USADA to Strip Lance Armstrong of 7 Tour De France Titles

Bad news for cycling fans
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Lance Armstrong dropped his fight against doping charges tonight:

Lance Armstrong called it quits late Thursday in his battle to end an investigation by the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency, a move that will most likely mean a lifetime ban for the seven-time Tour de France champion.

And an AP breaking news alert :

Breaking (10:45PM EDT): USADA to strip Lance Armstrong of 7 Tour de France titles, ban him from cycling for life.

UPDATE at 8/23/12 8:51:06 pm

Lance Armstrong’s official statement:

AUSTIN, Texas - August 23rd, 2012 - There comes a point in every man’s life when he has to say, “Enough is enough.” For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in winning my seven Tours since 1999. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a two-year federal criminal investigation followed by Travis Tygart’s unconstitutional witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for our foundation and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense.

I had hoped that a federal court would stop USADA’s charade. Although the court was sympathetic to my concerns and recognized the many improprieties and deficiencies in USADA’s motives, its conduct, and its process, the court ultimately decided that it could not intervene.

If I thought for one moment that by participating in USADA’s process, I could confront these allegations in a fair setting and – once and for all – put these charges to rest, I would jump at the chance. But I refuse to participate in a process that is so one-sided and unfair. Regardless of what Travis Tygart says, there is zero physical evidence to support his outlandish and heinous claims. The only physical evidence here is the hundreds of controls I have passed with flying colors. I made myself available around the clock and around the world. In-competition. Out of competition. Blood. Urine. Whatever they asked for I provided. What is the point of all this testing if, in the end, USADA will not stand by it?

From the beginning, however, this investigation has not been about learning the truth or cleaning up cycling, but about punishing me at all costs. I am a retired cyclist, yet USADA has lodged charges over 17 years old despite its own 8-year limitation. As respected organizations such as UCI and USA Cycling have made clear, USADA lacks jurisdiction even to bring these charges. The international bodies governing cycling have ordered USADA to stop, have given notice that no one should participate in USADA’s improper proceedings, and have made it clear the pronouncements by USADA that it has banned people for life or stripped them of their accomplishments are made without authority. And as many others, including USADA’s own arbitrators, have found, there is nothing even remotely fair about its process. USADA has broken the law, turned its back on its own rules, and stiff-armed those who have tried to persuade USADA to honor its obligations. At every turn, USADA has played the role of a bully, threatening everyone in its way and challenging the good faith of anyone who questions its motives or its methods, all at U.S. taxpayers’ expense. For the last two months, USADA has endlessly repeated the mantra that there should be a single set of rules, applicable to all, but they have arrogantly refused to practice what they preach. On top of all that, USADA has allegedly made deals with other riders that circumvent their own rules as long as they said I cheated. Many of those riders continue to race today.

The bottom line is I played by the rules that were put in place by the UCI, WADA and USADA when I raced. The idea that athletes can be convicted today without positive A and B samples, under the same rules and procedures that apply to athletes with positive tests, perverts the system and creates a process where any begrudged ex-teammate can open a USADA case out of spite or for personal gain or a cheating cyclist can cut a sweetheart deal for themselves. It’s an unfair approach, applied selectively, in opposition to all the rules. It’s just not right.

USADA cannot assert control of a professional international sport and attempt to strip my seven Tour de France titles. I know who won those seven Tours, my teammates know who won those seven Tours, and everyone I competed against knows who won those seven Tours. We all raced together. For three weeks over the same roads, the same mountains, and against all the weather and elements that we had to confront. There were no shortcuts, there was no special treatment. The same courses, the same rules. The toughest event in the world where the strongest man wins. Nobody can ever change that. Especially not Travis Tygart.

Today I turn the page. I will no longer address this issue, regardless of the circumstances. I will commit myself to the work I began before ever winning a single Tour de France title: serving people and families affected by cancer, especially those in underserved communities. This October, my Foundation will celebrate 15 years of service to cancer survivors and the milestone of raising nearly $500 million. We have a lot of work to do and I’m looking forward to an end to this pointless distraction. I have a responsibility to all those who have stepped forward to devote their time and energy to the cancer cause. I will not stop fighting for that mission. Going forward, I am going to devote myself to raising my five beautiful (and energetic) kids, fighting cancer, and attempting to be the fittest 40-year old on the planet.

Jump to bottom

697 comments

1 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:16:20pm

It's OK. I hate America, too.
//you people suck

2 The Mountain That Blogs  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:16:37pm

Great news for all the runners up who were also doping.

3 brennant  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:17:09pm

Now if the could catch all of the doping speed-walkers.

4 compound_Idaho  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:17:44pm

Lance came up on the add banner for the page!

5 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:17:58pm

I am using HGH running this computer. I hope Charles doesn't delete my post. HAR!!

6 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:19:18pm

FREEDOM FRIES!!

7 freetoken  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:19:44pm

Oh, those mysterious "substances".

It's as if their actual names are naughty words or something.

8 HappyWarrior  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:20:48pm

Man this guy fell hard. Goes from probably one of the most admired athletes in the country not to mention an inspirational tale because of his cancer survival to this. I never really followed him in the Tour De France because cycling isn't my kind of sport but he was just so well liked.

9 Gus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:20:53pm

Sad really but I have to admit, Lance Armstrong always kind of put me off. I just couldn't put my finger on it.

10 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:21:04pm

So the ones who always hated him for winning are the ones who win. Almost as big a joke as baseball with it's juicers.

11 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:21:13pm

re: #7 freetoken

Oh, those mysterious "substances".

It's as if their actual names are naughty words or something.

I had my money on Bobby Testosterone.

12 Gus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:21:39pm

Make that put me off rather than set me off.

13 compound_Idaho  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:24:12pm

re: #9 Gus

Sad really but I have to admit, Lance Armstrong always kind of set me off. I just couldn't put my finger on it.

I'll tell you.

Michelob Ultra. Why does a guy that burns 10,000+ calories per workout drink/advertise shitty beer.

14 Gus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:25:35pm

re: #13 compound_Idaho

I'll tell you.

Michelob Ultra. Why does a guy that burns 10,000+ calories per workout drink/advertise shitty beer.

Does this mean he also has to return all of that endorsement income?

//

15 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:25:45pm

re: #6 Cannadian Club Akbar

The French were all pissy about him winning all the time.
So, yeah.

16 SpaceJesus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:25:59pm

I don't follow this very much, but Lance never once tested positive...so uh..what is the deal here?

17 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:26:43pm

re: #8 HappyWarrior

Man this guy fell hard. Goes from probably one of the most admired athletes in the country not to mention an inspirational tale because of his cancer survival to this. I never really followed him in the Tour De France because cycling isn't my kind of sport but he was just so well liked.

He lost me when he dumped Cheryl Crow. Then jumped on a young un & had kids.

Sorry.

18 compound_Idaho  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:27:04pm

re: #14 Gus

Does this mean he also has to return all of that endorsement income?

//

Just the low carb. endorsements.

19 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:27:42pm

re: #16 SpaceJesus

I don't follow this very much, but Lance never once tested positive...so uh..what is the deal here?

Yeah. Why did he fold?

20 Gus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:27:46pm
21 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:28:44pm

re: #20 Gus

[Embedded content]

He folded. That's the mystery. Give up the Tour de France? why

22 Sionainn  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:28:45pm

re: #20 Gus

[Embedded content]

What emails?

23 Gus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:29:23pm

re: #22 Sionainn

What emails?

Got me. I haven't been following this story.

24 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:29:38pm

Jesus Christo, look away (for a bit, grant you) and 427 new tweets? There's a problem here.

25 HappyWarrior  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:29:50pm

re: #17 Stanley Sea

He lost me when he dumped Cheryl Crow. Then jumped on a young un & had kids.

Sorry.

Yeah that sucked. Always liked her.

26 Lidane  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:30:24pm

I've never followed cycling but I can guarantee that all the bike shops here in Austin are going to be filled with a lot of opinionated folks tomorrow.

27 Sionainn  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:30:28pm

How does the USADA figure they have the power to vacate his Tour titles?

28 Lidane  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:30:56pm

re: #27 Sionainn

How does the USADA figure they have the power to vacate his Tour titles?

Because of reasons, that's why.

29 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:30:57pm

re: #26 Lidane

I've never followed cycling but I can guarantee that all the bike shops here in Austin are going to be filled with a lot of opinionated folks tomorrow.

Wrenchy will be interesting tomorrow, I hope.

30 Sionainn  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:31:17pm

re: #28 Lidane

Because of reasons, that's why.

Because they said so?

31 Gus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:31:45pm

Lance Armstrong won't fight charges

...

Included in USADA's evidence were emails written by Armstrong's former U.S. Postal Service teammate Floyd Landis, who was stripped of his 2006 Tour de France title after a positive drug test. Landis' emails to a USA Cycling official detailed allegations of a complex doping program on the team.

USADA also said it had 10 former Armstrong teammates ready to testify against him. Other than suggesting they include Landis and Tyler Hamilton, both of whom have admitted to doping offenses, the agency has refused to say who they are or specifically what they would say.

"There is zero physical evidence to support (the) outlandish and heinous claims. The only physical evidence here is the hundreds of (doping) controls I have passed with flying colors," Armstrong said.

...

32 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:31:55pm

Lie lie deny. Don't fold. wtf

Gah, I so don't care. I WANT MITTS TAX RETURNS . END IT NOW.

33 Gus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:32:43pm

So basically it was email and testimony. Otherwise he passed all of the "doping controls."

34 Lidane  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:33:19pm

re: #30 Sionainn

Because they said so?

Pretty much, yeah. I don't see how an American agency has the power to decide who won the Tour de France either.

35 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:33:47pm

re: #33 Gus

So basically it was email and testimony. Otherwise he passed all of the "doping controls."

re: #33 Gus

So basically it was email and testimony. Otherwise he passed all of the "doping controls."

It was probably a well oiled system. Floyd Landis was not going to go down alone.

If he folded, well.

36 compound_Idaho  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:34:34pm

re: #32 Stanley Sea

Lie lie deny. Don't fold. wtf

Gah, I so don't care. I WANT MITTS TAX RETURNS . END IT NOW.

Mitt have never tested positive either.

37 Sionainn  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:34:41pm

Off to sleep. Have a good evening, all.

38 sagehen  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:34:46pm

re: #9 Gus

Sad really but I have to admit, Lance Armstrong always kind of put me off. I just couldn't put my finger on it.

what bothered me about him? His wife and girlfriends look like clones

karen armstrong
Image: karmstrong.jpg

sheryl crow
Image: MV5BMTk0Mjg0NDIwMV5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwMzcyMTQzMg@@._V1._SY314_CR3,0,214,314_.jpg

tori burch
Image: ToryBurch.jpg

the new one
Image: Hansen220x330.jpg

39 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:34:51pm

Me too

40 Varek Raith  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:35:21pm

Smells like BS to me.
He passed all these tests, no?
WTF.

41 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:36:08pm

re: #36 compound_Idaho

Mitt have never tested positive either.

Mitt's never even FINISHED the Tour de France.

42 Gus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:36:24pm

Keep in mind though that this was Lance Armstrong's decision. He could have fought these charges.

43 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:36:34pm

re: #36 compound_Idaho

Mitt have never tested positive either.

THAT WE KNOW. His tests are retroactively protected under his retirement package of 2004. oops

44 SpaceJesus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:36:55pm

Get those emails and testimony together and present it someplace before taking his titles away.

45 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:37:02pm

While I think Lance doped I'm left wondering how exactly USADA arrogates themselves to the position of stripping a rider of prizes that USADA has never been in the position of awarding. USADA doesn't organize, put on or officiate the TDF, that's all Amaury Sport Organization and Union Cycliste Internationale.

46 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:37:13pm

USADA seems to have said they'll find him guilty no matter what reality is so he may just be at the point of "why bother?". Shrug. He won. End of story for me.

Now Floyd, who was supposedly in on this super secret and sophisticated doping program got caught how? Using a simple highly unsophisticated skin patch of testosterone. Uh, yeah, so very believable about that super secret squirrel program there, dude.

47 Varek Raith  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:37:25pm

re: #42 Gus

Keep in mind though that this was Lance Armstrong's decision. He could have fought these charges.

You know, I think he's just tired of putting up with this shit.
I've seen no proof he 'doped'.

48 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:37:38pm

re: #38 sagehen

what bothered me about him? His wife and girlfriends look like clones

karen armstrong
Image: karmstrong.jpg

sheryl crow
Image: MV5BMTk0Mjg0NDIwMV5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwMzcyMTQzMg@@._V1._SY314_CR3,0,214,314_.jpg

tori burch
Image: ToryBurch.jpg

the new one
Image: Hansen220x330.jpg

I forgot about his Tory Burch fling.

49 Mattand  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:37:50pm

re: #34 Lidane

Pretty much, yeah. I don't see how an American agency has the power to decide who won the Tour de France either.

Maybe the Tour is looking for any excuse to take him down. I didn't even know theere was an federal agency dedicated to ferreting out doping.

50 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:39:05pm

re: #44 SpaceJesus

re: #45 goddamnedfrank

But when he folds, he folds. Correct?

51 mythicknight  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:39:50pm

This is sensationalized. The USADA can't do anything about Lance's titles. They can -recommend- he be stripped of them, but the international bodies won't. He just got tired of the witchhunt they've been doing for years against him.

52 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:40:02pm

Honest question from someone who does not give any measurable fraction of a flying fuck for any competitive sports of any kind: what difference does it make if an athlete uses "performance-enhancing drugs"? As far as I can see, all of the so-called "enhancements" come at a price of significant detriment to long-term health. So if one guy wants to shave 10 or 15 years off his health and longevity, who cares? "Fairness" can't be the issue, as these substances are equally available to everyone who'd ever want to use them. Why are there Congressional investigations into shit like this? WHO GIVES A SHIT, seriously? And why?

Meanwhile, I'm pretty sure that the Romney campaign is overjoyed at this breaking "news".

53 Mattand  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:40:06pm

In other sports news, Phils win in 11. They're now in 3rd place.

20 games out of 1st and 10 in the wild card, but hey! It's better than last.

54 SpaceJesus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:40:12pm

re: #50 Stanley Sea

no idea how the usda works on this

55 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:40:49pm

re: #51 mythicknight

This is sensationalized. The USADA can't do anything about Lance's titles. They can -recommend- he be stripped of them, but the international bodies won't. He just got tired of the witchhunt they've been doing for years against him.

OK, then this is ah, not a biggie. If he loses the Tour de France, it's a biggie. If he doesn't?

56 Robert O.  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:41:40pm

Wow.... I admit I don't follow cycling, but for what it is worth, Lance Armstrong is to cycling what (say) Pele is to soccer. He is the absolute pinnacle of the sport and is known and admired around the world. I understand he has "never" failed a test, but it is also being rumored that he did fail tests but they were brushed aside.

To say I am shocked is an understatement.

57 compound_Idaho  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:42:31pm

re: #41 SanFranciscoZionist

Mitt's never even FINISHED the Tour de France.

Try filing my tax returns. I run a two man shop and dabble in real estate. 50+ pages. I feel like I've just completed an Alps hill climb. (with a fork in my eye)

58 Varek Raith  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:43:21pm

Rumors and emails.
PROOF!
/Annoyed

59 mythicknight  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:44:21pm

By the way, this is Lance's full statement on the matter. It's worth the read.

60 Mattand  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:44:25pm

re: #57 compound_Idaho

Try filing my tax returns. I run a two man shop and dabble in real estate. 50+ pages. I feel like I've just completed an Alps hill climb. (with a fork in my eye)

Is it a fancy fork?

61 Gus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:44:47pm

CONTROVERSIAL world cycling superstar Lance Armstrong is to be sensationally stripped of his seven Tour de France titles.

...

Armstrong maintained USADA does not have the authority to strip him of his Tour titles.

"From the beginning... this investigation has not been about learning the truth or cleaning up cycling, but about punishing me at all costs," Armstrong said.

"I am a retired cyclist, yet USADA has lodged charges over 17 years old despite its own 8-year limitation.

"USADA cannot assert control of a professional international sport and attempt to strip my seven Tour de France titles.

...

62 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:45:06pm

re: #50 Stanley Sea

re: #45 goddamnedfrank

But when he folds, he folds. Correct?

I really don't know. Could be the equivalent of an Alford plea, no admission of guilt just an acknowledgement that he's likely to be found guilty. It's likely he'll continue to maintain he been railroaded by a bunch of hacks.

63 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:46:01pm

re: #56 Robert O.

Wow.... I admit I don't follow cycling, but for what it is worth, Lance Armstrong is to cycling what (say) Pele is to soccer. He is the absolute pinnacle of the sport and is known and admired around the world. I understand he has "never" failed a test, but it is also being rumored that he did fail tests but they were brushed aside.
To say I am shocked is an understatement.

He had a super human comeback, better than the skinny like Mark McGuire. (Testicular Cancer, chemo & radiation?) These dudes have the $ for the best doctors. I do not ever believe ANY of these dudes are clean. It's the best that are able to cover it up the best.

Just like Mitt and all the others who can pay minimal taxes to their government.

Scam if you can! American Way!

64 compound_Idaho  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:46:52pm

re: #60 Mattand

Is it a fancy fork?

pitch fork.

65 Varek Raith  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:47:12pm
66 engineer cat  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:47:49pm

maybe i have been staring at the screen too long today, since i just tried to access [Link: www.gogol.com,...] which is not a 19th century literary search engine tending toward the surreal, altho it might be a nice domain for steampunks...

67 Gus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:48:43pm

500

68 engineer cat  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:49:04pm

re: #61 Gus

CONTROVERSIAL world cycling superstar Lance Armstrong is to be sensationally stripped of his seven Tour de France titles.

(sings)

"BRANDED! cursed as the one who ran! what do you do when you're branded - and you know you're a man!"

69 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:49:47pm

re: #58 Varek Raith

Rumors and emails.
PROOF!
/Annoyed

He is so famous, so much $$ beyond his titles, his freaking charity.

He's the last guy I'd think to give up against the "man"

Unless the "man" in cycling is something so powerful. Who knows, it's sketchy.

70 Velvet Elvis  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:50:40pm

Why is this bigger news than trying to steal elections with voter ID laws?

71 Digital Display  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:51:08pm

re: #63 Stanley Sea

You effen rock!
Hope today finds you well
You know..And this is the big shock..
Everybody that follows sports knows that Cyclists are the dirtiest athletes in the world.. Fuck for at least 20 years.. Everybody knows it.
I'm sorry that had to be posted.

72 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:51:08pm

re: #70 Velvet Elvis

Why is this bigger news than trying to steal elections with voter ID laws?

HE DUMPED CHERYL CROW MO FO

73 austin_blue  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:51:18pm

George Hincapie.

'nuff said.

74 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:52:03pm

re: #68 engineer cat

(sings)

"BRANDED! cursed as the one who ran! what do you do when you're branded - and you know you're a man!"

Stranded, sitting on the toilet bowl
What do you do when you're stranded
And you ain't got a roll

75 jaunte  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:52:32pm

re: #70 Velvet Elvis

Why is this bigger news than trying to steal elections with voter ID laws?

SQUIRREL!

76 Interesting Times  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:52:46pm

re: #70 Velvet Elvis

Why is this bigger news than trying to steal elections with voter ID laws?

Because Corporate Media* that's why.

*Just noticed how much that sounds like "coprophagia". Appropriate.

77 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:53:18pm

re: #71 Digital Display

You effen rock!
Hope today finds you well
You know..And this is the big shock..
Everybody that follows sports knows that Cyclists are the dirtiest athletes in the world.. Fuck for at least 20 years.. Everybody knows it.
I'm sorry that had to be posted.

Hey Hoops! !! You know it. And I say again, Floyd was not going to go down alone. Postal Service team all the way!

78 Gus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:53:44pm

USADA on Twitter: @usantidoping

79 Robert O.  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:53:50pm

See, I have always wondered how effective these drug tests are. Is it possible for steroids to be taken in such a way or at such a time that you are pretty well assured to pass through the system? With the way competitive sport is, and at (say) the Olympic level, you are always going to get countries that see sporting success as legitimizing its government, could more advanced versions of "East Germany" get around the anti-doping system today?

80 Gus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:54:22pm
81 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:54:34pm

Lance won too much, and simply had to go down, right or wrong.
If he never tested positive, then it was wrong.
Haters are gonna hate, and they love nothing more than to see the guy at the top crash and burn.

82 engineer cat  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:54:41pm

it cheers me up that electoral-vote.com has "rassmussen free" electoral maps

83 compound_Idaho  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:55:33pm

re: #70 Velvet Elvis

Why is this bigger news than trying to steal elections with voter ID laws?

Because no one says on their death bed "I wish in had for ??? voted in 2012.

84 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:56:26pm

re: #72 Stanley Sea

HE DUMPED CHERYL CROW MO FO

Could you imagine living with her? Every time she came at you with a "We Need To Talk", she'd pull out her slightly out-of-tune $3000 Gibson acoustic and emote at you while alternating between E7 and B5 chords. I doubt anyone could put up with that for long.

85 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:56:36pm

re: #63 Stanley Sea

Abso-friggin-lutely.

86 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:56:57pm

re: #79 Robert O.

See, I have always wondered how effective these drug tests are. Is it possible for steroids to be taken in such a way or at such a time that you are pretty well assured to pass through the system? With the way competitive sport is, and at (say) the Olympic level, you are always going to get countries that see sporting success as legitimizing its government, could more advanced versions of "East Germany" get around the anti-doping system today?

My theory? You have the $, the resources, the on site Dr.'s: They have discovered a way to monitor it and beat it.

If the reward (which to me is not easily quantifiable) is there, they will find a way. Beyond the regulatory scope. That's their JOB.

