DNC Schedule for September 5: Featuring Bill Clinton and Elizabeth Warren

Politics • Views: 23,741

Here’s the schedule for today’s festivities at the Democratic National Convention, following Michelle Obama’s brilliant speech last night.

5:00 PM - 6:00 PM (LOCAL)
Call to Order
The Honorable Antonio R. Villaraigosa
Chair of the 2012 Democratic National Convention Committee
Mayor of Los Angeles, California

Invocation
Bishop Vashti Murphy McKenzie, 10th Episcopal District
First Woman Elected Bishop of the African Methodist Episcopal Church

Presentation of Colors

Pledge of Allegiance

National Anthem
Branford Marsalis
Saxophonist, Composer, and, Bandleader

Remarks
The Honorable Luis V. Gutierrez
Member of the US House of Representatives, Illinois
The Honorable Diana DeGette
Member of the US House of Representatives, Colorado

The Honorable John A. P�rez
Speaker and Member of the California State Assembly
The Honorable Thomas M. Menino
Mayor of Boston, Massachusetts
The Honorable Judy Chu
Member of the US House of Representatives, California
Steve Westly
Former State Controller and Chief Financial Officer of California

An Economy Built to Last Video: Small Business

Remarks
The Honorable John Larson
Democratic Caucus Chair and Member of the US House of Representatives, Connecticut
Ken Myers
Deputy Sheriff, Carroll County, Iowa

6:00 PM - 7:00 PM (LOCAL)

Remarks
Richard Trumka
President of the American Federation of Labor and Congress of Industrial Organizations (AFL-CIO)
The Honorable Steve Israel
Chair of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee
Member of the US House of Representatives, New York
The Honorable Patty Murray
Chair of the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee
Member of the US Senate, Washington
The Honorable Pedro R. Pierluisi
Chair of National Community Mobilization for the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee
Non-Voting Member of the US House of Representatives, Resident Commissioner of Puerto Rico

An Economy Build to Last Video: Energy

Remarks
Tom Steyer
Co-Founder of Advanced Energy Economy
The Honorable Charles E. Schumer
Member of the US Senate, New York

Remarks from Members of the Congressional Black Caucus

The Honorable Karen Bass
Member of the US House of Representatives, California
The Honorable Al Green
Member of the US House of Representatives, Texas
The Honorable Emanuel Cleaver, II
Chair of the Congressional Black Caucus and Member of the US House of Representatives, Missouri

Remarks
The Honorable Dannel Malloy
Governor of Connecticut

7:00 PM - 8:00 PM (LOCAL)
Remarks
Denise Juneau
Superintendent of the Montana Office of Public Instruction
The Honorable Nancy Pelosi
Democratic Leader and Member of the US House of Representatives, California
The Honorable Tom Vilsack

Women of the US Senate

Remarks
The Honorable Barbara Mikulski
Member of the US Senate, Maryland
The Honorable Arne Duncan

Progress for People Video: Education

American Voices Remarks
Johanny Adames

Remarks
The Honorable Jim Hunt
Former and Longest-Serving Governor of North Carolina

Remarks and Video Presentation in Memoriam
Presented by Harvey B. Gantt
Former Mayor of Charlotte, North Carolina

Live Performance
Jessica Sanchez
Singer/Songwriter

8:00 PM - 9:00 PM (LOCAL)

Stronger Together Video: Women’s Health

American Voices Remarks
Elizabeth Ann “Libby” Bruce

Remarks
Cecile Richards
President of Planned Parenthood Federation of America

The Honorable Steny Hoyer
Parliamentarian of the 2012 Democratic National Committee Convention
Democratic Whip and Member of the US House of Representatives, Maryland
The Honorable Barney Frank
Honorary Chair of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee GLBT Council
Member of the US House of Representatives, Massachusetts

American Heroes Video: Veterans

American Voices Remarks
Ed Meagher

Remarks
The Honorable General Eric Shinseki
The Honorable Michael Nutter
Mayor of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
The Honorable John Hickenlooper
Governor of Colorado
Sister Simone Campbell
Executive Director of Roman Catholic Social Justice Organization, NETWORK
The Honorable Jack Markell
Governor of Delaware

9:00 PM - 10:00 PM (LOCAL)

Remarks
The Honorable Karen Mills

Progress for People Video: Small Business

American Voices Remarks
Bill Butcher

Remarks
The Honorable Kamala D. Harris
Attorney General of California

Stronger Together Video: Immigration

Remarks
Benita Veliz
DREAM Act Activist
Cristina Saralegui
Journalist, Actress, and Talk Show Host
Sandra Fluke
Attorney and Women’s Rights Activist

Austin Ligon
Co-Founder and Former CEO of CarMax, Inc.

