1 Targetpractice  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:28:52am

Classy woman. I still feel very much honored to have her as First Lady.

2 Lidane  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:31:32am

She's awesome. This was a hell of a barn burner speech.

Michelle Obama is an amazing FLOTUS. She does this country proud, no matter what the nutters and wingnuts think.

3 dragonfire1981  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:34:59am

Did she mention Ann Romney at all?

4 Lidane  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:36:11am
5 Big Steve  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:36:35am

I have actually thought that out of the last four Presidents (Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama) their wives were the real talent in the family.

6 Coracle  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:37:36am

re: #5 Big Steve

I have actually thought that out of the last four Presidents (Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama) their wives were the real talent in the family.

I wouldn't mind testing that theory with two of them.

7 Big Steve  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:39:59am

re: #6 Coracle

I wouldn't mind testing that theory with two of them.

Which two? Are you going to argue that Barbara and Laura Bush were not more talented that George and George?

8 Bulworth  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:40:39am

BTW, are all the faithful, true conservatives still being gulaged in teh Twitter? //

9 Mocking Jay  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:40:51am

re: #7 Big Steve

Which two? Are you going to argue that Barbara and Laura Bush were not more talented that George and George?

No. They're saying they want one of them to run for Pres. Jeez...

10 Lidane  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:41:32am

El Rushbo is bleating again:

11 Coracle  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:41:35am

re: #7 Big Steve

Which two? Are you going to argue that Barbara and Laura Bush were not more talented that George and George?

Heh. No, I think they'd have both made better presidents than either George. But I don't think either of them would have made good presidents.

12 Big Steve  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:41:39am

re: #9 Mocking Jay

No. They're saying they want one of them to run for Pres. Jeez...

Oh I get it now!

13 engineer cat  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:42:46am

fucked news cheerfully announces the truth in full knowledge that nobody pays attention to boring stuff like numbers and facts hahahaha when's the game on

Thanks to their pro-business approach and the anemic recovery, Republicans would seem to have a clear path to grab the economic mantle heading into the 2012 race for the White House.

However, history actually shows that the U.S. economy, stock prices and corporate profits have generated stronger growth under Democratic administrations than Republican ones.

According to McGraw-Hill’s (MHP: 51.72, +0.24, +0.48%) S&P Capital IQ, the S&P 500 has rallied an average of 12.1% per year since 1901 when Democrats occupy the White House, compared with just 5.1% for the GOP.

Likewise, gross domestic product has increased 4.2% each year since 1949 when Democrats run the executive branch, versus 2.6% under Republicans.

Even corporate profits show a disparity: S&P 500 GAAP earnings per share climbed a median of 10.5% per year since 1936 during Democratic administrations, besting an 8.9% median advance under Republicans, S&P said.

Due to their “tax-and-spend” reputation, investors expect Democratic administrations to underperform Republican ones and be “poison to any portfolio,” Sam Stovall, chief equity strategist at S&P Capital IQ, wrote in a note. “History shows the opposite to be true, however.”

14 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:42:51am

re: #2 Lidane

She's awesome. This was a hell of a barn burner speech.

Michelle Obama is an amazing FLOTUS. She does this country proud, no matter what the nutters and wingnuts think.

Not a "barn burner" at all. that sort of speech is marked by a good bit of hostility, while Michelle Obama was going for a "high road" approach, as is normal for first ladies. She gave an excellent speech, that cannot be denied, but to call it a "barn burner" is an error in terminology.

15 erik_t  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:46:22am

re: #10 Lidane

El Rushbo is bleating again:

[Embedded content]

No better source of insight into the female mind than a grumpy old man.

16 Mocking Jay  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:48:20am
17 simoom  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:49:21am

re: #798 Gus

Wingnut nontroversy of the say seems to be the venue change for Obama's speech.

Just this morning, right before the announcement, the Political press was concern trolling the potential bad weather:

[Politico] DNC 2012: Rainy forecast for Obama’s speech

(9/5/12 7:19 AM EDT) The weather is threatening to become a factor at the Democratic National Convention as possible thunderstorms could disrupt President Barack Obama’s expected outdoor address on Thursday evening.

The Weather Channel currently forecasts that there is a 40 percent chance of rain Thursday night and there are fears about possible lightning.

Currently in Charlotte, it’s overcast with a 60 percent chance of precipitation Wednesday.

...

Democrats have said they have a contingency plan to move the speech if necessary.

There was much talk during the Republican National Convention that the optics of holding a celebratory gathering during Hurricane Isaac were bad. But the sight of soaked, dreary convention-goers during Obama’s acceptance speech wouldn’t be much better.

Just a couple hours later they turn on a dime and include the GOP weather skepticism in most of their venue change write-ups.

18 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:49:22am

re: #15 erik_t

No better source of insight into the female mind than a grumpy old man. drug-addicted, angry, misogynistic old douche bag

19 Mocking Jay  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:49:49am

Holy shit, we have a breach! The wingularity has been breached!

20 The Ghost of a Flea  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:51:04am

re: #10 Lidane

El Rushbo is bleating again:

Straw feminists in the closet.

(If you're not familiar with Kate Beaton, she's hilarious, especially her comics about history and literature.)

21 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:53:20am
22 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:55:22am

Wow, I didn't realize they were blackmailing Romney
Hackers: Ransom for Romney Returns

Maybe he should have released them earlier in the election cycle. A team of hackers claims to have obtained Mitt Romney’s tax returns and say the documents will be released at the end of September unless the candidate transfers $1 million in Bitcoins, an online currency. The group allegedly stole the files from Pricewaterhouse Cooper’s Tennessee office on Aug. 25. If Romney fails to pay the ransom, the hackers say, “the entire world will be allowed to view the documents with a publicly released key to unlock everything.”

Even if they don't have the documents that's a whole lot of jail time.

23 erik_t  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:57:20am

re: #22 Killgore Trout

Wow, I didn't realize they were blackmailing Romney
Hackers: Ransom for Romney Returns

Even if they don't have the documents that's a whole lot of jail time.

Of course they're Bitcoin nutters.

24 Mocking Jay  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:57:25am

re: #22 Killgore Trout

Wow, I didn't realize they were blackmailing Romney
Hackers: Ransom for Romney Returns

Even if they don't have the documents that's a whole lot of jail time.

It would also be bizarre if they actually expected him to pay the money. How the hell would that help him?

25 Big Steve  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:58:06am

re: #21 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

change the "today" on the end to "ever" and you got my agreement!

26 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:58:08am

Somehow I just can't get interested in doing a post on all the anti-Michelle ugliness on the right wing sites. It's just an overwhelming amount of racism and depressing hatred. I'm seeing the n-word posted openly at Fox Nation again, and Breitbart.com is also full of really sickening comments.

Every single right wing blog and media site I've checked so far is overflowing with this nasty stuff.

27 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:59:25am

re: #22 Killgore Trout

Anyone doing anything involving bitcoins is a total fucking nutcase.

28 Gus  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 11:59:46am

Derp.

29 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:00:56pm

re: #24 Mocking Jay

It would also be bizarre if they actually expected him to pay the money. How the hell would that help him?

Yeah, It seems weird. My first thought was it was a hoax but adding the blackmail makes it a very serious crime. It's very stupid but Anon types have done some seriously stupid stuff in the past.

30 erik_t  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:01:04pm

re: #26 Charles Johnson

I sometimes wonder if they believe what they're saying, or just constantly trying to impress each other by how much they hate the black lady.

I get different tastes and all that, but how nutty do you have to be to actually find her to be an unattractive woman?

31 Coracle  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:01:06pm

re: #26 Charles Johnson

It's not worth it. It's as reliable as the tides leaving dead fish behind, though it smells worse.

32 jaunte  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:02:08pm

re: #22 Killgore Trout

Masterminds with a foolproof plan

Hackers stole about US$250,000 from BitFloor, a BitCoin exchange, on Monday, and it does not have the money to reimburse account holders, according to the website's founder.
[Link: www.pcworld.com...]

33 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:03:34pm

CNBC: Fact Checking the Democrats’ Math
There seems to be near unanimous agreement among reputable news organizations.

