-based Golding Barge Lines. “Without more rain, we’re heading into uncharted territory.”

About $180 billion worth of goods move up and down the river on barges, 500 million tons of the basic ingredients for much of the U.S. economy, according to the American Waterways Operators, a trade group. It carries 60 percent of the nation’s grain, 22 percent of the oil and gas and 20 percent of the coal, according to American Waterways Operators. It would take 60 trailer trucks to carry the cargo in just one barge, 144 18-wheeler tankers to carry the oil and gas in one petroleum barge.

Last year’s flooding moved a large amount of soil and silt into the river, making the problem worse by elevating the riverbed:

Because of that sediment in a flood, “as the ceiling rises, so does the floor,” said Golding. “We’ve just dealt with a historic flood, then the water drops.… We have some 50-year guys who’ve never seen anything like this before. It’s a completely different river than anybody’s ever seen.”

445 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:33:52am

re: #439 Learned Mother of Zion

Jon Stewart has no huge interest in a close race or controversy real and imagined. All he has to do is make us laugh, which our candidates often do without wanting to.

446 Targetpractice  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:34:28am

re: #444 Kragar

Mississippi River Reaches Historic Lows: ‘We Have 50-Year Guys Who’ve Never Seen Anything Like This Before’

Denier: "This stuff goes in cycles! It's been bad before!"

Realist: "There's people who've been around for 50+ years who've never seen things this bad before."

Denier: "Well, that's because the last time it was really this bad was farther back!"

447 Kronocide  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:36:02am

re: #437 NJDhockeyfan

Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi have been demanding Romney release his tax returns yet neither of them will release theirs.

It goes both ways.

Balance fail. They're not running for the office of President.

448 Interesting Times  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:36:24am

Prognostic LGF commenter makeitstop wins one Internet.

449 Targetpractice  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:37:17am

re: #448 Interesting Times

[Embedded content]

Prognostic LGF commenter makeitstop wins one Internet.

Yeah, who didn't see that coming. Seriously, I'd have been more shocked if he'd stepped out on stage and told folks that Romney's promised to make him Secretary of the Treasury.

450 Gus  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:37:21am

'Morning...

Baby juice.

451 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:38:04am

re: #447 Kronocide

Balance fail. They're not running for the office of President.

Neither is Tommy Thompson.

452 Obdicut  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:38:08am

re: #447 Kronocide

Balance fail. They're not running for the office of President.

I'm asking for Mitt Romney's tax returns, and i'm also not running for president.

453 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:38:16am

re: #434 Amory Blaine

Thompson will not release personal tax documents

Appears to be a trend among republicans to hide their tax returns while at the same times calling for tax cuts that benefit the upper class. If GOP members can speculate, so can I. What are these dirty fucking crooks hiding?

Remembering what Corrupt Tommy was like as Governor, the next question out of reporter's mouths should be "Why? What are you hiding?"

Please bear in mind that Tommy was simply the least dangerous of the four scum running in the primary and that, more than anything, is probably why he won. Bet there were more crossover Democrats voting for him than there were Republicans given the Teabagger Takeover. I know I think the Dem candidate is too liberal to win outside Madison & Milwaukee even with Obama winning the state so I voted for Tommy on Tuesday as the least damaging alternative. Ugh! I'll still need to go and beg penance at church on Sunday...

454 makeitstop  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:38:42am

re: #448 Interesting Times

[Embedded content]

Prognostic LGF commenter makeitstop wins one Internet.

My predictions are generally the worst. That was an easy call to make.

The GOP convention should have been held in Wisconsin this year, what with all the cheese they'll be rolling out.

455 Interesting Times  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:40:01am

re: #451 NJDhockeyfan

Neither is Tommy Thompson.

So is that an indirect way of saying Romney should release his returns? :)

456 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:43:20am

re: #455 Interesting Times

So is that an indirect way of saying Romney should release his returns? :)

If it's required then yes, if not then it's up to him.

457 Lidane  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:44:01am

re: #454 makeitstop

My predictions are generally the worst. That was an easy call to make.

The GOP convention should have been held in Wisconsin this year, what with all the cheese they'll be rolling out.

Ah, but now they get to be in Retiree Central and with the guy who wants to gut Medicare as the VP candidate.

458 Kronocide  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:44:07am

re: #451 NJDhockeyfan

Neither is Tommy Thompson.

President, Governor, members of congress.

Private sector business people running for office, public sector politicians in office.

Can you tell the difference?

Oh.... Democrat, GOP. There you go.

459 Gus  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:44:38am

New Study Suggests Stressed Out Men Prefer Women With More “Meat On the Bones”

...Sex therapist Dr. Wendy Walsh told Stuart Varney, hosting Your World today, that it’s only natural.

“They like women to carry a little more body fat, if you believe this study, and some people suggest it’s linked to our anthropological past [...] maybe when those hunters were in a time of famine, they wanted to have a meaty woman to deposit their ‘baby juice’ in, so that their offspring would survive,” she said...

460 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:46:21am

re: #447 Kronocide

Balance fail. They're not running for the office of President.

But... but... Mitt is special! Any prevailing custom about POTUS candidates releashing returns doesn't apply to him. His father helped set a precedent, so he can go set a new one.
//

461 Targetpractice  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:46:22am

re: #457 Lidane

Ah, but now they get to be in Retiree Central and with the guy who wants to gut Medicare as the VP candidate.

Hey now, Romney says that Ryan's plans for Medicare don't matter, because his campaign's writing up a new plan and that it's totally gonna be awesome. We just gotta wait and see.

///

462 Gus  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:46:44am

Poll: Tammy Duckworth Leads Joe Walsh By 9 Points

463 Kronocide  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:47:32am

I am announcing my candidacy for the Office of Precedent Setting of the United States!

464 makeitstop  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:47:54am

re: #462 Gus

Poll: Tammy Duckworth Leads Joe Walsh By 9 Points

Good. Walsh truly deserves a historical (political) ass-whupping. Go Tammy!

465 wrenchwench  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:48:01am

Sam Youngman is at a Ryan speech right now:

466 blueraven  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:50:12am

re: #442 NJDhockeyfan

Artur Davis Calls Out Biden for His "Chains" Remark

So when is he going to call out Herman Cain and Allen West who both repeatedly tell African Americans that the Democratic party has enslaved them?

Cry me a freaking river.

467 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:50:31am

re: #448 Interesting Times

Prognostic LGF commenter makeitstop wins one Internet.

Rush will heartily approve since it is obviously satire...
:p

The GOP sense of humor needs a trip to the shop for adjustment. You don't have someone (even as a joke) "fire" the POTUS - even if you're using an impersonator.

To quote _Band of Brother_'s Major Winter - "Salute the rank, not the person."

468 Kronocide  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:50:34am

Walkbacks and admitting you're wrong is for pussies.

469 Gus  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:52:56am

Party courting birther (cough, racism), Donald Trump, for their convention whining about Joe Biden's "chains" comment...

L-O-L

470 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 8:54:07am

re: #456 NJDhockeyfan

If it's required then yes, if not then it's up to him.

Anything within the law is always up to the candidate, but whether to vote for him is up to the voters.

471 Lidane  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:00:44am

re: #466 blueraven

So when is he going to call out Herman Cain and Allen West who both repeatedly tell African Americans that the Democratic party has enslaved them?

Cry me a freaking river.

I've been seeing RWNJs calling for Biden to resign over what he said.

Resign? WTF? It's an election year, for fuck's sake. If you think he crossed the line so badly, vote him out in November. Simple as that.

472 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:01:46am

Just for giggles

Youtube Video
473 makeitstop  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:03:13am

re: #471 Lidane

I've been seeing RWNJs calling for Biden to resign over what he said.

Resign? WTF? It's an election year, for fuck's sake. If you think he crossed the line so badly, vote him out in November. Simple as that.

But repeating over and over that Obama 'stole' $716 bil from SS is fine and dandy.

These people suck. Every one of them suck.

474 blueraven  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:07:16am

re: #473 makeitstop

But repeating over and over that Obama 'stole' $716 bil from SS is fine and dandy.

These people suck. Every one of them suck.

And to that point. Does anyone honestly believe that if R&R get elected they will not push the Ryan budget, (which includes the 716B), privatize medicare, and probably try to privatize SS as well?

475 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:08:20am

DKos:

President Obama's former campaign chair, former Democratic Congressman from Alabama Artur Davis has called VP Biden's remark an example of 'racial viciousness'. He says he has spoken with African Americans who say VP Joe Biden's remarks about being 'put back in chains' by unregulated banks is offensive.

...I don't know exactly what racial 'viciousness' is supposed to mean. It seems to me enslaving people is a form of viciousness, not reminding people that it once happened. Is he saying slavery is off limits as a topic of discussion because it is an unpleasant reminder, or merely that is a pandering applause line. Because (even as Wolf Blitzer points out), it doesn't stay in the 'quiet room', there are TV cameras everywhere and it went viral immediately.

And just like clockwork the left shows their racism...

Just a few comments by the Koskids...

I am older than Artur Davis and from the south (13+ / 0-)
like he is. And Artur reminds me of something in the old south. Uncle Toms. Man, this guy sold his soul. And what black people did he talk to, that large number of them who didn't vote for him in the last election? Badbye Artur.

by OrganizedCrime on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 07:07:52 PM PDT

Uncle Tom - yep, right on the money! (6+ / 0-)
People like him, like Clarence Thomas, like Mr. 999, Michael Steele - they turn my stomach.