87 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:57:29pm

Oh poor Lance.

That's the meme.

88 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:57:30pm

re: #65 Varek Raith

We have found a witch, might we burn her?

BUILD A bike path BRIDGE OUT OF 'ER!

89 engineer cat  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:58:04pm

re: #84 What Would Spalding Gray Do?

Could you imagine living with her? Every time she came at you with a "We Need To Talk", she'd pull out her slightly out-of-tune $3000 Gibson acoustic and emote at you while alternating between E7 and B5 chords. I doubt anyone could put up with that for long.

B5 chord?

90 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:58:46pm

re: #84 What Would Spalding Gray Do?

Could you imagine living with her? Every time she came at you with a "We Need To Talk", she'd pull out her slightly out-of-tune $3000 Gibson acoustic and emote at you while alternating between E7 and B5 chords. I doubt anyone could put up with that for long.

BRUTAL, but updinged.

91 Gus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:59:36pm

re: #87 Stanley Sea

Oh poor Lance.

That's the meme.

You know. That thought just went through my mind too. That his giving up to the USADA... that it was part of his plan to get public sympathy.

92 Digital Display  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 8:59:58pm

re: #77 Stanley Sea

Hey Hoops! !! You know it. And I say again, Floyd was not going to go down alone. Postal Service team all the way!

Hi You! I think when Floyd hit the scene they did a full story in SI or Sporting news about him.. It was great and I was so rooting for him..
Color me surprised when he had enough fake testosterone in his system to play the King Kong role for Peter King.

93 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 9:00:59pm

re: #91 Gus

You know. That thought just went through my mind too. That his giving up to the USADA... that it was part of his plan to get public sympathy.

lie, lie, deny. Now FOLD is in the equation.

Manipulation of media is what we are seeing.

94 dragonath  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 9:01:37pm

I'm curious how this Floyd Landis guy fits in. Was he forced to reveal this, or does he just have a vindictive streak a mile long?

95 engineer cat  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 9:01:54pm

B5 chord

huh

i'd never heard of a '5' chord, unless you meant the dominant which it didn't seem you meant, but looking it up it seems to indicate what i'd call open fifths

96 austin_blue  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 9:02:00pm

re: #73 austin_blue

George Hincapie.

'nuff said.

Perhaps I wasn't clear. Hincapie testified against Lance, and Lance folded his cards. End of this story, end of this thread.

97 Digital Display  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 9:02:04pm

re: #84 What Would Spalding Gray Do?

Could you imagine living with her? Every time she came at you with a "We Need To Talk", she'd pull out her slightly out-of-tune $3000 Gibson acoustic and emote at you while alternating between E7 and B5 chords. I doubt anyone could put up with that for long.

Are you out of you effen mind?
She could sing me to sleep any day of the week..
Stop harshing my buzz here!
*wink*

98 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 9:02:07pm

re: #92 Digital Display


Destination not San Diego? cryptic

99 Gus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 9:02:33pm

re: #93 Stanley Sea

lie, lie, deny. Now FOLD is in the equation.

Manipulation of media is what we are seeing.

Could be. We'll never know.

100 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 9:05:20pm

Project Runway!!! See ya!

101 austin_blue  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 9:05:41pm

So, anybody wanna talk about the definition of human life?

Just askin'.

102 engineer cat  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 9:07:58pm

re: #101 austin_blue

So, anybody wanna talk about the definition of human life?

Just askin'.

this question having been put to a council of orthodox rabbis, they finally decided on a definition of life as beginning when the fetus graduates from medical school

103 Digital Display  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 9:09:44pm

re: #98 Stanley Sea

Destination not San Diego? cryptic

No..I'm moving to the middle of fucking nowhere. The property in Cali is for sale..I have the check from Met-Life. ( Remember the black lady that faints when she gets the check from Apple in Forrest Gump? That was me )
Winston And I are packing up soon to move to our new home in the fucking middle of nowhere. ( I'm going to buy a pick up truck )
I'm very excited..

104 bratwurst  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 9:10:12pm

re: #101 austin_blue

So, anybody wanna talk about the definition of human life?

Just askin'.

Mike Huckabee is on the air 3 hours every day now, he would be thrilled to take your call!

105 Gus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 9:10:39pm

Well. There is one funny outcome out of all of this. Right about now I can imagine more than a few wingnuts screaming, "fuck France!!" Even though France has nothing to do with this news.

106 jaunte  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 9:11:20pm

re: #101 austin_blue

So, anybody wanna talk about the definition of human life?

I understand it begins with the first offshore bank account.

107 Kragar  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 9:11:58pm

re: #101 austin_blue

So, anybody wanna talk about the definition of human life?

Just askin'.

According to David Barton, life begins before conception.

108 3eff Jeff  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 9:14:23pm

re: #86 Stanley Sea

My theory? You have the $, the resources, the on site Dr.'s: They have discovered a way to monitor it and beat it.

If the reward (which to me is not easily quantifiable) is there, they will find a way. Beyond the regulatory scope. That's their JOB.

Coming out of lurk mode temporarily: it's not a theory. The biological half-lives of various performance enhancing drugs are all well known. There are certainly plenty of old wives cures for flushing metabolites out of your system faster (I was a ski instructor in a past life, snow sports instructors are a great source of how-to-pass-a-drug-test miracle techniques).

For anabolic steroids, since the effect is faster muscle recovery, you can stop using them and train at a normal rate for a few weeks before a known test date and they won't catch you. The extra testosterone is out of your system, and the muscle doesn't go away when you stop the steroid course (since it was actually generated by weight lifting, the steroids just let you do more work, faster).

Anabolic steroids aren't popular amongst cyclists. EPO is much more interesting, but to benefit, it does require you take it very close to competition, since it modifies the amount of oxygen carriers in your blood stream. Two other ways to get similar effects are to train in low-oxygen environments or boost the volume of blood in your system (draw a few pints a month before the competition, carefully store it, and transfuse it back in right before the competition). My understanding is all three tend to look the same on early tests (used in the 1990s). They've got better direct tests now.

Given all that, I tend to believe Lance (there's a certain amount of "I want to believe" here, and I freely admit it), but there is the possibility that his trainers were just super smart about it. There really isn't a way to prove it one way or the other. However, it sounds like all they have is testimony from ex-teammates who were caught red handed and seem to have an axe to grind.

These focus more on steroids and other sports (various Olympic events and power lifting), but there's some good documentaries out there:
[Link: www.pbs.org...]

Anyway, going back to lurk mode.

109 Gus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 9:17:35pm

re: #107 Kragar

According to David Barton, life begins before conception.

So before he was David Barton he was a common house fly?

110 Kragar  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 9:20:31pm

re: #109 Gus

So before he was David Barton he was a common house fly?

Why do you hate flies?

111 Gus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 9:21:29pm

re: #110 Kragar

Why do you hate flies?

They swallow my pies.
and cake is a lie.

112 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 9:24:32pm

re: #95 engineer cat

B5 chord

huh

i'd never heard of a '5' chord, unless you meant the dominant which it didn't seem you meant, but looking it up it seems to indicate what i'd call open fifths

Yes, that exotic, rarely-heard chord consisting only of the root and 5th, with the occasional octave. Certainly never, ever occurs in guitar-oriented rock and/or rock-derived music.

113 austin_blue  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 9:25:37pm

re: #107 Kragar

According to David Barton, life begins before conception.

Every sperm is sacred
Every sperm is great
When a sperm is wasted
God gets quite irate.

When Monty Python and David Barton agree, and the band starts playing

The World Turned Upside Down

, only those citizens who understand the irony will laugh.

And I've got to hit the rack. Night all. Sweet scaly dreams.

114 dragonath  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 9:26:41pm
I was retroactively logged-on conceived on 03/12/1947. Erasmus Hanszel Erickson created me and Ayn Rand programmed me.

I shall be named... WILLARD!!

*thunder*

115 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 9:29:20pm

Ah well, at the end of the day, I really don't give a crap about Lance Armstrong, his nuts, or whether or not he took steroids.
I'm concerned about that shady, lying, M-Fer named Mitt.

116 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 9:30:36pm

re: #113 austin_blue

When Monty Python and David Barton agree, and the band starts playing

BUT THEN, SUDDENLY:

117 dragonath  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 9:32:52pm
118 freetoken  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 9:34:43pm

Romney Pulls Ahead Nationally

A new Fox News poll shows Mitt Romney inching ahead of President Obama among likely voters nationally, 45% to 44%.

Hmmm....

119 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 9:36:13pm

Now if Ron Paul was roided-out, that would be something to talk about !
It would also be terrifying.

120 Gus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 9:37:15pm

re: #119 OhNoZombies!

Now if Ron Paul was roided-out, that would be something to talk about !
It would also be terrifying.

Roid Paul!

Dior Luap!

121 SpaceJesus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 9:39:49pm

Having read this article, I think there's a real good chance Lance did it.

[Link: www.cyclingnews.com...]

122 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 9:41:00pm

re: #120 Gus

Dior Luap SMASH !
Dior Luap smash the FED !

123 HappyWarrior  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 9:41:02pm

re: #119 OhNoZombies!

Now if Ron Paul was roided-out, that would be something to talk about !
It would also be terrifying.

Oh that would be the most hilarious news story of the year.

124 freetoken  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 9:42:49pm

That Fox News poll is about as stupid as they get, for those trying to pass themselves off as serious measures of American voting trends.

It's loaded with highly leading questions.

125 Mich-again  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 9:43:01pm

Whoever wins at cycling gets accused of cheating by whoever loses. It reminds me of how someone always yells FIX! whenever they pull the winning ticket at a 50-50 raffle.

126 freetoken  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 9:44:33pm

I accuse Fox News of doping.

127 Kronocide  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 9:49:29pm

re: #126 freetoken

I accuse Fox News of doping.

They doped themselves and about 43,905,345 conservatives.

128 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 9:49:34pm

re: #65 Varek Raith

We have found a witch, might we burn her?

Does she float?

129 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 9:52:12pm

re: #126 freetoken

I accuse Fox News of doping.

Nah. They sell product.
Fox News -- Crack for dummies.

130 Gus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 9:54:54pm

re: #126 freetoken

I accuse Fox News of doping.

...the American people.

131 Mich-again  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 9:56:07pm

re: #126 freetoken

I accuse Fox News of doping.

People who watch Fox News every day get stupider and stupider. Not unlike those who take a hit of acid every day.

132 freetoken  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 9:58:05pm

And now, for the rest of the news...

It looks like dancing has been good for Bristol Palin, as she looks slimmer and stronger:

[Link: www.hollywoodreporter.com...]

Although losing weight has made her appear older in the face. Yet the skimpy black dress does her well.

133 Big Joe  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 9:59:20pm

re: #131 Mich-again

People who watch Fox News every day get stupider and stupider. Not unlike those who take a hit of acid every day.

LSD is not near as dangerous as Fox News!

134 Gus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 9:59:58pm

re: #131 Mich-again

People who watch Fox News every day get stupider and stupider. Not unlike those who take a hit of acid every day.

Although Fox News is probably more like a couple of lines of coke per day.

135 Kragar  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:00:24pm

re: #134 Gus

Although Fox News is probably more like a couple of lines of coke per day.

Bath salts, definitely.

136 HappyWarrior  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:00:26pm

What drugs get you paranoid? That's the one Fox is like.

137 Gus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:01:31pm

re: #135 Kragar

Bath salts, definitely.

It's like Tony Montana and it comes with guns!

138 freetoken  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:01:41pm

More important news:

Kim Kardashian And Kanye West Are Actively Trying For A Baby

"Actively"? What's the other option - passively ?

139 Big Joe  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:01:53pm

re: #136 HappyWarrior

What drugs get you paranoid? That's the one Fox is like.

Speed

140 Gus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:02:12pm

re: #139 Big Joe

Speed

Meth!

141 Gus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:02:24pm

Fits their demographic.

142 HappyWarrior  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:03:08pm

re: #139 Big Joe

Speed

There ya go. That's what Fox is. When you have guys like Hannity telling you that the mean old liberals are responsible for everything bad and you the patriotic conservative are everything great about this country. You see the crazy shit we've seen these past years.

143 jaunte  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:04:10pm

re: #137 Gus

It's like Tony Montana and it comes with guns!

"Say hello to my little Fox&Friends."

144 Kragar  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:04:56pm

Scariest thing ever:

When you're in a room full of stoners and the clock radio comes on to static at 3:00 am.

"Duuude....."
"Do you hear it to?"
"...Yeah."
"I thought the voices were going to tell me to kill you."
"Me too."
"Dude."

145 engineer cat  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:05:34pm

re: #112 What Would Spalding Gray Do?

Yes, that exotic, rarely-heard chord consisting only of the root and 5th, with the occasional octave. Certainly never, ever occurs in guitar-oriented rock and/or rock-derived music.

now now, no need to get snippy about it

146 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:05:44pm

How pathetic, really. I'm so upset that he doped, that's his business. What I have a hard time with is the guy that capitalizes on it --like he is the all-American great guy etc. He did a lot of cancer-awareness, IIRC. Just such a shame.

If he is that good, did he really need the dope?

147 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:05:54pm

re: #136 HappyWarrior

What drugs get you paranoid? That's the one Fox is like.

Black helicopters, black panthers, black burquas, black people in the white house that secretly wear black dashikis...

Fox News induced paranoia

148 Gus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:05:56pm

PSA: tax sheltering is not tax evasion.

149 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:06:22pm
150 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:07:42pm

re: #149 ggt

Black cats !!!

151 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:08:09pm

re: #131 Mich-again

People who watch Fox News every day get stupider and stupider. Not unlike those who take a hit of acid every day.

ಠ_ಠ

152 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:08:31pm

re: #142 HappyWarrior

There ya go. That's what Fox is. When you have guys like Hannity telling you that the mean old liberals are responsible for everything bad and you the patriotic conservative are everything great about this country. You see the crazy shit we've seen these past years.

Speaking of Fox.

*spit*spit*spit*

153 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:09:35pm

re: #138 freetoken

More important news:

Kim Kardashian And Kanye West Are Actively Trying For A Baby

"Actively"? What's the other option - passively ?

They aren't using birth control . . .?

154 sagehen  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:09:40pm

re: #136 HappyWarrior

What drugs get you paranoid? That's the one Fox is like.

Speed.

(hmmm... they also do a lot of large graphics, bright colors, flash cut editing....)

155 Mich-again  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:10:42pm

re: #148 Gus

PSA: tax sheltering is not tax evasion.

Its not illegal until you are convicted. That is the exact statement my pro-Romney co-worker said today when I pointed out how Mitt absolutely cheated one way or another to acquire $100 million in his IRA.

156 HappyWarrior  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:10:46pm

re: #152 ggt

Speaking of Fox.

*spit*spit*spit*

Shocked./// But they appeal to a very sophomoric demographic even if that demographic is actually older.

157 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:11:10pm

bbiab

158 Gus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:13:14pm

re: #155 Mich-again

Its not illegal until you are convicted. That is the exact statement my pro-Romney co-worker said today when I pointed out how Mitt absolutely cheated one way or another to acquire $100 million in his IRA.

If it's an illegal act of tax sheltering it would fit under that category. But legal tax sheltering is simply not tax evasion. The IRA we can't prove anything for or against since we have no proof otherwise. So right now saying that Mitt Romney "cheated" is a negative which can't be proven or unproven.

159 dragonath  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:15:01pm

re: #154 sagehen

Frank says:

Speed will turn you into your parents

160 HappyWarrior  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:15:35pm

Thing that Fox and other RW media outlets do brilliantly is convince their viewers or listeners in the case of radio that the media outlet is somehow fighting for the underdog against a bully usually (big government, a special interest group like labor or a religious or cultural minority). It's how even though there have been hundreds of cookie cutter talk show hosts in the same mold of Rush Limbaugh that shows like that continue to thrive because alot of people really do believe that the big mouth is somehow standing up for "you" against the bad guys even though they really could give two shits about their fans.

161 Mich-again  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:17:58pm

And when the Pro-Mitts bitch about why he doesn't need to show his tax returns, I point out that the one tax return he has provided shows all I need to see. I think the entire controversy over the other tax returns that have not been released is just a smokescreen to make people overlook the damning evidence on the one tax return he did provide.

Mitt is clearly a tax cheat. There is no plausible legal explanation for how his IRA has $100 million in it. He either under-reported the value of the stocks he put into it originally, or he used insider information to make very profitable trades once the funds were in it.

You don't outperform the market 100 times without "help".

162 hans ze beeman  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:18:55pm

The last undoped winners of the tour de France were probably those before WW1

163 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:19:18pm

re: #136 HappyWarrior

What drugs get you paranoid? That's the one Fox is like.

In honor of the thread, a steroid abuser on Meth... uncontrollable rage and paranoia mixed into one... :eek:

164 dragonath  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:20:02pm

re: #160 HappyWarrior

Bitching nonstop: morning, noon and night. Every day. On radio, arguably the most establishment-friendly medium of them all.

Yeah, I really wish some people would get a clue.

165 Mich-again  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:20:03pm

re: #158 Gus

If it's an illegal act of tax sheltering it would fit under that category. But legal tax sheltering is simply not tax evasion. The IRA we can't prove anything for or against since we have no proof otherwise. So right now saying that Mitt Romney "cheated" is a negative which can't be proven or unproven.

Martha Stewart went to jail for a far lesser offense.

166 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:20:19pm

re: #162 hans ze beeman

The last undoped winners of the tour de France were probably those before WW1

They had coke then. Remember Sherlocks 7% habit...

167 Mocking Jay  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:22:08pm

re: #161 Mich-again

And when the Pro-Mitts bitch about why he doesn't need to show his tax returns, I point out that the one tax return he has provided shows all I need to see. I think the entire controversy over the other tax returns that have not been released is just a smokescreen to make people overlook the damning evidence on the one tax return he did provide.

Mitt is clearly a tax cheat. There is no plausible legal explanation for how his IRA has $100 million in it. He either under-reported the value of the stocks he put into it originally, or he used insider information to make very profitable trades once the funds were in it.

You don't outperform the market 100 times without "help".

Most of the opinions I've read on the IRA believe that it's legitimate. The problem is that we have shitty rules that allow for it.

168 Gus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:22:14pm

re: #165 Mich-again

Martha Stewart went to jail for a far lesser offense.

What offense is Mitt Romney guilty of? Someone needs to show me because so far I haven't seen anyone bring to me attention. I'm looking at this logically and reasonably. It's simple, saying that Mitt Romney is guilty of tax evasion is not a fact. It's just hearsay of the highest degree. It's like saying Julian Assange is a rapist even though I think they need to drag his ass in for questioning.

169 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:22:40pm

re: #163 William Barnett-Lewis

And what the the number one drug is here in the heartland?

170 Mocking Jay  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:23:45pm

re: #165 Mich-again

Martha Stewart went to jail for a far lesser offense.

I won't name names, but you're talking to people who would love for something illegal to be found in Mitt's returns.

One of those names is mine.

171 HappyWarrior  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:24:49pm

re: #164 dragonath

Bitching nonstop: morning, noon and night. Every day. On radio, arguably the most establishment-friendly medium of them all.

Yeah, I really wish some people would get a clue.

It really is an art form.
1.) Get radio show.
2.) Bitch
3.) ?????
4.) Profit
And I didn't even touch that these guys write new books every two years that is pretty much the same crap: Liberals are bad, blah blah blah. It's truly a sad industry.

172 Mich-again  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:25:08pm

The standard for honorable public servants is to act in manner so as to prevent the appearance of an impropriety. Mitt was raised to believe that all he needs to do to achieve honorable status is to act in a manner that prevents a felony conviction. Not quite the same standard.

173 dragonath  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:25:44pm

re: #169 OhNoZombies!

And what the the number one drug is here in the heartland?

I freebase the charred remains of Sarah Palin votive candles.

174 Mocking Jay  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:26:11pm

re: #170 Mocking Jay

I won't name names, but you're talking to people who would love for something illegal to be found in Mitt's returns.

One of those names is mine.

Eh, the point I'm trying to make is that I'm not all that interested in defending Mitt. There just isn't any fire here. I can't blame you for seeing smoke, but no laws have been broken. Laws have been followed. Really really shitty laws. But laws nonetheless.

175 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:28:41pm

re: #168 Gus

Sometimes it's not what you're doing, but what you look like you're doing. This is about defining Mitt Romney, I think.
Gordon Gekko would legitimately rape the country, proactively and retroactively.
Mitt is doing himself no favors.

176 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:29:34pm

re: #132 freetoken

And now, for the rest of the news...

It looks like dancing has been good for Bristol Palin, as she looks slimmer and stronger:

[Link: www.hollywoodreporter.com...]

Although losing weight has made her appear older in the face. Yet the skimpy black dress does her well.

She's twenty-one. How old can her face look?

177 Mocking Jay  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:29:41pm

re: #172 Mich-again

The standard for honorable public servants is to act in manner so as to prevent the appearance of an impropriety. Mitt was raised to believe that all he needs to do to achieve honorable status is to act in a manner that prevents a felony conviction. Not quite the same standard.

Dude, no one here is going to argue with you on that score. Mitt Romney is presenting us with the lowest fucking bar for standards I have ever seen. "I have followed the law." Well gee, that's nice.

As I've said on this board before, you can be unethical and still completely legal at the same time. Mitt is only interested in the latter. Hell, I think that's all he's ever been interested in... and even then I would love to see if he got amnesty. Oh that would be so sweet.

178 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:30:14pm

re: #138 freetoken

More important news:

Kim Kardashian And Kanye West Are Actively Trying For A Baby

"Actively"? What's the other option - passively ?

Probably means they're checking cycles, and taking vitamins and all, rather than figuring, 'eh, if it happens, good'.

179 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:31:38pm

re: #173 dragonath

It won't last. Soon you'll get the sudden urge to quit right in the middle of a hit.