34 Lidane  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:03:59pm

re: #26 Charles Johnson

It's not worth it. All they've got is their ignorance and hate. Let it drag them down.

35 erik_t  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:04:02pm

WHY WON'T YOU BELIEVE MY PROMISESSSSSSS

"Women, you need to wake up," [Ann Romney] urged them. "Women have to ask themselves who's going to have and be there for you. I can promise you, I know, that Mitt will be there for you. He will stand up for you, he will hear your voices."

Remember, this is the humanizing one.

36 Bulworth  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:04:30pm

re: #26 Charles Johnson

Somehow I just can't get interested in doing a post on all the anti-Michelle ugliness on the right wing sites. It's just an overwhelming amount of racism and depressing hatred. I'm seeing the n-word posted openly at Fox Nation again, and Breitbart.com is also full of really sickening comments.

Every single right wing blog and media site I've checked so far is overflowing with this nasty stuff.

But I bet they're severely "prolife".

//

37 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:04:33pm

re: #32 jaunte

Masterminds with a foolproof plan

Ugh, what a mess.

38 ArchangelMichael  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:04:35pm

re: #26 Charles Johnson

Whenever Michelle Obama speaks, the nutbars come out and spew the most vile crap about her.

It's almost like:

"Pope still Catholic. Bears still shitting in the woods. Right-wing kooks say vile things about the first lady."

It might not be worth the time to make an in depth post rather than a "there they go again" comment with links to the mountain of previous examples.

39 Targetpractice  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:04:43pm

re: #22 Killgore Trout

Wow, I didn't realize they were blackmailing Romney
Hackers: Ransom for Romney Returns

Even if they don't have the documents that's a whole lot of jail time.

Like I said downstairs, there's nothing to be gained by releasing them. The Romney campaign would be quick to call them fakes or claim any "discoveries" in them to be due to alterations of the original files. I'm still leaning towards hoax.

40 jaunte  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:04:54pm

re: #33 Killgore Trout

And figure in government jobs which have steadily declined, and the economy has added just 408,000 jobs in the Obama years.

I wonder how that happened.

41 JamesWI  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:05:30pm

re: #27 Obdicut

Anyone doing anything involving bitcoins is a total fucking nutcase.

I've never even heard of "bitcoins" before right now.

42 Lidane  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:06:42pm

re: #41 JamesWI

I've never even heard of "bitcoins" before right now.

Same here. I've heard of Anonymous, LulzSec and all that stuff, but bitcoins are new to me.

43 Interesting Times  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:06:57pm
44 Targetpractice  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:07:01pm

re: #33 Killgore Trout

CNBC: Fact Checking the Democrats’ Math
There seems to be near unanimous agreement among reputable news organizations.

That's because they're pulling the same shit as CNN.

45 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:07:36pm

re: #39 Targetpractice

Like I said downstairs, there's nothing to be gained by releasing them. The Romney campaign would be quick to call them fakes or claim any "discoveries" in them to be due to alterations of the original files. I'm still leaning towards hoax.

I'm leaning towards hoax too. Probably a couple 20 something idiots trying to keep Mitt's taxes in the news without understanding how much jail time they're facing.

46 erik_t  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:08:30pm

re: #42 Lidane

Same here. I've heard of Anonymous, LulzSec and all that stuff, but bitcoins are new to me.

It's the weird intersection of LUAP NOR and Linux, back in the asscrack of the body politic where everything wraps back on itself.

47 darthstar  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:08:36pm

re: #22 Killgore Trout

Wow, I didn't realize they were blackmailing Romney
Hackers: Ransom for Romney Returns

Even if they don't have the documents that's a whole lot of jail time.

Even if it was true, Romney could easily pre-empt this by just releasing his returns.

48 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:08:48pm

re: #33 Killgore Trout

I love how one moment you're deriding the modern media for being nigh-useless, obsessed with pointless scandal, incapable of doing more than reporting what both sides say without actually pointing out factual errors, and the next moment you're referring to 'reputable news sources'.

Does it at all bother you to shift that fluidly from position to position? Is this a Mitt Romney impersonation?

An article comparing job growth under Obama during the largest recession we've seen in recent history, and Romney's job growth in Massachussets during 2003-2007, is ridiculous. Futhermore, they admit "It is true that if you consider the average ranking of Massachusetts for job creation during Romney’s 2003-2007 term, the state comes in 47th."

Finally, they repeat the idiocy of saying that, since Romney's taxation and spending plan is a fiction and can't possibly work, what we have to depend on is what he 'promised' to do. Never mind that his promises are inherently contradictory, because we can't tell which promise he'll violate, it's wrong to say he'll raise taxes on the middle class even though he's specifically talked about eliminating deductions that benefit the middle class.

Why do you accept what media people say uncritically? I really don't get it.

49 Targetpractice  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:09:42pm

re: #47 darthstar

Even if it was true, Romney could easily pre-empt this by just releasing his returns.

The hackers gave him the perfect out, namely the ability to claim the files are fakes or have been altered. Anybody who tries to exploit them would be accused of not only condoning an illegal act, but also buying into files whose authenticity can't be verified.

50 jaunte  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:10:01pm

re: #48 Obdicut

Finally, they repeat the idiocy of saying that, since Romney's taxation and spending plan is a fiction and can't possibly work, what we have to depend on is what he 'promised' to do. Never mind that his promises are inherently contradictory, because we can't tell which promise he'll violate, it's wrong to say he'll raise taxes on the middle class even though he's specifically talked about eliminating deductions that benefit the middle class.

This.

51 Bulworth  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:10:01pm

re: #26 Charles Johnson

Somehow I just can't get interested in doing a post on all the anti-Michelle ugliness on the right wing sites. It's just an overwhelming amount of racism and depressing hatred. I'm seeing the n-word posted openly at Fox Nation again, and Breitbart.com is also full of really sickening comments.

Every single right wing blog and media site I've checked so far is overflowing with this nasty stuff.

And I'm sure they're all terribly upset that God "has been kicked out of the schools" and that we "aren't a Christian nation any more" and that the nation's values have just gone down the toilet since January 20, 2009....

/

52 darthstar  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:11:43pm
"I love the women of America. We've come a long way baby, we really have," Ann Romney said.

I didn't know Ann smoked Virginia Slims.

Image: 5599377726_887e5c09ea_o.jpg

53 Kragar  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:11:47pm

re: #41 JamesWI

I've never even heard of "bitcoins" before right now.

re: #42 Lidane

Same here. I've heard of Anonymous, LulzSec and all that stuff, but bitcoins are new to me.

Its internet currency stuff, like prepaid credit cards.

54 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:12:01pm
55 Kragar  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:13:01pm

We Must Take to the Streets to Stop the 'Hard-Core Leftist Socialists' Bent on Destroying America

Rabbi Aryeh Spero was the guest on "WallBuilders Live" today where he was promoting his new book "Push Back, Reclaiming the American Judeo-Christian Spirit," which he said he hoped would inspire people to rise up and take to the streets in protest against the "hard-core leftist socialists" who are out to destroy the Constitution and the Judeo-Christian philosophy:

56 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:14:24pm

re: #39 Targetpractice

Like I said downstairs, there's nothing to be gained by releasing them. The Romney campaign would be quick to call them fakes or claim any "discoveries" in them to be due to alterations of the original files. I'm still leaning towards hoax.

At this point, I hope they do release something they claim as one of Romney's returns. They'd be more likely to help Mitt's cause than harm it.

57 Gus  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:15:10pm

George Romney, father of Mitt Romney...

"Refugee from Mexico" and "welfare relief [recipient]."

Lenore Romney on George Romney's Campaign for Governor

Youtube Video

Right around the minute mark.

58 Bulworth  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:15:51pm

Did the FLOTUS mention God in her speech? If not, it proves she a no-good American hating soshulist secularist just like her hubby. If she did, it just means she's a secret Muslim. //

59 jaunte  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:16:21pm

AFP hashtag fail:

Today Americans for Prosperity, a Koch-backed group, is trying to promote #FailingAgenda. Ironically, it is failing. Rather than say that Obama’s agenda is a success, this time Democrats are turning it around and calling Mitt Romney a failure. It was really too easy, since it’s not clear what the hashtag alone is targeting. As of 2:30PM ET, only 19.6% of tweets with #FailingAgenda mention Obama.

