1 Charles Johnson  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 8:29:10pm

That's one vote in favor of right wing dishonesty from Dark_Falcon.

2 darthstar  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 8:29:14pm
3 darthstar  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 8:32:15pm

re: #1 Charles Johnson

That's one vote in favor of right wing dishonesty from Dark_Falcon.

Dark_Falcon is a harmless critter on his own, but he represents one of the problems we face in this country...people are so self-absorbed that they're willing to say "fuck everyone else" so long as they think they won't be adversely affected. The thing that DF and others don't understand, of course, is that they're the first to get fucked without lubrication because they're the ones who dropped their drawers and volunteered for the privilege.

4 darthstar  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 8:32:54pm

re: #3 darthstar

Holy crap..I'm already on a theme in two posts.

5 jaunte  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 8:33:47pm

I guess there are no substantive arguments in favor of Romney's whiteboard.

6 darthstar  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 8:35:16pm
7 allegro  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 8:36:09pm

That was beautifully done. Thorough, to the point, easily understood. Called a liar a liar.

Who are these guys and what happened to the Democratic party?

8 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 8:37:54pm

re: #3 darthstar

Dark_Falcon is a harmless critter on his own, but he represents one of the problems we face in this country...people are so self-absorbed that they're willing to say "fuck everyone else" so long as they think they won't be adversely affected. The thing that DF and others don't understand, of course, is that they're the first to get fucked without lubrication because they're the ones who dropped their drawers and volunteered for the privilege.

So many of we, the petite bourgeoisie really need to understand that we ARE NOT THE 1%. We are Workers, and don't depend on them.

9 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 8:38:26pm

Stephanie Cutter should call me.

/so ronery!

10 Interesting Times  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 8:38:38pm

Socialists!!11!!!

11 Charles Johnson  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 8:39:22pm

I can't tell you how pleased I am to see the Obama campaign hitting back HARD against the right wing lies. It's long past time for this to happen.

12 Lidane  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 8:39:25pm

re: #7 allegro

Who are these guys and what happened to the Democratic party?

That's what the Romney campaign is wondering. Obama was supposed to be an ineffectual wimp and crumble like a house of cards at the first sign of any GOP attacks. It's shocking to them that he's actually fighting back.

The GOP fell for their own bullshit about Obama being weak, ignoring the fact that they've been attacking him non-stop for the last four years and now his re-election campaign gives him a chance to get a bit of his own back. They don't know how to handle it.

13 Gus  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 8:43:10pm

re: #11 Charles Johnson

I can't tell you how pleased I am to see the Obama campaign hitting back HARD against the right wing lies. It's long past time for this to happen.

Much has changed over the years. Twitter and the growth of the internet has played a primary role in that. Hence the big differences in how Kerry was Swiftboated compared to their feeble attempts to Swiftboat Obama which are met with fierce opposition and information on the backers. Another thing to think about is look at how well Obama is doing compared to Romney. Romney has spent nearly 8 times as much as the Obama camp and at this moment in time Obama leads in electoral vote predictions. 8 times!

14 Gus  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 8:46:15pm

re: #2 darthstar

[Embedded content]

Why?

15 blueraven  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 8:48:38pm

What really bugs the hell out of me is that Romney/Ryan think we are stupid. That we dont know who is really trying to take the bite out of Medicare.

Some will believe it of course, but conversely, wont it piss off the deficit hawks that they aren't pushing the Ryan plan? They are chiding Obama for cuts?

It is insulting and totally dishonest. If they believe in their approach, why wont they campaign on it?

The hypocrisy. It reeks.

16 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 8:48:48pm

re: #11 Charles Johnson

I can't tell you how pleased I am to see the Obama campaign hitting back HARD against the right wing lies. It's long past time for this to happen.

Finally, no more.
No way are we going to be these fucks
anymore...

17 Kragar  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 8:50:42pm

Akin Suggests The Voting Rights Act Of 1965 Should Be Overturned

Republican Congressman Todd Akin said Friday afternoon he thinks it’s time for a second look at federal “civil rights and voting rights” laws.