An Economy Build to Last Video: Auto-Industry

American Voices Remarks
Karen Eusanio

Remarks
Bob King
President of the International Union, United Automobile, Aerospace and Agricultural Implement Workers of America (UAW)
Randy Johnson, Cindy Hewitt, and David Foster
Former Employees at companies controlled by Romney’s Bain Capital

The Honorable Chris Van Hollen
Former Chair of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee
Member of the US House of Representatives, Maryland

10:00 PM - 11:00 PM (LOCAL)

Remarks
Jim Sinegal
Co-Founder and Former CEO of Costco
Elizabeth Warren
Candidate for US Senate, Massachusetts

Nomination Process Set-Up

Remarks
The Honorable Antonio R. Villaraigosa
Chair of the 2012 Democratic National Convention Committee
Mayor of Los Angeles, California
President Bill Clinton
42nd President of the United States

Closing Segment

Roll Call Vote
Alice Germond
Secretary of the Democratic National Committee

Benediction
Rabbi David Wolpe
Sinai Temple, Los Angeles, California

Retire Colors

Recess

Jump to bottom

118 comments
1 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 10:47:00am

Ryan caught lying....again....

2 Kragar  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 10:49:19am

Dems Scoff At GOP Taunts That Obama Couldn’t Fill Stadium

3 darthstar  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 10:52:34am

Romney campaign trying to walk back opinions of Mitt Romney...yeah, that's going to work.

4 Gus  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 10:53:06am

Mumbles obscenities to self.

5 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 10:54:02am

re: #3 darthstar

Romney campaign trying to walk back opinions of Mitt Romney...yeah, that's going to work.

[Embedded content]

Pick a fucking narrative already.

6 darthstar  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 10:54:33am
7 S'latch  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 10:54:42am

Does the era of Bill Clinton's presidency seem like really good times in retrospect? Was the presidency easier in his decade? He was blessed with luck in so many ways. I hope he gets to speak as long as he wants and gets to say everything on his mind, and he will be finished sometime tomorrow.

8 darthstar  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 10:54:57am

re: #5 HappyWarrior

Pick a fucking narrative already.

Look! No tan line!

9 darthstar  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 10:55:32am

7.6 in Costa Rica

10 Lidane  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 10:57:11am
11 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 10:58:14am

re: #10 Lidane

[Embedded content]

Clueless but these are the same guys who think you can balance the budget while increasing the defense budget and tax cuts. Really, why they're given credibility on fiscal issues should amuse anyone with a brain.

12 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:00:32am

re: #7 S'latch

Does the era of Bill Clinton's presidency seem like really good times in retrospect? Was the presidency easier in his decade? He was blessed with luck in so many ways. I hope he gets to speak as long as he wants and gets to say everything on his mind, and he will be finished sometime tomorrow.

It was easier because he didn't have to deal with a war, as George W. Bush had to do, nor a deep recession, as Barack Obama has had to do. Bill Clinton presided over a fairly prosperous time and benefits from the nostalgia attached to that time.

13 erik_t  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:00:58am

re: #10 Lidane

Romney adviser suggests address climate change with more defense spending thkpr.gs/UseJQv #seriously

But absolutely not if that military spending is related to sustainable fuels.

Then it's wasteful government fraud and it deserves the ax.

14 Coracle  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:01:57am

re: #11 HappyWarrior

Clueless but these are the same guys who think you can balance the budget while increasing the defense budget and tax cuts. Really, why they're given credibility on fiscal issues should amuse anyone with a brain.

I could see the rhetoric of declaring war on climate change. Better that than Iran. But you'll never hear it from either party. War against abstracts or generalities (poverty, drugs, obesity, terrorism) is easy to declare, impossible to win, and leads to national fatigue.

15 darthstar  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:02:25am

re: #12 Dark_Falcon

It was easier because he didn't have to deal with a war, as George W. Bush had to do, nor a deep recession, as Barack Obama has had to do. Bill Clinton presided over a fairly prosperous time and benefits from the nostalgia attached to that time.

Bill Clinton created a prosperous time by increasing taxes, funding domestic programs, and making it possible for the middle class to advance. He inherited a deficit and left a surplus.

16 erik_t  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:02:57am

re: #12 Dark_Falcon

It was easier because he didn't have to deal with a war, as George W. Bush had to do, nor a deep recession, as Barack Obama has had to do. Bill Clinton presided over a fairly prosperous time and benefits from the nostalgia attached to that time.

Bush 43 had to deal with wars that he started.

17 Coracle  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:04:13am

re: #16 erik_t

Bush 43 had to deal with wars that he started.

Another way of saying that is that he chose to deal with wars. He chose for all of us, too.

18 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:04:15am

re: #16 erik_t

Bush 43 had to deal with wars that he started.

I'm not so sure that I would classify the war in Afghanistan as something we started.

There had to be some reaction to the Twin Towers.

