Remembering 9/11 Eleven Years Later

Remembrance, rebuilding, and continuing controversy.
US News • Views: 34,436

On a morning not all that different than the one forecast for today, it was a bolt from the blue. The skies over New York City were a crisp bright blue with nary a cloud in a sky. It was a morning full of promise.

September 11, 2001 and New Yorkers were heading to the polls to vote on the next mayor of the city. People were talking baseball and the upcoming football season, just as they are doing now. Talk of the Yankees making the playoffs. While everyone was focused on the day ahead, al Qaeda’s terrorists were already on board four jets bound for New York and Washington DC and had already overpowered the crews.

I was on a NJ Transit train with my dad when I first noticed something wrong at the WTC out of the corner of my eye; it was smoke coming from the upper reaches of the tower.

It was just around 8:45.

The world changed, and I didn’t quite realize it.

As they say, read it all.

I’ve been reporting on the battle to rebuild Ground Zero, the ensuing construction efforts for the past 11 years in one form or another, and while I would have hoped that the construction would have been completed by now, that’s not the case. It’s anything but.

Controversy continues and only today did a deal get reached to resume construction on the 9/11 Museum. Work at the museum had stopped not long after last September and the deal between the memorial foundation and the Port Authority means that the museum wont open until the 4Q of 2013, and most likely 2014 at the earliest. There’s also the question of an entrance fee, and that’s a sticky wicket considering that the memorial has exceeded expectations having taken in 4.5 million visitors since it opened last year.

The PATH Transit Hub is also behind schedule and overbudget, while work on 2 and 3 WTC are not likely to be completed beyond a stub height unless tenants are lined up. 1WTC is on pace to be finished next year along with 4WTC. Fiterman Hall opened up a few weeks ago, so there are positive developments but far too much remains undone.

It’s still a work in progress.

Jump to bottom

361 comments
1 prairiefire  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:27:36pm

Thank you for posting this. My cousin had to carry his traumatized large dog in his arms up along Broadway from Tribeca to the north end of the island that afternoon.
NYC is still full of brilliance and promise, its spirit not compromised. It may take a while, but I am confidant you folks will get the memorial right.

2 Kragar  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 8:28:18pm

I was at Camp Lejeune, NC at the time. My section was just getting back into the office from PT. We heard someone had flown a plane into the WTC and made some jokes, thinking it was some kid or student pilot in a Cesna. "How can you not miss the WTC? What a dumbass." Then we got word about the second plane and reports started filtering in. We went on immediate lock down, no computer or phone except official business. My wife was about 4 months pregnant at the time and I wasn't able to get in touch with her until that afternoon, using a civilain's cell phone to call and check on her. We spent the whole day making sure our systems were secure and verifying our network was safe I didn't even see any footage of the attacks until around 6pm.

3 Mocking Jay  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 8:30:12pm

re: #2 Kragar

I was at Camp Lejeune, NC at the time. My section was just getting back into the office from PT. We heard someone had flown a plane into the WTC and made some jokes, thinking it was some kid or student pilot in a Cesna. "How can you not miss the WTC? What a dumbass." Then we got word about the second plane and reports started filtering in. We went on immediate lock down, no computer or phone except official business. My wife was about 4 months pregnant at the time and I wasn't able to get in touch with her until that afternoon, using a civilain's cell phone to call and check on her. We spent the whole day making sure our systems were secure and verifying our network was safe I didn't even see any footage of the attacks until around 6pm.

And someone on base got caught looking up porn. I remember you telling that part of the story.

4 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 8:32:00pm

I was in HS civics class.
Watched the tv for the rest of the day.
Walking home was eerie with no planes in the air. ( I live near Dulles, planes all the time overhead)

5 Mocking Jay  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 8:32:38pm

re: #4 Varek Raith

I was in HS civics class.
Watched the tv for the rest of the day.
Walking home was eerie with no planes in the air. ( I live near Dulles, planes all the time overhead)

Crikey. I didn't think you were that young.

6 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 8:33:33pm

re: #5 Mocking Jay

Crikey. I didn't think you were that young.

28.

7 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 8:34:49pm

I was home with the kids. The oldest only sort of remember.

I thought the same thing as a lot of people; I saw the first headline on the computer and thought it was a small plane.

8 Mocking Jay  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 8:35:12pm

I was working late shifts. Woke up around 11 or 11:30. Turned on MSNBC and saw... that. Got to work around 1. We were sent home a couple of hours later. I drove to a spot near I-87 and looked south. Just spent a couple of minutes looking at the smoke that was still in the air over lower Manhattan.

9 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 8:43:34pm

I stood there, in front of the TV looking at a scene where there was supposed to be two towers. I thought of the people in the missing tower and felt horrendous shock. Then the second tower started crumbling and it took me a minute to realize I was repeating the word 'NO' over and over.

All those people. At the time, it was reported there were likely tens of thousands of people in the buildings when the went down. I don't think my mind could accept those numbers because all of my thoughts consisted of single words.

I can't imagine how the people who witnessed it first hand felt. I don't really want to know.

10 Kragar  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 8:45:56pm

re: #3 Mocking Jay

And someone on base got caught looking up porn. I remember you telling that part of the story.

Yup, total lockdown, very little traffic on the net with everyone watching the logs for signs of a cyber attack when we start getting hits for porn sites on the firewalls.

An E-7, already set to get promoted October 1st, was bored and decided that surfing porn would be a good way to pass the time.

The base Commanding General had him court martialed that day.

11 Petero1818  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 8:49:09pm

I remember getting into the elevator going up to my office and a guy I saw regularly from another floor said, "you hear whats going on?" I had not and he briefly told me. When I walked into the office all my employees were standing around a computer and one of my employees, an Iranian guy, was ashen faced. He told me what they had heard, and together we tried to get information on line. As the talk of Muslim extremists grew, I remember seeing the look in the Iranian guys face. Totally deflated. He was a Muslim - secular, and counted many Jews and Christians among his friends. He is a lovely guy. Honest, kind, well educated and driven to succeed. He cried that day in front of me. In part he cried for the victims but he acknowledged to me later that he cried in part for what he knew this would mean for Muslims here. Given the discourse of the last few years he was right to cry. There are many victims of this horrific act, some we don't think about at first blush.

12 allegro  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 8:49:25pm

I was on my way to work. Heard about the first plane hit on the radio and like many figured it was a small plane. Wondered how the heck with all that open air a small plane couldn't avoid that rather large obstacle. Then the second plane hit and the realization started to sink in. It was only when I got to my office at the university that I heard about the Pentagon. Cancelled my classes and spent the day at the Student Center watching the events unfold with the students looking to us old-timers for reassurance. We couldn't offer any.

13 andres  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 8:51:24pm

I was in the Electromagnetic II class, sitting on the first column, next to last row. A good friend of mine was in the last row. The professor's husband entered the classroom and said that two airplanes had hit the WTC Towers. I remember clearly my friend whispering the name Osama bin Laden, the first time I had heard it. The rest of the class was a blur, and when I went to the Student Center, the huge TV was set on CNN, showing the news. It was surreal...

14 Tigger2  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 8:53:20pm

I had just gotten home from work and was laying on the couch watching TV when a news bulletin came on talking about a plane hitting the tower.

15 Mich-again  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 8:59:11pm

We visited Ground Zero on the 4th of July last Summer. And while we were standing there having a moment of silence as a family, some 911 truthers invaded the space and started with their bullshit. I got in their face and mocked them and told them their theory was the stupidest conspiracy ever and they should take their crap somewhere else. The wife was not pleased with me, but the kids got a lesson in the two edged sword of free speech. You get to say stupid shit and people get to mock you for saying it.

16 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 8:59:42pm

The group I worked with had a party scheduled that day at the beach house of one of my co-workers. I was in the car pulling into a gas station when I heard the one of the local sports talk guys mention that his daughter had called him from NYC to tell him about the first collision. I was paying for gas a few minutes later when I saw the film of the second plane on the TV behind the gas station cashier.

We spent most of the "party" indoors at my co-worker's house glued to the TV.

17 makeitstop  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 9:00:56pm

I was just waking up when I got a call from my wife (then GF) telling me that a plane flew into the WTC. I turned on the TV just in time to see the second plane hit.

I was supposed to go to a client's studio in the Flatiron district that morning to photograph his new mixing room, but he called to cancel the night before.

I often wonder how different my life would be now had I gone to the city that day.

18 sagehen  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 9:01:11pm

I was asleep; it took awhile to penetrate my brain that the sirens and more sirens and continuing sirens were well beyond the normal amount of street noise (and sirens) that a New Yorker learns to sleep through. Then another. And another. And another.

Finally I got up and looked out the window; a seemingly endless stream of fire trucks, each siren barely outside audible range before another one or two or three could be heard coming. At that point, I turned on the computer and TV and got caught up on what everyone else already knew.

Two people from my building didn't come home that day, and one of the dogs at the playgroup had a new person when I saw him that weekend.

19 Gus  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 9:06:17pm

I got up late the way I normally did at the time. Got in my car and started driving to work. It must have been close to 9:30 AM MDT. Turned on the radio which was typically on an NPR station. Started listening to what was on. "What an odd program they have on this morning. It's almost like the War of the Worlds."

Which is a paraphrase. Then I thought, "oh no, this isn't a radio play." That's how odd it seemed to me at first. "This is real!" I flew into a rage until I got to work. The things I screamed to myself would get me banned from LGF. They were already talking about possible suspects. I already knew about the Taliban from reading and contact people about the women's plight in Afghanistan.

I finally saw the building collapse. It was on an old black and white TV. I saw the WTC fall down like man that had been shot. I was in tears as I am now.

20 Gus  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 9:08:16pm

Then. I learned it was both towers. Finally, the kick to the teeth. The Pentagon had been hit. I was pretty neutral to Bush at the time.

21 Gus  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 9:11:56pm

Within roughly 24 hours I was drawing picture of Osama bin Laden in a sniper sight. I was working with a young woman there who was like a secular Muslim from Indonesia. She pretty cool. She saw that and said, "no, you shouldn't do that." I knew what she meant in the "spiritual" sense.

22 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 9:13:35pm

Before I went to NYC to visit my then girlfriend now ex-wife my impression of the Twin Towers was shaped by this scene in the documentary The Cruise, about NYC tour guide Timothy "Speed" Levitch.

In 2002, after the towers fell a film crew found Speed and together they produced the following, incredible, truly unique commentary in three parts.

23 Obdicut  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 9:14:26pm

I was living with a Vietnamese resident alien. He had been born in the last year of the war. His dad had done some stuff for the Americans and after a fourteen-year odyssey-- including his dad being thrown in jail in Cambodia, where he lost three fingers, and my friend contracting polio in Thailand-- they were granted entrance to the US and permanent resident alien status.

I was the one to come home and tell him that it was happening, and we both dully stared at the TV. He said "Here, too, now." And I understand what he meant in that moment. Later, we talked more about it. He'd come from a country ravaged by war, grown up surrounded by violence, and the US had been a refuge for him. He wasn't a citizen, he was a resident alien, and had a complex relationship with the US, as many Vietnamese do, but the US meant safety to him, and now that was gone; not that the actual odds in dying in an attack like this was large, but because America would change because of this.

I'm glad he was there with me that day, it was good just to be able to have another human being to talk to.

24 Gus  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 9:16:11pm

Soon. The skies drew silent.

25 makeitstop  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 9:16:15pm

I remember going outside and standing in my back yard late that afternoon. I could smell that acrid, burning-electrical-wires smell from WTC 40 miles out on Long Island. It persisted for days.

26 Gus  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 9:16:24pm

No more contrails.

27 Gus  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 9:16:52pm

Occasionally seeing AF heavies making u-turns in the sky.

28 Gus  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 9:18:35pm

And none of us was thinking, Iraq.

29 Mocking Jay  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 9:22:44pm

WTC cameos

30 makeitstop  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 9:23:52pm

Throughout the day, fighter jets flew low over LI. It was nerve-wracking, hearing them and not knowing whether they were simply patrolling or chasing down another rogue plane.

There was so much unknown that day.

31 Gus  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 9:24:35pm

I almost felt sorry at the time for the Taliban leaders that started trying to defend themselves. It was mostly high "preist" talk. Political. Meanwhile, the clock was ticking. Bush gave them either 24 or 72 hours to "give up." I thought that was nice of him. It would be interesting to see where those guys are now. Before then, I knew that the Taliban were brutal.

32 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 9:25:17pm

I was a junior in high school, was just in the start of US & VA History when our teacher got called out of the room, only to return a moment later to say that a plane had hit the World Trade Center. Most of us thought the same thing as a lot of folks when they first heard, that it was some commuter or private plane that had had a bad accident. Still remember reading about the B-25 that hit the Empire State Building, plane went in one side, parts and scraps of metal came out the other.

We turned on the TV maybe minutes after the second plane hit and the whole room just went silent. You couldn't even hear whispering, because everybody was absolutely glued to the screen. I can still remember the initial reports about the Pentagon getting struck, about word that Flight 93 had crashed somewhere in Pennsylvania. But what I'll always remember is watching the smoke and the flames, the sudden explosion of dust and debris as first one and the other tower collapsed to the streets below. Wasn't more than a couple minutes after the second tower settled that class ended.

I was taking an elective course in C++ computer programming at the tech school across town, which meant I had to drive there listening only to the radio for further news. When I finally got over there, we spent maybe all of five minutes trying to have normal class, then everybody drifted over to one of the neighboring classrooms where a projector had been set up to show the news. Nobody really knew what to do, we were just high school kids, this wasn't anything we'd ever seen before. When I got home, I found out from my folks (both still stationed at NAS Oceana at the time) that the military had gone into full lockdown and the base was virtually a fortress now. Even months later, I remember driving through the checkpoint and seeing this camouflaged pillbox with a couple of MPs and a loaded M60. Never any doubt that they were willing to use it if they had to.