The republican U.S. senate candidate told FOX 2’s Charles Jaco states not the federal government should set voter rules.

Congressman Akin of course is trying to unseat democratic Senator Claire McCaskill. And Akin has always said the federal government’s role should be much smaller than it is.

But Akin says that federal voting rights laws may need to be looked at, changed or overturned is something new. Those laws were passed in 1964, 1965 and 1968. The voting rights act of 1965 prevented mostly southern states from using things like literacy tests to keep African-Americans from voting. The civil rights act of 1964 outlawed similar voting restrictions.

18 Hal_10000  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 8:51:01pm

I find Cutter's response underwhelming. The fact is that Obamacare does cut Medicare by $716 billion through cuts in fee-for-service and the review board. You can call these "savings" if you want. If someone else proposed it, they would be called cuts. Not to excuse Romney's dissembling, of course.

It's aggravating that our two parties keep trying to distance themselves from the central reality of the budget: that Medicare, unchecked, has tens of trillions in unfunded liabilities that have to be addressed somehow. We're not debating that anymore; we're debating how to make those cuts. The President's plan is more direct than Ryan's and doesn't come with unsustainable tax cuts.

19 Gus  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 8:54:46pm

re: #17 Kragar

Akin Suggests The Voting Rights Act Of 1965 Should Be Overturned

Tood Akin. ;)

20 blueraven  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 8:54:57pm

re: #18 Hal_10000

I find Cutter's response underwhelming. The fact is that Obamacare does cut Medicare by $716 billion through cuts in fee-for-service and the review board. You can call these "savings" if you want. If someone else proposed it, they would be called cuts. It's aggravating that our two parties keep trying to distance themselves from the central reality of the budget: that Medicare, unchecked, has tens of trillions in unfunded liabilities that have to be addressed somehow. We're not debating that anymore; we're debating how to make those cuts. The President's plan is more direct than Ryan's and doesn't come with unsustainable tax cuts.

A big portion of the "cuts" is from overpayment to private insurance for Medicare Advantage. There are no cuts to basic medicare benefits. And, as you know, it plugs the prescription drug donut hole.

21 jaunte  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 8:56:18pm

FAQ: Decoding The $716 Billion In Medicare Reductions

Q: Where would Medicare spending be reduced?
A: The July report from CBO and JCT found that hospital reimbursements would be reduced by $260 billion from 2013-2022, while federal payments to Medicare Advantage, the private insurance plans in Medicare, would be cut by approximately $156 billion. Other Medicare spending reductions include $39 billion less for skilled nursing services; $66 billion less for home health and $17 billion less for hospice. The law does not make any cuts to the amount of benefits beneficiaries receive and adds some new benefits, including closing the "doughnut hole" gap in Medicare prescription drug coverage, and new preventive services, such as an annual wellness visit with a physician.

Medicare's trustees say the law prolongs the solvency of the Medicare trust fund. In addition, supporters say that hospitals and other health care providers would be able to bear reduced payments because the cuts would be offset somewhat by increased revenues from millions of new customers who would gain health insurance through the law. They also argue that the Medicare Advantage plans were being overpaid since the cost per beneficiary was higher than what beneficiaries of traditional Medicare cost the government. But critics and some independent analysts have questioned whether cutting payments to these providers will result in a loss of quality or push some providers to refuse to participate in Medicare.

22 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 8:56:26pm

obligatory daily reality check of cuteness.

23 Kragar  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 8:57:21pm

re: #21 jaunte

FAQ: Decoding The $716 Billion In Medicare Reductions

Stop clouding the issue with facts.

24 Charles Johnson  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 8:57:48pm

re: #18 Hal_10000

I find Cutter's response underwhelming. The fact is that Obamacare does cut Medicare by $716 billion through cuts in fee-for-service and the review board. You can call these "savings" if you want. If someone else proposed it, they would be called cuts. Not to excuse Romney's dissembling, of course.

False. The Obama plan curtails Medicare spending, without any cuts in benefits, and increases fees for the wealthy. These are NOT "cuts."