"When someone shows you who they are ... believe them the first time." ~ Maya Angelou

by Orlaine on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 07:27:35 PM PDT


Nope. A Davis is what my Late Mother would (2+ / 0-)
have called a "Handkerchief-Head". Uncle Tom was just slow finding his spine. A Handkerchief-Head is, well, think Uncle Ruckus.

by oldmilitant on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 08:59:18 PM PDT

476 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:09:39am

re: #475 NJDhockeyfan

Of course it's different because they're lefties!
/

477 Gus  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:10:18am

Oh. It's one of THOSE mornings.

478 Gus  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:10:44am

Here's a good quicky.

479 Kronocide  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:10:55am

re: #475 NJDhockeyfan

And just like clockwork the left shows their racism...

Just a few comments by the Koskids...

And just like clockwork you show your Balance Fairy Agenda. You're our own little token Jim Hoft.

480 makeitstop  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:11:23am

re: #477 Gus

Oh. It's one of THOSE mornings.

Yeah. Can't wait to see where we are by dinner time...

481 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:11:49am

re: #476 Killgore Trout

Of course it's different because they're lefties!
/

I expect massive downdings for that. The question is will it be for the racist comments at DKos or for me exposing them?

482 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:12:16am

re: #479 Kronocide

And just like clockwork you show your Balance Fairy Agenda. You're our own little token Jim Hoft.

How so?

483 dragonath  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:12:46am

Hey look, we've got an Assange fan and Mugabe apologist on this thread:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

484 makeitstop  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:12:52am

re: #481 NJDhockeyfan

I expect massive downdings for that. The question is will it be for the racist comments at DKos or for me exposing them?

3 people = 'the left?'

Check.

485 Kronocide  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:14:13am

re: #481 NJDhockeyfan

I expect massive downdings for that. The question is will it be for the racist comments at DKos or for me exposing them?

False choice.

Are you making an equivalence between left wing racism and right wing racism?

486 AK-47%  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:14:34am

re: #466 blueraven

So when is he going to call out Herman Cain and Allen West who both repeatedly tell African Americans that the Democratic party has enslaved them?

Cry me a freaking river.

Back on the plantation?

487 Kragar  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:14:38am

What Happens When Glenn Beck's 'The Blaze' Tries to Fact-Check David Barton?

Comedy ensues.

488 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:15:01am

Artur Davis was the first black Alabaman to run for statewide office and NOT get 50% of the black vote.

489 blueraven  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:16:28am

re: #476 Killgore Trout

Of course it's different because they're lefties!
/

No they are equally ignorant.
But Arthur Davis, is a hypocrite. He does not call out the overt slavery talk from Allen West, Herman Cain and others. He is a southern black Democrat who has decided changing his party affiliation will help him win in Alabama after losing in a bid for Governor.
Its a good bet that he is right. If you want to win in the deep south as a black man, you better be a Conservative and be willing to step up the rhetoric.

490 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:16:51am

re: #476 Killgore Trout

Why the slash? That's how you view the left, isn't it?

491 Gus  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:16:56am

Arthur Davis, who just like Joe Lieberman, is going to speak at the Republican convention in Tampa this month, can go fornicate himself.

492 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:19:48am

re: #485 Kronocide

False choice.

Are you making an equivalence between left wing racism and right wing racism?

Equivalence? Does it matter which side is racist? Racism has no political side, it's all flat out disgusting.

493 dragonath  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:21:10am

Arthur who?

Oh, I see, some dopey politician who would have lost his own primary. Aim high Republicans!

494 GunstarGreen  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:21:32am

re: #59 Lidane

That's what I was thinking.

I don't like Assange. I saw a documentary on WikiLeaks at SXSW and walked out of it convinced the guy is a complete sociopath, and that whatever good intentions he claims to have are canceled out by his ego and his total disregard for the real world consequences of his actions. Still, embassies are sovereign soil. Sending in troops to an embassy to get him would be a definite act of aggression against Ecuador.

While it is true that there are very bad real world consequences of the leaks that come out of there, I am left to wonder who is the greater villain: The government that undertakes actions that would result in those consequences if the truth ever came out about them, or the man that exposes that truth. Perhaps, just perhaps, those situations shouldn't even be created in the first place?

Assange can legitimately be viewed as a Bad Guy for exposing the giant mountain of lies and corruption that the modern world is built upon, but perhaps the better response is not to get caught up in nailing the Bad Guy, but in changing the world so that there aren't as many things to be exposed about it.

495 wrenchwench  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:22:26am

re: #492 NJDhockeyfan

Equivalence? Does it matter which side is racist? Racism has no political side, it's all flat out disgusting.

Racism has no political side, but one side has decidedly more racism. Yes, it matters. Yes, it's all flat out disgusting.

496 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:22:35am

HufPo:

HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
Stephen Stafford
Be the answer to somebody's prayer!
3305 Fans

Artur Davis, you are hereby de-Blacked, never to mention it again. While still not white, you will receive an official certificate of lack of melanin based consciousness and cultural awareness.

In your official kit you will find a six month supply of oversized handkerchiefs to provide suitable headcoverings for you as you Tom about.

Outrage!
//

497 Varek Raith  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:22:46am

re: #492 NJDhockeyfan

Equivalence? Does it matter which side is racist? Racism has no political side, it's all flat out disgusting.

It's just that your party uses it far, far more often then the other.
See; Southern Strategy.

498 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:23:29am

re: #495 wrenchwench

Racism has no political side, but one side has decidedly more racism. Yes, it matters. Yes, it's all flat out disgusting.

I'm sorry, I must have missed the scoreboard on racism.

499 Targetpractice  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:24:02am

re: #496 NJDhockeyfan

HufPo:

Outrage!
//

So, is this the time of day when we get the "But they do it too!!!" bit?

500 wrenchwench  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:25:49am

re: #498 NJDhockeyfan

I'm sorry, I must have missed the scoreboard on racism.

Check the Pages tag for "Arizona". For a start.

501 sattv4u2  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:26:32am

re: #499 Targetpractice

So, is this the time of day when we get the "But they do it too!!!" bit?

No

It's the time of day when we get the "yeah, we do it too, but they do it WAY worse!!!" bit!

502 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:26:49am

re: #494 GunstarGreen

The issue I have with Assange is the harm done to good works that must also remain secret. He has this naive assumption that if there were no secrets the world would be wonderful. WRONG. If the west had no military or strategic goals the world would be far better off. Wrong again.

His biggest flaw however is that smug certainty the he knows better than all the rest of us in these matters. Has no fear of consequences for others from his actions.

503 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:27:02am

re: #484 makeitstop

3 people = 'the left?'

Check.

Want more? Here's another one.

He might remember something about sharecropping (1+ / 0-)
where people worked in the servitude of crushing debt, even though "technically" they were free. It has a few too many similarities to where we find ourselves today. I also wonder if the term "house negro" means anything to him.

"There must be something beyond slaughter and barbarism to support the existence of mankind and we must all help search for it."

by camlbacker on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 08:46:01 PM PDT

Progressive!

504 Varek Raith  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:27:06am

re: #501 sattv4u2

No

It's the time of day when we get the "yeah, we do it too, but they do it WAY worse!!!" bit!

Southern Strategy.

505 Gus  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:27:33am

Trolling.

506 makeitstop  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:27:49am

re: #498 NJDhockeyfan

I'm sorry, I must have missed the scoreboard on racism.

Charles posted comments from a RW site yesterday that had over a thousand racist comments.

You found 3 on Kos and 1 on HuffPo.

3 = 1000. Check.

507 Varek Raith  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:28:19am

re: #503 NJDhockeyfan

Want more? Here's another one.

Progressive!

Rush Limbaugh.
Conservative!

Glenn Beck.
Conservative!

I can play too!

508 Kronocide  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:29:01am

re: #492 NJDhockeyfan

Equivalence? Does it matter which side is racist? Racism has no political side, it's all flat out disgusting.

I can't tell if you're being coy or really don't understand. That there are racists and racism, of any political stripe, is not in question. It's not worth even noting because this is not in question.

But political parties or belief systems may incorporate some elements of racism in their belief structure. That is in question.

You don't point out that there are a few racists in a DKos thread: you point out that there are racists in a DKos thread. Objectively speaking, by order of numbers or magnitude, there is not a comparison between right and left (as history on this forum has shown).

So I ask again, are you making a comparison, or some kind of comparison, between left wing and right wing racism?

Or were you just pointing out the few racists on a DKos thread, not respective of any other narrative or consideration?

509 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:29:02am

re: #503 NJDhockeyfan

Want more? Here's another one.

Progressive!

Cherry picking!
/

510 makeitstop  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:29:02am

re: #503 NJDhockeyfan

Want more? Here's another one.

Progressive!

Ohh, four! Now balance has been achieved.
//

511 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:29:20am

re: #506 makeitstop

Charles posted comments from a RW site yesterday that had over a thousand racist comments.

You found 3 on Kos and 1 on HuffPo.

3 = 1000. Check.

They aren't hard to find on liberal blogs. I just tend stay away from them. Too much racism and anti-Semitism.

512 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:29:22am

ah somebody already beat me to that one, you guys are quick

513 Targetpractice  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:29:25am

re: #501 sattv4u2

No

It's the time of day when we get the "yeah, we do it too, but they do it WAY worse!!!" bit!

I'm not looking for a pissing contest over who's worse, I disagree with racism in all forms.