33 SpaceJesus  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 9:26:28pm

Had an exchange student from Norway that year, we were walking to school when a buddy of mine drove by us walking, saw us, then stopped to chat. We were at his apartment the night before having beers and we mainly talked about last night, but before he pulled away he asked if we had heard about the WTC, I said no, and he said the buildings had been knocked down by jets. Terrorists they thought. We got to school and the teachers said we didn't have to be there because everybody was pretty scared that day, so I met up with my exchange student and we went to go play golf for the rest of the day at the empty muni. Played pretty shitty, shot in the mid 80s. Can't believe that was 11 years ago.

34 Gus  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 9:30:42pm

Listening to Giuliani. The gathering of the clergy. The somber faces the FDNY and NYPD. The waiting of families of then missing persons that occupied the WTC.

The jumpers.

35 Gus  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 9:30:59pm

Helter Skelter

36 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 9:32:34pm

I'm, sadly, ambivalent this year about the the whole thing. I'm not forgetting, just not rehashing the hatred and fear the event caused me to feel. I want to move forward.

37 Gus  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 9:33:22pm

Learning that the hijackers murderers were rather intelligent and well educated young men.

38 Mocking Jay  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 9:35:50pm
39 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 9:35:54pm

re: #36 ggt

I'm, sadly, ambivalent this year about the the whole thing. I'm not forgetting, just not rehashing the hatred and fear the event caused me to feel. I want to move forward.

Yeah, after the first couple anniversaries, it was hard to get worked up over again. I imagine it's sort of how people look back at the Kennedy assassination or the Challenger explosion. You remember those events, you remember where you were when you first heard or witnessed them. But the feelings slowly ebb over time, til all you have is the images.

40 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 9:37:45pm

re: #39 Targetpractice

Yeah, after the first couple anniversaries, it was hard to get worked up over again. I imagine it's sort of how people look back at the Kennedy assassination or the Challenger explosion. You remember those events, you remember where you were when you first heard or witnessed them. But the feelings slowly ebb over time, til all you have is the images.

some sadness, mostly. That 11? years later we seem even more fucked-up.

41 Gus  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 9:38:00pm

Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound,
That saved a wretch like me.
I once was lost but now am found,
Was blind, but now I see.

42 Mocking Jay  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 9:39:13pm

re: #40 ggt

some sadness, mostly. That 11? years later we seem even more fucked-up.

Paranoid.

43 Gus  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 9:40:13pm
44 abolitionist  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 9:42:49pm

I had stayed home from work that day for a dentist appointment, saw my daughters off to school, and was watching the news coverage beginning about the time the 2nd plane struck. Saw both towers fall, and kept watching all day except for my appointment.

45 wheat-dogg  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 9:45:34pm

Looking at movies set in NYC before 2001 and seeing the towers still there. Then realizing they're gone now, and I watched them fall.

46 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 9:48:40pm

bbl

47 Targetpractice  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 9:48:58pm

Worked at a local grocery store at the time, worked the afternoon of Sept 12th. God, you'd swear that WWIII had just been declared. People were grabbing canned goods, dry goods, bottled water, batteries, you name it. In retrospect, I understand that folks were panicking over the worry that there might be further attacks. Terrorism had just happened on our home soil, we had no clue how deep it went or how much damage would be done before it was over. But at the time, all I could do was watch folks roll up to the register with carts stacked with food and think "These people are out of their minds."

48 Gus  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 9:59:12pm
49 abolitionist  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 10:04:32pm

In the summer of 2011, I'd watched Beneath the Veil, an undercover documentary about Afghanistan, the Taliban, the destruction from years of war there, and the deplorable situation with women's rights. Many months before, I'd seen footage of the interview with OBL, in which he declared war on us, back in 1998.

50 Gus  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 10:05:10pm

@markoconnor35

Official Mark O'Connor Twitter Page: Composer/Violinist/Fiddler; concertos/symphonies - rock - folk/bluegrass/country - jazz, blues-improv. The O'Connor Method.

51 darthstar  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 10:27:29pm

My wife and I went out to dinner, then stopped at a local bar for a night-cap before coming home...mostly hispanics and blue-collar guys at the bar...Raiders/Chargers game on the TV. Raiders quarterback throws a pass that his receiver lets slip through his fingers. I look at my wife and say, "If he was a baseball player he would have caught that." Mexican guy sitting next to my wife turns his head, looks at me, and nods in agreement.

Verdict: Baseball is far more exciting and requires much more skill than the heavily padded pussy sport of football. (and I mean that in the most emasculating way you can imagine, so don't get me wrong and think I'm talking about cute felines...I'm saying football players are pussies. That doesn't mean they are women. Women are strong and can pass the equivalent of a watermelon through their vaginas...we men cry like a fucking baby when a tiny kidney stone we can't even see passes through our urethra.)

52 engineer cat  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 10:37:52pm

next year it will be the 50th anniversary of nov 22 1963

we will be as far away from jfk as they were from lincoln in the year 1915

53 darthstar  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 10:39:10pm

re: #52 engineer cat

next year it will be the 50th anniversary of nov 22 1963

we will be as far away from jfk as they were from lincoln in the year 1915

I'll never let my kids marry a Boothe.

55 danhenry1  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 10:46:38pm

Not one person Jumped. Each and every one of them were forced out of those towers because of a terrible choice of how one wanted to continue.

56 Gus  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 10:48:59pm

It hurt.

57 Gus  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 10:51:08pm

Semper fidelis.

58 abolitionist  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 10:59:10pm

re: #49 abolitionist
Just a bit off:
In the summer of 2011 2001, I'd watched Beneath the Veil, ...

60 abolitionist  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 11:21:16pm

OT: Rand Paul: No more 'bomb everybody'

Kentucky Sen. Rand Paul said Monday that Republicans can win in New England and on the West Coast if they’re willing to drop a “we need to bomb everybody tomorrow” foreign policy.
[snip]

Venn diagrams and set theory --how do they work?

61 Kragar  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 11:36:10pm

Photos of dead police officer posted outside Tennessee farm

Two brothers who shot and killed a sheriff's deputy have placed photos of the slain lawman outside the entrance of their farm, calling it a "warning" to other law enforcement officials.

The Associated Press reports that the photos show the "bullet-riddled bodies" of Roane County Deputy Bill Jones and ride-along Mike Brown, who were shot and killed on May 11, 2006, after arriving at the home of Rocky Houston to deliver an arrest warrant.

"It goes without saying that any public display on their own property of these photos in whatever manner by the Houstons is despicable and certainly runs counter to the Houstons' claims of innocence," District Attorney General Russell Johnson said in a news release.

However, it also appears that the sign is perfectly within the Houstons' First Amendment rights.

"We are trying to report federal crimes, and we feel like our plea has fallen on deaf ears," Rocky Houston told AP.

Rocky and Leon Houston were acquitted of murder charges when prosecutors were unable to prove that they fired first after Jones and Brown entered their property. The Houston brothers insist that the two men showed up to kill them and opened fire without warning.

62 freetoken  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 11:40:13pm

re: #61 Kragar

Violently anti-social rednecks - what a comment on America.

63 freetoken  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 11:41:50pm

Tonight I'll be working through Mozart's last and perhaps greatest work, his Requiem:

64 Kragar  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 11:42:21pm

re: #62 freetoken

Violently anti-social rednecks - what a comment on America.

Guys have Sovereign Citizen BS all over them.

65 Kragar  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 11:48:03pm

Deputy and a ride-along get shot in their car, 2 guys had been laying in wait, and they get acquitted because no one could prove who shot first.

What a joke.

66 freetoken  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 12:27:44am
67 researchok  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 1:08:58am

Morning, all

68 researchok  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 1:18:13am

re: #63 freetoken

re: #66 freetoken

A most appropriate selection for today.

Thank you.

69 Decatur Deb  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 1:26:43am

Our organization was a remote detachment of the Pentagon, called a Field Operating Agency. We maintained a liaison office there, which had been moved across the highway because of the 'hardening' construction underway.

When the word of the first plane reached us, our reaction was 'traffic helicopter or commuter plane'. When we got word of the second hit we turned on the office widescreen. About then we opened a line with our Crystal City people describing the hit on the Pentagon. We started getting ready for the response that we knew the Army would make. Half our shop was old civilians, half young Army aviators.

70 freetoken  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 1:38:06am
71 Decatur Deb  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 1:58:18am

re: #62 freetoken

Violently anti-social rednecks - what a comment on America.

re: #64 Kragar

Guys have Sovereign Citizen BS all over them.

You could both be right, but go back and read some of the article comments made by locals. There was a lot going on in that county.

72 freetoken  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 2:05:14am

re: #71 Decatur Deb

The whole scene then is probably a lost cause. I just can't relate to what goes on in some places.

73 freetoken  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 2:05:31am
74 Decatur Deb  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 2:15:18am

re: #72 freetoken

The whole scene then is probably a lost cause. I just can't relate to what goes on in some places.

Did a couple seasons of archaeological surveys in Eastern Kentucky. There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in (y)our philosophy.

75 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 2:43:55am

Morning Honcos.

76 freetoken  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 2:59:42am

And finally, "Lux Aeterna":

77 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 4:02:22am

Scientology threatens Vanity Fair over Tom Cruise 'auditions' claims
[Link: www.independent.co.uk...]
Kooks.

78 Shropshire_Slasher  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 4:24:22am

Pittsfield man pleads guilty to assaulting mother during bacon spat
[Link: www.berkshireeagle.com...]
This stuff just writes itself!
mmmmbacon

79 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 4:26:53am

re: #78 Tommy's cone of shame

Pittsfield man pleads guilty to assaulting mother during bacon spat
[Link: www.berkshireeagle.com...]
This stuff just writes itself!
mmmmbacon

From the link:
Rougeau was also facing three felony counts of vandalism for allegedly attacking his ex-girlfriend's car during an argument by kicking the door, attempting to pull off the windshield wipers, and then jumping on the car's hood and kicking in the windshield.
This guy needs help. You know what would help? Scientology.
/

80 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 4:34:07am

What was I doing on 9/11?

I was not working at the time. My contract at GM had ended a few months earlier. I dropped off my daughter at school and my son at Community College, turned on the car radio and heard something about a small plane hitting the WTC.

I came home and used my dialup account to log on to cnn.com just as the second plane hit.

The Internet was super slow so I went downstairs and turned on the TV and then didn't move for 3 days (except to pick up my kids when classes were cancelled).

81 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 4:36:56am

Oh, and I had a plane ticket to fly in to NY on 9/13 for my grandson's bris. That totally did not happen (the bris happened, not the airline flight). I actually received a REFUND from the airline.

82 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 4:44:14am

re: #80 Learned Mother of Zion

My vacation was to start on 9/12. Was watching my father's house out in the country (dad was in Canada). Nice and quiet. I was planning on finishing a screenplay I was writing. Spent the week on the couch watching all the coverage. Heard about the second plane while on my way to work, which was 3 miles away from SRQ, where President Bush took off from.
My friend had a car repair shop not far from the airport and was smoking a cigarette outside when he saw the motorcade go buy, not knowing what was going on. He went back inside and turned on his radio.
I finished the screenplay a year later.

83 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 4:54:58am

If you haven't read Tilly's Story please read it now!

Reading the comments is like walking through a graveyard.

84 wiffersnapper  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 5:00:17am

Was going to the orthodontist's that morning. All day in school we had the news turned on or were talking about it in class discussions. Humbling experience, no doubt.

85 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 5:23:43am

Morning Lizardim. Today dawned cool and perfectly clear, just like another September 11 I remember from 11 years ago. I've told my story multiple times here, so for those who are new(er), the short version is that I was a senior in high school and one of the teachers had it on, and I walked into the classroom right at the second impact. As a not-completely-unrelated bit of trivia, today also marks my 6th LGFversary; I signed up because I had found LGF at some point in my Internet wanderings, and there was an open registration on the morning of 9/11/06.

86 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 5:25:45am

re: #85 thedopefishlives

We're just glad you're not one of those 2004 people. They're nuts!!!
///

87 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 5:26:57am

re: #86 Cannadian Club Akbar

We're just glad you're not one of those 2004 people. They're nuts!!!
///

Totally. :)

88 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 5:36:31am

Also, because of 9/11, the baseball season got knocked back a week. Because of the week being pushed back, I got to see the Rays (1 PM), the Bucs (4:15 PM) and the Lightning (7 PM) all play the same day, all regular season games. Only got to see the first inning of the Rays, then off to Tampa, watched the entire Bucs game and got to the Lightning game at the start of the second period.

89 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 5:43:21am

Wingnuts are freaking out over this NY Times piece which claims that Bush failed to act on intel that could have prevented 9/11. They are calling it Troofer. I don't know how failing to act on intel because they didn't realize the seriousness of the threat can be construed as "Troofy". NOBODY was prepared for an attack of that magnitude.

90 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 5:48:51am

First airliner hit the WTC at exactly this time 11 years ago.

91 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 5:50:11am

re: #89 Learned Mother of Zion

Wingnuts are freaking out over this NY Times piece which claims that Bush failed to act on intel that could have prevented 9/11. They are calling it Troofer. I don't know how failing to act on intel because they didn't realize the seriousness of the threat can be construed as "Troofy". NOBODY was prepared for an attack of that magnitude.

Bin Laden declared war on us in 1998.
[Link: www.pbs.org...]

92 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 5:50:47am

re: #91 Cannadian Club Akbar

Bin Laden declared war on us in 1998.
[Link: www.pbs.org...]

The first WTC attack was in 1993.

93 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 5:52:13am

re: #89 Learned Mother of Zion

Wingnuts are freaking out over this NY Times piece which claims that Bush Your text to link...failed to act on intel that could have prevented 9/11. They are calling it Troofer. I don't know how failing to act on intel because they didn't realize the seriousness of the threat can be construed as "Troofy". NOBODY was prepared for an attack of that magnitude.

Groan. There's a difference between letting it happen out of sheer incompetence and intentionally allowing it to happen. Thus the difference between the sane world and 9/11 Twoofy Twoof.