26 The Ghost of a Flea  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 8:59:30pm

re: #13 Gus

Much has changed over the years. Twitter and the growth of the internet has played a primary role in that. Hence the big differences in how Kerry was Swiftboated compared to their feeble attempts to Swiftboat Obama which are met with fierce opposition and information on the backers. Another thing to think about is look at how well Obama is doing compared to Romney. Romney has spent nearly 8 times as much as the Obama camp and at this moment in time Obama leads in electoral vote predictions. 8 times!

The internet has also made it very hard to ignore the parallel reality set up by right-wing loons, and how much candidates have to buy in to get full GOP support. Oaths to Grover Norquist, kissing the ring of Bryan Fischer and about a dozen other Christian Nationalists in-all-but-name, the tiny number of billionaires that dump money into fake "concern" groups....

And David Barton. Can't forget him.

27 Lidane  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 9:00:32pm

re: #17 Kragar

Akin Suggests The Voting Rights Act Of 1965 Should Be Overturned

There's a bunch of that bullshit that's been emerging from the RWNJs lately.

They want to gut the Civil Rights Act. They want to kill the Voting Rights Act. They want to get rid of direct election of Senators and a whole host of other bad ideas. What. The. FUCK. Who are these people and how in the hell did they ever get anywhere in politics?

28 Hal_10000  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 9:01:44pm

re: #20 blueraven

See above. $415 billion comes from cutting reimbursements; $156 billion from Medicare Advantage. The problem with the reimbursement cuts is that, as the NYT has shown, we are already having doctors refused to take new Medicare patients because of Medicare's low rates (about 50% of private rates).

In the end, however, it is likely that these cuts will never happen or be significantly reduced. They have been delayed for the last ten years and the support of the AMA was secured by promising to delay them further.

29 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 9:01:50pm

This is good too! You can get it on a maternity top as well. I've gotten more updings on fb from this one than any other. Which is rather positive news, I think.

Strange what people "like".

30 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 9:02:10pm

re: #25 Gus

Image: 7511017902_b6cd0b58c5_o.jpg

awwwwwww! I want one!

31 Gus  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 9:03:19pm

re: #30 ggt

awwwwwww! I want one!

Image: pandaquestion1.jpg

32 Hal_10000  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 9:03:49pm

re: #24 Charles Johnson

It cuts reimbursement rates through SGR cuts. Do you really think you can reimbursement rates and not have less care?

33 blueraven  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 9:04:13pm

re: #28 Hal_10000

See above. $415 billion comes from cutting reimbursements; $156 billion from Medicare Advantage. The problem with the reimbursement cuts is that, as the NYT has shown, we are already having doctors refused to take new Medicare patients because of Medicare's low rates (about 50% of private rates).

In the end, however, it is likely that these cuts will never happen or be significantly reduced. They have been delayed for the last ten years and the support of the AMA was secured by promising to delay them further.

A lot of the savings come from "fee for service" and unnecessary procedures. That needs to happen.

34 Kragar  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 9:04:22pm

re: #29 ggt

This is good too! You can get it on a maternity top as well. I've gotten more updings on fb from this one than any other. Which is rather positive news, I think.

Strange what people "like".

For Kilgore...

35 b_sharp  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 9:04:23pm

re: #17 Kragar

Akin Suggests The Voting Rights Act Of 1965 Should Be Overturned

OK, now this guy is starting to sound like a Paulian fantasist. They like the sound of State sponsored/controlled racism.

36 blueraven  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 9:07:03pm

re: #28 Hal_10000

See above. $415 billion comes from cutting reimbursements; $156 billion from Medicare Advantage. The problem with the reimbursement cuts is that, as the NYT has shown, we are already having doctors refused to take new Medicare patients because of Medicare's low rates (about 50% of private rates).

In the end, however, it is likely that these cuts will never happen or be significantly reduced. They have been delayed for the last ten years and the support of the AMA was secured by promising to delay them further.