19 darthstar  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:04:54am

re: #16 erik_t

Bush 43 had to deal with wars that he started.

No, the problem with Bush 43 is that he started the wars, but didn't deal with them in a responsible manner. He cooked the books by not including the cost of wars in his budgets, and made no plan to pay for them. Instead, he doubled down on the cost of the war by adding trillions in tax cuts to the deficit.

20 Big Steve  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:05:17am

re: #15 darthstar

Bill Clinton created a prosperous time by increasing taxes, funding domestic programs, and making it possible for the middle class to advance. He inherited a deficit and left a surplus.

The dot.com boom didn't hurt either.

21 The Ghost of a Flea  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:05:51am

Minnesota’s attack on gay marriage

...and the fatally flawed Regnerus is being hauled out again as an excuse to discriminate against homosexuals.

This is what happens when you have people who don't have critical thinking, or who scorn critical thinking because it doesn't service their ends. Words like science and fact-checking become magical Truth-making shamanic rites rather than reasoned processes that can be stripped apart and tested for validity.

22 darthstar  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:06:09am

re: #18 Mostly sane, most of the time.

I'm not so sure that I would classify the war in Afghanistan as something we started.

There had to be some reaction to the Twin Towers.

The War in Afghanistan would have been over by 2005 if we hadn't lost focus on it and added the War in Iraq. We started short-changing the troops in Afghanistan in 2003.

23 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:07:38am

re: #22 darthstar

The War in Afghanistan would have been over by 2005 if we hadn't lost focus on it and added the War in Iraq. We started short-changing the troops in Afghanistan in 2003.

re: #22 darthstar

The War in Afghanistan would have been over by 2005 if we hadn't lost focus on it and added the War in Iraq. We started short-changing the troops in Afghanistan in 2003.

The management of the wars is not the issue I was addressing. It was the question of whether we started two wars.

We never would have gone into Afghanistan on our own.

24 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:07:38am

Fact check mania continues!
CNN Fact Check: About those 4.5 million jobs

Fact check: Dems embellish Obama's record

Speakers at the Democratic National Convention portrayed President Barack Obama's presidency in glowing terms Tuesday evening, but sometimes left out important details or embellished his record.

It is nice to see methodical fact checking. I don't remember this in previous election years.

25 Kragar  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:08:29am

re: #10 Lidane

[Embedded content]

Funny. Every time the DOD tried to spend money on the issue, Congress stopped them for wasting money on climate issues.

26 Lidane  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:08:29am

re: #19 darthstar

No, the problem with Bush 43 is that he started the wars, but didn't deal with them in a responsible manner. He cooked the books by not including the cost of wars in his budgets, and made no plan to pay for them. Instead, he doubled down on the cost of the war by adding trillions in tax cuts to the deficit.

THIS.

If they hadn't pushed through tax cuts during a war we'd likely be in better shape. Who the FUCK cuts revenue when your outlays have suddenly increased by several orders of magnitude because of two wars? A bunch of idiots, that's who.

27 erik_t  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:08:33am

re: #18 Mostly sane, most of the time.

I'm not so sure that I would classify the war in Afghanistan as something we started.

There had to be some reaction to the Twin Towers.

Yes, but wiping away the Taliban was not a ten-year task.

28 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:09:07am

re: #22 darthstar

This from the lefties who now moan about how we can't fix Afghanistan. As far as I'm concerned we should have just mounted a decapitation campaign in Afghanistan and then put all our focus on Iraq. That would have given us the best shot at a meaningful victory.

29 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:09:40am

re: #27 erik_t

Yes, but wiping away the Taliban was not a ten-year task.

No, it's a multi-generational task.

Starts with better schooling and some serious re-tooling of certain cultural trends, like selling your daughters.

30 Lidane  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:09:59am

re: #28 Dark_Falcon

Except that Iraq was entirely a war of choice. And what standard of "meaningful victory" is there? Should we have nuked Baghdad preemptively?

32 Gus  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:10:32am

re: #24 Killgore Trout

Fact check mania continues!
CNN Fact Check: About those 4.5 million jobs

Fact check: Dems embellish Obama's record

It is nice to see methodical fact checking. I don't remember this in previous election years.

33 Coracle  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:10:50am

re: #28 Dark_Falcon

This from the lefties who now moan about how we can't fix Afghanistan. As far as I'm concerned we should have just mounted a decapitation campaign in Afghanistan and then put all our focus on Iraq. That would have given us the best shot at a meaningful victory.

Yeah, but your guys decided not to do that. We got this instead from their 'leadership'.

34 Targetpractice  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:11:06am

re: #28 Dark_Falcon

This from the lefties who now moan about how we can't fix Afghanistan. As far as I'm concerned we should have just mounted a decapitation campaign in Afghanistan and then put all our focus on Iraq. That would have given us the best shot at a meaningful victory.