[Link: 140elect.com...]

60 Targetpractice  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:16:25pm

re: #56 Dark_Falcon

At this point, I hope they do release something they claim as one of Romney's returns. They'd be more likely to help Mitt's cause than harm it.

Can't really see how. One could, in the same breath as condemning the illegal action, note that it would not have been possible if Willard had released his returns months ago. And any claims that the files themselves are fakes or altered is going to bring more calls to "prove it."

61 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:16:52pm

re: #44 Targetpractice

Might we agree that far too many of the four million jobs are minimum wage jobs that used to be well paid higher skilled jobs?

And it's 5 more years at this rate to get to pre recession employment, and even then at a far lower wage-Therefore still a tax revenue challenge for the nation and many states?

The truth is the economy sucks less than it did. Not exactly bragging material there.

62 Gus  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:16:57pm

Romney, Son Of Welfare Receiving Mexican Immigrant (VIDEO)

D'oh!

63 dragonfire1981  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:17:47pm

re: #55 Kragar

We Must Take to the Streets to Stop the 'Hard-Core Leftist Socialists' Bent on Destroying America

They were actually able to get a Rabbi on board with that stuff?

64 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:18:14pm

re: #63 dragonfire1981

They were actually able to get a Rabbi on board with that stuff?

There's a lot of rabbis. Some are kooks.

65 Gus  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:18:47pm

re: #59 jaunte

AFP hashtag fail:

[Link: 140elect.com...]

Hashtags are people too my friend.

66 Bulworth  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:18:52pm

re: #48 Obdicut
I'm also trying to remember KT's careful consideration of 'facts' last week....Then it was just all matter of "different ideas". Now, this week, the 'facts' are somehow important again.

67 Coracle  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:18:59pm

re: #61 Daniel Ballard

Might we agree that far too many of the four million jobs are minimum wage jobs that used to be well paid higher skilled jobs?

And it's 5 more years at this rate to get to pre recession employment, and even then at a far lower wage-Therefore still a tax revenue challenge for the nation and many states?

The truth is the economy sucks less than it did. Not exactly bragging material there.

All true, but then if you're going to go that deep, you might as well venture into why. And then lo, the obstructionist Congress looms large.

68 Targetpractice  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:19:34pm

re: #61 Daniel Ballard

Might we agree that far too many of the four million jobs are minimum wage jobs that used to be well paid higher skilled jobs?

And it's 5 more years at this rate to get to pre recession employment, and even then at a far lower wage-Therefore still a tax revenue challenge for the nation and many states?

The truth is the economy sucks less than it did. Not exactly bragging material there.

The economy sucks, but it sucks less than it did 29 months ago. Even Romney has only promised "12 million jobs," he's not said what kind of jobs those 12 million will be.

69 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:19:49pm

re: #66 Bulworth

I'm also trying to remember KT's careful consideration of 'facts' last week....Then it was just all matter of "different ideas". Now, this week, the 'facts' are somehow important again.

KT did the same thing during the 08 election.
;)

70 Coracle  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:20:03pm

re: #48 Obdicut

Why do you accept what media people say uncritically? I really don't get it.

I totally get it. Because it suits him.

71 Digital Display  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:21:13pm

re: #64 Obdicut

There's a lot of rabbis. Some are kooks.

CRAP! My touchpad on the HP laptop isn't working right.
Sometimes when I scroll it clicks on whatever it wants..
I had to reverse my downding of you..Guess I should reinstall the drivers.

72 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:21:25pm

re: #64 Obdicut

There's a lot of rabbis. Some are kooks.

Some are even related to me. :(

73 Big Steve  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:22:06pm

re: #48 Obdicut

plus I wouldn't get excited about state's job growth or lack there of in relationship to governor prowess....because Texas was #1 in job growth in the last year Texas Jobs and our governor is a total idiot and deserved not one atom of credit.

74 Interesting Times  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:22:06pm

Image: richest-woman-300x217.jpg

75 Bulworth  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:22:16pm

re: #68 Targetpractice

And underneath all of this is the question of, since we still have the Bush income tax rates, why does the economy still suck? Where are all the jobs from these very low, Republican originated tax rates?

76 lawhawk  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:22:46pm

re: #26 Charles Johnson

The vitriol directed against President Obama by the right wingers is bad enough, but it's even worse and more intense when addressed towards the First Lady. The right wing gets completely unhinged when she says or does anything.

I don't get it. It's nuts.

77 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:23:22pm

re: #74 Interesting Times

[Embedded content]

Image: richest-woman-300x217.jpg

So that's how her family made its billions, by exploiting the workers slaving away in the mines.

78 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:23:28pm

re: #74 Interesting Times

Romney/Ryan will have her as an economic adviser in a week.

79 Bulworth  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:24:25pm

re: #78 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

Romney/Ryan will have her as an economic adviser in a week.

I can't believe she didn't speak at the GOPteabag convention last week.

80 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:24:28pm

re: #74 Interesting Times

[Embedded content]

Image: richest-woman-300x217.jpg

And this is why people get annoyed with rich snobs like this. But hey what do I know, I just "hate" people for their "success", isn't that right Mitt Romney, Herman Cain, and the gang? It can't be because of people like this who are patronizing assholes, no ma'am it's because we're jealous. Sigh.

81 Coracle  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:24:34pm

re: #75 Bulworth

And underneath all of this is the question of, since we still have the Bush income tax rates, why does the economy still suck? Where are all the jobs from these very low, Republican originated tax rates?

But but but Economic Uncertainty!!!

82 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:24:59pm

re: #60 Targetpractice

Can't really see how. One could, in the same breath as condemning the illegal action, note that it would not have been possible if Willard had released his returns months ago. And any claims that the files themselves are fakes or altered is going to bring more calls to "prove it."

The answer to "prove it" in that case is to simply point out that "disclosures" by hackers are entirely unreliable, that the people in question committed a crime, and "why are you buying that BS from criminals". If I were Mitt, I'd also have my surrogates use FNC and the talk shows to play up how this connects the Democrats to being soft of crime and criminals.

It would also be possible to incorporate some "dog whistles" into the counterattack, but I do not recommend that be done nor will I suggest how to do so.

83 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:25:08pm

re: #79 Bulworth

I can't believe she didn't speak at the GOPteabag convention last week.

Only because she's an Aussie. She fits right in though.

84 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:25:08pm

re: #75 Bulworth

And underneath all of this is the question of, since we still have the Bush income tax rates, why does the economy still suck? Where are all the jobs from these very low, Republican originated tax rates?

China, Macau, Hong Kong, Mexico, the Phillipines...

85 Targetpractice  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:25:14pm

re: #75 Bulworth

And underneath all of this is the question of, since we still have the Bush income tax rates, why does the economy still suck? Where are all the jobs from these very low, Republican originated tax rates?

You know how in nature some animals and plants can't reproduce unless the environment is just right, down to the temperature and acidity of the water in the air? Well, businesses can only produce jobs in exactly the right conditions, which means not only very low taxes and virtually no regulation, but also a president who'll create a "business-friendly environment." Now, I cannot say what this means, as I'm not a college educated expert on all things free market, but I'm sure it means that a Republican has to be in office for a minimum of 8 years.

///

86 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:25:42pm

re: #66 Bulworth

I'm also trying to remember KT's careful consideration of 'facts' last week....Then it was just all matter of "different ideas". Now, this week, the 'facts' are somehow important again.

That bullshit and an outright lie.

87 A Mom Anon  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:26:10pm

re: #70 Coracle

At this point I think he's mostly trolling.

88 Coracle  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:26:43pm

re: #82 Dark_Falcon

The answer to "prove it" in that case is to simply point out that "disclosures" by hackers are entirely unreliable, that the people in question committed a crime, and "why are you buying that BS from criminals". If I were Mitt, I'd also have my surrogates use FNC and the talk shows to play up how this connects the Democrats to being soft of crime and criminals.

It would also be possible to incorporate some "dog whistles" into the counterattack, but I do not recommend that be done nor will I suggest how to do so.

So, basically, lie in response to challenges to credibility. SOP. Got it.

