Todd Akin’s Comments Symptomatic of Bigger Problems For GOP

Not isolated.
Opinion • Views: 29,416

GOP officials are trying their hardest to contain the fallout from the reprehensible comments made by Missouri Congressman Todd Akin, who is seeking a US Senate seat in a race against Claire McCaskill. Even Presidential candidate Mitt Romney and his vice president nominee Paul Ryan called on Akin to quit the campaign. Akin has refused thus far, and he missed the deadline to withdraw without requiring court approval (or to pay the costs for redoing the ballots).

The problem for the GOP is that his comments weren’t merely a misstatement or ill-conceived (as Akin himself put it on his own website - awkwardly at that). They are symptomatic of a much larger problem for the GOP. You’ve got Republicans who support restricting abortion to only those cases of forcible rape - or restricting federal funding for all abortions, including in cases of rape or incest.

Then, you’ve got social conservatives claiming that women can’t get pregnant from rape, and basing it on research carried out by the Nazis during World War II (where they took prisoners and subjected them to gas chambers to see if stress affected ovulation).

The misogyny runs deep with Republicans. It’s not just Akin. There’s Kansas state Rep. Pete DeGraaf who suggested women should plan ahead for rape the way he keeps a spare tire. Indiana state Rep. Eric Turner said some women might fake being raped in order to get free abortions.

Then, there’s the litany of attempts to impose onerous and invasive ultrasound procedures that would have the effect of reducing the number of abortions and abortion providers, including in Virginia. Moreover, such requirements might constitute state-imposed rape on such women because the procedure isn’t medically required or indicated.

Or the series of personhood amendments propagated by Republicans across the nation giving embryos rights that would necessarily limit the rights of women to control their own bodies. Moreover, those same personhood amendments could seriously restrict access to in-vitro fertilization and other similar techniques, to say nothing of embroyonic stem cell research.

But perhaps the biggest sign that Akin isn’t an isolated case: Akin claims that the fallout from his comments has led to a big increase in campaign contributions although it should be noted that he only bested his modest goal of $10,000:

‘Donations are pouring in. Thank you for standing up against the liberal elite,’ Mr. Akin wrote on Twitter last night.

A counted on Mr. Akin’s website said, as of this writing, Mr. Akin had raised $10,638 since beginning a ‘still standing’ campaign following his remarks. On Twitter last night, Mr. Akin said his goal was hitting ‘$10k to fight the liberal elite.’ He also posted a series of messages blaming the ‘liberal elite’ for driving a ‘a lot of negativity’ his way and for pushing around and otherwise intimidating those in the pro-life movement.

I’m not surprised by that.

The true tragedy is that the race for the Missouri Senate seat is as close as it is, even with the furor about Akin’s comments. Akin may still win the contest against McCaskill. That’s troublesome in its own right and shows just how deep the support goes for the belief system that Akin revealed in last Sunday’s interview.

Nor am I surprised when Kirk Cameron comes out in support of Akin. Cameron went on CNN to defend Akin:

One defender? Kirk Cameron. The child-star-turned-evangelist was on CNN this morning discussing the remarks, and Cameron encouraged people to watch the whole video (which you can here) and then said, ‘[Akin] is clearly a pro-life advocate and I respect him. He said that he misspoke and that he misphrased something and that he apologized.’

Rep. Akin released a statement after the interview saying he ‘misspoke,’ but hasn’t backed away from his remarks. Despite calls on Akin to get out of the Missouri Senate race, so far he’s staying in.

‘I’m the kind of person that believes that I would like to be evaluated by my entire career and my entire life, not two words that I would misspeak and then later apologize for,’ Cameron told CNN. ‘So he’s in a tough spot.’

The problem is that Akin didn’t misspeak. He said exactly what he thought. He said precisely what his ultimate intentions are. He didn’t misphrase anything. Akin said exactly what he thought. He believes that there is such a thing as legitimate rape - and his prior history of trying to impose restrictions for forcible rape is proof that this is what Akin actually believes. It goes to the belief that some women who are victims are rape deserved what they got - it’s a combination of slut shaming and treating women as second class citizens who can’t be trusted with control over their own bodies, and is misogynistic at its core.

Cameron’s comments are echoed by other religious leaders, including Bryan Fischer.

In other words, if we go by what Akin has said and done over his entire political career - these words that Akin claims were misspoken … weren’t. Akin meant exactly what he said. He cowrote legislation that would create the nonsensical category of “forcible rape” along with Paul Ryan (but which didn’t get passed because of the furor it created).

Cameron is right in one respect though- Akin is in a tough spot, along with the rest of the GOP that has wholly subsumed the social conservative agenda.

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138 comments
1 SpaceJesus  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 1:12:07pm

nice piece

2 engineer cat  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 1:13:06pm

the obama campaign should run an ad reading the GOP platform on abortion, and the abortion legislation that ryan submitted

these morons could be defeated by merely letting them explain their positions in detail - mitt and paul know this and they have been practicing the fine art of being extremely vague all week - teevee interviewers have been asking ryan to explain how his budget is supposed to work, and he won't do it

3 engineer cat  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 1:13:53pm

re: #1 SpaceJesus

nice piece

kudos to lawhawk for practising journalism

4 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 1:15:28pm

re: #3 engineer cat

that's not journalism, there's no "both sides" balance. //

5 Interesting Times  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 1:20:53pm
6 Charles Johnson  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 1:25:39pm

re: #5 Interesting Times

Tampa's hookers and gay escort services are also praying for good weather.

7 Gus  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 1:26:43pm

Good work Lawhawk.

8 lh2241  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 1:27:12pm

(Used to post under username Lanaty, can't seem to access it anymore or get the password reminder. Hi everyone!)

Let's imagine that abortions were illegal except in the case of rape or incest. Could somebody explain to me how a woman would go about getting an abortion using the rape/incest exception? Incest just requires a DNA test to prove, but rape is notoriously difficult to prove in court in the absence of obvious evidence of a struggle. Do you just need to tell a doctor you were raped? Or do you have to wait for a court to convict your attacker? The latter would effectively constitute an abortion ban, since trials take a long time and pregnancy is time-sensitive.

9 lawhawk  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 1:27:50pm

re: #3 engineer cat

I'd consider it an op-ed piece, not a straight news piece. But it is researched.

A few links that could be added (since it's now been promoted):

The link showing Ryan and Akin's attempt to create a category of forcible rape (and there's a new report indicating a separate attempt by Ryan to include forcible rape in a second piece of legislation).

Bryan Fischer said that Akin's comments were right.

And here's where Akin and others got that trope about how rape victims can't get pregnant (Seattle Post going into the history).