Also, it would be customary to cite your source not just "as the NYT has shown"

37 Hal_10000  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 9:08:17pm

re: #33 blueraven

You are actually like to see *more* unnecessary procedures with SGR cuts as they try to make up for the lower rates with increased volume. In fact, this is what Medicare has told doctor for the last thirty years, since they froze reimbursement rates in 1982 -- to make it up with volume.

38 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 9:08:53pm

re: #31 Gus

Image: pandaquestion1.jpg

stop, I may melt.

39 b_sharp  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 9:10:25pm

re: #18 Hal_10000

I find Cutter's response underwhelming. The fact is that Obamacare does cut Medicare by $716 billion through cuts in fee-for-service and the review board. You can call these "savings" if you want. If someone else proposed it, they would be called cuts. Not to excuse Romney's dissembling, of course.

It's aggravating that our two parties keep trying to distance themselves from the central reality of the budget: that Medicare, unchecked, has tens of trillions in unfunded liabilities that have to be addressed somehow. We're not debating that anymore; we're debating how to make those cuts. The President's plan is more direct than Ryan's and doesn't come with unsustainable tax cuts.

You're playing semantic word games. What is essential is how changes affect the access to high level medical care. Taking money from a wasteful portion of a program and using it to increase either the access to or the quality of medical care is not gutting but enhancing care.

The care is what is important, not the label used.

40 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 9:11:48pm

It's attributed to Mark Twain

41 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 9:12:39pm

I'm out for the night --maybe. One never knows.

Have a great one all!

42 Hal_10000  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 9:13:47pm

re: #36 blueraven

Here. Here. Here This isn't difficult to dig up.

43 Charles Johnson  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 9:13:54pm

Top Six Myths About Medicare - Yahoo! Finance

MYTH THREE: OBAMACARE SLASHES $700 BLN FROM MEDICARE

Facts: The Romney-Ryan campaign has trotted out this scary-sounding number to deflect attention from Ryan's voucher plan. But it is largely a false claim because it implies that the health reform law slashes benefits.

The Affordable Care Act actually delivers expanded benefits to seniors. It closes the prescription drug donut hole over time, with 3.6 million seniors saving a collective $2.1 billion last year; it also expands preventive services, including an annual wellness visit, mammograms and prostate cancer screenings with no out-of-pocket cost.

Obamacare does cut $700 billion in Medicare spending over a 10-year period. But the cuts are adjustments in payments to Medicare providers, which are mostly meaningless to patients. According to the CBO, the ACA's 10-year cuts include $415 billion in fee-for-service payments to healthcare providers, $156 billion in reduced payments to Medicare Advantage plans, $56 billion to hospitals, and $114 billion in other miscellaneous cuts far too numerous to detail here.

44 Charles Johnson  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 9:15:07pm

Sure didn't take long for someone to show up promoting right wing talking points, did it?

45 jaunte  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 9:17:02pm
Medicare spending will soar in the years ahead as the number of seniors grows, but its per-capita growth is slower than private health insurance - and it is getting better. "We may be reaching the point now where Medicare healthcare expenses are growing no more quickly than growth of the economy overall," said John Rother, chief executive officer of the National Coalition on Health Care (NCHC). "That's important, but it might as well be a state secret as far as the public and Congress goes."

The average annual per-capita spending growth rate through 2019 is projected at 3.1 percent for Medicare, compared with 4.9 percent for private insurance plans, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation. The 3.1 percent projection even includes higher payments to doctors as part of a long-term solution to the long-running problem of the sustainable growth rate (SGR) used under current law to control Medicare spending on physician services.[Link: finance.yahoo.com...]

I think the doctors will stay in business.

46 Kragar  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 9:17:05pm

re: #44 Charles Johnson

Sure didn't take long for someone to show up promoting right wing talking points, did it?

Eh, It's a living.
/

47 Charles Johnson  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 9:17:43pm

re: #45 jaunte

I think the doctors will stay in business.

Something tells me the doctors will come out OK.