89 jaunte  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:27:04pm

Texas-Size Recovery
Here's a look at the facts behind job growth in the Lone Star State.

Since June 2009, the state has added 31,100 government jobs. That’s nearly 10 percent of Texas’ job growth. The nation, meanwhile, has lost 523,000 government jobs in that time frame.

These government jobs — which would include teachers, police and firefighters — have been a significant part of the employment growth in Texas throughout Perry’s tenure. Since Perry took office, private sector employment has gone up by 10 percent and government sector employment has climbed 18.3 percent

There's that shrink-or-increase government jobs question again.

90 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:27:05pm

re: #66 Bulworth

I'm also trying to remember KT's careful consideration of 'facts' last week....Then it was just all matter of "different ideas". Now, this week, the 'facts' are somehow important again.

Bulworth = Bullshit

91 makeitstop  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:27:11pm

re: #35 erik_t

WHY WON'T YOU BELIEVE MY PROMISESSSSSSS

Remember, this is the humanizing one.

She also spoke about the difficulties she and Mitt Romney have faced, pushing back on the narrative that they've led a "charmed life" and promising the crowd that she has been in a "dark place" and knows what it's like to face challenges. She also briefly touched on how hard running for office can be on the family.

That may just be very badly written, but it just sounds weird.

92 blueraven  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:27:12pm

re: #82 Dark_Falcon

The answer to "prove it" in that case is to simply point out that "disclosures" by hackers are entirely unreliable, that the people in question committed a crime, and "why are you buying that BS from criminals". If I were Mitt, I'd also have my surrogates use FNC and the talk shows to play up how this connects the Democrats to being soft of crime and criminals.

It would also be possible to incorporate some "dog whistles" into the counterattack, but I do not recommend that be done nor will I suggest how to do so.

WTF

93 Targetpractice  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:27:20pm

re: #82 Dark_Falcon

The answer to "prove it" in that case is to simply point out that "disclosures" by hackers are entirely unreliable, that the people in question committed a crime, and "why are you buying that BS from criminals". If I were Mitt, I'd also have my surrogates use FNC and the talk shows to play up how this connects the Democrats to being soft of crime and criminals.

It would also be possible to incorporate some "dog whistles" into the counterattack, but I do not recommend that be done nor will I suggest how to do so.

Again, we get back to the reality that Willard would not be getting shaken down by anonymous hackers if he wasn't trying to hide something. He has invited this whole business by breaking from long-standing campaign tradition and can only put the issue to rest by coming clean.

94 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:27:34pm

re: #69 Varek Raith

KT did the same thing during the 08 election.
;)

Really? Do you even know how I voted in 08?

95 Big Steve  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:27:50pm

re: #86 Killgore Trout

That bullshit and an outright lie.

I'm with KT here. All he is saying is that last week many left leaning individuals and sites were gleefully linking to fact checking sites yet this week calling BS on the same sites.

96 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:28:25pm

re: #94 Killgore Trout

Really? Do you even know how I voted in 08?

I'm referring to the needless antagonizing that you are doing now.
You did it then too.
;)

97 engineer cat  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:28:50pm

job growth under Obama during the largest recession we've seen in recent history

...shouldn't be compared to anything since there is literally nothing else like it that it can be compared to

the fact is, we were in screaming roller coaster freefall when barack took office, and within six months we were moving in the right direction again. what else is there to say about it?

98 Bulworth  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:29:08pm

re: #86 Killgore Trout
I would refer you to the discussion last week about Clint's unemployment figures. You didn't seem concerned.

99 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:29:38pm

re: #95 Big Steve

I'm with KT here. All he is saying is that last week many left leaning individuals and sites were gleefully linking to fact checking sites yet this week calling BS on the same sites.

It's strange that so many remember last week differently.

100 Targetpractice  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:30:02pm

re: #97 engineer cat

job growth under Obama during the largest recession we've seen in recent history

...shouldn't be compared to anything since there is literally nothing else like it that it can be compared to

the fact is, we were in screaming roller coaster freefall when barack took office, and within six months we were moving in the right direction again. what else is there to say about it?

Well, obviously what needs to be said is that it would have been so much faster and stronger if Obama had just let the Republicans take control!

101 engineer cat  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:30:25pm

re: #77 Learned Mother of Zion

So that's how her family made its billions, by exploiting the workers slaving away in the mines.

let's see her visit her workers and tell them "i built that"

102 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:31:14pm

re: #101 engineer cat

let's see her visit her workers and tell them "i built that"

Ha, fat chance.

103 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:32:26pm

re: #95 Big Steve

I'm with KT here. All he is saying is that last week many left leaning individuals and sites were gleefully linking to fact checking sites yet this week calling BS on the same sites.

And what is the problem with that, exactly? I don't get it. The stupidity is declaring that the fact-checkers are completely reliable. Linking to them when they're right, and criticizing them when they're wrong, is appropriate.

If you want to show bias, then show someone not criticizing them when they're wrong in bias for their side, or whatever. Just saying "Last week you linked to a factchecker, this week you're criticizing them" doesn't mean shit.

104 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:32:37pm

re: #88 Coracle

So, basically, lie in response to challenges to credibility. SOP. Got it.

No lies, just that running with such a story puts the Dems in bed with bad people. The real payoff is that the bad people are both criminal, hackers, and far left: They're perfect in terms of the association with them being damaging to the Dems. It will worry middle class voters and rich donors, who will worry about the security of their information and wonder why the Dems are encouraging criminals who might victimize them. Then you remind those same people of how Democrats often undermined effective anti-crime measures in previous times, making the case that they have not changed. Special bonus if Guiliani could be convinced to make the case.

105 jaunte  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:33:06pm

I try not to gleefully link, but rather observe a proper sobriety and morosely neutral mien, while pasting in html addresses.

106 erik_t  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:34:20pm

re: #104 Dark_Falcon

Built upon the presumed lie that the Democrats would run with whatever alleged nastiness comes out of these alleged returns. Presumed lie because they're not nearly that stupid.

107 blueraven  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:34:49pm

re: #104 Dark_Falcon

No lies, just that running with such a story puts the Dems in bed with bad people. The real payoff is that the bad people are both criminal, hackers, and far left: They're perfect in terms of the association with them being damaging to the Dems. It will worry middle class voters and rich donors, who will worry about the security of their information and wonder why the Dems are encouraging criminals who might victimize them. Then you remind those same people of how Democrats often undermined effective anti-crime measures in previous times, making the case that they have not changed. Special bonus if Guiliani could be convinced to make the case.

That is some creepy shit right there
Nixonian

108 jaunte  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:34:52pm

The fact-checking sites seem to just be journalists who are marketing themselves as fact-checkers; we don't necessarily have to buy their whole stock unexamined.

109 Targetpractice  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:34:52pm

re: #104 Dark_Falcon

No lies, just that running with such a story puts the Dems in bed with bad people. The real payoff is that the bad people are both criminal, hackers, and far left: They're perfect in terms of the association with them being damaging to the Dems. It will worry middle class voters and rich donors, who will worry about the security of their information and wonder why the Dems are encouraging criminals who might victimize them. Then you remind those same people of how Democrats often undermined effective anti-crime measures in previous times, making the case that they have not changed. Special bonus if Guiliani could be convinced to make the case.

Running with what story? Condemning the act, but saying it wouldn't have happened if Romney had been honest with voters would "put the Dems in bed with bad people"?

110 Interesting Times  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:35:02pm

re: #104 Dark_Falcon

No lies, just that running with such a story puts the Dems in bed with bad people. The real payoff is that the bad people are both criminal, hackers, and far left:

[citation needed]

111 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:35:23pm

re: #104 Dark_Falcon

No lies, just that running with such a story puts the Dems in bed with bad people. The real payoff is that the bad people are both criminal, hackers, and far left: They're perfect in terms of the association with them being damaging to the Dems. It will worry middle class voters and rich donors, who will worry about the security of their information and wonder why the Dems are encouraging criminals who might victimize them. Then you remind those same people of how Democrats often undermined effective anti-crime measures in previous times, making the case that they have not changed. Special bonus if Guiliani could be convinced to make the case.

This really reads as whatever means necessary politics even if it means completely fudging the truth.