And what reason was there to go to war with Iraq, besides "Saddam is not a very nice guy?"

35 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:11:10am

Who will fact check the fact checkers?

36 erik_t  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:11:44am

re: #28 Dark_Falcon

This from the lefties who now moan about how we can't fix Afghanistan. As far as I'm concerned we should have just mounted a decapitation campaign in Afghanistan and then put all our focus on Iraq. That would have given us the best shot at a meaningful victory.

As far as I'm concerned the correct amount of focus on Iraq was zero.

38 erik_t  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:12:41am

re: #31 Charles Johnson

Fact-Wreck: CNN Subjects Democratic Convention to 'Reality Check' Based on a Lie

The Washington Post's Feckless 'Fact-Check'

BIPARTISAN WAR ON FACTS!!1

39 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:13:03am

re: #27 erik_t

Yes, but wiping away the Taliban was not a ten-year task.

It is mostly because they continue to have safe havens in Pakistan. As long as an insurgency has safe haven areas, it is almost impossible to end unless you kill or capture its top leaders. and it was not until late in the Bush presidency when the CIA had finally recovered and drone technology progress to the point that such targeted tactics could be used.

40 Four More Tears  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:13:36am

re: #28 Dark_Falcon

This from the lefties who now moan about how we can't fix Afghanistan. As far as I'm concerned we should have just mounted a decapitation campaign in Afghanistan and then put all our focus on Iraq. That would have given us the best shot at a meaningful victory.

Why didn't we do this from '02 to '08?

41 jaunte  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:13:40am

We are all fact-checkers now.

42 blueraven  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:14:25am

re: #18 Mostly sane, most of the time.

I'm not so sure that I would classify the war in Afghanistan as something we started.

There had to be some reaction to the Twin Towers.

I dont have a problem with a reaction to 9/11. Just not sure this was the best response. Iraq is a whole other story.

43 Gus  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:14:34am

Stand by for incoming artillery!

44 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:14:48am

re: #41 jaunte

We are all fact-checkers now.

But who is going to fact check us?

45 Lidane  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:14:52am

re: #36 erik_t

As far as I'm concerned the correct amount of focus on Iraq was zero.

Agreed.

The war in Iraq was nothing but Dubya's unresolved issues because Daddy was smart enough NOT to invade. Afghanistan? That made some sense, since we had to respond to 9/11 somehow, but Iraq has totally been a war of choice.

46 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:14:55am

re: #41 jaunte

We are all fact-checkers now.

We should have been all along.

The responsibility to be informed is yours, and you can't pawn it off.

(Yes, I know, I sound like a mom giving you a lecture. Guess what? I'm a mom giving you a lecture.)

47 Big Steve  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:15:12am

re: #41 jaunte

We are all fact-checkers now.

Right and we all get to issue our report on Nov 6!

48 Coracle  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:15:19am

re: #43 Gus

That, even in wild claim form, was only a matter of time.

49 The Ghost of a Flea  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:15:26am

re: #28 Dark_Falcon

This from the lefties who now moan about how we can't fix Afghanistan. As far as I'm concerned we should have just mounted a decapitation campaign in Afghanistan and then put all our focus on Iraq. That would have given us the best shot at a meaningful victory.

So we could have won the War on Terror by redefining the War on Terror into the War on Iraq?

Ingenious.

50 Interesting Times  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:16:32am
51 Lidane  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:16:46am

I have to agree with this. It was sweet to hear her articulate the idea of the personal as political, and to make a damned good case for it. I'm sure the nutters and wingnuts were derping about it when she did it, too.

52 blueraven  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:16:57am

re: #24 Killgore Trout

Fact check mania continues!
CNN Fact Check: About those 4.5 million jobs

Fact check: Dems embellish Obama's record

It is nice to see methodical fact checking. I don't remember this in previous election years.

When you start fact checking Romney/Ryan once in a while, maybe people will take you seriously.

53 Gus  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:16:58am

re: #48 Coracle

That, even in wild claim form, was only a matter of time.

Yep. I can see it now though. "LIBERALS hack Mitt Romney's tax returns because that's how they are!!11ty"

54 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:18:12am

re: #40 Mocking Jay

Why didn't we do this from '02 to '08?

We (because I believed it at the time, same as George W.) believe we could handle both tasks at once. And I thought it was going in the right direction till the Golden Mosque was destroyed. The intersectarian violence that broke out in the aftermath of that bombing put paid to the idea that we could "stay the course" in my mind. But I was still happy to see the Iraq surge and I feel it let us leave Iraq with honor and gave Iraq a real chance.

55 Gus  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:18:27am

Speaking of lies. The Romney camp is still at it...

56 Coracle  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:18:43am

re: #53 Gus

Though I have to say, trying to ransom their release for money is crazy moronic. Makes me think it's a straight up lie.