10 Eventual Carrion  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 1:27:51pm

Kirk Camoron is a doosh. And if I have to live under religious rules, churches can start paying the price of admission to government activity, pay taxes you deadbeat fucks.

11 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 1:28:58pm

It's a problem, it's BIG PROBEM. The American Taliban is playing for keeps. I don't want to live in the Christian Version of Iran any more than I want to live in the Christian version of a (sorry to Godwin) Nazi Germany or Lenin's Russia.

If I make it thru this election without being disabled from panic attacks it will be a miracle. As the NRA-types always tell us --Freedom Must Be Won.

Well, I grew-up hearing that stuff and I do know what it means. I will fight for my rights and I will not ever give-up. I choose the rule of law and the ballot box, for now . . .

It applies to the whole Constitution and Bill of Rights, to all people.

12 lawhawk  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 1:29:22pm

re: #6 Charles Johnson

Heh.

13 lawhawk  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 1:31:08pm

Oh, and another link - this one is for Akin's awkward website attempts that were a jumble of grammar and visual gaffes.

14 blueraven  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 1:34:03pm

Great page lawhawk

Yes, the really insane pleading from the likes of Sean Hannity to get rid of Akin just proves how desperate they are to sweep this all under the rug.

15 Eventual Carrion  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 1:36:39pm

re: #8 lh2241

(Used to post under username Lanaty, can't seem to access it anymore or get the password reminder. Hi everyone!)

Let's imagine that abortions were illegal except in the case of rape or incest. Could somebody explain to me how a woman would go about getting an abortion using the rape/incest exception? Incest just requires a DNA test to prove, but rape is notoriously difficult to prove in court in the absence of obvious evidence of a struggle. Do you just need to tell a doctor you were raped? Or do you have to wait for a court to convict your attacker? The latter would effectively constitute an abortion ban, since trials take a long time and pregnancy is time-sensitive.

That's the idea. Don't piss people off by making it illegal, just make it so damn hard to fulfill the proof that it is almost impossible to get. Like Ashcroft and the physician assisted suicide law that passed voters, but he put a stop to it not by changing what the people voted for but made it unlawful for a physician to do it. So a person was allowed physician assisted suicide but the physician wasn't allowed to do it for you.

16 celticdragon  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 1:39:27pm
The true tragedy is that the race for the Missouri Senate seat is as close as it is, even with the furor about Akin’s comments. Akin may still win the contest against McCaskill. That’s troublesome in its own right and shows just how deep the support goes for the belief system that Akin revealed in last Sunday’s interview.

Tragedy doesn't go far enough. The word we need here is terrifying.

Put a Romney/Ryan victory in the context of a House GOP caucus who really believes this Medievalism. Think of a 6-3 SCOTUS getting rid of all abortions and most forms of birth control...not to mention possibly over turning Lawrence V Texas and re criminalizing gay people. This is what they are gunning for before age and ethnic voting trends make it impossible. They intend to do as much damage as they can that will last for the next 50 years.

17 erik_t  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 1:39:28pm

re: #15 RayFerd

So a person was allowed physician assisted suicide but the physician wasn't allowed to do it for you.

For many years, in Louisiana it was illegal for a person under 21 to buy alcohol, but it wasn't illegal for a store to sell alcohol to a person under 21.

Oh, those were the days...

18 Kragar  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 1:39:48pm

Rush once again claims he is the real power in the GOP.

Rush Limbaugh: I could have made Todd Akin quit

Rush Limbaugh said Wednesday that he had the power to convince Rep. Todd Akin (R-Mo.) to quit his Senate race.

“If I had demanded Akin drop out, he’d be gone,” he said. “If I had demanded that Akin quit the campaign, he’d be gone.”

Rush Limbaugh, the man who has more power than in the GOP than their own Presidential candidate.

19 erik_t  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 1:44:07pm

re: #18 Kragar

Rush once again claims he is the real power in the GOP.

Rush Limbaugh: I could have made Todd Akin quit

I think it's a statement of fact.

20 lawhawk  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 1:46:23pm

re: #18 Kragar

So why didn't he?

21 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 1:48:21pm

Top notch post.

22 engineer cat  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 1:52:18pm

Rush Limbaugh: I could have made Todd Akin quit

too much of a right wing moron for rush

this is quite an accomplishment

23 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 1:52:55pm

re: #21 Talking Point Detective

Curious, though. Is it accurate that they said that women can't get pregnant from rape?

24 abolitionist  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 1:56:00pm

re: #23 Talking Point Detective

Curious, though. Is it accurate that they said that women can't get pregnant from rape?

Only when they can't prove they didn't enjoy it.

25 Eventual Carrion  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 1:56:58pm

re: #23 Talking Point Detective

Curious, though. Is it accurate that they said that women can't get pregnant from rape?

Can't get pregnant from "forcible" rape. The trauma and such would prevent conception in their mind. So if a woman got pregnant from rape, it really wasn't rape, she is a lying skank.

26 RadicalModerate  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 1:58:15pm

Guess who else has been given an invitation to speak at one of the GOP convention events?

Good old Stormfront Joe himself.

Sheriff Joe Arpaio To Speak At 'Invitation-Only' Reception During GOP Convention

27 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 1:59:04pm

re: #18 Kragar

Rush once again claims he is the real power in the GOP.

Rush Limbaugh: I could have made Todd Akin quit

Rush Limbaugh, the man who has more power than in the GOP than their own Presidential candidate.

Rush on the air yesterday:

He needs to get out for the good of the party, for the good of the country, for the good of the presidential campaign, and we gotta defeat Obama. I agree with that, by the way. I think there are a lot of things here larger than single individuals.

Saving the country, from our perspective, is at the top of that. Repealing Obamacare is at the top of that. And any distraction that makes it tougher to vote for Romney and Ryan is something that we don't need. I understand all that. At the same time, I'm a guy on the radio. Who am I to tell this man what to do? He knows what he's gotta do. He knows the right thing to do, and he knows whether he's gonna do it or not. And he's got hundreds of people leaning on him, trying to reach him by phone or what have you.

[...]

And Todd Akin has got to realize that whatever he thinks is the number one thing he should fight for here above all -- and above anything that's personal to any one person -- is saving this country. And that means winning the Senate and winning the election against Obama.

That's what he has to realize, and I hope he makes the right decision.

[...]

OK, he didn't demand, but he made his desires clear.

28 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 1:59:49pm

re: #25 RayFerd

Can't get pregnant from "forcible" rape. The trauma and such would prevent conception in their mind. So if a woman got pregnant from rape, it really wasn't rape, she is a lying skank.