94 Decatur Deb  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 5:55:23am

re: #93 thedopefishlives

Groan. There's a difference between letting it happen out of sheer incompetence and intentionally allowing it to happen. Thus the difference between the sane world and 9/11 Twoofy Twoof.

Make that three or more levels of difference--the hardcore troofers say the government did it, not just failed to prevent it. All that's different from Rep Kucinich claiming that the administration just failed and swept its failure under the rug.

95 sagehen  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 5:55:24am

I still get angry about Condi's bullshit "nobody could have predicted" testimony. Somebody *could* have predicted. It was her JOB to have predicted. People at the CIA did predict, she (and/or her boss) just chose to disregard those predictions.

96 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 5:56:28am

re: #92 Learned Mother of Zion

The first WTC attack was in 1993.

I know this. 1998 is when he did the ABC interview. I think he did another in 2001, a couple months before the attacks (IIRC) with the same guy. AND, FWIW, I googled 9 11 troofer. This was the 10th entry.
[Link: www.viciousbabushka.com...]
Heh.

97 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 5:59:32am

re: #96 Cannadian Club Akbar

I know this. 1998 is when he did the ABC interview. I think he did another in 2001, a couple months before the attacks (IIRC) with the same guy. AND, FWIW, I googled 9 11 troofer. This was the 10th entry.
[Link: www.viciousbabushka.com...]
Heh.

The little shit says:

“Why was 9/11 was a official holiday for all Jewish people worked in the WTC?” Alam asked in an Internet discussion titled, “Was 9/11 a conspiracy??” He continued, “My question was, ‘What’s the reason not a single Jew was killed on that day,’” Alam said, maintaining that his inquiries are based on facts, rather than a bias against Jewish people. “Was there a single Jew killed on that day?”

A bunch of Jewish people died on 9/11. Abe Zelmanowitz, Danny Lewin, Shimmy Biegeleisen (off the top of my head). I have a book at home that lists them all.

98 A Mom Anon  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 6:00:56am

The Husband was in Houston for business. For the first time ever,I went back to bed after my son got on the bus for school. The phone rang and woke me and the Husband told me to turn on the TV,NOW. We were talking and both watching tv when the second plane hit. I sat down and began to cry. He said"I need to figure out how to get home,no one's going to be flying anywhere for awhile". He and a few co-workers rented a van and drove back to Atlanta. Meanwhile,I tried calling the school and got a busy signal. Hung up to get ready to go up to the school and his teacher called me to say that I should not go get him,that it would be best to let him stay in class. The schools here were overwhelmed with phone calls and scared parents running to get their kids out of class. My son was in a self contained special ed class at the time (K and grade 1 together)and the kids had no idea what was going on. The schools here went on lockdown until the school day was over,there were cops at every school in the county,and I was in a fog til my son got home that day.

I tried to figure out how to explain all this to a little kid and decided to keep it simple til he got older. It still doesn't make sense,but it does show how much damage hate can do. Maybe that's the lesson of this day,that hatred can turn into a disease. Hate is really what we're fighting in this country now,it destroys from within and takes down everything in it's path.

99 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 6:01:21am

re: #97 Learned Mother of Zion

The little shit says:

A bunch of Jewish people died on 9/11. Abe Zelmanowitz, Danny Lewin, Shimmy Biegeleisen (off the top of my head). I have a book at home that lists them all.

I still want to find that little douche who made "Loose Change" and rip that idiotic soul patch off of him.

100 Sionainn  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 6:01:36am

I was getting ready for work when my husband yelled to me that a plane had hit the first tower. I ran downstairs and ate my breakfast, watching the t.v., thinking that a small plane had somehow crashed into the tower...until I watched the second plane hit and realized that was no small plane and it was no accident. I had to run out the door and pick up the other teachers for our hour long commute to the rural school where we were teaching. The radio was on and we sat there in stunned silence, listening to the news that a plane had hit the Pentagon, that another plane was missing, and then, just before we got to the school, the news that the tower had collapsed. Tears were streaming down my face as I tried to drive without getting into an accident, wondering how I was going to face a room full of 1st graders.

101 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 6:02:10am

Local NPR classical music station just played Barber's "Adagio for Strings." I'll let that suffice for my memories of 9/11 today.

102 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 6:04:27am

At this time exactly 11 years ago, United 175 hit the second tower.

103 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 6:05:56am

re: #100 Sionainn

The station we were watching (and I don't remember which one) had a reporter at the Pentagon that was actually on the phone with the anchor when the plane hit. You couldn't hear the actual impact, but the reporter was audibly shaken and got off the phone very quickly. I gather that he was about 1/4 of the way around the building from the impact site.

104 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 6:09:25am

If anyone hasn't seen the documentary/special that was made about the air traffic controllers on 9/11, try and find it. I can't remember if it was A&E, TLC, Discovery or NatGeo.

105 tomg51spence  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 6:16:37am

I was in Caracas, Venezuela in the national oil company's office.
They somehow thought I could explain it.
Flew to another city that night for a meeting the next day.
CNN en Espanol - couldn't understand a thing.
But the people were great with me.
Their churches filled that night

106 A Mom Anon  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 6:17:17am

re: #100 Sionainn

I don't know how the teachers and staff at schools all around the country carried on that day. My hat's off to you. That class you were teaching then are all out of school now. My son is the same age,school had been in session less than a month here at the time. Our whole community changed,and not for the better I am sad to say. It wasn't a month and the blame began shifting to liberals,I saw liberal hunting license bumper stickers show up on cars,local restaurants and bars began blaring Fox News and nothing else,hell,I had neighbors stop speaking to us that we'd been close to since we moved here. Those relationships are only now being slowly repaired,but the liberal hating hasn't got any better.

And then the anthrax attacks after that. It's odd that that whole bit of madness is often forgotten when we remember this time of our country's history.

107 lawhawk  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 6:19:08am

Greets and saluts from the NYC metro area. Just passed through the WTC a few minutes ago and it was a surreal scene. For starters, PATH operates into WTC and they stopped the trains in conjunction with moments of silence for each of the plane strikes and then later this morning when the towers fell.

You're left alone with your thoughts. Then, you emerge into the WTC station and are met with a mass of commuters slowly making their way to work.

Thousands of people shuffling along slowly as they proceeded up Vesey to Church. Throngs of camera crews lined Vesey between Church and Broadway, while families of victims and others lined Church in silent contemplation.

And the day was very much like that one 11 years ago. Amazingly crystal clear blue skies, crisp with a touch of warmth, and full of hope and promise.

My friend legalbgl, who has done pro bono work helping those with the Zadroga Fund has also worked on the Project 2,996 commemoration over the past couple of years, and this year is no exception. His commemoration this year was for Mary Lenz Weiman.

108 RadicalModerate  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 6:29:43am

For those interested, MSNBC is currently rebroadcasting the Sept 11 2001 NBC broadcast, unedited.

109 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 6:30:35am

re: #60 abolitionist

OT: Rand Paul: No more 'bomb everybody'


Venn diagrams and set theory --how do they work?

But from "bomb everyone" to complete Know-Nothing isolationism (which I suspect is the source position of Mr Paul's remark) is not a workable policy either.

110 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 6:31:00am

re: #108 RadicalModerate

For those interested, MSNBC is currently rebroadcasting the Sept 11 2001 NBC broadcast, unedited.

NBC is what I was watching before going to work that day.

111 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 6:35:34am

WTF

112 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 6:36:59am

re: #111 Learned Mother of Zion

WTF

[Embedded content]

I saw the pic earlier, didn't bother to click. But they're gone now.

113 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 6:40:56am

Exactly at this time 11 years ago, Pentagon was hit.

114 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 6:41:51am
115 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 6:42:22am

re: #113 Learned Mother of Zion

Exactly at this time 11 years ago, Pentagon was hit.

And that was the moment it all really sank in for me, finally. The WTC were an abstract, buildings I had heard of but didn't know much about; the Pentagon, though, was a fortress, a symbol of America's military prowess. And the terrorists blasted a hole in it with a crudely fashioned guided missile.

116 GunstarGreen  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 6:43:07am

What happened on September 11, 2001 was a tragedy.

But the far greater tragedy has been how this country has responded to it in the last 11 years.

117 ReamWorks SKG  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 6:45:25am

As someone who flys a LOT (United Global Service, AA Exec Plat, WN A-List, etc) 9/11 means I can't fly without being molested at the gate, without me having to watch my personal items like a hawk, lest a uniformed agent of the federal government steals them (I had a watch stolen at LAX by a TSA Officer who was subsequently arrested and found with an apartment full of stolen items) or having to remove my belt and my shoes.

Here I am, on August 31, 2001:

Image: 2955864988_0bb26fee5f_b.jpg

118 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 6:45:36am

DONALD DERP

119 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 6:49:11am

Good morning lizards.

9-11-01 is a day I will never forget. I hope and pray this will never happen again. Thank goodness we have a great military and security service that is keeping us protected from these evil SOBs.

120 A Mom Anon  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 6:50:15am

re: #118 Learned Mother of Zion

Donald,sit down and have a nice steaming cup of STFU. Keep feeding the hate,asshole. Can I punch him in the hair?

121 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 6:51:05am

re: #120 A Mom Anon

Donald,sit down and have a nice steaming cup of STFU. Keep feeding the hate,asshole. Can I punch him in the hair?

Only if you want to get your fist stuck.

122 darthstar  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 6:52:44am

Mornin' everyone.

123 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 6:53:53am

re: #120 A Mom Anon

Don't bother. He's just another attack gnat. Buzzes around accomplishes little if anything.

124 Eventual Carrion  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 6:58:04am

re: #62 freetoken

Violently anti-social rednecks - what a comment on America.

Yep, and one day they will act a shit for brains to someone who isn't constrained by any convention of law just like themselves and they will be whining like little bitches when the shit comes on their heads. I've known many of these types across this nation.

125 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 6:59:57am

re: #124 RayFerd

Yep, and one day they will act a shit for brains to someone who isn't constrained by any convention of law just like themselves and they will be whining like little bitches when the shit comes on their heads. I've known many of these types across this nation.

I'm reminded of Buzz Aldrin punching that moon-hoaxer in the face.

126 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 7:01:43am

re: #97 Learned Mother of Zion

The little shit says:

A bunch of Jewish people died on 9/11. Abe Zelmanowitz, Danny Lewin, Shimmy Biegeleisen (off the top of my head). I have a book at home that lists them all.

My shitbag brother-in-law stopped by my house a couple years ago and told me and my mother who was visiting about no Jews being in the WTC when it was hit. He went on and on about how the Zionists warned them and they left the buildings before the first attack.

After me and my mother destroyed every moonbat comment he made he left. I haven't seen him since.

127 Obdicut  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 7:03:18am

re: #126 NJDhockeyfan

That belief isn't really a moonbat belief. There's plenty of troofers on all points of the political spectrum.

128 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 7:04:19am

At this time 11 years ago, Flight 93 crashed in Shanksville PA.

129 ReamWorks SKG  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 7:05:40am

re: #126 NJDhockeyfan

One of the variants of the "No Jews" rumor states that the accident happened on a Jewish Holiday. That always confounded me because it would have been simple enough to check a Jewish Calendar and see!

Of course, there's still people, including this Missouri Democrat, who are still saying this:

[Link: www.viciousbabushka.com...]

Here's another source, albeit not the best

[Link: freebeacon.com...]

130 abolitionist  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 7:08:04am

re: #128 Learned Mother of Zion

At this time 11 years ago, Flight 93 crashed in Shanksville PA.

United 93 clips at IMDB

131 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 7:08:13am

re: #129 ReamWorks SKG

One of the variants of the "No Jews" rumor states that the accident happened on a Jewish Holiday. That always confounded me because it would have been simple enough to check a Jewish Calendar and see!

Of course, there's still people, including this Missouri Democrat, who are still saying this:

(MY APOLOGIES FOR A BRIETBART LINK!)

[Link: www.breitbart.com...]

You could have linked to my blog instead of Breitbart.

132 makeitstop  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 7:08:51am

re: #118 Learned Mother of Zion

DONALD DERP

[Embedded content]

Derp takes no holiday.

I've said it before - Trump's tweets illustrate what happens when you're a loudmouth and you don't have a boss to tell you to knock it of and get back to work.

133 ReamWorks SKG  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 7:09:12am

re: #131 Learned Mother of Zion

FIXED

134 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 7:13:09am

re: #129 ReamWorks SKG

One of the variants of the "No Jews" rumor states that the accident happened on a Jewish Holiday. That always confounded me because it would have been simple enough to check a Jewish Calendar and see!

Of course, there's still people, including this Missouri Democrat, who are still saying this:

[Link: www.viciousbabushka.com...]

Here's another source, albeit not the best

[Link: freebeacon.com...]

9/11 conspiracy theories

135 lawhawk  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 7:16:42am

re: #131 Learned Mother of Zion

And it should be clear that MD Alam isn't actually an elected official. He's running for office, and his name has come up at LGF in the past as someone whose website is enough to cause lasting vision damage.

136 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 7:17:56am
137 Decatur Deb  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 7:18:42am

re: #136 NJDhockeyfan

[Embedded content]

Hate it when I agree with Ari Fleischer.

138 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 7:19:10am

Rosie on fire not melting steel.
[Link: www.popularmechanics.com...]
Steel melted from tanker truck accident.
[Link: www.sfgate.com...]
Dear Troofers, fuck off.

139 ReamWorks SKG  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 7:19:19am

There are some 9/11 conspiracy / OWSers who huddle together here and are always out in front of a large San Jose shopping mall. One of the signs they carry says that Dianne Feinstein was behind 9/11! As if she could possibly be effective enough to organize a Vast Conspiracy!

140 Gus  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 7:19:27am

Happy Punch a 9/11 Conspiracy Theorist in the Face Day!

//

141 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 7:20:15am

re: #140 Gus

Happy Punch a 9/11 Conspiracy Theorist in the Face Day!