But I also don't go looking to find racism, which seems to be the point of the "outrage" over Biden's comment.

514 Lidane  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:29:53am

re: #494 GunstarGreen

Assange can legitimately be viewed as a Bad Guy for exposing the giant mountain of lies and corruption that the modern world is built upon, but perhaps the better response is not to get caught up in nailing the Bad Guy, but in changing the world so that there aren't as many things to be exposed about it.

Sure, but let's be real here -- governments have secrets. They're always going to have secrets, and more often than not, they're not going to be pretty. That's part of having a system of government in place and plans and contingencies against other countries so that you keep your own system afloat. It's been that way for centuries.

Whatever Assange thinks of his motives, we have to be realistic and understand that there are people and governments out there who would take advantage of the information he's releasing to the ether and to our detriment.

Yeah, I'd like to see a more transparent system and I don't like some of the things we do. Well, things that I know about anyway. But what's the other option? Exposing all of our most valuable secrets to the entire world? That's not an option. A more humane system? Sure. The system that Assange seems to want where there are no secrets at all? That's unrealistic and naive. And dangerous.

515 GunstarGreen  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:31:04am

re: #502 Daniel Ballard

The issue I have with Assange is the harm done to good works that must also remain secret. He has this naive assumption that if there were no secrets the world would be wonderful. WRONG. If the west had no military or strategic goals the world would be far better off. Wrong again.

His biggest flaw however is that smug certainty the he knows better than all the rest of us in these matters. Has no fear of consequences for others from his actions.

I can agree with this. His problem, and the large part of what makes him a Bad Guy, is that he doesn't discriminate. He dumps everything, the good and the bad. There is benefit to exposing coverups and dirty deals, but he muddies the waters by adding in the detriment of compromising legitimate operations.

516 Varek Raith  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:31:13am

re: #509 Killgore Trout

Cherry picking!
/

Victimization!
Self Pity!
Whoa is the GOP!
AGW is a hoax!
AGENDA 21!
Kenya!

517 makeitstop  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:31:25am

re: #511 NJDhockeyfan

I just tend stay away from them.

Until you want to smear 'the left,' yeah?

518 Targetpractice  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:31:36am

re: #515 GunstarGreen

I can agree with this. His problem, and the large part of what makes him a Bad Guy, is that he doesn't discriminate. He dumps everything, the good and the bad. There is benefit to exposing coverups and dirty deals, but he muddies the waters by adding in the detriment of compromising legitimate operations.

It's quicker and easier to explain Assange: He's an attention whore with a hero complex.

519 Kronocide  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:31:40am

re: #498 NJDhockeyfan

I'm sorry, I must have missed the scoreboard on racism.

You missed the scoreboard on racism on purpose because you're intellectually dishonest. You don't want to keep score, that would be bad. Here we have faux anti-racism as a cover for false balance leftist antagonism.

520 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:31:50am

It seems I hit a nerve. I noticed there is a bit of outrage thrown at me for posting left-wing racism but not much denouncing of the racist comments themselves. Are they getting a pass?

521 Targetpractice  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:32:25am

re: #517 makeitstop

Until you want to smear 'the left,' yeah?

Pretty much. Comments start about how the Right has no room to accuse someone of racism, so it's time to start trawling through Kos and HuffPo for examples of racism so as to "balance" the scale.

522 makeitstop  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:32:40am

Oh, God. Gus was right.

523 Varek Raith  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:32:56am

re: #520 NJDhockeyfan

It seems I hit a nerve. I noticed there is a bit of outrage thrown at me for posting left-wing racism but not much denouncing of the racist comments themselves. Are they getting a pass?

Fuck those commentors and the racist shit they rode in on.

524 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:32:59am

re: #517 makeitstop

Until you want to smear 'the left,' yeah?

The left does a fine job smearing themselves.

525 Gus  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:33:21am

re: #522 makeitstop

Oh, God. Gus was right.

I'm always right! //

What was I right about? The morning wingnut wave?

526 makeitstop  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:33:39am

re: #524 NJDhockeyfan

The left does a fine job smearing themselves.

All four of 'em.

527 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:33:49am

re: #523 Varek Raith

Fuck those commentors and the racist shit they rode in on.

That's more like it.

Upding!

528 Kronocide  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:33:56am

Black man using the term 'house negro' is the exact same as a white man using the term 'house negro.'

Noted.

529 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:34:41am

re: #528 Kronocide

Black man using the term 'house negro' is the exact same as a white man using the term 'house negro.'

Noted.

Huh?

530 makeitstop  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:34:45am

re: #525 Gus

I'm always right! //

What was I right about? The morning wingnut wave?

About it being one of those days.

531 Targetpractice  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:34:49am

re: #520 NJDhockeyfan

It seems I hit a nerve. I noticed there is a bit of outrage thrown at me for posting left-wing racism but not much denouncing of the racist comments themselves. Are they getting a pass?

If you'd wanted attention, you could have just said so.

532 blueraven  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:35:09am

re: #496 NJDhockeyfan

HufPo:

Outrage!
//

You like to pick out a few comments on a blog, but what say you about this?

Allen West:

“He [Obama] does not want you to have the self-esteem of getting up and earning, and having that title of American. He’d rather you be his slave and be economically dependent upon him.”

"Since June of 2009 or so, we have seen 2.4 million private sector jobs created, but we've had 3.1 million people going on Social Security disability," said West, R-Palm Beach Gardens. "So once again, we are creating the sense of economic dependence, which, to me, is a form of modern 21st-century slavery."


And back in February, West asserted that "the Democratic appetite for ever-increasing re-distributionary handouts is in fact the most insidious form of slavery remaining in the world today."

This from an actual US representative, not some anonymous blogger.

533 Varek Raith  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:35:23am

re: #531 Targetpractice

If you'd wanted attention, you could have just said so.

Firefly is overrated.

534 Targetpractice  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:36:07am

re: #533 Varek Raith

Firefly is overrated.

Burn the heretic!

//

535 GunstarGreen  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:36:13am

re: #533 Varek Raith

Firefly is overrated.

Oh it's on, now.

536 Varek Raith  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:36:46am

So easy to rile up us nerds.

537 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:36:49am

re: #532 blueraven

You like to pick out a few comments on a blog, but what say you about this?

Allen West:

This from an actual US representative, not some anonymous blogger.

Not good. I hope he was blasted for that one.

538 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:37:08am

re: #511 NJDhockeyfan
re: #506 makeitstop

I don't know why you guys go for the comments anywhere but here. It's just a sewer with a power sprayer out there. All we can prove is assholes of all kinds comment. Even if we could tally all the comments of some particular offensive nature, that's hardly a scientific measure. What we most often prove is a lack of moderation in commenters and on the blogs.

539 blueraven  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:38:17am

re: #537 NJDhockeyfan

Not good. I hope he was blasted for that one.

That is my point...Arthur Davis never blasted him.
Yet he blasts Biden?

540 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:39:29am

re: #520 NJDhockeyfan

No. No MBF for you either though. The right was worse & remains worse.

Sorry to disappoint you.

541 Varek Raith  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:40:41am

I don't see why you all care so much.
12-21-12.

542 Kronocide  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:41:28am

re: #520 NJDhockeyfan

It seems I hit a nerve. I noticed there is a bit of outrage thrown at me for posting left-wing racism but not much denouncing of the racist comments themselves. Are they getting a pass?

You have hit a nerve. It's the Intellectual Dishonesty Nerve. You just implied that you're getting crap for posting left wing racism and yet nobody will denounce this left wing racism. You're earning your Dim Hoft Stripes with a Double Down Star today.

It's an oldy but goody, the False Balance Narrative. Posting racism is nothing new, but you're ignoring any order of scale and magnitude. Considering scale and magnitude would cause one to say the Right, as a whole, has a huge problem with racism, since the left, as a whole, has little problem with racism.

You take a token few dopes on DKos as representative of The Left, not because it's objective or practical, but because you want to.

543 abolitionist  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:42:03am

re: #525 Gus

I'm always right! //

What was I right about? The morning wingnut wave?

*Waves to Gus*

544 Artist  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:42:25am
Youtube Video
545 Varek Raith  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:42:46am

re: #544 Artist

[Embedded content]

HEY LISTEN!

546 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:42:52am

re: #539 blueraven

That is my point...Arthur Davis never blasted him.
Yet he blasts Biden?

He's not the only one. Doug Wilder is not happy either.

Former Virginia Gov. Douglas Wilder had harsh words for Vice President Joe Biden a day after Biden told a rally in Virginia — which included a significant number of African-Americans in the audience — that Republicans and Wall Street are going to put “y’all back in chains.”

“Slavery is nothing to joke about,” Wilder said Wednesday on Fox News’s “Your World with Neil Cavuto.” “And the history of this nation’s involvement with slavery is nothing to pass off in a joke.”

547 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:43:04am

re: #533 Varek Raith

Firefly is overrated.

The TV show? Massively. The movie was better but I still don't get into "Josie Wales in SPACE!!!!" especially when the heroes are confederate equivalents.

Oh, that was rhetorical? Oops.

548 Varek Raith  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:43:32am

re: #547 William Barnett-Lewis

The TV show? Massively. The movie was better but I still don't get into "Josie Wales in SPACE!!!!" especially when the heroes are confederate equivalents.

Oh, that was rhetorical? Oops.

DUCK AND COVER!