57 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:18:59am

re: #31 Charles Johnson

Fact-Wreck: CNN Subjects Democratic Convention to 'Reality Check' Based on a Lie

The Washington Post's Feckless 'Fact-Check'

I'm shocked that a senior fellow for the Center for American Progress is upset that Dems are being fact checked too.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
Of course the partisan activists get upset when they're subject to the same fact checking as their opponents but I'm glad the media is doing the work anyways.

58 erik_t  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:19:15am

I'll go ahead and say it: it's very, very wrong to hack into private information systems in order to gain personal information about someone.

59 Interesting Times  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:19:52am

re: #53 Gus

I wondered if this would happen. It seems the more Romney resisted requests to release his tax returns, the more likely it was a hacker group would respond as such.

60 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:20:16am

re: #43 Gus

Stand by for incoming artillery!

[Embedded content]

Interesting but not legal. Beware the ratfuckers. There are shenanigans about.

61 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:20:19am

re: #49 The Ghost of a Flea

So we could have won the War on Terror by redefining the War on Terror into the War on Iraq?

Ingenious.

It's the Arab world that is the fountainhead of Radical Islam. Shut down that fountain, and whatever pools remain on the periphery will be much easier to handle.

62 Targetpractice  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:20:22am

re: #43 Gus

Stand by for incoming artillery!

[Embedded content]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's probably a hoax. And even if not, the returns are practically useless if released and would quickly be dubbed "fruit of the poisonous tree."

63 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:20:54am

Pretty cool pics...

Images from the 2012 Democratic National Convention

64 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:20:59am

Right on schedule:

65 erik_t  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:21:20am

re: #61 Dark_Falcon

It's the Arab world that is the fountainhead of Radical Islam. Shut down that fountain, and whatever pools remain on the periphery will be much easier to handle.

What a bunch of goddamned baloney. We should have invaded Saudi Arabia, then.

66 Coracle  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:21:30am

re: #61 Dark_Falcon

It's the Arab world that is the fountainhead of Radical Islam. Shut down that fountain, and whatever pools remain on the periphery will be much easier to handle.

Lovely metaphor. Do you mean, by chance turning the fountain to glass?

67 danarchy  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:21:49am

re: #16 erik_t

Bush 43 had to deal with wars that he started.

I'll give you Iraq, but Afghanistan was started by 19 douchebags crashing planes into buildings and then the government of Afghanistan protecting the grand douchebag in charge. Support for going into Afghanistan was overwhelming both in congress and by the public.

68 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:22:13am

Osama bin Laden is better off than he was 4 years ago, though he might disagree.

69 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:22:14am

re: #52 blueraven

When you start fact checking Romney/Ryan once in a while, maybe people will take you seriously.

You have a selective memory. The fact checkers were are good last week as they are this week. Not perfect but still reliable despite the political affiliation of who they're checking.

70 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:23:58am

re: #57 Killgore Trout

I'm shocked that a senior fellow for the Center for American Progress is upset that Dems are being fact checked too.

Probably as shocked as I am that you're citing the hack Glenn Kessler again.

71 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:24:37am

re: #70 Charles Johnson

Probably as shocked as I am that you're citing the hack Glenn Kessler again.

I like him.

72 Lidane  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:24:51am

re: #61 Dark_Falcon

It's the Arab world that is the fountainhead of Radical Islam. Shut down that fountain, and whatever pools remain on the periphery will be much easier to handle.

Great! So when do we nuke Riyadh, since most of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudi?

73 jaunte  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:25:00am
Kessler speculates that “Ryan was so quickly labeled a fibber by the Obama campaign that one suspects it was a deliberate effort to tear down his reputation as a policy expert, similar to using attacks on Romney’s Bain Capital record to undermine his reputation as a skilled business executive.” Amazingly, Kessler doesn’t even pause to consider the possibility that Ryan was “so quickly labeled a fibber” because he was fibbing.
[Link: www.thenation.com...]

Well, yes, there was that.

74 blueraven  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:25:12am

re: #69 Killgore Trout

You have a selective memory. The fact checkers were are good last week as they are this wekk. Not perfect but still reliable despite the political affiliation of who they're checking.

Oh...so you posted links to those fact checks?

75 Lidane  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:26:06am
76 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:26:17am

re: #74 blueraven

Oh...so you posted links to those fact checks?

Yes. If you search my history you'll find them.

77 Targetpractice  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:26:35am

re: #67 danarchy

I'll give you Iraq, but Afghanistan was started by 19 douchebags crashing planes into buildings and then the government of Afghanistan protecting the grand douchebag in charge. Support for going into Afghanistan was overwhelming both in congress and by the public.

Does it need to be pointed out that not one of those 19 hijackers was Afghan? Or that the government of Afghanistan was calling for us to provide evidence of OBL's guilt before turning him over, as we'd demand of any nation that wished to extradite a foreign national on US soil? Or that OBL spent the better part of the last 11 years chilling in Pakistan, under the government's protection?