//

WIN!!!!

142 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 7:20:37am

re: #136 NJDhockeyfan

[Embedded content]

the NYT describes general incompetence and disbelief at the magnitude of the threat, not at the level of "Troofiness"

143 Interesting Times  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 7:20:45am

re: #136 NJDhockeyfan

re: #137 Decatur Deb

This has already been discussed above. Fleischer's deflect-deny-distort-style accusation is absurd.

144 Gus  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 7:20:48am

re: #141 Cannadian Club Akbar

WIN!!!!

Thank you. Thank you very much.

145 lawhawk  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 7:20:54am

BTW, I've used the convention of nearly 3,000 killed in the attacks. While the number has fluctuated over the years, the sad fact is that there have been hundreds of first responders who have died of injuries and illnesses sustained as a result of working at Ground Zero in the days and weeks after the collapses. The Zadroga Act is meant to compensate those suffering from 9/11 related ailments, and the list of illnesses covered has been expanded to cover various forms of cancers, which is a mixed bag since it could mean that more people are covered, but each would get less compensation (spreading the limited compensation funds over a greater number of people).

Yet, it's the least that the nation can do to address the health woes of those affected by the 9/11-related ailments.

146 ReamWorks SKG  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 7:21:08am

LMoZ:

I liked the story of the Frum woman who tracked down Tawanda Deckard for stealing and using her wallet:

[Link: www.vosizneias.com...]

It's a sad footnote that instead of just leaving the items and running, the thief tried to make it into a racial/religious thing by claiming to be a Muslim and saying "You are all greedy, why can’t you just let it go?’"

147 Decatur Deb  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 7:22:19am

re: #143 Interesting Times

re: #137 Decatur Deb

This has already been discussed above. Fleischer's deflect-deny-distort-style accusation is absurd.

Yup--now that I've read it, Fleischer is misrepresenting the article. It is blamefull, but agrees that Bush did not know when and where.

148 A Mom Anon  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 7:24:31am

re: #127 Obdicut

That was one of the easiest things to debunk too. It wasn't a Jewish holiday,any decent calendar can show that. Then there's like,the actual people who died,some of whom were Jewish. A magnitude of derpitude knows no political affiliation. The division has to stop somewhere,all of us are Americans first,whether our political preferences match or not. That's my biggest stumbling block,I have a terrible time forgiving people who continue to use division and smug nastiness to keep the infighting going. I don't give a damn what a person's politics are,I care about who they are. I'd also bet alot of people on both sides of the spectrum would agree on alot of policy and politics if it didn't have a right/left label on it. That makes me sadder than about anything.

149 makeitstop  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 7:24:59am

re: #136 NJDhockeyfan

[Embedded content]

Yeah, Ari's interpreting that op-ed pretty broadly.

150 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 7:25:47am

At one time, you could count on the gun culture to at least respect the law: "Support you local police" bumper-stickers, "law and order" politics etc.
Now, after years of conspiracist indoctrination and NRA incitement, the opposite is true.

I think we are likely to see some serious violence from the far right when Obama is re-elected. Their oft-stated positions, attributing every form of crime and tyranny to the current administration, justify it on their face.
There won't be any kind of mass uprising, most wingnuts have too much to lose for that. There will be a lot of lone wolf attacks, though, by people who buy the tea party/Alex Jones shtick but live on the fringes of society.
There may also be some confrontations between the feds and a few back of beyond local officials who accept various conspiracy claims and, especially, the Posse Comitatus (racist gang, not the law) meme that there is no legitimate authority above the county level.

151 Interesting Times  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 7:26:17am

How thoroughly ironic - wingnuts who endlessly bitch and moan about "OMG dissenting voices on evolution/climate change are silenced by teh librul elite!!1!!" love to do that very thing to entirely legitimate questions about lapses in US intelligence, procedure, and process re Sept 11.

AGAIN: analyzing intelligence failures != LIHOP/MIHOP trutherism. To suggest it does is not only asinine, it leaves the US less able to learn from any mistakes and thus prevent future attacks.

152 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 7:26:38am

re: #138 Cannadian Club Akbar

Rosie on fire not melting steel.
[Link: www.popularmechanics.com...]
Steel melted from tanker truck accident.
[Link: www.sfgate.com...]
Dear Troofers, fuck off.

Fire does not melt steel. It's been tested and proven!

Can a jet fuel/hydrocarbon fire collapse a steel structure? An experiment.

153 Decatur Deb  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 7:26:38am

re: #149 makeitstop

Yeah, Ari's interpreting that op-ed pretty broadly.

You are too kind. My opinion of Fleischer and the order of the universe are restored.

154 ReamWorks SKG  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 7:26:59am

While I hate to waste more typing on this, to think that anyone believes there's some master phone list where we can call every Jew and tell them 1) to stay home from work and 2) to keep their mouth shut about it is mind-boggling! Maybe the Mormons or the Scientology or the Catholics have complete dossiers on all their members, but there's no central authority or organization in Judaism other than G-d. That's the point of it.

155 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 7:27:56am

At this exact time 11 years ago the second Tower collapsed.

156 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 7:28:34am

re: #152 NJDhockeyfan

Fire does not melt steel. It's been tested and proven!

Can a jet fuel/hydrocarbon fire collapse a steel structure? An experiment.

Well hells bells!! I'm convinced!!!
/

157 Decatur Deb  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 7:28:42am

re: #154 ReamWorks SKG

While I hate to waste more typing on this, to think that anyone believes there's some master phone list where we can call every Jew and tell them 1) to stay home from work and 2) to keep their mouth shut about it is mind-boggling! Maybe the Mormons or the Scientology or the Catholics have complete dossiers on all their members, but there's no central authority or organization in Judaism other than G-d. That's the point of it.

You leave secret messages in your funny writing on Chinese menus, where it blends in.

158 makeitstop  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 7:30:44am

re: #145 lawhawk

BTW, I've used the convention of nearly 3,000 killed in the attacks. While the number has fluctuated over the years, the sad fact is that there have been hundreds of first responders who have died of injuries and illnesses sustained as a result of working at Ground Zero in the days and weeks after the collapses. The Zadroga Act is meant to compensate those suffering from 9/11 related ailments, and the list of illnesses covered has been expanded to cover various forms of cancers, which is a mixed bag since it could mean that more people are covered, but each would get less compensation (spreading the limited compensation funds over a greater number of people).

Yet, it's the least that the nation can do to address the health woes of those affected by the 9/11-related ailments.

I lay this directly at the feet of Christie Todd Whitman, who as EPA chief prematurely declared the air at Ground Zero safe. Had that decision not been made, the need for Zadroga would be much smaller.

159 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 7:30:48am

re: #154 ReamWorks SKG

While I hate to waste more typing on this, to think that anyone believes there's some master phone list where we can call every Jew and tell them 1) to stay home from work and 2) to keep their mouth shut about it is mind-boggling! Maybe the Mormons or the Scientology or the Catholics have complete dossiers on all their members, but there's no central authority or organization in Judaism other than G-d. That's the point of it.

If such a system existed, it would have been overwhelmed with solicitation junk mail by now.

160 lawhawk  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 7:30:51am

Time lapse of the construction at 1WTC

161 makeitstop  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 7:32:43am

re: #154 ReamWorks SKG

While I hate to waste more typing on this, to think that anyone believes there's some master phone list where we can call every Jew and tell them 1) to stay home from work and 2) to keep their mouth shut about it is mind-boggling! Maybe the Mormons or the Scientology or the Catholics have complete dossiers on all their members, but there's no central authority or organization in Judaism other than G-d. That's the point of it.

That always amazes me about conspiracy theories. To buy in, you gotta believe in a level of discipline that is super-human.

I say if you put 10 people together, at least two of them are gonna be blabby.

162 lawhawk  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 7:35:35am

re: #158 makeitstop

Whitman definitely deserves scorn for her comments, but add to that the problem is that far too many of the first responders and those who worked on the Pile and at Fresh Kills didn't bother with proper air purification systems/filters/masks.

You see photos and videos from days and weeks after - and after warnings about the air quality - people working on the site without proper masks.

Add to that the fact that those affected by Ground Zero dust was anyone living downwind of the smouldering remains of the towers that burned for weeks on end. That includes much of Brooklyn, Staten Island, Manhattan, and parts of New Jersey, depending on which way the wind blew.

163 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 7:35:44am

If the anti-Semites believe we have these super powers, why are they still talking trash about us?

164 Interesting Times  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 7:36:24am

Speaking of Zadroga...

Notice, Romney wrote, "America will never stop caring for the loved ones they left behind" ... hmm ... that's BS because Mitt Romney should know, due to vetting, that his running mate, Paul Ryan (R) voted against the 9/11 First Responder Healthcare Bill three times in 2010 ... THREE TIMES!!!

165 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 7:36:35am

re: #9 b_sharp

I stood there, in front of the TV looking at a scene where there was supposed to be two towers. I thought of the people in the missing tower and felt horrendous shock. Then the second tower started crumbling and it took me a minute to realize I was repeating the word 'NO' over and over.

All those people. At the time, it was reported there were likely tens of thousands of people in the buildings when the went down. I don't think my mind could accept those numbers because all of my thoughts consisted of single words.

I can't imagine how the people who witnessed it first hand felt. I don't really want to know.

I spent much of the day in transit and did not see any TV footage until around 5:00pm. In a throwback moment, I'd first seen pictures of the attacks an hour earlier in a special supplement rushed out by the Chicago Tribune.

166 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 7:37:09am

re: #150 Shiplord Kirel

At one time, you could count on the gun culture to at least respect the law: "Support you local police" bumper-stickers, "law and order" politics etc.
Now, after years of conspiracist indoctrination and NRA incitement, the opposite is true.

I think we are likely to see some serious violence from the far right when Obama is re-elected. Their oft-stated positions, attributing every form of crime and tyranny to the current administration, justify it on their face.
There won't be any kind of mass uprising, most wingnuts have too much to lose for that. There will be a lot of lone wolf attacks, though, by people who buy the tea party/Alex Jones shtick but live on the fringes of society.
There may also be some confrontations between the feds and a few back of beyond local officials who accept various conspiracy claims and, especially, the Posse Comitatus (racist gang, not the law) meme that there is no legitimate authority above the county level.

The main people who "catch it" when this happens are going to be local law (county, town) and to a degree state troopers.

167 AK-47%  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 7:38:00am

re: #150 Shiplord Kirel

Do not forget the central image of the Tea party: armed uprising against a tyrannical, usurpatious government.

Which is odd, since the last time i checked, our government was freely and fairly elected, and hence, any violence directed against it is a treasonous act against the American people.

But these guys insist that they are some kind of patriots...

168 Gus  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 7:42:19am

Is that true? The NYT put up a piece by some truther blaming Bush for 911?

169 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 7:42:59am

re: #147 Decatur Deb

Yup--now that I've read it, Fleischer is misrepresenting the article. It is blamefull, but agrees that Bush did not know when and where.

I'm willing to cut Fleischer slack on that. George W. Bush has been wrongly attacked on the point of 9/11 so much that I give his defends a pass if they are trigger-happy.

170 A Mom Anon  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 7:44:23am

re: #168 Gus

no.

171 makeitstop  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 7:44:27am

re: #162 lawhawk

Whitman definitely deserves scorn for her comments, but add to that the problem is that far too many of the first responders and those who worked on the Pile and at Fresh Kills didn't bother with proper air purification systems/filters/masks.

You see photos and videos from days and weeks after - and after warnings about the air quality - people working on the site without proper masks.

Add to that the fact that those affected by Ground Zero dust was anyone living downwind of the smouldering remains of the towers that burned for weeks on end. That includes much of Brooklyn, Staten Island, Manhattan, and parts of New Jersey, depending on which way the wind blew.

All true.

I posted upthread that I started smelling that cloud the afternoon of 9/11, 40 miles out on Long Island, and it persisted for days. My wife and I made a point to go into the city and have dinner in the months after to try and help keep the economy afloat, and the smell was still prevalent months after the event.

I can only imagine being right there and breathing that toxic dust up close.

172 lawhawk  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 7:44:29am

re: #43 Gus

He was rightfully declared Victim Number One in the official logs on 9/11. He was killed by debris falling while ministering to those who had already succumbed to injuries during the attacks and their aftermath.

More about Father Judge.

173 Interesting Times  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 7:45:06am

re: #168 Gus

Is that true? The NYT put up a piece by some truther blaming Bush for 911?

No. That's the wingnut spin. Here's the piece in question.

But some in the administration considered the warning to be just bluster. An intelligence official and a member of the Bush administration both told me in interviews that the neoconservative leaders who had recently assumed power at the Pentagon were warning the White House that the C.I.A. had been fooled; according to this theory, Bin Laden was merely pretending to be planning an attack to distract the administration from Saddam Hussein, whom the neoconservatives saw as a greater threat. Intelligence officials, these sources said, protested that the idea of Bin Laden, an Islamic fundamentalist, conspiring with Mr. Hussein, an Iraqi secularist, was ridiculous, but the neoconservatives' suspicions were nevertheless carrying the day.

In response, the C.I.A. prepared an analysis that all but pleaded with the White House to accept that the danger from Bin Laden was real.
...
Could the 9/11 attack have been stopped, had the Bush team reacted with urgency to the warnings contained in all of those daily briefs? We can't ever know. And that may be the most agonizing reality of all.

174 Gus  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 7:46:26am

re: #173 Interesting Times

No. That's the wingnut spin. Here's the piece in question.

Ari's not the sharpest tool in the shed.

175 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 7:46:34am

re: #168 Gus

Is that true? The NYT put up a piece by some truther blaming Bush for 911?

NYT wrote an op-ed blaming Bush for not acting on certain intel because nobody believed in the magnitude of the threat, but nothing near the level of Troofy LIHOP or MIHOP that the wingnuts are screeching about.