180 Lidane  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:33:07pm

Have a good night, Lizards! I'm off to read a bit before bed. Since the GOP has been in total gender fail mode lately, my book choice is a fun one:

[Link: www.amazon.com...]

Loving this so far. It's definitely very British, and it helps to have been a child of the 80's to really get it, but it's great. Funny stuff.

181 freetoken  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:34:51pm

re: #176 SanFranciscoZionist

She's twenty-one. How old can her face look?

Old.

The compression into two dimensions inherent in photography/videography can make quite a visual change, compared to looking at a person in reality.

Bristol in particular, because of the weight loss (and the makeup) has over-emphasized the upper cheeks, drawing in the flesh on the side. It makes her face appear too long, not unlike women who get too many facelifts.

Those images of her maker her indistinguishable from many 30-somethings.

182 Gus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:37:22pm

re: #174 Mocking Jay

Eh, the point I'm trying to make is that I'm not all that interested in defending Mitt. There just isn't any fire here. I can't blame you for seeing smoke, but no laws have been broken. Laws have been followed. Really really shitty laws. But laws nonetheless.

Principle should always come before partisanship. It's difficult to see sometimes in this current Helter Skelter world of politics but every effort must be made to maintain one's common sense principles. There are many here including the presumption of innocence or even the scientific method. Quite simply it's law.

Bain is a dead end I'm afraid and my message to the Obama camp and Democrats is to move on to other issues and not focus so much on Bain. Unless they have the smoking gun document in their hand they're going to start sounding like that other group of people looking for another document.

183 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:38:57pm

Good night, all.

184 Mich-again  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:40:59pm

re: #177 Mocking Jay

Dude, no one here is going to argue with you on that score. Mitt Romney is presenting us with the lowest fucking bar for standards I have ever seen. "I have followed the law." Well gee, that's nice.

As I've said on this board before, you can be unethical and still completely legal at the same time. Mitt is only interested in the latter. Hell, I think that's all he's ever been interested in... and even then I would love to see if he got amnesty. Oh that would be so sweet.

By not providing his returns Mitt is purposely leaving the American voters to speculate on exactly how he managed to acquire $100 million in his IRA when the yearly contribution limits coupled with the trends for financial markets in that time period lead to far lower estimates of what his IRA would have accummulated if he had deposited the legal amount and had average person's luck in the market. Mitt had some tremendous "help" one way or the other.

185 freetoken  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:41:40pm

Here's a slightly larger image of Bristol and her partner.

Now, the facial expression is really bad and contributes to the problem.

Besides looking like she is a Kardashian, she looks much older than many would expect of a 21 year old.

In our culture's continued fetish with youth, taking this approach for a "look" by a celebrity is definitely swimming upstream.

186 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:45:28pm

Well I'm out.
Gotta get my nightly dose of Christian Bale, er, I mean high brow literature regarding the economic impact of the...cotton...gin...
No, I mean Christian Bale.

187 Mich-again  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:47:38pm

re: #182 Gus

Bain is a dead end I'm afraid and my message to the Obama camp and Democrats is to move on to other issues and not focus so much on Bain.

If people are to neglect what happened at Bain, then why the heck would anyone vote for Mitt at all. That is his main selling point.

188 dragonath  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:49:13pm

re: #162 hans ze beeman

The last undoped winners of the tour de France were probably those before WW1

Adolf would agree with you

189 freetoken  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:49:58pm

WND continues to rally for support for Akin, and now has none other than Diana West trumpeting the importance of defending Akin:

WAKE UP, GOP, AND QUIT OSTRACIZING AKIN

Prediction: If the GOP establishment doesn’t follow Republican Rep. Todd Akin’s example with a big, fat apology – to Akin – the whole party goes down in flames come November.

[...]

And the commenters are chiming right in, with some actually saying Akin's "biology" is correct.

The stoopid is beyond burning, it now just stinks.

190 Gus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:50:04pm

re: #187 Mich-again

If people are to neglect what happened at Bain, then why the heck would anyone vote for Mitt at all. That is his main selling point.

Abortion, contraception, environment, education, economy, foreign policy. Over exposure creates voter apathy. If you keep showing Bain in front of their face sooner or later they become desensitized.

191 palomino  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:51:28pm

Fox's poll may be BS, but the polls have indeed tightened up...Obama has only a 1.2% lead in the composite national poll (Pollster aggregate). And most of the usual suspect swing states are in the tossup category, meaning the leader is up by 3% or less.

With voter suppression, tons of goper SuperPac money, a shitty economy and a Dem base less enthused than in 2008, this is no cakewalk. Nate Silver still has Obama at a 65% chance of winning, but that hardly makes me comfortable. And whatever the outcome Obama won't win the decisive victory he did in 2008, so there won't be any more compromises from the GOP in his 2nd term than his 1st--meaning basically zero. States like IN and NC aren't even in play this time, so the election is likely to be very close with neither house of Congress changing hands. If Obama does win, he won't be able to get anything done due to TP obstructionism. If Romney pulls it out, nothing much will get done because, other than tax cuts, he's really got no plans to begin with.

Romney just wants the job; everything else is negotiable. If you have any doubts about this, just compare the guy he was 10 years ago (self-described "progressive moderate Republican") to the "severely conservative" guy he claims to be today.

192 Mocking Jay  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:52:36pm

re: #189 freetoken

WND continues to rally for support for Akin, and now has none other than Diana West trumpeting the importance of defending Akin:

WAKE UP, GOP, AND QUIT OSTRACIZING AKIN

And the commenters are chiming right in, with some actually saying Akin's "biology" is correct.

The stoopid is beyond burning, it now just stinks.

Josh Marshall pointed out that Michele Bachmann has been conspicuously silent on the issue. I wonder what she thinks of all this.

Well, I take back. I'm pretty sure I know how she feels about it. I just wonder what she'll choose to actually say about it.

193 Gus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:53:41pm

Also, from my personal experience the average Joe usually sees a political ad and thinks "not this shit again" and go grabs a snack. I don't watch political ads not only because I don't watch TV but because I know that most are bullshit. I can look at them critically however but from a political consultant POV.

194 SpaceJesus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:54:59pm

re: #189 freetoken

i really like this prediction

195 Gus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:55:48pm

re: #194 SpaceJesus

i really like this prediction

It's true you know. What the GOP is doing to Akin is a slap in the face to the pro-life base.

196 Big Joe  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:56:26pm

Tonight's entertainment: 50 shades read by Gilbert Gottfried

197 freetoken  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:56:53pm

re: #191 palomino

I'm not saying that other polls show a close race.

That said, such "polling" really is highly questionable, for at least two reasons:

(1) the feed back loop effect - polls themselves are marketing tools, which is why the Fox Poll is what it is;

(2) measurement uncertainty - this is where innumeracy comes in. Note how polls sneak in wording about "plus or minus n%". What the heck does that mean? This is nothing less than confusing by statistical mumbo jumbo. The reality that uncertainty has definitions in science and statistics, and the polling done by these political publicity machines have very large uncertainties - much larger than the wording implies.

198 freetoken  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:57:35pm

re: #197 freetoken

pimf "I'm not saying that others polls aren't..."

199 engineer cat  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 10:59:31pm
200 Mich-again  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:00:14pm

re: #191 palomino

Romney just wants the job; everything else is negotiable. If you have any doubts about this, just compare the guy he was 10 years ago (self-described "progressive moderate Republican") to the "severely conservative" guy he claims to be today.

I agree with that. I think if there was a democratic controlled legislature, I would be OK with Mitt as President because he would be a moderate, as he was in his stint as a Republican Governor in MA.

But with the Tea Billies running Congress, having Mitt in the oval office would be scary at best. He'd be a wet fish rubber stamp for their initiatives. Because that is what he would have to be to get re-elected. Which would be the only goal for his first term.

201 Kragar  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:02:56pm

re: #194 SpaceJesus

i really like this prediction

The term is "Challenge Accepted".

202 Gus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:03:31pm

re: #200 Mich-again

I agree with that. I think if there was a democratic controlled legislature, I would be OK with Mitt as President because he would be a moderate, as he was in his stint as a Republican Governor in MA.

But with the Tea Billies running Congress, having Mitt in the oval office would be scary at best. He's be a wet fish rubber stamp for their initiatives. Because that is what he would have to be to get re-elected. Which would be the only goal for his first term.

Technically the Tea Billies aren't running congress but I agree overall about Romney combined with this House. It's doubtful the GOP will get the Senate. So we could still expect a great deal of resistance from the Senate.

203 SpaceJesus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:04:45pm

re: #195 Gus

they'll still vote republican

204 Big Joe  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:06:36pm

re: #196 Big Joe

Tonight's entertainment: 50 shades read by Gilbert Gottfried

[Embedded content]

oops, that was supposed to say 50 Shades of Grey read by Gilbert Gottfried.

205 SpaceJesus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:07:20pm

the religious right likes to be put in its place by authority every now and then - they like to be disrespected by the party leaders.

"tell me again how my views are backwards. yeah, i like that. tell me what a bad, bad example of conservatism i am, yeah. tell me hard." - evangelicals

206 Gus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:08:04pm

re: #203 SpaceJesus

they'll still vote republican

Yeah. It's like the thinking environmentalists won't vote for Obama because of those clean air extensions he put in a couple of years ago.

207 SpaceJesus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:08:37pm

i've been drinking tonight

208 palomino  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:09:15pm

re: #197 freetoken

I'm not saying that other polls show a close race.

That said, such "polling" really is highly questionable, for at least two reasons:

(1) the feed back loop effect - polls themselves are marketing tools, which is why the Fox Poll is what it is;

(2) measurement uncertainty - this is where innumeracy comes in. Note how polls sneak in wording about "plus or minus n%". What the heck does that mean? This is nothing less than confusing by statistical mumbo jumbo. The reality that uncertainty has definitions in science and statistics, and the polling done by these political publicity machines have very large uncertainties - much larger than the wording implies.

Which is why the average of a number of polls is much more helpful, and usually closer to the actual outcome, than individual polls of X Co. One thing is very likely, however: absent a game changing event, we'll have an election that makes 2008 look like a landslide.

209 Gus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:09:32pm

re: #207 SpaceJesus

i've been drinking tonight

Oddly enough I've been drinking water. Now I'm thinking about stealing a beer.

210 SpaceJesus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:10:32pm

zinfandel

211 SpaceJesus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:10:48pm

you see, i am an elitist

212 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:16:22pm

On an unrelated note, I have appointed myself United Nations Commissioner in Waiting for Lubbock County, pending the arrival of our troops and those ACORN reinforcements this December. I am not sure what the salary will be but there should be plenty of opportunities for graft and corruption so it doesn't matter. My rule will be firm but fair, unless the locals piss me off, in which case it's off to FEMA camp with them.

I have already decided on a few changes in local procedure, to be instituted immediately upon my accession to office:
-No stop light will remain red for more than 30 seconds.
-Vehicles attempting to merge onto freeways at less than 45 mph will be vaporized by attack drones.
-To maintain the peace, if not law and order, free marijuana will be provided to Texas Tech fans on football game days, by emergency airdrop if necessary. Low-cost Oreo knock-offs and other cheap munchies will be transported to the affected areas in city dump trucks as required.
-Walmart will be abolished, its inventory auctioned off, and its buildings converted into detention centers for suspected zombies and shape-shifter aliens (we will be ready for ALL contingencies).
-Drunk drivers will be deported to Amarillo for a first offense, Waco for the second, and Afghanistan for the third.

213 Gus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:17:44pm

re: #212 Shiplord Kirel

The question arises, does Lubbock have its own aircraft carrier?

214 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:19:07pm

re: #213 Gus

The question arises, does Lubbock have its own aircraft carrier?

Not yet, but I'm sure with enough kickbacks hard work from the contractors, we can get it done.

215 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:19:33pm

re: #169 OhNoZombies!

And what the the number one drug is here in the heartland?

after alcohol? Hillbilly Heroin?

216 Targetpractice  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:20:55pm

re: #213 Gus

The question arises, does Lubbock have its own aircraft carrier?

Isn't Lubbock landlocked?

217 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:21:35pm

re: #185 freetoken

Here's a slightly larger image of Bristol and her partner.

Now, the facial expression is really bad and contributes to the problem.

Besides looking like she is a Kardashian, she looks much older than many would expect of a 21 year old.

In our culture's continued fetish with youth, taking this approach for a "look" by a celebrity is definitely swimming upstream.

She is a pretty girl --so?

218 SpaceJesus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:23:09pm

re: #216 Targetpractice

that didn't stop wyoming

[Link: www.forbes.com...]

219 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:24:14pm

re: #218 SpaceJesus

that didn't stop wyoming

[Link: www.forbes.com...]

HOw does that work when you are land locked?

220 freetoken  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:24:30pm

re: #217 ggt

She is a pretty girl --so?

I'm just sayin' - in our culture, looking younger is better than looking older.

221 Lidane  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:24:36pm

re: #212 Shiplord Kirel

-To maintain the peace, if not law and order, free marijuana will be provided to Texas Tech fans on football game days, by emergency airdrop if necessary. Low-cost Oreo knock-offs and other cheap munchies will be transported to the affected areas in city dump trucks as required.

Can I amend this rule to add in BOTH Texas and Texas A&M fans, especially whenever the hell the Sooners cross the Red River?

Also, I have grad school classmates who went to Tech. This rule should just apply for them in general. Heh.

Drunk drivers will be deported to Amarillo for a first offense, Waco for the second, and Afghanistan for the third.

Ouch. Harsh. I visited some friends recently and they're just outside Waco. Sweet zombie Jeebus it's boring as fuck around there. Never again, thanks.

222 Gus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:25:38pm

re: #216 Targetpractice

Isn't Lubbock landlocked?

Yep.

223 Gus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:27:35pm

re: #220 freetoken

I'm just sayin' - in our culture, looking younger is better than looking older.

Global culture. I don't think it's an affect of culture but instead a typical human behavior.

224 engineer cat  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:27:53pm

Besides looking like she is a Kardashian

there's nothing wrong with kardashians that couldn't be cured by a tasteful wardrobe and a decent education

225 Mich-again  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:28:00pm

re: #190 Gus

Abortion, contraception, environment, education, economy, foreign policy.

The Teabillies have 100% absolutely bought into the standard conservative positions regarding these topics and there is no chance of planting a seed of doubt here. That is why I want to point out the practical impossibility that a person following all the rules could accummulate so much wealth in their IRA.

As for those who think the lack of a tax evasion conviction prove Mitt's innocence, I would point out that the same IRS also has so far refused to revoke the 501(c)(3) status of ALEC, Heartland Institute, ProEnglish et al, even though these organizations clearly violate the IRS's own rules regarding lobbying.

We already know for a fact that Mitt plays fast and loose regarding tax laws (see: Son of BOSS). Why would any rational person think that Mitt would be above tax evasion on his personal return? Once a person is caught red-handed in a lie, why give them the benefit of doubt the next time?

226 Lidane  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:30:19pm

re: #216 Targetpractice

Isn't Lubbock landlocked?

Given enough time, enough illegal immigrant labor, and enough government graft, this will not be an issue.

227 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:33:29pm

re: #220 freetoken

I'm just sayin' - in our culture, looking younger is better than looking older.

Better for what? For making money as a personality instead of going to college and getting a job?

228 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:34:01pm

re: #226 Lidane

Given enough time, enough illegal immigrant labor, and enough government graft, this will not be an issue.

Cascadia?

229 freetoken  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:34:28pm

re: #208 palomino

...One thing is very likely, however: absent a game changing event, we'll have an election that makes 2008 look like a landslide.

Maybe, if one looks at the electoral college.

However, I expect Obama to significantly beat Romney in nation-wide popular votes. I'm expecting California alone to go even more Democratic than in the last election, in which Obama got over 61% of the vote. I wouldn't be surprised if this year Obama carries California by at least 4 million.

230 freetoken  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:34:49pm

re: #227 ggt

Yes.

231 Gus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:36:51pm

re: #225 Mich-again

OK. I'm pretty tired right now so I'll leave it at that.

232 Gus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:40:09pm

re: #229 freetoken

Maybe, if one looks at the electoral college.

However, I expect Obama to significantly beat Romney in nation-wide popular votes. I'm expecting California alone to go even more Democratic than in the last election, in which Obama got over 61% of the vote. I wouldn't be surprised if this year Obama carries California by at least 4 million.

Can I guess which state Obama will win? OK, here goes.

California
Washington
Oregon
New Mexico
Colorado
New York
New Jersey
Illinois
Vermont
Massachusetts
Florida
Hawaii
Minnesota

Toss ups being Ohio and Pennsylvania

What's the tally?

233 Gus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:41:17pm

Connecticut
Delaware
DC

234 SpaceJesus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:42:04pm
235 Lidane  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:45:02pm

Cue the RWNJ outrage over Ebil Gubmint in 3...2...1...

236 Gus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:45:29pm

[Spooky music.]

Max Blumenthal ‏@MaxBlumenthal
Do you feel safe yet? Drones to patrol the Republican National Convention: [Link: www2.tbo.com...]

I swear these guys never stop.

237 Mich-again  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:47:56pm

re: #232 Gus

Michigan. Mitt will not win his home state. The damage form his "Liquidate Detroit" position can not be undone. Perhaps another GOP candidate will carry this State someday, but it won't be Mitt in 2012.

238 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:48:00pm

re: #230 freetoken

Yes.

ah!

239 freetoken  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:50:23pm

re: #236 Gus

240 palomino  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:50:43pm

re: #229 freetoken

Maybe, if one looks at the electoral college.

However, I expect Obama to significantly beat Romney in nation-wide popular votes. I'm expecting California alone to go even more Democratic than in the last election, in which Obama got over 61% of the vote. I wouldn't be surprised if this year Obama carries California by at least 4 million.

As we painfully learned in 2000, the electoral college is the only measure that counts. True, my home state of Cali and some others will go very heavily Dem, but some states (IN, NC, WI, FL) will either end up in the other column, or be closer than 2008. Moreover, hysterical Obama hatred is likely to give the gop bigger margins of victory than 4 years ago in the reddest of states. Either way, there will probably not be a repeat of Obama's 2008 popular vote victory margin of 10 million.

241 Gus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:50:45pm

re: #237 Mich-again

Michigan. Mitt will not win his home state. The damage form his "Liquidate Detroit" position can not be undone. Perhaps another GOP candidate will carry this State someday, but it won't be Mitt in 2012.

Nate Silver has Obama's chances of winning Michigan at almost 90 percent: [Link: fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com...]

242 Gus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:51:57pm

re: #241 Gus

Nate Silver has Obama's chances of winning Michigan at almost 90 percent: [Link: fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com...]

Michigan
FiveThirtyEight Projections Dem Rep Margin
Polling average 47.2 43.7 Obama +3.5
Adjusted polling average 48.1 42.8 Obama +5.3
State fundamentals 50.5 41.4 Obama +9.1
Now-cast 48.8 42.7 Obama +6.1
Projected vote share ±5.6 52.7 45.7 Obama +7.0
Chance of winning 90% 10%

243 Targetpractice  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:53:17pm

re: #235 Lidane

[Embedded content]

Cue the RWNJ outrage over Ebil Gubmint in 3...2...1...

Yeah, I keep trying to figure out how these "small government" types are suddenly silent on "property rights" when states are using eminent domain as a club to force landowners into giving up their say on whether Keystone will go through their backyards.

244 Mich-again  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:56:09pm

re: #235 Lidane

Keystone is not about getting Canadian oil to American refineries in order to aid American consumers with cheaper gasoline. Keystone is all about getting Canadian oil to the Gulf where it can then be shipped out to global markets. Look at the price difference between crude in the USA and global markets. These prices used to be essentially the same, but now the price difference is about $20 per barrel between markets. The Canadians would rather get the Brent Crude price than the West Texas price. link

245 Gus  Thu, Aug 23, 2012 11:56:45pm

8:55am Friday (CEST) - Time in Norway

246 Gus  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 12:00:51am
247 Mich-again  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 12:06:20am

re: #246 Gus

I have to take back all those things I said about Fjordman never accomplishing anything. After all, he did inspire a mass murderer.

And to think, just a few years ago, I was hanging out in these same threads at LGF calling out poster Fjordman for being a racist whose 10,000 word essays were nothing more than steaming piles of shit, while other posters were defending his opinions.

248 Mich-again  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 12:08:21am

And other posters also called him out too. Thats why he eventaully flounced and left us. Same for Robert Spencer who pretended not to know what Fjordman was all about. Breivik took Fjordman's rhetoric to heart and acted on it.

249 Gus  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 12:11:16am

re: #248 Mich-again

And other posters also called him out too. Thats why he eventaully flounced and left us. Same for Robert Spencer who pretended not to know what Fjordman was all about. Breivik took Fjordman's rhetoric to heart and acted on it.

Believe it or not he's doing stuff for Front Page it seems.

250 Mich-again  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 12:12:05am

re: #249 Gus

Believe it or not he's doing stuff for Front Page it seems.

Fjordman or Spencer? Not that there is a lick of difference...

251 Gus  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 12:13:04am

re: #250 Mich-again

Fjordman or Spencer? Not that there is a lick of difference...

Fjordman

252 Gus  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 12:15:22am

I'll find out tomorrow. Later...

253 Mich-again  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 12:22:05am

re: #251 Gus

Fjordman

wow. I can't imagine any organization would hire a mass murderer's muse as a contributor.

Really, I have read enough of Fjordman's bullshit to know he is ignorant of human nature and how to treat other people. He has just as sick of a mind as Breivik. Unsophisticated readers can become enamored with Fjordman's intellectual sounding prose and grasp of history but it is all a ruse. Fjordman represents the European white supremacist movement.