78 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:26:50am

In the 1858 Illinois senatorial election, Senator Douglas was met with a triumphant torchlight parade at one of his stops. (He was debating this other guy, who lost. I forget his name.*)

One newspaper reported 74 torches. One reported a thousand.

Someone was lying, obviously.

Nothing changes.

*Well, duh, obviously, I didn't forget his name, I was just being cutesy.

79 The Ghost of a Flea  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:26:56am

re: #61 Dark_Falcon

It's the Arab world that is the fountainhead of Radical Islam. Shut down that fountain, and whatever pools remain on the periphery will be much easier to handle.

Except the fountainhead is Saudi Arabia, not Iraq.

And Iraqis are not Arabs culturally or genetically.

And Saddam Hussein, while insane and horrid in a thousand ways, was not prone to use fundamentalist Islam as a driver, since his country was split between Shia and Sunni components; indeed, his primary propagandic drive was for ethnic solidarity amongst the Iraqi peoples, and in particular pride in a connection to Babylon and the Fertile Cresecent.

80 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:27:02am

re: #76 Killgore Trout

Yes. If you search my history you'll find them.

As Charles noted earlier, I like the fact checkers and link to them frequently.

81 blueraven  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:28:07am

re: #76 Killgore Trout

Yes. If you search my history you'll find them.

If you say so...I'll take your word for it.

82 makeitstop  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:28:28am

re: #34 Targetpractice

And what reason was there to go to war with Iraq, besides "Saddam is not a very nice guy?"

'He tried to kill my dad!'

Also, 'smoking gun = mushroom cloud.'
/

83 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:29:22am

re: #28 Dark_Falcon

DF, there was a legitimate war to be fought in Afghanistan.

There was no legitimacy to the war of choice in Iraq.

84 aagcobb  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:30:05am

re: #58 erik_t

I'll go ahead and say it: it's very, very wrong to hack into private information systems in order to gain personal information about someone.

Its wrong, and if they did get Romney's tax returns, they performed a public service Romney should've already done.

85 Gus  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:30:23am
86 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:30:27am

Just a strategy thought: Although there is a bipartisan war on facts there is no cooperation. The fact checkers could easily be discredited if the two sides worked together (pointing out factual errors from the checkers regardless of partisanship) but that's not going to happen. Partisans will always still to their side and the fact checkers will maintain credibility.

87 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:30:55am

re: #62 Targetpractice

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's probably a hoax. And even if not, the returns are practically useless if released and would quickly be dubbed "fruit of the poisonous tree."

Exactly. There would be immediate reasons to doubt their authenticity.

88 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:31:48am

re: #66 Coracle

Lovely metaphor. Do you mean, by chance turning the fountain to glass?

No, sir. I had thought I had made that point clear.

89 Targetpractice  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:31:52am

re: #86 Killgore Trout

Just a strategy thought: Although there is a bipartisan war on facts there is no cooperation. The fact checkers could easily be discredited if the two sides worked together (pointing out factual errors from the checkers regardless of partisanship) but that's not going to happen. Partisans will always still to their side and the fact checkers will maintain credibility.

Ah, I see the MBF is right on time.

90 jaunte  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:32:26am

re: #86 Killgore Trout

there is a bipartisan war on facts

There is some discussion as each assertion is examined, but I think calling it a war on facts is not factual.

91 Bulworth  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:33:13am

...

92 makeitstop  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:33:25am

re: #89 Targetpractice

Ah, I see the MBF is right on time.

Poor thing needs a vacation.

93 Coracle  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:33:25am

re: #88 Dark_Falcon

No, sir. I had thought I had made that point clear.

Sorry. What you actually want to do to still that fountainhead is still not clear to me.

94 dragonfire1981  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:34:18am

National Anthem
Branford Marsalis
Saxophonist, Composer, and, Bandleader

I think Fox News wrecked my brain. At first i read that as: Marxophonist, Composer, and, Bandleader.

95 Bulworth  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:34:29am

re: #24 Killgore Trout

Fact check mania continues!
CNN Fact Check: About those 4.5 million jobs

Fact check: Dems embellish Obama's record


It is nice to see methodical fact checking. I don't remember this in previous election years.

Ah well, you know, some people just have different ideas, that's all....

96 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:35:12am

re: #77 Targetpractice

Does it need to be pointed out that not one of those 19 hijackers was Afghan? Or that the government of Afghanistan was calling for us to provide evidence of OBL's guilt before turning him over, as we'd demand of any nation that wished to extradite a foreign national on US soil? Or that OBL spent the better part of the last 11 years chilling in Pakistan, under the government's protection?