549 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:44:26am

re: #541 Varek Raith

I don't see why you all care so much.
12-21-12.

My mom is counting down the days. I hope she doesn't do something stupid like giving everything away and maxing out all her credit cards.

550 blueraven  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:45:41am

re: #539 blueraven

That is my point...Arthur Davis never blasted him.
Yet he blasts Biden?

In fact I dont know of any Republicans who called West out on that, or his remark that there were 80 or so "communist" currently serving in Congress.

Only a few have called out Michelle Bachmann for her Muslim Bashing.

These are deliberate statements and McCarthyite witch hunts.
But yes, lets focus on an in-artful line taken out of context from Joe Biden.

551 Targetpractice  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:47:26am

re: #546 NJDhockeyfan

He's not the only one. Doug Wilder is not happy either.

I'd ask Mr. Wilder to explain this to those on the Right who get angry when called on their racism and declare that America needs to get over slavery, because nobody's been a slave for ages.

552 abolitionist  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:47:37am

re: #536 Varek Raith

So easy to rile up us nerds.

At 35 I found out I was a nerd. Seriously, I'd not heard the term before then, or simply ignored it. Rarely did I get riled up. Maybe I'm just atypical.

554 Targetpractice  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:48:42am

re: #552 abolitionist

At 35 I found out I was a nerd. Seriously, I'd not heard the term before then, or simply ignored it. Rarely did I get riled up. Maybe I'm just atypical.

I need to find that article from ages ago that explained the difference between "nerds" and "geeks."

555 Lidane  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:49:34am

Phone interview in 10 minutes, assuming the guy calls on time.

Oy. This is going to be fun.

556 makeitstop  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:50:22am

re: #555 Lidane

Phone interview in 10 minutes, assuming the guy calls on time.

Oy. This is going to be fun.

Good luck! You'll rock the interview, I'm sure.

557 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:51:25am

re: #553 Gus

Oy.

Destro is quickly becoming the official LGF troll.

558 blueraven  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:52:39am

re: #546 NJDhockeyfan

He's not the only one. Doug Wilder is not happy either.

And that is fine. Democrats can disagree. Here is the difference though; Doug Wilder calls out Republicans too, and he is not doing it for political reasons...cant say the same for Davis

559 Targetpractice  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:52:55am

Lord, grant me the strength of will to avoid punting my cat like a football.

560 Gus  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:53:47am

re: #557 NJDhockeyfan

Destro is quickly becoming the official LGF troll.

Seriously. A man's got to know his limitations. Two of them being Julian Assange and Bradley Manning fanboys.

561 Kragar  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:53:51am

re: #558 blueraven

And that is fine. Democrats can disagree. Here is the difference though; Doug Wilder calls out Republicans too, and he is not doing it for political reasons...cant say the same for Davis

My Dad got pissed at our cat once and tried that.

It crapped all over his foot.

He was wearing flipflops at the time.

562 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:54:37am

re: #487 Kragar

What Happens When Glenn Beck's 'The Blaze' Tries to Fact-Check David Barton?

Comedy ensues.

The alternate-world right really loves Barton. My impulse is to think he is too obvious a quack to be much of a threat outside his culturally stunted home demographic. History tells me otherwise though. We forget today that a lot of people thought Joe McCarthy was a complete buffoon when he started his rabid campaign of innuendo and slander. He was just a drunk grandstanding for a few ignorant and backward supporters from his home state. By the time they realized the true extent of the danger, most of the damage had been done.

Today's right embraces Barton for the same reason their predecessors embraced McCarthy: His absurdities keep the opposition off balance. He forces them to argue on the fantasy turf of his claims rather than in the real world of economics and tax policy etc.. For example, Harry Truman was forced to defend himself against accusations of communist sympathy, even though Truman had waged war against communists in Korea. In fact, most real communists thought he was a war criminal and they weren't shy about saying so.
Similarly, Barton and his ilk force the opposition onto the defensive over the "gay agenda," the alleged "war on faith," and some long-running conspiracy to confiscate guns. President Obama, who has attended church almost every Sunday for decades, is derided as an atheist and a Muslim agent. The great liberal gun grab has been just around the corner for 50 years. Righties allege a vast gay conspiracy to somehow convert young people to a life of sin and debauchery. These are front burner issues for the right. With the help of a ruthless media machine, they frame the debate and keep it outside the real world.

When the scientific community has to defend itself against charges of conspiracy and subversion, as it often does these days, its findings become less of a threat to those who find them inconvenient.

Barton is a clown, but a very dangerous and influential one. The right likes it that way and they will run interference for him at every opportunity.

563 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:54:37am

re: #560 Gus

Seriously. A man's got to know his limitations. Two of them being Julian Assange and Bradley Manning fanboys.

This is classic...


re: #16 Gus

What the heck is this? Prisonplanet? Give me a fucking break.

LOL!

564 abolitionist  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:54:44am

re: #559 Targetpractice

Mine have learned the hard way not to try to follow me a step or less ahead.

565 Targetpractice  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:54:45am

re: #561 Kragar

My Dad got pissed at our cat once and tried that.

It crapped all over his foot.

He was wearing flipflops at the time.

Think you quoted the wrong post, Kragar.

566 Kronocide  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:55:50am

Anybody who uses the term Uncle Tom = Racist.

Duly noted.

567 Kragar  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:56:21am

re: #565 Targetpractice

Think you quoted the wrong post, Kragar.

SILENCE!

568 makeitstop  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:56:36am

re: #565 Targetpractice

Think you quoted the wrong post, Kragar.

It does open up a whole new vista of comic possibilities, though.

569 Targetpractice  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:58:05am

re: #564 abolitionist

Mine have learned the hard way not to try to follow me a step or less ahead.

This one likes to weave between my feet as I'm moving about. I'm absolutely convinced he means to kill me.

570 abolitionist  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:59:00am

re: #569 Targetpractice

You may be right!

571 Lidane  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 9:59:51am

re: #570 abolitionist

You may be right!

I may be crazy. But it just may be a lunatic you're searching for...

572 Targetpractice  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 10:01:01am

re: #571 Lidane

I may be crazy. But it just may be a lunatic you're searching for...

Turn out the light. Don't try to save me.

573 abolitionist  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 10:01:14am

re: #571 Lidane

Moody Blues?

574 Gus  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 10:01:15am

OK. Since I am fair and balanced. You can find your morning moonbat wave here.

575 blueraven  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 10:01:45am

re: #573 abolitionist

Moody Blues?

Bill Joel I think

576 Lidane  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 10:01:47am

re: #573 abolitionist

Moody Blues?

Billy Joel.

577 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 10:02:44am

re: #502 Daniel Ballard

His biggest flaw however is that smug certainty the he knows better than all the rest of us in these matters. Has no fear of consequences for others from his actions.

This part.

578 Lidane  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 10:02:51am

re: #572 Targetpractice

Turn out the light. Don't try to save me.

You may be wrong for all I know, but you may be right.

579 Targetpractice  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 10:02:57am

re: #574 Gus

OK. Since I am fair and balanced. You can find your morning moonbat wave here.

Manning's a hero, man! He's gettin' tortured in prison! Free Manning!!

/(We need a moonbat tag)

580 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 10:04:00am

re: #511 NJDhockeyfan

They aren't hard to find on liberal blogs. I just tend stay away from them. Too much racism and anti-Semitism.

Hell, you can find racism and anti-Semitism on Yahoo comments. In plentiful heaps.

I swear, news site shouldn't have comments at all. If you have something to say, write a letter to the editor.

581 makeitstop  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 10:04:40am

Oh, my.

Santorum: Obamacare Is Forcing Catholics Into Confession

WTF?

582 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 10:04:50am

re: #579 Targetpractice

Manning's a hero, man! He's gettin' tortured in prison! Free Manning!!

/(We need a moonbat tag)

What are the far lefties going to do if we can't hold off the tea party for them? If they think Obama is a criminal and oppressor, they can't even imagine what is coming over the hill.

583 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 10:05:11am

re: #513 Targetpractice

I'm not looking for a pissing contest over who's worse, I disagree with racism in all forms.

But I also don't go looking to find racism, which seems to be the point of the "outrage" over Biden's comment.

I think that if a Republican had said that in the same context, it would feel very different to people, on both sides of the argument.

584 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 10:05:33am

re: #582 Shiplord Kirel

What are the far lefties going to do if we can't hold off the tea party for them? If they think Obama is a criminal and oppressor, they can't even imagine what is coming over the hill.

Yup.

585 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 10:05:40am

re: #515 GunstarGreen

I can agree with this. His problem, and the large part of what makes him a Bad Guy, is that he doesn't discriminate. He dumps everything, the good and the bad. There is benefit to exposing coverups and dirty deals, but he muddies the waters by adding in the detriment of compromising legitimate operations.

Dumping a filing cabinet is not whistleblowing.

586 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 10:05:49am

re: #580 SanFranciscoZionist

Hell, you can find racism and anti-Semitism on Yahoo comments. In plentiful heaps.

I swear, news site shouldn't have comments at all. If you have something to say, write a letter to the editor.

I always wondered why some news sites let the hate comments stay posted. Do they not monitor their websites?

587 Targetpractice  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 10:06:08am

re: #581 makeitstop

Oh, my.

Santorum: Obamacare Is Forcing Catholics Into Confession

WTF?

"Forgive me Father, for I have sinned. Last week, I was forced to abide by the beliefs of my employees."