254 freetoken  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 12:33:22am

Dvorak's "Requiem" is written in two parts, of which I prefer the first. Here is the last movement of which, "Lacrimosa":

255 freetoken  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 12:34:05am

Yeah, I know... long hair stuff. But the ending of that movement is, well, divine.

256 Targetpractice  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 12:41:24am

Don't know which email I just read I found more disturbing, the one from some group called "We Stand With Israel" telling me that Iran will have a nuclear bomb by Oct 1st...or that Microsoft is bringing Internet Exploder to the XBox.

257 AK-47%  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 12:53:14am

re: #255 freetoken

Yeah, I know... long hair stuff. But the ending of that movement is, well, divine.

Got any Mahler on tap? It don't come much hairier than that...

258 researchok  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 1:06:37am

Morning, all

259 freetoken  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 1:11:07am

re: #257 Expand Your Ground

Mahler isn't my thing... but here's something to listen to:

260 researchok  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 1:16:01am

re: #254 freetoken

I shall take that as my 'welcome back'

TY

Really, really good. Great choice.

261 researchok  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 1:23:03am

re: #259 freetoken

My vote this AM goes to the Dvorak

I am predisposed to Mozart, although some of the Von Suppe operettas while light, are pretty good (poet and peasant, pique dame, etc)

262 Decatur Deb  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 1:28:25am

re: #41 SanFranciscoZionist

Mitt's never even FINISHED the Tour de France.

He finished his tour de France, passed on a tour de 'Nam.

263 Targetpractice  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 1:35:25am

Norway declares Breivik sane in mass murder trial

OSLO (Reuters) - A Norwegian court found Anders Behring Breivik sane on Friday in the murder of 77 people in a gun and bomb massacre last year, sending him to jail for at least 21 years and dismissing the prosecution's request for an insane verdict.

Breivik, who has admitted detonating a fertilizer bomb outside government headquarters, killing eight, before gunning down 69 at the ruling party's summer youth camp, faces the possibility of indefinite extensions to his sentence.

Many survivors and victims' families wanted a sane verdict, saying the opposite would diminish his responsibility for the attacks.

Breivik said he targeted the ruling centre-left Labour Party for its support of Muslim immigration. He dismissed being called a child murderer, arguing that his victims, some as young as 14, were brainwashed activists whose support for multiculturalism threatened to adulterate pure Norwegian blood.

Breivik himself had argued for the sane verdict as he wanted the attack to be seen as a political statement.

264 AK-47%  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 1:39:52am

re: #263 Targetpractice

Norway declares Breivik sane in mass murder trial

The man is sane, only his actions were insane. That is the distinction.

265 Targetpractice  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 1:41:18am

re: #264 Expand Your Ground

The man is sane, only his actions were insane. That is the distinction.

Agreed. Some of the worst horrors in history have been committed by men who knew exactly what they were doing. This was one of them.

266 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 2:06:30am

So late to this party as I wait for the 5AM update on Isaac. (who may have thrown the entire NHC a huge curveball tonight)

The most interesting thing is, the USADA doesn't have the ability to strip Lance Armstrong of his titles, that belongs to the UCI. Now while the USADA thinks they can force the UCI to actually strip Armstrong, the UCI doesn't have to follow their recommendations, and there is quite a bit of friction between the two groups.

In fact the UCI was a party to Lance Armstrongs Lawsuit against the USADA (which was dismissed) arguing that the USADA had no jurisdiction over Armstrong, and in particular, the Tour.

Not only is the USADA working to strip Armstrong of all his titles, but they're also working to strip him of his Olympic Bronze Medal.

I'd be curious to see what evidence they have that they feel shows Armstrong doped every single year he was on the Tour. That's a lot of years and a lot of time. Considering some of the big names caught, and that previous investigations against Lance Armstrong failed to show anything, the only two people named were both people caught doping, and the emails aren't what you'd call smoking gun type of emails. It'd get laughed out of a court in a civil suit, but it's not a civil suit, it's arbitration, so normal rules of evidence don't apply anymore.

I think Armstrong is moving the fight to the UCI, and it will be interesting to see if the UCI opts to ignore the USADA. If the UCI strips Armstrong, well. Then a lot of the second place people have been caught doping at some point in their career.

267 AK-47%  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 2:25:03am

There was a time when it was absolutely no big deal for cyclists to be full of cocaine, pernod or amphetamines: it was just expected of them under the gruelling conditions of the races.

268 Marek Bage  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 2:38:35am

"Bad news for cycling fans".
Really?
I would have thought this was excellent news for cycling fans and bad news for cheating sons of bitches.

Cheers.

269 Varek Raith  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 2:46:23am

re: #268 Marek Bage

"Bad news for cycling fans".
Really?
I would have thought this was excellent news for cycling fans and bad news for cheating sons of bitches.

Cheers.

I'd agree with you if they showed any shred of evidence.
They haven't.

270 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 2:54:08am

Is this true?
[Link: www.nationalreview.com...]
And good morning honcos.

271 AK-47%  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 2:59:53am

re: #270 Cannadian Club Akbar

Is this true?
[Link: www.nationalreview.com...]
And good morning honcos.

Does not matter if it is illegal. The question is: is this the sort of person we want in charge of the entire tax system?

272 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 3:01:28am

re: #271 Expand Your Ground

Does not matter if it is illegal. The question is: is this the sort of person we want in charge of the entire tax system?

K. But it does matter if a someone is accusing someone of something and doing it themselves.

273 Varek Raith  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 3:03:47am

re: #270 Cannadian Club Akbar

Is this true?
[Link: www.nationalreview.com...]
And good morning honcos.

Romney does everything possible to legally avoid taxes.

274 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 3:04:04am

Sorry Liberals, this turns out to be nothing to worry about. YET!!! BWAHAHAHA!!!!
Image: AL0912W5.gif

275 AK-47%  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 3:04:57am

re: #272 Cannadian Club Akbar

K. But it does matter if a someone is accusing someone of something and doing it themselves.

There is certainly a large of hypocrisy, but that is almost a red herring in this case: as far as I know, nobody associated with Gawker Media is running for office.

They are doing what Romney and Bain did: taking advantage of legal structures to maximize profits. But Romney is running for office and will be responsible for that very sytem. There is a big difference.

276 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 3:05:17am

re: #273 Varek Raith

Romney does everything possible to legally avoid taxes.

So blame the politicians. I'm sure he has lawyers who do his taxes. Unlike our Treasury Secretary.

277 Varek Raith  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 3:05:51am

re: #276 Cannadian Club Akbar

So blame the politicians. I'm sure he has lawyers who do his taxes. Unlike our Treasury Secretary.

I blame their lack of patriotism.
;)

278 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 3:06:30am

re: #277 Varek Raith

I blame their lack of patriotism.
;)

RED BASTARDS!!!!:)

279 AK-47%  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 3:09:10am

re: #273 Varek Raith

Romney does everything possible to legally avoid taxes.

There is nothing wrong with doing that as a businessman: I would do it too if I earned enough.

But it is a different matter if you are runing for office, especially an office that puts you in charge of maintaining and shaping the tax code.

280 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 3:11:21am

re: #279 Expand Your Ground

There is nothing wrong with doing that as a businessman: I would do it too if I earned enough.

But it is a different matter if you are runing for office, especially an office that puts you in charge of maintaining and shaping the tax code.

You mean like Charlie Rangel? Way and Mean committee?

281 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 3:12:31am

re: #280 Cannadian Club Akbar

Ways=pimf

282 Varek Raith  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 3:14:44am

Putting money before country.

PATRIOTISM!

283 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 3:15:14am

Can we hold off on politics? This is the AM. Let's take it easy.

284 Varek Raith  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 3:16:26am

re: #283 Cannadian Club Akbar

Can we hold off on politics? This is the AM. Let's take it easy.

Ok.
Nats rule!

285 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 3:17:43am

re: #283 Cannadian Club Akbar

Can we hold off on politics? This is the AM. Let's take it easy.

I did an interview for a job with a LARGE restaurant chain. The interview person asked why I wasn't trying for management. (management job would be about $40K plus bonus of around $10K)
Last night I was offered a job for $8/hr.
Hmm....

286 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 3:18:19am

re: #284 Varek Raith

Ok.
Nats rule!

I HATE YOU!!!! (my Rays are 2.5 games out)

287 AK-47%  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 3:19:02am

re: #280 Cannadian Club Akbar

You mean like Charlie Rangel? Way and Mean committee?

Yes, my dear MBF. And especially the Chief Executive.

288 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 3:20:13am

re: #287 Expand Your Ground

Yes, my dear MBF. And especially the Chief Executive.

He followed the law.

289 AK-47%  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 3:25:06am

re: #288 Cannadian Club Akbar

He followed the law.

Please note the distinction, We are all expected to obey laws: Presidents and congresspeople are expected to shape and sign them.

290 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 3:35:01am

re: #289 Expand Your Ground

Please note the distinction, We are all expected to obey laws: Presidents and congresspeople are expected to shape and sign them.

Well, when people bitch about Mittens and the fact that he followed the law and payed 13% and back up Obama and the fact that he paid 25% kinda makes me chortle. I'm betting Mittens still paid, in cash, more money.

291 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 3:40:06am

BTW, Varek, I live close to you now.

292 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 3:43:37am

My friend "fixed" my computer the other day. Now it runs like shit.

293 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 3:47:42am

re: #292 Cannadian Club Akbar

My friend "fixed" my computer the other day. Now it runs like shit.

I have a hard time believing that

oh, not that your computer now runs like shit after someone "fixed" it

That you have a 'friend" !!!

294 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 3:48:07am

re: #284 Varek Raith

re: #291 Cannadian Club Akbar

BTW, Varek, I live close to you now.

be afraid

be VERY afraid!!!

295 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 3:49:43am

Today is the 20th anniversary of Hurricane Andrew. I was driving home from Orlando and couldn't find a hotel room to save my life.

296 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 3:50:31am

re: #293 sattv4u2

I never liked you....
/

297 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 3:50:51am

re: #296 Cannadian Club Akbar

I never liked you....
/

hell, me either!

wait ,, what !?!?

298 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 3:52:40am

re: #279 Expand Your Ground

There is nothing wrong with doing that as a businessman: I would do it too if I earned enough.

But it is a different matter if you are runing for office, especially an office that puts you in charge of maintaining and shaping the tax code.

So by your theory there was nothing wrong with what Romney has done, because those tax "loopholes" he used were as a private citizen/ businessman.

299 AK-47%  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 3:53:32am

re: #290 Cannadian Club Akbar

Well, when people bitch about Mittens and the fact that he followed the law and payed 13% and back up Obama and the fact that he paid 25% kinda makes me chortle. I'm betting Mittens still paid, in cash, more money.

These arguments are all rather a red herring. It is not about absolute sums, or whether it was legal or even immoral.

The question is, do we like the current tax system? Do we want to elect someone who is more likely to continue to shape it to benefit large investors at the expense of the middle class?

If you have no problem with that, then vote Mitt...he has done nothing illegal, and nothing that lots of other people have not done.

300 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 3:55:06am

re: #299 Expand Your Ground

The politicians won't shape the tax code if it means they will pay more. That's why I hate most of them. Do as I say, yada, yada, yada.....

301 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 3:57:53am
302 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 4:00:54am

re: #299 Expand Your Ground

No

The "red herring" is all the gnashing and wailing that Mitt (and other 'rich" people") paid "less" in taxes than Joe Blue Collar

Both the 'rich" person and Joe Blue Collar followed the existing laws. It just makes for a better sound bite saying "MITT PAID LESS THAN HIS SECRETARY"

But you are right in one aspect. It's not about "absolute sums", because if those numbers were released it would show the millions that Mitt (and others) pay so that is MORE taxes than Joe Blue Collar

303 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 4:01:06am

re: #301 Cannadian Club Akbar

AWESOME!!!
Image: 187737main_AndrewSequence_hg.jpg

Andrew Has Three Eyes!

304 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 4:04:21am

re: #302 sattv4u2

Obama is shooting for the "class warfare" angle. And anyone who tries to say different is either in denial or full of shit.

305 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 4:05:20am

re: #303 sattv4u2

Andrew Has Three Eyes!

My girlfriend has breast on her back. It's not attractive but she's one hell of a dancer.
/

306 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 4:05:44am

re: #305 Cannadian Club Akbar

My girlfriend has breast on her back. It's not attractive but she's one hell of a SLOW dancer.
/

ftfy

307 AK-47%  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 4:05:44am

Again...do we like this tax code and do we want to see more money being invested in the Cayman Islands?

In the end, we the people are responsible for the tax code, as we elected the people who put it into place.

Are we going to elect someone who is likely to skew it even more in favor of large investors and against the middle class?

308 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 4:07:31am

re: #307 Expand Your Ground

Again...do we like this tax code and do we want to see more money being invested in the Cayman Islands?

In the end, we are responsible for the tax code, we elected the people who put it into place.

Are we going to elect someone who is likely to skew it even more in favor of large investors and against the middle class?

No. We should vote for the people who think it is their money and therefore it is their right to take it and give it away.

309 AK-47%  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 4:09:19am

re: #304 Cannadian Club Akbar

Obama is shooting for the "class warfare" angle. And anyone who tries to say different is either in denial or full of shit.

Define it as you wish: standing up for one's interests can be seen as warfare, or it can be legitimate self-defense.

310 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 4:10:40am

re: #307 Expand Your Ground

The more the tax code punishes achievement the more money will be invested in havens like the Caymans

311 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 4:11:26am

re: #309 Expand Your Ground

Define it as you wish: standing up for one's interests can be seen as warfare, or it can be legitimate self-defense.

The phrase you are looking for is self interest. Obama cares about...Obama.

312 AK-47%  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 4:12:24am

re: #308 Cannadian Club Akbar

No. We should vote for the people who think it is their money and therefore it is their right to take it and give it away.

In response to your Right-Wing Talking Point, I offer a LWTP: we are just asking people to pay their fair share of the costs of maintaining the legal, administrative, educational and physical infrastructure that allows them to make their fortunes.

And yes we built that. All of us together.

313 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 4:13:58am

re: #312 Expand Your Ground

we are just asking people to pay their fair share

Okay

so what is "their fair share"?

20%? 25?? 40??? 50 ???

What percentage of the total burden should the top 10% pay??

314 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 4:14:34am

re: #313 sattv4u2

we are just asking people to pay their fair share

Okay

so what is "their fair share"?

20%? 25?? 40??? 50 ???

What percentage of the total burden should the top 10% pay??

75%. Then State taxes.

315 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 4:15:23am

re: #314 Cannadian Club Akbar

75%. Then State taxes.

Caymans, here I come!

316 Targetpractice  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 4:16:53am

So, is there an ideal tax rate?

317 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 4:17:46am

re: #315 sattv4u2

Caymans, here I come!

A friend's father (from many years ago) embezzled a shitload of cash from the bank he ran. He hauled ass to the Caymans because at the time there was no extradition treaty.

318 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 4:18:10am

re: #316 Targetpractice

So, is there an ideal tax rate?

Probably not (if you're talking about a flat rate)

Someone will always complain

319 Mocking Jay  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 4:18:31am

re: #313 sattv4u2

we are just asking people to pay their fair share

Okay

so what is "their fair share"?

20%? 25?? 40??? 50 ???

What percentage of the total burden should the top 10% pay??

Oh you know damn well how progressive tax rates work.

320 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 4:18:35am

re: #316 Targetpractice

So, is there an ideal tax rate?

100% is you are a Dem, 0% if you are a Repub. This post has cost you $39.95.
/

321 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 4:18:54am

re: #319 Mocking Jay

Oh you know damn well how progressive tax rates work.

yes I do

But that wasn't the question

322 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 4:19:32am

re: #319 Mocking Jay

Oh you know damn well how progressive tax rates work.

Then why don't politicians peg the tax rate to inflation?

323 Targetpractice  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 4:20:34am

re: #318 sattv4u2

Probably not (if you're talking about a flat rate)

Someone will always complain

Well, I figured there must be an ideal rate, since we keep getting told that taxes are too high and that's why people are looking for ways to avoid paying them.

324 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 4:21:32am

re: #323 Targetpractice

Well, I figured there must be an ideal rate, since we keep getting told that taxes are too high and that's why people are looking for ways to avoid paying them.

Politicians write in the loopholes when writing them. That's why they suck.

325 Targetpractice  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 4:22:26am

re: #324 Cannadian Club Akbar

Politicians write in the loopholes when writing them. That's why they suck.

Then perhaps we might consider closing the loopholes, doing away with the various deductions and credits, and getting everybody paying the actual tax rate before we start discussing how high taxes should be?

326 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 4:22:40am

TAX BREAKS!!!!
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

327 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 4:24:07am

re: #325 Targetpractice

Then perhaps we might consider closing the loopholes, doing away with the various deductions and credits, and getting everybody paying the actual tax rate before we start discussing how high taxes should be?

I have heard (I have nothing to back this up at this time) that the higher the tax rates go, the more loopholes there are.

328 Targetpractice  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 4:25:50am

re: #327 Cannadian Club Akbar

I have heard (I have nothing to back this up at this time) that the higher the tax rates go, the more loopholes there are.

Because there's always going to be politicians who, either out of self-interest or political aspirations (but I repeat myself), will dream up new ways for those higher up the ladder to avoid paying taxes.

329 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 4:27:06am

re: #328 Targetpractice

Because there's always going to be politicians who, either out of self-interest or political aspirations (but I repeat myself), will dream up new ways for those higher up the ladder to avoid paying taxes.

It takes 218 of them in the House. IIRC.

330 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 4:28:52am

re: #328 Targetpractice

Because there's always going to be politicians who, either out of self-interest or political aspirations (but I repeat myself), will dream up new ways for those higher up the ladder to avoid paying taxes.

Cuts both ways

they also make "loopholes" where those on the lower end avoid paying taxes (see EITC)
[Link: www.irs.gov...]
EITC, the earned income tax credit is a benefit for certain people who work and have low to moderate wages. A tax credit means more money in your pocket. It reduces the amount of tax you owe and may also give you a refund.

Vote buying is a candle lit at both ends !

331 Targetpractice  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 4:30:09am

re: #330 sattv4u2

Cuts both ways

they also make "loopholes" where those on the lower end avoid paying taxes (see EITC)
[Link: www.irs.gov...]
EITC, the earned income tax credit is a benefit for certain people who work and have low to moderate wages. A tax credit means more money in your pocket. It reduces the amount of tax you owe and may also give you a refund.

Vote buying is a candle lit at both ends !

Indeed, you have a situation where half of Congress is writing laws to help the rich and half writing them to help the poor. And never shall the twain meet.

332 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 4:30:31am

re: #330 sattv4u2

I got the EITC 2 years ago. My refund went from $300 to over $1000 when I did my Turbo Tax. Thanks, AMERICA!!!

333 AK-47%  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 4:31:29am

re: #313 sattv4u2

we are just asking people to pay their fair share

Okay

so what is "their fair share"?

20%? 25?? 40??? 50 ???

What percentage of the total burden should the top 10% pay??

That is one of the key questions that this election is about. I do think it shoule be a bit more than 13%, and certainly not 1% as the Ryan Plan calls for...

334 AK-47%  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 4:32:30am

I gotta duck out of the RWTP's flying hard and heavy and go earn some tax-free income...

Shame on me.

335 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 4:33:04am

re: #331 Targetpractice

Indeed, you have a situation where half of Congress is writing laws to help the rich and half writing them to help the poor. And never shall the twain meet.

This is why I hate all of them. Find me an honest poli and I'll vote for them.

336 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 4:33:06am

re: #334 Expand Your Ground

I gotta duck out of the RWTP's flying hard and heavy and go earn some tax-free income...

Shame on me.

Taking your LWTP's with you?

337 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 4:33:58am

re: #334 Expand Your Ground

I gotta duck out of the RWTP's flying hard and heavy and go earn some tax-free income...

Shame on me.

Work hard. Other people are depending on it!!!
/RWTP!!!!

338 Targetpractice  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 4:34:01am

re: #335 Cannadian Club Akbar

This is why I hate all of them. Find me an honest poli and I'll vote for them.

An honest politician? Isn't that an oxymoron?

339 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 4:34:32am

re: #333 Expand Your Ground

That is one of the key questions that this election is about. I do think it shoule be a bit more than 13%, and certainly not 1% as the Ryan Plan calls for...

Do you not think that differnt types of income shouldn't be treated differently?

340 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 4:34:40am

re: #338 Targetpractice

An honest politician? Isn't that an oxymoron?

I like a few. None in a power position. sigh....

341 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 4:37:42am

re: #340 Cannadian Club Akbar

I like a few. None in a power position. sigh....

Florida's next gubner (if I have anything to do with it)
[Link: www.freshfromflorida.com...]

342 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 4:38:52am

re: #340 Cannadian Club Akbar

I like a few. None in a power position. sigh....

DING DING DING

We have a winner!!!

i'm sure many run with all good intentions, but somehow once inside that beltway something changes them.

343 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 4:42:32am

re: #342 sattv4u2

DING DING DING

We have a winner!!!

i'm sure many run with all good intentions, but somehow once inside that beltway something changes them.

That would be the press. Those voted in bow to the pressure of being in DC and forget why they are there. Now, don't get me wrong. You must play te give and take game, but don't sell out your values (either side) to be popular.

344 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 4:45:03am

DICK CHENEY FOR PRESIDENT!! LET'S GET SHIT DONE!!!

345 chandsolo  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 4:47:45am

re: #344 Cannadian Club Akbar

DICK CHENEY FOR PRESIDENT!! LET'S GET SHIT DONE!!!

Right on!
Shoot an Old Guy in the Face/Go Fuck Yourself 2012!

346 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 4:49:21am

re: #345 chan

Right on!
Shoot an Old Guy in the Face/Go Fuck Yourself 2012!