Can't get pregnant or can prevent pregnancy? The later is obviously false, and is a heinous thing to say, but it isn't the same as the former.

29 seawitch1261  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 2:00:22pm

Rawstory has more info on the Nazi experiments used to justify the outrageous claims that women cannot get pregnant from rape.

30 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 2:01:14pm

Chris Matthews just started his show with "Let's talk about sex", I threw up in my mouth a little...

31 Eventual Carrion  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 2:04:40pm

re: #28 Talking Point Detective

Can't get pregnant or can prevent pregnancy? The later is obviously false, and is a heinous thing to say, but it isn't the same as the former.

I have heard a few different takes on the falsehood. I have heard it both ways. Can't get pregnant and also can prevent getting pregnant with some special secretion secreted.

32 allegro  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 2:07:49pm

Pregnancy is the result of sperm meeting egg. It has nothing to do with how the sperm got there and everything to do with the timing of ovulation. Consent or non-consent of the woman is irrelevant to the cells.

33 Lidane  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 2:08:39pm

Excellent post, Lawhawk. Well done!

Something that needs to be hammered over and over and over -- if you consider yourself a Republican or a conservative and you disagree with any of these ideas or policies that the GOP is articulating, STOP VOTING FOR THEM.

I don't care if you call yourself a fiscal conservative who cares more about the economy than social issues. I don't care if you think these sorts of things are a distraction from the "real" issues. If you think these cretins are going too far and that they're a bunch of atavistic, misogynist assholes, then don't vote for them because you think they might sound reasonable on something else or because they bat for "your" team.

You're part of the problem. The longer these douchebags think they have electoral support for their shitty, misogynist ideas because they keep winning office, the longer this shit will go on.

34 MittDoesNotCompute  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 2:08:51pm

re: #20 lawhawk

So why didn't he?

Because Rush didn't want to sandbag a fellow MO "conservative", even after the on-air rebuke-of-sorts he gave Akin earlier this week.

35 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 2:09:50pm

Has this video been posted and discussed?

36 abolitionist  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 2:12:01pm

re: #31 RayFerd

I have heard a few different takes on the falsehood. I have heard it both ways. Can't get pregnant and also can prevent getting pregnant with some special secretion secreted.

It's like the floatation test for witchcraft --different perverse logic, same misogyny.

37 allegro  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 2:14:09pm

re: #33 Lidane

Excellent post, Lawhawk. Well done!

Something that needs to be hammered over and over and over -- if you consider yourself a Republican or a conservative and you disagree with any of these ideas or policies that the GOP is articulating, STOP VOTING FOR THEM.

I don't care if you call yourself a fiscal conservative who cares more about the economy than social issues. I don't care if you think these sorts of things are a distraction from the "real" issues. If you think these cretins are going too far and that they're a bunch of atavistic, misogynist assholes, then don't vote for them because you think they might sound reasonable on something else.

You're part of the problem. The longer these douchebags think they have electoral support for their shitty, misogynist ideas because they keep winning office, the longer this shit will go on.

Ding! This was the essence of a conversation I had here yesterday with someone who (closely paraphrased) said the "GOP allowed itself to be taken over" by the religious right. No. It wasn't just passively "allowed." It was actively voted for by those who have voted for GOP office-holders and the party platforms for the past 20+ years.

38 erik_t  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 2:16:37pm

re: #37 allegro

The party is the people, the sum of all voters and all elected. There's nothing else.

39 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 2:17:16pm

re: #32 allegro

Pregnancy is the result of sperm meeting egg. It has nothing to do with how the sperm got there and everything to do with the timing of ovulation. Consent or non-consent of the woman is irrelevant to the cells.

That's fertilization. Pregnancy also requires implantation. It's not a crazy idea that a woman's emotional (and associated hormonal) state might affect that, but from what I've read, you wouldn't want to count on it.

40 allegro  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 2:20:06pm

re: #39 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne

That's fertilization. Pregnancy also requires implantation. It's not a crazy idea that a woman's emotional (and associated hormonal) state might affect that, but from what I've read, you wouldn't want to count on it.

Yes, it does require implantation. Many centuries of women getting pregnant as the result of violent rape effectively proves the silliness of that argument. With this much evidence, yeah, it's a crazy idea.

41 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 2:20:31pm

Misogyny is only one front in the GOP's war on sanity.

As we see in the bat-shit insane statements by Lubbock County judge Tom Head, many people in the GOP actually believe there is some legal or administrative mechanism that would allow US sovereignty to be signed away to the UN in some kind of "end-run" around the Constitution. Did they sleep through all their government classes? Is this elementary government stuff not required in Texas law schools if not the sixth grade?

At the risk of belaboring the obvious, treaties and agreements with the UN; or the Barbary pirates or the Fremen of Dune, for that matter; are not binding unless they are consistent with the constitution. They can be signed, ratified, and carved in stone on Mount Rushmore for all I care and they are still worthless and unenforceable if they do not pass muster with the constitution. That is the law, the supreme law of the land, and it has been since 1789.

Yet the fear of "Obama turning us over to the UN" is a red-hot talking point among the GOP base.

42 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 2:21:14pm

re: #40 allegro

Yes, it does require implantation. Many centuries of women getting pregnant as the result of violent rape effectively proves the silliness of that argument. With this much evidence, yeah, it's a crazy idea.

Note that I said "affect" not "prevent".

43 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 2:26:55pm

My wife was late on her period once due to stress (we had hoped it was pregnancy) but that takes time, it can't just be changed after one encounter (ie after a rape). If a woman is raped and is ovulating it can lead to pregnancy full stop. Even if it's a day or two before ovulation it can potentially lead to pregnancy because sperm can survive for a couple days "in there" according to info I've read in trying to get "us" pregnant.

44 allegro  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 2:27:03pm

re: #42 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne

Note that I said "affect" not "prevent".

That would appear to be a word distinction without a difference. A blastocyst implants or it doesn't thus it's prevented or it isn't. Perhaps the little blastocyst was affected and emotionally scarred by the rapist sperm but that isn't a testable hypothesis at this point.

45 Varek Raith  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 2:39:53pm

Good evening.

46 Varek Raith  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 2:42:20pm

[Link: www.nhc.noaa.gov...]
Clearly a sign.
Clearly.

47 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 2:43:06pm

Re-assuring wingntuts:

Given what we've seen of UN military capability there would be little cause for concern if the blue helmets did somehow show up.
If a UN brigade landed at DFW airport, the local ICE office could probably round them up and have them in the Tarrant County jail awaiting deportation within a few hours.