176 Lidane  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 7:48:43am

I was at home the morning of 9/11 since I didn't have to be at work until later in the day. I remember my best friend calling me on the phone, absolutely hysterical and telling me to turn on the news. I've known her now for over 20 years. To this day, that was the most panicked I've ever heard her, but it made sense why.

At the time, her husband was in the Air Force. He was stationed at Langley in Virginia and some of his work would take him to the Pentagon. She was speeding over to pick up her kids and get them out of school before the base went into total lockdown. On top of that, she had no way of getting in touch with her husband at all and there was no telling where he was or what part of the Pentagon had gotten hit.

I remember being stunned by what I was seeing on TV and worried for my friend. By the next day, it had settled into a dull shock that just wouldn't leave for a while.

177 makeitstop  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 7:49:28am

re: #168 Gus

Is that true? The NYT put up a piece by some truther blaming Bush for 911?

Nope. Someone who has seen declassified docs in the weeks before the August 6 memo, saying that the threat was taken nowhere near as seriously as it should have been.

The op-ed actually says that the CIA was so frustrated by the lack of attention being paid to the threat that the entire team considered asking for re-assignment in protest. They didn't do it because there would have been no time to train a new team.

178 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 7:50:05am

re: #175 Learned Mother of Zion

NYT wrote an op-ed blaming Bush for not acting on certain intel because nobody believed in the magnitude of the threat, but nothing near the level of Troofy LIHOP or MIHOP that the wingnuts are screeching about.

Nobody could even think that flying planes into buildings on purpose could be possible or even conceived. The world was shocked that day (except for the celebrations going on in Jerusalem).

179 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 7:50:28am

re: #150 Shiplord Kirel

At one time, you could count on the gun culture to at least respect the law: "Support you local police" bumper-stickers, "law and order" politics etc.
Now, after years of conspiracist indoctrination and NRA incitement, the opposite is true.

I think we are likely to see some serious violence from the far right when Obama is re-elected. Their oft-stated positions, attributing every form of crime and tyranny to the current administration, justify it on their face.
There won't be any kind of mass uprising, most wingnuts have too much to lose for that. There will be a lot of lone wolf attacks, though, by people who buy the tea party/Alex Jones shtick but live on the fringes of society.
There may also be some confrontations between the feds and a few back of beyond local officials who accept various conspiracy claims and, especially, the Posse Comitatus (racist gang, not the law) meme that there is no legitimate authority above the county level.

The NRA has actually been trying hard for over a year to honor police and law enforcement and tamp down the worst-craziness. Granted they aren't innocent, but at least they've realized that some people are taking things way too far and putting in counter measures.

As for the "Posse Comitatus/Sovereign Citizen crowd" I'd really like to know how they think a citizen posse would have fared against a team of heavily armed bank robbers like the Dillinger Gang. More than one county sheriff found himself unable to respond to a bank robbery by "Public Enemy #1" as Dillinger's gang outgunned the sheriff and his deputies.

180 makeitstop  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 7:51:44am

re: #178 NJDhockeyfan

Nobody could even think that flying planes into buildings on purposed could be possible or even conceived.

The method of attack was not mentioned. Just that the threat was real, and widely minimized by neocons.

181 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 7:52:24am

re: #178 NJDhockeyfan

Nobody could even think that flying planes into buildings on purposed could be possible or even conceived. The world was shocked that day (except for the celebrations going on in Jerusalem).

And in Gaza, don't forget about Gaza.

182 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 7:53:09am

re: #181 Dark_Falcon

And in Gaza, don't forget about Gaza.

183 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 7:54:37am
184 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 7:54:48am
185 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 7:55:14am

re: #181 Dark_Falcon

And in Gaza, don't forget about Gaza.

And don't forget about those 5 Israelis dancing on the roof of a building! They were filmed, but the video was confiscated!

186 Obdicut  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 7:57:15am

re: #178 NJDhockeyfan

Nobody could even think that flying planes into buildings on purpose could be possible or even conceived.

Er, yes they could.

The Joint Inquiry of 2002 confirmed that the Intelligence Community had received at least twelve reports over a seven-year period suggesting that terrorists might use planes as weapons. After briefly discussing each of them, it says that "The CIA disseminated several of these reports to the FBI and to agencies responsible for preventive actions. They included the FAA... Despite these reports, the Intelligence Community did not produce any assessments of the likelihood that terrorists would use planes as weapons, and U.S. policymakers apparently remained unaware of this kind of potential threat." Former National Security Advisor Sandy Berger testified to the Joint Inquiry:

"We heard of the idea of planes as weapons, but I don't recall being presented with any specific threat information about an attack of this nature, or highlighting this threat, or indicating it was more likely than any other"

187 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 7:57:20am

Thread derail in progress.

188 Gus  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 7:57:48am

Hmmm.

189 Mocking Jay  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 7:58:45am
190 darthstar  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 7:59:00am
191 makeitstop  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 7:59:39am

re: #187 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Thread derail in progress.

It was so nice, he posted it twice!
/

192 ReamWorks SKG  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:00:55am

And if the Jews had super-powers, this would have been a Magen David:

Image: cross.jpg

(I have to say, I find this Cross offensive, but I have bigger fish to fry.)

193 darthstar  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:01:45am

Okay...shower time. Good luck.

194 ReamWorks SKG  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:02:15am

re: #189 Mocking Jay

Most likely he didn't license the material he used.

195 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:02:28am

My FB won't work. My radio said this morning that the amount of pics post would be huge. Wonder if that's the problem.

196 Gus  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:03:58am

Bush derangement. Gaza derangement. Obama derangement...

It's National Derangement Day!

197 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:06:12am

re: #189 Mocking Jay

This is disgusting.

The Most Anti-Gay Piece Of Political Mail This Year

I hope that Mr. Stocker gets the backhand from primary voters and this "save our children from the lavender menace!!1" shit fails as miserably as possible.

198 Obdicut  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:07:41am

re: #197 Dark_Falcon

I hope that Mr. Stocker gets the backhand from primary voters and this "save our children from the lavender menace!!1" shit fails as miserably as possible.

Something that would help that happen is the GOP condemning anti-gay rhetoric, instead of using it, supporting it, and depending on it to get votes.

199 Gus  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:09:36am
200 Lidane  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:10:19am

re: #198 Obdicut

Something that would help that happen is the GOP condemning anti-gay rhetoric, instead of using it, supporting it, and depending on it to get votes.

Exactly.

Still, we all know it won't happen. The GOP will just turn a blind eye to this sort of rhetoric as it tends to do.

201 Decatur Deb  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:12:07am

re: #199 Gus

[Embedded content]

Facts/reality/logic have a well-known leftwing bias.

202 Gus  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:14:34am

re: #201 Decatur Deb

Facts/reality/logic have a well-known leftwing bias.

CNN... "journalist"...

[Audience laughs]

203 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:16:47am

re: #197 Dark_Falcon

I hope that Mr. Stocker gets the backhand from primary voters and this "save our children from the lavender menace!!1" shit fails as miserably as possible.

Note: Please don't use the phrase "lavender menace" to mock homophobia too often. If it gains wide usage it'll be made into a "SyFy Movie".

/I wish I was kidding.

204 lawhawk  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:17:07am

re: #171 makeitstop

I would smell it when I would commute to the Village from Staten Island. Even now, if I come across a work site where they're doing welding or demo work, the smells (particularly that metallic welding smell for lack of a better description) can sometimes remind me of those days and weeks after the attacks when the smell was pervasive across Lower Manhattan. It's a visceral thing - and it hasn't subsided with time either.

205 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:17:48am

re: #200 Lidane

Exactly.

Still, we all know it won't happen. The GOP will just turn a blind eye to this sort of rhetoric as it tends to do.

Except that in this case the rhetoric is being aimed at a party officeholder as part of a primary challenge.

206 Gus  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:18:02am

This day always brings out the weirdos.

207 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:20:55am

The only national general news program to not carry the moment of silence was NBC’s ‘Today,” which, in an odd bit of counter-programming, opted to air an interview with “Keeping Up With the Kardashians” star Kris Jenner, who talked about the new season of the reality show, and her breast implants.
[Link: www.mediabistro.com...]
I know very little about this site. Reputable? If so, how sad.

208 Gus  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:22:04am

re: #207 Cannadian Club Akbar

The only national general news program to not carry the moment of silence was NBC’s ‘Today,” which, in an odd bit of counter-programming, opted to air an interview with “Keeping Up With the Kardashians” star Kris Jenner, who talked about the new season of the reality show, and her breast implants.
[Link: www.mediabistro.com...]
I know very little about this site. Reputable? If so, how sad.

10 hours ago...

209 ReamWorks SKG  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:24:32am

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

I can't believe those are implants! I thought they were real. Next you'll tell me that Jenner has had plastic surgery!

210 Lidane  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:25:20am

re: #205 Dark_Falcon

Except that in this case the rhetoric is being aimed at a party officeholder as part of a primary challenge.

And it won't raise a peep except to say that a different image might have been used. The rhetoric isn't the problem for the GOP. They have no issue at all with people who call LGBT people deviants that are destroying America. Why would this be any different?

211 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:25:36am

re: #207 Cannadian Club Akbar

From the comment section:
Time to move on. Chilean president Salvador Allende was murdered by the CIA on September 11, 1973, did you remember him today?

212 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:26:28am

Soon you will be able to print your own guns. What could possibly go wrong?

You don't bring a 3D printer to a gun fight -- yet

Welcome to the dark side of 3D printing.

The hobby is best known for creating colorful toys and trinkets, but some enthusiasts are working on design files that would allow anyone to print a working gun. These don't exist yet, but some believe it's only a matter of time.

Why would a 3D-printed gun be appealing? For one, it could potentially be cheap. You can buy a preassembled 3D printer for about $500. A spool of ABS plastic to print with goes for $50. Depending on where you shop, you can buy .38 Special ammunition for 30 cents a round. The plans will undoubted be distributed free like so many MP3s.

In fact, plans for working gun parts already exist. They can be found on a site called Thingiverse and on similar sites, alongside thousands of free plans for toys, jewelry, tools, and design equipment.

213 bratwurst  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:26:35am

Anyone care to wager on how long it is going to take for someone to come here to complain that Google's home page observance isn't significant enough for 9/11?

214 ReamWorks SKG  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:26:46am

Ok! It's off to the office! Again, someone here needs to make money and pay taxes so the rest of America can sit around and complain!

215 Gus  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:27:10am

re: #211 Cannadian Club Akbar

From the comment section:
Time to move on. Chilean president Salvador Allende was murdered by the CIA on September 11, 1973, did you remember him today?

Turns out the CIA did not have anything to do with that.

216 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:28:43am

re: #215 Gus

Turns out the CIA did not have anything to do with that.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
Anytime people bring up the "CIA KILLED..." I generally snicker.

217 Gus  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:28:54am

Bring out your grievances!

218 Lidane  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:29:03am

re: #211 Cannadian Club Akbar

From the comment section:
Time to move on. Chilean president Salvador Allende was murdered by the CIA on September 11, 1973, did you remember him today?

Herp Derp.

219 Gus  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:29:50am

re: #216 Cannadian Club Akbar

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
Anytime people bring up the "CIA KILLED..." I generally snicker.

Interesting in that a certain segment of our society I'm hearing and reading more about the CIA, Bush, Cheney, etc., and nothing about the people that actually carried these attacks out.

220 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:30:13am

re: #213 bratwurst

Anyone care to wager on how long it is going to take for someone to come here to complain that Google's home page observance isn't significant enough for 9/11?

There is nothing on Google at all!

Oh wait, my Google default for some reason is set to google.ca. Grumble grumble.

Yeah, totally almost missed it.//

221 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:30:42am

re: #217 Gus

Bring out your grievances!

Ah, so it's time for the airing of grievances then? I thought Festivus was later in the year./

222 Gus  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:31:18am

re: #220 Learned Mother of Zion

There is nothing on Google at all!

Oh wait, my Google default for some reason is set to google.ca. Grumble grumble.

Yeah, totally almost missed it.//

Image: ribbon-black_68.png

223 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:31:27am

re: #211 Cannadian Club Akbar

From the comment section:
Time to move on. Chilean president Salvador Allende was murdered by the CIA on September 11, 1973, did you remember him today?

Here's another:

Fred Davidson
If they had not stayed with the interview then nobody would have been able to be “Keeping Up With the Kardashians” and life as you know it would be doomed forever.

Heh.

224 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:32:05am

re: #199 Gus

[Embedded content]

Heh. Partisan liars hate facts.

225 Decatur Deb  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:32:23am

re: #221 thedopefishlives

Ah, so it's time for the airing of grievances then? I thought Festivus was later in the year./

We observe by the Gregorian calendar.

226 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:32:27am

re: #222 Gus

Image: ribbon-black_68.png

I finally did see it, but it is not on the google.ca page which my browser defaults to even though I am not in Canada.

227 iossarian  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:34:30am

re: #215 Gus

Turns out the CIA did not have anything to do with that.

To be fair, I think the official position is: we didn't kill him, but if the Chilean military hadn't been going to do it, we would have done.

228 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:36:00am

re: #227 iossarian

To be fair, I think the official position is: we didn't kill him, but if the Chilean military hadn't been going to do it, we would have done.

Woulda, shoulda, coulda, didn't.

229 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:36:09am

re: #213 bratwurst

Anyone care to wager on how long it is going to take for someone to come here to complain that Google's home page observance isn't significant enough for 9/11?

It's enough. It should be on the Canadian page as well, but it's enough.

230 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:37:38am

re: #227 iossarian

To be fair, I think the official position is: we didn't kill him, but if the Chilean military hadn't been going to do it, we would have done.

Even so, intent is not action. The CIA did not take part in the coup the killed Allende, and thus cannot be considered to have killed him.

231 Gus  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:37:43am

re: #224 Killgore Trout

Heh. Partisan liars hate facts.

I can see not liking these fact checker sites. But banning someone over it? Besides that the fact checker sites will check either party. That being Politifact and Factchecker.