48 Hal_10000  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 9:17:43pm

So, Charles, you have the same numbers I do. Where they are wrong is in the statement, "But the cuts are adjustments in payments to Medicare providers, which are mostly meaningless to patients." Everyone knows this is garbage. Would anyone put with the statement that changes to the food stamp program would be "invisible" if we forced grocers to sell their good at half price? Or if we slashed teachers' salaries, would those changes be "invisible"?

Congresses -- both Democratic and Republican -- have delayed SGR cuts for a decade precisely because they fear that this will drop the participation rate in the program. So either the number of doctors and hospitals available to Medicare patients will go down or the cuts (excuse me, "savings") will have to be cancelled.

49 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 9:17:51pm

re: #9 goddamnedfrank

Stephanie Cutter should call me.

/so ronery!

Frank, we have got to get you a lady.

/All in good fun.

50 Charles Johnson  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 9:19:06pm

re: #42 Hal_10000

Here. Here. Here This isn't difficult to dig up.

These links appear to have nothing to do with the points you're making, except in a very general way. How do you think they support your talking points? Because I'm not seeing it.

51 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 9:19:41pm

PANDA CAM

omg just based on your posts I decided to check Panda Cam - SD zoo has a new baby panda and the Bai Lin (sp?) the mom just showed it. check it out

52 Hal_10000  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 9:20:35pm

re: #44 Charles Johnson

Disagreeing with Obama does not mean I agree with whatever it is Romney is saying at this particular hour of the day. He doesn't have a Medicare plan at all. And his Veep's plan is extremely optimistic about the insurance market. Seniors are never going to be a profitable insurance demographic; that's sort of why we created Medicare in the first place.

53 Hal_10000  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 9:21:43pm

re: #50 Charles Johnson

All three reference doctors opting out of Medicare and Medicaid because of low reimbursement rates ... which, as you note, is what 60% of Obama's Medicare savings are based on.

54 Origuy  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 9:22:33pm

re: #50 Charles Johnson

The first one is from April 2009, the second from 2010, and the third requires a login, so I didn't see it. What do they have to do with anything?

55 Lidane  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 9:27:29pm

re: #52 Hal_10000

And his Veep's plan is extremely optimistic about the insurance market.

No, his Veep's plan is complete and utter bullshit wrapped in a fantasy and surrounded by a bunch of right-wing delusions.

56 freetoken  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 9:27:57pm

Since these types of claims are so readily checked by analyzing the actual recorded proposals or passed laws, it makes one wonder why a campaign would think they could get away with misstating the facts. Eh?

57 Targetpractice  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 9:30:03pm

re: #55 Lidane

No, his Veep's plan is complete and utter bullshit wrapped in a fantasy and surrounded by a bunch of right-wing delusions.

His Veep's plan was classic "compassionate conservatism": Cut the elderly a check and watch the magic of the "free market" cut costs while keeping or expanding the level of care.

58 Hal_10000  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 9:31:30pm

re: #56 freetoken

Every day, I'm more startled by the dishonesty in Romney's campaign. I'm known to be cynical about politicians; but this guy is making Bush II look like a titan of honesty.

59 freetoken  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 9:33:06pm

Propaganda Techniques:

Repetition
This is the repeating of a certain symbol or slogan so that the audience remembers it. This could be in the form of a jingle or an image placed on nearly everything in the picture/scene.

60 blueraven  Fri, Aug 17, 2012 9:37:15pm

re: #42 Hal_10000

Here. Here. Here This isn't difficult to dig up.

Nice/
The NYT article was written in April 2009 before the PPACA.
The USA one really doesn't have anything to do with what we are talking about specifically
And the other one is about medicaid.

I guess it is difficult after all.

61 Ming  Sat, Aug 18, 2012 1:56:30pm

An excellent video. Unfortunately, the Obama campaign needs its "Truth Team". Romney may well have chosen Ryan as his running mate simply for Ryan's ability to lie. Think about it: a more honest running mate might create some awkward moments on the campaign trail, when asked to actually, you know, give his (or Romney's) position on something. Ryan will present no such problem for the Romney campaign.


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