Not sure that will fit on a sign, but OK!!!!

347 chandsolo  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 4:55:05am

re: #346 Cannadian Club Akbar

Not sure that will fit on a sign, but OK!!!!

Well if it will help the printer out, we could replace 'Shoot an Old Guy in the Face' with 'Sneer'

348 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 4:56:14am

INTEGRITY!!!!
A failed Democratic congressional candidate whose campaign is under federal grand jury investigation abruptly amended his financial disclosures to show he loaned himself nearly $53,000 more than he originally reported.
...
The big cash payments drew the attention of the FBI, which began examining the working-class hotel employee, a political unknown who now claims to have dropped about $64,000 of his own money in his Aug. 14 primary loss.

ROOKIE!!!!
[Link: www.tampabay.com...]

349 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 4:57:17am

re: #347 chan

Well if it will help the printer out, we could replace 'Shoot an Old Guy in the Face' with 'Sneer'

I was thinking "Vote For Darth Vader. He Has Cookies".

350 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 4:59:22am

Tropical update in 2 minutes!!!

351 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 5:03:13am

re: #350 Cannadian Club Akbar

Tropical update in 2 minutes!!!

Sorry to all those who hoped for a hit by Isaac. (mostly the press)
[Link: www.nhc.noaa.gov...]
But, hey, it's early.
/

352 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 5:06:59am

re: #351 Cannadian Club Akbar

Sorry to all those who hoped for a hit by Isaac. (mostly the press)
[Link: www.nhc.noaa.gov...]
But, hey, it's early.
/

PLYWOOD FOR SALE ,,, GET YER PLYWOOD HERE,,,

353 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 5:08:06am

re: #352 sattv4u2

PLYWOOD FOR SALE ,,, GET YER PLYWOOD HERE,,,

Which begs the question,, what did "you" do with the plywood you bought LAST year when a hurricane was about to hit !!!

354 Eventual Carrion  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 5:09:22am

re: #173 dragonath

I freebase the charred remains of Sarah Palin votive candles.

Not me anymore. That last time when I work up naked in the caribou pen at the zoo was enough for me.

355 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 5:11:09am

re: #353 sattv4u2

Which begs the question,, what did "you" do with the plywood you bought LAST year when a hurricane was about to hit !!!

No hurricanes for me last year. BUT, you can get the leftover plywood and my entire house on the courthouse steps Saturday morning. What an awesome economy we have!!!

356 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 5:11:32am

re: #355 Cannadian Club Akbar

No hurricanes for me last year. BUT, you can get the leftover plywood and my entire house on the courthouse steps Saturday morning. What an awesome economy we have!!!

:(

357 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 5:13:25am

re: #356 sattv4u2

:(

It's not my fault. I blame Bush.
/

358 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 5:15:52am

re: #357 Cannadian Club Akbar

It's not my fault. I blame Bush.
/

get with the times

It was Romneys fault due to Bain!!

359 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 5:17:54am

re: #358 sattv4u2

get with the times

It was Romneys fault due to Bain!!

BAIN BAIN BAIN!!!

360 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 5:31:59am

My radio just said that whores strippers in Tampa make around 65K a year. They will prolly make $3K for the week the RNC is here.

361 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 5:35:27am

re: #360 Cannadian Club Akbar

My radio just said that whores strippers in Tampa make around 65K a year. They will prolly make $3K for the week the RNC is here.

Average, maybe (although that sounds low to me)

The Elite ones will make at least that a night

(not that I would know anything about that!!)

362 kirkspencer  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 5:36:18am

re: #339 sattv4u2

Do you not think that differnt types of income shouldn't be treated differently?

No. Not even capital gains.

363 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 5:43:34am

re: #362 kirkspencer

No. Not even capital gains.

Just asking, don't get me wrong. Got a number? (percentage)

364 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 5:52:56am

re: #363 Cannadian Club Akbar

Just asking, don't get me wrong. Got a number? (percentage)

ELEVENTY!!!!

365 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 5:53:44am

re: #364 sattv4u2

ELEVENTY!!!!

Gus, is that you?
///

366 Eventual Carrion  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 5:56:26am

re: #315 sattv4u2

Caymans, here I come!

Then stay the fuck off my roads

367 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 5:57:39am

re: #366 RayFerd

Then stay the fuck off my roads

Wow. You must be rich.

368 kirkspencer  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 6:03:15am

re: #363 Cannadian Club Akbar

Just asking, don't get me wrong. Got a number? (percentage)

actually, I was answering SATV4U2's question of whether different types of income should be taxed differently.

I do feel that a progressive distribution is correct - that higher incomes should pay a greater proportion of the whole.

I've long proposed the semi-serious "simple tax", where everybody pays 50% of their net income -- income after expenses. More seriously, there's a lot of study that shows that if you're under roughly 150% of the federal poverty limit (FPL) you can't save because everything goes to what I call "roof and table". There are several additional elements that go into that, of course, but the concept is there: you need shelter, you need food, you need trips to the doctor, you need a means of contacting and being contacted by employers, you need something for mental stimulation, etc.

It's not till you cross the ~200% FPL that you can not only do a little saving but actually invest (or spend on large frivolities: regular trips to disney world instead of once in a lifetime for example).

So what you're doing by taking money from everyone under 200% FPL is cutting into their future, not their comfort. Sadly, these days 200% FPL is approximately the median household income (MHI) of the US; it used to be less. Anyway, this means that 50% of the US population would pay federal income taxes from their future or their roof and table.

A clarification. By future I mean their ability to have roof and table after they no longer have an income.

Over 200% of FPL, or above the MHI, taxes are cutting more into comfort; sustaining the lifestyle to which they're accustomed. Yes, that level pays more for roof and table, more for their future. They are also paying significantly more into their comfort - and as a proportion of their income, the comfort grows a lot as the income increases.

Quite frankly, I think anyone earning over a million a year should be paying 90% of what they earn over that million into taxes, and that anything not covered by that amount should be divided on a proportional basis among everyone earning over 200% of the FPL -- which would probably, based on our past, become less than the MHI.

As to my response to satty, I don't think people should get tax breaks (capital gains) for investing. Investments pay better than savings, especially after inflation is taken into effect. Giving a tax break merely rewards what those who had the ability would do already.

369 kirkspencer  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 6:04:04am

and gotta go for an hour or so. I'll check back on this to respond.

370 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 6:07:16am

re: #368 kirkspencer

I certainly respect your honesty.:)

371 Interesting Times  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 6:10:05am
372 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 6:15:27am

Holy shit!! Just looked up the price for softball mitts. Over $125!! I don't think so, sparky.

373 Varek Raith  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 6:23:28am

re: #291 Cannadian Club Akbar

BTW, Varek, I live close to you now.

Where at?

374 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 6:25:51am

re: #373 Varek Raith

Where at?

I'm right behind you!! BWHAHAHAHA!! (or Maryland)

375 Varek Raith  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 6:27:45am

re: #374 Cannadian Club Akbar

I'm right behind you!! BWHAHAHAHA!! (or Maryland)

Ah, Maryland.
3 state cops for every tenth of a mile.

376 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 6:29:42am

Good morning lizards!

377 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 6:30:45am

re: #375 Varek Raith

Ah, Maryland.
3 state cops for every tenth of a mile.

Haven't seen that yet. But then again, I take the bus.:)

378 Targetpractice  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 6:31:46am

re: #376 NJDhockeyfan

Good morning lizards!

Morning? What madness is this?!

//

379 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 6:32:57am

re: #378 Targetpractice

Morning? What madness is this?!

//

Morning is in between putting down your last beer and picking up your first. Hope this helps.
/

380 Targetpractice  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 6:34:32am

re: #379 Cannadian Club Akbar

Morning is in between putting down your last beer and picking up your first. Hope this helps.
/

Ah, right, I'd forgotten. Foul state of affairs it is.

/

381 Targetpractice  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 6:38:42am

Oh yegods, not another one:

Several people shot outside Empire State Building

NEW YORK (AP) — Fire officials say several people have been shot outside the Empire State Building.

A fire department spokesman says it received a call about the shooting just after at 9 a.m. Friday and that emergency units were on the scene within minutes.

The spokesman had no information about how many people were wounded or their conditions.

The shooting occurred at 34th Street and Fifth Avenue.

382 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 6:41:06am

re: #381 Targetpractice

Oh yegods, not another one:

Several people shot outside Empire State Building

UPDATE: NEW YORK (AP) — New York City officials say several people have been shot outside the Empire State Building and that the gunman is dead.

City police say three or four civilians have been wounded in the Friday morning shooting and that the shooter is dead.

383 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 6:42:30am

re: #381 Targetpractice

Oh yegods, not another one:

Several people shot outside Empire State Building

I HATE to say this. This will become more of a political football than (fake) sympathy for the victims and their families.

384 Targetpractice  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 6:46:21am

re: #383 Cannadian Club Akbar

I HATE to say this. This will become more of a political football than (fake) sympathy for the victims and their families.

Unfortunately we as a country have apparently decided that shootings like this are something we're going to have to live with.

385 Obdicut  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 6:46:46am

re: #382 Learned Mother of Zion

I picked the right weekend to be out of town.

Hope nobody dies.

386 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 6:47:22am

re: #385 Obdicut

I picked the right weekend to be out of town.

Hope nobody dies.

The shooter is dead.

387 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 6:47:53am

re: #386 Learned Mother of Zion

The shooter is dead.

Good. Do it twice.

388 Destro  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 6:47:58am

Should I pretend like every other fan of Lance Armstrong that I have seen his races even though I have not watched one Tour De France my entire life?

389 Interesting Times  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 6:49:31am
390 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 6:49:53am

re: #388 Destro

Should I pretend like every other fan of Lance Armstrong that I have seen his races even though I have not watched one Tour De France my entire life?

Just hate the French like everyone else.
/half

391 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 6:50:08am

Reuters... 2 dead

Aug 24 (Reuters) - Two people have been killed and at least eight others were wounded in a shooting outside of the Empire State Building in New York City on Friday, according to a New York police source.

One of the dead was the shooter, the source said, adding that there was no apparent link to terrorism.

392 Obdicut  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 6:50:08am

re: #386 Learned Mother of Zion

The shooter is dead.

Hope nobody else dies, then.
Well shit.

And I hope no tourists were wounded. Not that I want New Yorkers to be, it's just shitty to think of people coming to NYC for fun and vacation and winding up getting shot.

393 Obdicut  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 6:51:03am

re: #388 Destro

Should I pretend like every other fan of Lance Armstrong that I have seen his races even though I have not watched one Tour De France my entire life?

Um, are you proposing that nobody actually watches the Tour De France?

Because a lot of people watch the Tour De France.

394 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 6:51:26am

re: #390 Cannadian Club Akbar

Just hate the French like everyone else.
/half

Why not, they hate us.
//

395 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 6:52:17am

re: #394 NJDhockeyfan

Why not, they hate us.
//

Freedom Fries!!
/gus

396 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 6:53:08am

My daughter works in midtown but she's over on 9th Ave.

397 lawhawk  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 6:53:30am

re: #381 Targetpractice


Seriously - WTF

It may have been a police involved shooting, but it may stem from an individual who was recently fired:

Some media are reporting up to eight victims in the shooting but as 9:39 a.m. the FDNY was still evaluating and would not release a number. The shooting began just after 9 a.m. As of 9:44 a.m. It is coming over the news scanner that the perp may be a recently fired worker who returned.

The gunman is confirmed dead.

As many as eight may have been wounded.

[Link: newyork.cbslocal.com...]

The Post reports at least one person killed besides shooter; 10 injured.

Oh, and in a related note - 19 people were shot in the last 12 hours out in Chicago.

398 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 6:55:34am

re: #397 lawhawk

Nice job, Rahm. You suck. We need to stop occupying Chicago!!!
/why is this here?

399 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 6:58:45am

re: #397 lawhawk

There was a shooting near Yankee Stadium yesterday...

Bronx street vendor dressed in pinstripe suit shoots 2, busted by Supreme Court officers on lunch break

A man selling newspapers and books on the corner of Gerard Ave. and 161st street was turned into "Swiss Cheese" as one eyewitness said after he was shot many times.

A Bronx street vendor in a pinstripe suit and derby hat shot two competitors Thursday outside Yankee Stadium, where witnesses claim a sidewalk turf war had been brewing.

The shoot-’em-up on Gerard Ave. and E. 161st St. erupted at 1:45 p.m. when the nattily dressed African oil salesman armed with a .357 Magnum went berserk.

A 41-year-old man peddling newspapers and magazines was shot multiple times, and a 60-year-old man selling bottled water was hit once during the barrage, which sent patrons and other vendors diving for cover.

The gunman, Horace Coleman, 52, tried to run from the scene but was quickly captured by four officers from nearby Bronx Supreme Court, who were on their lunch break, sources and officials said..

...Cops did not reveal a motive, but vendors said there’s been a war going on over the best sidewalk turf.

400 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 6:59:48am

re: #398 Cannadian Club Akbar

Nice job, Rahm. You suck. We need to stop occupying Chicago!!!
/why is this here?

When there are 2000 killed in a war zone but 5000 killed in a city since 2001, we have a problem. But by all means, keep it impossible for people to defend themselves.

401 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 7:00:48am

re: #400 Cannadian Club Akbar

When there are 2000 killed in a war zone but 5000 killed in a city since 2001, we have a problem. But by all means, keep it impossible for people to defend themselves.

[Link: www.inquisitr.com...]

402 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 7:00:54am

re: #398 Cannadian Club Akbar

Nice job, Rahm. You suck. We need to stop occupying Chicago!!!
/why is this here?

Don't worry...he's got the racist anti-Semite hate preacher Louis Farrakhan on the job.

//

403 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 7:02:04am

re: #402 NJDhockeyfan

Don't worry...he's got the racist anti-Semite hate preacher Louis Farrakhan on the job.

//

I don't have enough hate in me for both of them. Can you spot me some until Tuesday?
/

404 Obdicut  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 7:04:21am

re: #402 NJDhockeyfan

I'm sorry, what's the connection between Rahm and Farrakhan?

Or was that just a completely surreal joke that makes no sense on any level?

405 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 7:08:39am

re: #404 Obdicut

I'm sorry, what's the connection between Rahm and Farrakhan?

Or was that just a completely surreal joke that makes no sense on any level?

Chicago Mayor and former White House Chief of Staff to President Barack Obama, Rahm Emanuel, has invited the controversial Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan to help in the city’s efforts to address the epidemic of crime that has engulfed it.
[Link: thenewamerican.com...]

406 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 7:09:23am

re: #404 Obdicut

I'm sorry, what's the connection between Rahm and Farrakhan?

Or was that just a completely surreal joke that makes no sense on any level?

Rham hired him to come to Chicago and try to calm down the violence.

407 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 7:10:08am

re: #406 NJDhockeyfan

Rham hired him to come to Chicago and try to calm down the violence.

That seems to be working. Not.

408 Gus  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 7:11:28am

re: #405 Cannadian Club Akbar

Chicago Mayor and former White House Chief of Staff to President Barack Obama, Rahm Emanuel, has invited the controversial Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan to help in the city’s efforts to address the epidemic of crime that has engulfed it.
[Link: thenewamerican.com...]

Oy. I imagine you just clicked on some link from Google but that's a JBS rag.

409 Obdicut  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 7:11:34am

re: #405 Cannadian Club Akbar

Ah, thanks. It'd be nice to see Farakkhan do some good in that regard.

It was always depressing meeting the dudes in his organization because they were almost all good-hearted guys trying to do good stuff in the community. And a lot of what he preaches is actually good for that-- abstaining from alcohol and drugs, for example, and having nothing to do with the drug trade in any regard.

The problem is him being an anti-semitic, racist, power-hungry, corrupt piece of crap.

But, sad as it is, he still has a lot of influence, and probably has reduced the amount of violence in Chicago already, and can do more.

The fucker.

410 wiffersnapper  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 7:11:46am

NOOOOOO

411 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 7:12:30am

New Anonymous video gives instructions to take over political convention

CHARLOTTE, N.C. - A day after a federal bulletin warned of the threat anarchist extremists will be at the Democratic National Convention, another video from the group Anonymous surfaced online.

Like past videos, this new one, posted late August 22, 2012, features a person wearing a Guy Fawkes mask speaking in a computer generated voice.

The masked messenger gives instructions on how to complete tasks it deems necessary for Anonymous to take over the Republican National Convention in Tampa. People are encouraged to visit web sites and download apps that map out security cameras.

They call for hackers to disable or jam police radios and street camera systems. There are instructions on the best way to knock down security walls erected around safe areas.

The speaker notes "corrupt" corporations are the target and tells potential activists to leave small businesses alone, "unless they have a Mitt Romney sticker in the window. Ha ha ha."

412 Obdicut  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 7:12:40am

re: #406 NJDhockeyfan

Rham hired him to come to Chicago and try to calm down the violence.

And by 'hired', you don't actually mean hired, right?

413 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 7:13:18am

re: #408 Gus

Correct, sir. And let's remember, Chic-Fil-A bad. Farrakhan, good.

414 Gus  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 7:13:38am

re: #413 Cannadian Club Akbar

Correct, sir. And let's remember, Chic-Fil-A bad. Farrakhan, good.

Hmm.

415 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 7:15:33am

re: #414 Gus

Hmm.

It's cool. Rahm has shit under control.

416 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 7:17:20am

Rahm is a fucking idiot.

417 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 7:18:45am

re: #412 Obdicut

And by 'hired', you don't actually mean hired, right?

Welcomed would be the better word. I don't think he's paying him any money, at least I hope not.

418 Obdicut  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 7:19:26am

re: #413 Cannadian Club Akbar

Correct, sir. And let's remember, Chic-Fil-A bad. Farrakhan, good.

Farrakhan isn't good. He's a racist, shit-stirring piece of crap. But in terms of reducing homicide, he is, in fact, 'good', in that he is absolutely against involvement in the drug trade, in crime of any sort, and that is a frequent message in what he preaches and writes.

People are rarely entirely good or bad. The reason why Farrakhan has support in the black community is because he has established a working alternative for poor black men who grow up surrounded by drug violence.

To use an analogy, the Mormon Church is something I think is fucking awful for their support of proposition 8, the systemic racism the engaged in and haven't yet escaped from, etc. But if I were the mayor in a town with a large Mormon population, and the town was undergoing a large spate of homicides, I would certainly engage with the Mormon church to help. Likewise, if I were in the South, I would engage with the Southern Baptists, despite them being very anti-semitic.

419 Gus  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 7:21:53am

re: #416 Cannadian Club Akbar

Rahm is a fucking idiot.

Yeah. People need to wake up and realize that the solution to Chicago's murder rate is right in front of our faces. Just allow its citizens to carry guns or CCW permits. They would probably change things overnight.

420 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 7:25:15am

re: #419 Gus

Yeah. People need to wake up and realize that the solution to Chicago's murder rate is right in front of our faces. Just allow its citizens to carry guns or CCW permits. They would probably change things overnight.

Na. Just tell the thugs and drug dealers to take it into an alley.

Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel has a warning for gangs: Stay away from our kids.

Emanuel--formerly President Barack Obama's White House chief of staff and a Chicago-area congressman--is asking that even gang members show some regard for innocent children, and take their brawls "away to the alley."
[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

421 Obdicut  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 7:25:49am

In the end, Rahm isn't going to be able to do much to help, really. He can put band-aids on, but with the War on Drugs still making drugs the most profitable employment choice-- and often the only employment choice-- in the ghetto, and with our prison system turning out hundreds of thousands of nearly-unemployable, unrehabilitated once-and-future criminals every year, we're not going to see further reduction in crime anytime soon.

We have seen a great reduction in crime since the 80s, which is cool.

422 Gus  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 7:27:00am

re: #420 Cannadian Club Akbar

Na. Just tell the thugs and drug dealers to take it into an alley.

Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel has a warning for gangs: Stay away from our kids.

Emanuel--formerly President Barack Obama's White House chief of staff and a Chicago-area congressman--is asking that even gang members show some regard for innocent children, and take their brawls "away to the alley."
[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

The drug prohibition is likely the main cause. Chicago. Have we forgotten Chicago's legacy already? As if the violent crime of this city is anything new. Chicago had a high murder rate because of alcohol prohibition.

423 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 7:27:59am

re: #422 Gus

The drug prohibition is likely the main cause. Chicago. Have we forgotten Chicago's legacy already? As if the violent crime of this city is anything new. Chicago had a high murder rate because of alcohol prohibition.

Agreed.

424 lawhawk  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 7:32:46am

More details about the shooting outside the ESB. NYPD is looking at several possible motives:

The investigation into the matter was in its earliest stages, and the official said he was unsure of the details and circumstances that led to the shooting.

Two law enforcement officials said investigators have concluded that the shooting had no connection to terrorism and that it appeared to stem from a domestic dispute of some kind. A third said it may have been sparked by a robbery or dispute in the street.

One woman said that she had just come out of a dentist’s office near the Empire State Building when the shooting happened.

“Suddenly I heard two shots or three shots, boom boom boom, and I saw two guys, they go to the floor,” said the woman, who would only give her first name, Monica. “I was really afraid.”

Andrew Pellenberg, 23, and a friend, both from New Jersey, were thinking about visiting the Empire State Building. “We heard 10 to 15 gunshots, and it was all in a 30-second span,” Mr. Pellenberg said.

Several of the victims were treated at the corner of Fifth Avenue and West 34th Street. The wounded were taken to Bellevue Hospital and St. Luke’s Roosevelt, with the more seriously injured going to Bellevue, the official said.

425 Kronocide  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 7:33:45am

re: #400 Cannadian Club Akbar

When there are 2000 killed in a war zone but 5000 killed in a city since 2001, we have a problem. But by all means, keep it impossible for people to defend themselves.