112 erik_t  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:35:33pm

re: #107 blueraven

That is some creepy shit right there
Nixonian

Who cares, if it gets my guy elected?

He's pretty much said exactly that.

113 makeitstop  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:35:37pm

re: #82 Dark_Falcon

If I were Mitt, I'd also have my surrogates use FNC and the talk shows to play up how this connects the Democrats to being soft of crime and criminals.

You are really getting weird lately, dude. Really weird.

114 The Ghost of a Flea  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:36:13pm

re: #95 Big Steve

I'm with KT here. All he is saying is that last week many left leaning individuals and sites were gleefully linking to fact checking sites yet this week calling BS on the same sites.

...because we read the way they come to their decision and find it wanting.

This whole "they're just partisan" line overlooks that we take issue with specific fact checks for specific lines of rhetoric, not all fact-checks that reference liberals or Democrats.

115 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:36:15pm

re: #22 Killgore Trout

Wow, I didn't realize they were blackmailing Romney
Hackers: Ransom for Romney Returns

Even if they don't have the documents that's a whole lot of jail time.

I'm sure the demand had a Dr Evil icon on it as well.

116 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:36:28pm

re: #105 jaunte

I try not to gleefully link, but rather observe a proper sobriety and morosely neutral mien, while pasting in html addresses.

Rotatable.

117 Interesting Times  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:37:36pm
118 The Ghost of a Flea  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:37:56pm

re: #104 Dark_Falcon

No lies, just that running with such a story puts the Dems in bed with bad people. The real payoff is that the bad people are both criminal, hackers, and far left: They're perfect in terms of the association with them being damaging to the Dems. It will worry middle class voters and rich donors, who will worry about the security of their information and wonder why the Dems are encouraging criminals who might victimize them. Then you remind those same people of how Democrats often undermined effective anti-crime measures in previous times, making the case that they have not changed. Special bonus if Guiliani could be convinced to make the case.

Assumptions? How do they work?

Or is that supposed to be a tactically acceptable lie?

119 makeitstop  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:38:26pm

re: #104 Dark_Falcon

No lies, just that running with such a story puts the Dems in bed with bad people.

Who the fuck is 'running with the story?'

120 erik_t  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:39:38pm

re: #111 HappyWarrior

This morning, as I recall, it would be a fantastic ad campaign to paste together a bunch of Democrat nobodies making Hitler comparisons.

Whatever means necessary.

121 A Mom Anon  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:39:53pm

re: #104 Dark_Falcon

I would like for you to tell me,since Republicans are so very superior to Democrats in every way,the following:

1)What do they plan to replace Obamacare with? I have a stake in that since I can not afford separate health insurance for my autistic 18 yr old son. Just tell me how they're going to make our healthcare more affordable and fair. He's not going to get a job with healthcare benefits right out of the starting gate so tell me how Republicans plan on addressing families like mine(who are not in the minority btw).

2)How will they get the unemployment rate down under 7 percent? How do they plan to bring jobs that a person can work 40 hours and actually support themselves and their families? Not crappy 8.50 per hour jobs at freaking Staples either.

3)Convince me Dark,why should I trust or vote for Republicans? I'm serious about this. Engage me in the discussion.

122 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:40:30pm

OK - this was supposed to be one of Twitter's new embedded timelines, but something ain't workin' right just yet.

123 Gus  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:40:34pm

re: #104 Dark_Falcon

No lies, just that running with such a story puts the Dems in bed with bad people. The real payoff is that the bad people are both criminal, hackers, and far left: They're perfect in terms of the association with them being damaging to the Dems. It will worry middle class voters and rich donors, who will worry about the security of their information and wonder why the Dems are encouraging criminals who might victimize them. Then you remind those same people of how Democrats often undermined effective anti-crime measures in previous times, making the case that they have not changed. Special bonus if Guiliani could be convinced to make the case.

This made me laugh.

124 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:40:58pm

re: #119 makeitstop

Who the fuck is 'running with the story?'

No one, yet, and I hope it stays that way. I'm saying what I'd do if the story did "break". It's not something to be done as a preemptive strike; It could only be done if a Democratic Super PAC (at least) was willing to put weight behind any "released returns".

125 Bulworth  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:41:19pm
re: #141 Renaissance_Man

The thing is, I doubt Eastwood is demented. The vast majority of people like that, ie. who are angry at Obama and support the GOP despite not actually agreeing with any of the GOP positions, aren't demented. They just believe one or two of the Conservative cult lies.

Even if you don't watch a lot of FOX, even if you don't listen to Limbaugh, the Conservative cult media is incredibly pervasive. You'll know someone who knows someone who does. You'll hear something repeated in the regular media uncritically. Only a lunatic believes all the conspiracy theories and all the deranged Obama hatred that exists in the media bubble of the right. But lots of Americans believe one or two of them.

And that is what will win the GOP the election - enough lies repeated endlessly so that one or two stick in the national consciousness.

KT said:

I'll go a step further and propose that he might not be misinformed or stupid either. I know it seems hard for a lot of people to imagine that some smart well informed people just have different ideas.

126 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:42:25pm

re: #122 Charles Johnson

The "faith in humanity" one was retweeted by Yours Truly. Well written.

127 engineer cat  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:42:42pm

far left

occasionally i get a chance to hang out in europe where people like this are called 'moderates', and what are called 'conservatives' in the united states are studied in historical texts

128 Big Steve  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:42:55pm

re: #122 Charles Johnson


well that was weird.....something briefly posted then went blank and then there is a gigantic post box for Charles #122 but nothing in it.

129 Targetpractice  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:42:57pm

re: #124 Dark_Falcon

No one, yet, and I hope it stays that way. I'm saying what I'd do if the story did "break". It's not something to be done as a preemptive strike; It could only be done if a Democratic Super PAC (at least) was willing to put weight behind any "released returns".

If the story broke at the end of the month, without the Romney campaign speaking up between now and then, I'd be quick to accuse them of baiting a trap.

130 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:43:28pm

re: #76 lawhawk

The vitriol directed against President Obama by the right wingers is bad enough, but it's even worse and more intense when addressed towards the First Lady. The right wing gets completely unhinged when she says or does anything.

I don't get it. It's nuts.

It's another front in the (supposedly non-existent) War on Women. Successful black women are particularly attractive targets. (Perhaps a little pun there, since they claim she's not attractive.)

131 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:43:53pm

re: #120 erik_t

This morning, as I recall, it would be a fantastic ad campaign to paste together a bunch of Democrat nobodies making Hitler comparisons.

Whatever means necessary.

I know. Shit you could have a whole film with the moronic politicians and pundits left and right who use Hilter comparisons to make their point. If DF wants to argue that Dems using Nazi comparisons make them look hysteric, he needs to look at Rush Limbaugh who popularized the term feminazi and that man's influence on the conservative Republican mindset.

132 palomino  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:45:08pm

re: #6 Coracle

I wouldn't mind testing that theory with two of them.

Eww, you're into GGMILF's?

133 Obdicut  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:45:18pm

re: #131 HappyWarrior

The casual use of "Feminazi" is pretty weird, especially by people who get outraged at Nazi comparisons aimed at their 'side'.

134 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:45:49pm

re: #127 engineer cat

far left

occasionally i get a chance to hang out in europe where people like this are called 'moderates', and what are called 'conservatives' in the united states are studied in historical texts

You know, I always thought that was a little bit of exaggeration but then I found out that I liked all three major party candidates for PM in the UK. And my problem with Sarkozy in France was with his Roma policy more so than what I knew about his fiscal one and I thought Hollande's proposed taxes were ridiculous.

135 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:46:03pm

re: #131 HappyWarrior

I know. Shit you could have a whole film with the moronic politicians and pundits left and right who use Hilter comparisons to make their point. If DF wants to argue that Dems using Nazi comparisons make them look hysteric, he needs to look at Rush Limbaugh who popularized the term feminazi and that man's influence on the conservative Republican mindset.

Or Jonah Goldberg.

136 Killgore Trout  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:46:10pm

re: #125 Bulworth

Go ahead and link directly to my comment in context please. It was in response to people claiming that Clint is mentally incapacitated or deficient because he supports Republicans. I don't know him but I think it's unfair and bigoted to assume that people who support a different party than me is mentally inferior or ignorant. Some people just have different opinions.