48 The Ghost of a Flea  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 2:45:50pm

re: #33 Lidane

Excellent post, Lawhawk. Well done!

Something that needs to be hammered over and over and over -- if you consider yourself a Republican or a conservative and you disagree with any of these ideas or policies that the GOP is articulating, STOP VOTING FOR THEM.

I don't care if you call yourself a fiscal conservative who cares more about the economy than social issues. I don't care if you think these sorts of things are a distraction from the "real" issues. If you think these cretins are going too far and that they're a bunch of atavistic, misogynist assholes, then don't vote for them because you think they might sound reasonable on something else or because they bat for "your" team.

You're part of the problem. The longer these douchebags think they have electoral support for their shitty, misogynist ideas because they keep winning office, the longer this shit will go on.

The purported "fiscial conservative" policy of the current GOP just services the theocratic and plutocratic portions of the party. All their changes either lock the US into a Christian Taliban worldview (with free eminent apocalypse, let's not forget) or allow a few people to amass and offshore money via means that screw the rest of the population.

49 Charles Johnson  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 2:46:28pm

Why is Paul Ryan sad?

Image: x910.jpg

50 RadicalModerate  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 2:48:50pm

re: #41 Shiplord Kirel

I think that the fact that will be a genuine John Birch Society plank in the national GOP platform (regarding the so-called UN "Agenda 21" conspiracy), and given the full-bore insanity of the people who will be allowed to speak at the convention, misogyny is merely the tip of the iceberg here.

51 Charles Johnson  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 2:49:11pm

re: #41 Shiplord Kirel

Yeah, we seem to be seeing a massive return of the John Birch far right anti-UN paranoia, but while it was away it got even uglier and crazier. And better-armed.

52 Varek Raith  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 2:49:38pm

re: #49 Charles Johnson

Why is Paul Ryan sad?

Image: x910.jpg

Because I took his chocolate milk from the fridge.

53 The Ghost of a Flea  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 2:50:03pm

re: #49 Charles Johnson

Why is Paul Ryan sad?

Image: x910.jpg

Paul Ryan only feels sorry for cell masses and rich people. Everybody else can go fuck themselves.

54 Kragar  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 2:52:11pm

Well, took off early to pick up a friend from the hospital only to find out someone else picked him up an hour earlier. Home early for the day.

55 Ming  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 2:52:13pm

Nice piece!

I always worry when I read statements like "The true tragedy is that the race for the Missouri Senate seat is as close as it is, even with the furor about Akin’s comments." (from the article). I hope that "as close as it is" takes into account who is actually likely to vote, considering what voter ID laws (and voter ID realities) will be in effect on November 6, 2012.

56 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 2:52:17pm

re: #49 Charles Johnson

how the wingnut pundits can say that he is attractive is beyond me, he looks like the gay offspring of lurch and eddie munster.

57 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 2:53:54pm
58 Kragar  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 2:53:57pm

re: #49 Charles Johnson

Why is Paul Ryan sad?

Image: x910.jpg

"Life is like a box of chocolates..."

59 abolitionist  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 2:54:10pm

re: #46 Varek Raith

[Link: www.nhc.noaa.gov...]
Clearly a sign.
Clearly.

Not so clearly. Recall how much Katrina helped Bush?
/(obligatory)

60 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 2:54:13pm

re: #44 allegro

That would appear to be a word distinction without a difference. A blastocyst implants or it doesn't thus it's prevented or it isn't. Perhaps the little blastocyst was affected and emotionally scarred by the rapist sperm but that isn't a testable hypothesis at this point.

I was looking at this as a statistical question. Does stress prevent implantation? No: clearly implantation can occur in women under stress. Can stress affect the percentage of fertilized eggs that actually implant? In the abstract, it seems possible, but I don't know, and neither do you.

61 Eventual Carrion  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 2:54:30pm

re: #57 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

Joe Walsh defends Akin LOL

But says he can't pay him any support either.

62 Lidane  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 2:55:14pm

re: #57 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

Joe Walsh defends Akin LOL

A deadbeat dad says what?

63 Kragar  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 2:55:35pm

re: #57 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

Joe Walsh defends Akin LOL

FRC's Man of the Year (still no word on his child support).

64 The Ghost of a Flea  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 2:55:41pm

re: #58 Kragar

"Life is like a box of chocolates..."

"...you're never sure if the vanilla cream got legitimately raped."

66 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 2:57:16pm

Questions regarding Voter ID laws:

(1) Are State Issued Photo ID's free of cost? Can a person be required to pay to vote?

(2) Have people been given enough time to acquire documents they need to get an Photo ID?

(3) Are issuing agencies being overtly strict in accepting documents. --I ask this question becaue: When my parents (ages 81 and 79 -married 48 years) tried to get their Illinois Photo ID, it took three trips and an appeal to the Manager of the facility. It was free of charge. My parents didn't not have their SS cards. They had proof of SS --letters, benefits and my father had his Army ID from the 1940's and his discharge papers. "White, college educated, well dress and articulate" --and I still had to appeal to the manager. So, if a person not fitting "the profile" doesn't have the appropriate documents, and doesn't have the hutzpah to ask for a manager are they going to be denied their right to vote?

67 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 2:58:12pm
68 Kragar  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 2:58:39pm

The Log Cabin Republicans should change their name to the Battered Spouse Republicans

Log Cabin Republicans Applaud Republican Party Debate Over Gay Issues Despite 'Abysmal' Results

"Tony Perkins may be boasting today about having written an antigay marriage plank into the Republican Party platform, but it will be a hollow and short-lived victory," said Log Cabin Republicans Executive Director R. Clarke Cooper. "The obsessive exclusion of gay couples, including military families, from the rights and responsibilities of marriage, combined with bizarre rhetoric about 'hate campaigns' and 'the homosexual rights agenda' are clear signs of desperation among social conservatives who know that public opinion is rapidly turning in favor of equality. Unfortunately, what voters can't see in this document is the significant debate within the Committee. We were pleased to see vigorous debate on amendments in support of civil unions and to delete language regarding DOMA. While these measures failed, the future direction of our party clearly trends toward inclusion. This may well be the last time a platform will cater to the likes of the Family Research Council on marriage, and the fact is, platforms rarely influence policy. Tony will never see his discrimination written into the United States Constitution."

Cooper continued, "Together with Young Conservatives for the Freedom to Marry, Log Cabin Republicans are proud to have encouraged this important debate at the Republican National Convention. Only by being in the room and speaking conservative to conservative will we succeed in building a stronger and more inclusive Republican party.