Chicago has many more people than Afghanistan has troops. This is a factoid not to be taken too seriously. Chicago's murder rate is a very big problem but using factoids like this in a serious discussion doesn't help.

It seems to be an offshoot of the liberal/Democrat cities are more violent than conservative cities meme, another factiod that's supposed to mean something (Democrats and liberals suck, see!) but really doesn't.

426 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 7:34:06am
Farrakhan: How many of you are lawyers? Only have one in the house? No wonder we go to jail so much, brother! But at the top of the law profession, who are the top in law?
Audience: Jews.
Farrakhan: Sorry I didn't hear you.
Audience: Jews!
Farrakhan: Any doctors in the house? Ain't got no doctors? Oh there's one way in the back. At the top of the medical profession, the top in that are members of the Jewish community. Anybody in media? Who's the top in that field?
Audience: Jews.
Farrakhan: Anybody a rapper in the house? There's rappers. You can rap, ain't nothing wrong with that, but at the top of that are those that control the industry. Any of you have Hollywood ambitions, Broadway ambitions? Who's the top of that?
Audience: Jews.
Farrakhan: Same people! They're masters in business. Well I'm not a businessman I'm a banker. Well who's the master of the bankers?
Audience: Jews.
Farrakhan: TALK TO ME!
Audience: Jews!
Farrakhan: You don't discredit them because they're masters, you discredit them by the way they use their mastery.
Audience: [applause]
Farrakhan: Now, I close.

~ "All is Vanity" sermon at Mosque Maryam, Chicago 7/1/12

I wonder if there is a way he can bring the murder rate down by blaming Jews for the uptick in violence?

427 Gus  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 7:34:38am

re: #423 Cannadian Club Akbar

Agreed.

Could you imagine being mayor of Chicago? The place is a mad house. BTW, I think Farakahn approached Emanuel not the other way around. It's an unusual predicament. Somehow Obama gets dragged into this -- for obvious reasons. None of this will work IMO since the problem is both internal cultural norms (a culture of violence) and the drug war. Emanuel or whomever, that would include some Republican mayors in towns across America, face similar problems.

428 kirkspencer  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 7:35:15am

re: #422 Gus

The drug prohibition is likely the main cause. Chicago. Have we forgotten Chicago's legacy already? As if the violent crime of this city is anything new. Chicago had a high murder rate because of alcohol prohibition.

Every time crime and killing in Chicago gets discussed I keep recalling this blog-post from 2009. (not mine, by the way). Entitled 138 years of murder in Chicago, it starts with a nifty chart that shows the rate of homicides per 100,000 population from 1870 through 2008. If you're looking, note that the 2010 rate (last official report) of 15.2 is lower than the 2008 number of 18.03.

Bottom line: reality and sensationalism aren't quite in sync.

429 lawhawk  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 7:36:19am

The Post has a report roundup, including photos that are graphic (showing victims being attended to, and possibly one who was killed). Not sure why they'd post those - as if we need to see the deceased/injured, and it certainly could be traumatizing to the families/friends of those victims.

430 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 7:36:31am

re: #427 Gus

FWIW, I didn't drag Obama into this. (and I didn't say that you said that)!!!!

431 Decatur Deb  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 7:37:06am

re: #429 lawhawk

The Post has a report roundup, including photos that are graphic (showing victims being attended to, and possibly one who was killed). Not sure why they'd post those - as if we need to see the deceased/injured, and it certainly could be traumatizing to the families/friends of those victims.

It bleeds, it leads.

432 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 7:37:47am

re: #429 lawhawk

I really hate to upding your post but it is for the research, not the crime.

433 Gus  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 7:39:33am

re: #430 Cannadian Club Akbar

FWIW, I didn't drag Obama into this. (and I didn't say that you said that)!!!!

I didn't. I saw it all over the place from a Google search. National Review is on the case! (cough)

434 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 7:41:28am
435 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 7:42:22am

On FB, I was just told by a guy I was in a debate with that he is friends with a poli from Blah Blah Blah University and another from Zoink Zoink Zoink college. Guess he got me!! Funny, he spent $40K on college and I have a GED. Nice try, wanker!!!

436 lawhawk  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 7:43:02am

Bloomberg and NYPD Commissioner Kelly to hold presser at 11am to discuss shooting.

Leading theory is that disgruntled ex-employee shot manager and others.

437 Gus  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 7:43:41am

re: #428 kirkspencer

Every time crime and killing in Chicago gets discussed I keep recalling this blog-post from 2009. (not mine, by the way). Entitled 138 years of murder in Chicago, it starts with a nifty chart that shows the rate of homicides per 100,000 population from 1870 through 2008. If you're looking, note that the 2010 rate (last official report) of 15.2 is lower than the 2008 number of 18.03.

Bottom line: reality and sensationalism aren't quite in sync.

From Wiki:

Homicides in Chicago 1990-2011

1990: 851[6]
1991: 927[7]
1992: 943[7]
1993: 855[7]
1994: 931[7]
1995: 828[7]
1996: 796[7]
1997: 761[7]
1998: 704[7]
1999: 643[7]
2000: 633[7]
2001: 667[7]
2002: 656[7]
2003: 601[7]
2004: 453[7]
2005: 451[7]
2006: 471[7]
2007: 448[7]
2008: 513[7]
2009: 459[7]
2010: 436[7]
2011: 433[7]

Will you look at that. It's almost been cut in half since 1990.

438 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 7:45:42am
439 Gus  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 7:45:56am

re: #435 Cannadian Club Akbar

On FB, I was just told by a guy I was in a debate with that he is friends with a poli from Blah Blah Blah University and another from Zoink Zoink Zoink college. Guess he got me!! Funny, he spent $40K on college and I have a GED. Nice try, wanker!!!

I read somewhere once that going to college and getting all of those student loans will put you deep in debt. I didn't know that until I read that.

440 Gus  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 7:46:54am

re: #438 Cannadian Club Akbar

[Link: homicides.redeyechicago.com...]

It's still going down. Imagine if they had a web page like that from 1991 where it was 200 percent higher.

441 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 7:48:00am

re: #439 Gus

I read somewhere once that going to college and getting all of those student loans will put you deep in debt. I didn't know that until I read that.

Spending money doesn't make you smart.:)

442 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 7:49:05am

re: #440 Gus

That's fine. I remember when we had 3wood here. I would joke about the crime rate since he was from ChiTown.

443 Gus  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 7:49:26am

So the murder rate goes down but the hysteria goes up.

444 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 7:51:00am

Morning all!

How is u?

445 Targetpractice  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 7:51:16am

re: #443 Gus

So the murder rate goes down but the hysteria goes up.

"It bleeds, it leads."

446 Gus  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 7:51:22am

re: #441 Cannadian Club Akbar

Spending money doesn't make you smart.:)

I kid of course. But I saw some Tweet yesterday from some politico type. Something about "THE THINGS COLLEGES WON'T TELL THEIR STUDENTS WHICH PUT THEM DEEP IN DEBT!" Seriously. Give me a freaking break. If those students don't know they're going deep in debt, voluntarily, I question the colleges admission standards. You can't take out 100K in loans and then complain too much. It's a fact of life.

447 makeitstop  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 7:52:24am

re: #437 Gus

From Wiki:

Homicides in Chicago 1990-2011

Will you look at that. It's almost been cut in half since 1990.

But, but...Rahm!!!11

448 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 7:53:53am

re: #439 Gus

I read somewhere once that going to college and getting all of those student loans will put you deep in debt. I didn't know that until I read that.

The total amount of student loans that I owed after college was $5,000. But that was in 1986.

449 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 7:54:16am

re: #429 lawhawk

The Post has a report roundup, including photos that are graphic (showing victims being attended to, and possibly one who was killed). Not sure why they'd post those - as if we need to see the deceased/injured, and it certainly could be traumatizing to the families/friends of those victims.

It's an election year, we need as much drama as we can get --doncha know?

450 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 7:54:54am

re: #419 Gus

Yeah. People need to wake up and realize that the solution to Chicago's murder rate is right in front of our faces. Just allow its citizens to carry guns or CCW permits. They would probably change things overnight.

Sort of like how all the cities with the top 5 highest per-capita murder rates are in states that have concealed carry laws.

451 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 7:55:14am

re: #446 Gus

I am going to a community college in January. Just waiting on the loan amounts I get. The difference between me and other is the fact that I will pay mine back and don't expect free shit. Will I get a Pell Grant? Maybe. Will I get a Stafford Loan? Maybe. Am I going to skool to not grow up? Sure. Do I have a goal? Yes.

452 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 7:55:40am

re: #446 Gus

I kid of course. But I saw some Tweet yesterday from some politico type. Something about "THE THINGS COLLEGES WON'T TELL THEIR STUDENTS WHICH PUT THEM DEEP IN DEBT!" Seriously. Give me a freaking break. If those students don't know they're going deep in debt, voluntarily, I question the colleges admission standards. You can't take out 100K in loans and then complain too much. It's a fact of life.

Young people are so freakin' stupid about money --and as I get older, I think they are getting dumber.

I mean, look at the adults who signed for insane mortgages? Can't tell me these kids are any better at figuring the consequences of long-term debt. . .

453 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 7:55:53am

re: #450 What Would Spalding Gray Do?

Sort of like how all the cities with the top 5 highest per-capita murder rates are in states that have concealed carry laws.

Link?

454 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 7:56:34am

re: #448 Learned Mother of Zion

The total amount of student loans that I owed after college was $5,000. But that was in 1986.

Did Jesus sign your yearbook?
///(not in the face!!!!)

455 Gus  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 7:57:25am

I don't think CCW permits whether they're allowed or disallowed has much to do with homicide rates.

456 kirkspencer  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 7:57:35am

re: #447 makeitstop

But, but...Rahm!!!11

It wasn't just Rahm. I started seeing a lot of conservatives pointing out the ugliness of Chicago when Obama was elected. I didn't think much of it initially, not till some of those I was watching started trying to say this indicated Obama's background: a black from a city where the Democratic government was failing to rein in the high crime rate.

457 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 7:57:37am

re: #450 What Would Spalding Gray Do?

Sort of like how all the cities with the top 5 highest per-capita murder rates are in states that have concealed carry laws.

Chicago is #1. No C/C laws. DC is prolly #2.

458 Destro  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 7:58:58am

re: #390 Cannadian Club Akbar

Just hate the French like everyone else.
/half

The French were right all along. Just like in Iraq.

459 Gus  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 7:59:12am

re: #455 Gus

I don't think CCW permits whether they're allowed or disallowed has much to do with homicide rates.

And what I mean by this is yes, Chicago doesn't allow CCW but has a very high rate, but I don't think it would go down with CCW. IOW, CCW isn't the cause and neither is it the answer. It's a social issue. But again. Chicago's murder rate is nearly half what it was 20 years ago.

460 Kronocide  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 7:59:26am

re: #450 What Would Spalding Gray Do?

Sort of like how all the cities with the top 5 highest per-capita murder rates are in states that have concealed carry laws.

But are they legitimate murders?

461 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:00:10am

re: #454 Cannadian Club Akbar

Did Jesus sign your yearbook?
///(not in the face!!!!)

We didn't attend the same school. My school did not have a football team.

462 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:00:38am

re: #458 Destro

The French were right all along. Just like in Iraq.

And Libya in 1986.

463 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:00:53am

re: #457 Cannadian Club Akbar

Chicago is #1. No C/C laws. DC is prolly #2.

The most dangerous cities in America

1. Flint, Mich.
2. Detroit, Mich.
3. St. Louis, Mo.
4. Oakland, Calif.
5. Memphis, Tenn.

464 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:02:21am

re: #463 NJDhockeyfan

The most dangerous cities in America

1. Flint, Mich.
2. Detroit, Mich.
3. St. Louis, Mo.
4. Oakland, Calif.
5. Memphis, Tenn.

If I had to be a Raiders fan I would kill myself!! (don't tell Hoops!!)

465 Gus  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:04:24am

re: #463 NJDhockeyfan

The most dangerous cities in America

1. Flint, Mich.
2. Detroit, Mich.
3. St. Louis, Mo.
4. Oakland, Calif.
5. Memphis, Tenn.

And the murders as usual are done between people that know each other.

467 palomino  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:05:37am

re: #302 sattv4u2

No

The "red herring" is all the gnashing and wailing that Mitt (and other 'rich" people") paid "less" in taxes than Joe Blue Collar

Both the 'rich" person and Joe Blue Collar followed the existing laws. It just makes for a better sound bite saying "MITT PAID LESS THAN HIS SECRETARY"

But you are right in one aspect. It's not about "absolute sums", because if those numbers were released it would show the millions that Mitt (and others) pay so that is MORE taxes than Joe Blue Collar

You don't get simple concepts. Sure, the rich guy pays a larger sum, but things are ass-backwards if he pays a lower rate...that's the opposite of the progressive tax system that's been around well over a century. This was one of Reagan's best received arguments in 1980: "Something is wrong in a system where a millionaire pays lower rates than a bus driver."

As far as "existing laws," the point is that Romney wants to change those already skewed laws to benefit people like himself even further.

468 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:05:56am

re: #465 Gus

And the murders as usual are done between people that know each other.

{{looks around the room,,,, shudders}}

//

470 kirkspencer  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:06:54am

re: #452 ggt

Young people are so freakin' stupid about money --and as I get older, I think they are getting dumber.

I mean, look at the adults who signed for insane mortgages? Can't tell me these kids are any better at figuring the consequences of long-term debt. . .

I have become very fond of Warren's "All Your Worth" and have been recommending it broadly. Mortgage is part of the "Must have" section which you're to try to cap at 50% of take-home. If it, necessary groceries, health care, and transportation for work costs would go over your 50% line you need a cheaper mortgage. (Actually, there's a whole chapter on getting a house. Still, that's the critical line).

The short version of her plan, by the way, is a three part budget: 50% must, 30% want, 20% save. Within are some things that made me say 'doh', and I've been good at financial juggling for a long time.

Example of the 'doh'. Savings is in four tiers, when you cap one go to the next. a) $1000 emergency fund - and spend the darn thing for emergencies. b) pay off all short term debt (ie all but mortgage and maybe student loans). c) create a safety buffer of 6x must (which may be larger than 3x take home). d) split evenly: IRA and indexed mutual fund. If you spend your emergency while you're building your buffer, either transfer buffer to re-establish emergency or change which is getting that part of the paycheck.

471 Decatur Deb  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:06:57am

re: #466 Gus

Report: Stockton, Calif., has more murders per capita than Chicago

It took several years of statistics to prove to my wife that our little town in Baja Alabama has a much higher murder rate than NYC.

472 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:07:26am

re: #469 Gus

Your list was a bit different than NJD, but some of the same are there.

473 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:08:20am

re: #467 palomino

Sure, the rich guy pays a larger sum, but things are ass-backwards if he pays a lower rate.

No, he pays the same (base) rate on income that you or I pay, and he pays the same rate on capital gains that you and I would pay.

474 Gus  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:09:18am

re: #472 Cannadian Club Akbar

Your list was a bit different than NJD, but some of the same are there.

I think what happens in Chicago is that there are spurts of murders over a period of a few days. So in one weekend 9 people will be killed. Of course when you read a headline like that it takes you back. Rather than say 9 people being killed over a period of 9 to 14 days.

475 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:10:53am

re: #474 Gus

I think what happens in Chicago is that there are spurts of murders over a period of a few days. So in one weekend 9 people will be killed. Of course when you read a headline like that it takes you back. Rather than say 9 people being killed over a period of 9 to 14 days.

Actually, I think the difference is that Chicago is that big bad city that Al Capone is from. They have *eek* black people there and housing projects, so it must be dangerous.

/

reputation amplifies reality.

476 Gus  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:11:10am

But I think Emanuel taking up Farrakhan is stupid.

477 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:11:19am

re: #453 Cannadian Club Akbar

Link?

[Link: www.fbi.gov...]

Murders and non-negligent homicides per 100,000 population
New Orleans, Louisiana 49.1 ("shall-issue" ccw)
St. Louis, Missouri 40.5 ("shall-issue" ccw)
Baltimore, Maryland 34.8 ("may-issue" ccw)
Detroit, Michigan 34.5 ("shall-issue" ccw)
Newark, New Jersey 32.1 ("may-issue" ccw)

478 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:11:33am

re: #476 Gus

But I think Emanuel taking up Farrakhan is stupid.

que "taking up"?

479 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:11:53am

re: #475 ggt

Actually, I think the difference is that Chicago is that big bad city that Al Capone is from. They have *eek* black people there and housing projects, so it must be dangerous.

/

reputation amplifies reality.

Whoa whoa whoa!! You guys have black people there?
///

480 kirkspencer  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:12:00am

re: #473 sattv4u2


Sure, the rich guy pays a larger sum, but things are ass-backwards if he pays a lower rate.

No, he pays the same (base) rate on income that you or I pay, and he pays the same rate on capital gains that you and I would pay.

So how does Romney get an effective 13% tax rate?

Before I became one of the poverty-stricken (odd jobs, less than $5000 per year income per year), my effective rate on an income vicinity household median was 22%. Romney paid a lower rate. The reason was that he could afford to take advantage of tax holes. Part of that was because he had the money to put in those holes that would negate taxes. Part of that was because he could pay the experts to find those holes. Neither of those were available to me.

481 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:12:24am

Wingnuts admit that GOP caused the massive unemployment:

482 Gus  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:12:34am

re: #478 sattv4u2

que "taking up"?

[Link: www.google.com...]

483 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:12:59am

too funny! I love the pics of the dogs.

484 Kronocide  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:13:15am

re: #474 Gus

I think what happens in Chicago is that there are spurts of murders over a period of a few days. So in one weekend 9 people will be killed. Of course when you read a headline like that it takes you back. Rather than say 9 people being killed over a period of 9 to 14 days.

.... and what happens in the rest of the country is Gangster Government/Because Obama.

What happens in the rest of the country is a whole bunch of concern.

485 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:13:22am

re: #480 kirkspencer

my effective rate on an income vicinity household median was 22%. Romney paid a lower rate

he "paid a lower rate" because most (if not all) was from capital gains and interest incomes, NOT a regular salary/ hourly job

486 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:13:24am

re: #477 What Would Spalding Gray Do?

Cali and Texas are 1 and 2 in "hands,feet" murders. Heh.

487 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:14:12am

re: #482 Gus

[Link: www.google.com...]

K,, thanks

Yeah,, I'm sure there are better "community leaders" in and about Chicago that would have been a better choice

488 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:14:53am

re: #477 What Would Spalding Gray Do?

[Link: www.fbi.gov...]

Murders and non-negligent homicides per 100,000 population
New Orleans, Louisiana 49.1 ("shall-issue" ccw)
St. Louis, Missouri 40.5 ("shall-issue" ccw)
Baltimore, Maryland 34.8 ("may-issue" ccw)
Detroit, Michigan 34.5 ("shall-issue" ccw)
Newark, New Jersey 32.1 ("may-issue" ccw)

Your link does not support your data.

489 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:15:31am

re: #488 ggt

Your link does not support your data.

You got your chocolate on my peanut butter!!

/

490 kirkspencer  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:16:12am

re: #457 Cannadian Club Akbar

Chicago is #1. No C/C laws. DC is prolly #2.

C/C laws have little to no discernible impact on homicides or crime rates. There are studies that say they do, there are studies that say they don't. Most of the studies that say they do have problems when the year range is extended: they tend to pick an abnormally high year as their start point and do not normalize against non-C/C localities.

491 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:16:21am

re: #489 sattv4u2

You got your chocolate on my peanut butter!!

/

No your peanut butter is in my chocolate!!!

Chocolate beats Peanut Butter!

Chocolate beats everything!

492 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:16:50am

re: #480 kirkspencer

The reason was that he could afford to take advantage of tax holes.

Did you declare any charitable donations on your tax return? If so, you took advantage of "tax holes"

493 Gus  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:18:21am

re: #477 What Would Spalding Gray Do?

[Link: www.fbi.gov...]

Murders and non-negligent homicides per 100,000 population
New Orleans, Louisiana 49.1 ("shall-issue" ccw)
St. Louis, Missouri 40.5 ("shall-issue" ccw)
Baltimore, Maryland 34.8 ("may-issue" ccw)
Detroit, Michigan 34.5 ("shall-issue" ccw)
Newark, New Jersey 32.1 ("may-issue" ccw)

Correlation/causation. That may or may not imply anything. Most of those murders are probably not committed by holders of CCWs. It also doesn't prove that CCWs would have prevented those murders. Last murder I could find was probably some unregistered illegal handgun. Cabbie was shot in the neck from behind so if he had a CCW he couldn't have done much.

494 Gus  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:19:09am

re: #493 Gus

Correlation/causation. That may or may not imply anything. Most of those murders are probably not committed by holders of CCWs. It also doesn't prove that CCWs would have prevented those murders. Last murder I could find was probably some unregistered illegal handgun. Cabbie was shot in the neck from behind so if he had a CCW he couldn't have done much.

Correction. Shot in the back of the head not neck.

495 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:19:37am

re: #490 kirkspencer

C/C laws have little to no discernible impact on homicides or crime rates. There are studies that say they do, there are studies that say they don't. Most of the studies that say they do have problems when the year range is extended: they tend to pick an abnormally high year as their start point and do not normalize against non-C/C localities.

How does disarming the law-abiding affect the crime rate? I've never understood this.

In Chicago, there Hand Guns are not legal, no ccw, yet there are still a high murder rate with handguns.

So, if people don't follow the law, (and/or it isn't actively enforced) What good is the law?

Criminals don't follow the law.

496 Kronocide  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:19:42am

re: #480 kirkspencer

So how does Romney get an effective 13% tax rate?