137 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:46:46pm

re: #133 Obdicut

The casual use of "Feminazi" is pretty weird, especially by people who get outraged at Nazi comparisons aimed at their 'side'.

Limbaugh's such an ass for making that into a common phrase. Really, if you think that feminists are anything like the Nazis. You're a stupid moron. Oh and I remember Tom Delay comparing the EPA to the Gestapo.

138 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:46:49pm

re: #129 Targetpractice

If the story broke at the end of the month, without the Romney campaign speaking up between now and then, I'd be quick to accuse them of baiting a trap.

A very good counter-move. [Smiles] You are learning how to play this game, TP.

139 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:47:14pm

re: #135 Varek Raith

Or Jonah Goldberg.

Yeah, fuck that guy.

140 erik_t  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:47:32pm

re: #138 Dark_Falcon

A very good counter-move. [Smiles] You are learning how to play this game, TP.

It's not a game. It's trying to make the case that you're an appropriate choice to run a fucking country.

141 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:48:21pm

re: #67 Coracle

All true, but then if you're going to go that deep, you might as well venture into why. And then lo, the obstructionist Congress looms large.

If all of Obamas jobs proposals had passed, where would unemployment be? I would think a percent or two better, not more. The big job growth comes from main street hiring in response to demand. Factories running more product or shifts.

142 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:48:56pm

re: #95 Big Steve

I'm with KT here. All he is saying is that last week many left leaning individuals and sites were gleefully linking to fact checking sites yet this week calling BS on the same sites.

Confirmation bias is very real.

143 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:49:32pm

re: #135 Varek Raith

Or Jonah Goldberg.

Goldberg's "Liberal Fascism" is very wrong, but he doesn't spew out the sort of ugly insults Rush does. He's a nutcase like Rush often is and he often has useful things to say.

And his comments on Michelle Obama's speech were thoughtful and decent, unlike whatever DERP Limbaugh will put out.

144 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:49:53pm

Here's a thought;
Don't rely solely on a fact checking site for your facts.
;)

145 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:50:46pm

re: #140 erik_t

It's not a game. It's trying to make the case that you're an appropriate choice to run a fucking country.

Electoral Politics and Scandal Management are both very much games. Games for very high stakes, but game nevertheless.

146 Varek Raith  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:51:45pm

Another thought;
I can't spell worth beans today.
/edit button

147 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:51:58pm

re: #143 Dark_Falcon

Goldberg's "Liberal Fascism" is very wrong, but he doesn't spew out the sort of ugly insults Rush does. He's a nutcase like Rush often is and he often has useful things to say.

And his comments on Michelle Obama's speech were thoughtful and decent, unlike whatever DERP Limbaugh will put out.

He still likened American liberalism to Nazism, DF. If a liberal pundit did the same with American conservatism, you'd be pissed at the guy too and I'd be giving him shit with you because both are absurd comparisons. Besides Limbaugh's pretty low as you get. It's like saying I stepped in dog shit but hey at least it's not bear shit.

148 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:52:51pm

re: #147 HappyWarrior

He still likened American liberalism to Nazism, DF. If a liberal pundit did the same with American conservatism, you'd be pissed at the guy too and I'd be giving him shit with you.

Limbaugh does this several times a week.

149 Kragar  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:52:53pm

re: #144 Varek Raith

Here's a thought;
Don't rely solely on a fact checking site for your facts.
;)

Multiple sources and cross-referencing makes everything better.

150 palomino  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:53:11pm

re: #14 Dark_Falcon

Not a "barn burner" at all. that sort of speech is marked by a good bit of hostility, while Michelle Obama was going for a "high road" approach, as is normal for first ladies. She gave an excellent speech, that cannot be denied, but to call it a "barn burner" is an error in terminology.

Don't be a pissy little baby whenever the other side does something that turns out well. The media, even your beloved NRO, has admitted this was a great speech, one of the best ever by a first lady, and clearly better than Ann Romney's, which itself was pretty good.

It doesn't mean that your robot candidate will lose the election, so there's no need to adopt a knee-jerk reaction against Michelle's speech. Just move on to the next GOP talking point.

And buck up: Romney's Southern Strategy Redux has a decent chance of working. Your party's narrow insularity won't actually be a crippling disadvantage demographically for a couple more election cycles. So enjoy the Last Stand of the Angry Old White Man while it's still around.

151 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:53:29pm

re: #148 Charles Johnson

Limbaugh does this several times a week.

Yeah I know he does. I was talking about Goldberg. Fuck Limbaugh and it's fucking sick that he has the influence he does on one of our political parties.

152 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:53:41pm

re: #147 HappyWarrior

He still likened American liberalism to Nazism, DF. If a liberal pundit did the same with American conservatism, you'd be pissed at the guy too and I'd be giving him shit with you. Besides Limbaugh's pretty low as you get. It's like saying I stepped in dog shit but hey at least it's not bear shit.

Not arguing with you, I'm just saying its not really fair to Jonah Goldberg to compare him to that misogynistic POS Limbaugh.

153 Ming  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:54:04pm

Watching Michelle Obama's speech last night, I felt honored that they're in the White House.

It's a singular national disgrace that for almost four years, the Obama family has been demonized by many in this country. The birther nonsense goes so far as to insult the entire Obama family, including the President's parents and grandparents. If this unrelenting negativity gives the election to Romney / Ryan, we'll be in uncharted territory in this country.

154 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:55:04pm

re: #152 Dark_Falcon

Not arguing with you, I'm just saying its not really fair to Jonah Goldberg to compare him to that misogynistic POS Limbaugh.

Well, he likened people like me to Nazis. So let me reiterate this: fuck him. If he wants to argue that my ideology isn't practical, that's one thing but don't compare me to the Nazi Party because you(Jonah not you DF) have this twisted hatred of American liberals.

155 Big Steve  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:55:16pm

re: #150 palomino

It is interesting that you assume DF is white or male or old.

156 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:55:23pm

re: #143 Dark_Falcon

Goldberg's "Liberal Fascism" is very wrong, but he doesn't spew out the sort of ugly insults Rush does. He's a nutcase like Rush often is and he often has useful things to say.

And his comments on Michelle Obama's speech were thoughtful and decent, unlike whatever DERP Limbaugh will put out.

You recognize where he's very wrong. I feel sorry for NJDHockeyfan, he said he's never heard of Goldberg, so he has no defense against the BS being fed to him by his preferred media sources. Killgore said, "I think it's unfair and bigoted to assume that people who support a different party than me is mentally inferior or ignorant. Some people just have different opinions", but sadly, ignorance is an important feature of wingnut politics.

157 engineer cat  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:55:25pm

jonah goldberg

yanno, i'm getting pretty sick of getting criticized for petty violations of propriety when republicans allow morons like this to speak for them

face it, many leading republicans use nazi big lie tactics. if you want to condemn me for "godwining", please shut up all of your morons first

you can get back to me when no longer see books explicitly calling progressives 'nazis' everytime i pass by a barnes and noble

158 Kragar  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:55:51pm

Family values groups present pro-bullying strategies

Alliance Defending Freedom, formerly the Alliance Defense Fund, has been working with Focus on the Family to put together an “anti-bullying yardstick” that provides quite weak and watered-down measures to fight bullying. But backing ineffective measures to combat bullying may be the point, as the Religious Right has fiercely opposed comprehensive anti-bullying policies because of protections that would help curb anti-LGBT bullying, even to the point of supporting loopholes for bullies. Ironically, just today the Gay, Lesbian, and Straight Education Network (GLSEN) released a report detailing the disproportionately high rates of bullying faced by LGBT youth, and how such bullying is less likely to materialize in schools with stronger anti-bullying policies.

ADF attorney Matt Sharp appeared on The Janet Mefferd Show yesterday to denounce “oppressive” anti-bullying policies, and while Sharp insisted that the campaign is not linked to either the ADF or Focus’s anti-LGBT advocacy, it probably didn’t help that he was speaking to a talk show host who has consistently denounced LGBT rights and people. Just before Sharp appeared on her program, Mefferd criticized the Democratic Party for backing marriage equality by asking, “where’s the lightning?”