232 iossarian  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:37:47am

re: #228 thedopefishlives

Woulda, shoulda, coulda, didn't.

Wikipedia:

After General Pinochet assumed power, United States Secretary of State Henry Kissinger told President Richard Nixon that the U.S. "didn't do it," but "we helped them...created the conditions as great as possible." (referring to the coup itself).

I'll let people draw their own conclusions. No desire to browbeat anyone on my part.

233 iossarian  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:38:45am

re: #230 Dark_Falcon

Even so, intent is not action. The CIA did not take part in the coup the killed Allende, and thus cannot be considered to have killed him.

I'm sure you apply that kind of fair-minded avoidance of blame to left and right-wing acts of violence alike.

234 Decatur Deb  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:38:56am

re: #230 Dark_Falcon

Even so, intent is not action. The CIA did not take part in the coup the killed Allende, and thus cannot be considered to have killed him.

CIA motto: "One never know, do one?"

235 William of Orange  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:39:27am

Confirmed.

Of all the days you could have an accident like this. This morning in The Hague in the Netherlands, two streetcars collided. There were 36 people wounded but thankfully no one was hurt. The streetcar lines? They were 9 and 11....

Coincidence of course.

236 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:39:33am

I start making fun of NBC and the Kardashians, and look what it's turned in to!!
///

237 iossarian  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:39:40am

re: #234 Decatur Deb

CIA motto: "One never know, do one?"

"I had no idea the bomb would go off at exactly the moment the motorcade drove past! Therefore I am innocent."

238 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:39:53am

re: #233 iossarian

I'm sure you apply that kind of fair-minded avoidance of blame to left and right-wing acts of violence alike.

I try to do so.

239 iossarian  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:40:17am

re: #236 Cannadian Club Akbar

I start making fun of NBC and the Kardashians, and look what it's turned in to!!
///

Hey, the NBC thing is fair game. Just pointing out that the "CIA had nothing to do with Allende's assassination" claim is not quite as straightforward as that.

240 Gus  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:40:21am

I love the small of confirmation bias in the morning.

241 Lidane  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:41:27am
242 Eventual Carrion  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:41:28am

re: #178 NJDhockeyfan

Nobody could even think that flying planes into buildings on purpose could be possible or even conceived. The world was shocked that day (except for the celebrations going on in Jerusalem).

Except for a fiction book published a few years before that used exactly that in its plot line. Don't remember the book right off (and am not going to google search for it right now).

243 Gus  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:41:40am

Allende was a dictator himself.

244 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:42:41am

re: #242 RayFerd

Except for a fiction book published a few years before that used exactly that in its plot line. Don't remember the book right off (and am not going to google search for it right now).

THE FINAL JIHAD. Name of the author was John Keating or Martin Keating, brother to the Keating who was governor of OK at the time of the McVeigh attack.

245 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:43:05am

re: #242 RayFerd

Except for a fiction book published a few years before that used exactly that in its plot line. Don't remember the book right off (and am not going to google search for it right now).

1994. Clancy's _Debt of Honor_.

246 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:43:31am

Also the movie EXECUTIVE DECISION which starred Kurt Russell and Halle Berry.

247 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:43:37am

re: #242 RayFerd

Except for a fiction book published a few years before that used exactly that in its plot line. Don't remember the book right off (and am not going to google search for it right now).

IIRC, either Brad Thor or Vince Flynn (or both) write reality/fiction style stuff. Not sure how long either has been at it.

248 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:43:46am

re: #242 RayFerd

Except for a fiction book published a few years before that used exactly that in its plot line. Don't remember the book right off (and am not going to google search for it right now).

Debt of Honor by Tom Clancy. It featured a Japanese pilot flying an airliner into the Capitol Building and killing most of Congress, as well as the President.

249 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:44:58am

re: #248 Dark_Falcon

Debt of Honor by Tom Clancy. It featured a Japanese pilot flying an airliner into the Capitol Building and killing most of Congress, as well as the President.

THE FINAL JIHAD contains a bunch of terrorist scenarios, including crashing an airliner into Disneyland.

250 iossarian  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:45:09am

re: #243 Gus

Allende was a dictator himself.

Like I said - no desire to browbeat here. Bad people abound on all sides of the political spectrum. Sometimes the bad guy is our bad guy (and therefore a good guy). Sometimes he's their bad guy (and therefore a bad guy).

Sometimes it depends on the time of year, e.g., Hussein (Saddam).

The CIA planned to help the Chilean military assassinate Allende. I think that's fairly straightforwardly supported by the historical archive that is available on the subject. It's probably true that they found they didn't need to do much to make this happen, but it's also a bit difficult to say they had "nothing to do with it". Apart from anything else, the Junta would have known they had friends in the US to help gloss over any post-coup economic turmoil.

251 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:46:05am

re: #249 Learned Mother of Zion

THE FINAL JIHAD contains a bunch of terrorist scenarios, including crashing an airliner into Disneyland.

They can take out Congress but you fuck with Disney, well, that won't stand!!!
///

252 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:46:40am

re: #231 Gus

I can see not liking these fact checker sites. But banning someone over it? Besides that the fact checker sites will check either party. That being Politifact and Factchecker.

Sure it makes perfect sense to ban people for linking to fact checkers. I've come to realize that one of the cornerstones of our tribal political culture is ignorance; Not understanding the other side's point of view, not seeing their comments in context, not correctly understanding the other side's policy proposals, etc. Facts will only undermine the core of the tribalist culture.

253 lawhawk  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:47:27am

Meanwhile, the cosmos continues to spin and astronomers detected a flash hit on Jupiter, which could indicate that the largest planet in the solar system "took one for the team".

Astronomers are abuzz over sightings of a flash on Jupiter — which suggests that the giant planet has taken another bullet for the solar system team.

Today's report follows similar sightings of impacts in 2009 and 2010. As in those earlier cases, the call has gone out to look for any visible scars on Jupiter's cloud tops. That would be a sure sign that an asteroid or comet was drawn in by the planet's gravitational pull, potentially saving us from a cosmic collision threat.

"It's kind of a scary proposition to see how often Jupiter gets hit," said George Hall, an amateur astronomer from Dallas who captured the flash on video this morning.

It could indicate that Jupiter was hit by an impacting comet, asteroid, or meteor and the resulting impact was highlighted by a flash. It may take another few days to confirm what appears to have happened, along with the size of the impact feature.

Jupiter's size means that it tends to scoop up other celestial bodies within its gravitational field, limiting those that might otherwise affect the Earth down the line.

254 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:47:39am

re: #246 Learned Mother of Zion

Also the movie EXECUTIVE DECISION which starred Kurt Russell and Halle Berry.

Except that in that movie the attack was thwarted. The planned attack had the airliner blowing up over Washington DC and dispersing a fictional nerve agent called DZ-5.

The movie did have a decent supporting cast too, in particular allowing John Leguizamo to be funny but still serious as a Delta Force trooper.

255 Gus  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:48:25am

How the Post 9/11 Fever Led Our National Security Complex Beyond Accountability for its Crimes!!

256 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:48:58am

re: #254 Dark_Falcon

Except that in that movie the attack was thwarted. The planned attack had the airliner blowing up over Washington DC and dispersing a fictional nerve agent called DZ-5.

The movie did have a decent supporting cast too, in particular allowing John Leguizamo to be funny but still serious as a Delta Force trooper.

Well yeah, it would have totally been a downer in the movie if the heros didn't thwart the attack.

257 Gus  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:49:09am

Oh boy. Might have to take a break from the internets today. It's getting warmed up and lots of the usual freak outs are starting.

258 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:50:09am

re: #251 Cannadian Club Akbar

They can take out Congress but you fuck with Disney, well, that won't stand!!!
///

Far more rage would be generated by an attack on Disneyland, than an attack on the Capitol. Far more children would be killed, and it is unquestionably not a military target. Some sick people in America would actually cheer the destruction of the Capitol.

259 Gus  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:50:16am

Bush, Bush, Bush, Bush, Bush, Bush, Bush, Bush, Bush, Bush, Bush.

260 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:50:37am

re: #259 Gus

Bush, Bush, Bush, Bush, Bush, Bush, Bush, Bush, Bush, Bush, Bush.

Somewhere out there, a bunch of moonbats had their heads asplode.

261 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:51:13am

re: #256 Learned Mother of Zion

Sorry, Alouette. I was just being detail-oriented, as is my wont.

262 Gus  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:51:26am

re: #260 thedopefishlives

Somewhere out there, a bunch of moonbats had their heads asplode.

No one on my TL is talking about the hijackers.

263 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:52:46am

re: #262 Gus

No one on my TL is talking about the hijackers.

Hijackers? If the hijackers name were "Remote Control" maybe!!!

264 Mocking Jay  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:53:43am
265 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:53:48am

re: #262 Gus

No one on my TL is talking about the hijackers.

Sigh. Everything that has come out since 9/11 supports the theory that the government, as a collective, was simply too incompetent to aggregate all the data together in time to stop the attacks. But someone publishes ONE PIECE that says "Bush could've known if we tried harder" and that's all anybody can talk about.

266 Decatur Deb  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:55:07am

re: #246 Learned Mother of Zion

Also the movie EXECUTIVE DECISION which starred Kurt Russell and Halle Berry.

There was a real-life precedent. Some years before 9/11, an airliner went into the mid-Atlantic. The FAA investigation, a year or so later, stated the probable cause was the deliberate act of the Egyptian co-pilot. The report caused a howl from the Egyptian government. Forget the details.

267 Someone Please Beam Me Up!  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:55:27am

re: #243 Gus

Allende was a dictator himself.

He was elected to the office he held. His response to the constitutional crisis was to suggest a plebiscite. The other side responded with a coup.

All during his time in office, his opponents filled the air with nasty words about what he was doing, but fact-checking is in order before you pass them on. (The opponents of the current president are saying all sorts of vicious and slanderous things about him, perhaps you'd noticed?)

268 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:55:31am

re: #265 thedopefishlives

Sigh. Everything that has come out since 9/11 supports the theory that the government, as a collective, was simply too incompetent to aggregate all the data together in time to stop the attacks. But someone publishes ONE PIECE that says "Bush could've known if we tried harder" and that's all anybody can talk about.

ISTR hearing that Clinton could have taken out Bin Laden after the first WTC attack, but chose not to.

269 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:56:39am

re: #266 Decatur Deb

There was a real-life precedent. Some years before 9/11, an airliner went into the mid-Atlantic. The FAA investigation, a year or so later, stated the probable cause was the deliberate act of the Egyptian co-pilot. The report caused a howl from the Egyptian government. Forget the details.

A friend of mine was on that flight. EgyptAir990. The pilot was depressed and owed gambling debts.

270 Gus  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:56:48am

re: #267 Someone Please Beam Me Up!

He was elected to the office he held. His response to the constitutional crisis was to suggest a plebiscite. The other side responded with a coup.

All during his time in office, his opponents filled the air with nasty words about what he was doing, but fact-checking is in order before you pass them on. (The opponents of the current president are saying all sorts of vicious and slanderous things about him, perhaps you'd noticed?)

K.G.B.

271 dragonath  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:57:30am

re: #244 Learned Mother of Zion

THE FINAL JIHAD.

That reminds me of something I heard on NPR the other day. Some dopey analyst said that Obama "unleashed a regulatory Jihad" on business. At the time I thought it was pretty unfortunate to use such a loaded term to refer to environmental issues, but now that I think about it, the timing was probably intentional.

272 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:58:14am

EgyptAir went down in 1999, the movie Executive Decision was made in 1996.

274 lawhawk  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:58:57am

re: #266 Decatur Deb

Egypt Air Flt 990.

There's also the TWA flight 800, which crashed off Long Island in 1996, where some eyewitnesses claimed to have seen a surface to air missile hit the plane, but the official report indicates that the eyewitnesses were mistaken - they confused seeing falling flaming wreckage for a missile after fumes in the fuel tank exploded due to a short circuit.

Add to that the AA Flight 587, which crashed in November 2001 in the Rockaways, killing 265, including several who survived 9/11. That crash was attributed to pilot error in overcorrecting the rudder due to wake turbulence from the plane ahead, though there had been concerns that it was a terrorist attack due to the timing after the 9/11 attacks.

275 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:59:38am

re: #274 lawhawk

Egypt Air Flt 990.

There's also the TWA flight 800, which crashed off Long Island, where some eyewitnesses claimed to have seen a surface to air missile hit the plane, but the official report indicates that the eyewitnesses were mistaken - they confused seeing falling flaming wreckage for a missile after fumes in the fuel tank exploded due to a short circuit.

B-b-but eyewitnesses can't be mistaken! Except when they are, but that's beside the point!

276 Gus  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:59:48am

re: #268 Learned Mother of Zion

ISTR hearing that Clinton could have taken out Bin Laden after the first WTC attack, but chose not to.

Yep. That's the wingnut counter argument. "Clinton could have prevented this!!" Myself, I like to sit right in the middle.

277 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 8:59:49am

re: #274 lawhawk

Peter whatshisface, from CNN beat that drum. (I think)

278 Someone Please Beam Me Up!  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 9:00:02am

re: #265 thedopefishlives

Sigh. Everything that has come out since 9/11 supports the theory that the government, as a collective, was simply too incompetent to aggregate all the data together in time to stop the attacks. But someone publishes ONE PIECE that says "Bush could've known if we tried harder" and that's all anybody can talk about.

Even had all of the information been aggregated, there's no guarantee that it would have been enough to stop one (or any) specific threat. Hindsight makes everything look easy.

279 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 9:00:53am

re: #278 Someone Please Beam Me Up!

Even had all of the information been aggregated, there's no guarantee that it would have been enough to stop one (or any) specific threat. Hindsight makes everything look easy.

Precisely so. The stopping power of the data is only as good as the foresight of the one reading it.

280 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 9:01:38am

re: #277 Cannadian Club Akbar

Peter whatshisface, from CNN beat that drum. (I think)

Pierre Salinger

281 Decatur Deb  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 9:03:11am

re: #274 lawhawk

Egypt Air Flt 990.