588 blueraven  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 10:06:26am

re: #581 makeitstop

Oh, my.

Santorum: Obamacare Is Forcing Catholics Into Confession

WTF?

I heard it is good for the soul.

589 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 10:06:51am

re: #547 William Barnett-Lewis

The TV show? Massively. The movie was better but I still don't get into "Josie Wales in SPACE!!!!" especially when the heroes are confederate equivalents.

Oh, that was rhetorical? Oops.

I love it, but yes, it's totally "Josie Wales in SPACE!!!!"

590 Targetpractice  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 10:07:31am

re: #586 NJDhockeyfan

I always wondered why some news sites let the hate comments stay posted. Do they not monitor their websites?

There are those that do, but even with an army of mods, there's only so fast you can handle comments. And if you're blacklisting comments within seconds of their being posted, eventually people are going to leave to avoid "censorship."

591 makeitstop  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 10:08:38am

re: #588 blueraven

I heard it is good for the soul.

That's what I always thought.

Now it's bad, though!
//

592 Mattand  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 10:09:33am

re: #542 Kronocide

You have hit a nerve. It's the Intellectual Dishonesty Nerve. You just implied that you're getting crap for posting left wing racism and yet nobody will denounce this left wing racism. You're earning your Dim Hoft Stripes with a Double Down Star today.

It's an oldy but goody, the False Balance Narrative. Posting racism is nothing new, but you're ignoring any order of scale and magnitude. Considering scale and magnitude would cause one to say the Right, as a whole, has a huge problem with racism, since the left, as a whole, has little problem with racism.

You take a token few dopes on DKos as representative of The Left, not because it's objective or practical, but because you want to.

Well written. I think many conservatives know deep down how much racism is woven into their movement and the GOP, but just won't confront it. Instead of being honest, they immediately go Magical Balance Fairy.

Are their left wing racists? Sure. Has it seeped into their collective gestalt like the right wing? Not by a light year. The fact that the birther movement is still kicking is proof that the right is at best comfortable with racism.

The left and the Democrats have the share of ignorant racists, but they're not driving the party narrative like they are on the right.

593 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 10:09:51am

re: #581 makeitstop

Oh, my.

Santorum: Obamacare Is Forcing Catholics Into Confession

WTF?

The sacrament of reconciliation is a good thing. If Obamacare is encouraging more Catholics to partake, that should make Santorum happy.

594 Gus  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 10:11:54am

Glenn Greenwald... still at it.

The Obama administration’s unprecedented obsession with persecuting whistleblowers and preventing transparency – what even generally supportive, liberal magazines call “Obama’s war on whistleblowers” – makes those concerns all the more valid.

595 Kronocide  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 10:14:00am

re: #592 Mattand

The left and the Democrats have the share of ignorant racists, but they're not driving the party narrative like they are on the right.

Way to say more with less words. Hard to MBF this reality.

596 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 10:16:02am

re: #581 makeitstop

Oh, my.

Santorum: Obamacare Is Forcing Catholics Into Confession

WTF?

Santorum's statement is probably not theologically accurate. If accurate, it's insane.

597 Mattand  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 10:16:14am

re: #593 SanFranciscoZionist

The sacrament of reconciliation is a good thing. If Obamacare is encouraging more Catholics to partake, that should make Santorum happy.

The convention is going to be such a clown show, I'm surprised they haven't gotten Ringling Brothers to co-sponsor.

What's scary is that given the 800 forms of crazy that makes up the GOP, they'll probably pull a Borg and unite behind Romney and Paul. The hatred of Obama (coughBLACKGUYINWHITEHOUSEcough) will see to that.

598 Targetpractice  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 10:17:26am

re: #597 Mattand

The convention is going to be such a clown show, I'm surprised they haven't gotten Ringling Brothers to co-sponsor.

What's scary is that given the 800 forms of crazy that makes up the GOP, they'll probably pull a Borg and unite behind Romney and Paul. The hatred of Obama (coughBLACKGUYINWHITEHOUSEcough) will see to that.

I'm with Lidane in being convinced that the platform is gonna be an absolute trainwreck, one that Romney will have to simultaneously embrace and distance himself from. Should be hilarious to watch.

599 Interesting Times  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 10:18:14am

re: #595 Kronocide

Way to say more with less words. Hard to MBF this reality.

600 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 10:18:24am

re: #598 Targetpractice

I'm with Lidane in being convinced that the platform is gonna be an absolute trainwreck, one that Romney will have to simultaneously embrace and distance himself from. Should be hilarious to watch.

Unfortunately, the public awareness of any platform is measured in hours.

601 Mattand  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 10:19:05am

re: #598 Targetpractice

I'm with Lidane in being convinced that the platform is gonna be an absolute trainwreck, one that Romney will have to simultaneously embrace and distance himself from. Should be hilarious to watch.

I think one of the keys to that is how much of a fuss Ron Paul kicks up. I think he could really do some damage if he wanted.

602 Interesting Times  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 10:19:58am
603 Targetpractice  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 10:20:23am

re: #600 Decatur Deb

Unfortunately, the public awareness of any platform is measured in hours.

In an ideal world, every American newspaper would devote front-page coverage to the lunacy. In reality, there will be some editorial comments on Page 1 about how it's "bold" and "serious," with the craziness buried at the back.

604 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 10:20:53am

USA, 2019

Militiaman: "Hey, you there, is that a Che t-shirt?"
Lefty: "None of your damn business, asshole!"
WHACK!!!
Lefty: "Arrrggghhh, okay, don't taze me, bro. Yeah, it's Che, my grandpa left it to me."
Militiaman: "Don't you know Che was an atheist and attacked Christians and corporations?"
Lefty: "So?"
Militiaman: "That is an attack on religion, you're oppressing Christians and businesses by showing his commie face in public!"
Lefty: "Hey, man, free speech, you know."
Militiaman: "Exactly, and it undermines our right of free speech and worship when you terrorize people with that image! You're under arrest, off to Jesus Camp with you."
Lefty: "Don't I get a trial?"
Militiaman: "You just had one. They're streamlining the system so I get to be judge and jury too."
Lefty: "But Jesus Camp is unconstitutional!"
Militiaman: "You dumb hippie, it's a voucher prison. And the Dems gave us the precedent with their FEMA camps so it's all their fault if you don't like it."

605 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 10:22:06am

re: #437 NJDhockeyfan

Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi have been demanding Romney release his tax returns yet neither of them will release theirs.

It goes both ways.

They are not running for prez

606 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 10:25:52am

You know, I think that as part of the campaign finance overhaul we so desperately need in this country, we should just make it automatic that the IRS releases the previous 10 years of returns when anyone files as a candidate for President with the FEC. It would be fair and balanced after all...

607 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 10:29:21am

re: #451 NJDhockeyfan

Neither is Tommy Thompson.

He's not running in my state so I don't have a say so, that is up to the residents of that state.

608 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 10:31:14am

FBI: FRC Shooter Had 15 Chick-Fil-A Sandwiches, Said ‘I Don’t Like Your Politics’

Federal authorities have just filed a complaint against Floyd Corkins, the man who allegedly shot a guard at the headquarters of the Family Research Council on Wednesday. An FBI affidavit states that Corkins allegedly said words to the effect of "I don't like your politics" when he encountered the guard.

The FBI said Corkins had 15 Chick-fil-A sandwiches, a Sig Sauer 9mm pistol, two additional magazines loaded with ammunition and an additional box of 50 rounds of ammunition when he came into the building.

His parents told the FBI that Corkins "has strong opinions with respect to those he believes do not treat homosexuals in a fair manner."

Weapons, ammo, and...chicken sandwiches?

609 Targetpractice  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 10:33:48am

re: #608 NJDhockeyfan

FBI: FRC Shooter Had 15 Chick-Fil-A Sandwiches, Said ‘I Don’t Like Your Politics’

Weapons, ammo, and...chicken sandwiches?

15 sandwiches at that. I'm trying to figure out how he squared his hate for the place with giving them money.

610 Lidane  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 10:34:53am

Phone interview done. Thank goodness.

I think I rocked it. The guy who interviewed me told me I did really well, so that's a good sign, too. I'm supposed to hear back from the HR person next week to let me know if I'm one of the finalists for the job, and a final decision should be made by the end of the month.

Here's hoping.

611 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 10:35:02am

re: #609 Targetpractice

15 sandwiches at that. I'm trying to figure out how he squared his hate for the place with giving them money.

I wonder what his plans were for those sandwiches if he had been able to get in and fire off all that ammo.

612 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 10:35:32am

re: #610 Lidane

Phone interview done. Thank goodness.

I think I rocked it. The guy who interviewed me told me I did really well, so that's a good sign, too. I'm supposed to hear back from the HR person next week to let me know if I'm one of the finalists for the job, and a final decision should be made by the end of the month.

Here's hoping.

Fingers crossed for ya. Good luck!

613 abolitionist  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 10:35:43am

re: #609 Targetpractice

15 sandwiches at that. I'm trying to figure out how he squared his hate for the place with giving them money.

I suspect he had fantasies involving a "last meal" for those he intended to harm.

614 blueraven  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 10:35:53am

re: #608 NJDhockeyfan

FBI: FRC Shooter Had 15 Chick-Fil-A Sandwiches, Said ‘I Don’t Like Your Politics’

Weapons, ammo, and...chicken sandwiches?

I wonder what in the hell he was going to do with 15 chicken sandwiches?
Sounds like a lunatic if you ask me.