Sharp said that gay rights groups are using bullying as “an avenue for them to insert their homosexual agenda into the schools” and promote “the re-education of students.” He claimed ADF and Focus will provide an alternative to “the propaganda of homosexual activist groups that seek to promote their agenda in the schools,” describing their “propaganda” as books that dare to recognize the reality that some children are raised by same-sex couples!

159 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:56:52pm

re: #157 engineer cat

jonah goldberg

yanno, i'm getting pretty sick of getting criticized for petty violations of propriety when republicans allow morons like this to speak for them

face it, many leading republicans use nazi big lie tactics. if you want to condemn me for "godwining", please shut up all of your morons first

you can get back to me when no longer see books explicitly calling progressives 'nazis' everytime i pass by a barnes and noble

Or get back to me after a popular conservative radio host recites a famous poem about Nazi persecution of left wing individuals(trade unions and communist) and try to make it about you because people mock what you say. Yeah I'm looking at you Glenn Beck.

160 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:57:22pm

re: #150 palomino

I'm not being "pissy", I already said it was a excellent speech and I said that without qualification. But I believe in keeping the meaning of terms consistent, and thus felt that Lidane's use of the term "barn burner" was in error. I was talking about her use of a term, not Michelle Obama's speech.

Hell, it was Jonah Goldberg whom I quoted on a previous thread as saying it was excellent.

161 Interesting Times  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:58:07pm
162 palomino  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:58:18pm

re: #143 Dark_Falcon

Goldberg's "Liberal Fascism" is very wrong, but he doesn't spew out the sort of ugly insults Rush does. He's a nutcase like Rush often is and he often has useful things to say.

And his comments on Michelle Obama's speech were thoughtful and decent, unlike whatever DERP Limbaugh will put out.

Wow, it's the "At least he's not as bad as Limbaugh" defense. Sorry, not very convincing.

163 leftynyc  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:58:50pm

re: #107 blueraven

That is some creepy shit right there
Nixonian

Which is why it smells so badly to me. It wouldn't be the first time karl rove was involved in something like this:

[Link: www.seattlepi.com...]

In 1970, College Republican Rove stole letterhead from the Illinois Democratic campaign of Alan Dixon, and used it to invite hundreds of people to Dixon's new headquarters opening, promising "free beer, free food, girls and a good time for nothing," disrupting the event.


After John McCain thumped George W. Bush in the 2000 New Hampshire primary, with 48 percent of the vote to Bush's 30 percent, a massive smear campaign was launched in South Carolina, a key battleground. TV attack ads from third groups and anonymous fliers circulated, variously suggesting that McCain's experience as a prisoner of war in Vietnam left him mentally scarred with an uncontrollable temper, that his wife, Cindy, abused drugs and that he had an African-American "love child." In fact, the McCains adopted their daughter Bridget from a Bangladesh orphanage run by Mother Teresa.

I wouldn't put anything past that maggot.

164 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:58:52pm

re: #155 Big Steve

It is interesting that you assume DF is white or male or old.

He doesn't have to be an old white man to enjoy their last stand.

165 A Mom Anon  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:59:05pm

re: #158 Kragar

Oh Just Fuck These Retrograde Assholes. What alot of so called thinking adults fail to realize that a kid doesn't even have to be gay to be bullied for being perceived as gay. Bullying has NO PLACE IN SCHOOL AT ALL! How god damned hard is that to understand?

166 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 12:59:06pm

The most hilarious part about comparing American liberals to Nazis is at the same time we're being derided as PC multicultural peaceniks. My favorite moment was when Glenn Beck likened empathy to Hitler. Yeah because when I think of Hitler, I think of his empathy and not the destruction he left behind. Morons.

167 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 1:00:42pm

re: #156 wrenchwench

You recognize where he's very wrong. I feel sorry for NJDHockeyfan, he said he's never heard of Goldberg, so he has no defense against the BS being fed to him by his preferred media sources. Killgore said, "I think it's unfair and bigoted to assume that people who support a different party than me is mentally inferior or ignorant. Some people just have different opinions", but sadly, ignorance is an important feature of wingnut politics.

It's because of my gaming group. I got into a conversation with a member of my group over an article on the UK's Military Illustrated titled "Hitler was a left-winger", that helped keep me from falling too deep down that meme's well. I fell partway down, though, then got bombarded on these pages for having done so. Whereupon I went back to my other books and figured out how Goldberg was wrong.

168 Big Steve  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 1:01:06pm

re: #164 wrenchwench

He doesn't have to be an old white man to enjoy their last stand.

LOL....well will you miss us when we are gone

169 A Mom Anon  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 1:01:51pm

re: #121 A Mom Anon

*looks at watch,taps foot,hums a happy little tune,tra.la.la.*

170 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 1:02:07pm

re: #155 Big Steve

It is interesting that you assume DF is white or male or old.

White: Mostly, with a part being Cherokee.
Male: Entirely.
Old: No, still well under 40.

171 palomino  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 1:02:18pm

re: #155 Big Steve

It is interesting that you assume DF is white or male or old.

I know he's male since he's said so.

I'm not assuming he's the other two...I'm stating that his party is disproportionately made up of the other two, to the point that it will soon be a hindrance in national elections.

172 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 1:02:24pm

re: #168 Big Steve

LOL....well will you miss us when we are gone

You should meet my old white man. You'd probably get along great if you don't mind that he looks like an old hippy.

173 Lidane  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 1:02:51pm
174 darthstar  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 1:02:53pm

re: #170 Dark_Falcon

White: Mostly, with a part being Cherokee.
Male: Entirely.
Old: No, still well under 40.

Dude...open a fuckin' casino! You'll be rich!

175 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 1:03:26pm

re: #167 Dark_Falcon

It's because of my gaming group. I got into a conversation with a member of my group over an article on the UK's Military Illustrated titled "Hitler was a left-winger", that helped keep me from falling too deep down that meme's well. I fell partway down, though, then got bombarded on these pages for having done so. Whereupon I went back to my other books and figured out how Goldberg was wrong.

That's why I have hope for you. :)

176 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 1:04:24pm

re: #174 darthstar

Dude...open a fuckin' casino! You'll be rich!

[smiles and shakes head fondly]

177 engineer cat  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 1:04:31pm

re: #167 Dark_Falcon

It's because of my gaming group. I got into a conversation with a member of my group over an article on the UK's Military Illustrated titled "Hitler was a left-winger", that helped keep me from falling too deep down that meme's well. I fell partway down, though, then got bombarded on these pages for having done so. Whereupon I went back to my other books and figured out how Goldberg was wrong.

have you read The Third Reich In Power?

it's beneficial to take advantage of somebody who's done the spadework so that they are able to describe the economic policies of the third reich in detail

178 Lidane  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 1:05:32pm
179 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 1:05:34pm

re: #171 palomino

Will you at least accept that I wasn't being an ass with my #14?

180 palomino  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 1:05:59pm

re: #160 Dark_Falcon

I'm not being "pissy", I already said it was a excellent speech and I said that without qualification. But I believe in keeping the meaning of terms consistent, and thus felt that Lidane's use of the term "barn burner" was in error. I was talking about her use of a term, not Michelle Obama's speech.

Hell, it was Jonah Goldberg whom I quoted on a previous thread as saying it was excellent.

The fact that the speech was so good obviously bummed you out to the point that you're now playing unofficial blog etymologist.

Seriously, how often do you get this concerned about an incorrect usage of a slang term? As if there could really be such an incorrect usage in a subjective context like this.

181 Big Steve  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 1:06:01pm

re: #172 wrenchwench

You should meet my old white man. You'd probably get along great if you don't mind that he looks like an old hippy.

well since the hair went bye bye it is hard for me to pull off the hippy look....but the other day one of my son's (college age now) told me I was the "coolest" parent of all of the kids he knows. If your "old white man" is into woodworking we would get along great.

182 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 1:06:04pm

re: #178 Lidane

[Embedded content]

And that's the end of that.

183 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 1:07:42pm

re: #180 palomino

The fact that the speech was so good obviously bummed you out to the point that you're now playing unofficial blog etymologist.