There's also the TWA flight 800, which crashed off Long Island, where some eyewitnesses claimed to have seen a surface to air missile hit the plane, but the official report indicates that the eyewitnesses were mistaken - they confused seeing falling flaming wreckage for a missile after fumes in the fuel tank exploded due to a short circuit.

re: #277 Cannadian Club Akbar

Peter whatshisface, from CNN beat that drum. (I think)

The FBI interface to the FAA investigation did a very credible job on that one. (It took years for the airlines to make the very expensive fix on the wiring retro-fits.)

282 Gus  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 9:03:34am

Beware Small Samples

Basically on polling. Interesting in that he's using a small sample from this poll to counter argue his stance. Interesting in that yesterday's CNN polling also has a rather small sample as the PPP. Of course, he would never think of applying this logic here.

283 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 9:03:53am

re: #280 Cannadian Club Akbar

Pierre Salinger

Wow. He said if Bush wins the election, he's moving to France. AND HE DID!!!
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

284 Gus  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 9:05:20am

re: #283 Cannadian Club Akbar

Wow. He said if Bush wins the election, he's moving to France. AND HE DID!!!
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Image: 9609994_110450780460.jpg

285 Gus  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 9:09:17am

When polling numbers aren't going your way, polling doesn't matter. When polling numbers are going your way, polling matters.

//

286 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 9:09:23am

re: #178 NJDhockeyfan

Nobody could even think that flying planes into buildings on purpose could be possible or even conceived. The world was shocked that day (except for the celebrations going on in Jerusalem).

There was a warning before the G8 summit in July 2001 that bin Laden was planning to kill Bush & others there with a remote-controlled airplane filled with explosives. That constitutes "flying planes into buildings on purpose", so clearly the idea was not only conceivable but actually conceived and known.

Now, it's possible that no one (other than the supergeniuses at al Qaeda) could have conceived of doing the same thing with a hijacked passenger plane, but why the hell not?

287 Gus  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 9:10:20am

re: #284 Gus

Image: 9609994_110450780460.jpg

This is at Arlington National Cemetery.

288 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 9:13:16am

re: #242 RayFerd

Except for a fiction book published a few years before that used exactly that in its plot line. Don't remember the book right off (and am not going to google search for it right now).

Don't know about the book, but there was an episode of the Fox TV series The Lone Gunman in March 2001 in which a rogue faction of the U.S Government hijacks a passenger plane and flies it by remote control into . . . the World Trade Center.

289 Gus  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 9:15:19am

This fucking idiot.

290 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 9:17:03am

How Republicans Went Crazy, Democrats Became Useless, and the Middle Class Got Shafted

Bill Moyers: Why did you leave the party? You'd been a Republican, what, all your life?

Mike Lofgren: I left the party because it was becoming an apocalyptic cult. Because you cannot govern a country of 310 million people that is the greatest economic power on earth and the greatest military power on earth as if it's a banana republic. You can't govern it with people who think that Obama was born overseas or who believe in all manner of nonsense about climate change. They don't even know, apparently, where babies come from, if we're to believe Todd Akin.

291 celticdragon  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 9:18:17am

Coming in late to this thread:

I was working at Miami International Airport as an aviation sheet metal mechanic contractor for a heavy repair shop, and I had called in sick for the day that morning. I had a migraine and so the tv was off. Me, my wife and our one year old son were all in a squalid little motel room right across from the airport. Termites would fly out of the light fixtures at night, and the DEA came with a SWAT team to bust a major drug runner staying in the room next to ours the week before (hint: if you are hiding in a 200 dollar a week fleabag motel, having Rolls Royces and tricked out Hummers parking in the lot tends to give you away. We all noticed the cars)

After awhile, my wife and I noticed that we couldn't hear the airplanes anymore. Jet noise was constant in the room, but now it was gone. we both thought it a bit odd and my wife remarked on it. We went ahead and turned on the tv. As she switched past CNN, I saw an image of skyscapers on fire and I quickly told her to back up and look at the news. I watched as the second tower completed its' collapse as the anchor said that hijacked aircraft had been used.

I stared in shock. I could not process it. The WTC was gone...and innocent people had also been on the airplanes??

Both of us knew within minutes that it had to be Al Qaeda. AQ loved to do that big, impressive coordinated attacks like the multiple embassy attacks in Africa and the Cole bombing. We both knew that this was war...maybe even tiping the threshold to using a tactical nuke. I also knew privately that nothing would ever be quite the same again, although I did not know just how pervasive the results of that day would become in everyday life.

The next day was my last day working on aircraft for more then a year. Every contract was being voided and every aircraft owned by the major airlines that was coming up for major maintenance was going to be sent to New Mexico to sit in the desert when the flight ban was lifted. We all knew the airlines where going to take a tremendous hit in profits and so there was no sense in them trying to spend money on maintaining birds that were not going to have many passengers anyway. Many of my coworkers were Central or South Americans. They were good guys and I liked most of them. They were angry and shocked as well. One told me: "You Americans are so fucking stupid! Why do you trust those damned Saudis? They aren't your friends! We are your friends, and you need to listen to us more!"

I had no answer for him. I still don't.

The day after that, we drove back to Georgia through the rain bands of a tropical storm, listening to the radio. When we reached Jacksonville, the only thing in the air were F-15's of the Air National Guard.

Once we reached home, we immediately had to pack and move. I had no job and we could not pay the rent. Nobody would hire again in aviation for a year, and I was far from the only aircraft mechanic looking for something...anything to do. We ended staying with family in increasingly uncomfortable arrangements until contracting started again. I drove trucks for awhile, but lost more money then I was making. We were just this side of actually being homeless. I laughed when I read some professor who said that 9/11 would only have about as much affect on most Americans as the anarchist bombings in New York back around WW I. It sure as hell did a number on my family, and that was without even being anywhere near Ground Zero.

292 AK-47%  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 9:21:02am

re: #278 Someone Please Beam Me Up!

Even had all of the information been aggregated, there's no guarantee that it would have been enough to stop one (or any) specific threat. Hindsight makes everything look easy.

Agree. I think the only "conspiracy" the government might have engaged in was to cover up the extent of its incompetence, not any complicity.

293 celticdragon  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 9:23:20am

re: #274 lawhawk

Egypt Air Flt 990.

There's also the TWA flight 800, which crashed off Long Island in 1996, where some eyewitnesses claimed to have seen a surface to air missile hit the plane, but the official report indicates that the eyewitnesses were mistaken - they confused seeing falling flaming wreckage for a missile after fumes in the fuel tank exploded due to a short circuit.

Add to that the AA Flight 587, which crashed in November 2001 in the Rockaways, killing 265, including several who survived 9/11. That crash was attributed to pilot error in overcorrecting the rudder due to wake turbulence from the plane ahead, though there had been concerns that it was a terrorist attack due to the timing after the 9/11 attacks.

I disagree. The vertical stabilizer had a repair patch with some significant problems and the vertical stab completely failed along the repair seam and came off of the fuselage (the 6 pins that hold the stab onto the fuselage are huge. No way in hell those would fail without actual sabotage) The reports I saw pointed to structural failure that should not have happened no matter what the pilot input was.

294 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 9:27:32am

Gosh that was eleven years ago. Anyhow, it was my first full week of high school. I left my first class of the day, Math for my second which was History and the news was on TV and I saw what everyone else saw. People were obviously stunned, They let us out early that day and when I got home, my mom and grandparents were there just glued to the TV screen. It was a stunning moment. Still is 11 years later.

295 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 9:28:11am

re: #289 Gus

This fucking idiot.

[Embedded content]

[Headdesk]

296 Gus  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 9:30:42am

re: #295 Dark_Falcon

[Headdesk]

Boycott Chris Brown. :D

297 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 9:31:51am

re: #296 Gus

Boycott Chris Brown. :D

To boyott him wouldn't that mean I would have to actually bought something of his? Or actually knew who he was before he smacked around a woman?

298 HappyWarrior  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 9:32:19am

re: #297 Cannadian Club Akbar

To boyott him wouldn't that mean I would have to actually bought something of his? Or actually knew who he was before he smacked around a woman?

Ha, touche but really what a douche.

299 Gus  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 9:33:43am

re: #297 Cannadian Club Akbar

To boyott him wouldn't that mean I would have to actually bought something of his? Or actually knew who he was before he smacked around a woman?

This was my idea 10 minutes ago...

300 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 9:37:46am

BBL

301 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 9:42:29am

re: #253 lawhawk

Meanwhile, the cosmos continues to spin and astronomers detected a flash hit on Jupiter, which could indicate that the largest planet in the solar system "took one for the team".


It could indicate that Jupiter was hit by an impacting comet, asteroid, or meteor and the resulting impact was highlighted by a flash. It may take another few days to confirm what appears to have happened, along with the size of the impact feature.

Jupiter's size means that it tends to scoop up other celestial bodies within its gravitational field, limiting those that might otherwise affect the Earth down the line.

I think it was Varek indulging in random target practice.
/

302 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 9:43:12am

A video tribute to the victims of 9-11 is a Republican snuff film?

Derp.

303 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 9:43:22am

re: #254 Dark_Falcon

Except that in that movie the attack was thwarted. The planned attack had the airliner blowing up over Washington DC and dispersing a fictional nerve agent called DZ-5.

The movie did have a decent supporting cast too, in particular allowing John Leguizamo to be funny but still serious as a Delta Force trooper.

The biggest cheer in the theatre when I saw it was Stegal getting sucked out of the plane.

304 Gus  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 9:43:44am

re: #302 NJDhockeyfan

[Embedded content]

A video tribute to the victims of 9-11 is a Republican snuff film?

Derp.

He's weird.

305 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 9:45:42am

re: #302 NJDhockeyfan

[Embedded content]

A video tribute to the victims of 9-11 is a Republican snuff film?

Derp.

I thought the definition of a "snuff" film is that you actually have to view an individual person pass away on the screen. Watching planes crash or buildings fall down is not at that "up close and personal" level, even if you know there are people inside.

306 Gus  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 9:47:48am

BTW. That piece in the NY Times is an opinion piece and not news.

307 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 9:48:46am

re: #305 Learned Mother of Zion

if it contained video of people jumping from the building then it's borderline snuff/faces of death territory.

308 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 9:49:31am

re: #305 Learned Mother of Zion

I thought the definition of a "snuff" film is that you actually have to view an individual person pass away on the screen. Watching planes crash or buildings fall down is not at that "up close and personal" level, even if you know there are people inside.

Furthermore, the purpose of a snuff film is to titillate you and allow you to get amusement.

Nobody's watching these films for amusement, any more than we watch holocaust movies or film reels for amusement.

309 Gus  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 9:49:33am

Now they're angry about "MSNBC showing the 9/11 attacks in real time." Oh brother. People have their freak on about anything and everything today.

310 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 9:49:55am

re: #304 Gus

He's weird.

He is blaming the Bush Administration for 9-11 too. What an ass.

311 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 9:50:00am

re: #307 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

if it contained video of people jumping from the building then it's borderline snuff/faces of death territory.

Only if it shows them hit the ground. Close up. Because you can always imagine that they landed on a bunch of pillows or a trampoline or something.//

312 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 9:50:43am
313 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 9:50:52am

re: #311 Learned Mother of Zion

Only if it shows them hit the ground. Close up. Because you can always imagine that they landed on a bunch of pillows or a trampoline or something.//

A truck hauling marshmallows?
/

314 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 9:51:11am

re: #310 NJDhockeyfan

Blame them? No, but they are guilty of negligence.

315 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 9:51:29am

re: #313 Cannadian Club Akbar

A truck hauling marshmallows?
/

Garbage, even.//

316 Gus  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 9:52:05am

re: #310 NJDhockeyfan

He is blaming the Bush Administration for 9-11 too. What an ass.

[Embedded content]

Fuck that. I've been seeing that all morning. Dick Cheney didn't help with that stupid comment of his last night. But this morning that New York Times OPINION piece got them all rattled. Make me worry much like Killgore expressed himself the other day about what could happen if Romney wins. We'll get that crap from the left all over again. And I'm on the left.

317 Gus  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 9:52:34am

re: #314 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

Blame them? No, but they are guilty of negligence.

I thought people were innocent until proven guilty?

318 Lidane  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 9:53:04am

re: #289 Gus

This fucking idiot.

[Embedded content]

That's not just an image of a battered woman. He might as well have tattooed the police photos of a battered Rihanna on his body.

What an asshole. I'd say what I think of him, but he's not worth the extra energy. Fuck him sideways with a 2x4, no kiss, and no lube. And fuck anyone who defends him for that.

319 Gus  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 9:53:23am

re: #312 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

More documents show that admin knew of imminent attack

They knew but that leaves a lot of open ended questions. Yes, they could have known but didn't have the alleged super powers that government has.

320 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 9:54:14am

re: #317 Gus

Warnings were ignored, it's pretty clear. Like I said, I don't think they allowed it to happen like truthers say. I do think they are guilty of gross negligence and incompetence.

321 Gus  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 9:54:15am

Bush/Cheney/911 Creationism

//

322 Lidane  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 9:54:17am
323 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 9:54:26am

re: #317 Gus

I thought people were innocent until proven guilty?

Proof of guilt is not the same as actual moral guilt. Just ask Randall Dale Adams.

324 lawhawk  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 9:54:50am

Do I need to watch video from that horrific day? No. I witnessed it live and in person. I was among those who had to leave Manhattan by walking over the Manhattan Bridge because transit was down and there was no vehicular traffic going anywhere near Lower Manhattan other than rescue vehicles.

Do I need to see video of jumpers or the towers collapsing again? I saw the video repeatedly and walked through the smoke and dealt with the smoldering smells at Ground Zero like so many others did after the attacks.

But the video isn't just for my eyes. It's for those who didn't witness the events of the day first hand, were too young to know/understand what was going on, and have only known of 9/11 via what the news/history/Internet reported about the attacks.