I am so glad they got him before he was able to do more damage.
Hope the security guard recovers quickly and completely. He is a real hero!

615 Targetpractice  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 10:36:57am

re: #613 abolitionist

I suspect he had fantasies involving a "last meal" for those he intended to harm.

No telling at this point. I imagine it will all come out at trial.

616 simoom  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 10:38:41am

Some poor reporting @ Politico:

[Link: www.politico.com...]

Mitt Romney said Thursday that he has paid at least 13 percent of his income in taxes every year.

What Romney actually said:

[Link: www.buzzfeed.com...]

“I did go back and look at my taxes and over the past 10 years I never paid less than 13 percent. I think the most recent year is 13.6 or something like that. So I paid taxes every single year. Harry Reid’s charge is totally false. I’m sure waiting for Harry to put up who it was that told him what he says they told him. I don’t believe it for a minute, by the way. But every year I’ve paid at least 13 percent and if you add in addition the amount that goes to charity, why the number gets well above 20 percent.”

A couple of things worth noting. First, the reason he gets asked this question about having always paid over a certain amount is that he made this promise to ABC's David Muir last month:

[Link: abcnews.go.com...]

Muir: Can we clear this up by asking a simple yes or no question? Was there ever any year when you paid lower than 13.9%?

Romney: I haven't calculated that. I'm happy to go back and look but my view is I've paid all the taxes required by law.

In his statement today Romney doesn't actually address that question, as he conspicuously sets a cutoff of 10 years back. Perhaps this is because 10 years is a pretty typical Presidential tax return disclosure, so perhaps he's hoping to blur the issue enough that folks mistakenly give him credit for having released 10 years vs just 1. Or maybe it's because Harry Reid's "source's" claim involved a 10 year period and by using a 10 year window himself he hopes the media will treat that as a rebuttal (though obviously if Reid's source is real, he's supposed to be some Bain insider who worked with Romney, so any 10 year period they could have knowledge of would be more than 10 years ago).

Also, even though politico's write-up includes the word 'income', Romney never actually said that himself.

617 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 10:43:53am

re: #616 simoom

"I've paid all the taxes required by law."

What does everyone want with him? If he didn't pay his taxes I'm sure IRS would have been knocking on his door and we would have heard of it.

618 jaunte  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 10:44:12am

re: #616 simoom

"Governor, when reporters have asked you about your income taxes, you haven't, on record, used the word "income taxes" in your responses. You respond by speaking about "paying your taxes", a more general term. Why is that?"

619 b_sharp  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 10:45:18am

re: #604 Shiplord Kirel

USA, 2019

Militiaman: "Hey, you there, is that a Che t-shirt?"
Lefty: "None of your damn business, asshole!"
WHACK!!!
Lefty: "Arrrggghhh, okay, don't taze me, bro. Yeah, it's Che, my grandpa left it to me."
Militiaman: "Don't you know Che was an atheist and attacked Christians and corporations?"
Lefty: "So?"
Militiaman: "That is an attack on religion, you're oppressing Christians and businesses by showing his commie face in public!"
Lefty: "Hey, man, free speech, you know."
Militiaman: "Exactly, and it undermines our right of free speech and worship when you terrorize people with that image! You're under arrest, off to Jesus Camp with you."
Lefty: "Don't I get a trial?"
Militiaman: "You just had one. They're streamlining the system so I get to be judge and jury too."
Lefty: "But Jesus Camp is unconstitutional!"
Militiaman: "You dumb hippie, it's a voucher prison. And the Dems gave us the precedent with their FEMA camps so it's all their fault if you don't like it."

Does MilitiaMan get to wear a cape?

620 Mattand  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 10:45:44am

re: #616 simoom

Some poor reporting @ Politico:

[Link: www.politico.com...]

What Romney actually said:

[Link: www.buzzfeed.com...]

A couple of things worth noting. First, the reason he gets asked this question about having always paid over a certain amount is that he made this promise to ABC's David Muir last month:

[Link: abcnews.go.com...]

In his statement today Romney doesn't actually address that question, as he conspicuously sets a cutoff of 10 years back. Perhaps this is because 10 years is a pretty typical Presidential tax return disclosure, so perhaps he's hoping to blur the issue enough that folks mistakenly give him credit for having released 10 years vs just 1. Or maybe it's because Harry Reid's "source's" claim involved a 10 year period and by using a 10 year window himself he hopes the media will treat that as a rebuttal (though obviously if Reid's source is real, he's supposed to be some Bain insider who worked with Romney, so any 10 year period they could have knowledge of would be more than 10 years ago).

Also, even though politico's write-up includes the word 'income', Romney never actually said that himself.

Bigger problem: the "just trust me" attitude. Here's a guy who won't reveal what his policies will be because he's afraid people will criticize/distort what he says. And he and his wife says we should just trust him on whatever he says.

Way to promote transparency in government. Jackass.

621 simoom  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 10:46:38am

re: #617 NJDhockeyfan

"I've paid all the taxes required by law."

What does everyone want with him?

For him to release 6-12 years which has been the standard for decades (only broken by John McCain who limited his disclosure to 2 years). So far Romney has released 1 partial return and an estimate for 2011.

622 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 10:46:51am

re: #619 b_sharp

Does MilitiaMan get to wear a cape?

Just a black shirt.

623 Targetpractice  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 10:47:25am

re: #617 NJDhockeyfan

"I've paid all the taxes required by law."

What does everyone want with him? If he didn't pay his taxes I'm sure IRS would have been knocking on his door and we would have heard of it.

Everyone wishes to see his tax returns because we wish to know what a man who buys into the argument that half the country pays no taxes and wishes to pass further tax cuts for the nation's rich has paid in the past and would pay under his own proposed policies.

624 AK-47%  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 10:49:05am

re: #581 makeitstop

Oh, my.

Santorum: Obamacare Is Forcing Catholics Into Confession

WTF?

He does not even understand frigging Catholic theology: it is not a sin unless it is done with full consent of the will, if you are "forced" by the government, then it is not a sin any more than killing is not a sin if you are compelled to do so in the military.

Get a faith, Rick.

625 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 10:49:59am

[Link: usnews.nbcnews.com...]

Ouch. Beware of spicy packages for the next few days.

626 AK-47%  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 10:50:41am

re: #609 Targetpractice

15 sandwiches at that. I'm trying to figure out how he squared his hate for the place with giving them money.

I would say that is all a pretty good basis for entering a plea of insanity...

627 Charles Johnson  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 10:53:19am

re: #475 NJDhockeyfan

Uh ... are you under the impression that simply using a word makes you a racist?

Because it doesn't.

I see this all the time with right-wingers -- they focus on the words and ignore the intent, in order to paint a false picture of equivalence. That lets them accuse a leftist of racism if he or she uses, for example, the word "negro" -- even if the intent of using the word is to point out someone else's racism.

Another example is the comment you pulled from Daily Kos, claiming it's "racist:"

He might remember something about sharecropping (1+ / 0-)
where people worked in the servitude of crushing debt, even though "technically" they were free. It has a few too many similarities to where we find ourselves today. I also wonder if the term "house negro" means anything to him.

It's incredibly obvious that this person is denouncing racism, and at the same time denouncing black people who let themselves be used by racists to smear their own people -- a tactic that is extremely common on the right.

But instead of seeing that point, you focus solely on the word, in order to pretend it's equivalent to the blatant, ugly racism you see everywhere on right wing blogs and media sites.

It's not equivalent, and this tactic of pretending it's the words that matter and not the intent is intellectually dishonest.

628 Targetpractice  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 10:53:21am

We know that Romney carried over losses in '08 into '10, it's there in what we have of his '10 returns. It's theoretically plausible that he used those same losses, as many did in the same year, to zero out his income taxes. How would it look for a man accusing half the country of paying no income taxes, of getting fat on the hard work of others, if his returns showed that he made millions on investments but paid not a single cent in income taxes?

629 blueraven  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 10:56:37am

re: #617 NJDhockeyfan

"I've paid all the taxes required by law."

What does everyone want with him? If he didn't pay his taxes I'm sure IRS would have been knocking on his door and we would have heard of it.

You can get your taxes down to zero legally by taking advantage of certain loopholes (skewed to the wealthy) and pricey accountants. Many do.
Why it is important is that the man will be setting tax policy if elected. We should know what his tax rate is.

630 Gus  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 10:57:26am

BBL

631 jaunte  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 10:58:02am

re: #628 Targetpractice

How would it look for a man accusing half the country of paying no income taxes, of getting fat on the hard work of others, if his returns showed that he made millions on investments but paid not a single cent in income taxes?

The undisputed fact that he has multiple offshore accounts for the purpose of reducing (evading) his U.S. tax bill, should disqualify him from any national tax policy discussion.

632 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 10:59:02am

re: #629 blueraven

You can get your taxes down to zero legally by taking advantage of certain loopholes (skewed to the wealthy) and pricey accountants. Many do.
Why it is important is that the man will be setting tax policy. We should know what his tax rate is.

Don't you think Obama had taken advantage of loopholes as well? I wish I had a few loophole to take advantage of. I could use the money.

633 b_sharp  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 10:59:50am

re: #610 Lidane

Phone interview done. Thank goodness.

I think I rocked it. The guy who interviewed me told me I did really well, so that's a good sign, too. I'm supposed to hear back from the HR person next week to let me know if I'm one of the finalists for the job, and a final decision should be made by the end of the month.