Seriously, how often do you get this concerned about an incorrect usage of a slang term? As if there could really be such an incorrect usage in a subjective context like this.

I'm often like that, to both parties. It runs in my family and I've always been detail oriented like that.

184 leftynyc  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 1:08:02pm

re: #166 HappyWarrior

The most hilarious part about comparing American liberals to Nazis is at the same time we're being derided as PC multicultural peaceniks. My favorite moment was when Glenn Beck likened empathy to Hitler. Yeah because when I think of Hitler, I think of his empathy and not the destruction he left behind. Morons.

Reminds me of this newtie gem:

Hours after declaring Sunday that he expects to be running for president within a month, former House Speaker Newt Gingrich said he's worried the United States could be "a secular atheist country, potentially one dominated by radical Islamists," in the foreseeable future, according to Politico.

[Link: chris-ketchens.newsvine.com...]

Another maggot.

185 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 1:10:31pm

re: #184 leftynyc

Reminds me of this newtie gem:

Hours after declaring Sunday that he expects to be running for president within a month, former House Speaker Newt Gingrich said he's worried the United States could be "a secular atheist country, potentially one dominated by radical Islamists," in the foreseeable future, according to Politico.

[Link: chris-ketchens.newsvine.com...]

Another maggot.

A secular atheist country dominated by radical Islamists? Sounds like a communist country dominated by plutocracy.

186 The Ghost of a Flea  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 1:10:36pm

re: #177 engineer cat

have you read The Third Reich In Power?

it's beneficial to take advantage of somebody who's done the spadework so that they are able to describe the economic policies of the third reich in detail

I'm amazed at the success of Goldberg's meme.

It just shows that for all the name-dropping of Nazis and their role as boogeymen of history, people don't bother to look at what their actual political philosophy was, or how they achieved the position they did.

Mind you, there's the same problem with Adolf Hitler as an individual. His mythos has blotted out his reality. Look at bullshit claims like "Hitler was a vegetarian" or "He was angry because he was part Jewish." Their persistence and strength is scary.

187 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 1:12:01pm

re: #185 HappyWarrior

A secular atheist country dominated by radical Islamists? Sounds like a communist country dominated by plutocracy.

So America is going to end up like China?

/Heh.

188 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 1:12:32pm

re: #186 The Ghost of a Flea

I'm amazed at the success of Goldberg's meme.

It just shows that for all the name-dropping of Nazis and their role as boogeymen of history, people don't bother to look at what their actual political philosophy was, or how they achieved the position they did.

Mind you, there's the same problem with Adolf Hitler as an individual. His mythos has blotted out his reality. Look at bullshit claims like "Hitler was a vegetarian" or "He was angry because he was part Jewish." Their persistence and strength is scary.

This.

189 Bulworth  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 1:12:36pm

re: #136 Killgore Trout

Go ahead and link directly to my comment in context please. It was in response to people claiming that Clint is mentally incapacitated or deficient because he supports Republicans. I don't know him but I think it's unfair and bigoted to assume that people who support a different party than me is mentally inferior or ignorant. Some people just have different opinions.

There were several comments back and forth on Friday the 31st but the particular point some of us raised was Clint's claiming the unemployment numbers were twice what they actually were.

Here is what I said:

re: #145 Bulworth

So saying the number of unemployed people is double what it actually is isn't misinformed?

And here is your response:

As I've noted before political speeches, advertisements, press releases etc ofet contain lies and misinformation for public consumption. That's why I keep trying to tell people that Obama doesn't even believe his own campaign ads and neither should anyone else. I don't know Clint, or know what he does or does not know.

So everyone lies, all the speeches and ads are lies, so who cares?

But now you are reporting what the various fact checkers are saying about the claims made by certain participants at the Democratic convention. And some of us are wondering about this change on your part.

190 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 1:13:23pm

The basis of Goldberg's strategy is simple guys. It's like this.
1.) I hate liberals
2.) I hate Nazis
3.) Nazis are liberals.
I am still amused by his fantasy of wanting to "punch young socialists." Really as a former college student and one who was sometimes active in campus politics. I met maybe two or three genuine socialists. Modern conservatism alienates us under 30 not because of its fiscal views but because we don't want to hear about how our gay friends are terrible people or how our female friends are sluts for using birth control and wanting to use abortion.

191 HappyWarrior  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 1:15:02pm

re: #187 Dark_Falcon

So America is going to end up like China?

/Heh.

Well if that happens, Newt will get more than just student janitors. It's just absurd. But the whole Shariah law fantasy is just that. We've got a beer snob in the White House and people are worried about him implementing Shariah law? The first president that came out in favor of gay marriage is going to implement Sharia Law? I wish people would realize that Newt while no dummy is selling them a bad bit of goods there.

192 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 1:17:50pm

re: #169 A Mom Anon

*looks at watch,taps foot,hums a happy little tune,tra.la.la.*

Score!

193 The Ghost of a Flea  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 1:19:14pm

re: #190 HappyWarrior

The basis of Goldberg's strategy is simple guys. It's like this.
1.) I hate liberals
2.) I hate Nazis
3.) Nazis are liberals.
I am still amused by his fantasy of wanting to "punch young socialists." Really as a former college student and one who was sometimes active in campus politics. I met maybe two or three genuine socialists. Modern conservatism alienates us under 30 not because of its fiscal views but because we don't want to hear about how our gay friends are terrible people or how our female friends are sluts for using birth control and wanting to use abortion.

You forgot:

National Socialist equals socialism which is lefty and kindly ignore that not all socialism is Marxist and absolutely don't read actual platform statements by the Nazis because I, Jonah Goldberg, sure didn't.

194 palomino  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 1:30:02pm

re: #183 Dark_Falcon

I'm often like that, to both parties. It runs in my family and I've always been detail oriented like that.

"Barn burner" is in the eye of the beholder. It's a subjective term.

And there's at least something to back it up. Pundits all over the net, and of all political stripes, are nearly orgasmic over the speech. So calling it a barn burner isn't some major error.

195 Coracle  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 1:41:36pm

re: #194 palomino

"Barn burner" is in the eye of the beholder. It's a subjective term.

And there's at least something to back it up. Pundits all over the net, and of all political stripes, are nearly orgasmic over the speech. So calling it a barn burner isn't some major error.

DF's definition is also, frankly, just wrong. If you want to be pedantic about it, Dark, at least be pedantic and correct.

A barn burner is something (like a sports event - or perhaps a speech) that arouses much interest or excitement. 'An event... that is very exciting or intense'.

196 A Mom Anon  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 2:19:32pm

re: #192 wrenchwench

Annnnnnd *crickets*...I'm sure he just didn't see the posts....

197 Patricia Kayden  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 3:50:53pm

re: #35 erik_t

Hahahahaha! Hilarious.

Maybe the wingnuts would have liked Michelle's speech better if she had ended with, "I love you women!!!!" like Ann.

198 Patricia Kayden  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 4:04:11pm

re: #153 Ming

Watching Michelle Obama's speech last night, I felt honored that they're in the White House.

It's a singular national disgrace that for almost four years, the Obama family has been demonized by many in this country. The birther nonsense goes so far as to insult the entire Obama family, including the President's parents and grandparents. If this unrelenting negativity gives the election to Romney / Ryan, we'll be in uncharted territory in this country.

Agreed. I love how classy the Obamas have remained despite all the racist attacks against them. They are a lovely couple. World class people. Mitt and Ann have nothing on them.

199 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Sep 5, 2012 5:46:52pm

Repost:

I had to work late last night, so I missed the first lady's remarks.

I just watched them.

She spoke with thrumming eloquence and sincerity about true things. She spoke poetry about the people that make America worth fighting for and the people that make this nation great.

She reminded me that all is not lost.

There is still an America worth fighting for. We haven't been beaten yet. We have not yet succumbed to evils and petty greed that spread nothing but fear, hatred, malice and ignorance. We have not yet sewn a full field of destruction.

She said the word love perhaps a dozen times and spoke shamelessly about what matters most.

She spoke of humility and gratitude.

She spoke of hard work.

The right wing gives us a spoiled and heartless creature shaped by the rigours of indolence and unencumbered by mere compassion.

The right wing meme about her currently is that she is fat.

There is a lot of work to do.


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