Before I became one of the poverty-stricken (odd jobs, less than $5000 per year income per year), my effective rate on an income vicinity household median was 22%. Romney paid a lower rate. The reason was that he could afford to take advantage of tax holes. Part of that was because he had the money to put in those holes that would negate taxes. Part of that was because he could pay the experts to find those holes. Neither of those were available to me.

They are available to you if you become rich. Becoming rich is available to you because of AMERICAFUCKYEAHBOOTSTRAPS.

Get your Patriot Bootstraps from Goldline.

497 kirkspencer  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:19:46am

re: #485 sattv4u2


my effective rate on an income vicinity household median was 22%. Romney paid a lower rate

he "paid a lower rate" because most (if not all) was from capital gains and interest incomes, NOT a regular salary/ hourly job

And as I noted above, capital gains is an income of the wealthy. In fact, then, the wealthy have lower tax rates than the non-wealthy because they get to use a type of income that is less accessible to the poor.

498 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:20:38am

re: #495 ggt

Criminals don't follow the law.

The hell you say!!

499 Interesting Times  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:21:43am
500 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:22:29am

re: #495 ggt

How does disarming the law-abiding affect the crime rate? I've never understood this.

In Chicago, there Hand Guns are not legal, no ccw, yet there are still a high murder rate with handguns.

So, if people don't follow the law, (and/or it isn't actively enforced) What good is the law?

Criminals don't follow the law.

Put a sign on your lawn that says "We are not armed". Tell me how that works out for you.:)

501 Gus  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:22:51am

Matt Duss, Jeffrey Goldberg, Didi Remez and Hussein Ibish seem to be having a rather strange conversation.

502 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:23:57am

re: #501 Gus

Matt Duss, Jeffrey Goldberg, Didi Remez and Hussein Ibish seem to be having a rather strange conversation.

They may as well

They all have rather strange names!!!

//

503 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:24:50am
The window washers at a children's hospital in London dress up as super heroes to lift the children's spirits. You gotta LIKE that they do this, it's awesome.

from my fb --how cool is that?

504 Gus  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:25:17am

re: #502 sattv4u2

They may as well

They all have rather strange names!!!

//

I'd post it here but it involves foreskin and Germans.

505 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:25:19am

re: #498 sattv4u2

Criminals don't follow the law.

The hell you say!!

It's a rumor I heard . . .

506 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:25:20am

re: #488 ggt

Your link does not support your data.

[Link: www.fbi.gov...]

It is beyond the scope of this post to teach division and basic reading skills.

507 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:25:24am

re: #503 ggt

from my fb --how cool is that?

EFFING COOL!!!

508 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:26:04am

Signs Suggest Iran Is Speeding Up Work on Nuclear Program

WASHINGTON — International nuclear inspectors will soon report that Iran has installed hundreds of new centrifuges in recent months and may also be speeding up production of nuclear fuel while negotiations with the United States and its allies have ground to a near halt, according to diplomats and experts briefed on the findings.

Almost all of the new equipment is being installed in a deep underground site on a military base near Qum that is considered virtually invulnerable to military attack. It would suggest that a boast by senior Iranian leaders late last month — that the country had added upward of 1,000 new machines to its installation despite Western sabotage — may be true.

The report will also indicate, according to the officials familiar with its contents, that Iran is increasingly focused on enriching uranium to a level of 20 percent — a purity that it says it needs for a specialty nuclear reactor that it insists is used only for medical purposes, but that outside experts say gets it most of the way to the level needed to produce a workable nuclear bomb. The report does not attempt to address the question of whether Iran has made a decision to build a nuclear weapon; American intelligence officials believe it has not, and Iran insists it wants to use nuclear power for peaceful ends.

509 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:27:44am

re: #493 Gus

Correlation/causation.

Not the point. I'm generally in favor of CCW with certain hesitations (namely, the "tests" are entirely trivial) but there seems to be no evidence that concealed carry laws reduce violent crime rates.

510 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:28:30am

Bloombergs newser on the shootings today

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

511 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:28:50am

re: #506 What Would Spalding Gray Do?

[Link: www.fbi.gov...]

It is beyond the scope of this post to teach division and basic reading skills.

Your ORIGINAL link showed State data, you referenced City data.

no need to be snarky. If you do not wish to provide direct data for your premise, say so in the post and state why.

512 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:29:23am

re: #511 ggt

ouch

:)

513 Gus  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:29:38am
514 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:29:50am

re: #509 What Would Spalding Gray Do?

Not the point. I'm generally in favor of CCW with certain hesitations (namely, the "tests" are entirely trivial) but there seems to be no evidence that concealed carry laws reduce violent crime rates.

You forget, there is no box for "firearm used by citizen to prevent crime or defend oneself" on the police report. This data is not collected.

515 Gus  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:30:45am

Oops. Fixed that post.

516 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:31:06am

Gilmore admitted being involved in downtown Fort Collins fire, cellmate says

An Occupy Fort Collins protester accused of starting the Penny Flats fire told a former cellmate that he was “involved” with the blaze that caused $10 million in damage, the cellmate testified Thursday.

“He told me he was involved with the fire, there was no evidence that was going to be brought forth against him, and he was going to be able to beat the case,” said an inmate who shared a cell with Gilmore. The inmate is currently incarcerated on separate burglary and trespassing charges.

Benjamin David Gilmore, 30, shared the cell at the Larimer County Jail with the man for two days in December. The inmate said Gilmore told him about the Occupy movement and his beliefs in an alternative economy based on gold and silver currency.

He said Gilmore told him that he and others were involved with the fire, but he didn’t give any names. The inmate also said Gilmore also told him his wife was going to cover for him.

517 Gus  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:32:17am

Please forward all of your complaints to the Tweeter of your choosing.

518 kirkspencer  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:33:00am

re: #492 sattv4u2

The reason was that he could afford to take advantage of tax holes.

Did you declare any charitable donations on your tax return? If so, you took advantage of "tax holes"

As it happens, no. I made less than $5,000 last year. Every penny went to things like food and rent.

519 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:33:09am

re: #517 Gus

Please forward all of your complaints to the Tweeter of your choosing.

The manager of our complaint department is Helen Waite

If you have a complaint, go to Helen Waite

520 Gus  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:34:03am

re: #519 sattv4u2

The manager of our complaint department is Helen Waite

If you have a complaint, go to Helen Waite

Call my lawyer. His name is Haywood J. Blowme.

521 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:34:13am

re: #518 kirkspencer

As it happens, no. I made less than $5,000 last year. Every penny went to things like food and rent.

last year

Previous years?

522 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:35:00am

re: #520 Gus

Call my lawyer. His name is Haywood J. Blowme.

He'll have to contact the firm I use

Dewey, Cheatum and Howe

523 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:35:06am

re: #520 Gus

Call my lawyer. His name is Haywood J. Blowme.

Mine are Dewey, Cheatem and Howe.

524 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:35:23am

re: #523 Cannadian Club Akbar

frakkin slow ass typer!

525 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:35:24am

re: #522 sattv4u2

He'll have to contact the firm I use

Dewey, Cheatum and Howe

Asshole!!

526 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:35:36am

re: #525 Cannadian Club Akbar

Asshole!!

SEE!!!

527 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:36:14am

re: #514 ggt

You forget, there is no box for "firearm used by citizen to prevent crime or defend oneself" on the police report. This data is not collected.

Is it properly:

This Data is not collected or
These Data are not collected?

don't want to be accused of not having basic grammar skills . . .

528 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:36:26am

heh,,, where else in the world can you be called an ASSHOLE and give the person that called you that an UPDING!!!

I LOVE THIS PLACE!!

529 Gus  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:36:45am

re: #522 sattv4u2

He'll have to contact the firm I use

Dewey, Cheatum and Howe

Got until the end of October to talk with them. They're closed after that.

530 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:36:57am

re: #527 ggt

ouch! (again)

:)

531 lawhawk  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:36:59am

re: #523 Cannadian Club Akbar

Your lawyers should work with mine - Scrue, Em, Oftin

532 kirkspencer  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:37:00am

re: #514 ggt

You forget, there is no box for "firearm used by citizen to prevent crime or defend oneself" on the police report. This data is not collected.

Which is why you have to use comparative studies, showing more than a year or two and normalizing against other localities.

The hypothesis is that CCW reduces crime. The test of that hypothesis is to compare crime rates across multiple localities, both CCW and non-CCW, including at least a decade each way pre- and post-carry law where possible, and to eliminate or balance other contributing elements. When you do that - and frequently without needing to do the elimination and balancing - CCW's impact is indistinguishable.

533 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:39:02am

re: #532 kirkspencer

Which is why you have to use comparative studies, showing more than a year or two and normalizing against other localities.

The hypothesis is that CCW reduces crime. The test of that hypothesis is to compare crime rates across multiple localities, both CCW and non-CCW, including at least a decade each way pre- and post-carry law where possible, and to eliminate or balance other contributing elements. When you do that - and frequently without needing to do the elimination and balancing - CCW's impact is indistinguishable.

I still wish we had direct data on such things. Would make creating laws and policy so much less dramatic. We argue and argue and it wouldn't be that difficult to collect the data.

534 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:39:04am

re: #527 ggt

Is it properly:

This Data is not collected or
These Data are not collected?

don't want to be accused of not having basic grammar skills . . .

THE

!!

535 makeitstop  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:39:52am

re: #520 Gus

Call my lawyer. His name is Haywood J. Blowme.

A friend of mine wrote a letter to the editor of the NY Post a few years ago, using that pseudonym. They published it.

Many laughs were shared that day, I can assure you.

536 Gus  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:40:04am

Sheesh. Some folks are circulating some petition to "tell Romney to not let Huckabee speak at the RNC." Seriously. That's not going to happen and what difference does it make. If you object to Huckabee there are plenty of other people would object to at the convention. People need to remember that it's THEIR convention and live with that.

537 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:40:26am

re: #534 sattv4u2

THE

!!

You are correct he is singular.

538 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:41:09am

I have a web tech question.
I use excel for pricing gold product, and a part of that is grabbing the current price from kitco.com/market with a excel web query.

Is there a web query function like that in a web friendly language?

539 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:41:20am

I have to accomplish somthing today.

Have a great one all!

540 The Left  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:41:23am

re: #536 Gus

Sheesh. Some folks are circulating some petition to "tell Romney to not let Huckabee speak at the RNC." Seriously. That's not going to happen and what difference does it make. If you object to Huckabee there are plenty of other people would object to at the convention. People need to remember that it's THEIR convention and live with that.

They want to hide their various embarassments in the closet. We can find out what they stand for after they're elected.

541 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:41:30am

re: #537 ggt

You are correct he is singular.

No he's not!!

Image: 270px-STDatalore.jpg

542 HappyWarrior  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:41:50am

re: #536 Gus

Sheesh. Some folks are circulating some petition to "tell Romney to not let Huckabee speak at the RNC." Seriously. That's not going to happen and what difference does it make. If you object to Huckabee there are plenty of other people would object to at the convention. People need to remember that it's THEIR convention and live with that.

Yep. If they want to have Mike Huckabee who thinks we should be reading David Barton and his revisionist history at gunpoint, that's their right and it's our right to go what the fuck when he says shit like that.

543 sagehen  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:42:03am

re: #273 Varek Raith

Romney does everything possible to legally avoid taxes.

One of the things he does to legally avoid taxes... is that Bain pays millions of dollars a year to lobbyists to make sure the tax laws are written with special provisions to specifically benefit people like themselves. And *only* people like themselves.

There's no economics reason, and no public policy reason, for the carried interest loophole. There's just a couple of thousand private equity and hedge fund folks, making tens of millions of dollars a year each, using their wealth and power to ensure a law that puts their particular way of earning in a special category that puts their tax rate at less than half what other people earning their level would pay.

544 Gus  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:42:14am

re: #540 Millicent Islam

They want to hide their various embarassments in the closet. We can find out what they stand for after they're elected.

If Romney had to keep certain people from talking at the convention then they'd end up with no speakers.

//

545 kirkspencer  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:42:38am

re: #521 sattv4u2

last year

Previous years?

see upthread. Up to about four years ago I made in the vicinity of the median household income. When I did, I was able to take a mortgage deduction. My charitable contributions and medical expenses did not cross the minimum threshold for deductions. I did not make enough to open an investment account in the Caymans or a Swiss bank account. I could not afford to invest in a guaranteed income loss program that would shield me from a larger quantity of taxes.

The word I should have added was "some". or even "most". Further, I did not start with the capital gains tax rate but instead had to start with the income tax rate - over 20% instead of 15%. With regular income I could only include "approved" expenditures of over a certain portion of my income, whereas capital gains is only on what is left after all expenses are considered.

546 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:43:04am

re: #544 Gus

If Romney had to keep certain people from talking at the convention then they'd end up with no speakers.

//

heh

More time to hit the strip clubs then

Works for me!!

547 Kronocide  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:43:48am

re: #540 Millicent Islam

They want to hide their various embarassments in the closet. We can find out what they stand for after they're elected.

Sure seems the GOP's Big Tent is a lot smaller than it's Big Closet.

On that note, time to commit capitalism and oppress my only employee.

548 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:44:32am

DAMN YOU PEOPLE!! I HAVE TO GO!! Hi, Ice (waves)

549 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:45:12am

re: #548 Cannadian Club Akbar

DAMN YOU PEOPLE!! I HAVE TO GO!! Hi, Ice (waves)

Flush this time, willya

And wash your hands, for Gods sakes. YOUR A CHEF!!!

550 Gus  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:46:58am

re: #549 sattv4u2

Flush this time, willya

And wash your hands, for Gods sakes. YOUR A CHEF!!!

Don't you love it when you go to a restaurant and hit the restroom only to notice there's no paper towels or anything to dry your hands?

551 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:49:02am

re: #550 Gus

Don't you love it when you go to a restaurant and hit the restroom only to notice there's no paper towels or anything to dry your hands?

It's worse when you discover there is no TP after sitting on the toilet for 5 minutes.

552 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:49:23am

re: #550 Gus

Don't you love it when you go to a restaurant and hit the restroom only to notice there's no paper towels or anything to dry your hands?

Guy was using the urinal next to me. I walked out without washing my hands. He sees me later and says, real snotty like

"Didn't your mother ever teach you to wash your hands after you pee?"

So I said

"No. She taught me never to pee on my hands!"

Smiled and walked away!

553 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:51:14am

re: #550 Gus

Don't you love it when you go to a restaurant and hit the restroom only to notice there's no paper towels or anything to dry your hands?

Thats why I wear a tie when dining out!!

554 Gus  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:52:11am

I just saw Glenn Greenwald's name and don't have any paper towels. I feel ill.

//

555 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:52:31am

re: #554 Gus

I just saw Glenn Greenwald's name and don't have any paper towels. I feel ill.

//

Here. Have a tie!

556 Mattand  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:53:52am

re: #552 sattv4u2

Guy was using the urinal next to me. I walked out without washing my hands. He sees me later and says, real snotty like

"Didn't your mother ever teach you to wash your hands after you pee?"

So I said

"No. She taught me never to pee on my hands!"

Smiled and walked away!

Uh, okay. Your lack of understanding of hygiene sure put him in his place.

557 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:53:55am

There's a rumor going around Twitter and some wingnut blogs that Germany now wants to ban little girls from getting ears pierced.

I haven't seen this on any news sites yet.

558 RogueOne  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:54:44am

re: #528 sattv4u2

Hello assholes!

559 Gus  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:55:26am

[Link: twitter.com...]

560 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:55:53am

re: #557 Learned Mother of Zion

There's a rumor going around Twitter and some wingnut blogs that Germany now wants to ban little girls from getting ears pierced.

I haven't seen this on any news sites yet.

I found one story on it.

AFTER CIRCUMCISION BAN, GERMAN COURTS TARGET CHILD EAR-PIERCING

BERLIN - In the debate in Germany over circumcision, you often hear people say jokingly that if cutting the foreskin off a baby boy’s penis for religious reasons is outlawed then piercing little girls’ earlobes shouldn’t be allowed either. But that’s just the scenario that may be shaping up. After a Cologne court ruled in June that circumcision was illegal, a Berlin judge is examining whether or not ear-piercing should be as well.

561 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:56:22am

re: #556 Mattand

Uh, okay. Your lack of understanding of hygiene sure put him in his place.

{sigh}

Just for you

/////////

562 RogueOne  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:56:25am

re: #559 Gus

Thought that said "David Alan Grier". Now I'm disappointed.

563 dragonath  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:56:37am

Bill Nye on creationism: "Your world view just becomes crazy"

564 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:56:55am

re: #558 RogueOne

Hello assholes!

As long as you smile and mean it when you say that!!!

565 Mattand  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:57:16am

re: #561 sattv4u2

{sigh}

Just for you

/////////

If you had sarcasm slashed in the first place, I wouldn't have posted.

566 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:57:33am

re: #560 NJDhockeyfan

I found one story on it.

AFTER CIRCUMCISION BAN, GERMAN COURTS TARGET CHILD EAR-PIERCING

It's showing up on a bunch of blogs, just not on any major news media.

567 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:58:36am

re: #565 Mattand

If you had sarcasm slashed in the first place, I wouldn't have posted.

What else can I do to keep you from posting!?!?

(oh shit,,, should I put some /// here or not!?!?)

568 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 8:59:37am

re: #565 Mattand

If you had sarcasm slashed in the first place, I wouldn't have posted.

and BTW,,

Both 558 and 564,,, sarcasm WITHOUT slashes!!

OH NOEZZZ!!!

569 Mattand  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:01:11am

re: #567 sattv4u2

What else can I do to keep you from posting!?!?

(oh shit,,, should I put some /// here or not!?!?)

A million dollar check would do it.

570 Gus  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:01:39am

re: #562 RogueOne

Thought that said "David Alan Grier". Now I'm disappointed.

Green wrote a widely lauded piece in the New Statesman (UK) challenging the misconceptions of the extradition/asylum of Julian Assange. Naturally that came with a response from the Assange and Wikileaks cult at a volume which continue to be almost at eleventy. "How dare anyone challenge our nobleman Julian Assange!" BTW, the OAS will convene a meeting over the what not that occurred in the UK right before the young Mr. Assange departed in Evita like fashion to a country with little press freedom, Ecuador.

571 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:01:46am

re: #566 Learned Mother of Zion

It's showing up on a bunch of blogs, just not on any major news media.

Ear piercing stories are just not as interesting as they used to be.

572 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:01:51am

re: #569 Mattand

A million dollar check would do it.

Will do
Hope you like bouncy things!

573 palomino  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:03:13am

Yeah, that Warren Buffet guy is full of shit when he criticizes a tax system in which he pays a lower effective rate than his secretary. Other than being one of the most successful capitalists in history, and one of America's richest men, what the hell does he know about economics?

If a guy pays $1 mil in taxes, most people would say, "Wow...that's a lot." But if that was on $100 mil in income, then most people would say, "WTF" as that's a 1% rate. OTOH, a guy who makes only $100k, if he pays 15k in taxes is paying a hell of a lot less than the first guy, but his rate is so much higher that there's a legit tax fairness issue.

574 Gus  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:03:30am

Wikileaks started out as a document dump website dedicated to global transparency. Since then it has morphed into a cult and political ideology of its own complete with a dear leader whom I shall from now on refer to as L Ron Assange.

575 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:03:54am

Alrighty then

Remember the outrage about Mitt buying Twitter followers?

Well, what's good for the goose ,,,,,

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

According to the StatusPeople tool, 71 percent of Lady Gaga’s nearly 29 million followers are “fake” or “inactive.” So are 70 percent of President Obama’s nearly 19 million followers.

576 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:04:47am

re: #574 Gus

I shall from now on refer to as L Ron Assange.

Not until Julian keeps writing "new" books years after he passes!!!!

577 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:06:34am

re: #573 palomino

Yeah, that Warren Buffet guy is full of shit when he criticizes a tax system in which he pays a lower effective rate than his secretary. Other than being one of the most successful capitalists in history, and one of America's richest men, what the hell does he know about economics?

If a guy pays $1 mil in taxes, most people would say, "Wow...that's a lot." But if that was on $100 mil in income, then most people would say, "WTF" as that's a 1% rate. OTOH, a guy who makes only $100k, if he pays 15k in taxes is paying a hell of a lot less than the first guy, but his rate is so much higher that there's a legit tax fairness issue.

But... 40% of the people aren't paying any taxes at all!

I got that talking point from my financial adviser while having lunch with him one day. Opted not to get into the issue with him of how not all income is created equal when it comes to marginal utility.

578 Gus  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:06:38am

re: #576 sattv4u2

I shall from now on refer to as L Ron Assange.

Not until Julian keeps writing "new" books years after he passes!!!!

Pretty soon they'll be singing songs about Assange like they did with Kim Jong-il.

579 makeitstop  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:06:51am

re: #574 Gus

Wikileaks started out as a document dump website dedicated to global transparency. Since then it has morphed into a cult and political ideology of its own complete with a dear leader whom I shall from now on refer to as L Ron Assange.

He isn't going to inflict bad science fiction on us like the other L. Ron did, is he?

580 palomino  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:06:56am

re: #473 sattv4u2


Sure, the rich guy pays a larger sum, but things are ass-backwards if he pays a lower rate.

No, he pays the same (base) rate on income that you or I pay, and he pays the same rate on capital gains that you and I would pay.

The average upper mid class American pays a higher rate than the multi-millionaires you're defending because his income derives from a different source--actual earned income as opposed to stock dividends and capital gains. That's an issue of tax fairness and a reflection of laws written by people like Romney FOR people like Romney. Look again at Reagan's famous quote, which, at the time, both Repubs and Dems agreed with, and tell me where he's wrong.

581 Gus  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:07:27am

re: #579 makeitstop

He isn't going to inflict bad science fiction on us like the other L. Ron did, is he?

Maybe. He is pretty adept at fiction already.