That meant nothing, and should have meant nothing. The Taliban were not in a position to make demands, and to have spoken to them beyond an ultimatum would have been to concede a legitimacy they had not earned. They allowed Al-Qaeda within their borders and were thus justly overthrown.

97 Political Atheist  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:35:17am

re: #24 Killgore Trout

Never mind CNN. Try the real professional fact checkers.
[Link: factcheck.org...]
[Link: factcheck.org...]

98 Four More Tears  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:36:59am

re: #96 Dark_Falcon

That meant nothing, and should have meant nothing. The Taliban were not in a position to make demands, and to have spoken to them beyond an ultimatum would have been to concede a legitimacy they had not earned. They allowed Al-Qaeda within their borders and were thus justly overthrown.

Yeah. I mean, all we did was arm them...

99 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:37:20am

re: #86 Killgore Trout

Glenn Kessler has demonstrated many times to my complete satisfaction that he indulges in false equivalence, and bends over backwards to give a pass to right wingers, while holding left wingers to a much higher standard -- and even sometimes, flat out distorting the truth and implying dishonesty on the part of the Obama campaign when they're being totally factual. Eric Alterman points out one such example in the article I linked, but I don't expect you to read it because it won't confirm your bias.

This isn't a partisan opinion, it's an opinion based on critical thinking about what I read.

Politifact has more credibility than Kessler, but they also suffer from this weird need to be "balanced" even if they have to bend the truth to do it.

This is why people don't trust the fact checkers any more than other media. Because they ARE the media, and they have an agenda -- to promote the political horse race with the fiction that they're "unbiased."

100 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:37:54am

re: #97 Daniel Ballard

Never mind CNN. Try the real professional fact checkers.
[Link: factcheck.org...]
[Link: factcheck.org...]

An example from Factcheck:

Social Security Mythology

Rep. James Clyburn exaggerated when he said “Democrats created Social Security” without Republican support in 1935. The fact is, despite some early Republican opposition, Congress overwhelmingly approved the proposal with strong bipartisan support. And President Franklin D. Roosevelt signed the bill into law within seven months of its introduction — in stark contrast to the protracted partisan battle over Obama’s health care law.

Echoing John F. Kennedy’s 1960 acceptance speech — in which JFK said, “We are not here to curse the darkness; we are here to light a candle” — Clyburn said:

Clyburn: When too many of our senior citizens were living their golden years in the darkness of economic insecurity, Franklin Roosevelt and Democrats created Social Security, lighting a candle while Republicans cursed the darkness.

The historical comparison, however, does not hold up.

The Social Security Act of 1935 was a result of the Committee on Economic Security, a Cabinet-level committee created by President Franklin D. Roosevelt on June 29, 1934. On Jan. 17, 1935, two days after the committee issued its final report, Roosevelt proposed the “Financial Security Act of 1935,” and it was introduced in Congress the same day.

For sure, there was opposition to the legislation.

Sen. Daniel Hastings, a Delaware Republican, warned that it would “end the progress of a great country,” as the New York Times reported. But Hastings was in the minority, even within his own party, when it came to voting on the bill — which was renamed the “Social Security Act of 1935″ in committee.

The Social Security Administration website shows that the Social Security Act of 1935 passed with bipartisan support in both chambers — 372-33 in the House and 77-6 in the Senate — in April and June of 1935, respectively.

In the House, 81 Republicans voted for it, and an equal number of Republicans and Democrats – just 15 from each party – voted against it. In the Senate, 16 Republicans voted for it, and only five against, including Hastings.

Both houses gave final approval to the bill by voice vote on Aug. 8, 1935. Roosevelt signed the bill into law Aug. 14, 1935 — just seven months after it was introduced.

101 Gus  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:38:19am

re: #97 Daniel Ballard

Never mind CNN. Try the real professional fact checkers.
[Link: factcheck.org...]
[Link: factcheck.org...]

So the Republicans get "retreads" while the Democrats get DISINFORMATION!

Got it.

102 jaunte  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:38:46am

re: #97 Daniel Ballard

Romney has yet to provide details of just how he would manage to avoid either losing revenues (and thus increasing the deficit) or shifting the tax burden onto middle-income taxpayers. But as things stand, he’s promised that neither will happen, and Democrats who accuse him of proposing a middle-income tax increase are misrepresenting what he’s said.
[Link: factcheck.org...]

This is just silly.

103 Gus  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:38:56am

re: #100 Dark_Falcon

An example from Factcheck:

He EXAGGERATED!

104 Targetpractice  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:39:56am

re: #96 Dark_Falcon

That meant nothing, and should have meant nothing. The Taliban were not in a position to make demands, and to have spoken to them beyond an ultimatum would have been to concede a legitimacy they had not earned. They allowed Al-Qaeda within their borders and were thus justly overthrown.

And what did the Taliban and Al-Q do but move next door into the borders of our "ally" and proceed to wage a 10+ year long guerrilla war because our "ally" is a nuclear-armed nation that has our gun to one side of his head and the Taliban's to the other?