Here's hoping.

Good luck.

634 Targetpractice  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 11:00:04am

re: #632 NJDhockeyfan

Don't you think Obama had taken advantage of loopholes as well? I wish I had a few loophole to take advantage of. I could use the money.

Obama's released 10 years of tax returns, Biden has released 12. You're free to look through them and point out the loopholes he's taken advantage of.

635 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 11:00:28am

Terror group fires rockets at Eilat

An Islamic terrorist group has claimed responsibility for firing rockets into Eilat on Wednesday evening.

Police resumed searching for remains of a Grad missile rocket at 6:30am this Thursday morning, after the Salafi Front claimed it had caused the two explosions in the resort.

No injuries or damages were reported after security forces suspected the rockets having been sent from the Sinai Peninsula.

636 allegro  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 11:00:52am

I know I'm late to the party but I want to go back to Biden's "chain" statements. I think they were totally correct and appropriate. Nothing racist about them. Here's why:

Wall Street and our healthcare system ARE enslaving to Americans. All of us. Thanks to the WS bubble caused mortgage melt-down, millions lost their homes or walked away from underwater mortgages and trashed their credit. This means they can't get a job, rent an apt, or even get car insurance, fer chrissakes. Others are in homes that aren't worth what they owe on them so they cannot sell or leave, awaiting permission from their banker overlords to allow short-sales. All of these severely limit choices and opportunities.

How many people are stuck in abusive jobs they despise because they are locked in for their health insurance? They cannot pursue other opportunities or make choices. They are in a very real sense enslaved by this system that is driven by insurance company profits and greed. Obamacare will help (and already is helping some) but as long as we are stuck in employer-provided insurance, this is going to be a problem.

These are only two points but I think they illustrate the fact of modern day enslavement that has no color. I think Biden was dead-on and his analogy was entirely appropriate. Diverting the conversation to one of racism is just that a diversion from his point. It's also a desperate seeking of the MBF to help them feel a bit better about their own racist hatred.

637 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 11:01:58am

Chris Rickert: Here's why Ryan's 'homecoming rally' wasn't in Janesville

Heh.

638 b_sharp  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 11:02:46am

re: #617 NJDhockeyfan

"I've paid all the taxes required by law."

What does everyone want with him? If he didn't pay his taxes I'm sure IRS would have been knocking on his door and we would have heard of it.

The question isn't the legality, but the morality.

Did he use every loophole he could find, which smacks of manipulating the tax system and is unethical for someone going for the POTUS, or did he use the tax system as it was intended?

639 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 11:03:06am

Back to the topic
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Corkins -- who was carrying 15 Chick-fil-A sandwiches in his backpack along with the pistol and extra ammunition -- "has strong opinions with respect to those he believes do not treat homosexuals in a fair manner," authorities said in the complaint, citing his parents.

640 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 11:03:34am

re: #634 Targetpractice

Obama's released 10 years of tax returns, Biden has released 12. You're free to look through them and point out the loopholes he's taken advantage of.

Frankly I don't care how much either one used loopholes to save money on their taxes. If it's legal, more power to them. You don't like it, call to your congressman and ask him to change it.

641 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 11:04:20am

re: #636 allegro

Don't even have to treat it metaphorically. A black male in America is more than twice as likely as a white male to end up in cuffs. And the TPGOP wants to make that easier.

[Link: www2.fbi.gov...]

642 Mattand  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 11:04:21am

re: #632 NJDhockeyfan

Don't you think Obama had taken advantage of loopholes as well? I wish I had a few loophole to take advantage of. I could use the money.

You honestly didn't know Obama had released his tax returns?

643 blueraven  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 11:05:27am

re: #632 NJDhockeyfan

Don't you think Obama had taken advantage of loopholes as well? I wish I had a few loophole to take advantage of. I could use the money.

Of course he does...we all do if we can. But Obama has released 12 years of taxes. We see his tax rate.
There are honest loopholes and questionable ones...like "Son of BOSS"
which Romney championed for tax avoidance as a Marriott International board member

644 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 11:05:37am

AFternoon all! slept 11 hours straight for the first time in weeks. It feels wonderful!!

you?

645 makeitstop  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 11:05:45am

re: #640 NJDhockeyfan

Frankly I don't care how much either one used loopholes to save money on their taxes. If it's legal, more power to them. You don't like it, call to your congressman and ask him to change it.

All well and good.

But the fact remains - Obama released his taxes, Romney hasn't.

What is he hiding? If he did nothing wrong, he has nothing to fear. Right?

646 b_sharp  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 11:05:52am

re: #632 NJDhockeyfan

Don't you think Obama had taken advantage of loopholes as well? I wish I had a few loophole to take advantage of. I could use the money.

I doubt that Obama has. I think he's far too self aware to take silly chances with his goal of becoming and remaining the president.

647 Targetpractice  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 11:06:42am

re: #640 NJDhockeyfan

Frankly I don't care how much either one used loopholes to save money on their taxes. If it's legal, more power to them. You don't like it, call to your congressman and ask him to change it.

I am, that's why I'm voting for Obama, who's running on tax reform that includes closing many of the loopholes that guys like Romney rely upon to keep their millions.

648 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 11:06:51am

re: #634 Targetpractice

Obama's released 10 years of tax returns, Biden has released 12. You're free to look through them and point out the loopholes he's taken advantage of.

regarding the tax returns disclosure.

It's a tit for tat thing. Romney doesn't think he has to play.

649 jaunte  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 11:07:19am

re: #645 makeitstop

All well and good.

But the fact remains - Obama released his taxes, Romney hasn't.

What is he hiding? If he did nothing wrong, he has nothing to fear. Right?

If he took the amnesty and paid a penalty for felony tax evasion, he'd still have paid all the taxes he legally owed, but I don't think he would be electable.

650 b_sharp  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 11:07:27am

re: #639 Daniel Ballard

Back to the topic
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Corkins -- who was carrying 15 Chick-fil-A sandwiches in his backpack along with the pistol and extra ammunition -- "has strong opinions with respect to those he believes do not treat homosexuals in a fair manner," authorities said in the complaint, citing his parents.

He had the munchies.

651 simoom  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 11:07:30am

re: #632 NJDhockeyfan

Don't you think Obama had taken advantage of loopholes as well? I wish I had a few loophole to take advantage of. I could use the money.

We know which deductions President Obama & the First Lady have made use of as he's released 12 years of tax returns. That basically covers their finances as they moved into the top 1 to 0.5% of income earners, mostly from the books he's authored, so you have an excellent window into what they've done with their finances.

652 AK-47%  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 11:07:34am

re: #629 blueraven

You can get your taxes down to zero legally by taking advantage of certain loopholes (skewed to the wealthy) and pricey accountants. Many do.
Why it is important is that the man will be setting tax policy if elected. We should know what his tax rate is.

It is not a matter of criminal activities or intent, it is just a matter of whether we want a fellow like this as Chief Executive. I don't.

653 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 11:07:57am

re: #640 NJDhockeyfan

Frankly I don't care how much either one used loopholes to save money on their taxes. If it's legal, more power to them. You don't like it, call to your congressman and ask him to change it.

It's also not like either Obama or Mitt do their own tax preparation. Like many other Americans they give their stuff to a bean counter and sign the forms.

654 engineer cat  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 11:08:15am

the romneys keep on complaining that releasing mitt's tax returns will only give democrats more ammunition

that's enough of an admission that's something's embarrassing there for me

655 b_sharp  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 11:08:22am

re: #640 NJDhockeyfan

Frankly I don't care how much either one used loopholes to save money on their taxes. If it's legal, more power to them. You don't like it, call to your congressman and ask him to change it.

So, you embrace unethical behaviour.

656 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 11:08:55am

re: #642 Mattand

You honestly didn't know Obama had released his tax returns?

I'm sure he did. I don't have the time, energy, or interest to look over someone else's tax return, even the president's. On election day most people will be looking at the unemployment numbers and the economy when they go to vote. If they don't like what they see and don't like where they believe we are headed Romney will get that vote.

657 simoom  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 11:09:02am

re: #634 Targetpractice

Obama's released 10 years of tax returns, Biden has released 12. You're free to look through them and point out the loopholes he's taken advantage of.

There's actually 12 years publicly accessible for both of them:
[Link: www.barackobama.com...]

658 b_sharp  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 11:09:59am

re: #644 ggt

AFternoon all! slept 11 hours straight for the first time in weeks. It feels wonderful!!

you?

I have no idea if you feel wonderful.
My wife would complain if I checked.

659 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 11:10:17am

re: #647 Targetpractice

I am, that's why I'm voting for Obama, who's running on tax reform that includes closing many of the loopholes that guys like Romney rely upon to keep their millions.

He's had 3 1/2 years to do that. What's he been waiting for?

660 blueraven  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 11:10:47am

re: #653 Killgore Trout

It's also not like either Obama or Mitt do their own tax preparation. Like many other Americans they give their stuff to a bean counter and sign the forms.

Oh please. Plausible deniability from a CEO of a major investment firm?

661 kirkspencer  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 11:11:03am

re: #617 NJDhockeyfan

"I've paid all the taxes required by law."

What does everyone want with him? If he didn't pay his taxes I'm sure IRS would have been knocking on his door and we would have heard of it.

Because "legal" and "right" aren't always the same.

Because we his possible future employers are vetting him for a significant position, and we have considered tax returns a required portion of the review since his father ran for office. Heck, HE considers it necessary that his potential number two's records got reviewed.