69 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 3:00:04pm

re: #66 ggt

(1) Are State Issued Photo ID's free of cost? Can a person be required to pay to vote?

The ID may be free but getting all the proof one needs to get the ID will, most likely, cost money so no, it's not free.

(2) Have people been given enough time to acquire documents they need to get an Photo ID?

IMO no, dealing with the DMV in any state is a PITA, trying to do so along with millions of others trying to get the "right ID" is a clusterfuck of epic proportions.

70 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 3:00:26pm

re: #60 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne

I was looking at this as a statistical question. Does stress prevent implantation? No: clearly implantation can occur in women under stress. Can stress affect the percentage of fertilized eggs that actually implant? In the abstract, it seems possible, but I don't know, and neither do you.

The body was designed for ONE thing --DNA SURVIVAL.

That means it is programmed to do three things --EAT, REPRODUCE AND LEARN.

REPRODUCTION MEANS SEX, CONCEPTION, IMPLANTATION, PREGNANCY AND BIRTH.

DNA Survival is the morality that exists in our world --God or no God.

71 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 3:01:04pm

re: #51 Charles Johnson

Yeah, we seem to be seeing a massive return of the John Birch far right anti-UN paranoia, but while it was away it got even uglier and crazier. And better-armed.

Yeah, well those GOP Women aren't all fucking stupid and they shoot too! Most better than their men.

72 Charles Johnson  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 3:03:16pm

I think I know why Paul Ryan is so sad.

Image: ZZ6DF4527B.jpg

73 Lidane  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 3:03:31pm

re: #68 Kragar

The Log Cabin Republicans should change their name to the Battered Spouse Republicans

Log Cabin Republicans Applaud Republican Party Debate Over Gay Issues Despite 'Abysmal' Results

If anyone doubts the existence of Stockholm Syndrome, look no further than the Log Cabin Republicans. WTF.

74 Kragar  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 3:04:24pm

re: #73 Lidane

If anyone doubts the existence of Stockholm Syndrome, look no further than the Log Cabin Republicans. WTF.

"We fell off the GOP platform. We're just so clumsy."

75 Sionainn  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 3:05:10pm

re: #66 ggt

Questions regarding Voter ID laws:

(1) Are State Issued Photo ID's free of cost? Can a person be required to pay to vote?

(2) Have people been given enough time to acquire documents they need to get an Photo ID?

(3) Are issuing agencies being overtly strict in accepting documents. --I ask this question becaue: When my parents (ages 81 and 79 -married 48 years) tried to get their Illinois Photo ID, it took three trips and an appeal to the Manager of the facility. It was free of charge. My parents didn't not have their SS cards. They had proof of SS --letters, benefits and my father had his Army ID from the 1940's and his discharge papers. "White, college educated, well dress and articulate" --and I still had to appeal to the manager. So, if a person not fitting "the profile" doesn't have the appropriate documents, and doesn't have the hutzpah to ask for a manager are they going to be denied their right to vote?

Exactly.

76 Sionainn  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 3:07:38pm

I just want to take a moment to thank all the male lizards who so staunchly defend the rights of women. You guys are the best!

77 engineer cat  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 3:08:00pm

re: #49 Charles Johnson

Why is Paul Ryan sad?

Image: x910.jpg

he just looks like a poor old hound dawg who can't figure out why the squirrels are teasing him

the poor dumb fuck is in for trouble now - nasty people will be always asking him hard kweschuns

78 makeitstop  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 3:08:48pm

re: #68 Kragar

The Log Cabin Republicans should change their name to the Battered Spouse Republicans

Log Cabin Republicans Applaud Republican Party Debate Over Gay Issues Despite 'Abysmal' Results

They live under the delusion that someday their party will love them as much as they love it.

I'll never understand it.

79 blueraven  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 3:09:43pm

re: #49 Charles

Why is Paul Ryan sad?

Image: x910.jpg

Because he is wearing John McCain's shirt from 2008?

80 uncah91  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 3:10:41pm

re: #76 Sionainn

I just want to take a moment to thank all the male lizards who so staunchly defend the rights of women. You guys are the best!

Defending the rights of my mother, sister, wife, daughters, co-workers, friends, and frankly, my fellow human travelers on this hunk of rock is really not a burden.

Women's rights are really just human rights. They come for your uterus, they'll be after my balls next.

81 Lidane  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 3:11:55pm

re: #76 Sionainn

I just want to take a moment to thank all the male lizards who so staunchly defend the rights of women. You guys are the best!

Seconded. Legitimately and forcibly.

82 CuriousLurker  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 3:14:12pm

re: #76 Sionainn

I just want to take a moment to thank all the male lizards who so staunchly defend the rights of women. You guys are the best!

Ditto.

83 allegro  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 3:15:13pm

re: #60 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne

I was looking at this as a statistical question. Does stress prevent implantation? No: clearly implantation can occur in women under stress. Can stress affect the percentage of fertilized eggs that actually implant? In the abstract, it seems possible, but I don't know, and neither do you.

Here's the thing... the entire argument is bullshit on every level. Giving it cover by asking "but what if they have a point?" is just shoveling more bullshit on top by legitimizing the indefensible.

It doesn't matter how a women gets pregnant or under what circumstances. She has the legal and moral right to choose whether to continue with the pregnancy or not for whatever reasons are important to her. Period. I'm sick of seeing this Overton Window move so far that we are now appearing to assume that abortion is soon to be made illegal - or already has been - and now we're just arguing over the details of who may be blessed with choice and under what circumstances.

Yeah, I'm testy. I thought his was settled in 1972 after decades of battling over the bleeding bodies of women.

84 makeitstop  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 3:16:34pm

re: #76 Sionainn

I just want to take a moment to thank all the male lizards who so staunchly defend the rights of women. You guys are the best!

Some wingnut on Facebook actually asked 'Why do you care? You're not a woman!' a few days ago.

Why do I care?? The Stupid is even more potent than previously estimated.

85 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 3:16:54pm

re: #70 ggt

The body was designed for ONE thing --DNA SURVIVAL.

That means it is programmed to do three things --EAT, REPRODUCE AND LEARN.

REPRODUCTION MEANS SEX, CONCEPTION, IMPLANTATION, PREGNANCY AND BIRTH.

DNA Survival is the morality that exists in our world --God or no God.

I don't know if I'd go so far as to call it "morality", but otherwise I'm largely in agreement with what you're written here. Are you under the impression that I wouldn't be?

86 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 3:18:08pm
87 MittDoesNotCompute  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 3:18:40pm

re: #66 ggt

Questions regarding Voter ID laws:

(1) Are State Issued Photo ID's free of cost? Can a person be required to pay to vote?