105 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:42:42am

re: #100 Dark_Falcon

Yep, Clyburn exaggerated when he implied Social Security was passed without GOP support. That's pretty much standard political spin.

It doesn't even come close to the level of the Romney campaign's outright lies - for example, the "WE DID BUILD THIS" idiocy and the totally false claim that Obama removed the work requirements from welfare.

Not. Even. Close.

106 Gus  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:43:32am

re: #105 Charles Johnson

Yep, Clyburn exaggerated when he implied Social Security was passed without GOP support. That's pretty much standard political spin.

It doesn't even come close to the level of the Romney campaign's outright lies - for example, the "WE DID BUILD THIS" idiocy and the totally false claim that Obama removed the work requirements from welfare.

Not. Even. Close.

I think Factcheck has discovered a new audience.

107 efuseakay  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:45:40am

re: #61 Dark_Falcon

It's the Arab world that is the fountainhead of Radical Islam. Shut down that fountain, and whatever pools remain on the periphery will be much easier to handle.

And how do you propose we "shut down that fountain"? Shall we invade Iraq again?

108 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:46:13am

re: #103 Gus

He EXAGGERATED!

No, he was dishonest. To have said that FDR 'lit the candle' was correct, but the great majority of the GOP chose to follow his lead in the matter. If they cursed anything at the time it was more likely Herbert Hoover.

109 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:47:44am
Live Performance
Jessica Sanchez
Singer/Songwriter

She's no Etta James -- yet.

Youtube Video

She won't be doing this one:

Youtube Video

Branford's got that one covered.

110 aagcobb  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:49:23am

re: #102 jaunte

This is just silly.

What they should have said is that Romney cannot keep all his promises; we just don't know for sure at this time which one he will break.

111 Gus  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:50:38am

re: #108 Dark_Falcon

No, he was dishonest. To have said that FDR 'lit the candle' was correct, but the great majority of the GOP chose to follow his lead in the matter. If they cursed anything at the time it was more likely Herbert Hoover.

In that case...

The Republican Party...

the party that helped bring you Social Security.

112 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:57:46am

re: #57 Killgore Trout

Why do you automatically believe factcheckers? Why give up your ability to independently analyze stuff, just because some media guy crowned himself a fact-checker?

I don't get it.

113 Political Atheist  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:01:11pm

re: #101 Gus

I think you will find plenty of negative headlines about the GOP convention at factcheck, which BTW is funded by Annenberg project, not a newspaper or media corp.

114 palomino  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:41:55pm

re: #28 Dark_Falcon

This from the lefties who now moan about how we can't fix Afghanistan. As far as I'm concerned we should have just mounted a decapitation campaign in Afghanistan and then put all our focus on Iraq. That would have given us the best shot at a meaningful victory.

Well, your heroes in the Bush Administration didn't do that; instead, they fucked up...badly. So badly that no one in your party even wants to talk about either war any longer (as could be seen at the convention, where the only person who mentioned Afghanistan was an old movie star who hadn't read the RNC script.)

So don't lay this clusterfuck at the feet of lefties; that's a bullshit dodge. Take some of the responsibility your party is always touting with respect to the wars they got us into.

115 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:47:40pm

re: #79 The Ghost of a Flea

And Iraqis are not Arabs culturally or genetically.

I think you're thinking of Iran. The Iraqi population is 75-80% Arab (Wikipedia), with a sizable Kurdish minority.

116 Eventual Carrion  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:48:30pm

re: #28 Dark_Falcon

This from the lefties who now moan about how we can't fix Afghanistan. As far as I'm concerned we should have just mounted a decapitation campaign in Afghanistan and then put all our focus on Iraq. That would have given us the best shot at a meaningful victory.

There was no need to go into Iraq in the first place.

117 Destro  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 9:11:52am

re: #22 darthstar

The War in Afghanistan would have been over by 2005 if we hadn't lost focus on it and added the War in Iraq. We started short-changing the troops in Afghanistan in 2003.

We were already planning Iraq even before the Afghanistan operation. We had no forces available to go take Tora Bora because they were being husbanded for Iraq.

And Osama was able to slip away and live in mocking peace for a decade more.

118 Destro  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 9:16:55am

re: #77 Targetpractice

Does it need to be pointed out that not one of those 19 hijackers was Afghan? Or that the government of Afghanistan was calling for us to provide evidence of OBL's guilt before turning him over, as we'd demand of any nation that wished to extradite a foreign national on US soil? Or that OBL spent the better part of the last 11 years chilling in Pakistan, under the government's protection?

Ditto.

And if anyone thinks that the Taliban would not have arrested Bin Laden, we should point out the Taliban were in discussions with the USA on oil pipeline routes and were in the USA to negotiate.


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