583 makeitstop  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:08:33am

re: #581 Gus

Maybe. He is pretty adept at fiction already.

This is true.

Who's a suitable Assange-acolyte actor to play in the film version of said bad science fiction, then?

584 Gus  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:09:35am

re: #583 makeitstop

This is true.

Who's a suitable Assange-acolyte actor to play in the film version of said bad science fiction, then?

To play Assange? Hmmm. Justin Bieber?

585 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:10:58am

re: #580 palomino

I never argued that the system was "fair", only that it IS the system as it stands now
But to report it accurately, it must be stated that Romney is paying what the system (cap gains) requires him (and Buffett) to pay. IF they derive regular income they pay the same base you or I pay
If you or I derive money from capital gains you and I would pay the same rate that Romney and Buffett pay

586 Kragar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:11:05am

re: #584 Gus

To play Assange? Hmmm. Justin Bieber?

Mark Gatiss is the only reasonable answer.

Image: MV5BMTkxMDA4MzcwOF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwNzY2NTU4NQ@@._V1._SX214_CR0,0,214,314_.jpg

587 Gus  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:11:36am

re: #586 Kragar

Mark Gatiss is the only reasonable answer.

Image: MV5BMTkxMDA4MzcwOF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwNzY2NTU4NQ@@._V1._SX214_CR0,0,214,314_.jpg

Picture no workie.

588 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:12:23am

re: #584 Gus

To play Assange? Hmmm. Justin Bieber?

Mr. Humphries

Image: 22b116ec-b2c5-45d3-98cd-14573b828fec.jpg

589 Gus  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:12:55am

re: #586 Kragar

Mark Gatiss is the only reasonable answer.

Image: MV5BMTkxMDA4MzcwOF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwNzY2NTU4NQ@@._V1._SX214_CR0,0,214,314_.jpg

I see... but that might work.

590 Gus  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:13:11am

re: #588 sattv4u2

Mr. Humphries

Image: 22b116ec-b2c5-45d3-98cd-14573b828fec.jpg

He's dead Jim.

591 Kragar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:13:25am

re: #587 Gus

Picture no workie.

Image: mark_gatiss_512.jpg

592 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:13:40am

re: #590 Gus

He's dead Jim.

With Assanges personality, is there a difference??

593 Gus  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:14:02am

re: #592 sattv4u2

With Assanges personality, is there a difference??

Neil Patrick Harris.

Image: cn_image_0.size.assange-patrick-harris.gif

594 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:15:06am

re: #578 Gus

Pretty soon they'll be singing songs about Assange like they did with Kim Jong-il.

595 Gus  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:15:14am

re: #592 sattv4u2

With Assanges personality, is there a difference??

Hey. Assange is a straight up fellow. Why I can get Michael Moore, Oliver Stone, and George Galloway as character witnesses.

596 Kragar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:16:17am

re: #593 Gus

Neil Patrick Harris.

Image: cn_image_0.size.assange-patrick-harris.gif

But NPH is likeable.

597 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:17:30am
598 makeitstop  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:17:52am

re: #584 Gus

To play Assange? Hmmm. Justin Bieber?

My brain just violently collided with that idea. It may take me the rest of the day to recover.

599 RogueOne  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:18:02am

Harry photos: Is it normal to drink and end up naked?
[Link: www.bbc.co.uk...]

Short answer: Yes.

600 Gus  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:18:49am

Steady now. We may attract the wrath of the "anonymous" army! Bring your own Cheetos.

601 Kragar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:18:59am

re: #599 RogueOne

Harry photos: Is it normal to drink and end up naked?
[Link: www.bbc.co.uk...]

Short answer: Yes.

"It is common to see inhibitions break down after drinking."

You don't say!

602 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:19:52am
603 Gus  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:20:07am

Wanna see irony?

604 Gus  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:21:02am

re: #603 Gus

Wanna see irony?

[Embedded content]

Or read this.

[Link: twitpic.com...]

Now think for a moment. That's a Jesse Ventura quote.

605 RogueOne  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:21:36am

re: #601 Kragar

"It is common to see inhibitions break down after drinking."

You don't say!

They need to add some different degrees of difficulty to the question. For instance, Is it normal to go out drinking and wake up lost and naked in the bushes?

606 Mattand  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:22:52am

re: #603 Gus

Wanna see irony?

[Embedded content]

That's a good quote. Shame it had to come from a major league conspiracy theorist.

607 Gus  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:23:18am

re: #606 Mattand

That's a good quote. Shame it had to come from a major league conspiracy theorist.

My response.

608 darthstar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:25:09am

So one guy shoots one guy in New York, and the media dedicates two plus hours of coverage to this? That's gotta piss off Mitt Romney.

Oh, and props to NYC Mayor Bloomberg for slipping into his opening remarks, "New York is not immune to a national gun problem."...expect the NRA to shit Twinkies over that comment.

609 Sionainn  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:25:52am

re: #599 RogueOne

Harry photos: Is it normal to drink and end up naked?
[Link: www.bbc.co.uk...]

Short answer: Yes.

At age 27 though? For some reason, I thought he was younger than that.

610 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:25:56am

K Kiddies

My pillow is screaming my name

BBL

611 darthstar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:26:26am

re: #606 Mattand

That's a good quote. Shame it had to come from a major league conspiracy theorist.

George Carlin...god I miss him.

612 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:27:18am

O/T, saw The Dictator last night, it was freakin hilarious.

613 darthstar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:27:21am

re: #610 sattv4u2

K Kiddies

My pillow is screaming my name

BBL

I'd be concerned if it screamed the name of the mailman.

614 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:27:59am

re: #613 darthstar

I'd be concerned if it screamed the name of the mailman.

Nah. My wife does that!

615 garhighway  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:28:03am

re: #577 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

But... 40% of the people aren't paying any taxes at all!

I got that talking point from my financial adviser while having lunch with him one day. Opted not to get into the issue with him of how not all income is created equal when it comes to marginal utility.

the next time he brings it up ask him to think about total tax burden, not just Federal income tax.

616 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:28:07am

Here is some good news...

'Hero' Security Guard Released From Hospital After Shooting at FRC

The security guard hailed as a hero following a shooting at the Family Research Council has been released from the hospital, the FRC announced Friday.

Building manager Leo Johnson, who was filling in on security duty Aug. 15, wrestled a Sig Sauer 9 mm handgun away from a gunman even after being shot in the arm.

"I am thankfully now out of the hospital. My condition continues to improve although it appears another surgery will be needed," Johnson said in a statement. "I want to thank everyone for the support and prayers during my recovery. I thank the media for their interest but ask for their understanding of my family's desire for privacy as I focus on getting better."

The suspect in that incident, Floyd Lee Corkins II, has been charged with assault with intent to kill while armed, and interstate transportation of a firearm and ammunition.

617 Gus  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:29:10am
618 RogueOne  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:29:36am

re: #608 darthstar

It would seem the mayors biggest problem is officers with lousy aim.

619 Mattand  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:32:52am

re: #607 Gus

My response.

[Embedded content]

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

What a freaking nutjob.

620 Gus  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:32:52am

Ugh. Something weird here. Gotta call AT&T. BIAB

621 Kragar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:37:04am

NOM’s Brian Brown: Anti-Gay Christians Are The Powerless Victims, Not The Gay Community

Christian teaching and practice was never rooted in racism, but in the radical equality of all people and peoples before God. The American South, under slavery, was the exception to the rule—which is one reason why, when challenged, the belief that Christianity can justify not only slavery but also racism, failed abjectly and is now a dead idea. That was Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr.’s great triumph.

But sexual morality and marriage are quite different. Here we have the broad consistent sweep of the authoritative teaching of Christ and the Christian church he founded, recorded in the Bible, and in Christian teaching and practice across the centuries. Here we have something core to the Christian faith, and as I told Dan Savage, it’s not going to go away just because he doesn’t like it.[...]

Something about that dynamic captures what we all see at work at this point in the gay marriage debate. Power is being exercised by a minority, which denies it has the power it is exercising, and denies what we see happening in front of us: this power is being used to label and demonize all who disagree, no matter how relentlessly civilized we are, no matter that we uphold gay people’s real fundamental civil rights.

622 abolitionist  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:37:07am

re: #617 Gus

Image: 800px-NYC_murders.PNG

WTC victims apparently are not counted.

623 Kragar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:38:19am

Blackwell: Obama is 'Dead Set' on 'Destroying Families' and Replacing God

Today on Washington Watch Weekly, Family Research Council senior fellow Kenneth Blackwell, the Ohio Republican politician and one-time candidate for chairman of the Republican National Committee, chatted with FRC president Tony Perkins about the GOP’s adoption of an ultraconservative party platform. Blackwell said that the Republican platform offers a “direct contrast” with the vision of President Obama, whom Blackwell believes is “dead set” on “destroying families” and advancing the belief that “the family and God can be replaced by a supreme state government.” He contends that the Democrats have embraced ideas that are un-American and “run afoul of what the founders of this nation envisioned 237 years ago.”

624 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:39:39am

re: #617 Gus

Image: 800px-NYC_murders.PNG

I blame JFK. It must be the Catholics fault.
///

625 RogueOne  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:40:18am

Mitt Romney: ‘No one’s ever asked to see my birth certificate’
[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

COMMERCE, Mich. — Did Mitt Romney make a birther joke?

It sure seemed like it Friday morning as he made remarks before a crowd of more than 1,000 here in Michigan, the state where he was born and raised.

“I love being home, in this place where Ann and I were raised, where both of us were born,” Romney said as his wife, Ann, and Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) stood next to him on the podium.

“No one’s ever asked to see my birth certificate; they know that this is the place where both of us were born and raised,” he said.

Romney actually did release his birth certificate in May.

626 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:41:22am

re: #625 RogueOne

Mitt Romney: ‘No one’s ever asked to see my birth certificate’
[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

I just paged that. Whatta douchenozzle.

627 makeitstop  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:41:23am

Mitt has apparently hired Trump as a gag writer.

Romney cracks Birther joke

"I love being home, where but the both of us were born," Romney said after introducing his wife, fellow Michigan native Ann. "No one asked to see my birth certificate. They know this is where we were born and raised."

Asshole.

628 Lidane  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:41:27am

re: #625 RogueOne

Mitt Romney: ‘No one’s ever asked to see my birth certificate’
[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

629 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:42:22am

re: #627 makeitstop

joke my ass.

630 Kragar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:42:31am

re: #625 RogueOne

Mitt Romney: ‘No one’s ever asked to see my birth certificate’
[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

Another lie. A lot of Birther's were asking to see it because they said he might have been born in Mexico and would not be a "Natural Born Citizen" in their opinion.

631 RogueOne  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:42:38am

re: #626 Learned Mother of Zion

I just paged that. Whatta douchenozzle.

It wasn't a very good joke but the outrage it elicits should be fun.

632 Lidane  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:43:00am
633 Kragar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:43:51am

re: #632 Lidane

[Embedded content]

The entire campaign is a joke.

634 sagehen  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:44:39am

re: #599 RogueOne

Harry photos: Is it normal to drink and end up naked?
[Link: www.bbc.co.uk...]

Short answer: Yes.

So much for "what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas".

635 wrenchwench  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:44:59am
Bad news for cycling fans

I think my 1999 autographed box of Wheaties (with the Wheaties still in it) just went down in value.

Image: Wheaties-11.jpg

(That's not mine. Mine has Lance's autograph on it.)

636 Gus  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:47:08am

re: #622 abolitionist

WTC victims apparently are not counted.

Of course not.

637 Lidane  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:47:35am

re: #633 Kragar

The entire campaign is a joke.

And we haven't even gotten to the RNC yet. Wheee!

638 Gus  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:48:05am

re: #627 makeitstop

Mitt has apparently hired Trump as a gag writer.

Romney cracks Birther joke

Asshole.

Seriously? Damn. And they keep complaining about the way the Obama camp is running their campaign.

639 wrenchwench  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:48:15am
640 Kragar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:48:43am

Romney Covertly Collecting Voters’ Personal Information To Find Wealthy, Church-Going Donors

According to an investigation by the AP, Mitt Romney’s campaign has been using a tactic called “data mining” to cull personal information about random Americans, with the goal of finding and targeting potential donors through advertisement. Two primary pieces of information the Romney campaign seeks are “purchasing history and church attendance” of potential donors, indicating that they are looking for high-spenders.

The campaign is working with an outside firm to track down such data, which is usually used by big businesses that are trying to do targeted advertising. And, it seems, the data-mining program was kicked off at the behest of one of Romney’s former coworkers from Bain:

And this shit-talking pig fucker has a problem releasing his tax returns?

641 Decatur Deb  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:48:52am

re: #622 abolitionist

WTC victims apparently are not counted.

War on Terror

642 wrenchwench  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:48:56am

re: #638 Gus

Seriously? Damn. And they keep complaining about the way the Obama camp is running their campaign.

#futuremittjokes

643 Gus  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:50:42am
644 Lidane  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:50:50am
645 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:51:39am

not sure how to post my tweet so here it is:

#futuremittjokes his entire campaign, retroactively of course.

646 Sionainn  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:51:42am

re: #642 wrenchwench

#futuremittjokes

Ha! There are some good ones.

647 wrenchwench  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:52:04am
648 Lidane  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:53:11am
649 Gus  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:53:21am

That's fucked up.

650 dragonath  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:53:32am

re: #643 Gus

Thousands of maroons.

651 Eventual Carrion  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:53:58am

re: #627 makeitstop

Mitt has apparently hired Trump as a gag writer.

Romney cracks Birther joke

Asshole.

To which the prez replied, "So did I. And also years of tax forms.". Ball's back in your court Mitt.

652 Kragar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:54:22am

Mitt makes Mr. Bean look suave.

653 wrenchwench  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:54:28am

re: #645 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

not sure how to post my tweet so here it is:

#futuremittjokes his entire campaign, retroactively of course.

Go to your tweet, click on 'expand', click on 'details', copy the URL from that, post it on its own line here, and you're done.

654 Gus  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:55:10am

Hahahahaha!

655 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:55:23am

re: #653 wrenchwench

ty

656 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:55:59am

Martin Bashir pWns Trey Hardin yesterday:

[Link: www.mediaite.com...]

657 makeitstop  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:56:45am

Hm...University of Colorado tax law professor says Mitt cheated on his taxes.

Of course, he concluded this after studying the docs that were posted on Gawker, so it's automatically No Big Deal.
///

658 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:57:39am

re: #657 makeitstop

Hm...University of Colorado tax law professor says Mitt cheated on his taxes.

Of course, he concluded this after studying the docs that were posted on Gawker, so it's automoatically No Big Deal.
///

Yeah those documents don't show anything at all, nope, they're all a bunch of nothing, so says some guys blogging on CNN.

659 Lidane  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:57:58am
660 Gus  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:58:24am
661 Lidane  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:58:46am

Another day, another Limbaugh fail:

662 Lidane  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 10:00:00am

re: #658 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

Yeah those documents don't show anything at all, nope, they're all a bunch of nothing, so says some guys blogging on CNN.

I loved how some were so quick to dismiss 950 pages of anything just because Gawker dumped them online and crowdsourced them.

663 Kragar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 10:01:07am

re: #661 Lidane

Another day, another Limbaugh fail:

[Embedded content]

I wonder if being fed a steady stream of horseshit from conservatives pushes some people over the edge.

664 Lidane  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 10:01:40am
665 lawhawk  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 10:01:57am

re: #657 makeitstop

There's a ton of hedging in there and caveats that there are other tax practitioners who didn't find anything wrong with those kinds of compensation arrangements. His focus is on management fee conversions, and it was a practice employed widely during the period at issue.

Because the deals vary in their aggressiveness, there is some disagreement among practitioners about when it works and when it doesn’t. But in my opinion, and the opinion of many tax practitioners, the practices that were common in the private equity industry in the 2000s became very, very questionable, and it’s unlikely that they would have stood up in court.

So, he comes down on the side that it doesn't pass muster.

666 Eventual Carrion  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 10:02:05am

re: #663 Kragar

I wonder if being fed a steady stream of horseshit from conservatives pushes some people over the edge.

I'd put a bullseye icon on that.

667 Gus  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 10:02:21am
668 darthstar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 10:04:44am

Yay! Romney secured the Donald Trump and Orly Taitz vote! Stupid fucker.

669 Gus  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 10:04:55am

So I guess we've finally cleared the way for "magic underwear" jokes right?

670 abolitionist  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 10:05:29am

re: #669 Gus

Mine are invisible.

671 Gus  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 10:06:01am
672 makeitstop  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 10:07:05am

re: #669 Gus

So I guess we've finally cleared the way for "magic underwear" jokes right?

Sadly, Obama has way too much class to do that. Mitt would be ashamed of himself if he was capable of it, I'm sure.

673 Lidane  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 10:07:52am
674 Charles Johnson  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 10:08:20am

re: #405 Cannadian Club Akbar

Chicago Mayor and former White House Chief of Staff to President Barack Obama, Rahm Emanuel, has invited the controversial Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan to help in the city’s efforts to address the epidemic of crime that has engulfed it.
[Link: thenewamerican.com...]

Oh, good grief.

Now we're posting links to John Birch Society websites?

You know, this is a terrific way to lose an LGF account.

675 Charles Johnson  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 10:09:00am

And the JBS link gets up-dinged too. Wonderful.

676 Gus  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 10:10:35am

We should thank Mitt Romney for providing us more ammo.

677 Gus  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 10:12:41am
678 bratwurst  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 10:13:14am
679 blueraven  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 10:13:20am

The birther comment just shows how clueless Mitt Romney is.
I mean really, WTF was he thinking?

I dont know...either clueless or desperate.
Despicable in either case.

680 bratwurst  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 10:14:02am

re: #675 Charles Johnson

And the JBS link gets up-dinged too. Wonderful.

The wingnut morning wave is back!

681 Kragar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 10:14:08am

Fun Fact: The 2008 GOP Convention got hit by a hurricane as well.

ITS A SIGN, GUYS!

682 HappyWarrior  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 10:14:40am

At best Romney's lame joke is a shout out to idiots like Dinesh D'Sousa who believe that Obama doesn't believe in this country and its values. And that's at best. And this douche has the nerve to complain about Obama's campaign. E tu Mitt?

683 HappyWarrior  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 10:15:08am

re: #679 blueraven

The birther comment just shows how clueless Mitt Romney is.
I mean really, WTF was he thinking?

I dont know...either clueless or desperate.
Despicable in either case.

I really don't think he was thinking. He really is at his core a shallow human being.

684 Lidane  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 10:15:08am

re: #679 blueraven

The birther comment just shows how clueless Mitt Romney is.
I mean really, WTF was he thinking?

I dont know...either clueless or desperate.
Despicable in either case.

Mitt damn well knew what he was doing. He's just desperate.

Birthers and other bigots = the people that Mitt needs in order to win. He's openly pandering to their racism for votes.

685 garhighway  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 10:15:48am

re: #672 makeitstop

Sadly, Obama has way too much class to do that. Mitt would be ashamed of himself if he was capable of it, I'm sure.

MittBot 2.3 will have that feature.

686 Kragar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 10:16:04am

2008: Gustav changes but doesn't crash Republicans' party

Convention-goers pushed politics aside Monday as Hurricane Gustav altered their plans from 1,000 miles away.

The Republican National Convention scaled back its program after the uninvited guest forced them to shift focus to providing relief for areas affected by the storm.

687 HappyWarrior  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 10:16:10am

re: #661 Lidane

Another day, another Limbaugh fail:

[Embedded content]

Oh fuck you Rush so hard for trying to make a murderous nutcase about Obama. This guy will blame Obama for everything because he can't stand the fact that Obama's a more successful person than he'll ever be.

688 Interesting Times  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 10:16:39am

re: #684 Lidane

Birthers and other bigots = the people that Mitt needs in order to win. He's openly pandering to their racism for votes.

689 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 10:16:48am

re: #683 HappyWarrior

I really don't think he was thinking. He really is at his core a shallow human being.

There is an Intel processor at his core, not a human being.

690 Mocking Jay  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 10:18:06am

No one ever really asked to see Romney as president, either.

691 darthstar  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 10:18:55am

You have to ask yourself, "What the fuck was Romney thinking?" He's going into his convention next week, now, with the anchor of birtherism tied around his neck. Sunday news shows won't be about how awesome the convention's going to be for his campaign. They're going to be about his waving red meat to the racist base in his party.
Stupid, stupid fucker.

692 HappyWarrior  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 10:19:09am

re: #688 Interesting Times

[Embedded content]

Sigh. Seriously Romney should be ashamed of himself for pandering to these bigots. He's a disgusting and pathetic excuse for a human being. Anything to win right, Mitt?

693 blueraven  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 10:19:36am

re: #675 Charles Johnson

And the JBS link gets up-dinged too. Wonderful.

To be fair, the updinger probably didn't click on the link. It was a post dissing Rahm and tying it all to Obama...so it got a knee jerk Hell Yeah!

694 Charles Johnson  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 10:22:00am

re: #680 bratwurst

The wingnut morning wave is back!

Sure looks like it from this thread.

695 Charles Johnson  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 11:18:22am

re: #405 Cannadian Club Akbar

If it seems like I'm irritated as fuck that a John Birch Society link was posted at my site, it's because I am. You went looking for a cheap race-baiting article and you found it -- and your account is hanging by a thread.

696 ReamWorks SKG  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 2:19:40pm

I wonder if he'll lose his endorsement deals:

Image: 7157380585_6325450cdb_b.jpg

697 Joe Max  Fri, Aug 24, 2012 9:31:20pm

re: #74 What Would Spalding Gray Do?

Stranded, sitting on the toilet bowl
What do you do when you're stranded
And you ain't got a roll

Gotta prove you're a man
Gotta wipe it with your hand...


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