Because if you want to see what a man truly believes, see where his money went.

662 AK-47%  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 11:11:26am

re: #659 NJDhockeyfan

He's had 3 1/2 years to do that. What's he been waiting for?

As Andy Griffith once said to his son, "Gee, Opie!"

663 Targetpractice  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 11:11:29am

re: #659 NJDhockeyfan

He's had 3 1/2 years to do that. What's he been waiting for?

For a Congress that isn't waiting out his term in the hopes that he loses reelection?

664 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 11:11:49am

re: #659 NJDhockeyfan

He's had 3 1/2 years to do that. What's he been waiting for?

A sudden onslaught of patriotic conscience among the TPGOPs in congress.

665 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 11:12:02am

re: #655 b_sharp

So, you embrace unethical behaviour.

How is following the law when doing your taxes 'unethical'?

666 AK-47%  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 11:12:43am

Remember, too that St. Grover of Norquist insists that closing tax loopholes comstitutes a "tax increase" and is to be fought tooth and nail.

667 makeitstop  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 11:12:50am

re: #659 NJDhockeyfan

He's had 3 1/2 years to do that. What's he been waiting for?

Waiting for the Tea Party Republicans to get off their asses and actually earn their keep?

668 AK-47%  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 11:13:27am

re: #665 NJDhockeyfan

How is following the law when doing your taxes 'unethical'?

Once again, it is not a matter of illegal, or unethical, it is a matter of whether he is suitable for the presidency.

669 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 11:14:19am

re: #653 Killgore Trout

It's also not like either Obama or Mitt do their own tax preparation. Like many other Americans they give their stuff to a bean counter and sign the forms.

It's not really about the tax prep. It's about your tax planning: how you structure your investments in advance to minimize your liability.

670 wrenchwench  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 11:14:32am

re: #627 Charles Johnson

It's not equivalent, and this tactic of pretending it's the words that matter and not the intent is intellectually dishonest.

Does 'intellectual dishonesty' presume some level of intellect?

671 blueraven  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 11:15:53am

re: #665 NJDhockeyfan

How is following the law when doing your taxes 'unethical'?

We don't know if he actually followed the law do we? Did he take the foreign bank amnesty? Did he use Son of BOSS?

We heard major outrage about GE, Exxon etc... not paying any federal income taxes, and rightly so. A presidential candidate should be held up to the same scrutiny.

672 allegro  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 11:15:54am

re: #640 NJDhockeyfan

Frankly I don't care how much either one used loopholes to save money on their taxes. If it's legal, more power to them. You don't like it, call to your congressman and ask him to change it.

Dude, that is the point of elections and why we are "interviewing" Romney to see if he is qualified for the job. His taxes are part of that, especially since taxes are such a large part of the discussion, including his, telling us he's going to "save us" with tax reform. That this tax reform of which he speaks is one that will benefit him and those like him in the upper atmosphere of privilege most of all IS the point. That he won't release his taxes tells us a whole lot and it does matter a whole lot.

And 13%? Seriously? Hell, I'm no where near any upper income bracket and I pay more than twice that rate. 15% off the top just for withholding and self employment tax that Romney doesn't pay.Then income tax on top of that. Our tax system is far from progressive.

673 Mocking Jay  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 11:16:06am

I ♥ listening to Republicans stick up for a politician they cannot stand.

674 Mattand  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 11:16:29am

re: #664 Decatur Deb

A sudden onslaught of patriotic conscience among the TPGOPs in congress.

After they've spent the last 2 years obstructing Obama at every turn at the expense of tanking the economy.

That's what cracks me up about the TP. Where the fuck where these people when Bush was spending and growing the size of government like mad?

675 Targetpractice  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 11:17:29am

re: #674 Mattand

After they've spent the last 2 years obstructing Obama at every turn at the expense of tanking the economy.

That's what cracks me up about the TP. Where the fuck where these people when Bush was spending and growing the size of government like mad?

Voting the party line. Now they're all suddenly "repenting" what they did and "born-again" as small government believers.

676 makeitstop  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 11:17:51am

re: #674 Mattand

That's what cracks me up about the TP. Where the fuck where these people when Bush was white and spending and growing the size of government like mad?

Therein lies your answer.

677 b_sharp  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 11:17:55am

re: #653 Killgore Trout

It's also not like either Obama or Mitt do their own tax preparation. Like many other Americans they give their stuff to a bean counter and sign the forms.

Do they hire and instruct the bean counter?

678 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 11:18:45am

re: #658 b_sharp

I have no idea if you feel wonderful.
My wife would complain if I checked.

I would be polarizing, for sure.

679 Mocking Jay  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 11:18:56am

re: #665 NJDhockeyfan

How is following the law when doing your taxes 'unethical'?

Lots of unethical shit is perfectly legal. Seriously. They're not the same.

680 simoom  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 11:19:19am

re: #665 NJDhockeyfan

How is following the law when doing your taxes 'unethical'?

I suppose it depends if you view any ethical or patriotic issues with offshore tax shelters. One of the reasons Romney's single year of disclosure gave his campaign so many headaches was that it provided breadcrumbs for finance journalists to follow to mysterious offshore vehicles that hadn't been previously disclosed, that imply Romney may be significantly wealthier than had been understood, and that paint an extremely murky overall picture of his finances.

681 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 11:19:52am

re: #642 Mattand

You honestly didn't know Obama had released his tax returns?

NJDF doesn't care. The narrative is more important than the facts. Just remember that if you choose to continue engaging.

682 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 11:20:38am

re: #671 blueraven

We don't know if he actually followed the law do we? Did he take the foreign bank amnesty? Did he use Son of BOSS?

We heard major outrage about GE, Exxon etc... not paying any federal income taxes, and rightly so. A presidential candidate should be held up to the same scrutiny.

If he didn't follow the law we would know by now. I bet the IRS has sifted through his tax returns with a fine tooth comb by now.

Not paying your taxes tend to make the news, especially celebrities and politicians.

683 blueraven  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 11:21:46am

re: #679 Mocking Jay

Lots of unethical shit is perfectly legal. Seriously. They're not the same.

QFT

Witness the credit default swaps that nearly brought down the US economy. All legal.

684 blueraven  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 11:26:42am

re: #682 NJDhockeyfan

If he didn't follow the law we would know by now. I bet the IRS has sifted through his tax returns with a fine tooth comb by now.

Not paying your taxes tend to make the news, especially celebrities and politicians.

Not if he got amnesty. That is what the word means...no prosecution or public knowledge, if you pay up.
Son of BOSS was a scheme but not illegal at the time

Beginning in the late 1990s, advisers at some accounting and law firms marketed the Son of BOSS transaction in various forms. It is likely several thousand taxpayers used the shelter before 2000 when the Treasury and the Congress began taking steps to block its tax benefits.[1]

685 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 11:27:49am

re: #659 NJDhockeyfan

He's had 3 1/2 years to do that. What's he been waiting for?

Maybe waiting for the 85th fucking vote on repealing "Obamacare" to get done and those fuckers moving their attention onto things that matter to the American middle class people.

686 engineer cat  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 11:30:19am

"I've paid all the taxes required by law."

and the wealthy people in this country have bought themselves a lot of law

687 Lidane  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 11:34:39am

re: #673 Mocking Jay

I ♥ listening to Republicans stick up for a politician they cannot stand.

It's hilarious watching the same bloggers who savaged Romney as an out of touch, elitist RINO and liberal suddenly defending him as an unwavering bastion of conservatism. ROFL.

688 kirkspencer  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 11:35:34am

re: #682 NJDhockeyfan

If he didn't follow the law we would know by now. I bet the IRS has sifted through his tax returns with a fine tooth comb by now.

Not paying your taxes tend to make the news, especially celebrities and politicians.

No, I bet they have not sifted through his tax returns with a fine tooth comb.

First, who gets selected is a bit of a lottery. There are weighting factors (basically more tickets for the lottery) but it's still mostly a lottery. Second, Romney's a candidate. There are some regulations regarding audits of potential opponents of the president (and senators and congressmen, for that matter). Barring clear and obvious reason to investigate, their returns are hands off for the election window.

I'd like to point out, if I may, the dog that has not barked. Among all his Republican defenders you do not find McCain or his VP vetting team. They are silent. Please recall that they examined 12 years of Romney's returns back in 2008.

That said I'm going to repeat my earlier point. I strongly suspect that Romney paid the legal amount, but legal and right aren't the same -- and that matters for this particular job. It's one of the standards for the vetting process for both the position and its deputy, the vice president.

To know a man's beliefs, follow his money. Right now it appears that Romney's belief IS his money - and I'd rather have someone who cared about the nation instead.

689 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 12:27:27pm

re: #608 NJDhockeyfan

FBI: FRC Shooter Had 15 Chick-Fil-A Sandwiches, Said ‘I Don’t Like Your Politics’

Weapons, ammo, and...chicken sandwiches?

I have to say, I really, really wonder what he meant to do with the sandwiches.

Thinking about it too hard will probably lead me to macabre places in my mind.

690 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 16, 2012 12:28:42pm

re: #639 Daniel Ballard

Back to the topic
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Corkins -- who was carrying 15 Chick-fil-A sandwiches in his backpack along with the pistol and extra ammunition -- "has strong opinions with respect to those he believes do not treat homosexuals in a fair manner," authorities said in the complaint, citing his parents.

I wonder what the story is with the parents.


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