That there are those who still don't get that is troubling.

It's all the more reason why the 9/11 museum needs to be opened asap and that every effort should be made to make it free to anyone who visits. This is history that shouldn't come with an admission fee.

325 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 9:55:20am

re: #319 Gus

They knew but that leaves a lot of open ended questions. Yes, they could have known but didn't have the alleged super powers that government has.

They should have known. There are only 5 or 6 flights a day. They could have figured it out which ones were the targets.
/do I really need this tag?

326 Gus  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 9:55:22am

re: #320 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

Warnings were ignored, it's pretty clear. Like I said, I don't think they allowed it to happen like truthers say. I do think they are guilty of gross negligence and incompetence.

Bush's fault.

327 Someone Please Beam Me Up!  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 9:55:52am

re: #312 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

More documents show that admin knew of imminent attack

I don't deny that the Bush administration did much less than they should have on this front, but still, knowing that "an attack is imminent" isn't much help. Did they have any idea where in the world it was going to happen?

328 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 9:55:54am

Watching a clip from Morning Joe, George Pataki just used 9/11 to escape from an argument he was losing...fucking tool.

329 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 9:56:38am

re: #327 Someone Please Beam Me Up!

Terrorists determined to strike in the U.S. seems pretty clear on the "where" to me.

330 blueraven  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 9:57:45am

re: #316 Gus

Fuck that. I've been seeing that all morning. Dick Cheney didn't help with that stupid comment of his last night. But this morning that New York Times OPINION piece got them all rattled. Make me worry much like Killgore expressed himself the other day about what could happen if Romney wins. We'll get that crap from the left all over again. And I'm on the left.

What did Cheney say?

331 Someone Please Beam Me Up!  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 9:58:06am

re: #329 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

Terrorists determined to strike in the U.S. seems pretty clear on the "where" to me.

It's a big country. And they could have had or prepared a backup if the first try failed.

332 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 9:58:27am

re: #326 Gus

It was a failure of the admin, not just bush. We're going to have to agree to disagree on this but there's plenty of evidence that the admin was incompetent at worst and Negligent at best.

333 Gus  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 9:58:51am

Bush knew and Clinton had Osama bin Laden in the cross hairs but didn't fire because OBL was on a camping trip with an Arab prince and they didn't want to hamper and arms deal that was in the works at the time between the USA and Saudi Arabia.

334 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 9:59:15am

re: #327 Someone Please Beam Me Up!

I don't deny that the Bush administration did much less than they should have on this front, but still, knowing that "an attack is imminent" isn't much help. Did they have any idea where in the world it was going to happen?

Tangent rant:

I stopped watching "24" after the episode, "A Nuke is Hidden Somewhere in L.A.!" THE NUKE GOES OFF. Yet the series continued for however many miserable episodes NEVER MENTIONING THE NUKE AGAIN.

Nuking LA should replace the expression "Jumping the Shark"

335 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 9:59:34am

re: #333 Gus

Srry but I will not play MBF on this.

336 Gus  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 9:59:50am

re: #330 blueraven

What did Cheney say?

337 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 10:00:35am

re: #330 blueraven

Cheney tried to say Obama never attends his own Intel briefings and therefore deserves no credit for killing bin laden.

338 Gus  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 10:00:45am

re: #335 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

Srry but I will not play MBF on this.

Of course not.

339 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 10:01:17am

re: #333 Gus

Bush knew and Clinton had Osama bin Laden in the cross hairs but didn't fire because OBL was on a camping trip with an Arab prince and they didn't want to hamper and arms deal that was in the works at the time between the USA and Saudi Arabia.

While all the planes were grounded all over the U.S. they somehow found a way to give rides home for the Saudi royals!1!ty

340 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 10:02:05am

re: #337 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

Cheney tried to say Obama never attends his own Intel briefings and therefore deserves no credit for killing bin laden.

He was Photoshopped into that picture! Just like every picture of Obama ever taken is a Photoshop!1!ty

341 Eventual Carrion  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 10:02:50am

re: #337 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

Cheney tried to say Obama never attends his own Intel briefings and therefore deserves no credit for killing bin laden.

Cheney attended his during his time in office, but was fast asleep within 5 minutes of sitting at the table.

342 blueraven  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 10:04:37am

re: #336 Gus

[Embedded content]

About what one would expect from this low class asshole

343 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 10:04:47am

re: #339 Learned Mother of Zion

And the Bin Laden's living in Orlando.
/

344 Gus  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 10:05:35am

Stop the world I want to get off.

//

345 dragonfire1981  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 10:06:01am

I've told my "where was I" on 9/11 story many times so I thought I'd do something different this year. I want to recount some memories of that day that are separate from the period of the attacks (8:30-11:00 am EST or so).

I remember the following about 9/11/01

- I remember the chaos after the attacks. No one knew what was going on. Planes grounded across North America, all kinds of wild news reports flying around. Were there other planes? Other terrorists? And if there were, where were they going?

- I remember going to the downtown core of my hometown (Ottawa, Canada) and finding it practically deserted. They had it shut down. No vehicle traffic at ALL. The only way to get in was to walk across the bridge from the Quebec side. The streets were barren. No cars, no people. A very odd sight for what is usually a busy lunch hour for the thousands of people who work in the private and government offices around the area.

- I remember feeling numb, almost physically sick by the end of day having watched the 9/11 coverage non-stop. It's the only time I ever remember practically EVERY SINGLE CHANNEL on TV was doing wall to wall coverage on the same event. You couldn't escape it. I ended up watching a movie to try and distract myself.

- I remember going outside around 6:30 PM or so and playing some street hockey, all the while thinking about the people in NYC and Washington, still in relative disbelief at what I had witnessed earlier.

- I remember going to the U.S. embassy downtown that night and seeing the sea of people there and the wall of tributes in front of the building. This photo doesn't do it justice, the flowers and memorials covered twice as big an area as you can see in the picture. I remember how peaceful it was there. There were candles flickering, people saying quiet prayers, some people crying, but a lot of us just stood their silently both out of respect and because we were so shocked at what happened.

- Perhaps most of all, I remember the tremendous wave of national unity that came over America in the days after the attacks. Suddenly racial and ethnic lines didn't matter. For awhile, definitions such as white, black, hispanic, asian, european. Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist and Atheist were replaced by a single word: American.

The people of the United States had been attacked as many but afterwards stood as one and vowed to rebuild and restore the nation as one. It was a remarkable time of TRUE patriotism.

346 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 10:06:18am

re: #343 Cannadian Club Akbar

And the Bin Laden's living in Orlando.
/

Wow!! Bipartisan kookyness!!! Notice the site, then notice the source!!
[Link: www.democraticunderground.com...]

347 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 10:06:19am

re: #343 Cannadian Club Akbar

And the Bin Laden's living in Orlando.
/

With Elvis!
//

348 makeitstop  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 10:07:14am

Cheney. What an asshole.

349 b_sharp  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 10:10:02am

re: #302 NJDhockeyfan

[Embedded content]

A video tribute to the victims of 9-11 is a Republican snuff film?

Derp.

It looked like a piece of political propaganda to me.

There are many ways to remember those who died that day, from recognizing the sacrifices of the police and firefighters as they tried to save as many people as they could, to the bravery shown by the victims in flight UA #93. The footage shown at the beginning of this video was there to evoke feelings of anger and fear as a lead up to the mention of the election of a president who knows how to deal with 'the bad guys'.

What would you call a presentation that used death as an emotional tool for political gain?

350 sffilk  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 10:10:26am

Since people will be asking "Where were you" today, I had gone into work as I always had. I always got to the office by 8:30 so that I could leave by 5. I was working when one of the other people in the office came in and told me that the World Trade Center had been hit by a plane. I thought it was some kind of joke because I remember the basic rules of flight and knew that air traffic rules over New York City wouldn't allow for something like that to happen. I went back to work. A little later I decided to check the internet and found that the WTC had indeed been attacked. I didn't think much of it, and continued to work. About 11 AM, one of the partners came out and told me that because of the fact that we were working in the tallest building in the area, we were at risk for the same kind of attack, so I was to go home. I did, and caught some of the coverage on TV.

351 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 10:15:06am

Not too shabby for 8 minutes of getting made fun of by some 11-year-olds.

352 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 10:20:06am

I had just woke up when the first plane hit. I was having a cup of coffee and a cigarette while checking email when my gf at the time told me to look at the tv. At first I thought it was a horrible accident, that the pilot of the plane fucked up or there was some mechanical issue. Then the second plane hit. The rest of the day was a blur. I remember going to work, then going home and getting a tv for my office so everyone could watch news.

We were all let out early and everyone walking around the office was sheet white the whole day. All I could think of was getting off a train from Jersey that let off at the world trade center for New years eve in 96/97 with a couple of buddies from boot camp. I remember the little church with the cemetery in the yard that looked so out of place among the tall buildings. It was this church:

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

amazingly it survived. I remember a picture of it afterwards with debris and dust all around but the church was mostly in tact. As far as emotions? I was pissed more than anything else. I couldn't believe that it had happened. I was and am a native New Yorker (lived in upstate) and the NYC skyline always had included the WTC. It was so surreal.

353 b_sharp  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 10:20:33am

re: #351 Learned Mother of Zion

Not too shabby for 8 minutes of getting made fun of by some 11-year-olds.

[Embedded content]

Now, now, let's not get snippy. That woman didn't ask for the money or the abuse.

354 lawhawk  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 10:24:51am

re: #352 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

The church is across from my office. It's St. Paul's Chapel. The chapel was used by relief and recovery workers in the aftermath of the attacks as a place for solace and comfort by the Red Cross and other relief agencies.

It is also on the National Historic Register and is the oldest church in NYC. George Washington prayed there before his first inauguration at Federal Hall a few blocks away across from Wall Street.

355 makeitstop  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 10:26:05am

re: #352 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

I remember the little church with the cemetery in the yard that looked so out of place among the tall buildings. It was this church:

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

I did contract work for a real estate company in the building right behind that church. A friend of mine was a full-time IT guy at that company, and I didn't hear from him for three days after the attacks. It turned out he just turned off his cell and went to stay in Brooklyn with friends so he could walk to work.

I was deathly afraid that I'd lost him.

356 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 10:27:07am

re: #354 lawhawk

I remember that church because I loved the architecture of it, very gothic in nature. I remember reading that it was the oldest church in NYC. Like I said, glad it survived.

357 Eventual Carrion  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 10:33:13am

I had gotten to work, checked job runs from the previous night to see what might be my first fire to piss on that morning. Went and got a cuppa and went outside to have a smoke. I was standing there looking at the trees up the hill (office was on a pretty steep hill). Over the hill comes a large commercial passenger plane flying very low, maybe 1500 feet. That just doesn't happen. I went inside and mentioned it to a co-worker who thought that was strange also. Within 10 minutes of this exchange we started hearing about what was going on. Our whole data center went into the training room and turned on the TV to see what everyone else was seeing.

358 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 10:38:20am

Ah. God bless The Onion for nailing it to the wall once again.

[Link: www.theonion.com...]

359 ShaunP  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 10:52:03am

I was on my way to my first class of the day (marketing something or other), listening to Howard Stern on the drive there. He broke the regular programming to mention something about a plane hitting one of the towers, but at that point, information was so spotty, it wasn't clear what really had happened. From the tone, it almost sounded as if a corporate jet or something had mechanical issues and hit the building.

Then they mentioned they were getting reports of a second plane that hit the other tower. At that point, I thought they were misreporting. Information was too spotty, so I proceeded as usual.

Walked past the food court and everyone was watching the news, smoke coming from the towers. My first thought was "wow, that's worse that I thought it was"; definitely didn't look like a small flight hit and the second tower was definitely hit. But still wasn't clear how bad the situation was.

Went to class a little shell shocked, but not thinking the worst. Once class was done, I came out and by then the south tower had collapsed. This is where things get a little fuzzy, so the order of these things happening isn't really clear:

- Called my boss, who's wife worked in the towers and who's son would have been downstairs in the daycare center on the first floor. Luckily, they hadn't gone to work.
- Found out my friend Jim was in the towers and no one had heard from him. Found out later that he had died.
- Another friend was lost in downtown somewhere, supposedly on a job interview (he wound up being OK).
- Rest of my classes for the day were canceled
- North Tower falls
- Falling towers played on loop ad-nauseum...

After that, the rest of the day was a blur. Made it home at some point, can't really remember what I did for the rest of the day.

The next weekend, me and a group of friends got together to collect supplies & food for the rescue workers. I remember wanting to help desperately but the actual impact wound up being so infinitesimally minor. Even that act of good-will felt defeating...

Wound up going to Pier A Park in Hoboken and watching the rubble smoking for hours. It was days later and I remember thinking how odd it was that it was still smoking (little did I know it would smoke for months after).

I never felt so close to those around me. Even complete strangers. There was a real sense of community. That feeling that everyone around was so broken, but we were all toughing it out together was palpable. It took a long time for that to fade...

Fast forward to now; it truly disgusts me that people use this as a wedge to divide people. Judging the genuineness of people's thoughts or quibbling over whether god had a mention. It's a farce. And a shame.

360 sffilk  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 12:40:38pm

One item I forgot to mention: I have a cousin who was working as an aribtrager (is that a word?) in the WTC. He lived (and I think he still does) in New City, New York, which is north of the five boroughs. He would take the train down from New City to the plaza there and go to work in one of the buildings. Well, when he got down there that morning, he saw what was happening, returned to the train and headed back home. When I got home from work I called his mother (my aunt), as I wanted to be sure everything was OK. She told me never to ask about what happened. I don't understand it, but I've honored her wishes all these years.

361 Jefiner  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 6:58:41pm

For me, at least, the feelings I had on 9/11 haven't dulled. Shock, horror, rage, determination.

I don't read here much anymore, but LGF was an oasis of sanity in a crazy world at that time. Thank you, Charles, for providing that outlet.

Tailwinds--


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