(2) Have people been given enough time to acquire documents they need to get an Photo ID?

(3) Are issuing agencies being overtly strict in accepting documents. --I ask this question becaue: When my parents (ages 81 and 79 -married 48 years) tried to get their Illinois Photo ID, it took three trips and an appeal to the Manager of the facility. It was free of charge. My parents didn't not have their SS cards. They had proof of SS --letters, benefits and my father had his Army ID from the 1940's and his discharge papers. "White, college educated, well dress and articulate" --and I still had to appeal to the manager. So, if a person not fitting "the profile" doesn't have the appropriate documents, and doesn't have the hutzpah to ask for a manager are they going to be denied their right to vote?

Yeah, pretty much, because that's just the way today's TPGOP likes it.

88 Kragar  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 3:19:34pm

re: #86 wrenchwench

[Embedded content]

I know if I was the husband, father, brother or boyfriend of a rape victim, those meetings would go over well.

89 MittDoesNotCompute  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 3:20:13pm

re: #74 Kragar

"We fell off the GOP platform. We're just so clumsy."

Ouch, that's gonna leave a mark...or twelve.

90 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 3:20:58pm

re: #88 Kragar

I know if I was the husband, father, brother or boyfriend of a rape victim, those meetings would go over well.

Need to change some laws.

91 Lidane  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 3:21:05pm

re: #86 wrenchwench

Because when a woman's been raped and she's raising a child conceived in rape, what she really wants is for her attacker to visit her.

What the actual fuck?

92 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 3:22:00pm

re: #91 Lidane

Because when a woman's been raped and she's raising a child conceived in rape, what she really wants is for her attacker to visit her.

What the actual fuck?

If the laws aren't changed: more abortions. Or suicides, who knows.

93 Kragar  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 3:24:07pm

Remember fellas; If your wife or girlfriend gets raped, its a blessing to raise her rapist's child as yours.

94 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 3:24:14pm

re: #46 Varek Raith

[Link: www.nhc.noaa.gov...]
Clearly a sign.
Clearly.

Varek is that you? Or SJ?

Image: CloudFace.jpg

Image: 0-800.jpg

95 Sionainn  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 3:25:45pm

re: #86 wrenchwench

[Embedded content]

That's reprehensible!

96 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 3:26:13pm

re: #83 allegro

Here's the thing... the entire argument is bullshit on every level. Giving it cover by asking "but what if they have a point?" is just shoveling more bullshit on top by legitimizing the indefensible.

It doesn't matter how a women gets pregnant or under what circumstances. She has the legal and moral right to choose whether to continue with the pregnancy or not for whatever reasons are important to her. Period. I'm sick of seeing this Overton Window move so far that we are now appearing to assume that abortion is soon to be made illegal - or already has been - and now we're just arguing over the details of who may be blessed with choice and under what circumstances.

Yeah, I'm testy. I thought his was settled in 1972 after decades of battling over the bleeding bodies of women.

I'm not trying to "give anything cover". But I do like to try to approach questions from a factual basis. Your original statement that fertilization == pregnancy was non-factual. In fact, the conflation of the two has been used in the past by anti-abortion purists to argue against methods of birth control that work by preventing implantation. I'm sure you wouldn't agree with their conclusion.

97 Mattand  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 3:28:47pm

re: #76 Sionainn

I just want to take a moment to thank all the male lizards who so staunchly defend the rights of women. You guys are the best!

The more I learn about how fucked up conservatives and the GOP are on this issue, the more apparent it becomes to fight it.

These morons want to force their misogynistic way of thinking on the whole country. Unacceptable and un-American by any measure.

98 Sionainn  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 3:29:46pm

re: #96 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne

I'm not trying to "give anything cover". But I do like to try to approach questions from a factual basis. Your original statement that fertilization == pregnancy was non-factual. In fact, the conflation of the two has been used in the past by anti-abortion purists to argue against methods of birth control that work by preventing implantation. I'm sure you wouldn't agree with their conclusion.

Over the past few days, there have been numerous statements put out by physicians who have stated unequivocally that biologically, women who are raped have the exact same chance of conceiving if they are ovulating at the time of the rape as any other woman. So, the answer is no, there is nothing different about the "stress" of rape that would change the chances of fertilization or implantation.

99 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 3:30:04pm
Pocho Ocho best definitions in the new ‘Republican Dictionary’

by DANILO GUEBSTER on August 22, 2012 in El Now, Pocho Ocho

Hoping to capitalize on the enormous groundswell of support they’ve generated with their new definitions of life, marriage and assault weapons, the GOP braintrust is planning to premiere a Republican Dictionary at next week’s convention in Tampa, FLA.

We got a brief peek at a draft (the “rape” definition was leaked Monday); check out the Pocho Ocho best definitions:

8. Rape: When a man loves a woman
7. Voting: What white people get to do
6. Minorities: Three-fifths of a person
5. Budget Cuts: Shutting down schools, libraries, and police departments

[...]

100 MittDoesNotCompute  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 3:30:32pm

re: #72 Charles Johnson

I think I know why Paul Ryan is so sad.

Image: ZZ6DF4527B.jpg

Watch it now, Charles, lest D_F says that you are still acting a "bit DERPy"...

///

101 ReamWorks SKG  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 3:31:49pm

I thought Akins was an idiot, but now that Kirk Cameron has endorsed him, I've changed my mind!

:-)

102 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 3:32:37pm

re: #86 wrenchwench

WTF? How is that even possible? My first reaction was "sure come on down the police are waiting for ya" but of course it's not that simple. Seriously I'm not at all sure I could refrain from violence if I got in the same room with the rapist of my wife or anyone in my family or close circle of friends. I suppose my respect for the law would prevail but that's not a test I'd want to take.

103 Lidane  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 3:32:44pm

re: #93 Kragar

Remember fellas; If your wife or girlfriend gets raped, its a blessing to raise her rapist's child as yours.

And to allow her rapist to visit. You know, since kids need to see their dads.

104 uncah91  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 3:33:24pm

re: #96 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne

I'm not trying to "give anything cover". But I do like to try to approach questions from a factual basis. Your original statement that fertilization == pregnancy was non-factual. In fact, the conflation of the two has been used in the past by anti-abortion purists to argue against methods of birth control that work by preventing implantation. I'm sure you wouldn't agree with their conclusion.

Here is the thing. Even if rape involving severe physical trauma reduced conception rates by some non-negligible amount, it would still be a bullshit argument for the anti-abortion folks to make. Pregnancies still occur from rape involving physical trauma, and there is plenty of empirical evidence to back that up, and plenty of rapes involve no physical trauma at all.

The whole argument is so sideways that you can't find any nuggets of "sense" in it. It's just completely wrong.

105 Someone Please Beam Me Up!  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 3:35:00pm

re: #104 uncah91

Pregnancies still occur from rape involving trauma, and their is plenty of empirical evidence to back that up, and plenty of rapes involve no trauma at all.

Physical trauma, I'm sure you mean.

106 MittDoesNotCompute  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 3:37:40pm

re: #93 Kragar

Remember fellas; If your wife or girlfriend gets raped, its a blessing to raise her rapist's child as yours.

And another blessing stacked on top to have him sue the both of you for parental rights in jurisdictions where rapists' parental rights aren't automatically severed as a result of that crime.

107 uncah91  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 3:37:52pm

re: #105 Someone Please Beam Me Up!

Physical trauma, I'm sure you mean.

Yes, completely correct. I edited to include what I actually meant.

108 Gus  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 3:41:40pm

re: #72 Charles Johnson

I think I know why Paul Ryan is so sad.

Image: ZZ6DF4527B.jpg

Don't look now but I think there's a fly on his nose.

109 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 3:41:48pm

re: #98 Sionainn

Over the past few days, there have been numerous statements put out by physicians who have stated unequivocally that biologically, women who are raped have the exact same chance of conceiving if they are ovulating at the time of the rape as any other woman. So, the answer is no, there is nothing different about the "stress" of rape that would change the chances of fertilization or implantation.

Okay, I missed that. I saw statements that there was no mechanism that would prevent pregnancy in cases of rape, but somehow missed the "exact same chance" statement. However, I just went googling around and found this: Experts: Rape Does Not Lower Odds Of Pregnancy (on a Fox station, of all places).

My apologies.

110 Gus  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 3:43:06pm

Meet the 21st GOP platform wimmins!

SALUTE TO MANDATORY ULTRASOUNDS. The GOP officially praises states’ “informed consent” laws that force women to undergo unnecessary procedures, require waiting periods and endure other measures meant to discourage them from getting an abortion. One such law receiving a “salute” was crafted by committee head McDonnell, who passed a notorious mandatory ultrasound requirement after he signed an unsuccessful bill to require an even more invasive transvaginal probe ultrasound during an abortion consultation.

111 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 3:43:41pm

re: #104 uncah91

Here is the thing. Even if rape involving severe physical trauma reduced conception rates by some non-negligible amount, it would still be a bullshit argument for the anti-abortion folks to make. Pregnancies still occur from rape involving physical trauma, and there is plenty of empirical evidence to back that up, and plenty of rapes involve no physical trauma at all.

The whole argument is so sideways that you can't find any nuggets of "sense" in it. It's just completely wrong.

I agree with all of this. That's an argument I was never making nor intended to make.

112 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 3:43:43pm

I think the "real rape doesn't cause pregnancies," or "rape babies are a blessing," is just an attempt to justify the morally indefensible.

113 Kragar  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 3:47:45pm

Informed consent: From the party that doesn't accept scientific evidence about global warming, evolution, vaccines, and a host of other issues.

114 Lidane  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 3:50:25pm

The GOP's misogyny isn't just limited to the men in the party, either:

Senate Candidate Linda Lingle Vetoed A Bill Requiring Hospitals To Provide Rape Victims Contraception

As part of her effort to frame herself as a moderate, Hawaii’s Republican candidate for senate, former Gov. Linda Lingle, ran as far as possible from Rep. Todd Akin’s (R-MO) “legitimate rape” comments this weekend, calling his assertion that women can’t get pregnant from rape “deplorable.”

But Lingle’s own record is not dissimilar from Akin’s when it comes to helping rape victims prevent pregnancy. When she was Governor of Hawaii, Lingle vetoed a bill that would have required hospitals to provide emergency contraception to rape victims who wanted it, citing hospitals with religious objections. She even boasts about the veto on her website.

You know, because helping prevent a pregnancy caused by rape is bad. Or something.

115 allegro  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 3:50:32pm

re: #113 Kragar

Informed consent: From the party that doesn't accept scientific evidence about global warming, evolution, vaccines, and a host of other issues.

If they were so concerned about our being informed, why won't they release their taxes?

116 Mattand  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 3:55:24pm
117 jaunte  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 3:57:20pm

FOX NEWS:

"...The GOP is turning what some see as a presidential slight aimed at business owners and entrepreneurs into a theme for a night of the Republican National Convention next week, titling Tuesday night’s session “We Built This!”
[Link: politics.blogs.foxnews.com...]

Image: WeBuiltThis.jpg

Be sure to pass this convention-themed wand around where it will do the most good.

118 Gus  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 3:58:25pm
119 uncah91  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 4:02:55pm

re: #112 Mostly sane, most of the time.

I think the "real rape doesn't cause pregnancies," or "rape babies are a blessing," is just an attempt to justify the morally indefensible.

I think you have to split those two up.

"Rape babies are a blessing" is the logical conclusion to reach if you have a firm religious conviction that the soul begins at conception.

"Real rape doesn't cause pregnancies" is an attempt wiggle out of the theological "problem of evil".

120 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 4:03:41pm

Grats to Lawhawk for an excellent post.

There is no way the GOP can easily hide from the fact that Akin is the norm of the party-line and not some outlier. The etch-e-sketch fails here.

121 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 4:04:59pm

re: #119 uncah91

I think you have to split those two up.

"Rape babies are a blessing" is the logical conclusion to reach if you have a firm religious conviction that the soul begins at conception.

"Real rape doesn't cause pregnancies" is an attempt wiggle out of the theological "problem of evil".

I think that is exactly the "thought" process.

It also allows the judgemental ones to argue that the evil temptress woman had it coming - or really liked it - or any of the other sickening things that such folks say.

122 uncah91  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 4:12:43pm

re: #121 Zionist Lord of Remulak

I think that is exactly the "thought" process.

It also allows the judgemental ones to argue that the evil temptress woman had it coming - or really liked it - or any of the other sickening things that such folks say.

Yes I agree with that, but I also have some sympathy for people who have a firm conviction that conception=soul. If you truly believe that, it creates some real moral changes when living in the modern world. The problem is that science and common sense don't support this belief. If they think about it too long, it must create some Escher like loops in their thought processes.

123 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 4:14:46pm

re: #84 makeitstop

Some wingnut on Facebook actually asked 'Why do you care? You're not a woman!' a few days ago.

Why do I care?? The Stupid is even more potent than previously estimated.

No, I just get tired of people trying to find meaning in sex and making babies that nature doesn't recognize. It's all about survival, nothing more, nothing less.

IMHO, God and Nature are part of the same whole. So, I don't get the whack point of view.

124 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 4:17:09pm

re: #97 Mattand

The more I learn about how fucked up conservatives and the GOP are on this issue, the more apparent it becomes to fight it.

These morons want to force their misogynistic way of thinking on the whole country. Unacceptable and un-American by any measure.

What action are you going to take?

125 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 4:19:12pm

re: #112 Mostly sane, most of the time.

I think the "real rape doesn't cause pregnancies," or "rape babies are a blessing," is just an attempt to justify the morally indefensible.

trying to satisfy their own consciouses.

126 RadicalModerate  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 4:26:02pm

re: #117 jaunte

FOX NEWS:

Image: WeBuiltThis.jpg

Be sure to pass this convention-themed wand around where it will do the most good.

What's rich is that the building that they will be making this speech in had a majority of its funding come via taxpayer expense.

[Link: www.rawstory.com...]

The Republican National Committee (RNC) announced this week that it would craft its convention theme around President Barack Obama’s “You didn’t build that” remark — which was taken out of context to suggest that business owners “didn’t build” their businesses — and the party will unveil that message in an arena that was mostly built with government funds.

The Daily Dolt noted on Wednesday that part of the GOP message may be undermined by the fact that the Tampa Bay Times Forum arena — where the convention is being held — was financed with $86 million in public money.
[...]

127 Lidane  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 4:46:59pm

Mama said knock you out:

128 Mattand  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 5:14:32pm

re: #124 ggt

What action are you going to take?

I'm still working that one out.

Not voting Republican, obviously, but that's not exactly a stretch for me. I'm thinking of submitting an editorial to the local papers.

Donate to Planned Parenthood and Obama's campaign.

Might also be time to volunteer for Obama. I have my opinions, but I've never gotten directly involved politically. Given the stakes involved if Romney wins, it might be time to change that.

129 Decatur Deb  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 6:44:11pm

re: #128 Mattand

[Link: my.barackobama.com...]

130 Buck  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 8:23:06pm

“forcible rape” is not a nonsensical category. It was not made up by Akin or Ryan. It is right out of the FBI Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) Program.

It is a term used to exclude statutory rape (which it seems some people think is rape without force) and other sex offenses.

However it is defined as "the carnal knowledge of a female forcibly and against her will. Attempts or assaults to commit rape by force or threat of force are also included."

The term already exists and has existed for many years.

So it is the FBI that would use that term when they report:

There were an estimated at 84,767 forcible rapes reported to law enforcement in 2010. This estimate was 5.0 percent lower than the 2009 estimate and 10.3 percent and 6.7 percent lower than the 2006 and 2001 estimates, respectively.
The rate of forcible rapes in 2010 was estimated at 54.2 per 100,000 female inhabitants.
Rapes by force comprised 93.0 percent of reported rape offenses in 2010, and attempts or assaults to commit rape accounted for 7.0 percent of reported rapes.

131 AK-47%  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 10:14:20pm

re: #112 Mostly sane, most of the time.

I think the "real rape doesn't cause pregnancies," or "rape babies are a blessing," is just an attempt to justify the morally indefensible.

They are moral absolutists, and rather than think through the logical consequences of their "all abortions are wrong" stance, they come up with nonsensical arguments to justify their unyielding position.

132 ozbloke  Wed, Aug 22, 2012 11:49:27pm

re: #130 Buck

“forcible rape” is not a nonsensical category. It was not made up by Akin or Ryan. It is right out of the FBI Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) Program.

It is a term used to exclude statutory rape (which it seems some people think is rape without force) and other sex offenses.

However it is defined as "the carnal knowledge of a female forcibly and against her will. Attempts or assaults to commit rape by force or threat of force are also included."

The term already exists and has existed for many years.

So it is the FBI that would use that term when they report:

Wasn't Todd Akin's words 'legitimate Rape'.

Which infers that those who become pregnant must not have been legitimately raped.

133 AK-47%  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 12:01:32am

there is physical force, threat of force, or simply taking undue advantage of a social/professional advantage.

and in many of these cases, the victim is hesitant to report the incident or press charges.

134 Obdicut  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 7:25:49am

re: #130 Buck

This is a complete reversal of your previous position, which was that all rape was forcible and that the GOP was not attempting any change in policy by using such language.

Does it bother you at all to engage in such obvious hypocrisy?

135 labman57  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 9:11:47am

Todd Akin has become the poster child for the socially-regressive, misogynistic policy proposals emanating from House Republicans and GOP-controlled state legislatures during the past two years.
Akin's remarks were a foreseeable culmination of the scientific and medical illiteracy, religiously dogmatic beliefs, and chauvinistic attitudes that have dominated Republican Party politics since the 2010 mid-term elections.

The unsuccessful efforts of the GOP leadership to excise the embarrassing blemish of the Akin campaign would not have eradicated the malignant growth of hyper-conservatism which lays beneath the surface of the modern Republican Party.

136 Buck  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 12:59:24pm

re: #134 Obdicut

This is a complete reversal of your previous position, which was that all rape was forcible and that the GOP was not attempting any change in policy by using such language.

Does it bother you at all to engage in such obvious hypocrisy?

MY position is STILL that there is no attempt to change the definition. They are using the exact phrase that has been in use for years. There is no change. How is that hypocrisy?

137 Buck  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 1:00:54pm

re: #132 ozbloke

Wasn't Todd Akin's words 'legitimate Rape'.

Which infers that those who become pregnant must not have been legitimately raped.

Yes but the #0 is saying that somehow Akin and Ryan are introducing a new phrase to describe rape. They are in fact using the FBI definition that has been used by lawmakers for years.

138 lawhawk  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 1:33:12pm

re: #130 Buck

Even if you want to claim that forcible rape is not a new category, Ryan, Akin and GOPers are trying to use that to restrict access to abortion, leaving statutory rape victims out of luck. The FBI statistic is meant to separate out cases of statutory rape, but that's not what Akin was talking about.

He was talking about legitimate rape, and then turned it towards forcible rape, but the whole point of the forcible rape discussion was that he's trying to limit access to abortions, even in cases of rape. Therefore, someone who was the victim of statutory rape would not be able to get an abortion, and someone who was forcibly raped would have to prove that.

Mind you that proof of being forcibly raped is what exactly? Conviction in a court of law (where most criminal cases take more than 9 months from charges to conviction)? From when charges are filed? Or what about a case where the woman was raped but declines to help prosecutors make the case?

It's a bogus construct designed to target women.


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